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Boxing History

January 20, 2011 by  

Boxing History

Ask a randomly-selected group to name an American civil rights organization, and it’s a fair bet that seven out of 10 will respond: “The NAACP.” The other three are likely busily thumbing through their copies of “Moody Loners’ Monthly.”

The National Association for the Advancement of Colored People has a rich history marked by enormous strides forward in the effort to give each taxpaying citizen of this great nation equal access to the embittered cynicism endemic to being a taxpaying citizen of this great nation.

Where once blacks were unable to vote, the NAACP helped secure their opportunity to choose from the same nest of back-slapping jacklegs that have the rest of us scratching our heads. Where once blacks were consigned to lives in decaying urban cesspools like Detroit and Washington, D.C., the NAACP has been steadfast in championing meaningful renewa… er… well… they’re against that poverty stuff.

Thusly, during the national holiday celebrating the life and legacy of Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr., the NAACP should presumably take center stage in reminding us of King’s message of unity, love and peace.

Conversely, they could take advantage of their starring role in the soap opera of American race relations to press forward with a message of hatred, divisiveness and conflict.

Monday, the NAACP chose curtain No. 2 — again. At a rally at the South Carolina State Capitol, the NAACP celebrated King’s legacy by angrily protesting the display of a “Confederate” flag on the Capitol grounds as a part of a Civil War memorial. I don’t have a dog in the flag fight; I’m an interloping Yankee. While I understand the historical aspects of the Confederate flag, it has always seemed deliberately anachronistic to me, like waving a Union Jack on the 4th of July. Nonetheless, South Carolinians have repeatedly said they want to keep it around.

On King’s day, why bother singing the same tune you’ve been howling at Palmetto Staters for years? Institutional racism is dead in South Carolina, just ask James Clyburn; currently the third-ranking Democrat in the House of Representatives. For that matter, take a look at the S.C. 2008 Democrat primary, when Barack Obama did everything but park his campaign bus on putty-faced Hillary Clinton’s Presidential ambitions.

A friend recently invoked the words of a noteworthy American:

We ought not to look back, unless it is to derive useful lessons from past errors, and for the purpose of profiting by dear bought experience.”

It’s an uncommonly erudite caution against lingering on past offenses and failures without learning from them. The speaker was an uncommonly erudite man: George Washington — our American Cincinattus, and symbol of offense to the NAACP.

You read that right. While 1,200 members of the nation’s most august civil rights organization crowded the steps of the South Carolina State Capitol on Monday, a statue of ol’ George was shrouded by a wooden enclosure, reportedly because the NAACP didn’t want to “offend anyone.”

It’s hard to imagine anyone other than some over bred descendant of King George III being offended by a bronze likeness of one of the most important architects of human freedom in history, but it’s an educated guess that race was a factor. Even if the purpose of the shroud was to make NAACP president Ben Jealous look less doughy and more telegenic, I have a hard time imagining the NAACP covering up a bronze relief of George Washington Carver.

But there it was. The same group which claims the mantle of harmonious progress handed down by King, rallying against a symbol of a movement which no longer exists, deliberately obscuring the image of a man who would be horrified by the whole dog and pony show.

Time was, the NAACP stood for the ideals for which both Washington and King lived — and in King’s case — died. Now, they whine about the Governor of Maine’s travel schedule. They bellow on behalf of cop killers. And they’re so consumed with their own place in the present that they have lost any meaningful sense of either the past or the future.

King warned: “Let us not seek to satisfy our thirst for freedom by drinking from the cup of bitterness and hatred.” Behind the NAACP’s enclosure, George Washington nods in assent.

Ben Crystal

is a 1993 graduate of Davidson College and has burned the better part of the last two decades getting over the damage done by modern-day higher education. He now lives in Savannah, Ga., where he has hosted an award-winning radio talk show and been featured as a political analyst for television. Currently a principal at Saltymoss Productions—a media company specializing in concept television and campaign production, speechwriting and media strategy—Ben has written numerous articles on the subjects of municipal authoritarianism, the economic fallacy of sin taxes and analyses of congressional abuses of power.

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  • Jeremy Leochner

    On this matter I find myself conflicted. As a proud student of the Civil War I have always tried to dissociate the emblem of the Confederacy from outright racism and intolerance since as a student I know many confederates did not own slaves and many of its leading figures including Robert E. Lee outright opposed the institution and even called for freeing the slaves to save the confederacy. Yet as a student of Civil War history I also know of the tradition of extremist groups such as the KKK using the emblem of the confederacy as a symbol of their fight in an attempt to make themselves feel more noble or valiant. As such it wouldnt seem that far fetched to say the people who tried to stop Reverend King were probably waving Confederate flag’s so I can see why the NAACP would be upset. However with all that said, since from what Mr Crystals article says the flag is in a memorial- I do not know the specifics of the memorial, I would hope its a memorial to all those who died in the war not just in the south, however regardless of my feelings if the purpose of the flag is to remember a sad but undeniable part of our nations history I feel its necessary and required to wave such a banner on such a memorial. I mean no disrespect to the NAACP but in this case I feel the obligation to remember must be honored in order for everyone to move on into a better future.

    • JeffH

      Jeremy Leochner, well said. When I think about the Confederate flag, I see it as a symbol of “southern pride” which, after their Civil War defeat, was about all they had left to be proud of.

      Ben, thanks for a thoughtful and wonderful commentary. Seems the NAACP may have outlived their usefulness.

      • Jeremy Leochner

        Thanks Jeff.
        But hey I still think the NAACP is important.

        • TIME

          As I am black I can say with out question that the NAACP is little more than a wedge that has enslaved more Blacks and kept them in the shadows as well in deep dispair over the last 30 years than its helped.

          Do you really think the NAACP serve’s any useful service to blacks when blacks for the most part as in 78% live on “Government aid?”
          That Blacks fill our prisons due to being raised on “Government aid” with as you noted the Souths only pride was a flag, well the blacks have “ZERO PRIDE” in anything , why would they they are tought to do nothing and get paid for it.
          Why is that, 75% of all black males will never even finish high school, so hows that Pride thing working out there?

          72% of all black females will have a baby by age 15, again locked into the system, so again I ask hows that Pride thing working out?

          Nearly 7 out of 10 blacks don’t trust banks, they don’t trust Whites, they don’t trust dogs.
          Hell 8 out of 10 blacks can’t even speak the english langauge!
          So what Ebonic’s is the answer? I think not.

          That only serves to enslave them to even deeper levels, it has done a 180* on what Dr. King worked and gave his life for.

          As a matter of fact with jerks like Al Sharpton who’s done far more damage to any type of relations to mend fences he has created a divide that is so vast it’s like the distance of the Sun from Pluto.
          Again hows that working out?

          Its very clear to any of us with any common sense be they Black, White, or even Orange that when you place undue burdends on one group to favor the other, there can never be any PRIDE, in ones self.

          I made it and did it on my own and if anyone what ever color they are really works on inproving ones self it can be done.
          But not if your held back by your alledged Leaders, and fragmented and demented laws, that only serve to keep apart human’s from understanding other humans by keeping them in an artificial bubble!

          The NAACP has done far more damage than good, it now nothing more than a “Raciest Gang of THUGS.”

          But I am so happy you think its doing such good for Blacks, that only serves to prove thats its overt Rhetoric has worked well on you.
          Thanks for the VOTE to keep us black like the good little SLAVES you want us to be.

          • Kim

            Whew! TIME…that was AWESOME. You speak PURE TRUTH, sir, and I laud you for saying so!

          • Carl

            You have spoken TRUTH and I am very grateful that you have spoken out. Keep on delivering the Truth and sooner or later and very hopefully sooner rather then later the message will spread as wildfire and reverse the Plantation attitude ingrained in the heads of blacks from early on. All laws to supposedly level the playing field are really laws saying: OH, It is OK we know you are nothing and can do nothing to help your situation. You little inferior person we will have to provide bare necessities for you. Then they overwhelmingly vote to continue their enslavement………..

          • JKO

            Well said Time. I am a person of 3 races, White, Native American, and Black – but I appear white. It is good to hear your perspective.
            I would just like to defend what Jeremy said. As a “white” woman I know that to speak against the NAACP can create all sorts of havoc in my personal life. I have done it and had people (in college) come against me for it. Of course, when I explain that I have Black ancestry it tends to shut them down. Whites have to be very careful not to be anti-NAACP or we get jumped on. Not by others of color but Whites. My GUESS is that Jeremy may have experienced this.
            I really appreciate your perspective and hope you keep saying these things and I totally agree with you.

          • http://! Angel Wannabe

            Very well said Time!

          • Wanda Murline

            Sir: I could not agree with you more. Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton have made their living, and they are quite wealthy, off the rantings and ravings of racism througout the African American populace. There was a time that the NAACP like the Unions were doing a job “for” their people, but that has clearly changed. When Glenn Beck had his meeting in Washington to heal the country with prayer…Al Sharpton was having a meeting on the other side and was stomping mad at us … saying we were stealing their Martin Luther King day or something of that nature. Today, I see the NAACP as the sister of the KKK, the only difference is that they are not actually killing people, but they are killing people’s spirit and filling them with hatred…they are the starring role in racism. Their time has come and gone, and they should be replaced with NAAAPROC…National Association of Advancement of All People Regardless of Color. The racism has to stop, and leaders such as Jackson and Sharpton are dinosaurs and need replacements with a view that everyone deserves to be equal.

          • TIME


            I understand where your at as many here know but I will give a short recap.
            My Great Great Grandmother was North African who was sold as slave in Africa, then sold in Savannah Georgia,
            She was bought by a French American Southern Plantation owner who was milk white with blue eyes, who raped her as she was nothing more than chattel. She had three children by him two who were killed in the CW period.
            The One that surived was my Great Grandmother who was very pale in skin color – she married an former Southern Irishman Plantation owner from Georgia, they had my Grand Father who again was quite pale in color with Green Eyes even.
            He in turn married a Cuban Woman who was more European Spanish looking she was milk white in color with blue eye’s and jet black hair and she was nearly six feet tall.
            They had my Mother.
            My mother was very Pale in color with Green eyes and jet black Hair and stood six feet tall or more.
            My Mother married an Native American who had Blue eyes and light brown hair, they had me.
            My mother gave me up for adoption after she left my father I was just a 1 year old. I have never seen either of them; other than a few old pictures.

            I grew up with a Super family that took me in as thier own they were American Japanese who spent from 1943 – 1945 in a camp in AZ.
            They lost thier small business and home in Upstate New York when that happened.
            It strange when you grow up with folks that look nothing like you at all, and when your 16 your taller than them by nearly a foot, so you really stand out.
            I am olive in color. I have dark brown eyes. My hair when it had color was dirty blonde.

            Be that as it may, I have seen all sides of racism. Yet I look at life as a learning curb, if you let hate rule your heart, you have nothing positive to give back.
            If you have Love in your heart your project a light that others want to be near. Never let anyone take your light away its what makes us what we are, not skin color.

          • DEA

            So encouraging to hear the words I have been thinking from someone else.
            As a white male I feel gagged to any comment because of the obvious perception that I could not possibly understand. I do understand and as an “outsider” have a clear view of the real slavery some of the Black leaders continue to cultivate. Please keep this dialogue alive with all around you as your words ring clear and true to me.

          • Dave.

            To borrow a phrase from a college campaign for blacks – “A mind is a terrible thing to waste.” Much as the baby elephant struggles in vain against the log chain and the grown elephant gives up freeing itself from that same chain; blacks need to grow up the same way we whites do; hard work, getting up and never giving up, realizing that our mistakes, falls, and challenges are from God who means to grow us up by going with us through them and not getting a “pass” to go around them.
            The simple act of walking is a continuous matter of momentarily “losing one’s standing” from one foot to the other. As any two year old can tell you; you keep going by keeping your eye on the one urging you onward and not on your feet/standing. Will you “stand out?” Sure, but eventually the majority will stand and walk with you; keep making goals, grow from strength to strength,and serve others not worrying about who gets the credit. No, you won’t always be rewarded, yes, you might get knocked down; but you’re only defeated when you quit. God be with you – don’t look back; you might have a following!

          • JKO

            Well said once again. I have a similar tale from South Carolina. Mine is a great great grandmother also on my Mom’s side and it was against her will. Don’t know much more than that. I do know that on my dad’s side my Grt. Grt. Grandfather had a slave – he married the “Indian”. He actually gave him (the slave) a significant sized parcel of land after the CW.
            Can you say conflicted boys and girls?? :)
            Yes, there really were slave owners in America and I am one of the few that will admit that my ancestors were among them.
            I agree about the light. My goal is to speak truth to the best of my ability and if I find I am wrong I will admit to it and make it right. I also give less than a rat’s you know what about a persons skin color or anything else. There are few people I find that I don’t like and get along with.
            I am living on a Reservation now and am in the minority. You know what? The Navajo’s don’t seem to care about my skin. They are just grateful that I am here to teach math to their middle schoolers.

          • JeffH

            TIME, thank you once again. You’ve stated the facts as they are, in real time, on your terms. So many of us non-blacks skirt the reality of the situation for fear of being called a bigot or a racist, even though those accusations have been parroted many times for stating far less.
            Again, it all boils down to personal responsibility, something the government hasn’t the slightest clue about.

          • crystal

            You obviously are not Black, but I am. Your numbers are way out of sorts, which makes one think you follow the liberal stereotypes.

            Why is that, 75% of all black males will never even finish high school, so HOW’s that Pride thing working out there?

            I went on ahead and added that ” ‘ ” in the word “hows” because it is a possessive. Capitalized the word “how’s” so you can follow.

            The number isn’t 75% (looks like all of your numbers are around 75%), it is closer to 37%.

            72% of all black females will have a baby by age 15, again locked into the system, so again I ask hows that Pride thing working out?

            There is a ” ‘ ” in the word “hows” because it is a possessive.
            This is beyond a falsehood. Your hatred of Black women stands out in this falsified number. You must have missed the part where 62% of Black women go on to college and graduate.

            Nearly 7 out of 10 blacks don’t trust banks, they don’t trust Whites, they don’t trust dogs.

            What does this have to do with anything? 7 out of 10 Blacks don’t trust banks? As it stands in the fall of our current economy, NOBODY should have been trusting banks.

            So they don’t trust Whites, so what!!! Do White people trust Black people?

            Whatever dogs have to do with this topic is beyond logic. It sounds as if you’re comparing White people to dogs, which is extremely insulting.

            Hell 8 out of 10 blacks can’t even speak the english langauge!
            So what Ebonic’s is the answer? I think not.

            Obviously your one of them. The word “english” should have been capitalized “English” and a comma after the word “what.”

            As a matter of fact with jerks like Al Sharpton who’s done far more damage to any type of relations to mend fences he has created a divide that is so vast it’s like the distance of the Sun from Pluto.
            Again hows that working out?

            Again, there is a ” ‘ ” in the word “hows” because it is a possessive.

            I will agree with you regarding Al Sharpton. I would like to add Jesse Jackson and Louis Farrakhan to the list.

            Before you can insult an entire race of people, make sure you’re on point. The way one writes (i.e., proper punctuation), speaks volumes and one’s numbers should be correct.

          • Aix Sponsa

            Well said. AMEN. May God Bless ALL the hard working people with integrity and pride.

          • Jeremy Leochner

            I can understand your position Time. However I must point out Black, White are all just generic terms that ultimatly don’t speak to individuality among the members of those races. Your statistic suggests if your on “Government aid” that you are more likely to be black. But does that coralate to if you are black are you more likely to be on government aid. Thats the problem with those kind of statistics. While I cant deny that certain statistics show a greater numer of a certain race or ethnic or gender group in them we cant use such information to judge or treat or analyze those groups. Becuase ultimatly those groups dont in any way determine in and of themselves whether or not someone will fall into one of those catagories you mentioned. Perhaps the NAACP can serve to puse economic, welfare, or education reform to try and help people get better educations or jobs so they need not fall into such situations. While I dont deny there is a need to help oneself out of situations I dont feel conditions of African Americans or the NAACP can be seen as enslavement or faliure. I agree we must have better relations between groups and not allow prejudice or personal feelings to affect each others arguments however as the NAACP shouldnt judge others so we shouldn’t judge the NAACP.

          • Dogma-Free Too

            Actually, Time…I don’t believe you actually are Black.

            I noticed in your post that you constantly refer to the Black people as “them”…as opposed to ‘us’.

            Perhaps this was just another racist ‘fist jab’, from yet another of the many racist white folks that love this website, with its many racist ‘contributors’ (like Ben Crystal here)…typical. And sad.

          • JeffH

            Digma, naturally you’d say that…being a racist and all! Oh, and a lyin’ liberal!

          • Walt

            TIME, I’ll break bread with you and a couple of shots. Then we will talk about the white trash in D.C. that are fanning the fire of racism.

          • http://?? Joe H.

            actually the apostrophe in how’s is not because it is possesive but because it is a contraction of how is! This is the danger of correcting peoples grammer as sometimes you think you are correct when you aren’t. aren’t, another contraction, this time of are not!

          • libertytrain

            Joe as the history books have been adjusted in schools perhaps the grammar books have been as well. Perhaps contractions are no longer called contractions. :)

          • Rebecca

            Time…..will you be running for political office? If so…you have my vote!

      • Dave.

        Perhaps we can resurrect the Civil War from this age old war by calling it the “War between the States” and remembering it as States Rights vs Federal Rights. Many of the South’s leaders were profoundly Christian, were fighting for their way of life and really needed to see that slavery, even more prevalent now than ever is anti-Christian, that slaves once Christian (see the book of Philemon) were and are more brothers in Christ than chattel. Enslavement occurs wherever one group/class is accorded “special rights” over another; both suffer to the detriment of the whole. Geo. W. Carver was a true free man, instilling in the graduates of Tuskegee the unique ability to use both their brains and their hands making them indispensable in any society. Much is learned using both head and hands; freedom is truly a matter of the heart. Some “masters” are still slaves to their passions and those they give power to; some ‘slaves’ are truly free in Christ opting on their own to “go the second mile!!”

    • bhscpa

      Jeremy – Your understanding of the flag situation and humility you show giving NAACP the benefit of the doubt is admirable. I just wish NAACP had some of those positive human traits.

      • Dave.

        MLK’s dream is realized by people of all colors distinguishing themselves by their actions, deeds, the words and vision they have and give; and not by their “race”. The Bible says (and science now confirms) that there is only one race – it’s called Homo Sapiens. race and domination of one over another came from man specifically C. Darwin and his “evilution” inspiring A. Hitler, the “monkey business” of monkeys and man, etc.
        Animals didn’t “evolve” from single cell to man; even the single cell is marvelously complex and animals are equipped by their Creator to function where they’re found; not as they are nearer or more distant from man.

    • FlaJim

      Don’t know how well you’ve been studying your history. The Confederate Constitution stipulated that all slavery be abolished within 6 years of its ratification. That would have been 1867.

      Which KKK are you referring to? The one from the 1860s or the re-formed one of the 20th century? The first was a reaction to nearly every Southern white voter eing disenfranchised and carpetbaggers from the north pulling the strings.

      Few people know that the original NAACP was formed by northern white liberals who cajoled a few token blacks to hold office. Nearly 50 years after the South was invaded and plundered, these people still wanted to rub Southerners’ noses in their subjugation. Today, it serves to discredit any ‘colored people’ who can make it on their own.

      • Jeremy Leochner

        I understand FlaJim. My point is to say undeniably so far as im concerned slavery was a if not the primary cause of secession and civil war. However many confederates as you pointed out turned against slavery and wanted to abolish it. My point is to differentiate the flag from a specific cause or belief other then the belief in a southern confederacy. As to the KKK your right I should have specified the more modern Klan as well as those at the time of the civil rights movement who opposed integration and racial equality.

      • Vigilant

        “The Confederate Constitution stipulated that all slavery be abolished within 6 years of its ratification. That would have been 1867.”

        FlaJim, I’ve read the CSA constitutionm and it says nothing of the sort. On the contrary, it’s designed to perpetuate the institution of slavery.

        For example, under “State Citizens, Extradition”:

        “1. The citizens of each State shall be entitled to all the privileges and immunities of citizens in the several States; and shall have the right of transit and sojourn in any State of this Confederacy, with their slaves and other property; and the right of property in said slaves shall not be thereby impaired.”

        “3. No slave or other person held to service or labor in any State or Territory of the Confederate States, under the laws thereof, escaping or lawfully carried into another, shall, in consequence of any law or regulation therein, be discharged from such service or labor; but shall be delivered up on claim of the party to whom such slave belongs; or to whom such service or labor may be due.”

        ..and under “New States”:

        “The Confederate States may acquire new territory; and Congress shall have power to legislate and provide governments for the inhabitants of all territory belonging to the Confederate States, lying without the limits of the several Sates; and may permit them, at such times, and in such manner as it may by law provide, to form States to be admitted into the Confederacy. In all such territory the institution of negro slavery, as it now exists in the Confederate States, shall be recognized and protected by Congress and by the Territorial government; and the inhabitants of the several Confederate States and Territories shall have the right to take to such Territory any slaves lawfully held by them in any of the States or Territories of the Confederate States.”

        Thus, not only did they foresee and offer protection to slaveholders in new territories, they also kept in force the fugitive slave law. The only reference to slavery elsewhere is the prohobitionagainst importation of slaves from foreign countries.

    • always right

      Sir, you miss the point. Both slavery and the KKK are demoncrapic institutions. The Repulicraps are the ones who gave us the Civil Rights acts as the demoncraps fought against it tooth and nail. Add to this the NAACP with their teaching the blacks to hate whitey and at the same time, believe that they can’t make it without whitey and you have the three-legged stool (with a lot of fools, tools & “stools” preaching race-based hatred) of slavery, then and now as the demoncrpas are in bed with the NAACP and visa versa. The Confederate Flag has nothing to do with slavery. “Liberalism” does. The NAACP should tell blacks to get on their knees and praise God every day for the institution of slavery in the U.S.. There is no other nation on the face of the earth where the black man has as much freedom and potential as he does here. If not for slavery, a majority would not be here but in some diseased rat hole in sub-Saharan Africa. What he does with it his potential here in the U.S. is up to him. The demoncrpas and NAACP wants him to stay in indentured servitude to the party of welfare, plantations and slavery.

    • Les

      Rev. King would roll over in his grave to see his name invoked in such manner by those self serving pundits of socialism, racism and anti-freedom fighters. They revise truth and stir the class warfare so they can pillage the gullible and serve the elite. Re-writing of history aside, the Confederate Flag (also known as the Rebel Flag) represents rebellion against oppressive government, the true cause of the Civil War and the rejection of unlawful tariffs (Pres. Jackson). They have erected their own auction block to sell their hapless followers into entitlement slavery for profit.

  • Teresa

    The NAACP has become a mockery of an organization. They do not stand for the principles they once did.

    • http://MSN Bob

      I am a proud member, of the NAACP, and I’m white. The confederate flag, is a symbol of slavery, and no amount of white-washing bull crap, at this site, is going to change it.

      I’m also proud, to be a former West Virginian, which succeeded from Virginia, due to the issue of slavery.

      • Wanda Murline

        The flag sir is a piece of history…it was the flag of the south, and it was the flag of the south before the war. Pretty soon, you will want to be removing Lincoln’s statute in Washington as it may oppress someone. The civil war was over 100 years ago, it is history, it is done, slavery was bolished…it is time to move on. If they want to fly their flag, that is the state’s right. I see nothing wrong with it…for heaven’s sake, it is just a flag…I see them everywhere in the south…it was the flag of the southern states who were succeeding from the union and Lincoln could not have that, so he invaded the south and used slavery as his tool of choice for the war to deny the states their righ to succession.
        On January 12, 1848, a freshman Congressman from Illinois delivered his first major address to the House of Representatives. A clean shaven Abraham Lincoln declared….”Any people, anywhere, being inclined and having the power, have the right to rise up, to shake off the existing government, and form a new one that suits them better…”
        “This is mot valuable, a most sacred right, a right which we hope and believe will liberate the world.”

        Thirteen years later, President Lincoln refused to permit this country to become “a house divided”, and ordered Federal troops to invade the South, to prohibit the “most sacred right” of succession, he had previously defended.

        Maybe Lincoln wasn’t so truthful as everyone thought. The civil war was not about slavery….slavery was used as the choice of titles to invade the south to keep them from succeeding from the Union. So the flags don’t really represent an uncivility towards the people of color, they actually represent the history of denial by a government to allow the states to control their destinies.

        • independant thinker

          What is now flown as the Confederate flag is actualy the battle flag. The Confederate national flag was first very similar to the Bonnie Blue of Scotland quickly replaced by one with red, white, and blue colors on it. There were, I believe, 3 versions of the Confederate national flag with the last one (if I remember correctly) having the battle flag in the corner on a white field and a broad red stripe across the end.

        • Dogma-Free Too

          Incest and having sex with children is also part of American history, but you don’t see that proudly displayed, do you?

          Besides that, all this talk about ‘pride’…and you bible-thumpers should know better than anyone what your beloved ‘good book’ says about pride, should you not?

          Further more, just because something was a part of your history, doesn’t mean you should be proud of it. I doubt most Germans are proud of the Holocaust. Certainly not the German-born Jews.

          Actually, I suppose the only people who are proud of the holocaust, are the zipperhead neo-nazis. Incidentally, they also love the old Nazi Swastika flag, which seems to instill a sense of *pride* in them as well.

          hmmm…maybe man was right when he wrote that thing about ‘pride’ in the bible…

          • Tinman

            Hell dogma-free too, I did not know the muslims were here that early in the history of the U.S.

          • JC

            Dogma-Fed, Never fails to amaze me just how sick your mind really is.

          • http://! Angel Wannabe

            Dogma free toooooo___Your words> “Besides that, all this talk about ‘pride’…and you bible-thumpers should know better than anyone what your beloved ‘good book’ says about pride, should you not?”

            MY OPINION> Theres a big difference between “PRIDE” and pride.

            Definitions of pride on the Web:

            •a feeling of self-respect and personal worth
            •satisfaction with your (or another’s) achievements; “he takes pride in his son’s success”
            •the trait of being spurred on by a dislike of falling below your standards
            •a group of lions
            •be proud of; “He prides himself on making it into law school”

            THIS IS PART OF THE DEFINITION OF PRIDE WE “ALL” NEED TO STAY AWAY FROM!>>>>>”unreasonable and inordinate self-esteem (personified as one of the deadly sins)”

          • independant thinker

            Interesting isn’t it that one who uses the name of Dogma Free is so full of the dogma of the extreem left.

      • John H. Ellis, Matthews, N.C.

        always interesting to hear from a so called liberated person.
        supporting an organization whose leaders and members contribute close to 80% of our crime. Our honorable flag will always be a symble of
        freedom. Even the Black’s in Africa have carried that flag in their current effort of freedom from the communist, corrupt black leaders.
        Interesting how sucession of W. Va. was legal (not if you read the Constitution), but our leaving was illegal. The South was contributing 80% of Federal money. The country is today about where it was in 1860 – Long live the South and the Republic.

      • Jan Scallan

        Bob, to WHICH Confederate Flag are you referring or do you not know there is a difference? The one most widely recognized (and hated by the ignorant) was and is a Battle Flag used by troops in battle. It did not at all represent the Confederacy, slavery or any political leanings. It was pure and simple a Battle Flag to rally the troops. Maybe YOU need to read a little history before you start your liberal spouting. At least you Do know historically that W. Virginia bailed out of Virginia as they had their own fish to fry which had nothing what so ever to do with slavery. That part of your history class I guess you didn’t sleep through. Oh by the way, I am from Texas which was the ONLY state whose state flag was allowed to be used as a battle flag during the war of northern aggression. And also by the way, my ancestors fought and died on BOTH sides of that terrible needless conflict. You may not like true history, but don’t try to re-write it. Leave that to the politicians and special interest group leaders like Sharpton and Jackson.
        Don’t any of you idiots see that this crap we do ie; black against white, north/south, democrat/republican, liberal/conservative keeps us right where the elite wants the herd to be all the time. Good grief wake up and open your eyes to the truth about your government, about history and so on. Break out from the herd once in awhile and you’ll be surprised at what you can see with opened eyes.

        • Tinman

          Just to ask; is the flag your talking about the “Bonnie Blue”? The one the Texan Army carried to kick the shit out of Santa Anna and got their Liberty.

      • Teresa

        Bob, You are welcome to be a Proud member. Did you hear me mention the flag once? First you need to take history lessons. I do however think ANY organization that sends letters to public schools threatening them not to mention Christmas across the state of Tenn., as did the NAACP is nothing more than just a bunch of thugs. Like most organizations there will always be good and bad.

      • JKO

        Then please explain why slavery was not an issue for Lincoln until well into the Civil War. And he did not free all slaves, only those in the Confederacy. Perhaps you should read your own history in W. Virginia.
        The point is perspective. Southerners did not feel it was right for the Federal Govt. to tell them what to do and to be taxed differently than northern states. AND in their constitiution slavery was going to be abolished within a few years.
        There were many abolishonists in the south before the Civil War. Modern History is what has white washed this stuff…

        • Vigilant

          “AND in their constitiution slavery was going to be abolished within a few years.”

          NO WHERE to be found in the CSA constitution. Where do these rumors start?

  • albino

    The NAACP no longer has anything to do with race. It is all about PERSONAL POWER, whether it is Al Sharpton or their organizations. AMEN.

  • Ted Crawford

    Very well said Time! I can identify with your assurtion that the “Government Aid” costs much more than it helps! I grew up on that “Aid?”. In the area of Denver in which I lived at that time there were no blacks, but rather a high consintration of hispanics.
    I’m of Itialian decent but for bigots close is good enough, so I’m aware of the effects of racism. I therefore understand your views on the NAACP. I didn’t have a “support group” to tell me how I couldn’t succeed because “they” wouldn’t allow it. Instead I had an Uncle who helped me turn the hurt and anger I felt into determination rather than defeatism. I am eternaly greatful for that fact!

  • 1minuteman

    i dont know if they realize it but the actions of the naacp will end breeding new generations of white racists who see since they were born it is now whites that are persecuted. it will become a vicious circle if they dont realize equality is not reparations and affirmative action but a fair playing field for every race which is what i thought we achieved.

    • eddie47d

      A fair playing field has somewhat been achieved with the younger generations. Few of them think negatively about the black or Hispanic person standing with them in the employment line. My kids (in their 30′s)are amazingly non prejudicial and accepting. That wasn’t so true of folks in their 50′s or older but that has improved some. For some people fairness is only a positive allusion they may see on TV and they think everything is hunky dory. I still see few blacks moving into the suburbs and maybe that will never happen. It took years for the Italians or Jews to break out of their neighborhoods. Hispanics have moved into the suburbs and are mostly accepted but blacks who do don’t stay long. Is that their own fault or aren’t folks being neighborly? We all have to find our comfort zone in accepting others so maybe America isn’t fully engaged with blacks yet. When it comes to the Confederate flag it doesn’t bother me to see it on the back of a pickup truck but it has no place flying over a Capital or public building. An individual grave wouldn’t bother me either since it could be in respect of someones ancestor.

      • independant thinker

        “I still see few blacks moving into the suburbs and maybe that will never happen.”

        Don’t know where you live but the places I have lived over the past 30 or so years have had many blacks in the suburbs.

        • JeffH

          independant thinker, I have seen the transition also. Here in N.California I remember seeing the move starting shortly after the Vietnam War, mid 70′s, when the Vietnamese, Laosions and Mongs started moving into the poorer areas of the cities. I think this was partly responsible for a lot of the movement as well as the fact that many black families were excelling in business and in the workforce. I believe it was a natural progression that was caused by better economics and equality.

      • taxpayer

        eddie47d, you put everyone in the same boat. They may be some truth to what you say but it is a lie. Sorry but in my neighborhood we have black families I’ve known for 35 years, they did not move, I have Hispanic, Asian, yes even white. We are not at war with each other, but all work for the betterment of our own families. Yes some move out and others move in. All are homes and right now none are for sale. So not all move back. Yes we can get along!

        Any group that is started has to justify why they are needed. If the need goes away then a new need will have to be created or the group will dissolve. NAACP knows if equality happens they will go away so they have to create the hate. Governments have used this and will use this to keep us needing them. Hard to believe at one time our government was a part time group meeting at times, as they had to also earn a living. Now they are the elite. They cannot change direction and so ends the way of this country. It will collapse because instead of working together we fight each other. Most believe they are entitled so the government will take care of them. When it is fair to tax certain people more, then it is also fair to give others more. We lose the motivation to work hard for what we get and expect the government to take care of all our needs, food stamps, unemployment, obamacare, and the list goes on. Our form of government has failed, what will it become?

  • JKO

    As a southerner I will point out that the Confederate flag is not about racism (from our point of view). It is more about state’s rights. The Feds should not come in and tell a state what it can and can’t do. Now I do agree that slavery is wrong but the first and formost reason for the CIvil War was about taxes, not slavery – that came later. I will also point out that the Emancipation Proclamation only freed some slaves, not all.

    There was a Black man (Walter Williams I think)that would fill in for Rush on occasion. He once said that he had a Confederate flag behind his desk. He said for him it was to remind us that we are a Federation of states and the Govt. only has specific powers and this was not one of them.

    Now please don’t jump on me here. I am not advocating slavery and there were many in the south that were also against it. I’m saying it was handled incorrectly. The Feds could have stopped the allowance of slave ships in our waters and that would have been within their powers. This would have stopped the war and many lives would have been saved, including Black’s lives as many of them fought in the war.

    • ValDM

      Thank you for setting the record straight on the Civil War. I’m always surprised to learn that soooo many people don’t know the origins of the war between the states. It was all about CONTROL. The North wanted what the South had. The railroad barons couldn’t stand the idea that they couldn’t get their hands on the South’s rail lines. That was only one of many causes for the war. But money and power were at the very heart of it.

      • thinking

        funny thing about wars, they are about power and money and taking from someone else. The French helped us get free from England. We helped the French get free from the Germans. The French under nepolian wanted to rule the world. The swiss don’t fight against any country. The French were in viet nam and we went in to help to stop what we believed was wrong. We cut off the japanise oil supply and they attacked us. Oh the list goes on and on, always about money, power, ownership, being more right. Odd how we think we have the answer to how someone else should live. The bible says it best. remove the tree from your own eye before trying to take the splinter from someone elses eye.

  • elda

    If I am not mistaken the NAACP was organized by a group of White people in an effore to get Blacks all the rights promised by people like George Washington and all that gave their lives that all Americans can be free. I guess it has changed a bit.

    • http://! Angel Wannabe

      Time, I can in a way sympathize with minority groups. I am lily white and Growing up we were poor as church mice. My Mother was severly crippled and Daddy worked in a mill. Most kids in school were from mid to upper middle class families and I sure as hell didn’t fit in, and they left me know it. I wore second hand or homemade clothes, when Mom could still use her hands to make them. She made using a pair of scissors and a sewing machine look like an art, with the way she had to do it, to get it done. What she couldn’t do I did. She couldn’t flatten her hands enough to feed the material through the sewing machine, so she used a small thin flat board.__
      __At school, when the kids saw my Mother at parent Teachers conference in school, I played hell the next week, and ended up in the principles office more often than not, for beating the hell of some smart alleck kid for calling Mother a Monster. There was no childhood, I went from being 6 years old to 2o in a very short period of time, and learned not everything was fair & not everyone was going to be your friend. __My point is no matter what your circumstance WAS, wether it is poor, abused, you don’t have to stay there. Ya can’t your skin color obviously, but you can eventually move on,its a choice.__In response to the Naacp, I have to agree with you Time that it has out grown its usefulness. As it was founded by I believe White men. My question here is, what would a White man know about being black? We CAN stay angry and hateful about our circumstance the rest of our lives, or we can take what we’ve learn from it and move on._I choose to move on and I’ve never forgotten where I came from.

      • TIME

        I know what your saying, we were dirt poor as I have said before.
        The Japanese folks that raised me were big hearted and gave me LOVE.
        That alone is worth more than I can state.
        Its what gave me a solid foundation to stand on, as well I was brought up a Buddhist so I saw the world from a very differant view than most of classmates.

        I am responsible for my only self, no one else is. What I do I must face, I may aid others on my path but I am not their keeper nor they mine, nor should they give me their wealth when I can make my own.
        I am able and have two arms, two legs and a strong work ethic, and many extra folds in my gray matter. I Thank God for all my blessings.

        I have given gladly to many and will do so until I am nothing more than dust of what then I will yield back to Mother Earth again of myself.

  • Mark Belk

    The NAACP was founded and run by “white” jews and most of the activists were trained by communists in a training facility in Tennessee, this includes the whore monger Martin Luther King. With the black race in the predicament it’s in, and crime against the white race by the blacks at the level it is, how can anyone say the civil rights movement was good for anybody?

    • http://none Alex

      Man, you are perhaps the most ignorant person who has ever written on this blog, and that is saying something. Go crawl back in your Hole of Stupidity.

      • eddie47d

        No hiding Mark’s race baiting or trying to turn one side against another.

      • http://gunner689 gunner689

        Truth hurts, doesn’t it ?

        • eddie47d

          No truth in what Mark said so that says volumes about you.

  • Thinker

    When the Census form asked my race, I wrote:

    “I have a dream that my four children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin but by the content of their character.” Dr. King

    “And has made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and has determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation” Bible (Acts 17:26)

    “All humans share about 99.9% of the same DNA.” Modern Genetics

    Since great philosophers, Religion, and Science all agree that “race” is meaningless – why are YOU (census) so interested in it?

    Signed _________

    Have a great Thursday everyone!

  • http://none Alex

    Many White people were surprised, if not plain outraged, when Attorney General Eric Holder said soon after taking office that this country had still to properly address the subject of Race.

    “How can he say such a thing?”, many asked, “We’ve just elected a Black president!”

    As historic as President Obama’s election was, the simple truth is that after seeing thousands of our young mercenaries hurled to their deaths in an ill-conceived war made from whole cloth, the worst attack on this country in history despite prior warning, the suspension of Civil Rights and approval of torture, and the turning of a budget surplus into a deficit of mammoth proportions, ANY Democrat (Obama, Clinton, Franken) would have beaten ANY Republican (McCain, Huckabee, Romey)! Heck, me or Bernie Sanders would have shown the Rethuglicans the door. Barack Obama became our president because he is NOT a Republican. Also, Barack Hussein Obama is DECIDEDLY NOT the Socialist (Ha!) or Marxist (HAAA!!!) so many ignormii rave about on these columns. Those of us on the Left in fact, the tolerant and peaceable and curious people who read books and get their information from more than just a couple of sources, are growing more dissatisfied with President Obama by the DAY—-he is just another middle-of-the-road political schemer meant to keep our bloated Ark of Capital afloat. The point here, of course, is that Maxine Waters or Dr Cornel West could have easily been our first Black president had they run in 2008—it did not matter. The American people were sick of the Bush Crime Family.

    So, back to the comment by Attorney General Eric Holder…

    That this country has yet to truthfully address the pervasive Subject of Race is evident in the comments of people like Haley Barbour, who doesn’t remember segregation as being all that bad. The inadequacy of our Great National Debate can be seen in the public displays of the very rag shown on this page above, the dreaded Stars-n-Bars, symbol of violent racist traitors.

    If there were such a thing as an Al Queda flag and I flew it from my home, I would not be long for this Sad and Beautiful World. I would surely be a victim of Sharon Anger’s “Second Amedment remedies…” Well, Robert E. Lee killed WAY more Americans than Osama bin Laden and the flag of his short-lived Evil Empire is still flown in places in the White Estates of Amerika. The ugly rock faces of slaveowners George Washington and Tom Jefferson stare out across stolen property. We name schools after Washington and Lee and Jefferson but none after Nat Turner or John Brown the Liberator.

    As has so often been pointed out, by so many people so many times for so many, many years, Race is THE Great Schism in American Culture, a divide that runs so deep that it is at times easy to avoid altogether by simply keeping one’s eyes on the skies, never looking down at the muck we slide through. But it is there, always. Unaddressed.

    White Europeans just have a habit of, well, seeing the Earth as an exploitable and tamable means of commerce, or, more often, a means of personal enrichment inside a fake fur of Patriotism. When they got to the New World their greedy beady eyes set upon a vast expanse of Stuff Guys Like from one ocean to the next.

    Cut forward to 1865. The War of Southern Belligerence is over. The slaves have been “freed”…..not so fast, you say? Why is the word ‘freed’ in quotation marks? Well, I’ll tell you.
    Rather than welcome their new old fellow citizens as neighbors and coworkers and classmates, most of White Amerika shunned Blacks in all strata of Society. Therefore, the twelve or nine million (I always forget the number)Different Style Americans who had formerly been the UWWBNGWPSCSA (Unpaid Workers Who Built the Nation and Got Whipped in the Process and Saw Their Children Sold Away) were now, as a group, effectively homeless and jobless.
    The smarter Blacks got the Hell out of Hell and headed North or West, though racial miasma is endemic anywhere White people gather (you can look it up!). They just have a problem with other Peoples, plain and simple. Believe me, I know. I have lived amongst the Whites most of my life. My own two parents, in fact, our Caucasoids, same as my sisters! Weird….but anyway, like I was saying, Whites have just always had a problem with the Earth’s Other Peoples.

    When the former slaves reached the Great Cities of the North the manifestations of racism were somewhat veiled in comparison things back in Hell. It is important to remember that New York and other Northern cities were rocked by Civil War era riots sparked by white guys that did not want to fight to free the Blacks.

    One curious aspect of White racism is that it seems so closely aligned to a person level of melanin. That is why it has always angered me when White people say, “Hey, the Chinese were hated and raped, and the Italians were hated and raped and they all made it here. We hate and rape everybody the same, it’s only the Blacks that are still screwed up!” Well, hold on a minute: show me the photos of White families laughing under the swaying bodies of Italians. Show me the photos of little White children holding daddy’s hand next to the charred, smoking body of a Chinese. Can’t do it, can you?

    No, White Amerika holds a special fear for Black people. We love slappin’ skin with the brothers at work and dancing nervously through mixed crowds, but we still go home and lock ourselves in with fear and distrust and, so often, HATE. This most curious of Caucasian traits, this inability to see Black people as fellow human beings, capable of everything we are capable of, can been seen in the way that President Obama was blistered for bowing to the Japanese and to the Saudis, yet not a peep when both Presidents Bush practically got their lying tongues stuck down the throats of various Saudi ministers, kissing like Southern siblings. Two-faced White people, I’m telling you. Liars and hypocrites. And terrorists, too.

    That’s the other Race thing I want to touch on before I go to bed: Racial terrorism. Ever since my childhood, when I first saw through the Big Fat Lie that was my country, I have been angered by the evil acts of racism that went unpunished. Yes, of course, Blacks have killed Whites and gotten away with it, but not to the level of unpunished White on Black terrorism.

    Even beyond the killings, those nasty looking White ladies spitting on Black schoolchildren in Little Rock and the crewcut hooligans beating lunch-counter liberators should be given a chance to formally apologize for their un-American activities. If dead, than their offspring should be given the opportunity to apologize on their behalf. What this country needs (well, one of the MANY things this country needs) is a series of Truth and Reconciliation Hearings. This might go a long way, actually, in righting the horrible wrongs we have done.

    • always right

      WOW! This is breathtaking ignorance in action!!! Dude, blacks commit crimes against white at a rate 7-240 times of that of whites against blacks. They’re also hugely overrepresented in serial killings, with a disproportionate number of their crime victims being whites. Read “The color of Crime”, drawn right from DOJ statistics. You’re a perfect example of why the NAACP should be abolished by Federal decree, as you’ve been created (in you case) “hole cloth” (as in “butt rag”) by the race-baiting “hate whitey” racist sickness in America. Where in the world do A-H’s like you come from? Do you ever actually read anything other than the right “Reverend” Jesse Jackson , Wright and mullah Farrakahn?

      • eddie47d

        He may have made some ignorant comments but you outdid him by a long shot.

      • JKO

        Same race on same race crime is much more common than across races. I know there are exceptions but think about things like Rodney King. Blacks looted and damaged property in their own neighborhoods – which never made sense to me. This also happens in white neighborhoods where something “bad” happens and the people feel the need to riot. Crime is about hate and rarely about skin color. Call me naive if you want, but the info I have read has told me this.

      • JKO

        My reading tells me that most crime is same race on same race. Yes there are exceptions. Crime is about hate and / or selfishness, not racism.

        • JKO

          Sorry to repeat myself. There was a glitch and I did not think the first one “took”.

      • http://none Alex

        Hold on—Serial killers are nearly ALWAYS White, you moron.
        Blacks commit murder, yes. White people commit heinous grisly mutilation murders and are much more likely to commit mass murder, serial murders. White people are much more likely than Blacks to be pedophiles. It’s just the truth, and you canlook it up.

        • libertytrain

          Gee Alex – you may want to do a little Googling – or perhaps a library for newspaper reports but there are many. Perhaps it’s an equal percentage of serial killers per white population as serial killers per black population. I don’t know, I don’t feel like researching serial killers but there’s been a few in the news very recently.

        • Dogma-Free Too

          So, what you’re saying, Alex, is that when it comes to murder, and having sex with young children…that Whites are much more *ambitious* than Blacks are…is that correct?

          HELL, YEAH!! HIGH-FIVES FOR WHITEY YET AGAIN!! Whites are number one (in serial murder AND having sex with children)!!

          …pffft…and who said pride was a bad thing…??

          Oh, wait…yeah, I guess I said that.

          Oh, right…and the bible may have also mentioned it as well.

        • Jerry

          Whoa, Alex-you are one sick and pathetic individual. Better get counseling, sounds like you may be the next serial killer. Your pathetic ravings are hatefilled and idiotic. Please -get help!

          • JC

            Note that Dogma-Fed joins right in.

        • http://?? Joe H.

          You might want to google Cleveland Ohio and the latest serial killer here!! I believe the latest number is eleven he killed. Oh, and he happens to be Black!!! They were all buried on his property!! His name is Anthony Sowell.

          • http://none Alex

            Joe H—If you read what I wrote you will see that I clearly said “more likely”, and that is true. That is not to suggest that there are NO Black serial killers or child molesters, it is just that the rate per capita is lower than for Whites.

          • independant thinker

            “it is just that the rate per capita is lower than for Whites.”

            Provide some statistics on that please with sources.

    • Dave

      I understand your bitterness, but if you could distance yourself from your feelings, you might see there are whites trying to help the situation, and they are not all liberals. Many liberals are actually helping to keep blacks in place through the government programs that rob people of their pride (read Thomas Sowell) Today, more than ever I see people coming together as one. No it is not Utopia, but it illustrates that people come to this country every day in pursuit of the America dream. It might also be said that those writing US history, whether it is written by white liberal college professors, black college professors, Chinese or Russian history professors about the US, it can not help but be tainted by the perspective of the writers.

      I am seeing a great mix of cultures in my own home as my daughter, adopted from China, brings her friends together into a “white” home. While the majority of her friends are Asian, and primarily Vietnamese, she also has friends of many races and religions. They all get along wonderfully. They would be hard-pressed to understand the level of anger from a time, that to them, is very distant.

      As a former high school teacher I can attest that there is no difference in the potential for achievement between the races. The real difference is attitude, and that starts at home. The kids who are taught they are entitled to something they did not earn, are left in the dust by those kids (usually first generation Americans) that understand that the world is not standing still, and they were given a great opportunity, all they have to do is earn it. I know of more than a few people, new to this country, without college educations, who out-earn by no small amount those with far more privilege.

      We generally view the world through the lens of our heart. If you approach life from a more accepting viewpoint, people will reflect that back to you.

      • Dave.

        Relative to education,infrastructure, and grades/SAT’s etc., we have five new schools built in our town; does that equate with better grades, more opportunity for better businesses, etc?? I think not; we had “black boards”, chalk, erasers, books and a teacher. The ancient Greeks had a teacher and students, our education system was homes with families and a Bible, New England Primer and maybe Pilgrim’s Progress – the common denominator; people more specifically parents. Effectively take them from the equation and replace with computers, day care, and gazillion dollar whatever’s and you have ignorance, apathy and no socialization.
        In short: infrastructure does not equate with learning; just more debt, more expensive stuff to trash, and more despair as we as a country sink below ignorance and apathy.

    • JeffH

      Alex comments are a prime example of a racist liberals hate rant.
      Well, no HFlash today, someone has to fill in.

    • Jan Scallan

      Alex, doesn’t really make any difference what race you are because no one really cares. However, racist attitudes like yours are what will always keep the races at each others throats. The politicians chuckle while the people fight each other and otherwise keep themselves busy and out of the elite’s affairs. Sad.

      • http://none Alex

        That is why we should have Truth and Reconciliation Hearings.

    • http://gunner689 gunner689

      It’s not the color of the skin but the content of the character of the person that matters. If you don’t want to be stereotyped don’t act stereotypical.

      • Dogma-Free Too

        Said the pot to the kettle, gunner689…?

    • Dogma-Free Too

      Bravo, Alex…bravo, indeed.

      No doubt, you will be shouted down by those who fear opinions different than their own here, but at least you had the balls to say what needed to be said, and get the truth out there.

      I suppose what will be most telling, are the reactions to your post.

  • xrugr

    Thanks to all for the thoughtful comments. It is nice to see thoughtful discourse instead of hate-filled, knee-jerk rants. “Time’s” comments and “Carl’s” response are right-on.

    However, being white, I understand “JKO’s” hesitation to “lead the charge” in these matters, as white’s who enter the conversation are instantly targeted as being racists and haters. I have been in the presence of white and black liberal politicians being very dismissive of conservatives arguments by simply labeling the conservative as a “racist.” No discussion of the content of the argument, just ignore the conservative because by his positions he is clearly a racist and a hater.

    However, these conversations should be aired in order to make real progress. Instead, the media perpetuates the divide by giving voice to extremists on the right and leftists with an agenda.

    No government can, or should, mandate equal outcome under the law, since outcome depends on input. All government should do is make sure everyone has an equal opportunity.

    “Time” correctly points out that the system pushed by the NAACP enslaves the very people it purports to help (in order to empower it’s “leaders.”) And 1Minuteman has a good point that programs pushed by the NAACP cause resentment in people who are not of African descent. Very devisive, and a Vicious cycle indeed.

  • Mike Ruzza

    The NAACP is itself an anachronism–old, useless and long overcome by events. Now they are a bitter group of haters and power hungry folks. There is no longer a ‘need’ for them in today’s America. They should disband or meld themselves into a larger group with a broader focus. The struggle for ‘civil rights’ is over–and has been for sometime now. The continuing struggle for our culture, economic empowerment, religion and others are ongoing. I suggest a refocusing if they wish to see themselves as relevant anymore. This sad display of flag hating is about as needed as a company of soldiers in confederate uniforms marching through downtown DC. You can’t ‘ban’ everything; you’d be much better served following Dr. King’s tactics of winning hearts and minds through dialogue and understanding. I also think by further separating yourselves from the rest of America through all these African-American this and that; you only isolate yourselves and your people from the greater America where most of us live and play everyday. That America happily embraces people from every race and creed; and it is more prevalent than our politicians and false prophets of doom will ever admit. It’s a big country–stop putting yourselves in the ‘blacks only’ closet and let’s all get along together. Now wouldn’t THAT be a better legacy for Dr. King??

  • Bert Cundle

    Well… A Vast Majority Don’t know, that the K.K.K. Was a Vigalanty Org! With White & BLACK Members!Advocating Seperation of Races. The Famious Dream of a loon, put on a pedistal, given Respectfull Titles; was a NIGHTMARE fo many, Blacks & Whites! The Confererate FLAG, WAS JUST THAT! AGAINST THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT Inforceing Sanctions & Laws on the States Sovernty. The Union of States Was Supported by the States for the “Defense” of the STATES. I’ve tried to use the Constitution of the U.S. of A. against the California Government,Useing the CRIMINAL SYSTEM, With no Effect!( IN MY FIGHT FOR CIVIL RIGHTS.) But I’m an UNDERACHIVER White!

  • Rob

    Let it be said and clearly understood once and for all….The Confederate Battle Flag (The Stars and Bars)is definitely NOT a racist symbol….never was and never will be. The War of northern Agression was NOT fought over slavery. Grab a history text book from the 50s or 60s (not the liberal garbage being force fed to the youth today) and you’ll discover the war was waged over states sovereignty and rights. Nothing else. As northern interest and support for the war waned over the years, Lincoln played the slavery card solely to bolster public opinion and procure funds from their government. Little taught fact….there were huge numbers of slaves in New York and Illinois.

    The Stars and Bars is a glorious, shining symbol that should be revered and embraced by ALL Americans. She’s a symbol of the American people’s right to oppose an out of control federal government and stand up for what the Founding Fathers envisioned for our land. During these dark days of government overbearance, The Confederate Battle Flag MUST be flown proudly and without hinderance. The South of the mid 19th century may very well have been right afer all………………

    • eddie47d

      The Confederate flag should be an individuals choice but never again a nation’s choice. The Civil War was about States rights (the right to own slaves). Yes,that was an issue and the flag represents division and hate and it never needs to be in NATIONAL prominence again.

      • Rob

        With all due respect,eddie47d, I do have to disagree with you on states rights. It (The War of northern Agression) was NOT about the right to own slaves, but it went much, much deeper. 99.999% of the Southern population did not own slaves and only a few of the Confederate states utilized that hideous institution. Why would the common man fight and die for something that was not the norm at the time?

      • JKO

        As sated before, it began as taxation without representation. Slavery was brought in later. AND only confederate slaves were freed, not the others – that was left up for the state to decide…. you know as in states rights – oh yeah…

    • JeffH

      The Confederate Flag does not represent “division and hate” or even racism. A bit of simple education would dispell that “myth”.

      Confederate Flag History

      In February 1862, the First Congress of the Confederate States assembled in Richmond. The new members of Congress reflected the changing feelings of the people toward the flag. One of the first actions of the new Congress was to appoint a new Joint Committee on Flag and Seal with instructions to consider and propose a new Confederate Flag. On 19 April 1862 the committee submitted it’s report to both Houses of Congress. While the debate over a new National Flag for the Confederate States of American was going on, the Army of Northern Virginia had been engaged in several battles under it’s Battle Flag. A great amount of Confederate blood was spilled under the Battle Flag. Because of this members of Congress, and the citizens of the Confederacy, wanted the Battle Flag incorporated into the CSA National Flag as a way of paying respect to the Confederate Soldiers that were wounded and killed fighting for the new nation’s freedom and independence. Senate Bill No. 132 was put into formal language by Representative Peter W. Gray of Houston, Texas. This bill was passed on to the senate and passed with very little debate. Later that same day President Davis signed the bill and gave the new flag to the Confederate States of America. The new flag became official on the 1st of May 1863.

      This second National Confederate Flag was referred to as the “Stainless Banner” because of it’s pure white field, and was said to represent the purity of the cause which it represented. One of the first uses for the new flag was to drape the coffin of General Thomas J. “Stonewall” Jackson. General Jackson as he lay in state in the Confederate House of Representatives on 12 May 1863. By the order of President Davis, his coffin was draped with the first of the new National Confederate flags to be manufactured. This very first “Stainless Banner” is now on display in the Museum of the Confederacy in Richmond. Because of it’s use on General Jackson’s coffin the new flag is at times referred to as the “Jackson Flag”. The Second National Flag was replaced by the Third National Flag in 1865.

    • Norma46

      Speaking for myself, I think the only flag over a government building should be the Old Glory. The confederate flag, while a historical emblem creates too much. I fear that some day we will all forget what our country has overcome in order to have the right to display our national flag. Think about it. 9/11, Korea, Vietnam, the south pacific, Germany. The age old rants about race are now a moot point. We are a human race. It no longer matters what color your skin is, we all bleed red.

      • independant thinker

        I believe the flag mentioned in the article was not over a government building but at a monument to the fallen Southern solders on the capitol grounds.

    • http://none Alex

      People who continue to deny slavery as the REAL reason for the War of Southern Belligerence have drank too long from the Kool-ade jug of ignorance.

      The swastika is an ancient symbol whose value has now been ruined by the Nazis, and in turn by today’s Teagaggers, neo-conartists, White supremacists, and other intolerant backwards xenophobes. Same thing with the Stars and Bars—any cultural value was usurped by stupid people. That is why only ignorant people still display that rag.

      • http://?? Joe H.

        contrary to what you say, tea partiers are not racists. I am a member and I have never worn, nor will I ever wear a swastica! you come off as a very ignorant progressive of very limited life experience and you are very easily led by the nose by the progressive movement!!

        • JeffH

          Joe H., Alex is just another liberal racist idiot shiat disturber.

          • libertytrain

            Seriously depressed person.

  • Dr. Mabuse

    Time, you are a Negro. To assert that you’re “black” requires a suspension of reality. You actually have the unmitigated gall to speak of “pride” yet you couch it in terms like “well the blacks have “ZERO PRIDE” in anything , why would they they are tought to do nothing and get paid for it.”
    “Why is that, 75% of all black males will never even finish high school, so hows that Pride thing working out there?
    72% of all black females will have a baby by age 15, again locked into the system, so again I ask hows that Pride thing working out?
    Nearly 7 out of 10 blacks don’t trust banks, they don’t trust Whites, they don’t trust dogs. Hell 8 out of 10 blacks can’t even speak the english langauge!So what Ebonic’s is the answer? I think not.”
    What comic book did you get those per centages out of?
    You really sound like a white boy.
    As far as the NAACP is concerned, if you’d done your homework:

    The NAACP was founded on February 12, 1909 by a diverse group composed of Du Bois, Ida B. Wells, Archibald Grimké, Henry Moscowitz, Mary White Ovington, Oswald Garrison Villard, William English Walling (the last son of a former slave-holding family), and Florence Kelley, a social reformer and friend of Du Bois.
    At its founding, the NAACP had only one African American on its executive board, Du Bois himself. It did not elect a black president until 1975, although executive directors had been African American. The Jewish community contributed greatly to the NAACP’s founding and continued financing. Jewish historian Howard Sachar writes in his book A History of Jews in America of how, “In 1914, Professor Emeritus Joel Spingarn of Columbia University became chairman of the NAACP and recruited for its board such Jewish leaders as Jacob Schiff, Jacob Billikopf, and Rabbi Stephen Wise.” Early Jewish-American co-founders included Julius Rosenwald, Lillian Wald, Rabbi Emil G. Hirsch and Wise.

    You’d place the blame where it clearly belongs.

    • independant thinker

      Hate to tell you this Dr Obtuse but Negro means Black.

      • Bert Cundle

        There are Blacks from other parts of Africa, from NIGERIA…

        • Bert Cundle

          AM I FROM: Sacramento or CALIFORNIA, or UNITED STATES of AMERICA Or North America OR AMERICAS! (NONE WRONG,)

          • Bert Cundle

            BUT: I’m a “UNITED STATES CITIZEN”, Resident of California. American by support of, American Jurisprudance! Now the Puzzle is put together! With the right peices in the Right Places!

      • Dr. Mabuse

        No pal, you’re just a hater plain and simple. Nothing independent about that. If you had an acute grasp of what I was referring to you’d realize that “black” is a state of mind. Case in point, I got a friend named Gatewood. He’s about 6’3″, 220 lbs. Blond hair, green eyes, Aryan chiseled features. He’s more “black” in his mindset than some “brothers” I know. He cracks me up talking about how some white folks really feel about blacks. Behind closed doors, as he puts it, all the hate and vitriol spews out unabated. Go figure, huh?

        • JC

          Every time black people wanna have a good time, niggaz F*** it up!
          ~ Chris Rock

          Ironic isn’t it?

          (Bill Cosby has something similar to say, but he does says it with a little more class.)

          Personally, I feel there are low lives in every race.
          I’m white (Irish White :)) and two of my favorite people in the world are black guys work with and I know well. Hard working people who share my values. I’m not letting the NAACP or any other race baiting outfit tell me what to think about anything.

  • Herbert Baumann

    You had all better listen to TIME. I’m in total agreement but I cannot voice such opinions because I am white. Our social programs have enslaved blacks MORE than prior to their existence. We need to stop enslaving them with these programs and help them by expecting EVERYONE to show the same respect and responsibility to themselves, their family, their community and their country!

  • eddie47d

    It would be nice if we could all move on and I’m hopeful that day will come. Discrimination is slowly disappearing although whites like to say they are now being discriminated against. We need to find a balance for someone will always feel cheated upon by others. We have the MALDEF (Mexican American Legal Defense Fund);Anti-Defamation League (ant-Semitism);UFW(United Farm Workers);Human Rights Watch in New York (Mostly serves in other parts of world to fight oppressive governments and against torture); National Women’s Law Center (helps them in school and workforce);National Urban League(Economic development in minority communities);JACL (Japanese American rights);NGLTF (Gay rights);Innocence Project( Saves those who are wrongly convicted). There are many more and Whites have several groups also but most of those white groups are for the purpose of tearing others down not building themselves up. It would be nice if there wasn’t any need for any of these organizations so let’s help them achieve their goals and make them unnecessary. Try to be kind,accepting,tolerant and help all Americans have the same opportunities under our Constitution.

  • Dave.

    I’m white but being a Christian, realizing that “the heart of the problem is the problem of the heart”, that there is only one race, and that Christ died for “whosoever”, that “my brothers and sisters” exist throughout time and throughout the globe, and those opposing Christ come in all colors; Stalin, Hitler, etc were “white” as was Darwin, et al.

  • http://PersonalLibertyDigest Randy 131

    The NAACP wants the Confederate flag removed from the capital of South Carolina because it reminds them of slavery? Who among them was ever a slave under that flag that it reminds them of the hardships suffered under slavery? This has nothing to do about reminding anyone of their suffering under slavery, but mainly about wielding power to enforce others to yield to their whims. The Civil war was not started over slavery, but in defense of state’s rights. Only when the Union was about to lose the war did Lincoln write the Emancipation Proclamation to use as a rallying point to keep the Union from losing, and it worked because of the white peoples deep belief in human rights. All southern states are proud of their heritage and their stand for state’s rights, which that flag represents, but no true southern American believes in or thinks that flag represents slavery. How do the black youth of today justify saying that flag represents slavery when none alive today has the slighest experience of what slavery is or meant. Unfortunately the black leadership propagandizes this subject in order to keep the reason for their leadership and hold their members under control to rally them to their agenda, just as Lincoln did with the Emancipation Proclamation, to bad these young blacks don’t have the same deep belief in human rights as did the white people that rallied for the end of slavery and helped win the war for the Union, for the Confederate flag does not mean slavery for anyone, no matter how hard the black leadership try to convince those who never experienced it and knows nothing of its evils today, but is just a symbol of ones heritage.

    • Rob

      Amen, Randy. That post speaks volumes and is the gospel truth.

    • http://gunner689 gunner689

      How about we remove the NAACP from the State of South Carolina ?

      • Bert Cundle


        • http://gunner689 gunner689

          Yes, WE. The great collective We who are sick of these poverty pimps who keep stirring the race pot to line their own pockets. The We who are tired of people using something that happened a couple of hundred years ago as an excuse to be a leech on society today. That We.

          • eddie47d

            Are you actively trying to get rid of the KKK also or just blowing smoke?

          • http://gunner689 gunner689

            I believe that the KKK, other than a few small remnants, is gone. There are skin head groups and Neo Nazi organizations but they are of little relavence and aren’t blackmailing gvts. and industry like the NAACP and the poverty pimps do.

  • Remember?

    Since a few are bringing up History, just thought I’d mention that the Civil War (bloodiest war in American history) was waged by Democrats who wanted to keep black people subjugated as property.

    The KKK was the militant arm of the Democrat Party.

    Robert Byrd was a Democrat.

    Dr. King was a Republican.

    But I’m sure in about 20 seconds someone will post a bunch of reasons why they think Republicans are the racist “white” party. Oh well, I guess history is only important to those who know it matters.

    Just to be clear, I’m sure there are racist Republicans. Heck, I know people of different ethnic groups who are racist against other people IN THEIR OWN GROUPS.

    I’ll never comprehend why people can be so proud or ashamed of something THEY HAD ABSOLUTLEY NOTHING to do with. Seriously folks, if you want to be proud of something, then accomplish something – be a good person.

    That is all.


    The once intended unity for civil rights for blacks and all groups who felt the lash of discrimation was the goal of the NAACP, MLK a man of the times brought pride in asking for “equality”. Since the death of this man, his words still have the same meaning but the folowing leadership of those who herald themselves as anti discrimination foes are more against equality as they pursue some kind of elite status by use of intimidation. It is now fitting that NAALCP be the motto and the goal for the post agenda since the demise of MLK, liberalism has contaminated the oganization and besmirched the teachings of a man who gave equality a greater clarity. There ought to be a law.

  • R.L.S.

    I am a Midwesterner, most likely having had ancestry on both sides of the War Between the States, as well as are members of my family including my in-laws. The Confederate States of America Battle flag is widely recognized, while the National flags are not as recognized due to the fact that people are ignorant of USA and CSA history. The Union also had its various battle flags, but are not seen as much presently. In that we have had people die on both sides of the Mason-Dixon Line it is important to remember both sides, thus the reason to have the Confederate symbolism at memorials.

    In later years after the war, veterans of the Confederate side were recognized by the US government as well, with some widows receiving pensions from that time, in that their loved ones died in that war.

    It is not the flag that is inflammatory. It is the NAACP, and those who would still like to have the South under their thumb whom are inflammatory, and have proven such. It is time to get the racist elements and divisive elements of our society in check, lest it divide the nation to a state that is difficult to heal from. I fear that it may come in our lifetimes if nothing is done to address these matters now.

  • Aix Sponsa

    If the USA was turned over to “black America” in 5 years this nation would be like Haiti. Destroyed from the inside out both economically and infrastructurally.

  • Aix Sponsa

    Did you see the movie “Bulworth”? He slapped the racial wars and the political wars right across the face. I suggest watching it several times, and listening. Of course, he also suggested that the only way to stop the racial wars is for all to keep interbreeding until we are all the same color. I disagree with robbing the rich to give to the chosen poor. TEACH A MAN TO FISH.

    • Aix Sponsa

      In case you care: ALL my people came over from Europe 100 years ago seeking a better life, and worked with integrity and honor to achieve such for themselves and their posterity.

  • mike

    When will people remember, this was a battle flag for the south as was the stars and bars for the north. Each state in America could vote to be a free or slave state. There just as many slave states in the North, so should we also want to get rid of the stars and bars also? History is history. Why should history be rewritten just because we don’t agree with parts of it? If all of history were changed because this person or that group doesn’t like how it reads, then there would no longer be any history of mankind.

    • Aix Sponsa

      Good point Mike. But a large portion of American history taught today IS revisionist history. Check out what was taught 80 years about the civil war. You will see that slavery was a minor issue.

      Oh ya, the school team is no longer the “Indians”. It racially offended them.

      • eddie47d

        Aix; Maybe slavery was left out of books because it was too embarrassing to talk about back then. The KKK was also prominent 80 years ago and might have had a say in how the books were written.Hopefully we can be more honest today and maybe today’s books reflect that. Now if the NAACP is doing more harm than good then they need to wise up and change direction or disband.

        • independant thinker

          Since as the saying goes “history is written by the victors” I doubt very much anyone was too embaressed to write about it in the history books.

  • barbm

    why can’t my white sons apply for scholarships through the naacp? is that not racism? all scholarships should be merit based. we’re all guaranteed a free education through grade 12 even if it takes us 21 years to get there. with pell grants for poor college students, there’s no reason a person who wants to can’t go to college. the playing field is level, so why are schlarships still based on race and gender instead of how hard you’re willing to work to get them?


    NAACP is out of date, how about we start a NAAWP !, I’ve grown tired of their crap, it’s 2011, stop bellyaching !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


    Slavery: The obamnation every one who uses it is covering up his/her weakness as to what slavery really is and what it’s all about…

    Slavery is the taking of the spoils of conquest, nothing more….

    Slavery has been the Mode that has been since the beginning of time…

    When conquest is complete, if no gold existed, the conquerers took bodies in lieu of valuables….

    It’s some what like taking prisoners of war substituted labor for payment by the losing party…It was more Humain in place of killing them….

    Are you starting to get the message?????

    Now a days if you lose a battle, you just pay the winners the money called reparations……or offer human bounty Hence called Slaves…

    So, what’s the problem if some pompus chief sells some of his herd, it
    is just smart biz to make a profit on a transaction, and is currently in use every day in this modern world today…

    So, get off your dead asses; and get used to it and show some respect for yourself if nothing else exists that you can brag or complain about!!!!

  • Hugh Cole

    The members of the NAACP and most Americans forget that the NAACP was founded by a group of white Republicans to promote justice for blacks in the USA. The only black member was the secretary who played a minor role in the organization at first. Eventually blacks took over. Today’s NAACP reminds me of a statement made by a famous black civil rights leader Booker T. Washington in about 1911 “There is a class of colored people who make a business of keeping the troubles, the wrongs, and the hardships of the Negro race before the public. Some of these people do not want the Negro to lose his grievances, because they do not want to lose their jobs. There is a certain class of race-problem solvers who don’t want the patient to get well.”

  • http://gunner689 gunner689

    What if we offered every America hating liberal Black, or anyone else for that matter, a one way ticket back to their country of origin and $100,000 seed money to get started ? Along with this would go a permanent banishment from our Nation, That money would go a long way in those impoverished countries. They could set themselves up as the kings and queens they think they deserve to be. How many would take up that offer ? Not too many, I’d bet. Why not ?

  • chuckb


    how many would take up the offer? there would be more than you would care to pay, the only problem is the money would be blown in a short time and they would be sneaking across the border with the rest of the illegals or barry would offer them amnesty. most likely scenario.

    if you stop and think about it, why would they leave this gravy train their on for a meager 100,000.

    • http://gunner689 gunner689

      Exactly my point. thanks. Maybe someday they’ll stop biting the hand that feeds them. My family came over in the early 1700′s as Scotch-Irish indentured servants. I don’t feel anyone owes me a damn thing but I do owe my ancestors my thanks.

  • newspooner

    The real leader fo the real civil rights movement was Rev. J. L. Ward. But he was shunned by the Establishment media because his solution involved individual freedom rather than government racism (euphamistically called “affirmative action”). So the Establishment media anointed Rev. M. L. King as the “official” leader of the civil rights movement because he would not upset the racism of the federal government as oppressed minorities gained more civil rights. Do you remember the racist question on the 2010 Census form? Or have you already forgotten?

  • Mohan Arun

    I never knew of NAACP, for ‘civil liberties’ the first thing that came to my mind is ACLU. Who cares about colored people? Our society already has enough basic ways fit and in place for advancing any type of people. We cannot keep hand-holding and spoon-feeding people just because they are colored. They will have to find their way up by themselves.

  • Bob Wire

    Interesting about “Time” , I never suspected he would be a person of color but why should I? He wasn’t raised inside the “influence” from his accounting.

    Being a Son of the South I’ve always held some respect for the Stars & Bars, I grew up in the shadow of it’s influence and knew little else in my forming years.

    My early years were spent in the final wake of free slaves and plantation life. They were “free” but chose to stay, why shouldn’t they? It was their life, their friend ~ their family. The older and ancient ones stayed on and lived out their lives.

    The plantation life worked for them and my family. And yes, a little hanky panky went on. ~ The results of occasional events produced children much like Time only in this case, killing was out of the question as there was a respect for all life on the plantation. These children actually helped seal the bond of a way of life that was dieing off, left to prolonging the inevitable.

    The Stars & Bars doesn’t represent slavery to me but a southern way of living that came to an end. We were “born” into it and worked to feed and raise and care for everything that grew on the farm.

    There were a host of daily problems to address. We had huge old bulls that were killing the young bulls, had them beat up some bad they could hardly stand, a problems to solve. We had injured and sick to care for, and crops to get in. ~ It took everybody and everyone was important.

    Think about feeding 40 people every time you sit down to eat. That took work and that’s the way it was, ~ a southern life style, where the children, chickens and the pigs seemed to be the only thing walking around loose with little to do.

    I met up with a black man while we were pulling a 30 day hitch together aboard the Sea Witch serving oil interest in the gulf a few years back. We developed a lasting friendship ( the only man that I’ve met aboard ship that could cook better then I could)and he could throw a 3inch line better then I too! ( he was a real A$$hole)

    We talked about the Confederate flag to some length.

    His feeling were the the Stars & Bars is a defeat banner and should not be displayed.

    I have yet to come forward with a good argument to that. Do you know of one?

  • JimH

    We should start the N triple A P. The national association for the advancement of ALL people. No favoritism.

  • http://gunner689 gunner689

    Nathan Bedford Forrest was the greatest fighting general in American history, followed closely by Washington, Patton, and Chesty Puller. All southerners; the South shall rise again !!!


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