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Concealed weapons amendment disapproved

July 23, 2009 by  

Gun owners will not be allowed to cross state lines with concealed weapons as the Senate voted against this proposed amendment. The proposal was rejected by a thin margin after a 58-39 vote, with 20 Democrats registering their disapproval of the measure.

In order to pass this amendment, 60 senators would have had to vote in favor of the movement. According to USA Today, the vote was supported by mainly Republican senators with strong approval from Democrats from rural states where senators are more inclined to be pro-gun.

The amendment was strongly supported by the National Rife Association, Gun Owners of America and Senator John Thune of South Dakota.

In addition, this bill would have allowed those with a concealed weapons permit in one state to transfer the document to other states that, according to The Hill, Thume said was a "common sense" plan.

On the other hand, those against the bill, namely New York Senator Charles Schumer, were quite vocal in their dislike. He is quoted as saying that "if this had passed, it would have created havoc for law enforcement and endangered the safety of millions of New Yorkers."ADNFCR-1961-ID-19279154-ADNFCR

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  • FarRightWinger

    Of course, Rats Rats, democRATS opposed it…

    • http://Personallibertydigest Bob Tamburello

      Go to Oath Keepers.org and tell your friends if you like.We’re trying to get as many people to join. Thanks Bob

    • Claudia

      Why aren’t you complaining about the GOP that voted for it?

      • Don Tremaine

        Why would anyone complain that someone voted for this bill? That wouldn’t make any sense. I’d only complain about the ones who opposed it!

    • http://PersonalLibertyDigest Randy

      The only thing that endangers millions of New Yorkers is Charles Schumer, who insists they be unarmed prey for the criminals who carry weapons no matter what Schumer says or does, including his law enforcement personel, which he claims whose safety would be put in jeapordy by law abiding citizens being armed to protect themselves. I guess some people can’t think for themselves and will believe any propaganda that comes out of the mouths of sweet talking idiots.

  • FarRightWinger

    On the other hand, those against the bill, namely New York Senator Charles Schumer, were quite vocal in their dislike who is quoted as saying that “if this had passed, it would have created havoc for law enforcement and endangered the safety of millions of New Yorkers.”

    Charlie, Charlie… Your life is in danger? Are you afraid of what Charlie?

    • Sal

      Schumer, the lover of drug dealers, criminals and lowlifes. Just the sight of him makes me SICK. 2011 ANYONE BUT SCHUMER.

      • http://PersonalLibertyDigest Randy

        You are right, but you need to convince New Yorkers of this. Are you one, and if so, start spreading the word.

  • Mark McLean

    This is just another example of Sen. Schumer and other far liberal Dems taking our liberties away. The second amendment clearly states that every citizen has the right to bear arms. Our Constitution is being eroded by our Congress every day. You know I believe we are a country that is rapidly becoming Socialist. The next step is Dictatorship.
    Mark McLean

    • James

      Mark M., the Second Amendment states “the right to keep and bear Arms shall not be infringed.” It does not say “every citizen has the right to bear arms.” All citizens certainly have the right, it’s fundamental and inalienable, but it does not depend on the Second Amendment for its existence. The right existed before the federal government was created. When Congress passes a law that infringes on the right, they violate their oath of office to uphold and defend the Constitution.

      • http://www.FunAtDubli.com Don

        Awesome observation James. However, at the rate we are voting these morons to govern us we will soon loose that right and many others too. But you are right on the money!

      • Jarrell Jones

        Right on James But when are we going to hold these idiots accountable.
        In reference .they should be impeached. This is up to we the people and in my openion we are coming together and we will rise up and take our country back and we will protect our rights and freedoms with any means necessary.
        Again I will state it is up to us in the end ,we must and I beleave we will come together and get the job done.

        • Don Tremaine

          I always refer to the American Rifleman for the NRA ratings for politicians before voting. I select the ones I like and invariably they are A rated by the NRA. If not I find someone who is that I also like.
          Don

      • Constantine

        Well put. Thanks for the comment. What should be the penalty for violating the oath of office? What do we do to Americans who spy or work for foreign countries? Why are Senators for example not held accountable for their treason?

        • Constantine

          Maybe it’s because the entire federal government is corrupt and has lost its way.

        • scott B

          Reply to James first reply,
          History tells us clearly that countries that control, then ultimately ban private ownership of “easily affordable arms” (a very serious point to our Founding Fathers) individual protection, mainly from tyranny; Foreign or Domestic have no means of stopping or curtailing loss of Freedom, Liberty or means to cause the “State” to think twice about pitching their wares on the Populace (Us).
          In History it is the same story played over and over, take the citizens means of keeping Government in check and within a few generations, usually less, the people are fodder for the States Will, without the means to attain Freedom from Tyranny.
          Most recent examples are:England, where each year 10% of the population will be the victim of a violent Crime. Fight back and be sued by the theifs for hampering their earning ability(Crime) and go to jail
          .
          Austrailia: the most recent Large country to ban Firearms and Crime is already increasing and the People are not able to stand against the state, as they are unarmed.
          The History of any government that desires to control(ban) the means of self defense, from the bow and arrow to the firearm is clear. An unarmed people are easily bound to the state and easy prey to thiefs and gangs, usually creating fear in the general citizen, so the State comes in and conveniently provides the answer in some new “program”, or control that we pay for in taxes. Which, if we were to look back to the beginning, is where it all started. In essence, any crime involving a arm is blown way out of porportion to create fear, so the lawmakers propose controling it, yet we are not told of the benifits of gun ownership, for example; in an average year over a Million Crimes never happen because a legal gun owner merely shows a firearm, without actually discarging it and “poof” the robbery, assault etc is over. This should be proof enough, yet it is not only is it not reported, it is burried.
          Lastly and Most importantly!
          There has been two laws that, if enforced have harsh penalties for any Felon even being in possession of a firearm, we are talking Years in Prison for merely having possession of any firearm and the first law was passed in 1961, or 1962. Later it was ammended to further state “Any Felon was forbidden to be in possesssion of even a .22 caliber Rifle. These charges are routinrly plea bargained out so the issue of increased control is kept in the News and in the congress.
          Great reading on the whole issue of the 2nd ammendent is covered from the beginning in a Book “The Second Ammendment Primer” NRA Publications

      • James

        Congressmen aren’t subject to impeachment, only the President, Vice President and all civil officers (like cabinent members) are impeachable (Art. II, Sec. 4). When a congressman violates his oath of office (Art. VI, Cl. 3) s/he should just be voted out of office. The unconstitutional federal law may be challenged in a federal district court. In D.C. v. Heller (2008), Dick Heller first filed suit in the D.C. district court and charged that a D.C. ordinance, which banned handgun possession in the District, was violative of the Second Amendment. The U.S. Supreme Court, after re-analysis of every word in the amendment, said: “In sum, we hold that the District’s ban on handgun possession in the home violates the Second Amendment, as does its prohibition against rendering any lawful firearm in the home operable for the purpose of immediate self-defense.”

        Keep in mind this decision only applies to the D. of C., and possibly to other federal possessions, should similar suits be filed therein. However, the Court’s enforcement of the amendment’s “shall not be infringed” on a law under their jurisdiction, could well mean it would rule likewise on a challenge to a federal law of Congress that had likewise-infringed – they’ve infringed since 1934.

      • Sal

        You make me laugh. The congress, senate and the white house have not yet paid attention their OATH. Schumer is a piece of LIBERAL #@#^. This guy has to go. November 2011. But New Yorkers will vote him in anyway.

    • Foolpatrol

      Honor the Constitution? What about the 14th Amendment which states, “Nor shall any state deny any person the equal protection of the laws.” I’m neither against nor am I an advocate of gay issues. Just fairness, equal protection and common sense. So Genius, you want to extend gun rights across state lines but you are opposed to recognizing another state’s marriage laws and extend those rights across state lines because you disapprove of the unions? What about that Constitution? What makes the 2nd Amendment superior to the 14th Amendment? Because you like guns and abhor gays? Were you home schooled with Sarah ‘give me free, it’s not my fault’ Palin? Put the Meth pipe down!

      • CJ Daniels

        Fool, who pulled your string. Your comments show you’re not paying attention to the subject here, but apparantly have an agenda to change the point of this conversation. Sounds like you may be the one “on something” if you can’t do a simple task as that. You may have a valid point, but it has no relation to this article and nobody else brought it up. Anybody who intentionally offers unrelated points has an agenda to disrupt the objective here.

      • Brian Rawls

        Hey foolpatrol, take the cure. I will supply the ammo you gaylord.

        • Foolpatrol

          It’s not about Gays, Stupid! It’s about the Constitution! No Amendment is superior to another Amendment!

        • Claudia

          Its most unfortunate that the conservative momvement has to be associated with biggots.

        • Brian Rawls

          Claudia , who rang your bell? You are foolish to call me a biggot. As far as there being a conservative movement going on,I dont see it do you. The impact the conservatives are having is very little. You just jump in the middle of stuff you dont know about.

      • Brian Rawls

        Ok I understand that, I just dont know what your facination with gays is all about. Last time you were all over the black teachers nuts. Now your all about gays, you are not related to Barny Franks are you foolpatrol? Do you sound like taz from loony tunes when you talk? Stupid is such a harsh word. I will just call you a pud puller.

        • tlk

          Foolpatrols name says it all!!!

      • Robin, Arcadia, IN

        Foolpatrol…. What are you trying to say? Do you really think your comment is relevant to this blog? Why do you think gays are not receiving equal protection? I don’t know what you are smoking, but it must be some good stuff….

      • SilverWolf

        The discussion here was about gun laws and the 2nd amendment. I don’t recall anyone even attempting to say that one amendment was any more important than any other. That is except for you now! Someone needs to take your shit stirring spoon away. Another thing, I didn’t notice where anyone said anything about gay marriage or marriage laws in this discussion, that is of course, except for you once again.

        • SilverWolf

          By the way, my comment is of course directed at Foolpatrol in case it wasn’t obvious.

    • http://google fogey60

      right, obama for life seig heil coming to a nation near you

  • James

    The “not be allowed to cross state lines with concealed weapons” is a misapplication of federal power to “regulate commerce” (Art. I, Sec. 8, Cl. 3). Under the guise of regulating commerce, Congress is skirting the Second Amendment restriction placed upon them. They have been doing this since 1934, when they passed the National Firearms Act of 1934, the Gun Control Act of 1968, etc., etc., under their commerce and/or taxing powers. Why didn’t they name those, the National Revenue Act and the Safe Streets Act? (You only get one answer.) According to the Bill of Rights Preamble, its purpose was supposedly to “prevent [such] misconstruction or abuse of its powers.”

  • http://johnny@arcsllc.com johnny

    They are slowly trying to take our guns away from us.
    One small step at a time.
    What else is NEW?

    • Sal

      SLOWLY, THEY HAVE IT IN HIGH GEAR. THEY WILL TRY TO GET SOMETHING PASSED BEFORE NOVEMBER ELECTIONS BECAUSE THEY KNOW THEY WILL LOSE THE HOUSE AND THE SENATE.

  • Ben

    I think the Congress accidentally got this one right, but for the wrong reasons. As I see it, the question is not about the right to keep and bear arms, but about states’ rights to regulate concealed carry permits. Since not all states have enacted concealed carry legislation, permitting someone from another state to carry concealed within one of those states would be granting a privilege to non-residents that is not enjoyed by residents; and since the requirements for a permit vary by state, universal permission would favor individuals from states with less stringent requirements over residents, as well. It would be more appropriate for states to develop reciprocal agreements with those states that have similar requirements to qualify for a permit, i.e., training requirements, etc. A gunowner, even without a concealed carry permit, who travels to or through another state(s) should be aware of the transport requirements of the states he or she will travel to or through, and should comply with them. Had the Congress passed this bill, it would actually be encroaching on the authority of the states to regulate themselves, and would violate the 10th Amendment.

    • CJ Daniels

      Ben, are you loosing focus? The second ammendment gives the right, therefor the tenth does not apply, which only covers points ommited by the Constitution. In reality, the states who have not made laws stipulating how permits can be obtained should be considered in violation of the second and forced to change, not the other way around. By the way, many states’ permits are not for “concealed” carry, but to simply carry… gun, knife or other weapon, even though they only test them on handguns. Owners of these permits choose to conceal as not to attract unwanted attention. But to the point, what good is a law to somebody who doesn’t obey the law anyway? Lawmakers think people will feel better, but it only serves to restrict those who are not a threat. Those that are don’t care what the law is.

      • Ben

        I respectfully dispute the implication that one amendment trumps another. Each amendment is a part of the Constitution. The founders crafted the document to define the form and powers of the national (federal) government. Their intent in the Bill of Rights was to clarify the restrictions on the federal government; therefor, when the 2nd amendment speaks of the right to keep and bear arms, the founders viewed that as a natural right, and the amendment was meant to reinforce the prohibition against the national government infringing upon that right. The recent D.C. v. Heller decision acknowledged the states’ authority to regulate gun ownership, i.e., legal age to purchase weapons, requirements for concealed carry permits, etc. Under our constitutional republican form of government, this means that each state can establish rules, in accordance with the customs and sentiment of state citizens, but the federal government cannot. That’s why the 10th amendment applies in this case, but the 2nd amendment does not. If the federal government were to successfully overstep the restrictions placed on it by the 10th amendment, it would then have no difficulty establishing national restrictions on gun ownership and use. What I am saying is that the 10th amendment in this case reinforces the 2nd amendment restriction on federal infringement of the right to keep and bear arms.

    • scott B

      Ben,
      I appreciate your knowledge of current law, most of which is based on “case Law”, vs. Constitutional Law.
      The real issue and one I believe is most relevant is; What does the Government have to do with Law abiding Sovereign U.S. Citizens Right to rely on themselves for the Responsible protection of their Life, that of their family and fellow citizens and their property from unlawful loss, or seizure.
      This may sound too simple, but is at the heart of this whole issue.
      Respectfully; Your fellow Law abiding Citizen.

      • Ben

        See my response to CJ Daniels as a partial response to your point, and thank you for a courteous discussion. I would add that case law is, at least theoretically, based on constitutional law, and particularly in an issue that has been litigated to the extent this one has. SCOTUS has generally affirmed the right of individual citizens to “keep and bear arms”, and has specifically affirmed it in D.C. v. Heller. Respectfully,

  • FRW

    Their only fear was that a legally purchased firearm, crossing the stateline ends up in a criminal’s hand in the other state… Which is stupid, bc it could end up in the wrong hands in the issuing state as well…

    The purpose of this defeat is to ban guns by any means. They rather make one little step ahead to ban guns, then let us to make that little step to get our guns-right back. Shumer on the other hand is a notorious gun-grabber, his record shows probably the worst for gun-owners.

    The issue here is total gun-confiscation, as the marxists did and do whenever they gain power in any government.

  • http://www.FunAtDubli.com Don

    The Moronic Senator from New York thinks that criminals will carry guns into bars, and restaurants, into movies and, and, and,…… What an idiot! No criminal can legally buy a gun and certainly none can get a permit to carry! So once again the law abiding citizen is punished for the few criminals who find their protection in the same bill. Now they have less to fear from the law abiding people whom they know have been legally disarmed. Great work jerk!

  • ANTI-Fedralist

    I think a lot of people are missing another valuable discussion here the article states that the bill was defeated 58-39 with 60 votes needed which leaves three senators who did not vote. I for one am sick of senators and representatives not doing the job that WE hired them to do and vote on legislation.

  • ONTIME

    Since we cannot carry a conceled permitted weapon to defend ourselves and ward off criminals, then why don’t we carry unconcealed weapons like in the days prior to 1900, today we can adjust for legal permitting. Law was not wide spread and the gun made for a presence that said civility was a must, today the strain on bugets and law enforcement is recreating those circumstances found in the early days, self protection should be a Constitutional option for all legal citizens.

    The unprotected are nothing more than fodder for the criminals in society, they will think long and hard before they attack a armed person or try to take their property. So you can keep you weapon from becoming a required government plowshare or you can use your plowshare to work for those who have illegal guns.

  • http://msn Freckles

    I would like to know how these fool’s keep getting nominated? I know they have name reconition, and they have a lot of money, but pple keep putting Senator’s like Chuckie, into office. It is very hard to vote for pple these days as you vote for a conservative, and what you get is another moderate, just get on the fence and jump on anyone side lib. or cons.!!!

    Gun hater’s are always voting to protect us and what they do is protect the criminal, if a criminal wants to get a gun they will find a way to get one. The ability to carry a concealed weapon is our right , what are you suppose to do if you have a gun and have to pass through a state such as NY, go to the police and give them your gun and then have them give your gun back to you at the border? This is a stupid law, and anyone with any common sense knows that. If I meet all requirements of the state I am living in then I have a right to carry that gun at all times.

    Another right being taken away. If they get our guns we need to be very afraid and to prevent that we need to be involved and know what these politicians are doing at all times. I am having a very hard time trying to keep up as all the Organizer wants to do is keep shoving so many bills to be voted on that we are just crazy trying to sort through this stuff. Right out of the book “Rules For Radicals” by Saul Alinski.

    Keep your guns, as we all know Hitler took all the guns and the pple had no way to defend themselves. There is an out right agenda to take away all of our civil liberties, and this is a very scary time in our history!!!!! God Bless Our Troops, and this great Country called America!!!!!!!!

    • Earlw

      Actually, most states recognize there is a federal provision called the pass-through law that covers transiting states. the provision is in non-reciprocal states, the weapon must be “securely encased”. Basically unavailable for use

  • Al. vet

    No surprise here…The first step in a dictatorship is to disarm the population.If you think this could never happen to America,just sit back and do nothing.The agenda of this new collection of idiots is to strip away your rights and force “big brothers” will on us all.This is surposed to be a government “FOR THE PEOPLE.BY THE PEOPLE” but clearly it is not.Crooked politicians,special interests and a president thats on an ego trip at our expense is what it’s come down to.A health care plan thats a bad joke and 1001 pages long,but just pass it,don’t bother to read it..just like the bailout.Something as critical and costly such as that should be fully read and voted on by “WE THE PEOPLE”.not have the decision made for us by a bunch of politicians that only care about keeping their jobs and have their own gold plated health plan.It just makes sense for them to destroy the 2 nd. amendment.They don’t want free men and citizens,they want subjects.

  • Zen Master

    I believe that ANY form of gun regulation is unconstitutional. Yet, I am glad this bill did not pass. If this had become law, then the Federal Government would have gotten it's grubby little fingers into it. I believe that if this law had passed, it would have eventually been used to force ALL states to abide by the laws of a single state.
    For example: If you lived in a pro gun rights state such as Kentucky or Maine, you would find that you would be forced to abide by the gun laws of California for instance (who's current gun laws total for than 12,000 pages of regulations). All states would be forced to follow the rules of whichever state imposed the strongest gun control laws.
    I feel that we narrowly escaped yet another law that wold have cost us our 2nd amendment rights.

  • Jesse James

    Alright, congress…you want to make us all criminals? Then that’s what we will be. The gloves are coming off! The 2nd amendment declares that all people have an inalienable right to protect themselves. We the people have a right and responsibility to carry gunS, anywhere, nationwide….PERIOD! And it does not say what types of guns. So…ATF, forget the 18″ rule….UNCONSTITUTIONAL. When our government restricts and denies our rights, then THEY are the criminals and enemies of America. Listen people, the root of the problem is David Rockefeller and the New World Order. They are behind all this…they control the government, and they must destroy America from within to bring about the North American Union. One step closer to a one world government, which they control! Solution: SHUT DOWN THE FEDERAL RESERVE, restore the gold standard, and CLEAN HOUSE! Fire them all and put blue collar constitutionalist and libertarians in office. They will have to kill me if they want to take my liberties. Our own government is the enemy and it must be stopped now! Restore America and rule by the constitution. Any government agency that will steal my liberties to protect and defend myself and family will be treated and dealt with as the enemy they are. I’m ready to die defending myself….ARE YOU?

    • Jerry

      Jesse
      I couldn’t agree with you more, the government we have now is just about to the point where it needs to be abolished. Most of these jerks in office are nothing but communists, and need to be tossed out. I think the next election (mid term) will tell the story, if acorn does what they want, by the way acorn is the demorats newest way of controling the elections. Any way if they have their way and re-district the polls so they can put their guys in office maybe the rest of us will finally have enough, take what guns we have left and go clean out all the state houses just for starters. Don’t get me wrong I don’t want to use violence, but we may have to just like the first patriots did. Question is how many of us are out there?

    • Patriot Mike

      Jesse, I am a Patriot, just like you. We need to vote the communists out and get good patriotic Americans elected to office in order to turn this country around. We need the NRA and ALL other Gun Rights organizations to band together to accomplish the goal of informing the general population of the danger that some people in our present government are placing our Great country in. “We must, indeed, all hang together, or most assuredly we shall all hang separately.” as Benjamin Franklin said in 1776. The One World government cannot be allowed to happen.

  • Constantine

    Interesting insight Zen Master. We know that the goal is total disarmament of the American people and people all of the world so the global elite’s power can never be challenged. The Feds are going to have to get sneakier and sneakier about it if they’re going to make any headway. Look forward to lengthy bills in the near future with gun regulation laws attached to it on line 10,645 on page 1454 of some environmental bill.
    “And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast (world government): and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him? – Revelation 13:4
    No one will be able to “make war” with the world government when private ownership of firearms is eliminated. All of this is a blatant attack on the most basic human right of self-defense.
    Any United States government official who is working to eliminate gun ownership is a traitor against the people of the United States and should be treated as an enemy of the state. If they cannot be voted out they must be removed by force even to the taking of their lives to do so.

    • Zen Master

      strong textGradualism is the key to their insidious plans. The banksters know that the free people of America constitute the largest armed force in the world. “We The People” are a sleeping giant, and they know it! The banksters know they need to use stealth and illusion to hide their works. Politics, Education, Religion & the Economy… control these four things, and you control the heart and soul of the people, their very thoughts even. They have been gaining control of each of these four area’s more many many decades now, and will soon be ready to reap the rewards of their labor… a New World Order.

    • http://personalliberty.com Jessica

      Sixty-five percent of U.S. citizens are legally packing heat and stockpiling ammo, and God knows how many are packing illegally. So why should we fear the elites? It would be logistically impossible to disarm even a fraction of us, no matter how many brownshirts Obama can recruit into his “Civilian Homeland Security Force”. Take heart, people. We’ve been here before, several times. In reply to Constantine: That’s some scary rhetoric, dude. Better watch what you post online, or the CIA could come knocking at your door.>

  • cr747

    Remember them when election time comes around and vote them out

  • http://www.spiritjewelry.info RevSuzanne

    No law is just fine.
    As of right now, we have 28 states with reciprocal concealed handgun licensing.
    I gotta tell you. Here in Texas, the enrollment in CHL courses and applications for CHLs more than doubled the minute Obama got sworn into office. I also noticed that WalMart, Gander Mountain, Academy Sports, and many of the gun shops cannot keep up with the demand for ammunition and the shelves are usually empty. People are stockpiling.
    We have a border that isn’t being defended, and the Mexican drug cartels are active all over the this state, and the rest of the southwestern US.
    People are noticing democrat attempts to outlaw firearms and impose some rediculous restrictions on ammo.
    A lot of people I know are preparing to be able to “shelter in place” should any of several scenarios occur… and you know what all that includes.
    I think the democrat controlled congress has another thing coming if they think they can continue Bush’s assaults on the Constitution.

    • cr747

      Rev Suzanne, I hope you meant to say OBAMA,,,,, Bush had more sense in his little finger than OBAMA has in——( whatever )

      • RevSuzanne

        Like I said, the demoCRAPS are continuing the republiCONS’ assaults on the Constitution… I just didn’t mention Obama by name.

        I also think the Obam-idiots are going to hit the wall pretty quick.
        What people didn’t like about that last 8 years, and the 8 years before that, is coming to a head this time because we, as a whole population, are tired of being set up one way then another… a slap from the right then a slap from the left. Things should get really interesting.

  • http://None George

    I’ve lived in New York for more than ten yrs and moved away.Crime has gotten progressively worst.On my last visit,I saw an open drug deal taking place in a public park.You better be packing some heat as a visitor.You could become a target.

  • http://personalliberty.com Jessica

    Sixty-five percent of U.S. citizens are legally packing heat and stockpiling ammo, and God knows how many are packing illegally. So why should we fear the elites? It would be logistically impossible to disarm even a fraction of us, no matter how many brownshirts Obama can recruit into his “Civilian Homeland Security Force”. Take heart, people. We’ve been here before, several times.

    • FarRightWinger

      In the SovietGulagUnio, madman lenin declared that stockpiling food is an anti-socialit act and therefore those who have outstanding food-supllies, they MUST turned in to the peoples comittee. Those who refused were declared ‘kulaks’ and the ‘enemies of the ‘socialist regime’. Lenin’s kommissars then invaded homes and searched for stockpiled foods. The owners were handcuffed and carried to gulags in Siberia.
      I think, in the case of a Martial Law, kommissar Napolitano and her Lenin-boys will act fast to voluntarily give up your food-supplies due to food-’shortages’. Those who refuse – will be declared as ‘terrorists’ and will be dealt according to their ‘martial laws’, which I think, will carry the death sentence – same as for owning guns. They just bring the law in effect: having a gun in private possession is a ‘terrorist act’. We will be given a short time to comply with their ‘law’, or…
      After Lenin and his talmudic cohorts took power, the Lenin boys went home-to-home in search of guns and ammos. They seized all guns (very few stayed hidden) and took the gun-owners in custody, as well as those who had Jesus, cross or Bible in their homes. Is history start repeating itself in America? They ban to pray publicly, or mention the name of Jesus , already in session. Lodi, California already had a council meeting on this issue… In the former SovietGulagUnio, the leninists waited until they controlled the whole country to ban Christianity. In America they want a Christian faith-free “nation” upon takeover…
      Folks, this is war. Prepare for that.

  • http://Personallibertydigest Bob Tamburello

    join Oth Keepers.org

  • Lindy

    The Second Amendment is an outdated joke. When it was ratified in 1788, concerned local citizens could indeed raise an army in true “Minuteman” fashion and fight against tyranny. However, 220 years later, a bunch of modern-day Minutemen don’t stand a chance. I don’t care how much ammo and how many assault rifles you and your buddies have back at the compound… you’re all going to have the life expectancy of a beer keg at a frat party. For an example of armed citizens going up against a modern force with helicopters, radio communications and sophisticated electronic surveillance , just remember (or Google “David Koresh”). That one didn’t end well for the “citizen militia” and they were only fighting the ATF and FBI. Imagine taking on the US Marines… hell, imagine taking on the National Guard. Since the 2nd Amendment was written helicopters, tanks, planes, radio communication and satellite photography have been invented. No independent militia can afford to fight against even a moderately well-equipped modern army. Cling to history, your 200+ year-old piece of obsolete Constitutional paper… but realize that you’re not being very realistic and you’re not being very honest with yourself either.

    As for handguns and concealed weapons, most arguments are just inane. Firstly, the handgun, revolver, pistol, call it what you will, was invented half a century after the Second Amendment was conceived. It was never really included in your “right to bear arms”. I have to laugh when people claim a concealed weapon reduces crime. A gun IS NOT A DEFENSIVE weapon. Think about it. YOU feel very safe and secure because you’re “packing heat”. Then I come along and suddenly I point MY gun at you and say “hands-up”. The reason I say “hands-up” or “freeze” (or whatever cliche you want) is so YOU CAN’T REACH FOR YOUR CONCEALED WEAPON. So there you are… getting robbed by ME and MY GUN and YOU HAVE A GUN! As a matter of fact, not only can I steal your wallet, watch, jewellery… I’ll probably STEAL your gun too! Your gun and your Second Amendment are useless. Is this archaic amendment really worth all the deaths it brings??? Could someone RATIONALLY and INTELLIGENTLY repsond?

    • Brian Rawls

      Lindy there was no citizen army in Waco. There will be combat indeed, most people that leave the military believe in the right to bear arms. You are very foolish if you think it will be that easy for the gov to take away the right to bear arms. You will just have a case where ex military will fight the military. You might just find yourself being used as a human sheild Lindy. Oh yes, you see combat has evolved Lindy just like firearms. The American public can be as hardcore as the taliban or the IRA. I take it you believe in gun control along with others bastards like Hitler and Stalin.

      • Brian Rawls

        MOLON LABE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! MOLON LABE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! TILL THE DEATH!!!!!!!!!!!!!

      • FaRightWinger

        Again, as I told several tiems; you NEED to study the march 12th. 1938 WAFFENGESETZBLATT, in which Hitler EXTENDED the gun-rights, made it more legally to own, rifles, guns in Germany, after the Weimar Republic’s ban on guns (which was runned by rich jews supported Hindenburg).
        After the political situation stabilized in Germany, Hitler gave more access to guns for citizens. Jews were NOT banned from guns, only manufacturing and distribution of guns (dealership).

        In madman stalin’s SovietGulagUnio possessing a gun had DEADLY CONSEQUENCES; they usually tried the person to ‘have gun to overthrow the peoples republik’, or: ‘attempt to kill socalist elements of the peoples republik for the demand of imperialist agents’ and sent the individual to the communiust death-camps (gulags) possible for a min. of 15 yrs. Sentences for possessing an AMMO (depending how many) carried “only” 5-10 yrs heavy labor in a gulag.

        Furthermore, the strichest gun-control in German history was introduced by the so-called “liberators” (sicccc!) and ‘allied’ invaders in 1945, who banned ALL weapons, guns, even KNIVES longer than 7 inches…

    • queenieAZ

      You are so right!!A lot of people dont think this issue is important.If we lose our guns it can affect a lot of things... so much as having protection from mountain lions where I live that could be possible, & rattlesnakes, the wigley kind, not the 2 legged kind.The only reason the government wants to take our guns is so we would be helpless in their take-over. I had 7 long guns stolen in CA.Who ever took those will not turn them in.I am a 72 yr. old woman, I started out with a BB gun when I was 8, a rifle when I was a teenager,now Ive a loaded S&W .357 under my mattress, & a few rifles.Crime went up in England, Austraila, & every where guns were taken.

    • FaRightWinger

      That’s a good thing that you reminded us to Waco, TX. Imagine the large scale of ‘wacos’ would happen in America if all (or at least ALL from the law-abiding citizens) guns have been confiscated and the population is unable to resist or fight the Evil Empire (aka: US gov’t).
      Remember Ruby Ridge, when randy Weaver’s family was almost wiped out based on an FBI punk infiltration and set-up. These were violent, government actions despite the fact that they knew: the US citizens are well-armed. Maybe they tested the reaction, maybe they just went out of control, but ONE thing is sure: without the 2nd Amendment, we do NOT have the 1st Amendment already, therefore to protect the 2nd one by any means is MORE important than anything else!

      The Founding fathers knew very well from history what gun-confiscation, disarming the population means for liberties. When we see our government goes against its own people, we not just have the right, but we do have the DUTY to disable that branch. At this case, the whole US gov’t.

    • cr747

      You know Lindy, you pull a gun on me, and tell me hands up,(LOL) your a dead or wounded whatever you are. While you are talking I’ve done drawn and got you under control.(LOL) What a laugh!!!!!!

      • Lindy

        Yeah right quick draw. cr747… think… whoever draws his gun first wins. Rest assured I can talk and squeeze the trigger at the same time. If my gun is drawn, and I tell you to put your hands-up… you are not going to go for your gun. If you tried to pull out a gun I’d sink a fist sized cluster of lead in your chest. Even a meth-ed out punk who holds his gun sideways like they do in the videos would probably kill you as you tried to unconceal your weapon.

    • Vlad

      Lindy:
      Let me counter your hypothetical scenario with another one.
      If the Left (strictly theoretically speaking, of course)will start another civil war against American people then I doubt that the militias will directly fight with the military because of many reasons, just to mention a few:
      1) 80% of military are the patriots themselves, so the militias will avoid direct confrontation with the friendly military;
      2) since there are so many soft target enemies of American people-
      why should militia engage in a combat with the military at all?
      3) if the civil war casualties amongst patriots will start piling up then the military itself might turn up against the enemies of American people.
      Military vowed their oaths to America as a whole.
      On completely unrelated topic: military in Honduras are faithful to their country and to the Constitution, not to the power usurper Zelya.
      Just a random thought, you know.

  • James

    Let’s be reminded here that there is no such thing as “our Second Amendment rights” or “constitutional rights.” Rights are inherent in American citizenship, they are not dependent on any paper document for their existence. Stated otherwise, the Bill of Rights could be repealed, with no effect whatever on our rights. Rights existed before the Bill of Rights and the federal government were created. The sole purpose for the Bill of Rights was to remind Congress that no power over rights was delegated to them, and that they were not to misconstrue powers that were delegated (in Art. I, Sec. 8) to include rights. The Second Amendment simply states “the right to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed” and that restriction applies exclusively to the federal government. The amendment has no other purpose.

  • Paul

    I see the same names over and over in this discussion. The real problem is so many just do not care. They do not care if they give up their rights as long as the government continues to promise a handout. The American people do not want a leader. They want a king who will promise to supply all their needs. Feed them, fight their battles and promise to protect them. The gov has sold the public on the idea that with less guns you will be safer which is the opposite of the truth. This country has not learned from the takeover of other countrys. With a disarmed citizenry the country is ripe for a takeover which the administration is working for and like sheep being lead to the slaughter a majority of the people are falling in line, which is how this admisistrtion was elected in the first place.

  • Dale, Oklahoma

    Heaven forbid that we should be able to LEGALLY protect
    ourselves from all of the criminals who are carrying their
    guns wherever they want, to attack us. Remember the Luby’s
    Restaurant mass murders in Killien, Texas awhile back. Had
    one woman been able to bring her handgun into the cafeteria
    in her handbag, her parents and several others may still be alive.

    These socialist Senators either have Secret Service protection
    or can afford private body guards. What about all of us regular
    folks that these liberal morons are SUPPOSED TO REPRESENT?
    Aren’t Demagogocrats supposed to be the party of the little
    people, the working stiff, blue collar Joes? These SINators are
    not only betraying their own constituents. They are betraying the
    Constitution. When are their CONNEDstituents going to WAKE
    up to the traitors they’ve voted for and vote the bums out?
    Are they that stupid, are they amoral or are they as leftist liberal
    as the jackasses that they’re sending to D.C.? It defies common
    sense, logic, reason, intellectual honesty and a pure conscience.
    GOD help us ALL!

    • James

      Dale, OK, you certainly have the right to defend yourself. The Oklahoma Constitution, Section II-26 reads: “The right of a citizen to keep and bear arms in defense of his home, person, or property, or in aid of the civil power, when thereunto legally summoned, shall never be prohibited; but nothing herein contained shall prevent the legislature from regulating the carrying of weapons.”

      To what extent your state legislature has regulated the carrying of weapons, I don’t know, but I’m sure that information is available. Ask your state representative for a copy of the current state law on “carrying,” if you can’t find it, yourself, under Oklahoma State Law. Just remember, it says “The right of a citizen to keep and bear arms…shall never be prohibited.” If you find that your state regulation of “carrying of weapons” has in effect prohibited possession of a suitable firearm (as was the case in D.C. v. Heller) you may have grounds for a suit, as did Dick Heller.

      • Dale, Oklahoma

        James,
        I realize that I have a right to defend myself IN Oklahoma.
        As you wrote, we have pretty strong laws here protecting
        legal gun owners rights ( despite a Dem. Governor, A.G.,
        etc.). What my concern is, that I obviously didn’t do a very
        good job of conveying, is that if I wanted to travel to OTHER
        states, I may have to defend my or others lives from ILLEGAL
        gun owners, with nothing more than a tire iron or a 3″ folding
        knife.

  • FRW

    Attention, the democRATS well-known about their outstanding support for illegals (mostly mexicans) for their marxist agenda. They will use them to to ban guns and all Christian-founded principles.
    It is very important that we defeat, or HELP to defeat every attempt they try to do to let illegal criminals invade and destroy our country.
    One of those attempts is the NObamaCare which will use hard-working American taxpayers money to pay FREE medicare for them. It is unbelievable. Zionist Pelosi is the main supporter of this illegal and anti-American act. Defeat this evil woman in her nest her NOW!
    Here’s an example u can use to fax for your Representative in your area:

    Dear [Your U.S. Representative]

    80% of Americans oppose giving free health care to illegal aliens and it is time that the Congress supports the will of the people!

    Section 242 of the America’s Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 prohibits “undocumented aliens” from receiving health care, but does not prescribe a method for preventing illegal aliens from receiving health care.

    Please require each recipient of the affordability credit created under the bill to also have their eligibility verified by the Income and Eligibility Verification System (IEVS) and Systematic Alien Verification for Entitlements (SAVE) systems. This would ensure that illegal aliens who buy private insurance could not receive taxpayer-funded handouts to help offset (or, perhaps, completely pay for) the cost of their insurance premiums.

    Please do all you can to rectify the pro-illegal alien aspects of this bill. American taxpayers should not have to spend untold billions providing non-essential health care to illegal aliens.

    Sincerely, [Your name will appear here]

    • Brian Rawls

      If there were only one million people who were willing to fight for their right to bear arms. The gov would not be able to stand against them. The force would be to big to deal with. Even with tanks and helicopters, how many American soldiers do you think would bear arms against the public? Even if some did they wouldnt be able to handle the volume of people. The largest battle of urban combat would take place.

      • Average Joe

        Brian Rawls,

        It isn’t our troops we have to worry about in the event of martial law…most of them are scattered throughout the world…ever wonder why?
        What we need to worry about is U.N. troops being brought in (they won’t have any problem at all shooting American citizens) or even worse, someone like Blackwater etc. (mercenaries and thugs from around the world).
        Gun control means being able to hit your target.
        Keep your powder dry!

  • cr747

    Just waiting for the day when someone comes up to these gun hating idiot’s in congress and pulls a gun on them, and they are standing there unarmed, can’t protect their family or friends, and all they can do is beg for mercy not to harm them, then they would know how it feels to be unarmed and can’t defend their families for some of the one’s they pardoned or let out of prison early,and didn’t enforce the laws already in the books. It will happen or it already has and won’t admit it. Their time is coming just wait and see.

  • cr747

    But of course it’s alright for their bodyguards to carry weapons across state lines to protect them but uhuh not us law abiding citizens. I know how it is,I had bodyguards growing up because my Father was in politics and I didn’t think it fair then and I still don’t think it’s right for the law abiding citizen not be allowed our second amendment rights. God bless our forefathers for writing the second amendment and gave us our rights to protect our families and ourselves. I still have problems today for things that happened fifty years ago, and if I didn’t carry a weapon, I would have problems for things that happened back then. So every where I go I carry a weapon. Head of security at our church, because you never know when a crazed or drugged idiot might walk into the church and start shooting. At my church they will have to go through me first, and some other security there. I helped put some drug dealers in prison back a few years ago by working undercover, and some have served their time and getting out, so I have to watch every move I make when out in public, and even at my home. All I can say is be prepared, bring them on.

  • cr747

    People'' You know what to do. Remember them all at election time, and put them in their holes where they belong. NOT IN WASHINGTON FOR GODS SAKE!!!!!!!!!!!! Come on ban together remove them from office. You know the one's that are against us protecting ourselves. REMOVE THEM FROM OFFICE , SOME OF THEM THINK THEY CAN'T BE REMOVED HAHA SHOW THEM WE MEAN BUSINESS> VOTE VOTE VOTE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! OUT OUT OUT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  • cr747

    I’ve had my say, thanks Bob Livingston. Now it’s somebody’s time other than mine. If we don’t start sticking together, and get these NUTS out of the White House, and put some of our own people in there, then we have nobody to blame but ourselves. The ones in there now,” and you know who they are” need to be put to pasture and start grazing, and get some of our on people voted into the White House, and get BAM-Bam OBAMA impeached and JOE-SMILEY BIDEN, And for sure Bug Eyed NANCY APPALOOSA OUT then America would be safe again, and not trillions of dollars in debt. Wake up and look at whats going on. They think the American people are all idiots.

    • Lindy

      Yeah, but that’s why Bush was thrown out of office. The way he was eroding civil liberties, (eaves-dropping on law-abiding citizens), breaking the Geneva Conventions (endangering the troops) and making America trillions of dollars in debt. Nancy Appaloosa couldn’t be worse than Bush-Cheney… do more damage… or put the country in more debt even if she was in power for another 20 years.

      Remember, Bush-Cheney inherited a Congress with a balanced budget and Bush-Cheney were the guys behind the ridiculous bailouts of Wall Street and the banks.

      • cr747

        You know Lindy, you’ve watched to much gunsmoke I’ve been shot ,shot at, stabbed, been knock down, but always brought the drug dealer in, and some tough hombre’s. But, I’ve always got up and brought the one’s I had staked out or road with for 6 month’s or more to justice would name a few, but they are probably on internet behind bar’s wondering where that a–hole is that out smarted, out drew or made them eat a little dirt or concrete while firing their weapon in shock of what had happen. So don’t let your mouth overload your a–. I’m sure there’s always someone out there that thinks they can hold a firearm on somebody, and get the advantage on someone, but they always make that one little mistake that got them shot, or yes (not proud) even killed. So don’t think just because you might be holding a firearm on someone, you’ve got them under control, because you might wish those hand grips where made to eat. I’ve seen some of them that wished they where chocolate, and they didn’t even like chocolate. And for Bam-Bam-Obama, he’s got so many junk vehicle’s out there that he wishes he had Bush there to get him out of trouble. Bam-Bam is nothing but a racist. He showed that on national tv the other night when he said “that all of us was stupid”. Now who’s stupid?

  • FarRightWinger

    Actor Charlton Heston, born October 4, 1924, was one of some performing artists who received the Kennedy Center honors on December 6, 1997. Mr. Heston remained in Washington D.C. and addressed the 20th Anniversary of the Free Congress Foundation and the 4th Birthday of the NET TV network. The following are excerpts from his Insightful remarks. Mr. Heston and Mrs. Heston celebrated 50 years of marriage in 1994.

    “A cultural war is raging across our land-storming our values, assaulting our freedoms, killing our self-confidence in who we are and what we believe. (Mr. Heston then asked those present who owned a gun to raise their hand.)

    I wonder how many of you own guns but chose not to raise your hand? How many of you considered revealing your conviction about a constitutional right, but then though better of it?

    If so, you are a victim of the culture war being waged against traditional American freedom of beliefs and ideas. You have been assaulted and robbed of the courage of your convictions. Your pride in who you are and what you believe in has been ridiculed, ransacked, and plundered! It may be a war without a bullet or bloodshed, but with just as much liberty lost: You and your country are less free!

    Because you choose to own guns- affirmed by no less than the Bill of Rights- you embrace a view at odds with the cultural war lords. If that is the outcome of cultural war, and you are the victims, I can only ask the obvious question. What will become of the right itself? Or other rights not deemed acceptable by the thought police? What other truth in your heart will you disavow with your hand?

    Rank-and-file Americans wake up every morning, increasingly bewildered and confused at why their views make them lesser citizens. The message gets through; Heaven help the God fearing, law-abiding, Caucasian, middle- class Protestant-or even worse, evangelical Christian, Midwestern or Southern- or even worse, rural, apparently straight-or even worse, admitted heterosexuals, gun-owing-or even worse, NRA-card-carrying, average working stiff-or even worse, male working stiff-because, not only don’t you count, you are a down-right obstacle to social progress. Your voice deserves a lower decibel level, your opinion is less enlightened, your media access is insignificant, and frankly, mister, you need to wake up, wise up, and learn a little something from your new-America and until you do, would you mind shutting up?

    That is why you didn’t raise your hand. That’s how cultural war works. That’s what happens when a generation of media, educators, entertainers, and politicians-led by a willing President-decide the America they were born into isn’t good enough anymore. So, they contrive to change it through cultural warfare of class distinction! Ask the Romans if powerful nations have ever fallen as a result of cultural division. There are ruins around the world that were once the smug centers of small-minded, arrogant elitism. It appears that, rather than evaporate in the flash of a split atom, we may succumb to a divided culture!

    The Constitution was handed down to guide us by a bunch of wise old dead white guys who invented our country! Now some flinch when I say that. Why! Its true-they were white guys! So were most of the guys that died in Lincoln’s name opposing slavery in the 1860’s. So why should I be ashamed of white guys? Why is “Hispanic Pride” or “Black Pride” a good thing, while “White Pride” conjures shaven heads and white hoods? Why was the Million Man March on Washington celebrated by many as progress, while the Promise Keepers March on Washington was greeted with suspicion and ridicule? I’ll tell you why, Cultural warfare!

    You don’t see other Hollywood luminaries speaking out on this do you? Its not because there aren’t any. Its because they can’t afford the heat! They dare not speak for fear of CNN or the IRS or the SAG or NBC! It saps the strength of our country when the personal price is simply too high to stand for what you believe in. Today, speaking with the courage of your convictions can be costly, the price of principal can be so high that legislators won’t lead and citizens can’t follow, and so there is no arm to fight back. That’s cultural warfare!

    Mainstream America is counting on you to “draw your sword” and fight for them. These people have precious little time and resources to battle misguided Cinderella attitudes, the fringe propaganda of the homosexual coalition, the feminists who preach that it is a divine duty for woman to hate men, blacks who raise a militant fist with one hand while they seek preference with the other, New Age apologists for juvenile crime who see roving gangs as a means to only the merchandising violence as a form of entertainment for impressionable minds, and gun bans as a means to only the Lord-knows-what. We have reached that point in time when our social policy originates on Oprah. Its time to pull the plug!”

  • cr747

    FarRightWinger, The plug has already been pulled, we are in that circle going down, and going down fast. If we don’t stand up for what is right, we are a lost and dying nation. Charleston Heston was one of the finest American men I knew, and did me proud to stand beside him and raise my hand, and I salute him today for what he stood for. Never be another man that can fill his shoes, but we as Americans can still stand up and state: FROM MY COLD DEAD HANDS!!!!!!!! Charleston Heston May God Bless Your Soul, and we will continue to fight in your honor, SIR.

  • b bear

    Don’t worry about the CIA. Pelosi has discredited them. We should believe that space cadet over honorable agents, right?

    • Average Joe

      Actually intelligent people ….believe neither of them…Nancy…a brain damaged psychophant…C.I.A…..masters in the arts of stealth and lying….
      ’nuff said.

  • http://myronjpoltroonian.blogspot.com Myron J. Poltroonian

    I had the bumper sticker back during the Bubba fiasco that stated: “Charlton Heston is My President” proudly displayed on my 1971 Chevrolet K-5 Blazer. Living in a predominantly Democrat voting county, it did my heart good to observe the reactions. The following three quotes come to mind: “The beauty of the second amendment is that it will not be needed until they try to take it.” Thomas Jefferson (However, I’m beginning to believe he may’ve had more than just the use of the second amendment in it’s own defense in mind.) “The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants.” – Thomas Jefferson, 1787. Writing to Madison from Paris in January 1787, about Revolutionary War Capt. Daniel Shay’s anti-tax rebellion in Massachusetts, Jefferson said, “I hold it that a little rebellion, now and then, is a good thing, and as necessary in the political world as storms are in the physical. Unsuccessful rebellions, indeed, generally establish the encroachments on the rights of the people, which have produced them. An observation of this truth should render honest republican governors so mild in their punishment of rebellions, as not to discourage them too much. It is medicine necessary for the sound health of government.” I have said this before, and I’ll say it again: If, at any time, anyone, black, white, green, blue, yellow or brown (shirted), or any shade in between, ever tries to intimidate, delay, dissuade or otherwise harass or prevent me from voting, attending a Tea Party Rally, or worse yet, come into my home to deprive me of my means of defending my God given right to defend me and mine, I’m afraid I’ll have to remind them of the words of the irate Quaker: “Friend. I would not harm thee for the world. However, Thou Art standing where I am about to shoot.”. They will not “Take my gun from my cold, dead fingers”, rather, “Others will take my bullets from their (and/or your) cold, dead bodies.”. Any questions? Note for “Progressives” with “Aggressive Gun Control Disorder” – this means you and any turncoat “Americans” you send to do that which you have not the gónadas to do yourself. “This far and no further” is not just some quaint phrase – it’s a way of life when our freedoms are threatened. Our Constitution is under attack and I, for one, will stand up and defend it. The oath I took when I joined the service: “To Preserve, Protect and Defend the Constitution of the United States of America Against All Enemies, Foreign and Domestic”, placed no limit nor timeframe on my obligations in this matter and I recognize none.

  • Average Joe

    OK,let me get this straight. I apply for a concealed weapons permit in my state. My state does a complete background check on me all the way to the Federal level…yet somehow this same background check (which is done in every state before issuance of a permit) is not adequate in another state. To me this looks like nothing more than a revenue scheme. Either you get a permit in every state that you may travel in(at a fee of course), or you pay the fines to those states if you are caught carrying w/o a permit. Why not just make one fee and legal carry in all 50 states ( Yes Mr. Obama, there are only 50 states…not 56)…..unless of course this is all about reaching a little deeper into our pockets to get the lint left behind.
    Just my thoughts.

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