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Census Shows Where Taxes Are Lower, Growth Is Greater

December 24, 2010 by  

Census Shows Where Taxes Are Lower, Growth Is Greater

The U.S. Census is beginning to release some figures from the 2010 count and there are some tidbits of interest there.

One is the fact that seven of the nine states that do not have a state income tax grew faster than the national average, as noted by Michael Barone in washingtonexaminer.com. The other two, South Dakota and New Hampshire, had the fastest growth in their regions.

High tax, big government socialist types like to spout the nonsense that the tax structure does not influence business or residency decisions. But 35 percent of the nation’s total population growth — from 281,421,906 in 2000 to 308,745,538 in 2010 — occurred in those nine states. And Texas — the state with the greatest growth — has a diversified economy, is business-friendly and has low taxes.

President Barack Obama and members of Congress bemoan our nation’s dreary economic situation while contemplating increasing taxes and implementing burdensome legislation and standing idly by while government agencies impose oppressive regulation without the Constitutional authority to do so.

The quickest way to kick start the economy — and return to Constitutional governance — is to take an axe to government. I’m not talking about slowing the growth of government, which in legislative doublespeak is called a cut. I’m talking about taking draconian measures like eliminating unConstitutional agencies — the Departments of Education, Energy and Homeland Security, the Transportation Security Administration, the Food and Drug Administration and the Corporation for Public Broadcasting for starters — closing down military bases around the world, ending the perpetual wars and bringing all troops home, phasing out social welfare programs and eliminating funding for Leftist boondoggles like the National Endowment for the Arts.

After that, how about we close down the Federal Reserve, return to a gold standard and repeal the 16th Amendment — and end the income tax — and 17th Amendment while we’re at it?

Government types and socialists — is that redundant? — hear suggestions like this and wail. But slashing government and ending its ability to debase the currency would be a giant leap toward Constitutional governance.

Anything less is continued support of tyranny.

Bob Livingston

is an ultra-conservative American and author of The Bob Livingston Letter™, founded in 1969. Bob has devoted much of his life to research and the quest for truth on a variety of subjects. Bob specializes in health issues such as nutritional supplements and alternatives to drugs, as well as issues of privacy (both personal and financial), asset protection and the preservation of freedom.

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  • http://none Mike

    Hmm low taxes equals growth. Now that will come as a supprise to some that post here. I wonder why people are running out of NY and Cali if high tax rates are so good for the economy. Well lets see how they twist this one. Mike L.

    • TIME

      Mike,

      Our home in New York on Long Island of what was built in the 1800′s as guest home on an estate, I do admit we had 5 acres and I did upgrade the house as well add on to it. It was only 1600 Sqft when I bought it in the early 90′s. Its now 3500 Sqft with the upgraded Barn with 1800 sqft office in the loft and three car garage under. This is on the North Shore Near Oyster Bay. And yes, it was truly beautiful there and yes we both really miss it.

      Keep in mind this is the “old folks TAX rate” for our home, in 2011 the tax’s were going to jump from the 2010 – $38,970.00 – to get this; $57,990.00 yes you did read that right.

      That does not cover Electric, nor Gas, nor Insurance, nor State ICT, nor Fed ICT, all of what is much higher than in Georgia.
      Also keep in mind again thats the old folks RATE, if we were younger that number would already be $60K and thats going up in 2011 as I noted so the folks who bought our home I would venture to think that their tax’s on our old home will hit near $100K per year.
      Whats strange is that we sold our home in twenty two days after we listed it, and got our asking price in cash… Go figure.

      • BobbyB

        That is amazing. For all that dough, you get to spend 20% of your life on the permanently under destruction LIE~

        • Dan az

          Ben Franklin
          The more the people are discontented with the oppression of taxes; the greater need the prince has of money to distribute among his partisans and pay the troops that are to suppress all resistance, and enable him to plunder at pleasure. There is scarce a king in a hundred who would not, if he could, follow the example of Pharaoh, get first all the peoples money, then all their lands, and then make them and their children servants for ever …”

          • Granny Mae

            Just want to wish everyone on here a Merry Christmas and a wonderful New Year ! Blessings to ALL .

          • Dan az

            Hey Granny
            I wish you and all of yours the very best Keep head down and powder dry.

        • Granny Mae

          Time,

          I can’t imagine paying that kind of taxes ! I have seen some beautiful property in my day but I have never seen any place that could help me sleep any better that would cost me that kind of money! When taxes are that high you know it is just that someone greedy wants his hand in your pocket ! People just can’t stand to see you work for a place that beautiful and not covet what you have so they devise a way to spread your wealth ! They will tax you like that so they can give some illeagle welfare and food stamps and send their kids to school and then they will let you put them to work and pay them to do your yard work and complain that they don’t make enough to live on and the beat goes on ! Just think of it this way. You are probably sleeping just as well where you are now than you were in the place you left ! Plus you got more money in YOUR pocket ! Have a Happy New Year !

      • DaveH

        It was probably bought by Government employees (the monied class).

        • Bob Wire

          lol, it seems like it, doesn’t it? I wonder how many people work for all governments, state, county, city and federal. How could the question be worded to get such an answer?

          All things being relative, we were somewhat happy here in Texas back in the early 60′s making 2.25 per hour, able to buy a new GI starter homes for 7,800.00 and make 75 dollar homes mortgage payments.

          needless to say , that’s changed.

          The American people have made the money and paid the taxes over the last decade. ~ It’s just that much of the Money has been spent poorly, ~ offering no returns , no equity. And then there’s the few that’s managed to funnel off more then most.

          The problems we have today are the rubber band effects of years of poor spending practices. We’ve got holes in our bucket and we can’t fill it up!

          All these census figures that are now coming in, will take time to assimilate and then they will be argued over for years to come as every whiz brain-o attempts to make their bias point and explain what they mean.

          But it shouldn’t be hard to understand what thief, loss and general misspending can do for anyone and their general welfare.

          Couple that with the dynamic of inflation and interest on borrowing and today’s outlook can be very gloomy for anyone.

          All I can tell you is, I didn’t steal it! and I didn’t spent it!

          and I did what I could, to make people stop and look up, starting 25 years ago, ~ saying, “This $hit ain’t right!” ~ that all I knew! something wasn’t right.

          Oh well, ~ I’d like to say I don’t care anymore, but that would be a lie. But I can only control me and what I do.

          My advice? plug the holes in your own bucket and keep working to affect meaningful change in your life and your government.

          • DaveH

            Bob,
            This looks like a pretty good compilation of total Government employees (about 20,000,000). Keep in mind that it is well-documented that Federal Employees earn twice as much as average private sector employees (in Total Compensation):
            http://www.data360.org/dsg.aspx?Data_Set_Group_Id=228

            Also keep in mind that these figures don’t include the people that work indirectly for Government (aerospace, subcontractors, etc.). In total the various Government levels spend about 37% of our Gross Domestic Product.

          • bbstacker

            Great advice Sir. We can’t be islands unto ourselves, but we have to have convictions based on facts and limit the emotions when it comes to debate with those who have been sold a rotten bill of goods. I paid cash, about $3800, for a new car in 1978. My parents bought a house in 1955 with about 3 acres for $16,000 in a great part of South Georgia. Now, neither of these will do much except provide a down payment, if that, and the cars are not maintainable by the average joe, and the houses are huge and inefficient with families that are no larger than in 1955 (probably smaller). People want to say the cost went up because the value went up, but that is grossly wrong–the price went up because the dollar has plummeted in value. Finding those communities where they operate with common sense and keep gov’t out, as far as possible, of the residents’ wallets is conducive to prosperity for those who earn it on their own merits and perspiration. These days, those people who pursue prosperity and self-reliance are labeled as evil and rich. In the land of opportunity, the welfare class only sees the opportunity to think they are entitled to what they have no ambition of their own to achieve on their own. To fit their inability to stand on their own two feet (lazy), this class of resident (these are not Citizens)adopts the zombie-itis some political jackass promises them that he’ll take it from those who worked for it and give it to those who have sucked up the kook-aid to imagine that it has somehow been stolen from them.

            The stark reality is coming when the workers who pay taxes diminish in enough numbers that the revenue cannot possibly accomodate the gov’t engineered benevolence. We are already there, it’s just a matter of time before the dollar loses it’s reserve currency status, and those green paper things in wallets are fully rendered worthless.

            Listen to this for some insight: http://www.ktrh.com/pages/michaelberry.html
            (how a democrat thinks)

          • JeffH

            bbstacker. that sound track was a great example!

          • DaveH

            As Margaret Thatcher said “The problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of other peoples’ money”

          • Vicki

            DaveH says:
            “As Margaret Thatcher said “The problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of other peoples’ money” ”

            Hence the liberal solution to running out is print more. :)

          • JC

            Vicki,
            Not just the Liberal solution, but the Republican solution as well.
            Let’s not forget that Bush did start the “stimulus” ball rolling.
            But it didn’t start there either. It started with giving foreign bankers the keys to the printing presses.
            Those same foreign interests are still in control and they “own” our government, no matter who is in power.

            And just as an observation, printing money has historically been the last gasp of every failed economy. Even the Romans devalued there own currency trying to keep it propped up. But ultimately it failed too as people no longer respected it’s value and would not use it for trade.

            Look familiar?

          • Dan az

            BW
            Government big enough to supply everything you need is big enough to take everything you have … The course of history shows that as a government grows, liberty decreases.
            Thomas Jefferson

          • Bob Wire

            “Government big enough to supply everything you need is big enough to take everything you have ”

            of course, ~ so tit for tat? ~ where are we going with this ?

            HCR to HLS ? ~ you would expected greater numbers, greater problems yet smaller government? Some kind of abrupt halt! Cease and desist!

            Well? I think that is possible and goal to aim toward. But it’s hard to ignore the current fires that blaze out of control.

            Let us get some of these fires put out and address the growth of government in a meaningful ways and accept what we start today will be for our children to finish.

        • Shibamom

          Really??? So all Gov’t employees are richer than rich…right???? Well sir, I am a Gov’t employee and I could NEVER afford that kind of tax and would NEVER even CONSIDER living in a place that would cost me that much. Another thing, stop believing the BS that the media spread about how Gov’t employees make twice the private sector! One article actually stated that the average salary was $150K!! Come on folks…do you really think ALL Gov’t employees make that much??? Well, they don’t and neither do and a whole crap load of us WON’T EVER make that much in our careers! Believe it or not, there is a class division withing the Gov’t worker ranks too. The high earners are the ones in DC and the Senior Executive Service (SES)types…not the ordinary worker. Please don’t lump all Gov’t employees together. Many of us do have an actual work ethic and care tremendously about what we do. For me, my job is to ensure our young sailors have what they need to do their jobs in these ridiculous wars we’re fighting. I could give a crap about the politics of these wars but I’ll tell you one thing, I DO GIVE A CRAP about our young service men and women fighting for us…NOT our damn Government who surely doesn’t care a crap about them. Especially since I spent 27 years in the military and I know what it’s like to have been forgotten by my own country and citizens.

    • EddieW

      Obaba was about to almost quadruple taxes, and think how great that would have been for the economy!!, well…he wants the US destroyed, and is doing a great job of trying, Reid is “santa’s” helper in it!! though we did stop the Dream act…the US must now rank far lower than the Soviets in nuke weapons, and we cannot build things to stop nuclear rockets, even if from N. Korea or Iran….yet they get a huge tactical nuke weapon program…we surrendering!!

      • Mike In MI

        Merry Christmas EddieW and All you other Personal Liberty Folks out there -

        It just occurred to me that maybe the highly bellicose nations might not be so likely to need to send us nuclear calling cards sice we’ve become a second or third rate nation – in debt to everybody. How can we rate being called a warlike nation? We’ve become like a schoolyard bully with two broken arms and a bum leg. Maybe we should start making noises to bring our boys and girls home before we’re in such a terrible state they have to swim home.
        What a revoltin’ development. Then we could do something good for us – like, line our borders with fighters to keep out the Mexican drug cartels, illegals and all their other baggage. (Bu-u-u-t, Obumbler won’t do that because it would be reasonable – and, he needs their votes in 2012.)

        Anywa, all you wonderful posters whovisit here have a Happy New Year -

      • Mike In MI

        Merry Christmas EddieW and All you other Personal Liberty Folks out there -

        It just occurred to me that maybe the highly bellicose nations might not be so likely to need to send us nuclear calling cards sice we’ve become a second or third rate nation – in debt to everybody. How can we rate being called a warlike nation? We’ve become like a schoolyard bully with two broken arms and a bum leg. Maybe we should start making noises to bring our boys and girls home before we’re in such a terrible state they have to swim home.
        What a revoltin’ development. Then we could do something good for us – like, line our borders with fighters to keep out the Mexican drug cartels, illegals and all their other baggage. (Bu-u-u-t, Obumbler won’t do that because it would be reasonable – and, he needs their votes in 2012.)

        Anyway, all you wonderful posters who visit here have a Happy New Year – and PROSPER…….JUST TO SPITE THE ATTEMPTS OF THE DINGLEBERRIES IN Wa, DC. May the crabs of Net Neutrality grow mighty and ineradicably in their crotches.

        Thank you, Bob Livingston!!!

    • Dan az

      Hey mike
      Confused

      I became confused when I heard the word “Service” used with these agencies:

      Internal Revenue ‘Service’
      U.S. Postal ‘Service’
      Telephone ‘Service’
      Cable TV ‘Service’
      Civil ‘Service’
      State, City,

      County & Public ‘Service’
      Customer ‘Service’

      This is not what I thought ‘Service’ meant.

      But today, I overheard two farmers talking, and one of them said he had hired a bull to ‘Service’ a few cows.

      BAM!!! It all came into focus. Now I understand what all those agencies are doing to us.

      You are now as enlightened as I am

      • JeffH

        Merry Christmas Dan, and I don’t mean Merry Service.

        • Dan az

          Back at ya Jeff.

      • http://?? Joe H.

        To JeffH, Dan az, Claire, Dave H, libertytrain, Al sieber, Vigilant, vicki, mick any others I know I have forgotten, God Bless you all with a Very Merry Christmas and a Safe and Happy New Year!!!! May your worst day next year be twice as good as your best day in the year past!!! May we all be blessed with prosperity and a few statesmen to replace a few of these politicians!!!

        • Claire

          JoeH–God love you! Merry Christmas to you and I hope the New Year is wonderful for you and yours and all of us!

        • Vigilant

          Thank you very much, Joe H., and belated Christmas wishes to you and everyone else on this site.

        • Dan az

          Thanks Joe and I hope you got what ever gun you where looking for under the tree this year.

  • JeffH

    California? Let’s see here…mmm. A slight population decrease in the reported Census statistics and a Sacramento legislator cries foul!
    Can you imagine that? That only means less Federal dollars to spend for these asinine morons! Now we’re starting to get somewhere…serves all the az$wholes right, the miserale basterds!

    • TIME

      Jeff,

      Man I feel for you I loved living where I did in Point Reyes back in the 1970′s, even back then the Tax’s were crazy. I can’t fathom what they would be now. All the folks I knew out there have moved to other areas of the country, a few have moved to Hawaii where they noted its less expencive to live.

      • Al Sieber

        TIME, you won’t believe what I pay for taxes for 40 acres, patented land, patented land is where you own the surface rights, water and mineral rights. I have a small cabin, a big shop and a mill for crushing ore, and a small lab. for analyzing different types of minerals, the other 20 acres is about 3 miles east of me up against a wilderness area and full of wild burros, big horn sheep, mountain lions,etc, and other types of wild life, well I pay less then $300, I don’t need a building permit because we’re miners and we fall under a different jurisdiction. now on the other hand I have to pay thousands of dollars a year to lease federal land, and every year it goes up, they squeeze more and more money out of you. so they get me in the end anyways.

        • Al Sieber

          They’re getting ready to close down more Fed. Land, to keep us off. they’re stealing it for the U.N. so they can herd us into cities.

          • Dan az

            Hey Al
            Same here I was paying 180 for forty then I split it into four tens and gave it to the boys now Im paying 700 for ten makes since dosent it?I still will not allow any building dept. on the property.And they havent bothered with me in 16yrs and the number of holes in their trucks have increased over the years also.They finally gave up!

          • Mike In MI

            DanAZ- Shame on you!
            Yor comment about their holy trucks forced me to spit all over my screen and keyboard. Happy New Year

          • Dan az

            Mike
            Sorry about that it happened to me to, still trying to clean up coffee stains on the screen thanks to Joe and Jeff.

          • http://?? Joe H.

            Hey Dan az,
            I resemble that remark!!! If you read my post on the first thread, don’t take a sip first!! I pretty well explained Nobummers lack of school records!!!

    • JC

      Through rising taxes and the promotion of illegals coming into the state, California has been cutting it’s own throat for a long time now.

      • JeffH

        TIME & JC, after the results of the mid-terms, I have a seething distaste in my craw for the “majority” idiots running this asylum. Without question, California is the most disgusting state on the left coast to live in. Now living in the central valley, in what I thought was a pretty conservative area of the state, I’ve learned that there are as many idiots here as in SF or LA based on some of the re-elected “incumbents” that have screwed the farmers in the past.

        TIME, Point Reyes is definetly one of the coastal treasures of California and, I’m sure, a tough place to vacate for you.

        • TIME

          Jeff,

          Your not kidding, I loved it there and with just a quick run up the coast to the Russian River area As I recall the town there was Jenner, I loved that area.

          I used to just pop up there to get away for a few days now and then I had a friend who had a small Beach shack on the bluffs above the small town.
          In some parts of the forest around the Russian river it’s so dark during the day due to the redwoods being so tall and Phat.
          its like night time during the day

          The Point was super as many of my Musican friends all lived within
          a few miles one way or the other, there was jam nightly somewhere.

          Anyone who has never seen a sun set at the point has missed one of the most beautiful sights ever.

          The fog rolling in tightly to the water with the sun sending red rays throught it like swords, and the sky gets that deep purple and pale blue all folded into oranges and golden colors then the fog hits the cliffs and it’s like a blanket that covers the whole area as the night sky sets in. I can post a thousand words yet each day is differant.

          • JeffH

            So beautiful isn’t it. Full of sea life, whales sightings and coastal wildlife. Jenner by the sea…just a gorgeous area like most of the less populated areas of the state. I used to spend some time salmon fishing on the Klamath river just a mile up river from the ocean…the memories are etched like post cards in my mind.

          • Dan az

            Time and Jeff
            I know exactly what you mean,I lived there in the seventies one of my favorite rides was through coleman valley road to jenner then along the coast through bodega to tomales.I lived up there for for about 10yrs and do miss it but I cant for the life of me ever want to go back.My inlaws bought a house back in the late 60s for 17 thousand in sebastapol today or should I say that before the bubble it was on the market for 1.5 mil nothing was done to it sense the 80s.Disgusting taxes that know one can pay.It was the politics that ran me off oh well at least I have the memories and pictures.

        • http://none Mike

          I did my basic in San Dieago It was ok but probly the best time I had out there was the time I spent with my uncle where he lived in Malibu.

          My cousin is the actor David Keith. Just 2 years ago he moved out of California and bought some land and built a house in union county. He said he was tired of the lifestyle and the expense of California. He also bought 5 times the land he had in Cali and the house he built here for 3 mil would have cost him 15 mil or more there. He now works for sy-fi part time still and teaches at the University of Tennessee. Mike L.

          • JeffH

            Pretty good actor also. I used to get him and Patrick Swayze confused.

          • Mick

            Mike says:
            December 24, 2010 at 1:13 pm
            I did my basic in San Dieago It was ok but probly the best time I had out there was the time I spent with my uncle where he lived in Malibu.

            My cousin is the actor David Keith. Just 2 years ago he moved out of California and bought some land and built a house in union county. He said he was tired of the lifestyle and the expense of California. He also bought 5 times the land he had in Cali and the house he built here for 3 mil would have cost him 15 mil or more there. He now works for sy-fi part time still and teaches at the University of Tennessee. Mike L.

            ***************************
            Mike……Love David Keith good actor and obviously a smart man to move out of California….

    • ValDM

      Yep, CA residents, tired of high taxes have moved out; only to come to WA state bringing their politics with them. Now we’re a liberal state. The only consolation is that it is limited to the western part of the state. Having lived on the west side, I got tired of everyone trying to tell me how to live, and moved east (almost to the Idaho border). But it’s starting to get almost as bad here. Is there any where else we can go? It seems liberalism is everywhere

      • DaveH

        It is a cancer. As the population of Liberals grows, the impoverishment increases which results in more desperate people looking for free handouts and thus more Liberal voters. And a large number of those people don’t know they are enslaving other people when they ask for those handouts. They just think they’re getting money from the Government.

      • JeffH

        ValDM, I had considered living in the Columbia Basin region close to the Tri-Cities area. furter north up around Othello/Moses Lake. Some of the best waterfowl hunting in the nation.

      • Dan az

        ValDM
        Go a little further east into idaho its a conservative state.

        • JeffH

          Dan, I’ve been checking out Idaho too, around Coeur d’Alene and Livingston or Twin Falls.

          • Dan az

            Jeff I have a friend that has parents in Coeur d’Alene and originally they where from alabama he really likes it there.

    • Bob Wire

      ENRON, didn’t help Californians out of this mess either. ~ And you follow that mess back to Wall Street and a ineffective SEC, and on and no it goes.

      • DaveH

        Bob,
        The SEC is just ineffective. They are actually complicit. In the old days, when a company was run inefficiently a corporate raider would buy up their shares, take them over, sell off the poor-performing divisions, and make the remaining divisions more efficient and productive. Then the News Media and Government convinced the citizens that corporate raiders are evil, and turned their heads as corporations passed unfair (I believe illegal) poison pill provisions which treated some stockholders differently than others to thwart the raiders. So now the deadwood corporate executives can get away with much more sloth under the protection of those poison pill provisions.
        This is how Big Government works. They protect their Crony Capitalists at the detriment of the other competitors. We need to level the playing field by getting Government and their politics out of the marketplace.

        • DaveH

          I meant to say “the SEC is NOT just ineffective”.

          • Jeep

            DaveH, well, you were right the first time as well! Although, I might have added “plain” as well…as in, “The SEC is just plain ineffective!” LOL

      • JeffH

        BW, Califoria’s financial woes rest totally on the “liberal socialist” ideals of government and the ignorants voting them into office. Enron? I could only laugh at that one, and out loud also.
        Can you say “environmentalists”? They have total influenced a large part of the legislation that has literally shut down once thriving industries. Can you say 9.55%. Gas tax 18% + 1.2 cents per gallon state UST fee. Enron has nothing to do with California’s financial woes.

        • JeffH

          meant to be…Can you say 9.55% sales tax!

        • Vicki

          All Enron did was follow the new rules that California set up. It is not their fault that a pygmy goat is smarter than the average politician. Their job was to make money. They did their job. I wonder if politicians even remember what the job of government is.

          • Bob Wire

            Well, I beg to differ with you as while ERON didn’t do anything “illegal” they pull California on it knees for about a year! ~ with unscrupulous trade practices. For awhile California was their CASH COW, when ENRON needed the cash to maintain appearances the most, just before it’s fail.

            When a State starts having “brown-outs” while the supple is there but the money is not while nothing has been changed except except who is brokering the sate and supply. ~~ You don’t make up “LOSS” ~ me, you, state, Fed, ~ once it’s gone, ~ it’s gone!

            California is a wealthy state, but her load is too heavy, and too many have taken advantage of her. She has been fleeced and stolen from by more the illegal immigration but by the Cooperate World as well.

            Too many people not carrying the load, too many holes in their bucket.

            In part, we all benefit from cheap labor, where it’s domestic or construction, but California seem to have reached a saturation point. As now we see every Californian has to paid via higher taxes for their neighbors nanny, or the new dive-way or re-roofing job or lawn-care.

            It’s a bunch of these little leaks in your bucket over time that puts you on your knees.

            You can call it “liberal policy” if you want to, and be correct but you are not being complete accurate or correct in this labeling of the cause and what create California’s current economic woes.

            But that’s seem to be what many of you want to do here. I’m left to guess it’s “FUN” and a popular thing to do.

            Texas is not too far behind, as Governor Rick Perry is facing budget short falls due in part the size of the budget and loss in revenues due to lower consumer sales ~ and we are seen as a RED conservative State.

            There is talk of putting out of Federal Medicare, a laying off of teachers and fire men to succeeding from the Union. There is little liberal politics here in the State of Texas, and she too is a wealthy state.

            So just crying “liberal” to anyone that will listen is not going to fix all the problems you seem to find interest in addressing.

          • DaveH

            Bob Wire,
            If you want to cast blame for California’s Brownouts (2000), learn some facts first:
            http://reason.org/news/show/122300.html

          • JeffH

            Thank you DaveH, another lesson in government intrusion 101.

          • JeffH

            Bob, California is a wealthy state? She’s literally bankrupt! Wealthy my azz! No matter what spin or tale you want, it just don’t add up.

            Unemployment in California was 12.4% in September.
            The Unemployed in California is equivalent to the populations of Nevada, New Hampshire and Vermont
            Not even state government jobs are safe in California these days. Last month, government agencies in California slashed a total of 37,300 jobs.
            California has the third highest state income tax in the nation: a 9.55% tax bracket at $47,055 and a 10.55% bracket at $1,000,000.
            California has the highest state sales tax rate in the nation by far at 8.25% + 1%. Indiana has the next highest at 7%.
            Residents of California pay the highest gasoline taxes (over 67 cents per gallon) in the U.S.
            Even with all of the taxes, the budget deficit for the California state government for the current year is approximately 23 billion dollars.
            California’s unfunded pension liability is estimated to be somewhere between $120 billion and $500 billion.
            Twenty percent of the residents of Los Angeles County are now receiving public aid.
            Budget cuts are even jeopardizing public safety.
            California’s poverty rate soared to 15.3 percent in 2009, which was the highest in 11 years.

          • JeffH

            Dozens of California hospitals and emergency rooms have shut down over the last decade because they could not afford to stay open after being endlessly swamped by illegal immigrants and poor Californians who were simply not able to pay for the services they were receiving.
            California home builders began construction on 1,811 homes during the month of August, which was down 77% from August 2006.
            Earlier this year, in Sacramento, California there was one closed business for every six that were still open.
            The “lawsuit climate” in California is ranked number 46 out of all 50 states.
            Residents of California pay some of the highest electricity prices in the entire nation. *see DaveH link above*
            Over 20 percent of California homeowners are now underwater on their mortgages. California is specifically where the nations “housing bubble” began.

            California doesn’t sound very rich anymore does it Bob?

          • Palin12

            I paid a visit to a friend in Eureka, CA last month and was astonished to pay $0.75 a gallon more for gas than here in Nevada. How can that be with all of CA’s oil wells and we have none at all?

          • Bob Wire

            I still maintain California is a very wealthy state!

            You show me a state that can carry such a great load!(36,961,664 people) and still be where she is today. Persons per square mile, in 2000 and it only grown since then; California- 217. The USA- 79.6

            This state is carrying some serious baggage, now you can look at it anyway you wish, but this would completely ruin most every state in the union. If you want to blame this on just, all liberal politics, be my guest. But I see a serious border issue and too many people concentrated in the cities and over valued property. Somebody is getting rich in California and many getting only poorer.

            The first figure is California and the second is the entire USA.
            People QuickFacts California USA
            Population definition and source info Population, 2009 estimate 36,961,664 307,006,550
            Population, percent change, April 1, 2000 to July 1 definition and source info Population, percent change, April 1, 2000 to July 1, 2009 9.1% 9.1%
            definition and source info Population estimates base (April 1) 2000 33,871,648 281,424,602
            Persons under 5 years old, percent definition and source info

            These data are derived from estimates of the resident population of all U.S counties and county equivalents by single years of age (age 0, 1, 2,….85 and over) for July 1 of the reference year, for years since 2000, or for April 1 for 2000.
            Persons under 5 years old, percent, 2009 7.5% 6.9%
            Persons under 18 years old, percent definition and source info Persons under 18 years old, percent, 2009 25.5% 24.3%
            Persons 65 years old and over, percent definition and source info Persons 65 years old and over, percent, 2009 11.2% 12.9%
            Female persons, percent definition and source info Female persons, percent, 2009 49.9% 50.7%

            White persons, percent definition and source info White persons, percent, 2009 (a) 76.4% 79.6%
            Black persons, percent definition and source info Black persons, percent, 2009 (a) 6.6% 12.9%
            American Indian and Alaska Native persons, percent definition and source info American Indian and Alaska Native persons, percent, 2009 (a) 1.2% 1.0%
            Asian persons, percent definition and source info Asian persons, percent, 2009 (a) 12.7% 4.6%
            Native Hawaiian and Other Pacific Islander, percent definition and source info Native Hawaiian and Other Pacific Islander, percent, 2009 (a) 0.4% 0.2%
            Persons reporting two or more races, percent definition and source info Persons reporting two or more races, percent, 2009 2.6% 1.7%
            Persons of Hispanic or Latino origin, percent definition and source info Persons of Hispanic or Latino origin, percent, 2009 (b) 37.0% 15.8%
            White persons not Hispanic, percent definition and source info White persons not Hispanic, percent, 2009 41.7% 65.1%

            Living in same house in 1995 and 2000 definition and source info Living in same house in 1995 and 2000, pct 5 yrs old & over 50.2% 54.1%
            Foreign born persons, percent definition and source info Foreign born persons, percent, 2000 26.2% 11.1%
            Language other than English spoken at home, pct age 5+ definition and source info Language other than English spoken at home, pct age 5+, 2000 39.5% 17.9%
            High school graduates, percent of persons age 25+ definition and source info High school graduates, percent of persons age 25+, 2000 76.8% 80.4%
            Bachelor’s degree or higher, pct of persons age 25+ definition and source info Bachelor’s degree or higher, pct of persons age 25+, 2000 26.6% 24.4%
            Persons with a disability, age 5+ definition and source info Persons with a disability, age 5+, 2000 5,923,361 49,746,248
            Mean travel time to work (minutes), workers age 16+ definition and source info Mean travel time to work (minutes), workers age 16+, 2000 27.7 25.5

            Housing units definition and source info Housing units, 2009 13,433,691 129,925,421
            Homeownership rate definition and source info Homeownership rate, 2000 56.9% 66.2%
            Housing units in multi-unit structures, percent definition and source info Housing units in multi-unit structures, percent, 2000 31.4% 26.4%
            Median value of owner-occupied housing units definition and source info Median value of owner-occupied housing units, 2000 $211,500 $119,600

            Households definition and source info Households, 2000 11,502,870 105,480,101
            Persons per household definition and source info Persons per household, 2000 2.87 2.59
            Median household income definition and source info Median household income, 2008 $61,017 $52,029
            Per capita money income definition and source info Per capita money income, 1999 $22,711 $21,587
            Persons below poverty level, percent definition and source info Persons below poverty level, percent, 2008 13.3% 13.2%
            Business QuickFacts California USA
            Private nonfarm establishments definition and source info Private nonfarm establishments, 2007 891,9971 7,705,018
            Private nonfarm employment definition and source info Private nonfarm employment, 2007 13,771,6501 120,604,265
            Private nonfarm employment definition and source info Private nonfarm employment, percent change 2000-2007 6.9%1 5.7%
            Nonemployer establishments definition and source info Nonemployer establishments, 2007 2,757,179 21,708,021
            Total number of firms definition and source info Total number of firms, 2002 2,908,758 22,974,655
            Black-owned firms, percent definition and source info Black-owned firms, percent, 2002 3.9% 5.2%
            American Indian and Alaska Native owned firms, percent definition and source info American Indian and Alaska Native owned firms, percent, 2002 1.3% 0.9%
            Asian-owned firms, percent definition and source info Asian-owned firms, percent, 2002 12.8% 4.8%
            Native Hawaiian and Other Pacific Islander owned firms, percent definition and source info Native Hawaiian and Other Pacific Islander owned firms, percent, 2002 0.2% 0.1%
            Hispanic-owned firms, percent definition and source info Hispanic-owned firms, percent, 2002 14.7% 6.8%
            Women-owned firms, percent definition and source info Women-owned firms, percent, 2002 29.9% 28.2%

            Manufacturers shipments definition and source info Manufacturers shipments, 2002 ($1000) 378,661,414 3,916,136,712
            Wholesale trade sales definition and source info Wholesale trade sales, 2002 ($1000) 655,954,708 4,634,755,112
            Retail sales definition and source info Retail sales, 2002 ($1000) 359,120,365 3,056,421,997
            Retail sales per capita definition and source info Retail sales per capita, 2002 $10,264 $10,615
            Accommodation and foodservices sales definition and source info Accommodation and foodservices sales, 2002 ($1000) 55,559,669 449,498,718
            Building permits definition and source info Building permits, 2009 35,069 582,963
            Federal spending definition and source info Federal spending, 2008 299,922,6301 2,771,782,1522
            Geography QuickFacts California USA
            Land area definition and source info Land area, 2000 (square miles) 155,959.34 3,537,438.44
            Persons per square mile definition and source info Persons per square mile, 2000 217.2 79.6
            definition and source info FIPS Code

          • JeffH

            Well Bob, you’ll believe what you want to believe, I’ve lived there my whole life and have watched first hand the demise of California. The only thing rich about California is it’s natural resources and overall diverse beauty.

            The correlation between poor policy and poor economic results is indisputable and California is ranked at #46 by The American Legislative Exchange Council (ALEC) based on those results.

            Read more: http://www.atr.org/rich-states-poor-a4804#ixzz19Bd0SRTn

            To ALL MY CALIFORNIA FRIENDS!
            Sent: Wednesday, October 20, 2010 3:50 PM
            I don’t care who you are or what you “believe” politically, you had better take note of what is going on in California. We are already over 12% unemployment here, and if the current “thinking” in Sacramento doesn’t change, there won’t be any jobs or tax base left.

            There was a political fundraiser for Meg Whitman a short while back… At this event were several owners of manufacturing companies in the central valley(where I live). They represented hundreds, if not thousands, of jobs. They stated that if Jerry Brown wins in November, which he did, they are GONE, and taking their businesses with them to some other state. These jobs will permanently leave California. These owners say they simply cannot survive the taxes and the over regulation.

            California is no longer the Golden State, thanks mostly to the inept morons in Sacramento and their asinine policies.

            It costs a company lots of money to pull-up roots and move; a decision not to be taken lightly. The majority of these jobs and companies will never come back. The last part tells the story we, the small business owners, deal with every day.

            JOBS LEAVING CALIFORNIA-the list is just to long to cut and paste here.
            http://www.gather.com/viewArticle.action?articleId=281474978640155

            The list will grow as Sacramento considers more measures that will increase corporate

            taxes, increase workers’ comp costs, increase regulatory reporting requirements

            (along with higher fines for minor infractions), increase gasoline and diesel-fuel taxes, increase water rates, increase electric-power rates, and increase assorted fees that will cause services to become more expensive.

            Meanwhile all the elected dolts in Sacramento are planning to boycott Arizona.

            YOU CAN’T FIX STUPID!!

          • JeffH

            Well Bob Wire, you’ll believe what you want to believe, I’ve lived there my whole life and have watched first hand the demise of California. The only thing rich about California is it’s natural resources and overall diverse beauty.

            The correlation between poor policy and poor economic results is indisputable and California is ranked at #46 by The American Legislative Exchange Council (ALEC) based on those results.

            To ALL MY CALIFORNIA FRIENDS!
            Sent: Wednesday, October 20, 2010 3:50 PM
            I don’t care who you are or what you “believe” politically, you had better take note of what is going on in California. We are already over 12% unemployment here, and if the current “thinking” in Sacramento doesn’t change, there won’t be any jobs or tax base left.

            There was a political fundraiser for Meg Whitman a short while back… At this event were several owners of manufacturing companies in the central valley(where I live). They represented hundreds, if not thousands, of jobs. They stated that if Jerry Brown wins in November, which he did, they are GONE, and taking their businesses with them to some other state. These jobs will permanently leave California. These owners say they simply cannot survive the taxes and the over regulation.

            California is no longer the Golden State, thanks mostly to the inept morons in Sacramento and their asinine policies.

            It costs a company lots of money to pull-up roots and move; a decision not to be taken lightly. The majority of these jobs and companies will never come back. The last part tells the story we, the small business owners, deal with every day.

            JOBS LEAVING CALIFORNIA-the list is just to long to cut and paste here.
            http://www.gather.com/viewArticle.action?articleId=281474978640155

            The list will grow as Sacramento considers more measures that will increase corporate

            taxes, increase workers’ comp costs, increase regulatory reporting requirements

            (along with higher fines for minor infractions), increase gasoline and diesel-fuel taxes, increase water rates, increase electric-power rates, and increase assorted fees that will cause services to become more expensive.

            Meanwhile all the elected dolts in Sacramento are planning to boycott Arizona.

            YOU CAN’T FIX STUPID!!

          • Bob Wire

            Jeff, I do understand and hate whats happening to your state today. I really do. It’s sad to see and hear about. ~ There is just too many people not pulling their weight.

            I was just reading when the state has spend millions of dollars and voting redistricting is in the works with “hopes” of offering better representation for the people to your state.

            From 1300 miles away, that really doesn’t tell me much, could be good, could be bad. It could mean just about anything. The only thing certain,~ someone made some money in the process. We are left to hope they might spend it in your state of California.

            California is a rich, beautiful state and loaded with enterprising, creative and hard working people. You’ve just been overran. It’s happening to Texas as well.

            It wasn’t viewed as such a serious problem when times were better and people held to tomorrows promises of hope. But today, after a 3 1/2 year down-turn, we see these hopes as faded dreams and we all tend to be pessimistic.

            I have family there, they are very wealthy by our hillbilly standards here in Texas. Movie actors, race cars drivers/teams and such, huge homes. I don’t know how they are doing today, they are not calling to move in the spare room.

            Latest news from California; a child is born!

            A 27-year-old mother surrendered her baby girl to firefighters in Los Angeles on Christmas Eve, authorities said Saturday.

            She told firefighters at Fire Station 46 that the newborn was just six hours old. The firefighters accepted the girl, wrapping her in a blanket. She was healthy and did not appear to have been neglected or abused.

            Firefighters named the newborn Noel, in honor of the Christmas holiday, said Los Angeles Fire Department spokesman Erik Scott.

            “We are happy to state that our last report was that the infant was very healthy, and we are moved that this potentially tragic incident had a pleasant outcome,” he said. “There was a sense of relief.”

            Both the baby and mother were given identification bracelets.

            The infant was taken to an area hospital, Scott said, and would be placed in protective custody.

            In California, a parent or legal guardian can surrender a newborn at fire stations and hospital emergency rooms with no fear of arrest. The law is meant to protect infants from being hurt, neglected or killed

          • JeffH

            Bob, I know you hate labels, but California is infected with socialism from the governor down to the voters. Believe me, I love this state very much, but I cannot and will not tolerate and live with these morons and I know I’m not the brightest star in the universe but even I know that 2+2 does = 4…I, like so many others, intend to “get out of Dodge” in a year or two. When the voters continued to support Boxer, Feinstein, Pelosi and a liberal re-tread like Moonbeam Brown the message became very clear…”exit stage left’! Sometimes you just can’t fix stupid.

          • Bob Wire

            I understand Jeff, I really do. While I don’t know all that binds you, friends, family, a rich past full of sweet memories, it can’t be a pleasant thing to consider relocating. Where would one go? I always dreamed of Australia after my R&R there back in 70. A fine bunch of people and a much slower pace.

            I soured on Texas back in the mid 90′s. This was brought on by the side effects of immigration both legal and illegal and the State licensing demands and the State being selective in enforcement (an a greedy woman). They turned people like me into their Cash Cow and bled us down. I slowly developed a very sour attitude, and got myself backed up in a corner. One Sunday afternoon I laid a man down in a barroom floor for ruining my buzz. I knew it was my time to leave.

            I boarded up the house and went to the coastline, hire out in the shipyards and worked a spell. It was good to smell clean sea air, be around simple people and work on huge toys. OO RA!

            It’s didn’t help my economics much but it helped my head. Later I hired out as a deckhand/engine-room engineer on 100 ton class Utility Boats supporting offshore oil & gas interest off the US southern coastline. A shift was 12 hours and many times I see 14 to 18 hour days as these vessels operate 24/7 and fight deadlines,break-downs, wind and sea and only make-way at 14 knots. 6 weeks at sea and 2 weeks off, it would take 1 week to find your land legs and girlfriends. Sometimes I didn’t come home, I go to Mexico or Florida or New Orleans and just see and do and rest.

            Jeff, after 3 years of this hard life, I was ready to come home, be a good citizen and fight the good fight, fight the insanity I had left behind with a smile on my face.

            While things hasn’t changed a lot, I have. The state did finally start cracking down in unlicensed workers and business. I was amazed with the difference it made. I could now make a profit, a livable wage! As it was, I was competing with people who were often moonlighting and stealing from their employer and had no licenses, no insurance and offered no dependable warrants. People would use them because they were “cheap” too cheap, and I was seen as a Robber!

            There was just TOO MANY OF THEM! much like you see in your state of California today.

            There’s just to much deadwood to carry while money is being funneled off by a few, taking advantage in the pure volume of numbers.

            Where they be Republicans or Democratics, liberals or conservatives this attempt to label to determine the nature of their heart and what they might do and true intent and nature of their soul has not worked and is not working. ~ not if history tells us anything.

            My bias is for the middle, I admit that openly! what is good for the middle is good for both the top and bottom.

            What’s bad for the middle, hurts everyone, but in either case, the top always hurt the least, affected the least.

            I want to see concession made that favor middle class American today, for me this is where the rubber meets the road, I am a Democrat, my collar is Blue and my blood Red and I’m blessing to born in such a great nation. I’m not complicated .

            What do I consider the middle?~ being 400-500 million in “gross assets” and down is a good place to start in today’s world. While I know many would consider that as being rich, The truly Rich greatly exceeds this figure. It’s not too hard to have 500 million tied up and only 20 dollars in your pocket. I have known many such men as this, their money is tied up and they are constantly under the gun, feeding a payroll and paying Quarterly taxes.

          • Dan az

            Jeff
            YOU CAN’T FIX STUPID!!
            Sure you can its just illegal!

          • http://?? Joe H.

            Bob Wire,
            you said you took your R&R in Austrailia. sydney is a very beautiful city and friendly people, but they are having some of the same problems we are! Better to stay here and try to try and right some of the wrongs in our own country like we are always telling the illegals to do!
            BTW, did you get to the floating a-go-go while you were in sydney??

          • DaveH

            Yep, you have the answer all right, Bob. First you say “There is just too many people not pulling their weight” (about California), then you say “California is a rich, beautiful state and loaded with enterprising, creative and hard working people”. Make up your mind, Bob, you can’t have it both ways.
            California is in the mess it is in because of politics, nothing else. There is absolutely no natural reason for California to be in the trouble it’s in. They are portside so most trade on the West Coast goes through them. They have a mild climate with a long growing season, so agriculture should be robust. Yet, they suffer. Why? Politics, that is all. How many times have I posted the link to heritage.com/index where you could see for yourself what too much Government does to countries? Yet, you turn a blind eye to experience and prefer to believe the Hopes and Dreams that are part and parcel of the Democratic Party.
            Quit blaming the illegals for our problems, Bob. They are just a scapegoat for the plunder that is going on at the hands of Big Government.
            How Lucky It Is for Our Politicians That Americans Do Not Think.

          • Bob Wire

            “Yep, you have the answer all right, Bob. First you say “There is just too many people not pulling their weight” (about California), then you say “California is a rich, beautiful state and loaded with enterprising, creative and hard working people”. Make up your mind, Bob, you can’t have it both ways.”

            Well? ~ You confuse the state with the people in the state. You know they are not the same. There is the “container” and then the “content”.

            or to say The bag and then the $hit

            Today California is see more like 7 lbs of $hit stuffed in a 5 lb bag.

            Any other bag would have already exploded from the strain.

            Why diminish the quality of the container for it’s content? The State is wealthy! Mexico is wealthy.

            Why you wish to suggest California is “poor” as she carries a load that would cripple any other state makes little sense except to offer some bias political argument you refuse to let go of, as you feel it seems to serves you in someway. While I fail to see you argument truly serves as a good example as you attempt to lay this economic woe at only “ONE” doorstep. You a being an opportunist, a vulture, attempting to prey off the wounded and dieing with your argument and you go unopposed here except by me.

            While I’m not saying your argument without merit, I saying it greatly flawed.

            It not rocket surgery, too much deadwood, Look at how many people per square mile lives in the state and how many mouths are being feed! You wish to make light of and ignore the hard working men and women that live in California and I’m not going to let you.

            You think we can somehow “Poof” these people out of existence? To not be worried with ~ ever again?

            100 million more people then live in Arizona ! If California is poor, what does that tell us about Arizona ? That the Arizona is rich? Her two major employers being government and Walmart?

            I’m left to guess, People are see as State and people have no value , if I follow your thinking?

          • Bob Wire

            “BTW, did you get to the floating a-go-go while you were in sydney??”

            I guess I missed that Joe. ~ Stayed at the Waldorf in Wolallmoo area, down by the bay docks. Made the Zoo, across the bay, took the hydrofoil scuttle across. Lots of drinking in Kings Cross area. Did the revolving French restaurant, overlooking city and bay, the opera house was all but finished in 70.

            I wished I’d went home with an Australian family instead, there were many families who offered to welcome us into their homes. They were so many truly nice people there. I feel today, I made the wrong choice. But I was young then and no stranger to bad choices. I was just glad to be out of the jungle for a few days, sleep in a dry bed and feel,touch and listen to a round eyed woman with long legs and wide hips.

            What was the “floating a go go”? Sounds ~ hmm? interesting.

  • home boy

    sounds great. it will never happen. you seem to forget that politicians love their power and won’t give it up . so they have to pay a price for that and that’s where the big problem comes in , pay back time. we all have great ideas to make changes to help this country out but no one seems to know who really controls the world or wants to believe it. that is satan. you remember him right or did you forget he exists. he’s been in control since adam and eve. and if you don’y believe in him then you will continue to think that things will turn around . don’t be so naive. we have had 6000 years since adam and eve and look at what we’ve do to this world. i’m sure god is real happy with our accomplishments. millions killed with wars. people starving and the list goes on. this system is going down and not for the reasons you might think. satan is going to loose his power very soon and you better have you ducks in a row with god. religion is the next big thing to be destroyed by the governments. stay awake.

    • Ruby

      Merry Christmas home boy.

      God IS in control, not Satan. Satan only controls those who let him. But GOD is in control. We are definitely living during the Biblical end times; however, there are some prophecies yet to be fulfilled before Christ returns. I digress….

      Don’t forget that God has given us free will. If we choose to believe in God, Satan does not control us. He will tempt us, and bring turmoil to our life; but, if we believe in God and His power to perform miracles…etc….we will overcome these temptations and hardships.

      • Bob Wire

        Yes Ruby, God is in control and not even death matters much in the big picture. Today some worry themselves sick with “liberals and conservatives” like it was Cowboys and Indians. LOL! I can’t help but wonder about their quality of life and what might have been responsible for creating such minds? What would it be like to be a mouse in their pocket? The constant fear! of loss, of waste, of control. To not believe in ANYTHING yet yearning too.

        Like the small children rides at the amusement park, the small cars goes around and around regardless yet they come equipped with a steering wheel and horn. The horn was fun! but the steering wheel I found completely useless. Try as I may, I failed to see much correction. BUT I could sure make noise!

        When I’m being held back at a train track crossing, I’ve learned to accept these delays as being for my own good. Or when I’m approached by a gruffly dressed, worn-out panhandler, I think of God being in charge. God is guiding this person as well as I. It’s not all my burden to bear while I offer considerations.

        While I can’t change the world, I can change my thoughts and how I react to it.

        To be quite candid with you, I’ve never had less and enjoyed it more as I have this day. I’ve learned to do my best and not worry. That may well sound easy but it’s so hard to do.

        Merry Christmas, one and all.

        I have a poem that was sent to me this week I’d like to share. Don’t know who wrote it, but they did an excellent job.

        TWAS THE NIGHT BEFORE CHRISTMAS,
        HE LIVED ALL ALONE,
        IN A ONE BEDROOM HOUSE MADE OF
        PLASTER AND STONE.

        I HAD COME DOWN THE CHIMNEY
        WITH PRESENTS TO GIVE,
        AND TO SEE JUST WHO
        IN THIS HOME DID LIVE.

        I LOOKED ALL ABOUT,
        A STRANGE SIGHT I DID SEE,
        NO TINSEL, NO PRESENTS,
        NOT EVEN A TREE.

        NO STOCKING BY MANTLE,
        JUST BOOTS FILLED WITH SAND,
        ON THE WALL HUNG PICTURES
        OF FAR DISTANT LANDS.

        WITH MEDALS AND BADGES,
        AWARDS OF ALL KINDS,
        A SOBER THOUGHT
        CAME THROUGH MY MIND.

        FOR THIS HOUSE WAS DIFFERENT,
        IT WAS DARK AND DREARY,
        I FOUND THE HOME OF A SOLDIER,
        ONCE I COULD SEE CLEARLY.

        THE SOLDIER LAY SLEEPING,
        SILENT, ALONE,
        CURLED UP ON THE FLOOR
        IN THIS ONE BEDROOM HOME.

        THE FACE WAS SO GENTLE,
        THE ROOM IN SUCH DISORDER,
        NOT HOW I PICTURED
        A UNITED STATES SOLDIER.

        WAS THIS THE HERO
        OF WHOM I’D JUST READ?
        CURLED UP ON A PONCHO,
        THE FLOOR FOR A BED?

        I REALIZED THE FAMILIES
        THAT I SAW THIS NIGHT,
        OWED THEIR LIVES TO THESE SOLDIERS
        WHO WERE WILLING TO FIGHT.

        SOON ROUND THE WORLD,
        THE CHILDREN WOULD PLAY,
        AND GROWNUPS WOULD CELEBRATE
        A BRIGHT CHRISTMAS DAY.

        THEY ALL ENJOYED FREEDOM
        EACH MONTH OF THE YEAR,
        BECAUSE OF THE SOLDIERS,
        LIKE THE ONE LYING HERE.

        I COULDN’T HELP WONDER
        HOW MANY LAY ALONE,
        ON A COLD CHRISTMAS EVE
        IN A LAND FAR FROM HOME.

        THE VERY THOUGHT
        BROUGHT A TEAR TO MY EYE,
        I DROPPED TO MY KNEES
        AND STARTED TO CRY.

        THE SOLDIER AWAKENED
        AND I HEARD A ROUGH VOICE,
        ‘SANTA DON’T CRY,
        THIS LIFE IS MY CHOICE;

        I FIGHT FOR FREEDOM,
        I DON’T ASK FOR MORE,
        MY LIFE IS MY GOD,
        MY COUNTRY, MY CORPS.’

        THE SOLDIER ROLLED OVER
        AND DRIFTED TO SLEEP,
        I COULDN’T CONTROL IT,
        I CONTINUED TO WEEP.

        I WEPT FOR HOURS,
        SO SILENT AND STILL
        AND WE BOTH SHIVERED
        FROM THE COLD NIGHT’S CHILL.

        I DIDN’T WANT TO LEAVE
        ON THAT COLD, DARK, NIGHT,
        THIS GUARDIAN OF HONOR
        SO WILLING TO FIGHT.

        THEN THE SOLDIER ROLLED OVER,
        WITH A VOICE SOFT AND PURE,
        WHISPERED, ‘CARRY ON SANTA,
        IT’S CHRISTMAS DAY, ALL IS SECURE.’

        ONE LOOK AT MY WATCH,
        AND I KNEW HE WAS RIGHT.
        ‘MERRY CHRISTMAS MY FRIEND,!
        AND TO ALL A GOOD NIGHT.’

        This poem was written by a Marine.

        The following is his request. I think it is reasonable…..

        PLEASE. Would you do me the kind favor of sending
        This to as many people as you can? Christmas will be coming
        Soon and some credit is due to our U.S. Service men and
        Women for our being able to celebrate these festivities.
        Let’s try in this small way to pay a tiny bit of what we
        Owe. Make people stop and think of our heroes, living and
        Dead, who sacrificed themselves for us. Please, do your
        Small part to plant this small seed

        • http://none Mike

          Bob Thanks for that and Merry Christmas Mike L.

        • Vicki

          Thanks Bob. Merry Christmas to you and yours as well. And Happy New Year.

        • Al Sieber

          Thanks Bob, that made my day, and Merry Xmas to you and yours.

        • Bob Wire

          Glad you enjoyed it, I must say, ~ I was Christmas Shopping and in heavy traffic when this poem hit my blackberry, Too busy at the time to read it in it’s entirety, I had to stop when it brought tears to my eyes.

        • http://?? Joe H.

          Bob wire,
          I will honor your request and ask one of my own. If any of you have a flag pole in your front yard, put a yellow ribbon bow on it to let the troops know we all are praying for their safe return. I have had one on mine for the last seven years and will have one till every troop is home from the war zones!! May God Bless our troops!!!

        • Bob Wire

          I sure do Joe, and I haven’t the yellow ribbon but that will be corrected tomorrow. Thanks Joe

    • BobbyB

      6000 years? So people actually believe that? I’m. That’s right, I forgot Satan planted all the evidence that makes that total and complete BS

      • old white guy

        bb, 6000 could be 6 million or 6 billion. the concept of millions and billions was not known. to an infinite God a billion years would be nothing or a day.

        • independant thinker

          Actually the Bible references that thought. I do not have the chapter and verse in front of me but the Bible says “A day with God is like a thousand years and a thousand years like a day.”

          • http://none Mike

            Thats in Genises Independent. I will look it up in a bit but I think its in chapter 3. The early bible has been one of the hardest to reconsile with the science of today. I belive the early chapters of the bible may have been adaptations from much older scrolls. But I guess we might never know untill we get to meet him face to face and ask. Mike L.

          • Effin Reed Tard

            That’s in 2 Peter Chapter 3 …. verse 8

            3Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,

            4And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.

            5For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:

            6Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:

            7But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.

            8But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

            9The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

            10But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

            11Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,

        • http://none Mike

          Yea!!!! I am not the only one who thinks that. We try to cram god in our box of time though and this has lead to alot of fundementalist beliefs.Thanks Old white guy for makeing my day. Mike L.

          • Bob Wire

            It’s becoming more and more clear as the data keeps coming forward, that we are in the ( very least) second telling of the history of man.

            Such notions might seem profound but it really shouldn’t be.

            There is plenty of room for God “IN” Science. I don’t find any conflict, of course I’m a buffet Christian and don’t mind the ridicule by those that take offense. (LIKE MY FAMILY!)

            Like a child we tell, “Don’t touch that! It will burn you!” ~ God does man the same way and man wants to “Know Why”

            The explanations of “how & why” are missing! These are the answers that mankind has always searched for since the first bite of the forbidden fruit of knowledge and has separated himself for the rest of the animal kingdom. No longer to live in the garden of blissful acceptance.

      • TIME

        BobbyB,

        I must say that we as the race we have become have been around far longer than 6000 years.
        I say that based on Puma Punku alone, of what is only one area that has yielded physical proof that there was a far more advanced social structure over 25 thousand years ago that we know nothing about.

        Is it not strange how the finds in the Indian Ocean in the early 2000′s have been completely held back from the public view?
        Yes folks they found under 50′ to 100′ plus feet of depth not only tools but machines made from Metal, that by the way carbon date back some 20 thousand Plus years.

        I am not saying that Adam and both of his wife’s didn’t exist, I am saying that there’s a TON of intel you don’t know about or that modern science will not allow you to fully grasp.
        As well the contoling factors of world powers that want you in the dark about what has been as well what may come.
        POWER & CONTROL are very hard to let go of.

        Always ask BOLD questions and never hold anything as solid truths based on the intel we have been given. We are but rats on a wheel.
        Sometimes things are far more vast in nature than you can fathom, and yet other times things are as simple as they look.

        • home boy

          your assuming that the way man measures time is correct. some came up with a way to measure years . you don’t question that . what if that measurement is wrong. man is imperfect . god is not. if you use the numbers of the age of people mention in the bible and you go from adam to jesus its about 4000 years .adam was created in the six days mention of creation. so if adam was first and you then follow your bible to jesus you will get 4000 years. it al comes down to faith . either you believe or you don’t. i’ll stick with god.

          • TIME

            Home Boy,
            ( No disrespect ) but – Faith really has little to do with truths.
            As well Faith is somewhat of an “individual” thing not something of the mass.
            Faith is when your soul is touched by the devine in a way that defies all logic. I have found that, and its been quite a long trip. Thus my Faith may not be the same as what others may note as their Faith.

            When you stand in the ground that I have noted, you learn very fast that many times that round hole just will not take a square peg.
            But as I have a firm belief that God is within everything ~ even you have a touch of God that courses throught your viens, aka a child of God created in his image.
            That alone should make one think, afterall there are Chinese, Japanese, Africans, South Americans, Whites from Europe, Arabic people, Indians from India, American Native, strange how they don’t all look the same so one has to think that there is a reason for that, what could it be? Again it comes back to be open to see that sometimes things are not always what we are told they are.

            Be that as it may, I don’t care what Faith one follows, thats what Freedom is all about your free to feel any way you wish.
            But when I am asked to follow blindly and act in an obedient way to other MEN, I will stand back and just say; No Thanks.

            I have traveled the world over the years of my life and have seen things with my own eyes that have brought me to the point of a better understanding of how I feel about God.
            I am sure thats why he gave us all “free will” to be able to explore as well to understand.

            Have you ever seen the Shroud of Christ?
            If not put it on your to do list, I gurantee you it will blow your mind. Not like anything you have ever seen or done before, its beyond any words I can post.

            On that note May you have a Merry Christmas.

          • http://none Mike

            home boy and Time, Some mysteries will have to wait on us to meet him face to face and ask. But like Time I am of the opinion that we were given free will to be able to understand the mystries of his creation. And this creation does not just include us or this planet but all the wonders of creation from here to the vast reaches of space and time. I have allways said if he had wanted a race of sheep(blind followers)that is what we would have been. Mike L.

          • Bob Wire

            Seems we can make both our faith and our truth.

            Wide is the path and narrow the way.

            You can be wrong and it’s okay, but there will be roads you may never pass.

          • http://none Mike

            Home Boy, You forget the story of people like Moses and Methusla in the bible if you take the route that says people back then lived a short a span of years as we do now. Its pretty well documented that Methusla lived over a 900year span and Enock may have been even older than him. Moses may have lived as long as 500 years. Who is to say that Adam and Eve with their perfect DNA could not have lived into the millions of years. God created Adam( hebrew first man)and Eve, We never really get the story of how long they lived in the garden of eden before they fell from grace. Another question that has never been answerd is the fact that Cain when cast out went into the wilderness and came back with a wife? How?We certinly can conclude he did not marry a beast of the field. That leads me to belive there might have been whole chapters skipped. Between Creation and the fall of man from grace. These things will all be answerd one day either in this life or the next. Me I am happy with the idea that we were created by god. And in his creation of us he gave us minds and free will. And I for one intend to use what was given to me to the best of my abilities. And live my life according to his princaples. Mike L.

          • Vicki

            We do have a paradigm to help us understand how the world could have been created 6000 years ago but seem to be millions of years old. It is science fiction but it does open up interesting possibilities.

            MMORPGs like World of Warcraft. Less then 6 years old but while in the world (Azeroth) it would appear to be many millions of years old. Complete with ancient artifacts. (Yes they actually have archeology as a profession in that game)

          • http://none Mike

            Vicki, What server are you on I have charecters on several servers. Mike L.

          • Will-CA

            Most people think the Bible says Earth is only 6000 years old. That’s just another deception of Satan. Too many references in Genesis. Like existing cities number one like the one Cain became King of. A day of God is 1000 years to man. The Bible is talking of this earth age.

            Great post everyone.
            Merry Christmas

        • Karolyn

          Very interesting, Time. Atlantis anyone? In reading “Conversations with God,” mention is made of previous highly advanced civilizations that destroyed themselves with misuse of technology and loss of “what the world needs now”….Love.

    • DaveH

      I disagree, Home Boy. New Zealand bit the bullet and made the right changes over the last 20 years. With our past history of Free Markets and Individual Freedom, we still have enough people who remember the benefits of Freedom to do the same.

  • Dave

    I am not so sure taxes had much to do with the growth in the states with the largest growth. All of the fastest-growing states are warm weather states, with the exception of Idaho. Many of the fastest-growing states have large numbers of illegal aliens or oil. Texas, of course, is warm, has a large number of illegal aliens, and floats on a sea of oil.

    • FlaJim

      Perhaps we in the Southern states with no state income tax have clearer heads due to the warmer weather. If high taxes are such a boon, why are businesses relocating from CA as fast as they can, along with its residents who brought the impending state bankruptcy upon themselves?

      • http://?? Joe H.

        FlaJim,
        Here’s hoping they don’t export it to your part of the country!!! If all those people that brought it on themselves move to other areas of the States, and don’t learn their lesson, then YOUR state could be next!!! Think about it!

        • Dan az

          Joe
          Thats exactly what happened here. After they voted in the same old laws then they started leaving and left us to clean up there mess.

          • http://?? Joe H.

            Dan az,
            that’s what worries me. As it gets too expensive for them to live in California, they will start to migrate to other parts of the country. When they do this they will want the freebies they had there so they will start voting progressive in the local and state elections and spread their disease in other states as well!!

    • Ruby

      That’s probably a contributing factor, but a minor one. I have a brother in Dallas, and the weather is NOT what he based his decision to retire there was. It was a strong economy and lower real estate prices than California (specifically, San Jose). He knew that he and his wife would not be able to survive on their retirement income with ever increasing taxes (of every shape and form).

      Let’s examine Texas weather:

      Softball size hail storms that bring down entire structures – oh wow…I’m missing out not living there…warm weather and all.

      Oh, yeah…it snows in Texas, too. We grew up in San Antonio, and I have childhood memories of snow on the ground.

      Warm weather…OMG…it’s down right HOT. The heat index will give you a stroke, if you’re not careful. The few days we have sticky, stifling, humid heat here in San Jose, CA, I’m sweltering.

      If anything has kept me from moving to Texas, it’s the weather.

      So, maybe you should re-examine your thoughts and take a good, honest look at why states like Texas have such a strong economy.

      • http://?? Joe H.

        Ruby,
        The heat here in Ohio isn’t bad, it’s the humidity!! It’ll kill ya!! Then in the winter you have anywhere from a slight dusting to a couple feet or more of snow!!! I’d love that hail in Texas, especially around the gulf and it’s fishing!!! That’s the only saving grace here is the fishing. the great lakes offer some of the best fishing in the Continental states!! I fished in Michigan and walked up the bank with three Salmon and had over 100 Lbs of fish!!!

    • Kim

      Hahahaha…you really think SD is a warm weather state???

    • Karolyn

      I moved to SC over five years ago strictly because of low property cost and low taxes. Without exception, the people I have talked to who moved from up north and California came here for the same reasons, especially those who are retired. There are also quite a few people who moved here from their retirement homes in Florida because they had become tired of the hurricanes. The weather was a consideration; but the way things have been going, it seems like it is getting colder here every winter and warmer every summer. Taxes are low; however, the state charges for everything. Where I paid nothing for a Sales Tax license in NJ, it costs $75 in SC. There is also a higher sales tax, which is also charged on clothing and some food, which was not the case in NJ. Right now I only pay $400 to rent a 3 bedroom mobile home, which would cost at least $1000 in Jersey. However, food costs more. People I know who own property are only paying maybe $1200 per year on 30 acres and a four bedroom house. In Jersey, depending on where it was, tax on property like that would run way up there. A woman I knew in Jersey had an old stone mill turned into a house on a postage stamp lot and paid $12000 per year.

    • DaveH

      I live in the Arizona mountains (certainly not hot here). Most of the population in my area came from Sunny California, where property taxes are double ours, and income taxes are also much higher. It sure isn’t warmer here than in California. I know why I came here – To escape the growing Socialism in California. Also, Arizona is a right to work state, so many of the Californians who have come to Phoenix (where it is indeed hot) came here to get jobs.

  • Conservative at Birth

    We must continue to hold their feet to the fire. November 2nd 2010 was just the begining. A republican form of govvernment only works if the citizenry is involved at all levels. But, just in case keep your powder dry.

  • Al Sieber

    I would like to wish every one on this website a very Merry and safe Christmas.

    • Al Sieber

      Except Robert Smith, he might get offended and sue me.

      • TIME

        LMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

      • DaveH

        Yes, How dare you give Robert a Christmas greeting, Al. Maybe it makes him unhappy because he wants to celebrate all year round with other peoples’ money.

        • DaveH

          Merry Christmas, Al and Time.

          • TIME

            Dave Ditto!

          • Al Sieber

            Merry Xmas to you DaveH, TIME,Jeff,Dan,Claire,Angel,Kate8,Karolyn,sc,JC, and whoever else I missed, Mike, Mick,B.Wire, Vigilant,Vicki,Dr. Mabuse, especially Bob Livingston and Chip Wood who made this all possible, almost forgot eddie47d.

      • Dan az

        You to brother and Dave what part of the north are you in?Best wishes to all of you be safe!

      • http://?? Joe H.

        Al sieber,
        Al let him! We’ll take up a collection for your defense fund and sue for reverse discrimination and bridging the free and open expression of our religeon!!! Not to mention sueing him for just generally being an A$$HOLE!!!

        • Al Sieber

          JoeH, Merry Christmas to you also I know I missed someone. I might need a defense fund after this. Oh! yeah to Robert Smith too, What the hell, sue me.

    • Mick

      Al Sieber says:
      December 24, 2010 at 8:00 am
      I would like to wish every one on this website a very Merry and safe Christmas.

      &&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&
      And a very Merry Christmas to you and yours AL…
      Plan on visiting your little town again in the late spring…..Mick

      • Al Sieber

        Mick, let me know when. I don’t live in town, about 6 miles outside, and 2 miles of dirt road (mud now). get a lot of rain up there?

        • Mick

          Al Sieber says:
          Mick, let me know when. I don’t live in town, about 6 miles outside, and 2 miles of dirt road (mud now). get a lot of rain up there?

          **************************

          Al…I will let you know…..Maybe we can have a beer together ( My drink of choice ) or what ever you’re drinking…….
          Hey,,,,,Are they still thinning the the herd of burros up there ?

          • Al Sieber

            Mick, there’s plenty of burros here, too many, they come around my place all the time and react havoc, bring a trailer and I’ll give you a few, the BLM sells them for $25.00. we have some broke for packing up into the mountains, and plan on getting some horses and mules. a cold beer always sounds good.

    • http://none Mike

      Merry Christmas guys. Even Robert. Though he just might burst into flames now. :) He may eventually climb out of that box. Mike L.

      • DaveH

        I think he’s too far gone, Mike. He maybe even feeds at the trough, in which case there is no way to save him.
        I can only think of a few who lean left on this board that might be savable. Karolyn is one.

        • JeffH

          Gotta’ agree with ya’ ’bout Karolyn DaveH.

          Have a Merry Christmas ans a Happy New Year!

  • HomeOfTheBrave

    Oh please please please, people, save our children, save our country by eliminating this cancer from our government first. Department of Education (true name Department of Re-education). No Funding. Tell your representatives. Return Education to each State like it used to be, and reclaim citizen, parental direction and control. Eliminating that operational tool of the destroyers, would scare them mightily. The socialist communist weirdos will see a vacant landscape on their future troop horizon. Nobody would be the intended re or un educated fools/tools for their use. We can do this!! Reclaim our kids!! Protect them!! Provide intelligent educational system determined by citizens in each State. You know how that works, it’s competition. Each State wants to provide the highest level of education compared to their neighbors. That’s how we are. Good ol’ competition and yet cooperation to get ‘er done. ATTACK the “Department” of Education!!! It’s the best form of defense for our children, and our country’s future. The other Depts will domino.

    • Mick

      HomeOfTheBrave

      I am with you 100% but don’t hold your breath the educational system has managed to braiwash so many in our society that even many conservatives fell for it…………. very sad….

  • http://com i41

    home boy, I don’t quite follow your statement of, what we do to the world? I can understand about the millions killed by “dictators and leader” of the human race. The marxist muslim moron in Cheif, is on another vaction again, and idoit is playing pasture pool and depending on his socialist czars. I guess the jobs creation laser focus, was just some more shucking and street jive! He just gave away the store to Russia with the START Teaty. Russia keeps thousands of nuke weapons and we get a hundred, and we cann’t develope any new tecknology. Glad Omoron and his socalist Sec of State Hillary aren’t buying for any business in the real world. The socialist dems want the UN to control everything any way, after giving up and agreeeing to hand over our soveriegity.

    • Al Sieber

      i41, the U.N. agenda is to take away all private property and put us in cities to control and keep track of us. we can’t let this happen. Merry X Mass.

  • JC

    Taxation is theft to begin with. How can anyone or anything function and grow while living in a state of psychotic extortion policies?
    Taxation robs Peter to pay Paul, leaving Peter without capital toi expand and hire, and turning Paul into a dependant slave.
    The Fractional Reserve / Fiat Currency / Unnaportioned Tax, Keynesian system is so absolutely and completely flawed that it can only be endorsed by those parasites who would lose their political positions without it. It is a system of control and theft, the subtlety of which would have astounded Hitler and Stalin. They would have embraced it for sure.

  • joe sun

    EducATION WILL ONLY WORK IF THE TRUTH IS TAUGHT. iF THE GOVERNMENT DECIDES WHAT IS TAUGHT WHAT TRUTH WILL U HEAR wE THE PEOPLE NEED TO DEMAND THE TRUTH BE TOLD,EVEN IF WE CAN NOT HANDLE IT,i THINK THE PEOPLE CAN HANDLE IT ok.

  • James

    I think what Mr. Livingston is suggesting is another Declaration of Independence. However, this time it would be “The Federalists are Coming! The Federalists are Coming! (not the British).

  • DaveH

    Right on Bob Livingston!

  • Dan on left coast

    Nov 2 sealed California as the state that will take it in the shorts for our Great Nation. Jerry (Moonbeam) Brown, Barbara Boxer and the rest of the Socialists, the Uneducated California voters put in charge, will show the rest of this Great Nation what a Liberal, Socialist agenda will produce. The People’s Republic of California will go under and when that happens the Citizens of this Great Nation will react and take back our Country. LOCK AND LOAD the new War of Independence has been born!

    • DaveH

      Yeah, I can’t believe they put Jerry Brown back in. Now, if we can just keep the Federal Government from bailing out California, so that it can become a shining example of the failure of Socialist policies.

      • JeffH

        Good luck with that. I heard last night that Arnie has now offered his services to Obama if there is a spot for him. He helped California so much just imagine what his impact would be on the rest of the country.

        • http://?? Joe H.

          JeffH,
          don’t like to say this on this of all days, but frock Arnie. Let him starve on the procedes of his movies!!

  • http://yahoo thomas

    You are a freakin nut!

    • Dan on left coast

      No! Not Nuts, Just realistic

  • Donald

    Government has grown under both Democratic and Republican administrations. So, if you want smaller government, who ya gonna vote for?

    • Dan on left coast

      You are correct! Myself, I dislike Socialist Party “1″ and Socialist Party “2″ and I am not sure about “3″ as of yet.

    • DaveH

      The answer is simple, Donald, Vote Libertarian!
      We are the most principled party there is. We don’t excuse Government from the basic laws of morality (theft, lying, killing) like the other parties do. We believe that our natural (or God-Given) rights give us control of our own bodies and property. We believe that under no circumstances do we have the right to ride on other peoples’ unwilling backs. We believe in FREEDOM, not the kind of Freedom that Democrats or Republicans believe in (that is, you’re free to do things their way).
      For Individual Freedom, Personal Responsibility, Free Markets, and Limited Government:
      http://libertarianparty.org/platform

    • Vicki

      Vote Libertarian. Its the only way to be sure.
      http://www.lp.org

  • Bob

    Well as an ex New Yorker and a present Utah resident I can certainly say I agree. We went from $9k in taxes in 1998 to $875 for a new home that was even nicer. My son who lives in the same town is now paying just under $20k for a similar house as our NY home.

    We saw an enormous increase of California exodus home buyers before and after the crash. They all claimed it was becoming impossible to live in Ca.

    I don’t blame the people who live in Ca entirely. I have many friends who are pissed at the politicians who cater to le squeakiest wheel. The problem in the conservative mindset. We are inherently modest whereas the libs are screaming weenies. Guess whose wheel gets greased?

    • Dan on left coast

      Property Taxes in California are really not to bad because of the Conservative backlash during Moonbeams first reign. The people passed what is best known as Prop 13 to stem the tide of increasing Property Taxes and it has worked. The Socialists have been been on the attack every since to over turn our Constitutional Amendment. Their first reaction, to the will of the People, was to eliminate anything and everything the People were willing to pay Taxes for. Things like the Police, Fire protection, Libraries, Road Construction, Street Lights, School Sports, School Supplies for our Children and anything else to hurt the people and Moonbeam was their poster child then and will be again. Property Taxes are not the only Tax (theft) the Socialist use to enslave the people. Here in California we have the highest Sales Tax, Business Tax, Income Tax, Automobile Tax, Gas Tax, and Corp Tax in the Nation and they want more. Giving the Government more Taxes to boost the economy is like giving a drunk a six pack of beer so they will stop drinking. This State is run by the Liberal, Socialist Special Interests and Moonbeam owes them his soul. Wake up America we are under attack from within!

      • DaveH

        Your last sentence is key, Dan. While Big Government diverts the citizens attention to the danger from without, the real danger comes from within. That is almost always the case in history. Very few countries have fallen to outright attack from outside. Even the minority outside attackers are usually invited in by factions within the attacked country.
        We need to wake up to that fact and realize that both the Socialist factions and the Military State factions are milking the rest of us for everything they can. That’s what leaders do – grow their power and perks. Thomas Jefferson knew that:
        “The natural progress of things is for liberty to yield and government to gain ground” – Thomas Jefferson.

  • Vigilant

    From Dick Morris:

    High taxes kill states. There can be no better evidence than the 2010 Census. The states that lost House seats — because they’re shrinking, relative to the nation — had taxes 27 percent higher than the ones that gained seats.

    Of the seven states that don’t have a personal income tax, four (Texas, Florida, Nevada and Washington) account for eight of the 12 seats apportioned to the fastest-growing states.

    New York and Ohio lost two more seats. Other losers — down one each — are Massachusetts, Missouri, Michigan, New Jersey, Pennsylvania, Illinois, Louisiana and Iowa. What do they all have in common? High taxes.

    Texas, with the second lowest taxes in the nation, gained four seats, Florida picked up two and Arizona, Georgia, Nevada, South Carolina, Utah, and Washington state each gained one. All have low taxes.

    The states that lost seats ranked an average of 24th in taxes and had an average tax burden of $2,267 per capita (weighted more toward the states that lost more than one seat).

    The states that gained seats ranked an average of 39th in taxes and had an average tax burden (weighted) of $1,788 — 27 percent lower than the losing states.

    People vote with their feet and flee to low-tax states. It’s not the climate; it’s the taxes.

    • http://none Mike

      Yes Vigilant, Here in Tennessee we were the last on that list for a reason. We have a couple of turn coat republicans that have made people a little more leary of us. Funny thing is when we had Mr. Bredasen as a governer a democrat none the less though a conservitive one we were actually growing a bit faster. Mike L.

  • http://elliesmiles@hotmail.com Stuck in NY

    We must be vigilant and embrace all those who favor smaller government by electing officials who prove their loyalty to the constitution and follow it completely. Actions speak louder than rhetoric. Wishing everyone at Personal Liberty and its readers a very Merry Christmas and a healty and Happy New Year.

  • Mick

    Stuck in NY says:
    December 24, 2010 at 10:56 am
    We must be vigilant and embrace all those who favor smaller government by electing officials who prove their loyalty to the constitution and follow it completely. Actions speak louder than rhetoric. Wishing everyone at Personal Liberty and its readers a very Merry Christmas and a healty and Happy New Year.

    ******************************************
    Totally agree with you Stuck in NY…….
    Merry christmas and a happy new-Year to you too.

  • Joel

    I believe Bush got national government employees a raise to make it more equal to commercial pay.

    Taxes pay for a lot of government services.

  • Jeremy Leochner

    I feel I must state I disagree with Mr Livingston. On certain things such as bringing the troops home I agree but cutting such things as the National Endowment for the Arts, the Food and Drug Administration seems extreme. For one thing the endowment is a major source of funding and support for art programs all across the country. Without it numerous museums and schools could be deprived of funding for their art programs. Artistic expression is an important quality for people and to weaken such a thing seems a tad to far. And as for The Food and Drug Administration I would simply like to point out it is the job of the administration to moniter means of production of food and medicines and to analyze the final products to make sure they’re safe for public consumption. Without the administration corporations could simply make a product and sell it on the market and the only ones who could tell the public the quality of the product would be the corporation themselves. I simply feel when it comes to food and drugs I dont neccessarily feel the company that makes and sells the food and drugs should be the only ones in charge of making sure their product is safe. I think we need an unbiased third party. I believe taxes are important for our national inferstructure and important to maintaining standards of education, public health and safty. The way Mr Livingston speaks makes it seem like all taxes are bad. I dont know if thats how he feels but his argument makes that seem to be the case. I wish to simply point out to Mr Livingston that many essiential programs are funded by the Income Taxes and that the Federal Reserve is a major institution for allocating that funding and without either that funding could be lost. I believe companies and corporations are necessary and important and we should be buisness friendly. But we cant allow corporations to run wild without any restrictions or they may be tempted to take advantage of the consumers and the people.

    • DaveH

      And I must disagree with you, Jeremy. Art is a very personal taste. I don’t want government spending my money on Art. Get it? MY MONEY. If your artists can’t produce something marketable then they can go bust like companies across the country do when their products are not desirable. You have no right to force your pet spending on the rest of us.
      And you just think the FDA protects us. In reality many life-saving drugs have never made it to market because the FDA requirements are extremely costly. And then the Liberals come along and whine when those companies who do stick their necks way out make a big profit.
      As far as food poisoning or other such things, no company in their right minds want that. It results is massive lawsuits and avoidance of their products which often leads to failure of the company. What the FDA does do is cost us all a lot of money which could have been spent building more robust company infrastructure to make safer products, but instead has been diverted to the FDA so they can throw even more obstacles in the way of productive companies, and cause our food prices to go ever higher.
      Get thee some knowledge, Jeremy:
      http://mises.org/daily/1805

      • DaveH

        Note that Kessler was a Republican.

      • JeffH

        My mother was a fine artist, studied and paid her way without any government assistance and I would have backed her against any artist in the world for her pure talent. When birthdays and Christmas rolled around I always told her I’d rather have her artwork over any other present she could give me, she was that good. In 1971 or ’72 she had the only pastel portrait that was accepted for the California State Fair. Her ceramic dolls rivaled the best in the world and she made them herself, painted and the clothing…just beautifull. She did watercolor, pastels, oil, ceramics, stained glass…her talent was limitless. God rest her soul!

      • Vicki

        DaveH writes
        “I don’t want government spending my money on Art. Get it? MY MONEY.”

        And when you consider some of the p i s s that passes for art that government wasted OUR money on, it makes me even more annoyed.

        Art is in the eyes of the beholder. Let them use their own money if they like it so much.

      • Jeremy Leochner

        Dave I work and pay taxes. I have no doubt what raising taxes does and I dont want fruitless wasteful spending. But as you said art is in the eye of the beholder but art isnt a product to marketed. Its a treasured expression of knowledge. As for the FDA its responsible for giving consumers a voice against corporations who dont meet safty standards. In most situations lawsuits dont work or they are overwhelmed by the corporations massive amounts of money and expert lawyers. And bear in mind the bigger a corporation gets the less competition there is. Their products may not be safe but their the only place that sells that product. If higher prices means the guarantee that our food is safe I feel its a neceassry but benificial burden. And for the sake of argument Dave the FDA exsists so that lawsuits arent necceasry. If standards didnt exsist it would be easy for CEOs to push the envelope on safty standards if it saves time and money. And while yes people can stop buying the product but look at McDonalds as an example. Countless documentaries and lectures have been made on the horrible things in McDonalds food. Lawsuits have been made against the company over the quality of its food but that certainly hasent hurt McDonalds profits. I guess what im saying is without the FDA I am simply buying food and drugs with only the company to tell me its safe. At least with the FDA I know someone or some group has analyzed and inspected the product to make sure it meets standards before I consume it. Id rather have the bad products stopped before someone consumes it and has to file a lawsuit.

        • DaveH

          Your treasure, Jeremy, not mine. You spend your money the way you want. Leave your hands off my money. Funny that you worry about those Big Bad Corporations that Might rip you off, and then turn around and Force me to buy what you think I should buy. I will take the Big Bad Corporations, Jeremy, and leave you, thank you.

        • DaveH

          Note, Jeremy, that you had me fooled with your first comment. I thought maybe you were a person who really wanted to learn, but after reading your second comment, I could see that you really just want to spread the same kind of fear-mongering propaganda that any of us could get by tuning into MSNBC or any other of the myriad propaganda news services.
          Maybe I’m wrong. Maybe you really would like to learn but you are struggling to shed the years of propaganda that we have all been subjected to by the Public Schools and by the sycophantic news services. If so, I am reprinting a link that I often give in my comments for people who learn by experience (theirs or others’). This site ranks countries based on their Economic Freedom (level of regulation) and anybody who wants to learn can clearly see that more regulations equal more poverty. For information on how a certain country achieved their ranking just click on the country name:
          http://heritage.org/index/Ranking

          And it’s funny to me, Jeremy, that you use McDonald’s as your example because I quit going to McDonald’s decades ago because I didn’t think their food was nutritious enough for me or my kids. Problem solved. I didn’t need to hire an overpaid government worker to solve my problem.

          • Jeremy Leochner

            Dave I assure you I have no desire to spread propaganda or fear mongering. I have always tried to listen to various arguments on this subject and form a reasonable postition. For one thing the primary reason I support government regulation is that if a politician becomes corrupt or acts incompetent we the people can force them out. Corporations have the power to protect their own even in the face of public outrage as shown by the hearings and questionings of various wall street CEOS and the gigantic bonuses they continue to give out. With the government their oath is to the people. With CEOs and corporations it to profits and their shareholders. I dont mean to generalize and discredit but I feel more trusting for a politician I can voted out to a CEO I cannot. As for your source its true about economic freedom. However I must point out that above the United States in economic freedom were Canada, Switzerland, Ireland, and Australlia. All countries procliamed and ridiculed by ardent capitilists as socialist countries that control their economy. Those countries according to your source offer more freedom then our country. The system for Canada is the one I believe in and I think we could have something like that here and it would improve our economy greatly.

          • JeffH

            Jeremy, this statement by you is the reason you should know not to put your faith in politicians…”the primary reason I support government regulation is that if a politician becomes corrupt or acts incompetent we the people can force them out.”

            Pelosi and Reid, Barney Frank…so much for voting corruption out of government. That is a ludicrous statement.

            I understand that you don’t like corporations, but don’t let it cloud just plain old common sense.

          • Jeremy Leochner

            Jeff that was an election result. It can be undone in another election. If the politician is corrupt and the people can be inspired the politician can be removed. I guess I was incorrect, I guess I should say I trust the political system over the corporate system. I know how overwhelming a task it may seem to get corruption out but I believe thats why our republic is so important. If the people can work together and exercise their right to vote we can make this government of by and for the people. The problem I have with corporations is if the corporation is not related to the public sector or if theres no government oversight corporations can hide behind money, lawyers and their profits. They can say they are to big to fail, or they can bribe people with authority to help them. I know that makes it seem like authority cant be trusted. But in our country the people are the final authority. We dont always get it right as shown by your examples but I think in the next election we could do better, and hey if the politician becomes truly corrupt or incompetent we can vote for a recall. Its hard to get done but I think its possible, in a corporate system we have no power to directly get rid of incompetent or corrupt CEOs. At least with politicians when push comes to shove we can force them out. I am an idealist Jeff and you would probably think im a dreamer but I assure you I have some common sense. Perhaps we can just debate how much I do or dont have.

          • JeffH

            Jeremy, your whole arguement is built on “if”. If I hit the Mega Lotto I would be rich. If I hadn’t robbed the bank I wouldn’t be in prison. If people paid attention to the corruption taking place in our government we wouldn’t be having this conversation.
            Sorry pal, you can believe what you want, “if” you could open your mind a bit more you’d be able to see the err of your thoughts.

          • http://?? Joe H.

            Jeremy,
            Two things.
            One If I hate the bottles of piss with statues of Jesus in them, then why should I pay tax money to support these people that insult my religeon? Have you even researched as to what the endowment is calling art??
            Two, almost all of the food contamination cases we have had in the US have been in places that the USDA has inspected BEFORE the problems arose!! now they want to shut down small farmers so that we can’t can?? There have been far less cases of botulism in home canned products han commercially canned even WITH the governments inspection! Now tell me which one you would want to take a chance on. I already know my choice

          • http://?? Joe H.

            Jeremy,
            One other thing while I’m thinking of it. those corporations didn’t say they were too big to fail the government did! Bush and nobama own that line all the way!!!

          • DaveH

            You just don’t get it do you, Jeremy? If you don’t like what Big Government is offering you are dependant on getting tens of millions of voters to agree with you and vote them out 2 to 6 years later. If you don’t like a company’s products, you don’t buy them, you vote with your wallet – Immediately. Get it?
            Quit seeking protection from your lack of initiative with my wallet.

    • Karolyn

      I too agree about funding for th arts. Without art, we are really doomed. Havng worked in nonprofit arts, I know how hard it is. Most artists do not support themselves with their work. Small museums have an especially hard time, especially nowadays. When it comes to donations, the arts is on the bottom of the list after human services. The schools are sorely lacking in arts funding to the detriment of any budding artists out there. The greatest societies have been judged by their art as well as other contributions to the world. Without art, the world would be a sorry place to live. As far qas the FDA is concerned, if it was truly unbiased, it would probably be a good agency. However, being in the pocket of Big Pharma and Big Agri, it is a real disappointment. As it stands, the FDA is primarily a marketer for big business, pushing out small business to make way for the big guys to corner the markets.

      • JC

        Who funded the French Renaissance?

        • Karolyn

          There were a lot less artists out for a piece of the pie then JC. The ones that made it had benefactors.

          • DaveH

            Then be a benefactor, Karolyn. But when you vote for Government to take my money for your Art you are just voting for a very large gang to steal my money. Don’t support gangs, Karolyn.

          • JC

            What kind of benefactors? Government? private?

          • Karolyn

            Well, of course, the greatest benefactors in those times were the Kings, Queens and other nobility. They were the only ones with money.

          • DaveH

            Exactly, Karolyn. And you are unwittingly enabling our Political Class to achieve that same kind of unearned stature by allowing them to spend our money for things we don’t desire.

          • DaveH

            Karolyn,
            Here is a good article on the public funding of art. Think about it:
            http://mises.org/freemarket_detail.aspx?control=183

          • JC

            And the Kings and Queens commissioned art to serve there own vanity.
            I’m not willing to allow that our government is a monarchy, that I am a subject to be fleeced, nor that we should have a dependant class known as artists that I am supposed to support over the interests of my own family or community.
            I am not a communist.

          • DaveH

            My favorite line from the above posted Link:
            “The payoff of tax-funded art cannot be verified, and is suspect on principle. Government interference with the market–job training, keeping loggers from trees–is almost always called “investing in America’s future.” If that is what it is, America needs a new broker, since she is currently [$13.9] trillion in debt”.
            Note that I updated the national debt in brackets.

          • Karolyn

            What about art in the schools? Every child should be given the opportunity to be exposed to art, just as much as being exposed to other professions and subjects. The world without museums would be a sorry place. Performing arts events already charge too much for tickets. Without adequate funding, only the wealthy will be able to attend performances.

          • DaveH

            Karolyn,
            Did you read the article I posted the link to? Read it, please. Learn how to be the best thinker on your block.
            Free markets take care of those things. If you wanted your kids to learn art, you could send them to a school that taught those things (Freely).
            In Free Markets, the desirable art thrives. In Unfree Markets, the undesirable art can thrive at the expense of that art which people would desire, because people only have so much money. The money that is diverted from the economy to support undesirable art keeps money from going to the art which people appreciate.
            Besides that economic reality, the fact still remains that it is not the Government peoples’ money to spend on their pet projects. It is OUR money.

          • Karolyn

            Dave – Yes, i did read the article. Yes, you do have some valid points. All of this is a lot for me to wrap my head around, but I will be pondering.

          • JC

            Karolyn, that you’re willing to ponder allows
            for some hope for you. :)
            More government is “never” the answer.

      • Vicki

        Karolyn writes:
        “I too agree about funding for th arts. Without art, we are really doomed. Havng worked in nonprofit arts, I know how hard it is. Most artists do not support themselves with their work. ”

        Remember the part about stealing MY MONEY at gunpoint for your favorite charity. The holidays have not changed my mood about theft.

        • JC

          And theft is exactly what it is. I’ve seen what some people call art and I am not impressed. Certainly not impressed enough to pay for it.

      • 45caliber

        There is art and there is ART. The real problem with the way the government money is spent on art is that most of the money goes to the people who decide where it should go. If an artist can’t make a living at his/her art, then it should be a hobby. And if they can’t do that, we can do without the art. Most people who like art will support the art they like. If people don’t like the art (such as “PissChrist”) then the artist should have to find another line of work. The money the government spends on art actually goes to a bare remnant of the art world; most artists don’t get any. Thomas Kincade is a good example; he doesn’t get a penny from the government and still makes a lot of money on his art because he is good at it.

        Perhaps you should take a look at some of the “Death Art” and “Blood Art”. As far as I’m concerned, any “artist” who deals with that should be forced to find another job.

        • Claire

          Have you ever heard of the “Starving Dog Artist”? He is a creep that starved a dog literally to death and painted pictures of the dog while it was dying a slow death. The guy is a filthy jerk.

          • http://?? Joe H.

            claire,
            I’d like to put that woose on a leash that he can’t break and starve HIM!!!! Bastard!!

  • Carl

    I’m happy someone is finally mentioning repeal of the 17th Amendment; and this brings up another point I’m curious about: Why do states have two (2) houses of representation. States certainly could save a bunch since both houses on the state level represent the people of that state.

    • Jeep

      Our Constitution has emplaced strict guidelines for both the House and the Senate. This division of responsibility is to balance the more populace states with the least. House seats are given based on population, while equal representation is given in the Senate. The system was designed by men who could not imagine just how partisan we could become. Maybe if Senators and Congressmen would do the right thing, as opposed to voting party line, the differences between the House and the Senate would become more clear again.

    • 45caliber

      Carl: Having two branches of the legislature puts another check on their spending. The politicians in state governments are not any better at representing their people than Congress is.

  • Dr. Mabuse

    Well I’ll be…
    Bob got it right this time !!!
    I just have one more thing to add to his list, we should declare a moratorium on all foreign aid (including Israel) for the next 5 years and utilize those monies for the benefits of the American populace.

    • DaveH

      I agree, Dr. Mabuse. It is not their money to give.

    • Vigilant

      DM:

      When Israel takes out Iran’s nuclear facilities because the US is too skittish to do it, thereby benefiting Americans, come back and we’ll talk some more.

      Israel receives in the neighborhood of $3 billion/year. It’s a drop in the bucket, about 3/10ths of one percent of the annual budget. I’d say that, in supporting the only democracy in the Middle east, it’s a worthwhile investment.

      • Dr. Mabuse

        Ok look, The Israeli’s are just as corrupt, if not more so than those fools that have plagued D.C. for the last 40 years. Ask the Palestinians what they think about Israel’s so called “democracy”.
        As long as the Zionists dictate political policy, America’s safety that you allude to is in jeopardy. Do you really believe that any semblance of nuclear detente can exist while the Israeli’s have nuclear weapons and the Persian’s don’t? Next: Self reliance…
        thats been the mantra of the consevatives since day one. Get Govt. out of the way and let the market dictate success or failure. Well, Israel has been on welfare from the U.S. since its inception in ’48.
        Don’t you think its about time for them to carry their own weight?
        I won’t get into the allegations of Israeli spy activities against the U.S. or the fact that the Ashkenazi’s are not really Jews, but are converts to Judaism, for some might assume that I seek to disparage.

        • Vigilant

          DM,

          “Ask the Palestinians what they think about Israel’s so called “democracy”.”

          You have a skewed perception of justice, my friend. Palestinians have had fair trials under Israel’s court system, and have been often acquitted. How far do you think any Israeli would get in a Palestinian system of “justice?”

          You apologists for Palestinian terrorists have always made me sick to my stomach. Your anti-Zionism is just a thinly veiled antisemitism that fails the test of sincerity.

      • Effin Reed Tard

        Vigilant,

        Good point !

        We should only stop government from giving foreign aid. The citizens should have the right to raise money privately for whatever country they want. That includes private aid in the form of arms, such as tanks and fighter jets and bullets !

        Israel would probably get more that 3 billion a year from the private sector ! All those other countries would starve …

        We could have telethons for buying tanks and Raptors for Israel ….

        I’m only for cutting government foreign aid if and only if laws are passed to protect my RIGHT to give aid to the country of my choice directly and privately ….

  • http://www.gunthorp.com Gardner Behrends

    I feel like the injured spouse, according to the IRS, whose other half cheated and spent away, leaving a huge debt to repay. But there is no way to avoid this nation’s problem. Both taxes and inflation will enslave us until we cut up the government credit cards. Ronald Regan said “It’s amazing how much government you won’t miss.” The whole country, fed, state, local, needs to go through a chapter 11 to restructure (downsize) current spending and renegotiate (minimize) unfunded liabilities. The liberals, progressives, statists, socialists, banksters, and unions have had their way with us long enough. What other choices are available? Optimists learn Spanish, pessimists learn Chineese, while realists learn the M4. Merry Christmas Patriots.

    • Jeremy Leochner

      Gardner restricting government spending while requiring raised taxes dosent equat to giving up our sovernigty. Taxes and regulation are made to prevent abuses. I agree unions and con artists can take advantage of the system and abuse it, I think thats wrong and we need to regulate Unions and be carful with welfare. But if we’re not carful we can swing to the other extreme where corporations have the power to take advantage of workers and where people who urgently need welfare or government assistance are denied it. Its wrong to let the guilty get away but its just as wrong to hurt the innocent in the pursuit of the guilty. And please remember the people will never be slaves so long as they exercise their right to vote and never lose faith in the republic.

      • DaveH

        Corporations are always subject to the choice of the consumers. With the Government involvement in the marketplace, the government agencies decide politically which companies should succeed and which should fail (damn the consumers). In Free Markets, the consumers vote with their pocketbooks as to which companies will succeed or fail.
        And in Free Markets, no company can force a consumer to buy a product, unlike when the Government gets involved (such as the mandatory requirement to buy healthcare insurance).
        To the best of my knowledge, no legitimate company has ever been able to force anybody to work for them. If you don’t like what they offer you (with their money) then go elsewhere or start your own company. Not so easy you might say? Of course not, because Big Government, which you adulate, has thrown up many roadblocks to prevent you from competing against their Crony Capitalists.
        Big Government is the Problem, Not the Solution!

        • Jeremy Leochner

          Dave your right no corporation can force a consumer to buy a product. That dosent mean they cant sell a product that isnt safe and not care. Food and drugs are a service but if corporations could simply sell without any oversight whats to stop them from jerking their safety standards or ignoring their responsibility to the consumer because it will make them more money. A corporations ultimate loyalty is to share holders and even though we live in a capitilist country where the consumer has a voice if the government isnt involved in economic regulation the consumer has no oversight over who makes the products they consume and no recourse if that group abuses or neglects them. As strange as it may seem I like capitilism. I want to be rich some day. The last thing I want is government out of control running every aspect of the economy. But right now and under what I think Mr Livingston is proposing I worry that government wont be involved enough. Competition is important and neceassary, but without government oversight our economy will be like a game of Monopoly with no rules where people can do whatever they want to make a buck no matter the consequences to anyone else. Government isnt the solution but it is necessary to help solve the problem.

          • DaveH

            Jeremy,
            Did you even read my post?
            What’s to stop those corporations from “jerking their safety standards”? We are. We don’t buy their products. They go out of business. Do you remember the Jack in the Box situation? It wasn’t even their fault, but they almost lost their company because the consumers were afraid to eat there anymore. That is the greatest punishment a company can suffer (going under). If they aren’t afraid of that, they surely aren’t afraid of a few government fines.
            Government is just a placebo. They give us a false sense of security. And it is a very expensive placebo. How do you think all these things keep happening to us (oil spills, food contamination, etc.) when Government is much Bigger now than just a few decades ago. Open your eyes, Jeremy. They are deluding you so they can get richer and fatter off our tax money.
            Did you read the article that I linked to in my comment? That is the reality of Big Government. You have bought into the fantasy.
            And your comment that “the consumer has no oversight” couldn’t be more false these days. It is much easier than ever before to scrutinize a company’s products before you buy, thanks to the Internet. Quit relying on a bunch of overpaid, underqualified people with nearly permanent jobs to do your thinking for you. Do you really think they’re going to put in the necessary effort to protect you when their jobs are almost untouchable?
            As Government Grows, Corruption Flows.

          • DaveH

            So let me get this straight in my mind, Jeremy. You fear businessmen who can’t force you to buy their product, who can’t force you to work for them (at least not in my lifetime)? But you don’t fear government people who can force you to buy their product (through taxes), and who can force you to work for them? Remember the draft where they could force you to fight and risk your life in some foreign war for vague results?
            A modern day example of government force is the Healthcare Bill which forces you and me to buy healthcare insurance. And I know that healthcare insurance is not a good investment unless you live recklessly and have bad eating habits. So they would force me to buy a product that is totally uneconomical for me? It is uneconomical for most people to add a meddlesome middleman (government) to their medical expenses. A middleman who doesn’t even have to fear being fired except in extreme cases of ineptitude. And you would expect efficiency from them? Dream on.

      • Vigilant

        Jeremy said, “Gardner restricting government spending while requiring raised taxes dosent equat to giving up our sovernigty.”

        Then you don’t know what the word “sovereignty” means. Taxes are a confiscation of property.

        • Jeep

          I agree. People just don’t understand that nothing of value belongs to them. You may think you own your house, but forget the taxes for a while…POOF…you’re on the street. That letter about your personal property tax? Throw it in the trash…POOF…your car is gone. But, wait, you say, “But I paid off the loan company!” “Your” property is still not yours.

          • 45caliber

            Jeep: You are correct. Property taxes – to me – are the most illegal taxes out there because they are basically rent on something you buy. The government position is that they own everything and you own nothing. In Texas there is only taxes on land; in other states you are taxed on everything. When I was in Arkansas EVERYTHING was taxed including the clothing you wore.

    • 45caliber

      Gardner: I like that last statement. I’ll have to remember it.

  • wisdom

    Bob,
    You couldn’t be more right. The problem is “they” have already succeeded in “dumbing down” the masses. So, do we rant and rave amongst ourselves, or think outside of the box and come up with something that solves our problems? Oh, to save some comments and thought, I don’t have the answer.

  • Bill

    One Sales tax for all would replace IRS, a gold standard as we had before would Replace the Federal Reserve, American OUT of NATO would bring back so much money to America you would not fathom, bring our troops home from “Police Actions” across the world would drop our military spending and allow up to up date and expand our present Military! Yet saving you unheard countless tax dollars, Building a fence across our Southern border and tightening our enforcement of laws nation wide would stop a large amount of Illegal invasion of this country, Making Anchor babes a citizen of the parents country “as all other nations now do,” I believe we are the last with Anchor babes? would again cut taxes, Deporting ALL Illegal invaders would pay for the deportation cost in just over a year on what they cost us nationally, (welfare, food stamps, schooling, hospital expense, and them in our prisons, them not supporting our system but taking tax refunds, Identity theft, and the money sent home by them as they suck our systems dry. this amount alone would bring us out of the depression and our heads all most if not out of the break even line for us to be about financially solvent. Some have mentioned elimination of other government heads of areas, education, the various defense acts which the government uses to spy on the American people, the new agriculture and safe food act which is any thing but, and others of this nature, that need to be gone and we quit paying for it, FEMA needs dissolved and a emergency response agency who is answerable to national and State agency’s, All this would help us financially. Make for a better America, bring about tax and tariff laws to bring back Manufacturing to America where we are exporting again, Technology shipped out of our country for manufacture made a crime, PUT THE AMERICAN WORKING MAN BACK TO WORK! phase out welfare and replace it with a regulated program for the truly needy who do have to have it. and a work camp or training agenda, to train those on Welfare for gainful wages, so they may work, food stamps, look at each case, those raping the system busted, and incentives for controlled population growth, family’s with 14 kids and not able to afford them, find a solution, if you can support 2 kids fine but not litters any more from any group, no public assistance for those who insist on unmanageable Numbers of kids. The parents pay for there offspring not the taxpayers, so if you love children so much then you pay for your own, and dare I say work programs for those in prison, make the prisons a pay as they go platform, they work they get paid they pay for there room and board. Crime in America needs to be handled differently, from the street thug to the politicians! including the banker. I believe this would help us as a country, as a nation, as a people, but most, NO AMERICAN UNION, NO CONTINENTAL HIGHWAY ACROSS AMERICA unless Americans build it, control it and receive tax or duty’s tariffs , what ever for those using it from and especially any Foreigners, NO MORE ASSISTANCE TO ANY COUNTRY BUT OUR OWN UNTIL WE ARE FINANCIALLY SOLVENT, AND NO MORE EVER LONES OR GRANTS TO MEXICO, this last attempt to stab us in the back needs to be noted and recognize as a act of war upon America! Not there first and it will not be there last. This needs to be addressed in the matter it was presented on us. An armed invasion of sovereign American Soil by a combative forien hostail force!

    • DaveH

      Bill,
      Even if the Government was financially solvent, It is NOT their money to give. Charity is a very individual decision. Government should not be allowed to make that decision for us.

      • Karolyn

        Speaking of charity – I just saw an interesting piece on the news about Panera Bread’s new stores that have a ballot box for people to put in however much money they believe is fair for their purchase. There is a “suggested” amount, but customers can put in more or less. Apparently, it is aimed at allowing those less fortunate to partake of their wares. Well, at least in two stores, it seems to be working out. They are operating at a profit. 60% of people are putting in the suggested amount; 20% are putting in less; and 20% are putting in more.

        • JeffH

          K, that’s good to hear. I think people are inherently charitable by nature.

        • 45caliber

          Karolyn:

          American people in particular are charitable since we generally have extra money when compared to other countries. However, there are differences as well. The libs want to use the tax money for charities while the conservatives prefer to give their money directly. And we don’t like to give to groups that seem to spend all or most of the money on themselves first. Many groups do just that. Before you give money, try to find out what it is spent on. Good Will, for instance, tends to spend most of it on themselves. Red Cross, ditto. Salvation Army usually not.

      • 45caliber

        The government “charities” are actually used to ship goods and money to other countries without it being traced as easily. The rest of the charity giving is to hide that even more. Care (Care packages of food) started to send food to starving people. Now it is a way for the government to send food to government militaries in other countries which frees up money there to use for other purposes.

        So I’m against the government giving to any charity for any reason.

    • Will-CA

      Great post Bill.
      I feel exactly the same way as you. If only we had more Americans like you we wouldn’t have the problems we have today. We just need to use common sense and do the right thing.
      Merry Christmas

  • R L Jarvis Sr

    When this great country was founded our founding Fathers were paid $1.00 a year, for they were millionares to begin with. There are several department of our Government that our consituation make no provision for which make them completely illegal. The Federal Reserve is and was set up in 1950 to keep tabs on our Economy, which they have done a cracherjack job the rest is history. The federal Reserve does not have to answer to the President let alone the Congress of our country. They can do as they well please and have done a very good job because we the people have let it happen by not paying attention to what is going on in Washington DC and by not voting. Those who do not vote do not have a right to complain about what is happening to them, but we who do pay atention and do vote need to take action and take our country back, not by violence but by reading about the issues and the candidates. Then go to the voting places and vote as educiated reposible citizens, then and only then can we return our country back to the Constitutional Government as set forth in our Constitution by our founding fathers who we so devinely inspired, and why because of religous repression the the old countries which is beginning to take place in our great country, so WAKE UP AMERICA do what we need to do to put our Great land back on the right track!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  • Jim Hi

    the only fair Tax is were we ALL pay at the cash register.
    the tax could be based on the cost of the item the more it cost the bigger the tax
    git rid of the IRS no more deductions write offs filing ridiculous forms we would only need a an agency to collect from the venders.
    every body would pay their fair share citizens and non citizens alike

    JW Hi

    • DaveH

      Jim,
      I’m with you that the Income Tax System needs to be eliminated but before you embrace the Fair Tax too strongly, you should read this:
      http://mises.org/daily/1814

    • Al

      The exact same idea has gone through my mind many times; that as we purchase beyond food and clothing we should pay a tax. This in my opinion should be the only tax we pay for. You buy a yacht and pay a higher tax than set at present; due to the fact you can afford luxuries. High tarriffs should be tacked onto imported goods of all articles. Several Financial Companies found the reason American Co’s relocated in foreign countries is not (IS NOT) due to high wages but because of American taxes i.e. electric,water,sewer,garbage, telephone, land,repairs etc. taxes everywhere. Does America want to PROSPER again? I BELIEVE SO. Then take a stand and let your State & Federal representative know where you stand. Don’t be bashful; contact them by whatever means is comfortable to you.

      • DaveH

        Tariffs, Al? Protectionism was one of the main contributors to the decade long Great Depression. It is not the answer. The answer is to cut the size of Big Government dramatically and I can’t think of a better way to accomplish that than to require every adult to pay the same dollar amount for their government (a True Flat Tax). After all, we want equal representation, right? So why shouldn’t we pay equally? You can bet that if every adult had to pay equally, people would quickly realize that most of Government isn’t worth what we pay for it.

        • DaveH

          Politicians are no dummies. They spread those taxes out in ways that make it almost impossible for the average citizen to comprehend just how much they have to pay for all that “Protection”.
          Corporate taxes are a good example. The politicians get people on the Envy wagon so they can get away with raising Corporate taxes. But do the Corporations really pay the taxes? Of course not, they raise their prices, cut their employees’ wages, or go out of business (in which case our goods become more scarce and we pay more for them). In other words, we all pay those taxes indirectly.
          And the Politicians play their fiddles while we suffer.

        • Dan az

          Dave I read the article on fair tax and see what you mean about not stopping the spending and will become a progressive tax.You know I have been flip flopping on flat tax or fair tax. Thanks for the site It helped me to make up my mind.Pros and cons always help!

        • http://?? Joe H.

          DaveH
          When you say pay the same dollar amount, what do you mean? Do you mean the same percentage? If you mean dollar amount, who sets the amount? I could invision the government setting that dollar amount higher than what we middle income payees now pay. now if you mean a flat tax where everybody pays the same percentage with no deductions then I agree with that. Make a dollar pay 3 cents, make a hundred pay three dollars. i know 3% is probably a little low but you get the idea.

          • DaveH

            Joe,
            If Peter pays $100, Paul should pay $100. That’s what I’m saying. That would be a Flat Tax. What they call Flat Tax usually is really a Flat Rate Tax (thus the same percentage). Who would set the amount? Who sets the amount now?
            If all else stayed the same, of course the lower income earners would pay more, and the higher income earners would pay less. I’m not sure about the middle income earners, I don’t have the energy to attempt to figure that out right now. But the key note here is that all else WOULDN’T stay the same, because people would quickly downsize the Government if everybody had the same skin in the game. Right now about 50% of the income earners pay almost nothing, so why should they care how Big Government grows? It’s no skin off their backs.

            A Flat Rate Tax (that of which you speak) would certainly be better than what we have now, but still many people would be paying for much more than they receive and many other people would be paying for much less than they receive. Unfair except to those who can rationalize it because they are receiving more than they pay for. People can rationalize all sorts of unethical behavior if they think they are benefitting from it.

      • 45caliber

        Al:

        Texas does not charge sales tax on food products. I can see that. But we pay about 8.75% tax on everything else.

    • BigBadJohn

      Fair tax? NOPE! It is the most regressive form of tax. The person who has spend everything they make just to live ends up paying a LOT higher percentage then someone who makes enough to invest 50% of his income.

      FLAT TAX is the only fair way to go. Count ALL forms of income as income, interest, dividends, capital gains, SS, payroll – everything.

      Eliminate all deductions, if you want to have 10 kids – that’s your choice, you should not get tax break for it.

      If you want to buy more of a house than you can afford, again your choice, you should not get a tax break for it. (no mortgage deduction)

      Everyone gets the first 25,000 tax free then a flat tax kicks in and everyone pays the same.
      Simple and fair.

  • Eileen Rivelle

    I support everything you say — less government = more freedom. Simple.

  • chuckb

    r l jarvis

    it’s all well and good that we study the issues and vote like responsible people, however, how about the illegal vote, the crooked union manipulation like the seiu. we are seeing more of this each election, harry reid is a prime example. they are overcoming the straight vote. we saw the start of this with al gore and his crooks during the gore-bush election in florida. they tried to blame bush to cover their tracks and since that time it gets worse each election.

  • DaveH

    Where do these star-children come from? I’m talking about the ones who can fret about those dangerous businessmen in our society at the same time they are putting a gun to your head and demanding your wallet?

  • Al

    I truly believe the votes will be checked much more carefully here in Florida from now on. Floridians appear to be scrutinizing their representatives and the government itself very closely. The more Harry Reid, Obama, the ACLU, and Acorn stray from the Constitution and our Heritage the more Floridians take notice and are angered.We will again follow the Constitution and make certain that the candidates for American Presidency are Truly eligible; and no uncertainty of this issue will be tolerated.

  • http://yahoo.com chas

    The main problem is that BLUE-SHIRTED LIBERAL NAZIZ screw up THEIR state then move out , infecting the NEXT state they move into with their “virus” by continuing the SAME IDIOTIC VOTING PATTERNS!!…We must be more diligent with our LOCAL officials in keeping these BLOOD-SUCKERS OUT!!

    • Bob Wire

      No ! the main problem is the people that want you to believe that while they do their handy work out of view and out of mind.

      • DaveH

        Bob,
        If we hobble the puppet, it doesn’t matter who is pulling the strings.

    • Effin Reed Tard

      Chas,

      You’re right on that one !

  • DaveH

    My favorite Christmas Song:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DT1fA59oH7Q

  • JeffH

    Although not a Christmas song, I find this song as one we used to sing in school as a child. Just shamefull what was, has become.
    http://www.bing.com/videos/watch/video/my-country-tis-of-thee-lyrics/dc957218fc9d2a7d36e9dc957218fc9d2a7d36e9-281060771178?q=my+country+tis+of+thee&FORM=VIRE3

    • DaveH

      Let’s get that Freedom back.

  • http://aol Frank DeSantis

    Doesn’t Texas have a part time legislature? Less government, less taxes.

    • 45caliber

      You are right. They meet for 3 months every other year. That’s all we need of them and they spend enough money when they do meet. I’d like Congress to be on the same schedule.

  • JeffH

    America Rising An Open Letter to Democrat Politicians
    http://ipatriot.com/video/america-rising-an-open-letter

    • Al Sieber

      JeffH, thanks a awful lot for that link, that was right on.

  • 45caliber

    7 states don’t have an income tax? I know Texas is one since I’m here. And I believe Nevada doesn’t have one. Who are the others??

    • http://none Mike

      Tennessee dosent. Although we have had to fight hard for about the last 10 years to avoid one. Mike L.

  • Dan az

    Subject: I think this guy is upset.
    >
    > Here’s an example of telling it like it really is. Straight from the heart to the ear of the guilty.If we did more of this sort of communications maybe, just maybe the message would have gotten to Congress years ago.
    >
    >
    >
    > Senator lan (Alan) Simpson Calls Seniors ‘Greediest Generation’…
    >
    > From a man in Montana ….who – like the rest of us – has just about had enough
    >
    > Hey Alan,
    > Let’s get a few things straight…
    > 1. As a career politician, you have been on the public dole for FIFTY YEARS…
    > 2. I have been paying Social Security taxes for 48 YEARS (since I was 15 years old. I am now 63)…
    > 3. My Social Security payments, and those of millions of other Americans, were safely tucked away in an interest bearing account for decades until you political pukes decided to raid the account and give OUR money to a bunch of zero ambition losers in return for votes, thus bankrupting the system and turning Social Security into a Ponzi scheme that would have made Bernie Madoff proud…
    > 4. Recently, just like Lucy & Charlie Brown, you and your ilk pulled the proverbial football away from millions of American seniors nearing retirement and moved the goalposts for full retirement from age 65 to age 67. NOW, you and your shill commission is proposing to move the goalposts YET AGAIN…
    > 5. I, and millions of other Americans, have been paying into Medicare from Day One, and now you morons propose to change the rules of the game. Why? Because you idiots mismanaged other parts of the economy to such an extent that you need to steal money from Medicare to pay the bills…
    > 6. I, and millions of other Americans, have been paying income taxes our entire lives, and now you propose to increase our taxes yet again. Why? Because you incompetent bastards spent our money so profligately that you just kept on spending even after you ran out of money.
    >
    > Now, you come to the American taxpayers and say you need more to pay of YOUR debt… To add insult to injury, you label us “greedy” for calling “bullshit” on your incompetence. Well, Captain Bullshit, I have a few questions for YOU…
    > 1. How much money have you earned from the American taxpayers during your pathetic 50-year political career?
    > 2. At what age did you retire from your pathetic political career, and how much are you receiving in annual retirement benefits from the American taxpayers?
    > 3. How much do you pay for YOUR government provided health insurance?
    > 4. What cuts in YOUR retirement and healthcare benefits are you proposing in your disgusting deficit reduction proposal, or, as usual, have you exempted yourself and your political cronies?
    >
    > It is you, Captain Bullshit, and your political co-conspirators who are “greedy”.
    > It is you and they who have bankrupted America and stolen the American dream from millions of loyal, patriotic taxpayers.
    > And for what? Votes.
    > That’s right, sir. You and yours have bankrupted America for the sole purpose of advancing your pathetic political careers. You know it, we know it, and you know that we know it.
    > And you can take that to the bank, you miserable son of a bitch.

  • BigBadJohn

    Which came first the Chicken or the egg…

    Is it the fact of no tax that make these states grow?
    Or is it the fact that states that do not have income tax generate revenues in other areas that supply growth?

    Alaska no tax but receive a lot of royalties from oil.

    Texas is a “tax donor state”; in 2005, for every dollar Texans paid to the federal government in federal income taxes, the state received approximately $0.94 in benefits. Sounds to me like they are living off of PORK!

    New Hampshire and Florida generate revenues from tourist trade.

    Nevada generates its revenues from gambling and sales tax.

    South Dakota has a lot of federal parks and generates revenue from tourists. Government spending is another important segment of the state’s economy, providing over ten percent of the gross state product. Ellsworth Air Force Base, near Rapid City, is the second-largest single employer in the state

    Washington has four major corporations, Starbucks, Microsoft, Costco and Nordstrom as well as many others.

    Wyoming’s mineral industry, including oil, gas, trona, and coal provided $1.3 billion in property taxes from 2006 mineral production.

    Looking at these examples only Washington may fit the argument that low taxes create growth.

    • http://?? Joe H.

      BBJ,
      Actually the chicken came first and I can prove it. The bible tells us that God created the Earth and on it put the FOWL in the air. therefore the Chicken came first! now prove me wrong!

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