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An Answer To The Most Popular “End Of America” Question

February 18, 2011 by  

An Answer To The Most Popular “End Of America” Question

I’ve been on the radio a few times in the last month. Producers are contacting us with interview requests because of our new promotional video, "The End of America."

I imagine most DailyWealth readers have seen this video already. You know the core components of our argument: The debts assumed by the Western democracies will overwhelm their economies and lead to the end of our current dollar-denominated, global currency regime. This has profound implications for Americans’ standard of living and our empire’s role in the world.

Doing these interviews and taking call-in questions from people around the country reminds me of why we made the video: People suffer from a shocking lack of knowledge about the serious financial problems facing our country. For example, the most popular question is: "When will the crisis begin?"

The question assumes we ought to ignore the collapse of the automakers, the complete destruction of America’s investment banks, the receivership of the world’s largest mortgage firms (Fannie and Freddie) and the world’s biggest insurance company (AIG)…

The question implies nothing unusual has taken place with housing prices… or in the markets for strategic commodities like lithium, copper, oil, coal and corn — all of which are soaring in the face of the moribund U.S. economy. The question assumes nothing is going on with the value of our dollar, despite silver trading near $30 and gold trading close to $1,500 — up 100 percent in only two years.

We respond to the popular question with a question of our own: What will have to happen before you’ll say we’re in a crisis right now?

How high will gas prices have to get before your neighbors notice something is wrong? How high will gold have to get? Or silver? How many banks will have to go under? How high will unemployment have to rise? How many cities will have to go bankrupt? Where’s your threshold? How bad will things have to be before you begin to see what’s really happening?

In addition to raising these questions, I’ve compiled a list of seven key facts that might spring people into taking action to protect themselves. They are the factors I believe MUST lead to the end of the global U.S. dollar standard — what we call "The End of America."

1) The price of gold has gone up 10 years in a row. We can’t think of another market that’s ever risen for 10 consecutive years. This is a historical anomaly and it means something has gone badly wrong with the world’s reserve currency (the U.S. dollar). Markets, if left to find their own equilibrium, will naturally fluctuate. Gold isn’t fluctuating. Its steady move up proves something strange is happening to our money.

2) Our government’s deficits are out of control. The government’s annual deficits now routinely surpass $1 trillion. The first $1 trillion deficit came in 2008 — and the government explained it away as the consequence of the financial crisis. But we racked up another $1 trillion deficit in 2009 and yet another in 2010.

We’ll have another in 2011 and so on. Our national debt has doubled since 2005. We’ve borrowed more money in the last five years than we had in the entire history of our government until then. This isn’t sustainable.

3) The government cannot increase tax revenues enough to cover our spending or repay our debts — ever. Our annual deficits have become completely unlinked to taxes. Total Federal income taxes and corporate taxes generate $1.1 trillion a year in revenue, and we still ran a $1.3 trillion Federal deficit last year. So even if we increased tax revenues by 100 percent, we would still have fallen $200 million short. This is totally unsustainable.

4) Special-interest groups — particularly government unions — are looting our Treasury. Self-serving special-interest groups have completely hijacked government spending. We now spend $200 billion a year on Federal pensions. We’re spending another $450 billion on welfare. This spending, combined with our defense spending ($700 billion), exceeds total Federal tax revenue and leaves nothing to pay the $200 billion in interest on our debt, nothing to pay for actual government services (like roads), and nothing to pay towards the inevitable Social Security/Medicare shortfall.

Remember… most voters do not pay taxes. It’s politically impossible to reform this interest group-based spending. These people are robbing the Treasury. They will cause our currency and eventually our government itself to collapse.

5) We’re printing money just like the banana republics we used to mock. To support the government’s runaway spending, the Federal Reserve is now continuously buying government debt. This process was commonly called "monetizing the debt" or, more simply, "printing money."

In addition to the inevitable economic consequences of monetizing debt (massive inflation), there’s another, even more serious problem: a lack of confidence in the leadership of the Fed. We would support an audit of the Fed. We would support replacing Fed Chairman Ben Bernanke. After all, Bernanke has alternately defended his decision to print massive quantities of new money and denied ever doing it. However, we are certainly aware that as people (rightly) lose confidence in the Fed and in the dollar, there will be serious consequences for our economy.

6) We can’t repay our debts. Total debt outstanding in the U.S. currently exceeds $55 trillion. That’s $681,165 in debt per U.S. family. There is simply no way to repay (or even maintain) debt of this magnitude using the income of the average American family, which is slightly less than $50,000 per family per year. Interest alone on these debts (based on a 5 percent rate) would total $34,000 per family every year. Total debt in the U.S. economy is unsustainable and can’t be financed without printing vast new sums of money.

7) Shockingly, new debt issuance in the U.S. is soaring, with the lowest-quality debtors borrowing record amounts. Despite all the evidence that the U.S. economy carries far too much debt, both public and private debt issuance soared to new record levels in 2010. Overall, more than $3 trillion in new corporate debt was issued last year — the second record year in a row.

And junk-bond issuance set a new, vastly higher record. In 2010, 509 speculative-grade corporate borrowers sold $287 billion worth of new debt. That compares to the previous record (2009) of $167 billion. Our economy has become so warped by its debt load, it cannot function without ever-larger amounts of debt.

In summary, anyone who carefully looks at these numbers must realize this is not safe and will not last long. That’s why I’m telling everyone: Don’t ask, "When will the crisis begin?" Instead, ask, "Where can I get the best deal on gold and silver bullion to protect my family’s finances?"

Good investing,

Porter Stansberry

–Porter Stansberry with Braden Copeland

P.S. Please carefully think about the facts I list above. Like it or not, these issues are going to affect you and your family in the months and years ahead. Ignoring this problem will not protect you from it. What do I think people should do right now to protect themselves? Watch this video, for free, to find out.

Porter Stansberry

founded Stansberry & Associates Investment Research, a private publishing company based in Baltimore, Md., in 1999. His monthly newsletter, Stansberry's Investment Advisory, deals with safe value investments poised to give subscribers years of exceptional returns. Porter oversees a staff of investment analysts whose expertise ranges from value investing to insider trading to short selling. Together, Porter and his research team do exhaustive amounts of real-world, independent research. They've visited more than 200 companies in order to find the best low-risk investments in the world.

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  • Give me a Break!

    I don’t know about investing in gold and silver, but I do know that we as American citizens can’t sit on our thumbs and hope some legendary savior is going to come and save our economy. The current administration and most of or government leaders have no intention of saving whats left, and only a chosen few (mainly those elected who represented the Tea party) have and will continue to make the changes necessary to bring this massive debt to a halt. In the mean time we as Americans need to stop listening to the Liberal/Progressive ideas and arguments, which mean nothing, and put every once of support we can muster into our newly elected representatives. Slowly I see more of even the so-called rhinos in the Republican party start to follow these newbies and stand against the tyrants taking money and rights away from us. It will take all of us with a complete change of attitude and opinion to support and help these few leaders defeat Social/Liberalism that’s going on in this country today. Enough of politics and political correctness, we simply cannot go in this direction any longer! This is what we have to do, nothing else will save us, not even buying all the silver and gold in the world, if we no longer have a free country to save it in.

    • Vigilant

      “How bad will things have to be before you begin to see what’s really happening?”

      Most of the general public are isolated, more or less, from the changes that are taking place in money markets, fiscal and monetary policy. The “rob Peter to pay Paul” shell game played by the government is approaching a tipping point, and most won’t even know the extent of the problem until it’s too late.

      After all, do you see fewer cars on the road? Are the parking lots at shopping malls experiencing vacancy problems? Are there food shortages yet? Have the soup and bread lines increased?

      No, this materialistic public continues blithely on its way while venal politicians create and maintain dependencies to sustain their power over the people. As long as the “bread and circus” continue, without too much pain from the taxman, the electorate will remain blind to the cynical and dangerous game being played on them.

      It will only be after the public unions topple a few state governments, taxes and energy costs skyrocket and food prices spin out of control that the man on the street will begin to really feel the pain. When that happens, the real beginning of the end will occur.

      As a Deist, I’m not overly fond of quoting the Bible, but Proverbs 11:29 seems particularly appropriate to the situation of our government “leaders”: He that troubles his own house shall inherit the wind: and the fool shall be servant to the wise of heart.

      • Cawmun Cents

        Mr Deist,you may want to read the words of Christ who claimed that things would be”business as usual”when he returns.Things are business as usual right now arent they?Food for thought….

        • Erik

          According to your bible, Jesus was supposed to return 2000 years ago. Xians have been yammering about the imminent return for 2000 years.
          Have you even considered the possibility that your bible is nothing more than a collection of fairy stories concocted to keep the ignorant peasants in line?

          • bob wire

            Well yea,? not fairy tales ~ but both true & fiction tales, rules AND guidelines for living a “full rich” life of a human being and being all one might hope to be on the physical plane.

            I enjoyed the many stories, ~ they are teaching aids and for a reason. The meaning of them not always clear or obvious and requiring considerable thought.

            But yes, people get lost in the text and loose focus and the study of the bible.

            That many do, does not mean everyone does or diminishes the value of the book.

            All books of knowledge suffer this same fate, do they not?

          • Pete


            The Archons want you to not believe the Bible. The Archons want you to be a “Deist” (whatever that is ! HA HA!) ..

          • Lewis Munn


            Your ignorance of the Bible is appalling!

            It plainly states that none will know the times, but to be vigilant for the signs listed, and be prepared.

            It is too bad you go on somebody’s distortions, rather than reading the Bible itself to see what it really says.

            You may want to compare what is happening now to the predictions of things presaging the end of our world as we know it. Interesting to see things coming true, and speculate on others we cannot know yet for sure.

            Have you checked to see the woes predicted for the West? I suggest you get the Lamsa Translation from the Aramaic as it is easier to read and is from texts that are uncorrupted by Western church politics over the centuries.

            On the other hand, you may enjoy being ignorant?

      • Bill Rogeo

        The present economic mess affects us all in a very immediate way and the American public has a right to know how we got to this point! Anything congress/Obama/FED does will only make things worse in the long term. Government undertakings always backfire with catastrophic results. Beware of the unintended consequences.
        Who will control the nation’s economy, the politicians? You’ll never see more corruption and the throwing away of a country’s economic system so quickly than ever before.
        Every single day it becomes more apparent that President Obama was not ready to lead this country. His “vision” for America has put us deeper into a hole, and is attempting to make everyone, the States and the citizens, more dependent on the Federal Gov’t, and we cannot let this happen. We lose our options, when the Fed is calling all the shots.

        • Void1972

          No matter which way you slice it or dice it, the “men at the top,” the mind controllers, the master planners, the plotters, those who write the script for every act of aggression that they perpetrate upon the citizens of this country have entrapped all of us in an “illusion,” in a fairy tale in a tangled web of deceit from cradle, but hopefully not to our grave.
          They are the orchestrators, the directors and the
          producers in the “theatre of operations.” They use unwitting and witting operatives as actors and
          actresses. They stage their events with great detail,thought and after years, sometimes decades of planning.
          We, the people, have become a passive and suggestive audience to their liking through the “covert” use of chemical agents, repetition, distraction and we are now all “slaves” to the fast-paced world they have thrust upon us through high-tech technology.
          In order to affect social change, people must be
          “programmed” to a new way of thinking, acting and
          behaving and a movement must be deployed. This is
          called Social Engineering and the “think tanks” behind these psychological operations, such as the
          Psychological Strategy Board are responsible for these operations. The two most crucial senses, sight and sound; what we see and what we hear is in their hands.

          Behavioral Science is not just the study of mice, but of mice and men. They know, through the study of individuals incarcerated unwittingly in mind control programs exactly what makes us tick.
          You can call it Fascism, racism, socialism, communism, but the government that serves the American people,serves the world, is anything but a democracy.
          The threat of America being taken over by communist Russia was a “hoax.” The communist dictators, the fascist rulers are the men who lurk in the shadows.
          The men behind the curtains who reside on the PNAC,the CFR are part of the “secret government” that controls our leaders. They are the puppetmasters and those in the front acting as our leaders are merely their puppets. Pull their strings and watch them move like a marionette for them just as they are “conditioned” to do.

        • RonaldL

          I believe there is some sort of conspiracy in destroying U.S economy. The New World order is coming in a word; I think we do not wish to.

          • Pete

            Yeah their is, these evil men/women are taking orders from the “Archon” who is over the United Sates. As we become less and less “CHristian” we will become more and more stupid. Part of the stupidness is 1) you think it’s all philosophical but not theological in causation and 2) Some jerk with an IQ of 91 is trying to explain it to you, but you can’t fill in the blanks ….

            The Archon is taking control. As CHristians shrink in number, so will your freedoms …

        • Tex

          Obama has nothing to do with the problem per se; just as no other single president has had anything to do with the problem. All politicians are being told what to do by the corporate donors who fund their campaigns and create their political careers by making such funding available to them. They are political puppets who are being led around by the nose. This is why the end result of every administration is the same; more debt, more government spending and less value for the average taxpayer in terms of the benefit they receive for the taxes they pay.

          The central issue is that the taxpayer is not supposed to benefit under a plutocracy. The benefactors are only meant to be the plutocrats themselves. Anyone reading this is by definition a servant of the empire; not a recipient of the empire’s largess.

          Some political figures are indeed closer to the seat of power within the plutocracy, as was the case with G. Bush senior; but none are the emperor’s themselves.

          The only answer is systemic reform which includes rethinking the very core of our system of government; including the Constitution, our court system and most importantly our monetary and banking systems.

          The problem is that every group who advocates any such reform is really only interested in seeing their special interest agenda embodied as the law of the land. Most have no social consciousness and are not the least bit concerned with humanity, culture or the civility of society as a whole.

          • Lewis Munn

            Are you saying we cannot know what is going on, and there is no way to fight it, just roll over and enjoy playing dead?

      • Lewis Munn

        The Bible contains a lot of wisdom! Quoting it appropriately is not unwise.

        I as a retiree am seeing the problem, as my utility bill has doubled already, and is supposed to double 4 more times, under the government regulations. Means just my utilities will be several times my income from the SS the government took from me when I was still employed!!

        I cannot afford to redo my partially-earth-sheltered home, which is not fancy. But, neither electricity nor LP gas for heating is really affordable now, and will be even lest by next winter.

        Meanwhile, Obama has frozen the already small SS payments to pay illegals and those who choose not to find some employment. And the government afflicts the companies that otherwise would provide employment. And brings in hordes of families of illegal immigrants, in various ways, and encourages them to be militant and us as citizens to shut up about our needs, or else!

        The bible predicts this, and has some wisdom as to measures to take, tho one has to have money, and that is hard to find.

        I am afraid all the dumbing down of our people, and failure of the public schools to teach prudent citizenship, has tipped us over the edge, and my children will suffer for the pleasures of the government and its supporters.

      • http://Illinois'17th Old Henry


        WEll put. However, I do not think the “government” is playing a game. I think it is, and has been, a programmed set of events that began in ernest near the turn of the 20th Centrury.

        The one thing that We the People have in our favor over all other peoples is the fact that we are armed to the teeth.

    • Jovianus

      Well y’know…you cheered when the special tax breaks were continued to the wealthy this December. You had no fault finding as the past administration decimated a budget headed towards a real and actual surplus. You had no problem with the budget gimmicks employed by Bush and the GOp putting two wars outside of the budget figures to disuise what was really the shape they were putting us into. And no one from the Right screamed as deregulation and unfunded mandates were issued by the administration and the Conservatives taking more federal control than ever in our history.

      The solution is simple. Wipe out the unfunded mandates, subsidies, and tax breaks given by the last administration. Cut military spending, slash corporate subsidies and tax breaks, quit the funding outsourcing of jobs overseas, and modernize.

      Then getting the rest of the budget expenses under better control will be easy since we will be well on the way to getting the deficits handled.

      Democrats didn’t put us in this situation. Social programs such as SSI, medicare, medicaid, etc didn’t put us in this situation. Conservative policies put us in this situation. That’s plain and simple fact.

      • Bitter Libertarian

        There is tons of proof that Both parties are to blame equally. NEITHER Party has ANY innocense in this matter.

        • Jovianus

          I know..and only Demcorats tax and spend. uh huh. Equal my as*. Who brought us to the edge of a real budget surplus in 2000 ? And who raped it giving away the farm to the wealthy and having TWO unfunded wars? And who gave out all those unfunded mandates in the first six years ofthis century?

          Yeah … sure it’s equal.

          • JC

            Off topic, uncalled for and blind as a bat.
            Must be a liberal.

          • Bitter Libertarian

            The Dems ARE equally responsible. After all if they had done a proper Constitutional Job over the past 50 years there could be no complaints. However neither party respects or abides by the Constitution. Neither party did ANYTHING about the ILLEGAL FED, so yes, I am Correct when I say they are equal.
            I believe that as the republicans gave our money to Banks in Round 1, democrats gave more in round 2. Republicans went for Illegal wars, and Democrats gave away our jobs with NAFTA & GAFT, FREE TRADE. Republicans love Corporate Welfare, democrats love people welfare. Republicans love tax breaks for the rich, Democrats love wallet plunder to give tax money away..yes equal in so many respects these pages aren’t enough or worth the effort..
            If I have to explain you wouldn’t understand.

          • Bruce D.

            The chart we were shown in the post last week showed debt increasing under Clinton prior to 2000. Bush was an ideological traitor to enact Medicaid and not veto any spending bills. With Obama(almost 5 trillion dollars in three years) goes way beyond traitor into the realm of open warfare on the United States.

          • http://?? Joe H.

            If you would check the record, you might find out the truth behind your claim. Permission to go to war was given by congress and dam near just as many dems voted FOR it as repubs!!! Even ex-pres Clintoon and MR Clintoon, went on record as saying Saddam HAD WMDS!!!

          • Pete

            The Archon did. He told Bush what to do just as He tells Obama …

          • Jovianus

            JC…the article was about the US and world economies tanking. I spoke of how to get the deficits controlled.

            Je H. I never said anything about how Bush and his cronies lied us into war (as Rumsfeld admitted in his new book)…I spoke of how they didn’t shw it in the bdget numbers…as they continued to feed more and more to the wealthy and ensure we’d be paying for it.

            As for some sayig Obama has had three budgets…try again, he has had two. And no one came up wth anything else he could have done to kck start us out of the recession the Conservatives drove us into with a broken banking system and no room to manuever as it raped us.

            I loove the GOP way of cutting. Not the welfare programs for the rich and wealthy, not the unfunded mandates they created during the Bush years, nope. They’re going after the very programs which support the working man in this country.

          • JC

            Jovianus says:
            February 18, 2011 at 12:00 pm
            I know..and only Demcorats tax and spend. uh huh. Equal my as*. Who brought us to the edge of a real budget surplus in 2000 ? And who raped it giving away the farm to the wealthy and having TWO unfunded wars? And who gave out all those unfunded mandates in the first six years ofthis century?

            Yeah … sure it’s equal.

            Excuse me? Where in that comment did you talk about how to get the deficit under control? Nope, you were merely doing what liberals (socialists) do best. Slinging biased half truths around in an attmpt to obfuscate the issue and keep your ridiculous baseless arguments on the table. A complete waste of time.

          • bob wire

            So we are carrying on a conversation as to whom was the most to blame?

            That Clinton might have agreed Saddam held WMD or that the 110th congress backed a GOP president after 9-11 with military action with bogus intel. ~ They are all “equally” guilty?

            Okay, I seen how this is being played out and would expect no less from men I was having bar fights with over this as they supported 43 and called me unchristian,un-American and threaten me with going to their car to get their guns. I’m no stranger to heated discussion, asphalt rash, bruises and loose teeth.

            I understand, ~ you want to defer blame, as today it’s just too large a turd for you to lift by yourselves, you want some company!

            This is an old fight with me,~ many of you are talking just as foolishly as you were back in 2003. You haven’t learned a thing from all your mistakes but actually expect the rest of us share them.

            That my nation is 10 years into a war to no where and has had to borrowed and leveraged to the hilt to do this, you continue! I too must PAY and live with the humiliation, ~while~ you still choice to be crass and defiant as ever, like being stupid is some kind of virtue.

            I’m sorry you were gullible and deceived, that your honor and trust was poorly placed and then violated! But hey! I was out numbered, out shouted and out voted. It happens! The system is not perfect. The loudest won!

            But don’t think for one minute I’ll ever forget how wrong you were back then and forgive me for not trusting your judgment today.

            You people have been wrong too many time to ever be trusted by this man for the rest of my natural life.

            Now if that rings sour to your ears, ~ it’s up to you to get over it.

            In Ones greatest strength lies ones greatest weakness.

            I don’t entertain stalemates. Win it or leave it be. There is on other options worthy consideration. When will we ever learn?

        • Vigilant

          Absolutely true. Too bad the liberals like Jovianus are so blinded by their hatred of Bush (Bush derangement syndrome, it’s truly a mental aberration) that they’ll always support socialism and decry the values promulgated by the Founding Fathers.

          Jovianus’ screed simply shows him up for what he is.

          • Jovianus

            Vigilant..when you refer to the “Founding Fathers”, are you referring to those signing the Dec of Independence, those involved in drafting the DofI, the Continental Congress (First or Second), the Confederate Congress or the First Congress?

            As far as your claim about ‘hate Bush’ syndrome. Facts are facts. Which ones are you disagreeing with? And what of my proposals are you in disagreement with?
            Or are you going to label without reason and then make sweeping irrationsal statements like ‘cut welfare, wipe out the EPA, etc” … simply because you have no clue and just want to spout off huffing and puffing with a false and shallow appearance of self importance?

          • Vigilant

            Sonny, if you don’t even know who the Founding Fathers were, you’re not qualified to post on this site.

          • Jovianus

            Vigilant…too funny when you can’t cite the “Founding Fathers” which you constantly refer to. I’ve asked that question every time in real life when someone refers to “Founding Fathers”. A blank stare of incomprehension follows. And they stammer back with something like what Vigilant tried.

            You cite the “Founding Fathers” and you can’t even tell us who you are referring to. Jeesh…

            Let me guess…anyone from the past who you can find a good quote to use…

          • Vigilant

            I felt no one was so ignorant as to not know who the Founding Fathers were. If you had half a brain, you’d see my many posts in which I refer to the Founders by name.

            You, my friend, are in dire need of an American History course. If you don’t know who the Founders were, your posts are “full of sound and fury, signifying nothing.”

          • JeffH

            Vigilant, they never cease with their Marxist tactics do they?

          • JC

            The unanimous Declaration of the thirteen united States of America, When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature’s God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation. We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. –That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, –That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government…

            These are the signatories of the Declaration. The men who pledges their lives their fortunes, lands and future on the premise that freedom and liberty were worth fighting for.

            They rpresent all that is just and noble in a free society.

            Founding Fathers:
            John Adams
            Samuel Adams
            Josiah Bartlett
            Carter Braxton
            Charles Carroll
            Samuel Chase
            Abraham Clark
            George Clymer
            William Ellery
            William Floyd
            Benjamin Franklin
            Elbridge Gerry
            Button Gwinnett
            Lyman Hall
            John Hancock
            Benjamin Harrison
            John Hart
            Joseph Hewes
            Thomas Heyward, Jr.
            William Hooper
            Stephen Hopkins
            Francis Hopkinson
            Samuel Huntington
            Thomas Jefferson
            Francis Lightfoot Lee
            Richard Henry Lee
            Francis Lewis
            Philip Livingston
            Thomas Lynch, Jr.
            Thomas McKean
            Arthur Middleton
            Lewis Morris
            Robert Morris
            John Morton
            Thomas Nelson, Jr.
            William Paca
            Robert Treat Paine
            John Penn
            George Read
            Caesar Rodney
            George Ross
            Benjamin Rush
            Edward Rutledge
            Roger Sherman
            James Smith
            Richard Stockton
            Thomas Stone
            George Taylor
            Matthew Thornton
            George Walton
            William Whipple
            William Williams
            James Wilson
            John Witherspoon
            Oliver Wolcott
            George Wythe
            Charles Thomson

            And for you Jovianus, one of my favorite quotes. It suits you and the other “progressives” perfectly.

            “If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!”

        • Vigilant

          Clarification: My “absolutely true” comment was for Bitter Libertarian, not the communist who followed his reply.

      • marvin

        at the end of 1999 we had a 5 trillion dollar dept no surplus in 2006 when the dems took over both houses 8 trillion in 2011 14.5 trillion only the facts just the facts not a liberal pipe dream

      • S.C.Murf

        jovbob, you are a FOOL. How can you lay there and say it’s all one party’s fault when this crap has been going on for decades? You think that SSI went broke over night? You really need to make that popping sound, your lips are turning blue from a lack of oxygen!

        • http://?? Joe H.

          S C Murf
          while I agree with your point that is is the fault of both parties, I would like to post a letter from W. Lee Hammond, the president of AARP about Social Security.
          Q. Is it true Social Security has contributed to the huge federal budget deficit?
          Lee Hammond,
          No social Security operates at a surplus and has not contributed one dime to our nations budget deficit.
          Even in the current recession, the Social Security Trust Funds have continued to grow. In addition, Social Security benefits are already modest. The average retirement benefit is only about 14,000 dollars a yearand , for women the average comes to less than 12,000 dollars a year. What is there to cut? And despite the scaremongering, Social security is NOT “Going Broke”. Even without any changes at all, social Security could pay out full benefits until 2037. It will only take modest changes to ensure that Social Security remains strong for us, our children, and grandchildren.
          This excerpt is fron the AARP magazine, Jan-Feb issue under Ask Lee! I would say one of the “modest” changes that have to be made is insure that the GOVERNMENT KEEPS THEIR DAMN HANDS OFF OF IT!!!!

          • http://deleted Claire

            JoeH–Yes, the gopvernment should keep their thieving hands out of Social Security. I agree with your post.

          • http://deleted Claire

            “government” It has been a long day!

        • Jovianus

          SC…SSI isn’t broke. That’s a myth.

          And the way the Conservaives and the non progressives see to fix it? Raise the age of eligibility. So some poor working slob with a broken body after years of hard work…has to struggle with that broken body to scratch out a few more years…and if lucky live long enough to collect.

          The working man’s average lifespan is much less than a white collar. Look it up. Raising the age for SSI alomst guarantees those that worked blue collar don’t collect. Just another Conservative Way to screw Americans….

          • Warrior

            Tell us oh bright one, where is the SSI fund kept?

          • independant thinker

            Jovianus, as usual, posts much critisism with absolutely no solution mentioned not even an unrealistic one.

          • Jovianus

            Independent Thibnker…nice moniker for someone who can only cut and paste the responses from the non Conservatives on this Board and then claim it’s the “other side’ who doesn’t propose solutios.

            When you ever do have an Independent thought…be sure and let everyone know. It’d be a first ….

          • independant thinker

            Jovianus…………Show us from where I cut a pasted the above comment to which you replied.

          • JC

            Jovianus says:
            February 19, 2011 at 9:10 am
            SC…SSI isn’t broke. That’s a myth.

            And the way the Conservaives and the non progressives see to fix it? Raise the age of eligibility. So some poor working slob with a broken body after years of hard work…has to struggle with that broken body to scratch out a few more years…and if lucky live long enough to collect.

            The working man’s average lifespan is much less than a white collar. Look it up. Raising the age for SSI alomst guarantees those that worked blue collar don’t collect. Just another Conservative Way to screw Americans….


            It’s that kind of absolutely blind and biased comment that removes you from the realm of having any credibility whatsoever.
            SSI Isn’t Broke? Of course it isn’t “broke”, it’s a ponzi scheme created with imaginary money…they just print more monopoly money and voila! Then they hand the bill to Americans yet unborn.

            And according to you…whenever Democrats are in power America is Shangri-La…a worker’s paradise.
            But when Republicans are in power well, we have a living hell of racism, greed, murder and mayhem…

            You really are on your own little planet aren’t you?

      • fanofthefounders

        As usual the lib has it almost entirely wrong. Progressives and Marxist Progressives from both parties have been putting nails in the US economy’s coffin for the last 100 yrs. The only difference now is Obama’s using a nail gun instead of a hammer. The Fed gov’t should not be confinscating income and redistributing it to anyone, not companies and not the poor. 2/3 of the Fed budget is unconstitional, that is why we’re in this mess. Most of the errors Bush made were to appease Democrats, but he was no conservative.

      • JC


        Some of what you say is valid re: getting spending under control.
        however I would include defunding illegal immigration and welfare in general.
        As for blaming the GOP for all of this, you must have your head in the sand as both sides are equally guilty.
        In fact it was the Clinton administration with the tireless help of a certain Kenyan who took all restrictions off of Freddie and Fannie so that everyone could own a home…the straw that broke the camel’s back and led to this particular meltdown.
        And it was allowed to continue under Bush, and has accelerated at breakneck speed under the Kenyan.

        See what I’m getting at? “Everybody” is involved in the destruction of America and paving the way to Globalism.

        • Dan az

          Hey JC
          I found this site I think you would like to.

          • JeffH

            Dan az, thanks…I’ll be checking it out.

          • JC

            Thanks Dan, I’m already on their mailing list.
            It’s an interesting movement to follow and they have my support.

          • Al Sieber

            Thanks Dan, did the storm hit you yet?

      • Lewis Munn

        I see the liberal polices of spending and government regulation to the nth degree as immense parts of the problem.

        Look at what happens when the Liberals do not get their way…they bring everything and everybody to a halt and blame the conservatives. They picket, they refuse to do their duties, they sulk and pout.

        I think you have not looked carefully into what the real conservatives believe in and do when they can. One of the slogans from our country’s early days was, “Be sure you are right, then go ahead.” As exemplified by our great lady congressperson, today the motto is “Plunge ahead without knowledge, and find out the effects later!” Typical Liberal!

        You should also look at what those who claim to be conservative but are wolves in sheep’s clothing do to us. Modern day science is often perverted, looking a lot like a high-tech return to the dark ages. Where the government is always right, regardless of the facts, and those who dispute are pushed aside…not yet being exactly killed, but nullified. Remember the famous statement, well under the breath, “But it does move”?

        Our modern “Liberals” seem to want to retry everything that has failed in the past, having never taken the time to understand and learn from it.

        They also want to be “Liberal” with my tax moneys, on projects and people undeserving of the largess, but dear to the pockets of the Liberals, that do then support the liberals and mock the conservatives, the real ones.

        Been predicted, long long ago, and coming true in a nation falling around you!!

    • Peter

      Being neither GOP nor left, I don’t always agree wholly with what Bob writes, but this article is absolutely spot on. The brevity of this response proves it for me. I found NOTHING to disagree with.

    • Lewis Munn

      Good post. Thanks.

  • s c

    I don’t see any easy way out of this mess. It’s bad enough that we have what is best described as the “best government that money can buy.” Couple that curse with the “best voters that money can buy,” and some of this crap begins to make sense.
    Of course, that doesn’t render any easy answers, but you sure can better understand where to aim a middle digit (or two) and demand an immediate change of behavior. Or, you can sit back and wait for the current White House Savior to “save” us.

  • Mikey

    I absolutely believe that we must get our fiscal house in order. But it’s on the verge of lying to say that the debt is $55 trillion. Yes that is the overall projected liability for nest 50years or so of the biggest entitlement programs, but ignores the income that can be quite properly used to pay those liabilities. A cap on benefits and rise in the age of retirement could bring the current obligations under control abut our spineless representatives will dare not touch the issue because of hyper partisanship; they fiddle while the country burns,,,,,

    • Bitter Libertarian

      You have to understand that the INTEREST is what is pushing the possibility of paying anything off further ahead every day. So there is no Lie, Compounded Interest borrowed by the Govt, backed by NOTHING, has to make one ask..WHO PUT THE LENDERS IN CHARGE of the MONEY SUPPLY!!! hahahahaha

      • JC in CA

        Bitter…Answer – Woodrow Wilson in 1913 with the evil Fed Reserve Act , This one Act of Law is the king pin of all of our financial woes. Allowing this to become law in the winter recess exactly like the obummer care law during Christmas with little fan fare let loose the money changers among us the people.

        Allowing the relationship between the Treasury and a private bank specifically to control, manipulate, deflate, inflate our money supply. Since its inception, we have only been played by the politicians, wars and edicts like the confiscation of privately owned gold.

        My grandfather, one of 13 siblings, has told me his personal memories of his father fighting with his sister over turning in her $5 gold coin into the bank by executive order 6102 by our wonderful socialist friend Roosevelt. He remembers the bitter fight in the house on the family farm. The survived the Great Depression by burning corn cobbs for heat, eating eggs and potatoes for every meal, and selling the extra eggs and cream from their dairy cows at market.

        So with a bit of learning some basic history and examination of the events and actions of our past ‘leaders’, it will be shown that our demise as a nation began at that point in time.

        Be well and God bless you all.


        • S.C.Murf

          Thanks JC and hang in there

          up the hill

        • JC

          I would say that that is a fair representation of events.

    • WayneT

      Our gutless politicians, Republicans and Democrats alike, are all responsible for the conomic mess we are in today because we, the people, don’t hold these idiots responsible for their foolish votes on some of these bills they pass. What the idiot politicians do is buy votes from their constituents by sending a lot of pork home to their districts. Tax money sent to the Federal Government should never be sent back to the states. Let the states collect their on taxes and fund themselves. If the Feeral Government can disperse money back to the states, then they are either taxing people too much, or borrowing too much. Most politicians are a bunch of liars, and should never be trusted. It seems like some people likes to be lied to, or their don’t want to hear the truth.

      • http://deleted Claire

        WayneT—Good choice of words!

    • Lewis Munn


      I would be glad to have continued working longer, but nobody would hire me

      And I have been fired for doing too good a job in my work. Under Union Liberal shops! I have been fired when a major corporation ate the company I worked for because the small company was too good and competitive. Buy out and dismember the good competition. Liberals seem not to like competition!

      Government regulations changed too, going to liberalism, and eliminating the conservative approach in the work force.

      When you force people out of the work force, do you expect them to wait in Limbo for SS to start at 75, or 85, or 95?? Except for the illegals, who get the equivalent right now! And don’t have to work a lick, like the rest of us did!!

  • David Kaspersin

    The Citizens of Egypt and many countries throughout the world, are revolting to
    get their freedoms back, and to work and eat and be paid a far wage.
    What is happening in these countries is going to happen here in the
    United States of America. We have too many people loosing their homes,
    living in the streets and going hungry. The only way to prevent a
    revolution in the US is for ALL bureaucrats at ALL levels of government,
    to take a large cut in pay, eliminate all of their perks, cut back on staff,
    and last but not least, try being honest for a change!
    And we need to:
    1. Get out of Iraq
    2. Get out of Afghanistan
    3. Reduce aid to the rest of the world.
    4. Close all Governor Mansions and turn them into money making Museums.
    5. Governors can serve the public better by having their offices in one of our many
    empty malls.
    6. Tax all Churches. They make money, lots of money.

    We must introduce a bill in Congress to increase the tax percentage
    on the upper two percent rich to FIFTY PERCENT, with NO LOOPHOLES!
    Then we must make it clear to all of Congress that anyone of them
    who do not vote for the bill will be voted out of office.
    We The Middle Class are still the largest percentage of people in The United States.
    So we have the collective power to stop being slaves to
    the GREEDY RICH and to CON Gress!

    ” I see in the near future a crisis approaching that unnerves me
    and causes me to tremble for the safety of my country.
    As a result of the war, corporations have been enthroned,
    and an era of corruption in high places will follow,
    and the money power of the country will endeavor to
    prolong its reign by working upon the prejudices of the
    people until all wealth is aggregated in a few hands and
    the Republic is destroyed. I feel at this moment more
    anxiety for the safety of my country than ever before,
    even in the midst of war” —

    Abraham Lincoln (Nov. 21, 1864 letter to Col. William F. Elkins)

    • TP

      I am a Christian and agree with giving to Caesar what is his. The Church was never meant to be a business anyway. It is supposed to be a fellowship of believers. We should meet as a group in our homes, in our neighborhood parks, and anywhere possible, but not own vast amounts of property and large overhead. I think then we would see who is real and who is playing.

    • Bert Cundle

      NO CHANGES WILL BETTER US: Unless we git rid of the THIEVES in Government!

      • Al Sieber

        You’re right Burt.

    • eddie47d

      “all wealth is aggregated in a few hands and the Republic will be destroyed”. Bingo! We have too many Kings in our country who are making outrageous amounts of money. Few seem to earn it and it’s only money making money. Hard work? Hardly, and few jobs are created. The wealthy have lost much of the respect they once had and greed overwhelms their lives. Change needs to come from the top down and I don’t see that happening.The monetary increase for the wealthy is 7% in the last 3 years and the lifestyle of the average person is going down. You do the math and see why Lincoln’s words are ringing so true today. Sure there are other reasons but the obvious needs to be addressed and those scalawags need to be taken to task.

    • WayneT

      David, it seems like the more money the government takes in, the more they spend. Over the years any surplus money should have gone to the National Debt, not back to the states, in pork. However, it you spend all the money you have, and then borrow more money, there can never be a surplus. This is our stupid politicians in action. What wories me is if the Repubicans rein in the spending against the Democrats wishes, then people will blame the Republicans for their sound fiscal policy, which will have an effect on all of us, then I am afraid people will take it out on the Repubicans in 2012. We have to be careful that this does not happen. We know that Nobama’s and his Zombies in Congress now have already got us into almost $4,000,000,000,000 doing the last two years. The Republican are going to have to take the bull by the horns and hope that people will understand why they had to do it.

      • Lewis Munn

        Unfortunately, most people now are products of Government schools who do not teach sound economics, if at all, nor good math, and seem to avoid history, while focusing on teaching to have fun and indulge in pleasures.

        One thing we need to do is get back to the basics so when the kids come out of public schools they know the truth and can handle the math, and understand the history.

        Another area let slide is ethics. A major area that afflicts our country greatly now. Kids, and younger adults, it seems, think pleasure is the goal in life, and honor, and truth, are old-fashioned.

        Taught against in our Public Schools, and kids who go to schools that teach ethical behaviour tend to get put down! Dunno what can be done about that anymore! But it sure shows up often now! And I hear really very little outcry anymore. Except from some of us old geezers, who remember when a man’s word meant something.

    • Cawmun Cents

      If you agree to amend the second amendment so that it doesnt say the words “free exercise thereof,agree to also permanentlly remove the words “separation of church and state”from any judicial,federal,state,and local documents,then I would say its an excellent idea to begin taxing churches.But those agreements would have to be made and ratified before you could tax the churches.

      • Lewis Munn

        IF uyou atre going to tax churches, you need to be fair, and tax ||A|LL charities, and all charitable contributions.

        Kids should learn earelyh, by having their allowances taxed, and presents taxed according to value.

        Think of the money to be had if every Christmas present received is taxed against the receiver! Every birthday present, too. Kids will learn quickly how to fill in forms!

        We know when kids are born, so we can start early collecting taxes from them on presents, and allowances, etc.

    • taxpayer

      so if we tax more, than we can pay off the debt? Tax churches, just like taking from the poor, many churches fund their outreach programs. Churches do pay employees, and they are taxed. What you will ran into is many churches closing there doors and becoming a burden on the tax payers to tear down, protect or sell if there are any buyers. Maybe reduce spending would be a better idea, yes it will hurt and the going out to eat, several tv’s, games and what not will have to go away. Grow business, make products that sell, food, gas, technology. Taxing the rich is dumb and will not pay for everyone. The rich can be rich anywhere in the world.

      • karolyn

        Think about mega-churches! I just wonder what percentage of their money goes to outreach and what percentage goes for the pastor’s mansion and cars!

        • vicki

          One nice thing about Mega-Churches. They don’t put guns to my head and force me to pay for their pet charities. Too bad liberals are not as nice with their “social justice” charities.

          • Mick

            vicki says:
            February 18, 2011 at 5:01 pm
            One nice thing about Mega-Churches. They don’t put guns to my head and force me to pay for their pet charities. Too bad liberals are not as nice with their “social justice” charities.

            Ohhhhhhhh!! how so right you are Vicki !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

          • Lewis Munn

            Right on, Vicki!

    • http://?? Joe H.

      hate to burst your bubble, but there are a great many churches that are operating very close to going under for lack of funds!!! A lot of them operate on the premis that God will provide where needed and it seems to happen! The church I was baptised in was in need of money to put an addition on the church as we had outgrown our present bldg. The minister Reverand Raloff was right out there laying bricks, mixing morter, painting and roofing with the congregation and few contractors they used. the church today, is still small but very much loved by its congregation.

      • Karolyn

        Just saw on the news last night that the Protestant denominations are losing members and the pentecostals (the ones with the money) are gaining.

    • Lewis Munn


      Liberals like to smear churches with a brush too wide to see the ends.
      None of the churches I have attended have ever made lots of money. But helped a lot of small people in small ways that did NOT make the headlines, especially not National News!

      The one I am in now meets in homes, as we cannot even afford fuel to warm it one day a week! Such big money!! Should the government tax that away too?

      I suspect you have not looked, but do read in the news of huge cathedrals, and rich and evil founders, of which there are a very few. But you do NOT go out and look at the millions of small, conservative, Christian churches who are NOT making all that money you hate so much. And want to tax, probably to confiscation.

      And if you do, then the government has to support those smaller churches, and so gets more control and involvement in religions, maybe even a State Religion, with all the corruption that entails!!

      Would that make you happier? A corrupt faith enforced by the government and run to maximize return to the Government? Been done before; what does History tell us??

      You gonna tax the meal services of the smaller churches? And make collective feeding of the poor and hungry a State matter? How has it worked in the past?

      Think carefully, not hatefully, of success in improving lives, one at a time.

  • Munday/TX

    well you can invest in gold and silver all you want, but if there is nothing is buy-what good will it do you. The Bible says at the time of the end they will be throwing thier gold and silver on to the streets-can’t eat it and nothing to buy-then what Mr. Wall Street!!!
    seems to me the best way to go is to invest in a Bible and see what God has to say about this whole thing-it was predicted over 2000 years ago and almost all the predictions in the Bible have come true-the rest are building up steam…what will you say when you bend that knee to Jesus and here’s a clue, swallowing real hard and stammering will not help!!

    • Erik

      The fairy tales of Jesus have always been a source of amusement to me.
      Bible stories will rot your brain.
      I do, however, love the biblical references to unicorns in the KJV.
      Unicorns, Noah’s magic boat, Joseph’s coat of many colors…’s so magical, just like Harry Potter! LMAO

      • http://?? Joe H.

        All I say to you is when the time comes we will see who will be right you or me. I already know and I pity you!

      • fanofthefounders

        No one can convince you if you have no faith, but our country was founded based on a moral population, a free society requires it, “Our constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other” – John Adams. Part of the problem is our separation from a faith based society. That’s why our Constitution does’t give the Fed gov’t authority to and it’s not necessary for the gov’t to provide charity. Taking care of the poor is the responsibility of the faithful.

      • http://naver samurai

        Way too much kool aid on a daily basis. You had better watch your back, moron! You never know when God or Jesus will walk up from behind you and give you a good slap upside your head to bring you back into reality. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

      • independant thinker

        Show us the reference to unicorns in the Bible. As far as the “coat of many colors”, that just means a brightly colored multi colored coat.

      • Lewis Munn

        Laugh now while you can, Erik.

        Remember, as archaeology progresses, many things laughed at in the Bible by unbelievers are being shown to have truth to them.

        And, of course, how much better would our government be if the Bible’s standards on ethics and truthfulness were adhered to by the current crop of non-Christians we have in Washington? Think about it, if you dare.

  • Ted Zedek


    • Lewis Munn

      Ship all the Plutocrats back to Pluto! We sure do not need them here!!

  • marcy

    Why do you say “OUR SPENDING IS OUT OF CONTROL?”

    It’s Congresses spending that is out of control.

    It’s not my spending. I live within my means.
    I pay my debts at the end of the month. I do
    not charge on my credit card if I can not pay
    it off at the end of the month.

    I am not the problem.

    • http://?? Joe H.

      We are very much alike. If I can’t afford it, I don’t need it other than the bare neccesities of life! The Good Lord has given me tha ability to keep my freezer full even in Ohio where I have before and I won’t starve. I can hunt to do it, never fear!

  • Dr. Mabuse

    The recent comments by the head of the IMF to stop using the dollar as the world’s reserve currency was the beginning of the end for our way of life.

    • Bitter Libertarian

      Not saying you arent right, but its not the first time this was said. Last year about the same time same thing was suggested.

    • Lewis Munn

      But the people who voted for the politicians who bankrupted the USA will never feel shame.

    • JC

      It’s just another symptom of Globalism, which is a cancer on all free people’s. We need to resign from the UN and end the Federal Reserve.
      And that’s just for starter’s….

  • Patriot

    If the government shuts down for awhile is that so bad? I do not think so! When we the people really understand that we are ruled by the Rockefeller Monarchy and most our leaders are puppets to these money masters, we need to weed out all these political hacks and start over. It will take time maybe 100 years, but; let the work begin! It has started do not lose your focus, see Wisconsin, Ohio and others keep the pressure on these people to do what is right. Term limits start with “We the People!”

    • Vigilant

      100 years??? I don’t think we have that long to cure the problem.

  • bob wire

    I don’t entertain self defeating thoughts and that’s what I find this mental masturbation to be.

    But I do enjoy science fiction and it seem inevitable if mankind does make it to the 27 century that a world government will be an accepted norm.

    The top 2 % will dominate and rule with anyone human life being seen of small importance. This 2% will have their bureaucrats and enforcers while the rest of us work and live at their pleasure.

    People will compete to serve and to be found worthy.

    How’s that for a mid game scenario for mankind’s reach for the stars?

    “all is well in the vineyard of the Lord” my friend, don’t fear the unknown, embrace it.

    • karolyn

      Amen, bob!

  • Bill

    Every voter, to retain the right to vote, should be paying a head-tax, proportional to their income, say 10%. in addition there should be a consumption tax by way of sales tax.

    The elected officials, instead of managing our tax money, find new ways to gain popularity by providing hand-outs and creating dependency. They should not have the right to increase the tax or add any new taxes. Any such proposal should be done thru a referendum.

    Educational institutions should be privatized. Parents should be given a voucher.

    People who are not supposed to be here, should not be here. Imagine if we keep the door open to India or China, similar to Mexico. Every single citizen will end up having 12 other people to feed, and care for.

  • Bert Cundle

    The “Game” of & for; Control: Is a Changeing Play, With Winners & Loosers.
    My View: Uppity Blacks Attacked our Fed. Gov. With many winnings. They used the Gov. for LAWS to invade… In the disguise of CIVIL RIGHTS! STATES useing the CRIMINAL SYSTEM for REVENUE with Addition of many LAWS… WAS THE SLIMY SLOPE; OF “REAL CIVILIZATION”!
    O’B. is trying to fix it with Black Leadership…

    • CJM

      I think you have more than sugar in your kool-aide. Obama couldn’t lead a group of kindergarteners on a rope walk!

      • Bert Cundle

        But this may prove … Why, we haven’t had a black Pres. before!

        • Vigilant

          What the HELL does his race have to do with it? I find your comments offensive to all decent people.

          • vicki

            But quite predictable that a liberal would play the race card.

          • http://?? Joe H.

            I don’t know if you directed your post to Vigilant or Bert, but I agree with Vigilant and I am nowheres near a lib!! Berts comments WERE offensive to anybody with a lick of sense!!

          • bob wire

            Well they were not offensive to me, ~ I took no offense. To be offended would require uncertainly in your beliefs, a show of weakness in self.

            The comment was simple foolish, for we all know Negros could not even vote in American until 1964, much less run for president. It’s taken this long for a black person to be come forward and be found worthy and in contention for the job.

            We have not had a Chinese or a Hispanic or a Hawaiian President yet either.

            To be offended is a personal choice, these were not your words and you are not responsible for them, they belong to another that not in your charge.

            See how simple things can be when blame is rewarded to the correct party?

          • http://?? Joe H.

            thank you very much!!!! you have just proven what a lot of people have been saying here! That the dems and progressives are the ones that use racist terminology and not the conservatives like you are always trying to say!!

          • independant thinker

            “The comment was simple foolish, for we all know Negros could not even vote in American until 1964,”

            Bob that is incorrect the Negros could vote in 1964. The problem was with intimedation and outright violence against them to prevent them from excersising their right to vote. I was raised in the south and know they voted before 1964 however a smaller percent of them voted than whites. There was also discrimination in the north. It was perhaps not as pervasive as in the south and certainly did not get the attention from the press that southern discrimination did but it did exist. In fact some of the localized discrimination in the north was worse than anything that existed in the south.

          • vicki

            Joe H. says:
            “Vickie I don’t know if you directed your post to Vigilant or Bert,”

            Bert played the race card.

            Now as to offense. The English language is quite clear on this.
            “I am offended..”
            “I take offense…”

            So I get to choose to be offended. Or not. I choose not. I do not care to give someone else that much control over my emotions.

            Let the libs whine about race. It only proves our contention that they are too busy worrying about the depth of a person’s suntan to be able to notice the depth of a persons character.

          • vicki

            Bob Wire writes:
            “The comment was simple foolish, for we all know Negros could not even vote in American until 1964, ”

            Interesting. Whom is this “we”? Negros have been able to vote from the very beginning of this country.

   (Democrats do not read this. It points out that the Democrat party was historically the oppressor of black folk)

          • bob wire

            So? You are welcome Joe, but I’m at a lost in knowing how I “proved” any thing, much less that Progressives/ Liberal are more prong to racist statement. I fail to see how you got that from my statement.

            And Yes , You are all correct with your thoughts, The Emancipation Proclamation was an executive order issued by United States President Abraham Lincoln on January 1, 1863, that gave Negros the right to vote.

            So why was it not until The African-American Civil Rights Movement and the passage of the Civil Rights Act that black truly could vote without fear of open and veiled intimidation that they truly could vote?

            Why the need for this Civil Rights Act of 1964 if rights and condition were as you tend to suggest? That’s a hundred and one years that blacks refrained from voting with very few isolated exceptions that you so gleefully wish to point out.

            Because you have failed acknowledge any need for the Civil Rights Act would be my first guess. So this begs the question why would that be? Why would you see no need for it? Would you be in favor of repealing this legislation?

            I’ll say one thing, I’m pleased that you all seem to understand that “taken offense” is a personal choice. There is still hope for you yet.

          • bob wire

            And of course you are correct Vicky, Southern democrats suppressed black and black rights much more then Republicans.

            Since the majority of black were in the south as was democrats it’s more of a logistic issue really, not to even consider the agriculture economic of the south and negro labor an intrigue part of what “had been” a cotton industry and huge exporter to the world where which fortunes were being made and enjoyed by the north and south alike. Bankers and lawyers in the north were enjoying this arrangement.

            If you wish to be exposed to the mumps you must expose yourself to someone that has them. So our northern cousins was for a time, insulated from Black culture and much of what it might entail.

            Racism has always been alive and well in the Democratic Party, you get a stick’em star Vicky!

            No battle here with this notion.

            That was then and today is today, shall we discuss the RNC? or just the northern states, today or yesterday?

          • Vigilant

            bob wire,

            “The Emancipation Proclamation was an executive order issued by United States President Abraham Lincoln on January 1, 1863, that gave Negros the right to vote.”

            Sorry, Bob, close but no cigar. The EP did not give them the right to vote, it freed them from slavery. And only in the states at war with the Union. It took the 14th Amendment to lay the framework for voting rights.

          • bob wire

            “The Fourteenth Amendment (Amendment XIV) to the United States Constitution was adopted on July 9, 1868 as one of the Reconstruction Amendments. ”

            Thanks Vigilant, I stand corrected. I appreciate both your accuracy and indulgence.

            So this still begs the question, why was it not until 1964 that American Negro’s decided to be a part of the election process with any numbers of significance?

            Perhaps Time could shed light on this quandary. Are we left to assume?

            I’d prefer to know. ~ anyone wish to make a stab at it?

          • bob wire

            “The EP did not give them the right to vote, it freed them from slavery. And only in the states at war with the Union.”

            Interesting point, ~ so does that mean that negro slaves in states not at war with the Union were not considered legally freed by the Proclamation of Emancipation? Or was it more of a non-issue in that these states considered slavery illegal?

            As we know the affluent commonly move about with an entourage of personal servants ranging from tote & fetch servants,cooks,horsemen, to a gentleman’s gentleman and could be easily found anywhere in the world.

          • bob wire

            Oops, I overlooked Independent Thinker post ~ sorry my friend, I share your thoughts and will summarize and re-post.

            “independant thinker says:
            February 19, 2011 at 11:47 am

            The problem was with intimidation and outright violence against them to prevent them from exercising their right to vote. There was also discrimination in the north. It was perhaps not as pervasive as in the south and certainly did not get the attention from the press that southern discrimination did but it did exist. In fact some of the localized discrimination in the north was worse than anything that existed in the south.”

            That’s the way I see it as well Independent Thinker, this racial discrimination went on openly for close to 100 years and it was this discrimination that created the climate for the need of the Civil Rights act of 64.

            If it went on for a 100 years I seriously question any legislation could make it go away with the simple flipping of a switch. ~ That is just not realistic to the nature of man.

            So today, ~ this leave us with a nation of people that are required to comply by virtue of enforced laws. A people that like to point a self–righteous finger of blame and divide up into two or three separate political camps and claim that benevolence to race belongs to them.

            I say many of you are full of $hit. Having lived on both the receiving and giving end of this, this ~ social culture, a veteran of race wars, a victim of government mandated social engineering, of affirmative act, a student and follower of Christianity, I quit lying to myself long ago.

            I’d hope you might do the same and accept it for what it is and believe what we “were” does not determine our future and what we can be as nation of brothers and sisters united in the cause for Liberty and Justice for all.

            To be “offended” is a personal choice and in so choosing, you have permitted others to diminished you. You have lost the battle from the offset. You have accepted and offered credence to their views, elevation them above yourself with your “offense” and your reaction.

            You empower people with your “offense” ~ Vicky got it, ~ she understands this, it’s clear by her posting.

            If you can understand this and get it out of your life, where “the taking of offense” is no long a part of your life, your life and views of the world will improve. You will be a happier, better adjusted, deliberate thinker.

            It’s unnecessary baggage and what lies at the very heart of bigotry. Make me a promise today that you will think hard about wanting to continue this old path that leads to the same place “every time”.

    • steve

      To quote a line from “Blazing Saddles” regarding that irrationality, Mr. Cundle,

      “Now WHOOOOOOOO could argue with THAT?”

      Sit down, take a breath, drink some water to flush the crack from your system, and try again.

  • Buddy

    No, Marcy, you are not the problem.

    The problem resides in the political system which has grown with the USA Union (of states). Although there were some mechanisms to control the political system, over the years those restrictive mechanisms have been weakened to the point where the restrictions have become irrelevant.

    But, no surprise. What did we expect? The national treasury is in the hands of politicians whose main interest is in maintaining a good job and enjoying the trappings of their offices. There is no solution. Even if the entire GDP was used for national debt maintenance, it wouldn’t be sufficient. The only out is a break-up of the USA Union – - which is probably one of those “black swan” events in our collective futures.

    • vicki

      Buddy writes:
      “The problem resides in the political system which has grown with the USA Union (of states). Although there were some mechanisms to control the political system, over the years those restrictive mechanisms have been weakened to the point where the restrictions have become irrelevant. ”

      And our forefathers KNEW this would be a problem. They WARNED us that “Our constitution is only fit for a moral and religious people. It is wholly unsuited to the governance of any other kind.” – john Adams. Our recent history is sufficient proof.

      I personally think that a moral people is sufficient. But what moral compass to use? I suggest this one.

      “Your Creator gave you 2 gifts. Life and Free Will. How you use these gifts and how you honor these gifts in others defines your moral character.”

      • Lewis Munn

        Vicki, good thoughtz, but…

        Most of the anti-religion folks will say once you say Creator, our ears are stopped…you are peddling a religion. They do not realize that they hold a religious belief in no creator, tho that has nothing to substitute but emptiness. And leads to an amoral society with laws protecting the powerful and oppressing the rest.

        We need to realize even the Atheists have a religion they cling to, and a world view to support it, right or wrong. I think you will be hard-pressed to find a sentient creature without a “religion”, tho it might seem very strange to us!

  • CJM

    It’s all very interesting about how one can purchase gold and silver; unfortunately, most Americans cannot afford such a purchase. And quite the contrary to the statement that Americans are not aware of our economic disaster—we are very much aware of this situation. We also are aware that foreign governments OWE THE UNITED STATES a great deal of monies for past loans that they have defaulted on, and that includes loans to China (who patently has refused to pay even the first penny on the interest that has accumulated). Neither the Congress nor the President has made the first demand to recall those loans, let alone begin deducting payments due from China for their outstanding debt. Foreign diplomats, and even some of the populace of those nations, have thumbed their noses at the US and stated they have no intention to repay those loans. Stop foreign aid–even for emergency services (has anyone ever seen a foreign country come to the aid of the US when we have experienced a disaster?). Close the door to immigrants until ALL ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS HAVE BEEN DEPORTED; secure our borders. Can you imagine what would become of an American citizen who illegally entered a foreign country? Get rid of wayward congressional members who are failing to support our US Constitution; States should exercise their right to recall these self-assuming, self-serving laggards and put only those who support our Nation in the vacant congressional seats. Press charges against known individuals who curry the usurpation of our government (does Soros and Ayers ring a bell?). We do have laws against such attempts; congress and the US Supreme Court are not enforcing those laws. Organizations such as fundamental islamics are NOT religions and do NOT qualify for Constitutional protections…remove them from our premises immediately. And finally, Impeach Obama, period.

    • eddie47d

      So you think if we get rid of illegals,Soros,Obama,and Ayers the sun and moon will align and the world will be perfect. Ayers is a bit player and has very little influence on much of anything. That blew your whole spiel or right wing talking points. You left out the Koch Brothers and how they have Justice Thomas and Scalia plus the Chamber of Commerce in their back pockets.

      • Vigilant

        eddie, just out of curiosity, have you read ANY of the court opinions of Thomas or Scalia? I doubt it, because if you did, you would recognize the reverence they have for the Constitution and the reign of individual rights. Thomas’ minority opinion on “Kelo vs. New London, CT” is an absolute masterpiece of legal philosophy.

        Of course, you probably have no respect for the Constitution and rule of law. And you won’t expand your understanding by relying on the lamestream media.

        • JeffH

          Vigilant, you’ve answered your own question. To even compare Soros and his heavy investment into the hatred and demise of America to the Koch’s, Scalia and Thomas is a slap to even a half wit’s intelligence. The Koch Bros, by the way, are freedom loving American’s and capitalists and invest their money two ways…for freedom and profit. Soros invests his money two ways also, the destruction of America and profit through manipulation of economies.

          • eddie47d

            That’s all it is Jeff an opinion and you added your half-azzed spin. Congratulations. Apparently you don’t know as much as you think about the Koch’s

          • JeffH

            eddie ole boy. Unlike you, I do my research. No spin here, just the facts.

          • JeffH

            …and eddie, you’re so brilliant, tell me about the Koch Bros?

          • http://?? Joe H.

            …………………..sure is quiet after that last post!!!

          • eddie47d

            The Koch’s aren’t really much different than Soros. I just believe the the Koch’s love polluting a little to much and defend those who do. They are hardly being responsible Americans and are always willing to change our political landscape but for their own benefit.

          • JeffH

            eddie says,”The Koch’s aren’t really much different than Soros.”

            Not even close! There is a gigantic difference…in how they spend their money and how they make it!

            One spends his money to promote freedom and the other spends his money promoting pure communism.

        • bob wire

          “One spends his money to promote freedom and the other spends his money promoting pure communism.” Says the Snake to the Frog.

          It all seems to boil down to a perception of some “vested interest”

          Freedom ~ Communism, Communism ~ Freedom? da? let me think about it for a minute!

          and of course we should be so luck to share the Kouch brothers interest and concerns, ~ since we all “have” so very much it common. What is good for them is bound to tickle all Americans and be for the betterment of everyone.

          Let’s see? ~

          Paying the gardener, the little woman’s new BMW every year, the yearly family ski trip, getting our nails done, new tires of the house, college tuition, Fall shopping trip in Europe, paying Federal, State, County and City taxes, ~ all those little things that all of us American’s share and have in common.

          I understand ~ it makes perfect sense. These 2% earner are extremely bright, have the best of intentions and we need to do exactly what they say!

          • JeffH

            bob, you made it clear you don’t much care for the 2% earners…sounds so very much like the liberal/marxist/socialist sound board regarding the 2% earners.

            I suppose you can justify Soros expenditures…or not and those that prefer to follow his lead! I thought I pointed out the very basic goals of both Soros and the Koch’s…given a choice, I still choose freedom over the progressive anti-American foundation of George Soros. I know I’m being simplistic here, but it ain’t rocket science either to figure it out.

          • bob wire

            No Jeff, I just see a serious conflict of interest you elect to make light of. I don’t believe in benevolence and especially from the wealthy. They can’t afford too for one thing, even if they wish too!

            Today, as well as yesterday, The wealthy must hire a team of attorney to give money away! The wealthy comes under constant, unrelenting bombardment with people attempting to separate them from their money. For a wealthy person to be wealthy could be just a matter of luck of birth and hard work but to stay wealthy, luck is not a factor.

            I have know wealthy people in my many travels and business. I’ve known old money and new money. While they have been good people, they have little in common with me. I go into their world, they don’t come inside mine.

            Okay ~ now you are going to throw me the question of which wealthy man should we listen to? Like you see a distinct choice between one or another. That would be my rebuttal to my own statement and place the burden if my argument back on to me.

            But ~ I’m going to wait for you to do that and take advantage of the time to construct an answer worthy the question.

            We need the truth, wherever we must go to find it!

            The wealthy in this country today have enjoyed many prosperous years. In so so doing I feel they have becomes very spoiled.

            If Governor Walker wants to give away 104 billion dollar of tax concessions to Business as they claim America’s tax structure project anti business bias and that it cost one billion more dollar to start up a business in America then it does some other nation. Then Walker claim a 130 billion dollar short fall in the state budget and expects this short fall to be made up largely on the back of the working middle class!

            But WAIT! there is more!! Where the middle class does agree to accept these burden to help the state to balance their budget, ~ it’s still not enough for Gov, Walker ????? ~~ somebody is lying out their aSSets!

            So Jeff, ~~ who was the first liar?

            If business interest don’t want to be and support American and American values and want a reshuffle ~ maybe the need to relocate to Cirio

          • bob wire

            No Jeff, I just see a serious conflict of interest you elect to make light of. I don’t believe in benevolence and especially from the wealthy. They can’t afford too for one thing, even if they wish too!

            Today, as well as yesterday, The wealthy must hire a team of attorney to give money away! The wealthy comes under constant, unrelenting bombardment with people attempting to separate them from their money. For a wealthy person to be wealthy could be just a matter of luck of birth and hard work but to stay wealthy, luck is not a factor.

            I have know wealthy people in my many travels and business. I’ve known old money and new money. While they have been good people, they have little in common with me. I go into their world, they don’t come inside mine.

            Okay ~ now you are going to throw me the question of which wealthy man should we listen to? Like you see some distinct choice between one or another. That would be my rebuttal to my own statement and place the burden of my argument back onto me.

            But ~ I’m going to wait for you to do that and take advantage of the time to construct an answer worthy the question.

            We need the truth Jeff, ~ wherever we must go to find it!

            The wealthy in this country today have enjoyed many prosperous years. In so doing I feel they have becomes very spoiled. Only the most attractive deals are being considered anymore. If there is one fly on it, it’s not worth their effort to peruse anymore.

            When Governor Walker decides to give away 104 billion dollars worth of tax concessions to Business as they claim America’s tax structure project anti-business bias and that it cost one billion more dollar to start up a business in America then it does some other nation. I’m left to think that he believes them.

            Only then does Walker claim a 130 billion dollar short fall in the state budget and expects this short fall to be made up largely on the back of the working middle class!

            But WAIT! there is more!! Where the middle class does agree to accept these burden to help the state balance their budget, ~ it’s still not enough for Gov, Walker ????? ~~ somebody is lying out their aSSets!

            So Jeff, ~~ who was the first liar in this scenario, for it clear someone is lying.

            If business interest don’t want to be and support Americans and American values and wants a reshuffle ~ maybe they need to relocate to Egypt! or some place under transition where they can deal with all the other uncertainties that they take so much for granted here in the USA.

            Don’t get me wrong, Jeff. I believe government pays their people too much in comparison to the private sector and there is room for concession. But still, it’s off of the backs of the middle class that this country exist and pays the bills. What are we to do when the middle is gone, dried up? Are the wealthy going to step up to the plate?

            I’ll tell you the answer to that right now, hell no! they won’t!

            If they planed to just milk us and then move, ~ the time is now for them shag their ass out of here and don’t let the door hit them in the back on their way out.

          • JeffH

            bob, I’m not throwing the questions at you, especially which wealthy man to choose to listen to. I tried to make it simple so that even you could follow the bouncing ball, but I see you choose to take a whole ‘nother route. I’ve been speaking in clear terms here. I’m not making “light” of what the Koch’s spend their money on anymore than how Soros spends his money.

            If I have to make a choice between a dirty Marxist like the anti-American and former Nazi collaberor Soros and the dirty Capitalists like the Koch Bros, I’ll choose the Capitalist every time. You don’t like it…so what…I’ve no intention of apologizing! Just like me, your a nobody in this world and these are our opinions. I just chose to research ackgrounds, from multiple sources, a bit more than you may. You don’t like the upper 2%, that’s your choice, but I’d bet if you were, you’d be a capitalist too. I just don’t happen to like Marxists, communists and socialists. Especially George Soros.

          • JeffH

            …I’d bet if you were[a 2%'r], you’d be a capitalist too…looking out for yourself…

        • bob wire

          “I’d bet if you were[a 2%'r], you’d be a capitalist too…looking out for yourself…”

          Damn right Jeff!

          but I not and and neither are you so why not accept reality and go with what best works for us?

          The wealthy or God, don’t need you or me looking out for them! They can manage ~ trust me Vigilant !

      • WayneT

        Yes, yes and yes! Get rid of the diots you mentioned, and the country will eventually get straightened out. We need people with common sense in Congress and the one in the Whitehouse.we do not have that now.

      • JeffH

        eddie, you want a little history lesson…look at:

        JeffH says:
        February 19, 2011 at 11:23 am

        • Lewis Munn

          Gentlemen, and ladies, what about the Christian mega rich guy in heavy equipment, LeTourneau (sp?).

          He was extremely rich, extremely God-fearing and Bible-believing,, and use his wealth to help people in need, and ended up with yet more wealth. Doing what the Bible says.

          How do you place him, or would you rather not think of such successful, God-fearing gentlemen? Account for his riches, and his quiet good deeds. What if we had many more like him?

  • Carlucci

    If the fiat currency is worthless, isn’t the debt worthless? I mean, isn’t it all just computerized ledger entries? How can you pay off debts with worthless “money”?

    I don’t believe any government here or in the world has any intention of paying anything back because of all the insane spending and robbing they’ve done.

    A friend of mine sent info from the following website: Their info looks really interesting, especially the Foreclosure Defense Handbook, which I read last weekend. What an eye opener.

  • Bilderberg

    Here’s the solution to the problem. Let massive government spending undermine the dollar, causing all commodities to soar in price. High gasoline prices cause food prices to elevate so high, people need to hoard food, causing widespread shortages on grocery store shelves. This leads to a breakdown of society, which in turn causes the most vulnerable to die in large numbers. Those groups would include residents fo nursing homes, the chronically sick, the poor, the homeless, welfare recipients, those collecting unemployment and food stamps, and the handicapped. As the chaos continues, it eliminates an ever wider swath of citizens including the pathetically unprepared and those without survival skills. Eventually the big die off could take about half of America. When all that’s left are well-prepared able bodied people who are not dependent on handouts, we can begin the process of rebuilding society free of the burdens of the others. You may say it’s cruel and unfair, but fixing the problem in this manner prevents an even more catastrophic scenario in the future. We in the Bilderberg Group feel the time for kicking the can down the road is over.

    • JC

      So, you’re advocating a massive “culling of the herd”?
      Which is exactly why the Founders wrote the Second Amendment.
      The Bilderberg, Hitle’s and Stalin’s of the world are one and the same.
      Our Enemies.

      • Vigilant

        JC, it was a spoof.

        • JC

          Yeah…that hit me right after I entered the comment. Oh well. :)

  • Bitter Libertarian

    I look at this whole thing like this.

    #1-Are they that stupid to spend, rack up debt, and print money? NO-This is by design.

    #2-Why? a delaying action to coordinate collapse with a natural catastrophe. (NASA has a Video on U-Tube called “Galatic Alignment”. Its fact, not fiction or speculation. They even refrain from what will and only say what “could” happen.

    #3-This will lead to the routine: Crisis-reaction-solution scheme which will be used to restructure the global financial system to “help” and give ‘relief” to the suffering millions around the globe. Perfect combination to move towards a Global Goverment.

  • jopa

    It almost was the end of America because of Bush and his cronies.They basically burned down the farm and didn’t put any insurance on it.Now it is going to cost us a bundle to rebuild after all the war profiteering that was illegal in previous wars, the cost plus no bid contracts to Haliburton(Cheyney’s company) and the list goes on.It is not the end of the world as these pages often imply but there are signs that we are now on the right track.Know your history so as to not repeat the negative side of it.Yes I did say Bush again,so be it.Last week it was all about Lincoln.

    • Cawmun Cents

      You are so sad…..

    • marvin

      are you a legal american citizen or just running your mouth to hide the fact you are here illegal, illegal cost this country over 100 billion a year in lost tax, lost jobs, food stamps health care,prison space one birth right baby cost tax payers about 30,000 dollars per year

    • WayneT

      Jopa, I was going to try and explain something to you, but I digress as you wouldn’t unstand it anyway. So I decided to rest my typing fingers for something more important later!!!!

    • fanofthefounders

      Apparently you have no knowledge history or you would realize that as far as Presidents go Wilson, FDR, LBJ, and Carter did more to derail the train than Bush with Iraq. BTW Dems were begging to go to Afganistan and how’s that going?

      • Lewis Munn

        People forget so quickly that Bush was brain-damaged from the joys of drinking deeply in this country.

        “Shoot your buddy” Cheney ran the US for Halliburton and other companies, and you folks STILL try to blame a brain-damaged President?

        He only had enough brains to follow Cheney’s orders that he got each day.

        Why do you folks not put the blame properly? Are you scared to admit truth?

        • http://?? Joe H.

          you ever been bird hunting?? Did you too, walk ahead of the guy hunting next to you?? If you did, then you, like Cheneys hunting buddie deserve to be shot!!! When hunting pheasant, quail, or any other type of dry land bird, you walk in a straight line, never getting ahead of your partners!!anytime you get ahead, you take the chance that another will follow track of a bird right into you!!! LEARN HOW TO HUNT!! Even the guy that got shot admitted he got too far ahead of the others!! Cheney was an a$$hole, but blame the guilty!

    • Lewis Munn

      Just remember Bush had most of his brain burned out by alcohol, and so Bush was just a mouthpiece for Cheney, and not a really good one at that.

      All the Bush cutters out there fail to remember who ran the government, and for whom!

      If Bush’s remaining unpickled brains were dynamite, he could not have blown his nose!

      And remember this when the big breweries talk of how wonderful and helpful they are!! Bush was their product!

  • Bitter Libertarian
  • http://msn Margaret

    Some people are wacked I dont blame Bucsh for a dang thing i blame Barack Obama

    • Bitter Libertarian

      Not attacking you, but until you realize that Both parties are one party, and both are equally responsible, you are doomed to make the same mistakes over and over and over again.

      • Carlucci

        You got it. Too bad most people don’t.

        • http://deleted Claire

          Carlucci: Don’t leave me out, I GOT it. Between Soros and the Kochs all Americans will reap what these people sow. I can’t believe people cannot see this. Soros and the Koch brothers are in it for themselves–they are the ones that are the dictators.

          • JeffH

            Claire, you know I love ya but there is a clear seperation of intent between the two. Soros is one evil destructive person clearly intent on ruining the US Constitution, your and my freedom, government economies…is a clear cut socialist, a Nazi collaberating criminal responsible for the deaths Jews during WWII. The organizations he funds and supports are clearly communist organizations.
            Here is some very important info on Soros…everything you need to know about him.

          • JeffH

            As for the Koch Brothers, I’m not a fan of them, but it should be important to understand their role and how the left has demonized them for being pure capitalists, not anti-American as Soros clearly is.

            They’ve helped fund Dick Army’s Freedom Works and the Tea Party Express, which is not the Tea Party grassroots movement. The Koch brothers give almost exclusively to Republicans just as Soros donates predominately to Democrats and Democratic organizations. Overall, Soros has spent $34.24 million and the Kochs have spent $4.06 million.

            Soros certainly wins the 527 group spending battle, beating the Koch brothers $32.5 million to $1.5 million.

            Koch Industries is the second largest private company in the U.S., with estimated 2008 revenues of $100 billion. Started as a petroleum business by their father Fred Koch. Koch Industries has become a diversified enterprise that funds large-scale lobbying and a range of libertarian policy and activist groups that play a significant role in the man made global warming denial machine.

            They helped to co-found The Cato Institute, “The mission of the Cato Institute is to increase the understanding of public policies based on the principles of limited government, free markets, individual liberty, and peace.”

            Americans for Prosperity, “AFP is an organization of grassroots leaders who engage citizens in the name of limited government and free markets on the local, state and federal levels.”

            They also fund The Heritage Foundtion, ” The Heritage Foundation is a unique institution-a public policy research organization, or “think tank”. We draw solutions to contemporary problems from the ideas, principles and traditions that make America great.

            Charles Koch has helped to build the Institute for Humane Studies, the Bill of Rights Institute and the Market-Based Management Institute

            The Koch’s lobby heavily in Washington, are clearly capitalists who will spend their money to profit their fortune, BUT, they are no where close to the evil anti-American George Soros.

            They are clearly an enemy to the Obama ideology and a …the anti-Soros and I think it’s important to make that distinction. I do not support their lobbying for profit, but that won’t change until the government’s thirst for greed is stopped. Don’t blame the corporations, blame the government…they make the laws and accept the payoffs, not the other way around as the left would like us to believe.

            The bottom line is that Soros is anti-American and anti-freedom.
            The Koch Brothers are pro-freedom.

          • JeffH

            Claire, I’m not endorsing the Koch Bros. I’m just clarifying the fact that they are the anti-Soros, enemy to the Marxist/socialist/communist movement, pro-freedom and pro-capitalist extroardinaire.

          • eddie47d

            Jeff; More anti-Soros spin? He must have horns and live underground he’s so dangerous. What BS! Koch’s have far more influence over how Americans think than Soros. I do believe for better or worse the Koch’s have a better pipeline in shaping their views on the rest of us. They are certainly trying to shape their own NWO so I’m ASSUMING they have influence in other places.

          • eddie47d

            You also love playing up that nazi collaboration crap. That makes you one devious and dubious fellow. Spread enough fear and half-truths and you have a crowd licking at your feet.

          • Kate8

            JeffH – Amazing how different people’s perception is when they only listen to left-wing news and commentary. I’m speaking of eddie’s comments about Soros.

            Soros admits to manipulating cultures and governments, and to building them up and collapsing them. He made the comment about how fun it is to be a god. Clearly, eddie missed that one.

            Thanks for the info on the Koch brothers. I never really bothered to check them out. I figured if the Left demonizes them, they can’t be that bad.

          • JeffH

            Kate8, as you can see, eddie has no real evidence to refute what is the facts, as usual, so all he has left is make unfounded accusations.
            It really is kinda funny.

          • JeffH

            Kate8, if you remember, a little over a year ago “eyes” was demonizing
            Sheldon Adleson, another billionair Republican donar, as the Republican Soros. That didn’t carry water either so now the focus has shifted to the Koch’s. Neither of these people can carry the weight or wheel the influential and destructive power of the intricate 501C’s and 527 networks that Soros does. He’s in cahoots with the Global Banksters, the Rothschilds Banking Cabal that manipulate governments and economies around the world. Egypt and the middle east rioting is another fine example of their influences and connections.

          • JeffH

            laire, I’m not trying to sway you one way or the other between the two. I just think it’s important to know the facts as they are.

            George Soros is a bad, bad man and an enemy to all free societies. He promotes Marxist and communist ideology and then profits from the turmoil he has manipulated, not just in America but around the world.
            He’s a wanted man in France and the Russian told him to never come back, he’s not welcome there. He “broke” the Bank of England…

            The Socialist Agenda
            In 1979 Soros established the Open Society Institute (OSI), which serves as the flagship of a network of Soros foundations that donate tens of millions of dollars each year to a wide array of individuals and organizations that share the founder’s agendas.

            -promoting the view that America is institutionally an oppressive nation
            -promoting the election of leftist political candidates throughout the United States
            -promoting open borders, mass immigration, and a watering down of current immigration laws
            -promoting a dramatic expansion of social welfare programs funded by ever-escalating taxes
            -promoting social welfare benefits and amnesty for illegal aliens
            -defending the civil rights and liberties of suspected anti-American terrorists and their abetters
            -financing the recruitment and training of future activist leaders of the political Left
            -advocating America’s unilateral disarmament and/or a steep reduction in its military spending
            -opposing the death penalty in all circumstances
            -promoting socialized medicine in the United States
            -promoting the tenets of radical environmentalism, whose ultimate goal, as writer Michael Berliner has explained, is “not clean air and clean water, [but] rather … the demolition of technological/industrial civilization”
            -bringing American foreign policy under the control of the United Nations

            …the list goes on

          • Kate8

            JeffH – Two nights ago on C2C radio, the guest was talking about how the NWO is a good idea, and how it will benefit all nations. He was talking about the changes in currency and such, and how it would be a very rough transition period, but all in all a good thing.

            So, now they’re right our in the open, and beginning to spread their propaganda. No doubt there are many people who really believe that one central control is a good thing, because they don’t understand history nor the reasons why separate nations and cultures are a good thing (checks and balances and such).

      • Lewis Munn

        Why I generally call the party the DemoPublicans. One body, two heads, to fool both halves of the population.

        People never wise up. If they did, they would thumb their noses at the media that says 3rd parties do not have a chance, and put some honest people in.

        The only difference between the two major parties is which tube they want to flush you down, for their own personal gains.

      • Lewis Munn

        Why I usually talk of the DemoPublican party; they are two heads on one corrupt controlling body.

        I do not think we will ever pull out of the crash dive long as we crush the good third parties down, in conversation and with the Media. And at the polls.

        Of course now, we can correct if people do not vote correctly, with the computers in the voting machines, as we saw in Nevada last election!

  • Polski

    Just some common sense (yes, I know it was outlawed by a combination of Republican and Democrat representatives, senators, presidents, CEOs, etc., etc. several years ago). People won’t realize there is a crisis until it affects them and theirs directly, like having their home foreclosed, like losing their job, like going on food stamps, like having their car taken away, etc. In the meantime, all the crooks are continuing to steal everything they can get their hands on. This includes all politicians, all corporate executives, all bureacrats, all medical people like doctors, AMA, FDA, FTC, BIG PHARMA, all lawyers/judges etc. etc.

    Nothing will be done, because the people are just a disorganized MOB that doesn’t know what to do, and the crooks are organized enough so that they’ll prevent any good changes.

    • Lewis Munn

      “All” are not corrupt. Just they are so seldom mentioned that it seems they do not exist.

      Subscribe to the free Imprimis Magazine from Hillsdale College in Michigan, and see some good stuff from good people trying to make a dent in the political corruption about.

      There is a good Representative in Louisiana who did read the Obamascare Bill and sent around a notation of the major problems. If you look for them, there are still good guys around, just not mentioned in the major media, lest the truth get out!

  • Wildcat from Dallastown, PA

    When you actually detail ALL the actions by the federal government regardless of branch irrespective of political party you will probably start with the graduated income tax and creation of the Federal Reserve banking system as the beginning of the giant leap off the cliff.

    There is also a book written anonymously by *“COL House” entitled, “Philip Dru: Administrator” which is a fictional account of Progressive ideas that create that nirvana-like model of utopian society here in the United States. Much of the ideas that created the fictional dictator of the country were lifted directly from the Bull Moose platform of 1912.

    *COL House actually had no military experience but was the son of a Houston, Texas mayor who studied at some New England prep schools and did study at Cornell University about 1877 until his father died. He was Presidential advisor, most notably for Woodrow Wilson, until he was thrown out in 1919.

    Once we could get elected representatives to repeal laws and dismantle this list of Progressive based ideas and bureaucracies that did great damage to the exceptionalism of the United States of America and undermined the citizens’ ability to improve themselves financially relative to using legal (or acceptable) means, then we can begin to establish a government that operates ethically to create an environment that incentivizes individual responsibility focused on taking care of themselves and their family members while penalizing those actions that do otherwise.

    Once we can get that going in the right direction (and fast) then we can work on reinstating and following the Constitution thereby strengthening the intent of the Founding Fathers which has served us so well before the Progressives starting meddling in our lives in very intrusive ways under the guise of social justice, diversity, cultural pluralism, tolerance and political correctness.

    While I was not in earshot of radical conversations at the turn from 2008 to 2009, I heard second or perhaps third hand about conversations that even back then were thinking of a more revolutionary method rather than political one to restore the nation. Evaluating the status of the nation, its economy, government, politics, and society and so forth as an analyst, I was concerned that I might be witnessing the 2nd American Revolution during my lifetime. In my current assessment I think we may see riots and great civil unrest here before we have anything close to resembling an actual revolution.

    I hope we can survive as a nation still known for personal freedom and liberty when the unwanted economic aftershock happens.

  • JC

    This just in:
    Hillary announces 150 million to go to Egypt to help ensure an
    “orderly transition” to Democracy.

    I hope this philanthropic liberal monster is taking it out of her own bank account.

    • Bitter Libertarian

      Democracy = Divide and Conquer Democracy sucks…Thats why Congress is required by the Constitution to guarantee a Republican form of Govt. A Republic is a very different beast.

    • WayneT

      Let ‘s fire though idiots that supports this kind of insanity. We don’t have enough mony for ourselves and the stupid Hillary wants to give it away. I amsick and tired of crap like this. Let the Egyptians pasy their own way. They assaulted a tv crew and raped a lady reported and Hillary wants to reward them for this? What in the hell is wrong with this woman?

      • Lewis Munn

        Ambition. And an overweening sense of her own importance.

  • jopa

    marvin :Yes marvin I an an American born citizen, worked hard all my life no help from my friends oh lord where is my Mercedes Benz.Do you work the night shift or are you a freeloader.If your real name is Starvin Marvin give me a call I’ll make you some soup and a sandwich.Have a good day my fellow or are you an American?

    • libertytrain

      Oh man, don’t bring up the Mercedes Benz. My daughter totaled mine years ago. And I loved that car.

  • JeffH

    Stunner! Supremes to give eligibility case another look
    Challenge to Obama getting 2nd conference before court

    • JC

      Interesting. I’ll want to see where this goes, for sure.

    • JC

      Some more good news:

      U.S. House Votes To Block
      Unauthorized Record Keeping On Gun Owners

      The U.S. House has voted for an amendment to H.R. 1 offered by Reps. Denny Rehberg and Dan Boren that prohibits the use of federal funds for a new and unauthorized multiple sales reporting scheme proposed by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (BATFE). The measure passed the chamber with broad bipartisan support.

      The BATFE is demanding the authority to require all of the 8,500 firearm dealers in California, Arizona, New Mexico and Texas to report all sales of two or more semiautomatic rifles within five consecutive business days, if the rifles are larger than .22 caliber and use detachable magazines. Yet, under existing law, the bureau has full access to every record of every firearm transaction by every licensed dealer, whether during a bona fide criminal investigation or simply to enforce compliance with record keeping requirements. This reporting scheme would create a registry of owners of many of today’s most popular rifles – firearms owned by millions of Americans for self-defense, hunting and other lawful purposes.

      • independant thinker

        I saw that, good for them.

        “if the rifles are larger than .22 caliber and use detachable magazines”

        The above quote shows the BATF is not serious about actualy doing anything about the gun problem. Supposedly one of the primary guns being purchased and carried over the border is the AR-15. Almost all ARs are 22 caliber (223 is the official diameter of a 22 caliber round) so their proposed regulation will accomplish nothing. Of course I am sure you know as I do that the gun problem in Mexico is not caused by “gun runners” carrying firearms from the US to Mexico.

  • Roger from OH

    Hi folks,

    I haven’t read every word everyone has written, but I hereby presume to “sum up”.

    To all libertarians, those to the right of center, centrists, those to the left of center. I have a simple message.

    We’ve gotta stop bickering. There’s plenty of blame to go around. If you aren’t part of the political class (with perhaps a few exceptions), etc., you’re their prey; no, we’re their prey.

    To paraphrase Ben Franklin: “If we don’t hang together, surely we’ll hang separately.” We’re in this together, regardless of our political persuasion.

    Mr. Stansberry has some great insights, and we all need to take them to heart.

  • S.C.Murf

    Hey people, I do believe this is the first time that on this page almost everyone is ON the same page. Maybe you would like to join us jovbob?

    up the hill

  • Carl

    if you put a fox in charge of the hen house, should you complain if the chickens come up missing…….if you put dishonest politicians in charge of the treasury [directly or indirecly] is it not the same….
    Where we voters fail is electing honest people to office. We do not do our research further than what party they belongs to….we should do some background checking…if he has cheated on his taxes; has a rep as a liar; never held a steady job….kinda family he comes from…things like this……that usually gives some indication…. Try getting a loan with out the creditor checking you credit score……there is a reason….not 100% accurate, but a yard stick……if we [the voters] do elect a crook……he only gets the one term and we vote him out……
    The voter has the power, because if you don’t vote him/her in, they don’t serve…. every congressman/woman on capital hill was elected by the people…….if you elect, you can also unelect…..I think the Tea Party has the right idea and it is this group we should support.
    If we put them in,,, we can take them out…….

  • http://google mike b.

    This was Hussein Obama MO from the time he was elected to office. Destroy the U.S. dollar and make the world dependent on more government intrusion. How’s the ” Hope and Change” working out for you now all you gullable nieve voters. Maybe we ought to elect another mooslem pres. in 2012 and/or 2016 and get some more of this great, wonderful “Change”. By the way, you sure wont hear this from Hussein Obama and his minions in the mainstream media and union THUGS protesting in Wis. but AMERICA IS BROKE and goods and products are gonna sky-rocket and gas is on its way to well above 4$ a gallon. As lons as Bush is president it will stay high, oh, forgot, hes been gone for three years and its gonna be higher than ever, as is un-employment, inflation and un-rest in the Middle East. Hussein Obama and his marxist, anti-american Rev. Wright-style hatred for U.S. and his new 400,000 new IRS agents, pushed by his minions in Acorn, the mainstream media and Union Thugs who got him elected have succeded in “Changing America”. Great job idiot voters all we need is another Hussein to keep this great progress going. Hell, thanks for nothing, my kids and grandkids and my employess at my family private business that ive had to lay off have one thing to say; Change this crap back to America before its too late, if its not already. God bless America, forgive me Lord but even you may not be able to get us out of this crap.

  • kilrntex

    Haven’t checked out the comments in a while. Still see anti Americans defending their stupidity and the evil empire in charge. Yeah, blame it on Bush you dummies, but he has nothing to do with anything. Why do libs keep calling the rest of us what they see in the mirror? They know who the real RACIST, bigots, maggots and anti Americans are, they see them each day when they look at their sorry asses in the mirror. This whole scenario is getting boring and I’m ready for the whole thing to come to a head. As far as govt is concerned, there is only one cancer which has a cure and that is DC and the politicians who run it. Cut off the funds and starve the SOB to DEATH! A popular saying in Vietnam was “Kill them all and let God sort them out”! In this case that would be Satan, because these are his people in DC. And talk about protest, this country needs about 10 million real Americans to go to DC and oust the whole bunch out on their heads and replace them with normal people who care about the future of this country and what our children have to look forward to. We don’t need a revolution as La Raza(Ron Gochez) and New Blk Panthers(Van Jones?) are calling for. We just need to return to what this country represents in the world——FREEDOM, Christianity and a chance to make something of ourselves. A revolution will fail, because millions of Patriots like me are armed to the teeth, pissed off at what has happened to the country and just looking for a reason to get some payback to the people who screwed us over in Vietnam. They are the scum in power in DC. You know what they say about payback!

    • Lewis Munn

      Our money is gone, so we cannot afford to go to Washington to oust the problems!

      We are not the illegals who are paid to protest and march from someone’s unlimuited funds!

  • Void1972

    Incredible and bizarre as it sounds, humanity is indeed the victim of a diabolical conspiracy.
    War, depression and genocide in the past century were not accidental or inevitable but the result of malevolent design.
    Shocking evidence is a 1938 Stalinist police (NKVD) interrogation of a founder of the Communist International, Christian G. Rakovsky, 65, who was facing execution for plotting to overthrow Stalin.
    The 50-page transcript of his interrogation, dubbed “The Red Symphony,” was not meant to become public. It confirms that the Rothschild-Illuminati planned to use Communism to establish a world dictatorship of the super rich.
    This is perhaps the most explosive political document in modern history. It reveals why the Illuminati created Hitler and then sought to destroy him, and why Stalin made a pact with Hitler in 1939.
    Christian Rakovsky was a veteran Communist insider. Born Chaim Rakeover in 1873, he studied medicine in France before becoming a revolutionary. He was the leader of a terror group that attacked government officials.
    In 1919, Lenin put him in charge of the Soviet Ukraine government. He successfully kept the area for the Bolsheviks during the Civil War. Stalin appointed him Russian ambassador to Paris in 1925.
    Rakovsky belonged to the powerful Trotskyite faction that took their orders from the Rothschilds. Many of this group were shot in Stalin’s 1937 Communist Party purge.

    The circumstances of the midnight interrogation Jan. 26, 1938 were very dramatic.
    What could Rakovsky possibly say to save his life?
    Rakovsky appears to use the tactic of “deceiving with the truth.” He wins trust by revealing the truth but leaves some of it out. He tries to impress his interrogator that he and Trotsky represent an invincible power he calls the “Capitalist-Communist Financial International.”
    He confirms that the “revolutionary movement” was designed to enlist support by pretending to serve mankind’s moral and collective ideals. The real aim however is to give total world power to the bankers by dividing society and undermining established authority.
    “Revolution” really means, “overturning” Western civilization.
    “Christianity is our only real enemy since all the political and economic phenomena of the bourgeois states are only its consequences,” Rakovsky, says. (Griffin, p. 264)
    Peace is “counter-revolutionary” since it is war that paves the way for revolution.
    Rakovsky, whose tongue was loosened by a mild inebriant in his wine, refers to the Illuminati as “they” or “them.” He is a member although not part of the inner circle.
    He explains that the “Illuminati” is a Masonic secret society dedicated to Communism. Significantly, its founder Adam Weishaupt took the name from “the second anti-Christian conspiracy of that era, gnosticism.” (249)

  • http://google mike b.

    By the way, from the looks of things around the world and US it looks like Hussein Obama has brought everybody together and the whole world is getting along great, just as his minions in the mainstream media predicted.

    • Lewis Munn

      Mike b,

      You must be looking at a different world, or in a reversing mirror.

      Here things are getting progressively worse, with attempts on nearly every part of the Bill of Rights. Pun only partially intended!

      Like in Orell’s “1984″, where every good or bad phrase was replaced by a mirror image. “Peace is War” for example.

      Enjoy your ethical reversing lense, while you can, until truth catches up to you unmistakably. Then where will you hide?

  • JeffH

    House Votes to Deny Obama Healthcare Law Funds
    WASHINGTON — The Republican-controlled House voted Friday to choke off cash to fund President Barack Obama’s healthcare reform law, stepping up a fight with Democrats over budget cuts and deficits.

    The move against the 2010 healthcare law — one of Obama’s main legislative victories — is certain to be rejected in the Democratic-led Senate, but it has escalated tensions over federal spending that could lead to a government shutdown.

    Instead of searching for common ground, this amendment intensifies warfare,” Democratic Rep. Sander Levin said. “The Republicans have become a wrecking crew.”
    Levin’s common ground equates to a compromise rather than completely defunding the financial monstrosity camouflaged as Health Care Reform

    • http://naver sook young

      I know. Isn’t it great? Thank you.

      Sook Young
      Wife of the Samurai

    • Lewis Munn

      Protecting the common citizen is an act of War? If so, intensify the War!

  • JeffH

    House Votes to Dethrone Obama’s Czars
    The czars whose funding would be eliminated under the amendment include the health-reform czar, climate-change envoy czar, the green jobs czar, Guantanamo Bay closure czar, the TARP oversight czar, and the auto manufacturing czar, and the FCC diversity czar.

    By far the most controversial official who would be out of a job is Mark Lloyd, the FCC diversity czar.

    Lloyd cites author and radical organizer Saul Alinsky as a source of inspiration, and has praised Venezuela President Hugo Chavez for his “incredible” attainment of a “democratic revolution.” He favors re-implementation of the Fairness Doctrine through what is known as local-content restrictions, and has called Thomas Jefferson’s maxim “That government is best which governs least” an “outdated canard.”

    • http://naver sook young

      Thank you for the information. Now I feel happier. Thank you.

      Sook Young
      Wife of the Samurai

    • JC

      America doesn’t need Czar’s or any other Governmental Feifdom’s in DC.

  • http://com i41

    Hope they defund Government Electric idoit job czar who took 138 billion of stimulas taxpayers money to China, for green energy jobs. Sure helped China and Chinese workers, kind of screwwed the taxpayers and the unemployed Americans here.

  • Bert Cundle

    Politicans, Act with out Reason! Cutting Spending or Cutting Taxes…
    Trying to do both, is Dumb! If we are T’s.$ in Debt…Since the only President, from a Surplus. Says Something! We have some real house Cleaning to do! Not brag of B’s $ Cuts ( 1,000.B’s = 1 T’s…) We NEED TO KNOW ~ WHO The DEBT is TOO!!! & WHY!!! But The Government , making more jobs, Makes More Spending With Insificent Revinue, for the expense… Simple MATH.!

    • fanofthefounders

      The simple fact is that everytime taxes are cut, revenue to the Tres. goes up not down. So you can cut taxes and spending at the same time.

  • Dan az

    A bit off the subject but this is what we need in the house and senate.
    Prime Minister Julia Gillard – Australia

    Muslims who want to live under Islamic Sharia law were told on Wednesday to get out of Australia , as the government targeted radicals in a bid to head off potential terror attacks..

    Separately, Gillard angered some Australian Muslims on Wednesday by saying she supported spy agencies monitoring the nation’s mosques. Quote:
    ‘IMMIGRANTS, NOT AUSTRALIANS, MUST ADAPT.. Take It Or Leave It. I am tired of this nation worrying about whether we are offending some individual or their culture. Since the terrorist attacks on Bali , we have experienced a surge in patriotism by the majority of Australians. ‘

    ‘This culture has been developed over two centuries of struggles, trials and victories by millions of men and women who have sought freedom’

    ‘We speak mainly ENGLISH, not Spanish, Lebanese, Arabic, Chinese, Japanese, Russian, or any other language. Therefore, if you wish to become part of our society . Learn the language!’

    ‘Most Australians believe in God.. This is not some Christian, right wing, political push, but a fact, because Christian men and women, on Christian principles, founded this nation, and this is clearly documented It is certainly appropriate to display it on the walls of our schools. If God offends you, then I suggest you consider another part of the world as your new home, because God is part of our culture.’

    ‘We will accept your beliefs, and will not question why All we ask is that you accept ours, and live in harmony and peaceful enjoyment with us.’

    ‘This is OUR COUNTRY, OUR LAND, and OUR LIFESTYLE, and we will allow you every opportunity to enjoy all this. But once you are done complaining, whining, and griping about Our Flag, Our Pledge, Our Christian beliefs, or Our Way of Life, I highly encourage you take advantage of one other great Australian freedom, ‘THE RIGHT TO LEAVE’.’ ‘If you aren’t happy here then LEAVE. We didn’t force you to come here.. You asked to be here. So accept the country YOU accepted.’

    • JC

      Good on them for having that sentiment.
      But! If the government there is so benevolent and wants only to protect Australians…why have they disarmed them?

      • Kate8

        JC – Exactly. They also have very curtailed speech.

        • http://?? Joe H.

          I went to Sydney on my second R&R from RVN in 71, and loved the hell out of that town. Wonderful people and beautiful city! Heard though it has changed emensly since then!! Too bad!!

  • Charles

    Saul Alansky is one of the most dangerous men in America.

    • JeffH

      Charles, he’s been dead(1909-1972)for quite some time now but he is the father of the Marxist movement and wrote the rules for he Marxist organizers, Rules for Radicals. We see is tactics used daily on this website.

  • Charles

    Roger from Ohio,
    The fight against Obama and his Progressive Loons is not only a
    Republican fight, it is also a Democrat fight. Together,the Democrats,Independents and Republicans can and will defeat Obama
    and his Marxist friends, if this country is to be saved. The American
    people will have spoken,not any one party.

  • Nicki

    I think when you get everything pretty much free from government. You feel that government you should be trusting but pretty much they treat the fools to become the fools. SOme America is brain wash by our new leader in the house and this people is the people never pay taxes in their lives.ANd we also have alots of greed in the country. It’s pretty much me want more. This country have more evil then good one. The good one keep their mouth shut and their door close. If we make mistake again remember people we will have to go through this again 100yrs from now.

  • Charles

    The first big battle has begun in Wis. The Marxist union big shots
    have got their rank and file all wound up and into the streets.The
    rank and file don`t realize we are all in this together.Every one
    are going to have to give. Ask the union big shots how much money
    of their union dues they gave to Obama and his bunch of Progressives.
    You the teachers, should know of all people how to add and subtract.
    You should know what the unions have done in Europe. Europe is broke and so are we.There is no money and if you keep pushing for more and
    more you will end up with nothing. You leaders,like Obama are leading
    you down the path of destruction. Maybe, you are all Marxist and don`t
    care, or your to stupid to see it. It scares me to think some of you are teaching my children.Believe me, we will remember you when the next school levy comes up. The greed that you are showing is going to hurt you in the long run.

    • http://deleted Claire

      Charles: I was born in Wisconsin, and I have many many relatives that live in Wisconsin and some of them belong to a union. I am on their side at this point in time.

      • Mick

        Claire says:
        February 18, 2011 at 10:25 pm
        Charles: I was born in Wisconsin, and I have many many relatives that live in Wisconsin and some of them belong to a union. I am on their side at this point in time.

        Claire,,i usually see your point of view however on this issue i have to totally disagree, the unions are pure poison..

        • http://deleted Claire

          Mick: There is good and bad in everything. Years and years ago, when unions first came into being, they were good for the American worker. And now a lot of the unions are poison, but when it comes to my family, I will be on their side, through thick and thin, right or wrong. And the good Lord knows I have been wrong many times in my lifetime. I do not profess to know it all, nor do I force my beliefs on anyone else. My Wisconsin relatives are good people, they are hard workers and I love them dearly. A number of my relatives are protesting, and I will support them in their decision.

    • http://deleted Claire

      Charles: The corporations support the Republicans and the unions support the Democrats. This is precisely why the Republicans are trying to do away with the unions.

      • http://?? Joe H.

        ‘m not trying to jump on you, but one big reason the states are trying to do away with the unions is the amount of money the unions are costing them! The states are going broke and all the unions can do is demand more money!! They don’t give a good dam whether you or I can afford to pay more taxes or not! All they care about is getting more money for themselves through their membership!!! They are now unAmerican in that they want to do away with secret ballots so they can bully anyone that votes against them, even to the point of bringing outsiders that have nothing to do with the negotiations to start trouble!! I have been a member of three different unions as a second shift worker, the IBEW, the teamsters, and the UAW and all three of them did nothing but cost the company so much money that they laid off the second shift in all three instances!! they can all go to he!! as far as I’m concerned!! The first time my wife was pregnamt with my first kid. do you think they gave a dam?? NO!

        • JC

          All you need to do is look at California and Detroit to see what Unions do to a free market.

          • JeffH

            It’s the “public” unions that are bleeding the state and federal cofers.

            How Severe is U.S. pension debt? The[union]pension debt — estimated in California alone at $500 billion, according to a recent Stanford study. The nationwide debt is more than $3 trillion. The state of New Jersey settled this month with the Securities and Exchange Commission. As the Newark Star-Ledger explained: “For years, New Jersey had been cooking its books and neglecting to tell investors it was grossly underfunding pension plans.” Although California and New Jersey have taken the pension-abuse situation to the extreme, it remains a nationwide problem.

  • http://com i41

    Claire, you are ignorgant about corporations, they all support democrats, with the regulations to limit private businesses and dems are the idoits who give the tax breaks and special breaks (health care) waivers. Private citizens get hosed and muslims, union and corporations get the waivers. Wall Street slubs and people like Geithner get to make millions doing nothing, all corrupt democrat stooges, who live off of the working stiffs. Teachers in unions only care how much they can get for working only 9 months. Caring for the “children” but going on strike and taking kids to swell the ranks, talk about caring for children> They should be charged with child abuse, same thing as some freak claiming to care for animals, but not feeding or watering them when ever they get a bug up their rear.

    • http://deleted Claire

      i41–Go ahead, call me ignorant, it doesn’t bother me. You have your opinions, I have mine. Freedom of speech—I will say what I want, just like everyone else on this site.

      • JeffH

        Claire, just ignore i41. Those of us that have gotten to know you know differently. You aren’t partisan and you speak honestly…I think it’s a good trait. You go girl!

  • Bert Cundle


  • Pete

    Hey, it’s all out of control. As the country gets less Christian we will argue more. No concord … The non christian population’s influence has reached critical mass and will effect and infect your reasoning powers …

    So I recommend you all get selfish and learn some technology, build your own gadgets for defense and survival …

    If you are going to hoard gold/silver remember it all can be stolen/seized in a minute … it’s what you know that will get you thru …

  • Bert Cundle

    The Problem is CHRISTIANITY!!! When the Government Was Religiously LIBERAL… We were far better!!!

    • JC

      Bert, since “liberal” is now code for “communist” you might want to clarify that comment.

      • eddie47d

        …and the “code word” for Conservatives is Fascism. We can both play that little game of yours.

        • JeffH

          eddie, JC isn’t playing a game whereas you are…big difference.

        • JC

          eddie, the whole damned system is fascist and has been for a long time.
          Conservatives and classic liberals are not the reason….Progressives masquerading as liberals and Republicans / Neo-Cons masquerading as Conservatives are too. (so I stand corrected in using the term liberal wrongly)

          And since you seem at a loss in understanding what fascism is,
          here you go…
          Fascism 101:

          Fascism is, put briefly, a system of social organization in which the political state is a dictatorship supported by a political elite and in which the economic society is an autarchic capitalism, enclosed and planned, in which the government assumes responsibility for creating adequate purchasing power through the instrumentality of national debt and in which militarism is adopted as a great economic project for creating work as well as a great romantic project in the service of the imperialist state.
          Broken down, it includes these devices:

          1. A government whose powers are unrestrained.

          2. A leader who is a dictator, absolute in power but responsible to the party which is a preferred elite.

          3. An economic system in which production and distribution are carried on by private owners but in accordance with plans made by the state directly or under its immediate supervision.

          4. These plans involve control of all the instruments of production and distribution through great government bureaus which have the power to make regulations or directives with the force of law.

          5. They involve also the comprehensive integration of government and private finances, under which investment is directed and regimented by the government, so that while ownership is private and production is carried on by private owners there is a type of socialization of investment, of the financial aspects of production. By this means the state, which by law and by regulation can exercise a powerful control over industry, can enormously expand and complete that control by assuming the role of banker and partner.

          6. They involve also the device of creating streams of purchasing power by federal government borrowing and spending as a permanent institution.

          7. As a necessary consequence of all this, militarism becomes an inevitable part of the system since it provides the easiest means of draining great numbers annually from the labor market and of creating a tremendous industry for the production of arms for defense, which industry is supported wholly by government borrowing and spending.

          8. Imperialism becomes an essential element of such a system where that is possible — particularly in the strong states, since the whole fascist system, despite its promises of abundance, necessitates great financial and personal sacrifices, which people cannot be induced to make in the interest of the ordinary objectives of civil life and which they will submit to only when they are presented with some national crusade or adventure on the heroic model touching deeply the springs of chauvinistic pride, interest, and feeling.

          Where these elements are found, there is fascism, by whatever name the system is called

          Now which part of that is NOT part of our system? BOTH SIDES!

  • jopa

    Claire;You have it exactly right.Corporations support republicans and unions support the democrats.Also your comment about Soros and the Koch brothers is right on the money.No pun intended.The main problem is our lobbyists with all the cash in hand giving it to both parties is making our votes void.The supposed representatives in Washington don’t represent us whatsoever and they only take the side of big banks, corporations and big oil.The working class of tomorrow are going to be slaves and paupers.

  • chuckb

    unions should never have been allowed in the public school system or for government workers. the unions are one of the main reasons the teachers are failing to educate.
    the unions have forced the california certification for a teacher down to a fourth grade level examination and at that they have a high level of failure. this is passed on to the students. i’m not saying all teachers are subject to this criticism, however, check it out.
    the unions have destroyed california financially.
    check out the salaries and benefits california teachers and other state workers have compared to private industry. the last i checked and this has been years ago, the average teacher in calif. is paid $60,000 per year plus all their benefits and they work nine month’s.
    the unions cry for more each year.
    and they support the democratic party.

    this society does not need unions any longer, only people who can’t hold a job cry out for the unions. check out most state and federal workers.

  • jopa

    chuckb;Teachers making $60,000 with a four year degree is not much money at all in todays world.School superintendants non uniom in some parts of Pennsylvania are making over $200,000.Everybody always wants to pick on the little guy.

    • Mick

      jopa says:
      February 19, 2011 at 7:51 pm
      chuckb;Teachers making $60,000 with a four year degree is not much money at all in todays world.School superintendants non uniom in some parts of Pennsylvania are making over $200,000.Everybody always wants to pick on the little guy
      jopa ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,if you think $60,000 isn’t much money just because teachers have a four year degree you must be very greedy,first of all most of these degrees aren’t worth the cost of the paper they’re printed on, people have to have some common sense left before being able to teach others and we all know that college and common sense doesn’t mix, second , many people would be in heaven if they could believe that they could achieve the goal of $60,000 a year in their whole life time.
      We’re paying filet mignon prices for education and get mediocrity in return, so much for the saying ” YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR “.

    • Pete

      That’s 60,000 /yr for a fancy baby-sitter. Them baby-sitters go to college for 4 years and get a nice salary ! That’s America ! More power to you !

      The current trend is to break promises. When the economy was good under Clinton, and everyone was getting rich – people paid their debts and kept their promises. The Federal Government should keep it’s promises and pay it’s obligations and debts !

      People are starving right now, but them Tea Party Republicans keep blocking unemployment benefits. Them people on unemployment just want some of their money back ! Money they paid in taxes !! They aren’t parasites …

    • http://?? Joe H.

      divide that 60,000 by three and then multiply by four!! Comes to 100,000 that is actually their salary per year!! That 60,000 is in 9 months, not 12!!

      • http://?? Joe H.

        Excuse me I meant 80,000 a year, which isn’t that bad for a four year degree. In some districts the start pay is 42,000. not all that bad for starting wage!!

  • chuckb

    jopa, that’s the “starting wage” and i’m sure it’s more today, that figure came from ten or more years ago. at that time if i remember correctly it amounted to around 75.000 counting the benefits. they have a nine month work period.

    i knew a person who worked at one of the state colleges and gave the test for the teachers to receive their certification, she claimed sixty percent of the people taking the exam, considered to be a 4th grade level exam, failed.
    there are many who attended the universities who failed also. i have no personable complaints against teachers in general, however, i do think they should be graded on a higher level. the unions are responsible for this, the state legislatures have their hands in the unions pocket. until this is corrected we will never see improvement in the school system.

    • http://?? Joe H.

      I agree, and the brightest of the best should be doing the teaching, not the dimmest!!!

  • Pete

    All an individual has to do is work harder and smarter. That means use technology.

    Most Americans are fat and lazy . Driving around in their oversized gas guzzling SUV’s. Americans pass crazy zoning laws in their communities. It’s a miracle that any business wants to stay here !

    The good news is CHina isn’t going to last to long as an economic giant. China’s economic growth will slow down. It will get to expensive to manufacture (and ship) goods from China – because decentralized micro manufacturing is the future.

    Hey Mr. Stansberry ! I’m just giving my crazy opinion !

    But seriously, Mr. Stansberry – have you ever considered running for President of the USA ? As long as your Pro-Life I would vote for you ….

    • bob wire

      As long as his priories are equal to the born as well as the unborn, as long as he accepts the notion of personal liberties and that government has little reason to be in the bedroom or doctors office, honors and accepts the Hyde amendment in both word and spirit, I have no objection.

  • Mick

    Claire says:
    February 19, 2011 at 8:11 am
    Mick: There is good and bad in everything. Years and years ago, when unions first came into being, they were good for the American worker. And now a lot of the unions are poison, but when it comes to my family, I will be on their side, through thick and thin, right or wrong. And the good Lord knows I have been wrong many times in my lifetime. I do not profess to know it all, nor do I force my beliefs on anyone else. My Wisconsin relatives are good people, they are hard workers and I love them dearly. A number of my relatives are protesting, and I will support them in their decision.
    Claire ……Your comment about when it comes to your family you will be on their side weather they’re right or wrong bother’s me, this type of attitude is one of the big problem with our country, nobody want to hold one of their own responsible although we all have black sheep in our families.Letting wrong doers get away with their misdeeds just because they’re family is absurd in my view, by supporting their decisions makes you an enabler and we all know that enabling wrong doing only increase the rot in our society.
    You can love your family without agreeing with everything they do.

  • jopa

    Perhaps we could take a page out of the book that Finland uses.Their students have some of the highest test scores in the world in math and the sciences.What their education system does is recruit the best and the brightest from the the colleges rather than wait for walk-ins that apply for teaching careers in the US.Hey if it works for Finland why not America.

  • jopa

    chuckb;Trying to figure out what it is you are trying to say.The sixty percent that failed the test your friend gave failed.Did they receive their certification and get hired or did they go back to school?If they failed the test they wouldn’t be teaching.Then you go on to say the unions are responsible for bad teachers.The unions don;t screen teachers when they apply for a job or any other profession.What the unions do is protect the worker once they have the job against abuse,safety, a living wage and in some cases health benefits.If you call for corrections make the call in the right place.Thank you

    • http://?? Joe H.

      we had a first grade teacher here that started out as a very good teacher but got tired of the job. Instead of looking for another job, she would set the kids in front of a tv and read the paper and do other things. When one of the students told their parents about it they went to the board. The board investigated, found it to be true, and wrote her up and informed her the next time she would be let go. Well the good ole union went to the board and told them if they fired the teacher they would go on strike! The teacher did this three times more and the board finally had no choice but to fire her. The union went out and the courts ordered them back to work as they determined the board was right in firing her. now, you tell me who is right????

  • Bert Cundle

    If The FALL of AMERICA is BASED ON OUR DEBTS… // MUST ADD: WHO TOO; & WHON OWES US, & HOW MUCH!!!!! We should be back in the GREEN, when we are paid! Two MANY PEOPLE is TWO MUCH!!! The Immigrants are Costing us (U. S.)TWO MUCH!!!

  • Bert Cundle

    Politicans Must Stay Away From Social Security!!! It is NOT PART OF THE GENERAL FUND!!! OR THEIR PORK BARREL FUND!!!

  • chuckb

    jopa, i don’t have any idea what happens to those that fail, apparently, the way some of our kids are failing in school, it’s possible they certified them anyway.

    i didn’t say the unions screened the teachers, they are hired by the state. the curriculum for the schools is set by the state board of education and approved by the state legislature. the state legislatures approval is governed by the teachers union, this is what our news media reported. it is very hard to get information through this entanglement of political agencies. in california one hand does not know what the other hand doeth. the unions control the legislature thru this process. the legislature’s hand and job is in the unions pocket.
    the media reported the state examination to certify a teacher amounted to a 4th grade eximination.

  • chuckb

    jopa, when gray davis was governor (1999-2003) of california the unions demanded smaller class rooms, this created a teacher shortage and at that time they approved of hiring teachers that could not pass certification. they hired a considerable amount of un-qualified people to teach and as far as i know they are still in the system.

  • jopa

    chuckb;Just like federal jobs,once they have their foot in the door there is no getting rid of them.Even if their programs become obsolete the agency they are in just keeps chugging along bleeding the taxpayers dry.I must admit though when i watched Are You Smarter Than a Fifth grader I was stumped on some of those questions.Could have a dash of alzheimer’s.

  • JR-AZ

    AHHH. Divide and conquer is how government wins. RE: Look at what’s happening in Wisconsin between governmemt, the union and the Tea Party. The only way to stop the divide and conquer government way is to be fair to ALL citizens – if budget is 9% over then cut ‘ALL’ items in the budget by 9% with NO EXEMPTIONS. Every budget in the world has a minimum of 5% fat in it anyway. If we’re all in this together then let’s all of us share the pain.

    Continued debt spending will seriously effect our grandchildren’s standard of living.

  • chuckb

    jopa, google: :”eighth grade eximination” that one made me stop and think. when i first ran into this i copied it off for a couple of teacher friends, one a high school teacher and neither one could complete it. i doubt if most college students could.
    it goes to show how much our education system has gone south.

  • http://none BAP362

    I point the finger at both of our political parties. None of our so called leaders or elected officials is doing anything about this country’s downfall. All our so called leaders care about is their own elected job. We either need a revolution at the ballot box, and get rid the current set of cronies, and change them for people with new, and correct thinking, or we will have a revolution in the streets just like they are having in the middle east right now.

    • JC

      The Board of Directors of USA INC. is too busy merging with GLOBALISM INC. to worry about how the inventory, (we the people)are doing.
      Looks like “we the inventory” better start looking out for ourselves.


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