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And The Band Played On

November 10, 2010 by  

And The Band Played On

Another election is over and the sweet promise of more change in two short years is wistfully blowing. It looks like it will be a humdinger of a Thanksgiving for Republicans.

While I will be giving thanks, I won’t be celebrating. The new Congress, packed with what Bob Livingston correctly calls the Ruling Elite, will be rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic.*

Some think the nation took a turn for the worse with President Franklin Delano Roosevelt. I disagree. What came after FDR was total victory over Hitler and Tōjō as well as immense new wealth. By the late 1950s America was rich, stable and could call on the most dominant army ever assembled.

From the ashes of World War II the United States was the only major power that became richer rather than poorer. By the early 1950s the U.S. was the world’s largest creditor and was posting unprecedented trade and budget surpluses. America’s immense agriculture base and mineral wealth were just beginning to be exploited, and the country was the number one producer and exporter of crude oil.

Writing for Benjamin M. Rowland’s 1977 book, Balance of Power or Hegemony: The Interwar Monetary System, Charles P. Kindleberger said that in 1950 Washington possessed $20 billion in gold reserves or almost two-thirds of the world’s total of $33 billion.

In 1950 America’s per capita gross domestic product was seven times that of Japan’s and was almost double that of Great Britain’s. Today Japan and Great Britain have per capita GDPs that measure more than three-quarters of America’s. In fact Ireland, home to one of the worst famines of the post-Industrial Revolution, has a higher per capita GDP than does the United States.

America’s economy was also a dynamo that just kept spinning faster. Measured in constant dollars, the nation’s GDP rose tenfold between 1940 and 1969.

A half century later the U.S. was the largest borrower in history, the biggest buyer of fossil fuels and was posting staggering deficits. And by the dawn of the 21st Century the U.S. held slightly more than 25 percent of the world’s official gold reserves, or about $355 billion worth. That won’t even pay down 4 percent of the $13 trillion in U.S. Federal debt.

The onset of the massive decline began in the 1960s under President Lyndon Baines Johnson. It is worth noting that that Democratic President’s agenda was similar to President Barack Obama’s. Both set out to redistribute America’s wealth and both sent young men to fight and die in a losing war halfway around the world.

America was on the brink of revolt following Johnson’s election in 1964. It is worth remembering that things did not get much better after his successor — the deeply conservative President Richard Nixon — was elected four years later. Over the next decade American’s fortunes became progressively worse, and the nation has continued in a state of decline that persists to this day.

It all adds up to America’s grand decline, declared National Affairs earlier this year in an article with the headline, “Complexity and Collapse: Empires on the Edge of Chaos.

“Imperial collapse may come much more suddenly than many historians imagine,” is the summation of that article written by Niall Ferguson. “A combination of fiscal deficits and military overstretch suggests that the U.S. may be the next empire on the precipice.” You can read the article here.

Ferguson cites two troubling trends in America’s decline:

First, that America’s public debt may skyrocket from 44 percent of GDP before the 2008 financial crisis to more than double that figure within a generation.

Second, China will have a larger economy than America in 17 years and India’s GDP will exceed America’s in less than 40 years. If so, the U.S. could soon be a third rate power.

Ferguson is not the first historian to point out that America is an empire in decline. In 1987, Paul Kennedy’s book, The Rise and Fall of the Great Powers: Economic Change and Military Conflict From 1500 to 2000 traced the decline of dominant nations beginning 500 years ago.

Kennedy’s conclusion is that all great powers have a natural progression that starts with a rise to prominence and then an inevitable decline. This erosion of wealth and influence has affected every leading power including Spain, the Habsburgs and Britannia.

“Imperial expansion carries the seeds of future decline,” wrote Kennedy. "If a state overextends itself strategically… it runs the risk that the potential benefits from external expansion may be outweighed by the great expense of it all.”

This phenomenon of "imperial overstretch," says Kennedy, is common throughout history.

Even America’s own regression has long been understood. In the 1960s, Arkansas Senator William Fulbright, the Democratic chairman of the Foreign Relations Committee, wrote the book, The Arrogance of Power. He was highly critical of overspending and the Vietnam War. The title became something of a slogan for the antiwar protests of the 1960s.

In the 1980s I started doing my own research into America’s decline. I found that in the 1950s one out of every three cars made worldwide was built by General Motors. At that time, GM sold more than one out of every two cars made in America. By the late 1980s, GM’s share of the domestic market had fallen to around 35 percent, and today it stands at less than 20 percent.

At the height of American power, General Motors President Charles Wilson said, “What’s good for General Motors is good for the country.” I think the converse could also be argued. America’s Ruling Elite seem as arrogant as Charles Wilson and Henry Ford II and if that is the case the nation itself is headed for bankruptcy. The only difference is that General Motors could count on Washington to bail it out. But who can bail out America?

Yes, we have elected a new Congress. And yes, in two years we might have a new President. But how much of a difference will it make? Not much. Consider that America has been in a state of decline for more than four decades. The nation’s multitude of problems — the war in Afghanistan, the energy and debt crisis, illegal immigration and spread of immorality — cannot be cured over the next few years.

My friends, the die is cast for America just as it was for all the great empires. Consider Spain. In the late 16th Century it was the most dominant power in the world. One hundred years later the plague, corruption and sweeping emigration had reduced Spain’s population from 8 million to 7 million. By then it hardly mattered who carried the crown once worn by the laudable Charles V.

A more contemporary example is England. After compiling huge debts and barely surviving the onslaught of Nazi Germany, did it much matter if Conservative candidate Winston Churchill or his opponent, Labour’s Clement Attlee, formed the Government that was elected in 1945? Of course it didn’t; not in the long run. And neither will it much matter who we elected last week or whom we elect two years from now.

Action To Take
It is important to note that when all empires collapse so, too, do their currencies. I believe the dollar is doomed and don’t see much hope for the euro either. Keep the bulk of your assets in physical gold with a sprinkling of silver and only a select group of natural resource stocks.

Yours for real wealth and good health,
John Myers
Myers’ Energy and Gold

* Footnote: The origin of this quotation is The Washington Post, May 16, 1976, when Rogers Morton, an American public relations officer, told the newspaper: "I’m not going to rearrange the furniture on the deck of the Titanic."

John Myers

is editor of Myers’ Energy and Gold Report. The son of C.V. Myers, the original publisher of Oilweek Magazine, John has worked with two of the world’s largest investment publishers, Phillips and Agora. He was the original editor for Outstanding Investments and has more than 20 years experience as an investment writer. John is a graduate of the University of Calgary. He has worked for Prudential Securities in Spokane, Wash., as a registered investment advisor. His office location in Calgary, Alberta, is just minutes away from the headquarters of some of the biggest players in today’s energy markets. This gives him personal access to everyone from oil CEOs to roughnecks, where he learns secrets from oil insiders he passes on to his subscribers. Plus, during his years in Spokane he cultivated a network of relationships with mining insiders in Idaho, Oregon and Washington.

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  • Dan az

    I guess you just have to start some where and nov.2 was as good as any place.If we impeach this sick imposter and all his goons that would be another good place to start.Going after the feds with all there monopoly money and the hired thugs from the IRS would be another good start.As far as how long the recovery will be who knows!But you have to start some where!

    • RHSchumann

      Did you read the article? Our current situation has nothing to do with the current President. Our decline started when we became dragged into a non-winnable war in Vietnam. And it got worse ever since. Only Carter tried to stop the decline but nobody wanted to listen to him.

      • Conservative at Birth

        Carter tried to stop what? What a load of crap.

        • BigBadJohn

          for one he tackled the Nixon/Ford out of control inflation. The only thing Ford did was print up a bunch of buttons that said “whip inflation now”. Carter actually made the hard choice and did the right thing, of course it slowed down the economy. But because of Carter making the tough choice, Reagan inherited a controllable inflation.

          • RHSchumann


          • Wandamurline

            I beg to differ on Carter, until now, the worst president ever for America. Under Carter, our military was the laughing stock of the world, and under his watch inflation was high…the interest rate at the time was from 18 to 22%. I know, I was here when he was president. He sent over a team to save some hostages in the middle east, and our teams ended up flying into each other…it was a total disarray and very embarassing to America. But there is a light of hope for Carter, with the election of Obama, he no longer will hold the title of the worst president ever…Obama will win that title hands down.

          • texastwin827

            Wanda, while Carter was not a good President, you have your own facts confused (I’m 65 so was here as well). The helicopters that went in for the rescue (of American hostages being held by Iran) went down because of sand storms/mechanical problems.

            What you are thinking of is a horrible refueling accident in which a helicopter collided with a fuel tanker, causing the death of 8 servicemen. See the 4/24/1980 Address of Carter’s below

          • refuse2lose

            Yeh,Carter was a real winner. His hatched up plan to get hostages out got people killed….. maybe you have selective memory.

          • Kate8

            I remember that it was during the Carter administration when the ‘hate America’ movement began in full thrust. Carter blamed America for all the world’s ills, and this sentiment was taught to our youth. We was part of the communist plan to despirit us, and it worked.

            Reagan brought back some of our American spirit, but the loathing of America was firmly installed on the Left.

            I also remember the general malaise under Carter, waiting is line for rationed gas at the pump, being told to sacrifice things like heating our homes (‘wear a sweater’). Carter was against prosperity for Americans.

            He was also an appeaser toward our enemies, and thought we should defer to them over ourselves.

            Yep. A real peach.

          • http://none Mike

            While I have to agree Carter had his problems. I have to admit people seem to have forgotten he had one major block in front of him. It was called OPEC and the oil embargo.He was dealing with a short energy supply and very little in the way of alternitive sources to deal with it. I dont think that without this problem he would have really been concidered the worst president ever. Mike L.

          • eddie47d

            That’s funny Kate 8 I don’t remember any lines at the gas pumps under Carter but I sure do under Nixon and that was 4 years earlier.

          • eddie47d

            Wanda; Carter is a good man and probably will always be labeled as a bad President. The hostage situation was unfortunate but so many with selective memory never bring up the loss of lives of 240 Marines in Lebanon under Reagan. He did not meet the challange and cut and run. I will give Reagan credit for ending the hostage crises and believe Carter should have tried harder. The main point is that bad things happen under all Presidents and few lives were lost in the hostage crises.

          • Christin

            Doesn’t look like Carter has changed any through the years either… still spewing racism and hate America rhetoric.

            More like a real “crab apple!”

            As far a obummer, my boys would say he is just “poo”… smelly, dirty and full of cr-p!
            (My boys shovel mushroom compost at the farm and appearantly, they have been reading the potty humor of Captain Underpants books.)
            Yep, crab apple is better than poo… BO/BS is the loser in this era.
            (Woodrow Wilson is the “poo” of the earlier era in America.)

            As far as the (many fraudulent) elections go… HOPE for the best… FIGHT for wrongs to be righted, but plan for the worst… and pray and stay with GOD.
            If we win our efforts and sacrafices will be worth it all; and if we lose our Free America then at least we know we gave it all we had.

          • DaveH

            You’re kidding, right John?
            Inflation rate for
            1974 11.8%
            1975 6.7%
            1976 5.2%
            1977 6.8% (Carter’s first year)
            1978 9.3%
            1979 13.9%
            1980 11.8% (Carter’s last year)
            1981 8.4% (Reagan’s first year)
            1982 3.8%
            1983 4.2%
            1984 3.5% (Reagan’s fourth year

            If you Liberals are going to post here, at least be honest.

          • Marten

            Carter was a real good human being….

        • Bob Wire

          While Carter didn’t get much credit, most of his initiative was rooted in sound reasoning.

          That the military botched an extraction attempt, he was given credit.

          That he warned all American 35 years ago the dire need to diminish our dependency on foreign oil, he’s not given credit

          That the inflation that started under Nixon due primarily to honoring his promise to end the war that gave rise to this inflation , Carter was given credit.

          Left to say, the American people are a tough audience to please. They want everything and want it now and will blame the sitting President for their discomfort and displeasure.

          Many that cast these stones of contempt were children back then and only repeating was they have heard.

          It was through Carter and Sadat (and his ultimate demises) that Israel and Egypt live in peace today.

          Would you like me to stop? I could continue.

          • Richard Pawley

            Every president since Nixon has said that we need to be energy independent but they are helpless to make us so. It takes the bought and paid for congress (the small ‘c’ is intentional) to do what is right in this regard. It’s like illegal immigration, all talk and no action. If we stand behind those who are newly elected as the country deteriorates over the next two years perhaps the rest of the electorate will wake up and we can get rid of those in congress who have been there forever. It is not hopeless although George Soros has spend hundreds of millions to bring down the dollar and the economy as he has done other countries. Gold and silver is great for those rich enough to afford them but the time to learn about freeze dried non-perishable food is now. It will never get cheaper (just don’t overpay) but my sources (and I said so in my last book) have more than convinced me that food and all imported goods are going to triple and maybe a bit more. The FED and their U.S. Treasury are certainly trying to inflate the money because of the half quadrillion in dollars in derivatives that they and their owners have invested in derivatives will make them a fortune if they succeed. Of course they may well crash the system but that is what Soros wants. He has made fortunes in the other countries he has ‘crashed’ but he is having a harder time here although he has spent hundreds of millions doing so, almost defeating Bush in 2004, and establishing front organizations like and several dozens of others. If we don’t fight him and those in congress who support his plan we will not like the future and THESE will be the good old days! Without God I do not believe it possible. In that the nearly 600,000 who were at the Restoring Honor Rally on August 28th in Washington were surely right.
            These could well be “The Last Days of the Late Great United States”.
            Just remember that the rest of the title is “and the Great Famine that Followed”. No, one can say when but even the CIA came to that conclusion a generation ago. Those who cannot or will not prepare may not deserve what they will suffer but since everyone – as in ALL – will be affected, those who refuse to do so are very foolish indeed, like the unwise virgins mentioned in the gospels. Since no one can tell you exactly when this will all unfold it behooves a reasonable person to situate themselves as best they can and while a few silver and gold coins might be nice, non-perishable food will be of much more value, until the new system is established. Better to be ten years to early than one week to late, and we will be fortunate if we have two years, much less ten. May God bless all who read this and take it to heart. DUM SPIRO SPERO.

          • RHSchumann

            Looks like I kicked off a lively discussion by bringing up Carter’s name. All your points are well taken. Had we listened to Carter 30 years ago, tightened our belts and return to good old American values, we would be in much better shape today. Under Carter, the USA was leading in the development of alternate energy. Reagan undid it all and Bush II finally killed most of it. We are now sucking you know what and the Chinese and Germans are leading the world in the development of alternate sources of energy.

          • DaveH

            When Carter took office he promised prosperity. After 4 years and an economy suffering from stagnation and inflation, created by the Democrats, he had the nerve to give this speech:

          • DaveH

            Yeah, sure, after Carter and the Democrats trash our economy, they admonish us to “tighten our belts”. Why doesn’t Big Government tighten their belts? Have you ever seen that?

          • Gene

            Ilived through the Carter Years where we had to stop at 3 different station to get a tank full of gas, the price went up 50% to 100%. I know because I was traveling all around the country for the company I worked for, so give me your Bull shit

          • eddie47d

            Dave H. The speech was absolutely correct. Carter said “we must face the truth” about our oil addiction. Did America listen? Hell no,we are as stubborn as an old Missouri mule. That is one of the biggest factors why we are in the mess we have now and it goes back before Carter. Then after Carter Reagan got us more heavily involved in the Middle East and we got hooked even more on foreign oil and wars for oil. Jimmy set the pace to do the right thing and Reagan set this nation back on the oil issue. Greed ruled the day once again instead of common sense.

      • Craig

        No such thing as an un-winnable war, only candy arsed liberals that wont let the military do their job.

        • Wandamurline

          You are right on that also. You see, I’m 63 and I’ve been around for a few years. In Viet Nam, Johnson (who got filtier rich off the war), decided that we could no longer bomb North Viet Nam, which left us with a suicide mission for our military. No wonder the war was not won…and the North Viet Nam stated later had we continue to bomb them, they would have surrendered. You cannot win a war when you let the news media and congress run it. My dad who spent 4 years in the tropics in WWII, says that America does not know how to conduct a war anymore…they are a bunch of pantiwastes…he sayss you know who your enemy is and you go after them regardess of anyone in the way…and only then will you be successful in winning the war. You can’t worry about civilian casualties because the enemy sure a hell doesn’t worry about them.

          • Karolyn

            In other word, we should be as immoral as the enemy! Two wrongs never make a right.

          • Kate8

            Karolyn, Do you know what they call a country who places its enemy’s interests before it’s own?


          • Dick Gazinia

            I was on the ground there during the Southeast Asian conflict. That war was unnecessary. Had we not bought a line of nonsense from the French about their former colonies wanting independence after World War II and suffered from ignorance of the local cultures we could have avoided the deaths and destruction. Ho Chi Min came to us first for help in resolving the conflict with France, but we backed the white Europeans without understanding the same desire for independence that led our forefathers to end control by England.

            Look at Viet Nam, Laos, and Cambodia now. Despite their atrocious governments they are tourist destinations and we import many products from there. We could have helped them set up a more rational government, skipped the war, and had peaceful relations all along had we bothered to really understand the situation. The majority of people in those countries are decent, affable, and actually like Americans.

            The loss of friends and the blood on my hands will haunt me for the rest of my life. The recognition that another cost of the Viet Nam war was it accelerated the decline of our country by draining national wealth and the lives of so many that could have made valuable contributions to the world should influence foreign policy in the future.

            John Myers is right. Alexander the Great’s empire, The Roman Empire, Spain, etc. all went into decline by over spending on foreign adventures and corruption driven by the greed of the powerful and elite. While China is building bullet trains and improving its infrastructure we squander trillions in the Middle East among people who will never like us, at home our trains are antiquated, our schools are a disgrace, our bridges and levees are collapsing, our borders are unprotected, and the people who could be binging our infrastructure into the 21st Century are unemployed.

            This is not Obama’s fault, or even Bush/Cheney’s. The decline started decades ago when we started electing leaders based on how they come across on TV rather than the quality of their character, the strength of their intellect, and the pragmatic soundness of their policies.

            Why do you think there are so many fools in government in both parties? How else could so many idiots, both conservative and liberal, have so much power when close scrutiny reveals them as bozos barely qualified to serve as dog catcher? It may be the result of the laziness of the electorate allowing sound bites and spouting dogma replace clear independent thinking.

          • Bob Wire

            If we’d been fighting a “just war” one for homeland ~ instead of “to stop communist aggression and secure the public peace for free and open elections” just because the French had found something else to busy themselves with ~ I might agree with you.

          • Average Joe Patriot

            Hey, Dick Gazinia? What planet are you from? I mean originally? I ask because you’re too aware to be from this one. This is the place they apparently put the spiritual rejects; you don’t quite fit, friend. Did you piss in the wrong Galactic Spittoon, or what?

            PS: Being of your generation, I thank you for the well-informed and -reasoned post.

            PSST:(Now, quickly: Get back on your ship and get the hell out of here while there’s still time.)

        • Gregory Zorn

          The milatary did it’s job and we won both wars, Iraq and Afganastan, within weeks. The problem is we stayed to nation build, American tax dollars for infrastructor in two 14 century countries. Republicans and Demacrats continue in this debacle.

          G. Zorn

          • Bob Wire

            ditto !

          • Christin


            Tax dollars for infrastructor… aka… Redistribution of American Wealth… by Progressives (Communists) not real Dems or Reps

          • Bob Wire

            “aka… Redistribution of American Wealth… by Progressives (Communists) not real Dems or Reps”

            I am constantly running head first into such statements as this.

            It failed to make much sense the very first time I hear it and it fails to make sense today.

            This was a response to a prior post regarding the money and effort spent by the US in rebuilding the infrastructure two war conquest and inferred that America citizens were being milked of their hard earned cash.

            First and foremost, how would you enjoy a “non distribution of wealth” ?

            It might sound appealing to a few of you perhaps but that’s not the nature of wealth. Don’t you work and produce with the intention of bring wealth into you life, into your control?

            wealth is constantly on the move, changing for one hand to another.

            Problems start occurring when too many horde too much wealth. This is what has happen today. They have more wealth then one might require for their needs, hopes and dreams and horde for power and influence or quite simple see little need to spend.

            Reagan was confronted with this a well, but at that time, times were somewhat different. People was making 10 to 14% on secured investments and seen no cause to venture beyond such safe returns. The economy was stalled. Much lower return interest rate broke up this log jam and wealth begin to flow again.

            Today it’s something different and my view does not allow me the insight to see what is preventing the wealthy for spending. I would guess or specular they have invested their funds in some other safe vehicle. GOLD? Silver? I really don’t know.

            I do know, this economy could turn around in 2 months time if the wealthy decides it’s a good time to invest in something else. It’d be like turning on a light switch.

            But wealth transfer is a very important and good thing. As a buyer or consumer, each is left with the responsibility to shop and spend wisely.

            Overvalued houses are a bad investment, and a buyer needs to understand you want a home first, one you may have and afford while the market is riding a wave.

            Overvalued cars is bad investment ~ but that not to say some fail to show large profits of the sale.

            The wealthy need a good reason to spend. They have managed to make such huge margin in the past few years , I feel perhaps they have became spoiled as today those huge margins are no longer there. But that doesn’t stop them from looking for them.

            wealth distribution or redistribution or re-re-re distribution is the natural nature of wealth. Without this characteristic currency would have little importance or value.

          • Christin

            Bob Wire,
            You fail to understand is correct.
            Middle Class Americans don’t want all their hard earned money to go for the BIG spending Progressive (over-whelm the system Saul Alinsky)Congress’s projects and attached Pork to buy their vote and Big Bloated Gov’t and its growing salaries and bureaucracies… with a definate progressive agenda. So many “groups” (ex ACORN, NPR…) receiving taxpayer funds are LEFT leaning and socialist/communist and that is unconstitutional to give them TAXPAYER money and giving them an financial advantage… that needs to STOP! We don’t want the collapse of our country with trillion dollar deficets… we can do with less. We can do more ourselves.

            As far as war is concerned… fighting on their turf after 9-11 was needed to show strength and resolve and to take the fight to them and keep them away from here, but now I wish our men and women would come home and be a force of protection for our country here at home. “Peace through Strength” was Reagan’s motto and we should have a protected Sovereign Nation on our Borders and from within. The Middle East has been fighting each other for thousands of years… we are spread too thin… if the military is not there to win (hands tied behind their backs), get out.

            As far as the REAL Wealthy … not people making $250,000 (like obama is trying to cap people’s income at that amount and demonize them and instill class warfare)… but the ones making millions (and billions) that is another story… they are the shakers and makers and they can take the risks if they wish. If they aren’t doing so now, I would gather to say it is because of the radical policies and idealogy of this administration. There is no stability and assurance of what is to come except MORE TAXES, BIG SPENDING DEFICETS, FORCED HEALTH NOCARE TAX, MORE REGULATIONS, LESS FREEDOMS, LOSS of Liberty and Rights… we ALL feel the approaching doom of evil and hopelessness, with the fundamental transformation of our Free Market Constitutional America.

            America does not PRODUCE anything anymore that is why there are NO JOBS. You want businesses and industries to COME back to America and bring the JOBS and Wealth BACK here, then EASE UP on the Marxist (fake EPA rants) Business REGULATIONS and TAXES and UNIONIZATION of Workers with pay and pensions out the roof.

            The oil industry is a perfect example of Progressice/Communist policies. Demo BO put an oil moratorium after the sabotaged new oil rig was blown up and gushed oil for months… the LA court over turned the shutting down of ALL rigs in the Gulf, but once again Holder and obama kept oil production, refining and JOBS shut down. The Gov’t and EPA which is NOT for a safe and protected environment, but for the de-development, de-industrialization, de-population, and redistribution of American wealth to foreign countries… the Islamic Sharia Law Middle East and Communist South America, have cheated the Americans out of the resources God has provided us with. BHO gave PETROBRA and George soros $2 billion dollars to drill off shore in even deeper water and Cuba with China’s help will drill north of that island. They are STILL drilling for oil, but America CAN NOT. Why are policies stopped to drill oil and gas in ANWAR and the BAKKEN? Forced Redistribution of Wealth and forced dependency on foreign oil… so much for FREE America to use its resouces for its benefit and consumption… Communist / NWO Agenda.

            Make the climate in America Pro-Business… not what it is doing which has driven it away to redistribute our American inginuity and wealth abroad. Bring back REAL Capitalism and Free Market, Free Enterprise in America… PRODUCE and have an abundance of JOBS. Now I think that answers why businesses are not spending their wealth to prosper America.


        • texastwin827

          Karolyn….immorality has nothing to do with it. You can’t fight a war like you are attending a Tea Party. The enemy doesn’t care how immoral they are..their goal is to WIN, at all costs and those costs are usually the lives of our soldiers.

          EVERY war has had collateral deaths. There is no way to avoid them, if for no other reason than the enemy deliberately uses them as human shields or hides amongst them. Except in rare instances, many of those “civilians” are NOT innocents, just as many of the villagers in Vietnam weren’t.

          If our soldiers are committed to a war, then Congress needs to butt out and let the REAL soldiers do their job.

          • Karolyn

            War is not even necessary. It’s all about power and money anyway, not about anybody’s freedom, although that can be a benefit.

          • Vigilant


            Your pacifist blanket condemnation of war paints you and others of your Pollyanna sect as true believers in a reality that can never exist.

            Perhaps you’d like to comment on the American Revolution. Do you have the mettle to do that?

          • Vigilant

            And might I add, when you say, “It’s all about power and money anyway, not about anybody’s freedom,” we can agree only insofar as the following: Yes, it is about power and money, as the aggressor nation projects its power and money to deprive you of your freedom.

            The tragedy is that that description also defines what politicians are trying to do to us today, in our own country.

          • alpha-lemming

            Hey…. what was the name of that band that did “Cisco Kid” and “Lowrider”??


            There you have it… Sometimes, War IS the answer.

          • Average Joe Patriot

            Karolyn: “War is not even necessary. It’s all about power and money anyway, not about anybody’s freedom, although that can be a benefit.”

            Karolyn, why am I agreeing with you on this?

            Except for that benefit part. Wars benefit only those who profit by them. Dead children and their mothers never profit from them. “Collateral damage” is a slick (okay, drop the “l,” said damage is a SICK) euphemism for wasted civilian lives, i.e., dead innocents. One cannot argue that even one baby in his mom’s arms needs to be blown to bloody bits. Tell me what he/she “stood” for? (Tell me what you THINK they would grow up to stand for, I’ll brain you with this damn computer.)

            You know what? Never mind the Evening Views, during the day I’d pick up a blood-smeared gun and shoot back at any @$$hole firing upon my non-combatant friends and family, no matter the political or religious persuasion. Making me a new combatant, where none existed before.

            Push comes to shove, when TSHTF, I don’t want anyone who would not do the same to even stand in my yard. Honest Muslims, Jews, Christians, Buddhists, Jains, Hindus, Confucians, Dervishes, dancing Woo Lis, atheists, agnostics, altruists, bis and gays, lesbians and cable personnel all invited. Scrape your boots on the curb, come on in. Lock and load, gentlemen and women. There’s justice to be done.

        • Steve B

          Agreed Craig….As an infantry squad leader in the central highlands just south of North Vietnam, I can tell you how sick and tired we got of the enemy running back and forth across the borders of Laos and Cambodia. It was well planned for them to hit us and run back….knowing we couldn’t chase them. Finally,after enough diplomatic BS we went after them anyway. Tough beans for Kissinger and his talk,talk,talk. It was war….and lives were at stake. If it was the politicians butts out there on the line, they wouldn’t hesitate to fight to win…….Always afraid we’ll hurt sombody’s feelings or offend some foreign power! Meanwhile our guys come home in body bags!

          • Average Joe Patriot

            This is hard for me to say to anyone who has been through hell, presumably in the name of our country and freedom, but Steve, who sent you there? What was your purpose there? Was it to defend the California coast? Was America being invaded?

            As far as I know, the only country being invaded was Viet Nam, yet again, (we were sloppy seconds after the French) and the Viets actually didn’t want us there, either. What were the Chinese Communists doing there? Another good question.

            As a wannabe free nation, I think they handled themselves pretty well. They threw out invaders, I’d hope America could do the same.

            Now they’re a trade partner. So what the hell was that all about? I’m 61, but explain it to me like I’m six. Here was a nation which fought off foreign invasion for generations, we were one of them which lost. Individually, we may find some pride in this American effort, but as a nation it was an embarassing defeat in the eyes of the world. For a bastion of freedom to be claiming to bring Democracy to Asia by doing what we did to a tiny country on the other side of the largest ocean in the world…

            For no discernible reason was this incredibly expensive police action fought, and lost. And if that particular “foreign entanglement” sounds familiar, perhaps you’ve been watching the current news regarding Afghanistan.

            Americans don’t do this to weaker countries, I was taught in school. What a load of $#!+, my father, a US Marine in WWII, was ordered to protect pineapple fields in the South Pacific, and the Japanese did as well. They were ordered to shoot each other to pieces, but no one could mess with the Dole fields.

            Weird, but instructive.

        • eddie47d

          Wanda; The big difference with WWII and the other conflicts is that our very lives were being threatened and we were attacked. We had a reason to fight and a nation to preserve (our own).With Vietnam and Iraq our lives and country were not threatened. Neither country could bomb us or attack us. We were the aggressor,attacking under false pretenses in both wars. Any nation can concoct a war so bombing the hell out of North Vietnam would have proved nothing. Only more blood and a false victory.

          • RHSchumann

            I too fought in Vietnam for two years. Back then I was convinced that we were doing the right thing. I therefore fully understand why those serving in our current wars would be defensive about their wars. It took me a long time to realize it but am now convinced that our engagement in Vietnam, while perhaps well intentioned, was a fatal mistake. Fortunately Nixon got us out of it and Ford refused to go back in when things went bad. And look at it now. Vietnam is one of pour most important trading partners in SE Asia and booming. The same will happen with Iraq and Afghanistan but only if we get out. Otherwise we’ll be occupying these countries for decades.

          • vicki

            Eddie47d writes:
            “The big difference with WWII and the other conflicts is that our very lives were being threatened and we were attacked.”

            And we arn’t being threatened now? 9/11 was not an attack on us? Are we observing the same history that you are Eddie?

          • eddie47d

            Vickie;9/11 had nothing to do with Iraq, where have you been? It was Saudi Arabia who educated and trained the hijackers. Either you believe what you said or think any old war will do to satisfy your lust.

          • Average Joe Patriot

            Hey, Vicki? Who attacked us on 9-11-2001? I haven’t seen the police report yet (nor our current president’s birth certificate, for that matter, but that’s WAY off topic), perhaps you have? Seen the police report of the crime of the century which changed all our lives? The forensics and investigations into the alleged perps backgrounds (many of whom are alive and walking around today asking, “Like, what?”)?


            Then maybe you’ve read the findings of the 9-11 Commission (and the equally informative one on JFK’s murder as well). Enlighten me as to how kerosene melts construction steel, the BBC becomes prescient re: Bldg 7, etc. How that pesky thermate ends up in molten steel burning weeks after the event. And why NONE of this is addressed by the official commission.

            Get back to me on some of that, would you please? Because a few of us don’t quite, sort of, get it? You know?

      • 45caliber

        If you honestly believe Carter was trying to be a good President, you need to restudy history. And I hardly believe that Vietnam was the start of our decline. If anything, Korea was.

        • Bob Wire

          It’s safe to say , he wasn’t attempting to be a bad one.

          Korea was left at the 38th parallel when we find it today. That’s the travesty of that war. Should it never been fought, hind sight says “yes”.

          But would we enjoy a bigger stronger No. Korea today? I think not.

          • RHSchumann

            Korea was different. North Korea attacked the South. The alternative to drive them back would be a united Communist Korea today. But who knows, perhaps a less aggressive and repressive one. But who is to know?

        • Vigilant

          You want to find blame for Korea, look no further than Harry S. Truman.

          I believe it was at Potsdam when, as a new US president, he acceded to the wishes of Joe Stalin and tacitly agreed to exclude the Korean peninsula from the sphere of western hegemony. Essentially, he showed no interest in defending it, and de facto telegraphed such to the Chinese, who promptly took him at his word.

          • Bob Wire

            I’ve been curious about the forces that were in play at that time, you have teased my curiosity.

      • JC

        Schumann is right. This whole thing has been going on longer than we’ve been alive. But it has to stop somewhere and it might as well be with the sitting Kenyan who seems hell bent on driving the last nail.

      • Average Joe Patriot

        Shumann: Having lived through it, I think you just may be correct. And it’s completely connected with JFK’s murder.

        Oh, I know calling it a simple murder, rather than an “assassination” sounds conspiratorial but, technically we have to say he was murdered, no? He. Got. Shot. In. The. Head.

        He was just the US President. And they didn’t call Columbo? No, instead they allowed the local yokels to handle it, then formed a Commission. Step back, folks, please, just watch it on TV. Better still, wait for the hardcover edition covering the Crime Of The Last Century. We’re taking orders in the order in which they are received.

        Same as with 9/11. Perhaps I’m just not drinking enough to keep up with this nonsense. If they can nail your ass from fingerprints and DNA off spit, explain how they CAN’T identify (or disqualify) 9-11 suspects still flying commercial planes for a living on the other side of the Atlantic Ocean? Or how a SINGLE passport just happened to fly out of only ONE person’s pocket, through a jet-fuel fireball, and lands on the sidewalk in front of an ex-policeman. Oh, and it belonged to one of the perps? Hold me, I’m collapsing in vomit; if this were TV I’d change the channel but…wait, there’s more.

        Nothing going on here, folks. Go on home. Go home, now, you’re obstructing the law, dammit.

        Well. I’ve been called stupid before, nothing new for me. But this to me is absolutely crazy, kids. Unpatriotic to ask for an honest police investigation, listen to the original fire department accounts, those from people who were in the buildings, demolition experts and local eye- and ear-witnesses, silly crap like that when we have an “official” explanation, an “official summary” as it were. Hell, it’s in “Popular Science,” a publication whose editors seem to have forgotten the basic speed of gravity.

        I’m so very tired of people bringing up 9/11 like a political punctuation point. If you knew the slightest thing about it you would just (and please, do) shut the hell up and cease using it like MSM pundits and our (“elected”) politicians do. They’ve absolutely zero right to use it for political leverage, unless they’ve proved the circumstances and evidence to be true or false.

        I know we’ve been “trained” to put our noses to the 9/11 grindstone of American political consciousness, I’m just not buying it yet. Give me time…gimme a LOT of it. Because no one possesses the right to fling that obvious unproven lie into my face in any attempt to win me over to their political viewpoint. If they can’t see through the 9/11 crap, they certainly can’t see through the $#!+ their favorite politicians are feeding them.

        It’s a watershed, alright. And if I ever meet anyone in this thread, I will be judging you by your take on 9/11. Whether you’re dumb enough to believe the official version, or smart enough to belong in the cage with the rest of us monkeys foolish enough to chatter about it all. (Or clever enough not to mention it at all.)

      • jfrodriguez-m50 gunner

        Mr. Schumman,this problem goes beyond Nam,probably started when general Ike allow the Russians enter Berlin first,Patton was right,we should have taken over then,now we are at their expense and on the way of this world wide push to control,take a good look at the countries there only a few non comunist/socialist and we were the hope for humanity.

      • Brian Wheatley

        It was not the Vietnam war, nor is it Afghanistan that is the problem. Were we to remove all of the current administration the question then becomes, “Who do you replace them with?”

        One point made was the moral decline of America. The continuing decline can be sensed by what we see on TV or at the movies compared to what was acceptable 50 years ago.

        And it goes further. The moral decline of America is seen in the corruption in the business world. Quite frankly I no longer believe anything that comes from the department of statistics in the US. Business and Government cannot be trusted.

        From the head to the toes, the whole society is sick. No one facet of society can be fixed to solve the problems. The only change that will heal this nation is a moral and spiritual change. When America was a more spiritual society that honored God then we were a healthier and freer and richer society.

        And the solution begins with me! I can’t change America except as I change myself. As someone once said, ” I have seen the enemy and it is us!”

    • Bill from Laos

      Agreed, Nov. 2nd was the start of saving our Republic. We allowed
      the banks and liberals to lull us into stupid slumber – this must never
      happen again! Yes! There is work to do, but we have had to rise to
      the task before – and we did! The American public has awoke – they
      are becoming aware that we DO have domestic enemies working against
      our interests. Slowly they are being identified – the centrals bankers aka
      The Fed, George Soros, Progressives/Socialists/Communists right within
      our borders and in Congress. We will get rid of these people as we must.
      Obama is on the way out; even his own are turning against him. But our
      biggest enemy is ourselves – ignorance and aplomb to let “whoever” lead
      without qualification like what we did with Obama; greed and surrender to
      material pleasures that result in no real wealth; lack of morals, integrity,
      character, self pride. If we continue to allow ourselves to sell out for
      money, cheap pleasures, security which is insecurity – then we are
      finished. We’re showing that we’re better than that.

      • RHSchumann

        So you really think that those who got us into this mess (and don’t blame Obama!) will do better given a second chance? Obama is trying to bring the banking system in line against the vehement opposition of the Boehners etc. Did you not check the voting record when banking controls were on the docket?

        • alpha-lemming

          To be given a second chance, initially you must have a first chance. We’ve had MAYBE 2 presidents over the last century that actually espoused, small c, conservative governance. W, McLame, and the other “progressive-lite… socialism is a good bi-partisan compromise between communism and a Constitutionaly restrained Government” recent Republicans are NOT conservatives. The only difference between the parties is the speed with which they’re implementing totalitarian rule. The Republicans are taking us to h*ll on a freight train… the Dems are taking us there on an SST!!

          So… after a century of progressive (Rs and Ds) ideology and implementation “fundamentally transforming” the country into the United States of FUBAR, I say give the T-party, conservative, Constitutional ideas an opportunity. Government IS the problem (not the solution) and the founding fathers knew how to keep that demon at bay.

          • jfrodriguez-m50 gunner

            Alpha-lemming,like the sunshine you have brought an idea,lets call th tea party into action and start a constitutional/nationalist 3 party and fight the other two that need to be dismantle

      • jfrodriguez-m50 gunner

        Bill,you have hit it on the nail,the only thing is needed is for us to get more involed,like the resistance fighters we are and convince others to get involved in order to save not only our country but maybe other countries still fighting for FREEDOM>

      • http://? Wm. Machabee

        I note that everyone says our money will soon be obsolete but am
        curious as to why everyone on the e-mail network is trying to get
        as many people to buy with that same money that will soon be
        Any comment on this type of action, which I have not learned todate
        to understand?

        Bill Mac.

    • refuse2lose

      I have to ask John…. how was it that we became so “wealthy”? We toppled countries and inserted leaders that would bow at our alters,we allowed killers to rape and murder innocent adults and children. Along with our wealth we also have tons of blood on our hands. And we will pay dearly for this,we might already be paying for it. Have you noticed that China is now the new “Bully On The Block”?

      • Yvan

        Don’t worry God only bless America, no body else.

        • Karolyn

          I hope you’re being facetious.

          • Bob Wire

            we are left to hope Karolyn

      • Jeep

        It happens every time with you losers…”we allowed killers to rape and murder innocent adults and children.” Really? So, American soldiers are rapists and murderers with “tons of blood” on their hands? Please, go to Fort Bragg and espouse your nonsense to the first steely eyed American paratrooper you see. A lot of the finest America has to offer have shed their own blood so you aren’t speaking German, Russian, Chinese, Spanish or any other language. Let me see…two words come to mind, one starts with an “F” and the other with a “Y”.

        • eddie47d

          When ANY country gets involved in preemptive wars they have blood on their hands. The Germans had boatloads of blood on their hands in both wars. We had plenty of blood on our hands with our involvement in Vietnam and Iraq. Certainly not as much as the Germans but is that so important unless you are into body counts. All wars are a disgusting use of human resources but they also don’t make every soldier into a cold blooded killer. Thankfully most are the cream of the crop patriots who do the best job they can and should be honored as such. Now when it comes to those who send us to war without valid reason;they deserve all the scorn that can be heaped upon them. They are the ones with blood on their hands.

      • Vigilant


        “I have to ask John…. how was it that we became so “wealthy”?

        It’s called “capitalism” and “American Exceptionalism,” for your information. It has nothing to do with the conquest and pillage of foreign lands.

        “refuse2lose?” With ideas like yours, you’ve never been a winner.

        • Bob Wire

          We let Europe fan itself out more or less as the American people held onto isolationist ideas willing only to lease equipment to Britain. Until DEC 7th 1941 anyway. That, ~ and the sinking of the Lusitania, Hitler and Tojo was red meat for hungry hounds.

          Allied forces was gathered under one supreme commander Gen. Eisenhower at Monty’s displeasure. Carpet bombing of all Europe was ruled out early due to the extensive damage of old Europe and her history. So a ground offensive was hatched by Franklin, Churchill and Eisenhower aided with allied forces.

          Europe sustained heavy damage never the less and after the war, America’s infrastructure still well en-tacked benefited greatly with assisting in the rebuilding of Europe

          That’s how we got so very rich as a nation.

          • Vigilant

            Bob Wire,

            Lusitania was World War I.

            “Allied forces was gathered under one supreme commander Gen. Eisenhower at Monty’s displeasure. Carpet bombing of all Europe was ruled out early due to the extensive damage of old Europe and her history. So a ground offensive was hatched by Franklin, Churchill and Eisenhower aided with allied forces.”

            Carpet bombing was indeed used toward the end of the war. The modus operandi was to let the Brits carpet bomb whole cities at night, while US pilots did the more “surgical” work during the day. The bombing of Hamburg created the first “fire storm” that killed as many (or more) from asphyxiation than did the blasts in 1943. Kiel, Cologne, and of course the famous bombing of Dresden were all carpet bomb attacks.

            “Europe sustained heavy damage never the less and after the war, America’s infrastructure still well en-tacked benefited greatly with assisting in the rebuilding of Europe. That’s how we got so very rich as a nation.”

            American entrepreneurial skills, abundance of natural resources and a free market economy made the US a rich nation. And she was so long before WWII.

    • Richard Pawley

      Dan, you do have to start somewhere but I hear the same old story in every presidency. We have to impeach Clinton, we have to impeach Bush, we have to impeach Obama! BUT THEY DON’T CONTROL THE PURSE STRINGS! President’s come and go but congress (the small ‘c’ is intentional) is there forever, until they die or we wake up and replace them. Well, that is just what happened for some, last week, but it is only a beginning. We must support these new people, watch them like a hawk, as we work to get rid of those who are bought and sold and must be retired in 2012. Americans have been asleep for a long time, while those who own the FED and others have sought to build a new world system. It started with Democrat Wilson a century ago and congress went willingly along as many have done so ever since. The fight to establish a new world currency and a world government continues to this day with George Soros at the helm. Now, I’m not saying that all in congress are evil but many are not free and they have been persuaded that building the new world system in not only good but necessary. Some 70 in the 111th congress are actually socialists (a nicer name than communist) and we need to be aware that they are not on the same page as those who love our country and who honor the principles of the founding fathers. OF COURSE, Obama will not be re-elected in 2012, but it may not make much difference if we don’t wake up and restore honor and morality to our nation. Socialism, Marxism or Communism, is the opposite of moral. It is license, it is the elimination of law, even marriage, ultimately it is death, destruction and chaos, and that is exactly what the one who is behind it all instilled in Marx and Engels. Christians call him Satan and his hand had been weakened in last Tuesday’s election. More were praying about this election than any in our life time. Let’s continue the fight and make it really uncomfortable for all who follow the path of the dark side. We can do that by refusing to hate anyone, and to restore honor and morality to our nation (and in ourselves) as we oppose those who want the opposite. The atheists do not like the historical fact that when those people who landed in Virginia in 1607 got out of their boat, the first thing they did was erect a cross and claim this land for Jesus Christ. Not all the founding fathers were church going men but they supported the basic suppositions that are in the bible. At that time the ACLU was merely a dark thought in the mind of Satan. Remember what William Penn (for whom Pennsylvania is named) once said, that “those who will not be ruled by God will be ruled by tyrants.” It is our choice. When Obi-Wan Kenobi, the Jedi knight in STAR WARS said that they would not have had a victory without the Clone army, Yoda said that victory was not the word to use, it was just the beginning of the fight and the dark side clouded everything. That is as true today in our nation as it was in the Senate of the Empire of STAR WARS. However, the sun has broken through the clouds over our nation and if we continue the good fight all will not be lost. The tripling of prices seems an inevitability but as Jesus said, that which is done in the dark will be exposed and last weeks election was only the first step in this process. Now is the time to watch the Senate and the House like a hawk as they may try to ram through all kinds of inflationary and economy destroying bills before January. The fight is not over. It has just begun.

      • Christin

        Good post Richard.

        A little TRUE History about William Penn in 1680:

        “The Pilgrims struggled to come to America in 1620. There were many other unhappy people in England who wanted to worship God in their own way, too. In 1680, a group known as the Quakers was being watched and persecuted by the king’s soldiers.

        A terrible sickness called the bubonic plague had spread through London. Thousands died and everyone but the Quakers was afraid to help the sick. William Penn watched as the Quakers bravely visited the homes of the sick and dying, trying to bring them food and comfort. The Quakers believed that helping another person showed the love of God.

        As the soldiers saw the Quakers helping the sick, they arrested the Quakers. Why were these Quakers taken to jail when they were really helping the people of London? Only because they were Quakers! Being a Quaker was agaisnt the law. ‘This is not right!’ thought William Penn. Penn admired their bravery. Instead of hiding, they went on doing what they felt was right.” {Sounds like good advice for us, too!} “It was not long before Penn believed as the Quakers did. Penn himself became a Quaker.

        William Penn, Jr. often thought of taking the Quakers to America. But how would he ever get the money to buy enough land to start a colony? The answer came with his father’s death. His father had been a friend of King Charles II. One time when the king needed money, william Penn, Sr., had loaned a large amount to him. The king never paid it back.” {Some thing never change!} “Remembering the money the king owed his father gave Penn an idea. He knew the king would never repay the loan in money, but perhaps he would repay it by giving Penn enough land in America for a colony. William Penn bravely set out to talk to the king.

        King Charles II was delighted with Penn’s idea. Not only would he get rid of a debt, but he would also get rid of the Quakers whom he thought were so troublesome. The king was so happy that he decided to give Penn a colony with almost as much land as the whole country of England.

        ‘What will we name the colony?’ asked the king. Penn suggested ‘Sylvania,’ which means ‘wooded land.’ The king decided to put ‘Penn’ in front of it, making the name ‘Pennsylvannia.’ Penn did not like using his own name for the colony, but the king refused to change his mind.” {Rulers are always right, huh?!} “Pennsylvannia is was! Pennsylvannia later became one of our first states.

        Penn thought about what kind of colony it would be. Penn believed that every man has a right to think for himself.” {We should be so lucky to have congress let us think for ourselves, too!} “Quakers, Baptists, Catholics, Protestants, and any others who wished to have religious freedom could come to Pennsyvannia.

        As the Quakers were joyfully making plans to sail, Penn wrote this in a letter to a friend: ‘…my God that has given it [Pennsylvannia] to me…will, I believe, bless and make it the seed of a nation.”

        • Kate8

          Christin, Thank you for that fascinating piece of history.

    • HFlashman

      One has to painfully laugh at the attmpts to blame every president in the past for casing the Decline in the Empire except the two that can be held responsible. Reagan and Bush II.

      Anyone recall the deficit in Carter’s last year? 63 Billion. Yep…that’s all it was. Anyone care to state the AVERAGE deficit under Reagan?

      Anyone care to show the price of oil (adjusted for infaltion) under Carter versus the two worst we have suffered..reagan and Bush II ?

      How about the bloated Defense Budget under Reagan and Bush II compared to other presidents?

      How about Pre Reagan, the two income family was an option…and since his disaster became almost mandatory?

      How about the decline of purchasing power of the avergage American and the accelration under Reagan and Bush II?

      Funny how now that the chickens are coming home to roost because of what reagan began and Bush II finished history is now being revised by the Conservative ilk who are scurrying like rats to blame evryone and everything but the true causes?

      Jeesh … reality hits, and Conservatives scurry from taking rightful blame. Par for the course ladies and gents…par for the course.

      • DaveH

        Anyone care to note that the Democrats controlled the House of Representatives for Reagan’s entire term? Anyone care to notice that the Democrats controlled the entire Congress for the last two years of Reagan’s presidency? Couple those with the RINO Republicans (of which there were many) and Reagan was faced with an almost impossible situation. As it was, he vetoed 78 bills (more than any other president in my lifetime), and 9 of those vetoes were overridden by a hostile Congress.
        Flashman, you are grasping for straws as usual.

        • DaveH

          And, FlashDunce, the one-worker family was destroyed by the Big Government buildup during the Carter years, and by the Democrats who controlled the House of Representatives from 1949 through 1994 and who controlled the entire Congress for 36 of those 46 years.

          • DaveH
          • Angel Wannabe

            DaveH, I’d like to add to that,__ I think some of the trouble too began in WWII___When the Men went to war, Women went to work and raised the family as well__Kept the home fires burning, so to speak. Those woman that were unhappy in marriage, when the men left for duty, realized in the course of their husbands absence, they could work, take care of themselves and the children._In turn the women who saw other woman managing families and work by themselves, thought they can do it too._-I think this lead to a lot of women in the work force and the children left in daycare!__When this occurred, the good ole’ Government intervened, and rather focus on trying to keep the family unite together, the Government took the Fathers role!__Thus the breakdown of the family and thge entitlement__welfare.

          • DaveH

            I love it when two people in a family work because they want to get ahead in life. I don’t love it when they both have to work because Big Government is wasting our financial resources. It is especially onerous when that money is going to others who don’t want to work at all, essentially making slaves of those who are trying to take care of themselves.

          • Christin

            Dave H.,
            Accurately stated… my sentiments as well.

        • HFlashman

          As I stated…scurrying like rats trying to revise history to avoid taking the heat for their programs and destruction of the America we knew. And simulataneusly screaming for more of the same policies which has brought us to this point.

          Jeesh …

          I have to admit, there will be a sort of enjoyment watching and reading the reactions when it sinks in that the GOP you just helped elect…stabs you in the back and screws you royally. But of course, it will still be everyone’s fault but your own….

          • vicki

            HFlashman really needs to focus.

            Most of us here have pointed out for nearly ever that the difference between the Democrat party and the Republican party is the speed by which they are stabbing us in the back.

            IF you really were the liberal and freedom loving person you claim to be you would be voting straight libertarian till they become corrupted.


          • Christin

            Hey Flash…
            How much is the government or soros paying you to write this liberal stuff on this CONSERVATIVE (not RINO Repub or Communist Demo) site, eh man???
            Are our TAX dollars going to you to interrupt our conservative discussions? Because I’d rather keep my money.

          • HFlashman

            LOl…Christian…so if I write that you’re a buffoon…I am being paid for it? And…gasp…I must be doing it with public tax dollars? Let me say this…whatever drugs you’re using, stop taking them. Come back to reality.

            When i read these comments, they fall into one of three catagories.

            A few,very few, posts are sane, well thought out provacative and viable suggestions of policy and action. A large minority are wayyy out in Lala land demanding and screaming for actions which would send this country straight into a Depression or dictatorship. And the remainder are very apparent in being robotic meanderings of posting what they just heard on FOX or from a paid talking head…garbage in, garbage out…parroting the lines of the GOP leadershp and cheering for just saying ‘no’ and putting forth nothing to help this Nation.

            What’s hilarious is I do the same here as i do in face to face conversations with friends who are “conservative” and other people when discussing politics .. hit them with facts. What follows is very similar…stuttering, hemming and hawing, ignoring the statement…or blaming the Democrats or “liberals”.

            Bring up the worst president we sifferd from prior to BushII..Reagan. Point out the decline of Middle America since his policies. point out the deficit and debt due to his disater, the establshment of an entrenched monied elite due to his disaster, the blatant violations of the Constitution, trading with the enemy etc..

            And they come back with slobbering inanities..and always end with “he won the Cold War’. (btw, Reagan didn’t ‘win” squat. He was the one lucky enough to reap the benefits of the long line of past presidents who actually fought that war).

            So I’ve come to realize in my middle years…

            Conservatives are pushed by greed, or by fear, or by ignorance, or stupidity, or are easily manipulated, or have the same goals as terrorists (the destruction of this Nation as we know it)…or all or some of those.

            So Christian .. my question back….are you being paid to be ignorant? You should…you are excellent at it.

          • Christin

            Lots of demonization… let’s me know you are executing the Liberal Lefty game agenda. Still playing the childish game of Demo VS Repub… get over it… it isn’t about those two Establishment parties anymore, dude. Anybody who continues to bash those two parties is living in the past.

            The fight is between the Saved and the Lost… in America and in the World. Pick a side, Flash.. your choices are:

            The God-loving Constitutional Conservatives who want the Rule of Law in our Free Enterprise, Free-Market, Capitalistic sovereign nation and love the Freedoms, Liberties and Rights endowed by our “Creator” who are on God’s side. That would be the Saved in Christ, middle class America, the heart land, those that support the Tea Party. Constitution and envision a better America with God at the helm.
            (The Constitution of the US of America is the only system of gov’t that has succeeded in giving the MOST Freedoms, Liberties and Rights to its prosperous people…until Godless evil men sought to take America down brick by brick.)


            Those that thrive on Godless Socialism, Marxism, Communism, Facism or Dictatorships that want government/NWO control of the people, industry, food, money, businesses. The Lost here support de-population (death and despair…sickness), de-development (no more production), de-industrialization (no more businesses to be successful economically), and Redistribution of Wealth (lowering Americans’ income levels and sending it abroad… through forced purchase of foreign oil, foreign products- ie. China…). True History and God and His Laws will have to be erased and you will worhip Earth and take commands from the Dictator of the NWO.

            Good luck with that stance, Flash.

            “Be strong in the Lord and in the strength of His might. Put on the whole armor of God, that you may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil. For we are not contending against flesh and blood, but against the principalities, against the powers, against the world rulers of this present darkness, against the spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places. Therefore take the whole armor of God, that you may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand. Stand therefore, having girded your loins with TRUTH, and having put on the breastplate of RIGHTEOUSNESS, and having shod your feet with the equipment of the Gospel of PEACE, above all taking the shield of FAITH, with which you can quench all the flaming darts of the evil one. And take the helmet of SALVATION, and the sword of the SPIRIT, which is the WORD of GOD [Bible]. PRAY at all times in the spirit…”
            EPHESIANS 6 : 10 – 18 [Holy Bible]

            And that my friend is the God’s honest Truth!

            PS. I am an educated lady with substantive discussions, a Christian, and mother of two and your rude portral of me and others here is damning on your ruthless character and lack of integrity toward your fellow American.

            May God bless you anyway… and change your heart.

          • eddie47d

            Good points Flash; I stay on this site just to see who will come up with the next big lie or fancy footed smear. They never disappoint me on any given day. Now some comments are excellent and show a true love of America and the battles between rights and wrongs. On the other hand some are bizarre,hateful,treasonous(yes,from the right)and lack much common sense. It’s funny how some repeat the same thing over and over straight from Glenn Beck and a few other sources; yet shudder when an opposing view is presented. Some on this site are very well informed (that includes left and right) and some come across as bitter old fossils who haven’t stepped off their front porch in years.

    • John Marson

      The solution is to pass the Fair Tax and get rid of the IRS! This will result in a boom in U.S. exports, production, and jobs such as the world has never seen!
      John Marson

      • Al

        Hi John,

        You know there’s no such thing as “fair tax” secondly you can’t get rid of IRS before you get rid of its creator, the Federal Reserve System.
        By the way, FRS is the catalyst that led to what we are facing today. In short, when the international elite banksters created the FRS in Georgia it was like “asking the fox to build the hen house then install the security system”. Congress and FRS created a “debt by design” that never meant to be paid off.

  • http://none Mike

    We arent dead yet. Things can recover for us but we have to get the burden the federal goverment has laid on us off our backs. We must reform our tax system first of all and do away with the 16th amendment. We need the fair tax system which will turn us from the overtaxed buisness death spiral to the Tax free haven of the world. Would take huge steps twords paying down the debt. Secure our borders and deal with the illeagles that are here now that will take alot of the burden off our overextended welfare programs and medical programs. Persue our own natural resources again so we are not beholden to the middle east for our energy needs. And in that same vein persue real alternitive energy sources not green fairytails. Re dedicate ourselves to being the worlds leader in technologies not lawyers.We in america need to throw on that creative switch again and get out of this self induced daze we are in before it really is too late to turn it around. And last but not least Lets take pride in america again and stop attempting to be the world citizen nation these folks that have been in power want us to be. If that means a little isolationism for a while so be it. Lets get our house in order and stop tring to clean everyone elses house for them. Mike L.

    • Robin from Arcadia, IN

      Mike… I couldn’t agree more! The Fair Tax needs to be enacted, we need to use our own resources, we need to secure our boarders and we need to deal with the hand outs! It’s going to get ugly, but we can see solutions which means it ain’t over yet!

      • Patriot1776

        Half of the Founding generation “saw a solution” too that didn’t translate to their ties to England being reconcilable. We are too far gone to solve our problems through the Federal ballot box. The public as a whole and our representation doesn’t have the balls to do what has to be done in order to save the future of the Union. We MUST focus on local and State representation to have a chance. But, without opening the eyes of the public to the fiscal disaster that is on the near horizon(and I don’t believe that most people know just how bad it is)we wiil fall. And sooner than you think.

      • JRC

        The problem I see with using our own resources at this point in time is the following. Resources are limited period. If we at the current point in time, where there are still resources that we can buy for a reasonable price, plunder our own resources, what will be left for our kids and future generations? Are we so short sighted that we want to rob our own resources just so we save what…a couple of pennies or a buck at the pump? That thinking will lead to a decline of the US even faster as it happens now. It is far better to take the long view and say hey, we have all those resources, leave them in the ground until the rest of the world is hurting then we will again be in a position of power and wealth. The push to open up the national resources comes from the corporations that have only one thing on they’re mind, how can we maximize our profit NOW and the fux with future generations.

        • http://none Mike

          JRC, I am talking about useing our own resources as a stop gap mesure untill we have time to develop alternatives. Such as natural gas for power generation and clean coal tec for power plants. There are huge strides being made in the area of hydrogen fuel cells(quiet supressed by our media)for cars. That as exaust only produce water. Really excited about that one which seems to me to be the answer to alot of our transportation fuel needs.I have stated before that I think this persuit of ethanol is a pipe dream. It consumes far more of our farm resources than the energy produced. Same with wind to me that is too unstable to be more than a supplimental energy source. Solar has made some intersting advances in the last few years but still is about 20 years away from being truely viable.Electric cars have sever limitations as well beside the fact that the metals used in the battries are toxic. We would just be switching from one problem (fossile dirty fuels)to another with battries (main source of raw materials for them comes from china)So I say lets get our own here for now and work on developing these tecnologies here. Not only that lets start developing new technologies here in the states. I see us makeing huge strides in space if only we had the will of the 60′s again.Entierly new engin technologies and telescope tecnologies. Mike L.

          • eddie47d

            Both comments from Mike and JRC needed to be said and are relevant. Thanks

          • http://none Mike

            Thank you Eddie, See some liberals and conservitives do have a common ground in commn sence. That fact alone gives me hope that through education we can win in the battle of ideas.:) Mike L.

        • Vigilant

          For once I agree with eddie.

          Mike and JRC, you both make good points. The big problem with dependence on Middle Eastern oil is that our share of that market has increased from 20+& in Carter’s time, to over 60% now. National security considerations alone, we should have “drill ready” projects in place to stave off any major disruption of oil flow. In not too many months or years from now, Iran could foment just such a crisis, and we need to be ready for it.

          Oil dollars help to sustain terrorist actions throughout the world.

          Secondly, the childish fear of nuclear energy needs to be overcome. France is 85% dependent upon nuclear power plants, and we need to take a lesson. Pollution is zilch, spent fuel can be easily disposed, and strict controls can be applied to minimize accidents.

      • DaveH

        What we need, Robin, is a Flat Tax. I’m not talking about a Flat Rate Tax. Every adult should be liable for the same bill. Just as a car dealer can’t get away with requiring an income statement before he tells you the price, neither should the Government be able to.
        If we all had the same skin in the game, you can be sure people would vote for a lot less wasteful government.

        Something to think about for the popular Fair Tax:

        • vicki

          I think obama is on to your flat tax idea. Doesn’t he have a “tax” on you if you don’t buy health insurance. Isn’t it the same amount no matter your ability to pay?

          Oh and car dealers can and do modify the price they sell a car for after they get your income statements that you submit to try and get a loan to pay for the car. They can and do modify the price just by dickering with them.

          One of the big draws to the Saturn line of cars was the no hassle, this is the fixed price, have a nice day approach of the Saturn sales teams.

        • http://none Mike

          Dave , The problem with any other tax that does not involve the repeal of the 16th and the abolishment of the irs is this. No matter what new scam the fed comes up with it can be manipulated.In the end not all people will pay the tax and we will still be picking winners and loosers through the tax system. With a national sales tax we get to keep what we earn and do what we will with our monies. Mike L.

    • kathie

      Thats correct Mike. Now we need to make our politicians see it this way.

  • DaveH

    Methinks John is a plant from the left. Roosevelt may not have been the first President to grow the Federal Government, but it did grow dramatically under his presidency:

    • DaveH

      I’ve been hobbled by a chronic illness since age 26. But I still managed to achieve a reasonable amount of success in spite of it. Was the illness beneficial because I surmounted its effects? I think not.

    • Kinetic1

      Can’t be from the left since the solution is always “physical gold”.

      • DaveH

        What John is recommending about Gold is just good common sense for anybody who knows anything about money creation. You don’t need to be Conservative or Liberal to have enough sense to protect your savings. I doubt even the fresh faces in Congress are going to be able to stop the rampant money creation. If you don’t want to protect your savings from the weakening value of the dollar, be my guest.
        Of course for you Liberals it will be no big deal, as you will just lobby to take the property of the people who did their homework and protected their savings.

        • Kate8

          Since the government’s confiscation of all gold is already being planned, I just don’t understand what good it’s going to do to have it.

          Will someone please explain this to me?

          • Angel Wannabe

            kate*, other than to get money out of the banks hands___nothing!__It won’t do any good. Hell if the bullies want it bad enough, they’ll trash you and your house to find!_-America is no different than any other Country anymore.__as I said before it’s just sad___

        • DaveH

          I like silver myself.
          Can’t you two try being a little more positive, lol?

          • Angel Wannabe

            DaveH, Well, We have our days, some up some doen!__I guess it depends what you’ve been reading prior to posting on here!__lol

          • Kate8

            DaveH, Living in California and seeing the devastation wrought by liberals, and having another crop of them just elected and given even MORE power, doesn’t do much for my spirits. There just isn’t any cure for stupid.

            Got any good news? I could use some.

          • vicki

            Kate8. The price of lead is still way below the price of silver. :)

          • Christin

            Good news…
            Rep Darrell Issa, R – CA, the likely new chairman of the House Committee on Oversight and Government Reform plans to challenge obama’s agenda and plans to broaden his own committee’s agenda, including hundreds of hearings and investigations of THE BANK BAILOUT, the FISCAL STIMULUS package, and possibly HEALTHCARE reform.

            This fiscal conservative wants each of his seven subcommittees to hold “one to two hearings each week. I want seven hearings a week, times 40 weeks.”

            Issa also plans to name aggressive conservatives to chair some of his subcommittees.

            Although, Vicki’s good news about lead is funnier. :)

        • Bob Wire

          ” Of course for you Liberals it will be no big deal, as you will just lobby to take the property of the people who did their homework and protected their savings.”

          Now what does that mean? We are required to do homework to lord over our dragons horde? And if we don’t, it’s okay for someone to take it?

          and Liberals won’t mind?

          So why would they not mind? What is it that you see unique about a liberal that sees “taking” not earned as okay?

          California is a wealthy state and the people creative and industrious.

          There was at one time great abundance there, which has now been consumed by illegals exiting Mexico in numbers too great to absorb. They are not liberals, they are illegals and drain social systems and roadways and increase demands on infrastructure without supporting the tax structure in a meaning full way.

          This has been permitted to continue as cheap labor is seen as good and their numbers being down labor rates.

          While this is very self defeating, ~ as everyone is left to pay the freight of the people that engage in this practice the most. Those people that engage the most are “business” and people “well to do”.

          They shave a few pennies at every chance while their activity in known to be unsustainable.

          The wealthy fear allowing them citizenship would increase the DNC voting base, so they can’t be permitted citizenship and become a contributing part of the American system and community. And yet the need for cheap labor refuses to address the flow of illegal immigration.

          What a mess! and “liberals” gets all the blame for this debacle!

          Very Clever thinking! The whole world would be a better place without half it peoples. Is a fair statement I suppose.

          So what the next diabolical plan ? Kill or starve off half the world population? ~ I guess you know that been considered and in practice as we speak and takes many forms and done in many ways, from sterilization via food supplies to just hacking to death.

          there needs to be some middle ground in this battle somewhere.

          China and Japan have both had to address population growth and birth control. Maybe it’s time for the Western Hemisphere to consider the same.

  • John Myers

    Dear Kinetic1,

    I first recommended gold to Liberty readers in September 2009 when bullion was trading below $1,000 per ounce. Gold hit an all-time high this week of $1,424 per ounce.

    In the past 16 months I have also recommended resource stocks. In fact on May 5, 2010 I advised Liberty readers to sell or to short BP (NYSE: BP). That day BP was trading at $52 per share. Two months later it was trading at just over half that price.

    To date buying physical gold has worked out pretty well. But my solution is NOT “always physical gold”.


    John Myers

    • Kinetic1

      Of course you are right, Mr. Myers. This was a simplistic jab levied at your expense and aimed at the right wing talking heads like Beck who hawk collectable gold coins from over priced fear mongers. Certainly your expertise is of much more value than their paid advertisements. I do wonder, however how quickly the value of gold might drop if Americans regained confidence in the future of the dollar?

      • Conservative at Birth

        How is anyone going to gain confidence in the dollar? Are you an Ostrich, with your head in the sand?

        • Kinetic1

          Ahhh, I didn’t say there wasn’t a reason to fear the decline of the dollar, only that it pays to keep average folks fearful and encourage them to invest in gold. I’ve been aware of gold since the oil crises of the late 70′s and I’ve watched as the price jumps when the nation’s confidence is low. Over the last few years, any investment in gold was worthwhile, but I can’t help but think about the windfall the “serious” investors are reaping since these folks often have the influence and power over our media.

        • JC

          The thing to be aware of right now is not a decline in the dollar, but a complete collapse. “Stimulus” will bring that on much more quickly and that is, I believe, the intent.
          Invest in every precious metal. Not certificates…actual in your hands assets.

      • Angel Wannabe

        KINECTIC1_-open up your freakin eyes, everything price wise is going up. Go ahead and claim your idiotic antics that it’s ALL fear mongering, the proof is in the pudding my friend, unless your rich and your help buys groceries, you obviously wouldn’t know!!!_Nothing can stay as high priced as it is, for this long. Its gonna implod at some point, it has too!

      • Al Sieber

        Kinetic, it’s the world that lost confidence in our dollar, I prefer to call it a “Fed. Reserve Note”, to find the definition of a dollar read the coinage act of 1792. there will be no good paying jobs until manufacturing is brought back to this country, and we get rid of the Fed. Reserve’s control of our money. there are quite a few countries that won’t accept our currency now.

    • Randy G

      What can you do IF you have some of the old dollar bills that are gold certificates or silver certificates?

      • Angel Wannabe

        Randy I asked my husband, he said he doesn’t think they’re worth much more than a Federal Reserve note___Anyone else perhaps know?

      • DaveH

        Some Silver Certificates have sold on Ebay recently for $1.72 each with free shipping. So I guess the answer to your question is “not much”.
        You can find a more detailed answer here:

        • JC

          .45 ACP is selling at around .79 a round too!
          Don’t forget those. ;)

  • Viktor Leben

    The currency sure is gone. Our arrogant rulers of the dollar are celebrating at Jekyll Island right now.

    It’s critical that Congress take control away from the Fed ASAP. I hope they accomplish this real soon. It would have been easier if the Senate was captured by the Tea Party folks.

    We are still number one in aerospace technologies. I think the next step the USA should take is automating (with industrial robotics) the production of aerospace products. This would bring the prices down. We could accomplish this. The other countries won’t have the high tech know how (except maybe Japan) to accomplish this retooling.

    • Kinetic1

      It might also help if GM and Chrysler took Ford’s lead and carried European platform designs over to the Continent. Cars like the Corvette and the Charger may be powerful and iconic, but what good are they if they can only go in a straight line?

      • Craig

        Corvette can only go in a straight line? You have never driven in a Vette. The newest Vette is astounding in straight and curves. Gives the Euro trash high end cars a run for their money for half the price too.

        • Kinetic1

          Yes, I’ve driven Vettes and “Euro Trash” as well. I’ve also read reports and watched as Top Gear’s “STIG” took it around their test track. Vette aficionados are passionate about them and they have good reason to appreciate the progress that has been made, but the Vette still does not live up to the build standards of cars like the Porsche and Audi. IMHO, most American cars lack the fit and finish of our Euro neighbors and continue to suffer from the idea that more power is the answer.

          • Claire

            Kinetic1–What about Jaguars? My ’69 Camaro took on a Jaguar XKE and guess what? I blew him off the road. Let me add–BMWs, Mercedes, Porsches, Dodge Chargers, and others too numerous to mention. I even took on a Vette once, and beat him too. The maneuverability in my Camaro is awesome. It is truly a well-built car and it sure has spunk. I have to admit, I am older and more wary so I don’t try any stunts anymore. The last time I did, my heart almost pounded out of my chest.

        • JC

          That is a fact. The 09 Vette was compared to the 911 of the same year and the only real difference was that the Vette was a little more powerful in a straight line and the Porsche cornered mildly better.
          That and about 35 Grand.

          I’m still boycotting GM and Chrysler until there is no Federal interest in the Companies.

          • Viktor Leben

            I never drove one but I hear nothing beats a Raptor (F-22) …

      • Claire

        I will keep my ’69 Chevy Camaro Rally Sport–straight lines and hugs the curves. I love it. My new Chevy Imapla–love it too. It is a keeper. And I won’t forget my full size ’94 Chevy van–rides like a Caddy on the interstate, been all over the U.S. and never broke down on the road-I keep it maintained. I love Chevys–always will.

        • Claire

          Geez— “Impala”

    • JRC

      Victor, you are plain wrong with your assessment. Other countries have overtaken the US with patents and technology on a per capita base long time ago.
      Do you really believe that everything build in the that industry is build on US know how and patents….nope my friend it is not. We as a country have one very important task in front of us and that is to improve the education of our children…and I do not mean improve it on moral or the account of christian values that will be a given…. no, I mean overall education and science that will make the next generations more competitive and knowledgeable in the world. Being at number 127 out of all countries measured in education is a shame and clearly shows that we as a country are losing the competitive edge we once had and it is also showing that if we don’t do anything, this countries glory is in the past. In order to “”dominate and lead”” in this world we need to have educated people…we can’t do that if our educational system is worse than that of a 3rd world country. And trust me, if we don’t do anything we will end up on the bottom of the list and by then, history books will talk of the demise of the great american empire.

      • Paul

        Education begins in the home. Since the 60′s, because of economic and social pressure we have found more and more parents absent from the home and in the work places. That leaves kids on their own to fend and educate themselves at home. Until we place more value on the family, balance budgets, get inflation under control we will continue to decline. Throwing more money at education will be just that, more money thrown away. As much as educators would like us to think they are responsible, if we look world wide, we would find countries that the emphasis is in the family tend to have the highest levels of education. Children tend to emulate their parents and without examples to follow at home tend to become more apathetic and parents tend to buy “love” and create “entitlement” children. We are living in the entitlement generation. Probably why 50% of people do not pay taxes and so many are in social programs across the country.

        • Viktor Leben

          Teach children , before they are 19..

          1)Math up to Elementary Calculus ….

          2)Teach Formal,Informal, Symbolic Logic with English Class …..

          I’m talking about combining symbolic reasoning with verbal reasoning skills.

          You can teach your children these subjects on the side !

          I took “Intro to Logic” in college, and it was fun. I wasn’t any good in the beginning. One day it finally made some sense. Got a D …

          I remember passing one of the test later in the semester, the look on the Professor’s face …

          He was glad that he had made a difference, he had gotten thru to this knot-head of a student…

          I wish I had been schooled in elementary Logic long before college …

      • Viktor Leben

        Nonsense ! ( I don’t really mean that about what you said, but it sounds good !)

        USA is numero uno in aerospace technology – we are the elite, light that candle and let’s go !!!

        Education is important of course – it depends what you are teaching though !

        Good comment JRC…..

  • Angel Wannabe

    Inflation is already on the rise, go figure._ A five pound bag of sugar, was $2.15 is now as of yesterday, at $2.99_ That’s more than a gallon of gas, which this morning here is, $2.87. Coffee, a large can $9.49__store brand coffee is $6.49?!__ Something had to give here. I remember a conversation, my husband and I had before Obama took office. We were shopping, and I was complaining about the prices of food, that prices cannot just keep going up,_ somewhere, sometime, the bottom has to fall out of it and re-adjust. __I thought it was bad then?!__Suggestion, Stock up folks, it’s only gonna get worse, before it gets better!
    __Sure were in a decline, empires rise and fall, it’s the way it is, ya either go with the flow or be eaten by it.__ Yes, Goods and services are through the roof! Greed, and an over reaching, out of control Government of tax and regulation, has pitched prosperity on a downward trend. The poorer we are the better the elites like it. Tighten up the belts folks__ Get to know your neighbors, and get some good shock absorbers, cuz we’re in for one a hell-of a bumby ride!!!
    Nothings gonna change until they stop the Federal Reserve. At some point when they’ll gain all the worlds money and power, when they do, they’ll implode, they’ll simply self destruct. Whatever goes up, must at some point come down!
    While I do get discouraged,__something inside always beckons___No F-IN way!!!!

    • marcel duranleau

      Warning America get ready to store dry food supplies for many months.
      Democrat and republican are puppets of USA Corporation.Muslim kenyan
      marxist professor Obama is president of USA Corporation. America has been dupe many years because of complacency. Be free, get the truth
      look at the the reel Republic july4,1776. USA GOV’t broke. Dollar will
      drop. Check out: Thank God for Our Great Republic.I am a Sovereign Being of the Republic of the Commonwealth of Massachusetts.

      • Bud

        Mass.? Hummmmm didn’t they stay liberial – again, and again, and again????

  • TIME

    John, A fine artical, but my friend its too late I fear.
    Will we be hitting the reset soon? As everyones hopes and dreams come crashing down like the Hindenburg. I think the answer to that is YES.

    I bought a blob of Gold back around 1978ish, as I recall its value back then was around $200.00 per OZ. So I guess I have either made money, or perhaps the dollar is not quite what it used to be.
    I also at that time bought a silver coin collection that had a face value of $300K I can’t fathom what its worth now.

    Strange the old guy I bought the collection from said in the future when we go to a “New World Order” will be worth 10 X what I paid, could he have been right?

    • Al Sieber

      I agree TIME.

    • vicki

      Well the silver content value of a 90% silver time is currently about $1.85 USFD (USFiatDollar) so if you measure the value in dollars you are doing well. If you are measuring value in silver or gold you are keeping close to “inflation”.

      1960 A silver dime was worth ~$0.10 and 6 of them would buy a dozen eggs
      5 of them would buy a gallon of milk
      and you would get real copper pennies back in change.

      Today 6×1.85=$11.10 USFD
      5×1.85=$ 9.25 USFD

      so you would actually be ahead. But remember silver prices spiked up starting in Sept 2010. Eggs and Milk have not caught up (yet)

  • RHSchumann

    So what is the solution? Or is there none?
    For one thing, we should immediately stop overreaching. That means reducing the Military to a size needed to defend the country. Stop both wars and don’t even think about starting a third one as some of those just propelled into power propose. Who designated the USA to be the policeman of the world? That was entirely our choice and we can decide to end that role.
    Secondly, and speaking of morality, don’t so much worry about homosexuals or nudity in the Media but consider immoral the billions amassed by a few individuals by gambling with the Nation’s currency and economy. Those who make a contribution like CEOs of corporations or inventors like Bill Gates need to be compensated adequately. But not 500 times what those earn who work hard to help them make the money. That is immoral. Without proposing a communist redistribution of wealth, there has to be a balance. In the 1950s and 60’s, work was adequately compensated. That is no longer the case and I know many who work but “earn” more money from investments than from employment.

    • Craig

      “Those who make a contribution like CEOs of corporations or inventors like Bill Gates need to be compensated adequately. But not 500 times what those earn who work hard to help them make the money.”

      Spoken like a true Marxist with no clue how the free market or a free society works. Who gives you the right to say how much somebody makes is too much? Got news for you boy. In this country nobody has the right to dictate how much money or success somebody can achieve. Get a clue loser.

      • Osage Boy

        Right on! Being 83 I have seen a lot. Hard work needs to be rewarded as does innovative and inventive minds but we do NOT need unions and Muslms in the White House always trying to “level the playing field.” If you don’t like where the game is played move on. Welfare should be given freely by those who have something to give but at their own descreatioin not by fiat!
        Osage Boy

        • JC

          Amen that!

      • Angel Wannabe

        Absolutely!__Just because your born in poverty, doesn’t mean you have to stay there!__America used to be the Country where dreams were made, but its been confiscated by bureaucrats and the money hungry scoundrels. There’s plenty of energy resources, and jobs right here on our own soil. If the idiots in Washington would stop the tax and regulation and get thehell outta our lives! It doesn’t take a genius to see what they’ve done to this great Land.

      • Winnie

        Yes, Craig we all have the right to earn our money. Few of the people in the US have taken that right and made it greed. No rules, no borders; take it all and stash it where it can’t be taxed. For those who worked hard and honestly for their wealth, I applaud. But for the few who lied, cheated, and killed for wealth, they have become arrogrant, over-indugent, and will have to face the balance soon.. They, too, will face their consquences in the Creator-God’s own time. But in the meantime the Americans, in all, must face the immediate consequences of the acts of the greedy.

        • Vigilant

          …and the GOVERNMENT is the greediest of all.

    • eddie47d

      Thank You Winnie and Schumann; The taking of Americas wealth has gotten out of hand for many year now. These CEO’s demanding 300-500% above the average worker is obscene. They are carpetbaggers raping America;No more than pirates raiding a fortress and leaving nothing behind. If anyone doesn’t believe their unethical behavior doesn’t effect our decline then they are delusional.

      • vicki

        You know I have seen CEOs come and I have seen CEOs go. Some where hired to expand a company others to close a company down. Not once did any of them come in and threaten to fine anyone who did not buy their product.

        I can not say the same for Obama and his demand that we buy his health insurance.

        If a CEO wants 500x what an employee gets there is NOTHING forcing the corporation into hiring him. When Obama wants his health insurance money he simply sends IRS agents to you and demand you accept him. If you refuse then guns come out. This is probably why they don’t want you to have guns.

      • JC

        Here we have two people a liberal (eddie) and a conservative (Vicki)
        making what they believe are valid arguments. Personally I side with Vicki here.

        I’d like to know if the Liberals on this site would agree with the quote below, or if anyone knows where it came from?

        I think some honest answers will demonstrate the difference in the Liberal / Conservative mind sets.

        The Quote:

        “We ask that government undertake the obligation above all of providing citizens with adequate opportunity for employment and earning a living. The activities of the individual must not be allowed to clash with the interests of the community, but must take place within the confines and be for the good of all. Therefore, we demand: … an end to the power of financial interest. We demand profit sharing in big business. We demand a broad extension of care for the aged. We demand … the greatest possible consideration of small business in the purchases of the national, state, and municipal governments. In order to make possible to every capable and industrious [citizen] the attainment of higher education and thus the achievement of a post of leadership, the government must provide an all-around enlargement of our system of public education…. We demand the education at government expense of gifted children of poor parents…. The government must undertake the improvement of public health — by protecting mother and child, by prohibiting child labor — by the greatest possible support for all groups concerned with the physical education of youth. [W]e combat the … materialistic spirit within and without us, and are convinced that a permanent recovery of our people can only proceed from within on the foundation of The Common Good Before the Individual Good.”

        Your thoughts?

        • Vigilant

          National Socialism.

          Sounds a bit like the progressive agenda in this country, doesn’t it?

        • JC

          Yep, it’s from the National Socialist Party of Germany (NAZI), adopted in Munich on February 24, 1920.

          And it’s exactly what we are up against as Americans…again.

        • eddie47d

          What progressive is actually taking their views out of the nazi play book. No sane person on the left or right would copy from their platform. Socialism is no more evil than capitalism;both systems can be used for good or dangerous follies. Besides,there was nothing Liberal about Nazi Germany, actually the opposite.

          • Vigilant

            “What progressive is actually taking their views out of the nazi play book. No sane person on the left or right would copy from their platform.”

            You’ve got it right, and it proves there’s little if any sanity on the far left.

            “Socialism is no more evil than capitalism; both systems can be used for good or dangerous follies. Besides,there was nothing Liberal about Nazi Germany, actually the opposite.”

            You keep believing that, eddie. Perhaps you should re-read JC’s post. The Left has long promulgated the myth that Naziism was far right, completely ignoring the fact that it was called National SOCIALISM for a reason.

  • Eric

    Folks, we need to have a call to arms, so to speak. I am not talking about picking up rifles and going to the Concord bridge, I am, however, talking about the American people picking up the weapons provided us in our Constitution and very forcibly demanding the government, on all levels, to rein itself in to operate within the constraints given it. Remember “We the people…”?

  • James Goad

    I for one among many,feel Obama MUST prove to us that he is a citizen of the U.S.A before we do anything else,if he can not prove he is a citizen,then we want have to go through all the law suits, every thing he has signed would be null and void,so please go after that first.JAMES GOAD.

    • RHSchumann

      Come on now. What does that have to do with our problems? Besides this claim has been long since exposed as a hoax.

      • Osage Boy

        If it is a hoax then there will be no problem in Oboma’s showing all of those closed or hidden records will there. SO lets see them! Note one who has gained a position illegally cannot be impeached only tried for violation of the US Constitution! Note that starts with Polose’s letter to the state of Hawaii “officially” notifying them that Oboma was a natural born citizen of that state!!
        Osage Boy

        • Paul

          The truth is that will not come out but what we need to do is stop the agenda he is doing. Lets say the do prove he is not a citizen do you think our braniac Vice Pres will be better??? Good luck with that. There are powers behind all of this that are far more of concern that need be stopped. Their agenda is to divide this country … “united we stand divided we fall” … the first division started years ago when they took prayer out of the school, followed by separating parents from children. The on going separating us from our money, especially in the past few years with the multiplying of national debt and now the FED flooding our economy with “fake” or play money. The devaluation of our dollar continues to shrink our assets and turn them over to those who our country is indebt to.

      • Randy G

        ARE YOU SURE???????

      • vicki

        RHSchumann says:
        “Besides this claim has been long since exposed as a hoax.”

        Pretty expensive hoax. He has spent upward of 2 million to keep his birth certificate a secret. Along with a lot of other interesting records that are (were) commonly public.

        Oh but wait. It’s not his money so why should he care.

        • jfrodriguez-m50 gunner

          Great input, Ihave been up,middle, and bottom economicaly am independent since leaving the corps in 66,my question and request is that all politicians and relatives be treated the same as us,that they show like we have to,the money trail and that when they want to be generous always lead by example,can not understand the double actitud,say one thing and do or show a different one.Not winning just want the feds out of my buss and private life do noit need them,99% of the are only leaches that live of us.

      • JC

        You mean the Kenyan’s claim that he was born on American soil?
        I don’t think that’s been exposed properly yet.

      • Vigilant

        A hoax? Why is the Supreme Court awaiting the adjudication of that question from a Federal Appeals Court?

  • Pat Ridge

    A good artical John,I don’t agree with everything you wrote but you certainly make some very good points.I think life would improve greatly if we did the following 1)Stop insulting each other –that goes for all sides Democrats,Repubicians,Tea Party etc and start working together 2)Get out of these crazy wars which are costing a fortune,by no means drop our guard 3)Find a alternative to oil,there has been alot hot air from both Parties but it’s time to get real,the only President that was serious about this issue was Carter–he was laughed at 4)Is it not time for a buy American campaign–I am wearing a Chicago Blackhawk sweatshirt no prizes for guessing where it was made!!!It seems the only thing made in the USA these days are Guns and Bowling Balls.

    • RHSchumann

      Very good. You are exactly on the money!

    • Angel Wannabe

      Pat, Your not goning to get anything done, until they deal with the Fed reserve. Until then all the strings of congress on both sides Dems & repubs are being pulled by them__Thats why nothing EVER gets done, NO MATTER WHOS IN CONTROL!__it’s the old adage, the ones who die with the most toys wins!

      • JC

        That’s right Angel. And through the media, the moneyed political interests keep us all riled up, in fear, losing money…and on and on… it ends with the Fed.

  • Polski

    We’re not even 300 years old and we’re done. All the bragging is just hot air. As an empire, we’re pipsqueeks!!!.

    • Bob Wire

      Well there is “much” to make you feel that way.

      But it ain’t over until it’s over.

      and on another note; there is some advantages of owing people money.

      Have you ever been placed in the position to where other people owed you money?

      It’s not as comfortable a position as some might wish to believe. It’s very easy to be controlled by the “short hairs” as the nerve seems to go directly to the brain. Your “attention” needs little lobbying.

  • Tazio2013

    The downward spiral will continue until January 20th 2017, at the very earliest, when POTUS #46 begins her/his first term. And he/she will not be a republikrat! Until then the entire sheeple population of North America will continue to be subjugated by the fewer than 1/10,000 of 1% nefarious, criminal, crusading christian zionist NWO/GPE/TPTB/Illuminati types and their millions of enabling sputniks. Fasten your seat belts sheeple; it’s going to be a bumpy ride. And jesus won’t be coming back to save the sheeple because you’re too damn stupid! Have a nice day and read The Daily Bell and if you can handle truth and reality. Does anyone really “think” that The Ohio Orangeman will do anything except accelerate the downward spiral?

    • Patriot1776

      Great post Tazio2013, Exept the Jesus coming back part because you can’t know when he will return :). But, John Boehner is a Decepticon. He is part of the problem and if we put our hopes in him we are going to be severely dissapointed. Just look at the B.S. that is the pledge to America, there is no real substance there. Just rhetoric. Where is the specifics? a return to 2008 speding? Thats crazy!!! how about a return to a limited government confined and resrained by the consstitution? What about the power they have to reign in the Federal Judiciary? they won’t do those things because they want to continue the usurpations of the States soverignty under the republicans rule. Wake up people. you are being sold by both parties. They have NO INTENTION of returning liberty to this Union!!!

      • Kate8

        Sadly, Patriot, I’m afraid you are right.

        There might be a few newly-elected who think they can make a difference, but watch. They will soon be taught the ‘ropes’ and their high-minded ideals will be reigned in by TPTB. The machine has become too powerful and in control, even in the places where we don’t see them.

        They are fomenting revolution so they have an excuse to act against us in a big way. They know that we are near the breaking point, so they push harder, hoping to inspire a loose cannon. Especially now that they know we are on to them.

    • Bob Wire

      “The Ohio Orangeman will do anything except accelerate the downward spiral?” Thank Goodness, I’m not alone with a private view. Him touching speech election nite left me a confused blank! Was that John or W.C. Fields?

  • wayne

    I think NObama and his cohorts love it when we are divided such as we are now. Being divided such as we are now, weakens the whole country. NObana should be trying to unite the country, but he is going in the opposite direction. Well folks, 2012 is coming. We have to get the Idependants on our side to take this country back again from those who want to destroy us from within. You will never get any help from the Liberal Democrats, but if we can win over the Independants, we can get NObama and his Zombies booted out. I can’t wait.

    • eddie47d

      Both Parties have weakened America,some issues in the same ways and others strikingly different. When you are only focused on the damage that Democrats have done but ignore the damage that the Republicans have wrought;then nothing will change. You will only send us back to the same troubles. Same picture,different cast.

  • babushka

    The clock is ticking toward the demise of this country and world as we have known it. John’s article can put blame on previous administrations, Wall Street, corrupt congressional leaders, US imperialism, unions, etc, but serves no purpose in light of what’s to come.
    We are powerless to change the course of events, as hard as that is to accept. What we are witnessing has been fortold in the the Book of Revelation. And that is the unfolding events of eschatology or end time events….the ushering in of the NWO and soon to be rise of the anti-christ. Converting our declining dollars into gold is not the answer as the world’s monetary systems collapse to be replaced by a universal currency…and a days wages will only buy a measure of wheat. “They will fling their gold into the streets and their gold will become an abhorent….not able to deliver them…” (Ez.7:19)
    The answer is to get right with God, call upon the name of Jesus Christ and you will be saved. Welcome Him into your heart, and make Him your Lord and Savior. Time is getting short.

  • Howard R Gray

    There is one major difference, the Tea Party Movement. No other empire created a Tea Party to solve the initial problem of absurd over mighty government with finances that have run amuck. The war Afghanistan will at some point run out of steam and withdrawal will come, no one wants to actually win the war thus it will end. Then we can attend to the problems here in the US of A.

    Niall Ferguson is right about the short run, the present nation will have to bow out of the leadership role of the earth. The world government freaks need their moment in the sun, we had the League of Nations (Failed) then we had the United Nations (Failed) now we might just get the World Government (Soon to Fail) then maybe the elites, you know the “Clever People” will learn that government isn’t an answer to anything that matters. Personally I believe in Hayekian spontaneous orders, the Austrian Economists have it right that much of what the state tries to do can’t be done. No amount of Keynesian gerrymandering will solve the problem. Spending out of recessions, beyond pump priming, is as far as it goes; the laws of reality are no different than family expenditure beyond the credit card limit. Families venture into fraud and theft beyond that credit card limit, states do likewise but they are above the law that is the only difference.

    America will be the first great collection of nations, the states, that has some chance of reinventing itself, it may not happen but I believe it just might, for that reason the Tea Party will be a haven for this process. The first port of call is the debt, it might be the last on the government’s list but it is vital to those who dream of a future. The massive uptake of reading and contemplation by the Tea Party people gives one hope that knowledge and courage are a huge resource to be tapped. The GOP is moribund to some extent in its leadership, it will take time to oust the grandees’ let’s hope that happens soon. Tackling debt and Federal overreach will be the big ticket items on the agenda for years to come. Earmarks and other porking activities will have to stop. Legislation should be top down coherent without add on clauses that have nothing to do with the title of the bill. Readable legislation wouldn’t that be nice?

    There are some things that will certainly change; the collapse of the dollar will be one big feature of the near future coupled with massive inflation stalling the whole economy, this will be an opportunity for a change, imports will no longer benefit the Chinese economy as there won’t be money to buy goods dumped onto ours, at last there will be some point to manufacturing within the USA….maybe. One can hope on that one.

    The ability to reset the nation will depend on a number of things, no thanks to the left and the “Clever People” the nation of commoners have some chance to exploit the meltdown caused by government that has run out of steam as it surely will. Keynesian debt won’t cut it, it didn’t work for Zimbabwe so who really thinks it will? Only the left believes in that fairy story, they will never be a viable option with or without George Soros. No socialist nation ever made it, or ever will make it, to super economic status nor will it happen here in the US. Defeating the left is almost as important at settling the debt question. What is fascinating is that the duel is on between the left and the Tea Party, my bet is on the Tea Party to win. This battle will be generational between the failed old guard and those who favour a good cup of tea. The original concept of the Unites States with its constitution is still a viable idea, it works way better than any liberal quasi totalitarian state. Can it be improved, of course it can, but not down the progressive way, that has been tried, millions have died in communist dictatorships and National Socialist boondoggles. The question to ask any socialist is why they believe that mass murder is an OK political strategy? Very few ever ask that question though it does need answering, time and again these fools ignore the outcome of their ideas. This time they can be ignored on principle and their ideas consigned to the dust bin of history.

    Perhaps for this reason more than most, the terminal decline of socialism has begun, history has outed them and this nation more than any other will bury them functionally at least. For these reasons I believe that there is a future for this nation and it is intimately connected with the libertarian and conservative natural order of the world. Tea anybody?

    There is a limit to government and we have long passed it, now is the time to experiment with limited government as a prime concept not a byproduct of politics. The engine of wealth always was free trade and consensual self interest between people coupled with a sound acceptance of the limits of human reason and a sense of the numinous often forgotten by the left ………………..G*D.

    • JRC

      Get a history book, if you believe there was never the equivalent to the tea party you are just too full of yourself and your importance.
      The tea party is a logical conclusion to the demise in the country and if you believe that people in the past did not have the equivalent of it you need to go see your shrink…don’t walk, run.

    • Vigilant


      That was an absolutely superb post!

  • Lana

    I agree with Myers about american decline. BUT physical gold? The Goverment will easely confiscate it the way it did before in America and practicaly any other country in the World. Where am I going to hide it from governmental hands? In BANK? In my Mattrass? Underground? In fact, Everyone who sells GOLD now submits names of a buyers to a Government, So it will be a piese of cake for Uncle Sam to come and get it, and what will you do? resist to tanks with a heandgun? Hm.

  • Norm

    I agree with much of John Myers article.
    Having grown up in the 50’s and 60’s, I remember America’s great days. Nearly everyone was very proud to be a part of the glory that was the USA. Everything American was good. We were a truly well educated, ingenious, creative, productive, and prosperous. We were respected by most of the world because we were good people.
    Then the decline began.
    Korean War (1950-1953), Vietnam War (1961-1975), Urgent Fury-Grenada(1983), Just Cause-Panama (1989), Desert Storm-Iraq ( 1991), Restore Hope-Somalia (1993), Europe-Bosnia (1990′s), Enduring Freedom-Afghanistan (2001-present), Iraqi Freedom-Iraq (2003-present). All paid for by credit card.

    Wars and revolutions and battles are due simply and solely to the body and its desires. All wars are undertaken for the acquisition of wealth; and the reason why we have to acquire wealth is the body, because we are slaves in its service.

    I hope our wisdom will grow with our power, and teach us, that the less we use our power the greater it will be.
    Thomas Jefferson

    America has been sold out. We despise communism, but we are now dependent on China for much of what we consume. GE just invested 2 billion $ in China for R&D! These aren’t those little jobs that “no one wants”. Then there’s India, Mexico, Viet-Nam etc. etc.

    Experience demands that man is the only animal which devours his own kind, for I can apply no milder term to the general prey of the rich on the poor.
    Thomas Jefferson

    I sincerely believe that banking establishments are more dangerous than standing armies, and that the principle of spending money to be paid by posterity, under the name of funding, is but swindling futurity on a large scale.
    Thomas Jefferson

    The wish to acquire more is admittedly a very natural and common thing; and when men succeed in this they are always praised rather than condemned. But when they lack the ability to do so and yet want to acquire more at all costs, they deserve condemnation for their mistakes.
    Niccolo Machiavelli

    • Angel Wannabe

      Agreed Norm!___Born in the 50′s myself__Our kids will never know the America we knew. We have been sold out, sold out to bureaucrats and the Financiers. Congress or the President doesn’t run America. the Financiers do.__Its just sad.

  • marvin

    only thing i have to say bush done it bush done it,but here in the real world of real pain and suffering and out of control liberal spending and saying, can,t we all just get along trouble is an,t nothing free,when you have a whole class of people that have never put a dime in the kitty, have been brain washed in to thinking we the people owe them like obamas aunt ,saying this is all gods country and you people owe me a living,kind of like all liberal morons have the mind set whats your is mine,so less take from the haves that work and give to the lazy none productive that won,t work,this is not for the sick and unable,this is for you that think cause someone done your ancestors wrong i owe you, wrong i an,t a citizen of the world or a million air i an,t black or brown i am an american citizen that knows the differance in handouts and a helping hand i owe you nothing ,work or go hungry we the american people are broke and can not feed the world

  • dan

    Hasn’t anyone noticed …we (the North American free-men) the people
    sit atop the resources,but the unelected bureaucracy denies us access.
    We have the knowlege (those who have not been dumbed down by the
    public/communist school system) and expertise (those who have not fled
    from taxes/regulations/corrupt legal systems)and the will (save those who have been neutered by the feminazis and PC crowd)to take our country back and apply the Constitution ,as it was intented,to LIMIT

    • Christin

      Yes, I have noticed… so are we going to take back our country or not?


    We as antion are fortunate, we do pay atention to history and we have been fortunate to have some mighty fine leaders who spoke with knowledge and clarity, we need to listen better.

    President Reagan, spoke as clearly as a man could and reached millions if not billions of people with his message, “Government is not the solution, it is the problem.” I for one have taken that message to heart because it is a repetitive mistake by this nation and others to rely on a big fat government solution to a problem, they ignore the input of the people who own them and proceed to demonstrate how elite they are, thus we are in a huge quandry with to much input and good solutions being ignored because of politick and man’s need to dominate.

    We are in flux as always but we listen to to many who have held power for to long and bent on CYA thinking in order to keep that power they have managed to acquire for so many years. The need to break this ongoing cycle has been demonstrated by PC, elitism and greed, pick a area of government and you can find this syndrome. The need to meet new demands to maintain freedoms and civility are ongoing but we have to be smart enough not to sit on our laurels and keep a good eye on fat accumulation to maintain the kind of Republic we want. Remember, those who ignore history……Let’s teach our American hstory to our kids and be proud of who we are.

  • dave

    It’s not that hard.If you take away the benifits of serving one term in government,just possibly you might get some people in there that are really for this country not its benifits to themselves.By the same token, what is inacted by the given powers in govt. today should not take twenty years to erase,if it is totally bad for the country and the people.Every one has to remember that they are supposed to be working for us,not their own personal gains.Now, when they forget why they were elected, then its time to get off your lazy asses,go to D.C. and take the country back as did our Fore Fathers.We have all become complacent,we have all let them get where they are today, we should have been bitching about this years ago,but no we have our beer,our little women,and our false sense of security for so long that we forgot to take care of the business at hand.Now is the time for action, not pissing and moaning!

  • newspooner

    The reason that things got better after WW2 was that America rid itself of a communist president. The new stooge for the communists was inept enough to cause less damage, and might not even have understood that he was a puppet.

  • Bob Wire

    “A half century later the U.S. was the largest borrower in history, the biggest buyer of fossil fuels and was posting staggering deficits. And by the dawn of the 21st Century the U.S. held slightly more than 25 percent of the world’s official gold reserves, or about $355 billion worth. That won’t even pay down 4 percent of the $13 trillion in U.S. Federal debt.”

    Ahem? hmm? John, there little need in going back 50 years ~ 30 will do nicely. Inside this thirty years the nation budget has balanced once.

    Inside this 30 years the national debt was much smaller the today.

    Fiscal Year Budget of President Party of President Federal Spending Federal Debt Gross Domestic Product Inflation Adjustor[14]
    Billions[15] Adjusted[16] Increase Billions[17] Adjusted[18] Increase Billions[19] Adjusted[20] Increase
    1978-2005 Democratic 9.9% 4.2% 12.6%
    1978-2005 Republican 12.1% 36.4% 10.7%
    1978–1981 Carter Democratic $678 $1,219 17.2% $994 $1,787 -0.4% $3,055 $5,492 9.4%
    1982–1985 Reagan Republican $946 $1,396 14.5% $1,817 $2,680 49.0% $4,142 $6,108 11.2%
    1986–1989 Reagan Republican $1,144 $1,499 7.4% $2,867 $3,757 40.2% $5,401 $7,077 15.9%
    1990–1993 Bush Republican $1,410 $1,615 7.8% $4,351 $4,987 32.7% $6,576 $7,536 6.5%
    1994–1997 Clinton Democratic $1,601 $1,684 4.3% $5,369 $5,647 13.2% $8,182 $8,606 14.2%
    1998–2001 Clinton Democratic $1,863 $1,821 8.1% $5,769 $5,638 -0.2% $10,058 $9,829 14.2%
    2002–2005 Bush Republican $2,472 $2,165 18.9% $7,905 $6,923 22.8% $12,238 $10,717 9.0%
    1977 Ford Republican $409 $1,040 $706 $1,795 $1,974 $5,019 0.39
    1978 Carter Democratic $459 $1,093 5.1% $776 $1,850 3.1% $2,217 $5,285 5.3% 0.42
    1979 Carter Democratic $504 $1,107 1.3% $829 $1,821 -1.5% $2,501 $5,494 4.0% 0.46
    1980 Carter Democratic $591 $1,175 6.1% $909 $1,808 -0.8% $2,727 $5,422 -1.3% 0.50
    1981 Carter Democratic $678 $1,219 3.8% $994 $1,787 -1.1% $3,055 $5,492 1.3% 0.56
    1982 Reagan Republican $746 $1,252 2.6% $1,137 $1,908 6.8% $3,228 $5,417 -1.4% 0.60
    1983 Reagan Republican $808 $1,294 3.4% $1,371 $2,195 15.0% $3,441 $5,510 1.7% 0.62
    1984 Reagan Republican $852 $1,300 0.4% $1,564 $2,386 8.7% $3,840 $5,858 6.3% 0.66
    1985 Reagan Republican $946 $1,396 7.4% $1,817 $2,680 12.3% $4,142 $6,108 4.3% 0.68
    1986 Reagan Republican $990 $1,426 2.1% $2,120 $3,052 13.9% $4,412 $6,352 4.0% 0.69
    1987 Reagan Republican $1,004 $1,406 -1.4% $2,345 $3,283 7.6% $4,647 $6,506 2.4% 0.71
    1988 Reagan Republican $1,065 $1,447 2.9% $2,601 $3,534 7.7% $5,009 $6,806 4.6% 0.74
    1989 Reagan Republican $1,144 $1,499 3.6% $2,867 $3,757 6.3% $5,401 $7,077 4.0% 0.76
    1990 Bush Republican $1,253 $1,590 6.1% $3,206 $4,067 8.3% $5,735 $7,277 2.8% 0.79
    1991 Bush Republican $1,324 $1,610 1.3% $3,598 $4,374 7.5% $5,935 $7,215 -0.8% 0.82
    1992 Bush Republican $1,382 $1,624 0.9% $4,001 $4,703 7.5% $6,240 $7,334 1.7% 0.85
    1993 Bush Republican $1,410 $1,615 -0.5% $4,351 $4,987 6.0% $6,576 $7,536 2.8% 0.87
    1994 Clinton Democratic $1,462 $1,642 1.7% $4,643 $5,216 4.6% $6,961 $7,820 3.8% 0.89
    1995 Clinton Democratic $1,516 $1,662 1.2% $4,920 $5,395 3.4% $7,326 $8,033 2.7% 0.91
    1996 Clinton Democratic $1,561 $1,673 0.7% $5,181 $5,554 3.0% $7,694 $8,248 2.7% 0.93
    1997 Clinton Democratic $1,601 $1,684 0.7% $5,369 $5,647 1.7% $8,182 $8,606 4.3% 0.95
    1998 Clinton Democratic $1,653 $1,721 2.2% $5,478 $5,704 1.0% $8,628 $8,985 4.4% 0.96
    1999 Clinton Democratic $1,702 $1,746 1.5% $5,605 $5,750 0.8% $9,125 $9,361 4.2% 0.97
    2000 Clinton Democratic $1,789 $1,789 2.5% $5,628 $5,628 -2.1% $9,710 $9,710 3.7% 1.00
    2001 Clinton Democratic $1,863 $1,821 1.8% $5,769 $5,638 0.2% $10,058 $9,829 1.2% 1.02
    2002 Bush Republican $2,011 $1,929 6.0% $6,198 $5,945 5.5% $10,377 $9,954 1.3% 1.04
    2003 Bush Republican $2,160 $2,018 4.6% $6,760 $6,316 6.2% $10,809 $10,099 1.4% 1.07
    2004 Bush Republican $2,293 $2,082 3.2% $7,354 $6,677 5.7% $11,500 $10,441 3.4% 1.10
    2005 Bush Republican $2,472 $2,165 4.0% $7,905 $6,923 3.7% $12,238 $10,717 2.6% 1.14
    2006 Bush Republican $2,655 $2,249 3.9% $8,451 $7,158 3.4% $13,016 $11,024 2.9% 1.18
    2007 Bush Republican $2,730 $2,263 0.6% $8,951 $7,419 3.6% $13,668 $11,329 2.8% 1.21
    2008* Bush Republican $2,931 $2,366 4.6% $9,654 $7,793 5.0% $14,312 $11,553 2.0% 1.24
    2009* Bush Republican $3,107 $2,452 3.6% $10,413 $8,218 5.5% $15,027 $11,859 2.6% 1.27
    2010* Obama Democrat $3,091 $2,392 -2.4% $10,954 $8,477 3.2% $15,792 $12,221 3.0% 1.29

    Inside this 30 years we’ve enjoyed some 22 years of GOP leadership that failed to slow federal spending while winning the crowds favor with lower taxes.

    I just checked , It’s closer to 14 trillion the 13 this morning.

    So 118559 from 137520 leave 1 Trillion 896 million gain under the current administration.

    Okay, who willing to pony up? ~ can I pass a hat around and count on your cooperation and support? Who willing to stand up and be counted in this great time of need? This interest is kicking our collective butts!

    I didn’t want these wars yet I’ll accepting the bill. ~ I didn’t want a lot of things that been thrust upon me and you. But we can address this together with some intent of resolve and purpose Or continue down the same old path.

    I’d had preferred many things, let the Iraqis have the government and leader they were willing to endure, you know? like us. Let the Afghans be much the same, They’ve got a culture problem, we can’t fix that.

    Bail-outs? I don’t care if it hair lips the devil, the first one was the biggest joke of all, ~ all that followed was just an insult to injury. I don’t care if the world economy collapsed or not. Sounds to me like it needed to.

    But that not what happen, not the way things played out. We have became engaged with salvage efforts. Salvaging failed systems and institutions that should have died and been buried where they lay.

    This notion of a Global Economy has became a bad marriage for many American. And like so many marriages that hit on hard times, one fighting to salvage and one is fighting to leave.

    We need to be responsible with our thoughts and considerations today more the ever before. This 13 Trillion is not going away! This leaves us to work and dig our way clear of it and everything needs to be on the table for review. ~ I mean everything! Just one hint of being disingenuous as Mich McConnell and John B has been over the last 2 years will result in permanent gridlock and God not going to save us. The Divine cares little about such matters.

    • Winnie

      Bob Wire, well said. I totally agree with you. Americans, band together and never mind being democrats asnd republicans (both correct spelling) and get out and fight for your country. Help to make it a People-strong government and not ruled by the big corporations. There are only a few who are taking you down and that is the few greedy americans. Vote in the people who are not given donations from the big businesses. AND STAND BEHIND HIM OR HER AS AMERICAN IS BEING TAKEN BACK. Thanks to those who are mature and who can band together and fight together to boot out the big businesses who are ruling and ruining your life!

  • Shaxov

    Yes, it’s hard to argue with the main statement: America is on the decline. Also it’s hard to argue with the fact that it’s really doesn’t matter what party has power: it was bad under latest Bush and it’s no better under Obama. So why is at? It’s really really hard to answer the main question: what is the cause and what is the consequence?

    May be politicians and their polices are not really important? if so – what is important? Why America is on decline (and possibly already passed the point of return)?

    Ideas have consequences. Big ideas have big consequences.
    What is the idea that driving America down the spiral?
    How to find that idea (and it’s implementation) and fight it with all we’ve got?
    This is very important question especially because there is still really no place on earth where this ‘idea’ didn’t take it’s toll. So there is no escape by migration out of America.

    What is the real reason for the decline? yes there is always more then one reason, but as usual there is one reason responsible for about 80% of the problem.

    The remedy I think is first to identify the core of the problem.
    When it’s identified – educate people. Here it comes the vicious circle: when those who are implementing that malicious idea also in charge of education – the problem can’t be solved without breaking the vicious circle. And when majority finally realizes that thing are going bad – it’s usually to late.

    This did happened before and it’s happening now.

  • Clay

    There is reason to believe the USA is in decline as a nation…NO Civilization of great power lasted more than 300 to 350 years…
    The Greek Empire fell after wars which sent their men away to conquer Italy…they instead were destroyed…
    So was ROME after many campaigns which drains away monies which should be spent at home..

    Wars drain away resources from the USA which should be spent on our own people .

    Look at CHINA they pretty much mind their own business and they are prospering.

    IF we as a NATION feel like helping other countries…THEN we should help them…with FOOD, MEDICAL, FARM EQUIPTMENT…
    If we feel led to bomb a country ..then BOMB them with food to eat…make them fat …so they wont want to…go to war…

    Look…we need to mind our own business and support others as we are able..through offering good things…NOT using bullets and bombs on others…

    If we spent the hundreds of billions on oil exploration and alternative energy inventions and minded our own business we would be futher ahead , less dependant and thousnads of lives would have been spared…

    LETS all begin minding our own business and help others with the basics…food…shelter clean water and farm equiptment…
    Thats a far more civilized way to help others..

    LASTLY…remember A NATION must have the fire within its own belly for change …it must come from within..IT must be the majority of its own peoples ideas…

    The Revolution of the USA began with huge discontent and a desire for freedom…

    There are too many people today who want someone else to pay….the price for their freedom…their medications, their support…

    We must…all become responsible and manage ourselves …our finances..our own minds…and not be dependant on some other countries resources…

    Lets pay off our debt..and be financially responsible…live peacefully and mind our own business and help others with food shelter clean water….and medical..and stay out of their business..

    • eddie47d

      We must learn and take the best knowledge that the world has to offer. The world has come to us for many things and they have learned. China has had great civilizations throughout history.They have also fallen into many civil wars and decline. Now they are back “on top”. We are now in decline but it can be short lived and we might even come out stronger.

    • Yvan

      Clay – You hit the nail right on. Had USA mind their own f….. business and take care of their own people you would be sitting not on top of the world but on top of the universe. Imagine all that money spent on wars instead of food, health and education to your own people . This is what happen to a country when a population goes asleep. Never let the greedy basters take control of the national purse. How can 2% of the people run a country to the gutters like this. Mind boggling.

    • coal miner


      You are absolutely right.

  • Patriot

    If Obama is proven not to be a US citizen; does all his actions get repealed? From appointments specifically the Supreme court and all the policies and bills that were pushed through, does anyone know what would happen?

    • Clay

      Iam from HAWAII..I have been inside the Dept Of Health Records office…if they had a green paper which showed “Live Birth” they have it…

      If Obama was born in Kapiolani Hospital or Queens Hospital it it does on my green Health Dept Paper of LIVE BIRTH…

      I believe he was born there and I have Seen many pictures assembled in RON JACOBS “OBAMA LAND PICTORIAL” magazine..

      Obama did go to school in HAWAII and also attended PUNAHOU High with his mini Afro…he did live at 1839 POKI STREET APTS and also in 1971 -79 Punahou circlr apts .
      Obama graudated in 1979 from Punahou High in Honolulu..I have pictures of him all through high school..including Obama playing basketball.

      Was he actually born in HAWAII…I believe so..and like so many kids of mixture in their blood.. ..its easy to melt into the fabric of a culture that has Filipinos, Hawaiians, Chinese , Japanese, Samoans, Koreans , Caucasians and many many more nationalities…

      • Kate8

        It’s entirely possible that all of that pictorial ‘evidence’ is fabricated. There are people who specialize in that.

        When else have they made such an effort to put a president’s childhood history in places for public consuption in order to ‘prove’ a point? Why not just show the records.

        He’s either a complete fake, or he’s being used to create more distrust of the government. Or both. And it’s certainly working.

        • Bob Wire

          Kate, it works if you allow it. ~ That is up to each and everyone on a personal level.

          And what that has to do with a 14 trillion dollar National debt is beyond me to know. I find it a distraction for the issues at hand. I don’t care if he was from Mars.

          We are in decline as a nation of people subjugates under Federal, State and Local governments while bias politics has us throwing spit balls and playing Nanny nanny Poo Poo games.

          There little need of having your sh1t together if you can’t lift it!

          The interest on 14 trillion dollars in taking us 6 months of production to pay! We are loosing controlling interest of our nation.

          This “issue” dwarfs Obama’s birth location or even his Presidency for Christ sakes.

          It will take both the American People and American Business Interest to dig out of this hole, if it ever happens at all.

          Of the two, which should we considered having the greatest interest and be willing to work the hardest? That’s the question I ask everyone.

          Bearing in mind the wealthy can live anywhere they wish.

          • Christin

            The Trillions of dollars of DEBT are an outrageous problem for Americans and America… and CONGRESS needs to STOP SPENDING NOW and CUT OUT government jobs paying more (by taxes) than private, …CUT OUT gov’t bureaucracies, …Eliminate THE unconstitutional FED which is privately owned foreign bankers controlling recessions, depressions, deflation, inflation and hyperinflation of our dollar, …eliminate the IRS and outrageous TAX CODES so normal people can ALL pay into the system at a much lower rate if need be (9% maybe less than what God asks), …Rid ourselves of CORRUPT UNIONs that are forcing higer wages & pensions and making our products less competitive, …UNDO MUCH business TAX & REGULATIONS that have sent our industries and companies (JOBS) abroad to make a profit redistributing wealth over there.
            YES, the trillion dollar deficets which will break us are a very important issue.

            BUT …As far a obama’s birth place is concerned if you think about it… it, too, is important and here is why.
            If obama is foreign born, have two communist parents, and an anti-colonialist foreign born father, gone to American college free as a foreign student, identified with communists & radicals growing up, is a Muslim or Liberation theologist (redistribution of wealth), has aliases not listed (Barry Soetoro) and many social security numbers, then all he does is a FRAUD.

            Where do BHObama’s loyalty lie, Bob? Is it in Kenya, Asia, America?
            What government type does BHO favor? Socialism, Communism, Facism, Capitlism, Anarchy, Monarchy?
            What people and culture does BHO favor? Foreigners, illegal aliens, Radical, Terrorists, OR American citizens? Baseball and Apple pie OR jihadist terrorism?
            What religion does he claim if any? Islam, Christianity, Liberation Theology, Athiest, Satanic devil worship?
            What World View does BHO have? Freedoms, Rights given by God, and Liberties in the Constitution OR Ruling Class Elitists of the NWO… death and destruction?

            You see Bob, if BHO is NOT for sovereign America, The Constitution, AND God he will never strive to help it and save it from the enemies who wish to collapse it. Instead HE will help those who wish to devalue the dollar(FED/soros/NWO/Progressives), redistribute America’s wealth, TAX and SPEND until we break, and disolve our Constitution of Freedoms.
            (Watch Glenn Beck on FOX at 4:00 about soros and puppet masters- T,W,TH.)

            BHO will fundamentally transform America into a failed nation without borders under the leadership of the UN and International Law. Then trillion dollar deficets and 14 trillion dollar debt ceiling won’t mean a thing when you are hungry, homeless and countyless.

            God Bless all.

          • Bob Wire

            Thanks for your thoughtful response Christin ,
            I was considering posting all the legislation passed by the 111th Congress, but I found it way too massive to consider.

            If BHO is truly anti-American, it is not reflected in the legislation that has pass the Congress. (the efforts of his work)

            Put up “legislation passed by 111 congress” and muse over it at your leisure. There will be many things there to consider and it’s a safe bet you won’t approve of them all, much like the Senate. But none will reflect the views you “suspect” BHO of holding. Leaving us to consider if a pig had wings there is a remote possibility it could fly or perhaps may had flown at one time and just maybe we should construct a cover over it’s sty to keep him contained and from becoming airborne.

          • Angel Wannabe

            Bob Wire, Legislation thats up for view of the public, and the final edit behind closed doors, is two entirely different ends!_-Media controls what we see, read and hear. Thats why a lot of people listen to FOX. Its a different take.

      • Patriot

        The American people not only deserve to have answers to these
        questions, they must have answers. It makes the debate over Obama’s
        citizenship a rather short and simple one.
        Q: Did he travel to Pakistan in 1981, at age 20?
        A : Yes, by his own admission.
        Q: What passport did he travel under?
        A: There are only three possibilities.
        1) He traveled with a U.S… Passport,
        2) He traveled with a British passport, or
        3) He traveled with an Indonesia passport.
        Q: Is it possible that Obama traveled with a U.S. Passport in 1981?
        A: No. It is not possible. Pakistan was on the U.S… State
        Department’s “no travel” list in 1981.
        Conclusion: When Obama went to Pakistan in 1981 he was traveling
        either with a British passport or an Indonesian passport.
        If he were traveling with a British passport that would provide
        proof that he was born in Kenya on August 4, 1961, not in Hawaii as he
        claims. And if he were traveling with an Indonesian passport that would tend
        to prove that he relinquished whatever previous citizenship he held,
        British or American, prior to being adopted by his Indonesian step-father in
        Whatever the truth of the matter, the American people need to know
        how he managed to become a “natural born” American citizen between 1981 and
        Given the destructive nature of his plans for America, as
        illustrated by his speech before Congress and the disastrous spending plan
        he has presented to Congress, the sooner we learn the truth of all this, the
        If you Don’t care that Your President is not a natural born Citizen
        and in Violation of the Constitution, then Delete this, and then lower your
        American Flag to half-staff, because the U.S. Constitution is already on
        life-support, and won’t survive much longer.
        If you do care then Forward this to as many patriotic Americans as
        you can, because our country is being looted and ransacked!

        • Randy G

          Someone I know said they saw excerts of film clips of Obama & of his wife stating he was born in Kenya. If a person could find them, they might expose the plot.

          • Angel Wannabe

            randy __


            if link doesnt work__ type in Obama on HIV testing at youtube

          • Karolyn

            It’s an obviously doctored video.

          • Angel Wannabe

            karolyn, Lady, you’ll say anything to be right, wont’cha?__

          • vicki

            Karolyn: I just watched that video. There is no evidence that it was doctored. Why do you think it was?

          • JeffH

            If the video was doctored, they sure did an Oscar Winning job. The only break in MO’s speach was the bad habit of pausing with an “UH” each time she said a sentance. Guess MO doesn’t do well without a teleprompter either.

          • Bob Wire

            I was born a Human Being, a citizen of earth and I have always felt I belonged wherever I was at and I’ve been all over the world. Perhaps it was my father influence, as he was the one that taught me to not fear and control “my space” from the age of 4. He wasn’t a kind loving father but a mean,insecure wimp that didn’t want me to be one, only later do I see this. For whatever reason, it’s got me this far and I haven’t drawn a payroll check since 78. That’s 32 years living on wit and refusing to fear.

            It is true, some take acceptation to my views and are very territorial for many various reason. My Irish white skin and blue eyes has created controversy,problems and sometimes joyous excitement in my travels, from fiesta’s to knife fight, running gun battles, detention, delays, roust, ignore due process, denied access to the most simplest civility, denied personal property, to total strangers taking me into their homes and hiding me safe from harm until things cools down.

            The international reclaim business has an exciting edge to it.

            It has always been men, rarely women that behave in such fashion ~ rednecks exist the world over and are not an exclusive of Texas or Tennessee.

            I am not a Hobbit, content in the comfort and safety of the Shire among like people with like minds, a doing the same thing day in and day out.

            This world was explored by people like myself. People that wanted to go and do and see, there is no one that tells us we can’t if we wish too strong enough and willing to endure all the hardships we face along the way.

            You are only given one life, live it! Wear out or Rust out

            As far as I’m concerned, it’s what lies between the ears and in ones heart that I might wish to judge and this is shown in deeds and rarely sweet words alone.

            I don’t give a damn if Obama was hatched in Timbuktu, it be a sight better then Yuma Arizona. Have you ever been there?

            Obama is not a perfect man by a long shot ~ There is no such man alive today. And if there ever was, he darn sure wouldn’t want to be a President. He’d be smart enough to not want such an awful, powerful, pressure job.

            Feel grateful you didn’t get McCain and move on, we’ve got serious work to address.

          • Karolyn

            Puhleeze. You think that somebody can’t doctor a video so that it seems intact? It sure appeared doctored to me. It’s ridiculous. Why on earth, even if it were true, would they say such things?

        • Kate8

          Well said, patriot.

      • JC

        Clay I don’t believe it for a minute. If you want to know the truth in any situation, follow the money. In this case the only relevant money is being used to hide everything about him by way of injunctions. Why?

        And I certificate of Live Birth is not an American Birth Certificate.
        Tourists who happen to have a child in Hawaii can get one so they can prove the child is theirs when they get home.

        I’m sorry but your belief is not compelling to me.

  • Michael G

    Good comments all but I think not one of you had hit the nail on the head, the one true cause without recognition of which all other efforts are doomed.

    I speak of “character” — personal and collective national character.

    I speak of the Scout Law: trustworthy, loyal, helpful, courteous, friendly, kind, obedient, cheerful, thrifty, brave, clean, reverent (if I remember it right).

    When I was a child (and JFK was President), nearly everyone had at least some of these virtues. Neighbors helped regulate children’s behavior and if my neighbor corrected my behavior my father thanked my neighbor, today it is instant lawsuit.

    Now, look around. How many people of the left or right persuasions have these virtues? If not, how are you EVER going to improve education, productivity, banking, savings, and so on?

    I don’t think we need to teach “creationism” in schools; that’s not helpful. What *would* be helpful is teaching virtue — but here we have stepped on a multicultural landmine — WHOSE virtues?

    Yes, I think this nation is doomed, but so are the other rising powers as they cast off their own heritage of virtue. I believe that all nations that abandon their religious and cultural heritage (China under Chairman Mao) experience an economic and social collapse. You may be thinking, “But what about Europe? Hardly anyone goes to church and they haven’t collapsed!” Yes, ladies and gentlemen, they collapsed twice — spectacularly — in the past century. Furthermore, while the citizens seldom “go to church” they have incorporated those virtues into their fabric of life — except for London, Amsterdam and Berlin as examples of ungrounded centers of anything-goes.

    • Bob Wire

      Now if we could just get moral fiber packaged in a box of breakfast cereal.

      It’s the family unit that suffers. The Big City has never been seen as a Mecca of Reverence and Righteousness from day of Babylon to this day.

      This will not change.

      • http://none Mike

        Bob, Good point.The problem I see is this. When Bablon enters goverment the whole country becomes Babalon not just the city.That we are caught in a crux I dont doubt. But there are answers out there.We need to elect people not parties. I have said a few times here lately that a party platform helps hide the indiviguals true motives. Untill we finally quit looking at either party as a savior for our rights and look to ourselves this isnt going to change. Mike L.

  • Clay

    Where did two of my posts go?
    Someone must have thought I was PRO OBAMA..
    Very interesting site…here…Hmmmm

    P/S I am NOT PRO OBAMA but Iam defintely ANTI small mindedness

    • Karolyn

      Well, Clay, you sure find a lot of that here!

  • Clay

    Barbara Nelson remembers the day Obama was born in Kapiolani Hospital.
    Read the article in Obamas hawaiia Birth Certificate and its under

    Also in the Hawaii-Star Bullentin and Honolulu Advertiser published a son was born to Mr and MRS Barrack H. Osama of 6085 Kalanianaole Hwy.

    This country is about Freedom.. and to doesnt matter so much as sho is the PRESIDENT as what I do with my life and how I guide myself…making my goals and plans…

    If Obama is not born in HAWAII what?
    If OBAMA is an ALIEN …so what?

    I can do hundreds of things to change my life..
    We have still the power to control our lives by taking control of what we can do..instead of blaming or looking for a handout..

    Brother can you spare a few hundred thousand?

    • vicki

      The reason we care is because we support the Constitution as the supreme law of this land (USA). One of the VERY FEW requirements the Constitution places on whom we may elect to represent us is that the President shall be a natural born citizen.

      Now the important thing is to understand WHY. The reason is simple. Our forefathers believed that the President needed to have a natural allegiance to THIS country. That the President needed to grow up HERE and be well versed in AMERICAN culture and values. They rightly feared that a foreigner would not have AMERICAN best interests as his own.

      Obama even if born physically in Hawaii is proof of their concern. His policies which are destructive to the Constitution and to American culture of excellence is exactly why our forefathers did not want someone of another culture to wield the power of the Presidency of the United States of America.

      The fact that he is aided and abetted by so many who call themselves Democrat and by so many that call themselves Republican just gives support to the conclusions of many here that they are all puppets of some other group. Rothchild, Fed Reserve, Soros, whatever.

  • Bob Wire

    No Clay, you mis-posted them somewhere.

    Bob Livingston’s Forum site has proven to be “few hold barred” ZONE and you will be endured, spat on and made fun of and agreed with, whatever your message.

    They don’t kill the messenger here but if you are thin skinned it’s going to hurt.

    • libertytrain

      bob – well said.

  • http://com i41

    The biggest problem to our cause our decline is the growth of parasitic smucks that produce nothing, create nothing. They cost the citizens by dreaming up b–l s–t regulations, all are multi layered f–k offs in the government redundantcy apperatus. The non stop “self and enviorment” improvement dreamed up theoried crap all taxpayer funded programs. Since idoits think government employees arte adding to the Treasury, it is just slowing the money waste, it is still a constant draw on the taxpayers. America could have money coming in t the Treasury from our crude sales to the countries like Japan, China, or any other country that imports oil. We import oil because of the 60′s drugheads and pukes that want to cripple the USA. The biggest impedemnets are the multi airy fairy followers of the National Marxist Communist Democrat Union Party. How much money was and still being wasted on global warming crap, or letting the UN try to control the USA,y regulations and USA paying the freight for this socialist moron group. The idea of having to get approval from the dictators of 5rd world countries, is so past common sense. For decades the NMCDUP has always supported this phony group of book trained idoits. To even try and create a business venture, permits and hearings will waste several thousand dollars. Just to erect a building, between the multi boards you need to meet with and get permits and liciences. To put some up on your own land, you will spend between 25,000- $100,000 with out ever creating a item. Between city, county, state, and federal jackasses we have become 1930-1980 India with non stop paper shufflers. When Tiawan was growing leaps and bounds, to start a business you went to a state official, paid 10 bucks, gave your name,address and company name, and what you would plan to make! You were off and running, in India it was non stop paer signing and on the average of a year wait, for all offical signatures, another year was wasted for hearing for approvement of different boards. In 3 years you might get to start, but a odd ball unanswered question could cause you to repeat the whole process. This was from a magazine questioning why Tiawan was such as power house job creater and was growing, compared to India sluggish no growth economy. Sounds like our overregulated economy job creaters. If the NMCDUP envior retards were told to go sretch a rope, we wouldn’t be in debt to China, and would be self suffienct for own energy, and let the artsy fartsy fairy windmill power dreams blow away.

  • Earl, QUEENS, NY

    “…..- the deeply conservative President Richard Nixon…..”????? What are many of you people smoking or drinking today?? While Nixon was better than the Kenyan Marxist we now have as POTUS, I don’t believe he was conservative – at least not on domestic issues. It was on his watch that the EPA was created, and we know what a monster and detriment that’s been. The EPA should be eliminated – yesterday or sooner!! Of course BHO has proven in less than 2 years that he’s the worst president we’ve ever had. But FDR, LBJ and Jimmy Carter aren’t far behind the BHO superlative. FDR’s New Deal was a costly total failure, which only prolonged the Great Depression. Social Security is a worse Ponzi scheme than Bernie Madoff. Lyndon Birdbrain Johnson expanded FDR’s follies with Medicare and the Great Society. And some people credit Jimmy Carter with giving us more manageable inflation??!! LOL!! It was during the Carter years when we saw the highest inflation and interest rates of my lifetime. Carter’s policies led to the worst recession and highest unemployment rates between the Great Depression and the current Obama recession!! Seeing what a disaster carter was, it was after 1976 that I stopped voting for the democrap party!!….In plain languageI can’t believe what I’m reading here today!!

  • http://? Mike M. D

    Could you help me visulise, when finally America is forclosed on, her Military still tickin…. and, eviction day…. what would that look like, excuse my narrow way of looking at this

    • vicki

      That is why they want our guns. They don’t want to have to worry about anyone except the few in the Military.

  • Carlucci

    I remember trying to buy a car when Jimma Carter was prez. Because the interest rates were at double digits, I had to buy a tiny car that I really didn’t like, but that’s all I could afford. Let’s face it, the man could screw up a wet dream. He is a communist. He goes all over the world allegedly on “humanitarian and peacekeeping missions” spewing hatred for America. I think we should do what India did to the Muslims in the 1950s. Kick out all of the commies and el destructoes in the fedguv and send them packing to some remote country where they can all control each other, and leave the American people alone. Jimma Carter and Obummer can lead the pack.

    • Karolyn

      They are just as American as you. Just because you don’t agree with them doesn’t make them any less American. And Jimmy Carter has done a great deal for the poor. What have you done?

  • BobbyB

    You know, maybe it was a good thing that interest rates were high under Carter. It insured that when someone bought something, they could afford it. Look what happened with GWBs “Ownership Society”. Banks could not make enough loans to satisfy the demand for CDOs and other crazy investment scams. We are now paying for that and that’s one of the biggest drains on our economy.
    Our decline mirrors Rome in many ways but one of the most glaring is we now have virtually no middle class. We have the working poor and the mega rich. Sorry to tell those that are on the “wealth redistribution” band wagon, but the “wealth distribution” has already been done. Our wealth (by that I mean those of us who worked our asses of) has been redistributed to the top 1%.
    It still shocks me that so many think TARP was started by Obama. TARP was GWBS final F#@$ you to the American people in the form of Hank Paulson demanding 800 BILLION and no questions asked. That in itself should have told even the dimmest among us that something was up. Just like the Romans though, we were so engrossed with the “Entertainment” (They had chariot races, we have NASCAR) that we just weren’t paying attention. WE THE PEOPLE have been robbed blind and it hasn’t been by the poor. Obamas just another water bearer for those who would like nothing more that to see all of us either gone or working for nothing. Thta will soon be a reality now that Republicans have control of the “House of Commons”! Buy canned goods!

  • eddie47d

    Just like now massive wealth was in the hands of a few in the early 1950′s and earlier. Maybe there is a back to the future? One big difference is that the wealthy were taxed at a much higher rate. After WWII and during the Korean War how did this country manage to produce so many jobs? Tax rates were high and millions were returning from the wars. America was a nation of eager worker and jobs were popping up like crazy.They were good union jobs too!Veterans did darn good in finding work and moving on with their lives. The middle class was born and the wealthy actually had to share their wealth in order for this nation to prosper.Now we have Corporates who make billions,have a much lower tax rate yet ship jobs overseas and ignore the need for our workers. Were expected to look up to this callous greed and call it good.We are expected to demonize unions even though they were the backbone of the middle class. The more you bash unions the faster the middle class disappears.The more you praise the wealthy like they deserve everything they got;the faster they take an uneven share and abuse their positions. They just build bigger castles and the American workers drown in their moats.

    • vicki

      Eddie47d writes:
      “the wealthy were taxed at a much higher rate.”

      The wealthy were also in Congress. They conveniently put in lots of loopholes (Deductions) they and other wealthy people could use to avoid
      paying 70+% of their income to the treasury (or fed reserve :) )

      If you happen to like math you should play around with the marginal tax rate numbers and the deductions.

      When I did that (for an econ class I think) I noticed an interesting gap
      starting at about $20,000 where you would pay a LOT more actual % of your income. Then around $70,000 big deductions kicked in and your actual % dropped to a quite reasonable (to me at the time) ~10% or less.

      You will notice that the numbers neatly form a wall between the middle income and the so called rich.

      Sorry I didn’t keep the info cause I wasn’t planning on being an economist. My bad.

  • coal miner
  • Anti Government

    Wow, I agree that it is as economist say: “it is either guns or butter”. I think there is a lot of support for getting out of these wars so why are we not putting pressure on our congressmen? What happened to the anti-war movement that was “dogging” Pres. W Bush? These wars are not sustainable and contribute nothing to our economy.

    I am an employer and I can tell you that my hiring decisions are driven by only one thing: Sales! Tax breaks are nice but do nothing for me if I don’t have sales! We need to get the private sector going.

    The statement that Pres. Ronald Reagan pulled this country out of inflation and stagflation with “Supply Side Economics” is wrong. Pres. Reagan was a military Keynesian. He used military spending to pull the economy out of the toilet. This did not make Pres. Reagan a socialist or a communist, it makes him an American. All this hate for anything socialist is disturbing and few would want to live in a pure Capitalistic Country.

    America has done a good job destroying the middle class. People will drive miles to save a dime instead of spending it at our neighbors store. Greed has become our battle cry and it will be our downfall!

    • vicki

      Anti Government writes:
      “What happened to the anti-war movement that was “dogging” Pres. W Bush?”

      It became Obama’s war. And they are actually anti Republican so of course they stopped complaining.

      • Bob Wire

        NO ! we are still here, and only anti-GOP since Reagan (and I worked long and hard to help him get elected if it might matter to you)

        Don’t confuse the two separate issues for mere convenience of understanding.

      • Bob Wire

        and we stopped complaining when a date was set to pull out.

        when we knew how long (5 years) it took to leave Nam after deciding to do so.

        when the economy and unemployment needs to rise to accommodate returning troops.

        All three good reason why you hear less complaining about the war.

  • Anthony

    Anti-Government … is one lost soul… period

    Then, there’s this —
    “Look what happened with GWBs “Ownership Society”. Banks could not make enough loans to satisfy the demand for CDOs and other crazy investment scams. We are now paying for that and that’s one of the biggest drains on our economy.”

    Another one still suckin hind-tit to the Banksters and the MSM propaganda….. The part not being saluted was that under ol’ GW, there was still a DEM congress with Tommy Daschle (jewish kraut name?) and they were picking up the pieces to a failling economy left to them by Bill Clinton…

    Just to be clear here … CLINTON is who brought us the Ownership Society … NOT george bush II. It was Clinton who re-wrote the Mission Statement for Fannie & Freddie.. and re-did the basic foundation for AIG… another cash cow for the carpetbaggers within the DEM party.

    So much for misdirection … from the Lefties….

    NOW – as for the Article itself, BULL HOCKEY, MY FRIENDS.. BULL HOCKEY!

    I haven’t read such bull$hit laden B$ since I stopped by to about 5 years ago… This Article is loaded with half-truths and sophistry, all over the place.

    SC – correct me, here … DO YOU SEE any reference whatsoever mentioning who it is that controls our currency ? Is there ANY notice given to obvious FACT of FRACTIONAL BANKING, any where in this diatribe … which recommends that we all just give up and go home and do nothing….??? Anything even remotely closely related to how our so-called Money Paradigm economy has been constructed over the last 100 years….???? Do you….

    WHAT A CROCK… you need a good back-alley whuppin’…

    You, are a quitter….

    The whole article is a J*O*K*E …. they call such stuff … CRAP-OLA!

  • Vigilant

    Mr. Myers,

    With all due respect, I think you’re trying to pass off some notions without looking at historical fact.

    For example:

    “Some think the nation took a turn for the worse with President Franklin Delano Roosevelt. I disagree. What came after FDR was total victory over Hitler and Tōjō as well as immense new wealth.”

    History in fact shows, and a consensus of economists agree, that FDR’s big government socialistic policies both lengthened and deepened the Great Depression. The return of American prosperity was clearly the result of WWII, NOT the policies of FDR.

    Also, “From the ashes of World War II the United States was the only major power that became richer rather than poorer.”

    I think the Japanese and the Germans would argue with you about that.

    I would also take issue with you regarding your description of Richard Nixon as “deeply conservative.” Conservative presidents don’t raise social spending to record levels, nor do they impose wage & price controls as Nixon did.

    Honestly, your equation of the US to an imperial empire is distasteful. While there’s no doubt we are in decline, it’s not because we are saddled with the administration of conquered foreign lands, and your thinking seems to coincide with the views held by the left wing.

    Lastly, it is not the military spending which has crippled us, it is the plethora of ever-widening social dependencies created by the nanny state that will do us in.

    I choose to hope that we can pull out of this dire situation through something none of the great nations of history had at their command: the proud, motivated and ingenious population that calls itself “American.” I think you’ve thrown in the towel before the fat lady has even begun her song.

    • Bob Wire

      “I would also take issue with you regarding your description of Richard Nixon as “deeply conservative.” by today’s standards for sure. I see Nixon as being mid right of center at the time. Today center right at best.

      I like Nixon and have taken a lot of heat for saying so over the years. He was a flawed man that accomplished much for the betterment of the nation. Nixon and his tenure reminds me of an old Humphrey Bogart Navy movie, the crew call Captain Yellow Stain. I’ll pull it up.

      “Lieutenant Commander Philip Francis Queeg, USN, is a fictional character in Herman Wouk’s 1951 novel The Caine Mutiny. He is also a character in the identically titled 1954 film adaptation of the novel and in The Caine Mutiny Court Martial, the Broadway theatre adaptation of the novel that opened in the same year as the film.”

      We are all flawed at some point if we attack life and refuse to hide.

  • Void1972

    We have all been had! Everything is a lie. Fox, ABC, NBC, CNBC, MSN, Disney, and all other media giants are all owned by the same people. We get the information that they want us to know from different sorces, and different talking heads, but in the end it’s all about keeping us divided.
    The only way to survive now is by boycotting all of the above.

    • Bob Wire

      i already have , since July anyway ! I hate people busting into my home, selling soap, erectile dysfunctional products, insurance and their spin on current events.

      I do miss the Capital One Nordic Barbarians though! That was my one true belly laugh, I dearly miss.

      • Vigilant


        How about the GEICO “former Marine drill sergeant” psychiatrist? That’s my favorite.

        • Al

          GEICO “former Marine drill sergeant” psychiatrist?

          I like that one too. You see, Geico have to come up with great commercials in order to make up for their lies and frauds.
          I know, I was a victim.

    • Another Voice

      This is the best post I have read on these forums yet. Congratulations! I intend to do just that.

  • Another Voice

    It’s interesting that the conservatives are finally calling America’s involvement in the Middle East as a ‘losing war’ – now that a Democrat is in the White House.

    True, America is in a decline, but maybe this is not so bad. If we would stop trying to rule the world by military and economic bullying, we might just have some resources to take care of our own needs. What good is is to have 700 some-odd military installations around the world when our infrastructure is crumbling around us and millions are out of work?

  • Anti Government

    I take issue that it is some of you do not admit that it is the military spending that is causing the majority of our economic problems. That coupled with a unprecedented massive tax cut in the middle of the wars has caused chaos. There are estimates that the wars have cost us $1-3 trillion. This cost includes the externality cost of Vet health care and aid to these puppet governments. After watching Pres. George W. on the interview circuit I sure am glade he is no longer our president.

  • hundabuxt

    Does anyone recall Nixon’s conversation with David Frost? Shocking example of a man who actually thought he(the president)was above the law. Nixon campaigned on among other promises, to get us out of Viet Nam and took years to do so, during which several thousand Americans died and were wounded……for nothing.
    Our country is in serious trouble and it appears the fox is in the chicken coop. Our government is printing money at a rate unprecidented and there’s a nut on the order of Nero, in charge of the printing presses. Either we get control over the federal government spending or it will happen by default both figuratively and and literally. The federal government is incompetent and grossly inefficient. Smaller government means smaller impact like changing from a vehicle that gets 2 miles per gallon to one that gets 30. Right now they spend money like its free and only the immensity of our economy keeps the bottom from falling out but it will soon fall by the shear weight of the problem. I don’t know if this is by design or due to pure incompetence. I suspect the former and it will likely happen virtually overnight. We live in scary times people. The frog is swimming in the slowly warming pan of water and the water is near boiling.

  • jerry b b

    Flashman i think you need to stop flashing every one and pull your pants up be fore obummer 0r one of his cohearts get you preganent and we will have another baby to put on wellfare,there is some other people that is spouting progressive,liberal goobley goop that need to take acourse on the U.S.constution.It doesn’t say the government will take care of the people other than providing security so that they can go about their busines of making a living, these people that are voting for these politicans that are promising these haND OUTS ARE JUST AS WRONG AS THE PO[ITICANS THAT ARE PROMISING THEM. If these people want to live under a sociALIST government then they are free to go to a country that has one. this idea of an exspanding econ. is for the birds it was propigated by the federal reserve and it and federal reserve needs to be changed. You can’t have a free market if some one is controling it for their own good.I know a lot of people want agree with that but if you are in the busines of loaning money you cant loan to some one that you know can’y pay it back. So you would have to adjust your interest rates to what the people could pay and not what yhe governnt would help them pay because the government would have to use the tax payers mpney to do it.they have to hire more people to run the program andmake it more expensive for the tax payers. To me this wrong this is a form of stealing you are robing peter to pay paul and when peter runs out the shit hits the fan this is what is haooening bow to our country we have to stop this if we want any thing left to call our country.

  • eddie47d

    Vigalante; On your repeated sick comment equating progressives (socialists) to nazi’s. You are one weird fellow! Since you brag about America being a Republic,which it is ;then you must align yourself with the Peoples REPUBLIC of China.How about The REPUBLIC of Afghanistan,Albania,Algeria,Angola,Argentina,Armenia,Azerbaijan. Pick one out and there are plenty more we can tie you into!Since that seems to be you’re point.

  • Anti Government

    Jerry, it is simple what the government is doing. They are going to inflate the nation out of debt. They will pay for yesterdays debt with cheaper tomorrow money. This will work and we all will pay for these misdeeds. This is why we need a responsible ruling class in Washington. The amount we have to pay is staggering and we would be better to raise taxes than to inflate the money supply.

  • Theology Professor

    ALWAYS “follow the money.” The Zionists who control our banks,
    media, insurance, brokerages and bankroll all major Republitard
    candidates, are always going to get their way, and they have
    the Republitard party to do their bidding under the guise of
    “freedom.” Don’t want Obamacare? Then take it away from all our
    elected leaders who have it, cost free, and we don’t. Hate the stimulis money? Fine, give it to the Jew bankers, again, so they
    can bankroll the corportions who export the jobs from Americans.
    Hate “activist judges?” Fine, hate the republican appointed
    Supreme Court members who voted that corporations trump Individual
    rights…they do the bidding of the wealthy, not for you and me.
    Hate “separation of church and state?” Fine. Just wait until Hispanic Catholics control this country, multiplying like roaches on welfare, and you will soon be praying to the Virgin of Guadalupe in
    the public schools; after all, you claimed the right to have prayer
    in the public schools, and now someone else will be calling the shots in the name of “majority rule.” Beware who you make your enemy today, like gays, because you may need those rights for your children or grandchildren, nieces or nephews. Be careful who you step on, and who you demonize today. Someday, you may have to join the gay community in demanding your right back when the corporations own
    and control everything and we are all low cost slaves to the wealthy, just like in the 1930′s when there was no middle class. You want
    “second amendment remedies?” Start with the Jew bankers who just stole 300 BILLION dollars of our children’s future, with the help
    of Republitard policies. Think about it.

  • Hugh


  • Al

    You know there’s no such thing as “fair tax” secondly you can’t get rid of IRS before you get rid of its creator, the Federal Reserve System.
    By the way, FRS is the catalyst that led to what we are facing today. In short, when the international elite banksters created the FRS in Georgia it was like “asking the fox to build the hen house then install the security system”. Congress and FRS created a “debt by design” that never meant to be paid off.


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