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Are You Ready To Barter?

June 4, 2012 by  

Are You Ready To Barter?
In The Hunger Games, Katniss Everdeen hunts and gathers beyond the walls of District 12 in order to feed her family. She trades some of what she acquires on the black market.

With Greece in a perpetual economic collapse over the past month, the serious concern and timing of our own economic failure has come into play.

When you think about it, economies could very well be like dominoes. Once you push one over, the rest will subsequently fall. With one Western country falling, more will be on the way. It’s only a matter of time until we see something hit us here in the United States.

When the dollar begins to drop, what will we do? I know that you probably have storage of your own already and you are prepared for at least a short amount of time, but what happens when that runs out?

Sure, you can hunt for food and you can filter your own water. But at some point, we will need to build back the communities that we once had and function together. The economy will grow again, but in a different way: by bartering.

When you think about bartering, you think about the olden days: walking into a general store with some sort of good or service and coming out with a product or going to a neighbor’s rickety wood house on the prairie and negotiating your ability to fix a roof for a good meal.

These situations aren’t that far-fetched even now. Did you know that a town in Greece has been functioning off of a barter system now for a few months? And that it’s been successful?

The town of Volos stopped operating on the crappy economy that was happening around it in Greece and began to function on its own. More than 800 businesses and the townspeople work on a barter system. They have monetized their economies by creating what they call the TEM.

The TEM is a currency that was basically created to make negotiating easy; it’s not really money. For example, one person will offer a chicken worth 2 TEM for yard work also worth 2 TEM. It’s nearly exactly what happened hundreds of years ago, and it’s happening now.

There are even luxuries in this barter system. Need to take yoga classes? They are offered in this system. And the magic of it all, the town of Volos is fully functional in its own economic system.

We currently use bartering systems and don’t realize it. Think about it, have you ever used Craigslist or an online system like it?

Craigslist has become the new town center, uniting thousands of people in a region in order to barter for services and goods. It has replaced the markets of old with the same type of trading, just on the Internet.

Don’t get me wrong, I’m certainly not saying we will have computers, electricity or the Internet to play with in certain scenarios. But if we did, you could barter for almost everything you would need right there, in your own home.

Are you ready to barter and bargain for what you need to survive? These are skills that you may not think to acquire and work on, or even teach your children about, but they may be necessary to survive.

One of the ways that you can teach your children about the bartering system and even survival in a collapsed economy is by using popular culture. If you had a chance to see the movie The Hunger Games, the film entails a desolate future wherein communities must work together to survive with basics such as food.

The movie and book series portray a future where there are tradesmen and markets and a limited supply of food. The people in the film are forced to barter, just like the olden days, in order to survive. This could be a great opportunity for you to start the conversation about a barter economy with your kids. Don’t get me wrong here either, I certainly am no fan of using Hollywood to teach children. But if it opens the window to their mind and they can picture the reality of it, you may have a great teachable moment.

It is my goal for you to be as prepared as possible in case the worst were to occur. I know that if you’re already reading this, you’re probably in better shape than most. But we can always prepare more and be better ready for the oncoming storm.

I wrote a report that goes into more depth about how to trade and barter in last month’s Lamp Lighter Report. I encourage you to access and read it if you have a chance. Our parents weren’t kidding when they told us to remember that knowledge is power.

Be smarter than they think you are,

–Tim Young
Managing Editor, Absolute Rights

Tim Young

is the Managing Editor at Absolute Rights and has been featured on Fox News, Forbes, and The London Daily Telegraph. You can see Tim's latest work by clicking here.

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  • Deerinwater

    Read the 3 novels before watching the movie. The movie is not developed well. A 2 hour time does not permit much in the way of development, offering the viewer a lackluster viewing experience.

    The author, ” Suzanne Collins” writing style is much in the fashion of Ayn Rand, ~ pages and pages of “internal dialog” as she assimilates her ‘thinking process” attempting to justify and validate her own thoughts and actions.

    The overall story line was developed well and didn’t swing so far into science fiction that it takes a quantum leap of faith to offer a good visual image. The reader is not transported off of Mother Earth but in fact just the opposite, there is a bonding to Mother Earth and the stark realities Human Kind has always been confronted with, “Supply & Demand”.

    Before I read these novels, I asked my young (of 24) neighbor (college grad) if they were “political” , she said “NO” not really.

    After reading all 3 novels, (at 64) I’d have to say ~ Politics is the central theme of these novels. I guess everyone “sees” what they want to see.

    My guess , there will be two more movies made from these novels.

    • GALT

      Where is DavidH when you need him?

      WARNING, WARNING………The following post is one of a series, that will continue until a resolution occurs, my apologies to other poster’s on this site, and to Mr. Livingston, our host. Please feel free to skip over what is written here, as it may or may not be related to the topic under discussion………

      Episode 2, the MIND of David H. in action, which might suggest that it might be exciting…..but don’t get your hopes up….it is not.

      FURTHER WARNING: Today’s episode will be featuring several guest stars, since several different people inserted themselves into Friday’s discussion……..also to David, while I did say I would see you on Monday, I went back and also responded to your response… an effort to continue to attempt to engage in a logically reasoned intelligent discussion and/or argument……which you probably believe you have mastered, but for which I can see no evidence to support……..because very little of that actually occurs here. Now I realise that this statement is somewhat provacative and that you will probably react by trying to claim that I am disparaging you…..but since you say that almost everytime you respond, I can only repeat that what is actually taking place is EXPOSURE, and it has a purpose………

      BTW you have made a claim that you and Mr. Livingston share the same goals, along with other poster’s here and you were asked to identify both the goals you think you share, and these “others”…a question which you did not answer…..and as previously noted, when you do that, I will repeat the question and when you are asked to acknowledge something, if you do not, that to, will be repeated. ( Eventually this will grow to a very long list, because while there is NO evidence to support that you ARE capable of…..

      ” a logically reasoned intelligent discussion and/or argument”
      there is plenty of evidence that demonstrates you are NOT capable.)

      Robert Smith says:
      June 1, 2012 at 7:37 am
      Posted: “that your capital gain taxes are not really equitable when your government seeks to steal such a great percentage for these demporary capital gains. ”
      Capital gains is a PAPER profit, not money made from producing a product, adding value to it through those efforts, and selling it.

      DaveH says:
      June 1, 2012 at 8:43 am
      You are sorely deluded, Robert. Without Capital Investments many companies who couldn’t otherwise borrow the money would have to go without. Facebook may have been one of them. Nevertheless, that money is used by companies to fund purchases of Capital Goods (machinery, plants, etc.) that are used to more efficiently produce their products. As companies produce more products with those efficient plants and machines their more highly skilled workers not only make bigger salaries than they otherwise would have, but the consumers also benefit by cheaper and more abundant goods and services.
      Capital investment drives good economies.
      If you want to know what the opposite does for economies, read this:

      NOW DAVID……..your response to Robert, whose response was to a point by Gilly which is quoted, is completely irrevelant………and it begins with a “disparagement” aka ( ad hominum logical fallacy ).

      If you were going to correct Robert in a relevant way, you could have pointed out that the profits were real, since his response was to Gilly’s “opinion” regarding the excessive tax rate paid on them.

      First, because you don’t pay the tax, unless you take the gain, which means the profit part is REAL……as the actual excessive tax rate of 15% ( less devaluation for inflation ).
      Robert had nothing to say about “capital investements” he said:

      “not money made from producing a product, adding value to it through those efforts, and selling it.”

      Which YOU decided to ‘interpret’ as something else, and having done so, throw the “deluded” insult in……simply because for you, this is a force of habit and essentially makes up the majority of your responses…..along with the accompaning link. ( actually, since you only called him deluded, you are to be complimented for your restraint )

      What Robert actually said seems to be what the classical defintion of capitalism is all about, “the private ownership of the mean of production”………by adding value, etc. …..and the sentence structure is a bit muddled………but you do not have enough information to respond in the manner you do………

      We know that capital gains are “real profits”, but whether they come from any sort of “productive effort” is unknown, which makes the phrase “value added” an interesting qualifier……are all profits realised from capital investment the result of “value added production”? The “capital gains” restriction here, simply tells us that “capital” was invested in something which was held for a specific period of time and then sold, resulting in a profit, which resulted in a tax.

      Robert seems to be suggesting that “capital gains” do not require any knowledge of where the profits come from, and it is certainly true that for people who just make investents seeking profit, whether not anything is produced and/or contains added value is irrelevant……….( several intervening comments appear and then we get…….)

      Robert Smith says:
      June 2, 2012 at 4:39 pm
      The capitol gains I’m talking about are those from the instruments used to extract money from the middle class.
      Like I said, I have no problem with someone who has a product and adds value to the economy. ( and )
      Robert Smith says:
      June 2, 2012 at 4:43 pm
      From Dr.: “why is it that nobody ever talks about paper losses, just paper profit?”
      Because when an insurance company invests they make money. If they lose they simply charge higher premieums.
      When energy and food is speculated on those guys don’t lose, they simply raise prices.
      They are doing nothing but gambling and when the lose it comes out of the pockets of the middle class.

      SO DAVID, IT WOULD SEEM CLEAR THAT Robert has accepted the classical definition of capitalism as “the private ownership of the means of production” but that he has a “problem” with “capital gains or profits” which to him do not seem to conform to or represent “added value”…..and he cites two examples, insurance companies and people who speculate on food and energy……now I realise that he did this by stating a “soundbite opinion” in response to Gilly’s characterization of the “capital gains tax” as excessive…..and MIGHT have been better served by stating his “problem” at the outset along with those examples……and even BETTER if he had framed it all as a question…..which is in fact what it is……….but YOU NOW HAVE MORE INFORMATION.

      DaveH says:
      June 3, 2012 at 10:22 am
      So Robert,
      The Liberal movie stars, producers, sports stars, Oprah, etc. also “extracted” their wealth from the middle class. Yet I’ve never seen you denigrate them. Why is that?
      The middle class willingly gave their money to all of those people including the Facebook Owners because they provided a service that the consumers thought was worth trading their earned money for. In the process, many people in that middle class found work with those “extractors”. Contrast that with the Health Care Insurance Mandate, or the taxpayer money which is taken from unwilling people to be used on various Progressive Pet Projects, etc. etc. etc. There is the Real Extraction. How do you Jealous Controlling Progressive people live with yourselves?

      AFTER SIXTEEN HOURS THAT WAS YOUR RESPONSE…….SO DAVIDH, what part of this little diatribe would you say is “evidence that you are capable of, or even interested in “intelligent, logically reasoned argument or debate”? Especially since Robert does not appear to be a “socialist or communist” but simply had a “problem” with “profits” that for him do NOT seem to represent “added value”, for which he cited examples, one of being “insurance companies”?

      You did not see “his problem” or chose not to address it and Robert became a ” Jealous Controlling Progressive ” because of the “Health Care Insurance Mandate” even after he cited “insurance companies” as an example of his “problem”, and the Health Care BIll, which contained the MANDATE ( but no means to enforce it )and was exactly what these “insurance companies” lobbied for.

      BTW this is NOT an isolated occurance, this the MIND of DAVIDH in action… do this ALL THE TIME……and it does at least explain why everything I write here is for YOU……”incomprehensible, double speak, lies and propaganda, which should not be read”.

      Now it is not that you have not seen Robert’s concern before, for I have stated it more directly, at a more basic level and as a question:

      “If capitalism is the private ownership of the means of production does this not imply or require that something actually be produced?” To clarify this, I cited two examples of what I believe do not qualify as “productive activity”……banking and usuery. You apparently are not capable seeing questions, since you never answer them……you hear what you want to hear, and then respond to what you imagine you have heard…….things are true for you only when it is YOU that is saying them…..and strangely these truths only seem to be true, in the moment you do say them, since you have been shown to have “completely contradicted yourself”, within hours, by stating the exact “opposite”……

      Of course, in an environment ruled by “sound bite opinions” seeking “soundbite solutions” constructed by “soundbite intellects” this strategy can be successful, in the us vs them world, where the opposition has the same level of understanding: but it does not represent anything that would constitute an example of “logically reasoned intellect.”

      BTW since it now appears that you DID respond to my last entry for Friday’s “demonstration”…….of your imagined intellectual abilities, we can look at even more evidence, of your rather unique ability to comprehend what you actually read. The detailed summary of the ‘Lords of Finance” which was presented to you, because you claimed the author was a “political economist”and the “history” he wrote about was described by me as “presenting a few problems” for those who believe a return to Gold Standard is the “solution” for what exists now…….inspired you to respond with:

      DaveH says:
      June 1, 2012 at 6:57 pm
      Galt says it all with this little piece of logic (or lack thereof):
      “The problem with the GOLD STANDARD and/or the concept of sound money is that inflation can NOT be prevented…….if one has a banking system which permits “fractional reserves”, it can not be avoided. To attempt to do so poses the problem of “liquidity” and the “growth required” comes to a screeching halt”.

      Two problems with that illogical statement:
      1) The “fractional reserve” system is an entity apart from the Gold Standard. It would be like saying that the current day mostly Socialistic System, that we labor under, is proof that Capitalism doesn’t work. Uh, wait a minute — Liberals do say that.
      But Maybe Fractional Banking, when not taken to extreme could work, but the banks would need to be honest

      THE MIND OF DAVID H once again goes into high gear…….and my response on Friday, actually saturday…..noted that, the list was again a history of what took place…….under the GOLD STANDARD.

      For David, the GOLD STANDARD is the GOLD STANDARD, PERIOD. It would seem that the ‘sacred nature of this standard’ and it’s power, is mysteriously “unconnected to anything tangible”, like money, or banks, or anything that banks do, or anything that people do with the money, or the banks, because IT IS AN ENTITY APART?

      Interestingly, and for some strange reason…..he offers the possibility that “fractional reserve requirements” might work for banks, if those banks were “honest”…….which is very profound, because if people were, in fact……..”honest”…..and which I have to admit, in such a circumstance….. a lot of problems would not be problems any more…….PROBLEM SOLVED!!!!!!!

      So after pointing out this attempted fallacy to both change the “argument” and isolate one of “problems”…..I also pointed out that one of the things I hadn’t included in the list was that, the money in circulation at the time, was far in excess of the amount of gold that was supposedly backing it, and at this time…….the currency had a fixed value as required by the Constitution. ( see coinage Act of 1900 ) along with a gold/silver ratio of, if memory serves, 30 to 1.

      2) Galt is back to the “growth required” paradigm which Liberals love to fallaciously use to denigrate Capitalism.

      WHAT A MIND DAVID………of course, the “conventional wisdom” at present, the problem we face…….because of the CRASH, is that the ECONOMY has “slowed down”…….which sounds suspiciously like “lack of growth”…….but I certainly never tried to use this to denigrate capitalism………the infinite growth myth and the fact that it requires infinite resources is used for the express purpose of exposing ECONOMICS as a FRAUD because it has no empirical connection to physical universe we inhabit. ( see Economics Unmasked, a short book requiring reading comprehension skills )

      DaveH says:
      June 3, 2012 at 10:49 am
      I encourage the reader to read these Free Books, all by Murray Rothbard, a non-political Austrian Economist who I believe to be the greatest thinker of our time. Read this one first. It’s a relatively easy read (for Murray) and it will make it easier to understand what he’s talking about in the other books:
      Then read “A History of Money and Banking in the United States”, which describes how bankers have taken advantage of citizens since the beginnings of this country, using the Power of Government to protect them from justice.
      Then read “America’s Great Depression”.
      Both books which I linked to in earlier comments. Just do a find on “mises” to locate them.
      And again, thank you Mises Institute for making these and many other enlightening books available Free to readers.
      Folks, I don’t expect you to take my word for anything, and especially don’t take the words of lying misleading unprincipled Progressives whose main goal is to relieve you of your money so they can better feather their own nests.

      THE MIND OF DAVIDH delivers the imagined “coupe de grace”, his final word on the subject……..all those words posted, and he still has no idea what the subject actually is………hasn’t answered a single question……..and produces nothing except ( ad hominum attacks ) and logical fallacies masquerading as argument.

      The final irony of this last bit is:

      “If capitalism is the private ownership of the means of production does this not imply or require that something actually be produced?” To clarify this, I cited two examples of what I believe do not qualify as “productive activity”……banking and usuery. You apparently are not capable seeing questions, since you never answer them……you hear what you want to hear, and then respond to what you imagine you have heard.”


      Then read “A History of Money and Banking in the United States”, which describes how bankers have taken advantage of citizens since the beginnings of this country, using the Power of Government to protect them from justice.
      Then read “America’s Great Depression”.

      WHERE THINGS ARE ONLY TRUE WHEN DAVIDH SAYS THAT THEY ARE. ( Surrender Dorothy, you are NOT in Kansas, anymore! )

      • Wapitiman

        I am not about to waste my time reading an endless diatribe !

      • Mike Austin

        If you cant make your point in a small paragraph, write and publish a book. Enough with the excess.

      • http://AOL Tom

        I agree. I have never been to a site that garbled like that. I will recommend a premier site. It is “www.survivalist” it is great for those interested in preping for when the SHTF”

      • Joe H

        Worthless babble that I hope I don’t have to keep skipping over, again and again!! It stands to reason if DaveH was responding to Robert then Galt was an interloper in this exchange! It is up to Robert to respond!

  • darren

    thanks to the greedy politicians who ran our country into the ground we now have to suffer and they will continue doing the same thing only under a new boss.

    • Dark_Archer

      Darren, do not put all the blame on the politicians …after all ,us stupid voters elect them

      • Maryland Freestater

        Only a partially true statement – we can only elect so many people at a time due to districting. EG – while I wouldn’t vote for Nancy Pelosi, her constituents keep voting her back and she wreaks havoc all over the country just like Schumer or Reid. In essence, her own constituents don’t think she is doing any wrong, or is indeed providing services and goodies they benefit from, albeit at the expense of other US citizens.

        Damn shame we don’t have any vote with respect to this – imagine if Marylanders could vote Pelosi or Schumer OUT of office! Of course, locals will always keep voting stupidly if the candidate keeps offering bread and circuses, or more likely, ’40s and Doritos…

      • GALT

        Can I ask a question?

        It is not particularly hard in my opinion although it might require a bit of thought.

        As citizens of the united States of America, which began with the “unanimous Declaration
        of Independence of the thirteen united States, The Articles of Confederation, and the Constitution, thereof…with a Bill of RIGHTS…….

        If someone chooses not to VOTE, what part of the Constitution no longer applies to them or the government and which of the Rights enumerated have they “given up”?

        If you have ANY difficulty at all with comprehending this question, please feel free to ask a question so it can be clarified for you.

        I, Galt….respectfully await your responses or inquiries.

        Citizen at LARGE!!!!!!

      • EyesWideOPEN

        And we vote them in because of the lies which corresponds to our ideals..That does not make us stupid it makes the politicians stupid for thinking they have to lie to us in order to get what they want, then when they get it their told by even more vile and pathetic political monsters to do as THEY say else become a political non-entity. You’ve got the bad guy all wrong.. It isn’t us, it’s the career politicians who have gotten away with their criminal activities long enough to think their above prosecution. They’re the ones who needs eradicated and replaced with new meat who has at the time all our interests at heart and before they become accustomed to their new life style, we need to put into their minds that their fate will be exactly like the one’s they replaced if they do not keep their oath of office and their dedication of the Constitution, bill of rights and each and every voter. To date we as a people have been too lax, depending upon a few to continue keeping us happy when in truth, we need to insist they do the best for this Country else find another profession.

      • Alan

        @ Galt – Can I answer your question?

        As citizens of the united States of America, which began with the “unanimous Declaration of Independence of the thirteen united States, The Articles of Confederation, and the Constitution, thereof…with a Bill of RIGHTS…….

        If someone chooses not to VOTE, what part of the Constitution no longer applies to them or the government and which of the Rights enumerated have they “given up”?

        You know, I never framed the question like this and adds a bit of interesting twist on our rights as protected by the framers. If one chooses not to vote, do they give up any protected rights of the Constitution? I always simply looked at it as, if I don’t vote then I have to live with the idiot someone else put into office. I’ll have to ponder this question and provide a better answer later at some time… maybe?

  • wt

    I have been bartering for years. It saves money and I can circumvent corporate America, which is a good thing. I traded a van for construction work. Farmer’s markets have the freshest food too.

    • Joe H

      My neighbor and I do this all the time. I supply him with welding and he does all the mechanic work on my vehicles. We also help each other on big jobs we have to do in our yards, like cut down a tree, if he has a big job he needs help on doing mechanic work, I help him. If I have a big welding job that I need an extra hand on, he helps me. As long as it doesn’t interfere with each of our chosen jobs, it works well. we have also schedualed to be able to help each other. He is more like family to me than a friend.

  • wt

    Depending on corporate America has gotten us in this mess. Big oil, big pharmaceuticals, red slime, salmonella, dangerous chemicals,…..

    Big business means do anything for profits, even dangerous things…hink oil spill, salmonella, high speed cars, dangerous roads, polluted air, sugar in everything.

  • JDN

    Yes fine and well but what happens to uncle Sam ? Will he go house to house to collect taxes like the days of old too ? Take what you have and maybe your life since you are bartering . The tax man never goes away .

    • Kandi

      The article speaks of community. Perhaps, as a community, we would see that the tax man, ‘hits his head,” on the way to our place. This is our life and our land, it is time to be proactive in it. I do not advocate violence, but self preservation. The 535 have taken more than what they have earned, when they have run us into the ground, it will be up to us to reclaim our civilization.

      • 45caliber


        Tax collectors were always hated and were forced to defend themselves frequently. They tended to take what the government wanted – and paid themselves by taking everything else as well which the government allowed. That was one reason that Robin Hood was so liked – he robbed and killed tax collectors. (Even if the story is only a story, it showed what people thought of tax collectors.) I heard once that was how the James boys, after the Civil War, got their start in crime – they robbed a tax collector.

    • Steve E

      Get you community militia to stop the taxman from doing business in your community.

    • 45caliber


      Naw, they will simply try to make it illegal to barter. That way they can control what you make and what you own. And to keep you “honest” they will teach your children to report you at school for “breaking the law”.

  • Michael Neibel

    The notion that corporations seek profits by killing people is Marxist nonsense. The notion that corporations are evil or scary because they are ‘big’ is more nonsense. Without profits there is no such thing as prosperity. I haven’t seen the movie or read the books but if they concretize the importance of a rational self interest they will be worth it.

    • slapjack

      Thank you for bringing this to light. The Obummbo drones are trying to destroy this great nation with this mantra that Profit is a dirty word. God please make this big mistake go away in November.

      • Chester

        Will agree that profit isn’t a dirty word by itself, but when you add the clause “at any cost” to that, you have a totally different picture. The problem currently is that this is the idea behind so many of the big banks and other corporations. Profit comes first, then worry about who you might have put out of work or out of a home because you wanted the company they worked for, but not the people working there, or you wanted a piece of land to build a new parking lot for your big box store, or your factory. When profit becomes the sole motivator, everything else is lost in the shuffle. That is why we now have banks and businesses that are “too big to let fail.” It isn’t that they are too big to fail, because anything can and will eventually fail, but if we let these places fail, we hurt so many other people and businesses that it isn’t worth the cost.

    • GALT

      Really? Now I would think that “prosperity” was having enough of what you need and the time to share and enjoy what you have with others? This COULD just be ME, though?

      • GALT

        P.S. the ‘sharing’ part is of course optional…..the enjoy part is key, and should not be RELIANT on the ENVY of others………but again, this is probably just me to?

  • Rick H.

    For excellent examples of communities working together for survival, we need only look to the Native American indians life style, before the arrival of the Europeans.
    Not to say that the land would support the population as it is today.

    • 45caliber


      Yes, they certainly worked together. Constant warfare, murder, theft, etc. The thief was considered the best person in a village among most tribes and the murderer was second best. Rape was common too. Good life style.

      • Dark_Archer

        your description of Native American life sounds not much different from our ”civilised society ” of today where rape ,theft murder and warfare are still prevalent in all aspects so you tell me who was more ” civilised” ancient man who fought mostly hand to hand mano a mano or modern man who can kill his opponent with out ever meeting him

      • Buster the Anatolian

        45 you are being disengenious at best. The warfare before the white man came was as much about honor (showing bravery) as it was about killing. Theft, rape, murder, etc. within the tribe was more frowned on by them than it is by society today. That hero you spoke of was a hero not because he stole from from a member of the tribe/village but rather because he stole from the enemy.

      • 45caliber


        As a quarter Indian, I think I have more credibility than you do on this. The various Indian tribes were like I said BEFORE the white man ever showed up. That was one of the reasons the white man was able to wipe out the Indian – they could turn enemies against each other instead of banding together to fight the white man. The Eastern Indians had already almost wiped out the wild game there and had to turn to farming to live. The only reason there were any buffalo on the prairie was because it was too far between water holes for the Indians to walk. Once the horse was introduced, the buffalo was history. It was the white man (research “Buffalo Jones”) who saved what buffalo we have today.

        Further, most Indian lore today actually comes from the Boy Scouts. When the Boy Scouts were formed they were meant to be a part of the military (English, by the way). They were to be used to scout on enemy locations and report to the British about it. When the US decided to set up a Boy Scout group here about 1917, they didn’t want them associated with the military, so they decided to emphasis the Indians. They asked many of the old Indians on the reservations if they would mind teaching their crafts, etc. to the Boy Scouts. The Indians agreed since their own kids weren’t interested in learning.

        About 1960 or so the Indians decided to reclaim their heritage – but none of the Indians knew it. So they had the Boy Scouts teach them. The problem was that they learned the Boy Scout ways – which were NOT the original Indian ways. Clean up after yourself? Boy Scouts. Talking feather? Boy Scouts. Concern for the environment? Boy Scouts. But the Indians today claim they were all Indian lore originally.

        For instance, the Indian’s love of nature and their care for it. All a myth. Indians were known to drive a thousand head of buffalo off a cliff for one meal. Their villages moved about a lot due to bad sanitation. (They got tired of the stink.) Etc.

        Theft and murder were discouraged and a crime – in their OWN tribe only. Geronomo for instance was a criminal among his own people for that reason and actually ran mostly with Mexican outlaws rather than Indians. He was never a chief of the Apache. But if you raided another tribe it was not only okay but to be commended. Actually, though, scalping was mostly a French invention taught to the Indians. The French would pay Indians for English scalps in an effort to get the Indians to attack the American colonies.

        If you wish to study history, go ahead. But don’t look at modern books. All of it has been “corrected” by PC people.

      • 45caliber


        I’ve always felt our world became a worse place when mano/mano went away with the invention of ways for a weakling or an idiot to kill from a distance. Now the weaklings want to run things by enslaving those who aren’t weak.

      • GALT

        First of all, .45 caliber person, the Indian is on the nickel, NOT the QUARTER, and if that don’t tickle your funny bone, then my 16th claim to native american fame. probably won’t either. ( life is tough when you can’t measure up to your own token coinage )

        You have two stories to pick from…..Jamestown, the East India Co. experiment, and Plymouth…….at Plymouth those “pathetic” pilgrims fleeing from “religious persecution”…..after the whole Cromwell bit fizzled, were kept alive by those pesky natives……and within short order, there wasn’t a single native alive within 300 miles.
        Biological warfare where lack of immunity exists, is a BITCH……. even if you DIDN’T mean it! see Columbus, see Cortez, see the entire conquest and manifest destiny of the America’s…….

        People is people, but there WERE some differences……and maybe there would be more if it “really takes a village” didn’t exclude anybody…….so despite Hillary’s rather pathetic appeal she forgot to acknowledge that “it also takes a village to create a village idiot.”

        Up until recently, in the south, ( although this still may be true in some places ) you could be the the most worthless white person in the area, but you were still better than every black person……..

        ” The fault dear Brutus is not in our stars, but in ourselves. “

      • Buster the Anatolian

        Boy 45 talk about revisionest history. I don’t know whether to laugh at you for your ignorance or curse you for spreading such inaccurate information. I am part Indian as well and my best friend outside of family is a full blood American Indian.

      • Joe H

        Gotta call you on the buffalo. white man was the down fall of the bison,not the native American. The government knew if they wiped out the bison, they could defeat the western native American a lot easier as they took almost their whole being from them. There were government paid hunters that killed them by the thousands leaving over half a kill just to keep the native Americans from having them. The “red man” revered the bison and would never kill them just for sport only to leave half a carcass lying on the ground. they used 98% of every bison they killed!

  • Nancy in Nebraska

    The best thing that you can do is to stock up now and try to save up the things that you are going to need. The situation in Greece has not yet devolved into complete chaos. When the total collapse appears, bartering may not be a viable solution. Meeting with others to trade could threaten your life. If they discover that you have “things” you could become a target of murdering thieves. I think barter would be great in a recessional period where society is still pretty much intact. But if the food runs out you’d be better off making do with what you have. Nothing and no one will be safe. Plan ahead. You’ve got nothing to lose and everything to gain.

  • Stan H.

    Have you heard of a Resource Based Economy? The Zeitgeist Movement. People can help each other because they want to help each other.

    • GALT

      There is a book called Natural Capitalism: been around for awhile now…….don’t tell David H.

  • Chester

    Stan, a “Resource Based Economy” demands resources sufficient to support all involved. If we went to such a thing now, about two thirds the population would starve to death, not due to a lack of food in the country, but because there would be no way for them to get to it, or have anything to exchange for it once they found it. We have a large number of natural resources, but fewer and fewer people who know how to use them.

    • 45caliber


      Some years ago, I heard an “environmental” group insisting that all structures, businesses, homes, etc. be bulldozed. Then they would “issue” each person in the US 2 acres, a set of hand tools, and either a cow, a horse, or a donkey. You would go to your land (walking since all equipment would be destroyed too, including the bull dozers) and build a house on what you found on your land. You would then grow all the food you would need on your land too and dig your own well for water. Each community would major in some special hand industry. For instance, (their example) one community would grow cattle. The next would slaughter them. The third would cure the skins to leather and the fourth would make shoes. Each group would trade their produce to get the things they needed from the other groups – if they couldn’t make it themselves.

      I told the person telling me about it I would be HAPPY to do just that – as long as he took his 2 acres in Death Valley, moved there without outside help, and lived there for a minimum of one year without outside aid. For some reason, he wouldn’t agree to prove to me that this was viable. He planned to have his two acres somewhere on a stream bank with land good enough to grow anything. Death Valley would go to me (and others he wasn’t happy with).

      • Cliffystones

        Maybe he thought that he was “more equal” than you? This reminds me of the “fair share” dolts who refuse to define what a fair share is.

  • uvuvuv

    when we degenerate into a card table economy, like russia did with glasnost (i think), you will find that your kitchen utensils and lamps won’t cut it. you need attractive items and you can peruse ebay for these, or thrift sales, etc. for example, i have a k-line hiawatha steam locomotive with tender new in the box, and 1/16 scale tractors, and lots of other stuff i really like having around. for starters i recommend corgi buses. for some reason these have high interest.

  • uvuvuv

    rick, i read this book about the history of the north american indians, and yes the tribes did share hunting grounds with no conflict, unless conditions tightened up the numbers of game. then they went on the warpath. the conditions included what? why, rising temperatures over many decades that caused drier conditions. once the temperatures trended down the food was more abundant. i think if the indians did a lot less driving their climate would have been more stable. good thing we’re so smart now.

    • 45caliber


      Not only the Indians! The cave men, back about 10,000 years ago or more, let a lot of Freon loose in the air! The hole in the ozone layer was enormous! And CO2 and heat was far more prevalent too – why, the average was as much as 15 degrees hotter! (That’s why the world ended, you know. It went up more than the 1/2 degree average the libs keep ranting about.)

      • Dark_Archer

        the freon that was let loose in the air by the cave man was actually the cave woman’s fault, every time they moved they left the refrigerators behind because they were so big and heavy back then and the freon escaped from the unattended refrigerators and that was how the world ended

      • 45caliber


        Ah! I hadn’t realized that! Thanks for the info. I’ll have to watch my wife the next time we move …

      • Joe H

        Let us not forget all that methane released when they didn’t stick to their meat diet and ate plant matter!!! PHHHHHHHBT!!

  • 45caliber

    There is one nice thing about barter – there is no sales tax on it.

    • Joe H

      That depends. If you are bartering things you have bought, the sales tax on those items has already been paid, by you!

  • Becca

    I have been using the barter system for years. Nothing better !! I now raise meat rabbits and WILL be learning the entire process of dispatching and butchering. I’ve also got wool breeds and can shear them for their wool about 3 times a year. YES I know how to spin and can make my own yarn.

    • Dark_Archer

      Becca for 5 rabbits and the sheared wool of 5 lambs I’ll teach you everything you need to know about killing and butchering your rabbits and lambs plus i’ll throw in a couple of good recipes for both

    • 45caliber

      Becca (and others interested in the older crafts like weaving):

      I would suggest you find and start attending SCA (Society for Creative Anachronisms) meetings. They are fun (and fun to watch). {I always enjoy the fighting in armor with most weapons (WWIV).} One of the many awards they offer to members is called the Iris. It is for people who have mastered a craft well enough to support themselves with it. There are members who can teach all the different skills you might wish to learn. Nearly all larger cities have a branch but the easiest way to contact them is on the internet. They will tell you the nearest location and telephone numbers for contacts. It is also family oriented for all members of a family.

  • Spyderdalton

    funny we just traded an organic, toxin free lentil loaf for two haircuts.. Barttering has already begun!

  • John Grassel

    If you want to barter then use a good that will always be accepted after the dollar crashes. AMMO, AMMO AND MORE AMMO. .22 cal and shotgun ammo will probably be the best. They are probably the most common weapons owned in America.

    • 45caliber


      Asprin and other now common medications will also be good trade items. And despite what it says on a bottle, asprin and most other pills will last for many years.

      • Joe H

        As long as you keep it cool and dry! If left in a high enough temp for too long, aspirin can turn toxic.

  • fairwitness

    unless the world as we know it collapses, barter will NEVER replace money, because rich corksuckers (like the ones who fund this website) would have to get off their lazy fat useless butts and actually do some WORK, instead of claiming that they’re entitled to half the fruits of YOUR labor just because they loaned you some of the money that they stole from your parents.

    • 45caliber


      Loan sharks have always been around. Even the Bible mentions them (and condemns them for charging interest). “I’ll loan you this lamb for an evening meal but next week you owe me two of them – or I’ll have my boys drop around and break your legs.”

      Money was only a more conveinient way to trade since you didn’t have to find someone who had what you wanted and wanted what you had to trade.

      • GALT

        Nope!!!!!!! The actual cycle is credit, money, barter……..ever heard of a place called Sumeria…..,they had a written language…..with a lot of clay tablets…….and what those were, were credit ( debt ) records…….money came later…….

        If you think about it, the concept is fairly easy to grasp……you have something that you have enough of, and somebody else needs…..but they don’t have what you want or need……” I owe you one” or something……this happens all the time even now…..we call them favor’s and they are “sacred debt obligations”……..

        If you doubt that, you may recall this little bit…….Neither a borrower or a lender be, and all thy friends with love thee.

  • Wildey

    Bartering came first, exchanging things you need for things another person needs. The came a “medium of exchange”. Carrying something of value that everyone would accept for things you would need. Your medium of exchange, money, was a commodity in and of itself. It was as asset. People built a business on storing the people’s money. They were called banks. The bankers issued receipts to the people storing their asset, money. Soon bankers loaned the money they had stored by issuing receipts for money they didn’t have. That’s called counterfeiting. By doing this and loaning to the right people they became very rich but they needed an accommplice who would be able to keep the people from knowing if all the receipts they printing were genuine. The accomplice was none other than the peoples government. The bankers felt safe so they let their greed catch up to them. Soon there were so many receipts in circulation they were worth-less. The people turned a jaundiced eye on bankers and government. They even lost what the legitimate concept of banking was. 100% commodity for 100% receipts.

    When what had been happening came out, the people found the receipts in circulation were worthless. The whole system collapsed and the people were back to bartering. “The only thing new is the history you haven’t yet. Einstein: The definintion of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result.

  • GALT

    Dear fellow citizens, the following is an excerpt from Debt: the First 5000 Years…….written by the anthropologist, David Graeber which IS and empirical discipline based on EVIDENCE.

    Chapter Three: Primordial Debts

    The reason economic textbooks now begin with IMAGINARY villages is because it has been IMPOSSIBLE to talk about REAL ONES. Even some economists have been FORCED to admit that Smith’s Land of Barter, doesn’t REALLY exist.
    The QUESTION IS……..why the MYTH has been perpetuated, anyway? Economist’s have long since jettisoned other elements of The Wealth of Nations—for instance, Smith’s labor theory of value and disapproval of joint stock corporations. Why not write off the Myth of BARTER as a quaint Enlightenment parable, and instead attempt to understand primordial CREDIT arrangements—-or anyway, something more in keeping with the HISTORICAL evidence?

    The answer SEEMS to be that the MYTH of BARTER can NOT go away, because it is CENTRAL to the ENTIRE discourse of ECONOMICS.

    Recall here, what Smith was trying to DO when he wrote The Wealth of Nations. Above ALL, the book was an attempt to establish the NEWFOUND DISCIPLINE of economics as a SCIENCE, This MEANT that not only did economics have its own PECULIAR domain of study—-what we now call an “economy,” though the idea that there even was something called an “economy” was very NEW in Smith’s day—but that this economy operated according to LAWS of much the same sort as Sir Isaas Newton had so recently identified as governing the physical world. Newton had represented God as a cosmic watchmaker who had created the physical machinery of the universe ins uch a way that it would operate for the ultimate BENEFIT of humans, and then let it run on its own, Smith was TRYING to make a similar NEWTONIAN ARGUMENT. ( book excerpt, endith here )

    ” The lesson of history IS……we have learned NOTHING from history.”

    Probably because it kind of hard to find any real histor to learn from?

    If YOU would like to change that, read this BOOK and every other BOOK I have recommended on MY list of BOOKS……sorry no free links….but borrowing from a PUBLIC LIBRARY is free…tax payer money and all that.

    Galt, citizen at LARGE!

  • former walmart person

    Of course barter will work. The sooner we cast off the disgusting fiat money, the sooner we win our freedom. Fiat money is the path to damnation. Dealing in real money that won’t lose value (gold and silver have never been worth 0) is a win. If nothing else, food will always have value particualry if it can last several years. Canned food can effectively replace $20, and $100 bills in the event of a collapse. Food will ALWAYS have value, no matter what. In a super hard core mad max road warrior collapse, food will be PRICELESS and in that scenario, gold and silver might just be pretty things to look at but effectively worthless. Stocking up on months to years worth of food is a no brainer right now. Hell, if nothing else, buying a bunch of canned or storable food and slowly eating it down over the years will save you lots of money as inflation is guranteed to wipe away our money. You eat for years at the prices when you buy your food. Our elitist politicans and media talking heads might make fun of as horders but when they are willing to sell their teenage daughters into slavery for their daily bread, they will be eating their idocy.

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