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Cliffs: Fiscal And Real

January 2, 2013 by  

Cliffs: Fiscal And Real

It seems our elected representatives in Washington celebrate the English tradition of Boxing Day. That would explain why Congress took off Dec. 26 before coming back last Thursday, even though the Nation is facing an economic catastrophe.

Like most of you, I was working on Boxing Day and read that President Barack Obama cut short his Hawaii Christmas break to get back to Washington to deal with the impending fiscal cliff.

Monday was the deadline for $600 billion worth of tax hikes and spending cuts.

Economists predict these tax increases and spending cuts could send the U.S. economy back into a recession by the end of next year. Americans will see their January paychecks shrinking as they pay higher taxes that automatically engage unless the George W. Bush tax cuts are extended.

It is expected that the average middle class family will see its tax bill go up by about $2,000 a year.

Regardless of whether Congress was able to cut the mustard before yesterday, a second economic shoe may have already dropped. The United States may have already fallen into a renewed recession. This would make Congress and the President a day late and a trillion dollars short by the time something meaningful is done.

It is already being reported that U.S. holiday retail sales this year were the weakest since 2008. That was the Christmas the Nation was in its deepest recession since the Great Depression.

There is already a litany of excuses as to why retail sales were weak this past Christmas, including bad weather (as if the United States always has good weather in December).

In the final analysis, millions of Americans didn’t spend what they typically do this time of year because they fear that the wheels on the American economy have already slipped over the edge of a very steep precipice.

The Log Jam Of 1983

My Dad, Vern, had a tradition to cut lumber off his acreage at the start of the new year. So it was on Jan. 1, 1983. My best friend, Dave, and I were riding on the wheel covers of Dad’s red Massey Ferguson 35-horsepower tractor, which had a front-end bucket to load logs on after they were cut down with a chain saw.

Men of my generation like to golf or ski, but Dad had been through the Depression and, regardless of any financial success he earned, he was determined to be self-reliant even through his later years. That meant growing a large garden in the summer, canning vegetables in the fall and cutting wood in the winter. He kept a potbellied woodstove in the kitchen and functional fireplace in the living room.

He had 80 acres of land near Chattaroy, Wash. Half of it was on a plateau; that’s where he grew Northwest poplar trees and had a corral for his two horses. The other 40 acres was on a steep slope facing north; it was full of wild ponderosa pine trees.

While he loved the outdoors, my father’s mind typically wandered as he thought about where the economy was headed and, therefore, where his subscribers should invest their money. You can imagine that in cases with machinery and gravity, this could be a hazardous combination.

Besides the gears, the Massey had a high drive and a low drive. We were only in second gear as Dad pointed the tractor toward the steep slope. While I was not nearly as experienced with machinery as Dad was, I had grown up around tractors and I knew we were in high drive as we headed down the steep trail that twisted and turned between the 50-foot high pines.

“Dad,” I shouted over the engine, “we’re going too fast!”

He must have had his mind on the markets. On what was a grade of more than 10 percent, he made a critical error. He forgot the tractor didn’t have a synchromesh transmission. You couldn’t gear it down like it was a sports car. So when he put his left foot on the clutch and tried to shift to low, the 2-ton tractor began to freewheel.

Immediately, we were going dangerously fast, perhaps 20 mph, with Dave and me holding on for our lives.

Dad had the presence of mind to hit the brakes — specifically, the left brake. The Massey had a single brake for each back wheel. That allowed the operator to pivot it. In case of an emergency stop, both brakes should be applied by landing your foot squarely on both of them.

The left rear wheel bit hard, but the right rear wheel continued to spin. The tractor did a sharp pivot. For a moment, I thought it was going to roll.

We got lucky that day. The tractor came to a complete stop. Dad put the gearshift into low, and we slowly continued down the trail to the fallen pines that needed to be culled. A few hours later, the firebox outside the house was full and the fireplace was ablaze.

No Such Happy Ending For America

It would be one thing if America had to endure the fiscal cliff that was presented Monday. But the Nation is so deeply in debt that we face a continuous series of cliffs. The President and Congress are either unable or unwilling to see that the Nation safely navigates this trail. Sooner or later, that means the odds are going to catch up with America, and there is going to be a wreck. In this case, it won’t be just three people; it will be 300 million.

Yours in good times and bad,

–John Myers
Editor, Myers’ Energy & Gold Report

John Myers

is editor of Myers’ Energy and Gold Report. The son of C.V. Myers, the original publisher of Oilweek Magazine, John has worked with two of the world’s largest investment publishers, Phillips and Agora. He was the original editor for Outstanding Investments and has more than 20 years experience as an investment writer. John is a graduate of the University of Calgary. He has worked for Prudential Securities in Spokane, Wash., as a registered investment advisor. His office location in Calgary, Alberta, is just minutes away from the headquarters of some of the biggest players in today’s energy markets. This gives him personal access to everyone from oil CEOs to roughnecks, where he learns secrets from oil insiders he passes on to his subscribers. Plus, during his years in Spokane he cultivated a network of relationships with mining insiders in Idaho, Oregon and Washington.

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  • Jeremy Leochner

    It is very sad that Congress and The President are unwilling or unable to come to an agreement and make hard choices. Many of the Republicans were elected on a platform of not raising taxes and making significant spending cuts. While President Obama repeatedly promised he would get rid of the bush tax cuts on the top 2% of earners while at the same time reducing government spending without curbing social services. So both are struggling to keep their promises. The Republicans seem unwilling to budge on the issue of tax increases while the Democrats seem unwilling to budge on the issue of spending cuts. It is a tough issue so I propose a compromise. We allow the bush tax cuts on the top wage earners to expire thereby raising the marginal tax rate on those wage earners by 4.6%. This will help to increase revenue and remove one of the principle contributors to the deficit as explained by the Center on Budget and Policy Priorities:

    In return the Republicans can put forth their ideas for what needs to be cut and perhaps some compromise can be reached as to how much should be cut or at the very least in return for accepting the expiration of the bush tax cuts on the top 2% the Republicans will get the spending cuts they wish. That I think would be a good first step. Lord knows we need to get spending under control. It has to decrease. And we need to start paying off the deficit and the interest on the debt to try and slow its increase. This compromise will allow the government to both increase its revenue and decrease its bills. Mr. Meyers mentioned how a major reason for the lack of Christmas spending by consumers was due to many peoples “fear that the wheels on the American economy have already slipped over the edge of a very steep precipice.” I would imagine the American people would be greatly relieved and some of their confidence restored by the knowledge that not only has government spending decreased but that the government is dedicating more money to paying off the debt and deficit.

    • Warrior

      Wonder if the “middle class” knows about the “inflation adjusted bracket creep” yet? As Gomer said to Andy, Suprise, Suprise, Suprise.

      • FreedomFighter

        1. End the Federal Reserve and tell them to write off the interest, America is tired of being ripped off.

        2. Congress starts issue of real money

        3. Bring all our troops home, put them on our borders to end illegal immagration and the drug trade.

        4. Put the entire current Obama administration on trial for treason, subversion of the constitution, embezzelment, conspiracy and about 200 other felony crimes.

        5. Tell our enemies, no more, if we have to come to your country — we take it and keep it.

        6. Jail the international bankers

        Laus Deo
        Semper Fi

      • Chocopot

        Freedom Fighter -

        You and I are brothers because clearly we think alike. All of your proposals are outstanding – but as we both know, none of them will ever happen. As much as I do not want to say it, this country as we know it is finished.

      • sam1966

        Well said Freedom Fighter, fellow patriot. Just don’t expect Jeremy to understand. I’m with you all the way on this one. Here is a video showing that the likes of Jeremy, along with other 5th columnists, cannot censor our messages anymore. Their ways are the ways of hate and bigotry, which there is no room for in America.

        I know it may not be the topic, but it does deal with the libturds and progturds of today. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY! 하나님하고 나라를 위해서!

        You need both love of country and faith in God to be a patriot. This leaves Jeremy out.

        “Senate. Provided, nevertheless, that no person shall be capable of being elected a senator who is not of the Protestant religion.

        House of Representatives. Every member of the House of Representatives shall be of the Protestant religion.

        President. He shall be of the Protestant religion.”

        Article 5
        New Hampshire State Constitution

      • SJJolly

        FreedomFighter: Put troops on the border? Meaning our border with Mexico, right? We also have a border with Canada. Plus coast lines, on the Atlantic, Gulf of Mexico, Pacific, and Arctic, all of which can be used for entry of illegal immigrants and drug smugglers. Guardng all of these still leaves the problem of home-grown and home brewed illegal drugs.

    • Nancy in Nebraska

      Either you haven’t heard or have selective hearing like other liberals. The republicraps DID offer a compromise! The problem lies in the fact that the democraps won’t allow spending cuts. Big surprize! So last I heard, we’re gonna raise taxes on the rich and keep spending to oblivion! What better way to destroy the country?!? We have gotten to the point where it doesn’t really matter how much they tax people. Even if they took 100% of everybody’s earnings, we cannot sustain their out of control spending!!! Yet, they’re not willing to stop! The only explanation for this is that they’re TRYING to destroy our country!!! I cannot for the life of me, understand how anyone could stay in denial any longer! It is obviously their INTENT to destroy the dollar, destroy the economy and destroy the well being of every one of us! These people aren’t totally stupid. This isn’t happening by accident! Even a moron would understand that by borrowing(?) and spending trillions of dollars we don’t have and can’t pay back, they are destroying our country! The only possible explanation for stupidity like this, is that it is by design!!! When will liberals WAKE UP?!? Are they too stupid to see reality?!? People keep talking about congress not willing to work together. What about the American people?!? Can WE work together to stop the government from destroying our country?!? Or will we sit back and deny that which is right before our eyes?!? Will we wait until it’s too late?!? Will you EVER wake up?!? The alarm went off a long time ago!!!

      • Poor Old RAY

        Very well put Nancy, I couldn’t have said it better myself. I agree with you 100%. I would add however, that no one seems to recognize that God is ultimately in complete control and if we as a nation don’t turn from our sinful ways (abortion, adultery, fornication,cheating, stealing lying, ect., ect) and thumbing our collective noses at God and His commandments and turn back to the God that has poured out his blessings and made this nation the greatest nation in all of history then this nation will soon be piled on the junk heap of empires and nations that have flourished for a season, forgotten God and was destroyed for the same reasons. Do we ever hear any of our leaders even mention our absolute dependence on the omnipotent, merciful hand of God? No, we have socialist party #1 (Democrats) and socialist party #2 (Republicans). Both seem to have the same agenda, a Global government. They just ACT like they are fighting one another. The few that are sincere patriotic officials are nor even given a voice.

      • Nancy in Nebraska

        Poor Old RAY, I absolutely agree with you!!! When speaking to liberals and trying to get them to SEE what is happening, I avoid mentioning GOD because most of them are atheists! Although GOD IS the most important factor in the equation, I feel that we have to START somewhere! When they see the word GOD, their brains go into attack mode! They see red and cannot be reasoned with on any level. Baby steps!

      • Bob

        You are both so right on our politicians are purposefully destroying our country and we’re just setting back watching it happen. Very disgusting to have treasonous politicians in charge of our country!

      • Walt

        There is a distinct odor of the shadowy Cloward-Piven strategy as the taproot of abusive practices that have triggered our economic crisis. The strategy’s goal is to bring about the fall of capitalism by overloading and undermining government with bureaucracy and debt.

        Developed in the mid-1960s by two Columbia University sociologists, Andrew Cloward and Frances Fox Piven, much of their strategy was drawn from Saul Alinsky, Chicago’s notorious revolutionary Marxist community organizer. The same Saul Alinsky whose book, “Rule for Radicals” was taught by Obama to other Chicago community organizers.

        The Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now (ACORN) succeeded the National Welfare Rights Organization in the execution of the Cloward-Piven grand tactics of using the poor as cannon fodder to tear down the capitalist system. It was low-income, mostly black and Hispanic people, who were used by ACORN guerrillas to take subprime toxic mortgages.

        The socialist test case for using society’s poor and disadvantaged people as sacrificial “shock troops,” in accordance with the Cloward-Piven strategy, was demonstrated in 1975, when new prospective welfare recipients flooded New York City with payment demands, bankrupting the government. As a consequence, New York State also teetered on the edge of financial collapse when the federal government stepped in with a bailout rescue.

        The 2008 financial crisis has all of the earmarks of a Cloward-Piven strategy assault against the capitalist system. Stanley Kurtz of the Ethics and Public Policy Center recently explained that “community organizers” (1) “intimidate banks into making high risk loans to customers with poor credit,” (2) “occupy private offices, chant inside bank lobbies, and confront executives at their homes,” and, through these thuggish tactics, (3) compel “financial institutions to direct hundreds of millions dollars in mortgages to low-credit customers.” “In other words,” Mr. Kurtz explained during a presentation at the Hudson Institute’s Bradley Center for Philanthropy and Civic Renewal, “community organizers help to undermine America’s economy by pushing the banking system into a sink-hole of bad loans.”

        The above excerpts were taken from an excellent article written by Robert Chandler:

        The Cloward-Piven Strategy
        By Robert Chandler – October 15, 2008

        Robert Chandler is a retired Air Force colonel and former strategist for the White House, the Departments of State, Defense, Energy and Justice, and the CIA.

      • Nancy in Nebraska

        Walt, I am familiar with all that you said and you are RIGHT!!!

      • Chocopot

        Nancy -

        Anyone who spent any time on the Internet prior to the 2008 election checking on the background of the liar/fraud/phony/poseur currently occupying the White House unconstitutionally would know that the strategy from day one was to destroy this country by destroying its economy, the greatest the world has ever seen. The only obstacle to the One World Government that is being worked toward by the uber-wealthy, led by George Soros, is the United States of America. Destroy us and they get their goal. Anyone who thinks Bozo is a failure or has been unsuccessful simply does not understand the real goal. In fact, he has been remarkably successful, to the utter detriment of this country and its citizens. Far too many do not want to see the truth and the facts.

      • Jeremy Leochner

        Nancy I would have to disagree. The Democrats offered the Republicans a compromise of 10 dollars of spending cuts for every dollar of raised revenue and the Republicans said no that’s not enough spending cuts. This issue is not one party is good and the other is bad. Both parties are being stubborn and inflexible.

      • Nancy in Nebraska

        Jeremy, where’s your proof?!? I read that the dems would cut spending by $1 for every $41 in tax increases!

      • Jeremy Leochner

        I apologize Nancy. I misinterpreted based on what I read about the Norquist anti tax pledge:

        I saw the figures you mentioned. I was unaware of those. I apologize. That was my mistake.

      • Donald

        Yes Nancy, it is be design. There are 2 ways to Enslave the people, 1 is by force (that’s why they want Gun Controll, it makes it easier), 2 is by Debt ( bankrupt the masses and it’s very easy for the Government to take over). Higher taxes and out of controll Government spending only does 1 thing, it allows the Government to exert more controll over “We The People” and Gun Controll allows the Government to exert that controll even easier. Remember this, Communism in it’s ideal form, would never be excepted in America, Disguise it and call it Liberalism and the Sheep will follow !

      • Jeremy Leochner

        Donald I am a liberal and believe in liberalism. I support some forms of gun control but not gun bands. I support slightly higher taxes as well as reduced spending. I do not support communism nor would I ever support it. I think your issue is with communism not liberalism because they are not the same.

      • Jeremy Leochner

        My mistake. I meant to say I do not support gun bans.

      • sam1966

        Walt, Bob, Nancy, and Poor, well said fellow patriots. Jeremy says that he does not support gun bans? Good. I see Jeremy still believes in our God-given rights as are written in the 2nd Amendment. See Jeremy, we both do think alike in some small areas. Now, just try to get out of the 5th column’s camp, OK? Here is something showing how the libturds and progturds are gearing up the death panels found in Obama bin Laden Care:

        FOR GOD AND COUNTRY! 하나님하고 나라를 위해서!

        You need both love of country and faith in God to be a patriot.

        “That no other test or qualification ought to be required, on admission to any office of trust or profit, that such oath of support and fidelity to this State, and such oath of office, as shall be directed by this Convention or the Legislature of this State, and a declaration of a belief in the Christian religion.”

        Article 35
        Maryland State Constitution

      • sam1966

        I just found this about how Obama bin Laden wants to raise taxes this year again. Sheesh! Don’t we pay enough already?

        FOR GOD AND COUNTRY! 하나님하고 나라를 위해서!

        You need both love of country and faith in God to be a patriot.

        “It is the right as well as the duty of all men in society, publicly and stated seasons, to worship the Supreme Being, the great Creator and Preserver of the universe. And no subject shall be hurt, molested, or restrained, in his person, liberty, or estate, for worshipping God in the manner and season most agreeable to the dictates of his own conscience, or for his religious profession or sentiments. Provided that he doth not disturb the public peace or obstruct others in their religious worship.”

        Article 2
        Massachusetts State Constitution

    • Eugene Sevene-THE PATRIOT

      Your idea is great accept for the fact that Obama now has the approval of the nation to do as he wishes and that is to do it his way or not at all. He is a very good speaker and can fool most of the people of this country most of the time.The fact is he is the first black president and he is bent on showing the white folk how to do it. Now I understand that to bring this up will mean that this will not be posted because the liberals are the only ones allowed to discuss race and prejudice. I am not prejudice for I believe that the N word has nothing to do with color but has to do with frame of mind and life style. There are those people on both sides of the color. We as Americans can be bothered with the race thing, it has no place in this society. Unfortunately it is still here and we need to wipe it out. Having said all this There will never be liberals and conservatives working together for the good of the whole. It is my opinion that there are those that would control the whole and will do anything to accomplish that end. In short we are doomed because of our own stupidity for we, as the politicians can not and will not work together

      • Nancy in Nebraska

        obumass does NOT have approval of the nation!!! The election was a FRAUD!!! We are more divided than ever, which is their INTENT!!!

      • Jeremy Leochner

        I do not think the differences between liberals and conservatives are so irrevocable Eugene. I think the big step is to acknowledge that Liberals and Conservatives are really not that different in their opinions. The differences between the two is more one of levels and measures as opposed to fundamental differences in ideology. I tend to identify myself as a liberal but I have some conservative views and some libertarian views. My father is a conservative and I have a friend who identifies himself as libertarian. I have had talks with both of them and in both cases I have found that our political views really are not that different. We all want the same thing. We just disagree on precisely how to get there. But that’s where compromise and discussion comes in. When we calm down the rhetoric and stump speeches and just sit down and talk we tend to be more reasonable and accommodating.

      • Donald

        Eugene, 60% of voting age folks did, and OblameA got 51% of that vote. So almost 31% of eligible votes said yes to him. My math could be wrong (It’s NOT) but,31% isn’t a majority. A movie called Brewsters millions with Richard Pryor had a part about a vote, and he told the people to vote “None of the Above” and 40% of America did just that in the election. That is the real majority, Thank you

      • Vicki

        Jeremy Leochner says:
        ” My father is a conservative and I have a friend who identifies himself as libertarian. I have had talks with both of them and in both cases I have found that our political views really are not that different. We all want the same thing. We just disagree on precisely how to get there.”

        Good to hear. Now what is it that you believe we all want? And how do YOU propose we get there? Keeping the answers short is a plus.

      • speedle

        Jeremy, I don’t think you truly understand the difference between liberals and conservatives. First you have to separate the Progressive “Statist” from the “useful idiots” The Statists (Obama, Reid, Pelosi and the ruling class) are only interested in power and creating the ultimate “State” in which the elite control and take care of the Proletariat. They use the useful idiots to get power by patronizing their “special interests” (tree huggers, minorities, unions etc.). The national debt means absolutely nothing to them because they want to bring the system down and rebuild it in their version of a “fair society”.

        Conservatives always err on the side of personal freedom and liberty for the individual. That means protecting that liberty above all else. There are always arguments about how to best do that (war or no war, how to tax, etc.). True conservative leaders don’t seek power for the sake of power (which is why they always get their asses kicked in political squabbles. It’s professional politicians vs. amateurs.

        Don’t be offended by the term “useful idiots”. That doesn’t mean that you are stupid to be a liberal who thinks he has “high ground”. It just means you haven’t figured it out yet.

      • sam1966

        First, if you think we are all behind Obama bin Laden, you are seriously mistaken Eugene. Second, well said Speedle. The same name as one of the CSIs on CSI Miami. Here is an article dealing with how libturds and progturds are keeping this great country divided:

        FOR GOD AND COUNTRY! 하나님하고 나라를 위해서!

        You need both love of country and faith in God to be a patriot.

        “Can the liberties of a nation be secure when we have removed a conviction that these liberties are the gift of God? That they are not to be violated but with his wrath?”

        Thomas Jefferson

      • Jeremy Leochner

        Vicki. We all want a government of, by and for the people.

    • charlie

      “In return the Republicans can put forth their ideas for what needs to be cut and perhaps some compromise can be reached”.
      News Flash! There is no ‘return’. America has given the last drop of blood. Without compromise, spending must be reduced and the Social Security Trust Fund must be restored to the time before ‘social engineering’.

      Then we can compromise on spending.

      Joe Biden’s big accomplishment – Forced Busing – twisted America into the original financial spiral that may terminate in a crash and burn; one massive social failure. Joe Biden’s 200,000 more Cops on the street, is another trillion dollar fiasco, as crime increases. And now Joe Biden thinks Obamacare is a Big F@@@ing Deal.

      Maybe Joe Biden and his ilk IS America’s financial problem.

      • Jeremy Leochner

        Charlie I think we agree that compromise needs to happen. So far as I can tell our country needs to increase its revenue and decrease its spending. So I proposed that in return for the expiration of the Bush Tax cuts on the top 2% the Republicans get their spending cuts. That seems like a pretty fair deal.

      • Donald

        @ Jeremy, Raising the Tax rates doesn’t bring in more revenue(it exerts more Government controll over those forced to pay it) Expanding the Economy raises extra revenue for the Government and creates more jobs which raises Government revenue and the BULL$HIT deal that was signed accounts for 620+ billion in tax hike (62 billion a year) and a whopping 15 billion in spending cuts(1.5 billion a year) that’s $41 in tax increases to $1 in spending cuts. Our deficit for last year was 1.3 trillionand our spending was 3.8 trillion. So that’s asking somebody who makes $3,800 a week to take a 15 cent pay cut and demand a $62 pay raise. The Debt Ceiling is coming and Republicans better say NO, that will force spending cuts!

      • Jeremy Leochner

        With respect Donald I believe it does raise revenue. If not in the form of raising the rate than we need to close corporate tax loopholes. Either way we need to increase the amount of money coming in and reduce the amount going out. This is not about government control. The tax rate increase I proposed would take us back to the marginal tax rate of the clinton years. There was plenty of freedom and free enterprise in those days. There can be now.

      • Vicki

        Jeremy Leochner says:
        “With respect Donald I believe it does raise revenue. If not in the form of raising the rate than we need to close corporate tax loopholes. Either way we need to increase the amount of money coming in and reduce the amount going out. ”

        Since we have increased the amount of money coming in, several times, how about we try reducing the amount going out?

      • speedle

        Jeremy says, “The tax rate increase I proposed would take us back to the marginal tax rate of the clinton years. There was plenty of freedom and free enterprise in those days. There can be now.”

        You don’t understand Jeremy. National wealth cannot be created by the government. It can only be created by the private sector. When government taxes it takes money out of the hands of the hands of the wealth creators. The economy can’t grow if the money is in the hands of the government. This is not theory. It is fact.

        The only reason we had economic success during the first Clinton administration is because of the policies during the Reagan years (plus the bogus economic boom created by the dotcom frenzy). Bush 41 was no Reagan and he was bogged down with the Iraq war so we just sort of treaded water during his four years. It seems that the only Democrat in recent history to understand how to handle the economy was John Kennedy, and we will never know if he would have followed up his stated plans on taxes and economic growth. The democratic party of those days is dead because it has been taken over by the collectivists, and it has done nothing but become more radical every decade.

  • Harold Olsen

    The major problem with our “leaders” in Washington is that when it comes to compromise, the Democrats won’t do it. Their idea of compromise is, “Either do it our way or sit down and shut the [expletive deleted] up!” The Republicans, unfortunately, are all too willing to cave to Obama and his Nazi Democrats. They have no real leadership and the American people are left to fend for themselves. We have no real representation in Washington. They don’t really care about us. We are irrelevant to them. The only time they care about us is at election time when they want us to support them with our votes and our money. Why should we do either?

    • Jeremy Leochner

      With all due respect Harold I have to disagree. This is not an issue of Republicans wanting to compromise and Democrats refusing. I have some videos here from The Daily Show with Jon Stewart. I do not know what your views are of the show or the comedian but I would appreciate it if you watch these clips. Because I believe they provide evidence against the idea that Republicans are the victims in a compromise versus no compromise game.—the-end-of-the-world-as-we-owe-it

      • Paul Wells

        Jeremy (aka Flashy, & that whole crew of characters you have locked up in that attic you call a mind),
        You DO understand that Jon Stewart does not actually carry “news” per se, but rather is biting satire/entertainment? I fear for our country with this generation of synchophants thinking Jon Stewart & Stephen Colbert is actual news. May God help us all!

      • Eugene Sevene-THE PATRIOT

        I like it when one tries to prove a point with out dated material which is not fact but opinion.I am in constant contact with my reps. in Washington and I keep tabs on what they are doing, I don’t need the opinions of a comedian. I tend to put more stock in facts. Just to give one fact to work on, congress can put a bill before the senate and if Harry Reid will not even let it come to a vote there by tabling it I guess that is the fault of the house of representatives. I marvel at the intelligence of some of the comments on these sights for it shows just how right I am to conclude that the American people get dumber every day. I would like to suggest that everyone do the research before putting their stupidity into print. I do,that is why I am often late with a comment.

      • DaveH
      • TIME

        Dear JL,

        So you get your intel from a what one can state as very poor comic at best?

        Yet you think that this week minded idiot has some form of probative or relative value?

        OMG, {no wonder your post reek daily of you’re being an iliterate as well aggressively ignorant fool.}

        Thanks for clearing that up.

      • Jeremy Leochner

        Paul I never said Jon Stewart is a news man. The issue of whether or not the Republicans are being stubborn and uncompromising is not a news issue its a factual issue. Either they are or they are not. The Jon Stewart show has evidence that shows the Republicans are not compromising. He does not have to be a genuine news journalist to do that. And by the way Jon Stewart is the first person to point out to everyone including his fans that he is a comedian not a newsman.

      • Jeremy Leochner

        Dave I think the NDAA is a travesty and should be repealed same as you.

      • Jeremy Leochner

        Time the issue of Republicans being just as uncompromising as Democrats is not one of intel. Either they are or they are not. I never said The Daily Show is a reliable source for data or statistics nor did I suggest we should take ques from them. All I did was show some videos from the Daily Show which provide clips of Republicans being just as uncompromising as Democrats. It shows them speaking and it shows their statements in context. It does not matter what you think of Jon Stewart or who or what Jon Stewart is. Facts are facts and the truth is the truth. I would like you to watch the clips specifically the one about the 9/11 first responders. You do not need to consider The Daily Show to be a news show to see the hypocrisy in the Republicans statements and actions.

      • Nancy in Nebraska

        Wrong again, Jeremy! It is NOT a fact! Many believe that the dems are not willing to compromise!!! I believe they are all in on it and the fiscal cliff and their negotiations are just for show!

      • Jeremy Leochner

        Nancy. The Democrats are unwilling to compromise I accept that. But the fact is so are Republicans. The debt ceiling debate and the ones over how to compromise over our finances is not a good guy versus bad guy debate. Both parties are acting like selfish children. That is a fact.

      • Donald

        @ Jeremy, sorry for the last post, I now understand that you have a mental disorder called Liberalism, if you watch that show and call anything in a sentence News. Then the jokes on you!

        • deerinwater

          Donald, wearing your a$$hole for a hat band has serious down sides as well.

      • Jeremy Leochner

        Donald I never said The Daily Show was news. I said it provided evidence that the Republicans are just as uncompromising as Democrats. I didn’t say watch these videos and listen to Jon Stewarts analysis. I did not say look at the statistics and figures Jon shows and trust them. All I said was watch the videos because they lend credence to the theory that Republicans are uncompromising. No mention of news. Video is video regardless of where it comes from. And if its video of people speaking and shows their comments in context than the video itself is credible evidence. And since the theory I was trying to support was that Republicans are uncompromising I would say it is fair to use such footage as evidence.The videos were in response to Harolds assertion that the Democrats are the reason there has not been any compromise. Forget about the Daily Show being news or not. Watch the clips and then try to tell me Republicans are trying hard to compromise. That was the whole reason I posted them. .

        • Frank Kahn

          Just a thought here, Jeremy, what compromise did the Democrats offer?

      • Jeremy Leochner

        Well Frank the videos I posted can help there. Watch the one with the title adult spin. There is a part at the end with the democrats.

        • Frank Kahn

          As with many others on this site, it would help if you did a reply to my post instead of replying to yourself so that I could understand what point you are making about my post.

          I had already watched the video you suggest, it does nothing but poke fun at REPUBLICANS, this is unprofessional and not worth acknowledging. If he wanted to be balanced and show that both sides are uncompromising then it would have value. It does not do that so I refuse to accept his video.

          Yes, both sides talk out of both sides of their mouths, however, the democrats have gotten what they want without any compromise so we all lose.

      • Vicki
        • deerinwater

          It’s known to everyone ( even high school children) by now, that the GOP has attempted to approach balanced budget matters from a single side only ~ the “spending side”. Both plain old republicans and Tea Party republicans had signed a pledge to Grover Norquest ( in turn for favor) to be “uncompromising” and blocking any and all notions of increases from the revenue side of balancing the budget.

          That this consorted “uncompromising” effort was maintained for 4 years and has now failed ~ Vicky would have us believe that it never happened.

          My memory is longer than that.

      • DaveH

        Most likely high school students DO believe the Propaganda, Deer, but I would think adults would take the time to learn some reality.
        There were no spending cuts in the latest agreement, only additional taxes.
        As usual the Democrats are long on dreams and short on reality:

        The only “uncompromising” has come from the Democrats who stubbornly refuse to quit their profligate spending. Do you run your household finances like that, Deer? Spending like there’s no tomorrow? Borrowing money to pay your debts?

        The National Debt is over $16 Trillion. That’s over $150,000 debt per average family in the US. And they are adding over $1 Trillion to that debt every year. That’s $9,800 per family extra each year being added to that already impossible debt.

        That means your family and everybody else’s families would have to pay almost $10,000 extra each year just to balance the budget. Do you have $10,000 extra each year to spend on more Government, Deer? Worse is that the history of Government after receiving more revenues is to Spend even more money, instead of using the extra taxes to balance their budgets.

        Your memory is long, Deer, but you’re also long on ignorance.

        • deerinwater

          David say, “The only “uncompromising” has come from the Democrats who stubbornly refuse to quit their profligate spending. ”

          I can’t believe that you would say such a thing David, ~

          “Norquist’s Tax Pledge Draws Fewer Freshmen: BGOV Barometer
          Fewer Republican freshmen in Congress are joining the ranks of anti-tax advocate Grover Norquist by signing his 26-year-old no-new-taxes pledge.”

          “Grover Norquist

          The Bush tax cuts lapsed at midnight last night. Every R voting for Senate bill is cutting taxes and keeping his/her pledge.

          Norquist, of course, is the architect of the anti-tax pledge signed by the vast majority of congressional Republicans, and his statement Tuesday night could give political cover to the 85 members of the House GOP conference who voted “yes” on the deal.”

          Described by Blitzer as an “anti-tax crusader,” Norquist offered his interpretation of the proposed deal:

          “This is Obama’s pound of flesh because he won the presidential election,” said the “Americans for Tax Reform” founder and president. “He’s the one insisting that taxes go up.”

          While Blitzer suggested that Republicans supporting the deal would essentially be backing a tax increase, Norquist disagreed and clarified:

          “They’re not voting for a tax increase, they’re voting to save tax cuts for as many( HOW MANY?) people as they can over Obama’s objections.” ( I guess 5000 or 500 people could be called “many” )

          This Norquest Pledge only allows addresses budget matters from the spending side and you know it.

          And today spending is the results many years prior spending habits and commitments made.

          Neither myself nor Obama wanted these wars with a 7 trillion dollar price tag. But no less, the ink dried, the deed done and the payments continue to come in. W with a republican lead 107th Congress, committed Americans to things we are still making payments on today ~ Now that is what I call a Hicky that won’t go away! ~ so now people like yourself David are left to attempt to hide it and hoping no one will see exactly what people have done in the name of conservatism.

    • Nancy in Nebraska

      You need to understand, they ALL have the SAME agenda!!!! They ALL work for the SAME people!!! They ALL got what they wanted!!! They don’t work for US!!! They work for the money people!!! They will continue to rob us blind until we have NOTHING!!! THAT is their agenda!!! NONE of them have proposed ANYTHING that would turn this country around and save us!!! Because it is their INTENT to destroy The United States of America!!! We have been taken over and defeated from within!!! The ENEMY IS HERE!!! WHEN will we fight back?!?

      • DaveH

        Jeremy understands, Nancy. But he doesn’t get paid for telling the truth.

      • gman

        Nancy you are totally correct. We are told there are two parties but really neither one are for us, we have not been invited after elections. They are not stupid and what is happening is totally on purpose. Let’s see, they can’t find any spending to cut so we need cut SS. But billions are going out to foreign aid, or maybe to be more correct just into some other form of the corrupt brotherhood.
        Sad to say the American people don’t believe our leaders would take down this country. It will be quite the picture film of the centuries when it all gets developed. I think the last editing is being done now.
        It is amazing how people are so power control hungry to destroy a great country and think nothing of it.
        We have nobody representing us in what we think is our government. Republican versus Democrat bull loney is just that to keep us fighting amongst ourselves while they destroy all around us. Our party is being cancelled, lights out end of story.

      • Jeremy Leochner

        I think you and I are in agreement on that Nancy. We need to rein in both parties and make our government more accountable to us the people.

      • Nancy in Nebraska

        Jeremy, it’s not about reining in the government and making them accountable! It’s about getting the enemies OUT of our government!!! It’s about trying them for treason!!! It’s about taking the power away from the government and giving it back to the people!!!

      • Jeremy Leochner

        Nancy I want to get bad guys out of government as well. But I do not think that once the bad guys are out that we need to take power away from government. We need to make government better not less. We need to clear out the corrupt and the incompetent. We need to push legislation to make real lobby and campaign finance reform. Right from election we need to make our politicians beholden to we the people rather than special interest. But if we can clear out the idiots and the bad guys I see no reason to further gut the government. The government is made up of human beings. If honest and responsible human beings make up the government I do not feel that the government at the size it currently is will be a problem. Don’t get me wrong. There is always room for trimming the fat and getting rid of redundant offices and positions. But I consider the bad people in government not the government itself to be the problem.

      • Nancy in Nebraska

        Jeremy, I disagree with you! The power belongs in the hands of the people!

      • http://none Claire

        Nancy–”The power is in the hands of the people” are good words but people still keep electing idiots into office. The entire government needs cleaning up. Get rid of all of them, but therein lies the problem–who do we elect? I cannot think of one politician from the current roster that I care for. They are all “owned” by the big corporations, the organizations, pharma, the banks, Wall Street, etc. These politicians bow down to them and pass laws to support their ideals, not the ideals of American people. Like DAveH says–more dirty tricks–from both sides.

      • Jeremy Leochner

        Nancy I agree whole heartedly that the power lies with the people. That is the reason I believe what I believe. Because we the people elect representatives because we have our lives to live and do not wish to deal with the bureaucracy of governing. We grant some power to elected officials and other government employees to take care of us the people and to provide services we do not wish to do and simply do not have time too. However should these representatives or government employees prove to be incompetent or corrupt than we the people have the power to get rid of them. Sadly now a days many people have become apathetic and do not exercise their power. We need to get more too. All I know is I believe government deserves a certain amount of power. You and I may disagree on exactly how much power. But where we can agree is this. All power given to government stems from we the people. And should we the people decide we can take that power away. That is our safe guard. That is our best defense. And that is where I put my faith.

      • Nancy in Nebraska

        Jeremy and Claire, our founding fathers did not intend for the federal government to hold power. The states were to retain the power! If we put the power back into the hands of the state, there would be more accountability! Those with the power would be accessible to the people. Our founding fathers intended that the states retain the power. What we have now is exactly what they warned us about!!!

      • DaveH

        Jeremy (aka Flashman) says — “We grant some power to elected officials and other government employees to take care of us the people and to provide services we do not wish to do and simply do not have time too”.

        No Jeremy, that is not what “we” wish to do. If “we” wished to do that, “we” could do it anytime “we” wanted by buying those services from the Private Sector, voluntarily and more cheaply.
        What YOU and YOUR kind want to do is to use the Force of Government to acquire those services while Forcing other people, who don’t want them or use them, to pay for them.
        In other words, Jeremy (aka Flashman) you are just thieves. At least common thieves don’t try to take the moral high ground when they steal other peoples’ money. Liberal Progressives do.

      • Jeremy Leochner

        Nancy the founders tried granting full power to the states with the articles of confederation. That was a disaster. The constitution was created to provide a capable but controlled federal government. The states must act as a buffer against unchecked federal power. However the federal government must act as a check against the unchecked power of the states.

      • Jeremy Leochner

        So Dave you want to deliver mail or run the post office. You want to serve in the police or the fire department. If not are you saying you want those to be from the private sector. Like the army these are not products to be sold and bought. They are services to be provide for when needed. Sadly they have to be maintained even when there is not an immediate threat. Other wise it leaves the country and people open to attack. I am not advocating total government control. I am just saying we need better government not no government.

    • DaveH

      That’s classic.
      Jeremy (aka Flashman) finally posts some referential links to back himself up and they’re from the Daily Show. Is that a joke, Flashshill?

      • Nancy in Nebraska

        The KEY word is right in jeremy’s comment!!! “comedian”

        Great source, jeremy!!!

      • Jeremy Leochner

        The Daily Show shows videos of people speaking in context. If they show a video that provides evidence of what I am saying I can show it. I never use The Daily Show as my source of data or statistics. If you wish to watch the clips the Daily Show presents and then deny that they are happening by all means go ahead. I just want to point out that they happened. It does not matter what the source is if the videos are accurate. Data and statistics and figures are one thing. Videos are something else entirely.

  • http://none Claire

    I certainly don’t want to be slapped with a $3500 tax increase. It is way past time for the politicians of Washington to put aside their party and corporate/organization affiliations and get down to brass tacks, straighten themselves up, and to do the job they were elected to do. Geez, to think they have America and Americans best interests at heart is like living in a fool’s paradise. All they care about is getting re-elected. If the situation at hand wasn’t so serious, their antics would be almost laughable. My greatgranddaughter displays more common sense than this current bunch of losers. They are playing a power game, and none of them are winners. For example, Boehner better watch out, Cantor is after his job.
    This is laughable to me, especially since both men haven’t done their party any favors. Nazism? Communism? Take a good long look at both parties, not just one of them.

    • teddy maher

      3500 dollars??? Much much more …. the perifery taxation surrounding Obama care is massive and subtle… But as Pelosi said lets just pass it and find out what is in it as we go along….John Roberts supreme court said lets call it a tax and approve it….. AFTER ALL THAT THE RNC GAVE US A CANDIDATE THAT PEOPLE DID NOT WANT…. Welcome to our world of DoDo….

    • teddy maher

      Claire ….. Let us not forget ….They Are Incharge….

    • Nancy in Nebraska

      Claire, this whole fiscal cliff thing is pure theatre! The REAL tax increases are yet to come! They’ve got all kinds of ideas for ways to steal more of our money! Just to start, they’re printing 80 billion a month and GIVING it to the bankers! Every dollar they print makes the dollars you hold and earn worth LESS! In the process, the evil bankers who own the federal reserve, NOT THE GOVERNMENT, will OWN YOUR HOUSE!!! Let’s see…then they want a value added tax! Read about that one! That’ll REALLY cost you! Then they want a banking transaction tax! You’ll pay when you deposit money to your account. You’ll pay every time time you write a check, use an ATM or your debit card! they’ll get you coming and going! They talk about a national sales tax! Taxes on energy are going up! Not to mention fees and fines that get passed on to customers! They are coming after your money and won’t stop til they get ALL of it! What’s going on now in the congress and senate is all show!!! They’re trying to make you think that they tried to help you! BULLCRAP!!! This is a financial war!!! And you will lose because most of the people don’t see what is going on!!! The people need to WAKE UP and say, NO MORE!!!

      • Leroy

        Nancy I am with you,and I hear a lot of other people talking this way but all I can see is talk! For any type of meaningful action to be taken to stop this three has to be an organized plan of action and someone or some group to lead it. I to this point in time am not and have not seen or heard of either. If you know something that the rest of us concerned citizens don’t please share it.

      • Nancy in Nebraska

        Leroy, at this point, I think all we can do is educate people! Wake up the sleeping masses! When the majority of the people are aware of what is going on, heroes will rise up! People en masse will declare that we’re not going to take it anymore! Tell everyone you know! Show them the truth!

    • Eugene Sevene-THE PATRIOT

      Her in lies the problem. Everybody wants the politicians to do something as long as it doesn’t effect their welfare,or social security check. Do something about the problem as long as I don’t have to give up anything but you can take it from the other guy. I’m not going to do my part, let the other guy do it. The politicians know how the population thinks. What would you do if the government told you to pay all of your bills with no money or you will be punished. We do have some politicians that would do the right thing if they had the backing of the people. The people have laid back and allowed some politicians to do as they please for so long that they now feel they can’t be stopped. It is as I have said before up to the people to make the change while they still can. I have said in the past that we need to replace any congress or senator that has served mor than two terms.Let them know that we are still in charge while we are still able to do so. I read and hear a lot of lip service but I see no action anywhere. It is going to take everyone to bring our country back.In the mid term election make the congress and the senate conservative.No not what you think. The president will still have veto power, at least we will know where to put the blame. Makes sense to me how ever we can’t allow one conservative or liberal to control both. Common sense, we need to start somewhere. Even though this makes sense it will not happen for the American people will not work together any more than the liberal and the conservatives. In summation we are doomed and we should get ready to defend what we have left as individuals and small groups for that is all there is unless people wake up and look for what is good for all.

      • Nancy in Nebraska

        Social Security is a DEBT owed by the American people! Welfare is NOT! I know that Social Security has been run like a Ponzi scheme and those responsible should be imprisoned. But it is still a debt! People were forced to contribute and promises were made! We need to figure out a way to pay these people who through no fault of their own were forced to contribute! Then, end it! The government likes to make us think that the only places that they can make real cuts are through programs like Social Security! Not true! We could start by ending most of the bureaucracy in government! Get rid of the department of education! Let the states handle their own! Get rid of the EPA! They favor their corporate cronies and bar individuals from using their own property! Let the states decide how to control their own lands and people! Eliminate MOST of the defense budget. Most of it is not used for defense, but for offense! We have no business overthrowing governments in the middle east or anywhere! Gid rid of the justice department! It is nothing but corruption and actively pursues ILLEGAL acts! Let states take care of their own justice! Eliminate the department of homeland security and the tsa! These departments do NOTHING to protect us! They only threaten us with harm! I could go on and on but you get the idea!!! The federal government was set up to provide DEFENSE for our country!!! THAT’S IT!!! NOTHING ELSE!!! They have STOLEN power from the states and now think that they can dictate every part of our lives!!! We need to get them OUT of our lives!!! Our founding fathers declared that the congress should make NO law that infringes upon the rights of the individual!!! And YET, that is ALL that our current government does!!! It’s time to take our government BACK!!!!

  • Warrior

    Call it a “tax” or call it a “fine” or just call it what it really is “More Theft”!

    • Nancy in Nebraska

      Absolutely!!! People need to pay attention and look at the BIG picture!!! These fees and fines are TAXES in disguise!!!

    • Jeremy Leochner

      How does our country pay for things if we don’t tax or fine or steal as you appear to put it.

      • deerinwater

        The Tooth Fairy Jeremy!

      • Donald

        Jeremy,aka Flashy, they used to pay for our Government with our trade surplus, then they decided to pass an Admendment to the Constitution so they could TAX us ans help us out so much more, like telling us how to live. back then if you didn’t like the laws in your state you could more to a different one and that made a difference, today not so much

      • Jeremy Leochner

        Donald that was many years ago. The world has changed much and the bills have changed accordingly. Just as the world for the average person is much more expensive then it was 100 years ago so it is for government. There is a much more expanded role for the government in providing services to the poor and to the elderly and military veterans. And it is not as simple a matter as government makes taxes government tells you what to do. I think it is wrong when government tries to interfere in peoples lives by telling them who they can marry or whether or not they can smoke marijuana.

        And Donald if you disagree with a law you have the power to petition against it. You have the power to vote against it and or vote in someone who opposes it. There are numerous things you can do which while difficult are much easier than moving to another state.

      • Leroy

        The major portion of what the federal government does should be the responsibility of the state government with the exception of defense, the rest should be for people to provide for themselves and if it in their nature or heart by their own decision to provide help for those who CANNOT thru no fault of their own help themselves. Our federal government has grown way to large and to corrupt and needs to be brought back to a size where the beuocracy cannot easily deceive the people which is exactly what it is doing at the present time.

  • teddy maher

    The Dems had no reason to compromise …. The republicans are represented by a wimpering Rino whose only course of action has been surrender…. The worse is yet to come for these feckless bozos … The liar and chief will now herald a victory for his side while demonizing these idiots for the fall out that will effect everybody…. Iam sure an economic revival is in the future but not before the total decimation of the middle class and a new empowered poor,lazy and moocher class emerge ….. FOOLs we are and FOOLs we have for leadership…

    • Nancy in Nebraska

      Don’t be fooled by the right/left paradigm! republicraps/democraps=SAME THING!!! NO DIFFERENCE!!! They have the SAME agenda!!! They work for the SAME people(?) !!!!!!!

      • Eugene Sevene-THE PATRIOT

        Yes stupid as of today they work for you but not for long.Wake up and replace everyone that has served two or more terms. Oh I apologize that would make sense and I wouldn’t want to be accused of claiming an American of having common sense, They are too busy collecting their welfare and disability checks to realize that when the country goes broke those checks stop and they will have to fight for their lives.How ignorant the American people are to think that we can go on as we are forever. I and mine are set for a year or two I don’t know what those are going to do

      • Nancy in Nebraska

        Eugene, they do NOT work for YOU!!! Not now, and not in our lifetimes!!! They work for the globalist bankers(satan) who control all of the money, and therefore the politicians who can either be bought or blackmailed!!!

    • DaveH

      Nancy is correct.
      The Democrats and the Republicans are just two different sides of the same Progressive coin. They have minor differences to keep the people confused, but they both want Big Government.
      It’s like going to an NFL Football game. You root for your favorite team, but in the end the NFL wins no matter which team wins or loses.
      In this case, it’s the Crony Bankers and other Crony Capitalists who win regardless of whether the Democrats win or the Republicans win. But the rest of the people lose.
      Of course, ultimately it’s the Leaders who are to blame, but how do we replace them with new Leaders when the Buddy Club has the Power to decide who we get to choose from?
      Witness the treatment of Ron Paul during the Republican Convention.
      We may not have long to learn as much reality as we can, so I suggest going here (as well as PL) to learn everything you can about what is really going on. Stuff you won’t get from the Boob Tube:

      • Eugene Sevene-THE PATRIOT

        Yep sit back, run your mouth and do nothing else. Everything I read here is about how much each is going to lose, not a whole lot about sacrifice for the many. I gave my life in a war zone for freedom,I will die from cancer contracted in that war zone. Did I give enough? Not yet, I will fight against the money hungry, power hungry people that would take freedom from us. I wish this country loved those that fought for their freedom at least as much as we love it.

      • DaveH

        You may indeed be a Patriot, but you are mislead. You didn’t give your life for our Freedom. You gave it for the same “money hungry, power hungry people” that you claim to be saving us from. They lied to you.
        Read this if you want to start understanding:,%20Wilson%20and%20Roosevelt.pdf

        And I’m sorry that you have cancer. Do your own research (and lots of it) before you put yourself in the hands of the establishment doctors. Good luck with that.

      • Nancy in Nebraska

        Sorry Eugene! I agree with Dave H. You only THOUGHT you were fighting for freedom! Wars are fought so that bankers and their cronies can make money! They fund both sides and rob the people who are forced to fund them through no will of their own! Wars aren’t even won these days! They just go on and on to drain the citizenry of everything! Eisenhower, as he was leaving office gave a speech that warned us of the military industrial complex! As long as people get rich off of wars, there will be wars!!! Their agenda does NOT include peace OR freedom!!! You were HAD!!!

  • Jonathan

    You know, if everybody would just stop paying taxes…. It’s better than using guns!

    • teddy maher

      How do you do that…. ? If every small business owner took 20 percent of their work force and put them on the books as private contractors and 1099 their wages …. this could create a problem of monumental proportions…

    • johno

      I agree but they have made tax collectors out of the employers and retailers with the sales tax. If enough people got together and refused to pay they would probably clear the thieves and killers from the prisons to make sure they had room for the “tax evader”. Unless of course he’s head of the treasurery dept.

    • DaveH

      You’re wasting your energy, Johnathan.
      Your protest would get you thrown in Jail, and the Government would just keep on trucking by printing more money, thus taxing us the hidden way (by making our cash savings worth less).
      Yes, ultimately they will run out of that option, but then, after destroying the dollar, they will come up with some new form of fiat money and the people, most of whom know nothing at all about money creation, will let them get away with it.
      The best way to use your energy is to study everything you can about what’s really going on so you can relay that knowledge to friends and relatives.
      Here’s a good place to start:

  • An Old Seabee

    I agree 100% with hipshot and warrior!!!!

    • Warrior

      I haven’t heard it reported yet, is granny now considered saved?

      • Nancy in Nebraska

        obumasscare is gonna get granny!

  • Warrior

    Was this “bill” formulated under the “paygo” rules? Was it presented to the American People for a 72 hour, 7.2 hour, .72 hour, .072 hour review? I seem to have lost track of the game we’re playing these days. Help me out.

  • ToughGuy1

    Yeah, some fiscal cliff deal!

    • Nancy in Nebraska

      It’s EXACTLY what they wanted!!!

  • James Andrews

    The working class in this country only continue to get screwed!

    • JON A. [USMC RET.]

      james andrews

    • Nancy in Nebraska

      It’ll keep happening as long as WE allow it!!!

    • LESNC

      They may continued to get screwed, but that is what they voted for.

  • ToughGuy1

    Oh, and the small business owners get the shaft, already making and cutting there $3,500.00 checks to Obama’s and Biden’s Fed on bogus new taxes!

  • vietnamvet1971

    The “Fiscal Cliff” was nothing but a well Planned Con Game used by the Clowns in DC to get more TAX money so Oblammer in Chief can Spend, WASTE and keep his Cult Followers happy and secure his Evil party the Power for the next 20 years. What a Charade and the cast of characters were Pathetic and the LOSER was us the Taxpaying Americans.

  • JR

    In 1971 Gene Cernon walked on the Moon, the greatest scientific achievement of all history. In that same year, the supreme court was hearing on the case of Roe vs Wade, which became the law of the land in January 1973. The U.S. won every battle, but lost and withdrew from the Viet Nam war by 1975, and LBJ funded the debt by opening the Social Security fund into the General Fund and drained the entitlement. The saga continues, and the Americans voted in the worst possible president at the worst possible time when we are faced with the “Fiscal Cliff” when the demoncratic leadership is drunk on spending catastrophically the futures of our posterity. The United States has never been the same since Roe vs Wade became the Law of the Land. It is a fundamental and fatal error of sin to sacrifice our sons and daughters on the abortionist’s table. No nation in all of history has long endured who killed their own children. May God forgive us for allowing it to happen.

    • nc

      JR, you can thank the Republican Party for Roe v. Wade and also 70% of our first 10 trillion in debt to just 2 Republican administrations! Plus two wars that turned to crap! Count the dead and the costs! Now you were saying what about the Democrats????????

      • DaveH

        You can’t teach an old dog new tricks,
        but for the rest of you, here’s a listing of the Party in Power since 1945:

      • DaveH

        And it doesn’t matter which of the two Major Parties it is, we will still be going to the same ultimate collapse.
        For those who can learn from other peoples’ experience, study the economies of the countries at the top of this ranking (Smaller Governments) and those at the bottom (Bigger Governments):

        It is no coincidence that those at the bottom have much worse economies.
        Think of Government as one big self-serving Gang and you will understand what’s going on.

      • The Christian American

        When are people going to get it in their heads? We’re dealing with REPUBLICRATS all. They work in concert. Ron Paul might of run as a Republican but he was the only that WAS a Republican. FORGET this two party system. There’s two parties alright. The politicians against the productive God fearing American people.

      • Steve E

        nc is still stuck on the left/right, democrat/republican paradigm stuff.

      • DaveH

        Christian says — “Ron Paul might of run as a Republican but he was the only that WAS a Republican”.
        No Christian. The Republicans have had you fooled all those years. They were never really the Party of Small Government as they portrayed themselves. It was a lie.
        Read these two books by Thomas D. Lorenzo to learn the truth:

      • DaveH
      • JR

        You are right about the wars where both parties almost unanimously voted to go after the 911 terrorists, and that too has gone bad for America as I mentioned. Did you read my post? I said that all has slid downhill since Roe vs Wade. Additionally, there can be no doubt who is spending this country over the precipice of oblivion. Obama alone has spent more money than all previous presidents combined. If you cannot acknowledge those facts, discussion is pointless.

    • The Christian American

      Bible history tells us God gives people the leader they deserve. The german people got Hitler. The Russian people got Lenin and Stalin. We got Obama and I don’t think we have the sllghtest idea what he’s capable of. I shudder to think.

      • nc

        Christian, you say you “shutter to think”!! From your post I think you shutter INSTEAD of thinking! Like all the rest of brain dead fringe here who SHUTTER FROM FEAR OF UNPROVED CONSPIRACIES AND “FLASE FLAG EVENTS” THAT ARE FIGMENTS OF YOUR IMAGINATION! I have seen no proof of these events>
        You refer to Republicrats as doing it wrong! I assume you do not feel that you belong to that group! Go to the popular vote of the 2012 Presidential election and see what percent of the vote ‘YOUR PEOPLE” received! How long do you think it will take YOUR PEOPLE to parlay that percentage into a leadership position! TWO OR THREE LIFETIMES???
        Go to the desert, dig a hole and get in with your Bible and a case of beans and if we ever need your opinion we will come knock on the hatch! Right now we are real busy trying to maintain the number one position in the world we created without the leadership of your knuckle dragging TRUE CONSERVATIVES!!

      • Carlucci

        nc – TCA is correct – it is “shudder to think”, NOT “shutter” as you were ignorantly attempting to point out and “correct”. Shutters protect windows. A shudder is like a shiver.

        It is obvious that you went to school just to eat your lunch…

      • Nancy in Nebraska

        Liberals LOVE public education! They think it’s great!

        nc, we “shudder” NOT!!! We KNOW how it ends!!! You’re the one who should be shuddering!!!

        • deerinwater

          No ~ not really Nancy ~ Public Education is just better then nothing and a compromise. If you think it is bad today, just imagine how bad it might be without some basic education system. We’d be another Afghanistan or Pakistan and have roving male idiots shooting young girls for going to school and behaving like they might matter.

      • Nancy in Nebraska

        I disagree with you, deer! The liberals control education in this country! If they didn’t love it, they’d change it! They have dumbed down education because an uninformed populace is easier to control! They want worker bees who won’t challenge them! And as long as you support them, you are supporting the education or lack there of, that they give us!

        • deerinwater

          Yes, it true the bulk of those in the educational field are liberals ~ It comes with the vocation. open minded, ability to learn , low pay and not driven by wealth and power. Such a job does not interest conservatives, I’m left to believe.

          And the educational system is under constant change. ~ When was the last time you attended Nancy? Or were you self taught or privately funded in some private educational system?

          I had a sister-in-law that holds a doctorate in Chinese Literature. ~ Go figure as to why?

          I guess there is something in this world for everyone.

      • DaveH

        Deer says — “liberals [teachers] ~ It comes with the vocation. open minded, ability to learn , low pay and not driven by wealth and power”.
        Liberals, open minded?
        Who just told me on this board — ” I might read such a “pie in the sky” book”. Oh yeah, that’s open minded.
        Ability to learn?
        I haven’t seen a one of the mouthy Liberal Progressives, who comment on this board, show any interest at all in learning except what they want to believe.
        Low Pay?
        The average business teacher in California makes $104,000 per annum.
        The average math/science teacher in California makes $99,000 per annum.
        The average engineering teacher in California makes $110,000 per annum.
        The average biology teacher in California makes $97,000 per annum.

        How can you stand to be so damn ignorant, Deer?

      • deerinwater

        The document shows us that you are incorrect ~ or just nasty and spiteful ~ since you feel required to call other posters name for simply disagreeing with you. Do you believe being mean and nasty lends helps your bogus argument?

  • Flashy

    “In the final analysis, millions of Americans didn’t spend what they typically do this time of year because they fear that the wheels on the American economy have already slipped over the edge of a very steep precipice.” <— Myers

    Actually, they are fearful that the house radical TP contingent will place their own hides above that of the nation and as we face the upcoming fiscal battles…that such extremist contingent will be the cause of crisis after crisis…and are showing themselves willing to send us into economic down slide for the sake of their seat. Consumer's confidence in the House is non-existent.

    Unless the House GOP send us over the cliff in the next two months, we aren't looking like a Recession is in the 2013 forecasts. The numbers don't indicate anything of that nature is ahead.

    however…when there are extremists who balk over raising the highest tax rate by 3 %, giving the 98% a lower tax burden, who would rather send this nation into economic slowdown placing us at risk rather than compromise and deal with issues before them. There are few consumers who aren't looking in askance as to the sanity of the extremists.

    The tensions between the leadership and moderates on one side, and the extreme ideological radicals on the other side rising, we have two months for the House to get its act together and begin dealing with the issues. Does anyone doubt we will be in a crisis as the word "compromise" is forgotten?

    The problem is simple…the extremists have sung thier song, been rejected and slapped down by Americans in the recent election, and their backs are to the wall as they realize they are being marginalized. Thus, they yell and act out their tantrums…destructive angry and with no other reason than they have been slapped down and people just don't want to deal with them anymore. They aren't important and have no more say in affairs.

    The real question is….how much furniture will they break as they're being tossed out the door into the street?

    • DaveH

      Flashshill says — “Actually, they are fearful that the house radical TP contingent will place their own hides above that of the nation”.
      Flashshill knows what’s best for his Masters, and he knows what’s best for the people, but you won’t get any help on the latter from Flashshill.
      For those who’d like to get just a little dose of reality, pick up a copy of this book:

      • Flashy

        Davey boy …Have you read the book you’re hyping ? Doubt it. you don’t even read the links you suggest others read. lol

      • DaveH

        What would make you ask that, Flashshill? Do you think somehow that you are denigrating me with such nonsense?

      • Nancy in Nebraska

        flashy, the tea party is sooo last decade! Is THAT all you got?!? You’re falling behind in liberal talking points!!!

        • deerinwater

          Nancy in Nebraska says; ” flashy, the tea party is sooo last decade! Is THAT all you got?!? You’re falling behind in liberal talking points!!!”

          NO Nancy ~ just last year! ~ Much like “W’s” administration, the Tea Party has became a source of embarrassment and denial rules the day among their supporters.

          Nice try though! ~ while the American people are not buying it! Even though you were not on our Christmas list, we still remember you Nancy.
          Mr. Livingston. I am enjoying your new format ~ it allows for fast tracking and addressing the most obvious infraction of analytic thought .

      • Nancy in Nebraska

        deer, the tea party no longer exists!!! The republican party infiltrated it and took it over! Now you can just call them republicans! They’ve got nothing in common with the original tea party!!! And I’m really tired of the idiot liberals who use the same old lines all the time!!! It’s not even relevant anymore! Time for some new liberal talking points! Seems like the libs never have anything BUT talking points!!!

        • deerinwater

          Nancy says; “deer, the tea party no longer exists!!! The republican party infiltrated it and took it over! Now you can just call them republicans! ”

          LOL! I never stopped Nancy. The Tea Party was always GOP. ~ regardless of their many claims. ~ Oh maybe for the first month it was pure Libertarian. ~ but the need for cash and a platform, they gave into the Dark Forces early on. Ron Paul understood this, while it was suggested that he held an ACE in the HOLE, ~ For the life of me, I never could understand what it might be ~ and it ended up being little more than a hopeful mirage that disappeared the closer he got to needing it.

          The GOP has been a “bait and switch” party for the last 30 years. Selling one thing while delivering another.

          I could have very easily accepted what the Tea Party promoted but seeing it loaded up with GOP , I knew better. If it walks, quacks and looks like a Duck, good chances are, ~ it’s a Duck Nancy.

          I fell for the bait and switch back in 80′, I’ll not do it again. “A rose by any other name would smell as sweet”

    • DaveH

      Flashshill says — “when there are extremists who balk over raising the highest tax rate by 3 %, giving the 98% a lower tax burden”.

      Another snow job by Flashshill, the master of obfuscation. Raising the taxes on the Rich has nothing to do with the tax burden on the rest of us, and everything to do with giving Flashshill’s masters even more money to waste by feathering their own nests, and buying votes with the rest.
      Every dollar the Magicians extract from the economy hurts all of us who aren’t feeding at the trough. It even hurts those who ARE feeding at the trough in the case of welfare recipients and others dependent on Big Government, because the ultimate result is less productivity, fewer goods, and higher prices for those goods. The only people who really benefit is those One Percenters who comprise the State (Big Government and their Crony Capitalists).
      By taking money from the Private Sector, they deplete the financial resources that would have been used to buy more Capital Machinery, or Plants, or other investments which result in more Productivity, more Products, and cheaper Prices for those products.

      That’s why the countries with the Biggest Governments have the Smallest Economies.

      Reading this article will give you a good idea of what I’m talking about:

      • DaveH

        They wouldn’t be paying Flashshill, Alpha, if they didn’t think he could influence some ignorant people.
        So like it or not, ignoring him will lead to more dummified readers.

    • DaveH

      Flashshill says — “The real question is….how much furniture will they break as they’re being tossed out the door into the street?”.
      No, the real question is — “Why would anybody pay any attention at all to the words of a shill who assumes multiple personalities?”.

    • DaveH

      What do you think about this Travesty?

      • Flashy

        Davey boy…I believe it will fail when brought to the Courts for Constitutional muster. Of course, since you state the SCOTUS is not the arbiter of the Constiotution…the extremists who, in the House-Senate conference, stripped the bill of the Feinstein Amendment.

        I think the TP contingent in the House are not the “patriots’ they hold themselves out to be. Ideology and the demise of this nation appear to be the goals of the TPers…

      • DaveH

        The Feinstein Amendment?
        Did you not read the article, Flashshill? It said:
        “Sen. Dianne Feinstein (D-Calif.) and Sen. Mike Lee (R-Utah) had introduced an amendment to the National Defense Authorization Act that was designed to limit the president’s arbitrary power to indefinitely detain American citizens”.

        Or was that just a typical lame effort by you, Flashshill to propagandize ignorant readers?

      • Flashy

        I read it Davey..i was speaking of some ‘arbitrary power’ which you seem to think exists in the Presidency. i do not believe, except in time of War or National Emergency, The Executive has any such ‘arbitrary power”. That was what i was referring to.

        Still have reading comprehension issues eh/

        Deflecting, denigrating, and displaying ignorance … those seem to be your talents.

      • DaveH

        Flashshill, bereft of factual comment, as usual, resorts to his adolescent manipulative techniques.

    • Carlucci

      “In the final analysis, millions of Americans didn’t spend what they typically do this time of year because they fear that the wheels on the American economy have already slipped over the edge of a very steep precipice.” <— Myers

      Hasn't anyone ever noticed that year after year retailers (according to the lame stream media) almost always bitch about "slow sales" at Christmas, but hardly anyone ever talks about online sales figures? I would bet dollars to donuts that online sales are the winner.

      As far as my family, we have all decided that we are very blessed and have more than we need. Christmas for us is just being together to enjoy some wine and a nice holiday dinner that we do potluck style. We have also chosen to play a fun game called the "Chinese Gift Exchange" (a.k.a. "White Elephant Gift Exchange") for the past four years @ Christmas. There is a maximum $25.00 limit on the gift value and it can be a gag gift like a Chia Pet, or a regular gift like a bottle of wine, or whiskey, a gift card, etc. Participants draw numbers out of a hat, and once the game gets rolling it is a lot of fun, and nobody has overspent for the holidays.

    • Frank Kahn

      Really, Flashy, you think what the feckless idiots did was good? You think that we INTELLIGENT people were wrong when we said HE (OBAMA) would FORCE the congress to do it HIS WAY or NO WAY AT ALL?




  • The Christian American

    Congress cut a deal? What deal? Who with? The American people are dealing with a united front called the REPUBLICRATS. Responsible people of White and Color must unite against this onslaught of lies, dieceit and propaganda. This proves it’s the producers against the political predators. If people ran their lives the way politicians run this country they’d be in jail and the keys would of been thrown away. Economics 101: You cannot consume more than you produce. Aah! But the politicians have a way. It’s called use our political force andTAX the people. We must remember. We put these “things” in office so that they can steal our wealth. INSANITY? The whole country has gone insane as it listens to Satan.

  • Nobody’s Fool

    Flashy is still hung over from his new year’s eve party. Come back when you sober up, Flashy. Or, DON’T!!!!!

  • deerinwater

    Closer to 327 million Americans with a new American created every 14 second factoring in both loss and gains John.

    So why did W (in all his wisdom) go about giving all Americans a tax cut anyway?

    Was there plans in the works for the Federal government to spend less money?

    No doubt, it hard for anyone to refuse getting their own money back. For myself, I applied this tax break (credit)to my tax balance and never actually got to touch it directly. While 95% of my earning were acquired by labor and the rest being in low-end real-estate equity and mineral royalties.

    I have a close friend that has invested wisely and paid only 4 thousand dollar income tax on 195,000 gross earning without the need to “labor” at all….. No doubt about, ~ I like his way of earning money better than mine! But tell me something, ~ can all Americans do this and America still prosper and thrive as a nation of people?

    I contend that people don’t do anything without a good reason that serves them well. That Capital gains tax has been so low has suppressed the desire to spend. This notion that investing is a form of spend is only partly true and fails to reflect a true picture of what is actually taking place.

    It’s as like we are asking the American people to place both feet over their ears and attempt to jump.

    When capital gains tax is so low that it suppresses venture capitalist endeavor there come with it a certain disparity while the investment community sees the whole world as it’s oyster and be damned with national economic interest.

    But what do I know about such things ~ I’m easy to fool ~ but when I look around at my fellow countrymen and see how the middle laboring class is being attack from above and below and our numbers in sharp decline, become fewer and fewer , I can’t help but have apprehension and great concern.

    I’m willing to give another 2 thousand dollar to the FED, ~ just tell my we will start addressing business at home and let the Arabs and the rest of the world address their own affairs anyway they think they are big enough to do. If they want to fight, hurt , kill, rob, steal or form new government and worship snakes, ~ I cease to care as long as they play in their own backyard and quit exporting their frustrations with their own lot.

    I grow weary of defending international investors interest abroad.

    Let us put the Adventure back into Venture Capitalism and invest in America and not in international investors getting wealthy with our money at the cost other nations suffering masses.

    • DaveH

      In the time it took you to compose that mostly clueless comment, Deer, you could have been studying some Austrian Economics and learning what is really going on.
      The Private Sector creates Wealth. The Public Sector consumes Wealth. Every dollar that is taken out of the Private Sector and given to the Public Sector is one less dollar that would have otherwise increased our productivity, and thus created more goods for less money.
      Read this and start getting a clue:

      • deerinwater

        Dave say; “The Private Sector creates Wealth. The Public Sector consumes Wealth. ”

        So without this Public consumption David where would the private sector be, ~ Silas Marner, The Weaver of Raveloe, counting his money ?

        and quit being condescending with me and answer the question with mindful courtesy.

        If your answer to my question addresses the riddle of equitable exchange and the transfer of wealth generated , while you seem to celebrate supply while chastising demand, I might read such a “pie in the sky” book.

        Demand come before wealth, without demand we’ve got nothing, while the attempt to give away the disease only to sell the cure is as old as mankind.

      • DaveH

        Deer asks — “So without this Public consumption David where would the private sector be?”.
        Wealthier, Deer.

        Deer says — “If your answer to my question addresses the riddle of equitable exchange and the transfer of wealth generated , while you seem to celebrate supply while chastising demand, I might read such a “pie in the sky” book”.
        You see, right therein lies your problem, Deer. You have assumed “pie in the sky” without even reading the book. Is that what you Liberal Progressives call “open minds”?
        There is no such thing, Deer, as “transfer of wealth” with “equitable exchange”. When two people trade voluntarily in Free Markets, both think they have gotten a fair deal or they wouldn’t have made the deal.
        And Demand cannot be satisfied without first creating the Supply.
        I could go deeper into it, Deer, but it would be much easier for you to read the book, instead of trying to learn from my necessarily limited sound bites.
        Everybody would like to have all their hearts desire, but first somebody has to build those products, and anything past subsistence living requires Capital Machinery and other Capital Goods to produce the products efficiently and cheaply.

        • deerinwater

          David says;” And Demand cannot be satisfied without first creating the Supply”

          No David , it is the demand that creates the supply. You are looking at it backwards. ~ If either or both private and public demand ~ only then will any Supply become relevant and be offered.

          Without the demand, there is little need for supply.

          And we rarely want to actually satisfy demand , as it’s value goes down or decreases if markets are flooded. We feed the market demand just enough for brisk growth. ~ As if we might be so lucky as to have such a problem. This is where locked and controlled markets come into play. ~ patents, copyrights, dealerships, affiliations , etc.

          There has been only two times in my life that I enjoyed such a problem. ~

          As a sixth grader in “public” school, ~ I ran into a method of crafting a extremely loud whistle out of metal banding strap ~ They were quick and easy to make and I sold them for a quarter a piece. I was flood with demand inside the first week. I made 4 to 6 dollars everyday easy. After 3 weeks I ran out of banding strap and went out of business. I didn’t know what to do with all that money. ~ I went underground and started buying them back. The teachers were getting wise by then which helped raise their value for resale. I learned to control supply for the demand was there, ~ every little boy whats to whistle very, very loud! and if he’s not allowed to have something , all the better and the more he wants it.

      • nc

        DaveH. if the private sector had to provide it’s own defense now being provided by the public sector how much would that add to the cost of what your sacred private sector produces for us? The mises concept works only in a strife free world! Mean foreign nations and angry workers here don’t exactly allow big business to run the world! Maybe in land locked 18th century Austria but not here!

      • DaveH

        Pure conjecture, NC.
        The private sector would supply its own security at a much lower cost per service rendered.
        There is no free lunch, NC. What might seem economical to you (by Government) is being paid by others who don’t willingly pay for the service.
        The Private Sector has outperformed the Public Sector throughout past and current history. It really isn’t Rocket Science to figure out that people who have the profit incentive are going to work much more productively than those who have guaranteed jobs and insulation from their consumers.
        Your wishin’ and hopin’, in the contrary face of experience, doesn’t result in a good economy, NC.

      • DaveH

        NC says — “Maybe in land locked 18th century Austria but not here!”

        You have no idea what you’re talking about, NC, but then what’s unusual about that?
        It got it’s name because proponents of the discipline lived in Austria at the time of its development, not because it was applied in Austria. That was in the late 1800s (that’s 19th century, NC).

        As with any kind of economics which threatens to undermine the myths promoted by Court Economists for the benefit of the Leaders, Austrian Economics comes under great criticism from those Court Economists.

        I doubt, NC, that you have the intelligence to grasp Austrian Economic Theory even if you wanted to.

      • Nancy in Nebraska

        nc, the military no longer provides DEFENSE!!! It only provides OFFENSE!!! Our country has been invaded by globalists who are trying to destroy it. The military does nothing! Our country has been invaded by illegal aliens who harm our people by taking available jobs and draining educational and medical resources. Our military does nothing! Russian jets have flown in our air space off the west coast. Our military has done nothing! Russian subs have patrolled in OUR waters in the gulf. The military has done nothing! When 911 happened, our military did nothing! They were ordered to stand down! In my lifetime, our military has only participated in OFFENSE!!! Our government has engaged our military in illegal wars and the overthrowing of other country’s leaders! There have been NO righteous wars in my lifetime!!! NONE that were for OUR DEFENSE or our FREEDOM!!! considering that, the private sector could probably defend US cheaper than what we’re paying now for NO defense!!! We could eliminate the globalist’s offenses and save a lot of money!!!

      • deerinwater

        Nancy in Nebraska says:

        “nc, the military no longer provides DEFENSE!!! It only provides OFFENSE!”

        You might think that, ~ but that only means that you are not aware of what’s going on out side Nebraska Nancy.

        You ever hear of STRATCOM? It’s true that you probably don’t see much military action in Nebraska. ~ while every sq ft of her air space is lorded over by the military 24/7.

        Try going off shore and see who you met up with about 15 miles out. Try getting in your fishing boat and cruise up close to a flat top or even a moored luxury liner. It’s then that you will see some defense take place.

      • Nancy in Nebraska

        deer, you say have I ever heard of Stratcom. Duh! In case you didn’t know it, Stratcom is headquartered in Omaha, NEBRASKA! Well, technically Bellevue, which abuts Omaha!!! I hear about Stratcom ALL the time!!! And SAC (Strategic Air Command) before that!!! I’m not as naive as you think! We Nebraskans don’t live in the wilderness! Omaha is actually a thriving metropolis! (home of globalist, warren buffet) The population, including the suburbs is approaching a million people. Not huge, but definitely not wilderness!!! The truth is that if our government weren’t out to conquer the world, the world wouldn’t hate us as much!!! You show me ONE incident of our military needing to DEFEND us that wasn’t related to the OFFENSIVE measures we have taken against others!!! JUST ONE!!!

        • deerinwater

          Well, why make such an outlandish statement when you know better Nancy? Don’t you want people to believe you?

        • deerinwater

          ONE incident of our military needing to DEFEND us that wasn’t related to the OFFENSIVE measures we have taken against others!!! JUST ONE!!!

          Okay, ~ that is a much better statement Nancy ~ So who threw the first rock is what you are asking? and begs an answer.

          I’m behind on many fronts this morning ~ let me get back with you. I’d like to address that question. ~ as I can agree with you impart.

      • Nancy in Nebraska

        deer, what “outlandish” statement are you talking about? I don’t think I said anything outlandish!?! ???

      • deerinwater

        ” the military no longer provides DEFENSE!!! It only provides OFFENSE!!!”

        For all the many loyal and committed American soldier’s walking picket in far away places or endure 14 ft. side-seas in smaller craft protecting American lives and American interest on this cool January night, I think that is a most unfair statement Nancy.

      • Nancy in Nebraska

        deer, I’ll tell you what’s unfair!!! It’s unfair that our government has deceived many young men and women into putting their lives on the line for the globalist’s dirty wars!!! These wars are NOT about DEFENSE of our country!!! They are about money, power and control!!! Our young men and women are DYING to overthrow governments that the globalists disagree with and to line the pockets of those in the military industrial complex!!! It’s time that people open their eyes and STOP giving their sons and daughters to the blood sucking globalists!!! If our country were actually threatened I would encourage every man and woman to come to her defense!!! But these wars are just murder for greed and power!!!

        • deerinwater

          I agree completely Nancy and that is exactly what W allowed to happen, as did Kennedy.

          While, as I understand it ~ the first US involvement in Nam happen during Eisenhower’s administration, ~ yet he was wise to the military complex and their ambitions. The Gulf of Tonkin incident was contrived and over played by people with ambitions and a black heart.

          I was then young, I played my little part and lucky enough to now be old and much wiser. ( I would hope) I did everything within my power to discourage US leadership from committing to these middle east wars. I felt it my duty. ~ I still do. It’s my job to defend soldiers and I take it serious. I will speak out at every opportunity, being popular is a luxury I cannot afford.

      • Nancy in Nebraska

        Also deer, you FORGOT to name ONE legitimate war in recent history, that was fought to DEFEND our country!!! You probably didn’t forget. You just couldn’t think of one.

      • deerinwater

        Well Nancy, to give your quandary the attention that it deserves, will take time, ~ I just don’t have it at the moment. ~

        I’m closing out 2012. ~ Still crafting invoices for work completed in December and paying bills. ~ I’m growing weary, but about done. ~ Three more to go while new work is pouring in and I have people out sick. The flu has been kicking everyone butt the last 45 days ~ that~ and pollen allergies ~

        The wind has been blowing out of the North strong and some of Nebraska and half of Kansas is in the air it seems. It’s been raining pecans for three weeks now. I’ve learned to dislike them unless they are in a pie.

        Come spring and the wind shifts, I’ll send you some good old Texas Mountain Cedar pollen, I know you’ll enjoy it.

        If the last three days are any example of what 2013 is going to be like ~ it’s going to be the comeback year. i know there are many parts of the nation that still suffer.

        Even around here they suffer ~ how much is their own fault , I’m not sure. ~ So many, just don’t understand ~ They want someone to give them a job so they can complain about their job. So many are simply unemployable. If I must stand over them to get anything done right, I might as well do it myself. But alas, I’ve more than I can do already, so why hire people to work myself to death?

        1 out of 50 people one has got something that I can build on ~ teach them how to take over, be productive and prosper on their own when I’m no longer around.

        1:06 AM, ~ wish I hadn’t drank that coffee at 9.

        Nite ~ Carry on,

      • Nancy in Nebraska

        deer, don’t misunderstand my feelings for the military and veterans! I admire them! I respect them and their courage! I rely upon them to protect us!!! I feel they are being used and abused! BUT, it is THEM that the rest of us will have to rely upon for our freedoms! They understand what freedom means and are willing to give everything to keep it! I believe that in the near future they will be our heroes beyond any description!!! I believe that when tyranny takes its final steps to imprison us, THEY will save us!!! I LOVE them! Every one of them! I’m so grateful for the training that they’ve received and for the dedication they give to this great nation!!! Everything will depend upon them keeping the oath that they took, to defend the constitution from enemies, foreign and domestic!!!

      • Nancy in Nebraska

        BTW, deer. The fact that you have to think SO hard to come up with ONE example of our military DEFENDING us, shows that I am RIGHT!!! Under the rule of our government, our military has become an OFFENSIVE force, NOT a DEFENSIVE one as intended by our founding fathers!!!

    • The Christian American

      The way they figure is they can’t tax to much because that will cut production, hence the flow of tax revenues. If they tax to little they won’t be stealing as much as they can. There is a balance. On this point democrats want to tax to much and some of the republicans are better men. Notice! Aside from the fact their wealth is what they are after, the people’s well being doesn’t enter the equation.

  • ArmthyTeachers


  • Scott A

    The “Fiscal Cliff” is moot. US government spending falls into three categories.

    Discretionary spending is what we normally think of as ‘government.’ It funds everything from the military to Homeland Security to the national parks.

    Mandatory spending covers all the major entitlement programs like Social Security and Medicare.

    Then there’s interest on the debt, which is so large they had to make it a special category.

    The latter two categories are spent automatically, just like your mortgage payment that gets sucked out of the bank account before you have a chance to spend it. The only thing Congress has a say over is Discretionary Spending. Hence the name.

    But here’s the problem– the US fiscal situation is so untenable that the government fails to collect enough tax revenue to cover mandatory spending and debt interest. In Fiscal Year 2011, for example, the US government spent $176 billion MORE on debt interest and mandatory spending than they generated in tax revenue.

    In Fiscal Year 2012, which just ended 6 weeks ago, that shortfall increased to $251 billion. This means that they could cut the ENTIRE discretionary budget and still be in the hole by $251 billion.

    This is why the Fiscal Cliff is irrelevant. The automatic cuts that are going to take place don’t even begin to address the actual problem; they’re cutting $110 billion from the discretionary budget… yet only $16.9 billion from the mandatory budget.

    Given that the entire problem is with mandatory spending, slashing the discretionary budget is pointless. It’s as if the US economy is a speeding train heading towards a ravine at 200 mph, and the conductors are arguing about whether they should slow down to 150 or 175.

  • Terry Bateman

    Since the president and congress have no intention of cutting federal spending to
    reduce the deficit they need to GROW government revenue through economic expansion.
    How about a five year plan grow the gross domestic product 5% per year and increase
    federal government tax revenues even more?

    1. Set the corporate tax rate at a minimum and maximum of 20%. They would pay 20%
    and only 20% and not less than 20% regardless of applicable credits,deductions,
    exclusions, exemptions, subsidies, etc.

    2.Have one 20% individual tax rate for all income levels but for incomes above
    $100,000 single/$200,000 joint make that a minimum tax rate: They would pay
    20%, and only 20%, and not less than 20%.All other current exemptions, deductions,
    exclusions, etc. would apply for incomes below $100,000 single/$200,000 joint. They
    would apply for incomes above $100,000/$200,000 only to the extent that 20% tax
    rate is paid.

    3.Make permanent child care and earned income tax credits subject to 20% minimum
    rate for incomes above $100,000 single/$200,000 joint.

    4. Make permanent provisions where corporations and businesses can get the
    tax benefits of capital spending in one year, subject to minimum 20% rate.

    5. Repeal all the federal regulations added from 1992-2012 and quit making new ones.

    6. Set aside environmental restrictions/delays on oil,gas,nuclear, wind, and solar
    energy exploration, construction, transportation, treatment,and operation and

    7. Set aside environmental restrictions/delays on all infrastructure contruction,
    repair and maintenance.

    8. Spend $1 trillion on an infrastructure rebuild, to have the roads,highways,bridges,
    sewers, sewage treatment, water treatment and transportation, airports, aviation
    command and control, ports, power generation, transmission, and imperviousness
    to catastrophic weather events we need for the next century.

    9. Make ALL INCOME subject to federal tax withholding for social security/medicare,

    If the federal government is not going to cut entitlements or any other spending to
    cut the deficit, then let it cut the taxes and environmental and regulation restrictions
    and return the money to the people that earned it and get out of our way and watch
    us EARN our way out of the deficit hole the government put us in.

    • The Christian American

      Imagine, Up until 1910 the ONLY source of revenue for the FEDERAL GoVERNMENT was the Bureau of Customs with their Excise taxes. Then the states ran the show, now we’re locked into bondage to the federal government. I’ve heard about terminal cancer but political terminal cancer? We’re living it.

      • nc

        Christian, where do live that your life is so miserable from being in bondage to the government?? Does your church or Congressman know about your plight? Since this country is so poorly run please forward me a list of countries where you would be more comfortable living and I will help you with your problem!

        I have never encountered a military roadblock in my travels! What do you say to them when they have stopped you? Have you ever had to show your papers to move about the country? No one has ever told me that I could not speak my mind or write down my opinions! Do you have a network to pass your opinions to others to avoid government censors?? That must be a real pain in the butt! What state has those rules of bondage??

        YOU ARE ONE SICK PUPPY! You obviously feel that the government has no right to tax you beyond that YOU feel is right! Who died and left you in charge of tax rates?

        If you are going to complain about things please do it about the things those of us who are not paranoid can see! Fight your own ghost! It’s a pain in the butt trying to guess at what only 10% of the people are “seeing?”.

      • Nancy in Nebraska

        nc, there are none so blind as he who refuses to see! Taxation IS a form of bondage! They spend the money and say that WE owe it! You say we can leave and go to another country. Ah, yes! But NOT with your money! They passed a new law when that billionaire from facebook took his money and ran, giving up his citizenship! You say we don’t get stopped and asked for our papers. YOU ARE WRONG!!! I can speak personally about this!!! My husband and I were driving on Interstate 80 west of North Platte, NE. We were FORCED off the interstate at a rest area! We were asked for our papers!!! We were then interrogated as to where we were traveling from and what our purpose was there. And we were asked where we were traveling to and what our purpose was!!! I was outraged!!! I wrote letters to the governor, the state senators, my congressmen, my senators and my local paper! I got one response. “That’s their job”. We might as well be in communist Russia! We have lost our rights and nobody cares or will answer to it! Try traveling on a plane! Not only are you asked for your papers but you are forcibly irradiated and molested!!! Don’t be naive!!!

      • deerinwater

        CA says; “Imagine, Up until 1910 the ONLY source of revenue for the FEDERAL GoVERNMENT was the Bureau of Customs with their Excise taxes. Then the states ran the show, now we’re locked into bondage to the federal government. ”

        I say; And 50 years later we had a 5 year Civil War over States Rights of with the Federal Government won but not before a grand total of 775,638 dead and wound Americans.

        The Confederate States of American gave the Union a fight of it life. Combatant Union body count was 168,496 compared to 87,02 for the Confederate. ~ while “others” and non combatant did not fair as well , with the North losing 268,916 and the South losing 225,000 Souls to a War over States Rights.

        I would hope for everyone’s sake it has been decide by now.

        The Confederate States threw everything that We had or hoped to have to win this War but it was not winnable. Accept that as a history lesson for the cost was oh so very high.

        More Souls paid for this War then actively fought it and that’s the nature of Civil war.

    • Terry Bateman

      I want to adjust my tax recommendations:

      Corporate, individual, dividend, capital gains, estate tax rates all 20% for all
      income levels with absolutely no deductions,exemptions, credits, etc. All
      incomes taxed at minimum and maximum of 20%..

  • jimmy

    Congressional Reform Act of 2012

    1. No Tenure / No Pension.

    A Congressman/woman collects a salary while in office and receives no
    pay when they’re out of office.

    2. Congress (past, present & future) participates in Social
    Security. All funds in the Congressional retirement fund move to the
    Social Security system immediately. All future funds flow into
    the Social Security system, and Congress participates with the
    American people. It may not be used for any other purpose.

    3. Congress can purchase their own retirement plan, just as all
    Americans do.

    4. Congress will no longer vote themselves a pay raise.
    Congressional pay will rise by the lower of CPI or 3%.

    5. Congress loses their current health care system and
    participates in the same health care system as the American people.

    6. Congress must equally abide by all laws they impose on the
    American people.

    7. All contracts with past and present Congressmen/women are void
    effective 12/1/12. The American people did not make this contract with Congressmen/women.
    Congress made all these contracts for themselves. Serving in Congress is an honor, not a career. The Founding Fathers envisioned citizen legislators, so ours should serve their term(s), then go home and ba#$%$ to work.

    If each person contacts a minimum of twenty people then it will only take three days for most people (in the U.S. ) to receive the message. Don’t you think it’s time?


    26 Replies

    37users liked this commentThumbs UpThumbs Down15users disliked this comment
    Brian • 2 hrs 33 mins ago Report Abuse

    What about the president, he proposes the annual budget, it starts with hi

    • Paul Wells

      I love the idea…the only rub is, you have to have Congress to introduce this legislation, send it to committee to work out the language and details, then open floor debate to discuss. Likelihood of Congress actually doing something responsible for the good of this Country? 0 to .5%, I’d guess. But you are correct, this would be a good start.

    • The Christian American

      Read “War is a Racket” by USMC Lt. General Smedley Butler, ret’d. He is a two times winner of the Congressional medal of Honor. It’s on the net.

    • DaveH

      There is only one real way to fix the mess — Cut Government Spending Dramatically.
      The Canadians did it:

      From the article:
      “Martin went to great lengths to bring the public on board, televising the lobbying efforts of interest groups and publishing dire reports on Canada’s fiscal situation, and then embarked on what was in all probability the greatest reduction in government spending ever undertaken in Canada from its inception. Following a peak deficit of $42 billion in fiscal 1993–1994, the administration managed to reverse the deficit and produce a surplus by 1997–1998, and sustain the surplus over the following two years before posting a historical record of $17.1 billion in budgetary surplus in fiscal 2000–2001″.
      “And thus effectively the whole of the fiscal turnaround in Canada, to the extent it was effected through endogenous factors, can be quite unambiguously attributed to cuts in government spending. Altogether, Chretien and Martin presided over more than $80 billion in surpluses[18] and there is no doubt that this is the single most enduring feature of their legacy”.

      • DaveH

        Total Federal Revenue in 2011 was $2.3 Trillion.
        Total Federal Spending in 2004 was $2.3 Trillion.
        So we merely need to cut Federal Spending to 2004 levels to cure the deficit.
        Was it so bad in 2004?

        Of course, if I had my druthers, I would cut it back to 1910 levels — 8% of GDP, instead of the current 41% of GDP.

      • Flashy

        LOL Davey boy. Once again misleading figures and projecting them as “the answer’

        think. it does work .

        The US is far different than Canada. As well, the Canadian turnabout came with tax increases as well as budget cuts.

        What the Canadians faced in the 90′s is not even close to what we are given by the conservative policies of the 2001-2009 fiasco.

        1. We are burdened by a military budget which is difficult to cut. heck, the only thing the extremists demand not to cut is the military. Canada had the benefit of the Clinton economy to help its trade and imporve its books. the world economy was also on sound footing. We have no such assets as the world economies were drug down by the fiasco of the conservatives tossing us deep into debt and transferring the wealth from the Makers…the Middle the takers..the wealthy.

        We also had a budget surplus in the 90′s. We wasted it by giving huge tax braks to the wealthy, two unfunded wars, and allowing the conservatives to throw us deep into debt while entrenching the Welfare to the Wealthy programs.

        But of course, such analysis is beyond your simplistic shallow mind. You read a partial snippet of an article, and since it is from your fake gawds of economics, you treat it as gospel. When, in fact, it holds about as much reality to today than Santa Claus.

      • DaveH

        I showed you mine, now show me yours. Where are your references? You seriously don’t think the readers of this site will just take your word for it? You have no credibility, Flashshill. I’ve proven that over and over again.

      • DaveH

        Flashshill says — “We are burdened by a military budget which is difficult to cut”.
        It is? Why? I thought you Liberal Progressives didn’t like the US military imperialism?
        So where are your snow-jobs putting down military spending, Flashshill?
        Could it be that your masters are paying you to support any kind of Big Government?
        Nah, surely Flashshill would have more integrity than that. I kid of course.
        Flashshill and integrity are like oil and water.

      • DaveH

        Flashman says — “But of course, such analysis is beyond your simplistic shallow mind”.

        Isn’t it funny that I regularly expose Flashshill’s nonsense with my “simplistic shallow mind”?
        That doesn’t speak very well for your capabilities, Flashshill.

      • Flashy

        davey boy…just what would you like references to? The fact we had two unfunded wars during the conservative rule of the 2000s? . The fact that the 90′s had the US in a surplus and the world economy was healthy? That taxes were raised and not just spending cut when Canada turned itself around?

        Are you that unawares that you require hand holding just to realize not so distant historical facts? Perhaps you can look it up and see if there’s a catchy title in Mises for you to put up and ‘recommend’ others read it…even though you haven’t.

      • DaveH

        Historical Government Spending in Canada since 1991:

      • DaveH

        For those who want to know just how useless the Propagandist Flashshill is:

        From the article:
        “Data from the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development show that total federal, provincial, and local government spending in Canada plunged from a peak of 53 percent of GDP in 1992 to just 39 percent by the mid-1990s. In 2012, spending will be 42 percent of GDP, which compares to total government spending in the United States of 41 percent. Government spending in both countries is too high, but Canada has at least been moving in the right direction on fiscal reforms”.
        “Canada’s fiscal reforms undermine the Keynesian notion that cutting government spending harms economic growth. Canada’s cuts were coincident with the beginning of a 15-year boom that only ended when the United States dragged Canada into recession in 2009. The Canadian unemployment rate plunged from more than 11 percent in the early 1990s to less than 7 percent by the end of that decade as the government shrank in size. After the 2009 recession, Canada has resumed solid growth and its unemployment rate today is about a percentage point lower than the U.S. rate”.

      • DaveH

        Once again, I have sent Flashshill running home to mommy.

  • FreedomFighter

    According to a Lieutenant in a North Carolina police department with 31 years experience, law enforcement is preparing to take away our 2nd Amendment. The training has already begun as law enforcement in North Carolina have already begun training with military drones. We learn that the governor of North Carolina has been selected by President Barack Obama to help enforce the martial law scenario. This Lieutenant also states that he expects gun confiscation to begin within the next 2 to 3 months. He also confirms information that we have heard before, that a contrived economic collapse is about to occur leading to martial law in America, as early as the beginning of 2013.

    Police Audio Confirm: Going For The Guns – Martial Law By Early 2013

    Its all contrived guys – get ready for the takeover.

    Laus Deo
    Semper Fi

  • HKaufman

    To John Myers, kARE YOU A FINANCIAL expert? If not stop writing articles to further irritate and or add to the already vile no confidence in Government since 2000.. Cease the prognostications those dogs no longer hunt, reference the Mayans. Therefore this article is out of bounds. Wish all you GOP bandwagon jumpers would learn one basic fact, this Garbage started in 1983, and continued to dissolve from 2000-2008 and since every comment seem to be a slam against presidents, lets put this in the REAL Presidents lap. YES PRESIDENT INEPTO sitting comfortably in Texas. Obamahas tried to right this BUSH problem, but we have Cantor who is another work of Stupidity and got elected, not to mention the T-party, oops i really mean P***Party who have only their own greed and the hell with every one else.. What branchof this damd Government controlsthe DAM SPENDING, Clue its sits in the door labeled House of Representatives, ever go to Washington and take a tour may help most of the livid bull crap comments. Nlo need to reply because if one does nothave a Doctorate in Finance I will not debate with anyone, however if you do, then bring it do not sing it. I refuse to even debate with a Journalistic Prognosticator, bring your proof of advanced degree and financial facts then we will talk otherwise do not go there with someone who has a Doctorate in Finances,Constitutional Law and spend 5 decades working in this area… ENOUGH IS ENOUGH…….

    • Nancy in Nebraska

      To answer the question you asked in your first sentence, yeah, he is! Did you bother to read his bio, following the article?!? And MANY of us here have grown up and recognized that the whole democrat/republican thing is bullcrap!!! The government, BOTH parties, is controlled by globalists who want to control the world! Their goal is to remove our freedoms and destroy our republic! And I hope that John Meyers and everybody else continues to shout it from the rooftops til idiots like you, get it!!!

      • Nancy in Nebraska

        Oops! Sorry Mr. Myers! I spelled your name wrong. I apologize!

      • John Myers

        No worries Nancy. I’ve been called a lot worse than a mis-spelling. Thank you for reading and thank you all for reading and writing your comments. Happy New Year to you and yours.

      • DaveH

        Happy New Year to you, John.

      • deerinwater

        Goodnight John, ~ I especially enjoyed the story about your Dad and your tractor ride. It brought back old memories.

        2013 will be a great year, ~ write that down. Farming is a slow process while harvest is fast and furious work.

    • Nancy in Nebraska

      HKaufman, I forgot…just wanted to say you should get a doctorate in English before you come back on here and demand to talk with people who have a doctorate in finance! Your post is very difficult to read and understand! I doubt that you have a doctorate in anything! But if you do, you should ask for a refund!!!

    • Leroy

      Does the name House Speaker Pelosi happen to ring a bell with you? And maybe Harry Reid? Get of your ego trip man and get real.

  • Don

    hate to say it but what they do for the fiscal cliff deal it won’t be enough.

  • Richard R. Tryon

    At age 80, I suspect I may have many memories like those of your father and yourself about what happens when machinery gets out of control. Disaster comes in many forms with machines and tools. Some results in simple cuts or quick amputation of a fingernail or something a lot harder to replace!

    So it is with the economy, especially in a nation that sets itself up to be centrally directed by Czars who claim to know all of the relevant data in real enough time to act correctly. As your story tells, someone has to have enough awareness and courage to Yell at the expert in charge. Your Dad may never have thanked you for the shouted warning, but you both knew it was implicit in your relationship that you made the shout to get his attention, fortunately at a point where a hard braking of just one main drive wheel did not result in a quick flip to crush or toss all of you in different directions! I once hit the right wheel brake to avoid trespass on the neighbors boundary and broke the bolt on the draw bar to a harrow that might have flipped up to hit me in my dumb head, if it had not broken! I am still grateful even though the man who cursed me was himself the primary culprit. I was not ready to realize the danger of too sharp a turn at a low speed, while pulling a harrow.

    Yes, the danger to the U.S. is most profound when those in charge make poor decisions or are not even aware that their approach can’t work, as Friedrick Von Hayek explained to his fellow professor at the London School of Economics in the 1930s. But, John Maynard Keynes was the darling of those who jumped to the conclusion that planning would yield the best results and also win votes with those whose thinking is never more than superficial.

    Planning works perfectly when all the variables involved respond in an exact way and can be verified by what is now called ‘metrics’. The trouble is twofold: a) We can’t even define all the variables, much less predict them; and b) the metrics to measure are never recorded, verified, and put into the model in real enough time to be judged by an internal process that takes into account all the other knowns and unknowns. In short, your Dad, when aroused, suddenly should have known that his downhill path could not be stopped with a downshift- only an even braking stood a chance and with big wheels it would have. Chances are he was trying to get the transmission back into the high gear when the low one was not available, so had to keep his left foot on the clutch, while trying to add brake with the right foot on that big wheel to turn without hitting a tree? You were all lucky.

    The U.S. economy has a component of great consequence that is ignored by the ‘big-thinkers’ that is called the puny local economy! Actually it is far larger in the aggregate, but it is the giants that get all the attention, in part, because the metrics are already visible, if out of date. Better something than nothing? Yes and No. Take your pick. You are wrong in either case because you can’t make the machine do what you want it to do unless you can stop it! Only Armageddon can do that and if it includes stopping the Earth’s rotation, there will be one huge wind storm.

    Nobody has local metrics because they don’t exist. Besides many of them are not measured in dollars, only in a different kind of cents that is called sense! Yes, people will barter exchange when the government has printed itself into oblivion. Of course, the big guys will be sure to have enough gold and silver to keep them in power and eating as long as the rest of us can get something in exchange for whatever we have that they want?

    Only one thing is really at issue, if you forget energy to move it. That is food. When money is just paper to burn, then barter rules for us. The key story for you to write about will be: How does Obama tax barter exchange?

    If I barter 10#s of some food for a pair of shoes, how will either of us pay sales or any other tax? More to the point, how will any tax collector know that any taxable event occurred? Will an agent at the door to the giant market stop me and note that I am wearing new shoes and ask what did I pay for them? When I say I paid nothing, I found them yesterday and don’t recall where, will he look at his video record by my i.d. SS# and show that my hands were empty when I entered, will he know that the potatoes used were in my pockets?

    Worse, if he also has access to a video that shows me leaving potatoes in the store that were picked up by the man that may have been the show salesman, will we both go to prison? I sure hope so! That is one place where they have to feed me! No, the agent will not really want to send me to prison even though he gets food for doing so. His life will be in danger, not because I still have a gun, just other ways to end his practice.

    The Russians wrote the book on this process and when the government can no longer run the system, all starts over without the current government. Is this how Obama gets to retire?

    • John Myers

      Very much liked your comment Richard.
      Best wished in ’13,

      • Richard R. Tryon

        Thanks John for your favorable note. I think we have a lot of company but wonder if we will ever find our way out? Or do we have to wait and start all over like the Russians had to do?

    • Chuck S

      For something strange, check out “I’m in Love with Friedrich Hayek ”

  • Chuck S

    Maybe we should have gone over the cliff so some of the 50% of people who pay no income taxes will pay something. Also, they’d realize that the Bush tax cuts cut everybody’s taxes, not just the rich. People paying 15% went to 0% or 10% – they’d have gone back up. Hopefully people can realize that they benefited from the Bush cuts for the last 10 years.

    Everybody should be concerned that their bosses may have to downsize to pay their higher taxes.

    The deal did nothing to cut the deficit.

  • DaveH

    Get ready for more dirty tricks by the people who will promise you arpege but give you toilet water:

  • DaveH

    More from the people who the shills keep insisting aren’t taking our Freedom:

    • deerinwater

      Oh! come on David, ~ Are you still eating up Foxed News?

      It’s been documented by independent studies many times over the last several years, Fox viewers are some of the most poorly informed Americans regarding both national and International events . Pretty women, Sports and Political disinformation has been their strongest suite long before we found Palm trees growing in Wisconsin.

      Saturday, 18 February 2012
      Did you know that Fox News *Literally* has the right to lie in its “news”?

      Yup. It’s legal to lie and say your news is “fair and balanced”! lmao

      Ever wonder why it is that Fox News can lie over and over again – yet continue to call itself “News”? It’s because Fox News is a corporation – and ever since that 1886 Supreme Court case of Southern Pacific Railroad versus Santa Clara County when a rogue court reporter named JC Bancroft Davis slipped corporate personhood into the legal record – the courts have ruled time and time again that corporations – since they have all the rights that actual people have – could also lie just like people can.
      read more ;

      “In a blow to his own network, Fox News host Juan Williams debunked false narratives that Fox News has frequently pushed since the attack on the U.S. Consulate in Benghazi, Libya.

      In an opinion piece for The Hill, Williams offered three “corrections” for what he describes as “deliberate misinformation” from Republicans (and their conservative media mouthpieces) about the Benghazi attack.”
      “After a Humiliating Election Night, Will Fox News Stop Lying?
      Roger Ailes may finally realize that lying is bad for business — and the GOP.
      November 7, 2012 |
      On big news nights, when the sort of people who don’t watch Fox News every night are more likely to turn it on, the channel nearly always puts its best face forward. The real crazies aren’t invited. The idiots and most grotesque race-baiters and conspiracy theorists and worst hacks wait patiently until the next morning, when Fox & Friends resumes as scheduled with its usual audience of credulous and furious old white people.

      So last night we got Megyn Kelly, Bret Baier, Brit Hume and Chris Wallace hosting a roster of oddly reasonable pundits and analysts, from Juan Williams to Karl Rove and Joe Trippi.

      Of course all of those people are horrible and mendacious in their own special ways. But they’re not Sean Hannity. That’s the point. Dick Morris wasn’t invited. Donald Trump didn’t call in. Michael Barone was on hand, but of the people who got the election disastrously, hilariously wrong last night, he’s probably the least clownish. Bill O’Reilly performed the night’s most explicitly racial outburst, but O’Reilly has wholly reinvented himself for the Obama era as a Fox moderate. He’s now the guy who says the president’s not so bad, not even that extreme, just a bit too liberal for his taste.”
      Fox News Covers Up Mitt Romney’s Lies As Exposed By PolitiFact
      Posted by Mark on June 30, 2012 at 9:16 am.
      Another example of the myriad means by which Fox News distorts reality on behalf of Republicans are the choices they make in what not to report as well as what to report dishonestly (which are the only two options considered by Fox reporters).




  • NativeBlood

    This excerpt from (The Army Insider)
    Congress’ excruciating, extraordinary New Year’s Day approval of a compromise averted a prolonged tumble off the fiscal cliff. But it only delayed the sequestration fight by two months, and most will see a bite out of their take-home pay.

    Even the DOD will share a cut soon. Hoping that everyone gets to join in the pain.

  • Ed

    Guess what, folks, the word is DEPRESSION, and we have been in one for some time.

  • http://yahoo D.Darlow

    Im glad you don’t have access to my checkbook .I manage to pay my debts on time .I don’t spend more than I make .We need to stop the Feds from having control of a checkbook

  • http://none cm willard

    eliminate raise a few million ks hire and pay for good results complaining will get
    you nowhere

  • old hillbilly

    As always, citizens have many excellent assessments, arguments, and solutions to our fiscal demise. Predictably, nothing happens because compromised citizens tolerate the deception and corruption governing our executive and legislative bodies. Those officers are held by oath to preserve and protect the written Constitution and statutes of our sovereign nation, with highest of ethics and truth, being bound to serve citizens, not self. Rigid high accounting standards, procedures, and ethics are no less applicable to government than any corporation or citizen! By the same token, an attorney general by office qualifications understands the crimes, yet obstructs justice to aid and abet the continuance of those crimes… is subject to the same crimes plus various others including oath of office and treason if the nation compromised. The same applies to executive and legislative officers – my state has jailed an impressive quantity of both, because citizens don’t tolerate it! It can get very uncomfortable for officials who accept corruption.

    That means formal official deliberation, diligence, and approval of finite budgets that are subject to internal control with independent checks and balances, top down disclosure, independent audit, etc. Unilateral spending or allowing spending outside that process is subject to immediate arrest – private or public sector. (It happens all of the time – nothing new!) As long a corrupt executive-legislative majority can appoint “their” attorney general and control the treasury and accounting staff, corruption will rule, until citizens remove them remove them by recall, vote, or criminal prosecution in local, state, and federal courts with jury trial (all of them swore to uphold Constitution and statutes)!

    A majority of evil rules by intimidation because good people who don’t know better are easily intimidated and impressed by success. Take two or three down and their house of cards falls, democrat and republican alike. Think about Reed, McConnell, Boehner, & Pelosi – no budget in 4 years, obstructing the process, passing poison pills, creating chaos to pass poison pills & boondoggle bills no one had time to read… So much mayhem and loot to account for… If your legislators are good, they’ll appreciate the help. If not, remind them of the endless violations and where it goes when cards start falling.


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