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Calls For Gun Control Not About The Children

December 19, 2012 by  

Calls For Gun Control Not About The Children
UPI
On Saturday, a couple advocating gun control held vigil in front of the White House.

“It’s for the children.” That, in essence, is the crux of the new impetus to institute stricter gun laws in the wake of the Sandy Hook Elementary School shooting last week.

Mayor Michael Bloomberg, Senator Chuck Schumer, Mayor Rahm Emanuel, Senator Diane Feinstein —  even pro-gun Senators Harry Reid and Mark Warner — are now turning to more gun laws as the answer.

It’s all about the children. That’s what they say. And looking at the faces of the children taken from us, it’s emotionally easy to agree with them. After all, who can understand such a heinous act as taking a rifle into a school and gunning down a bunch of 6-year-olds?

But who are Bloomberg, Schumer, Emanuel, Feinstein, Reid and Warner? They are statist totalitarians. They’re playing on emotions — the emotions of a grieving populace — to advance their agenda. They don’t care about children. They’re disingenuous.

How do I know? If they cared about children, they’d be weeping over the thousands of children that President Barack Obama has killed with drone strikes and air raids in Pakistan, Libya, Syria and Africa. If they cared about children, they’d be outraged that 2,000 babies are aborted every day in America, many on the verge of being born. If they cared about children, they would oppose corporate average fuel economy (CAFE) standards that have made automobiles lighter — and, therefore, deadlier — and mandated air bags that have caused the deaths of thousands of children and adults in car crashes.

Politicians don’t care about children. All they care about is stealing liberty and acquiring more power. If a few kids die along the way, well… never let a crisis go to waste; eh, Rahm?

Bob Livingston

is an ultra-conservative American and author of The Bob Livingston Letter™, founded in 1969. Bob has devoted much of his life to research and the quest for truth on a variety of subjects. Bob specializes in health issues such as nutritional supplements and alternatives to drugs, as well as issues of privacy (both personal and financial), asset protection and the preservation of freedom.

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  • Jeremy Leochner

    Sadly politicians will use anything to advance an agenda. I feel in this case many such as Bloomberg have genuine interest in the issue and do care about children. I think Bloomberg is one who goes to far in terms of banning guns which I believe violates the second amendment. But I think he genuinely believes in stronger gun laws. I do not agree with him on how strong they should be. But depending on the laws I think they could do to be a little stronger.
    One thing I would point out Mr. Livingston. With all due respect “standards that have made automobiles lighter”. I hardly think the decrease in weight is going to so significantly speed up the car that a reasonably capable driver cannot cope with it.

    • czman75

      “The RIGHT of the PEOPLE to KEEP AND BEAR (fire)ARMS SHALL NOT be infringed!
      Read it, learn it, repeat it around liberals often….

      Lighter cars mean less metal, less metal means less protection period!

      • Flashy

        CZ….the no compromise wall you’re talking about is about to be breached. And you’re taking yourself out of having any say in the final outcome. Gun control is coming. it’s about time. It is time to stop the insanity that has weakened this nation and been a festering boil on its body. The calls from the gun wacko’s is for guns in schools, guns in malls, guns in movie theatres. ARE YOU ALL NUTS ??????

        We have a Right to walk in safety. Your frippin’ “Right” for you and the deranged to walk around packin’ armor intrudes upon that. Scalia himself stated the 2nd may be “burdened’ in time, place, and manner. And types of guns may be limited and /or banned.

        The title to this article is “Calls For Gun Control Not About The Children”

        That is correct. it’s about sanity.

        • http://www.boblivingstonletter.com/ Bob Livingston

          Dear Flashy,

          Two days ago I posed a question to you. It was as follows:
          “Given the fact that it is one’s inalienable right to own guns, and given that the Founders agreed that the Constitution should specifically ensure that that right could not be taken away by government, and given the fact that there are about 310 million non-military guns in the U.S., and given the fact that, according to Gallup, nearly half of all U.S. households own at least one gun, and given the fact that at least half of all those polled believed upholding the right to own guns was important, and given the fact that Connecticut has the fifth most stringent gun laws in the U.S. (according to the Brady Center), and given the fact that the most recent school shooter broke no fewer than six laws before he began shooting school children (including laws against being under 21 in possession of a handgun and in possession of a gun specifically banned under Conn. law), how do propose to realistically “get the guns off the streets and allow people to be safe?”

          You have yet to answer it. I read the long missive you wrote in response, and the gist of it was:
          1) Make it more difficult for the bad guys to get a gun. (No explanation of how this will be done.)
          2) Keep them in the home for defense, but disassembled. (No explanation of how they’ll be available for self-defense in a disassembled condition.)
          3) Require “national” concealed weapons permits. (Concealed carry permits already required in most states.)
          4) Require mandatory classroom instruction, live fire and situational awareness training. (Already required in some states.)
          You may or may not be aware that all gun crimes are committed by people who are breaking already established laws. To wit: Using a gun to commit a robbery breaks at least two laws. (The law against robbery and using a firearm to commit a felony.) Using a gun to kill someone breaks at least two laws (The law against murder and using a firearm to commit a felony.) I could go on. Lawbreakers, by definition, disobey laws. Gangbangers in Chicago mostly obtain their guns on the black market or by theft. In doing so, they are breaking several Illinois laws. (Illinois’ laws prohibiting gun possession remain in place.) Instructing them to obtain a permit and undergo training is a fool’s errand. Requiring registration and background checks before they can purchase is silly and inconsequential. As I pointed out, Adam Lanza (if he was indeed the shooter), broke several laws before he ever shot the first child. It is as yet unclear if he received any formal training in handling the weapons. We know his mother at least practiced using them. There is no evidence that requiring him to undergo mandatory classroom instruction, live and situational awareness training would have prevented his murderous (likely prescription drug-fueled) rampage. In some cases, guns used in the commission of recent mass murders were legally obtained.

          So, I will ask the question again, phrasing it slightly different. What law(s), short of an outright ban and confiscation of weapons (which you say you don’t support), do you propose be enacted that the criminal element will obey that will in turn make everyone safer or prevent any future attacks? Before you answer that one; answer this one: What weapon was used in the deadliest school attack in U.S. history?

          Best wishes,
          Bob

      • Mark111

        @Flashy. Sorry, you have no idea what you are talking about. Check the stats. Violent crime rates across the USA are down. Mass murder (3 or more) rates are down. Rates for rape, robbery, and assault are down. The leading area for the decrease in these crime rates is in the South where all us hicks “…cling to God and our guns…” The crime rates for these crimes are up in the northeast where the gun laws are strictest. Source: FBI crime stats readily viewable on the internet.

        I was looking at a list on Nationmaster.com that listed the top 37 countries for violent crime rates. The US was not even on the list. But, Finland, Sweden, Australia, Belgium, Denmark, the Netherlands, France and Italy were.

        Don’t be fooled by looking at the number of crimes. Look at the rate because that is your likelihood of being a victim.

      • jdn

        Its all about transforming the US into the grand New Mexico . It will be fantastic when all available money goes into government salaries and spending . No more social programs to speak of . No more second amendment or other troublesome rights . But we will still have our shining beacon of liberty the Vote and we can all cower in fear of both the crazed criminals and government forces . The future is something to look forward to , God Bless a gun free America .

      • Flashy

        Mark….FYI. The Americas rank just below Africa. I also looked up the UNODC list of homicide rates and violent crime. We rank below African countries and half the S American countries. Nice rep to have as a modern nation eh?

        UNODC murder rates most recent year
        Region Rate Count
        Africa 17.0 169,105
        Americas 15.4 144,648
        Asia 3.1 127,120
        Europe 3.5 24,025
        Oceania 2.9 1,180
        World 6.9 466,078

        It’s time to stop the insanity. Less control on guns and allowing mass distribution is insane.

        We have a Right to be safe when we go out to movies, malls, schools, etc. The 2nd can be “burdened’ as the Rights clash.

        You want to be in a gun ruled society? Go to Beirut.

        It is time to stop the insanity. And when gun nuts refuse to join in the debate, and demand unfettered guns everywhere…they have removed themselves from the debate, and from being part of the solution

      • TIME

        Dear Flash,

        Are you really that deluded? I, as well many people I know have not only owned guns for years – but have not shot nor killed anyone with noted guns, thus we are not all nuts and killers.

        Your mind set ~ based on your post is of of a person who is total lacking self esteem, with no base from what to form any type of valid opinions on.
        You’re driven by propaganda saddly not unlike most people with limited IQ value, not to even mention lacking worldly experience to base or form any type of valid opinion from.

        No FREE MAN is ever TRULY FREE ~ if they don’t have equal ability’s to fend off Rapacious Rulers.
        Thats one of the major reason why slavery existed on mass in the past, Ignorance of this fact is nothing more nor less than a death sentance.

        There is ample information from just the late 20th century alone on the topic rapacious behavior from governments who imposed ~ gun controls or denial of ownership existed by way of governments / corporations who RULE over the people.

        But ~ that is only if one really cares to explore the truths ~ rather that lend a mindless opinion with a net value of ZERO.

        Peace and Love Shalom

      • momo

        Time, you hit the nail on the head!

      • Flashy

        Time: I am a 2nd Amendment supporter. Still am. but yesterday’s debate, and today’s as well…has convinced me. Without doubt. It is time to stop the insanity and start regulating what can be sold in this country and place conditions on carrying a firearm in public.

        You guys want to play with guns..and decry being unable to “protect yourself” without placing me in danger? Fine…then have at it with handguns and hunting rifles. Then you’ll still have what the bad guys have. The right to bear arms will not be infringed…just what arms you’ll be able to place people in danger with. And our Right to walk the streets and go in public places in safety will be enhanced and dangers lessened.

        I had thought, really thought, that responsible gun owners would relish having a say in keeping maniacs from easy access to killing weaponry. As of yesterday’s posts and today’s…i no longer hold that thought. just the opposite.

        We’ll do it without you and you’ll live with what is decided.

        Time to stop the insanity.

      • TML

        Flashy says, “The calls from the gun wacko’s is for guns in schools, guns in malls, guns in movie theatres. ARE YOU ALL NUTS ??????”

        Do you deny that one of those six adult could have saved the lives of innocent children if one of them would have been armed?

        Do you deny that there have already been guns in schools, in malls, and in movie theaters despite laws restricting them there?

        Flashy says, “We have a Right to walk in safety. Your frippin’ “Right” for you and the deranged to walk around packin’ armor intrudes upon that.”

        Again, my right to carry a defensive weapon doesn’t intrude upon your right to ‘walk in safety’. The government isn’t meant to be your nanny, Flashy. We can’t cover ever sharp corner with cushion pads so that you can have your right to feel safer as you walk.

        Flashy says, “Scalia himself stated the 2nd may be “burdened’ in time, place, and manner. And types of guns may be limited and /or banned.”

        Fortunately, his word is not the law of the land. If there is anything to say about gun regulation, it is on the local levels, not national.

      • TML

        Flashy says, “It is time to stop the insanity and start regulating what can be sold in this country and place conditions on carrying a firearm in public… …Fine…then have at it with handguns and hunting rifles. Then you’ll still have what the bad guys have. The right to bear arms will not be infringed…just what arms you’ll be able to place people in danger with. And our Right to walk the streets and go in public places in safety will be enhanced and dangers lessened. “

        Yesterday you claimed to understand the most important reason behind the 2nd Amendment, and immediately afterward called for a ban on the so-called assault rifles. Would you care to address this apparent contradiction in terms?

        Flashy says, “I had thought, really thought, that responsible gun owners would relish having a say in keeping maniacs from easy access to killing weaponry. As of yesterday’s posts and today’s…i no longer hold that thought. just the opposite.”

        We have been answering. You just aren’t listening.
        Keeping maniacs from easy access to firearms comes with the personal responsibility of owning one, not from government totalitarianism, police and nanny state regulations which are ineffective and do not even address the true issues to the problem.

      • Flashy

        “Do you deny that one of those six adult could have saved the lives of innocent children if one of them would have been armed? [ well..perhaps he should have tried as his first victim someone who had guns in the home, pistols and assault rifle, and that person knew how to use them. that would have solved everything eh? oh wait...that was how he armed himself. Your solution is have every school now have guns in them and teachers trained to use them? Seriously? And when someone walks in with a simple pistol...or a different weapon, walks into the Principals office...he now has a nice, modern, loaded weapon to grab and turn on everyone. Yeah...really good idea. Nut cases...sanity is not in your mindset.

        Do you deny that there have already been guns in schools, in malls, and in movie theaters despite laws restricting them there? [ And if, before they entered these areas, they weren't able to obtain multiple round fast firing weapons? Do you deny if they couldn't have obtained these weapons the shootings would not have occurred?]

        Flashy says, “We have a Right to walk in safety. Your frippin’ “Right” for you and the deranged to walk around packin’ armor intrudes upon that.”

        Again, my right to carry a defensive weapon doesn’t intrude upon your right to ‘walk in safety’. The government isn’t meant to be your nanny, Flashy. We can’t cover ever sharp corner with cushion pads so that you can have your right to feel safer as you walk. [ Your "right" to pack a weapon in public is endangering me. Absolutely. Road rage is already a "take your life in your hands' incident as guns are not unusual to be used either as intimidation or in force. you are correct, the government cannot be my nanny...so why are you demanding it be yours allowing you to endanger me? ]

        Flashy says, “Scalia himself stated the 2nd may be “burdened’ in time, place, and manner. And types of guns may be limited and /or banned.”

        Fortunately, his word is not the law of the land. If there is anything to say about gun regulation, it is on the local levels, not national.” [BS. Any effort to control time, place, manner and what can be sold and under what conditions is a federal matter. Otherwise one state will be the conduit feeding it's neighboring, more saner, states. ]

      • momo

        Flashy says: ” Fine…then have at it with handguns and hunting rifles. Then you’ll still have what the bad guys have.”

        News flash, flashman, the bad guys have more than handguns and hunting rifles!

      • Flashy

        “Yesterday you claimed to understand the most important reason behind the 2nd Amendment, and immediately afterward called for a ban on the so-called assault rifles. Would you care to address this apparent contradiction in terms? ” <— TML

        Absolutely. up through yesterday, i had thought there may be some reason within the gun "brotherhood' that regulating weapons of mass murder was possible. That the realization having more firearms, and deadlier firearms available to everyone everywhere has led to mass killings in a mall, a college campus, a movie theatre, a religious center, an elementary school. To the point where they are now killing babies.

        Even the simplest concepts..such as requiring anyone wanting a concealed weapons permit take classroom instruction, situational awareness classes, and live fire practice to show proficiency … and requiring any assault weapon to be broken down to singular parts until assembled for target practice (don't even try to snow me with they are used for hunting…) … even those were greeted by screaming about being an infringement.

        I am now convinced that the strident gun owner is incapable of thinking through the ramifications of having an armed society. Y'all have convinced me that you have no interest in joining in any debate how to keep the bad guys away from weapons of mass murder and steps to ensure the general public may walk in public in safety.

        Keep the existing assault rifle. Demand it be disassembled except when used for target practice. Ban any further manufacture or sale of them. Ban the manufacture and sale of all but the most basic of handguns. Minimal clip magazines.

        When they get to be more scarce, and thus more valuable…then they'll be taken care of and less available to bad guys…who either can not afford them then or cannot easily obtain one.

        As for the reason for the 2nd. It still exists. I regret not being able to trust the gun owners to protect it. but yesterday and today has convinced me…don't count on gun owners to protect the 2nd …

      • Robert Smith

        To all who want to control guns:

        WHAT LAW WOULD HAVE STOPPED ANY OF THE CURRENT TRAGEDIES?

        Many laws were violated during the commission of these horrible acts. So, the ones we have don’t work. Is there anything you can think of that would have stopped it?

        If “assault weapons” are banned the kid had a shotgun in the car.

        If all guns are banned I invite you to promote that sentiment until such a law is passed by putting a sign in front of your house, “NO GUNS HERE.”

        BTW, I don’t know anyone who owns a bazooka or nuclear device so I suspect they don’t need to be regulated in reference to street use. ALL of the explosions in movies from such “weapons” are special effects. I know how they do them and I find watching the assorted varieties of what goes on in the entertaining. I in no way equate it with reality than I do WWF wrestling. Such things aren’t anymore “inspirational” for normal people than TV religion is.

        We need mental health care to even approach the problems with school shootings. And the right would rather screech about cars than admit that we as a society are broken when it comes to caring about others.

        Rob

      • victoryintruth

        Flashy, instead of flapping your lips about nonsense, how about actually researching the places that respect people’s Second Amendment RIGHTS? An armed society is, indeed, a polite society. You take away people’s ability to defend themselves and those who never had any respect for any law will step right in and take everything they want. It doesn’t matter how many bogus laws are written–those who can ALWAYS get any guns as they always have will do so. Respecting people’s rights to defend themselves merely levels the playing field. You are full of it.

      • Kate8

        Gun control insures criminals a safe workplace.

        Banning guns cannot possibly make us safer unless everyone (criminals…but also law enforcement, the military, and all agents of government) give theirs up, too.

        This isn’t going to happen, because the real aim of government is to make us all sitting ducks. They are all armed, and they think there are too many of us.

        If they try to pass this gun ban, they are effectively declaring all out war on us. The only way they will get all of the guns is to start killing us with overwhelming force, and they know this. I do believe that they are willing to go to these lengths to get what they want.

        They’ve spent over a century creating a nation of lawless, immoral, greedy and wholly corrupt people. They’ve taken our culture and destroyed it, making us nothing but a patchwork of cultures so divergent that we cannot stand together. They’ve divided us into social groups, victim groups, ideological groups…and we are all fools for allowing it.

        They’ve gone to every possible length to make sure that we are angry, stupid and divided. And when everyone learns what they’ve been doing to our children, destroying them to their own ends…, well, then we’ll all know how much they care. Just look at recent events. They are willing to gun our babies down in order to accomplish their fiendish plots.

        Oh yeah. It’s all “for the children”.

        It’s right before you, people. You just don’t have the guts to look at it.

        The worst part is, we have many of our own people who support them in doing this, not seeing what lies on the other side of disarming our last hope for standing. Recent history (the past century) gives stark testimony to how and why this is done, and what happens once accomplished. Yet, there are none so blind as those who will not see.

        The culture of death is, by its very nature, suicidal.

      • TML

        Flashy says, “well..perhaps he should have tried as his first victim someone who had guns in the home, pistols and assault rifle, and that person knew how to use them. that would have solved everything eh? oh wait…that was how he armed himself.”

        That someone was his own mother, and very unlikely she would have shot her own son. What he did however, was choose a place in which he knew everyone was unarmed.

        Flashy says, “Your solution is have every school now have guns in them and teachers trained to use them? Seriously?”

        If the teacher or staff so choose, yes… seriously.

        Flashy says, “And when someone walks in with a simple pistol…or a different weapon, walks into the Principals office…he now has a nice, modern, loaded weapon to grab and turn on everyone.”

        You’re assuming the principle or staff doesn’t use it to stop him first or that he would even know there is a gun there, or that he would even choose that place knowing there are people who could resist.
        Sanity is not in your mindset, Flashy… it’s fear.
        Insanity is doing the same thing over and over expecting different results. Prohibition doesn’t work.

        Flashy says, “And if, before they entered these areas, they weren’t able to obtain multiple round fast firing weapons? Do you deny if they couldn’t have obtained these weapons the shootings would not have occurred?”

        Yes; it could be a single shot pistol [reload time is one second], or crossbow, even just a knife [man in Beijing stabbed 28 children in a school], and the crime may still have occurred. The only reasonable option to deter these kinds of crimes is to allow those honest law-abiding citizens the means to defend themselves. The government can’t do it for you. Ask any police officer, he will tell you.

        Flashy says, “Your “right” to pack a weapon in public is endangering me. Absolutely. Road rage is already a “take your life in your hands’ incident as guns are not unusual to be used either as intimidation or in force. you are correct, the government cannot be my nanny…so why are you demanding it be yours allowing you to endanger me? “

        No, my right to defend myself is not endangering you, Flashy. I’m not demanding that it be my nanny, I’m demanding it leave my natural right to defend myself alone. “Why are you demanding it be yours allowing you to endanger me?” – doesn’t even make sense. Speaking of road rage, I suppose you then believe that cars should be banned if someone runs you off the road? After all, Flashy, the car is what endangers you and takes away your right to drive safely. Honestly, I thought you were more intelligent than that.

        Flashy says, “BS. Any effort to control time, place, manner and what can be sold and under what conditions is a federal matter. Otherwise one state will be the conduit feeding its neighboring, more saner, states.”

        The 2nd Amendment is specifically to refrain the federal government from infringing upon those natural rights. There is no time, place, or circumstance that can apply equally across the vast expanse of this nation. Regulation is a State matter which depends upon the localized solution to a localized problem. However, it seems to me that you are ambiguously in agreement that criminals do not follow laws, else you would spout how illegal it would be to carry a type of firearm into another state which has regulated against it.

      • TML

        Flashy says, “Even the simplest concepts..such as requiring anyone wanting a concealed weapons permit take classroom instruction, situational awareness classes, and live fire practice to show proficiency … and requiring any assault weapon to be broken down to singular parts until assembled for target practice (don’t even try to snow me with they are used for hunting…) … even those were greeted by screaming about being an infringement.”

        Actually, I agree with you about requiring classroom instruction, and other training, as part of carrying a firearm in public. And while many of those things are already in place, I do think they could be better. As far as requiring an assault weapon to be disassembled, it seems this would be impossible to regulate – How would such a law be enforced? Mandatory home inspection warrants? Nay, impossible. Additionally, it doesn’t take long to assemble a weapon, and the only deterrent would be if someone broke into your home and didn’t know how to put it together. Just seems like an ineffective, unenforceable regulation.

        Flashy says, “Keep the existing assault rifle. Demand it be disassembled except when used for target practice. Ban any further manufacture or sale of them. Ban the manufacture and sale of all but the most basic of handguns. Minimal clip magazines.”

        Even if we accept the idea of laws that require an “assault” weapon to be disassembled unless intended for use at a shooting range [which I believe is completely ineffective and unenforceable] I disagree with banning the manufacture of the weapons. These weapons have their uses not only against what you agree to be the most important reason to retain them, but also they are the best defense against mobs as we saw during the L.A. riots.

        Honestly, most crimes are already committed with the most basic and cheap hand guns, and it doesn’t matter if the clip only held 1 bullet, a reload takes only one second which is not enough time for anyone to do anything about it. You can have one bullet, or a hundred bullets… it doesn’t matter.

        Flashy says, “I regret not being able to trust the gun owners to protect it. but yesterday and today has convinced me…”

        Just because someone doesn’t agree with you, doesn’t mean they are insane or unwilling to debate the issues. It just means they disagree. As you try to change one person’s view, they are trying to change yours.

      • TIME

        Dear People,

        A few update’s on the current event from 12/14/12 as per { wittnes who are locals who have children in the noted school.}

        As I noted on 12/18/12 { all schools have live video feed,} and cameras all over the schools halls and class rooms ~ for serveillance as this school also had “very young children” attending class’s they have whats known as the “LOCKED DOOR POLICY”

        What that means in un fetterd terms is; That the entrance and exits are all LOCKED when children are within.

        Now with that in mind when a person comes to the door they have to ring to enter but the protool~ is as follows ~ the person is displayed on a “”closed circut monitor in the office”” ~ the unit used at this school is the “top of the line” as the vast amount of children attending this school are “New York Executives from Wall Street and High level Bankers etc..”
        You who think we need more gun controls must remember ~ as these are the folks you love to hate, or as you call them the 1% ers.
        Of what I agree with you that they are nasty people.

        Be all that it may, > the FACTS are, that anyone not known or dressed in an odd way would not have been allowed in, let alone holding guns in their hands or wearing a ski mask.
        As I noted on 12/18/12 this young man was wearing a “Military Grade Bullet proof vest,” for anyone who has no idea just how odd these look on a person – You should look them up on line, there are quite odd looking to say the least, let alone a person wearing a SKI MASK, and carring guns.

        Now, I ask any “sane” person on this blog sight, { not the Corporate shills } like many here are who are pushing agendas of stripping the last two vestiges of FREEDOM we have left away, { Would you have let a person in based on just these Provable facts.}

        Again as I said this reaks of a PSYOP. Again, not unlike the Bat Man dude.

        I am getting a list of all the known events like such and what “PSYCHOTROPIC DRUGS” were involved with noted shootings, It is my opinion that we should outlaw such Drugs, NOT guns.
        We should also explore the laws set in place by the criminal political class that compel children to be on said drugs.
        As well we should be looking into the “PHARMACEUTICAL” companys that push these said drugs on our Children ~ of what is a CRIME in and of its self.

        This fine mess again brought to you by the CRIMINALS from the City State of the District of Columbia.

        PEACE and LOVE , Merry Christmas Shalom

      • Charlie Tall

        Flashy, you idiot, your murder rate figure is for the AMERICAS, not the United States.

        The murder rate in the US is only 4.2 per 100,000 population. Mexico is 16.9; Venezuela is 45.1, Honduras is 91.6. Nowhere in Central America does the murder rate go under 13.6.

        Flashy, if you are basing your gun control justification on these numbers, you’re way, way off base.

      • TML

        Bob Livingston says, “Instructing them to obtain a permit and undergo training is a fool’s errand. Requiring registration and background checks before they can purchase is silly and inconsequential. … …. It is as yet unclear if he received any formal training in handling the weapons. … … There is no evidence that requiring him to undergo mandatory classroom instruction, live and situational awareness training would have prevented his murderous (likely prescription drug-fueled) rampage.”

        I was under the impression Flashy was promoting mandatory classroom instruction, live and situational awareness training, etc. to those who wish to carry a firearm in public for self-defense… to which I agree with… rather than implying that the boy should have training in order to prevent the incident.

        I think that if someone is going to take the responsibility to carry in public that a training course would be essential. These things are already in place, such as in Texas the requirement is a 12 hour training course, but I think this could, and should, be much better and more in depth. Without good training, carrying a firearm in public can get you into more trouble than it could ever get you out of.

        These kind of requirements do not in any way infringe upon the right to bare arms, but rather, encourages it through proper training.

        • http://www.boblivingstonletter.com/ Bob Livingston

          Dear TML,

          You write: “I was under the impression Flashy was promoting mandatory classroom instruction, live and situational awareness training, etc. to those who wish to carry a firearm in public for self-defense… to which I agree with… rather than implying that the boy should have training in order to prevent the incident.” My question to Flashy was specific, as outlined above. This was part of his answer. Requiring instruction and training will have no effect on those who make a choice to do harm upon innocents. It might serve to prevent accidents and would serve to help firearm proficiency.

          You write: “These kind of requirements do not in any way infringe upon the right to bare (sic) arms, but rather, encourages it through proper training.” I disagree.

          Best wishes,
          Bob

      • Jeremy Leochner

        Only those calling for banning guns are violating the second amendment. I am a liberal and do not support gun bans. You need not repeat the amendment around me nor do you automatically have too around liberals.

      • Vicki

        Flashy says a lot and it would take a book to counter all of his errors of logic
        Here is that book. http://www.amazon.com/More-Guns-Less-Crime-Understanding/dp/0226493660:

        Now to some details to show that flashy does not have a clue (unlikely) or is deliberately lying for political purpose.

        Flashy: “Gun control is coming. it’s about time. It is time to stop the insanity that has weakened this nation and been a festering boil on its body.”

        Gun control meaning laws infringing on the RIGHT of THE PEOPLE to keep and bear arms have been with us since at least 1934 (actually much earlier but 1934 is a good reference). Therefor your claim that it is coming is false. We have pointed this out to you more than once, with proofs. That you continue to ignore it proves to us that you are willfully ignorant or a paid agent.

        Flashy: “The calls from the gun wacko’s is for guns in schools, guns in malls, guns in movie theatres. ARE YOU ALL NUTS ??????”

        Amusing ad hominem attack telling us more about flashy’s writing skill then us. The “gun wackos” are the ones who claim that we would be safer waiting for the police to respond in minutes to a teacher’s call for help which needs response in seconds. The most recent shooting on Friday a case in point.

        Flashy: “We have a Right to walk in safety. Your frippin’ “Right” for you and the deranged to walk around packin’ armor intrudes upon that.”

        Arguement to ridicule (frippin)
        Arguement “guilt by association” (you and the deranged)

        Our right to walk around packing armor (and/or guns) does not interfere in the least with your right to walk in safety. In fact it IMPROVES your safety. The deranged in your straw man are much less likely to attack you when they know that people around you can actually DEFEND you effectively. And IF they do we CAN defend you effectively. Unlike the poor adults in that school on Friday. This has been pointed out to you with proofs (see book at top of this post). That you refuse to listen indicates willful ignorance. Or that you are paid to post here.

        Flashy: “Scalia himself stated the 2nd may be “burdened’ in time, place, and manner. And types of guns may be limited and /or banned.”

        By private property owners. NOT by government and NOT in public places.

      • eric

        @ Flashy, to belabor the obvious to everyone here but you, Sieg Heil.

        You and Hitler and Mussolini all have the same solution.

      • http://www.facebook.com/WizardKiller Mark Are Reynolds

        Let me explain something about “Flashy”. You see, Flashy is a coward. He thinks that his life is worth more than a policeman. He thinks his life is worth more than a soldier. He is too cowardly to think that he can defend himself from attack, but he has no problem believing in his sad mind that it is ok to get a police man to protect him even though the Supreme Court of clowns has stated that the police are not their to protect you. Flashy won’t take the responsibility for defending himself because he believes his life is so much more valuable than someone who is paid to enforce laws. And the sad state of affairs is that many people have this convoluted idea about defense. Flashy, if I’m ever near you when you are attacked, if I know it is you, I will stand back and watch your demise by the criminal who does so. And say, how sad, Flashy wasn’t brave enough to carry a firearm to defend himself so now he gets to go in a box.

      • eddie47d

        Mark in the dark: Where did Flashy say he wouldn’t defend himself? You assume too much and are the coward for making things up. You have a warped sense of bravery at least from your comment.

      • ranger09

        BOB, If i remember right the Time was around 1927-1928 A Bomb was used. 50 something was killed, and a lot wounded.

      • TML

        Bob says,”You write: “These kind of requirements do not in any way infringe upon the right to bare (sic) arms, but rather, encourages it through proper training.” I disagree.”

        How so… ? Don’t keep it to yourself.
        I fail to see how firearm training, as a requirement to carry a gun in public, is an infringement upon the 2nd Amendment. It’s not a pass/fail system in which you could be denied the right based on failing the class. It’s not a privilege like driving a car that it could be denied by subjective failure in some obscure grading system. In Texas, anyone who is not convicted of a violent crime, or certified as mentally ill by a licensed doctor, can get a permit after taking the training course to which there is no failing grade in which the permit is rejected. It only ensures that you are familiar with the State and federal laws concerning the carry of a weapon, and that you have at least shot it before. I see no infringment on your right to carry under these circumstances.

        • http://www.boblivingstonletter.com/ Bob Livingston

          Dear TML,

          You write:”I fail to see how firearm training, as a requirement to carry a gun in public, is an infringement upon the 2nd Amendment.” Training in the use of weapons is good. More training is better. But any “requirement” to bear a weapon is an infringement. Even the act of requiring a concealed carry permit is an infringement. Such a law does nothing to deter the criminal use of weapons. A check would reveal that most criminals do not bother with the niceties of obtaining their guns through legal methods or registering themselves with local or state law enforcement. A previous conviction on as much as a small drug charge would render them ineligible from receiving permission from the state to carry a weapon in their defense. Therefore, requiring the purchase of a concealed carry permit is nothing more than another money grab by the state and a way of collecting dossiers on legal gun owners to be used at some future time. http://mises.org/daily/6321/Tyranny-and-the-Monopoly-of-Arms

          Best wishes,
          Bob

      • BLESSINGS MINISTRIES

        Since when has Obama cared about the constitution, which he swore to protect. He has personally said he wants a new constitution. Of course, he is using this terrible tragedy to push his agenda, to have law abiding citizens unable to defend themselves. It is only these citizens who wont have guns. Criminals always have the ability to obtain guns. Also, Chicago and New York have the strictest gun laws and they have the highest crime. People need to recognize Obama and liberals are playing on our emotions. To me that is the cruelest of hoax, but that is not beyond Obama and his cronies to do such a thing. How sad that this man, who is not even a United States citizen was re-elected. Why is this issue of his ineligibility not being addressed by congress. When theres an elephant in the room, it cannot be ignored without considerable damage,which is being done right out in open like he is daring someone to go against him. He has his avowed, self=professed communists,socialists czars, which is in itself unconstitutional. Because of no one in congress coming against all his agenda to destroy this nation, we as citizens (not illegal aliens) who love this country will see it slowly being made into a communist, socialist nation right before our eyes, as our freedoms are being eroded without apology. What is it going to take before its all gone. We are no longer allowed to say GOD BLESS AMERICA as they are also doing everything in their power to destroy our godly heritage too. That pretty much takes care of everything. In spite of their decisions, I will always say MERRY CHRISTMAS and pray for GOD BLESS AMERICA.

      • TML

        Bob Livingston says, “Training in the use of weapons is good. More training is better. But any “requirement” to bear a weapon is an infringement. Even the act of requiring a concealed carry permit is an infringement. Such a law does nothing to deter the criminal use of weapons. A
        bother to obtain their guns through legal methods, and for that reason I do not believe a permit to serve as a deterrent to criminals in that regard, as much as it is a service to those who carry. I’ve met people who carry check would reveal that most criminals do not bother with the niceties of obtaining their guns through legal methods or registering themselves with local or state law enforcement. A previous conviction on as much as a small drug charge would render them ineligible from receiving permission from the state to carry a weapon in their defense. Therefore, requiring the purchase of a concealed carry permit is nothing more than another money grab by the state and a way of collecting dossiers on legal gun owners to be used at some future time.http://mises.org/daily/6321/Tyranny-and-the-Monopoly-of-Arms”

        This may prove to be an interesting exchange….

        I do not agree with any current state laws or requirements that would deny them the right to carry in public because of any victimless crime. That is an infringement. I have to ask however, do you think that a person who does have a record of true violent crime, or anyone who has a record of true metal illness, should be allowed to carry a firearm lawfully in public? I am in agreement that anyone has the unfettered right to own a firearm in their own home. But there must be some reasonable position in regard to carrying outside the home, particularly in urban areas. While we use variations of the analogous argument between cars and guns, we should also remember that people are licensed to drive. Even in the ‘old west’ there were towns, cities, etc. that required turning their guns in as they came into town, and you pick them up on the way out, in order to deal with localized problems. Should there be no concern whatsoever regarding public safety? I am in agreement that most criminals do not in public and have never even fired their weapon before and not the first clue of the legalities which could land them in jail, be a threat to others, or even to themselves. The cost of a permit is nothing… I spend more to go to the shooting range… and the training and information provided is equal to the cost of the permit. It doesn’t infringe the right because virtually no one is denied these permits. And frankly, it makes a huge difference in the manner in which a cop reacts to you when you present the permit at, for example, a traffic stop. I speak from real experience when I say that a permit does not infringe upon your right to carry a firearm in public in any unreasonable way. I’ve been stopped in a rural hometown without a permit and the police, knowing me, make no issue. I’ve been stopped in urban areas with my permit and the police, not knowing me, make no issue.

        This idea of “dossiers” is nothing… they do not collect information about the firearms you have in your home, nor even about what you might carry. You don’t even have to own a gun to get a permit. I find it as a misguided, slightly paranoid, fear to be documented in any way by the government. After all, those founders which gave use this government willingly printed their names, under pain of death, on the Declaration of Independence. And while I will not give up information foolishly, I proudly give my name on anything I stand for.

        I honestly invite anyone to pick the argument apart. I’m interested.

      • Karolyn

        Blessings – NYC’s crime rate is way down from what it used to be years ago.

      • TML

        Crap, disregard the last… I gotta learn to proof read, lol (how bout an edit button, yo? What happened to that new format? heh)

        Bob Livingston says, “Training in the use of weapons is good. More training is better. But any “requirement” to bear a weapon is an infringement. Even the act of requiring a concealed carry permit is an infringement. Such a law does nothing to deter the criminal use of weapons. A
        bother to obtain their guns through legal methods, and for that reason I do not believe a permit to serve as a deterrent to criminals in that regard, as much as it is a service to those who carry. I’ve met people who carry check would reveal that most criminals do not bother with the niceties of obtaining their guns through legal methods or registering themselves with local or state law enforcement. A previous conviction on as much as a small drug charge would render them ineligible from receiving permission from the state to carry a weapon in their defense. Therefore, requiring the purchase of a concealed carry permit is nothing more than another money grab by the state and a way of collecting dossiers on legal gun owners to be used at some future time.http://mises.org/daily/6321/Tyranny-and-the-Monopoly-of-Arms”

        This may prove to be an interesting exchange….

        I do not agree with any current state laws or requirements that would deny them the right to carry in public because of any victimless crime. That is an infringement. I have to ask however, do you think that a person who does have a record of true violent crime, or anyone who has a record of true metal illness, should be allowed to carry a firearm lawfully in public? I am in agreement that anyone has the unfettered right to own a firearm in their own home. But there must be some reasonable position in regard to carrying outside the home, particularly in urban areas. While we use variations of the analogous argument between cars and guns, we should also remember that people are licensed to drive. Even in the ‘old west’ there were towns, cities, etc. that required turning their guns in as they came into town, and you pick them up on the way out, in order to deal with localized problems. Should there be no concern whatsoever regarding public safety? *I am in agreement that most criminals do not bother with the niceties of obtaining their guns through legal methods or registering themselves with local or state law enforcement, but I believe permit to be more of a service than a deterrent for criminals. I have met people whom* have never even fired their weapon before and not the first clue of the legalities which could land them in jail, be a threat to others, or even to themselves. The cost of a permit is nothing… I spend more to go to the shooting range… and the training and information provided is equal to the cost of the permit. It doesn’t infringe the right because virtually no one is denied these permits. And frankly, it makes a huge difference in the manner in which a cop reacts to you when you present the permit at, for example, a traffic stop. I speak from real experience when I say that a permit does not infringe upon your right to carry a firearm in public in any unreasonable way. I’ve been stopped in a rural hometown without a permit and the police, knowing me, make no issue. I’ve been stopped in urban areas with my permit and the police, not knowing me, make no issue.

        This idea of “dossiers” is nothing… they do not collect information about the firearms you have in your home, nor even about what you might carry. You don’t even have to own a gun to get a permit. I find it as a misguided, slightly paranoid, fear to be documented in any way by the government. After all, those founders which gave use this government willingly printed their names, under pain of death, on the Declaration of Independence. And while I will not give up information foolishly, I proudly give my name on anything I stand for.

        • http://www.boblivingstonletter.com/ Bob Livingston

          Dear TML,

          You write: “I have to ask however, do you think that a person who does have a record of true violent crime, or anyone who has a record of true metal illness, should be allowed to carry a firearm lawfully in public?” Under current law, felons are not allowed to lawfully possess a weapon. I believe the law is overbroad because, as you say, people who have committed victimless crimes fall under that umbrella. Those convicted of violent crimes should lose their right to legally possess a weapon. Regarding the mentally ill, there is a sticky wicket. Some of our returning soldiers are being diagnosed with mental illness for reasons that seem fabricated. “Mental illness” needs a more narrow definition when it relates to gun possession.

          You write: “But there must be some reasonable position in regard to carrying outside the home, particularly in urban areas.” Why must there be? Because it makes you feel good? Or is there some logic to your position?

          You write: “While we use variations of the analogous argument between cars and guns, we should also remember that people are licensed to drive.” Driving laws and the right to bear arms are not analogous. As driving is not mentioned in the Constitution, its regulation falls to the States.

          You write: “Should there be no concern whatsoever regarding public safety?” There are already both state and federal laws designed to prevent (punish) those who harm others. If a criminal chooses to disobey those, additional laws regarding carrying or concealing weapons will not deter him. I’m not sure what else you mean.

          You write: “The cost of a permit is nothing…” In some states the cost of obtaining a permit is quite high.

          You write: “It doesn’t infringe the right because virtually no one is denied these permits.” This is not true in many states, which are quite restrictive.

          You write: ” they do not collect information about the firearms you have in your home, nor even about what you might carry.” This is not true.

          You write: “I find it as a misguided, slightly paranoid, fear to be documented in any way by the government.” I find it ignorant and foolhardy to not fear government documentation.

          Best wishes,
          Bob

      • Vicki

        TML says:
        “I fail to see how firearm training, as a requirement to carry a gun in public, is an infringement upon the 2nd Amendment. ”

        How do you feel about training voters before you allow them to vote? How do you feel about training writers in proper debate style before you allow them to publish?

        Some will say that a firearm can do more damage than a pen or a vote. History shows us that the pen and the vote can and have caused far more extensive real damage then firearms alone ever could.

        We need pen and vote control. It’s time to stop the insanity.

      • Bob666

        I believe that you left out part of the 2nd amendment. Perhaps you should go back and read it a few times.

      • JC

        Flashy says:
        December 19, 2012 at 8:54 am
        Time: I am a 2nd Amendment supporter.
        _______________________________________________________
        You’re liar and a mouthpiece, nothing more.

      • TML

        Bob Livingston says, “Under current law, felons are not allowed to lawfully possess a weapon. I believe the law is overbroad because, as you say, people who have committed victimless crimes fall under that umbrella. Those convicted of violent crimes should lose their right to legally possess a weapon. Regarding the mentally ill, there is a sticky wicket. Some of our returning soldiers are being diagnosed with mental illness for reasons that seem fabricated. “Mental illness” needs a more narrow definition when it relates to gun possession.”

        Agreed

        Bob Livingston says, “Why must there be? Because it makes you feel good? Or is there some logic to your position?”

        As I mentioned, there are people whom have never even fired their weapon before and not the first clue of the legalities which could land them in jail, be a threat to others, or even to themselves. In the interest of public safety, both to others and to the people who arm themselves, logic dictates that mandatory training is necessary.

        Bob Livingston says, “Driving laws and the right to bear arms are not analogous. As driving is not mentioned in the Constitution, its regulation falls to the States.”

        It was said in contrast to arguments which relate banning cars as impractical as banning weapons.

        Bob Livingston says, “There are already both state and federal laws designed to prevent (punish) those who harm others. If a criminal chooses to disobey those, additional laws regarding carrying or concealing weapons will not deter him. I’m not sure what else you mean.”

        What else I mean is that the honest law-abiding citizen not privy to those laws and trained to carry their arms responsibly in public could inadvertently become the criminal.

        Bob Livingston says, “In some states the cost of obtaining a permit is quite high.”

        I can’t really speak for other states.

        Bob Livingston says, “This is not true in many states, which are quite restrictive.”

        Again, I can only speak for my own state, and I am aware that many states do have restriction on permit which I would agree becomes an infringement. With those exception considered, I do not think the act of issuing a permit itself is an infringement.

        Bob Livingston says, “This is not true.”

        It is true for Texas… they have no information about the type of gun I carry, nor did they ask what kind of guns I have in my home, and you do not have to own a gun to get a permit.

        Bob Livingston says, “I find it ignorant and foolhardy to not fear government documentation.”

        That depends on the documentation. You have a drivers license; do you fear this documentation? Besides, I’m pretty sure the founders who signed the Declaration were pretty fearful to a reasonable extent when they did so. By all measures, they were commiting treason.

      • texastwin827

        Flashy, you do realize that the list you provided is by Continent, not country, right? “Americas” (plural form) means ALL countries in North & South America!

      • Elda

        The worst attack on a school was done by dynamite. The point is if someone wished to do harm as we daily read from around the world it is not usually hand guns or rifles. It is bombs. I am all for citizens rights to have guns long and short in their homes. But there are weapons being made that are simply designed for mass killing and I do think they should stay in the hands of the military. In the hands of criminals it is very bad. Other wise I think the issue that needs to be discussed is mental illness and addressing the need for public education and help in a rational realistic way…..not the feel good and cover up the unpleasentness of it that the left had done.

      • Jim

        Flashy, you talk alfull big for a little liberal turd sitting behind you keyboard. This entire gun ban nonsense in a load of crap and you know it. The people with blood on their hands are the liberal left. All of your gun ban and “gun free zone” nonsense is a total load of BS. The only thing people like you accomplish is to put people at risk because the nutjobs you love know well the in one of those “gun free zones” they will find targets who can not fight back. I will not be giving up my ability to defend myself, my gamily, and my community any time soon.

        • Nick Czudy

          Jim. This lefty learns quickly. One has to cuss and call people names to show your toughness and how good of a gun toting fanatic you are. This leftie learns quickly. I can stoop to your level in the outhouse. I am so happy that you will be able to defend your “gamily” just don’t blow away the UPS delivery man, like the granny did last year, when her knocked on her door with a package. He might actually be bringing you another gun or some ammo. You are all so pathetic. I have one recomendation for all of you all.. “Phychiatrist. and long therapy.”

          • Frank Kahn

            Nick says: “Jim. This lefty learns quickly.”

            Okay, Nick, show us something you have LEARNED. I keep hearing the same inane monologue from you in every post. Does not sound like you are learning anything here.

          • Nick Czudy

            Well I will tell you a little bit what I have learned, I am watching the football game so I do not want to spend a long time with you guys.
            1) YOU usally chat with an air of superiority to your cause and beliefs.
            2) you like to demean any left thinking opponent by calling them some type of names, like an old school boy bully. It must come from holding a gun gives you an arogant air.
            3) You speak as if the world revolves around being a Patriot and being retro to the age that wealthy white men, ran the world and as long as you have a gun, you can be one of the boys. Even though that rich white guy is screwing you, so that you will never get as wealthy as they are.
            4) You all try and turn a ban on assault weapons to an all out ban on all guns. That is always one of your whiney points to cry about. You cannot accept that there can be only a ban on just assault weapons. You lie about banning these weapons in Australia and england, did you reduce violent crime. In fact it went down 57% in Australia.
            5) You seem to live in a parrallel universe, where things that are not true are accepted as gospel to you. And you all except it without question. this is called living under the bubble. You all believe your own lies and do not have to fact check anything. As long as you believe it, it is true.
            6) There seems to be this parnoia that the government is trying to take control and take away your freedom. No one has ever said what freedom has been taken away. You claim that the government has an evil plot to control the citizens. God sake. enough of the conspiracy theories. Now that the GOP are out of power, that is not true. It may have been, during the Bush years. Bit not in a democratic government. They are more open and down to earth.
            7) there is this constant moaning about if your are liberal, then you are a communist. You guys don’t have any clue, what communism is. My mom grew up under the rule of Stalin. They had to bury rotten potatoes to make soup, because Stalin wanted all of the food to trade with western countries for machinery. What you call communism as the current democratic party these days.would score about 15 out of 100 on a communist scale.. It is another of your favourite buzz words.
            8) Lieing and the truth, do not seem to be important to all of those living under the bubble. All that matters is that you believe it. This was rampant thorugh out Mitts campaign and most of the right wing pundits. These are like Hannity, Dick Morris, Carl Rove, etc.Your leaders know that generally you are all so dense that they can say anything and you will suck it up without any hesitation. Yet you have the odasity to claim that it is the Left that are the liers. What delusion? this is life under the bubble.
            9) Your favourite line is that the left are takers and just want gifts from the government. the fact is that the majority of the Right, GOP sates pay less into the system and it is the democratic states that pay more into the government for hand outs. so basicall the GOP are the moochers with their hands out for the government dole and then they will complain that the Dems are the ones that want the gifts. what a joke. They you belly ache that you want to succced from the union. Go ahead.
            10) I want to watch dallas get womped on the NFL game today so this should give you a small idea of what I have learned listening to you belly ache.
            Frank. You are so sarcastic as if you are God’s goft to a thinking Right Wing. Again , you might believe it, but the rest of the people on this blog with a brain, know better.

          • Frank Kahn

            Wrong again, on every point you made in this last post. I have never made any of the claims you attributed to me.

            Old white men is a racist slur coming from you.

            I dont think the democrats are communists, nor do I THINK that Russia / USSR were communists.

            I have never said that banning assault weapons means losing all our guns, just that it is unconstitutional.

            The Democrats lied at least as much as the Republicans did in the election campaign.

            I never said that the left are takers and right are givers.

            Most of the initial name calling comes from people like flashy, eddie47 and you.

            You have no idea what my financial status is, I just might be one of those RICH WHITE MEN.

            Most gun owners are not arrogant because they have guns, just confident that they can defend themselves when needed.

            I dont give a rats back side what effect banning assault weapons had on crime in Australia. It is not pertinent to the issue of our rights in this country.

            Failure to check the facts on things seems to be prevalent on both sides of the isle.

            You are living under a bubble, by your definition. I dont take what is said by either side at face value. A lie is a lie, no matter if it is Romney or Obama telling it.

            Your assertion about the rural (right wing) states taking more government money is false. If you factor in all the subsidies given to large corporations (in the blue states) you will see a major difference in the TAKING. And, obviously, it is large metropolitan areas (more people) that pay more into taxes, that is a no brainer. But, they dont pay in a larger per capita amount than we do.

            And finally, you twist another fact that is obvious to anyone with a brain. The Dallas Cowboys did not get womped (sic) in the game against New Orleans, it was a squeaker that was won in over time.

            OOPS, that was not finally, you mentioned people on this blog with a brain knowing better than me? Well, Nick, I can show you a whole series of posters that cut your ideas to ribbons when you were responding to me.

          • Nick Czudy

            Dear Frank. I think that you mistook my prose. I did not mean any of it to be directed at you. It was just generalizations of the whole right leaning populace on this blog. It was just that I replied to your lat comment. My apologies for the misunderstanding.
            Yes the Dallas game was a squeaker. They are not going to be a factor this season.
            But I wish you and everyone a Merry Christmas. I will continue my defense of my philosophies after Christmas. Someone has to stand up for sanity and rational policies. haha Merry Christmas to all. Nick Czudy

          • http://yahoo gator

            did i read that right?! YOU DON’T THINK THAT RUSSIA/USSR IS A COMMUNIST COUNTRY?!!!!! DO YOU THINK CHINA IS A COMMUNIST COUNTRY? THIS IS IN BIG BLOCK LETTERS BECAUSE I’M SURE THIS IS WHAT YOU USE IN SCHOOL.

          • Frank Kahn

            I got very confused by your posts, you reply to me with what looks like a reply to him and reply to him and obviously addressing me.

            I dont think your attempt at a scholastic slur was necessary, I am almost 60 years old and we had real teachers in real schools giving us a good education. I only use all caps when I am emphasizing a point.

            Now as to your question about Russia, USSR and China being communists. NO, neither one (I consider Russia and the USSR to be the same ideologically) were true communism. Russia was a socialistic dictatorship for the most part. Even when it was ruled by the Communist party it was totalitarian in nature. It basically went by the teachings of Marx which was socialism. They considered Socialism to be an intermediary step towards Communism but all factual indications show that they never progressed past the Socialism phase. They took control of all manufacturing and agricultural aspects as well as all the science and health care. It was stated like it was communism but in reality it was the ruling class that got everything and the workers were basically slaves to the state. As you tried to state in your later post CCCP translated to USSR is Union (not united) of Soviet Socialist Republics. The name says what they were, SOCIALISTS, not COMMUNISTS. The state owned everything, which is contrary to true Communism where everything is shared (owned) by everyone. Also in a true Communistic community, you would have representative leaders not self appointed rulers.

          • http://yahoo gator

            Frank, I’m sorry for the confusion, i was actually responding to the other post. Thanks for setting the record strait on the ussr.
            Either socialism, or communism, is not in the interests of the people. Sadly it seems alot of American citizens are ready and willing to embrace either one.

          • Bert Cundle Sr.

            Intrest of the public??? Socialism… News Papers / T.V & Radio,/ Telephone
            Communism: LOCAL ATHORITY (All EQUAL)

          • http://yahoo gator

            ACTUALLY THE USSR STANDS FOR – UNITED SOVIET SOCIALIST REPUBLIC. SOCIALIST being the defining word.

          • Bert Cundle Sr.

            SOCIALIST being the defining word.==========
            Communism & Socialism… Can Blend!

          • http://yahoo gator

            wel said Frank. have a beer on me.

      • Buster the Anatolian

        “(don’t even try to snow me with they are used for hunting”

        How about you ask the thousands upon thousands of deer and other game killed by your “assualt weapons” (which incidentaly a term made up by your fellow gun banners) how effective they are as a hunting rifle.

        • http://yahoo gator

          Buster, just what the hell are you talking about? can you talk to the animals? are you a vegan?, or are you from some other planet?

      • Buster the Anatolian

        gator are you deliberately and willfully ignorant or just lacking in even the tinest bit of comprehension. The point is these so called “assualt weapons” that flashy claims are not used for hunting are used to kill thousands of game animals especially deer each year.

        • http://yahoo gator

          I think you missed my point, maybe i worded it improperly. I AM A HUNTER, I hunt deer and hog (mostly hogs, they are tastier), and i hunt them with ‘high capacity rifles’, single shot rifles, as well as single shot shotguns and riot guns, black powder firearms, pistols, also hogs sometimes fall to the spear or knife, not something for everyone, hogs are an ‘adversarial’ animal and very dangerous.I also trap them and am in the process of building a ‘corral trap’ on my place.

          I eat what i hunt, i am not a ‘trophy hunter’. I have no trophy heads on my walls. As a matter of fact, we had two wild hogs at my wedding, my buddies kill, not mine. I also bowfish, which i haven’t done in some time, smoked carp, and smoked alligator gar are quite tasty. I won’t tell you where my favorite bowfishin river is, i will say its a LONG way from Texas.
          EVERYONE in my family is well-versed in firearm safety, and they start at an early age. We do not fear ‘crazy people’, or home invaders, or burglars, rioters, or DRUG CARTELS, or rabid skunks, or snakes. What we do fear is an all too powerful government, that every day is hell-bent on taking away every freedom we are endowed with from birth. Those freedom’s being LIFE, LIBERTY and the pursuit of HAPPINESS.
          The ‘murderous drug cartels’ that this administration has been pedaling guns to stay on their side of the river, in one of the most firearm restricted countries in the world. Why do they stay there, just across the river? Maybe because as General Yamamoto said, We cannot invade the UNITED STATES of AMERICA, because ther would be a RIFLE BEHIND EVERY BLADE OF GRASS.

          I find it extremely hard to beleive that the people of this country can look south across the border, where Mexican citizens are not allowed to possess firearms, and knowing the drug cartels MURDER those same unarmed citizens by the dozens every day, I am dumbfounded that the AMERICAN citizens think gun control works!
          Look inside our own country, DRUGS are ILLEGAL, and we have had a DRUG WAR for years, but I can go to almost any street corner and buy any drug i could want! Not that i want too but its possible.

          2ND AMENDMENT.
          A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a FREE State, the RIGHT OF THE PEOPLE TO KEEP AND BEAR ARMS SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED.

          Simple and to the point, is it not? My grandaughters understand it. Whats wrong with the others?

          Anyone who would stand against this 2nd Amendment, that basically protects the other Amendments, is either STUPID, or an ENEMY of the UNITED STATES of AMERICA.

          Does that explain where i stand?

          p.s. those same people in the WH and the CAPITOL, don’t seem to mind that there are 2,000 UNBORN BABIES KILLED IN THIS COUNTRY EVERY DAY!AND THEY HAVE MADE THAT LEGAL!

      • Jim

        FLASHY, you are correct, it is about sanity. However the INSANITY is coming from those who call for more gun control, gun confiscation as if that “solves the problem” The problem in fact IS insanity. Try this factoid. Virtually EVERY SCHOOL SHOOTER had been drugged up by the American Psychiatric Association practitioners…with PSYCHOTROPIC drugs. Look at the range of side effects…Out of control rages, suicidal depressions and the list goes on and on. I just spent Christmas weekend chasing after a sister in law who had been on psychotropics since her early teens THE CHAOS and RAGE were unmanageable and no one, not the police, or the detox centers or doctors who couldn’t be reached or hospitals did a darn thing but give her more drugs and turn her loose. Hundreds of miles and dollars later we finally managed to get her somewhat calmed down. Now imagine what the mother of the Sandy Hook Elementrary shooter was going through and all her calls for help. The problem is not about guns but about OUT OF CONTROL MEDICAL establishments and practitioners and those who slobber after their “legal drugs” like dogs in a Pavlov experiment as if that is the solution. IT SIMPLY ISN’T

        • http://yahoo gator

          Jim, flashy works for the un and her sucklings pelosi/obama/holder/clinton/muslim brotherhood/china and all the rest of the anti-USA organizations out there. they have one common goal, the destruction of the USA and everything for which it stands.

      • Rita

        I agree totally with you. The children seems to be the topic, however I do believe that the government is ready and willing to press a little harder on the gun owners of America.
        May God Bless the USA and dont forget to pray for the Peace of Isreal.

      • Ruby

        You are so right about lighter cars. My company furnised defensive driving lessons by Police. One said he would not drive anything but a half ton truck because of what he has seen in his line of work.

    • http://www.facebook.com/patrick.livingston.90 Patrick Livingston

      I was in the gun business for 38 years and operated under Clintons Assault ban, it banned the high capacity 30 round clips for Ar-15s and Ak-s and the 15 round clips for pistols for 10 years, it proved to have no affect whatsoever on crimes, a person could buy 5 -10 rd clips !!! Would also like to mention that crime has declined over the last 10 years without the Assault Ban !!!

      • carlee44

        FLASHY. I do not know how to fix the gun problem. I do have common sense though and from that I can swear that more gun control wont do it. There are too many variables.First we need a govt. that observes laws state and federal.Pepper spray against a high powered rifle? I think not.It doesnt shoot far enough. Tasers and stun guns you have to be very fast and closer than I ever want to be.Maybe armed teachers are not the answer but taking our guns away which leaves only criminals with guns is not right either.A task force headed by crazy joe isnt much consolation either.

      • hipshotpercusion

        Patrick, I too was in the firearms and ammunition business many years ago, and I agree. Replying to Flashy…With all due respect, 200 million people(many of them children)were liquidated by their own governments in the 20th century after they were disarmed by those same governments. That is an historical fact and can’t be changed by liberal spin. I think I, and over 100 thousand of my fellow Americans will keep our guns , and you sir, can keep the change.

      • Kate8

        Hipshot – Flashy deserves no “due respect”. He is a troll, a paid shill. He is here every day spewing his commy talking points. We’ve had these debates for years now, and none of the trolls ever answer to reason. They just come back with the same mantras, over and over and over and over and over and over….

      • Vicki

        Kate8 says about Flashy:
        ” He is a troll, a paid shill. He is here every day spewing his commy talking points. We’ve had these debates for years now, and none of the trolls ever answer to reason. They just come back with the same mantras, over and over and over and over and over and over….”

        Which is why we must counter their mantra over and over again. They are getting paid, we are volunteer but do it we must for the pen IS mightier than the sword etc and we must use it.

      • walter agard

        We are not fighting a deadly war in this country, why do we need an assault rifle it is only for the army to have. If we have and owned one, we are only fighting HATE with it,or we are crazy.

      • Kate8

        Walt – Or, perhaps, to defend ourselves against law enforcement and/or military run amok?

      • eddie47d

        Patrick: You kind of proved that multi-magazine weapons (30 clip) do alot of harm.Then go on to say that it didn’t make any difference because they switched to a lower clip number. Exactly! Now we are getting somewhere as in they are all dangerous to the public no matter how large the magazine is.

      • Robert Smith

        Vicki and Kate: “” He is a troll, a paid shill. ”

        A straight claim like that should have proof.

        Or are you simply trying to be nasty because you don’t like what he, or I for that matter, say? Seems like you use “troll” right up there with commie and all the other slurs.

        BTW, do you begrudge what Mr. Livingston makes from this forum?

        Rob

      • Kate8

        Robert – You have all been outed in many places of late. People have come forward, admitting to the onslaught of those paid to come to blogsites like this one to disrupt and refute, refute, refute. People like you are chosen for their relative ignorance and disinterest in politics in general, and are fed what to believe and what to say.

        You are taught techniques for drawing people into debates, ridiculing, name-calling, and being generally annoying. You try to discredit those with opposing viewpoints by making fun of sources or using names like “conspiracy theorist” and so forth.

        You are paid, also, to collect list of those who know too much, or who oppose the current creeps in power, so they can be investigated and identified.

        These “armies” of trolls are unleased on conservative leaning sites by government agencies, like branches of the CIA or FBI. You are tools of the enemies of our Republic.

        You are all of one mind (some of you, literally). You think in lockstep. You use the same talking points to drive sane people nuts. You never respond to reason.

        Anyone can do a search and come up with articles about this. I’m not making it up. I’ve read them, but I won’t do anyone’s search for them. It’s just not that hard to do.

      • Nick Czudy

        Hip Shot Percussion and Time. I read the 2nd amendment yesterday and it is two sentences long. No where do I see that it says that the people have the right for all types of weapons. does it apply to: Automatic weapons, bazookas, bombs, nukes etc. IT was written when the available weapon was a single shot musket. It was also written when the average Joe had to come together to defend against England, as an invader. So let the free and independent gun mongers have a single shot musket. Obviously, it was written for the situation at that time. It had no idea of the advances since then in weapon technology. So why all the crying when our present day US citizen wants to place some limits on what is allowed in the second amendment. I think that if these types of weapons are controlled and limited, it will become effective after a time as attrition takes them out of the criminal circulation. They are so easy to buy now, that it is too easy for criminals to get them. Once all of the limits have been in place for a long time, the availability will decrease. Nothing will change over night. Many of you are touting statistics of crime going up or down. I found out yesterday that there were actually laws enacted that prevented studies on guns and crimes to be disclosed to the public. what kind of wacko law was that. It was meant to actually oppress the statistics. So I do not believe that having more guns decreased deaths. I have seen world wide statistics, and outside of war zones like Syria, the USA has more deaths from guns than most of the rest of the world put together. So I cannot bye that having more guns will lower crime.

        Hip Shot, you mentioned that 200,000 million people were killed by “Democide” this is killing by governments. The article was by Mr. Rummel and it said that there were about 262 million deaths in the 20th century. these were mostly committed by Stalin (43million) in the Congo and Mao in China with a huge famine. The difference here is that they were dictators or abusive regimes and not democratically voted governments that are made up of your neighbors and relatives, with elected officials that have to stand to re-election every few years. The USA is an elected democracy of a government for the people and by the people. They are not rapacious rulers. Where in the second amendment does it say that you need to have assault weapons to use against our own government? Government encompassing all local, state, and federal agencies and police forces? Obama and Bush were not dictators they were elected by us. We do not need, and our laws do not tolerate, expressing your views on our country by keeping guns for the purpose of showing your disagreements with the laws of the land or your county. So this sentiment, that you need to have these assault weapons to fight ourselves in our duly elected government does not have a rational reason. The police that you think are oppressing you, might be your neighbor or relative. And let say that you want to be a branch Dividian situation like in Waco, TX, defending your freedom. Do you think that if it came to a war between you and the USA military, police, FBI, CIA, civil guard and other agencies, that you have any chance can make any difference in the inevitable outcome? You will lose!!! Big time! You will go to jail or die! That you got to amass a number of heavy weapons under the 2nd amendment, . it will not make any difference against the USA,. The USA has 10 times the military and arms than the next 10 armed countries in this world. That whole concept of allowing citizens to keep firearms against the government is ridiculous. So what you are saying is that anyone can have the right to a gun, for purposes that they would need to go against the government. I would think that the usual activities might be defense, protection, recreation, hunting, and (add something that I might have forgotten here). The second amendment should not and does not allow for the ownership of military and weapons of mass destruction. So what is the problem if owning a handgun, shotgun, or rifle. Does it have to be an assault rifle? This would give you the right to “Bear arms”. What they have been talking about today on the political news shows seems reasonable and does not take away the right for you to own one or more guns.
        1) Lets restrict semi-automatic assault weapons, whose purpose is only to kill a lot of people or defend against a similar weapon.
        2) Lets close the gun show loop hole that lets anyone buy weapons without ID or a background check. This applies over the internet.
        3) Make a background check, manditory for anyone that wants to buy or own a gun.
        4) limit magazines to 10 bullets or less.
        5) Criminals and people with mental problems should be denied a license and therefor cannot buy a gun.
        6) give a two week waiting period so that the background check can be made before delivering the gun to the buyer.
        7) make illegal and close the ability for straw buyers to buy guns for other people to get around the background check.
        8) require a training coarse so that new gun owners can learn gun safety, using, storing/locking guns, applicable laws and gun etiquette.
        This will not prevent any of the 99% of responsible gun owners to have their multiple guns, handguns, shotguns and rifles. You can use them as you like and nothing is lost.

        • Frank Kahn

          To respond intelligently I must first point out the extreme ignorance of your main assertion.

          When the 2nd amendment was written there were only single shot muzzle loader weapons. By this fact you erroneously assert that it was only applicable to that type of weapon. If that was their specific intent, would it not have been more logical for them to say it? A citizens right to bear a musket shall not be infringed? Had they worded it that way, would they have been ignorant and myopic? Or, were they brilliantly farsighted in the wording, which allows for unknown and unforeseeable advancements in weapons technology? The choice of words is very important today, in that, it gives us the RIGHT TO BEAR ARMS, with the intent of using them if the GOVERNMENT becomes too OPPRESSIVE. Now, it would be extremely silly to think that we could defend ourselves from an oppressive government using any type of single shot weapon. It is not much better to think that we could be successful with semi-automatic weapons. So the idea of owning and possessing true ASSAULT WEAPONS capable of AUTOMATIC fire is not so far fetched, when viewing in the frame of reference of protection from the GOVERNMENT.

          The assumption that all of the US MILITARY would automatically side with the FEDERAL GOVERNMENT is wrong.

          Now to a point by point response to your list of conditions.

          1) Lets restrict semi-automatic assault weapons, whose purpose is only to kill a lot of people or defend against a similar weapon.
          THE IDEA OF DEFENDING AGAINST A GOVERNMENT RESPONSE THAT WOULD INDEED USE SUCH WEAPONS SAYS THAT BANNING THEM IS WRONG. IF NOT BANNING THEM, JUST RESTRICTING THEM, WHO WOULD BE ALLOWED TO HAVE THEM?

          2) Lets close the gun show loop hole that lets anyone buy weapons without ID or a background check. This applies over the internet.
          PURCHASING A GUN (WITH AT HOME DELIVERY) OVER THE INTERNET IS ALREADY ILLEGAL.

          3) Make a background check, manditory for anyone that wants to buy or own a gun.
          SINCE IT IS ALREADY A LAW FOR PURCHASING A HAND GUN I AM ASSUMING YOU MEAN TO INCLUDE RIFLES. AS TO STRICT REQUIREMENTS, I HAD TO SIGN A STATEMENT SWEARING I WAS NOT CONVICTED OR ACCUSED OF DOMESTIC VIOLENCE TO PURCHASE BB’S IN ARIZONA.

          4) limit magazines to 10 bullets or less.
          THE REASONING BEING? I OWN A 22 CALIBER TUBE FEED RIFLE THAT WILL HOLD 20 22LR CARTRIDGES, IS THAT GOING TO BE ILLEGAL?

          5) Criminals and people with mental problems should be denied a license and therefor cannot buy a gun.
          YOU HAVE FAILED TO PREVIOUSLY DEFINE AND EXPLAIN THE REQUIREMENTS FOR WHATEVER LICENSE YOU ARE REFERRING TO. IT IS ALREADY ILLEGAL FOR FELONS OR PEOPLE WITH DOCUMENTED MENTAL ILLNESS (INCLUDING ATTEMPTED SUICIDE) TO OWN GUNS.

          6) give a two week waiting period so that the background check can be made before delivering the gun to the buyer.
          WHAT IS THE REASON FOR THE 2 FULL WEEKS FOR A BACKGROUND CHECK? ARE YOU REFERRING TO A CRIMINAL CHECK? ARE YOU REFERRING TO THE TYPE OF BACKGROUND CHECK I WENT THROUGH FOR MY TS SECURITY CLEARANCE?

          7) make illegal and close the ability for straw buyers to buy guns for other people to get around the background check.
          NOW THIS ONE IS POORLY WORDED, IMPOSSIBLE TO ENFORCE AND LEAVES OUT A VERY IMPORTANT POSSIBILITY. WHAT YOU ARE REALLY PROPOSING IS TO MAKE IT ILLEGAL FOR ME TO SELL YOU A GUN AS A PRIVATE OWNER OF THE FIREARM. THIS IS ALSO A PROBLEM WITH ITEM 6 SINCE THERE IS NO LAW THAT REQUIRES ME TO PERFORM A BACKGROUND CHECK BEFORE SELLING MY GUNS. EVEN IF I WAS REQUIRED TO DO THE CHECK TO SELL IT, I COULD STILL LOAN IT OUT WITHOUT THE CHECK. MAYBE YOU WANT TO FORCE ME TO DO THAT ALSO. SO ACTUALLY THIS ONE IS THE MOST RESTRICTIVE GUN CONTROL ITEM ON YOUR LIST WITH THE EXCEPTION OF ACTUALLY BANNING ASSAULT WEAPONS.

          8) require a training coarse so that new gun owners can learn gun safety, using, storing/locking guns, applicable laws and gun etiquette.
          WOW, THIS ONE IS VERY COMPLEX, WITH MANY UNANSWERED QUESTIONS. I BELIEVE THAT EVERYONE SHOULD TAKE A GUN SAFETY COURSE, I DID WHEN I WAS 12 SO THAT I WOULD BE LEGALLY PERMITTED TO CARRY A GUN. THAT LAW ONLY APPLIED TO UNDER-AGED PEOPLE AND I THINK IT IS A GOOD IDEA FOR EVERYONE TO TAKE IT. ALTHOUGH HOW, WHEN, AND WHERE TO USE A GUN SHOULD BE COMMON SENSE, I WILL ADMIT THAT IT WOULD BE HELPFUL FOR SOME PEOPLE. STORING AND LOCKING GUNS, NOT SO MUCH A PROBLEM IF YOU DO THE FIRST STEPS CONCERNING SAFETY AND USE OF GUNS. MY HOUSEHOLD GROWING UP HAD MANY GUNS WHICH WERE NOT LOCKED UP AND THE AMMUNITION WAS EASILY ACCESSIBLE. WE NEVER HAD A PROBLEM BECAUSE WE ALL UNDERSTOOD THE SAFETY AND USE OF FIREARMS. GUN ETIQUETTE IS JUST A FANCY WAY FOR YOU TO ADD SOMETHING, SAFETY AND USE COVERS ETIQUETTE. NOW FOR THE QUESTIONS, WHO WILL APPROVE THE CURRICULUM FOR THE CLASSES? WHO WILL TEACH THE CLASSES? WHO WILL PAY FOR THE CLASSES? AT WHAT AGE SHOULD THEY BE TAUGHT? HOW DO YOU DETERMINE A PERSON IS A NEW GUN OWNER, OR DID YOU MEAN BUYING A NEW GUN?

      • Nick Czudy

        To: Bob Livingston, Katie8, Vickie and Rob Smith…………………………………………………..
        The three of you keep ridiculing Flash. I think that his opinion is very sane and reasonable. You seem to think that there is a conspiracy of government departments sending “Trolls and Shills” to sabotage these right leaning blogs. Then by expressing their left leaning opinions they are here to drive “sane people” (who? You guys?) nuts. Haha ………………………………………………………………………………………………………………….
        I suppose that I am also one of these shills and trolls. I like to come here because it is entertaining to me to listen to the right wing rhetoric and view points. I like to know what makes you tick. I am trying to understand your extreme philosophies. Last of all and most importantly, I am here to try and shed some light into your opinions by fair discussions and debates to help you see the light. I think that your thought is on the wrong track and I will try and convince you of the right road to follow. You may be too indoctrinated to have any of this sink in, but I will try and I will enjoy hearing your response. I will not get nasty to any of you and I look forward to a brisk discussion. If you are truly conservative and not extreme, then you should not be making insane accusations that other people on this site are subversives trolls. I am independent. I hate unions and I think that the GOP are puppets of the 1% wealthy and they do everything possible to keep them in power. I believe firmly that to get the economy climbing, we need to keep more money in the hands of the middle class. They will spend all of it and keep the money circulating. But I like the way the left reasons things out and are open to ideas, where the right seem to be entrenched in their ideas almost like religion. The dogma is deeply rooted. I find often flawed. But I want to try and understand you. Bob Livingston and the rest of the writers on this blog are here to foment hatred and mis-truths about the left and our government, because that is how they make their money. They have been proven totally out to lunch in all of their predictions on the elections. So be it. This is their blog, If I did not like it, I can leave anytime. They know they are lying. They do it on purpose to get your dander up, then they have a loyal follower. It is truly entertaining. warmest regards to all and a very Merry Christmas.

        • http://www.boblivingstonletter.com/ Bob Livingston

          Dear Nick Czudy,

          You write: “The three of you keep ridiculing Flash.” I do not ridicule Flashy. He has been posting for most of our four years. I have evidence leading me to believe he is a paid shill.

          You write: “I think that his opinion is very sane and reasonable.” That is certainly your prerogative.

          You write: “You seem to think that there is a conspiracy of government departments sending “Trolls and Shills” to sabotage these right leaning blogs…” It has been shown to be true. I have tracked a number of commenters to leftist organizations and law offices.

          You write: “I suppose that I am also one of these shills and trolls.” You could answer that better than anyone.

          You write: “I like to know what makes you tick. I am trying to understand your extreme philosophies.” My philosophy is only “extreme” if you believe the Constitution to be extreme. Perhaps these links will help you with this.
          http://personalliberty.com/2012/07/16/answers/
          http://personalliberty.com/2012/03/05/code-words/
          http://personalliberty.com/2008/09/22/altruism-leads-to-orwells-animal-farm/
          http://personalliberty.com/2008/09/22/strong-delusion/
          You are welcome to ask me direct questions at any time. I try to respond to all inquiries directed at me. But the best way to understand me is read with an open mind what I write.

          You write: “I am here to try and shed some light into your opinions by fair discussions and debates to help you see the light. I think that your thought is on the wrong track and I will try and convince you of the right road to follow.” I would welcome this discussion.

          You write: “You may be too indoctrinated to have any of this sink in, but I will try and I will enjoy hearing your response.” Indoctrinated is not a word I would use to describe myself. If you read the links above, I believe you will see that as well.

          You write: “If you are truly conservative and not extreme, then you should not be making insane accusations that other people on this site are subversives (sic) trolls.” See my response above.

          You write: “I think that the GOP are puppets of the 1% wealthy and they do everything possible to keep them in power.” Both parties are puppets of the elites. If you cannot see this, then you are the one who is “indoctrinated.” The 1 percent, as I have written many times, encompasses both parties and bureaucrats in government.

          You write: “I believe firmly that to get the economy climbing, we need to keep more money in the hands of the middle class.” Yes. And stealing from them through confiscatory taxes so that the money can be redistributed and the hidden tax of inflation does not do this. It benefits the elites. The only way to “keep more money in the hands of the middle class” is to slash government spending and government programs and lower tax rates so that the producers can allocate their money where it will do the most good for the economy. We cannot spend our way to prosperity.

          You write: “Bob Livingston and the rest of the writers on this blog are here to foment hatred and mis-truths about the left and our government, because that is how they make their money.” You are already violating your pledge of “fair discussions and debates” with this ad hominem. And furthermore, it is patently untrue. I could not maintain credibility and readers if wrote things that were not true.

          You write: “But I like the way the left reasons things out and are open to ideas, where the right seem to be entrenched in their ideas almost like religion.” Further evidence you are suffering from indoctrination. You need to divest yourself of the false left/right paradigm. The two parties are two sides of the same coin. All the “discussion” about left and right are designed to distract you from the theft of your wealth and liberties that is ongoing.

          You write: “They have been proven totally out to lunch in all of their predictions on the elections.” Who is this “they” you speak of. I have not made any predictions regarding the election.

          You write: “They know they are lying. They do it on purpose to get your dander up, then they have a loyal follower.” Again you violate your pledge. And who is this “they?”

          Best wishes,
          Bob

      • Robert Smith

        Kate8 says: “You have all been outed in many places of late.”

        Still no proof.

        I am directly calling you a liar when you accuse me of being paid for my efforts here. I’ve explained the “why” of what I’m doing several times, I believe at least once to you directly.

        Now, how’s ’bout you getting back to discussing gun laws instead of attacking people who you know nothing about.

        Rob

      • Vicki

        Nick Czudy says:
        “I read the 2nd amendment yesterday and it is two sentences long. No where do I see that it says that the people have the right for all types of weapons.”

        I don’t see the word weapon in the amendment at all. It does mention arms which is of the meaning every terrible implement of the soldier.

        Nick Czudy: “IT was written when the available weapon was a single shot musket.

        Not exactly. There were a range of implements available in the late 1790s

        Crossbow
        ———————————————————————
        “A weapon of mass destruction: AD 1139-1346

        Pope Innocent II and the second Lateran council take a firm stand, in 1139, against a weapon which they consider morally unacceptable in its devastating capacity to kill. It is the crossbow, invented in China in the 3rd century BC and first recorded in use in Europe in a battle at Hjörungsvag in Norway in AD 986″
        ———————————————————————

        Hmmmm…. Sounds like today’s description of an “assault weapon”
        -
        -

        Catapult and ballista (so we get tanks, howetzers and other cannon)

        Greek fire (so we get flame throwers)

        The longbow

        Swiss pikes and halberds

        Artillery
        Hand guns
        Flintlock
        Cartridges
        Bayonet
        _____________________________________________________________________
        http://www.historyworld.net/wrldhis/PlainTextHistories.asp?groupid=312&HistoryID=aa89&gtrack=pthc#908

        So many implements beyond the simple musket. In fact there is even the Puckle Gun – 1718

        “In 1718, James Puckle of London, England, demonstrated his new invention, the “Puckle Gun,” a tripod-mounted, single-barreled flintlock gun fitted with a multishot revolving cylinder. This weapon fired nine shots per minute at a time when the standard soldier’s musket could be loaded and fired but three times per minute.”

      • JC

        Nick Czudy says:

        December 19, 2012 at 7:06 pm

        Hip Shot Percussion and Time. I read the 2nd amendment yesterday and it is two sentences long. No where do I see that it says that the people have the right for all types of weapons. does it apply to: Automatic weapons, bazookas, bombs, nukes etc. IT was written when the available weapon was a single shot musket. It was also written when the average Joe had to come together to defend against England, as an invader.
        ________________________________________________________________________

        Here again we have someone who completely misses the intention of the Second Amendment.

        The Second Amendment is in place to protect us from tyranny, foreign invasion and provide us with the means to defend and feed ourselves should it become necessary.
        How do you suppose we would protect ourselves from Tryrants Foreign and Domestic or Criminals using black powder muskets?

        Another example of liberals unable to understand principle, morality or use genuine logic in any sane way.

        • Nick Czudy

          JC. You have been smoking too much gun powder lately. Or do you live in Colorado and are smoking those funny cigarettes? The second amendment is being interpreted in many ways, just like the bible. Everyone reads it and comes up with their own interpretation. It is two sentences long. There is not much there.

          So if you need to feed your self and you live in New York, everyone will be going around with their guns and be shooting all of the cats and dogs to survive. Maybe the squirrels and bunnies. to protect against tyranny? You are going to go shoot up your government. I have news for you. You will get your ass kicked.
          This is so much bull. When it was written, all of the American population needed a gun to mobilize against England. You have an army to do that for you to-day. It was written when a gun was a single, front loading musket. Yes that is ok for everyone to have one of those. It is so far out of touch with today’s reality. It needs to be rewritten.

      • JC

        Gee Nick, you think the Second Amendment is up for interpretation, do you?
        It isn’t. The intent is clear. Only “Liberals” need to try and interpret (twist) it’s meaning.

        I do not. I understand it very well.

        As for “shooting up the government”…again here you go with your wild “liberal” imagination.
        No one is going to pick a war with the government….but if you think American troops will stand with a tyrant against the American people, the I think you’re in for a surprise.
        And Americans…meaning patriots and of course discounting the liberal/socialist as parasites…will stand for themselves when and where it becomes necessary.
        And they will be able to do so…because of the Second Amendment.

        I can’t speak for you’re version of Canadians, but the ones I know are one hell of a lot smarter than you are.

        • Nick Czudy

          hey J.C. is it John. So you think that you are smarter than me. Typical of the superiority of a patriot. What exactly is a patriot. It is a backwards thinking hick that thinks that Americans need a gun to counteract a tyrant and a government that they do not agree with. If you truly believe in the constitution as you say you are, then you will agree and abide by the notion that our different levels of government have been all installed by the due process, written into the constitution, then there is no need to hoard guns to oppose them. Now if you wanted to oppose Stephan Harper, and take him out in moment of fury and insurrection, I would support you. But the notion that Americans, especially ones that claim that they are patriots, need guns to oppose the various forms of government is a total lunacy. And you think that you are smarter than me. haha. It moves you down a notch where I had placed you earlier. Liberals cannot be pigeon holes as the right love to place them. They use their heads in what every situation comes up and do not rely on ancient dogma and rhetoric the way the right wing gun mongers do. You all are so predictable. It is a joke. The left are all over the map as they use their heads in any situation. Look at Congress last night. The martyr GOP tea partiers would rather put 98% of Americans in financial duress than to do something sensible that they were elected to do. Why are you right wingers so damn adamant to follow the party doctrine in stead of using your heads for the common good. Sounds like a fundamental terrorist mentality. Do you guys think that if you stick to your antiquated philosophies, you will die and go to heaven with 70 virgin cowgirls and an arsenal of weapons and live happily ever after? This is not what a “Patriot” would do for his country. This type of behavior is more what would be classified as a traitor instead of Patriot. So keep on arming your friends and everyone that come in contact with you. Me, I am happy not to have one with me or carry one every day. I am a photographer so I will carry a camera with me everyday. You can carry your gun. But if you invite me for target practice or a hunting trip, I would take the opportunity to try something at least once. But I do not need to have a gun on me at all times. It is too bad that you live in such fear in your life.
          regards. Nick Czudy

          • Frank Kahn

            I am trying to get this straight, are you a citizen of my country or not? You speak like you are from England, some Brit that wants us to be subservient to the gods of power. Besides your arguments being based on ignorance and lies, you have the nerve to pigeon hole the right wing as some backward ignorant group of moronic hicks?

            God is a good and merciful ruler of the universe, belief in him is neither ancient nor outdated. The right to bear arms is guaranteed for the express purpose of defending our freedom from an oppressive government. Your opinion on the prudence of this does not matter one iota. Nor, will we use our GOD given right to protect your worthless existence when the crapola hits the fan.

            I dont personally carry a gun with me everywhere I go, but I reserve the right to do so if I so choose. Guns save lives, guns prevent crime, guns are good and only paranoid idiots are afraid of them. I never had to shoot a domestic intruder before, but when they heard the distinct sound of a 45 automatic being charged they left real fast. Sleeping with that loaded pistol tucked under my mattress saved me the loss of property and possibly my life. I just wish they had had the decency to close the door when they left.

      • http://yahoo gator

        sorry Pat, but if you were a firearms dealer as you say; please use the proper terminology. For instance if the gov. wants to confiscate my clips, they can hav’em, but they cannot take my magazines.
        Speaking of magazines, a 30-round magazine is actually, a little cumbersome from carry standpoint; more difficult to shoot from a prone position, more likely to get tangled in clothes, on vines, etc., generally less handy. This can be a BIG downside.

      • Mac M

        “GUN CONTROL” is not about Guns. It IS all about Control.

        Control of your life by someone else, who in large part thinks that you are not capable of being responsible for your own welfare and the actions you take. In this case, Safety and security for yourself and possibly your loved ones. Verses how it might apply to THEIR safety if you remain armed, should they do something to you that you would need to defend yourself.

        As for the CCW arguments:

        To Vicki. Thank you for the link to “More Guns, Less Crime”. http://www.amazon.com/More-Guns-Less-Crime-Understanding/dp/0226493660: I bought it and am reading it. Even the boring statistics parts in the front. Good book, informative with reference materials listed.

        As for the reference to the UN report on violent (shooting) death world wide. As so many others have mentioned. “Americas” is a lump of the Americas Continent not just of The United States of America. Something along the lines of taking informative data “out of context” I think would be fair to say.

        To Bob Livingston. You can dress a Pig up in a Tutu, but you can’t teach them to dance Swan Lake. You are not now, not ever, NEVER get someone with a closed mind to admit that they just “might be, could be, possibly” (pick as many as you like) be wrong. I once read on a church marquise “The first sign of someone with a closed mind is, AN OPEN MOUTH.” Flashy sounds a lot like my dad, God rest his soul, emotional arguments not based upon research or fact.

        There used to be a series on TV a few years ago about a family of Dinosaurs that were set in a modern human environment. Actually quite entertaining, anyway, in one of the episodes there was a shortage of Pistachio Nuts. The central family’s oldest son joined the army to fight in the war to get the Nuts. A protest marcher was carrying a sign that said.

        We
        Are
        Right

        It make me think of history. Have you ever even heard of a WAR being fought because the participants thought that they:

        We’re
        All
        wRong

    • http://www.facebook.com/paul.torsiello Paul

      Bloomberg, Schumer etc…all pantywaist anti Gunners! Time to make America safe again, be armed and be ready, for anything and anyone!

      • Walt

        Bloomberg, Shumer, Emanual, Finestein, Nadler….why does it seem that mostly folks with Jewish names are advocating for gun control? It seems to me that their history of persecution in Europe and in other countries, would make them staunch supporters of the 2nd Amendment. After all, had Jews in Germany, along with all Germans, not been disarmed by Hitler, the scenes of sheep-like docile civilians being herded in trains like cattle might have been quite different.

        If all the Jews in Europe had access to legal guns in the early 1940′s, the Germans might have seen many more fierce and brave uprisings, like occurred in the Warsaw ghettoes.

        Their activism against guns might suggest that their collective agenda is political, with the intent of disarming American citizens, so as to turn them into sheep-like docile civilians, which could be easily herded into……

      • Vicki

        Some of the Jewish people still have the common sense that God gave us. You can see more about their point of view on guns here. http://www.jpfo.org

      • http://www.facebook.com/WizardKiller Mark Are Reynolds

        I am sure that these politicians all have paid body guards, bullet proof cars, gated communities that they live in. Hey, it’s like the hunger games! That’s what is coming. They are hypocrites and I hope someone sticks a knitting needle in Bloomburgs skull. And then the next mayor can ban knitting needles. F&^king morons.

      • Nadzieja Batki

        Walt, there are enough self loathing Jews in the US who deny their people and their God and their heritage. Liberalism/Leftism is a religion to these people and it trumps everything that is why they sound as stupid as any Dem/Prog/Leftist on this site.

      • eddie47d

        Nadzieja: I’ll admit I’m a Progressive if you admit you are deranged and full of it!

      • tc

        those of you without weapons are the ones those of us with weapons will be defending when the time comes, ironic isn’t it! silly fools!

    • TIME

      Dear JL,

      As I lived in New York amoung many places on the earth, as well i have not only spoken in person with Blumberg but have had other interactions with him on other levels, he has an agenda, thus everything he speaks of makes him at best both “disingenous as well dishonest” I will leave it at that.

      He is a control freak, > as are most Alphas, > but saddly he’s NOT an alpha, there in lies the problem.
      Thus he asserts his opinions on others yet is a total hypocrite in all respects, thus we come back to the old adage of: { Do as I Comand, not as I do.}
      Saddly thats the very same with all politicians we have at this point in time within the names Mr. Livingston noted within the text of his blog.

      Now if you could wrap your brain around this platform ~ if we as a nation had leaders who were in fact experts at what they do, rather than stuffed suits who’s goal is futher feather their nest, what would this nation let alone the world be like?

      As in ~ mayors who’s true interest is the people of their town, POTUS who’s had staffs who were real farmers and business people and engineers etc. rather than ivory tower quasi experts who have no common threads with the people whom their actions effect on a personal level daily.

      Wow I bet this nation would be in far better shape, and the world quite well may live in Peace rather than overt and covert hate of each other.

      Peace and Love Merry Christmas Shalom,

      • Robert Smith

        From Time: “Peace rather than overt and covert hate of each other.”

        Gets my vote.

        How do we get peace when muslums want to covert or kill everyone except members of their religion?

        How do we get peace when christians want to control women’s reproductive organs and personal issues like assisted suicide?

        How do we get to peace when the top 2% are sucking more and more from the other 98%?

        How do we get peace with so many folks dying from not having health care?

        How do we get peace with christians like Fred Phelps telling us that his brutal god hates fags?

        How do we get peace when it is said by some that some countries should be denied existence?

        How do we get peace when adults are told they can’t have their recreational drug of choice?

        How do we get peace when some merchants are told they aren’t allowed to be open on Sundays?

        Rob

      • Kate8

        TIME – OMG. RS comes back with the SAME TALKING POINGS, which have been discussed to the point of lunacy. Proves my poing, again. Trolls have no interest in discussion, but only repeating the same lies over and over, hoping someone will believe them. Not a snowball’s chance in h…

        Anyway, TIME, lawyers have taken over our system, and have rigged it to benefit themselves in every way. It’s not just a joke that lawyers are sharks. They really are. They know how to twist the laws beyond all recognition. They have no interest in justice, but only theft and plunder and control…

        It is unlawful for lawyers to hold office, for this very reason: that they are agents of foreign powers (British Accredited Registry). They need to all be removed from office, and held for treason and high crimes.

        Anyway, what you say about Blumberg is true. It’s true of most politicians. They’ve rigged it so that their own ranks hold most positions in all levels of government, and they call the shots. For the time being. They only hold power over us because we attribute power to them.

        Interesting times ahead.

        BTW, the elite control us with their use of symbols and numbers. These are all things of the 3rd dimensional plane. It’s okay to understand them, but we must not give them so much power. This is the realm from which we are passing…

      • TIME

        Dear Mr. Smith,

        Saddly what most can’t fathom is that PEACE is a state of mind, drugs can’t get you there nor can anyone else, its all within YOU, Thus ~ only YOU can allow this beautiful gift to flow like water off the mountain,

        Morals are a state of natural Laws that allow “FREE MEN” to live an unfetterd life with out the Criminal class / RULERS to dictate by way of pernicious laws that impinge and destroy all that is good and pure.

        Gods laws are quite simple to follow, “No Man shall Commit Muder” that means even the basic cells that are formed by way of Conception. { Murder is Murder} its that simple, even a caveman can understand that.

        Saddly the 2% that you speak of is a fake number, the TRUTH ~ is that less than .005% of the world population dictate pernicious laws to the mass’s.
        Whats even more so sad is that the mass’s allow such behavior of what ends TIME after TIME in repacious behavior by the noted Rulers.
        Perhaps a better class of leaders needs to be acquired by the human condition, rather then buying a pre packaged product of evil but looks Pious on the outside.

        Humans must learn to allow for social constructs that are varied from their own platforms, as we all believe in some form of { “HIGHER POWER” } A creator or a Sorce, as I have noted countless times over the years we have the mark of our Creator within our DNA, its found within the Fused block – Its quite clear as its spells out YAH that means GOD,

        Display acts of kindness daily extend your heart to others, give and expect nothing in return, these are easy for anyone to follow, and the results are beautiful.
        Learn what its really like to be in anothers shoes, walk amoung your fellow humans, hey the least expensive gift anyone can give and is valued by all ~ { is a big smile,}
        Try it some TIME. the results are beautiful.

        As a friend wrote many years ago:

        “IMAGINE” all the people living in the world today ~ you may say I am a dreamer but I am not the only one, I hope some day you will join us and the world will live as ONE.
        John Lennon, John was asking the Christ for a union of LOVE. Saddly very few get it.

        The Christ wants all of us; TO Be Kind to all we encounter. Treat each other as we would like to be treated.

        PEACE and LOVE, Merry Christmas Shalom

      • Vicki

        Robert Smith writes:
        “How do we get peace when christians want to control women’s reproductive organs…?”

        What we want is for MEN and women to control their own reproductive organs and stop killing the children. For the men who can’t we have a solution for the women who would be their victims. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9DO42gUPdwk

      • eddie47d

        There Vickie goes again in thinking that someone out there doesn’t want a woman to defend herself including Sarah Brady. Is that really true? I’m all for castrating rapists (after the trial) . If a woman shoots an attacker so what but the laws aren’t always in her favor. As I brought up yesterday thousands of women are in jail for defending themselves against boyfriends and husbands and if they use a gun it can mean serious prison time. Who out there demands that a woman has to be obedient to her husband? I know you have the answer to that. Husbands take that literally but their wives seldom come out on the winning end.

      • Robert Smith

        Time says: “Saddly what most can’t fathom is that PEACE is a state of mind, drugs can’t get you there nor can anyone else, its all within YOU, Thus ~ only YOU can allow this beautiful gift to flow like water off the mountain,”

        And I went to a street hot dog vendor in Philly one day during the King Tut exhibit. I asked him to make me one with everything and handed him a $5. I waited for a moment and asked him about my change. He said, “Change must come from within.”

        Rob

      • Vicki

        eddie47d says:
        “There Vickie goes again in thinking that someone out there doesn’t want a woman to defend herself including Sarah Brady. Is that really true?”

        Demonstrably yes. The video linked provides additional evidence.

        Eddie47d: “I’m all for castrating rapists (after the trial).”

        That would be cleanup not defense. Defense has to happen at the time of the rape attempt.

        Eddie47d: “If a woman shoots an attacker so what but the laws aren’t always in her favor.”

        That is the problem with creeping gun control. Still better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6.

        Eddie47d: ” As I brought up yesterday thousands of women are in jail for defending themselves against boyfriends and husbands and if they use a gun it can mean serious prison time.”

        So address the broken court system instead.

        Eddie47d: “Who out there demands that a woman has to be obedient to her husband? I know you have the answer to that.”

        Then why did you ask? Oh a rhetorical (and useless) question.

    • John

      Bloomberg is a billionaire who wants to impose his opinions on others. Fortunately we have a set of rules (the Constitution) to prevent this if they are enforced. All gun laws are unconstitutional! Many of the laws unconstitutionally passed are enforced through ignorance or mal-intent by evil doers. At this point so much damage has been done to our set of rules by these evil doers (Bloomberg et.al.) one must conclude alternate means to remediate this situation may be needed. I believe it was the first chief justice of the supreme court, John Jay, who said we are duty bound to disobey any law passed in defiance of the constitution. I regret I may have to sacrifice my life for the Freedoms my ancestors bled and died for. I will do my duty.

      • Patriot

        Q: Why is that all the people like Bloomberg that want to take away all the guns, if they had their way, have armed body guards for their own protection? Are these guys really that important? I think not, let them roam the streets like the rest of us without any guns or guards. Do you think then that they would still advocate gun control, I think not! These people have only 1 agenda and that is taking away all our liberties and some among us would, sadly would give up without a fight!

      • Kate8

        John and Patriot – Well said. “Let them roam the streets like the rest of us…”

        Indeed. Perhaps they soon will be doing just that.

        The only difference between the elite and us is that they are inherently evil, and they have a lot of money with which to buy power.

        How many of us, if we search inside, can say that we would not be seduced into a life of untold wealth and power if offered the opportunity? How many street people have sold their souls for the same in music, movies and media? Because our world, our reality, is really the reflection of our collective consciousness. Who are we to blame for it?

        They have all sold their souls to someone more powerful than they, and they are puppets, as they must be, to serve their masters and keep their ill-gotten gains. They steal from us because they can…it’s so easy…the system is set up to make it easy. We are nothing but farm animals to them, to be plundered and exploited in any way they choose. Just as we tend to exploit other life forms we deem to be less worthy.

        But they are prisoners in their own worlds, terrified of US that we would know who and what they really are: little men with no souls. So they now are plotting to remove any remnant of power we have left (or so they think).

        What they are hoping is that we don’t realize that we have power beyond firearms. We have the power of spirit, should we care to use it. Perhaps the only way we will discover it is if it is all we have left to us.

        I recall a sign in my mom’s (alternative) doctor’s office: FAITH IS ONLY FAITH WHEN IT’S ALL YOU’RE HOLDING ON TO.

      • eddie47d

        That’s not necessarily true because one of Bloombergs job is to protect the citizens of New York City as it is with any city Mayor. Gun crimes were rampant for decades in that city and he cleaned up the murder rate. He does it for the safety of Conservatives and Liberals alike. Does he overreach in stopping people I would agree with that but not in keeping his city safe. There are some cities in America you don’t want to be caught dead in so which do you prefer? Now if he can stop the gun runners from red states(Carolina’s) from polluting his city with guns then maybe he’s doing something right.

    • Valor

      It is time you people that think gun control laws should be stronger get a taste of reality. The stronger the gun control laws, the higher the crime. Fact of life! The worse part about disarming law abiding citizens is that weapons are always available to evil people. In other words, when the law abiding are disarmed, only the evil doers AND the government will be armed. Both prospects should scare the pants off anyone with a brain. The Second Amendment, as described in the Federalist Papers, is primarily about a last line of defense against the tyranny of government Which is exactly why the anti gun politicians push for gun control. It has NOTHING to do with saving children, and EVERYTHING to do with termination of liberty. If these scum balls that the idiotic voters keep electing really cared about the safety of anyone they would do away with “Gun Free Zones” as those areas are the most dangerous places in the country. Every nut case knows he can go into a gun free zone and safely execute as many as he can before someone with a gun arrives to stop him. In short, gun control is not, and never has been, about public safety. It is and always has been about power over the masses. Quite frankly, a people that elect and re-elect miscreants like Obama, Reid, and the others deserve to be subjugated..

      • Jeremy Leochner

        Then what about new York. New York city has some of the harshest and strongest gun control in the country. Yet their crime rate has gone down, heck they recently celebrated a day with no murders.

      • eddie47d

        Besides Valor, legal gun owners and our watered down laws make it too easy for criminals to get their guns. Why do so many home robbers find weapons lying around? Irresponsible gun owners. Why do people who do bad things have easy access to semi-automatic weapons. Weak laws and irresponsible gun owners.

      • Vicki

        Proof of the case that guns do NOT cause crime.

      • Jeremy Leochner

        Wait Vicki. Bloomberg pretty much banned guns and their crime rate has gone down. How is that evidence that guns don’t cause crime.

      • JC

        Jeremy, post some evidence to that affect.

      • eddie47d

        Please JC do some homework and stop expecting others to do it for you.

      • Vicki

        Jeremy Leochner says:
        “Wait Vicki. Bloomberg pretty much banned guns and their crime rate has gone down. How is that evidence that guns don’t cause crime.”

        Show your evidence that Bloomberg banned guns.

      • Jeremy Leochner

        You know I apologize. I have always heard that Bloomberg was such an anti gun zealot. I assumed and I apologize. What I now know is the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence ranks New York State as having the fourth strongest gun control laws in the country.-http://www.bradycampaign.org/stategunlaws/scorecard/NY/

      • JC

        eddie47d says:

        December 19, 2012 at 4:47 pm

        Please JC do some homework and stop expecting others to do it for you.
        ____________________________________________________________________

        Bite me commie boy. You liberal retards post lies as if they were thruth every 5 minutes.
        Prove it or STFU.

        • Nick Czudy

          J.C. “Bite me Commie boy” Now now JC are we getting a little blog rage. Many of you like to reply to a valid opinion with derogatory names. That is typical. Also most of what comes out of the mouths of Right wing fanatics is usually 80% wrong The problem is that you believe the vitriol that comes out of the mouths or keyboards of the right wing leaders. It is usually never researched, it is taken from the mouth of another GOP pundit and never verified. The one lie that has perpetrated under the GOP bubble is the lie that crime went up when assault weapons were banned. This is a blatant lie. One example is the massacre in Dunblaine Scotland. When the UK imposed a ban of many types of weapons, the death rate and crime went down. Not up as is being perpetrated by right wing NRA gun fanatics. Please stop lying on this blog. It is not just right wing GOP and us leftie commies will point it out. so what is the derogatory term for right wing, gun toting, lying plutocrats? I really do not know. Anyone? How about we stop the name calling and just debate this issue with facts. and opinions?

      • JC

        Nick Czudy says:
        December 20, 2012 at 4:23 pm
        J.C. “Bite me Commie boy” Now now JC are we getting a little blog rage. Many of you like to reply to a valid opinion with derogatory names.
        _____________________________________________________________________

        Nope, no rage at all. Just business as usual calling a spade a spade.
        I despise all communists equally and without emotion…it’s sort of the same thing as detesting rats. You don’t have to be angry to do it.

    • carlee44

      Of course its not about the children. No matter how sorry the politicos are for these families, they have been trying to gain control of guns for a long time.What else is the U.N. treaty for? We cannot let it happen.

      • Robert Smith

        44 asks: “What else is the U.N. treaty for?”

        To stop the flow of guns to criminal groups who are trying to take over countries. It will hurt gun sales so the gun companies and the NRA are all excited and fanning the flames here in America.

        NO WAY will the U.N. treaty impact America’s second amendment.

        Fact is that you can’t show me anything in print because the treaty hasn’t been finalized yet.

        Rob

      • Vicki

        Robert Smith says:
        “44 asks: “What else is the U.N. treaty for?”

        To stop the flow of guns to criminal groups who are trying to take over countries.”

        Since the criminal groups are the governments of other countries why do you think they will bother to abide by a treaty. Kinda like expecting criminals to abide by laws.

      • Dennis48e

        “NO WAY will the U.N. treaty impact America’s second amendment.”

        Just another in a LONG string of lies by RS. The UN treaty calls for the registration of ALL privately owned firearms. It calls for the elimination of private ownership of whole classes of weapons. It calls for government confiscation of firearms.

    • Nadzieja Batki

      Time, Flashy is deluded. I wouldn’t trust him to take a flee off a dog. Can you imagine dealing with someone stupid like him day after day? And there are many stupids like him out in the world.

      • John

        Right on Nadzieja! I can not believe Flashy believes in any part of the constitution. He is as disingenuous as possible. Agent provocateur?

      • Patriot

        I think Flashy is either Axelrod or work for him, the propagandist!

      • Buster the Anatolian

        Flashy has admitted in the past that he is paid to come on this site.

    • Mikey

      Politicians often hold our children “hostage” to ram their agenda down our throats. Every time they want to raise taxes in California, they claim the increase will be for the “children” in our schools. Oddly enough, it never makes it to the classrooms, and the next ballot measure is once again to raise taxes for the “children”. In reality, the added tax revenue lines the pockets of special interest groups and politicians, and sustains opulent government employee pensions. I really hate friggen politicians (well, most of them).

      • Robert Smith

        “Politicians often hold our children “hostage” to ram their agenda down our throats. ”

        Do you mean like those who don’t want their kids vaccinated?

        Rob

      • walter agard

        Robert smith, you are quite right. We cant raise our own children.The politicians do that for us with their laws. That is the reason our kids do not respect us in this age

      • Vicki

        Robert Smith says:
        ““Politicians often hold our children “hostage” to ram their agenda down our throats. ”

        Do you mean like those who don’t want their kids vaccinated?”

        Whom are they holding hostage Rob?

    • http://yahoo Larry

      In any vehicle accident the heavier of the two vehicles is the safest to be in. If you don’t believe it go head on with a 80,000 lb big rig and see for yourself.

      • Robert Smith

        Remember “Unsafe at any speed?” You are sounding like Ralph Nader.

        Fact is that with contemporary design, including air-bags, cars are much safer now than ever before.

        Look at the numbers. Show me some that will prove your point. They simply aren’t out there.

        Rob

    • Ed Mack

      Jerry,
      Back in 1957 when I got my drivers license, speeders were harrassed( I thought; GOT STOPPED TWICE). They said speed kills. Most speed limits on the open road were 55 MPH. Here in NY they built the Thruway and raised the limit there to 65 MPH. Speed still kills??. Today they are paving the shoulders of all roads now and raising speed limits.Passing on the right used to be illegal, but with shoulders now paved, most drivers do it. Apparently stopping speeders and passers on the right got boring for our officers and speed must have quit killing. BUT SOMEONE HAS TO HAVE A MOTOR VEHICLE TO KILL SOMEONE ON THE ROAD and plastic cars DO kill easier than old fashioned steel ones with real bumpers on them. My point is you hear of NO ONE wanting to ban automobiles that kill(other than long term effects EPA). It takes PEOPLE with automobiles to kill just as it takesPEOPLE with guns to kill with; stupid people. NO law against either of these machines is going to prevent the killing of other people. Must be educated people don’t believe this; poor idiots!

      • Jeremy Leochner

        Exactly Ed. Which is why I do not support a ban. However just as there are restrictions on obtaining and using cars so there must be for guns. One must go through a process to obtain a license to drive a car. One must also jump through hoops to obtain insurance. And there are numerous laws governing how one may drive a car. Sadly some are neglected and ignored at the hazard of both the user and the people around them. Regulation and laws, not bans are what is needed.

      • eddie47d

        Jeremy: They always assume that because people die in cars that its okay that people die with guns. What a crock! They are always so cold and callous about it too!

      • JC

        eddie47d says:

        December 19, 2012 at 12:49 pm

        Jeremy: They always assume that because people die in cars that its okay that people die with guns. What a crock! They are always so cold and callous about it too!
        ____________________________________________________________________

        So you’re suggesting we should give the criminals a great big warm hug instead of treating them like the vermin they are? Is that it? Moron.

    • JeffH

      Jeremy, in case you missed something…Bloomberg is a power hungry anti-gun zealot and obviously a control freak.

      Bloomberg is not above capitalizing on tragic events to spout his anti-gun rhetoric. In the wake of the shooting in Aurora, Colorado, Bloomberg was one of the first to politicize the tragedy by blaming loose gun control restrictions as a major factor in the carnage in the movie theater. Now, as New Yorkers put together parts of their city and remain endangered by the stretched-thin presence of an overwhelmed police department, Mayor Bloomberg has opened his mouth again to deny the city the kind of help it needs because his hatred of guns is greater than his commitment to New Yorkers.

      The Connecticut tragedy is yet another opportunity for Bloomberg to push his anti-gun/2nd Amendment agenda.

      Bloomberg was the man who actually advocated that police officers go on strike until citizens give up their right to keep and bear arms. As America mourned the tragedy in Aurora, Bloomberg appeared on Piers Morgan Live to trample on the right that protects all the others and said, “I don’t understand why police officers across this country don’t stand up, collectively, and say, ‘We’re going to go on strike. We’re not going to protect you unless you, the public, through your legislature, do what’s required to keep us safe.”

      In response to pleas by the Brooklyn borough president for National Guard personnel to quell the lawlessness occurring in the wake of Hurricane Sandy, Mayor Bloomberg stated,

      “We don’t need it. The NYPD is the only people we want on the street with guns.”

      Sure, that makes sense. Since the NYPD is able to effectively stop 100% of crimes, then there is no reason for the National Guard to come in and help with the recovery effort in an urban area hit by a hurricane.

      Does that sound crazy to anybody else, or is it just me?

      The level of anti-gun fanaticism illustrated by Mayor Bloomberg is reckless and it promises to needlessly endanger the inhabitants of New York City. After natural disasters, these areas become havens for lawlessness as police and emergency responders are stretched thin. Bloomberg is endangering these citizens.

      Gun Control Myths:

      This FirearmsTruth series examines gun control myths that the media continues to propagate. The first gun control laws were intended to keep minorities from being able to possess firearms. Today, the stated purpose is to keep criminals from obtaining guns for the furtherance of criminal activity. Oddly enough, the number of armed criminals has increased during the same period that gun control laws have proliferated. Draconian anti-gun laws seem to have the opposite effect of those intended.
      http://www.firearmstruth.com/gun-control-myths

      Jeremy says, “One thing I would point out Mr. Livingston. With all due respect “standards that have made automobiles lighter”. I hardly think the decrease in weight is going to so significantly speed up the car that a reasonably capable driver cannot cope with it.”

      What about an unreasonablly incapable driver that cannot cope with and control the speed of a any car?

      • Kate8

        You’ve got it right, JeffH.

        I would add, is it just me, or is anyone else questioning why our own government is arming criminals and thugs while plotting to take away guns from those of us who would defend ourselves and our neighbors?

        Why are we overlooking this very inconvenient fact?

      • JeffH

        Kate8, “we” aren’t overlooking those facts…the gun confiscators are!

        “We’ve created a ‘gun-free zone,’ a killing zone, for the sickest criminals on the face of the Earth,” says R. Lee Wrights, vice chairman of the Libertarian Party, in the aftermath of the Newtown, Conn., killings. “And we’ve made the children of this country the victims.”

        Gun-free zones have been the most popular response to previous mass killings. But many law-enforcement officials say they are actually counterproductive. “Guns are already banned in schools. That is why the shootings happen in schools. A school is a ‘helpless-victim zone,’” says Richard Mack, a former Arizona sheriff.

        “Preventing any adult at a school from having access to a firearm eliminates any chance the killer can be stopped in time to prevent a rampage,” says Jim Kouri, the public-information officer of the National Association of Chiefs of Police.

        Mass shootings are no more common than they have been in past decades, despite the impression given by the media.

        In fact, the high point for mass killings in the U.S. was 1929, according to criminologist Grant Duwe of the Minnesota Department of Corrections.

        Incidents of mass murder in the U.S. declined from 42 in the 1990s to 26 in the first decade of this century.

        The chances of being killed in a mass shooting are about what they are for being struck by lightning.

        Until the Newtown horror, the three worst K–12 school shootings ever had taken place in either Britain or Germany.

        Almost all of the public-policy discussion about Newtown has focused on a debate over the need for more gun control. In reality, gun control in a country that already has 200 million privately owned firearms is likely to do little to keep weapons out of the hands of criminals. We would be better off debating two taboo subjects — the laws that make it difficult to control people with mental illness and the growing body of evidence that “gun-free” zones, which ban the carrying of firearms by law-abiding individuals, don’t work.
        http://www.nationalreview.com/articles/335739/facts-about-mass-shootings-john-fund

      • Kate8

        JeffH – You have got to see this newsclip video.

        http://beforeitsnews.com/media/2012/12/sandy-hook-father-of-dead-daughter-caught-faking-robbie-parker-2450660.html

        Something is definitely wrong here. Thing are not as they seem. We are being played.
        BIG TIME.

      • JeffH

        Kate8, I’m not ready to go there just yet. People grieve in different ways. Here’s another clip of Robbie Parker…I doubt that we’re being played by this guy.
        http://www.blogher.com/robert-parker-dad-sandy-hook-victim-emily-parker-compassion

      • Karolyn

        Kate – Ever since I first saw that father I have been suspect of his motives. He was too quick to want to speak. However, he could just be comebody who just wants the limelight, a self-centered egotists, possibly even another sociopath. I don’t see how he could just be some kind of plant. This is a small town, and I’m sure people know him.

      • Kate8

        JeffH – In no way am I criticizing anyone’s grieving…if that is what’s going on.

        I wanted you to see it because in the beginning, if you will notice, the guy comes out laughing and smirking until he sees the camera on him, and he gets into character.

        This is just too weird. No parent grieves a lost child by laughing and smirking. Doesn’t happen. And his face shows no signs of grieving. (I’m sure you’ve seen what people look like who have recent losses of loved ones.)

        I know people think I’m a nut. But I’m aware that most everything is illusion, deceit. There is so much about all of these incidents that doesn’t add up, and I will not allow my emotions and sentiment to blind me from the truth. Remember, “It is not what is true that matters, but only what people believe is true. It’s all perception”.

        These evil creeps will stop at nothing to get what they want. NOTHING. Are they monsters enough to actually murder children, or is this another sleight of hand?

        We cannot see through the smokescreens unless we are willing to put aside our knee-jerk reactions. Emotional reaction is what the SOBs are after. We need laser vision.

        If it turns out that it is as they said, I’ll mourn with the rest of the nation. But if it is another psyop, I refuse to be jerked around again.

      • Kate8

        Karolyn – Perhaps someone might want to find out if he lives in that town, and if people know him. We have no way of knowing that at all.

        This is not the first news reporter who has reported that there is something wrong here. There were discrepancies in the names and details of those involved, among lots of other things.

        I just hate being played like the rest of the sheep. We are just tooooo easy to fool.

      • Kate8

        Here are some of the reports on the incident, pointing out some of the oddities.

        http://vaticproject.blogspot.com/

        It still bothers me about why the ER nurse in Aurora was murdered right after the incident. What did she see that they couldn’t allow to get out?

      • JeffH

        Kate8, no doubt that we must be suspect of everything these days because we’ve learned that not everything is as it appears. I also don’t believe you were accusing that guy of anything…you were just being vigilant.

      • Karolyn

        Kate – All that blog does for me is to make me think that a lot of people were confused and said a lot of different things at the time of the shootings. How about the volunteers brought in to help with the funerals? Were the caskets open? Were the kids on TV actors? What of the people who know them? It is impossible to believe that this is an Israeli plot or a made-for-Americans movie. That is just so far over the top that it makes it imposssible to believe. Too too much information, leading me to believe it is just what they say it is. I think too many people are looking for too much out of it. Every word in every report is so over-analyzed it’s ridiculous. Of course, I do think we should have more info by now.

      • Kate8

        Very good questions, Karolyn. Why is it that there are no answers to them?

        There is a police officer in a nearby town who is watching the situation closely. He uses a pseudonym in order to remain independent of the “force”, who may not appreciate his independent investigation. He has many questions, and also is saying that things are just not adding up no matter how they try to spin it. “Facts” have been altered to make them fit.

        He is going to give another report as soon as he learns something more. He is well aware that there are traitors in law enforcement.

    • http://www.facebook.com/benjamin.fox.98892 Benjamin Fox

      I believe those who say they care are the problem. John Adams said “A armed man is a citizen and a unarmed man is a slave”. Well the government wants complete control and like Hitler if the people are unarmed they do your will. The health care bill will decide who lives and dies, a gun control bill will make sure they can do what ever they want without fear of someone defending themselves. They talk about those who died without protection but, never mention how many people saved their lives with a weapon. Gun Free Zones are a invite to kill as many as you want without fear of dying yourself. Gun Control is hitting what you aim at and if a person doesn’t believe that come into my home un-invited and find out.

    • http://pweiters9.wordpress.com pweiters9

      12/19/12, People who perpetrate such atrocities don’t care what happens to them. They either kill themselves or resign themselves to their fate. And that’s why, not only will you continue to see these events, some lunatic hell-bent on walking into a public venue & mowing people down will have nobody to stop him.

      Guns or no guns, a phony issue exploited by politicians, is on a par with banning cocaine or heroin. No matter what the law is, if you have the right connections & enough money you can obtain anything.

    • Military Mom

      I am not being rude here, but all the gun laws in world “WILL NOT” stop any criminal from getting a gun…..The government and criminals will have guns and that is a fact…..There have been mass murders commited many times over and NO GUN was used……I am also sick of hearing people say (not you Jeremy) how easy it is to get hand guns and such….Well I sure would like to know where these people live, because it was a major hassel for me to aquire my CPL license..All the training, going before a gun board, and so on. Gun laws will not stop crimes, if we stop dumming down society that would be a good start on a law………Ignorance is what the problem is……

    • ibcamn

      NOT,those [comment has been edited] liberals have other nasty’s in mind,hell Obama get’s away from his own kid’s every chance he get’s,their just using those poor children and the grieving parent’s!and to millions of use who know better think it’s beyond wrong!and deep down inside you know it too,your just to [expletive deleted] to say it!(because you know big brother is watching you)

    • Robert Myles

      If you have fallen for Bloomberg’s latet scam to take guns away from the law abiding citizenry of this country i feel sorry for you. Yes this was a tragedy ad one that could and should have been prevented. the means to stop and or atleast minimize events like this are not by taking away citizen’s rights and rewritting the Constitution. Bloomberg has a crowd of well armed body gaurds around him at all times. In other words, it is ok for the filthy rich to have guns and body guards but not you “commoner’s. If you wish to live in servitude to the almighty dictator and the uberrich go do so. i instead will indeed cling to my gun’s my Constitution and my Bible

    • Gary

      Sadly it often appears that the generally accepted credo Americans have about automobiles is – Don’t learn how to drive, get a bigger truck!

    • Roy Fredrichsen

      In the 1930′s in order to make everybody safer a law was passed in Germany to remove ALL guns from the populace. Only the Police, Gestapo, the SS, and the army was allowed to have guns and we all know where that led. The problem in America is not the gun. It is the fact that in the last 4 major killings reported, the instigator was reportedly a mental case that was not in any treatment for his condition and was allowed access to a weapon. In his twisted thinking he thought he was justified in ridding the world of evil persons. So, the first thing anti-gun crowd goes to is the eradication of guns. Some of these people have never been faced with violence, i.e. robbery, burglary and have no idea what its like to be totally helpless against a criminal with a knife or gun. The only thing that will stop a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun. Therefore, it is a reasonable idea to have armed security guards where a crime is likely to occur. Why else do you see police in banks?

    • James C. Ferris

      I believe he means the acccidents will be worse in the light cars. The gun control is really stupid because the way to stop the mass killings has been known for Forty years and the congress should be abolished for not using it and saving the lives of hundreds of children and other people that have been killed in mass shootings. They had this problem in 1970 in Israel with Muslims killing kids in schools and they gave all the teachers 9mm hand guns and that solved the problem so they only loose one child per year while we loose about one hundred per year. The AR-15 that they want to outlaw is in every home in switzerland along with other assualt wapons and they have the lowests crime rate and MURDER rate on any other nation in the entire world so that is more BS by the communist law makers. What we should do is promote conceled carry and give any responsible person a 9mm hand gun that will get a cc permitt and we could have policeman on every corner of this country and crime would go way down but don’t count on that happing with the Communist Idiot’s we have in congress.

    • http://personalliberydigest big wyo

      did you see today that Feinstein is demanding all out confiscation. You cannot give an inch or they will take five miles.
      So much for he is not out to take your guns.
      Obummer is liar and thief and cannot be trusted . whatch what he does not what he says.

      There is alot of conflicting info about sandy hook we have no idea what actually happened there and may never.

    • Glorya

      What scares me is that Obama and the rest of Congress is not interested in protecting the children. If Obama cared about protecting the children then he would have stricter laws on violent video games, music, movies, and other violent materials as there are on gun control. Remember it was Obama’s Atty General who sold the weapons to the Drug Cartels in Mexico NOT the citizens of the USA. He acts more like a Dictator everyday with his if Congress won’t do it my way, then I will pass it or make it law another way. When did we STOP being a Democracy (I think it started around 2008)!!!! Would you agree?

      • Nick Czudy

        Gloria. Lets be accurate. Obama did not sell the weapons to Mexico. It was started in the previous George W administration and Obama came into power with it already in full swing. The Arizona laws, protected the straw buyers and prevented the ATF from following and arresting these middle men. After a year of trying to persecute Holder, the full report showed that Daryl Issa was just interested in scoring GOP brownie points, to do anything to implicate Eric Holder. It did not happen, because he was not behind it. It was squashed quickly when brought to his attention.
        Video games would infringe on the 1st amendment. It is a little stronger and more relevant than the 2nd. You are passing the buck.
        Obama seems to be the only one that is interested in the children and the economy. The do nothing congress only seem to be in the pocket of the NRA and sell more guns, and lets screw all Americans and raise everyone’s taxes so the wealthy can keep getting richer. The GOP congress is such a dismal mess of idiots. You should be able to defend your self with a few rifles, shotguns, hand guns. You will be able to live without assault weapons and large capacity mags.

        • Frank Kahn

          One more round with the non-patriotic Nick.

          I am not a constitutional scholar, I dont pretend to understand every little nuance of the document(s). I do know that your statement “Video games would infringe on the 1st amendment. It is a little stronger and more relevant than the 2nd.” is extremely wrong and biased.

          Every item in the Bill of Rights (1st ten amendments to the constitution) carries the exact same weight (authority) as every other item.

          “Relevant” would be a matter of opinion, which although you have a right to your opinion, carries no weight and has no authority.

          I was questioned by a detective once, I exercised my 5th amendment right to not answer any questions. I was arrested for failure to comply with his questioning and spent 30 days in jail. This detective apparently had the same opinion of the 5th amendment that you have about the 2nd. However, the ex-detective will remember for the rest of his life, how relevant the 5th amendment is.

          When the reason for the 2nd amendment happens, you will be forced to accept the relevance of it for the rest of your life.

          I would also suggest you recheck your facts about the fast and furious operation.

          • http://yahoo gator

            The 2nd Amendment protects the other Amendments, therefore protecting us from a tyranical government, that was the intention of the founding fathers. Our public education system has failed to profess this fact for some time; i wonder why? Could it be they don’t want you to know? We are BORN with these ‘unalienable rights’. They are not granted to us by the government.

          • Nick Czudy

            Gator. The 2nd amendment is a little ambiguous. I think that if they banned assault weapons and large mags, that it would not infringe at all to your right to have many other guns. After all they would all be better than a musket. Also there is about half of you that insist that having these guns is to allow you to stand up to a tyrannical government. This troubles me. Our government is a democratically elected government with a lot of checks and balances and a legal system to deal with a tyrannical government. It is not needed to have the population bear arms to deal with that. You fight a tyrannical government by who you vote into power. Another thing that bothers me is that does this attitude mean that if the right wing people on this site, are disappointed that Obama won and it in power, that you have the right to oppose him and his government by force, using your arms? Many of you have all sorts of opinions of how had this is for you. Does that mean that you will feel that this is a tyrannical government and therefore you will be justified to oppose it by force? This is a democracy. Democracies do not need the populace to be armed to oppress it.

          • Frank Kahn

            Actually, this is not a democracy, and if it was, there would be an even greater need for weapons to fight the tyranny of the government not less.

          • http://yahoo gator

            Frank, i think this is meant for cudzy. Actually the militia that was formed to fight the tyranny of britain were, farmers, bakers, butchers, blacksmiths, and other ‘working men’. Do you think those men would bring a knife to a gunfight? Hell no! I bet if they’d had access to ‘repeating arms’ such as Winchester 94, or an AR-15 for that matter, they’d left their muskets home with their wives. They weren’t fools! They brought the BEST, MOST CAPABLE WEAPON’S THEY HAD ACCESS TOO!

            grow a brain allready!

    • Robert Galloway

      The problem with lighter cars is not that they can go faster. The problem is, if there is one, that the lighter cars do not provide as good a protective cage as larger heavier ones. If a big heavy car collides with a smaller lighter one, the occupants of the lighter one usually get the short end. Bigger, heavier cars are still available. How many citizens buy their cars based on size/weight/crash testing? The argument about CAFE is correct but probably not legitimate in terms of “protecting” children. Sincerely, Robert H. Galloway

    • shocktrooper1984

      cyber NUKE flashy and all his friends.
      …end of story.

  • Vicki

    Sitting here musing about the total plan of the gun-grabbers it occurs to me that a significant part of the psychological warfare is the intent to make most of the populace meekly accept the authority of any one with a gun. Anyone. Be it the home invader or the home invader with DEA written on the shirt.

    Think about how the gun grabbers have framed the arguments including the parts about not resisting a criminal mugger, home invader or whatever.

    The entire populace being trained to follow orders. To be slaves.

    • Jeremy Leochner

      Vicki no one has tried to convince people to meekly accept the authority of a home invader with a gun or not resist a mugger. You can and should fight back to protect your house and your life. As I have said before keep a gun at home and learn self defense to fight off a mugger. As to the DEA. One: Why are they at your house if you have nothing to hid. 2:If you are innocent you have a court system and a press to fight with, you do not have to pull the trigger on ignorant or arrogant law enforcement officials.

      • czman75

        You haven’t been paying attention, police don’t need an invitation anymore to come into your home anytime they want. You are no longer innocent until proven guilty, if you post on Fb, if you blog about anything remotely anti-prezbo, etc. you are guilty of something and can be detained indefinitely.

        “the Right of the People to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.”.

      • John

        Jeremy, where have you been for the last forty years? The police are not your friends and the government is not here to help. Your “friends” on the police department are killing innocent people every day! Your argument about having “nothing to hide” is nauseating. It is the same argument by leftist idoelogues repeated over and over again. “Well why are you worried if you have nothing to hide”? In this country, our constitution says You are innocent until proven guilty! You are implying the Vickie is guilty of some crime because she wants to be free.

      • ibcamn

        hey,as for why the DEA may be at you’re house and if you have nothing to hide BS,try sitting at home with you’re boy’s and all of a sudden you have six big basturds in black crashing through you’re door screaming yelling telling you and the kids to hit the floor.all the crap and scare the [expletive deleted] outta the kids telling you you’re a peice of [expletive deleted] for endangering my kids,blah blah….im in cuff’s the kids in a squad car with some police woman telling me their going to child services and i will never have them back!!im telling the cops they got the wrong guy,for an hour…then a guy in a suit waltz’s in whispers in the dea agents ear then walk’s out the door.they start uncuff me and said their sorry about the mix up,they got the wrong house!!back then you couldn’t sue for this type of BS…they had all my weapons and it took a loooonnngg time to get them back and my kids now talk about it as funny,but then with tears it was not…dont tell me DEA does anything wrong!!it happens ALL the time.

      • Robert Smith

        Jeremy asks: “As to the DEA. One: Why are they at your house if you have nothing to hid.”

        Google “DEA invades wrong house.”

        Here is one: “Ninth Circuit to DEA: Putting a Gun to an 11-Year-Old’s Head Is Not OK

        Mike Riggs | June 18, 2012″

        It’s from: http://www.godlikeproductions.com/forum1/message1902145/pg1

        Rob

      • Jeremy Leochner

        First John I am only 23. Second I never said the government and police were friends. I just question the idea of assuming they are monsters oppressing people. Some officers and government officials genuinely desire to do their job and try to not interfere in peoples lives unnecessarily. I know some. As for the nauseating argument as you say I am sorry that is the way you feel. We need to reform the police. We need to prevent abuses. I am just trying to stay objective here. The police are not automatically the bad guy. They can be wrong. They can be misguided. But what can I say if the officer believes they are doing their job to catch bad guys. We should not give absolute trust to police. But we should not disregard them either. And I never implied or suggested Vicki was guilty of any thing. If it came across that way it was not my intention.

      • Jeremy Leochner

        Robert

        As to your first example mistaken going after someone does not automatically warrant any label of bad guy. Don’t get me wrong its a wrong move in all sense of the word. However I can imagine that the DEA agents believed that person was guilty of something. I am not saying what they did was right. However what can you do if you have evidence a person is guilty of a serious crime.

        As for the second. I agree whole heartedly that that was a dick move. No excuse for it. I will say shame on the DEA for that.

      • eddie47d

        John and Vickie both have the right to own a gun ( not resisting home invaders bull) so this continual insistence that you don’t proves you are the ones spreading untruths and fears.

      • TML

        Jeremy Leochner says “You can and should fight back to protect your house and your life. As I have said before keep a gun at home and learn self defense to fight off a mugger. As to the DEA. One: Why are they at your house if you have nothing to hid. 2:If you are innocent you have a court system and a press to fight with, you do not have to pull the trigger on ignorant or arrogant law enforcement officials.”

        You seems to acknowledge that the DEA are fallible, but you prescribe a very dangerous scenario. If no-knock raids, and knock & announce [and break in] raids were forbidden then your point may be valid. However, as long as such raids are practiced, it does nothing but place the residents of the home and the DEA themselves in grave danger. The most common instance is shooting the resident because it looked as though he/she was ‘going for a gun’, and may do exactly that if they thought those breaking in the door were ‘muggers’. The possibility of having the wrong house, threatens the lives of innocent people who may otherwise be trying to defense their home. And the reasoning for this is usually to avoid allowing the alleged suspect to get rid of alleged evidence, which does not justify the danger imposed by such raids. In this practice, the DEA are the bad guys. They violate the 4th Amendment right for a presumed greater good.

      • Jeremy Leochner

        TML I do recognize that the DEA can make mistakes and immoral decisions. I do not think its right for them to charge into a house that is filled with innocent people. And I think its the height of stupidity for a law enforcement officer to shoot someone who is not threatening them.

        I guess I just try and see the other side of the argument. Like you mentioned when you talked about preventing suspects from destroying evidence. Does the danger validate the storming of innocent peoples homes no. But is it a real danger yes. So what to do I do not know. I just don’t like to assume things about people-whether good or bad. I try not to see the police as automatically good guys which they are not. But I also try not to see them as automatically bad guys which they are also not. My point is no one is automatically good or bad even if they are wearing a badge or government uniform.

      • Vicki

        Jeremy Leochner says:
        “Vicki no one has tried to convince people to meekly accept the authority of a home invader with a gun or not resist a mugger.”

        The beauty of the internet is that it takes only seconds to invalidate a proof by bald assertion. Since you used the dreaded “no one” I need only find ONE example to invalidate your point.

        “If you are caught in a mugging despite your precautions, the safest thing to do is to comply with the mugger’s requests. ”
        http://www.wisegeek.com/what-should-i-do-in-a-mugging.htm

        Good thing too cause I am only allowed one link per post. (Unless I wait for moderation which is sometimes a bit slow)

      • Vicki

        Jeremy Leochner says:
        “As I have said before keep a gun at home and learn self defense to fight off a mugger.”

        I have learned martial arts. Proper firearm handling is one of those arts I studied. Being a bit smaller than the average mugger the use of a firearm is quite a bit more efficient than hand to hand combat.

        Jeremy Leochner says:
        “As to the DEA. One: Why are they at your house if you have nothing to hid.”

        Cause they are run by bureaucrats. Bureaucrats are not known for their clerical accuracy.
        http://www.cato.org/raidmap

      • John W. Howard

        The words “if you have nothing to hid” have been over used by oppressors for centuries. Have you ever heard of the fourth amendment to the constitution?

        It pisses me off the people of this country forget why this country is so different from the rest of the world. When the morons took over this nation; (starting in 1860); the rights our fore fathers fought so hard for in 1776, would be surrendered by the whinny spoiled brats those brave men left this nation in the hands of. It’s sad for the men who have shed blood for those RIGHTS to be sso dishonored in our day and age. I can see why Obama would be God’s judgment on the United States of Amercia.

        John W Howard

      • Jeremy Leochner

        Got me Vicki. I was asking for it by using the phrase no one. You are right there are those. However I hardly consider one or a few websites to measure up to the level of “significant part of the psychological warfare is the intent to make most of the populace
        meekly accept the authority of any one with a gun. Anyone.”. Who exactly for the sake of argument is waging this psychological warfare. And this time could you provide someone or some website that many people have heard off. Basically can you find someone actively trying to convince people to meekly accept authority from anyone with a gun who holds some clout and has real influence.

    • To Tell The Truth

      Yes Vicki. The first thing dictators do is to disarm the populance they rule. This isn’t about the children, it’s about perfecting Obozo’s imperial takeover of the US

      • hipshotpercusion

        The politicians creed..”On my honor to do my best to help myself, and screw the rest.”

        Politics…what does that mean? Poli meaning the many. Tics, blood sucking parasites. any questions?

      • Ed Mack

        Vicki:
        The way our government operates today, you can’t really trust them and rule out their taking over our country. How many “rights” have they already taken without your even noticing until you start thinking about it? They will do that by first disarming the population. We have around10 billion hunters in this country most of which will NOT give up their guns wuthout a fight. How many others own guns just for hobby purposes?You cannot rule out the number of crooks and others who may have guns. Can we rule out the politicians who are trying to take ours but have guns themselves?

    • Nadzieja Batki

      Jeremy L.,don’t make yourself any more a Liar than you already are? Listen to the preaching of O when the Conn. tragedy occurred? Or is it you cannot comprehend what was said?

      • Jeremy Leochner

        I haven’t listened too it yet. I will try too. I am not Obama so I do not think I am a liar. If Obama supports a ban I will disagree. If he disagrees with me on gun control it is what is. But I still have my beliefs.

      • eddie47d

        Nadzieja can’t comprehend that those on the right are always in the pulpit preaching whether they are right or not. I’ll never expect her to point that out because she is a member of that “clergy”.

  • Vicki

    The OP writes:
    “They don’t care about children. They’re disingenuous.”

    Of course they don’t care about the children. If they did care they would not make the children go into Gun-Free-Fire zones.

    • Jeremy Leochner

      Vicki. There is and was no way to predict that a madman would come shooting up a school. While it certainly happens and needs to be prevented and protected against there is no way to know what schools will or will not have shootings take place. Part of the desire of the anti gun lobby is to teach people to not use guns to solve their problems. One of the problems of demented people like the Sandy Hook shooter is they think they need a gun to solve their problems. How they develop this idea I do not know. What I do know is that there are countless stories of children and teenagers bringing guns to school because they think they need them for protection. Examples include:

      http://www.detroitnews.com/article/20121218/SCHOOLS/212180375/

      http://english.ruvr.ru/2012_12_19/Utah-sixth-grader-brings-gun-to-school/

      http://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/news/local/Upper-Darby-Students-Guns-134633263.html

      http://chicago.cbslocal.com/2012/06/08/teens-charged-after-bringing-loaded-gun-to-school/

      http://content.usatoday.com/communities/ondeadline/post/2012/05/bullied-gay-teen-brings-stun-gun-to-school-faces-expulsion/1#.UNFz1qyz2UQ

      The whole point of making “children go into Gun-Free-Fire zones” is to keep children away from guns. To teach children not to use guns to solve things. Because other wise what is to stop for instance any of the children in the stories I showed from using their guns against the bullies they fear. We have to get children away from guns. And its difficult to do that while we our selves have guns. Its hypocrisy to tell a child you do not need a gun to feel safe while you yourself carry a gun to feel safe. Especially when there is no danger. You cant crazy proof the world and you cannot base security and preparation around the worst possible scenario. I am all for pepper spray or tasers or even stun guns. And I would certainly encourage all teachers to be trained in self defense. Self defense training can help instill the calm and proactive state of mind to plan some sort of escape or defense in such a high stress situation. And not for nothing schools have drills and contingency plans for such things. If they don’t I would suggest all schools should be required to develop them. My point is develop plans and prepare. But prepare and develop according to the immediacy and level of threat. I live in California where Hurricanes and Tornadoes are not very likely to happen. As such it would be rather pointless of us to have say a storm cellar in our school. Call us unprepared but we are probably more likely to face a earth quake or flood. In fact I would say that the chances of a school shooting are probably only slightly more then the chances of there being a tornado or hurricane in California. I do not know so I cant be sure. All I am saying is you cannot predict crazy. You can never truly know if someone is willing, capable or planning to commit such an act. And even then if they do not know anyone at a particular school its basically a craps shoot where they will strike. I am not saying it does not happen and I know that when it does it is tragic and unforgivable and unforgettable. But I still feel the chance of a school shooting is not so great that we should start arming teachers. I think self defense classes, teachers carrying pepper spray or tasers, and finally shooting drills and having contingency plans for such an event are the proper course to take.

      • Vicki

        Jeremy Leochner writes:
        “The whole point of making “children go into Gun-Free-Fire zones” is to keep children away from guns. To teach children not to use guns to solve things.”

        Worked really well for the 20.

        If I were a (surviving) youngster I would learn from that event that today’s adults are incompetent fools and I better pay attention to the founding fathers of the USA. I would get and learn how to use (and hide from crazy adults) a firearm.

      • Jeremy Leochner

        With all due respect Vicki. I do not believe that children not trusting their parents and grabbing and hiding weapons from them is a good sign. And I do not think that encouraging people to bring guns to school is going to prevent another school shooting. My guess is its more likely to bring one on.

    • Kinetic1

      Vicki,
      Ah yes, if only the teacher had a loaded gun in her desk. No, that might be dangerous with all those kids running around. Locked in her desk, yes that’s it. No, it’s unlikely she could have gotten to it in time. Strapped to her hip at all times! Yes, that would do it.

      Please, all this talk about the need for more guns in every nook and cranny is ridiculous. Look at the numbers, America suffers more gun related deaths then those nations with strict gun laws. Ignoring suicides to avoid claims that they skew the numbers, the murder by gun rate (per capita) in America is 4 times that of Canada, 6 times that of Switzerland and about 85 (yes, eighty five – 3.4 as opposed to .04) times that of Great Britain. If only Brits had more guns on the street, maybe they could get that number even lower, right?

      • Michael J.

        Kinetic1,
        We fought a war to defeat the British, now you advocate being more like them?
        Your weak analogy is a Pathetic1, look to areas like Chicago or Detroit where strengent gun laws are enacted, yet gun violence is the highest. Then ask yourself why MSM reporting of such issues never seem to reach the fever pitch as is the case in Newtown, Aurora etc?

      • http://tigrebleau.wordpress.com tigrebleau

        When seconds count, the police are only minutes away. Violent crime has declined steadily in the US since 1999, especially since the expiration of the assault weapons ban in 2004. Every venue that has permitted concealed carry has seen crime rates decline, sometimes dramatically (Florida especially). A school administrator with a quick-access drawer safe for a handgun, and the training to use it would be able to confront an armed intruder within seconds. When confronted, the kind of loonies who do mass shootings almost always flee (or kill themselves).

      • http://www.facebook.com/patrick.livingston.90 Patrick Livingston

        I think that would be terrible mistake to arm the teachers and have guns in the classroom, lets have a trained Police Officer or Security Guard in every school as a deterrent and real security for our children, the old days of hiding under the desk and locking the doors, waiting for help will not save anyone or save any lives !!!

      • czman75

        What is scary is, you probably really believe what you are spouting! Death rate in America are far lower than any country that has banned weapons, England, Australia, China to name a few…
        An armed society is a polite society. Stop drinking the kool-aid!

      • John

        Kinetic1, in 10th grade many years ago my German teachers purse fell open. Out onto the table top spilled a loaded .45 automatic. What a great country!

      • Nadzieja Batki

        Livingston, let’s create more police. Why not? Emotions are running out of control so don’t do any thinking Crime is less in schools than it was in the late 50s and 60s and 70s. Why not so much attention to what occurred in the inner city schools then and even now. Bloomberg is a predatory opportunist.

    • eddie47d

      That’s a new low for you Vickie. It is about the children and its also about responsible adults and not getting adults killed too! After every mass shooting we hear the same old crap that nothing can be done and we have to wait because the emotions are raw. Well we aren’t buying it. Little was done after Columbine and the Aurora theater shooting and little will be done this time unless the American people get a backbone and demand efforts to confront the problems. Its not just going to be about mental illness although that is a good start. I never did like the phony hyped up violence in the movies but that is what America loves. Good luck with doing anything about that and the immorality of Hollywood. Easy access to rapid fire weapons is a big part of the problem and gun owners are just going to have to suck up that fact and take it on the chin. America glorifies killing and these mass shootings always come back to those rapid firing weapons. What better way to go out than in a blaze of glory with as many casualties as possible. The Klebolds,Harris’s and Lanza obviously didn’t have flight training so they couldn’t command a plane and they didn’t have bomb making experience (although Harris tried) so they relied on the next best thing. Semi-Automatic weapons. They are what did the most damage and caused the most deaths and since young peoples minds aren’t always fully capable of understanding the consequences then responsible adults should make every effort to keep them away from ANY mass killing weapon. Since in the Lanza case an adult bought the weapons legally then apparently not enough adults are very responsible.We can’t expect them to do the right thing with their own children let along others peoples children so its time to take the semi-automatic issue head on and stop pussy footing around.

      • stevenl

        eddie 47 d
        Tim Mcveigh did not use a gun to kill all those people In oklahoma city, in fact it was possession of a handgun that caused his arrest and ultimate conviction.

        Anybody with a basic knowledge of chemistry can Go to the Home Depot or Lowes and by enough materials to make an IED.
        You can kill more people with ammonia and chlorine tablets than you ever could with a firearm.Once again, basic chemistry.

      • http://www.facebook.com/patrick.livingston.90 Patrick Livingston

        In that horrible attack on the Murrah building , he was carrying a Glock 45 pistol with a high capacity magazine, the feds called me on a gun trace and I fingered him just in time, before they were going to release him , the guns laws we have in affect work !!!

      • John

        eddie47, if you want to solve the problem ban the CIA,FBI and other governmental agencies programming these people. Take away their toys, neuroleptic, and psychotropic drugs and these killings will go away!

      • eddie47d

        Steven L : I never said McVeigh used a gun to bring down the Murrah building only that he had one and probably in case someone tried to stop him doing his deed. John: I’m just as concerned about the GOA and the NRA with their false propaganda and conspiracy theories. They are equally nauseating with their biovating diatribes.

  • Harold Olsen

    There is a war on children by the left. They want to kill children in the womb and if they fails, they’ll get them after they are born. Here in Washington state there is a movement to legalize pedophilia. Several months ago on one of the network affiliates’ websites, there was a story in which someone was quoted as saying “Once gay marriage is legalized, we’ll get sex with children legalized.” The network affiliate ran an opinion piece supporting it. I criticized the piece and got booted from the site. They deleted by user ID and password so I could not log on.

    • eddie47d

      I’m not buying that Harold! Washington State is not trying to legalize pedophiles or bestiality. One is nothing more than child abuse and the other is animal abuse and it won’t happen.

      • Karolyn

        Either that came from some deranged person or it was just another rumor. Like pedophilia would ever even be CONSIDERED legitimate. Another extremist tactic to incite and instill paranoia.

    • Flashy

      Jeesh Harold…I live right across the river from Washington, and own property in Washington. you are so lyin’ …. Unbelievable what the extremists will conjure up. And yet…they now want us to believe less gun laws, and more people having access to guns, is the solution/

      remember, these are the same folks who insist President Obama is not US born, a secret Muslim, has an agenda to usurp the next election and declare marial law, and on and on … Oh, the FEMA camps, the “death panels”, UN Agenda 21, …

      Yeah….and on this, you inist you are just as corect.

      Stop the insanity. Gun owners have shown they ARE NOT responsible. and have no want or unable to be responsible.

      Fine. Then live with what you wrought and what will be imposed without your input. . Time to stop the insanity….

      • momo

        Flashy says:” Unbelievable what the extremists will conjure up”

        Gee, flashman is into self description.

      • Patriot1776

        Flashy, just how is it that “gun owners have shown themselves irresponsible”? How many of the shooters in any of the mass murders have been legal gun owners? What percentage of legal gun owners are responsible for any mass murder or for that matter any premeditated murder? The fact is the shooter in Connecticut didn’t own the guns used, but stole them. The problem with gun control laws is that criminals do not obey laws. Your statement that all gun owners are irresponsible is more of your generalized liberal garbage.

      • carlee44

        Flashy again and a few others here: Where do you get the idea there are no fema camps, death panels,gun runners or whatever. Of course there are.If you read a lot of different articles from different ideologies you can see in special wording like in obamacare for instance.Health and”End of life consultayion “after age 70. My husband is 75 and probably outworks you any day of the week.He is still very productive, just as farmers work 24/7 and into 80s and 90s. but they would all be left to die under obamacare, so we should trust him to care about children when he is an advocate for abortion and worse partial birth abortion?If yoyu have guns keep ‘em close. If I was young I would buy one.

      • Flashy

        “Where do you get the idea there are no fema camps, death panels,gun runners or whatever.” <— Carlee

        Ummmm…because there aren't any and it's made up to take money from your pocket to donate to "the cause" ?

        as to your comment concerning 'death panels'. a) it states consultation. A voluntary access to people who want counseling as the door they will walk through approaches. B) They have such consultation in Oregon…and they are very busy as terminally ill and those in the upper ages seek out the counseling and learn and are able to calmly think through the final stage of Life. c) you are a victim of a con game to instill fear in you so you will bend to their warped reasoning and give them your money

      • hipshotpercusion

        Flashy, you are so full of crap! Gun owners not responsible? For your information, as per the FBI and the DOJ violent crime with firearms has actually declined. Also, over 2.5 million times a year, a firearm is used to stop a crime, or protect someone from harm. Most times they are not even fired. And, for your edification, Police officers kill more innocent people then trained civilians that carry guns. If you need more information about it , read ‘The Second Amendment Primer’ by Attorney Les Adams.

      • eddie47d

        Flashy: Its “funny” they never want to talk about all the lies that Carlee44 brought up. Some of them are brainwashed beyond repair on those subjects.

      • Frank Kahn

        Flashy, you say so many things that are untrue or so wildly slanted that it is hard to stay on your plane of thought. Yesterday I tried to respond to your really long post on gun control, but unfortunately my browser stopped responding half way through it.

        This time I will keep my response short. You say that gun owners have proven themselves to not be responsible. Responsible for what? For killing innocent people? For not wanting to give up their constitutional right to bear arms? Or, is it that, they refuse to agree with your insane ideas about gun ownership?

      • eddie47d

        Was Adams mother responsible No and “heck” no!

    • Jeremy Leochner

      I am on the left and I wage no war on children. If anyone is proposing legalizing pedophilia they are as much my enemy as they are yours. No one on the left or right supports some thing as beastly as pedophilia.

    • Robert Smith

      Harold, I googled, “Once gay marriage is legalized, we’ll get sex with children legalized.”

      I found NOTHING.

      On that basis I simply can’t believe there is any validity to your blathering.

      Rob

  • Michael J.

    As horrific as the tragedy that has unfolded in Newtown is, public contemplation of government copability made possible by recent unfolding events is by far more chilling.

  • Warren Cohen

    If they cared about children then Eric Holder would be charged with manslaughter for the children that were killed in Mexico by the guns supplied to the drug cartels by the BATF during Operation Fast and Furious.

    • http://tigrebleau.wordpress.com tigrebleau

      Holder’s guns are still showing up at crime scenes where innocent Mexicans are being killed. He should be chained to a Mexican jail bed.

      • stevenl

        Very well said!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

      • Robert Smith

        Tiger says: “Holder’s guns are still showing up at crime scenes where innocent Mexicans are being killed. ”

        Really? Where can I find ANY information about that?

        Rob

    • eddie47d

      If that can be proven then all involved should be prosecuted including ALL the gun dealers who actually did transfer weapons into Mexico. Maybe they should be lined up and shot with guns from their own stores. Wouldn’t that be appropriate of coarse after a fair trial.

      • momo

        eddie47d, you’re obviously overworked from signing all those petitions. Do you think Mexican cartel members actually go into a gun store and buy a gun? They pay someone a couple hundred bucks to puchase the weapons for them. Then they find some other person who needs money to smuggle the weapon across the border. Gun delaers didn’t transfer any weapons into Mexico, but the ATF let a bunch of them walk acrioss the border.

        http://washington.cbslocal.com/2012/12/18/cbs-news-fast-and-furious-gun-found-at-site-where-mexican-beauty-queen-killed/

      • http://www.facebook.com/patrick.livingston.90 Patrick Livingston

        The ATF promoted and paid gun dealers to sale these guns to the cartel in order to try and trace them into Mexico, the gun dealers were cooperating with the Feds !!!

      • eddie47d

        Not all gun dealers (just over 100 within 50 miles from the border) were “cooperating” with the Feds. Why do you think the Feds went down there in the first place. It was to stop the rouge dealers. Admittedly fast and furious was a dubious and outright stupid plan but that doesn’t exonerate those dealer either. By the way MOMO I never said the cartels went into the stores and purchase them on their own. There are plenty of traffickers willing to do their dirty work on both sides of the border.

      • JC

        eddie, how predictable of you to keep trying to spread your lie about gun dealers in the SW.
        The gun dealers were the ones who tried to report and STOP Obama’s fast and furious scam. Unfortunately they were reporting it to the very people who were coordinating this murderous and irresponsible government sponsored scheme…and were then cooreced into playing along.
        You really are a lying SOS my communist little friend.

  • Dave67

    Just like the religious nuts using this to promote their religious dogma agenda as well.

    This is not about guns… Its about our society, responsibility, the rule of law and values…

    We need to look at ourselves as a society and ask why does the United States have 80% of the world’s deaths by guns. Sensible gun control and regulation is only one part of the equation. We need a review of our value system and its extension through the media. Until we honestly look at ourselves and make changes, this kind of thing and the 31 deaths that happen every day due to guns will continue.

    • OneGuess

      Where do you get your so-called “facts”?

    • BLH557

      Can you say “Minority Report”? That’s what you’re advocating. The ONLY way to stop these Crazies is to get ‘em before they get us. How can that be accomplished? Well, let’s set up a commission of well-meaning leftist crazies to decide who gets offed before they commit crimes. Maybe we can get ‘em before they’re born… oops, already happening.

      It seems super hypocritical that the party of killing children before and immediately after birth are the same ones wanting to withhold protection from them after birth as well.

      • Robert Smith

        From BLH557: “Maybe we can get ‘em before they’re born… oops, already happening.”

        Check out: Donohue-Levitt hypothesis

        It in some ways supports your “claim.”

        You can find details at: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legalized_abortion_and_crime_effect

        The other theory is that criminals are getting older and are in jail, dead, etc.

        I think it’s both to some degree, except that it isn’t “babies” being killed. Some women who figured out that it wasn’t time for them to be mothers yet and took responsibility for their actions and had an abortion.

        Rob

    • Dave67

      BLH557,

      Do you have a device to figure out who the “crazies” are? Are you H.G Wells and own a time machine?

      What you say makes no sense.

      Sensible gun laws and training are only a small piece to solving the problem of gun violence but the conservatives want to make it seem that is the ONLY area in which liberals are addressing and want to have addressed to fix this issue. Mental Health, drugs, violence as acceptable in our culture, the media, the lack of personal responsibility and morality all need addressing. Unless we do that, the violence continues…

      People may stick their heads in the sand all they wish but the reality is this is a 3-D issue in our society, gun laws alone do not fix the issue, you somehow getting the “crazies” before they get us is laughable.

    • ibcamn

      you gotta remember all sides to these coins in play to all problems on gun issues,you can drive yourself crazy,most gun crimes are handguns that are stolen from homes or stores.then you got rifles that are dragged into the same issue.two differant things.there are so many differant ways to look at this thing that most lawmakers just think theres one answer and its not that simple.ammo comes into play,look at Preckwinkle is trying to do in Illinoise,tax the gun 25bucks and 5cents on each round of ammo,thats BS,but they think law abiding people should pay MORE taxes for crimes others commit.its not a one thing fixes all but thats what gov’t is brainwashing themselves to think!too many factors for these numbnutz to think about to do any good.they just make it worse!

    • hipshotpercusion

      Dave67, at last count, there are an estimated 20,000 gun control laws at the Federal, State and local level, and not one of them does anything to stop crime. The only people affected are law abiding tax paying Americans with no inclination to commit heinous acts like the one committed in Newtown, CN

    • eddie47d

      Sure there are thousands of gun laws scattered across this nation but the NRA has actively watered those state laws down where they are now meaningless. Since they want to poke their nose into any sensible new law and handcuff anyone who does so then maybe we need a strong nation law with alittle backbone in it. .

      • ranger09

        Eddie, I sure would like to meet you in person, Just to see if you are Real

  • http://dobyblue.wordpress.com dobyblue

    How many mass school shootings were there before 1994?

    • czman75

      More importantly, how many happened after 1994…?!?

      • http://dobyblue.wordpress.com dobyblue

        I think that was implied with the question. When you look at the number of shootings at schools in the history of the USA, in shootings where there were at least two deaths, 35 shootings out of 46 occurred AFTER the Gun-Free Schools Act of 1994.

      • Tom

        How many happened after 1994? … that’s lame. Why has so many happened in recent history. In the 1800′s most school children carried guns to school – no mass murders happened. What’s different now? – No Bible or common morailty taught in schools; in the 1800′s abortion and homsexuality were unspeakable abominations. There were no pregnant cheerleaders jumping around in front of their peers. Let’s make guns illegal – that worked pretty well with alcohol in the 1920′s; it’s really working well with drugs now. Another difference is there were not as many touchy-feely, simple-minded village idiots like yourself.

      • eddie47d

        Before 1994 there weren’t so many feeble minded gun crazies who ran around carrying semi-automatic weapons either Tom. The idiots on the pro-gun side allowed those semi-automatic weapons to be sold in every part of our country and to anyone who wanted one. To them they weren’t any different than buying a dozen Krispy Cream Donuts and now our nation has to live with their insanity and the phony needs for such weapons. You got what you wished for now sit back and enjoy the killings.

        • http://dobyblue.wordpress.com dobyblue

          Eddie, are you saying that before 1994 semi-automatic weapons weren’t allowed to be sold, or are you saying that crazy people didn’t exist until after 1994?

      • Karolyn

        Tom – “In the 1800s most kids carried guns to school”???? Where did you get that from? Families were fortunate to have one gun, and dad had that one!

      • BLH557

        This is actually a reply to karolyn.

        In the 1970′s I used to take my double barreled 12 ga to high school, lock it in my school locker and go hunting with it after school. In one instance I even brought it to school as a prop in a play, OKLAHOMA! No one called the law, no murders or crimes were committed and the principal knew about it.

        Guns don’t jump off of shelves and kill people… or other guns.

      • BLH557

        Reply to Eddie:

        Actually, Eddie, the facts are that gun violence committed by criminals has decreased steadily over at least the past seven years and mostly in areas that have the most lax gun laws. Notice how you never hear of someone shooting up a gun store or gun show? The “Crazies” are the ones who ignore facts. Your logic is framed by a warped and ill-informed imagination stoked by the MSM fires of manipulation. In other words, you’re an ignorant patsy… spoken in the most sincere respect I can muster.

        What hasn’t decreased is the number of law-abiding people who have protected themselves, their property and families by shooting or threatening to shoot intruders, robbers, burglars, muggers, etc.

        Gun-free zones are nothing more than invitations to shooting galleries for crazies and murderous thugs.

      • eddie47d

        The last time I looked today you still have absolute rights to protect your family from muggings,home invasions, your properties and such so you are blowing the same old diatribe from the right. If you continue to endorse overkill then that is what the “criminals” will also want to do. I don’t want to arm the criminals anymore than I would want guns on every street corner or at least for anyone to have the ability to commit a mass killing.

    • Robert Smith

      You ask the wrong question: “How many mass school shootings were there before 1994?”

      How many kids were killed by bombings in the South and by nuts at the Mura building?

      Ohhhhhh, and it was by racist nut cases from the extreme right.

      Rob

  • http://www.facebook.com/patrick.livingston.90 Patrick Livingston

    It’s ashamed that Bloomberg is playing politics after this terrible tragedy in Conn, trying to push his anti-gun agenda, new gun control laws would of had no affect concerning this attack, he stole the guns, we need to address the real problem, we have no security in place to protect our children in these “Gun free zones”, we need to put armed Police Officers or Security Guards in every school as a deterrent ! this would save lives and protect our children !

    • eddie47d

      The thing is Conservative minded taxpayers would never approve a budget for police or private security guards.(No new taxes is their motto) Besides those police would be the first target for anyone trying to commit any dubious act. I would agree that at least two volunteers in the office have a hidden weapon somewhere unbeknown to any intruder as long as they are trained for such a task and no further dollars would be involved.

    • stevenl

      For 20 years or more that I know of the high school where my son went to has always had an armed police officer on duty.

      • Flashy

        What high school was that? this i have to check and see….I don’t believe it.

      • momo

        What fantasy world do you live in flashman? The local school district has its own police force and a cop at every school.

      • Nadzieja Batki

        Thanks momo, I was about to say the same thing. Flashy must not get around outside otherwise he would see usually white school police cars, and gee whiz Flashy they even have the school police logo on each side of the car so even you couldn’t miss them if you were looking.

      • Flashy

        I’ll ask again..what school district has a policy which armed police are assigned in the schools ?

      • eddie47d

        Sure some schools have police officers yet some can’t afford them. We have a couple of schools that I know of that have police cars parked near the front door. The thing is the kids kid about it because no one uses it and no cop is inside. Nothing but a decoy so neither is right or wrong on cops in school. .

      • Robert Smith

        I’m sorry Flashy, back off on this one. You are totally off base.

        Police in schools are common-place.

        “Police agencies have long provided services to schools.† It has only been in the past two decades, however, that assigning police officers to schools on a full-time basis has become a widespread practice.1, †† An estimated one-third of all sheriffs’ offices and almost half of all municipal police departments assign nearly 17,000 sworn officers to serve in schools.2 Moreover, nearly half of all public schools have assigned police officers.”

        http://www.popcenter.org/Responses/school_police/print/

        Rob

    • hipshotpercusion

      Eddie is an absolute idiot. Semi auto weapons have been around since the late 1800s. Maybe Eddie should pick up a history book and read it, instead of watching the mindless drivel that comes from the Idiot Box in the living room!

      • eddie47d

        Folks were killed for a variety of reasons back then too but maybe it has something to do with our continual gun culture so thanks for pointing that out. There was the Mountain Meadow Massacre when citizens took the law into their own hands. (oh those brave citizens?). There were countless number of Indian tribes slaughtered too and the gun helped accomplish that too. Guns don’t always equal bravery by any stretch of the immagination. Now its just as terrible but for different reasons.

    • ranger09

      Pat, When i went to school the gates and doors were left open, The only Peaceofficers we had was a sheriffs deputy once in a while, But in an emergency we could muster 100 able bodied men with their own weapons in less than an hour, and most were ex military trained.Maybe we had more sanity in those days, Well one thing for sure we all know we have more Disturbed Minds, more criminals,and more Gangs today than we have ever had, Heck we even have More Policemen, But they are mostly overpaid revenue Agents
      I have carried a firearm since i was 10 on the ranch and in vehicles and on the roads,Most all the farmers and Ranchers did the same, most of the Business owners did the same. First time i was Deputized i was 16, helped a deputy set up a road block looking for a felon, And yes i had my 30-30. And you know the biggest crime i can remember was petty theft by 2 kids. But you know the differance then and now those 2 kids got to see what a jail cell with bars looked like, hours later they were released to their parents WITH a date to go in front of the Justice, The Justice reprimanded the Kids and the Parents, The kids were told that if ever back in this court room they would spend 6 monts in a reformatory, and that the parents would be fined for Child Neglect.believe me these kids got the message and so did the Parents. A heck of a lot different than our patty patty Justice system we have to day. I have served with Pride and Honor, But i guess that was the way i was raised. And when it got to the point i could no longer serve with Pride and Honor, Thats when i walked away.

  • rick

    OH OH OH,,,,There are thousands of deaths every year because of drunk or stupid drivers…..Therefore, WE MUST GET RID OF CARS !!!!!!

    • http://tigrebleau.wordpress.com tigrebleau

      In case you hadn’t noticed, this is where the left’s Agenda 21 is taking us, so your comment is ironically more correct than you thought, witness Bloomberg’s war on 16 oz sodas, table salt, etc. We are just lab rats to the progressives, who must be tightly controlled for our own good and their experiment results, because they are so much smarter and more compassionate and virtuous. Forget personal accountability for actions and consequences, their only concern is saving us from ourselves.

      • eddie47d

        Where is the personal responsibility of the soda drink companies who push those 16 oz sodas on folks. They are out to make money and have zero accountability to consumers. Once the consumer is hooked on larger drinks the fix is in because the consumer will ALWAYS look for the best deal at the moment. Companies have sold us a bill of goods for decades and their marketing strategies are working. Some people will see an add in the paper for the biggest sale ever and run down and buy things they don’t even need. We are hooked and like magic we fall for it every time not even stopping to think there will be the same big sale the next week and the next.

      • John

        Well said tigrebleau.

  • Warrior

    I’m not sure which phrase is catchier, “Tax the Rich” or “Thou Shall Not Kill”? Maybe, we could receive an answer from our “esteemed” leaders. Forward!

    • hipshotpercusion

      Warrior, actually, it is “Thou shalt not do murder.”

      • Nadzieja Batki

        It is a sequential activity starting first with the thought, so you are right hipshotpercusion.

  • Cashpockets

    We have had guns in America for hundred of years and until recently nothing like this has ever happened in the USA.
    This should tell you that the problem is not with guns.
    Taking away people’s guns is much like a Doctor treating only the symptoms of a disease and not the cause of the ailment.

    The problem is in the mind of the Killer, not the gun in their hand.
    If they manage to outlaw guns, then only the Police and Criminals will have them.
    I don’t think the Police can protect everyone from the Criminals, since they can’t manage to do it now.
    Outlaw guns and Criminals will have a Field Day making “The People” into victims.

    • http://tigrebleau.wordpress.com tigrebleau

      Court cases have confirmed that the police do NOT have a legal obligation to protect us from anything. Their obligation is to respond to crimes, gather evidence, apprehend perpetrators, and do paperwork. Liberals and progressives do not want you to think that you are accountable for your own safety (because that would require individual initiative and judgement), but you are. So learn some self-defense skills (from an instructor, not a video), acquire and learn to use a firearm safely. Nothing says “get the [expletive deleted] out of my house” like the sound of racking the slide of a shotgun or pistol.

    • Dave67

      BS… WE have a long tradition of killing in this country since the advent of the gun and the glorification and the fame addiction of killing we crave. Below is just a partial list…

      Portland, Ore.: A masked gunman opens fire in a crowded mall on Tuesday, killing two and seriously injuring a third before turning the gun on himself. Cops say killer’s assault weapon jammed, preventing further carnage.

      Oak Creek, Wis.: A white supremacist shoots six people and a responding policeman at a Sikh temple before shooting himself in the head in August 2012.

      Aurora, Colo.: Lone gunman kills 12 and injures 58 at a July 2012 screening of “The Dark Knight.”

      Oakland, Calif.: A former student at a Christian college fatally shoots seven people and injures three in April 2012.

      Copley Township, Ohio: A man in a family dispute uses his handgun to shoot and kill his girlfriend and six others in August 2011.

      Geneva, Ala.: Eleven victims, ages 18 months to 74 years old, are killed by a lone gunman in a violent family feud in March 2009.

      Omaha, Neb.: A 19-year-old man shoots nine people at a department store in December 2007 before cops kill him.

      Blacksburg, Va.: A student at Virginia Tech kills 32 classmates and wounds 25 before committing suicide in April 2007.

      Red Lake, Minn.: A 16-year-old boy kills 11 people, including his grandfather and his grandfather’s girlfriend, in a shooting spree in March 2005.

      Columbus, Ohio: A deranged fan shoots a Pantera guitarist at a concert as he performs onstage, then fires at fans, killing four people in December 2004.

      Wash., D.C.: Two deranged snipers go on a spree, killing 10 people around D.C. and Virginia in Oct. 2002.

      Columbine, Colo.: Two senior students invade their school in April 1999, killing 12 students and one teacher and injuring 21, before committing suicide.

      Killeen, Texas: An unemployed man drives a truck through a packed cafeteria and fatally shoots 23 people and injures 20 before killing himself in October 1999.

      Jacksonville, Fla.: A man angry over a repossessed car storms into the agency in June 1990 and over two days shoots 11 of its 86 employees before killing himself.

      San Diego, CA July 18 1984 USA 21 killed

      Hamilton, OH U.S. March 30 1975 11 killed

      New Orleans, LA Jan. 1/7 1973 U.S. 9 people killed

      Douglas, WY USA Jan. 21-29 1958 Lincoln & Bennet, NE 10 people killed

      Camden, NJ USA Sep. 6 1949 13 people killed

      Fairfield, CA U.S. Aug. 22 1928 11 people killed

      Bath Township, MI May 18 1927 U.S. 44 people killed

      We need a change in attitude in this country.

      • http://dobyblue.wordpress.com dobyblue

        How many of those were “Gun Free Zones”?
        It’s time to recognize that criminals and mentally deranged people don’t care about gun free zones.
        Stop the pharmaceutical stranglehold on the health care system, get the kids of psychiatric mediciations. The US has seven-fold more children on psychiatric medications than any other country, not surprisingly in almost all cases of mass school shootings in the last 18 years the person committing the crime has been a) seeing a psychiatrist and b) been on psychiatric medications since they were young, probably because someone diagnosed them with some BS medical condition because at 5 years old they wanted to play in class and not pay attention.

      • Dave67

        Doby,

        Not that many and you are right… too many med being prescribed without an inkling of what they can do because everyone’s physiology is different. I believe drugs are part of the issue. Its also our desensitization of violent acts. There are many factors that go into the problem and gun laws alone will not solve them.

      • BLH557

        BTW, Dave; The guy in Oregon offed himself AFTER being held at GUN POINT by a licensed citizen, not because his gun jammed.

      • Cashpockets

        By recently I meant in the last 40 years, since the making of ever violent movies, violent video games and the doctor’s prescribing mind bending drugs like they were just aspirin.
        People who wish to kill others do not have to have a gun, they can find many other ways to kill.
        Homemade Bombs come to mind as just one of the ways and there are many others.
        As I said the real problem is in the mind of the Killer, not the gun in their hand.

      • eddie47d

        There isn’t much common sense on anything anymore. Big Pharma pushes drugs people don’t need because that is where the money is. Quite often the doctor gets a piece of the take if they prescribe the companies favorite drug. Too many folks become sick from taking so many drugs but Big Pharma doesn’t care. Their marketing strategy is working! Not much different with gun dealers and gun shows. Their advertising anymore is relentless with billboards shouting out at you and ads in the paper. We are a nation obsessed with having the latest weapon finery to make things all better. One more pill won’t hurt and one more gun is good for the soul. Responsible? Absolutely Not!

      • Deborah

        Dave, in Oregon further carnage was stopped by a concealed weapon citizen. Did you hear that on the news???

      • Flashy

        Deborah…that is ot correct. Some guy who wanted to be on the news and grab his five minutes of airfame said he had a concealed weapon, he pulled it out and the gunman seeing that, off’d himself. the guy said he didn’t fire at the shooter because he was afraid of hitting someone if he missed.

        think that through…instead of shooting the guy, he ran and left him to continue to shoot.

        The shooter off’d himself when his assault gun jammed and the cops were coming into the building.

        No one, absolutely no one, can verify the guy’s story. …

        Though no doubt it will now be entered into gun wacko’s Hall of Fame.

      • hipshotpercusion

        Dave67. It is not BS! The supreme court in 1981 decided in a case brought in DC, that the police are under no obligation to protect anyone. For more information read Dial 911 And Die by Aron Zellman.

        Always remember. Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase temporary safety deserve neither liberty no safety, and will eventually loose both.” Benjamin Franklin

      • eddie47d

        No one is giving up their Liberties yet semi-automatics continue to wreck havoc on other peoples Liberties!

      • Vicki

        eddie47d says:
        “No one is giving up their Liberties yet semi-automatics continue to wreck havoc on other peoples Liberties!”

        Already have given up their liberties. Long list. Start here. http://libertylost.org/
        Semi-automatics are inanimate objects and can not do anything.

      • Robert Smith

        From duby: “The US has seven-fold more children on psychiatric medications than any other country, not surprisingly in almost all cases of mass school shootings in the last 18 years the person committing the crime has been a) seeing a psychiatrist and b) been on psychiatric medications since they were young, probably because someone diagnosed them with some BS medical condition because at 5 years old they wanted to play in class and not pay attention.”

        Thank you Tom Cruise, you sound like a good little robot from Scientology.

        Rob

      • Frank Kahn

        I believe that a question was put to one of your friends that visits and spouts nonsense here (Flashy), as to the weapon used in the most deadly massacre at a school. You have correctly identified the town Bath MI, but you have attributed the killing to guns? Since the thread here is gun control and gun violence, the inclusion of murder by dynamite is not valid.

        Also your guilt by association saying that WE HAVE A HISTORY OF KILLING, is misleading. It suggests that the WE are the people of this nation, when actually the WE is the HUMAN RACE.

        Some extremely horrific mass killings never seem to be mentioned in all these gun vs person debates. I am somewhat older than many here so I can remember quite clearly the Jones town massacre. I have also heard about many other CULT massacres that occurred without the use of firearms, they generally used poison. Explosives are also quite often used to kill massive amounts of innocent people, be it suicide bombers or blowing up aircraft in-flight. There was a fairly recent incident of the use of biological agents in killing people in a Japanese train. There is also the possibility of using radioactive material in a dirty bomb to kill thousands. Even knives and machetes have been use for mass murder. And it is possible to commit mass murder with an AUTOMOBILE.

        The one, and only, factor that links all these mass killings is the mentality of the killers, not the use of assault weapons with high capacity clips.

      • eddie47d

        That’s not true Vickie. The simple fact they were made for mass casualties makes them an assault weapon ready and willing to do harm. That makes them dangerous. Heck Land Mines just sit their with no one around but still kills or maims.

      • Vicki

        Frank Kahn. But it is guns they want to ban so they have to focus on mass shootings instead of mass killings. If they were serious about mass killings they would want to ban box cutters. Wait. Airplanes. No. Tall buildings. That’s what killed the really large number of people in the fall of 2001.

      • figmo

        congrats dobyblue, It’s gratifying to see someone is focusing on the actual problem. Most, if not all, of these mass killers had been taking anti-depresant or other psyc meds. These meds have been well documented to have potential side effects of violence and suicide yet no one seems interested in banning them and cutting into big pharmas multi billion dollar profits. This is where to focus the fight ! It’s the meds that are the real problem here so take the fight where it belongs.

  • Hallvard Wie

    I agree that politicians are inconsequential and that there are other issues one should be concerned about if one cares about children. But accusing politicians of using the school shooting tragedy as tool in a diabolical plan to constrain peoples freedom, seems far-fetched and paranoid.
    It is an unquestionable fact that countries with stricter gun control laws than the US have far fewer murders.
    I live in Sweden, and sure I do not have the freedom to buy all the assault weapons I want, but I am happy to forfeit that freedom to save many lives. I still feel quite free.

    • Karolyn

      This YouTube video refutes your assertion. Apparently, the crime rate in Australia has increased since they grabbed all the guns. Here where I live, and guns are very prevalent, there is little crime. Of course, it is a rural area, which might also be an explanation for the lack of crime.
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xh4oHK8Dgck

    • eddie47d

      That’s like some of the other videos that pop up around here Karolyn. One sided and full of half truths. Australians can and do own weapons and can still buy them. When those 35 people were killed in 1995 with a weapon of mass harm their government took immediately action and put an end to assault weapons. Australians can and do protect themselves and we also have home invasions in America where people are harmed whether guns are involved or not. What the video didn’t say is that there have been no mass shootings in Australia since that killing in Port Arthur. In the latest poll in Australia 90% of them still think the original gun ban was necessary. Before the ban they had 11 mass shootings so lets hear the whole story.

    • Steve E

      Here’s a fact that you don’t want to know:
      It has now been 12 months since gun owners in Australia were forced by a new law to surrender 640,381 personal firearms to be destroyed by our own government, a program costing Australia taxpayers more than $500 million dollars.
      The first year results are now in:
      Australia-wide, homicides are up 6.2 percent,
      Australia-wide, assaults are up 9.6 percent;
      Australia-wide, armed robberies are up 44 percent (yes, 44 percent)!
      In the state of Victoria alone, homicides with firearms are now up 300 percent. (Note that while the law-abiding citizens turned them in, the criminals did not and criminals still possess their guns!)

      • Vicki

        In the U.S. criminals DO turn in guns. At “no questions asked” buybacks. What a great way to get rid of the evidence.

    • eddie47d

      That ban was accomplished in 1996 not 12 months ago.

  • L. M.

    The emotional, knee-jerk reaction to blame the availability of guns is based on fear and prejudice but not fact.

    The historically disproved theory that placing more restrictions on the sane and law-abiding will protect the defenseless and innocent from the insane and lawless, is flat out ludicrous.

    Read the Second Amendment and research the Founders’ discussion of it, and you will understand that the possession of military grade weapons by the civilian citizenry for defense against rogue government and common criminals, is PRECISELY what the Founders intended!

    Ever notice that it is the unarmed defenseless in gun-free zones or in states with strictest gun control laws, who are usually the victims? Are you aware that the US states and cities with the highest gun crime are those with the strictest gun control laws? Did you know that until Newtown, the largest gun-related mass murders had occurred in Great Britain, Norway, Finland and Germany? That Switzerland, mentioned by another contributor, has military grade firearms in almost every home? That the largest mass murders in modern times did not even involve guns? (Explosives, poison and arson! are usually the mass murderers’ choices.)

    “Those who would give up their liberty for security shall have neither.” (paraphrased)– Ben Franklin

    • Flashy

      The emotional, knee-jerk reaction to blame the availability of guns is based on fear and prejudice but not fact. <—LM

      And the demands that we arm every frippin' citizen, every place, every school etc? That's not based in fear and prejudice?

      Criminey…ya want guns on every street corner and in everyone's hands/ move to frippin' Beirut.

      it is time to stop the insanity.

      • Steve E

        Now there’s a gun grabber for you.

      • OneGuess

        More nonsense from the flushed one. {yawn} Boring.

      • hipshotpercusion

        Flashy, if thats the way you feel about your fellow Americans, why don’t you go live in a workers paradise like Cuba, China, or North Korea. I’m sure they will let you starve with the rest of the unarmed peasants.

      • Vicki

        Flashy says:
        “And the demands that we arm every frippin’ citizen, every place, every school etc? That’s not based in fear and prejudice?”

        Argument to ridicule (frippin)(every…).
        Possible Ad Hominem (frippin citizen)
        Nope. Based on common sense. You also falsely state the position. We do not demand that every citizen be armed. We demand that the government stop telling us that we can’t.

        Flashy: “Criminey…ya want guns on every street corner and in everyone’s hands/ move to frippin’ Beirut.”

        Argument to ridicule (Criminey)(frippin)(guns standing on a street corner)
        Argument by false comparison. (Beirut)

        As it happens Flashy should move to Beirut. Far fewer guns in “everyone’s” hands.
        http://www.gunpolicy.org/firearms/region/lebanon
        Beirut has lots of slaves and a few government agents (with guns) on street corners though.

        Flashy: “it is time to stop the insanity.”

        Really? Can we do away with “Gun-Free” zones now? Have they failed us enough to understand yet?

      • Frank Kahn

        No, Flashy, we cannot stop the insanity, it is protected under the 1st amendment to the constitution.

        Even though we feel a need to stop the insanity, we will protect your right to freedom of speech with our right to bear arms.

    • eddie47d

      The “nonsense” came from LM Mr One Guess but I wouldn’t expect you to notice. The killer in Norway (Anders Breivik) who took out 68 (mostly kids) was a Nationalist and a gun enthusiast kind of like so many around here. He was extremely prejudice like so many around here so if the shoe fits you then put it on. Norway is one of the safest places in the world but along come a bigoted gun nut and our country is full of them. That is the danger! Mississippi has the most gun deaths per population and they are a red state with red laws so nice try on that one too! The mass murder in Great Britain was actually in Scotland and they also banned semi-automatic weapons and haven’t had any mass killings since. You see mass killings is the issue and what’s the best way to stop them. Banning assault weapons do work such as in Great Britain and Australia for they serve little purpose except to inflict mass casualties. I love you bringing up the Swiss. Those who have weapons in their home do it as part of their civic duty because they have no standing army. That is their national defense system and generally only involved 18-30 year old males. The weapons are government issued and government controlled including the ammunition. So the government knows where each and every weapon is which means there is accountability for the guns.

      • ranger09

        Maybe the Swiss have less crazy People then we have here, Must be because the weapons are in their hands, and they have access.

      • JC

        Far too many western nations are becoming a boiling pot of anger.
        One reason for that; The people of Norway in particular have about had it with massive uncontrolled Muslim immigration that has driven crime and rape right through the roof.
        While the Norway shooter committed an unbelievably horrific act, it was easy to see coming if you’ve been paying attention to Norway at all. It will happen again somewhere in Europe…they’re tired of being told to shut up while their nation’s are being stolen from them.

        • Nick Czudy

          JC. It is a small coincidence, but I happened to live in Norway for 4 months and at that time, there was no one that wanted the [expletive deleted] jobs and janitors, so they allowed a pile of Moroccans to immigrate, so that they would have some one to take all of the crappy jobs.
          Being a rather pure breed at that time, this was a real problem for the Norwegians to get used to having another race with all of their customs and habits. It took a while, but they finally acclimatized to having other cultures in their country. But like everywhere there are stead fast purists that cannot get used to this and this anger foments and grows and becomes a problem. And yes, this Breivic is very much like the Right wing patriots as you call yourselves. the anger grows inside you until some day you flip out and grab your guns and go and kick some butts. Sad.

      • JC

        Nick, I happen to be a believer in the Constitution of the United States of America.
        That does not qualify me as right wing. It qualifies me as an American. Something you obviously and correctly have no concept of.
        However, not to be too hard on you I understand why you see patriots as right wing…after all, when some is oriented as far left as you seem to be….Fidel Castro would be to your right, wouldn’t he? ;-)

        • Nick Czudy

          Hey JC. My good comrade Fidel. is a great patriot. haha. The one thing that the right wingers as yourself, love to do is to categorize other Americans in simplistic buzz words, that do not think like you do. As much as the constitution is a great document, it is 225 years old and the technology has changed a little bit. Ok the 2nd amendment, says that you have the right to bear arms. At that time it was front load, single shot muskets. There would be no problem is that is what you all wanted to bear. But since the technology has changed a lot. It makes sense that that amendment could use a little updating to modern times. As much as the constitution is a good basic blueprint for the federaltion, it could use some tweaking to bring it up to the modern times. warm regards and Merry Christmas.

  • Tom

    Some people here and in other countries like to refer to the lower gun violence because of gun control or gun elimination in that country. Great, but I would like to hear if those counties have a government that has turned a blind eye to massive gang problems, abandonment of securing the national borders, over use of medications pertaining to the mentally ill or unstable? Perhaps police corruption is not a problem, the list goes on.

    Having a gun is more than a right under our Bill of Rights, it is a requirement to survival in the US.

  • Andre

    It’s a crime in itself that those children were surrounded by unarmed civilian teachers who therefor were not able to protect them. Far more defenceless/unarmed citizens are killed by armed criminals each year than the number of people killed in Newton. Perhaps all their names and fotos should also be published, page after page…

    • eddie47d

      There is nothing that will stop the average US citizen from owning a weapon and I think you know that. People at home can be caught off guard all the time with or without a gun in the home. The BS is sure flying around today! If you want better security at schools then make that the issue such as arming office personal if they are willing.

      • Vicki

        eddie47d says:
        “People at home can be caught off guard all the time with or without a gun in the home.”

        Yes they can. What was your point again?

  • http://dobyblue.wordpress.com dobyblue

    Food for thought – When you look at the number of shootings at schools in the history of the USA, in shootings where there were at least two deaths, 35 shootings out of 46 occurred AFTER the Gun-Free Schools Act of 1994.

    • http://www.facebook.com/patrick.livingston.90 Patrick Livingston

      Its ashamed that these cowards and mentally disturbed people can read the signs “Gun free Zone” and know there is little or no resistance there to preform their horrible attacks on innocent children !!!

      • Flashy

        Maybe he should have chosen his attempt to kill someone armed with assault rifles, handguns, and knew how to shoot eh? That would have stopped him for sure. Oh wait …that’s how he got his weapons…

        • http://www.boblivingstonletter.com/ Bob Livingston

          Dear Flashy,

          You write: “Maybe he should have chosen his attempt to kill someone armed with assault rifles, handguns, and knew how to shoot eh? That would have stopped him for sure. Oh wait …that’s how he got his weapons…” You are being disingenuous here, and you know it. If reports are accurate, his mother was shot while she slept. If that’s the case, she certainly wasn’t “armed with assault rifles, handguns” and I doubt she had done much training in “how to shoot” in her sleep.

          Best wishes,
          Bob

      • eddie47d

        Yes Patrick…. easy access to weapons in all these mass shootings so start taking a little responsibility and do something about it from “your side”.

      • Patriot1776

        So your stand is that more government controls on the ownership of guns would have helped? You are supporting your argument for more laws to prevent this kind of attack on the arguement that this guy murdered his mother and stole her guns, both of which, I believe are illegal acts.

      • Flashy

        Patruiot…if she didn’t have that assault rifle and hundreds of rounds and large capacity clips for him to steal…ya really think he would have killed 20 babies and 6 innocent adults?

      • Patriot1776

        Do you really think that if she hadn’t had those weapons he wouldn’t have been able to get some somewhere else?

      • eddie47d

        Not necessarily for the easy access made it quick and easy for him to go through with his plan. His mother was careless and so is society in allowing these weapons into the hands of anybody.

      • Vicki

        eddie47d says:
        “Not necessarily for the easy access made it quick and easy for him to go through with his plan. His mother was careless and so is society in allowing these weapons into the hands of anybody”

        Proof by bald assertion and demonstrably false (society allowing….)
        NFA, GCA, Brady bill…… And that is just the well known ones.

      • Vicki

        Flashy says:
        “Maybe he should have chosen his attempt to kill someone armed with assault rifles, handguns, and knew how to shoot eh? That would have stopped him for sure. Oh wait …that’s how he got his weapons…”

        Thus proving our case that
        1.- you can’t stop criminals from getting guns.
        2.- you need more than 1 person around you to be armed so that you have the opportunity to protect yourself, family, community.

        Also ignores the unproven state of the mother when he killed her. Was she actually armed or was her safety “locked up” or dis-assembled as required by so many gun-grabbers.

      • eddie47d

        Speaking of “bald assertions” Adams weapon may have “been disassembled’. Oh please if that was true how did he get out of the house so fast to commit his crime? “Gun Grabbers” had nothing to do with this case or was that another “bald assertion”.

        • John W. Howard

          It seems an attitude like yours has been in place in the past. My meaning Stalin’s Russia est.40 million murdered by government, Mao’s China est. 60 million murdered by government, Hitler’s Germany est. 11 million murdered. All these have one thing in common no arms were in the publics hands because of the poor children and how unsafe it would be. Don”t you think you have enough blood on your hands, just like all the rest of the gun control idiots.

          How many RIGHTS are you willing to surrender for safety? If this is the mentality then you DON’T deserve safety or liberty.

  • http://none nick beck

    timing is everything– im NOT a C.THEOR. — however i would not be surprised to find out that something smells about the shooting. aka too many odd things about colorado and arizona also. they DO have a goal and i absolutely believe they would stoop to anything in order to accomplish it. and btw stop this nonsense as to how badly these bloomberg,schumer,feinstein,emanuel,reid etc. etc. care about kids or for that matter anyone but themselves-esp obama. those tears are certainly manufactured for the gullible . if they really cared they would want to pass on a fiscally res. and constitutionally backed government to these same kids they feel so bad about–a gov where the kids as adults would not be burdened with an impossible debt AND would be able to defend themselves against similar ilk as the afore mentioned miserable lot. we have two choices. first would be to hold on to the WHOLE constitution & bill of rights-with out ANY compromise. or secondly go over the edge with the FOOLS that will insist on compromise,PC,and failure to identify the enemy and or giving them qualities they DO NOT have.

    • eddie47d

      We certainly don’t need your phony concern and I doubt if any tears were shed by you. You’ll just go about your business encouraging the next travesty of justice by buying another weapon to make yourself feel good. You have your right to own a weapon so stop abusing it and treating it like buying candy in a candy store.

      • hipshotpercusion

        eddie47, another mindless cretin who holds his fellow Americans in disdain because he thinks the government should have all the guns. Why don’t you take disloyal pun A$$ to North Korea where you can starve to death with the other unarmed Peasants.How about it, creep?

  • http://aol Martin Lowenstein

    So what to do about mass shootings? Disarming people by abridging their Second Amendment rights only leaves them at the mercy of the psychopaths of the world, who, if they are going to kill, are going to kill regardless of what the laws are. “Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will desrve neither and lose both” — Benjamin Franklin

    • Patriot1776

      Only when we as a society realize and accept that the cause of the mass murders is not the availability of guns, but in the values, morals and accepted behaviors of the society. Even if there were no guns in existence, depraved individuals would find means of mass destruction and murder, witness Timothy McVay in Oklahoma City. The fact that this once great nation has descended morally to not only accept but approve the murder of the unborn, accepted the continuous violence and sexuality poured out on TV and every other form of mass media, and devalued the family in place of self-satisfaction and gratification is the root of the violence. We have allowed a government that devalues human life to lower our standards as a society.

      • John

        Why do assume Timothy McVeigh is guilty when the very people who want your guns are the ones who killed him? The man was a low IQ useful idiot just like Lee Oswald, who happened to get involved with the black ops part of your government and they used him like they used Lee.

      • Patriot1776

        The assignment of guilt and debate of conspiracy theories isn’t my intent, merely the point that anyone intent on killing another human being will find a means. Whether they use a gun, a bomb, a car, a plane, or tie a large rock to the person and throw them in a river, those intent on taking a life or lives will find a means. As Archie Bunker once said, “Would you feel any better if he threw him out a window?” A larger more controlling government restricting the rights of it’s citizens is not the answer.

      • eddie47d

        You said a mouthful there John but it wasn’t in your favor. Both Timothy and Lee had guns so you are saying that gun owners are “low IQ useful idiots”. That was classic!

      • eddie47d

        Since Patriot1776 thinks there are several means to knock someone off then everything in life is a free for all. That no one can do anything to stop the carnage because of their “rights”. Since guns are readily available to anyone how are your rights compromised? They aren’t but you keep telling yourself they are so who is delusional. A semi-automatic is not going to make you safer and has actually made the US far more dangerous. So I’m not buying the stubbornness of those who think their rights are being taken away.

      • Vicki

        eddie47d says:
        “Since guns are readily available to anyone how are your rights compromised? They aren’t but you keep telling yourself they are so who is delusional. ”

        Proof by bald assertion and demonstrably false.
        NFA 1934, GCA 1968, Brady waiting period. And that’s just the recent and well known ones.

        So speak again to us about delusions.

        eddie47d: “A semi-automatic is not going to make you safer and has actually made the US far more dangerous.”

        Proof by bald assertion and demonstrably false.
        History of crime vs history of semi-automatic.

        eddie47d: “So I’m not buying the stubbornness of those who think their rights are being taken away.”

        Erroneous opinion noted. :) Though many of us think you are paid to write those talking points.

      • eddie47d

        Waiting periods do not take away anyone’s rights. Period! To say that does mean you would never agree to a means test for the mentally incompetent.

      • vicki

        eddie47d says:
        “Waiting periods do not take away anyone’s rights. Period!”

        A right delayed is a right denied. Hmmmm…. I wonder who said that? :)

        “To say that does mean you would never agree to a means test for the mentally incompetent”

        I am not overly fond of the mentally incompetent being allowed to vote either.

  • http://twitter.com/Moose853 Dwain Boehl (@Moose853)

    You need to watch this video. Obama is Baiting us, he wants a civil war. This video explains the connection between the Aurora Colorado shooting, the Sandy Hook shooting, and the growing National Debt. This is why we need to take a stand.
    http://youtu.be/4-rPlXmPDsc

    • eddie47d

      The speaker was wrong right off the bat about debt even though he got it right about the oligarchy manipulating the world. Wars create more debt so how can he say with a straight face that anyone would go to war to stop the debt situation. Wars are definitely fought for exploitation,greed,control of resources and almost all are wrong headed but I’m not biting into his debt theory. At least not at face value.

      • JC

        What was it that brought out of the Great Depression?
        A: The Second World War.

  • BLH557

    I’ve read a number of replies regarding the “insanity” of calls for teachers to be armed and trained and yet if gun control were actually the answer the Sandy Hook incident would never have happened.

    CT has the fourth strictest gun laws in the country. In fact, the Brady Bunch consider CT to have the “best” laws regarding “gun-free zones” anywhere. That didn’t seem to stop the murderer of Newtown. It is illegal to purchase an AR-style weapon (ignorantly called assault weapon – if you are ever confronted y a REAL assault weapon, you’ll know) in CT, so he stole one… and then left it in his car. He was denied a gun thanks to an NICS background check, which BTW is the same check used to buy guns at a gun show (the “gun show loophole” is a myth). That didn’t work, so he broke another law by killing his mother and stole her guns. He was denied access to the school the day before. AS a result he shot out a window and crawled in.

    So, tell me; which other LAW would have stopped this murderous maniac?

    The three mile Gun-Free Zone?

    Stiffer murder laws?

    Lack of easy access to guns?

    A deeper NICS background check?

    An “assault weapons” ban?

    Limiting magazines to under ten rounds?

    Okay, maybe we need a law to make police sirens LOUDER. After all, he did save the taxpayers money by shooting himself in the head when he heard them. BTW, suicide is also against the law.

    If you all were actually SERIOUS about the safety of those kids, and OUR kids, you would see that making gun-free zones has only lead to a shooting gallery in these cases. The last five multiple homicides, including this one, were all committed in “gun-free” zones. At least in Oregon the guy was stopped when someone tried to hold him AT GUN POINT, leading him to also off himself.

    The facts are that in order to protect these kids there has to be a MEANS of protection. If you don’t like the idea of teachers becoming trained and licensed (training is NECESSARY) to carry arms, then PAYING armed guards is an option. If you are afraid of those same teachers… then by all means send your kids to a “gun-free” zone school where, I’m sure they’ll be just as safe as those kids in gun-free Sandy Hook Elementary were.

    • Valor

      Very well said. I will add one thing. In Israel, where Islamic barbarians would kill Jewish children by the busload if they had a chance, select teachers are armed and trained in the use of those arms. They have to re-qualify annually. No additional expense of hiring armed guards. Common sense. Something totally missing in AMerica.

    • eddie47d

      Wow! What irony! You all say America’s teachers can’t be trusted to educate our children and now you want to arm them. What baloney! What kind of spin will you come up with tomorrow?

      • S.C.Murf

        Fast eddie, how you doin? My wife is a teacher, early childhood development, 4 & 5 year old’s. She is still sick about what happened and cant keep her mind off of it, she loves her kids, loves to watch them get excited and learn, when she came home last night looked at me and said that they (teacher’s and kids) are really sitting ducks even with door’s locked. Gun free zones are nothing more than shooting galleries. She is all for arming some in the school system, she says at least it will give them a fighting chance, not just being sitting DUCKS. Lets listen to what the people in the shooting gallery have to say, after all it’s their a$$e$ and our kids. Merry CHRISTmas bud.

        up the hill
        airborne

  • Steve E

    If the politicians really cared for the children. They would not have created a growing $16 trillion deficit. So don’t buy that ‘It’s for the children” bit.

    • stevenl

      You cannot argue with that logic, my friend,now if we could just make those so-called ass holes we call politicians understand that.

    • Nadzieja Batki

      Thanks, and another thing all those parasites and moochers living off the government dole if they cared about the children would not have created the big welfare state which is now unsustainable. Their protestations of caring for the children is more hoooey.

  • http://WWSDeals.com Winfield

    I believe an “arm and train the teachers” plan is a very workable, emergency, stopgap, and effective measure until all the underlying causes mentioned are resolved. Getting rid of guns is not going to work! Getting rid of “gun free zones” will work.
    President Obama’s penchant for solving problems with “executive orders”, should be immediately exercised to stop the senseless slaughter of innocent kids by authorizing armed teachers to act as the first line of defense for our kids. The first response heros, like the priciple at Sandy Hook, are already in place. ARM THEM!
    When all the root causes of senseless violence are elimated, I will be the first in line to hand over my guns. Of course, rational people realize that is an “impossible dream”.
    So, Polititions, STOP DREAMING! …. and get real! …. You hypocrits surround yourselves and loved ones, with armed guards and want to remove the means for honest, law abiding, responsible folks to do the same. Let’s level the playing field!

    • Patriot1776

      Winfield, I agree that an “arm and train the teacher” program would help. I would suggest that local law enforcement agencies work with schools and even businesses to create a trained first responder program similar to the first aid responder programs. Most businesses and industries are as at risk as the schools to an attack by anyone that is armed with the intent of inflicting casualties. If there was a cooperative program to train armed responders rather than to declare a gun free zone then you would deter most of the threat.

      • http://WWSDeals.com Winfield

        We are certainly on the “same page” Patriot.
        The suggestion you make is an excellent one and should be implemented as well. But, in the precious few minutes it would take for the team to arrive, much damage would have already occured. Thus, arm and train teachers to act in those crucial few minues and limit the carnage.
        I think both programs could work in tandem and should be implemented. We could leard a lot from the Israelis in this regard. They have armed teachers and the response teams to deal with these types of things.
        If more people would get their heads “out of the sand” and stop believing the anti-gun rhetoric, we would be well on our way to a workable solution to these problems.

      • Patriot1776

        My actual thought would be that the armed first responders would be employees on site who are trained by local law enforcement. There is no way for anyone off campus to respond in time to prevent these murders, only by protection from within.

    • eddie47d

      Maybe you “guys” should pull your head out of the sand and stop peddling your incessant pro gun diatribe. Few teacher would ever agree to having a weapon strapped on their body and their job is to teach not to be watching the door for some shooter to come waltzing. Arming teachers is a feel good approach which you have bought into. I wouldn’t even want policeman being employed by the schools mainly because of the yearly expense with hundreds having to be hired. School budgets are extremely tight as it is. The best solutions is to have those in administration (in the office) have access to a weapon and be trained to use it. Either being able to use their own weapon which they would take home each night or if not have it locked in a safe at the end of the day. If kids know where the guns are someone would get the bright idea to break in and steal it so precautions have to be taken no matter who controls the security.

      • Vicki

        eddie47d says:
        “Maybe you “guys” should pull your head out of the sand and stop peddling your incessant pro gun diatribe.”

        Ad hominem and argument to ridicule. Debate fail.

      • eddie47d

        Hardly because you said so Vickie!

      • vicki

        eddie47d says:
        “Hardly because you said so Vickie!”

        Not because I said so. Be cause YOU said so. Look up the definitions.

        • http://www.wwsdeals.com Winfield

          Radicals in Israel were targeting schools, as they were “gun free zones”, until the early 70′s. They armed the teachers and have not had an incident since. Now there is a program proven to work in one of the most violent areas of the world. A precedent America needs to adopt.
          And, yes, I believe enough teachers WOULD be willing to “carry”. A simple poll would answer that question and willing volunteers would be trained at Front Sight free of charge.

  • roger

    federal gun free zone? nope, no way…………

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Lopez

  • Valor

    It is extremely saddening to see the comments here supporting gun control. Such comments, along with the abject stupidity demonstrated in the recent election, offer no hope for the survival of America as a bastion of liberty. The bottom line is that each American will soon have to decide if they want life, or liberty. We will not have both. Apparently, that is ok with a huge number of Americans. Oh, well, it was great while it lasted.

  • franklinton

    Again I say: We have at least two MASS MURDERERS (OBAMA AND HOLDER) blabering about gun control when they are the PERPS of fast and furious and Benghazi. This is all about transforming this once great nation to a third world country from which this SO CALLED president is from. Where is the birth certificate from Kenya???

    • eddie47d

      [comment has been edited]There was no mass murder in Benghazi and people do die in military style attacks. Where is your concern for the 31 other Americans that were saved? That is never mentioned by the right wingers who are always looking for a story to enhance.Enough of your phony Kenyan birth certificate malarkey too. Trust me I will once again bring up the real “mass murderers” during other administrations just to slap down your ignorance!

      • JC

        The long form Hawaiian Birth certificate is a forgery Eduardo…
        Two forensic agancies have said so, one in Arizona and one in Israel.
        It isn’t even factually accurate on its face.

        • Nick Czudy

          Hey JC. Let me guess. the Forensic institute in Arizona is the Joe Arpio Institute of Holy Forensics.

      • JC

        Casting groundless aspersions against reputable and accountable agencies used by the State.
        Oh, well…that’s all the libs have I guess…”innuendo”.

  • Deerinwater

    Make no mistake, these recent events of last Friday will place the 2nd amendment under fire as anti-gun proponents see the opportunity to brand while the fire is the hottest.

    I personally support the intentions of the second amendment. I will stand with pro gun people.

    Want I won’t do is defend a neglectful gun owner. Gun ownership is a responsibility.

    • deerinwater

      WHAT! I read that 4 time!

  • richard brooks

    you can argue about passing new laws. perhaps someone can explain how any more laws would have stopped what happened.

    the real problem is not the type of weapon you may own. democrats
    the problem is restriction of who may own a weapon and how it may be used. republicans.

    the gop is actually more anti gun than the democrats. the gop restricts who may own a gun and how that gun can be used. remember brady?

    every american should be allowed to own, carry and use a weapon in defense of themselves or others. while that would not have stopped this idiot, it would have reduced the number of his victims.

    • deerinwater

      Well, I don’t believe this to correct; “every american should be allowed to own, carry and use a weapon in defense of themselves or others.”

      Such a statement is simply too broad, Rights and privileged come with responsibilities. Clearly every American can not pass the responsibility requirement of gun ownership.

      If they could, ~ we would not be having this discussion today.

  • Carol Keljo

    Does anyone realize 211 children were killed by drunk drivers in 2010? Of those 131 were in the car with the driver. Where is the sympathy and the outrage? (Stats from NTSA and MADD).

    • deerinwater

      Oh Carol! the rage is there. ~ That the get tough laws on drunk drivers has not eradicated it 100% , it’s been very effective and is ongoing though out the US.

      From Blow and Go ignition system installed on their cars, to jail time, to loss of driving privileges, to going into debt 30,000 in a attempt to retain driving privileges.

      You get caught driving drunk, you instantly become a third class citizen, if you was not already.

      The court systems have made it a huge burden to carry, ~

    • John

      Great comment Carol. They are coming for our guns. They will do it through the U.N. gun ban and then politely ask you to turn them in. If you don’t, they will ask again. If you still don’t comply they will use the IRS to audit you, garnish your wages, and if you still don’t comply they will catch you as off guard as possible to provide as much protection for themselves as possible. Before this happens we must go offensive. We can’t wait until the bastards come a knockin to knock back!

    • Dave67

      That is terrible…. but are you really saying someone being stupid and getting behind the wheel of a car (impaired by alcohol) and killing a child in the street or in another car is the same thing as strapping on a bunch of guns, going into a school on purpose and looking 6 and 7 year olds in the eye and pulling the trigger 2 and 3 times into their bodies?

      Really?

      Guns are made specifically for killing

      Cars are made specifically for transport.

      I believe in the ability to own guns (responsibly) and to responsibly get trainig to use and store weapons properly.

      But your analogy… I can’t go there with you.

    • eddie47d

      Carol Carol Carol I was once a member of MADD and was outraged at what drunk drivers have done and am equally outraged in what the semi-automatic weapon can do. These are two major problems we have to address (along with several others). Its not an either or but both!

      • Patriot1776

        But the root cause of both problems may be traced to the degredation of society and the lack of value that is put on life. If the government says that it is okay to murder babies in the womb because the rights of the mother supercede the rights of the unborn, what value does that place on the life of another?

      • Vicki

        eddie47d denostrates argument by false assocation by saying:
        “Carol Carol Carol I was once a member of MADD and was outraged at what drunk drivers have done and am equally outraged in what the semi-automatic weapon can do.”

        Attempt to (falsely) associate a person (driver, drunk) with an inanimate object.

        eddie47d: “These are two major problems we have to address (along with several others). Its not an either or but both!”

        Failed assumption leads directly to failed problem definition and thus to false conclusion.

      • eddie47d

        Your so full of crap Vickie!

      • JC

        Vicki, Kamrade Eduardo is like that. He also tried to associate suing a Doctor for Malpractice to suing gun shops for gun violence. I can’t see the connection…can you?
        The guy’s a wing nut.

      • vicki

        eddie47d says:
        “Your so full of crap Vickie!”

        Such a witty Ad Hominem. Surely you can do better.
        Seems as though you might be getting frustrated.

  • patrick ridge

    I don’t know why I am writing this note especially on this website because I know all I will get is insults and stupid comments eg many people are killed by cars,let’s ban cars (Oh boy) etc.Well anyway here it goes I wrote in the USA Today comment section way back in 1984 after the San Diego Massacre or the McDonalds’ Massacre when 21 women and children were killed by some gun nut who thought the Government were giving him a hard time.I wrote at the time these type of massacres would happen again and again boy was I right sadly.Since that 1984 massacre give or take over 300,000 Americans have been killed by gunfire or put this way since Bobby Kennedy was killed in June 1968 to the present day over 1 million Americans have killed by gunfire.If you put all the WW1,WW2,Korean and Vietnam Americans killed in action duriing all these wars it would not match the above figure.Will anything happen after the Sandy Hook outrage???I doubt it.the President will try but when you have idiots like Bachmann,Ron Paul (a man I used to respect)Palin etc shouting we need our guns because the UN is going invade us or Obama is going to let in all Muslims in etc it’s no wonder the rest of the world shakes their heads in shock.In the meantime America’s love affair with guns will go on,more innocent people will get killed but hey we have the right to bear arms(written in 1791 when they had single shot muskets)—God help America.

    • Nadzieja Batki

      You admitted in the first sentence that you are stupid.

    • John

      You are right Patrick. At a website entitled personalliberty.com a fool like you should not comment.

      • John

        By the way, Patrick, I happen to have a very close relative involved in the San Diego shooting in 1984. The man who did the shooting was on a psychotropic drug, as have been all the mass shooting perpetrators as far back as I can remember. Why don’t you attack them as diligently as you attack the Constitution of the United States?

      • John

        By the way Patrick, you aren’t the Patrick working for the CIA that infiltrated a militia group back in the early 1990′s along with some cohorts from the FBI are you?

      • eddie47d

        Nadzieja is always touchy about facts and that makes her “stupid” herself but John takes the cake. The Constitution says nothing about Americans having the right or ability to commit mass murder. Nice of you too also bring up Militias for I would love to discuss the death and trail of killings they have been involved in.

  • Tea

    If you ask me I believe he was programed just like the the shooter in Colorado and Sirhan-Sirhan-Sirhan and the rest,its part of the Illuminates plain for controlling the masses,look at N’arlins after Katrina,that right there was a field test and it worked, the sheeple gave up there guns with out a fight.I for one do not own(due to the cash flow) a gun but I hope and pray this all blows over in time so I can get one but we do own other weapons to discourage home intruders

  • Mary

    Something is going to have to be done to make it more difficult to get assault weapons and taking them off the market completely is the most logical thing to do. They are not for hunting and if needed for protection, then you need to call in law emforcement. Half the population seems to be walking around “packing” in today’s society. The idiots that are not educated in gun safety, or do not care, leave bullets readily in the chambers and everyone is vunerable to being shot by accident or on purpose in a fit of anger. There are definitely more concealed guns out there than years ago and maybe that needs to be changed. we do not seem to be any safer by having them.

    • Nadzieja Batki

      You don’t know a thing abou tweapons which you derided in your comment. You have made yourself a bigger liar than what you usually are by more lying about gun owners. You don’t know all of them so you don’t know what they all do.

      • eddie47d

        There was no lie in her comment Nadzieja and was an opinion. Where is your “opinion” to prove what she said is not true. I’d call you what you called her but I’ll wait for YOUR answer.

    • Ted Crawford

      If, as you imply, Gun Control is the amswer, Please explain the incident in China – 22 Children died NO GUNS
      the Oklahoma City Bombing – 168 died Again NO GUN
      The incident in Norway – Very strict Gun control Lwas – && died in spite of Gun Control!

      • Ted Crawford

        Should read 77 died in Norway!

      • eddie47d

        I see Ted picked up on that falsehood spread by Jana yesterday about China. Not a one of those school children were killed. Yes 22 were stabbed but all survived! If a semi-automatic weapon was used all would be dead. Breivik in Norway was a white nationalist who hated minorities and Muslims and Norway is still a safe country in spite of the actions of that right winger. McVeigh would have committed his act regardless if semi-automatics are banned. So that issue is irrelevant!

  • Bob W

    If you think the answer is to only let the criminals have guns then after they come to your house and walk into your house how are you going to stop them? knife, bat or what?

    It’s the communist way of thinking half way to a conclusion….Duh

    • eddie47d

      The Second Amendment is alive and well and almost anyone can own a gun. I will tell you though STOP abusing that right and privilege. STOP this insistence that anyone needs an automatic or semi-automatic for self protection anywhere. That not true and is total BS. Those semi-automatics is the weapon of choice for mass killers especially the younger they are. Why would you use a knife for home protection when you have a right to own a gun. Typical fear mongering from the right and your “thinking” is full of holes like the bodies in Newtown. Its way past time for you to get over yourself!

      • Patriot1776

        And typical fear mongering of the liberals claiming that because this one man broke the existing laws to obtain this weapon, then all who legally own “assault weapons” are simply mass murders who haven’t acted yet.

      • eddie47d

        One man? There have been numerous “one man’s” doing the same thing.

  • http://www.davidlerickson.com David

    Politicians will use any bit of leverage they can, so saying gun control measures are for the children is an understandable ploy. But those arguing that it’s all a matter of culture and training miss the larger picture as well.
    There is a middle ground and common sense legislation is at the core of it. These recommendations are not in any order.
    Step one is mandatory trigger locks on all guns.
    Second, ban assault weapons and clips holding more than ten rounds.
    Third, severely curtail the secondary gun market (such as no check sales at gun shows), which is largely to blame for the availability of weapons to the criminally minded.
    Fourth, gun education in middle and high school, with a focus on responsible gun ownership and the damage guns can do to people and their lives.
    Fifth, more thorough background checks to help keep guns away from unstable individuals and criminals.
    Sixth, continue the design and incorporation gun controls that prevent anyone except the owner from firing them.
    Seventh, ban armor piercing rounds.
    Eighth, rethink the ‘gun free zones’ and expand concealed weapons laws, but with strict requirements.
    Ninth, mandatory gun handling training in middle and high schools.

    Granted, there is little we can do legally to change the culture that has led to mass killings as this is very much an aspect of responsible parenting. Teaching an obviously mentally impaired child how to use weapons, for example, is just plain stupid. But there is no speaking for stupid, so it’s up to the community to remain vigilant.

    It’s clear that the majority of Americans, and 74% of NRA members, are behind responsible gun legislation. But for politicians to act, they need public displays, such as a mass killing, to get their compadres to make sensible legislative choices. So don’t blame them if they claim it’s for the children, because in many ways it is.

    • FreedomFigter

      Bravo Sierra David, gun control or confiscation is about taking all guns away from AMERICANS to subdue them for the NWO takeover now in progress.

      AMERICA MUST BE DISARMED AND THE CONSTITUTION VOIDED FOR WORLD GOVERNMENT.

      So it has been written by the UN, read it in there own words.

    • eddie47d

      Thanks for the common sense David apparently some think that they have to spread more fear like Freedom above to advance THEIR agenda.

  • Sam Adams

    Who did this professional shooting, not some kid? Where are all the wounded? Wow, 1 one wounded, not normal? Holmes [Auora theater] father and Lanza,s father [VP of GE Capital are suposed to testify to the senate about huge LIBOR scandel lawsuit. Always follow the money, and keep your dirty filthy hands off my guns

    • eddie47d

      Your no Sam Adams in your trickery in bringing up an issue that has nothing to do with what is being discussed. Your like another thug yesterday where they said these kids were deliberately killed and approved of by the government. Your conspiracy sickness is spreading like a cancer with no cure in sight!

  • James Kirksey

    The criminal and insane among us do not abide by our laws; criminal – outlaw? Either we follow the 2nd Amendment or we pass stupid laws that take rights away from honest law abiding citizen to defend themselves and their families. Stop the gun blame game and go after the criminals, who use weapons of all kinds; poison, knives, axes, bombs, and socialist/unconstitutional laws.

    • eddie47d

      Our prisons are full of criminals and the Second Amendment (the way it is being used today) probably gave some of those criminals wide leeway in obtaining their weapons. You can call them “stupid laws” and some are but the right to bear arms has been abused by legal gun owners who think weapons of mass killings are a normal part of everyday life. Some of you are dishonest in what you have given birth too (semi-automatics). You have every right to defend your family but you don’t need those weapons to do it.

      • JeffH

        eddie says, ” You can call them “stupid laws” and some are but the right to bear arms has been abused by legal gun owners who think weapons of mass killings are a normal part of everyday life. Some of you are dishonest in what you have given birth too (semi-automatics).”

        Just when I thought I was seeing some positive progess in some of eddie’s comments he flushes them all down the drain with such an ignorant comment.

        How on earth does a “legal gun owner” abuse the right to bear arms? A legal gun owner doesn’t…a criminal does! As far as your comment about legal gun owners that think “weapons of mass killings” are a part of normal everyday life…those are the words of an anti-gun zealot(much like Bloomberg)that has no clue of what he speaks.

        “…you have given birth too (semi-automatics).” That is as ignorant and dishonest a statement as can be made by anyone

        FYI, I own 3 semi-auto “weapons” and will be adding a fourth to my “semi-auto” arsenal before the end of the year. A few months ago I traded two of my semi-autos to a guy in West Virginia for a non semi-auto gun…all were obtained and ownership transferred through legal methods as prescribed by law.

      • eddie47d

        You’re really not worth answering too Jeff but since you asked. Its like a legal adult buying kids cigarettes and then wondering why the kid smokes. If the legal owner of guns don’t want these mass shootings then they will allow severe restriction or total banning if suitable. Legal doesn’t mean a thing if the same old shenanigans keep occurring.

      • JeffH

        eddie, you have no rationale thought, argument or knowledge when guns are in the equasion…you’re simply driven by your emotions like the rest of the anti-gun zealots.

      • JC

        You’re right about that Jeff, the guy’s a total wingnut.

    • Nadzieja Batki

      It amazes me no end why people don’t question leaders who are eager to disarm people then promise that they will protect the people. What are the leaders getting out of this transaction? It is a one sided transaction because unless they asign an armed guard to every family and every business they cannot protect anyone. The promises are empty words.

      • JeffH

        Nad, I wouldn’t trust a government appointed “armed guard” to protect me…our creators endowed us with the right to defend and protect ourselves.

      • Robert Smith

        “our creators endowed us with the right to defend and protect ourselves.”

        How did that work for the kids?

        The MENTAL HEALTH issues need to be addressed.

        Sadly it’s clear the right would rather spend money on publicity, litigation, and funerals, than put a dime into mental health care for those who can’t pay for it.

        Rob

      • JeffH

        Rob, you’re just an idiot!

      • JeffH

        “our creators endowed us with the right to defend and protect ourselves.”

        Rob asks(no surprise here)”How did that work for the kids?”

        Considering that it is the anti-gun zealots and the force of government that has severly endangered the safety of the kids by limiting that right under the threat of imprisonment to those who are responsible for protecting the kids by creating “gun-free zones”…you tell me.

        Must every tragic mass shooting bring out the shrill ignorance of “gun control” advocates?

        The key fallacy of so-called gun-control laws is that such laws do not in fact control guns. They simply disarm law-abiding citizens, while people bent on violence find firearms readily available.

        If gun-control zealots had any respect for facts, they would have discovered this long ago, because there have been too many factual studies over the years to leave any serious doubt about gun-control laws being not merely futile but counterproductive.

        Guns are not the problem. People are the problem — including people who are determined to push gun-control laws, either in ignorance of the facts or in defiance of the facts.

        There is innocent ignorance and there is invincible, dogmatic, and self-righteous ignorance. Every tragic mass shooting seems to bring out examples of both among gun-control advocates.

        The rate of gun ownership is higher in rural areas than in urban areas, but the murder rate is higher in urban areas. The rate of gun ownership is higher among whites than among blacks, but the murder rate is higher among blacks. For the country as a whole, hand-gun ownership doubled in the late 20th century, while the murder rate went down.

        Gun-Control Ignorance
        How many times do the same arguments need to be refuted?
        By Thomas Sowell

      • JC

        Robert Smith says:

        December 19, 2012 at 4:43 pm

        “our creators endowed us with the right to defend and protect ourselves.”

        How did that work for the kids?
        ___________________________________________________________________

        It didn’t work for the kids…they were in a “gun free zone” remember?
        ___________________________________________________________________

        Robert Smith says: The MENTAL HEALTH issues need to be addressed.
        ___________________________________________________________________
        Yes they do. It doesn’t take much more than a cursory examination to realize that Liberalism has become a mental health issue. I mean, just look at the results of their thinking…a completely dependant and immoral society. Well…the Liberal half anyway…
        Got a pill for that “Doc”?

  • Andre

    There’s no firearms problem! To paraphrase a Charles Aznavour song: Yesterday when I was young… in the place where I lived, hunters walked through the village with their rifles on their sholders and farmers with al kind of deadly axes, scyhes and forks in their hands. Never was there any problem. So don’t blame gun ownership for the ‘problem’ but the moral decay of society for which the anti-gun liberals themeselves are mostly to blame…

    • Robert Smith

      Andre claims: “So don’t blame gun ownership for the ‘problem’ but the moral decay of society for which the anti-gun liberals themeselves are mostly to blame…”

      Why not blame Reagan for emptying the mental hospitals and the right for not being willing to pay a dime for mental health care for those who can’t afford it?

      After all, everyone understands that it’s NUTS who commit such crime.

      Or are their strings being pulled by a brutal god who wants to “test” his flock?

      Rob

      • JC

        I trust Big Pagrma about as much as I trust liberals with my rights and liberty’s…not at all.

      • JC

        “Pharma”

      • Frank Kahn

        Why do you keep referring to God as BRUTAL? Can you explain and give examples where he was intentionally brutal without reason for punishing those involved?

  • FreedomFighter

    We live under the rule of organizers, community and otherwise, whose great faith is that the power to control men and their environment will allow them to shape their perfect state into being, and the violent acts of lone madmen are a reminder that such control is fleeting, that utopia has its tigers, and that attempting to control a problem often makes it worse by removing the natural human crowdsourced responses that would otherwise come into play.

    The clamor for gun control is the cry of sheltered utopians believing that evil is a substance as finite as guns, and that getting rid of one will also get rid of the other. But evil isn’t finite and guns are as finite as drugs or moonshine whiskey, which is to say that they are as finite as the human interest in having them is. And unlike whiskey or heroin, the only way to stop a man with a gun is with a gun.

    People do kill people and the only way to stop people from killing people is by killing them first. To a utopian this is a moral paradox that invalidates everything, but to everyone else, it’s just life in a world where evil is a reality, not just a word.

    An armed society spends more time stopping evil than contemplating it. It is the disarmed society that is always contemplating it as a thing beyond its control. Helpless people must find something to think about while waiting for their lords to do something about the killing. Instead of doing something about it themselves, they blame the agency of the killer in being free to kill, rather than their own lack of agency for being unable to stop him.

    http://frontpagemag.com/2012/dgreenfield/gun-control-is-evil-misspelled/

    Gun control is evil.

    Laus Deo
    Semper Fi

  • Wolfman

    I will not shop at Dick’s Sporting Goods and others any longer for taking such a negative position on firearms due to the Sandy Hook School tragedy before all the facts were in. Here is the real issue.This kids doomsday mother was taking her mentally ill kid to a gun range to learn about and shoot guns when she should have taken him to see a doctor and then lets him play (Violent) video games. Was she also a nut case ? and why is the father in hiding? Because of this disfuctional family now we all lose more of our freedoms. AOL, Huff Post, Face Book and others will not post this comment

    • http://dobyblue.wordpress.com dobyblue

      Yeah, because taking him to see a doctor the prescribed him Fanapt was a great idea.

      Listed side effects:
      Psychiatric

      Psychiatric side effects including restlessness, aggression, and delusion have been reported frequently. Hostility, decreased libido, paranoia, anorgasmia, confusional state, mania, catatonia, mood swings, panic attack, obsessive-compulsive disorder, bulimia nervosa, delirium, polydipsia psychogenic, impulse-control disorder, and major depression have been reported infrequently.

      Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/adam-lanza-taking-antipsychotic-fanapt-2012-12#ixzz2FW2QArP7

  • cerebus23

    Looking at how the war on drugs has been going in this nation i cant wait for the war on guns it will be so much easier to hop down to the corner and pick up an illegal gun than go get registered and fill out paperwork.

    prohibition has such a long history of success in this nation……..

    • JC

      That’s exactly how it would work.
      Laws that turn honest people into criminals have nothing at all to do with Justice.

  • alkes mici

    Please consider this,it is more then obviouse what the Power that be is looking for: in USA

    “Bolshevik” so called revolution( coup d’état) have instaled a power who confiscated all guns, whatsoever. The result was that the State terrorism freely killed more than 35-40 milions people without any difficulty. The worst genocide of all times.
    Hitler’s nazi did the same, they confiscated all guns and then the State terror was free to do what they want. Result: you know very well. !
    The criminal Mao and his willing executionaires did the same, after they confiscated all guns from the people .
    Then was the 50% of Europe or former communist East -European country ! Tens of millions people were deprived from their fundamental rights and milions died just like that after the guns were confiscated by the Power( read State)
    Pol Pot (Cambodgia ) first confiscated and then the State terrorism did the most horrific crime all times ( USSR, China and German’s “born to be killers” not included in this list) .
    Therefore if you USA citiezen will give -up this fundamental right then the State terrorism will make you a very bad surprise . Try to imagine what to expect in the near future .

    • JC

      That would be about a hundred million reasons to own a gun right there.

  • Rob

    In 1982, the city of Kennesaw, GA passed an ordinance, “requiring heads of households to own at least one firearm with ammunition.” It was passed in order to, “”protect the safety, security and general welfare of the city and its inhabitants.” After the law was passed, gun control advocates were stating that crime would be rampant in the streets, and there would be a great increase in violent crime. Instead, the crime rate dropped over 89%, and has not risen, causing Kennesaw, GA to have one of the lowest, if not the lowest crime rate in the U.S.

    • Robert Smith

      I agree with the above, put please don’t confuse “Rob says” with Robert Smith.

      Rob

  • Kenny Harbaugh

    It’s not the guns that are killing people, it’s the the idiot,the military want a be, the people of any age that thinks that takeing a gun and shooting someone makes them a big impotant person.that will get alot of attention.
    Where we need to start is by controling or banning the violent video games and movies that help give young people the idea that violence is the answer to the problems in their lives.
    But as for me i want to know that if i find myself looking down the barrel of someones gun i have the right to protect myself or hopefully be able to protect someone else.

    • Nadzieja Batki

      You are looking for scapegoats whether they are inanimate or living to blame. You still won’t find the root cause of why someone destroys lives, you are looking in all the wrong places for answers.

  • JeffH

    Raging Against Self Defense: A Psychiatrist Examines The Anti-Gun Mentality
    By Sarah Thompson, M.D.

    “You don’t need to have a gun; the police will protect you.”
    “If people carry guns, there will be murders over parking spaces and neighborhood basketball games.”
    “I’m a pacifist. Enlightened, spiritually aware people shouldn’t own guns.”
    “I’d rather be raped than have some redneck militia type try to
    rescue me.”

    How often have you heard these statements from misguided
    advocates of victim disarmament, or even woefully uninformed
    relatives and neighbors? Why do people cling so tightly to these beliefs, in the face of incontrovertible evidence that they are wrong?

    Why do they get so furiously angry when gun owners point out that their arguments are factually and logically incorrect?
    How can you communicate with these people who seem to be out
    of touch with reality and rational thought?

    One approach to help you deal with anti-gun people is to
    understand their psychological processes. Once you understand
    why these people behave so irrationally, you can communicate
    more effectively with them.
    http://www.supertrap.com/ST_Downloads_files/RagingAgainstSelfDefense.pdf

    • http://gravatar.com/bychoosing WTS/JAY

      I especially find humour in the first line, JeffH; “You don’t need to have a gun, the police will protect you”. ROFLMAO!!!

      The police NEVER protect you, they always come after the fact, and only to clean-up mess. Seems the only job the police does well, is create revenue(traffic and parking tickets)! Oh, and consuming large quantities of coffee and donuts…!

  • Joz

    GUNS DON’T KILL ! Psychopaths on DRUGS load the gun and pull the triggers on registered guns KILL- ONLY CRIMINALS/INSANE PEOPLE KILL! – BAN ALL DRUGS ! NOT GUNS ! here; MadAsAHatter! writes:

    The world has gone nuts…along with our president and all the other gun grabbers! Switzerland is number 3 in private gun ownership among 179 countries. Their homicide rate is so low because their citizens have guns to protect themselves. Check this site out and weep because our government doesn’t even plan to recognize this.
    http://www.gunpolicy.org/firearms/region/Switzerland

    These citizens can defend themselves. In San Antonio, yesterday, a man walked into a movie theater and shot someone, but was then shot by a person with a concealed carry permit who prevented any further harm to the patrons at the theater. Instead of praising this brave man, the government wants to take his gun away and allow another Aurora, CO. massacre?

    Don’t our government officials realize that it is the sick and demented who target innocent people in places where guns aren’t allowed so that they can do the most harm before they are either killed, kill themselves, or arrested and then instead of being punished, are tested for their mental acuity? That’s backwards! A sicko who does something like this, does it to gain notoriety…and they get plenty of that with 24-hour coverage by the media of all types, calling for stricter gun control and creating an atmosphere where any sicko can duplicate the killings for their moments of fame? These are very sick indididuals and should not be touted by the press in any way, shape, or form. Their names should be withheld and we need to concentrate on PUNISHMENT for the perpetrator, not continual bleating about their disadvantaged life or the fact that they were ridiculed in school. Start at the beginning and teach children not to be bullies, and to adhere to social norms. Reach out to these “odd” or “strange” kids and get them into therapy. Some are just plain evil and need to be locked away.

    One FAKE tear from Obama at a press conference doesn’t cut it.

    Gun confiscation doesn’t begin to work. Only the criminals will have guns and then we will have more and more incidents like these. Unfortunately, we are raising generations of kids with very few guidelines for moral decency and they don’t know the laws of God and the Constitution, and rarely have to answer to what they do. They’re given everything and nothing is expected of them; they are free to do as they please, and they do. God has promised to wipe the evil ones off the face of the earth when it gets too bad. What in heck are we waiting for? We just got the government we deserve because we didn’t do our part and demand voter registration; we didn’t demand DOMA; we didn’t demand that welfare recipients who could work, actually worked. We didn’t stand up enough to the atheists who demanded that God be taken out of government, schools, the public, etc. Now we have all of these things to deal with or begin to change them back to the kind of government we really need. We missed our chance for 2013…what are you waiting for now? The Apocalypse?

  • angelwannabe

    The gun control issue is and never was about the safety of our children, its about dismantling our right to protect ourselves & families.
    What happen in Newtown is horrific, there are no words to explain it. But we send our kids to school with the understanding they’ll be safe everyday, we’ll they’re not!_Not with “Gunfree Zone Signs” posted everywhere, they’re walking targets to a madman!___I say every public building should have 4-5 guns within in reach, 3-4 trained and bonded persons to handle fire arms, on the premesis at all times!__-Better yet, to those teachers willing, let them conceal carry. These bastards in office have secret service with high powered rifles and automatics with them at all times, why can’t we!!!_-Its BS!!!

  • John Lilleburnes Ghost

    Lies and [expletive deleted] again. Easy gun accessability makes Americas murder rates = to that of third world countries thats a fact. Well regulated is the key word in 2nd amendment and there is currently no effective regulation. How do we know there is no effective regulation? Simple around 35 gun murders everyday in the USA. In 3 days more people are killed by gun murders in the US than they are in the UK (a country that has no tolerance of handguns) in a year. Sure if you want to kill people you can do it with just about anything if you try hard enough but guns are purpose built for the job and make it easy. If you can accept for dead children for your “freedom” fine suck it up and spare the mealy mouth crap about “angels’ etc. if you want a safer world where tragedies dont happen then accept the fact guns really have no part in the solution to the problem. As someone who has lived all over the world your freedom is illusory to be honest most EU countries have far more personal freedom than you do. [expletive deleted] I got a ticket 2 weeks ago for walking across the road on a red! in the US I dont even have the basic right to weigh up the risks and walk across the [expletive deleted] road when I deem fit.

    • angelwannabe

      JLG___Guns or no guns you won’t stop all massacres, Twin Towers, Oklahoma weren’t perpetuated by guns, Besides, you can make anything a weapon!. Millions of drunk drivers kill people everyday, are ya up for banning cars too?…How’s about fat people, are you going take a way their forks to stop obesity?….Pencils can outen and eye or kill if hit in the right place, are we taking them off the selves?
      Would ya like to know why the increase in violence?…here ya go___No parents at home single or otherwise, hense no parental supervision of kids, constant exposure to violent TV, gaming, movies.
      The kids are now in charge, for when you smack they’re azz’s for misbehaving, they can call youth authorities on you and claim abuse, pre-program day cares raising kids, the lack of morality (even the GUV can’t legislate morality), taking God out of everything__Now, I ask you how’s MAN working out as a GOD?

    • Smitty

      JLG Your referenced “well-regulated” refers to the next word : “militia”. Which, at that time in history, was commonly meant to reference the armies, or the State’s armed citizenry. Usually under the control of elected or appointed officials; these were formed to act as the protectors of the property and persons of the State.
      These “militias” were kept “well-regulated” by the People of the State, whose right to bear arms had not been infringed.

      FYI:For Info ONLY! I have not seen this said anywhere so I will add it here. The AR platform semi-automatic rifle is indeed used as a HUNTING weapon. The farmers and ranchers find it quite useful in the control of coyotes and feral hogs. I would also guess that the .223 cal. centerfire cartridge would be legal in some, if not most, States for hunting deer. The guns chambered for .308 and other sizes would be suitable for other larger North American game.

  • Bud. USMC

    Right it is not about children, there is nothing worse than seeing kids die those of us who have seen it know how terrible it is, guns do not kill anyone it is the person holding the weapon that does if someone is intend on killing people they will fine away to do so.
    Bombs will kill more, if you can’t build one get on the internet it will tell you how, so we take away the internet. I could go on and on about the ways that can kill children and people, just watch the news.
    People who act out these terrible events are psychopaths most of them has been diagnosis as a psychopath before they are out of their teens. I have read studies done by doctors that know what these people are capable of doing, but in a free society until they act nothing can be done.
    The government and the news media make these acts with so much coverage that it sets up others to carry out these terrible events over and over again. If there were not guns available they would use weapons that would kill many more just as terrorist do.
    Many people don’t want to believe guns and the second amendment are what keeps the country free, but in reality its is the only thing that does. If you want to live in fear every day of your life let this happen, and all of your freedoms will soon follow and let me tell you living under complete government control will be worse than death. Look around the world hundreds of children are kill every day in some of the worst ways that you can think of, and violent video games sure don’t help. If there is an answer to this , it is going to be the way Texas school districts are starting to do. Trained personnel with in each school that are armed and capable to stop these attacks, GOD BLESS US ALL.

    • JC

      Exactly right.

      • Nick Czudy

        To Bud USMC. ” It is not the weapon that is the problem it is the man that is holding the weapon.”
        Yeah sure. But when that perpetrator has a assault gun that can mow down 30 kids in 20 seconds then it is a much bigger problem. Let him come in with a single bolt actions rifle and there will be much less needless deaths.
        Guns are far too easy to get a hold of. There is a gun mentality that has been implanted into the US psyche. Because there are so many people with guns, we better get a gun ourselves. This mentality keeps escalating with more guns in the hands of the bad guys and therefore more guns are needed in the hands of the citizens. It is a never ending problem.
        I am 61 and live in Canada. I have a pellet rifle for target practice. I have never in my life been threatened with some body with a gun and have never had one. I have never been in a situation that a gun was needed to stop a criminal. It just doesn’t happen except in rare situations. I do not miss not having one and I do not need one. We have almost the same rules that are being proposed by Obama and company. You have to start somewhere to reduce the number of guns and to reduce the number of assault rifles and high capacity magazines. start somewhere. It will not change over night, but 10 years from now, you will see substantial improvements in the number of people killed by guns and less crime. Start somewhere.

        • Frank Kahn

          We are all happy that you, as a Canadian citizen, are comfortable with your restrictions on guns, however, that is not germane to the conversation about our rights here in the US. Dont care how you handle it, we have the right to bear arms without restriction and that is how it will stay.

          • Nick Czudy

            Hi Frank. NO where in the second amendment, does it say without restriction. It seems a lot of people added that one in or are interpreting it to suit their desires.

          • Frank Kahn

            You are ALMOST right about it not having the words “without restriction” in it. And, yes, the interpretation of “no restrictions” is debatable by both sides. The problem seems to lie in the fact that you anti-gun zealots want to believe that you can RESTRICT certain types of ARMS without INFRINGING on the RIGHT to bear ARMS. It is a FACT that the LACK of wording, that RESTRICTS what WEAPONS it means when it says ARMS, that makes it UNRESTRICTED.

            It is sadly funny that people, like you, think that some form of regulation of firearms will prevent killing. It is also very scary that so many ignorant citizens think that it is okay to allow the RULERS of the WORLD be the only ones with ARMS.

            I WILL EVEN GO SO FAR AS TO SAY “WE TOLD YOU SO”, WE TRIED TO WARN ALL OF YOU THAT OBAMA WOULD MOVE TO TAKE OUR GUNS AWAY. ALL OF YOU OBAMA SUPPORTERS SAID “HE HAS NEVER SAID HE WANTS THAT, AND HAS DONE NOTHING TO SHOW THAT HE WOULD”, WELL NOW NICK HAS HE DONE SOMETHING THAT EVEN YOU CAN FINALLY SEE THAT SUPPORTS THE CLAIMS WE MADE?

            I laugh at the stupidity I read about how the NRA is paranoid for wanting armed guards in schools. How about the paranoia of anti-gun activists claiming that GUNS are the cause of all our problems in this society. Or the paranoia that owning ASSAULT WEAPONS or having GUNS with HIGH CAPACITY MAGAZINES will somehow turn someone into a mass murderer? I would need to research it but, I even read where some idiot gun control freak claimed that the US has more murders than the rest of the world combined. And, implying that this is somehow related to the number of guns available here. Maybe, if you eliminate government involvement in killing or state sponsored terrorism that kills thousands of innocent humans, it might be true. Of course, the hundreds, if not thousands, of kids killed as COLLATERAL DAMAGE in the drone strikes BY OUR GOVERNMENT ARE NOT MURDER. Using BOMBS, NEUROLOGICAL AND BIOLOGICAL AGENTS or AIRCRAFT are not MURDER.

            THIS IS NOT ONLY NOT ABOUT THE CHILDREN, IT IS NOT ABOUT STOPPING KILLING IN GENERAL, IT IS ABOUT CONTROL (PERSONAL FREEDOM).

            If you ignorant, pathetic, paranoid anti-gun zealots want to INFRINGE ON THE RIGHT TO BEAR ARMS, you will have to do it LEGALLY. You want to CONTROL ARMS, you will have to initiate a movement to AMEND THE CONSTITUTION OF THE UNITED STATES. Good luck getting the required 2/3 of the states to ratify that one.

          • Nick Czudy

            Frank….. 1) You said..”It is a FACT that the LACK of wording, that RESTRICTS what WEAPONS it means when it says ARMS, that makes it UNRESTRICTED. ”

            Weapons at that time were Muskets. It was 225 years ago. So your interpretation to be able to bear arms means Patriots can have 50mm anti tank, RPG’s, Bazookas, rocket launchers, missiles, Gatling guns, canons, artillery, tanks and machine guns. Since I think that most people will agree that these weapons should not be in the hands of the average citizen? Don’t you agree? I think that the handguns, revolvers, rifles, and shotguns would satisfy the ability to bear arms. These are arms. So why is it a total infringement of the 2nd to also add the high capacity magazines and assault weapons? You can bear arms and not have these types of military weapons.
            Because if you can bear these types of arms, then so can the criminals and terrorists.
            Do you draw the line anywhere in defining “Bear arms”?.

            2) You said…..”okay to allow the RULERS of the WORLD be the only ones with ARMS.”.
            the rulers would be the governors, congressmen, etc etc.. They do not carry guns, in normal day to day business, their security do. But they are not the only ones that are allowed to carry guns. Everyone sane American can. So why do you always take such an extreme view. The anti-gun activists are always trying to take away all of your guns. I have never heard a single politician say that they want to take away all arms. They are concentrating on the assault weapons and high capacity magazines. Once this ban has been in order for a decade or so. the availability to crazies, and criminals will dry up and make them less available. Then the assaults will not have as high of a casually count.
            Are you telling me that if two criminals are coming at you with guns you could not defend your self with a pump shotgun or Glock with a capacity of 10 bullets? Eventually these weapons will become rare.

            3) You said……”Of course, the hundreds, if not thousands, of kids killed as COLLATERAL DAMAGE in the drone strikes BY OUR GOVERNMENT ARE NOT MURDER. Using BOMBS, NEUROLOGICAL AND BIOLOGICAL AGENTS or AIRCRAFT are not MURDER.”
            You are bringing into this conversation war around the world. Would you rather that the US send troops in as they did in Afghanistan and Iraq? Are you willing to put those 1400 or more lives on the line and pay for them and their rehabilitation when they come back home? That is a war situation. I think that more lives have been saved then collateral damage with the air strikes. You are almost out of wars. Do not be so fast to get into another one. The issue that we all have been talking about this past week is reducing gun deaths in the USA. Please concentrate on that one issue. I firmly believe as well as many police experts that restricting these assault weapons will indeed reduce the death count here. This has nothing to do with the drone strikes.

            4) You Said…….” Or the paranoia that owning ASSAULT WEAPONS or having GUNS with HIGH CAPACITY MAGAZINES will somehow turn someone into a mass murderer?”

            No one ever said that having one of these weapons will make a gun zealot into a psycho murderer. (You are already psycho!) It is typical to deflect the issue to something else. What every one, that is calling for a ban in assault weapons is saying, is that if the assault weapons and large magazines were not readily available then there would be less slaughter for when these types of weapons are used for slaughter. Like in Phoenix with Jeremy Lochner, the citizens were able to subdue him, when he had to reload. This gives the victims a chance to escape. It will not solve every killing, but it is a step in the right direction.

            5). You said…..”Good luck getting the required 2/3 of the states to ratify that one.”

            Yes it will take 2/3 ‘s of the states to change the 2nd, but now is the time where the sentiment might actually be able to make it happen. It needs to get done. Now is the time. We do not want to wait for the next slaughter to anger Americans again.

          • http://www.wwsdeals.com Winfield

            It’s called “gradualization” dumbazz! … They take the guns, incrementally, with step by step restrictions, bans, registration, etc. One day to swoop in and confiscate all weapons in the hands of anyone except military and law enforcement.
            As for WARS, Your Obamessiah.said he was going to end these “Bush wars” and bring the troops home from these, farsical, false flag events. Wars with the covert purpose of limiting our freedoms in America via instituting the Patriot act, NDAA, etc.!
            The amendment to do away with the unconstitutional detention of American citizens was stripped by Sen John McCain’s commitee today. Another broken Obama promise. Oh, I guess that’s not his fault, it was done in a congressional committee. ( Sarcasm intended )

            PS. These are all steps toward the NWO. The puppets in DC are toeing the line!
            Obummer’s rating is up, the tears paid off, the sheeple are happy!

          • Frank Kahn

            I will take this slow and try to use small words so even a 2nd grader like you can understand.

            Your lack of ability to understand what is said is confusing you.

            Your inability to understand reality is clouding your judgement.

            You fail to make sense even at a basic level.

            You use false character attacks to deflect the discussion from its focus “No one ever said that having one of these weapons will make a gun zealot into a psycho murderer. (You are already psycho!) “. Please provide me with the psychological evaluation on me that gives you the right to assert this lie.

            The RIGHT to BEAR ARMS is what is said in the 2nd amendment of the constitution. It means exactly what it says, and you and your moronic slavering buddies will never change it.

            I will admit that, in the event that you attempted to enter my house, which I formally forbid you to do, I would be able to KILL you with a single shot muzzle loader musket. If I was actually psycho, I would probably just shoot one of your legs off to hear you scream.

            The desire to own weapons is not a matter of macho mentality nor is it a form of psychosis. The right to own weapons with the capacity to (if necessary) kill hundreds of attackers is not only not insane but is actually a good form of planning for the worst.

            There is no logic inherent in your vitriolic diatribe, only pure ego and hubris. Your are not even able to correctly identify what a true patriot of this nation is, so why do you insist on continuing your meaningless ranting. Sorry for the big words just then, if you need the definitions I will help you with that also.

      • JC

        That’s interesting Nick that you live in Canada. I’m originally from Arizona but have lived in Calgary a long time now. I own guns, a good selection in fact. Also as a matter of “fact” Canada is the third most heavily armed nation on the planet, don’t know if you knew that… I can buy an AK-47 and handguns here or almost any other kind of semi-auto. By the governments own estimates, there are over 80 million firearms in private hands in Canada. At the height of the now defunct gun registry about 7 million were registered. That worked well didn’t it? ;-)

        And if you do a per capita comparison, you’ll find that crime rates are about the same north of the border. That includes the number of mass shootings…”per capita”.

        So while you’re personal experience has been a relatively safe one…it doesn’t qualify as uniquely Canadian. It just means that like most people in the US and Canada, you’ve been lucky enough not to be on the receiving end of a crime…so far.

        Anyhow, a liberal is a liberal is a liberal…and they don’t make any sense wherever you find them.

        • Nick Czudy

          JC. Great that you once lived in Canada. But as typical right wing, gun monger, your numbers come from under the GOP umbrellas and are way off base. here is a link that summarizes a little closer the gun situation in Canada. http://www.gunpolicy.org/firearms/region/canada

          We have about 10 million civilian guns in Canada. Our total population is about 34 million. we rank 12th out of about 179 countries. We have 23.8 firearms per 100 people. You are closer to 123 guns per 100 people in the states. The last annual figure of total homicides in Canada was in the year of 2009 it was a total of 610; Gun suicides in 2007 was 3611. so the availability of guns encourages more suicides then criminal killing people. So if we are so close to the USA in high density of guns per capita. why is there so much more deaths in the USA? It is the gun culture and mentality. One trait is that gun owners get a sense of superiority and have attitude. Like you do. You probably like to intimidate people with your gun and are cocky and pushy when blogging to others with opinions that differ from you. Like you are. So that is the problem. Gun owners like you. You need to lose the attitude of superiority.

          So our gun deaths are much lower per capita compared to the USA. You are way off base when you said that our killings were in line with yours south of the border. The bulk of our killings are bike gangs due to drugs and crime, Crazies that kill prostitutes and cops, suicides and kids who kill them selves playing with the guns that were not locked up properly.
          I think that our better rates are due to our laws, background checks, and storage requirements. For instance the bolts have to be removed from a gun in transit and locked separately with the ammunition also separate and locked up. A;so the likely hood that we will need a gun for break in’s or a confrontation is about as likely as getting hit my lightning. So we have no need to have a gun. If you live on a farm or in the country, I can see having a gun for varmints and entertainment.
          The USA is the world’s leader in guns and killings. This does not count war zones like Syria at the moment.
          I think that your gun is your masculine phallus substitute. We come packing between our legs. haha. I am trying to push your buttons to counter your slurs. Just joking. From your commie, pinko left wing shadow. You need to listen to Rachel Madow, to get the real truth on the daily political happenings.
          Part of the problem of your mental conditions in the USA is your lousy medical institutions that are for profit and there is not money for mental patients and their treatment. So they are left out to lunch and brushed under the carpet. Obama Care will improve that for you. You are lucky.

      • JC

        Nick for the sake of argument, I stand corrected on the stats.
        Abd BTW I didn’t “used to” live in Canada, I DO live in Canada.

        As for the rest of your diatribe, it devolved into childishness almost immediatly and can’y be addressed on any serious level.

        As for my Phallus….try and get it out of your mind…I’m Married! LOL

        Thanks for the well wished Nick,
        I’ll continue to help Canadians become armed citizens (which is going very well btw) and teaching young hunters the finer points. You and your meds have a Merry Christmas.

  • Bill Schaubert

    Some say we should outlaw guns, then criminals will no longer be able to get them so the crime, shootings, etc. will stop. Let us define CRIMINAL(S) “people who break the law” so people who don’t obey the laws are criminals. Right? Why them would outlawing guns stop criminals from getting and using guns? If criminals don’t obey the existing laws why would they suddenly decide to obey that one? Outlawing guns will no more stop crime and shootings them outlawing drugs has stopped drug use and distribution. In fact it will encourage and make it easier for criminals.

  • John C

    First and foremost the liberals and gun grabbers miss the point. The school was a no gun zone. So there were no guns for anyone to shoot the coward when he came in with his trusty rifle. Cowards always go to place where there are no guns so they can perform their cowardly act without fear of someone shooting back. Ban the guns, welcome the cowards into commit murder.

    • Jeremy Leochner

      There’s no way for a mad person to know if people at a school are not carrying guns or any weapons. He did not target the school because it had no guns. He did so because he was deranged and wanted to take out his own personal problems on innocents. Having guns in school won’t stop a mad person from trying to attack. Though it might make children and teens think they need to have guns for protection and they might start bringing them to school. With respect I believe allowing guns in school will only provoke more school shootings, not stop the ones that happen.

      • Nick Czudy

        Jeremy, I agree with you. It will cause more problems then it prevents. A school might poll its staff and teachers to see if there is someone that wants to be trained and hide a gun under heavy lock and key to be used in case of an emergency. This person could receive training at the Front Site academy and be trained to handle the gun. If there is no one that wants to do this on staff, maybe a retired militia in the area would be happy to volunteer to take on this task and do some work and get some pay for patrolling the school. I do not think that they should be packing, but they could monitor the doors and get his gun out if there is an incident. They would probably be willing to put their life on the line and go out in a blaze. I bet you there would be lots of volunteers. Since there are so many, 2nd amendment fanatics, there will be a line up of volunteers.
        Now on a personal note, Jeremy, why did you shoot REP Gifford in Arizona? You are part of the reason for this vendetta on guns today. haha.

      • JC

        Jeremy, that is total supposition. You have no way of knowing whether this shooter took the gun free zone into account…NONE!
        And if there is a real threat to schools in a general sense, why wouldn’t we do what the (more intelligent) people of Israel have done…arm school staff?

  • ArkOlGrumpy

    While I agree with the notion that something must be done about mass murders like the recent one in Connecticut, there are any number of things that could be done, without taking guns out of the hands of law abiding citizens. For example, stop advertising schools as “gun free zones.” Is there any more effective invitation to someone bent on doing as much destruction as possible than to tell him or her that his or her gun(s) will be the only weapons in a target-rich environment? Kids certainly should not be allowed to take guns or other weapons to school, but what about allowing—or requiring—teachers and administrators to carry guns, after appropriate training? Virtually every courtroom in the country is supposed to be gun free, but probably the vast majority have armed bailiffs or deputies, and a lot of judges still carry pistols in their own courtrooms. Shooters might at least think twice if they fear someone in the school might be able to gun them down before they complete their mission.

    What about dealing—harshly—with those who commit these violent acts? How many of these obviously guilty knuckleheads are still breathing while awaiting trial or endless appeals or psych evaluations or whatever? Put them down, like we would a mad dog. Anyone who does something like this is, by most measures, insane, so why should insanity be a defense in court or, once proven guilty of the act, an excuse not to execute? Regardless of the reasons behind their acts, they do not belong in society, and society should have no obligation to preserve their existence.

    The “mainstream” media do not publicize the many instances in which guns in the hands of law abiding citizens deter, or even end, criminal behavior, because that is not the popular narrative, but countless examples exist. Agreed, statistics can be used to support every side of every argument, but there are statistics that show drops in violent crime rates in those states that have enacted concealed carry laws. And some of the most heavily armed countries (e.g., those that require military service of most, if not all, of their citizens) have some of the lowest rates of criminal gun use. Who are you going to attack, if you know everyone is armed and trained?

    More people are killed by drunk drivers than are killed with guns, but we do not outlaw cars, trucks or buses; in fact, we often do not even incarcerate drunk drivers, at least not until they are caught for the umpteenth time or finally do kill someone. How many youngsters drown in backyard pools every year? We do not ban pools in homes with babies or toddlers. We have tried banning alcohol, and we all know how that turned out. We still subsidize tobacco farmers, despite our knowledge of the toll of tobacco use. Why are guns such an easy target (pun intended)?

    Finally, one of the first acts of almost every despot has been the confiscation and outlawing of guns in the hands of the citizenry, with very good reason. Unarmed citizens are much easier to control and, in too many instances, exterminate. The numbers of innocent victims of corrupt governments are hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of times the numbers of innocent victims of isolated mass murderers. How did we get to be a country in the first place? Armed rebellion. You do not have to read much of Jefferson to know how strongly he felt about the right of citizens to protect themselves, not only against criminals, but also against governments. When Armageddon comes, whether it be because of, or despite, our government, ordinary citizens must be armed and prepared to defend themselves, their families and their freedoms.

    Something must be done, but taking everyone’s guns should not even be on the list of possibilities.

    • Charlie R

      ArkOlGrumpy: You make some very good points. They are logical and well thought out.
      Now, do you think liberals think that way? Liberals are emotional creatures
      and rarely deal with issues on an analytical basis.

      • Jeremy Leochner

        I am a liberal Charlie.I tend to look at things from an analytical basis. In fact I am autistic. So its kinda hard wired into me to analyze things.

      • Karolyn

        Charlie R. – Are you a psychologist?

      • Joz

        IS that why Obama did a FAKE TEAR ?

      • eddie47d

        Is that why Joz made a Fake comment?

      • JC

        Jeremy Leochner says:

        December 19, 2012 at 1:15 pm

        I am a liberal Charlie.I tend to look at things from an analytical basis. In fact I am autistic. So its kinda hard wired into me to analyze things.
        _____________________________________________________________________

        Jeremy, I’m sorry to hear of your condition and impressed with your honesty in saying so.
        Tell me though…was this condition always present, or might it have been the result of a vaccination? I know a couple of Mom’s who are quite convinced their child’s mental health was forever ruined by a vaccination so I’m just curious.

        Be Well

    • Charlie R

      To Jeremy : You are the exception to the rule.
      To Karolyn: My reponse to the question …. YES.

      • Karolyn

        And you have specifically studied liberals? Have you also studied the varying degrees of liberals as well as conservatives? Do you usually generalize in your diagnoses?

      • Charlie R

        In response to Karolyn’s questions:
        #1- NO , 2-NO, 3- NO

      • Jeremy Leochner

        Charlie if there are exceptions then your statement “Liberals are emotional creatures and rarely deal with issues on an analytical basis.” is automatically false. Liberalism and emotion and not thinking analytically have no connection if there are any exceptions. A liberal is not an emotional creature. An emotional creature is an emotional creature. Political ideology holds no bearing on an individuals personality. People of any personality can ascribe to any ideology. The ideology itself is not reflected by its individual believers.

  • cj

    When I was in the military a Drill Sargent told us what an Assult weapon was. In short it is the one pointed at you. The Police use the same type of weapons as the Military. What that means the government has more rights that the people they are working for. I agree that background checks should be required for every sale. The system is already in place and is used in most States. It seems that all the information is not available eventhough in the name of security the government can and dose have personal information on any or everyone as it sees fit. No amount of regulation has stopped crime. That is true of everything from murder to drunk driving. We can not stop how people act by passing laws, only by enforcement.

  • Charlie R

    “Never let a crisis go to waste” … this the perfect time for the Feds to register and then ban firearms … “just like England’ …. “England did it and it works, why shouldn’t we?”

    There you have it folks, reasons and the next step in the liberal mindset to insulate government from harm. It’s not about the children for if it were we would see a movement to ban the proliferation of violent entertainment and games. It is the present culture and proliferation of “entertainment violence” that seeds the minds of children in the developmental stages. “Freedom of Speech”( in which “violent entertainment ” is classified) will trump the Second Amendment. Lastly, the UN small arms treaty, if and when approved by a democrat senate, will be the final nail in the “Right to Bear Arms coffin” and thus usurp the Constitution.

    Obama is indeed “FUNDAMENTALLY CHANGING AMERICA” and will go “FORWARD”.

  • Richard Theilmann

    Remove all semi-auto weaponry and Multi-round mag’s (over 9 rounds) from civilians. There will still be plenty of GUNS {revolvers, 9mm hand guns, Bolt Action Rifle’s} for the Hunters and Sport Shooters.
    Restrict Bullets, the second amendment say’s nothing about Bullets. Ammo should be signed for and a deposit taken. No more than 12 rounds and you must bring back the empties before you can get another dozen, of course, at a Shooting Range, you can get more, but you can’t leave with them.

    Think about how many people “Oswald” WOULD HAVE KILLED IF HE HAD A SEMI-AUTO INSTEAD OF A SINGLE SHOT BOLT ACTION Rifle.

    Semi-Auto’s have no place in society. Where do we stop ??? Why don’t we have RPG’s for sale, how about a sholder fired anti-tank gun or a nice little 155mm…………The Far Right argument does not hold up.

    Recently, a deranged man entered a school in China with a knife {no guns allowed in China}, he slashed 27 children…… THEY ALL SURVIVED

    • Charlie R

      “No more than 12 rounds and you must bring back the MT’s.”
      Richard you are ” liberally brilliant” and it is obvious that you have never been hunting or gone to a shooting range. This is the most absurd suggestion ever made on the subject.

      • Richard Theilmann

        Charlie, I HAVE hunted and I never used more than 7 rounds. I’ve gone Turkey Hunting, Wild Boar and Deer. I ALWAYS positive ID my target, I guess YOU are a bad shot.

      • LIBERTY 273

        Richard Theilmann loves living in fantasy land with the rest of his anti-gun friends.

      • eddie47d

        Thank You Richard: Liberty 273 is the one living in his macho fantasy world. Yes multi-clip magazines make a weapon an assault weapon no mater what you say differently.

      • angelwannabe

        Yes eddie and in the Liberal fantasy world, you can take a piece of chalk make a circle on the ground, hang a sign that says “Gun Free Zone” and you guys think your safe from bullets!

      • JeffH

        angelwannabe, long time no see! :) Hope all has been well and Merry Christmas!

      • angelwannabe

        Hey JeffH, all is well and Merry Christmas! :)

      • JC

        Richard Theilmann says:

        December 19, 2012 at 1:26 pm

        Charlie, I HAVE hunted and I never used more than 7 rounds. I’ve gone Turkey Hunting, Wild Boar and Deer. I ALWAYS positive ID my target, I guess YOU are a bad shot.
        _____________________________________________________________________
        Well good shooting and good for you.
        What does that have to do with defending the nation from tyranny and criminals?

    • http://www.boblivingstonletter.com/ Bob Livingston

      Dear Richard Theilmann,

      You write: “Think about how many people “Oswald” WOULD HAVE KILLED IF HE HAD A SEMI-AUTO INSTEAD OF A SINGLE SHOT BOLT ACTION Rifle.” The same number he killed with that Mannlicher-Carcano: zero.

      Best wishes,
      Bob

      • Richard Theilmann

        OK, Bob, I guess “Oswald” is under dispute.

        My point is that a single shot Bolt action rifle allows for some TIME between shots, time that would allow action on the part of the people getting shot to intervene.

    • Charlie R

      Richard;
      it is wrong for you to assume you are responding to an individual that is “bad shot” .
      Without out getting into details, i am proficient and ” qualified” for ” one shot” long range targets. In addition, I am well versed in Internal, External, and Terminal ballistics. The old adage, “Practice makes perfect” applies here and that is a concept that you seem to disregard.

      Now “Mr. Richard, Excellent Shot” , think about what you are proposing: “gather up your equipment, drive to the range, post your targets, shoot twelve rounds, collect UR MT’s and your done at the range. Then take your 12 MT cases back for replacement? That makes a whole lot of sense doesn’t it Richard?

      Lets propose another impediment into your “brilliant idea”…. Your apparently such a great shot you don’t even recognize that there are people that reload their own ammo. What will you do with them? I await your response.

      • Richard Theilmann

        Charlie;

        We’re just kicking around ideas, but, do we really need Semi-Auto’s ???

        I don’t celebrate the fact that a slasher made it into a school in China, the point was that all the children survived and I understand that a teacher threw a chair at him and a few others tackled him.

        We can only speculate, but, If a single shot Bolt Action rifle was used in Newtown, CT. I think less children would be dead right now.

      • Charlie R

        To Richard; Since we are kicking around ideas, consider this;
        1- Russia banned firearms and their prison population is chock full of murderers killing without a firearm. 2- Sad to say but people have been killing people from day one.

        So, restricting weapons, including firearms, knives, clubs bows/arrows, yields a false sense of security. So, here is an idea that may have merit: Have very harsh penalties for offenders who use a weapon. And that is to say one mandatory penalty for the weapon another for the crime itself. On top of that, no parole when a weapon is used in the commission of a crime. (Additionally get rid of these violent games and entertainment that warp the minds of developing youth and are s protected under the freedom of speech amendment.)
        Please keep in mind that the founding fathers included the second amendment because they knew that government can and will become oppressive and therefore included the right to bear arms to give the citizenry a way to relieve themselves from tyranny.

        However Richard this may all be a moot point because president Obama may be poised to solve “the problem” with the ATT (UN) Small Arms Treaty . Then it will no longer be a question of semi automatics; it will be an issue of banning small arms from the US citizenry thru the UN.

        The real issue we now face now is our government “Never letting a crisis go to waste” and banning firearms altogether. Now please do not think this is far fetched. I trust that U R aware of the UN Small Arms Treaty that was signed by Clinton, now awaits Obamas signature, and senate ratification. If you read that treaty as it stands now, and if ratified by the senate, the US will have small arms ( gun ) control by the UN that can nullify the Second Amendment. Obama is working to get this treaty approved and, given recent events, he may make it his “signature legislation” to, as he recently said, “NEVER LET IT HAPPEN AGAIN”

        Good luck with your hunting efforts Richard, lets hope that the US FED and UN do not strip us clean.

    • http://dobyblue.wordpress.com dobyblue

      Oswald? lol, like he killed anyone.

  • softballscout@yahoo.com

    Banning guns because they are used to kill children makes about sense as banning public schools because that is where most of these massacres happen. I personally would prefer to replace the sign in the picture above with one that says “Support Private Schools, Save Our Children”.

    • eddie47d

      So you are saying all private schools have armed guards.

  • LIBERTY 273

    Flashy is as anti-American as they come. You “flashy” do not nor any of your liberal friends have the right to tell any American what they can and connot have. You can impose all the Laws you can regarding guns and it does not alter or deter criminals or “people” set on destruction. They dont give a damn about Laws!….. what do you not understand!…. People like you flashy turn this into a social issue, when clearly its a moral issue.

    And the so called assult rifle…. There is no such thing! Educate Yourself on the issue before opening your mouth. When the police have a rifle e.g. Ar-15 its called a tactical rifle and when the military has the same rifle its called a combat rifle and when the Law abiding citizen has the same exact rifle its called an “assult rifle”….. it was given that title by one of your progressive liberal self serving representatives. It was done to demonize people….. that is fact.

    When you take the Godly principle ( yes I said God) out socity and familys what do you think will take its place? Nothing that is good I can tell you. It is not the job of the police or the state or the government to protect people. The police show up to clean up the mess after the fact. Its not the job of an employer to protect their workers, it clearly is up to the people themselves to defend and protect their self and familys…. its time you stopped living in fantasy land and understand the cold hard world that people endure.

    Your gun-control representatives dont live in reality they live behind closed gates with armed body gaurds to protect them 24/7 and I think your delicate sensibility would be crushed if you only knew the type of arsenal these anti-gun politicians have themselves. Yes, they are hyporcrites!….. So do not infringe on my rights that are in the Constitution of the United States of America. Step off!….

    • Joz

      Liberty 272 writes: So do not infringe on my rights that are in the Constitution of the United States of America

      check this: http://www.deesillustration.com/artwork.asp?item=350&cat=politics

      • http://midcontent brand inspector

        Joz, you must have gone to a government run training center. The BS of the Constitution noy giving us rights to keeep or own any guns, is what the socialist/communist democrat brain dead professors have pushed for decades. The reason to own a gun, and the socialist democrats don’t want armentsin private hands, is because they want dictator run countries. Remember the nazis got gun registration and themm killed people, the Asian countries didn’t want private citizen armed in any way, because total control is the goal of dictator run governments. Something all socualist/communist dumborats always favor. Every time we have strictor gun regs are always from socialist democraps. Onumnuts admires and worships Karl Marx and communism and dictators, but idoit citizens aren’t smart enough to understand or read. Everyone good, bad, or ugly shlubs should be able to carry a firearm. A firearm always creates civility or remove offenders.

  • retired cop

    Several observations:

    To those who demand gun control, please wear a sign so that I will not offend you by stopping the person who is attacking you. If you want to be be beaten senseless or murdered, I guess that is your right. I wouldn’t want to interfere with your rights.

    How many years has personal accountability been shunned? Do you think the “liberal” refrain of “You can’t tell me what to do!” doesn’t have something to do with this? Do you remember the “liberal” mantra of the 60′s, “If it feels good, do it!” and “Don’t trust anyone in a position of authority!”? The lunatics have almost taken over the asylum and they intend to pay back everyone who tried to prevent them from becoming spoiled brats.

    The social environment we live in has been carefully crafted by the liberals over decades. They use false guilt and irrational “logic” to obtain their results. It is done incrementally and slowly, so many, otherwise intelligent people will accept it. If it was done all at once, such as what the liberals are doing with healthcare, the backlash would have occurred long ago.

    The useful idiots don’t realize, that when all is said and done, the vast majority of them will be lamenting that it wasn’t supposed to be like this. And, even THEY won’t be able to change it!

    God bless America, He is the only one who can save us!

    • jopa

      retired cop;Hey was that you in that Rodney King video? I think you may have been guilty!

      • retired cop

        I wouldn’t expect anything less from a liberal. Very, very seldom do liberals make any sense. Case in point, you claiming to be for something then laying waste to it.

    • Joz

      ”””To those who demand gun control, please wear a sign so that I will not offend you by stopping the person who is attacking you /shooting at you. If you want to be be beaten senseless or murdered, I guess that is your right. I wouldn’t want to interfere with your rights””.

      THIS IS THE MOST SENSIBLE/PERFECT SOLUTION TO THIS EPIDEMIC. Thank you for saying this. Let’s post this all over. From now on. everyone demanding gun control must wear a sign. That goes for all politicians…. let’s fire all their body guards ! Just think how much $$$ that will save our economic crisis also !

    • http://gravatar.com/bychoosing WTS/JAY

      Hear hear, retired cop, well stated!!! Ignore the useful-idiot, jopa the ZOMBIE…just another clueless parasite!

  • TIME

    Dear People,

    WOW, you will never guess who else wants to now BAN ALL Guns in America,

    “CHINA, is now DEMANDING” that all American citizens be disarmed in 2013. Based on the events of 12/ 14 / 12.

    There you have it FOLKS. Now China is now demanding what you can do here in America.

    Please do keep in mind that in China they have {“Mobile Excution squads”} that go around killing anyone who dare speak out or ask questions, these people are noted as “CRIMINALS of the State” .

    Thats to is what you will be noted as right here, perhaps this will break the chain in your minds free.

    This can mean feeding your family. How about ~ Being late to work, or GOD forbid you had dirrhea at work and took to long to get back on line, did you know that all of these are crime’s in China?
    Do you know they all are ~ punishable by DEATH….
    {As in NO TRIAL,} now think ~~ NDAA is the picture clear yet people?

    I have it from a very strong source from just one single provance in China that as many as { 1000 people per week } this number also included CHILDREN are rounded up and killed, for little to nothing – like having dirrhea.

    Just a few quick numbers; 1000 x 52 = 52,000 people per year and again ~ thats only in one Provance.. yet China thinks that 28 people killed is a CRIME, HELLO people,

    Now add all the rest – Now can you say “rapious behavior. ”

    “”This is what happens when Government takes away your guns people.””

    Wake the hell up.

    Peace and love Merry Christmas, Shalom

    • jopa

      Time;Are you on that crack pipe again. Put it away before you burn yourself and and lay down your firearm before you shoot yourself in the foot.

  • Tony

    Just had to say this. Flashy is the kind of person who thinks that the answer to eliminating child pornography is “camera controls”. Of course, an argument like that would only be proffered by a buffoon with absolutely NO understanding of human dynamics. Flashy refuses to recognize the fact that the killer of these kids was a nut job who was a mental defective. OH! I’VE OFFENDED FLASHY! I used a non-politically correct phrase! Well, a mental defective it is. And the coward, who stole the guns he used to kill innocent little kids and unarmed adults, would have been stopped at the get-go had just one teacher been armed.
    If Flashy wants to learn how to stop school shootings, maybe Flashy needs to go to Israel. There you can see the teachers with weapons. Once they started doing that, the abuse stopped. Yes, even fanatical terrorists are cowards. They’re like the school bully who picks on the little kids. Just punks who can’t hack it when it comes to a face to face with equal odds.
    So maybe Flashy can stay in never-never land and dream stupid dreams and formulate idiotic solutions… just as long as Flashy doesn’t really believe that his mentally defective arguments are going to get anywhere… except of course, with the mentally defective politicians that many have elected in this country.
    Are there still any doubts on why America has been on a downward spiral in the last few years? Check Flashy out. A prime example of the cause.

  • FreedomFighter

    Diane Finestien the biggest pusher of gun control ———> PACKS A CONCEALED WEAPON

    what a democrate politiecal 2 faced snake. She can have a gun to protect herself, but you cant.

    Laus Deo
    Semper Fi

    • http://midcontent brand inspector

      The socialist/marxist ddemorats are both liars and con men, does anyone here about the killer cars and motor cycles. We know the socialist want us all to drive matchbox electric vehicles, except for them or the eleitists. One thing about this nut job is that the taxpayers will not have to cover legal costs for the loon. The idea of a family committing a mental problem like clown, is the regs passed by the socialist dems, one reg is that mental nuts have to understand the reason they are being detained, talk about moron law, all voted for and drafted by socialist dems.

  • Tony

    Richard Theilmann’s arguments are a joke. I laughed for a while, but then the effect wore off. So I guess he doesn’t pass the “laughability” test. I don’t really think his statements deserve the time for a detailed response. I guess he celebrates the fact that a slasher made it into a school in China. Had just one teacher been armed and trained, the slasher probably would not have made it past the first door.

  • http://www.yahoo.com Mary

    No its not about children, Obama don’t care about that it’s his Socialist agenda that he want’s to be successful at! and to weaken America. if the terrorist attack us he wil be the first to run and hide!!!!!

  • jopa

    Freedom Fighter;If Ms.Feinstein is packing and that is her right to do so then I am pretty sure she will not come and take yours or anyone else’s guns away unless they are assault rifles that no sportsman would want or need.If you think you need six or more rounds to knock over a deer or a rabbit it’s best you take up shooting pool or perhaps ping pong.I am 100% for the 2nd amendment but not for clip capacities of more than ten shots.Time for America to get real and realize we do have a big problem.

  • Dee

    It seems to be mostly the dumocRATS that want gun control. There is two countries out there that have confiscated everyone’s guns and now they have more crime.
    They do have background checks, but should be more thorough and catch the ones that have mental problems.

  • http://gravatar.com/bychoosing WTS/JAY

    FROM PRESS TV:

    Today, Michael Harris, former Republican candidate for governor of Arizona and GOP campaign finance chairman, in an internationally televised news broadcast, cited “Israeli revenge” in, what he called, “the terrorist attack in Connecticut.”

    Harris cited Israeli “rage” against the US and against President Barack Obama. By “Israel,” we mean “Netanyahu.”

    The mission was to teach America a lesson, knowing that “America would take the punishment, keep “quiet,” and let a ‘fall guy’ take the blame.”

    A “fall guy” is another word for “patsy.”

    Harris, citing the flood of inconsistencies in the “cover story,” pointed out the following,

    “The facts are now becoming obvious. This is another case where Israel has chosen violence and terrorism where their bullying in Washington has failed. Israel believes the US “threw them under the bus,” particularly after the recent Gaza war, allowing Israel to be humiliated in the United Nations. Their response was to stage a terror attack, targeting America in the most hideous and brutal way possible, in fact, an Israeli “signature attack,” one that butchers children, one reminiscent of the attacks that killed so many children in Gaza?”

    Washington is terrified of Israel, their powerful lobby and its relationship with organized crime. Now, a key former Senator, Chuck Hagel, who has helped expose this fact, is likely to be nominated as the secretary of defense, despite vocal protests from Israel.

    Today, Israeli news gave further credence to Harris’ analysis when they issued the following statements regarding the probable nomination of Hegel:

    “Chuck Hagel’s statements and actions regarding Israel have raised serious concerns for many Americans who care about Israel,” said the Republican Jewish Coalition (RJC) Executive Director, Matt Brooks. “The Jewish community and every American who supports a strong US-Israel relationship have cause for alarm if the president taps Hagel for such an important post.”

    “The appointment of Chuck Hagel would be a slap in the face for every American who is concerned about the safety of Israel,” he asserted

    Citing a 2006 interview with Hegel, the news continued, “The political reality is…that the Jewish lobby intimidates a lot of people up here. I have always argued against some of the dumb things they do because I don’t think it’s in the interest of Israel. I just don’t think it’s smart for Israel.”

    Hagel also said he didn’t think he had ever signed one of the letters the American Israel Public Affairs Committee (AIPAC) regularly circulates to demonstrate support for Israel or tough stands against parties such as Iran.

    “I didn’t sign the letter because it was a stupid letter…I’m not an Israeli senator, I’m a
    United States senator.”

    Full article: http://www.presstv.com/detail/2012/12/18/278706/israeli-squads-tied-to-newtown-carnage/

  • gayle naar

    The US has a gun problem, weapons are available to the public which are not necessary. We can not continue to overlook this problem. many who own and possess these weapons does not have the ability to properly control their emotions and if they did there would not be the emotion of purchasing such weapons. I come from a family which hunted game and they never needed rapid fire weapons. In fact, they used weapons so as to preserve as much of the game as possible to feed our family.

    We also have lots of mental issues in which we do not address. Mental health care is very expensive and many health insurances does not cover the cost of treatment.

    The need of purchasing weapons used by military for killing, this is not a protection weapon. They are designed for killing. I understand many do not have regard for life of others and apparently believe their 2nd amendment right may be violated by banning certain weapons but forgetting they are still able to have weapons of reasonable means. We should also consider the right to life should not be determined by those who has the largest weapons. Perhaps having all owners tested on their ability to chose the right time to use a weapon yearly and also require liability insurance to possess weapons and ammo in order to weed out those incapable of possessing weapons they are not able to determine the proper time to use weapons.

    • JC

      gayle naar says:

      December 19, 2012 at 5:07 pm

      The US has a gun problem, weapons are available to the public which are not necessary. We can not continue to overlook this problem. many who own and possess these weapons does not have the ability to properly control their emotions and if they did there would not be the emotion of purchasing such weapons. I come from a family which hunted game and they never needed rapid fire weapons. In fact, they used weapons so as to preserve as much of the game as possible to feed our family.
      _________________________________________________________________________

      Actually we don’t have a gun problem, we have a criminal problem and a pharmaceutical problem. And that you’re family didn’t require rapid fire weapons to hunt game is completely irrelevant to the purposes of the Second Amendment.

  • http://daflikkers.blogspot.com/ blogengeezer

    Israel Gutman, ‘The Armed Struggle of the Jews in Nazi-occupied Countries’, in The Holocaust 457-98 (Leni Yahil ed. & Ina Friedman & Haya Galai trans., 1990).

    [46] Another strength of the chapter is that the authors merely mention in passing, but do not elaborate on, their theory from their previous book, that…….. the Nazi gun law
    served as a model for……. America’s Gun Control Act of 1968.
    Simkin et al, supra note 2, at 2.

    The theory is actually not quite as absurd as it might seem at first glance. The 1968 American law was primarily the work of …..Connecticut Senator Thomas J. Dodd,…..
    who served as a senior prosecutor on the American legal staff at
    …….’the Nuremburg trials’.

    Dodd was apparently familiar with the Nazi gun laws. See Lewis C. Coffin, Law Librarian, Library of Congress, to Senator Thomas J. Dodd, July 12, 1968 (sending Dodd a translation of the 1938 Nazi gun law, and noting that Dodd has supplied the Library of Congress with…… his own…. German text of the law).

    It is also true that Senator Dodd, as a Nuremburg prosecutor, had no reason in any of his professional work to need a copy of…… ‘the German gun control law’. Id. at 79-80.

  • charliep

    In response to Flashy’s UNODC’s rating; the figures you quote are for all of the
    Americas which includes 46 nations. The UNODC homicide rate for all countries are as follows, note that United States has a rate of 4.3.
    By country
    The UNODC’s study assigns regions and subregions based on the United Nations geoscheme. Note that Northern America is not North America.
    UNODC murder rates most recent year (full table here)
    Country Rate Count Region Subregion
    Burundi 21.7 1,726 Africa Eastern Africa
    Comoros 12.2 85 Africa Eastern Africa
    Djibouti 3.4 29 Africa Eastern Africa
    Eritrea 17.8 879 Africa Eastern Africa
    Ethiopia 22.5 20,239 Africa Eastern Africa
    Kenya 20.1 7,733 Africa Eastern Africa
    Madagascar 8.1 1,588 Africa Eastern Africa
    Malawi 36.0 5,039 Africa Eastern Africa
    Mauritius 2.5 33 Africa Eastern Africa
    Mozambique 8.8 1,925 Africa Eastern Africa
    Rwanda 17.1 1,708 Africa Eastern Africa
    Seychelles 8.3 7 Africa Eastern Africa
    Somalia 1.5 138+ Africa Eastern Africa
    Uganda 36.3 11,373 Africa Eastern Africa
    Tanzania 24.5 10,357 Africa Eastern Africa
    Zambia 38.0 4,710 Africa Eastern Africa
    Zimbabwe 14.3 1,775 Africa Eastern Africa
    Angola 19.0 3,426 Africa Middle Africa
    Cameroon 19.7 3,700 Africa Middle Africa
    Central African Republic 29.3 1,240 Africa Middle Africa
    Chad 15.8 1,686 Africa Middle Africa
    Congo 30.8 1,180 Africa Middle Africa
    Democratic Republic of the Congo 21.7 13,558 Africa Middle Africa
    Equatorial Guinea 20.7 137 Africa Middle Africa
    São Tomé and Príncipe 1.9 3 Africa Middle Africa
    Gabon 13.8 200 Africa Middle Africa
    Algeria 1.5 516 Africa Northern Africa
    Egypt 1.2 992 Africa Northern Africa
    Libya 2.9 176+ Africa Northern Africa
    Morocco 1.4 447 Africa Northern Africa
    Sudan 24.2 10,028++ Africa Northern Africa
    Tunisia 1.1 117 Africa Northern Africa
    Botswana 14.5 287 Africa Southern Africa
    Lesotho 35.2 764 Africa Southern Africa
    Namibia 17.2 352 Africa Southern Africa
    South Africa 31.8 15,940 Africa Southern Africa
    Swaziland 12.9 141 Africa Southern Africa
    Benin 15.1 1,262 Africa Western Africa
    Burkina Faso 18.0 2,876 Africa Western Africa
    Cape Verde 11.6 56 Africa Western Africa
    Côte d’Ivoire 56.9 10,801 Africa Western Africa
    Gambia 10.8 106 Africa Western Africa
    Ghana 15.7 3,646 Africa Western Africa
    Guinea 22.5 2,152 Africa Western Africa
    Guinea-Bissau 20.2 294 Africa Western Africa
    Liberia 10.1 371 Africa Western Africa
    Mali 8.0 1,157 Africa Western Africa
    Mauritania 14.7 485 Africa Western Africa
    Niger 3.8 552 Africa Western Africa
    Nigeria 12.2 18,422 Africa Western Africa
    Senegal 8.7 1,027 Africa Western Africa
    Sierra Leone 14.9 837 Africa Western Africa
    Togo 10.9 627 Africa Western Africa
    Anguilla 6.8 1 Americas Caribbean
    Antigua and Barbuda 6.8 6 Americas Caribbean
    Bahamas 27.4 94 Americas Caribbean
    Barbados 11.3 31 Americas Caribbean
    British Virgin Islands 8.6 2 Americas Caribbean
    Cayman Islands 8.4 5 Americas Caribbean
    Cuba 5.0 563 Americas Caribbean
    Dominica 22.1 15 Americas Caribbean
    Dominican Republic 25.0 2,513 Americas Caribbean
    Grenada 11.5 12 Americas Caribbean
    Guadeloupe 7.0 32 Americas Caribbean
    Haiti 6.9 689 Americas Caribbean
    Jamaica 52.2 1,430 Americas Caribbean
    Martinique 4.2 17 Americas Caribbean
    Montserrat 19.7 1 Americas Caribbean
    Puerto Rico 26.2 983 Americas Caribbean
    Saint Kitts and Nevis 38.2 20 Americas Caribbean
    Saint Lucia 25.2 44 Americas Caribbean
    Saint Vincent and the Grenadines 22.9 25 Americas Caribbean
    Trinidad and Tobago 35.2 472 Americas Caribbean
    Turks and Caicos Islands 8.7 3 Americas Caribbean
    U.S. Virgin Islands 39.2 43 Americas Caribbean
    Belize 41.4 129 Americas Central America
    Costa Rica 10.0 474 Americas Central America
    El Salvador 69.2 4,308 Americas Central America
    Guatemala 38.5 5,681 Americas Central America
    Honduras 91.6 7,104 Americas Central America
    Mexico 16.9 25,757+ Americas Central America
    Nicaragua 13.6 785 Americas Central America
    Panama 21.6 759 Americas Central America
    Bermuda 12.3 8 Americas Northern America
    Canada 1.6 554 Americas Northern America
    United States 4.2 12,996 Americas Northern America
    Argentina 3.4 1,360 Americas South America
    Bolivia 8.9 884 Americas South America
    Brazil 21.0 40,974 Americas South America
    Chile 3.2 541 Americas South America
    Colombia 33.4 15,459+ Americas South America
    Ecuador 15.2 2,638 Americas South America
    French Guiana 13.3 30 Americas South America
    Guyana 18.6 140 Americas South America
    Paraguay 11.5 741 Americas South America
    Peru 10.3 2,969 Americas South America
    Suriname 4.6 24 Americas South America
    Uruguay 5.9 199 Americas South America
    Venezuela 45.1 13,080 Americas South America
    Kazakhstan 8.8 1,418 Asia Central Asia
    Kyrgyzstan 20.1 1,072 Asia Central Asia
    Tajikistan 2.1 143 Asia Central Asia
    Turkmenistan 4.2 203 Asia Central Asia
    Uzbekistan 3.1 831 Asia Central Asia
    China 1.0 13,410 Asia Eastern Asia
    Taiwan 3.2 743 Asia Eastern Asia
    North Korea 15.2 3,658 Asia Eastern Asia
    Hong Kong 0.2 17 Asia Eastern Asia
    Japan 0.3 442 [8] Asia Eastern Asia
    Macau 0.7 4 Asia Eastern Asia
    Mongolia 8.7 239 Asia Eastern Asia
    South Korea 2.6 1,251 Asia Eastern Asia
    Brunei 0.5 2 Asia South-Eastern Asia
    Cambodia 3.4 448 Asia South-Eastern Asia
    Indonesia 8.1 18,963 Asia South-Eastern Asia
    Laos 4.6 279 Asia South-Eastern Asia
    Malaysia 2.3 604 Asia South-Eastern Asia
    Myanmar 10.2 4,800 Asia South-Eastern Asia
    Philippines 5.4 4,947 Asia South-Eastern Asia
    Singapore 0.3 16 Asia South-Eastern Asia
    Thailand 4.8 3,307 Asia South-Eastern Asia
    Timor-Leste 6.9 75 Asia South-Eastern Asia
    Vietnam 1.6 1,346 Asia South-Eastern Asia
    Afghanistan 2.4 712+ Asia Southern Asia
    Bangladesh 2.7 3,988 Asia Southern Asia
    Bhutan 1.0 7 Asia Southern Asia
    India 3.4 40,752+ Asia Southern Asia
    Iran 3.0 2,215 Asia Southern Asia
    Maldives 1.6 5 Asia Southern Asia
    Nepal 2.8 818 Asia Southern Asia
    Pakistan 7.8 13,860+ Asia Southern Asia
    Sri Lanka 3.6 745 Asia Southern Asia
    Armenia 1.4 44 Asia Western Asia
    Azerbaijan 2.2 206 Asia Western Asia
    Bahrain 0.6 6 Asia Western Asia
    Cyprus 1.7 19 Asia Western Asia
    Iraq 2.0 608+ Asia Western Asia
    Israel 2.1 159+ Asia Western Asia
    Jordan 1.8 100 Asia Western Asia
    Kuwait 2.2 59 Asia Western Asia
    Lebanon 2.2 95 Asia Western Asia
    Oman 0.7 18 Asia Western Asia
    Qatar 0.9 13 Asia Western Asia
    Saudi Arabia 1.0 265+ Asia Western Asia
    Syria 2.3 463+ Asia Western Asia
    Turkey 3.3 2,320 Asia Western Asia
    United Arab Emirates 0.8 39 Asia Western Asia
    Yemen 4.2 990+ Asia Western Asia
    Belarus 4.9 473 Europe Eastern Europe
    Bulgaria 2.0 147 Europe Eastern Europe
    Czech Republic 1.7 181 Europe Eastern Europe
    Georgia 4.3 187 Europe Eastern Europe
    Hungary 1.3 133 Europe Eastern Europe
    Poland 1.1 436 Europe Eastern Europe
    Moldova 7.5 267 Europe Eastern Europe
    Romania 2.0 421 Europe Eastern Europe
    Russia 10.2 14,574 Europe Eastern Europe
    Slovakia 1.5 84 Europe Eastern Europe
    Ukraine 5.2 2,356 Europe Eastern Europe
    Denmark 0.9 47 Europe Northern Europe
    Estonia 5.2 70 Europe Northern Europe
    Finland 2.2 118 Europe Northern Europe
    Greenland 19.2 11 Europe Northern Europe
    Iceland 0.3 1 Europe Northern Europe
    Ireland 1.2 54 Europe Northern Europe
    Latvia 3.1 70 Europe Northern Europe
    Lithuania 6.6 219 Europe Northern Europe
    Norway 0.6 29 Europe Northern Europe
    Sweden 1.0 91 Europe Northern Europe
    United Kingdom 1.2 722 Europe Northern Europe
    Albania 4.0 127 Europe Southern Europe
    Andorra 1.3 1 Europe Southern Europe
    Bosnia and Herzegovina 1.5 56 Europe Southern Europe
    Croatia 1.4 62 Europe Southern Europe
    Greece 1.5 176 Europe Southern Europe
    Italy 0.9 529 Europe Southern Europe
    Malta 1.0 4 Europe Southern Europe
    Montenegro 3.5 22 Europe Southern Europe
    Portugal 1.2 124 Europe Southern Europe
    Serbia 1.2 123 Europe Southern Europe
    Slovenia 0.7 15 Europe Southern Europe
    Spain 0.8 390 Europe Southern Europe
    Macedonia 1.9 40 Europe Southern Europe
    Austria 0.6 56 Europe Western Europe
    Belgium 1.7 180 Europe Western Europe
    France 1.1 682 Europe Western Europe
    Germany 0.8 690 Europe Western Europe
    Liechtenstein 2.8 1 Europe Western Europe
    Luxembourg 2.5 12 Europe Western Europe
    Monaco 0.0 0 Europe Western Europe
    Netherlands 1.1 179 Europe Western Europe
    Switzerland 0.7 52 Europe Western Europe
    Australia 1.0 229 Oceania Australasia
    New Zealand 0.9 39 Oceania Australasia
    Fiji 2.8 23 Oceania Melanesia
    Papua New Guinea 13.0 854 Oceania Melanesia
    Solomon Islands 3.7 19 Oceania Melanesia
    Vanuatu 0.9 2 Oceania Melanesia
    Guam 0.6 1 Oceania Micronesia
    Kiribati 7.3 7 Oceania Micronesia
    Federated States of Micronesia 0.9 1 Oceania Micronesia
    Nauru 9.8 1 Oceania Micronesia
    Palau 0.0 0 Oceania Micronesia
    French Polynesia 0.4 1 Oceania Polynesia
    Samoa 1.1 2 Oceania Polynesia
    Tonga 1.0 1 Oceania Polynesia

  • Steve

    What is really disturbing is the unanswered questions and lack of investigative reporting. How do these obviously sick people get these assault guns? What is the link to depression drugs found in the bodies of the perpetrators. What information is collected on gun owners in States that sell these assault weapons.Isn’t it against the law for a mentally ill person to own any gun? I thought Homeland security was supposed to protect us from terrorist attacks isn’t that why we gave up a whole lot of our constitutional freedoms. If the police and Homeland security can’t protect us from these crimes against humanity why would we ever want to give up our guns? Are they going to take our cars away next because some sick people use them as weapons of mass destruction?

  • Vicki

    Here is an intersting tidbit on backdoor registration.
    “Wal-Mart entered into an agreement in 2008 with the Mayors Against Illegal Guns that included video recording of purchases and the use of databases to identify people who have bought guns recovered in crimes.”

    http://www.teaparty.org/guns-out-of-stock-at-wal-mart-17464/

  • glad

    hay flashy. time for you to come and them. don,t be a coward and send someone else. you come. Im waiting flashy

  • Karolyn

    It’s very sad that now, when more and more people a realizing that more attention needs to be paid to mental health issues, funding to mental health is being cut yet again.

    • Vicki

      Nothing is stopping you from donating your money to the mental health institution of YOUR choice. Donate liberally today.

      • Karolyn

        Yeah, right, Vicki. If we had it your way, many more of the mentally ill would be homeless on the street than there are already. Do you have any idea the magnitude of the problem? And I’m not talking about your run-of-the-mill bipolar patient. If it were not for community mental health programs that do manage to keep running, things would be much worse than they already are. Without state mental health hospitals, there would be even less beds than there are currently, which is already too few.

      • Vicki

        I’m not stopping you from taking your story on the road and persuading others to donate to your cause. In fact I encourage you to do just that. What I WILL object to is the use of government force to make other people support your pet charity against their will.

        Therein is the key morality. Force vs Consent. You claim to be a positive person. If so then you know that you have no need of nor desire to use government force to take money at gunpoint to feed even good causes you espouse.

  • http://gravatar.com/bychoosing WTS/JAY

    There are several easily answered questions the local police and first responders MUST address immediately to help clear things up:

    1. What is the name of the man dressed in camouflage pants and a dark jacket who police pulled out of the woods in handcuffs?

    2. Where is the man from?

    3. What was that man doing near the school and why did he run into the woods?

    4. Has the man been cleared of any involvement in this massacre?

    This is another equally important fact which has been mostly ignored by the mockingbird media:

    Here’s the RAW audio exchange between police as the shooting was happening – This is the first responder police radio recording first posted by the Houston Chronicle,
    then by the NY Post.

    http://sgtreport.com/2012/12/so-many-questions-too-few-answers-was-the-sandy-hook-massacre-an-organzied-false-flag-operation/

    • JC

      I really hate to go the route of false flag here, but I couldn’t help but recognize a pattern at about the same moment my heart was breaking over the news. I’ve always wondered what became of the reports from eye witnesses that stated there were 3 guys shooting at the Aurora Theatre as well.
      I wouldn’t put anything past the NWO gang.

  • FreedomFighter

    Biggest democrat rat that is pushing gun control confiscation

    Dianne Feinstein has/had a concealed weapons permit

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B1EObqM9Z0s

    The biggest demon-rats in congress are packin heat… but they want to take yours away.

    Laus Deo
    Semper Fi

  • John W. Howard

    People I hate to bring this up but does anyone see the connection between all high profile shootings and a cry for “Gun Control” . In every case we here the government wanting more gun control. When it doesn’t work all of a sudden nut jobs start killing, you know like our government flips a switch and sends killers to the street. Look at the shooters. Who were there shrinks, what medicines were they on, and who were there families? Lets just state it like it is these shootings are STAGED!!!!!!!!!

    I remember another country that did the same thing back in the 1930′s. You can now look forward to concentration camps. Oh wait a minute they have allready started. Has anyone heard of FEMA camps?

    So thank Obama, The Congress, The Senate, Republician, Democrat, and SCOUS for a Merry [expletive deleted]Christmas! Oh and before I forget it also thank Sports, Media, Entertainment, and the rest of the traitors in this [expletive deleted] country.

    John W Howard

    • Nick Czudy

      John Howard. You are one sick puppy. Now I can believe that Cheney and his cohorts. orchestrated the 911 caper. But Obama staging this laughter just to be able to ban guns. Man, you guys under the GOP bubble really have some imaginations or you are too wacked out on gun powder..

      • John W. Howard

        Nick I’ve been around for more years than you have and seen a few more things than you have. I worked for this government for 10 years so just say I know!

        Well for someone so misinformed. I’m no follower of the Rebloodlicans or the Democripts and did not vote for Romney or Osama. Second Obama Bin Biden has been planing this for a long time, just like W and his handler, Bill Jeff, Bush 1 I’ll stop there but it goes back many years before this. Third Fast and Furrious comes to mind.

        During his time in the Illinois Senate, Obama said: “If he got the chance to ban ALL guns he would take it.”

        It seem’s your not as informed as you should have been before you voted to destroy america with Osama Bin Biden.

        John W Howard

      • JC

        John,

        Nick like most Liberals is completely unaware of the One World Government movement, aka the New World Order. He hasn’t studied enough history or had his eyes opened enough to see the big picture. That’s not a dig at Nick, it’s just sadly typical of short sighted narrow minded people who for the time, comprise the majority.

        Nick, no one is suggesting Obama did anything. I’m surprised he can string out a whole sentence without his teleprompter, let alone…

        No there are greater forces at work who have done a great many things to stampede the sheep in the required direction….towards tyranny.

        • Nick Czudy

          Hey JC.
          You are correct in me not being aware of the New World Order or One World Government. Give me a short description on what this is about. I assume that you do and are worried about it. I am open to see what it is about.
          As far as the typical right wing mantra, about Obama using a teleprompter in some of his speeches. I think that Mitt could have used one during his campaign and then he would not have put his foot in his mouth as much as he has. The same goes for W. Bush. Neither one of these GOP can speak off the cuff and fail dismally.
          Obama with or without a teleprompter is one of the most eloquent US presidents and his speeches sound natural and from the heart. This has been evidenced in the speeches in the last week. So ridicule all you want. Educated people know that you are really talking about all of the Right Wing movement. Speaking is one of Obama’s undisputed strengths.

          • http://www.wwsdeals.com Winfield

            Nick Czudy, are you a relative newcomer to planet earth? Just drop in from outer space somewhere? … Never heard of the PE [ Power Elite ]? … Illuminatti? … Tri Lateral commision?
            Etc. etc.?
            Or, perhaps you are their shill, a troll, whose job is to comfort the masses of ignorant sheeple, that chance upon this site, with your worshipful drivel? Or, maybe you are just a f’ing brainwashed idiot?

            What’s so sad, is there are so many, people like you, enthralled with the Hypocrite in Chief. You hang on every word he utters, and are so moved by the crocodile tears he sheds while mourning the victims in Newtown Ct. All the while he is sending drones to slaughter hundreds of innocent kids with nary a whit of conscience! .

          • Nick Czudy

            Winfield. You are the same paranoid, foul mouth, typical mad as hell, Rightie. An opinion cannot be given without deriding the writer. haha , This is so typical of living under the bubble. Can’t you come up with something new.?
            And of coarse every liberal leftie is a shill and troll. That is why every left leaning blogger, on this site, has been called a troll and shill. Man you guys are really paranoid. I am starting to worry. Do you have a gun. This is typical of a gun toter that will snap some day and start shooting lefties. Your hate is so rampant. That is why I suppose that the children were killed, because the gun men thought that they were spy trolls and shills.
            The difference in the drone strikes is that they are aimed at the bad guys. They are like rightist extremists, they like to hide among the women and children. Then they get killed as collateral damage. It is too bad that the GOP did not have any candidate to be able to go up aainst Obama. You had crazies like Bacheman, Santorum, and Newt. All are extreme and crazy. Is it smoking too much gun powder?

          • http://www.wwsdeals.com Winfield

            LOL, and you comment is NOT vitriolic. LMAO

          • Frank Kahn

            When responding to you, it is extremely difficult to not express the truth in your obvious failing as a human. It is not an insult to tell someone the truth about their insanity. Live with it, you are the one that has not one clue as to the reality of existence.

          • Frank Kahn

            I am happy you are in love with our insane president, maybe you will be happy with him when he moves in with you and your other boyfriends.

          • http://www.wwsdeals.com Winfield

            Frank, thank you and our fellow pro 2nd amendment allies for your well thought out, informative, rational, and in depth, comments my friend(s). Too bad they fall on deaf ears, but it is encouraging for me to read them. I believe, however, that we are “singing to the choir”. It appears futile to me, to try to reason with the staunch, anti-liberty, gun control mindset.
            If indeed, that IS all they are?
            Here’s a thought: perhaps their agenda here is nothing more than a method to expose us to the ever increasingly watchful eye of “big brother”? … After all, We are already classified as “domestic terrorists”. Now the task of locating us is underway, by getting us to expose ourselves in these public forums.

            Nick Czuda, really want an education on the PE? Illuminatti?… You can start here: http://www.newswithviews.com/Cuddy/dennis149.htm
            Go to his archives for an indepth education on the subject. Sorry it cannot be summerized in a “blurb” for you as you requested earlier. Winfield

            PS, I am 72 years old. A law abiding gun owner for 60 years and never have had so much as even a speeding ticket in my entire life. So, a “gun nut case” in danger of “flipping out”? I think NOT! …. But A Patriot, witnessing the constant errosion of Liberty, for SURE!!

            I am leaving the forum, it is a waste of the precious little time I have left to enjoy my “hillbilly life”, family, motorcycling, and GUNS.

            PPS, I am not a Bible thumper, but I do truly believe only the Creator can straighten this mess out. We are drawing ever closer to that day. To quote from the Lord’s prayer: “Thy Kingdom come, Thy will be done on earth as it is in Heaven”. Amen!

          • winfield smith

             

            ________________________________

  • http://gravatar.com/bychoosing WTS/JAY

    Eye-witness interviewed who saw two men running from the school, arrested, and placed in police-cruisers.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=apwTd-B_MP8

  • http://gravatar.com/bychoosing WTS/JAY

    Newtown Massacre…the MAJOR DISCREPANCIES LIST (add to it)

    1) As yet, we have not seen any concrete evidence that any child died.

    2) As yet, parents have not been allowed to see their children. (Photoshopped pictures do not count.)

    3) As of now, I have seen only one unambiguous statement from a grieving parent (Robbie Parker).

    4) According to the official story, Adam Lanza was found with his older brother’s ID, and it was not stolen. However, older brother Ryan–who officials say is very cooperative–claims not to have even seen his brother since 2010. Where would Adam get this ID? And why does such use not qualify as a theft?

    5) According to the official story, Adam Lanza was wearing a black outfit with a mask and bulletproof vest. Why would he want to hide his identity, and why would he wear a bulletproof vest, if he planned to kill himself?

    6) The medical examiner asserts that all wounds were caused by a rifle or other long weapon, and police/FBI say that the school was littered with .223 (rifle) casings. But Adam Lanza was found dead in the school with only handguns –a rifle was found in the trunk of his car. But then he could not possibly have been firing the rifle, and could not have committed the murders. Who did?

    7) According to the official story, the killing was tightly confined to two classrooms. But then why were so many children told to close their eyes while leaving the building?

    8 ) Joanne Didonato, the principal’s secretary, called in sick on Friday–something she rarely does. So presumably, she must have been awfully ill. Yet she then felt well enough to give an interview. “Of all days,” she said, emphasizing the strange coincidence.

    9) The hospital went into lockdown and cleared four trauma rooms, but received only three patients, two of them dead children (according to the official story) and one mildly wounded adult.

    10) Why were there such persistent reports that Mrs. Lanza was a kindergarten teacher, and that she died at the school, when the new official story is that she was not connected to the school and was killed at home?

    11) What happened to the report that Adam Lanza’s girlfriend and another friend were missing in New Jersey?

    12) What happened to the woodsman in a black jacket and camo pants who was arrested and handcuffed outside the school? He actually shouted to parents, “It wasn’t me.” Who was he and what was he doing there?

    13) What happened to the dark van or SUV that the police surrounded in the parking lot, or the maroon sedan with a blown-out back window they were on the lookout for?

    14) The official story is that Nancy Lanza was a gun collector who obeyed the law. But since 20-year-olds are not permitted to buy guns or ammo or carry guns in Connecticut, why would she give her “autistic” son access to both guns and ammo?

    15) Why were parents told on Friday that “if you haven’t been reunited with your child by now it’s already over”? Does anyone imagine that real parents of real children would simply say, “Okay, the show’s over, let’s go home now”?

    16) Would real parents of real children really be satisfied with (possibly photoshopped) pictures of their children? Wouldn’t they demand to see their children one last time firsthand?

    17) According to the official story, 28 people died but only 1 was wounded. The dead included 20 small, squirmy children– difficult targets even for professionals. How could Adam Lanza achieve such amazingly deadly accuracy, in such a short length of time?

    18 ) A child asserts that he/she heard someone say, “Put your hands up,” followed by the reply, “Don’t shoot.” This indicates that the police took a suspect into custody inside the school. But if that was Adam Lanza, how did he kill himself after that point?

    19) Another child asserts that he/she saw a man pinned down to the ground with handcuffs on. Again, this indicates that the police took a suspect into custody. If that was Adam Lanza, how did he then kill himself?

    20) When Ryan Lanza was falsely identified as the shooter, who deleted his Facebook profile and created many others in his name?

    21) Is it reasonable for a geeky 20-year-old to carry two pistols and hundreds of rounds of ammunition while wearing a bulletproof vest and a mask?

    22) Why did the police say on Friday that they were going to leave the bodies rotting in the school until Sunday, then Saturday morning announce that they had spirited the bodies away in the middle of the night? Perhaps to ensure that the transport, if any, would go unrecorded on photos or video?

    23) Why won’t police tell us where they found the Henry repeating rifle, the Enfield rifle, and the shotgun?

    24) Did the school have one or more security cameras? What do they show?

    25) Why did a police officer specifically mention, on radio, that “they’re coming at me through this wood,” followed by a fellow officer saying, “This is it”?

    26) One officer in the school said, “We’ve got one suspect down.” Who was that? Down in this situation generally means in custody (on the ground and cuffed), not dead.

    27) Why didn’t Adam’s uncle see anything out of the ordinary in Adam when the two saw each other in June?

    28 ) Why is Adam Lanza reported to be a loner when a teenager said (oxymoronically), “[Lanza and his friends] always gathered alone in a corner in school”?

    29) Why did police assign an individual state trooper to every grieving family, whether the family wants such “protection” or not?

    30) Why are Ryan Lanza and his roommates still in custody, and why are the police pretending that it’s for their own benefit?

    31) Is it a coincidence that Nancy Lanza’s brother is Kingston Police Officer James
    Champion, who lives next door to the former Lanza home?

    http://sgtreport.com/2012/12/so-many-questions-too-few-answers-was-the-sandy-hook-massacre-an-organzied-false-flag-operation/

  • http://gravatar.com/bychoosing WTS/JAY

    December 16, 2012 – After all the weird coincidences with the Colorado Movie Theater “incident” and Batman… now check this one out.

    In this movie scene (1:58 into the movie) from Dark Knight Rises, “Sandy Hook” is about the only legible text on the whole map (look left of the walkie talkie in the screenshot above), and a guy puts his fingers on it.

    Someone says the dialogue at this point is “There are no coincidences.”. But we haven’t verified that, yet.

    Allegedly the Illuminati code of conduct mandates that they must place warnings of upcoming events. They don’t have to be particularly clear, but they must be there.

    Video should be in full mode to see “Sandy Hook” written on the map.

    Coincidence? You be the judge.

    http://www.disclose.tv/news/SANDY_HOOK_Reference_in_Batman_Movie/87648#ixzz2FY5uXCPQ

  • JON

    One failed attempt at a shoe bomb and we all take off our shoes at the airport.
    Thirty-one school shootings since Columbine and no change in our regulation of guns.

    • http://gravatar.com/bychoosing WTS/JAY

      What changes would you like to see, exactly?

      • JON

        I would like to see thorough background checks, a firearms license, and training for the proper use of a firearm—All mandatory.

        No online gun sales. No access to military grade assault rifles. No one really needs one except military or law enforcement.

      • http://gravatar.com/bychoosing WTS/JAY

        JON: I would like to see thorough background checks, a firearms license, and training for the proper use of a firearm—All mandatory.

        All of the above already observed by law-abiding citizens, JON. The problem is the unregulated black-market! Any suggestions?

        JON: No online gun sales. No access to military grade assault rifles. No one really needs one except military or law enforcement.

        Yeah, however, the drug-cartels and the criminal-population seem to be of the opinion that they qualify to be in possession of military grade assault rifles, JON! Understand something, JON, the problem is not law-abiding citizens, the problem is the criminal-element who doesn’t give a rat’s azz what YOU or the LAW thinks, and laughs at your silly-little recommendations!!! You can shut-down all registered and compliant gun-stores in America, convince all law-abiding citizens to turn in their guns, and guess what? The criminal-element will still be in possession of their deadly-weapons. And btw, who do you think our politicians work for, law-abiding citizens? You’re a dreamer, JON!

    • Vicki

      JON says:
      “Thirty-one school shootings since Columbine and no change in our regulation of guns.”

      Sad really. 31 (do you have a link to the cite) school Gun-Free zone shootings and we still can’t figure out that Gun-Free zones DON’T WORK.

  • AWKingsley

    When China says the U.S. needs gun control, that is like an unchained maniac telling someone he wants to shoot at young school children, a very “soft target”. At the beginning of World War II, prior to the bombing of Pearl Harbor, a suggestion was made to invade the U.S.; General Yamamoto of Japan responded, “No, there is a gun behind every door in the U.S.” Keeping Semi-Automatic Assault rifles and magazine clips behind as many doors in the U.S. as possible is a strong deterrent. We do not need to present the U.S. as a “soft target” to every tough country out there in the world who would like to run over us, especially those countries to whom we owe a lot of money.

  • John Adams

    Guns have been with us for hundreds of years, and it stands to reason that they will never, ever cease to exist. They will continue to be carried, and to be used to prosecute many different courses of action by the persons who carry them, whether for ‘good’ or ‘evil’. In war, (a special case) one side’s ‘good’ is generally the other side’s ‘evil’. In civil society, the typical example of a ‘good’ use is typically a defensive one, even if the act of defense itself has an ‘offensive profile’ (e.g. firing a weapon at a madman with a gun). The typical example of an ‘evil’ use is when guns are employed in committing crimes – armed robbery, kidnapping, assault while at gunpoint, and so on.

    In addition to good and evil, the common law provides a definition of ‘insanity’ that acknowledges the possibility that a person may truly not know or recognize that what they are doing is ‘wrong’, or ‘evil’, or even just ‘illegal’. This lethal combination – of insanity accompanied with firearms – is the very essence of Sandy Hook and many other similar incidents, no matter where they might occur, or who the targets may be. In such situations, we do not bear witness to ‘good’ or ‘evil’ acts, but rather the acts of a homicidal individual with considerable firepower, literally at his fingertips, who is not ‘sane’ in any reasonable definition of the word. Can laws, any laws, or their diligent enforcement stop such incidents? No, they cannot, and it is nothing more than wishful thinking to suppose otherwise.

    So, what about ‘gun control’? Are we for it? Are we against it? To reduce this question to a binary-style, yes-no proposition is sheer stupidity. ‘Gun control’, as a concept in civil law, and with some degree of enforced legal prohibition, has existed for almost as long as guns have. And, to the extent that it is possible to determine who should and should not be able to buy a gun – legally – the laws of the land are proof of that fact. That guns (and ammunition) are bought and sold through specific outlets, all of which hold licenses to sell firearms, and only to those would-be buyers who can present the proper identification, is further evidence that our society favors some degree of control over the ownership of such easy-to-use, lethal weapons. This in itself is the very model of common sense, so far as it goes.

    Beyond these simple limits, we tend to find greater and greater disagreement. A clash of perceived “rights” occurs: the right to live in society without fear of being shot at vs. the right to carry a weapon that can be used to shoot. The courts are eternally wrestling with the conflicts between various rights, and case law is deluged with judicial opinions in which one right supersedes another. Most lawyers and judges are inclined to say that such instances are neither unique nor unusual, but all require individual deliberation, along with the application of precedent and statutory guidelines in each particular case.

    All of this is well and good. With the exception of a fringe of political extremists, some of whom believe in total anarchy and the supremacy of the individual, others who believe that national socialistic controls are necessary to achieve peace and progress for all, most of us are relatively content with gun laws as they stand.

    If, perhaps, we are less content with our gun control laws when incidents such as Sandy Hook occur, perhaps it’s because we are so brutally reminded of the unstoppable, barbaric power that guns – as a class of weapon – are capable of putting in the hands of cowards, fools, and the insane. We WISH that there was a way to prevent such tragedies from ever happening again, and we look for a ‘systemic solution’ where there is none to be found. It is ironic that such one-time, perfect solutions have themselves gained the moniker “silver bullet” solutions. In the real world we are usually forced to admit that they simply don’t exist, and pragmatic folk will remind us that no law can stop a madman.

    In reference to this last paragraph, I would like to take issue with Bob Livingston’s closing remarks, where he says: “Politicians don’t care about children. All they care about is stealing liberty and acquiring more power.” Bob, I hope you will agree that beneath all the partisan posturing and pontificating, politicians are flesh and blood, just like everyone else. Many have wives, or husbands, and many have children, too. They love and care for these treasured family members, just as the rest of the citizenry does. Their positions in politics put them in front of more microphones, and their opinions are quoted more often. As such it is inevitable that some of the things I said in the last paragraph would naturally come to their lips as they scratch around, seeking in vain to provide some direction, some assurance, and some consolation as they respond to this tragedy and the death of so many innocents.

    I can forgive them their humanity, but I do not believe there is a “silver bullet” for this issue; increasing gun control through legislation is not likely to make much difference, if any, in stopping such massacres in the future. Better, we should be vigilant as members of our community, and look for warning signs, particularly among adolescents, who are going through life-altering changes, physically and emotionally, and need our support as they grope with the reality of adulthood and its responsibilities. When they go off the rails, and a gun is within reach, we will surely see more bloodshed.

    • Vicki

      John Adams writes:
      “We WISH that there was a way to prevent such tragedies from ever happening again, and we look for a ‘systemic solution’ where there is none to be found.”

      You may look. We have already found the solution that has and will prevent such tragedies from ever happening again.

      END THE GUN FREE ZONE Killing fields.

      It’s that simple. Here is just ONE example of a tragedy that didn’t happen.
      http://minutemennews.com/2012/12/oregon-mall-shooting-brave-citizen-with-concealed-carry-may-have-saved-lives/

      2 more were in an article right here on PLD.
      “Two Possible Mass Shootings Stopped By Armed Americans
      December 19, 2012 by Sam Rolley ”

      John Adams: “….pragmatic folk will remind us that no law can stop a madman.”

      Pragmatic folk will remind you that a law abiding citizen with a GUN can, has, and WILL stop a mad man.

      John Adams: “Bob, I hope you will agree that beneath all the partisan posturing and pontificating, politicians are flesh and blood, just like everyone else. Many have wives, or husbands, and many have children, too. They love and care for these treasured family members, just as the rest of the citizenry does.”

      They care for their own MORE then they care for yours. Proof in the convenient exemptions they write into the laws they expect YOU to obey.

  • http://gravatar.com/bychoosing WTS/JAY

    Want to stop the violence? Here is the answer:

    Thanks to Watcher Tom for this list!

    Eric Harris age 17 (first on Zoloft then Luvox) and Dylan Klebold aged 18 (Colombine school shooting in Littleton, Colorado), killed 12 students and 1 teacher, and wounded 23 others, before killing themselves. Klebold’s medical records have never been made available to the public.

    Jeff Weise, age 16, had been prescribed 60 mg/day of Prozac (three times the average starting dose for adults!) when he shot his grandfather, his grandfather’s girlfriend and many fellow students at Red Lake, Minnesota. He then shot himself. 10 dead, 12 wounded.

    Cory Baadsgaard, age 16, Wahluke (Washington state) High School, was on Paxil (which caused him to have hallucinations) when he took a rifle to his high school and held 23 classmates hostage. He has no memory of the event.

    Chris Fetters, age 13, killed his favorite aunt while taking Prozac.

    Christopher Pittman, age 12, murdered both his grandparents while taking Zoloft.

    Mathew Miller, age 13, hung himself in his bedroom closet after taking Zoloft for 6 days.

    Jarred Viktor, age 15, stabbed his grandmother 61 times after 5 days on Paxil.

    Kip Kinkel, age 15, (on Prozac and Ritalin) shot his parents while they slept then went to school and opened fire killing 2 classmates and injuring 22 shortly after beginning Prozac treatment.

    Luke Woodham, age 16 (Prozac) killed his mother and then killed two students, wounding six others.

    A boy in Pocatello, ID (Zoloft) in 1998 had a Zoloft-induced seizure that caused an armed stand off at his school.

    Michael Carneal (Ritalin), age 14, opened fire on students at a high school prayer meeting in West Paducah, Kentucky. Three teenagers were killed, five others were wounded..

    A young man in Huntsville, Alabama (Ritalin) went psychotic chopping up his parents with an ax and also killing one sibling and almost murdering another.

    Andrew Golden, age 11, (Ritalin) and Mitchell Johnson, aged 14, (Ritalin) shot 15 people, killing four students, one teacher, and wounding 10 others.

    TJ Solomon, age 15, (Ritalin) high school student in Conyers, Georgia opened fire on and wounded six of his class mates.

    Rod Mathews, age 14, (Ritalin) beat a classmate to death with a bat.

    James Wilson, age 19, (various psychiatric drugs) from Breenwood, South Carolina, took a .22 caliber revolver into an elementary school killing two young girls, and wounding seven other children and two teachers.

    Elizabeth Bush, age 13, (Paxil) was responsible for a school shooting in Pennsylvania

    Jason Hoffman (Effexor and Celexa) – school shooting in El Cajon, California

    Jarred Viktor, age 15, (Paxil), after five days on Paxil he stabbed his grandmother 61 times.

    Chris Shanahan, age 15 (Paxil) in Rigby, ID who out of the blue killed a woman.

    Jeff Franklin (Prozac and Ritalin), Huntsville, AL, killed his parents as they came home from work using a sledge hammer, hatchet, butcher knife and mechanic’s file, then attacked his younger brothers and sister.

    Neal Furrow (Prozac) in LA Jewish school shooting reported to have been court-ordered to be on Prozac along with several other medications.

    Kevin Rider, age 14, was withdrawing from Prozac when he died from a gunshot wound to his head. Initially it was ruled a suicide, but two years later, the investigation into his death was opened as a possible homicide. The prime suspect, also age 14, had been taking Zoloft and other SSRI antidepressants.

    Alex Kim, age 13, hung himself shortly after his Lexapro prescription had been doubled.

    Diane Routhier was prescribed Welbutrin for gallstone problems. Six days later, after suffering many adverse effects of the drug, she shot herself.

    Billy Willkomm, an accomplished wrestler and a University of Florida student, was prescribed Prozac at the age of 17. His family found him dead of suicide – hanging from a tall ladder at the family’s Gulf Shore Boulevard home in July 2002.

    Kara Jaye Anne Fuller-Otter, age 12, was on Paxil when she hung herself from a hook in her closet. Kara’s parents said “…. the damn doctor wouldn’t take her off it and I asked him to when we went in on the second visit. I told him I thought she was having some sort of reaction to Paxil…”)

    Gareth Christian, Vancouver, age 18, was on Paxil when he committed suicide in 2002,

    (Gareth’s father could not accept his son’s death and killed himself.)

    Julie Woodward, age 17, was on Zoloft when she hung herself in her family’s detached garage.

    Matthew Miller was 13 when he saw a psychiatrist because he was having difficulty at school. The psychiatrist gave him samples of Zoloft. Seven days later his mother found him dead, hanging by a belt from a laundry hook in his closet.

    Kurt Danysh, age 18, and on Prozac, killed his father with a shotgun. He is now behind prison bars, and writes letters, trying to warn the world that SSRI drugs can kill.

    Woody ____, age 37, committed suicide while in his 5th week of taking Zoloft. Shortly before his death his physician suggested doubling the dose of the drug. He had seen his physician only for insomnia. He had never been depressed, nor did he have any history of any mental illness symptoms.

    A boy from Houston, age 10, shot and killed his father after his Prozac dosage was increased.

    Hammad Memon, age 15, shot and killed a fellow middle school student. He had been diagnosed with ADHD and depression and was taking Zoloft and “other drugs for the conditions.”

    Matti Saari, a 22-year-old culinary student, shot and killed 9 students and a teacher, and wounded another student, before killing himself. Saari was taking an SSRI and a benzodiazapine.

    Steven Kazmierczak, age 27, shot and killed five people and wounded 21 others before killing himself in a Northern Illinois University auditorium. According to his girlfriend, he had recently been taking Prozac, Xanax and Ambien. Toxicology results showed that he still had trace amounts of Xanax in his system.

    Finnish gunman Pekka-Eric Auvinen, age 18, had been taking antidepressants before he killed eight people and wounded a dozen more at Jokela High School – then he committed suicide.

    Asa Coon from Cleveland, age 14, shot and wounded four before taking his own life. Court records show Coon was on Trazodone.

    Jon Romano, age 16, on medication for depression, fired a shotgun at a teacher in his
    New York high school.

    Perhaps rather than gun-control, we should be looking closer to instituting pharma-
    control?

    • Charlie R

      Look at the ages of the killers listed above, Now tell me that violent entertainment, video games and other related cultural deficiencies do not have a bearing child development.

      Maybe its time to regulate who can purchase and use these things. Better yet why not regulate the industry that produces this trash. Now, that might be governmental regulation that will accomplish some good.

      • http://gravatar.com/bychoosing WTS/JAY

        You’ll get no argument from me, Charlie R. In fact, I think you make a good case. Certainly, these video-games could be considered a contributing factor. Combined the with psychotropic drugs, and well, anything is possible. No doubt about it! I suggest you check out this eye-opening article which will confirm your worst fears.

        http://www.crossroad.to/articles2/2003/occult-rpg.htm

  • rlo

    I will not give up my liberty regardless of the actions of others. What I would like to know is the medical history of the kid and how long he used prescribed medication. We are now witnessing the results of societies misuse of meds instead of discipline.

  • Roy Fredrichsen

    There are enough laws on the judicial books to handle all infractions related to the illegal use of guns. No criminal obeys any laws. Disarming the American public guarantees that a criminal will have NO resistence from his victims. Further, anyone, sane or insane will obtain a gun even if he has to steal it from a law abiding citizen. So passing stringent laws do nothing to secure safety for anyone. Look at the records readily available from the F.B.I.

  • http://Personallibertydigest Bernard Ovverstreet

    The gun killed the children like my fork made my fat. Come on. The one thing all of your mass shooters have is their mental instability. It would seem that if new laws were to be passed it would be to screen gun buyers more thoroughly on their mental histories. The Georgia Tech shooter had a poor mental history,the shooter who shot Congreswoman Giffords had a poor mental picture, the shooter at the Batman screening you can tell just by looking at him that he was a few cards short of a deck. I could probably go on all night and the picture would be the same. As I said before the gun didn’t kill anyone, JUst like my fork never made me fat. End of story.

  • Ronald Van Winckel

    Guns don’t kill people, people kill people. We need more control about people who have mental problems and aquire guns.

  • Kenneth Boyer

    Totally agree the ‘ban the gun folks’ are working on a totally differemt adgenda than to protect children. The elite, progressives or what ever they call commies now along with the new world order are out to take over the USA and force their ideaology on us. I’m also thinking the MID EASTERN REGION types are in there too. DO NOT FALL FOR THIS BS. I will reinterate what I have said since this mass murder started in schools and other concentrated person areas. Harden up the enterances to schools and public buildings. All this pretty glass and soft doorways are the problem. A locked glass door will not stop bullets knocking it out. Make it so tough to enter a building without permission, perps will move on. . Install Sally Ports on all school front doors for visitor access. Seems most of these whackos like to park at the front door???? Reinforce all other doors and lock them during school hours. My school district has done a pretty good job of securing our schools. Just hope all these progressive or liberal districts realize the world is dangerous and the bad guys don’t play by any civil laws or standards of humanity. A bad scolding will not stop them…. .

  • TIME

    Dear People,

    We have done an exhaustive backround search on the alledged Medical Examier in this noted case,
    THUS far after three days ~ we can find “NO records” of any person named: { H. Wayne Carver } who has ever recieved any medial degree of any kind ~ within CONUS or any where on the planet earth who works for the state of CONnecticut..

    We can find NO Computer foot print on this person at all. ~ That is other than whats been generated over the last week, {otherwise there is ZERO information } and that includes the state of Connecticut’s medical examiner employment records, As well any and all state records on him, This person is a “Ghost, ~ he does not exist” .
    So just who is it that we have been being BS by?

    I have felt that this whole event is nothing more nor less that a Psyop from the very first moment as not one single thing hangs together.

    Also you all may recall the young girl who was alledged to have been shot at the alledged Gabby Gifford shoting, My question on this is:
    {what was her mother doing at this event standing with the alledged Mrs. Obama? }

    People start digging ~~ this is your life and your familys future we are talking about, this is not a game, we are heading to a 100% Total NAZI POLICE state.

    You all need to get your feet wet and start working this puzzle this is not just for me this will effect all of US, If we can find what we did ~ you all sure can find Intel too,
    Look the names up of ALL the alledged victims and start digging into them family picture’s etc. look up their address’s and every thread of INTEL you can find,
    The mass media is total controlled and contrived, believe nothing they show or tell you.

    Peace and Love Merry Christmas, Shalom

  • Nicolet Nelson

    9/11 they destroy America,and attacked Pentagon with Box cutter,why they didn’t ban box cutter since then??They selling the guns to Mexico and Libya to kill Americans and after all we don’t know the truth what happen all those shooting incidents Batman and CT.Why they don’t say what connection has between those shooting?How coincident in both shooters fathers are involved in LIBOR scandal?Plus baby-sitter who killed 2 children also their father are involved in LIBOR scandal.They supposed to testify in senate.Go and figure!Too fishy and one I know they destroy America and nation!People are brained wash and sleeping!

  • winstonsmith6079

    The COUNTRY of Mexico has ONE “Gun store” and absolute laws against citizens being armed and look how “SAFE” the average Mexican is! The country is OWNED by the drug cartels who WILL COMMIT MURDER at the drop of a sombrero and NOT give two hoots in Tijuana over the “collateral damage”!
    In America the slums of the “NO GUN” cities like Chicago, NY and LA things are just about as bad – scores of innocent citizens are murdered DAILY by street gangs with illegally obtained guns that they STILL get despite the draconian “Laws”!

  • Braxxos

    If not fr the children, then who should it be for, the future mass murderers who use assault weapons? The idiots who keep assault rifles for show? The gun owners who would want guns, but would never did serve in the military?

    • http://gravatar.com/bychoosing WTS/JAY

      Fast and Furious allowed weapons from the U.S. to pass into the hands of suspected gun smugglers so the arms could be traced to the higher echelons of Mexican drug cartels. The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives, which ran the operation, has lost track of hundreds of firearms, many of which have been linked to crimes, including the fatal shooting of Border Patrol Agent Brian Terry in December 2010.

      The first of 20 individuals indicted in 2011 on charges of buying high-powered firearms in Arizona to be used by Mexican drug gangs was sentenced Monday in San Diego federal court to 57 months in prison. Danny Cruz Morones, 24, of Phoenix is the first of the so-called Fast and Furious defendants to be sentenced. He pleaded guilty to acting as a “straw purchaser”of weapons, including AK-47 assault rifles, and to recruiting others to buy the weapons.

      High-powered assault weapons illegally purchased under the ATF’s Fast and Furious program in Phoenix ended up in a home belonging to the purported top Sinaloa cartel enforcer in Ciudad Juarez, Mexico, whose organization was terrorizing that city with the worst violence in the Mexican drug wars.

      In all, 100 assault weapons acquired under Fast and Furious were transported 350 miles from Phoenix to El Paso, making that West Texas city a central hub for gun traffickers. Forty of the weapons made it across the border and into the arsenal of Jose Antonio Torres Marrufo, a feared cartel leader in Ciudad Juarez, according to federal court records and trace documents from the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives.

      The smugglers’ tactics — quickly moving the weapons far from ATF agents in southern Arizona, where it had been assumed they would circulate — vividly demonstrate that what had been viewed as a local problem was much larger. Six other Fast and Furious guns destined for El Paso were recovered in Columbus, N.M.

      How will we ever succeed in keeping assault-rifles out of the hands of criminals, Braxxos, when the very same people who demand they be banned, are the very same that make them readily available to the criminal element? Do you honestly think that our crooked and two-faced politicians have our children’s best interest in mind, Braxxos? And just to make matters worse, in their desperate attempt to absolve themselves, the “political-ghouls” are engaging on an all out assault on the “rights” of law-abiding and innocent American gun-owners to own and carry! The problem, Braxxos, is not guns, necessarily, the problem is that this country is ruled by criminal-politicians who are clearly INSANE!!!

    • JC

      Well Braxxos, all you’ve done is what every liberal in here is doing…
      Which is expressing an emotional desire that “something be done”:
      Not one of you has come up with rational solution that might actually work.
      You just want something “to be done about it” so you can “feel” safer.
      You won’t be any safer with more paper and ink than you are now.
      In fact all you’re doing is lumping law abiding people in with the criminals.
      And nothing other than that will have changed.

      None of you are actually “rational”.

  • THE ONE & ONLY ORIGINAL KENYAN KRUSHER

    Dear Bob,

    I totally agree with your column here & I know Obama’s drone strikes (over 625 so far) have killed many, but from all the evidence so far, I don’t believe the number of children killed is in the thousands. If you have proof, please let me know.

    KK

  • http://www.facebook.com/dan.mancuso.56 Dan Mancuso

    Dear Bob;
    As usual, your basic, down to earth, common sense facts, logic and reason, are lost on the liberal/progressive/socialist types. The worst thing about these ‘people’ is not that they never question their beliefs, the worst thing is that they see no reason to ever question their beliefs! The programming is locked in. You cannot even try to disscuss it or debate with them. When you try to – on any subject – you get a “PEEPER”. That’s an acronym, PPPR, which stands for Pre Programmed Pavlovian Response. This is how it works, when you say a certain word or phrase, that is contrary to their liberal/progressive/socialist programming and/or dogma of their liberal religion, two things happen in their ‘brains’ simultaniously. 1st, their ‘brains’ shut down – SLAM – like a steel trap, they aren’t hearing any thing you say after that – it is not penetrating their consciousness. 2nd, at the same time they affix a label to you, a demonizing label like; homophobe, racist, anti-Semite, sexist or mysoginist, bigot, or in this case, gun nut, that has the effect of marginalizing you. This process allows them to go blithely on in ignorance, believing their specious nonsense and live in their contrived ‘don’t worry, be happy’, ‘if it feels right it must be right,’ little liberal world. There are those of us out here who value your wisdom and informed intelligence, so keep up the good work and maybe someday we can live in a world where the people running things do care about the children and show it.

  • ronald

    Listen….Guns dont kill. people with the guns kill…..now you want to take my right to protect
    myself from these idiots…..THE GOVERMENT DONT NEED TO TELL US HOW TO PROTECT OURSELVES…
    YOU WANT TO KNOW HOW TO SOLVE THE NATIONAL DEBT? TAKE HALF THE PAY FROM THOSE IN WASHINGTON AND USE IT TO PAY DOWN THE DEBT THAT THEY MADE..

  • Brian Smith

    THE MARK OF THE BEAST (666) IS THE ANSWER WHEN OUR NEW MESSIAH THE ANTI-CHRIST THE WORLD DICTATOR JAVIER SOLANA OF SPAIN COMES TO POWER HOPEFULLY EARLY 2013 !

    PLEASE SEE http://www.jvim.com for more details ?

  • Z Legras

    If all those children and their teachers had been correctly armed, they could have fired back and most would be still alive today.
    We should not let our kids enter schools without arms, that is the hard truth those damn liberals will never admit.

  • Jimbo

    Apparently, 37 mass shootings have happened in the US since 1974. Very few before that. What changed? Guns? Nope. Semi-auto rifles and pistols have existed for the better part of the century. All that’s different about today’s “assault weapons” is that they’re made with plastic, and steel, instead of wood and steel. They function the same. So what started happening in ’73 that changed our culture? Our MORALITY changed.

    The liberals gave us abortion on demand (Roe V. Wade) They started pushing God out of schools, homes and public places. They started glorifying pre-marital sex, adolescent sex, diivorce, pornography, and the gay lifestyle without consideration of the effects on our children. They promoted the idea that there is no sin, only bad breaks. The only thing that is important is the individual, and what he or she is “feeling”. They opposed all forms of censorship in television, radio, the internet, and video games. Mental patients were released from hospitals, again because it “feels right”. Every crisis was addressed with a dishonest emotional response, rather than honest, logical discussion.

    Yes Mr. Obama there is problem in this country, but it’s not the gun culture. It’s the message YOU and other liberals send our children. Namely, that life is disposable, and we don’t need to fear hell. Mr. Obama, you have promoted abortion world wide. Even to the extent of voting against protecting children who survive abortions. You are FORCING people to pay for abortions. And persecuting people who speak out about the VALUE of life (pro-lifers). Why would anyone with a slim grasp on reality feel anything for the life of school kids, when we have killed 58 MILLION INNOCENT UNBORN BABIES?

    Stop blaming law abiding American gun owners and inanimate objects (firearms) for the deaths of 20 children and 6 adults. Start putting the blame on the real cause, the amorality and culture of death promoted by liberals.

    One more thing. Let’s demand that CNN and other networks fire liars like Piers Morgan and send them packing back to England.. He hates America because we threw off an oppressive British government. He’d like nothing more than to see us lose our representative government, and go back to back to a monarchy. I’ve been watching his broadcast and it’s been one lie after another. In the last hour he’s claimed AR-15′s are full automatic machine guns at least 6 times. He keeps showing videos of an AR-15 that has been modified to fire full automatic (illegal unless you have federal authorization), and then says ALL AR-15′s are machine guns. He’s said that there are no legitimate uses for AR-15′s, when, in fact, they are some of the MOST popular hunting rifles owned. He says they are large caliber weapons, when in fact, they are small caliber weapons. American ranchers on our southern border defend their homes against much more heavily armed drug dealers with AR-15′s. And he consistently denies the truth, that the 2nd Amendment isn’t about giving Americans antiquated weapons. It is about having a credible DETERRENT to criminals and government tyranny.

  • Don the britton

    Fast and furious taught us that the Feds trust the Mexican drug lords more than law abiding American citizens. Why do the Feds fear law abiding citizens more than criminals?

  • Paul Wells

    At the very least, put at least one armed marshal at schools. We owe our kids that. No one wants to talk about the real problem, which is a permissive society that has lost all moral compass. Doesn’t help that we let bat-guano crazy people walk around with access to weapons (apparently). The guns are not firing themselves though, and that is hard for the liberal pea-brain to comprehend. 99.99% of gun owners don’t do something stupid, but in the lib’s world, we’ll all pay for the .01%, I guess…

  • John

    Hey Flashy, So you want to get rid of the guns. Don’t put police or armed security guards in every school. Which would stop the problem before it starts. Well when the guy kills kids with a claw hammer do we get rid of all the hammers?? then there are the knives. You know well have to get rid of all the knives. So what is next. The gun was only a TOOL!!!! You people can’t seem to understand this. The human killed the kids. It is some one with mental problems but lets not address that problem. Oh by the way Ct. has NO!!!! programs for young people and adults that are mental. You people always want to fix the problem by addressing the tool used. Take away peoples rights. Make law abiding citizens suffer for your ajenda, Never do you want to address the true reason for such hanis crimes

  • http://none nick beck

    eddie and his ilk spend hours typing on many of these sites–i can only conclude that he is unemployed and its no wonder why

  • Elda

    When ever decisions are made by feelings alone the possibility of disaster looms large. The left is known for basing their agenda on feelings. They daily try to chance truth and reality to fit those feelings and that is why it is so hard for the rest of us to make any sense of their actions. They lie to themselves and become enraged at the people like the tea party that come to them with facts. It is all about feelings and agendas. Now about feelings. The shooting of those children and teachers was about feelings. I believe they are both the same disorder only Adams was so severe it drove him to kill those he saw as a threat to him. But truly, how is it any different than what the left does to the country on a daily basis? I will not justify his actions, they were horrible. But truth be known I feel the same way about babies killed because the mother does not want it. ALL MURDER IS WRONG! Doctors that kill babies have functioning minds and are protected, Obama told men and women ready to save those 4 Americans in Benghazi to stand down, and Adam lived in a twisted world where he had to be protected from himself and is considered a monster. I see no difference. All these people use feelings with no basis in truth to make decisions that end up in murder.

  • Thomas Bunetta
  • Donald

    Communism in it’s ideal form, would never be excepted in America, disguise it and call it Liberalism, and the SHEEP will follow. The ONLY Gun Laws that I adhere to, is the 2nd admendment of the Constitution. If you don’t agree, then feel free to go to your Gun Controll Country of choice. Remember the reason the 2nd Admendment was put into the Constitution, that folks was so we could protect ourselves from our Government. Because our Government ONLY writes laws to controll us, not to protect us. What happened in Newtown was a TRAGEDY and the officials that wouldn’t allow Ms. Lanza to commit her son and the Doctors who put him on those drugs are the one’s who should be held responsible, NOT the TOOL of choice for Adam’s murderous deed. If he used a car, would we be calling for cars to be outlawed, NO, we would be talking about the WHY it happened. This is the reason we have the Constitution and the 2nd Admendment, to protect the 1st Admendment, which I’m using to tell folks on this blog, that the real issue isn’t being discussed. : How to PROTECT ourselves from people that our Government creates, with Doctors and useless drugs to controll us: The reason that Obama and other Liberals want Gun Controll is for more CONTROLL over We The People. I feel safer at an NRA meeting than I do crossing a busy street. Remember that if you believe in God, when it’s your turn (it’s your turn). We as a Country need to look at the WHY and not the how, because if we don’t there will be more Adam Lanza’s and the Government will continue to blame the how, for more controll over us. Then we won’t have the how to protect us from the Government and the why! P.S. Liberals can come and try to take my 2nd Admendment rights’ but with my 1st Admendment right, I’m letting you know that it will be OVER YOUR DEAD BODY, God willing. PEACE

  • Myra Blackwelder

    The Fuel Project on You Tube is the best video presentation to a 21st century world that illustrates world history and the struggle (yo yo) between liberty and tyranny, and where we are today.

    The work is two multi part video series on YouTube called:
    Know Your Enemy
    Stay Free

    For a preview of the incredible work start at this link:
    Stay Free (Part 42 – Restrain From Within or Be Restrained From Without)
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=biXm9NqSAw8

  • Bob666

    They would oppose corporate average fuel economy (CAFE) standards that have made automobiles lighter — and, therefore, deadlier — and mandated air bags that have caused the deaths of thousands of children and adults in car crashes.

    talk about scraping the bottom of “fear” and “emotion” to drive an agenda.

  • http://www.facebook.com/david.l.dempsey David L Dempsey

    Do the Gun Control Fanatics really think that More Gun Control Laws will have any effect at all on Criminals or the Crazy People who want to commit Mass Murder or the Terrorists Cells already in this Country – you know – the people who Never obtain their Guns by Legal means and who have no intention of obeying Any Laws ?
    If you Gun Control People want to face 1 or more of these Murders without Any Means to Protect yourselves or others, that is Your Choice, but you Do Not have the Right to Impose your Stupid Choices on the rest of the American People.

    But it looks like Obama and the Democrats will try to use these Mass Shootings and other Incidents and Crisis to impose Nazi and Communist style Gun Control and Censorship on the American People.

  • major

    To Flashy:
    Since you seem determined to place rights vs rights on a confrontational basis I have to ask you this: When did your right to walk around (unarmed) become superior to my right to walk around armed?
    The right to be armed is in the constitution. The right to walk around un armed is NOT in the constitution. The Constitution IS the Supreme Law of the Land.
    And one more question: for someone who calls himself flashy and so concerned about “Walking Around in safety” Makes me wonder just what you mean by “FLASHY”?

  • http://twitter.com/michaelmcdani19 michael mcdaniel sr (@michaelmcdani19)

    this isn’t about or for guns, children, politics, or anything else one would expect. it is about POWER & CONTROL by socialist big brother GOVERNMENT over us, the little people; whom said gov’t seems to think we need protecting. the ONLY thing we need protecting from is the FKN gov’t. we can protect ourselves if the gov’t would just butt out.

  • http://twitter.com/michaelmcdani19 michael mcdaniel sr (@michaelmcdani19)

    son, age 21=seven suicide attempts while on zoloft, ritalin, prozac, paxil. was removed from all drugs about age 14-15. now just has obsession with trying to kill stray cats and dogs and other critters in neighborhood that law enforcement REFUSES to deal with.

  • AL CRACKER

    Why do you people waste one second on the Idiot Flashy?

    • Nick Czudy

      Cracked Cracker. I will play your level of game. I am wondering why people on this site, pay any attention to a cracked idiot like you.

      • Frank Kahn

        Be a little more sensitive, Nick, after all we put up with your inane babbling and distorted ideas on reality.

  • Marty S.

    Maybe the shooter was a patsy. C’mon look at the increase of nut jobs in recent years who have done these heinous deeds. Little or no connection to society, computer files wiped out, mom dead; what more of a perfect poster child for gun control and confiscation could a Leftist controlled government media complex want to further their cause of complete domination and control. We will never know the real truth of what happened. Besides Obama and his minions NEVER let a crisis go to waste right?

    • http://yahoo gator

      Mary, I’ve been saying for some time that these people are being slipped ‘brain gravy’. Some ‘special op’ group is searching for the right combinations of quirks in a persons personality, and that same person has access to firearms so he/she becomes a target.
      As an example, the guy in the Aurora theater didn’t have a clue what he had done. Of course i just lately learned that ALOT of these people had previously been treated for ‘psychiatric’ problems with drugs that have serious afteraffects.

      I beleive ‘fast and furious’ was an operation setup by the wh to further their gun control agenda. Now we have these people who may or may not be evil, commiting evil deeds. The government has unlimited resources for prying into our private lives, whether it be medical records, bank records, spending habits, and yes firearm possesion records; you name it they have access to it. They have continually over the years found more ways to invade our privacy, look at the ‘patriot act’, THE most ANTI-CONSTITUTIONAL piece of privacy invasive legislation EVER in US history. Though i may seem a little paranoid, i think i have pretty good reason to be so.

  • Bert Cundle Sr.

    Overpaid Lawmakers, trying to justify their job!

    • Bert Cundle Sr.

      NO MORE LOBBY LAWS!!! Abolish the ones we have Now…

  • Braxos

    Let NRA members patrol the schools. They like to brag about themselves having guns. Using them against others who shoot back is another thing.

    • http://midcontent brand inspector

      They probably will and do a great job, why don’t the socialist democraps volunteer for something productive, but the socialist dems, never give a damn thing to society, only see what they can steal or take from the productive people. Charaties prove that fact out on the donatyons, socialist average less than 1% of income, while conservatives give slightly more than 15% of their income to charities, no matter what income level. Of course Plugs Biden gives less than 1/10 of 1%, yet he is another puke like the maddrass educated congentential liar in the WH who makes over a milllion a year, according to his tax return, prove what cheap bastards they are as party.

    • http://yahoo gator

      i am not a member of the NRA, for i’m sure the gov has list of all members as well as a file on each. however i would gladly donate a day a week to help protect school kids; that wouldn’t be a problem.
      had the government REALLY wanted to protect the kids, they’d have diverted part of the billions of dollars they give to foreign aid, to install better doors and or fences to deny access by unauthorized person’s.

    • http://yahoo gator

      It was the school systems obligation to protect those kids while in their care, and the government basically runs the school system. After previous attrocities were committed, they did NOTHING.
      No fences, no security doors, no armed teachers NOTHING! They have armed guards in the bank to protect their money, armed bodyguards to protect themselves, armed bodyguards to protect THEIR WIVES AND KIDS! I guess the people in power don’t really care about anyone elses kids or families, UNTIL THEEY ARE NEEDED TO FURTHER THEIR GUN-BAN AGENDA. Don’t be fooled by their bs, thats all it is.

  • jopa

    Here we have twenty kindergarten children turned into hamburger in a matter of seconds with an assault rifle and you say it’s not about the children.I beg to differ on that lunatic comment.The government is not out to take away guns used for practical self defense and sport hunting.It’s only being practical on limiting clip capacity and ones ability to kill hundreds of Americans in a minute or so.If you need ten rounds or more to hunt you better hang it up and go buy your meat. If the slaughters in the schools and theaters isn’t enough to make you think a little you had better go see a shrink for you have some serious mental issues.

    • http://midcontent brand inspector

      jopa. spouted like a true mental moron, the slaughter of these little children was said. The socialist media never said anything where his father was, and why his parents split up, monet difintly wasn’t an issue. Which is another load of BS liberials point to, when nut jobs wig out, and hurt others. Another BS idea is every clown needs a college degree. The socialist liberials theorist we thedumbazzes who pushed the idea of mainstreaming loony tunes and just plain instutionalized squirrels, which proved again any government plan is always is a failure at best. Another nut job killed some more people, who were serviing the public, this nut was introuble with law for years, but the theorizing book trained bastards in office, beleived killers and freaks can be sent out into society after a few basket weaving sessions. The only bright spot is that the pukes both either taste tested a gun barel or were exterminated by the law, so there is no need for the feel good leech lawyers and degreed head gameers, wasting taxpayers’ money and time.Look at how test scores for schools have dropped as mental deficient children are mainstream in classrooms and they cann’t follow the rest of the class. Again what group of morons dreamed the dimwitted idea, theSOCIALIST/Communist DUMBORAT party, you know the congential lying groupies that live off of everyone else that pay their honest tax rates.

  • OldJim

    Julius Caesar was not killed with an AK-47 or even with a GUN – It was with a KNIFE! Other leaders have been killes with poison, reptiles, garrotts, clubs, swords, molitov coctails, suffocated with pillows, etc. Imagine if one of the modern mass murderes did not have a gun – would they have used firebombs, explosives, nerve gas (As in the Japanese subway a few years ago), non of which were directional, would not the carnage been greater?..And how successful has the “War on drugs” been?……And how well has the efforts been to disarm the “Drug Cartel”?……..Not successful!….But the founding fathers of this nation knew that THE PEOPLE had to retain the means to defend themselves against tyrants/Dictatorships…..So, of course, Would-be Dictators want to disarm the people so that they can not resist!….Does anone remember WHO “Gets tired of waiting for Congress to act, so issues “Executive Orders”?

    • Jim

      If these people were really concened for human life and to use their rationale “If just one life can be saved” then why not go after those aspects of our society that CAUSE the most preventable deaths? Modern Medical practices which needlessly kill an average of 240,000 people per year due to drugs (psychotropics fit this category which ALL the school shooters were on) botched operations, infections caught in hospitals, over pre-scribed drugs, and negative side effects of drugs. OH, btw Out of control rages, and suicidal depressions are often listed side effects of psychotropic drugs given to kids often for years, until they stop working and then they go off the deep end. So lets make a deal. We will give up our guns if they give pass a law banning back yard swimming pools (after all if just one life can be saved and a child not drown)…Lets ban automobiles. Save 109 lives PER DAY…or perhaps mandate that all vehicles have to have govenors that limit max speed to 45 MPH. Ban all fast sports cars. After all no one needs to drive 140 mph. Ban phones that text. Ban Alcohol..after all that causes so many crashes…CARS and BOOZE…Ban Pot. Oh wait we tried a lot of that before and it didn’t work…so what exactly ARE those anti-gun people really about? They are either lemmings who are acting out of pure emotion trained like dogs in a Pavlov experiment, or they are rabid statists who KNOW that the key to ultimate population control i.e. Stalin, Lenin, Hitler, Mao, Pol Pot etal is to disarm the population to prevent resistance and retalliation.

      • http://yahoo gator

        yep, there are 75,000 alchohol related deaths per year in the USA.
        there are 2,000 unborn children that have their brains sucked out of their skulls EVERY DAY, and its legal, and if your reading this YOU weren’t one of them.
        there are 545 people in washington d.c. that don’t have a problem with all of the above; yet they do have a problem with law abiding citizens possessing firearms.

        the MONSTER that just killed the FIREMEN in new york, murdered his grandmother with a hammer and the judicial system SET HIM FREE, when he should have been executed. Those same people in power that LET A VICIOUS MURDERER LOOSE ON SOCIETY WANT TO TAKE YOUR FIREARMS!
        DO YOU REALLY THINK THEY CARE ABOUT YOU?

  • OldJim

    And oh, by the way – Does anyone remember the murder of the student nurses by the crazy guy with a knife? – What if JUST ONE of those students had a pistol?

  • Coalminer

    Dear Bob livingston.

    Gun control is not the answer.What about the mass murderer Timothy McVeigh? He didn’t use a gun.Gun control is plain old horse [expletive deleted] .If some one is bent on killing some one. They will find other means,Mceigh did.

  • Bert Cundle Sr.

    It is Much easer to take CONTROL… From the inside! Worry about LAW MAKERS!!!

  • alboy5

    Obama is an anti-American, who is not American.

  • http://www.facebook.com/eugene.solare Eugene Solare

    I have just spent as much time reading these coments as I can . They bounce all over the spectrum as far as opinions,emotional and factual.Yes,I would not trust the motivations of any elected official nor their intentons.I think most everybody is missing the point.Banning the hand gun and the hunting rifles[semi automatic] the clips[magazines] etc what ever the offical thinks will push your button’s to get a favoritable reaction to his idea,will accomplish one thing for sure,you the law bideing citizen will no longer have the ability to protect your home,your family,your valuables and the lives of those you love. Criminals do not obey the law you will not have the ability to protect yourselves.This is NOT your grandfathers America any more. When seconds count,the Police are only minutes away.

  • Robert

    just to sum up what this president wants to do
    first put registration on all guns
    2 this will lead to them being confiscated
    3 this is like hitler did and you see where that went
    4 then he can be the dictator and rule this country, no more elections and no voice in govt.
    5 during the second world war japan would not attack the Unitrd States because the people were armed and they new they could not win on American soil.
    6 there are a few solutions, if you use a weapon in a crime auto death penailty, this by hanging in town square, this will stop a lot of crimes, add drugs to this, when they get slap on wrist for drugs it seems worth it to most of them. stop drugs for attention disorders, bring back mental hpspitals.

    • Nick Czudy

      Hey Robert, It truly amazes me how many people on this blog seem to be able to read Obama’s mind. You guys are truly amazing.

      1) registration on all guns. OK fine it it will prevent terrorists, criminals and crazy people from buying guns.

      2) This will not lead them to be confiscated. It will lead to assault weapons and high capacity magazines to be banned or handed in. I am sick of hearing that it is always the usual cry of the gun lobby, that “All guns will be confiscated” that is not what they have been saying and it is only in the minds of a few paranoid gun owners that this excuse is always given.

      3) Hitler did not have our constitution and elected government with all of the checks and balances to oust bad leaders. For the hand full of paranoid gun owners that think that they need to amass guns for the rise of the next Hitler, are you going to prevent rational gun laws, that might save thousands of lives killed by the easily available guns?

      4) There is no way that a rational and moral president like Obama and the Democratic party, would become dictators and throw out the constitution. On the other hand the GOP with their obstruction of voting, redistributing, obstruction in Congress and forcing their rape laws on women. I do not trust them. they are underhanded and slimy.

      5) I have never heard of Japan not attacking the USA because of armed citizens. I know that they were truly afraid of the USA’s armed forces. They never had any intention of attacking the mainland USA. They just wanted to damage USA’s Pacific fleet, so that they could take over many of the Pacific islands without interference of the US Navy. But I would be interested for you to back up this statement with a source. Please tell me where you got this little bit of info. thanks.

      6) One of the problems in why mental issues are not handled well in the USA is the current system of private healthcare where the Insurance companies and HMO’s are scared to offer coverage for mental health problems. It is not profitable for them and risky. If you had a universal health system, then more mentally challenged people would get health care.
      Hanging gun criminals in the public square might deter some half backed criminals. I do not think that it will deter the hardened criminals that have a huge money potential. that might work for some. But there can be a huge debate on Capital punishment.

      If the mass human killing arms are banned, all Americans will still be able to have thousands of guns, still available to protect your family. It is not necessary for you to have semi-automatic guns with large magazines. A semi-auto handgun with a few 10 bullet clips, should be enough for any break in situation.
      Unless the mob are after you because you screwed them, then, maybe you will need more firepower. But as for the average American, there will still be plenty of arms that will protect you and your family. Hunting does not require these type og guns. Where is the sport in that?

      • gator

        hey scudzy, 1) Terrorists do not buy guns, they are supplied to them by illegal means or they steal and/or kill for them. They do the same when it comes to boxcutters, and passenger jets; and as far as I know suicide bombers don’t register their vests. You may include crazy people in this group.
        2)When california banned socalled ‘assault weapons’, they turned 300,000 law abiding citizens into felons because they did not turn in their firearms.

        3) You are right, there was no CONSTITUTION in germany. hitler and his bunch confiscated guns from the civilian population leaving them helpless to defend themselves, and thereby allowing the nazi’s to cast MILLIONS of them into the ovens.
        The 2ND AMENDMENT is a statement of birthright, and it confirms the right of the people to protect the USA from tyranny.
        That is the meaning of it.

        BEING NECESSARY TO A FREE STATE, THE RIGHT OF THE PEOPLE TO KEEP AND BARE ARMS SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED!

        Do you understand english? It cannot be stated any clearer.

        I will add that thousands of AMERICANS defend family and home each day with a firearm, without which they would be at the mercy of VIOLENT CRIMINALS WHO ARE RELEASED UPON THE STREETS OF THE COUNTRY EACH DAY.
        Case in point: The monster in new york, that used gasoline to burn down at least 6 homes and KILL TWO AND WOUND TWO BRAVE FIREMEN who responded to the fire, that MONSTER HAD MURDERED HIS GRANDMOTHER WITH A HAMMER, AND WAS RELEASED FROM PRISON TO COMMIT MORE MURDER!
        That was no fault of the firearm that he aquired illegally, THAT WAS THE FAULT OF THE GOVERNMENT! Those who set this monster free should be tried for murder and sentenced to prison with NO CHANCE FOR PAROLE.
        new york as well as connecticut have extremely strict gun laws in place, they don’t work well when brutal killers are let loose on the public.

        4) Moral and/or rational do not belong in the same sentence with obama or the democrat/republican parties, who have no problem with MURDERING 2,000 INNOCENT UNBORN CHILDREN A DAY WITH ABORTION, BY SUCKING THE BRAINS OUT OF THE UNBORN SKULLS. If YOU beleive aboortion is ok, you are also immoral and irrational and have no problem with murdering children.
        Do you mean redistributing the wealth?; thats obamas plan, it equates with socialism and loss of freedom.
        Force rape laws on women? What do you mean? If a woman gets raped she is stoned for being an adultress? Thats what the muslims do, obama knows this well, as he sides with the muslims and has publicly stated that fact.
        Obstruction in congress? obama doesn’t obstruct congress, he simply evades and goes around them, as any other DICTATOR would do.

        5) The reason for Japan attacking PEARL HARBOR was to have a stepping stone to invade the USA. If you’ve ever looked at a world map it is a really long, long way across the Pacific Ocean!
        The major Japanese powers, the emperor being the most powerful, wanted to continue on, and actually a Japanese force landed in the Aluetian Islands (thats ALASKA).
        General Yamamoto, warned his superiors that “To invade AMERICA would be foolish, as there would be a rifle behind every blade of grass!”
        He was correct! The UNITED STATES of AMERICA has the largest standing army in the world. That army is not its military. That army is the ARMED CITIZENS of the UNITED STATES of AMERICA. That very army is what protects AMERICA from tyranny and invasion.

        6) The 2ND AMENDMENT has NOTHING TO DO WITH HUNTING! Its not about sport! Take a history class, grow a brain! There are many times that average citizens have used firearms to defend against angry mobs of looters and gangs of would-be or possible murderers. The police departments offer no immediate (if any) protection in times of riot and social unrest, which often happens in this country.
        Many times the lunatics that commit heinous crimes against innocent unarmed citizens are allready being given medication for mental disorders. What you obviously are unaware of (among other things) is that the side affects of most of these drugs include suicidal and violent tendencies, but the people that ‘liberally’ dispense prescriptions for these drugs are NEVER HELD LIABLE.
        The monster that killed those children in Newtown, was being treated with such drugs.
        However you won’t hear that from the media. You will also not hear that, “an AR-15 and a shotgun was found IN THE TRUNK OF THE CAR!” The killer never entered the school with a rifle! The principal buzzed him in! Do you think she would have done so, had he been carrying a rifle?!
        The media constantly changes the facts and obscures the truth to further its left-wing liberal gun-grabbing agenda, much to the satisfaction of those who would make you a slave, if you aren’t bound in servitude already; and if you are you are obviously too stupid to know it. The propaganda machine is obviously working quite well.
        7) No, you didn’t make seven points.
        You did however excercise your 1ST AMENDMENT right of free speech. This will be denied to you once if ever the 2ND AMENDMENT is abolished, for the 2ND AMENDMENT protects the others. If you don’t beleive it, study a little world and AMERICAN history.

        The ovens in AUSCHWITZ are now cold, but they are still there. You have been warned.

        • Bert Cundle Sr.

          Wisdom is becoming useless now a days… { X – E – Qute… All Thieves & Thugs! } Till Civilians & Citizens are safe!!!

      • Smitty

        Well put,Gator!!

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