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Can The GOP Really Be This Stupid?

November 29, 2012 by  


 
Hello, I’m Wayne Allyn Root for PersonalLiberty.com. Can the GOP really be this stupid? It appears many GOP Congressmen are suddenly willing to raise taxes. What utter fools. As Forest Gump’s mother (played by Sally Field) said: “Stupid is as stupid does.” And this is world-class stupid.

If GOP politicians can’t figure out any good arguments to oppose tax increases, I’ll give them a few.

First of all, Barack Obama and the Democrats argue that the wealthy don’t pay their “fair share.” Really? The top 1 percent pay 40 percent of all the taxes. That’s not “fair?” They also account, according to The New York Times, for 33 percent of consumer spending and 30 percent of all charitable giving.

So if everyone agrees that allowing a tax increase on the middle class, in the middle of an economic crisis, is bad for business, why would it be OK to raise taxes on the group that makes 33 percent of all purchases in the economy? You mean high-income taxpayers won’t cut down on spending, buying homes, starting businesses and creating jobs? Wow, if that’s true, monkeys can fly, hell is freezing over and Democrats can defy the forces of gravity.

Only those totally ignorant about the economy — those who have never actually created a job — believe the fairy tale that taking money away from the top spenders, investors and job creators isn’t going to further damage the economy.

Secondly, Obama claims that it’s “fair” to go back to “Clinton-era tax rates.” Well, that’s just not true. Under Clinton, there was no Obamacare. The new healthcare law raises taxes dramatically on the highest income earners. So by combining income tax increases with Obamacare taxes, the highest earners will pay substantially more than under Clinton. So Obama’s claim is a lie.

More importantly, Obama is comparing apples to oranges. Economic growth is about more than taxes. It’s about regulations, mandates, entitlements and spending. So the next time Obama suggests it’s “fair” to go back to Clinton-era tax rates, the GOP should say it’s only “fair” to go back to Clinton-era spending, regulations and welfare reform. Let’s agree to roll back all spending, entitlement increases, government programs and regulations enacted since Clinton. That’s the only compromise the GOP should agree to.

Obama and the Democrats also love to point to Ronald Reagan as a man willing to raise taxes. Reagan was actually the greatest tax cutter in American history. He cut income tax rates from 70 percent to 28 percent. This massive tax cut saved the U.S. economy, directly created more than 20 million jobs and motivated record-setting economic growth.

But after all that massive tax-cutting created the greatest economic expansion in history, only then did Reagan agree to compromise and raise a few taxes in return for serious spending reduction. Compromising after the economy has turned around and a magnificent expansion is under way is far different than raising taxes in the middle of an economic crisis. To compare the two is fraud.

Democrats have used Reagan’s “compromise” as an excuse to paint Republicans who refuse to raise taxes as “extreme.” Republicans should turn the tables. Whenever a Democrat like Obama wants to raise taxes, Republicans should point to Democratic hero John F. Kennedy as the ultimate tax cutter and call Democrats “extreme” for ignoring the success of JFK’s tax cuts.

I’m also sick of hearing Democrats call today’s tax rates “historically low.” That is once again a lie. There are many factors that determine your tax bill — like deductions and tax credits. Overall, we are all paying among the highest taxes ever. That is why “Tax Freedom Day” is now set at April 3. That means the average taxpayer has to give the government all his money until April 3 just to pay his tax burden.

Yet in 1900, “Tax Freedom Day” was January 22. Facts don’t lie, folks. If taxes are low, as Obama keeps claiming, then why does it take until April to pay our taxes versus mid-January in 1900? Because Obama is lying. Our tax burden is today just about the highest in history.

Perhaps stupidest of all is the idea of raising “revenue” instead of taxes. GOP politicians spout this nonsense all day long. You can’t claim to be against tax increases but then vote to “raise revenues” by eliminating deductions. How is that different? If my taxes go up, what difference does it make how it gets there. If I used to owe $10,000 to the IRS but now I owe $15,000, didn’t I just lose $5,000? Does it matter if tax rates went up or my deductions were eliminated? You can disguise your words, but you can’t hide the truth.

Here’s some common sense for the economically ignorant in Congress. This entire Great Depression II was created by the collapse in residential real estate values. Reduce or eliminate the mortgage deduction for upper-income taxpayers, and you will automatically wipe out about one-third of the value of every high-end home in America. Entire upscale suburban neighborhoods will be decimated overnight. Foreclosures will skyrocket. Residential real estate will take a final dive, causing a new bank crisis. Wealthy consumers will slow their spending. We are looking at a total collapse of the U.S. economy caused by ignorant politicians. Unfortunately, some of those ignorant politicians are Republicans.

Lastly, Republicans need to point to the EU as an example of high taxes damaging or destroying an economy. If higher taxes help an economy, why is the EU insolvent and on the verge of a Great Depression? Why aren’t Greece, Italy and Spain models of economic success?

Just this week in the U.K. it was proven that tax hikes on the rich are a massive failure. England passed a new tax rate just for millionaires. The result? Either two-thirds of all millionaires left England in the past year or they all stopped working so they could lower their incomes below the threshold. Tax revenues plummeted. The economy is collapsing. The exact opposite of what the brilliant politicians expected, proving that Obama is dead wrong before we even put a higher tax rate for the wealthy in place. The results will be catastrophic, as our friends in the U.K. just proved.

The GOP’s role is not to assist Obama in crippling business owners and job creators, in destroying even more jobs, in damaging the U.S. economy even further. Let him pass everything he wants and do it alone. That way, he’ll commit economic suicide alone, and he’ll have to accept all the blame — alone.

But to go along with Obama would not just hurt the U.S. economy, it would be brand suicide for the Republican Party. Either you stand for lower taxes and more economic freedom or you don’t. Let’s all hold the GOP’s feet to the fire!

I’m Wayne Allyn Root for PersonalLiberty. See you next week. Same time, same place. God Bless.

Wayne Allyn Root

(W.A.R.) is a former Presidential candidate, the 2008 Libertarian Vice Presidential nominee, and a Libertarian-conservative national media star. His new book, “The Ultimate Obama Survival Guide” is a #1 national best-seller in bookstores, as well as an Amazon #1 Finance and Conservative bestseller. A former CNBC anchorman and host (then known as Financial News Network), Root is the ultimate Capitalist Evangelist: a blue-collar S.O.B. (son of a butcher) turned CEO, small businessman, serial entrepreneur, business speaker, and TV/radio commentator on the topics of business, economics, entrepreneurship, and politics. Root is a regular guest on Fox News, as well as on hundreds of conservative talk radio shows across the United States. His opinions reach tens of millions of Americans as a regular columnist and commentator for many of the most popular political and business websites, including FoxNews.com. He also writes regularly for The Washington Times. He is the bestselling author of eight books. Root serves as national spokesman for several companies, as well as a Senior Economic Advisor. Root is also well known in the television and media industries. He has hosted, starred and produced many television shows. Today, he is a producer of the highest-rated television show on Travel Channel. Because of his success in the diverse fields of business, media, sports, entertainment and publishing, Root was awarded his own 180-pound granite star in the Las Vegas Walk of Stars. Only 60 legends in the history of Las Vegas have received a star on Las Vegas Boulevard. A native New Yorker and graduate of prestigious Columbia University, this Capitalist Evangelist proudly resides in Nevada, a state with no income tax. His website is ROOTforAmerica.com.

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  • Buster the Anatolian

    Absolutely correct Wayne.

    • GALT

      Wayne who?

      http://www2.ucsc.edu/whorulesamerica/power/wealth.html

      If GOP politicians can’t figure out any good arguments to oppose tax increases, I’ll give them a few.

      Really? This from someone who’s business sense if so effective that whatever actual business he has actually been engaged in, would NOT survive an Obama second term? COOOOLLLLLL.

      First of all, Barack Obama and the Democrats argue that the wealthy don’t pay their “fair share.” Really? The top 1 percent pay 40 percent of all the taxes. That’s not “fair?” They also account, according to The New York Times, for 33 percent of consumer spending and 30 percent of all charitable giving.

      According to the chart below, which covers the period you “allude to”, nothing much has changed………

      Total Net Worth
      Top 1 percent Next 19 percent Bottom 80 percent
      1983 33.8% 47.5% 18.7%
      1989 37.4% 46.2% 16.5%
      1992 37.2% 46.6% 16.2%
      1995 38.5% 45.4% 16.1%
      1998 38.1% 45.3% 16.6%
      2001 33.4% 51.0% 15.6%
      2004 34.3% 50.3% 15.3%
      2007 34.6% 50.5% 15.0%
      2010 35.4% 53.5% 11.1%

      Financial (Non-Home) Wealth
      Top 1 percent Next 19 percent Bottom 80 percent
      1983 42.9% 48.4% 8.7%
      1989 46.9% 46.5% 6.6%
      1992 45.6% 46.7% 7.7%
      1995 47.2% 45.9% 7.0%
      1998 47.3% 43.6% 9.1%
      2001 39.7% 51.5% 8.7%
      2004 42.2% 50.3% 7.5%
      2007 42.7% 50.3% 7.0%
      2010 42.1% 53.5% 4.7%

      According to the numbers, nothing much has changed in either asset category for the top 1%, and it would seem that the peak in both was 1995/1998………..the dreaded Clinton years with one other fact……a budget surplus which was accompanied by the “prediction” that the “national debt” would be eliminated………..

      BUT, this is not to say there is a NOT clear TREND indicated by the numbers, and that is the decreasing share of “wealth” amongst THE BOTTOM 80%, from a 9.1% peak, to the current 4.7%, which would be a decrease of 50%.

      So to be fair……..the top 20% should be paying, 95% of all the taxes, and consuming 95%, and doing and equal share of charitable giving….. in short……..you aren’t pulling your weight in any category…….with the exception of one very important category…….you idiots who spout this nonsense are providing 100% of the B.S. you expect the rest of us to actually swallow……….

      Only those totally ignorant about the economy — those who have never actually created a job — believe the fairy tale that taking money away from the top spenders, investors and job creators isn’t going to further damage the economy.

      The link provided here……provides “economic information” for the history of the republic…………but here is something that is quite interesting…….

      Table 2: Wealth distribution by type of asset, 2010
      Investment Assets

      Top 1 percent Next 9 percent Bottom 90 percent
      Stocks and mutual funds 35.0% 45.8% 19.2%
      Financial securities 64.4% 29.5% 6.1%
      Trusts 38.0% 43.0% 19.0%
      Business equity 61.4% 30.5% 8.1%
      Non-home real estate 35.5% 43.6% 20.9%
      TOTAL investment assets 50.4% 37.5% 12.0%

      Housing, Liquid Assets, Pension Assets, and Debt
      Top 1 percent Next 9 percent Bottom 90 percent
      Principal residence 9.2% 31.0% 59.8%
      Deposits 28.1% 42.5% 29.5%
      Life insurance 20.6% 34.1% 45.3%
      Pension accounts 15.4% 50.2% 34.5%
      TOTAL other assets 13.0% 37.8% 49.2%
      Debt 5.9% 21.6% 72.5%

      And the last line says it all…………

      But mostly what this tell us is, you and every else is mostly “ignorant” about the economy…….while a “majority” understand that………expecting that the 1% will be a “solution” for the problems of “the economy”……..while you keep trying to “sell this”……qualifies as an indication that the days when it will be possible “to fool most of the people, most of the time”…….has passed.

      This is not to say that any actual intelligence regarding “the economy” or “economics” is to be expected any time soon………this has simply been a comparison of “quantity”……..your simplistic attempt to twist numbers…….and what they really represent……..and of course, another ephemeral concept……..”job creators”……..
      The quality aspect of all of this, is not and will never be a part of this discussion if the 1% have their way……..for “job creators’…….this would include asking…….What kind of Jobs? For what purpose? To what effect?

      OOOOOOHHHHH LLLLOOOOOOOKKKKK OOOOVVVVVEEEEERRRR HHHHEEEEERRRRREE……Ben Crystal has some more idiocy to share…..

      ” To conquer, first DIVIDE!!!! ” ( and then HANG, separately. )

      • Kay Cleveland

        Very well said!

      • Alex Frazier

        The only thing your charts prove (assuming they are accurate) is that some people are motivated and willing to take a risk, while others are not motivated and willing to take a risk. Success will breed further success. The more you have, the more you can make.

        But it’s a plain fact that success is available to anyone who wants to pursue it. You could take $200 and play with penny stocks. In a mere seven to nine trades, you can turn that $200 into $25,000. I know from personal experience. $25,000 can be very easily turned into $50,000, and $50,000 into much more. After a point, there is more than enough capital to be debt free in your personal finances, and there is enough capital to open a small business. A small business, combined with wise investing, will turn into a revenue stream.

        But you have to be willing to take a risk, to put your money on the line. You have to be willing to take a chance and open that business.

        Either way, it’s a plain fact that success can be achieved by anyone in this country. Your charts only prove to demonstrate that a large number of people who could be successful are choosing instead to settle for a standard wage at a simple job, to pay their bills, shop at Walmart, and go bowling on Friday night. Ask those people to invest with you, and they aren’t interested (again, I know from personal experience). Suggest to them how they can take a small amount of money and turn it into much more, and they cry that they have no money (though they have the money to go to restaurants, bowling, etc., and to buy Wii systems and X-Box). You can’t beat success into some people. They just don’t want the risk.

        But they’re glad to take advantage of someone else’s success when they take the risk. “I didn’t put my money on the line, but dang it, they aren’t paying their fair share for being successful after mortgaging their house to build a business I didn’t have the courage to build with them. They should pay more, because they succeeded where I didn’t even bother to try.”

        Let me say this GALT. I don’t care about the economics of it anymore. Wayne is right, and you don’t know what you’re talking about. Nevertheless, my own opinion on this whole thing is that the government is using the law to steal from some and give to others. Taxes are wrong in the first place. They serve a functional purpose. They give us roads, fire departments, etc. But outside of the necessities we all take advantage of, taxes are theft.

        You want to talk about fair shares? How about the 99% start picking up their “fair share” of the losses that result from the risk that goes into starting a business, making an investment, or trying in some other way to earn an honest buck. They have their hands out if someone makes a dollar, but it’s all on us if we lose one. In fact, you act like it’s our just desserts when we lose, though you’re happy to benefit when we don’t.

        As always, liberals are all hypocrites.

      • Right Brain Thinker

        THANK YOU, GALT!!

        As I read Wayne’s latest attempt to turn fiction into “truth”, I said to myself with a groan, “I’m going to have to spend way too much time answering the lies that appear in just about every sentence in Wayne’s latest opinions-unsupported-by-facts article’”.

        It gives me great pleasure to see that you’ve done the job already and I can just add a few more FACTS and later joust with the STOOGES when they appear on site. (Jousting with stooges is great anti-Alzheimer’s therapy—better than crossword puzzles).

        An interesting piece by Harold Myerson in the WashPost on 11/23 entitled “What the ‘takers’ want”. He makes the point that the people who are constantly derided as the “takers” by the self-deluded supporters of the plutocracy are actually the “makers” rather than the other way around as Wayne and friends would have us believe. He concludes by saying “If these self-designated makers feel beleaguered by takers, they have only themselves to blame”.

        A reminder of what one of America’s most successful investors (Warren Buffet) said:

        “I have worked with investors for 60 years and I have yet to see anyone – not even when capital gains rates were 39.9 percent in 1976-77 – shy away from a sensible investment because of the tax rate on the potential gain,” he said
        “People invest to make money, and potential taxes have never scared them off.”

      • Warrior

        Galt, less “private sector” = Slavery. Get off your stupid tax rant. Our so called gubmint has become a den of thiefs.

      • eddie47d

        What’s the matter Warrior you blindly accept “facts” spewed from the right but coldly condemn facts from the left. The super wealthy and Wall Street hacks have also become a “den of thieves”. Kindly look into all the facts instead of following so sheepishly to the drumbeat of the left or right.

      • Right Brain Thinker

        Alex brings out the same tired old “taxes are stealing” and “anyone can get rich” arguments. And, of course, Alex has to suggest that GALT’s figures may not be accurate—pro forma. You can find literally tons of material on the topic but I seriously doubt that anyone can find fault with the raw IRS and BLS and Census data (unless they are trying to be “willfully ignorant”). There are many good sites that look at the question from many directions—look at inequality.org, Visualizing Economics (neat graphic displays), and Who Rules America (from which site GALT extracted much of his data)—-three good ones. Read “United in Our Delusion”, an article by David Cay Johnston, for an illuminating look at American’s knowledge and attitudes on the subject

        Alex says, “Success will breed further success. The more you have, the more you can make”. Yep. This is borne out by looking at the growing income-wealth inequality figures. Yes, it surely does seem that the more the greedy rich “have”, the more they “make”. Too bad it’s all at the expense of the 99% and the greater good of the nation.

        Alex says, “But you have to be willing to take a risk, to put your money on the line”. True enough, but the very richest DON’T put their money on the line. They invest it in non-risky ways that mainly serve to create ever-more obscene wealth at the top rather than create jobs.

        Alex says, “But they’re glad to take advantage of someone else’s success when they take the risk.“ Thanks for reminding us that Goldman-Sachs and all the other vultures took advantage of the modest “success” of the 99% when they nearly destroyed the economy in their greedy risk-taking. Yep, profiting from actions that led to the massive loss of home equity and 401K capital for the 99% is really admirable. Especially when you “hedged” your own losses. Privatizing gain and socializing costs has been the big game of the plutocracy and corporations for a long time, Alex.

        As always, the greedy rich are hypocrites.

      • Gary

        Other than showing typical Democratic Party indoctrination of jealousy and envy is there a point to Galt’s epistle?

      • Bill

        Alex Frazier,
        Very well said. My hat is off to you

      • Goodwater

        To all you tax lovers – to tax one’s labor is pure and simple > SLAVERY. That’s why the Constitution, when created in 1789, did not include an “income tax.” The Founders created a country where individual liberty, self sufficency, creativeness, were the core values to individual prosperity. The robber barrons of 1913 knew that they could control the populus by creating the income tax – the Tax Code is over 73,000 pages long and contains all sorts of schemes to garner votes. Now we have nearly 50% of the populous who pay no taxes and live off the credits, welfare and subsidies written into the Tax Code.

        If you want to live in slavery than move to France, Spain or Greece, but get off my back with your selfish demands to my income which I generate through my HARD work. So get off you @$$ and make a million. I’m fed up with your selfish and greedy demands of my and someone elses labor.

        • http://www.facebook.com/tony.newbill1 Tony Newbill

          You are RIGHT !! Whats the Difference between Tax Slavery or Interest rate Slavery ??

      • Thomas D.W. Segall

        Galt: The figures you cite are devastating. The bottom 80% seem to have lost enormously in their net worth over the twenty-seven years cited. This loss in net worth and the even greater percentage loss in financial assets is destabilizing, and we may be destined to see some serious unrest coming.

        Neither the Russian, Chinese, or Cuban Revolutions had much to do with Karl Marx’s theories. They had everything to do with societies where there was a small class of very rich people and a very large class of people who were poor, felt that they might be becoming more poor, and decided that they had the right to do something about this.

        Your figures suggest that something similar may be happening in USA.

        W.

      • DaveH

        You envy their wealth, Galt? Then do something to earn it from them, instead of participating in the Society of Criminals:
        http://mises.org/daily/4125

      • DaveH

        Tony says — “You are RIGHT !! Whats the Difference between Tax Slavery or Interest rate Slavery ??”.
        Only that one is Force, while the other is voluntary.
        If you don’t like the interest rates offered, Tony, then DON’T borrow their money.

        • http://www.facebook.com/tony.newbill1 Tony Newbill

          DaveH you made My Point !!!

          This is what we are Not Debating regarding the way the capital System supports FREEDOM and its Self reliant function away from Government Controlled economic system that the Founders warned us to Never become dependent on !!!!!
          And the way this Administration Praises Shariah Law and Shariah Finance which Rejects the right to Choose Private Equality that charges Interest on the use of money in the Self reliant Economic markets I say we are all being Played for FOOLS while we are Bleeding dry of our Primary wealth supply !!!!!

      • DaveH

        Brain (Right) says — “He makes the point that the people who are constantly derided as the “takers” by the self-deluded supporters of the plutocracy are actually the “makers” rather than the other way around as Wayne and friends would have us believe”.
        Their is a simple solution to that problem which anybody with any Brains at all can figure out. Those presumed “makers” (really the takers) can simply pool their monies, put in the long hours, take the financial and personal risks, and start their own companies. Since they presume to be the “makers”, then they should have no problem at all out-competing those who they claim to be the falsely-named “makers”.

      • DaveH

        There are definitely problems in our Society relating to certain Rich people and the Politicians. But they are not what the Liberal Progressives would have you believe. It is the very UnFree Markets that have been championed by Liberal Progressives which have led to UnFair Competion and an UnFair Distribution of Wealth.
        Without Government meddling in the Marketplace, the only way Companies could make money would be to please the consumers of their Goods and Services. They would be slaves to the consumers. And any upstart business that had the correct solutions could knock their Bigger Competitors right off their pedestals. That’s why Political Entrepreneurs (as opposed to Market Entrepreneurs) gravitate to the UnFree Markets controlled by Big Government. With Unfree Markets, they can survive and prosper without the Consumers’ blessings, instead getting special favors from their Crony Politicians (such as quotas, tariffs, favorable regulations, subsidies, price controls, and other special protections).
        It is difficult to know whether people like Galt or RBT are shilling for the Crony Politicians and/or the Crony Capitalists, or if they are just innocently ignorant, but innocent or not, the net results are the same — They are playing right into the hands of self-serving Leaders and their well-heeled Pals.

        For Free Markets, Limited Government, Personal Responsibility, Individual Liberty, and the PEACE that naturally comes with those — Think Libertarian, Vote Libertarian:
        http://www.lp.org/platform

        Quit letting the PTBs and their Shills make fools of you.

      • DaveH

        For those who want to learn Truth, instead of the Propaganda that is promoted by the Liberal Progressives:
        http://mises.org/daily/1973

      • moonbeam

        Alex Frazier, Can we talk? I would like to know more about trading and turning $200 into $25,000. I know trading is nothing to take lightly and is not for the faint of heart, but I can certainly afford to risk $200 and work it to my betterment. Is there someway we can talk? PLEASE teach me how to do this. I dibbled and dabbled with this years ago but didn’t know what I was doing and had no teacher.

        How can I contact you or you contact me? How can I get my contact info to you?

      • GALT

        Well, only one attempted response from the “willfully ignorant, functionally illiterate”
        faction…….which begins by questioning the “numbers” being used…….I guess the
        reason for this is……they are “evidence” that call into question the numbers being
        used by “wayne who?” and well as the “conclusions” he attempts to reach in today’s “mushroom feeding ” session………I suppose that since it is an “attempted response”, I should make an attempt to communicate………even though there is a low probability
        of such a result actually taking place………but before we do THAT…..just one more
        set of numbers………( regarding the plight of those “victims” who are the 1% .)

        Table 3: Share of wealth held by the Bottom 99% and Top 1% in the United States, 1922-2007.

        Bottom 99 percent Top 1 percent
        1922 63.3% 36.7%
        1929 55.8% 44.2%
        1933 66.7% 33.3%
        1939 63.6% 36.4%
        1945 70.2% 29.8%
        1949 72.9% 27.1%
        1953 68.8% 31.2%
        1962 68.2% 31.8%
        1965 65.6% 34.4%
        1969 68.9% 31.1%
        1972 70.9% 29.1%
        1976 80.1% 19.9%
        1979 79.5% 20.5%
        1981 75.2% 24.8%
        1983 69.1% 30.9%
        1986 68.1% 31.9%
        1989 64.3% 35.7%
        1992 62.8% 37.2%
        1995 61.5% 38.5%
        1998 61.9% 38.1%
        2001 66.6% 33.4%
        2004 65.7% 34.3%
        2007 65.4% 34.6%

        Dear Alex Frazier,

        Regarding the numbers…….there is a link which will take you to the source, with those
        numbers and a lot more information……….and if you wish to dispute their validity, then
        you have the “information” you require to do so………..hopefully you do understand
        the process of raising a “healthy mushroom”…………I am sorry for disturbing this
        process……by shining a little light on the subject and exposing your actual food
        source for what it is………..

        Now on to your “attempted” response……..which makes no attempt to “dispute”
        either the numbers or the information available with them…….which makes you a
        loyal “mushroom”, but not much of anything else…….and despite “wayne who” s,
        rather glowingly self constructed bio, he is a man on the verge of complete collapse
        in a business sense, reporting that he would not be able to “survive” Obama’s
        second term, or survive the rigor of a tax audit…….but in this sense he is a “job creator”
        at least in the sense that he had an accountant and now a tax lawyer…….so
        in terms of success by example, he also doesn’t seem to have much to offer,
        except a “big mouth” which is now solely devoted to “whining”……and this also
        seems to be in conflict with YOUR message…….

        But it’s a plain fact that success is available to anyone who wants to pursue it. You could take $200 and play with penny stocks. In a mere seven to nine trades, you can turn that $200 into $25,000. I know from personal experience. $25,000 can be very easily turned into $50,000, and $50,000 into much more. After a point, there is more than enough capital to be debt free in your personal finances, and there is enough capital to open a small business. A small business, combined with wise investing, will turn into a revenue stream.

        That’s a very impressive story Alex………I noticed that your personal experience
        begins at the $25,000 to $50, 000 level…….and then extends itself……..but not really,
        because now you talk about opening a small business………also the first part of
        your sequence $200 to $25,000 in seven to nine trades, represents quite a return
        on investment…………..so if this part is so easy……why give up the greater returns
        in penny stocks, for a mere “quite easily gotten”, but mere 100% return…….and why
        give either of that up…..to start a small business……..

        What can be known about YOU to this point is……..you are not very detail oriented….
        you do not question the details regarding “wayne who”s, numbers and fantasies,
        you have no interest is the details regarding conflicting numbers and information….
        and as an “argument”…….you have your own numbers and fantasy……also without
        “details”……..hopefully you do not find this question “offensive”? the “devil” being
        IN THE DETAILS?????

        Either way, it’s a plain fact that success can be achieved by anyone in this
        country.

        I don’t know if that’s useful or true……because the “details” are missing….for
        your success………but more to the point……”anyone” is a meaningless qualifier, what would be of more interest would be what you think of this statement……

        It ’s a plain fact that success can be achieved by EVERYONE in this
        country.

        Please evaluate that…….agree or disagree……true or not true,,,,,and of
        course the why or why not’s regarding your answer……..

        Your charts only prove to demonstrate that a large number of people who could be successful are choosing instead to settle for a standard wage at a simple job, to pay their bills, shop at Walmart, and go bowling on Friday night. Ask those people to invest with you, and they aren’t interested (again, I know from personal experience). Suggest to them how they can take a small amount of money and turn it into much more, and they cry that they have no money (though they have the money to go to restaurants, bowling, etc., and to buy Wii systems and X-Box). You can’t beat success into some people. They just don’t want the risk.

        Well, Alex…..I guess your marketing skills and those “missing details” were not very
        persuasive……..because who could possibly say NO to YOU………or “wayne who”?
        You do of course realize that, you have nothing NEW to offer…….including the
        STORY………..such offers fill my inbox every day…….were responsible for the
        last depression and this one……..nor do they change the fact that the details
        point out that 1% and the wealth they control……are very difficult to displace?????

        Let me say this GALT. I don’t care about the economics of it anymore.

        Of course you do………the 1% are the one’s who don’t care……the difference for
        them is meaningless………but you and ‘wayne who”, are not one of them and probably not even close……..and you are here to listen to wayne……….so while you
        make the claim that “anyone” can do it………and it’s easy…….neither of you
        makes a convincing case……..but at least wayne knows why he is here……..????

        As for your “ignorance ” regarding economics……( which is really willfull ignorance )
        that becomes easier to understand when you make the attempt to evaluate the
        question above “regarding” EVERYONE………and it will also clarify the questions
        that were asked of ‘wayne who”….and his “job creator” fantasy……

        As for my knowledge vs. yours or wayne’s or anyone else’s…….on any subject….
        it would appear that for all the “rhetoric” regarding me……..I’m the one that has
        enough intelligence to be be asking YOU the questions…….about the things
        you claim to already KNOW?

        What I KNOW, is that you DON”T KNOW the answers………or the FACTS…or the
        history……or the SCIENCE or much of anything else……..and my focus is on
        asking the RIGHT QUESTIONS……..which to this point is a waste of time……..
        because despite all the “evidence”……..you all still believe you KNOW things……
        and what you all KNOW is all different and unique, from that which everybody else
        claims to know…….

        This would seem to indicate a clue as to what you all really KNOW?

        But what do I know……I mean, it could just be me????

      • GALT

        What would be more fitting that to have the number ONE “willfully ignorant, functional
        illiterate” David H……weigh in with several posts and links, demonstrating that
        he still has “no clue” what any of the words mean……..provides the usual “self contradictory rhetoric”………in the ever shifting quicksand that is……totally devoid
        of any reality…….the “perfect mushroom”……….in the invalid swamp of ‘economic
        mysticism”….where no fact is ever admitted……no error acknowledged…….and every
        day is a new day…….which has no past……and therefor no future………Hi DaveH.

      • Flashy

        “What would be more fitting that to have the number ONE “willfully ignorant, functional
        illiterate” David H……weigh in with several posts and links, demonstrating that
        he still has “no clue” what any of the words mean” <— Galt

        You noticed it as well

      • RichE

        GALT,
        “The top 1 percent pay 40 percent of all the taxes.” This is a misleading statistic; it implies tax-rate while using tax-burden. For example: If we pay the same tax-rate (20% each) and GALT you make $100,000 and I make $1,000,000 the total tax paid would be $220,000. You would pay only 9% while I would pay a whopping pay 91%. Does that sound fair to you GALT? You only pay 9% of all the taxes while I pay 91%.

        Using the numbers for 2010 (35.4% and 42.1%) then the top 1% overpaid by 4.6% or underpaid by 2.1%. I’m suspicioning the 40% number. I bet it’s closer to 9%.

      • http://www.facebook.com/peter.b.rutkiewicz Peter B Rutkiewicz

        Many great posts, Galt. You have the “Con”.

      • Vicki

        GALT writes:
        “Top 1 percent Next 9 percent Bottom 90 percent
        .
        .
        .
        …..Debt 5.9% 21.6% 72.5%

        And the last line says it all…………”
        ____________________________________________

        Yes it does. The bottom 90% (thus the majority of voters) looks a lot like tax and SPEND Democrats who to this day, using the force of government, spend much more of other peoples money than they STEAL at gunpoint and they BORROW the rest on the promise that they can STEAL that money in the near future.

      • GALT

        I’m sorry, Peter……the “con” of what? That would have required a valid argument to
        have been made in the first place, which is further required to be based on a valid
        logically reasoned FACT based foundation…….

        This subject is about is about the ‘economy’ which is based on “economics” which
        is “invalid”……..because it has no factual foundation……and why it doesn’t work in
        any form……..this is the history of every economy, with every form of government,
        and of every empire since the dawn of civilization………you are simply fortunate
        enough to be witnessing history repeating itself, for the LAST TIME!

        You might say…….this is the FINAL CON?

        Of course there is one advantage that the “willfully ignorant, functional illiterates” do have…..

        they get to be surprised AGAIN, for the LAST TIME!

      • DaveH

        Galt says — “What would be more fitting that to have the number ONE “willfully ignorant, functional illiterate” David H……weigh in with several posts and links, demonstrating that
        he still has “no clue” what any of the words mean”.

        Flashman says (to above comment) — “You noticed it as well”.

        As usual the Liberal Progressives demonstrate their childish techniques of ad hominem attacks in lieu of facts. I feel like I’ve been transported back to the past and into grammar school again.

      • Ted G

        Its still the spending stupid! It always has been and it always will be!

        I said this before and I will continue to repeat ad naseum, All you hear from politicians and pundits alike is the topic of taxes and how they have to be raised. They do not! The federal government needs to be pulled back in to its proper Constitutional limits.

        Its that simple!

      • GALT

        Poor DavidH still hasn’t learned that both “willfull ignorance” and “functional illiteracy”
        are “conditions” which are demonstrated by “evidence” that the he insistently and consistently provides, day after day……….that the fact that he is both of these, is revealed
        day after day……each and every time he responds to me ( or rather attempts to respond )

        They are not personal attacks, they are revealed truths…….and they are simply noted
        as the FACTS they are………..and they are certainly not logical fallacies, that would imply that an argument is being made……when no argument has yet to be advanced……

        One does not argue the validity of economics, by calling some one a socialist or communist while claiming to be a capitalist…….one simply demonstrates that one is and
        remains “willfully ignorant” of the “subject” ( repeated numerous times )……as well as
        being a ‘functional illiterate” for failing to comprehend what has been repeatedly written again and again, as to why this is true, and ignoring the history, philosophy, science
        and economic sources which support the argument for this subject.

        Other the other hand, DavidH is quite capable of showing that while he does not comprehend what a logical fallacy is, he is a master of both the ad hominum attack, the personal; attack……and every other type of fallacy…..while being.completely oblivious
        of what he is doing or has done.

        “You envy their wealth, Galt? Then do something to earn it from them, instead of participating in the Society of Criminals:
        http://mises.org/daily/4125

        Here he asks a question, answers for me, labels me a criminal, and sends me to his
        economic authority……..( economics is invalid ! )

        For those who want to learn Truth, instead of the Propaganda that is promoted by the Liberal Progressives:
        http://mises.org/daily/1973

        Here he claims the TRUTH, cites liberal progressives…….two words which he does not
        understand…….whose definitions contain zero economic references,….and then invokes
        an economic authority………… ( economics is invalid ! )

        As usual the Liberal Progressives demonstrate their childish techniques of ad hominem attacks in lieu of facts. I feel like I’ve been transported back to the past and into grammar school again.

        Well as his final demonstration is complete…..as least he has found himself in the right place……..of course he didn’t learn much the first time through and things are much worse now………..( and economics is still invalid! )

        Of course….”tomorrow is another day”….and this will have to be repeated again……

        He who is a “willfully ignorant, functional illiterate”, has no past nor any future……
        and while it all seems to be “the same f….ing day”,…….at least one can saves the “posts” and repeat them……

        Economics is INVALID!!!!!!

      • JC

        So, let me get this straight…Obama has promised over 100 trillion in spending over the next 12 years to cover Medicare, Medicaid, Social Security and Obamacare…and the solution is to “tax the rich” to the tune of 85 billion to cover this? Hmmm…let’s see, we do some basic math and Whoa!!
        This “Tax the Rich” scam only covers 1% of all the promised spending!
        Wait that can’t be possible…unless of course the plan is to pacify the parasites, get the votes, destroy what’s left of free enterprise America, and dump the problem on the next President.

        One might say He’s fiddling while Rome burns.
        And somehow…the morons who asked for this, are applauding.

        Pathetic.

      • Vicki

        GALT writes:
        “Economics is INVALID!!!!!!”

        If economics is invalid then why does the government need OUR money? It can go print its own. (Oh wait :) )

      • michiganminuteman

        You think your so much smarter than everyone else but my advice to you sir Galt, brush up on your grammer and people might take you more seriously.

        • http://smoovious.wordpress.com Smoovious Laxness

          > You think your so much smarter than everyone else but my
          > advice to you sir Galt, brush up on your grammer and
          > people might take you more seriously.

          “You think you’re so much smarter than everyone else, but, my advice to you, Sir Galt, is to brush up on your grammar, and people might take you more seriously.”

          FTFY

          – Smoov (in Michigan)

          • http://pmbalele.wordpress.com pmbalele

            You care worried about grammar? What grammar? Grammar is for lawyers and book writers. In fact the way you speak, if it’s your language, is grammatically correct. This bookish language you read is for people who want to make money of gullible people. You cannot correct somebody of his or her language. There are all kinds of slangs in different parts of this country. Have you listened how Bob Dole pronounces “President”? He says “Present”. So be it with your grammar.

      • GALT

        Actually what you need to get straight JC is that these are responses to “wayne who”?
        solutions……..and what he believes is the “problem” ( his problem mostly )……and what
        he believes is NOT the solution, because of the numbers he posts, which because the burdens they impose will prevent job creation and investment……

        The actual numbers do NOT indicate this, nor does the history…….and wealth disparity
        is at it’s greatest level, despite the fact that both taxation and regulation were far greater
        burdens than in the past………

        Wealth preservation by those who actually have it, does not seem to be a problem, now
        or in the past……..of course, the idea that ‘actual wealth” can be preserved……is a tricky
        one………and has proven quite ephemeral….in other times and places…….and in many
        ways the ability to maintain this illusion is all that stands between them and another truth…….for while it has never been true that all men were created equal, those who are more equal than others when this illusion is no longer in place, usually ends very badly
        for those who believed that wealth could be preserved and refused to do what was necessary to preserve the illusion…….only to find out that they are now less than equal
        and have nothing at all.

        It probably won’t make anything straighter for you…….but then you really had nothing to
        contribute to the discussion anyway…….who knows, maybe you’ll do better next time.

      • GALT

        Really, michiganminuteman, do you promise?

        Do you think that will cure the “willfully ignorant, functional illiterates”?

        Will it cure you? Seriously?

      • Vicki

        GALT writes:
        “…despite the fact that both taxation and regulation were far greater
        burdens than in the past…”

        Actual taxes paid or marginal tax rate? Regulation is obviously far greater now then in the past as the government is FAR bigger and getting into FAR more things. And don’t forget the CRONY part of that liberal whipping dog, Capitalism.

      • http://gravatar.com/bychoosing Wake The Sleepers(Jay)

        Wonderful post, Mr. Frazier!!!

      • http://gravatar.com/bychoosing Wake The Sleepers(Jay)

        Right brain: A reminder of what one of America’s most successful investors (Warren Buffet)

        Warren Buffoon? Really? One of the biggest crooks second only to Soros? You have got to be kidding, Brain? Playing by the rules is not in Mr. Bufoon’s dictionary. Did it escape your memory, Brain, that the day that the SEC notified Moody’s that it was being investigated, Warren Buffoon sold nearly 700,000 shares of stock prior to the public release of the information. Don’t you think it a bit ironic that the reason Moody’s was being investigated was for a long-term pattern of corruption. As you know, Moody is one of the rating agencies which rate the quality of securities, and what do you know?; their ratings were FUDGED. Did you happen to forget that little bit of history, Mr. Brainiac? Btw, that was one of the factors in the financial collapse of 2008, Mr. Brain! Of course, Mr. Buffoon will claim that its all just a “coincidence” but that’s what crooks like Warren the Buffoon always claim. Would you like to know just how much corruption really exists in the world of the Buffets and the Soros’? The next time you hear about a “big-announcement”, “positive or negative”, one that affects the price of stock, look back prior to the announcement, and look at the stock and options volume and price movement…ta da! And you hold this man up as the spokesman and advocate for raising taxes on the middle-class? Of course you would, being the useful-idiot that you are!

      • GALT

        Vicki, both marginal and effective tax rates were higher, the deductions still existed,
        but rates were different…….

        as for regulations, quantity is irrelevant…….and enforcement is the issue…..obvious
        cases of the lack of enforcement…..oil rigs in the gulf, ratings agencies, the S.E.C.
        The F.D.A, gas and oil pipelines, refineries……and if you take the time to read the Fine
        Print, by David Cay Johnston…….the reality is far worse than can you can imagine at the moment…….

        so when I see or hear the phrase job killing regulations…..I come from MO…..and say
        show me……..this will probably become clearer, as the frequency of gas pipelines continue to blow up…….but first I want to see the words in the CFR and then I want to see
        the enforcement……..so if you have some free time……..

      • Bert Cundle Sr.

        But it’s a plain fact that success is available to anyone who wants to pursue it.
        A.F. : Few Winners … Many Loosers! GAMBLEING Pays the HOUSE!

      • JC

        GALT says:
        November 29, 2012 at 7:20 pm
        Actually what you need to get straight JC is that these are responses to “wayne who”?
        solutions……..and what he believes is the “problem” ( his problem mostly )……and what
        he believes is NOT the solution, because of the numbers he posts, which because the burdens they impose will prevent job creation and investment……
        ____________________________________________________________________

        Yeah yeah yeah, blah blah blah….
        Hey Mr. Narcisist…shouldn’t you be busy in front of a mirror preening yourself somewhere?

        You love to run off at the mouth and congratulate yourself with how smart you think you are. You aren’t, you aren’t even clever. So save yourself any replies to me as I have no respect for your or your kind.

        What you do is cloud the simplest and most basic of things with long winded pseudo intellectualism…and that’s as kind as I can be to you or any other conceited Marxist.

        (You got beat up a lot as a kid didn’t you….)

      • GALT

        So in other words JC you got nothing…….you are beaten, battered down, hammered, bested, and otherwise. CONQUERED……..

        You sound like Khan, quoting Melville as Ahab, in Star Trek II.

        “with my last breath I spit at thee…….”

        So die already……learn from your mistakes……..as a mushroom, your upside
        potential is AWESOME…………

        You got the “attitude” down…….now you need the GAME to back it up…..

        GET GAME!!!!!!

        * GAME…….an element that is not available here from any of the mushroom feeders.

        What chance DOOOO….. the “mushrooms” have?

      • Butch

        You need to change yr handle and get Galt off of there. John Galt wasn’t a gleefully ignorant debt slave and shameless lover of taxes to thieves like you. You are a Libtard. Spin your BS numbers however you like, its is NOT our neighbor’s job to work twice as hard to support BOTH of us.

    • wandamurline

      I disagree, I think the Republicans should allow the Democrats to do whatever they want as far as raising taxes. The imbeciles and morons of this country elected them and now they need to pay the price. The younger generation has never had “to do without”, they believe they are entitled to other’s property. This country needs to endure severe pain…so much so that these morons are hurting so badly that they will never ever vote for a communist Democrat again as long as they live. America is going to have to fall down before the patriots can stand her up again, brush her off and once again reclaim our country and the only way to do that is to let the Democrats have what they want….if the Republicans stand against raising taxes, then they will be labeled as the rich man’s party and they will get blamed for anything that happens from these talks. Our country is going over regardless, so why not allow the Democrats to be the ones that allowed it instead of the Republicans. I know that us conservatives will have to weather the storm also, but I believe that we are better prepared to do this than the liberal communists. This is hard for me to say, but if we EVER want to get another conservative in the White House, we are going to have to expose the Democrats with no help from the lame stream medias and the only way to do that is allow them to pass their tax increases…..let it hang around their necks, not ours

      • cawmun cents

        Apparently you dont see the long nightmare of acceptance that comes when socialists take over your nation and snake charm the folks into obscurity…a whole generation will die out before anyone says anything,and by then they will be too afraid.
        You think that because you get quick results down at the fast food restaurant,that you can count on getting smarts to folks who dont posess any in a short amount of time….good luck with that one.
        Lemmee see how that works out for you and a couple of decades from now,call me back.
        You are being duped as we speak,and you dont like it.
        Change will only come through God’s sovreignty,and America isnt about to admit that right now.
        Cheers!
        -CC.

      • DaveH

        Wanda,
        Do you really think the Democrats would ever accept responsibility for their actions?

      • eddie47d

        Will Republicans ever take responsibility for their actions? Hmmm!

        • http://www.facebook.com/tony.newbill1 Tony Newbill

          Eddie47d Obama has been the Leader for 4 years FOOL its he that needs to take responsibility for his actions , inactions !!!

      • http://yahoo david

        this is definately the way i feel this would put a stop to all arguments, obese and an answer to people wanting something for nothing. i am a 47 percenter and that’s about all we have for a president.

      • Vicki

        eddie47d says:
        “Will Republicans ever take responsibility for their actions? Hmmm!”

        They tried. Starting as early as April 2001, But alas the democrats blocked their attempts to avert economic disaster.
        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cMnSp4qEXNM

      • eddie47d

        If that’s true then Vickie I reckon we have come full circle and both parties are at fault and need to drastically change. Tony seems to think its only the Democrats and I see alot of damage being done by the Republicans. So the battle “rages” on.

      • Vicki

        eddie47d says:
        “If that’s true then Vickie I reckon we have come full circle and both parties are at fault and need to drastically change.”

        You may have come full circle. If so welcome to the group that knows that both parties want bigger government. Now the question remains. Do YOU want bigger government? Most of your points seem to say you do.

    • Pastori Balele

      Did you guys read what Dick Morris wrote today? He says the economy is tanking. I believe he wants continue scheming FoxNews and Contributors’ money. The economy is now improving. Unemployment is below 7% national wide and 5% in Madison Wisconsin. The Dow is up 200 points. Nobody should believe him. But I know there are brain-washed right wingers and diehard racists who will believe him anyway. These are the same people who believed him Romney would win. Good luck with your delusions and whims or lies.

      • Flashy

        Dick morris wrote that? So he’s gone from a failed pollster to…economic guru? LOL

        Thing is…all the numbers and indicators are looking for an economic break out coming in 2013. Morris must be working magic on the numbers….lol

      • Bud Tugly

        the most accurate thing about Dick Morris is the name his parents gave him. If Obama personally found the cure for cancer, Morris would declare it a catastrophe for the medical community.

        Let those who have assimilated the most show their appreciation and patriotism by paying their fair share.

      • JeffH

        Pasori says “Unemployment is below 7% national wide and 5% in Madison Wisconsin”.

        US Dept of Labor
        THE EMPLOYMENT SITUATION — OCTOBER 2012
        The unemployment rate was essentially unchanged at 7.9 percent, the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics reported today.

        Wisconsin unemployment rate – October 2012 is 6.9%

      • http://smoovious.wordpress.com Smoovious Laxness

        Unemployment percentages have dropped because of the amount of people who aren’t being counted as seeking employment anymore. If you’re unemployed longer than a certain period of time, you don’t show up in unemployment statistics anymore. If you are no longer eligible for unemployment benefits, you don’t go to the unemployment office anymore, and where do you think those statistics come from? You have to look at the actual numbers of people seeking work, not just those going through unemployment offices.

        Also, the stock market prices have gone up, more due to the on-going debasement of our currency value through printing/issuing more and more money, making every dollar lose value, so it takes more dollars now, to make up the same value that less dollars last year, was able to meet.

        You have to look at the bigger picture of where those statistics and numbers come from, and how they were determined, if you’re going to understand what they mean in the first place.

        This is going to take some effort on your part. Sorry about that, but this is an adult world, and we need to take adult responsibility to keep ourselves properly informed, not just keep taking people’s word for everything without question or even a deeper look.

        – Smoov

    • Vicki

      GALT writes:
      “….So to be fair……..the top 20% should be paying, 95% of all the taxes, and consuming 95%,….”

      You’re in luck.
      http://taxfoundation.org/blog/top-20-percent-households-pay-94-percent-income-taxes

      Only 1% to go. Of course this was JUST income tax.

      One thing I don’t understand though Since the poor get the same benefit from government as the rich, why again is it fair for the poor to pay so little of the tax revenue?

      • GALT

        Probably what you are seeing is the similar illusion that economics presents to you
        when it suggests that money represents the correct measure of success, productivity, asset evaluation, wealth or any number of other things…….

        In terms of “property protection” whether it be from national defense or domestic
        or local service…….who receives more value?

        The billionaire or the homeless person?

        This was a rhetorical question with the use of intentional ironic extremes….since the billionaire will often receive services……with respect to the presence of, and protection
        from the homeless person……..again, if you have some free time and now that
        a proper comparative example has been provided,,,,,,further examples should
        not be beyond your ability to discern for yourself……..run with it.

      • Vicki

        GALT Writes:
        “In terms of “property protection” whether it be from national defense or domestic
        or local service…….who receives more value?

        The billionaire or the homeless person?”

        Since property protection has no meaning to the dead and since government is supposed to protect life, liberty and the PURSUIT of happiness, who receives more value? The billionaire or the homeless person?

      • GALT

        Yup. for the dead, meaning is irrelevant………don’t get carried away Vicki…..I said
        you were useful….I said you were direct…..I said you were not a coward……..

        I didn’t say you were intelligent……..but you may have potential…provided you don’t
        lead off with “dead people”……..

    • Andrew John

      Regardless of the claims and stats of Galt & Rightbrian, no country in the history of the planet Earth has ever taxed or spent its way back into wealth. We are no exception to that historical fact.

      Not mentioned by either geniuses is the unfettered printing of fiat money by the FED which is creating an unseen tax: inflation.

      With a printing press of money, why even bother with taxes? Just print more paper.

      • GALT

        Since no country or it’s economy has actually survived …….the lesson of history is,
        YOU have learned nothing from history…….but thanks for sharing.

        psssssttttt and economics is invalid.

        As for the failure of government: The Social Conquest of Earth; E.O. Wilson

        Will there be anything else?

      • Marty S.

        Excuse me Andrew but I just want to respond to Galt. So Galt,…………..and……………so………………….2+2=………………….while………………..then…………………………………………………………..OK? ………….good luck Galt with trying to convert us with your endless blather and………..c’mon give us a break.

      • GALT

        W………….o………………….w…………, M…………..A…………….R………………T………………….Y

        c…………….a……………n……………………………y……………o………………….u……………………………………d…………..o…………………………T………H…………….i……….S??????????????????

    • http://www.facebook.com/david.ramsey.142 David

      Why not just go over the so-called “fiscal cliff”?

      The Bush tax cuts have long had a termination date. People in Congress voted for them with that understanding. Let them expire. Then no one has to “compromise.” Both sides will be honorable, sticking with their principles. No one will be accused of being a traitor to his/her own philosophy.

      America cannot go on cutting revenue while starting invasions, borrowing money, printing paper currency, and ostrich-like ignoring the $16 trillion debt. Tell Congress to go home (and maybe stay there). Letting the Bush tax cuts end as planned years ago will do less damage than any of the alternatives.

    • bwheeler

      Wayne, absolutely wrong – There was a time when anyone who suggest communism to this country would not be tolerated – The current president has grown up in other countries and knows nothing about the foundations of America which is the freedom for each to pursue his own happiness, individual responsibility and the freedom to worship as one chooses. JFK once said ‘don’t ask what your country can do for you, but ask what you can do for your country’ he must be turning over in his grave about now.

  • CHRISTOPHER ALLEN HORTON

    “Wayne Allyn Root,”

    YOU ARE CONFUSING ME, SIR. A COUPLE OF MONTHS AGO, YOU LEFT LIBERTARIANISM FOR REPUBLICANISM. NOW, YOU ARE CRITICIZING REPUBLICANS.

    “Mr. Root,” WHICH REPUBLICANS REPRESENT Y-O-U-R VALUES? OBVIOUSLY, SINCE YOU “SWITCHED,” YOU CONSIDER SOME [OR, CERTAIN] REPUBLICANS TO HAVE MERIT.

    • Robert Smith

      Here is the way it works, “Can the GOP really be this stupid?”

      Why not say Obama and his team were very bringt and beat all commers? After all, that’s what occurred.

      And! The American PEOPLE agree with that notion and put Obama back in office.

      Sadly, to run down Obama the right seems to want to blame the Republicans for being stupid.

      Oh well… It’s what I’ve learned to expect.

      Rob

      • http://yahoo bob peters

        Robert smith you are either a communist or just a plain ignorant! The only reason obama so called won was because of Pravda and the New world Order..nothing else…The voting was rigged long before the election….But you ignorants jump on the “Yes we can” bandwagon like fools…the Red media told you so…you ignorants will not succeed in taking down this country…People like you doing the dirty work for the handful of Rich elitists of the NWO are fooled into thinking what they want you to believe….They have to crash the economy in order to achieve their ultimate goal…Soon you will be spending the Amero and answering to the U.N.///When it’s all over i hope you are still this proud of your Savior…Some will fight to defend your freedom and win or lose they will be real american heroes..you will be labeled a traitor. 55 years ago when i was a teeneager ,I still remember the real america.. This could never have happened then…how did they corrupt your ignorant minds into what has becoming idiots of the state?? Now you can call me your dirty names,,maybe even Racist or Capitalist,Tea bagger or what ever….You are the clueless one robert! maybe i wont be alive too much longer but until then i can say with fervor”Go F yourself”..

      • Bill

        Bob Peters,
        Great comments, especially the last one

      • DaveH

        Imagine the Power that was handed over to the Russians by ignorant followers in 1917. And then imagine the suffering and premature deaths that accompanied that Power for the next 70 years. Then imagine a World Body such as the UN, which does not even pretend to be elected by the people, wielding much more Power then the Russian Communists ever dreamed of having.
        That is what the ignorant Progressive Followers are delivering us to. It isn’t going to be pretty.

        • http://www.facebook.com/tony.newbill1 Tony Newbill

          DaveH is right and its Starts with All Media control , the TV Medias are already controlled or about to be like they are doing with Fox news this Morning in Europe . Heres the other ways that are coming down the pike and once they divide us in our communications the rest is history !!! http://www.naturalnews.com/038125_United_Nations_internet_global_government.html

      • Vicki

        Robert Smith writes:
        “Sadly, to run down Obama the right seems to want to blame the Republicans for being stupid.”

        Silly them. Blaming Republicans instead of President Bush.

        Robert Smith: “Oh well… It’s what I’ve learned to expect.”

        Much learning yet to come.

      • michiganminuteman

        Vicky, I like you alot! You have a great head on your shoulders. I always like your “take no prisners” responces.

      • Vicki

        michiganminuteman says:
        “Vicky, I like you alot! You have a great head on your shoulders. I always like your “take no prisoners” responses.”

        I try not to. Prisoners are expensive to babysit. :)

  • Harold Olsen

    The wealthy pay more than their fair share. Soaking the wealthy just doesn’t work. That’s why we need a straight flat tax where everyone, regardless of how much we make, pays the same percentage of our income and their are no deductions or loopholes. That is the only fair way to go. However, fairness is something politicians do not believe in, unless, of course, it applies to themselves. One idiot Democrat a couple of weeks ago suggested that the wealthy be taxed at 100% of their income. Yeah, that’s sure fair alright. I’ve said on several occasions that if we were all taxed at 100% of our income, the idiot politicians would still think we were not paying enough in taxes.

    • Robert Smith

      Harold says: “The wealthy pay more than their fair share. Soaking the wealthy just doesn’t work. ”

      Explain to me again how “trickle down” has worked so well.

      Rob

      • Bill

        Rob,
        Trickle down worked great when Reagan was president. Just look at the numbers if you can still add. Jimmy Carter left us an economy where the term stagflation was invented: GDP numbers in the 1-2% range, unemployment running 8-10%, inflation running 15% and mortgage rates running 21%
        These numbers were worse than the numbers that Obama inherited.

        Using trickle down economics, Reagans GDP numbers after his third year in office were running 6-7%. Obamas GDP numbers after 4 years in office are running 1-2%.

        And don’t give me “It was all Bush’s Fault” remark which just shows off your ignorance.

        Where were you in the eighties? Were you working a wage earning job, running your own company or sucking your thumb?

      • Nadzieja Batki

        Trickle down doesn’t work? How is it you are able to afford a computer, plus all the other things you may consider necessities for your life?
        What you are doing on this site is pure intellectual athletics nothing else, or should I say hot air.

        • http://www.facebook.com/tony.newbill1 Tony Newbill

          Lets us consider this one simple Obama Illusion regarding the idea that he is going to increase the income and improve the middle class by conning the republicans into a Bush tax cut extension for the Middle Class and Pay for it by taking the funds from the rich with a Tax hike , all with the illusion that this is an Increase of wealth for the middle Class when its nothing but an extension of what has been in place for the past 10 years ….. Think about this How is this Going to Be any Improvement to the Overall Economy ???

          We will be in the very same place but actually worse off because The people Obama is going to tax will not be producing as much tax revenues because of this oppressive policy that along with the EPA and CIA and FBI raids on companies like Gibson assaulting the operations of the so called free market by Obama Nazis How will any kind of trickle Up or down happen ??????

      • NativeBlood

        Without a substantial manufacturing base, trickle down is ineffective for a worker to meet the sustainable and liveable wage threshold.

      • JC

        Robert Smith says:
        November 29, 2012 at 7:52 am
        Harold says: “The wealthy pay more than their fair share. Soaking the wealthy just doesn’t work. ”

        Explain to me again how “trickle down” has worked so well.
        Rob
        _______________________________________________________________________

        Explain to me how wealth redistribution has worked so well…
        No wait, you don’t have to…we saw how well it worked in Soviet Russia!

    • Alex Frazier

      Harold, do you remember which democrat it was? I’d love to look into that.

    • eddie47d

      The USA prospered in the 50′s and 60′s when taxes were double that they are now . In the early 50′s the tax was 90% and America had a more level playing field. Today the taxes for the wealthy are comparatively low and those wealthy are not creating jobs. Time to bust that myth about protecting the wealthy’s money when they keep screwing the Middle Class. They have more loopholes than Swiss cheese so they really pay much less than posted figures.

      • Neon

        You’re either an idiot or a Party propagandist. While the marginal tax rates were higher in (actually) the late 30′s, 40′s, 50′s, 60′s, and 70′s, there were so many LEGAL government sanctioned tax deductions that that the true rate everyone paid was much, much less. I remember when as a member of the middle class I could write off credit card interest and interest on cars loans, and a whole host of other allowances in order to mitigate the final tax paid. Tip O Neil and Reagan removed those for me. Get educated, or stop the propaganda. In either case quit jerking our chains.

        • http://pmbalele.wordpress.com pmbalele

          In 50s and 60s Black people were not counted as people. Republicans could not care less how Blacks were living or what conditions they were. Please don’t perpetuate such thinking.

      • eddie47d

        Yes Neon not so bright the wealthy (you know that 1-2%) did pay up to 90% in tax and they still remained wealthy. Comprehend ?

      • JC

        pmbalele says:
        November 29, 2012 at 1:50 pm
        In 50s and 60s Black people were not counted as people. Republicans could not care less how Blacks were living or what conditions they were. Please don’t perpetuate such thinking.
        __________________________________________________________________

        And now that black people have been voting Democrat for 50 years they’re still poor, uneducated and living in crime ridden slums…Good Job Democrats! You’ve created a Reservation of Dependant Black Voters in every major city in the US.

        And it’s never going to change as long as “welfare is a way of life and everything is free”.

      • michiganminuteman

        Good point JC!

        • http://pmbalele.wordpress.com pmbalele

          In 50s and 60s Black people were not counted as people. Republicans could care less how Blacks were living or what conditions they were. Please don’t perpetuate such thinking. It won’t work. People of all races now realize they are equal before the law and opportunities, although I know republicans think they are above the law.

      • JC

        pmbalele says:
        November 29, 2012 at 7:54 pm
        In 50s and 60s Black people were not counted as people. Republicans could care less how Blacks were living or what conditions they were. Please don’t perpetuate such thinking. It won’t work. People of all races now realize they are equal before the law and opportunities, although I know republicans think they are above the law
        ____________________________________________________________________

        You completely missed the point.
        The Democrats don’t care either, or things would have improved for the blacks
        …wouldn’t they?
        The fact is Democrat politicians like their “black folk” poor and stupid and dependant on freebies…it’s the only voter base they really can depend on.

        Black people should be given no special treatment and be as equal in society as our Constitution prescribes. But we won’t see it especially now that we have an affirmative action puppet President…elected by the welfare class. “Because he’s black”.
        What a bunch of ignorant racists.

    • http://personaliberty.com A-New-Hope

      Listen it’s not about taxes; it’s about government spending. We could double the taxes on everyong and still be dealing with trillion dollar deficits. Let’s quite talking about taxes and focus on the real problem… irresponsible government spending.

      • Limestone Freedom

        Finally!! Someone who gets it. STOP THE SPENDING!!!

    • DaveH

      Harold says — “The wealthy pay more than their fair share. Soaking the wealthy just doesn’t work. That’s why we need a straight flat tax where everyone, regardless of how much we make, pays the same percentage of our income and their are no deductions or loopholes”.
      Better than that, Harold, would be that all Government Services which can be assigned to Users should be paid by User Fees, and those which couldn’t be assigned to User Fees would be paid by the same dollar amount from every adult in the country. There can be no “fairer” tax than that.
      And that is, essentially, how our Founders set up the funding for the Federal Government, until that wise decision was usurped by the 16th Amendment by unscrupulous Leaders who knew that an Income Tax would allow them to grow Government beyond their predecessors’ wildest dreams.

      • Nadzieja Batki

        But the government doesn’t trust the Users to make good choices for themselves therefore the government decides to make the choices for all. Simply put, it means people who aspire to work with government do not trust themselves to make good choices because there is the uncertainty to those choices, but if they make choices this way en masse they decree that these are good no matter the bad consequences.Their response is more of a fist at God of Heaven to dare to sort this out.

  • anonymous

    do you really think they are doing it by accident?it should be obvious by now that the collapse is by design, not by incompetence.

    • Paul Wells

      Amen, to that! Social & fiscal collapse, by the numbers! It’s the only way we can fall under UN jurisdiction, is for us to completely fumble the football, which we are well on our way to doing, but no one wants to admit it.

      • Douglas C. Smyth

        It is interesting to compare the screeds of the liberal comments with those of the conservative comments. With one or two exceptions, the conservative comments are ungrammatical and poorly spelled. They also don’t make much sense, but they yell a lot. The liberal comments are reasoned and reasonable. Maybe that’s why the conservative comments are so over the top: actual reason is something they apparently can’t abide.

      • cawmun cents

        Move over folks,the grammar Nazi’s have returned….
        Cheers!
        -CC.

    • DaveH

      I doubt it, Anonymous. If so, it would be a risky gambit indeed. Because all sorts of unexpected events can occur when the people become riled. Ask Gaddafi.
      More than likely, they are just acting selfishly and stupidly like people in Power do. As long as they retain their Leadership positions, they will still be on top of the rest of the people even if the economy sucks highly. That’s all that matters to Psychopathic Leaders:
      http://dissidentvoice.org/2008/05/beware-the-psychopath-my-son/

    • Steve E

      The design to collapse the system was written by Cloward and Pivens. Obama studied when he was in college. The design was to keep the sheeple unaware until the collapse happens.

      • http://www.facebook.com/tony.newbill1 Tony Newbill

        Analyze this picture and you can see the Cloward and Piven Plan to Develop Class warfare was On the Chalk Board years earlier , http://oi50.tinypic.com/28syh7a.jpg

      • moonbeam

        Hey Tony, looks like Cloward and Piven were successful in causing division among the people. United we stand. Divided we fall which is exactly what we’re seeing today. Millions of us against an elite group of liars, whores and thieves who need a good old fashion beat down. And we act as if our hands are tied, helpless to stop the destruction. We really need to collectively grow a pair of low hanging, far and wide swinging shiny brass ones.

        Oh the weird, creepy and freaky, fantastic visual…

        • http://www.facebook.com/tony.newbill1 Tony Newbill

          Moonbeam you need to copyright that Imagine and get a Design patent on the image and Utility patent the Brass Ones actions on taking out the Critters along the path back to Liberty Avenue on it too …LOL Think of the Video game Royalties !!!!!!!

  • Ethan

    Wayne, Wayne…you simply refuse to believe that the Republicans and the Democrats are nothing less than two heads on the same beast-! You might as well have the Bananos and the Gambinos running the country. Essentially that’s what they are. They take their marching orders from the same “World Controlling Bankster Criminals” who have them by the short hairs on a down hill pull. If you think [and it often sounds that you do] we still have a Republic with duly elected Representatives…well then…you have the mind of a child.

    • http://gravatar.com/cbgard Carlucci

      anonymous, Paul Wells, and Ethan are all absolutely correct. This hot mess we are in has been in the works for years. It’s called impoverishing the middle class where America will turn into a banana republic and you have only two classes of people – very wealthy or very poor.

      • eddie47d

        The wealthy have done their best to send jobs overseas and taking away worker benefits while paying themselves with handsome benefits and golden parachutes. Their greed is what tanked the Middle Class and some are still the arrogant takers you applaud.

      • DaveH

        Eddie says — “The wealthy have done their best to send jobs overseas and taking away worker benefits while paying themselves with handsome benefits and golden parachutes”.
        Yes, to a simple-minded Liberal Progressive, it might seem a simple task to uproot your company and take it to a foreign country, but it is far from simple. There must be a very great disincentive to stay in the US for the company owners to uproot their companies and their families to move some place far away. Ignorant Liberal Progressive Followers and their Not-So-Innocent Leaders have created that great disincentive by helping themselves to other peoples’ money and choices with Big Government meddling in our Marketplaces.
        The only way to turn things around is to shrink Government dramatically. And with the vast numbers of Propagandized people that now occupy our Once-Great Country, that isn’t very likely. So fasten your seat belts and get ready for some major economic swirling down the drain.
        Ironically, despite all the attacks I suffer from the Ignorant and Self-Serving Liberal Progressives on this board, I have very modest requirements for happiness and a very strong base of financial acumen, so I will do alright in any environment. It is the Propagandized Liberal Progressive Followers who will suffer the most when they get their way. Like the saying goes — “Watch out what you wish for, it might come true”.

      • eddie47d

        Those”ignorant Progressive Liberals” are wide awake Dave H. and aren’t buying what you have been attempting to sell. All your name calling won’t change the dirty tricks from crony capitalism or Wall Street manipulators or even the myriad of banksters. As you have said many times there is no pure Capitalism and you can dream all you want that it will magically arise from the dust. You need to concentrate on the Cronies and change their bad habits before true capitalism will ever be considered credible. I’ll do my part how about doing yours!

      • moonbeam

        Same here DaveH. Same here. Nothing like a quiet simple life, which I never realized just how wonderful it is, is the only way to fly. The more “things” we have the more complicated life becomes. I work hard and I play hard, but my life is simple, quiet, peaceful and comfortable via the road of life’s turmoil and strife. It was worth it. Like they say, what doesn’t kill you makes you stronger…and smarter.

      • DaveH

        Thank you, Moonbeam. And congratulations on achieving your desired life-style.

        Eddie,
        How do we change the Crony Capitalists? By building an even larger Government than the one which created them in the first place? You make no sense, as usual.

      • eddie47d

        That is your spin and personal opinion Dave H. Isn’t it nice to have that freedom?

    • Liberty Minded

      Agreed! Better question for Wayne, “Can you be that stupid, to think there is actually a difference between the 2 party system?”

      • http://gravatar.com/cbgard Carlucci

        I believe Mr. Root is suffering from a severe case of cognitive dissonance. He actually believes that the repulsivecans can solve this problem. That is like asking the fox to guard the hen house.

      • moonbeam

        Carlucci says – “…suffering from a severe case of cognitive dissonance.” I like to call it buyer’s remorse. I’m not as smart as Mr. Root, but I would have never flipped the script like that. We either believe in our principals or we don’t. Pull a switcherooney on folks and all credibility is lost.

        Never take steps backward. I see people do it all the time and they rue the very day they backed up. They happened to be bent forward at the time.

    • Right Brain Thinker

      Read “Winner Take All Politics” for a good analysis that proves how correct Ethan, Carlucci, et al are in what they say here.

  • samspade

    Ann Coulter has a good idea in today’s column…Make the Democrats Own the Obama Economy.
    She says,” They should (the repubs)spend from now until the end of the congressional calendar reading aloud from Thomas Sowell, Richard Epstein, John Lott and Milton Friedman and explaining why Obama’s high tax, massive regulation agenda spells doom for the nation.

    Then some Republicans can say: We think this is a bad idea, but Obama won the election and the media are poised to blame us for whatever happens next, so let’s give his plan a whirl and see how the country likes it.

    And we know that jobs will be lost because the top 2% who will be taxed higher will be forced to lay off workers.

    She finishes with ” Republicans need to get absolute, 100 percent intellectual clarity on who bears responsibility for the next big recession. It is more important to win back the Senate in two years than it is to save the Democrats from their own idiotic tax plan. Unless Republicans give them an out, Democrats won’t be able to hide from what they’ve done.

    Even Democrats might back away from that deal.”

    • Paul Wells

      That would be fine, if only Democrats didn’t lie so much, and frame the debate since they OWN the media!

      • Robert Smith

        Actually Clear Channel is OWNED by Bain Capital, owned by Romney.

        Most of America’s media is OWNED by corporations or idiots like Rupber (Faux News) Murdock, proven to be unethica.

        Rob

      • Robert Smith

        I find it amazing how the FACTS just don’t seem to line up with claims from the right wing.

        Rob

      • eddie47d

        So maybe its the Republicans who “lie so much” and can’t face some of their own failures. There are a few of them that need to be taken out to the wood shed too!

      • Ted G

        Robert and eddie,
        Sure just continue to distract and misdirect the real issues.

        Corruption
        Incompetence
        cronyism
        thievery
        and yes treason
        This is what our federal government and especially this administration has become full of…why should I be forced to pay for more of it?!?

      • eddie47d

        Many of these daily articles are a distraction and not always truthful.

    • Alex Frazier

      I absolutely agree. I was just saying the other day that the one good thing about what Obama is doing is that the financial catastrophe will be so massive that it might be half a century before a Democrat gets in the White House again. I think Ann Coulter is on the money. The Republicans need to spend time publicly educating the population. Let them know how it should be done. But concede to the Democratic “plan.” Let everyone know that they are going along so the failure can’t be laid at their feet under the spin of “the Republicans blocked this or that.”

      Just let the Democrats do it their way 100% so they can take the blame for the fallout 100%.

      • http://none Marly

        The Republicans do not get it. They are playing dictators, while we are leaving in a democratic country where the people have spoken. Ann Coulter think the Republican should educate the people. It seems to me that she is still insulting the American People treating them as ignorant. With her irrational behavior and attitude, she is killing slowly the Republican Party. OMG! Ann Coulter thinks that she is smart as anybody else. She is out of her mind.

      • eddie47d

        Now who is going to educate the Republicans It surely can’t be snippy Ms Ann Coulter who tears bridges down not builds them.

      • Right Brain Thinker

        Works for me!

        I’d be willing to bet all of Bob Livingston’s gold and silver coins that the success of O’Bama’s second term would then be so great that it will guarantee that the REPUBLICANS are the ones that won’t see the inside of the White House for 50 years.

        And Wayne, of course, will bet against me, thereby virtually guaranteeing that I will win the bet. Bet on FORWARD over BACKWARD every time, Wayne, and you might do better.

      • http://www.facebook.com/jerry.pettibone Jerry Pettibone

        I agree with what you said, Alex, about “you can’t beat success into some people”. Maybe they don’t want it, maybe they can’t handle it. We should be grateful for people who contribute to the economy rather than take from it.
        Also, a fair tax is a tax everyone pays. It isn’t fair that so many don’t pay anything. Various percentages have been considered, but it is the same PERCENTAGE for everyone. Yes, there would be exceptions.

      • DaveH

        Actually, Marly, Ann Coulter is a very intelligent lady, even though I don’t agree with a lot of her stands.

        • http://www.facebook.com/tony.newbill1 Tony Newbill

          I agree DaveH she Was a Shover of Romney down Our Throats !!!!!

          • http://pmbalele.wordpress.com pmbalele

            Ann Coulter is one those people who don’t accept the truth. In other words she is delusional. The dumb thing about Ann and her fellow so called right wing women is that they didn’t want to accept that they horrible GOP candidates with terrible and annoying backgrounds. Just imagine Herman Cain, the white women groper being US president; just imagine Mitt Romney who wanted polygamy in the WH, I believe Ann Coulter being 2nd wife, wanted to president; just imagine Perry, the drunk and guy who used the N word wanted to be president; just imagine Santorum the small self-anointed American pope who called Blacks BIT suckers, wanted to be president; just image Michelle Bachman who called us Blacks we were better of as slaves, being president; just imagine Paul, whose candidacy was sponsored by KKK groups, wanted to be president! I think Republicans have a mental disease or blockage. They think Ann Coulter and her so called right wing GOP females own American people as property. They don’t. They are dummies! Let’s enjoy we re-elected President Obama.

      • DaveH

        RBT says — “I’d be willing to bet all of Bob Livingston’s gold and silver coins that the success of O’Bama’s second term would then be so great that it will guarantee that the REPUBLICANS are the ones that won’t see the inside of the White House for 50 years”.
        It took me a while to write this comment because I couldn’t stop laughing at the irony of it.
        http://www.thechortle.com/Chortle23/TheChortle2207_ROFLMAO.png

        Surprise, Surprise, a Liberal Progressive is willing to bet somebody else’s money on his projection. That was classic, RBT. Thank you for that good laugh.

        • http://pmbalele.wordpress.com pmbalele

          Did I post the following: Did you guys read what Dick Morris wrote today? He says the economy is tanking. I believe he wants continue scheming FoxNews and Contributors’ money. The economy is now improving. Unemployment is below 7% national wide and 5% in Madison Wisconsin. The Dow is up 200 points. Nobody should believe him. But I know there are brain-washed right wingers and diehard racists who will believe him anyway. These are the same people who believed him Romney would win. Good luck with your delusions and whims or lies.

  • dan

    Hold their feet to the fire ?! I should think we would fan the flames and let the whole corrupted system be purged. Organized crime syndicates…er, government and con-,men …er
    politicians have gotten a bit greedy and it’s time to change management or the greedy/evil corporations will turn us into consumer-serfs.

  • sesame

    Speaking of Stupid. Root is the guy who predicted Romney would easily win the election. Why is he still on this blog.

    • Doc Sarvis

      Exactly!

    • cawmun cents

      Because they think that spoon-feeding you male bovine fecal matter is better than your willing digestion of it.Either way…as I have stated for years now…you will eat the candy coated stuff,mainly because you like it.
      You want to hear good news,or at least what lines up with your way of perception,and like the liberal,you cant wait to be told something juicy.Problem is there are people out here in media-realm,which dont have a clue what is happening,constantly spouting indecisive opine for you to consume.They dont even look at the root of the problem,which would clearly show them the circumstances of their condition,so they are treating a mortal wound as if it needs a band-aid,and some Bactine.
      Someone signs them up because the have a degree in something or another,to write and make videos basedon perceptions that have no basis in reality,so you will continue to listen to their useless prattle as if it had true meaning.
      At least Mr.Root has a job…whehter it is a job-well-done or not is certainly open for debate
      Cheers!
      -CC.

    • alicia

      Thank you Sesame, you are right, the only stupid ones are the ones that still think this guy has any common sense. Most rich people, ie, Sam Walton’s rich family members do not work hard for their money. They use the workforce, pay them minimum wage and no insurance to make their millions. Why shouldn’t they pay more taxes, when they are very able to make the economy better, by paying their employees more instead of sending jobs overseas and hiring mostly part time to insure that benefits are minimal.

      • DaveH

        Maybe you’re worth as much as you think you are, Alicia. There’s only one way to find out. Put in the long hours, get the necessary education, risk your money (or any investors’ money you can wrangle) and your pride, and start your own company. There’s only one obstacle (actually many, but from the same source) in your way, Alicia. That is Big Government, which you Liberal Progressives have enabled with your uninformed votes.

      • Nadzieja Batki

        Why don’t you stop whining what Wal-Mart is doing and start your own company. Nobody is standing in your way but yourself and the bearer of government regulations.

      • Karolyn

        I know a guy who used to sit and bs with Sam Walton. He was a plain, fair man who would be appalled at what his family has done. He was very unmaterialistic and only had a Cadillac because his wife bought them each one. He’s the kind of CEO we need. I heard of a CEO/owner of a large retail company (can’t remember the name) who only takes $500,000 a year and pays his employees $18 per hour. In the same vein in the owner of a large grocery store who is retiring and giving the store to the employees. We need more people like this who care about their fellow Americans, not about their own pocketbooks.

  • Frank

    You present many strong arguments. The thing that bothers me is that your attitude is that anyone who disagrees with you is stupid. Well educated men and women, business men and woman hold views which are contrary to yours. They are not all stupid. I would prefer if you make your arguments as strongly as possible without trying to tag everyone who disagrees with you with titles like “stupid Use the power of logic rather than name calling.

    • Jonathan

      People always judge things by who they are. You can’t get away from that, IT’S A LAW!!!!

  • Jonathan

    Well said Ethan!!

  • Sgt. York

    When will the Republican party be released from the Hospital where they underwent a total Castration?

    • Bill

      Sgt York,
      I agree with you totally. The republicans need to grow a pair or step out of the way and let someone else stop this insanity. Reagan never backed down from his principles no matter how much the liberal media lied about him.

      It is really disheartening to see the current gop members just roll over to the progressives.

      • DaveH

        To the contrary, Bill, Reagan stuck to his claimed Principles all of a year before he succumbed to the pressure of members of his own party in Congress.

        • http://www.facebook.com/tony.newbill1 Tony Newbill

          The Communists Marxists are trying to make this economic Failure Reagan’s Fault but its Clintons Free Trade agreement that ended the GATT agreement and Ushered in the WTO that is when we started this Snowball down hill to Hell !!!!!

      • eddie47d

        Here we go again! Republicans lead by Gingrich are the ones who fully endorsed those “free trade” agreements. The Democrats were duped and accepted it although kicking and screaming all the way. Maybe Conservatives are right about there being no barriers to free trade and they could be proven right. The Democrats are now supporting a few of their own such as CAFTA and the Korean Pact. We can’t hold back world wide trade so maybe trying to get the best deal is the best we can hope for.

      • DaveH

        Who said anything about Free Trade, Eddie?
        How long have you been here? You still don’t understand the difference between Real Free Trade and the Government administered Jokes of NAFTA, and other so-called “Free Trade” agreements?
        Read this please, Eddie, and get a clue so I don’t have to suffer further nonsensical comments from you about “Free Trade”:
        http://archive.mises.org/7889/free-trade-versus-free-trade-agreements/

      • DaveH

        Here’s more for your reading displeasure, Eddie. Yeah I know, it takes so much effort to do a little reading and learning:
        http://www.mises.org/freemarket_detail.aspx?control=163

      • momo

        eddie47d says:
        November 29, 2012 at 11:51 am
        Here we go again! Republicans lead by Gingrich are the ones who fully endorsed those “free trade” agreements. The Democrats were duped and accepted it although kicking and screaming all the way.

        Duped? I thought Bill Clinton was a political genius, remember he was the president that signed NAFTA. Al Gore defended it in a debate with Ross Perot. Duped? Even Joe Biden, along with 26 other Democratic senators, voted for it. Duped indeed.

      • eddie47d

        There we go again MOMO. Sure they finally accepted it after it was all tied in a pretty bow by the Republicans and then they backed out on their promises than no American workers would lose their jobs. Kind of like the Patriot Act with its glamorous wish list for a better America and safer future.Thanks Republicans for giving the authorities more power. Yes I know Democrats signed it too but more importantly it was pushed by Republican leadership.

      • eddie47d

        There Dave H goes with his “its not about free trade”. Oh how convienient when it serves your purpose. I stopped reading your downloads over a year ago so don’t bother for I lost respect for you back then.

    • http://none Marly

      Mr. York, I kind of agree with you, the Republicans are in the hospital; however, they did not go there for total castration. They went to the psychiatric ward because they are delusional and suffer from paranoia. They are totally crazy if they do not understand that the USA is a democratic country and the majority of the people went to pole to vote and the democratic party won. Mr. Grover still think he is living in the middle age and he is King Arthur and he has to dictate his rules to a bunch of peasants. All the Republicans who listen to are a bunch of lunatics. They including Ms. Coulter, Bill O’reilly, Hannity are living in the Twilight Zone. They are not aware that the USA is currently a multi-ethnic country. if they do not change their behavior insulting people like this. they will continue to lose future election,

      • DaveH

        Marly says — “They are totally crazy if they do not understand that the USA is a democratic country and the majority of the people went to pole to vote and the democratic party won”.
        And you, Marly, are apparently totally ignorant, because the USA is a Republic, NOT a Democracy.
        As Benjamin Franklin was leaving Constitution Hall on Sept. 17, 1787, he heard a lady ask, “Well, Doctor, what have we got – a republic or a monarchy?” To which he replied: “A republic, madam – if you can keep it.”

      • Smilee

        IN OUR REPUBLIC WE DETERMINE OUR POLITICAL LEADERS BY ELECTIONS SO YOU BS DOES NOT NEGATE MARY’S STATEMENT AT ALL, SHE GETS IT DOES NOT APPEAR YOU DO!!

      • Robert Rashbrooke

        Reply for Marly

        Sorry to contradict you – the United States is NOT a Democracy, it is aREPRESENTATIVE REPUBLIC. Seems the same thing but is actually quite different, which is why there is an Electoral College acting on the popular vote and not majority vote wins elections.

        Reply for Goodwater @ 9:22

        You apparently have blindly accepted the authorised and sanitized history of the myth of our benevolent and philanthropic Founding Fathers. Go to http://www.anationbeguiled.com and read what history actually says about our founding – it doesn’t quite co-incide with the commonly held belief. And again, contrary to belief, our founders belived in taxation, and wished to assist the worse off in the community by taxing the better off to pay for that betterment, xomething you GOPer “freedom lovers” happily ignore.

  • http://Nowebsite John DeLellis

    GOP, DON’T BEND. BREAK OR GIVE IN BECAUSE THE DEMS. ARE JUST GOING TO PUT IN AM ENVELOPE AND SEND IT TO SOME THIRD WORLD DICTATORSHIP! WHAT’S 2 OR 3 MORE TRILION… LETS RIDE THE WAVE , ” KAHOUNA!!!!

    • Bill

      John,
      A good definition of foreign aid is taking money from poor people in a rich country and giving it to rich people in a poor country

      • DaveH

        Good one, Bill.

  • rick

    I think the Republican party is pretty much done,myself and a lot of others are leaving as fast as we can to form a Third party of conservatives made up of Democrats and Republicans

    • Jonathan

      Rick, I don’t think anything good can come out of those two party’s!!!

      • rick

        I think there are good in both but the corrupt rule and call the shots

  • Deerinwater

    Well, Mr. Root is appears so, ~ but for different reasons then you mention, while I wouldn’t call it “stupid” but just insane.

    This attempt to sell the American people on a contrived, alternate reality that they themselves live in “as being real ” has not worked and is not working. But rather then understand and accept this effort has failed , They and yourself (evidently) are attempting to “double-down” and try to sell the same package to the American people again, thinking that maybe if you just tried hard this time.

    Work as you may. that square peg that you are holding will not fit inside that round hole.

    You are not a majority, there -fore you are placed in the position to compromise or just act obtuse as David H would say.

    Your perception of reality is not being shared as you continue to attempt to sell a once rejected product that will be rejected again and again. ~ Regardless of how many scandals you attempt to create to offer doubt and discredit current popular opinion.

    • Bill

      Deerinthewater.
      What is your version of realty? Do you think we should raise taxes, increase the debt limit and continue spending like we are currently doing?

      You said Watne Allen Root is out of touch with reality, I would like to know what your reality is

      • http://superpacforaustralia.wordpress.com superpacforaustralia

        Bill, in my opinion there indeed needs to be a total forensic re-examination of where all the budget money is going now and to cut out silly useless programs so that enough money could be saved to pay for Obamacare/Medicare/FoodStamps which is what most of your voters voted for….. thats what the voting customer wanted and the customer is always right and the main reason the Republicans lost.

        Republicans should put aside their stupid political egos and I know you have the skills to do a proper examination of all the pork barrelling wasted money is going towards and to offer to redirect those cuts/savings into what the voters really wanted. In the interim, you should agree to the tax increases untill you find the real savings……but not from the new programs of Obamacare/Medicare etc ……

        When and if you can do that is when you should ask for the tax cuts to be re-introduced. ….. it will demonstrate you are genuine in your concern for the medical welfare of your citizens and not just for the Republican voter and also give you a better chance at winning with the next Presidential candidate….because the next election campaign has already started..

      • Deerinwater

        Bill ask; ” Do you think we should raise taxes, increase the debt limit and continue spending like we are currently doing?”

        I say;

        Bill, if the wealthy insist on hiding their wealth off shore or by all the other meaning they find at their disposal, refuse to reinvest it into “VENTURE ” capitalistic endeavors that might serve all American while they only invest in “SURE THINGS” where the “FIX” is in and huge profit margins assured to the very select few.by virtue of “Crony Capitalism” , “insider Trading” , “Influence Peddling” , “Bought Politicians” , “Bought Justices” , etc, ~ you bet cha ! Raise their Taxes!

        Their hording, greed and sense of entitlement has bought this decision upon themselves. ~ If they wish to live somewhere else that is more tax lenient and sympathetic to their “plight” , permit them to lose US citizenship privileges and move to a third world country. I understand Nigeria is nice this time of year.

        It “IS” class warfare “IF” it is as Mitt Romney claims that ~ $250,000 annual earning is MIDDLE CLASS. “A rose by any other name would smell just as sweet” This fact is one of the two elephants in the room that we attempt to be ignored today. The other being as Ron Paul has made so clear, that a self determined nation need to have control of it’s creation of currency.

        The GOP is attempting to tell all Americans today that voters that only make $50,000 dollars per. year, ~ vote does not count and much as someone making 250,000.00 or more, while “WE” know this is just not true and it was never the intentions of the founding Father’s to be so.

      • Deerinwater

        In regard to your other question(s) ~ increase debit ceiling?, ~ clearly we can not default, if another way can be found, it’s open for discussion. But as even a small business man such as I, I can’t not write a “BAD CHECK” to people that I do business with, if I had to sell off or borrow or move asserts around, getting outside my comfort zone, ~so be it ~ The nations business is no different. To do otherwise, you lose creditably, trust and faith, three major factors that is required to stay in business and it’s a rapid downward spiral from there without them.

        Regarding spending, ~ this topic is cloudy, for several reasons, ~ Time lags, time over money, we spend it and then the postman delivers bad news for years afterward. Our nation has over spent and misspent prior to the current administration. But spending in and of itself is not bad, ~ I cannot make money without spending, I must spend! There comes times when I see fit to spend money to save money. We call it investing. We attempt to invest in matters and products that offer acceptable returns for our investment.

        Today I am setting on investments that will require several years to see returns. Sometimes these “investments” are drawn from my hand, not an investment I’d like to make but I do so with hopes of living another day and not wake up finding myself compromising my present position. I want to ride and not be ridden. If you plan to dance to your song, play the fiddler or you dance to someones else’s music.

        So what has a 5 to 1 investment over and above all other world nations in military matters afforded us? What and where are our returns today? I tend to agree with Ron Paul on such matters and harbor much “buyers remorse” with what we elected to invest in from 2001 to 2008 while today the postman keeps delivering bad news.

        After this big ticket item, what is left? Social programs? Programs that Americans have invested in all their working years, with all it’s failing, successes, rabbit trails, strawman and red herring. No doubt about it “Government Cleans up” ~ if you die, ~ government will not allow you to just lay then and rot and draw flies. ~ Government will bury you, government will take the responsibility of cleaning up and that included your estate if you are negligent.

        I do not ever expect or ask that government, the private sector or the individual to do something for nothing. ~ If you want something done, make it worth someones efforts. But today is seems that many of the top 2 % demand outrageous returns for their efforts. paying them well is no longer enough , they want us to beg and be treated as Royalty. I say, “Fuok’em and feed ‘em fish”!

        But regarding all spending matters , we must drive the conditions of the road, ~ whatever it takes, to keep the shiny side up and stay on the road and not in the ditch like we found ourselves in OCT, 2008.

      • DaveH

        Deer says — “Their hording, greed and sense of entitlement has bought this decision upon themselves”.
        Hoarding? Don’t know about that, Deer, but let’s say they were. What is wrong with Hoarding?
        Greed?
        “I have never understood why it is “greed” to want to keep the money you have earned but not greed to want to take somebody else’s money.”
        ― Thomas Sowell
        Sense of Entitlement? You lost me on that one, Deer. Perhaps you could make that a little more explicit?

      • eddie47d

        Dave’s light bulb hasn’t come on again because he refuses to admit the the “new” greedy are not the same as your grandfathers greedy but more like your great grandfathers greedy. Were workers were virtual slaves to the Robber Barron’s and we have come to the point where we are going back to those days.

      • Deerinwater

        David says; ““I have never understood why it is “greed” to want to keep the money you have earned but not greed to want to take somebody else’s money.”
        ― Thomas Sowell

        Nice quote David. ~ It addresses both sides of the issue.

        Now if we might look at budget matters from both sides , from the revenue and spending side, then we might actually solve this problem.

        That since 1975 the lobbyist in American commerce has grown in number and in influence to help government forge our laws on behave of the highest bidder has little to do with productive work but more with captured sympathy and the capturing of funds David H.

        That one might have amassed such funds some 35 years later in this lopsided game contingent on the notion that they were somehow “earned” is a bit of a stretch.

        That Prince William Sound was devastated by the EXXON Valdes while the victims awarded restitution by the court system of these United States, while so too was this restitution held up and not awarded by this same court system is no coincidences.

        Those that have the gold, ~ make the rule, making it the the golden rule. ~ and this is where Corporate American commerce and it’s lobbyist have ruled supreme for 35 years.

        For Christ Sakes David H. , these unfunded Bush wars were over future American crude oil supplies predicated on strawman and red heron. This protracted 7 trillion dollars expenditure was spent by the American people so Big Oil might “sell us” future oil!

        How could such a thing happen, ~ without the special interest lobbyist spreading the wealth around on Capital Hill and helping to create a climate to where it was even possible.

        To assume ones current wealth status is “earned” , Jesse James might run for President and be offered keys to the Kingdom.

      • DaveH

        And that, Deer, is why I’ve called you obtuse in the past. You didn’t address anything in my comment. Rather you went off on some wild tangents, some of which I think I’ve said myself, but I can’t be sure because your comment was not very comprehensible.
        Alinsky tactic #2 — Go off on tangents.
        http://personalliberty.com/2012/08/07/disinformation-how-it-works/

      • Deerinwater

        Hmm??? w’ell ~ , your question David H.;

        “Hoarding? Don’t know about that, Deer, but let’s say they were. What is wrong with Hoarding?
        Greed?”

        Other than the fact, if everyone were a “greedy self-serving hoarder” the world would not be worth spit, ~ or that it goes against Christian principles and the teaching of Christ, ~ nothing I suppose David.

        And why I choose to ignored your question, finding it unworthy a response and highlight your obtuse question, not wishing to annoy, offend or pass moral judgement if you wish to defend the practice of self absorbed unbridled hoarding and greed.

        Honesty,fiat money is printed for negotiable tender to be used to serve as payment in debit both public and private. Hoarding creates issues, this has to be addressed when hoarding is carried to extremes. ~ Hoard Gold David. You like Gold, if you can hoard enough that it becomes a problem , more power to you.

        Money is to spend , threaten to spend , or leverage. It not to take a bath in or just look at.

        Luke 12:34

        For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.

        James 5:1-3

        Come now, you rich, weep and howl for the miseries that are coming upon you. Your riches have rotted and your garments are moth-eaten. Your gold and silver have corroded, and their corrosion will be evidence against you and will eat your flesh like fire. You have laid up treasure in the last days.

        Matthew 6:24

        “No one can serve two masters, for either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve God and money.

        Luke 12:16-21

        And he told them a parable, saying, “The land of a rich man produced plentifully, and he thought to himself, ‘What shall I do, for I have nowhere to store my crops?’ And he said, ‘I will do this: I will tear down my barns and build larger ones, and there I will store all my grain and my goods. And I will say to my soul, Soul, you have ample goods laid up for many years; relax, eat, drink, be merry.’ But God said to him, ‘Fool! This night your soul is required of you, and the things you have prepared, whose will they be?’ …

        Matthew 6:31-33

        Therefore do not be anxious, saying, ‘What shall we eat?’ or ‘What shall we drink?’ or ‘What shall we wear?’ For the Gentiles seek after all these things, and your heavenly Father knows that you need them all. But seek first the kingdom of God and his righteousness, and all these things will be added to you.

        Proverbs 13:4

        The soul of the sluggard craves and gets nothing, while the soul of the diligent is richly supplied.

  • Doc Sarvis

    IF the top 1% are our job creators they might try to create the jobs here as opposed to overseas. The job creator myth was busted a long time ago.

    • http://tigrebleau.wordpress.com tigrebleau

      The US’s highest-in-the-first-world corporate taxes make it impossible to create profitable jobs here. Without profit, there is no reason to expand a business. If the the corporate tax rate were lowered, and we had some commitment from BHO that the Bush rates would remain in place, jobs and money would flow into the US. Of course, we’d have to assume he was lying as usual, but at least he would be on record as favoring prosperity.

      • http://superpacforaustralia.wordpress.com superpacforaustralia

        Perhaps you should lower taxes for foriegners and illiminate Estate taxes in some of your states and i can assure you will have a movement of retirees moving into those states creating a boom in activity.

      • http://superpacforaustralia.wordpress.com superpacforaustralia

        This very thing happended in Queensland in Australia many years ago when they got rid of the death taxes in that State when all other states have a very punitive rate of death duties. The result was expected and many wealthy people purchased apartments and moved from other states to live their permanently which was helped with the warmer weather too of course. It created a building boom in Queensland and all types of businesses grew faster than in any other state…so much so that after a few years all the other States had to follow and get rid of the Death taxes voluntarily and without any debate of opposition…lol

        All you need are some smart politicians who will realise that less will result in more for their state.

      • Robert Rashbrooke

        Historical data suggests that the USA had an increasing standard of living that lasted from the early 1830′s up to the mid 1970′s. After then, it went downhill very fast. Read or listen to Professor Richard Wollf’s lectures on the resons for this. They suggest that an over abundence of workers, computerisation and robotics reduced costs but did not decrease profits, which management paid to themselves, by and large, so that we ended up with management wages increasing to 400-500 times a line workers level. This was followed by further reduction in costs by sending jobs to low wage areas, attempted destruction of union operations to protect workers rights and you end up where we are today.

        As for myself,I would rather pay tax at 35% on ten million than 35% on my current wage of $22K, a barely liveable wage here in North Florida. I do feel that I take home more of my salary now, today, than I did five years ago.

        Some time ago I asked on here if anyone could tell me what type of job actually deserves a salary of $10 million and, to date, no one has supplied an answer!

    • Robert Smith

      Actually they are KILLING jobs. Look at Hostess. It wasn’t the union, it was Wall Street that made such a mess.

      Check out: http://www.nationofchange.org/death-family-and-question-whodunit-1354111324

      Rob

      • Alex Frazier

        Hostess closed because the Union contract was up for renewal. The Union demands at the renewal negotiations were not able to be met by Hostess. They warned the workers that if they insisted on those demands, they would have no choice but to close up shop. The Union wouldn’t budge and threatened to strike. So Hostess closed its doors.

        You are wrong if you think Wall Street has anything to do with that mess. Go do your homework.

      • Bill

        Rob,
        Please explain how Wall Street killed Hostess

      • Flashy

        Hostess (and Ding Dongs and Twinkies) would have survived except the unions demanded too much, and just as important management didn’t care as they could walk without economic consequences to them personally. Management had nothing to lose, there were no consequences to them. As such, management was going to break the union, spank the serfs as they viewed the workforce, and especially to send a message to the rest of the unions in the conglomerate. The union misread that, asked for concessions to trade for what they were being asked to concede…and the whole thing blew up.

      • Nadzieja Batki

        A. Frazier, Robert Smith wants the fault to be Wall Street’s so therefore it must be.

      • DaveH

        Make up your mind, Robert. They’re bad guys if they run a business (according to Liberal Progressives), and they’re bad guys if they stop running a business. I guess if they have money that you Greedy Liberal Progressives want to share, they are bad guys no matter what they do.

      • eddie47d

        Yeah Yeah, Dave H ! He won’t tell you that the top Hostess management was asking for $5 million in salary increases and $3 million for those under them. The workers weren’t asking unreasonable increases for the Hostess company had already settled with one group of workers and stalled on the second group but the arrogance of those management employees is what was killing the company. (The management did relent on their own million dollar demands but who is really the greedy ones)?

      • DaveH

        I know being a Unionist, you don’t recognize other peoples’ property, but it’s their money, Eddie.
        They can pay their people whatever they think they’re worth, and that is NONE of your business, Eddie. Does anybody tell you how to spend your money?

      • eddie47d

        You are getting slick at denying anything and everything Dave H. Soon you’ll be receiving the Pinocchio award.

    • DaveH

      Doc Sarvis says — “The job creator myth was busted a long time ago”.
      It was, Doc? Perhaps you could list some references for that claim? Or even enlighten us with some of your “logic”?

      • Doc Sarvis

        There is actually quite a lot on the internet about this. You may start with this:
        http://futiledemocracy.wordpress.com/2012/10/05/the-myth-of-the-job-creators/

      • DaveH

        Surely you kid, Doc?
        From the article:

        “The right winged rhetoric is as poignant on every line of text as it has ever been”.
        No bias there.

        “Most one nation conservatives believed the rich had a moral duty to protect the poor”.
        Moral duty to protect the poor? Where does he get that? I’ve seen no moral code anywhere in my life that said anybody had a duty to protect anybody else unless they freely contract to do so. As I said in an earlier comment, the Cubans make less than 1/6th of what the average US worker does, yet I don’t see you Liberal Progressives offering to remedy that. It doesn’t apply to you, does it, only to those whose money you want to share?

        “The leaflet posted through the door makes clear several times that Romney is committed to free market fundamentalism. His is simply an extension of new right thinking. He isn’t new, he isn’t presenting a credible plan for growth. He is rehashing the same tired old Friedman-ite economic philosophy that has dominated Western thought for the past thirty years, and has failed miserably every time”.
        Rehashing the same tired old Friedman-ite that has dominated Western thought for 30 years, and has failed every time? Surely he kids? Our Government has grown from spending 37% of our GDP in 1980 to 41% of our GDP in 2011. The Federal Register has grown from 58,000 pages in 1982 to over 82,000 pages in 2012. And we’ve gone from being ranked the #3 most Economically Free country in the world in the 2002 Annual Report of Fraser Institute’s rankings to being the #18 most Economically Free country in their 2012 Annual Report.
        So much for Free Markets. It’s funny how the Socialists like to say we’ve never had Free Markets (when it suits their purposes) but then claim periods of heavy Government intervention in the economy to be Free Markets.
        And Romney is anything BUT a Free Market Advocate. Hell, he can’t even butt out of our personal Health Care decisions.

        “Demand creates jobs. Not tax cuts for the wealthy”.
        If that were true (it isn’t), there would be no poor countries, because any rum dum dictator can print new money and “create jobs”. It doesn’t work because no matter how much demand there is, first there has to be efficiently created product so that there are more and cheaper goods available for the consumers to purchase. For example, I demand a Ferrari Aurea, but do you think that matters? First one would have to be manufactured cheaply enough for me to buy it. And that isn’t going to happen unless some “Greedy” auto manufacturer invests his money in plants and equipment to allow him to build and sell me one at the price I’m willing to (or can) pay.
        Demand-side Dogma:
        http://mises.org/daily/1142

  • http://davidsfloors.com Granpa David

    He is wrong. Republicans should vote “present” in protest ( regarding taxing the rich). Obama is intent on destroying the economy. If we “obstruct” taxing millionaires and billionaires, we get the blame for the bad economy. That is the suicide. It is a trap. As one lady put it, if we fight taxes on the rich , the bad economy coming will have our fingerprints.

    • Bill

      It is such a shame that the voting public is so stupid to believe every little sound bite that the press feeds them.

    • Nadzieja Batki

      The “rich” have the option of packing their bags and leaving this country and most other countries will welcome that wealth while it lasts. What people are left in this country will bear the brunt of the money grab and never again will they be able to become rich.

      • eddie47d

        Maybe when Texas secedes you can move there. Oops you already live there!

      • Nadzieja Batki

        So why do you care where someone lives? Should the posters be wary of posting because you have decided to make veiled threats of snooping?

      • Deerinwater

        Everyone makes me happy, some her they walk in and some when they leave.

  • Kay Cleveland

    Do away with the IRS completely, and everyone pay a flat tax….across the board. That way everyone pays the same amount of tax. Herman Cain’s 9-9-9 would probably worked great!

    • Bill

      Kay,
      you have good ideas, but a rational tax plan that promotes prosperity will not happen. It is such a shame that people are so stupid to fall for an economic plan that promotes poverty over prosperity.

      Lower tax rates encourage prosperity. DUH… But we hear all these lies which are really a hustle to rationalize the theft of our wealth and piss it away in another government boondoggle.

      Just look at Hong Kong to see how it works. They have two tax rates on income and that is all of the taxes that they have. 15% on personal and 17% on business. No sales tax, no property tax, no tax on the manure levels of your pet hamster. They constantly work towards making their public sector more efficient (what a concept) that they returned tax money to all Hong Kong citizens last year.

      The progessives control the media and government right now and they have the public so dumbed down that it is real easy to sell their BS

      • http://gravatar.com/cbgard Carlucci

        Bill is right about Hong Kong. I’ve been there several times, and if you want to see free enterprise in action, just go there. Fabulous place.

      • http://n/A Ken

        Spending is the problem!!! Entitlements are by far the biggest expenditures. Not a single entitlement will cut by the socialists; it is suicide for them to select voting blocks for cuts. The solution is to tax entitlement benefits across-the-board, thereby eliminating the need to single out specific cuts. After all, Obama has been calling for a fair share and Biden thinks it would be patriotic. This will enable those receiving benefits to be patriotic citizens by helping their country in a time of need. They will accept anything, if it is packaged right!!!!

      • Robert Rashbrooke

        Bill,

        Despite the fact that we KNOW what is being done in Hong Kong by their government, abd how successful it is, we do not follow their example because we have the FEDERAL RESERVE dictating what happens in this country, not the President,and certainly not Congress

    • Right Brain Thinker

      Kay meant to say the same TAX RATE rather than the same TAX AMOUNT—-no matter, the arithmetic just doesn’t add up—-it didn’t for 9-9-9 and doesn’t for the flat rate plans that have been proposed.

      There are many ways we can ‘tweak” the present tax structure to improve it. Saying “flat tax” is simplistic and would really benefit the 1% at the expense of the greater good.

      Bill says, “Kay, you have good ideas, but a rational tax plan that promotes prosperity will not happen. It is such a shame that people are so stupid to fall for an economic plan that promotes poverty over prosperity”

      I would reword that so that it makes more sense:
      “A rational tax plan that promotes prosperity FOR ALL will not happen IF WE ALLOW THE REPUBLICANS TO WRITE IT. It is such a shame that people are so stupid to fall for an economic plan that promotes PLUTOCRACY over prosperity FOR THE 99%”

      Bill also says, “Lower tax rates encourage prosperity. DUH…” That should say:
      “Lower tax rates ON THE 99% and HIGHER RATES ON THE 1% encourage prosperity.…history tells us so….DUH”

      • DaveH

        Brain (Right) says — “There are many ways we can ‘tweak” the present tax structure to improve it. Saying “flat tax” is simplistic and would really benefit the 1% at the expense of the greater good”.
        Isn’t it the Liberal Progressives who whine all the time about the “loopholes” in our present tax system?
        What is “simplistic” is saying that the real beneficiaries of a Flat Tax would be the 1%.
        Every tax dollar that is diverted from the Private Sector to the Public Sector is a dollar that would have been spent more productively and more efficiently in the Private Sector. The Private sector creates Wealth, while the Government consumes Wealth with those dollars. Wealth being the actual goods and services which can be bought with the dollar (the medium of exchange). When the Government consumes our wealth, we all lose in the long run except those of us in the Real One Percent who are taking advantage of the rest of the citizens.
        The Real One Percenters:
        http://mises.org/daily/5776/The-State-is-the-1-Percent

      • GALT

        Interesting……so DavidH……………….what does Warren Buffet understand about the
        concept of “fair” that you do not?

        Maybe you and/or Bob could get an EXCLUSIVE interview with him……………be FUN
        to watch either one of you………………probing…………….for the answer to that question.

        Be even more fun to see Bob agreeing to do it at all…………….let alone having YOU
        as his side kick?

        Bob?????

    • DaveH

      Kay,
      You started out good, but I think you didn’t really mean what you said. A Flat Tax would indeed be a good thing, but I think you’re talking about a Flat Rate Tax. A Flat Rate Tax would still be an income tax, and thus still allow Government snooping into our private lives. Plus, some people would still pay more than their “fair” share. Worst of all, Government would still be getting far more of our money to waste than they should be getting.
      The current Income Tax System is beyond byzantine, but the biggest problem is Government Spending, and that’s what we should concentrate most on.
      Herman Cain’s 999 plan was a Trojan Horse effort by the Elites to saddle us with both an income tax and a consumption tax as they currently have in Europe. Remember that Herman was the Chairman of the Federal Reserve Bank in Kansas. What else would you expect from him?

      • Right Brain Thinker

        GALT is right on the money with his assessment of you, Dave—-willfully ignorant says it all.

      • Robert Rashbrooke

        DaveH,

        I rarely agree with what you post and this is another such occasion.

        Can you tell me why the Corporations and Big Business have had for some time, some $1.7 trillion stashed away in American and foreign banks rather than utilising it for investment or expansion in business in this country? Could it be because they (the bosses/owners) are more interested in their own welfare rather than the country’s?

        Perhaps you can answer my question – what job is worth $10 million salary?

      • GALT

        The one no one in his right mind would ever think about hiring DavidH to do?

        I mean there are highly paid “idiots”…………..but the qualification is, at a minimum,
        the ability to fool most of the people at least SOME of the time………which means
        you have to have some mental agility…………………

        10 million? That would buy you a hundred votes…..anywhere in government………..
        DavidH would cost you that many and them some………………..

        He’s kinda like a “judo click buy”………for Bob……just think IF you thought this
        guy was for REAL? That makes the “doom and gloom” stuff way MORE effective…
        provided you actually GET the INTENT of PLD.??????????????????

    • Texas Ride

      NatB, the rich people that want to leave and take their money better do it fast. There will soon be a law preventing them from taking their money out of the country. There is a law against taking cash on a plane. I didn’t know about this law against carrying cash on the plane, especially one going out of country. The authorities can confiscate your money and claim its “drug money” because it is cash. The person must prove that it is not “drug money” and incur big attorney fees. The money may never be recovered.
      So you all think you are a free people….think again.

  • http://www.thelonepatriot.blogspot.com OrionRon

    Look, Republican’s have lost the argument. They should complain that Obama and the Dem’s are unwilling to compromise. State, over and over and over again why giving him what he wants will not cut the deficit, create jobs or expand the economy. Then proclaim that in good conscience, they can not let the American economy collapse due to the presidents’s obsession with class warfare and will therefore give him what he wants.

    Then for the next two years say over and over and over that his economic policies are a disaster. Don’t talk about abortion, birth control, gay marriage, just focus on how Democrats are bringing us even closer to total collapse.

    That’s the best they can do….and I doubt they can pull that off…….

    • Robert Smith

      The didn’t lose the “argument”.

      Trickle down FAILED. They’ve had their chance.

      Now it’s time to get back to policies that gave Clinton a budget surplus that Bush wiped his tush with.

      Rob

      • Bill

        Rob,
        Are you referring to Clintons policies when he caved to the gop dominated congress on LOWERED capital gans taxes by 40%?

      • DaveH

        But Trickle Up Poverty, as promoted by well-meaning but ignorant Progressive Followers, has succeeded. Progressives have no reservations about Killing the Golden Goose.

      • eddie47d

        Conservatives have no problem fattening the golden gooses at the top whether they produce anything or not! Its all come down to making money off of other peoples money instead of creating jobs for those other people. The bigger dams the upper Elites build the harder the economy crashes when they do break!

        • http://www.facebook.com/tony.newbill1 Tony Newbill

          Eddie47d You think the Government Bureaucracy that writes and implements ALL Economic policies is going to make you Rich when they ALL are calling for Population Controls across the broad Including Economics ?? FOOL while Congress and this president been locked in Grid Lock Who do you think has Been writing and implemented the Policies that have the stagnate economic at 1.5 % GDP scaring the be-Jesus out of the Risk takers YOU depicts as the Evil Money takers ???

      • eddie47d

        Those “risk takers” have been around for many decades. Now they are pigs at the trough and demand more for accomplishing less.They don’t want to work for that million they want it handed to them with the next big ponzi scheme. They keep betting the farm and the farm finally went into bankruptcy.

      • Right Brain Thinker

        As usual, eddie47d nails it pretty well while dAvEH again displays his willful ignorance by talking about “trickle UP poverty”. Lord love a duck!

        DavEh obviously doesn’t even read the comments on this site or he would have noticed the many that give incontrovertible DATA that contradicts his delusions. Maybe I expect too much of him. I guess when you live in a state of terminal delusion, you wouldn’t even recognize that what trickles UP is wealth.

    • Bill

      That is good advice, OrionRon,
      The public is ignorant to how things work. Just look at the comments of Rob, for example.
      He is a dumbed down, mind numbed robot that has been programed well

      • alicia

        Bill you obviously aren’t as smart as you think you are. So far Mr. Smith sound for more intelligent then you.

      • DaveH

        Could you give us an example, Alicia?

      • eddie47d

        Oh yes Bill like your “lower tax rates create wealth” . Sometimes it does and many times it doesn’t. Lower tax rates didn’t encourage job growth in 2007 and the economic collaspe happened anyway. That puts us back to greed and selfishness at the top.

      • Smilee

        DaveH says:
        November 29, 2012 at 12:02 pm

        ALICA JUST GAVE HER OPINION, JUST HOW DO YOU GIVE AN EXAMPLE OF AN OPINION, SOMETIMES DAVY YOUR SO RIDICULOUS IDIOTIC

      • DaveH

        More useless adolescent ad hominem attacks from a Liberal Progressive.
        Do you guys ever have anything informative to say, Sleepee?

      • Right Brain Thinker

        Uh, I see an awful lot of them there ad hominem critters running loose here. Aren’t they a threat to the world and aren’t we supposed to be killing them off? (Even though that might make some folks mute?)

  • http://theconservativecrawfish.wordpress.com reelman1946

    Its easy “to get stupid” when the media hates u and works against u 24-7 in vile ways.
    The pressure is tremendous. Paranoia grows, like the media is the nation. Its not.

    The choice is more or less the utopian secular socialist model, nothing less.

    What should 20th century economic history teach? Well, it teaches nothing if schools and the media, the Repubs do not remind us what REALLY succeeded and why plus what really failed and why.

    Until the Repubs get “a Newt attitude” about refuting the media claims (bold lies/smears/demons/distractions)…its near impossible. The main suggestion I had when asked online by them was,”where is your “quick reply strike force”? They lag and lag as the media makes each and every demdim assertion more real by the hour.

    The myths remain due to media and Repubs lacking…like taxes have to be paid for…..Reagan caused deficits, you can’t live on welfare and so on…
    The fuzzy fair share concept…the reality of tax harm…the reality of over regulation…how nations have failed due to utopian socialism yada yada.

    How does anyone match a natural bold liar who is backed up by thousands of media nation-wide…a media that also attacks Repubs daily?
    That means a LOT better plan then pretending the dimdems are simply misguided schoolboys when they are the angry arrogant apostles of utopian socialism who lack any ethical or moral boundaries (aka total thugs). Thugs that boldly lie daily…unchecked. It seems we need a lot more TEACHERS and less lawyers in the Repub Party…a lot more folks who act like the media hate us instead of trying to be the nicest guy every minute.

    Notice how the dimdems often say, “most/the people/the voters etc” as if they speak for the vast majority? Who quickly negates that? No one. Who says that is baloney? No one.
    Who says its another bold lie? No one. Instead its allowed to float around the nation’s media as truth and maybe Fox or Talk Radio’s limited access audience hears the other side.

    OzBama did the clueless college tour…did Mitt try to follow? OzBama did the black radio fear/smear/victim worship tour…what was Mitt’s strategy for minority radio? Did he even try hard for that? If Repubs learned only to give up principles when they lose (which the dimdems never ever do or are even asked to do)…what future is that for America?
    (A nation where half pay no income tax, 50 million+ are on Food Stamps with 16+ trillion of debt)

    NOW the game is simple…Obama and his media must (and will) find ways to draw the Repubs in so they can hang the BLAME sign on them for 2014/2016. They have NO other agenda…its utopian socialism full blast while pretending they care about (and always have) fiscal sanity. Repubs will put forth ideas and get shot down instead of shutting up. The dimdem lies will still be bold, up will be down and the whole 9 yards.
    The Republican rubes will again be charmed by the socialist wolf and bullied by the media. This will end only when its so bad the nation realizes enough personal pain…so the scouring of a nation goes on.

    • Bill

      Good Comments Reelman.
      Gop should hire the same ad agencies that promoted Apple and Starbucks, instead of running around with their feet in their mouths

  • wsk

    …..RHETORICAL QUESTION? Of course they’re that stupid. They will cave and the low-eared man-child messiah will STILL balme them. This is why the Republican Party needs an enema.

  • http://www.facebook.com/jandeenphoto Jan Eric Deen

    You can argue both sides and provide data to support it. The over arching hypocrisy is that members of Congress are not doing their work, insane statements are too often made that make GOP into a greed class of rich, lazy, undereducated fools. We are often judged by the company we keep, that includes mind as well as Sarahs legs . If the public saw works being built that reflected a benign aristocracy rather than an outsourcing rip off machine, we would have a more positive view of your data.

    • Robert Rashbrooke

      Reply to Jan,

      Just this morning I heard a Republican Senator on NPR state “now is a bad time to be rich in America” during a discussion on tax reform and taxing the 1%.

      The man is so out of touch with reality that he has no idea just how bad it has been for the working POOR for the last decade even. With his $150K+ salary and re election campaigne financed by someone else, and all his perks of the job, he has the audacity to complain how badly the RICH are being treated when they have had a decade long tax relief on their earnings, something the rest of us certainly have not had. When he/they whine about taking away MY entitlements to balance the deficit and not ask the rich to share equally or even more in that effort, he/they lose all credibility.

  • Bruce clay

    Agreed. Good ananysis. Republicans need to put the argument back to the Pres. and force him to stipate his cuts which at this point is not the focus of this debate.

    • Robert Smith

      Hey Bruce… Tell us again how that trickle down thing is going.

      The PEOPLE see that it has failed. We’ve had a bunch of years with the Bush tax cuts and we are going further in the hole.

      Rob

      • Flashy

        Trickle down….euphemism for being urinated on….

      • Paul Wells

        I’ll take trickle down any day, as opposed to Obama’s trickle up poverty, and the mindset that you can just get it for free, sign up here, all it costs you is your vote!

  • http://superpacforaustralia.wordpress.com superpacforaustralia

    Most of the statistics you provide Alan are historically correct, however your country is in a financial crisis now which only a tax increase now will delay a total financial meltdown. Now i can imagine many professional money managers can see themselves making a fortune during such a collapse should it occur sooner rather than later, but the majority of asset holders would lose everything during GFC Mark 2 version and surely that would not be really a good thing to see and increasing civil unrest to high risk proportions.

    The other matter you seem to forget Alan is that the people with the money and the income are going to be responsible to pay for your countries debts even if you dont get an increase in taxes now, because sooner or later it will be taken from you …maybe involuntarily like happening in Greece perhaps. Deficits are a Contingent Liability against the taxpayers who can pay. Because the reality is any government whether Democrats or Rpublicans only have the pool of the haves to take from, because the have nots will never have anything to take from.

    • Marty S.

      Thus become a have-not and damn quick. Pick up the ball again later after all this insanity is over!

  • Flashy

    Wayne….after your “absolute garuantee’ of a Romney win (made back in may and doubled down in late October), a win which anyone with any sense and awareness knew was foolish to predict as it was betting not only against the reality, but also betting against America. Here you go and argue trying to convince folks of yet another fantasy of misconstrued facts and historical reality.

    Best leave predictions and demands to those who have a better grasp on reality and wisdom. Try laying out the arguments pro and con instead of shooting yourself yet once again.

    Reality is, the GOP and the extremists got hammered in November. Smacked down, rejected, and told to either work within the framework spelled out by President Obama or take a hike and go sit in the corner making wee willie into Big Bill. There is not one politician who reads the November results as anything but a mandate for President Obama.

    Reality is, the “fiscal cliff” was agreed to by the GOP … yes, demanded by the GOP to be put into place to force Congress and the administration to cut a deal. President Obama campaigned on two major premises domestically. One was Obamacare was not going away. The other was raising taxes on the wealthy and real deficit reduction without drastic cuts in SSI and Medicare.

    You can try and spin the economics of Reagan’s reign any way you can, the history shows it was nothing less than a disaster for the Middle Class and entrenched welfare for the wealthy. From 1981 onward, the concentration of wealth went one way…to the 1%. From 1981 to the present day, we have witnessed the most massive, largest redistribution of wealth in the history of Man as the wealthy took everything and gave nothing in return.

    Reality? you want reality? Pre Reagan, two income families were an option, a luxury. Since reagan? A necessity. Trickle down worked all right. it concentrated the wealth at the top, entrenched and unmoving..and what trickled down to the Middle Class was the urine from above.

    Reality is…the GOP will have to agree to raise taxes. the question is whether they will raise it on the wealthy 1% by 3-4% on income OVER $250,000 or for everyone. Stare at the November election results some more…which is the choice any sane GOP politician is going to opt for? Raising the upper rate by 3-4% will not hurt the economy. Those who state such are hoping the message is believed by the ignorant and there’s enough noise generated by the ignorant and extremists to hold the line and protect the aristocracy’s welfare programs. The money will not disappear and go away. it will be reintroduced back into the economy. M3 will not go down.

    All economic numbers are showing we are springloaded for some serious economic growth in 2013. Serious growth and come next fall talk about how to tamper it down some to avoid overheating and the inflationary dangers that carries.

    On the other side, the Democrats will have to be kept in line by the President. There will have to be spending cuts. Not promises…we’ve seen the fiscal restraint as practiced by Congress during the 00′s. Whatever spending reductions put on the table will have to be real. They may be set forth to occur stretched over future years, but not as promises.

    That is the reality Mr. Root. What you suggest is the extremist viewpoint which was soundly rejected in November. It also does nothing but promise to snuff the upcoming growth as well as maintain the welfare for the wealthy programs.

    That is yet another question we will see an answer to this upcoming month. Will the GOP insist on protecting the welfare for the wealthy programs and punish the Middle Class for rebelling against the aristocracy? Or will the spending cuts be more along the lines of ending the Reagan concept of privatizing profits and socializing risk?

    Basically Mr. Root….get real. Try it…for once.

    • DaveH

      More double-speak from Flashman, the administration shill who has plagiarized other peoples’ work as his own, lied repeatedly, condoned violence, and condoned theft.
      You have no credibility on this board, Flashman. Ask me to prove it.

      • Flashy

        LOL..OK, so what specifically of my post do you disagree with? Or just spouting off because you can …

        let me guess…like you do with your Mises links..you didn’t read it.

      • DaveH

        Is Flashman an administration shill?
        Why would a lay person try so hard to personally attack me?
        Why would a lay person assume multiple personalities, or share a computer with multiple other personalities who tout the same ideas?
        Why would a lay person work so hard to deceive people?
        Here is an example from yesterday of Flashman’s typical lack of credibility:
        http://personalliberty.com/2012/11/28/the-repudiation-of-mitt-romney/#comment-770041

      • DaveH
      • Texas Ride

        The radical left is constantly yammering about how everyone must pay their “fair share.” Well, I agree! The laws are to be enforced “equally,” so lets do it. Make companies like GE pay taxes (they don’t now.) Everyone even Geithner-the-tax-cheat would be able to figure out how much taxes he owed if it was a flat 10% across the board.
        Lets get taxes from the 50% that pay nothing and have no skin-in-the-game. I don’t care if they pay only $100 a year, everyone must pay tax or no one pays tax! That is the only “Fair” way. Everyone pays or no one pays!

  • Norm

    Mitt Romney and his wife, Ann, made $27 million in 2010. They held millions of dollars in a Swiss bank account and millions more in partnerships in the Cayman Islands. His family’s trusts sold thousands of shares in Goldman Sachs that were offered to favored clients when the storied investment house first went public. The couple’s effective federal tax rate for the year worked out to 13.9 percent, a rate typical of households earning about $80,000 a year.
    Now who would spend more and stimulate the economy the 80k household or Romney?
    Do you seriously believe that Romney’s spending habits would change if he paid even another million in taxes?

    • Bill

      Norm,
      Are you saying that we should tax investment income at the same rate as ordinary income?
      Or do you know the difference? Or let’s just say that you were smart (?) and you saved your money and bought some stock. You spent $10,000 and it became $20,000. You held it over a year (long term capital gains vs short term capital gains) and you sold it. Currently, you would pay 15% under that scenario. Do you think you should pay more?

      • Flashy

        Bill…if one were to direct such question to me, i’d respond…”depends”.

        If the adjusted gross income of the taxpayer is below a threshold, I’d say preferential tax rates should apply. What that would indicate to me is the capital gains is not the main or sole source of income. In your scenario, resume it is a couple with other employment, and the transaction you described was investment and savings. OK..preferential treatment. However, if the transaction you described was part of the overall income..i.e. was the ‘job” … then because it was part of daily income, it should be taxed as direct income.

        If total adjusted gross is above $250,000 … then it should have no preferential treatment. At that level of income, the money can be invested in other areas….property, REITs, partnerships, loans, or stock portfolios. The tax rates should be the same for all those…and the taxpayer can then select what investment in our Nation they would make. face it…the money isn’t going away, it will be invested. It’s the type of investment which would be the question. And with the rates being the same…certain targeted areas which are viewed as risky but needed (i.e. Alternative energy, R&D, etc) would stand to gain more by private investment choices because of a lower tax rate…and ease the burden on government to spend taxpayer funds on promoting…

      • Norm

        Short term cap. gains are taxed as regular income. Long term cap. gains are taxed at 0% for people in the 10 and 15 % brackets, and 15% for all others. Homes that are lived in by the owner and sold by the owner get a 250,000 exclusion for a single person and 500,000 exclusion for a married couple.
        I would give everyone a cap gains tax of 0 for the first 25k of gains. I would then tax at 15% up until 50k. Of course these amounts could be discussed. After that tax cap gains as ordinary income. An inflation factor could be added to reduce taxes on long term holdings. People who make millions in stock and bond transactions like Romney and many others are currently getting undeserved preferred treatment.

    • DaveH

      Norm says — “The couple’s effective federal tax rate for the year worked out to 13.9 percent, a rate typical of households earning about $80,000 a year.
      Now who would spend more and stimulate the economy the 80k household or Romney?”.
      That’s an easy one, Norm. Romney. The average citizen mostly spends their money to make one-time purchases of non-durable goods. Once those goods are used up, their remains land in the dump. The Rich (like Romney) spend a much larger portion of their money on Capital Equipment and other such investments which result in increased Productivity, thus more and cheaper goods for the rest of us. The purchased Capital Equipment also requires greater skill which results in higher-paid jobs for the workers. More and Cheaper Goods, Better and Higher-paid Jobs. Is there really any contest, Norm?
      For those, who like Norm, are just not educated about Economic Reality:
      http://mises.org/daily/5277/When-Capital-Is-Nowhere-in-View

      • Norm

        Romney, your great capitalist, never started a company or had any interest in creating jobs or making companies more viable. His one and only interest was in driving weakened companies out of business by NOT investing in automation and modern manufacturing techniques. In the process of destroying companies, he filled his pockets with as much cash as he could get his hands on. This is typical of corporate raiders. I’ve seen it happen many times in my own career, sometimes to my advantage and sometimes not. Let me state, as an aside, that modern manufacturing methods do not necessarily create higher paying jobs. As an automation engineer I worked on many projects that eliminated the need for skilled personnel.
        At least the 80k couple would buy needed items and create demand. Demand is the one and only thing that will increase supply.

  • mark

    Taxes are only going up on people who make over $250,000. And only on the money they make above $250,000 where their rate will climb from 35% to 39%, same as it was in the boom Clinton years. I’m sure that income bracket includes Mr. Wayne Allen Root. Probably the reason, he is so upset. Should have worked harder to elect Mitt “Moneybags” Romney. But Obama won. Get used to it.

    • Bill

      Mark,
      You forgot to add that Clinton lowered capital gains taxes by 40%

    • JC

      You seem to be completely ignoring a serious and obvious reality…it doesn’t matter who taxes what or by how much. Obama’s answer is more government and tax the rich…a sure fire way to kill the economy, which is obviously his goal. The Neo-Cons answer is bigger government and lower taxes to spur economic growth…which might seem like a good idea as well….except for the bigger government part. The problem is we’re way beyond salvation by either side of the political circus. The debt is simply too great and the economy is, without a doubt going to collapse.
      So keep preaching Obama and the GOP…as the ship goes down, it might give you some comfort later, but it won’t solve anything.
      What we need is to completely wipe the slate clean, get rid of the Globalists (and the UN)and return to our Constitution and hard currency. Nothing else will do. Nothing…

  • rb

    “Can the GOP Really Be This Stupid?” Yes Wayne. They nominated the first loser to John McCain as their golden boy to run against Obama despite the fact their base told them the people don’t want him. They inspired over 8 million registered voters to stay home from the polls by trying to shove the guy who finished behind McCain last time down our throats. They got what they asked for. People are no longer willing to hold their nose and vote for the establishment’s candidate. They want leaders who know they exist. Or more properly put…know they exist for more than just exploitation.

  • Norm

    Obama won the election 332 to 206 electoral votes. His big pitch was taxing couples on that part of their income that exceeds 250k at pre Bush rates. Only about 30% of Americans disagree with this.
    The US senate has already passed this bill.
    Many Republicans are now agreeing that the Grover Norquist pledge is not valid. Grover didn’t elect them after all.

    When even Bill Kristol, the severely conservative Weekly Standard editor, says Republicans should agree to raise taxes on the richest Americans, you have to wonder if the G.O.P. has thought through its post-election, hold-the-line strategy. “It won’t kill the country if Republicans raise taxes a little bit on millionaires,” Mr. Kristol said on Fox News.

    • http://gravatar.com/bychoosing Wake The Sleepers(Jay)

      Fox News? Now that proves you’ve been drinking the kool-aid. It also proves that the “dialectical-process” invented by Hegel and retro-fitted by Karl Marx, is working beautifully!

  • Gea

    I have just read Sara Palin Going Rogue, which put into perspective how politics played a part in electing Muslim Marxist who is now ruining USA and the rest of the world. Obama si very skillful in Taqiyya, an islamic principle of lying and is a master of deception, pretending to be on the side of middle class working America, when in fact he is in for POWER and deception. Republican politicians (just like Murkowsky was in Alaska) are sold out to big business just as Obama is, but they are not as good liars and the US Calioph-in-Chief, who should be impeached for treason.

    Obama is a rich man who gives only 2% of charity, while Mit Romney, the capitalist, gives 15%. Obama is a phoney baloney in everything he does. Hillary Clinton is being sued for her helping terrorists of Hamas and Muslims Brotherhood and Obama may be next. Perhaos this Law fare will get this Musloim Marxist our of Oval office before he does more damage to US.

    • Flashy

      “I have just read Sara Palin Going Rogue” Hopefully you were able to pick it from someone’s trash bin and not wasted money …

      • Bill

        Flashy,
        Nothing but intelligence coming out of your mouth

      • Flashy

        Bill..anyone who credits Sarah Palin for having intelligent thought is someone who is a few fries short of a Big Mac Deal. Definitely not someone who should not be allowed to handle firearms (they might shoot themselves)… and their cognitive thought should be questioned…

      • DaveH

        Flashman,
        Anybody, who credits you with credibility, is just plain deluded. Ask me to prove it, Flashman.

      • Right Brain Thinker

        Flash,
        Don’t forget to write anything meaningful or intelligent that Dave may say on the palm of your hand for future reference. It will all fit with plenty of room to spare. Worked for Sarah, should work for you. I’ve heard that Dave tries to use this memory trick but he can’t remember which hand he wrote on and gets “LOST”.

        (God, I miss Sarah—-she was so hot! So is Bat Poop Crazy Bachmann for that matter. I used to mute the sound and just look at them—-listening while looking was a turnoff).

    • Norm

      The president’s 2011 federal income tax return shows reported adjusted gross income of about $790,000 last year. Obama’s effective tax rate is just above 20 percent — lower than many Americans who earn less.
      Mitt Romney and his wife, Ann, paid $1.94 million in federal taxes on last year’s income of $13.7 million, for an effective tax rate of 14.1 percent. In 2010 it was 13.9% on 27 million
      You compare Obama to Romney? Get real!

      • Flashy

        Don’t forget, Romney had to pass on some deductions to get as high as his 14%. Wanna bet he amends those returns and pays even less ?

      • DaveH

        Norm,
        The average Cuban makes 1/6 the annual income you make. How about getting out your wallet and helping them out with your noble generosity?

  • Texas Ride

    W.A.R., great article!

    No time for me to post more, but you are on target!

  • http://www.facebook.com/tony.newbill1 Tony Newbill

    With the Environmentalist Marxists controlling Obamas every policy move RESTRICTING Adequate Growth in GDP heres whats happening with other countries trading without the dollar , The Giant Currency Superstorm That Is Coming To The Shores Of America When The Dollar Dies

    http://theeconomiccollapseblog.com/archives/the-giant-currency-superstorm-that-is-coming-to-the-shores-of-america-when-the-dollar-dies

  • Norm

    Some facts:
    1) The Top 1% Owns 40% of the Nation’s Wealth.

    2) The Top 1% Take Home 24% of National Income.

    3) The Top 1% Own Half of the Country’s Stocks, Bonds and Mutual Funds.

    4) The Top 1% of Americans Have Only 5% of the Nation’s Personal Debt.

    5) The Top 1% Are Taking In More of the Nation’s Income Than at Any Other Time Since the 1920s.

    Warren Buffett, one of the richest men in the country, wants to pay more taxes and thinks his super-rich friends should too.
    Buffett, who is estimated to be worth more than $47 billion, called on Congress to commit to “shared sacrifice” and raise taxes on people earning more than $1 million. Buffett said the rich are “coddled” by Congress “as if we were spotted owls or some other endangered species.”
    “While the poor and middle class fight for us in Afghanistan, and while most Americans struggle to make ends meet, we mega-rich continue to get our extraordinary tax breaks,” Buffett wrote in a Sunday New York Times Op-ed.

    • mark

      You’re absolutely right, Norm. Good post.

    • Bill

      Norm,
      You forgot to mention that Warren Buffet is in a tax dispute with the government right now in an amount over 1 billion dollars. Do you think he might be coerced a little to be the spokesman for higher taxes?

      • GALT

        Why don’t you ask him?

      • GALT

        BTW,,,,you are aware of the implication of the use of the term “multi” in conjunction
        with the word they are applied to?

        Also just for fun…….this liability is PERSONAL?

    • Nadzieja Batki

      If the top percentages own or take the wealth of this nation don’t you believe that they either produced or earned the wealth.
      You are an envious and covetous Leftist. Get off your lazy and stupid arse and produce things that are needed and go earn that wealth.
      The repeated mantra that you keep posting is to take, steal, destroy or have have others do your theft for you.

      • Norm

        Don’t you think Romney is a thief?
        He and his cohorts have done more harm than good for the US. The exodus of jobs, the near failure of financial institutions, and this entire depression were not caused by the middle class or the government. They were caused by the pure greed of some of the wealthiest among us.
        As for me, I am retired. I was fortunate enough to make a very good living by hard work, a good education and a great family. I’ve always paid my taxes and mostly at a higher rate than Willard. Even now, I pay at about the same rate as he does.
        How about you my kosher friend. How much do you contribute to nation that allows you religious freedom?

        • http://www.facebook.com/tony.newbill1 Tony Newbill

          Norm like any Small Business that has No choice but to participate in the current Economic trade Policies that have been in place since the Clinton Trade agreement with the formation of the WTO everyone either was forced by Cash Flows to Either be a Importer or be a Out Sourcer of a failed and flawed Government Trade policy and Romney was Forced like everyone was Forced to participate in this Stupid Trade Policy that has Taken us down !!!!! it was either that Or Go Broke with the way the monetary Policy and trade Policy was designed !!!!!
          They wanted Us all to become SERFS so they can Now Control us for the ultimate goal of Consumption control and reverse engineering Longevity !!!! Its all About Population control in the USA to be the New Model for the rest of the world to follow based on the environmentalist Marxists That Rule Obama !!!

      • mark

        Nadzieja, the vast majority of the rich in this country did absolutely zero to earn their money. They inherited it.

        • http://www.boblivingstonletter.com/ Bob Livingston

          Dear mark,

          You write: “… the vast majority of the rich in this country did absolutely zero to earn their money. They inherited it.” Please provide proof of this assertion.

          Best wishes,
          Bob

      • eddie47d

        Come on Mark the Banksters “earned” tons of money with their ponzi schemes. They milked us “fair and square”. LOL!

      • Robert Rashbrooke

        Nadzieja,

        I have to disagree with you, one cannot go work for someone else and get wealthy or even rich (by today’s standard).

        I work 45 hour weeks, have Medicare health coverage and practically no savings in the bank after 55 years of constant work. It isn’t a case of “getting off one’s arse and working hard” that is the problem, it is the unfair economic system that treats ME as a working unit and nothing else. No amount of dogma that you spout will alter the reality that the rich (however they obtained it)get the breaks and call the shots. Marx in his Das Capital laid out some interesting details that delineated the unfairness of the capitalist system that are still employed today.

        You are entitled to your opinions and beliefs, and I to mine. If your views are more logical and effective than mine, since I am not totally dimwitted, I may very well be influenced by them at some time after being presented with those facts and change MY opinion and view. It has happened before and will most likely happen again.

        I opined before that just because socialist systems are operated by mostly unscrupulous people does not mean that socialism per se is flawed. In any power vacuum the unscrupulous take advantage and control for their own benefit, same as fascists and right wing militarists do. From your name I imagine that your are of eastern European descent and suffered under some despotic socialist regime, which understandably colors your experiences and views. I have not had that experience so do not see life in the same way you do, but that does not negate or minimise YOUR history. Here in the US we have the luxury of being able to say, relatively freely, what we feel and think, about all sorts of things, including the government and President. When I lived in Malawi, if one did not listen to Hastings Banda’s radio broadcasts, one could be imprisoned for a year.

        In conclusion , I am afraid to say that I have yet to be convinced by your arguments that my belief is wrong!

      • GALT

        Dear BOB, you write:

        Bob Livingston says:
        November 29, 2012 at 1:24 pm
        Dear mark,

        You write: “… the vast majority of the rich in this country did absolutely zero to earn their money. They inherited it.” Please provide proof of this assertion.

        Best wishes,
        Bob

        You seem to be asserting that mark is in error.

        Please provide proof that your assertion, THAT his assertion is in FACT, an assertion?

        “Here we go round again, think I hear the bells resound again…….”

        Lyrics from a song from the Association’s first album….from a time, long, long, ago
        when things seem to have made more sense…….

        UP YOUR GAME PEOPLE!!!!!!!!

    • Nadzieja Batki

      No Romney isn’t a thief but you would like him to be so you would be able to justify your thinking.

    • DaveH

      Norm says — “The Top 1% Take Home 24% of National Income”.
      Yet they pay 36% of the Income Taxes. That’s “fair”?
      Most importantly, those who are blinded by Greed for other peoples’ money, should read this:
      http://personalliberty.com/2012/11/29/can-the-gop-really-be-this-stupid/#comment-770844

    • http://gravatar.com/bychoosing Wake The Sleepers(Jay)

      Funny you didn’t mention George Soros, Norm. Just as well, you wouldn’t want to shine the spot-light on the world’s richest crook, now would you?

  • Norm

    Wayne Allyn Root
    Hmmm. Was that not you who predicted Romney by a landslide only a month ago?

    • mark

      Exactly. It is the very same genius.

  • Louis Lemieux

    What would Republicans say if elected Democrats had someone like Norquist to whom to pledge to never allow cuts in entitlements like Medicare and Social Security!?

    • Right Brain Thinker

      Good question!

      Hypocrites that they are, they would get out the pitchforks and flaming torches and run screaming into the streets.

      They would say that the Democrats were violating their oath of office because they were not representing those who voted for them, but were instead serving the interests of the 99% rather than the plutocracy.

      But wait, isn’t that what they were elected to do? So who is violating their oath of office by “pledging”?

      It’s all so confusing to any of us who try to think rather than blindly follow bankrupt dogma.

  • northbrook

    Apparently the GOP is that STUPID. About to fall for the same democratic trick again and give up ll their leverage without securing a spending cut. Reagan fell for it the Bush 41 and both paid a price for it. This time the GOP should let the democrats go over the fiscal cliff if the democrats do not bargain fairly. No matter what the GOP will take the hit and the democrats the win as the liberal media will see to that.

    • Right Brain Thinker

      Reagan and Bush 41 “fell for” nothing. To their credit, they both RAISED taxes, Reagan more than once. They were both being good presidents in doing that because they were putting the good of the country ahead of narrow and wrong-minded ideology.

      What “price” do you see Reagan paying for that anyway? Bush 41 is to be admired because he knew that it WOULD hurt him badly but he did it anyway because it was right. Just as he flew into enemy fire off Iwo in WW2, knowing he could be shot down, but doing it anyway because he was fighting for “right”.

      To reword your last paragraph to better reflect the truth: “This time the Democrats should let the Republicans push us over the fiscal cliff if the Republicans do not bargain fairly—-the GOP has held the country hostage to their failed ideology far too long. The GOP will take the hit and the Democrats the win as the nation sees that the Republicans do not care for the greater good of the nation but only for the 1%”

      • Flashy

        RBT –> ” Bush 41 is to be admired because he knew that it WOULD hurt him badly but he did it anyway because it was right. Just as he flew into enemy fire off Iwo in WW2, knowing he could be shot down, but doing it anyway because he was fighting for “right”. ”

        Deserving of copying …

    • Norm

      The GOP has a choice. They can do nothing, as usual, and have everyone’s taxes go up or they can “play ball” with the Democrats and only have a slight increase for the top 1%.
      The Dems. have the Presidency, the Senate, and a better position in the House. Most of all they also have the support of the majority of Americans. The GOP has Grover Norquist who, now that he is visible, is becoming a very disliked nasty character.
      I think the choice is rather obvious to any sane human.

    • Nadzieja Batki

      The political pendulum has swung to the Left, so in effect the GOP is no longer conservative or right. Simply they are Democrat/Progressive/Leftist Lite. The Democrats are no longer the Democrats of even 40 years back. The difficulty is to admit the shift took place and new names have to be created to describe the changes.

  • rendarsmith

    GOP? Democrats? What’s the difference?

    • Louis Lemieux

      What 100% of the new GOP House committee chairmen have in common is that House Committee Chairs will all be white men In the next Congress.

      Republicans don’t care that much about the need to reach out and broaden their appeal to women and minorities. That’s a big difference right there between Republicans and Democrats!

      • http://www.boblivingstonletter.com/ Bob Livingston

        Dear Louis Lemieux,

        You write: “What 100% of the new GOP House committee chairmen have in common is that House Committee Chairs will all be white men In the next Congress.” I guess Romney didn’t share his binders full of women.

        Best wishes,
        Bob

      • Bill

        Louis,
        There is an old saying that applie to you: “If you keep your mouth shut, they just think you are stupid. If you open your mouth, they will know you are stupid”

      • Right Brain Thinker

        And mostly OLD white men at that.

        Bob says “I guess Romney didn’t share his binders full of women”. Is that a joke, Bob? Or are you admitting that Romney’s (and the Republicans) abysmal tone-deafness about women was a major factor in his defeat? Not funny, that (at least to Republicans).

        Bill says: “There is an old saying that applie(s) to you: “If you keep your mouth shut, they just think you are stupid. If you open your mouth, they will know you are stupid”. And he then proves the truth of that by opening his mouth and showing us that HE is stupid! LOL, Bill—-thanks for the laugh of the day.

      • Nadzieja Batki

        What is Louis L.’s preoccupation with women having power in politics? Is there some problem with his identity that he cannot identify with men and needs women to rule over him?

      • Louis Lemieux

        Bill, Nadzieja,

        Trying to shut me me up especially using stupidities to weaken my selfworth just won’t work!

      • Texas Ride

        Women are not a minority. Why do lefties always want to lump women in with minorities.

        The blacks must be stupid or they wouldn’t be voting for democrats. I guess they like the KKK. It was the demonrats that burned the crosses and other nasty things. Demonrats want to keep blacks on the plantations and ply them with handouts (even the so-called half-black in the oval office.) Blacks sold their souls for government checks. Those government checks have resulted in 70% of black babies being born to unmarried women. Think that is good for the black community.
        Who is playing who in this scenerio. The blacks are the ones losing and they are losing any worth they might have had to the American community.

        And, name me one country that is governed by blacks that is prosperous and free! They are all corrupt.

      • Deerinwater

        Bob Livingston says; ” I guess Romney didn’t share his binders full of women.

        Best wishes,
        Bob”

        I guess not ~ for clearly we see no evidence of it today. ~

        I’m pulling my punch out of respect Mr. Livingston.

      • Deerinwater

        Texas Ride says:
        November 29, 2012 at 5:20 pm
        Women are not a minority. Why do lefties always want to lump women in with minorities.”

        Because they are seen as lesser to Righties. ~~ That they refuse to talk as much, fart as loud and spit as far and smell as bad as men confuses Righties.

        • http://pmbalele.wordpress.com pmbalele

          Candy Rice was most qualified as VP for Romney, but was dumped by GOP and Romney. That’s a lesson to all Black and White women. In fact I have never understood why white and black women, poor white and black males join the Republican Party. First it treats women like side-shows or second class citizens. Second it abuses them. Third GOP has crafted a bill to command women what not to do with their bodies – Sharia law for American women. Still women are in GOP. You remember how they treated Michele Bachmann, Sarah Palin, Herman Cain, Michael Steele and now West. – Terrible. Sarah whined – FoxNews has dumped her. Candy Rice whined in her book that Dick Cheney had refused to meet and discuss anything with her. Dick is a white rich typical rich white republican male who could not and cannot take idea from a woman. Dick is from North Wisconsin where he was raised to treat women as trash. Please you black and white women of America – leave GOP alone – it’s not for you. Join the Democratic Party. And thank you for voting overwhelmingly for President Obama.

  • Terry Bateman

    Wayne Root says no to higher tax rates or reduced/eliminated tax deductions/credits.
    I guess that leaves economic growth with it’s increased tax collections and reduced
    federal spending as his method of reducing the federal deficit. My best suggestion for
    economic growth is to encourage corporations to earn their profits in and pay taxes
    to the United States by reducing the federal corporate tax rate to 20% .My next suggestion
    is to tax all other businesses at the same 20% rate that are currently taxed at individual
    rates. As for reducing federal spending, elimination of grants and loans for college
    students and elimination of all agricultural support programs would save a bundle.

  • http://personalliberty Pat Alexander

    Our goverment, “The Fraud Traingle”.

  • Bill

    Gotta go to work and make some money.
    It sure is hard work trying to educate the ignorant

  • http://wildeyguns.com The Christian American

    One thing about human nature. Everything a person does has a motive and that’s PROFIT. Kill people’s profit motive and that society is on the way toward extinction. The rich want to get richer. What do they do with their money? Employ people, that’s what. They have the smarts to build businesses where people are employed. Personally, I don’t care how wealthy a man is. He’ll invest his money which creates employment. We spend fortunes sending our children to Hall of Indoctrination, hoping they will get rich, then we tell them, if you get rich, watch out, the predators in our society will be out te get you.

    That’s where the real predators in our society come in and their called politicians. They pit people against each other and call themselves “saviors” for doing it. Of course the people have to watch people looking to get rich. They must be held to the same laws as the rest of us. When they see people as their own ant colony, they must be held accountable. We’re all equal but we either earn our own equity or inherit it and have to play by the rules to keep it.

    Hitler said: 90% of the people, I can deal with emotion. For the rest I have to reason with. Historically the democratic party is a party based on emotion. The Republicans use to be people that reasoned before acting. Today? Everybody can make up their own minds about today.

    We must stop looking for the pie in the sky these politicians keep bringing us. Every election they bring “hope” and every election things were worse tha the year before. The Republicrats are not the answer. We must look at ourselves and to God, the source of wisdom. If we don’t like what we see, correct it, and don’t look to some politician to do it for us. Their promises are based on lies, even if they won’t admit it to themselves. We are the source of everything. Practically eveyone of us can stand just as tall as a politician or their spokesman in the media. We can do their job as well as they can. Question everything until we get the right answers, and they don’t come instantly or through emotion.

  • DaveH

    Wayne asks “Can the GOP really be this stupid?”.
    Stupid or not, the roots of the GOP were in Crony Capitalism (or Mercantilism). Nothing has changed since then, except the GOP has managed to convince their followers that they are the party of Small Government. Hardly.
    The Democrats, meanwhile, don’t even pretend to eschew Big Government.
    You are being played, Folks, by self-serving Politicians who will promise you Arpege, but give you Toilet Water.

    • Flashy

      This oughtta be good. Sit back and be ready to be entertained RBT , Norm, et al.

      So DaveH…since your new catchy phrase is Crony Capitalism, without linking to Mises since you should have some independent thought as you are the one directly complaining…how would you end Crony Capitalism as currently practiced in DC (in your view).

      A reality based solution…not one which is spouting inane nothingness…

      • DaveH

        I only offer the solution about 1, 2, 3, 4, or 5 times a week, Flashman.
        But for those reading-challenged people, like Flashman, who just can’t catch on, no matter how many times I post it, here is the answer:
        Free Markets.
        Get the Government out of our Marketplaces so they can’t favor their Cronies with special regulations, bailouts, subsidies, quotas, tariffs, price controls, favorable taxes, and the myriad other ways that the Big Government which Liberal Progressive supporters, like Flashman and his ilk, enable.
        For those who would like to be more knowledgeable than Flashman and his Handlers want you to be:
        http://mises.org/daily/1973

  • Smilee

    You are not accurate in your saying that the rich do pay their fair share, proportionately they do not. They are only taxed on income from labor (wages)equally and in Romney’s tax forms he had no income from wages which meant he paid a much lower rate of tax on his income taxes and was not required to pay SS or Medicare taxes at all as they are taxed only on labor (wages) and I believe he had income of about 26 million on the taxable amount for income taxes which was taxed at much lower rate and this on his taxable income only not his actual income of which he had many ways to reduce his taxable income which is not available to most. Is there something wrong with this picture? If sales taxes, which many states have. Were taxed that way you would only have to pay the tax on say for example your first 20 thousand dollars of purchases each year and then where exempt for the balance of the year would you also think that fair. For example, those like Romney bought 300 thousand dollars worth of taxable items in the year and only paid sales tax on 20 thousand of it and a poor person bought 20 thousand and paid on the whole 20 thousand they would have paid the same tax and that is how the income taxes on the rich are calculated and you say that is fair because the total dollar amount paid by them is greater for the rich but the proportionate amount is a lot smaller for the rich and in reality not a fair amount and again this author tries to convince us it is fair based because the amount of dollars collected from the rich are greater in total but proportionately it is a much smaller amount and thus it is not, fair your argument is pure spin. And those that spin it this way would scream to high heaven if sales taxes where collected in this way. The high income people’s taxes are reduced either through deductions mostly only available them and on non earned income the rate has been reduced greatly and we are supposed to believe that they do not pay their fair share that is crap this is a actual tax perk for them, Buffet and other in that income bracket realize this and that is why they think taxes on the rich should be made fairer and the current proposed increase in their taxes will still not make it fair just fairer. This is bogus and needs to be put in its proper perspective and not spun as the GOP does. To me it is an insult to the intelligence of those whom know arithmetic and Clinton said it is simple arithmetic and honest people know that and can figure out what is true fairness. We are also told that these are the job creators and increasing taxes will kill job growth. BS job growth comes from demand and when demand returns they will create jobs despite this tax increase and if that was true then why did they not create jobs in the last decade, especially the last four years, the opposite was true due to lack of demand and spendable income by so many in society reduced, further if they paid existing people with jobs a living wage then many of their employees would actually pay income taxes and have more spendable income and by spending it or some of it would drive up demand and help the economy but no we have now created earned income credit to subsidize these under paid employees in addition child care etc which is welfare for the working poor which the Great Society poverty programs never provided welfare to these were created in the 80’s and 90’s mostly by republicans with the lobbying efforts of the so called job creators and the GOP and the rich created the a large part of what Romney called the 47% and because of that they pay less personal income taxes on much greater incomes than before and most on non earned income with is taxed about half the rates that lower income people pay proportionately. Those of us who are old enough remember the days when welfare was not for working people but them the wages in most cases were a living wage. There has never been a year (from 1962 to date that I have not paid income taxes but I had a living wage and now good pensions which neither are available to many today. We have not had so many poor people in the country since the great depression and wealth has been sucked upward to the rich in the last thirty years and the thus the 47%. It amazes me how it was not called class warfare when wealth was created for a very few by sucking the wealth from what used to be the middle class but not class warfare if wealth is moved back in some way to the middle class and the GOP and others see class warfare as a one way street. Simply not true and it is making us into a third world country and this malarkey of not taxing the rich more and fairer is shear baloney because that is not what it is it is an effort to make it a little fairer but it still will not be fair. Polls show that the vast majority of Americans understand this and the GOP may have to compromise some on this in fact they will as they are now over the barrel what they are looking for is a way to save face and still get more money from the rich and I believe they will to some degree.

    • http://www.facebook.com/tony.newbill1 Tony Newbill

      Smille its a Trophy that Obama seeks Nothing more Nothing less this tax hike on the rich !!! It only will run Obamas Government for a additional 9 days Barely !!!

      • Smilee

        You miss the point entirely!!

      • http://www.facebook.com/tony.newbill1 Tony Newbill

        No Smiley you miss the point completely because nothing you said makes any difference at all when the total debt is unable to be paid for unless the Obama administration is willing to Increase the rate of GDP growth to record levels with Pro Economic growth policies and that doesn’t mean Government funded Projects , and we sure as heck don’t see that coming out of any rhetoric Obama is talking about , He is Only talking about taking from the Producers plus Regulating them with such Stiff Laws that Profits are Unsustainable .

      • Smilee

        GDP cannot be raised by the president this one or any, other one. It will rise when demand returns and business hires again and it would help to if the paid living wages instead of mooching off the taxpayer through wage subsidies by earned income credits, child care subsidies and other working poor welfare that came into being in the 80′s and 90′s which where initiated by the GOP and lobbied for by business giving them these big perks. These were a part of the landscape when Obama came into the picture and the GOP has no desire to change this and have said NO to almost all Obama has wanted to do. After world war two our debt as percentage of GDP was at the highest in history and we solved that problem by increasing the demand (a biggie at the time was the interstate highway system) and raising the taxes to a very high rate on individual and corporate income taxes and this solved the problem so if there is the will the way has been proved how to do it before, Grover Norquist and his gun to their head approach has been very destructive to any solution and that has to change before there is a chance. If they work with Obama there is not a doubt it will be solved as he would cooperate with that but not the silliness that the GOP proposes.

        • http://www.facebook.com/tony.newbill1 Tony Newbill

          Spin Spin Spin Smilee Presidents can CERTAIN effect GDP growth with the policies fool !!!!

      • Smilee

        Tony Newbill says:
        November 29, 2012 at 12:24 pm

        DON’T JUST SAY SO, TELL US HOW!!

    • DaveH

      Smilee says — “You are not accurate in your saying that the rich do pay their fair share, proportionately they do not”.
      Proportionately?
      As Norm so happily pointed out — The top 1% of income earners earned 24% of the national income. BUT, they pay 36% of the Income Taxes:
      http://www.ntu.org/tax-basics/who-pays-income-taxes.html

      But even if they didn’t, the truth is that we all are guaranteed Equal Treatment under the Law. So why should anybody pay more than anybody else? We don’t fill out an Income Statement at the Grocery Store before they price our groceries do we?
      Leaders have promoted this class-warfare to ignorant greedy followers because the Leaders can acquire more Power and more Wealth that way. And the followers lose because the Leaders don’t produce Net Wealth, they consume it. That leaves the rest of us holding the bag.
      I realize that there are just ignorant people out there whose gazes are so firmly fixed on other peoples’ money that there is no educating them. But the rest of you should read this book (Especially Chapter 7) and learn what’s really going on, because you are being taken advantage of, and it’s likely that you just don’t know it:
      http://library.mises.org/books/Kel%20Kelly/The%20Case%20for%20Legalizing%20Capitalism.pdf

      • Smilee

         DaveH says:
        November 29, 2012 at 1:00 pm

        Smilee says — “You are not accurate in your saying that the rich do pay their fair share, proportionately they do not”. Proportionately?
        As Norm so happily pointed out — The top 1% of income earners earned 24% of the national income. BUT, they pay 36% of the Income Taxes:
        http://www.ntu.org/tax-basics/who-pays-income-taxes.html

        YOU ARE NOT TALKING ABOUT EQUAL PROPORTIONATELY IN THAT ARTICLE BUT YOU ARE COMPARING AGI VS PERCENTAGE OF THE TOTAL TAX REVENUES AS A WHOLE AND THAT DOES NOTHING TO ILLUSTRATE EQUALITY AND FAIRNESS IN TAXATION, ALL PAYING THE SAME PERCENTAGE OF AGI WOULD AND THAT IS NOT WHAT THAT ARTICLE TALKS ABOUT OR NOT WHAT I WAS TALKING ABOUT.

        Treatment under the Law. So why should anybody pay more than anybody else? We don’t fill out an Income Statement at the Grocery Store before they price our groceries do we? WHAT????????????? SUCH A STUPID STATEMENT!!!!!!

        Leaders have promoted this class-warfare to ignorant greedy followers because the Leaders can acquire more Power and more Wealth that way. And the followers lose because the Leaders don’t produce Net Wealth, they consume it. That leaves the rest of us holding the bag
        WHAT????????????? SUCH A STUPID STATEMENT!!!!!!

        I realize that there are just ignorant people out there whose gazes are so firmly fixed on other peoples’ money that there is no educating them. But the rest of you should read this book (Especially Chapter 7) and learn what’s really going on, because you are being taken advantage of, and it’s likely that you just don’t know it:

        THIS DOES NOT ADDRESS MY POINT SO FORGET IT!! WHY ARE YOUR REPEATING YOURSELF IN SEVERAL POSTS, YOU BEEN DRINKING???

      • DaveH

        Sorry Sleepee, but that wasn’t very convincing. Perhaps if you YELL some more, I might start to think you must be correct.

        • Smilee

          Truth never is to you Davy nor is convincing you a high priority due to yur lack of credibility to most

      • Deerinwater

        “DaveH says:
        November 29, 2012 at 1:00 pm
        Smilee says — “You are not accurate in your saying that the rich do pay their fair share, proportionately they do not”.
        Proportionately?
        As Norm so happily pointed out — The top 1% of income earners earned 24% of the national income. BUT, they pay 36% of the Income Taxes:
        http://www.ntu.org/tax-basics/who-pays-income-taxes.html

        I say; David, you need to actually run a business and learn to live off of profits and only then can this simple math reveal the hard truth to you. ~ It’s simple to some to see and all but impossible for theirs.

        Some people mind get it quickly and some don’t , regardless of how hard they try.

        It’s a “hard wire ” issue. ~ accept that you are good at “other things” ~ and let it go.

        For example, “Some girls think that I am a “pretty” man, I don’t discourage them, while I know the truth.

    • DaveH

      Smilee says — “You are not accurate in your saying that the rich do pay their fair share, proportionately they do not”.
      Proportionately?
      As Norm so happily pointed out — The top 1% of income earners earned 24% of the national income. BUT, they pay 36% of the Income Taxes:
      http://www.ntu.org/tax-basics/who-pays-income-taxes.html

      • DaveH

        But even if they didn’t, the truth is that we all are guaranteed Equal Treatment under the Law. So why should anybody pay more than anybody else? We don’t fill out an Income Statement at the Grocery Store before they price our groceries do we?
        Leaders have promoted this class-warfare to ignorant greedy followers because the Leaders can acquire more Power and more Wealth that way. And the followers lose because the Leaders don’t produce Net Wealth, they consume it. That leaves the rest of us holding the bag.
        I realize that there are just ignorant people out there whose gazes are so firmly fixed on other peoples’ money that there is no educating them. But the rest of you should read this book (Especially Chapter 7) and learn what’s really going on, because you are being taken advantage of, and it’s likely that you just don’t know it:
        http://library.mises.org/books/Kel%20Kelly/The%20Case%20for%20Legalizing%20Capitalism.pdf

  • FreedomFighter

    Your American Leader B. H. Obama:

    Will now squeeze the financial life out of all Americans, higher taxes for the “rich”, combined with ObamaCare–the biggest (hidden in plain view) tax hike in the history of America, maybe the world.

    The compression resulting from this finacial tax squeeze combined with the devalue of the dollar thru Quantatative Easing will destroy the lives of millions of Americans, further reducing the quality of millions more. This will not create jobs, will not pay the trillions owed, will not solve government overspending, it only furthers the agenda of destroying America.

    Laus Deo
    Semper Fi

  • naura hayden

    Mr. Root, of course you’re 100% right, but you’re missing the motive for their going back on their words re raising taxes — it’s the reason that senators and congressmen should have one six year term only. They’re pandering to their constituents by letting them know they won’t cut the “freebies”. The congressmen believe that will assure them of another re-election.

  • noel

    and when the money runs out…?
    “Then problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people’s money.”
    Margaret Thatcher

  • Mary

    Oh get off your soap box. President Clinton raised taxes on the wealthiest Americans to the level Pres. Obama wants to raise them back to now. Clinton also cut the Defense budget and the right screamed about that one. Guess what? It worked, the budget was balanced for the first time in decades, the rich are still rich, many richer, and the nation is still the strongest military in the world.
    The right screams about the entitlement programs that the poor depend on. What about all the corporate welfare consumed by big business. Cut all “entitlements” for the wealthy and there will be no need to raise taxes on the wealthy. The money will pour in when they all pay their fair share of their income.
    The problem is the people making our laws are mostly those who fall into the top 10% so they do not want to vote against their own interests. If they are afraid of not being re-elected, why should they care. They retire at 100% of their pay for life.
    The American people should be hammering away at cutting out this kind of fiscal abuse, not Social Security and Medicare, that are retirement and medical insurance, that people pay into all their working lives so they have a safety net when they are old. This is only beneficial to the country in the long run.
    If Congress is serious about bringing down the national debt, they could do it without getting rid of social programs the poor depend on. These programs need a better system of checking for fraud and abuse. At one time they were more accountable but then funds were cut to the programs and that was the first place to be cut.
    By the way, it is not the government that wants population control. Women want to be able to have a career and make a better life for their families. Not every family makes 6 figures in their yearly income, in fact, most do not. Smalller families are more about the economy and freedom of choice than any devious plan the government may have. Providing for a couple of kids, including college, is a lot less expensive and obtainable than providing for a half dozen or more kids. Most families want the freedom of birth control. Everything is not a conspiracy. Most things are simply what they are.
    If you want to talk conspiracy, the consevative right wants to do away with birth control to increase the population because they fear the Muslims will take over the world by their sheer numbers, since their religion forbids the use of birth control methods. Since the right can’t really campaign on that , they make it all about abortion and now they are pushing the “personhood at conception” crap. All for the same above reason. Talk about devious plans. They are experts at it so I guess they think everyone else is just like them.

    • Nadzieja Batki

      The shell game was played and even though you lost the money you still believe in the game.

      • http://www.facebook.com/tony.newbill1 Tony Newbill

        Mary the Cuts in Security Clinton did gave us 911 , don’t be a fool !as far as Clintons 1990s boom economy it was the gifts of Reagan’s Pro growth policies that Clinton then rode farther on when he out sourced our Manufacturing base to the #rd world totally with the Trade agreement he implemented , then that Peaked in 200 with the tech Bubble that was Clinton’s failure .

      • Smilee

        Tony Newbill says:
        November 29, 2012 at 12:22 pm

        Mary the Cuts in Security Clinton did gave us 911 ,

        CUTS HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH, HOW STUPID A STATEMENT, IT WAS THE TERRORISTS FLYING THE PLANES, I THOUGHT EVERY ONE NEW THAT, CLINTON WAS NOT EVEN PRESIDENT ON 9/11

        don’t be a fool !as far as Clintons 1990s boom economy it was the gifts of Reagan’s Pro growth policies that Clinton then rode farther on when he out sourced our Manufacturing base to the #rd world totally with the Trade agreement he implemented , then that Peaked in 200 with the tech Bubble that was Clinton’s failure

        .BOY ARE YOU EVER CONFUSED, NO TRUTH WHAT SO EVER IN THIS STATEMENT OF YOUS EITHER.

      • eddie47d

        That Tony is becoming a pro at spinning! That was a classic!

      • http://gravatar.com/bychoosing Wake The Sleepers(Jay)

        Actually, Tony is correct. Clinton just got on his surf-board and rode the “WAVE”!

    • Charlie R

      Hey Mary;
      OBAMA is no Clinton. And If that has to be explained, you wont understand.

    • http://Yahoo.com Bill

      Mary – I don’t give creedence to people that reply and want to call names and put the poster down, so I will apologize to you for the following – You are Nuts.

    • Right Brain Thinker

      Don’t listen to the fools, Mary. You have spoken to truth here and the fact that “certain folk” have derided you and called you names proves it.

      It’s like throwing holy water on a vampire—-you throw truth on the fools and they start to smoke and scream, just like this bunch.

  • noel

    THE

  • James Maxwell

    Unfortunately in the GOP today we have to many spineless leaders who are only interested
    in staying office at any cost. We do not have leaders nor people of vision, there were some
    but the “Old Guard” of the party scoffed at them and next thing you know we have people
    leaving the GOP for the TEA Party. In 2008 we had Sarah Pahlin jolt and wake up the
    base but John McCain could not excite a cough drop. As a result of extremely bad
    advice from the advisors they did not do any thing and stiffled Sarah in her attempt to
    wake up America. In this past election we had Mitt who as a business man should have
    been able to present the financial problem to the public and if he had stayed on message
    might have made a difference. But to many in the party (and democrats) got stuck on
    his relegious beliefs. We had Paul Ryan who could have excited the base if he has been
    turned loose to attack the left on their lack of financial solution and how they were the
    cause of the fiscal cliff we are facing today. Bottom line unless we replace the “Old
    Guard” get some new blood into the party and bring in others such as Blacks Hispanics
    and Women in to the party and run them for office we will not be able to compete in
    any elections that are forthcomming. The Left has used the Government coffers to give
    all the “Entitlements” to those who basically do not pay taxes but for the most part get
    Welfare, Social Security benefits, food stamps or other government entitlement programs
    assistance. The Social Security was origianally desigend for those who had paid in all
    their working life to be used to supplement their retirement. but the government has
    opened the floodgates to Criminal Illegal Alines and others who have never contributed
    a single pennie to the fund. They have made it possible for the Criminal Illegal Alines
    to file tax return on kids that are in foreign countries and do not require them to prove they
    even have children. We have people on unemployment for over two year and counting.
    Many continued to look for work, some found work and some retired. The majority of
    them though just gave up or took jobs at a lower wage if they could find them.
    The botton line is our nation is in greater peril than in the past financially. We have become
    a self indulgen society and peole want instant gratification and not have to wait, plan
    or earn somethign. We have taught the younger generation to whine, cry or throw
    tantrums like little children timm Mommey and Daddy give in and give them their way.
    Now we are seing the results. Time to wake up and get serious America or lose all
    of your freedoms.

  • Ron r

    Run for office if you know so much about the subject. Stop complaining and. E part of the solution

  • JW

    The US Dollar has lost at least 30% of its purchasing power since 2008, with Federal income tax rates remaining the same.

    In essence, the US tax payer has received a tax decrease by paying with devalued dollars.

    The government – Federal Reserve intends to devalue the dollar further, QEIII.

    Future revenue to the government will continue to be worth less and less with each following year.

  • Gordon in Texas

    To answer the question in your title: “Can the GOP really be this stupid?” Yes, they can be this stupid. And yes, they ARE this stupid. Once again, the Democrats and Republicans are showing me that there is absolutely no difference in their policies once they’re elected. I do understand that there are exceptions to the “rule” but, to the majority, once elected, it seems that it’s one-size-fits-all in Congress. And, once again, it’s “What can I do to get re-elected?” instead of “What can I do for this country and its citizens?”

    Want to change the politics in this country? Stop voting Republican or Democrat. Send these losers a message. Send them home and make them actually earn a living. The majority of these “elected” officials are back-slapping parasites that are in lock-step with eachother. Smiling all the way to the bank.

    • http://Yahoo.com Bill

      Most often, things have to get worse before they get better. There is the democratic party, and the republican party. There needs to be a conservative party and they need to get their message out in plain english (if it takes much longer – add spanish). It seems when someone hears “Conservative” it has the same meaning to them as “Drug addict”, “Child molestor”, “Rapist”. You get the picure. Will the Tea Party be that party – I don’t know. They have a good start – Tea party people that I have ment seem to be standup people, informed people, respectful people, and most of all, not sheeple.

      • http://pmbalele.wordpress.com pmbalele

        TEA Party, what is TEA Party! TEA Party was not there against tax cuts. It is a racists cult engineered to bring down President Obama because of his race. They have failed and the cult is now dead. TEA Party has now been replaced by Labor Union Party. American workers were lied by TEA Party to accept GOP candidates. However, GOP governors and legislators are now abusing American workers by stripping their union rights. Even TEA Party members have drifted away from TEA Party and GOP. Remember some of TEA Party and Republican members are labor union members.

      • Gordon in Texas

        You just replied to one. The Republican Party has morphed into something no one recognizes; even their own members recognize their party for what is should be.

        It’s really quite simple. We need to get back to our roots; the roots that made this country great. Responsibility, accountability, and the desire to excel have been replaced with blaming others, not holding anyone’s feet to the fire, and a lazy “just good enough” attitude. The public school system has been teaching young people that “just good enough” is OK. That’s a recipe for failure; as a person, a company, an industry, and a nation.

      • Gordon in Texas

        Pmbalele,

        Nice comand of the English language. Ever hear of an “article?” Just another misinformed fool who didn’t take the time to understand the nature of a Republic, the US Constitution, and the Bill of Rights.

  • Charlie R

    When one segment of the population is attacked, no group is safe.Taxing the rich is only a question of who is rich. Knock off the ones at the top and the second tier becomes the “wealthy” then the third and so on. Obamas wealth redistribution agenda means exactly that and he will not be satisfied until his global ambitions are achieved thru the UN.

    Now for those who are unaware, the new liberal idea is to tax wealth, not income but wealth. This is a UN inspired idea taking root in America as you read this.
    For those of you that focus on national current events and politics open your eyes to Obama’s behind the scenes UN treaty negotiations. There are five of them, the first two of which are ATT( UN Gun Control in the US) and the LOST treaty ( which will require the US to pay royalties to the UN for each barrel of oil taken from off shore drilling)

    All you Obama supporters are going to be very, very happy with Obamas social justice agenda when he goes global with your money.

  • David

    Quote: “Only those totally ignorant about the economy — those who have never actually created a job — believe the fairy tale that taking money away from the top spenders, investors and job creators isn’t going to further damage the economy.”

    You mean people like Warren Buffet?

    • Charlie R

      NO David the comment refers to small business people.
      They are the ones that create jobs and they are not the Warren Buffets of the world.
      When Obama says he wants to “tax the rich” he means anyone over 250K , so he says.

      However, Obama will tax small businesses too and that will get business owners making the 250K and less. You know David there are not enough rich people to fund current levels of government spending so Obama will have no alternative but to tax the middle class.

      Obama is already saying that middle income taxes will go up $2000 in 2013 if the republicans do not go along with his tax plans. Understand the implications of his statement David, you are smart enough to see thru what Obama is setting up from a political perspective, aren’t you?

  • Wizzid0

    Time for the TEA Party to get off it’s dead ass and make their presence known. The Republican Party has proven itself to be punk! Since Reagan and G.H.Bush they have fallen for the Democrat lies that if you only increase taxes now, they will reduce spending later! Bull!! Reagan fell for that line to the tune of 3% spending cuts that never happened and George H. did likewise for 2% cuts that likewise never happened. It’s time to tell those lying S.O.B.s to put up or shut up. Come across with the 5% in back cuts they promised us BEFORE any tax increases can be put on the table. Then the TEA Party needs to start a 3rd party approach, and to hell with the punk ass Republicans who have no guts to call a liar for what he is. Replace anyone who is willing to discuss increased taxes on any demographic before the spending cuts are put into effect. It’s time to be assertive!

    • http://Yahoo.com Bill

      I’ve said before, kind of like you’re saying now. The tea party is a viable party, more concerned with fiscal issues Vs social issues. They need to cut themselves from the Republican party or “Force” the republican party to change their ways. Right now, the Dem and Rep party is like Bud and Bud light.

  • ONTIME

    You will find no Real Republicans in disagreement with the context of this blog…

    The need to remove the elite incumbents and the RINO’s from both parties is more than a necessity, we are now on the verge of having not a two house congress but a soviet style politiburro and a total disappearance of all representation.

    The reform and repair call for term limits salary only, no retirement for all elected and appointed government officials, the use of a national sales tax to replace the progressive tax is what is needed to take away the use of tax discrimination and class warfare.

    The want of representation is a imperative, a accountable budget, elimination of elitism is how we WTP put the civil back into public service…..

  • http://Yahoo.com Bill

    If I read it correctly, I think Ann Coulter said to give the Dems what they want, just to make it clear to the american people who ownes this economy. In one sence, she’s right. But, I don’t have any faith in the majority of the people to be smart enough. The next 4 years will be just as bad as the last 4 and if another democrat (Hillary) is elected, her economy will be just as bad for 4 to 8 years and these people will still be blaming Bush.

    • http://jmcgraphicdesignworks.wordpress.com jcfromdc

      I would’ve actually trusted Hillary to do a better job than “O”. At least she has her hubby’s leavening of working with a majority House in her favor.

  • http://jmcgraphicdesignworks.wordpress.com jcfromdc

    NO MATTER WHAT…. when all is said and done, and everything goes literally to the dogs, next election, the Republicans will take it on the chin (again) because “they voted for it, too”, thereby shifting the blame to the their side of the aisle (again). I hope to HELL, the center-right can come up with someone who can at least APPEAR to be credible, smart, and judicious with everyone else’s money and make it stick and stick it to, whomever the Democrats will put in Obama’s place. The One-Party government is almost permanently established. It’s taken them 80 years, but they have succeeded. The liberal fascists have won… while WE the People slept. Or was it schlepped? Whom do we blame?

    Four years is too little to come up with anything like a credible 3rd (and winnable) Party. The Republicans can’t wipe the egg off their faces without smearing it back on. The Democarts have successfully bribed the Republic with the Republics’ own money (remember deToqueville?). Tho’ they only get back 10-20 cents on the dollar taxed (if that), they think it’s a “good deal”. The Libertarians are too flaky on foriegn policies to be taken seriously by anyone, and domestically seem too far left for conservatives, too far right for liberals. ANY Third/New party will have to overcome ALL of those hurdles to get a man in the White House. And, for that to work and remain credible, that same party will need to win at least a credible or sizeable enough minority in both houses to get past 4-8 years of total deadlock.

    Rotsa ruck. China will be the next superpower. By then they will own us.

  • http://jmcgraphicdesignworks.wordpress.com jcfromdc

    The answer Wayne is:
    “Yes They CAN, DO and HAVE”, given their many leaderless, and rudderless, chances to prove it over and over.

  • 45caliber

    I think one of the big problems with the GOP is that most of the senior leadership served during the time that the Demos controlled Congress for about 50 years. They were forced to make deals to get anything passed and they still believe that deals must be made in case the Demos get back in power again. GOP goals during that time were modest and still are while the Demos who expected to get whatever they wanted still want to live that way in Congress. Until we get some GOP leadership who is NOT used to making deals all the time, we will continue to be amazed at how the GOP acts with the Demos.

  • S.C.Murf

    Both sides are going to do what it takes to let us go over this so called fiscal cliff. That’s what they want, they will blame each other but we will still have to live with higher taxes, which is exactly what they are after. It’s all part of their end game. I am curious to see their reasoning next year on the assault of our 401k, private pensions and any other monies they have no control over. I’m afraid it’s going to get uglier.

    up the hill
    airborne

  • http://www.facebook.com/peter.b.rutkiewicz Peter B Rutkiewicz

    Here is what’s going to happen: the Republicans will not extend the tax cuts for families under $250,000 and we will see a backing off of Holiday purchases as this becomes common knowledge. The fiscal cliff will be reached and we will go into a deeper recession because of it. When 2014 mid-term elections are held, Republicans in both the House and Senate will be held responsible for their failure to act on behalf of the people. They will lose their seats and the Democrats will control the Senate and the House. Obama’s ideas will be blended with the ideas of Congress and will become law. We have already seen what Obama can accomplish in a short time. The country’s economy will begin to improve as the Presidential Election of 2016 approaches and the great majority of voters will recognize the difference between an economy by Democrats and an economy by Republicans. The Democrats will gain again, further strengthening their control of both houses and the new Democratic President will guide the country through eight more years.The Republican Party, having lost its way and having clearly demonstrated the extent to which it has lost its way, will be no more. We will see moderate Republicans declaring themselves Independent just to disassociate themselves from the radical right wing and the failure of their economics.

    The voters are watching and they will remember what occurs and how it happened. In the next Presidential Election, there will be Bill Clinton and Barack Obama stumping and you know they can talk to the people today better than Reagan could. World War II vets are nearly all gone. Its a matter of congressional Republicans cooperating with Obama now or create such an economic problem that they suffer the inevitable loss of their office and set the stage for a Democratic sweep in the next two elections. Cooperate or be removed and risk killing the Republican Party before it can adjust to the new paradigm.

    Senate and House Republicans should only be beholding to “We The People”, not Capitalists and Religious Fundamentalists or preconceived notions about taxes, economy, Medicare, Social Security, Defense, and Health Care. Can Republicans serve two Masters? Sometimes the two masters are the voters and their own unique thoughts.

    In my view, it would be a sad state of affairs for one party to dominate. The views of middle of the road Republicans, representing all voters from their State or their District are assets. But the right wing has gone radical and is not representing the people who elected them. They need to lead, follow or get out of the way. They’ve tried to lead…didn’t work, now its time to follow or get out of the way. They could just simply abstain from voting, washing their hands of what occurs afterwards if that is all they can bear. Time will tell who was right.

    • Right Brain Thinker

      Well said, Peter. With one exception

      I have read a number of commentaries that have said there are many steps that can be taken to ward off the “deeper recession” you posited if we actually do go over the financial cliff because of the Republicans.

      One was accompanied by a cartoon showing a big feather bed sticking out of the cliff face just below the precipice. The bed was labelled “soft landing” and was not visible to the elephant that was pushing O’Bama closer to the edge. The “soft bed” must represent all the “cards” and “outs” that are available to O’Bama.

      In fact, the best case scenarios about going over the cliff have the Repugs looking very very bad, O’Bama looking very very good, the economic recovery really starting to speed up, and, as a result, the Repugs fading into history. Nice bed time story.

  • braindeadus

    The republican party where stupid in voting for Romney, and not Ron Paul he would have won.

  • chuckb

    p rutkiewicz, let barry have his way, he has dug this country in a hole so big they will never dig it out. just look at california politics, that’s where the u.s. is headed and it was all done by the bolsheviks.
    i agree on the timidity of the republicans, you have to give them leeway, they are just not very brave.
    ww2 saved fdr, maybe barry will arrange for ww3 and save his stupid rear end. the bolsheviks got us into this fix since 2007, g bush was too weak to stand up against them
    and should take some of the blame, however, some of the blame goes back to clinton, he was instrumental in starting the fall of the mortgage failures which led to the financial breakdown.
    your next candidate will be hillary (the bull dike) she will start her run for the heirarchy and bill will be back in the white house, that is if it is still standing.
    did you know barry and moochella have cost the tax payers $1.5 billion dollars for their upkeep and entertainment since their election in 2008.
    now you can look forward for the next four years, i’ll bet they set an even higher price for their lifestyle in the next four.

    • Right Brain Thinker

      LOL and LMAO at the $1.5 billion dollars that “barry and moochella” (known by Real Americans and Patriots as President Barry and Mrs O’Bama) have supposedly cost us for their “upkeep and entertainment” since 2008.

      Let’s do the arithmetic and write it out so chuckb can “carry his ones”.

      $1,500,000,000 divided by 1460 (365 x 4) equals just over a MILLION DOLLARS A DAY

      Wow, that’s a lot of upkeep and entertainment! That’s because the $1.5 billion figure includes MANY other things, like $200 million for Air Force One and $271 million for a fleet of helicopters. (Or maybe you’d like barry and moochella to fly coach with United? or better yet, take a bus?)

  • RevNowWhileWeCan

    Message to the two party followers:

    It should be apparent to you by now that this corrupt, two party system is doing exactly what was planned. The plan that was and is meant to keep the people distracted by minor differences while they, partnered with pundits and sheep, magnify those slight differences in platforms to dupe you into blaming the other party while they continue to line their pockets, bankrupt the country and keep the status quo rolling without getting anything done for the good of the people under the guise of ‘gridlock’. Isn’t it strange to you that when tough decisions pertaining to the betterment of the people is brought to the forefront that they can only find this ‘gridlock’ the propagandists MSM like to keep touting but when it’s against the betterment of the people it’s gets done with hardly a whisper by late night bill passing on New’s Years Eve or the quite, no fanfare, ‘executive order’?

    It should be apparent now that the voter shenanigans leading up to and during the GOP convention and general election that this DUOPOLY will do everything in it’s power to keep itself in power.

    It should be apparent that the people no longer, for the most part, want to be in either party because the biggest voting bloc, the Independents, was at something like 40% this year! The biggest change in voter demographics ever! If you still hold a bias for one of these party’s then you either have a direct stake in helping perpetuate this mirage or you are willfully ignorant and with almost unlimited resources available, ignorance cannot be an acceptable excuse. Nothing will change as long as we are playing their game with their rules. How could we expect it to? I don’t understand how, they lie to us, we know they lie, they know we know they lie and yet we still vote for one of them??? Why would they change? They have no incentive to make an actual change that may benefit the people! What if I promised to help you out and you came back to me and I said my friend will help you, then you come the next day and my friend says that was wrong and I will help you and you walk away empty handed again? You come back each day expecting one of us to help you but each day you walk away again empty handed. Now keep coming back to one of us looking for help except this time, every time you come, you give us a little more of your money! Sounds pretty silly doesn’t it? Sounds pretty familiar too!

    It should be apparent by now that as long as either of these corrupt party’s are in power no positive change can make it’s way up through the grassroots and into a workable non-partisan solution. Even the term ‘non-partisan’ is funny to me because it imply’s that there are sometimes only ‘partisan’ issues which is exactly what it is at all times! With our country already broke, our civil liberties all but a foot note and the continued suppression of the voice of , We The People………………,
    it should be apparent that we all must,

    Revolve Now While We Can

    • Joe America

      It’s refreshing to read the truth.

      Thanks!

  • John

    The income tax is unconstitutional. It was never legally ratified. The Republicans who plan to vote for a tax increase are Idoits. Vote for somebody else. Not a Democrat.

    • Right Brain Thinker

      The Sixteenth Amendment was never ratified? Not even after 42 of the 48 states ratified it by March 7, 1913? And after many court decisions saying it is legal to levy income taxes? And we’ve been doing it for ~100 years?

  • Don the britton

    Let the dems raise taxes, that way there will be no need to raise the debt ceiling. Right?

  • Conspiracygirl

    What’s this…? Last time I read anything about Root he was proud to be a Republican again. Didn’t take long for him to start calling them stupid again. Go figure.

  • Bob666

    What do you expect, they are republicans! Eight years of George “W” Bush should tell you how this fairy tales ends.

  • http://gravatar.com/bychoosing Wake The Sleepers(Jay)

    To all the “raise the taxes” loving-lunatics; there is no need to raise taxes. Just cut the size of the the Government down to a 1/3 of its present size…now that, would be an excellent start! Mind you though, what would we do with all that excess, no longer needed, blubber? I suppose we could boil it down and use for fuel…? Oh oh…wait for it…

    • Right Brain Thinker

      Wait for what, Jay? It took no time at all to see that your metaphor was stupid. What I’m waiting for is for you to make a positive contribution to the thread. Now prove my point by laying one of your “snarky” but stupid comebacks on me. (Or have your fellow Stooges do it for you—same difference)

      • http://gravatar.com/bychoosing Wake The Sleepers(Jay)

        Brain: Now prove my point by laying one of your “snarky” but stupid comebacks on me. (Or have your fellow Stooges do it for you—same difference)

        I dare not, as i couldn’t hold a candle to yours!

      • Right Brain Thinker

        Jay once again proves my point for me by just being Jay and doing what Jay so mindlessly does. He can’t back off from an ass-kicking and just keeps coming back for more? Maybe masochism is among his many deviances from “normal”?

        You might try lighting that candle, Jay—-bring a little light into that world of darkness you inhabit. That might also help you see that there is very little “snark” (love that word) in my comments, especially when compared to those from you and the Stooges.

        Where are they (he) today? JeffH and DaveH is/are sitting in the corner of the closet arguing with himself (themselves)? (Now THAT was snarky and it felt good—I am only human and enjoy a good snark, especially when it’s warranted)

      • http://gravatar.com/bychoosing Wake The Sleepers(Jay)

        See brain-dead, i was right. Your snarky and stupid remarks are far superior to mine. So now i will humbly bow to one greater than i. That being you, of course!

      • Right Brain Thinker

        OINK, OINK, JAY!

  • Olin Ross

    Could Wayne Allyn Root be that stupid???? Certainly could because he possess the same mindset of these lamebrain Tea bagger…….Hey Mr Wayne FYI 65% Americans agree that the 1% should pay their equal share of income taxes…..In a Democratic society majority always win…If you feel that it’s unfair that you pay the same rate as everybody else do then you should get the hell out of the USA….

  • http://gravatar.com/bychoosing Wake The Sleepers(Jay)

    It doesn’t matter if 65% of Americans agree that the 1% should pay their equal share of income taxes, Olin. The reality is that the 1% does not agree with the 65%, and since the 1% owns and controls the political-system(both parties-including Obama), the propaganda-machine(all-media), and the economic-engine(including the Federal Reserve and Wall-Street); just how in the world will you convince the 1% to pay a higher rate on their income? But i think you’re confused about who the 1% are. The 1% is “code” for the middle-class(you and me), which the 1% feel they haven’t milked enough!

    • Joe America

      Where have you been? Brilliant! I agree with everything you’ve said.

  • chuckb

    the top 1% paying the the so called fair tax means nothing and will not solve the problem, the problem was “re-elected,” the problem is harry reid and the bolsheviks. the other problem is the number of people who were stupid enough to put this jackass back in the white house for four years.
    they want to raise tax, they want more entitlements, welfare and food stamps or they are sucking the government teat by employment.
    raising tax isn’t going to help, we are headed for the worse depression this country has ever seen, maybe barry can start up the wpa again, i would like to see these professional welfare leeches work for their dole. it’s coming. (i’m not referring to the misfortunate who truly are in need)

    • http://gravatar.com/bychoosing Wake The Sleepers(Jay)

      chuckb, when Obama promised “Hope and Change”, what he really meant to say was; “Hope and Food-Stamps”!

      • Right Brain Thinker

        Were you a speech writer for Romney, Jay. Did you write all those “zingers” for him—you know, the ones that went over SO well with the voters? Are you the source of his “tone-deafness” with regard to the problems faced by the 99%.

        Food Stamps are no joking matter, Jay, unless you think children going to bed hungry is funny. Have you ever known any hungry people, Jay? Have you seen the figures about how many of the middle class have been forced to rely on food stamps?

        I’ve said it before, Jay. Much of what you spew on this site is the Oink Oink of a moral and intellectual pig. Lord love a snarky pig.

      • http://gravatar.com/bychoosing Wake The Sleepers(Jay)

        Brain: Were you a speech writer for Romney, Jay. Did you write all those “zingers” for him—you know, the ones that went over SO well with the voters? Are you the source of his “tone-deafness” with regard to the problems faced by the 99%.

        99%? You must be Obama’s speech-writer. Now, considering the fact that you are so familiar with my posts, and having responded to them all with your brilliant wit, one would think that by now you would a semblance of a clue as to what i think about the “Mitt Romney”; Obviously, you do not!

        Brain: Food Stamps are no joking matter, Jay, unless you think children going to bed hungry is funny. Have you ever known any hungry people, Jay? Have you seen the figures about how many of the middle class have been forced to rely on food stamps?

        Do you do anything else with your time besides parading yourself as a witless-tool, Brain?
        Of course poverty is no laughing matter, but neither is creating it and then using it to satisfy your self-serving interests, which you and your crony-capitalists-swine seem so adapt at!

        Brain: I’ve said it before, Jay. Much of what you spew on this site is the Oink Oink of a moral and intellectual pig. Lord love a snarky pig.

        You’ve said many things before, Brain, all of which expose you for what you really are; a predatory-Neo-con-fascist-swine disguised in socialist clothing. Btw, God hates hypocrites!

      • Right Brain Thinker

        Jay is again so frantic to defend himself that he fails to really read and understand what I said—-getting to be the story of his life—- Jay says something nasty and/or stupid, has that pointed out to him by me, and Jay then doubles down with more stupidity rather than intelligence.

        Jay says, “99%? You must be Obama’s speech-writer. Now, considering the fact that you are so familiar with my posts, and having responded to them all with your brilliant wit, one would think that by now you would a semblance of a clue as to what i think about the “Mitt Romney”; Obviously, you do not!”

        I would be honored to be among O’Bama’s speech writers. I do send him messages from time to time and I a have a magnet on my refrigerator saying that I am a member of his “Honorary Kitchen Cabinet”—got that as a “prize” for a triple digit donation—-it will remain there until he is replaced by another Democrat in 2016. He even followed my advice one time, but that’s a story for another time.

        “Familiar with your posts”? And “responded to them all”? You flatter yourself, Jay. I read them mainly in passing, ignore many of them, and respond to the most egregious of them with a wit that is certainly more “brilliant” than yours.

        And “What you think about Romney’? Point out some original thought about Romney that you posted and I’ll look at it to see what you “think”—-most of your posts are just copying and parroting of other people’s ideas that you gather from the piles of horsepucky on the more extreme conservative web sites. If not that, they are generally some of them there “adhominem” critters and therefore meaningless.

        I said, “Food Stamps are no joking matter, Jay, unless you think children going to bed hungry is funny. Have you ever known any hungry people, Jay? Have you seen the figures about how many of the middle class have been forced to rely on food stamps?”

        And Jay again proves himself to be a moral and intellectual pig in his response to that very direct indictment by saying, “Do you do anything else with your time besides parading yourself as a witless-tool, Brain?” OINK-OINK, JAY You evaded the question.

        And I shouldn’t point this out to Jay because it might give him a clue on how to become less clueless and stop wasting his time, but since he IS so clueless he may not understand it. So, I will point out something for the benefit of those who say to themselves “Yeah, Jay— right on—tell that commie!”

        RBT’s operate from a base of rational analysis of facts and arguments rather than emotion and raw belief. When Jay and the Stooges spout all their mindless epithets like “Brain”, “witless tool”, and the “you’re using ad hominems” we also see so often, my RBT says to me LMAO because they are so irrational and unthinking. So, after a chuckle, it all rolls off my back and I get back to the work of looking at facts and arguments and beating Jay down nearly every time. Notice I said “nearly every”, because I did agree with Jay at least once. The fact that he has NEVER agreed with me once should tell the world a lot about Jay. He can find “truth” in the piles of horsepucky he copies to us but not even OE WORD in all that I’ve posted on this site? Defies logic.

        Again in closing, OINK-OINK, JAY

      • Right Brain Thinker

        OOOPS—-in my haste to once again point out Jay’s inadequacies to the world (Jay’s not listening), I failed to comment on part of his “oinking” I refer to Jay’s saying:

        “You’ve said many things before, Brain, all of which expose you for what you really are; a predatory-Neo-con-fascist-swine disguised in socialist clothing. Btw, God hates hypocrites!”

        WOW!, Jay. From what horsepucky pile site did you copy that little string of “what I really am”?

        BY THE WAY, GOD MUST NOT HATE HYPOCRITES AS YOU ALLEGE. (WAIT FOR IT….)
        IF HE DID, YOU WOULD HAVE BEEN STRUCK BY MULTIPLE BOLTS OF LIGHTNING AND DESTROYED LONG AGO. BUT MAYBE HE HAS TRIED TO SMITE YOU? MAYBE YOU’RE JUST TOO “FAST ON YOUR FEET” FOR HIM? HE HAS HAD MANY NEAR MISSES, THOUGH. (WAIT FOR IT….) BUT THEY WERE CLOSE ENOUGH TO FRY YOUR BRAIN? ETC. ETC. (and ba-da-boom! as the comedians used to say)

      • http://gravatar.com/bychoosing Wake The Sleepers(Jay)

        Just admit it, brain-dead, you enjoy having your nose wedged firmly in my behind, and sniffing at my written cherry-pies like a dog in heat. It seems prison life has left a rather indelible mark on your psyche. Well, you know what they; you can take a boy out of prison, but you can’t take the prison out of a boy…now i finally get it, oh brainless. Masquerading as a history professor, hey prisoner? Nice touch!

      • Right Brain Thinker

        Oh my, I’ve gone and done it.

        I’ve thrown the “holy water” of truth and rational thinking on that idea-sucking vampire known to us as WTS(Jay). He is screaming and thrashing and smoking and melting before our eyes—–Just like in the movies.

        i apologize to all for Jay, as I am sure he would want someone to do if he were not so deluded. You are many ugly things, Jay, but an expert in what sounds like “perversions” is a new one to me. Are you “experienced” in all this nose-in-behind, sniffing, cherry-pie, prison life stuff you’re talking about? Sounds kind of sick to me—-are you sick, Jay?

  • Joe America

    The GOP members ready to cave will do so because they are fearful they will not be re-elected. It’s clear to them that the majority of Americans now want freebies, and like the good polititians they are, they will give it to them. The majority of Americans are now on the dole, so you have an upside down pyramid, a minority, providing for the majority. This is unsustainable, but that’s what Americans want. And, every good polititian knows that, if you want to keep being re-elected, you will give people what they want. It’s the new Socialist American Republic way.

  • allosaur

    Too many RINOs is why I left the Republican Party. A RINO would include Bush. Both of them for a fact.

  • Merl

    Sad but true, as long as our leaders keep spending like drunken sailors, they need to tax everyone until the debt is paid down–this is how debt makes us all poor. Massive debt is not redistrution, it is just plain theft. I say kick the crooks out and get responsible leaders in who have the guts to stand up and say stop business as usual and do the right thing for our nation and its people. Repubicans who have no spine and surrender to Dems for the sake of their careers, personal comfort and security are in effect telling the people who put them in office that they do not matter.

  • http://gravatar.com/bychoosing Wake The Sleepers(Jay)

    The IRS was originally created as a “temporary measure” during wartime (funny how the Canadian Revenue Agency was also supposed to be “temporary”), but there is nothing temporary about it now. In fact, the gigantic IRS complex in New Carrollton, Maryland was built in 1997 and is still growing today, indicating that this institution is indeed here to stay.

    This modern building has all of the state-of-the-art amenities one can think of, but it is the odd public art in front of it that is the most noteworthy.

    As is the case for many government buildings, the art displayed means absolutely nothing to most people, but to those who are versed in secret society symbolism, its implications are manifold and profound. In fact, fully understanding the origins and the meaning of the symbols in front of the IRS building means understanding who are truly in power in America (and around the world), what they believe in and what they truly think about us, the masses.

    The IRS is not known to be a very artistic institution and likewise there is not much art present at its headquarters in Maryland. However, the few pieces that are on display manage to convey everything that needs to be known about the occult elite.

    Check it out:
    http://vigilantcitizen.com/sinistersites/sinister-sites-irs-headquarters-maryland/

    • Right Brain Thinker

      Not quite sure what Jay is talking about here—-maybe he just likes to hear the sound of his own voice? His talk of edifices and symbolism is perhaps leading to a clever connection to the Third Reich, Hitler, and Nazi symbols? And “occult elites”? Lord love a duck.

  • Right Brain Thinker

    GALT,

    There are getting to be too many comments on here and it’s getting hard to reply to one and have it make sense vis-a-vis proper placement in the “stream”…It appeared to me as if you took umbrage over Peter R saying “you had “the Con”. Since I have agreed with a few things Peter has said, I feel that he is not a Stooge like Jay and DaveH-jEfFh-dAveH but merely mispoke. I think he meant to say “conn” as in the naval usage of conning, i.e., you are steering the ship and doing it well. It’s Jay and the many H’s who are the “cons”.

    • GALT

      I made no judgement….I played off the word……but since you have brought this
      up………let us be be clear here…….

      You are in a foreign land, besieged by idiots…. you are outnumbered…..

      and now you just made an assumption…….which is WRONG!!!!!!

      I am not one of YOU…..I am not one of THEM……..I am a P.L.F.

      Because you are outnumbered……..and I appear to BE on your side….doesn’t
      mean we are on the same side………I am on the side of “intelligence” for the purpose
      of “mutual benefit”……………….and what irritates me MOST is that your opposition
      SUCKS……..and you just keep letting them get away with it………

      I meant no offense by playing off the word “con”….hopefully he is not
      as fragile as you seem to suggest……..he didn’t really say anything….in fact…
      he was a bit “wishy washy” in handing the baton to me………

      Intelligence, having it or using it, isn’t a team sport…….this is not to say that
      there are not “synergistic” possibilities…..P.L.F. ism is about those possibilities.

      “The enemy of my enemy is my friend.”

      That makes perfect sense…..but it is not who I am……..

      My enemy is the “willfully ignorant, functional illiterate”……….regardless of “origin”

      and I especially don’t like them when they feel comfortable……..

      I am here to define, correct, re-direct, challenge, propose, ask, and offer….so
      far I haven’t made a dent………

      Now you have the “con”……..play with it!

      • Right Brain Thinker

        Not to appear as a functional illiterate but I have racked my brain over the meaning of “P.L.F” to no avail. I don’t recall you ever defining it for us, so I’m probably not willfully ignorant, but I would appreciate an explanation so that I can fully understand what you’re telling me here, and thereby be better prepared to “take the CON”.

  • Monika Louwinskee

    Hi, Wayne. Remember, these gymnastics are all sherades for the entertainment of the masses. The political Sociopathic/parasitic/bureauracratic stooges for the INTERNATIONAL oligarchic rich have no other interest than to race the US to the bottom (The World is Flat, Friedman), so as to devalue currencies, drive down standards of living, and establish at first, regional currency equilibrium and then global values. For this trade off of american wealth and values, our “leaders” are generously compensated. They are all stooges……they are all traitors.

    • Monika Louwinskee, a fat whore, but tastier than my hore wife……

      Hi, Wayne. Wayne, you shortened my handle! Figure if the collectivist sleazebag can insult the women on the “right”, i.e., Palin, etc., then, whats good for the goose…..

      • Monika Louwinskee, a fat whore, but tastier than my hore wife……

        Hi, Wayne. The sleazebag collectivist I omitted is Bill Maher. Apologies for overlooking this Marxist stand-in.

  • Mark P.

    Warrior, The gubmint hasn’t BECOME a den of thieves. It has BEEN a den of thieves, regardless the Party ‘in power’ for the last 100 years, at least.

  • Brazzos

    Only you Wayne Allyn Root.

  • Lance

    Think ahead 20 monthes. We have gone over the cliff, the Republicans did not agree to thetax increases on the rich that Obama demanded. Now there is the 2014 election. The choice facing a voter who makes $250,000 year is to either relect the Republican majority in he House of Reprentatives which would continue the stalemate since Obama would remain as president, or throw out the Republicans which would allow Obama to implement the tax cuts for 98% of those earning $250,000 or less. Who is giing to vote to keep the stalemate whem installing the democrats will drastically reduce their taxes. game set and match Obama, and he knows it.

  • Bert Cundle Sr.

    UNFAIR TO TAX ALL CITIZENS!!! Raise the Taxes 500% on Republicans!

  • bwheeler

    What right does a government have to come into your life and demand your money anyway. It’s highway robbery – There was a time when there was no income taxes and the nation was stronger for it

  • Marty S.

    Excellent article Wayne. We have already taken concrete actions to lower our lifestyle, live way below current means, and lower taxable income to poverty levels and otherwise prepare to ride out the coming storm. After the SHTF and our dollar has been completely destroyed, Obama’s disastrous presidency is a distant memory and constitutional government is again in vogue, then and only then will we have true freedom to begin rebuilding.

    • http:/eimbasciati@gmail.com Elizabeth Imbasciati

      I agree Wayne’s article is great. However, the Dems get their way by telling a lie enough times so ppl believe the lie. They said all through the campaign that rich Dems (I did not think there were any rich Dems-only rich Reps) were happy/eager to pay more in taxes. If thats true why are rich Dems in California & elsewhere leaving not only their state of residence but the United States in droves due to higher taxes by States (especially California) & proposed Fed tax increases to hang on to the wealth they want to redistribute according to Barry?

  • Bert Cundle Sr.

    Mr. Root:
    You are a great example; that having wealth, doesn’t mean you have wisdom!

    • GALT

      Even worse, he doesn’t have wealth……………….

      • Right Brain Thinker

        GALT,

        I saw something here or maybe on another thread but I’ve lost it amongst the drivel from the functionally illiterate. An exchange between Karolyn and Vicki (or maybe Kate8) about the $30 million house O’Bama was buying in Hawaii. Did you see it?

        Somebody actually cited a PARODY news site as a source! I think I’m going to start citing Onion articles myself.

  • jopa

    Are the GOP really that stupid the question was asked.I wonder if they would take the advice of someone who predicted a landslide win for Romney??If so then they would really be stupid.LOL

  • http://%URL% 404

    What’s up, this weekend is fastidious for me, as this time i am reading this impressive educational piece of writing here at my residence.

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