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Bid For Gay-Marriage Ballot Measure Rejected By Supreme Court

January 20, 2011 by  

Bid for gay-marriage ballot measure rejected by Supreme CourtOn Jan. 18, the nation's highest court turned down a challenge spearheaded by Bishop Harry Jackson, who requested a measure to be placed on Washington, D.C., ballots that would allow residents to vote on the definition of marriage. According to The Associated Press, the Supreme Court did not comment on its decision.

The lawsuit worked its way up to the high court after D.C.'s Board of Elections ruled that a ballot question regarding the requirements for marriage would authorize discrimination. In 2010, the district began issuing marriage licenses for gay couples, and in 2009 it began recognizing same-sex marriages that had been performed elsewhere.

Massachusetts, New Hampshire, Vermont, Connecticut, Iowa and the District of Columbia allow gay marriages, while New York, New Jersey, Maryland and Rhode Island recognize marriages performed in other jurisdictions.

However, lawmakers are pushing to legalize gay marriage in the Empire State, according to the New York Daily News. State Senator Thomas Duane (D-Manhattan) said that he will introduce legislation to legalize the practice "within weeks," and he will push for a vote by the end of June.

A similar bill was introduced and soundly defeated by the State Senate in 2009, but proponents of equal rights are optimistic that newly-elected Governor Andrew Cuomo, who called for legalization of gay marriage in his State of the State address earlier this month, will help pass the landmark legislation. 

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  • Michael J.

    The Supreme Court denied Bishop Jackson’s request knowing that when put to a vote, Americans everywhere oppose same sex marriages as witnessed by the California vote in 2008. It seems as though today that the perverted request of the few, out weigh the righteous veiws of the many.

    This is just another tentacle of political correctness gone wild.

    People need to first understand and then, JUST SAY NO TO POLITICAL CORRECTNESS!

    • Karolyn

      This has nothing to do with political correctness and everything to do with equality. According to polls, support is growing for same-sex marriage, and I don’t have time to post cites right now.

      • Michael J.

        Karolyn,
        I will post here again the corelation between homosexuality and political correctness.

        I remain concerned to this day, that some do not appreciate the depth and breath of this manufactured 90 year old scourge which seeks to blithe western society.

        The stated goals of “Political Correctness” as prescribed by the desciples of Karl Marx in that dank, dark Socialist think tank known as The Frankfurt School in 1920′s Germany were and are as such:

        1. The creation of racial tension
        2. Continual change to create confusion
        3. The teaching of sex and homosexuality to children
        4. The undermining of schools’ and teachers’ authority
        5. Huge immigration to destroy sovereign identity.
        6. The promotion of excessive consumption of drugs and alcohol
        7. Emptying of churches through persistent critisism of church values and symbols
        8. An unreliable legal system with bias against victims of crime
        9. Dependency on the state and state entitlements
        10. Control and dumbing down of media
        11. Encouraging the breakdown of the family

        One of the main ideas of the Frankfurt School was to exploit Freud’s idea of ‘pansexualism’ – the search for pleasure, the exploitation of the differences between the sexes, the overthrowing of traditional relationships between men and women. To further their aims they would:

        • attack the authority of the father, deny the specific roles of father and mother, and wrestle away from families their rights as primary educators of their children.
        • abolish differences in the education of boys and girls
        • abolish all forms of male dominance – hence the presence of women and gays in the armed forces
        • declare women and minorities to be an ‘oppressed class’ and white men as ‘oppressors’

        Faculty member Munzenberg summed up the Frankfurt School’s long-term operation thus: ‘We will make the West so corrupt that it stinks.’

        Any of this sounding familiar yet? The parellels with our present day society are mind boggling.

        In the 1930′s the Frankfurt School Communist became too radical even for Hitler who banished them into exile. The group landed in of all places, Columbia University, New York where they set up shop until after the war in Europe was over. Before they moved back to Germany in the 1950′s they managed to create in their own image and likenees a few people whose names have recently become significant such as Saul Alinsky and Cloward & Piven whose plans for Progressive Marxism were obviously cast from the original set of goals prescribed by the original Frankfurt School scholars.

        Here is a video that explains in detail the origins and goals of “Political Correctness”
        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qyu-9-OhHog

        Karolyn, search for yourself: Origins of Political Correctness

        • kate8

          Michael J. – Excellent post. Another great example of how communists have twisted and contorted people’s thinking in the name of “equality”. Who doesn’t want that?

          Of course, it never is about equality. It’s about silencing and intimidating, and breaking down societal structures in order to demoralize and control.

          In the first place, the sacrament of marriage is religious institution, and was never meant to fall under government control. Government took jurisdiction over it in order to claim the children and require that they be registered by the State.

          Here we have another case of church/state collusion. (Where are the advocates of separation here?) Of course, now the State has taken over fully, and church is irrelevant, as always happens to a mere mistress. And also as always, when government gets control, the rules are what government says they are.

          • Michael J.

            kate8,
            Thanks, sounds like you get it.

          • Robert Smith

            kate8 posts: “Of course, it never is about equality. It’s about silencing and intimidating, and breaking down societal structures in order to demoralize and control.”

            What difference does it make to you if gays are allowed to marry? What change will it make in your life? Have you done such a poor job of bringing up your kids that one of them may want to marry the German Sheppard next door?

            Really… What impact do gays have on your life?

            Rob

          • Robert Smith

            Note how the question of just how their lives are impacted just doesn’t seem to get answered.

            That’s because there is NO impact on anyone’s life but the couples who are married.

            If their “belief” in the word of their god was strong enough they wouldn’t be so afraid of gays getting married because their “belief” would protect them even more from gays having an impact.

            But, they are weak and need hateful “laws” to keep their “faith.” I simply see those who are so hateful as cowards.

            Rob

        • eddie47d

          Michael J.; Since Hitler rejected this Frankfurt schools thinking then it all must be good since he was such an evil man. Then that too would prove that Obama is no Hitler; that you are always trying to compare with. Then again I doubt if anyone back then even thought much about gay marriage so it is all irrelevant. You seem to be trying to lay the ground work with more false comparisons and encouraging discrimination.

          • Michael J.

            eddie47d,
            Hitler did not see eye to eye with the communist/socialist at The Frankfurt School for the same reason Hitler didn’t see eye to eye with Stalin. Though all three entities being discussed here were/are of the socialist/communist persuasion, each had/has different ideas as to how to bring their ideal utopia to fruition, thus conflict insued.

            As for the corelation between homosexuality and political correctness, the introduction and exceptance of homosexuality aimed at children has evolved some nine decades later into their present struggle to enact same sex marriage today. The current actions being taken are just the lastest slide on the slippery slope.

            You see, the disciples of Marx who were vetrans of the unsucessful communist revolution which was supposed to catch like wildfire to envelope all of Europe changed tactics. Since open, violent revolution did not work they decided to employ the slower generational concept of social evolution wherin socialist tactics would be deployed in baby steps over decades with the same end results remaining their goals.

            Starting to sound familiar yet?

            The misconception by all minorities seemingly empowered by political correctness do not realize that they are being used by the communist elite that head up the NWO. The same small group of elites who financed the Russian Revolution at the beginning of the twentieth century and then sentenced the radicals who they reffered to as “Useful Idiots” and who helped make it possible, to death or the Gulags. It seems as though when true communism is acheived the last thing the elites want or need is a bunch of radicals that suddenly realize that they won’t be allowed to share in the utopia.

            The tactics I speak of are not speculation or fabrications on my part, but instead are tried and true techniques employed world wide by communist for almost a hundred years now.

            Here’s a good source for you:
            http://thy-weapon-of-war.blogspot.com/2010/08/kgb-defector-yuri-bezmenov-explains.html

          • independant thinker

            Hitler would have invaded Russia even if Hitler had been a devout communist because he number one espoused the belief in the superiority of the Aryan race and two Hitler wanted to be the supreme ruler of Europe if not the whole world.

        • Granny Mae

          Michael J.

          Excellant post ! Thanks. Granny

          • eddie47d

            Way too much lopsided swill for me. All assumptions with little value. Hitler arrested Homosexuals and put them in camps so Michaels “theory” reeks.

          • Michael J.

            eddie47d,
            Not theory, documented facts.
            Hitler used the minorities including jews and homosexuals much the same as was done in Russia and now here in this country before silently condemming them to experimentation, forced labor and his “Final Solution” which was extermination by various means.

            See any parellels yet?

        • http://naver sook young

          Good job Michael. “We The People” don’t want their way of life forced on us. Thank you for telling so much facts about Hitler and the Frankfurt School. I hope this nation gets back on the right track soon. Thank you.

          Sook Young
          Wife of the Samurai

          • Robert Smith

            Hey sook, I guess you would vote to bring slavery for blacks back. After all, if your “majority” wants it it would be OK, right?

            The FACT is that the Constitution is in place to PROTECT minorities. It is there to assure equality for ALL Americans.

            Your bigotry agains gays and the other red meat issues is just to distract from the horrors of our economn that was driven into the tank during the last administration.

            Rob

          • Larry

            “We The People” includes everyone. What has been forced upon you personally? Please make a list of 5 things.
            Thank you

          • Robert Smith

            5 things…

            Well, first I’m not gay but I can easily come up with 5 things where gays aren’t treated equally.

            How sad is it that at a hospital if the gay couple isn’t married the family can keep a partner out?

            Same sex couples aren’t treated the same in federal income tax issues. No deductable for a partner.

            Social Security isn’t allowed for a surviving gay partner.

            Military benefits like medical aren’t alloed for a gay partner.

            Homosexual, bisexual and transgender employees of the federal government can’t even treat their partners like a dog. That’s because under the Federal Employees Health Benefits Program, a worker has the option of buying health coverage for their canine companion, but not for a domestic partner, thanks to the Defense of Marriage Act that banned gay marriage in 1996.

            Rob

        • Robert Smith

          You forgot one small detail…

          Germany LOST. It FAILED as a state.

          Rob

          • MaryofAz

            Enough “gay education” already. I am so sick of the gay issue constantly being interjected into everything. Do I hate gays? Of course not, but this hyper-fixation on everyone’s sexuality is nauseating. I have watched this gay pride pervade into society for decades, attempting to make homosexuality normal. Well, it’s not. But what you do with your body is not only none of my business but I would really rather not ever hear about it anyway. A civil contract or something binding to protect the surviving partner just doesn’t seem to be enough of a compromise for the homosexuals. Nope, they want it all and they will kick and scream loud enough and call people names long enough until everyone is so thoroughly sick of it they give in. The right or wrong of this seems to be irrelevant in our now secular society, it is just who is louder. The “your rights end at the tip of my nose” is no longer true in this marxist secular society.

          • Robert Smith

            Equality isn’t a “compramise.”

            Either folks are equal or they aren’t.

            It’s that simple.

            BTW, lots of christian churches do perform gay marriages in states wehre it is allowed.

            Rob

      • http://naver samurai

        Karolyn, your polls are lying through their teeth. Second, tell me what rights under the Constitution have been taken from them? None! They just want the money and status that comes with marriage. The Defense of Marriage Act is the law of the land and will forever be that way. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

        • Robert Smith

          What’s wrong with equality samurai? You got yours and that’s the end of the trail. Nobody else gets equality.

          Shame on you.

          Rob

          • http://?? Joe H.

            Robert,
            Name one right they don’t have that I do?

          • Bill

            Rob,

            Why don’t you get a clue. Homosexuals are already equally protected under the Constitution. What they want is to have separate protections as a result of their sexual perversion. It isn’t going to happen Bucco! society will destroy itself before it legitimizes this pathological lifestyle. Yea, I know more homophobic ranting.You betcha!

          • Robert Smith

            “Name one right they don’t have that I do?”

            Same sex couples can’t file federal taxes jointly.

            Same sex couples can have a spouse banned from a hospital environment if the famly of the sick or injured party doesn’t want them there, no matter how much the patient may want to see their parther.

            Same sex couples can’t get the “family” discounts at a local swimming pool, ice scating rink, and other family venues where a group discount is offered.

            Same sex couples can’t generally (except in states were same sex marriage is legal) simply marry and have all the blessings of that institution with the one sheet of paper. They need to go to a lawyer and have contracts, etc. for each circumstance that may come up.

            Rob

          • Robert Smith

            Joe asks about rights that he has that gays don’t have.

            He wants just one.

            If a gay partner dies, no matter how much they loved each other, they are unable to stop a family from taking everything when it comes to inheritance if there wasn’t a marriage.

            Certainly one can make contracts for the bazillion circumstances that may come up, but that costs money. A marriage contract from the state covers it all for just a few bucks.

            Rob

        • Larry

          (offensive comment removed)

    • Kinetic1

      The vote in California was heavily influenced by outside sources who pumped in Millions of dollars to spread lies about the potential effects of the law. Polls showed growing support for same sex marriage in California within only weeks of the election. If the vote were held today, it would likely turn out differently than last time.

      It’s time that those of you who oppose same sex marriage for religious reasons stop trying to force your beliefs on everyone else. The government is not going to force your church to accept gay marriage.

      • Michael J.

        Kenetic1,
        Boulderdash! Same sex marriage in California was voted down because of all the blacks who had never voted before were herded to the polls to vote for Obama. The left never took into consideration the primarily conservative veiwpoint of blacks when it comes to homosexuality, who as a block voted against it.

        • Kinetic1

          Yes, the African American community, as well as the Hispanics did have a negative effect, but that does not diminish the effects of those adds run by outside interests. In many cases those adds were designed to reinforce long held distorted beliefs in those communities.

      • Papa

        If it’s a “religious” matter, which you object to, then simply ignore the entire “marriage” thing and campaign for change in your State Laws to reflect your “non-religious” point of view. To the best of my knowledge none of our 50 States require you to be “married” to live together, and a one page legal document, probably costing less than a marriage license, would take care of all other issues.

        Problem solved…

        • Kinetic1

          Papa,
          Since the government uses the term marriage, allowing gays to have only “civil unions” would be like the “separate but equal” argument during the civil rights era. As I said in another post, if I had it my way ALL marriages would be civil unions in the eyes of the government, and the marriage ceremony would be strictly a religious matter. Those churches that want to perform same sex marriages would, and those that didn’t would not. It would take care of a lot of issues, but I doubt the Christian fundamentalists would let it go at that.

        • Robert Smith

          Hey Papa!

          Separate but equal DOES NOT WORK. That was proven years ago when it was tried with blacks.

          Why don’t we just go with one contract from the government and if you want to be “married” go to your church.

          Rob

      • crystal

        Incorrect! Those in favor of homosexual marriage raised millions more than those against. It was the second time homosexual marriage was voted against in California.

        • Kinetic1

          crystal,
          I didn’t say that one side raised more than another, only that millions of dollars poured in from out of state groups (like the Mormon Church) who are opposed to same sex marriage in ANY state. They ran adds full of lies and distortions about what allowing same sex marriage would do to society. Yes, gay rights groups ran their own adds as well, but I don’t recall even one that stooped to the distortions presented in the name of Christianity.

          • http://naver samurai

            Gays are a distorted lifestyle. Read Leviticus 20:13 and Romans 1:26 – 28. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

          • Robert Smith

            Hey samurai, Had any cheeseburgers lately? Why don’t you go picket McDonald’s. After all they are trampling all over your crappy Leviticus.

            BTW, I don’t believe in any of your bible.

            For Goddess and America.

            Rob

          • Curtis

            This is an old email specifically re-written for the Samurai…

            Dear Samurai:

            Thank you for doing so much to educate people regarding God’s Law. I have learned a great deal from your posts, and try to share that knowledge with as many people as I can. When someone tries to defend the homosexual lifestyle, for example, I simply remind them that Leviticus 18:22 clearly states it to be an abomination. End of debate.

            I do need some advice from you, however, regarding some of the other specific laws and how to follow them.

            1). When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates a pleasing odor for the Lord (Lev. 1:9). The problem is my neighbors. They claim the odor is not pleasing to them. Should I smite them?

            2). I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as sanctioned in Exodus 21:7. In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair price for her?

            3). I know that I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is in her period of menstrual cleanliness (Lev. 15:19-24). The problem is, how do I tell? I have tried asking, but most women take offence.

            4). Leviticus 25:44 states that I may indeed possess slaves, both male and female, provided they are purchased from neighboring nations. A friend of mine claims that this applies to Mexicans, but not to Canadians. Can you clarify? Why can’t I own Canadians?

            5). I have a neighbor who insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2 clearly states that he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill him myself?

            6). A friend of mine feels that even though eating shellfish is a abomination of Leviticus 11:10, it is a lesser abomination than homosexuality. I don’t agree. Can you settle this?

            7). Leviticus 21:20 states that I may not approach the altar of God if I have a defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear reading glasses. Does my vision have to be 20/20, or is there some wiggle room here?

            8). Most of my male friends get their hair trimmed, including the hair around their temples, even though this is expressly forbidden by Leviticus 19:27. How should they die?

            9). I know from Leviticus 11:6-8 that touching the skin of a dead pig makes me unclean, but may I still play football if I wear gloves?

            10). My uncle has a farm. He violates Leviticus 19:19 by planting two different crops in the same field, as does his wife by wearing garments made of two different kinds of thread (cotton/polyester blend). He also tends to curse and blaspheme a lot. Is it really necessary that we go to all the trouble of getting the whole town together to stone them? (Lev. 24:10-16). Couldn’t we just burn them to death at a private family affair like we do with people who sleep with their in-laws? (Lev. 20:14).

            I know you have studied these things extensively, so I am confident you can help. Thank you again for reminding us that God’s word is eternal and unchanging.

            Your devoted disciple and adoring fan,
            Curtis.

          • Robert Smith

            The term “cafiteria christian” comes to mind.

            That way they can use just what they want to support their own personal hate agenda.

            I still faile to understand why they don’t picket Micky D’s though. They are really flaunting that cheeseburger thing. Think I’ll get a couple on the way home. It’s a good cheap dinner.

            Rob

    • http://www.aaperry.com Glenn

      The issue of gay marriage should be about public health and morality. Anal sex is a disease vector that causes untold problems related to the ingestion of fecal matter through the permeable membrane of the penis. Marriage is and has always been a way of sanctioning appropriate sexual practices for the preservation of the community. The implicit moral endoresement of anal sex via gay marriage will open the back door, as it were, to increasing experimentation and spread of this practice amongst youth, the consequences of which will be destructive to the overall public health.

      • Michael J.

        Glenn,
        Agreed, yet this ghastly perversion is being portrayed as being as holsum as Mom’s apple pie to our children.

        • eddie47d

          Drinking is accepted and presented as wholesome as mom’s apple pie. Although it does damage with the morality and health issues this country faces. That could be said about alot of things. I believe the majority of adult Americans drink and some are very responsible.Should we ban drinking because of a few bad players? Gays are fewer than 5% of population yet some of you talk like they have this amazing power over you. Let them live their lives and you go and live yours. They should encourage individual responsibility amongst themselves just like drinkers or smokers or Mormons for that matter.

          • Michael J.

            eddie47d,
            First of all drinking is not a sexual perversion. And drinking is not being presented to school children as acceptable behaviour.

            And if what you say is true, why is it that the perverted lifestyle of 5% of the population is being thrust upon the entire country against our will?

          • eddie47d

            Maybe it’s your perversions which are being thrust upon the rest of us. It’s easy to down grade others while playing the pious game.Then again I don’t know you but you seems to make a lot of assumptions about others (gays as an example).

          • http://naver samurai

            “The cornerstone of America is the family.” Ronald Reagan. The family includes a mother, father, and kids, not father, father or mother, mother. This kind of lifestyle breaks down family standards, morals, and traditions.

            “As goes the family, so goes the Empire.” Augustus Ceasar. Even back in the days of Rome Ceasar knew that if immoral lifestyles were allowed to fester, the Empire would fall apart from the inside. We are also starting to see this in our country now, not just from the libs either. Other groups (NOW, NARAL, Planned Parenthood, gays, etc) are jumping on the band wagon to dismantle this country, brick by brick, from what we were founded on. Let’s keep up the good fight, fellow patriots! FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

          • Robert Smith

            Samurai, Rome lasted 800 years.

            Followed by the christian dark ages.

            Rob

        • Robert Smith

          Awwwwwww Michael says: “… yet this ghastly perversion is being portrayed as being as holsum as Mom’s apple pie to our children.”

          “perversion” in your eyes. The same was said about blacks and whites marrying.

          Why are you so interested in the sex life of another other than your spouse? I see that as perverted. It ain’t none of your business.

          Rob

          • Michael J.

            Robert Smith,
            I say again, Homosexuals have in mind to proslytize innocent children into a ghastly lifestyle of sexual depravity. Click on the link below for the shocking details.

            http://www.massresistance.org/docs/issues/black_book/black_book_inside.html

            And you say you aren’t gay but Wiccan ritual sex ceromonies are reportedly gender indescriminate with warm flesh being the only prerequesite.

            Another thing, you make a lot of comments about religion, while I have made none. So here’s one for you…

            Concerning Wicca, ancient peoples who used to practice it would not recognize what you and yours have done to it just as justification for living a perverse lifestyle of sex, drugs and rock-n-roll in a most decadent manner that would make Charles Manson puke.

            Maybe you should share with the people here your experience and beliefs on Wiccan ritual spells cast upon individuals with whom you dislike, or maybe tell us about ritual sacrifice of children. If you care not to share, I can post current examples of Wiccan Witchcraft handiwork for you, as they are plentiful on the internet.

            The rest of us sane people can only hope that the authorities catch wind of you soon before you hurt people. They were too late to catch Loughner before he did harm, hopefully they monitor this site.

          • Robert Smith

            Your claims about Wicca are totally false.

            BTW, I am not Wiccan.

            And, the transsubstation is still real about the canabalism from many christians.

            If anyone wants an overview of contemporary Wicca (witchcraft) you can go to: http://www.witchvox.com

            Meanwhile, lies about Wicca don’t change the inquisition or crusades.

            For the inquisition you can look up the Maleus Malificarum by a couple of monks, Springer and Kramer. Just google it and there are many copies of it on line.

            Rob

          • Robert Smith

            Shucks, I should be direct if I’m asked: “Maybe you should share with the people here your experience and beliefs on Wiccan ritual spells cast upon individuals with whom you dislike,”

            Although I am not Wiccan I have been around many, just as I’ve been around many christians, Jews, and a bundle of other religions. I have even attended Amish services in Lancaster County, PA.

            Wicca is an earth based religion. They have what they call the “Three Fold Law” which says that what they put out about others comes back to them three times. Obviously if you wish ill upon anotehr it comes back to you three times.

            “Casting spells” is very similar to prayer. It is a led group think, just as a minister leading the congigration if prayer, or an individual prayer. Even atheists can pray just for that purpose. They just don’t call it that. At its base it is a way to clarify and organize thoughts.

            “maybe tell us about ritual sacrifice of children.”

            There is no sacrifice. In fact if there is any abuse it is immediately reported. Many of the participents are social workers, and teachers. They are manditory reporters in many states. The Wiccan community is an extremely healthy and friendly environment for bringing kids up. There is pretty much no hate. They aren’t threatened with fire and brimstine to keep them in line.

            It really is an outstanding environment compared to the organized efforts to cover up for pedophiles in the catholic church.

            Rob

      • Robert Smith

        Awwwww Glenn… Why are you so hung up on just gays? In fact heterosexuals engage in all kinds of sex too. Because the gay scene is much smaller there are far more heterosexual couples doing things you don’t like than gays.

        BTW, do you have any references to the “hazzard?” I’ve never heard of it before.

        Rob

  • Disgusted

    Public voting should be the way to go. For the court to deny us the right to vote on a subject such as this is proof to me that they think they know better than we do what is right for us. Marriage should be between a Man and a Woman. Marriage between two Men and/or a marraige between to Women is wrong!

    Let the people vote and decide.

    • James

      Disgusted, I don’t know the details yet, but if the Supreme Court just denied a writ of certiorari, that doesn’t mean they approve or disapprove of the writ, they just denied to hear it at at time.

    • Robert Smith

      Sure thing disgusted: “Public voting should be the way to go.”

      Sure thing… Vote slavery back, take the vote away from women, put blacks back in their place…

      Our forfathers gave us the courts to correct the wrongs of the alleged majority.

      Rob

  • TIME

    Look I have never said much about Gays I know many of them, in my biz there are many thats the facts. But just as anything else this is nothing more than a “ploy to distract and divide.” from all that is going on such as a $14.5 trillon dollar debt, The power grabbing of Executive powers etc.. its being used a tool by the Elite’s to control you.

    Its obvious that strong feelings are going to be on both sides of this issue, and therfor its being played like a well tuned Les Paul though a twin Plexie stack.

    Folks there are people who like the same sex, its been going on since time began, so as long as we all respect each others RIGHTS, then whats the problem? Just let this all slide its overall effects are NOTHING when you look at the big picture.

    Its all the PC Crap on a stick that is the divide that is being used like a wip to prod you into submission to act as a good little sheep.

    EWE wake UP!

    • Les

      The idea that intelligent folks would argue this PC nonsense is what is surprising; but anything to stir class warfare and divide the sheeple. In our local election I met with a group of gays that wanted the ear of my conservative candidate. They wanted to be left alone and stop being the PC ping pong of these leftist fools. Poop shoot sex has been around for a long time without voter approval or having the court revise the dictionary (and history). These trolls will want to repeal the law of gravity next.

      • Robert Smith

        Gravity does not exist. Earth sucks.

        Rob

        • http://?? Joe H.

          Robert,
          Good! Then fly away little boy!!!

          • Larry

            Could you fly away first so we know how it’s done? Thanks!

  • jimmy joe

    Understanding political correctness means that liberalism,or lawlessness,is superior to Humanity,God,equality,and justice for all.And law.Just as Sharia’ law islam means their beliefs,are superior,to all other beliefs.Both believe any that dis-agrees,do not have the right to exist.And any that are deemed Inconvienient,or an obstacle to their lives,or agenda.even if they created the circumstance,or problem.must be destroyed,or someone else must suffer the consequences of their actions,never are they to be held responsible for anything,as long as they are faithful to their religions.liberalism,under political correct laws.and Islam,Under sharia’law.Both are rooted in satanism.And lucifer’s war against god.To exalt his will,Free will.”With freedom comes responsibility”and kingdom above god,gods law,gods creation(humanity)Liberalism,Political correctness,Portrays Itself as a political party.But is an elitist,godless,lawless,Satanic cult.Demonically possessed,And death,and destruction obsessed.The same with Sharia’law islam,Portrays itself a holy religion.Religions do not murder those that just dis agree With their religion.Only totalitarian dictatorial cults do that.Religions that are holy.defend the Innocent,vunerable,and defenseless,against society predators.who are those who believe they are above god,Humanity,Human life,liberty,Rights,and law.Which is why our founders declared “We are endowed by our creator”And not corrupt,lawless men,women,and governments.That is what liberals want removed from,our founding documents.Because it is the last necessary move.For liberals to destroy america,Life,Liberty,And humanity.The only thing that stands between satans deciples.Which Is Liberalism,Socialism,Anti-Capitalist Environmentalist,Big Labor Unions,Marxist communism,Secular humanism,And Sharia Law Islam.Now united as partners,againt america,Israel,And Jesus Christ.Making america and israel subservient to our enemies,In order build satans kingdom.”The New world Order”Jimmy Joe”The Liarfryer”

    • unreligious

      Don’t you feel it’s a contradiction to be complaining about sharia law in one breath and demanding we follow your God’s law in another.

      • Bitter Libertarian

        BINGO! And which religion does the STATE adopt! wait..back before the American revolution King George had a State religion..that worked well didnt it!!

    • eddie47d

      If Jimmie Joe is the liar fryer then who is going to fry you Jimmie over your potpourri of nonsense.

    • Robert Smith

      From jimmy: “And law.Just as Sharia’ law islam means their beliefs,are superior,to all other beliefs.”

      Isn’t one of those big ten commandments the right keeps trying to force on the rest of us related to “no other god before me”?

      Seems that the right wing version of christanity sure has a lot in common with sharia’.

      Rob

  • home boy

    i was just wondering if anybody cared to know what GODS ruling on this matter is? read 1corinthians 6;9-10. it doesn’t supprise me that there are only 5 comments to this aticle. people just don’t have a comment on this matter until it is in their back yard. man ignores GOD so all things will benefit them. however man is in for a rude awakening very soon now just like sodom and gomorrah . stay tuned

    • Bitter Libertarian

      I know what Gods Ruling on this is. Personally I love God and do not Approve of a religious ceremony marrying the same sex. That said though I do not TRUST Goverments to RULE on MORALITY or RELIGION.

      Keep thgis decision where it belongs…within the People, their communities, and their places of worship.

      • home boy

        if you know GODS ruling then why are you saying man should vote on this when it is against GODS laws. man thinks he has all the answers . wrong. keep your trust in GOD and he will take care of all problems soon. yes you have rights and i agree about the government but they are going to do what they want any way.

        • Bitter Libertarian

          “yes you have rights and i agree about the government but they are going to do what they want any way.”

          So Govt is benign and Holy and can be trusted to do “GODS WORK”?

          I hope you get the point..GOVT is NOT and cannot be trusted to do GODS work or enforce Gods Laws….thats EXACTLY why the Founding fathers wanted the Govt not passing laws in FAVOR/RESPECTING one religious establishment over another.

        • blv54

          let all these God haters that agree with homosexual marriage and all the rest of their perversions have at it, the founders said that our form of government was dependent on a moral people that’s the only way it would work, unfortunately most people today in this country are not moral, I’ll be interested to see them at the judgement that’s coming to us all at the end of time,will you all be as sneering and proud then when your facing the ultimate judge who has the power to put you hell? somehow I think you’ll be singing a different song and it’s coming quicker than you think, better takes Jesus Christ offer of salvation while you still can.

          • Robert Smith

            No thanks blv…

            I don’t want to kneel before such a hateful god.

            I just couldn’t live my life with that much hate.

            I find your version of christanity disgusting.

            Rob

    • Kinetic1

      home boy,
      Last time I checked, God’s law was not the law of our constitution. Sure, we follow some of the basic laws of any civilized people (don’t kill, don’t steal), but we are bound by law to recognize the equality of all, despite the religion of some (even if the “some” is the majority of Americans.) The courts know that, if put to a vote we would not have achieved racial equality when we did, despite the fact that most Americans now know it is right. Some times they just have to force us to accept our own Constitution, despite our prejudices.

      • home boy

        so there you go putting man ahead of GOD. brillant. GOD allows us to have governments because he knew we needed some kind of control to exist. but this has gone to far .

      • Michael J.

        Kenetic1,
        “Some times they just have to force us”

        Beyond pathetic1, you just wiped out your last bit of credibility.

        • kate8

          Kinetic – You are a typical Progressive. If the rest of us don’t see things your way, you must FORCE us to accept it, anyway.

          The Constitution was put in place to constrain government, not the people. They are supposed to serve society, not vice versa. In truth, they have no place in issues such as marriage. Their only function was to keep us safe from foreign invasion, leaving us free to structure our lives as we saw fit.

          What we have, due primarily to people who think like you, is a government run amok, corrupted by the very foreign forces they were put in place to keep out.

          In a free Republic, the minority have a right to exist and to pursue their lives like the rest of us. What they don’t have the right to do is tyrannize the majority and remake society to suit themselves.

          It’s amazing how Progressives have the attitude that, if you get the most votes, you win. If you are in the minority, you still win.

          Either way, it’s still called TYRANNY.

          • Kinetic1

            Kate8,
            Our Constitution requires our government NOT to impose any one religions beliefs on the people. Those Christians who are either fundamentalist or lean towards a literal interpretation of the Bible believe that homosexuality is wrong, therefore same sex marriage is wrong. If the Supreme Court allows the people to vote on the issue, and a majority vote to uphold the beliefs of these Christians, then we have a law that enforces one groups religious beliefs over all others. The Court must choose to enforce the Constitution, even if it is not the will of the people.

            When you say “It’s amazing how Progressives have the attitude that, if you get the most votes, you win. If you are in the minority, you still win.”, you should consider your own attitude. Maybe you’re projecting more than you realize.

          • eddie47d

            Then follow the Constitution Kate;that” all men are created equal”. That includes women,men,gays blacks,midgets and anyone else that is a homo sapien. Now how hard is that to follow? Remember gays want equal rights not special rights. So in reality they should be able to enjoy the privileges of America just like you or me. Some people didn’t even want to build handicap ramps for our disabled and argued that they can fend for themselves. It was rather hard for them to to get a drivers licence ,etc.if they couldn’t even get into a building.Those handicap ramps were a special privilege for them but helped them to become more equal. If we give everyone an equal OPPORTUNITY and equal laws then we all benefit.

          • http://naver samurai

            You made 3 mistakes edduh!

            1. “All men are created equal.” come from the Declaration of Independence.
            2. “All men are created equal.” has nothing to do with race, gays, etc. It means that we are equal in the eyes of God.
            3. You decided to post your lib crap here.

            FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

          • Robert Smith

            kate 8 says: “leaving us free to structure our lives as we saw fit.”

            Unless one is gay… They you are supposed to structure your life as kate sees fit.

            Rob

        • Kinetic1

          Michael J.
          So now we’re going to play parsing games? When the American people refuse to recognize the laws set forth in our Constitution, it is the job of the courts to uphold them. For all the space used up on this site to decry those who fail to recognize our Constitution you would think that people here would understand. You talk about my credibility, how about all the people like yourself who shout about upholding the Constitution, but then fight against it when it doesn’t support their religious views. Grow up, Michael J. You can’t have it both ways.

          • Michael J.

            Kenetic1,
            The courts non-ruling in this matter is in effect a ruling agaisnt hetrosexuals rights not to be forced to raise families in an atmosphere filled with perverse homosexual lifestyles flaunted by media, academia and the courts falsely benevolent portrayal, what is more like a Biblical plague silently falling from the sky like infected snow flakes with a further potential resulting from second hand poke to spread HIV and a whole host of other insideous diseases not yet named.

          • Kinetic1

            Michael J,
            You might as well have replaced Homosexual with Negro.

            “The courts non-ruling in this matter is in effect a ruling against WHITE’S rights not to be forced to raise families in an atmosphere filled with perverse NEGRO lifestyles”

            Sounds familiar, doesn’t it? AIDs is not a problem exclusive to the homosexual population. And even if it were, you don’t get AIDs from living in the same neighborhood.

            With regards to their “perverse” lifestyle, stop looking in their windows. I can tell you about a heterosexual couple who had half their basement tiled and plumbed to be a common shower and bath for up to a dozen or more people. I don’t care to even imagine what went on down there, but I’m not going to try and pass laws to stop them. You might not want to know about some of your own neighbors either, but what they do in their own home is none of our business, so long as it doesn’t involve us.

          • eddie47d

            The Bible does not say to discriminate against homosexuals. God also created them in his image along with short people and tall people and a wide variety of colors. Maybe God had a sense of humor and wanted humans to be challenged? Since we are all unique and no one is the same it’s best to be more accepting of those difference.

          • Michael J.

            Kinetic1,
            Sorry if a dose of reality has left you with no place to hide.
            Your back must really be against the wall to bring out the liberal trump card, RACISM. When all else fails you can always call em RACIST, right?

            You must be running low on ammunition. OOOOPSS! sorry, hope that doesn’t incite you to have a Loughner moment. Oh, and look below, now you’ve even got your lap dog eddie snapping at my heels. I guess bringing out the race card did not incite him either.

          • Kinetic1

            Michael J,
            Oh how you folks love to call RACE CARD! RACE CARD! It’s not a matter of calling you a racist (which I did not) but pointing out the similarity between the argument we are having about homosexuals today and the argument about African Americans we were having in the 60s. Your statement about being “forced to raise families in an atmosphere filled with perverse homosexual lifestyles” could have been lifted from the op ed pages 50 or 60 years ago. It’s a fair comparison, despite your efforts to marginalize and distract by yelling RACE CARD! Go ahead, I can take it. The real question is, can you defend yourself without resorting to these games?

          • http://naver samurai

            But the Bible does say that it is immoral and is punishable by fire and brimstone(gays). FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

          • Michael J.

            Kenetic1,
            Clutching at straws are we? Comparing gay rights with civil rights is a well worn ploy which has already been debated from A – to – Z, but I’ll be glad to review for you.

            You see, sexual orientation is different than race. Obviously, race is something that one is born with, while sexual orientation is probably some nature/nurture mix. The truth is not yet known, but there does exist a wide array of dubious speculation. Some argue that while race is innate and non-mutable, sexual orientation is a mere behavior or “proclivity” (and therefore, unlike race, it is something that one can change).

            Second item up for bid is the fact that race based civil equality does not seek condonement for perverse sex acts or the proselytizing of innocent children into the same perverse lifestyle through adoption.

            These thoughts and ideas are not that of The Lone Ranger, but are instead the widely held beliefs of the rational minded masses. Better pack a lunch, or maybe two if you plan on persuading folks otherwise.

          • Kinetic1

            Michael J.
            “…or the proselytizing of innocent children into the same perverse lifestyle through adoption.”
            And here we go again. This insane argument that gays, unable to procreate must boost their numbers by recruiting children. Michael, Gays are not a dying civilization struggling to continue their ways. They are not an organized religion working together to take over the nation. They are less than 7% of our population, a minority being pushed down by the “normal” masses. They are, by and large just trying to live a simple life, though folks like you seem to believe they are a thundering heard ready to trample over your godly life. There is absolutely no proof of your claims, aside from those “facts” presented by the perverted ranks of the “Christian” community.

          • Robert Smith

            Michael says: “sexual orientation is a mere behavior or “proclivity” (and therefore, unlike race, it is something that one can change).”

            Really… I’ll bet someone whould have to hold a gun to one of your offspring to get YOU to do something someone of your sex.

            It isn’t a “choice” like you so glibly put it. They don’t have any more choice than you do.

            That is unless as has been theorized that come closet gays pick up the “anti” gay stance just to “protect” themselves.

            Rob

    • unreligious

      Actually we do not know what “God’s law” is. We only know what mistranslations of bronze age Jewish tests supposedly say on the matter. The problem is people like you feel that these man made texts are God’s laws and that we should therefore be forced to abide by them. Religious people like you, all feel that everyone should have to live under the rules of their religion. There is nothing that makes your myths superior to those of any other religions myths. Just because a religious group says that they are the chosen people or their religion is the truth, the way, the true faith, the path or any other such thing does not make it so. You have the right to practice what ever faith and live your life by it’s tenets, you do not have the right to force others to do so.

      • Kim

        First of all, a Christian can not win over anyone without love, niether should they tell someone else how to live. Their lives are supposed to be different from the world. No they should not embrace anything considered wrong in Biblical teachings, and the Jews have their on laws. And to you none believers, the Bible may not make sense, but our laws do come from the Jewish and Christian Bible, and without them you would have a lawless country. People are different in many ways, always have been and always will be, but if you none believers actually would study all of the Bible you would find that the prophecy is correct and very accurate. If you don’t believe me just read about how the Jew and the Christian will be hated by people like you. The Christian is supposed to hate the sin not the sinner. You see God gave people the freedom of choice, so just choose, life or death. Now as far as marriage, that is one man and one woman. If the gays want a legal contract let it be up to each state, with no clergy having to perform ceremonies, or a judge if it is against his belief, because that steps on the toes of religion. Even nature does not support men with men or woman with woman because there would be no survival of the human race. As far as the federal government, they pass laws to protect the rights of a group of people at the expense of the rights others, but that is what it takes, the good with the bad. I remember when the blacks could not eat in a resturant, had to have different drinking fountains and waiting rooms, and had to be out of city limits or across the tracks before dark, and it was the same with the Indians in states where there are reservations. So I would say live and let live, protect each others rights with laws, quit trying to stop christian rights or Jewish rights or unbelievers rights. You know Islamics get to have their call to prayer where ever they are regaurdless of who is around, is that right, when the world don’t want christians or Jews to pray in public, think about it.

        • Kinetic1

          Who says Christians can’t pray in public? Pick a corner and say a prayer. Find a park bench and gather to read the Bible. I’ve lead junior high church groups and we never worried about anyone telling us we couldn’t talk about our religion in public.

          I’ll skip most of the rest of your argument and get right to the meat; our laws are NOT based on Christianity. The evidence is everywhere if you care to look. Take, for instance the Treaty of Tripoli. This document, written by a former chaplain under George Washington was accepted by President Adams and approved by the Senate in 1797. Article 11 states “As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion…”. This was just 20 years after the Declaration of Independence. Do you think they forgot what their Constitution was based on? Most of our laws are based on the concept of “common law”, which many Christian leader believe proves a basis in Christianity, but which Thomas Jefferson spoke in his letter to Thomas Cooper on February 10, 1814:

          “For we know that the common law is that system of law which was introduced by the Saxons on their settlement in England, and altered from time to time by proper legislative authority from that time to the date of Magna Charta, which terminates the period of the common law. . . This settlement took place about the middle of the fifth century. But Christianity was not introduced till the seventh century; the conversion of the first christian king of the Heptarchy having taken place about the year 598, and that of the last about 686. Here then, was a space of two hundred years, during which the common law was in existence, and Christianity no part of it.”

          I understand that most of our founding fathers and those who followed them were Christian. I also know that there were great conflicts between the different Christian sects in each of the colonies and states, leading the founders to commit to the idea of a government separate from all religions. My argument for not allowing religion to dictate our laws has nothing to do with my personal religious beliefs, or whether or not they differ from yours, but in the principle of separation committed to by our founders. I have no desire to force you to accept same sex marriage in your home or your church, as that would infringe on your religious freedom. I do, however insist that neither you, nor I have the right to prevent others from joining in marriage if their church accepts this concept, or from receiving the legal rights given to others who are legally joined. There will, of course be protections for the innocents (children, animals, etc.) and against coercion, and for the health of our citizenry (siblings and such,) but aside from your religious objections, I see no reason why our government should restrict two consenting adults from joining.

        • Robert Smith

          Kim says: “and without them [bible laws] you would have a lawless country.

          BZzzzzzzz, patently false.

          You slept through the “social contract” part of class, didn’t you.

          Rome had lots of laws without your bible. They lasted 800 years only to be replaced by the dark ages. Seems the christian bible didn’t help much there.

          And then there was the “morality” of the inquisitions. How’s your copy of the Maleus Malificarum?

          Rob

  • Bitter Libertarian

    One part of the problem as I see it is that marriage has a religious definition, and there is also a Technical definition that is used regarding the assembly of parts, or inanimate objects. The other part is that the state/govt is involved mucking things up as usual.

    One problem is that the Gays want to be allowed to be married, which the states has no business deciding they can or cant, but because the state owns the “laws” they are involved in the legality of property, benifits, and suits to settel claims.

    Now Agree with it or not, as an air breathing Human being they have a right to be with whoever they want. If they want “Marriage” for the legal issues, then one solution is for the state to allow which ever Insurance company would provide insurance/benefits under the “same roof” principal. That would solve that problem and create a free market for competition. Its actually in the Insurance industry’s interest to conduct business with whomever because it will expand their business. The Insurance industry can define the situation as it sees fit, EXCEPT where the state is involved and THATS the problem.

    If Marriage is strictly a religious ceremony (which its clearly not) then the issue is cut & dry. Since its not, then thats where it gets complicated. Not saying I agree with same sex marriage I just dont believe that the Govt (Which Geroge Washington clearly defined as FORCE) should be involved in how people live their lives. Allowing any Govt to decide morality is DANGEROUS because all it takes, (as we all have seen) is a change in Govt to change that morality on those who thought they were being moral!
    NO INVOLVEMENT is better then WRONG involvement.

  • Harold

    The communist ‘manefesto’ calls for undermining the morals of a nation. there is nothing sicker than a man and man or a woman and woman wanting to marry. It defies all reaso, it is has nothing to do with ‘beieng born’ that way. It is a choice and it is perversion.

    • Kinetic1

      Harold,
      “It is a choice and it is perversion” in your own limited, and likely unprofessional opinion. I have no desire to be with another man, but some of the most dedicated couples I know are gay. I only wish more heterosexual couples were so committed. Love is blind. Just look around you.

      • home boy

        part of it is a choice but for most it is psychological disorder from what i have read and yes it can be generic. i had a friend growing up who have some female tendencies but we ignored them since he like girls . his father was the same way. not until he got married had a baby then got divorced did we know. next thing i new he was dating men. i still respect him but i know what he is doing defies GODS laws and thats more impotant to me then what man thinks is right. man has had 6000 years since adam and eve to get it right and they can’t. why? because man is not perfect and cannot live without GOD.

        • home boy

          yes i am not a professional psyh thats why i study the bible and let GOD show me the way not man read your bible and you will learn the truth.

          • Bitter Libertarian

            home boy, If what you want is someone like a Big Powerful Govt LAW to “squash the homo bug” I think GOD might have something to say about that…. Trust in God, NOT Govt.

            I agree that there is an evil force pushing this stuff out into the open and into our lives using the weak and faithless Communists, but not for good, simply as said, to divide us.

            What if you ignored them and their need to be given special rights?
            What if You Trusted God to deal with them? Do you FEAR HOMO’s more then you trust in your GOD?
            How about if the gays were just pawns in Satans evil plan to create hate & discontent and here you are playing RIGHT INTO SATANS plan?

          • home boy

            i’m just pointing out what the bible says on this matter. you can believe it or not . that’s up to you to either put GOD into your life or not. if i was gay and i knew what the bible said about men lying with men i would ignore it because i would have to change my social life style if i was to live by GOD’S laws. it is a choice .it is not being shoved down your throat like the gov did with health care.

          • Bitter Libertarian

            God is in my life. God also gave each human a FREE WILL. Govt interferring in that free will or making laws interferring in that free will that hurts NO ONE but the 2 willing parties…is putting faith-trust and respect in Govt above God.

          • home boy

            you can see what has happened to man over 6000yrs since man gave trust in their government. i shouldn’t have to go into the explaination of those results that you already know. gov does not work. never has and it never will. they sweet talk you into believeing that they are your best hope while they are putting a knife in your back. does GOD do the same? believe or don’t your option. but the truth is the truth weather it’s here or in iran. and to compare GOD’S book with gypsies just show me how little you kow about the bible.

          • Bitter Libertarian

            OK, now your out there…gypsies? Where did I mention Gypsies? LOL So since your putting words in my mouth…you have effectively ended a civil conversation.

          • Kinetic1

            Home Boy,
            The Catholic Church is said to be directly descended from the original disciples of Christ. Look at the history of the Catholic Church and tell me about the failure of government as opposed to the purity of Christ’s church. Look at any church and show me where they are not guilty of the same misuse of power. The Bible it’s self is filled with inaccuracies and purposeful changes crafted to insure power remained in the hands of a small group of men. At one time, most western civilizations believed in the infallibility of the church, giving the church power over the government/monarchy. It did little to prevent men from using both the government and the church to gain power. And today, the pope is bathed in treasures, fundamentalist leaders wear $3,000 suits, and the people are as often manipulated as ever.

    • Robert Smith

      Harold says: “The communist ‘manefesto’ calls for undermining the morals of a nation.”

      I’ll bet you approve of Phelp’s and his “God Hates Fags” antics. Now there is a self appointed “moral” christian.

      Rob

    • Robert Smith

      Harold claims: ” it is has nothing to do with ‘beieng born’ that way. It is a choice and it is perversion.”

      When did you “choose” to be straight? Is there anything that could entice you to to engage in same sex?

      THAT is how gays feel. They are attracted to their own sex as you are to the opposite.

      Rob

  • FEDUP

    All I want to know is what happen to all these liberals who scream about the seperatio of church and state. Isn’t marraige a religious ceremony or sacrament? So it is okay to scream about the seperation of church and state until it is something you want? TYPICAL LIBERALS!

    • Kinetic1

      Separation of Church and state applies to the Church’s right not to perform same sex marriages. These laws are a question regarding the legal aspects of marriage, an area where the church has no business interfering.

      • Bitter Libertarian

        Tell me where exactly in the US Constitution its says; “Seperation of Church and state”

        Or is that an acceptable perverted version of “Congress shall make no law RESPECTING and establishment of religion”…

        If thats your basis..then EVERY TAX law exempting religious organizations from paying taxes is ILLEGAL and the GOVT is NOT seperate from Church but in BED with them!

        • Kinetic1

          Bitter Libertarian,
          You can play literalist if you want, but you know where the phrase comes from. Since Jefferson was among those most responsible for the inclusion of religious independence in our founding documents, I think he had a pretty good idea what was meant.

          As to the tax free status of churches, or Bush’s “faith based initiative”, I don’t like either. In my point of view both are akin to state sponsorship of religion. The only thing that saves them is that it is not limited to any one religion. Since all religions, regardless of their foundational beliefs are given the same tax free status, then our government is not violating the wording or the intent of the Constitution.

          • Bitter Libertarian

            Since Playing literalist means NOT twisting or bending the written word to suit the left or rights personal adjenda’s …then sure…. consider me guilty and damn proud of it! Were I to pass a law that says; ” “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of ship builders” that would mean that shipbuilders get no special treatment from Congress over any other establishment.

            “Congress shall make NO Law respecting an establishment of religion” means they deserve no special treatment over any other establishment..yes, it is actually that simple.

            A condition not well known by many is that enjoying the TAX FREE status, those religious establishments have waived their 1st amendment free speech rights. Did you know that they are forbidden to discuss politics or face revoked tax free status?

          • Kinetic1

            Of course. Were they allowed to politicize from the pulpit, we might end up in the same position as our founders dealing with the church run states: A nation ruled by the beliefs of one church.

    • unreligious

      No marriage was originally a civil matter dealing with property rights of men. i.e. the women was a piece of property that was being exchanged from her father to her husband for other considerations. The Christian church did not even preform marriages in it’s early days. Before the Justinian Code (527-565 C E) a simple statement that you were married was all that was required. Catholic marriage in a Catholic church celebrated by a priest and two witnesses only became enforced with the Council of Trent 1563 CE Marriage has existed in countries such a Japan and China where Judeo-Christian traditions have never held much sway. i might also mention that both countries also had gay marriage as well as many European countries did in the past. You make the grave error of assuming that the way things are now is the way they have always been.

      • Robert Smith

        Athiests can get married in America.

        Don’t forget the Pagan “Hand Fasting.”

        Neither of those has anything to do with christanity.

        Rob

    • 45caliber

      FEDUP:

      Take a look at what Kinetic1 stated below you. He says that the gays only want the legal aspects. NOT TRUE. If they did, a civil union would be fine since it is strictly legal and not religious. Any other legal things defferent between a chruch union and a civil union could be worked out in politics.

      What they WANT is that everyone accept them as being normal and great. We should show our happiness when they marry. As one gay person said, “I will only be happy with the acceptance of gays when a boy tells his parents that he is going to the prom with another boy and they are happy about it.” So they want all reference to gay marriage being wrong to be illegal. And all religions should be purged of any reference to being gay being a sin. And it should be done legally by the government (courts are included). Since many believe God doesn’t exist, they do believe that all religion can be changed at a whim since it is man-made and not God-made.

      Further, they want all of it NOW. It took many decades for the government to give many of the benefits of marriage to even the straights. They want all the same things yesterday that the straights had to fight for years to get and can’t understand why they can’t get them that fast.

      • Kinetic1

        45,
        Your putting words into my mouth. Yes, I pointed out that homosexuals are denied the rights of married couples, but I never said that was all they want. Of course they want to be accepted. What person wants to be ridiculed for their beliefs and action. And I also want parents to be able to accept their children if they are homosexual. I would like to see my son find a nice girl and raise a family, but I hope I will be able to be happy for him if it turns out to be a nice boy.

        Change is tough, and it doesn’t come easy. And you are right when you say that it can’t be regulated. But sometimes it is the laws that we create to enforce basic rights that eventually encourage greater change. Now don’t get me wrong, I don’t expect everyone to accept gays. It took years before we were ready to elect a black man president, and the fact that we did doesn’t mean that there aren’t some Americans who still feel it’s wrong. Without government intervention and laws restricting segregation though, I doubt we’d be were we are today. I suspect the same holds true for homosexuals.

        So what do you think is really going to happen? Do you honestly believe that the government will force churches to perform same sex marriages? The Mormon church continued their policies against blacks attaining higher positions for years after desegregation. Many churches still won’t allow women to attain the position of priest or similar stations. The government stays out of it and I suspect they will do the same with homosexuals.

        Look, if I had it my way ALL marriages would be civil unions in the eyes of the government, and the marriage ceremony would be strictly a religious matter. Those churches that want to perform same sex marriages would, and those that didn’t would not. It would take care of a lot of issues, but I doubt the Christian fundamentalists would let it go at that. Instead of your vision of Homosexuals trying to force churches to allow same sex marriages, I foresee a group like the Westboro Baptists making life miserable at gay weddings. Intolerance has a way of turning ugly fast.

    • Robert Smith

      FEDUP claims: “Isn’t marraige a religious ceremony or sacrament?”

      No, it is NOT in the eyes of the law.

      Atheists can be married.

      And, so can gays in some states. There are even some christian churches where they get married.

      Rob

  • FEDUP

    Harold I would have to disagree as to wheather it is a choice. I believe for 99% it is genetic. However, on the other hand I do not want it shoved down my throat. Why do you have to come out of the closet. Why does everyone have to know you are gay. Why is it so important for one gay to “out” another gay. When I meet people I don’t tell them I am heterosexual. How come heterosexuals don’t run around telling eveyone else who is heterosexual? You are what you are and deal with it

    • Kinetic1

      FEDUP,
      Most homosexuals do not intentionally force the issue on the heterosexual community. They are no more likely to boast about being out of the closet than most heterosexual people are of making porn films. The one major difference is that heterosexuals are not refused jobs due to their sexual orientation (except maybe those who make porn films.) They are not denied the right to sit by their spouse’s hospital bed, or denied a spouse’s pension. These issues have brought a lot of homosexuals out into the light to fight for their rights, not just to make you you uncomfortable.

      As to the question of “How come heterosexuals don’t run around telling everyone else who is heterosexual?” open your eyes. Every day I see people dressed in overtly sexual ways. Women and men flirt constantly. Products are sold in print and on TV using sex as the tool. I don’t like seeing some of the men and women in gay pride parades any more than I like seeing women in thongs. And outing? I read today that Tod Palin may have had an affair with a masseuse. Why should I care? Why should his sexual proclivities be broadcast to the world? Homosexuals may at least have the excuse of wanting the world to know that they are not just a bunch of odd balls who can’t be a part of society (though I don’t see this as a good reason to expose anyone who doesn’t want to be), but what is our excuse? We heterosexuals have entire magazines and TV shows dedicated to exposing, among other bad behavior the sexual misconduct of our peers. It’s sad, but it seems to be part of our nature.

      • 45caliber

        Kinetic:

        I have absolutely no problem with gay partners getting the same benifits as straights. I do have a problem with them insisting that I have to change my religion and way of live to accomodate them. If they want these things you have mentioned, let them go to Congress or to their state capitol and lobby for them like everyone else does. Instead, most want it by getting some “special privilege” that no one else has.

      • Robert Smith

        “Tod Palin may have had an affair with a masseuse…”

        The story was broken by the National Enquirer. They do have some credibility. They broke the story on John Edwards.

        BTW, Sarah’s husband, Todd Palin, was Member of Pro-Secession AIP.

        How’s that for being a patriot? Alaska could become an oil state like a bunch of those arabs with the state religion… Their version of hateful christanity.

        Rob

  • James

    Just yesterday, Tech. Sgt. David Gutierrez (43) was convicted, in a militaary court, of exposing multiple sex partners to HIV at swinger parties, and was sentenced to 8 years in military prison and will be dishonorably discharged after serving his time.
    Sgt. Gutierrez was earlier found guilty of 7 counts of aggravated assault and violating his commander’s order to notify partners about his HIV status and to use condoms. He was also convicted of indecent acts for having sex in front of others and 8 counts of adultery.
    Welcome ta ‘merica.

    • Kinetic1

      James,
      What does this have to do with ANYTHING! A federal grand jury indicted Jared Loughner on three counts of attempted murder. I guess this means that all Arizonans are killers? Republican lawmaker Larry Craig was arrested in a bathroom for soliciting gay sex. I guess that all Republican lawmakers must be Gay?

      “Daniel Paul Hedge, 46, was booked on four felony complaints of spreading an infectious disease and an additional four felony complaints of knowingly engaging in the transference of HIV/AIDS….emergency workers told Tulsa Police that while they were treating Hedge’s serious wounds, he would not cooperate as they tried to stop the bleeding. Instead, Hedge slung his head so that blood struck the workers and spit at them, telling them he had HIV and Hepatitis C.”

      Google it James. Just as Jared Loughner appears to be a nut case with no definite political affiliation, there are nut cases. gay and straight who are angry about having AIDs and want to hurt as many other people as they can.

      • 45caliber

        Sadly, some even believe that there isn’t enough money spend on Aids research – even though more is spent on it that on cancer.

        They believe that if enough other people get it, that more money will be spent – so they do their best to make sure others get it.

        • http://gunner689 gunner689

          But AIDS is a politically correct disease.

        • eddie47d

          What nonsense Caliber!

  • James Sr.

    God made the earth, then man and said man needed a companion, then
    he created women. He did not make another man.

    • 45caliber

      Right on.

    • Bill

      James Sr.

      Bravo!

    • Robert Smith

      So…

      For those who don’t care bout your god and they stories around him it doesn’t make any difference.

      Nobody is forcing you to be gay. Why do you try to force your religion upon others?

      Rob

  • Joe C

    Why don’t we just find another word for this same sex stuff. Gay once was a very nice word for “happy” and “merry” events. Then the poop sexers stole it. Then they did the same with “rainbow”, and now they insist on stealing or misusing the word “marriage.” Just call them “family contractors” or some other non-descript term and give them the right to live together. Should they be raising kids? Hmmm. Should they be in the military? Yeh, in units with their own kind. As a commander I don’t want the troubles they bring. One of my friends has the best idea….give them their own state…Santa Rosa Island. Let’s stop dividing the country over this. People with religious upbringing and normal sexual behavior will NEVER accept calling these abnormal unions “marriage.”

    • Kinetic1

      In Victorian England, Happy Christmas became the norm due to Victoria’s displeasure with the word merry becoming a euphemism for drunk or tipsy. I don’t think the change came when drunks started to say “I’m merry!” I believe it has to do with others looking for a word that makes them feel more comfortable.

      Now, homosexuals and others should be angry at us for using their word. Yep, “As early as 1637 the Oxford English Dictionary gives one meaning as “addicted to social pleasures and dissipations. Often euphemistically: Of loose and immoral life”–whence, presumably, the term “gay blade.” In the 1800s the term was used to refer to female prostitutes; to “gay it” meant “to copulate.”

      Sorry. No more feeling “gay” or having a “gay” outing for you. Unless, of course you mean……

  • shadow_man

    Violence against a minority group

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Violence_against_LGBT_people

    Gays are being beaten, shot at, sent to the hospital, killed. In the Middle East, they are killing gays among other groups out of hatred. Is this what we want America to become? Do we want America to revert back to the 1960′s when groups were killed and segregated against for simply no good reason? Do we want to follow the ways of the Middle East and Al Queda? Let’s push forward, it’s time to end bigotry, discrimination, hate, and ignorance. This is modern America, not the Dark Ages.

    http://www.fbi.gov/hq/cid/civilrights/hate.htm

    • http://gunner689 gunner689

      is there a limit to what you consider acceptable ? is pedophilia or beastiality OK with you ? Should we move the bar down the road to total degradation ? Is that the kind of country you want for your children ?

      • Robert Smith

        Hey gunner…

        My children have been brought up without hate.

        One is an Eagle Scout. He clearly understands how the extreme right took over Scouting and how the local group has ignored them so far.

        Rob

    • Bill

      Keep forcing it upon us and you are getting a possible glimpse of the Homosexual future in America.

      • Robert Smith

        What are gays forcing on you?

        Did they come into your home in pumps and screw on your dining room table?

        Oh, that’s right… There is that equality thing that you just don’t want them to have. Clue: Your position is un-American.

        Rob

  • unreligious

    Why don’t we just give the religious people their own state were they can impose their religious views on the inhabitants. We could call it Iran.

    • home boy

      tell that to the people who live in sodom and gomorrah

      • unreligious

        Another one of your religions myths. Which incidentally is about rape and inhospitably.

        • home boy

          the bible has over 700 prophetcies come to pass.what do you have besides making statement with no material to back it up?

          • Kinetic1

            Ask anyone who believes in astrology, tarot cards or palm reading how many times predictions made for them have come to pass. I think you’ll find you’re in good company.

          • 45caliber

            It is easy to make a prediction come to pass if you work hard at it. I remember a girl friend I had one time who believed in astrology. She was upset one day because her horiscope said she would meet someone new that day – and she was stuck at home due to lack of a car and bad weather. She HAD to get out and meet someone knew because the prediction said so!

            It is much harder to predict something that will come to pass after those who hear it are long dead. But the Bible has great success at that.

            I’ve seen the success rate of many of the top psycics – it is less than 1%. Random choice does better than that.

          • unreligious

            It’s very easy to have predictions come to pass if you write about them after the fact. Then you can rearrange things to suit your story.

        • 45caliber

          unreligious:

          Please peddle your religion somewhere else. We don’t wish to listen to you. I’m sure you can find other sites that would be happy to agree with you in your worship.

        • 45caliber

          unreligious:

          You are right. It is a story about rape and inhospitality. You know, the same stuff in your religion.

      • Robert Smith

        home boy says: “tell that to the people who live in sodom and gomorrah”

        Interesting and exceedingly god you have there home boy.

        Destroyed a couple of cities. BTW, what’s gamority? Am I missing something?

        Flooded the entire world except for Noah and his kin.

        Oh and then there was that killing of first born folks.

        And in his name there was that inquisition thing. Toasted any witches lately home boy?

        Check out the Maleius Malificarum. It’s available on line.

        Quite frankly among gods yours is the most brutal and unjust I’ve ever seen.

        Rob

    • 45caliber

      unreligious:

      Why don’t you just move to Iran and change their government to what you want it to be? Why mess with our country – who allows you to do as you like? Can it be that because we have tolerant religious beliefs that you want to get rid of our religion instead of risking something with someone else’s?

      • unreligious

        Yes your posts show your tolerance. Incidentally my family has been in this country since the 1660′s and under the laws of this country people have the right to petition the government for redress. In other words I have the right to work to change laws that I feel are unjust and not be told be people like you to move else where. My comment on the religious people move to a separate state was in response to JoeC saying gay people should move to a separate state. Yes I well aware you don’t want to hear what I have to say. Religious people never want to hear truths that may shatter their beliefs, which are built on sand.

        • 45caliber

          You certainly have the right to get laws passed. Go to it. But don’t insist that if the laws don’t satisfy you, that you should get a judge to rule that the laws are wrong. Particularly when they have been around working fine for two hundred plus years.

          That particularly involves religion. Each type of religion (Jewish, Christian, Muslim, etc.) has a set of religious laws. We have learned to be tolerant of the laws other religions have (except the Muslims, of course). If you want to worship some different way (and you do) go ahead. All I want is the right to do the same. But when you insist on prostilizing your religion as you are here, then I have the right to call you down on it. Just as you have the right to call down anyone trying to convert you to Christianity. What you are insisting is that NO ONE can mention any religion near you regardless of what you say (except maybe Muslim since they can get violent).

        • 45caliber

          Incidently, some of my family has been here since before 1660.

        • Bill

          Unreligious,

          You commented that you think our religion is built upon sand. Well, that may be true,but it is sand that was created by God.

          • Robert Smith

            According to you, Bill.

            According to you…

            Some of us who have seen the brutality advocated by the right in the name of your hateful god just can’t seem to agree.

            Rob

  • Dennis

    You may listen to people or man making laws but i for one will listen to my creator.He makes it clear what marriage is and what its for.He makes it very clear what its not and what he thinks of same sex anything.Nuff said.Praise GOD

    • Robert Smith

      You are entitled to follow the wishes of your god.

      You DO NOT get to impose those beliefs upon others outside your corrupt and violent version of christanity.

      “God hates fags” doesn’t belong at the funeral of a 9 year-old girl.

      Rob

  • 45caliber

    When laws are passed and honored in court because they “give equal freedom” to some minority, it means that our country is no longer democratic or republic. It is a dictatorship by minorities. The majority of the population are under the control of some small group.

    You can use any justification to give those minority groups what they want, but it doesn’t change the fact that the minorities are in control. I had no problem with gay people getting married – until they started demanding that I change my religion to honor them for it. The same with many other minorities who gain “special privileges”. The very definition of “special privileges” is that someone is getting some sort of privilege that the majority of the people are NOT getting.

    • unreligious

      So when women were given the right to vote they were given a special privilege men did not have? When black people were given the right to eat at the same lunch counter or ride anywhere on the bus they were given a spacial privilege white people did not have. When Chinese people were given the right to marry and own property they were give a special privilege that non-chinese people did not have? When gay people are given the right to marry they are given a privilege that straight people do not have? How does granting Gay people the right to marry force you to change your religion. Giving gay people the right to marry does not force any church to marry them any more than giving divorced people the right to remarry forced the Catholic church to marry them. Permitting inter faith marriage does not force any church to marry people of different faiths anymore than granting gay marriage would force them to marry gay people. Many churches preform Gay marriages and yet the states that do not recognize them are infringing on the rights of those churches.

      • 45caliber

        I believe I stated that minorities can have the same rights. Your examples prove it. (However, I don’t consider women a minority; there are more of them than men.) So what?

      • Kim

        I think you need to define “church” because any church or clergy of any church that embraces, or preforms a gay marriage is not Christian, because they do go against the Bible! I myself self do not believe that religion should tell the unbeliever how to live, the Bible gives a way to live and is for Christians and anyone who might want to become a Christian. As for unbelievers, it has no bearing on their life in this world, whether they are morally good, or anything else, and there is no need to argue about it, you a free to believe what you want too, just remember, if you are wrong and we are right, eternity sure will be rough

        • Robert Smith

          Kim says: “if you are wrong and we are right, eternity sure will be rough”

          And if the true christian god is a loving god who doesn’t accept hate and bigotry…

          After all, there are many christians, Bishop Spong for example, who accept gays and understand their loving relationships.

          It sure will be fun to watch Fred Phelps get what he diserves.

          Rob

      • http://gunner689 gunner689

        Quit using the word “Gays”; they’re queers, perverts, or faggots. Gay is a verb meaning happy and light-hearted; not perverted.

        This whole queer thing is a classic example of the “Big Lie” theory. Tell a lie often enough, in this case “being a queer is acceptable behavior”, and eventually people give up and accept it as fact. Defining ones self by the act of sticking your manhood where another man defecated is not normal nor is it acceptable nor should it be encouraged.

        • Kinetic1

          gunner,
          I repeat “As early as 1637 the Oxford English Dictionary gives one meaning as “addicted to social pleasures and dissipations. Often euphemistically: Of loose and immoral life”–whence, presumably, the term “gay blade.” In the 1800s the term was used to refer to female prostitutes; to “gay it” meant “to copulate.”

          Gay is and has been more than just “happy” since long before you, or I, or our great great great grandparents were born.

        • Nate

          I think that you are not normal and should not be encouraged.

  • http://dwickern@hotmail.com tommy wells

    Karolyn (Jan 20 response) uses the old ‘equality’ argument.
    Well, I see nothing buy equality as the law now stands in most States. Inequality would be where one group is treated differently than another. But such is not the case with the homosexual marriage issue. (Note: I did not use the word Gay as a substitute for Sodomite).

    Homosexuals are provided the same opportunities in marriage as are Heterosexuals. Both groups can marry any non-blood related close relative of the opposite sex the chose. Neither can marry some one of the same sex (what a joke to even to consider that statement!!). The laws apply to both groups equally, so no discrimination, or inequality exists. What Homosexuals are actually wanting is special treatment, to rearrange the Social and Moral values attached to marriage.

    A valid marriage, regardless of what State Law states, is only between a man & woman. Everything else is a fake, a fraud, a distortion.

    The Supreme Court should have ruled as such.

    • eddie47d

      I believe you contradicted yourself.(They have the same rights…but they don’t)

      • 45caliber

        eddie:

        They have the same right. If they choose to not take advantage of it, it isn’t my fault.

        • Robert Smith

          “Sodomite” is a religious term.

          There the right goes again with that hateful “god” stuff.

          Rob

  • shar

    Donald Young and Larry Sinclair have a LOT to do with this.
    One of these men is alive and one is not.
    Both have a “history” with our president.
    If both could speak – we would understand why this homosexual agenda is being pushed onto all Americans. Horrible.

    • http://gunner689 gunner689

      It wouldn’t surprise me that BO is a part-time puffer.

  • eddie47d

    Everyone has an agenda including you and me. The Pharaohs had an agenda,to enslave Jews.Moses had an agenda,to free those Jews.Reagan had an agenda and so does Obama.So you are correct to say homosexuals have an agenda,to live free from discrimination.

    • 45caliber

      If they want to live free from prosecution, they need to found their own country. They won’t find it here by passing laws. Laws only work if people agree with them. If they don’t then it makes them madder and more apt to cause harm.

      • eddie47d

        No they won’t find it here because of people like you. You rally your thoughts behind the Constitution but only when it suits you.

      • Robert Smith

        45 says: “If they want to live free from prosecution, they need to found their own country.”

        Done that and pretty much failed. It’s called Liberia over in Africa.

        Oh! Maybe they can take Alaska. There are already folks up there, like Sarah’s husband, who are working for that.

        Rob

  • Dee

    As I’ve said before, the morals of this country is going to hell.
    The DADT should be kept in place for the military.
    The gays and lesbians should not be allowed to marry.
    There will come a day when these people will have to pay for their sins.

    • Larry

      The day you are appointed GOD I’ll listen to what you have to say.

      • Robert Smith

        I won’t listen.

        Their blathering is just too hateful.

        There are much more loving gods out there.

        Rob

  • newspooner

    Society as a whole has defined marriage over many centuries — one man and one woman. Anything else is irrational. Tolerance is fine, but forced approval is evil. The worst possible thing would be for government to redefine marriage. It has no right to do so. If government can get away with redefining marriage, it can get away with redefining anything. Then individual liberty would disappear for hundreds of years.

    • Robert Smith

      It didn’t have a right to define it in the first place if as you claim marriage is a religios ting.

      Rob

  • robert

    In response to any one that gay marriage is acceptable is wrong. The only ones that are saying this is the left. There is a great number in this country that believes that gay anthing is moraly wrong and just down right nasty and foul. It goes against the bible and the christian faith and it also goes against the islam faith and they kill gays for being gay. So think about that.

    • Robert Smith

      Yes robert…

      Extreme right wing christians do have a lot in common with extreme right wing muslums.

      There, I’ve thought about it.

      Rob

  • Alvis Jenkins

    It is a known fact that babies from the womb, begin sucking from their mother’s breast or other means such as a bottle to acquire food, not sucking on another of the same sex. Anal sex is not what I learned about men homosexuals. One man in a homosexual rally depicted what he liked about his choice of being gay, that he loved sperm. Was he born with sperm going into his mouth? No, the contrary. His means of sexual pleasure leads to the spread of communicable disease. Men beineg married to men and women being married to women has never produced one baby. If you still believe that is what constitutes marriage, then you have no idea of how YOU got here.

    • Kinetic1

      Alvis,
      You would have an interesting argument here if oral sex were not so popular among heterosexual couples. If you feel that all people who practice oral sex should be ostracized and denied the right to marry, well your in for a big surprise when you see the numbers. You might also note the number of married couples who choose not to have children. Marriage is about much more than just procreation.

    • Robert Smith

      Alvis and his hate say: “Anal sex is not what I learned about men homosexuals.”

      It’s bad because that’s where I hear lawyers come from.

      Remember, heterosexuals do it MORE than gays simply because gays are about 10% of the population in America. The fact is that the other 90% do all sorts of stuff too.

      BTW, if sex is only for having babieeeeeees then you have to go along with the notion that any post-menopausal woman can’t be married, or a war vet with a certain type of injury can never marry.

      Rob

  • http://com i41

    The crap of minorities (like faggots and queers) being discrimminated against, it is move phony victumology bildge. To give these sick wanna be perverts special rights, discriminates against the vast majority of social norms. It hads always been a method of the Demeocrap Socialist Party to put people in special segments, just like sorting livestock in to classes. Since vine hangers groups embraced the Socialist Party, since they have become generational wards of the government. Since democraps have always voted and done everything possible to keep the clowns in the feilds. Check the facts on democrat Presidents and Congressmen voting records and attitudes. Since the queer and steers want to be special, well I guess segregation is the way to settle that problem. Same goes for all the other special classification groups they will not assemulate or follow social norms, segregate. Since the crossbred AG went after the “mobsters”, they should ask about beign discrimination charge since they are classified as white. But now if they are Black Pathers,Coon in the Moon Wright spouting non stop voilence and social unrest, or Cylso Louie’s muslim perverts shaking down and threatening people, it is just their hertatige thing and whites just don’t “understand” their socialist crap.

    • Ryu

      (offensive comment removed)

    • Robert Smith

      such name calling i41!

      How christian of you.

      Rob

  • http://com i41

    That is Clypso Louie Farrakan!

  • JWFAN

    Heterosexuality, Homosexuality, Bi-Sexuality, Beastiality and some other forms all exist on this earth. What is the answer to these differences ? Heterosexality allows for the promulgation of the human species/race, and is the norm. Without it almost all of us wouldn’t be here. Science has developed artificial insemination options, at present, on a small, very expensive scale.

    From the state of the present world that we are coming to, this experiment of God/Nature is fast approaching the time when this “Grand Experiment” will be concluded.

    Mankind now has the power to exterminate itself. Right/Wrong is subjective to whatever too many want it to be at the moment. It’s as though we are entering into a similar time to what happened regarding the Tower of Babel and we may very well destroy the human race and let God/Nature embark on a new “Grand Experiment”. The Dinosaurs had their time as the dominant species for millions of years and then was replaced by the Human Race — And we are not doing a very good job of being worthy to exist. Do unto others is such a great concept that our race appears to be unable to live up to. Maybe we should all agree to disagree and get out of the way…

    • Ryu

      The ones who are most “moralistic” are the ones with the most skeletons in the closet.

  • http://com i41

    Cannblim is not a normal behavior, and carcusses should be ground up to help the soil, not stink up the air. In the livestock production world, all specimens get disposed of and usally the dam and sire are sent to the packing house too. Non productive organisms are not profitable are expensive to maintain.

    • Larry

      How about sharing something that resembles some form of intelligence if you don’t mind.

    • Robert Smith

      i41 says: “Cannblim is not a normal behavior,”

      Sure it is. Remember that transsubstancian thing. Christians really are eating flesh and drinking blood in their rituals.

      Rob

  • Acushla

    Our LORD YAHSHUA has said we are to hate the sin with all our hearts but still the sinner love with the LOVE of YAHWEH not with human love. The tragedy will continue with the next step being brother sister marriage.

    • Robert Smith

      Ahhhh, the lie of the slippery slope: “The tragedy will continue with the next step being brother sister marriage.”

      And granny is gonna be bumped off when Oregon legalized assisted suicide. Oops she didn’t.

      Rob

  • GayChristian

    I have read some of the most hateful, judgemental condemnations here in the form of so called comments mostly by those calling themselves God fearing Christians. Those same Christians, just love to take what
    I call the “hammer verses” that are in the bible, OUT OF CONTEXT, and use them to condemn homosexuality and anything connected with it as a vile and perverted sin – the worst of the worst sin, right up there
    with blasphemy. Further, some of you are so bold as to equate homosexuality with beastiality and pedophilia, which is beyond absurd!!!

    I notice NONE of you that are using bible verses as a justification for spewing your judgemental hatred here mentioned Mathew 7:1 which says “Judge not, lest ye be judged.” Nor did you mention John 8:7 “He who is without sin, let him cast the first stone.” How about James 2:10 “For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.” Basically that last versus proves that according to the bible, there is no degree of sin in Gods eyes. He can look upon NO sin. One sin is just as bad as any other, no matter how small.

    So I guess all of you GAY bashing Christians have NEVER committed ANY sin, after you became a Christian? Never so much as had a lustful thought, or told a little white lie, or talked behind someones back? I would be forced to say that any of you that would try and say you haven’t committed any sin since becoming a Christain, are in fact liars.

    Guess that makes YOU just as much of a sinner as any homosexuals you are so quick to vilify. I love the a-hole that said homosexuality is a mental illness. You apparently are not aware that homosexuality is no longer classified, nor treated as, a mental illness by the mental health profession, nor do they consider it a perversion. So before you go running your mouth and telling that lie again, I suggest you read the DSM IV, although I seriously doubt you even know what that is.

    So, since ALL, which includes YOU, have sinned and come short of the glory of God, where do you get off acting so self-righteous to the point where some of you go so far as to say that homosexuals should be forced to live seperately in their own state?

    Are you not aware that the Apostle Paul said that it is better to not
    marry at all? But he also said that it is better to marry than to burn. That’s right out of the bible and found in 1 Corinthians 7:9.

    I have always believed that meant if you feel that you just must have
    sex and you can’t control yourself, then by all means get married and only have sex with your spouse.

    For those of you that are so convinced that the bible condemns homosexuality, I very strongly urge you to read the book, “The Children are Free” which can be found here. http://www.amazon.com/Children-Are-Free-Reexamining-Relationships/dp/0971929602/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1295643485&sr=1-1

    It was written by a pastor who was raised in fundamentalist independent bastist churches. He received his undergraduate degree from Bob Jones university. He also happens to be Gay and living with his partner in committed, monogamous relationship since 1990. I personally know Jeff, and found out a couple of years ago that he and I attended the same independant baptist church during the same time frame when we were both teenagers. It was the same church where I was saved.

    I am a 54 year old female, and have been gay since I can remember. My earliest memories of feeling “different” go back to when I was in kindergarden. As I said, I am also very much a devoted Christian, that accepted Jesus Christ into my heart when I was 18. I have studied the bible for many years. I didn’t not agree with accepting
    someone else’s interpretation of what the bible said. I wanted to form my own conclusions which I have done.

    Jeff, like myself, spent many years feeling guilty and trying to reconcile being gay with being a Christian, mainly because of feeling so strongly drawn to both of those things.

    I remember getting down on my knees and begging God to remove my homosexuality after I became a Christian. Didn’t happen. I remember
    when my pastor found out that I was gay, of him pushing me down on my
    knees and him praying to remove this abomination and unnatural desires from my heart. Didn’t happen. That was also the last time I chose to attend that church, too.

    It wasn’t until after I read Jeff’s book that I found that indeed you could be a homosexual and be a Christian, too, and have no guilt because of it based on the scriptures. Quite frankly I was pretty
    PO’d that people who call themselves Christians, actually used the
    scriptures to condemn my attraction to the same sex, and did their
    best to make me feel as guilty as possible, over something that to
    me felt very natural.

    As I said, I strongly urge ANYONE that uses the scriptures to condemn
    homosexuality, to read that book. Read it with an open mind and make sure that you have a bible handy when you do. Unlike you who just love to take a verse out of context and use it to gay bash, this book does not do that. It discusses the whole chapter where those versus are found and PROVES conclusively that they are not condemning homosexuality as it would appear when reading the verse by itself without the rest of the chapter.

    It also shows how the translations of those verses from one language to another to another, over the many years since it was originally written, have been done more often than not, incorrectly.

    Such as when a greek word was translated, it may have had many different meanings, yet the person that translated it chose one particular meaning of the word. He then picked a word from the language he was translating it to, that meant nearly the same thing as the meaning he chose. Then also remember that the translated versions, were then translated again into a different language.

    It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to figure out that after being translated from one language to the next, many different times, that the a particular word used in the King James version of the bible that is used today, may mean something completely different than what it did in the original language. Now ponder on that for a while.

    I would like to inform every one of you gay bashing straight folks, that I did NOT chose to be gay. If you have a hard time grasping that concept, then let me say it this way, I CHOSE to be gay, the SAME day that YOU chose to be straight. What’s that you say? You mean you didn’t choose to be straight at some point and that it is just what comes natural to you? In fact you are revolted by the thought of
    having sex with someone of the same sex?

    Well guess what? I feel the exact same way you do about the same sex as far as what feels natural to me!!! Hummmm, maybe being homosexual is something that is determined by our genes? If so, it is no more a choice then it is a choice what sex you were born as.

    What gives you the right to tell me that I am not normal, when your
    concept of what is normal is what feels normal to you? Let’s put the shoe on the other foot for a while. Let me ask you to imagine what it would be like for you in the following situation. Suppose, YOU who are straight, were born into a world where what is considered to be normal by the vast majority of people in that world is feeling sexually attracted to the same sex. You, because you are attracted to the opposite sex, are considered by most people to be abnormal. You are told that you choose to be straight, and that if you wanted to be, you could chose to be gay.

    You are told you are a pervert and that you are condemned to hell by God because of your sinful desires. Imagine you were subjected to this kind of hatred your entire life. How likely would you be to decide that you will become gay? I dare say THAT would not happen.

    How would you like to have to hide your attraction to the opposite sex and pretend to be gay? How would you like to be hit on by the same sex all the time? How would you like it if you fell in love with someone of the opposite and wanted to spend the rest of your life with them in a committed relationship, but be told that you can’t legally marry? How would you feel if the gay people out there, who were permitted to marry, got all up in arms and went ballistic, because you were merely asking for the same right to marry that the gay people have?

    Can you even begin to fathom what a life like that would be like? Would it not be pure hell being subjected to all that hatred simply
    because you were attracted to the opposite sex?

    Well, welcome to my world, and welcome to the world that all homosexuals are forced to live in. Isn’t it pleasant?

    Also as far actually choosing to be homosexual, you have GOT to be kidding me????? Can you think of even ONE sane person, that would actually CHOSE to be homosexual????? Considering how homosexuality is condemned by so many people, and that you risk being ostracized, or worse yet murdered, if those same people find out that you are homosexual. Yes, I am talking about the same people that have chosen to spew there hatred here.

    How many teenagers have been thrown out of their home by their parents after telling them they were gay? How many gay people have
    been terminated from their jobs strictly because they are gay. How many homosexuals have been murdered simply because they were gay? If you can’t think of any, let me remind you of Mathew Shepard. Basically 20 years ago, you were persecuted terribly if it was discovered you were homosexual.

    I could go on naming reasons why NO ONE would actually choose to be homosexual, but I think I’ve made my point. What I want to know is
    who came up with the idea that homosexuality is a choice?????? Considering all the things I have pointed out, is that not the most
    assinine thing that anyone could say, let alone actually believe????

    Now, as far as homosexuals being able to legally marry, why is that
    such a bad thing? How in the world, is that going to cause harm to straight marriage? In what way is it going to cheapen the sanctity of marriage? And for those of you who say homosexuals are not forbidden to marry, provided we marry someone of the opposite sex, are you trying to be funny or what? That was a completely STUPID statement for you to make.

    Do you realize the number of gay couples that have been in a committed relationship for many decades, where one of them dies, and the family of the deceased one, comes in and throws the living person out of his home which is a home that the couple purchased together and had lived in for many, many years. Further the relatives of the deceased, deem that everything in the home is also owned by their dead relative, so the remaining partner ends up with nothing.

    Do you think that is in the least bit fair to the surviving partner and that would be the wishes of the deceased?

    Of course not!!!!

    However, if the couple does not both have wills that specify that everything owned by the deceased partner goes to the surviving partner, that is exactly how the law dictates who the property goes
    to.

    This very thing has happened to many, many homosexual couples over the years.

    Both people that make up the couple have to have a lot of legal documents that spell out exactly the intentions of each partner. These documents are of course not free to obtain. An attorney must prepare them and no attorney is cheap. Why should gay couples be forced to jump through all the legal hoops when straight couples aren’t required to do that, yet they are fully protected under the law???

    As has also been pointed out, living wills are also required so that
    the partners can make decisions for each other should one of them be incapacitated and unable to make any decisions for themselves.

    Married couples don’t have to worry about jumping through all the legal hoops to be afforded protection under the law from greedy relatives that swoop in to grab everything thing that they can.

    THAT is the MAIN reason why homosexuals want to be able to legally marry. They want their rights as a couple to be protected. The only
    want the same rights that straight people have when they marry. They are asking for no special treatment.

    There are other reasons for wanting to marry too, such as the committment goes, as every straight couple that gets married knows very well.

    Why don’t we cut to the chase here. The reason that some of you hate
    homosexuality so much is because you fear it because you do not understand it. Since it feels so abnormal to you and you are revolted by the idea of having sex with someone of the same sex, you deem that there is something seriously wrong anyone that doesn’t feel revolted by it too. That fear you feel comes out of ignorance and believing in the homosexual stereotypes that you believe fit all homosexuals. I would venture to say, that you most likely THINK you have never even been around anyone that is gay, let alone had a gay friend. I would also say that it is highly likely that you HAVE been
    around gay people that you didn’t know were gay because they don’t fit the stereotypes that you believe all gay people are like. You
    most likely would be amazed at the number of gay people you come in contact with nearly everyday.

    Believe me, that vast majority of gay people do not fit the stereotypes that you believe they do. I have had many straight friends that had no idea I was gay, even some rabid homophobics, since I was in the closet for a very long time. I have even come
    out to some of them after we were friends for a good many years.
    And without fail, no one has ever stopped being my friend because of it. As a matter of fact, when I told them I was gay, they were quite
    surprised and even dumbfounded. A strange thing usually happens too,
    and that is they decide they were wrong in condeming all gays, since
    they knew me and I wasn’t all that much different then they were, nor was I militantly gay. They decided that my friendship was more important to them than their hatred of gays. Some of them are even very outspoken and will climb anyones butt if they hear them gay bashing. They end up becoming some of the biggest advocates for gay rights that I know.

    In conclusion, the next time you feel like ragging on gay people, just
    remember the scenerio of what it would be like being born straight into a gay world.

    And one more thing, I am VERY conservitive in my political views.
    I identify more with the libertarians than I do with republicans.
    I believe in smaller limited gov’t as the founding fathers intended it
    to be, don’t legislate my health, and stay OUT of my bedroom. What I do in the privacy of my own bedroom is no ones business but my own and the person that is in the bedroom with me.

    I really do NOT like the way most of the republicans are rabidly anti-gay. However, when it comes to my having to vote for a republican or a democrat for office, I will take the republican 10 to 1, I don’t care how PRO gay rights the democrat is.

    Look at the situation this country is in now, especially fiscally. We are on the verge of an economic collapse and the dollar is basically worthless, thanks to the outrageous spending of a Fascist dictator that was elected as president and his nazi comrads Pulosi
    and Reed along with the other demos that controlled the house and senate, that gave him everything he desired, including that monstrous
    piece of socialist legislation called Obamacare, that no one in their right mind wanted. This is what those wonderful democrats have done since they have controlled everything.

    God help this country!!!!!!!!!!!

    • who cares

      Then you are not gay. you may like — but it does not make you gay, and republican. According to this wing nuts.

    • http://?? Joe H.

      Gay,
      I feel sorry for you. you willingly take the word of a man that says what you want to hear over a man that says what you don’t wish to hear! It’s as simple as that! This “Jeff” is nothing but a man not all knowing, not omnipotent! you may choose to believe his tripe but don’t expect us ALL to believe in contradiction of the Lord!!

    • Bill

      HomosexualChristian,

      There are numerous points that I could respond to, but I will just focus on a few. Your use of Scriptures to vindicate your homosexual perversion is rather weak at best. You have chosen the delusional anecdote of a confused servant to fortify your argument. we know that even Satan can masquerade as a Child of Light. Another tactic well played by the homosexual community is to play the role of being victimized,or using ambiguity as the origin of your disease,and it is a disease, which was once listed by the APA until they kowtowed to pressure by homosexuals.

      You claim that all you are seeking is equality, the benefits enjoyed by heterosexual couples. Well, I can call you a bold face liar.I submit as my evidence of proof the state of Massachusetts and the consequences of allowing same sex marriage.After legalization of same sex marriage the homosexual community ramped up their demands on the state and so began the parade of homosexual peversions being thrust upon the citizens. For those interested in reading for themselves the truth to what happens when same sex marriage is legalized and the consequences for doing so, please check out this website. http://www.massresistance.org/

      Lastly,before you decide to point your finger of condemnation at those with differing opinions, remember that there are three fingers pointing right back at you.

      • libertytrain

        I didn’t take her comments as condemning those pointing fingers at people in her position, I got the feeling she was trying to make us aware of what it’s like from her side of the situation. Hers is the very first post I have read from the gay community that felt like a genuine person trying to reach out and help us understand rather than some snide remarks.

        • Bill

          No matter how much you attempt to sugar coat sin,it will always bear an unpleasant taste, as well as the its wages – Death.

          • Larry

            Since we’re all sinners, get over yourself!

          • Bill

            Hey Larry,

            Yes we are all sinners, but some of us have repented. Have you?

          • libertytrain

            “Sinners in the Hands of an Angry God” – Jonathan Edwards – 1741

          • Bill

            Libertytrain,

            I am assuming that you feel competent enough to recognize the intent of the Human Soul, and in your arrogance become an intermediate to deliver me into God’s Hands. The problem here is the antagonism between our viewpoints. My truths were spoken in the spirit of Love,not in a naked condemnation laced in Bigotry. Another flaw, is the assumption that I was making a personal moralistic judgment,on the contrary. Any presence of judgment evolves from that of the Divine,not Human.

          • libertytrain

            I don’t know what your beliefs are nor do I understand your attack or the point of it. I neither approve nor disapprove of the gay situation. I don’t feel quite Christ-like in condemning yet not quite able to embrace this either. I welcomed the information from the lady. And will leave this in God’s and His Son’s hand to determine the answer. I am not qualified.

          • Robert Smith

            Hi Bill,

            Some of us are NOT sinners because we don’t buy into your religion.

            “sin” only applies to those who create it.

            The rest of us are on our marry way.

            Rob

          • Bill

            Robert Smith,

            It is irrelevant whether you believe in my religion or not. ALL are sinners and have fallen short the glory of God.

    • libertytrain

      Gay Christian -I found your post to be thought-provoking.

    • blv54

      gay christian, you have an evil spirit of homosexuality, no matter how much you rant the Bible is clear God hates the sin of homosexuality and I think your at war with yourself kind of like schizophrenia, if you are saved God is calling you out of that lifestyle and you can’t have peace about it no matter how much you rationalize you can say no to that bondage satan has no legal hold on a born again christian, hope you find peace.

      • Robert Smith

        You really should read some of Bishop Spong’s writings.

        Maybe this will interest you: “All human beings bear God’s image and must be respected for what each person is. Therefore, no external description of one’s being, whether based on race, ethnicity, gender or sexual orientation, can properly be used as the basis for either rejection or discrimination.”

        Quite frankly I think Bishop Spong is a far better representation of christanity than the hate spewed around here.

        Rob

        • Bill

          Robert,

          It is not the “external description” of a the human being that is being debated here. It is the perversion of homosexuality and the antagonistic relationship to God. As for your reference to Bishop Spong, his credibility was destroyed with me when he decided that his knowledge regarding homosexuality was better than God’s. This would not be the first time ,in the history of the world, that a creature deemed itself greater than its creator, And we know the consequences of that.

          Lastly, if you feel that Spong is a better ambassador for Christianity than those who participate here, that is your right. However,Spong’s approach overlooks two critical components of Christianity. The first is that he a respecter of the person and is only capable of seeing the carnal. The second premise, is God can see the soul,as well as the presence of sin(homosexuality),and has judged the unrepentant to eternal condemnation. Two important details Spong obviously omitted, or is unaware of. The enemy prowls about like a lion waiting to devour the unsuspecting, twisting lies to become like truth,Christians are instructed to be as innocent as doves,but wise as serpents.

  • MaryofAz

    I am so sick of the gay issue constantly being interjected into everything INCLUDING OUR SCHOOLS. Do I hate gays? Of course not, but this hyper-fixation on everyone’s sexuality is nauseating. I have watched this gay pride pervade into society for decades, attempting to make homosexuality normal. Well, it’s not. But what you do with your body is not only none of my business but I would really rather not ever hear about it anyway. A civil contract or something binding to protect the surviving partner just doesn’t seem to be enough of a compromise for the homosexuals. Nope, they want it all and they will kick and scream loud enough and call people names long enough until everyone is so thoroughly sick of it they give in. The right or wrong of this seems to be irrelevant in our now secular society, it is just who is louder. The “your rights end at the tip of my nose” is no longer true in this marxist secular society.

    • Robert Smith

      From Mary: “A civil contract or something binding to protect the surviving partner just doesn’t seem to be enough of a compromise for the homosexuals”

      A compramise in equality isn’t equality.

      Rob

  • DWK333

    Whew. Dodged another one. Bad behavior does not equal a human right. Let’s move on to real issues.

  • Ray

    Let’s move on. Shall we.

    • Bill

      Ray,

      Don’t think so it is not as easy as that. There is no compromise on this issue.

      • Ray

        Since some individuals will never budge on this issue, which is sad. There’s no point in debating it. I see no problem in letting two people who love each other and want to get married, should be able to do so. The latest statistic on marriage between a man and a woman ending in divorce is higher in the U.S. than all other countries combined. Gay people are no threat to marriage, straight people are.

  • http://personallibertydigest gunner689

    Ah, poor little faggots can’t get married. What a shame.

    • Ray

      Typical response of an extreme closet case

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