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An Unholy Union

December 13, 2012 by  

An Unholy Union

During the course of the pitched battle Tuesday between union thugs and the people of Michigan, the Democratic Party, which usually pretends its union storm troopers are no more prone to violence than my Labrador retriever, took an unusual step by actually tweeting its endorsement of the union thugs’ physical tactics: “There will be blood.” The tweet, which was deleted far too late for the blogosphere to miss it, represented a none-too-subtle statement of support as the unions — notably the International Brotherhood of Electrical Workers — tried to undo Michigan’s decision to join 23 other States in declaring right-to-work conditions.

Michigan has struggled mightily in recent years. Thanks to endless Democratic hegemony and the death-grip unions have used to choke the life out of former economic cornerstones like the automotive industry — not to mention the usual suffocation created by almost unbelievable corruption in places like the dying hulk of Detroit — Michiganders face 9.1 percent unemployment. Thus did the State Legislature push to open the labor pool to people unwilling to pay a fee to some union crime syndicate for the right to work. And thus did the unions respond by unleashing the kind of violence usually seen only in the Detroit mayor’s office and the late, unlamented “Occupy” movement.


Perhaps bolstered by the Democrats’ tweets of endorsement, the unions went on an even more mindless than usual rampage throughout the day, attacking a FOX News contributor on camera and trampling a conservative group’s tent while the conservative group was still inside. And with the Democratic Party of Michigan’s call to arms still echoing, Barack Obama mouthpiece Jay Carney said about its incitement: “I’m not sure (the offending words) mean what someone interprets them to mean.”  Jay Carney is neither the Merriam nor the Webster of the modern age, but it’s tough to imagine “there will be blood” is open to all that much interpretation. In essence, Carney’s dismissal of the unions’ tactics is Obama weighing in on the chaos by hiding in the closet.

And yet “there will be blood.” The tweet was deleted hastily; I’m guessing after party functionaries realized they could be held liable should their union thug brethren start sending their enemies to that great New Jersey Turnpike rest stop in the sky. And the media certainly didn’t fall all over themselves to squawk in outrage over the overt threat of politically motivated violence — perhaps because they were waiting for instructions from their Democratic masters on how to spin and/or ignore it. Nonetheless, the message was clear: The people of Michigan want to pursue work without the added nightmare of required union involvement, and the Democrats and the union thugs will draw blood — or worse — to stop them.

The battle between the people of Michigan and the Democratic Party ought to serve as a reminder — and not just of the danger of allowing too many union members to congregate without responsible supervision. Obama’s re-election despite scandals like Operation Fast and Furious and Benghazi, Libya, has given the Democrats the impression that minor details like the rule of law and common decency no longer apply. In turn, they’ve green-lit an all-out assault on everyone who stands up to them. In Michigan, the unions not only got physical with the people they perceive to be enemies, but the teachers’ unions walked out on the kids to back their fellow Big Labor brute squad members.

The war between the unions and the people of Michigan calls to mind the similar battles fought in Indiana earlier in 2012 and in Wisconsin last year. More importantly, it reveals that the Democrats’ reliance on lies, cover-ups and corporate media excuse-making and demagoguery may be replaced by outright violence. Should that be the case — and the union thugs’ behavior certainly indicates it is — then life in the good ol’ U.S. of A. is about to get a lot more interesting.

–Ben Crystal

Ben Crystal

is a 1993 graduate of Davidson College and has burned the better part of the last two decades getting over the damage done by modern-day higher education. He now lives in Savannah, Ga., where he has hosted an award-winning radio talk show and been featured as a political analyst for television. Currently a principal at Saltymoss Productions—a media company specializing in concept television and campaign production, speechwriting and media strategy—Ben has written numerous articles on the subjects of municipal authoritarianism, the economic fallacy of sin taxes and analyses of congressional abuses of power.

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  • Dennis48e

    Spot on Ben.

    • Vigilant

      The labor unions and their supporters in the Democratic Party loathe to hear (or have you hear) that right to work states have the lowest unemployment rates. Nine of the top ten high employment states are right to work states. Washington is the sole exception, and that’s because there’s no personal or corporate income tax.

      The argument for unions is self-contradictory in several areas.

      First, the progressives want you to think that they support the working man/woman. If this were truly so, would they not be in favor of EXPANDING the work force instead of freezing out and limiting the size of the labor pool?

      Secondly, if wealth redistribution is their aim, would they not be supportive of making more jobs available by reducing the costs to industry in maintaining their artificially high wages and benefits? Apparently not. Instead of workers’ rights, it’s about “I’ve got mine, and I won’t sacrifice even a little bit so you can have yours.”

      “Fairness” is another choice word bandied about, a word that has no discrete definition for the progressive but which changes meaning at their will. They see no lack of fairness in forced collection of union dues from a Conservative worker to support distinctly non-Conservative political positions.

      Progressives apparently see no contradiction in suspending their peace/love/nonviolence/diplomacy/non-confrontation stance in favor of the brutal tactics used by unions. Michigan is a replay of Wisconsin, but with more violence and brutality.

      Lastly, the hypocrisy of the left becomes evident when you look at their stances on freedom of choice. “Choice” is the mainstay of their argument when it comes to abortion, but it ends there. Ask a progressive if parents should have free choice in which school their youngsters go to, or if a laborer should be able to decide whether or not to join a union, and they’ll inevitably give you the “yeah, but…” argument, which is no argument at all.

      • eddie47d

        Vigilantante like Ben head straight for the violent rhetoric (thugs and brutality). Not one word about Corporate “thugs”. You know the ones who own the companies and take in multi million dollar salaries. In the case of Michigan they are the ones whose income,bonuses and golden parachutes put a business out of business. Workers only ask for a decent wage and fair working conditions and the States Representatives coyly sneak in and take a few more rights away from them. Ben didn’t mention that Corporates buy off politicians all the time and apparently the fix was in supporting those donors. Gotta love these lopsided and dishonest articles which leaves so much out! Fair and truthful about both sides? Never gonna happen from the author. Companies rise and fail for a variety of reasons and quite often they are top heavy. The more there is at the top the higher the wages, the bigger the yearly bonuses and the larger pension plans. Its the CEOs who controls the costs and in the case of the auto industry they control what gets made. The workers, union and non union only built what management tells them to and have no say in in what goes to market. The auto industry CEOs had their workers build cars that were not competitive The consumers thus bought Japanese models back in the 80-90′s so “Detroit” shot itself in the foot and the blame belongs on management. Those same CEOs refused for years to produce high mileage cars and only gas guzzling models. Thus once again the consumers bailed on them and went to more efficient models from Korea and Japan. Those were management decisions not union workers decisions that tanked these companies. Thus it was over bloated and poor management skills that wrecked these companies all the while taking in all those Corporate perks. The American auto industry is now turning around and building more fuel efficient cars that are more durable yet its too late to save Detroit from those terrible Corporate decisions years earlier.

      • Vigilant

        “Vigilantante [?] like Ben head straight for the violent rhetoric (thugs and brutality). Not one word about Corporate ‘thugs’”.

        Violent rhetoric hurts no one. True physical violence and thuggery injures and maims. Are you going to deny that’s going on in Michigan? I didn’t just call it like I see it, I called it as it is.

        “You know the ones who own the companies and take in multi million dollar salaries. In the case of Michigan they are the ones whose income, bonuses and golden parachutes put a business out of business.”

        Care to cite ONE instance where the income of CEOs put a company out of business? Such a short memory. It was the unfunded pension liabilities of the workers that bankrupted GM, NOT the salaries of the CEOs.

        “Workers only ask for a decent wage and fair working conditions and the States Representatives coyly sneak in and take a few more rights away from them.”

        Workers asked and are receiving decent wages and working conditions. This is 2012, not 1930 eddie. You might want to expand on your comment to detail just what “right” has been taken away from the unions. The freedom of choice has been provided to laborers, but the unions have lost NOTHING but the ability to coerce payments from people who don’t wish to join.

        “Ben didn’t mention that Corporates buy off politicians all the time and apparently the fix was in supporting those donors.”

        And eddie didn’t mention that unions have a long history, especially in Michigan, of buying off politicians. Pot calling the kettle black, eddie?

        “Gotta love these lopsided and dishonest articles which leaves [sic] so much out!”

        Gotta love these responses that fail to address any of my concerns and attempt to take the thread off into the weeds. Time to get off the talking points and address my assertions, please.

        “The more there is at the top the higher the wages, the bigger the yearly bonuses and the larger pension plans.”

        Eddie, management doesn’t earn wages, it’s salaried.

        “It’s the CEOs who controls [sic] the costs and in the case of the auto industry they control what gets made.”

        The major expense to the corporation is wages and salaries. And salaries are a TINY portion of labor expense.

        “The workers, union and non union only built what management tells them to and have no say in what goes to market.”

        Guess you never followed the GM fiasco. The unions NOW OWN GM. And they decided to build the Volt. LOL! Talk about pi$$ poor decisions. Who are you going to blame for that, eddie?

      • eddie47d

        See my comment on the Hostess Company below and wake the heck up Vigilant. Apparently you are the clueless one in what goes on in the boardrooms. That is the new American creed…err greed! You responded with a list of excuses nothing more!

      • Kate8

        Vigilant – You are spot on…way to go!

        The thing is, no matter how many times we point out the obvious (and the hypocracy) of eddie et all on these threads, we keep having the same debates, over and over…

        They are either unable to grasp facts, or they have another motive…

        The refuse to acknowledge that huge corporations are in control of EVERYTHING, including their cherished politicians, and including unions. Unions, btw, have a long history of criminal behavior and thuggish tactics…not to mention that they have been a favorite tool of communism. Their constant whining about corporate greed falls pretty flat, I’d say. They only call it greed when it’s going into someone else’s pockets. When it benefits THEM, they call it “fairness”.

      • Paul Wells

        All you need to know is: Idiots like eddie are the reason that companies like Hostess went (and go) under. They lionize corporations, and portray them as the ultimate bad guys, and have their union accomplices try to strong arm every cent they can possibly get, even to the point of unprofitability, and then STILL vilify the business in question. He thinks himself a modern day Robin Hood, except he is certainly more morally bankrupt. Anything the freakin’ union does, is acceptable, as long as the rank and file collectivists extract their “due”. Fail!

      • Jana

        Paul Wells,

        You are so right.

      • Gordon

        That’s correct. Right to work states sometimes have lower unemployment numbers. We also work the identical job on the identical machine across the state line in a union state for 3 times the money than this right to work state. It is poverty wages or unions. Take your pick.

      • Gordon

        By the way, these are state funded construction jobs. We don’t get a choice where to work, you either go where assigned or are totally unemployed. period. Try going 250 miles away paying your 100% own expenses, (motel, eats, gas, insurances) for $12 hr. I think unions are out of hand with their tenured bad employees, but the disparity is ridiculous.

      • Paul Wells

        Gordon, This is for you. I too faced a situation like that. I didn’t like the fact that it was and either/or choice. I chose to go back to school and get an IT degree, which qualified me for a much better job at better pay. The difference is, you have to do something to make it happen. The union ain’t gonna do it for you, this is something you must discipline/motivate yourself to do. Or…even qualify for a better machine to operate or somehow make yourself more valuable. The choice is yours.

      • Gordon

        True, but having this MS in a field that is almost dead, or requires thousands of miles between us and the family…. you’d be suprised the PhD guys laying bricks and fixing cars out here in middle America. There are no jobs available in many fields, all gone out of the country. I know a MS degree guy who was THE plant manager for a large equipment manufacturer (you’ d know the name) who sent their production to India…. What’s he do now?….. His investments allowed early retirement and he says…… Thank you for shopping WM.

      • Gordon

        Paul, a person has to be willling to leave family and friends and move hundreds of miles away for a maybe steady job. The Chamber says we have 30% unemployment and 49% drawing something on the 3rd. Overall state averages might be small but many areas are really high unemp. Get to a city of 60,000 things seem like they’re really humming, but the unemployment is high. State officially told me that “If you are not drawing a weekly unemp check, you are NOT unemployed.”….. save those numbers for the O news reel.

      • eddie47d

        Kate 8 and Paul Wells: Then that must mean when corporations become greedy and overly top heavy where their costs shoot through the roof with executive salaries then all you have to do is blame the unions and that makes it alright? If management make bad decisions or a cheap product that no one will buy then you blame the union! Not the person in management who designed and promoted the product. Your right no matter how long I’ve been on here you still blame the workers and not the person (CEOS) who runs the company into the ground. Now when Kate 8 can master fairness or facts then we can talk!

      • Paul Wells

        Gordon, I know it’s not as easy as it used to be, and that sucks. I’ll be the first to admit that. I know life is about change, and change is the only constant, and all that. Further, living in a global economy and remaining competitive is the penultimate challenge, but we have to figure out how to do it and make it work, or we’re doomed for the dinosaur pile. I still believe we are exceptional, and that we can again lead the world. I hope I’m not wrong about that. But the path we seem to be on will not get us there!

      • eddie47d

        So Jana you think its appropriate to treat workers like crap while those at the top keep feeding themselves bonuses that a company can’t sustain? Somehow there always seems to be unconscionable dollars for their wallets while the person who builds the product gets laid off of have wages taken away.

      • Kate8

        eddie – I do not blame unions, per se. They are just another cog in a giant, corrupt machine. They all need to function to keep the Beast running.

        Also, I have known very few union workers, except for government employees and a few here and there. Aside from the fact that they make a whole lot more money than we shlubs who are non-union, I have never seen any non-union worker who was ‘treated like cr*p’.

        Anyone who is treated poorly by an employer can appeal to fair workplace laws. Any wise employer will treat his people well if they do a good job. And no one forces them to take it.

        eddie, you just love the unions because they provide a club and an extravagant retirement package. They also raise the costs of things we need because they cost the employer so much more than if he were non-union.

        Anytime you have a group who realize that they can intimidate others into giving them more and more stuff, they will exercise that, and come to believe that it is their right, even if it is to the detriment of others.

      • Bob

        Right on we are losing our freedom of choice left and right. If unions are so cool why is legislation necessary? Maybe theor violence will be the start of the civil war we so desperately need.

      • Vicki

        eddie47d says:
        “Vigilantante like Ben head straight for the violent rhetoric (thugs and brutality). Not one word about Corporate “thugs”. You know the ones who own the companies and take in multi million dollar salaries.”

        And don’t go around beating up people. That’s why we don’t call them thugs. That you call them thugs is one of the many reasons your credibility here is so close to 0.

      • eddie47d

        Kate 8 doesn’t know but few union people but thinks they all live high on the hog. I’ve been in dozens of union peoples houses and none live anywhere as nice as you believe. I have also seen hundreds of non-union folks who want to be in a union but the company won’t let them. Their wages are pathetic and never enough to buy a house and a car. You can forget about sending your kids out for a higher education.Some are edging towards retirement and still don’t have much.

      • eddie47d

        I don’t endorse any kind of violence Vickie but nice of you to try and make that connection. That is why I put “thugs” in parentheses and was borrowing from the authors usage. Since banks and mortgage companies royally shafted this country and sent many citizens into a tail spin shouldn’t those Companies or CEOs be called “thugs”. Ben has been using the term thug for a few years now and you seem to be okay with that. Apparently with you those corporates do no harm and you never have choice words for them. I see nothing wrong with unions taking pay cuts to save the company but not when the upper levels are still demanding and getting more. The Middle Class can’t survive with that disparity.

      • Karolyn

        Hey what about the right-to-work state South Carolina with one of the highest unemployment rates in the country. That’s what having a Republican government does to a state! I might add that the latest polls have demo Vincent Sheheen winning over incumbent gov. Nicki (globetrotter author) Haley.

      • larry ryan

        Sorry, Eddie, I watched the confriontation on tape. All of it. From several cameras and from several angles. The union thugs said out loud, I have a gun and I’ll kill you to the reporter. The reporter civilly asked a question that apparently the union thug was too stupid to be able to answer. The thug not only hit him but he and another thug cold cocked him and hit him in the back when he turned around. The act of stone cowards. No way you can spin that. There’s an assault warrent out for that thug and some others for other assault activities. But interstingly the reporter issued a challege to the thug. Get in the mma ring with him, all money to go the charity of the winner’s choice and he won’t press charges. Any bets that no union thug has the guts to step forward?

      • Vicki

        eddie47d says:
        “I don’t endorse any kind of violence Vickie but nice of you to try and make that connection.”

        You’re welcome though I made no such connection. You did.

        eddie47d: “That is why I put “thugs” in parentheses and was borrowing from the authors usage.”

        The author used thug correctly and even added the proper adjectives as to which thugs. Since the properly labeled people were acting as thugs they were properly identified.

        YOU decided to make a connection between the behavior of thugs and the behavior of corporations

        eddie47d: “Since banks and mortgage companies royally shafted this country and sent many citizens into a tail spin shouldn’t those Companies or CEOs be called “thugs”.”

        Since neither banks nor mortgage companies royally shafted the country then no they should not be called thugs. Now the people who forced the banks and mortgage companies to make unsafe loans to citizens that could not pay back the loans used the force of government to do their thuggery, can certainly be called thugs.

        eddie47d: “Ben has been using the term thug for a few years now and you seem to be okay with that.”

        Of course I am. He uses it correctly.l

        eddie47d: ” Apparently with you those corporates do no harm and you never have choice words for them.”

        IF you ever bothered to read what I write you would know I have lots of choice words for crony capitalist corporations (Solyndra comes to mind). When you get a round toit you can present your evidence concerning specific corporations.

        eddie47d: ” I see nothing wrong with unions taking pay cuts to save the company but not when the upper levels are still demanding and getting more.

        Look at the bright side. When the (bakers) union refuses to take a pay cut to save the company because some mythical other group is getting more (there is that envy that God warned us to avoid) you can enjoy the fact that they won’t really get more cause the company died.

      • eddie47d

        Very cleaver Vickie but no matter how you spin it and yes you are very good at it there are Corporations that deliberately and very knowingly rip the consumer off. That is thuggery no matter which way you want to paint it. Yes I have mentioned those companies several times over the last 3 years and everyone runs for cover and won’t admit it. I’m especially talking about the banks (Wachovia,Wells Fargo,Citibank of America,etc) Now Wells Fargo has corrected some of the old problems and is considered a top bank to do business with. Any Corporation that commits Insider Trading is a thug such as the one Mr Regas was CEO of or Joe Nacchio’s taking company (Quest) money for personal gain.

      • Liberty Lover

        Excellent comment, Vigilant. One often hears today that “unions had their time and place but have become counterproductive today.” That view reflects a serious misunderstanding of history, what I call the “Charles Dickens school of history.” Few people realize that minimum wage, often cited as one of the great achievements of unions, was racist in its origins (and is racist in its destructive effects even today). Collectivism breeds mediocrity always and everywhere, whether on the macroscopic levels of communist societies or the microscopic levels of labor unions.

      • Jana

        Eddie, you are so weird.

        You are very cleaver eddie, but no matter how you spin it and yes you are very good at it there are UNIONS that deliberately and very knowingly rip the public sector off. That is thuggery no matter which way you want to paint it. Yes I have mentioned those Corporations and I don’t agree with those big bonuses while rippping off the people.

        Any Union that forces the general public to bail them out and pay for their
        exhorbitant retirement funds is a thug and is taking money for personal gain.

      • Deerinwater

        Here your Twinky Paul

        Regarding Hostess ; 8 years of Wall Street Management has a 70 year old company on the ropes;

        Get your Twinkies and your Wonder Bread now, because what you see in stores is the last of them. (At least until the brands are sold at auction and revived.) Hostess Brands has announced that it will liquidate, blaming a strike by workers in one of its unions as they rejected a contract that called for them to make major concessions on wages and benefits. The workers had taken concessions to help the company survive a previous bankruptcy, and this time around when the call for cuts came, members of the Teamsters narrowly accepted them while members of the Bakery, Confectionery, Tobacco Workers, and Grain Millers union overwhelmingly said no and went on strike. According to the company, it’s all the workers’ fault:

        “We deeply regret the necessity of today’s decision, but we do not have the financial resources to weather an extended nationwide strike,” said CEO Gregory Rayburn in a statement.

        Of course, Hostess management had already claimed that the strike would be responsible for the closings of specific plants—when it had already planned to close plants even if the workers accepted the cuts and stayed at work. BCTGM President Frank Hurt says the workers understood who they were dealing with:

        Our members know that the plans all along of the Wall Street investors currently in control of this company did not include the operation of Hostess Brands any longer than it takes to sell the company in whole—or in part—in a way that will maximize the profits of these vulture capitalists regardless of the impact on the workforce.
        Workers were being asked to accept cuts, but top executives had gotten massive raises as Hostess was about to enter bankruptcy. Investments in the company’s future that had been promised as part of restructuring after the previous bankruptcy were never made. And as for the management, put in place by the private equity companies that now own Hostess, Hurt says:

        Unfortunately however, for the past eight years management of the company has been in the hands of Wall Street investors, “restructuring experts”, third-tier managers from other non-baking food companies and currently a “liquidation specialist”. Six CEO’s in eight years, none of whom with any bread and cake baking industry experience, was the prescription for failure.

        This is a Mitt Romney-style deal. Throughout the campaign, we read about Romney’s past deals that went very much like what’s happening to Hostess. Now we’re watching it in real time—and seeing how when workers fight back, they’re targeted for blame

        The wealthy blaming the workers ~ as they skip their way to the bank.

      • vicki

        eddie47d says:
        “… there are Corporations that deliberately and very knowingly rip the consumer off. That is thuggery no matter which way you want to paint it.”

        Silly of me to paint it like it is (unlike liberals who want to paint words as they want them to mean)

        Now should a corporation send out its agents to beat you up when you fail to pay your ObamaTax I will grant your the use of thuggery as correct to describe that action.

      • Bungal

        The worst of all of this is the denial of those objecting to Right to Work is not just those words. I am a UAW member and see that anyone should have the freedom to choose if they desire to join a union or not. It is much more important to keep our American freedoms of choice, and with abortion, they couple already had their choice and it was not our decision of choice! With Right to Work, there is but one time and it is not an evil to not join a union if one does not choose to do do.

        The election was close and I received 3 glossed cards from my UAW. Of course, since I am informed what Bill Clinton was to America while in office and what Obama did to us all, I tossed the crap in the basket and voted freedom as a veteran, whose Dad also served and died. It is 1000x more important to keep our freedoms than to support the CIA and MOB at any time in any country! If the unions of our future want to be in anyway viable then they need to remove the MOB influence from them because the MOB no longer supports our freedoms or our own Constitution. We should of removed them long ago when they took out JFK and Bobby.. FBI files released, “Freedom of Information Act!” Warren Commission have to many Commies in their team?

  • GALT

    Union thugs vs. Corporate benevolence

    Will the “spotted ben” be extinct soon?

    • Paul Wells

      Galt, you are a master provocateur, granted…but dailykos doesn’t hold any water with me. Find a more reliable (unbiased) source, or forget about it!

      • GALT

        The source is or was an employee…… it or don’t……but thanks for sharing.

      • Jana

        The source was a union employee.

      • eddie47d

        Apparently Jana could care less how much is stolen from workers pension funds to pay Corporate bonuses. The union wage earner is a bum to her and always will be no matter how many facts are presented to her to dispute that. The Jana’s have divided America into the have and have nots and we know which side she is on.

      • Jana

        If that’s what you get out of what I write, then you don’t read very well.

      • Vicki

        eddie47d says:
        “Apparently Jana could care less how much is stolen from workers pension funds to pay Corporate bonuses. ”

        Proof by bald assertion. A common liberal trait.

        How about this. Apparently eddie47d could care less how much is stolen from workers pension funds to pay UNION bosses.

        Now I don’t really have any evidence that eddie doesn’t care beyond his lack of comment thus I used eddies rhetoric of “apparently..”, but I DO have evidence that union bosses are “stealing” pension funds.

        The real question to ask yourself is what is meant by “stealing”
        Yes there is pension fund raiding but why do liberals call it stealing when corporations do it but not when unions do it?

      • eddie47d

        Wow Vickie that was a bald assertion in itself. Didn’t prove a thing and considering it was written by the National Right to Work committee I can understand the bias and lack of credibility. They’ll have to produce better facts than that. You need to take a look at what the Hostess manager demanded if you want to be emphasising greed.

      • WTS/JAY

        I have no reason to doubt the sincerity of this letter, and neither does the under-handed tactics of the company surprises me. As for their union, useless! Sold them down the river! Not a big union man, but what the hell’s the point of having a union if it doesn’t act in the employees best interests? This one certainly didn’t! All the wasted union-dues; i guess they wont be getting those back either…!

      • vicki

        Eddie47d writes:
        “You need to take a look at what the Hostess manager demanded if you want to be emphasising greed.”

        Why don’t you share it with us eddie? And while you are doing that you can share with us why the “demand” was so “greedy” that only 1 union said no.

    • GALT

      UNION THUGS?………..if you say so.

      • Bungal

        I think we miss the entire picture because we neglect what other Cooperate Heads make in their jobs. Japan, we are told, but not fully true, they make about 1/3 rd what we pay in the USA. But that figure does not include the freebees and stock option which are very lucrative there.

        We do know that Cooperate heads make many mistakes as did the buyout of the man Japan hired for their auto industry by Smith at GM! According to the papers, it was unions asking too much and the man Japan hired did not have to face such odds there. Think about it! These men or women who head or are on boards of corporations are usually very intelligent, right? But like all of us in our votes in our politics we ignore our Nation and our future, which means our children too. They had agreed in past union contracts to give too much and we should note, Bill Clinton signed NAFTA. Then he gave another gift to his friends on the board of Communist China. What? Our missile guidance systems as reported by all media in the US at that time! Oh, China has just appointed their next leader! I hear fool Liberals suggest there is no more Communism. If not free to elect their officials, there certainly is; no murder of babies because a baby must be out and screaming? Same thing.. we call it denial of facts. We better get out of our comfort zone as us vets had to do when serving!

  • GALT

    This just in Senator elect Elizabeth Warren to be on “banking committee”.

    That should make 2013 quite interesting.


      I guess they needed a Native American to fill their Diversity Quota!!!!

      • Alan Larsen

        They got a triple minority instead, indian, Woman and idiot all combined in one person!

      • eddie47d

        Elizabeth Warren is a smart intelligent woman something that scares the heck out of Conservatives. The Republicans even tried to stop her common sense consumer reforms two years ago. I reckon those Republicans were too embedded in the banking industry to give a damn. The Banksters were king in gouging people on home loans and credit cards but those on the right said it was unfair to stop them.

      • Kate8

        Un, eddie…I think you’d better do some searching into democrat connection to the banks.

        How many democrats have become wealthy beyond reason shortly after taking office? How many democrats voted for bailouts for the banks? How many democrats dance to the tune of Wall Street, Goldman Sachs… In fact, many top Ds in O’s administration have transferred right over from Goldman Sachs… And O, btw, hasn’t missed a beat, either, in doing the corporate bidding…

        Grow up, eddie. If you’re going to try to pretend that you have something to say of value, at least get your facts straight first. One of them being that the wealthiest people in Congress are democrats, and none of them pay taxes in order to “share their wealth” with the “little guy”.

        When enough people realize that this is all a sham and a scam, the whole charade is going to come tumbling down. Is that what you’re about, eddie? Protecting your benefactors?

      • GALT

        Actually Kate, that is somewhat “pointless” in this case…….as it would be with
        Brooksly Born…….( spelling uncertain )…….

        In fact between the two of them, they were far more effective at calling attention
        to the problem, then Ron Paul has been about anything…….

        Of course, if you are a “government is the problem” type, rather than
        a “corrupted government is the problem” type……..then that might explain it.

      • Kate8

        GALT – “Government” and “corruption” are not mutually exclusive terms.

        It is the nature of government to evolve toward corruption. I believe history bears this out in 100% of cases

      • eddie47d

        The comment was on Warren and how the Republicans stood against her Kate 8 in making the banks accountable. Since you decided to throw in the Democrat card when they didn’t attack her then that makes you a Republican shill. Time for you to stick to the facts about who wouldn’t do anything about the Banksters which you apparently ignore and refuse to acknowledge. Are there corrupt Democrats? Absolutely but that wasn’t the issue posed. I wouldn’t give Geithner the shirt off my back and he probably would give his up either. There are corrupt Insider Traders in the Republican Party and the Democrat Party too but that wasn’t the issue or part of the comment. Your such a hypocrite in saying in the past that you don’t play the left/right game but you do it in spades! Your also a liar as always Kate 8 and I can’t stop you from doing so but I will call you out. Now learn to stick to the comment or subject at hand.

      • WTS/JAY

        Kate8: It is the nature of government to evolve toward corruption. I believe history bears this out in 100% of cases.

        i would further refine your statement : It is the nature of man/homo-sapiens to evolve toward corruption. I believe history bears this out in 100% of cases.

      • GALT

        Actually Jay, history may bear that out, but that is some what limited in terms of
        the “species”…….whose existence is 40 times longer, than what we have managed
        to define as history.

        Evolution stopped for us 50, 000 years ago……it is our failure to evolve, that is the problem…….

        The Social Conquest of Earth by E.O.Wilson might be of interest to you.

        He identifies “eusocial behavior” which is very limited in available examples, in nature,
        and he is the first one to suggest that we may be another “example” of it……for
        it has never been applied to us, to my knowledge……

      • GALT

        Granted Kate……..but that doesn’t mean that they are mutually inclusive……after
        all…it’s not like we were not WARNED……Government is FORCE, power CORRUPTS….
        sin TEMPTS…….

        Even worse, on the other side you have “ethical rules” as well as the hypocrisy
        of “avoiding the APPEARANCE of impropriety”……..

        The “founders” were no exception…….they wanted a piece of the action and the tyrant
        was 3000 miles away………

        Take away jury rights, common law, and the right to redress grievances……
        and here we are….and we still haven’t stopped using the words……..none of them
        are true…….but we still haven’t stopped using the words………none of them
        are true…..but we still haven’t stopped using the words……..

        You see the problem?

      • WTS/JAY

        Galt says: Of course, if you are a “government is the problem” type, rather than
        a “corrupted government is the problem” type…


      • WTS/JAY

        Galt:The Social Conquest of Earth by E.O.Wilson might be of interest to you.

        He identifies “eusocial behavior” which is very limited in available examples, in nature,
        and he is the first one to suggest that we may be another “example” of it……for
        it has never been applied to us, to my knowledge……

        Hmm, i read the prologue, including chapter one. I’m intrigued! Thanks.

    • alpha-lemming

      Also heard she’s looking for exemptions (read: de-fund) to her previously 200% approval for ObamaCare implementation….. Sure brings a whole new meaning to the phrase… “Indian Giver” !!!

    • Kate8

      GALT – Humanities failure to evolve has been largely because of social engineering, manipulation and enslavement. Man accepts what is fed to him from the moment of birth, and like any animal, thinks his own experience is the way things are. You cannot know that which has never been introduced to you…

      But, perhaps this is the ultimate refinement…going through maximum adversity and insanity, and learning to overcome. Humans evolve individually at their own pace, less so than as a group. There are always only a small number who gain superior wisdom and learn the secret to peace and inner joy, which are the true jewels of evolution.

      Technological progress without evolution of consciousness creates havoc and destruction. Perhaps it is good that periodically, when mankind gets so far out of hand that there is no hope of redemption, the whole mess is rent asunder… The slate gets wiped clean in order to begin again…

      It’s like the mythological quests where the character must go through many trials and dangers in order to become worthy to win the fair maiden…the King’s daughter… Maybe this is just how things are done at this level of consciousness, to see who is worthy to move into greater experience.

      • GALT

        Kate, I realize that we began this discussion a while ago, and I did compose
        a response to you, hit the wrong button and watched it disappear…….got real ********
        and quit for the day……..I saved your stuff, but still haven’t got back to it, so
        now that we are here again……..I can clarify what I mean…… evolution.

        When I state that we have stopped evolving as a “species” 50,000 years ago, I
        am referring to our “biology”, which includes out brain structure and how it works.
        ( and, with the exception of a successful mutation, every now and then, sickle cell, tey sacs, etc. this is pretty much true for out entire genome. )

        What this means for our brains, is that it’s design structure is tuned to what was
        required by the environment at that time………..which operates on the same, prime directive as every other living thing……survive and reproduce. ( and this is still
        there…….we don’t acknowledge it…….but it is a behavioral driver, which is visible
        in what we do, if we look for it.)

        Our brains evolved for a specific purpose, a massive ( by comparison ) analog
        computer, with extreme parralell processing connections who chief function and
        design purpose is “pattern recognition”, focused on “threat assessment”, for
        survival purposes. All of this together, is what we were then, and is still what we
        are NOW. ( but things the conditions CHANGED, or we changed them, by
        discovering agriculture…….which altered our culture…….in terms of
        population density……….and a brain structure which was, for lack of
        a better description, tuned to a different frequency. )

        Reasoning, requires “logic circuits”………and this is a different structure……
        so while it is not impossible to perform the same functions with what we
        have………our biology is neither motivated or nor designed to do this.

        Pattern recognition for the purpose of “threat assessment” is still the
        operant override function……..which trumps all others, whose primary
        survival mechanism is sensory input…….movement, sounds, vibrations…
        and it produces a lot of “false positives”……which MUST be responded to,
        because while the threat may not be real, ignoring it can be fatal.

        Since this conditioning is tuned to the “natural world”, both deception
        and self deception, are part of nature, species use mimicry or are not
        what they appear to be, and it is very big in mating rituals for reproductive
        purposes…….our primary function……and all of this is present in
        our behavior. ( but is not useful for the conditions in which we find
        ourselves. )

        You made the observation that we may have to consider the fact that
        we really don’t know very much or what we know is wrong. This is essentially
        true……….because we are not structured for “logical reasoning”, and
        we have spent much of our existence in these new conditions, in ignorance
        of the “empirical foundation” and the REALITY which governs out existence.
        Still we had “questions” which REQUIRED answers, and having the
        “answers” conferred “advantage even if they were wrong. ( deception and
        self deception )

        But this too, has changed and fairly recently, because our empirical knowledge
        is now sufficient……….to construct a “logical reasoned” response to the conditions
        which IS our REALITY. Now the task is to “organize” that knowledge into
        an ordered structure……….BUT we are still stuck with our biology…….and
        THAT is our problem……….deception and self deception still provide
        advantage………which is resisting this task……..and THAT IS OUR PROBLEM.

        ( all the evidence you need is right here at P.L.D………the unevolved brain
        in a marvelous dance of “willfull ignorance”, seeking advantage, thru
        deception and self deception…….which is ultimately an exercise in
        sheer stupidity…….pointless and never ending……….and remarkably
        resilient………..evidence of “logical reasoning”……minimal and largely
        accidental……and quickly forgotten or excised……… ja vu, all over
        again, day after day…….ad infinitum…..till DEATH do us part.)

      • Kate8

        But GALT, we cannot separate our brain from our biology.

        The intellect is limited to the world of manifest form and its natural laws. It has no comprehension of inner worlds, the esoteric…in other words, higher consciousness. As far as the intellect is concerned, these other realms do not exist. So, when we are wholly operating from the intellect, we tend to deny that there is anything other than what we can see, hear, feel…and we get lost in the “facts” pronounced by ‘science’. A very limiting reality, indeed.

        However, when we learn to transfer our consciousness from the intellect to the center of our being, we begin to realize that wer are more than a brain dragging around a biological vehicle. We discover greater realms of consciousness, and our scope of possibility widens immensely. And as we learn the beauty of living in alignment with Divine (for want of a better descriptive word for you), our biology evolves, as well.

        It is always consciousness which must evolve first, because that is what governs our being. As consciousness evolves and expands beyond the known, biology increases in frequency and voltage, which translates into power, endurance and radiant health, and we move from fragmentation (which is the lot of common man) into a state of wholeness within our entire beingness and also with all of Life. Our entire being is Intelligence, not just our brains, and the brain, in its primitive ego state, is more of a hindrance than a help, for it, indeed, can only understand the world of threat and self-preservation, and will overlay the perfect blueprint within our very DNA.

        The brain is but a receiver/transmitter, and as you say, functions as a computer. It is meant as a tool of navigation in the world of form, intended to serve our Inner Master rather than function as ruler ( a role for which it is totally inadequate). It’s errors in thinking and believing translate as a prison fraught with all manner of illness and disfunction, because it keeps us in a state of lower consciousness.

        The intellect is incapable of finding real solutions or answers. It is like the hamster on the wheel, spinning and spinning and going nowhere. Only the heart aligned with Divine Intelligence, living in an open state of trust, discovers that the solution to every one of life’s challenges begins with LOVE.

        I do expect you will ridicule me for this, but I stand by it always.

      • GALT

        There is no need to “ridicule” you Kate………you have simply demonstrated
        the “problem”…..and you are wrong.

        To be conscious, requires you to be conscious of “something”…..external to yourself.

        When you speak of expanding this “consciousness” in terms of what is external to you,
        this is only useful from a “practical standpoint”, if you do not get it WRONG… terms
        of those aspects of “empirical REALITY” which matter, that which effects your ability
        to continue to exist is CRITICAL……..

        That you exist is what you know…..and that’s all you know, or have ever known,
        that you have questions regarding what you do not know… “natural curiousity”,
        which “kills cats” and will kill you, if you are not prudent in it’s exercise.

        Wanting answer’s is not the problem, it is the compulsion to “have the answers” to
        questions, when there is no mechanism or means to actually determine what
        the answer is………either because we do not have the proper tools to do so,
        or because there is no answer……because the question is irrelevant, to the
        REALITY, which you are conscious of.

        Your consciousness is aware that you exist in a REALITY that is external to you,
        you have no knowledge of another “reality” and you are also aware, that at
        some point, sooner or later, you will cease to exist in this REALITY.

        You can expand your “consciousness” to learn why this is true, you can not expand
        your consciousness to alter the REALITY, unless it is possible to actually, alter
        that REALITY.

        That you do not like the REALITY is also irrelevant, the answer remains the same,
        you will cease to exist at some point.

        Why does the sun transit the sky, during the day?

        That is the product of “expanded consciousness”.

        This was especially useful for “mystics”, who built “temples” and accepted
        donations and bribes…….” private ownership of the means of all production”,
        you might say.

        We have “expanded our consciousness” a bit since then……so that NOW,
        it just happens to match “empirical REALITY”.

        Funny how that works, don’t you think?

      • Kate8

        GALT – Just because you aren’t aware of something, does not mean that it does not exist.

        You are still operating from intellect, which is aware only of the realm of form. It cannot comprehend other realms, therefore, it determines that other realms do not exist. And you determine that, since it does not exist, those who go there are simply deluded.

        That is okay. I shall no longer waste my time in such discussions with you. When your time comes, you will find that your beliefs will fail you. Until then, you will continue to exhaust yourself in a vain attempt to make sense of the senseless.

        It’s not really so mysterious. Has to do with energy, electricity, resonance. Quite scientific after all. Many new technologies are now being released that use principles we’ve all been taught to not exist. Things like frequency healing, free-energy…things which the military has been playing with for longer than we know, weaponizing things which are far better used for healing and abundant living than for destruction and control.

        It’s time we change that. The world is in for some big surprises…that all we’ve been taught about “how things are” is false. Get ready.

        Have a nice day.

      • GALT

        Not what I said Kate, and not what I meant either.

        If you have proof of something “that exists”, then that is “empirical proof”.

        So prove it!

        If you wish to believe in “fantasies” ( as in NOT empirical ) that is up to you,
        if they are “beneficial to you and cause no harm to anyone else”, I have no
        objection…….and whether I believe them should not matter……

        Existence is what I know…..I wish it to continue for as long as possible, in a manner
        which does not harm others, and to co-operate with others who share this REALITY
        for mutual benefit, in the hope that such cooperation improves the quality of that
        existence, for all involved.

        Maybe DavidH has a label for that…….I call it sanity.

        What would you call it? Or is there something I said,to which you object?

        If by “expanding your consciousness” you make things better, fine!

        If it causes no harm, fine!

        Do you have an objection with my position? My motives? My goals?

      • GALT

        Oh forgot to ask…..what do you mean…”when MY time comes”?

        This IS MY TIME!!!!!! Do you have evidence of of “some OTHER time”, that is not
        this TIME!!!!!???????????????????

        Do you think that this TIME…..that which you know…..has a point which is not “self contained”? ( which you do not know and have no evidence for? )

      • Kate8

        GALT – I’m sure you’ve heard it said that we use only 10% of our brain’s capability. That would be the ego/intellect, the smallest part of who we are.

        Everyone, supposedly, will realize that there is much more than ego sooner or later.

        BTW, you can have intelligence, but be sorely lacking in wisdom. Wisdom is part of inner consciousness.

        The greatest part of who we are, of what the Universe is, cannot be calculated, measured or defined. That is why it is so great. It is often called the ‘pearl of great price’, because it only comes after committed endeavor and much trial and suffering.

        Only the shallow ego arrogantly proclaims his superiority. The truly evolved soul comprehends that we are but infants in the realm of understanding what things are about, and lives in utter humility and awe.

        We haven’t even begun to know what is.

      • GALT

        10%????? Total crap…….you are using 100%, all of the time, and in most cases
        its product is 0%.

        Which means in the scheme of things, most of us have NOTHING to offer.

        So you have used your 10% in this case. to completely avoid the only relevant
        question asked of you………

        Do you have an objection?

      • Bungal

        First, Eddie want us to tell all our income. I am making it with house payment/car payment and taxes on 26k a years. This is SSI and pension. UAW workers are not as spoiled as many think! If I had your extra 10k my wife would not still be overseas because of our corrupt immigration system that is now going to allow illegals and yet will refuse legals???

        Kate, I use the word change rather than evolve because I have never seen an Evolutionist win against scientific facts and when they lost, they insist the Scientist was a Creationist which has nothing to do with the facts. We want science and not corruption in its place!

        I voted against the MOB and CIA in the last election because I voted freedom for your children and my grandchildren. But some got cell phones and we see Liberals suggest that Conservatives, I mean real Americans, are idiots? I did not vote Republican because I could not get a CP! The people were asked who they got their phone from! Obama was what they suggested. Where did he get that money from, they were asked? I do not know but I got my CP! Our most respected rulers of Nations have said, “people perish for lack of knowledge!” In some cases, like with the gift to Obama by star Moran Freeman, it was racism. Morgan was once a member of the Black Panthers! I sent him a mail.. go back to them!

        One more thing concerning corruption here. My wife is overseas and some family are into politics there. I was told the weekend before the vote that Obama won! She named two States where corrupt voting would occur. Florida and Ohio! 3 months before that, a family member running for office overseas was shot in the head through a car window and killed. My Mother-in-Laws relative. It is hard to support right or wrong in our times when so many are corrupt and freedoms, we see by this President, will be removed because of ignorance by many voters.


    LETS GET IT ON!!!!!

  • Rennie

    If the Tea Party had done this it would have been a one hour news special at least on all the international libtard media. Instead not one word of violence or racism is reported in the news.

    • http://hotmail e Johnson

      Yeah,remember how they talked about the TeaParty “like,they had done this”,haha!!!!!! I watched nbctodayshow this morning,Hate to watch that show they NEVER talk about FACTS!!!!!!!But there was No Talk about the union and how they were acting,I watched it as long as I could,35 min.,had to change to FOX, but this is how it is going to be,I guess No One is BRAVE enough to tell the truth and the FACTs on most all the networks. But this with the union should be NO suprise to folks,the union has ALWAYS been low down!!!!!!!!!! I worked factory work 30+ years,none of the factories I worked for thank goodness were union,and it is a sad thing most of those small factory’s I worked at are no longer here. Thanks to Clinton and the nafta bill!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

      • Vigilant

        “No One is BRAVE enough to tell the truth and the FACTs on most all the networks.”

        Substitute “HONEST” for “BRAVE” and you’ll have hit upon it.

      • eddie47d

        NAFTA was pushed by the Republicans in Congress headed by Newt Gingrich. Its always amazing that you say you want the truth but then ignore it yourself Mr Johnson.

      • Kinetic1

        e Johnson,
        As long as we’re talking about being “Brave” and “Honest”, let’s not forget that NAFTA was written and signed by President George H.W. Bush, Mexican President Salinas, and Canadian Prime Minister Brian Mulroney in 1992. It was near the end of his term and he was doing all he could to make it his last big hurrah, but Congress wasn’t ready to finalize it until ’93 when President Clinton signed the final bill.

      • Vigilant

        Kinetic1, how many comments have you ever seen from conservatives on this site supporting Bush’s support for NAFTA?

      • Kate8

        eddie still thinks he can insert the name “Bush” and the acts of Clinton and Obama are immediately vindicated.

        He simply REFUSES to see the glaringly obvious (that they are all pushing the SAME agenda).

        We may as well acknowledge another obvious: that eddie et al are either incredibly dense, or a shill.

        Ah hem.

      • Jana

        Ha, I think I saw Eddie on TV the other night. He is the one who was trying to fight that reporter.
        About NAFTA, Clinton went into Mexico several times promoting this deal, before he became the nominee for Pres. This has Clintons fingerprints all over it too.

      • Gordon

        I have a very good friend that just retired after 25 years with the same factory, and he was making $ 15 hr with minimal insurance. This is typical of things in a right to work state. My son is a very skilled technical welder and instructor, and he makes $16 hr if and when they are not laid off. Across the state line he would be making double for the same job but cannot move his family because of his wife’s employment won’t translate up there. If it weren’t for unions we’d all be slaves to some big company. Now we are just slaves to some big company that doesn’t pay squat and minimal benefits.

      • WTS/JAY

        Kate: eddie still thinks he can insert the name “Bush” and the acts of Clinton and Obama are immediately vindicated.

        Well spotted, Kate*. And yes, they are all, worthless-swine!

      • eddie47d

        More than Kate 8 has a reading comprehension problem . That would include you WTS! I mentioned Newt not Bush. Which makes it obvious the right goes on the attack with false accusations without knowing what they are talking about. WTS followed like the sheep he is!

      • eddie47d

        Then Jana pipes up with falsified information. Clinton indeed signed the NAFTA bill but initially did not want it. Why did he? Because the Republicans directly from Newts mouth promised him it would not effect out economy or cause American workers to loose their jobs. The Republicans lied and our nation cried.

      • WTS/JAY

        NAFTA was signed by President George H.W. Bush, Mexican President Salinas, and Canadian Prime Minister Brian Mulroney in 1992.

        It was ratified by the legislatures of the three countries in 1993. The U.S. House of Representatives approved it by 234 to 200 on November 17, 1993.

        The U.S. Senate approved it by 60 to 38 on November 20, three days later.

        It was signed into law by President Bill Clinton on December 8, 1993 and
        entered force January 1, 1994.

        The North American Free Trade Agreement (NAFTA) is signed into law by President Bill Clinton. Clinton said he hoped the agreement would encourage other nations to work toward a broader world-trade pact.

        NAFTA, a trade pact between the United States, Canada, and Mexico, eliminated virtually all tariffs and trade restrictions between the three nations.

        The passage of NAFTA was one of Clinton’s first major victories as the first Democratic president in 12 years–though the movement for free trade in North America had begun as a Republican initiative.

        During its planning stages, NAFTA was heavily criticized by Reform Party presidential candidate Ross Perot, who argued that if NAFTA was passed, Americans would hear a “giant sucking sound” of American companies fleeing the United States for Mexico, where employees would work for less pay and without benefits. The pact, which took effect on January 1, 1994, created the world’s largest free-trade zone.

      • Vicki

        Gordon says:
        “I have a very good friend that just retired after 25 years with the same factory, and he was making $ 15 hr with minimal insurance. This is typical of things in a right to work state. My son is a very skilled technical welder and instructor, and he makes $16 hr if and when they are not laid off. Across the state line he would be making double for the same job but cannot move his family because of his wife’s employment won’t translate up there.”

        Lets see what is wrong with this emotional story.

        Lets presume the numbers and facts are correct.

        Son works for $16 hr
        Son CAN work for $32 hr if he commutes or moves.
        Son claims that he can’t move his family because his wife can’t find a job.
        missing critical data. Wifes salary.

        Assumption. She makes $16 hr. Moving will result is the same household income AND a mother who can stay home and properly raise kids. Further, she could find new work and increase the household income above current.

        Assumption. She makes LESS than $16 hr. Moving will result in an INCREASE in household income AND a mother who can stay home and properly raise kids. Further, she could find new work and increase the household income even more.

        Assumption. She makes MORE than $16 hr. He already gets a better household income by staying where he is.

        This is a win win situation for him and his family WHY is he (or you) complaining?

        Gordon: ” If it weren’t for unions we’d all be slaves to some big company. Now we are just slaves to some big company that doesn’t pay squat and minimal benefits.”

        2 provably false assertions. Small business.


      • eddie47d

        Nice of you to do the talking for Gordon, Vickie! Some people can’t afford to move period. They can’t sell their house or have personal family issues to handle such as sick parents or grand kids to take care of. The commute could be too long and a waste of gas and so forth. My son lives in Denver and travels to Nebraska and all over Wyoming. He’s young enough to handle it but what a waste of gasoline and family time. I keep wondering when his vehicle will peter out since he is always broke. Its nice of you to put on your Pollyanna face and play Ann Landers once in awhile but you over do it when it comes to others personal problems.

      • WTS/JAY

        eddie47d says: I mentioned Newt not Bush.

        What’s the difference, eddie? It still doesn’t change the fact that what Kate said about you, is true. Perhaps Kate should have phrased it thusly; “eddie still thinks he can insert the name of a Conservative(s) and the acts of Democrats are immediately vindicated. How’s that”?

      • WTS/JAY

        eddie says: Clinton indeed signed the NAFTA bill but initially did not want it. Why did he? Because the Republicans directly from Newts mouth promised him it would not effect out
        economy or cause American workers to loose their jobs. The Republicans lied and our nation cried.

        ROFLMAO!!! Typical of the left to feign ignorance and stupidity, which is how they cover-up their complicity and duplicity! Btw, are saying that Clinton is a ignorant and stupid-fool, not to mention gullible? Yes, i think that is exactly what your saying.

      • eddie47d

        Clinton was gamed by the Republicans and was way too trustworthy of them. All that proves is that you can’t trust a Republican and their word is not their bond. Do you enjoy belonging to that party WTS? Now what’s the difference in using the wrong name as Kate 8 implied? Credibility!! Which you seem to be lacking also.

      • Jana

        Here in Texas we were NOT for NAFTA and the news made sure everyone knew every single time Clinton went in to Mexico to help solidify this bill. NAFTA has always been a bad idea.
        eddie just isn’t as smart as he thinks he is!

        Anything to change the subject.

      • Kate8

        LOL – Thanks, Jay. I used “Bush” for rhetorical effect only.

        But then, I guess I shouldn’t have expected eddie to understand that.

      • Piped Piper

        Been reading the comments on everything. Those 2 women went off into a world of their own. I think one believes in God and the other is Atheist, I think. And the NAFTA I think was a good thing. It made it where we as North America can compete with the European Union as they are today. Without it. The EU economy would of been bigger then America by its self. But with Canada and Mexico we can compete against. Question… is Great Britain in the EU I don’t think so. They are kinda by theirself and look at their economy. But then and again the EU is so corrupt. Great Britain is better to go it alone and do a lot of their trading with Not just America but North America. Nafta has made it better to compete with the world markets that are out to get us…..I think that at least half of South America is on our side. Especially Brazil.


      Great point!!!!

      • larry ryan

        Only place I would disagree, WTS is that while the libs undoubtably are extremely duplicitous they need not feign ignorance and stupidity. Being sleazy, doesn’t stop them from being stupid as well.

    • Flashy

      renny…the TP did do this. It was a set up, plain and simple. And backfired as only FOX McNews would make hay of it. Everyone else realizes it was a total set up.

      • demsagainst obama

        Ho Hum, another unsupported unproven lie by our resident uber liberal paid shill. What else is new.

      • eddie47d

        Looked like a deliberate set up to me although sides acted badly.

    • Bungal

      My wife who is an alien, whose family is into politics in her Country told me, the weekend before our election vote that Obama won! She said two States voting would be corrupt and named the States. Florida and Ohio. We see there are questions now about those two. I use to confer with the head of the NBI in her Country. It was her Mother’s Great Uncle who has since passed away. It is their Countries FBI.

      I am a UAW member and know what goes on as I have sources and friends. 3 years before I retired I was a member of local 659, the largest UAW local in the world at that time. There was a bar behind the Union Hall and I knew the manager as he knew a hardware store owner in my town then. It was a Detroit MOB bar! He did not join or have to just to become the manager. We need to remove this extreme corruption from our unions. I do not see unions as evil, however our freedoms to choose if one wants to join is part of our Constitution! The big one.. hold onto your drawers! The Warren Commission was corrupt! The “Freedom of Information Act” recently released that the MOB killed JFK and then Bobby! There is even a video of MOB workers working out with Oswald! Any union or any organization can be good or bad. We see when any union allows the MOB in, it can be National threatening!

  • Iris D. Lynch

    It is ALL about POWER. And it is all about WHO will wield the POWER. We need to teach the individual that they own all the power they will ever need in life. Read The Miracle of Self Power and pass it on.

  • yosef

    There war against work is DUMB. America needs to get back to work

    • Gordon

      Never gonna happen. The American public wants to buy cheap priced junk and will not/can not pay for something made in the USA at 3 times the price. It is a catch 22 with a black hole at the end sucking us in.

      • Gordon

        Besides, the vast majority of US made products are “ODIG”. Out the Door It Goes….. whatever the quality of the individual product, shove it out the door. Inferior quality stuff that didn’t pass final inspection gets shuttled to WallyWorld. That’s how they meet their price tag. Fact.

      • Gordon

        2 of my best friends were college degreed truck drives who started their own local businesses/ self employed locally. Each told me that when picking up loads of every type all over the usa, that they were told by the factories, “THAT is the WM crap over there”. ODIG.

      • Dennis48e

        “Inferior quality stuff that didn’t pass final inspection gets shuttled to WallyWorld. That’s how they meet their price tag. Fact.”

        Proof Gordon Proof.

      • Dennis48e

        ” Each told me that when picking up loads of every type all over the usa, that they were told by the factories, “THAT is the WM crap over there”. ODIG.”

        Proof of nothing.

    • ranger09

      Well just keep one thing in mind, over inflated wages just work its way down to the other People.
      One thing the Big Corps and govt have in common is the top dogs sure know how to waste Money, But it sure allows them the Big salarys and perks, Lets see GM 1 million for Box seats, 10 Million to sponsor 1 Car, 10 million to sponsor 1 more, 5 million for other sports Not counting Millions getting Friends elected to Office.Etc. And we had to bail them Out.But thats Govt working with their friends
      Also People have the Right to Work, People also have the Right to join a Union, WHEN its their Choice. But like any group that has a lot of other Peoples Money Then you see a lot of waste and Greed take Place.

    • Bungal

      Thanks for the post. I totally agree, except for one thing. Voters, although we hear and I know the election was corrupt by sources overseas, we need to remove the MOB from unions and that is a National imperative in the USA. UAW, MOB is there from Detroit. Note that jobs in Flint dwindled and then we had a Communist sympathizer named Moore who went to Cuba after making Communist/Union bias support movies. The union contracts caused the problem with GM.. a lack of listening to the one they allowed on their board and Smith had him bought out! Did Smith fear the MOB? They probably told him facts on who that have killed! They killed JFK and then Bobby! The Liberal media knows this as it was given them by the release of files from the FBI by our, “Freedom of Information Act!” Just how far will the Liberal media support the destruction of our country by their immature and fearing lying? We note the last hero in media was killed by a radioactive isotope in England! Want to bet what he knew was taken away for no eyes to see?

      The CIA and FBI finally found out who gave Russia the designs of our A bomb! He lived in England near the west coast and never war arrested! He has died of course. The MOB leader that asked permission for the killing of JFK was never arrested and if not dead is probably near death and never arrested. Those that gave thumbs up in Detroit to him, they have never been charged!

  • Ann Francis

    Remember when Sara Palin used the term “target”????

    • http://hotmail e Johnson

      Ha,ha,yeah!!!!!! But it/&everything will be different when used/said by a Teapartier/conservative/republican!!!!!!!

      • Kate8

        Yep. If any conservative anywhere even breathes a word that could be interpreted by some really lame (and fictitious) moron somewhere sitting in a backwoods cabin as a call to action, the whole media erups with cries of “hate!” and “inciting violence!” and all manner of idiocy.

        However, if a liberal outright calls for bloodshed, not a word. Crickets. And if you bring it up, you get dismissal, denial, justifications.

        We can’t have reasonable discussions with liberals because their brains have been far too damaged and they don’t have normal thought processes. They’ve been indoctrinated to be always loyal to the Matrix and trained to speak in ways which produce cognitive dissonance in any reasonable person.

        The purpose, of course, is to keep us divided and distracted while the corporate masters continue trapping us in their web of deceit and control. Any system which must be erected under the radar, carefully hidden from the understanding of the people, is not one which is going to be good for us. It’s darkly evil, or it would be placed right out in the open for all to judge for themselves.

      • Jana

        And, the liberals did call for bloodshed, even said put up your dukes over and over and took the stance and called for the death of the Gov. This all coming from the ones who want everyone else to be civil, but when it comes to them they can do whatever they want however they want to do it and as you said no repercussions.Actually they were encouraged to go on.
        They aren’t civilized, they aren’t nice, they are bullies!

        Unions choose to use our freedom for the minority to destroy the freedom for the majority.
        Margaret Thatcher


      • Kate8

        You are quite right, Jana. And they did beat the cr*p out of that FoxNews reporter.

      • eddie47d

        i looked that up and I couldn’t even tell if that guy was a reporter let along from FOX News. Who ever it was he got into the faces of union protesters and egged them on. No one was beaten up and here I expected to see a bloodied face as proof. I’m beginning to believe its the right who is doing the lying and intimidating to stir up controversy.

      • Nadzieja Batki

        Since the Dems/Progs/ Leftists are for gun control what were the union thugs doing making threats against the reporter, with a gun no less?

      • eddie47d

        Nadzieja: Its Conservative who want everyone to be armed and to be able to defend themselves even at political rallies. You get what you ask for! The reporter threatened someone so as the Conservatives say he would have the right to defend himself. Correct! Isn’t that how Conservatives handle these types of situations so try and listen to what they say when the gun issues pop up. Quote, “I’ll blow him away” if I feel threatened.

  • mike johnson

    Just one more reason to dump the system and start fresh like the ussr did. Just think how nice it would be to just wipe out our debt with china that would teach them.The people of mich are way ahead now with the new pot laws and now being a RIGHT TO WORK STATE I wish PA was this far ahead so we would not have to move to Detroit….Anybody want to trade houses We hate our state with all its outdated laws and the corrupt governor we have here we will never get the freedoms that other states have with the assclowns we have here..Now if you people could work on your zoning laws so you would not need 200 permits just to move into your own home you could have the best state in the usa…….JOBS POT FREEDOM what more could you want…I cant wait to move to Detroit as soon as I can sell my home here…….

    • http://yahoo Joe

      How much weed would you take for it?

      • mike johnson

        How much you got?

    • Gordon

      Mikey, the chinese own 9% of our home loans. Right now they are trying to buy the largest aircraft leasing business in the world….. to lease aircraft to our military. etc. Maybe 15 years of major depression like the USSR and revolution to get back to the soviet way is the way to head?

    • Bungal

      So you are suggesting we do to seniors as they do there, let them starve. Great system you want us to have. Why not just take up being bed pals with Michael Moore, another ignorant fool?

      • mike johnson

        no never let them starve when we could just put them down like sick dogs then use them as dog food

  • Freedom

    This is just another example of why unions must be ABOLISHED…….they serve NO useful purpose anymore…..but have become nothing but Marxist Communist THUG Organiztions……..they are just common CRIMMINALS…

    • Ann Francis

      I heard a report on radio this morning -didn’t catch the source – with a list of negatives applied to economy in Wisconsin, such as employment down, ALL contradicted real reports of what is happening there since the thugs tried to bust up that state!
      Just say it and it’s true seems to be their agenda.

    • eddie47d

      Actually unions should be strengthened and the workers who do the actually work should be rewarded more. The Corporate thieves and their massive golden parachutes in retirement can no long sustain a company. In the 50′s the unions were the strong Middle Class and America was the number one power in the world. Now unions are weak and America is slipping in status. The greed from the top is fattening the Executives but the workers suffer. Even a 5th grader can see what is going on and Corporate greed has become king. Apparently FREEDOM must concur with those CEOs and how they exploit the workers to enhance their own personal piggy bank!

      • Kate8


        The purpose of unions is always to usher in communism, eddie.

      • Gordon

        What the hell planet are you from? It’s not the top dogs making money, it’s the unions in the middle protecting teachers that can’t read or write, assembly line workers who work at a snails pace when they show up, and general workers who don’t give a doodly squat about their job except that is pays darn good because they are union members. Unions got totally out of hand when they demanded that employees couldn’t be terminated even with major cause. Years ago a union I was in had the local president fired, so they went on strike. The company told them, we aren’t making a profit here anyway, so be back to work by 8am Monday or we’re permanently closing the doors. Guess what happened to the 286 union employees.

      • eddie47d

        Your a flat out liar on that one Kate 8 but no surprise there! If I was in the union for 40 years then where is the communism. Its not there you fool! That must mean you are in cahoots with the robber barons of yesteryear’s and who are now returning.

      • Bill

        Sounds like Eddie is just reading from the Communist Manifesto.

        Your last comments are giving away your true communist roots

    • Jana

      Of course the Democrat Socialists don’t want the Unions stopped as this is just a way of forcing the worker bees into donating to their party. It’s all about the money. The poor union worker bees aren’t smart enough to realize that they are enslaved to whatever their Union bosses tell them to do.
      The boss says strike, they strike. The boss says fight, they fight. The boss says march, they march. The boss says become a mob, they become an unthinking thug type mob. They have become little peons that are manipulated as the higher powers see fit.
      People worry so much about corporations giving big bonuses to their employees and they are right. This should not be. The Unions do the same thing though and they think that’s the way it should be. The mob (mafia type) bosses get paid high dollars and no one even cares. Then they give millions of dollars to the Democrats and form a voting block by buying votes, then they have bought themselves a Senator or a Representative or a President. Obama is for the Unions. Of course he would be as unions are nothing but a Socialist organization. Socialism is anti God, because the union becomes the god.

      • Kate8

        Very well said, Jana.

      • Gordon

        The point that EVERYONE MISSES is that their is ALWAYS a good-old-boy network that runs the whole show, whether the tag “union” is on their organization or not. The organizers always get their pockets lined so that company/management looks good……. all this at the expense of the worker bees. This is true in private companies and every governmental office and entity that I have ever seen. If you don’t see it, it is because you aren’t looking hard enough at the situation.

      • eddie47d

        While true that union members vote Democrat its also true that Corporate leaders encourage their workers to vote Republican . It was true with Segal of Florida and Coors of Colorado. If you worked for them and didn’t toe the company line of voting Republican then you would be either fired or next on the list to be canned. If this is about buying votes for Obama (Jana) then are you concerned about Sheldon Adelson buying votes for Romney? He spent just over $100 million between Newt and Mitt.

      • larry ryan

        Unions at one time were a force for good. They were in the right and knew it. And acted it. Then as time went on the old axiom proved true again. Power corrupts, absolute power corrrupts absolutely. Unions are now nothing more than parasites. Having eaten their host (i.e. destroyed both a company and the jobs that company provided) they turn their backs on the workers whose jobs and livelyhoods they’ve destroyed and move on to their next victim.

      • eddie47d

        Once again the companies failings come from the top from where managers no longer know how to run a company because they are too busy demanding more money for doing less. Works both ways but those at the top control the purse strings.

    • David Silva

      Unions have to be stopped. I used to work in a place that you either join the union or do not have a job. I will say that union is SPFPA in Texas.Maybe they will come after me for naming them.

      • eddie47d

        If the union was voted in then you were part of that union. Are you saying you deserve the same benefits that a union person pays into? In other words you want the free ride without earning it.

    • ranger09

      Unions have always been like this, They hire thugs to put disruption and fear into the Business, And also have used fear and threats againest the Employees.

    • Bungal

      I cannot agree with you! Reason, the problem is not the unions but the MOB being in everyone of them! The MOB has corrupted unions for many years and it has been against our American rights! JFK had info as did Bobby! We NOW see a video released that the cowards on the Warren Committee never released, and now, because of the “Freedom of Information Act!” The killer of Oswald, Ruby, owed great debts to the MOB owned Casinos at the time. Warren report denied it. A video of Oswald is online, released by the same freedom. JFK and Bobby were killed by the MOB! Yet they never are held accountable! They never serve time anymore! A news reporter against International crime had the info and was recently killed at a meeting by a radioactive isotope!

      America need to revamp the CIA and make all accountable to the American people when an investigation must be! We can be certain that the hit on our Ambassador and others killed will be covered up because some got cell phones? Yet, Liberals suggest Conservatives are idiots. If the word idiots means know the facts, I do not agree with that definition, but agree many of us know them!

  • Flashy

    Let’s see..a governor who PROMISED no anti union busting measure would be signed (and reneged on that promise), a lame duck legislature which lost seats and in 20 days would have no chance of getting the anti union measure passed, the measure introduced, no committee, no debate and passed in less than 72 hours, a highly unionized state. then…during heated protests over this end around of the democratic processes by the GOP, a CONSERVATIVE ANTI UNION group sets up a tent…smack in the middle of heated protests. On top of that, FOX sends in a thinly noted “news reporter”..who “just happens” to be at the tent.

    Let’s not forget, that tape by FOX is highly edited.

    Reverse the situation..say it was a pro union bill being rushed through in such a way. Say in Alabama or Georgia or Texas. And a pro Obama tent was set up in the midst of such a protest by Tea Party members.

    Now …just what do you think is gonna happen?

    • momo

      Gee, flashman, was the punch edited? YEAH RIGHT!!! Get real, foreign car companies set up their plants in right to work states. Toyota goes to Texas, Honda to Tennessee, BMW to South Carolina. I wonder what the reason could be, oh yeah right, they don’t want to deal with union thugs!

      • Flashy

        Momo..what happened before that punch was thrown? Did the guy ‘ask’ for it hoping to incite something newsworthy (not expecting anything more than a shove) ?

        Who was looking for a confrontation? You really believe folks setting up an anti-union tent in the middle of those protests were thinking peace or were they hoping and urging “in your face’ confrontation?

        How about i attend a TP meeting wearing a pro Obama t Shirt and talking smack when confronted. What do you think will happen?

      • Gordon

        They’re building a better car at a competitive price. AND the worker is making significantly more than he could at a trivial job, and the company is saving by not paying for over priced union labor that refuses to do the job efficiently. The real problem is the attitude of the US worker. That is the real problem. No personal integrity in any area of their lives.

      • momo

        flashman, I thought you on the left were opposed to violence….I guess that’s if only those on the right committ it.

      • Average Joe

        Falsy says:

        “Momo..what happened before that punch was thrown? Did the guy ‘ask’ for it hoping to incite something newsworthy (not expecting anything more than a shove) ?”

        Since when does asking question give anyone the right to place thier hands upon another person in a threatening manner?
        If I am asking you questions…and you don’t like my questions…do you have the right to punch me in the face? If so, then I must reserve my right to stab you in the heart or shoot you in the forehead…I mean seriously…if asking uncomfortable questions warrants being punched out…then certainly getting punched out warrants a stabbing or a shooting…right?
        You are a…..[comment has been edited]


      • eddie47d

        MOMO please answer his question on what the Tea Party folks would do. I’ve heard cat calls from Republicans attending a Democrat rally and they do disrupt meetings too. Obviously its not pleasant and neither side is innocent.

      • Flashy

        “flashman, I thought you on the left were opposed to violence….I guess that’s if only those on the right committ it.” Momo

        i didn’t say it was appropriate…but I did ask just what do you think to expect? No one but a set up or an idiot would set up an Anti-union tent in the midst of an emotional huge pro union event. if someone i knew was tossing a tent into the back of the pickup and heading to such a stressed out emotional demonstrtion of thousands…and they planned to have an anti whatever tent in the middle of that? What would you think/ I’d be thinking ‘if they’re lucky, they’ll only get the crap kicked outta them”.

        It was a set up…all the way. With that FOX tape heavily edited (you can tell…watch it). You have no clue what went on beforehand…and the reporter was expecting nothing but a shove. He was expecting can tell. you aren’t that blind. Set up all the way.

      • Bungal

        How much do Union bosses make? Good question. I was a member of the largest UAW local in the world, 659, when someone found out, probably released by the Detroit MOB, that the President was taking funds! In this real world they probably already knew this and gave permissions! When, if ever, we as union members insist NO MOB affiliation, then Unions will become good for America. Right now we have two things not addressed by the Liberal Media or the Conservative Media! Why, when we know, by released filed from the FBI, that JFK and Bobby were targets and killed by the American MOB, do we say nothing? FBI files release say Ruby had big debts to the MOB and Warren Commission lied to us! A video taken shows that Oswald was working out with the MOB workers!

        Want to know the facts? Why not totally remove what we have in our CIA? Revamp it totally and use Israel info as they seem to have the best, Not happen, yes because American fools, we call them Liberals, do not support honor and we know they cannot fully support what they, media wise support? Is that not how all of us suggest there is children of adult age in the Liberal media or is it that they fear the International MOB supported by Liberal media out of fear? Certainly it is!

    • Kinetic1

      Try telling your local Chamber of Commerce that you don’t want to join or pay dues, but you want to be included in all their promotions. That you want to take advantage of their collective bargaining for add space and health insurance because you are unlikely to be able to get those prices on your own. Let them know that you appreciate all the work they have done and all the benefits local business’ derived from their organization, but that you just want to pick the fruit, not help to grow it. They’ll throw you out on your butt and I don’t believe that any one on this site would blame them.

      • rb

        The union is not forced to reprisent anyone in an open shop. If the non union member wants union reprisentation it is legal to charge that person a per hour fee in line with what it costs the union to defend them. An employer also does not technically have to pay a non union member according to the union contract. Oh and no business is required to join the local Chamber in order to do business in the town.

      • eddie47d

        Most guys and gals in our shop belonged to the union and those who did not still received the same benefits. They also received union representation if requested. We had one non union member who always asked for union help and then joined for a couple of months then dropped out. Then he’d ask for help again and again whether in or out. What a flip flopper!

    • eddie47d

      MOMO: The Japanese and Koreans don’t pay their executives the huge salaries that American companies do and the wage level ratio is much lower. They aren’t as greedy as our CEOs so their decision may not have anything to do with unions but fairness within the companies. To put it another way why pay Michigan CEO wages when they can start fresh in Tennessee and pay Korean wages.

      • momo

        You’ve been signing petitions too long eddie. There’s only one CEO, but how many thousands of workers? The CEO gets his salary set by the company’s board. Last time I checked the board of any company could lower the CEO’s pay, but then what kind of CEO would you have? It’s called competition.

      • eddie47d

        You like greed and I like fairness so what can I say. There is nothing ! Nothing at all that says these CEOs deserve what they are getting. Our economy tumbles and you are still obsessed with paying them more and watching the Middle Class union jobs sink. That is not competition but pure CEO evil.

      • Vicki

        eddie47d says:
        “There is nothing ! Nothing at all that says these CEOs deserve what they are getting.”

        There IS something that says these CEO’s deserve what they are getting. The people that CHOOSE to hire the CEO and CHOOSE what to pay them. If YOU don’t think the CEO is worth it than don’t hire him/her for YOUR company.

      • eddie47d

        How do you think these CEOs receive those jobs nowadays? They intimidate to get what they want and demand those golden parachutes. Yes there are cowards on those boards who approve those salaries without out thinking about it will cost them.Those stock options they have to pay out can and do kill companies. Usually that CEO got his contracted pay and leaves the company and the company is left holding the bag. I call it blackmail and thievery and you can pretty it up all you want. I’ve seen failing CEOs who are with a company for less than a year and still receives $11 million dollars in pay out. Its like a cancer of greed where they are rewarded for incompetence. Until that can be stopped our economic future will be bled dry and company coffers drained.

      • Jana

        I’ll ask you again eddie, what union did you belong to?

      • eddie47d

        You received your answer below unless it was taken off. I expect to be hearing from you soon.

      • vicki

        eddie47d says:
        “How do you think these CEOs receive those jobs nowadays? They intimidate to get what they want and demand those golden parachutes.”

        Are you familiar with the word libel?

        eddie47d: “Yes there are cowards on those boards who approve those salaries without out thinking about it will cost them.Those stock options they have to pay out can and do kill companies.”

        Proof by bald assertion. It would be nice for you to explain how a stock option can kill a company since it is an option and not even real stock.

        eddie47d: “Usually that CEO got his contracted pay and leaves the company and the company is left holding the bag.”

        Oh no. How dare we insist that a company uphold its contract. We should immediately order all companies to stop upholding their UNION contracts too. (Are you familiar with the word petard? as in hoisted by?)

        eddie47d: “I call it blackmail and thievery and you can pretty it up all you want.”

        Or I could observe the liberal tendency to mis-use words.

        eddie47d: “I’ve seen failing CEOs who are with a company for less than a year and still receives $11 million dollars in pay out. Its like a cancer of greed where they are rewarded for incompetence.”

        Or the people who contracted with him are punished for incompetence.

        eddie47d: “Until that can be stopped our economic future will be bled dry and company coffers drained.”

        Obviously false premise. The Reagan years of plenty demonstrably prove the falsehood of your claim.

        For those of us who have actually worked for a living, we notice that 35% tax rates on corporations bled far more from a company then the presumed excesses of a few possible incompetent boards of directors.

      • Jana

        How do you think these Unions get and keep those jobs nowadays? They intimidate to get what they want and demand those golden parachutes. Yes there are bullies on those boards who force the companies to accept those salaries and pensions and health benefits and by the way they are exempt from Obamacare (cronyism) without out thinking about it will cost their state or the rest of the public.
        I call it blackmail and thievery and you can pretty it up all you want. I’ve seen failing companies who are being blackmailed by these stupid Unions
        They are like a cancer of greed and they are rewarded for incompetence and laziness. Until that can be stopped our economic future will be bled dry and company coffers drained.

    • Average Joe

      Flasy says:

      “then…during heated protests over this end around of the democratic processes by the GOP, a CONSERVATIVE ANTI UNION group sets up a tent…smack in the middle of heated protests. On top of that, FOX sends in a thinly noted “news reporter”..who “just happens” to be at the tent. ”

      Why did the protest have to be “heated”? Are the union members incapable of rational, reasonable,peaceful protest? Are they not capable of expressing thier views without using threat of physical violence and intimidation? Or are they just plain…mean spirited thugs who only know how to negotiate by “Force”? ( I vote, All of the Above).
      So what, someone,”a CONSERVATIVE ANTI UNION group ” set up a tent. Were the “public” grounds reserved soley for the Union protesters? Was this a “no other opinions welcome” protest? I am guessing that they had the same “Right” to be there on public property as the Union protesters….or have the rules changed and someone forgot to tell us?
      Rational people would say,”Ok, the bill passed…what can I do through the legal system to get a temporary injuction and fight this through the courts?”……but not these folks…
      “We are going to undo 100 years of labor relations. And there will be blood. We will relive the Battle of the Overpass- Geiss”
      Nope, let’s not do things in a rational,orderly manner….simply beat your opponent into submission…yep….that will work….NOT!

      If you’re gonna be a smarta**, first, you have to be smart…otherwise your just an a**

      • Flashy

        Ummm…ever been to a rally protesting against any proposed gun control? Seems a few years ago people would pack guns openly in TP demonstrations. joe…your argument is just plain silly…c’mon….think about it some will ya?

        • Bob Livingston

          Dear Flashy,

          You write: “Seems a few years ago people would pack guns openly in TP demonstrations.” Those incidents occurred in States where open carry was legal. Do you oppose legal activities, Flashy?

          Best wishes,

      • Average Joe

        Falsy says:
        “Seems a few years ago people would pack guns openly in TP demonstrations. joe…your argument is just plain silly…c’mon….think about it some will ya?”

        Hmm…was anyone shot at any of these (Lawful open carry) rallies? was anyone even drawn upon? Your argument is just plain silly and doesn’t address my comment in any way…it simply attempts to misdirect…I am not amused, nor am I misdirected…. Maybe it is you who should think? (try not to hurt yourself)


      • Average Joe

        BTW,if my memory serves me correctly…those were not TP meetings that you referred to…they were Townhall meetings…meaning that all kinds of folks were there at the meeting…not just Tea Partiers…you know… Dems, Repubs, Indies….the whole town? If you’re going to tell a story…get your facts straight…unless you just enjoy being exposed…as a liar. Google it…if you are capable.


      • ranger09

        CEOs and the Board members protect ea other all for their own benifit. Mean while the small stock holder pays for all this.

    • Bill

      We need o make all 50 states right to work states. Then, if the private sector unions can survive, then so be it. Public sector unions are ones that need to be controled

      • Average Joe

        Spot on!


  • http://none ron

    Choices have consequenses. Snyder just chose to be a one term governor. Michigan will go Democrat in 2014.

    • Ann Francis

      Sounds VERY negative, let’s remember Wisconsin and how Walker “chose” to not be recalled!!!

      • Kinetic1

        The Right did a very good job of convincing the people of Wisconsin that the recall was not the appropriate method of dealing with the issues.
        “Recall was never meant to be used just because you don’t like the way the other side is governing,” said Jenny Beth Martin, a co-founder of the Tea Party Patriots, which made tens of thousands of calls to voters in recent days in support of Mr. Walker.”

        Gov. Walker raised millions from outside the state. Plus, state law allowed him months of unlimited fund-raising. He was allowed to start right from the day the recall challenge was begun. At least $45.6 million went to support Walker, compared with about $17.9 million for his opponent Mayor Tom Barrett. Do you think the money might have played some part in this election?

        • Ann Francis

          Don’t have time to follow the linc you posted here Kinetic1 but surely you are playing just a LITTLE bit loose with facts when you site Walker having raised more than his opponant in the recall etc. So, the money brought in by the unions tho not labeled for his opponant has no bearing on anything????

      • Paul Wells

        Were you being serious?!? Walker won the recall by MORE THAN he won the election by! How is that “chose not to be recalled?!?” It seems to me that it is YOU that plays fast and loose with the facts!

      • Jana

        Paul Wells,
        Ann was using a play on words when she answered Kinetic. You misunderstood what she was saying. She is one of the good guys too.

      • eddie47d

        Ann (10:43) was very loose with facts and I don’t think she had any.

      • Jana

        No that’s you eddie.

      • eddie47d

        The Koch’s dumped the most money into Walkers election,okay Jana.

    • eddie47d

      Republican Ohio (Governor) also attacked unions and made outlandish demands. Ohio then went to Obama because of his overreach.

    • rb

      Do you really live in the State of Michigan or the state of confusion or both? I am from Michigan where we just sufferred throught the worst economic times our state has endoured in its long history. We led the country in job decline, income decline, unemployment, mortgage and bank fraud during the Granholm administration. 25% of the states population LEFT. Detroit went from 1 million people to less than 750,000. This was once a city of 3 million. All under Democratic rules and the same exact policies being foisted on this country by the current POTUS.
      It was the Union that forced GM into bankruptcy where they stold stock holders money through a corrupt bankruptcy, robbed retirees of their pensions and insurance, and were handed the entire corporation paid for with taxpayer money. They closed high production plants that did not toe the union line and shipped the jobs to under producing factories in other states where people stood around because there was no work. They toed the union line though so their were no layoffs. Fact!
      Michigan is leading the nation in economic recovery because of the Republican governor that reduced the corporate tax rate from a whopping 23% under the Democrats to just 6%. Jobs came back. Wages are up unemployment no longer leads the nation. People are buying houses and cars with their new jobs. Most of them non union and good paying. And son of a gun even Detroit is growing with tech jobs not entirely related to the auto industry. Even Google (the corporation) likes Michigan now. That didn’t happen by raising taxes even higher.
      Right to work is long over due in Michigan. I am a 21 year Union member and believe that more strongly than ever. I noted an interesting phenomenon though. The State Police (whose Union is exempt from the new right to work laws) went right to work arresting the union gangsters who felt it was ok to do bodily harm and disrupt the legislative process. Seems in some states the police still have balls enough to stand up to the inimidation.

      • eddie47d

        It was bad corporate polices that forced the auto industry into hard times. The auto industry sank while Bush was President and Obama has done much to bring it back. How many more messes does he have to clean up? Like in Wisconsin your Governor used underhanded tactic to accomplish their mission. A dishonest Republican is just as bad as a dishonest Democrat and this country needs straight economic shooters from either party. Now that’s a fact !

      • momo

        eddie47d says: ” The auto industry sank while Bush was President and Obama has done much to bring it back.”

        You mean rewarded his UAW buddies! He gives them 39 percent equity stake for their 10 billion in claims and then screws the bondholders by giving them a 10 percent equity stake for their 27 billion in claims. And the government is still holding a massive amount of GM stock, just to break even the stock has to go to 53 per share, as of today its at 25.

      • eddie47d

        What is your goal MOMO to kill unions or the auto industry or both? There is way too much inaction in this country and enough of this fiddling around and doing nothing.

  • http://aol John

    Being a conservative most of my life, I find the extreme views on this board somewhat unsettling. There should be some middle ground for a person to work at decent wages and not have their job threatened by others willing to work at sub-standard wages. That creates a battle of wage melt-down where jobs pay minimum wage at all levels. Not good. You cannot support a family that way. These large corporations that are in trouble because of leveraged buyouts, minimum inventories, and basically being raided by Romney-like individuals doesn’t mean it is the workers fault. I think most people get that. Yes, there are fat cats in the union and we don’t need them. I get that. But this shouldn’t be an all or nothing event. Unions should be able to co-exist with companies. I was in a union. When the company needed help we took wage cuts to get it through tough times. When the profits came back, the company didn’t renege on their deal. Cooperation. Todays battles are cut-throat and unnecessary. Unholy? Hardly. Unless you’re talking “union busting.” Then it makes sense.

    • eddie47d

      Thank you John for I didn’t think there was any common sense left on this site!

      • Gordon

        John and eddie. The real financial freedom is self employment. period. When you have a job, J.O.B.= just over broke= your boss tells you when to wake up, when to go to sleep, where you can live, how $$ your house is, where you children can go to school, IF your children can go to college, what you drive, IF and when you can vacation, and where you vacation…… etc……. face facts. Working for someone, they control every aspect of your life…… you are a slave whether you realize it or not. The only freedom is self employment. When I was a kid, everyone sort of snickered at the jews and mid-east decent people BUT they realized that WE worked our butts off and those others had just as good of houses and cars and had good lives being retailers, or business owners. Darn smart folks I’d say.

      • Gordon

        Of course, THEY BUILT IT THEMSELVES.

      • Bill

        Good comments, Gordon
        Self employment, consultant and independent contractor are the only way to survive our future of anti business morons that are running the country

      • ranger09

        GM is at fault,The Govt is at Fault using taxpayers money to help failing companys, The govt is at fault for garbage spending,The govt is at fault for most all things. But the People are more at fault for letting these things Happen. We only get what we are asking for, Just follow the Bell.

      • Jana

        They helped the failing companies because of the Unions and cronyism.

    • Paul Wells

      Agreed. Here is a simple question for you. If you had been covered by the bargaining agreement that Hostess employees were covered by, would you have 1) saved your job by voting for the contract, knowing you were giving up some things, but would keep your job, or 2) faced certain unemployment by voting down the contract. I want to see how fair and balanced you really are.

      • ranger09

        Americans are just sheep< Following the Bell. No matter where it leads And most of all you can see this with govt Employees. They have become seperated from the general Public, they have become more like the Politicians, Get all you can get from the stupid people.The American People no longer control anything, They no longer have control over themselves.

    • Cliffystones

      Yes, thank you John.

      The problem with unions lies in big labor and the politics involved. I too worked in a Union at my Father’s company (where he worked for over 35 years). They were an independent union that had kicked out the AFL-CIO in the early 1960s because they were tired of paying dues to an organization the just took their money and gave them the shaft. And those folks had a great relationship with management. The rank-in-file would not support a “worker” who was caught trying to get out of living up to their end of the “collective bargain”. My dad was a Union Steward, and if they caught someone like the forklift operator who backed himself into a bunch of full pallets to sleep his shift away, they were out the door. Now days you can get stoned and drunk on your lunch break and still get your job back. Later I worked at companies where the unions were AFL-CIO and Teamsters and those folks took your money then smiled and waved as you were laid off. that is unless you had connections in the right places.

      I still believe that employees need representation that is honest and just. For those who say that the Government has laws now, since when did they ever do anything right? Unions should be local and composed of employees doing the work only. And they should be concerned only with ensuring that employees are treated with respect. We’ve all had or known someone who’s had a boss whose idea on managing was making his/her subordinated lives miserable.

      • Cliffystones

        I meant “subordinates”.

  • richard brooks

    like the other right to work states, there will be lots of part time minimum wage positions. more people will be employed. more people will be making less.

    it is interesting to read the philosophy of the low wage supporters. no one ever talks about the increasing wages and compensation that is paid to management, stockholders and owners. if low wages are the real answer to the current failing economy, why are the ones at the top demanding more. they should lead by example.

    if you support lower wages you should demand your employer reduce your wage.

    if you are an owner of a business, you should lower your prices, thereby reducing your income. remember, lower compensation will drive the economy.

    the low wage supporters have failed to comprehend that a customer is the one requirement of business. to be a customer requires disposable income. your low wage employees are no longer customers. don’t believe it? explain why products made in low wage country’s must be exported. those low wage workers are unable to purchase the products they produce. otherwise, china would be the largest customer base for business.

    the disparity between the rich and the rest of the population has never been as great since the early 1920′s.

    i am going to side with the ignorant gop sheep. it should be amusing to watch their reactions when they get exactly what they demanded.

    eliminate the unions. repeal the labor laws. let freedom reign. lol.

    • Jana

      Well you can thank Obama for that. He is supposed to be President of all of us, but he has decided he is only President of Democrats and Unions.

    • Bill

      If you are working a wage earning job, your real worry is from the work ethic of the immigrants. The progressives in government has stacked the deck against you. Not only are your taxes paying for welfare, food stamps and medical for illegals, they are a protected class of citizens that can out work you for cash and not pay any taxes.

      • eddie47d

        I have personally seen “illegals” work twice as hard as any American would so you are not totally right and very biased.

      • Jana

        That doesn’t surprise me eddie. Union workers are usually not hard workers.

      • eddie47d

        Lie much Jana?

  • teaparty13

    Just look at how the unions responded during hurricane Sandy, wouldn’t let non union electrical workers in to help restore power, I bet the folks that went without power for weeks are very happy with that union.. When I was working, had a closed shop, didn’t have to join the union, but still had to pay dues, only reason I joined. After 30+ yrs saw the union officers were only out for themselves, never had time for the workers until it was time for them to run again for office, then you saw them crawling outta the woodwork to get your vote.

    • eddie47d

      Oh bull pucky! Union and Non Union electrical workers went to the Northeast to help out. Even from as far away as Washington and Colorado through our Xcel utility company. I suppose either way you have to get nasty with the union workers who gave up their own family time to help out others. What a terrible thing to do!

    • Meteorlady

      Normally don’t agree with Eddie but they were allowed in. That was a false email per snopes. Not that I’m for unions, but truth and facts are just that.

      • Ann Francis

        Meteor, guess if snopes says something, I’d surely read carefully their wording and go to another source for verification.
        As I recall some non-union workers had been denied their wish to help out, then when heading back home they were told they could work.
        SOME were allowed to work -

    • Karolyn

      That false rumor was put to rest weeks ago.

  • Jimh

    As this nation was formed by our founding fathers, there was to be No One Above the Law. It did not say “except Union members, or Liberal Democrats, or Congress, or even the President”. It said NO ONE! Remember, the people of the United States will only tolerate so much before they take steps to remove people from office and pass laws disbanding organizations. If you don’t believe it, check out the membership numbers for the K.K.K. Keep pushing and you may get the people so disgusted that they will force action to be taken to correct this situation.

    • eddie47d

      You may be correct that is why we don’t want the Bain’s and Romney’s cannibalizing our jobs and sending them overseas for personal profits. The American people want honest CEOs who value their workers not the greedy takers who lately have spit down on them. The workers want value for the products they produce not arrogant CEOs taking those wages away. While management salaries and benefits have gone up in the last several years workers salaries and benefits have gone down. You do the math in who is shafting the workers and the economy.

      • Bill

        When govt mandates become too expensive for a business to afford, it will simply stop doing business here and do business overseas.

      • eddie47d

        CEOs have to continue living their lifestyle but refuse to take pay cuts. Only proves they are more concerned about themselves than those below them.

    • Kinetic1

      “If you don’t believe it, check out the membership numbers for the K.K.K.”
      Care to explain? From what I can see the number of clan chapters is down dramatically, but their membership is not. Seems that many of the chapters are just consolidating. On the other hand, other racist groups like the Aryan Nation seem to be doing better at recruiting young racists, so the clan has not grown lately. So what exactly was your point?

  • Steve E

    I’ll just sit back and watch the Blood Shedding from the comfort of my Right to Work State.

    • rb

      I’ll bet your gainfully employed at a job you can make a living at in your right to work state too. The last time I worked at a union job the union took 5% of my gross earnings for the priviledge. That was pretty small compared to what many unions take. It’s amazing how far that lower wage goes without a union tax tacked on.

      • Karolyn

        Uh, take a look at South Carolina, a right to work state, and see how low the wages are!

      • larry ryan

        Here’s question for you gouge the company types. Years and years ago wages were $1 per hour. A loaf of bread cost 5 cents or 1/20th of the hourly wage. Other prices for other things were similar. Now wages are $10 per hour and the unions want more. Bread costs $5 per loaf or 1/2 the hourly wage. Other things have similar price ratios. If the unions get their way and wages go up to $20 per hour but the price of bread goes to $12 per loaf. are we better or worse off than we were at $1 per hour?

  • ibcamn

    unions started as a good thing,looking out for worker safety and a fair wage for the work that employee did,for each employee!!then something sinister happened,GREED,then came CORRUPTION,it goes hand in hand,we all know it,but we let it go because you wanted to work so you didnt say a thing,then you got bullied into shutting up about it!you got bullied into voting a way you didn’t go along with,you leave evil alone to fester and this is what you get,todays union.nothing remotely close to what it was of old!the leaders brought in were insidiousely bent on rule the way they see fit.CROOKED,controlling and blood thirsty!todays union will suck the life out of all buisnesses it touches unless we control it,good for you mich., keep it up and we may soon see a union that is wanted by the people! union drunks build you’re cars today,labor unions everywhere should be proud of themselves!…I always wondered why Miss. Peterson(my teacher) smelt like my stepdad(he was a mean drunk) when i was young!..imagine all the paper that mills turned out with whiskey droplets on it!..thats another story!

  • eddie47d

    Remember years ago when Lee Iaccoca took one dollar in salary to make sure his auto company remained solvent. Steve Jobs did the for a couple of years and his company thrived. Nowadays CEOs are just plain selfish and greedy and some of you egg on their behavior. You claim that unions are thugs as their wages diminish all the while CEO wages are increasing. So who is the “thug”? The takers at the top are taking from the makers who work below them. That is the Orwellian world that so many of you are encouraging. The Hostess Company is a prime example where neither side saw the writing on the wall. Yet who demanded even higher bonuses? It was the Executives at the top who actually received automatic yearly increases. They made so much money the CEOs of Hostess told them to cash out when the stock was high because there would be plenty more in the years to come. In their latest demands they had the audacity to ask for $3-5 million each even as the company was imploding. The unions were never that demanding and never did get what was on the table. Now consider that the Hostess union workers a few years ago took a $10,000 decrease in their pay so they really didn’t get anything. Yet the Management were still receiving their bonuses while this was going on. When the company finally filed for bankruptcy those CEOs offered those management types most of their bonuses. How could they afford that or even consider doing it. Here’s the kicker! They raided the workers pension fund and will pay out of that thus leaving the workers with nothing! Corporate greed is king and they have their ways of winning no matter how many workers go down!

    • Paul Wells

      Eddie, explain to me why some union fat cat knocking down 7 figures for basically doing nothing is all that much different than the greedy pig capitalist CEO you always portray. I’d find I could agree with you occasionally if only you weren’t so completely one-sided about it. The reality of the situation is BOTH parties are culpable in this mess, but the problem of running a successful business is more complicated than either the union head or the CEO. Just for the record, I do NOT think a CEO needs to be knocking down 300 ~ 400 times the lowest waged worker, but that is for the board of directors to decide. The simple truth is, it takes everyone in a company to make it work. Having an us vs. them mentality is simply counter productive.

      • Jana

        Paul Wells,
        You said my sentiments exactly.Great Post!

      • eddie47d

        Which ones are knocking down 7 figures? Besides their salaries are paid by dues paying members not out of a companies pocket. If I want my $40 dollars a month to go for better benefits and decent pay then what is that to you. National union representatives do alot of traveling and are like a mini-CEO without the pay that they receive. Why do Corporates receive 8-10 figure salaries See the list that MOMO presented. I don’t think union officials receive near the money you think if that is what you are trying to get at. Then well talk about “fat cats”

    • momo

      Gee I wonder how much the union bosses make?

      I wonder when was the last time Trumka missed a meal?

  • Meteorlady

    If unions are so great, and represent so many people, why are they afraid of Right to Work laws? Maybe they fear loss of power and mostly the income that lets the biggies live lavishly while the rest of their minions labor to pay for them.

    • eddie47d

      I belonged to a large union for 40 years and the “biggies” never receives lavish incomes. Maybe we had a better working relationship with management and the unions. I also believe that a shop can be either a union shop or a non union shop. ( The Right To Work). If a union is voted in and a workers benefits are arrived because of the union then all workers should pay into said union to receive that benefit. Nothing unfair about that and you pay for what you get. Most companies in America don’t need unions such as Microsoft and Apple but there are still plenty that do. Right To Work laws box workers in who are then forced to accept low wages and weak benefits without any recoarse.

      • Jana

        eddie, what was the name of your union?

      • eddie47d

        Everyone here knows I make $36,000 a year and am retired. I’d like a few of you folks to divulge some information too but I never get it. I was born in Illinois and have lived in Colorado since 1968. That is 4 times the information I’ve seen from anybody here and I’ve never hidden it. Now Jana you tell me a little bit about yourself and where you worked and how much you make so this can be a fair game. Then I will gladly go from there. That goes for anyone who demands personal information but you hear crickets from themselves.

    • Jana

      Wow eddie, I didn’t ask for your life story. I asked you one simple question and you refuse to say so, you must be very ashamed of the union you were enslaved to.

      • Jana

        or, greatly embelishing it. A polite word for lieing again!

  • T. Jefferson

    For a bunch of so called pacifist, the democratic party sure like violence. Tea Party and conservative gatherings never devolve into riots or leave the area trashed. Liberal or democrat gatherings often devolve into riots resulting in business and personal property damage.


    This open display of union thuggery is not the first but it is the best example yet of just how this administration and the Jackkass Party are going to do biz in the coming months. This is not about union rights, negotiations or right to work, it is about money laundering for the left side of the aisle by a communist lead union to extort money from their members and continue to fund the leftist politicians campaign support. The left understands the union membership is drying up, a long time gold mine is going south, they are making the last ditch effort to intimidate, extort and hammer any and all who oppse them with the show of union thuggs at the forefront.
    If we manage to rid ourselves of the progressive tax and replace it with a national sales tax, then push hard for term limits salary only, no retirement, WTP will have effectively throttled the lefts money supply, the use of tax discrimination and class warfare. The left is going to put up one hell of a fight over entitlements because it will be all they have left on the table that is a income source and a way to sucker punch the ill informed. That 47% that they lay claim to by non income tax payers will disappear when everyone pays the same national sales tax……..

  • MI Patriot

    The “there will be blood” comment was made by Dem on the floor of the Senate chambers. He said it during the comment section. His name is Geiss. Actually ALL the Dems in the chambers were pretty much foaming at the mouth, but he’s the only one who actually said anything about blood and direct violence.

    • eddie47d

      Your no Patriot for Geiss said just the opposite of what you are saying and actually called for no violence. His direct words are on the net for all to see.

  • Karolyn

    OMG! When you have to use tweets to get a point across it’s pretty sad! :-) I can just imagine what it’s like to pour over Facebook and Twitter to find anything that sounds remotely irrational, not even knowing who the poster is!

  • NOW2 taxes

    To the Jesse Jackson folk out there, that corporations are evil. Don,t forget the Workers Party created by Stalin, just so you can get your cut. Don,t forget the brownshirts, million man army with the Boots on the ground, Lenin. You are here today.

  • SJJolly

    Tag line on the column, above: “From the Asylum” Apt.

    • SJJolly

      Correction: Tagline is “Outside the Asylum.” Reads like one written by someone inside one.

  • jopa

    I just saw the clip of the Fox news contributor/comedian pushing that old union guy down and the union guy got up and kicked his arse.That was probably the funniest gig that comedian did and didn’t realize it in his search to make and not report the news.That was just too precious when you get to see the full version of the tape of what really went down.LMAO.

  • Marvinas2

    No matter which side of this issue you support, you have to question why the police did not protect the people or the property being vandalized by the goons in the crowd. They spent most of the day destroying the tent and the business of the hot dog vendor. Why were there no arrests? Is it possible the police union was intimidated by the crowd and afraid of later consequences from the unions?

  • jopa

    Marvin;Read your comment and then tell me why it takes almost a whole day to destroy a tent and a hot dog cart.Are you just trying to make something out of nothing or what is it you are trying to say.Someone probably tripped on one of the tent ropes or kicked a stake accidentally and the tent fell over.Then Fox news would call this an air strike with B52s and massive casualties.The video actually shows the Fox reporter trying to create a story by pushing down an old guy in the crowd and the old guy came back and fed him a knuckle sandwich for lunch.The Fox news contributor/comedian was on Hannity and one could see by his expressions and body language he was on the losing side of this argument.He made a total fool of himself.

  • Benjamin Fox

    eddie 47 ways to be a commie, at his left wing crude again. I have been a member of many unions and they never did anything for those who did their job, only those who screwed up, use to steal from the companies and wouldn’t do the job and when confronted, they would take it out on the company and that is a fact, commie eddie and your dream world. The unions are thugs, liars and should be done away with. They were once good and then they went off the cliff of evil.

    • Jana

      Benjamin Fox,
      Well said.

    • Paul Wells

      I agree with Jana, well said, and all true. Isn’t it interesting in life that the pendulum swings too far one way, then eventually the other. While the unions did a lot of good at the turn of the century into 1900, they went off the rails a scant 80 years later, and now are in their glory, with a pretender-in-chief that will meet with union thug bosses, before he’ll meet with an Israeli PM. Pretty much tells you where this country is headed.

  • Charles Higgins (@HigginsCharles)

    When we talk of banks screwing the American people we have to look at policies they are forced to fallow as a result of Federal Law.

    The government forced them to open the gates to home ownership. But people who could not afford houses bought into the system and then defaulted leaving the banks with real estate to dispose of, often forcing them to sell them well below market.

    My wife demanded we buy a home when we moved to Des Moines. We had a bankruptcy back in 92 that was still on the record in 1999. So we had a double digit interest mortgage. When I was incarcerated my wife could not maintain the loan payments and went into default which lead to forcloesure…

    I tried to get my family to live in an apartment until the bankruptcy went off the credit reports but my wife demanded we buy a home right away. I will admit I went along with her voluntarily so it was my own fault. The bank was simply trying to cover their own losses.

    Credit card interest is high because so many people default on them. When we take personal responsibility for what we do we will keep our word and pay our contracted obligations. The banks had trouble because so many people did not.

    Obana is only increasing the likelihood of a default of the federal government by printing money beyond the nation’s productivity which will lead to inflation.

    Personal Liberty means Personal Responsibility. No business is TOO BIG TO FAIL. If GM and Chrysler could not survive then they should have declared bankruptcy. They could sell out to any number of Japanese, Korean or European auto makers and maintained jobs. The UAW is less relevant today because cars are mostly built by automatic robots. We need programmers and techs more than people to drive screws and tighten bolts.

    When I worked at Rockwell Collins I joined the Union and was booed when I ask the union management to ruduce their demands for increased pay and benefits as the pay and benefits were quite enough as it was. They persisted in the demand for more. I was laid off within 6 months of the ratification of that contract. So did the union hardliners do me any good. I don’t thnk so.

  • Don

    all you people siding up with hostess needs to go to bctgm website and look up the la times article hiltzik: poor management, not union intransigence, killed hostess. also read the article from the hostess news magazine on: hostess union member strength and solidarity define hostess strike. i was one of the workers who went out. i figured out what id lose if we would have taken their offer. it came out to around 10,000 a year before taxes. i made $32,000 last year. i do not have a working spouse and its hard to live and pay bills at times on that. we were supposed to have double health care costs, an8% cut in pay, a 5 year wage freeze with a very small payback every year. the bunch who decided this gave them selves huge pay raises before filing for bankrupsy again. the ceo gave himself a 300% raise in salary with the 20 or so at the top betting about 50 to 80% raises too. the judge shot it down. then they came after us. must be nice to reward yourself for failure. kinda reminds me of our government in dc. we struck and they went into liquidation. the judge rewarded them 1.5 mil to handle liquidation. more reward for failure. please check out the 2 article i l listed above. i’m sure a lot of you would see a different light.

    • Paul Wells

      Don, I’m sure your points are well taken. Here is a simple question: Are you going to be better off without a job, then with a job, even with the pay cuts? I think if it were my choice to make, I’d have swallowed by pride, voted for the offer, then immediately started looking for another job. I don’t blame the union (solely) for this, and there are ample examples of greed at the top contributing to problems such as this. Neither though, do I blame the company, I believe there are always two sides to every story. News stories don’t interest me, they have a built in bias, and that is to sell news stories, and they love to play the “ain’t it awful” game. The truth kind of gets lost in the shuffle.

      I wish you well in finding new employment.

      • Jana

        Paul, You would vote for the job and then start looking for another one, because that is the smart and wise thing to do. Don bit his own nose off to spite his face, as the old saying goes.

      • Don

        i don’t have much time. i’m 61 years old. i wonder if i’d get hired because of my age. i’m probly in as good a shape as most 30 year olds. working my ass off for 23 years at ibp, inc the beef company and 17 years at hostess brands helped me stay in shape. i am probly vested about 90% in the pension. we had to put that management out of business. why let the greed win. what happens if we took the great robbery that they would have forced on us let them rob us for a few years and they’d be back for more. thats the bad thing about this country anymore. greed is winning.


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