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Appeals Court Says War Memorial Cross Is Unconstitutional

January 7, 2011 by  

Appeals court says war memorial cross is unconstitutional

A Federal appeals court has ruled that a 43-foot Christian cross located at a public war memorial in San Diego is unConstitutional, which is the latest decision in a legal battle that has spanned two decades.

On Jan. 4, the United States 9th Circuit Court of Appeals said that the cross, which sits atop a monument dedicated to war veterans, violates the Constitutional provision of separation of church and state. According to media reports, the three-judge panel reversed a 2008 ruling by U.S. District Judge Larry Burns who said that the cross could remain.

The appeals court did not order that the cross be removed, but instead sent the case back to a trial judge to determine what modifications were needed for the cross to be considered a Constitutional war memorial.

The American Center for Law and Justice (ACLJ), speaking on behalf of 25 members of Congress, said the appeals court ruling is a "slap in the face" to military veterans.

"This flawed decision not only strikes at the heart of honoring our military veterans, it reaches a faulty conclusion that this iconic memorial, part of the historic landscape of San Diego, is unConstitutional," said Jay Sekulow, chief counsel of the ACLJ. "We believe the appeals court got this decision wrong and we look forward to the case going to the Supreme Court where we're confident this decision will be overturned."

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  • J.M.R.

    ANOTHER LIBERAL IDIOT RUNNING HIS COMMIE MOUTH, JUDGE IF YOU DON’T LIKE IT BEING THERE THEN DON’T LOOK. WHY DON’T YOU JUST GO TO RUSSIA,CHINA, AND OR IRAN.

    • http://naver samurai

      I challenge this judge to show me where it says separation of church and state. It isn’t there! FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

      • Cassandra Texas

        The very predictable and CONTEMPTIBLE Ninth Circuit Court is typically constipated to its earlobes.

        • http://naver samurai

          I agree with you on that remark. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

          • M B

            The Cross has always been the American way, period.
            It has always been our symbol on graves in some way.
            If at any time someone, or 3 people or whatever, wants
            to change something (like this cross)that we use in
            cemeteries…then it should be put before the people
            for a vote ! America is not a one man show. It is
            all of us combined with our right to vote. A handful
            of people do not speak for the rest of us on this issue.

          • Robert Smith

            MB says: “A handful of people do not speak for the rest of us on this issue.”

            I’ll bet you are talking about judges.

            In FACT, they DO. The Founding Fathers set it up that way. You can’t take a cafiteria approach to the Constitution like you do religion.

            Rob

          • http://naver sook young

            Actually they don’t Robert. That is why any decision made by the court can be appealed. Plus, we Americans have the right to petition something like this and use our elected officials to speak for us. Judges aren’t necessarily needed. Thank you.

            Sook Young
            Wife of the Samurai

          • Mike In MI

            OK, Robber…t -
            Think you’ve got a case…eh? Well, let’s see here if you can take your opinion viral and apply it to the whole country. Most, or at least a huge percentage, of the cemeteries in the country are on public land – cities, municipalities, counties, national cemeteries for our war dead, etc. So, you and your friends should, if you really have the courage of your convictions, demand that all the crosses, six point stars and every other religious symbol or mention be chiseled from every grave site, stone, mausoleum and plaque remembrance you can find.
            Maybe it’ll give you a small appreciation for who did what for our nation and what those stands cost. What’d you ever do to build anything meaningful? You defile the ground you’re piled on.

          • http://naver samurai

            100% agree with you Mike in MI! Keep up the good fight, fellow patriot! FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

          • smilee

            Mike In MI says:
            January 9, 2011 at 8:14 pm

            Except for National Military Cemeteries very few cemeteries are public lands, most grave sites are owned by the individual and a large number of them are managed by church congregations and therefore religious symbols cannot be removed by the courts

    • hflashman

      It was a three judge panel, not a single judge. And the ruling wasn’t ‘take it down’, it was to send it back to the presiding trial judge for further review. in other words, plain and simple…everything is unchanged.

      Do you realize that ??? UNCHANGED ! It stands as is. What the presiding trial court judge does next is probably review his decision, confer with counsel, and make whatever adaptations required to get through the three judge panel.

      Of course, the parties could appeal to the full circuit, but this doesn’t appear to be the disposition of the litigants.

      However, that doesn’t prevent people on this board from over reacting and yelling and screaming….all about nothing.

      Now, if everyone could guarantee all soldier in the cemetary are christian…and of a sect of that religion that states crosses are a symbol of divine honor and blessing…you might have a leg to stand on. But think about this…..what if it were a Star of David and nothing else. Or the Crescent Sun, of the symbols of Krishna…and nothing else. What would you say then?

      Think about that.

      • eddie47d

        They would scream bloody murder. Nothing wrong with the cross as a Christian symbol and many tombstones have the cross on them and in National Cemeteries. It must be the size or the exclusiveness of this cross on public property that is the issue. All Veterans of all faiths should be recognized and bigger is not always better. No faith should try and out arrogant another Faith at least not on public property.

      • Louie

        hflashman, just who the hell do you think you are? Nobody said the Cross represented everyone in cemetery. It just represents the Christians. If you want to represent another religion, then put up their religious symbol, but leave the Christians alone or I might just come after your a**!?

        • hflashman

          Louie:

          As you seem to exemplify, christianity is such a peaceloving cult. Who do i think I am? I’m someone who sees that religion is something that most people seem to think is exclusionary of all others and that ‘their’ religion is the true religion. Thus, the State and the public at large have a duty and responsibility to ensure no religion breaches that wall that in the eyes of the state and the public…all religions are counted (or discounted) equally.

          I’m also someone who looks at what the article actually states if you strip the hyperbole and rhetoric out…and realizes that this is nothing but a scheme by the author to blow way out of proportion something that is …in all reality … nothing.

          And you fell for it. The question isn’t who do I think I am…rather, the question which should concern you is “who does everyone think you are?” since you displayed such stupidity in falling for the trick…

          • Bitter Libertarian

            We may not agree on a few things, but when you say; “Thus, the State and the public at large have a duty and responsibility to ensure no religion breaches that wall that in the eyes of the state and the public…all religions are counted (or discounted) equally.”

            I agree with you 100%, and its not because I dont believe in the Bible, or God. But Because I believe that NO GOVT should respect one religion any more then the other for any reasons, war, tax breaks, or health care. :)

          • http://marcum@wildblue.net coal miner

            hflashman,

            I agree with you.

          • http://naver sook young

            Our religion is the true faith. Our God is the only God and Jesus is our Lord and Saviour. All other religions, though I respect someone who has a different belief than I do (My family in Korea are Buddhists and ahteists.), but the ones they worship (buddha, hindi, shinto, allah, tao, confucious, etc) are all false gods and will get them nothing but an eternity in hell. What is your religion flashman? Do you have one? Can you answer my questions? Thank you.

            Sook Young
            Wife of the Samurai

          • HFlashman

            What is your religion flashman? Do you have one? Can you answer my questions? <— Sook

            If someone were to place my belief system in some catagory, probably closest to being identified as a Ptolemist. My own characterization is that I have no "religion', since group identification which is the common identifier in cult worship is not something I cotton to. What someone's "religion" is and what cult they need to fulfill a weakness within themselves is not my concern until it starts impeding on my freedom of action.

            Yes

            Yes

          • Richard Pawley

            Sook Young: Those who claim to be atheists are those who believe they are self made men, better than mere mortals, needing no one. They often feel in their heart of hearts, that they are God or should be. Lucifer was the greatest being that God ever created but, as one of my former auto mechanics used to say, “even with an I.Q. of 20,000 it wasn’t enough”. In other words he couldn’t stand the thought that he was a created being and so he kept blowing himself up in his own mind until he felt he could do better than God, in fact that He was God. In my autobiography, I quoted a well known South American psychologist who said that the delusion that we can be God is the most common form of mental disease on the planet. Atheism is virtually a cult unto itself. It does little good to argue with such people. In the super best seller from years ago, the classic Christian paperback, GOD CALLING edited by A. J. Russell, Jesus tells a woman in England that there are some cases where words will not work. Just loving such people will have eternal benefit for them. They obviously need it and even if no words are spoken love will have value for them. Prayer too, and don’t tell them that you are praying for them. Some of the people who don’t know God or even know that God is knowable, are sincere and dedicated, individuals, but blinded. Who knows what it will take to open their minds and spirits. It then comes down to their hearts, do they care, not like Stalin who said that “one death is a tragedy, a million deaths is just a statistic” but do they really care for their fellow man. Almost nothing is by accident and if a person claims to be an atheist, they might still be on the right track, if they love their fellow man, not as the Marxists do, who believe they should lord it over them, but as Jesus did. Of course none of us measure up to him, but remember Jesus said, GOD IS LOVE. There is no love in hell, and there is apparently more than one hell, but if LOVE is present, then God is present, even if words are unspoken. Of course what the world calls love, is often something else. When you see someone here who is angry (anger is usually a hidden fear) the best thing you can do for them is pray for them. Many have no one to pray for them, no friend, no relative, no one. To many Christians think it’s all about the spoken word, but the whole purpose of the Bible is to lead us to God and to eventually become like Him. God loves us all, even those who just can’t yet believe that life has purpose or meaning or that anyone can love them. Those are the people we should pray for. Did you ever check that web site about the after death experience that Dr. George Ritchie had as a young man? http://www.near-death.com/ritch.html Like the Bible Code, not all find it helpful but I have found both to be beneficial to my understanding and an example of how much God loves us. There are of course those who like Satan who was once Lucifer who hates God and are beyond prayer but none of us has the right to make that judgement of another human being. God hates no one. He only hates that which will destroy what He loves: us! Look at how prayer brought many new people into the House this past November. If we who believe continue to pray we can replace those in the Senate too, who insist that government is god and should be as big as possible. It’s true as someone wrote here that we can’t go back to the pioneer days but we don’t have to devolve into the one world dictatorship that the Bible seems to imply is coming. Only prayer and wisdom from God can slow this down. The atheists are not going to pray so it’s up to us.
            May God bless you and all who read this.

          • Karolyn

            Sook – And I say again, this is why Christians may be perceived as being “persecuted.” It’s because they are always telling everyone that if you don’t believe MY way, you are doomed. It’s the arrogance and self-righteousness that’s the problem.

          • Karolyn

            Richard – Do you really believe that praying brought people “to the house”, in November, as in people were converted because they voted republican??? How does being conservative or republican relate to being Christian. Somehow too many people have this mixed up idea that liberals are all evil atheists. What’s up with that? One can believe in God and not be a Christian, as with myself.

          • Thomas G Kroger

            There is a “myth of separation” which the Left has adhered to, ever since the most despicable Chief Justice in our nation’s history destroyed our nation’s public schools. The nation’s Founding Fathers meant only that there shall no test of religion to hold public office; that’s all. HFlashman, who appears to be on the wrong side of most other issues as well, doesn’t get it, any more than the Left gets it. The hard fact is that this nation would have been inconceivable without its Biblical foundations; these precepts go back to the Magna Carta, and the Declaration of Independence, as well as the Constitution. “Separation of church and state” is NOWHERE in the Constitution, regardless of what the subversive, toxic idiot Earl Warren believed. What the Left and its fellow travelers want, is freedom FROM religion, and they’ve made that clear enough by getting in everyone’s face through billboards attacking Christmas as a “myth,” and decrying the Pledge of Allegiance. If they don’t like it, they can leave the country, or go to some Islamic Hell-hole to “explore” whether they will like that better. But they are also guilty of a double standard: the Left has also made it clear that it harbors a particular enmity toward Christianity.

          • http://naver sook young

            That may be true Karolyn, but then why did Christians go into a Catholic church in Egypt for a Christmas service and terrorists came in and killed between 50 – 80 people? The Christians did nothing to deserve that. How about the ones in Iraq that are being killed be people that are supported by Al Queda just because of our faith? How about December last year when muslim terrorists bombed a church in the Philippines for the glory of their false God allah? How about when this kid from Somalia planned to blow up people at a Christmas tree lighting in Portland Oregon? Many of which, not all of them of course, were Christian. Gee, it really sounds like we are being persecuted for our faith and not because of the “fire and brimstone” speeches either. Thank you.

            Sook Young
            Wife of the Samurai

          • Richard Pawley

            Karolyn: I’m not sure I understand your question. Yes, I do believe that some of the people who were elected to Congress in November would not be there if I and others had not prayed more than we have in years, that God would work His will on the whole affair. Only He knows what is truly best in all things and that is the safest way to pray if we want what is best. No one was converted that I know of and of course, being conservative or Republican doesn’t relate (or correspond) to being Christian at all. I agree that being a liberal doesn’t make one evil and it’s foolishness to think so. From what I have heard the congresswoman from Arizona, Gabrielle Giffords, is one of the good people, maybe one of the best, and I have been praying for her healing since I heard she was shot (even though she is from the other side of the aisle. I’m sure Sarah Palin has been praying for her too). From what I have heard Gabrielle seems to be an outstanding person. And of course you can believe in God without being a Christian, but unless you are Jewish, you can’t know Him as many Christians do. All the promises God made to the Jews in the Bible are still valid for them and Christians. God doesn’t change, but He promised us a Messiah, some three thousand years ago, and we believe that He fulfilled His promise in Jesus. Gotta run. My wife is coming home from work and I promised I’d have a late lunch ready for her. God loves you – never doubt it!

          • Robert Smith

            From sook: “Our religion is the true faith.”

            That’s what they all say, except for a few who don’t bother others.

            Do you really not understand why your attitude is hated by some?

            Makes me wonder who the real morons are.

            Rob

          • http://naver sook young

            You seem to be leading to be chosen for that title Robert. Thank you.

            Sook Young
            Wife of the Samurai

          • http://marcum@wildblue.net coal miner

            HFlashman,

            Quote by John Adams:

            “We think ourselves possessed, or, at least, we boast that we are so, of liberty of conscience on all subjects, and of the right of free inquiry and private judgment in all cases, and yet how far are we from these exalted privileges in fact! There exists, I believe, throughout the whole Christian world, a law which makes it blasphemy to deny or doubt the divine inspiration of all the books of the Old and New Testaments, from Genesis to Revelations. In most countries of Europe it is punished by fire at the stake, or the rack, or the wheel. In England itself it is punished by boring through the tongue with a red-hot poker. In America it is not better; even in our own Massachusetts, which I believe, upon the whole, is as temperate and moderate in religious zeal as most of the States, a law was made in the latter end of the last century, repealing the cruel punishments of the former laws, but substituting fine and imprisonment upon all those blasphemers upon any book of the Old Testament or New. Now, what free inquiry, when a writer must surely encounter the risk of fine or imprisonment for adducing any argument for investigating into the divine authority of those books? Who would run the risk of translating Dupuis? But I cannot enlarge upon this subject, though I have it much at heart. I think such laws a great embarrassment, great obstructions to the improvement of the human mind. Books that cannot bear examination, certainly ought not to be established as divine inspiration by penal laws. It is true, few persons appear desirous to put such laws in execution, and it is also true that some few persons are hardy enough to venture to depart from them. But as long as they continue in force as laws, the human mind must make an awkward and clumsy progress in its investigations. I wish they were repealed. The substance and essence of Christianity, as I understand it, is eternal and unchangeable, and will bear examination forever, but it has been mixed with extraneous ingredients, which I think will not bear examination, and they ought to be separated. Adieu.”

          • http://naver sook young

            Coal Miner, that was really good of you to post something like that from John Adams, but I also have a few for you.

            “It is religion and morality alone, which we can establish the principles upon which freedom can surely stand.”

            “We recognize no Sovereign but God, and no King but Jesus!”

            “The Christian religion is the religion of Wisdom, Virtue, Equity, and Humanity.”

            “July 4th ought to be commemorated as the day of deliverance by solemn acts of devotion to God Almighty.”

            You said to me he was a certain denomination, but since he seems to always give credit to God, Jesus, and Christianity, I must say that you have been proven false in your claim. Thank you.

            Sook Young
            Wife of the Samurai

          • smilee

            Thomas G Kroger says:
            January 8, 2011 at 6:03 pm

            The Supreme Courts job is to interpret the Constitution and they interpreted that there is a separation of church and state in the first amendment and I agree it means that despite the fact the words that you want are not there. The court decided that and then that makes it the real meaning of the Constitution, their word counts yours does not, your word is merely your opinion and your entitled to that but your opinion means nothing with regard to what they interpreted it to mean and is totally a misinterpretation on your part.

          • smilee

            sook young says:
            January 11, 2011 at 1:49 am

            YOU SAY:

            “We recognize no Sovereign but God, and no King but Jesus!”

            “The Christian religion is the religion of Wisdom, Virtue, Equity, and Humanity.”

            WE as you state it is Christians only and you say you are a Christin but the Constitution covers every citizen that is not a Christian and they have the same rights under it as you and Christians do. You do not respect that their beliefs have the same Constitutional protections as you and Christians do. PS. I am a Christian to and I disagree with you that the Superiority of Christianity is a part of the Constitution, in fact it is not but many Christians believe that, I see it as an arrogant attitude and I do not believe arrogance is a part of Christianity.

          • http://naver samurai

            Smilee, long time – no see! So you want to attack my wife for no reason eh? If you are a Christian, as you have posted you are, then you must know that we are the true faith. Our God is the one true God and Jesus is his Son. We must go by the Bible and all the teachings of Jesus, all of them that is. We must also know why Jesus came to the earth. If you don’t agree with any of these things, then you are weak in the faith. This nation was founded on Christian principles and we are a Christian nation. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

          • smilee

            samurai says:
            January 12, 2011 at 12:23 am

            Smilee, long time – no see! So you want to attack my wife …DID NOT ATTACK YOUR WIFE, THAT IS JUST YOUR SPIN…for no reason eh? If you are a Christian, …I AM…. as you have posted you are, then you must know that we are the true faith. Our God is the one true God and Jesus is his Son. We must go by the Bible and all the teachings of Jesus, all of them that is. We must also know why Jesus came to the earth. …I AGREE WITH THEM, WHAT’S YOUR POINT… NOT ALL PEOPLE DO AND UNDER OUR CONSTITUTION WE MUST RESPECT THEM WHICH YOU DO NOT….If you don’t agree with any of these things, then you are weak in the faith. This nation was founded on Christian .. WRONG… principles and we are a Christian nation…WRONG… FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

        • Robert Smith

          From Louie: “Christians alone or I might just come after your a**!?”

          Another threat of violence from a christian. And then they have the gall to ask why aren’t they liked or respected.

          Thanks for another example of christian hatred.

          Rob

          • http://naver samurai

            Invoked by atheist antagonists like you rob, moron! FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

      • Sandra Lee Smith

        It should NEVER have gone to court in the first place; it’s part of the “free exercise thereof” not to be prohibited and harms NO ONE! As a veteran who happens to not be a Christian, I don’t find that an offensive expression of honor to the fallen who gave their all in service to this nation, and I suspect those souls wouldn’t find it so either; it was erected in HONOR and with love and respect for them! The Libs and ACLU can’t have it both ways; either they respect the Constitution as it is, or they CAN’T quote and stand on it’s provisions to make their arguments against it!

        • Bitter Libertarian

          “Or prohibiting the free exercise thereof” Applies to private individuals or private organizations..the GOVT is Public.

          If Public Funds were used, then the Amendment does not apply to the Monument, but to its owners.

        • http://marcum@wildblue.net coal miner

          Sook Young,

          Do you know the name of the evil one in the Old Testament?It wasn’t Satan.
          You won’t believe it,it was God.God said he was the author of good and evil.He sent an evil spirit,but wait a minute thats Satan’s job.You think God is trying to hog the market.Poor old Satan.He gets the blame for everything.HA ha ha ha ha ha ha

        • http://marcum@wildblue.net coal miner

          Richard Pawley,

          Lucifer in The Bible was not Satan.It was the morning star Venus.Check it out.

          • http://naver samurai

            Too much kool aid! FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

          • Robert Smith

            How many times does it need to be explained to you that that there christian Jones didn’t use kool-aid to poison his flock.

            Goddess Bless America

            Can you prove that the most powerful of all isn’t a woman, samurai?

            Rob

          • http://naver samurai

            Can you moron? I didn’t think so. Here’s a question for you rob, can you prove God doesn’t exist? I didn’t think so. Keep your idiotic rantingsa to yourself and off of this site. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

            P.S. Jones wasn’t a Christian. What about that idiot that shot that representative from Arizona? He was an atheist and a very left wing fanatic. It looks like a black eye for your side, moron.

          • Richard Pawley

            Many Christians don’t accept what he said, and he didn’t at first himself, but Edgar Cayce, America’s so called ‘sleeping prophet’ once said that what we call stars are actually the physical bodies of angels, in a different dimension. I have no opinion on that but much of what he said while asleep was fascinating and he helped many people. There is much that we don’t know and some we will never know until we cross over to the other side, but many have experienced God in their life through the teachings of the Bible, also called the written word of God. On some things we could argue forever and nothing will be accomplished but as the ancient Chinese saying goes, when the student is ready the teacher will appear. The best book about Edgar Cayce for Christians is “20th Century Prophecy” by James Bjornstad. It’s out of print, but available. There are more than a hundred books about Cayce and his work for non-Christians, and several for and by doctors. I write about it and him in LEAVING SOUTH CAROLINA.

      • Angie

        We were founded a Christian nation and by God we are!!! I”m so tired of the pissers and whiners crying every time they see a cross or some religious symbol. Well, I’m getting sick of seeing mosques built in our nation. If they don’t like it they can go back where they came from!!! I don’t go to their country and try to tell them they can’t have things they believe in there. Praise the Lord and pass the ammunition. I’m ready to fight for our country. The vast majority (84%) of us have no problem with crosses in our cemeteries and memorials, so I say majority rules!

        • http://naver samurai

          You’re right Angie. We were founded a Christian nation. Now before the moron libs take a few shots at me, how about looking at this site and then you tell me what you think.

          http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-DzDCe5u3Y

          The person on there is a real historian and gives tours of the Capitol Building. Those of you who say Jefferson was a deist? Bzzzz, wrong answer. This site may “enlighten” the libs quite a bit. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

          • Curtis

            hahaha David Barton hahaha. Oral Roberts University grad… Christian Historical revisionist hahaha. Are you serious?

          • http://naver samurai

            Where he graduated is irrelevant, Chris! FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

          • Richard Pawley

            Excellent short video but those who have an agenda that is different from the facts will never accept the truth. They can’t be in error so the world must be in error. My advice: spend as much time praying as you do writing and you will see things change for the better, if not for the country, for you and your own family. Make sure the church you attend is truly teaching what Jesus taught, that it is a place where miracles take place and people are healed and lives changed.

          • http://naver sook young

            Thank you Richard. I’ve been too busy working to read the posts these days. I’ve read yours and I want to say thank you for veing on the side of God and the patriots. People like you are an asset to this country, while those who seek to make it worse are enemies of it. I just want to say:

            “I have always said, and will always say, that studious perusal of the sacred volume will make us better citizens.” Thomas Jefferson.

            Jefferson is right even to this day it is true what he says. Thank you.

            Sook Young
            Wife of the Samurai

        • Richard Pawley

          But Angie we are not just fighting “ding-bats and yo-yo’s” as Archie Bunker used to say, but evil. Evil is spiritual and only spiritual weapons can be successful against those who would destroy the USA. Of course, we were founded as a pro-Judeo-Christian nation, free of a forced state denomination, but although there are many Christians and Jews who love God in the United States today, one can hardly say we are still Christian when we have allowed 50,000,000 children to be killed since 1973. Abortion was illegal in 1776 so the Founding Fathers would never have approved Roe vs. Wade but would have delegated that to the states if any wanted it. Instead the ever-growing FEDERAL Government has forced this on us all. If they had followed the constitition they would have said there is no such right and then we would have left it to the states where it should be decided, but there are many in this nation today who believe that only an over-riding supreme government that is involved in every aspect of our lives is the answer to the brave new world of Marxist Utopia! Likewise the radical notion of homosexual marriages is not found in the constitution and if it is going to exist it can only be something that takes place on a state level. However, even here the FEDERAL government feels it should be the referee. The states should not be able to decide and busy body Uncle Sam knows best. Twice California said no, and twice, FEDERAL judges in the ninth district, who think they have the wisdom of God, have said, “No, the people are wrong, and what we say goes!” This sort of thing could not happen in a truly Christian country or even in a country that followed the Constitution. According to the Constitution the states have the ulitmate power, but according to Marxist Socialism, Nazism, Facism, or Communism, the FEDERAL government has the final say. As a nation we still have many Christian values but like the ancient Israelites we have lost our way as a nation. Like ancient Rome we are spread thin all over the world. Like the Romans we have been debauching our money (creating 70,000 million dollars each month out of thin air) which would not have been possible if we had not thrown out another part of the constitition, saying that CONGRESS WAS RESPONSIBLE for the money and that only gold and silver will be money. Some wrote that we are the richest nation in the world but that is a gross error. Our wealth is merely paper, cotton and linen. WE OWE MORE THAN ANY NATION HAS EVER OWED IN THE HISTORY OF THE WORLD. Being in debt doesn’t make one rich. A executive at GE recently wrote me and reminded me that we have more gold in the treasury than any nation on earth BUT DURING THE LAST FOUR YEAR REIGN OF NANCY PELOSI AND HER SIDE-KICK HARRY REID, WE SPENT 14 TIMES THE VALUE OF ALL THAT GOLD IN THE TREASURY, IF WE VALUE IT AT 1400 AN OUNCE. One might that Nancy Pelosi has spent more money than any woman in history ($5,150,000 million dollars). Being in debt is not a Christian virtue. In fact the scriptures say “Owe no man anything but the debt of love” and up until the first Great Depression (the one that I wrote about in LEAVING SOUTH CAROLINA, my autobiography, will be even GREATER) you could not get loans on houses or cars for more than five years because many people believed that verse. A few years ago in 1999 Clinton signed off on the Republican Bill that eliminated all the safeguards (The Glass-Steagal Act) that kept the banks from creating another financial crisis and it only took 8 years for them to create another stock market crash and even the Chairman of the FED says it will take at least 8 years to get things back to ‘normal’. I propose that things will not get back to ‘normal’ anytime in our lifetime if we don’t turn back to God. There is so much that God has revealed that even many of his people don’t know. The key for all who call themselves Christians is to pray every day that God will work His will on all our country. Only He can stop the evil and re-establish righteousness. No one is going to like the future if this doesn’t happen. May God bless all who read this, no one else is going to do so!

        • Robert Smith

          Angie says: ” If they don’t like it they can go back where they came from!!! ”

          What about the American Indians who were murdered by all those early christians? They belong here. And I’ll bet their gods are upset that yours stomped on them.

          Don’t you think oppression is very bad no matter who does it? Even in the name of the christian god.

          Rob

          • Richard Pawley

            Of course oppression is bad no matter who does it! But you sound like you are looking for reasons to oppose God and His only begotten Son (We are all sons of God if we accept being adopted into the Family of God). That’s what Christianity is all about. A common mistake is to look at all who call themselves Christian and think that is how God is like…No, No, No, a thousand times No! Becoming a Christian means you are on the right road, BUT YOU STILL HAVE TO MAKE THE TRIP. Ideally and ultimately those who are cooperating with God on their journey are going to go a lot further than those who just accept Jesus but seldom pray or read the Bible to learn and grow the way He wants us to do. I sincerely doubt if there were many but ordinary people who were fighting the Native Americans. Your assumption that all the peoples in early days of our country were Christian would be taken exception to my many who write on this site. You talk about the Native American ‘gods’ being angry that the Christian God stomped on them, and that is almost true. Some of the Native Americans were decent peoples and some tribes were not. Grouping them all together is the same as saying that all the early Americans were Christian. Some were, some weren’t. Me thinks you are arguing for the sake of argument, but God still loves you anyway!

          • Mike In MI

            Robert Smith and Karolyn -
            There’s something your ignorance of Scripture leaves you incredibly vulnerable to: as Karolyn said (above, Jan 8 12:06 pm), “…there are many that believe in God, as myself”.
            You ought to read the Gospels and Acts and consider something that becomes very clear there. Jesus Christ was sent to the Hebrew people to fulfill promises made by God millenia before. By the time Jesus was sent the Hebrews had got to the point they “believed in” God but few actually “believed” God. There is an eternity’s worth of difference between the two positions.
            In Acts, chapters 1 – 7, you read about some men who quickly surmounted some huge personal hurdles. They went from abject fear of Judaic leaders to standing before them at trials and telling those Judaic leaders they ought to consider, “Whether it be right in the sight of God to hearken unto you more than unto God, you judge.”
            See, those blind Judaists “worshipped at” God and “believed in” God
            but refused to “BELIEVE GOD” in the face of tremendous evidence that they were about to get rolled over by the ball they had fallen off.
            See, when the apostles taught and prayed signs and healings and wonders hapened. It still happens today where people actually believe and do what those first century disciples said and did.
            Be careful to make sure you’re, “On the ball”.

          • Richard Pawley

            Well said, Mike!

    • Sntich-in-Time

      The clowns in the 9th Circus Court strike again! Send out the clowns.

    • Robert Smith

      Hi J.M.R.,

      If someone wanted to put a pentical, or some other religious sign on top would that be OK with you?

      Rob

      • http://naver samurai

        I’ve seen the Star of David at cemeteries. No problem there. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

    • http://yahoo cayita

      I so agree with you. Our Founding Fathers would be turning in their graves if they knew what a weak, moronic, socialist we’ve managed to turn into a president. I didn’t vote this year because the choices seemed horrible and I just couldn’t figure out which I thought was the least horrible choice. I will not make that mistake again. If only we’d known what this pathetic “yes boy” was going to try to do and do to our country. We’re so far in debt and I read somewhere online that he wanted to send (outrageous) 142 billion dollars to poverty stricken countries. I believe personally in helping others and I suppose I would think the same way for my country, but I believe in helping your own, THEN AND ONLY THEN, if you are able to help others as well, great! Maybe that number is wrong, but I don’t think so. I couldn’t stand having Clinton as president and feeling as if he made our country a laughing-stock, but this is even way worse. He’s a snake in the grass. Putting those appointees in office when there was no one there to question his moves. I doubt he’s even a citizen. He doesn’t act like one. He acts like a complete pansy, unless he’s busy trying to buy political loyalty by spreading American dollars around we don’t have to spend. That’s not HIS

  • http://aol.com sean murrey

    this is nothing new coming out of calfiora.

  • KeyWestForYou

    The issue of the separation of church and state is laughable. What about the definition of marriage. The State has decided the separation of church and state does not apply to marriage given the Church created the institution of marriage which was later (much much) licensed by the State.

    • JKO

      EXCELLENT POINT!!! One of the best I’ve heard.

    • ValDM

      The Church did NOT create marriage. God created marriage by creating Adam first, then Eve to be his companion and partner. The Church, as you refer to it, INSTITUTIONALIZED it.

      • hflashman

        ValDM…such is the interpretation your particular christian sect states. There are several variations to that theme just in christianity alone, much less every other religion … and the Bible is contradictory on that as well.

        I suggest you quit trying to foist your sect’s view as being the correct view.

        • http://naver samurai

          Did you ever think, not possible for a lib, that these other religions may have copied after our faith and our God’s ways of doing things? Islam took things from the pagans, Jews, and Christianity. Can they be doing the same? FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

          • http://marcum@wildblue.net coal miner

            samurai,

            Christianity did too.All religions and myths borrow from each other.The Romans borrow from the Greeks,The Greeks from Egyptians, The Egyptians from the Babylonians,the Babylonians from Mespotamians and I could go on and on.Christianity is an inaccurate copy of all ancient religions.The ones who wrote the New Testament must have been drunk,it contradicts The Old Testament as well as itself,for instance,the Gospels.

          • http://naver samurai

            I understand what you are saying coal dungger, but the Christian God IS THE ONE TRUE GOD. Jesus is is son and our Saviour. You can believe differently, that’s your right of course, but I know what I say is true. This is a Christian nation.

            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-DzDCe5u3Y

            FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

          • Karolyn

            If you do your homework, samurai, you will find that many tales in the Bible are taken directly from previous civilizations goiong back to 3000 bc. So who’s copying who?

          • Karolyn

            Correct translation: Jesus is not THE son of God but is A son of God, as are we all – all parts of a whole.

          • http://naver samurai

            I challenge you to cite your sources, if you have any Karolyn. Remember, this nation is a Christian nation. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

          • Robert Smith

            samurai claims: “these other religions may have copied after our faith and our God’s ways of doing things?”

            Jews didn’t. In fact your religion is based upon worshiping the Jewish kid.

            Pagans came way before christians. In fact christians stole the holidays from them, particularly christmas.

            Why do you make such things up samurai?

            Rob

          • Robert Smith

            Samurai says: “Remember, this nation is a Christian nation.”

            Quit lying about that. In fact you haven’t shown us anything in the Constitution of the United States that comes from your religion.

            Why do you make so much stuff up?

            Goddess & Mars bless America.

            Rob

          • http://naver samurai

            Rob, there may not be anything in the Constitution, but if you read it and study our founding fathers then you’ll know I’m right. Quit making things up for you atheist, lib, gay loving, baby killing, marxist friends. Believe me rob, moron, your kind are a disgrace to this country and should go somewhere else. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

          • http://naver samurai

            Rob and coal dungger, here is an easy question for you morons. “What proof and evidence can you provide the proves atheism is accurate and correct?” NO YOUTUBE VIDEOS!

            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OtNEeflbhHg
            wwwshockawenow.com

            FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

        • Richard Pawley

          Why does this bother you so? The whole world is NEVER going to agree with you on everything, and you are never going to agree with the whole world. I’d say the same is true will all of us. It is only as we draw closer to God through the sacrifice of His Son, that we draw closer to each other. I know cases I wouldn’t even tell you because you simply could not believe them, but there are former Muslims and former Jews who are now both friends and worship together because their unity in Christ has made them brothers when once they were trying to kill each other. I’d rather be ignorant or unschooled but on the right road that brilliant and educated and on the road to perdition. “Seek and ye shall find” but argue and you waste a lot of time. Of course if you are really seeking and not just trying to prove that hundreds of millions are wrong then all this arguing could be a necessary step in your growth. Even thought you don’t know Him or apparently know that He is, God still loves you too. I hope you discover this someday. It will make a big difference in your life.

      • Robert Smith

        ValDM says: “God created marriage…”

        Not so if you ask an atheist.

        BTW, when the government is involved atheists can marry, and in some states so can gays NO MATTER WHAT YOUR GOD of HIS FOLLOWERS say.

        Keep your religion out of my life.

        Rob

        • http://naver samurai

          Remember rob, moron, the first marriage was Adam and Eve. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

          • Robert Smith

            From Samurai: “the first marriage was Adam and Eve.”

            Naw, Adam traded a rib to god for his company and servant. Is there anyplace in the christian bible where your god said they were man and wife?

            Isis, Isis, Isis, Rah, Rah, Rah!

            Rob

          • http://naver samurai

            Adam didn’t trade anything. God took his rib and made Eve. That’s why a woman a 1 more rib then a man has. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

          • http://marcum@wildblue.net coal miner

            samurai,

            No, that is not true. The only way this would be true is if there was an abnormality in a woman that would cause her to have less ribs. Both men and women have 24 ribs, 12 on each side. People have been known to have as many as 24-26 of them, but these actually can cause pain. You just stuck your foot in your mouth again.Contact the doctor on this website,he will verify what I am saying.Ask Dr. Mark Wiley,better yet ask that nutty wife of yours.You and her are jokes.HA HA HA HA

        • Richard Pawley

          And our entire life is but a parenthesis in a sentence, in a paragraph on a page of the book of our life. Birth opens the parenthesis, death closes it, then back to real-life history. So said Jesus to a woman in England some 80 years ago (GOD CALLING, edited by A.J. Russell, along with over 350 other short teachings that have helped many who were seeking). He went on to tell her that she should remember that when she was going through times of struggle or sorrow or defeat and failure, or even times of joy and success…that is was all just a parenthesis. Of course this is not to imply that our life is not important, just that it is not what we often think it is.

    • Loyde Williams

      The church created the institution of Marriage? Wrong !! You need to go ALL the way back to see where marriage began. Then you will under stand why modern day thoughts on marriage are so Stupid. In the Bible The Book of Genesis chap.2:verses 18-25 we read of the first marriage, instituted by The Almighty and performed on a man and a woman. There is no other marriage authorised by the Lord God Almighty!!Its the “church” that screwed things up by catering to the whims of a few ungodly people. Yep I’m preaching, thats what God Called me to do. And “We ought to obey God rather than man” Acts 5:29 and Acts4:18-20. Otherwise I agree with you Keywest,

      • JKO

        OK OK I agree with you. But it was the church that recognized it way before government got involved. And I do agree that the church has screwed this and quite a few other things – and I have been going for 54 years (even before I was born).

      • Les

        They can redefine words, revise history and support every form of indecency and tyranny. Defunding comes to mind here. We are a Judeo – Christian nation and the principles of freedom that we are losing are Christian principles. The Flashtroll is history impaired. The wicked take advantage of the tolerance and charity ingrained in our national beliefs. Were you aware that ‘Common Law Marriage’ is still legally recognized by the courts? Have you ever looked into what is meant by the term ‘Common Law’? It is specifically protected in the Constitution and is the substance of the Declaration of Independence. It is derived from the Jurist point of view of common sense and natural principles. It was guaranteed by our founders as a supplement to the legislative procedures and was particularly American as it was to be consistent with the Constitution and founding principles. Bring it BACK.

        • Robert Smith

          Les says: “We are a Judeo – Christian nation and the principles of freedom that we are losing are Christian principles.”

          Tell us Les, where is your god mentioned in our Constitution?

          In fact the only time religion is mentioned it is a prohibition.

          BTW, what about the freedoms of other religions? Those who believe it’s OK for same sex couples to marry, those who believe it’s OK to end suffering by one’s own choice? They just don’t seem to get the same “freedom” you want to take away from them.

          Rob

          • Richard Pawley

            We are free to do whatever we choose but that doesn’t mean that all we choose is best. God is always there and if you ever need Him He will not turn away if you are sincere, but it is difficult (although not impossible) for someone who has opposed Him for decades to accept the LIFE He gives. There are some 200,000 former gays and lesbians in this country and it was not psychiatry that turned them into straights but an encounter with the living God. Some of their stories are amazing and a better writer than I could make a best seller out of them.

        • Robert Smith

          “But it was the church that recognized it way before government got involved.”

          Not really. “marriage” was for treaties and wealth management. The pomp and religious rules were for the church to make money.

          Indulgencies anyone?

          I used mine to make sure I’d get into heaven. Unfortunately I couldn’t afford health care so I guess I’ll get there faster.

          Rob

          • http://naver samurai

            Bzzzzz wrong answer, moron! Marriage was already instituted in the church before the government got involved. Now, there is a lot of government involvement. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

      • HFlashman

        LOL…so all other unions before christianity came about to copy and plagerize off past beliefs system are not to be counted as anything other than ….what? A method for an easy lay? jeesh …

        Marriage is a decision by two to become one. The State came into the issue when it saw the need to catalogue such for reasons reating to children, property ownership, inheritance, and taxation.

        Which makes the issue of gay marriage laughable. Gays can be married anytime, anywhere. What the fight is about is they want…they demad…the state recognize such for reasons relating to the above four reasons for state licensing. Me? Heck…if two folks want to get married and get hit with the extra taxation, and feed the courts via divorce etc…who am I to say they can’t? It’s not a religious issue. It’s a property and tax issue.

        • Robert Smith

          From HFlashman: “What the fight is about is they want…they demad…the state recognize such for reasons relating to the above four reasons for state licensing.”

          What’s wrong with equality under law?

          Here in America equality is what it’s all about.

          To do it otherwise is un-American.

          Rob

        • Robert Smith

          From HFlashman: “What the fight is about is they want…they demad…the state recognize such for reasons relating to the above four reasons for state licensing.”

          What’s wrong with equality under law?

          To do it otherwise is un-American.

          Rob

          • http://naver samurai

            First, why do you have to repeat yourself, moron? Second, when our founders said “all men are created equal”, they ment we are all created equal in the eyes of God. This is a Christian nation. If the people that died and are buried there are Christians, then what’s wrong with having a cross there?

            “We believe that all men are created equal, because they are created in the image of God!” Harry S. Truman.

            FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

          • smilee

            samurai says:
            January 8, 2011 at 9:25 pm

            Do you think Jesus and God approve of you calling so many here, Morons. I don;t think there is even one case of Jesus doing that while he was on earth.

          • http://naver samurai

            So smilee, just like normal. You pick one thing from someone’s post, instead of answering about everything written. Classic lib strategy! Too bad it won’t work this time. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

        • Dan az

          Whereas it is not otherwise illegal to be married under common or natural law; and,
          Whereas the only other reason it would be unlawful for two consenting adults to be married is if they were incompetent;

          Therefore, if a couple goes to “the state” and asks the state for a license, where there is no other reason for them to need a license other than incompetence, in law, those requesting a license must be incompetent because that is the only reason they could need a license.

          Now, one must ask, “When a bride and groom are incompetent to be married without a state license and that state grants that license, Who is responsible for the marriage?”

          Answer: The state.

          Who is responsible for anything created in such a licensed marriage?

          Answer: The state.

          And, what, typically, is the only thing created in such a marriage?

          Answer: Children.

          So I ask you, “Who do the children created in a state licensed marriage belong to?”

          Answer: They belong to the state.

          If you don’t believe it, the check out the evidence:

          Evidence #1 – The state social services stand their authority on a doctrine called “Parens Patria” which is Latin for “parent of the country”. In modern usage parens patria is understood to mean, “the state is the parent”.

          • Robert Smith

            Posted: “And, what, typically, is the only thing created in such a marriage?”

            You say children. If so then why would any woman want to marry after menaupause?

            Why would a wounded soldger want to marry?

            Children will happen anyhow. Almost 40% are out of wedlock now.

            BTW, that’s how it worked for the poor until the church came along. They simply set up housekeeping.

            Rob

          • http://naver samurai

            Rob, you really need to learn to spell and tell the truth about things. Out of wedlock births do happen, but they aren’t suppossed to happen. A woman should get married first. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

        • Mike In MI

          No, fleshman – that’s not why gags want ssm.
          They want it because it makes them seem…?…normal
          On the otherhand, doing things the Devil’s way makes him feel more on par with God – which is what he wanted since his megalomania (almost as bad as Obumbler’s) persuaded him to want God’s worship. The gerbil packers have always been part of religions…that God refuses to attend.

    • Karolyn

      There are churches who recognize gay marriage, so what’s your point? Marriage was not instituted by “religion” per se.

      • http://naver samurai

        A church that recognizes gay marriage isn’t a real Christian church. They are Christian in name only and not in deed. Learn to see which one they are before you post. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

        • HFlashman

          Samurai…such is your view. If you want that respected…then sow respect for others who hold dissimilar views. Yours is based upon your religion and cult beliefs. Let others have the same right.

          • Richard Pawley

            Everyone (in this country anyway) is free to believe whatever they choose to believe (so far) but that is not to pre-suppose that all beliefs are true or equal or that there is no ultimate truth! Some believe they ARE God, the most common mental disease according to one major South American psychiatrist, but that doesn’t mean that they are God. There are laws of the Universe that apply whether one believes in them or not, Gravity, the Law of Reciprocity, and E equals Mc squared. Jump off a cliff on this planet and you will fall, “as you sow, you will ultimately reap”. Because of what has happened to you in life you may refuse to acknowledge that God loves you but He still loves you. You have the power to reject him and end up in that place where people are forever trying to force their beliefs upon others that Dr. George Ritchie saw long ago: http://www.near-death.com/ritch.html

        • Robert Smith

          samurai claims: “A church that recognizes gay marriage isn’t a real Christian church. They are Christian in name only and not in deed. Learn to see which one they are before you post.”

          Just how do we do that samurai?

          Should we believe you?

          Should we believe Jerry Falwell, Jim Bakker, or any of those who got caught up in homexual scandals even though they preached otherwise?

          How’s bout if we listen to Bishop Spong?

          And what about religions that have nothing to do with your version of christanity? Why do you attempt to outlaw their beliefs? That ain’t American.

          Rob

          • http://marcum@wildblue.net coal miner

            Robert Smith,

            You can’t talk to that nut.Samurai is a moron.Samurai keeping saying that Jefferson wasn’t a deist,but here is the proof he was.

            http://www.deism.com/deistamerica.htm

          • libertytrain

            Frankly I think the only accurate answer would be to ask Mr. Jefferson himself.

          • http://naver samurai

            Coal Miner and Rob are two complete morons. they are only here to try to keep us from knowing the truth, that this is s Christian nation. No Coal Dungger, I will not watch that atheist video, but watch this one from the historian that gives daily tours of the Capitol Building.

            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-DzDCe5u3Y

            FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

            P.S. Rob asks how can I say the church doesn’t accept gay marriage? Just look in the Bible. If it’s wrong in the Bible, then it’s wrong in the church. If it’s acceptable, then why is it against the law to perform such ceremonies according to Indiana law?

        • http://marcum@wildblue.net coal miner

          SAMURAI,

          The English word “church” began to come into use in the Middle Ages, some time before the 12th century. The Wycliffe translation (1395) used the word “church” (chirche), but for instance Tyndale (1525) did not. Tyndale properly translated ekklêsia as “congregacion” (sic). And, as was mentioned, he used the word “church” (chirche) only twice, in Acts 14:13 and 19:37 which both refer to buildings connected to idol-worship.

          • http://marcum@wildblue.net coal miner

            Samurai,

            Hey stupid that website is not a atheist video,it is what Ben Franklin and Tom Jefferson quoted.

          • http://naver sook young

            Coal dungger and rob are the biggest morons on this site. Did you even look at the site I posted? How can’t you get any truer than the historian that gives daily guides and has to know everything about the Capitol Building? Here’s the site again, morons.
            http://www.youtube.con/watch?v=w-DzDCe5u3y
            How can Jefferson be a deist when he attended church in the Capitol Building every Sunday and even had the Marine Corps band play the music for the services every Sunday, morons?
            “I am a real Christian, that is to say, a disciple of the doctrines of Jesus.” Thomas Jefferson.
            “I have always said, and will always say, that studious perusal of the sacred wolume will make us better citizens.” Thomas Jefferson.
            The sacred volume is the Bible, of course.
            There’s another bit or evidence that rules out Jefferson as a deist. Oh, let me give you the sites.
            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yTeb-tkas
            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=haQgfb5Q0Mc
            Why would Jefferson sign the Enabling Acts of 1802 if he was a deist? The Enabling Acts made it possible for states to be admitted to the union from the Northwest Territory. Ohio was the first. But the acts said the states had to go by all precepts of the Northwest Ordinance of 1789. One of the precepts was:
            “Religion, morality, and knowledge, being necessary to good government and the happiness of mankind, schools and the means of education shall be forever encouraged.” George Washington. This would mean prayers in school, Bible studies (though they may be voluntary), and Bible classes. Why did the libs cut ethics classes from our schools? That’s also a provision. I challenge you to answer my questions and not with some left wing, atheist video. At least I’ve given you one of the top historians in the U.S. as a source. The gauntlet lies at your feet morons. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

          • Robert Smith

            sook brings up George Washington again.

            From: http://www.virginiaplaces.org/religion/religiongw.html
            “Washington gives us little in his writings to indicate his personal religious beliefs. As noted by Franklin Steiner in “The Religious Beliefs Of Our Presidents” (1936), Washington commented on sermons only twice. In his writings, he never referred to “Jesus Christ.” He attended church rarely, and did not take communion – though Martha did, requiring the family carriage to return back to the church to get her later.”

            “When trying to arrange for workmen in 1784 at Mount Vernon, Washington made clear that he would accept “Mohometans, Jews or Christians of any Sect, or they may be Atheists.” Washington wrote Lafayette in 1787, “Being no bigot myself, I am disposed to indulge the professors of Christianity in the church that road to heaven which to them shall seem the most direct, plainest, easiest and least liable to exception.”

            Washington was a STAUNCH supporter of public education.

            If he were in America in that same spirit I’m sure he would support universal health care.

            Rob

          • Richard Pawley

            According to the Bible the ‘church’ is not a denomination but all the people of God who have accepted His great gift of salvation through His sons’ sacrifice. There have been visions of ministers who have said that after the dollar dies and the economy collapses that ‘the church’ will be as it was in the first century. It (we, the people) will meet in homes, not in big fancy buildings. Gasoline will be unaffordable and people will not be able to travel far in any event so that will be logical. How far down the road that is I do not know but there are many who believe those now living will see this.

        • Robert Smith

          samurai says: “A church that recognizes gay marriage isn’t a real Christian church.”

          I submit that any “church” that offers such violence and hatred as the one you apparently belong to isn’t the christian one.

          Jesus was apparently a loving god, although his daddy sure made a mess of things with the floods and destroying cities. Maybe all christanity is bad and should be stomped out as you advocate for the muslums. Ah! Why not follow YOUR advice and go to the front lines and go kill some muslums. After all they are still POed about those crusades.

          Then the rest of us can live in peace. You are welcome to join us. In face PLEASE join the rest of humanity in peace. Why keep the hate going? You work so hard at it. How can that be christanity?

          BTW, the suggestion of violence was simply a reflection of the right’s own advocacy and can be considered sarchaism. But then ain’t the great christian mottow, “Do onto others…” Seems like they’ve forgotten a bunch of it.

          Rob

          • Richard Pawley

            The floods and destroyed cities as you say, were justice. God is all loving but he is also all just. He will only tolerate evil, sin, injustice, so long. He created us and all that is. He gave us rules to live by and all ancient religions have rules similar to the ten commandments. Do you have any idea how big our Universe is? Just our little galaxy is 30,000 parsecs across, and the nearest life equal to ours is a thousand light years away. Just a few days or a few months travel in Star Trek or Star Wars but that small distance just a hundredth of the way across just our own galaxy would take well over half a million years to travel if you had a space ship that could travel over a million miles an hour, and our galaxy is just one of billions that stretch for 14 gigaparsecs out there, distances that cannot even be conceived except by those much smarter than you and I. The point is that God has put it into each man’s inner being that He exists. You may not know Him or know that He is knowable or even know His name or how you can know Him but to say He doesn’t exist is just rebellion or ignorance. “The fool says in his heart, ‘there is no God’” it says in the same Bible that it says to call no man a fool. It also says that even the Prince of Darkness, Satan, leader of millions and maybe billions of demons “believes in God, and trembles.” You are of course free to follow whatever false gods you choose or no god but you hurt only yourself, and if you convince any weak minds (as Lucifer did among the non-physical beings) then your suffering will ultimately be far greater when you eventually come to the realization of what you could have had and rejected. The description of hell that Dr. George Ritchie saw in 1943 is just a tiny part of it but it will suffice to show that it is a place of torment that no rational person would want to be, and no one goes there accept by their own choice. Check it out if you dare:
            http://www.near-death.com/ritch.html and there are quite a few others that God has provided for skeptical men of this generation to learn of. He’s even revealed the future destruction of Los Angeles and NYC through different people and different sources so you will have more cities to complain about being destroyed but until you come down off your high horse and realize that there is value in all men and every one has something to offer, then you are just fighting the wind with your comments here. Sad, really sad!

  • FEDUP

    It is unconstitutional for people to die for this country? this is a disgrace.

    • Richard Pawley

      If every Christian, quasi-Christian, pro-Christian, or anyone who even favors Jesus, Yahweh, the Bible, or the many beliefs of the founding fathers, our entire Jewish Christian heritage from Leif Erikson to those who landed in Virginia in 1607 (and the very first thing that they did when the first small boat reached shore was erect a cross and claim this land for Jesus Christ), well, if all those people refused to serve a country that no longer cares about them or what they believe, then we wouldn’t have to worry about copying the demise of the Roman Empire, debauching our money and spreading ourselves to thin all over the world, because our military would be only one quarter of the size it is now. If every red blooded, God fearing American who believes what Jesus said when he said, “Ask and you shall receive” needs to cry out to our heavenly father that He would take action and work HIS WILL, what He knows is best, not what we think is best, on all the land, then things would change for the better. The atheist Marxist and ultimately anarchist philosophy that permeates the land, the ACLU, and the educational system of this land for nearly half a century now, and longer in some cases, is a stench that rises to the third heaven that St. Paul mentions in the Bible and is an affront to the living God. He has given us the power of prayer to change our government, our lives, our country, the world itself. The Bible indicates that the world will ultimately succumb to the evil forces and be destroyed just as has happened to most advanced civilizations in the universe as He revealed to me over seven years ago and which I put in the Epilogue of my autobiography LEAVING SOUTH CAROLINA (answering the question once and for all “is there intelligent life in the universe?) BUT THIS DOES NOT HAVE TO HAPPEN ON OUR WATCH AND DURING OUR LIVES OR THE LIVES OF OUR CHILDREN OR OUR CHILDREN’S CHILDREN. Every frustrated, fed up, disgusted believer, need only pray, believing, every time they read of odious decisions like this, or at least every day, and God will hear from heaven and things will happen. Look at all the prayers said last year and look at all the new people in Congress. If all those who prayed then will continue to pray, that GOD’S WILL be done in our body politic, then things will happen, those who have hindered freedom in our nation will change, or they will retire, or they will die, and a hundred other things you could not have dreamed of, and things will get better, although they will probably get much worse, for a season. The tripling of prices of things we actually use is not something I made up, it was revealed to me. That is why I can be assured of it because I know WHO revealed it. The atheists will laugh but if they want to get on board the ARK it is their choice, not like it was in ancient times when they were all swept away when the vapor cloud that apparently covered the earth collapsed and flooded the planet. This is not a game although to many in the administration it is. We are dealing with human lives and souls and the only way to improve things is up to believers, those who care enough to pray for our leaders, our form or government, our hard won truths. Those who call themselves Christian but who do not pray for our nation, our military, our lawgivers, and every facet of our politically correct but declining world, will have no one but themselves to blame. Even the Pope in Rome came out last month and said that he fears for the world as we seem to be repeating the demise of the Roman Empire, something I said five years ago in my first book. The complete text of his message was only out there for a week or two and apparently has been taken off the Vatican web-site recently but it’s out there in cyberspace I’m sure. Those who believe in truth, justice, what used to be called “The American Way” need to stand together, regardless of their regional or denominational beliefs. “United We Stand, Divided We Fall!” I did not call my last book, THE LAST DAYS OF THE LATE GREAT UNITED STATES because I thought it was cute but because it could well describe what the next decade or two will bring us if we don’t wake up and fight with the spiritual weapons that St. Paul speaks of. I know some believer’s have been praying and last November’s results show that but more is needed. We have got to start reducing the size of government or it will expand until it collapses. The never increasing debt of the federal government and the state governments and even city governments MUST BE REDUCED, not expanded or the results will be the big inflation the owners of the FED want. In their blindness they don’t seem to realize that they will be hurting too when gas or milk is ten dollars a gallon or worse and if they keep creating dollars out of thin air pretty soon no one will want them, just as many throughout the world are doing their best to reject now. An executive at GE reminded me recently that we have $365 Billion dollars worth of gold in the US Treasury at $1400 an ounce, more than anyone on earth, BUT THAT IS JUST A TINY FRACTION OF THE MONEY THAT THE 111TH CONGRESS SPENT in the past two years. Gold would have to be over $53,000 an ounce to equal what we already owe and the FED wants us to borrow even more money from them and raise the national debt even more. Hard times are coming no matter what we do at this point so let us do what is best for all, not just for the banks and the politicians who got us into this mess. Our nation has been like a fine wine that has added to the good and the freedom of the world but now we are at the point of turning this precious 1776 vintage into a wine vinegar, still usable but a far cry from the freedoms we once had. Pray, vote, get involved, however you can. I do not know how much time we have. May God bless all who read this.

      • Teresa

        Very well put!

        • Richard Pawley

          Thank you Teresa! I just calculated that during Nancy Pelosi’s four year reign as Speaker of the House she probably spent more money than any woman in history: 14 TIMES THE VALUE OF ALL THE GOLD IN THE US TREASURY, if gold is $1400 an ounce. Of course she didn’t do it alone but future historians (if we still have those) may point to her reign as the straw that broke the camel’s back. Since we have at least twice as much gold as any other nation we will likely take the entire world economy down with us when and if all our incessant borrowing and spending cause our economy to collapse. Of course, I truly hope I am wrong along with all the others who have studied what has been going on for years. May God help us!

        • http://naver samurai

          Richard I can say only one thing and that’s
          HOOOOOOOOOOORRRRRRRRRRAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHH!
          Keep up the good fight, fellow patriot! FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

  • FEDUP

    sorry I meant IS IT

  • bear

    Not at all surprised to see something else moronic coming out of Californicate. It is a real shame. People must return to God if they are to receive his blessing. The Godless and the unholy will perish from the face of the earth. The cross is the symbol representing Christ’s sacrifice, that we may have forgivness through him. That ultimate sacrafice should never pass before any man’s judgement. Has this same judge driven the highways of this country and seen the many crosses which have been placed along it’s shoulders? What do those crosses repesent? Are they too unconstitutional? Does this same judge intend to remove all of them? I think the families who lost a loved one at that spot along that road or highway would surely rise up against such a ruling but the cross that stands in one spot and honors the death of many is not worth rising up for? War is an ugly thing but not the ugliest. The decayed state of mind that thinks nothing is worth fighting for is far uglier. This judge and his ruling must be overturned.

  • Ted

    You guys all get so defensive about your Christian crosses etc. What if someone built a giant 43-foot Muslim crescent moon on that war memorial? You’d throw a shit-fit over that. Or how about a giant 43-foot Jewish Star of David or a Menorah or something. Do you get the point? That War Memorial stands for ALL soldiers of ALL beliefs who fought and died for this country. NOT just the goddamn Christians, for god’s sake! Get it thru your thick Republican skulls!!!!

    • JKO

      Actually I would defend that right as well as long as it was for Muslim / Jewish soldiers. I would do the same for any religion. And yes I am a Christian. See, God did not force me to become a Christian and I will not force others. I will discuss with respect that I am right. Please do not try and put everyone into the same box. That is biggotry and the biggest complaint I hear against Christians is that we are boggots.

      • JKO

        Oh BTW I do put up a Menorah in my classroom and as soon as I can find Kwanza atuff I can affor I will do that as well. If Islam was part of this I would have theirs out too. And NO I am NOT a liberal, I just want my kids to have all sides not just my personal one.

        • JKO

          oops, should have been stuff and afford

        • isk of stupid sh t

          You need Help & please put your helement back on its for your own good

          • JKO

            and…..

        • Karolyn

          And that’s as it should be.

      • hflashman

        JKO..so you’re saying all soldiers in that cemetary are christian?

    • Joey

      Yes boy, we get it, your an ass. Get this boy (and I use the word “boy” very loosely) you didn’t mention what religion you were, assuming of cause that you have a religion but let me guess, your either a Muslim or an atheist, either way your still a dumb ass. So you think all Christians are damned by God. That of cause is your opinion, but it is you and your dumb ass Muslim/atheist pals that are damned. Just wondering, were you born a dumb ass or did you have to develop it throughout you 10 years on this earth. No matter really, either way doesn’t change the fact the your a loud mouth stupid ass .

    • John

      Ted,
      How many muslims fought in WWI or WWII, or for that matter how many of them are founding fathers of our Country???????

      • http://naver samurai

        NONE!

        • HFlashman

          Samurai…wanna bet?

          • Richard Pawley

            If there were even as many as five Muslims who fought in WWII I would be surprised but don’t worrry they are one of the fastest growing groups in this nation. Some 45,000 have even sneaked into our nation from Mexico according to current estimates (based on the one to two thousand that have been apprehended). One outfit in Mexico won’t even bother bringing Hispanics across the border anymore because the Muslims pay ten times as much for the service.

          • http://naver samurai

            Actually some of them did fight and die while helping Hitler’s Vermacht. Like Abdul Nasar and Anwar Sadat, two presidents of the nation of Egypt. Sorry, but we’re not counting enemy combatants. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

          • Curtis

            You talk about World War One and World War Two???? When did America get off its isolationist chicken sh!t ass and get involved in WW1 and WW2. I got news for you WW1 started in 1914… America showed up when? World War Two started in 1939… when did America show up? Have any of you morons seen Lawrence of Arabia? Those were Arabs fighting with the British in WW1… and there were considerably more than five of them. Do you know how many Muslim countries fought with the Allies against Rommel in North Africa?

          • Richard Pawley

            Sorry, Curtis, I thought we were talking about Muslims who fought for the United States as members of our military. The inadequacy of words!

    • USNpops

      You might be surprised to know there is a Muslim monument to be placed where the brave people took down the plane on 9/11.

      The plans as presented and approved are for a large Crescent shaped memorial, with a sorta star shaped pond in the appropriate place.

      And would, or perhaps will, not a Muslim structure built in the vicinity of Ground Zero not be a religious symbol of great porportion.

      All these under the non existant “Freedom of Religion” and “Separation of Church and State” Please note the non existant phrase.

    • Sandra Lee Smith

      Does it honestly MATTER what the symbol used is; if it’s presented with respect for the fallen? If it’s erected with love to honor them? In this nation any single group of fallen soldiers may include Christians, Jews, Buddhists, and Muslims as well as Atheists or others who have yet different belief systems, or even NONE whatsoever. Does it hurt or offend those honored dead that someone took the TIME and CARE to spend the money and time to erect some structure to honor and remember their sacrifice, even if it’s not necessarily one they put much stock in, in life? Isn’t the POINT that those who fell in service to this nation be REMEMBERED with HONOR, not forgotten? And isn’t all this hullaballoo over HOW they’re remembered and honored just so much tempest in a teapot of selfish and foolish pride or whatever? Focus on the PURPOSE rather than the symbol erected, and you might see the picture a bit more clearly.

    • Fred Rehders, Sr.

      Well Ted, I’m not a Christian, nor am I a Republican, but I am a Veteran and I have no problem with crosses, Christmas trees, manger scenes, or Santa Clause. I am not threatened by any of these. I don’t like the idea that high schools, all across our country, play varsity football on Friday nights and universities play on Saturdays, both of which are holy days for Jews, Muslims and a few million Christians. So let’s not whine about such mundane things, when our attention should be directed toward more positive pursuits to aleviate some of the misery, pain and suffering that abounds, all around us.

      HFLASHMAN disrespects most of us when he fails to capitalize G-D, or Christianity, but he does make some very valid points and should not be dismissed, because he dissed.

      Bitter Libertarian obviously doesn’t stand on solid Constitutional ground with her rant and while many are marginal, hers can be dismissed, in it’s entirity.

      • HFlashman

        Pardon me? Because I don’t capitalize god means I’m showing disrespect? LOL ….. should I captalize gods? I’d say those who insist their religious beliefs are the ONLY ones which count for anything are disrespecting everyone not a member of thir cult…and yes, by definition, christianity is a cult.

        • Richard Pawley

          Has it not occurred to you that among all the fools gold men find that occasionally a gold miner finds real gold, or among all the vegetables in the marketplace some of it is natural and not genetically engineered, or among all the vitamins and supplements sold, some of them may have amazing medicinal or health benefits? Likewise among all the ‘gods’ promoted and beliefs expounded on that there is at least one god who is GOD? I can understand a person saying they don’t know the truth, but to say that there is no truth, or that all so-called ‘truths’ are the equal, is as Spock would say, illogical! Even our keenest minds are searching for a what has been called “A Theory of Everything!” Those who have a personal relationship with Jesus Christ don’t know everything but they know what they need to know, and they will have forever to learn more.

          • Karolyn

            Richard said: but they know what they need to know, and they will have forever to learn more.” As will we all, because we are all energy, and energy never dies. The spirit, whether labeled Christian or not, lives forever; and I believe can choose to come back into the physical plane should it desire.

          • Richard Pawley

            Well, Karolyn, we can believe many things but we can’t always prove them. While I can’t prove to you that Jesus is the unique only begotten son of God, the only one who came down from the highest or ‘third’ Heaven as St. Paul describes it in the Bible, and took the penalty for what you might call ‘karma’ but which Christians call sin, but if you were sincerely interested I could, perhaps, lead you to how you could prove it to yourself. Many have come to know Jesus personally. When you know something you no longer have to believe it, but faith is a gift from God and not everyone has it. If one is limited to just logic then the journey is more difficult. You or someone said, we are all sons and daughters of God, but it’s more like potential sons and daughters, until we are adopted into the family of God (which is what Christianity is truly all about). The spirit of man is eternal but there is a great difference between eternal life and eternal death, or even just eternal existence. Even the Bible talks about trade in human beings, and souls, around the end of days.
            Additionally there are many spirits that are not God and their greatest pleasure is to destroy humans, often by misleading them and pretending they are God. This is the source of all cults whether they be large groups of people or a handful. Jim Jones comes to mind. Additionally the Bible even warns of driving evil spirits out of a man but if he is not filled with the spirit of God, other far worse can come in, so being a lukewarm or mediocre Christian is not something you ever want to be. Better to continue as you are rather than become a lukewarm Christian who doesn’t appreciate the great price that Jesus paid to give us a clean slate, and on top of that Jesus even said of those who misused their new found awareness for personal gain were in grave danger and for them “it would be better if they had never been born but had a millstone put around their neck and were cast into the sea.” While there may be options that most don’t know about you are only increasing them by learning about what a Christian really is and not being turned off by some who call themselves Christians. I could tell you things you would not believe that Jesus has done for people right here in the USA and in the 20th Century but they would just be unbelievable words. However should you ever decide you really want to know the truth God will not hide it from you. Just be aware that any spirit that cannot say “Jesus is Lord” is from the dark side, no matter what else they might tell you.

  • http://Cox Donald Meabon

    The 9th circuit is a laugh,a bunch of fruit-cakes or just “fruits”….

  • boomer45

    Enough is enough. To all like minded USMC, Navy, Army, Airforce and Coast Guard, active duty, retired or currently “unassigned” troops who believe in the oath that we took: Let’s go to San Diego, set up an armed perimeter around this sacred ground and hope they come to take down the cross. I currently live in Georgia. I will drive to Ca., revisit Pendleton, and then stand the First Watch….and if necessary, camp there until the Supreme Court strikes down this anti-American decision. The Country I love and grew up in (born in 1945), has been under attack…….it’s time to fight back. Semper Fi

    • http://personalliberty.com Eva Lindsay

      Our country is under attack, not just from the outside, but from within. A fruit cake in the highest office. That is only the begining.
      ACLU is tearing us apart from with in.
      To help the
      ACLU we have judges with no morals. Lawyer who have lost their brains, what they had. Preacher who are ticking there ears ( from the word.)Saying what people want to hear, rather than the WORD.
      I am born again , American, proud of it. Family of vets. Jesus lover

      • Richard Pawley

        Eva, as I have said elsewhere the key to change is prayer. God has given us the power to change not just our own lives, but even the laws of the land. In fact we need to pray that the new members of congress do not get seduced by all that is in Washington, including some of the establishment politicians of both parties. They are not all bad but they are certainly not all good either. Prayer is the key or as the Bibles says, “the fervent prayer of the righteous man (or woman) availith much”. One of the best and shortest books, especially for VETS but really for anyone (it’s only 106 pages long and available in dozens of languages) is an actin thriller of sorts entitled PRISON TO PRAISE by Chaplain Merlin Carothers. It’s an action thriller that is simply amazing and I even knew one of the women mentioned in this 30 year old book. If you haven’t read it treat yourself to a copy available on eBay or in most Christian bookstores. You won’t be sorry. God bless you.

  • http://PersonalLibertyDigest Linda

    the judge is a suckass liberal what do you expect from dimwits

    • hflashman

      Linda..since you are referring to “the judge’, I assume you speak about the judge who decided that cross should be kept as is. Since it was a three judge panel deciding the appeallate issue. So you’re stating the judge who made the initial decision was a liberal … maybe…maybe not.

      And FYI..I agree the judge made the wrong call.

      • http://naver samurai

        Actually, the judge made the right call. You’re just p***** off that your side lost and has been losing since 2009! FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

        • http://naver samurai

          I meant wrong call.

          • Robert Smith

            I suspect a shrink would have a field day with you samurai.

            Rob

          • http://naver samurai

            Isn’t that what my wife already told you, moron? FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

          • Robert Smith

            Some have expressed that there is no “wife” but that it gives you twice the shot at being nasty.

            Just a though about what others have posted.

            For Goddess and Country

            Rob

          • http://naver samurai

            Been married 25 years, so how long have you been with your boyfriend moron? FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

    • Karolyn

      My, aren’t we articulate?

  • Ted

    And Samurai, (offensive words removed) all you have to do is open up the Constitution and read Amendment One of our cherished Bill of Rights. It CLEARLY establishes separation of church and state. I quote:
    “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging etc etc.”

    Why are you challenging the judge to show you this principle? All you have to do is open up the Constitution and read it for yourself!

    • JKO

      Sorry Ted this is saying the governmnet cannot be involved in religion one way or the other. The Founders actually held church services in the Capitol building – including non-Christian services. If you know history the main reason that many of the first people to come to America did so was because they did not want to be forced into the King’s religion in England.
      Also few hospitals, universities, and other charities would have been established if what you say is true. Government would not have allowed it… which you can see by the fact that so many organizations cannot help people as much as they once did because people have interpreted the clause your way.
      Let me encourage you to read the entire Constitution in one sitting and try and keep your biases (we ALL have them) at bay. Our Founders were trying to keep government to a minimum – there to protect our rights and defend us, that’s about it.

      • David Eiker

        Thank you for reinstilling some faith in the American people for me. I thought I was the only one left who realized the true meaning of separation of church and state. It has been so skewed for so long, most people don’t really know what it means. The government needs to butt out . . . of all of it, realizing of course that the laws of our country, and many others, came from cannon law, or church law. There’s something for the atheists to put in their pipe and smoke. Or, I suppose they would like it better if we just did without laws against murder, theft, etc. Hmm . . . sounds kind of like “Thou shalt not kill” or “Thou shalt not steal”

        • Sandra Lee Smith

          There are a few of us left who get that part of the 1at Amendment the way it was meant; as opposed to the way the ACLU reads and interprets it. But it is a relief to run into fellow believers now and again.

          • Richard Pawley

            Don’t forget Sandra that the ACLU was originally founded with support from the Soviet Communists under Lenin as a way to bring the USA into the fold of International Socialism or Communism. An organization that has successfully fought them even in the Supreme Court (and won) is the ACLJ (the American Center for Law and Justice). Check them out if you want to support a good outfit that is trying to stop Sharia Law from becoming the Law of the Land here and many other good causes. They support freedom mostly and are David compared to the goliath of the ACLU, but they usually win.

      • Robert Smith

        JKO claims: “If you know history the main reason that many of the first people to come to America did so was because they did not want to be forced into the King’s religion in England.”

        Or they wanted to set up their own totalitarian version. Remember the “Puritans” among others.

        Rob

        • http://naver samurai

          Remember how the Puritans were persecuted in England so they came to America to practice their religion moron? Rob and coal dungger are the biggest morons on this site! If you go into the Capitol Building, you’ll see a painting of the Pilgrims at Plymouth Colony. They are sitting around a person who is reading the Bible. I guess God was with them and helped them come to this country to worship him. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

          • http://marcum@wildblue.net coal miner

            samurai,

            The Puritans stole indians blind and committed genocide on a scale unheard of.Most of the tribes don’t exist today.We got Christianity to thank for it.Like I say you are a joke.

          • Robert Smith

            But the Puritans were christian.

            Rob

          • Richard Pawley

            Some of the people on this site are living in the past. It reminds me of one of the Muslims we rescued in the former Yugoslavia who was quite bitter and kept saying “Do you know what they did to us?” and when he went into a description of atrocities was asked “When did this all happen?” The answer given with great remorse as if had been the previou week was, “600 YEARS AGO!” That’s not living in the NOW, which is the only place God can be found. Events lead to other events. If Noah had refused to believe God then none of us would be here today, or if you prefer “If the Puritans had not escaped from Europe and come here, it is highly unlikely that any of us would be here to debate these things. If you are not dealing in the here and now then you are not dealing with reality.

          • http://naver samurai

            Coal dungger, the only joke here is you. What proof and evidence can you provide the proves atheism is accurate and correct? Wrong again moron! I don’t see their pastors marching people to kill Native Americans after a church service, do you? Remember, some people go to church and say they are Christians, but are only in name and not deed. Learn the difference before you step on yourself again. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

            P.S. You will apologise for that remark about my wife. Considering your intellect is much lower than hers.

      • http://naver sook young

        Very true! There were up to 4 different churches there and had up to 2000 members. It was once the largest church in America. Thank you.

        Sook Young
        Wife of the Samurai

    • http://naver samurai

      JKO and David are right, Ted you moron! You tell me where it specifically states separation of church and state. It isn’t there! Why do you lib, atheist morons always want to try to get this nation farther and farther away from our Christian founding? Is it because you are all going to burn and you want to take as many as you can with you? Gee, that kind of sounds like Satan doesn’t it? Remember the SCOTUS case, The Church of the Holy Trinity vs. U.S. 1892. The SCOTUS ruled: “This is a Christian Nation.” FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

      • Richard Pawley

        In many cases it is ignorance. This is the second and in some cases the third generation where Marxists have erased much of our true history, or de-emphasized some facets and over emphasized others. People are often shocked when they decide they want to find out for themselves and dig really deep to see what really went on back then. Lies were being promoted even in the 1850′s so it’s no wonder that many today don’t know the truth about our origins. One historian with two degrees in history was hired by a commentator on Fox News to verify various historical facts and she was shocked saying, “I’ve never heard any of these things”. Up until that time she thought she was a well educated person. I myself was surprised to learn of Nazi summer camps on Long Island and to see an old film of some 20,000 uniformed Nazi’s gathering in Madison Square Gardens in NYC before I was born. We all know what B.S. means and M.S. is often just more of it, and PhD unfortunately often means “Piled Higher and Deeper”. One of my successful brothers walked out of a PhD program after several months. He stood up in class, closed his book put it down on the desk, and said, “This crap has no relevance to anything in the known universe” and then he went out and got a good job and has had them ever since.

        • Robert Smith

          Richard says: “People are often shocked when they decide they want to find out for themselves and dig really deep to see what really went on back then…”

          Yup, they used to be creationists.

          Rob

          • http://naver samurai

            No actually it was when Darwin refuted everything he had written as a lie and couldn’t be proven true. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

          • http://marcum@wildblue.net coal miner

            Samurai,

            This dismay is shared by Darwin. ‘These people claim the world is less than 10,000 years old which is wrong by a great many orders of magnitude. Earth is several billion years old. These individuals are not just silly, they are colossally, staggeringly ignorant. I am sure sense will prevail, however.’It fits you to tee.

          • Richard Pawley

            Well, Coal Miner, by “these people” I assume you are referring to the millions of Christians in this country and the more than a billion on this planet. Well, I’m a follower of Jesus and my Bible says that to God a thousand years is but the blinking of the eye. That by the way is about .11 hundreds of a second (the time it takes an eye to blink). The Bible also says that God created the world in six days with man being the last. Science agrees with the sequence of man being last, but there have been many debates on how old the earth is with the most common belief that the earth is over 4.5 Billion years old. Funny thing, if you take .11 of a second and divide that into six days and then multiply that times 1,000 years you come up with just over 4.5 Billion years, so it seems to me that the Bible could be saying he earth is just 4.5 Billion years old (for those who can see it that is). The amazing thing is the Bible is filled with things like this but many are simply not interested. It’s their loss.

      • http://marcum@wildblue.net coal miner

        samurai,

        Hey stupid did I say anything about atheism?I am agnostc.

  • http://purple50.org Gregory Zorn

    It seems to me that the 1st Amendment to the Constitution states that
    “Congress shal make no law respecting the establishment of religion”,
    now here is the important part “or prohibiting the free exersise thereof”. So I am always amased when the courts restrict or “prohibit” the “free exercise” of anything religus. How the “seperation therory” servives is beond me.

    G. Zorn
    purple50.org

  • Judy

    Another anti-Christian, anti-America, anti-Military socialist/communist/marxist decision coming out of COMMUNIST CALIFORNIA. What else would anyone expect out of the so many severely mentally ill (this is the nazi pelosi state) anti-social degenerates populating this earth? Time for the major big earthquake to hit communist california and send it into the deepest sea! Actually, it is past time!!!!!

    • Richard Pawley

      Well, Judy, be aware that there is a move in congress for us taxpayers to bail out the three largest Democratic states that are deepest in debt and let the taxpayers pay for all they squandered. I say NO WAY. If we support everyones debt habit there will be no way we will every rise from the future ashes of where we are headed ecoomically. By the way don’t wish the Big One on California. It’s coming and our scientists say it’s overdue. I go into some detail on this in my autobiography, LEAVING SOUTH CAROLINA.

    • Robert Smith

      How christian of you Judy. To wish so much death as California slides into the Pacific.

      But, I guess you are looking at the flooding of the world by your brutal god, or maybe on a smaller scale stomping out a couple of cities.

      I don’t see how anyone can follow such a brutal leader, but they did in Germany too.

      Rob

      • http://naver samurai

        Yeah and just think rob, Hitler wasn’t a Christian, but he was an atheist. I guess that pill will be a little hard for you to swallow. Though I hear you like swallowing. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

        • Robert Smith

          samurai, when are you ever going to present us with a real fact?

          From: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adolf_Hitler%27s_religious_views

          “Historian Joachim Fest wrote, “Hitler knew, through the constant invocation of the God the Lord (German: Herrgott) or of providence (German: Vorsehung), to make the impression of a godly way of thought.”[8] He used his “ability to simulate, even to potentially critical Church leaders, an image of a leader keen to uphold and protect Christianity,” according to biographer Ian Kershaw. Kershaw adds that Hitler’s ability also succeeded in appeasing possible Church resistance to anti-Christian Nazi Party radicals.[9] For example, on March 23, 1933, he addressed the Reichstag: “The National Government regards the two Christian confessions (i.e. Catholicism and Protestantism) as factors essential to the soul of the German people. … We hold the spiritual forces of Christianity to be indispensable elements in the moral uplift of most of the German people.”

          He may not have been a christian (though he remained a catholic until his death) but he sure believed in using them for control, just as you apparently do with your believe or die nonsense.

          Rob

          • http://naver samurai

            NO he wasn’t. That’s one of the favorite lies told by atheists. He may have used the church to get votes for him, just like Obama bin Laden did in 2008. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

      • Richard Pawley

        Only Satan and his followers think of God as brutal because he received justice in being kicked out of Heaven so I presume you are joking. I’m reminded of someone that a friend asked me to talk with over 30 years ago. He wanted to talk about God but when I tried to talk with him he just wanted to argue. He was obviously drunk. I talked with him for a while but it was useless. I was puzzled by his interest in God while obviously drunk. My friend told me that his friend had no use for God while sober, but when drunk that is all he was interested in discussing. I seem to recall that I talked with him twice but he was drunk again and no matter what I said he had an excuse or something that he countered with that was off-the wall or different than what anyone would expect of someone who was trying to learn. Suddenly the Spirit of the Lord, spoke to my inner mind and told me I was arguing with an evil spirit and that it was useless. I was wasting my time. Apparently when this person was drunk he was ‘inhabited’ by an evil spirit. Don’t know why I thought of that just now as it’s been years since I thought of it and over 30 years since it happened.

  • boomer45

    To TED: I typically don’t reply to Communist/Marxist/Statist or other ignorant un-American self indulgent fools as they are beyond logic or reason. I make an exception in your case. Let me guess, you went to Berkeley on your parents tab, never took the oath or served in the Military, work for the local State or Federal Government and owe your ability to run your “jib” to your betters and your income to taxpayers who actually work for a living. I suspect you will also be first in line with your hand out for a Federal bailout when California goes belly-up. I’ll bet you even learned Spanish.

    • Ted

      Boomer,
      Since you assummed so much about me, I will venture an assumption about you. From your DOB, my guess is that you are a Vietnam Vet. I am a Gulf War Vet. The 100-Hour War. Desert Shield/Desert Storm under then Defense Secretary Dick Chaney and Commander-in-Chief George Herbert Walker Bush.

      I do not denigrate you. Why do you denigrate me? Just because we may disagree, you call a fellow vet names and insult me? Why?

      • Ted

        Boomer,
        And while I’m at the keyboard, I would request that you re-read the original news story above. You want to drive from Georgia to California and belligerantly fight those who will take down your cross? Don’t jump to those conclusions, Boomer. I quote from the news story:
        “The appeals court did not order that the cross be removed, but instead” sought from the original trial judge what modifications were necessary to include war veterans like me who have fought (and those who have died) who were NOT of the Christian faith.
        So please, before you start re-arming yourself to the teeth, get the court decision into perspective, and we can all act accordingly.

        • John

          Ted,
          It’s simple, I respect your service to this Great Country, but your view on the subject is the minority.
          This Country was founded on Judeo-Christian principles, like it or not.

          • HFlashman

            Actually…the drafters of the Constitution made great efforts to keep any religious dogma or principles out of the basic foudation for rule in this nation. Live with it.

          • Richard Pawley

            John, there are many on the left who have been brainwashed by the ACLU and others for decades, generations even, and they would have to have enough interest to dig deep into the original documents to be convinced, as they simply cannot conceive that they have been deceived. I’ve always found it amusing (although it really isn’t funny) that the head of the Socialist Party of America said decades ago that he felt he had wasted his life because the Democratic Party had done all that he and the socialists had ever wanted. This still continues today but we will soon be broke and that will end. It is highly probably that taxes will be raised and benefits reduced just so we can survive and that is when the riots will begin. Keep out of NYC or any big city when that happens. When people are very hungry they usually have no interest in political debate.

          • Robert Smith

            No it wasn’t john.

            Can you show us any quotes from your bible in the Constitution?

            It begins: “We the PEOPLE,” not YOUR god or anything even close.

            Rob

          • http://naver samurai

            Do you know the real meaning of “We the People?” Of course not. Give us a site to shopw what you say is true. It sure doesn’t mean everyone living in the nation at the time. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

  • rhcrest

    i have no problem with anyone putting up a menorrah or ANY other religious symbol in a public place but i am sorry I DO have a problem with someone putting up a symbol of Islam in a public place as i would find it as offensive as a swastika or a symbol of the KKK. Islam is not truly a religion but a death cult which worships a known pedophile and freely practices pedophilia to this day. It needs to be defined as the cult that it is and outlawed in this country. Anyone who proseltyzes about Islam is committing treason as its governing law which is Sharia, is antithetical to our Constitution and our American way of life.

    • Sandra Lee Smith

      Not to put too fine a point on it, but you need to learn to differentiate between the RELIGION of Islam and the theocratic politico-legal system of Shariah, and have another run at the Mosaic laws in the books of Leviticus and Deuteronomy, before you make that judgment. AND you need to realize we’ve had Muslims SERVING IN our military honorably for decades, Muslims who took exactly the SAME oath to support and defend the Constitution against ALL enemies, foreign or domestic that I took over 40 years ago, and to whom it has the SAME meaning. Muslims who realize that our Constitution is actually healthier for Islam to be practiced under than Shariah. Maybe not a LOT of them, but they are out there. And we went down your road once before with those “Buddhist Japanese”, right after Pearl Harbor… well guess which unit in WWII was THE single most decorated for bravery in service to the American way? The 442nd, comprised almost entirely of Buddhist Japanese Eisei, the children born as first generation citizens of immigrants here. So maybe rethinking what makes a good American would help. You see an American isn’t of any particular racial sub group or religious background; rather it’s a person who has the spirit that’s embodied in our Declaration of Independence and Constitution engraved in his/her heart and mind, whether that person is an immigrant just off the boat, so to speak, or a multigenerational citizen of this land! I’ve known both those fresh here who are as strongly American as I am, and those who are multigenerational citizens who aren’t American at all, despite having been born here. In fact, the new arrivals who do have the spirit, are perhaps the most staunch defenders of the Constitution, because almost invariably they’ve come out of some oppressive regime and KNOW the value of what our Founding Fathers gave us, at such high cost to themselves. It doesn’t matter where they came from, what color they are, or how they pray, what matters is whether they HAVE that spirit or not!

      • Richard Pawley

        Actually there is only the difference between religious and non-religious Muslims. The theocratic politico-legal system of Sharia you seem to object to (as well you might) is held in regard by some 10 percent of Muslims world-wide, meaning that there are well over one hundred and ten million plus who hate the individual freedoms that our constitution grants us. Are there good honest Muslims, of course, but in Texas one Muslim father killed his two teenage daughters because they talked to boys in the mall, and another recently ran down his 20 year old daughter with a car because she was becoming to westernized. In New York a Muslim television station owner who produced a program to help bridge the gap between Muslims and others so they could learn more about each other, cut off the head of his wife when she could no longer take the abuse and wanted a divorce.
        What you say about legal immigrants is true, they tend to make outstanding Americans, I’ve known quite a few, but illegals far outnumber legals and just because someone takes an oath to defend the constitution doesn’t mean they believe it or mean it. The Koran says it is alright to lie to non-Muslims as they are considered inferior beings. The Major at Ft. Hood took an oath of allegiance years before he killed all his fellow soldiers. He was apparently fine until he got religious and then he went on his murderous rampage. My wife works with several Muslims and she says they are excellent people but they are not religious and even disagree with the idea of building a mosque near ground zero because they understand the meaning of it, that is understood in all the Muslim world as a sign of victory and conquest but not apparently in this country.
        I agree with you that “…an American isn’t of any particular racial sub group or religious background; rather it’s a person who has the spirit that’s embodied in our Declaration of Independence and Constitution engraved in his/her heart and mind…” but you are comparing tomatoes and apples when you bring up the 4,000 year old books of Leviticus and Deuteronomy. The primitive societies of that time are a far cry from today but the religious adherents who cut off a girls ears and nose because she tried to run away from her husband’s abuse LAST YEAR were Muslims, not followers of the Bible. She was brought over here and Americans paid for her to be operated on and partly restored. Or how about the governor of a major state in Pakistan who mentioned that the laws against blasphemy needed to be updated and he was shot more than a dozen times the week before last for saying it. His crime was defending a Christian woman who offered some Muslim laborers a drink of water as Jesus suggested but they refused because they considered it unclean, because she was a Christian. She tried to defend her religion so they gang raped her and now she is sentenced to death for blasphemy which the rapists said she was guilty of. I can assure you that if Christianity is driven out of the United States that Sharia will fill the vacuum and I do not think many will think that is an improvement. There is a strong movement to bring Sharia Law into this country and if that succeeds we will have the havoc that the UK is already having as Christianity wanes and Muslims are converting former churches into mosques and Sharia has been allowed to be the law of the land for Muslims over there. Thank God for the American Center for Law and Justice (ACLJ) which has opposed the ACLU all the way to the Supreme Court (and won) and which is also opposing the imposition of Sharia in this country.
        In my opinion Mormon’s have contributed far more to this land than Muslims have but we didn’t allow their territory, Utah, to become a state, until they renounced polygamy which they did (except for a few splinter groups). I guess we were ignoring that part about prohibiting religion then. Of course the ACLU would have opposed that too if they had been around then. Last month the leader of the the world’s Billion Catholics, the Pope, said that he fears for the future of the world. I said in my autobiography, LEAVING SOUTH CAROLINA, a few years ago that I feared for the United States. The reasons for both was that we seem to be duplicating the decline of the Roman Empire. I mentioned the moral decline but concentrated on the economic and political whereas he concentrated on the moral decline. Only if we return to God and the principles of the Constitution will we survive in any form that will be desirable. I know many are for a one world money and a one world government but the Constitution for this new world governance that our unions and our president and many in congress want does not have the freedoms that our Constitution has. Hopefully this won’t be for another 30 years or so but I have no idea. I say that all who are believers need to pray for all who are over us and who are making decisions that will affect us for the rest of our lives, whether it’s the rationed health care or the terrible inflation caused by a Treasury that is creating 70,000 MILLION DOLLARS out of thin air EACH MONTH. May God work His will in the lives of all those who are our leaders and our judges and may he relent on the punishment for this nation that seems to be headed our way.

        • AngReed

          Alright, if no one else will mention it I WILL. For being of someone all godly and high and mighty, posting all of your exacting e-sermons on here, you sure do like to make yourself look the televangelist by SELF PROMOTING YOUR FRIGGIN BOOKS! Yeah, you’re a semi famous author on religious garble… no one cares.

          • http://naver samurai

            [post removed, policy violation]

          • http://naver samurai

            [post removed for violating policy]

  • Tommy

    Ted what part of “prohibiting the free exercise thereof” don’t you understand? The First Amendment (Bill of Rights), in part, was to prevent the Federal government from establishing an official government religion or a theocracy. What’s a “dumb bastid”?

    • Ted

      Tommy,
      Your points are salient. However, to quote one of our Founding Fathers (John Adams) concerning our Bill of Rights in its entirety:

      These amendments are necessary in order “…to protect the minority from the tyranny of the majority.”

      In reading some of the comments herein from people like Edward and Boomer and Judy, can one NOT SEE that an angry majority truly DOES exist and spews language (and potential action) which denigrates the minority viewpoint?

      • Tommy

        Ted 2 quick points before I go to work. The founding fathers decided against a true democracy to prevent an angry majority from “running over” the minority; A representative republic was designed to be slow, to prevent emotionally charged issues from becoming the law of the land. Second point. Our country has become so polarized that over the past several decades the term “majority” has changed from liberal to conservative and back again several times. Each time the minority feels “violated” by the majority.

        • JKO

          Good point as well

        • Mac

          Tommy, to deviate for a moment from the ‘cross’ issue; what you said about pure democracy overrunning the minority, that is what the Democrats did with Obamacare – tried to rush the health bill through without thinking it over.

          As for the War Memorial Cross – the problem I see is that attorneys and judges are trying to say that anything that is displayed on government property, regardless of who placed the memorial, is the same as Congress passing a law in favor of that display. I don’t believe that is the correct interpretation. The Constitution says “Congress shall make no law…” If no law has been passed covering the display of memorial symbols, how can that be interpreted as making a law?

          • Tommy

            Mac, sorry for the late response. You are 110% right about Obama, who with a large majority in the House & Senate, allowed the Republicans (who won 47% of the votes in the last presidential election) no input whatsoever in this massive bill.
            I agree with your second point also. Congress should make no law to prevent a private person from erecting a religious symbol.

      • JKO

        And it is sights like this that these things are even said. I have not seen it on PBS, MSNBC, CNBC or CNN in the past 10 years. Only on FOX do I actually see honest debate between the two sides and they are anathema to liberals.
        And let me point out again that when Beck had 8-28 (I did not attend) it was peaceful and when they left the area was pristine – NO TRASH. Not true of 10-2-10. The place was a mess and the people were very disrespectful. And yes, I still defend their rights as well.

        • Karolyn

          Where did you hear that the Rally for Sanity was disrespectful and left a lot of trash. I watched online and it seemed to me like a whole lotta people having a really good time.

          • Sandra Lee Smith

            I saw the video footage of the mall at the tail end of that gathering; and it was FULL of trash and evidence of disrespect to the monuments there. I also saw footage of the mall near the tail end of the Beck rally and it wasn’t like that at all, people had policed the area after themselves before leaving. That leads me to agree with JKO on that score.

          • Richard Pawley

            Likewise Sandra, it was amazing to see the difference!

          • Robert Smith

            What video? Is there a link?

            Rob

  • David

    Good, christians are not the only ones living in this country. I’m sick of their religious crap being pushed on me.

    • JKO

      David, let’s talk about pushing. I have a cross that I like. When I lived in Oregon I was afraid to wear it because I was on temporary contract and not guaranteed a job the next year. I thought it was just me until I bagan talking to some student teachers who felt the same way.
      Whether we like it or not our country WAS founded on Judeo-Christian beliefs (so was Islam BTW – though I do not believe Allah and Yaweh are the same God). I should be able to wear my cross anywhere. If I was Jewish I should be able to wear the Star of David. As a Muslim I should be able to cover my head (but not the face when you are going for an ID card).
      Christians are suddenly scum of the Earth and you will not find many charities that do not have their origins in Christianity. I will even defend the rights of Nazi’s to display swasticas as long as it is relevant to where they are and it is done peacefully. I will also defend your right to say what you want. Why can’t you defend my right to be who I am. I do not ever try and push my beliefs.

      • isk of stupid sh t

        I dont & wont understand any of what spoos out of david mouth yes dave church is new here in america & it defends all the wrongful man & women of the USA & no when the pilgrims came here they certianly didnt belive in god they never had mass or anything close to it right & live & moruls back then were twisted & yes we have made change for the good of man kind stay out & away for christianity RIGHT!! It should be what do you think the fallen solidiers would want & yes dave they most likely while they were dying never prayed & never used the word GOD most of you people whinning about things like putting a cross in a cementry or area which represents war & soldiers you have big problems beliving in a way that is good is BAD? come-on wake the f ck UP & leave well enough alone & pick a battle to fight that makes this place a better place to be & yes I can see thats hard for the narrow minded people who have forgotten so much of what we where hey DAVE go to church you might learn something that would give you some peace HOMEY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

      • Karolyn

        I think that Christians have such a bad rap is because of the rigidity, proselytizing and hypocrasy that people see. Take for instance the preacher whose congregation pickets funerals of soldiers. Also, telling people that they are going to hell if they are not Christian is a bit off-putting. It’s always the bad people in any faction who get the most publicity. Like it or not, that’s where people get their opinions from. I also wanted to add that Allah is God, as are all of the names that have been used to portray God. God is God, no matter what one calls he/she/it.

        • hflashman

          Karolyn…I’m with your view as to why christians seem to be bad mouthed (I don’t think they are…but let’s say they are for the sae of this post). I don’t have anyone from Islam, Hindu, Tao, etc “in my face’ about “repent or go to hell” stuff. Nor do i see any other religion wear it on their sleeves as some sort of martyrdom. Heck…somehow the wacked Right wing came up with this fiction about a ‘war on XMas”…where did that come from?

          Read through these posts…and not one religion is so openly “believe in god or we all go the hell” as exemplified in the majority of these posts.

          Just think…they complain about Satanism … yet Satan is a christian creation, so one has to be christian to be a satan worshipper…figure that one out.

          Ah well….on to better things…

          • http://naver samurai

            You’re wrong again, as usual, moron! Every religion has a personification of good and of evil. The Greeks had Hades, the Egyptians had Set, Nosremen had Loki, the Hindus and Khali, etc. so how is Satan a Christian creation? One day Jesus is going to walk up behind you and jap slap you on the back of your head. You may believe that way about Christians, but did you also know that we are the most persecuted religion in the world? Just look at Sudan, Iraq, Iran, Egypt, Laos, China, etc. Many of us Christians are dying for our beliefs in God and Jesus and other religions aren’t. I guess that Satan feels that he already has these people’s souls comming to hell, so why take them out early? FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

          • http://marcum@wildblue.net coal miner

            hflashman,

            I had a conversation with the High Priestess of Joy of Satan a year ago and they got more morals than the so called Christians,for instance they are against murder,kiddy porn,animal cruelty and for the death penalty if you commit murder or rape.The High Priestess told me the worship of Satan is much older than the belief in Judaism or Christianity. According to them Satan in ancient times was worship as god or goddess of nature,justice, light and truth.He or she was the accuser in the Old Testament,not an evil being.In their religion Satan is portrayed as a beautiful Blonde headed blue eyed angel,not the Pan like goat creature. She said:they are against all forms of evil and people should stay away from so called other Satanic cults,they are evil.

            Their political beliefs; most of them are conservatives

            Most of them are Republicans

            They also share the same political beliefs of most Republicans,they are against liberalism and deficit spending.They said it will ruined the nation.

            Hflahman and Karolyn

            Check these people out,don’t worry they are harmless.

          • http://naver samurai

            Coal dungger is on the kool aid again. Your kind (coal dungger, rob, flushman, etc.) are what is hurting this country by taking us farther away from how we were founded. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

          • Robert Smith

            from samurai: “Many of us Christians are dying for our beliefs in God and Jesus and other religions aren’t. ”

            Really… Been to any witch burnings lately?

            Been to any crusades lately?

            BTW, when is the last time you talked to an American Indian as a christian (and you weren’t trying to convert them)?

            MOST religions prosicute and are prosicuted in return.

            Hmmmmm, what was it Jesus said? Was it something like, “Forgive them Father…”

            Rob

          • http://naver samurai

            Like I said, rob you moron, more people have died for our Christian faith than any other religion. Ever been to a Jihad? FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

        • Richard Pawley

          Karolyn, there is a big differene between mature Christians and Baby Christians. Even the Bible says that. Many call themselves Christian but it’s just because they are not Jews or Hindu’s. True and mature Christians, regardless of denomination, are people in whom the light and love of Christ is evident. They don’t have to ‘say’ anything. It is evident that there is something different about them. They are people who know the power of prayer. Those people who are protesting the soldiers funerals are gravely mis-informed. They would more accurately be described as a cult. Even you know they are not attracting people to their church or to Jesus. In fact they are doing Him a disservice. There are people who worship God but who don’t know Him, but on this planet God has given us Jesus, as the way out of here. If we understand what God has done and reject it, then we will obviouly not be going to the same place when we die. Many reject Jesus because of some of his followers but if one reads the words he himself said in the gospels, and the then read the following ACTS to see what Christianity is supposed to be like, one gets a much better picture. You might get a better idea too, if you read the one page article here: http://www.near-death.com/ritch.html

          • http://marcum@wildblue.net coal miner

            Samurai,

            Coal dungger is on the kool aid again. Your kind (coal dungger, rob, flushman, etc.) are what is hurting this country by taking us farther away from how we were founded. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY! What the nut house?You need help.What mental institution did you say you were from?Give me your phone number. We will send you help right away.HA HA HA HA

          • http://naver samurai

            Just like a lib coal dungger. You can’t refute the truth so you resort to name calling and personal attacks. What a moron! FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

    • Sandra Lee Smith

      You’re not the only non-Christian growing tired of the religion being pushed as the FOUNDATION of our nation. Many who came did come to avoid religious persecution, and our Founders were Godly men who used the Judeo-Christian traditions of law to build our Constitution upon, which are the most open-minded and just of any system of laws yet put together by anyone. But this is not and never was a “Christian” nation per se. That was part of the reason for the 1st Amendment being written as it was. There wasn’t to be any particular state religion; conversely ALL should be free and safe to practice whatever religion, or none, suited the individual. I think a lot of the sudden pushing of the Christianity is in reaction to the proselytizing of the Muslims in America and the efforts to bring in Shariah, as well as backlash against the ACLU and others to obliterate their religion from this nation, and in that context is a normal human reaction, if a bit on the annoying side to patriots who don’t happen to practice it. To say that America is a Godly nation would be more accurate; not even all the Founding Fathers were Christians. But as isk pointed out, a big problem is the lack of moral center and the lack of ethics being taught these days, which is all part of the socialist religion, and it IS a religion which is being foisted off on u as well, just now. So try to have a little patience with some, and just let them know politely that not all American patriots who support and defend the Constitution, and their right to believe as they choose ARE Christians, and would like the same respect from them on that score.

      • Richard Pawley

        Can’t disagree with much of what you have said here but there was a tremendous Christian revival (not church but evangelical Christian) that was a great part of the inspiration for the American Revolution. It was historian Joseph Tracy who in 1842 wrote of the influence of this great revival that swept the country from about 1725 until 1750 and it played a key role in forming he democratic concepts that took hold. So powerful was Rev. George Whitfield in preaching the freedom that comes from God and not the King or the state, the the British Crown put a price on his head.

  • Bob

    Ted is a hot headed liberal moron, however, he does have a point. History can not be changed and existing memorials should not be changed but new ones should refer to God and not a religion. Military cemeteries should continue to provide headstones to represent the religion of the soldier therein.

    • USNpops

      So long as the Majority of Religions in the country, or the world, believe that Jesus Christ was the son of God, the cross is the more appropriate symbol for honoring the dead. In hopes that they are sitting in the lap of God and in the presence of his son.

      When and if the Muslim Faith ever becomes the Majority in this country, rest assured that the Crescent will be displayed in every venue, both religious and secular. And if anyone, including a panel of judges rules against it, they will be beheaded. As it is all over the middle east.

      • Robert Smith

        USN says: “When and if the Muslim Faith ever becomes the Majority in this country, rest assured that the Crescent will be displayed in every venue, both religious and secular.”

        Just like some extreme far right wing christians want to do today.

        I find it amazing that all extremists somehow seem to believe that they are the ones who should set the rules for all of us.

        Rob

        • AngReed

          Couldn’t agree more. My wife and I are Pegan and NeoPegan respectively, meaning we care more for the life force of this planet and it’s creatures than politics of faith, i.e. the “you’re not MY religion so you need to be silenced” mentality of so many on here (“samurai” and “sook” anyone?) who make it their goal to spew so much hate in the name of ‘the creator’ as such, seeing all of these crosses standing in for EVERY FAITH disgusts and saddens me.

          Speaking of that ill-mannered freak, since I can’t reply to any of it’s comments: samurai/yook you should KNOW that taking the title of JAPANESE prestige as someone who links with Korean is significantly distasteful. FURTHER you are one single troll. Your mannerisms switching between samurai/yook have given you away… go back to 4chan and let the adults talk. Moron.

          • http://naver samurai

            Sorry [insult removed], but if my wife wishes to post something she can. Freedom of speech, remember? Anyway, you are a troll on this site. In fact, you kind of sound like a person named Chris. If you are, just keep it up. The more you do, the more evidence I have against you with the federal prosecutors here. If you’re not, just be quiet and get out of my face. People like you are a disgrace to this country, Chris or someone else. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

  • http://www.youtube.com/doomsdaypreacher Edward

    Here’s part of the article you neglected to reveal to your readers:

    “In a 3-0 ruling in the “Jewish War Veterans” v. City of San Diego case, the panel decided that the 29-foot concrete cross, which has stood for 57 years, constitutes a government endorsement of religion and therefore violates the First Amendment’s establishment clause

    Read more: U.S. court says Christian cross is unconstitutional.” ref. World Net Daily

    Is it only me or does anyone else agree that enough is enough of these jew bastards destroying the Christian heritage of the united states of America. These jews got it comin’ but good, 99.9% of US veterans are Christian, and next Christmas, if we see another one, say “Merry Christmas”, stop with the happy holiday BS it’s insulting and disrespectful.

    • JKO

      Cute FYI for you. Holiday comes from two words HOLY and day. Either one works.

      • independant thinker

        Technicaly true however holiday has been preverted to mean any celebration whether religious or not.

    • Karolyn

      It is people like you who give Christians a bad name.

      • Robert Smith

        It is my understanding that the Jewish kid, Jesus, was a loving figure who helped people, and encouraged that from others.

        Seems to me that all the hate I see around here just ain’t christian.

        Rob

        • http://naver samurai

          Sorry rob, but you aren’t Christian and know nothing about our faith. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

          • Robert Smith

            Yes samurai, I just don’t get that hate part.

            Rob

          • http://naver samurai

            No, you just don’t get anything do you? You don’t get God, Jesus, church, etc, nothing. You’re a disgrace rob! Take that from someone who has served for 20 years and you lie about when you served. Was it 1946? Oh wait, then you said Vietnam? Oh wait, none. You said you owned a business for 25 years. Can’t believe the last one due to your low intellect. You told my wife you let your ex wife have an abortion, but that was so you didn’t have any responsibility or have to pay child support. Not much of an American or a man there moron! FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

    • Sandra Lee Smith

      Just for the record, Jesus was a Jew, his disciples were Jews, and he never once believed anything but the Jewish religion. Neither did any of the 12 apostles. In fact, most of so-called Christian tradition is BUILT upon the foundations of Judaism, and was built there BY practicing Jews! Now, you don’t have to take my word for that, you can read it right in your own Bible. And that panel was still wrong; leaving that cross as a memorial to the honored dead only constitutes respect and care for THOSE MEN, NOT condoning any particular religion!

      • Richard Pawley

        True, but there are atheists among the Jews (who are a race as well as a religion) just as there are atheists who are of Christian background. Even Jesus said that he would rather a person be for Him or against Him “but being lukewarm, I vomit thee out…” pretty strong words. So better an honest atheist who says “I don’t know” than someone who is so into themselves they don’t care one way or the other. Of course the Bible has some harsh words for those atheists who are trying to convert others. And St. Paul, one of the great early Christians, who was taken up to the third heaven, blinded for a season, and then healed (Would that God could do similar to all non-believer’s but the reason Saul had this happen to him was that he cared). He was one of the most brilliant men of his day, a teacher’s teacher, and a scholar’s scholar, but he was still wrong until Jesus set him straight. I think it’s a fascinating story.

    • Mac

      Sorry, Edward, but your figure – “99.9% of US veterans are Christian” is not correct. As for what “constitutes a government endorsement of religion and therefore violates the First Amendment’s establishment clause,” in my opinion the attorneys and judges who argue that are dead wrong. Nothing could be more clearly stated as the Constitution’s wording: “Congress shall make no law regarding an establishment of religion…” How this memorial being placed by a non-governmental organization can be construed as being established by a law is just wrong. To me, “government endorsement” does not constitute making a law, if congress has not passed such a law.

  • CHWIlls

    There’s nothing in the Constitution that bans religious objects in any shape or form. In fact the Constitution states that the Government can not force a state religion on the people and therefore can not refuse to allow the expression of religion either. The liberal communists have infiltrated our government and they are making a mockery of the Constitution. I guess they didn’t read the part that requires the president to be a natural born citizen and describes natural born as having two parents who are both American citizens. http://www.petition2congress.com/2/2349/petition-to-remove-barack-obama-as-president-united-states-americ/

  • http://msn Kerri

    Serperation of Church and State was to keep the state out of the church not the other way around. It was to keep the govt. from creating a state run church as in England. Who were the morons who decided what this amendment ment? Why do our elected reps. not study history? It should be a prerequisite for them to study not only the constitution and Bill of Rights but all debates and documents from the founders so they will know what the constitution means. They should have to pass a test before running for office.

    • USNpops

      When the majority of those in our governing bodies are Lawyers, it will always be the same. Lawyers by the nature of their job, are in the business of looking at laws and finding loopholes and way to circumnavigate the meaning of the law.
      Part of the reason we have the financial mess we are in now. Check the number of Company Executives in the Congress. So you have Financial decisions made by lawyers. Wonder why we are in such deep financial crisais.
      Part of the reason our Health care System is about to be destroyed. Laywers deciding laws that the few Doctors in the Congress have any say about. Check the statistics. For any given medical problem, in the US you have a much greater survival rate than in any other country in the world. But Obamacare is to be the law, and that will surely change.
      And then you have out president. Never held a real job. Never served in the military. Was about to be disbarred and gave up his licence to practice to avoid that. And his wife did the same. All records are sealed. He says he taught Law, but those records are sealed. And he is making decisions as a disbarred Lawyer about our military, our financial well being, our health care and every other aspect of our lives. Including telling the Muslims that ours is a country for Muslims and gtheir great contributions to our society.

      • Sandra Lee Smith

        And THIS is precisely why we need our ORIGINAL 13th Amendment BACK in our Constitution; the one that specifically prohibits any member of the BAR {British Accreditation Registry, even if it’s the ABA} from holding ANY public office, elected OR appointed! In addition to the divided loyalty of the conferred British noble title of Esquire, they are strongly beholden to the banking cartels of Europe which pretty much own our Federal Reserve Bank too. It was “replaced” but never properly ratified, along with the 14th Amendment, since the southern states were still essentially at gunpoint under the Reconstruction in the post- Civil War years when those were put on the books, whereas the original WAS properly ratified by the then existing states.

  • Tom SC

    Speaking of Coruption, What about this 9th circuit court? I’ve been around since 1935 and I am very greatfull my ancesters did not migrate to Ca. I dom’t recall ever hearing anything good about the 9th circuit court. Is that not the home of Polosi and Boxer. Oh!! I’m sorry, I guess I should have said Sen.Boxer.These are just another group of Socialists who are part of the current administration bent on the distruction of our Society.In reply to Boomer 45 I would say don’t march on the cematery but march on DC from where the problem stems and stop in SC and pick me up on the way.Another Vet.

    • HFlashman

      Actually, the 9th Circuit is the one which has the most decisions affirmed by the COTUS. It also has the largest number of decision one would call “conservative”. It’s the sheer number of cases it reviews that gives the wacked ample opportunity to cherry pick and wave it like a piece of meat to rally the uneducated and ill informed.

  • http://yahoo Len Giddens Jr.

    This is the same type of judge that tells us it is unconstitutional to say marriage is only between a man and a woman. These are the ones that hate America and want to destroy it. They want our constitution changed to their fancy.

    • Robert Smith

      From Len: “These are the ones that hate America and want to destroy it.”

      Tell us Len, just how is same sex merrage going to destroy America?

      Be specific.

      Oh, and don’t base it upon YOUR religion. Even some christians approve of same sex merrage. Until you can clearly define christians then you can’t use that argument.

      Rob

      • http://naver samurai

        It destroys traditional values and erodes societies from the inside out. Just look at Greece, Rome, etc. Look how bad Europe is now because of losing their traditional values. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

  • isk of stupid sh t

    Alls I have to say is this kind of BS!!!!!!!!!!!! is the biggest problem in ths F-in country out of curiosity I wonder what the soldiers that the cross to some extent represents if they had a say so in it what the f would they say I do believe they would want that there for their resting bodies & for what they stood for & why the courts even waste the time on this kind od stupid sh t is beyond me it is there right to have & it is are right to belive in as we as a country always have hell I belive Gods name is in the what constitution so what are we going to rewrite that as well they need to stop when there behind & figure out just were the hell they are going & what they really want !!! Piont is simpley this when the courts put there nose where it dosent belong they waste are $$$ & there time & in short try try to remeber how & why this country got created & the words use in so many documents that now set in muesumes as artifacts wich was what made this at one time the Greatest country to live in when we rember all of it & of course why it was written & for who it was written for WE THE PEOPLE something like that !!!!!!!!!!!! thank GOD ity FRIDAY have a good 1

  • James

    As Samarai said, there is no constitutional provision for the separation of church and state. That idea developed over a period of years, by political activist groups, mostly the American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU). It started with the First Amendment’s “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof.” This was twisted to mean religion must then have no effect on federal or state laws. It was secured by offering religious organizations a 501(c)(3) tax exemption status. Religious organizations that apply for this tax exemption must then refrain from all political activity (which is so-stated in that law), or lose their tax-exempt status. If churches give up this tax exemption voluntarily, they will lose contributions from wealthy Christians who donate to them, and claim such donations as tax exemptions when they file tax returns.
    The First Amendment was never intended to have such effect on the states.

    • USNpops

      There are 2 ways ti look at the Tax Exemption status for Churches.

      First they, in their original form were the ones that provided assistance to the poor, and other benefits that the new Welfare State has take over with our tax dollars. And to some extent, they still do.
      For Example I know of a person that had 0ver $400.00 dollars in Heart surgery done at the local Catholic supported hospital. After it was lall over, and he is now back in good health, the hospital has relieved him of all debt after finding that he had no health coverage, and wwas unemployed for the length of his medical problems.

      Second reason quite frankly is that they are mostly depending on the donations of hard working Church goers that have already paid the taxes on the donated money. And in this economy it is becoming harder and harder for the churches to survive.

      • James

        USNpops, All true statements but I fail to see what that has to do with the First Amendment, which states: “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion.” That is, no power was delegated to the federal government concerning religion. Religion is one of those rights that were retained by the people (Amendment X).

    • Karolyn

      So you say! The government should have no business in promoting Christianity.

      • http://naver samurai

        “The U.S. Constitution is the finger of the ALMIGHTY HAND which has been so frequently and signally extended to our relief in the critical stages of the Revolution.” James Madison. Almighty hand means the Hand of God.

        “It is impossible to rightly govern a nation without God and the Bible.” George Washington.

        “I believe the Bible is the best gift God has ever given to man. All the good from the Saviour of this world is communicated to us through this book!” Abraham Lincoln.

        “We believe that all men are created equal, because they are created in the image of God!” Harry S. Truman.

        “If we ever forget that we are One Nation Under God, then we will be a Nation gone under.” Ronald Reagan.

        “We recognize no Sovereign but God, and no king but Jesus!” John Adams.

        Does this help clear up matters on what kind of nation we are and what we are founded on? FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

        • James

          Samurai, we were indeed founded as a Christian nation. The people didn’t want their government to mess with that. I believe the 501(c)(3) tax exemption offered to religious organizations, if they would refrain from political activity, is unconstitutional, tax laws are supposed to applied uniformly. Congress opens every session with a prayer to Almighty God, which used to end with ‘in the name of Jesus Christ,’ but now they omit that. The restriction in the Bill of Rights is only against making ‘law,’ not acting like Christians.

          • http://marcum@wildblue.net coal miner

            Wrong James

            Here another quote from James Madison:

            “And I have no doubt that every new example will succeed, as every past one has done, in shewing that religion & Govt will both exist in greater purity, the less they are mixed together.”

          • http://naver samurai

            Coal dungger, here is another quote from James Madison:
            “The U.S. Constitution is the finger of that Almighty Hand which has been so frequently and signally extended to our relief in the critical stages of the Revolution.” The Almighty Hand is the Hand of God moron. By the way, this was after 1785. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

          • James

            Coal miner, Yes but all of the Founding Fathers were Christians, two were Catholics and the rest were Protestants. These were the same men that added the Bill of Rights restrictions to the national government.

          • http://naver samurai

            Coal dungger doesn’t know that 29 of 56 founding fathers also held degrees from seminaries. Sounds Christian to me. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

        • http://marcum@wildblue.net coal miner

          samurai,

          The divinity of Jesus is made a convenient cover for absurdity. Nowhere in the Gospels do we find a precept for Creeds, Confessions, Oaths, Doctrines, and whole carloads of other foolish trumpery that we find in Christianity.
          John Adams

          • http://marcum@wildblue.net coal miner

            Samurai,

            You just stuck your foot in your mouth again.Read this website I just pasted.

            http://www.earlyamerica.com/review/summer97/secular.html

          • http://naver samurai

            Here’s more from John Adams:

            “The Christian religion is…the Religion of Wisdom, Virtue, Equity, and Humanity.”

            “It is religion and morality alone, which we can establish the principles upon which freedom can securely stand.”

            In the second quote, the religion is Christianity, no other. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

          • James

            Coal miner, Congratulations, you have discovered that modern Christian doctrine is nowhere to be found in the Holy Writ.

        • http://marcum@wildblue.net coal miner

          Samurai,

          Here is more,dirt bag.

          Called the father of the Constitution, Madison had no conventional sense of Christianity. In 1785, Madison wrote in his Memorial and Remonstrance against Religious Assessments:

          “During almost fifteen centuries has the legal establishment of Christianity been on trial. What have been its fruits? More or less in all places, pride and indolence in the Clergy, ignorance and servility in the laity; in both, superstition, bigotry and persecution.”

          “What influence, in fact, have ecclesiastical establishments had on society? In some instances they have been seen to erect a spiritual tyranny on the ruins of the civil authority; on many instances they have been seen upholding the thrones of political tyranny; in no instance have they been the guardians of the liberties of the people. Rulers who wish to subvert the public liberty may have found an established clergy convenient auxiliaries. A just government, instituted to secure and perpetuate it, needs them not.”

          Benjamin Franklin
          Although Franklin received religious training, his nature forced him to rebel against the irrational tenets of his parents Christianity. His Autobiography revels his skepticism, “My parents had given me betimes religions impressions, and I received from my infancy a pious education in the principles of Calvinism. But scarcely was I arrived at fifteen years of age, when, after having doubted in turn of different tenets, according as I found them combated in the different books that I read, I began to doubt of Revelation itself.

          “. . . Some books against Deism fell into my hands. . . It happened that they wrought an effect on my quite contrary to what was intended by them; for the arguments of the Deists, which were quoted to be refuted, appeared to me much stronger than the refutations; in short, I soon became a through Deist.”

          In an essay on “Toleration,” Franklin wrote:

          “If we look back into history for the character of the present sects in Christianity, we shall find few that have not in their turns been persecutors, and complainers of persecution. The primitive Christians thought persecution extremely wrong in the Pagans, but practiced it on one another. The first Protestants of the Church of England blamed persecution in the Romish church, but practiced it upon the Puritans. These found it wrong in the Bishops, but fell into the same practice themselves both here [England] and in New England.”

          Dr. Priestley, an intimate friend of Franklin, wrote of him:

          “It is much to be lamented that a man of Franklin’s general good character and great influence should have been an unbeliever in Christianity, and also have done as much as he did to make others unbelievers” (Priestley’s Autobiography)

          Thomas Paine

          This freethinker and author of several books, influenced more early Americans than any other writer. Although he held Deist beliefs, he wrote in his famous The Age of Reason:

          “I do not believe in the creed professed by the Jewish church, by the Roman church, by the Greek church, by the Protestant church, nor by any church that I know of. My own mind is my church. ”

          “Of all the systems of religion that ever were invented, there is no more derogatory to the Almighty, more unedifiying to man, more repugnant to reason, and more contradictory to itself than this thing called Christianity. ”

          The U.S. Constitution
          The most convincing evidence that our government did not ground itself upon Christianity comes from the very document that defines it– the United States Constitution.

          If indeed our Framers had aimed to found a Christian republic, it would seem highly unlikely that they would have forgotten to leave out their Christian intentions in the Supreme law of the land. In fact, nowhere in the Constitution do we have a single mention God,Christ or a supreme Being.

        • http://marcum@wildblue.net coal miner

          samurai,

          Here is more brainless one.
          My earlier views of the unsoundness of the Christian scheme of salvation and the human origin of the scriptures, have become clearer and stronger with advancing years and I see no reason for thinking I shall ever change them.
          – Abraham Lincoln

          • http://naver samurai

            Coal dungger,

            Here is what Lincoln really said, moron!

            “I believe the Bible is the best gift God has ever given to man. All the good from the Savior of the world is communicated to us through this book!” Gee moron, he mentions God, Bible, and Jesus in this quote. I guess that just knock off yours and being false and twisted to fit your moronic stance against this country. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

          • Robert Smith

            There you go again samurai… First you corrupted George Washington’s life to make it to your liking and now you are doing it to Lincoln.

            From Lincoln:
            “My earlier views of the unsoundness of the Christian scheme of salvation and the human origin of the scriptures, have become clearer and stronger with advancing years and I see no reason for thinking I shall ever change them.”
            – Abraham Lincoln, to Judge J S Wakefield, after Willie Lincoln’s death (Willie died in 1862), quoted by Joseph Lewis in “Lincoln the Freethinker,” also appearing in Remsburg’s “Six Historic Americans” (Authenticity questioned by some because it allegedly does not appear in Wakefield’s papers [Andrew Lutes, persistent picker of insignificant separationist nits]; authenticity questioned by others who claim that Wakefield did not exist [forgotten web site which also featured all the regular and long-refuted arguments for Lincoln's Christian piety]. Go figure!)

            Rob

          • http://naver samurai

            Rob and coal dungger, you two morons are wrong again!

            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2KXpJjTpOCE

            Watch it and prepare to face losing once again. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

      • James

        Karolyn, I’m saying the federal government was not delegated any power, in Article I, Section 8, over rights, and the Bill of Rights made it clear that the national government shall make no law concerning rights. The people placed these same restrictions on their state governments. Under the guise of promoting religion, government could favor one religion over another, as did the State of Virginia, which the people didn’t want.

      • Karolyn

        These were just men saying what they believed, as do we all. So? How do you know they weren’t talking through their hats – just saying what they knew people wanted to hear?

        • James

          Karolyn, the only way to know, is to read the Bible and compare what it says versus what churches say. Christianity is supposed to be based on the Bible, not what some priest or pastor says. For example: “For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast,” (Eph. 2:8-9). Churches have a business out of that.

        • James

          Karolyn, Back then, the signers of the Declaration of Independence put their lives on the line. The vast majority of Americans thought they were crazy, they would gather on hills around battle zones, fully expecting the revolutionary army to be slaughtered. There was no reason for the Founders to lie.

      • Richard Pawley

        True Christianity is the only force that can hold back the one world dictatorship that even the Bible says is coming (where all will be forced to worship the world leader and not even a king will be able to buy or sell without his mark – or microcomputer – IN not on, their right hand or forehead. This may not happen in our day but do we really want it to happen in our children’s or our grandchildren’s? Only the light can dispel the darkness. The religious in Iran are looking forward to their ‘messiah’ who will they believe will usher in a new world order by first killing 100,000,000 million of their peerceived enemies. The opposite of Christian freedom is not do whatever you want, but tyranny in some form. Even William Penn for whom the state of Pennsylvania was named said something similar. I don’t want the tyranny of the right or the left. I like freedom and if we lose all of our Christianity in this nation we will become a has been nation. The United Kingdom was once the greatest nation on earth and now many of their churches have been converted into Mosques and they are nearly bankrupt and having to cut benefits and maybe even abandon the socialized medicine they have had for 60 years. Spain was once a mighty nation and today they are a has-been with something like 19% unemployment and the greatest nation that ever was before the USA was Roman Empire and/or the Egyptian and the story of the Roman demise is so well known that even the current Pope says he fears for civilization and the world as we are failing in the same way they did. What we need in this nation is a spiritual revival like the one that spawned this great nation (and which England did all they could to suppress) which is also left out of most history books. I see nothing on the horizon that can make a difference or save our nation but a return to the Godly principles of the Bible and that starts with each of us. As Tiny Tim said in the A Christmas Carol, “May God bless us one and all!”

    • Robert Smith

      From James: “If churches give up this tax exemption voluntarily, they will lose contributions from wealthy Christians who donate to them, and claim such donations as tax exemptions when they file tax returns.”

      So? If they were true christians and not out for a fast buck they would donate anyhow.

      BTW, Dr. Gene Scott was NOT a 501-c3 organization and he did very well.

      Rob

      • James

        Robert, my point exactly. ‘IF’ they were true Christians, they WOULD continue contributing, but…watch what happens. A church in Maine spoke out against what the government was doing and, as far as I know, was the first church to lose its 50l(c)(3) exemption. Their membership fell off dramatically, whether that was because they feared their government or the loss of a tax break isn’t clear.

  • CJM

    The US Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals judges have misinterpreted and misrepresented what the Constitution actually states with respect to separation of church and state. It is NOT unconstitutional for any government office to display traditionally valued religious artifacts, nor is it unconstitutional for a display of these same replicas to be placed on public lands. What the Constitution DOES say is that Congress shall make no law respecting an ESTABLISHMENT of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof. This simply means that Congress may not establish a national religion such as the United Kingdom and the Middle-eastern countries have. All this other nonsense about having Nativity scenes on the courthouse lawns or a cross honoring our veterans on public land is an indication that our courts have yielded to the fallacies of special interest groups. Furthermore, it is not unconstitutional to bar so-called religions that are seditious in nature because these groups USE religion in order to promote anarchy, which is a direct threat to our national security. It is time the judges quit misleading the citizens and get back to the basics. It is bordering on treason when judges deliberately mislead the citizens through deliberate misinterpretation of our national documents. The Ninth Circuit has been liberal for many years now and they are out of sync with the other courts, which is why so many of their decisions are overturned at the US Supreme Court level. It is high time the Department of Justice cleaned house!

    • James

      CJM, I agree, the U.S. Constitution says nothing about the separation of church and state. It just says the national government has no power to legislate over religion, but that does not preclude members of the federal government from personally displaying and/or talking about their religion.

  • http://personallibertydigest Don

    Its good vs evil,right now evil has the upper hand.I pray good will take the lead soon.

    • isk of stupid sh t

      what country are you moving to, just kidd-in but at times thats usualy an easy answer when what you & the rest of us are hoping for at least the ? comes to my mind

      • Robert Smith

        Cuba has just about the same health care as America. Why not go there?

        Rob

    • Karolyn

      Why does it have to be that “non-believers” are evil? It seems to me that’s what you’re saying.

      • Sandra Lee Smith

        Karolyn, that’s pretty much the nature of EVERY religion; it declares all who don’t believe it’s way as the “evil” to be shunned and avoided. There isn’t an organized religious system that doesn’t do that to some extent. And there isn’t one, with the POSSIBLE exception of the Buddhists, that hasn’t started a war over just exactly that premise. I say possibly, Buddhists HAVE started wars, if you doubt that go to Pearl and have a look at the Arizona there. But to the best of my knowledge they haven’t started one OVER religion per se. Muslims, Christians, Jews, Hindus, all have done so at one or more times in their histories. Once a religious system begins to coalesce into an organized religion, it seems to be incapable of resisting that temptation to make all “non-believers” according to ITS tenets into some evil to be eliminated.

        • http://naver samurai

          Sorry Sandra, but the Japanese were believers in Shinto. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

          • http://marcum@wildblue.net coal miner

            samurai,

            Wrong nitwit:

            Shinto and Buddhism are Japan’s two major religions. They have been co-existing for several centuries and have even complemented each other and having a great respect,n for the other religious views

          • http://marcum@wildblue.net coal miner

            samurai,

            Here another website that is making you look like a fool.

            http://www.asianartmall.com/shintoarticle.htm

          • http://naver samurai

            Coal dungger, Shinto was the official religion of the Japanese and the Emperor. Second, you really need to know this:

            “If we ever forget that we are One Nation Under God…then we will be a Nation gone under.” Ronald Reagan.

            FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

          • Robert Smith

            As long as you’ve brought Lincoln up here is another one that shows just how false your taking out of context efforts are.

            “It is an established maxim and moral that he who makes an assertion without knowing whether it is true or false is guilty of falsehood, and the accidental truth of the assertion does not justify or excuse him.”

            – Abraham Lincoln, chiding the editor of a Springfield, Illinois, newspaper, quoted from Antony Flew, How to Think Straight, p. 17

          • http://naver samurai

            Thanks for discribing yourself rob, moron! FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

        • Karolyn

          And that is exactly why my beliefs do not fit into a neat little package named “religion.”

        • Robert Smith

          From Sandra: “Karolyn, that’s pretty much the nature of EVERY religion; it declares all who don’t believe it’s way as the “evil” to be shunned and avoided”

          Absolutely FALSE.

          The Bahá’í Faith is a monotheistic religion founded by Bahá’u’lláh in nineteenth-century Persia, emphasizing the spiritual unity of all humankind. They support a person’s commitment to any religion, or none.

          Pagans are very open about who commits to what religion, as long as it is right for them and they don’t try to force it upon another.

          May I suggest that you stop making things up?

          Rob

          • http://naver samurai

            I’d find that hard to believe considering Persia (Iran) has been under muslim domination for more than 1200 years. How could another religion ever survived and not be destroyed by the muslims for being infidels? Bzzzzz, wrong again! As always, wrong again! FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

          • Robert Smith

            When you can make some sense samurai… No hope there.

            However, here is another example of Lincoln and his views on christanity since you tried to use him for your sorry ends:

            “I am approached with the most opposite opinions and advice, and that by religious men, who are equally certain that they represent the Divine will. I hope it will not be irreverent for me to say that if it is probable that God would reveal His will to others, on a point so connected with my duty, it might be supposed that He would reveal it directly to me … These are not, however, the days of miracles…. I must study the plain, physical facts of the case, ascertain what is possible, and learn what appears to be wise and right.”

            – Abraham Lincoln, in a speech to an assembly of clergymen regarding the struggles he was having over the Emancipation Proclamation that would soon be issued (1862), quoted from Susan Jacoby, “One Nation, Under Secularism” (January 8, 2004)

          • http://naver samurai

            I suggest that you do the same, moron! Just check your history and find out when Iran (Persia) was conquered by the muslims. You’ll see what they did to people of other faiths. They murdered hundres of thousands in Persia alone. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

      • Richard Pawley

        That’s not what Jesus taught. He said that whatever you do to others in my name it’s the same as if you were doing it to me. In fact he went into specifics about this, saying that there would be people who would say after they die and were being rewarded, “Lord, when did I feed you or clothe you” and He said He would answer them saying saying, “When you did it to the least of these my brethren, you did it unto me!” So only a very misinformed person can call others evil. Jesus also said you will know them by their works, not that their works will in any way earn them Heaven as that is a free gift to those who accept the sacrifice that Jesus paid for it (for us). So if you see someone spouting this doctrine or that doctrine but you don’t see any love, you don’t see good things happening, you don’t have to be to smart to figure out that no matter the name this is not a church that Jesus has much or anything to do with. I have been in churches where you could feel the presence of the spirit of God, something like ionized air and joy, and I have been in others where I asked myself, “why am I here?” because it was a dead church.

      • James

        Karolyn, he didn’t say ‘evil’ persons are non-believers. And there are many believers who are evil.

        • Richard Pawley

          The Bible even says that Satan believes, “and trembles.”

          • James

            R.P. Good example, Satan, the mighty archangel, warred against God (Rev. 12:7-9) but he certainly believes in Him.

    • HFlashman

      I agree Don. The sooner we send the TPers back into their caves the better.

      • http://naver samurai

        Sorry, but we have to fight the war against the dark side (you) for at least another 2 years and we aren’t giving up yet. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

      • James

        HFlashman, Let’s not throw out the baby with the bath water. Basically, Tea Partiers are against what the government is doing, just because they don’t all believe like we do, is no reason to trash ‘em. We don’t like what the government is doing either, do we all agree on what should be done?

        • Robert Smith

          James says: “…just because they don’t all believe like we do, is no reason to trash ‘em. ”

          But that’s what samurai does around here all the time.

          MOF, a lot of those on the right do little but that.

          And it inspires nuts to go out and shoot people in the real world. That ain’t “pro-life” in my mind.

          But oops, “pro-life” means something different in christian speak, doesn’t it.

          Rob

          • http://naver samurai

            You mean like the left inspired this nut case to shoot 18 – 19 people in Arizona? FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

          • James

            Robert, yes it does. There are over 20 sins in the Old Testament that are capital offenses. Jesus said: “Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law.” True Christians believe that.

  • s c

    What we have here is a total failure to communicate via the English language (which is being slowly strangled via public education), pc insanity and people who refuse to take the time to stop and THINK.
    In point of FACT, Uncle Scam OWNS every church in America via its “tax-free, nonprofit doublespeak” approach to reality. For those of you who claim to be religious, you are far behind the learning curve. For those who claim to be ‘with it,’ you are useful idiots. For thos of you who don’t care because this issue isn’t knocking on your front door (yet), you might as well consider contemplating your navel and hugging a tree.
    When Uncle Scam decides to flex his muscles (and he will do it), he will remind America’s churches that “when you take my brand, I OWN YOU.” Queen Nancy Pelosi has already dared to make this issue public via America’s whore media. So how many of you were listening? Do you care? Are you wearing your customized chains in public so your masters will love you?

    • Robert Smith

      Posted: “Uncle Scam OWNS every church in America via its “tax-free, nonprofit doublespeak” approach to reality.”

      False. Dr. Gene Scott’s church was NOT 501-c3.

      However, the U.S. took him to the SCOTUS over his FCC lisence and he lost big time.

      Disproves your tax free status, even though it can be said they got him another way.

      Scientology has lots of issues with tax exempt status though and they don’t have much trouble unless someone is accusing them of murdering, stealing their stuff…

      Rob

      • http://naver samurai

        It’s not a real Christian church rob! FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

        • Robert Smith

          Who gets to decide what is christian and what isn’t? Certainly I don’t think that anyone will believe that hateful garbage you wrap yourself in to be christian.

          Why not try loving? Look into Bishop Spong.

          Rob

          • http://naver samurai

            Bishop Spong isn’t a real Christian with his views of supporting abortion. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

            P.S. Look at Mother Teresa. She was pro life and anti gay, so what’s your point?

      • James

        Robert, what it proves, is that the government is lashing out against those who disagree with what it is doing, whether they have a tax-exempt status or not.

        • Robert Smith

          Naw…. Actually it appears that Dr. Scott was into organized crime and he used his church to launder money among other things.

          His wife was a demi-porn star.

          How’s that for a brand of christanity.

          Rob

          • James

            Robert, Christianity is what the Bible says it is, not what some Christians do, nor is it what many churches now teach.

  • jigga

    so having a cross for those that were lost in war is unconstitutional on one hand, yet the other hand the government tramples all over the constitution by this mountain of debt they created.

    • Robert Smith

      So which is right, jigga? Don’t hold anything back.

      BTW, it was Bush who took a budget surplus and ran us into record debt with the wars he lied to get us into.

      Rob

      • http://naver samurai

        Obama bin Laden has the largest debt in history and the surplus was only made out of thin air. It was nothing more than a slush fund for the libs. Get your facts straight before you post, moron! FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

    • James

      Jigga, I agree with Robert here. There is no constitutional requirement for Congress to balance their budget. In my opinion, the entire United States is bankrupt. The combined American personal, business and national debt is beyond our ability to repay. When the United States defaults on its interest payments to bill and bond holders, watch out.

  • boomer45

    TED, If, in fact, you are a vet, I stand corrected. But if you are, I cannot for the life of me, understand how you can make the comments you did. It’s not “My cross” it’s A cross which represents the majority of the men and women buried there. My dog tags read “No Preference” !!! I have NO problem if any other religious symbol was erected….yes even a crescent, if the vet buried there was Muslim.The anti-Christian agenda, that you apparantly subscribe to is NOT an American mentality. As I went to a school that still taught effectively, without teacher unions, etc, I can read rather well, thank you. The point here, is that the 9th Court of Appeals, has no busines deciding whether a Cross (or any other religious symbol) be allowed or not. As you like the observations of the Founding Fathers, how about:
    “There are more instances of the abridgements of the
    freedom of the people by gradual and silent encroachments of those in power than by violent and sudden usurptions.” James Madison Fom my perspective, that’s what’s been going on for decades.
    or
    “Our contest is not only whether we ourselves shall be free, but whether there shall be left to mankind an asylum on earth for civil and religious liberty” Samuel Adams To me, that means the right to erect a cross, or a star of David or any other symbol, anywhere, without Government interference.

    Ted, there’s a huge difference between my disagreement with yourbeliefs and a Government big enough, with the intent to destroy any citizen’s God given right to Liberty. My willingness to make a stand against a tyranical Government, has absolutely nothing to do with you. You have yet to understand the nature of Freedom and a Republican for of Governmant. If you served, Thanks for your Service and the sacrifices of your family.

    • JKO

      Well said Boomer. Thanks for being man enough (assuming you are a man) to stand corrected. We are in the same boat.

  • boomer45

    CJM, Thanks, I see you “get it”

  • Ronald Williams

    How are judges removed from the bench, legally?
    -Ron-

    • USNpops

      Federal Judges serve at the “Pleasure of the President” and are appointed by the president.
      Remember the flap when President Bush fired some Federal Judges after he went into office.
      Of Course they overlooked the Purge of Judges by Slick Willy Clinton.

      • HFlashman

        USN…wrong. Fed Judges are apoited by the President and confirmed by the Senate. They serve for life, resignation, or removed by Congress via impeachment. BushII went after the US Attorneys who are, in essence, federal prosecutors. He fired them not for performance reasons, but for political purposes. They weren’t willing to go after his political opponents without some proof of a crime. He wanted them to harass and bring false charges against his political enemies…

      • James

        USNpops, if memory serves the Clinton purge was U.S. Attorneys General within the states, not judges. Presidents don’t have power to remove judges.

        • Robert Smith

          It was Bush who abused the privelage.

          Clinton was following tradition.

          Rob

          • http://naver samurai

            Clinton was guilty of it too. Place the blame at the feet of the person at the time. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

          • James

            Robert, I fail to see the difference. My point was, presidents have no power to remove judges from the bench, after the Senate approves them. Their removal can only be done by impeachment.

          • Robert Smith

            Follow the boucing ball, James…

            Prosicutor, prosicutor, prosicutors can be removed by presidents.

            Bush abused it because they didn’t go after folks Bush wanted to smear.

            Rob

          • James

            Robert, Prosecutors are not judges, they are U.S. Attorneys (lawyers).

  • Teresa

    oxymoron: place your hand on a bible in a court of law (swear to tell the truth in front of your creator and all!), but the ten commandments, cross, or prayer are not allowed to be in a federal building.
    In God We Trust……please do remember, even if you do not like, that is our nations motto!

    • JLC

      Teresa — Best post of the day!

    • HFlashman

      Actually…you are not required to swear an oath on a bible or any other text. Quit lyin’. Get informed.

      • http://marcum@wildblue.net coal miner

        HFlashman,

        You are right.Certain religious groups such as the Amish don’t have to swear an oath on The Bible.

      • http://naver samurai

        Wrong answer flush the toilet. If you go to Elkhart Superior Court, you’ll see a Bible at the bench of every judge for that purpose. Judge Stephen Platt made you swear on it before you even made it to the witness stand. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

        • Robert Smith

          Then he is abusing his position and should be removed.

          A bible isn’t necessary to testify.

          Rob

          • http://naver samurai

            Wanna bet? FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

          • smilee

            samurai says:
            January 9, 2011 at 11:51 pm

            Wanna bet? FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

            I’ll Bet I have been sworn in in numerous court rooms in many different court rooms and never once have I seen a Bible. You are asked to raise your right hand and take the oath. No law requires a bible to place you under oath

          • http://naver samurai

            That may be true smilee, but I’ve sworn on Bibles in a military court of law a few times. Maybe your state is just more liberal than mine. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

          • smilee

            BY LAW NO WHERE IS IT REQUIRED!!

      • http://marcum@wildblue.net coal miner

        Hflashman,

        You are right.

        Court scenes in American movies, television, and books typically show people swearing an oath to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. Usually they swear an oath “to God” and with a hand on the Bible. Such scenes are so common that most people seem to assume that it’s required, but it’s not. You have a right to just “affirm” that you will tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. No gods, Bibles, or anything else religious need to be involved.

        • http://naver sook young

          Yes they are. Come here to our hometown and we’ll show you. Thank you.

          Sook Young
          Wife of the Samurai

    • Robert Smith

      Teresa, I’ve already posted to you the information about how the right wing put that on the money in the 1050′s.

      Why don’t you accept the truth?

      Rob

      • Robert Smith

        Oops, sorry, that was “under god” in the Plege.

        Rob

      • http://naver samurai

        Were we a country in the 1050′s moron? We are a Christian nation and will forever be such. Atheists and agnostics suck bilgewater! FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

        • Robert Smith

          samurai says: “Atheists and agnostics suck bilgewater!”

          And over enthusiastic christians inspire killings of real born people.

          Quite frankly I think sucking bilgewater is less dangerous to America.

          Rob

          BTW, here is more about Lincoln…

          sburg: ‘Under God’ Inserted Long After Speech Given

          “We here highly resolve that these dead shall not have died in vain — that this nation shall have a new birth of freedom — and that government of the people, by the people, for the people, shall not perish from the earth.”

          – Abraham Lincoln, closing the Gettysburg Address, according to the Nicolay Draft (see photo, below), one of two that he wrote on the day he gave the address. Neither draft contains the phrase, “Under God” (quoted from a photo of the Nicolay Draft, below). Delivered at Gettysburg on November 19, 1863

    • James

      Teresa, everyone of the new Representatives was sworn in, yesterday, with their left hand on the Bible, and their right hand raised.

      • http://naver sook young

        Yes. We’re still a Christian nation! Thank you.

        Sook Young
        Wife of the Samurai

  • jopa

    Hflashman and eddie47 were the only ones so far that read the article and understood what it said.The rest of you have to take some reading comprehension classes or if there is someone with you in the room have them explain the article to you.I often wondered where the high school dropouts went and here they are.

    • American Citizen

      With liberal judges it all comes out the same.

    • James

      Jopa, I agree. Yesterday, John Loughner, a 22-year-old white man shot 18 people, just outside of a Safeway store in Tucson, Arizona. He shot District Court Judge John Roll, and U.S. Representative Gabrielle Gifford (through the skull), who is still alive but will probably never be normal, if she survives. The bullet passed through her brain. Among the dead, so far, is a 9 year-old girl.
      Rep. Gifford’s district borders for 100 miles on the Mexican border, which is where about 51% of illegals enter the United States. It hasn’t yet been revealed what Loughner’s motive was, but that could have been part of it. Unfortunately we’ll probably see more of that.

      • Robert Smith

        Hey James…

        You say: “It hasn’t yet been revealed what Loughner’s motive was, but that could have been part of it. Unfortunately we’ll probably see more of that.”

        What is already a fact is that when she voted in favor of Health care her office was vandalized. There were a number of threats and her version of town meetings were disrupted.

        IOW, there is a great deal of evidence to believe that the shooter was inspired by the toxic right wing rhetoric and he went out and killd some folks because there is so much talk of that from the right wing.

        Rob

        • http://naver samurai

          Sorry moron, but he was already proven to be a left wing anarchist. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

          • smilee

            Pure BS sammie, the man was not a liberal

          • http://naver samurai

            Actually, smilee he was a left wing pothead. That’s how his e-mails sound and how his associates describe him.

            http://www.newsmax.com

            FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

          • smilee

            NEWSMAX

            No wonder your so confused, NEWSMAX is a far right conservative propaganda publication. It is full of lies!!

        • James

          Robert, I agree with Samarai here. They posted a couple of Loughner’s blogs on some website, which seemed to talk around what was really on his mind. I saw no right-wing rhetoric there, he simply indicated something dire was about to happen. His shooting 20 people and killing 6, (Christians, Jews and that 9-year-old girl, who was born on September 11, 2001) shouts he was just a loner seeking notoriety. The shooter took a cab to crime scene, he clearly expected to die there. I’m a Christian right-wing extremist, if you want to nail me to a cross, fine, I would be honored.

        • James

          Robert, there is no evidence that Jared Loughner shot Rep. Giffords because of how she voted on legislation. He is an emotionally disturbed person, who was envious of her exalted position, and frustrated at his own failures. Killing six other people, for no apparent reason, says he fully intended to die at the scene of his crime.

  • JC

    Praise God and pass the ammo! Hmm, Nope that doesn’t work anymore…
    For God and Country!…Nope that doesn’t work either.

    So we aren’t supposed to have any Christian values in a nation founded by people with Christian values…and our coutry is being shoveled over the the UN and no longer has any soveriegnty…

    Does anyone want to try and explain to me just who we are anymore?
    UN Chattel maybe? Global Slaves? Americans?

    And what is it we’re “over there” fighting for?
    To bring Freedom? To bring Justice?

    I can’t speak for anyone else, but I have had it with these
    UN-AMERICAN Pricks thinking they can speak for me. They don’t.

    • Teresa

      JC, I agree w/you and your comments…I want to tell you about a book I read…it was talking about the jihads attacks on the “western” as they called us. Their orginizations here such as CAIR or you can usually associate them w/North America foundations because they do not use the word America, anyway….my point here is this…they described in the book that they will destroy our Constitution, replace it w/Sharia Law (this is already being done in other countries) but the big thing that stands out in OUR country besides our 2nd Amendment is our faith…they HAVE to attack our faith by every means possible! The women especially! And I do NOT CARE who listens or not but you better head my warnings, the f b i has been investigating this for YEARS and Holder and the Justice Dept. is leading right along w/it. Start There!
      There were 52 members associated w/CAIR before the November election. Our congress so politically correct they will see us enslaved for the love of money and one world order! If you are left, right, dem, rep…it does not matter…you better be American and wake up.

    • JC

      Well Teresa,
      On the up side…maybe our best and bravest will start to see just how well they are supported by this “politically correct” administration and realize who it is they should be loyal too.
      Certainly NOT the Government that is using them to bring the planet to a New World Order, all the while selling them out wholesale.

      • HFlashman

        JC…let me see if I have this correct. You’re encouraging and calling for armed insurrection because you think your way is the only way. Thus, if you disagree with it, we should have a frippin’ civil war?

        And you call yourself a patriot? Of what and for whom? Al Qaeda?

        • JC

          Bite me you twisted communist.
          Got that straight?

          • Robert Smith

            ROFL (if it weren’t so sad)

            JC, don’t you have anything real to say? Just a prodding towards violence? Thanks for the example from the right.

            Rob

          • JC

            Robert, you’re another twisted freak and should be regarded as such by all.
            Why shouild I respond at all to a twisted reactionaty who deliberately misses the point of the commentary and goes straight to hysterical assumptions from GOD knows where. Tyically Left BS.
            You can bite me too you contemptible, twisted Communist Freak.
            I have more respect for sewer rats.

          • http://naver sook young

            Thank you JC. It’s about time someone tells him what he really his.
            Good post and I hope to read more of them.

            Sook Young
            Wife of the Samurai

  • John

    Well said JC!

    The more they attack our Christian Values the more they embolden me and strengthen my faith!

    As I’ve said, they are the minority, they do not represent me and the majority of this Great Country.

    What is so hard for them to understand, the FACT that this Country was founded on Judeo-Christian principles?

    Based on that, is it not possible that the majority of soldiers that are buried there where the cross is are Christians or Catholics? Did Muslims serve in WWI and WWII? Are they also founding fathers of our Country?

    Simply, put this is a Christian Country, like it or not!

    • Richard Pawley

      Unless you can rewrite history which has been going on since the ACLU and other ultra-left groups got a foot hold in this country a few generations back. What we will soon be going through is a once in 500 year change, maybe a once in a thousand year change. It is not just going to be a typical Great Depression but something much greater, but if we work and pray we can push it back and give individual freedom and liberty a few more generations. It’s a long shot, but it’s worth taking and working towards. The American Center for Law and Justice (ACLJ) is fighting both the ACLU and to keep Sharia Law from getting a foothold in this country as it has in England. Since nature abhors a vacuum (and if we eliminate our Judeo-Christian heritage) then it will not be atheism that replaces it but Sharia.

  • Jon Weiss

    Nothing new here, a liberal ideologue has slipped on his Judges Robes and blown another ruling.

    Nothing new about a liberal Judge being wrong.

  • http://NONE leroy wilsson

    this judge should be removed from office so toothe muslim president. we need a business president and it looks like america needs help because it is going to hell needs to change course this is a christian country with christian values americans are americans there is no race crap we are from the human race god bless america use to be great

  • American Citizen

    Public property belongs to the public who pay for those properties with their taxes. These newby judges with their flawed interpretations of the Constitution need to be removed from the bench. It shows that it was necessary for Congress to hear our Constitution to be read out loud. It was probably the first time some of them had ever heard or read it to it fullest extent. They are sworn to uphold it, they need to know what it says and stop reinventing one. Those judges should be sent back to school.

  • Bitter Libertarian

    First off someone please show me the EXACT wording (NOT the manipulative marxist, devious interpretation/twisting) in the US Constitution that Clearls says: Seperation of Church and state.

    I’ll tell you where it is…NOWHERE.

    The ONLY thing that is is said is “Congress shall make NO LAW respecting an establishment of religion”.
    NOW, IF that cross was funded by an act of Congress then they are correct it is and they can have 2 choices:
    1-take it down
    2-Have a Drive to replace the public funds that put it there making it a Private monument.

    If it was Funded by a state Fund then that states constitution applies. There may be/may not be a stipulation forbidding public funds for such things. It sits on City property, so why in the hell are the Bully feds involved again???

    Now there is an Option…Since a war monument does not represent an establishemnt of religion, the purpose of the cross in the monument is key, representation here is not religion but “reverence” and millions of people Universally recognize a “cross” as a turning point, or a place “someone died”. Its symbology is more important then if it represents a religion or not, which I agree should not.

  • JMS

    “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof”. Hmm would seem to me that when the Judiciary rules that you can’t have a cross or other religious symbol on public land they are doing two things:
    1. Denying the public the right to use public land. Doesn’t the land below to the public?
    2. Establishing the religion of non-belief .. hmm didn’t the USSR promote a similar belief system. So in effect from the bench they are promoting a ‘religion’ and ‘prohibiting’ the public from the ‘free exercise’ of theirs.

    Just wondering here.

    • Bitter Libertarian

      If the Govt sold the land to a Christian group to build the monument and it was all funded through private donations, then we wouldnt have this discussion.

      I know I dont want them (the Govt) building monuments for Islam, so I’d rather if Public finding was NOT IN THE BUSINESS of respecting one religion over another. :)

      • Robert Smith

        Or Pagan, or anything else except the “approved” christian stuff.

        Rob

        • http://naver samurai

          Robert, the more lies you say about this country and Christians, the more attacks that will be comming your way. God Bless America! FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

    • James

      JMS, No federal law was involved here. The separation of church and state was gradually adopted by the judicial branch, not the legislative branch. However, in that case, both parties were of the same state, which precludes federal courts from hearing it. check it out, read Art. III, Sec. 2 which lists the types of cases federal courts have jurisdiction to hear. Remember also, the 11th Amendment removed two of those.

    • Robert Smith

      JMS asks: “1. Denying the public the right to use public land. Doesn’t the land below to the public?”

      It sure does… And “We the People” are the public, NOT JMS and his violent god.

      Rob

      • http://naver samurai

        You don’t even know what “We the People” means you moron! FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

      • Richard Pawley

        I’ve read that the president is taking millions of more acres away from the states out west and declaring them public lands so that there will be no oil drilling, no copper or silver mines, no drilling for gas or gold, because it’s all public and can’t be used.

  • castaway

    I think when everyone realizes that ISLAM is not a religion, but a vicious cult bent on world domination, and using religion as a mask to achieve its goal, we can then make progress.

    There should not even be Muslims in this country, as it was founded as, and still is a Christian country. Islam is nothing more than a VIRUS TO HUMANITY, and should be shunned and stopped where ever, and when ever possible. In addition, if you athiests had any brains, you would stick-up for your Chritian brothers and sisters,like a true Patriot, and not for the Viral cult of Islam.

    It now appears that we will not return to the greatness that America once had without a vicious fight within, with guns and bullets, as nothing else will work. The passive,tolerant, acceptant nature that has been forced into our brains,will bring about our undoing very soon. In fact it is happening as we communicate on this site.

    • Bitter Libertarian

      I respectfully disagree. The United States of America was not founded on Christianity. For the Record here I am a Bible believing and God fearing Man.
      In any event, The founds may have had Christian beliefs, but was MORE important was their belief in Freedom and Liberty. which for the record Christianity and the Crusades does not have the nicest record on allowing religious freedom.
      My main point is not to attack Christianity, nor be pissed if the Govt does nothing against any religion just because one Religion does not like another.
      They (Islam) have every right due to religious freedom in the US just as any other religion does. The problem is that a few and it is a few who start problems for the whole group.
      As far as being a “Patriot” to any religion…that just sounds wrong.

      • James

        Bitter, I disagree, every one of the Founding Fathers was Christian and every sin in the Bible was made a crime or misdemeanor in our laws. Just yesterday, every new congressman was sworn in with his left hand on a bible.

        • http://naver samurai

          Yes! See rob, we are a Christian nation and you need to swear on the Bible before taking office. Founding fathers won that one and the left and atheists lost. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

          • smilee

            Not true

            The Koran has also been used and the Bible is not a requirement but most do use it. Personal choice. More tradition that anything. You as a Christian did not tell the truth here. For a Christian you sure have a little respect for the truth.

          • http://naver samurai

            Where do you get the koran has been used? I suggest that you watch the video and see all of them swore in with the Bible. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

          • smilee

            Sammie

            For one Rep. Keith Ellingson in the uS House took his oath on Jefferson’s copy of the Koran. I believe there have been others but not sure, point it is legal.

      • http://naver sook young

        In all the books I have read, the crusades were nothing compared to the ever lasting jihad of the muslims. Thank you.

        Sook Young
        Wife of the Samurai

        • smilee

          They both used death, destruction and torture, so please explain where you see the difference

          • http://naver samurai

            It would be in the, as my husband says, “the body count.” Also, as we know, the Crusades ended many centuries ago, but the Muslims haven’t stopped their jihads yet. They still continue to attack Israel, Thailand, Philippines, and other places. I’ve learned that Islam isn’t a religion and it’s bent on ruling the world. Like an empire, it wants to get bigger so it does this by attacking countries that boarder their “empire.” I hear they are starting to cause trouble in China, Russia, and attempted acts in America. We as Christians try to talk with these people for peace, but they never really want it. Thank you.

            Sook Young
            Wife of the Samurai

          • smilee

            Sookie

            Whats your real point!!

  • Mutantone, Key West Fl USA

    My guess is that any display of religious affiliation on government lands would fall under the same court ruling so all the crosses the Stars of David on the graves of veterans would also be subject to the laws as the Ninth District sees it.

    • Bitter Libertarian

      The Govt isnt suppose to have affiliation with any religion!

      As far as the graves…Thats different..the Stone or memorial with their religious preference is speific to an individual, and as long as every individuals beliefs are allowed recognition equally there is no religion given special respect.

  • MRAMERICA

    Someone once said, “Christianity is the root of all democracy, the highest fact in the rights of man”. We are experiencing what is tantamount to an epidemic in America; a vile and hate-filled invective directed at Christianity, emanating from the media, entertainment, education, even politics. Given the opportunity to usurp the right and freedom of the Christian religion, the decision of a liberal judge with an agenda will usually reflect his or her ideological bent.

  • http://Persoanllibertydigest Jim

    I’m certainly not a bible thump-er, but I believe theirs a God and Theirs going to come a day where we will pay for all our deeds. If America turns away from its creator,and all that is good in our world, this will become a dark place — I whole heartily believe in the Constitution and I believe our fore Fathers are rolling in their graves. Our laws and courts have been twisted to support those idea’s that are not fundamentally important to our country. The courts and the jesters in Washington are pushing their Anti-God, Anti- American agenda — We need every American to fight, believe and band together so we can overcome those who would take away our freedoms –

  • http://PersonalLibertyDigest Wiselady

    wiselady says:
    1-7-11

    Thank you rhcrest, for getting the history of Islam history correct for all of us to learn what is hehind the madness of believing that they preach peace, love and freedom. They hide behind a religion full of evil that has caused more wars and slavery throughout the world.Many won’t hesitate to kill thier children which is already happening.

    Christians did not creat satanisim. It was a fallen Angel, Lucifer, who made himself a god. thus we are given free will to folllow Christ as our Savior or satan. the worse sin is he who denies Christ.

    And Jim has culminated my thoughts by agreeing with him that there is a price to pay for carelessness in not appreciating our forefathers and treating the Constituion without respect. You bet we neeed to fight for protecting it. I do my share by doing work to get the Congress to pass an amendment to make English as the official language, that correct history be taught in schools from K through college and that more patriotism be promoted in all communities in all ethnic cultures in social events.

    We are sinking in a quagmire of who we are and what we stand for.

    • Richard Pawley

      You say “…the worse sin is he who denies Christ,” but any sin can be forgiven if a person accepts what Jesus did for him and is truly repentant, except for one. Jesus said that every sin could be forgiven except the sin against the Holy Spirit. What this seems to mean is that if a person knows something is of God, say a miraculous healing, and says it is not, well, just today someone told me of how his father was dying of an inoperative cancer as big as a grapefruit on his neck that intruded into his throat and the patient could not speak. My acquaintance told me that he prayed and even told God he would sacrifice a give a year of his own life if God would extend his dad’s life. He had a vision and was told that because he had done so much for others God would give his father another year and a week past his grandson’s birthday. Three days later a nurse came in to change the man’s bandage and the giant tumor had fallen off in the bandage. The man recovered within a few days and experts from as far away as Europe came to examine him as the case was so unusual. He recovered and spent much time with his beloved grandson and one year and one week later he died. I’m not entirely sure but I suspect something like this might quality as an unforgivable sin if a person knew that only God could do this and yet denied it and said it was someone or something else. Those who reject God here don’t even have access to much of what is on the other side according to what is revealed by Dr. George Ritchie: http://www.near-death.com/ritch.html

  • R.J.W.

    So, are they going to remove all the crosses at Arlington as well, since those were paid for with public funds? They could replace them with completely inoffensive square marker stones.

    • Bill

      R.J.W.

      Didn’t mean to duplicate your post. I was so incensed that I wanted to respond to absurdity of this topic that I didn’t complete reading all posts. Sorry.

  • Bill

    Just out of curiosity. what are they going to do about Arlington and all the crosses there? Isn’t Arlington Federal property? While we are at it what about all the crosses in all the cemeteries? what about the one in our window panes and door panes? Uh oh somebody’s going to be very very busy. LOL

    • Robert Smith

      Arlington Cemetary has approved several dozen religious symbols on stones. It isn’t exclusively christian.

      Rob

      • libertytrain

        I believe from what I could discern that all Vets all eligible for these headstones/grave markers no matter what cemetery they are buried in – be it on Post, VA cemetery or a private cemetery, etc.
        http://www.cem.va.gov/hm/hmemb.asp

  • jopa

    John claims and most of you agree this country was formed on Christian values.Values that permitted the white man to slaughter millions o American Indians for their land and water.Then in order to farm the stolen land we went to Africa and enslaved millions of blacks and worked them to death.Oh I know that is all history.Oh but wait, now we have the capability to go to places like Iraq and without justification slaughter their people.There may be something wrong with our Christian values and the way people think in this country.

    • Robert Smith

      Don’t forget the “christian values” that have been offered by many on these forums where they want to send gay military folks to kill and be killed by moslums.

      Don’t forget all those “christian values” that work so hard to deny health care to so many Americans.

      Don’t forget all those “christian values” that when not supported by facts simply engage in calling others “moron.”

      Don’t forget all those “christian values” that deny people equal rights in marriage, in recreational drugs (or religious ones like ganga for rosterferians or payote for American Indians).

      I don’t seem much inspiration in “christian values” except to hate other human beings. I doubt Jesus would have supported that.

      Rob

      • a grandma

        see my reply two posts down, sorry i messed up on where I posted it

      • http://naver sook young

        What about Obama starting the death panels by pulling AVASTIN from the shelves? Can’t women who need this drug to survive late stage breast cancer have the right to live? Rob you really have a long way to go to understand what is going on. Thank you.

        Sook Young
        Wife of the Samurai

        • http://marcum@wildblue.net coal miner

          sook young,

          You can still get it.
          From the FDA:

          WARNER: Well, Avastin is on track to becoming the top selling drug in the world. In part because it is so expensive — about $50,000 per patient. It still is approved for lots of other cancers — colon cancer, lung cancer, brain cancer. So if the FDA revokes it for cancer, women can still get it if their doctor prescribes it off label. It will just be a lot harder to get an insurance company to pay for it and Roche could lose half-a-billion in sales.

          • http://naver sook young

            So you mean that the company losing money is more important than the lives of 17,500 women a year? You don’t sound like an American to me. Thank you.

            Sook Young
            Wife of the Samurai

      • Richard Pawley

        “Don’t forget all those “christian values” that work so hard to deny health care to so many Americans” What a trashy false statement to say! Our nation is within a few years of being virtually destroyed economically unless a miracle takes place and it is the left wing progressive liberals who want to deny those over 59 or whatever the cut-off will be, access under Obama-Pelosi-Reid care. Only a fool could believe we could treat 30,000,000 more and save money. Already insurance companies are raising their premiums by 8, 10, and even 30 percent because of the cost of the new “free” health care. We are copying England’s system, and they are thinking of changing their 60 year old socialist system because they are almost broke and they are not in debt nearly as much as we are. Of course we can tax everyone, every single person every single cent they have and it will be only enough to keep us going as we are. If you are unhappy now you are going to be totally miserable when the government checks are worth a tiny fraction of what they are now, and food and most everything else costs three times what it does now in a few years. Incidentally as it is now very few are denied medical care in this country although several hospitals in Texas and Florida have gone bankrupt because of the cost of treating illegal aliens. Why don’t you just admit you hate God and have no intention of changing. You don’t want to learn. Like a few others here you only want to criticize. I really feel sorry for you and them. The God you hate could heal you and change you but you want neither. “Better to reign in hell than serve in Heaven” the poet John Milton said of Lucifer and your attitude seems to come very close to that. Just be aware that you won’t reign and the choice you have made is yours and if you continue to flounder around like a fish out of water and doing nothing but accusing others – well the Word of God says that the Devil (Satan, formerly known as Lucifer) is the Great Accuser. Well, God still loves you no matter how much you hate Him and that must just kill you. It blinded Satan, and in his insane rage he has made it his eternal quest to destroy mankind through any method he can. His former brilliance has become a grotesque self-chosen existence. Maybe when your life, and that of a few others like Flashman, become so miserable and horrific you will cry out to Jesus and find Him waiting for your cry, but it seems so unlikely. Still it is hard to feel for someone who chooses arrogance and error and will not give honor where it is due (not even capitalizing the word Christian). Sad indeed! I wish you well but I suspect you and a few others have been on this negative path for a very long time. Only a personal relationship with Jesus can change that, not church, not religion, but relationship. I can think of no other word but “sad” and I hope the others here learn to stop calling you names or arguing because it is not helping you or them. Well, like I said, God loves you and there is nothing you can do about that except continue to reject His love and suffer as you obviously do, or accept His love and grow. I know I have a long way to go myself but I’m sure glad I got on board years ago. Have a great rest of your life but that is unlikely as you are now. “There are none so blind as those who will not see!”

        • smilee

          How do you explain that other western civilizations can provide all of their citizens health care at a per capital cost of about half the cost in the USA and provide better outcomes than we can. Even Cuba has been able to do it and they are about the poorest county around. We are rated 37th in the world as to outcomes and that is lower than Cuba, Canada, France, Germany, England, Norway etc. Are we so closed minded we are missing something or is health care not a real concern of ours. I think that is the real reason. It is embarrassing that they can all do better that us, we at one time were at the top

        • smilee

          By the way the health care for those 30 million does not take effect until 2014 so why is it insurance companies are now raising their rates so terribly high now. Has nothing to do with the new law albeit they are blaming it on that and fools like you believe them, by the way how do you explain the outrages increases over the last fifteen or more years before this law was even talked about. Wake up smell the coffee and see the scam they have been fleecing us with for years. Other that government who can stop these thieves. They have had years to police them selves and never did and now we have to do something or no one except the top five percent will be able to afford health coverage and that would place all the cost on government and surely bring our economy down, So quit BS’s us,

          • http://naver samurai

            Same old lib BS! If you were a Christian as you say, why can’t you go by our founding principles of self reliance, personal responsibility, and the vigilance to ensure that government remains our servents and not our masters. Also, don’t you remember what the Bible says about being slothful? Let these people work and not get handouts. If it’s so good, why have 50 unions and buisnesses (walmart, target, etc) opt our of the plan before it started? The bottom line is why. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

          • smilee

            FACTS JUST DON’T WORK WITH YOU DO THEY!! YOUR STILL SO TOTALLY CONFUSED!!

    • JimH

      jopa, If MILLIONS of Indians were slaughtered by those thousands of settlers, they must have been pathetic warriors. The black slaves were sold by other black Afrians in slave markets,but that is history. Even though your version of it is wacked. We defeated Saddam Huisan, (the guy who used poison gas on the Kurds, Was trying to build up wmd’s . was doing ethnic cleansing against his own people, sponsoring terrorist training camps) not a nice guy. Then we were fighting Alqueda insurgents there.(more not really nice guys. We didn’t go to Iraq to kill the civilians, like YOU say.

      • smilee

        Mostly the Indians were slaughtered by the US Military not the settlers including women, children and old men in large numbers this was especially true at Wounded Knee in 1890 more killed in one day than in the Oklahoma Bombing women and children made up the largest of the group shot by our solders that day. Who ever the slavers bought the slaves from in Africa does nothing to justify their sale and use here by some who called themselves Christians. The Indians where up against a very strong military and of course they also destroyed their food supplies and starved them. Many settlers actually fed them at times. There is no justification for our governments behavior. You also do not see a monument to them at wounded knee as you do in Oklahoma City after the bombing. These facts change in your mind what you said.

  • a grandma

    what part of the first amendment do these judges not understand:congress shall make NO LAW …. religion, nor prohibiting the FREE EXPRESSION thereof!!!

    @Rob I am offended by your blanket condemnation of Christianity, and saddened by your lack of knowledge about TRUE Christian principles. I myself have often said that some of Christianities worst enemies are those who claim to be Christian but do not understand the lessons of the life of Christ.

    I don’t understand the rational behind “pro Choice for abortion” and anti choice for what kind of medicine or medical procedure I wish to use for my own health care or weather I can smoke in a privately owned restaurant, or put salt in the food I serve,etc.

    No christian wants to deny health care to anyone, but we disagree that it should be the responsibility of a GOVERNMENT body.. I believe if we Christians had been more CHRISTIAN years ago there could have been much less “Government welfare” and much more christian charity which would have given not just a mouth full of food but a spirit of responsibility accountability and self worth that helps givers feel and act more generous, recipients feel more responsible and empowered and civilization more humane /Christlike.
    We all need to recognize that because I get my morals and rights and direction from God and Christ, you get it from yourself or what ever you believe in,it should not lead us to name call or slander because we don’t agree on every issue(paraphrasing a founder)[I may disagree with what you think and say but I will defend with my life your right to think and say it.]
    that said, we need to say it in a way that addresses the ideas and words and forgo making derogatory assumptions and conclusions about a persons motives.
    You may not appreciate this, but In my heart I say God bless you.

    • smilee

      Grandma

      Congress has made no laws ever on this issue, the Supreme Court by authority of the Constitution interprets the meaning of the constitution. They interpreted it to mean there is a separation of Church and state even though to come to that conclusion the word separation was not necessary to make separation their interpretation. They believed that is what the founders intended and thus they ruled that way and that makes separation constitutional, your interpretation just does not apply as you do not have that authority. I understand you do not agree or do not like that interpretation but you are obligated to respect the rule of law and this is the law and how the rule of law evolves.

      • http://naver samurai

        Seperation of church and state? Please show me the paragraph that says seperation of church and state. Bzzzzz, it’s not there. Remember this smilee:

        Church of the Holy Trinity vs. U.S. 1892. The SCOTUS ruled: “This is a Christian Nation.”

        FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

        • smilee

          YOUR ACUTE CONFUSION SURE KEEPS YOU IN THE DARK!!!

  • http://marcum@wildblue.net coal miner

    Attention,

    …The principal Founding Fathers–Washington, Jefferson, Adams, Franklin–were in fact deeply suspicious of a European pattern of governmental involvement in religion. They were deeply concerned about an involvement in religion because they saw government as corrupting religion. Ministers who were paid by the state and paid by the government didn’t pay any attention to their parishes. They didn’t care about their parishioners. They could have, they sold their parishes. They sold their jobs and brought in a hireling to do it and they wandered off to live somewhere else and they didn’t need to pay attention to their parishioners because the parishioners weren’t paying them. The state was paying them. I think I made my case.

    • JimH

      Miner, SOURCES, you think you made you case. You think wrong.

    • http://naver sook young

      Coal Miner could you state your sources please and not try lying about our founding fathers? If you read what they said and wrote, you’ll always see a reference to God, Jesus, the Bible, or Christianity (religion). Why are you lying so much? You are not a good American! Thank you.

      Sook Young
      Wife of the Samurai

      • http://marcum@wildblue.net coal miner

        sook young,

        You are about the dumbest thing on here.You beat that stupid husband of yours.John Adams for example was a Unitarian,it is a church that embraaces atheism,Deism,and pantheism.most Unitarians today are mostly agnostic.Personally I think you and your husband are the same person. I think you keep changing your identies to give yourself legitimacy. In other wordsI think your are are phoney and fraud.So spare me the insults,it makes you look ignorant.

        • http://marcum@wildblue.net coal miner

          I meant Identities.

        • http://marcum@wildblue.net coal miner
          • http://marcum@wildblue.net coal miner

            sook young,

            Unitarianism – Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

            So, too, Unitarianism does not accept the Godhood of Jesus, ….. Many Hungarian Unitarians embrace the principles of rationalist Unitarianism. …
            en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unitarianism

          • http://naver samurai

            That would be hard to believe by how many times he mentions God, religion, the Bible, and Jesus. Wrong answer and you and rob are the most ignorant of the ones here. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

      • Karolyn

        Did you know that Jefferson cut up the Bible, leaving only Jesus’ teachings, which book became known as the Jefferson Bible? He did not believe that Jesus was the son of God but did believe in the teachings of Jesus. He cut out all the miracles, including the virgin birth. He believed that the original Christianity had become corrupted and wanted nothing to do with it. There is a great deal of info on this online.

        • http://marcum@wildblue.net coal miner

          Karolyn,

          You are right on target,don’t let these idiots get to you.The Bible is made up of numerical codes and symbols.Do you know that Adam and Eve were atoms,weren’t real people.That battle of Jericho was the destruction of matter,not all matter was destroyed, the whore was spared.Women were portrayed in ancient wisdoms as matter.Mary-Mia womb in space,Abraham’s sphere, hole in space.Satan,matter.Matter to the ancient uneducated was evil.Matter killed spirit, spirit become matter. Matter as we all know can be coverted to energy.These numer codes and symbols appear not only in the Bible,but in other mythologies as well.It is ancient wisdom we just now relearning.If you have time,order the book by Lloyd M.Graham(Deceptions and myths of the Bible)You won,t regret it.The Bible and other mythologies were not meant to be a religion,it had hidden meanings and codes to be crack in the future.We are doing it now.

          1 Moses;Evolution of life

          2 Adam and Eve: naked atoms

          3 Satan: energy and matter

          4 God: good and evil

          5 Saul: twilight of sun

          6 Samuel: gives meaning

          7 David the sun at it its height

          8 Solomon:Brightest ray of the sun

          9 Samson:The birth and light of the sun,when it grows dark.

          10 Christ.the sun of God,not the son.

          11 Delilah: Doorway to darkness; descendant of Lilith the debilitating one
          Delilah is the destroyer of the sun.

          12 The Serpent: wisdom and knowledge,not the Devil.I hope you find this interesting and order Mr. Graham’s book.Have a nice day.

        • http://naver samurai

          Cite your source! Cite your source! FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

  • http://SANCHEZMANUEL7@comcast.net linda and rudy

    The bible says there is no salvation in any other except the name of Jesus. the cross is to remind people of what Jesus did for us
    He died so we would not have to and gives all believers
    eternal life, I REST MY CASE

    • Richard Pawley

      Sadly, many of those who oppose Jesus on this site have never taken the time to read what He himself said in the four gospels (the remembrances of the four people who wrote them) or ACTS which follow it as an example of what true Christianity is supposed to be like. Sadly some here seem blinded by cults or contaminated by quasi-Christians and they look at churches and not at what Jesus himself taught. Once Jesus told a woman in England about 80 years ago, “That all of my followers know and love the simple rules I taught when I lived on earth as a man. Many of them would be confused by all the rules of your churches. In all things simplify!” That is from the wonderful paperback classic GOD CALLING or it’s sequel GOD AT EVENTIDE edited by A. J. Russell that each contain over 350 things that Jesus taught this follower of His before we were born. I think you would enjoy them.

  • jopa

    Jimh;The Indians were not pathetic warriors they were just outgunned when they had to go up against repeating rifles with bow and arrows.Saddam Hussein used mustard gas against the kurds how terrible to use such an inhumane weapon against another human.Do you know where he got the gas from,Uncle Sam gave him the gas to use on the Iranians.He was building WMD is another bogus claim.There were weapons inspectors in the country of Iraq for months and there was nothing found and ten years later we still haven’t found any.Where do you get you Bogus info from Fox news or the new history books just printed in Texass.

    • JimH

      jopa, you claimed MILLIONS of Indians were killed. If there were MILLIONS of them they should have defeated the settlers. It doesn’t matter where Saddam got the gas, he used it on his own people, that IS the point. The fact he gassed the Kurds shows at one time he had wmd’s, how can you say he didn’t when we know he used them. He also had terrorist training camps in his borders and while knowing about them did nothing to stop it. You didn’t refute that our goal wasn’t to kill civilians, even though in you post you said”We have the ability to go into places like Iraq and slaughter their people. Are you saying we did that we did that or we have the ability. Where do you get YOUR ideas?

    • Antonio

      hey jopa your comment is the funniest and the stupidest of all. indians outgunned by repeating rifles jajajajaja im still laughing at your stupidity man jajajajaja Do you think the settlers had uzi 9mm or galil 223 oh i know maybe they had barrett .50′s.
      Just to let you know the indians could shoot 5 arrows with accuracy in the same time a settler could fire “1″ shot from his black powdered rifle. Where did you get your bogus info from??? must be those public schools agian.
      but thank for the laugh jajajajajajajajjajajajajajajajaja

  • Antonio

    I was just curious, If a federal judge can rule a cross as unconstitutional; then why can’t he rule that property taxes and other such taxes as unconstitutional when they are??? How about using tax dollars as charitable things like food stamps, wic, section 8 housing, grants, and the list goes on, all that is unconstitutional is it not?

  • Antonio

    Hey COAL MINER, I read in a previous post of yours why you said somthing about lucifer being the morning star. Well i have a series of videos that you may love to watch because i explain how VENUS is key for the NWO. Everything they do is done on the venus evening star or mourning star and dont forget about the 11 year sun spot cycle. My youtube channel is as http://www.youtube.com/frombabeltoireland

  • http://yahoo cayita

    I’m so frustrated. Just lost everything I wrote. Maybe I need to try and get it in a nutshell. I pray to God to help us, the same God our forefathers believed in, the same God that is/was mentioned in our beginning documentation of who we were to be as a country. It was not to be a deceitful, lying snake in the grass, or a pansy trying to ingratiate or buy his way into good graces of people and countries that have disdain for us and that we should have disdain for. I would be ashamed to be seen with him. Lucky that’ll never happen. What it must be like for our poor soldiers that have to put on smiling faces on the occasions he has a photo-shoot scheduled. To have to act like you respect and are proud to be around our so-called Commander/Chief when knowing he doesn’t give a damn about this country, holds us in disdain, wants to take away our liberty. My God, it must be horrible to have to smile into the face of one of the worst enemies this country has ever had. We have really screwed up, letting Obama into office and now we’re going to pay, and pay, and pay. The man’s an idiot, but he’s a dangerous idiot. We’re in big trouble. I pray for us to be able to hold on until we can try and undo some of the damage he’s done.

  • http://PersonalLibertyDigest Wiselady

    Wiselady says:
    5-12-11

    The cross named in Spanish,Soledad,which means solitary, was built on a high mountain in La Jolla, California, overlooking the beautiful Pacific Ocean and on the east side are the Laguna Mountains where it snows in the winter. It is considered one of the most magnificent sites in the state,visited every year by millions of tourists.It was a smaller cross until the current higher cross was built, about 25-30 years ago and now towers high into the blue skies, lit at night and it serves a very beautiful and necessary purpose.

    The Mount Soledad Cross always served as a beacon of light on foggy nights for pilots who took off from the well known Naval Air Base during the War in the Pacific, flying above it so that they could be on their way to protect us from the enemy. No one was bothered by it until the liberals and the ACLU were given recognition by our liberal media, colleges, elected officials,who in turn appointed liberal judges that now rule against a long standing beautiful monument that gives our service men and women of all faiths, the rightful recognition. Pictures of those who served are displayed on curved walls that surround the cross below as you reach the top of the steps. I am always deeply touched by the viewing of the cross and the commemoration dedicated to those who have served our country. There are many different religions, including Jews, represented throughout the pictures showing rank, where they served and a brief description of their heroic contribution going back to World Wars, Korea, Vietnam and other parts, too numerous to mention. I am privilege to live not too far from it so I visit the cross frequently to show respect to those who served, especially friends, one a medical doctor who served in World War Two and Korea.

    There is a Jewish organization that supports maintaing the cross but its name escapes me at the moment. Their efforts show there is harmony
    and dignity that brings us together to honor our military heroes.

    My solution on saving the cross? Raise funds and donate it to the veterans who worked hard to build the walls with pictures and true stories of valor. No price is too high for the property on which the historical Mount Soledad Cross Stands. It has already been delcared a National Monument. I will get their name and address so you we can initiate the fund raising to save the Mount Soledad Cross or contact Cogressmen Hunter and Issa,of Diego County who already know about the issue to get the name of the veterans group. Congressman Hunter is also a veteran. I am sure they will be more involved.

    Suggestions: Write, e-mail or call Qualcom in San Diego to give the the Irwin Jacobs family, who founded Qualcom,a message,to stop donating to the ACLU. Irwin and Joan donated $300,000,000 last year to the ACLU,a very strong organization and proponents of removing everything that represents Christianity. I am making my call tomorrow. We must get to the source of the problem….too much money going into attacking Christianity. Second suggestion: impeach the juge who ruled against the Cross!. I/we have had it!!

  • http://buddhismis.com/entry/register?Target=discussion%2F311%2Fthe-right-aspiration Buddhist Advice

    hey there and thanks for your information ? I’ve certainly picked up anything new from right here. I did however experience a few technical issues using this site, as I experienced to reload the web site many times prior to I could get it to load correctly. I have been puzzling over if your hosting is OK? No longer that I’m complaining, but slow loading instances times will sometimes impact your placement in google and can damage your quality rating if advertising and marketing with Adwords. Well I am adding this RSS to my email and could look out for a lot extra of your respective exciting content. Make sure you update this once more very soon..

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