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Baptist Pastor Unapologetic After Gay Rant

May 10, 2012 by  

Baptist Pastor Unapologetic After Gay Rant
BBCFNC.ORG
Sean Harris delivered a passionate sermon in Fayetteville, N.C.

Baptist Pastor Sean Harris is unapologetic for the remarks he made during a sermon that was a part of the Vote For Marriage NC campaign, a movement encouraging voters in North Carolina to vote against gay marriage.

Harris, who has become known as the Amendment 1 pastor, said:

So your little son starts to act a little girlish when he is 4 years old and instead of squashing that like a cockroach and saying, “Man up, son, get that dress off you and get outside and dig a ditch, because that is what boys do,” you get out the camera and you start taking pictures of Johnny acting like a female and then you upload it to YouTube and everybody laughs about it. And the next thing you know, this dude, this kid is acting out childhood fantasies that should have been squashed.

Can I make it any clearer? Dads, the second you see your son dropping the limp wrist, you walk over there and crack that wrist. Man up. Give him a good punch. OK? You are not going to act like that. You were made by God to be a male and you are going to be a male.

And when your daughter starts acting too butch, you rein her in. And you say, “Oh, no, sweetheart. You can play sports. Play them to the glory of God. But sometimes you are going to act like a girl and walk like a girl and talk like a girl and smell like a girl, and that means you are going to be beautiful. You are going to be attractive. You are going to dress yourself up.

Harris has been the subject of scorn since that sermon. The liberal media have made the preacher out to be an advocate of child abuse and gay bullying.

Those who think his message was too violent have sent him death threats. Others have protested outside of the Berean Baptist Church, Harris’ congregation. Police are still patrolling and protecting the area.

The mainstream media have expected an apology, but they have not received it.

Harris recently appeared on CNN’s “Anderson Cooper 360.”

“I was telling them in strong words that were not careful. What did I learn this week? Be more careful with your words,” said Harris.

He said he would have used the word “straighten” instead of “crack.”

“It’s amazing how ‘punch’ has been equated with inciting violence against gay youth. That’s not what I meant.”

When CNN correspondent David Mattingly asked “what exactly” he meant, Harris said: “A shove, an affirmation. You see coaches give their players a good punch, a good slug. It’s a way of affirming the gender distinctions between a male and a female. I was apologizing for my failure to say the right thing, to be more careful. …I don’t even believe there are such thing as gay children. …I don’t think I need to apologize for preaching to my people what the word of God says. That’s my responsibility.”

Mattingly said: “I heard a few ‘Amens’ on that recording.”

Harris replied: “Yeah, because they knew what I meant.”

Harris is not alone in his stance on gay marriage. North Carolina became the 31st State to add an amendment on marriage to its constitution. Vote For Marriage NC, the group with which Berean Baptist Church was aligned, raised more than $1 million.

The Rev. Mark Harris, president of the Baptist State Convention of North Carolina, said: “The involvement of the local churches across this state was absolutely the turning point.”

Minnesota, Maine, Maryland and Washington will be voting on gay marriage rights in November.

Bryan Nash

Staff writer Bryan Nash has devoted much of his life to searching for the truth behind the lies that the masses never question. He is currently pursuing a Master's of Divinity and is the author of The Messiah's Misfits, Things Unseen and The Backpack Guide to Surviving the University. He has also been a regular contributor to the magazine Biblical Insights.

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  • FreedomFighter

    Harris is not alone in his stance on gay marriage. North Carolina became the 31st State to add an amendment on marriage to its constitution. Vote For Marriage NC, the group with which Berean Baptist Church was aligned, raised more than $1 million.

    Sanity begins to return to America.

    Gays have been around since recorded time and probably b4 then, that still does not change the fact Marriage is for a man an woman, not Joe and Fred, or Norma and Stella.

    Laus Deo
    Semper Fi

    • Robert Smith

      As far as government is concerned marriage is a CIVIL contract between two people, NOT a religious thing in America. Religion isn’t allowed.

      Tell us Freedom, how has your life changed because some gays married each other?

      Is there ANY rational reason that doesn’t impact heterosexuals to ban gay marriage? For example if you say they can’t breed neither can a post menopausal woman… You wanna be the one who says she can’t marry someone she loves?

      Rob

      • Gary L

        Robert, In a society where everything is acceptable except morality, you can count on the self-destruction of that society. That is where we are heading now.

      • Jimbo

        Robert Smith: What do you mean “religion isn’t allowed?” This nation was founded by those seeking religious freedom. Good grief, what a non-historical view.
        Tolerance is the last virtue of a degenerate society.

      • Doc Sarvis

        Jimbo,
        We didn’t used to tollerate having women vote, inter-racial marriage, equal rights for all races, etc. Are you saying that those things should not be tollerated?

      • Butch

        Yr comparison is ignorant and weak. A woman COULD have been able to have a child previously until of course , she became meno pausal. Yr just trying to make often refuted and stupid arguments to justify sodomites marrying each other when marriage is a Christian concept and Christianity rejects the perverted decadent lifestyle of man with man and woman with woman.

      • Doc Sarvis

        Butch, marriage is a uniion in most if not all religons. It is not just a “Christian concept” as you state.

      • Karolyn

        “Marriage is a Christian concept.” Really? IF the Bible is correct, then the first marriage between Adam and Eve was not Christian, since Christ came much later.

        Marriage in early Rome was a civil matter and had nothing to do with church or government.

        http://www2.hu-berlin.de/sexology/ATLAS_EN/html/history_of_marriage_in_western.html

      • Steve E

        Robert, I think your Dad did not correct you when you were young and your wrist went limp. If your Dad did correct you, you would know that being queer is an abomination.

      • Peace Warrior

        I agree with you wholeheartedly. Morality cannot be legislated. When they begin legislating morality, tyranny in its worst form is most certainly the end result. All these constitutionalists should know better. Morality is more about how you treat others, how you conduct your life and what you do for your brethren, and it is not about who you love and embrace in your personal life as your partner/spouse.

      • Nancy in Nebraska

        Marriage IS the union between a man and a woman! I am tired of degenerates taking nice words and changing the definition of them! Gay means happy, cheerful, lighthearted! The goal of Satan is to twist everything around, to make good bad and bad good. He is convincing everyone that what is right is wrong and what is wrong is right. You KNOW the truth! Are you going to let him trick you? Make a choice! What path will you take?

      • Robert Smith

        Jimbo bleats: “Robert Smith: What do you mean “religion isn’t allowed?”

        Even atheists can marry in America. It’s a CIVIL contract, not a religious one.

        So, still no reasons to deny same sex merriage without America caving into the special right wing interests.

        BTW, marriage as an instuttion is much older than christanity. Why???? Weren’t Joe and Mary married? ;-) And they were certainly around before that Christ kid.

        Rob

      • Scott

        The problem is that gay rights present a grave threat to religious freedom. Religious freedom and gay rights cannot coexist.
        My Heavenly Father instituted marriage before any culture or society or civilization, and later stated in no uncertain terms that homosexuality is wrong.
        Modern US culture declares that homosexuality is ok, same-sex-marriage is ok, and if you disagree, then there is a phalanx of organizations that will seek to either change your mind or decimate your livelihood.
        If two dudes “get married” somewhere in the nation, it affects me. It revokes my freedom of religion, in that I am no longer allowed to respectfully object to that counterfeit marriage. I am no longer allowed to practice my faith by not pretending that the counterfeit is equivalent to the real thing.

      • Doc Sarvis

        Scott,
        Gays have certain rights here in America and there is still religious freedom. Gays have rights in other countries that still have religious freedom.

      • Nancy in Nebraska

        Homosexuals already have the same rights as everyone else! They want “special” rights. Do we all get to decide what rights we want? Because if we do, I can assure you that mine won’t be the same as theirs.

      • TML

        Nancy in Nebraska says, “Homosexuals already have the same rights as everyone else! They want “special” rights.”

        Scott says, “The problem is that gay rights present a grave threat to religious freedom. Religious freedom and gay rights cannot coexist.”

        The problem with this line of thinking is that it presumes that anything that is allowed in the country which is against your religion is therefore a threat to your religion. You are putting the cart before the horse. You can not impose your personal moral conviction upon others. Protection of individual rights, even to sin (in your opinion), should not be construed to be “special rights”.

        Scott says, “Modern US culture declares that homosexuality is ok, same-sex-marriage is ok, and if you disagree, then there is a phalanx of organizations that will seek to either change your mind or decimate your livelihood.”

        Not necessarily… conceding that you have no right to dictate the lives and actions of two consenting adults does not in anyway default that you must therefore agree with it or think that it is morally right.

        Scott says, “If two dudes “get married” somewhere in the nation, it affects me. It revokes my freedom of religion, in that I am no longer allowed to respectfully object to that counterfeit marriage. I am no longer allowed to practice my faith by not pretending that the counterfeit is equivalent to the real thing.”

        It does not affect you in that way. You are free to practice your religion and subjective personal morality however you see fit, so long as it does not trespass on the equal rights of others. Who says you can not ‘respectfully’ object in matters of opinion? Who says you have to ‘pretend that the counterfeit is equivalent to the real thing’ in your own personal life? The problem is when you try to forcefully impose that religious belief upon others through government law.

      • http://PersonalLiberty Alondra

        Robert Smith, the rational reason is that this nation was built on the Judeo-Christians values and principals which are laid down for the humanity in the God’s word, not allah’s – “One Nation under GOD” and “In GOD We Trust”.

        The MARRIAGE is the God’s work, HIS creation and not men’s, government’s or judges’. And God’s definition of MARRIAGE is ONE MAN and ONE WOMAN:

        1) God Created MAN and WOMAN for man (not man and man or woman and woman)
        “God created man in His own image; in the image of God He created him; MALE and FEMALE He created them.” (Genesis 1:27-28)
        “The LORD God Said: ‘It is not good that man should be alone; I will make him a helper comparable to him.’” (Genesis 2:18)
        And the helper, which God created for MAN by separating femininity from Adam’s masculinity, was a WOMAN.
        God created male and female (Adam & Eve) one for other and not two males (Adam & Steve) or two females (Amanda & Eve).

        2) God strengthened marriage by joining/bonding MAN and WOMAN not only spiritually, but physically/sexually as well.
        “Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh. And they were both naked, the MAN and his WIFE, and were not shamed.” (Genesis 2:24-25)
        Robert, MAN breaks his bond with his parents and bonds/cleaves with his WIFE and not with husband. “MAN and his WIFE” “both naked” become ONE FLESH by GOD’s WAY, NOT by world’s way.
        Husband and wife no longer two distinguish persons, but one unit.

        3) God blessed marriage only between MAN and WOMAN – HETEROSEXUAL couple and NOT HOMOSEXUAL couple.
        “God created male and female He created them. Then God blessed them, and God said to them, ‘Be fruitful and multiply’” (Genesis 1:27-28)
        Only HETEROSEXUAL couple can produce offspring – be “fruitful” and “multiply”.

        4) Marriage is God’s creation and is the bedrock institution of society, and must not be redefined.
        Jesus Christ said: “Therefore what God has joined together let not man separate.” (Mathew 19:4-6)

        Robert, Even atheists now the FACT that ONE MAN and ONE WOMAN are ONE unit, because they believe that Natural Law has the meaning. The same sex “marriage” has none meaning and NEVER will. Marriage means the unit of ONE MALE and ONE FEMALE.

        Sane conclusion: There is no moral or logical ground to redefining marriage, which is ONE MAN and ONE WOMAN. Morality comes from reality. And reality comes from morality.
        If HOMOSEXUALS want to have their pervert sexual relations, it’s their choice. But they MUST NOT request others to accept their sinful life style.

        And you, liberals, wrapping yourselves into compassionate, carrying and good-doers robes with one purpose – to hide your evil intent to spreading your immorality.

      • Charles Grimes

        First: Marriage in gthe US is not just a civil contract otherwise Pastors and Priests would not be allowed to marry a couple.

        Second How has your life changed?

        The Natural Law of God designes sex to be used with Him in the creating of replacement humans to fulfill His command to go forth and MULYIPLY. Man and woman give a child its body, but God gives it its life and soul. For this reason to throw that life back into God’s face is a great and extreme evil. God in His wisdom realized that one male and one female united by vows to God provided the best posibility for children to be brought up as God intended. Therefore He Prohibited use of sex outside the marriage bond. For that reason any sex that abrogates this bond is unlawful and evil because it violates the design of sex instituted by God. Therefore homosexuality, fornication, masturbation, adultry, and,all forms of positive birth control designed to prevent babies is evil. If the Natural Law allowed unlimited homosexuality, masturbation and positive birth control, the Natural Law would be allowing mankind to commit suicide since no more children would end man’s existence in 50-75 years. I think that is damage don’t you?

        Third, If a woman is incapable of carrying a baby and does not tell her intended before the marriage, the marriage will be declared null and void because having babies is so central to any marriage contract. If he knows before hand and accepts this condition before the marriage and it can be proven, the marriage will stand.

      • 45caliber

        Doc:

        You are right. Marriage is part of most if not all religions. And in all of them it is between a man and a woman.

      • Robert Smith

        Here is a real diaper load from Scott: “revokes my freedom of religion, in that I am no longer allowed to respectfully object to that counterfeit marriage. I am no longer allowed to practice my faith by not pretending that the counterfeit is equivalent to the real thing.”

        So, your “argument” is that catholics religion is corrupted when non-catholics get a divorce? In the past if I ate meat on Friday their religion was corrupted?

        If I eat pork are the Jewish folks going to be corrupted and have their religion fall apart?

        No Scott. YOUR religion is YOUR religion. Others have different beliefs and in America you can’t use your religion as an excuse for hate and a device to run the lives of others.

        Rob

      • Robert Smith

        Posted: “The Natural Law of God designes sex to be used with Him in the creating of replacement humans to fulfill His command to go forth and MULYIPLY.”

        Then catholic priests are the ultimate perverts because they have agreed to NOT breed (presumibly to protect the assets of the church).

        Funny how money trumps religion, even in religion.

        Rob

      • TML

        Alondra says, “the rational reason is that this nation was built on the Judeo-Christians values and principals”

        Incorrect.

        “the following treaty was sent to the floor of the Senate, June 7, 1797, where it was read aloud in its entirety and unanimously approved.”
        “Art. 11. … the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion;..” – Treaty of Tripoli

        Alondra says, “…in the God’s word, not allah’s…”

        Allah is one of over 90 names for ‘God’ in Islam, just as Judaism has 72 different names for ‘God’.

        As for the rest of your convictions… such definition can is said within Judeo/Christian beliefs. Yet, Hinduism mythic stories have portrayed homosexual experience as natural and joyful. Do you then seek to make your religious morals as law, against the will of others, thereby destroying freedom of religion in favor of your own? This is not the American way.

        Charles Grimes says, “First: Marriage in gthe US is not just a civil contract otherwise Pastors and Priests would not be allowed to marry a couple”

        Just because a marriage is performed by a priest or pastor doesn’t exclude it from being a civil contract. A marriage license is issued, and carries with it other legal aspects, even when it comes to divorce. It is a civil contract

      • Robert Smith

        From 45: “You are right. Marriage is part of most if not all religions. And in all of them it is between a man and a woman.”

        Why are atheists allowed to marry in America? BECAUSE IT IS A CIVIL CONTRACT.

        Many Pagan groups have sanctified same sex merriages, just as Bishop Spong (he calls himself christian as many around here do) has done.

        Quite frankly I think it’s those on the right are simply looking for an excuse to hate and divide America. Check out Nixon’s “Southern Stratigy.” It’s still in play today. How does it feel being a pawn for the right?

        Rob

      • http://PersonalLiberty Alondra

        Karolyn, I just wondering when you’ll STOP to expose your liberal ignorance and stupidity?
        Clarification: To be ignorant means not to know. To be stupid – refusing to know.

        Karolyn, at least you know that “the first marriage between Adam and Eve was not Christian, since Christ came much later.” Bravo, Karolyn. It’s correct.
        But who says that “Marriage is a Christian concept.”

        In the TRUE Christian Church every pastor/preacher will tell you that the MARRIAGE is God’s “concept”.
        First God created MAN. Then “The LORD God Said: ‘It is not good that man should be alone; I will make him a helper comparable to him.’”
        And the helper, which “the LORD God” created for MAN, was a WOMAN.

        Karolyn, read Genesis, the first book of the BIBLE, chapter 1 & 2. And you will find that MARRIAGE is God’s creation and His definition of MARRIAGE is: The joined/bonded unit of ONE MAN and ONE WOMAN.

        Genesis is the first book of the five books of Torah, which was revealed to Moses by God at Mount Sinai around 1380 BCE.
        Karolyn, I think that you do not know that Torah is a part of the BIBLE. In the BIBLE it listed as Five Books Of Moses.
        Karolyn, educate yourself, read BIBLE. It gives knowledge and WISDOM.

      • Karolyn

        Alondra – I need no educating by you. I have had plenty of time in 65 years to formulate my own opinions. Why are you so worried about what other people do?

      • Doc Sarvis

        45calib.
        There are Christian marriage ceromonies in other countries that do allow homosexuals to marry.

      • JUKEBOX

        All of this is a covert attempt at population control, much the same as war obtains the same result. If you don’t believe that this an abomination as it says in the Bible, I say go for it, but as for me, there is no way I will support gay marriage. Abortion is also a population control method, and it is just as wrong.

      • http://PersonalLiberty Alondra

        TML,
        1) Each time you lefty come with the myth that USA not Christian country. It was Christians and still. The vast majority of the Founders were Christians. This country was built on the Judeo-Christians values and principals which are laid down for the humanity in the God’s Word by Christians. Do you like that or not.
        To prove your assertion you cited a doomed and hopeless example, not mention unique on the subject.
        Frank Lambert, Professor of History, explains that the assurances in Article 11 were “intended to allay the fears of the Muslim state … John Adams and the Senate made clear that the pact was between two sovereign states, not between two religious powers.”
        It’s like obaMao assuring muslims that he is not in the war with islam, but he still killing them. TML, If you do not now yet, it calls DIPLOMACY.
        In 1800, during the presidential election, the Federalists charged that deist Thomas Jefferson was unfit to lead a “CHRISTIAN NATION.”
        The first Chief Justice of the U.S. Supreme Court, John Jay, stated in 1784: “The Bible is the best of all books, for it is the word of God and teaches us the way to be happy in this world and in the next. Continue therefore to read it and to regulate your life by its precepts”
        Jay believed that the most effective way of ensuring world peace was through spreading of the Christian Gospel. In a letter addressed to Pennsylvania House of Representatives member John Murray he wrote: “Providence has given to our people the choice of their rulers, and it is the duty, as well as the privilege and interest, of OUR CHRISTIAN NATION to select and prefer Christians for their rulers.”
        “You do well to wish to learn our arts and ways of life and, above all, the religion of Jesus Christ. These will make you a greater and happier people than you are. Congress will do everything they can to assist you in this wise intention.” George Washington (from his speech to the Delaware Indian Chiefs on May 12, 1779)
        “Of all the dispositions and habits which lead to political prosperity, religion and morality are indispensable supports.” George Washington (Address . . . Preparatory to His Declination, 1796, pp. 22-23) Religion he is talking about is Christianity.
        “It is impossible to rightly govern a nation without God and the Bible”. – George Washington, the 1st President
        “The Christian religion is, above all the religions that ever prevailed or existed in ancient or modern times, the religion of wisdom, virtue, equity and humanity, let the Blackguard Paine say what he will.” – John Adams, the 2nd President and 1st VP

        2) “God” is not name. God is a supernatural immortal being/deity, Who has the names such as Elyon (“Most High God”); El Shaddai (“God Almighty”); El `Olam (“Everlasting God”); El Hai (“Living God”); El Ro’i (“God of Seeing”); El Elohe Israel (“God of Israel”); El Gibbor (“God of Strength”); Shalom (“Peace”) and others.
        The same regarding islamic allah.

        3) The Hindu law books are heterosexual in nature. And according to the Hindu law code of Manu Smriti homosexuality is punishable crime. Punishments include fingers cut.
        But it does not mean that Hindu do not practice homosexuality. As any religion Hindus have pervert too.
        A more recent survey of more than 10,000 persons by the National Center for Health Statistics indicates that homosexuals and bisexuals combined amount to approximately 1.5 percent of the population.
        According to the Dutch survey (2002), only 1.8% of the males surveyed considered themselves to be homosexuals; 1.3% considered themselves to be bisexuals.

        4) Who is destroying your freedom of religion? I do not care if you are hindu or buddist or mahhomedian or satanist. I Just want that the 1.8-2.3% of population STOP hysterically demand to accept their hideously revolting and disgust perversion, which is dishonoring any human.

        “You SHALL NOT LIE WITH A MALE AS WITH A WOMAN; it is an ABOMINATION/ detestable…But YOU SHALL KEEP MY STATUTES and MY RULES and DO NONE of these abominations, either the native or the stranger, who sojourns among you…So KEEP MY charge NEVER to practice ANY of these ABOMINABLE customs, that were practiced before you, and never to make yourselves unclean by them: I am the LORD your GOD.” (Leviticus 18:22-30)
        “Do you not know that unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? DO NOT BE DECEIVED: neither the SEXUALLY IMMORAL, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men WHO PRACTICE HOMOSEXUALITY…will inherit the kingdom of God.” (1Cor.6:9)
        Oh, I am hearing you called me HOMOPHOBE. Oh, YES, I am a PROUD HOMOPHOBE and PROUD BIGOT.
        I am a Christian and I am following Christ’s theology, not the men’s nor your hindu theology.

        5) The American way is grounded on God’s value and principals, do you like that or not.

      • http://PersonalLiberty Alondra

        Karolyn, your opinions should be based on the FACTS and not on your fantasy or DISTORTED facts.
        Karolyn, I do not worry about what other people do. But I am worry when people spread the ignorance.
        And you should not be so angry, but be content that you learned the truth.
        Do not “…boast in your arrogance. All such boasting is evil.” (James 4:16)
        “…lean not unto your own understanding … Be not wise in your own eyes…” (Proverbs 3)

    • TML

      Marriage in the context of state and federal government is a civil matter. Imposition to exclude such a civil union between consenting adults under the pretense of personal religious morality is tyrannical to the concept of personal liberty and equal right of each individual citizen. Laws which forbid same-sex marriage are mutually exclusive to the concept of natural (or “God-given”) rights… even if that right is to sin in a way that does not injure others directly physically or financially.

    • Michael

      Indeed, but today’s queers have become the protected ones and straights are the unruly agressors. It is only going to get worse as Obama and the other progressives give queers more “rights”.

      • JUKEBOX

        Obama is probably covering himself for the time when he comes out of the closet.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1443371258 Tbark Knives

    While i dont agree wiht some of the ideas he has ,he has the right idea , I have nothing against Gay’s personaly I believe what someone does is between them an God but I will Not have it crammed down my throat , Just like the homo’s dont want my beliefs an religeon crammed down their throat , I didnt write My Bible But I do read it an try my best to Obey what it says , I treat everyone with Kindness until the situation calls for somthing else . Marriege is pure an Holy Union started by God in spacific instruction , we either Obey Him or we dont period ,that is the difference with having a relationship with God thru Christ ,an Not having one because sin has seperated you from God .

    • Robert Smith

      Tbark says: “. Marriege is pure an Holy Union started by God in spacific instruction , we either Obey Him or we dont period ,that is the difference with having a relationship with God thru Christ ,an Not having one because sin has seperated you from God .”

      Nope. There are other gods. How do I know? Well, if you look at YOUR god’s ten commandments he proclaims that none of those other gods should be before him if you want to believe and follow him.

      What about all those other people who are into other gods that DO permit same sex merriage? MOF, there are some christian clergy that have no problems with same sex mmerriage. Bishop Spong comes to mind first, and paleeze don’t tell me he’s not christioan. He says he’s christian too. Who am I to believe? One side is hateful, bigotted, and denies the love that a same sex couple may have, and the other is loving respectful.

      Which bunch of christians are right? The hateful ones, or the loving ones?

      Rob

      • Nancy in Nebraska

        The “other gods” have a name. It is satan.

      • James

        The ‘other gods’ you reference can be a sporting event, the TV, or your car. For example you may want to polish your car, and watch a basketball game instead of going to Church or reading the Bible. It does not mean there are other Gods superior to or equal to God, it is just what you do to push God out of your life.

      • Kid

        Behaviour is a matter of FREE WILL!!! In the book of Leviticus God’s word says that for a man to be with a man or woman to be with a woman is DETESTABLE UNTO THE LORD!!! WHY, BECAUSE HE DID NOT MAKE US THAT WAY. OTHERWISE THE EARTH WOULD HAVE A POPULATION OF ZERO, NADA NOBODY!!!! WE AS GOD FEARING, BELIEVEING IN THE END TIMES THAT ARE HERE AS WE SPEAK, ARE TO HATE THE SIN BUT LOVE THE SINNER. WHAT YOU DO BEHIND YOUR CLOSED DOORS IS FINE WITH ME, BUT WHEN MY GRANDCHILDREN HAVE TO SEE MAN KISSING A MAN OR WOMEN DOING THE SAME AND FEELING EACH OTHER UP AND THEY ASK, WHY ARE THEY DOING THAT, I HAVE TO SAY, BECAUSE THEY ARE TWISTED DISOBEDIENT, REBELIOUS, REPROBATE, HAVING NO SENSE OF SPIRIT BUT ONLY LUST IN THEIR HEARTS KINDS OF ANIMALISTIC PEOPLE!!!! AS FAR AS MARRIAGE, WHEN TJHE VOWS ARE TAKEN, AND THE ONE PRSIDING SAYS WHAT SO EBER GOD HAS JOINED LET MAN NOT PUT USUNDER, WHAT DO YOU THINK THAT MEANS??? ARE DO YOU GET THE PRESIDER TO LEAVE THAT PART OUT?? EVEN ANIMALS DON’T DO THESE UN-NATURAL THINGS HOW IS IT THAT PEOPLE THINK THEY CAN GET AWAY WITH IT. THE BIBLE SAYS DO NOT BE DECEIVED, GOD WILL NOT BE MOCKED!!! GAY HELL, YOU FOLKS AIN’T EVEN HAPPY. MULTIPLE SEX PARTNERS. THE LAWYERS ARE LOVING EVERY SECOND OF IT. THESE HOMO MARRIAGES DO NOT MAKE THE LONG HAUL. FOR A LITTLE WHILE, BUT THEN 1 GETS TIRED OF PLAYING THE ROLE OF THE WOMEN AND WANTS TO BE THE MAN OR VICE VERSA. i ALSO DO NOT BELIEVE ADOPTION IS A HEALTHY WAY TO BRING UP CHILDREN IN A FREAKED OUT HOME. WHAT IS A CHILD IN THIS KIND OF CONFUSION GOING TO LEARN. ANYTHING GOES??? WELL, IT DON’T!!! YOU SAY IT IS GENETICS. I SAY IT IS #1 ENVIRONMENT, #2 CHOICE,PERIOD. IF YOU HAVE THE PLUMBING AS A MAN AND CAN FUNCTION SEXUALLY AS A MAN, THEN YOU CAN DO IT WITH A WOMAN. LESBIANS USE TOYS, SO WHY NOT THE REAL THING WITH A MAN?? YOU ARE JUST SICK, AND THE PREZ IS SICK. HE IS THE OBAMANTION OF DESOLATION WHO HAS COME TO KILL, STEAL AND DESTROY THIS NATION AND EVERYTHING IT HAS STOOD FOR. GIVEN ANOTHER 4 YEARS IN THE WH, HE AND HIS MONEY WASTING(TAXPAYER MONEY) WIFE WILL HAVE US IN BREAD LINES, SOUP KITCHENS, AND FEMA CAMPS. IF YOU REALLY WANT TO SEE WHAT IS GOING ON, GO TO YOUTUBE AND LOOKUP, ESOTERIC AGENDA, AGENDA 21, AND THE GEORGIA STONEHENGE. THIS WILL OPEN YOUR EYES. THE AARP HAS PUT UP 1 MILLION$$$ FOR AIDING ELDERLY HOMOSEXUAL FOLKS WHO HAVE BEEN ABANDONED BY THEIR MATES, AND THEY HAVE NO CHILDREN, AND THEY ARE DYING ALONE. DO YOU HEAR ME ON THAT. THIS IS WHAT MARRIAGE IS ABOUT, HAVING A CAREING HUSBAND AND WIFE, WHO HAVE CHILDREN, THAT’S CALLED A FAMILY, AND WHEN THEY GET OLD THEY HAVE GRANDCHILDREN TO PRIDE THEMSELVES IN. TO LOVE THEM AND NEVER LEAVE THEM TO DIE ALONE, BUT LIVING IN JOY. YOU ARE NOT GOING TO HAVE THAT. WHY, BECAUSE YOU ARE SELFISH, FLESHLY, LUSTFUL, ARROGANT, LOVERS OF THE FLESH, HATERS OF GOD, SUBJECTS TO THE GREAT DECEIVER, THE GREAT LIAR, THE DESTROYER OF LIVES, HOPE, JOY, HAPPINESS, PEACE. I KNOW LOTS OF HETEROS THAT NEVER GET MARRIED THEY JUST LIVE TOGETHER. WOULD THAT BE SO BAD. BUT NO YOU GOTTA MAKE US THE BAD GUYS AND MAKE US CHOKE ON YOUR FILTH. IN THE END, IT IS YOU THAT WILL CHOKE. I HAVE NOT ANOTHER MINUTE TO WASTE ON THE SUBJECT BECAUSE IT IS SO REPULSIVE TO 90% OF ALL HUMAN BEINGS THAT WE HAVE TO PUT UP WITH A BUNCH OF WHINNY QUEENS AND KINGS LIKE YOU. TRULY, THE EARTH WOULD BE BETTER OF IF NATURAL SELECTION WOULD GIVE YOU ALL AIDS. IT IS A SHAME THAT SOME HETEROS RUN ACROSS SOME OF YOU AND GET IT OR GET IT FROM SOMEONE THAT HAS BEEN WITH YOU OR GET IT FROM USING NEEDLES INFECTED FROM THE DISEASE. YOU ARE A SCOURGE ON THIS LAND AND ON THIS SOCIETY, AND ALL I CAN DO IS PRAY THAT YOU WILL CHANGE, COME TO SEE WHAT YOU ARE AND JOIN THE REAL WORLD AND LEAVE YOUR LIFESTYLE TO BECOME REAL MEN AND WOMEN PRODUCING REAL FAMILIES WITH TRUE ATTRIBUTES NOT THE FAKES THAT YOU ARE NOW. GOD BLESS AND HELP YOU. GOD HELP AND SAVE AMERICA WHERE WE HAVE FAILED YOU. WE KNOW YOUR HAND WILL REACH AND DESTROY US BECAUSE OF OUR DISOBEDIENCE AND FOR ALLOWING THIS TYPE OF RAW ABANDONMENT TO PREVAIL, BUT FORGIVE THEM FOR THEIR IGNORANCE KEEPS THEM FROM KNOWING YOU ARE HOLY GOD AND LEADS THEM TO THEIR DESTRUCTION. LET IT BE SO!!!

      • Karolyn

        Kid – WOW is all I can say. You poor hateful person. Here’s some interesting reading on the subject, but it might be too hard for you to understand.
        http://www.religioustolerance.org/hom_marj_l1.htm

  • eddie47d

    Pastor Sean Harris is doing the work of the devil in telling parents to beat the gay out of their kids. Of coarse he didn’t mean what he said because he got exposed. Maybe he should be the one locked in the closet until he can be a little more civilized. Then we can have a coming out party for him!

    • FreedomFighter

      “the Bible identifies an epidemic of homosexuality and its approval by society as a sign of a collapsing society.

      The bottom line is that homosexuality is a sin, and as such, it represents rebellion against God. There are no excuses or explanations that can convert it into something good and acceptable, any more that can be the case with adultery, pedophilia, or bestiality.

      The good news is that there is hope for homosexuals, and that hope is the indwelling power of the Holy Spirit that comes when a person puts faith in Jesus as Lord and Savior. ”

      http://www.lamblion.com/enewsletter1/new_enewsletter_template_120509.html

      Laus Deo
      Semper Fi

      • Doc Sarvis

        FreedomFighter,
        I know that there are a lot of homosexuals and homosexual couples that put their faith in Jesus.

      • FreedomFighter

        I will pray for them Doc

        Laus Deo
        Semper Fi

      • Robert Smith

        Hey Freedom, rather than prey for others why not prey for understanding for yourself?

        Maybe your god wants to find out if you are using his words for love or hate.

        If it’s love I imagine he will approve if he’s a good god. If it’s hate then it’s a brutal and bad god. I think it’s that simple.

        What’s for you, Freedom? Love or hate?

        Rob

      • FreedomFighter

        For you Robert:


        The bottom line is that homosexuality is a sin, and as such, it represents rebellion against God. There are no excuses or explanations that can convert it into something good and acceptable, any more that can be the case with adultery, pedophilia, or bestiality.

        Robert find GOD, repent your sins, save your soul, its between you and God, I dont have to approve of your sin, nor will I.

        Laus Deo
        Semper Fi

  • Robert Benitez

    I’m with the Pastor. faggs are a danger to any society. They hurt and murder children.
    They have no sense of value. They don’t know between Right and wrong. (Isa. 5:20) “Woe unto them that call evil gooed, and good evil; that put darkness for light and light for darkness… We are in trouble in this country. Most of our polticans with the negro president are faggs. Pray that the Lord of Glory Jesus Christ brings judgment upon all these faggs and maybe those that remain will be able to see the Truth.
    Read The Franklin Scandle. Our government has been invovled of kidnapping children and you never see them again. There are still at it. Christians wake up and preach the Truth.

    • Doc Sarvis

      There are more hurt and murdered children by heterosexuals than homosexuals. Hurting and murdering people is a character flaw NOT linked to sexual orientation.

      • Butch

        Stop using that flawed ignorant argument that heterosexual men and women that cannot have children should not be allowed to marry. Are they still men and women? Then shut up, sodomite.

      • Doc Sarvis

        Butch, I’m just pointing out what Robert B. seems to adhere to.

      • FreedomFighter

        Gays make 2% of the population, as a percentage gay pedofiles are extremly prolific.

        You always see the rich old Queen with the very very young man,

        Laus Deo
        Semper Fi

    • Karolyn

      Yeah, you sound like a REALLY goo Christian! NOT!

      • Robert Benitez

        Christians speak the Truth. We have too. The world won’t understand us because we will be judged someday by our Creator. In the beginning GOD created the woman for the man to become one and prosper. If there would have been two of the same, can you think beyond the box of deceit? Then, there would not have been such thing called grandparents.
        Faggs and lesbians will never have children naturally.

      • Doc Sarvis

        Robert B.
        So men and women who can not have children are not allowed to marry? That is awful.

    • kathleen

      Gay people don’t murder our children you narrow minded fool murderers murder children.I think you perhaps are in the closest yourself and hiding behind lies and hate, comeout of the closest we promise to accept and love you for who you are

    • Robert Smith

      Robert confuses pedophiles and priests with gays: “They hurt and murder children.”

      Absolutely false Robert.

      Rob

  • Doc Sarvis

    Pastor Harris is among those stuck in the past. People with the same mindset held onto the idea that women should not vote, that inter-racial marriages were wrong, that women should not serve in the military, etc. If we look at the issue rationally there is NO reason that two loving devoted adults, of the same or opposite sexes, should not marry and have the same standing in our society as everyone else.

    In North Carolina, the man who wrote the Amendment to the State Constitution acknowledged that, if passed it would be repealed in the not too distant future.

    • CJ

      Doc… NEWS FLASH!! The Bible is stuck in the past. The Biblical law doesn’t change, it is the same yesterday, today and tomorrow! The only “change” is when humans find the error of their (mis)interpretations and change, or correct them.

      • Doc Sarvis

        CJ
        Let’s just look at BANNED things in Leviticus alone:
        eating pork 11:7
        cotton/polyester blends 19:19
        associating with women who are having their periods 15:19-20
        And there’s so much more to chose from.

      • Robert Smith

        I haven’t seen any right wingers picketing McDonalds for serving cheesburgers.

        If they were thumping their entire bibles they’d be out there just as much as they are with guys like Fred Phelps.

        Rob

      • FreedomFighter

        Both Doc and Rob are miss representing the Bible, common, miss representing scripture wont get you anywhere.

        Laus Deo
        Semper Fi

  • Karolyn

    BS! People are who they are! A a couple of old friends of mine knew they were different from the time they were little (and they were not molested). They are happy being who they are despite what small-minded people have to say.

    • Butch

      How do you know they weren’t molested? Were you with them their whole lives??? Then shut up. The weak-minded person is the one who wants to CHANGE the institution of marriage simply because 1% of the population wants to degrade themselves w/ someone of the same gender.

      • Karolyn

        Butch – “NO! YOU shut up! Must we be childish? Actually, my friends are inelligent and educated enough to admit to molestation if it had happened. My gay male friend has four brothers who are all straight and had a “Father Knows Best” middle class New England life as a kid. They are who they are, and why should you care whether they marry or not? It’s none of your business!

  • http://albertmaslar.wordpress.com albertmaslar

    The intrinsic beauty of human marriage is that it results in a face-to-face expression of love along with providing for continuation of the human race, the creation of another human being, as opposed to the methods of the animal kingdom in which it is generally expressed front to rear…and that is what the homosexual expression emulates, after having received the blessings of the nogods residing at the Whitehouse.

    Albert Maslar

    • Doc Sarvis

      So men and women who can not have children are not allowed to marry? That is awful.

      • ringgo1

        That is NOT what he posted.

      • Doc Sarvis

        Ringgo1
        He said;”… the creation of another human being…”

    • Karolyn

      Are you telling us that married heteros don’t do it doggie style or anally? Uh, I think you’re wrong!

      • ringgo1

        Do you know that to be true because of personal experience, or…? Read the post again.

  • Tim L.

    Christian love and charity just abounds from the good pastor, doesn’t it. These Christians have so much hatred.

    • Robert Benitez

      What you talking about hatred. Yous are the ones that have hate in your hearts for the love of the Truth. What yous call good is bad for all. Its what you call perversion. Its unnatural.
      Even nature teaches between right and wrong. GOD always condemns immorality. It was an abomination to HIS EYES. You will never see the Truth until you suffer, then you wil call upon the GOD of GLORY for help. I hope you will beable to reach that point, because you will eventually perish in your sins. “All men have been appointed to die and than the Judgment.

    • Karolyn

      He looks like a drill sergeant too. Mr. macho man!

  • cawmun cents

    Ah,,,,there you have it.
    The battle is brought by lawyers.A class action suit is needed.So Democrats will bring it.
    The battle here is for acceptance of deviation.
    If you accept one form of deviation,then how long can it be before other forms of deviation come up for your tolerant viewing pleasure?
    People and animals getting married.
    Adults and children getting married.
    People and inanimate objects getting married.
    Soon,everyone is going to champion their own form of deviation.
    After marriage,what other institutions will come under fire?
    Marriage is the very first covenant between God and mankind,its very early on in scriptural context.
    But when lawyers get ahold of something,can the acronym FUBAR be far behind?
    Look what they have done to the Constitution,Its as if it doesnt even carry weight or merit anymore.Now the deviates want to co-opt the very first covenant between God and mankind,as far as biblical scripture is concerned.They want to make it deviate from design.
    That is what our nation has come to.A deviation from its design.When you deviate from the original design,all things cease to function correctly.Is it any wonder that we face destruction?
    Our way of life as Americans is being stymied by socialism.
    Our way of thought is being stymied by radicals in the media/academia circles.
    Our foundation of covenants with our creator is being torn out from under us.
    Our system of finances has been broken,likely beyond repair.
    Our businesses are bogged down by regulatory malaise.
    Our children feel entitled to lifes perks free of the need to work for them.
    And yet we are told that it isnt personal,just trying to give rights to all who deserve them.
    Sorry folks,but I take all these things personally.
    Somewhere,sometime,someone is going to have to take a stand.When they do,the war of ideas is about to get ugly.
    If this is progress(yes this is a shot at progressives),you can ram it where the sun dont shine.You can take your deviate behavior and do the same.But I guess you thrive where there is no light.How quickly the eternal night comes upon you.
    When darkness falls on you America,how deep and long will that darkness be?
    You have become the Babylon of legend.
    Prophecy was written specifically for you.
    People will marvel at how quickly you plummet from the heights which you attained.
    It is written.So shall it be done.
    I find it sad,yet ironic that the very thing which you choose to ignore is going to be your downfall.I am talking to the progressives again.Yep…..you think you can ignore God and get away with it.What a really bad end you have in store for yourselves.You are a rebel,and take pride in breaking all the rules.
    Your pride is so great that you make deviation seem normal.
    We’ll see how that works out for you.
    The preacher here would have done you all a favor had he punched you in the nose,and told you how ignorant you are.
    But that wouldnt be politically prudent now would it?
    So you will have to wait to receive your blows from God himself.
    But dont worry,since you are fighting from the dark,you will see the punches coming,right?

    -CC.

    • Doc Sarvis

      CC
      Sure sounds like you want to go back to when parents arranged marriages, to when there could not be inter-racial marriages. Nobody here, but you, has suggested adults getting married to children or animals or anything other than another consenting committed adult. You are promoting a false premise.

      • cawmun cents

        Progressives=Mike Tyson
        God=Buster Douglas
        You wont see it coming and neither will media/academia.
        You will think it is just another easy triumph.
        When you wake up in a place darker than the one you kept yourself in,your first reaction will likely be:
        What happened?
        Business as usual right up until….pow!
        Down goes Tyson.
        But we were the champions of the world,you will say.
        Nope.
        You just thought you were undefeatable,unsinkable,unbeatable.
        My what a lesson you need to learn.
        You are arrogant and proud.
        You are the newest craze.
        You are the fad of today.
        You are all these things,yes…..but you are ripe for a thumping.
        You melon needs to be checked.
        The seeds of your destruction are inside,and you wont even spit them out as you consume yourself.
        You will be glued to the canvas.
        Measured and tattooed,right on your chin.(tweet,tweet….can you here the boids choiping?)
        Cheers!
        -CC.

      • Doc Sarvis

        I am glad that God loves us all, homosexual and heterosexual. I am glad to stand before my God and acknowledge my support for loving consenting adults who love each other (heterosexual and homosexual). Love in our world is to be supported not denegrated. I am glad that God stands by me in that.

      • Doc Sarvis

        cawmen cents,
        My God has NO equal. If your God is equal to ANYONE named Buster than I will take my God anyday.

      • cawmun cents

        Well it would appear that there is a diference in your idea of analogy and mine.-CC.

    • Karolyn

      Oh, please cc. Using that common extreme ploy just doesn’t cut it. The only constant is change. Accept it or stay stuck in the past.

      • CJ

        Not to defend CC, but your comment about ‘being stuck’ is exactly what the Christian God claims to be… the same yesterday, today and tomorrow. There is no ‘adjusting’ for new ideals or understandings. Only humans do that as they relaize the ignorance of their past ways through INTELLEGENT research and WISDOM.

      • CJ

        And yes, INTELLIGENT was intentionally misspelled… for those who would like to point out the splinter in my eye, before removing the log from theirs.

        CJ

    • Karolyn

      cc – Not everyone is ignoring God. I just have a different view of God, and you can’t prove me wrong, especially using the Bible to do it, since the Bible is a book written by man just like any book written today that man has written. And there are those who write today who are say they are writing with guidance from “God.” It cannot be proven that the Bible is infallible. It is just a matter of belief and nothing more.

      • cawmun cents

        Fe fi fo,fo fi fo…fe fe fo fi,thats Mike Tysons phone number.
        Call him up and ask him what its like to meet your Buster Douglas.
        Then get back to me.
        Cheers!
        -CC.

      • Doc Sarvis

        cc,
        Your posts seem to be intended for Sports Illustrated’s site. That is at SI.com

    • Nancy in Nebraska

      CC, I’ve nothing to add. You said it all and I agree!

    • Robert Smith

      cawmun says: “Soon,everyone is going to champion their own form of deviation.”

      Yes! In a religion that says “go forth and multiply” the management doesn’t.

      Seems like the ultimate deviation to me.

      Rob

    • Robert Smith

      WRONG again… Big time this time. You don’t even have your own alleged “religion” correct cc.

      The first 4 “covinants” from your god all relate to how you are supposed to bow before him and yield your power to him.

      The rest are about stealing, killing, etc.

      There is no mention about marriage until the end and it says you ain’t supposed to want your neighbor’s wife.

      See below for the first four.

      Rob

      The Ten Commandments (Exodus 20:2-17 NKJV)
      1 “I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. You shall have no other gods before Me.
      2 “You shall not make for yourself a carved image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; you shall not bow down to them nor serve them. For I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children to the third and fourth generations of those who hate Me, but showing mercy to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My Commandments.
      3 “You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain, for the Lord will not hold him guiltless who takes His name in vain.
      4 “Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days you shall labor and do all your work, but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates. For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.

      • cawmun cents

        Obviously you neglected to read Genesis,and went straight to another book.
        Within the first three chapters of the bible is Gods covenant of marriage.You are caught up in the legalistic aspect,not the obvious one of design.So where do you go?Why to the books of law,where else?But you didnt check the preamble…….
        But what do I know?
        Apparently very little.
        But just a tad bit more than Smith.
        -CC.

      • Robert Smith

        So, are we to concllde that the ten commandments don’t count anymore?

        Rob

      • cawmun cents

        You have already concluded that you are smarter than God.
        That is the conclusion I find obvious.
        -CC.

    • cawmun cents

      My thoughts are merely this….if you can make one form of deviate behavior legal in the Constitutional context,then what of other forms of deviate behavior which come to light as”rights”afterward,will find the same argument plausible?
      Answer me that one Doc.
      -CC.

  • Karolyn

    I have known gay people who have fought who they were for a majority of their adult lives only to give in because they had to be authentic to who they really are. It’s not very cofortable living a life that’s a lie. There are numerous stories of men and women married for long periods of time who have kids but sooner or later have to be honest.

    • Mark-Edward

      So, Karolyn, would you say alcoholism and drug addiction are “right” and should be legally protected because “that’s who those people are”? An addictive personalilty is an inborn thing, right? So society should provide for these people who “give in” to “who they are”? What about child predators who struggle for their whole adult life, and finally “give in” to “be honest” about “who they are”? Perversion is perversion. Self-control is the virtuous high-road that we should all strive for. Instead, you promote people being “authentic” and giving in to thier base compulsive inner drives. The hypocricy is amazing. How do you differentiate between one type of “urge” and another?

      • Karolyn

        There is a huge difference in being who you are and mental illness and disease. I am a drug addict and alcoholic who has been clean and sober for 30 years. Alcoholism and drug addiction are classified as disease; however, I believe they are the result of society’s affect on certain types of people. It’s not up to me to tell anybody who or what they are. It is up to the indvidual.

      • eddie47d

        Who rapes women Mark-Edwards? HETEROSEXUALS yet it use to be a macho thing to do so. Are you part of the rape and pillage crowd who allowed those things to happen in war time and excuse it as “the spoils of war”? Another thing is that very few Homosexuals molest children that is by far done by Heterosexuals. Your mind is clouded by hatred and your own excuse making instead of the reality of the world.

      • Robert Smith

        Hey Mark… ” What about child predators who struggle for their whole adult life, and finally “give in” to “be honest” about “who they are”? ”

        An addict is harming themselves. If Society treats it like sickness then they don’t have to steal, sell their bodies, or any of the other nasty stuff folks who are sick this way have to live.

        On the other hand a pedophile involves ANOTHER BORN PERSON in their perversion who (because of age) can NOT give consent for the acts committed upon them.

        That is the difference between an addict dealing with drugs and a pedophile.

        It is society that forces an addict to steal to support what is otherwise a PERSONAL matter.

        Rob

      • Tim L.

        Mark, I think most educated people know that homosexuality is determined by a person’s genetics. It is not a choice, as the ignorant homophobes would have you believe.

    • Nancy in Nebraska

      Feeling as if you are a homosexual is not a sin. Acting on it and having homosexual sex is. I think that if a person has those urges, they should abstain just as you abstain from alcohol and drugs. You KNOW that you shouldnt use drugs and alcohol because you are an addict. But you could just as easily stay stoned and say “I can’t help it. I’m an addict”. There is a difference between doing what you want and doing what is right.

      • CJ

        Then what about the verse that says you are guilty of sin by just thinking about it?

      • Nancy in Nebraska

        Perhaps fantasizing about having sex with someone is counted as a sin. Whereas feeling as if you were born in the wrong body is not.

  • Mark-Edward

    In America, “marriage” has been hijacked by the statutory psuedo-law written by lawyers, and is strictly defined as a THREE PARTY contract between the two people to be married and the STATE. Since the state issues the permission slip – i.e. “license” – THEY are the ones who control its definition and terms. This means they can rewrite the idea, concept, and terms of “marriage”. Hence the proposition that we can “vote” on this issue. If you get a marriage license, you deserve whatever they re-write it to mean.

    The idea of “marriage” existed long before the All-mighty State. So how did the State wrestle control over it to the point where they can redefine it? In reality, this should be yet one more piece of clear evidence that the “State” is an artificial reality that is separate from what we living people know and experience. Wake up. Choose not to live in this fantasy land where THEY control your every thought and action. Withdraw your consent and stop supporting these fiction writers in your state legislature. The “State” – i.e. “government” – is very much like The Twilight Zone. They have created a fictional world where they are able to milk you for every penny you are worth, and do it “legally”. Legal kidnapping, legal extortion, legal theft, legal trespass, legal crimes every time they write a new statute that expempts their actions but creates a crime from something you used to think was a right.

    I think this pastor should ignore his detractors, stop defending himself, and keep speaking his mind. More people need to speak their mind. Don’t suggest violence or hate, but speak loud and clear about morality, and speak publicly. Let the homosexual nazi tyrants expose their hateful hearts when they get violent and explosive against people who exercise their right to free speach. Then we will see them for what they are – hateful, spiteful, self-loathing, insecure, government worshipping, violent communists.

    Homosexuality is an evil ugly disgusting perverted abusive practice that is only fit for dark closets between equally sick-minded individuals in private. Don’t bring your filthy lifestyle into my sphere of cognition. I don’t want to see it or know about it. Keep it to yourself and you won’t get the backlash from society. If you want to bring your nastyness into the open, then “man up” and accept the criticism and insults.

    • Nancy in Nebraska

      I definitely agree with your last paragraph. The whole business of “gay marriage” is to try and force the rest of us to accept homosexuality as normal and OK. They are not happy with being allowed to sin openly. They want to drag our entire society down with them! satan is working through them to corrupt us all. The bible speaks plainly on this subject and we should not be fooled by satan into accepting this evil as good. Look at what happened to Sodom and Gommorah. Will that be the future of America?

      • Karolyn

        Sodom and Gomorrah went down primarily because of paganism.

        • http://boblivingstonpl.wordpress.com Bob Livingston

          Dear Karolyn,

          You write: “Sodom and Gomorrah went down primarily because of paganism.” Not so.

          20 And the Lord said, “ The outcry of Sodom and Gomorrah is indeed great, and their sin is exceedingly grave. 21 I will go down now, and see if they have done entirely according to its outcry, which has come to Me; and if not, I will know.”–Gen. 18:20-21

          Then, Abraham tried to get God to spare the city, but 10 righteous people could not be found. –Gen. 18:32.

          1 Now the two angels came to Sodom in the evening as Lot was sitting in the gate of Sodom. When Lot saw them, he rose to meet them and [a]bowed down with his face to the ground. 2 And he said, “Now behold, my lords, please turn aside into your servant’s house, and spend the night, and wash your feet; then you may rise early and go on your way.” They said however, “No, but we shall spend the night in the square.” 3 Yet he urged them strongly, so they turned aside to him and entered his house; and he prepared a feast for them, and baked unleavened bread, and they ate. 4 Before they lay down, the men of the city, the men of Sodom, surrounded the house, both young and old, all the people [b]from every quarter; 5 and they called to Lot and said to him, “ Where are the men who came to you tonight? Bring them out to us that we may [c]have relations with them.” 6 But Lot went out to them at the doorway, and shut the door behind him, 7 and said, “Please, my brothers, do not act wickedly. 8 Now behold, I have two daughters who have not [d]had relations with man; please let me bring them out to you, and do to them [e]whatever you like; only do nothing to these men, inasmuch as they have come under the [f]shelter of my roof.” 9 But they said, “Stand aside.” Furthermore, they said, “This one came in [g]as an alien, and already he is acting like a judge; now we will treat you worse than them.” So they pressed hard against [h]Lot and came near to break the door. 10 But the men reached out their [i]hands and brought Lot into the house [j]with them, and shut the door. 11 They [k]struck the men who were at the doorway of the house with blindness, both small and great, so that they wearied themselves trying to find the doorway.

          12 Then the two men said to Lot, “Whom else have you here? A son-in-law, and your sons, and your daughters, and whomever you have in the city, bring them out of the place; 13 for we are about to destroy this place, because their outcry has become so great before the Lord that the Lord has sent us to destroy it.” –Gen. 19:1-12 (NASB)

          Jeremiah 23:14
          “Also among the prophets of Jerusalem I have seen a horrible thing: The committing of adultery and walking in falsehood; And they strengthen the hands of evildoers, So that no one has turned back from his wickedness. All of them have become to Me like Sodom, And her inhabitants like Gomorrah. (NASB)

          2 Peter 2:6

          6 and if He condemned the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah to destruction by reducing them to ashes, having made them an example to those who would live ungodly lives thereafter; (NASB)

          Jude 1:7

          7 just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the cities around them, since they in the same way as these indulged in gross immorality and went after [a]strange flesh, are exhibited as an [b] example in undergoing the punishment of eternal fire. (NASB)

          Best wishes,
          Bob

      • Karolyn

        OK, Bob. Yes, of course there was the debauchery, but it was not homosexuality. The men of the city were just immoral and wated to defile anybodyand everybody. I am not that well-versed on the Bible; however I had read an interpretation some time ago that talked of the paganism. Unfortunately, I don’t have that link right now. If I find it later, I will post it.

        • http://boblivingstonpl.wordpress.com Bob Livingston

          Dear Karolyn,

          You evidently did not read the scripture.

          Best wishes,
          Bob

        • BetTal

          OH. So since you read this intrepretation, then it must be correct. Hello, anyone can misintrepret things or twist them to mean what they want them to mean. The bible is quite plain about this subject. If you really want to know the right intrepretation read the bible and pray and ask God to intrepret it for you. It really works.

      • Robert Smith

        Posted: “8 Now behold, I have two daughters who have not [d]had relations with man; please let me bring them out to you, and do to them [e]whatever you like; only do nothing to these men, inasmuch as they have come under the [f]shelter of my roof.”

        Some kinda guy that Lot… Willing to pimp his virgin daughters out to a mob.

        A fine example of christanity, but I don’t think the rest of humanity agrees.

        Rob

      • JimH

        Rob, Lot was BC. Christians are followers of Christ.
        You’re right Lot wasn’t a Christian. To early to be.

      • Nancy in Nebraska

        Karolyn, where do you think the term “sodomy” came from?

  • Thinking About

    Do you think the pastor has really given his heart and life to God for my Jesus loved everybody. It must be the devil who is speaking through him. He does have some serious issues and needs some time on his knees. Perhaps his congregation can get the devil out as he thinks parents can get the gay out of their children.

    • Nancy in Nebraska

      Jesus said, “Go, and sin no more”.

  • Jonathan

    Homosexuality is a sin as declared in both the Old and New Testaments. What few realize is that Homosexuality is also a judgment by the Lord God Almighty on a nation that has rejected Him as creator and sovereign God. Romans 1:18 -32 states, “For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness; because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them. For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, and changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things. Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves: who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen. For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: and likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet. And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient; being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers, backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful: who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.”
    In a nutshell, because men reject God, God gives them up to their unnatural lusts so that they may sin further, and thus destroy themselves. We, as a nation, are being judged; and soon we, as a nation, will fall, scattered to the winds by our own sin. You may not agree: I don’t care. You may call me a bigot: I don’t care. Sin is sin, whether the smallest of white lies to the vilest of mass murders, from the serial adultery of heterosexuals to homosexuality. Any sin is sufficient to condemn you to eternal death. In fact, you are condemned already with no mediator or counsel to defend you. Only in turning to Christ Jesus may you escape the horrible fate which you so justly deserve. I woe the day that God’s wrath is visited upon this nation, and I call for us to turn from our wickedness and seek God’s mercy. I ask God’s forgiveness for the great and despicable sin of this nation.

    • CJ

      A sin is a sin. There is NO ranking of one being worse than another… except in people’s eyes. God’s claims of right or wrong are absolute, regardless of the religion your god is founded on. There are no shades of gray about them. Only humans make one more ‘acceptable’ than another.

      • cawmun cents

        How can you be arrogant and not be proud?
        Pride goeth before a fall.
        Boasting what you are going to do in front of God is prideful,and arrogant.
        What else do you have to read into that?
        So if I boast that I dont need His rules to live by anymore,then where does that leave me?
        I would vote for the pride thing there,wouldnt you?
        I may not know much,but I got that one down.
        If I say to God that His word doesnt mean what it says it means,then I am boasting that I dont need Him around anymore,right?
        So when He leaves me to my own bed that I made,and I get sick and cant get well again,then is it His fault or mine?
        There is plenty of blame to go around but if I was prideful and arrogant,then wouldnt most of that blame fall on Moi?
        Just asking.
        -CC.

      • CJ

        CC, what did you do, randomly pick my comment to put your irrelevant 2 cents in under? Your post has nothing to do with my comment. I’m not judging any actions. I’m not boasting or showing arrogance, so I conclude your comment is rhetorical… and unrelated.

      • cawmun cents

        Point taken.
        No sense beating a dead mule.
        Cheers!
        -CC.

      • cawmun cents

        Well many of these defenders of their chosen rights,are reluctant to supply anyone with a spot to reply.Have you noticed that?
        I did not mean to denigrate you or cast dispersion on your position,rather I tried to post as close as I could to the original reply/posts of the liberal agitators who I was attempting to retort to.Since they leave no one with an ability to reply(out of sheer cowardice I imagine),I grabbed the nearest spot.It happend to be where you left the ability to reply.
        My apologies if you were offended by that choice.
        Keep up the good work.
        -CC.

    • Nancy in Nebraska

      Well said, Jonathan! The truth is the truth!

  • Jonathon Galt

    Rather than change the meaning of a word, just create a new word. We shouldn’t be forced to use a dictionary when conversing just to see what the current meaning of words are, or have to spend more time explaining how we intend others to interpret the words we use. Maybe this is what the Biblical story of Babel was about? And I’m not a religious person.

    • Nancy in Nebraska

      They don’t want to create a new word. They want to take ours and twist it and corrupt it and make it evil. They want to force us to accept it as normal. They want to corrupt everyone! This is the nature of evil.

      • Karolyn

        I would never in a million years describe any of the gay people I have beenfriends with as “evil.”

      • cawmun cents

        Let me make this rather odd bit of humor a part of everyones day.
        This is a off color joke.It may offend some,but let me make a point of its context:

        A madame is astonished to see a young boy standing at her bordello door,carrying a jar of coins.”Can I help you sonny?”,she asks.The boy says,”I want a whore with V-D.”
        She then asks him why he would ever want such a thing,and he replies.”If I have a whore with V-D,then I will have V-D,which means my little sister will get V-D,which means my dad will get V-D,which means my mom will get V-D,which means the mailman will get V-D,and he’s the guy who ran over my dog!”

        Somebody is angry that their agenda is being ignored,so they want to impose it on everyone.Not only that but they are willing for everyone to have to suffer for them to make it happen.
        How do we have to suffer you ask?
        To have something imposed on you against your will is sufferage,whether you see it as being that way or not.You can argue that with me if you so choose,but when there comes a time when it happens to you,you wont have a leg to stand on and complain.

        The boy wants to lash out at who he perceives has done him wrong.
        So he makes a point of dragging his whole family into the fight against what we reason would be their will.His family is obviously dysfunctional,which works to his benefit actually.
        There is of course the incestual aspect of this joke,which lends itself to scrutiny.
        But if you only concentrate on that part,and exclude the other points of alarm,you dont get the whole picture.
        The point here is not the sexuality or deviancy of the participants,but the tendency to make revenge all encompassing.The boy was willing to make his whole family pay for what he thought was the mailman’s crime.
        This is the mentality at work in our nation today.
        It is a mentality that says that everyone should have to pay for any discretion against someone else.
        Unless it involves a voting block.Then it is acceptable to ignore wrongdoing so that a segment of society will be agreeable in the next election.
        If you see things as being contrary to what I have stated,then just ask yourself this question.
        Why isnt this left to a state vote instead of being pushed as all encompassing?
        32 states have come to a vote that says no to homosexuals being considered married.
        the others are up for grabs….where is the miscommunication?
        -CC.

      • Karolyn

        But, CC, you are not being forced into anything. You don’t have to accept or condone anything. You don’t even have to recognize that they exist. How on earth does two people being married affect your life at all? And there are enough heterosexual people in the world to keep us going. I don’t think you have to worry about homosexuals taking over anything. Why?? Why?? Why?? I just cannot fathom why? Unless someone is hurting someone else, they should be able to do anything they want. Isn’t that what libertarians want? Personally, I don’t understand the need for them to marry except for benefits. What is the difference between “civil union” and “marriage.” They’re just words!

    • eddie47d

      Gay people live fairly normal lives Nancy and work in the same jobs as the people around you. Calling people evil like you do doesn’t make them evil. Their being gay doesn’t make you gay and it doesn’t rub off if they happen to bump into you. Calm down!

  • CJ

    And now the collective ignorance of the group shows. Those who use unrelated excuses to justify the acts, either way, are why this issue can not be resolved. Even many current religious traditions are not founded on true religious ideals, but some rant here to continue the flawed theology, and speaking of ‘rant,’ Bryan showed his bias by using it in his title. I doubt the preacher considered it a ‘rant’ as he was in full sense of what he was saying.

  • http://gravatar.com/bychoosing Jay

    In the immortal words of Rodney King “can’t we all just get along?” How nice it would be if we could. Unfortunately, it’s not always that simple.

    Can Christianity co-exist with homosexuality? Yes, I believe so.

    Can Christianity co-exist with the homosexual AGENDA? I vote a resounding NO!

    Most of us assume that the homosexual AGENDA wants equality. Like those of the Civil Rights movement, who believed it fell within the government’s authority to guarantee all citizens equal protection of the law, to promote an environment that outlawed racial segregation in schools, at the workplace, by facilities that served the general public, and in voter registration.

    This is not the agenda of the homosexual movement. It is not equality that they so rabidly pursue. It is domination! It is to the exclusion of the dominate voice in this country that inherently judges their lifestyle as immoral and perverse.

    Let us think about it critically for a moment. Through the corridors of antiquities, both Christian and non-Christian philosophers and historians alike, attest to the historical facts of the Bible. Even our modern day artifacts point to the infallible recordings in the Bible of history past. Most importantly, however, the Bible, itself, forcefully declares its supremacy over all others stating it is the inspired Word of God.

    For those who subscribe to the Bible’s infallible nature – meaning, it is flawless, contains no errors, and have no need of revisions – cannot co-sign those things that are called according to the Bible “indecent acts”, “shameful lusts”, “unnatural and abnormal relations”, “an abomination”, and a “wicked thing”.

    Allow me to ask you to decide, if such a targeted group can peacefully co-exist with an ideology that calls them all of the above? Can they? The answer: no, they cannot.

    No equality can be gained if the above ideology remains a dominate presence. One of the two ideologies (i.e., Christianity or the AGENDA) must become silenced for the other to thrive. For those who believe in such, isn’t that the fundamental premise of Darwinism?

    Make no mistake about it, homosexuality is a targeted group in the Bible, right along with cheats, drunkards, liars, foul-mouths, extortionists, robbers, and any other habitual sin(1 Corinthians 6:10). A major problem arises when one of these groups collectively starts engaging in political paybacks, intimidating the public into silence, and using the Law to legitimatize their way of life.

    Of course, there are many religious people among us who have abandoned Judeo-Christian beliefs and are pandering a message of “inclusivity” throughout the Body of Christ.

    Many well-meaning people have fallen prey to the AGENDA because of very real pressures to be “politically correct”, because of their lack of understanding the Word of God, and/or because of the impending political and social doom that results if one should take a firm stand in opposition.

    Let us look at a real life case study of the AGENDA at work in Canada:

    In 2004, Canada signed into law hate crime Bill C-250. This law includes the phrase “sexual orientation” in the groups protected against the spread of hate propaganda.

    At that time, Dr. Janet Epp Buckingham, director of Law & Public Policy of the Evangelical Fellowship of Canada (EFC) stated “without a clear definition of what is criminal hatred, it is ambiguous what public statements will be considered criminal.”

    Bruce Clemenger, president of EFC said, “While opposing the promotion of hatred against anyone, we are deeply concerned about the chilling effect this legislation may have on the legitimate expression of religious belief.”1

    Fast forward to April 20, 2010, a Baptist street preacher, Dale McAlpine, was arrested and charged with causing “harassment, alarm or distress” after a homosexual police officer overheard him reciting a number of “sins” referred to in the Bible, including blasphemy, drunkenness, and same sex relationships.” After being approached by a passer-by and asked if homosexuality was a sin, the pastor then proceeded to explain that he believed it went against the Word of God. A third-party officer overheard this conversation and arrested the pastor. He spent seven hours in jail for sharing his belief – something most of us take for granted
    .
    Earlier this year, our own U.S. Rep. Steve King of Iowa, sent a letter to a group of Christian activists and pastors over the Hate Crimes Prevention Act of 2009 – that was signed into law late last year. In it, King states2:

    “…I believe this ‘Hate Crimes’ Act is unconstitutional and marks an unprecedented move to regulate and criminalize our thoughts.”

    “Not only will this Act create a class of people that are ‘more equal than others,’ it will hinder your ability to preach the gospel and openly teach biblical principles.”

    Either we believe the Truth and the facts that are clearly laid before us or we choose to lay aside Truth and go the way of “feelings”, “opinions”, and “error”. There is no third option.

    As not to leave on a down note, there is hope. It is the hope found in the Gospel
    message, a message that sets out to redeem the person, but transform the action through the finished works of Jesus Christ.

    http://www.canadafreepress.com/index.php/article/31352

    • Karolyn

      Food for thought:

      “Summary of opposing interpretations of the clobber passages (in the Bible):
      To many — not all — conservative members of religions that revere the Bible — primarily the Baha’i faith, Christianity, Islam, and Judaism — the Bible condemns homosexual behavior and states that, after death, persons who have been sexually active with members of the same gender will end up in Hell, not Heaven.

      Most fundamentalist and other evangelical Christians believe that because God is all powerful and hates same-sex sexual behavior, he will either:

      Change a repentant lesbian or gay who is saved into a heterosexual, or

      Help a saved lesbian or gay choose and later maintain a celibate lifestyle.
      English translations of the Bible are far more supportive of these beliefs than are the original Hebrew and Greek manuscripts.

      To many — not all — liberal/progressive believers, the Bible is silent same-sex sexual behavior within a on loving, consensual relationship or same-sex marriage. God accepts persons of all sexual orientations and approves of sex that is consensual, non-manipulative, safe and within a loving, committed relationship. Liberals and progressive have a range of beliefs concerning safe, consensual, and casual sex by heterosexuals, bisexuals, lesbians or gays.

      However the Bible condemns:

      Males raping other men. In fact, it condemns all non-consensual sex.

      One of two behaviors:
      Either men engaging in ritual sex in Pagan temples, or

      Men having sex in a woman’s bed.
      Thelogians have translated passages in Leviticus 18 and 20 both ways.

      People having sex that violates their sexual orientation — their basic nature. For example:
      Persons with a heterosexual orientation having sex with a member of the same sex.

      Lesbians or gays with a homosexual orientation having sex with a member of the opposite sex.

      Men sexually abusing children. One passage also condemns young victims of sexual molestation.

      People engaging in bestiality: having sex with non-humans, including angels.”

      There is much more info on this site regarding the subject.

      http://www.religioustolerance.org/homglance.htm

      • CJ

        You left out that the Bible considers same gender relations as unacceptable as opposite gender relations between unmarried couples. Only sex within the Holy union of MARRIAGE is acceptable. People will not change God’s mind on how to interpret His rules, but will only justify them for their own contentment.

      • Karolyn

        The marriage ceremony and or contract was created by religions and societies, not by God.

        • RichE

          Surley there isn’t a singular definition. How different is each religion and each society?

          Why is the contract called marriage? My phone contract isn’t called phone. But, if you said these pieces of paper are a phone contract I’d make certain assumptions. What assumptions am I supposed to make if you say it’s a marriage contract?

      • cawmun cents

        Marriage is a physical act,not a legal one,if you refer to what is said in the scriptures.
        It is the joining of two bodies,male and female.When one part goes into the other the two are joined together,they are married.It is,and always has,supposed to have been an exclusive arrangement betweem the man.woman,and God.
        There were no justices,lawyers,politicians,homosexuals,midwifes,racists,or any of those things in existence when Adam and Eve were joined in marriage.
        Those things have been inserted into the picture since then.
        There was no divorce court then.
        There was no judges and lawyers deciding which part of Eden was Adam’s,and which part was Eve’s.It was always community property.
        But when she decided to listen to the serpent,instead of God,they lost their paradise.
        Isnt that a clear picture of what you are doing,when you propose homosexuality should be considered as noormal legal behavior,instead of listening to God who says its deviant and therefore wrong?
        I am no Rhodes Scholar,but I think I can tell the difference between design and deviance.
        If God designs you to work one way,and you decide to go another way,then who has made the mistake?
        It is a legitimate question.
        Any takers?

        -CC.

        • RichE

          Good point about physical union, but why another word? Wouldn’t intercourse do unless marriage is a threesome between god, man and woman. How about the marriage of wine, cheese and fruit? Aren’t nuns married to the church? I’m not sure intercourse is an essential.

          Re: God’s design, any takers, try Darwin.

      • http://gravatar.com/bychoosing Jay

        Karolyn says: The marriage ceremony and or contract was created by religions and societies, not by God.

        Again, you are incorrect Karolyn.

        YHWH, performed the first marriage ceremony;

        So the LORD God caused a deep sleep to fall upon the man, and while he slept took one of his ribs and closed up its place with flesh; and the rib which the LORD God had taken from the man he made into a woman and brought her to the man.

        Then the man said, “This at last is bone of my bones and flesh of my flesh; she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man.” Therefore a man leaves his father and his mother and cleaves to his wife, and they become one flesh. And the man and his wife were both naked, and were not ashamed.

      • cawmun cents

        Did Darwin design two vaginas to go together?
        Did Darwin design two penises to go together?
        Did the Big Bang Theory happened(an infinitetly small point of energy,who knows where it came from,exploded making the entire Universe in just 15 billion or so years) and resulted in the design that two of the same sex go together by design?
        Design is exactly that.
        Do you fit two hitches together?
        No a ball is required.
        Can you fit one piece into the other as DESIGNED?
        Probably.
        So did you answer my question?
        No.
        Even if you leave God out of the equation,you still have to take design into account whether it comes from nothing and an explosion or whether God created it.
        If the animal kingdom did things thusly it would go extinct rather quickly,correct?
        So if you think we are just glorified animals then wouldnt we suffer the same fate?
        It that is your assertion then it makes no sense.
        If design is flawed,then we must ask how we came along this far as a species to begin with,right?
        I know…I ask too many questions instead of going along with the”intelligencia”on this subject,but then again,what you assume is intelligent only can be measured by those who consider themselves intelligent,right?
        Me,I am just an ordinary average guy,that considers his Creator to hold the cards when it come to smarts.
        Far be it from me to suggest that those who think they are smarter than their Creator,are the ones lacking.
        Good day Ma’am.
        -CC.

      • Karolyn

        Well, Jay, et al, It’s a moot point when one believes that the story of Adam and Eve is a myth.

    • Nancy in Nebraska

      Jay, I agree with your comments. You said “one of two ideologies (i.e. Christianity or the AGENDA) must become silenced for the other to thrive.”. That is what is happening in this country. Christianity is being silenced and erased from our country. This country was founded and dedicated to GOD. We were given GOD’S protection and his blessings. As we turn away from him our country is no longer protected and is being run by those who worship satan. We are ruled by greed and hatred. They are trying to force us to worship satan instead of GOD. Christianity must not be silenced!

    • confusedChristian

      Jay:

      I admit, I’m not as informed on the history of homosexuals and it has been a few years since I’ve done a thorough study of the bible and I apologize in advance if I’m come off as rude. I do not believe I am up to snuff on debating with you on this issue. I must say that this is a well written argument; a pleasant change from most of the ranting and overly dramatic, unsupported thoughts smeared about.

      I have a few questions, if you wouldn’t mind… I’m not certain I understand this “AGENDA” you refer to, to be honest. I’ve never particularly noticed one around me at any time but I’m willing to take on the idea of it as I don’t know every definition of the word.

      The issue I have with the whole debate here is a simple one: this is not a religious debate. Freedom of religion also means freedom FROM religion. I am a firm believer in God and I have no issue with the idea that most Christian sects have a belief system that believes that homosexuality is wrong. Here comes my issue: separation of state and church. Homosexuals aren’t (as far as I have heard) demanding that Christians renounce the Bible or God. They aren’t demanded that churches marry them. They are demanding for the legalities involved with a civil marriage to be granted to them. Only the legal rights. That is why we can vote on things because the “state” can’t decide what the “church” preaches or believes in and the “church” cannot decide what is legal in the government.

      My issue with the pastor is that he is preaching hate which is NOT a Christian value. One of the commandments speaks of loving your neighbor. He’s preaching hate and violence and sexism. A boy liking things that are considered socially normal for girls doesn’t mean that he will grow up homosexual. And beating a child, beyond illegal, also will not make him like sports more.

      One more last question for you: you appear to follow the theory that the Bible is literally the word of God and is final. How then do you feel about all the other things the Bible says are acceptable or allowable – many of which are illegal or ignored in today’s society? http://www.humanistsofutah.org/2002/WhyCantIOwnACanadian_10-02.html puts it best, I think.

      • http://gravatar.com/bychoosing Jay

        confused Christian says: The issue I have with the whole debate here is a simple one: this is not a religious debate. Freedom of religion also means freedom FROM religion.

        Dear CC: We live in a country that celebrates and protects freedom like no country on earth. Our constitution and Declaration of Independence describe and protect our life and all kinds of freedoms, from gun rights, to speech and religious rights.

        Our founding fathers, the power and inspiration guiding them was the Holy Bible. 90% of them were born again Christians and drew their power and direction from the Lord. They knew that this nation was a fought for miracle and would grow securely as long as we connected our freedom, choices and growth with the God of the Holy Bible.

        Since the 1700s our culture, traditions and boundaries have come from the Bible not the Koran or any other Holy book. Naturally, the constitution gives us freedom ‘of’ religion.
        Some misread and misconstrue what it says to mean ‘freedom from religion.’ When in contextual truth it is simply meaning that congress and the President can’t dictate a specific church denomination to control everything as our first settlers had suffered in England.

        They talked of freedom of religion as different expressions of Christianity. This wasn’t license for every cult, Islam or Satanism to have equal footing and rise up. Since the vast majority of them were devout Christians they were simply wanting to secure a freeing style of Christian worship, picking what church they wanted.

      • http://gravatar.com/bychoosing Jay

        cC says: Homosexuals aren’t (as far as I have heard) demanding that Christians renounce the Bible or God. They aren’t demanded that churches marry them. They are demanding for the legalities involved with a civil marriage to be granted to them. Only the legal rights. That is why we can vote on things because the “state” can’t decide what the “church” preaches or believes in and the “church” cannot decide what is legal in the government.

        Dear cC: “The American homosexual movement really only began in the 1940s after the Allied defeat of the Nazis. …the center of international “gay” power in the world did in fact shift from Germany to the United States after the demise of the Third Reich.

        This represented a huge setback for the “gay” movement, requiring it to begin “from scratch” as it were, since America in the 1940s was at least as family-centered as Germany had been in the 1860s.”

        —From “The Pink Swastika”

        ”[Pollster Gary Gate’s] best estimate, derived from five studies that have asked subjects about their sexual orientation, is that the nation has about 4 million adults who identify as being gay or lesbian, representing 1.7 percent of the 18-and-over population. …Gates observed that the 10% figure [often used by homosexual activists] was pulled from a non-scientific work by sexologist Alfred Kinsey, and that it was latched on to by gay activists as a useful ‘political strategy.’ …‘It was a brilliant political strategy as a figure that was large enough to ‘matter’ but hopefully not so large as to threaten the general population,’ said Gates.” Huffington Post, CBS News, LifeSiteNews

        “They exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and revered and worshiped the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen.” Romans 1:25 (NAB)

        Only in his dreams could Hitler have imagined the blatant homosexualizing of the German Wehrmacht. What Hitler could only dream of, the United States is poised to make fact, a scant sixty-seven years after fighting a costly and bloody war to defeat Hitler and the Nazis.

        I would highly recommend cC, that you read “The Pink Swastika” (4th edition 2002), by Scott Lively and Kevin Abram. The entire book can be accessed for free online. My reaction to the book was similar to Scott Lively’s reaction, “When I initially learned the truths set forth in [“The Pink Swastika”] I was first astonished and then angered.”

        Communism and Fascism (of which Nazism is a subset) are both Far Left ideologies. That is not to say that they are “like peas in a pod;” they are not—nonetheless they are both left-wing, top-down, big-government social engineering movements.

        Comparing the two is not like “apples and oranges,” but rather like comparing “oranges and tangerines.” Many of the left-wing’s “rank and file” are unaware that fascism is a left-wing doctrine, but their puppet-masters are well aware of it, and work in collusion with other Far Left doctrines—“united in hate,” as Dr. Jamie Glazov puts it.

        The reporter/author Oriana Fallaci (1929-2006), who certainly knew the Left very well, wrote in her book “The Force of Reason” (2004), “…there are moments when I curse myself for not having understood it earlier: for having let myself be fooled by the two soccer-teams for so long. …It is a long-term ruler this Left that gave birth to Mussolini then Hitler, and always maintained its bond with their disciples. This Left which has always given trouble with its excesses and ambiguities, its brutalities and duplicities….”

        An obvious place to start on the subject of homosexuality and the Nazis, is with Hitler himself. Was the Nazi leader, or Fuehrer (Führer), a homosexual? Although Hitler and the Nazi leadership went to great lengths to hide and/or destroy any incriminating evidence, the evidence that remains strongly suggests that Hitler was indeed a homosexual. At the very least, he was an extreme case of sexual dysfunction.

        As Lively and Abrams put it: “The weight of the evidence indicates that Hitler was deeply involved in a series of short and long-term homosexual relationships. Even more certain is that he knowingly and deliberately surrounded himself with practicing homosexuals from the time he was a teenager. His later public pronouncements against homosexuality were designed to hide the life-long intimacy—sexual and/or homoerotic—which he maintained with the various men he knew and accepted as homosexuals.”

        The historical sources of German fascism included an interest in Hellenic (Greek) traditions, and a fascination with the occult. Both of these interests were fueled by homosexuals, and when they merged into the Nazi movement, the homosexuals moved along with them. Before discussing Hellenism and the occult, however, it’s important to have some understanding of the difference between “Butch” and “Fem” homosexuals.

        There are a number of words used to describe various types of homosexuals: Twink, Clone, Bear, Nellie, etc., but “The Pink Swastika” uses the terms Fem and Butch, and I will stay with their lead on this for the sake of consistency. The difference between Fem and Butch homosexuals is an important one, and something that most heterosexuals are unaware of.

        Fems (Femmes) are homosexuals who are effeminate (“a woman trapped in a man’s body”), whereas Butches are ultra-masculine homosexuals. Contrary to what most “straights” think, the vast majority of homosexuals are Butch. Which means that unless they want you to know, you can seldom tell that a Butch is homosexual, as there are few, if any, tell-tale signs).

        Corey and LeRoy’s book “The Homosexual and His Society” estimated that Fems make up only 5%—15% of the homosexual culture. A recent survey taken of personal ads in homosexual newspapers observed that only 2% of them had a Fem theme—whereas 40% had a Butch theme (the rest were inconclusive).

        Most heterosexuals think “effeminate” when they hear the word “gay” or “homosexual,” but that is a foolish, even dangerous, misconception. Most homosexuals are NOT effeminate at all. Regarding Nazi Butches, “The Pink Swastika” says, “In their view, heterosexuals might be tolerated for the purpose of continuing the species, but effeminate homosexuals were considered to be subhuman and thus intolerable. …

        ….Often these men, who so hated femininity, maintained a facade of heterosexual respectability throughout their lives [in most cases marrying a woman]” (Obviously cloning would be their preferred way to procreate, but that’s a side issue.

        Lively and Abrams call the battle between the German Fem and Butch homosexuals a fight between “two irreconcilable philosophies linked by a common sexual dysfunction.”

        Nazis persecuted homosexuals to a certain extent, but it was largely a case of the Nazi
        Butches persecuting the Fems, rather than the Nazis persecuting homosexuals as a whole.

        The “grandfather” of the world’s “gay rights” movement is considered by many to be a German lawyer named Karl Heinrich Ulrichs (1825-1895).

        He advanced a theory that homosexuals were a third sex, which he called Uranians (“Uranians of the world unite!”). Ulrichs picked the word “Uranian,” because in ancient Greece homosexual activities were said to be under the protection of the Muse, Urania. Urania is also, of course, the source for the name Uranus, the seventh planet from the sun (no snide comments please, we’re all adults here).

        (Sidebar: Uranus is not the only astronomical body with homosexual connotations. Jupiter’s moon Ganymede is named after the victim of a pederastic rape by the Greek god Zeus. It is possible that the origin of the word “gay,” being used to denote a homosexual, comes from this source.

        The Roman word for Ganymede is Catamitus, which is the eponymous source of the English word “catamite,” meaning the submissive partner in a homosexual relationship. The night sky has a number of such homosexual references).

        Ulrichs’ activities opened the way for an international homosexual movement, and Germany (especially Berlin and Munich) became the movement’s decadent “Mecca” (“Come to the Cabaret, old chum”).

        After Ulrich’s death he was succeeded by the homosexual Magnus Hirschfeld. Hirschfeld (who coined the term “transvestite”), started the ISR (Institute for Sexual Research. Both Ulrich and Hirschfeld were Fem homosexuals.

        At the same time that Ulrich, and later Hirschfeld were trying to legitimize homosexuality, two seemingly unrelated strains of cultural elements were getting underway that would eventually merge and profoundly impact the Nazis—a German revival of interest in all things Hellenic (Greek), and a fascination with paganism (or the occult). Butch homosexuals were very influential in both movements.

        The interest in all things Hellenic was especially attractive to the Butch homosexual leaders in the Nazi party, who were drawn to the ideal of “an ultra-masculine, male supremacist, homoerotic warrior cult.” It is of some importance to note that Greece was not the only culture to elevate the status of homosexuality, however.

        Indeed, the German Butch homosexuals in the Nazi party were following in an ages-long global tradition of militant homosexuality and pederasty. From Rome to Babylon; from China to Borneo, homosexuality was an accepted way of life in many ancient cultures—pagan cultures.

        It is from several of these pagan cultures that the Nazis drew some of their more famous (infamous) symbols, e.g. the twin lightning bolt SS runes, the skull and crossbones (Totenkopf), and of course the swastika.

        Two of the leading lights of the German pagan movement were Guido von List (1848-1919), and Jorg Lanz von Liebenfels (1874-1954). Both of them worshipped Wotan (Odin), chief of the Norse gods, and both greatly influenced Adolf Hitler.

        (Sidebar: It is interesting to note that we all still worship at least four Norse gods every week [albeit unknowingly].

        That is: on every Wotan’s Day [Wednesday], Thor’s Day [Thursday], Tyrs [Teiws] Day [Tuesday], and Frigga’s Day [Friday]. Some folks believe that Sunday and Monday are named after Norse gods as well; while others feel that they are named for the sun and the moon. Saturday [named after Saturn] is the only day of the week that is free and clear of any Norse connection).

        Lively and Abrams believe that List was a homosexual. He has been called “the Aleister Crowley (‘The Beast’) of Vienna.” Lanz (Liebenfels) was a homosexual and misogynist of the first order, who was kicked out of the Catholic Cistercian Order “for carnal and worldly desires.” He once wrote “Nature herself has ordained women to be our slaves.”

        He flew a flag with a swastika on it over his castle, some years before Hitler swiped the idea. Personally, I agree with Colin Wilson that “interest in occultism often involves a certain immaturity.”

        I should also mention Friedrich Nietzsche (1844-1900) as being an influence on Hitler.

        Both Nietzsche and Frederick the Great (a great homosexual) were important icons to Hitler. Nietzsche’s best known quote is “God is dead,” although he came up with plenty of other zingers, including: “Become hard and show no mercy, for evil is man’s best force,” and “Nothing is true so everything is permitted!” (similar to Aleister Crowley’s axiom “Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law”). No wonder liberals love these guys.

        Anyways cC, here is just a sample of the vast unknown concerning the roots of the homosexual movement (Agenda) in our country. I would highly recommend you read “The Pink Swastika” and afterwords, if you wish, we can discuss the homosexual-agenda, you seem unable to observe!

      • Karolyn

        Jay – Is there anything in the Constitution that excludes non-Christian religions?

      • http://gravatar.com/bychoosing Jay

        Dear cC, here is the link for the free-online reading of the “Pink Swastika”. Enjoy!!!

      • http://gravatar.com/bychoosing Jay

        cC says: One more last question for you: you appear to follow the theory that the Bible is literally the word of God and is final. How then do you feel about all the other things the Bible says are acceptable or allowable – many of which are illegal or ignored in today’s society?

        Ok, fair enough. Let’s start with Slavery, for example, as this seems to be by far the most favourite attack by the left, and that, with the intention to cast dispersion, on the Word of YHWH!

        Does the Old Testament condone slavery? Absolutely not.

        The Old Testament speaks of slavery often, and lays out rules on how slaves were to be treated. This has caused some to become confused…but a basic understanding of the context for ancient near-eastern slavery shows that the Old Testament does not condone slavery. Let’s look at some common assumptions.

        Assumption #1: Regulating a behavior shows approval.

        There are 33 Bible verses (NIV) containing the word “divorce”. Divorce is specifically regulated in Scripture, but does that mean that the Bible condones divorce?

        Let’s see: I hate divorce,” says the LORD God of Israel…

        God hates divorce. Why would He give specific instructions governing it? Simple: because divorce was a fact of life. Failing to provide practical instructions on divorce would be like pretending it didn’t actually happen.

        Well, slavery was also a fact of life. Regulations for slavery should not be confused with the approval of slavery. The existence of regulations for specific behaviors is not the same as approval for those behaviors.

        However, Assumption #1 is not relevant to the issue of slavery in the Old Testament. As we’ll see, other faulty assumptions are at work:

        Assumption #2: Slavery was involuntary servitude

        Many incorrectly assume that the slavery in the Old Testament was like the modern western slavery of the 1700′s and 1800′s. Western slavery primarily benefited the rich, but Israelite slavery primarily benefited the poor.

        You see, slavery was almost always voluntary…the basic types of “enslavement” are known as self-sale, family sale, and indentured servitude. These relationships were usually initiated by the slave as a remedy for poverty.

        Poor families would sometimes sell their children as slaves. Were this situation like modern western slavery, we could justifiably condemn the practice…but the reality is that this was of great benefit to the child.

        Slavery contracts often emphasized that the slave agreed to work in exchange for economic security and personal protection. While modern western slaves were forbidden
        to own property of any kind,

        Hebrew slaves could take part in business, borrow money, and buy their own freedom…in other words, they were free to “buy out” the contract they’d made. They were also able to own property, pay betrothal monies, and pay civic fines. Slaves could appear in court as witnesses, plaintiffs, and defendants.

        Many ancient near-eastern slaves were able to buy time off as well, paying a fixed fee called a “quitrent” to their owner. This bought them a year where they didn’t have to work. The amount paid was roughly equivalent to the average annual pay of a hired worker, regardless of whether he was free or a slave.

        I’m sure you get the point, confused Christian? Perhaps not the response you were looking for; considering your agenda?

  • http://gravatar.com/bychoosing Jay

    People’s concerns about homosexuality are deeply rooted and even reflected in sacred texts. There is no mystery to this. Opposite sexes are understood and expected to be attracted to one another. When this doesn’t occur within a segment of the population, it raises fears about them.

    From Adherent.com, “1.51% of the total U.S. population identifies themselves as gay, lesbian or bisexual, or 4.3 total million Americans. These numbers are based on figures provided by a broad-based coalition of gay rights organizations and homosexual advocacy groups. The primary source cited was the The National Health and Social Life Survey (NHSLS), published in the book “The Social Organization of Sex: Sexual Practices in the United States” (1994), by Laumann, Gagnon, Michael and Michaels.” (Emphasis added)

    Those identifying themselves as gay, lesbian or bisexual are a remarkably small cohort of the U.S. population. Given the passage of 17 years since the data was published, there is no doubt a few more people who compose the gay, lesbian, bisexual and transgender population are part of this demographic. If one was to take one’s cues from the mass media, one might likely conclude that it is a much larger part of the population. It is certainly much louder.

    What concerns the majority heterosexual component of society is the aggressive way the homosexual lifestyle and agenda for same-sex marriage is being advocated. It has become a political and educational issue.

    There was a flurry of protests when Kevin Jennings was appointed to an Obama administration position as “safe schools czar” but his role in shaping national policy has been largely forgotten. According to MassResistance-org,

    Jennings “is a long-time homosexual activist who began his career in Massachusetts, and founded GLSEN (Gay Lesbian Straight Education Network), the national homosexual group that targets children in schools.”

    “Jenning’s Department of Education office received $410 million in FY 2011.

    Among other efforts, last year, Jennings helped introduce Bill 4530 in Congress that would require normalization of homosexuality, transgenderism, cross-dressing, etc., in America’s public schools.”

    I am confident in saying that the vast majority of parents of school-age children do not want this to be a part of the curriculum in our nation’s schools and want to deal with issues related to homosexuality in the home according to their religious and other beliefs.

    As the Obama administration gears up for the 2012 election, it is shedding people like Jennings who will be an embarrassment and a focal point for drawing attention to the constitutionally questionable “czars” put on the payroll in key roles. Few were vetted by Congress as is the normal process.

    Rev. Nancy Wilson, a member of President Obama’s Advisory Council on Faith-based and Neighborhood Partnerships, recently said that the Defense of Marriage Act (DOMA) should be repealed. Passed by Congress and signed into law by President Bill Clinton in 1996, the law defines marriage at the federal level as being the legal union between one man and one woman. It says that no state is required to recognize a same-sex marriage from another state.

    Using “human rights” as a cover, these pernicious attacks on the sanctity of marriage continue. It is not a human rights issue. The issue is a society based on the worldwide understanding that marriage is about procreation and any deviation from that, including polygamy, endangers society as a whole.

    This has not deterred New York’s Governor Andrew Cuomo. On May 23rd, the Wall Street Journal reported that he “is intensifying his push for gay marriage, speaking directly to lawmakers who have left the door open for supporting a bill to allow same-sex couples to marry.”

    On May 14th, in Massachusetts, the annual “Youth Pride Day” was held. Its celebration was organized by the Massachusetts Commission for GLBT Youth and other groups who recruited kids who belong to “gay clubs” in that state’s schools.

    Coming full circle back to Obama’s “czar”, Mr. Jennings, he was a teacher in Concord, Massachusetts and started “gay straight alliance clubs more than fifteen years ago.” At GLSEN conferences, young people were given “graphic homosexual handouts and paraphernalia.”

    There’s tolerance and then there is the deliberate subversion of societal norms that are vital to a healthy society. Jennings and other homosexual advocacy groups represent the latter.

    • eddie47d

      There will always be humans who want to dominate others Jay but why make the absurd statement that homosexuals want to do so and that it’s not about equality. Christians want to dominate Muslims and visa versa. Whites have throughout history have dominated blacks. Any political power like Communism or Capitalism wants to dominate those under them. Jews have dominated certain aspects of society and there are plenty of non-Jews who want to dominate them.Take a look at who is really dominating whom? Who has the real power of domination? Considering that Wall Street has dominated America, used and manipulated America, sometimes has more power than the government and can cause economic collaspe maybe you should focus on the real dangers of domination. Instead of fear mongering about homosexuals.

    • Thor

      “the deliberate subversion of societal norms” is precisely the point. The real objective is not to push ‘gay rights’ but to accomplish one thing–the dissolution of the family, which will be summarily replaced by the state. This is classic Marx/Engels. The mish-mash of anti-Christian ad hominem attacks is a smoke screen led by progressive skirmishers and conservative-baiters. Once the state assumes control of production, all personal property and rids itself of the nuclear family, it will no longer need those skirmishers and complainers. It will do with them the very same thing Stalin did with them–particularly the LGBT crowd. A nice stroll through that history might be a sobering thing for Robert, Doc and Karolyn.

      • Karolyn

        “Societal norms” are what have gotten us to where we are today, Thor. We live in a violent, greedy, selfish society.

      • Thor

        “Social norms” served well for the first 25 thousand years of community living–particularly the building strength of the nuclear family. In all that time only those societies which allowed them to erode have failed. It is ‘tearing them down’–which you seem to advocate, Karolyn–that got us to where we are today.

  • JON

    It would probably be beneficial for all involved if the Pastor were to choose another profession – OR – go back to school and relearn what Jesus was really all about and ACTUALLY follow his teachings. Apparently he forgot how to do it.

    • http://gravatar.com/bychoosing Jay

      JON says: go back to school and relearn whatJesus was really all about and ACTUALLY follow his teachings.

      Enlighten us, pastorJON, what was Jesus really all about, and what did he teach?

      • JON

        Love!

      • http://gravatar.com/bychoosing Jay

        You answer seems a tad sparse, and vague. Could you elaborate more, as it pertains to this issue?

  • JimH

    The Bible says homosexuality is wrong. Churches follow the teachings of the Bible. Church leaders and ministers teach and follow what is in the Bible. It isn’t complicated.
    Even though I can understand that gays resent being treated like a second class citizen, I also recognize that the Churches rights to teach and practice what they believe in is protected by the 1rst ammendment.(like it or not)
    Gay marriage by a Justice of the peace(secular) or a Church that believes it’s OK I can understand(not condone).
    A Church or Religion that believes it’s wrong should and under the Bill of Rights, cannot be mandated to preform those marriages.
    In the Church marriage is a Holy Sacrament, not a Constitutional right.

    • Karolyn

      I am in total agreement, Jim.

    • Doc Sarvis

      At least there are some Christian churches that do marry homosexual couples.

      • Raggs

        Doc your are a complete moronic liar… Do you personaly have evidence to back up your comment?… We are talking churches not a justice of peace….

      • Jefferson Thomas

        Correction. Your sentence would be more accurate if stated “There are groups of liars who claim to be christian who perform a ceremony they call marriage between homosexuals”.

      • Raggs

        Very correct!… And isn’t it funny that the day after oblama announced his gay fetish that he hits the road for campaign donations.

      • Karolyn

        Raggs – Whee have you been. The Episcopal church actually has gay and lesbian priests. The Unitarian Church is all-inclusive. And there are individual pastors who will do it according to their own conscience.

      • Thinking About

        Raggs you are not very informed on issues and perhaps before you start the name calling spent a few moments researching before making your decision. Also the name calling does not serve you well.

      • http://gravatar.com/bychoosing Jay

        Doc says: At least there are some Christian churches that do marry homosexual couples.

        If they do, they are not, Christian Churches Doc. Sorry…

      • http://gravatar.com/bychoosing Jay

        That is a more accurate statement, Jefferson Thomas!!!

      • Doc Sarvis

        OOO. Jay, Jeff T. and Raggs got all frothy over that one. Here’s another Christian denomination – United Church of CHRIST.

      • Raggs

        A “TRUE” Christian church will NOT condone gay marriage… just for clarification…

      • http://gravatar.com/bychoosing Jay

        Doc, you are easily mislead by labels, you poor thing you.

      • Doc Sarvis

        Raggs & Jay,
        A TRUE CHRISTIAN church will bless committed, loving, consenting adult couples in marriage whether they are homosexual or heterosexual.

      • TML

        TJ says, “There are groups of liars who claim to be christian who perform a ceremony they call marriage between homosexuals”.

        Jay, “If they do, they are not, Christian Churches Doc. Sorry…”

        Raggs says, “A “TRUE” Christian church will NOT condone gay marriage…”

        I don’t think the acceptance of homosexuality, or gay & lesbian marriages, should be an indicator of whether a church or a person is a ‘true’ Christian. You view homosexuality as a sin. Many religious people, or what you might call Christian, believe that premarital sex is a sin. Yet, should we think that someone is not a true Christian because they marry a couple that has had premarital sex, or even standing pregnant at the alter? No

        The underlying principle of the Christian faith is that we are all sinners, yet based on acts that you believe to be sinful; you exclude them as being Christian.

        Additionally… Jesus Christ never mentioned anything regarding such acts, so far as we know, and it is never mentioned in the Gospels.

        In conclusion, I think it hypocritical for a sinner (you) to say someone else is not Christian because they sin.

      • Doc Sarvis

        TML – well put.

      • Karolyn

        How on earth can someone say someone else is not Christian? How arrogant! There are different interpretations of the Bible. Just because somebody else has a different take than you and has different views than you, does not give you the right to say they are not Christian! IT IS NOT ALL BLACK AND WHITE!

      • Raggs

        Nah I don’t think so… You can twist this into whatever form that you want based on what you want to believe… Afterall this about what you want to believe isn’t it?

      • TML

        Raggs says, “Nah I don’t think so… You can twist this into whatever form that you want based on what you want to believe… Afterall this about what you want to believe isn’t it?”

        True. You can twist things so that you don’t think you are hypocritical… But that is exactly why the United States Constitution doesn’t allow laws to be created based on religious belief.

      • http://gravatar.com/bychoosing Jay

        TML says: I don’t think the acceptance of homosexuality, or gay & lesbian marriages, should be an indicator of whether a church or a person is a ‘true’ Christian. You view homosexuality as a sin. Many religious people, or what you might call Christian, believe that premarital sex is a sin. Yet, should we think that someone is not a true Christian because they marry a couple that has had premarital sex, or even standing pregnant at the alter? No

        That is a interesting approach, TML. However, in regards to a heterosexual couple who engaged in pre-marital sex, the marriage ceremony would not further endorse or confirm or encourage, their pre-marrital, sinful lifestyle, would it? As the very act of marriage, or being married, cancels-out their previous life of fornication. In fact, the marriage act itself, would actually annul their previous lifestyle. You may even argue that, by their decision and commitment to marry one another, they have in essence stopped sinning, or repented from that sin, fornication!

        Can the same be accomplished with respect to gay couples wishing to marry? If we agree, that both, fornication(pre-marital-sex) and homosexuality, are both, sinful, sins, or sinning, what then will the marriage ceremony do for the gay-couple, except, condone and confirm, or encourage their lifestyle, and that they remain in sin, having the seal of approval by the so-called Church? In this respect, no true Christian clergy, or true Christian Church would perform the ceremony, as performing said ceremony, would be anathema, and contrary to the word of God.

        Do you understand? The marriage ceremony would abolish one sin, fornication, while the same ceremony, would endorse, another, homosexuality. This cannot be; as well, this argument cannot be understood by non-Christians, who do not view; homosexuality, fornication, adultery, pedophilia, bestiality, ect…as; sinful perversions! For all who clamour for the right for homosexuals to marry, all the above sexual sins can be easily rationalized, compartmentalized, reworded, till eventually they persuade themselves, that not only are the above sexually-dysfunctional-lifestyles, normal and healthy, but that nature itself, confirms this, to be so!

        I’m sorry TML, but your argument, although clever, perhaps not as well thought out as you first assumed.

      • http://gravatar.com/bychoosing Jay

        Karolyn says: How on earth can someone say someone else is not Christian?

        Easy, only a true Christian can make that call!

      • http://gravatar.com/bychoosing Jay

        Doc says: A TRUE CHRISTIAN church will bless committed, loving, consenting adult couples in marriage whether they are homosexual or heterosexual.

        I’m afraid not, mr. Sarvis. A true Christian Church will marry and bless committed, loving, consenting adult couples in marriage, but not, if they are of the same sex! For such services. same-sex-couples wishing to marry would have to search out non-Christian, ( liberal/pagan) churches that would be more then happy to perform said ceremony. So same-sex couples need not, fret and worry, if true Christian Churches should refuse them, as there are alternate options! So what’s the fuss all about, mr. Sarvis?

      • TML

        No doubt, within the context of your own personal morality, it sounds logical… but, equating marriage with the forgiveness of one sin (fornication) is said nowhere in the scripture… it is purely a personal conviction that equates taking an oath to another human being, the same as ‘being saved in the name of Jesus Christ’ in some way.

        Marriage is a union of the flesh… and ‘We are born into sin’

        It could be said that marriage is described in the bible as to restraining oneself from promiscuity, and spreading of disease. ‘Fornication’ can be said to be anal sex, even with your own wife… as is described by Patriarch John IV of Constantinople in the 6th century who said “some men even commit the sin of arsenokoitai with their wives”, commentary on Paul’s reference to Leviticus.

        So, from another frame of reference, marriage is the acknowledgement of sins concerning the flesh

        What of transsexual people that ‘God’ created? Are they a man or a woman?
        Marriage, in the context of Christian religious doctrine is a union under God, to be the sole judge… not you.

        Jay says, “this argument cannot be understood by non-Christians, who do not view; homosexuality, fornication, adultery, pedophilia, bestiality, ect…as; sinful perversions!

        I’m sure I do understand, although adultery is not illegal even though it’s a sin, and neither is “fornication”… pedophilia and bestiality are illegal and moral perversions even from the simplest principle of liberty; consent. Homosexuality between consenting adults should likewise not be illegal, or a marriage between those two people.

        Jay says, “For all who clamour for the right for homosexuals to marry… “

        It isn’t so much the right of homosexuals to marry that I fight for… as much as it is against codifying religious personal morals into law. “Rightful liberty is the unobstructed action according to our will within limits drawn around us by the equal rights of others… I do not add within the limits of the law, because law is often the tyrants will, and always so when it violates the natural rights of the individual.” – Thomas Jefferson

        But back to the moral question… and the original point of the argument; is it not hypocritical for a sinner to say someone else is not Christian because they sin?

        • BetTal

          You make a good argument here, but what I was referring to is considered sin in God’s eyes. As for fornication, the bible says that marriage is honorable in all and the bed undefiled. As far as homosexuality, the bible says that for a man to lay with another man as he would with a woman is an abomination to God. As far as whether or not it should be law, the bible says that any nation or kingdom that forgets God will be turned into hell. We need to realize that God’s law takes presidence over man’s law. To tell a lie isn’t punishable by prison, but it is still a sin by God’s law.

  • BetTal

    You know what really gets me is that people want to accuse others of hate when all they are doing is telling the truth. I believe that shows more love than telling people what they want to hear. They will be hurt more in the long run if you lie to them and they figure out the truth later. Sin is sin. That is as plain as you can get. In the bible, many were killed for telling the truth because it is not what they wanted to hear. Maybe he could have worded it a little nicer, but the man made the right point. Jesus called them hypocrites and vipers. Are you saying that he was full of hate. I think not.

  • Raggs

    Since king oblama came out of the closet the next thing that we are going to see are faggots beating white people and getting away with it…

    • Karolyn

      Raggs – Could you have said anything more ridiculous? Actually, thinking about it, I’m sure you could.

      • Raggs

        Ok here is another one just for you…. Only a queer believes that it is ok to be a queer.
        Pretty much the same as a child molester thinks its ok to be a child molester.. So just because you believe it that doesnt make it OK.

      • Doc Sarvis

        Raggs, you are embarrassing yourself. Your statement is more than a stretch.

      • Karolyn

        The thing is, Raggs, it’s not only homosexuals who think it’s OK to be who they are, ad it’s not against the law. Simple enough.

      • 45caliber

        Actually, Raggs is correct. There really isnt’ that much difference in mental considerations between the two. In both cases, the person afflicted has the same reaction – I’m right and everyone else is wrong.

  • RichE

    Why do we need marriage? What purpose does it serve?

    • TML

      Marriage is basically a contract between two people, so it’s up to each person to decide if they need or want marriage. The governments only legitimate role should be to recognize the marriage (contract) and not undermine it by making laws that favor a religion.

      • Karolyn

        How true! One thing about marriages is that they’re easy to get in to but hard to get out of; so why even bother. Love is love and commitment is commitment. In ages past many cultures did not even have a ceremony. Actually, there are cultures even now that don’t. What makes us so special? If everyone would just live and let live, wht a wonderful world it would be.

      • RichE

        Yes, but why do we need a contract? I sign a contract with my phone company because the phone company needs a legal document in case I don’t want to be married to them.

    • 45caliber

      RichE:

      See my comment to Steve below. People tend to try to keep a contract going rather than just walking away. That is why it was originally created (before divorce actually) and why it is still important.

      • RichE

        If marriage is a contract then why can’t two or three people enter into that contract? What is marriage?

      • 45caliber

        They could originally. Now? It’s considered worse that gay marriage by many.

  • Steve J

    The problem is religion is one of man’s ways to control the masses through fear. They will tell you that homosexuality is bad and god says so, so that you will fear them because thay are not like you. I served over 25 years in the Army with brave men and women that are homosexuals and they usually are much better soldiers that some of the religious wackos that I also served with. BTW, I am a straight male that is in a long term (20 years) relationship with a wonderful woman without marriage.

    • JimH

      Steve, I thought religion was a way to get people together to worship God and learn his word. Silly me, it’s so men can control other men by fear.
      Is someone who believes in God and his word really “wacko”?
      Sometimes Gods (capital G) doesn’t coinside with ours.

      • Karolyn

        Isn’t it manipulation via fear, Jim? Christians are fearful of sinning and going to hell. That’s what the church uses to control people. People do not need religion to be good moral people. We are born good, and it’s only society that makes us what we become.

      • JimH

        Karolyn, No one said you need religion to be a good person.
        I go to church, not out of fear, but to worship God and learn his word.
        Churches can be used to educate us about Gods word. They have scholars who study scriptures and ancient writings that I don’t have the time or education to study and they pass it on to me. NO FEAR.

      • Karolyn

        Jim – We do have posters here who seem t o believe that without religion you cannot have morality. I can see that you are not one of them. However, I do believe that the early Roman Catholic Church created the Bible at Nicea in a way to control the people, and it does go on (and not just with Catholics).

      • JimH

        Hi Karolyn, What do you base that the Bible was writen to control, instead of educate people of Gods word on?
        B.i.b.l.e.- Basic instruction before leaving earth.

      • Karolyn

        Jim – The early Church was totally political, immoral and corrupt. Everybody knows that. Do you really believe they were that concerned about the people except for what they could get from them?

      • JimH

        Karolyn,”Everybody knows that” isn’t an answer. Could you be more specific?
        Since I wasn’t there I don’t know what motivated the early Church. I know what your preconcived notion wants it to be.
        When the Apoctles first went out to start the whole thing, I’m sure their motives were pure.(the very earliest)

    • 45caliber

      Steve:

      The main reason marriage began was to insure that the male stayed and took care of the female and any children they had. It still helps act that way, despite divorce. My brother married his first wife and tried his best to keep that marriage alive and going. When he moved in with the second, without marriage, he simply kicked her out without aid or care when he tired of her. She had to let him keep the kids so they could get the care (due to income) that she couldn’t provide, giving up most of her ability to see them. Was it fair to her? Not at all. That is one of the main reasons I hear today for people to not marry. “I can walk away whenever I wish. If she needs to get money to raise the kids, she can get welfare.” You are to be commended for having that relationship with your woman. Why haven’t you married her … and made the commitment to care for her and any children you might have? Obviously, she deserves it.

    • carrobin

      Research has shown that a great many people (particularly men) who fear homosexuals have deep fears of their own feminine side. They attack others because they want to destroy what’s in themselves. But very few people are totally masculine or totally feminine–women have some testosterone, men have some estrogen. It’s not a big deal either way, but many men have a problem with their macho identities. As a woman, I’ve never figured that out. If I had that kind of attitude about being a woman, I’d have died of starvation a long time ago, waiting for some big strong male to take care of me. And my gay friends have been stronger supports for me than any heterosexual guys ever were.

      • BetTal

        How incredibly stupid can you get? If homosexuality was ok, then why did God even make the woman? He made the man first, and when it was time to make a mate for the man, he made the woman. Newflash, God intends marriage between a man and a woman. How stupid does it look to see two people of the same sex getting married?

  • Raggs

    I knew that the NUTJOB liberals ( punn intended ) would come out in full force to defend their king oblama on this….

  • Karolyn

    I can’t help myself. I just have to post this link to a Daily Show video. You conservatives, should you deign to watch, just might pause and think about some of the arguments that are made against gay marriage and how ridiculous they really are.
    http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/wed-may-9-2012/endless-suffrage-2012—states–rights-edition?xrs=synd_facebook

    • FreedomFighter
    • 45caliber

      Karolyn:

      The problems with gay marriages is how you and I see them. You see them as achieving the same legal benefits that other couples have. And it is an ending for them. I see this as their starting point in an attempt to change or eliminate my religion for their benefit.

      I really have no objection to their civil unions with the same benefits my wife and I get. After all, those benefits are granted by the government and the government can include them if it so wishes. But my religion is NOT granted by the government! And I don’t want some government official to insist that government has the right to interfere with religion (despite what the 1st Amendment says) simply because someone is not religious and wants to eliminate them.

      • Karolyn

        I’ve xeen nothing about them wanting t change any religion.

      • 45caliber

        I have!

      • Robert Smith

        Tell us about it 45.

        Rob

        • BetTal

          I have to agree with this particular post. I hear that they want to call it hate if you speak against homosexuality. It doesn’t mean that I hate someone because I don’t agree with them or their lifestyle. I have friends and family that I disagree with but love dearly. The point hear is that agree or disagree with the man, he has a right to free speech which means that he can say the things he says and those who disagree should just get over it.

  • Karolyn

    One of the reasons we live in such a violent society is just because of emulatig what the pastor advocates. Little boys have to “man up,” play sports, don’t cry, be strong. Little girls have to be girly, feminine, subservient, etc. This so obviously contributes to our violent society and so much of that violence being perpetrated on women.

    • FreedomFighter

      You seem to be talking about Islam, they advocate violance toward women and condone it, nowhere have I seen it condoned in a Western society. Sorry K, just because crimes are perpetrated does not imply it is condoned, Unlike Islam that does condone violence against woment, and necrophilia too.

      Laus Deo
      Semper Fi

      • Karolyn

        FF – There are societies where men and women are totally equal, and they are not given specific roles to play. In those societies there is little to no violence. Men in our socuiety are taught to be tough. How they use their teaching is up to the individual; and, of course, different personalities have different traits. However, without learning what society demands, the person becomes truly authentic. We are all born good. Here’s a link for a site involved in studies of matriarchal societies.

        http://www.sas.upenn.edu/~psanday/

      • 45caliber

        Karolyn:

        A matriarcal society is not “totally equal”. It simply places the desires of the women above those of the men. No society is totally equal. Human nature won’t allow that. Our own society is closer to totally equal than any that has ever existed. It allows each person to achieve their maximum potential … if they wish to try for it.

      • Karolyn

        45 – I don’t know if you even checked out my link, but unfortunately she doesn’t have those societies I referred to listed on it. I do have information I use in my presentations about 4 societies in the world where men and women are equal, the people are earth-connected, and there is barely any violence. I don’t have my info here, but I know there are two in Asia and Africa. I haven’t used that info for a while and don’t remember the particulars. What I do remember is that the women are equal in governing and in the practice of their religions.

  • Raggs

    Well I guess the good news is that if states like california open their door to queer marriage all of the faggots will move there Yeah Fagofornia…

    • 45caliber

      Raggs:

      I certainly hope they do. It would raise the IQ of both states – California and the one they moved from.

      • Raggs

        :)

  • 45caliber

    A rant? It sounds more like sensible advice to me.

  • Raggs

    Oh and who is going to pay for the AIDS… I’m sure that we the taxpayer will soon be ( Free ) handouts of protection for cornholers… Hell lets just create a new welfare system to support queers based upon a “right”…

    • Doc Sarvis

      AIDS is a disease that both homosexuals and heterosexuals are subject to.

      • Raggs

        I;m not surprised that my comment flew over your head.

      • Karolyn

        I’m not surprised that I think it flew over your own head, Raggs.

    • Robert Smith

      Interesting that you bring up AIDS.

      North Carolina has an HIV infection rate of 11.6 per 100,000.

      They just passed an ammendment against same sex merrage.

      Masachussets was the first state to allow same sex merrage.

      They have an HIV infection rate of 6.5.

      Which plan offers LESS HIV infections?

      For a better look at the individual rates of infection you can to go: http://www.avert.org/usa-states-cities.htm

      Rob

  • Blah blah

    If the church does not want to allow a “religious” marriage for homosexuals, that is fine. However, the government should not limit civil marriage (and it’s various benefits/perks) to heterosexuals. They should be allowed to enter into a civil contract regardless of sexual orientation. I thought people on here valued individual choice and freedom. Seems from these comments that I was misled.

    • Raggs

      You failed to read mu post above… GO figure…

      You want a handout now exactly what I was saying.

      • Blah blah

        The rambling about AIDS? That is unrelated to what I am saying. By perks I mean tax status, claim of dependents, joining of financial assets, and legal standing in the case of separation (divorce).

        On a personal note, I don’t want a handout. I fail to see what prompts you to accuse me of such.

  • Raggs

    Raise your hand if you knew this was going to turn into yet another government funded program…..

  • Raggs

    Hell since again I have to pay for it at least let’s give this a name.. Any suggestions?…
    Prehaps FAGS FOR FREEDOM?…

    • Robert Smith

      When is the last time your church paid property tax? Isn’t that a “hand out?”

      Rob

      • JimH

        If you take advantage of a tax deduction or at tax break is that a handout?

  • Neil Swan

    Homosexuals are born that way. So the preacher should think that God made him that way.

    Neil

    • Raggs

      Really?… What the hell logic ( lack of ) is that ?
      So in other words your saying that if I was born a boy that I understood the day that I got of of diapers that I wanted to be a gurl and MOM made a mistake?… And now the whole world has to deal with me being a gurl because my MOM was confused?.. Blame this on MOM or GOD or whoever is convinced that afterall you should not even be on this planet unless you get your way.

      • Karolyn

        Cone ON Raggs. How can something natural be the mother’s fault. The way I heard it described in a book I read was that homosexual men have an extra X chromosome, and lesbians have an extra Y chromosome. Everyone starts out as female, with 2 Xs. I guess it’s not been proven, but why not?

      • Neil Swan

        The sex you are born with depends on how you are constructed from the DNA that constructs you.

        Neil

        • RichE

          Not true Niel. The sex you wind up with depends on a chemical bath. If the Zygote is not bathed it will become female regardless of the chromosomes. Generally the sex genome resides on the Y chromosome therefore a XX Zygote would not have the sex genome, would not be bathed and would not become male. This process is backwards from Christian teachings in that the male is modified to create the female. In nature the female is modified to create the male.

    • http://gravatar.com/bychoosing Jay

      I think it’s safe to assume that Atheists are Darwinists. Most Atheists and Darwinists I know also think that homosexuality is natural and good. But how can these two coexist?

      Homosexuality is not a trait that is beneficial to the species, since homosexual beings do not reproduce. If it is innate, shouldn’t it have disappeared from the gene pool, or at least be on its way out, instead of growing rapidly? Whether it’s innate or not, shouldn’t proponents of Darwinian natural selection agree that homosexuality is deviant behavior and should be shunned for the good of our species?

      Having thought about this for a while, I believe that there is only one way that Darwinian materialists can support the growth of homosexuality: the family must be destroyed.

      Reproduction must be controlled in science labs through in vitro fertilization, and women must be hired to be impregnated and give birth at state-run birthing centers; the children would thereafter be taken into the custody of the government. Instead of being consistent by seeing their error and reverting to the traditional family model, I believe our society will move closer and closer to the kind of thing we see in the novel “The Giver” to make up for
      the loss of population due to problems like divorce, uncontrolled contraception and abortion, and the cultural acceptance of homosexuality.

  • bscott

    It sounds like a most of you should move to Topeka to be with your master Fred Phelps & family.That way you can go out and picket at military funerals & let the world know that only you know the truth.What happens when you realize you have been worshiping the Anti-Christ and you’ll be going the opposite direction?

    • Raggs

      BINGO…

    • Raggs

      I’m going to recant my above statement.

      • Robert Benitez

        People all that continue in sin are antichrist. GOD made in the beginning to men, right?
        Then no nothing. GOD created man and woman for each other. To bring children into the world to repenish the earth. That two faggs etc. etc.

  • old hillbilly

    Marriage is a word that has a finite meaning (man & woman & reproduction) since beginning of recorded time. If you want something else, use a different word, don’t confuse centuries of communications. Progressive perverts wouldn’t be trying to pass a sack of bull dung off as the family jewels, would we?

    While you’re at it define it with exact characteristics. It’s always considered as sexual, so explain how it works so we’ll be sure to not to discriminate or offend homogenized pure sanitized acts recommended by Joe Biden, President Obama, and their czars. If the sexual parts are at opposite ends of individual bodies, how can things that far apart make sexual contact? If the electrodes don’t touch, the lights don’t come on!

    After countless years of loving and sanctifying whatever is going on, we know no one can caress the other’s ear… so, just what is electrifying what, what’s happening, and how it happens, needs thorough examination and approval by the CDC, FDA, and PITA. Can a person do it to their cat? I remember having to read some Freudian crap about body cavities, the things that go in one end & come out the other & that some people who walked backwards & mumbled a lot got so twitchillated with what came out that they grew to love it & got all shaky & couldn’t wait till it came out. Mamma and everyone with doctor degrees always said stay away from it, because it’s full of germs, bacteria, diseases, even worms at times. The FDA goes ballistic if an iddybit of feces is found in food. Doctors say connecting one end to the other can cause AIDS & hippytidus, and even more worms! YUCK! So, I’m thinking we need some mighty explaining, how to do what’s good, & what not to do. No need in getting preachers all torn up again, so it’s up to Mr. Joey Biden & Mr. President BO Obama to go on TV & give us all the details & facts, & why it usurps religious freedom. I’m all torn up and won’t vote for Mr. Obama till I see him on the tube enlightening us why mamma, my doctor, and the preacher were full of BS. Matter of fact I want everybody to scorn & shun these people – they insulted mamma, the preacher, & God! They’re sick!

    • http://www.facebook.com/tony.young.31 Tony Young

      Amen Old hillbilly, they should hold a national news conference and just explain how they do it and explain someone who’s having anal sex no longer has to worry about feces and all the diseases that come with coming in contact with it . That is so gross to think about and I do not understand for the life of me why someone would want to do such. In the bible it says toward the end time God will give man up a reprobate mind , which is no morals or conscience basically , and it looks to be headed that way. Hang on , gonna be a bumpy ride,,,,,

  • bscott

    old hillbilly – why don’t you give us a rundown of you & your’n in bed. Like do you kiss,caress,do you only do missionary?Have you ever tried other positions-front- back-or that other one?Have you seen each other nekkid?Or do you only (like Rick Santorum)do it for procreation ’cause all that other stuff is icky.I could go on but you seem to have an encyclopedic knowledge of this stuff…Hmm. I’m sure Rush will also demand a video after 4 wives he needs a little help.

    • old hillbilly

      The issue is changing the definition of marriage to mock and undermine Christian, Muslim, and any other religion that places God above mealy men who pretend omnipotence. Christians, Jews, and Muslims define homosexuality an abomination, thus, the Obama-nation’s sanctification of homosexuality is what it is… an abomination. Obama’s Muslim Brotherhood and Hamas brothers put homosexuals to death, we don’t! Nobody wants or needs your porn flick. Stay to the point, there is no “sexual” union to be defined in homosexuality, no remote possibility of procreation, and no reason to pervert the word “marriage”! If the parody didn’t sink in, your perversion eventually will, many times with vengeance… hopefully not – It’s your curse not mine.

      The challenge is to Biden, Obama and anyone else who demands mockery and desecration of religion. You (pl) can’t come up with the explanations that won’t be gross, offensive, and vile to a group of all age, sex, and religion! The point is “fecal-ism” is asking for AIDS& hepatitis, – it’s hidden, vile and despicable – so bad it’s one of the very few “isms” no one will claim, not even the dictionary! And here we are… our leaders sanctifying it – Let them explain it & bear the burden with it! I will vote against any elected official who desecrates my religion, which doesn’t mean the must believe as I do!

    • Robert Benitez

      faggs have no morals and have no sense of what is Right and what is wrong. they live to please themselves. That is why The GOD of Glory has always destroyed them. Judgment awaits them like always. They are very dangerous. We need to round them up and place them in an Assylum. They are a danger to themselves and everything around them. If I’m wrong lets proof it. Place them in an isolated island, men with men and woman with woman. Even nature teaches us all that there is a GOD of Glory that send His Son to give us an opportunity for true life and an eternal life at that.

  • Karolyn

    I have to say for the most part this has been a very intelligent and civil discussion of a sometimes pretty hot topic. Of course, there are always a couple of exceptions, though.

  • bscott

    girls just like to have fun

  • William 1

    Last time I heard about a lot of gays etc was in Sodom and Gomorrah and GOD HIMSELF CAME DOWN-SAW FOR SURE WHAT WAS HAPPENING AND HE WIPED THE WHOLE PLACE OFF THE FACE OF THIS EARTH-DO YA STILL NOT GET IT? It’s not just what THIS Pastor stands for He is standing up and telling you GOD DOES NOT LIKE THIS HOMOSEXUAL/Lewsbian THING AND 6 OTHER SINS-YES SINS! Since the homos want to be in your fsace about it then they must take the brunt of the reaction and repent before God does His thing again!

  • Mark-Edward

    The argument that “homosexuality is genetic” bothers me. Homosexuality equals non-reproduction. Therefore the “homosexual gene” (if such a thing could actually exist) would be self-terminating, and would have long ago been weeded out of the human gene pool because very few homosexuals reproduce their queer gene by way of having children. Instead, we see the homosexual rate exploding. I conclude that homosexuality is a cultural malady, a spiritual depravity, a chosen form of perversion among people with low morals, and certainly NOT a “genetic issue”. And then those who disagree with me will attack me with verbal violence by calling me “hateful” because I have an opinion that they cannot control, and I am casting moral judgment upon them. There is no hate in me having an opinion. I will admit that I absolutely hate lima beans, but I have that right, simply because they repulse my sense of taste. Does that make me morally wrong? But wait… those who call me “morally wrong” for opposing homosexuality are making a “hateful moral judgment” are they not? At least that’s how I see it, since they have set the standard themselves by saying that my making a moral judgement is “hateful”. The hate coming from homosexuals and their supporters convinces me completely that this is an issue of moral depravity by choice, and they are just mad that somebody dares call them out.

    • Neil Swan

      Lesbians and Gays can have children and many do. Of course it’s between male and female couples. It’s just that Gays and Lesbians prefer sex with their same type. They are born with that in mind.

      Neil

      • Mark-Edward

        There was a study done on the declining birth rate in various cultures. At a certain point, there are not enough children being born to sustain the civilization, and there is a point that can be called “irreversible” – i.e. its too late and the group/culture/civilization is doomed and dies out because it cannot recover from the top-heavy (age) population. Seems to me that logic would dictate the same principle, especially when dealing with an alleged “genetic” issue such as homosexuality. Over time, with only some of that group reproducing, the gene supposedly responsible would die out. But instead, we see a sudden huge explosion in modern day America from people who have absolutely no genetic ties to each other – in other words there doesn’t appear to be “family trees” infested with homosexuality. It appears to be random, and focused in certain geographical areas among certain specific economic classes and cultural groups. Almost like it’s contagious, rather than genetic. Which supports my thoughts that it is indeed a counter-cultural rebellious perversion that is a chosen lifestyle resulting from lack of morals, and not at all a genetic or “born with” issue. Sexual preferences are subject to personal discipline or lack there-of. All I see is rationalizations and excuses. There is no good that comes from it, homosexuality is a perversion by dictionary definition, it subverts good morals and stable communities, and its sinful and shameful behavior.

        Neil, you say they “prefer sex with their same time”. Something is just plain wrong with that statement. Has the notion of “having sex” been redefined and I didn’t get the memo? Two men or two women together would seem to be more of a shared masturbation session…

        This whole discussion is just disgusting and unnatural. Its amazing how far people will stretch the imagination to try and justify a filthy dirty self-indulgent perverse action. And then hate and threaten people who point out just how filthy and dirty it is.

  • bscott

    A lot of “conclusions” here what are your qualifications? where were you educated? what was your major? Who have you consulted with to reach these conclusions? I see that it’s real easy to get on here and say anything you want. You need to remember there are consequences for your actions. Too many come to these sites and claim to be the voice of God.Interpretations will vary from person to person, or in different branches of religions.You have freedom of speech-which does not mean what you say is the truth.There’s an amazing amount of bigotry here – hatred , name calling , and now I’ve read & heard death threats.When you spew garbage don’t whine about being verbally abused do you expect people to accept your abuse. Man up. Really. I’d really worry about what goes on in your own backyards. Spousal abuse – verbal & physical, adultery, daddy molesting his own daughter, I’m sure everyone on these sites lives a perfect life.I have trouble seeing why gays want to get married, as straights sure make a mess of it. Groucho Marx said it best – “I’d never want to be a member of a club that would have me as a member.

  • Charles Bill L.

    I say what we need in America out in the wide open spaces is a colony for homos of both sexes.All homos be transported to that place.Men to one place and females to an other.After 50 years there would be no homos left.I applaude the Baptist Minester for his stand.Each state needs no homo marriage in its constitution.If the feds try to defy the ammendment tell them to take a powder get lost hit the road jack and dontcha come back no more no more.

    • noh8

      Because historically speaking relocating a group of people we dislike and hoping they die has worked amazingly well for us human beings.

      • Robert Benitez

        What’s going on here in America is the destruction of the enemies of Life and purity.
        They hate Christians and so they hate America. They know how to bring about disorder
        and discontent. They know GOD hates faggs and all that continue to worship false gods and that sacrifice children. Faggs don’t understand that when the communist take over they will first kill faggs because there no good for no society. They are destructive to themselves and everyone around them. We need to send them back to the closet like in the past or face the judgment/the wrath of GOD.

        • noh8

          Now I see the problem. We don’t appear to be speaking of the same God. The God I was raised to believe in isn’t about hate. He is about love. Divine love. He sent his only Son to die for us because he loved the world. He preaches about forgiveness and not judging others. And as I recall there was a story somewhere in the Bible about he who is perfect casting the first stone…? Maybe your Bible is different from mine. God loves and forgives sinners so much that he leaves his flock to seek out the lost sheep to return them to the fold.

          • Robert Benitez

            But if you are quoting the Scriptures don’t forget that Jesus Christ said to the prostitute not to continue in sin. Sin is a deceiver and it destroys lifes. Faggs are so blind that it is hard for them to come to the Truth that set men free from sinnful slavery. Satan is the god of this world and rules over all that continue to reject the Love of the Truth. GOD is LOVE but also of consuming fire.

      • noh8

        Well then. The Bible proves that if God wants to destroy people in wrath, he does. Considering how long homosexuality in all it’s sinfulness has been going on, you’d think by now He would have smited them. But until my God does so, I think I’ll just accept that everyone sins and work on my own instead of suggesting going against the commandments of God and bringing about the death of people. Thou shalt not kill and love your neighbor. God is the righteous judge and it is not my place to supersede that. I am sorry that their sins have brought you to such anger that you seek the death of others. Perhaps meditating on the Bible and prayer will help! God bless America, sinners and all!

  • CJrane

    Robert,

    You asked “Is there ANY rational reason that doesn’t impact heterosexuals to ban gay marriage? ”

    How can open, public, and legal homosexual marriages NOT impact heterosexuals? The vast majority of us “breeders” as we’re called find it morally reprehensible, visually offensive, and just plain disgusting.

    But if what you are looking for is a rational reason why gay marriage should be banned, how about the cost to the rest of our already bankrupt nation?

    Increased health insurance costs due to all the folks who would suddenly be covered under a spouse’s insurance policy?

    Increased burden on local government and infrastructure, marriage licenses, driver’s license name changes, etc.

    How about retirement and social security benefits, company pension plans are already running dry… social security is BROKE and you’re going to perform the largest induction of potential beneficiaries at any one time since the decision was made to give SS benefits to illegals!

    Think about the world (and hopefully the nation) that we’ll be leaving to future generations.

    In 70-something years do you really want a young person doing a research paper to be perusing newly-released census statistics and come across “Robert and Joe Smith – Married – etc”???

    How embarrassing for our culture, and our nation!

    Oh, how far we’ve already fallen…. and how much worse it’s likely to get. SAD.

  • CJrane

    Just to clarify, my previous post was a reply to Robert Smith, not Robert Benitez.

  • old hillbilly

    We are in the midst of an all out war against Christianity. POTUS can’t exhale without adding another restriction on Christianity. He just gave The Muslim “Brothelhoods” & Hamas $2.5 billion & $150 million + fighting wars FOR them – both are terrorists & avowed Christian & Jew killers – both avowed homosexual killers too… all because our traitorous senate & house majority gave POTUS $1+ trillion more to spend on “Christmas”! It’s about eliminating Christians & the USA– bankrupt them financially, morally, and religiously – first two done, now it’s the obama-nation’s progressives in to kick butt. Your neighbors are losing homes & out of work!

    Biden Time calls all the homogenized sheeples together for pat on the butt time. All the homogenized sheeples bow and celebrate. Like a magnet, BHO gets out the fife toots the flute towards the sea calling the homogenized sheeples to pair up, boy with boy & girl with girl – hand in hand and other things in other places that won’t procreate. Tootie, tweet, tweet – luv U… going to marry you (pl) – join the abomination & the Obama-nation – going to celebrate, eleminate Christian souls who call your abomination an abomination…. Follow me to the sea and we’ll frolic on the beach.

    So many things going on, the china shop is disintegrating, yet everyone believes in the mad shop keeper and his raging bulls who are destroying us rather than protecting us as promised! Are we going to let them run over and destroy us, or the use Bible for guidance… turn them upon themselves? Surely loony Clooney has friends and followers who would love to integrate a mosque or two… or ERA all of them.

    We’re in this mess because we’ve lost truth, morality, and backbone. We’re afraid we might insult someone who needs insulting! That which is called abomination is an abomination, and it isn’t “love, equality, togetherness, compassion, tenderness, tolerance, or compromise.” Respecting privacy and not harming someone who isn’t harming you is one thing. Teaching sexual perversion, titillating with props, and planting perverse ideas into children of all ages in public schools deserves serious jail time. That’s how it was a few years ago! There’s nothing nice, clean, or wholesome about homosexuality, because, as the Bible says it’s an abomination. You can’t sanctify or cleanse it by calling perversion “LOVE”. Call perversion what perversion is and call down anyone who spits on your beliefs by preaching the trash – make them define what HS really is, without deception! Put your foot on your legislator. If they’re a Rino or democrat fire them, find someone with morality & truth & make it happen! We’ve had enough Harvard degrees!The tea party & the jail bird say we can overwhelm & overcome at the ballot box! We can severely punish corruption to where the next generation will have purpose and rebuild that which we destroyed!

  • http://rightgunner.wordpress.com rightgunner

    The courts have apparently said the homosexuality it not a civil wrong, but it is clearly a religious wrong, and everyone who wishes has a right to say so, since Congress shall make no law…………

    The fact that the court may have declared that homosexuality is not a civil wrong in no way made it a civil right, and any argument that says otherwise has no legal standing.

  • CHRISTOPHER ALLEN HORTON

    THERE IS A GROUP OF PEOPLE WHO GET UP AND GET DRESSED ON SUNDAY MORNINGS, PUT GAS IN THEIR CARS AND GO TO HEAR Pastor Sean Harris SPEAK. THESE PEOPLE PROBABLY ALSO PAY Pastor Harris A WEEKLY SALARY. THEREFORE, WHY IS Pastor Harris “SINGLED-OUT” FOR HIS VIEWS? HE HAS A FLOCK WHO SUPPORTS HIM.

    I AM QUITE SURE, SOME OF THOSE FATHERS TOOK Pastor Harris’ ADVICE AND HIT THEIR SON’S WRIST IF HE EXHIBITED EFFEMINATE BEHAVIOR; LIKEWISE, SOME FATHERS TOLD DAUGHTERS WHO EXHIBITED OVERTLY-MASCULINE BEHAVIOR TO “DRESS-UP AND SMELL NICE.”

    Pastor Sean Harris IS NOT A LUNATIC. THIS STORY IS A RADICALLY-LIBERAL “TOOL” UTILIZED TO MAKE RELIGIOUS CONSERVATIVES LOOK EXTREME.

    CHRISTOPHER ALLEN HORTON

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