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Conservatives Protest Expanded Hate Crimes Bill

October 30, 2009 by  

Conservatives protest expanded hate crimes billThe Senate voted 68-29 last week to expand the existing federal anti-hate crimes measure to include acts committed due to the victim’s gender and sexual identity.

The legislation was named after two victims of bias crime, Matthew Shepard and James Byrd Jr., who were killed in Wyoming and Texas, respectively, in 1998.

Judy Shepard, Matthew’s mother and president of the foundation set up in his name, praised the move saying it will send a message to Americans that "their government will protect them from violence, and provide appropriate justice for victims and their families."

And Joe Solmonese of the Human Rights Campaign called it "our nation’s first major piece of civil rights legislation for lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender people."

However, the vote came under fire from many conservatives who have worried it could be used to limit freedom of speech of those whose religious or other beliefs do not agree with homosexuality.

In fact, Family Research Council president Tony Perkins said that the bill is "part of a radical social agenda that could ultimately silence Christians and use the force of government to marginalize anyone whose faith is at odds with homosexuality."

With the new provision, lawmakers expanded the scope of federal hate crimes, which previously only included race, color, religion and national origin. To become law, the bill must now be signed by President Obama who pledged to do so.
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  • Barry

    Well we see the (Word Removed) and lesbians getting their way again and forcing their rights upon others.

    It is clear in Romans what God thinks of (Word Removed) and we know where they will end up and it is called hell.

    So enjoy your short stay here because eternity in hell is a long long time baby.

    • kathleen

      Wow, Barry! Such a well thought out comment! It’s interesting that you’re trying to impress us with how religious you are, and still you use such foul language that your words are edited out. If I were ever considering converting to your religion, reading your comment would be reason enough to change my mind. Carry it on!

  • johah2

    Jesus says that shortly before he returns, there will be a Famine, Not of food, but of Hearing of the word of God.

    This precludes the Falling away from the Faith that Jesus also spoke about.

    Why would so many fall away from the faith? Because they felt they had been LEFT BEHIND, when they see the Tribulation start to happen around them. They will feel they have been Abandoned by God, and will loose their faith.

    Be of Good Cheer when you see these things happen, because they must happen. Keep your faith till the end, and You Will be Saved.

    • FREDERIC

      YOUR RIGHT JOHAH2 ITS A SICK SICK WORLD AND THIS NATION THAT GOD HAD A VALE OVER FOR WE USED TO LET THE WORLD KNOW THAT WE LOVE GOD ALMIGHTY AND JESUS THE CHRIST NOW PEOPLE MOCK GOD IN THIS NATION HOW SAD EVEN OUR SO CALLED LEADERS BUT THAT IS COMMING TO A END VERY SOON THANK GOD VERY SOON EVERY KNEE WILL BEND AND MOUTH CONFESS TO HIM IT CANT COME SOON ENOUGH MY FRIEND GOD BLESS THE SAVED REGARDS FREDERIC

  • Carri

    This was tacted on to a defense bill. It’s the only way they could ram it through as it was tried before and was scuttled. Until this is rescended by the Conservative President we will elect in 2012, this is now the law of the land. I can see the day that only Bibles that are gender neutral and has the scriptures removed that warn against homosexuality will be allowed. Hold on to your seats people, the ride has just begun.

  • Jon

    Please, for God’s sake, it is time for “christians” to stop trying to force their beliefs on the rest of us. This legislation is truly good news and it is only the beginning. You can call me anything you want, but don’t call me N___R, S____C, F____T, or anything else which is a term of hatred. Yes, I know that christianity is a religion based in fear, but don’t try to make me one of you by trying to make me afraid of what will happen to me if I don’t become one of you. That is really twisted thinking. If your God is one of Love, then stop trying to fill the rest of us with fear of what God will do to us if we don’t become just like you. God forbid! I do pray the fear that lives in your hearts will change to love and that some day you will accept and appreciate the rest of God’s creations. God loves you, too, and YOU are the reason we need this legislation.

    • jbird

      Interesting that you don’t want to be a Christian yet call on God to help you. “for God’s sake.” and “God forbid!” BTW: I haven’t seen a case of anyone trying to “force” beliefs on you. No swords used to lop off heads and no threats at gunpoint, tactics used by adherants of that “religion of peace.”

      • Jon

        People with other than christian beliefs do believe in God. It should not surprise you that others believe in God. Please, understand what I am saying. I am not saying you are using swords or guns to force me to believe the way you do. Fear is an effective weapon christians use not only to gain adherants to your faith, but also a weapon which is used to keep all of your members in line. Examine your faith. You say your God is a God of love, but at the same time you tell of how God has killed, murdered, destroyed people, and at some point in the future will relegate the “unbelievers” to a place called Hell. So you say, “believe and be saved or our all powerful, all knowing, all loving, but also vengeful God will send you to Hell. That is hard to accept. I will not allow that kind of fear to drive me to join anything.

        • Richard Pawley

          Jesus (who Christians are supposed to be following) said “God is Love!” He also said that He judged no one. His purpose in coming to earth and living the life of a human being was to show what God was like. Most believed God was filled with wraith, just waiting to capture a sinner and punish him. I stopped calling myself a Christian because so many have only a head belief in God, not a heart belief. GOD IS LOVE! If you want to know what God is like read the gospels, find out what Jesus actually said, not what someone says he said. You can’t surprise God. He knows what you are going to do before you do it. He only “hates” if you will, that which will harm his beloved creation, us! People may call themselves Christians, many of the cults do, and there are even cults of one person, but Jesus himself said, “You will know them by their actions” If these people are really followers of Jesus they should be exhibiting a joy, a radiance, a “something” that will make you at least want to find out what it is. Are people being changed in their churches? Are drugs addicts kicking the habit and alcoholics giving up the bottle? Are cancers being healed? If these things are never happening then it is logical to assume that is not a church of people who truly love God or know Jesus. If having a relationship with Jesus doesn’t make one a better person than it is likely to be just a head trip. Jesus said that he would give his followers, those who truly believed in God and loved him, power. Do you see power in the lives of those who have been changed by Jesus? How can you love someone if you don’t know them? Jesus’ mission was to come to show us who God is, what he is like, what the creator of all that is, yes, even the distant civilizations in the far reaches of our own galaxy, is like. (I pointed out what He told me about it in the epilogue of my autobiography). God is awesome. He does not hate. The devil is the one who hates. He is the one who wants it his way and no other. He, like some of his followers on earth, wants to be God. Sorry! That job is taken. The God of the Bible said, “Come, let us reason together!” However, Jesus also said that he would rather you were for him or against him, “but being lukewarm, I spit you out of my mouth”. Hell is a real place and there may be two of them, but the Bible says there are three heavens (Saul mentions how he was taken up to the ‘third’ heaven, and this persecutor and hater of Christians (like the ACLU) became Paul of the Bible. The point is if there a ‘third heaven’ then there has to be a first and second. Don’t reject Jesus because of some of his followers. Everyone should know you can’t force love. There are many false gods in the world today and it is growing worse. My latest book is mostly about the economy and the end of things as we know them. It has spiritual overtones but it is not for all. Some, unfortunately, can only learn harsh lessons. Life here on earth can get better for you but in a few years all will know it is not going to get better for the world, not for a very long time. God is love! Check out the One who said that, by reading the Gospels and then ACTS right past them. ACTS tells what being a Christian is supposed to be like. So many miss that. The loss is theirs.

          • Richard Pawley

            I wrote “wraith” when I meant “wrath” God is not filled with “wrath”. The evil one is the one who is filled with wrath. Another thing that Jesus said was that the end-of-days would be a time when it was like it was in Sodom and Gomorrah, when evil people who cared only for themselves were the dominant force. As far as how the world would end (or at least life on it) Jesus said there would be countless asteroids or ‘stars’ from heaven (they did not distinguish between asteroids, comets, and meteorites back then but called them all falling stars) would crash to earth “like figs from a fig tree during a storm.” The coming inflation (two to three hundred percent) caused by all the Congressional spending is going to change many things. We can’t stop that now but we can get rid of the Congress who has done this to us. Read the comment by SUV DRIVER at the end.

        • Judy

          A loving God will not send you to hell. God will however honor your choice.

        • American Citizen

          In Biblical times, people saw tragic events as God’s displeasure and punishment for sin. They knew nothing of the laws of nature. It took Jesus to show us we alone are responsible for what happens to us. If we build in areas where there are earthquakes, floods, mud slides, etc., that is not God’s doing.

          However, in times of trouble, He is there waiting to help if we call on Him. Those who do not believe in Him know nothing of the power of prayer. There are many witnesses to His miracles.

          As for hate crimes, every crime is a hate crime. There is a motive for every crime and it’s surely not one of love.

          • DaveH

            Good point Citizen. I believe that it is just another justification by our leaders to grow the Federal Government ever larger.

          • DaveH

            Speaking of hate crimes, I believe only evil people would force their will on others whether acting alone or through the power of Big Government.

          • eyeswideopen

            Dave, you mean like forcing us to only have one choice of an insurance company, when it is a matter of life and death? Yes, sir, those healthcare insurance companies are definately forcing their rates and plans on us. If you are unlucky enough to live in a state with only one health care provider, that would qualify as Force. And you still want them to be able to hold us hostage, amazing Dave, what happened to your force arguement? Corporate monopolies are Force.

          • ccg

            Eyes, sure, you would rather a government beurocrat be able to do it for us.This is what is being proposed.

          • DaveH

            More nonsense from Eyes.

      • Thurman Marcum

        jbird,

        Have you read the koran? Jesus Christ is one of their prophets.Christianity has also had a blood stain history.Don’t throw stones.

        • libertytrain

          Thurman – good point – I can agree with you now and then.

          • eyeswideopen

            liberty, I left you more info on my beliefs about Ayn on the Nuke site.

        • s c

          So quick to judge, Thurman. Why blame God for things that HUMANS do in His name? Can you name even ONE religious leader who is not part of an apostate church? We are not mere players on a stage. We are part of an old battle between good and evil.
          Religion suffers from the same problems found in politics, education, business, economics, law, medicine, and any other field you care to name. True human leadership is all but non-existent (ref. Washington and all world capitals). God is NEVER the root cause of ANY problem. ALL problems are due to HUMANS and our many excuses for not living up to our potential.
          Lest I forget (we MUST be fair), if you’re in blaming mood, don’t forget about the source of all evil in this world. If you think Washington is immune from this source, you are utterly CLUELESS. May you someday have half the wisdom you want us to believe you have. And, may our so-called ‘leaders’
          soon be truly worthy of their positions. God knows, they have done very little for the past 100 years to prove they are where they belong.

          • Thurman Marcum

            S.c

            There are not one recorded fact,these were copied,you got one when Isis ask her son, Horus the Egyptian god where have you been?He was gone three days,he said “you know I am doing my father’s work.”Christ said the same thing. There are numerous repeats in the bible.Some of these Gospels were were written four-hundred after the alleged events.Christ is a sun myth.You got the birth of Jesus,that was a copy,Herod the great died four years before his birth and couldn’t posibly gave orders to kill the child.The bible is scientificly false.It got the sun goes around the earth.You remember the battle of Jericho when Joshua command the sun to stop,he had to finshed the battle.This hero was a monster who slaughtered all the inhabitants,this included innocent children,only the whore was spared.The universe was created in seven days,impossible.Some christians estimated the universe to be six thousand years old,impossible.The most distanced objects, quasars are fifteen to twenty billion light years away.Their light reflection takes fifteen to twenty billion years to reach earth.And as being humane,it condones slavery and torture.I am sorry for the mispelling of words in the previous statement,I was in a hurry,I had to take my wife to work.I didn’t have time to check my spellings.Check out what I am saying,you can agree or disagree. .There are lot scholarly works out there that proves the bible is a big hoax.

          • Thurman Marcum

            s.c

            There is also a First Church of Mithras,it is based in California.Mithras was a Persian Savior.

        • American Citizen

          Religions are practiced by human beings. We are all born with the same tendencies to sin. That’s why you can find people who do not abide by the religious beliefs they profess. Satan is hard at work trying to bring souls to his side. God lets it up to us to choose who we will follow.

    • Thurman Marcum

      Jon,

      Have you read Decptions and Myths of The Bible? Christianity is based on Mithrasism,the Persia god of light, sun and other myths.You can find it on the internet.The Christian myth or the Christ Myth was borrowed from ancient Egtpt,ancient India,Rome, ancient Greece,Perisa, Babylon,China and other religious myths.Even the cricifixion was borrowed.It is too numerous to put all the imformation down about christianity.Check it out.

      • Al Terpstra

        It’s on the internet, so it has to be true….Right…. Come on Thurman, just say you don’t believe. The fact that there are those similarities only describes the similarities in cultures, it does not make the Christian faith untrue. Additionally, the Bible, specifically the New Testament, is loaded with eyewitness testimony, mostly written within one generation of the events, and transcripts are abundant. Again, you are free to refuse or receive the free gift of salvation, through Jesus Christ.

        • Jon

          There you go again. “Salvation” – it is fear based. Saved or NOT saved, that is the question. … But really people, this is about hate crimes not christianity. You may believe whatever you want. At the end of the day, hate is wrong – I think we can agree on that.

          • Fed Up Gal

            Here’s my thought on this. There is a line to be drawn regarding “Hate Crimes”. The line is this: If you committ a violent crime, you should be punished to the fullest extent of the law…PERIOD!

            I don’t quite understand why anyone would think committing a violent crime against a particular gender (substitute race, religion, politics…whatever) would warrant a greater or lesser punishment than that of another particular group.

            I believe God is a loving God, but I also believe he can seem (to some) to be vengeful….through some of life’s lessons he allows us to suffer through. We must however….regardless of our religious faith, views,etc……..no longer treat one group as more or less valued in society. This means no particular group should be subjected to violent criminal acts….and by the same token…no one should receive a greater or lesser degree of punishment for committing a violent act against a particular group.

            Punishment for committing a violent criminal act, should be swift and should be EQUAL!

          • American Citizen

            Salvation is not fear based, it is a reality. Jesus opened the gates of Heaven for us. It’s up to each of us to either accept or reject our salvation. Many do not accept it because they would have to change the way they live. That’s what they are afraid of.

          • ccg

            Jon
            Someone must have burned you badly for you to have so much fear. Christianity is not based on fear, but whatever you have certainly is, as that is all you talk about.

        • Thurman Marcum

          Terpstra,

          These are historical facts,early Christians were notorious forgers.Te crcifixion was a copy,all mythical creaters died a violent death.The gospels are one and many.The four gospels contradict each other,for instance Judas died twice.They estamated there at least seventy-two gospels.The Catholic Church pick four which we know today.

          • Thurman Marcum

            Tep,

            I mispell estimated and creators.

          • ccg

            Thurman,
            No, Christians are not the forgers Satan is a great imitator. That is his job to imitate God and get people confused, which goes to show Satan did it well as you are very confused about it all.

        • Thurman Marcum

          Terpstra,

          Similarities? Well these so called similarties took place long before Christianity and Judasism.Judasism became a religion about 450 B.C.The religion Mithraism; 700 B.C.It is identical to christianity.Judgement day,the good, everlasting life and the wicked doomed to eternity.Incest,it is in the bible also,Lot and his daughters.You also got Abraham’s wife, Sarah was his half sister.All Mythical creators had wives that were their sisters,even the crucifixion was identical.The ancient saviors was put to death the same way as Jesus Christ.They were suspended between two thieves.Now how do you explain that?

        • Thurman Marcum

          Al,

          I forgot to tell you, this imformation can be found in public libraries,your internet is a lot faster. Check both of them out.

          Thurman

      • http://yahoo.com merrie

        Jon,
        with writing,there is but one Judge,One true Living God,creator of all. each person has to walk his own walk through life. No one can walk it for you,as I have to walk mine. Each human has a Mind, or brain to think.each person was created with two eye’s,to see. two ear’s to hear.but one inter-eye to see to see beyond what this world want you to see. human mind is a open battle field for good and evil.it’s called the spiritual battle.Yes,God is a LOVEING GOD.He came to Earth in the flesh of Jesus Christ,died on the cross for he loved the people so much,he paid the price for our sin’s that we alone commented.Jesus would not anyone be lost to the truth,and be saved from Saton,whom is the fallen Angle. he wanted all power.it’s called GREED.But there is no higher Power than Jehovia God. people write a lot of book’s. since the beganning of time,the HOLY WORD of GOD has been tried to do away with.or tried to be proven false, or rewritten(revised).the King James Verson(Autherised)has stood the test of time.did you know that If people lived by the TEN COMMANDMENT,what a peaceable world this would be? Know for sure, we are liveing in the time as when the ark was built,and there was a Flood that destroyed all who Laught at Noah,except Noah Family,who Believed and got on the ARK? It has been Proven that what the HOLY WORD say is TRUE. As for my self,my trust is in Jesus Christ,He is my Savior,My friend.He has never forsaken me,when I was in the Valley,He feed Me. when I saw no way to pay my Bill’s,Jesus made a way.I walk, talk to Jesus.I give Him alone for his blessing Thank’s and praise.I am a sinner,saved through faith in his promise.that is my only Hope.I am but a pilgrem in this world,on the road of life home,when I get to the end of the road,I am going home and be judge by Jesus Christ.I have wrote the truth.my hand’s are clean.now you have to make up your own mind what to believe.may the holy Spirit touch your mind and heart. for I Judge NO ONE. that is for Jesus Christ to do. Pilgrem:

    • ccg

      Jon,
      It is not the Christians who spout or preach hate. We do not hate anyone,but we do not agree nor condone the actions. The ones who truly do not know the Word of God, nor know God Himself are the ones who put words in our mouths or take wrong actions.
      There is no fear when you trust God. However, no one is forcing you or will ever force you to love or serve God. He Himself gave you a free will. It’s your ship, you sail it.

    • http://naver Brady

      It seems that once again a looney liberal like Jon has put his foot in his mouth. How? Because he doesn’t know what is going on. First of all, Christianity is based on love, respecting each other, forgiveness, doing God’s will, etc., where is the fear factor? Secondly, not only is this lifestyle immoral and unethical, but it helps to rot away at the moral fabric in our country. Third, things like this have also helped, along with other things, bring down some of the most powerful nations in history. The Roman Empire is a good example of this. Augustus Caesar tried to defend the traditional family and many ignorant fools at that time, we call them liberals these days, didn’t want to go with traditions. They didn’t want to give up their sex partners, whores, and who knows what, just to stay with their wife or husband. It became so bad that Augustus lost his life trying to do what was right and keep his people from backsliding into an immoral chaotic nation. After his death, Rome slowly began to decay from the inside and became so weak that it split into two countries. The Western Rome was conquered by many godless barbarians, while the East Roman Empire was able to survive till the 1400′s. It changed its name to the Byzantine Empire. It survived longer by being more moral and going by the Christian ways. Fourth, we are not trying to tell you what to do. I know what an order sounds like, I have 20 years in the army, and that’s not what they are trying to do. Fifth, just remember 2 cities from history and this clear everything up for you:

      1. Sodom (Where we get the word sodomy from.)
      2. Gomorrah (Sorry if I misspelled it)

      They had many sexual perversions also and look what happened.

      If this doesn’t convince you, at least a little bit, remember what James Madison said:

      “If it is illegal, immoral, or unethical, no American shall have the right to do these things under this U. S. Constitution.”

      • Thurman Marcum

        Brady,

        Why don’t you try the dark ages.When Chistanity, was established in Rome as the official religion,that is when the horror began,it lasted sixteen hundred years. There were the infamous witch trials,the Spanish Inquisition, war on science and learning.Even mildly guestion the church’s wisdom can be fatal.A frightful example of that was the Priest-philosopher Bruno.He said there may be other people in different worlds,he was greatly influnced by Copernicas,by the way that kind of new thinking was not tolerated,he was burnt at the stake for heresy.The Christain Captain John Hawkins was a slave dealer.If a slave was sick,He solved the problem,he threw them overboard for the sharks to devour.The monkey trial of 1920s,where a young teacher was teaching evolution,was sent to jail.Brady, that is not love.That is imposing beliefs on others.And the witch burning mentality still exist to this day,only in different forms.

        • DaveH

          Thurman,
          When people get together in large groups, there is bound to be trouble. For various psychological reasons, people seem to have a need to mold everyone else into their way of thinking. Imagine how nice it would be if nobody could force their way on anyone else.

          • DaveH

            If the government only existed to protect us from the force of others, not to be the ‘forcer’.

          • eyeswideopen

            Would be nice, if government protected us from the force of the Corporate fat cats, who are controlling healthinsurance, gas prices, electric prices. Gee, it seems that the gas, utilities, insurance companies all have a monopoly on the American public.

  • CC

    I think this legislation is ridiculous…a crime is a crime whether vandalism, bodily harm to another regardless of race, gender, sexual orientation, etc. White women are raped all the time, thugs beat and kill for money, gang initiations or whatever. A crime is a crime and to give gays, lesbians, transvestites special attention at a Federal level is just more money wasted. If “anyone” is beaten, raped, tormented…it should be treated by local authorities period. I don’t agree with your lifestyle but I don’t wish you any harm. I am a Christian and it’s not my place to judge but yet many judgements are being hurled my way too. Some don’t like that I wear a cross but I don’t like the dead skull bones…my point…we’re all different and subject to disagreements but we need to respect each others differences…It’s OK to disagree as long as violent crimes are not committed against one another…that is not our place…as a non-denominational Christian, I don’t consider myself Catholic or Mormon or agree with their doctrines…Doesn’t mean I’m going to vandalize their churches or beat-up anyone of that faith…we all choose our path in life but this law punishes “thought” for disagreeing with a different lifestyle and that is wrong…we should have that freedom of choice and speech to agree or disagree and those that act out violently against anyone should be punished accordingly but not for just having an opinion for or against. White nerdy guys get beat up and bullied all the time…this law just brings more disgruntlement and hatred for those that cry the loudest! Another expansion of Government and more waste of tax payers money!!!

    • Jon

      You keep proving why this legislation is necessary. “A crime is a crime….” I agree with you, but there are crimes which are committed out of hatred. In fact, some christians believe that Gay people should be killed. Our society will not stand for this. If you are beating me because I am black, you need to have a heavier punishment than someone who is beating me to get my money. As a society, we are finally saying that hatred is a crime. This is a good thing. The churches in my community have been burned and vandalized simply because they welcome people of the Gay community. You are free to have any opinion you want, but don’t voice that opinion as hatred and certainly don’t act on that hatred towards me or anyone else. That is wrong. You speak of some ‘lifestyle’. You have no idea what my lifestyle is. There are just as many lifestyles for Gay people as there are for hetero’s. One’s sexuality does not determine a specific lifestyle. You also mention, “a waste of tax payer’s money”. Maybe you also see it as a waste of money to have rules against bullies in schools so that your son or daughter doesn’t get beat just for being white and/or nerdy (white was your choice, not mine). Also, it is wrong for anyone to stand in front of a group of people and say that homosexuals or any other grouping of people should be put to death. It is O.K., however for you to believe and teach that homosexuals are going to hell. You are free to believe that and teach that type of fear mongering to your people. Just don’t teach hatred. That’s what this is all about.

      • libertytrain

        Jon – good points.

        • john

          You are fool

      • CC

        Hatred does come in many forms and I don’t wish death on anyone. The act of killing however is a crime while wishing someone dead is not. By the same example you give, my mother’s church was vandalized, glass shattered injuring some children with glass shards sitting by the window. It was from an Atheist group and had nothing to do with race or sexual orientation. The local authorities can handle it. If someone is equally beaten for being black or for their money, the crime is the beating…both of those beaten suffer, are in pain and probably hospitalized and if you’re saying the black gets preferential treatment to the old lady fighting for her life in the hospital…I have to disagree with you…you punish the crime not the thought…you simply can not control how someone thinks about one race, religion, culture or orientation. You can not force someone to accept what they don’t believe in. It’s forcing their free will to choose. I can not force an Atheist to believe in God. I can preach a sermon at him but it’s his choice to be what he is. Remember, Christian’s were stoned to death for their beliefs…was that right? No, the ACT of violence is wrong.

        • john

          Right on CC. a crime is a crime by any name. the real crime here is our government forcing these bills on us with out giving us the voice of our opions. you know this BO fool is a through back from the FDR,LBJ,& peanut farmers era. athrough back is like a fish that once caught the catcher realizes it is no good so it is thrown back.

          JB

        • Fed Up Gal in NM

          CC,

          Not sure how I missed your post (31 Oct), but now that I’ve read it….I could not agree more….all violent crime is an act of HATE (either hatred of the victim, self-hatred of the victimizer, or BOTH….and should be treated equally! Thanks for posting your thoughts.

          Fed Up Gal

      • eyeswideopen

        Couldn’t have stated that any better. Chrisitans are losing membership due to some of the points you have made. As a Christian, that makes me depressed and I wonder why we think fear is the way to Christ.

        • libertytrain

          eyes- we actually agree on some things.

          • ccg

            Eyes, I agree with you on this one. I don’t go to an organized church either for the same reason. This is a sad time that we have to admit that our churches are not teaching the truth. Some are just social gathering places.
            I am a student of the Word of God, studying the Old and New Testaments. A person that is a true Christian does not nor should not use fear in any way. I suppose some do, but Christianity is a way of life, it is a reality, not a religion.
            Hatred is evil. The Bible does teach that certain things are wrong, and we do need the freedom to be able to teach what the Bible says.

            Certain actions are despicable, theft, rape, a dope dealer, and we need to be able to state that these things are wrong. We should not need the gov’t. to tell us that hatred is wrong. Society should do that.
            So far the perpetrators of hate crimes have been punished by a court of law, as they should be, without this legislation.

        • Average Joe

          eyeswideopen says:,
          Hi Eyes!…I am one of those that have left the “organized” Church for that kind of thinking. Most churches today it seems are corporations now (businesses) and the bottom line for most of them is…profit. Leave your brains at the door, we will tell you what to think. I am sorry, but God gave me a brain to think with…not to be “brainwashed”. As George Carlin was fond of saying: “Why is it that God is all seeing, all knowing, Can do anything at all…..but he can’t seem to manage his money?…..Dig deep in those pockets, God needs your money…..I just want to know,…What is God doing with all of that money?”….I myself, will not step into a Corporate Church. God knows my heart, God knows my actions…and that is all that really matters.

          • eyeswideopen

            I no longer go to church, but am stronger in my faith than I have ever been. I just think it is a sad state of affairs when others see so readily how the church and many Christians are using fear to try and manipulate the masses. Most times those proclaiming to be Christians are in the same breath wanting to kill someone for some politican issue. Seems as though since the 80′s we have no tolerance for others who aren’t exactly like what the political party requires.

          • Average Joe

            eyeswideopen says:
            October 30, 2009 at 2:54 pm,

            I agree whole hearted…The “eyes” have it!

          • ccg

            Eyes,
            I think people go to church because they want to be taught the truth. They are seeking to know God and learn about Him. I don’t go because I am being fed the Real Meat of the Word through my studies.
            Most people are honest and good and are not trying to decieve anyone, they are just trying to teach what and how they have been taught. Some people believe we have to be afraid of God. Others know that when you love the Lord, to fear the Lord means to revere Him, honor Him and love Him. It is only when someone does not know the Lord is where the confusion comes in. The Bible says to fear Him who can destroy you, and it is talking about your soul. Those who do not want to know, or have blinders on, or who don’t care, we all hope you have a great life, enjoy it as much as possible. Jesus did not come to condemn the world and He didn’t send us to do it either. Neither did He send anyone to judge Christians either. God is our Judge.

        • s c

          Eyes, you and thurman look at religion the same way (via an uninformed consensus of convenience). What passes for Christianity is a sham. It’s no accident that God refers to people as sheep. Look at what we call leadership. Can you honestly take a hard look at our ‘leaders’ and claim that America is being protected and properly served? Yes, I mean BOTH major parties.
          When it comes to religious leadership, many religious ‘leaders’ are are no more religious than the personalities who currently take up space in congress and the white house.
          They are paid to go through the motions, and they do little or nothing to ‘earn’ their keep. They are not accountable. They lead lives that most Americans can only dream about. And how do we react to this lose-lose sitution? We keep them in office, and we let them disgrace the Founding Fathers.
          People who have no standards for their leaders also have no standards for themselves. You and thurman need to get together
          and sort out the difference between what you see and what you need to see.
          And, re-educate yourselves. If you thnk we have leadership in Washington (or in religion), I can sell you some beautiful real estate on the back side of the moon (cheap!).

          • eyeswideopen

            and why didn’t you include Average Joe, in the mix? I didn’t state anything about Christians being forgers etc. I didn’t even agree with Thurman, you just don’t like me, so you lumped me in with his beliefs. Seems to be a familiar action you take. You are the reason why Christians are getting a bad reputation. You distort and try to mix religious beliefs with politics. Since you don’t like my politics, you attack on the religious front. Haven’t you learned that our founding fathers didn’t want that to happen? Just because you belong to the right, doesn’t mean you aren’t a pseudo Christian.Your logic involving politics and having personal standards means, you have none, as some of the present politicians were put in office by you and your cohorts. Becare what you accuse people of, as you are standing in your own line of fire.

      • SUV Driver

        What if I got pulled out of my SUV and beaten by a hippie because I was using fossil fuels. I want a protected class as a SUV driver.

        Grow up already. If it’s so bad here in America, then MOVE OUT!!!!

        The liberal left are the true racist. They are breeding more racism. Last time I checked I never owned any slaves. I refuse to pay for someone else’s actions in the past. Get over it already and stop living in the past and worry about the future you sheeple.

      • ccg

        Jon, you have a problem. You try to blame it on CHRISTIANS, but your own hatred is showing.

      • Thurman Marcum

        Jon,

        I am sixty-six years old and Christianity was the phoney belief that brought slaves here, whites that couldn’t tell fact from fiction,called blacks children of Cain.Negroes had to suffer from this kind of stupidity. This is the kind of thinking that led to slavery and misery.The american indian is another example,we gave them the bible and told them to close their eyes and pray.When they open their eyes,the indians had the bible,we had their land.Religion no matter what it is,is a fraud.Whether it is Islam,Christianity, or Judaism,they all teach obedience to the word of God which amounts to intellectual slavery.They are all misognynist in nature.The Adam and Eve story,Samson and Delilah,John the Baptist story and Adam’s first wife Lilith.She was the evil female in Jewish and Islamic teachings.That is the reason why women are blamed for man’s Ills and downfall.The bible and Koran tolerates women as long they obey and if they don’t,it is another matter.

        • ccg

          Thurman
          Maybe a certain segment of people thought that, but most of us don’t. We know that Cain’s descendants are called Kenites. God made the black man as He wanted him and said it was good.
          Misinformed people like you are the ones who perpetuate these falsehoods and as you say stupidity. Another stupidity is Adam’s first wife is Lilith. You are so misguided it is pathetic. You are wrong. However you are entitled to believe these lies if you want to.
          I just feel sorry for you, and those you are leading down the wrong path.
          You obviously have not studied the Koran either. Islam is a very cruel religion to women. In fact according to the Koran very few women will ever make it to heaven.
          You are a very mixed up person in more ways than just your politics.

          • Thurman Marcum

            ccg,

            What about the sun going around the earth.Am I misguided aabout that?The bible myths were borrow from every religion in the ancient world.The Christian religion debated whether womaen had souls,age of the Earth and universe they thought were six thousand years old.Noah’s ark.It would take a stretch of imagination too believe that one.The slaves,the ripping off the indians and stealing their land.You better study your bible a little bit more.One of your so called saints said”thank God I wasn’t born a woman”.The horrible witch hunts and war on science, learning and even mildly questioning the wisdom of the christian religion,could mean death.Both Catholic and Protestant religions are guilty of unspeakable atrocities,this occured during the dark ages.They took their wrath and ignorance out on women,children as young as two years old,cats dogs,toad frogs,retarded people anyone else they thought was in leaque with the devil.when it came to torture, the muslem,s cruelty paled in comparison with the inquisition.Look up the Inquision. on the internet or your local library.People shouldn’t throw stones at the Isamic religion,when they better look in their own back yard.

          • Thurman Marcum

            ccg,

            My ancestor on my mom’s side was Jewish.Lilith indeed was Adam’s first wife.The bible was changed so many times that what is the original story doesn’t remotely resemble the bible today.I ask my third cousin,who is a Rabbi two years ago, he said the same thing about Adam’s first wife .These impossibe myths never happen.Even Jews today freely admit that these were mythical stories.Islam and Christianity sprung from Judaism.The two of them were borrowed from Mithraism.KEEP A OPEN MIND.YOU CAN’T GO WRONG.

            Thank You

          • DaveH

            Thurman,
            Have you heard of a Catholic suicide-bomber? Or a Lutheran suicide-bomber? Let’s talk about the here and now. We’ve got plenty of trouble currently without dredging up the past.

          • ccg

            Thurman are you a complete (word removed)?
            First off. when you study from the Original Manuscripts you find that the Original Kings James Version is very very close to being correct all of the way.
            You must prove where the Christian religion debated whether women had souls or not. Give me the scriptures! Not some History Book or the Qu’ran.
            You know Thurman there are a lot of people that call themselves “Investment Counselors”, but we find that some run a Ponzi scheme and end up stealing millions of dollars from innocent people. That does not mean all Investment Counselors are evil, nor are all good. The same thing goes for Christians. Some people think that just because they believe that there is a God, they must be a Christian. To be a Christian means to be Christ like.
            Lets see, there are two women in the Old Testament that held high offices and were held in great high esteem. One was Helga who was often asked questions by scholars as she was a head scholar. The second one is Deborah who was a Judge over Israel. She even led her people into a victorious battle. So much for women not being important.

            Oh yes, I have been studying the Islamic Religion too. I do know what I am talking about, but it is VERY OBVIOUS that you do not. You have no idea of the concept of what it is to know the Word of God, you just have traditions of man. You have no idea what is in the Qu’ran. lets see again the subject of women, the only religion where when the woman is raped, and she (the victim) is put to death. A woman cannot go out without her husbands permission. There are many many rules for the woman, but Islam is a man’s religion, by man, for man, and they use little boys for sex, even though the Qu’ran is against homosexuatlity, they get around it. Case in point about 9 months ago a teacher poured acid over a 15 yr. old male student and blinded and disfigured him for life because he refused the teachers sexual advances.
            You are the one who shouldn’t be throwing stones.

          • ccg

            Thurman
            My ancestory is not Jewish, it is Israelite. There is a major difference. The Kenites worked their way into the Preisthood, and there were many problems because of this.They brought their lies and deceptions into Levitical Preisthood. If you knew a little about the True Word of God, you would know that this displeased God very much. Just because your third cousin is a Rabbi doesn’t show his qualifications. There are a lot of false prophets all around. That is why the Bible tells us to study the Word so we can rightly divide the Word. If your cousin the Rabbi cannot handle the manuscripts any better than that, his credentials are worthless. He may be a Kenite, and not an Israelite.

            The only thing mythical is your closed mind.

            No, Lilith is definitely a myth. God created Adam (Eth Ha Adam) he then took the curve which we now know as the Helix curve (DNA) and created Eve. Thus we now have the bloodline that the Son of God would come through. And, by the way the Son of God is Jesus.

            Actually, the Qu’ran which was written by Muhammad says to follow the Holy Scriptures. By the way, Muhammad also married a 6 yr old girl and consummated this marriage when she was 9. Another pedophile.

    • eyeswideopen

      CC, doesn’t it bother you when you hear yourself saying, white women get raped all the time, white nerdy guys get beat up and bullied all the time. I don’t know if I should be upset that you are using “white” inferring that other races aren’t getting raped and beaten, or to be upset that you seem so biase’ about women getting raped. The way you stated it, made it seem like, oh, well it happens all the time, so no big deal. Maybe it is just a female reaction to your approach. But I can’t get out of my mind, the 14 yr old girl who was raped for 2.5 hours while 24 people watched and did nothing. This happened in Ca. just a few days ago. It is a big deal, when you get raped or beaten, regardless of your race, gender, religious beliefs or sexual preference. I personally don’t believe that you can legislate morality, and that is what is lacking in this country. I doubt that this bill will have much effect on those who hate anyone who is different and doesn’t belong to their race, party, church, or gender preference.

      • CC

        eyeswideopen…I am sorry if I seemed like it was “no big deal”…any acts of violence or despicable. I only used those examples because the gay/lesbian/black seem to think they are the only ones targeted in “hate” crimes and I was just painting a different picture to make a point that “no one” is exempt from violent crimes. The incident in which you refer to is apalling and the poor girl will never be the same. I don’t know all the details or why bystanders would not call for help but my prayers are with the poor girl and her family to heal and try to move on. I hope justice is served to “all” who partook of the crime and also watched (again I don’t know the details of that).

        • eyeswideopen

          Appreciate you clarification.

    • Average Joe

      CC,

      “a crime is a crime whether vandalism, bodily harm to another regardless of race, gender, sexual orientation, etc.”

      This is the only statement on this entire board that actually has any relevance at all.
      Under the Constitution of this nation the ONLY things that ARE crimes, are those that violate the rights of another person, regardless of race, gender,religion,political views, or sexual preference.
      If there is bodily harm or property damage, there is a crime. If there is no property damage or bodily harm, there is no crime.
      The Constitution was based on “common law”, which is based on the laws of God. It was written to be simple. God had 10 commandments (very simple common sense rules to live by).
      The Constitution has 3 articles spelling out what the national government can and cannot do. It then has 12 more additions known as the Bill of Rights (which outlines the RIGHTS of the people) Again this is a very simple document to grasp and again based on common sense.

      The next time you here the word “Crime”, ask yourself a few basic questions:
      Who is the injured party?
      What is the loss?
      What is the harm?

      Examples:
      Which of these things are crimes?
      Speeding
      DUI (no accident)
      DUI (accident)
      Possession of drugs
      Hitting your neighbor
      Driving without a license
      Driving with no insurance
      Murder
      Robbery
      We must start learning what is a crime and what isn’t a crime. Once we do that people, we can stop enforcing their non-laws and stop sending innocent people to jail.
      I suggest reading a book (it is short) and learning your most important RIGHT as a citizen of this nation…YOU are more important than the president of the United States…and YOU can VETO the Congress :
      http://www.famguardian.org/Publications/CitRulebook/rulebook.htm

  • s c

    I have NEVER needed the government to tell me what is and what is not a hate crime! Our government specializes in many things. One of them is a constant string of acts designed to limit our freedom and keep us destitute – while they grow RICH at our expense.
    We are infested with a plague of elected, braindead zombies who delight in making our lives complicated. We are expected
    to endure and ‘appreciate’ the presence of non-leaders who can’t think their way out a wet paper bag.
    How long will it take for Americans to realize that both congress and the white house are our main antagonists? They take care of themselves first. If they ever do anything for us, it’s a fluke. A plague on those lower life forms. Stalin, Mao and Hitler never had it this easy.

  • SUV Driver

    OK Folks, I got this in an e-mail, liked it and was gonna hit the delete

    button. Then I thought about it and said – OK I’m gonna spread the

    plan around.

    Subject: A Plan for Action

    I’m sending this to absolutely every email address that has ever

    crossed my computer. Some of you may get this twice. If that is the

    case, I apologize for the repetition. All I ask is that you consider

    the suggestion I’m making.

    The entire Congress of the United States is corrupt. And I mean both

    Houses and I mean both major parties. I realize that a few Members of

    each House are Independents and at least one is a declared Socialist but,

    as a group of people, they are absolutely the most corrupt bunch to ever

    disgrace our Nation.

    In November of 2010 the entire House of Representatives will have to

    stand for re-election; all 435 of them.

    One third of the Senate, a total of 33 of them, will also stand for

    re-election.

    Vote every incumbent out.

    And I mean every one of them. No matter their Party

    affiliation. Let’s start all over in the House of Representatives with

    435 people who have absolutely no experience in running that body, with

    no political favors owed to anyone but their own constituents. Let’s

    make them understand that they work for us.

    They are answerable to us and they simply have to run that body with

    some common sense.

    Two years later, in 2012, vote the next third of the incumbents in the

    Senate out. You’ll know who they are because their names will be on

    the ballot and, in most cases, will be shown as the Incumbent.

    If you don’t know who your Senators are,

    ( there are only two for each State ) find out. And then vote them

    out, too!

    We can do the same thing in 2014 and, by that time we will have put all

    new people in that body as well.**

    We, the People, have got to take this Country back and we HAVE to do

    it peacefully..

    That’s what the Framers of our Constitution envisioned.

    Please, if you love this Country, send this ( as I have done ) to

    absolutely everyone whose email address appears in your address book.

    This thing can permeate this Country in no time. Let’s make it

    happen.

    VOTE THE BUMS OUT….. LET’S TAKE AMERICA BACK !!!!!!!!!

    IF YOU LIKE THE WAY THINGS ARE GOING IN OUR COUNTRY, THEN DO

    NOTHING……

    • eyeswideopen

      I’m with you. Great idea, will forward to all my contacts. There is a man who has a site which promotes the same thing, I will see if I can get you his info. I believe he has a petition that I have signed.

    • eyeswideopen

      The mans name is Nelson Walker, his email address is Nels96@gmail.com. He works with bloggers trying to accomplish exactly what you want to do.

      • ccg

        Eyes, and SUV this is great. I agree with this.
        Thanks eyes for the name and address.

  • 1Godsman

    I feel sorry for you Jon as you like so many others you totally miss the point and why do you fear the Truth of God and His judgement of sin! Being a Christian is not about Religion but about a relationship and belief in God Allmighty, the same God who created all of us and the entire universe we live in. As to the premiss of crime, it is not a crime to have an opinion, feelings or beliefs about anything and express that belief by teaching the the good news of Jesus Christ. It is a crime to cause harm or deprive another of life, liberty or in some way make effort to deprive another of these by whatever means that is already protected by law. You state that there are “some Chrisitans” who “believe that Gay people should be killed” and espouse that they are full of hate and non-acceptance. Christians don’t need to “kill” gay people they are doing it to themselves with STDs’, AIDS, and many more physical maladies brought on themeselves than I care to mention. I don’t believe that because a person due to their Religious beliefs doesn’t agree with or accepts the LGBT “lifestyle” is a hate monger. That is what people of the LGBT “lifestyle” claim to be true and will take any steps possible to deny our right to believe according to our Religious convictions even to the point of making it illegal for us to have those convictions and beliefs. It is the LGBT which are the hate mongers wishing to deny us our right to believe the way we do and prevent us from having the freedom to express that belief, what happened to our Rights.
    You make the claim that “One’s sexuality does not determine a specific lifestyle”, well God either created you physically man or woman and that was Gods’ design for your lifestly, what you choose to do with your physical body is a personal choice of lifestyle you make. Just because people of Faith prefer to go with Gods’ design and believe that your physical sex at birth determines your sexuality don’t try and tell us that it is “normal” to live according to anything contrary to that and we are to embrace and accept any “relative sexuality” choice one makes. To follow along that line of thought than if someone wishes to have sex with animals than we are to “accept” that as a “normal” behavior and lifestyle because you choose to do that. I don’t think that you or anyone has the Right to make me or anyone else accept somones “relative choice” of sexual lifestyles because they “choose” to do something different. To have a law passed to “make” people who don’t choose to accept what they believe to be wrong as somthing that is “right” is a crime in itself as it resticts my Right to my own beliefs. If you of the LGBT movement are so “loving and accepting” then why aren’t I allowed my beliefs, and who is the one who hates whom. Read Romans 1:24
    May God forgive this country and its iniquity.

    • Lynn

      1Godsman
      You wrote… ” Just because people of Faith prefer to go with Gods’ design and believe that your physical sex at birth determines your sexuality don’t try and tell us that it is “normal” to live according to anything contrary to that and we are to embrace and accept any “relative sexuality” choice one makes.”

      Are you and other people of faith intellectually lazy or just simple? According to you all boys must love girls and all girls must love boys because its Gods design? No imperfections? No exceptions? Do you lack the intellectual capacity to accept that not every instance of human sexuality can fall into your childishly simple rules for sexuality. If your “book” says your physical sex at birth determines your sexuality… what does your book tell you to say about hermaphrodites? It doesn’t say anything does it? Maybe it’s time to grow-up and start reading other books. You want the right to your own beliefs… then get your own!! Stop reading two thousand year-old nonsense. Stop listening to those preachers who start their talks focused on your soul, but who end their talks focused on your wallet. Stop accepting the most ridiculously easy answer for all the tough questions. Crap like your sexuality is determined by your sex at birth. There must be some God that created man and the earth, because evolution is too hard to understand or astronomy is confusing. If you want to be a sheep, follow your shepherd. If you want to be a man… grow-up, smarten-up and read-up.

    • ccg

      1Godsman
      I I agree with you.
      I do not care what a person believes, just don’t try to make me go against my convictions of what is right or wrong. Don’t make me say its ok or that I agree with it.
      We cannot force anyone to think anything, but we can enforce how people behave towards one another. As someone said before any crime is committed out of hatred. No one kills someone because he loves them. Even if its killing out of being so mad at someone you love, it is still a rage and at that moment rage is hate.

  • Mlong

    Tell me, how can we take perversion and call it alternative lifestyle. Call it what it is perversion, exactly what homosexuallity is. Soon it will be molesters stating “it’s and alternative lifestyle ” and asking for specifics rights as have the homosexualls. We talk about this as though we shouldn’t stand against it since we will offend peverts. They need help bottom line, and can’t believe they want rights to raise other children that believe in there perversion. I have nothing against them since they are people in need of help with the same rights as any other human, but don’t accept the pushing of there agenda on me and my family. Please seek help! Realize that your lifestyle choice is not normal it’s perversion.

    • Lynn

      Tell me, how can we take perversion and call it alternative lifestyle. Call it what it is, it’s perversion, that’s exactly what religion is. Soon it will be Muslims stating “it’s an alternative lifestyle ” and asking for specifics rights like the Christians have. We talk about this as though we shouldn’t stand against it since we will offend perverts. They need help bottom line, and can’t believe they want rights to raise other children that believe in their perversion. You know, nonsense like Intelligent Design, Creationism, the Earth is only 6000 years old and belief that there is an imaginary Santa Claus that knows (or cares) who’s been naught and who’s been nice. I have nothing against them since they are people in need of help with the same rights as any other human, but I don’t accept the pushing of their agenda on me and my family. Please seek help! Realize that your lifestyle choice is not rational it’s a perversion.

      Tolerance and respect… it’s all how you look at it I suppose.

      • DaveH

        Lynn,
        I’m an atheist, but I truly practice the tolerance and respect that you apparently only give lip-service to. If the Liberals hadn’t pushed the religious people into a corner with their “separation of church and state” BS, they wouldn’t be so inflamed. Whether a God exists or not, they don’t want their kids to be indoctrinated in the public schools with the religion of Liberalism. Their kids can’t pray in school but they can be coerced to sing “mmm mmm mmm, Barack Hussein Obama”. They watch as their hard earned money is decimated by Government waste as championed by the Liberals. Is it any wonder they’re agitated? What is too bad is that the truly tolerant people get stuck with the societal war that has been created by Big Government advocates.

        • eyeswideopen

          You obviously missed the fact, that all the parents signed a waiver, stating it was fine with them if their children sang. Some people in this country aren’t paranoid radicals. Point being the parents gave consent, nothing was FORCED on anyone. Dittohead.

          • DaveH

            You missed the point, Ms. Double Speaker (or is it Mr.?). These schools aren’t allowed to have religious songs, but they can have the young children singing praise to Obama?
            Yours is a pretty amazing statement in light of these stories:
            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Fjj6a8aBNU

          • DaveH
          • DaveH

            http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/10/12/protesters-rally-obama-song-new-jersey-school/?test=latestnews

            As I have said before, I love it when Liberals comment, so the readers of this board can see what you are all about.

          • DaveH

            Harpy.

          • ccg

            Eyes, you are wrong that the parents signed a waiver. I heard one mother talking that did not know her child was singing those songs, nor did she approve of it.

          • eyeswideopen

            CCG, the parents did sign the waiver, the school administrators were smart enough to know exactlty how the rt would react and showed copies of the letters that the parents signed and they also were thinking of bringing a lawsuit against those tv stations who showed their childrens faces without authorization. Who do you think did that? Maybe Fox didn’t carry the whole story.

          • eyeswideopen

            Yep, Dave, just like the one they sang to Laura Bush, with Pres. Bush’s and the Fema being praised. Those kids were from New Orleans. You probably missed it, Fox doesn’t carry all the news.
            Children singing to Pres. Bush is ok, but not to Pres Obama. You and your type are hypocrites.

          • ccg

            Eyes,
            I listen to several different news networks and am not prejudiced like you are. You think you know it all, but you are wrong.

          • eyeswideopen
          • eyeswideopen

            CCG. be sure to go to page two, so you can see that the sources were Fox news.

          • ccg

            Eyes,
            You said:
            eyeswideopen says:
            November 2, 2009 at 9:01 pm
            CCG. be sure to go to page two, so you can see that the sources were Fox news.

            Your saying it was Fox News. Excuse me, you are the one who cant read.

            Sources: Fox News; Associated Press; Cyberhymnal; Media Matters; Raw Story; Think Progress.

            Raw Story whoever they are was questioning some of the facts. It never said it wasn’t true.

            Hmm maybe you need to pay attention to what you read, and quit inserting your words.

        • Lynn

          Dear DaveH: You wrote: “If the Liberals hadn’t pushed the religious people into a corner with their “separation of church and state” BS, they wouldn’t be so inflamed.” ?? The separation of church and state is BS? Why do you say that or what do you mean by that? (Just looking for your opinion.)
          But it’s a two-way street… I feel pushed into a corner by the religious right trying to hijack the Republican Party. When I read some of the flawed logic in some posts I try to intellectually challenge the writer(s). I thought my response to Mlong was ironic not intolerant.
          In an earlier response just exposed the blatant logic errors in the argument justifying religion as an overly simplistic rationale. But maybe you’re right, maybe I am intolerant… maybe I take offense to Bible quotes masking intellectual laziness or used as justification for taking the simple way out. We may not want the US to become socialist under Obama… but I certainly don’t want the US to become a religious tyranny like Iran.

          • DaveH

            Show me where in the Constitution it says anything about “separation of church and state”?

          • DaveH

            Thanks for clarifying your stance Lynn.

          • ccg

            Lynn, me thinks you do protest too much. You are always spouting off about religion. For someone who doesn’t want anything to do with it you spend a lot of time and energy putting it down.
            If you truly feel this way then quit talking about it and get off of the subject. Good grief.
            You are entitled to live your lifestyle however you want.
            No one can force you to believe anything, and you can’t force anyone to accept your lifetsyle. Touche.

        • Fed Up Gal in NM

          Dave H,

          I am not an Atheist….I am an imperfect Christian. I simply want to say (to you)….Thank you, for understanding the concern many Christians have regarding such “Musicals”, and for so eloquently explaining those concerns to others who (at least on the surface) seem to not understand….or not even attempt to understand. I sincerely appreciate your effort!

          Fed Up Gal

          • DaveH

            Thank you Fed Up.

  • tim k

    Please take the time right now to add impeachobama@impeachobamacampaign-news.com to your Contacts List, IT’S TIME TO STOP ALL THIS W/H + MOE/CZARS+++I LOVE AMERICA AND FREEDOM AND FREE ENTERPRISE/CONSTITUTION/ LOCK DOWN THE OPEN BORDERS… IT WILL TAKE ALL OF US TO DO THIS…

  • RoBoTech

    I “hate” the hate crimes bill. And that Jon Buffon above tries to say calling “white” crime is racist, then what in blazes do you call singling (Word Removed) and blacks out for special treatment. Does this not breed even MORE hatred for the “special ones” Of course it does. The Constitution AND the Civil Rights Act specifically says EQUAL PROTECTION under the Law. Now exactly where IS that equal protection?
    Idiotic to put even MORE onerous onto the Court system when the crime is ALREADY a crime.
    You Sir, are a fool.
    And this Hate Crimes carp WILL be repealed in 2012, and it WILL be judged Unconstitutional when SCOTUS rues on Affirmative Action early 2010. Count on it. Scotus has ALREADY ruled affirmative action has went past it’s usefulness, and “hate crimes” never had any use but to make guilt ridden LIBTARDS feel better about themselves and silence any dissention from people that disagree. well, I disagree and there’s NOTHING anyone can do about, that. And that racist crap doesn’t work on me, so save your breath.
    Pathetic little rat faced whiny babies!

  • jduff

    Good time to remember the center verse in the Bible that says it is better to trust the Lord than to put confidence in people.

  • CabotAR

    Good God!! Almost everything can now come under the Hate Bill. We’ll all in trouble because just speaking the truth can be revolutionary!!

    If you want to see the Hate Bill in action, just read that new book out where a small town in America stands up to federal tyranny & ends up starting the 2nd American Revolution!! It’s about you & me & defending our constitutional rights. I am encouraging everyone to read it & see what’s in store for us during the nxt 3 yrs. Power to the People!!
    http://www.booksbyoliver.com

    • s c

      Almost every piece of major legislation congress has passed over the last 60-75 years could be called hate crimes. That is, engineered hate crimes against the AMERICAN PEOPLE.
      Who (other than a delusional basket case) can look at what’s been passed by this administration and call them acts of love? This group of loonies lives for POWER. The more power they get, they more they want. They make addicts look like saints.
      The net effect of hate crime legislation is to single out a group or class, and give them protected status (they DON’T deserve it). It doesn’t make America better. It makes America worse, and further erodes our freedom(s).
      To me, when congress gears up for hate crime legislation, they’re trying to distract us from more serious issues. Why do we let these two-legged vermin get away with this constant, predictable stupidity? Is there anyone alive who hasn’t figured out that those Washington weasels and sidewalk stewardesses DO NOT work for us? Minimum wage is too good for these damned slimers. And these worthless scummies want us to have health insurance that THEY would never tolerate? OUTSOURCE THEM NOW!

  • DaveH
    • Fed Up Gal

      Dave,

      I guess I have mixed feelings about any vaccines. On the one hand, I believe it’s possible that some vaccines are actually helpful….on the other hand, I know someone who got Guillain-Barre syndrome shortly after getting a flu shot. Guillain-Barre syndrome is a disorder in which the body’s immune system attacks part of the nervous system.

      As for me, I don’t intend to take the regular flu shot or the H1N1 variety either.

      Bottom line, adults should be able to decide for themselves and their children…..the government should butt out on this too!

  • DaveH

    So if you kill me with a smile, I guess it’s Okay. Wow!

  • Rod

    Hey folks, If this is true, and I think it is.

    A Fed. judge min Calif. has ordered Obama to produce his birth certificate. A trial has been set for Jan. 26th.

  • Rod

    The judge said, the American people have a right to know if Obama
    is even eligible to be President. MAKES MY HEART FLUTTER!

    • Thurman Marcum

      Rod,

      What about John McCain? He was born out side of the United States. Panama City.

      • eyeswideopen

        Thurman, the Congress in April of 2008, had to pass a special legislative motion, stating that it was ok for McCain to run for office. We did not own the Panama Canal, we were leasing it for 99 years and his parents did not fill out the appropriate forms for him to become a naturalized citizen. The hospital where he was born, does not even show him entered anywhere in their records. It was surprising that his parents didn’t fill out the required forms for him to be naturalized, however two years later we changed the rules.

        • American Citizen

          McCain’s parents were US citizens and that’s all that should be necessary. Obama’s parents were not US citizens when he was born. He is an “anchor baby” if he wasn’t born in Kenya.

          • eyeswideopen

            Did you not understand that his mother was born in Witchia Kansas? What part of that don’t you understand?

      • DaveH

        Two wrongs don’t make a right.

  • s c

    This is intended for the sheep who have not yet contemplated the consequences of comrade obama going to Copenhagen to surrender America’s sovereignty. Are you NOT yet aware that comrade obama has already proven his slimy intentions by bypassing the Constitution?
    He has dared to intervene in private contracts. He has bypassed the Senate, to install unconfirmed czars who answer only to him.
    Wasn’t one FDR more than enough for America? If the current supreme court does not put comrade obama in his place, then comrade obama will have a free pass to do what he wants whenever it ‘feels good.’
    In that event, won’t it be a bit late to say that he “can’t” do that? Hitler was pretty good at doing things that he supposedly “couldn’t” do. Why would anyone in his right mind give comrade obama any chance to hand over our soverignty to any group or government?
    A prez who doesn’t have a clue about transparency or the Constitution isn’t going to hesitate to put America in chains
    by bypassing the Senate – AGAIN.

  • Jack Robert Weber II

    The laws of the Holy Bible do not apply to me. The laws of the Holy Bible only applies to Christians and Jews.

    • ccg

      Jack,You said it. These laws don’t apply to anyone that does not love the Lord. Neither do the rewards in eternity.

      With what I have been reading on this particular site I see why our country is in such trouble. If you don’t know the Truth, you can be deceived so easily, and that deception is so blatant on here. It is however your right to believe or not to believe. I just truly feel so sorry for you people. Some put forth myths to explain why you don’t choose to believe. When you don’t stand for truth, you fall for lies.

      Someone said we were trying to force you into believing by using fear tactics. No one can force you to believe any more than you could possibly force me NOT to beleve. That premise is rediculous. You just don’t want to read it or hear it, but remember we who do believe have the same right to say and write what the Bible says, as you who do not believe in the Bible to write and say what you do. You do not hold the only right to Freedom of Speech.

      I personally have a wonderful relationship with My Heavenly Father. I have such a peace and joy in my life because I have God in my life. Nothing that you can say or do, can take away from the reality of my
      relationship and my love for my God and my Saviour.

  • DaveH

    This hate crime bill reminds me of a notice on the bulletin board outside of a courtroom. It said that 2 women (separate events) were murdered by their husbands “even though the husbands had restraining orders on them”. Welcome to the world of Duh!
    Does anyone really believe someone who is going to commit the most heinous crime of all is going to change his/her mind because it might be construed as a hate crime?
    We need more government to save us from this Big Government.

    • ccg

      Dave, I agree. This bill is similar to being politically correct. It is another attempt at making everyone conform in our thinking to what the Government says is correct.
      Now if it is deemed a hate crime, the Federal Gov’t. will do the punishing. A crime is a crime and should be punished, but now all of the tax payers get to pay for the punishment, instead of the state that the crime was committed in.
      Most people are appalled at any terrible crime as they should be. Law and order is still the Law of the Land.
      We all have our thoughts on what is socially correct, which dictates how we act in public. Now the Gov’t. is trying to make it illegal for us to have individual ideas and ideals.
      The Gov’t. is trying to take away incentives to improve ourselves financially by turning our nation into a Socialistic society. They are tyring to take away our rights all together, so this is just one more step toward that goal.

    • Thurman Marcum

      Daveh,

      I agree with you.The politically correct doesn’t make any sense at all.It is not my cup of tea.I am a true liberal and no where in our philosophy that we endorses this kind of bull crap.It is against freedom of speech and it seems like a bad joke.

  • American Citizen

    Instead of hate crimes, they should call them “thought crimes”. The thought is father to the deed. If I hate chocolate, is that a hate crime?

    • eyeswideopen

      Get off the meds.

      • DaveH

        Another derogatory comment from the Liberal Harpy EyesWideShut.

    • ccg

      American Citizen you are so right. That is what they are trying to do. Eyes wants to be the Thought Police.

  • Fed Up Gal in NM

    Oh my….EYES…don’t believe I’m seeing this againnnnnnnnnnnnn. Are you saying the school administrators put that much thought into something that even by your description…..sounds eerily similar to a PLAN? You mean…..they plannnnnnnnnned this???? Oh my……tell me it isn’t so!

    This was a PUBLIC school, correct? Hmmmmm, even though I think you have the belief that citizens don’t pay taxes that go to PUBLIC schools (I think that’s a close replication of a comment you posted previously, but maybe it was someone else); however, it is my belief that PUBLIC schools are EXACTLY one of the GOVERNMENT’s intended recipients of taxpayer dollars. So, why is it a problem for the news media to film ANYONE on PUBLIC property?

    I could be wrong, but it doesn’t seem to be nearly such a big deal when those on the FAR LEFT allow Pelosi’s (and other FAR LEFTS’) very young relatives to be “shown” pouring on the emotional blackmail tears at a press conference, Health Care Reform speech, or other similar “showing”. Before you come back with something like “not fair, the kids singing Ode to Obama were doing so in school, so it was educational”……let me counter that with two things: 1. If it’s educational, then everyone (the PUBLIC) should be able to view our educational system at work (the system the PUBLIC helps support); 2. I don’t recall seeing any comments (by the FAR RIGHT or even the MODERATES) screaming FOUL and talking about lawsuits against any of the news media (ABC, CBS, NBC, FOX, etc) for showing the faces of Pelosi’s young relative during that staged event. Hmmmmm…I would have thought Pelosi would herself have thought twice about that before using that child as a pawn for political reasons (ONLY)!

    Again, I just don’t get how you seem to either misunderstand or misconstrue the points being made in some of these posts. The POINT is this: President Obama ran on his CHANGE platform; so if you’re saying that kids sang songs about Bush when he was the President….then exactly how is Obama any different?????Where is his change? I believe that’s what most people are upset about; not just that the Obama administration is engaging or at least supporting such efforts (that do in fact sound similar to communists and/or dictator type indoctrination), but that he said in essence…things are going to be different…..and OH….HOW THEY ARE DIFFERENT….but apparently not in the ways he seemed to promise.

    Okay….not for anything else, but just check out this clip please. Maybe it will explain much of the frustrations many Conservatives are feeling. Well….I at least tried to keep it in a humorous light (some will likely disagree….Thank God we can still agree to disagree…for now).

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IXpHZaGGfE4&feature=related

    Fed Up Gal

    • eyeswideopen

      Fed Up, well, I can’t imagine how you think that the President is responsible for what a school does without his knowledge. You all seem to think that he is personally involved with every decision every school in America makes. Little Ludricous don’t you think? Did the school check with him to get approval for their program to honor blacks in America? No. Is he responsible for the content? No. The radicals have gotten to a level that is absoutely illogical. Security is the reason Children are not video taped at schools. Some children need to be protected from parents looking for them, some are in protection programs, and some parents don’t want their childrens faces plastered all over the nation. That is a parents right.

      What you are saying, is that this President must do absoutely everything differently than the previous 43? He must change everything even though some things work fine? Why don’t you and your cohorts just issue a list of things he cannot do, and then everyone would have a good idea of what you expect. You are making this song about change? Boy you have some really infinitesimal requirements.

      I will notify him, that he will need to check with all the elementary schools in the country on a daily basis to make sure that they aren’t going to use his name, give him any repect or even discuss the fact that he is the President much less honor him during black history month. Just for your info, I do believe in public education, it is Dave H. that doesn’t. His parent paid for a private one.

      • DaveH

        More misinformation from Eyes the Liberal. I support parental choice. If they choose to send their kids to a propaganda (I mean public) school, that is fine with me. Eyes has come fully out of the ultra-lib closet.

        http://www.desertconservative.com/2009/09/04/the-propaganda-obama-wants-children-to-read/

        • eyeswideopen

          Dave, she thinks because kids go to a public school the media has the right to video them without consent of their parents. You are agreeing to the same thing? What about the right of privacy?

        • DaveH

          As usual, trying to put words in my mouth. Read my comment.

          • ccg

            Dave, Eyes can’t read. That’s why she is so confused all of the time.

      • denniso

        Eyes…Good points!!

      • CindyL

        Eyeswideopen, you have brought up a point that I hadn’t considered. Obama, didn’t authorize nor set the agenda of the elementary school program. You are correct. He cannot be held responsible for content which the local schools are developing. In addition, Bush, cannot be held liable for the songs sung to Laura about him and Fema. The school district is the one who sets the curiculum and they are not required to check with the presiding President to see if they agree. People seem to be leaving logic behind for this specific situation.

    • Fed Up Gal in NM

      EYES,

      Please read again my comments. I think you may have missed the entire point of my discussion. Those who consistely chant “YES WE CAN” and run their platform by repeatedly referring to themselves as the agent of “CHANGE” (or have others do it for them), should LEAD by EXAMPLE when they expect the rest of us to believe their words are anything other than “just get me elected” rhetoric. Again, he CHOSE the battleground, when he CHOSE to run a SLAM-DUNK CHANGE platform! Just my thought!

      Fed Up Gal

      • Fed Up Gal in NM

        And,EYES…those who wish to go to PUBLIC School, should continue to do so (I did). They should however, not try to restrict the PUBLIC from having REASONABLE access to view what is being taught or what is occuring in taxpayer subsidized PUBLIC schools. Just keep in mind, what you feel may be reasonable…may not be reasonable to me…..

        Fed Up Gal

      • CindyL

        Fed Up, I think you missed a valid point made by Eyeswideopen. Please read my post.

        • Fed Up Gal in NM

          Cindy….No I’m sure I didn’t, but thank you for trying. The only logic that seems to have been left behind, is yours’ and EYES (on this particular topic). It also looks like you may have changed your mind about waiting for some new posts. How interesting.

          The point isn’t whether Obama authorized or set the agenda (maybe he did/maybe he didn’t). He was (and still is) in a great position to persuade those apparently in charge (since HE apparently ISN’T by your and EYES explanation).

          He may have been seen in a different light if, before the second, third, fourth….school visits….he would have persuaded all those school administrators to come up with a song that does not sound like the kids are being indoctrinated. Do you really think the school administrators would have gone against Obama’s wishes….if he sincerely asked them to modify or even forgo the singing chants? Even giving him the benefit of doubt for the first school visit (maybe he had no idea of what was on the agenda….hmmmmm)……the next several school visits were golden opportunities for him to demonstrate his speech on CHANGE is more than a speech and he passed them up for (in my opinion) stardom.

          I also wonder how many of those kids understand what was happening. I wonder if they were just excited to be on television and on television with the President (due to their own interests or that of their parents). So, maybe the chant was just a chant. Given their ages….maybe the kids don’t care one way or the other about this or any other President. They may care more about recess and the ride home after school. If true, then I guess it may have all just been a rouse.

          Just wondering, since EYES mentioned the parents did sign a release and may sue the news stations for filming their kids without “their” consent…..I wonder how many of those kids might sue the schools when they are old enough to understand how they were manipulated. Wow….this day and age…they might even sue their parents!

  • The Major

    I’m sorry for not reading all of your replys. I tried to contact Rep.
    Deborah Wasserman-schultz (Oy!), who said that she is pushing the hate crimes bill due to the amount of blacks,spanish & people of the
    jewish faith in her district,,,but could not get through ’cause I do not live in her dist.. I wanted to ask her if she thought that a group
    of Americans,who are less than 1% of the country would qualify as a
    “Minority” & therefore be protected under this bill.Someone asked her & she refused to include “Women on ACTIVE DUTY in the MILITARY” as a
    minority,,,yet women in the military routinely are harrassed,abused,
    threatened, beaten,raped & murdered,,at a higher rate than women in
    other walks of life. The Military does what it can,but they should still be protected from crimes of hate,based on their gender. Maybe if
    women from the rep.s dist. in florida were to come foward to her and
    complain,something might get done,,but I think that if they are not of her preferred minorities, she will show them the Potomac 2-step.

  • DaveH

    Another of Obama’s Socialist friends, Andy Stern.
    “Workers of the World Unite!”. Wasn’t that a Marxist slogan for the Russian Revolution?
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WzG0xpkjWrA

  • DaveH

    Everybody knows that it’s only a hate crime if committed by a conservative:
    http://americasbestchoice.blogspot.com/2009/08/union-thugs-beat-black-conservative-at.html

  • Thurman Marcum

    Daveh,

    We could have a repeat of the Dark Ages.I wasn’t trying to bring up the past.I warning people it could happen again.(The Slauhter of Innocents and the Adam and Eve myth, by T.W. Doane)these are sun myths.
    These truths have been suppress for years by Christianity and Islam.You could get this information from the internet.I think Judaism,Christianity and Islam are just about alike,they suppress freedom of thought.We could easily have another repeat of another Nazi Germany,only this time it may be the United States.

    • eyeswideopen

      Thurman, these people do not want to learn from history. They won’t even discuss the past administrations actions. I understand what you are attempting, however, you are hitting too close to home. Good try though. I would have liked to see the views of some.

      • Thurman Marcum

        Eyes,

        I am not a atheist,I do believe in a Universal Being.No one can explain the universe it will always be a mystery.You got Edwin Hubble the astronomer said the universe is expanding as result of a explosion,known as the big bang.I believe the universe was never created,it has been around for ever and has no beginning nor end.I am not attempting anything.Eyes this is called freedom of speech.What I am saying is called the truth.You criticize Dave for his comments,freedom of speech is a two edge sword.I have a right to my opinions.

        • libertytrain

          Thurman – I always enjoy your opinions – we don’t all have to believe the same thing – and your opinions are interesting to read.

          • Thurman Marcum

            Liberty,

            Thank You,

            I believe in checking things out.We are both descendants of Jews,I don’t want people think my one ancestor was God’s chosen person,there is a thin line between love and hatred.We have to remember that Adolf Hitler grew up in a Jewish neighborhood,when he was a little boy he evidently played with Jewish kids.When he grew too manhood, as we know became a rabid anti-semite.We as a people can’t be put on a pedestal.We soon or later have to live up to people’s expectations and that can lead to nothing but pain and misery.We are after all human,we are no different from any other people.Even though I am classified as a gentile .I am still proud of my heritage.

          • libertytrain

            Thurman – another nice post from you. Heritage is kind of who we are and what influences us in many ways.

          • ccg

            Liberty, you said it. Thurman’s ideas are very interesting, like a cartoon.

          • libertytrain

            ccg – I think it’s great to be able to hear other people’s thoughts without insults to their right to think/believe as is right and true for them. I don’t have to agree with every belief, but I prefer to hear them – and would “fight for their right to say them”

          • ccg

            Thurman, Adolph Hitler was a Jew himself.

        • denniso

          I think Eyes was agreeing w/ you..

    • DaveH

      Thurman,
      History is replete with evil from human beings. Any time you give one group too much power that possibility exists. We have done that currently by letting the government get so big.

  • Thurman Marcum

    ccg,Idiot

    The bible said the sun went around the earth.How do you explain that one?God stop The sun.I am waiting for a answer and please explain Noah’s ark.You try ram your silly beliefs down other people’s throats.Moses leading people across the red sea in a few minutes and the Pharoah’s entire army drownded by the sea.Egypt would be would be over run by its enemies.I bet you can’t tell me who the Pharoah was. Sigmand Freud,after years of research could find no evidence of Moses.

  • ccg

    Thurman,
    No one is trying to ram anything down anyones throat. You are the one who keeps putting down Christianity. You are the one who is prejudiced and is saying if we don’t believe like you do then we are wrong.
    You tell me where in the Bible it says the sun went around the earth.
    I am sure Sig. Freud was a great Theologin, and researcher. Sure he was.NOT.
    I could answer these questions, such as the Pharoah, the scholars think that this was more than likely a title such as the President is a title or position.
    I have no intention to keep this going as for one, this is not the place for a Theology study. I am a student of the Word and History. Two, but, all you want to do is argue about it, and the Bible tells us not to cast our pearls amongst swine. If the shoe fits boy, then wear it with pride.

    • Thurman Marcum

      ccg,

      Dr Sigmand Freud was not a theologian,he was called the father of modern psychiatry.Dr Freud was run out Germany because he was a Jew during the rise of Hitler.The bible and other myths has hidden meanings that was inserted for man too cracked the secret codes later on, we are just now relearning these ancient wisdoms.Moses meant life taken out water,in other words evolution,The Battle of Jericho destruction of matter,but not all matter was destroyed,the whore was spared.Most women in the bible and the koran were link to matter.The ancients didn’t know what matter was,but to mention matter it would scare them too death.Abraham’s sphere which meant hole in space,you know what that sounds like.A black hole.The pharoah’s heart was harden,meaning solidifying the elements .In Greek mythology Medusa the woman with the snakey hair,a clance from her could turn man into stone.That too was harden of the elements.There are a lot of things that were taken out of the bible,either through ignorance or deliberate.The bible and other myths are very sophisticated and almost impossible to understand.I have to write a whole book on these characters and it would take too much time,even for some of them.Read Lloyd M. Graham: Deceptions and Myths of the Bible.He will explain what the meanings of Moses,Abraham his sister-wife Sarah and countless of others.You will be susprise.These ancient men of wisdom were way ahead of their times.These characters were symbols and as men and women they didn’t exist.

  • CindyL

    Wow! the first two sites I was in were civil, but this one is loaded with nasty comments, name calling, group attacks, and very hateful responses. After reading a good percentage, it seems as though when anyone goes against the grain of the party, they are attacked violently and when one of the identified libs supplies a fact or a different perspective they are denigrated. Why can’t we avoid tagging and use respect when dealing with each other. I will wait for some newer sites, hoping that you re-read your own statements with more objective stance, aknowledging that most of you are guilty of what Mr. Livingston requests you don’t do. Question, just because you aren’t cussing, does that make it ok, for you to change others names, give nick names and call people morons, idiots, ignorant, and stupid?

    • libertytrain

      CindyL – folks are trying to be more civil. Give them a chance.

    • Fed Up Gal in NM

      Cindy L,

      I agree with Liberty; people ARE trying to be more civil in the debates. I’m not sure what (or which) “party” you were referring to. I honestly can say that I have observed both supportive and demeaning comments from several and from just about all sides. In my own defense (I’m sure I’ll need one at some point, if not now)…I’ve spent over an hour or two (between home chores drafting this reply, to try an impart my viewpoint as respectfully as possible. The fact is, there will surely be someone who will read my “written” word and assume I mean/meant something completely different. That’s to be expected, when others cannot see facial expressions and/or hear the inflection or tone in the comments.

      In reference to your comment about denigrating remarks…..given the political and religious tenor of the topics being discussed, I’m not really surprised by this. I guess I just don’t expect commentators on a political site, to always say things as kindly as I might like. Heck, being the imperfect human being that I am, I can’t promise that I not or won’t slip up and express an unflattering (or worse…hopefully not) remark when responding to another’s comment that I might be a bit offended or frustrated by. I also think some posters try to simply goad people into responding a certain way….so, it’s sometimes hard to tell who might be more (or less)disrepectful. I guess the only saving grace may be that the webmasters seem to be trying to remove words that seem completely inappropriate.

      Having said that and while I do think your comments may be a useful reminder for us ALL to choose our words wisely, I also think it helps to put this in perspective. For me, it is helpful to think of this as similar to my drive home from work. Not unlike the email blog traffic on this site…..almost as a general rule, the road traffic is chaotic, lanes are closed and tempers heated (substitute minds are closed, for “lanes are closed”). It doesn’t make it right; it just makes it so.

      Just like drivers on the highway will be disrespectful to other drivers, by cutting them off, mouthing off, etc……I believe it is easier for those anonymously posting comments on a site, to be less cordial, maybe even nasty at times….when we know others won’t know us personally. Again, it does not make it right….but still make it so (at times).

      I believe if you’ll spend a little more time reading more of the comments and offering your viewpoint when you feel so inclined; you might take away a different perspective on some particular topic at some point…or maybe not.

      For the record, I am a registered Republican; that does not mean I ALWAYS vote Republican. I do however; vote (as best I can judge) on the side that seems to reflect conservative values more in line with my own.

      Fed Up Gal

      • Fed Up Gal in NM

        Ooooops! Sorry…..Guess I missed a couple of typos when I typed my previous reply. Believe it or not, I actually typed it up on a Word doc first, then did Spell Check and copy/pasted to this text box. Oh well…what can I say, except…it’s been a very long day! If my statements don’t make sense, let me know and I’ll try to clarify.

        Fed Up Gal

      • libertytrain

        Fed Up Gal – good post

        • Fed Up Gal in NM

          Thanks Liberty; I must say you are just about the most polite commentator I’ve ever seen. You have a gift for being able to get your point across in a very respectful way, to those you agree with and to those you don’t. What a GIFT that is!!!!!

          Fed Up Gal

          • libertytrain

            FedUp – thanks so much for the kind comment – you don’t do so badly yourself!

      • CindyL

        Fed up,
        I was raised that two wrongs don’t make a right. My father was very insistant that I hold on to my ethics and respect others even if they had disrespected me. He taught me that when you let anger take over, you are no better than an animal, as they don’t use logic, or intelligence, they just respond on instinct or fear. We were allowed to be upset and angry, but we were not allowed to lose control, name call, hit, spit, or demean the other person. When we were little he used to say to us, What would Jesus say or What would Jesus do? As a Christian that little saying has served me well. When people are demeaning to others, they are assuming an attitude of superiority. Since no one is perfect and knows everything, no one has the right to climb up on that superior pedalstal and look down on others. It is possible to debate without demeaning the other party. People use excuses to justify their lack of control and respect for each other. We are adults, who are typing, not talking, and have ample time to review what we are saying and edit. Face to face debates require more self control, here however, you have all the time you need to control yourself.

        • Fed Up Gal in NM

          Cindy L,

          We seem to agree on some points (others maybe not). Of course, you are to be commended for behaving in an ethical manner and for treating people respectfully….no debate there.

          I don’t really know how to respond to your statement “he taught me that when you let anger take over, you are no better than an animal, as they don’t use logic, or intelligence, they just respond on instinct or fear”. Guess it’s possible you may be right about that……there are many days I would rather spend time with my animals (pets) than some humans!

          Having said that, and with as much respect as this flawed human being can muster at the moment….am I to believe that you’ve NEVER (in all your life) communicated something in writing that you later regretted and wish you had not written? If your answer to this question is yes, then I suspect you might be in line to become a saint! Maybe your father was grooming you for just such a title; I guess those of us who may not have had such a gifted (earthly) fatherly relationship may be relegated to simply dreams of sainthood.

          In my own defense and while I’m sure there will be some who disagree, I believe I’ve been pretty respectful in my communications on this site….thus far; however, as I am not a saint …I am reminded to “check my pious at the door”, as the climb up that pedestal you referenced is a long one. I can’t speak for others, but (to me) some of your own comments seem (in the written word) to be somewhat demeaning as well (possibly because I can’t see your facial expressions or hear the tone of your voice). I’m sure you took some time to draft your comments…….so I guess I’m wondering how superior you must be feeling now?

          I also believe that God prefers we still communicate with others that may not believe as we do….if for no other reason than….that’s what Jesus would do. Don’t misunderstand…I’m certainly no shining example of that….just a work in progress. Just because people disagree on this site, does not mean everyone should just stop communicating…even with those they may disagree with. In fact, it’s during times of conflict that people sometimes (not always …but sometimes) have an enlightening moment…..or at the very least have an understanding of the other….even if they don’t agree. If you take a closer look at some of the postings, you might see where several posters politely reminded others to be more respectful. They were still able to communicate in some manner.

          Fed Up Gal

          • CindyL

            Fed Up, gotta give it to you girl, you are the most polite condensending person on this site. You were able to critize my father and the way I was raised in one fell swoop. Well done.LOL. No, I didn’t say I was perfect, however I strive to do better everyday. You pointed out my lack of perfection and I am sure you didn’t mean to be tacky with your comment about the Saints. I am waiting for my wings to be delivered, UPS is late. You missed my point. Yes, people can be upset and make a stupid comment. However, when you are repeatedly making the same comment, or calling the same person a name in every post, it is no mistake. It is intentional, don’t you agree? Could you please point out where you thought I was out of line, as I would surely like to make an apology to that specific person. I never said to stop communicating, I said, we have the ability to read our posts prior to sending and can stop degrading each other. The excuses given that they were upset, are the excuses that kids give for no control. Your point is well taken that you think being human is a good excuse for losing your temper and that is just the way life is. I think that when you expect the best from people they will give it to you. I am trying to raise my children not to give excuses for their bad behavior and that they can control their language. Please understand that we have different approaches, I strive for perfection knowning I may fail, but striving for it none the less. Please do let me know whom I offended, so I may make amends to that person. Thank you.

  • Thurman Marcum

    ccg,

    Adolf Hitler was never a Jew.He was a Cathloic and his ancestorrs were from Poland,they too were Roman Catholics.

  • Wonder Woman

    This is absolutely ridiculous. A crime is a crime. It’s as much of hate a crime for that college professor to molest his adopted young son and offer him out for services as it is for the couple that kidnapped that young girl and kept her locked up as a sex slave for years.

  • Skylar644

    I’m not going to get into the religious side of this. The only thing I really have to say is WHY ARE THE HOMOSEXUALS GETTING THEIR OWN LAWS?? There are already laws on the books to protect all people. Murder is murder, I don’t care if it’s a Pastor or a homosexual. The law has been broken, if this act is caried out. Bringing the act of “thought” into our legal system is going to create a hornets nest and not just for Pastors and people of faith, but a whole host of others.

    Just think about it. All that has to be done is for someone to make an “innocuous statement” and someone else to misinterpret that statement and carry it to a an illigal conclusion….bingo…the person who made the “innocuous statement” can be prosecuted for putting that thought into someone else’s mind.

    How’s that Obama and his Democrat Congress working out for you….?

  • JohnW

    I cannot comprehend how it is that the only ones free to attack the rest of us are these misbegotten pukes. Don’t get too close – I bite.

  • Claire

    Geez—some of you are like Sean Hannity–you freak out when someone disagrees with you. Eyes has a right to say what she thinks, just like the rest of you. I do not see the need to become derogatory over this Hate Crimes Bill. Maybe this Bill will keep some of the creeps “in line.” No one should go around picking on someone else just because they are different. We are supposed to be civilized human beings. The bullies of the world only prove they are disillusioned with themselves. They go around picking on others because they are losers and they blame everyone else. And no, I’m not a lesbian nor am I a Liberal.

    • Fed Up Gal in NM

      Claire,

      You’re in a blog site that discusses just about every topic folks may feel passionate about (including, but not limited to politics and religion).

      Why do you consider it “freaking out” when Sean Hannity (anyone for that matter) stands their ground on a topic they feel strongly about? Just because Sean Hannity invites people with opposing and those with similar views as his, does not mean he will agree with all of them. He has his own set of values that he is passionate about…at least he’s up front about it and allows others to offer their viewpoint…even if it’s different than his. Must he conform to those who do not agree with his views, in order to not be seen as “freaking out”? I hope not! For the record…I don’t agree with everything Sean Hannity puts forth…..probably most….but not all. Those who feel he freaks out when someone disagrees with him……. currently still have the option of changing the station and choosing another radio/TV commentator with views more in line with their own. That’s why I choose to watch FOX more often than the other (more mainstream) media, because I feel they offer opinions from both sides more often than the other stations.

      I just don’t quite understand why you (and others apparently), feel posters who don’t post ONLY “warm and fuzzy” comments…… must be “the Bullies of the World”. You are so correct when you say “The bullies of the world only prove they are disillusioned with themselves”….and when you say “They go around picking on others because they are losers and blame everyone else”. I could not agree more on these particular points. The difference (I believe) in our viewpoints is, I believe ANYONE that commits a violent crime against anyone else (not just those who committ crimes against those in certain protected groups) are ALL LOSERS.

      My thought is, it may be more prudent to ENFORCE the TOUGHEST laws and punishment against ANY LOSER that commits a violent crime against ANYONE else, since as several others on this site have suggested…..all VIOLENT CRIMES ARE COMMITTED IN AT LEAST A MOMENT, IF NOT A LIFETIME OF HATE! ALL VIOLENT CRIMES SHOULD BE EQUALLY PUNISHED!

      Fed Up Gal

  • Fed Up Gal in NM

    EYES…..Relating to your comments/reply to Dave H,”eyeswideopen says:
    November 2, 2009 at 9:09 pm
    Dave, you mean like forcing us to only have one choice of an insurance company, when it is a matter of life and death? Yes, sir, those healthcare insurance companies are definately forcing their rates and plans on us. If you are unlucky enough to live in a state with only one health care provider, that would qualify as Force. And you still want them to be able to hold us hostage, amazing Dave, what happened to your force arguement? Corporate monopolies are Force.
    =====================================================================
    Well EYES….just wondering what that must say about “BIG GOVERNMENT CORPORATE FORCE”? Who else, but BG Uncle Sam could come close to a “Corporate Monopoly”? Geeeeeeeeeez Louiiiiiiiiiiiiiiissssssssse!

    Fed Up Gal

  • Fed Up Gal in NM

    Cindy L,

    Well, sure looks I may have struck a nerve. I am sorry you felt I was criticizing your father, by my comment “Maybe your father was grooming you for just such a title”; that was not my intent. My intent was however, to attempt to hold a mirror up for you to see your own human shortcomings that seem (at least to me) to be similar to those you were chastising in your first post, short of name-calling. In hindsight, maybe I could have phrased my comment differently…although I kind of get the impression, it really wouldn’t matter how I said it…if my words or opinions aren’t as piously strict as yours seemed, then I’m labeled “the most polite condescending person on this site”. I wonder if in hindsight, you think you might have phrased some things differently as well?

    Regarding your thought that people who repeatedly make similar comments and repeatedly engage in name calling, you may be right about that (really). I do believe that probably happens more than I would like to admit, but I also think it’s possible that people sometimes develop very bad habits that may be hard to break….maybe like the bad habit you feel I have of being politely condescending….or maybe like the bad habit I feel you may have when you take my words and manipulate them for some unknown reason. I don’t recall saying that I think being human is a good excuse for losing your temper and that is just the way life is”; I think what I said was “I believe it is easier for those anonymously posting comments on a site, to be less cordial, maybe even nasty at times….when we know others won’t know us personally. Again, it does not make it right….but still makes it so (at times).” There is a difference Cindy, between using something as an excuse and simply recognizing that something occurs. I also don’t think every blunder someone may make is intentional. Not everyone has your ability to organize their thoughts and words in a nice, neat package.

    You did however, in my opinion….conveniently fail to note that I actually agreed with some of your comments, for instance when I said “Having said that and while I do think your comments may be a useful reminder for us ALL to choose our words wisely, I also think it helps to put this in perspective”. I think that even if I agreed with all but one of your points….it would still not be enough. My concern is that if we are not careful, we can lose all perspective and end up standing for absolutely nothing….or absolutely everything….neither is a good solution. I do commend you for striving for perfection…that is a truly lofty goal. For me, I think I will simply try to be the best I can be….my understanding is that the job of being perfect has already been filled….by God. While we should certainly strive to do our best (also knowing we will likely fail miserably at times)….I don’t think any of us humans will ever quite measure up to God’s level of perfection.

    I’m also not sure how to fully interpret your comments on your first post, as it seems you only have a problem with certain posters you feel are identified as non-libs, but I really didn’t get the feeling you are too concerned about some of the “identified libs” (your phrase, not mine) who also engaged in similar antics. Careful…..your anger may be showing a bit. I could be wrong of course. Let me know when UPS arrives, and you get those angel wings……it’s a shame you probably only ordered one pair. Way to go…..looking out for number “1” eh? That’s okay, I can live with that…LoL . After all, and I thank God….I won’t be dependent on you (alone) for forgiveness of my own shortcomings. That’s not meant to be condescending….just truthful.

    • libertytrain

      Fed Up Gal – she’s baiting you – don’t fall for it – You’re too good to deal with that kind of crud.

      • Fed Up Gal in NM

        Liberty,

        Yes…I think you’re right. Thank you for picking up on that and offering your thoughts. I always appreciate hearing what you have to say!

        • libertytrain

          Feb Up Gal – there seems to have a been a surge from the left and conservative “pretenders” probably trying to upset the apple cart because their comments are not removed here like the conservative views are from the leftist sites. Bob Livingston offers freedom to participate as opposed to the other leftist sites. Which means they get bored, come over here and start, as was so wisely pointed out by Jeff and Dave and others, – Internet Trolling.

          • Fed Up Gal in NM

            Liberty,

            Once again…I think you, Dave and Jeff (among others) hit the nail on the head. Thank goodness, the floodlight is shining in the dark alleys….I mean minds of “Pretend Land”. I had never heard the term “Internet Trolling” until visiting this site….but it is apparently a “real” pastime of some. Kind of funny…in a way.

          • libertytrain

            Fed Up – I heard/read the terms often times as I traveled the Internet – but never experienced it till recently when “the Boys” started pointing it out and at first I thought they were being a tad bit rude, but after research – I think not. I love your “floodlight is shining the dark alleys” – keep a light on – perhaps it frightens away the trolls.

    • CindyL

      You failed to let me know who I offended. Thank you in advance.

      • Fed Up Gal in NM

        I think if you’ll read my posts again, it will become clear. Also, there’s no need for an apology Cindy. You’re as free as the rest of us to put your opinions out. Isn’t it generous of Bob Livingston to allow all us ALL to share our sometimes diverse opinions?

        • libertytrain

          Fed Up – nice reply.

  • http://www.atheistusa.org Ron

    Religion is 98% of all the worlds problems!!!!

  • Fed Up Gal in NM

    Liberty,

    Yes, I too suspected the “boys” might be up to no good when I first read the “trolling” phrases. I decided to read more and try to discern what people really mean by some of their statements, unlike the IT’s who seem to camoflauge themselves and feed on unsuspecting visitors like a venus fly-trap…LoL.

  • Miki

    Much talk of god with not one jot of evidence that this idol actually exists. To be quite honest, you are all in for one big surprise when u all die, because die you will and you can take your hate with you to the grave. Do not expect to see this god you rant about for he is non existant. Do not expect those you scream about to go to hell, that too, does not exist. I am so proud to be gay. Proud that I do not need to look for solace in some fairytale book. Proud that I am not fooled by religious intolerence or dogma, designed primarily to control. Proud to be a member of the human race in all it’s multi – faceted glory. Proud to be me and not some ‘puppet’ who’s own sense of shame keeps them from seeing the truth. Long may you hate, for your hate will be your downfall!

  • Fed Up Gal in NM

    The surprise may be on Miki, since he or she seems to be engaging in the very intolerance he/ she is scolding the board posters about. Unlike Miki, I believe there is evidence that God exists; but it really does not matter if Miki chooses to believe (or not believe). Miki will just continue to be proud of him or herself, thinking he/she is really in control. As for me, I’ll just take my chances believing in God while on this earth…rather than to find my sole (and soul) comfort in human beings (puppets or otherwise).

  • http://charter howe

    This recent legislation is nothing more than a political statement to get votes for Obama and the liberal democrats. America is a land of laws and we are all obligated to respect the laws which prohibit assault against any person regardless of persuasion except in self defense. This hate crimes bill is causing a stir among religious people who believe the christian church leaders will be criminalized for preaching anti-homosexual behavior from the pulpit. The question becomes a matter of religious beliefs of the majority being protected by law or the minority populace having freedom of belief in homosexualty and protection of the law to exercise that right. For our Constitution to work for all people, both ideologies must be respected although there may never be agreement on many moral issues. Having said that, our Congress people need to be very careful that they do not legislate laws which infringe upon free speech especially when its the voice of religious leaders who get their support from the majority of its citizens. Majority rule isn’t a good solution. I hope we don’t have to gut our constitution to avoid tough compromises because this socialistic driven Whitehouse and Majority party would love to accomodate our forfeiture of freedom to voice our opinion.

  • FREDERIC

    EVERYONE SHOULD ENJOY THE SAME RIGHTS NOT SPECIAL RIGHTS FOR A FEW THAT NOT RIGHT OR FAIR OF COURSE NOW IN THIS PC WORLD WE HAVE TO LIVE IN IF YOU DO NOT AGREE WITH SOMEONE YOUR A RACIST OR A GAY BASHER ITS HARD TO COMPREHEND IT WOULD SEEM A CERTAIN SEGMENT OF THE HUMAN RACE HAVE BETTER RIGHTS THAN OTHERS FOR INSTANCE A BLACK CAN MAKE JOKES ABOUT WHITE PEOPLE OR CALL THEM REDNECKS OR CRACKERS AND A FEW MORE SLURS AND ITS EVEN DONE ON TV THE RADIO SONGS BUT FLIP THAT AND MAKE THE BLACK PERSON THE BRUNT OF THE SLUR AND YOU HAVE A REAL PROBLEM ON YOUR HANDS NOW SAY WHAT YOU WANT OF ME BUT IF YOUR HONEST WITH YOURSELF YOU KNOW IT TO BE A FACT I HAVE HEARD GAY PEOPLE MAKE FUN OF STRAIT PEOPLE BUT TURN THAT AROUND AND SAY A JOKE ABOUT A GAY PERSON AND AGAIN YOU HAVE A REAL PROBLEM WHAT HAS HAPPENED IN THIS COUNTRY IS A REAL BAD DOUBLE STANDARD AND THATS A PROBLEM THE BOTTOM LINE IS THERE WILL ALWAYS BE INDIFERANCES IN HUMANS AND NO ONE IS FREE FROM IT . AND IT WILL BE THAT WAY NO MATTER HOW MANY LAWS YOU PASS YOU KNOW DO NOT INSULT SOME ONE BUT PEOPLE HAVE BECOME TO THIN SKINED AND THE REASON FOR THAT IS PEOPLE OF LATE HAVE BEEN TAUGHT THAT THEY ARE SOMETHING SPEACIAL WENT IN FACT NO ONE IS MORE SPEACIAL THEN THE NEXT PERSON ON THIS PLANET BOTTOM LINE IS NO ONE IS THE STRIPS ON THE CATS PJS AND PEOPLE HAD BETTER START TEACHING THEIR CHILDREN JUST THAT FACT BECAUSE OVER THE YEARS TEND TO ACT LIKE THEY ARE THEIR OWN LITTLE GOD AND YOU KNOW WHAT ITS TO LITTLE AND TO LATE TO CHANGE IT BUT DO NOT WORRY WHEN THE ALMIGHTY COMES AT THE 2ND ADVENT HE IS GOING TO SHOW ALL OF US JUST WHAT WE REALLY ARE .GOD BLESS THE SAVED FREDERIC

  • FREDERIC

    I AM A CONSERVATIVE BUT I DO NOT PRETEND TO BE I AM

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