Comments Subscribe to Personal Liberty News Feed Subscribe to Personal Liberty
 

Bipartisan Bill Would Let States Opt Out Of Obamacare By 2014

November 29, 2010 by  

Bipartisan bill would let states opt out of Obamacare by 2014Senators from both major political parties are working together to alter President Barack Obama's healthcare law.

According to media reports, Senators Ron Wyden (D-Ore.) and Scott Brown (R-Mass.) have co-authored the Empower States to Innovate Act. The legislation, if approved by Congress, would alter the current healthcare bill, which was signed by Obama earlier this year, by allowing states to opt out of Federal mandates by 2014 if they are able to satisfy the level of services and coverage provided under the existing law.

The current law says that states can apply for waivers to opt out of the program starting in 2017.

"It ought to be appealing to conservatives, this is a states' rights approach," Wyden told CNN. "And it certainly ought to be appealing to progressive folks who would like to try some of their ideas out at the state level."

According to a recent Gallup poll, approximately 61 percent of Americans prefer a healthcare system based mostly on private insurance rather than a government-run arrangement. The public's opinion about the government's role in healthcare has shifted over the last three years.

In 2007, more than 60 percent of those surveyed said it was the government's responsibility to ensure that all Americans were covered, compared to only 47 percent in 2010.

Special To Personal Liberty

You Sound Off! is written by our readers and appears the last Wednesday of each month. If you would like to submit an article or letter to the editor for consideration for You Sound Off!, send it to yousoundoff@personalliberty.com by the Friday before the last Wednesday of the month. To be considered, a submission should be 750 words or less and must include the writer's name, address and a telephone number. Only the writer's name will be published. Anonymous submissions will not be considered.

Facebook Conversations

Join the Discussion:
View Comments to “Bipartisan Bill Would Let States Opt Out Of Obamacare By 2014”

Comment Policy: We encourage an open discussion with a wide range of viewpoints, even extreme ones, but we will not tolerate racism, profanity or slanderous comments toward the author(s) or comment participants. Make your case passionately, but civilly. Please don't stoop to name calling. We use filters for spam protection. If your comment does not appear, it is likely because it violates the above policy or contains links or language typical of spam. We reserve the right to remove comments at our discretion.

Is there news related to personal liberty happening in your area? Contact us at newstips@personalliberty.com

  • Linda

    What a large percentage of Americans wanted was 100% free health care. They didn’t want to be forced to purchse insurance policies. If they could have done that before the health care scam, they would have done it. I don’t know why the administration won’t see that.

    • TIME

      LINDA,

      Nothing in life is “FREE,” most anyone who has a JOB or common sense knows that.
      Anyone who runs a business no matter what size understands that “FREE” is something that has never happened in Business ever.
      There is always a HOOK, and that HOOK always is far larger that anyone can fathom……….

      So to think that Health Care would be FREE is no differant than thinking that cloths are FREE, Food is FREE, your new car would be FREE, your new Cell Phone would be FREE.

      Sure you can get them all for free on some special deal,
      “”but just wait until the bill comes in.”"
      Then you will see just how “FREE” it was, as in you will end up paying twice what you would have paid if you just bought it.

      • thinking

        someone else will pay so it is free! As long as we believe it isn’t us that will ever have to pay, it is a good deal. Food stamps are free, welfare is free, cell phones are free, medical is free. As long as you can qualify. One day our way of life will pay and then a dictater will be in charge and then see what freebies they have.

        • Denniso

          You people aren’t thinking clearly or understanding the country correctly. Most people who wanted reform in healthcare preferred a private system,paid for through taxation just like medicare,which allows the gov’t to keep costs down and get the blood sucking huge insurance corporations out of it. They all know that nothing is ‘free’,but also know that the private insurers and giant healthcare and drug corporations are largely responsible for the unsustainable cost increases.

          The only free care would be for the truly impoverished adults and children,just like now,but w/ all sorts of red tape and cost increasing bureaucracy thrown in.

          I realize that many ‘conservatives’,who also claim to be followers of Jesus,don’t want to pay a nickel more in taxes to help the poorest get life sustaining healthcare,but there are enough compassionate Americans still to see that they do get help,one way or another.

          • Conservative at Birth

            Then let those supposed compasionate people, donate for those who need it. Not force everyone else to pay through taxation. Tax: to put a strain on; heavy burden; penalize. You have no idea what true conservatives think and believ. For those of you who want bigger and bigger government, I suggest you move to a totalitarin socialist country, and leave us to our own devices.

          • Denniso

            Do you claim to be a christian? Just curious…

          • TIME

            DO
            Lets just look at how well medicade is doing?
            Oh and by the way that is “Government run health care!”

            Can you say its BROKEN.

          • thinking

            oh and don’t forget thousands of people are making money at medicare and medicade, they are the theifs and con artists that are getting billions of dollars from the government because the government run means easy money to them. Christians know that 50% or more of the money government takes from tax payers doesn’t get to the ones that need it. Churchs give 100% to help. Big difference of getting the money to where it is needed. The obamacare plan will use more of the money to run the system then insurance companies do so now you will have another big layer of lost money not getting to the medical needs of people, just like medicare!

          • JJ

            Yes I am a Christian and it is clear to me that you know nothing about what a Christian is. Your soft approach to bashing Christians doesn’t fly. Christians are the most generous people on planet earth. How many places, hospitals, soup kitchens, places for the disabled, treatment centers, right to life centers, right here in our own country. Around the globe, mercy ships loaded with doctors, bus pilots and others that go around the globe supplying millions of tons of food and fresh water every year all from the pockets of those greedy selfish Christians. They are all ran by Christian organizations? More that I can count. There are thousands every year for the USA that go on mission trips to help the needy, not just doctors but all walks of life. Just in case you didn’t know it they all pay for the privilege to do so and it is not cheap. They pay with their own money to give a service that they normally get paid for. Many of these people over the years have been killed because of the areas they serve. Or own church has volunteers that go into a very dangerous place every year and builds one or two houses for people that have very little, and by the way these houses have two rooms and a concrete floor instead of dirt like their neighbors they are far more appreciative than any welfare recipient that I have ever seen. As far as giving to the most needy your idiot. All of these services are their for that very reason. You need to save your talking points for the liberal that you hang with because no true conservative would make such an ill informed comment.

          • Kate8

            Denniso – That ‘Christian’ argument is a tired one. Give it up.

            Yeshua taught us to help those in need, it is true. But, unless it is done freely, from the heart, it means nothing.

            On the other hand, He condemns theft in all forms. You can’t justify a supposed act of ‘compassion’, plunder, just because you plan to give to someone in need.

            The whole concept of ‘governemt assistance’ has failed, anyway. It has created a permanent underclass who have no idea how to survive without it. And, of course, that WAS the whole idea.

            BTW, Christians contribute more to charities of all kinds than do stingy liberals. You guys are only generous with someone else’s money. Government is only ‘compassionate’ when it fits with an agenda.

          • http://eddie47d@gmail.com eddie47d

            There are plenty of hard working,compassionate and generous liberals as there are conservatives.Your extreme slant on liberals get’s a little old too.

          • Dan az

            denny
            voters in three states—Arizona, Oklahoma and Colorado—had the opportunity to deliver a direct message on ObamaCare. Those states had anti-ObamaCare constitutional amendments on their ballots. Arizona and Oklahoma passed their amendments by large margins and Colorado opposed it.I would bet that with out the states he couldnt make it fly!!!

          • Kate8

            eddie – Doesn’t change the fact that you are the party of robbing from some and giving to others. The irony is, most of the plunder goes to the wealthiest elites, not the poor. The whole purpose of these programs is to keep people dependent and entitlement minded.

            I know democrats who run businesses and have done well. The thing is, they have been too busy to keep abreast of who does what, and simply buy the party slogans. They also use all the tax deductions, breaks and loopholes they can to keep from paying the very taxes they support. Pretty hypocritical, don’tcha think?

            The IRS would gladly take more money from you. Let’s make paying into social programs voluntary and see how many of you libs contribute.

          • Denniso

            For all that religious and secular groups do to alleviate poverty,hunger and misery,we still have millions of working poor. They don’t choose to be poor and they’re not lazy. A christian assuaging her conscience because her church helps some people and then voting against gov’t policies that try to fix the huge systemic problem in our country,has little credibility. If individual and group charity adequately addressed the poverty problem,then I would say we don’t need gov’t intervention…clearly that’s not the case.

            Modern societies w/ less of a need for labor can not fully employ everyone who wants to work,at a livable wage. The difference between us and most of the rest of the world is that they recognize that fact and provide a workable safety net for their people,who after all at some point,pay taxes. Our ‘conservative’ brothers here want to continue to live in denial and accept the modern world.

            Even when we were booming before the crash,we had tens of millions of working poor…our system has never been able to deal w/ the problem except in a time of all out war,as in WW 2.

          • Kate8

            Denniso – And, in spite of all the government programs, we still have the working poor. Government programs do NOT work, and you’ve ignored all of the points I made.

            Just look at the UK – so many people on the permanent dole as a way of life, for generations. So many don’t ever get off the dole here, either. They take the free money, and complain it’s not enough. They sit in their free housing, and complain that it’s not big enough, the TV’s too small…

            And stop with the Christian jabs. As I’ve said, over and over, theft is never right, no matter who does the stealing.

            And no matter how much help is out there, there will always be the poor. Being poor becomes a state of mind, and when you have enough welfare money to survive, there is no incentive to work. People stay poor because they think poor. That is, until the government sets out to take everything away.

            Yeshua said that the poor would always be with us. How much have you donated to charity lately?

          • Denniso

            Im not talking about welfare w/ cash going to people who don’t work,that’s a separate issue. I’m talking about people,working or not,being able to get medical attention when they need it.

            I’m also trying to make the point that supposed compassionate Christians vote against gov’t policy that can help in the fight against dire poverty and the kids caught in it through no fault of theirs. You want to rationalize away and sooth your conscience because Jesus said the poor will always be w/ us…that’s about the biggest cop out I’ve heard. A comment made 2000 yrs ago determining what we should do w/ public policy? Yikes! Some evolved thinking there…

          • http://eddie47d@gmail.com eddie47d

            Both Denniso and Kate 8 are right about Christian giving and the role of government. Both “groups” have tried their best to provide a safety net and it still isn’t enough. Welfare and unemployment insurance can be over used so how do we weed out the rats in the corn crib? The Church can’t go this alone and the government is so big alot of money is wasted before it gets to the appropriate destination.The main issue here is health care and the religious community certainly doesn’t have the resources to handle that endeavor. They do sponsor a few hospitals but they are for profit and does little for the poor. I grew up thinking that Americans help each other out through thick and thin. Well things have gotten pretty darn thin so if the private sector can’t carry the load then it’s time for that mean ol’ government to step back in. There may be waste but it is the right thing to do and that is from a Christian perspective.

          • minnie

            Medicare is not free, the persons that qualify for medicare had to have worked 40 quarters and paid into medicare, like deducted from their paychecks and then you had to be either 65 or 66 years of age. Depending how much you earned, cause the more money you earned the more money the government takes out of your paychecks, so if you started to work at age 20 by the time they are 65 they have paid for 45 years into medicare. It is not free. Also the more you EARNED the more will be your social securit check. When you have paid all your life it is not fair for someone else to EXPECT THE BENEFITS without depositing into paying into medicare sometimes waiting with no health insurance till they are 65 yrs of age. Some people work for cash on purpose to not pay into medicare, I know quite a few that do that, BUT EXPECT freebies without qualifying. We want you to qualify before you can get health insurance, REPEAL OBAMACARE!!!! ASAP.

          • Bob Wire

            “You people aren’t thinking clearly or understanding the country correctly.”

            That some would claim it unconstitutional that they be required to pay while some claim it’s “FREE”, I’ll have to agree with you Denniso!

            It just a change some don’t like as they enjoy the way it presently is ? ~ we are left to only guess. If I had the Fed subsidizing my health care for the last 20 years and now having to pay full price, I’d not like the change either. LOL!

            And the Insurance Companies has fought this tooth,hair and nail, every way they can. So we are dealing with a “hostile” provider and always will as long as they carry anti-trust immunity. We never managed to place a ring in the BULLs nose, and he’s ornery and unruly as ever. Special interest spent 3 million dollars a month running interference and offered him protection and insured closed markets. The Tea Party crowd enjoy some of this money a it served their sense of capitalism.

            I like the states choice idea ~ over a period of time it would show us the best way to proceed. Would like minds group up and if so could they afford to? ~ At my age, it would be hard too move as I enjoy a 40 year customer base and no time left to rebuild. I carry a state license. So “state choice” has many down sides to it as well, not truly being an option for everyone for other reasons.

            But what I’d really like to see is basic health care a requirement like state auto inspections. A small fee that covers the most basic of health care and early warning with prevention features offered.(if care is to be so damned expensive) While Understanding, personal health is personal and ones own responsibility. If you get too sick the chance of dieing is very good.

            It shouldn’t be up to government to spend 50 thousand dollars to keep anyone alive for one event. ~ This comes under charity, ~ if you have friends and found you worthy, you might get the help you need, if you or family don’t have it. ~

            It’s not that complicated ~ it’s only peoples fear of dieing that kicking our collective ass while the buzzards have a picnic.

            I don’t mind the dieing part ~ but the great pain and long suffering scare the crap out of even me, as the doctors and government seems to insist it to be the only way out. ~ How convenient for them!

        • http://zzzz Preston

          11/30/10, The dictator is here now.

    • vikkihill

      Linda, the only problem with “free” is that someone has to pay for it. It is a very simple concept that people don’t understand. If you acquire something that someone else has to provide, why should you get it for free and someone else be required to provide it. Our country is bankrupt. Think about your statements. You are not thinking rationally.
      Then we get to rationing of healthcare where you divide the cost of the health care provided by the number of months or years that the patient will benefit = rationing of healthcare. Some make the cut and others don’t. You stand by and watch your loved ones die. NOTHING is free.

  • Bleh

    An Opt out by 2014 is unacceptable.

    • Jana

      Bleh,
      I totally agree with you. By then the states will have already started on an irreversible course. Of course they all know that so this is a no brainer and a NO winner.

  • TIME

    This MONSTER of RED INK ~ let alone total 100% JOB killer of a law let alone “100% total Freedom destroyer” of a Law needs to be closed down totally, as in {100% wiped off the books like it never happened.}

    • Dan az

      Time
      Compromise is not the answer,Burn it and throw the bum out.Know one here except the progs and libs will say that the system dosent need to be fixed.But to use it as a way to increase the ever bloating gov. is not the way that it needs to be done.I ask those that want this to show me one example that it actually worked EVER,then I would look to see what could be done to improve what we have!And for those that would say we would stop giving care to those who need it is BS and you know it.Try removing the illegals from the system some 40 million of them and see if the cost to us dosent go down!Some one has to pay for them!

  • James

    i agree that obamacare needs to be altered , from the first letter and the last , all in between should be deleted , then find someone with a little sense and , a bit of knowledge of the constitution , to come up with something that will work AND be constitutional

    • Kate8

      James, I agree. But will a state-MANDATED system be the compromise? Mandated is mandated, and Constitutionality doesn’t seem to matter to Progressives on both sides of the aisle.

      We need CHOICE, to buy or not to buy. And what kind of policy to buy if we CHOOSE to do so.

      Maybe we could have a less-expensive version geared toward natural medicine. Many of us would never see an allopathic doctor unless we needed stitches or surgery, and only then as a last resort.

      • Vigilant

        Kate8,

        You’ve hit the nail on the head!

        Being FORCED to buy a product is unconstitutional, whether Big Brother or Little Brother does it!

      • James

        Kate8, Congress has no control over state health laws. The federal healthcare plan attempts to force states to change their plans and submit to federal control, that’s why that part, which would force 30 million un-insured Americans to buy health insuance, whether they want it or not, is unconstitutional.

    • minnie

      YEA, AND IF this people can afford a computer and the internet THEY CAN USE THAT MONEY TO PAY FOR THEIR HEALTH INSURANCE. A CELL PHONE???????? That is a luxury, THEY cannot afford if THEY have no health insurance, THEY SHOULD Go work in a nursing home, they are always hiring, people keep quitting on nursing homes or assisted living homes. Hey they ALSO offer you to buy health insurance. People do not stay not even for their health insurance CAUSE IT WILL BE DEDUCTED FROM YOUR PAYCHECK. LOSERS.

    • http://zzzz Preston

      11/30/10, we,as it is, are becoming more like Europe as Europe abandons it’s old economic ways. Don’t be that woman from Canada with the urgent surgical dilemma of “unless I went to the US, I would have died.”

  • Peg

    Correction: Ron Wyden is a Democrat (from OR)

    • http://www.boblivingstonletter.com/ Bob Livingston

      Dear Peg,

      Thanks for pointing out our error. It’s been corrected.

      Best wishes,
      Bob

  • http://ByGeorge By George

    All ready they are talking about altering Obamacare. No, No, No! Abolish it, completely. It is the anchor pin for the complete socialization of Americas already fragile economy, lying there like a time bomb if it is left intact. Disarm it now! To simply change it is to accept the premise that on its face the bill is good and lo, in a few short years, when we are not looking again, they will fine a reason to change it back again. Get government out of our lives. Period!

    • castaway

      Well George, if you really want government out of your life, it means you will need to give the Ultimate sacrifice as others before you have done. Are you up to it, or just flapping your gums?

      • http://opinerlog.blogspot.com jim delaney

        I and countless other Americans absolutely want the feds out of our lives. What’s so weird about self-respecting, self-starting Americans wanting to run their own lives. The socialist makeover must end now! The feds should stick to their constitutionally enumerated powers only. Nothing more, nothing less. Only to a socialist would such a fonding principle be viewedd as outlandish or extreme.

        Also, what happened to the time-honored, practical notion of state level experimentation. Except for Art 1 Sec 8 powers which are granted to the feds, the States should be allowed the latitude to experiment and to govern in their respective political spheres. A federally mandated one-size-fits-all needlessly and recklessly risks one-size-destroys-all. How dumb is that! So, though I agree, in part, with the State opt-out formula, am still hoping that every effort–legislative & judicial–is expended to abolish 90% of Obamacare since the direct and indirect costs of Obamacare will be felt by everyone and every State, even those opting out.

        • Denniso

          You want the Feds out of your life?? Then you’d better start opting out on the long list of things supported by the Feds…Most roads and highways in the country…water treatment plants…sewage treatment plants…national defense..water projects on levies,lakes,rivers..NASA…public education…disaster relief..fire and police protection that receives Fed $$…FDIC insured bank deposits, and more… The reason we have Fed involvement in so many things deemed necessary or important is that the states wouldn’t or couldn’t do them and the ‘market’ can’t address them at all or w/ reasonable cost.

          If the states had done something effective and good about healthcare in the past,there would have been no need for the Feds to get involved. You so easily forget that our huge heathcare costs have been bankrupting individuals,companies and the state and federal gov’ts…that’s why Obama acted.

          I’m adamantly opposed to the insurance mandates in the bill,and maybe we’ll see some effective efforts at getting rid of them to be replaced by more sensible options.

          • TIME

            DO, And your point is what again?

          • Ellen

            Most of the things you say the fed handles are actually handled by the states. Perhaps you don’t understand the difference between fed and state responsibilities. They are funded by taxes and are necessary (police, firefighters, etc).

          • Kate8

            Denniso – Perhaps you also fail to grasp that infrastructure is paid for by US (at least those who pay taxes), and doesn’t mean we have to sacrifice personal freedoms and choices to have them.

            If that WAS the case, I’d gladly give up super-highways in order to stay free of government intrusion.

            I think your comparison is a real stretch. That is the exact same mentality that FORCED this debacle on us in the first place. That is, the idea that BigBro can decide how we live, where we live and IF we live.

          • http://eddie47d@gmail.com eddie47d

            Ellen; Much of what Denniso mentioned does depend on Federal assistance even if it is run by the State.

          • Denniso

            There is almost nothing that gives some order and quality of life that does not get federal money. Why do you think most states have seat belt laws? Because if the states don’t enforce that law they don’t get federal money that helps fund the police depts…

            Drinking water, clean air, sewage plants,water projests, all get federal money,and some states like Alaska get much more in federal handouts than they pay in taxes. Most states can’t afford the big ticket costs of some things we take for granted in everyday life.

            Flush your toilet and think about the federal money that most likely makes that possible.

          • TIME

            DenO,
            When I flush ~ if something happens I have to call someone to fix the problem, and guess what dude ~ I pay for that out of my pocket.
            Not everyone is in sewer line, as a matter fo fact only 30% of the United states in on a swer line, as for water treatment plants only in BIG citys dude, otherwise its all localy run.

            We have a big Phat tank underground that aids in keeping our lawns green and oddly it works quite well. No Federal Bucks there dude.

            Most states etc. sell “BONDS” to do what ever needs to be done in the local areas.
            Perhaps you missed that part of the class dude. Nice try – But hey thanks for playing and keep trying dude one day you may just post something thats on target.

          • http://eddie47d@gmail.com eddie47d

            Only 30% are on a sewer line? I really doubt that.

          • minnie

            You have no clue, all those that you mention are not free, ALL the TAXPAYING PEOPLE have paid for that, IF YOU DO NOT KNOW THAT, THAT MEANS YOU HAVE PAID FOR THEM. The Corrupted lawyers AND PEOPLE THAT ARE just waiting for any chance to SUE are the reason the health insurance premiums is so high. bho should have outlaw that then the health insurance would have been cheaper, but NO, THOSE LAWYERS ARE HIS FRIENDS, remember he is a lawyer, Who do you think is going to pay for your free health iinsurance when bho bankrupts our country. We will be like germany. But WE THE PEOPLE WILL NOT LET THAT HAPPEN, we need to follow the ARIZONA LAW.

          • Denniso

            Federal money flows to states for many big projects…but, what does it matter if it’s state money or federal? If we diminish the size and power of the feds and then raised state taxes to do what the feds used to do, then the rightwingers would start talking about revolution against the states, where the power and taxation would then reside.

            Add up the population in all the large cities,then add in all the mid sized cities and then add up the small towns across the country…you would come up w/ much more than 30% of people hooked up to sewer lines flowing into expensive treatment facilities. Sure let’s put everyone on a septic tank and watch cholera and hepatitus devastate the country, all so we can be ‘free’…

          • Bob Wire

            “Federal money flows to states for many big projects…but, what does it matter if it’s state money or federal?”

            It doesn’t really as the state is a bigger thief then the Fed! But they are after “O” at the moment and he’s seen as the “FED” and everything evil.

            and you are right of course, The states have become dependent on the FED for cash and help them float their boat. Even Texas, a rich state with Conservative Governor leadership is in the tank today and facing huge short falls in revenues and running over budget. But they are conservative! ~ and need every Federal nickle. Rick Perry was threaten to succeed for the union in January and crying to the Fed in February for help from the CDC with the swine flu outbreak.

            It was very embarrassing to see my states Governor behave like a over confident child that knows everything and then cry like a baby that soiled it pants the next, ~ Dipper rash and a gaulded

          • Bob Wire

            “Federal money flows to states for many big projects…but, what does it matter if it’s state money or federal?”

            It doesn’t really matter, as the state is a bigger thief then the Fed! But these people are after “O” at the moment and he’s seen as the “FED” and everything evil. Few are discussing or even looking a the state, so I was surprised to read this article.

            and you are right of course, The states have become dependent on the FED for cash and help them float their boat. Even Texas, a rich state with Conservative Governor leadership in his second term is in the tank today and facing huge short falls in revenues and running over budget.

            But they are conservative! ~ and still they need every Federal nickle.

            Rick Perry was threaten to succeed from the union in January and crying to the Fed in February for help from the CDC with the swine flu outbreak.

            It was very embarrassing to see my states Governor behave like a over confident child that knows everything and then cry like a baby that soiled it pants the next, ~ Dipper rash and a galled butt is very painful.

            We’ve got serious budget problems here in Texas today, revenues are down. The state must down size and raise revenues at the same time while holding fast to their “notions” of conservatism with a monkey grip.

            That should prove most interesting ~ I know where they are headed already, ~ they are coming after me!

            I got news for them. ~ this rabbit has went under ground years ago and casting no shadow today. I seed my front yard with broken tricycles and children toys and drive throw-away 2,000. dollar trucks.

            It’s a damn shame the tactics of survival I learned while living in Mexico as became necessary here in America today.

            We are turning into Mexico, ~ The rich that live behind walls and gated communities and the rest of us behind picket fences, while the others under bridges, in cars , building stairwell, and city streets.

            Without a strong middle class ~ that’s the final situation any society anywhere in the world is left with.

        • James

          Jim d, The only power the federal government has, are those that were delegated to it in Art., Sect. 8 (U.S. Const.) The States retained all of the other powers. You sound like you believe the states are mere agencies of the federal government. Not so, they created the federal government, apparently most Americans have forgotten that.

  • Raggs

    Who in the world are the 60% then and 47% now that believe the government should have the responsibility of health care????

    OH…. They must be the same idiots that voted for obama, Am I close?

    • castaway

      I would say you are right on.

  • J.M.R.

    just repeal this damn trash bill

    • JAFO

      I Second That Notion !

      This entire bill is Trash. And the Vast Majority of pertinent content has absolutely Nothing to do with Healthcare. None-The-Less, that what this does address in the “HealthCare” issue is frivolous and beaurocratic dribble, meant to sound pro-active thru jibberish.
      What, are we supposed to overlook all of the atrocities this bill suggests ? An Army? A “Domestic” Army ? The highering of so many Federal Deputies for enforcement ? Really ? An old saying comes to mind when I hear about new laws needing enforced… If nobody wanted to do it, there wouldn’t be a law againt it… Now why would a law be passed,as this one was(ABSOLUELY CONTRARY TO OUR FOUNDING PRINCIPALS) wih Armies and Federal Enforcement Agencies and the Pre-Determined-Penalties included ? I’ll tell you… They did not design this Bill to be “The American Way”. They designed it to circumvent the Juicial Branch of Government entirely. Not to mention Our Constitution !
      The Whole Damned Thing Needs Burned Out Of America’s History. And Those That Rammed It Thru Need To Be Tried For Sedition !!!

  • alpha-lemming

    What progressive would be for anything except control by the Federal Government and States rights be damned??

  • castaway

    I predicted and knew this is what would happen. We are stuck with this Obamacare BS, and no matter what we do it will infringe on our freedoms. This is an opt-out of course with conditions, and I thought the majority wanted it ALL repealed.

    Do you VOTERS still believe you have control over what happens in government? Do not be foolish and lead to the slaughter, by the forces that be. You are all being humored by the US government.

    As it is going now, in 10 years there will be nothing recognizable about this country. You young pups do not know the difference or care, because you never lived in a America that was free, so you accept this change to socialism with open arms.

    It appears that over 200 years of patriotism and self sacrifice for freedom was all for naught. I would say that most of them died for a dream only and thought is was an ideal they gave their lives for.

    I hope that all you non patriots that will help to promote all these undoings for the American way of life are very proud of yourselves for what you have done and are doing to this great country. I hope you know that hundreds of thousands of patriots died so you could have the right to destroy it all.

    • http://eddie47d@gmail.com eddie47d

      If States can come up with a better plan then that should be welcomed.The majority of Americans want a good health care system whether it is private or government sponsored. We know the private health care system gouged the public so nobody would even be concerned about this national plan if they had been doing their job. You should have been more concerned 10-20 years ago when extraordinary profits were a bigger part of private companies strategy. That was more important than making people well. United Healthcare and Big Pharma dropped the ball and gouged the public, so a National plan became more urgent. Where was their Patriotic concern for the well being of America or the public? Did thousands die on the battlefield for their greed. Why did they become so selective that millions had to drop their insurance coverage? Why did the cost of medicine become so outrageous and unaffordable? If we could feel your rage for their unscrupulous behavior then maybe the attacks against “Obamacare” would make sense.

      • J.M.R.

        wrong i don’t want anything that this crooked government has its hands on. this bill would make good a&& paper for these crooks

      • Dan az

        Special Ed
        You where told before that the increase of health care was related to the number of illegals that are abusing the system.Why the same old BS?That alone would reduce the cost to us but you think that the trillions of dollars that this socialist bill would make it better.why dont you prove to me that it would work with some facts that there is a socialist system that works?Give me one!!!!

      • Kate8

        eddie, What you say would make some sense, except the truth is that the outrageous cost of medical care was engineered exactly to this end, because it is NOT about our health. It is about control.

        When my kids were small a doctor’s visit was $7.00. My husband spent a week in intensive care for $350.

        It started with the soaring of malpractice suits. People were being awarded millions for any and every failure to heal. And since allopathy cannot heal, there were millions of layers getting obscenely rich. (Is this looking like a pattern yet?)

        It is government intrusion that created this mess, and made a lot of people rich. Our medical system was created by Rockefeller and the NWO elites to become the arm of absolute control of the people. That is why they’ve trained us all to believe allopathy is the only valid medicine, that we MUST consult the ‘experts’, and that we can’t live without following their advice and ‘treatments’. We have been nudged into total dependence on ‘healthcare’, and the ‘necessity’ has now become a ‘right’.

        We would do well to examine that ‘right’, and be careful what we wish for. This has become another trap that has been sprung.

        • http://eddie47d@gmail.com eddie47d

          Tort reform is needed but that is only one percent of medical costs.You blame government on everything when all the other crooks are still out there wandering around ready to pounce on their next victim. You all say these individuals and corporations will control themselves but they never do. If something works better without the government that is great, unfortunately we’ve all seen alot of greed and waste coming from the private sector also.Since most of those private insurance companies will still have their hands out and be apart of this new healthcare plan. Who will stop them from nailing us some more? (It’s already happening). To look at it another way;Maybe there should be more government oversight or these private insurance companies should take their business to another unsuspecting country. There they can bilk more naive customers.

          • Kate8

            eddie, What about those of us who do not WANT the healthcare being offered? Why should we be FORCED to pay for someting we won’t use?

            The truth is, medicine will, most likely, be used for mass genocide. We will be FORCED to be examined, vaccinated, and ‘mood-stabilized’. With everyone in the system, there is no way to opt out.

            Malpractice is only 1%? Do you have some proof of this?

            America functioned with a high level of business ethics for a long time. Corruption was engineered by Progressives, encouraged by Progressives, and then used by Progressives as proof that capitalism can’t work. You need a moral people to police themselves. Moral people also will not accept communism. Each generation has been exposed to ever more depravity, led to believe that life is all about them, that we don’t need a higher power than government, that government will save them from themselves…

            Hope you all are happy with what you’ve created, because most of us aren’t. It was so gradual that we missed it until it was too late.

          • Denniso

            Do you realize there are millions of people who resent a large portion of their taxes paid in going to the bloated military budget? It’s one of the biggest pieces of the budget,about $600 billion,and much of it is pure waste and used in very questionable military adventures around the world. Can you imaginr that there are more millions who are outraged over the more than trillion $$ that will be spent on the 2 wars that Bush started and then neglected and didn’t end? We all have complaints about where our tax money goes and don’t appreciate having to ‘buy’ some of the crap the gov’t pushes on us w/ our tax money.

          • James

            Eddie47d, Karl Marx said the federal government should oversee and regulate everything. Aer you agreeing with his Communist Manifesto?

      • alpha-lemming

        I’m having a hard time following this thought process but I’ll give it “the old college try”

        Don’t inter-mix the “Health Care System” (still probably the best in the world) with “Health Insurance” (it’s NOT insurance… thank you Ted “Splash” Kennedy)

        “Health Care” is expensive becaused it’s subsidized… Still the fastest way to increase costs ever devised. When someone else pays… IMMEDIATELY and by definition PRICE BECOMES NO OBJECT!! When subsidized, the free-market laws of economics no longer apply. If they could get away with it, don’t you think Burger King would charge $40 for a Whopper?? Of course they would!! But, the fast food free-market offers many alternatives to the public at varying prices and the price of a Whopper is set to be a competative option among the panoply of choices.

        “Health Insurance” became expensive partially due to subsidized Health Care, partially due to subsidized dead-beats with no insurance, but mostly because it stopped being “classic” insurance, to be used for catastrophic occurances, and became the “no-limt ATM card” HMO model (~$7-8K per year with premiums and deductions for a family… even before any medical services are rendered!!). Your car insurance would be >$1000/month if they paid for all your oil changes, car washes, new tires & wipers, custom wheels etc..

        Want to bring down costs?? Offer portability and REAL inter-state free-market competition.

      • minnie

        What matters is you have to pay for your health insurance like everyone else that has one just like you have to pay for your T.V. at the store OR when you go to a RENTAL STORE TRYING TO BUY AN ITEM. If you quit paying you lose it. THAT IS THE AMERICAN WAY, that is unless you are in welfare, that is a different story. Go see if you qualify for welfare. Repeal obamadeathcare. ASAP.

        • Denniso

          So you think that healthcare should be equated to T.V.?? Isn’t one a little more important than the other?

    • Don

      You are so right Castaway, i still have hope that some will come around before it’s to late, and that our new congress does the job the American people want, and that is take down this administration.

  • George

    All these entitlement programs will be the downfall of America… hey, here’s an idea, maybe they should declare everyone has a right to eat and then give us all free food too! There will be a chicken in every pot!!!

    • Denniso

      Do you think that people should die in the streets and under bridges if they can’t buy food? Don’t we all as humans and maybe creatures of God owe it to the least among us to insure that doesn’t happen? Especially children who didn’t ask to come into their world of poverty and hunger?

  • Chris

    It not fast enough. I never want to have to be a part of these crappy government mandated programs. No one wants to pay the extra overhead of this garbage for years while they ‘figure things out’.

  • Bus

    This might be a good start but the tea party revolution wants the thing repealed, totally repealed…Now that would be a big F….. deal to quote Sir Bite Me.

  • http://com i41

    IWe all can thank the beleifs that have been jammed down everyone skull. The idea a government job or be employed by a big corporation. was the height of getting somewhere in life. From grandparents and parents, the idea of being in business for your self has been discouraged by media, schools, and the government. All democrats since the 1940′s to even the present, implement impedements by creating permitting processes and paper shuffling messes that just keeps getting greater. Go to any college and listen to the crap coming out of the “over paid jackass professors”, of any business degree programs! They all preach the need for government subsidies, agency advisors and government monetary support. Gaming the government and taxpayers is promoted, instead of actually creating something useful and producing something consumers can utilize. The idea of a a bipartisan bill to opt out of healthcare, implement it today not 2014. What rinos are coming up with this b–l s–t sell out bill?

  • http://opinerlog.blogspot.com jim delaney

    Isn’t it instructive–to those of us wanting to learn, of course–that while the Obamabots insidiously move toward socialism, the Europeans are moving away from it with all deliberate speed. Duh. Liberalism really is a mental illness.

    • Denniso

      Why don’t you list the ‘socialist’ things about our government that you would cancel and how you would address the needs of the country w/o those programs. I gave you a partial list above…

      My guess is that you don’t know how to define ‘socialism’ anyway and you won’t go through the minor effort I’m asking of you. You guys usually just rant in generalities. But, i’m open to being shown that you’re a smarter ‘conservative’. Hint,it doesn’t count to just say ‘privatise’ everything the gov’t does.

  • Ellen

    Health insurance companies are regulated by insurance commissioners in each state and average a 2 to 5% profit margin. They are not the problem with escalating costs, as they are just a pass-through. Our costs have escalated because we are unhealthy and use health care services more and we provide free health care to the ‘poor.’ (There is no real poverty in the US anymore.) Everyone who pays for health care is funding these at the cost of rising premiums. Providing ‘free’ insurance to uninsured and changing the poverty level for Medicaid to increase its use are the reasons for Obamacare – not helping the ‘middle class.’ The few new restrictions to insurers help a miniscule percentage of the middle class. It was the way Obama could sell it, along with his hyped talk about greedy insurance companies. If you are middle class and lose your job and your employer-subsidized health care, you are no better off than pre-Obamacare. This is a very real problem, as opposed to the fake problems Obama sold Obamacare on. In fact, you may be worse off, as you will now be required to buy health insurance even though you are unemployed and can’t afford it. If we want to reduce health care costs, we need to get the garbage out of our food and we need to change our welfare laws so we don’t have so many people needing free health care. Medicaid is our biggest controllable budget cost, yet Congress refuses to control it and Obama is increasing it.

    • Denniso

      You really blew any credibility you might have had, by stating that there is ‘no real poverty in the U.S. anymore’. Get out on the streets of any town and city…walk in the slums and Ghettos of inner cities. Luckily we do give the poorest some help w/ food and if they can qualify,help w/ housing. No real poverty?? Yikes, are you blind and deaf to the world around you? Do you vote?

      • Ellen

        Real poverty exists in third world nations where people have no food, clothing, shelter or health care. In the US, we have welfare that provides all the necessities. We have the US version of poverty, which is better than the standard of living in many nations. We just have a skewed view. In the US, the majority of people labeled as poor own their own homes and own 2 cars. Most of our poor have cable TV and cell phones. It’s all perspective.

        • Denniso

          ‘Most of the poor own their own home and have 2 cars’??? Where did you get that bogus info? Most of the poor DO NOT own their own home,and many who do might own a home that no self respecting American would ever live in,and it would be in a slum area anyway. If poor people own a home,it’s also actually owned by the bank,not them, and they don’t have the assets that most of us do to pay off the loan if they had to,so they lose their home when trouble hits.

          Poverty is relative, and you can’t compare poverty in one country w/ that in another. What matters is how people in poverty in this country compare to the middle class. If there are 45 million people here who can’t afford to see a doctor or get a needed surgery done,don’t you think that’s a problem no matter what you call it? If we have millions living in slums and ghettos and gang/drug neighborhoods and trying to raise kids in that environment, isn’t that a problem? Real poverty and it’s effects on every generation of kids growing up in it and affecting the entire country w/ increased crime,poor educational skills,costs of prisons,more police needed, is a huge problem that our system has tried to cope w/ for decades but never quite fixes…partly because of the total disconnect and lack of compassion and pragmatism from most ‘conservatives’. They always fight against efforts to improve the country for the benefit of all of us, because basically they’re cheap/greedy and everything comes down to $$ for them…even if their own kids and families are better off in a safer and more prosperous society…

          And most of those ‘conservatives’ are pretending to follow Jesus,who said give away your wealth to the less fortunate.

          • (WIA) Wild Indian in Action

            DO DO niso, how much of your $$ do you give to all these “Poverty Stricken” ? Blah Blah Blah. Dumiso being poor is a choice, just as being on welfare is a choice. There is only one Utopia and that is where you go and be polite and (offensive words removed)

          • Denniso

            You rant and probably your mind as well are subpar…beneath any threshold that would encourage a response. Try meditation and reading for some self improvement.

          • Dan az

            WIA
            Welcome back It was good to see the gfys back to!

          • http://eddie47d@gmail.com eddie47d

            Dan; There is always someone willing to welcome back the foul mouthed. I guess it’s your turn.

          • minnie

            You need to sell your computer stop paying for your internet give that money to the extremely poor, put your money where your mouth is. On my way home today I just saw a guy JUMP OUT of a pickup bed, took out his wheel chair himself, I saw this as I was waiting for the light to change. He sits himself on his chair with a sign saying, ANY CHANGE WILL HELP HOMELESS. The truck then speeds off. He is also a hypocrite.

          • Denniso

            Have you never heard of corporate fraud,military contractor fraud,Enron,Bernie Madoff,Jack Abramoff? Do you remember that Haliburton ripped off the taxpayers by sell gasoline to the military in Iraq at something like triple their cost?

            There is fraud and corruption all around,and it’s certainly not limited to the poor and small individual. The greatest waste of your tax money is in corporate fraud and subsidies to some of the biggest and wealthiest companies.

      • TIME

        DO,
        Ever been to say; Mexico City’s outer areas?
        How about Africia, where the average Yearly income is $120.00 thats a full years income. Now please tell me all about the POOR.

        I grew up poor, but after seening what “real Poverty” was I came to understand that we were WEALTHY!

        We ate food every day, had clean water, cloths even being hand me downs.
        We had a roof over our heads, lights, even a car and a single B&W TV with rabit ears.

      • (WIA) Wild Indian in Action

        DO DO-niso, Please show us your DVD documentary of all the poverty you are blah-blah-ing about, or just be polite and go (offensive words removed) Utopia Cuba.

        • Karolyn

          WIA – About 3 hours ago I posted 5 links to Youtube videos of the poor. They were not posted because they were being “moderated.” (censored?) I wonder if they will show up, or does Mr. Livingston not want conservatives to see videos of the poor?????

          • libertytrain

            Multiple links do not usually work – they are automatically sent to moderation – no one has time to worry about censoring – so don’t be paranoid – give it a while or try posting them individually as has been suggested by several of us in many, many posts in the past.

          • minnie

            We already seen them, we also saw the picture of mr. obama living in africa in real poverty while mr. bho was, is spending millions. Need I say more.

          • libertytrain

            Minnie – good point – why are his family members on welfare here or living in extreme poverty? He’s made a tidy sum – I wonder why he’s not aiding his own family?

          • Karolyn

            Point of fact, Liberty, is that you don’t know what he is or is not doing.

          • libertytrain

            Karolyn you are correct – he did somehow manage to get his illegal alien auntie status to remain in this country on welfare -

    • Carlucci

      You are exactly right. So many diseases are caused purely from lifestyle and poor eating habits. People don’t realize that their allopathic doctors are doing them a terrible disservice by putting them on anti-depressants and other dangerous pharmaceuticals, when the real problems stem from eating dead processed fast and junk foods. How can anyone feel happy or joyful when they aren’t feeding their brain and body with good whole foods? Then we all become at risk because the pharmaceuticals are being peed into the water supply. There is no focus on wellness in this country, only managing illness.

      • Karolyn

        Absolutely right. I haven’t had health insurance since 1998 and haven’t needed it because I take care of my own health. However, I did take advantage of a state health care program in New Jersey when my business was failing. If it had not been for that program, I would not have found out that I have hepatitis c. Actually, I still would not know because I never had symptoms. But, finding out that I had it made me pay more attention to my health and to do a great deal of research into nutrition and health. At the age of 63, all I have is the usual aches and pains. I do believe that one’s genes plays a big role in one’s health too. I come from healthy Polish peasant stock!

  • BEEYE

    Any of our congress people that do not vote to repeal all of the Obama care package on health care should be recalled, as they are violating the oath of office they took. Why does any one think that they are owed anything beyond life, liberty,and the opportunity to EARN their own way in this world. If they are two lazy to earn their own living, instead of having to steal it, wheather by self or GOVERMENT doing it for them, then they should do the right thing and self abort

    • Denniso

      Ummm, the phrase is…’life,liberty and the pursuit of happiness’. There’s another phrase you may want to remember, ‘to promote the general welfare’.

      • TIME

        DO – “To promote general welfair,” I think you may have this a tad distorted in your intepertation dude.

        Its has nothing to do with “FREE HEATH CARE.”

        It means that you can be free to do as you wish as long as it dose not infringe others rights.
        (That “simple Laws” will be used to maintain a civil state.)
        Nothing more and nothing less.

        It dose not mean that the Government will give you “free stuff”, nor force one to buy something.

        • Denniso

          Another pretend Christian who has nothing but disdain for helping poor working people and those who can’t work? Besides, even the working poor pay taxes…gas tax,property tax,sales tax,car registration tax…very few people in this country actually pay no tax.

          • (WIA) Wild Indian in Action

            DO DO niso what the hell is “working” class poor? Fellow your sure have a bad case of cranial, rectal insertions. Now be polite and go (offensive word removed) yourself in your basement.

          • libertytrain

            It’s always such a treat to have someone who must be ordained by God to determine with such certainty who the real Christians are and are not…especially someone who realized in grade school the fallacy of the whole Christianity/religion thing in his opinion.

          • 45caliber

            But those on welfare certainly don’t pay as much as they get from the taxes, do they.

          • TIME

            DenO,
            Now what makes you think I am a Christian? You don’t know me now do you? I feel that Christians who are “true to their beliefs” are VERY GOOD people and I will stand with them any day of the week.
            Yet oddly the fake ones I agree with you on.

            Perhaps you need a crash course again we have given to charitys now for well over 30 years the total amount we have given is mind numbing and we are so blessed and happy to have done so.
            More than likly if you worked twenty five life times you still could not even dent what we have given.
            As a matter of fact with just our time alone we have helped countless people get back on their feet.

            Be that as it may its a HUMAN condition and not a condition based on beliefs that compells us to give. Also we do so from our hearts, not due to keeping up with someone or being forced into anything. all we look for in return is that whom ever we have aided will become strong and be able to help someone else.

            Perhaps you should stop and reflect on what it means to be a positive person.
            Take a homeless person to lunch, help out at a local shelter serve a Christmas meal to hundreds of homeless folks we will be this year again, bring them some presents for their kids, Books I find are great gifts for kids, it helps them grow in a positive way.
            Thanks for your thoughts.

          • Karolyn

            WIA – DUH! There ARE people who work and are still poor!

          • Denniso

            Time, I’m glad you help…I do too as do many people. But it’s clearly not enough to address the systemic problem we have. Most poor people want to work and many won’t take handouts. We need an economic system that works for all those who want to work…we don’t have it. How can it be Christian or American to have adults working to support a family at $7 or $8/hr??

      • Kate8

        Denniso – The term “welfare” did not exist as a government program at that time. It refers to government keeping us safe from crime and invasion so that we can freely tend to our own pursuits.

        It was the Progressives who hijacked the term for their programs. It sounded better than ‘hand-outs’.

      • minnie

        To promote the general welfare, TAKE the opportunity and go work in a nursing home LIKE ALOT OF PEOPLE THAT do have health insurance. SOME of those cannot not afford cell phones, computers like you or pay internet, OR CABLE. nO CAR, NEED TO TAKE THE BUS SOME TAKE 2 BUSES TO WORK. NO EXPERIENCE NEEDED, JUST WILLING TO MAKE A BETTER LIFE, IF YOU EARN YOUR PAY YOU WILL BE HAPPY.

  • Teresa

    The fact still remains that the Constitution does not MANDATE the government to force you to purchase insurance, which is what Obama is requiring “We the People” to do! That is illegal no matter what way you look at it. So you ask us WHY we are upset….THATS WHY!!!!!!! We are now FORCED back 200 yr. into slavery, into an unjust ruling by a man bent on making his own laws! WE are stuck not only paying ridiculious amounts for the uninsured, there is provisions inside the bill that are so ludicrous it turns the stomach once all is revealed!

    • 45caliber

      Correct. But as they say, “If it might help just one person, we should do it!”

      Of course, they are ignoring the millions who it will harm.

  • http://personaliberty.com Mike W.

    Next time people need to pay attention to who they are voteing for and not pay so much attention to all the show surrounding the person . The liberal’s were able to push Obama through with alot of lies and promises ,and people bought it and some still are . People need to wake up pay attention to the people who are running for office and perhaps next time if there is a next time (The way things are going in the world rite now.)we the people will not vote for people like the one we have now, WHO PASS LAW’S THAT ARE NOT GOOD FOR THE PEOPLE AS A WHOLE OR FOR THE COUNTRY IN GENERAL. If most people do not like the laws being passed then get out an vote do something about it . But for God sake pay attention this time know who you are really voteing for and what the person realy stands for .That way we wont have Law’s and Bill’s passed that are so bad, cause the people we vote in wont put them forth or bring them up . I dont know maybe it’s just a thought but we the people put this guy in office now its up to us the people to fix it .

    • Denniso

      Isn’t that the way our system is supposed to work? Obama got elected w/ 53% of the vote and a lanslide in the electoral vote. Most of the more educated and informed people voted for him and most of them still support him. You can work to unseat him in 2012 and if you do,we’ll live w/ it.

      The extremist rightwing can’t stand to live w/ what our political system gives us,that’s where they fall flat on American democracy. We on the other hand,put up w/ the biggest fool of a president ever in Bush for 8 freaking yrs. We worked to keep another fool,Palin, out of the highest offices in the country. You can get your arses to work and at the same time quit whining and lying about Obama and liberals/progressive/Democrats.

      • http://personaliberty.com Mike W.

        I really don’t think it will take much work to unseat him in 2012 .Now that the real Liberal agenda is out there and with people like you behind it there is not to much to worry about. You are rite 53% of the people voted for him but weres that 53% now? Last time I read your great ones rateings were down below 33% or so. Is that because he is just that poor of a leader or are we all missing something . He is a one timer so get all you can now cause I don’t think people like yourself are going to be to happy in the years to come when your Liberalism gets tossed by the way side . I maybe wrong but I don’t think so . O and by the way nobody is lieing about anything you can read it or see it on any news worthy channel you like or read it any truthful newspaper or magazine your great leader is doing very poorly as a leader . All you need to do is open your eye’s .

      • Don

        denniso, you are an idiot, and probably one of them living off of the Gov. teat !!!

      • Kate8

        Denniso – Educated and informed? Don’t you mean indoctrinated and led?

        • Denniso

          I can only guess that Don is welcome in your little group of wackos?

      • 45caliber

        Denniso:

        He won in 2008. It is now 2010, almost 2011, and your great ‘leader’ hasn’t got that percentage now due to his lack of ability. Keep in mind that just because he won last time, it doesn’t mean that he will next time. A lot of independents and even many Democrats no longer believe he is the man to lead.

        Can you handle, “I won!” from a Repub after the next election? And sit back and act nice like you insist we should instead of blasting our leader? I seriously doubt it.

    • minnie

      THE DEAD PEOPLE, MICKEY MOUSE AND DONALS DUCK with the help of ACORN and george soros helped obama cross the FINISH LINE.

  • owldog

    Interesting statistic, although totally unreliable given all the hoopla and hype about “government takeover” “collapse of capitalism” nazi-like “death tribunals” etc. having nothing to do with reality – all brought to you by the right-wing corporate plutocrats who mistakenly promote the perception government as first and foremost as a competitor/threat to the capital markets and business community – rather than representing the common people’s own interests and safety nets.

    Read money-driven medicine, and realize what we are talking about.

    Northern Europeans look at us with pity, while we die and devalue our currency, and waste alll our taxes on useless wars that create more terrorism.

    don’t forget “starve the beast”

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starve_the_beast

  • http://personaliberty.com Mike W.

    In case you have not noticed there owldog says: a large amount of Europe is falling apart rite know due to their Socialist Ways or is all that just a bunch of Capitalist smoke and mirror’s . I doubt it but who know’s . I think we have it rite here CAPITALISM works we just need to put the REPUBLIC back on track again .

  • Stevie B

    Wow Denniso…You and your brain dead bretheren are why I generally don’t bother reading these types of running commentary. I just waisted 10 minutes of my life that I will never get back trying to follow rantings of a blithering idiot. You clearly have NO CLUE about how this country was structured or what it means to be an American citizen.

    • Denniso

      Stevie B, I can only imagine how much time you waste doing other things in your life, also time you will never get back…that’s sort of the way time works,isn’t it? You can never get it back,wasted or not. I’m not sure what sparked your plug for the rant you just delivered,but it would seem you fit in perfectly w/ most of the people on this site. Personal attacks w/ absolutely NO substance at all…kind of like your buddy Limbaugh,’drive by’.

    • Dan az

      Stevie B
      Now thats a fact!But dont give up just yet they will go away for awhile and probably go bother some other site with there gov.paid dribble but rest assured they will be back with no facts,thats just how they are.stick around everyone here needs to expand the truth and get new ideas on whats really taking place.

      • Denniso

        Let’s see some facts from you. How about looking at the monopolies and trusts that had almost total control of the ‘free’ market and the gov’t before Teddy Roosevelt,a Repub,fought back to release the stanglehold that big oil and big steel and big railroads had on the economy and individual’s lives? It was the Fed gov’t that brought competition back to the market and opened up the economy to more citizens. Child labor? Horrible working conditions? Civil rights abuses? 40 hr work week? All brought to you comfy complainers by your federal gov’t…

        • Dan az

          denny
          Just look how well that worked out!Bring in the feds to rape an pelidge all of us that was a good thing!put a social program in that they could steal and say oh by the way you cant retire,that was a good thing.I wounder if the health care comes if that would be a good thing? ya think?No denny the facts just dont cut it we better just go play along with the unicorns and hope something will change.

  • JJ

    Get the government out of the way and let the free enterprise system work. Government regs created this problem and now gov wants to fix it.

    • Denniso

      JJ…you need to read some real history books about the times,most of the country’s existence,before gov’t stepped in to fight big corporate control and the free lunch for the fat cats and big polluters and scammers. W/o some historical perspective,your words don’t mean much.

      • http://eddie47d@gmail.com eddie47d

        So true Denniso

        • Dan az

          special Ed
          Do you know the difference between brown noes and ring around the collar?
          Its your depth perception!

    • 45caliber

      They want to fix it … with more regs.

  • http://MSN.com Alice

    President Obama is trying to help all people who have bad health and have no money to pay to see MD. Many people can’t afford health care even they have a full time job. I can’t afford. For example: I am studying I can’t afford. I protect myself by regular jogging and playing sports. Obama help us. I understand some people never worked and have Medicaid. Some people not qualify for Medicaid…

    • Raggs

      WTF?

      You have got to be kidding!!!!!

    • 45caliber

      Alice:

      I very much doubt that you study. If you did study, you’d be forced to write better than you do or you’d fail.

      It is your choice to not have insurance. It is available. So you can’t make enough to pay for it since you “study”? I paid my way through college by working at the same time. A lot of people do. And it came with insurance.

      Go find a job and plan to take care of yourself rather than demand that the tax-payers provide you with a “free” service because you don’t want to pay for it yourself.

      • Karolyn

        You are just a self-righteous, holier-than-thou person (I refrained from using a derogatory term.) who would never even think about walking in someone else’s shoes before attacking them. As a matter of fact, do you ever think before responding to any comments by the other side of the fence?

        • 45caliber

          I always think. And what I say depends upon the person saying it. I stated that she wasn’t studying or she would be a better writer. And that, unfortunately, is true. No teacher would accept any paper written as she did here. She would automatically get an ‘F’. In fact, I’ve had math teachers who would object to something written this way.

          By the same token if someone on the conservative side provides evidence that he/she is lying, I’ll jump on that too. But I only use the evidence. I don’t call names as you have done.

          • Karolyn

            45 – Could it be that she was not born here???? That was the impression I got.

          • Denniso

            Look at his name..that tells you something about him. There are plenty of rightwingers here who can’t write or think straight and does he go after them? NO,of course not. Try reading some of i41′s ‘work’…

          • http://?? Joe H.

            And then take a look at dennislobbers work as well! I’ve noticed as Nobummers approval rating has dropped over the last few months you democRATS have gotten more and more desperate. I can’t wait to see how you react when Nobummer gets defeated in 2012!!

    • minnie

      STOP YOUR STUDYING GO 2 WORK, that will help you since nobody cares more than you about yourself.

      • Karolyn

        Another self-righteous snob.

  • http://com i41

    Denniso, you definately a confused,uberliberial, numskulled, traitor, to the capitalist styled governmentt. What to cut and who to take care of the needs of the wasteful programs. First end the CRP program, which has been in effect for over 3 decades. It has cost over 400 billion a year. Problems solved, it will make landowners get off their dead a$$es and quitw getting free money for do nothing. This includes ending welfare programs, such as housing, free medical, and food stamps. Problems solved, ID the fathers of offspring, they and the mothers wheather married or not work to pay costs. There is alway garbage clean up on highways and weed control at minium wage. This would save cities, states and federal money out lays. Work time would cut down the screwing like rats. Prison need to put the cons out trimming back roads in chain gangs and especially gang bangers. Also these dinks can be made to produce the food for all welfare and all prisons. Chain gangs would use weed whips to cut grasses and pull weeds and gather junk. It would be all green energy and effiecent renewable power. It would keep the morons in shape and they would not be boggering after the light go out. Tell the ACLU to get f–ked, when cons get arrested they forfeit their rights. The non violent idoits could learn a trade and put up housing on public lands, it would end the corruption in buying land. This would promote everyones general welfare 7 days a week. The misfits could also be used to clear snow banks on highways and sidewalks. Year around work, spring clean ups as well as fall trash and leaves clean up. There is not any poverty in the USA just lazy a$$ed welfare idoits and slugs of society. Gettos are sorry miority generational wards of the government as all on and off the reservations.

    • 45caliber

      At one time Welfare contained a clause that said that if any political entity could come up with a better system, they could take themselves out of the Welfare system.

      Some town in Maryland put every person in town to work for the city. Some of them (like many single mothers) had a job caring for their children. Men picked up paper.

      After six months they still had three people employed. Everyone else had quit after finding a better paying job.

      They made their mistake by telling other towns of their success. The Welfare Dept. went to court. The court insisted that everyone had the right to live without being force to work. Apparently the welfare dept considered it slavery to be forced to take a job to get enough money to live. The court agreed.

    • Karolyn

      i41 – Check out the youtube links I posted with the faces of poverty. Take a drive through the lovely countryside of Appalachia.

  • Al

    No matter how much taxes Americans pay it goes through the filtration system called “Federal Reserve System” collected by IRS… created by Federal Reserve System. They are a private entity legalized by congress.
    Politicians have unlimited access to the tax dollars without having to answer to the tax payers… because FRS is a private entity.
    The elitists are heading toward one world order by means of IMF and the world bank. Most of the Latin countries have bowed out or paying off their debt in order to bow out. Our politicians classified those who oppose their will as evil ones. The healthcare bill is just one of the controlling mechanics… like gun control is not about guns, it’s about control.
    I don’t want to elaborate more than I have to but this has been going on for the past 97 years.

    • Denniso

      We have something like 25,000 murders a year,most w/ guns. Gun laws,like laws for the operation of a car, are intended to make society safer. Why don’t you read some history of the old west or days of al capone to see if that’s the sort of country you want your kids to live in.
      We’ve tried living w/ everyone carrying guns around and we are trying to move past the wild west days. You want to play w/ guns,join a cowboy shoot em up club.

      Do you complain that you need a car license?

      • http://personaliberty.com Mike W.

        I disagree if more people carried guns we proably wouldn’t have to listen to people like you all the time . Because you would be hidding under your liberal blanket to scarred to show your face in public .

        • Denniso

          It would be interesting to have you say that in person rather than in front of your computer…of course,like most big talkers you’re a coward and wouldn’t dare.

      • Dan az

        dipsoiod
        You are such an azz try bring that argument to the states that have the lowest gun crimes.You remind me of chicken little the sky is falling and where killing the earth by just breathing get a life man and in fact get a job!

        • Denniso

          NY city has one of the lowest rates of murder and has one of the toughest gun laws in the country.

      • 45caliber

        Denniso:

        Please do a little reading on what the old West was REALLY like. Newspapers then tended to want to build up stories just as they do today. It increased reader membership which increased profits.

        Most of those in the old West never fired a gun in anger – unless they were in the Civil War. Any group has criminals – we have plenty today. But in the old West the criminals were far more careful than they were today.

        I once saw an article by a reporter who interviewed people who shot up the Dalton Gang in Minnesota. There were even women involved in the shooting. One remark caught my eye.

        “It was really nice of them to drop by here. It broke up the boredom. I hope some more come around.”

        Except for Indians (and yes, that was a war) the West wasn’t all that violent except around gold-towns. And even those were blown out of proportion. Life was mainly hard work and boredom.

        • Denniso

          I grew up reading and learning about the old west…very few laws and many criminals never caught. Gunfights were actually a real aspect of most of the west. Women were essentially helpless pawns in a male dominated world and kids were near slaves. Education? Not much.

          • Denniso

            I forgot, there were towns where no guns were allowed for carrying…

      • 45caliber

        Denniso:

        Getting rid of guns will not help the murder rates. It will only mean the method of murder changes.

        As a professor in college once told our class: “If you really want to get rid of crime, it is easy. All you have to do is institute a police state. But that means losing all your own freedoms.”

        I don’t think it is worth that. Apparently you do.

        • Denniso

          The drug war that has cost us about a trillion $$ so far, Nixon and J Edgar Hoover’s use of the CIA to harrass and spy on political enemies, and Bush’s surveilance of American citizens are three of the greatest examples of police state behavior…the Repubs and you guys didn’t and don’t raise an eyelid about the actual police state episodes in the country. Why?? Party loyalty? I think so…

          • 45caliber

            Kind of hard to call it “party loyalty” when I’m not a member of the GOP. In actual fact, I am a registered Democrat.

          • Denniso

            Why don’t you address what I posted above? I’m curious what you think about those examples of police state behavior.

      • http://?? Joe H.

        Dennislobber,
        show me the stats on how many of those murders were actually murders and not legal self defense! Also, show me how many of the actual murders were committed with legally obtained weapons. next show me how many murders were committed with knives, clubs, all other types of weapons and whether you want to outlaw baseball bats as well!!

        • Denniso

          Like I’ve said many times before on this site…if gun ownership reduced crime then why does the U.S. have some of the highest rates of violent crime in the world,excluding the worst of the dysfunctional,poverty wracked and war torn countries,when we also have the most guns of any country in the world? The equation looks to be unbalanced…

  • http://com i41

    Alice, Omoron was worried about health care for people with bad health and cann’t pay to see a MD. Is just a pure BS plan to impelment a government run healthcare and totally government run businesses. There is community MD care for people to pay what they can or it is free. I’ll bet a dime to a hole under a dog’s tail, you voted for the purple lipped marxist muslim and you lean to socialism. If you are studing and have energy to play sports, get a part time job, or work full time to buy your insurance or maybe the company will have insurance. If you are part time, put the money in a bank account for health care. Medical services suppliers will cut the cost by a 3rd. So they don’t have the massive paperwork crap, plus you can always make payments. Depend on your self, get weaned of the government tit for securityand everything.

    • Dan az

      i41
      Blunt and to the point!Thats what i like about you.

    • 45caliber

      Correct. But there are always those who won’t listen …

  • Polski

    Everything is free for the politicians and corporate CEOs, and corporate executives….but not for the “normal” American citizen.

    • 45caliber

      Polski

      It is also free for all those on welfare. The only common citizens are the tax payers.

    • minnie

      THE NORMAL AMERICAN CITIZEN is a TAXPAYING AMERICAN that buys their own health insurance, so what else were u saying?

  • Raggs

    I think this is a cop-out!

    So these bastards have not even stepped into office yet and already they are selling out… SCREW-UM ALL!… If this is what we have than we have nothing!

  • Polski

    No, it wasn’t the federal government that gave you the 40 hour work week, vacations, retirement, health insurance. It was the UNIONS!!!!!

    • Denniso

      Do you know about the law concerning overtime? Sure,unions helped push things like that through,but it’s the feds who made it into law.

      • Dan az

        Denny whats your point did you think that the workers where going to make it law?

        • Denniso

          My point?? Isn’t it obvious? Most of the rightwingers hate the federal gov’t,and I’m showing that the gov’t has fought against big biz in mandating humane labor laws that benefit all of us and that too many people take for granted,or don’t have a clue where they came from. Some clueless people probably think that corporations gave us the labor structure we now have,rather than the gov’t and labor leaders.

      • minnie

        The UNIONS HELPED the democrats in CONGRESS, THE PAYBACK IS CONGRESS PASSING THE LAWS, CONGRESS PASSES ALL THE LAWS EXCEPT WHEN THE PRESIDENT USES HIS EXECUTIVE POWER. Congress passes also all the laws that I.R.S. enforces on you.

  • Stevie B

    Denniso is proof that the Founding Fathers knew what they were doing when they granted all of us Freedon Of Speech..they knew that would help us all to identify the morons living among us…

    • Dan az

      Stevie now thats what Im talking about!Good job!

    • http://eddie47d@gmail.com eddie47d

      Why does Denniso see your reflection in the mirror?

      • Dan az

        special Ed
        Not a reflection just the picture of one who he admires.

        • Denniso

          Eddie, you do have to wonder at times why we try to talk to these buffoons, when all they want to do is act like juvenile delinqents. Laughable,though not really funny. And I guess they even vote?

          • http://?? Joe H.

            ou have to GUESS we vote after the last election!?!?!? And you call US slow!!!!

          • Denniso

            Just because the rightwing obstructionists won some seats,it doesn’t necessarily follow that you extremists here voted.It could be that most of you sat at your computer churning out angry rants all day on election day,forgetting that it was election day.

  • 45caliber

    Does an opt-out mean that the state would also not have to pay all the taxes required? Does it mean that Oblama can’t use his Internal Security force in the state? Does it mean all the other stupid things in this bill would also not be used in the state?

    • Raggs

      No it means a cop-out!

  • Earl, QUEENS, NY

    I also saw this on CNSnews. (Bipartisan Senate Bill Would Let States Opt Out of Obamacare, But Only If Their Own Programs Are As Stringent
    Wednesday, November 24, 2010) In other words, the states’ systems have to be just as monstrous and unconstitutional as Obummer-care!! We can only hope that Scott Brown will keep his campaign pledge by supporting the repeal of Obummer’s health/hellcare bill. Don’t be like the Alaskan RINO Lisa Jerk-owski, who said she will not vote for repeal!! I get disgusted, not only with Democraps, but also some of these ******* RINOs!!!!

  • 45caliber

    Insurance is not a FREE anything. It simply allows you to pay in advance for any medical problems you have. The only way you might get more than what you paid in is if you get some major medical problem such as cancer. Since most don’t, they help you in that case.

    Too many people believe that if they pay in, they should immediately get all their medical problems solved. And then, after the problems are solved, they shouldn’t have to pay anything else. Sorry … you pay for what you have. It might not be fair – but life isn’t fair. If you believe it should be, you are living in the wrong world. It’s time for you to grow up.

    • Denniso

      Wrong…insurance does indeed give essentially free care to some. You don’t just ‘prepay’ for care. Some people pay in and never use their insurance…healthy,die young,etc. Others begin to pay in and w/in months or even days,have a major illness that can cost the insurance co hundreds of thousands of $$. So,they’ve paid in a few hundred dollars maybe and ‘collect’ maybe $300,000 for their care. Is that not basically free? Many people are healthy until old age so they seldom get out what they pay in ins premiums and may die before they ever cost the co anything of consequence.

      So insurance does give essentially free care to many people and some maybe break even and others pay for no care.

      I’ve driven my 45 w/o a major wreck or large claim on my insurance. I’ve paid for those who have many claims even if their rates go up.
      Health insurance is the same game. We don’t just prepay.

      What’s wrong w/ the healthcare system is that we have money making corporations making often huge profits and giant salaries on the misery of the ill. It’s fundamentally wrong and we see the result,don’t we?

  • Von Neubauer

    I gather from todays minority report……only the “right wing” fringe (for the most part) replies the this sort of idiocy! Just once it would by refreshing to hear from a decently equal numbers of truly thinking individuals debating matters of this importance in a calm intelligent way!

    • 45caliber

      There seems to be a large portion of left wing wingnuts on here today too. What do you consider an educated intelligent conversation? One where everyone else agrees with you? In that case, may I suggest you visit Huffington Post or Daily KOS.

  • JERRY

    help!!!! Do you want to know who Obama really is??? Spend a few bucks and buy his book. ( MY FATHERS DREAMS ) THAT WILL ANSWER A LOT OF THING THAT YOU DON’T UNDERSTAND!! BRING HOME OUR TROOPS AND FORGET ABOUT THOSE CROOKS OVER THERE AND ( PROTECT OR BORDERS LIKE THE PRESIDENT’S ARE SUPPOSED TO DO ) CHECK THIS, CUBA WAS A BEAUTIFUL COUNTRY AND A RICH COUNTRY BEFORE CASTRO. HE NOW KNOW’S THAT HE WAS WRONG AND HE IS NOW SLOWLY CHANGING THINGS BACK TO CAPATALISIM!!
    STUDY STUDY STUDY YOUR HISTORY, FORGET DEM.& REP. THINK OF COUNTRY AND THE FUTURE.. PLEASE CHECK OUT WHOEVER YOU ( VOTE )FOR.. THANKS. THE ONLY FREE COUNTRY LEFT!!!!!!! U. S. A

    • 45caliber

      Jerry:

      I simply cannot push myself to buy one of Oblama’s books so he can get the profit from it. Sorry.

      • Raggs

        .45… Boy that is the freakin truth!!!!

        Some of these people would buy a used piece of toilet paper from that idiot.

      • Karolyn

        How about the library?

  • Samkd

    Some of you surely interpert what Chistians believe totally wrong… Jesus never told anyone that things in life would be free, EXCEPT for SALVATION through belief in Him as God’s Son.. Everything else in life costs something, whether work, money, time, energy, etc… He also never said that the government’s of the lands should control everything about our lives. America’s founding fathers knew quite well, that we as citizens would have to make good decisions in order to keep the country that they fought and died to provide. Our constitution doesn’t say we are to get anything for FREE; and it also doesn’t say that WE THE PEOPLE should just lie down and allow those in power to determine our destiny. What we have today is a President that is more for himself than he is for the country. He isn’t a democrat he is of a socialist/communist upbringing and that is what he is trying to make this country… I urge everyone to oppose this type of thinking, as it is not biblical and it will lead to the ruin of a great nation… Which by the way is what is happeing to all of the European Common Market countries..They are dying in debt because of Socialism and Communism. This is America, we are a REPUBLIC with government BY the PEOPLE and FOR THE PEOPLE. We can only salvage our nation by standing our ground, supporting our Constitution and not allowing anyone or anything bring down our great country..

    • Denniso

      Other than health insurance mandates,would you tell me what Obama has done or is doing that infringes on our rights? I’m serious, I’d like to know what those things may be, in your thinking anyway…

  • Sheila Smith

    Wyden is such a hypocrite. He SPONSORED Obamacare. To mollify us with the statement “…..states to opt out of Federal mandates by 2014 if they are able to satisfy the level of services and coverage provided under the existing law,” is still intrusive and disingenuous. Has Wyden heard of the 10th Amendment that allows states to nullify any Federal law. (encourage readers to go to tenthamendment.com to see what states are doing to stop the Feds) How about the Feds “opt out” of our lives? Approximately the same percentage of people are uninsured in 2010 as those without insurance in 1950. It was not a crisis then, and is not a crisis now. Since Lyndon Johnson signed Medicare/Medicade bill in 1965 all costs have skyrocketed and insurance companies profits have soared since they no longer have to cover the elderly, the highest cost group. Most Americans don’t know how it was before HMOs and government take over of senior medical care. Solution: Return to a 2-party payer system, major medical plans, higher deductibles, health savings accounts and watch health-care costs drop. Return to the days when insurance companies competed for your business by sending salesmen to your door. That’s the way it was and premiums were reasonable until employers started offering health insurance as a benefit (the 3rd party payer system). Americans should be responsible for their own lives, including health insurance.

    I am relieved I moved out of Oregon after 40 years of watching the socialists destroy the state by regulating lives and changing the state constitution to allow (debt) borrowing. Like California, Oregon has become an indebted, nanny state.

  • Karolyn

    “denniso, you are an idiot, and probably one of them living off of the Gov. teat !!!” Why, in your opinion, is everybody who disagrees with you not working???

    • Karolyn

      That was supposed to be a response to Don.

      • Denniso

        Don’s comment to me is all too typical of many rightwingers…they are challenged and they implode w/ rage rather than reason. Is it because they are dumb or ignorant? It’s probably because they haven’t thought through much of anything and their reaction to debate is outrage and blind anger. Not quite all of them,but many, and it seems to be a pattern.

    • http://?? Joe H.

      Dam Karolyn, and here I thought you finally got something right!!! your answer fit dennislobber to a “T”!!!

  • http://com i41

    Because any company that hires, don’t yet know the total costs the healthcare will be. The National Marxist Communist Democrat Union Party idoits have not been able to give any hard numbers of costs. Even though Plastic Nancy said it needed to be past, to see what was in the bill. Just more socialism and total government control over everything, a dictator’s pipe dream for the chocolate marxist muslim jackass and his socialist dumborat lap pooches. They made sure to give the goat riding pervs a pass on abiding with the healthcare boondoogle. As well as a pass for the muslim broodsows in the air ports. Still think the bastard isn’t a pedophile perverted muslim ideological jerk off with a hidden out prayer rug facing east!

    • Denniso

      Hey Don…oh Don, could you check the previous post for grammar and spelling and racism as well? You appear to be asleep at the wheel…

  • Al

    America’s problems:

    Big government
    Unions
    Takers

    These three subjects are invincible and will always be here.

    • Denniso

      America’s problems…Greed,uncontrolled corporate power,rampant consumerism/materialism,war mongering,fanatic religions/fuzzy thinking,low wages,environmental destruction.

      • http://eddie47d@gmail.com eddie47d

        Yes Denniso there are alot of takers on the other side. Al can’t fathom that!

      • http://?? Joe H.

        Dennislobber,
        You forgot one in your list and it’s the most important one…..PROGRESSIVE DEMOCRATS!!!

  • Earl, QUEENS, NY

    We should also bury the myth by liberals/democraps that opposing government health care means opposing health care altogether. Nothing could be further from the truth. Let’s just look at governments’ record on running things. I.e., education. We wouldn’t mind buying vouchers or paying for private or parochial education. But we loathe having to pay for the Dept. of Ed. and the failing public education system being run by government and the NEA. It doesn’t educate. Instead, it indoctrinates kids in political correctness. As for the military, it’s one of the few things our constitution mandates. But it’s the one thing liberals/democraps want to reduce (they always do everything @$$-backward!!). We’d rather see our money go to the military than to corrupt outfits like ACORN or Planned Parenthood, or squandered on other unconstitutional big government programs. As for transportation, we’d have no beef about highways being widened by adding more travel lanes. But we rarely see that. Instead, all we see is highways in no need of repair being torn up and repaved constantly. (Of the states I’ve driven through, Connecticut is probably the worst.) Not only a waste of our tax money, but also a waste of our time and fuel due to roadwork delays. As for the TSA, we’d have no beef it would stop this politically correct BS and use profiling to target our enemies and protect us instead of harassing ordinary Americans.

    And let’s also consider costs. Whether it’s the postal service, social security, Medicare, or whatever, everything government runs seems to be broke or going broke. And looking at Canada or England, we see the kind of hellhole which our health care system will turn into under government control!! Now, seeing how government(s) operate, how can any rational person want to see our entire health care system taken over, and ruined, by any state or the federal government??

    • denniso

      I don’t know who ‘we’ is, but I would never agree to give tax money to religious schools. Who’s religious schools would be acceptable to the variety of people in the country? Would you be willing to use tax money to fund Muslim schools? I don’t think so…what about Hindu schools or schools w/ witchcraft as a religion?

      There is a very good reason why we separate religion from gov’t,and using public tax money to fund religious schools is not even close to being acceptable for millions of Americans,not to mention the violation of the constitution.

      • libertytrain

        Seems to me parents have been getting money from the gov to send their kids to private schools for quite some time now – lots of links out there regarding same and many private schools have religions attached to them?

        • denniso

          I think people can get a tax deduction for sending kids to private schools,but not religious schools…at least they’d better not be getting my tax money for paying religious schools. Schools should be for learning,not for religious indoctrination,whichever form it takes.

          • libertytrain

            I understand – there are many issues out there re school vouchers and/or tax credits – but it seems they may be more state rather than Federal and quick looks seems that some are out there functioning – at the moment. Bunch of info out there regarding Supreme Court cases regarding same. Here’s an example of Wisconsin for instance – there’s much out there regarding it but I thought this paragraph was interesting and near as I can tell, still in place. New Mexico has something in it’s possible agenda as well.
            Judicial Verdicts
            The Supreme Court of the state of Wisconsin ruled on June 10th, 1998, that the expanded Milwaukee voucher program–which will allow up to 15,000 children to attend any religious or other private school–does not violate either the state or federal constitutions. A link to the complete verdict follows, but please note that due to the size of the page it may be slow to load. Complete verdict.
            This verdict was appealed to the U.S. Supreme Court, but on November 9, 1998, the justices of the U.S. Supreme Court announced that they had voted 8 to 1 not to hear the appeal, and thus to allow the verdict of the Wisconsin Supreme Court to stand. http://www.schoolchoices.org/roo/vouchers.htm

  • Karolyn

    I don’t remember what thread we were discussing S 510 on; but for anyone interested in the bill, here is great news:

    The Senate’s controversial FDA Food Safety Modernization Act (S. 510) now appears to be dead in the water!

    As we reported to you yesterday, the Senate passed its version of the Food Safety bill by a margin of 73 to 25, and sent it on to the House of Representatives for approval. Congressman Henry Waxman (D-CA) had previously agreed to accept the Senate’s bill in place of the House’s version, already approved, so this approval was expected to be pro-forma.

    But it turns out that Section 107 of the Senate bill contains a revenue-raising (i.e., taxing) provision. And such a provision is unconstitutional: “All bills for raising Revenue shall originate in the House of Representatives,” according to Article I, Section 7, of the Constitution. Because the Senate violated the funding origination clause, the House has implemented a procedure known as “blue slipping” to block the bill, keeping it out of consideration and sending it back to the Senate.

    The only possible “quick fix” would be a unanimous consent agreement in the Senate to strike that revenue-raising provision from the bill—but Sen. Tom Coburn (R-OK) has already stated that he will oppose, so unanimity will be impossible. Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid is now faced with some tough choices: spend a huge amount of time all over again to deal with this (which is unlikely in a Lame Duck Congress, especially considering how controversial the bill is); or do nothing, and allow the bill to die at the end of this Congress. This will mean a new Food Safety Bill will be introduced next year—but next year’s Congress will be very different from the current one, so we expect that the bill will look very different, and could be much more favorable to the natural health community.

    As always, we will keep you posted on any new developments.

    Sincerely,
    The Alliance for Natural Health USA

  • JeffS

    Denniso,

    You are a moron. Your superficial knowledge of economics and history have given you some strange sense of self importance. I have a CPA and a master degree in economics and finance. Yes, I know more then you do. Yes, I paid over $80K in taxes last year. You are as damaged as my brother in law that works 37.5 hours a week at his $75K federally funded job and complains how the rich need to pay more. I pay his salary, period. Get you hands out of my pocket, we already pick up most of the tab for this whole friggin country while half live of of our taxes and will continue to vote themselves more hand outs. This country is going to the dogs.

  • http://www.allcarecompany.com Dewey Mcabee

    Streamlining supply chains is vital to the success of many organizations. It goes beyond simply negotiating cheap freight rates.

  • http://.html Gene Preddy

    jay & sigel killed “Reservoir Dogs” … the rest of them (offenisve words removed)

Bottom
close[X]

Sign Up For Personal Liberty Digest™!

PL Badge

Welcome to PersonalLiberty.com,
America's #1 Source for Libertarian News!

To join our group of freedom-loving individuals and to get alerts as well as late-breaking conservative news from Personal Liberty Digest™...

Privacy PolicyYou can opt out at any time. We protect your information like a mother hen. We will not sell or rent your email address to anyone for any reason.