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CNPSR: New Gun Law Will Decrease Safety, Increase Threat To People And Wildlife In National Parks

February 19, 2010 by  

New gun law will decrease safety, increase threat to people and wildlife in national parks, says CNPSR On Feb. 22, an amendment to the Credit Cardholders’ Bill of Rights Act of 2009, authored by Senator Tom Coburn (R-Okla.), which permits national park visitors to possess firearms consistent with the laws of the state in which the park is located, is set to go into effect. However, not everyone is happy.

The law was supported by the National Rifle Association (NRA), but has come under criticism from other groups, including Coalition of National Park Service Retirees (CNPSR).

The organization has said it is a significant departure from long-established gun regulations that allowed visitors to possess guns in parks only if they were stowed away and unloaded.

According to the group, numerous parks will be affected, but it highlighted 11 major ones of particular concern, including the Grand Canyon National Park in Arizona, a state that has permissive gun laws.

"While standing on Mather Point, enjoying the breathtaking view of the canyon, you could see another visitor with an assault rifle slung on his shoulder," CNPSR warned.

"[It] will have a chilling effect [as] a feeling of safety and security will be replaced by wariness and suspicion," said Bill Wade, chair of CNPSR’s executive council, adding that "This diminishes some of the ‘specialness and reverence’ our citizens have long accorded to national parks."

CNPSR also expressed concern about a higher likelihood of shooting at wildlife and valuable resources, such as prehistoric petroglyphs.

Meanwhile, Coburn appeared unfazed by the criticism, saying that "if you give up on the 2nd Amendment, you give up on them all," and adding that it represents the "checks and balances" of the government and is the most important guarantee citizens have, quoted by Tulsa Beacon.
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  • quisno

    you, who wrote this piece, dont give the average citizen the decency t5o be able to use the bill of rights to defray government obstruction.?? we are being force fed the gusual clap trap that we the people are nothing but children. you let the dogs of the government do their dirty deeds to subvert our constitution . now let me tell you who the real enemy is here. the cnpsr. these fraudulent citizens have been able to establish their agenda. the stopping of logging in these united states except by corporations such as weyerhauser who is owned by the imf. Listen !in the 60″s 70″s 80′s into the 90″s the foundations hired the pgreen peace foreigners to create situations whereby the government started shutting down our ability to remove trees from our forests under phoney we need to save the trees and streams qand such. Like mother nature is going to be no problem. Now there are insects killing our trees brought in by lumber products foreign to our forests. and its killing literally millons of acres of trees . the forest service who used to be the only government agency to turn a profit has been taken over by these activists to shut down our peoples ability to earn a living. Look at the mining its gone also under the guise that we need to save the planet. all accomplished by the monies of the Ford foundation, Rockefeller,carnegie and several other foundations taken over by agents of this one world order. and placing on the backs a 50% REDUCTION IN JOBS IN THE 50 YEARS SINCE THESE TRAITORS STARTED THEIR COMMUNIST,SOCIALIST ,AND EVEN FASCIST TAKE OVER OF THE FARMS MINING AND OTHER WAYS THAT PEOLE CAN EARN A LIVING. keep the lands clean? No its for their establishment of the control for this society. over 50% of the people work for the government. does the government earn any money ?? no they use the fiat dollar and the backs of our people to maintain their power structure, and force the people into the dole system. where by the gov. can control them. this is a tyranny and i see very few writers that have any grasp of the world of shit were in,because they are also part of this upper crust society that looks at our people like they are less than human, and wish to control them. make laws to govern, common laws, but not these laws that will enslave our once proud nation and turn it into a nation of a oligarcy. i see the forests of today un kept, unmanaged, and ready to be destroyed by the first lightning bolt that strikes them. and its proven by the forest service that because of lack of logging the insects will soon destroy our forests. oh yes weve managed real well. weve managed to destroy in 30 years what man couldnt in the first 200 years. and yet those in the power structure will not allow any person into the forests log or to just pan for gold or mine an old mine because you have been taught that to find ways to make a living is wrong. or to buy bug killed trees and haul them in for lumber and keep the young strong trees from dying. weyerhauser developed a super tree back in the 60′s that could be commerciable in just 20 years. yet here we are with out jobs in an area shut down by activists paid for by the elite the IMf and the bank holders who today rob us blind. i know about the one world order as a mining engineer i saw how they stopped our ability to earn a living. you activists wake up or youl be carrying someones golf bag to the country club, and when your master is done with you its off to the fema camp of his choice.

    • http://victorbarney@embarqmail.com Victor L Barney

      Great response and true to a point! I’m not totally sold on any political party, especially the democratic party and I also will admit that many Republicans easily could be called democratic! But, I’ll first prefer a major party candidate(Democratic/Republican) who does not advance Progressive/Marxist New World Order Ideology! Did I mention, I also don’t approve of the Progressives when they help elect a Kenyan, Islam-trained, black president of America, out to destroy Israel economically, and being put over the top in the election-process by the “educated” white women vote! By the way, the Islamic movement is against Esaw’s half-brother, Israel, including Judah, who is not given the name Israel, only Joseph’s children were given that privilege, but became “lost” due to breaking the “Sabbath law” of Identity! Today Israel is Great Britain and the USA. More information for who we are and what truth is go to: icyahweh.org

      • Joe H.

        V.L. Barney,
        Your statement is true enough, you don’t need to bring color into it and give the Obamabots more ammo!!!

        • Claire

          Joe H—I agree with you, forget the color of a man/woman’s skin. It is the character of the man/woman that is at stake here. As with any president, character, integrity, forthrightness, honesty, self-confidence, trustworthiness, dependability, loyalty to God and America, plus adherence to the Constitution of the United States all come into play when being President of the United States. Sounds like a lot to ask for, but there ARE people with these attributes.

          • Claire

            Please notice that I said “people” not “politicians.”

      • J C

        Obama is half black and half white…and sadly his color is an issue.
        That color being red…Communist RED! His race(s) is/are irrelevant.

    • Veronica

      Quisno, your inability to speak in complete sentences, use proper grammar, or show any competence in the English language is an excellent example of how unintelligent both you and your statements are. You speak of evil foreigners yet write as though you can’t speak English. Your blatant ignorance completely demolishes any sense that could possibly have been gleaned from reading your comment.
      To further accentuate your mental failings are you under the impression that the Earth will survive as long as your god deems it should, regardless of immeasurable amounts of research that state the truth of the consequences of the destruction wrought by the human species? I know it’s pointless to post this, as there is clearly no way to hold an intelligent conversation with you, but it would be nice if there were at least a handful of people who could actually read what they write before clicking the submit button.

  • RoBoTech

    Another claim by gun control ass wipes that will be shown to be pure BS. EVERY TIME a decent bill is passed to loosen control over the Citizen, the Gun Control idiots start yelling about “OK Corral” or such nonsense. And EVERY TIME it proves to be the OPPOSITE!
    Prove Me Wrong. Not opinion, facts!

    • DaveH

      For sure RoBo.
      As was said, Arizona is very permissive with guns. But you know what, I haven’t seen anybody yet carrying an “assault” rifle around on the streets. So, why do these idiots think people are going to do it in the Grand Canyon?
      And personally the people I have known who disrespect the property of others are the Liberals.

      • Claire

        DaveH–as a former “Liberal” I have never disrespected the rights of others. And in return, I never expected others to disrespect my rights. It works both ways. Regarding the gun issue, criminals will always get guns. Anyone with any sense at all knows this. As far as I am concerned responsible gun ownership is not an issue, and should not be an issue. For the life of me, why don’t they go after the creeps that abuse the privilege instead of the honest, civilized, and mentally stable people. It is the wackos they should be concerned about. It doesn’t take much to figure out the nuts in the world.

        • DaveH

          Because the real criminals are dangerous. We are a lot easier to push around.

          • Claire

            DaveH–the voice of reason! Good day to you, Sir. Yes, we are easier to push around. but I have a feeling-no more! Oh, today I received a letter from Michael Steele-the Republican party and guess what?? I called the telephone number that was listed on the letter and I got through!! I told the guy to take my name off their mailing list, and when he asked me why, I told him I would never vote for another Republican. It made my day!

          • DaveH

            Way to go Claire.

          • Claire

            Daveh—I know!! I am so proud of myself!!

          • J C

            Welcome to the club Claire. :)

          • http://www.ccrkba.org. Dartanian

            Claire;
            Ok good. I was afraid you were never going to vote for any repubs ever again, and there are “some” really good conservatives in the Repub. party. There are also a few in with the dems.
            I have not heard anything bad about Michael Steel, except that a few conservative repubs. in congress think he is not conservative enough. I wonder if he is trying to move the party more to the center to try and appeal to more voters.
            …………………………………………………………………………………………..

            Dave H.
            I guess I used the term far right because that is how the media, and anyone and everyone who is not conservative, portrays us. Also they attach the right winger, far right winger, right wing nut job etc tags to us if we fully support the constitution. To them there is no moderate conservative, or center right, or middle right, they just always use the far right wing extremist moniker if we are anywhere to the right of the center where the moderates divide the middle ground between the left and the right.

          • Claire

            Dartanian–I will tell you why I do not care for Michael Steele. When he became chairman of the Republican party, I watched several of his speeches. At first, he tried to come across as a “rapper” and my old gut feeling popped up. There was just something about the man that made me believe he was not sincere (honest) in his efforts. He was trying to be a cool dude. Sure, we have to allow for some goofy actions when a person is “new” at their job, but with me, first impressions, body language, mannerisms, and the eyes tell a lot. Although his manner of speaking may have improved, I still see red flags with him. I do not believe him to be trustworthy.

        • http://www.ccrkba.org Dartanian

          Claire, Did you say you would never vote for another Republican? Or did you say/mean RINOS?

          • Claire

            At this time, a third party sounds very good to me. All Politicians backpeddle the minute they are in the White House/Congress, etc. I think it is time for a complete change.

          • Claire

            Dartanian: In addition to my first reply, a third party never receives the media attention and acknowledgment that the other two parties receive. Basically, I think it is unfair since we live in a free country. The news media always promote the so-called “popular” candidates while the other candidates are literally left in the background. A person can always tell which candidate the media prefers. I believe there have been lost opportunities for voters especially since some of the candidates that were left by the wayside may have been the best choices. However, I realize a third party basically splits the vote and for some of us, the vote can go the wrong way. Until such time a third party is truly recognized and receives the attention it should, then perhaps there will be a much better chance. I have said before that a third party must have a strong, viable and well-known candidate, but then again Jesse Ventura was elected governor of Minnesota. If people are truly disgruntled with both parties, then we may be in for a surprise this year and in 2012. I hope so.

          • http://www.ccrkba.org. Dartanian

            Claire;
            You are correct about 3rd parties never getting equal media time, and so they never get enough votes to win on the national level. I assume it is because they are conservative and the media is so far left wing/liberal/socialist.
            I am a Libertarian, and have liked Ron Paul for years, but the media is afraid of him so he never gets any coverage. He is the most conservative I have seen and is a Constitutionalist, and he really believes as I do on all issues. The problem is that he scares people who are not “far right” and he will never get enough votes on a third party ticket. He only splits the vote, so I always vote for the most conservative candidate on the republican ballot, so I don’t feel like my vote is wasted. I also vote for one very conservative democrat that we have locally (state).
            Claire, you never did answer my original question. What did you tell the RNC when you had them on the phone? Did you say you would not vote for any repub. ever again, or did you say rinos? Did you give them a reason why? Did they ask you why?

          • Claire

            Dartanian: I was transferred to the “member donor department” and a guy answered. I gave him my name and address and told him I had received a letter requesting a donation and that I wanted to be removed from their mailing lists. When the guy asked me why, I told him I would never vote for any Republican. I did not specify “RINO or otherwise.” After I told him that I did not want any future mailings, I hung up. Since the letter had Michael Steele’s name on it that was enough for me. I do not care for Michael Steele, he has turned me off literally, and I have never trusted him. Since I have been a registered Republican for over 30 years now, I may still receive their mailings. I guess I should have seized the opportunity to further explain my reasonings, but I didn’t. If I get another mailing, I will call again and make sure I give the reasons why. And yes, I will specify “RINO.”

          • DaveH

            Actually Dartanian,
            Party leaders on both sides fear the Libertarians. Any leader that embraces Crony-Capitalism is afraid of the Libertarians’ Free Market principles. And remember that the major media moguls like their high-paid jobs, so they too have a reason to fear the competition of free markets.
            Also leaders in both major parties like the money, power, and perks that come with their positions, so they have a vested interest in more Government, not less as the Libertarians advocate.
            By the way,
            I hope you don’t think of us as far-right, because we certainly aren’t. We are conservative in the Constitutional sense, but many people nowadays think of conservatives as being right-wingers. I think that many right-wingers are as against Liberty as are many left-wingers. They just have different agendas that they want to ram down our throats.

        • SiliconDoc

          To Claire I hope you took the time, or rather they allowed you to tell them WHY.
          They need to hear it.

          • Claire

            SiliconDoc–The guy did ask why, and all I said was that I would never vote Republican again. Like I told Dartanian I should have told him why, and next time I will. Normally I just return the mailings and tell them to take me off their mailing list, but I keep receiving them. So, the next time I receive anything from them, I will call again and tell them why.

        • http://personalliberty.com ED, SA, TX

          The gun grabbers don’t fear criminals. But they’re deathly afraid of hard working, law abiding, taxpaying gun owners. These are the folks who are most likely to defend their rights by force if necessary. If the gun grabbers succeed in taking away our guns, then they’ll go after our other constitutionally guaranteed rights to include private property. This is the kind of “profound systemic” change that the political left wants to bring about.

          • J C

            You have no real “right” to private property “now”. Disarmed, you have no rights, period.

      • eyeswideopen

        DaveH, have you ever taken responsibility for anything? You are always blaming the Dem’s for everything. Even a child would know that couldn’t be right. I suppose it is the Dem’s fault that you have a health issue isn’t it? You never answered my question, of what you want to do with all the taxpaying Dem’s? Are you going to change the Constitution so they can’t vote? Or are you just going to round them up and kill them? How will you identify them? Oh, yea, they are the minorities and Catholics, shouldn’t be too hard to do. Let the Anarchy begin.

        • http://www.ccrkba.org Dartanian

          Eyes, Are your eyes ever open? I mean “really” open?

        • JeffH

          eyeswideshut, can’t you ever stick to the storyline. You come in, both guns a blazin’, and as usual you start your “nagging”. No man in his right mind would ever consider anything with a bitter old bag blowing hot air all the time like you do. Go back to your liberal website and give some of us some peace and quiet from your constant anti-american spittle.

        • DaveH

          Eyes,
          You are really ignorant, aren’t you? I am not the one trying to force others to take care of me or my health. You and your Liberal Cohorts are. And you know that, but you are too busy being a (Liberal word deleted).

          • Joe H.

            DaveH,
            I think the word you are trying to think of would either be hack or hag!!!

          • DaveH

            Joe,
            It starts with Bee.

          • eyeswideopen

            Dave, you critize people for name calling and as your last post shows, you act like an infant.

          • DaveH

            Waah. Eyes called me an infant. Waah.

          • http://www.NRA.com Stephaan

            DaveH
            I think eyeswideclosed is STALKING YOU. She follows you around like a little puppy dog, and continually tries to get your attention with her posts. She loves ya, she hates ya, then she loves ya again. She doesn’t know what she wants but is only happy if she is following you around on here. This is a clear sign that she is stalking you!!
            Be afraid Dave, be verrrrrrrrry afraid ;-)
            …………………………………………………………………………………..
            eyeswideclosed: seek help!! :-)

  • Grinch

    Any time the libs or the anti-gun crowd are unable to make a valid argument, they go for the extreme shocking image. The so called “assault weapon” slung over the shoulder at the lip of the Grand Canyon.
    1. I am sure they do not really even know the true definition of an Assault Weapon.
    2. They have no idea that Concealed Carry means just that, concealed.
    3. It does not include rifles.
    4. They are unknowingly around people every day who carry concealed, and they are the safer for it.

    Crime drops with the institution of concealed carry laws. Facts prove it. And if they had any idea of the number of crimes committed in the parks every year, including attacks by animals, they would be happy there are conscientious and self preserving individuals who take the responsibility of defending their lives and the lives of their family and those around them serious enough to be prepared for what they hope never happens.

    • TIME

      Grnch,
      I agree with you.

    • Sweetness4Rock

      Awesome Grinch, to the point.

    • DaveH

      Arizona gun laws:
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_laws_in_the_United_States_(by_state)#Arizona

      We (adults) can carry without a permit in Arizona, as long as the weapon is visable. But, it is a rare event to see anybody with an open-carry pistol, and I personally have never seen anybody with any kind of rifle carried in public.

      • JeffH

        Also, here in California there are increases in “legal” open carry of unloaded handguns. The Brady Bunch has attacked Starbucks for not stopping this “insane” practice at some of their locations, but to Starbucks credit, if it is legal, they won’t prohibit it.
        Just more fearmongering by the antis!

        • DaveH

          Jeff,
          Did you mean to say “unloaded”?

          • JeffH

            Yes, open carry in California is legal as long as the gun is unloaded.

          • DaveH

            What good does that do you? Would you use it to pistol whip somebody? LOL.

          • JeffH

            With practice and proper training one should be able to arm his weapon within 2 seconds.

        • J C

          So you carry a clip in the same holster as the semi-auto pistol. With practice you can have a loaded gun in about 1 second. So much for sensibility in gun control.

          • JeffH

            J C, exactly what they do.

  • Tim

    I am for the right to bear arms, but we do need some gun control. We regulate how to drive a vehicle, with public safety in mind. I think gun ownership should likewise, be regulated.

    The problem at federal and state parks with this new law is, that there might be a tendency to shoot some wild animals, just for the sport of it. There also might be the tendency for violence to increase among humans, if for example, someone in the park happens to have a disagreement with another person. There might also be the tendency for a disturbing increase in the noise level from the sounds of many more guns being shot.

    I think the law should have been left right where it was.

    • blackhat

      Tim…you lie…”I am for the right to bear arms”…whatever, dude…That’s like saying I am for free speech as long as the govt controls what is said…since, after all, there might be a “…disturbing increase in the noise level from sounds…”

    • Tagley

      Tim, I believe there is a spot for you on MSNBC blogs(or the OBAMBI network as I refer to it) , GO AWAY!

    • Yandle

      Tim, your “if for example” is equivalent to “If my uncle had been a woman, he would have been my aunt”. Get some real world in your thinking. Take a look at the history of man and be rational.

    • TIME

      Tim, When I was younger I used to hunt, I don’t have time anylonger. But there are many who do, and its not up to me or you or Government to tell them they can’t.

      On that note how can you say that a few round shot off are going to effect the tree’s. Really hows thats work?

      I can tell you I have been all over the US, when I lived in Flag not far from the GC, when I went out on a hike, or climbing, I used to take a 380 with me in case I ran into a rattle snake. I never used it, but I had it none the less. {Its better to be safe than sorry.}

      As the old saying goes, Guns don’t kill peope, People KILL PEOPLE.

      Hunters are not out to hunt other hunters, thats “MOVIE CRAP.” I have never read anywhere about Hunters having a war shooting each other over who’s gun was bigger, and or who could make the most noise. Good God man when will you PLEASE wake up and stop with these crazy statments.

    • DaveH

      Tim,
      Where do you get your logic? To allow guns in the Parks does not mean shooting people or animals is allowed.

      And violent crime in gun-tolerant states has gone down, not up, as you would suggest with your statement:
      “There also might be the tendency for violence to increase among humans, if for example, someone in the park happens to have a disagreement with another person”.
      http://www.davekopel.com/2a/LawRev/ShallIssue.htm

      In fact the whole idea of allowing guns in parks is for the self-defense of those who might be accosted by somebody willing to murder others. And those with murder in their hearts are sure not going to give a damn if guns are illegal or not.

    • theaton

      Tim, driving on public roads is a privilege and carrying a firearm is a right. If I purchase an automobile and only use it on my private property, I don’t need to have a license nor do I need to register the vehicle. You should really take a basic civics class before you talk about rights.

      TIME, the Second Amendment has nothing at all to do with hunting.

      • TIME

        Theaton, I know that, I was simply illistrating the absurdity of a statment made.

    • JeffH

      Tiny Tim, once again you use no logic or common sense in your arguement. I’ve spent 100′s of days hunting on National Wildlife Refuge lands and have driven through many National Parks, with guns and without any incedents. This is a common sense law and nothing more or less.

    • Hello?

      Hey, Tim, I am a little slow but I am getting the picture now, I have read lots of your comments and you seem to always be the opposite of most everyone’s views. Tim is right and everyone else is wrong, now either you think that you are more intelligent than most everyone else or you are just posting these views just to sit back and laugh at the fires that you have set. Surely you don’t really believe all this crap that you post. You are playing with us but I enjoy it. Thanks.

      • Joe H.

        hello?
        the only thing Tim is playing with is that little pea brain that he takes out of his skull and tries to play marbles with!!!!

    • Warrior

      It seems to me that the majority of gun violence is among gangs/robbers/thiefs and highly edumacated college professor left wing nut jobs. We should demand gun control against these types!

    • http://www.NRA.com Stephaan

      Tim;
      There are at least 20 answers to your liberal socialist ideals post, over at the “new PRO GUN RIGHTS Virginia Law” thread! We would really like to see what your answers are to our posts over there. Why don’t you go over there and try and answer them and quit your frickin bellyaching here. Your crying is becoming redundant & very irritating. You are always on with the blah, blah, blah, but you never say anything of substance!

      • DaveH

        So true.

      • Joe H.

        way to post Stephaan!!!! So true!!!

  • Robin from Indiana

    Those for gun control are always going to have issues with any changes allowing citizens to ‘bear arms’… I don’t like guns, but regardless my family has guns and concealed carry permits, too. I hope we are never in a situation where we need to use a gun, but if we do, we will be prepared.

  • Dave

    “Crime drops with the institution of concealed carry laws. Facts prove it” Show me those facts. Would those be the facts that the US has 4X the homicide rate of any other country? Or how about this fact: “In 1999, there were 28,874 gun-related deaths in the United States – over 80 deaths every day. (Source: Hoyert DL, Arias E, Smith BL, Murphy SL, Kochanek, KD. Deaths: Final Data for 1999. National Vital Statistics Reports. 2001;49″. Next time you say the facts prove it, PROVE IT!

    • Sweetness4Rock

      Ah, the 90′s, just in time for Clinton-mania. Crime happens because it can. Crime doesn’t happen around me, because I don’t let it. I don’t have a gun (heck, I’m not even old enough), but I don’t need one to understand that protection is important.

    • DaveH

      http://www.davekopel.com/2a/LawRev/ShallIssue.htm

      It has been the experience throughout History that Socialist regimes have practice extreme violence against their citizens. Therefore, using your logic, we need to ban Socialists.

    • DaveH
    • DaveH

      Proving anything is entirely dependent upon the receptiveness of the person to whom the proof is offered. It is obvious to me, Dave, that you are one of those for whom no proof would suffice. Therefore, I provide these links for those without closed minds:

      http://www.gunfacts.info/pdfs/gun-facts/4.0/GunFacts4-0-Screen.pdf

    • duckmd1

      Dave: you want proof? Take a look at the sites concerning “crime rate” in Austrailia, Canada, all the countries that have “banned” gun ownership! Everyone of these places has seen a drastic rise in robberies, murders, rapes, you name it! Then take a look at Isrial, you will see men and yes even women, literally carrying loaded rifles, pistols and such even in the market places! Their crime rate is nill, and they live in the most violent area on earth! You “fear mongers” are the BIGGEST problem this country has. People can’t even make an honest living without someone like you jumping up and saying something to get all the rest of the “fear mongers” started! Most of these people who are attempting to control every aspect of my life, are a bunch of “trust fund babies” who have spent their entire life in some “college” getting “educated????” and have never even held a job, nor do they want to. They want “big brother” to take care of them, and if one of them stubs their toe on something, by God we’d better “ban” what ever they bumped into, so that it won’t hurt someone elses toe!!! Get your head out of that dark place you have it in, and open up your eyes! People like you are killing this country!!!

      • DaveH

        Duck,
        I have read a couple of the Australian articles on the crime rates following their gun ban, and their excuse is that the crime rate was already rising at the same rate before gun laws.
        But then weren’t the gun laws supposed to reduce that crime? They haven’t.
        Liberals will use any excuse they can to constrain the rest of us.

      • JC

        Hey duckmd,

        You make a great point but you can take Canada off the list…sort of.
        I lived in western Canada a number of years and have many gun owning friends there. Mostly they are Libertarians but not always. The government there is about to repeal registration of rifles and shotguns because after wasting a huge amount of money trying to implement the policy they figured it out…people are not going to register their guns. In a country of 33 million there are about 7 million gun owners that the government knows of.

    • http://www.ccrkba.org Dartanian

      Dave, you or your source are out of your frickin minds!
      28,874 gun related deaths in the U.S. in 1999 ? Just what do they consider GUN RELATED deaths? Are your sources some of the idiots like the Brady Bunch who count the criminals that are killed by cops, suicides by gun, and enemy and friendly war zone deaths and lump them all into gun related deaths? Apparently so. 28 thousand is frickin ridiculous and you need to check your sources. That’s the most ignorant statement I have ever seen posted here.

    • JeffH

      International Violent Death Rate Table Discussion

      “U.S. Leads Richest Nations In Gun Deaths” – AP article originally featured in CNN interactive U.S. news

      “In 1996 there were over 34,000 gun deaths in the U.S.” – Los Angeles Times, “Chicago Sues Gun Makers and Sellers”, p 1, Nov. 13, 1998

      “The United States leads the industrialized world in level of gun-related deaths.” – 1997-98 National Gun Policy Survey of the National Opinion Research Center, p 2 (citing two newspapers and the United Nations Study on Firearms Regulation)
      “Gun death” statistics are frequently cited, in the manner above, to strongly suggest that guns are the cause behind the high violent death rate in the U.S. As in the case of the Los Angeles Times article, no mention is made that over half of those violent deaths are suicides. The CNN article mentions gun homicides and gun suicides, but fails to show us the total violent death rate of other countries, not just gun deaths. For example, in Japan, where gun ownership is rare, its total suicide rate is higher than our total suicide rate.
      http://www.guncite.com/gun_control_gcgvintl.html

  • Sweetness4Rock

    For gun-rights overall. I know that this is for a National Park, but based on post before mine…it’s turned into life overall.

    Hi, my first post. Let me start out by pointing out that gun control does not control crime-like shootings. Gun control laws has no affect on murderers that own a gun illegally. In fact, the control holds back normal day to day citizens that wish they could protect themselves and their family but can’t because they got washed up in the, “Guns are bad, if you have one, we control it because you can’t handle your life.”

    So these gun-control bills and laws that keeps passing to enforce people….uh, it puts innocent people’s lives in danger. How many crimes with guns involve the criminal having the license for Carry and Conceal?

    You’re in a bank(hypothetically). You’re in line, tired and want to go home but you just got paid. You’re next, but a crazy man with a gun waltzes in and starts firing yelling, “GIVE ME THE MONEY!!!” What’s your natural instinct? I really want people to think…Take a minute because it’s important.

    2 scenarios.
    1.)You drop to the ground, hoping this blows over. Nope, he kicked you while you were down on his way to the cash. He’s making it out, but takes a hostage for a get away, “NO ONE CALL THE COPS!!!”. He shoots the hostage in the head outside the front window and runs….Man, you were even thinking of asking that nice blond out for a cup of joe 30 seconds ago.

    2.) You took classes on how to handle situations like this, you know how to aim and where to aim. He pulls out his gun, then 2 shots fire…His attention shot and your shot to his shoulder making him drop the gun, or you killed him with a chest shot. Personally I’d want him to stay alive and go to jail to meet Lee-Roy…The point is he’s down.

    I understand that there is people out there who will reply to this with their ideas of how, “If government had control in the first place the bad guys can’t get guns because they…..uh….. …Conservatives are evil!!!” And that’s alright if you believe that, I won’t insult you. But keep in mind, getting kicked in the ribs hurt and that blond is dead because of your trust in big government.

    Have hypothetical stories run through you head next time your at the bank or, yes, even National Parks. Government control will not protect you from the end of a barrel that’s held by a criminal…

    *Note: I’m not saying, “Buy guns and shoot people that look like robbers!”. I’m saying, “Use your God-given conscience and fight for your rights.”.

    • Sweetness4Rock

      Once again, my post is for life period. I just saw that the discussion started to leave National Park and go towards America in general. Being aloud to have a gun in a National Park is kick-a**. I’m actually shocked that something like this would pass. It’s our right and I fight for it.

      • JeffH

        This law was just a little tidbit from U-Know-Who, Oh Oh Oh Bama, to gain some trust. We all know who we can’t trust. For example, a pathalogical liar! I say no more…

        • Sweetness4Rock

          Yep, hook with bait they like. Thanks for the reply.

        • J C

          Off topic Jeff, but just for fun here’s a look at our “President”.
          http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5FlEbBZLzo0

          • JeffH

            JC, I just watched it and all I can say is MY, MY, it really doesn’t surprise me one bit. Somewhere therein lies the truth!

          • DaveH

            Good post Jeff.
            The real problem, though, is that we have let the Federal Government take on too much power over the decades. Without that increase in power, Obama would not have been able to do us much harm. Hopefully, now that people are seeing the results of this Oversized Government, they will start working hard to roll back the size and influence that Big Government has in our lives.

          • DaveH

            Sorry, JC, I meant “Good Post JC”.

          • J C

            Thanks guys, keep speading the word.

    • jim

      Hi Sweetness, As much as I would like the robber To meet Leroy, a wouded man can still shoot. For the safty of the other bank workers, cutumers and your self, a kill shot is more pragmatic.

      • Sweetness4Rock

        I 100% agree. I just wanted to get people in the mindset while their reading to know that it’s all about choice. And thanks for replying to my very first post on personalliberty.com.

        • jim

          Welcome aboard.

  • Thomas

    Just look at the crime stats, the states with the least gun restrictions have the lowest crime rates. State and cities that unreasonably restrict gun possession prevent the people from protecting them selves. Only the criminal have gun and they know they have free reign. They think twice before they kick in a door in states where there are no restrictions on law abiding citizens owning guns.
    Criminals hate a fair fight.

    • Joe H.

      Thomas,
      A little off subject, but as you mention kicking in doors, did you know that in almost all of the states a bounty hunter can kick your door in if he BELIEVES that the fugitive he is looking for is behind your door? he is protected by the law, too!!!

  • DaveH

    Protect all of our rights and shrink government. Vote Libertarian:
    http://libertarianparty.org/platform

    • theaton

      Protect all of our rights and shrink government. Vote American

      http://www.usconstitution.net/const.html

      As long as we focus on parties and not on the Constitution of the United States, we will get nowhere. There are plenty of good people out there to vote for. The problem with parties is money. When parties donate to campaigns, the candidate might, and in practice does, feel obligated to follow party votes. The minute you put a label on a person, other than American, you’ve lost the battle for freedom and liberty.

      • DaveH

        Would you buy unbranded items in a store? I hope not. Branding is a way of judging easily the quality that you might expect from that item. While being a member of a party does not guarantee a politician’s compliance, it does allow the party to discipline him/her for not representing their ideals. Just as an item from Sony doesn’t guarantee that the producing unit of their company has complied with their protocol, but that unit will definitely come under scrutiny from the parent company.
        Besides that, I haven’t seen any list of principles come anywhere near those of the Libertarians in regards to consistency and liberty.

        • http://www.ccrkba.org Dartanian

          Dave H,
          I know you are a fellow Libertarian, and I’m stuck on the wasted vote problem. How can I or you vote for a 3rd party candidate, when we know our votes will be wasted, because 3rd party candidates can never get more than a few million votes? I wanted to vote for Ron Paul, but knew it would be just another vote for Obama. Tell me smth that will convince me to vote 3rd party and waste my vote.

          • DaveH

            Wasn’t your vote wasted when you voted for somebody who didn’t really embody the principles that you support?
            We are here with this unconstitutional Government, because 100 years worth of voters kept voting for the lesser of two evils while the Government grew ever larger.
            The Liberals have grown to their current level because they have patiently infiltrated our schools and our news organizations.
            It is time for us to patiently build the Libertarian Party. We would get support from voters of both major parties if they knew what we really stand for. They don’t because too many people have been afraid to “throw away their vote”, thus very few people have even heard of us, let alone know why our principles would work.
            Thanks to Fox, Libertarians such as John Stossel, Glenn Beck, and Judge Napalitano are finally getting out the message. Although I must add that I don’t think Beck is pure Libertarian but he is close.

          • http://www.ccrkba.org. Dartanian

            Dave H
            No I don’t think my vote was wasted on Palin/McCain. They came a heck of a lot closer than Ron did to beating Osama, by some 50 million votes closer. I remember some media hack asked Ron Paul that same ques. and he said the same thing you did, but he could not convince me that he would get 50 million votes so I voted Palin/Mccain rino.

            I think a lot of people know about the Libertarian party because there is a description of our ideals in every voters pamphlet for every election. That is where I learned about them (before the internet was invented by al gory). Until the Libertarian party base population gets up to 40-50 million people I don’t see ever winning a national election, and that sux, and we will never be able to convert the young voters. They are so naive they believe everything that the liberals tell them, so how are we going to increase the base to 50 million? Wasting our votes by splitting them on 3rd party candidates is not the answer, because that will just give us 20 or 30 more years of liberal socialists in power. What is the Libertarian base number now? I know it is higher than the number of votes that he received, but I don’t know by how much.

          • DaveH

            Dartanian,
            Believe me, your vote was wasted on McCain. He is my state Senator and very Liberal. Calling John McCain a RINO would be an insult to the RINOs. I am hoping we can show him the door this year. I’m tempted to register Republican just to vote against him in the primaries. It does us no good at all to keep electing Big Government lovers whether they call themselves Democrats or Republicans.

          • DaveH

            Also, Dartanian, we will never reach the necessary size if people like you keep swallowing the split-vote scenario.
            Personally, I would rather have the candidate I believe in lose than to have a milk-toast second-choice win.

          • Joe H.

            DaveH
            You say you would rather have your person lose than vote for the lesser of two evils. Would you rather obummer get a second term? I know I wouldn’t! I would rather vote all the liberal hacks out, and that includes the liberal republicans,too!!

          • DaveH

            Joe,
            We got to this point because Republicans were also building Government ever-larger. If you want to see continued Government Growth, then keep voting Republican with your fingers crossed.
            Look how many people are finally waking up due to Obama and the Leftist Democrats. Maybe the best thing that could happen to this country if for Obama to get reelected and wake up the rest of the people before we forget what freedom was like.

          • http://www.ccrkba.org. Dartanian

            DaveH
            we will never reach the necessary size if people like you keep swallowing the split-vote scenario.
            ………………………………………………………………………………………………….
            A surprising answer Dave, and not very rational. You should save your sarcasm for non-Libertarians. When the liberal socialists see you and me in a pissin match on here, they laugh all the way to the polls.

            I’m not “swallowing” any split vote scenaro as you say. It is a simple matter of numbers, and the degree to which a vote is WASTED.
            Was your vote more wasted on Ron Paul, who only got 5 million votes(approx), or was mine more wasted on Palin/McCain who got 50-55 million (approx) and almost beat obama?

            If McCain/Palin had received all the 3rd party votes we might have had a different man/woman in the white house. I really don’t remember what the exact numbers were, but it was very close.(close enough for a recount)
            I do not want to live under a socialist regime for the next 30 years while the third party system gains a large enough base to win the presidency, and I certainly don’t want another 4 years of Osama if this happens again in 2012.
            A 3rd party may NEVER win the presidency, and I’m not going to waste my vote in the hopes that they will 30 years from now.

            I would be willing to “pledge” my vote to Ron Paul if 55 million other conservatives would. If he could show 50-55 million “pledged votes” a week before the election then hell yes I would vote for him, or any other Libertarian that I admired as much as him.

            You still have not answered my question I asked. How large is the Libertarian base?

          • Joe H.

            DaveH,
            Please answer the question I asked. Would you rather Obummer get the second term than vote for the lesser of two evils?

          • DaveH

            Dartanian,
            I wasn’t attacking you. I don’t know how else I could have said it. I’m surprised your skin isn’t thicker being a Libertarian. We get attacked by both sides constantly. It’s just something we have to get used to.

            And Joe,
            I will vote for the candidate that I think is best for the country. If the rest of the voter’s eyes are shut tight, then so be it.

          • http://www.ccrkba.org. Dartanian

            Dave H,
            I do fine deflecting the knives from the liberal socialists because they are coming from a greater distance. You never did say whose vote was more wasted, mine for Palin/McCain who almost beat Osama, or yours for Ron Paul who split the vote and allowed Osama into the white house?

            I ask again, (3rd time) how big is the Libertarian base. Help me out here, please, I really want to know.
            I see Ron Paul won the repub. straw vote yesterday. What do you think of the “pledged vote” scenario for Ron Paul that I mentioned yesterday? Could he organize something like this before 2012?

  • http://Don'thaveone Sally

    I may be stupid but what does Credit Cardholders Bill of Rights to do with guns being allowed in Parks? However, I must admit, if I were to take a walk in Central Park, not very likely however, I sure would want my husband with me with his weapon, legal or not

    • http://www.ccrkba.org Dartanian

      Sally;
      They attached it to the c.c. bill because they knew they would get the votes to pass it. By itself, it would have failed.

      • Joe H.

        Dartanian,
        this is why I believe that bills should have to be presented separate or give the president line item veto! It would cut out a lot of pork out that would not pass on its own merit!!!

        • DaveH

          I agree Joe. We need to let our Congressmen know that we are tired of the BS, and they are going to be out of jobs if they don’t keep the Bills simple.
          Part of the problem is that they have assumed control over so much of our lives that they don’t have time to introduce separate bills for each subject. We need to change that.

      • http://www.ccrkba.org. Dartanian

        I should have been more clear in my post above, as some of you seem confused by what I said. It was a win for us, and the second amendment, by attaching the two bills together. By playing the same game as the liberals, we came out ahead on this one! Otherwise the “guns allowed in Nat. Parks” bill would have failed, because it would not have gotten enough of the liberals votes to pass.

    • J C

      Burying questionable legislation in what looks like a good bill is how we have been losing our rights. No one reads a 1000 page bill which is why they are made so long. The authors of the bill know what they set out to do and bury their intent under another banner.
      It’s the American Government’s way of doing business and it stinks.
      The system is rotten beyond repair. What it needs is fumigation.

  • Grampy

    This just goes to show you how intelligent some people who work or have worked for the government are. I can close my eyes and in vision the CNPSR tucked away in their beds at night tightly holding their stuffed bunny rabbits soaking their depends while dreaming of the hordes of people carrying weapons in our National Parks strapped over their shoulders. (I omitted using the false term “assault rifle” for obvious reasons.) I am tired of being polite to morons such as Bill Wade. He is a jerk! I am very proud of Sen. Tom Coburn of Okla. He is one of the VERY few in our US government who openly stands up to those who would deny us our Constitutional rights.

    As for the posting Tim, you really need to get a life.

  • Sweetness4Rock

    Man, I am so glad that I’m not alone in subjects like this.

    • http://wwwNRA.com Stephaan

      Rock;
      You are not alone buddy! There are 90 million+ gun owners in the U.S. and an estimated 270 million guns. If you were a liberal socialist on the other side of the 2nd amendment issue, THEN you would be alone! Welcome to the site.

      • J C

        And I’d bet 10 American dollars that not one of those gun owners killed anyone today.

        • http://www.ccrkba.org. Dartanian

          Well J C, one of us might have killed a murderer, a robber, a rapist, a child molester, or a drug kingpin today. ;-)

          • JC

            And then I would be happily out of $60.00. ;)

          • DaveH

            Could you send that to me JC? lol.

  • Hello?

    I BELIEVE and I hope that I am not too paranoid but there is another reason we need to bear arms, if this Communist regime has power much longer and his purpose is to destroy our rights and economy. It may not be too far in the future that you will need a weapon to find food and I have never been too good with a sling shot and don’t like the taste of roots. Please get out and vote anything but these socialists. New blood, term limits. I am so glad to hear that there are still people that pass these new gun laws that will protect our citizens.

    • s c

      Hello? PLEASE give up on the idea of ever having functional TERM LIMITS in America. Protect the Second Amendment at all costs, and make life miserable for EVERYONE who hates the Second Amendment (especially politicians and all of their useful idiot chums).
      As long as we have people like queen nancy pelosi and her ilk in DC, America will NEVER have TERM LIMITS. Why don’t you understand that? It’s like asking a pimp to change his ways. It’s no different than expecting a drug addict to ‘see the light.’ And when it comes to being addicted to POWER [pelosi, reid, biden, Obummer, waxman, and the rest of the indictable suspects] we will NEVER get a chance to have TERM LIMITS. That’s reality, Hello.
      When foxes control the hen house, the chickens are SCREWED. Good intentions are absolutely useless when it comes to DC and ‘forcing’ power addicts to change their damned ways. WHY do people not understand that?

      • Joe H.

        SC,
        The answer is simple, just vote out the ones that are too progressive!!!!

  • http://gmail High Plains Pat

    As for the agreeingwith people against guns in parks, if some one gets into a squawable in a park and both drag iron well it would fair and would make people quit talking smack, someone just might close you pie hole, and it would help with civility in society. When you see a group of gang bangers if every was armed there might be a thinning of the pack of wild mutts.

  • James

    Senator Coburn did that because he finally realized that the Second Amendment’s “shall not be infringed” applies to the federal government. The law will have no effect within the States.

    • JeffH

      That will be defined this year…and the 2nd Amendment will then apply to all states.

  • ONTIME

    One year while visiting Glacier Park my wife and I stopped at the gate and I was asked if I was carrying a fire arm in the vehicle, to which I said yes, I was asked if I would check the gun in at the ranger station and I said no. During our visit which was a week in length, on the last day at jennifer lake while we had breakfast a report came in that a hiker had been attacked that AM by a bear and I thought about why he made that trip without carrying a fire arm. I am glad I had retained my own weapon for protection of my wife and I.

    • DaveH

      I was at Yellowstone, sleeping in the back of our station wagon, when I awoke early in morning to see somebody taking our camp stove. I scrambled out half-asleep and asked “what are you doing?”. It was a ranger. He said the grease on the stove could attract bears and he was going to take it to the ranger station, but that I could keep it in the car. Oh sure, it would be OK to keep it where we were sleeping! Anybody who knows anything about bears knows they can rip car doors off if they want. That’s government officials for you.

  • Warrior

    After this weeks events, besides more gun controls we also need more legislation over planes. We’ll just call it “plain controls”. We can assign more taxes and mandate more insurance coverage for crashing into all shorts of stuff. There should be a blue ribbon commission set up by the BIG “O” comprised of 100 dems/50 Rep/400 CZARS and a few dozen friends to study these issues and be required to report back in a few years. Now let’s get to it.

    • J C

      Warrior…using gun control logic, I guess we should ban planes altogether. Then we could move on to buses, steak knives, pointy umbrellas…
      You and I both know what a complete sham that whole line of thinking is.

      • Joe H.

        JC,
        IcePicks, don’t forget Ice Picks!! they have actually been used in murders, Too!!! In fact they have been used in “HITS”, Too!! makes just as much sense as guns…..NONE!!!!

        • jim

          Hi Joe, The first murder on record, Cain killed Able with a rock. I think all rocks should be registered. Because of arson, I say in california you should be finger printed and have a criminal back ground check to buy a box of matches.

          • JeffH

            Hey, terrorists use humans with bombs strapped around them. Maybe we should put a ban on humans.

          • DaveH

            Well, at least on the Liberal ones.

          • J C

            Or we could do what the Canadians did when they brought in “Long Gun”
            registration. They swamped the system registering everything from soldering guns to pointy sticks. Some even got gun licenses for their dogs. Hilarious, and a sign of what our neighbors think of the whole gun registry thang. ;)

  • http://www.NRA.com Stephaan

    The only crybabies that could possibly be against this law are the SAME IGNORANT LIBERAL SOCIALISTS that want more control over EVERYBODY, and the only ones that will be hurt by this law, are the criminals that heretofore saw the National Parks as a lucrative hunting ground for the honest unarmed citizen victims, and their personal property.
    Criminals, not knowing who is armed, and who is not, will think twice before committing crimes in the parks. It will deter crime, just as it has time and again, EVERYWHERE ELSE!

    The opposite effect ie: Wash.D.C., Chicago, Detroit, the strictest gun control laws, and yet the highest crime rates! The crime rates went up commensurate with gun control restrictions being established… go figure

    (CNPSR) The Coalition of National Park Service Retirees? What a bunch of Chumps. Apparently another group of libs that hasn’t got a clue, and has never done any research.

    • DaveH

      We were camping once, and our daughter (about a year old) started screaming in the middle of the night (too cold). So we got in the car and drove somewhere that we weren’t disturbing people and parked about 20 feet off the road to get some sleep. A bunch of rowdy kids drove by, saw us sleeping, and started yelling and banging the side of their car to wake us up. That was funny to them. But I sure was glad I practice my Second Amendment rights, just in case they got even more bizarre.

  • James Mangle

    This article is a joke. They are trying to convince readers that someone who goes through the trouble of being able to legally carry a weapon is going to be irresponsible enough to just start taking shots at anything that moves.

    These people who have these permits have PERFECTLY clean background, are state licensed by the POLICE, and have TRAINING!

    As I said, this article is a joke, please disregard it.

    • http://www.ccrkba.org Dartanian

      DISREGARD IT?????? I don’t think so James, and why would you even say that?
      We NEVER DISREGARD 2ND AMENDMENT ISSUES, or ANY OTHER CONSTITUTIONAL issues.

    • Joe H.

      james,
      Not anywhere, just in national parks!!! Everywhere else is a no,no!!!!

  • Dusted_Eagle

    If you really want to be chilled by firearms (sorry, I don’t call them guns or weapons) you better take a long read of this website. My outrage at our government, for allowing this to happen is beyond words. Read it anbd weep. Maybe it will goive you a clue as to another way that the liberals continue to rape the USA!

    http://www.desertinvasion.us

    • Joe H.

      dusted_Eagle,
      Why can’t we get all those tree hugger eco types up in arms against this?? they stopped water from being used to irrigate valuable farmland in Cal. due to a minnow and stopped the biggest solar power plant in the world due to a type of turtle and a type of lizard, seems that they would be interested in stopping the destruction of all the flora and fauna shown in these articles!!! hry eco-nuts ! Where are you????

    • DaveH

      Thanks for the Link, Eagle. I bookmarked it for future use.

  • Dusted_Eagle

    And, if you’d like to hire some of these guys as day laborers, here’s their personal website:

    http://www.daylaborers.org

  • Dusted_Eagle

    Now that I am a 100% disabled combat veteran, I not only refuse to visit any national park, I also live in a country, that I defended with my blood, that does not give me the liberty, safety and security I FOUGHT FOR to even walk from vehicle to and thru and back again from any store in the town I call home. Why is it, that legal American citizens have no rights, yet, the scum depicted in the two websites I quoted above have more rights to being in the USA, then I do!

    • http://www.ccrkba.org Dartanian

      Eagle;
      Thank you for your service to our country, and for the links that you posted. I am copying and sending them to all on my email list. Our southern border has been ignored by BOTH political parties for too long, and I don’t think this new LAME, LIBERAL SOCIALIST administration gives a damn about it either, since their main objective seems to be assaulting our Constitution instead.

    • libertytrain

      Dusted Eagle – I found your links very interesting – had never heard/thought about our lands being trashed by the illegals.

  • Rod

    Dusted Eagle, I know how you feel and I feel the people in Washington
    like Obama, Palosi and reid are selling us out to the LOWEST bidder.
    We have to fight back and I believe the American citizens are fed up
    with the lies thease people are telling. We have to VOTE people into
    office who do care about people like you and I and all the other guys
    and gals out here that served this country. I truly believe we will
    take this country back away from these radical left “elite Progressive’s”. We ALL HAVE TO VOTE! VOTE! VOTE!

  • James English

    Coburn is absolutely correct – it is about time.
    Now I can feel safe in the parks!!! and not be prosecuted
    as a felon for unknowingly or otherwise enter a NP with a
    pistol as I did in Arizona. People carrying guns are not the
    problem any more than those with planes or dogs or cars are the
    problem – those who use these in criminal activities are the
    problem. JE

    • James

      James E., just remember, the law is only effective in the federal national parks.

  • We the Indigenous People

    You who believe a man’s race and the religion of his other family members (who have the God given right to have a choice of spiritual denomination they so choose, even if not christian,) dictates his ability to be president are IDIOTS,and need to take your white hooded robes off.

    • James

      We the Indigenous People, Your comment is the only one here that used the term ‘race’. Think about it. Americans are speaking out against President Obama because of his socialist (government-control) policies. I think it’s fair to say that he will not be re-elected in 2012, because of that, not the color of his skin.

    • J C

      I can not stand Obama’s color….”Communist Red”.
      As for his race? Which one are we talking about. The man is a mix. And that’s just nature.

    • http://www.NRA.com Stephaan

      We the Indigenous People;
      You just don’t get it do you? IT’S ABOUT OBAMAS LIBERAL SOCIALIST POLICIES AND IDEALS NOT HIS SKIN COLOR!!
      YOU LOONY LIBERALS ALWAYS HAVE TO TRY AND MAKE IT ABOUT RACE, BECAUSE YOU CAN’T DEFEND HIS ANTI-AMERICAN IDEALS.
      You need to get “politically educated” before you start your racial ranting on here, because you just serve to make your liberal socialist party look like a bunch of idiots, (which they already are, but you are just making them look worse)
      Obama is half white and half black (mulatto) so if you are truly indigenous, then you are a native American, and Obama is more white and more black than you are, so why do you bring up the issue of his race?
      Why don’t you go to one of the “racist” web sites if you want to rant on about racism. This thread is about the 2nd amendment!

      • Joe H.

        Stephaan and others,
        Just ignore the ignorant!!! This poster is trying to piss you off and takes great glee in doing it! Don’t give him the satisfaction!!! I know it’s sometimes difficult but just ignore!!!

    • SiliconDoc

      Now wait a minute there feller. It’s you and your people who screamed at everyone else that since the guy was half black (you called him “black” no matter that he is half white – all in a big fat racist lie), and was a muslim child, and had citizenship from at least two other nations in his lifetime, and had professed he would stand with the muslims (and we have that on audio videotape) that his hope and change was everything we ever needed and wanted !
      Yes, it was ye who screamed about his skin color being the best qualification, and ye and yours that shed tears over it, and made it the biggest fattest lie we all had to go along with lest we be branded.
      So you better jump down off that donkey and apologize.

      • Judy

        Silicone Dork
        Blah blah blah, your ignorance is showing, when you can not debate the issues and start crying race. I have black friends on here and I have not seen them cry race card. You are just ignorant……….

        • JeffH

          You liberal hack! All you can do is name call! You talk about debate? To you, debate goes on a fishook…

      • Dylan

        Silicone Doc;
        Who the hell are you talking to here? James? Joe H? Stephaan? J.C.? None of them are donkey riders! I was just about to rail on you like Judy did, but your post is vague and could be directed at either side after I read it the second time and saw the “donkey crack”. Are you talking to We the Indigenous People?
        You need to put the persons name that you are posting to eliminate confusion. I haven’t seen you post here before so it is confusing. If you are posting your remarks to James, Joe H, J.C. or Stephaan, then I’m going with Judys comment! If not then please clear this up for me!!

  • http://personallibertydigest Pete

    How will states enforce this? Since federal law suppercedes state law if the Fed deciedes to chance its mind and outlaw guns in the park there is nothing the state could do. Bill or no bill.

  • J C

    From a newsletter I get:

    Since its inception as the National Council to Control Handguns over 30 years ago, the Brady Campaign has premised its entire agenda on the notion that having more gun control laws and, therefore, fewer guns, means that crime must necessarily decrease.

    History has not been kind to the group’s delusion, however. In recent decades, the severity of gun control laws has been diminished at the federal, state and local levels, the number of guns has increased by over four million a year on average, and today, the nation’s murder and total violent crime rates are at 45-year and 35-year lows, respectively.

    If you’re a gun control group, this isn’t the kind of thing you want to put in your press releases to the Washington Post, of course. So, every year the Brady Campaign instead runs a little gimmick where it assigns arbitrary school-grade values to whatever gun control laws the group happens to be pushing at the moment. And since most states don’t have the laws Brady advocates, Brady gives most states very low grades. Naturally, gun control supporters plaster Brady’s school-grade nonsense on the pages of newspapers around the country, hoping people will take it seriously.

    Brady came out with its 2010 “grades” this week, and once again we’ll take them as seriously as they deserve.

    With the nation’s murder rate having been cut in half since 1991, as Brady’s agenda has been dismantled or rejected by Congress and one state legislature after another, and the numbers of guns, gun owners, Right-to-Carry states, and carry permit holders have risen to all-time highs with no end in sight, here are the “highlights” of Brady’s annual exercise in school-grade silliness:
    http://www.nraila.org/Legislation/Federal/Read.aspx?id=5448

    • DaveH

      Gun Control is not about guns; it is about control.

  • JeffH

    Statement By NRA-ILA Executive Director Chris W. Cox Regarding Washington State Supreme Court Decision: Friday, February 19, 2010

    “We are pleased with the Washington State Supreme Court’s decision in State v. Sieyes yesterday, which stated that the Second Amendment applies to the states via the Fourteenth Amendment’s Due Process Clause.

    “The Court rightly held that ‘the history, lineage, and pedigree of the Second Amendment right to bear arms [is] necessary to an Anglo-American regime of ordered liberty and fundamental to the American Scheme of justice.’ The Court also stated that the Second Amendment’s protections satisfied the requirements for incorporation to the states.

    • JeffH
    • James

      JeffH, Courts (state & federal) have always held that the right to bear arms is a fundamental right, but have also held that the right is subject to the Police Power of a State. The Second Amendment was first incorporated, through the 14th Amendment, in Nordyke v. King, a Calif. case where a county ordinance had forbidden gunshows at the Alameda County Fairgrounds. This was challenged by Mr. & Mrs. Nordyke, who sponsored such shows.
      The 14th Amendment reads: “No State shall…deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law.” The Calif. Court held the right to bear arms was a part of one’s ‘liberty’ but upheld the ordinance because it didn’t deprive the Nordykes of their personal right to bear arms.
      In State v. Sieyes, Sieyes claimed a Washington State law was “an absolute prohibition on firearm possession by minors,” which at that time, he was one. The Washington S. Ct. held the Second Amendment applies to their state via the 14th Amendment’s due process clause, “however, Sieyes fails to demonstrate on this record that [the state law] infringes on his right to bear arms under either constitution.”
      So to-date, the fact remains that no state law has ever been held violative of the Second Amendment.

      • JeffH

        Your point is????

        • James

          JeffH, Most Americans believe the Bill of Rights, and especially the Second Amendment, applies to all governments (state and federal). It doesn’t, and only those two cases have applied it through the 14th Amendment.

  • jim

    When my wife and I were in Alaska last June it was the start of the salmon run. It was a National Forest and not a National Park, but since many fishermen were carrying a stringer full of a bears favorite snack and bears had been reported in the area many people were open carrying. I saw shotguns and large calibre pistols and nobody even batted an eye. just another day. This new law won’t effect much of anything exect to make things safer.

    • J C

      Exactly.
      But if someone gets run over by a Volkswagen just as it backfires the Libs will claim in was an AK-47. To them everything is an AK-47.

      • thefedupamerican

        You’re not kidding JC. My spouse once got accused of carrying a concealed handgun when some whack-job lib saw a computer battery in the side of a briefcase. Hysterical accusations ensued before the battery was revealed to be fairly non-lethal.

        • J C

          They are an irrational lot aren’t they?

  • Downsized

    The typical anti-gun advocate(AKA retard)is lost in fantasy land.It’s unbelievable to me.They actually believe that if law abiding citizens cannot legally own a firearm that somehow gun violence will magically dissapear.

    • J C

      Or that we’d be any safer.

      • Downsized

        Let’s just say for arguments sake that all guns were eliminated in the entire country.Not one gun in the entire country.Whet would you do to stop some home invaders from beating you to death with a ball bat,or hacking you up with a machete? I’m not as tough as I used to be due to my age,that’s just a fact that I have to deal with.How do I protect my home,my family? Answer; I can’t without an “equalizer”.If they make it a crime to own a gun then I guess I’ll have to become a criminal.

        • JC

          God made man…Smith & Wesson made them equal.

        • Joe H.

          Downsized,
          I think it would do the libbers would be well served if we could put up some stats as to how many crimes are commited each year with LEGALLY OBTAINED WEAPONS(see firearms)!!! I have tried to find it but not successful!!!

        • J C

          What would we do to stop a determined invader of the nation, let alone our homes? I remember during the LA / Compton CA. riots, seeing a guy on his roof with a full auto carbine defending his home from a mob on the street…”s*it happens” and that’s why we should always be prepared.

          • Downsized

            You’re absolutely right JC.If Reganald Denny had a gun that day….? I also think about what happened to the good folks in communities surrounding New Orleans.During the Katrina madness the local police went door to door and confiscated legal guns from law abiding citizens. I’ve searched for some stats on how many of those people were assaulted,robbed,burglarized or even killed.Either I’m not internet savy enough to find those stats,or they were maybe covered up? I don’t know, maybe some of you guys could help me out with that.I’m sure we’d all like to know.

          • JC

            The FBI is investigating 10 shootings (two dead) of civilians by the NOPD. The same NOPD that was so busy confiscating guns from law abiding citizens.
            Every now and then, tyranny, real tyranny shows itself right here in the Land of the Free. We need to stomp this crap out.

  • http://wwwNRA.com Stephaan

    Check out how many of Osamas czars are anti-2nd. amendment!!

    The Commander & Cheats appointed czars. Read who they are and what they want to do.

    Czar Position: Summary

    Richard Holbrooke: Afghanistan Czar
    Ultra liberal ANTI GUN former Gov. of New Mexico. Pro Abortion and legal drug use. PRIMARY OBJECTIVE, IS TO DISSOLVE THE 2ND AMENDMENT.

    Ed Montgomery: Auto recovery Czar
    Black radical anti business activist. Affirmative Action and Job Preference for blacks. Univ of Maryland Business School Dean teaches US business has caused world poverty. ACORN board member. Communist DuBois Club member.

    Jeffrey Crowley: AIDS Czar
    Radical Homosexual.. A Gay Rights activist.. Believes in Gay Marriage and especially, a Special Status for homosexuals only, including complete free health care for gays.

    Alan Bersin: Border Czar
    The former failed superintendent of San Diego . Ultra Liberal friend of Hilary Clinton. Served as Border Czar under Janet Reno to keep borders open to illegals without interference from US

    David J. Hayes: California Water Czar
    Sr. Fellow of radical environmentalist group, Progress Policy. No training or experience in water management whatsoever.

    Ron Bloom: Car Czar
    Auto Union worker. Anti business & anti nuclear. Has worked hard to force US auto makers out of business. Sits on the Board of Chrysler which is now Auto Union owned. How did this happen?

    Dennis Ross: Central Region Czar
    Believes US policy has caused Mid East wars. Obama apologist to the world. ANTI GUN and completely pro abortion.

    Lynn Rosenthal: Domestic Violence Czar
    Director of the National Network to End Domestic Violence. Vicious anti male feminist. Supported male castration. Imagine?

    Gil Kerlikowske: Drug Czar
    devoted lobbyist for every RESTRICTIVE GUN LAW proposal, Former Chief of Police in Liberal Seattle. Believes no American should own a firearm. Supports legalization of all drugs

    Paul Volcker: Economic Czar
    Head of Fed Reserve under Jimmy Carter when US economy nearly failed. Obama appointed head of the Economic Recovery Advisory Board which engineered the Obama economic disaster to USeconomy.. Member of anti business Progressive Policy organization

    Carol Brower: Energy and Environment Czar
    Political Radical Former head of EPA – known for anti-business activism. Strong ANTI-GUN OWNERSHIP.

    Joshua DuBois: Faith Based Czar
    Political Black activist-Degree in Black Nationalism.
    ANTI GUN OWNERSHIP lobbyist.

    Cameron Davis: Great LakesCzar
    Chicago radical anti business environmentalist. Blames George Bush for Poisoning the water that minorities have to drink. No experience or training in water management. Former ACORN Board member (what does that tell us?)

    Van Jones: Green Jobs Czar
    (since resigned).. Black activist Member of American communist Party and San Francisco Communist Party who said Geo Bush caused the 911 attack and wanted Bush investigated by theWorld Court for war crimes. Black activist with strong anti-white views.

    Daniel Fried: Guantanamo Closure Czar
    Human Rights activist for Foreign Terrorists. Believes America has caused the war on terrorism. Believes terrorists have rights above and beyond Americans.

    Nancy-Ann DeParle: Health Czar
    Former head of Medicare / Medicaid. Strong Health Care Rationing proponent. She is married to a reporter for The New York Times.

    Vivek Kundra: Information Czar
    Born in New Delhi, India. Controls all public information, including labels and news releases. Monitors all private Internet emails.

    Todd Stern: International Climate Czar
    Anti business former White House chief of Staff- Strong supporter of the Kyoto Accord. Pushing hard for Cap and Trade. Blames US business for Global warming. Anti- US business prosperity.

    Dennis Blair: Intelligence Czar
    Ret Navy. Stopped US guided missile program as provocative. Chair of ultra liberal Council on Foreign Relations which blames American organizations for regional wars.

    George Mitchell: MideastPeace Czar
    Fmr. Sen from Maine Left wing radical. Has said Israel should be split up into 2 or 3 smaller more manageable plots. (God forbid) A true Anti-nuclear ANTI-GUN & pro homosexual “special rights” advocate

    Kenneth Feinberg: Pay Czar
    Chief of Staff to TED KENNEDY. Lawyer who got rich off the 911 victims payoffs. (horribly true)

    Cass Sunstein: Regulatory Czar
    Liberal activist judge believes free speech needs to be limited for the common good. Essentially against 1st amendment. Rules against personal freedoms many times like private GUN OWNERSHIP and right to free speech.

    John Holdren: Science Czar
    Fierce ideological environmentalist, Sierra Club, Anti business activist. Claims US business has caused world poverty. No Science training.

    Earl Devaney: Stimulus Accountability Czar
    Spent career TRYING TO TAKE GUNS AWAY FROM AMERICAN CITIZENS! Believes in Open Borders to Mexico . Author of statement BLAMING US GUN STORES for drug war in Mexico .

    J. Scott Gration: Sudan Czar
    Native of Democratic Republic of Congo. Believes US does little to help Third World countries. Council of foreign relations, asking for higher US taxes to support United Nations

    Herb Allison: TARP Czar
    Fannie May CEO responsible for the US recession by using real estate mortgages to back up the US stock market. Caused millions of people to lose their life savings.

    John Brennan: Terrorism Czar
    Anti CIA activist. No training in diplomatic or gov. affairs. Believes Open Borders to Mexico and a dialog with terrorists and has suggested Obama disband US military

    Aneesh Chopra: Technology Czar
    No Technology training. Worked for the Advisory Board Company, a health care think tank for hospitals. Anti doctor activist. Supports Obama Health care Rationing and salaried doctors working exclusively for the Gov. health care plan

    Adolfo Carrion Jr: Urban Affairs Czar
    Puerto Rican born Anti American activist and leftist group member in Latin America . Millionaire slum lord of the Bronx , NY. Owns many lavish homes and condos which he got from sweetheart deals with labor unions. Wants higher taxes on middle class to pay for minority housing and health care

    Ashton Carter: Weapons Czar
    Leftist. WANTS ALL PRIVATE WEAPONS IN US DESTROYED. Supports U.N. BAN ON ALL PRIVATE FIREARMS OWNERSHIP IN AMERICA. Has no other policy

    Gary Samore: WMD Policy Czar
    Former US Communist. Wants US to destroy all WMD unilaterally as a show of good faith. Has no other policy.

    How lucky are we that these are the people who are helping Obama in the RUINING of our 2nd. amendment, our Constitution and our country.

  • Harold

    We all know that it’s a good thing that law abiding responsible citizens can & should carry a fire arm. In every state that the new laws have gone into effect the crime goes down. Just look at the animal attacks that could have saved a life. Bickers & joggers have been injured or killed & eaten in our national parks. And women have been abducted and brutalized. I teach Firearms safety & concealed carry in Michigan. I believe that a woman needs a handgun to carry. It’s a nice equalizer. Did you know that in a recent Chicago rights case that went to the Supreme court WAS a split decision. 5 for the bill of rights 2nd amendment & 4 against. What a no brainer. This should have been a unanimous decision for the right to keep and bear arms. Justice Sonia Soda Mayor actually said she could find nothing in the constitution that have an individual the right to keep and bear arms. Think about that & other decisions. If we get the wrong people on that court they can legislate away all our rights.

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