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Appeals Court Delays Enforcement Of San Francisco Same-Sex Marriage Ruling

August 20, 2010 by  

Appeals court delays enforcement of San Francisco same-sex marriage ruling Just days after a lower court gave the green light for gay marriage ceremonies to resume in California, the United States Court of Appeals in San Francisco has imposed a stay pending a review of the ruling that overturned Proposition 8.

The ruling, issued earlier this month by U.S. District Judge Vaughn Walker, stated that Proposition 8 — a voter-approved measure that bans same-sex marriage in the state — violates constitutional equal protection rights. However, it drew ire from socially conservative organizations, which claimed that it undermined the traditional institution of marriage.

As a result, these groups had a reason to celebrate after a string of setbacks at the district-court level.

“Today the 9th Circuit took the first step in doing the right thing for the people of California and the tens of millions across the U.S. who not only believe in true marriage but also in the rule of law,” said Tony Perkins, president of Family Research Council (FRC).

In issuing the latest ruling, the Court of Appeals scheduled a hearing of the arguments from both sides for the week of Dec. 6, according to media reports.ADNFCR-1961-ID-19926847-ADNFCR

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  • Red

    I have YET to see ONE argument from the Prop 8 crowd that proves that allowing gays to marry will somehow ‘undermine’ marriage. They had their chance to show how in court and they couldn’t-they had NO EVIDENCE to show it it.

    • http://?? Joe H.

      Red,
      Quit trying to get us to validate your perversion!!! I’ll approve of it when you show me in the King James version of the Bible where it says same sex marriage is acceptable!!! IN THOSE WORDS, BUBBA!!!!

      • Reena

        haven’t you ever heard of separation of church and state?

        AND don’t forget that the bible ALSO says that he who is without sin shall cast the first stone.
        So, leave Jesus out of this. He would accept gay people more willingly than he would accept any of the people supporting prop 8 who are full of hate and judgement.

        Don’t you remember ANYTHING from the bible besides the one or two passages you base your argument on?
        Don’t try and spit Bible arguments at anyone because by showing the amount of hate and narrow-mindedness many of the prop 8 supporters display is NOTHING that the bible teachings would support.

        Just let people be happy in their own way.
        It has nothing to do with you or your life.

        • dan az

          Reena
          It has allot to do with our lives.Its forced down our throats (no pun intended) this is now taught in grade school to our children that fudge packing is alright if you love some one and carpet munching is fine if your girl friend likes it,Its just not for everyone so put it back in the closet where it belongs.Just because you think your perversions are ok with Jesus then how about the child molester he feels its alright or the bestiality group would you have this taught to your children too.I dont think so and its not all right to teach our children that you perversion is all right either.

          • slickporsche

            Sorry Dan but this kind of behavior is not ok with Jesus.

          • Jimmy G

            Well said Dan.

          • Karolyn

            You’re comparing apples to oranges.

          • Claw

            Four things.

            One, just because you want to brainwash your kids to make them hate homosexuals just like you do doesn’t mean you should have the right to do so, any more than the homosexuals have the right to say their side of the argument.

            And by the same token, just because you DON’T think those things are right doesn’t mean they aren’t, so perhaps you should stick your intolerance back in the closet rather than telling other people to stick their sexuality in the closet.

            Also, I don’t care what Jesus thinks because I don’t care about Jesus whatsoever, so don’t try to force your religious dogma on me.

            Finally, I while pedophilia is demonstrably harmful, I don’t believe the same can be said about bestiality. So, you know? I don’t have any problem teaching kids to respect zoosexuals. After all, I think teaching your kids tolerance and the ability to not shove their opinions down others’ throats is just fine, thanks.

          • Kinetic1

            Claw,
            The generally accepted principle is that children and animals are innocents and should be protected. This is the foundation that rebuffs the assumption that allowing homosexuality will result in the legalization of pedophilia and bestiality.

            As to the question of what is taught in school. I have yet to see a grade school that teaches anything more than acceptance for the idea of two parents of the same sex. Even at the higher levels, sex ed is not about methods, but about the biological and health aspects of sex. Some of you seem to suggest that your students have been handed a copy of the Kamasutra as a text book! If you don’t like the idea of your children being taught about sex in school, request that they be excused from class, but please be certain that you teach them more than just abstinence. In my years working with youth, I have seen too many kids who gave in to their urges and end up pregnant or ill. I understand your principles and religious beliefs, but ignoring the possibility that your child might have a weak moment can be devastating in today’s world.

          • http://?? Joe H.

            immovable1,
            I taught both of my girls abstinence and the youngest one is 20 and never been pregnant. My 30 year old was pregnant once at about 24 years old and had a miscarriage!! Can you say the same about the ones that have had sex-ed in middle school??? when I was in school in the 60s we had maybe two girls get pregnant. Now you walk through that same school and see 10 or 12 at a time!!! I guess abstinence does work if you aren’t afraid to be part of your kid’s life!!! I personally know two kids that were pregnant at 15 in the same school as my youngest. One used to be my daughters best friend. No, I didn’t make her leave and neither did my kid. I just think when my daughter wasn’t as permiscuous as her she decided not to hang around with her anymore!!

          • Kinetic1

            Joe,
            I didn’t say don’t teach them abstinence, just consider the risks of leaving them to find out about the dangers on their own. I have raised my kids and guided others with a very clear understanding about sex. I believe all kids should wait, but I do more than just warn them that it is a sin. I explain the emotional aspect of sex. I warn them that they will have and break up with several boy/girl friends in their lives, and that sex can make the experience much more painful. I warn them about the dangers of STDs and the fact that your partner may be unaware that they are infected. That fact alone should be taught to EVERYONE. Who wants to be engaged and then find out that their partner is HIV positive and didn’t know?

            Abstinence is a great way to prevent pregnancy, illness and emotional pain and no one teaches it more than the Catholic church. Given that, why was the abortion rate per capita was higher in Catholics than Protestants in a 2001 survey? One explanation from a Catholic teen is that both contraception and abortion are sins, but taking the pill means sinning 275 days a year where as abortion is maybe once a year. It’s silly and convoluted, but this is a teenage mind trying to grasp religious dogma. Maybe their parents were not as involved as you, or it could be that their children were more defiant. Either way, lack of guidance and information lead them to a very troubling conclusion. Worse still, because of their belief about contraception, they left themselves open to STDs.

          • http://?? Joe H.

            ken1,
            Then why did the teen pregnancy rate skyrocket when they started disallowing prayer in school and teaching sex ed in middle school??????

          • Reena

            So, simply because I support gay marriage, you automatically think I’m a lesbian? Silly person. That’s way too biased for someone with an intelligent argument to make.

          • http://naver samurai

            Claw, if you don’t mind, could you come up with some facts and sources to back up what you say? Take your atheist, gay loving, lib comments and stick where the sun don’t shine. Since you seem to be gay, you’ll know where I mean!

        • http://naver Samurai

          Sorry Reena but remember what it says and what we are told: “Hate the sin and not the sinner.” Just because I know gay lifestyle to be perverse and wrong in the eyes of God, that doesn’t mean I want to kill them all. I don’t hate the person, just the lifestyle. If you agree with their way of doing things, then either you are gay or someone close to you is. If it’s the second one, be a real friend and get them to go to church and read the Bible. If it’s the first one, then you need to be the one that goes. Remember, gays have the same rights under the Constitution as any other American and can marry anyone they want. It just has to be someone of the opposite sex. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

          • Karolyn

            I’ve posted this before. I have a dear friend who is gay. He’s a great guy and had a long term relationship with his partner before he died. He is also a Christian and conservative. I debate with him all the time. Most of his friends are straight, and he is accepted in his community. He realized he was gay when in high school, and it had nothing to do with anything he learned in school. If you ever listen to gays talk about when they realized, you will note that they always say they felt different but didn’t know what it was. THEY DID NOT CHOOSE TO BE GAY!!! And you are crude and vulgar. If your head is in the gutter, that’s the way you think. Just becuse a kid is taught the facts of life (all the facts) doesn’t mean he’s gonna run out and do them all!

          • Kinetic1

            Samurai,
            I understand that your faith requires you to proselytize, but your beliefs are not the basis for our laws. Yes, I know many gay people, some couples and some singles. I know happy families with gay parents and well adjusted children, gay members of our church (yes, it’s christian) and others that I do not care to associate with. In other words, people just like everyone else. Good, bad, religious or not, sexual orientation is not a harbinger of anything bad. And while I understand that your religious views conflict with this, and while I understand that your heart is in the right place, those of us who are accepting of the gay community would never assume to tell them they are wrong, or agree to legislation requiring them to hide from society any more than we would agree to legislation forcing your church to accept them.

        • MsAmericanPatriot

          No Jesus would NOT accept gays. He came to uphold the law and the prophets NOT surpass them. Homosexuality is CONDONED in BOTH parts of the Bible. Reena quit drinking the kool aide, token on the wacky weed and reading the satanic NIV Bible.

          • Karolyn

            OMG. How can you be so audacious to say that Jesus would not accept gays?

          • http://naver Samurai

            Karolyn, I think she means that he wouldn’t accept their lifestyle, not them. Being gay is against God’s plan and is punishable by hellfire and brimstone. You can disagree with me all you want, but deep down you know I, the Bible, God, Jesus, etc., are right.

          • Kinetic1

            MsAmericanPatriot
            OK then, which is right? The NRSV, the REB, CEV, ESV, TEV, HCSB, NASGB, NKJV, NJB, which is the “right” translation? While we’re at it, what about the decisions made by the Council of Nicaea, and all the scribes and ancient scholars who are now known to have made a mistake here and there? Are you really so certain that you can speak for Christ?

            By the way, you said, quite firmly that “Homosexuality is CONDONED in BOTH parts of the Bible!”. Does this mean that you have found proof that being gay is ok in the eyes of God?

          • Dee

            Karolyn, Jesus will in fact not accept gays remember in order to be accepted by Jesus you must first turn away from your sins, and Jesus finds homosexuality to be an abomination.

        • krodman

          Reena,

          MsAmericanPatriot is correct in that Jesus would not have condoned the lifestyle; however, He also would not have turned anyone away. We can actually see this as fact in Matthew 4:23. It says, “And Jesus went about all Galilee, teaching in their synagogues, preaching the gospel of the kingdom, and healing all kinds of sickness and all kinds of disease among the people.” (NKJV)

          I can’t stress enough how important it is to do word studies. For example, the word used for disease is malakia (mal-uh-kee-uh), and it literally means the effeminate partner in a male-male relationship. Jesus looked at such people as needing to be delivered and healed. So while He did not come into the world to condemn the world, He also clearly does not support or condone such acts of perversion.

          The Bible makes a clear distinction betwen homosexuals and sodomites, which can be seen in 1 Corinthians 6:9. A homosexual is one who plays the passive submissive role, where the sodomite plays the dominate role. Essentially, with a homosexual, a male becomes a female, and in so doing becomes deceived as Eve was deceived. Whereas with a sodomite, he is not deceived, he is blatantly sinning against God, and doesn’t care that his Creator abhors such acts, and doesn’t care how he might do longterm damage to the health of his victim.

          Furthermore, lesbianism is not similar in that one is deceived (victim), and another is willfully sinning (perpetrator). Lesbianism is a judgment from God, brought on by worshipping and serving the creation, rather than the Creator (Romans 1:24-26); of course the male-male relationship can be, too.

          I do hope you will spend time in prayer seeking the Truth on all of these things, because the Truth is not a what, but rather a Who, and He will elighten your heart with all knowledge of God through His Holy Spirit. Eternity is a long time to be wrong!

          • http://YouTube.com/CanadaLarry Lawrence Edward Calcut

            What you just said has a whole lot of real truth and I’m going to copy your text and try to make a YouTube type video with your comments. Photo illistrations would not be possible so it will just be white text on black background. First I will look for more data from other people who have commented on the subject.

        • Gotguns

          REENA-

          You asked “haven’t you ever heard of separation between church and state”……yes, from people that just want to tread upon this country. You tout this as if that is actually written in our Constitution….please, enlighten us all as to where the Constitution says this?

          http://www.usconstitution.net/constnot.html#church

          The Separation Of Church and State

          The phrase “separation of church and state” does not appear anywhere in the Constitution. Thomas Jefferson wrote that the 1st Amendment erected a “wall of separation” between the church and the state (James Madison said it “drew a line,” but it is Jefferson’s term that sticks with us today). The phrase is commonly thought to mean that the government should not establish, support, or otherwise involve itself in any religion. The Religion Topic Page addresses this issue in much greater detail.

          Thanks to Pat Roche for the idea.

          The Separation Of Powers Clause

          Though it may be implied or even directly stated in some news reports, blog postings, or web sites, there is no clause of the Constitution that is called the “Separation of Powers Clause.” This is because there is no one clause that says “separation of powers” or “checks and balances” or any other phrase that is used synonymously. The concept of the Separation of Powers is written into the first three articles of the Constitution, as detailed elsewhere.

          Thanks to Eric Zuesse for the idea.

          The Wall of Separation

          Often when someone speaks of the constitutionally guaranteed right to religion, they also speak of “the wall of separation between church and state,” or simply as “the separation of church and state.” What does this mean, and what is the origin of this phrase?

          It did not take long after the passage and ratification of the 1st Amendment for people to start interpreting it to simply mean that that federal government had no business getting mixed into religion. Of course, there is more to it than that, especially when it comes to the individual right part of the amendment. But the notion that the government should not become enmeshed in religion is an important concept, too. There is nothing in the Constitution that specifically says that there is a wall of separation between religion and government. The Wall, however, is a nice shorthand metaphor for non-establishment.

          One of the founding fathers, Thomas Jefferson, is directly responsible for giving us this phrase. In his 1802 letter to the Danbury Baptist Association, then-President Jefferson used the phrase — it was probably not the first time, but it is the most memorable one. He said:

          Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between man and his god, [the people, in the 1st Amendment,] declared that their legislature should make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof, thus building a wall of separation between church and state.

          Jefferson did not have a hand in the authoring of the Constitution, nor of the 1st Amendment, but he was an outspoken proponent of the separation of church and state, going back to his time as a legislator in Virginia. In 1785, Jefferson drafted a bill that was designed to quash an attempt by some to provide taxes for the purpose of furthering religious education. He wrote that such support for religion was counter to a natural right of man:

          … no man shall be compelled to frequent or support any religious worship, place, or ministry whatsoever, nor shall be enforced, restrained, molested, or burthened in his body or goods, nor shall otherwise suffer, on account of his religious opinions or belief; but that all men shall be free to profess, and by argument to maintain, their opinions in matters of religion, and that the same shall in no wise diminish, enlarge, or affect their civil capacities.

          Jefferson’s act was passed, though not without some difficulty, in Virginia. Eyler Robert Coates wrote that the act was copied in the acts or constitutions of several states, either in words or in concepts. Jefferson himself was in France by the time word of the act reached Europe, and he wrote back to America that his act was well-thought of and admired.

          Jefferson’s letter specifically pointed out by the Supreme Court in Reynolds v US (98 US 145 [1878]). For details on Reynolds, see the next section. It has been a notable metaphor for the 1st Amendment’s non-establishment concept ever since.

          • JK

            That was written so the government could not deter the freedom of worship….. which by the way, it is.

          • http://naver Samurai

            What does being in an abnormal relationship have to do with separation of church and state?

        • Bob

          If you believe in the separation of church and state if a church doesn’t want to marry ” gays ” then how could the gov’t force them to?

          • Karolyn

            Did anybody say they could be forced?

        • argue

          Jesus said “obey all my fathers laws,” not just to not judge others behaviors, If we of faith are to allow this coverage of sinful action in this country a pall will be over this great nation, there is no foundation in saying that there is a seperation of church and state, that was not the flavour of the law in writting the constitution, the founding fathers never saw this one coming, and the last thing we need is a Godless government. seperation of church and state was to prevent the church heads from being in power, has not to do with us lesser vassels, We the people do have the constutional right to self govern

          • Karolyn

            There’s already a pall over this country.

          • Kinetic1

            Several states in the 18th century had an “official” church. This was the cause of much concern, as this church, having the power of both a majority of citizens and governmental power tended to ostracize those who were followers of other religions, or held no religious beliefs. This was, among other issues the reason for the 1st amendment. You suggest that our founders wanted to “prevent the church heads from being in power”, but this was, of course not possible. Many church leaders would influence our political leaders or become political leaders them selves. Therefore the goal seems to have been to keep the leaders of any one church from governing according to their own beliefs, as they did in some states.

            That which our founders sought to protect us from is exactly what the fundamental Christians in America are attempting today. Assuming that you are the majority voice, and armed with your members of the House and Senate, you strive to govern the actions of all Americans based on your beliefs. Your President gave money to church organizations to provide aid to the poor, and those groups used this as an opportunity to proselytize. Your Congressmen block bills to provide medical aid because they demand that teach abstinence be enforced. Your leaders claim that God has brought floods to the south and earthquakes to the west because we tolerate “deviants”. You threaten us with hell fire and damnation, you point to your Bible and tell us that we are all in violation of a greater law, but these are not the crusades. You do not have the right or the power to force us to live by your rules. Even if the majority of Americans are Christian, they do not all share your beliefs. We are all free to live as we choose, so long as our actions do no harm to others. This is common law, and despite the claims of the church it is not based in Christianity. This is the wall of separation.

        • Lloyd Revalee

          There is nothing in the Bible that says anything about separation of Church and States. What it says, and this in an Amendment, Congress shall make no law respecting an establishent of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof. I am not in favor of, and do not understand homosexuals, but I think that the problelm regarding same sex marriages should be up to a vote by the people. Another Amendment to the Constitution should be mandatorry if it is to be permitted. I do not think that some one Judge has the power or the right to make decisions such as this.

          And, I wish people would stop calling homosexuals “gays”, taking a pleasent work of our language and turning it nasty.

        • Menu Bar

          God created them male and female, not male and male
          God says that homosexuality is an abomination
          It is sinful – missing the mark, and He hates it
          Jesus was God, so Jesus would say homosexuality is a sin
          Repent, now is our time of grace

          • Red

            Jesus said NOTHING about homosexuality.

            Using the bible as your argument says more about you than it does about God. It suggest you’re unable to form your own opinion and are using scripture as an excuse for denying gay couples equal marriage rights. Also, we are not a theocracy, where the law is dictated by scripture.

            In short, you’re pushing all responsibility for your words onto God and not taking responsibility for what you say.

          • http://naver Samurai

            How do you know this Red? Is that your name or your political affiliation (commie)? State your sources and cite them for us. It even says that: “In the end days men shall turn away from their natural affections for the woman. His hear shall burn unaturally for another man. And a woman for another woman.” This is what Jesus told St. John the Divine while he was imprisoned on the island of Patmos, so what other proof do you need? Why don’t you actually take time and sit down to read the Bible. You may actually have your eyes opened to the real truth and not the ignorant rantings you post on this site. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

        • JK

          There is no such thing as “separation of Church & state” written within the Constitution. Just a perverse twisting of words by self-serving, left wing socialists who hate our country.

        • Bob from Socal

          You can try all you want to discount what the Bible says about Homo sexuality, but that doesn’t change the fact that the Bible does say that it is sin and an abomination. As for letting people be happy; that is what Christians truly want for all people. Its just that I don’t believe those people would be happy in the Lake of Fire. And if they do not repent that is where they will wind up. Thats not what I think, its what the Bible has to say about the matter. If you don’t like it take it up with God, not his messengers.

        • del

          Noone is casting stones. No one is being put to death. Just because someone disagrees doesn’t make them full of hate. True Juesus loves us all but, He also expects us to choose between right and wrong according to his word. That is not being judgemental, that is standing up fo what we believe in. In this case, it is the word of GOD.

      • JD

        Y’all just need to get back in the closet where you belong. If we were to back down on Prop. 8 and you won, that’s just the next step in your convoluted HOMO agenda.

        Next, you want it taught to my child in school. Then we can promote child porn(yippee!), then incest is legalized. I’ll take each and every one of you out of this f-in world before I allow that so listen up red(blue)because you have obviously been sleeping. We’re tired of it and we’re not going to take it. Back to the closet with you! Oh, and read the Holy Bible if you really want to know why you’re wrong. I’m not going to look up yhe passages for you but the good book does have an index and table of contents just as any other book does. Educate yourself and repent of your sins. Hear the good news of Jesus Christ and be saved. He died for your sins, afterall. Mine too! God Bless all of us! Oh, and impeach Obama!

        • Red

          The ‘homosexual agenda’ is to be recognized by the United States as a married couple and to be treated equally.

          Is heterosexuality taught in schools to kids? Most they get is an explanation of the ‘different parts’ and how they work and later, the ‘birds and the bees’. If they aren’t taught about heterosexuality, why would they be taught about homosexuality?

          Incest is illegal and with valid reason.

          I am not a Christian and religion should NOT be a deciding factor in whether gay and lesbian couples should marry or not. The word ‘homosexuality’ never once appeared in print before the mid-late 19 century. I do not share your religious views; neither does half the country so why should yours be more valid than mine OR theirs?

          • JD

            Yes, RED, we all know know you’re likely an atheist and, based on the majority of the comments posted here, your views are opposed. We’re aware we can’t fix ‘stupid’ whether on your side or ours. With that, I bow out to further the pursuit and spreading of TRUTH as the Bible teaches it.

          • Karolyn

            Why do you insist on calling people who believe differently “stupid” and worse? Is everybody who believes differently than you really stupid? That’s a lotta people, buddy. You might want to rethink things. You just might be wr…wr…..wrong. Consider the possibility. I really don’t care what you believe, but you really could be wrong.

          • http://naver Samurai

            The gay agenda is about more than being married and you know it. They want to start there, but it is about forcing their abnormal lifestyle onto the backs of normal people. Get your facts straight before you post, moron! FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

      • Red

        First of; I’m a STRAIT WOMAN.

        Secondly; this is NOT about your religion or mine. Your religion should NOT be the deciding factor because the reality is, NOT EVERYONE in this nation shares your religious beliefs, so why should your religious views be valid in deciding this but not mine or anyone else’s? We are NOT a theocracy.

        Thirdly, the bible (the UN-DOCTORED bible, which is NOT the Kings James version) says nothing against homosexuals marrying. The word ‘homosexual’ doesn’t even appear in print until the mid-late 19th century and the original Hebrew and Latin words it replaces aren’t even CLOSE to that.

        • http://naver Samurai

          Oh, yea. Definately a candidate for another Lenin, Stalin, atheist, or maybe Saul Alinsky. Remember, communism also preached that religion wasn’t important in many issues either and look what happened to millions of people around the world because of it.

        • http://naver samurai

          You don’t understand. The Bible is God’s word and is supposed to help guide us through our daily lives. We vote because of our beliefs, act because of them, etc. What part of this don’t you understand? Take your lib, commie, atheist self and go home.

      • Robert Smith

        Joe said: >>>in the King James version of the Bible where it says same sex marriage is acceptable!!! <<<

        Nope, your religion doesn't run America.

        BTW, if your religion is so great how's come you need to have laws to make people behave the way you (or your god) want them to? Can't your god just fix it?

        Smith

        • http://naver Samurai

          Go somewhere else to peddle your load of crap. This article is talking about legislation that was voted on by the people, passed through legislation, signed by the governor and made law. Suddenly, some gay judge decided that it could be affecting him and overturned it. Now another court has set a date for debate on it. Being gay has nothing to do with this christian nation and has no protection under our Judeo-Christian written Constitution. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

          • Robert Smith

            Samurai posted: >>>This article is talking about legislation that was voted on by the people, passed through legislation, signed by the governor and made law.<<<

            Like assisted suicide in Oregon that was attacked by the right wing?
            Like medical pot?

            However, a VOTE doesn't make something legal. For example no state can vote to make slavery legal again. The courts are SUPPOSED to get rid of bad law.

            Rob

          • http://naver samurai

            First, Rob are you stuck in the timeline before 1865? You keep talking about slavery, which isn’t an important topic in today’s America. We ratified the Constitution with the 13th, 14th, and 15th Amendments, so these days slavery is a dead issue.

            Second, you say the right wing attacked pot and assisted suicide? Bzzzzz wrong again! There were many people, who weren’t GOP, who attacked these things also. “Thou shalt not kill” is one of the Commandments we live by. Committing suicide, self inflicted or assisted, is a sin in the eyes of God and it is still taking an innocent life (your own).

            Pot, along with other illegal drugs, are called illegal for a reason. They adversely affect the human body and some even kill for them when they are addicted. Enough said!

            Finally, though I understand you somewhat fanatic beliefs and wanting to destroy this country from the inside, I don’t know why people like you wish to destroy the family and family values. “As goes the family, so goes the nation.” You all should remember this was said by Julius Ceasar of Rome. By the way, he was killed for his higher moral beliefs. Are you fanatics willing to do the same to get your way off based agendas passed, hmmm?

        • http://naver Samurai

          Sorry dude, but our faith is christianity and not islam. This is a christian nation and will be this way forever into the future, so get over it and get over yourself.

          • Robert Smith

            Samurai says: >>>This is a christian nation and will be this way forever into the future, so get over it and get over yourself.<<<

            Nope. It's a nation with a lot of christians. Remember: NO STATE RELIGION.

            Besides many christians like Bishop Spong support same sex merriage.

            Rob

          • http://naver samurai

            Wrong again! Though there is no state sponsored religion, our country was founded our this faith of ours. If any christian does support gay marriage, then they are delivering a false doctrine and shouldn’t be listened to. Remember in 1889, the SCOTUS ruled that this nation is a christian nation. Get over it, because this is history and you libs cannot rewrite it.

      • Mary

        Yes Joe. Same sex marriage is Abomination, yesterday, today and tomorrow. In judgement day that will be forever clear by our Creator.

      • Bubba

        The bible has been rewritten by a man a million times. God is a loving God and would not punish 2 people who love each other. The first one without sin shall cast the first stone and or judgement!!!!
        Love is unconditional!!!!!!!

        • http://naver samurai

          Tooooooooo much kool aid!

    • JeffH

      Red, the majority people spoke, you lost so get over it! What ever happened to majority rules? I don’t really care what two men or two women want to do together but marriage is recognized as a man and a woman, and that is the way it should be.

      1) The California Constitution will be amended
      2) The only way to overturn this will be by proposing another amendment, or by it being overturned by a higher court
      3) The Supreme Court in Baker v. Nelson (1972) refused to hear a case involving Minnesota working the same language into its own state Constitution “for want of a substantial federal question” (this isn’t something that should be decided at the federal level).
      4) Since then, Baker has served as the precedent for higher courts never hearing state supreme court rulings on same sex marriage
      5) The Supreme Court has refused recently, in the case of Massachussetts, to hear same sex marriage cases
      6) Therefore, you can tell us all what you think people’s rights are/ought to be, but it doesn’t matter. Legal precedent is legal precedent, jurisprudence is jurisprudence, and facts are facts.

      The only thing that can overturn 8 is another amendment, or a substantial reversal of the Supreme Court’s policy — flying in the face of their precedent. Or perhaps federal legislation that seeks to define same sex marriage as having legal legitimacy.

      • Red

        So the majority is NEVER wrong? When the majority vote on the rights of an oppressed minority, they call that ‘mob rule’.

        In YOUR definition; it is NOT the same everywhere or for everyone. The definition of marriage has been changed many, many times through history. It emerged as a form of property rights, where women were given in marriage as wives to form alliances. Often a man would take several wives. 60-some odd years ago, it was a man and a woman of the same ethnicity. People of different religious backgrounds getting married in this country was once considered a taboo.

        Well, that was then… and this is now.

        Times were very, very different those near-forty years ago. Now? A lot has changed.

        • http://naver Samurai

          Way tooooooo much kool aid on a daily basis.

      • Robert Smith

        >>>Red, the majority people spoke, you lost so get over it!<<<

        No again. The SCOTUS is SUPPOSED to bounce bad lawmaking.

        For example, slavery can't be voted on.

        BTW, what about medical pot and assisted suicide. Those were voted on. For the suicied thing Bush sent Ashcroft out to try to overturn the VOTE of the folks in Oregon.

        Rob

        • http://naver Samurai

          By the way you keep talking about slavery, it makes me wonder if you are afro-american.

          • Robert Smith

            Samurai says wonders about my race.

            Samurai, I’m not black but I stand up for their rights.

            I’m not a woman but I support women’s rights.

            I’m not gay but I support their rights.

            I was a WASP but I’ve been saved from the “P” part. I was a member and a firearms instructor with the NRA for over 20 years and didn’t renew the year before George Bush Sr. quit.

            I’ll simplifiy it for you, Samurai: I’m pro-choice on almost everything as America should be. If it ain’t yoru business don’t mess with it.

            For example:
            I’m pro-choice on firearms.
            I’m pro-choice on sexual issues among consenting adults.
            I’m pro-choice on recreational drugs.
            I’m pro-choice on gay merriage.

            How many things are you pro-choice on Samurai?

            Rob

          • http://naver samurai

            I believe in going by what it says in the Constitution and in the Bible, to the letter. No straying from the path. Right to bear arms? Yes, as this is the 2nd Amendment to the Constitution. Of course, we both know that felons and other people don’t have that right. The average citizen does. Speech, voting, religion, etc., yes I’m for these things to, but just remember what James Madison said: “If it’s illegal, immoral, or unethical, no American shall have the right to do these things under this U.S. Constitution.” Being gay, using illegal drugs, etc., are wrong in God’s eyes and in the eyes of the American people.

      • Robert Smith

        JeffH asks: >>> What ever happened to majority rules?<<<

        When it's bad law it's supposed to be struck down by the courts. The fact is you can't vote on slavery. Besides, I see a lot of objections to "the poor" voting themselves benefits and allegedly ruining the country.

        You can't have "majority" just one way that agrees with you, Jeff. That's NOT the American way.

        Rob

        • http://?? Joe H.

          Robert Smith,
          Prochoice is just a polite way of saying you are pro abortion, the killing ofr babies!!!

          • http://naver samurai

            Right on!

    • http://naver Samurai

      There is federal legislation to back this up called “The Defense of Marriage Act.” Remember, even Clinton was against this lifestyle.

      • Bob

        Yes he preferred a cigar.

    • Jackson

      The voters in California spoke loudly and clearly (more than once) and have opted to keep the definition of “marriage” as is. The moment we allow one activist judge to have the freedom to design a law around his own lifestyle then we can’t complain when every other judge does the same. The fact is that gays DO have equal rights under the law. If they choose to marry someone of the opposite sex then they enjoy the benefits of the marriage. It boils down to their choice to marry or not marry. There are lots of single people who have chosen no to marry. You don’t see them rallying to change the definition of marriage to suit their personal choice.

      • Robert Smith

        Jackson says: >>>The moment we allow one activist judge to have the freedom to design a law around his own lifestyle then we can’t complain when every other judge does the same.<<>>In Roman Catholic theology, “transubstantiation” means the change of the substance of bread and wine into the Body and Blood (respectively) of Christ in the Eucharist…<<<

        That is not the abuse of the drug alcohol. It's ritualistic canabalism if it actually changes into the body and blood. Yuck

        Actually, isn't canabalism illegal too? Another exception for christians.

        Rob

        • http://naver samurai

          I think you need to pull your head out of the sand and try to understand the world around you.

    • slickporsche

      Well I have not seen one bit of evidence showing me that packing shit is natural or moral either.This is a moral issue, and there really is no argument and if you think there is an argument, then you are an idiot. Do you think television influences people behavior? How about children? If I had my way, there would be a $200 bounty on every queer/dead.

      • Robert Smith

        From slickporshe: >>> If I had my way, there would be a $200 bounty on every queer/dead.<<<

        Sounds like a Muslum thing to me.

        I don't think Christians go around killing folks for simple disagreement.

        Oops… What abour all those abortion doctors.

        BTW, how does gay marriage impact your marriage? Please be specific.

        Rob

        • http://naver Samurai

          Gay marriage undermines traditional family values and destroys the natural family structure as set up by God. Be quiet and take your atheist arse back to where you came from.

          • Robert Smith

            Samurai says: >>>Gay marriage undermines traditional family values and destroys the natural family structure as set up by God.<<>> Be quiet and take your atheist arse back to where you came from.<<<

            Oh now Samurai it's clear you're presuming to make stuff up. I may not believe in the abusive god you seem to think rules things but I am part of a religion. Why do you suggest falsehoods? Is that your way to "win" a discussion?

            Rob

          • http://naver samurai

            If you think I’m lying rob, them post some REAL FACTS and cite some REAL SOURCES to back them up. Your mere words mean nothing if you have nothing to back them up with.

          • http://?? Joe H.

            Samurai,
            Can you say UUA???

      • Karolyn

        You sure are slick, uh, no, sorry I meant sick! You should drop the l from your name. You sound just like an ex friend of mine (Christian) who said she would love to sit on a rooftop and shoot gays. That is about as un-American and un-Christian as you can get. Actually, it does sound more like Muslim rhetoric. Is it rubbing off on you?

        • Bob

          I know what gay men do but what do Lesbians do?

          • Robert Smith

            Bob asks: >>>I know what gay men do but what do Lesbians do?<<<

            Why are you interested? Why is it any of your business? If they were doing stuff on the sidewalk in front of your house I'm sure you wouldn't need to ask but they usually engage in sex in PRIVACY.

            Isn't that the way you have sex, Bob? I honestly don't care what you do either.

            Rob

    • Menu Bar

      How does it undermine marriage . . .
      What if I decide that I’d like two wives or
      a daughter decides she wants to marry her father or
      someone decides she wants to marry her cat or . . .

      • Zack

        ya or get a divorce.

        oh wait, THAT’S LEGAL!

        I guess the only undermining of marriage occurs on a personal level and isn’t up to legislature. woops.

      • Red

        Simple; there is a valid, proven reason for incest and polygamy are illegal in this country. What valid, proven reason is there to keep gay couples from marrying?

        • http://naver Samurai

          How is that possible, when both of them are punishable by serving time in jail? You’re really way off of base here.

    • Anker Vinje

      The federal government should stay of local issue let States control
      this issus of gay marriages!

      • Red

        There’s a problem with that, though; when the states decide things, you create an imbalance if most of those states all go the same way and others and civil unions are NOT recognized in all states-in very few, in fact. It’s not portable, so if a gay couple who married here in Massachusetts go (for whatever reason) to another state that doesn’t recognize their marriage, you’ve got a problem.

        • http://naver Samurai

          The real answer is to marry someone of the OPPOSITE GENDER and then you have no problems. What do you libs not understand about this?

          • Robert Smith

            Samurai asks: >>>What do you libs not understand about this?<<<

            Actually I'm not a liberal. I'm a Goldwater conservative. Remember him? He was the father of conservatism in America until the reich wing christians perverted it.

            Good old Barry was pro-choice on abortion, same sex merriage, and gays in the military.

            Rob

          • http://naver samurai

            So, these are the reasons he didn’t make president. Dude, I hate to tell you, but your stance on drugs, gays, etc., have nothing to do with being conservative. Being conservative means sticking to traditional values and not going for these way off base things, like the libs do. For example, christianity is a conservative belief. We don’t accept freakish behavior. We believe hate the sin and not the sinner. Since you are a sinner rob, I suggest that you go back to church and try to see the light before you start feeling some very big heat on your backside (pun intended).

      • Robert Smith

        Anker Vinje,

        Then you approve of the votes for assisted suicide and medical pot.

        Congratulations… I know the right would eventually see the light.

        Rob

        • http://naver Samurai

          Illegal drugs and assisted suicide are both wrong. You know it and so do I, so quit with the unfounded statements you are making. Cite your sources on this site, if you have any that is. You libs want to keep the good people divided and slow them down. Sorry, but I’m not stopping anytime soon. This lifestyle wouldn’t even be considered by our christian founding fathers as acceptable. By the way you sound, you must be smoking pot, committing incest, and have more than one wife at the present time. Get off of the lib nonsense before you end up feeling some great amount of heat (If you know what I mean?).

          • Karolyn

            Assisted suicide is a blessing. The US should be more like other countries which allow people to die with dignity.

          • Claire

            Although I agree with Samurai concerning assisted suicide–I have to add these comments but keep in mind I certainly KNOW the difference between human beings and animals. For example, in the past I have put several of my old Champion dogs to sleep which was the humane thing to do at the time. I could NOT let them suffer. I always hold them and tell them how much I love them and I tell them I am thankful for the joy they brought into my life and then the vet gives them the infamous injection. I cry my heart out but I will not let them die alone. I have them cremated and they will all be in my casket when I leave this life. My point is—I have often thought that when people die, sometimes they are in terrible pain, and they linger for months and the quality and dignity of life is gone. My father-in-law died a terrible, painful death. Sometimes I think it would be a blessing if a person could be put to sleep–sometimes I think this about my own life. God knows how I will die, I am glad I do not know.

          • Robert Smith

            Samurai is at it again: >>>Illegal drugs and assisted suicide are both wrong.<<>> You know it and so do I<<<

            There you go again, Samurai. I'll agree that assisted suicide is wrong for anyone who doesn't want it. That would be murder (as opposed to simple killing because we have laws opposing killing someone when they don't want to be dead (excepting executions).

            Rob

          • http://naver samurai

            Here we go again with rob and his lib rantings and unfounded facts! If assisted suicide (euthanasia) is a good thing, you must be out of your little lib mind! Remember, Dr Jack(Dr. Death) was sentenced for a long term in prison for doing such acts in Michigan. OMG! Michigan is a lib state also. Does this tell you something about how the average American feels, reguardless of which side of the coin they are on?

        • http://?? Joe H.

          Robert Smith,
          Actually I almost as far right as any here and I believe in MEDICAL Marijuana!! As long as you can PROVE you are getting it for a real medical reason, not an ingrown toenail!! Or obesity!! Now Cancer, glaucoma, tumors, constant pain, digestive disorders that keep people from eating enough, things that can stand up to two drs from different practices, then yes, DEFINATELY! Recreational use, you still take your chances!!!

          • Robert Smith

            Hi John,

            You posted: >>>As long as you can PROVE you are getting it for a real medical reason,<<<

            Is that like "proving" the necessity of an abortion to save the life of the woman?

            Medical issues are between the patient and the doctor. (that's a period at the end of the sentence)

            Are you opposed to alcohol too? Alcohol does far more damage to a person than pot. There is no such thing as an overdose. The ONLY way pot ever illed a lab rat is when a 20 pound brick was dropped on it. Pot, although habbituating, is NOT addictive. There are no hangovers from pot.

            BTW, I'm opposed to driving, etc. under any influence that will be distracting. That includes texting. (Honk if you love Jesus, text if you want to meet him.)

            And, certainly like alcohol pot isn't for kids.

            Rob

          • http://?? Joe H.

            Robert,
            Actually it’s JOE H not john!! and yes, I do want it to be a proven neccesity to protect the life of the mother!! Don’t like it? TOUGH! you just don’t want the personal responsibility of your own actions!! Grow a pair son and when you get a woman pregnant stand up to your adult responsibilities!! Or are you 15???

    • Warrior

      This concept is NOT Marriage. IF you want to refer to it as a Civil Union then fine. Marriage began in religion not through government and now same sex unions are in direct contradiction to religious teachings.

      So let the government pass out Civil Union Certificates to whomever it wants to. Mother/Son; Father/Daughter; any family pet or any other creature created by God. Although homosexuality defies the laws of nature, I do not have a problem with homosexuals living together or getting a certificate from the gov saying they can have all the financial advantages of a “Married Couple”.

      • alpha-lemming

        The (hopefully) VAST majority of people agree with that precept. Marriage is a “rite” and not a “right”. NOBODY wants to deny commited couples the perks (tax breaks, visitation, inheritance etc.) of establishing a house-hold. What the reasonable object to is being FORCED to call “this” marriage (which it isn’t…. incidentally… hetero couples married outside the church should be civil unions as well) when in reality it’s a means stroking fragile egos to grant wierdos the illusion of mainstream acceptance. We’re willing to give you the benefits and your answer is…. “NO.. You’ve got to call me married”!! Ergo…. it’s not about equality… it’s about forced condoning of faulty wiring.

        When did the “love that dare not speak its’ name” become the “love that won’t shut the $&#* up”??!!??

        • Karolyn

          Many gays feel just like many heteros that marriage is the ultimate commitment that shows the individuals’ love for each other. Persoanlly, I don’t know why the need, but that’s my opinion.

          • alpha-lemming

            Of that… I have no doubt.

          • http://naver Samurai

            There’s no other way to say it than their “love” for each other is unnatural, that’s it. No other way to say it.

    • ChuckL

      For over 2000 years marriage has meant a union of man and woman to perpetuate the human race by having children and educating them to the then prevalent standards.

      Any species that requires the joining of two sexes to procreate and instead promotes only single sex unions has doomed itself to extinction. Since procreation is not possible in a single sex union that union is NOT MARRIAGE.

      Since it is really queer that any species would doom itself to extinction, I suggest “queeriage” as the name for this new same sex union.

      • http://YouTube.com/CanadaLarry Lawrence Edward Calcut

        @ ChuckL. Oh ChuckL, you are one brilliant fellow. your defination is absolutely priceless. Thanks.
        Now, how do we make it official?
        Maybe we spell it with a capital “Q” and introduce a new words into the English vocabulary. Wonderfull. Three new words, Wow,
        “Queeriage Licence” or maybe a “Homoiage Licence” or maybe even a “Leseiage Licence”. Hey maybe even a “Creatiage Licence” for those who want to marry their pet dog.

        Now I’ll go and read the rest of the comments.

      • Robert Smith

        Hey ChuckL,

        You stated: >>>Any species that requires the joining of two sexes to procreate and instead promotes only single sex unions has doomed itself to extinction.<<<

        What! Wow a pontential convert the homosexual ranks. I know it will be tough for you Chuck, but hang in there. If homosexuality becomes the law of the land I'm sure you will adapt.

        Or, are you going to continue to breed?

        Seems to me that your generalization seems to be completely false. But that appears to be the way of objections to same sex merriage. You are forgiven if you quit messing with the lives of others.

        Rob

    • Bob

      No same sex marriage. Pull up your zippers.

  • Greg

    The government should not be so involved in this matter. The government’s role should simply be contractual, leaving it up to the people who are choosing each other to conduct whatever type of ceremony they’d like, by their church, synagogue, kitchen, beach – or heck their Librarian if thats what they’d like.

    Comments like those made by “Joe H.” and “dan az” are so childish it makes me want to start a campaign to get the government out of the marriage business altogether and just issue “civil unions” to everyone. Maybe after they’ve had their toys taken away for a while they’ll learn to play better.

    • ValDM

      Sorry, but you are so far wrong, it boggles the mind. In Genesis, the Creation Story to be exact, We’re reminded that marriage was institued by GOD. And His intention of what marriage was to be was Adam and Eve, NOT Adam and Steve.

      • Robert Smith

        ValDM says: >>> We’re reminded that marriage was institued by GOD.<<<

        Bzzzzzzzz, WRONG in America. Your god doesn't run our government. There will be no state religion.

        Why don't you move to someplace where god rules the government like Iraq? They don't like gays there either.

        Rob

        • ChuckL

          Robert,

          More than one of God’s laws has been adopted intact into civil law. Two that quickly come to mind are prohibitions on murder and theft.

          I am sure that you can think of more.

          • Robert Smith

            From ChuckL: >>>Two that quickly come to mind are prohibitions on murder and theft. <<<

            Bzzzz, wrong there ChuckL. That relationship is coincidental. Most other religions have prohibitions on murder and theft. In fact atheists can make laws agianst them too.

            It's called a social contract.

            Rob

          • http://naver Samurai

            Rob, rob, rob, you are soooooooo far out in left field that you are in the parking lot. Our christian founding fathers believed in nature and nature’s God. They instilled their beliefs into the founding of this country. If you don’t think so, I suggest that you go back and reeducate yourself on our history. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

        • http://gunner689 gunner689

          Personally, I could care less what you rump-rangers do behind closed doors. But, I don’t want to see it, hear about it, pay for it, or have it taught to my grandchildren. And last but not least, I don’t want it in my military, unless it’s in a segregated unit with pink uniforms. That way the enemy can know what’s coming their way. If that’s called intolerance then I guess I’m guilty of being intolerant. I was hoping AIDS would have settled this problem years ago.

          • dan az

            gunner689
            my sentiments exactly!!!!!

          • Karolyn

            You’d just better pray nobody from your family is struck with an incurable disease! Did you say you’re a Christian?

        • http://naver Samurai

          Robert, you are a very misguided fool. God has dominion over all the earth, everything on it, in it, in the waters, in the air, everything! Since our country is part of this planet, then God has dominion over our country. State your sources next time you post. Our religion may not run this country, but so many of our “good” leaders believe the same way we do, so buzz off and leave this site for the ones who care about this country of ours. Anyone who says that there is no God, hate God, church, etc., isn’t a good patriotic American and need to go back where they came from. Do you read me?
          FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

      • Karolyn

        I never heard the word marriage mentioned in the story of Adam & Eve.

        • http://naver Samurai

          Let’s not go there. God made Eve to be a help (wife) for Adam. If you really read your Bible, you would know this.

          • Robert Smith

            Samurai posted: >>>God made Eve to be a help (wife) for Adam. If you really read your Bible, you would know this.<<<

            Awww shucks (offensive words removed) to great effect.

            Rob

        • http://gunner689 gunner689

          Karolyn: No, I don’t remember telling anyone that I’m a Christian. I keep my spiritual side to myself. As to an incurable diseases; there is a big difference in coming down with one and intentionally backing into a bad weenie.

    • Karolyn

      You are absolutely right. I heard a conservative speaking of that this morning in a debate with a liberal. the government should have nothing to do with marriage.

    • Robert Smith

      Hi Greg,

      I agree with your statement in sentiment. We should clarify the role of the government though.

      Greg stated: >>>leaving it up to the people who are choosing each other to conduct whatever type of ceremony they’d like, by their church, synagogue, kitchen, beach – or heck their Librarian if thats what they’d like.<<<

      Government needs to assure that the participants are of legal age and otherwise eligable (not impared by alcohol for example) to make such a contract.

      It's a lot like saying abortion should be universally available. I believe in restrictions like the doctor being qualified, the facility being approved of so it meets physical standards like being clean, and equipped to handle emergencies until an ambulance can arrive.

      We can't go to extremes in deregulating everything. Anarchy isn't a social contract, it's war.

      Rob

  • Thomas Alex

    @Greg

    Then let the people ban Interracial marriage and woman Rights!

    • http://naver Samurai

      Way off of the subject dude! Way off of the subject.

    • MsAmericanPatriot

      No that is NOT way off subject and I as a woman agree with Thomas. I feel like women today are too uppity and lose. They need to be brought down to their knees. America needs their own version of Islamic shariah law to some degree. Not with the stoning and whipping parts mind you but with the dress code and submitting to men. In the Bible it tells women to submit to their men.

      • http://YouTube.com/CanadaLarry Lawrence Edward Calcut

        Dear MsAmericanPatriot, Do you have any idea what you just said about Shariah Law.
        Dear lady, the last thing America needs right now is the Muslem Shariah Laws they say they must have to take over America. If your a Moslem, or not, you must have the heard the term. “jumping from the frying pan into the fire”. Well, that’s what America will do if we ever allow Shariah Law Here. I would suguest that even a Moslem President like Obama would fear to have Shariah Law come to America. He is no fool.
        Take a few minutes to find out what “The 3 Secrets of the Quran they don’t want your to Know” has to say about Shariah Law. I think you can still find it on YouTube.com if it hasn’t already been deleted or removed. It was there 3 days ago.

      • http://naver Samurai

        Be carefull, your atheism is showing!

      • Claire

        I do not think women are “too uppity” nowadays. I call it being independent. Equal job–equal pay. My daughter works for Caterpillar, she wears a hard hat and steel-toed boots and runs a forklift. She took the only job she could get at the time and she stayed with it. She was laid off, but re-hired when Caterpillar started calling their workers back. I call this making a living. Loose women? Yes, there are women that have the morals of an alley cat. Same with men. Like my husband says–going around half-dressed leaves nothing to the imagination. It is what you can’t see that can sometimes be intriguing.

    • slickporsche

      THat is way off base and has totally nothing to do with being queer. If you are queer, you are soooo fked in the head only a bullet will solve the problem.

  • Kinetic1

    Funny thing, but the 9th circuit has made a decision and no one on this site is accusing them of legislating from the bench! Not one claim that they are a bunch of liberal activist judges!

    • Brad

      It’s funny that one federal judge over turned 7 million voters, doesn’t majority rule any longer or does it only count for liberals/progressives. The 9th circut court of appeals stayed the decision of the lower court until both sides can provide oral arguments in December, since the lower courts decision is under appeal. We’ll see who wins then, the 9th’s decision won’t be final until they decide next year.

      • Red

        Again, the rights of the minority must be protected from the tyranny of the majority. The Prop 8 crowd used invalid, baseless scare tactics to get prop 8 pushed into law.

        • Brad

          Red,

          Then you need to become the majority, bedt you would be singing a different tune if the shoe were on the other foot.

        • http://naver Samurai

          If all you’re going to do is rant, get off of this site and let the really intelligent people speak here. Like my father said: “A good leader doesn’t allow his personal feelings and/or beliefs to interfere with his good judgement.” I think you really need to ponder that situation. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

      • JeffH

        Red, you say the rights of the minority should be protected. Just an FYI, there never was a law in California recognizing gay marriage. Prop 8 would have and should stand. Nobodies “legal rights” were infringed except the majority that voted for Prop 8. It should and will become part of California’s constitution and will and should become law.

        Gay marriage will be secure only when it stems from the court of public opinion rather than a court of law. That will not happen anytime soon.

        • Robert Smith

          Awww, JeffH just doesn’t seem to get it: >>>Nobodies “legal rights” were infringed except the majority that voted for Prop 8.<<<

          Voting for slavery doesn't make it right. Voting for discrimination doesn't make it right. Voting for wars don't make them right… Oops we didn't vote for war. Sorry 'bout that.

          Rob

          • http://naver Samurai

            Sorry dude, wrong again! We didn’t just go to these wars, they were voted on by the House and Senate before we went. Senate votes:
            Afghanistan: 99 – 1 Iraq: 97 – 3 It seems that we did vote before going, doesn’t it? Get your facts stright before you post.

          • Kinetic1

            Yes Samurai, they did vote for the authorization bill, but they were lead to believe that it was to be used as a threat and unlikely to lead to an all out war. This was just the first of a string of lies the Bush administration used to get us into war. The costs, the time it would take, the loss of life, all estimates were knowingly falsified. Arial photos of “mobile labs”, nothing but BS.

            As to the actual subject on hand, I’ll say it again; Just because the voters passed the amendment does not make it constitutional. That’s why we have the high courts.

          • http://?? Joe H.

            ken1,
            Bull$hit!!! They voted to go to WAR!!! hen they found out the people didn’t completely agree with it, they tried to back peddle. Remember the I was for the war before I was against it???? That was just an attempt to cover all bases!! If you can’t see that, I know beyond a doubt you are blind as he!!.

          • http://naver Samurai

            This is getting old fast. Listen, nobody has taken away any of their rights under the Constitution. Do you understand, moron? Being gay is a choice made by being influenced by satan in their hearts. They act on it and it is wrong. I’m tired of you libs always calling for gay rights, but can never proove what family values, morals, ethics, etc., this would bring to the nation. You’ll never get true God fearing patriots to change their minds, so why are you wasting sooooooo much time on the subject? FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

        • http://gunner689 gunner689

          It’s no wonder the rag heads hate America. look at all the degradation, filth, and smut the liberals have infected our Nation with. Every social ill America has can be blamed directly on liberals. Remember their moto “If it feels good, do it.”

          • Claire

            gunner689– I think Republicans as well have had a hand in the smut that is being promoted. Neither party walks on water.

          • Robert Smith

            Gunner 689 claims: >>> Every social ill America has can be blamed directly on liberals.<<<

            Like prohibition got us organized crime?
            Like the Bush administration LIED to get us into wars?
            Like the financial meltdown we've been through?

            Rob

          • http://?? Joe H.

            Robert S.
            As far as the war, Bush lied to nobody!!! your heroes had the same intel that bush had! Clintoon even said that Saddam had to be removed when he was pres! His goof ball wife said the same thing. even ole swifty said it!! Use your head for more than something to keep your ears separated!!!

  • pennsyltuckian

    First, they are a bunch of liberal activist judges who on rare occasions get it right. Besides, since marriage is a biblical concept I don’t understand why the Anti-American Communist Lawyers Union isn’t having a fit about so called separation of church and state (a concept never included in the constitution or bill of rights). All you atheists and other perverts out there should be asking for civil unions because marriage is a religious institution and was long before the government got involved. The only reason atheists and other perverts want homo marriage is to spit in the face of religious people.

    • slickporsche

      I totally agree with that!

    • krodman

      There is no such thing as separation of church and state! You will not find that anywhere in the Constitution. The first amendment does NOT call for abolishing prayer from schools, or any other government institution or proceeding. The first amendment simply states that the FEDERAL government will not establish a NATIONAL religion, but that they will also NOT PROHIBIT the free exercise thereof. However, each individual state had, and still has, the right to establish a statewide religion. If you don’t like the religion then by all means you’re free to move somewhere else.

      Jefferson’s letter to the Danbury Baptists more-or-less stated that very thing. That the federal government could not intervene one way or other, because it could be taken that the federal government WAS establishing a national religion; however, the current position taken does that very thing. We are a country founded on Judeo-Christian principles, but our national religion today is secular humanism. So as a result of fear of doing anything to establish a national religion, a national religion was indeed established.

    • Bob

      Homos didn’t build this country into the best in the world, Christians did.

      • Red

        What about the Native Americans who live here before their land was taken away? What about the slaves, or the Jews, or the Irish, or the Chinese who came over during the 19th century and helped build the railroads.

        The founding fathers were Deists, some agnostic. We are a SECULAR nation because they KNEW, first hand the dangers of allowing religion to dictate the laws in this country.

        • JeffH

          Typical liberl rhetoric!

        • Bob

          We’d all love to live in teepees. The injuns would still be living in TPs if not for the white man. Ever try getting a 64″ tv in a wigwam.

          • Robert Smith

            Bob asks: >>> Ever try getting a 64″ tv in a wigwam.<<<

            It fits just fine in a yert along with a king size bed.

            Rob

          • libertytrain

            I’m wondering what you do with all the wiring – are there double layers of wig-wam? All those excess wires always annoy the heck out of me – :)

        • http://naver Samurai

          Sorry Red, wrong again! Only Jefferson was ever recorded as being a deist. This nation was founded by christian founding fathers, why don’t you understand that? Though Jefferson was a deist, he still held Sunday worship services in the White House the whole 2 terms he was there and so did the next president. In 1889 the SCOTUS riled that this nation is a christian nation. You lib, marxist, commie, gay loving, bleeding heart fools are the ones who need to leave this great country of ours. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

      • Karolyn

        Puhleez! How do you know? How does anybody know how many people that came before were homosexual? These days gays bring back blighted neighborhoods where hetero slumlords keep them slummy.

        • Robert Smith

          Karolyn wonders how the gays of the past can be counted.

          Here, you can watch it on TV: http://www.pbs.org/outofthepast/

          Rob

          • Karolyn

            Nobody knows how many important people in our history were gay; and we probably never will know them all.

          • Robert Smith

            >>>Nobody knows how many important people in our history were gay; and we probably never will know them all.<<<

            Just as all contemporaries were not known in real time. Rock Hudson kept his secret for a long time. So did Raymond Burr (Perry Mason), George Taki (Sulu), and David Ogden Stiers (Winchester). Shucks even old J. Edgar Hoover looks like he may have been gay. He and his right-hand man, Clyde Tolson, were constant companions for more than 40 years, even vacationing together, and both remained lifelong bachelors.

            But the fact is that approximately 10% of the male world population OF ALL ERAS are or have strong leanings to be gay. For women it's counted as less but there are more bi women. Gosh it looks like some are determined to not miss any of the fun.

            Go see: http://www.gallup.com/poll/6961/What-Percentage-Population-Gay.aspx

            Rob

          • http://naver samurai

            Yea, right. Look at how many of them die with dishonor with the AIDS virus!

    • Karolyn

      Most of the gays I know are churchgoers.

      • JeffH

        So? That doesn’t change the fact that they are gay does it?

      • http://naver Samurai

        Yes, but they ask for forgiveness and try not to commit the same sin again?

  • john

    What is normal about homosexuality?Nothing..is it natural?No..is it love?No..it’s about getting off on someone else..it’s lust and nothing else..promiscuity reigns supreme in the gay world..just look at their parades and you can see the truth of homosexual lifestyles…they worship the body(the created)not the Creator…Read Romans 1:16-32 and you will see whats happening here in the USA right now..even with the fallen priests in the Roman Catholic church..these are homosexuals but the media uses the word pedophile to steer public opinion..they rule Hollywood and the media so they have great influence on society..the only way we can save this nation is by pulling the rug out from the bottom of their feet…it all starts with the education system that has been controlled by leftist liberals for far too long,,how many parents actually look into what their children are being taught,what they’re reading..public schools are govt. schools and they’re indoctrinating our children to accept their leftist,godless,perverted agendas..what better place to undermine the family and usurp the parental authority than in public school…this is why so many college age kids voted for BONE HEAD oBAMA…EDUCATION has become de-education..he who controls the past controls the future…change the education system and we’ll change the nation..get planned parenthood and gay activist clubs out of the schools and diversity(organized racism)

    • MsAmericanPatriot

      John you are right. It is NOT natural. It does not occur in nature and what the homos think are same sex acts in nature are nothing more than showing of dominance. I have worked around wild AND domesticated animals and have seen this for myself. They are forgetting too that in some species say their beloved penguins male and female look a lot alike so there is no way to tell from a distance if it is two hes or shes getting funky or not WITHOUT stressing out the animal by DNA testing.

    • slickporsche

      Civil war is the best and most effective way to turn this sewer into a great republic again. I think that at least half to two thirds of all liberals would be killed in such an event and that would be a very positive thing.

      • Karolyn

        That is sick! How can you get pleasure from thinking about people dieing just because they have different views than you?

        • http://naver Samurai

          I’m not agreeing with slick, but we both know that the muslims think the same way.

          • Karolyn

            Not all of them!

          • dan az

            Karolyn
            if they werent then they are not muslims read the quran!

    • Red

      It IS natural and has been recorded to happen among thousands of species of animals, including primates, our closest relatives in the animal kingdom. If you can PROVE it’s not, go right ahead.

      The American Psychiatric Association, many years ago, concluded that homosexuality is a natural occurance. http://www.apa.org/helpcenter/sexual-orientation.aspx

      If you have a problem with their findings, which is backed by decades of research and study, go and complain to them.

      • http://naver Samurai

        Sorry, but being gay has to do with satan filling their hearts with unnatural thoughts. DNA and psych evals don’t hold up.

      • http://?? Joe H.

        Red
        That is why they call it the practice of psychiatry and not the science of!!!! Same with medicine! Any psychiatrist worth his weight in air will tell you there is nothing exact about their practice!!!

        • Karolyn

          You would have a hard time proving that by my Psychiatry instructor. Psychiatry IS A SCIENCE! The conclusions that the psychiatric community come to are found to be true through the Scientific Method of research. This is recognized throughout the world.

          • Karolyn

            PS – It is regarded as a “soft” science vs. “hard” science klike chemistry. Sociology is in the same boat. A great deal of research is undertaken before anything is found to be conclusive in these sciences.

          • Robert Smith

            Hi Karolyn,

            You posted: >>>The conclusions that the psychiatric community come to are found to be true through the Scientific Method of research. This is recognized throughout the world.<<<

            So is evolution but hard science hasn't convinced the creationists either. And those who are anti-gay, anti-abortion, anti-whatever, tend to also go for the crationism garbage. Jut seems to generally be part of the package.

            Rob

          • http://naver samurai

            Darwin even said that his findings were lies before he died. Sounds like he saw the light at the end.

        • Bob

          When a young boy has feminine tendencies his parents take him to a psychiatrist and he tells the boy, you’re gay. Go get some bootie.

          • Claire

            I have edited enough sociology, psychiatry, and psychology manuscripts to last a lifetime. Some were well-written and some appeared to be “off the wall.” I have arrived at the conclusion that I would think twice about dealing with some of these mental health professionals. I would certainly do my research on their background history if I ever had need for counseling, etc.

          • dan az

            Claire
            I’ll bet you that at least 99% are liberals!

    • Robert Smith

      John asks: >>>What is normal about homosexuality?<<<

      For about 10% of the population (world wide) it is their lives.

      Even Dick Chaney has a gay daughter.

      J.E. Hoover apparently liked dresses and his butler that he lived with for almost 20 years.

      Rob

      • http://gunner689 gunner689

        Oh, OK. that makes it normal. I guess I was wrong. which way to Sodom and Gamorah ?

        • dan az

          gunner just turn left at the golden gate!

          • http://?? Joe H.

            dan az,
            nope, that’s take the down escalator at the golden gate!!!

          • dan az

            Hey Joe
            I stand corrected!

        • Robert Smith

          Hey Gunner 689!

          What’s “Gamority?” Am I missing something?

          BTW, the sin in Soddom wasn’t sexual it was about how strangers were treated.

          Oh and BTW again… After his wife died do you remember how Lott knocked up both of his daughters while he was drunk? I don’t know whether to think highly of him because he could get it up while he was so drunk he couldn’t tell it was his own daughters he was screwing or simply condemn him for his abuses of those two girls.

          Ain’t that a great christial tale or piece of tail?

          Rob

          • http://naver samurai

            Actually, Lot’s daughters got him drunk and got themselves knock up. Went the wrong way and got ambushed on that lie didn’t you?

          • http://?? Joe H.

            Robert,
            I don’t know, what is “gamority”? where do you see it????

    • Bob

      Did you notice that as Atheism has flourished so has homosexuality?

      • Karolyn

        There has always been atheism, just like there’s always been homosexuality. It just seems like there’s more because of population and the information highway and media.

    • Karolyn

      It’s not all about sex, just like marriage between heteros is not all about sex! Love is love. Sex is sex. The two can be mutually exclusive. I’ve known old gay couples who don’t have sex at all.

      • Bob

        If I saw an old woman’s body I wouldn’t want sex either.

        • Claire

          Crikey, good comeback! lol

        • Robert Smith

          Hi Bob,

          I hope you explain to any bride you may have that when she gets old she won’t get any sex.

          I figure that might be a deal breaker for some women.

          Rob

          • Bob

            I’m 70yo. I’ve had my share but can live without if I want.

          • Robert Smith

            Hey Bob,

            Wouldn’t the ultimate perversion in a religion that says, “Go forth and multiply” be abstinance?

            Wouldn’t it be a perversion of any god’s word on multiplying for humans to put rules on it?

            Rob

  • Pieman

    One of the real issues is the silencing of the church – pastors, clergy, priests, etc. on the issue of whether homosexuality is a sin or not. Both Europe and Canada have arrested, fined, or attempted to persecute people of faith for their views on homosexuality, gay marriage, and the like.
    The real question is will we have freedom of religion? Also, what will the be the affect on the on our public school system as teachers are forced to teach homosexual curriculum much like in Massachusetts?

    • Red

      We have freedom of religion and you can say what you please- the thing is, you cannot force an entire country to abide by what you believe based solely upon your religious views, because not everyone shares your religious beliefs.

      • http://naver Samurai

        Saying what you believe is giving your opinion and is NOT forcing your beliefs on anyone. If you believed the moon was made of green cheese, does that mean you trying to force someone else to believe it? Get a grip before you totally loose control of your mind. OOOOOOPS! I forgot, a lib has no mind to lose!

    • Robert Smith

      Hi Pieman,

      You posted: >>> Also, what will the be the affect on the on our public school system as teachers are forced to teach homosexual curriculum much like in Massachusetts?<<<

      Please take a few moments to deal with reality rather than hysteria like the post above.

      Go to: http://www.doemass.org/lawsregs/advisory/c7132adv.html

      It covers things like parents being able to opt their kids out of any sex education the don't feel is appropriate.

      Rob

      • http://naver Samurai

        It is an unnatural act and shouldn’t be taught in schools in the first place.

    • Robert Smith

      Pieman says: >>>One of the real issues is the silencing of the church – pastors, clergy, priests, etc. on the issue of whether homosexuality is a sin or not.<<<

      Certainly they can set the rules for THEIR OWN RELIGION. You are in or your are out. That's why Rice left the catholic church. She couldn't abide by their rules.

      However, she and many other, are still Americans and the church doesn't rule America.

      Rob

      • Bob

        No but the feds can’ rule the churches.

  • H Kirk Rainer

    On the matter of marriage, the institution.

    Once upon a time (in our land), marriage was a religious sacrament; but then it was passed to the state with licensing (on scale with hunting, fishing and driving…) In the hands of the state, marriage has been diluted: the laws (namely, no-fault divorce), has weakened the intent or essense of marriage; hence, this once sacred trust (or contract) has been reduced to a relationship of convenience….

    As the authority or custodian, the state has diluted marriage under arbitrary law. Yes, same-sex marriage defies natural law; but expedience and arbitrary law win the days — rationalization over reason….
    Inevitably, marriage will become like the politician who tried to be all things to all people — and ended-up being nothing to no one. What remains is how the church should react (or should have…) when that which is God’s has been rendered unto Caesar.

    Much more could said regarding:
    - The profiteering that has driven the divorce industry
    - The federal model that has propelled “the awarding of a child as property” and the revenues received by each state through child support collections.
    - The millions of fatherless homes….

    Oh yes, an industry has emerged in the dilution of marriage.

    • slickporsche

      Good post, thanks!

    • Red

      Uh, marriage didn’t BECOME a ‘sacrament’ until the 12th century. Before that, father’s would choose a husband for their daughters because women were treated as property. Marriages began as social contracts, not religious until much, much later in human history. Also, Buddhism does NOT view marriage as a sacrament.

      People, whether they are religious or not, should have the right to marry the person of their choosing.

      • http://naver Samurai

        As long as they are of the opposite sex, I agree!

    • Robert Smith

      H Kirk Rainer says: >>>the laws (namely, no-fault divorce), <<<

      Dick Chainey, Rush Limbaugh… Let's look at religion (or lack thereof). From: http://divorce.lovetoknow.com/Divorce_Statistics_by_Religion

      These divorce statistics come from a study conducted by The Barna Research Group. A total of 3,854 people living in different regions of the United States participated in the survey. Here are the results:"

      Divorce Statistics by Religion Religious Faith Percentage of Membership Divorced
      Non-denominational 34
      Baptist 29
      Episcopal 28
      Pentecostal 28
      Methodist 26
      Presbyterian 23
      Catholic 21
      Lutheran 21
      Atheist/Agnostic 21

      For the purposes of the Barna Group's survey, "nondenominal" includes Christian ministries that are not associated with a particular denomination. Many of their members are fundamentalists.

      Divorce Rates Highest for Conservative Faiths
      The results of the survey reached the same conclusion as earlier studies that indicate divorce rates are higher among people who are members of conservative Protestant faiths. Being a member of a church doesn't afford couples an immunity from the issues that affect all couples that can lead to divorce.

      Rob

      • http://naver samurai

        So what? The army has a more than 50% divorce rate and has nothing to do with religion, race, or gender, so what is the point with these false facts you have posted?

  • flash

    If you choose to be gay fine, live your lives the way you wish but leave straight people alone. You can call your union whatever you wish but it is “not” marriage! Stop trying to force the rest of us to accept and promote your gay lifestyle, that’s what really pisses us off.
    And, why is the gay Judge Walker not on trial for placing his lifestyle views above that of millions of voters?

    • Zack

      Did you choose to be straight? Could you choose to be gay?

      How on earth do you think anyone else could?

    • Karolyn

      “Lifestyle views” have nothing to do with it. Being gay is not a lifestyle.

      • Brad

        I’m sorry Zack and Karolyn,

        Being gay is a lifestyle choice individules make for them selves, whether it’s early in life or later in life, it’s still a choice they made for themselves. They may feel comfort with the same sex or have been driven to the same sex due to a violent act, people are still making a choice who they want to be with. Let the gay/lesbian community have their cival unions and leave marrige to strait individualsI’m strait so my choice is to be with the opposit sex. Looking at human and animal relationships males cohabitate together, they are friends, they gather food and so do females, but when it’s that time of the year animals mate with the opposit sex to bring forward the next generation we humans do the same but at different times. When can two males or two females bring forward an offspring with no outside assistance? They can’t, if the entire world turned gay over night the entire human race would cease to exist in a matter of 90 year’s maybe longer.

        • Bob

          Some cities closed their gay bathhouses because some men were doing 20 or more men a night.

        • Karolyn

          Well, I’m sorry right back at you. It most certainly is not a “lifestyle” choice. If you’re gay, you’re gay, and you can’t just say “Well, I don’t want to be gay anymore.” It’s been tried, and it doesn’t work. Most of the gays I knew tried being straight, but it just didn’t work. It would only be a fake life that would hurt more people (and has hurt a great many people). You cannot deny who or what you are. Living a lie is not living. And here is a definition of lifestyle:

          lifestyle Definition Way of living of individuals, families (households), and societies, which they manifest in coping with their physical, psychological, social, and economic environments on a day-to-day basis. Lifestyle is expressed in both work and leisure behavior patterns and (on an individual basis) in activities, attitudes, interests, opinions, values, and allocation of income. It also reflects people’s self image or self concept; the way they see themselves and believe they are seen by the others. Lifestyle is a composite of motivations, needs, and wants and is influenced by factors such as culture, family, reference groups, and social class.

          • http://?? Joe H.

            Karolyn,
            THEN SHOW ME THE GAY GENE!!!! I didn’t say jean either!!

          • http://?? Joe H.

            karolyn,
            what’s the matter? did I run you off with that one???

          • Karolyn

            Joe, I’m not a genetecist. I don’t pretend to know everything like you do. I know that the scientific research that has been done and is constantly being done shows that homosexuality is something one is born with. Won’t your face be red when they find that gene!

          • dan az

            Karolyn
            If you are not gay then how can you say that they are born with it?
            what excites one and not an other dose’nt mean that they are born diffrently its all in the mind.there is noway that you can speak for others that are weak and just cant help them selves.If you had a funny feeling about some one of the same sex it dosent mean that your gay just horny!

          • http://?? Joe H.

            karolyn,
            show me unbiased scientific research that PROVES that it’s not a lifestyle!!!! I don’t mean a psychiatrist’s study either!!! Scientific research!!!

        • Robert Smith

          From Brad: >>> When can two males or two females bring forward an offspring with no outside assistance?<<<

          Ahhhh, so you don't want post-menopausal women to be able to marry.

          Will you make an exception for vets who come home with wounds that eliminate sexual function. Will you take them from their wives if they can't reproduct?

          In my humble opinion "It's for the baaaaaaaabeeeees" seems like such a lame argument.

          Rob

          • http://naver Samurai

            Sorry dude, wrong again. A woman was created to be a man’s wife, to bear children, to populate the earth and to subdue it. Read the book of Genesis before you post.

      • http://gunner689 gunner689

        you’re right; it’s a fashion statement.

        • dan az

          pink and rainbows

  • slickporsche

    Personally I think both Red, and Reena are queer as a three dollar bill.

    • Robert Smith

      >>>queer as a three dollar bill.<<<

      Is that the bill with George Bush II's picture on it?

      Rob

      • http://?? Joe H.

        Nope Nobama’s!!!!

  • slickporsche

    Their case, as is yours, is pure and simple liberal BULLSHIT,and with out any solid foundation. This is why you liberals could never be succesful at running this county, as it would crumble in your hands like a soda cracker. You may get control, but in the end you WILL LOSE!

  • John

    You don’t have a clue about what you said !

  • David

    1.Judge Walker did not “give an immediate green light”. He stayed his own decision.

    2.All citizens have dual citizenship, US citizenship and citizenship from the State in which they reside.This case involves Federal Constitutional rights. When Federal Law and State law conflict, State law loses. See Article 6 Supremacy Clause. Changing the California Constitution is not going to help the Prop 8 crowd.

    3. There are over 1200 species in nature,monkeys,lions,dolphins,etc., who practice homosexual behavior. Of course, it is not religiously based, but it is “natural”.

    4. One of our great strengths as a nation is our separation of church and state and the freedom of thought and conscience flowing therefrom. The word privacy does not explicitly appear in the Constitution either, but our “right to privacy” exists. (See the 4th, 5th, and 14th Amendments)

    5. The Bill of Rights, who gets to enjoy them and who does not, are not subject to a vote of the people.

    6. Liberals ended legal racial segregation in this country. Conservatives opposed the efforts. Liberals ended interracial marriage. Conservatives opposed the efforts. Liberals brought us universal public education to all children. Conservatives opposed the efforts. Liberals brought equal pay for equal work to women. Conservatives opposed the efforts. Liberals ended discrimination against women and gave them legal autonomy over their bodies. Conservatives opposed the efforts. Liberals ended medical discrimination against children and families. Conservatives opposed it. Liberal President Clinton left office giving the country over a 280 billion surplus. Conservative President Bush, and his “conservative philosophy and principles of governance”, drove the country into a ditch, giving us a deficit of over a trillion, and profound long term problems to fix. A liberal President is doing just that. The conservatives are opposing his efforts and, as a result,are protracting and worsening our long term problems. Either help or get out of the way conservatives. You are part of the problem.

    • ValDM

      Out of all your long laundry list of things conservatives opposed and liberals “acheived” most involve removing God from our lives. Last, your comment about this “surplus” Clinton left…….the budget was not balanced and we still had a huge deficit. The “surplus” you lefties want to bring up ad nauseum was money that was not spent. It was not a true surplus.

      • http://?? Joe H.

        ValDM,
        Actually it was the money not yet paid out to Social Security!!! Money spoken for but not yet spent!!! If his budget had stood as written, we would have spent billions of dollars in two places at once!! It doesn’t work that way!!1

      • Robert Smith

        From VaIDM: >>>Out of all your long laundry list of things conservatives opposed and liberals “acheived” most involve removing God from our lives.<<<

        Education removes the christian god? Equality ALL Americans removes god?

        It appears to me your god is extremely weak not to be able to stand up to such things.

        Rob

    • http://naver Samurai

      Same old lib arguements. Can we have some new material, please?

  • http://none sean moor

    all this is just a [offensive word removed] joke.like the world.marriage is a manmade product.like everything else.The gov.gets its share of the monies.marriage is a buisness.The ones that come out on top,are the gov.and the women.men gets the shaft.this is straight marriage im talking.

  • JeffH

    There is one plus to homosexuality. Population control!

    • http://?? Joe H.

      JeffH,
      Actually it would be LIBERAL population control!!!

      • dan az

        then thats what we do let them marry there donkey

        • http://?? Joe H.

          dan az
          Except in this case donkey is spelled with three letters!!!

          • http://naver samurai

            Very funny! I needed a good laugh!

      • Robert Smith

        Hi Joe H.

        >>>Actually it would be LIBERAL population control!!!<<>>Mary Cheney, the vice president’s lesbian daughter, had her first child this morning at Sibley Hospital in Washington, D.C.

        Vice President Dick Cheney and his wife, Lynne Cheney, welcomed their sixth grandchild, Samuel David…
        Vice President Dick Cheney and his wife, Lynne Cheney, welcomed their sixth grandchild, Samuel David Cheney, Wednesday, May 23, 2007. He weighed 8 lbs., 6 oz and was born at 9:46 a.m. at Sibley Hospital in Washington, D.C. His parents are the Cheneys’ daughter Mary, and her partner, Heather Poe.
        (David Bohrer/White House Photo)Samuel David Cheney was born at 9:46 a.m., weighing 8 lbs., 6 oz.

        His parents are Mary and her partner, Heather Poe.

        Sixth Grandchild for Cheney
        “The vice president is pleased to be a grandfather for the sixth time,” spokeswoman Megan McGinn said.

        The vice president’s office announced in December that Mary was expecting her first child and a spokeswoman said at the time that he and his wife were “looking forward with eager anticipation to the arrival of their sixth grandchild.”

        Cheney bristled when the subject came up in a notably testy exchange in January with CNN’s Wolf Blitzer.<<<

        Does anyone really wanna kill Dick's daughter?

        Rob

        • Bob

          Dick Cheyney was 100% against gays until his daughter came out. Now he accepts it. That’s the way it is with most Americans. They only accept it when it’s one of theirs.

        • dan az

          RS
          At least she has a birth certificate.

  • Karolyn

    I listened to a very interesting debate this morning on PBS between two highly educated men – one a liberal and one a conservative. He was really nice to hear a polite debate. There was even some agreement between them and even laughter. One thing the conservative said that struck me was that he didn’t think the government should have anything to do with marriage at all. I think that solves everything.

  • JK

    My question is,
    If the gay people are so darned in love, how come they don’t move to a state that allows it?

    • Red

      Why should they have to leave their home state? They have jobs, homes, families and lives in the state where they lived, I can’t imagine how hard it would be (certainly right now, with the housing market and economy) how difficult it would be for them to just pick up and move. Would YOU be able to do that?

      • JeffH

        Like a true liberal, you would rather force a majority of naysayers to conform to your way of thinking. I fully agree with JK. Let the minority, the losers in Prop 8, move to a state that recognizes gay marriage rather than “force” a state and its citizens who clearly stated, through a majority vote, that they do not want gay marriages to be legalized in California.

        Here is a list of 9 choices for you:
        •Connecticut
        •District of Columbia
        •New Hampshire
        •New Jersey
        •New York
        •Maine
        •Massachusetts
        •Vermont
        •Iowa

        • http://naver Samurai

          JeffH I agree with you wholeheartedly. Keep up the good fight, fellow patriot! FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

        • http://?? Joe H.

          Whew! For once Ohio isn’t on a “bad” list!!!!

          • dan az

            or arizona thank God!

          • http://naver Samurai

            Indiana isn’t either!

          • Claire

            Ditto for Illinois.

          • JeffH

            Californians don’t want it either.

        • Bob

          Sorry NJ doesn’t have gay marriage but civil unions. That’s bad enough. That’s how a politician appeases both sides of the argument.

      • Brad

        Red,

        It depends on one’s financial situation, if your gay and can afford to move then move, if you can’t then you stay put. Californians made a moral choice on prop 8, they decided marriage is between a man and a woman plain and simple, the majority ruled.

    • Bob

      They want to destroy all states.

  • OLD FUDDIE DUDDIE

    I’ve read all of your arguments for and against homosexual marriages. I still stand by my statements made last week and the weeks before.

    No matter how loud a homosexual screams that he or she wants to be considered normal, accepted as normal and treated as normal, you fail the stress test.

    You have been allowed to exist for thousands of years as what you are and that is as a freak of nature. Granted you have made great strides by coming out of the closet and trying to force your choice of perversion as normal, it has only crossed the line of acceptability.

    Your perverted parades, your excessive display of vulgarity, your wild display of cross dressing, your movie and T.V. personalities and all of your other vulgarities, have shown just how far you plan to go to destroy families. And no… you are not alone in that quest, but you certainly have crossed over the line.

    We the men and women who not only believe but “know” that marriage is and always will be intended for a man and a woman to unite. Some unite till death do them part. Others unite for time and eternity, as it was planned for from the beginning, otherwise what great expectation would be in store to face eternity without our soul mate?
    And yes there is a place for you in the eternity with your perverted “soul mate”.

    My parting words are simply this: IMPEACH THE JUDGE, and let the appeal take place without your limp wristed threats of burning the churches!

    You see… you have failed the stress test…

  • http://N/A Mike Gibson

    Comments such as bringing up “separation of church and state”, simply show the writer does not know the constitution. The above words do not appear anywhere in the constitution; they came from a letter that one of the framers wrote to a clergyman. The ACLU has used the phrase so often people who haven’t actually read the constitution think it is in there. The only place religion is mentioned in the constitution of the U.S.is in the 1st article of the bill of rights and it says: “Congress shall make no law regarding the establishment of religion; nor prohibit the free exercise thereof”. The ACLU is prohibiting “the free exercise of religion” every time they go after a municipality or H.S. that has a religious reference. Now, let’s move to article 10 of the original bill of rights. Article 10 says: Anything not mentioned in the body of the constitution or the first 9 articles of the bill of rights falls in the jurisdiction of the states or the people. This is where states’ rights come from. Under this article states’ should have the right to make laws regarding abortion, marriage or sodomy because none of these things are mentioned in the constitution. Very clear. Here is the problem; the 14th amendment which was specifically passed to give blacks all the rights and privileges and due process that was afforded to whites after the civil war. Liberal attorneys and judges are using this amendment to rule on all the cases that shouldn’t even go to federal courts under the 10th amendment. This is one area that states and THE PEOPLE are being robbed of their rights. The people of California have twice voted to define marriage in our state as between a man and a woman (approximately 5 million people each vote) and their wishes are overturned by one federal judge both times. (The CA state supreme court ruled with the voters) In addition, 30 other states have voted on this issue and defined marriage as between a man and a woman. (Mass. law was passed by the legislature.) Our country was formed as a democratic republic. The majority should rule; when one man overturns the will of the majority it is time for revolution.

  • http://aol Dennis

    A rose is a rose by any other name. This is a free country and one’s sexual preference behind their own closed doors is their business, except for child abuse sexual activity. But do not say other individuals have to condone what they deem a perversion, and for sanity, do not call it same sex marriage. It is not a marriage, it is in sexual terms, getting it off! Like the worm,who has both sexes, we can call masterbation, handy marriage. Or marry your sheep, your horse, or you dog ect. Same sex marriage is a way for those that approve of it to force the majority of us to condone the activity of homosexuals and intigrate it as normal into our culture. I don’t care what you do sexually, but don’t ask me to bless it!

    • Karolyn

      IT’S NOT ALL ABOUT SEX!!!!!!!!!!!!They are people just like you!!!

      • http://naver Samurai

        Who are you to say that abnormal and normal people are the same? Go home and read your Bible. Oooops! I forgot, now you are an atheist! Are you starting to feel the heat yet?

        • Karolyn

          Now Sam, you know I never said I was an atheist – not that there’s anything wrong with being one as long as it’s not pushed on me.

          • dan az

            Karolyn
            the same goes for there perversions.Dont force it on my kids or grand kids they will have enough to deal with in their life time.Put it back in your pants and look to God for your answers.This world is crazy enough with sharia law being forced on us the old race card, the destruction of our constitution and bill of rights,How can any one think about perversions at a time like this. Put in back in the closet and dont flaunt it in my face I really dont play well with others get my meaning?

        • jsh

          What version of the Bible do you read? And what year was it first published?

          • http://naver Samurai

            That don’t matter. If you are talking about physically, that I may agree with you. We both have 2 eyes, ears, a nose, etc., but we are not the same where it counts in our hearts and minds. Is this a brief enough explination for you?

          • Karolyn

            I’ve been reading the same one everybody else does. The difference is I don’t take it word for word in the exact translation that is generally accepted.

      • http://gunner689 gunner689

        No Darlin; they’re people like you.

        • Karolyn

          They have all the same physical parts and emotions as we all do. THEY ARE HUMAN BEINGS!!!

          • http://gunner689 gunner689

            Karolyn: so do chimpanzes. are they kin to you to?

          • Karolyn

            What’s wrong with chimps?

      • http://?? Joe H.

        karolyn,
        they are nothing like me!!!! They are nothing like the majority of the population!!!

        • dan az

          I dont wear pink dresses either

          • Karolyn

            Neither do most gays!

  • Bob

    I could tell you 1 thing straight men don’t do.

    • Karolyn

      And what’s that Big Bob, cry? style hair? design clothes? decorate homes? be successful? What?

      • http://www.SaveLakeAtitlan.org Duende

        Oooh oooh.. I know ….Straignt men don’t really care what gay men do. It’s just gay men that are in denial of their feelings that get so violent towards other gays.

        Am I close? :-)

  • Robert Hagedorn

    No matter how we feel about same-sex marriage, the exegesis for the 2nd and 3rd chapters of Genesis makes us uncomfortable. Why? Because the deed Adam and STEve did, according to the story, was sodomy–the mystery the bishop of Hippo almost solved 1600 years ago. (He thought the sin was penile/vaginal sex.) For more information google The First Scandal Adam and Eve. Then click, read, and click again.

    • http://naver Samurai

      Way toooooooo much liberal crack!

      • removed

        (Offensive comment removed)

        • http://naver Samurai

          I know who this is and the police will be coming after you soon. Get ready to see your boyfriends in jail!

          • JeffH

            BBBB, you’re a complete childish moron…

  • OLD FUDDIE DUDDIE

    Kris, I live in the real world. Being old does not prevent me from seeing what the real world has done to our children, our grand children and our great grandchildren.

    You profess to be among a so-called civilized 90% of the homosexual world. And don’t call it gay. Gay has nothing to do with perversion. Gay is happy and care free and it is a word that we all used unashamedly to describe a fun and happy time. That is the normal way to use the word gay. But you want to see yourselves as normal and you steal a word we were happy with and use it to hide behind your sexual perverted preferances of homosexuality. The majority of the U.S. does not even accept you as normal.

    You want acceptance and I can understand that. If I was a freak of nature, I would want to be accepted as normal, but it is what it is. Ask Clinton the Rapist (the other type of sexual pervert) what the definition of “is” is.

    And Kris… if you have to act so innocent as to exclaim WHAT? or innocently ask “what in the hell am I talking about, then I suggest that YOU are not living in the real world. Wake up and look around you.

    It certainly was not staight persons who crying over the vote on Prop. #8, yelled out to riot and burn down the churches.

    And then there is your wise friend David in a post above who thinks that liberals ended racial strife in this country.

    You are all liars, out to pervert our schools (even worse than what they are), our government (even worse than what it is), our entertainment (even worse than what it is), and our families (even worse than what they are).

    We watched. We listened. We learned. You have crossed the line, and now you must go back into the closet and realize that you are not normal.

    • Karolyn

      Did I miss something? Who said anything about burning down churches?

    • http://YouTube.com/CanadaLarry Lawrence Edward Calcut

      @ Old Fuddie Duddie,

      I like what you say, you are wise and it shows good for your/our age. I have always contended that the people involved in the Gay community, both Males and Femals do not really want to be gay. In fact they are ashamed and sorry they are gay. To make them free better and more normal, which they cannot do, they feel it is best to pull down the normal people to their level and if possible have them do the same preverted acts they do. Then, since ‘everyone is doing it’ there will be not differences between normal and gays. That will certianly make them feel better about their pervision.

      Am I right, or just dreaming up a fairy tail to make myself feel better about what they do?.

      • Karolyn

        Have youver talked to a gay person? I have known many, and they have all seemed very comfortable with who they are. They have problems like anybody else but not because of their identity. I’ve known some pretty happy gay couples.

      • http://gunner689 gunner689

        It’s a shame all liberals aren’t queer. All our problems would be solved in a couple of generations.

      • Karolyn

        Lawrence, You are way off base. In order for anybody to understand, you need to dialog with people that are “different” than you. Have you ever known any gay people? One of my best friends is a lesbian, and she is one of the best people I ever knew. She knew she was gay from childhood and was never in the closet. She is an extremely intelligent, well-adjusted woman in a long-time committed relationship with two kids – one from each of them. I only regret that I moved far away and do not see her anymore.

  • http://gmail i41

    Karolyn, no faggots are not like the normal people posting. Bieng a queer is for sex, with another rump rider. As to your commment to Bob, alot of hetro sexual macho males from 17-30, go into the lines of work your sacastic comment zeroed in on, females will go to the big boys because they want real macho males, who would ride a pile of rocks, if the was a warm wild female snaky witch under them. These lads do hair, build houses and decorate shacks, design huntibg gear and knifes or firearms, clothes is pretty much repatious redumdance operation, and is suited for a female or a faggot. Just like there isn’t too many queers as mechanics,welders, heavy equipment operators, or miners that are queers, but plenty of females and they are skilled workers. Probably some 1%er queer workers but not usually out in the clear veiw of fellow workers. Queers need to stay in their closets and if they want to be abnormal, stay in the closet. If they want to chinch up and do what ever in the closet, just knock them selves or choke them selves in to the never land.

    • Karolyn

      I really am curious how old you are 141? You really sound like you’re from another century. I feel sorry for your wife and family. You’re saying that the work gays do is “women’s” work? That gays don’t do “man’s” work? Well, I can tell you different. My friend that’s gay is pretty manly and can cut down a tree with the best of them and works his butt off. Every man has some female in him. Actually, every baby starts out as a girl and then a change happens to make them a boy. Gay men just have more female in them. “Real” men don’t have enough female in them. Gay men are more creative in general than straight men. Having feelings doesn’t make a man less manly. The type of manliness you’re talking about sounds more like Big Foot to me.

    • Kinetic1

      WOW! i41
      If you were chosen as the representative of all heterosexual males, we could on assume that real men are ignorant, unable to communicate and just plain offensive. I am a heterosexual. I have never experimented with other men, nor have I ever had the desire. I have rebuilt a car, replaced the plumbing and electrical in my house, climbed and limbed tall trees and I’m a fair shot with a bow and a rifle. I also spent several years as a hair dresser, have made clothes for myself and my daughter, and I stay home to raise the kids while my wife goes to work. None of this has ANYTHING to do with my sexuality. I appreciate a beautiful women, but I also appreciate fine design. I’ve lived in the city, but I prefer small towns. And I know some gays who do a “man’s” job and would be happy to kick your a** twelve miles to Sunday. I swear, I thought I was done with jerks like you when I graduated from Junior High.

  • Jeremy Leochner

    Personally I see nothing wrong with two consenting Adults taking part in a ceremony to express love to each other. What they feel about each other is between them, and they are of legal age. To those who see homosexuality as a sin, let me point out, recognizing homosexual marriages as legitimate unions will not cause an uproar of people becoming homosexual. It will only encourage homosexuals to get married. And by the way if their already homosexual not being allowed to get married will not change that. And if a marriage between homosexuals is only between homosexuals really what danger is that posing to heterosexuals. If you disagree with the homosexual life style you dont have to worry about becoming homosexual. If you think its evil and people shouldnt take part in homosexual marriage, as I said the only people taking part will be homosexuals. I guess what im trying to say is I think its alright for homosexuals to marry, and for those who think its bad I dont see how it in any way threatens them.

    • http://?? Joe H.

      Jeremy
      If all they want to do is be together legally recognized by the government and have all the legal rights, then why not agree to a civil union?? It’s not and you know it! They want to simply push it in the straights faces!! I say civil unions, ok marriage, HELL NO!!!

      • Jeremy Leochner

        Joe what do you mean by push it in the straights faces. They arent trying to win a competition and brag about it.

        • Claire

          Jeremy–Those gay parades turned me off. Now that is what I call goofy and it defies my sense of logic and rationality. This is exhibitionism and I find it disgusting. I also believe homosexuality is a “choice.” Therefore, if someone wants to be a homosexual, keep it to themselves. I am hardnosed–I do not consider homosexuality to be normal behavior. And I do not want to be harassed by people that have decided they like this kind of behavior. Whatever happens with the court’s decision on same sex marriage is not of my doing. If it passes, it passes. If it doesn’t pass, then so be it. I am rather tired of this issue. I want the powers that be to straighten (pardon the pun) out the mess this country is in. To me, the economy and jobs is what is important at this time.

          • Karolyn

            It’s called having fun, and nobody’s being forced to watch.

          • Claire

            Having fun? Oh yes, there are lots of people out there having fun. The difference is that logical people aren’t having demented fun. Don’t worry, I know I don’t have to “watch” and I certainly won’t. This is an issue that normal people are getting tired of. America has more important issues to deal with other than the homosexual lifestyle. Go peddle your “fun” to someone else. I am not interested.

          • JeffH

            Gee whiz Karolyn, they televise the gay parade in SF every year and I can tell you there is nothing normal about parading around in “chaps” with nothing else on or dressing like a big penis…men liplocking in public with men and women on women. Sorry, keep it private and I don’t care, I can even handle them holding hands…but please, keep the smutty stuff behind closed doors.

          • Claire

            JeffH– I know–I have seen those parades a couple of times and believe me when I say I will never watch another one. Talk about insanity.

        • http://?? Joe H.

          Jeremy L.
          how about you just answer the question, lady!!!

          • Jeremy Leochner

            Very well Joe: Saying a homosexual couple can have a civil union not a marriage is discrmintation. Homosexuals do not want special treatment, they want to be recognized as having the same rights and status as heterosexuals. They cannot have that so long as the best they can get is “A Civil Union”.

          • dan az

            Jeremy l
            what rights is it that you need is it that you want to be like every one else or is it that you just want every one to think that your nomal.
            look girl friend thats not going to happen in this life time.I really dont care what you and your boy friend do behind closed doors just stop doing it in the streets and in the faces of all who think it a perversion.And dont complain when some one shoves their feelings in your face!

          • Jeremy Leochner

            Uh Dan az: First I am a heterosexual male. You dont have to be homosexual to believe in equality for everyone including homosexuals. Second of all homosexuals are not going out in the streets having sex. They do that in a private room away from public eye. Also marriage is about love not sex. Clearly you have an issue with the homosexual lifestlye in regards to sex. But marriage is based on love and commitment not sex, how do I know this, because its sacred. Sacred rituals aren’t based on things like sex there based on things we all hold dear and that includes love. As far as I can tell if homosexuals can have the same amount of love for each other as heterosexuals then marriage shouldnt be a problem. As long as they keep their sex life in a private space, as they aready do, I see no problem with them getting married.

          • http://?? Joe H.

            jeremy,
            actually lady, they do. There is a park along lake Erie near Cleveland Ohio where the cops bust gays “servicing” each other all the time! A few times it has happened in broad daylight in front of little kids!!! Those ones need to be taken out about five miles on Erie and told to sink or swim!!!

          • Jeremy Leochner

            Very Well Joe I call your bluff:

            Adulterers can be found all across this nation, as well as men who have divorced their wives only to get new ones. Your right that there are homosexuals who commit disgusting sexual taboos like having sex in public, I agree that is wrong and should be stopped, however heterosexuals are not innocent of sexual innuendo. As such you cant single out homosexuality as the source of innuendo among homosexuals, unless you also believe heterosexuality is the cause of innuendo among heterosexuals. If not then that means you must judge people on an individual basis and not let sexual orientation be a factor, otherwise your being prejudice.
            Also, once again I am not homosexual, although I love the fact that you suggest a person has to be homosexual in order to believe homosexuals have free and equal rights under the law.

    • http://gunner689 gunner689

      Thanks Jerry for “Sharing” that with us. Now go put your jammies on and jump into bed with Mr. Hand Puppet.

  • http://gmail i41

    Duende, yes faggots just have a problem with them selves, watch what happens when male animals try to queer another male of their species. When queers whine like a bitch in heat, because they don’t get the same rights as normal people,Well they aren’t normal. They need to go back to the sewer and shut the hell up. Marriage is between a man and a women. If the faggots want to be arm in arm or finger in eachs noses, just get goofy as striped a$$ed apes, for all of us could care less.

    • Karolyn

      If you could care less, why does it bother you so much?

      • http://www.SaveLakeAtitlan.org Duende

        “The lady doth protest too much, methinks.” :-)

        • Karolyn

          methinks you’re full of it. I just love all people, and I don’t care what they are. I will go down with my last breath standing up for human rights.

    • removed

      (OFFENSIVE COMMENT REMOVED)

      • http://?? Joe H.

        Oh yeah now there’s real intelligence!!! And Karolyn says were being childish?? What’s his age? 12?? 10???

        • http://naver Samurai

          Actually, it’s 37!

  • Palin12

    Justice delayed is justice served.

  • http://gunner689 gunner689

    The sad truth is that far too many boys are being raised by divorced or single women. Their sexual identity is perverted by a lack of male role models, like a good father. The women don’t want their sons to grow up to be macho like their fathers probably were. So they’re pampered and catered to and raised like sissys. Then their school and peer group says it’s alright to be a queer. Add in computer games that become additive and you end up with a kid that’s impressionable to all corrupt influences and has low self esteem or an exagerated ego based on nothing. Thank you femminists for ruining mankind.

    • Karolyn

      Oh, c’mon Gunner. Nobody is raised to be gay. They might be raised to be sensitive, but that’s about it. I know a lesbian couple with two kids, one by each of them – a boy and a girl. They have been raised well and have their own identities, and neither is homosexual. they are also terrific kids!

  • http://gunner689 gunner689

    Has anyone noticed that most most serial killers had some kind of twisted relationship with their mothers?

    • Claire

      I was never a single parent, but you may have a point. However, I have a couple of friends that were single mothers, and it was a hardship for all of them. Their kids ended up okay.

      • http://gunner689 gunner689

        Claire: What do you consider OK?

        • Claire

          gunner689- Sorry, I should have been more clear in my answer. These two women went through a lot raising their kids on a single income but they did their best. The kids turned out okay–by this I meant they did not get into any trouble with the law, made average grades and now they are in the working world, so far so good.
          I thought you had a point in your comment because there are abusive relationships and the kids end up being the victims. And these kids can grow up to be killers, robbers, etc.
          Another issue– a couple from my church are now raising their grandkids. The parents took off! No one knows where the parents are! They have been gone for 5 months now, no word from them–nothing. Another couple I know are raising their grandkids. The mother is their daughter and she is strung out on drugs, so they adopted these two toddlers. They are in their sixties and raising these two little kids. I read that there are a lot of grandparents raising the grandkids nowadays.

  • Claire

    Egads, give me a goodlooking guy anytime! Ahhhhh, youth! And yes, I chased my husband but he chased me too. We hit 50 years this past December, going on 51 in a few months. Time flies! When I was young and in high school, my friends and I never thought about homosexuality. I can remember there were a few kids that were called fags, fruits, fairies, and queers but I really do not think any of us thought too much about WHY they were called these names. It seems like they were called those names because they did not “fit” in with our crowd. Now when I look back upon those years, I don’t think they were gay. I think it was just a matter of those kids not fitting in, they were kids that had an alcoholic father or mother, a reputation for stealing, a parent in prison, and various other problems. Not once did I ever see a guy messing around with another guy nor did I ever see a girl messing around with another girl. And I went to hundreds of “sock hops” and drag races. Bob was the ultimate drag racer. Never was beaten!! We had a glorious time.
    When I think about those years, I wish I would have taken the time to befriend these kids that were not as fortunate as I. I wasn’t hateful to them, I just ignored them. Having lived these many years, and based upon what I have observed, I still think homosexuality is a choice.

    • Robert Smith

      Hi Claire,

      >>>I still think homosexuality is a choice.<<<

      When did you choose to be straight? Could you have ever considered it any other way?

      Why would anyone choose to be gay with all those christians and muslums gunning for them (sometimes literally)?

      Rob

      • Claire

        Robert Smith–When did I choose to be straight? I was always “straight.” The thought of homosexuality never occurred to me way back when. In reality, I didn’t know much about the subject. I was a teenager in the mid-fifties, homosexuality was almost unheard of, at least where I lived. Even though there were some kids that were called the slang names back then, I don’t think they were gay. I think it was a matter of them having a rotten homelife. And no, since I think the way I do, I could never have considered it any other way–boy with girl/girl with boy–that is the way it was with me back then and this is the way it is with me now. I grew up in a rural area, a small town. The era of the fifties were “different” than it is now. It was a less complicated way of life, to me it was a good, safe era. The family structure was closer knit, parents disciplined their kids. Kids were taught right from wrong, and kids had to “toe the line.” Kids were taught to have respect and manners. We went to church and Sunday school every week. The teenagers in my era had drag races, danced like fools, L&M cigarettes, and PBR. (Beer and those cigarettes made me deathly sick, which was a good thing. One beer and I would upchuck). And when we got “caught” there was hell to pay. Drugs were unheard of, we didn’t hear about drugs until the early sixties, and by then I was married.
        I do not wish ill upon any homosexual, I just do not think they are born with those tendencies. I am not backpeddling from my beliefs.
        This is the way I am, this is what I think.

      • JD

        Rob,

        Gays make this choice essentially the first time they have homo sex. Your mother-f-in conscience speaks to you at these critical junctures in life kind of like having a good and bad angel on your shoulders advising you of the perceived benefits and consequences. It’s the same with drugs,alcohol,and the myriad other choices people make that have lasting effect. It’s still a damn choice. I’m sure you disagree but after reading most of your postings, I can only say now that I’ll keep you in my prayers for God said to love all in His kingdom, even the least ones. Get right with God, atheist brother! He’ll forgive you til the 11th. hour but most people seem to die at 10:30. Tenga cuidado!

        • http://gunner689 gunner689

          JD is correct. Everyone has impulses but they don’t have to act on them. At times in my life I’ve felt the urge to kill, steal, screw a married woman, ect. I did’nt act out on those urges so that’s propably why I’m not in prison. Homos choose to act out on their urges and should pay the consequences for their action. whether that consequense is ostracism or public disgust, that’s the road they chose.

          • http://?? Joe H.

            gunner689,
            that you resisted the urge with a married woman might be the reason you are ALIVE!!! sorry couldn’t resist!!
            BTW is that “gunner” a door gunner???

  • Patrick Faubion

    People, you’ve got to remember that this is America which has a constitution which most conservative point to every time big government get in your business. I’m a Christian and I have strong feelings about many social issues, HOWEVER, and this is something a lot of hypocritical people had better remember. Freedom of religion also means freedom FROM religion. The federal or state governments have no business whatsoever even dealing with the issue of gay marriage. It is a personal choice. No one in government has a right to dictate who anyone else can marry. This is a constitutional issue, not a religious issue.

    You are free to exercise your religious beliefs and be free from someone telling your wife she has to wear a head scarf or not leave the house without a male relative. It’s no different. Your religious/biblical perspective on things is just that…yours. It must not infringe on anyone elses freedom…of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. That’s the American way. Get your head out of the sand or where ever else you have it and remember what country you’re in. It doesn’t matter how you feel about homosexuality, medical marijuana, poligamy, etc., it’s none of your business or the governments business to inflict a religious or social value on you or anyone else.

    If you don’t understand this concept, you are a hypocrite of the highest order and don’t deserve the freedoms our forefathers fought and died for.

    • Karolyn

      BRAVO!! THANK YOU!

    • Claire

      Patrick–I read your post twice. And it is imperative that I answer you. These are my beliefs and I quote my Mother, which I often do—-Religion should not be intertwined with politics. If a politician running for office is/has a demonic agenda because of his/her religion, then that is a different matter and we do not vote for him/her but if they are in office, then we should do something about it. And I have to agree with you that the government does not have the right to interfere with a person’s religion, their marriage, or who they marry. No person, religion, government, or society should force their way of life upon someone else, you are correct in this. From a personal standpoint, I do not force my way of life, my religion or any of my beliefs upon anyone else. When I post on this site, I usually post my feelings-I try not to become abusive in my language although I was quite upset regarding the oil spill.
      On a personal note, there are two women in my family–cousins–that are in interracial marriages. Do I condemn them? No, I do not. That is their choice, who am I to dictate what they do with their lives? They never told me what to do with mine. One of my cousins is happy, the other is in an unhappy situation. The way I look at it, this is life. Some of us make good choices, some of us do not. And even if I make a bad choice, it is still my choice to make, not anyone else’s, this same thought applies to my cousins and anyne else.
      As I said earlier, I do not wish ill upon the homosexuals, I never have. I do not want to see anyone beaten, abused, or killed because of their preferences. As you said, we all have the freedom to do as we please, I do as I please, and others do too.
      Concerning my comments about the parades, they are off the top, but no one forces me to watch them. I never said they did. And I won’t watch them.
      Yes, life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness is what this country is all about. I agree with you on this.
      I have expressed my opinion that I think homosexuality is by choice, this is my freedom of speech and beliefs. You have expressed your opinion. Therefore, I do not think my head is in the “sand” or wherever. I no doubt have lived longer than you, this does not make me a know-it-all, this does not make me holier than thou, but I like to think of myself as having some wisdom about the matters at hand.

      • OLD FUDDIE DUDDIE

        Claire,

        You were very clear and very precise in what you had to say.

        I once felt the same way, until the homosexuals crossed the line. When they scream in their crowds that they are going to start burning down the churches; when they introduce into our school systems the teaching that a choice of what I accepted and recognized as a perverted way of life was and is “NORMAL”; when they have their homosexual parades under dressed, cross dressed and over dressed with vulgar signs and screaming that they will “take over everything” very soon, and lastly the entertainment directed by them and for them in movies and T.V. Yes, they have crossed the line, and I say that the straight people of the world have got to push them back across that line and regain the moral atmosphere of “clean and sane” family life again. If this means that they have to retreat back into the closet then so be it. What they did in the closet was their choice, but don’t expect me to accept it as “NORMAL”. It is “NOT NORMAL”.

        Claire, I appreciate your patience shown in your post. I hope that you can forgive my impatience at this point in my long life.

        • Claire

          Old Fuddie Duddie–I am probably older than you! Patience?? This basically is NOT a virtue of mine. I am an impatient person, I want things done now. Not tomorrow. I have said my piece about homosexuality. Sure, they have gone “over the top” at times but so haven’t plenty of others regarding different issues. We all have our opinions, I have mine and you have yours. We all have individual beliefs. At the risk of being cold-hearted and/or hateful, I simply think the issue of the economy and jobs are what is most important right now. I also want our soldiers brought back home. I want this nonsensical war brought to an end. Now. I want all Americans to join together and stand up for America, and this will never happen. There are too many propagandists out there that thrive on the dissent and hatred they are promoting. I could go on but you will no doubt lose patience with me. I am what I am. I do not profess to be otherwise.

    • dan az

      patrick
      you said:it’s none of your business or the governments business to inflict a religious or social value on you or anyone else.
      so explain to me why is it that you need our permission to get married?
      the government for the people by the people say that they dont want it so why force it on them?

      • Robert Smith

        From dan az: >>>so explain to me why is it that you need our permission to get married?<<<

        Nobody needs "your" permission to get married. In America it is a contract that allows things like joint tax filing, inheritance, etc. It is incumbant upon the g0overnment to assure that there is a record of such contract and that it was entered into by those of legal age freely (not under the influence of drugs or some religious cult).

        In America the goal is to treat all equally in civil matters. The "separate but equal" of civil unions is another diaper load just as it was in the '50s.

        Make everything the government registers "merriage" where even athiests can marry in the eyes of the government, or make it all a civil union and let folks go their churches for their version of a blessing of merriage.

        Rob

        • http://?? Joe H.

          rob,
          A civil union will give them those rights!!!

  • http://naver samurai

    He’s probably gay himself. He also sounds like a self proclaimed “messiah” like his “friend” in the White House. He says he believes in pro everything. Well, if his wife gets pregnant, I gues he’ll tell her to have an abortion. Maybe raise the child up to be gay, as he seems to have these tendencies (as noted on this posting site). He’ll also get his in the end (literally). FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

    • dan az

      samurai
      I think it is just allot of crap (pun intended)that they want the government out of there business and yet they want the government to intervien with all of our lives.

    • Robert Smith

      samurai, thank you for the demonstration of just how bankrupt the arguments are against same sex merriage. You’ve offered no reasons and personal attacks.

      Looks like the only thing you believe in is an attempt to bully others to behave like you presume your god wants folks to act.

      BTW, what do you think of Dick Chaney’s daughter? Can you explain how she turned out gay with that ultra-conservative parent?

      Rob

  • comment removed

    (comment removed – was not placed by the poster he claimed to be)

    • Robert Smith

      says: >>> I have spoken for GOD AND COUNTRY!!!! <<<

      I don't believe in your god so you don't count either.

      Welcome to the REAL America.

      Rob

      • http://?? Joe H.

        robert S. thanks for showing how stupid some of the Pro-choice (murders) can be!! If you had a quarter of a brain, you would know that wasn’t Samurai!!!

    • Karolyn

      Wow, sounds to me like you actually think you ARE God. We are as American as you, and you can’t just shut people up because you don’t agree with them. Wouldn’t it be a boring world if we all believed just like you? Actually, it would be boring if we all believed the same of anything. I’ll pray for you.

    • http://naver samurai

      That wasn’t me, I know it was a fool named Chris! Chris, tommorow you WILL turn in your letter of resignation.

      • libertytrain

        It is a shame that some people have to resort to falsehoods and trickery in posting under your name and other’s names… It’s happened to a few of us here and it proves their actual intelligence level somewhere in the 4th or 5th grade level.—

  • del

    Maybe you’d prefer the US become islamic as opposed to Christain? They kill homosexuals.

  • del

    All of you who think you can not dictate morals…surprise!!!! All of our laws are based on morals. If we had no morals we would have no laws. Without laws we’d have total chaos.

  • JeffH

    moron!

  • Claire

    Jealous?? Of what? JeffH is the last person that would be jealous over an issue such as this. I rate JeffH highly in the “brains” department.

  • http://naver Samurai

    He’s referring to me. He’s just a man with a childish mind. He’ll get his in the end, literally!

  • Claire

    Samurai–Then he should have addressed his post to you. Either way, my answer would be the same if he were posting to you.
    BTW–clever statement.
    “Get his in the end”………….

  • dan az

    JeffH
    Ive yet to see any comment from him, its always removed I guess that’s why his name fits him!

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