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Condescending Biden, Collected Ryan And A Continuing Horse Race

October 12, 2012 by  

Condescending Biden, Collected Ryan And A Continuing Horse Race

Following President Barack Obama’s assertion that he lost the first Presidential debate to Republican Mitt Romney because he was too polite, it appears as though the Democratic Party told Joe Biden that he needed to carry a decidedly “no more Mister Nice Guy” attitude to the Vice Presidential debate on Thursday.

A few dozen snickers, interruptions and condescending “look here, little boy” moments directed at Republican Vice Presidential nominee Paul Ryan later, and Biden succeeded at one thing during the debate: emboldening Democratic voters. Despite Biden’s lively performance, Ryan offered a portrait of someone who could calmly defend Romney’s proposals and firmly point out where the Obama Administration has failed, appealing to Republicans and undecided voters alike.

Biden, famous for his foot-in-mouth moments, likely left many people watching the event in hopes of catching one of the Vice President’s verbal missteps disappointed; the gaffe-prone politico managed to keep his comments clean. Ryan was also able to avoid any verbal missteps, and pundits appear to agree that his first nationally televised debate performance was a resounding success.

“I know you’re under a lot of duress to make up for lost ground,” Ryan said to Biden at one point referencing the President’s poor debate performance last week as the reason the Vice President rudely interrupted him during the showdown.

When Biden attempted to take a cheap shot at the Republican ticket by bringing up Romney’s now infamous “47 percent” remarks, Ryan downplayed the controversy and issued a scathing rebuke of his opponent saying: “As the Vice President very well knows, the words don’t always come out of your mouth the right way.”

Though debate moderator ABC News foreign correspondent Martha Raddatz attempted to coax specificity from both candidates, they largely stuck to party line talking points throughout the night.  What did come as a surprise to many pundits watching the debate was the candidates’ heavy focus on foreign policy. The Obama Administration has attempted to avoid the topic in recent weeks in the wake of disastrous Afghan attacks on U.S. soldiers and the terrorist assault on the American consulate in Benghazi, Libya.

“What we are watching on our TV screens is the unraveling of the Obama foreign policy, which is making the world more chaotic and us less safe,” Ryan said, seizing the issues to reinforce a Romney assertion that Obama foreign policy is making the United States a weak world power.

Criticizing the Obama Administration on the Libya attacks, Ryan issued a handful of critiques on Obama foreign policy that Biden could do little to defend.

“It took the President two weeks to acknowledge that this was a terrorist attack,” Ryan said.

“Look, if we’re hit by terrorists, we’re going to call it for what it is: a terrorist attack. Our ambassador in Paris has a Marine detachment guarding him. Shouldn’t we have a Marine detachment guarding our ambassador in Benghazi, a place where we knew that there was an al-Qaida cell with arms?” he went on.

The Vice President’s rebuttal admitted foreign policy mistakes while making promises for the future.

“I can make absolutely two commitments to you and all the American people tonight. One, we will find and bring to justice the men who did this. And secondly, we will get to the bottom of it; and whatever – wherever the facts lead us, wherever they lead us, we will make clear to the American public, because whatever mistakes were made will not be made again,” Biden said.

In discussing a full troop withdrawal from Afghanistan by 2014, Biden declared that the Obama Administration would stick to the schedule no matter what and said that the Afghans would fulfill their responsibility to providing proper security in the country until the U.S. military leaves.

“We are leaving. We are leaving in 2014. And in the process we’re going to be saving over the next 10 years another $800 billion,” Biden said.

Ryan was less willing to call 2014 a concrete withdrawal date, saying that it was imperative that the United States not lose gains made over the past decade in the region by leaving too hastily.

Biden attempted to capitalize on American weariness about further Mideast conflict by painting the Romney/Ryan foreign policy plan as a hawkish guarantee of more ground wars in the region in coming years. He accused the Republicans of loose talk with regard to Syria and said that Republicans would put the country’s dictator, Bashar Assad, in a position that made U.S. conflict with the nation unavoidable.

Ryan denied that there were plans to put American forces in Syria to stabilize the nation, but doubled down on tough talk about the dangers of allowing Iran to acquire nuclear weapon capabilities. He said that the Obama Administration’s sanctions on the country have been too weak and put the Iranians four years closer to their goal of nuclear armament.

When pressed by Raddatz for a precise plan to eliminate the Iranian nuclear threat, Ryan was largely mum. Political pundits speculate that the candidate’s silence was likely necessary to avoid an answer that would be unpopular with Americans tired of fighting in the Mideast: a military attack on Iranian nuclear sites.

When the candidates talked about the defense budget, Ryan denied the much-publicized claim that a Romney Administration would add $2 trillion to the military budget over the course of the next decade (which the Romney Budget does advocate). Ryan said, however, that Romney would simply not allow the kind of automatic military spending cuts for which the Obama Administration was prepared.

Biden rebutted that the military Joint Chiefs of Staff had no issue with the cuts and were in fact “in favor of a smaller, leaner military.”

The Vice President capitalized on criticism from economic policy wonks who say the Romney/Ryan budget proposals contain math that doesn’t exactly add up.

Ryan said that the Romney tax plan closes enough loopholes in the tax code to provide for an across-the-board tax cut for Americans. He attempted to drive home the point that the Obama/Biden plan would raise taxes on the middle class and small businesses making more than $250,000 a year.

“There aren’t enough rich people and small businesses to tax to pay for their spending,” he said. “Watch out, middle class. The tax bill’s coming for you.”

Biden protested that the Romney plan was “not mathematically possible.” In defense, Ryan invoked John F. Kennedy’s tax plan, which accomplished some of the things that the Romney/Ryan plan would if implemented.

Ending the exchange, Biden used a debate trick and interrupted Ryan with the quip: “Oh. Now you’re Jack Kennedy.”

For what it lacked in specific answers, the Vice Presidential debate made up for in vitriol with the two men constantly at the throats of one another’s policy. Following the event, polls indicated something of a tie in the debate with preference for the candidates split mostly along party lines.

In a CNN poll following the debate, 48 percent of respondents said Ryan won; 44 percent chose Biden. A poll by CBS claimed Biden had 50 percent preference and Ryan 31 percent.

Pundits say the debate and following polling results indicate that the election is becoming more and more a Presidential horse race that will likely boil down to a photo finish.

Sam Rolley

Staff writer Sam Rolley began a career in journalism working for a small town newspaper while seeking a B.A. in English. After learning about many of the biases present in most modern newsrooms, Rolley became determined to find a position in journalism that would allow him to combat the unsavory image that the news industry has gained. He is dedicated to seeking the truth and exposing the lies disseminated by the mainstream media at the behest of their corporate masters, special interest groups and information gatekeepers.

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  • FreedomFighter

    Biden was a nasty liar on stage in the debate, its about time he retired.

    Laus Deo
    Semper Fi

  • Doc Sarvis

    Biden did a good job championing the middle class (masses).

  • Warrior

    “plugs” is a medical marvel. He’s going to be great in his upcoming commercials for hair loss solutions and new dentures. Too bad oblamacare won’t cover those. Gubmint types receive those “perks” seeing as they’re in the spotlight so much.

  • Norma Phillips

    I think Paul Ryan did an excellent job, considering the fact that he had a man beside him who acted like a laughing bafoon. Biden lost my respect last night because of his rude behavior. Very un-becoming, especially for a VP of this United States. Ryan was well informed about the issues considering he’s a young candidate and Biden has been around WAY TOO LONG.

    • Karolyn

      At least Biden came off as human. Ryan looked like a smarmy, grinning weasel ready to strike.

      • Justin

        Arrogant, rude, condescending…you have skewed view of what it means to be human.

      • Doc Sarvis

        It appears that suddenly the conservatives have a thin skin.

      • APN

        Doc said: it appears that suddenly the conservatives have a thin skin.

        Actually I think Biden presented himself as the very shallow thinking hot headed arrogant fool he is.

        I also think Ryan presented himself in a calm, intelligent, respectful and professional manner and that is a reflection of someone capable of LEADERSHIP and solving ADULT problems. Given that, we can leave the daycare issues with the dems. That’s what they do best, correct?

      • Kinetic1

        “Ryan presented himself in a calm, intelligent, respectful and professional manner and that is a reflection of someone capable of LEADERSHIP and solving ADULT problems.”

        Even if I agreed with your view of Ryan’s performance, you can’t get away from the fact that he failed to show any proof that the Romney/Ryan proposals wold work. In fact, tonight was the first time that he or Romney told the truth about their “20% across the board” tax cut: they don’t have any answers.

        “ we can lower tax rates across the board. Now, here’s why I’m saying this. What we’re saying is, here’s the framework…””…what we’re saying is, lower tax rates 20 percent, start with the wealthy, work with Congress to do it…”

        Translation; We got into trouble with the middle class when I (Ryan) was honest about all the drastic cuts we planned to make, so now our plan is to cut taxes 20% and force Congress to figure out haw to make up for the lost revenues. And when the middle class complains we’ll point at the Democrats in Congress and say “Hey, they agreed with these cuts!” Our plan is to give the wealthy another huge break and pass the buck when things get worse.

        Now that’s “LEADERSHIP and solving ADULT problems.”

      • s c

        K, do you expect to pass ANY of your English classes? At this rate, you’ll be taking remedial English for the rest of your utopian life. Is it do to what you drink, or is there a special “food” that you pig out on to get and remain so D U H ?
        If clueless isn’t your middle name, it should be. Pathetic.

      • Karolyn

        If a conservative came across the way Biden did, he would be lauded as being a good ole’ down-to-earth guy.

      • Kinetic1

        Did you have a point to make? Any substantive argument to offer?
        “Is it do to what you drink, or is there a special “food” that you pig out on to get and remain so D U H ?”
        Is this a critique of my assessment of Ryan’s “plan” or were you referring to a couple of typos in my post? (By the way, it’s “due” to, not “do”.) To paraphrase Mr. Ryan, if you have nothing to attack but my intelligence, it only highlights the fact that you don’t have a reasonable argument to make.

        I know it hurts to have the Romney/Ryan “plan” exposed as nothing but another empty page, but Ryan said it himself: “What we’re saying is, here’s the framework”. An empty frame with no details and no proof that the frame can stand. Oh, that’s right, Ryan claimed “Six studies have guaranteed — six studies have verified that this math adds up…” Well let’s look at those “6 studies”. They turn out to be a 15-page document by Harvey S. Rosen at Princeton University’s Griswold Center for Economic Policy Studies that the author calls a “working paper,” three blog-posts, one op-ed and one Romney campaign white paper. 5 unproven documents that only a 3rd grader would call “studies” and a “working paper” that doesn’t even make a strong case for the plan. No wonder this man is gaining a reputation as “Lie’n Ryan”

      • Nobody’s Fool

        Karolyn, I think you meant to describe what you saw in the mirror when you got up–smarmy, grinning weasel getting ready to strike. Pity your husband…oh wait you have probably been liberated and have no husband…unless you’re “married” to a woman, as your Great Muslim Leader has given his blessing to. Please, take your kool-aid and go to some commie website where you will fit right in.

  • Karolyn

    Why wasn’t anything mentioned about the abortion issue, when Biden said he does not force his beliefs on others.

    • APN

      Well Karolyn, once again Biden lied. Just like you PROGS, he does in FACT force his beliefs on other people through this dumb tax code we have, as well as, ODUMBOCARE, etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc. He does it through GOVERNMENT POWER.


      Well, like most liberals, he asserts himself as someone of HIGH MORAL character that has all these great concerns for his fellow man, however, he gives less than 1% of his earnings to charity. In contrast, Romney gives about 20%!


      That is Romney’s money not the TAX PAYERS money stolen through GOVERNMENT FORCES!!!!!

      Liberals are the world’s greatest advocates of taking money from one and giving it to another, correct?

      Ryan missed a great opportunity last night by explaining to ODUMBO Jr. that the Christian doctrine does not ADVOCATE collectivism, as in marxism/socialism/communism, it does however advocate individual choices in life, as in, one should give to others as their heart leads them to do. NOT MANDATED BY DUMB GOVERNMENT SOCIAL PROGRAMS…….as in 16 TRILLION IN DEBT with kids coming out of our public schools dumber than a box of rocks!

      • Karolyn

        It would be nice to know just who Romney gives to. Now, I know he gives to the Mormon Church; but I wouldn’t be surprised if that is it. Mormons only help Mormons.

      • http://none Claire

        Karolyn–don’t you know by now that the right wing never lies? So much garbage and no solutions.

      • Vigilant

        Karolyn, look before you leap.

        “Two tenets of humanitarian aid define LDS Charities: 1) One hundred percent of every dollar donated is used to help those in need without regard to race, religion, or ethnic origin, and 2) LDS Charities helps people attain self-sufficiency so they can be self-reliant long after LDS Charities departs.”

      • Thinking About

        Vigilant, it sounds like Carolyn is stating a fact the Mormon church has its own internal welfare system and it does not include others. Like Romney said, the 47% does mean something to him.

    • JeffH

      Karolyn, obviously you weren’t watching or listening to the debate. Both Biden and Ryan talked about their beliefs as it relates to the abortion issue and also their respective platforms on the issue.

      Also, you critisized Ryan as coming off as “smarmy, grinning weasel ready to strike.”
      Can I suppose you also believe Biden conducted himself with the utmost of charm and resect?

      It was a terrible debate and Joe Biden made sure of it. Like a bullying attack dog he interuppted Ryan over 80 times in 1-1/2 hours…he tried to bully the moderator and laughed, hissed, constant interupptions and pissed through the whole debate. Joe Biden has no class. He did his very best to muddy this debate with arrogance, rudeness and condescention. His goal was to distract and interrupt Paul Ryan’s thought process and to Ryan’s credit he managed to stay somewhat on track despite the efforts of Biden. Biden’s constant smirking, eye rolling, and smug attitude, especially in dual screen comparisons to Ryan’s ernestness, distracted from anything the Vice President said. But, Biden did succeed in getting Ryan to play in Joe’s game just a litlle bit. That’s what he was there for.

      This debate was one of the worst, most childish examples of playground antics which seems to be the norm for anything related to Obama. After close scrutiny and looking past all of the partisan claims of “I won”, this debate will be considered “meaningless” in the race.

      • JeffH

        After close scrutiny and looking past all of the partisan claims of “I won”, this debate will be considered “meaningless and pathetic” by non-partisans.

      • Karolyn

        I just meant there is nothing in Rolley’s article.. I would have thought he could have gotten some mileage out of the abortion issue.

      • kathy c

        Absolutely right, Jeff!! Both Obama and Biden are very sophomoric. I know 12 and 13 year old boys with much better manners and class. “you can’t make a silk purse out of a sow’s ears”

      • JeffH

        kathy c, how right you are. I grew up with three brothers(4 boys total) and we gave up all of that childish “uh uh’s, it’s not my fault and the he did it too’s” when we got into high school. Terrible part is the adults that buy into these games.

    • s c

      Thanks for reminding me, Komrade ‘k.’ I thought it was very revealing when Biden said that Jews and Muslims are :”other” Christians. In the case of Muslims, they don’t need any ‘help’ from Motormouth Joe. Their religious “scholars” have marvelous ways of interpreting and reinterpreting words and ideas.
      It makes it unnecessary to be for or against abortion. At ANY point in a Muslim’s life, they can be aborted for ANY reason. That includes women, gays and young girls who see and recognize the difference between crap and apple butter. So what do you want to be when you grow up, Komrade? We already have an idea as to WHAT you are.
      If you’re not careful, someone will accuse you and your warped utopian buds of engaging in a WAR against women. You can see it almost any day now on TV (compassionate MURDER?)..
      You might think about moving to Iran and converting. You’ll get used to the changes – or die trying. Ah, the JOYS of CHOICE!

    • s c

      Komrade ‘k,’ sooner or later, you’ll have to live in the real world. Biden’s “stance’ amounts to self-absolution. You and your ilk have been waging the REAL War on Women for many years. That assumes that you also know that you and your ilk have been waging a very successful War on Babies. Follow the money, komrade.
      If abortion serves a urpose in a civilized society, then WHY do the vermin at Planned NonParenthood get so filthy, stinking RICH via state-sanctioned MURDER? What kind of monster makes money and gets rich by killing BABIES?
      You need to thank God that you survived the abortion lottery, komrade. Maybe Santa will bring you a functioning CONSCIENCE for Christmas.

  • Dobber 1029

    Biden on Bee Bee Netanyahu, last night…. The Pres has met Bee Bee (my friend for 39 years) more than anyone and has had phone calls to him, blah blah blah……That’s exactly why OB needed to MEET with Bee Bee in NYC to SHOW support for an ally and is what a leader does, NOT phone it in…Sometimes the public (here in the USA and more importantly WORLD) requires a visual reference. For cripes sake he was IN NYC?? and didn’t have to travel anywhere but across town… OB refuses to show the muslim brotherhood, Russia (his buddy Putin) and China that he actuallly meets and greets an ALLY and not just extend an invite to the MB stop by for a visit sometime… He’s hides better than anybody there is when there is a conflict…He’s a “stealth” president…except when it comes to campaigning….He’s way over his head to lead and what has he ever lead besides organizing community stuff…..(I use stuff the same way Biden did last night)

  • paladin

    Biden stole the show! I’m a 20 year, registered Independent and I believe that Biden did indeed steal the show…but for all the wrong reasons! I think he thought he was successfully thwarting Ryan’s comments by being interruptive, laughing, smirking, being smug, rude, and even rolling his eyes, etc., but he was actually making a circus of the debate, and a first class fool of himself! He distracted attention away from important answers from Ryan, which I wanted to hear, and it was obvious that the moderator was working against Mr. Ryan as well last night. At one point, Biden was actually laughing while Ryan was talking about the attack on the Libyan embassy. How is this a laughing matter, Mr Vice-President! You, Sir, are a buffoon… and your behavior was a disgrace and a bad example to children who are raised NOT TO INTERRUPT! You and your amateur boss have lost my vote!

    • Karolyn

      If you’re not used to politics by now, I don’t know where you’ve been. I will say, however, that it is better than it was back in the earlier days of this country into the early 1900s. And, it is more civil than in other countries, where they have actual physical fights.

    • JeffH

      paladin(Richard Boone?), you pretty much nailed it! I disagree with your assessment of the moderator…I thought she was fair and did a pretty good job under the circumstances.

      How ’bout ole’ joe worrying about getting equal time…constantly asking for it. Ended up he got more time than Ryan did by about a minute. Joe acted like a childish and his conduct was more like a playground bully than an adult…this is Obama’s vice president. What a joke he is.

    • Gladys Lippy

      Biden is a jackass and we could almost hear him braying at the debate.

    • Claudio Roque

      I agree with you. This Vice Prez iws a STUPID CLOWN and the circus will gain if they employ him.

    • DarwinStarks

      Amen! and Amen!!

    • DK

      Do you know that JOPA means ass in Russian?
      If you knowingly got this title for yourself – good for you.
      But if you really have some Russian roots ask people who came from there what they escaped from.
      Comrades, we are almost back where all my family escaped frome 35 year ago.

      • Wil

        Sad that with the revisionist history taught these days,these kids come out thinking that was a utopia destroyed by imperialist America.

    • Dr Sir Richard Wright-Hogeland

      I agree totally – disgusting – both the Vice president and the moderator -I would add the debarte was pathetic – the question were childish – a hard question – a basic question – why do either of you believe – there should be a graduated tax – a head tax is fair and reasonable – a % tax is giving the store away – but al least it is general – a graduate tax is innane – does no one understand – it gives the politician – the right – the ability to divide up the people – cut the pie anyway they wish – create a majority of voters for their side – in other words buy votes – which in turn causes the opposing party to do the same in order to be elected – ergo an entitlement is built into the sytem – which we are stuck with for evver – well since they are both politicians – why would they say anything – but a good moderator – one that was neutral could have asked the question
      Another question would have been – when is the USA going to stop playing Empire – the policeman of the world – you notice if the nation we don’t like is large – we do nothing – but all of the small country we attempt to impose the worst type of government on them Democracy with majority rule – I had a professor at Harvard Law School that said, “Everty Country has the government it deserves” the people at any time can throwgh out a government that they don’t like – we don’t have a clue to what the people of any other Nation wish to have as their government

      Dr Richard Wright Hogeland

    • Sandra

      Truthfully, I thought Biden thought Biden was rehearsing for a SNL skit! Is that guy really our VP and more importantly do we want to reelect that goof?????

    • Charles

      Biden smiled more than a jackass eating briers, and he heehawed twice as much as a scared jackass! My mother always said, “people who laugh all the time are disingenuous or just plain nuts!” Biden’s a combination of both!
      If the debate was for the most obnoxious, rude, ridiculous, unprofessional, and offensive politician ever, then Biden won hands down! Come to think of it, the jackass symbol for the Democrats really fits, doesn’t it.

      • kathy c

        hahaha! Good reply. I think Biden blew his wad on ever becoming President. Horrors!!

    • unique

      “This is politics. If it offends you get out of politics.

    • Susan Atwood

      Bravo to you.

    • Guest

      You are absolutely correct. Paladin.
      Biden was more than a buffoon, he was disgraceful.
      His sneering, and smirking and constant interruptions were so irritating that I had to finally turn off the TV. The moderator was no better. I thought a moderator was supposed to stop such childish behaviour but this woman did not do her duty. She allowed it and Ryan could barely get a word through the noise. As a consequence he came off calm but we could not hear his thoughts.
      A good name for such a disrespectful person and liar.

    • Hank Brandt

      You are so right THANK YOU

    • Marie

      I absolutely agree with you!!!!!!!!
      As far as I can see, Mr. Ryan did just as he should have, but “Joe” was a sickening JOKE!

    • Gerhardt Meyer

      Paladin, you could not have said it better. However, common sense does not seem a
      strong suit to those who accept the lies of our VP.

    • Mike Reyn

      thankyou its called manners apparently his parents never taught him those in a discussion he doesnt take his job very serious. When does he open in vegas him and harry ried that would be a good act not

      • kathy c

        You could also toss in Pelosi!!!

    • Justine Votaw

      I am an independent also and I too wanted to hear Ryan’s views which were drowned out by Biden’s nonsense. I was disappointed in the debate. I still think Ryan won.

    • Karl H Harms

      I agree with your comment 100%.I grew up in Germany doing world war 2. Things are not as bad here yet but they are certainly not good under Obama and Biden.

    • Edwin Lawrence

      You were dead on the mark..He was an embarrassment as Vice President and lacked the very minimum of respect to Mr Ryan who as the gentleman he is- never interrupted the bafoon..Ed

    • Carol M Kite

      Thank you, young but very wise person for your right-on opinion in a nation of young persons who often seem oblivious to anything to do with gov’t/politics. At 76, I’m scared of a 2nd Obama term, his plans are Nazi-like, but when the mainstream media doesn’t inform the public of his crimes, what chance he’ll win? Case in point, the deaths in Libya that they’re trying to cover up, Hillary guilty too. Nixon was thrown out over Watergate and NO ONE DIED!

    • Patsy Sowers

      Amen! You said it all.

    • G.D. Wollesen

      The V.P.’s TV acting was hilarious, to Biden and the lady jerk moderator. Not to me. Biden was a JACKASS, DUMB IDIOT and A WORTHLESS STUPID FOOL! His antics only proved why Obobblehead chose him as the running mate. A CIRCUS FOOL! Obobblehead needs a fall guy to cover his stupidity. Biden is nearly “Brain Dead”.

      Red Skelton was a better comic than Biden could ever be!

    • kathy c

      Paladin, your assessment is the most articulate of any I have read. I totally agree.

    • Rudy

      Paladin: It needs to be said that Biden didn’t MAKE a fool of himself in the debate, he simply SHOWED that ‘s what he IS! If America reelects this buffoonery team, then those who voted for them will deserve what they get! But my prayer is that God will deliver us from this pair and their minions and please not allow us to have four more years of this malevolent destruction!

    • wheels

      Koodos to you for seeing Obiden was using tactics that made him looks as though he felt the whole debate was nothing but a joke. Between his actions and nobama’s INactions, they have proven to me that they DO NOT belong to stay in OUR WHITE HOUSE!

    • Little John

      Oh you got it right on that one Paladin (have gun will travel) loved it….. Biden is a fool, but his boss is very smart…….. and we must not forget that….. obama should of been impeached a long time ago for his actions and his lies….. obama has violated the CONSTITUTION OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA so many times it is unreal…. this is a tyrant who is running our nation on executive order, by passing our checkes and balances within our government and is criminal in nature…. our government is sponsering the muslim brotherhood in Egpyt,,, can you believe it…. the worlds worst terrorist group ever… and we even have some muslim brotherhood in our Home Land Security,,,, in top positions… are you scared yet… and President Obama is behind all of it and he makes no bones about it…….. and if you ever wondered why obama’s school records have been sealed…… his passport records…… because it shows he is not eligible to be president in the first place…. natural born citizen,,, both parents must be US citizens, his father was not a citizen of the United States of America. When the heck are the people of this great country going to wake up… there has been numerous attempts by the Democrates to amend the Constitution on the natural born citizens aspect, like try 9 attempts………… they could not do it so they just sealed his records, all of them, no one has access to who he is, where he came from… he is a fraud and the American people are going to suffer for a long time to come… to brake the american dream is to TAX the people until they have nothing more to give…. and that is what he is doing…… destroy the US financially……. look around folks… are you better off today than you were 4 years ago, I’m not and most of my friends are not either……

    • Wil

      He was just using the SOP for the left.When you have no facts,laugh,mock and ridicule.And if that doesn’t work,play the race card and blame Bush.

    • http://gmail kewpiedoll

      how can you condem biden on interupting when thats all robme did and at least Biden has a beautiful smile and is smart as a whip and that ryan looks like a bug-eyed goon.

    • Marian

      I am disgusted with Biden’s embarrassing antics during the debate. He obviously wanted to distract the audience away from the real issues that he was incapable of debating.

    • Marilyn Share

      Amen brother!!!

    • john

      you sir don’ t know what u are talking about . biden wasn’t laughing at ryan or the subject he was astonished at the lies that rommney an ryan make up about democrats just to win the election . its all stratagy an all of you know it. on both sides.

      • wheels

        Sorry John, but the Demoncats are the superior and have no equal when it comes to lies! If they told the truth it would be telling about failure after failure and the raising of taxes (hidden in nobamacare), I could go on and on including lies about Bengahzi, real job numbers, how wages have dropped and not increased, Chysler is only a success because of the buyout by Fiat, Chevrolet is putting workers on furlough (THE CHEVY VOLT IS A DISASTER, thank you mr. nobama for your insistence that it be made) and still on the brink of going belly-up…………..Make sure you know of what you speak before you put fingers to keyboard.

  • jopa

    Huge win for Biden last night up against Lyin Ryan..Ryan did not give any more answers than Romney did in his debate.I think the real clincher for Biden was Medicare and Social Security when he looked straight into the the cameras and asked who do you trust more on these issues.Vouchers and privatizing Social Security are very scary to seniors as they should be.If SS was put in the stock market when Bush and Ryan wanted to do it before, it wouldn’t exist today with the volatility of the market.Way to go Joe.

    • JeffH

      …and pigs can fly…

      • Mike in MI

        JeffH -
        “…and pigs can fly…”(????)
        Oh-h-h…well…I’m not sure bout that one. Obama manages to get off the ground fairly often. ‘Course, it usually requires Air Force 1 and a host of press “corpse” supporters for suckcess.
        But then, too, this incarnation of ODumbo does tend to make him try to avoid storms with windy environments (like the Dumbocrat’s CONvention). I heard something about him generates too much of an airfoil effect. That’s why he seldom returns to the Windy City: his loafers get a little light and then he begins a lift-off.

        As for Smilin’ Joe, it’s REAL clear now why the Dhimmikrauts required that they not be included in Oblama-lama-ding-dongCare. The maintenance on that grille of his must equal the national deficit. If his pile of plastic implants ever came face to face with a Death Panel he’d check out the death of “gums galore” …terminal pyorrhea. He’d look like Jeff Dunham’s character, Achmed the terrorist. (I trust that won’t insult Jeff. But, hell, Biden-his-time already looks just like his other puppet, the grumpy little old guy. ((If you don’t believe me go back and review any of Oblamelessones’ Strait of disUnion addresses to our Legislators – especially the one with Smilin’ Nasty Pelosis there, too. Talk about a couple of donkey grins!!!)

    • Vigilant

      Jopa attended the Wasserman-Schultz College of Goebbels University.

    • Thinking About

      I noticed Ryan sure drank a lot during the debate, perhaps a dry mouth, normally a good indication someone knows they are not telling the truth. Ryan does not have any game in this election and it shows. We have a plan but we will determine what it might be in the future, well that does not sell to me.

    • kathy c

      Wow!! You must have watched a debate of two different people!!!! Even my Democrat friends, which I like to keep because we have good debates, thought Biden was rude, bombastic, and made an embarrassing fool out of himself. He certainly did not follow debate protocol and the moderator should have set him straight.

      • ODB62

        If you want respect during a debate, tell the truth. Just like Mittens, Ryan couldn’t tell the truth if it was on a billboard in front of him. “Dry mouth”, each time he made a statement he had to take another sip of water. He even had to reach for the pitcher and refill his glass. They can’t let us in on their PLAN, or give us the MATH because there isn’t a plan nor does the math add up.

        The reason we are where we are right now is Congress and if you don’t know this, you aren’t paying attention to anything real. You are all fighting over silly things and buying into the hype. Change Congress and we can change our United States. The suggestions from the office of the President have to be voted on and passed into law by the Congress. This is where the real power is and always has been. Without these people working together we will remain in the same old mess we’ve been left with for the past 12 years. War on a Chinese credit card!

        Our economy is like vegetable plants, feed the roots, the plant grows, the crop is larger and the results are good. Feed the top of the plant and it burns up in the sun. With so much wealth (fertilizer) at the top, the economy can’t grow. Money goes uphill and crap runs downhill. The very rich are the only ones who don’t smell like crap right now and until Congress will ask them to pay a bit more in tax, the fertilizer will not make it to the roots of our economy. The money will end up back at the top anyway so why not let us use it as we pass it back up?

        • wheels

          Spoken like a true leech on society. You forget there is another way to riches other than sitting around the mailbox waiting for a government handout. 1) Have some pride in yourself and make GOOD choices. 2) Education even if you have to pay for it yourself. 3) Work your ass off. 4) Become a somebody on your own, with your own way of thinking and your own original ideas. If you are still reading my reply OBD62, you will have noticed all 4 of these steps have a main theme: you/yourself. Not a handout by the government. Now if that sounds like too much work for YOU, then I knw where you will end up and I’m sure the lazy liberals will welcome you with open arms and a vey little of the BIG money they plan to rip off from those that work for a living. And I don’t mean just the wealthy……because they are going to have to make EVERYONE pay to have just enough money to make it look good to the rest of the world to be able to keep borrowing……..until we go flat broke! Lots of luck on your future. With your way of thinking, you’re damn well going to need it.

  • Nan Tadler

    If Vice Presidential Candidate Judge Jim Gray had been included in the debate, today news commentators would be talking about Simpson-Bowles, having a balanced budget in 2013, repealing NDAA, bringing the troops home from Afghanistan, & other differences between the candidates. Instead they are talking about how may times the VP smiled or laughed. Let’s get Gary Johnson in the next two debates and start dealing with the issues.

    • wheels

      Nan I hate to say this, but voting for these two gentlemen is the same as voting for nobama. Neither have the perverbial chance of a snowball in…………….

  • http://google mike b.

    Biden was drunk. Acted like he just left happy-hour and drug the slut moderator (who had hussein obama at her wedding) with him from the local pub.

    • Kinetic1

      mike b,
      “Biden was drunk”
      Oh, I see you have been listening to the right wing talking heads. This is there talking point of the day. Biden made up for a lot of the ground lost during the Presidential debate, so they had to find a way to knock him back down. “Biden was drunk or high” seems to be their answer.

      As for the slut moderator (boy mike, don’t you show a lot of class!), Ms. RADDATZ is a respected journalist who was doing her job. Romney and Ryan have been making claims about their “plans” while offering up little or nothing to back them up. She knows this and did all she could to try and give us, the voters the information we need to make an informed decision. In the end she got Ryan to admit that there is no substance behind their tax plan other than ” lower tax rates 20 percent, start with the wealthy, work with Congress to do it…”. Give the wealthy another tax break and pass the buck when it comes time to pay.

      • momo

        Even if Biden “did make up ground”, which I doubt, nobody votes for vice-president!

    • Palin16

      Funny, I came to the same conclusion…it appeared to me Biden was drunk. Just the way a drunk laughs at something that’s not funny. His dentures were slipping also, but at least he has some, unlike Bawney Fwank. Time for him to go.

      • jopa

        I think Palin 61 and mikeb were drinking too much kool aid last night spiiked with elephant urine.

      • Kinetic1

        That laughing was the reaction of a man thinking “Does he really expect to get away with this?” every time Ryan spun his tall tales.

        Ryan: “President Obama [was] in New York City the same day Bibi Netanyahu is and he, instead of meeting with him, goes on … a daily talk show.”
        Obama was in New York Sept. 25 and Netanyahu was there Sept. 27.

        ““Was it a good idea to spend all this money on … windmills in China?”
        A Texas plan for a wind farm did involve buying hundreds of windmills from China, but Sen. Charles Schumer (D, NY) put a stop to it when he saw the windmills were coming from China.

        No medical professional on the medical panel – Lie. ““It took the president two weeks to acknowledge this was a terrorist attack.” Lie Both Medicare and Social Security are going broke. Lie, one after another. How can you not laugh at such a lying fool when he is supposed to be one of the parties great thinkers?

      • Palin16

        Big deal, how far is it from DC to NYC? Obummer is on record saying “I have to put up with Netanyahu everyday.”

      • Kinetic1

        The flight from DC to NYC is about 1 1/2 hours. Add to that the air time to fly the President to and from his flight, any potential driving time (depending on the meeting place) time to arrange security or both parties, etc. and it’s a pretty big deal.

        On September 25th, Abdullah II bin Al-Hussein, the King of Jordan was a guest on the Daily Show. Stewart made a joke about President Obama being busy with a visit to “WoopyGoldbergstan” then asked if the Presidents failure to make himself available was a matter of concern among other world leaders. King Abdullah II responded “Not that I heard, No. I think everyone is there preparing for their speeches and inside meetings with other leaders” So maybe we’re blowing this all out of proportion? “Most likely, probably.”

        I know, Abdullah II bin Al-Hussein is not our “closest and greatest ally in the Middle East”, but I think he is more likely to be in touch with the feelings of other world leaders than we.

    • Karolyn

      You obviously know nothing of Martha Radditz, who has spent the majority of her time over the last years in the mideast with the troops! She is a well-respected journalist, not like a Rush Limbaugh or the other talking heads who would not give up their comfy seats to go into the field.

      • http://none Claire

        Karolyn–Limbaugh is so brilliant, knows all, sees all, always correct- –why doesn’ t he run for POTUS?

      • Karolyn

        I know why, Claire. It doesn’t pay enough! :-)

      • Vigilant

        Karolyn once again comes up long on claims and short on facts, with “She is a well-respected journalist, not like a Rush Limbaugh or the other talking heads who would not give up their comfy seats to go into the field.”

        You might have stopped blathering long enough to do some research before you make such misrepresentations about Rush Limbaugh.

        You need to check out 110th Congress House Resolution, “Commending Rush Hudson Limbaugh III for his ongoing public support of American troops serving both here and abroad. Thanking Mr. Limbaugh for his relentless efforts to build and maintain troop morale through worldwide radio broadcasts and personal visits to conflict regions.”

        Limbaugh has raised MILLIONS of dollars for military charities.

        Raddatz has done NOTHING comparable to that.

      • s c

        Komrade ‘k,’ it sure is strange how ‘Dems’ are so good at giving Amerika ‘leaders’ who wouldn’t serve in the military for ANY reason. The best you and your kind can do is to give us geekoids like Kerry, who didn’t spend a full tour in Vietnam.
        WHY do you think Biden’s son found a reason to go into the military? Oh, D U H ! Biden junior is being groomed as yet another utopian politician. Sadly, he’s not a hardcore conservative so he could try and compensate for all the damage that Motormouth Joe has done to Amerika for so many years.
        How have you lived so long and managed to stay so CLUELESS, komrade k?

  • http://google mike b.

    Ratings were lowest ever. DRUNK BIDEN AND UGLY LADY MODERATOR TURNED AMERICAN PEOPLE OFF. Nobody wanted to see the two drunks and the ratings prove it.

    • Palin16

      Thanks for the info, mike. You’re right, I checked the ratings. All agreed much lower than the Sarah Palin- Biden debate in 2008.

    • Thinking About

      Pretty good you can see drunk in someone who does not drink, if you want and enjoy watching someone under the influence then Rush is your man, kinda like hime don’t you

  • Jeremy Leochner

    Personally I saw the debate as a draw. Mr. Biden I felt let his emotion get the better of him. I think he was trying to compensate for Obamas lack of drive in the first debate. But I think it would be fair to say he over compensated. I think both men made some god points. Though I fear Ryan may have stretched the truth a bit.-

    Though that is not to say the Vice President was entirely honest either.-

    All in all I saw a mark difference between the two men. Both seemed to be snipping at each other at times though I felt Ryan maintained a more dignified manner through out. Though I felt he more then Biden stretched the truth to try and make his point. And at the same time he offered little beyond criticizing the administration while offering little in terms of what he and Romney would do differently. I felt Biden provided more in the way of facts though as I said his emotion, demeanor and treatment of Ryan hurt his credibility and made me doubt the statements he was making. I felt it was informative. With respect to the vice president I am glad it is Obama and not him running for President. With respect to Mr. Ryan I feel I will still vote for Obama come November.

  • http://none Claire

    As far as I am concerned, it was a draw. No winner–I want exact details not a bunch of mumbo jumbo.

  • http://none Claire

    My Mother and Grandmother always said the Democrats are for the poor, the Republicans are for the rich. I have Conservative friends that think Ryan/Romney are scary. So who knows? Nothing is going to change.

  • jopa

    Romney seems to have an advance man to go ahead of him to find out what the local crowd wants to here and that’s the message he delivers when he gets there.The trouble with that is there are too many cameras today and he is always contradicting himself.The advance man idea is an old Bob Hope strategy he used in order to make his shows have a personal touch with his audience.He became very successful because of that.Romney’s only game plan is the Ryan plan and that is bad for seniors and the middle class.

  • http://google mike b.

    Kinetic1. After reading your post i think you are drunker than biden was. Biden should have been giving a breathilizer test before the debate. You should before you post.

  • http://google mike b.

    Karolyn, this woman was louder and more involved in the debate than the candidates. She is a classless dem hack. Candy Croiwley will show her how to calmly and professionaly conduct a debate on tue, This Hussein obama hack could also have brushed her hair maybe before shes on national tv.

    • Karolyn

      So sad that you have to even find fault with the minor players, especially if their women. Attack their looks, their weight, their voice. As long as they are perceived to be liberal, there has to be something wrong with them. Now, Ann Coulter, on the other hand – I’m sure you think she has class and is beautiful! Ha!

      • Vigilant

        Karolyn, you continually slide into that femiNazi mode, don’t you?

        For you, it’s OK to make ad hominem comments like “Ryan looked like a smarmy, grinning weasel ready to strike,” but when the tables are turned, you stalk off in high dudgeon.

        Time to take a personal inventory, Dearie.

      • JeffH

        Vig, K is and has always been a hypocrit…nothing will change that.

      • kathy c

        I may be mistaken, but weren’t you the one who called Ryan and swarmy weasel?

  • http://google mike b.

    After you liberal minions of hussein obama sober up we can hopefully have a intelligent conversation. Th only thing the vp did was sure up the thug union vote. Women and reasonble people all agree he was disrespectful and dumb, which we all knew before it began. The only advantage (women) was thrown away last night by the rude and intoxicated vp. Why didnt the great uniter vp use that great american phrase “they gonna put yall back in chains”. Can you imagine how drunk he will be on Nov. 7th when hes drowning his sarrows after he and hussein obama are booted out by the ameican people.

    • Jeremy Leochner

      Alright Mike I wish to have an intelligent conversation. My biggest issue with Ryan is I do not trust him. He has repeatedly fudged the truth to further his own campaign. I say this based on sources like

      And as for Mr. Romney my biggest issue is specifics. Mr. Romney when pressed during the first debate about what cuts to make only mentioned PBS. That aside he mentioned nothing else. So for me it sounds like he is asking for my vote while telling me that he will let me know what he plans to do after he is elected. And in the mean time it appears that his plan is to reduce tax rates across the board by 20 percent and yet make no spending cuts. So I am left to worry that our revenues will go down but our costs will remain the same, if not go up. Mr. Romney is a business man. He has spoken of his business experience often, he in some ways is running on it. Yet he treats our countries budget in a way no business man would ever treat a business.

      • JeffH

        What a laugh you are Jeremy. You don’t trust Ryan? How about “trust me” Joe Biden. A great number of his comments ended with “trust me I know”.

        For the most part, with very few exceptions, I don’t trust any politician and I certainly won’t take their word on a “trust me I know” basis.

      • Jeremy Leochner

        I never said I trust Joe Biden. I just point out the fact that according to more of Ryans comments were lies then Bidens. Not that it is okay for to lie. On the that note I point out why I do not trust Ryan. He has a track record, starting from the Republican convention, of lying.

        I never take a politician on a “trust me, I know” basis. Its one of the big reasons why I am not voting for Romney. He and Ryan seem to be basing their whole campaign around the message “Vote for us and we will tell you our plans once we are elected, trust us, we know what we are doing”.

      • kathy c

        Fore heavens’s sake, we need a business man, not a community organizer!! Do you trust Obama, who fooled (lied) the American Public into voting him in as President. Where is the transparency? How has he ended divisiveness and brought people together? Where is the hope? Why did he put a wedge in the spokes of racial relations? He has set racial relations back to the Jim Crow era!! What about all the bills that were supposed to go on the Internet (not invented by Al Gore) before being voted upon? Why does he slight our Allies and suck up to our enemies? We have a president who is better suited to be a talk show host. He’s had on the job training for 4 years, but has almost no experience. He’s either flitting off on vacation or playing golf, or appearing on some silly talk show (the View, Letterman). When anyone disaggrees with him he pouts like a 12 year old. My Jewish friends call him a JAP. He is the abosolute worst President we’ve ever had. If you want to live in a Marxist coutry, by all means vote for Oblamer. I hope you vote for Romney. If you can’t bring yourself to do that, please stay home on election day.

  • http://google mike b.

    Sorrows. So you idiot, childish libs see i corrected it.

  • Pat G

    No budget passed in three years. Runaway debt and no plan to reduce it. No attempt to use our energy resources. No work program for immigrants. No respect for others…..just shout down your opposition. It is time to vote America. Get out and vote.

  • Harold Olsen

    I never watch the debates because they are a waste of time. The candidates are not given enough time to actually give their views on the issues. They are rushed and because of this often say things that they don’t mean.

    From reports I’ve heard about the debates, Ryan was described as cool and collected while the word most used to describe Biden was “buffoon.” I saw some clips of the debate on HLN the next day and “buffoon” is a good description. He would throw up his arms every few minutes, roll his eyes or laughing about some serious issue. Even the reporters on liberal HLN criticized him. Their poll showed that Ryan won the the debate.

  • jozie jane

    A 19yr old girl Rocks for Romney (music video) pass it on!

    • Palin16

      Nikki Minaj also supports Romney.

      • http://none Claire

        Bruce Springsteen is campaigning for Obama in Ohio and Iowa.

  • Jeff

    Just watched it again. What a cranky old man.

  • JON

    Gee, what will you all have to whine about after the reelection of Obama and Biden?
    I’;m sure your small minds will think of something!

    • Citizenfirst

      A complete publicly rendered oath of office would be nice this time for starters.

    • kathy c

      Probably many of us will be thinking of what other country can we go live in?

      • wheels

        Just 2 questions kathy c: 1) Name one GOOD thing nobama/nobiden have done over the last 44 months to help U.S. of A’s economy that in the long run has not cost more jobs.
        2) Why has nobama seal his past from open disclosure…..what is he hiding?

  • HH


  • HH

    :) trying to sign up, forgot to click notify!

  • APN

    Yep! My only exception to what you just said is “Food Stamp” recipients, not middle class, because they have NO PLAN for the middle class and the current unemployment rate and economic indicators proves that fact. Not to mention another 15 MILLION people on food stamps since ODUMBO took office!

    The democrates are a DISASTOR and the past 4 years is stark evidence of that fact as well.

  • s c

    Komrade Einstein, is THIS the SAME Motormouth Biden who said that this administration has BURIED the middle class? Check it out, yutz. It’s DOCUMENTED! Once again, drugged-out utopian, you come to this website with your pants draped around your ankles. You’re consistent.
    As for the debate, if I ever saw 2 hacks ganged up on another person, THAT was the so-called debate last night. I wonder how much MONEY the “moderator” got for trying to interrupt ALMOST as often as did Motormouth Joe.
    Have a nice day, Komrade Putz. You get whatcha pay for, yahoo. You sure do have incredibly LOW standards for your heroes.
    Connect the dots. Obummer and Biden are DESTROYING the middle class. By the time you figure it out on your own, your new language will be Russian or Chinese. Twit,

  • s c

    Obviously, you don’t live in my area, komrade. Today, Motormouth Joe is being called the ‘Master Debater.’ It fits.
    Didn’t I see you make the same half-arsed remark in another topic today on Biden and the middle class? That makes you PREDICTABLE, komrade.
    By the way, the secret is OUT. Obummer and Biden have all but destroyed the middle class. So, how old were you when your family disowned you?

  • Doc Sarvis

    You folks are very amusing when you get all frothy.

  • Karolyn

    Yeah, Doc, s c is particularly frothy today!

  • Robin Donald DeVallon

    Wouldn´t it be nice if we all started Chino or Ruski talk classes so we´ll all be prepaired for the big jolt or any similar…. It´s that most of our USNavy officers are pretty versed in the linguas already.. so you lazy bums can stay couchpots some bit longer….
    Don´t get up in despair…. finish your 14 oz coolaid or Coors first… then take a lasting hot or cold shower… motorbrush your dentals…. step out the back door and breath in teh damp manur air…. smashingly beautiful…. you bet…. Donah..//

    PS:- as for lingua… I outclassed most pundits as being too “nicah”…. but… as they say:- there are Gods and Angels….. which I am NOT !!

  • Robin Donald DeVallon

    I really, really regret making too many typos…. Donah..//

  • Thinking About

    Up against Lyin’ Ryan who exhibited his need to wet a dry mouth from his lying remarks I did not see Biden drinking throughout the debate, so there you go again.

  • s c

    FreedomFighter, what people need to admit is the FACT that losers like Motormouth Biden have much to do with Amerika’s economic, political and leaderless mess. These days, it’s hard enough finding even ONE leader. Whatever else Biden is, he’s NO leader.
    When it comes to career politicians, they have much in common with rotting fish. That is, it doesn’t take long for them to stink up the place.
    They add NOTHING in the form of solutions. In particular, Biden is the ‘Dem’ version of a certain yahoo from Arizona [McCain]. At what point do such people not understand that they’ve been in Washington for WAY too long and they need to get OUT of that cesspool. Quite often, a career politician is also a career criminal. In Biden’s case, it proves once again that some people have NO standards for themselves OR their so-called “leaders.”
    Biden is an accident waiting to happen. The moderator was bad enough in that debate. She had little or no control over Biden, and it didn’t take long to realize that the debate would be a twisted, three-ring circus, with Biden as the #1 CLOWN.
    If you listened to the media ho bags, you’d think Biden was a world-class authority on everything, when in fact he’s just another loser who should have been kicked out of office decades ago. What the hell is wrong with people who think that having one’s head rammed up into that ‘special place’ makes them smarter or that they can solve problems?
    Biden CREATES problems. The idea that he may or may not be entitled to a whopping retirement just makes it worse. How often do you think Motormouth looks into a mirror and sees himself as a filthy RICH twit who needs be be TAXED so he can ‘share’ his vast wealth and have it redistributed?

  • JON

    He can’t retire yet. He’ll have four more years as V.P.!

  • Harold Olsen

    And a few months ago Obama said his work was only half finished. Just think what a disaster this country will be if he is allowed to finish that job!!!

  • kathy c

    You’re right on, APN. Oblamer has 4 years tenure and 2 weeks worth of experience. Time to move on the someone who has a successful track record.

  • Mike in MI

    s c
    On Saturday I heard a practiced debater and legal authority, a Philadelphia ex-prosecutor, say in regard to Jungle Joe’s debate tactics that interruptions and outbursts are a well known way of insinuating confusion and dissimulation into any discussion. It is used especially effectively by those who know its (sneering, gesticulating, deprecating comments and inappropriate laughter) effects on an audience. The tactic’s desired effect on undisciplined listeners’ is to break the train of logic in their minds so they miss the point being made in the issue at hand, primarily. Secondarily, they are useful to the perpetrator when he has little or no good retort or is unprepared to respond so as to favorably position his side in the debate.
    So Jungle Joey’s well practiced, appalling antics were used to draw attention to himself, away from Ryan’s delivery (thus, wiping it from many listener’s minds), and also to better position points he was about to make.
    Since Ryan was polite, reserved and decorous for the gravity of the occasion ol’ Jungle Joey seemed to carry the day on the points he made – regardless that he had little of substance or even new ways of putting liberal dogma. The libs loved his performance because to most of them he seemed more forceful, passionate and full of feeling.
    Too bad he had so little worth saying once he stopped grimacing like a zoo monkey.

    Oh, Jungle Joey is still the nice guy with lots of appeal. But, isn’t that how every successful con man presents his wares?


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