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City Council Votes Down Pledge, Allows Recitation Only 4 Times Per Year

July 4, 2011 by  

City Council Votes Down Pledge, Allows Recitation Only 4 Times Per Year

On June 27, the City Council of Eugene, Ore., caused controversy when it voted down a proposal to say the Pledge of Allegiance before its meetings. Instead, the Council approved a measure to allow the Pledge to be recited four times a year, around the major patriotic holidays: Independence Day, Veterans Day, Memorial Day and Flag Day.

Councilman Mike Clark told Fox News that “all he wanted to do was unite the council and show his more conservative constituents that in this city where diversity is celebrated, their more traditional values also are important.”

The proposal was reportedly shot down over the Pledge’s use of the words “under God.” One Councilwoman who voted against the proposal, Betty Taylor, “compared saying the Pledge of Allegiance to reading from ‘The Communist Manifesto,’” according to the article.

Eugene Mayor Kitty Piercy told news outlet the Pledge is “divisive.” “If there’s one thing the flag stands for,” Piercy said, “it’s that people don’t have to be compelled to say the Pledge of Allegiance or anything else.”

Councilman George Brown, who voted against the compromise, told Fox News the Pledge of Allegiance had no place at City Hall: “People can say it in their front yard or backyard. It really doesn’t help move the city business forward. It does not unite us.”

Despite the fact that Monday’s Council meeting took place close to Independence Day, the Council did not say the Pledge, explaining to Fox News that “it was just too soon” to say it, considering the controversy.

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  • Kinetic1

    Ms. Bonebright,
    Did you look to anyone other than FOX for information on this story?
    “Betty Taylor, “compared saying the Pledge of Allegiance to reading from ‘The Communist Manifesto,’” according to the article.”
    Yea, “…according to the article.” And the FOX News article was skewed. Taken out of context as it was, this comment sounds like the height of anti-American sentiment, but in fact it is a stand for freedom of speech. Consider the effect the new law would have on those not reciting the pledge:
    “At last week’s council meeting, (Mayor) Piercy said, a resident “demanded that every patriotic person stand up and take the pledge. And the implication was clear that not saying it was supposed to mean one did not honor our country and our troops.”
    The original law as proposed made it “optional” for each member, as well as the audience, but how do you think the more conservative voters would react to those who chose not to join in? For most patriotic FOX viewers, not reciting the pledge is as bad as reciting the Communist manifesto and creating an atmosphere where people are afraid not to recite the pledge is no better.

    Next up, the assertion that;
    “Despite the fact that Monday’s Council meeting took place close to Independence Day, the Council did not say the Pledge, explaining to Fox News that “it was just too soon” to say it, considering the controversy.”
    That may be true, but it ignores the fact that, based on their regular calender the council will be meeting on July 11th and will mark that as the first meeting at which they will recite the pledge.
    “In a revised compromise, the council agreed to recite the pledge at four meetings a year closest to the patriotic holidays of Memorial Day, Veterans Day, Flag Day and the Fourth of July. The council also agreed that excerpts from the U.S. Constitution or Declaration of Independence could be read aloud at the council meeting nearest the Fourth of July holiday.” (http://www.registerguard.com/web/newslocalnews/26464896-41/council-pledge-eugene-funds-george.html.csp)

    July 11th is one week after the 4th. Their last meeting was held on June 27th, one week before the 4th. The wording of your article implies, purposely or not that the counsel is already showing their true colors by choosing not to say the pledge as agreed to in their newly adopted rules, when in fact they had 2 equally appropriate choices and they chose the latter.

    Let’s not forget that this council did not have a tradition of reciting the pledge before each meeting;
    “We do not have a history of saying the pledge on our City Council,” (Mayor) Piercy said. “But we have all given our oath of office and, in doing so, our allegiance to this nation, state and city.”
    and they’re not alone in this. The story here is that, after some debate they decided to INCLUDE the pledge 4 or 5 times a year, which should be seen as an improvement to those of you who believe that we should recite it as often as possible. That’s how Council Person Mike Clark sees it;
    “I think it’s a good first step toward us being willing to value those in our community who would like to celebrate more traditional things.”
    Instead the story is spun as if they turned their backs on a universal nation wide city counsel tradition and reduced reciting of the pledge to appease the communists in their midst. FOX News, we distort, you decide.

    • libertytrain

      Are you saying this is like something Jon Stewart would spin?

      • eddie47d

        Thanks Kinetic, Bonebright like so many don’t tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth.They cowardly hide behind cut and paste comments to create controversy where there is none or very little. Some will bite into her comments like a giant taco only to crumble with that first bite.

        • (WIA) Wild Indian in Action

          (offensive words removed)
          Now for the challenge, write and recite the Pledge of Allegiance for all readers on this site. GOD Bless America !

          • eddie47d

            WIA, The article did not tell the whole story and you accept falsehoods as facts.That would make you the traitor.You know less now than you did when you were born. Now go and play on the highway and catch you lunch.

          • Jana

            Well eddie,
            Why don’t you PLEASE tell us what the whole story is. I really would like to know.
            Did George Brown say that saying the Pledge of Allegiance was NOT something that unified?
            Did they vote to NOT say the Pledge of Allegiance at every meeting?
            Please, I would like to know the whole or true story.

          • Kinetic1

            Jana,
            Yes, Mr. Brown did say that and yes they did vote not to approve Mr. Clark’s proposal. The point is, they did not end an existing policy of reciting the pledge, they debated a proposal and came to a compromise that has them reciting the pledge for appropriate occasions. This article, based on a clearly biased and inflammatory piece done by FOX News seeks to put this situation in the worst light possible. There are town, city and county meetings held every day where the pledge is not recited. That doesn’t mean that these people are not patriotic, only that it is not a necessary or integral part of deciding which street to repave first or whether there should be a stop sign and Main and Shaw.

            So, is the pledge unifying? Assuming you, Jana are a God-fearing Christian Conservative how do you fell about the fact that the pledge was written by a a Christian socialist? Or that his cousin was the socialist utopian novelist Edward Bellamy? Maybe you don’t see any point of controversy, but the Supreme Court of 1940 did.
            “In 1940 the Supreme Court, in Minersville School District v. Gobitis, ruled that students in public schools, including the respondents in that case, Jehovah’s Witnesses who considered the flag salute to be idolatry, could be compelled to swear the Pledge. A rash of mob violence and intimidation against Jehovah’s Witnesses followed the ruling. In 1943 the Supreme Court reversed its decision, ruling in West Virginia State Board of Education v. Barnette that public school students are not required to say the Pledge, concluding that “compulsory unification of opinion” violates the First Amendment.[10] In a later opinion, the Court held that students are also not required to stand for the Pledge.” (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pledge_of_Allegiance)
            So it’s not just Mr. Brown or the Eugene City Council. It’s not that they’re a bunch a Communists and Atheists, though you’d never know that from this article.

        • Kinetic1

          WIA,
          I’m Kenyan! Wow, wait until I tell my parents of Western European and Scotch-Irish decent. Spewing out rude and obscene suggestions does little to make your point, unless your point is that you are ignorant and uncouth. As for the pledge, I covered all of this in Scouts to earn my badges. I see no reason to kowtow to you or prove that I am an American.

          • Dan az

            welcome Flashman
            I see you haven’t left Oregon yet!

          • Kinetic1

            Dan az,
            Huh?

      • Kinetic1

        Libertytrain,
        Stewart considers himself a comedian and political satirist, Ms. Bonebright presents herself as a journalist who “believes the best way to combat bias in the press is to publish the truth.” If you don’t understand the difference then perhaps you should go back to school.

        • libertytrain

          thank goodness we have you to educate us. You really have no sense of humor though – how pathetic.

          • Kinetic1

            Libertytrain,
            That was supposed to be funny?

          • libertytrain

            I don’t know if you recall but YOU were the one who turned this into a big deal, I was trying to make light of it. It was after all much ado about absolutely nothing. But you ran with it.

        • Kinetic1

          Libertytrain,
          First, my original point was not so much a reaction to the story, but to the way it was written. I object to a reporter claiming to be devoted to printing the truth and then omitting information and injecting clear bias.

          As to your attempt to “make light of it”, I don’t think it’s funny when a journalist reports with less integrity than a political satirist. There are a lot of things I find funny in this world, but purposefully misleading people is not one of them.

          • libertytrain

            You’re right, I should not have taken this lightly as you were intent on it being a big deal. I’ll try to remember that in the future when you make light of comments that others are taking seriously as you so often do. But hey, you have different rules for yourself. We’ve all noticed that.

          • Kinetic1

            Libertytrain,
            How do you keep from getting dizzy to the point of nausea?

          • Lesa Brookd

            If you have a problem with the media being bias in their reporting, then I am sure you also have a problem with ABC, CBS and NBC since they are most certainly just as bias they just lean in the total opposite direction of FOX. And as for politicians, they are all bias in what they tell the media.

          • libertytrain

            kinetic –Ah so you can chastise but no one else can. Man life is tough for you. Poor baby. Now I’ll spin away for a bit till you need me again.

          • Jana

            Kincetic,
            You didn’t have a reaction to the story? ? ? ?
            Now who is trying to make “light” of his reaction?
            For some odd reason, the truth offends you many times.

    • JJM

      So now it is not allowed to be patriotic? Let those who don’t want to pledge stay silent. The voters should know and soon choose.

      • Kinetic1

        JJM,
        There, FOX has achieved their goal! No one said that you can’t be patriotic. No one said that it is illegal to recite the pledge, only that they did not want to make the pledge a compulsory part of every meeting. And why not? Well you said it yourself;
        “The voters should know and soon choose.”
        That’s the way of the new Right. Use fear and intimidation to force people to be “Patriotic”. The very suggestion violates all this nation stands for.

    • Sutekh

      Kinetic1

      My personal history inextricably links lies with the city of Eugene, Oregaon, although the linkage is not the fault of the City Fathers.

      With that, I’ll go on record as stating that efforts to promote the insincere recitation of the Pledge are objectionable to me. So many government officials are so insincere where the foundations of our liberty are concerned that it isn’t funny.

      The Bible’s great, but when Elmer Gantry reads from it, it’ll make you puke. Some of our more left-wing officials who can’t tell the difference between the American Revolution and the French Revolution can recite the pledge and make you upchuck, too.

      Sutekh

  • charlesr41

    Where are these people from? Sounds like California to me! They should be deported back to Canada!

    • Abraham Zion

      What the defenders of Eugene, Oregon “diversity” fail to note is that the required uniform to attend a Ciy Council meeting is a tin foil hat

      • http://PersonalLibertyDigest Liberty

        Having lived in Eugene, Oregon for over 2 years, I can assure you the majority of the population is filled with 1960′s liberal ideology; not all, but, most are in my opinion neither patriotic nor God fearing. I avoid transfering any of my hard earned money into that community.

  • Bob

    Anyone who thinks that one can be a Christian and a lieberal at the same time should read this article. Lieberals are anti-Christian and those who claim to be Christians while embracing lieberalism are apostates.

    • karolyn

      In YOUR limited view, Bob!

      • http://naver sook young

        Sorry Karolyn, but many of the views liberals have are against what it says in the Bible. You can’t say that you are a Christian, but live in rebellion to the Bible. Since also this notion of progressivism is actually liberalism and atheism combined and this is why it hurts this country. They despize anything Christian, like our founding. Thank you.

        Sook Young
        Wife of the Samurai

        • Bob

          Thank you for your post, but Karolyn has proven time and time to be immune to the truth. And she is not a Christian, she is a belly-button contemplator who “looks inside” for truth. She will be looking a long time.

          • Robert Smith

            As opposed to those who look to Rush, Fox, and other hateful bigots for their version of “truth.”

            BTW, wasn’t it a Jew named Jesus who preached acceptance and charity?

            Rob

          • Karolyn

            Ah, Bob, it would be so nice if you would “look inside” and find some peace instead of hate and animosity. What a miserable way to be.

        • Vagabond

          sook young you must disregard karolyn. I do. what eugene oregon needs to do is kick out the city council and get a new one just as we need to clean out the whiehouse,

          • wandamurline

            That was my suggestion….sounds like they need to recycle their city council…that is what you do when you disagree with their limitations of freedom.

          • RoyfromKs

            The Vagabond is correct! Eugene, Oregon is a pretty place and these council members are trying to change that! Get them the Hell out of office before it’s too late! The same with the Whitehouse….get them out ASAP! The Pledge of Allegiance should be recited as often as you see fit and anyone objecting is considered un-American! These objectors are not hard to find….they are coming out of the woodwork every day and we need to prosecute them just as fast! These are really a small group of people that don’t know what or why they are doing this, but they obviously missed this in their schooling about America! I think this starts clear back in grade school….we have omited teaching certain history’s of America or some try to re-write our history to meet their needs! We need to take a look at our school’s teachings….clear into college!

          • eddie47d

            It wouldn’t bother me to say The Pledge of Allegiance but you all seem to be standing on sand in wanting to force your views on another’s local government. Seems like Conservatives want blind Allegiances to their causes. Which reminds us of other forms of government in the past and in the present that don’t value freedom.

          • (WIA) Wild Indian in Action

            Vagabond, I’ll address eddie69d by saying to him, that while we may be standing on sand, he is always stand on a pile of crap/defecation and praising Lucifer Obama.

          • eddie47d

            To the foul mouthed leper of looneyville. How was your luncheon with i41 the other day WIA? Did you do self serve out of garbage can again?

          • Jana

            eddie,
            We want to FORCE OR VIEWS on anothers local governemtn???
            Isn’t this still the United States of America? Has Eugene, Oregon seceded?
            This is a dangerous trend for our country.

          • Jay

            eddie: but you all seem to be standing on sand in wanting to force your views on another’s local
            government.

            eddie, your statement is misleading. It is the majority of the City Council of Eugene who are forcing “their views” on the people of Eugene! The pledge of allegiance was recited long before the present-day Council! You seem to be confused as to which came first, Patriotism or anti-American socialism! I’m surprised a bright boy like you missed that! You sure lack attention for detail, perhaps that is the reason for your personal attacks?

          • Kinetic1

            Jay,
            What are you talking about? The pledge has been around for a long time, but it has not been a part of Eugene City Council meetings. Heavens knows how long it’s been since they recited the pledge as a part of each meeting, if they ever did, but it didn’t just disappear when the current council took office. Why do all of you act as if they stopped the voters from reciting the pledge? One council member who represents one ward felt that some of the people in his ward would like this. We don’t even know how many of them even come to City Council meetings. And what about the rest of the citizens of Eugene? Does the majority care about this or is it just another “TEA Party” group action? How about we let the citizens of Eugene decide how they want things done and concentrate on our own home towns for a change?

          • Jay

            Kinatic:The pledge has been around for a long time, but it has not been a part of Eugene City Council meetings. Heavens knows how long it’s been since they recited the pledge as a part of each meeting, if they ever did, but it didn’t just disappear when the current council took office.

            If this is so, then why is the council raising the issue?

          • eddie47d

            Jay; Many issues are raised at city council meeting. Some ideas are adopted and some aren’t even pertinent. Someone apparently brought this issue up and it was locally discussed. I have heard several Libertarians and Conservatives say they are against mandating laws or having the government telling people what they can or can’t do. This is one of those issues. Now what city do you live in so we can delight in interfering in your local issues?

          • eddie47d

            Jay; Was there a reason you ignored WIA’s personal attack or did you lack attention to that detail?

          • eddie47d

            Jana; If the city council of Eugene is conducting business appropriately and getting the job done for it’s constituents yet you still want to interfere, then you are indeed wanting to control(force) what they do.

          • Jay

            eddie:If the city council of Eugene is conducting business appropriately and getting the job done for it’s constituents yet you still want to interfere, then you are indeed wanting to control(force) what they do.

            The city council’s job is to maintain the infrastructure, roads bridges, sewage, schools and so forth.., of the city of Eugene. It is not their business to meddle with their constituent’s patriotic or un-patriotic sentiments. It is NOT in their job description to interfere or suppress freedom of speech, and to dictate what can or cannot be said. As for the assumption, according to the majority of the council, that reciting the pledge of allegiance will cause divisiveness, it is just that, an assumption, for which they provided no proof. Btw, no one here is wanting, as you stated, to control (force) what they do. We are merely stating our opinion on the issue, as you and have! Seems to me, you are the one who is wanting to control (force) and regulate the opinion(s) of people on this site.

          • Kinetic1

            Jay, Jay, Jay, there you go off on some strange path of your own again. The council is not stopping the citizens from saying the pledge, one of the councilmen was trying to make it a rule for the council. And I agree, their job is to run the city, not to argue over whether or not should add the pledge to their bi-monthly meetings.

            I responded to you before, but I guess it is still being checked out. this time I will skip the links and just share my favorite conversation as reported by the Oregon Register Guard;
            “Eugene City Councilor George Poling was in Washington visiting relatives on Friday when he answered a cell phone call from a Los Angeles resident upset with his position on the Pledge of Allegiance.

            “‘How dare you not say the pledge,’ ” Poling recalled the woman saying.

            But once Poling explained that the council has historically not said the pledge at all, and how it has decided to say it four times a year, the woman calmed down.

            “ ‘Well, that isn’t the way Fox News reported it,’ ” she told Poling.”

          • Jana

            Jay,
            You are so right. eddie and Kinectic have NO IDEA how long the Pledge of Allegiance to our country has been recited in Eugene, Ore.

            They are just so pleased that they can stand up for their lieberal causes on this site. They and their kind are the ones bringing division in our country. They ought to be so proud.

            They CLAIM to show patriotism, but the proof is in the pudding and they have very sour and smelly pudding!

          • libertytrain

            As kinetic pointed out I’m not too bright, however, why would they feel the need to take a vote on something they “never recited” except perhaps to make a point? My lack of intelligence makes me fail to understand why they made it into an issue in the first place – if not to cause some sort of attention grabbing, statement making event -

          • Kinetic1

            Jana,
            Please Jana, educate us. Tell us when was the last year that the Eugene City Council regularly recited the pledge before each meeting. The Mayor of Eugene stated that they had not “historically” done so, and while this is not an accurate measure of time it does suggest that it has been many, many years.

            Why are you so gung-ho to see a City Council that does not represent you forced to recite the pledge before every meeting? How does this benefit you in the least? Personally I’m not concerned whether they choose to do so or not. What concerns me is the rising tide of small, vocal Christian Conservative groups trying to force the rest of us to fit this country into a mold based on an America that they remember, but never really existed. The council took NOTHING away from these constituents but gave them a portion of what they asked for. Not surprisingly, the people complaining about this outcome are not even constituents. They, like you have no place in this argument but they want it ALL because they are “true Patriots”!

            And how about the reasoning behind this Motion? Mr. Clark says that his constituents “tolerate” a summer festival that they don’t approve of. Well, it’s not likely to be the Summer Market since most people of all political persuasions seem to like open air markets, and I can’t imagine that they would get their panties in a knot over the Bach Festival. The Summer movies are family friendly as are most of the open air concerts. Maybe they object to the noise? Is it the rodeo or the 4th of July fireworks? No, wait, it must be Hempstead, a one day event hosted by “a non-profit organization dedicated to creating public events and concerts that are pro-hemp in their focus.” Of course many of our founding fathers grew hemp for paper, rope and other worthwhile uses, but some folks just can’t get past the drug aspect. I’m no fan of pot smoking for pleasure, or drinking for that matter, but you can’t get past the fact that hemp is an amazing fiber. So is that it? Are they suggesting that, since they “put up” with a one day festival that they do not have to attend the city council should be required to open every meeting with the pledge? Oh sure, I can see the connection now.

          • Kinetic1

            Libertytrain,
            The council didn’t try to make this into a big story. A motion was presented, debated and voted on. The majority did not see the need to change policy and begin each meeting with the pledge. Some of their reasoning may have been controversial, but that is often the case in public debate. In the end they compromised as it is their job to try and represent all of their constituents.

            So. to answer your question “why would they feel the need to take a vote on something they “never recited”..” because one member of the council made a motion to start. It’s procedure. Was the councilman trying to make a point? Sure, he was either representing his Ward as is his job or trying to make political points. Either way, this story is only a big deal because a FOX News group came in, distorted the story and caused a sudo-patriotic hailstorm.

          • libertytrain

            it was a big deal because someone was trying to make a point and hoped it would get picked up because now even you have made much ado about nothing into something controversial, you got sucked in as well. Poor thing.

          • eddie47d

            Apparently if they don’t recite the Pledge you will make it clear that they are Un-American and are unworthy of conducting city business. That is a subtle force.

          • Kinetic1

            Libertytrain, always looking for the worst in people.

          • Kinetic1

            Jana,
            I just heard back from the City of Eugene. Their representative said;
            “To my knowledge the pledge has never been a tradition of Eugene City Council.”
            As I said, when someone uses the term “historically” it usually means a long, long time.

          • libertytrain

            yes kinetic you are always looking for the worst in people, why is that?

          • Jana

            Kinectic,

            At least you bothered to check some facts for a change.

            The Columbian reports that Mayor Kitty Piercy (a lead sponsor of Code Pink’s latest Anti-War Resolution) and others did not agree with this idea, suggesting that reciting the pledge might be “divisive.”

            It’s only divisive if you don’t honor our great country. Obviously she doesn’t, neither your good mayor, or you. At least you are representing yourself that you don’t.

            That area is extremely liberal, and I really expected nothing else but this reaction from them, or you kinectic.
            We have certainly been entertained watching you dance and hop around from your liberal string that has been attached to you.

            You told Libertytrain,
            First, my original point was not so much a reaction to the story, but to the way it was written. I object to a reporter claiming to be devoted to printing the truth and then omitting information and injecting clear bias.

            You got so bent out of shape over this that you sound like you are talking in circles now. Your REACTION was comedic! ACTUALLY, the more I learn about this the more I see Marcy Bonebright told it exactly like it is. Seems like the truth is something very hard for you to swallow.

            Remember kinectic, YOU are the one who made a big deal out of this. You and your liberal ways acting like anyone who wants to honor our country and its heritage have something wrong with them.

            I have seen others while the Pledge of Allegiance was being recited, just stand there looking around. Probably one of those people would be you.

            You ACT like you are ashamed of your country. You and Michelle Obama.

      • Boss Man

        Karolyn,
        Are you for real, I mean really, a liberal being Christian, yea right. Maybe in your frame of mind they are, but reality has proven otherwise.

        • Bob

          Karolyn may not be for real, no one could be that dumb. If lieberals are Christians, then that means that Christ stood for murder (abortion), perversion (gay marriage), parasitism (welfare), selfishness (welfare, taxation of others for personal gain), sexual immorality (gay marriage, lieberal culture), greed (union thugs), theft (taxation), and dishonesty (lieberalism in general). Obviously, Jesus did not stand for these things, therefore those who do cannot be Christians.

          • karolyn

            If you ever tried expanding your knowledge by reading materials outside your comfort zone, you might view things a little differently. But, alas, I know that you and your friends won’t, and I really don’t care. It would be a much better world if we all could try and understand the “other guy” and see things with a different perspective.

          • eddie47d

            Bob’s a slave to his twisted mind or very prejudice in loving himself. With his way of thinking there must not be any Christian Conservatives either. Bob seems to stand for nationalistic warfare or militarism,slavery(the South was very Conservative),poverty(his arrogance and loathing of those who have less), Overt selfishness and greed(I’ve got mine and to heck with the rest of the “slobs” out there),discrimination (open and volatile), corporate tax breaks,corporates who steal from America(banksters,derivatives,hedge funds and other market manipulations).Jesus wouldn’t be too proud of your sinister deeds either so your vises won’t get you to Heaven any more than Liberals. But nice try!

          • Jay

            eddie, you have articulated a great many assumptions and unsubstantiated accusations concerning Bob, might you be “projecting” perhaps?

          • eddie47d

            Yes Sir; But no more than Bob.

          • Jana

            hmmm,
            I remember a post that eddie made just the other day. It read:

            eddie47d says:

            July 2, 2011 at 5:28 pm

            I know for a fact God doesn’t like a hateful,spiteful name calling manipulative self righteous indoctrinated hypocrites like you. Your viciousness overwhelms you and you will fall into the hands of the devil like so many others who are people of fear.

            Maybe you ought to go look in the mirror eddie and repeat that back to yourself.

          • Jay

            Jana, eddie flip flops so much he eventually looses track. Such is the predicament of the two-faced socialist/marxists!

          • eddie47d

            There is no flip flopping for I didn’t make the original statement ,Bob did. Some of you need to “attack” the original commenter instead of going after the reply…or are you covering for your own?

          • Jana

            eddie,
            Actually, in your statement you did NOT give Bob credit for saying that, and you sounded like you meant it. If you said it, I figured you meant it. I am just saying you should follow your own advice.

        • (WIA) Wild Indian in Action

          Boss Man, karolyn and eddie69d are real examples of what comes from way too much cross breeding.

          • eddie47d

            I see that WIA is drinking another kerosene cocktail today along with his usual scorpion lunch!

        • Robert Smith

          Not true, Boss Man.

          There are plenty of “liberal” christians.

          You can start by looking at the work of Bishop Spong who was doing same sex commitments long long ago.

          Rob

      • http://(pending) Mikhael

        GW’s Farewell Speech admonished the duplicit to remember: One canot rightly consider themself a Christian who is not a patriot; nor think onesself a patriot who is not a Christian! As every compromise leads to further compromise, whether in ethics, moral standards, or hygiene, and no amount of ambergris(perfume)can compensate, we should at every turn beware those who cause divisions, dissonance, or disturbances among us!{It will noted by the honest student that whjile Christianity tends to unite based on commonality, religiosity tends to devide based on adherances to the dogmatic, to the unthinking exclusion of all else!}

        • Robert Smith

          Oh come on Michael: ” One canot rightly consider themself a Christian who is not a patriot; nor think onesself a patriot who is not a Christian! ”

          George Bush was the worst president we’ve had. The way to tell he was lying was to see his lips move.

          Further, as president he shouldn’t have tried to establish one religion over another. That is NOT something our government should be doing. That Constitution and all that…

          Oh, remember that “Render unto Cesar…” part of Jesus teachings? How’s ’bout we get the jet commuters and the rest of those money grubbers taxed like the rest of America and take some of the load off the middle class?

          To not contribute to our great nation is both unchristian and unpatriotic.

          Rob

        • Kinetic1

          Mikhael,
          I assume that GW stands for George Washington and not George W. as in Bush? If this is the case then I must ask where you found such a quote. Washington’s farewell address was well published and therefore well documented. Nowhere in this document do I find your quote. The closest I can find is paragraph 25 which reads;
          “Of all the dispositions and habits, which lead to political prosperity, Religion and Morality are indispensable supports. In vain would that man claim the tribute of Patriotism, who should labor to subvert these great pillars of human happiness, these firmest props of the duties of Men and Citizens.”

          Note that it says nothing about the need to be Christian to be a patriot. In fact I don’t recall seeing the word Christian anywhere in the speech. So what is this? Where did it come from?

    • Robert Smith

      From Bob: “Anyone who thinks that one can be a Christian and a lieberal at the same time should read this article.”

      So much for charity.

      Remember Bob, you are representing YOUR version of a very brutal god. Not a god I nor many others have chosen.

      Rob

  • Melissab

    OMG this is the United States of America.These idiots have no personal pride in themselves or our great Nation. They need to leave and move to others countrys where their citizens have the same shame and leave us to live in a country with the pride we feel when we honor our great country with our hands over our hearts and our pledge is spoken aloud.

    Such a small group of non american , big mouths push to destroy our rights. So now I ask you, what are you going to do to push back for our rights! …..

    • cat lover

      For one thing, I’d not move to Eugene, Oregon. They have communists running their city, obviously. Hope the residents wake up and vote the commies out! Then change that rule about the Pledge.

      • wandamurline

        Yeah, McCarthy did not do his job of removing the communists from America in the 50-60′s very well…he left too may communists in California, and the ones that are not homosexual have propogated and spread across the West. Shame on you McCarthy.

    • jag

      I agree with you Melissab. It really hurts to be watching the flag at games especially with the National Anthum being sung and see so many people not showing respect for the flag. I want to knock some sense into these people. Have they no pride. This is one thing I noticed about Obama before he was elected. He didnt’ salute the flag. How could we have a President of our Great country who has no respect for out flag. Now we know he has no respect for our country and wants to destroy everything we stand for. So now we need to do everything we can to save our freedoms and constitution. Throw the liberals out.

      • Robert Smith

        Hmmmm, commandments come to mind…

        I won’t tell your god you are worshiping a flag instead of him, jag.

        Rob

        • Jana

          Robert,
          You don’t even profess to talk to God at all.

    • Robert Smith

      Melissab says: “leave us to live in a country with the pride we feel when we honor our great country with our hands over our hearts and our pledge is spoken aloud.’

      How unchristian of you. Worshiping a flag. Isn’t that idolatry?

      That is a term for the worship of an idol. You know, a physical object such as a cult image, or a flag. Looks to me like you are on the verge, if not over the edge, of worship of the American flag. What would lyour god think of such a thing? You know… giving undue honour and regard to created forms other than God.

      Sure does look unchristian to me.

      Rob

      • Jana

        Robert S,
        The flag is a symbol of our great counrty, that God has mightily blessed.
        No, just because we PROUDLY recite the Pledge of Allegiance to the flag, does not mean we worship it. We worship God.
        Hopefully Robert one day you will see the truth for yourself, but meanwhile I respect your right not to do so, as those of us who do worship God expect that you will respect our rights to do so. :)

  • mrsgengiskhan

    busy bodies, anti American, anti capitalism, anti every thing good about America, are the types of people who run for and win elections in our country. most of the rest of us have jobs and families to take care of, not make more laws to restrict our freedoms.

    • Bob

      True, it is unfortunate, but it seems like those who are unproductive are the ones who have the most time and energy to devote to politics. That does not bode well for America.

    • Robert Smith

      Posted: “most of the rest of us have jobs and families to take care of, not make more laws to restrict our freedoms.”

      Why don’t you start with removing the laws opposing pot legalization. For adults it’s an insult from the nannies who want to micro-manage the lives of others.

      Rob

  • sudsy

    I think they need to go to other counties and see what happens if they ignore that pledge!
    The next thing will be “under God”
    What happened to good people that are proud to be American?

    • Robert Smith

      sudsy, “under god” was added in 1954. We got along with lots of American history before that, including coming out of WWII as a super power. IOW, America was a great nation when the right added that phrase.

      I, however, find it very sad. Try adding the phrase “under god” with other religious implications. Try substituting ‘under Buddha’ or ‘under Allah,’ or ‘under Krishna,’ and repeat the Pledge.

      The founding fathers didn’t want to establish any religion in America. This “under god” thing slaps their collective faces with the religion of the extreme reich.

      Rob

      • Jay

        robert:The founding fathers didn’t want to establish any religion in America. This “under god” thing slaps their collective faces with the religion of the extreme reich.

        Nonsense! robert, you are a delusional and paranoid atheist! There are many atheist who have no problem with reciting the pledge of allegiance, and doing so, in no way persuades or coerces them to practice religion. Your paranoid, that’s all. Hey robert, there’s a god under every rock, quick run, save yourself. LOL!!!

        • Robert Smith

          From Jay: “robert, you are a delusional and paranoid atheist!”

          Quit lying Jay. I have a religion that I practice. It simply isn’t following that there brutal christian god you claim so slaveshly to. Oh, and I’m not delusional either. I see the world and the selfish for what they are. Paranoid??? If they are really out to get you has I have been so often threatened on these forums is it paranoid?

          “There are many atheist who have no problem with reciting the pledge of allegiance,”

          I know a few atheists. They are proud, patriotic Americans who simply omit that damed “under god” part that was added in 1954.

          Jay claims: “Hey robert, there’s a god under every rock, quick run, save yourself.”

          No need. All those gods and goddesses aren’t all as nasty as that there brutal beast you claim is the be all and end all. Remember, if one god is real there can easily be more.

          Rob

  • Walter

    All federal funds should be cut off to any governmental establishment (federal, state, city) that feels they do not need to honor our pledge, our national anthem, or have a prayer.
    Unless the American people take back our country which the political left has been dismantling we will become something other than the United States of America.

    • Robert Smith

      From Walter: “or have a prayer”

      What part of NO state religion don’t you understand?

      The government of the United States has no state religion. It’s in the Constitution. You should actually read it some day.

      Rob

      • Jay

        robert, you seem a bit paranoid. How is praying establishing a religion? Praying is just that, praying!

        • Robert Smith

          Jay asks: “How is praying establishing a religion?”

          If it is done at a government function where it is the business of the people then it is the government establishing that religion. How’s ’bout folks pray to Buda, Sheeva, Isis, Rah, or any one of the many other religions? Wouldn’t you be among the first to claim that because it isn’t YOUR brutal christian god that it is improper?

          Jay says: “Praying is just that, praying!”

          Yup. Why do you need to do it in public? I see that as preying as you are trying to influence others outside your religion to follow your god.

          If your god is so powerful why are bull horns needed to prey at women’s clinics? Why does the the Westfield Baptist jerks need bull horns for ther “god hates fags” garbage? Can’t they simply whisper such in their god’s house where it’s quiet and get a connection to their god that way.

          Nope, it’s all a pubic spectical where they are trying to attract like bigots and hateful folks who just need an organization to validate their own bigotry and hate.

          Seems kida sick and sad to me, building an organization on fear and hate, but that’s what much of christinaity looks like these days.

          Rob

          • Jay

            robert: Nope, it’s all a pubic spectical where they are trying to attract like bigots and hateful folks who just need an organization to validate their own bigotry and hate.

            In light of your statement above, what then are we to make of the “Gay Pride Parade”? Are the homosexuals trying to attract like-minded folks who just need an organization to validate their own proclivity to a depraved lifestyle?

        • Kinetic1

          Jay,
          I have to side with Robert here (no surprise I’m sure.) Walter was suggesting that the Federal Government require prayer in order to receive funds. If the Federal Government requires prayer then they are requiring the practice of religion.

          • Jay

            No surprise here Kinetic1 as you are clearly a team player, good for you! It makes no difference to you how over the top and provocative robert’s statements may be, you and the rest of the commie brigade will never respond to his insane statements. Fine, we understand, and note, that you work as a team and you stick together, no matter what, very commendable. But, it is easy to spot a commie particularly when they take on the issue of religion.

            You stated:If the Federal Government requires prayer then they are requiring the practice of religion.

            By that statement you reveal your ignorance, as praying is not the practice of one’s religion, but rather, praying is the act of engaging in conversation with a person. On the other hand, religion, binds people up in rules and regulations or in ritualistic patterns of devotion. God hates religion! Don’t be confused or offended, your not the first to identify God or praying with religion.

            Christianity, was never meant to be a religion. Christianity is the dynamic spiritual life of the risen Lord Jesus indwelling the spirit of man so as to create functional behavior to the glory of God.

            It is very difficult if not impossible, for anyone outside the faith orbit to understand this Kinetic, but at the very least, they should have the presence of mind, and be humble enough to admit that it is beyond their scope to understand! But note, you are obviously not a Christian, but, and this may shock you, you are most certainly religious!!! I hope this doesn’t scare you!

          • Kinetic1

            Jay,
            I am no more surprised or scared then the members of my former church youth group.
            You’ve put a pretty good spin on things here, but for all practical purposes I would argue that a forced prayer to “God” is indeed forced religion. No, prayer is not in itself a religion, but is a common practice in religion. And the fact that Walter feels that our government should withhold funds from any local or state government that refuses to say a prayer at their meetings is indeed a call to force religious practices as prescribed by our Federal Government.
            Your definition of prayer is indeed interesting. The dictionary considers it to be a petition to God or a god, either spoken or thought. A specially worded form used to address God, a god, or another object of worship. Yet you consider it a conversation with another person. Is your God a person? When you pray to God for direction, forgiveness or in thanks are you speaking to a man? Seriously, I agree with you about religion. Religion has cause more wars and more death than almost any other practice in history and almost ended our nation before it got a chance to form, but it is also the means by which people spread the word of their God. So I have no problem with your assessment of religion and Christianity, but I still have to ask, do you think our government should be requiring prayer?

          • Kinetic1

            Jay,
            One more thing. Though I do not make it a habit to either condone or object to everything I read on this site, I have on more than one occasion objected to those I would normally agree with but felt were going to far or had missed some vital information.

            Were you to follow the path you would see that I was supporting Robert’s simple post;
            “From Walter: “or have a prayer”

            What part of NO state religion don’t you understand?

            The government of the United States has no state religion. It’s in the Constitution. You should actually read it some day.”

            and not the post that followed. There may have been something to talk about in the later, but I don’t see anything particularly “provocative” in this short post.

  • DonnaAngelStar

    The people complaining about our “allegiance” are a minority and I would not accommodate them on this issue or prayer/meditation. We’ve allowed the Marxists too much leeway.
    We always pledged allegiance and said prayer/meditation before meetings or events. Let them tune out, they can stand silently, like we’ve stood by while they took these same rights away from us.
    I’m all for accommodating but I do believe it’s gotten ridiculous. If our pledge “disturbs” and “cramps their style,” so be it, let the style cramping begin. It’s high time we took our country back from the Global Progressives who are ruining and driving it into the ground.
    WE STAND WITH ISRAEL!
    IMPEACH JUSTICE SOTOMAYOR!

  • Joey Biden

    The time is now to stop this crap. The minority rule that has been going on has to be stopped. If I’m ever in a situation where the Pledge is banned or UNDER GOD or GOD BLESS is omitted, I will stand up and speak those words at the top of my lungs. It’s called freedom of speach people, use it. The commies can kiss my red,white and blue.

    • Robert Smith

      You can have your freedom of speech Joey. If you want to look like an extremist religious nut you are welcome to stand up and shout: “UNDER GOD or GOD BLESS”

      What about?: “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion”

      You seem to have missed the point on that one, Joey.

      Rob

      • Walter

        Rob, you are an interesting individual, an atheistic communist, but still interesting. I will still keep you in prayer. However, prayer was the issue. The issue was failure to pledge to the American flag. If you can’t do that then why not relocate to a country that better suits your philosophy.

        • Robert Smith

          Walter asks: “Rob, you are an interesting individual, an atheistic communist,”

          Quit lying Walter. I do follow a religion. It’s simply different from the brutal version of christanity you follow. Besides I have a problem with suggesting my kids get into canabalism. You know, that transsubstancian thing. Oh, so ugly.

          “I will still keep you in prayer.”

          Don’t. I consider that spiritual rape. I want NOTHING to do with your brutal god, or his followers.

          “However, prayer was the issue.”

          Yes, our government shall not establish a religion. If you don’t think it is establishing a specific religion would you allow the praying to be dedicated to Zuse? After all, he’s in charge of all the gods. Just ask ‘em.

          “The issue was failure to pledge to the American flag.”

          As long as “under god” is in it I don’t speak those parts. I think we have failed to include a particular god as part of our government. Besides, it’s idoletry. Isn’t that unchristian?

          “If you can’t do that then why not relocate to a country that better suits your philosophy.”

          I love America and I’m sticking around to see the extreme reich done in as so many failed cults have gone before. I don’t worship a piece of cloth. I worship the words and thoughts of the United States Constitution. Part o that is NO STATE RELITION.

          Rob

      • Jay

        robert: What about?: “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion”

        What about, Congress shall make no laws interfering in one’s expressing their religion?

        • Robert Smith

          Jay asks: “Congress shall make no laws interfering in one’s expressing their religion?”

          Let’s see… Your religion demands that the Constitution of the United States Constitution be violated so you can advocating establishing your Amreican christian taliban, is that it.

          You have free speech, just not as part of trying to establish your religion through an official government function.

          Rob

          • Jay

            Let’s see… Your religion demands that the Constitution of the United States Constitution be violated so you can advocating establishing your Amreican christian taliban, is that it. robert, that is simply false!

            You have free speech, just not as part of trying to establish your religion through an official government function. robert, that is simply false!

            Rob: Congratulations, your name is the only thing you got correct! Yeahh robert, now let’s work on your potty training, and if you do well, you can watch “Barney and Friends.”

    • Kinetic1

      Joey,
      CAN”T YOU PEOPLE READ! ONE, 1 council member representing ONE, 1 Ward in Eugene brought up this bill to address SOME of the people in his district. There was no great public outcry asking for the pledge. There have been no petitions or calls for a vote. All the information available points to the majority of the citizens of Eugene not caring that their council has not recited the pledge in … no one seems to know how long. You fuss about how “The minority rule that has been going on has to be stopped.” Well it was, to a point. The majority of those representing the majority of Eugene’s citizens stopped the minority from having their way at every meeting, but allowed that it would be fitting on several national days of patriotic recognition.

  • meteorlady

    Eugene is a hotbed for liberals. Most of the WTO demonstrators that tore up Seattle were from there. The “University” teaches liberal ideas and promotes socialism. Not surprising, but it does seem anti-American.

  • s c

    Oregon, it seems, has a bad infestation of fruits, nuts and flakes from California. Why don’t they simply do what they want, and include sayings from Chairman Mao, Joe Stalin, Hitler and Saul Alinsky?
    Then, they won’t have enough time during the rest of the session(s) to think about the Pledge of Allegiance. Ultraliberal progressives make everything so damned complicated. Simplicity, it seems, is beyond their primitive mental capabilities (just like the schmucks in Washington, it needs to be said).

  • thecolonel

    We don’t call it ‘The Left Coast’ for nothing!

    • Jana

      thecolonel,

      Now that’s a good one. :D

  • Joan Squitieri, Columbia, S.C.

    It should come as no surprise to anyone who studies & follows the political goings on in this Country today. Oregon is a far left blue State & has been for some time. This is the same State who’s cities allow naked women to walk around in their front yards for all to see. It’s a State close enough to California to have collected the overflow from that bunch of left over hippies from the 1960s.

    • eddie47d

      Wisconsin has left over right wing radicals from the McCarthy era stirring up trouble in that state. Look at the outside forces (Koch’s) who have been trying to take Wisconsin and American back in weakening workers rights. Too many politicians and corporates are trying to raise Their standard of living on the backs of the ordinary workers. These same politicians are tearing down the once strong middle class to pad their pockets. What is going on in Oregon is nothing when compared to the damage being done in Wisconsin in pitting American against American.

    • Robert Smith

      From Joan: ” Oregon is a far left blue State & has been for some time.”

      Correct. THE PEOPLE spoke about things like assisted suicide TWICE and yet the extreme right didn’t respect that vote, or the states’ rights along with it when Bush sent Ashcroft out to try to undo it (legislating through the courts I believe the reich calls it).

      What about the 1998 Ballot Measure 67 (passed by 55%) when the PEOPLE spoke out and legalized medical pot? Do you respect the freedom and states’ rights presented in that vote?

      Learn what real freedom is in America and quit listening to Rush and the rest of his nasty choir of right wing nuts from the extreme reich.

      Rob

  • Robert Smith

    Another extreme reich wing nuthouse IMO.

    You claim to support the Constitution but want it to be under YOUR god with government support. Bzzzzz, wrong. That ain’t allowed.

    Rob

  • Robert Smith

    Joan seems to be concerned about: “naked women to walk around in their front yards”

    Why? Want them in burkas?

    From my guy perspective a naked woman is one of the most beautiful things on Earth. Who are you to deny any god or goddesses finest creation?

    Rob

    • Jay

      robert, why do you burden us with your sexual needs and frustrations?

      • Robert Smith

        From Jay who is again telling a lie: “robert, why do you burden us with your sexual needs and frustrations?”

        The image of a naked woman isn’t necessarily “sexual.” I can appreciate the Venus de Milo and her right to bare arms without any sexual implications.

        I see from you ranting much like homophobic nonsense that comes from folks who have their own issues to desire someone of the same sex. How’s that for a remote diagnosis like you are trying to play on me?

        Oh, and “frustrations.” ROFL… None in the sexual area. But, again thanks for showing just how willing you are to lie rather than actually discuss an issue. Might that be from a limited intellect?

        Rob

        Rob

        • Jay

          robert, it sounds like you might be on the verge of a nervous breakdown, no doubt as the result of trying to control the opinion and views of everyone on this blog site! And you say you stand for freedom? Hardly, you sound like a sexually frustrated sodomite stalinist!

          • eddie47d

            Maybe Jay is having the nervous breakdown by bringing up”Stalin”. How did he get into the picture?He was sadistic in governing but I didn’t know he was a sodomite.

  • C130 Gunship

    Oregon……Land of Libtardia..

    • Robert Smith

      Actually you should watch Idiocracy. It’s a movie where I think (clearly stated as an opinion) you would fit right in.

      Rob

      • C130 Gunship

        Robert Smith–Or is it Mr. Solid Blue State? If you happen to come down to Texas, please stop by the house so I can extend not one, but both my hands in friendship and to attempt to reverse your recto-cranial inversion.

  • Jay

    Who wrote the pledge of allegiance?

    Francis Bellamy (1855 – 1931), a Baptist minister, wrote the original Pledge in August 1892. He was a Christian Socialist. In his Pledge, he is expressing the ideas of his first cousin, Edward Bellamy, author of the American socialist utopian novels, Looking Backward (1888) and Equality (1897).

    Francis Bellamy in his sermons and lectures and Edward Bellamy in his novels and articles described in detail how the middle class could create a planned economy with political, social and economic equality for all. The government would run a peace time economy similar to our present military industrial complex.

    The Pledge was published in the September 8th issue of The Youth’s Companion, the leading family magazine and the Reader’s Digest of its day. Its owner and editor, Daniel Ford, had hired Francis in 1891 as his assistant when Francis was pressured into leaving his baptist church in Boston because of his socialist sermons. As a member of his congregation, Ford had enjoyed Francis’s sermons. Ford later founded the liberal and often controversial Ford Hall Forum, located in downtown Boston.

    In 1892 Francis Bellamy was also a chairman of a committee of state superintendents of education in the National Education Association. As its chairman, he prepared the program for the public schools’ quadricentennial celebration for Columbus Day in 1892. He structured this public school program around a flag raising ceremony and a flag salute – his ‘Pledge of Allegiance.’

    His original Pledge read as follows: ‘I pledge allegiance to my Flag and (to*) the Republic for which it stands, one nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.’ He considered placing the word, ‘equality,’ in his Pledge, but knew that the state superintendents of education on his committee were against equality for women and African Americans. [ * 'to' added in October, 1892. ]

    Dr. Mortimer Adler, American philosopher and last living founder of the Great Books program at Saint John’s College, has analyzed these ideas in his book, The Six Great Ideas. He argues that the three great ideas of the American political tradition are ‘equality, liberty and justice for all.’ ‘Justice’ mediates between the often conflicting goals of ‘liberty’ and ‘equality.’

    In 1923 and 1924 the National Flag Conference, under the ‘leadership of the American Legion and the Daughters of the American Revolution, changed the Pledge’s words, ‘my Flag,’ to ‘the Flag of the United States of America.’ Bellamy disliked this change, but his protest was ignored.

    In 1954, Congress after a campaign by the Knights of Columbus, added the words, ‘under God,’ to the Pledge. The Pledge was now both a patriotic oath and a public prayer.

    Bellamy’s granddaughter said he also would have resented this second change. He had been pressured into leaving his church in 1891 because of his socialist sermons. In his retirement in Florida, he stopped attending church because he disliked the racial bigotry he found there.

    What follows is Bellamy’s own account of some of the thoughts that went through his mind in August, 1892, as he picked the words of his Pledge:

    It began as an intensive communing with salient points of our national history, from the Declaration of Independence onwards; with the makings of the Constitution…with the meaning of the Civil War; with the aspiration of the people…

    The true reason for allegiance to the Flag is the ‘republic for which it stands.’ …And what does that vast thing, the Republic mean? It is the concise political word for the Nation – the One Nation which the Civil War was fought to prove. To make that One Nation idea clear, we must specify that it is indivisible, as Webster and Lincoln used to repeat in their great speeches. And its future?

    Just here arose the temptation of the historic slogan of the French Revolution which meant so much to Jefferson and his friends, ‘Liberty, equality, fraternity.’ No, that would be too fanciful, too many thousands of years off in realization. But we as a nation do stand square on the doctrine of liberty and justice for all…

    If the Pledge’s historical pattern repeats, its words will be modified during this decade. Below are two possible changes.

    Some prolife advocates recite the following slightly revised Pledge: ‘I pledge allegiance to the Flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all, born and unborn.’

    A few liberals recite a slightly revised version of Bellamy’s original Pledge: ‘I pledge allegiance to my Flag, and to the Republic for which it stands, one nation, indivisible, with equality, liberty and justice for all.’

    http://oldtimeislands.org/pledge/pledge.htm

    • Robert Smith

      One of the most insightful readings of the Pledge was done by Red Skelton. It’s easy to find, just google “Red Skelton Pledge.”

      For those who think it’s imposible to give and be a christian one only need to look at Red Skelton. His life was one of giving. Red Skelton was a Freemason, a member of Vincennes Lodge No. 1, in Indiana. He also was a member of both the Scottish and York Rite. He was the recipient of the Gold Medal of the General Grand Chapter, Royal Arch Masons, for Distinguished Service in the Arts and Sciences. On September 24, 1969, he received the honorary 33° in the Scottish Rite and was a Gourgas Medal recipient in 1995.

      For those who don’t know it the Shriners are Masons who support a bunch of orthopedic and burn hospitals. Care that is FREE to kids who need it.

      Rob

  • ONTIME

    Apparently the Pledge is not studied enough for some to appreciate the value of it’s words and the meanings stated and implied by simply saying to those around you, “My life would be far different were I not a citizen of a country whose history is rich with freedom.” It must be to much to ask for some to strain at simple recognition of a honorable word of thanks…..

  • Jay

    The smart way to keep people passive and obedient is to strictly limit the spectrum of acceptable opinion, but allow very lively debate within that spectrum. Noam Chomsky

    • Robert Smith

      Inserting your religon in the Pledge is NOT a proper discussion.

      Rob

      • Jay

        rebert:Inserting your religon in the Pledge is NOT a proper discussion.

        Then you are against free speech, and you contradict yourself when you claim to be a staunch supporter of freedom, which includes, freedom of speech! Go play in your sandbox robert…

        • eddie47d

          I have no trouble with God being in the Pledge but it was indeed the Conservatives who snuck it in there during the McCarthy era.Considering that, he helped bully the rewriting of the Pledge.

  • http://ahalbert@smart-technology.net Allan

    “building an organization on fear and hate”

    Sounds like what today’s “environmentalists” do. They tell us to FEAR man-made global warming, and they HATE people who don’t agree with them.

  • Jay

    September 8, 2006
    Eugene, Oregon City Councilors REFUSES to say Pledge of Allegiance instead wants to recite Communist Manifesto

    Tuesday 28 June 2011

    What is EUGENE, OREGON thinking?
    George Brown wants the COMMUNIST MANIFESTO recited not Pledge of Allegiance!
    – Eugene City Councilors stated that they could NOT in Clear Conscience recite the  ‘Pledge of Allegiance’ but would rather recite the COMMUNIST MANIFESTO so what does the communist manifesto say exactly?

    Read it here:http://www.gather.com/viewArticle.action?articleId=281474979520447 

    • eddie47d

      Is that selective reading Jay? George Brown did not say that and neither did the other council members. They felt they did not have to recite anything that was indoctrinating . Whether the Pledge or the Manifesto which means you are trying to indoctrinate us with falsehoods.

      • Jay

        The mere fact that they had the audacity to suggest, that the pledge of allegiance is liken to the communist manifesto, and to infer, that allowing the reciting of the pledge of allegiance is to engage in indoctrination, is nothing short of appalling and, should provide a clue, that should be apparent to any thinking and discerning persons, as to who these people, the members of the council of the city of Eugene actually are. They are the subversive, socialist/marxists/communist lap-dogs of their NWO masters, sent to gradually and methodically sanitize the minds, the identity, and any notion of a sovereign and free nation from the consciousness of the American people. Brick by brick, first, it was the removal of prayer from the schools and to prohibit any mention of faith expressed in public places (the removal of the nation’s Christian identity), for this may offend some and thus cause division. Second, to prohibit, first here and then there, the pledge of allegiance or any show and expression of patriotism (to remove from the Nation its historical roots) as this again, will offend some and cause division. What’s next? Prohibiting the display of American flags for fear it may offend some and thus cause division? Do you not see where this is heading, or have you been so blinded by the brain numbing rhetoric of the socialist mantra of; Diversity, tolerance, progressivism, unity… and all with the goal and aim of eradicating sovereignty and individualism! But look who I’m asking, eddie, the leader of the commie brigade that frequents this conservative site, always vigil, and always attacking in swarm anyone who dares express any religious or patriotic sentiments. But I say: Away with you all, you anti-American scum, socialist dogs and enemies of our great country. And lastly: FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!!!!

        • Jana

          Jay,
          GREAT POSTS. God bless you.

          • eddie47d

            Spin until you get dizzy Jay.

    • Kinetic1

      OK Jay, now you’re starting to scare me. September 8, 2006 is the date that the person who posted this story joined Gather, not a reference to this having happened before. And the claim is bogus. What one of the council members noted (not Brown) was that if they allowed one small group to pressure them into adopting this new rule they might then have to respond to demands that they start reading other things like the Communist Manifesto. I don’t know who this clown is who posted on Gather, but you need to find some new sources.

  • ChristianPatriot

    I live just North of Eugene. Oregon is so beyond Liberal controlled its ridiculous. Now this moron is quoted saying that the Pledge of Allegiance does not unite us…. UM REALLY? The Flag is the uniter granted but pledging allegiance to the FLAG OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA!!! Its ANOTHER sad day in Oregon and ANOTHER sad day in AMERICA

  • LearningHistory1

    It seems to me that we will soon stand for nothing and so we will soon fall for anything. If we really spend hours and hours casting aspersions at one another over saying the Pledge of Allegiance, a small, but equally important foundational piece which might help us renew our focus on helping our neighbors and ourselves thrive and grow, then we do not deserve to exist. If we cannot owe allegiance to “God” then this is the path we are destined to travel. If God is so repulsive to so many, then God will leave us alone and leave us to our own devices. Witness the vitriol and hate over saying the Pledge of Allegiance–REALLY–REALLY???? Focusing on God might actually help us draw together. But if you really hate him so much, you will hate your neighbor and yourself and the road is dark ahead because the light has been cast aside. I am sorry for all of us–you are my sister and brother and we have an obligation to do better. This vitriol is insane.

  • LearningHistory1

    Robert–

    I am sorry you are so very angry. Life must have–and still may be– very difficult. I do support the Constitution and the Founders and one God–there are many gods people worship, materialism, sports, whatever–but there is only one God. He is the Ancient of Days and he made you. You may not want prayer, but I will pray for you. Whatever you are facing, I hope that it turns out good for you and I wish nothing but good for you. Many blessings to you.

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