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Clamping Down On New Technologies

October 8, 2010 by  

Clamping Down On New Technologies

With the advent of new communications technologies like voice-over-Internet and text messaging, the Feds are having a tough time monitoring our conversations. And they aren’t particularly happy about it.

So to better monitor domestic “terrorists” like returning veterans, Ron Paul supporters, small government advocates and Tea Party members — according to the Department of Homeland Security — President Barack Obama will soon propose new legislation to mandate that the U.S. government have access to all forms of communications, “including encrypted email, transmitters like BlackBerry, social networking  Web sites like Facebook and software that allows ‘peer-to-peer’ messaging like Skype,” writes Salon.com’s Glenn Greenwald.

What Obama and his Justice Department goons are looking for is complete and instant access to all communications. Or, as Greenwald writes, “…every communication and all other human transactions must be subject to government surveillance. Nothing may be beyond the reach of spying agencies. There must be no such thing as true privacy from government authorities.”

And don’t think a compliant Congress — even if Republicans gain the majority in one or both Houses — won’t go along. Richard Falkenrath, a top-level Homeland Security official in the George W. Bush administration and now a principal in the private security firm Chertoff Group — led by the serpent-headed former Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff — thinks such monitoring is a great idea.

In an op-ed piece that ran in The New York Times Aug. 9, just after media reports came out that United Arab Emirates and Saudi Arabia were banning the use of BlackBerrys within their borders, Falkenrath wrote, “Among law enforcement investigators and intelligence officers [in the U.S.] the Emirates’ decision met with approval, admiration and perhaps even a touch of envy.”

The last administration drove a stake through the heart of privacy with the passage of the completely unpatriotic USA PATRIOT Act. There were a few howls about the loss of liberty from some Democrats, but Republicans quickly jumped on board.

But this intrusive legislation — coupled with the recently announced intention to require U.S. banks to report all electronic money transfers into and out of the country (as opposed to just those exceeding $10,000) — will end any vestiges of freedom.

And for those of you who spout the pabulum, “I don’t break any laws so I don’t care if they monitor me,” consider this. Greenwald reminds us that Senator Frank Church (D-Idaho), after leading the investigation into the spying abuses of the decades prior to the 1970s and the growing surveillance technologies of the National Security Administration had this to say:

“That capability at any time could be turned on the American people and no American would have any privacy left, such is the capability to monitor everything: telephone conversations, telegrams, it doesn’t matter. There would be no place to hide.”

He added that if a dictator ever took over, the NSA “could enable it to impose tyranny, and there would be no way to fight back.”

Obama was hypocritical when he criticized UAE and Saudi Arabia for their actions regarding BlackBerry and then turned around and advocated for the same thing. Couple this with his Internet Kill Switch Bill proposal — supported by Senators Joe Lieberman and Jay Rockefeller (who want to give the President the power to turn off the Internet in order to be more like China) — and you see we have a totalitarian regime just one step away from a dictatorship.

Bob Livingston

is an ultra-conservative American who has been writing a newsletter since 1969. Bob has devoted much of his life to research and the quest for truth on a variety of subjects. Bob specializes in health issues such as nutritional supplements and alternatives to drugs, as well as issues of privacy (both personal and financial), asset protection and the preservation of freedom.

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  • s c

    What’s the difference between a Big Brother and a Fuhrer? Some might say merely a difference in locale. It’s obvious that governments around the world (including ours) are determined to do whatever they can to gain and keep total control.
    Total control over every country in the world is the ultimate goal of those who manipulate leaders from the shadows. They can claim that their motives are benign, but since total control is the ultimate goal, that excuse is lame and must be seen as the true character of any nation that dares to lust after complete control.

    • FreedomFighter

      Maybe its time for:

      Freedom Network: a free, conservative, entertaining broadcast digital TV channel, setup in major metro area’s, supported by commericals for the listeners. GOP-Tea Party could probably setup a few test sites.

      Target audience and “want free TV” viewer base usually have jobs making money, good for business, get the truth out, and stomp out socialist/communist lies and propaganda.

      Laus Deo
      Semper Fi

      Who does not like free TV.

      • FreedomFighter

        hint “internet TV” too.

        Laus Deo
        Semper Fi

      • Angel Wannabe

        FF, That’d be great, but like everything else in Washington, the Feds swould infiltrate that under another guise, and corrupt take over that too!!__None of these bloaks in Washington, know how to tell the truth, if they’re life depended upon it. When they do it’s vague and thats they way they want it. They want us guessing and scared! They say if ya lie long enough, ya begin to believe it yourself!

        • http://?? Joe H.

          Angel Wannabe,
          Hey friend, I’m back! been in the hospital for a few, won’t bore you with why, but suffice it to say I’m better now!! almost a week without my puter about had me going to another floor!!!
          I swear these gov types are trying to control how many times a day you excuse your self a day!!! God help us if these progressives get their idea of how to govern entrenched any further!!!

          • Angel Wannabe

            JoeH, Glad your Ok__we need all the help we can get on here! :)

          • libertytrain

            Hey Joe H – hoping you are ok – we need you —-

          • http://?? Joe H.

            Libertytrain,
            Ok now almost had to have another surgery on my back. Made do with a week of traction! what a pain!!! Worst part was no puter for a week!!

          • dan az

            Hey Joe
            sorry to hear it was your back I know exactly how you feel!If it wasnt for the arthritus that fused 4 of them Id still be in traction.Glad to hear your doing better!

          • libertytrain

            Joe- traction I might be able to handle, (might) but no computer – what would be the point of living —– :)

    • Carole Howell

      sc I do not often agree with you, but about the difference between fuhrer and what we have……is not much

      It seems we have really lost it, haven’t we?

  • dan az

    The easiest way for them to gain control over us is to stop all communications and the fastest way would be cut the power and you will also have rioting in the streets,With that in mind how long would it take to declare martial law? Just one small step for man and one leap to NWO.

    • Wayne

      Hussain Barack Nobama would most likely called in his brothers, the Muslim, from outside the United States and NATO to help him with crushing the riots in this country. I don’t trust NObama at all. He is very egotistical and loves the power the mindless people of this country bestowed upon him. I just hope there is enough sensible people to take him out in 2012.

      • Craig

        Blue helmets make great targets. :)

    • Dan Burke

      I just had a scary thought…. look up Smart Grid. Why cut power to everyone when you can be far more, um, selective? The basics of the smart grid is that you have a device locally that controls the power in your home. Maybe another set of devices at various hubs and power stations throughout. The general idea being to save money and stretch electricity further by reducing waste is a great idea on paper. But with the power to control how much power in the hands of politicians, if ever a dictatorship or any form of totalitarian government was in power, then the smart grid could be used to target individuals or specific communities. And since the push is to move us off gas and onto electric cars, imagine how much control they would have over you. You would lose the power to travel. An individual could resort to public transportation if it is available, but without power they would have no phone, no internet, no computer, no television, no microwave, no oven, no stove, no heat, no cooling, and no refrigerator. The list could go on. Now take a whole community. Imagine if say all of Utah or Texas or Idaho objected to the regime. They could use a smart grid to shut off just those “infected” communities. Well, when you and your neighbor are without power, then you are in even more trouble. Then they can come in with offers of food, water, and even restored power if you will just pledge allegiance to their cause. And with a smart grid, imagine if your neighbor got their power restored for their allegiance after you’ve all been without power for a month or two. How many would be lining up to have their power restored too?

      I am against a federally mandated smart grid. I am against a State mandated smart grid, but I grant the States the right to do so. I would just choose to move to a State without it if I could. However, if a private utility (many are public) wanted to use a smart grid for their hubs and junctions, I am fine with it–if they chose a smart grid for their own reasons. In fact, I would love a smart grid for my home, but a PRIVATE smart grid. I wouldn’t want it on some national grid system that a politician or utility company could tamper with. I would want to be the ONLY one with control over my private smart grid. But the more this smart grid stuff is becoming popular, the more I think my visions of a future dream house is one that is independent of the grid. Originally, I dreamed of independent but connected but when I learned that smart grid meters may only read one way (up. not down), I changed that dream to completely independent and not connected. I wouldn’t want to be charged for “producing” electricity as well as consuming it. But hey, I suppose your Marxists would be fine with that. They want to punish production overall anyways….

      • Angel Wannabe

        They can be selective Dan, when it comes to the internet, the point is, they don’t want to!!!

      • Carole Howell

        Dan Burke,
        About your dream house, I do not know why Marxists or anyone else would be against it. Except of course certain private energy industry folks, Just like those private industry people who want to privatize water companies and would fine you for collecting rain water in rain barrels. I am sure ALL THE REST OF US would all love to have home off the grid.

        Have read Mike Reynolds book ‘EARTHSHIP’?

      • Tim

        Ahh, you’re finally catching on! You should also look into http://www.fuellessusa.com. I am in the process of building these machines which produce “free” energy right now.

        • Vicki

          That “pyramid” is nothing more than a capacitor to collect the electrons. It stores them and they bleed off thru that resistor that he claimed was to protect the meter.

          Proof that it is a capacitor (Actually a tuned circuit because of the little coil under the pyramid) is in watching the meter. It goes up to peak but then starts drifting down as the meter requires some of the electrons to measure the voltage.

          For it to be truly free energy he would have to attach the output to a led (they are low current anyway) and have it run for a few hours.

          • dan az

            Viki
            wow I am impressed!

        • Craig

          No such thing as free energy. What you claim to be doing breaks every law of physics.

          • http://?? Joe H.

            Craig,
            It may not be 100% free, but with a little investment, I can heat and energize my house with both passive and active solar and not have any power bills after that investment! Now if they tried to force me to do that, I would be dead set against it, but if I decide to do it it’s a horse of a different color!! I’ve already talked to a friend that will dig the foundation and help me build the addition on my basement to store the cells to do it!! Haven’t made up my mind to do it yet, we’ll see!

          • Vicki

            The point of “free” energy is not how much it costs but where it comes from. Solar panels collect light and convert it to electricity. Little pyramids sitting on a table do not collect energy from somewhere and convert it to electricity. I do note that the little pyramid does collect kinetic energy and even stores it but there is no evidence that it converts that energy to electricity.

            Even the example simply collects and stores more of the electricity that was generated (converted) from the falling magnet. How much more is never discussed in the information provided.

      • dan az

        Dan Burke
        Even if you live in the city You can still make your own power back up.I feel that everyone should be prepaired for the worst case.A couple of deep cycle batteries and a good inverter with a couple pannels is all you need to get started.Then grow from there really cheap way to get started and before you know it you will have what you need and know how to use it.

  • Angel Wannabe

    About the only thing we’ll be left with for communication, is passing notes back and forth, and the old string & tin can method we used in grade school!__This regime is completely mad!

    • Christopher51

      It’s not completely mad… It’s completely evil!

      Laus Deo

      • slickporsche

        YES Evil is a much better description. Come November it will be too late. It is now or never! Are you ready? Give us liberty or give us death. November will change nothing, only more of the same. The great Republic America is doomed unless we all act NOW!

        • Vigilant

          Slick:

          You said, “Come November it will be too late. It is now or never! Are you ready? Give us liberty or give us death. November will change nothing, only more of the same. The great Republic America is doomed unless we all act NOW!”

          Just what are you advocating here? Overthrow of the government? There’s a constitutional and legal term for that: it’s called “treason.”

    • Carole Howell

      ANGEL WANTABE

      This Administration???? This Administration????? Did you read the Patriot Act Honey???

      • independant thinker

        This administration renewed and stregthened the “patriot act”.

      • Angel Wannabe

        CH, Thanks “honey” I did!

      • http://?? Joe H.

        Carole,
        yes Bush enacted the patriot act. Have you read it lately??? Have you noticed the changes made by Nobama??? Give him another four and you will long for the days when the patriot act were all you had to worry about!!! This is why we are trying to elect some people that believe in a smaller government! I don’t think anyone here wants to see the advent of a privatized fire department like the one in the news lately where they just stood and watched as a guys house burned to the ground for the lack of a 75.00 payment. Or a privatized police that is going to become a private “mayors army”, but we sure can’t keep paying and paying taxes to the government that make more than we tax payers make!! we need to find that area that is just shy of the first and far away from the second!!!

    • Vicki

      Smoke signals for the win. oh and don’t forget the use of mirrors and Morse code.

    • Karolyn

      You’re all afraid of Muslims and terrorism, and then when you hear of something the government may or may not do to keep us safer, you’re venting your anger at them. Which way do you want it? I know you prefer smaller government but safeguards need to be in place to insure security and safety. If they let things go and something big happens, you’ll be the first ones to say “Where was government? Why weren’t they looking out for us?”

      • Proud to be a Christian

        our present government couldn’t protect a flea!!!!!!! Look at Arizona and then when Arizona wans to protect its citizantry, the little boy takes his marbles to play at the UN.

      • DaveH

        “Those who would sacrifice freedom for security deserve neither”
        Ben Franklin

      • Vicki

        We are our protection. We are armed and dangerous. The government is to assist us. The situation in Arizona shows us that the state government is willing to do its job and the federal government isn’t. We support the government willing to do its job.

        We will most need our guns when they come for them (You chose the “they” :)

      • dan az

        Karolyn
        The point is that (they) the government is not doing the things they are supposed to like close the border.When (notice I didnt say if)they let off one of those dirty bombs in a city near you who exactly are you going to blame the conservatives?This is not a joke its a threat that will bring marshal law.

    • dan az

      Hey Angel
      A good Ham radio on solar works good even when the cell towers go down it can reach a long ways.

  • Jim H.

    Hey Feds,”can you hear me now?”

    • http://?? Joe H.

      test, test test, 1, 2, 3, 4. TEST TEST TEST. I don’t think anyones list…………………………………………………….

      • dan az

        Joe H
        More LIke …—…

    • NA in Vermont

      We can hear AND see you now. ☺

      • dan az

        NA
        they can even light your cigarette for you.

  • JC

    Does anyone recall the recent debacle in India and Kuwait(?) about the governments there wanting to disallow Blackberry’s because RIM did not want to share their encrypting technology? Those governments weren’t happy about it because they would have trouble eavesdropping on their citizens private communications. Did you notice that in the US there was never a complaint there? That would be because they can already eavesdrop on us, so no problem right?

    Only a government that fears its citizens needs to eavesdrop and wants to register guns…why do they fear us?

    Because they are criminals and petty tyrants? Nawwwww, couldn’t be…

    • Christopher51

      “When government fears the people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny.”
      Thomas Jefferson

  • Bob L

    Fill the feds intrusive engines with loads of vicious viruses. With a courtesy of lord Obama on the file.

    • Tim

      Now that’s a brilliant idea! We need to contract some of the people that make viruses over at those anti-virus companies (because let’s face it, without them creating more viruses, they’d be out of business!) and maybe they can get to work on that!

  • Robin from Arcadia, IN

    This would be a total invasion of privacy! We see America sliding down a slippery slope. Our freedoms are being taken away little by little, but as long as the current administration is in power, they are chipping away at them in rapid succession.

    REMEMBER IN NOVEMBER!

    • BigBadJohn

      Did you read this article? Caps are mine.

      “The last administration drove a stake through the heart of privacy with the passage of the completely unpatriotic USA PATRIOT Act. There were a few howls about the loss of liberty from some Democrats, BUT THE REPUBLICANS QUICKLY JUMPED ON BOARD.”

      With republicans obstructing everything this administration has proposed, what do you think the response from the republicans would be if democrats tried to repeal the patriot act?

      • Angel Wannabe

        Who are yoe trying to kid BBJ, the Repubs have no say what-so ever! Bambi’s a figure headed front man, the puppet masters are pulling Congress strings!___For God’s sake, if your gonna engage, say something worth while, other wise, take a hike!!

        • BigBadJohn

          Angel using your logic, the democrats had absolutely no say in government from 2000-2006 so the additional 5 trillion dollar national debt and two wars are 100% republican follies. Not to mention what this article is all about – the infringement of your freedoms due to the Patriot Act.

          • Angel Wannabe

            BIG DEAL!__Old news, Old hat my friend, Irritate and annoy_ via Sal Alinski__ tell your pal Sal, it’s ain’t working! Have a great day! :)

          • Robin from Arcadia, IN

            BBJ… Not Republican follies… Congress had a lot to do with the wars, sweetie.. And… President Bush had little control over Congress his last two years in his presidency. In hindsight, I really believe it was and is those who are NWO members that are pushing around those in power. President Bush is on that list, which saddens me. Many in Congress are bonafide members as well. When it is all said and done, we’ll have many from all parties on the list, I’m sure. People are just going to have to make it a point to study up on the candidates before voting. Those who are too lazy will need to have friends, neighbors, family spoon feed them the information… True Americans are not going to go down without a fight. We’ll get our country back one way or another!

            Remember in November!

          • Vigilant

            Robin:

            “People are just going to have to make it a point to study up on the candidates before voting.”

            No need to waste time doing that. AFL-CIO, SEIU, Teacher’s Unions and ACLU have already done all the detailed research for you. Just wait to see who they endorse, and then automatically vote for the other guy.

        • Kinetic1

          Come on, Angel, get on board here. The point of all this is that it doesn’t matter who’s in the White house or Congress. I wondered how long it was going to take for one of you to try and blame this all on “Obama’s quest for power!”

          Read the article again. Robin, do you really believe that this administration is any worse than the last? The clamp down began years ago and continues with the help of BOTH parties. All the sheep were afraid after 9/11 and the “Patriot Act” sailed through with only a little noise from some Dems. Some of us screamed at our representatives to stop it, but “Patriot 2″ had little trouble either. We hoped that this administration would end the madness, but the whole thing was re-upped. And now this. This is about more than one man’s quest for power. Get over you hatred for Obama and wake up to reality. You can vote for your precious Conservatives in Nov, and you can Obama out in 2012, but this train is not going to stop that easily.

          • Robin from Arcadia, IN

            Kinetic1… I am not disagreeing with you, but the NWO who is no doubt pulling the strings and has been for quite some time, is having a much easier go of eroding our freedoms with the Dems in power. Liberals are easier to convince that it is for their own good that freedoms are taken away. I think I am very much in the ‘real world’ and I know it won’t be easy to try and get our country back on track, but if I give up hope of that happening, that means I have thrown in the towel and will sit quietly and wait for America’s demise. I think our country has a better chance of survival with Conservatives at the helm than liberals. Barry and his buddies have this NWO on a fast track and it has to stop. He was actually the wake up call the Conservatives needed! And… we are fired up…

            Remember in November

          • BrotherPatriot

            Well said, Robin.

            I can honestly say, the only good thing this Administration really has done is to wake up the American people to the level that corruption has attained. I didn’t pay much attention to politics and did listen alot to what the main stream media said…both of those statements have flipped. I am now paying great attention to politics (including researching past history) and now I recognise that the MSM is a propoganda machine that filters for the far left.

            Pandora’s Box has been opened, the corruption is being revealed, a few brave hearts are challenging the criminals in the government (such as the stout Lt. Col. Terry Lakin) and many of us are in an outrage over what has been done, is being done and planned to be done to our rights.

            The “elite” have to answer to the same laws as the public with no special health insurance for them or self voted raises given…term limits need to apply to congress and soo very much more common sense applications need to become enforced. There is alot wrong with how things have & are done.

            Fiscal responsibility, smaller government & a free market…all sounds pretty good to me. Nov 2nd can’t get here fast enough.

            Yol Bolsun.

          • Angel Wannabe

            kinectic1, yes I do believe the Obama administrtion is worse than Bush’s!__He’s done a hell of a lot more damage in his 2 years, than Bush did in 8, now you get on board buddy!

          • slickporsche

            You must be joking if you think this administration is no worse than the last. Personally I think you a burned out left wing druggy whose entire life is a frikken mess. I do not remember the last administration ramming bills up our butts and not listening to the American people at all. Have you been shoving needles all the time this current fool has been in office? This is without a doubt the worst Administration I can remember, and that goes back to the fifties. YOu crack me up with your ignorance lefty!

          • JC

            Considering how vehemently I usually disagree with anything you say…
            I have to admit, I agree with this statement 100%.

          • JC

            PS Kinetic…I agree with the core of your message.
            I still despise Obama, but I was never crazy about the Bush cartel either.

          • Carole Howell

            K 1

            You so right, the Patriot Act came into being long before the last 2 yrs of the Bush Administration.

            It hardly matters what party is in power anymore it would seem.

            And for the people who are concerned over the debt under Obama read tthe following article……

            By refusing to estimate the costs for the war in Iraq, Bush makes his budget deficits look much smaller than they actually are.

            With two full years of experience waging war in Iraq, President George W. Bush should have some idea of how much it will cost to continue the fight next year.

            But when he submitted his 2006 budget to Congress in February, it didn’t contain one penny for combat in Iraq or Afghanistan. Sunny optimist that he is, Bush wasn’t operating on the assumption that the mission would actually be accomplished by then.

            Instead, Bush insisted it would be impossible to know how much would be needed, so instead of including anything in the regular budget, he plans to continue the tradition of coming to Congress for emergency supplemental appropriations when war funds get low.

            Coincidentally, that approach has the side effect of making the federal budget deficit appear smaller than it actually is. Far smaller, considering that spending in Iraq has averaged more than $5 billion a month.

            Shortly after he submitted his 2006 budget, Bush went to Congress to ask for $82 billion for the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan (most of which was for Iraq).

            So far, Bush has asked for, and received, about $350 billion for combat and reconstruction efforts in Iraq and Afghanistan. Even in a federal budget measured in the trillions of dollars, that’s a substantial amount to keep off the budget.

            Congress is showing increasing signs of impatience with such irresponsible bookkeeping. After Bush submitted his 2006 budget, U.S. Sen. Robert C. Byrd, D-W.V., persuaded his colleagues to pass a resolution calling for the war funding to be included in the regular budget.

            “The president will not tell the American people what the war in Iraq will cost,” Byrd said. “By understating the deficits, the American people are being led down a primrose path. That is dishonesty.”

            The U.S. House appears ready to include $45 billion to fund the wars in its regular spending bills for next year. The Senate is likely to do the same, even without a request from the Pentagon.

            If Bush won’t honestly budget for the cost of these wars, Congress is right to do it for him.

            The war in Iraq has a real cost, and a real impact on the federal deficit. Budgeting for that cost should not be an impossible task.

            In fact, it’s the least the nation should expect from the president who got us into this mess to begin with

          • dan az

            Carol
            You still take obumers side on any thing he does why is that?We dont care what any of the administrations prior have done they all where puppets and you need to get that straight.The problem is now we are on a head on collision with the NWO and this is their final move to complete their mission that has been going on for hundreds of years its now time to stop it before its to late if thats even possible.So quit sith the bush blame game its time to look out your window and see that it is raining the take over of the NWO.

      • independant thinker

        The democrats will only favor repeal of the “patriot act” if they become a serious minority after the upcoming election.

    • Bruce

      That won’t be enough, Robin!

      As indicated in the article, many Republicans are also on board with this. We need to tell our lawmakers that we will not stand for the complete submission to communism that would be the result of this monitoring.

      The Rockefellers are among the most insidiously evil people in the world! I can not believe that the morons in West VA keep reelcting him, well, except that the whole state is union goons. They are staunch closet supporters of eugenics and population control.

      • Angel Wannabe

        Bruce_ West Virginia prob doesn’t has a choice in Rockfellers re-elections?!__Just like the virtual unknown B,Obama who came outta no where and won the election!

        • s c

          Angel Wannabe, without trying to change the topic too much, remember that both Peanuts Carter and Bubba Clinton came from ‘nowhere.’ Herr Obummer is part of the same cheap magic show that puppet masters use when it’s convenient.
          BBJ, thanks for the Mussolini quote. Now, try and get America’s progressives to understand and appreciate what that Italian back-stabber meant when he said it. Progressives HATE corporations – until they help them get what they want. Then, it’s suddenly “different” and they don’t want to talk about it or defend it. The raw, festering HYPOCRISY of those sleazoids never ends.

          • Angel Wannabe

            sc, at’s what I’m sayin sc, I wonder how much say we really have?

      • Carole Howell

        * dolorous
        * travail

        * solicitous
        * lackadaisical
        communism
        - 4 dictionary results
        Operations in Las Vegas
        10/18-10/20: APICS Conference Global Supply Chain and Operations
        apics.org/education/conference
        com·mu·nism
           /ˈkɒmyəˌnɪzəm/ Show Spelled[kom-yuh-niz-uhm] Show IPA
        –noun
        1.
        a theory or system of social organization based on the holding of all property in common, actual ownership being ascribed to the community as a whole or to the state.
        2.
        ( often initial capital letter ) a system of social organization in which all economic and social activity is controlled by a totalitarian state dominated by a single and self-perpetuating political party.
        3.
        ( initial capital letter ) the principles and practices of the Communist party.
        4.
        communalism.
        OR
        1. advocacy of a classless society in which private ownership has been abolished and the means of production and subsistence belong to the community
        2. any social, economic, or political movement or doctrine aimed at achieving such a society
        3. ( usually capital ) Marxism Marxism-Leninism See also socialism a political movement based upon the writings of Marx that considers history in terms of class conflict and revolutionary struggle, resulting eventually in the victory of the proletariat and the establishment of a socialist order based on public ownership of the means of production
        4. ( usually capital ) a social order or system of government established by a ruling Communist Party, esp in the former Soviet Union
        5. chiefly ( US ) ( often capital ) any leftist political activity or thought, esp when considered to be subversive
        6. communal living; communalism
        OR CONSIDER THIS…..
        Socialism versus fascism, according to the Concise Encyclopedia of Economics, “Where socialism sought totalitarian control of a society’s economic processes through direct state operation of the means of production, fascism sought that control indirectly, through domination of nominally private owners. Where socialism nationalized property explicitly, fascism did so implicitly, by requiring owners to use their property in the “national interest”—that is, as the autocratic authority conceived it. (Nevertheless, a few industries were operated by the state.) Where socialism abolished all market relations outright, fascism left the appearance of market relations while planning all economic activities. Where socialism abolished money and prices, fascism controlled the monetary system and set all prices and wages politically. In doing all this, fascism denatured the marketplace.”

  • alpha-lemming

    Whatever became of the “Carnivor” e-mail access program?? You just know it’s being used out there somewhere.

  • Mick

    BigBadJohn says:
    October 8, 2010 at 10:18 am
    Did you read this article? Caps are mine.

    “The last administration drove a stake through the heart of privacy with the passage of the completely unpatriotic USA PATRIOT Act. There were a few howls about the loss of liberty from some Democrats, BUT THE REPUBLICANS QUICKLY JUMPED ON BOARD.”

    With republicans obstructing everything this administration has proposed, what do you think the response from the republicans would be if democrats tried to repeal the patriot act?
    **************************************
    *****************************************
    BigBadJohn…….if you think the Patriot act was bad just you wait until the Democrats get their mitts on it…
    Haven’t you figured out yet that the bigger menace to our liberties comes directly from the left,,
    What will it take for people like you to wake-up ?? Will we have to be jailed for speaking our mind for you people to see the light ?

    • Angel Wannabe

      Mick well said, the problem is the Liberal majority!__and it looks as if the Liberals are flyin in for the kill, if we can’t throw them a bone in November. And quite frankly, If the Repubs do take back control, it will be interesting to see, if ANY OF THEM were listening to the American people. If they gain control & continue on with the same policies, then we’ve had it!

      • Mick

        Angel Wannabe says:
        October 8, 2010 at 10:47 am
        Mick well said, the problem is the Liberal majority!__and it looks as if the Liberals are flyin in for the kill, if we can’t throw them a bone in November. And quite frankly, If the Repubs do take back control, it will be interesting to see, if ANY OF THEM were listening to the American people. If they gain control & continue on with the same policies, then we’ve had it!
        ***************************************************
        ***************************************************
        Angel..I’m with you…
        If the republicans do not go back to their conservative way and put a stop to the Liberal insanity , we’ve had it.
        They have to follow our constitution and keep the rights provided by it for the AMERICAN CITIZENS.

        • Kinetic1

          WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU PEOPLE! How many times do you have to hear that it was the Conservatives who pushed through Patriot Acts 1 and 2? Only LIBERALS in Congress fought to stop it, and now they seem to have given up. WHY would you think that Conservatives would now decide to stop this? Are you all so blinded by hatred that you can’t see anymore?

          • Angel Wannabe

            Your a comedian kinectic1, but I wouldn’t quite my day job if I were you! :)

          • s c

            K9, as Reagan would have said to you, “There you go again.” WHY do you REFUSE to distinguish between limp-wristed, horse’s ass ‘Republicans’ and conservatives? Either you don’t get it, or you don’t want to get it.
            YOU, mack, define what it means to be thick-headed and SLOW. I’d call you a progressive, but you’ve already mastered thick-headed and slow, so it would be redundant. Be glad Mark Twain isn’t around.

          • Kinetic1

            OK sc, name the Conservatives for me. Show me a list of “true Conservatives” who didn’t vote for the Patriot Act. Show me these Conservative Republicans who didn’t vote in lock step with Bush. A recent article became a discussion about how Clinton caused the housing bubble. One thing everyone failed to mention was that while housing prices started to rise at an unprecedented rate after Clinton began pushing the banks to make loans, prices REALLY spiked after Bush signed the “American Dream Down payment Act” to provide down payments and closing costs for low income borrowers who didn’t have the money to get into a house. It was a Republican bill put in place as housing prices were rising fast. A real red flag. So show me a list of the True Conservatives who voted against it.

            Both parties have members who lean Liberal and Conservative. Some lean one way socially and the other way fiscally. I have no doubt that there are some VERY Conservative Republicans (Libertarians really) who would shut down as many programs as they could, given the chance, but you know as well as I do that they are not likely to get that chance. And even if they did, they would be forcing through an agenda that most voters would be against, so would their actions be any more acceptable than what you accuse Obama of? Sure, you’d be happy with the changes, but what about the majority of Americans? What about these people who went to college on the GI bill, bought their home with a GI loan, sent their kids to college with Federal aid and are now living on Social Security, a GI pension and government health care? Sure, they scream about the government interfering with their lives, but just you try and take away these programs and see how much support you get.

          • Craig

            Yeah right, the dems were against the Patriot act. They currently control both houses and haven’t rescinded it. Seems the lying scum dems like the Patriot act. It helps them accomplish their agenda of destroying this country.

          • Kinetic1

            No Craig, I didn’t say that ALL Democrats hated the Patriot Act, but as this article pointed out, the only ones to raise a ruckus were Dems. I wish they had all been against it. Between catering to the fears of the American people and having to deal with the Blue Dogs, the party just caved for PA1 and didn’t bother to make too much noise when it was time to renew. So once they had the power to stop it, once Obama was in office and had the chance to Veto it, What Happened! Well, it looks like everyone is willing to sign on now. I don’t know if they actually want it, or if they’re all afraid of being labeled “weak on terrorism.” Whatever the case, I am very disappointed.

            As for their agenda, it would be interesting to see where we would be if the Republicans didn’t obstruct every single bill that comes down the pike, simply to score political points. The most recent example was the reauthorization of aid for small businesses. Republican’s helped write some of the bill, and even the ultra conservative U.S. Chamber of Commerce was on board with it, but that wasn’t enough to keep the Republicans from filibustering. Then there’s the HIRE Act. This bill helped thousands of businesses hire the unemployed and was popular with Republicans and Democrats alike. It is due to end soon, but the Republicans have blocked votes to renew it 3 times. Just the other day, one of the Republicans who blocked it criticized the Democrats for not renewing it! It’s just political theater to make the Dems look bad before the election, damn the trouble it makes for you and me. If you want to know who is out to keep the recovery down, look no further than the “right side of the isle.

          • http://?? Joe H.

            boundup1,
            come on, even you know that the only reason the progressive libbies raised any ruckus was because the RINOS came up with it first!! If it had been a dem sponsored bill, they would have been all for it!!! Let’s face it, if they were truly against it , they could have easily gotten rid of it after NObama got in!! Instead they strengthened it!!!

          • BigBadJohn

            Craig,

            “Yeah right, the dems were against the Patriot act. They currently control both houses and haven’t rescinded it.”

            It seems to me that anything the democrats try to rescind runs into a road block and is immediately labeled as communist/socialist/Muslim, etc.

            Prime example Bush’s tax cuts and trying to reestablish some regulations on the banks and wallstreet.

            If Obama and the democrats tried to rescind the Patriot Act, ALL conservatives would start screaming about them being soft on terrorism!

        • CJ

          Dems and Repubs are both liberal. The only difference is the aggressiveness of their agenda. We need to get true Constitutional Conservatives in power, but the the “system” blocks them from being elected, the problem will NOT be fixed. You can’t fix a problem when you only have bad parts to use.

          • Kinetic1

            Please enlighten me. What exactly is a Constitutional Conservative? Please tell me your not talking about someone like Joe Miller. I swear, that guy will tell us zippers are unconstitutional if the button makers offer him enough.

    • BigBadJohn

      Actually I think the biggest threat to your freedom comes from the people most likely to PROFIT from you losing privacy – CORPORATE INTERESTS.

      You are repeating the communist/ socialist rant so blindly, you ignore what transpired for the 12 years. Corporations were put in control of the government. The conservative SC ruled that corporations are people and their campaign funding can not be limited. So basically all elections from here on out are going to be based on who has the deepest pockets, and it ain’t you. Conservatives basically put the government on the auction block. Corporations do not want to yield any of this new power so they claim any attempt to regulate them is Socialism, and the sheeple follow along.

      “Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power.” — Benito Mussolini

      • Mick

        BigBadJohn………..

        You sound like someone who likes to bite the hand that feeds them, Union mentality doesn’t cut it
        Liberals do not want corporations to make profit but yet constantly bitch about corporations leaving the country,,So, what exactly is it you guys want..?.
        Let the Government take over all the corporations and see what will happen to our economy, you think it’s bad now, just you wait.
        The ignorant crooked bastards in charge we have now couldn’t fight their way out of a wet paper bag………

        • BigBadJohn

          Corporations should not be allowed to own the government – PERIOD!
          Is that so hard to understand?

          Corporations need to make a profit but not by using the US treasury as their own personal bank account. With all of the bailouts and lack of regulation imposed to make sure it does not happen again, CEO’s are using the treasury – your money – to pay their bonus’s. Do you think that is right, fair or in your best interest?

          • Mick

            BigBadJohn says:
            October 8, 2010 at 11:31 am
            Corporations should not be allowed to own the government – PERIOD!
            Is that so hard to understand?

            Corporations need to make a profit but not by using the US treasury as their own personal bank account. With all of the bailouts and lack of regulation imposed to make sure it does not happen again, CEO’s are using the treasury – your money – to pay their bonus’s. Do you think that is right, fair or in your best interest?
            ******************************************
            BigBadJohn…..Although I agree with you about the outrageous bonuses, it is up to the share holders to put their foot down not for the governemnt to take over
            As for the bailouts,hellooo….When have you seen so many bailouts beside the past 19 months ?
            I say let the failed business and corporations soak in their own juice and that alone will take care of big bonuses, others would get the message and modify their practices if they want to survive..

          • BigBadJohn

            I say let the failed business and corporations soak in their own juice and that alone will take care of big bonuses, others would get the message and modify their practices if they want to survive..
            *************************************************

            Mick Generally I agree with you, however, If all of the banks in the USA had failed, they would have taken down banks all over the world. They almost did anyway. Not to mention the impact it would have had on your savings account, property value, etc.

            The main reason was government deregulation.
            I believe in letting corporations do what they do best, but I also believe that there has to be some sensible regulations or they simply walk over everyone, to hell with the consequences, in the name of profit.

            But I also think that if a corporation survived because of a government bailout, then yes, the government should have some say as to how they spend that money and CEO bonus’s should NOT be paid with US treasury money. At least not until those federal funds are paid back.

          • JeffH

            I say do away with the government corruption that feeds from the corporate hand. Nothing can be done about the “lobbying” handouts as long as there are corrupt criminals running the country.
            Just for all of you that hate the big bad corporations, cutting off the hands that take the money will certainly stop corporations from “running” the country.

          • Angel Wannabe

            Yes JeffH, it’d be great to stop coporate corruption altogether, but they’re the job creators!_-Ya gotta pick your fights!__ Cut the corporations, ya cut the jobs!__ We can go back and live off the land, I can do whatever I gotta do, but they’ll stop us from doing that too!

          • Kinetic1

            Angel, I believe that Jeff was suggesting getting rid of the dirty politicians and the lobbyists, not the corporations, and I agree, in part.

            First off, let’s get rid of this ridiculous notion that corporations are people. Funny how this works; corporations get the same rights as you and I when it comes to running ads to support a candidate or bill, and they don’t even need to let us know they’re doing it. Yep, just like you and me, until they do something wrong. No one “jails” a corporation. Maybe, just maybe someone in the corporation will do time if it can be proved that they were the one who decided that it was cheaper to pay claims than to fix an SUV that rolls over and kills people, but don’t count on it. And what about taxes? Everyone screams about the poor businesses and their tax burden, but according to a GAO report, about a quarter of large corporations – ones that had more than $250 million in assets or $50 million in gross receipts – pay no income taxes! Over half pay less than someone earning less than a family earning less than $75,000 a year. In 2005, for instance, 3,565 large U.S. companies and 998 large foreign-owned companies operating here did not pay any income taxes. Shoot, back in 2001 – 2003 some of these little corporations like Prudential Financial (-46.2% tax), ITT Industries (-22.3 % tax) and Boeing (-18.8 % tax) got REBATES! You know, just like regular folks! It doesn’t work like that for my Mom’s little shop, so why should a multi million dollar corporation get away with it?

            Now, about those lobbyists. Seems many of them “help out” our congressmen, especially the new and inexperienced, by writing the bills for them. Hey, that makes sense! Who knows more about what the oil industry needs than BP! Let them craft the regulations for deep water drilling!

            OK, we took a look at taxes, lobbying and regulations, but we still need to talk about profitability. Well, the Chinese are manipulating their money and that makes it really hard to compete, so why are the Republicans stopping the Dems from passing new measures to help stop the Chinese and promote returning jobs to America. Instead, they want to continue to offer compensation and tax breaks to companies that want to move off shore! Brilliant! Come on folks, we all know that America is becoming a land of burger cooks and money handlers.

            We need to get back to providing quality goods and services here in America, and that starts with you and me. It cost me a bit more, but I’ll hold off on a purchase until I can buy American when possible. And some of those odd jobs like changing the oil or fixing the fence: let’s pay someone to do those jobs when we can. It may feel odd to spend money on something you can do yourself, but think about all those small businesses that are closing down. I know it’s tough, and God knows our bank account is not looking like it did 15 years ago, but we’re all in this together.

            It’s simple enough: Businesses are for making money and that’s as it should be, but they should be able to do so without riding on our backs. They use the roads to truck their goods, so they need to pay their fair share for maintaining our roads. The use water, electricity, police and fire protection and other services that we all depend on, so let’s make sure they, like us pay the costs of maintaing our infrastructure. We can’t just slap them on the hand when they pollute our water and air either. There needs to be a more serious consequence then just a fine that doesn’t even approach the CEOs take home pay. And when it comes to resources like minerals and trees, they should pay the American people a fair price for what they are taking. Alaska doesn’t seem to have an issue with that, but just try and get the oil and timber companies to pay a fair price in California! And finally, in recognition of the service they do by providing jobs and supporting our communities, we’ll be there for them if things turn bad. We’ll step in if it makes good business sense (like GM) but we expect changes in how you do business and a return on our investment before you start handing out the big bonuses.

        • CJ

          I don’t blame the corporation as much as the fool who believes political advertisements paid for by corporate money. Nobody has a gun to the head of the voter…. yet. If they are foolish enough to believe the candidate who runs the most ads is the best for the position, then we have a bigger core problem, and I believe we do. I look for the source of funding, and if I don’t like it, I vote the other way. Yes, a candidate will be accountable to their supporter, but the responsibility to not elect them still lies on the voter.

          • Kinetic1

            After the Citizens United case you may not be able to see who’s funding a candidate. Look at Art Robinson in Oregon. $150,000 in TV ads paid for by a group called “Concerned Taxpayers of America”. They may be concerned, and they may even be tax payers, but there’s no proof to either claim. They seem to be nothing more than a government form and a unmarked building in D.C. No information on where they get their money or why they chose Mr. Robinson. Just one more reason for campaign reform. End the ads and other BS and just give us televised debates. There’s nothing like a direct confrontation to bring out the truth.

      • Wayne

        There has been bad things that has happened on both sides of the isle, but I think the Democrats are the worst between the two evils. We, the People has allowed this to happen, so we can blame most of this on ourselves. However, the folks in Congress now will not listen to the folks. We have seen that with the health care bill passage. If the Democrats get back in as a majority you will see the “Cap & Trade” bill pass. When that bill passed the working men and women will see their energy bills skyrocket. NObama said that when, not if, the “Cap & Trade” bill passes it would drastically increase you energy. You folks on this forum who works for a living, please tell us, do you really want to see your energy bills double? If you say yes to this, then we will all know your nuts, and we Consrvatives, should stop all debate with you. Like I said above, I personally heard NObama himself say that if this bill passes, your energy bills would necessarily skyrocket. All the products you buy are made from electricity so that means that all the items you buy will cost more also so you can then add all of those cost and add them up to your energy bill.

        • BigBadJohn

          Wayne, I agree both side of the isle are corrupt. But I on the other hand believe it is the republicans that are worse.
          One thing seem certain when republicans gain power, they find any excuse for a war and dump tons of money into the military industrial complex – George Bush even created his own private army!

          Deregulation is almost guaranteed and the following debacle is always soon to follow – S&L crisis, Banking/real estate crisis, BP oil spill….

          The the national debt is also gaurant5eed to climb, Reagan/Bush TRIPLED the national debt and GWB DOUBLED that!

          I do not like what Obama and the democrats are doing but seems like they learned how to steal from the republicans.

    • alpha-lemming

      I’ve said it before…. guess I gotta say it again.

      Republicans (NOT conservatives but the progressive-lite variety ~’00-’06) are taking the country to h*ll on a freight train… Democrats are taking us there on an SST!!

  • Bobrm2

    Have read you column for several years now. I am not doubting the accuracy of this nor any other column you write; I would for my own purposes wish to verify everything I am interested in. Do you post documentation(s).

    • CJ

      How much free time do you have??? You’ve been reading for years and NOW want documentation. There comes a point when you need to know a source is reliable. I’m not telling you to believe this, or any other source, but just a general comment about how long it takes for a source to become creditable. At some point, you have to earn trust, or not.

  • James

    A recent article by Paul Craig Roberts reads: “On Sept. 24, reporter Jason Ditz wrote: ‘The FBI is confirming that this morning they began a number of raids against the homes of anti-war activists in Illinois, Minnesota, Michigan and North Carolina, claiming that they are ‘seeking evidence relating to activities concerning the material support of terrorism.’” Now we know what Homeland Secretary Janet Napolitano meant when she said on Sept. 10: “The old view, that, ‘if we fight the terrorists abroad, we won’t have to fight them here,’ is just that – the old view.” The new view, Napolitano said is “to counter violent extremism right here at home.”
    Apparently “violent extremism” is one of those undefined police state terms that will mean whatever the government wants it to mean. In this FBI foray into the homes of American citizens of conscience, it means anti-war activists, whose activities are equated with “the material support of terrorism,” just as conservatives equated Vietnam-era anti-war protesters with giving material support to communism.

  • http://MSN.com Elena

    Obama is an illegal president. He is not born in U.S. When the powerful people are going to impeach the illegal president? We need back our freedom.

    • slickporsche

      Then you will need to pick up a gun and fight as it is the only way that will make a difference. You belong in the “bubblegum crowd” if you think voting is going to change anything.

  • Robert

    I say that we either take back our country or become slaves to our dictators. if you can not see it coming than you are blind to evil and will suffer under the dictators. I will not live under a dictator. Give me liberty or give me death nothing else is revelent.

    • CJ

      They have just turned up the heat on the frogs… it’s time to jump out, or get cooked.

    • slickporsche

      Damn straight Robert! Is there enough of us to get er done? It needs to be soon, because if they get this bill through it will be nearly impossible to do anything. As it stands, the FBI can arrest us for this converstation we are now having. Is This Really America?? I must be having a nitemare!! Please wake me up!! I hate it.

      • Vigilant

        Slick:

        You have said: “Come November it will be too late. It is now or never! Are you ready? Give us liberty or give us death. November will change nothing, only more of the same. The great Republic America is doomed unless we all act NOW!”

        Then you said, “Then you will need to pick up a gun and fight as it is the only way that will make a difference. You belong in the “bubblegum crowd” if you think voting is going to change anything,” followed by:

        “Damn straight Robert! Is there enough of us to get er done? It needs to be soon, because if they get this bill through it will be nearly impossible to do anything. As it stands, the FBI can arrest us for this converstation [sic] we are now having. Is This Really America?? I must be having a nitemare!! Please wake me up!! I hate it.”

        You have more than crossed the line. Your incitement to violence and advocacy of the overthrow of the US Government are not just extremist rants, they are illegal. Your traitorous intent shows contempt for the fundamental principles of our Republic, and willful ignorance of the rule of law as formalized in the Constitution.

        “Loose cannon” is the most euphemistic term to describe a criminal such as yourself. You represent a violent criminal element that is no better than the repressive regimes such as in North Korea and Iran. No need to report you to the Feds. You have already condemned yourself by your public statements on this site.

        • Vigilant

          And let me add that I’m more than disappointed that I’ve been the only one to address this. Slick should be called out by every one of you who fancies himself/herself a true American, whether conservative or liberal.

          • http://?? Joe H.

            Vigilant,
            At one time or another, many of us have warned him about going too far and it continues therefore we let him go. I am considered a potential terrorist by Ms P-lousy as I am a VietNam vet. I’m not happy about that but I don’t condone the overthrow of our government. we need to find a peaceful way to protect our freedoms or all that will happen is martial law and UN troops! We will accomplish nothing like that!!! either we have the support of at least 3/4 of the population or any force is doomed! we will never have that! Anyway, if we did have it, the dumbest dam thing you could do is to announce it on a public forum!!

  • http://gmail i41

    ////The National Marxist Democrat Communist Party and their chocolate Muslim Monkey leader are doing just what they have wanted to do for decades. Things are really coming together for the marxist muslim, his muslim Pakastiany bros are showing their religions lying beleifs and going to other side, just like the muslims did in WW2. More government control over businesses and getting control over banking, and now trying to take over private property. It was done by Obama lite FDR. Read any of the democrat pledge books blueprints lately.

    • Lou

      If what you said is true, then I’m going on a permanent vacation and living off the fruits of your labor. Besides, I like chocolate, and monkeys are so cute. By the way, you can’t have a party of Democrats AND Communists. It’s contradictory.

      • Robin from Arcadia, IN

        Lou… You are wrong… They one in the same….

        REMEMBER IN NOVEMBER!

  • Bobby D

    1 Timothy 2:1-4 (King James Version w/ Apocrypha)
    1 I exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks, be made for all men; 2 For kings, and for all that are in authority; that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and honesty. 3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; 4 Who will have all men to be saved , and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

    • munday in Texas

      well bobby lets hope our esteemed prez has a damascus road experience soon!! in any case thats what I pray for.

  • munday in Texas

    Have any of you noticed how effectively the government is using the terrorist threats to their fullest advantage. They keep us unhinged through the media-take for instance Hurricane Rita that went into the Beaumont area, however they thought it might hit Houston. Now having lived in the Houston area most of my life and gone through many storms, I can say that I have never heard the media go as berserk with fear mongering as I did for that hurricane. I personally believe they wanted to see if a multimillion person area could evacuate in short notice if needed. If you check bill whites tv interviews after the storm(I believe it was him, but I remember some one said it) it was said “now we know if we can evacuate a large city” or some thing to that effect. That’s quite an experiment at the expense of serveral peoples lives, but I guess that was just acceptable collateral damage. They used the media to instill hysteria in the masses and it was a good job too! SHAMEFULL! It was such a good job people on the west side of houston-Katy, Texas were evacuating-thats like 150 miles inland.
    They will use this type of control over and over if we let them. What did Hillary said”never let a good disaster go to waste”
    keep watch, if they extend their right hand-keep an eye on the left, be informed and always hear the opposit position-there in is balance, then make up your own mind. Peace

    • Angel Wannabe

      Munday, Boy ain’t that the truth!!

  • Howard R Gray

    Merely having access to communications won’t allow the data to be read or the intel developed. 9/11 intel was there to read, only a few got it and then the information failed to rise to a level of action.

    The more communications the government attempts to read the more they will miss, after all it is the government here folks, they missed 9/11 completely!

    To date the powers that be refer to “chatter” when mentioning terror alterts, they still don’t have access to the terror noise that is out there so why expect much if they do pass this silly law.

    • http://www.LakeAtitlanRentals.com Duende

      They did act in the intel… they planted explosives to insure the new pearl harbor to motivate americans into a war stature as clearly stated in a Project for a New American Century. I wouldn’t have put it past these SOB’s to have planned this with the Bin Laden’s influence to make it happen to start with.

      • Craig

        You are an imbecile if you buy into that 9/11 inside job hogwash.

        • http://www.LakeAtitlanRentals.com Duende

          Are you aware of Architects and Engineers for 9-11 Truth? Google them. There’s well over a 1,000 professionals who say it’s impossible for the building to have come down the way they did without controlled demolition. Never mind building 7 which had not even been touched. I personally think you’re an imbecile if you don’t doubt the story that’s been manufactured and stuffed down our throats by an all to cooperative media.. including Fox… but as I said I think your an imbecile.no I take that back,,, I KNOW you’re one… but I normally try to be a little more Buddhist.. or is it Christian in my comments so I won’t really accuse you of it and keep my thoughts to myself.

    • Kinetic1

      Yes, it seems the more they spy on us the less they really get. According to a recent Washington post article, nearly 1 million American hold top secret clearance at thousands of agencies across the country. Since 9/11 our government has gone crazy setting up new spy systems. There is so much information coming in these days that some say it could take years to sort through it. Truth is, everyone was so frightened by 9/11 that we now may be less safe than we were. Of course we might also conclude that the administration saw an opportunity to expand their control over us under the guise of “Homeland Security.” I know I feel soooo much safer!

  • http://n/a Robo

    Ladies and Gentlemen: Come on! Knock off this Democrats vs Republicans bickering because they’re the SAME PARTY putting on a pageant to keep us all worked up, distracted and failing to pay attention to the real enemy of all mankind: the NWO/Bilderberg/One World Government Nazis. Their vehicle in the USA is the Council On Foreign Relations and they are comprised of “supposed” Reps and Dems working as a covert operation. Bush was horrible, Obama is evil. Both are members of and hand-picked by the CFR. Each is carrying out the agenda of the NWO/Bilderberg Nazis.Obama is simply the next step in the program and a rather ramped up one at that. How do we bring an end to this? TURN YOUR BACKS ON BOTH REPS AND DEMS AND FORM A THIRD PARTY! We should form a third political party behind Ron Paul based entirely on the U.S. Constitution! This will drive the NWO/CFR boys MAD as it will be a party they do NOT control with their covert ops. If you continue to have any faith in the current “two party paradigm”, as Alex Jones calls it, or in the “duopoly,” you are still playing into the hands of the NWO/CFR/Bilderberg Nazis.

    • Angel Wannabe

      Robo, it’s gonna take a hell-of-a-lot more than one or two voting cycles, to create a dependable third party, ya can’t do it over night!

      • Robin from Arcadia, IN

        Robo and Angel Wannabe… You are both right! We do need a third party and it takes time. We will have to deal the hand that is dealt us until we get better ‘cards’. I hate having to vote for the lesser of two evils, but America is awake and listening now, so things are changing on the political front. When we see Reid, Pelosi, Frank, Rangle and other self-serving politicians voted out, we will see that we are making headway and it will be an encouragement to keep up the good work!

        • Angel Wannabe

          Robin, my biggest concern is wether or not the Repubs’ll do what it takes to stop this madness. If they get in there, beginning in November, and it’s politics as usual with the Repubs acting like Liberals, to gain popularity & votes, then the American peoples vote and voice mean nothing.__Then were screwed!

          • Angel Wannabe

            Robin__ November will be the test!

          • http://?? Joe H.

            Angel,
            Then we vote the Ba$tards out and start again till they get the idea!!! Don’t represent us at your own political peril!!!

      • http://www.LakeAtitlanRentals.com Duende

        There’s a book called “A Reason to Vote” It was written by the V.P. Cnadidate for the Natural Law party. It outlines the blockades that both both the Dems and Repubs put into place in our system to make sure that there are no effective third parties… however they can’t calculate for well directed outrage. That’s why the Republican will try to hijack the Tea party.. just as the Democrats tried to hijack the Green Party on several occasions.

      • Kinetic1

        Again I say it’s time to call for automatic run offs. We may not agree on what kind of party the new party should be, but we all know we are reluctant to vote for someone we fear will loose if it means that the Democrat/Republican will get in. We vote for the lesser evil to “stay safe”, but if we could vote our conscience knowing that our vote would switch over to our #2 choice if our candidate lost, well that’s another story.

        • http://www.LakeAtitlanRentals.com Duende

          If there had been automatic run offs where you could vote 1st 2nd 3d Ross perot would have won the presidential elections. Exit polls showed if every one had voted for who they really liked and hadn’t been convinced that they would waste their vote voting for Perot, Perot would have won. THe “Waste your Vote” campaign was a massive PR effort by both Republicans and Democrats together to keep third party challenges down. It worked in CA for governor. EVRYONE I spoke to who had seen the debates liked Peter Camejo, the green party candidate, by far.. but who did they vote for? Someone else and we ended up getting a coporate tool (or is it fool) like Schwartzenager. The only time I haven’t voted my conscience was with Obama… against my better judgement I voted for him,,, know full well that he was a shill but just hoping that maybe those that controlled the american political system would actually allow someone in who would make at least some positive changes. I think he’s passed some good legislation (I said think… just for arguments sake)but god what a clone he is. Next time it’s Green Party all the way with Cynthia McKinney who said Bush and Cheney were criminals and should be tried that way.. I’m sure she would have scraped up some dirt on the Democrats as well but Bush was in the hot seat then.

    • http://www.LakeAtitlanRentals.com Duende

      Amen Robo.

  • NoConspiracy

    How many times do you need to be told… There is NO CONSPIRACY here. The Tea Party and the Republicans are the GOOD GUYS. and the Demo Rats are the BAD GUYs. (no irony intended.)

    • http://www.LakeAtitlanRentals.com Duende

      ha ha hah ha ha ha ha ha … Oh my gosh.. are you serious. The Tea party may have a chance if it really splits off (but it won’t). That’s like saying the Green Party is the same as the Democrats. Not to the Green Party people I know… they for the most part felt a vote for Obama was as bad a vote as for McCain. You think the Republicans are the good guys… you think they don;t care for anything that their moneyed masters don’t tell them to do.. except for Bush who was from a family of moneyed masters. You silly person you.

  • Marty

    All of you, think about this: A vote (November) is extraordinarily important. But it is a one-time act(annually).

    What really COUNTS, for both you and your society, is SUPPORT: in any way you are capable: Labor, Material, Money. Without this act of direct support, you’re just a tin-pot philosopher.

    • http://?? Joe H.

      Marty,
      My wife and I have spent good money supporting the candidates we want elected! I guarantee you if Duncan Hunter would run in 2012 I WILL support him as well!!!

  • http://n/a Robo

    To NO CONSPIRACY: If ignorance is bliss, you must be in perpetual orgasm. The TEA PARTY started out as the good guys and still manifest a lot of good but they were best when completely non-partisan and totally independent. There are now too many indications they have been commandeered by the Republicans and will continue to have their real message subverted. I still hold out hope for the TEA PARTY but certainly not the Republicans. If you truly feel there is “No Conspiracy,” that there is no NWO,no One World Global Elitist group, no Bilderberg, no Council of Rome, no Council on Foreign Relations, no Rothschild-Rockefeller international bankster syndicate, then your head is buried so far in the sand you couldn’t possibly see or smell the stink. You need to snap out of it and get a REAL education.

  • http://www.LakeAtitlanRentals.com Duende

    Early money is much more valuable than later money. If you’re going to give to a campaign do it sooner. At least that was what we took to heart when I worked with the Green Party.

    • http://www.LakeAtitlanRentals.com Duende

      this was supposed to be in addition to Marty’s post saying that with out direct action your nothing but a tin-pot philosopher, but the post ended up as a stand alone post.not a reply… Marty..amen bro.

  • Shenanigan

    All, I’ll probably be skewered for this, but here goes: Muslims believe the Great Satan America will be destroyed from within. I definitely see this happening with Obama and his Czars, his ridiculous bills and his huge debt he is pushing on us as a nation. I can see we are slowly…or not so slowly crumbling under Obama’s ‘gentle’ guidance and nuturing.

    • http://www.LakeAtitlanRentals.com Duende

      I half agree with you… the missing part is that the Republicans are selling off this country to the highest bidder as much as the Dems are. Both parties are slaves to the moneyed elite. Period. Any other perspective is purely delusional. Are there any “good” politicians in either party.. their good and quiet or they get kiled in the media or killed by some “lone gunman” or something.. plane crashes anyone?

      • Shenanigan

        I agree with you. I wish we had a few more Sarah Palins. I’m sure she has a few skeletons in the closet somewhere, but I like her style and I like her guts. Everybody can be bought; it’s whether what’s being offered is the right thing and enough of whatever is being offered.

        Sarah has done a lot of good while in Alaska. I certainly can’t say the same for my governor!!!!

  • http://www.LakeAtitlanRentals.com Duende

    As for the original article that Bob posted. Thanks Bob. People really need to wake up to the fact that both parties are complicit in this. It’s amazing how they work together.. one setting up the ball and the other dunking it… good cop bad cop. And the majority of the population still buys into this illusion. Keep up the good work.

    • http://none Mike

      Wow ok I read the article and went down all the comments and now have something to say as well. I think untill we do get a a viable 3rd party we now have to all do our homework. If you really study a canidates background you can tell where he or she will stand.This nov. is going to be important in more ways than one. I think if we all just take a long look at whats happeing in NY. you will see a man who is fighting just such said corruption there and winning without the huge money behind him. This election is going to be about nation wide support of true conservitive cannidates not only have I followed the elections here in Tn. But also in other states . Its time we put our money minds and voices behind the right person for the job no matter what clothes he wears.Nwo Is still what we give it. If we give it power by electing the empty suit I.E Obamma then that group will continue to gain in power. If we get behind the teleprompter and pretty words and expose the man or woman beneth then we can make a diffrence with our votes. If we all hide our heads in the sand and say one is just as bad as the other Then They Have Allready Won.I am with Angel on this one Remember in November but not only in November but the other 11 months as well. Wake up be informed and support the right people for the job and this can be turned aroud.Hide surrender and mope and we get what we deserve. Yours Truly Mike

  • Raggs

    Oh let’s just kill anyone that hates the obama agenda.

    The paranoid black scum needs to find his way back to kenya!

    • http://?? Joe H.

      Raggs, I don’t believe that was you!!

      • Angel Wannabe

        JoeH, It maybe someone posing as Raggs?!__I thought the dame thing!

  • http://.com i41

    Does this sound like communist countries?

  • Jerry

    Is there no end to what Chairman Obama and his gang of thugs will do in their dismantling of the Constitution of the United States? When will we the people wake up to realize these Maoist who are now in charge will not be content until they become generalissimo’s in the likeness of Kim Jong Un. If America is to survive as a constitutional republic, we as a nation must in November fire all politicians who march to Obama’s tune and vote in elected officials who will uphold the Constitution, ensure our rights as citizens of the greatest country man has ever known are protected at all cost, return manufacturing and industrial based jobs from foreign countries, level the playing field germane to trade with China, install fiscal responsibility in the Federal Government so America is not beholding to the Peoples Republic of China (PRC) or any other country, enforce immigration laws that will seek and find as well as block the entry of those illegal immigrants who pose a serious threat to the security, health and well being of the American people and increase the size of our navy that must include new construction combatants required to keep pace with the blue water threats of the PRC, Russia and Iran who are engaged in massive new construction, modernization and expansion of their navies.

    • Raggs

      OH PLEASE…

      The ole brainwash tatic?

      Yeah lets just hope a vote will make all of the difference in the world… You sit there and tell people to wake up but your only solution is to vote and hope that makes things better.

      I suppose your next solution to tyranny will be to vote?

      Vote uh vote for what?… How do you expect people to vote when we have a bag full of dirty diapers to vote for?

      You people are completely nut’s, I cannot understand WHY you allow this to happen to your country while you sit joyfully on your sofa watching oprah whimpy!

      You are soft, shallow and worthless!.. Go figure why the tailiban controls this US… You are a people of spineless idiots that will not stand up to a bully, Oh I guess your afraid big boy obama will spank you… SCREW that!

      Don’t any of you see this is exactly what they want?
      You are a coward, an imbisle…

      You mean absolutely nothing to king obama… and he knows it.

      So how do you feel being a complete jerk for this administration?

      • http://none Mike

        The fact is Raggs that you can still yell viva the reveloution is a sign that all isnt lost yet we still have people in our government that are fighting for our rights as citizens to be able to speak our minds. I see a reveloution comming as well but what happens when we start takeing up our arms and attacking and we find out wow thats what Russia and china were waiting on Cane we defeat all their armies combined as well as the people in our own government that would gleefully call for their aid . I think the first step is to try it at the booth and if that dosent work then it might be time for other mesures. We have this wonderful tool to work with thats called the internet where our crys might well be heard by thoes in washington who will stand in the gap for us. But I cannot help but think that thoes outside this country are just waiting for the first signs of dissention in this country to act. As far as reading the bible goes yes I do read it. And it says that we as christians are not to loose faith and to stand as one against any anti-christe. Ahd notice I say any for I belive it wont be just one but many in a group that will come. So yes Viva the Reveloution but lets try to fight it first on our beliefs and with our minds and voices first. Mike

        • Raggs

          Christ told us to not let a thief in our house.
          But if he took from you than forgive him his trespass.

          I feel as if letting the obama government or any other government for that matter intrude into my house is a law of God to control, but at the same time we have to defend our house.

          Defend our home is a national issue, obama makes no effort in doing so. To him in his belief as a progressive ( commie ) there is nothing that you have belongs to you as a person, therefore everything you have is for the use of anyone that needs it.

          That is the material aspect of this however what I see goes much much deeper than that.

          In their twisted thinking, you as a person have no rights and you are not entitled by the government to any obligation of your freedom.

          In other words if your freedom is an inconvenance to this administration your are S.O.L.

          I’m going top put this straight to all… I simply do not care how obama try’s to kill me, it is a matter of him even attempting the act.

          So that is the case and I will fight back.

      • Jerry

        Raggs, you should disqualify yourself from any comments germane to subject article. You appear to be: uneducated in the constitutional republic that is America and the rules our officials gain and relinquish political power, incoherent, unconscious, legally insane and should probably be incarcerated in an institution for the legally insane. Furthermore, I do not, nor have I ever, nor will I ever watch Oprah. More importantly, I personally take offense to you calling me a coward, I served my country with honor for twenty-five years, in the United States Navy, several of those in combat and every one of those twenty-five years preparing for combat. An imbecile, Raggs? I know not as I possess a B.S.M.E, M.ENG and an MBA.

        Sir, I am a gentleman; however, you are a despicable human being whom I would enjoy demonstrating what a coward, an imbecile and a jerk is capable of doing to your wretched hide.

        • Raggs

          I hope you wake up soon.

          Constitutional republic?… oh I guess thats what you call voting?
          That may have worked 50 years ago.

          I’m glad to see you angry at me, at least I gave you something to think about.

          The coward thing was not pointed at you in general it was an over-lay of the type of people that have a blind faith in voting for dirty diapers.
          In other words and I will spell it out…
          Most people will choose the lesser of the two evils given only that choice… what most people do not see is that this is a planned action based on the string pullers..
          This leads me to think most people are clueless!

          Voting in itself is an action by ones belief that they will assume a direction in political agenda that usually fits their needs.. I use needs loosely, or for the betterment of a group.

          This puts me in the minds of the unions in which are currently destroying this nations purse… This nation has no purse, the benifitted ones are ruining the economy, stacking the votes, and bankrupting the business owners.

          Now if you still hate me good for you….

        • Raggs

          Jerry .. are you a smart idiot?… Just wondering?

        • http://none Mike

          Thank you for your service Jerry its not said often enough in this day and age. Mike

          • Vigilant

            Jerry:

            Thank you for the lucid, factual, straightforward and patriotic comments. Your adversaries on this site are indeed delusional and have no understanding of the Constitutional Republic we live in and celebrate.

            When these adversaries attempt to incite violence or harm against the US Government, they are worse than criminals; they are traitors.

    • http://none Mike

      Amen Jerry All the privacy in the world matters not if we dont survive the comming tides of true communist countries such as China and Russia(and yes I still belive Russia is communist despite the relable)And their puppets Iran Pakistan N.Korea and their like. We the people have to fight the battles on all fronts if we are to continue to be a becon of freedom. It starts at the voteing booth supporting canidates that are true conservitives as I said before no matter what clothes they weare. So yes as Angel says Remember in November. But dont go to sleep after that and forget what we sent these folks to do. The only way to turn this tide is to get educated and be vigilant about our government. Yours Truly Mike

      • Raggs

        I hate to be disrespectfull but may you understand the truth.

        VOTING is a pipe dream…

        This administration OWN’s ALL FEDERAL judges!

        There is nothing you can do to “change” that.

        This sorry excuse for someone other than my president is unstopable.

        I suggest your read the bible and maybe just maybe you will see who he is.

  • Raggs

    Ok so…

    Where does this stop?

    Are you glad to see the government intrude on your life ( via “it’s best for you” )…

    When do you pay a state tax for your road improvenemt and the government steps in and forces you to pay for the milage that you drive back and forth to work so you are able to pay for the use of a political gain?

    When do you stop eating french fries because the government told you so?

    When does your health insurance plan go up by 200% because you have to pay for the deadbeat down the sreet?

    When do the public schools teach marxist agendas without your knowledge?

    When the hell are you going to stop being a panty waist ( education not required ) and stand on your two feet?

    99.9% of the people had much rather sit back and bitch about how bad things are rather than getting off of their duff.
    I have watched these post, I have read these post. same song same dance. I watch the news… FOX only.

    For the life of me I cannot understand why you are not angry.

    Ok so lets say we vote… and then what?
    Oh I have it …. lets give it 2 more years of obama so he can muck things up.. My heart is sick with obama the whore.

  • Raggs

    Do you want to know why I am so pissed about this?
    If you need to ask you are a clueless obamabot.

    The unions have bankrupted this country ( via they are entitled ).
    The deadbeats have bankrupted this country ( via they are entitled ).
    The muslims have bankrupted this country ( via they are entitled ).
    The illegals have bankrupted this country ( via they are entitled ).

    I’m a working man and I’m not entitled.
    I say damm all of the above! not because I’m not entitled but I know the meaning of a free ride when I see it…

    The first one to knock at my door with an implant device intended for me will be a dead bastard!.. I use a comp for work, it’s my business not the governments I would suggest they heed.

    • JC

      Amen That!

    • Karolyn

      Raggs – Everyone is entitled to live as good a life as they can. You are one of these people who believes that people are worthless if they don’t work like you do. And feel free to come back at me with the usual BS about me being a “taker” because I benefit from government programs. I am just as proud an American as you and feel very privileged to live here and be able to take advantage of what is available to me as an American Citizen. I’ve worked all of my life and do feel that I should be able to collect on my investment.

      • JC

        We don’t “invest” in Government…we hire it.

        • Karolyn

          I never “invested” in government; I invested in my life.

      • http://?? Joe H.

        Karolyn,
        I’m not an unusually mean spirited person, but if you can afford a computer then it depends what programs you are collecting. If it is welfare, then I feel no compassion for you unless you are truly unable to work. If you are collecting social security, then I don’t think those comments were directed at you. That is where the difference in “programs” lie!! Whether or not it is your money!!!

    • JC

      If they don’t have a work ethic, a sense of responsibility, no ambition, and just want to sit around on welfare complaining about their self induced lot in life…then absolutely, they are completely useless and taking up valuable space and resources.
      This does not include those who are disabled.

  • THIRD PARTY

    THE UNCONSTITUTIONAL PATRIOT ACT,FAIL.IT’S NOT THE FED’S JOB TO BE CONCERNED ABOUT MYTHICAL VILLAINS TO CREATE MORE FALSE FLAGS.BOTH PARTY’S ARE USELESS SHILLS,THAT CAUSES ALL OUR PROBLEMS,THEN OUT OF THE BLUE,HAVE THE ANSWERS,LAUGHABLE,AND DESPICABLE.DHS REPORTS ARE FRAUDULENT INFORMATION,RETURNING VETS,PLEASE.OUR GOVERNMENT IS THE ROOT OF THE EVIL,AND FINALLY AFTER DECADES THEY ARE FOUND OUT TO BE A TERRORIST GROUP IN THE TRUE SENSE.THANKS TO THE FREEDOM OF INFORMATION ACT,TOO MANY FALSE FLAG ATTACKS OVER THE LAST SIXTY YEARS,WHAT MORON WOULD HAVE FAITH IN THAT.

  • THIRD PARTY

    WHY do sheeple defend the left,or the right,it’s the two party paradigm that destroyed this country feverishly since 1913.The start of the unconstitutional federal reserve,the beginning of the propaganda media,that was formed with the rockefellers,the j.p. Morgan family,the rothchilds,and several oil barons.

    • JC

      I’ve been trying to tell people that for a decade now.

    • coal miner

      Thirs Party;

      “Democracy… while it lasts is more bloody than either [aristocracy or monarchy]. Remember, democracy never lasts long. It soon wastes, exhausts, and murders itself. There is never a democracy that did not commit suicide.”…John Adams

      • Vigilant

        And that, for one reason of many, was why the Founders created a republic, NOT a democracy.

        • http://?? Joe H.

          Vigilant,
          Don’t waste your breath!! That distinction has been made to him before but fact doesn’t penetrate concrete!!

  • Karolyn

    You can’t really say how factual any of this is. I looked on salon.com and it’s nothing but an online “news” site. Just because some writer said something doesn’t mean it’s really going to happen. Salon’s Greenwald reported that Obama will soon propose these invasions of privacy. Uh, did he just pull it out of the air or did a “little birdy” tell him? Mr. Livingston, are you just using other people’s fiction in your own?

    • JC

      Kind of like the Obama propoganda machine telling us that socialist healthcare is what the people want? Is that the kind of comparison your making?

      BTW, the invasion of privacy agenda is widely known and widely reported…everywhere but the MSM.

      And just for fun sinse the two cross paths…you think surveillance is an invasion of privacy?
      Just look what kenyan Health care is going to do..

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HcBaSP31Be8

      • Karolyn

        A pretty frightening video, especially with the great special efffects music. This is a “translation”, which can be biased according to who is reading the bill where the translator picks and chooses what to highlight. I do not make decisions on matters based on Youtube videos (like the doctored one of Obama saying he is a Muslim). Also, I agreed with some of the points. I didn’t write things down, so I can’t really voice them right now.

        For myself, I really don’t care if healthcare is rationed. Too many people are hypochondriacs anyway and waste doctors’ time. I go to the doctor twice a year for bloodwork because I have Hepatitis C. I refused chemo because of the side effects (besides the fact that nothing can really cure a viral illness) and am perfectly healthy. I do not get sick; and even if I do, I take care of it myself. Should I become severely ill, let the chips fall where they may. There’s nothing wrong with death anyway. It’s a part of life, and I’m not afraid of it. Death is just a seond chapter (or maybe a third, fourth, fifth….) I am of the mind that in not anticipating sickness and taking care of myself, there is nothing to worry about. I haven’t had “health” insurance since the 80s and have never needed it.

        • Vigilant

          You do not care if health care is rationed? Then you are a believer in eugenics.

          No government committee has a right to make life and death decisions for ANYONE else, except under very rare and unique circumstances. Without a respect for life, this whole nation will ultimately crumble into dust. The very BASIS of our society, and government’s limited mission, is to protect and nurture life, liberty and property.

          • Vigilant

            And health care rationing doesn’t just mean you cut dosages, it means you cut PEOPLE out of access to care. It means that if you don’t meet the criteria with regard to age, “useful” life expectancy, or whatever the government deems as “productive,” you will be denied life-prolonging medications because they are too expensive.

            Rationing is treating people as if they are commodoties with expiration dates. Only an athiest “secular humanist” treats human beings in that manner.

          • Karolyn

            I KNEW I would get your goats!! As I said, how can we trust this video’s veracity in the first place? I simply do not believe most of it. Just like all the publicity regarding the “death squads” that would decide if people should live or die. It’s nothing but informing people of what their options are. If I were told I could be kept alive for 5 more years, but I would spend most of my time in bed or sick, I certainly would appreciate the info. I sure don’t want to be kept alive artificially when I should be dead. Do you? Why stay alive when there’s no quality of life? It’s nothing but a bunch of BS. The video is also a year old.

          • Vigilant

            Karolyn,

            I have not viewed the video to which you referred, since I have a screwed-up sound card. My response was based on what I have seen and heard.

            When I see Obama’s appointee to oversee Medicare and Medicaid, Dr. Berwick, admit that universal health care is indeed redistribution of wealth, when I’m told that Rahm Emmanuel’s brother has devised nice easy formulae to determine a person’s “suitability” for treatment (based on age and expected life span), etc., I’m simply confirmed in my opinion that the left in this country has always treated people as numbers and not human beings.

          • Vigilant

            “I sure don’t want to be kept alive artificially when I should be dead. Do you? Why stay alive when there’s no quality of life? It’s nothing but a bunch of BS.”

            Karolyn, your feelings and my feelings regarding health decisions are completely irrelevant to any discussion of health care. Nor do you or I, any other person, committee, state or federal government entity have any right whatsoever to make those decisions for other people.

            Life, liberty and property are the most basic of natural rights. The statists and secular humanists would prefer to make all decisions for you in those areas. I’m not, nor will I ever be, ready to accept that.

        • Raggs

          kora-aid your a freaken pig?

          your obama wil take care of you, so you deserve his care.

          I have to say you are a complete idiot, a fool and a liar.
          The health care as your bastard calls it, is like unto asking if the gun is loaded.

          Complete ignorance and a waste of human life.

          You need no pitty, you need something far worse.

          • Karolyn

            I’m a pig? Look in the mirror Raggs!

        • Dan Burke

          You accept rationing because you already perceive that it will have no impact on your life?

          I believe you have the right to decide that you do not want “excessive” care in your treatment.

          What I object to is applying this to everyone. That is what rationing does. Someone else already pointed out that this reduces people to commodities. And while I do agree with this, here’s a point I want to make.

          You want ration health care? Inject upon everyone a one view on the thinking for receiving treatment. What if someone decides to take away your right to refuse chemo-therapy? Would that be okay? You might say, “that will never happen.” Are you really sure? If they can deny treatment, then they can assign particular treatments. It wasn’t long ago that some parents were taken to task because they were denying their son treatment claiming it was a religious conflict. While there is much about the story that I questioned, there was one thing I learned from that event. They CAN take away your right to choose your treatment or lack of treatment. So you might say that this will never happen, but if you accept rationing then you MUST accept that they can take away your right to refuse a particular treatment. If they determine that giving you chemo is cheaper, then you WILL undergo chemo in a system that rations health care. And remember, you will NOT be the person deciding what is the cheapest way to take care of your health. There will be some panel, committee, or some other method to decide what is best for your health care….

  • Raggs

    I hate to be bitter, but…
    It is people like Karo-aid that screws everything up for the rest of us.
    They seem to think that all they have to do is watch oprah whimpy all day and everything else will fall from the obama sky ( sence he is their god )…

    Oh I have a corn on my foot someone please take care of me.
    People like you are the reason insurance is so high…
    If you have a corn on your foot cut it off!
    Don’t depend on me to fix your problem! but if you do ask me to fix it you will not like what i will do.

    Why the hell are you entitled to a free health care?
    Free, yeah sure it is if your an illegal or a deadbeat .
    I don’t care if you are sick, people die everyday.

    It is NOT up to your screwed up obama to decide… So “F” him!

    Someday I will be old and weak, I don’t want your children to pay for that. ( if you have any ).
    Free health care is a hoax, obama is a fool! and you live in a dream world.

    • Karolyn

      Did anybody say anything about free? Did I not say that I don’t even go to the doctor? And even when I do go, I am an informed patient. People need to be educated rather than doctored.

      • Vicki

        “People need to be educated rather than doctored.”

        Now if we could only apply that to politics. Then our “representatives” would truly be focused on representing us instead of ruling us.

    • Karolyn

      Oops, missed that….You hate to be bitter, Raggs? That’s all you ever post is bitterness, anger and hatred. At this rate those feelings are gonna kill you. Hate kills in more ways than one. It’ll eat you up inside.

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