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Bachmann Received Divine ‘Calling’ To Run

June 2, 2011 by  

Bachmann Received Divine ‘Calling’ To Run

Representative Michele Bachmann (R-Minn.) recently said that, among the voices clamoring for her to run in 2012, one stands out: God’s.

In an interview with Iowa Public Television, Bachmann was asked if she, unlike recent GOP race bow-out Mike Huckabee, had received a divine calling to run for President.

“Well, every decision that I make I pray about as does my husband and I can tell you, yes, I’ve had that calling and that tugging on my heart that this is the right thing to do,” Bachmann said, acknowledging that her decision involved a lot of practical, as well as spiritual decision-making.

“Am I the right person for the job? Every decision and every endeavor my husband and I have made we think it through, we’re not rash people. We make a plan because we want to succeed, we don’t want to fail and so we’ve been very deliberative in this process and that’s why we’re now coming to the culmination and next month, as I announced last night, I’ll make that decision right here in Waterloo and the world will know.”

Bachmann has been very open about her Christian faith, making her religious views a pillar of her political platform.

“The founders wrote in the Federalist Paper(s) that the greatest quality for a president of the United States would be their character and not that I’m a sinless individual, I’m a great sinner, that’s why I became a Christian,” Bachmann said in the interview. “I needed forgiveness from a Holy God but what I want people to know is that I value life, I’m 100 percent pro-life, I’m pro-marriage, pro-family and I’m 100 percent pro-American jobs.”

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  • Norm

    HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

    Maybe she should for pope.

    • Norm

      Maybe she should RUN for pope.

      • juan

        A Pope is Selected by the ‘college’ of Cardinals. Notice Norm, I said Selected, not Elected. NO ONE RUNS for Pope. Some one is Selected from among the Cardinal or even the priesthood. If enough Cardinals agree then that person is ASKED to be the Pope. You can decline the honor. If you were just ignorant you’ve been educated. If you’re just stupid then there’s no cure for stupid.

        • http://naver samurai

          You’re right on the money Juan. There is no cure for abnorm. You are either born that way or raised up that way and abnorm was born that way. Norm, how are you going to feel when your “messiah” gets beat in the next election by a landslide? Who wil be saying ha, ha, ha, ha then? Go Michelle! We need another real Christian in the White House and not this fool pretender! FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

          • http://democraticinsight.net/ Gary

            You talk about real Christians as though you are an authority on the matter. How do you know Obama is a pretender? How did you achieve such wisdom? What in your mind is a real Christian? I know this much. It is a sin to bear false witness. Something you and Michele have in common.

          • Norm

            samurai

            You can’t convince a believer of anything; for their belief is not based on evidence, it’s based on a deep seated need to believe. [Dr. Arroway in Carl Sagan's Contact (New York: Pocket Books, 1985]

          • http://naver samurai

            Gary and abnorm, you 2 just need to shut up! You 2 aren’t Christians and have no hope of understanding. Why do I say pretender? If a person can’t prove anything about his life, due to everything about him disappearing, then he is a pretender and not the real deal. Are you 2 a couple of ostriches? You 2 must have your heads buried deep somewhere for the last 2 1/2 years. Look forward to Obama bin Laden going back to Kenya in 2012! FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

            P.S, Since Gary talks about not bearing false witness, I suggest that he does the same. You can’t have it both ways. Since you 2 never post sources or facts, ergo what you post are just lies, rhetoric, and inuendo. You have served your masters well. Good boys! Woof! Woof! Here’s a 12″ long bone for you 2 to chew on. Tube steak, that is.

          • Jana

            Gary,
            You stated:*************************
            You talk about real Christians as though you are an authority on the matter. How do you know Obama is a pretender? How did you achieve such wisdom? What in your mind is a real Christian? I know this much. It is a sin to bear false witness. Something you and Michele have in common.
            ************************************************

            He knows what is required to be a real Christian because he studies the Word of God. You would know this if you knew the Bible.
            You didn’t even have the right scripture for a comeback. From yur reply, you are the one bearing false witness.

          • http://naver samurai

            Thank you Jana. It’s always good to see you. Keep up the good fight, fellow patriot! FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

          • eyeswideopen

            So, Jana, you know that the President doesn’t study the Bible? How is that possible? Do you have access to his private life? lmao!

          • Jana

            eyes shut,
            By now you must have a very skinny a.. as you laugh it off all of the time.
            Never stated Obama didn’t read the Bible. Maybe you need reading comprehension lessons.

          • http://naver samurai

            OMG! The “enlightened” one eys wide shut is back. If Obama bin Laden is a Christian, then why has he only attended church once in 2 1/2 years? Can you answer that? Can you tell me why Obama bin Laden claimed to be a muslim at a national press conference after giving a speech, using many teleprompters? Just like a lib, gay loving, baby killing, marxist to say such drivil. If he’s a Christian, then why is he siding with unplanned parenthood (The population control experts) against Indiana? How is Indiana’s law to defund unplanned parenthood illegal? Why is Obama bin Laden going around the Hyde Amendment to do what his controllers want him to do? Need to get your facts straight before you post. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

          • eyeswideopen

            samurai, since you are so concerned with Obama church attendance, did you also have the same issue with Bush? http://demms.tribe.net/thread/577ea6b9-9ff9-4753-a5ec-02fa2062d86b
            Are you now saying that you cannot be a devote Christian unless you attend services of a specific church? I’ll let all those disabled know that you have revoked their right to be a Christian. Holy cow, dude if he attended every sunday, you and your nutty right wingers would be complaining of the additional costs and for the logistical burdens that would burden the church. So now we have a litmus test for being a Christian?? No wonder there has been a 10% decline in the Christian community since 2000. People like you are driving away people of faith.

          • eyeswideopen

            samurai, regarding Indiana, it is against the law to prevent medicare and medicaid patient from choosing health care services from any specific company. That is why! You people are funny, don’t want abortions, but refuse to let the poor have birth control….how stupid can you be? When I was younger, my husband and I used planned parenthood for birth control pills and pap smears. We were broke as his parents were in car accident and their life savings was demolished in less than 14 months. They moved in with us and that meant not using a regular doctors office for visits and scripts as we couldn’t afford the additional expense. Why do you hate women so much?

          • Jana

            AS USUAL, eyes twists and distorts what samurai was saying.

            To address your statement of there may be a 10% decline in the Christian community. Wrong! There is a 10% decline of us going to a church building.I don’t go to a church building and YES I am a Christian.
            Wow eyes you are starting to resemble a pretzel.

          • eyeswideopen

            Jana, you are wrong. Please see http://www.southernstudies.org/2009/03/survey-finds-christianity-on-the-decline—-even-in-the-south.html

            You need to profess to samuari, that you are a good Christian, as he was the one critizing Obama for not going to church regularly, not me.
            As a good Christian, if someone tells me they are one, I accept it. I don’t judge what type of practicing Christian they are. It is not my place to do that. God is the judge, not you or me.

          • libertytrain

            Jana to me she says this:
            “liberty, are you saying that these Christians are not spewing hate? Come on, you are very intelligent and obviously can read. I am merely stating the facts.”

            To you she said: “As a good Christian, if someone tells me they are one, I accept it. I don’t judge what type of practicing Christian they are. It is not my place to do that. God is the judge, not you or me.”

            I may not be too bright but I’m fairly certain these two statements don’t match up – In one she’s judging Christians saying they are spewing hate; in the other she says God is the judge. I’m confused.

          • Jana

            Libertytrain,
            You are not the one confused. The pretzel is. She doesn’t know which way is coming or going.

          • eyeswideopen

            liberty, nice catch, just trying to use any means possible to show the Christians on this site what they look like to others. I really have high standards for Christians as far as the hate issue goes. Can’t believe that you let samurai, use “tube steak in previous posting, without complaining. You do know what that is don’t you? How rude and gross to make that statement. You however will jump on anything I say. Why is that? Is it because I can find facts to disprove most of the statements made? Example , meteorlady,stating the dollar has dropped 17% since Obama took over. Where do these lies come from? Fox news? Common sense tells you, if that were true we would be in the midst of a depression as we speak. Why don’t you ever call out each other when facts are incorrect and downright just stupid? That is how misinformation is spread and then the conservatives look completely stupid. It is rather funny that the conservatives critize the left for doing the same exact thing the right is doing. But the left are the “bad guys” while the right has the attitude that they are the only fiscally responsible, who don’t take handouts. I guess no repubs took unemployment, medicare, medicaid, food stamps, filed bankruptcy, and there certainly are no repub criminals in this country. Since you conservatives are so perfect, how did you let us get into this situation in the first place? You had control of the country from 1996 thru 2007. I however agree with the repubs on killing medicare. Let’s get rid of all the slackers and make them die faster and not on my dime! Do away with unemployment and Social Security. If something happens to you, too bad, deal with it! I am smart enough to be able to protect my family, too bad for the rest of you. See I am really a Conservative at heart.

          • Jana

            eyes,

            You said:***************liberty, nice catch, just trying to use any means possible to show the Christians on this site what they look like to others. I really have high standards for Christians as far as the hate issue goes**************

            You need to have high standards for yourself, and no, you are giving your tainted opinion of what a Christian looks like to you. Since you are not my authority, God and HIS word are my authority, as well as my rules, what you say about it has no value.
            As far as for what samurai said, no, I don’t know what that is. I don’t know what half of the stuff people call each other is. Neither do I want to know, as I don’t want to dwell in bad words if it is a bad word.

            ****************You also state:Do away with unemployment and Social Security. If something happens to you, too bad, deal with it! I am smart enough to be able to protect my family, too bad for the rest of you. See I am really a Conservative at heart.******************

            You are NO Conservative. You come across as a mean, manipulative old woman who distorts the truth.

          • Jana

            eyes,
            That last part is just in case you want to see how you come across to others.

          • JeffH

            Jana, pretty accurate assessment I’d say.

          • eyeswideopen

            samurai, you have no problem using the word “messiah” to slader or degrade someone? Bettcha Jesus just loves that don’t you think?

          • http://naver samurai

            Eyes, you’re full of it. Medicare and medicaid are government run programs. They fall under the Hyde Amendment. Ergo, the government isn’t supposed to give them money for anything, due to them providing services for abortions. Remember, little lost sheep, that the government isn’t supposed to give money in any way to an abortion provider. You lose again! Second, just because Indiana doesn’t give money to unplanned parenthood doesn’t keep people from going there. It just means that they have to get money by other means than from the state and federal governments. With the checks written by rob smith alone, that should be enough to keep the clinics in Indiana open. You lie eyes, you lie! Get off of the lib kool aid before it fries you lib mind.

            Patriots, eyes says about how Christians are deserting the ranks and how we are showing hostility against other people. If you think we are bad, try pushing your ideas in a muslim community or nation. You may end up being beheadded for being an infidel and bringing wild ideas into their community. MOF maybe you should go there. I hear Iran is nice this time of year.

            Ahhhhh, such word play to insult others and steal their rights. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

          • April

            eyes
            By your fruits we know you. You have just admitted what a big fat liar you really are as you stated yourself you’d use any means…
            As far as the hate issue goes you meet new lows regularly. Most on this site do not like what you have to say because you are rude and a distorter of the truth. Most of your info is false and if you do give sources most are sources that I have learned to not trust such as demms.tribe.net, cnn, msnbc, southernstudies.org (an institute for civil rights movements and progressive projects such as culture and social change and economic justice, and community organizing) ya know far left agenda type sources that are managing to work their way into our school programs. And the far left such as this that you represent very well,is the bad guy. You play the RINO in an effort to make the good guy look bad, be he democaratic, libertarian, independent, republican or any of us conservatives for that matter. But you fail and will continue to do so b/c you have no trustworthy sources and you have no commonsense. You live only to condemn anything a Christian or a Conservative stands for. You are the bad guy. You can call this judgmental if ya like, but it really isn’t b/c you are what you are and most on this site see you for what you are.

          • libertytrain

            eyes, your insecurity is showing.

        • Kate8

          Jana – The only times I’ve heard Obama quote the Bible, he’s misquoted it and twisted its meaning.

          I don’t think he reads the Bible, as he appears to have very little understanding of it.

          • Jana

            Kate8,
            I do agree. I do believe he reads the Qu’ran though as he doesn’t misquote that.
            You will find eyes wide shut is about as liberal as she can get. She has a agenda and doesn’t mince words about it.

          • http://naver samurai

            He doesn’t even know to mention the word Creator when quoting the Declaration of Independence. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

          • eyeswideopen

            Kate8, prove it! Show us proof that he misquoted the Bible.

          • JeffH

            Kate8…Video: “Obama Mocks Christians & Misquotes The Bible On Tape”
            http://igossip.com/gossip/Video_from_Obama_Mocks_Christians_and_Misquotes_The_Bible_On_Tape_Barack_Obama/1530439

          • eyeswideopen

            Jeff, do you not get his point that we don’t do those things that the Bible instructs us to do at this point in our history? The human race has evolved and violence like stoning are not acceptable now. Do you want to digress and go back to those times? OOps, I already know the answer and it is YES. Too bad, but civilization and our greater intelligence has given us a leg up on our ancestors and progress has been made. Geez, women even get to vote. Who would have thunk that could happen? Since God is responsible for allowing that to happen, take it up with him.

          • http://naver sook young

            Sorry eyes wide open, but you are wrong. Many women in these days are still stoned to death in the muslim nations of the world. Please give correct information next time, OK? Yes, we are more technically advanced and our civilization has greatly improved, but some things don’t change. Morals, ethics, and religious beliefs don’t change or rarely change over time. If you would read the Bible, you would see that what God and Jesus say in it hasn’t changed one bit over thousands of years. I have a question for you. What proof and evidence can you provide that atheism is accurate and correct? Yes we do have the right to vote, but many of the women in the original women’s movement were Christins. Gee, I thought you would know that. I gues you just say things without thinking. Thank you.

            Sook Young
            Wife of the Samurai

          • Jana

            eyes,
            Wrong again. If you would bother to read WITH COMPREHENSION) the Bible before you try to put it down you would find that God always honored women. God is not the one who put women down, it was man, and traditions of men just like we see in the Muslum world today how women are subserviant to men.
            God used women in high places throughout the Bible. In the Old as well as the New Testament you can read where it says GOD IS NO RESPECTER OF PERSONS. In other words HIS laws are for men and women alike, HIS fairness is to men and women alike, He doesn’t play favorites. Women ar mentioned by name also, such as Deborah who was JUDGE OVER ISRAEL.
            You stated ************ civilization and our greater intelligence has given us a leg up on our ancestors and progress has been made. Geez, women even get to vote. Who would have thunk that ********
            In your case what happened to your intelligence? With people like you voting we can see where that got us. Yet you are still allowed to vote. You have no reading comprehension nor common sense. Your mind is like a pretzel twists and turns and distorts.

      • http://marcum1@wildblue.net coal miner

        Norm,

        Bachhmann says:

        “The founders wrote in the Federalist Paper(s) that the greatest quality for a president of the United States would be their character and not that I’m a sinless individual, I’m a great sinner, that’s why I became a Christian,” Bachmann said in the interview. “I needed forgiveness from a Holy God but what I want people to know is that I value life, I’m 100 percent pro-life, I’m pro-marriage, pro-family and I’m 100 percent pro-American jobs.”She for forgot to say “I am nutttier than a candy bar”.Norm,I think she is suffering from a mental disorder;she keeps hearing voices.Michele,please seek professional help,being schizophrenic is nothing to be ashamed of. Hang in there.Ha ha ha ha

        • Kate8

          All a politician, especially one considering a presidential run, has to do is eve MENTION that they honor God and the Left comes out in force to brand them looney.

          Our early founders ALL openly believed in God, and that was the basis for our system. We were better people for it, too.

          I think it’s crucial that our leaders hold an accounting to a Higher Power. At least the One who commands that we love and honor one another, and the One who brings liberty (NOT the one O serves).

          Watch the Left crucify her for wanting to do what’s right in the Name of God. Yet HE is the One who keeps us steady on our path, in the face of adversity and corruption. Without Him, there is no reason to fight for what’s right when it could mean sacrificing your very life.

          And BTW, she’s not claiming to be Joan of Arc. She simply stated that, yes, she does feel a calling and that it feels right. All of us have that ability to “sense” when we are doing something we are in alignment with.

          • http://democraticinsight.net/ Gary

            Not another one, please! Bush heard voices in head and you see where that got us. Personally, I think a liar and name caller like Bachmann has no business calling herself a Christian. She cannot bear false witness as she does and call herself a Christian. Anyone claiming to hear voices in their head is clearly suspicious in my mind.

          • Kate8

            Case in point. Gary.

            She does not hear voices, and never said anything like that.

            She feels it’s right. But then, liberals wouldn’t know anything about that. Feeling right.

          • Ken

            I wonder what they would say about Jesus….

          • Jana

            Kate8,
            You are so right. Gary sounds like the perfect leftist liberal who worships his socialism.

          • http://naver samurai

            Gary, since all you are going to do is rant, leave! What proof and evidence can you show that atheism is accurate and correct? No using your favorite crutch science. Second, care to cite some sources to back up what you say or are you going to continue spouting lies from you lib, gay loving, baby killing, marxist mouth? You better not just let me hear crickets either. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

          • http://naver samurai

            Aw shucks Gary, Clinton heard voices too. Ooops! I forgot the voices he heard were Monica’s. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

          • eyeswideopen

            Kate, is that the same calling she heard when she stated that the entire congress should be investigated to see if they were Un-American? What guidelines did she want to use? Oh! that’s right, anyone who isn’t signed on with the radical right is un-American. Please forgive me, I almost forgot about the only group in America, who is righteous.

          • Kate8

            eyes – What she called for was for Congresspeople to demonstrate their understanding of the Constitution.

            Most of them have none, and aren’t interested.

          • http://naver samurai

            OK, eyes blind, then tell me when the GOP had a reading of the Constitution in January this year, the lib, gay loving, baby killing, marxists protested against it? Why did they think it was a waste of time? Could it be that they are nothing but cowards and traitors and would find out that many of their programs shouldn’t be passed? Since you seem to have a say about hings, why don’t you answer this simple question? Can you name the 3 places where Jesus is mentioned or a reference to God is mentioned? FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

          • eyeswideopen

            Kate8, your statement is not really rational considering that their are approximately 80 million Christians in this country. That means that since you contend that the libs are not Christians, the whole 80 million are repubs. Luckily dems are also Christian and that stops this country from becoming a Christian theocracy. Our founding fathers protected us from becoming a Christian theocracy by not allowing or creating a national religion and preventing the government from intermingling in religion. Thank Goodness they were smart enough to foresee that radicals might want everyone to be of the same religion.

          • eyeswideopen

            samurai, the word God is not in the Constitution. The exception is in the Signatory section where the date is written, which was not a religious reference. please see http://www.usconstitution.net/constnot.html#god

            Any more questions about God being in the Constitution?

          • eyeswideopen

            Hey, Samurai, I have not disrespected you by calling you, a wanna be warrior, or any other name, why can’t you give me the same respect and call me eyes wide open?? SHows just how hypocritical you are, you demand respect but don’t give it in return.

          • http://naver samurai

            OK, eys, let’s try this out for size. You did get one of the places right. It says “…in the year of our Lord…”, which is a reference to the year after the birth of Jesus. The second one is the Bill of Rights. Since we get those rights from God, not the government, ergo they are God given rights. I thought all Americans knew that. Also the Preamble of the Constitution says, “…secure the blessings of liberty…”, right? If this nation is blessed, there must be a blesser. Since we humans, nor any government, don’t have the ability to do this, it has to be done by a Supreme Being. Someone or something higher and more powerful than us. This is also a reference back to the Declaration of Independence which states, “…endowed by their Creator…” Creator is another word for God and endowed means “blessed”, ergo blessed by God. These rights of life, liberty, and the persuit of happiness are covered in the Bill of Rights. Those are the 3 areas. I didn’t mean to make the test question that hard, but my high school students got this question right. Why couldn’t you? If you want me to play nicer, OK. No problem!

            “God who gave us life, gave us liberty.” Thomas Jefferson.

            Have a good weekend everyone, libs also. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

          • libertytrain

            Eyes you say here in this thread ‘you didn’t disrespect Samurai’ and yet earlier in the eve you posted this – what do you call this, love, respect? Or is this your “irony” –
            Eyes said: “…Or is your ego so big, that you think you could have been a Samurai? Just wondering how such a chest pounding patriot would take a foreign name as his call sign.”

          • http://naver samurai

            Thank you libertytrain. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

          • Jana

            eyes, You show nothing but disrespect, but mostly you show disrespect for yourself.
            Why don’t we call you eyes wide open? Because you are so BLIND to the truth that you can’t see.

        • Guest

          @Coal Miner,
          Why is this “nutty” as you say. In the article she was quoted as having said she felt a “tugging at [her] heart” and also made the decision based on a lot of practical factors, as well. She never said she heard voices. I noticed the first paragraph of the article referred to voices, but that’s not the same as her saying ‘The Voice of God’ spoke to her. Bachmann refers to a calling, which is usually a ‘knowing’, if you will, that this is the right thing for one to do.
          You presumably have a conscience, or at least think you do. Does your conscience speak to you in an audible voice? Probably not; and yet you know, or think you know, what are the right and wrong things to do. I’m being objective about you having a conscience and the idea of you heeding it, because the content and direction of your post definitely don’t indicate that you have a conscience that you heed.

          • Richard Pawley

            It is extremely rare, even among the true prophets of God, to hear God speak outside one’s own spirit. It is almost exclusively within one’s own spirit or inner mind that God speaks to those who have accepted Jesus as the one God sent, and experienced what millions, no hundreds of millions, of Christians have experienced even in this past century, and which was the calling card so to speak, of ALL early Christians (See Acts, Chapter Two). The Bible even says to test the spirits to see if they be of God? A properly taught Christian would know how to do that.
            In my recently updated autobiography, LEAVING SOUTH CAROLINA, I tell of a brilliant friend at Vassar College years ago who only slept an hour a night because she was harassed by hearing voices from the other side. She had three psychiatrists she could call day or night for help. I was young and ignorant at the time and while fascinated could do nothing to help her back then. Today I could have silenced those voices in about ten seconds and I could explain to her what was happening, and told her what she could do to put a stop to it. I’m sure she would have slept ten or twelve hours.
            Sadly even many Christians are ignorant of the power of God that Jesus shares with those who love God and seek His will. All of our founding fathers were men of God, most of them were Christian and all of them respected the truths of the Bible, even if they didn’t always follow them faithfully. Only someone with respect and appreciation for all God has done for us will be capable of keeping our ship of state from sinking on the shoals of fiscal irresponsibility that have permeated congress and our government for the past 35 years. May God help us because no one else is going to do so.

          • http://marcum1@wildblue.net coal miner

            Guest,

            The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.
            Mikhail Bakunin

          • http://marcum1@wildblue.net coal miner

            Guest,

            It vexes me when they would constrain science by the authority of the Scriptures, and yet do not consider themselves bound to answer reason and experiment.
            Galileo Galilei:

            :

          • http://naver samurai

            “It is impossible to rightly rule a nation without God and the Bible.”

            George Washington

            FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

            P.S. Abnorm, can you come up with something to say other than other people’s quotes?

          • Kinetic1

            samurai,
            I believe the quote you have chosen, “It is impossible to rightly rule a nation without God and the Bible.”
            is supposed to be from Washington’s fair-well address, but were you to read a reliable transcript you would find that Washington did not make this statement. In fact, the closest Washington may have come to this is a quote credited to him in the book “A Life Of Washington”, though it is the only record I can find of this quote and therefore unconformable. It reads;

            “It is impossible to reason without arriving at a Supreme Being. Religion is as necessary to reason as reason is to religion. The one cannot exist without the other. A reasoning being would lose his reason in attempting to account for the great phenomena of nature, had he not a Supreme Being to refer to; and well has it been said, that if there had been no God, mankind would have been obliged to imagine one.”

            The reason I share this with you and others on this site is to point out, once again that while Washington was, on occasion given to piety in his speeches, he was not inclined to impose Christianity as you suggest.

          • Kinetic1

            R.Pawley,
            Odd that you would mention the reverence that our founding fathers had for the “truths of the Bible” (All of our founding fathers were men of God, most of them were Christian and all of them respected the truths of the Bible) without noting Jefferson’s own Bible.

          • http://naver samurai

            Sorry Kinetic, but the quote I gave stands as fact. Second, Jefferson’s Bible was where Jefferson cut certain divotional passages from Jesus from the Bible and pasted them into a book. This is a historical fact and cannot be denied. Third, our founding fathers were 56 men. 54 protestant, 2 catholic, and 29 of then held degrees in seminary. They were not deists and agnostics.

            http://www.wallbuilders.com

            FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

          • April

            Samurai
            This is a good trustworthy source.

          • http://naver samurai

            Thank you April. I wouldn’t have known about that site, if it wasn’t for a fellow patriot on one of these prior threads. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

          • Kinetic1

            samurai,
            I know exactly what Jefferson’s Bible is and that was my point. Jefferson looked at the “Truths” of the Bible and began to cut away. The Bible is a work of man, not God. To say it is divinely inspired and the true word ignores the truth of how the Bible came to be. The books of the Bible may have been so inspired, as may many other books that were left out, but man has picked and chosen and corrupted the words for his own power many times over.

            The minute you turn to wallbuilders as proof you discredit yourself. Remember, at the time of our nation’s founding schools of higher knowledge were run by the churches, so a degree in seminary proves little. David Barton may mean well, but his “proof” has been discredited so many times that it is hard to accept anything he comes up with as fact. I have heard and seen examples of his “proof” before, but nothing has explained away these words.

            “. . . Some books against Deism fell into my hands. . . It happened that they wrought an effect on me quite contrary to what was intended by them; for the arguments of the Deists, which were quoted to be refuted, appeared to me much stronger than the refutations; in short, I soon became a through Deist.”
            Ben Franklin

            “George Washington’s practice of Christianity was limited and superficial because he was not himself a Christian… He repeatedly declined the church’s sacraments. Never did he take communion, and when his wife, Martha, did, he waited for her outside the sanctuary… Even on his deathbed, Washington asked for no ritual, uttered no prayer to Christ, and expressed no wish to be attended by His representative.” Barry Schwartz, Accredited Historian

            “I do not believe in the creed professed by the Jewish Church, by the Roman Church, by the Greek Church, by the Turkish Church, by the Protestant Church, nor by any Church that I know of. My own mind is my own Church. Each of those churches accuse the other of unbelief; and for my own part, I disbelieve them all.” Thomas Paine

            “I have generally been denominated a Deist, the reality of which I never disputed, being conscious I am no Christian, except mere infant baptism makes me one; and as to being a Deist, I know not strictly speaking, whether I am one or not.” Ethan Allen

            As Ethan Allen points out, being baptized and raised a Christian does not necessarily make a man a Christian. It doesn’t mean that they became worshipers of Satan or that they turned to a life of evil or even that they questioned the existence of God or a higher power. Indeed, many words were written by these men about the need for direction from a higher power, but like Allen, many questioned the truths and the intent of the Christian Church’s and their leaders. I’m truly sorry if this causes you pain, given your desire to believe that our nation is first and foremost a Christian nation, but nothing you or David Barton or any of the religiously motivated authors of the 18th and 19th century can say will change the words of these men.

          • Kinetic1

            samurai,
            I forgot to ask, if you assertion flies in the face of many accredited historians who say Washington never said these words, then how does it stand as fact? What is your proof? Multiple listings on the web mean nothing as misquotes are as common as misspelling on the internet. Please provide your source.

          • http://naver samurai

            Kinetic, the quote and information I gave you stands as fact and cannot be denied. You say you want me to give you a source, so I did. What’s wrong with it being wallbuilders? All the documents, speeches, and quotes on that site are also historically accurate. You say that I’m throwing this stuff in the faces of historians? Which ones? Can you cite a source that says I’m wrong? I’ll give you another one, OK?

            http://www.keepgodinamerica.com

            Washington was also quoted:

            Religion and morality are the essential pillars of civil society.

            Where is the security for property, for reputation, for life, if the sense of religious obligation desert the oaths, which are the instruments of investigation in Courts of Justice?
            George Washington’s Farewell Address.

            Religion, morality, and knowledge, being necessary to good government and the happiness of mankind, schools and the means of education shall be forever encouraged.
            Northwest Ordinance, April 7, 1789

            The Smiles of Heaven can never be expected on a Nation that disregards the eternal rules of Order and Right, which Heaven itself Ordained.

            The liberty enjoyed by the people of these states of worshiping Almighty God agreeably to their conscience, is not only among the choicest of their blessings, but also of their rights.
            Annual meeting of Quakers, September 1789.

            That’s about all the time I have now, but look at that other source. Sorry, none of my sources are left leaning. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

          • http://naver samurai

            Here are more sources Kinetic. BTW tell me the names of these so called historians. I want to warn you, I can find out if they are or not.

            The Writings of George Washington, John C. Fitzpatrick, Vol. 4, pg. 347, February 26, 1776 Order; and Writings (1932), Vol. 5, pgs. 244-245, July 9, 1776 Order.

            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6z24zdvhJ3I

            The Writings of George Washington, John C, Fitzpatrick, Vol. XXX, pg. 432 n., from his address to the Synod of the Dutch Reformed Church in North America, October 9, 1789.

            Address of George Washington, President of the United States…Preparatory to His Declination, pgs. 22-23. In his Farewell Address to the United States in 1796.

            The Writings of George Washington, John C. Fitzpatrick, (1939) Vol. XXIX, pg. 410. In a letter to Marquis De Lafayette, February 7, 1788.

            FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

          • http://naver samurai
          • Jana

            Kinectic,
            If you have bought into the Revisionists History of George Washington, then you have bought into fiction. The Truth was written way before the 1900′s.

          • Jana

            kinectic,
            You stated:**************************

            I know exactly what Jefferson’s Bible is and that was my point. Jefferson looked at the “Truths” of the Bible and began to cut away. The Bible is a work of man, not God. To say it is divinely inspired and the true word ignores the truth of how the Bible came to be. The books of the Bible may have been so inspired, as may many other books that were left out, but man has picked and chosen and corrupted the words for his own power many times over.******************************

            I answered this in your post to me below.

          • Kinetic1

            samurai,
            Before I respond let me point out that I did not say that Washington was not a religious man, only that he was not the strict Christian that many of you make him out to be. I do not dispute many of the quotes you attributed to him, but take note that not one of them refers directly to Christianity, the Bible or Christ.

            In searching for the source I have found three suggested for this quote. The first two are Washington’s farewell address and his proclamation of Thanksgiving. Since both are available to read and neither contains the quote we can exclude them. The third is Washington’s prayer book, an item which historians and Washington authorities have discredited since the day it was “found”.

            Now to the list;
            Tell you what. Since you are unlikely to accept much of what I offer, I will give you just one reference that I am certain you will find acceptable.
            David Barton; “questionable Quotations”. After offering up several quotes as fact for some time, Barton was challenged enough that he finally created a list made up of those that he could no longer present as incontrovertible. From that list;

            “2. It is impossible to rightly govern the world without God and the Bible. — George Washington (unconfirmed)

            Although the modern secularists avoid his numerous religious maxims, Washington’s views on religion are easily documented. He often spoke on religious themes, to include the ruler of nations, the light of Revelation, and the symbiotic relationship between the Church and the state. There is overwhelming evidence to support this thought as belonging to Washington. However, since the quote has not been documented to date, it appears unlikely to be found. Too much research has been done on the life of Washington to see the prospect of a new quotation.

            There is a very real possibility that the quotation has its origin in an 1835 biography by James K. Paulding. In a description of Washington’s character, with supporting quotations, Paulding declares Washington to have said:

            “It is impossible to account for the creation of the universe without the agency of a Supreme Being. It is impossible to govern the universe without the aid of a Supreme Being.”

            The similarities are obvious; a paraphrase of these quotes could have easily generated the words in question. However, we have not been able to trace Paulding’s cite to a more scholarly reference. He offers no footnotes.

            I trust this is enough to satisfy?

          • http://naver samurai

            Sorry Kinetic, but as you know our history is being rewritten by the secular humanists of this day. Everything I said is fact and stands. Washington was a Christian and a devout one also. He is constantly mentioning God, the Bible, Christianity in all his speeches and written works. Remember how he even gave an order for all military personnel to observe the Sabbath as a day of rest and worship. Sounds religious to me. You prove he wasn’t and state these historians names. I’ll be waiting for your answer, though I won’t hold my breath as you won’t be able to do this. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

          • Kinetic1

            samurai,
            Clearly it’s not worth the effort. I have shown you that even David Barton will not stand behind some of his quotes. I could show you that much of the “history” written in the late 18th a early 19th century was written by religious revisionists like Parson Weems, whose poetic but questionable biography of Washington earned him a nice living but little respect among historians. I could do all this and more, but I can see it is a waste of my time. No amount of research, no level of evidence will change the mind of a man who is certain that all that was written is truth and all that is being written is a lie.

          • http://naver samurai

            Kinetic, read the posting I made farther down this thread. You’ll see the books I’ve also used. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

        • Norm

          I am not afraid of the priests. They have tried upon me all their various batteries, of pious whining, hypocritical canting, lying and slandering, without being able to give me one moment of pain.
          – Thomas Jefferson, letter to Horatio Gates Spafford, 1816

          • http://naver samurai

            “The foundation of our society and our government rests so much on the teachings of the Bible that it would be difficult to support them if faith in these teachings would cease to be practically universal in our country.”

            Calvin Coolidge

            FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

          • Albino.

            “The rights of conscience we never submitted, we could not submit. We are answerable for them to our God. The legitimate powers of government extend to such acts only as are injurious to others. But it does me no injury for my neighbour to say there are twenty gods, or no god. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg. … Reason and free enquiry are the only effectual agents against error.”

            Thomas Jefferson.

          • http://marcum1@wildblue.net coal miner

            Norm,

            Most priests are a pain in the A**s,get my drift?
            If he was a live today. I think Thomas Jefferson would had quoted it differntly.Ha Ha ha

          • http://naver sook young

            “Those who are not ruled by God, will be ruled by tyrants.”

            William Penn

            You two are so potty mouthed, why do you come here? Michelle Bachmann fits this quote very well. She and her life is ruled by God. You two are ruled by satan or some political force. Who seems to have the better life? Thank you.

            Sook Young
            Wife of the Samurai

          • http://naver samurai

            Thomas Jefferson also said:

            I am a real Christian, that is to say, a disciple of the doctrines of Jesus.

            I have always said, and will always say, that studious perusal of the sacred volume (Bible) will make us better citizens.

            Can the liberties of a nation be secure when we have removed a conviction that these liberties are a gift from God?

            God has bestowed reason as the umpire of truth.

            FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

        • http://naver samurai

          A mental disorder is when a person acts or pretends to be something they are not. Such a person is considered mentally ill. Coal dungger fits that bill by pretending to be a concerned American, when we all know he isn’t. I’m just waiting for some lib, gay loving, baby killing, marxist to start crying “theocracy.” How do you know if she is crazy, coal dungger? Are you with her and can tell if she is lying or not? Typical lib response. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

          • Kinetic1

            samurai,
            Are you now a mental health authority as well?

          • http://marcum1@wildblue.net coal miner

            samurai,

            Wrong,
            Mental disorders are not pretending,I think you and Jana got a few screws loose.

            There are several types of Mental Illness, disorder of mind. The symptoms and treatment of these vary greatly from type to type. Here is the list of such Mental Disorders,you might be interested in.

            Schizophrenia Disorder:
            Mental illness is a disorder of the mind. There are several different types of mental illnesses, with several disorders in each category. These vary from mild to severe and it is possible for these disorders to interrupt daily activities to the point that life becomes quite difficult.

            The treatment for each mental disorder varies, with some counseling and therapy is enough, but with others medication is needed with the counseling, then with the more severe psychological disorders either short term or long term hospitalization is sometimes necessary because the patient is a danger to himself or others. This is a list of mental disorders that divides each mental disorder into different categories and discusses certain disorders.

            There are four types of mental illness:

            1. Organic brain disorders
            These types of disorders are the direct result of physical (throughout the body) changes and diseases that affect the brain. These all lead to some degree of confusion and delusions in addition to anxiety and anger. Some of these diseases are:

            A. Degenerative diseases:
            1. Huntington disease-a genetic disease that consists of abnormal movements, dementia, and psychological problems.
            2. Multiple Sclerosis-An immune system disorder that affects the central nervous system (brain & spinal cord).
            3. Senile dementia-Alzheimer’s type
            4. Parkinson’s Disease-Nerve disorder that causes tremors and paralysis.

            B. Cardiovascular disorders-These are disorders related to the heart, the main one being strokes, there are several others such as TIA and disorders related to high blood pressure.

            C. Trauma induced-These are all related to brain injury, hemorrhages and concussions.

            D. Drug and Alcohol related-Intoxication, drug and alcohol withdrawal symptoms.

            2. Mood and Anxiety
            Some of the major disorders in this category are: depression, phobias, obsessive-compulsive disorders, bipolar-affective disorder, PTSD, Panic disorders. These can be so mild that others might not even be aware that the patient has them, to affecting every moment of our daily life and leading to a total disability. Some causes for these diseases are previous situations, for example: especially traumatic events, such as sexual abuse victims and war vets usually have PTSD and several other phobias in addition. Some are genetic or congenital such as Bi-polar disease.

            3. Personality disorder
            It is a range of disorders that stem from long term use of poor coping skills. These can vary, but all of them consist of behaving in situations that are different than what society expects. They are chronic poor ways of reacting to other people, and also to very stressful situations. These also are pervasive and are not flexible. These conditions seem to be stable for a period of time and then a breakdown occurs seemingly all at once.

            There are 3 clusters of personality disorder-

            1. Odd unusual Behavior – including
            a. Paranoid personality -a person feeling that everyone and everything is against them when in reality this is not true.
            b. Schizoid Personality – apathetic to others and no desire to socialize.

            2. Dramatic, emotional or erratic behavior
            These include-
            a. Antisocial personality -avoiding people
            b. Borderline personality -erratic emotions and relating to people.
            c. Histrionic personality -attention seekers-manipulators – Tends to exaggerate relationships-”everyone loves me”
            d. Narcissistic personality -self centered person

            3. Anxious fearful
            Includes:
            a. Avoidant personality disorder-fear of taking risks, gullible, hyper-sensitive, avoids all things that include social interaction.
            b. Dependent personality disorder-due to neglect-needy, has been abandoned and feel it will happen again.
            c. Obsessive-compulsive personality-anxiety disorder, repetitive, compelling thoughts and obsessions concerning things that aren’t reality (i.e. cleaning things that are already clean).

            4. Psychotic Disorders
            This is a collection of diseases that severely affect the brain and thinking processes. These people have difficulty thinking rationally and their judgments are impaired. Living their daily life becomes very, very difficult. However, for even the worst of these disorders there is treatment available. The most prevalent symptoms of these diseases are usually delusions and hallucinations. Delusions believe certain facts even after those facts have been proven wrong. Hallucinations are similar to delusions in that the belief is wrong; however hallucinations are felt with the senses and are not thoughts. “Hearing things” or “seeing things” are examples of hallucinations. Some other symptoms are: strange behaviors (may be dangerous to themselves or others), lack of personal hygiene, decreased interest in doing things, strange speech patterns that are not understandable, mood swings, relationship difficulties, slow or strange movements.

            The major Psychotic Disorders are:
            1. Schizophrenia-these people have symptoms that last longer than six months, symptoms such as delusions, and hallucinations are usual symptoms of this disorder.
            2. Schizophreniform – The people suffering from this disorder also have symptoms of Schizophrenia, but it doesn’t last longer than six months.
            3. Schizoaffective disorder-these people have both schizophrenia and other mood or affective disorders such as bipolar disorder.
            4. Delusional disorder-These people have delusions that last not less than a month. These delusions can be strange thoughts such as being followed, or, similar to paranoia, thinking others are ganging up against them.
            5. Substance-abuse psychotic disorder-psychotic episodes -that are due to alcohol or drug withdrawal, these symptoms are usually confused speech, delusions, and hallucinations.

            By Jayashree Pakhare

          • http://naver samurai

            First, no Kinetic I’m not, but that’s the definition I got from my Webster’s Dictionary. Second, true there are serveral kinds of mental illnesses coal dungger, I can’t disagree with that. Third, you say that Jana and I are crazy? Who the h*** are you to make such a statement? Care to site some sources to back that statement up or was this just another example of the libs personally attacking someone, who just mopped the floor with their wacko lib comments? Sorry coal dungger, you lose again! Remember:

            The President, Commander in Chief of the Army and Navy, desires and enjoins the orderly observance of the Sabbath by the officers and the men in the military and naval service. The importance for man and beast of the prescribed weekly rest, the sanctified rights of Christian soldiers and sailors, a becoming deference to the best sentiment of a Christian people, and a due regard for the Divine will, demand that Sunday labor in the Army and Navy be reduced to the measure of strict necessity.
            The discipline and character of the national forces should not suffer, nor the cause they defend be imperiled, by the profanation of the day or name of the Most High. “At this time of public distress”-adopting the words of Washington in 1776-”men may find enough to do in the service of God and their country without abandoning themselves to vice and immorality.” The first General Order issued by the Father of his Country after the Declaration of Independence, indicates the spirit in which our institutions were founded and should ever be defended: “The General hopes and trusts that every officer and man wil endeavor to live and act as becomes a Christian soldier defending the dearest rights and liberties of his country.”

            Abraham Lincoln

            If Lincoln and Washington wanted this, then why can’t we, Bachmann, Palin, etc., want this for our Congressman, Senators, and Obama bin Laden? Is this too much to ask for them to go by the ways of our Christian founders? Think about it before you answer. Cite sources and give facts, no rants or opinions that I would consider to be lib, gay loving, baby killing, or marxist in nature. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

          • Kinetic1

            samurai,
            From the Merriam Webster site;
            definition of MENTAL DISORDER

            : a mental or bodily condition marked primarily by sufficient disorganization of personality, mind, and emotions to seriously impair the normal psychological functioning of the individual

            Any of various conditions characterized by impairment of an individual’s normal cognitive, emotional, or behavioral functioning, and caused by social, psychological, biochemical, genetic, or other factors, such as infection or head trauma.
            The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language

            mental disorder, Any illness with a psychological origin, manifested either in symptoms of emotional distress or in abnormal behaviour. Britannica

            Hmm, not one definition like yours. You didn’t pick and choose to prove your point, did you?

        • eyeswideopen

          Can’t understand how she can claim to be 100% pro life, when she believes in the death penalty. Contradictions that most of the pro-life radicals can’t reconcile. Christians, killing other Christians who have made mistakes and are deemed beyond redemption by those “Christians”. What would Jesus say?

          • Jana

            Hmm, sometimes these sites have minds of their own on where the answers should go. It came out all the way at the bottom so i am going to reply again to
            eyes.

            eyes,
            Can’t understand how you can claim to be a Republican when you espouse lie-beral policies.
            If you bothered to read the Bible where Christians get their rules and regulations you will see that the Bible fully states that when somone commits murder, premeditated murder, they are to be sent to the Father. This is what God and Jesus commanded.
            You bleeding heart lie-berals would kill an innocent baby, but allow a murderer and a rapist to go free. Yeah, your hearts in the right place.

          • Kate8

            eyes – The Bible is clear about the penalty for murder. If you read it, you would know what Yeshua says.

          • http://naver samurai

            Eyes, are we experiencing strange and confused behavior? Being pro life has to do with defending the unborn. The death penalty is a totally different topic. Patriots, you can tell when they are on the run in full retreat. They grasp at straws and throw things at us to distract us from the fight. Eyes is a perfect example of this ignorance. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

          • Jana

            Samurai,
            Exactly. We are pro life. That means against murderers of any kind. We punish the murderers, unlike the liberals who embrace murderers and baby killers.
            You know this is really an easy concept but those who DISTORT and LIE, and TWIST the truth have BLINDED EYES.

          • http://naver sook young

            Ahhhhh, such word play to insult others and steal their rights. Thank you.

            Sook Young
            Wife of the Samurai

          • libertytrain

            Sook and Samurai – you really need to give credit to that happy go lucky fellow Rob, since these are his words and we all borrow them to throw back at him and his kind. :)

          • Jana

            Libertytrain,
            Isn’t it funny how their own words trick them up?

          • libertytrain

            Yes, I may not be the brightest bulb in the bunch, but it’s not hard to find them contradicting themselves. And then their attempt at logical excuses as to why they did same… :)

          • Jana

            libertytrain,
            For you claiming you may not be a bright bulb, you sure show a lot of wisdom and smarts on this site. ;)

          • libertytrain

            I promise I’m as dull as one of those lousy “new” lightbulbs.. But thanks for your kind words.

          • http://naver samurai

            Libertytrain, Jana, and Kate8, it’s always good to have you on these sites. I’m proud to stand beside such God fearing patriots. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

  • RH

    Norm–You are —-!!!!!!!!!!!!

  • Doc Sarvis

    She’ll need to pay more attention to facts in her campaign. Some rounding is understanable but she is way off the mark on several points she is pushing. See items in this link:
    http://factcheck.org/2011/03/gop-exaggerations-in-iowa/

    • dan

      Uh, Doc….would the omission of DEEP (water drilling)be noteworthy.
      I’ve heard her on a local talk show SEVERAL times on local issues as well as national…and she seems to be both honest AND a republican but more importantly,a conservative.There have been times that she approaches the level of intellectual honesty required of a libertarian,
      however,she is loyal to the Party that brought her….and the constitution.
      In a perfect world she would be well teamed with Ron Paul or West and isn’t the lightening rod that or drama queen that Sarah tends toward.

      • Kate8

        Doc – How can an Obama supporter have the gall to claim another is “off the mark”.

        Obama is not only off the mark, he’s off the map.

        Oh. And, according to many professional shrinks, completely off his rocker.

        • Doc Sarvis

          You expect me to believe that “professional shrinks” diagnose someone as “off his rocker”. Please provide proof of your statement.

        • Doc Sarvis

          By the way, I support America. I do not agree with all that President Obama has done or is doing.

          • Kate8

            Doc – I posted it about 3 times in the past couple of days, but here it is again, and is only one of several:

            http://www.panamalaw.org/getting_out_of_dodge_05-29-11.html

          • http://naver samurai

            So you believe in going back to the ways of our Christian founding fathers? That is one of the things that Michelle Bachmann would like to see and try to accomplish. Let’s just wait and see what happens. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

          • Kinetic1

            Kate8,
            From your posted site;
            “Of course this is difficult to do in a true professional sense since they do not have real physical access to this person. In spite of this these professionals have managed to illustrate a number of traits that are common to people suffering from Narcissistic Personality Disorder.”

            They have managed to “Illustrate a number of traits”. Well now if that’s not a true sign of professionalism, I don’t know what is! How likely would you be to accept such a diagnosis if the tables were turned?

            “PRESIDENT George Bush is suffering a dangerous mental illness, an American psychiatrist has claimed.
            In a new book, Professor Justin Frank says the US president exhibits classic signs of being a paranoid schizophrenic.” Daily Record, Oct. 2009

            “Sharon Begley offers as proof the president’s (Bush) insistence the war will succeed, despite what she calls “setback after setback.” She continues: “While it’s always risky to psychoanalyze a politician from afar, a few things in his past are consistent with the capacity for denial.” FOX News.com, 2007

            “A study funded by the US government has concluded that conservatism can be explained psychologically as a set of neuroses rooted in “fear and aggression, dogmatism and the intolerance of ambiguity”.
            As if that was not enough to get Republican blood boiling, the report’s four authors linked Hitler, Mussolini, Ronald Reagan and the rightwing talkshow host, Rush Limbaugh, arguing they all suffered from the same affliction.”

            Now clearly these stories don’t come from a rabidly right wing site like Panamalaw.org, so maybe you won’t give them any credence, but to say that this article is “proof” of the President’s mental illness is delusional in it’s self.

          • Kate8

            A. Bush was not attempting to become dictator.

            B. For all I know, he may have had a mental disorder.

            C. Bush’s mental state has nothing to do with Obama’s.

            D. Obama is guilty of fraud and worse crimes and, obviously, has no remorse, nor does he intend to come clean. He continues to thumb his nose at the people of America who want answers.

            E. It’ people like you who enable him to get away with his crimes, and carry forth with his destructive intentions.

          • http://naver sook young

            Kate8, you go girl! Thank you.

            Sook Young
            Wife of the Samurai

          • Jana

            Sook Young,
            AMEN

          • eyeswideopen

            samurai, you better hope we don’t go back to the founding fathers days, as most of them were deists, or we would have a national religion of Christianity. If we go backwards, we loose Christians and become deists, not where I want to go. Christianity is loosing members as it is. http://freethought.mbdojo.com/foundingfathers.html

          • eyeswideopen

            Kate, you are quoting an Offshore legal assistance website, to proclaim that Obama is a nut case??

          • http://naver sook young

            Sorry eyes, but our founding fathers were all Christians. My studies have confirmed this. There were 54 protestants, 2 catholics, and 29 of them had degrees in seminary. That doesn’t sound deist to me.

            “I am a Christian. I believe only in the scriptures, and in Jesus Christ my Savior.”

            Charles Thomson
            Signer of the Declaration of Independence
            Writer of the Thomson Bible

            Thank you and have a good weekend.

            Sook Young
            Wife of the Samurai

          • April

            Sook Young
            EXCELENT POINT! THANK YOU AND GOD BLESS YOU!!FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!!!

          • http://naver sook young

            Thank you April.

            Sook Young
            Wife of the Samurai

          • Kinetic1

            sook young,
            As I said to your husband, your studies must look beyond David Barton. The facts regarding our founding fathers are readily available. Those who were practicing Christians wrote of such, and those who were not were clear as well. No distortion based on upbringing, national speeches or signatures on documents noting the then standard “the year of our lord, Jesus Christ …” can truly reverse their own words.

          • http://naver sook young

            Sorry Kinetic, but I didn’t give a source. I’m sorry to disagree with you, but we were founded a Christian nation and not a secular state. If you think differently, then cite a source so I look at it and answer you. Sorry, there’s no secular humanism in our house. Thank you.

            Sook Young
            Wife of the Samurai

            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i3pSTkQdUI0

    • Thor

      Use a left-wing source, get a left leaning result, Doc. They don’t come much further left than Annenburg…and the 200 permits don’t count. They were already issued when Obama came on board. They simply released them in from the ‘temporary freeze’…or, don’t you read more widely than left wing think-tanks and MSM?

    • babybikerbabe

      I would no more rely on factcheck.org, a far-left liberal backed “unbiased” site as I would Wikipedia.org for an unbiased presentation on the tax protest movement or global warming (psuedo)science.

      Go sell your snake oil somewhere else.

      • Jana

        babybikerbabe,

        I knew before I even came on this site that people like coal miner, Gary, and Norm would be on here full strength. They are paid to get on this site to stir up trouble and spout their anti God rhetoric.

        • http://naver samurai

          Don’t worry Jana, they can’t beat a bunch of God fearing patriots. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

          • Jana

            samurai,
            AMEN and PRAISE THE LORD!

          • April

            AMEN Samurai!!

          • http://naver sook young

            아멘 여보! Amen, honey!

  • Beatrice Vajgart

    It is of the utmost importance to have a president leading this country whose life centers around God.
    It is also important to maintain our sovereignity, have national security which includes protecting all our borders from terroists or other bad apples entering our country illegally.
    We don’t need the expense of a second language, anchor babies, amnesty, etc., etc.
    I sincerely pray that Congressman Bachman is strong on all conservative points.

  • LibRep

    This witch with a capital ‘B’ voted YES on the Patriot Act last Thursday. She is a wolf in TEA Party clothing.

    • Ben

      You think she may be a RINO?

    • http://naver samurai

      So did every Lib in Washington, so what’s your point? FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

  • Ben

    Is she Pro Israel? Pro U.S. Constitution? Restore the Space Program?
    Will she get rid of EPA, Federal Reserves, and a bunch of silly committees and Agencies?

    Eh? Huh? Well?

    • Richard Pawley

      Ben, We are to broke to restore the space program. It is done for the rest of our lives. I don’t know if anyone can do what needs to be done. I was just thinking yesterday, that with the amount of money we have squandered in the past two and a half years we could have built a colony on the moon or sent a man to Mars and back, or paid off all the mortgages on all the homes in the country. Instead the Democrats and Republicans gave the money to the owners of the FED and assorted other banks in this nation and overseas, who invested it to make money for themselves. If they were ever going to give it back wouldn’t that make the deficit decrease? They say the car companies are paying back the money we gave them but the deficit keeps going up. I have already heard talk of the next time they have to raise the debt after they raise it later in the year. We will need it to rebuild Los Angeles after it is destroyed from the “Big One” and that will take a trillion dollars or more.
      Five years ago in my autography I predicted we were headed for a major stock market crash and a “Greater Depression” and in that book and in my more recent one I predicted that the economic crisis that was coming would make the Great Depression look like a walk in the park. Someone must have read one of those books because I’ve seen that expression a time or two lately. Well, the first stock market crash has happened and our jobless recovery is still floundering around. If all those trillions could have been used to buy back our debt wouldn’t we owe trillions less, or is it all phony coupon money that doesn’t really have any value anyway?
      We have more stuff than anyone in the world but are we happier? It will be interesting to see who gets elected in 17 months and how long the country can stand more of the same, and if ANYONE can keep us from having the 250% plus inflation in things we really need and use – while the deflation in houses continues. In any event we had darn well better elect someone who has input to God’s wisdom and not someone who believes they are God (the most common mental disease) because it will take more than one miracle to save this nation as we have known it. I’ve read that only two million out of 310 million in this country are preparing for what is coming as a result of our insistence on spending money we don’t have. How far in debt can we go before the dollar becomes worth less than the paper it’s printed on? I remember as a kid when ground beef was 33 cents a pound and a gallon of gas was only 23 cents, and a banana split with a whole banana and three different scopes of ice cream with all the toppings was 29 cents. Of course that 29 cents was three silver dimes and the value of three silver dimes today will buy you a huge banana split or well over a pound of ground beef. Today most people don’t even have a month’s worth of food on hand and more than 43 million are already slaves to the government living on food stamps. That sure doesn’t sound like a rich nation to me. In my last book I mentioned how the Army is training 20,000 troops to quell the riots when the money stops. And we, once the most prosperous nation on earth, instead have become the most in debt nation on earth. We have counted on foreigners to support us for the past few decades but they are wising up and selling us stuff instead of buying from us. Within this decade the economy of China will surpass the USA unless something really big and unforeseen happens.
      Those who know their God can pray about these things and they will know what to do for their families. The rest will have to depend on the Government which is depending on higher taxes from unemployed people to keep them propped up. This would be almost funny if it weren’t so tragic. Will the Progressives here just pass a law like the Progressives did in the Old Soviet Union, that it is illegal to be unemployed? That would solve our problem instantly. Instead they just fudge the statistics so that nothing coming out of Washington is believable and they just continue to create money out of thin air. The goal, of course, is to make all citizens of the world equal, social justice they call it, and the only way that is possible is if we make them all slaves. That is the goal of those who do not believe in the U.S. Constitution or that man is capable of governing himself. Of course they don’t call it that. While they support slavery they talk about freedom. They talk of the evils of Israel and the United States, but it doesn’t sound good to be against something so let’s just say we are for Palestinian freedom. Let’s call it support for the poor murderous Palestinians. Help them continue to attack Israel until Israel fights back so the media can blame Israel, the only true democracy in the middle east. Then eliminate knowledge of the true God and install Sharia Law world wide. This has begun in politically correct Europe (and Detroit has 300,000 who advocate it). Well, it’s a gorgeous day and I’m off to enjoy it some. World War III (quite different from WWII) may be at our doorstep but life is to be enjoyed while it can be. Praise God!

      • Ben

        Hello Richard, Thanks for your reply. Very informative. :)

        Which book is that? ‘Leaving South Carolina”(2006),
        “The Last Days of the Late Great United States: And the Great Famine that Followed” by Richard Pawley (Jun 3, 2009)

        I agree that the Space Program is expensive, but if we had not squandered money like we did the last 2 1/2 years as you mentioned, it would be worth keeping. Mankind explores. I wish we explored best way to get out of this runt we are in.

        WWIII? I doubt it. Armageddon? Definitely!

        Who would your pick be for 2012? Bachmann? Cain? As long as they are not RINOs.
        Best bet is a Constitutional Party candidate.
        Blessings,
        B

  • Jim Fox

    If Bachmann is truly 100% pro-life, she would not be for pre-emptive/aggressive/unconstitutional wars as well as the so-called “Patriot” Act which is the flipside of warfare/security coin. Heads we and the world lose lives, tails we lose liberty. It’s a lose/lose scenario. Non-interventionism is a win/win in that Heads, we save American and international lives overseas; tails, we save our liberties at home. Let’s replace the deceitful warfare/security state coin with the Constitutional Coin both symbolically and literally (actually gold and silver) and thus replace lose/lose with win/win.

  • dan

    Bea,Ben and Jim…excellent points and I agree.I’m disappointed in the
    Patriot Act power grab,too…but I can see that Repubs aren’t confident /informed enough to throw the baby out with the bathwater because they’ve been spoon-fed disinformation…I imagine most of them actually believe the statistics that they’re furnished….that’s the problem of isolating them in DC and the partisan media.They don’t have time to ferret out the truth on the net…and apparently,neither do their aids.

    • Kate8

      dan – I think that is the problem. Many people in Congress do believe the information furnished them, like the “war on terror” and the big bogeyman.

      These people are US, except that they have the guts to step into the line of fire. They can only operate from the info they are given.

      • babybikerbabe

        Wow – do you REALLY believe that our Congress people and Senators who voted for the Patriot Act did so out of a love of country? That they actually believed they were PROTECTING Americans or America?

        PUH-leese!!!!

        The Patriot Act is nothing more than a power grab and form of additional control over the average Citizen. Warrant-less wire-taps, unrestricted views into our financial dealings. COME ON!!!

        It’s almost getting worn out with it’s repeated use: “Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety” – Benjamin Franklin

        • Kate8

          bbb- If you’re talking to me, I totally agree with you.

          No, I don’t think Congress cares about us. Quite the opposite, with maybe a couple of exceptions. All I’m saying is that they aren’t any smarter than the rest of us, and are not always told the truth, either. Nor are they all completely evil.

          They, like anyone else, make decisions based on what information they receive. I’m sure there are many mitigating factors and agendas that go into the mix, too.

          I trust NONE of them. But then, we all live in a world of perceptions.

    • Ben

      dan,
      I think the Republicans in Congress are trying to take it easy as not to botch up the 2012 election. Either that, or they screwed us Americans with the passage of Patriot Acts (assuming they passed it) and raising the debt ceiling.

      Take care,
      Ben

  • Omawazzi

    Bachmann is a Basket Case and should be wearing a Dunce Cap on her head, because she can’t get her facts straight.
    I’d much rather have Sarah Palin for a President than Bachmann.
    Sarah Palin is a NUT also, but she is at the least charismatic and entertaining.
    God help us all if either one of them could become President.

    The Republican electoral line up is like a collection of Circus Clowns.
    So far there is no one in the race that can possibly beat Obama.

    • Kate8

      Oma- OMG. You just described Obama, in spades.

      And yet, it’s okay for him to hold that position.

      What a joke. Every accusation and criticism of the Rightwing potentials is personified and magnified in Obama.

      I don’t get the double-standard.

      • eddie47d

        Kate; You all say things about Obama but won’t accept criticism on Bachmann or whoever is the candidate of the week. I have no problem with Michelle having faith in God and draws strength from it. Her vote on the Patriot Act shows that she won’t live up to Libertarian stndards and that should rile you. That is the double standard.

        • JeffH

          I see “Libertarian” seems to be your new “buzz” word. Kate8 hadn’t mentioned “Lbertarian” it in her post and Bachmann isn’t a Libertarian either. Your arguement became moot from that point on. Thus, there was no double standard.

          • Ben

            Hell no to Libertarians. I have read their party platform. Hell no to them as well as the Socialist Party in Democrat’s clothing. Them Democrats needs to wake up and tell Obama to leave.

            Ben

          • eddie47d

            Leave it to Jeff to butt in . Kate 8 is a Libertarian and so are you (sometimes). Are you embarrassed by it’s usuage? Maybe you’re really a Republican in Libertarian clothing. That way you can play both sides of the equation.

          • JeffH

            Grief is perhaps an unknown territory for you. You might feel both helpless and hopeless without a sense of a “map” for the journey. Confusion is the hallmark of a transition. To rebuild both your inner and outer world is a major project.
            Anne Grant

          • JeffH

            eddie says “leave it to jeff to butt in”. Is that not exactly what you did to Kate8?

            “Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye make clean the outside of the cup and of the platter, but within they are full of extortion and excess.”

          • http://naver sook young

            That is so ture JeffH. I like the quotes and Bible reference. Good job. Eddie, look at these then you tell me is the liberals follow these sayings.

            America was founded by people who believed that God was their rock of safety. I recognize that we must be cautious in claiming that God is on our side, but I think it’s all right to keep asking if we’re on His side.

            Ronald Reagan

            Our laws and out institutions must necessarily be based upon and embody the teachings of the Redeemer of mankind. It is impossible that it should be otherwise. In this sense and to this extent, our civilizations and our institutions are emphatically Christian.

            Illinois Supreme Court, 1883
            Richmond V. More

            I’ll be waiting for you to answer me. Thank you.

            Sook Young
            Wife of the Samurai

            Oh, also listen to this song.

            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=URpheZUB90Y&feature=related

        • Kate8

          eddie – I don’t care if you criticize Bachmann or anyone else. I expect it.

          What I don’t get is how you criticize conservatives for lack of intelligence, background, experience, etc. etc…and yet, these are all things Obama has even less of than the most neophyte conservative.

          Actually, Bachmann, Palin, and any of the others are people of established careers, lengthy (and OPEN) resumes, and a desire to do what’s right for our nation. And they can think without a teleprompter.

          • http://naver samurai

            Well said, fellow patriot! Since Bachmann and Palin have done so much more than Obama bin Laden, they are very scared of them. They just don’t want their “messiah” kicked out of office. My next doo neighbor’s goat would make a better president than Obama bin Laden. Here’s a link about his birth certificate:

            http://www.patriotupdate.com/videos/obama-birth-certificate-faked-in-adobe-illustrator-official-proof

            FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

          • http://naver samurai

            Also, there is this one:

            http://www.impeachobamacampaign.com/sign-the-petition/

            FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

          • eyeswideopen

            Kate, you need to remove Palin, from your statement, as she quit in middle of term and uses her hand as a telepromter. Or have you forgotten those facts?

          • Kate8

            eyes – So what if Palin writes notes on her hand? At least they’re her own notes. She actually understands what she’s talking about.

            Hardly comparable to a teleprompter. Obama goes completely blubbering without it.

            All speakers have always used notes.

          • http://naver sook young

            Sorry Eyes Wide Open, but you are lying again. She did read note from her hands, but she was making fun of Obama. She would even go from hand to hand saying uhh, hmm, uhh, just like Obama did on his speech and you can’t deny it. Thank you.

            Sook Young
            Wife of the Samurai

          • eyeswideopen

            Snook, so you admit she reads her hands, not once,but a few times, (just this weekend she was caught with writting on her hands) and you then call me a liar?? What kind of logic are you using?

          • http://naver sook young

            So? Sometimes at work I have to write things on my hands so I don’t forget. When I get back to the nurses station I transfer it to a piece of paper or a chart. Is this necessarily a bad thing to you?
            Thank you.

            Sook Young
            Wife of the Samurai

    • Jay

      Omawaazi, you sound scared!!! Don’t worry, we’ll let you sit at the back of the bus right next to your leprous and demented messiah!

      • Omawazzi

        For all of you who think I’m crazy about Obama, you’ve got it wrong.
        What I’m saying is that I see no-one in our Government now running for Political Office or in the House/Senate, who is capable and really willing to do the hard things it takes to turn this country around.

        It certainly isn’t Bachmann or Palin, nor the yes man Romney.
        At this time I see no-one who can beat Obama.
        We never get a good choice, but only a choice between one self serving political Party or the other.
        It is all about Party Politics and not the people.

        Ron Paul just may be the right choice.
        However, the media is not on his side, but instead make him out to be a Radical Laughable Presidential Candidate.
        He may do well, but he will not win, due to the Media criticisms.

        • Jay

          Fair enough, either way, obama has got go! We can no longer allow him to do further damage. He is an absolute menace!!!

        • Kate8

          Oma – If the media would expose the truth about Obama, he’d be the most laughable (but dangerous) of all.

          Why is this man so unbeatable? BECAUSE THE MEDIA PORTRAYS HIM AS SOMETHING HE IS NOT.

          He is a inept, psychopathic, sociopathic low-life.

          And THIS is unbeatable.

          • babybikerbabe

            Actually I find him simpler than that – I think he’s a narcissistic elitist. Self centered, vain, no class, poor mannered….

            If not the total self-deluded God-complex driven loser I describe, he just simply evil.

          • Kate8

            bikerbabe – Did you see this?

            http://www.panamalaw.org/getting_out_of_dodge_05-29-11.html

            A professional assessment of O’s character.

        • Allan Halbert

          As far as I’m concerned, people who say that no potential candidate is good enough or electable enough, are in effect saying there is no point in voting…which leads me to suspect they are not conservatives. Candidates have flaws and we look for the best character and matching of positions possible. But then we must still make a choice if we still WANT choice in this country.

        • eyeswideopen

          Omawazzi, he wont’ do well after stating that people should be jailed for attending a radical speech or for where they have traveled. He is failing in his professed ideology.

  • s c

    I’ll give her the benefit of the doubt. By comparison, whoever ‘told Bubba Clinton, Herr Obummer and Al ‘duh’ Gore to “get involved” in politics, it was NOT God.

    • Guest

      @S C: I agree wholeheartedly. The Dems listen to “voices” but the voices they listen to are power,greed and spitefulness. They don’t REFER to these voices as God, nor do they even REFEr to the voices. They simply obey them. The definition of the word ‘god’ is as follows:

      god/gäd/

      Noun: (in Christianity and other monotheistic religions) The creator and ruler of the universe and source of all moral authority; the Supreme Being.

      Who or what is the ruler of the Dems’/NeoCons’ universe? Who or what is the source of all their moral authority? They hear their voices too, and obey…

      • Kate8

        This is being blown all out of proportion, and it will ruin her chances.

        She doesn’t hear voices. She said she felt a calling.

        There is a vast difference here.

        • http://deleted Claire

          Kate8–The MSM will paint Bachmann as a loser, they will go after her like King Kong.

        • Kinetic1

          Kate8,
          Your right, I haven’t seen any instances where Bachmann was directly quoted as saying God spoke to her or that God called her to run for president. She did, however use those words back in 2006 in regards to her run for the Senate, and then in 2009 she said she would only run for President if God called her to run. So know when she says she has felt a calling, those words come back.

          • Jana

            Kinectic,
            You are right and sadly it is a term used in the Christian vernacular that a non Christian could not comprehend.

          • eyeswideopen

            Kinetic1, here is site that you should be interested in. Yes, she does claim that God speaks to her. http://blog.lib.umn.edu/smith2174/cd6/2006/10/does_god_speak_to_michele_bach.html

            This was from 2006, so her reputation and actions are running true to form.

          • Kinetic1

            Eyes wide,
            Yes, that was what I was referring to. Even though she didn’t use those words recently, she has in the past and it’s only natural to assume that when she says God has called her, given her past conversations she may mean literally.

          • Jana

            God speaks to all of us in many ways. Not like hearing voices, but a stirring in our heart over a certain subject, and especially by his WORD, THE BIBLE.
            Mock and laugh all you want, its your loss if you are not in tune with the Lord and cannot ‘hear’ from HIM.

          • http://naver sook young

            That’s right Jana. They still have a lot to learn. Thank you.

            Sook Young
            Wife of the Samurai

          • April

            Sook
            It is sad but eyes and Kinetic1 and coal miner, don’t want to learn, they just like to argue, condemn, and hear themselves talk.

          • Kinetic1

            Jana,
            Why is it that Christians like yourself find it impossible to accept that others can search and study and come to a different conclusion than you? Why do you insist that we d not want to learn?

            Please note my first post in this string where I said;

            “I do understand the conviction that comes with that feeling of certainty that some would refer to as a “calling”. What bothers me is when a current or potential leader makes the claim that “God” told me to do this. Sure, it could be a good person with that sense of conviction, but more often than not it’s a claim used by shysters to lead the religious down the garden path, by killers to excuse their actions and by politicians looking for some often unwarranted support.”

            I mean that. I do understand what you are expressing and I accept that you believe that it is the “voice of God” guiding you. Not all of us see it that way. It is not that we are ignorant to what the Bible says, only that we choose another path. The issue here is that your belief, not unlike the Muslims that you revile insists that all who do accept are wrong. Well I’m sorry, but I just don’t accept a God who would judge me by my faith and not my works. I do not accept the teachings of men who would require me to follow their words or be cursed by God. I suppose in your eyes I have much to learn.

          • Jana

            Kinectic,

            Why do non Christians likey yourself find it impossible to accept that we have searched and studied and have come to a different conclusion than you have?

            I also understand your conviction to either not believe in God or to beleive that the Bible is not the Word of God.

            You see Kinectic, God did create us, and He is not stupid as you would imply in that He has given us rules and laws and regulations to live by and then allowed man to corrupt those laws. He set in place certain ‘keepsakes’ of His Word.

            Another point you ask in essance how we can hear from God? When you bother to study His Word, and get to know Him, you start learning how to hear from Him.
            Sure there are psychos out there that kill and say “God told me to do it”, but they do not serve the One True God, they are hearing either from derangement, or from satan who is a great imitator of God.

            This is why those of us who do love the Lord our God study His Word so we will know the difference between what satan is trying to tell us to do, (because it is something that would NOT honor God) from what God is leading us to do. We spend much time in prayer also before leaping out and doing something, to make sure it is God we heard and not the deceiver. This still doesn’t mean that we don’t make mistakes at times, but as we grow in knowledge of the Word, and of God, and even of His personality, we learn and know right from wrong.
            Another major point is IF someone comes out and says I have been called of God to do such and such, we then are to use proper discernment, that we have gained from studying God’s Holy Word. We know them by their fruits. We know them by their actions.

          • Jana

            Kinectic, to answer the last part of your post where you said, you are not ignorant of what the Bible says but have chosen another path.

            That is your right. God did not create us to be robots. He created us to love Him and honor Him, but if you choose another path have at it. Skip merrily down your own way, and I say good luck to you.

            Actually, if you are sincerely trying to find the truth, it shows that you have NOT truly studied the Bible, nor truly sought God’s face in the matter because if you would have you could not come to the conclusion that the Bible is made up by man.

            Sure, some versions of the Bible have been greatly distorted. That is why we use the King James Version as we have tools that can take us back to the original words in Hebrew, Greek, Aramaic, and Latin to help us understand.

            Kinectic, you are a good man, and probably do many good deeds and works. But you are wrong in the fact that the Bible is not the Word of God nor that He is going to judge us by how we live on this earth today, but He isn’t going to give us any guidelines or instructions, or that He is too weak to keep His word safe.

            Eph 2:8-9
            8 for by grace have ye been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, (it is) the gift of God;
            9 not of works, that no man should glory

            Gal 2:16
            16 yet knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law but through faith in Jesus Christ, even we believed on Christ Jesus, that we might be justified by faith in Christ, and not by the works of the law: because by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

            I just found too many scriptures (that I know you don’t beleive in, but would if you truly studied God’s Word) to put them all in here.
            Yes, the Bible also says “faith without works is void.” But we can’t have one without the other.

            Matt 7:22-23
            22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy by thy name, and by thy name cast out demons, and by thy name do many mighty works?
            23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

          • Kinetic1

            Jana,
            “Why do non Christians likey (sic) yourself find it impossible to accept that we have searched and studied and have come to a different conclusion than you have?”

            Why would you ask such a question? Nowhere in my post did I say that you are wrong and have simply failed to study enough. Nowhere did I say that God was “stupid” or that you will suffer some terrible fate if you do not conform to my way of thinking. I’m fine with you believing what you do so long as you do not impose your beliefs on me, but listen to yourself. Listen to the sarcasm in your words.

            “That is your right. God did not create us to be robots. He created us to love Him and honor Him, but if you choose another path have at it. Skip merrily down your own way, and I say good luck to you.”

            Skip merrily? I’m not an ignorant dunce blindly ignoring the commands of an omnipotent power that will crush me for failing to head his word. I just don’t choose to accept the idea of a narcissistic God who would “create(d) us to love Him and honor Him.” I would like and hope that my children love me, but I didn’t have them just for that purpose.

            You continue to try and impress upon me that you and others who have “truly” studied the Bible know that I am wrong.

            “Actually, if you are sincerely trying to find the truth, it shows that you have NOT truly studied the Bible, nor truly sought God’s face in the matter because if you would have you could not come to the conclusion that the Bible is made up by man.”

            That is your view. That is YOUR conclusion. The Mormons go so far as to suggest that God will never accept you once you have been introduced to their belief and then decide not to embrace it. I refused to accept such a concept from them and I refuse to accept it from you. The very fact that Christian leaders tell us that only those who accept their truth know the truth is reason enough for me to search elsewhere, but that’s just me.

            I’m not trying to convince you that I am right and you are wrong, only that we each have the right to live our life as we believe and should not impose that on the other. That is why I would NEVER want anyone so devoted to their religion to be our President. In the early days of our nation each of the 13 colonies had their own state supported religion. Puritans in Massachusetts, Quakers in Pennsylvania, Catholics in Maryland. The tensions created by the rival Christian denominations would have torn us apart if not for the wisdom of a few men. They knew back then what we know today; our nation would not survive if the religion of one group were allowed to dictate the laws for all.

          • Jana

            Kinectic,
            I took your own question and turned it around on you.
            Your question was:
            *************************************
            Kinetic1 says:

            June 5, 2011 at 5:38 am

            Jana,
            Why is it that Christians like yourself find it impossible to accept that others can search and study and come to a different conclusion than you? Why do you insist that we d not want to learn?
            *****************************************************************
            My question:
            Jana says:

            June 5, 2011 at 12:14 pm

            Kinectic,

            Why do non Christians likey yourself find it impossible to accept that we have searched and studied and have come to a different conclusion than you have?
            **************************************************************

            So I would ask you why you would ask that question?
            You are the one on here trying to convince us that the Bible isn’t real, you are the one on here trying to convince everyone that George Washington wasn’t a Christian.

            If you truly don’t believe it, why does it matter so much to you?
            All you have to do is say ok, that’s their opinion, but no, you keep pressing it. If you press it I will answer and so it seems, will Samurai.
            ******************************************************
            You asked me: Why would you ask such a question? Nowhere in my post did I say that you are wrong and have simply failed to study enough. Nowhere did I say that God was “stupid” or that you will suffer some terrible fate if you do not conform to my way of thinking. I’m fine with you believing what you do so long as you do not impose your beliefs on me, but listen to yourself. Listen to the sarcasm in your words.*********************************

            You twisted a few of those words. I did not say I didn’t study enough, although I probably haven’t.

            With you keep insisting that the Bible isn’t truly God’s Word, then that is exactly what you are implying.

            Yes, I beleive you have the right to beleive what you want and that was what I was trying to convey, and I wasn’t trying to be sarcastic. In fact you were quick to jump to that erroneous conclusion. I respect you and would not be sarcastic with you.

            I will tell you that I feel just as passionately about this subject as you do. You asked the question, you addressed me about it, so I answered you. As long as you ask I will answer.
            As I said before, I think you are a good man, and I realize you refuse (YOUR WORDS) to believe so ok fine. YOU HAVE THAT RIGHT. I also have the right to stand up for what I believe, and I always will stand up for what I believe to you or anyone else. I am just made that way.

  • Jay

    She better have tough skin. The liberal left controlled main stream media will attack her with no mercy, and off-course, the 41% of the American zombie population that consider main stream media as one speaking the oracles of God, will as well be used and manipulated in the demonizing of Michele Bachmann. The left-wing god-less zombies are beginning stir and are becoming enraged.

    • JeffH

      Bachmann and Ron Paul are my top choices to be the next POTUS. Bachmann is tough as nails, a true conservative, highly intelligent, graduated with a law degree, former IRS attorney. She and her husband have parented 23 foster children and she is an extremely grounded person.

      The progressives/socialist/communists/Marxists and their MSM have and will attempt to trash and demonize Bachmann and any other percieved threat to their supreme rule.
      They’ve alredy started looking for trash on Chris Christie and he says he has no interest in running for POTUS…brace yourself Michelle.

      • Jay

        If only the progressives/socialist/communists/Marxists and their MSM would use their evil genius for good! Blind retched fools. But I like Michele, she’s though, intelligent and has a heart for God and country. Oh boy, I’m starting to sound like our buddy Samurai.

        • JeffH

          Jay, that’s a good thing :) FOR GOD AND COUNTRY

          • Jay

            You got Jeff, FOR GOD AND COUNTRY, and in that order!!!

        • http://naver samurai

          Thank you, fellow patriots! Keep up the good fight! It is true of what you two say. Bachmann is all those things and more. I think, like Claire said, the MSM are already trying to put their cross hairs on her. I know they have her in their sights, but she seems to be able to take anything these morons dish out (I don’t care if that word is removed.). I’ve already been chastised by Bob and his staff for insulting people on the lefty wacko side of the fence. Anyway, another thing is that they may be affraid of having a woman president. I figure why not? We have women that are in the Senate, Congress, and on the president’s staff (Not counting Boxer, Pelosi, Feindyke, Hillary, etc., because they aren’t real women.). If Bachmann doesn’t get selected, I would like to see Sarah have a shot at it. If Ron Paul gets nominated by the GOP, then I’ll vote for him. Just imagine, we have a chance at making history with a woman serving in the White House as POTUS or VP. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

  • Kenai123

    Any person who has been shot in the head will take years to recover.
    After that recovery the nation might be able to take a look at her to see if she is electable but all this cannot happen by 2012.

  • Norm

    He who knows nothing is closer to the truth than he whose mind is filled with falsehoods and errors.
    Thomas Jefferson

    • http://naver samurai

      Almighty God, Who has given us this good land for our heritage; We humbly beseech Thee that we may always proves ourselves a people mindful of Thy favor and glad to do Thy will. Bless our land with honorable ministry, sound learning, and pure manners.

      Thomas Jefferson

      This is the opposite of all on the left. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

  • Jay

    The Department of Homeland Security has been testing new technology that allegedly can “predict” whether or not you’re about to commit a crime.

    This dystopian project is called Future Attribute Screening Technology (FAST). Using special cameras and sensors, FAST measures your heart rate, breathing, body temperature, eye movement, fidgeting and other physiological phenomena, then processes the information with a computer algorithm (just like an Internet search engine) to decide whether or not you are a threat.

    Seriously, can it get any creepier?

    Terrorist ‘pre-crime’ detector field tested in United States

    Future Attribute Screening Technology (FAST), a US Department of Homeland Security (DHS) programme designed to spot people who are intending to commit a terrorist act, has in the past few months completed its first round of field tests at an undisclosed location in the northeast, Nature has learned.

    The tactic has drawn comparisons with the science-fiction concept of ‘pre-crime’, popularized by the film Minority Report, in which security services can detect someone’s intention to commit a crime. Unlike the system in the film, FAST does not rely on a trio of human mutants who can see the future. But the programme has attracted copious criticism from researchers who question the science behind it.
    In lab tests, the DHS has claimed accuracy rates of around 70%, but it remains unclear whether the system will perform better or worse in field trials. “The results are still being analysed, so we cannot yet comment on performance,” says John Verrico, a spokesman for the DHS. “Since this is an ongoing scientific study, tests will continue throughout coming months.”

    Some scientists question whether there really are unique signatures for ‘malintent’ — the agency’s term for the intention to cause harm — that can be differentiated from the normal anxieties of travel. “Even having an iris scan or fingerprint read at immigration is enough to raise the heart rate of most legitimate travellers,” says Ormerod.

    As for where precisely FAST is being tested, that for now remains a closely guarded secret. The DHS says that although the first round was completed at the end of March, more testing is in the works, and the agency is concerned that letting people know where the tests are taking place could affect the outcome. “I can tell you that it is not an airport, but it is a large venue that is a suitable substitute for an operational setting,” says Verrico.

    Homeland security deploys mind-reading hardware
    The US Department of Homeland Security has begun field testing new technology which it thinks can identify people who intend to commit a terrorist act, just by looking at them.

    The gear apparently uses uses remote sensors to measure physiological properties, such as heart rate and eye movement.

    It has been in development since 2008 and it apparently can tell your intent to cause harm.
    It is all based on a form of witchdoctor psychology called behavioural science. These boffins have the cunning theory that someone with malintent may act strangely, show mannerisms out of the norm, or experience extreme physiological reactions based on the extent, time, and consequences of the event.

    Homeland Security’s FAST technology design so that coppers can basically arrest anyone who looks them funny. So no change there then.

    The DHS claimed the machine was accurate 70 percent of the time the other 30 percent will probably get out of Guantanamo Bay in a couple of years.

    Source of article: http://the-classic-liberal.com/department-homeland-security-pre-crime-scan-malintent/

  • Thor

    “In an interview with Iowa Public Television, Bachmann was asked if she…had received a divine calling to run for President.”

    Bachmann did not make it the issue; the interviewer did. Once it is out that a person is a Christian then that becomes the issue—as though it were a specious pathology that poses some unspecified threat. Socialism may be viewed as a threat to our way of life—Christianity, I don’t think so, although it does lay the ethical and moral groundwork that should oppose socialism.

    Norm, coal miner and the rest of you Christian-bashers: rational folk attack that which they view as a threat. Ordinarily, omnivorous humans do not attack vegetarians, for example, because their vegetarianism poses no threat to their omnivorousness. Attacking them for no reason other than their vegetarianism when it does not pose a threat would be considered irrational by rational folk. One can make the same argument for Christianity. If you can make the case that it somehow poses a threat to you, then fire away but include the nature of the threat in your remarks; otherwise, you do two things—one, you demonstrate a sublime ignorance of Christian beliefs and, two, you prove how irrational you can be by attacking something that poses no threat to you or your belief system. The ‘hearing voices’ and ‘running for Pope’ remarks are nothing less than pure ad hominem. If that’s all you got then if you can’t be polite, be silent. There are plenty of ‘nutty’ beliefs held by those in Washington that pose genuine threats to our way of life…we are just waiting patiently for some savvy reporter to ask the right question to expose them. Then you guys can vent.

    • Jay

      Thor, that was wonderfully stated, and very logical. I doubt that will get through to them!

    • Norm

      Thor

      Think of how many religions attempt to validate themselves with prophecy. Think of how many people rely on these prophecies, however vague, however unfulfilled, to support or prop up their beliefs. Yet has there ever been a religion with the prophetic accuracy and reliability of science? [Carl Sagan, The Demon-Haunted World: Science As a Candle in the Dark]

      • Allan Halbert

        Reliability? You are apparently unaware of how many scientific “truths” were accidentally discovered, or vehemently opposed by the scientific establishment, or are quietly discredited and discarded on a cyclical basis. Unfortunately, scientists are not particularly humble, and do not admit bias and shortsightedness when these events occur. That is why average people, using their common sense and wisdom, need to oversee science in the end and not mistake it for a God.

      • http://naver samurai

        Abnorm, are you an ostrich? Do you have your head buried somewhere?
        Since you’re a big fan of science, why who knows? Here’s a question for you: “What proof and evidence can you provide that proves atheism is accurate and correct?” Not saying you are an atheist, but they tend to be the ones that rely heavily on science and not on God.

        “Providence has given to our people the choice of their rulers and it is the duty, as well as the privilege and interest of our Christian nation to select and prefer Christians for their rulers (NO CINOs).”
        John Jay.

        This means we should chhose someone other than Obama bin Laden for that fact alone. Here is a song you and the fellow patriots my like:

        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=URpheZUB90Y&feature=related

        FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

      • Thor

        Norm, thanks for the response. I have a tip for you: science and the foundation of every confidence you may have in it–just like theocentric religions–depends exclusively on two things: one, observed phenomena that purport to describe the subject under study, which for religion is human nature, for science physical relationships of matter–and the second is belief in things unseen. The unseen element, that which one must have faith in, for religion is God; for science, the electron. No one has ever seen one and you never will if you believe Heisenberg. The electron must exist because the atomic nucleus demands it; and God must exist because people demand Him. You have staked your claim on but one half of the equation for existence and I have staked mine on both.

  • Kinetic1

    If God told Huckabee not to run and Bachman that she should, that pretty much wraps it up, right? If we are to believe her, as we believed Bush when he claimed “I’ve heard the call, I believe God wants me to run for president.” it’s a done deal and we can expect another 8 years of divinely inspired leadership. But can we survive another 8 years of “God” directing our President to invade nations like Iraq, relaxing regulations on the banking industry and the oil industry and the coal industry and on and on? Can we afford to spend billions on private firms to feed our troops, build their facilities and fight our wars, especially when they end up electrocuting our soldiers with faulty wiring?

    Clearly I’m not of the fundamentalist ilk, but I do understand the conviction that comes with that feeling of certainty that some would refer to as a “calling”. What bothers me is when a current or potential leader makes the claim that “God” told me to do this. Sure, it could be a good person with that sense of conviction, but more often than not it’s a claim used by shysters to lead the religious down the garden path, by killers to excuse their actions and by politicians looking for some often unwarranted support. There are occasionally those who make the claim and then prove themselves to be strong, compassionate leaders who do well for their followers, but they may just as easily convince them to drink the Koolaid or to give up their worldly goods since the end of the world is on May 21st (held over till October 21st by popular demand.) There are plenty of snakes in the garden.

    So, was Bachman really called by God? Is she a divinely inspired leader who will rescue us from all our current troubles, a delusional recovering sinner who believes she now has the answers or a manipulating politician looking to take advantage of the religious tendancies of the TEA Party. I don’t know and I’m not willing to pay the price to find out.

    • JeffH

      I guess Bachmann can’t count on your vote.

      Speaking of snakes in the garden, do you have a favorite candidate in mind that doesn’t include GOD in their bio? I’d like to hear who it is, if you would.

      • Jana

        He probably wants to keep Obama.

        • http://naver samurai

          Oh darn! Not another sheeple that wants another 4 years of Obama bin Laden. This is for Kinetic. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

      • Kinetic1

        JeffH,
        I don’t know that I’ll have much choice. President Obama has let me down on several issues, but I doubt that the Democratic leadership will allow any other candidate to oppose him in 2012. It would take a HUGE issue to knock him out of the spot.

        As for Republicans, I have yet to hear from one I would even consider. This whole “the county is broke, let’s cut taxes on the wealthy and the corporations and pay for it by cutting social programs” mind set is just too divided and destructive for me to consider reasonable.

        That leaves me with the Independents, none of whom have a chance with the system we have now. One more reason for instant runoff. If we could vote our conscience secure in the knowledge that we have a fall back second choice in case our first choice looses, that would be the beginning of a whole new era.

        • JeffH

          Kinetic1, well it seems you don’t have much of a clue do you? I’ll stick with Bachmann and her Tea Party, faith, conservative values and commitment to save America from the Marxist/socialist/communist/proggressives and you can choose any Godless candidate that perks your interest.

          We’ll certainly know better in late 2012 who the people choose to back won’t we.

          • JeffH

            …”much of a clue whom to choose”…

          • http://naver sook young

            Me too, JeffH. and thank you.

            Sook Young
            Wife of the Samurai

          • JeffH

            sook young and samurai, my house is your house anytime. The door is always open and the welcome mat reads…FOR GOD AND COUNTRY.
            Keep up the good fight fellow patriots.

          • April

            I second that JeffH!!! Smiles. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!!

          • http://naver samurai

            Thanks JeffH! Our house is open to you and all fellow patriots. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

  • http://marcum1@wildblue.net coal miner

    Civilized society is perpetually menaced with disintegration through this primary hostility of men towards one another.
    Sigmund Freud:

    • http://naver samurai

      “Cursed be all that learning that is contrary to the cross of Christ.”

      Reverand Jonathan Dickinson, First President of Princeton University.

      FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

      This is a more reliable source than a man who said everything we due is based in some way, shape, or form on sex.

  • http://deleted Claire

    I will not call Bachmann names, nor will I berate her. Same with Palin. I do have to say that I do not care for Trump. This thought is constantly in my mind concerning voting for POTUS: Beware, things are not what they seem. One never actually knows the candidate or what they will do when in office. We have seen this already. I will not jump on anyone’s bandwagon. I want to hear facts, I want to hear truth, honesty and common sense. So far, i haven’t seen much of this.

    • Kate8

      Claire – Nor are we likely to.

    • Kinetic1

      Claire,
      I believe the only candidate who can truly speak to what they will or will not do if elected is the one who has already been in the seat. Even then their promise is conditional given that even the President can’t just do whatever he/she pleases. Take Schwarzenegger for instance. As a candidate he talked a good line about how he would come in a sweep out California’s fiscal mess. It was easy to pick on Grey Davis since the economy was a real mess. Once elected and seated, all Schwarzenegger could do was say “it’s much worse than I realized.” You can promise all you want, but until you take the seat and realize the responsibilities that come with the office, it’s all just talk.

      • Jay

        Kinetic, that was a bunch of nonsense! The present potus has done a great deal of damage to this country, and that, without any restraint or interference! What he hasn’t been able to do, for lack of trying, and the fact that he is just a puppet, and is merely following orders, is to fix what ails this country. But surely you don’t think he is the one in control, do you? You seem to have a very anaemic understanding as to how the world works, and who is really in control! Obama is merely a focal point, a distraction, an illusion, a lie, or a rotten carrot on a stick, if you will. Wake up and note the take-over of our country from within!!!

        • http://naver samurai

          Not while we patriots are watching and on the march. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

        • http://naver samurai

          “Intelligence, patriotism, Christianity, and a firm reliance on Him who has never yet forsaken this favored land, are still compotent to adjust in the best way all our present difficulties.”

          Abraham Lincoln

          FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

          • eyeswideopen

            samurai, so what is your response to God, letting Obama become Pres.? He is there for a reason according to your theory and God hasn’t let us down yet! When you place responsibilty on God, for human choices, you then have to admit that everything happens for a reason, and using that theory, God wanted Obama to be Pres. lmao

          • Kate8

            eyes – God is clear about this, also. When a nation turns its back on Him and rebels against His Ways, he allows the enemy to enter its gates and rule them.

          • http://naver samurai

            Read your Bible and find out, blind one. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

          • eyeswideopen

            Kate, and the advantage that Obama would receive by destroying this country is WHAT?? If we fall, do you really think the Koch brothers would let him rule us?? You are really silly. No one has ever been able to explain why Obama would try and hurt this country. Take a shot, let’s hear how you see this playing out after we crash and burn.If you have any sanity, you have to know that the wealthy won’t be turning the country over to someone like him.

          • April

            eyes
            For the same reason you would like to see a Christian or a Conservative destroyed. He wants to punish anyone who has the audacity to work hard and become successful, blessed, and prosperous.

        • Kinetic1

          Jay, samurai, CC and Kate,
          You all missed the point, which is that few candidates are really aware of what they will face until they take that seat. I’m not talking about what Arny did or did not try to do, or even why he failed. The point is that he himself said, in essence “I can’t do what I promised because, now that I’m in I see that things are much different than I thought.”

          • Kate8

            Obama came right out and said that his promises were meaningless.

            He called them simply “campaign rhetoric”.

          • http://naver samurai

            True to that. Being the POTUS is a lot different than what they many have experienced, but the same goes for the pretender in chief in the White House, now doesn’t it? We’ll just have to wait and see. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

          • Kinetic1

            Samurai,
            Yes, it is the same for President Obama. I am not excluding anyone.

      • Cawmun Cents

        What you are communicating here Kinetic1 is that a moderate cannot overpower a house full of progressives.It would be analogous to asking a republican to be the mayor of Detroit and expecting him to fix what a half century of progressive policy has wrought upon the city.What you are asking cannot be performed by a human being.Only God can fix a fubar(fouled up beyond all recognition)of such titannic proportion.California is a microcosm of the entire United States if something isnt done to end progressive policy.Yes folks,progressives destroyed the Golden State.Now they have set their sights on the nation.

      • Kate8

        Gray Davis was a nightmare! He took our state from a surplus to being hopelessly bankrupt! He made a total mess of everything.

        Our democrat legislature has added insult to injury and they’ve darned near finished us off. They’ve driven off our businesses and flooded our state with illegal aliens. They’ve regulated and banned everything except our breath, and that is next.

        In fairness, Arnie tried to make changes. He couldn’t fight the democrat legislature, so he took his plan to the people, but the unions spent millions to spread their lies and the people didn’t back him. So he gave up.

        I’m no fan of Arnie’s, but it’s not like he didn’t try.

  • Norm

    Think of how many religions attempt to validate themselves with prophecy. Think of how many people rely on these prophecies, however vague, however unfulfilled, to support or prop up their beliefs. Yet has there ever been a religion with the prophetic accuracy and reliability of science? [Carl Sagan, The Demon-Haunted World: Science As a Candle in the Dark]

    • Jay

      We associate science with ideas like hypothesis, experiment, data, evidence, modified hypothesis, theory, prediction, explanation, and so on. But a precise definition of science is elusive.

      For instance, Michael Ruse says that science “by definition deals only with the natural, the repeatable, that which is governed by law.” On the plus side, this definition would certainly allow us to distinguish between astronomy and astrology. However, it would rule out most of contemporary cosmology as science. After all, the history of the universe is not repeatable!

      Ruse’s inadequate definition reminds us that not all science carries with it the same kind of authority. There is a danger of endowing inferences to the best explanation about unrepeatable past events with the authority of results derived from repeated experimentation.

      To complicate matters even further, the Enlightenment ideal of the observer–one completely independent; free of all preconceived theories and prior philosophical , ethical, and religious commitments, doing investigations and coming to dispassionate, unbiased, rational conclusions that constitute absolute truth, is nowadays regarded as an idealized myth.

      In common with the rest of humanity, scientists have preconceived ideas and world views that they bring to bear on every situation. Even observations tend to be “theory laden”; we cannot take a temperature without having an underlying theory of heat.

      Also, theories tend to be underdetermined by the data; for instance, infinitely many curves can be drawn through any finite set of points. Furthermore, at the quantum level the very process of observation gives rise to disturbances that cannot be ignored.
      By its very nature, therefore, science posses a certain degree of provisionality.

      It should be noted, that this is far from implying that science is a totally subjective and arbitrary social construct, as has been suggested by some post-modern thinkers. It is probably fair to say that many scientists are critical realists who hold that their theories, though not amounting to “truth” in any final or absolute sense, nevertheless give them an increasingly firm handle on reality. For example, consider the development of the understanding of the universe, from Galileo via Newton and Einstein.

      Are there any limits to scientific explanation?
      At the materialist end of the spectrum, some hold that science is the only way to truth and can (ultimately) explain everything. According to Peter Atkins, “There is no reason to suppose that science cannot deal with every aspect of existence.” This view is called scientism.
      If Atkin’s claim were true, it would at once spell the end of many academic disciplines, such as philosophy, ethics, literature, poetry, art, and music. How could science tell us whether a poem is a bad poem or a work of genius? Science can tell you that if you add strychnine to someone’s drink, it will kill her, but it cannot tell you whether it is morally right or wrong to put strychnine into your grandmother’s tea in order to get your hands on her property.

      Worse still, scientism is incoherent. Bertrand Russel, (a homosexual) wrote, “Whatever knowledge is attainable, must be attained by scientific methods; and what science cannot discover, mankind cannot know.” But Russel’s statement is not a statement of science, so if his statement is true we cannot know it, which contradicts the very assertion that is being made! It is therefore incoherent.

      Those who are committed to scientism regard all talk of God and religious experience as outside of science and therefore not objectively true, whatever the benefits claimed for it. But for them, thinking about God is like thinking about Father Christmas, dragons, or fairies. The fact that you can think about them does not mean that they exist. These scientists, are more then happy to let people go on thinking about God and religion so long as they do not claim that God has any objective existence or that religious belief constitutes knowledge.

      • Thor

        Ah…Jay, so a discussion of Bachmann’s Christianity has devolved into apologetics for ‘objective’ science. At least the rules are clear here. In the discipline of apologetics one piece of ‘intuitive’ evidence has equal value with another. On that account, I give you the black hole which is a favorite saw of overzealous scientists. The entire existence of it is founded upon the gravitational effect upon the surrounding bodies in close proximity to it. No light can escape one theoretically therefore we cannot see one: we must presume it is there. Theologists do precisely the same thing when they intuit God; they do so based on the observed phenomena of human nature. They can’t see Him but He exerts immense gravity within his sphere of influence. Your turn.

        • Jay

          Thor, I was responding to Norm’s infatuation and obvious lack of understanding of the proper place of science. As well, science is not a stand-alone tool. Science, unguided by Faith, Reason, and Ethics will always result in societal nightmare. Case in point, the eugenics department at the UN, among other policies, such as, population control, guided merely by science and supported monetarily by unscrupulous men and women obsessed with greed and lust for power. Conversely, Faith unguided by Science, Reason and Ethics, has always proven to be ruinous as well. No doubt we can both agree the UN is not, a religiously based organization. Also, there are many religious cults of many peculiarities that are fraught with dangerous ideologies and outrageous beliefs. It is my opinion that, Faith and Science make the perfect union for the benefit and blessing of man. One without the other will always end in disaster! My point? Balance!

      • Kinetic1

        Jay,
        Why don’t you give credit to the authors of your words? It is clear that you do not write these thoughtful and literate works yourself and it’s not as if you have just borrowed an idea or two, so why make us hunt for the real authors to gain insight as to the context? For those who are interested and do not already know, These are the words of Ravi Zacharias, Christian apologist and evangelist. If you care to know more you can find his works all over the web.

        • Jay

          Wrong Kinetic, those are not the words of Ravi Zacharias!!! You’re now gunning for me, are you? I must have said something to really tick you off. What was it? Perhaps I didn’t agree with you?…boo hoo

          • Kinetic1

            Jay,
            No, I’m not “gunning for you”. I simply read your post, questioned the distinct difference between this post and what you normally present and chose to Google a phrase or two from your post. Voila! Beyond Opinion: Living the Faith We Defend By Ravi Zacharias. The author is also noted as the “General Editor”, so it may be true that these were not actually his words, but it still would appear that they are not yours. Are you suggesting that you are the original author? If not, then who?

          • Jay

            I have posted that particular article on previous occasions and I have always added the authors name. People that post here on a regular basis would be and are quite familiar with the article. You obviously are not. The point is, Kinetic, what the article has to say, and I re-posted it in response to Norm’s statement as I thought it was a fitting response. Did you not find the article of any benefit to you? You missed and by- passed the information and the point of the article and yet noted that the author was not mentioned, again. There is a saying: “When a finger is pointed at the moon, the idiot looks at the finger”! Why don’t you google that one and see who the author is, petty boy!!!

          • April

            Jay
            Kinetic is nitpicking again. GRACIOUS!!!

          • Kinetic1

            Yes Jay, I did read the article, but felt that their was more to it. I questioned the notation that Bertrand Russel was a homosexual as the fact seemed to be of little consequence. The only way to understand where the author was coming from was to see it in context, and since you did not even choose to place these words in quotations I was left to either accept them as your words or go searching. Call it nitpicking if you please April, but now that I have found the source of the article I have a better understanding of the writer’s viewpoint.

            By the way, I don’t know where you found this piece, but in his book Mr. Zacharias makes no mention of Mr. Russel’s sexuality.

          • Jay

            Its a known fact that Bertrand Russell was a homosexual! Just thought I would add that, why, does that bother you? The reason I didn’t paste the entire article was because the portion that I did paste, was, I felt, sufficient to make the point in response to norm’s statement, which was, in a nutshell, that all we need is science to make our way in life. Did you miss the connection? It does appear so!

    • http://naver samurai

      Do you really have to repeat youself? Run out of original things to say? FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

      • Jana

        Norm only has one subject, and that is to talk about religion. It must be miserable to have that much hatred in your heart for something. It only hurts him.

        • http://naver samurai

          100% agree. Keep up the good fight, fellow patriot! FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

        • eyeswideopen

          Jana, he probably uses all the hate spewed by supposed Christians as reinforcement as to the hyprocrisy shown here everyday in most of the posts. The people who call their brothers names and spew the hate is not a very good example of Christianity is it? You need to live your faith, not just profess it, while passing out judgements that are not rightly yours to access. Didn’t find anywhere in Bible, where Jesus or God stated that you have the right to degrade, spew vile names, or vilify your fellow man, because they belong to a different political party than yours. Can you find that instruction for me?

          • libertytrain

            casting stones again I see…

          • eyeswideopen

            liberty, are you saying that these Christians are not spewing hate? Come on, you are very intelligent and obviously can read. I am merely stating the facts. My grandfather taught us that when you name call and degrade someone, it shows that you don’t have the mental ability to argue your point as the hate blocks your ability to think. That is why so many here just revert to the repub talking points and don’t do any research prior to making statements that are so easily rebuked with the facts.

          • libertytrain

            I’m saying you’re casting stones again. Reads like an awfully bitter mean streak. The vibes you are sending out feel very unChristian as well – hardly an example to those you are choosing to chastise with such vengeance.

          • libertytrain

            amend that to self-righteous vengeance — it’s oozing from your posts.

          • eyeswideopen

            liberty, do you expect Christians to denagrate others without being called out by their fellow Christians? I guess you conservatives just expect others to lay down to your cruel and nasty actions? I haven’t called anyone names, but if you went through this site and counted how many and who is name calling it would be all of those professed Christians. I am sorry you are so offended by a Christian standing up for other Christians who don’t believe we should degrade one another. Probably what bothers you is the truth in what I have pointed out. I don’t see you trying to stop the hate or the lies. Why not?

          • Jana

            eyes,
            The one casting stones here is you. You came on this site with an agenda, and it certainly wasn’t to be nice, because you aren’t. You knew you were going to start accusing when you looked up PLD. What happened? Have you been having some bad weeks and need someone to fight with?

          • JeffH

            libertytrain,
            “Ah, there is nothing more beautiful than the difference between the thought about sinful creatures which is natural to a holy being, and the thought about sinful creatures which is natural to a self-righteous being. The one is all contempt; the other, all pity.”
            Alexander MacLaren

          • http://naver sook young

            This is off the subject about Bachmann, but here is an interesting site to look at.

            http://www.patriotupdate.com/articles/standing-up-for-palin

            Thank you.

            Sook Young
            Wife of the Samurai

          • http://naver sook young

            Eyes, if you are into music you will like this song by Diamond Rio. Just listen to it and reflect on the message he’s saying.

            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=URpheZUB90Y&feature=related

            Thank you.

            Sook Young
            Wife of the Samurai

          • libertytrain

            personally I never bought into the holier than thou attitude. I don’t recall any Christian teaching I received being taught to call out those that aren’t Christian enough in my perception, perhaps you were…

          • libertytrain

            EYES, the above was of course directed at you.

            JeffH – good quote.

  • David

    God told these pale faced Europeans to come to this land of red skin looking people and anihilate as many as they could until they understood that this was no longer their land. Then pale face went to Africa to get people that could slave in hot sun to build their newly acquired country. Fought each other and died to maintain good ole-boy slavery life. Made Japanese-Americans know they were still Japanese first in WWII.Today their arrogance is still loud to the world and have the audacity to think we believe one mixed-raced black man is tearing their country apart. Jim Crow get your sheets,crosses,and horses and ride around the “White House”.

    • Jay

      David, your anti-American, atheist professor must be very proud of you, his mini-me! Now, what do YOU, think?

      • Kinetic1

        Jay,
        Now THESE are your own words. Yep, when someone points out the hypocrisy and failings of our nation they just MUST be anti American! David may not have been to gentile in his brief description of America’s failings, but history is history.

        • Jay

          Kinetic, why don’t you let David speak for himself? And you know I was responding to his religious slur, without mincing words, he idiotically implied that our early founders were religious homicidal maniacs. Funny how a bright boy like you happen to miss that!!!

          • Kinetic1

            Jay,
            He is more than welcome to speak for himself, but don’t expect me to ignore people like you who accuse those who offer facts, however uncomfortable they may make you as being anti-American. So, are you denying our founder’s belief in manifest destiny? I’m not going to suggest that all of the settlers held such beliefs, but it is clear that those who did not were the exception. And if a nation used such an excuse today they would be seen as “religious homicidal maniacs”. In fact, many on this site use almost those exact words to describe Islam today. Read your history and you’ll see that most of America’s founders did treat native Americans as well as those they enslaved as less than human. Funny that you missed that.

          • eyeswideopen

            Jay, your interpretation is astounding. He merely stated the facts. He didn’t even mention the Crusades, which definately shows the violence that Christians have used. Yes, we started 7 of the wars on the Muslims and like it or not, it is a fact. He could have just stated that a Christian President went to war with a country who had no hand in 9-11, but he refrained.

          • Jay

            eyes wide, you stated: He could have just stated that a Christian President went to war with a country who had no hand in 9-11, but he refrained.

            Could you explain who had the hand in 9-11?

            As for the crusades, surely you don’t believe the fabricated and falsified historical take on that issue. All historical wars have been induced and stimulated by the unseen agitators who are still, to this day, busily creating new wars, and ultimately will precipitate the mother of them all. Are they Christian? Communists? Socialist? Humanists? No one is quite sure what they are, but one thing’s for sure, they’re evil! Please don’t give me the rubbish about the so-called Christian wars, as I’ll rebuttal with the communist, and socialist, and the atheistic wars. Off course that’s all non-sense, as again, all wars were induced by the same hands and personalities that consider all people and nations as their puppets to do as they wish, pitting one against the other by playing on our differences and core beliefs. Case in point, our beloved nation, while our nation is in ruins and burning and will soon be in the hands of the ones who have no right to its possession, we are at each others throats. Why? Divide and conquer! How? I’m not your enemy, and you are not mine. Why is it happening? Think about it!

          • Jay

            “With gold one can buy the most upright consciences, with gold one can fix the value of every stock, the price of every merchandise, one can loan it to states that afterwards one holds at ones mercy.”

            “Already the principal banks, the stock exchanges throughout the world, the loans to all the governments are in our hands.”

            “The other great power is the press. By ceaselessly repeating certain ideas, the press in the end makes them considered as truths. The theatre renders similar services, everywhere theatre and press follow our directives. By an indefatigable campaign in favour of the Democratic form of government, we will divide the Gentiles amongst themselves in political parties, we shall thus destroy the unity of their nations, we will sow the seeds of discord. Powerless, they will have to accept the law of our bank, always united, always devoted to our cause.”

            “We will push the Christians into wars, by a judicious exploitation of their pride and stupidity. They will massacre each other and thus make more space where we can place our own people.”

          • Jana

            Yes Jay,
            Agitators such as eyes. She came on this site to agitate. Perfect example.

          • April

            Jay, I totally agree with you. And anyone who would bash the CHRISTIAN PRINCIPALS of our founding Fathers that made this country the beacon on a hill, and attempt to leave GOD out the equation is anti-American. And an anti’American is the bad guy.

            Folks like eyes and kinetic have an anti-American agenda as they continually point out warped versions of history in order to disgrace America. Yes we have made our share of mistakes, but they would like to see this country as a third world country so that like Obamabadguy, they can attempt to say “we are no better than anyone else” but we are better because of GOD and the CHRISTIAN PRINCIPALS we were founded on whether they like it or not. We are the nation who other nations admire, and we are the ones who help and defend other nations. The bad guy would blame 9-11 on Bush. The fact is Bush did not start this war, Islam Extremist did. They have always declared war on anyone who is not their religion. They have prepared and they executed the action. We have no choice but to defend our Faith and our Country. This is where Psalm 144 becomes vital prayer for America.

            Thank you Jay for being a fellow Patriot. I like what Samurai says, FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!!

    • http://naver samurai

      Too much lib kool aid on a daily basis! FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

  • Jay

    Yet has there ever been a religion with the prophetic accuracy and reliability of science?

    Norm, could you elaborate further on the statement above?

  • chuckb

    all the bolsheviks commenting about bachmann and her relations with god. how about hillary when she and bill occupied the wh, she talked to eleanor roosevlet, now shes handling the foreign affairs of the country, does that worry you? of course her and bill were probably whacked out at the time and you know something i think she really did talk to eleanor, someone mysteriously helped her out of a murder and fraud investigation and god knows what else. this doesn’t seem to bother the commies.

  • jopa

    Poor Michelle, does anyone have the heart to tell her that was not God on the phone.That was President Barrack Obama.

    • http://naver samurai

      “For a Muslim to keep his word to an ‘Infidel’ at the expense of opportunities to expand Islamic power is the Islamic equivalent of a mortal sin.”

      Benjamin Franklin

      Sounds just like Obama bin Laden. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

      • Kinetic1

        samurai,
        Could you note a source for this quote? Thanks.

        • http://naver samurai

          No problem Kinetic. Here it is:

          http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wkr1TMyaheE&NR=1

          Enjoy it. I did. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

          • Kinetic1

            samurai,
            This is troubling. You quoted this from a video, but there is no mention of when or where Franklin was to have said this. I have searched and searched and while I find this quote accredited to Franklin over and over again, not once did I find a source noted. And those sites that posted this quote were, almost without fail sites devoted to proving the threat of Islam either to Christianity or America. Not exactly an impartial group. To make matters worse I was able to find this quote of Franklin’s that can be authenticated;

            “Even if the Mufti [chief jurist] of Constantinople [from the Muslim Ottoman Empire] were to send a missionary to preach Mohammedanism to us, he would find a pulpit at his service.”

            The only other place I have found the phrase in question was in the text of an article that recounted Franklin’s parody of the Southern effort to retain the right to slavery. It was not offered as a quote of Franklin’s, but rather as a statement of fact. Given that and the fact that Franklin was known to be very tolerant of other religions, why should I believe that he ever made such a statement?

          • Jana

            Kinectic, I also have noticed that you don’t always give your sources or dates either.

          • http://naver samurai

            Well then, I guess you’ll have to look it up now won’t you? FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

            This is for Kinetic.

        • JeffH

          As Benjamin Franklin pointed out: For a Muslim to keep his word to an Infidel at the expense of opportunities to expand Islamic power is the Islamic equivalent of a mortal sin.

          America has been fighting Islamists for longer than many realize. Even before independence was declared, American ships were pirated and their Christian crews enslaved by Muslim pirates operating under the control of the “Dey of Algiers”—an Ottoman Islamist warlord ruling Algeria.
          http://www.sodahead.com/united-states/americas-war-with-islam-since-1784/blog-26678/

          • http://naver samurai

            Thanks for the site, fellow patriot. Very informative. Keep up the good fight, fellow patriot! FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

    • Jay

      Poor Obama, does anyone have the heart to tell him that was not Satan on the phone.That was George Soros.

      • eyeswideopen

        nah, it was the Koch brothers telling him, that they already owned the entire country and not to waste his time trying to save it from the demise of the radical right.

        • Jana

          eyes,
          You are too funny. No really, funny!

          • eyeswideopen

            I know isn’t it great?? lol

          • Jana

            eyes,
            No, that kind of funny doesn’t look good on you.

        • Jay

          What we have wide eyes, is a unified chameleon party that is able to shift from right to left at a twinkling of an eye! Something, unfortunately, the dimwitted always fail to perceive!

  • Ralph

    Poor jopa, you have a very undeveloped MIND ! Please refrain from trying to use it until developement is complete!!!!

  • Mike

    There are some great one-liners in these comments.LOL. I’d rather vote for Bachmann than a hubris egomaniac like Obama and his ilk. In fact I’d probably vote for her rather than most of those RINO-GOP’s wanting to be POTUS. She wants a great nation founded on the Constitution not this Crony Capitalism the MSM push out their blow holes day and night. Fabian Socialism is like boiling frogs. Don’t throw them in a boiling pot, turn the heat up slowly once there in and they won’t jump out.

  • JMJ

    Hey Gary! How do we KNOW that Obama is a fraud and NOT a Christian? It is very simple: Read the Bible!!! To be a Christian is to pick up your cross and to follow Jesus, not to kill, destroy or to condone sin in any way or manner. His love affair with “planned parenthood”, the homosexual people that are trying to destroy this country and God’s version of true marriage are just some examples; not to forget, that if one of his daughters becomes pregnant; he will kill his grand-child; and how about all his lying? Wake up, Gary. +JMJ+ A Roman Catholic!!!

  • jopa

    Ralph:That is quite a name you have there.Enough said!RALLLPHH!!

    • Jana

      Wow jopa,
      Did you hear that kind of retort on the gradeschool playground?

      • JeffH

        Jana, most likely from Alice Kramden, you know, Ralph’s wife on the Honeymooners.

    • eddie47d

      jopa, Why didn’t Jana respond to Ralph’s response instead of pouncing on you. We both know the answer to that one.

      • http://naver samurai

        Seems to me that Jana hit the target center mass. You do know what center mass means don’t you? FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

        • eyeswideopen

          speaking of funny names, why samurai? are you from Japan? In love with Japan? Want to be from Japan? Honoring someone from Japan? Or is your ego so big, that you think you could have been a Samurai? Just wondering how such a chest pounding patriot would take a foreign name as his call sign.

          • libertytrain

            you’re being awfully rude this time around. Must have had a bad year —

          • eyeswideopen

            liberty, irony is something used by me, to point out that you can take a simple thing like a call sign and make it into a nasty unpatriotic item. I am sure samurai, loves this country, however, his actions and statements can be mis-interperted to mean something else. Since the far right hates anything not American it is ironic that he has that name. When you are looking for something to hate, you can find it very easily.

          • JeffH

            eyes says, “When you are looking for something to hate, you can find it very easily.”

            And that is the only reason you come back to this website…because YOU KNOW where to look for something you hate.

          • eyeswideopen

            Jeff, nay, I don’t hate anyone…..totally confused by the hyprocrisy and the self righteous attitude that you all seem to have, while not taking any responsibilty for any of the problems we are facing. Suddenly you all got wisdom, but not until you no longer had the power… That is something that is very hard to understand. Who voted all those repubs into office that made all those bad decisions? Must have been those crazy dems putting all those repubs into office. If your party is so perfect, why the tea party? At least they are honest about not being happy with who they put in office. The rest of you can’t even admit that you put them there, and they did a horrible job.

          • Jana

            You are far too modest eyes.
            YOUR words spew hatred, discust, and intolerence. Your first statement screamed ‘chip on my shoulder.’

            Another MAJOR point. You asked “If your party is so perfect, why the tea party?”
            Well DUH!, doesn’t that tell you what we have been saying all along but you have not been comprehending or wanting to listen to, which is we don’t think the Republican Party is so perfect. However you have been told this over and over and over again, but you just DON’T pay attention. It’s people like you who were SUPPOSED to be in the Republican party that ruined it with your lie-beral and Socialist ideas.

          • JeffH

            eyes, confusion say it is you who is confused.

            Perhaps misguided moral passion is better than confused indifference.
            Iris Murdoch

          • http://naver samurai

            I was given this name when I was stationed at Fort Carson, Colorado. It was given to me by my batallion commander, because I fought like one. OK? I guess you have nothing better to do at this time then rant or attack someone. Why did you take the name eyes wide open? They sure seem to be tightly shut to me. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

          • libertytrain

            Eyes, irony is not what you have been doing; mean-spirited unprovoked attacks is not irony.

          • April

            Wow eyes, another continuous low. What a relentless bully you are. You’ve pounded your chest so much your heartbeat is impossible to find. You are the one who hates. Most of us on the right do not hate the unAmerican. We disrepect and interfere with you trying to change out our American Christian Principals that made and still makes this Country so Great. If you do not like it leave- GO to another country PLEASE. If ya wanna change us so desperately, then expect a knock down drag out. We on the right don’t care to change you, even if ya wanna live here; but WE WON’T BACK DOWN OR BOW DOWN OR LET YOU CHANGE US.

        • eyeswideopen

          samurai, are you trying to honor the country that wanted to wipe us off the face of the map? Oh, no, there is a Chrisitan who is honoring someone who is not a Christian. Let the flogging begin.lol

          • Jana

            eyes,
            Well we all know how you came up with your name. You went with the opposit of what is true. Just like you do with everything else.

          • eyeswideopen

            Jana, miss know it all, tell me how I came up with that name. I guess since you are the all knowing about the Bible and what God really means, you must have been able to read my mind as to how I came by that name… Go ahead take a shot… then I will tell you how I got it.

          • eyeswideopen

            Jana, I am tired, so I will tell you how I got Eyeswideopen. When my son, who has passed used to play hide and seek, he would yell at me when I had my eyes open. “Mommie, eyes wide open, not fair”. That is how I honor him for his death in Iraq. Any more assumptions on your part? What ugly reason did you come up with?

          • libertytrain

            I don’t think this extreme bitterness displayed tonight can be blamed on what happened to your son.

          • Jay

            libertytrain, I can’t help but wonder wether the story eyeswideshut shared, regarding his son, was a pure fabrication! I put nothing past the left when it comes to the use of deceptive strategies.

          • libertytrain

            I like to think one wouldn’t fabricate a tale like that one. She’s mentioned that the last couple years.

          • Jana

            eyes,
            You see what I mean? NO READING COMPREHENSION! I told you why you use the name- – - go back and re-read what I said. Maybe this time you will see it.
            I am sorry for the loss of your son, is that what has made you so bitter and rude?

          • Jay

            libertytrain, my apologies then, to wide eyes!

          • April

            OHH MYY GOOODNESS!!!! Another low for eyes! She has no idea how to be honorable; even her own son calls her unfair and cheats. What A Pity!!

          • http://deleted Claire

            I don’t mean to be or sound melodramatic but I can truthfully say I do not think I could endure losing my son. Personally, I think I would be lashing out at anything and everyone. I would be screaming. The grief would consume me. As tough as I like to think I am, losing my son would be an unbearable situation. And I know my husband would feel the same way.

          • libertytrain

            Claire, I agree, and perhaps that’s the problem; even though this occurred several years ago as she mentioned/told us about this well over a year ago now, she may have moments when it becomes very difficult and she chooses to lash out at us for some reason.

          • Jana

            Then she needs to find someone else to beat up on. I am no ones whipping post!

  • JeffH

    For those Bachmann naysayers who prefer to ridicule, read these fine words from Bachmann. (RE-Edwards scandal)
    Bachmann does get it.

    In a recent interview, Bachmann said that the Beltway elites running the country have stopped listening to heartland Americans, adding, “We’re not serfs working in the Middle Ages for the nobles.”

    “I think it’s because of the corrupt paradigm that has become Washington, D.C. whereby votes continually are bought rather than representatives voting the will of their constituents,” Bachmann told Newsmax. “That’s the conundrum of the American people that they now have to live under, and I think the rise of the tea party movement has brought that issue there.

    “People are recognizing all across the United States that they can’t trust politicians anymore,” Bachmann added. “They actually have to get involved in their government in order to rest it away from the politicians so that those views won’t reflect those of the people. Otherwise, they see that we’re going to lose the nation for the next generation.”

    Bachmann did not suggest the GOP is immune from the grave moral failings they see as directly linked to the confluence of power, money, and politics that are Washington’s stock and trade. Indeed, there are many example of high-profile politicians snared by scandal on both sides of the aisle.

  • http://marcum1@wildblue.net coal miner

    Better to reign in Hell than serve in Heaven.John Milton:

    • Kate8

      coal – To each his own.

    • http://naver samurai

      If we and our posterity reject religious instruction and authority, violate the rules of eternal justice, trifle with the injunctions of morality, and recklessly destroy the political constitution which holds us together, no man can tell how sudden a catastrophe may overwhelm us that shall bury all our glory in profound obscurity.

      Daniel Webster

      Try using something from our history to back up what you say and not these needles quotes that have no bearing on the subject at hand. Go Michelle Bachmann! If God has called you, he will guide you and have you be our next president. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

      • eyeswideopen

        sam, didn’t you get the part about destroying the political system that binds us? That means we need a two party system for balance. When you attack the left as you do, you are tearing down the fabric of this country. Please understand that the conservatives are not perfect and if you succeed in destroying it, you will destroy this country.. just as your quote suggests.

        • http://naver samurai

          If we did destroy the left, that would be great! No more Obama bin Laden types to run for president. BTW, there is the Libertarian Party, the Independents, Constitutional Party, the Green Party, and for those that are wacked out on drugs, there’s the American Communist Party and the American Nazi Party. These parties are always on the Indiana ticket for national elections. Ergo, we would have a long way to go to being a one party nation. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

    • Jay

      Again, out of context. Where is Kinetic when you need him???

  • Jana

    eyes,
    Can’t understand how you can claim to be a Republican when you espouse lie-beral policies.
    If you bothered to read the Bible where Christians get their rules and regulations you will see that the Bible fully states that when somone commits murder, premeditated murder, they are to be sent to the Father. This is what God and Jesus commanded.
    You bleeding heart lie-berals would kill an innocent baby, but allow a murderer and a rapist to go free. Yeah, your hearts in the right place.

    • Jana

      This reply was to eyes way up toward the top of this site. Sometimes these sites have minds of their own on where they put the reply to someone. LOL

      • Kate8

        Jana – I thought I was hallucinating when eyes said she was conservative.

        Don’t believe it for a second. She never was. She’s a lib, through and through.

        • Jana

          Yes Kate8, any conservative can tell the difference. She comes on here just to stir up. She is probably one of those PAID liberals.

          • libertytrain

            They do seem to come in little troops. One bunch goes on leave and another comes on duty.

          • http://marcum1@wildblue.net coal miner

            Jana and Kate8,

            What are you girls? Hypocrites?I wouldn’t be casting any stones,if I were you.

          • Jay

            Yes, they seem well organized. Have you noticed how they never respond to each other’s posts, no matter how outlandish their statements? They never seem to post original ideas or thoughts, but only rebuttals to anything conservative, particularly if the our statements contain or originate from a religious point of view. My personal opinion and recommendation? Never respond to them!!!

          • http://naver samurai

            Can you take some of your own advice? Now be a good boy and sit. Good boy! Woof! Woof! FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

          • eyeswideopen

            Jana, use some logic, if everyone who posts things that you disagree with is paid, this site would be costing someone millions of dollars. Why do you think that only the radical right has passion for their beliefs? Money is not everyones motivation.

          • Jay

            eyes stated: Why do you think that only the radical right has passion for their beliefs? Money is not everyones motivation.

            No one stated the radical left is devoid of beliefs, rather, the contrary is true! It is the beliefs of the left that the right has issues with. But to be chasing that tail, wide eye, would result in both of us looking like fools. For left and right is merely an illusion, who’s purpose was devised and implemented but for the purpose to create and maintain dis-unity among the American people. I’m surprised a bright boy like you hasn’t figured that one out yet!!!

            eyes stated: Money is not everyones motivation.

            Money is certainly the starting point, after that, it no longer satisfies, unless of course you add to monetary monopoly full and total control of the citizenry. That, in my opinion, is the ultimate motivation!

          • JeffH

            Jay, good, very good!

        • eyeswideopen

          Conservative in my actions, Independent in my thinking. Have changed my voter registration to Independent from Republican. Could no longer stand the robo calls from the radical right.

          • Jana

            eyes,
            You don’t even know what a conservative is, so no, your definitely aren’t one.

    • eyeswideopen

      Jana, show me where ,God, says to kill them and send them to him. Bet you can’t find it as it doesn’t exist anywhere in the Bible. However the Bible is full of examples of redemption. By the way what kind of punishment are you going to propose for those who get abortions? Will it be death?

      • Jana

        eyes,

        I certainly will show you, but first I am not the judge of those who get abortions, I go by the action. God is the judge and HE is a fair judge. He knows the heart.
        If you truly want to know the answer to that ask GOD. Or, are you one of those who mock the idea that a mighty awesome GOD cannot communicate with HIS people?

        • Jana

          Your reply went below eyes.

    • eyeswideopen

      Jana, I am not a repub. I was one previously until 6 months ago. And yes, I helped create this mess with who I voted into office. I am ashamed and trying to do everything I can to make up for those bad decisions. That includes calling out those who are lying, either intentionally or accidentally. I didn’t scream loud enough when the repubs were going to war with the wrong country, passing medicare D with no funding and writting checks we couldn’t honor. I was not involved enough, I just voted republican….so I am responsible for this crisis and am trying to make amends for being a one time sheep.

      • Jana

        Actually eyes,
        I believe you on this. None of us did.

        • JeffH

          eyes says, “Jana, I am not a repub. I was one previously until 6 months ago.”

          We’ve been hearing that one for over two years now.

          • libertytrain

            That Jeff, you correctly noted, is something we’ve heard in the nearly two years I’ve been on this site – :)

          • Jana

            HA HA HA You mean she has been CAUGHT making up things AGAIN?

          • JeffH

            “It is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.”
            Dr. Carl Sagan

          • Jana

            JeffH,
            I love the picture of Obama. Does kind of remind us of those trained monkeys that PLD talked about a while ago.(In actions and looks)

          • JeffH

            Jana, not me. It reminds me of the child Obama crying, saying “it’s not my fault”…it’s Bush’s fault…wah, wah, wah!

          • http://naver samurai

            She’s been busted again? They’ll never learn! FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

    • eyeswideopen

      Jana, now I know why you guys are so radical. Who said I would let murders and rapist go free?? YOu that’s who. I personally don’t believe in the death penalty, why is that such a bad thing? I believe in redemption and feel that if mercy killing isn’t right, why should killing for justice be righteous? I am just not into killing… sorry. Look what you did. Because I am not for the death penalty, you think I am soft on crime. Don’t jump to assumptions automatically because someone dared not to agree with you on killing others. That action is why you are considered radical. Humans make mistakes, after you kill someone you can’t take it back. Why is that so hard to understand? Regarding abortions, that is between a woman and her God, it is not my place to dictate to her that she must do what I think is right. I also don’t think we should force men to take viagra, so that his wife will be happy. It is his body to do what he decides is right. Unwanted children are the future murders and rapists

      • Jana

        eyes,
        I am not jumping at anything, I am just taking you at your word. You have spouted off enough double talk way too many times. Remember, I know you from before this post. You may not have been on for awhile but I haven’t forgotten you. You are very judgmental. So you don’t believe in the death penalty. A lot of people don’t, but you jump all over anyone who does. Wow such tolerance you DON’T have.
        By the way, I didn’t make the rules, God did. If you don’t like them talk to HIM! Of course that would mean that you have to acknowledge HIM.
        I am glad you don’t want to force men to take viagra. So what?

  • jopa

    Eddie :When I used RRALLPHH in an above post I was actually mocking Jeffh with all of his child like retorts as Jana calls them.

  • Jana

    eyes,
    here it is,

    Deut 19:11-13
    1 But if any man hate his neighbour, and lie in wait for him, and rise up against him, and smite him mortally that he die, and fleeth into one of these cities: ( this is a city set aside for those who killed someone by accident that they could flee to and be safe till the family members of the one accidentally killed could cool down.)
    12 Then the elders of his city shall send and fetch him thence, and deliver him into the hand of the avenger of blood, that he may die.
    13 Thine eye shall not pity him, but thou shalt put away the guilt of innocent blood from Israel, that it may go well with thee.
    KJV

    Deut 27:24-26
    Cursed be he that smiteth his neighbour secretly! And all the people shall say, Amen.
    25 Cursed be he that taketh reward to smite mortally [shedding] innocent blood! And all the people shall say, Amen. ( Such as an assasin)
    26 Cursed be he that confirmeth not the words of this law to do them! And all the people shall say, Amen.

    • eyeswideopen

      jana, 25, means that if you kill an innocent person ( as in wrongly convicted) you will be cursed. Please tell me when we have perfected our system so that no mistakes are made. Maybe then I will be old and hateful and agree with the death penalty.

      • Jana

        eyes,
        NO, it does not.

  • Jana

    eyes,

    And just in case you think ha that’s just the Old Testament,I will show you. God meant for us to follow certain laws FOREVER. There is a difference between the LAW and ORDINANCES. We need to know them.

    Matt 5:17-20
    7 Think not that I came to destroy the law or the prophets: I came not to destroy, but to fulfil.
    18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass away from the law, till all things be accomplished.
    19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
    20 For I say unto you, that except your righteousness shall exceed (the righteousness) of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no wise enter into the kingdom of heaven.

    • eyeswideopen

      Jana, the Commandments state: Thou shall not kill… it is not written with an exception stating that the death penalty is approved. Good try, but I will stick with not killing, if you don’t mind.

      • Jana

        eyes,
        Its your ship, you sail it any way you want. You want to believe lies, that up to you.
        If you can’t read with comprehension (that means understanding by the way), thats your problem. You want to be gullible and not believe God said what he meant, and meant what he said, Fine.

        • Jana

          there is none so blind as those who WILL NOT SEE miss eyes wide open.

        • eyeswideopen

          Jana, damn girl, nobody told me that you were the expert on what God means in the Bible. I guess I should have checked with you on the Commandments prior to becoming a Christian. My pastor didn’t tell me that one would be excluded by Jana. Just because someone doesn’t agree with you, doesn’t mean you are right and they aren’t comprehending. You are a little cocky aren’t you?? Why are you trying to justify killing by ignoring one of the Commandments? Talk about picking and choosing what to believe, that about takes the cake. But considering you are a conservative it is par for the course. Does that mean adultery is now ok too? lmao

          • http://naver samurai

            Eyes, knock it off. You asked questions and Jana answered. If you don’t like what she tole you, well boo hoo! Go crying back to moomy and go back into her basement. I guess you are just another monkey tool. You must like throwing feces and swinging from a rubber tire. Get a grip. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

          • libertytrain

            Eyes, You definitely have grown very bitter even far more than before – I’m almost feeling pity for you.

          • Jana

            eyes,
            Its is called STUDY. I study the Bible daily, but am no expert. I just have had my eyes opened to the Truth because I wanted to know what God says about this world, not just what man says.
            It takes more than listening to a pastor pick out 3 or 4 verses on Sunday and read them and then give a sermon about the idea of what those verses are supposed to be about.
            Eyes, the Bible is available for you the same as it is for me.
            If you would read your Bible you would find comfort over your son and your husband. The knowledge in God’s wonderful word would give you peace, freedom and joy.
            The bitterness your portray on this site is something you carry with you every day in your life, but you don’t have to.
            You say you are a Christian, then let God comfort you. Read his letters to you. These are letters that have the instructions for Christians on how to be overcomers, not victims. You have been a victim for far too long.

          • libertytrain

            nice, and very kind post Jana -

      • April

        Wrong eyes!!
        The word for “kill” here is “ratsach” in the Hebrew tongue, and “phoneuo” in the Greek tongue., specific to murder, intentional criminal homocide or manslaughter. ie. “Thou shalt do no murder”.
        (ratsach)Intentional manslaughter of an innocent unborn child vs. (naqam)defending, punishing, or avenging a murderer or an enemy of war.
        Compared to you, Jana is an authority.

        • http://marcum1@wildblue.net coal miner

          Liberty,

          You talk about Eyes being rude,better look at your ownself.You are really insulting.Eyes was just asking questions.I didn’t see you lecturing Samurai on his insults and his rude behavior.He is not exactly Mr Congeniality.

          • libertytrain

            coal, you’re right, I don’t agree with everyone’s “style” here, including yours and you don’t have to agree with me. That’s ok, but when anyone comes on here with both guns blazing, only to attack, I take offense no matter what “side” they are on, and if you haven’t noticed that, that is not my problem.

          • http://naver samurai

            Neither are you! At least I’ve come down in my language a bit (a promise I made to my wife), so what’s your point? You sitting there laughing at people doesn’t help your credibility either. I’m like this because I don’t like the lib answers and accusations on this site. Plus I’ve been a hard corps soldier for 20 years and have never backed down or walked away from anything. Let’s go Michelle Bachmann! Let’s get a Christian in office! FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

          • JeffH

            libertytrain, I find it almost hilarious that “these” people like to hold “us” to a higher standard. It’s almost alwyas a “do as I say, not as I do” mentality.

            Where have I seen or heard that before.

            Saul Alinsky’s “Rules for Radicals” states that “The first step in community(PLD)organization is community disorganization. The disruption of the present organization is the first step toward community organization. Present arrangements must be disorganized if they are to be displace by new patterns…. All change means disorganization of the old and organization of the new.”

            Alinsky teaches his followers that “Moral rationalization is indispensable at all times of action whether to justify the selection or the use of ends or means”

            I believe Rules 3 & 4 are particularly relevant in the “arguement/confrontaions”.
            3. “Whenever possible, go outside the expertise of the enemy. Look for ways to increase insecurity, anxiety and uncertainty. (This happens all the time. Watch how many organizations under attack are blind-sided by seemingly irrelevant arguments that they are then forced to address.)

            4. “Make the enemy live up to its own book of rules. You can kill them with this, for they can no more obey their own rules than the Christian church can live up to Christianity.”

            This is why, in my opinion, it is important to understand the “enemy”.
            They may not have read “Rules for Radicals” but they certainly use the same approach that was taught by Alinsky.

          • libertytrain

            this in particular in light of last night’s postings truly reflects the behavior of eyes. Thanks! Enjoy your weekend.

          • JeffH

            libertytrain, you too! :)

          • Jana

            WOW JeffH,
            That hit the nail right on the head. WOW.

          • April

            Impressive observation JeffH. I love your info and your insights. Thankyou!! HUGE TEXAS SMILES HERE!!

          • http://naver sook young

            Good job JeffH! Thank you.

            Sook Young
            Wife of the Samurai

          • JeffH

            April, all are welcome here but PATRIOTS like yourself are particularly welcome. Strength in numbers, strength in informational exchange and may we continue grow that strength to fight the good fight for GOD AND COUNTRY.

          • Jay

            Jeff, good post friend! FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!!!

          • http://naver samurai

            Well done, fellow patriots! FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

      • Jay

        eyeswideshut, you should try reading the Bible once in a while rather then rely solely on your pastor to tell you what It says. But based on your answers to Jana , I doubt very much that you even attend a church, much less read the Bible! Nice try! As for your claim of being an ex-repub, what else have you got in your bag of tricks?

        • http://marcum1@wildblue.net coal miner

          Jay,

          Eyes,You should read the bible thorughly,It is full of incest,murder,genocide,myths,distorting historical facts and down right lies.It should be banned from the libraries,it ought to be classified as a triple X book.I wouldn’t want my kids reading that obsene fabrications,it could corrupt them and turn them into priest, preachers,Rabbis,and politicians. Ha Ha ha

          • Jay

            Yes coal minor, you are correct. The Bible is full of incest, murder and genocide, not to mention, greed, lies, and how humanity revels in myths and idolatry, always distorting historical facts and perpetrating down right lies, yes, the Bible points and lays out, in no uncertain terms, all the depravity that is to be found in the fallen and depraved man, and of course, the depravity continues. BTW, human nature/behaviour is the one verifiable proof that lends veracity of the Bible. As for your proposal to ban the Bible from the libraries or any public place, as well as, to be classify it as a triple X book merely strengthens the Bible’s veracity of the corruption of man! For darkness hates light, the lie hates the truth, and in your case, the mortally ill refuse the healing of the Physician!

          • http://naver samurai

            Before you commented on my speech on this site, well what about the nonsense that you said here? Christian bashing, in fact any bashing speech, is hate speech in Indiana. I dare you to come to my hometown and start saying that crap. You would be in for a rude awakening. Still throwing feces and swinging from a rubber tire eh? FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

          • http://marcum1@wildblue.net coal miner
          • Jay

            SYNOPSIS OF THE PROTOCOLS
            Goyim are mentally inferior to Jews and can’t run their nations properly. For their
            sake and ours, we need to abolish their governments and replace them with a single
            government. This will take a long time and involve much bloodshed, but it’s for a
            good cause. Here’s what we’ll need to do:

            Place our agents and helpers everywhere

            Take control of the media and use it in propaganda for our plans

            Start fights between different races, classes and religions

            Use bribery, threats and blackmail to get our way

            Use Freemasonic Lodges to attract potential public officials

            Appeal to successful people’s egos

            Appoint puppet leaders who can be controlled by blackmail

            Replace royal rule with socialist rule, then communism, then despotism

            Abolish all rights and freedoms, except the right of force by us

            Sacrifice people (including Jews sometimes) when necessary

            Eliminate religion; replace it with science and materialism

            Control the education system to spread deception and destroy intellect

            Rewrite history to our benefit

            Create entertaining distractions

            Corrupt minds with filth and perversion

            Encourage people to spy on one another

            Keep the masses in poverty and perpetual labor

            Take possession of all wealth, property and (especially) gold

            Use gold to manipulate the markets, cause depressions etc.

            Introduce a progressive tax on wealth

            Replace sound investment with speculation

            Make long-term interest-bearing loans to governments

            Give bad advice to governments and everyone else

            Eventually the Goyim will be so angry with their governments (because we’ll blame
            them for the resulting mess) that they’ll gladly have us take over. We will then
            appoint a descendant of David to be king of the world, and the remaining Goyim will
            bow down and sing his praises. Everyone will live in peace and obedient order under
            his glorious rule.

            http://www.subvertednation.net/protocols-of-elders-of-zion/

          • Jana

            Jay,
            It is too weird. coal says he woulddn’t let his children read the Bible because of all of the bad stuff in it. So he demonstrates for them the bad stuff of the world, sends them out into the world to experience all of the bad stuff and because they were NOT allowed to read God’s word, they have no protection over them.
            Wow what a great daddy he isn’t.

          • Jay

            Jana, coal miner is just one of the many brainwashed anti-Christian moles in the service of his masters, who wish, and have full intent, on destroying America! Wether coal realizes this or not, is uncertain. What is certain, is that he is totally dedicated! If there ever was a better example of a wayward and totally possessed soul, as coal is surely one! Jana, don’t obsess, and do not become to preoccupied with respect to coal. Maintain your distance and guard your emotions!!!

          • JeffH

            If anyone has paid any attention to the quotes and websites that coal posts so regularly, where “Christianity” is in the discussion, it becomes very clear that coal miner is a “satanist”.

          • Jana

            Jay,
            Thanks, I will take that advice and use it. You are so right.

          • Jana

            JeffH,
            You are so right. I hadn’t put that together before to call a satanist a satanist but oh how true.

          • Jay

            Jeff, of that, there can be no doubt!

          • http://marcum1@wildblue.net coal miner

            Jay,jana, and Jeffh,

            Most of the xian donations go to fund war and organized crimminal activities

            The “National and World Council of Churches” includes the membership of the Luthern, Episcopal, Baptist, Presbyterian, Methodist and other denominations.

            “The World Council of Churches and its affiliate, The National Council of Churches supported by church donated dollars quietly help to finance selected covert operations and wars.” “Mainline churches support left-wing causes and killings, and fundamentalist churches support right-wing causes and killings. The blood is on the hands of every donor.”

            “In chilling testamony given at American University in Washington D.C., and televised over C-Span on Dec. 12, 1989, ex-CIA officer John Stockwell told how the Christian Contras burst into the huts of innocent villagers. He saw them drag a man out of one house and castrate him in front of his wife and children. These savages next raped his wife, then cut off her breasts with their bayonets. [Their] terrified children were forced to watch. Again, these atrocities were partially financed by the dollars put in the collection plates of the neighborhood churches that tell the faithful that these special collections go to the ‘world hunger fund.’ Compounding the tragedy, the Nicaraguans are wonderful people, love Americans and still cannot understand why America would do this to them.”² Source Joy of Satan:Don’t forget to domate to this wonderful religion,it exposes lies,corruption,Child porn and Christian fraud.Its tax deductible.Ha Ha Ha

          • JeffH

            coal, you are one sick puppy! I’d almost bet that your computer is full of viruses considering the “brand” of the websites you must surf through.

            A good many things go around in the dark besides Santa Claus.
            Herbert Hoover

          • Jay

            coal miner, it amazes me how dimwitted you are. You obviously have been duped and snookered by labels. But don’t feel bad, you and millions of other people can’t see past labels. Has it ever occurred to you that the best way to ruin an organization is by infiltrating and subverting it from within? This has been going on for years, and you still don’t get it? Fool!

            WE SHALL DESTROY THE CLERGY
            2. WE HAVE LONG PAST TAKEN CARE TO DISCREDIT THE PRIESTHOOD OF THE “GOYIM,” and thereby to ruin their mission on earth which in these days might still be a great hindrance to us. Day by day its influence on the peoples of the world is falling lower. FREEDOM OF CONSCIENCE HAS BEEN DECLARED EVERYWHERE, SO THAT NOW ONLY YEARS DIVIDE US FROM THE MOMENT OF THE COMPLETE WRECKING OF THAT CHRISTIAN RELIGION: as to other religions we shall have still less difficulty in dealing with them, but it would be premature to speak of this now. We shall set clericalism and clericals into such narrow frames as to make their influence move in retrogressive proportion to its former progress.

            3. When the time comes finally to destroy the papal court the finger of an invisible hand will point the nations towards this court. When, however, the nations fling themselves upon it, we shall come forward in the guise of its defenders as if to save excessive bloodshed. By this diversion we shall penetrate to its very bowels and be sure we shall never come out again until we have gnawed through the entire strength of this place.

            4. THE KING OF THE JEWS WILL BE THE REAL POPE OF THE UNIVERSE, THE PATRIARCH OF THE INTERNATIONAL CHURCH

            5. But, IN THE MEANTIME, while we are re-educating youth in new traditional religions and afterwards in ours, WE SHALL NOT OVERTLY LAY A FINGER ON EXISTING CHURCHES, BUT WE SHALL FIGHT AGAINST THEM BY CRITICISM CALCULATED TO PRODUCE SCHISM . . .

            6. In general, then, our contemporary press will continue to CONVICT State affairs, religions, incapacities of the GOYIM, always using the most unprincipled expressions in order by every means to lower their prestige in the manner which can only be practiced by the genius of our gifted tribe . . . (Calling the Jim Jones massacre in Guyana a mass suicide, not a C.I.A./MK-ULTRA/U.S. Government massacre? Denying the massacre of the Branch Dravidian sect at Waco, Texas, was a needless and deliberate massacre by the B.A.T.F./F.B.I/C.I.A/U.S. Government).

            7. Our kingdom will be an apologia of the divinity Vishnu, in whom is found its personification – in our hundred hands will be, one in each, the springs of the machinery of social life. We shall see everything without the aid of official police which, in that scope of its rights which we elaborated for the use of the GOYIM, hinders governments from seeing. In our programs ONE-THIRD OF OUR SUBJECTS WILL KEEP THE REST UNDER OBSERVATION from a sense of duty, on the principle of volunteer service to the State. It will then be no disgrace to be a spy and informer, but a merit: unfounded denunciations, however, will be cruelly punished that there may be no development of abuses of this right.

            8. Our agents will be taken from the higher as well as the lower ranks of society, from among the administrative class who spend their time in amusements, editors, printers and publishers, booksellers, clerks, and salesmen, workmen, coachmen, lackeys, et cetera. This body, having no rights and not being empowered to take any action on their own account, and consequently a police without any power, will only witness and report: verification of their reports and arrests will depend upon a responsible group of controllers of police affairs, while the actual act of arrest will be performed by the gendarmerie and the municipal police. Any person not denouncing anything seen or heard concerning questions of polity will also be charged with and made responsible for concealment, if it be proved that he is guilty of this crime.

            9. JUST AS NOWADAYS OUR BRETHREN, ARE OBLIGED AT THEIR OWN RISK TO DENOUNCE TO THE KAHAL APOSTATES OF THEIR OWN FAMILY or members who have been noticed doing anything in opposition to the KAHAL, SO IN OUR KINGDOM OVER ALL THE WORLD IT WILL BE OBLIGATORY FOR ALL OUR SUBJECTS TO OBSERVE THE DUTY OF SERVICE TO THE STATE IN THIS DIRECTION.

            10. Such an organization will extirpate abuses of authority, of force, of bribery, everything in fact which we by our counsels, by our theories of the superhuman rights of man, have introduced into the customs of the GOYIM …. But how else were we to procure that increase of causes predisposing to disorders in the midst of their administration? …. Among the number of those methods one of the most important is – agents for the restoration of order, so placed as to have the opportunity in their disintegrating activity of developing and displaying their evil inclinations – obstinate self-conceit, irresponsible exercise of authority, and, first and foremost, venality. (Janet Reno? B.A.T.F.? C.I.A.?)

            Source of article: http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/przion6.htm#Protocol%20%20No.%2017

          • http://marcum1@wildblue.net coal miner
  • Jay

    In 1865 a certain Jewish Rabbi named Rzeichorn delivered a speech at Prague. It is a very accurate summary of many aspects of the Protocols which would come to light several decades later. The following document was published eleven years later by Sir John Radcliff, who was assassinated shortly afterwards, giving testimony to the powers of the secret organisation of inner elite Jewry even then. It is also a stark eye-opener for anyone who harbours the impression that true orthodox Judaism is a religion, like others, based upon the pursuit of spiritual betterment, love and universal peace. Just like the Protocols, since this document was published, the plan described within it has provably come to pass: “Gold in the hands of experts will always be the most useful weapon for those that possess it and an object of envy for those who are without it.”

    “With gold one can buy the most upright consciences, with gold one can fix the value of every stock, the price of every merchandise, one can loan it to states that afterwards one holds at ones mercy.”

    “Already the principal banks, the stock exchanges throughout the world, the loans to all the governments are in our hands.”

    “The other great power is the press. By ceaselessly repeating certain ideas, the press in the end makes them considered as truths. The theatre renders similar services, everywhere theatre and press follow our directives. By an indefatigable campaign in favour of the Democratic form of government, we will divide the Gentiles amongst themselves in political parties, we shall thus destroy the unity of their nations, we will sow the seeds of discord. Powerless, they will have to accept the law of our bank, always united, always devoted to our cause.”

    “We will push the Christians into wars, by a judicious exploitation of their pride and stupidity. They will massacre each other and thus make more space where we can place our own people.”

    “The possession of land has always procured influence and power. In the name of social justice and equality, we will divide the great properties; we will give small fragments of these properties to the peasants who desire them with all their heart, but who will soon be indebted to us by the very exploitation of these properties. Our capital will enable us to become the real masters. In our turn we shall become the great owners of land, and this possession will assure our power.”

    “Let us use all our force to replace the circulation of gold by that of paper: our banks will absorb the gold, and we shall decide then what value the paper money will have, this will make us the masters of every man’s existence.”

    “We have amongst ourselves many fine orators capable of feigning enthusiasm and of convincing the masses! We will send them amongst the nations to announce the changes that will make the happiness and prosperity of mankind.”

    “By gold and by flattery, we will win the proletariat, who will take on their shoulders the job of exterminating Christian capitalism. We will promise to the workers salaries that they have never even dared dream of, but we will also heighten the price of all necessities, so much so, that our profits will be even greater.”

    “In this manner we will prepare the revolutions that the Christians will conduct themselves and out of which we shall collect the fruits. By our jokes and by our attacks we will render their priests ridiculous and eventually odious, their religion as ridiculous, as odious as their priests. We shall become masters of their souls, because our pious attachment to our religion will prove to them the superiority of our souls.”

    “We have already established men of ours in all the key positions. Let us make every effort to furnish the goys with lawyers and doctors. Lawyers get to know about every interest. Doctors, once they cross the threshold of a house, become the confessors and directors of their patient’s conscience. But above all, let us get the control of the education, of the schools. By them we will spread the ideas that are useful for us, and we will mould the children’s brains as we wish. If one of us falls into the claws of justice by misfortune, let us all go to his aid, finding as many witnesses as may be needed to save him from his judges until the moment comes when it will be us who will be judges” (Rzeichorn, published by Sir John Radcliff in 1876).

    The preceding quotation was written in 1943 in John Amery’s England and Europe, to which he adds: We have only to add from the ‘Judisk Tidskrift’ No. 57, 1929, the following short passage we owe to the pen of a certain BLUMENTHAL:

    “Our race has given to the world a new Messiah, but he has two faces and bears two names, on one side he is called ROTHSCHILD, head of the great capitalists, on the other, Karl MARX, the high priest of the enemies of capitalism.”

    BLUMENTHAL could have added now that if his Messiah has two faces he also has two masks, that of ROOSEVELT and American imperialism, and that of STALIN and the Communist paradise. Between the two, the British Empire is indeed trapped.

    Source of article: http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/proof.htm#background

    • James

      Jay, Our problem here is that Christians believe that Jews (the most anti-Christian people on the planet) are somehow God’s Chosen people. As long as they believe that, they will follow them, to their complete destruction.

      • Jay

        James, its the elite Cabal, they control the banking, media, economic and the education(education, particularly important to them) systems! Their history and unbroken lineage can be traced back to the old testament, the 72 elders, and continues trough out history, resurfacing in the new testament as the “Pharisees” or the priesthood. Remember them? They are the one’s Jesus drove out of the temple, the money lenders, that practised usury, strictly forbidden! And they are still with us today.

        Here is more of their sinister goals and the means by which they will achieve them. The majority of the American population knows something is wrong, but are somewhat remiss as to how and why!

        From the Elders:

        “We must compel the governments of the goyim to take action in the direction favored by our widely conceived plan, by what we shall represent as public opinion, secretly prompted by us through the means of that so-called ‘Great Power’ — the Press, which, with a few exceptions, is already entirely in our hands.”

        Every American needs to understand that the entire national press is controlled, and is simply giving you the “news” you are supposed to have.  Very soon, all alternative sources of news, including this website, will be shut down. That time draws ever closer.

        “In order to put public opinion into our hands we must bring it into a state of bewilderment by giving expression from all sides to so many contradictory opinions and for such length of time as will suffice to make the [average person] lose their heads in the labyrinth and come to see that the best thing is to have no opinion of any kind, in matters political.”

        Now, you know why the Sunday Morning TV programming is full of “Talking Heads” that so fill the airwaves with opinions on everything, so that the average person is completely bewildered as to what is the truth!  This type of TV programming was foreseen over 100 years ago in The Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion.

        When you combine the power of Rhetoric, above, with the discussion of the Mass Media role, you can understand better the part of the plan coming up next: 

        “The principal object of our directorate consists in this: to debilitate the public mind by criticism; to lead it away from serious reflections calculated to arouse resistance; to distract the forces of the mind towards a sham fight of empty eloquence. In all ages the peoples of the world, equally with individuals, have accepted words for deeds, for they are content with a show and rarely pause to note, in the public arena, whether promises are followed by performance. Therefore, we shall establish show institutions…”

        This single paragraph tells us all we need to know about politicians of both parties, as they gradually guide us into the New World Order. They deliberately intend to “debilitate” our minds and to “distract” us through “sham” speeches of “empty eloquence”. We certainly have seen and heard enough of this type of speaking to last us a lifetime! You can just put the name of any number of politicians on both sides of the aisle that fit this description. Talk, talk, and talk some more, is the motto of the consummate politician.

        Today, the talk is all about Patriotism, blind patriotism.  Just as we did with Clinton, so are we doing with Bush today:  we are accepting “words for deeds” and “rarely pause to note in the public arena, whether promises are followed by performance”.  The American people are sheep ready to sheer.

        The Press was further supposed to fulfill a very basic need in this plan, the need for continual conflict in order to bring about the planned change.  Listen to this portion of The Protocols:

        “In the hands of the States to-day there is a great force that creates the movement of thought in the people, and that is the Press. The part played by the Press is to keep pointing out requirements supposed to be indispensable … and to create discontent.”

        The Press is supposed to keep us in turmoil, because the authors of the Protocol firmly believed that “Conflict Brings About Change, and Planned Conflict Brings About Planned Change” [Hegelian Doctrine, first espoused in 1823, by a Freemason giving Professor Hegel the concept]. Since we are moving, by Plan, toward the calculated change of government — a global, dictatorial government historically unprecedented in power and repression — then we need a lot of planned conflict fed us daily. Wars, rumors of wars, class conflict, and many more tidbits of Bad News floods our consciousness daily. This is the Plan.

        Source of article: http://www.threeworldwars.com/protocols.htm

        • April

          Certainly makes sense Jay!! Even my studies in the Bible concquer with this. Goes back as far back as Ezra discovering that the Levitical Priesthood had been infiltrated by Nethanims. These were those Pharasees who were in the Temple as money changers. This is why John the Baptist (of Levitical pedigree)was in the wilderness instead of in the Temple. Ciaphus, who started the cry to execute Christ, claimed to be a Jew and a High Priest at that was of the lineage of the Nethanims. And the Sadusees can be traced back to the Kenites of 1 Chronicles 2:55. Very ineresting study. Gives an idea who people are today and where they came from.

      • http://marcum1@wildblue.net coal miner

        James,

        Christianity and Judaism are frauds borrow from ancient religious myths.Read Lloyd H.Graham’s Deceptions and myths of the Bible.You can order Mr.Grahm’s book on line as low as five dollars a copy,in paper back or hard cover.Its great reading. By reading this book you will have the understanding how our ancient wisdoms had been stolen from us and replaced by this zionist fraudulent christian scheme.It has not only led to bloody crusades,inquisitions and genocides,but for the past two thousand years it is also has being bilking people out of trillions of dollars that goes in the pockets of bogus preachers and charlatans as well.You don’t have to be a rocket scientist to figure this one out. We had been had.

        • http://naver samurai

          Leave it to coal dungger to post an atheist source and bring up things that ended 100′s of years ago to try to explain things going on today. You are no historian, coal dungger. Stop with the nonsense or I’ll have my wife come onto this site and pray over you. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

          • http://marcum1@wildblue.net coal miner

            are you always that rude to everone who disagree with you?for once be a little courteous when you are addressing someone. You might learn something. First I am not an atheist,secondly I am not a Satanist and thirdly I am a Pantheist.I believe God and the universe are identical.I am a follower of Spinoza.
            Pantheism and theism(differentials of both Philosophies)
            “Where pantheism is considered as an alternative to theism it involves a denial of at least one, and usually both, central theistic claims. Theism is the belief in a “personal” God which in some sense is separate from (transcends) the world. Pantheists usually deny the existence of a personal God. They deny the existence of a “minded” Being that possesses the characteristic properties of a “person,” such as having intentional states, and the associated capacities like the ability to make decisions. Taken as an alternative to, and denial of, theism and atheism, pantheists deny that what they mean by God (i.e. an all-inclusive divine Unity) is completely transcendent. They deny that God is “totally other” than the world or ontologically distinct from it. The dichotomy between transcendence and immanence has been a principal source of philosophical and religious concern in Western and non-Western traditions; and all major traditions have at times turned to pantheism as a way of resolving difficulties associated with the theistic notion of a transcendent deity or reality.

            Not all of the problems generated by the theistic notion of God are also problems for pantheism. But given a suitable reformulation, some of them will be. And, as expected, pantheism will also generate some difficulties peculiar to itself. Thus, although evil and creation do not present identical problems for pantheism and theism, and may even be inherent to theism; it may also be possible to reformulate them in a way that makes them applicable to pantheism. There may be pantheistic counterparts to the problem of evil and other classical theistic problems, and perhaps they can be resolved by pantheism.

            There are probably more (grass-root) pantheists than Protestants, or theists in general, and pantheism continues to be the traditional religious alternative to theism for those who reject the classical theistic notion of God. Not only is pantheism not antithetical to religion, but certain religions are better understood as pantheistic rather than theistic when their doctrines are examined. Philosophical Taoism is the most pantheistic, but Advaita Vedanta, certain forms of Buddhism and some mystical strands in monotheistic traditions are also pantheistic. But even apart from any religious tradition many people profess pantheistic beliefs — though somewhat obscurely. Pantheism remains a much neglected topic of inquiry. Given their prevalence, non-theistic notions of deity have not received the kind of careful philosophical attention they deserve. Certainly the central claims of pantheism are prima facie no more “fantastic” than the central claims of theism — and probably a great deal less so”.Standford Encloypedia of Philosophy:

          • JeffH

            Well coal, from what I can gather, taken in the strictest sense, i.e. as identifying God and the world, Pantheism is simply Atheism.

            Christian apologist Daniel Waterland used the noun “pantheism” for the first time, condemning the belief as “scandalously bad… scarce differing from… Atheism.”
            http://atheism.about.com/library/glossary/general/bldef_pantheism.htm

          • http://naver samurai

            Coal dungger, how you feel or how you worship I can care less. This “religion” of yours is nothing but satanism. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

          • JeffH

            samurai, Hear Hear! For GOD AND COUNTRY!

          • http://naver samurai

            Thanks JeffH! Keep up the good fight, fellow patriot! FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

          • Jay

            Samurai, a while back I distinctly remember coal miner admitting he was an Agnostic. Now he claims he is pantheistic, what will tomorrow bring?

          • http://naver samurai

            Jay, I guess it’ll be SOS DD as always. Keep up the good fight, fellow patriots! FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

  • James

    I believe any white woman could defeat Preident Obama in 2012. Faced with a black man or a white woman, Bachmann or Palin could win easily. All women, the majority of the electorate, would vote for the woman, along with all other voters who dislike Obama.

    • Jana

      James,
      All I have to say is, a white woman didn’t beat him before.

      When we have people with the mentality of eyes and coal on here and see how truly messed up their thinking is, and know they vote as well as influence others, that tells you there are a lot more mixed up people out there.
      Those mixed up people that were hippies and anti government radicals that got out and demonstrated against the United States and made bombs and destroyed things, are now the Professors of our Colleges turning mush minded youth into more anti government radicals.
      This shows that we have our work cut out for us, because they are wrong and we need to teach what is right.

      • Jana

        Or actually anti-American radicals.

    • http://marcum1@wildblue.net coal miner

      JeffH,

      Wrong Jeff,Like “atheism” the term “pantheism” was used in the eighteenth century as a term of “theological abuse,” and it often still is (Tapper 1987). A.H. Armstrong says the term “pantheistic” is a “large, vague term of theological abuse,” (Armstrong 1976: 187). With some exceptions, pantheism is non-theistic, but it is not atheistic. It is a form of non-theistic monotheism, or even non-personal theism. It is the belief in one God, a God identical to the all-inclusive unity, but pantheists (generally) do not believe God is a person or anything like a person. The fact that pantheism clearly is not atheistic, and is an explicit denial of atheism, is disputed by its critics. The primary reason for equating pantheism with atheism is the assumption that belief in any kind of “God” must be belief in a personalistic God, because God must be a person. Source: Standford Encloypedia of Philosophy

      • http://marcum1@wildblue.net coal miner

        Jeffh,Jana, Jay and samurai,

        http://www.pantheism.net/paul/index.htm

        • http://marcum1@wildblue.net coal miner
        • JeffH

          coal miner, you’re trying to convince the wrong person here…you are what you are no matter what garment you choose to cloth yourself with.

          Your devil revels in deception.

        • Jay

          Ok coal miner, we get it, you see our Christian beliefs as nothing more then non-sense, myths, delusions. Fine! Why not turn the tables, and tell us, what do you believe in? I remember you mentioned you are an agnostic. According to the definition, an agnostic is a person who believes that nothing is known, or can be known, of the existence or nature of God, or of anything beyond material phenomena; a person who claims neither faith nor disbelief in God.

          So, if you are indeed an agnostic, then why in the world are you engaged in a discussion on whether God exists or not, whether someone’s religion is delusion or not, whether a particular religion is based on myth or not, and usually, your refutations and ridicule of one’s religious beliefs, as far as I can tell, based on all your copying and pasting, are always the opinion’s of some professor or other’s opinion, however educated they may be! To say you are an agnostic then, and based on its definition, in that, not only do you claim to not know if something exists, but you, in particular, have stated on many occasions, you believe for certain nothing exists beyond the natural, while at the same time you ridicule someone who is theistic, seems to me to be somewhat contradictory!!! It appears you are not an agnostic, unless of course you have a different definition of such, but you are something else entirely. My bet, as Jeff rightly pointed out, and you, yourself, let the cat out of the bag by revealing certain blog cites that you belong to, are a satanist!!! So now all your contradictory arguments, comments, links that you direct us to, and your vehement hatred for Christianity makes perfect sense! How long did you think that you could keep this up, hiding your true identity and what motivates your hatred for Christianity, before we would figure it out?

          • http://marcum1@wildblue.net coal miner

            Jay,

            Wrong! Christianity make no sense at all.You got the universe created in seven days,the sun going around the Earth, and another ridiculous statement from the Bible, Christ told his flock that some of them will live to see the kingdom of Heaven on Earth,he didn’t show,so he must meant one thousand years.Where is he? And two thousnd years later, still no show.Christianity makes sense?You got to be a kidding.As for me blogging other websites doesn’t that make me one of them?I blog this site.Does that me a Conservative?Oh!Come on fellows you can do better than.

          • Jay

            Christianity makes no sense to you because your a blind wretched fool, a leaf in the wind, intellectually frustrated, incapable of sound reasoning or understanding, full of hate and full of Sh*t! Even the things you claim to believe in, you don’t understand. You copy and paste someone else’s meagre understanding. I have yet to hear coal’s understanding of what coal believes and why coal believe it. But I can clearly see that you are incapable of such. So go ahead, copy and paste someone else’s words and beliefs, spew your hatred of Christianity until you wear yourself out. Many of idiots, and superior intellectually to you, have wasted their life and energy, having worn out their hammers on the anvil of Christianity. They’re gone, and soon you will be too, yet, Christianity still stands, and always will! FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!!!!

    • http://marcum1@wildblue.net coal miner

      Jay,
      Stop with your childish twisting of my words,it makes you look like a fool.I am both agnostic and a pantheist.

      The late Albert Einstein also said he was both agnostic and a pantheistic,So did Steven Hawking.I am a proud member of The World Pantheistic Movement and hope one we can replce these vampiric religious frauds such as Islam,Judaism and Christianity.Than we can have peace.

      • http://marcum1@wildblue.net coal miner

        I left out day.

        Jay,
        Stop with your childish twisting of my words,it makes you look like a fool.I am both agnostic and a pantheist.

        The late Albert Einstein also said he was both agnostic and a pantheistic,So did Steven Hawking.I am a proud member of The World Pantheistic Movement and hope one day we can replce these vampiric religious frauds such as Islam,Judaism and Christianity.Than we can have peace.

        Reply

        • Jay

          You’re all fool!!! You cannot be both, therefore you are neither, atheistic nor pantheistic. I’m not sure what you are, and no doubt, neither do you. Hawkins is a fool, Einstein with regards to this issue, is a fool, and so are you for agreeing with them. Why, do you think by agreeing with and following them you hope to be added to the intellectual elite? Hardly, your Simpleton!!!

  • Jay

    The left changes monikers whenever their chosen title becomes too easily identified with their collectivist political intentions. They seized the title “Progressives” in the early 20th century and adopted “Liberal” when the progressive image became tarnished. Today, with liberalism inextricably linked to collectivism, the left has returned to the progressive label. But one problem remains. Words have meanings that defy distortion, and neither “progressive” nor “liberal” accurately reflects the left’s governing philosophy.

    The case has been made, on the pages of American Thinker itself, that identifying the leftist as a Progressive or Liberal is erroneous. It has been stated that policies declared to be progressive or liberal are actually backward and authoritarian. Thus, the leftist has been aptly identified, based on policy and result, as regressive.

    To state the case further, not even the definition of “progressive” or “liberal” identifies with the leftist ideology. It’s just that the left has manipulated those words until the distortion has become accepted. It is a common practice, for they routinely ignore reality and wear their title du jour like camouflage.

    “Progressive” is defined as advocating, attaining, or being characterized by improvement and forward thinking. It dates to the early 17th century and became politicized in the late 1800s. The modern left isn’t progressive in the practical or classical sense of the word. In fact, much of what constituted progressivism during the early 20th century is the antithesis of contemporary leftist beliefs.

    Early Progressives certainly desired social change, but they regularly utilized private organizations — such as churches and charities — for effecting their transformations. Not even the Progressive Era’s trust-busting government regulators were akin to today’s leftists. Those reformers sought to protect the future of market competition from monopolistic mergers and thwart the fledgling communist movements. Creating a labyrinth of bureaucratic red tape wasn’t their primary objective.

    Nothing in the word “progressive” and little in early progressivism describes today’s leftist. The left has no desire to defend capitalism, foster competition, or accomplish their vision of social justice via private channels. They have only an insatiable lust for control.

    Leftists promote nothing new; their goals are those of an archaic doctrine. Forward thinking isn’t featured in their agenda, the purpose of which is to repackage policies that are proven failures. “Bolshevik” is more descriptive than “progressive,” for the left shares the Bolshevik’s socialistic dreams. They are mired in the past, rendering “progressive” an inappropriate description.

    Socialist ideals quickly co-opted the early Progressive movement, giving the title a black eye. Leftists then adopted “Liberal,” a more inviting identifier, but one that also defies their agenda.

    “Liberal” spawns from the Latin “liberalis” and “liber” meaning noble, generous, and free. A genuine liberal bristles at authoritarian attitudes and fulfills the nature of the word. America’s leftists, conversely, are adamant in their support for a domineering central government and generous only when distributing their neighbors’ property.

    Leftist liberalism defines not freedom, but the welfare state. Their concept of liberalism frees one segment of society to live at another segment’s expense. Leftists then pat each other on the back for their thoughtfulness and generosity. It is indeed a warped vision.

    Leftists have moved from Progressives to Liberals and back to Progressives, but in name only, never in definition. Their quasi-metamorphosis results from their ever-present collectivist mentality. Once the public realizes the agenda behind the name, the name is changed to obfuscate the agenda.

    The left is an immutable lie; let’s call it that. Their social desires reflect a statism worthy of Marx, Lenin, or Mao. They’re trapped in the past, in antiquated testaments to a flawed and failed philosophy where liberty is defined as the ability to avoid responsibility. Ignored is the unassailable truth that liberty without responsibility is nonexistent. Leftists demand allegiance to a backward dependency. To call them Progressives or Liberals is patently false.

    The left cannot be allowed the privilege of defining their nature. Today’s “Progressive Liberal” desires to rob us of our autonomy and render us wards of a collectivist state. Their label should reflect their innate desire to move society backward. Leftists are regressive in every sense of the word. The Regressive label has been proposed for them before. Let it become their perpetual identifier.

    http://www.americanthinker.com/2010/07/leftists_are_neither_progressi.html

    • JeffH

      Jay, “The left changes monikers whenever their chosen title becomes too easily identified with their collectivist political intentions”.

      To understand them you must understand Saul Alinsky and his Rules for Radicals which provides the common denominator needed to understand the ideas of the Marxist/communist/socialist/proggresives agitators.

      “Of Means and Ends” [Forget moral or ethical considerations]

      “The end is what you want, the means is how you get it. Whenever we think about social change, the question of means and ends arises. The man of action views the issue of means and ends in pragmatic and strategic terms. He has no other problem; he thinks only of his actual resources and the possibilities of various choices of action. He asks of ends only whether they are achievable and worth the cost; of means, only whether they will work. … The real arena is corrupt and bloody.”

      “The means-and-ends moralists, constantly obsessed with the ethics of the means used by the Have-Nots against the Haves, should search themselves as to their real political position. In fact, they are passive — but real — allies of the Haves…. The most unethical of all means is the non-use of any means… The standards of judgment must be rooted in the whys and wherefores of life as it is lived, the world as it is, not our wished-for fantasy of the world as it should be….”

      “The third rule of ethics of means and ends is that in war the end justifies almost any means….”

      “The seventh rule… is that generally success or failure is a mighty determinant of ethics….”

      “The tenth rule… is you do what you can with what you have and clothe it with moral garments…. It involves sifting the multiple factors which combine in creating the circumstances at any given time… Who, and how many will support the action?… If weapons are needed, then are appropriate d weapons available? Availability of means determines whether you will be underground or above ground; whether you will move quickly or slowly…”

      • Jay

        Yes Jeff, I certainly get it. War is war, and war happens on many levels, and war, or subjugation of the masses is all about killing and breaking things, and on the mental, spiritual and emotional level, its about killing and destroying logic, morality, ethics, suppressing rights etc…any and all means to achieve the end, which is, compliance, obedience and producing a useful idiot of the regressive Marxist government. As for guns and bullets, they are used only when met with serious resistance!!! FLAP-JACKETS ON!!!

  • http://burkecomputers.blogspot.com/ DanB

    After a bit of reading all the arguing among the faiths (even within faiths), I had to just scroll to the bottom.

    I am glad that she and her family pray about their choices. Good for them. I think I should pray more often. Most of the time I just go with that “it feels like the right thing to do” feeling without really pondering it.

  • http://PersonalLibertyDigest Wiselady

    6-15-11
    Wiselady says:

    Coal minor, you have been digging into too many holes and I am sure you are/tired of having to use that heavy, “pick”, to dig for what ever you were digging. But, did you ever, “dig”, into the Bible and read it as a History book? You would be surprised what you will find about those characters that describe our human race. It is a history book that goes back thousands of years, even before Jesus’ time. View it that way when you start at the beginning and don’t pause to try to figure it out with your own interpretations and ideas…remember that you are simply readign a book. It might take you a long time but if you are impatient, start with the New Testament..it is shorter. There you wiil find the unfolding of a beautiful character who is now known throughout the world. The book of Isaiah closely relates to this person.

    I know that the Dead Sea Scrolls are real…I saw them when I volunteered in The City’s Museum in Southern Calif. They are real. Don’t start with the Bible, if you don’t wish, start with the Scrolls for the facts.That might help to make you feel more like an inquisitive reader for information with an open mind.

    Allow me to tell you a true story that took place in the museum. The lady’s name was Miriam, a Biblical name. I was chosen to escort her thoughout the entire display of the Dead Sea Scrolls because she was partially blind and elderly. I spent the whole day reading to her.

    When young, and out of the Army as a nurse after WII with two degrees, one in Social Scicences and the other as a Registered Nurse. Miriam decided to help and nursed wounded, tired, injured, hurt and emotionally disturbed military personnel. She tried the, social understanding and compassion, approach along with whatever medications could be given to these dear people to help them recover from shock and serious nervous illnesses. As they improved, they were given leave for the week-ends but many became alcholics and she became irritated and fed up with their behavior. Mind you, she was not a religious woman but looked for books that could help her cope.The Bible was one of them. Her dedication was most incredible; never gave up because she felt she could help them overcome their hurts.

    We took our time walking from document to document in a very quiet, solem and historically rich atmosphere inside the museum. We came upon one of the documents which I read to her, which stated that,”God became angry against those who drank themselves to missery and warned them of the consequences if they continued”. The quote in the Scroll and in the Bible escapes at the moment. When I was through reading the Scroll, she yelled very loudly in the midst of a huge but quiet crowd, “I did it right!, I did it right”, and began to cry. I put my arms around her and quietly let her know that the Scroll must have reminded her of something that touched her life deeply.

    After calming down, she related to me that she had been in charge of a ward full of injured and sick men who were receiving medical care. Upon imporvement, they were given a week-end pass. Unfortunately, they would return drunk. She became fed up with all the drunkenss with those who went on leave from the hopsital for week-ends, that she made up her mind to give Bibles to all those under her care and they were to read it like a book if they wanteda leave on. She supervised their reading in a quiet atmoshphere to make sure they read it.

    The Scroll I had read to her was one that she had read to them over and over again at the end of each quiet reading session. She related that Scroll story found in the Bible to their behavior. Gradully, their behavior and attitude towards getting drunk began to improve remarkably by allowing them only a few hours during the week ends. Little by little,the group that was allowed on leave, began to grow with all of them returning sober, and only then did she trust them to receive an extended time for the week-end. It was a long process but it worked. Ultimately, she gained their respect.

    She was a very strong will individual who not only touched the lives of many with her faith and determination; she touched mine,too with her dedication, love and devotion to God’s word. It gave her inner peace that she had helped these men regain a new outlook on life.

    I, too, have experienced miraculous healing when my M.D. and Osteopathic Physician discovered that I had a tumor in my right ear, very close to the brain area. I attended church and it began, they announced that there would be prayer for healing for anyone who wanted to participate. Who did I see walk to the altar to pray for the sick? My own pysician. i did not know that she was a Christian. The most facinating ending to the true story is that my Jewish ear specialist confirmed it but had a hard time believing it.

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