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ATF: Tax proposal ‘will kill U.S. jobs’

May 12, 2009 by  

Tax proposal 'will kill U.S. jobs,' according to the ATF President Obama has vowed to raise more than $200 billion through a crackdown on what he called corporate tax loopholes, causing the anger of many in the business community.

Americans for Tax Reform (ATF) has given voice to that criticism by enumerating some of the "job-killing" provisions of the current tax code.

Quoting OECD statistics, it says the U.S. has a combined marginal corporate rate of nearly 40 percent, the highest in the developed world.

It also claims America is one of the few countries that double-taxes the international profits of its companies, although there are regulations, such as the deferral provision, that allow companies to avoid this double taxation until they repatriate the profits to the U.S.

The organization concludes that if Obama follows through on his plan to scrap the deferral rule without lowering the corporate rate or reforming the tax code, American companies will set up permanent foreign headquarters, taking jobs and capital with them.

Obama has said the money is needed to narrow the yawning budget deficit that is projected to reach $1.8 trillion this year.

He has also suggested that removing incentives for U.S. companies to move their operations offshore to avoid paying corporate income taxes will encourage them to create more jobs in America, spurring economic growth.
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  • Mark Moore

    Hi

    • Gene

      Most Americans are being fooled by our naitons Greedy Rich people who care nothing about the future of our Nation.

      Our Nation needs to bring manufacturing back to USA only this will allow our Grandchildren to enjoy the same life syle we have enjoyed.

      I’m retired from Boeing Aircraft Company.
      China agreed to buy Aircraft from Boeing only after Boeing agreed to move some manufacturing to China. The percentage of any Boeing Aircraft made in China is growing every year.

      Our Leaders in Washington, DC need to make trade agreements with other Nations for Americans instead of getting votes.

      My thoughts of a Trade agreement is if you buy $200.00 of your product from me, I agree to buy $200.00 of your product from you.

      Its that simple folks, lets get our Elected Leaders on board.

      • http://naver Brady

        Hello, everyone! Well, it seems that you all were so much in a hurry to get Bush out of office that you put this very inexperienced fool into office(Obama). I own an industrial complex and proud to say that I employ 300 American workers. They all have good benefits ($1,000,000 life insurance, etc…) and even during this financial downturn, I’ve been smart enough to “play the game” right. This means I’ll increase my workforce by 10% (30 workers) bt the end of June. Some of you may think “oh gee, he’s rich and don’t care about the people”, well, how about this. All my employees are Americans and not illegal aliens. This is helping out my little corner of Indiana. I also give money to the Red Cross, Salvation Army, and to the Faith Mission (A homeless shelter in our area.). I also pay my taxes on time, no matter the amount. I’ve been writing to my senators and the governor about illegal aliens in Indiana. I’m also flexible about if my workers need days off for personal business. I tell them that if they work at least half of the day, I’ll give them a full day’s pay. What do you think about this so far? If you have any comments, please send them. If you have a negative comment, please tell me in good taste.

        • Sylvan Malis

          Thank you Brady. I didn’t want to get into a debate with people who think that it is the rich who are at cause of all of the problems. It is a losing argument. They really don’t understand the mechanism of successful capitalism and everything that comes from financial success, like the things you have itemized. I’m also sure that you didn’t mention everything you are doing because it would take too much space to itemize how your success is benefiting people you don’t even know.

          Again thanks for a view of the positive side of our country and the system that made it so successful. It is hard for people to understand that if it were not for people like you we would not have the lifestyle that we now (and can still enjoy for a little while) have. As soon as obama implements his full package that lifestyle will be gone and then watch people yell.

    • bob

      gene! those so-called greedy rich are why you had a job!!! lets look at where some more of the so-called greed lies. how bout your union you probably belonged to that drove the costs up so high, they had to put manufacturing offshore!! also, gene, in order to intice people to buy products, especially with military equipment, you have to offer an incentive to buy, meaning, they, under license, produce certain components or most of the components of items. you tax the hell out of people and companies, they leave!!! just look at states like bankrupt california, (1,000,000 people have left in the past 10 years) new york, new jersey!! people are taxed to death, so there leaving for reduced tax states!!!

      • Dickie

        Bob, I hate to say it, But look who these people keep putting in office time after time, They deserve what they get, They do not deserve the rest of us being taxed to death to bail them out!. Let pelosi,boxer,& the other demon-craps, bail them out,pelosi flys in a goverment jet at a cost of $65,000.00. per wk to ride her family & puppets around,Does people not know that all these thugs that have been in office are the ones that sent our jobs to other countrys, The sweet old boy ted,reid,muthar,that old trairant byrd, & old republicans to, We have got to put all these evil people OUT,And start over what in the hell have we got to lose, They are loseing American pride,And America, Do you honstley think they would just pay your taxes,Only when you wanted to hold an office with NO finds+ intrest like boxer the tax cheet,And barney franks that is still giveing millons to acorn,So they can keep voter fraud strong,franks said the const,was just a bother,to keep the goverment at somewhat bay, But these poor mislead people that watch the state own media,And really beleve the lies & half truths, Even when they say the tea party people are just stupid rednecks, And just want to start trouble thats all.

  • William Sowles

    If the Obama Administration is serious about the return of Capital to the USA, it should look at cutting the Corporate Income Tax; cutting the Capital Gains Tax to 0; AND MOST IMPORTANT OF ALL: Cut the Inheritance Tax (Death Tax) to 0. Then with the Billions and Billions, perhaps Trillions of Dollars available for growth and investment in our economy, he (Our President) wouldn’t have to waste his valuable time dreaming up Trillions in USG giveaways.

    • bob

      nice bill!!
      you think maybe were changing his mind with his admitting that borrowing and borrowing is not the answer, that HE is going to saddle our kids kids with enormous debt? that his policy of tax and spend is not the way to go? its a nice thought, but no, unfortunately, i don’t think he’s had a change of heart regarding his own failed policy’s so far. he thinks what HE is doing(printing more money, growing govt, borrowing and spending(wasting) is the answer. yes, the failed answer. you know, you put enough cow poop in your garden, its going to grow like crazy for awhile. but keep throwing it in and what do you get, a huge pile of smelly, (earth warming) cow poop that kills everything!!! remember, poop in moderation is good, overpoop can kill!!!

      • William Sowles

        I DON’T THINK IT’S HIS MIND WE HAVE TO CHANGE, RATHER, IT’S HIS ‘CLIENTS’ MINDS WE HAVE TO CHANGE.

        • Dennis Deckard

          No. It is defeat of the enemy that is required. We must not negotiate, but clearly execute the plan that results in defeat of the enemy. Regime Change!

  • Sylvan Malis

    It’s too late! I am already moving my operations to South America. It was bad enough with Bush’s creation of Homeland Security and the attack on the protections of the Constitution. Then the financial system manipulations and deficit spending with increased taxation. Now a pretender to the office of President who is a Marxist and is moving the country to a socialist based society and is trying to invalidate the rest of the Constitution is the last straw. The trend is documented and I am not going to be the last one standing when the music stops. So I have already started the process to move not only the jobs but also the income and finances off-shore. I will also apply for dual citizenship to protect my assets that are derived from business that never touches the US in either sales or the production of products.

    When Obama is removed from office and the US finally wakes up and reverses the damage that has been and is presently being done then I will plan on returning my business operations to the US. Until then I will live and operate in a country that has more economic and personal freedoms than the US presently has. Anyone who still believes that the US may have its problems but there isn’t any place that is better is living in the past. There are many places that are now as good and getting better. Please don’t get me wrong, I still love the USA and I will work to make it better where I can but I will not go down with the ship and Obama is the first real threat to sinking the ship.

    • Dave

      What country are you going to?

    • bob

      but wait, i thought taxing offshore monies was going to bring jobs back to the US? NOT!!!!! good for you sir, i hope there comes a point when this country wakes up and realizes that this closet communist (i use to just call him a socialist/closet communist, he’s graduated, (maybe he should receive a degree from the saul alinski (sp?) school of cummunism (is he really a constitutional law professor) oh yea, he already received that degree) is killing this country, stealing our rights and property and making a good living a crime!!! so good luck sir, we look forward to the day you can come back. and hopefully, commieobami can be impeached soon and kicked out, and or he’ll be gone in 2!! (read, lame duck!)

    • William Sowles

      Sylvan, you might think about moving your business to Washington State. Even though Washington State has had Demo Gov’s for the past 20 years, there still is no State Income, Inheritance or Capital Gains tax. Great for Individuals and Business. At least Microsoft, Boeing, Brown & Haley Candy Co., St. Michelle Winery, Bayline Boats, Hewlett Packard, and many, many more fine American Companies, think so. If you are from CA you will discover the great housing values here. A lot of house for the money, that is if you can put up with the rain. But, when WA State has it’s summer, (4 July-1Sept) it is the most glorious weather on the planet! So give Washington State a thought, it just might be worth your while.

      • Sylvan Malis

        Thanks for the suggestion. I have thought about Washington before and almost bought property in Battleground (Vancouver). But even in Washington the same problem still exists. The federal government!

        Until the states, or the people, put the federal government under control the same problems affect all the “we the people” everywhere in the country. At this time it is a possibility that the federal government can declare Marshall law and march troops into any state that “rebels” against any of the illegal laws being passed by the current administration. This is what I don’t want to expose my business to. As much as I love the USA, I don’t want to be a prisoner of the USSA (the United Socialist States of Amerika.

        And as much as you believe that Washington has great benefits to live and work there, and I do agree with you, you still have the same threat from the federal government especially with a Democratic governor who probably cow-tails to the lock-step orders of the obama administration. Just ask your self if this governor accepted any of the stimulus money? There you will have the answer of rather or not you have a problem. If the feds sent in troops would he put his back against the wall and tell them to get the —– out? Probably not (same thing here) and that is why I am getting out of Dodge until things change. It is interesting that a lot of people voted for him because he promoted a change (no one stopped to ask him exactly what changes he was talking about and the changes he did talk about he lied) and now more and more people are realizing that we need to change the change. Good luck!

        • William Sowles

          Sylvan, it’s not all that bad up here. The Washington (very liberal) State Senate voted to succeed from the Federal Government last month, if need be, and we have several large military institutions here, that I know for a fact, the Soldiers, therein would take a very dim view of any overt actions by the Feds to impose Marshal Law here for political reasons. If Mount Raineer blew it’s top, in that case, the State would impose Martial Law for safety reasons, but not for political reasons. The main reason Wa State has not had an activist Republican Governor in over 20 years is that no such person in Washington, other than our homegrown Conservative Commentator, John Carlson of KVI Radio, and Dino Rossi a local commercial real estate developer, has taken the opportunity to run for Governor. The only way things will change for the better and they will, will be when we the People get involved to make change happen. We have two US Senatorial seats up for election as well a several Congress seats. Run for one of those and you too, can be a seed for change. Cutting and runnning to a non-sequitor Latin American country is not the answer. Many nice places there to visit but not for a Yankee to live.

      • Angela

        WA is the last place that is business friendly!!!!!!

        You conveniently forgot the B&O tax that is based on gross not net and the greeners that make building so expensive your costs double (conservative estimate)!
        Then there’s King County that is sooooooo………green if mention Capitalism you practically get pummeled, twice as hard to deal with then the rest of the state and don’t forget Seattle. Mayor Nichols will spend 40k on “no car” days, close streets to promote walking and the fallacy of “global warming” whilst on the city is on verge of bankruptcy !
        Furthermore-the multimillionaire founder of one companies you mentioned has left Washington because of the taxes.

    • Gerry

      Hey now,
      While I hate and loath Bush as much as the next guy, it was not Bush that created the Department of Homeland Security. He opposed the plan. The US Senate especially McCain and Rockefeller kept up the “9-11 Commission” pressure to get it passed. He even warned about the problems that it would cause. Katrina and the New Orleans disaster were a direct result. FEMA was so busy trying to co-ordiante with HS, that they responded too slowly, had too much interferrence. Hey no bureacrat wanted to be hauled in front of a congressional investigation (like Christie Todd-Wittman was after 9-11) for saving lives but not complying with all the paperwork. Look at that nitwitt Nelson from Florida demanding that NASA’s inspectors weren’t filling out enough accident reports, (why? because they changed the metric: fewer accidents were the goal, not more accident reports).

      • Sylvan Malis

        Will I guess it is who you listen to. No matter, he may or may not have directly created DHS (according to what I have read he designed it), he did embrace it and use it to further his control of the countries finances. He appointed a cabinet level secretary and used Iraq funding to fund DHS.

        So rather or not you agree with the facts and rather or not you want to split hairs as to who created it, DHS is still making rules and regulations that are against the Constitution and patiently illegal and Bush didn’t lift a little finger to stop them. It was Bush’s boys (Cheney and gang) who organized and conducted operations that were worse than the terror that has been accredited to the middle east people, and this is an unarguable fact. Only people who don’t want to acknowledge the proven facts, stick their heads in the sand, and believe all of the vomit that Washington spews believe otherwise. And please don’t reply with a debate about the evidence because I don’t have the time or patience to do so.

        It you have a different opinion then that is your business and I wish you luck. There are many people who don’t believe or want to believe the facts and they are the reason we are at the point we are at now! A government that lies at the drop of a hat! And people who believe the lies!

        • Gerry

          I wish that you would list at least one fact. can you show me even one “rule” made up by DHS during the Bush years that infringed on any right, or violated the constitution. Please reference a CFR number with that rule and explain how it has. You speak of facts but don’t give one. You claim you don’t have the time to engage in a rational debate, but just throw out demonstrably false statements.
          You claim it is who you listen to. Well I watched the entire set of hearings on C-Span. One representative after another from government agencies that would be affected were there opposing the plan and agreeing with President Bush that it was a bad idea. Bush only reluctently went along after it was clear that the “American People” were in favor of it.
          I wasn’t and said so at the time.
          Please “unarguable fact” sorry to tell you but you seem abit off the meds. Muslims have been engaged in a genocidal war against everyone for over nearly 1400 years. Where has Bush done anything comperable? Name me even one instance.
          Have you ever heard of BDS – its called Bush Derangement Syndrome. I think you should have yourself checked out for it.

    • Dickie

      Hey,It is people like YOU that keep voteing the same old people in time after time, I know YOU don”t want hear it, But your good old boys & girls, Like pelosi,boxer,reid,muthar,& don”t forget sweet old slug kennedy, All the other thugs that have been in for years, Have sold America out, They did this to us you tradtor, Your buddys have turn on you, & you are not going to be the only one, You are one of those slum loards that keep all the money to yourself, While you pay s–t for wages, You people are no better than terrorist around the world, You screw the people you feel need to be at your service, & doing them a damn favor by giveing them a job, Not realzing that if it were not for them you would not have S–T. You loser, Shut the hell up,Telling lies on Pres. Bush, If you were not Damn coward,and wanted the truth, Clowns like you would STOP watching the state own media,But these mice were panties,like puppets on a string they would sell out their own mothers to keep a job, It is greed that makes trash like you that think you should have everything,And nobody else should have nothing, Finaly you asshole the poor people don”t have the loopholes, You garbage, Now you see how it feels to be screwed LOL.If you stupidass people don”t can not see what is plane as day, What is going on you are pitteyful, Your hussein obama, is the one that put all the tax cheets in his cabinet, And instead of shutting down acorn for stealing our money, & voter fraud, He gives them millons more, Oh you would not know THAT because you arrogant clown watch the STATE OWN NEWS. I will pray as hard as I can for you to lose everything you have, You dirty coward. When was the last time did you or anyone else voted on any bill or law WHEN, We need more true AMERICANS like MR.BRADLY, You would not have the right to lick the dirt off of Pres. Bushes shoes. How dare you even claim to be an AMERICAN.

      • Sylvan Malis

        I don’t know what drugs you have been using or maybe you are one of the latest graduates of the liberal school systems. BUT if you can read then go back and read again. But first put down the booze and sober up.

        Every single thing you have said is WRONG. I would tell you to get up from the liberal news system, turn off the TV, and go out and get some exercise but I can see that you are already getting plenty of exercise. You JUMP to so many conclusions that you are getting plenty of exercise.

        People like you don’t think and that is why I won’t waste my time correcting you on each point you said. Too bad you can’t be part of the solution instead of being part of the problem.

        And by the way, did you just wake up and find that there is a revolution going on? I wrote that comment almost a month ago suggesting that we throw out the democratic morons who are in office now. Have you been so incapacitated for all of that time that you couldn’t even keep up. If you are old enough I’ll bet that you ran to Canada to hide from the draft during the Viet Nam War, and if not, you probably would have.

        Instead of make wrong conclusions and nonproductive comments maybe you are better off to go back to the bottle and return to the incapacitated state of unconsciousness. By the way if you are really brave, try sobering up before replying. It might make your reply a little more rational.

  • Joe Dickey

    Has it occurred that Obama was elected, in part, to give away money? Most of the people I know who supported Obama and the Democrats did so because they promised to spend federal dollars for the “working class poor” and entitlements. He has a free pass by a majority of the electorate to spend more, increase bureacracy and tax the “rich”. Think about it.

  • Robin from Indiana

    Obama wouldn’t have to up the taxes on businesses if he and his Congress weren’t spending money like drunken sailors! Our economy could turn around more quickly if the flat tax was imposed. There are a lot of people (illegal aliens mostly) who work ‘under the table’ and don’t pay into the system. This would sure make a difference in how much revenue is collected if they and everyone else was only taxed on what they bought. How much fairer could it be?

    • Gerry

      Want a fairer tax system. Tax people who are non-productive at higher rates, and no tax on those who actually produce. Government employees, lawyers, should pay massively high taxes. People who produce everything farmers,fishermen, miner, lumberjacks, truck drivers, manufacturing workers, auto worker should pay nothing. A wide array of tax rates should come into play. Bankers and realestate people should pay the next highest because they produce nothing. CEOs of companies that just import cheap good from China India and Mexico should pay well over 100%.

      • Sylvan Malis

        And who is going to be the one to determine who is productive and who isn’t??? This sounds very much like socialism and communism. Set up commissions and commissioners who would then set the appropriate tax rates and of course their jobs are very important and productive they wouldn’t pay high taxes, maybe even so important by their thinking that they wouldn’t pay any taxes.

        And that is the problem, whose thinking will everyone, no exceptions, accept to be the judge and jury on setting the different rates? We would be right back at the same problem except instead of “high taxes” being the problem, the “tax rate and who sets it” would be the problem.

        Let’s focus on the real issue. Taxes are illegal and any tax is wrong. The problem is not how much or who pays how much, but that there is any tax what so ever.

        The founding fathers of the Constitution saw this with what England was doing and designed a system that got rid of the problem by eliminating the taxes. And now we have not only recreated the problem but improved it by making it ten time worse.

        Let’s back a candidate like Keyes, Paul, or Baldwin who know what the problem is and are willing to get rid of taxes and the Federal Reserve. Let’s back a party like the Constitution Party that actively campaigns to put candidates into office with but one purpose, and that is to get rid of all Federal laws and branches of federal government that are not in keeping with the Constitution!

        • Gerry

          Sorry Sylvan but I guess I wasn’t clear. People who “produce things” (farmers, miners, lumberjacks, fishermen, cattle ranchers, people who work in factories making things) as well as people who move these things arround (truck drivers, and people who work on loading dock) pay no taxes. What could be fairer than that. While useless slugs that “Produce” nothing pay high taxes. (lawyers, realestate agents, government employees)
          The idea is to encourage production and discourage leeching of the government.
          I do agree taxes are bad. And I am proud of my voting record.
          I am also proud to have never given a cent of campaign contributions to RINOs nor the RNC.
          2008 – Barr, 2004 – Peroutka (wrote in as he was not able to get on my states ballot), 2000 – Pat Buchannan, 1996- Harry Browne, 1992 – Marrou, 1988 – Bush (lesser of 2 evils on the ballot -no third party candidate on my ballot), 1984 – Reagan

  • Sylvan Malis

    Re: Robin from Indiana,
    Robin I think you are confusing the flat tax with the sales tax plans. The true “flat tax” would be absolutely fair if it was implemented correctly. That is that everyone would pay a 10%, or whatever the rate was determined to be, tax. This way if you earned $1.00 you would pay $.10, poor and rich alike. If you made $1,000,000 you would pay $100,000. No deductions, no loop holes, just a flat percentage of what you earn. Unfortunately when Mr. Forbes championed the flat tax when he ran for President the flat tax he proposed had deductions for family and other offsets for what a person would ultimately pay in taxes. This approach would open up a future path for more and more loopholes and end up with a convoluted system like what we have today.

    The sales tax based system is not fair because each person spends their income differently. While most spending is for products the tax base pays for services and a person who doesn’t have a car and walks or rides a bicycle would not pay for services used that a person who buys a car and uses the same services that the bicycle rider uses. In this example the car buyer is paying for services that the bicycle rider uses and is not paying for. To make it fair there would have to be formulas so complicated that no one would know if the result was fair or not.

    But the real point that everyone is missing is that taxes are illegal according to the Constitution. Going beyond the fact that the 16th Amendment was never legally ratified, the Constitution never planed on having taxes. The government was supposed to be a citizens advisory group that served voluntarily without pay and therefore no money would be needed for operating the federal government. It has been through amendments that the government created the need for money to run the government. But still the states had the ability to stop the runaway government by exercising their 10th amendment rights which they haven’t done until now.

    The movement to stop the government has started and everyone should make sure that their state is drafting or has drafted resolutions and bills to declare their sovereignty under the 10th Amendment. And then make sure that their state is forcing the federal government to operated according to the Constitution.

    • Gerry

      I oppose such “flat taxes” that don’t take into account the cost of living. A sales tax is the same thing.
      The typical cost of living is about $30,000 per year on average arround this country. So if someone make exactly what they need to live and the gov’t takes 20% of that you are left $6,000 short of what you need.
      Frankly a truly fair tax would be a flat rate, and exempt the first $30,000 salary, $15 per hour wage, all over time, tips, and sales commissions on comsumer goods.

      Right now the 50% of people that make less than $30,000 pay only 1% of the “income tax”, but Flat tax proponents rarely mention FICA, and the excise taxes nor do they mention other taxes (anything you are forced to pay for, mandatory car insurance, property taxes which in someplaces are 30+% of people’s income, mandatory health insurance, water and sewage bills, sales taxes….)

      Come to think of it the only true fair tax is a tariff on imports. Don’t buy anything from overseas, hey you pay no tax and your money stays in the USA.

      • Sylvan Malis

        As I said before if you put any exceptions into play it opens the door for the next politician to add to, increase, or change the rules. Your example is basically what Mr. Forbes wanted to do. And I guess that the problem with formulas is that everyone has a different view on how they should work. NO TAXES has no loopholes and there aren’t different versions of it.

        Your last comment is interesting in that the only provision for any taxes in the Constitution is for foreign commerce. Legally the only taxes that the Federal government can collect are on income from outside the US and profits made on business conducted with foreign identities.

        By the way, the “flat tax’ with no deductions would replace all other taxes. There would be no sales tax, no state income tax, no FICA. Only one “flat tax” based on your income and that’s it. A “flat tax” would pay for all social programs, retirement, public projects, military, etc. And you would pay only one tax, the “flat tax.” That is the design of the true “flat tax.” The original plan would have paid for all these programs and still had enough left over to pay down the national debt.

        But all of this is getting away from the main point that any tax is UNCONSTITUTIONAL. So instead of trying to come up with all of these schemes to change and replace the current tax system with a new tax system, let’s try to get back to basics and just get rid of the tax altogether. NO TAXES!

        There doesn’t have to be any taxes for this country to run better than any place else in the world. Get government out of the business of being in business and let free enterprise do the job. It will be done better and at a much lower cost for all of the services that the government does today.

        The government is at best inept and inefficient. I won’t say what the worst is. The workers are lazy and could care less about how well they do their job and only care about getting their paycheck. The ones who do care about how they do their job are usually the ones who are trying to establish their own little kingdoms and are corrupt in their ethics. And then there is the one out of ten-thousand who really does care and does their job trying to help the people, knowing who pays their paycheck.

  • http://www.picc.rv/jhredca Future4u

    The ” FAIR TAX ” is the only one that makes sense if we are to have one at all on the Federal level . No tax is what the Constitution mandates , but at least the Fair Tax deals with the humongous size of Government , cuts off funds so it’ll shrink to the size actually needed to perform the very limited duties .

    The States will generate their own taxes sufficient to run it’s own operation and nothing more . The Federal Government can do very nicely on the income derived from tariffs like it did before just performing the duties spelled out in the Constitution and nothing more .

    Violations of the Constitution is what has got us into the pickle so the elimination of all prior violations should be performed and and future violations prosecuted . Watch the lobbyists seek other employment !!! AIPAC will have to register as a ” Foreign ” entity . They will have to cease control of our foreign policies .

  • William Sowles

    Sylvan, that’s all propaganda to keep Californian’s out of the PNW.

  • Jim in Texas

    Now,now,now. Folks don’t get bent out and start chewing Tums over Flat Tax vs. Fair Tax. I would suggest all read the book – Fair Tax: The Truth (Answering the critics) by Neal Boortz and Congressman John Linder with Rob Woodall. I am still reading on it, have been for some time. I’m trying to absorb as much as I can, so I can make a knowledgeable argument. Very good, in depth writing. And, they explain things better now than in the first book. Like I said read it, guys. I believe in it.

    Sylvan, there are other states besides Washington that are industry friendly. Texas is a right-to-work state, plus no state income tax.

    • Sylvan Malis

      I guess I don’t understand what part of “NO” you people don’t understand. The Constitution says NO TAXES. PERIOD. The moment we try to put in just another scheme to replace the current scheme, we are right back in trouble again.

      When will we learn the lesson. If we want a free country to live in without rulers and dictators then we have to believe in and live by the highest law of the land, the Constitution. It was drafted by some very smart individuals who were guided by the hand of God. The document has served us well for a long time and we haven’t had any major problems until now. And now we can see the results of passing laws and making government in violation of the provisions of the Constitution. THAT IS THE PROBLEM!

      We allowed it to happen by not jumping up at the first incident of government going outside the provisions of the Constitution. They said OK, we took an inch, now lets take another, and another. And here we are.

      So it isn’t “we will design a new system to replace the old,” it is get rid of the old. It is illegal and any system that just substitutes a new system for an old system will fail as badly as the old system, maybe even worse.

      Come on people, it is up to us to not let it happen and until we put our collective foot down and say, enough, they will keep on taking more inches until there in nothing left. The End!

  • JLW

    Obama is what I would call a “Kamikaze President”- He know he is going down, but he is going to ruin everything he can get his hands on, on the way down. I look at him just like the pilots in 911. Same bunch, differnt approach! Does he really think that a hand few is going to pay to keep his carter babies and the rest fed. Does he really think that we are going to keep working to support the lazy slim that he supports. Not Me!

  • Norm

    The total economic impact of the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan is estimated at $1.6 trillion by 2009.
    The estimate is $1.3 trillion in war costs by the end of 2008 for Iraq, and the remainder for Afghanistan.
    The total war costs could grow to $3.5 trillion by 2017.
    The average cost of both wars for a family of four would be $20,900 from 2002 to 2008. The cost for a family of four would go up to $46,400 from 2002 to 2017, the committee said.
    So let’s cut taxes??
    We saw how that worked over the last 8 years.

  • Richard Lander

    After suffering several bouts of being assaulted by the fools the two political parties have offered up as candidates, I’m sick at heart and totally disgusted. Every time I turn around there are higher prices and more fees. When I thought about going into business for myself I started investigating all the b.s. paperwork the various governments would demand, not to mention the cost and complexity of incorporating. Unbelievable! The tax codes cannot be understood by anybody! No wonder so many companies are bailing out. I certainly salute the ones that have chose to stick it out, at least for the time being. Wake up people! Our government is growing bigger and more corrupt by the day! Since I’m disabled I have plenty of time to watch and read current events. I’m tottally convinced the government is out of control, ignoring constitutional laws and limitations. If my health allows me, and I can survive long enough, I want everybody with a brain to rise up and DEMAND that all government operations in violation of that constitution cease immediately, and return our currency to the gold standard. Now you’re probably thinking that this could not possibly happen without blood being shed somewhere, and you’d be absolutely right. Look at how screwed up our system of justice is. The last thing it delivers is justice, you get what you pay the shysters. I think it’s time to return to the biblical standard of an eye for an eye. The citizens of this country need to toughen up fast. The longer you wait, the more severe the correction will be, monetarily, legally, whatever. Look at the illegal immigrant problem; they have destroyed the basis of the middle class, taken away the majority of the trade jobs, and filled the prisons because the important cultural demands of being an HONEST, LAW ABIDING CITIZEN does not exist to the same degree that the majority of natural born citizens are taught to follow AND value. The laws of our country have been trashed by these people and they need to be excized from this country IMMEDIATELY. Make them return to their country of origin with the understanding that if they want the benefits of living as Americans do, THEY MUST BRING DOWN THEIR CORRUPT GOVERNMENT AND ADOPT A CONSTITUTION SIMILAR TO OURS, HOWEVER IT TAKES TO DO IT. The constituion of our country is an incredible document, and contrary to some socialist b.s. that is being taught to our children, WAS CONCEIVED AND WRITTEN BY GOD-FEARING MEN. Remember the American Revolution; many of them shed their blood to accomplish this momentous task; will you stand up when the time comes? We are very close to another revolution. Why are firearms and amunition so scarce now? It is because American citizens recognize evil when they see it, and are preparing to do battle. I think it will occur the morning they wake up and find their currency worthless.
    You illegals probably will have to shed blood to accomplish a constitutional republic, we sure as hell had to! But remember this-it demands a morally upright citizenery to function correctly. As soon as you allow graft and corruption to compromise your government, you’re finished. Just about like where America is. Until you stand up and are willing to fight for what is right, nothing will improve. Demand the finest candidates, write your elected officials, use the ballot boxes, and if we are ignored, the constitution demands we regain control by whatever method is necessary, period.

    • Sylvan Malis

      No long winded comment this time Norm. I probably agree with most everything you have said. I just want to point out that there is a party that is different than the two old parties, the ones you (and a lot of other people) are sick of.

      The Constitution Party has based the whole platform on repealing all laws and departments of government that are not in line with the Constitution. They believe that there should be no new laws that are not in keeping with the Constitution.

      Ron Paul, the republican candidate, gave his support to the Constitution Party candidate Chuck Baldwin in this last election. That should give you an idea of how much credibility the Constitution Party has.

      So next time you go vote, especially in the local elections, please look carefully at the candidates from the Constitution Party. It all begins with the local elections.

  • Nancy

    I have a suggestion….how about no representation without taxation? Letting people who don’t pay any taxes vote on the people and policies that control taxes and how they are spent is like having the fox guard the hen house and install the security system. That’s how we got Obama, he said plain and simple during his campaign that he thought a redistribution of wealth was right. I don’t, I’ve worked hard and sacrificed to accumulate what I have, heavens knows I’ve paid my share of taxes for over 40 years. What is equitable about letting someone who does not and never has paid taxes decide who is going to make decisions regarding how the money that I’ve paid in is to be spent? These leaches on society want more, they have no pride, they don’t care that someone else had to work to pay for what is being given to them.

  • antoniobacalhau

    The companies , shoulnd’t be permited to terminate production and jobs in U,S, to go to other countries, just beacuse the labor cost is next to nothing, and then have the courage to bring the product back to U.S, A. for the peopole that lost theyrs jobs, to buy theyrs won previous bosses merchandise; this is insane.
    I believe that everyone should pay taxes ,little or a lot,no escape.
    Help should be available for the needy, only those that deserve help,there is work for all.
    I have writen my opinion, about this administration, one hour before they toock pocession, but i hope that i am wrong, and i pray that they become successfull.
    I would love to see AMERICA give the example ,and be respected by the all World again
    One thing i believe, if we abandon God, we will be abandoned , without notecing.
    May the Lord protect United States of America, and guide us all ,i love America…

  • Robert

    At some point, we need to look at when this migration of American business overseas began, and that point of demarcation was NAFTA. Free trade sounds great and for a fact I also was for it. But as Ross Perot told us it is poison to our country and the American worker. He said that giant sucking sound will be all our jobs going to Mexico and now the even more giant sucking sound comes from China.
    Protect the American worker from the Chinese slave labor worker with tarrifs and the factories will return. There is no city damaged more than Galesburg, Illinois by NAFTA but all across the midwest and the country so many factories closed up and moved south,(now across the ocean) that it is difficult to calculate. How much revenue was lost by this would be an interesting study to read but suffice to say that Perot was exactly right though both parties assailed him for his view and expert opinion.

  • Norm

    China is our worse enemy.
    It is a communist country. It has a population that’s about 4 times that of the US, and a standing army that’s more than twice as large as ours. It has Nukes and its Universities produce about 4 times the engineers that we do. Just to help them out, we have shipped them thousands of our production jobs, given them access to our engineering and computer science expertese, and become dependent on their influx of goods and money. Now they’re getting into the auto and aircraft businnesses, and launching satelites.
    How did this happen?
    Greedy bean counters and corporate execs who put their financial interests ahead of all else are to blame, along with a government that was more concerened with fighting the wrong enemy. Instead of spending money on R&D to develop new and better American goods, many CEO’s found it much cheaper to fire decently but modestly paid employees in favor of their cheaper Chinese counterparts.
    Laid-off workers don’t pay taxes – they use tax money to survive. We americans are in one boat. If it sinks, we all go down together.
    Our brillient corporate leaders either don’t get it or don’t care. With power should come responsibility and honor.
    Their’s no honor among thieves.

  • Mike Austin,TX

    I have owned businesses in both the US and China. The US is more Communist in matters of business than I would have ever believed. The Federal and State Gov’t do very little to assist, but constantly get in the way and increase fees and taxes every year. Now I only have a business in China.

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