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America’s No. 1 Export

June 13, 2012 by  

America’s No. 1 Export
PHOTOS.COM
America is arguably the world’s No. 1 exporter of terrorism.

What does America export more than anything else? It’s terrorism.

In fact, America is arguably the world’s No. 1 exporter of terrorism. According to the Bureau of Investigative Journalism, between 2004 and 2012 the United States used unmanned drones to strike between 364 and 436 times. There were also another couple of hundred strikes by U.S. aircraft and covert operations teams.

The resulting carnage:

  •  Total killed: 2,854-4,182
  • Civilians killed: 551-1,834
  • Children killed: 200-203

The strikes have occurred in places you’d expect — Pakistan, Yemen and Somalia — and in places you wouldn’t — like the Philippines. And these numbers don’t count U.S. and NATO strikes in Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya and Syria.

In Libya, NATO forces killed thousands of innocents directly by dropping bombs in cities and indirectly by funding, arming and providing logistical support to the al-Qaida-backed “opposition” group that ousted Moammar Gadhafi. The same logistical support and arming is now being provided to the Syrian al-Qaida terror group.

President Barack Obama and his campaign guru David Axelrod personally oversee a weekly powwow in which targets are identified, indicating that political considerations may trump “security” considerations in decisions on who is killed. And to ensure that he kills only “terrorists,” Obama has redefined who qualifies. Now it’s any male in the neighborhood. U.S. citizens aren’t safe from Obama’s wrath either — just ask Anwar al-Awlaki. Unfortunately, he’s no longer able to answer.

And not only is the regime enabling terrorists, it has trained them as well.

We are told we are in constant danger from terrorists. But there have been no terror attacks in the United States that were not enabled by the FBI, CIA or shadow government entities. These include 9/11, the first underwear bomber, the second underwear bomber, the amateurish attempt to fly a radio-controlled airplane into the Pentagon and the so-called “hit” on a Saudi Arabian ambassador by a Mexican drug cartel.

And to keep us safe we are watched by drones in the sky, cameras on street corners and agents from the Department of Homeland Security — an agency that employs pedophiles, perverts and thieves — who want to frisk and search us everywhere we go.

Rather than trucks loaded with fertilizer, the new terror weapon of choice is the unmanned drone. Obama’s finger is on the trigger, and the United States has a monopoly.

Bob Livingston

is an ultra-conservative American who has been writing a newsletter since 1969. Bob has devoted much of his life to research and the quest for truth on a variety of subjects. Bob specializes in health issues such as nutritional supplements and alternatives to drugs, as well as issues of privacy (both personal and financial), asset protection and the preservation of freedom.

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  • Warrior

    Doesn’t seem like that long ago someone received a nobel piece prize and many wondered what qualities must one possess to be recognized for such achievement. Hmmm, seems like identifying those qualities is as difficult as identifying where “stimulus” dollars end up. Go figure!

    • Disgusted with both turds

      OOps! now now. Everyone knows that all agression has been Bushs’ fault. Obama can do no wrong. Even the casualties in Libya has been the fault of Bush. The Democrat drones are thoroughly convinced that bush and Haliburton is the cause of all our woes. Even a republican can understand that. They can’t find the real place of birth of this Nobel peace prize winner much less who really starts all these wars. It’s just the nature of the beast. The events happening in the mideast will soon spill over to the homeland to
      keep the peace maker in office. God help us all. Too bad the Paul Rloveution is on hold.

      • eddie47d

        Drones: Coming to a neighborhood near you! I don’t believe Ron Paul would approve of Drones whether in foreign or domestic situations. He also didn’t approve of the war in Iraq, Afghanistan,Yemen or Libya. I don’t approve of any President attacking any sovereign nation in an attempt to force them into our way of life. Force seldom works and usually creates more animosity towards us. Our nation has become a useful tool for dictators around the world to rally their citizens against us. Which in turn allows terrorism to build and to flourish. Then comes a bigger defense budget to combat the terrorism that we helped to create.

      • Murray

        OB is doing the Job Bush could not do.

      • Patriot1776

        @Murray, “OB is doing the job Bush could not do”. I guess I can’t argue with you on that, obama has successfully destroyed our economy with his useless stimulus spending, he continues the war while convincing those who drink the kool-aid that he is opposed to war, he has now taken on the task of assassin. He has attempted to shred the Constitution and yet is able to keep nearly half of America thinking that he is good for this country. He is wrecking the power generation industry through endless regulation and at the same time his EPA goon squad is attacking the evil civilians who think that they have a right to own and develop their own land.

        Yes, he is doing the job that Bush could not do, because Bush is an American and believes in capitalism. Obama is doing the job that Bush would not do.

        • RON.PAUL.2012

          No, Bush jr. is a POS who *FAKED* his TX Air Guard service…He NEVER DID learn to fly…
          Never got his pilot’s license, did he?… Bush sr. sky-dives, but not junior, right?… The Repubtards and Demi-craps are both the same… Yes, Obama is no better, or worse, than *EITHER* Bush…

      • Karolyn

        Speaking of Ron Paul, here is a very interesting take on him being a phony.
        http://realcurrencies.wordpress.com/2012/06/13/five-more-reasons-ron-paul-was-a-phoney-all-along/

      • Drifter

        RonPaul.2012

        I know that Paul is for the legalization of drugs but I don’t think he is trying to extoll their extensive use as you are advertizing, here…

      • Average Joe

        Karolyn,

        You are offering up an opinion piece…it has no validity…. other than it strokes the author’s ego…”Look! I wrote something…and it was published”…the sad thing occurs…. when people look at this as something other than one man’s opinion.
        Again, this piece is opinion..nothing more…nothing less. He has taken statements from others and applied his “take” (opinion) on those statements.
        Maybe in the future, it would be better to go to the source of those statements to find out the source’s take on the comment….rather than a third party version of events….Just a suggestion…..

      • Karolyn

        I am finding what people are writing on skeptic websites to be very thought-provoking. If we only listen to one opinion (our own), we are bound to be pretty limited in our views. I am especially surprised at what I’m finding about the libertarian movement having been connected to communism via funding from the Rothschilds and Rockefellers. Very interesting stuff. The people who are supposedly working to control the world helped to start the movement. It shows that they have a hand in EVERYTHING.

  • Combustioneed

    Most of this argument is weak. To label any military activity as terrorism is rediculous. To label NATO strikes as terrorism is to call every nation in that alliance a terrorist group. I don’t disagree with you about the rediculous awarding of the ig-Nobel prize to a presidential candidate who had no accomplishments to his name, but that award has been hollow since being given to Yasser Arafat. Yes this president is the packing most corrupt in our nations history but he has only terrorized his own people, assuming of course that he is Ameri an. The world will be a better place when he is returned to private life in November. The job then becomes keeping him out of the United Nations. It seems apparent to me but his goal is to make the US Constitution subordinate to the UN and then take the post as chancellor of the world. He has the same aspirations as a man in 1930′s Germany.

  • dan

    force is terrorism….it’s justifiable when YOUR side is wielding it.
    Do it in the name of heaven,you can justify it in the end.

    • http://www.facebook.com/TheRealFatherOMalley Gary Vincent O’Malley

      If a person is beating up on another and you use force to subdue the attacker how is this terrorism? The killing of civilians in the Middle East is due mainly to the vermin that hide behind civilians and the civilians that ALLOW IT. I guess with the current attitude toward American “terrorism” we could have never fire bombed Germany or dropped the A bomb to save millions of American lives.

      One last point dan, the true terrorists make women and children the targets, where we make combatants the target. If any conservative here can’t tell the difference I challenge their conservatism.

      • Nancy in Nebraska

        Did you even read the article? We HAVE killed women and children. Drones don’t care who they kill. Have you not seen the video from Wikileaks that showed the drone attack on jounalists? We are no better than them. We have become war mongers. You think that we are only trying to defend ourselves but the point of the article and the opinion of many including myself, is that the attacks against us were set into motion by our own government! It’s all been a sham to take away our rights and control us. The citizenry of this country is convinced that terrorists are out to get us. So they have allowed the government to do whatever it wants. Re-read the article. Do some research. There is more to this than meets the eye.

      • speedle

        Nancy, you have really bought into this “..the attacks against us were set into motion by our own government!..” prattle, and consequently you are unable to pursue any logical hypothesis related to dealing with those who threaten our country. Yes, there have been political decisions made in the past that were counterproductive to future relations with other countries. But in the interests of avoiding second guessing much of that was a response to priorities and needs of the day.

        Take the over hyped criticism of arming the Mujahideen with surface to air shoulder rockets to defeat the Soviets in Afghanistan. Now all we hear is “we armed the terrorists who caused 9-11. The fact is we were trying to keep the Soviets from controlling a part of the world that would enable them cause plenty of problems for the free world. In fact, helping their sorry butts being kicked out of Afghanistan kick started the overthrow of the Soviet Union. There are many other examples such as Panama and Grenada that were blatant affronts to your credo of “leaving everyone alone”.

        Sorry Nancy, “Isolationism” is no longer an option on this planet. In the long term Ostriches find that someone is kicking their behinds while their heads are in the sand.

      • Nancy in Nebraska

        Speedle, all I can say is you need to do some research. You come on here and challenge what I say without ever having read about the subject. I can guarantee you that if you had studied the subject as I have you would have no doubt either. All is not as it seems. A year ago, I felt as you do now. Educate yourself! NOTHING is what you think it is!

      • speedle

        Why don’t you educate me Nancy? Give me some facts (not placards and slogans) that support what you say.

      • Boatman

        So your solution to “somebody beating another person” is to blowed both of them off? Let me understand, if your neighbor is beating somebody next to you it is ok for china to blow him off and in the process killed everybody else around him? Including you and your family? So what was written in the constitution about no intervention means nothing? Worthless piece of paper.

      • Boatman

        To speedle, it is your responsability to educate yourself.

      • http://boblivingstonpl.wordpress.com Bob Livingston

        Dear speedle,

        You write: “Give me some facts (not placards and slogans) that support what you say.” We have—you and I—been down this road before. I give you as facts the hyperlinks in the article above. I give you as facts the links I provided for commenter Combustioneed above. I also give you the following:

        http://personalliberty.com/2011/09/05/911-questions-almost-nobodys-asking/
        http://personalliberty.com/2012/05/01/the-fbi-real-american-terrorists/
        http://personalliberty.com/2012/01/09/loving-our-enemies/

        The ball is now in your court. I expect you to do as you’ve done before; reject the evidence out of hand. I hope, however, you will at least consider it. If not, there is nothing more I can do for you.

        Best wishes,
        Bob

      • http://www.America-Betrayed-1787.com Dennis Oliver Woods

        Alliled firebombing of Dresden near the end of WW II was an act of deliberate terrorism against a civilian population of mostly women, children and war refugees. These were incendiary type bombs designed to create a tornado of fire, raging skyward and sucking everything living into the vortex. There were 3 waves, the 3rd coming when civilians from the countryside had rushed in to aid any survivors, thinking no one could be so inhumane as to bomb what amounted to a field hospital. Read David Irving’s, “The Battle of Dresden”. This total warfare cannot be justified from Scripture, although it was pioneered by Abraham Lincoln in the War of Northern Aggression.

      • speedle

        Bob Livingston, with all due respect, I have read your posts and all the things you point out are either random speculation or legitimate questions that have been logically explained over time. With regard to the twin towers I am not here to defend in ineptitude of the CIA, NSA or FBI in allowing 9/11 to come down on us. At the same time there is no way that a well financed and motivated terrorist organization can be completely neutralized before it commits acts in every single instance. Having a theory and then proceeding to try to find selective support to back it up is not exactly even handed.

        The same thing happened with the Kennedy assassination when all kinds of reputable people were convinced that Oswald was part of a conspiracy of several assassins. That debate went on for decades, and only recently have the overwhelming weight of evidence discredited every single theory at odds with the Warren commission findings. Now all these conspiracy theorists only give us the Rosanne Rosannadana response (never mind). Most of the time these catastrophic events are pretty much what they appear to be, and not the result of some sort of traitorous premeditated action by our own public servants.

        At the same time I do not want to appear naive enough to believe that politics (American or any other) are not slimy and underhanded in and of itself, and that many politicians are self serving and corrupt. That is evident by the actions of most of the Democrats now in power as well as a few of the Republicans. And there is nothing wrong with questioning the strategy of how elected officials deal with political matters, but aside from some of the actions of the current regime it seems a bit paranoid to always question the motivations as well as the strategy. The bureaucracy is and has always been filled with incompetency, and that means mistakes will always be made, but usually as a result of incompetence not conspiracy (They ain’t that smart).

        • http://boblivingstonpl.wordpress.com Bob Livingston

          Dear speedle,

          As I said before…

          You write: “Now all these conspiracy theorists only give us the Rosanne Rosannadana response (never mind).” Your use of “all” is over broad. There are many who still believe the Warren Commission is about as trustworthy as the 9/11 Commission. The only difference being, members of the 9/11 Commission admit they never got the truth. The Warren Commission’s lies continue to this day.

          Best wishes,
          Bob

    • jopa

      Do it in the name of heaven so you can justify it in the end. “One Tin Soldier” lyrics, great song for the also great Billy Jack movie.

      • speedle

        Since when did song writers become the gurus of the universe and final words on proper human deportment?

      • Nancy in Nebraska

        I don’t know, but I like it (the song and the movie).

      • Jimmy The Greek

        The movie was lame , In real life the bikers would have fed the savage to the birds .

    • Nancy in Nebraska

      Speedle, educate yourself! I don’t have time to do your homework AND mine! Google it. Read, follow links. Keep going, I guarantee you, you WILL find evidence that WILL convince you. There’s tons. At first you won’t believe but there are sources that you will trust.

      • speedle

        Nancy, you need to be able to discriminate between “evidence” and speculative theory. There is a huge difference (thank goodness). Otherwise half of the population would be in jail because of someone’s speculation and circumstantial evidence. All this “evidence” you cite makes for good entertainment and sometimes even food for thought, but one doesn’t make important decisions based upon the dubious proposals of conspiracy theories.

  • nc

    Mr. Livingston, it is quite difficult to picture just what the Oval Office would be like under your type of leadership where all the benefits of modern technology are surrendered to those who could use them against us! The 18th century playbook will not protect us!

    The vastness of the Atlantic and Pacific that were our 18th century protection has shrunk to the width of a stream in the modern world! The ability of the enemy to implant agents and recruit agents on oursoil is much greater today!
    The number of American citizens preaching armed resistance to the government is much larger as we see here in spades!
    Vigilance is not spying! Only paranoia makes vigilance into spying!!

  • WeRScrewed

    this article is liberal/progressive bias. it is NOT terrorism when your country is protecting itself against terrorism. The fact that the US has had minimal terrorist activity since 911 is directly related to the intelligence communities and our military working together to protect our national security. We are NOT exporting terrorism to destroy or oppress other nations/peoples.

    • RON.PAUL.2012

      Yeah, “WeR*SCREWED” because of idiotws like YOU!… We haven’t had any “terrorist acts”, since 9/11, because there aren’t that many terrorists in the world… That’s why U.S. MUST MANUFACTURE thesae terrorists, so they can “protect” us…Don’t you know how thiws game is played? Repubtards, or Demi-craps, same thing!… It’s ALL about money&power, or power&money, either way, same thing…You only have a little money&power, and you want more? Get a box-cutter, and hi-jack an airplane… You have a LOT of money&power, and you want more? Go to war in Iraq & Afghanistan…Same thing!…

      • Gordon

        3 years ago Obama himself stated that there are 70,000 radical muslim extremists in the United States of America (1% of 7 million). How many does it take to terrorize this Nation? An asteroid might hit, there might be massive drought, there might be a socio-economic collapse, marshall law, Yellowstone might explode, New Madrid might quake, Callifornia might slide off into the Pacific, solar flares might disable this Nation or the world, Jesus might come back…….. MIGHT…… One thing for SURE is that the muslims ARE in jihad and the United States of America IS a major target and WILL be attacked at the appropriate time. IMO it is way past time to take appropriate action, both Nationally and individually.

      • Jimmy The Greek

        Boy you got that right !

  • jenersea

    War is hell that is what Sherman said. If this country is not prepared to wage total war against its enemies then we should not be fighting the wars. In WW2 when fired upon they backed up and shelled the hell out of the town or city. Then they went in and found out who fired at them. Now, WW4 which we are fighting the only side that has to play by any rules is us. The enemy can do what they desire and it is okay, just as long as Americans are the ones being fired at.

    • Nancy in Nebraska

      When did world war III happen? Did I miss it?

      • http://www.facebook.com/onaje.asheber Onaje Asheber

        When Europe and it’s Kingdoms/Nations at the end of the 1400s begain to set sail around the Earth into non European lands this should be considered the first world war. Then count on from there. .

      • Nancy in Nebraska

        No thanks. I’m not into rewriting history.

    • Charlie Tall

      Sherman was a terrorist.

      • Jimmy The Greek

        That he was !

  • Nancy in Nebraska

    There is no liberal/progressive bias in this article. You’re only believing what the main stream media has told you. There is a lot more to the story. The terrorism brought to this country has been the work of our government. I know, it’s shocking. It’s unbelievable. That’s what I thought too, until I started researching. I know it’s scary but there’s tons of stuff out there. If you look and keep looking til you find sources you trust you will find what I’ve found and then you will be truly shocked. The evidence that our government committed the acts of terrorism against us (and others) is overwhelming.

    • Sanders

      NiN, its sounds like you are saying that our own government participated in or orchestrated attacks on the US. If this is your belief based on the “evidence” you have read then I would say you trust the wrong sources of information. You sound like one of those conspiracy theorists that claim our own government didn’t just let 911 happen but actually participated in it to justify the wars in the Middle East or allowed the bombing of Pearl Harbor to happen to justify the US getting into WWII.

      If this is the case then you have a sick mind, get some psychiatric help.

      • Boatman

        To Sanders, the evidence comes from our own government and you should have your head examined if you believe everything our government tells the American People and the world. The evidence is overwhelming and like Nancy said is shocking and unbelievable but is not impossible. They been practicing this missinformatiom for ages to further their agenda and fill their pockets. I mean even the lying main stream media every now and then reports about it. They could have prevented the attack on pearl harbor as the American embassador, joseph grew, to Japan received information one year before the attack about Japan’s intention but again our government failed to protect us. The same with 9/11 maybe the government did not participate in the attacked but it failed us not once or twice or three times but four times to protect their citizens and you are going to tell me that the biggest war machine in the history of the world with the biggest budget, over one thrilion dollars, failed to stop an attacked from a sick individual in a cave in afghanistan. If you believe that I have some wonderful land I like to sell to you in the Florida Everglades.

        • RON.PAUL.2012

          Rock on, Boatman, you’re on the right track…God Bless America… Look on Amazon for “Day of Deceit”, FDR & Pearl Harbor”, that’s a good start…

      • Average Joe

        Sanders,

        “its sounds like you are saying that our own government participated in or orchestrated attacks on the US. If this is your belief based on the “evidence” you have read then I would say you trust the wrong sources of information. ”

        Do you know what a false flag attack is? Do you know that the US Government has been caught many times over the years “creating’ false flag attacks against the people of the US?
        Operation Northwoods comes to mind right off the bat….

        http://www.bing.com/search?q=operation+northwoods&form=MSNH14&qs=AS&sk=&pq=operation+n&sp=1&sc=8-11

        The second Gulf of Tonkin (which never happened) was used as a pretext to fully ingage in Viet Nam.

        http://www.bing.com/search?q=second+gulf+of+tonkin+incident&form=MSNH14&x=117&y=11

        The attack by Israelies on the USS Liberty.

        http://www.bing.com/search?q=Attack+on+the+USS+Liberty&form=MSNH14&qs=AS&sk=AS2&pq=ruby+ridge&sp=3&sc=8-10&x=119&y=22

        How about the Branch Davidians? US and British civilians ( men, women, children and two pregnant women), murdered by our own government? Of the survivors, who were tried in a court of law, not one person was convicted of an crimes at all…..

        http://www.bing.com/search?q=branch+davidian+raid&qs=AS&form=QBRE&pq=branch+davidian&sc=8-15&sp=4&sk=AS3
        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bTg7Y9YJXR4&feature=related

        The first WTC bombing was “created” by our own FBI…they picked the perp, suplied the explosives and formulated the plan……but somehow it was “terrorists” who did this…yes it was…the terrorists were us……..

        http://911review.org/Wiki/FirstWTCBombing.shtml

        Maybe you missed the Alfred P. Murrah Federal Building in Oklahoma City in which 168 people were murdered?

        http://911review.com/precedent/decade/okc.html

        Or, Ruby Ridge?

        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ruby_Ridge
        http://topdocumentaryfilms.com/ruby-ridge/

        I am quite sure there are many more examples of our government running amok and roughshod over the people that they supposedly represent…but space is limited as well as time.

        Burying your head in the sand doesn’t enlighten you on the world around you, nor does it open you mind to the possiblity that you have been mis-informed about the agendas of our supposed represenatives.

        “If this is the case then you have a sick mind, get some psychiatric help.”

        I suggest that in the future, you may want to take your own advice …. rather than trying to offer that advice…. to someone that obviously has a better grip o reality than you seem to have.

        Take some time to turn off your “boob tube” and do a bit of research….unless the truth scares you…. Don’t be a “boob”.

        Before you do it…Whining isn’t pretty and it doesn’t help your case…don’t do it.

        Education is a wonderful thing to have…get some.

      • Average Joe

        Boatman ,
        “If you believe that I have some wonderful land I like to sell to you in the Florida Everglades.”

        Don’t send them to us…we have enough ignoramuses in Florida already…we’re looking for some place to send ours….just sayin’.
        ( I would suggest gator bait…but even the gators… either won’t touch them… or…..spit them back out)

      • http://boblivingstonpl.wordpress.com Bob Livingston
      • http://boblivingstonpl.wordpress.com Bob Livingston

        Dear Average Joe,

        Remember the Maine!

        Best wishes,
        Bob

      • Jimmy The Greek

        Look at what happend to the USS Liberty !

      • Sanders

        Boatman, now we’re getting somewhere. The message you just posted implies that our gov is inept, BULLSEYE! You couldn’t be more correct and I agree 100%, but I will never believe our gov has intenionally inflicted great harm such as these attacks or intenionally allowed them to happen on it’s own citizenry. And no, I don’t believe everything they tell us, in fact, I would be hard pressed to say I believe 1/2 of what they say. I’m not sure I believe more than 1/2 of everything I read. An old wise man once told me, “Only believe 1/4 of what you hear, 1/2 of what you read and 3/4 of what you see. The rest is up to you to figure out.”
        With all the federeal “intelligence” depts the US has, none of them worked together or shared any info until after 911. GW admin changed that to some degree, probably still nowhere near as good as it should be, when the DHS was formed as a central command for all these agencies.

      • Average Joe

        History of American False Flag Operations:
        http://911review.com/articles/anon/false_flag_perations.html

      • Mike Austin

        Right on the money Sanders. I distrust the media and the Gov’t. I suspect they may have had a hand in some dispicable, illegal operations but there is no proof. They are definitely guilty of not wasting an emergency. Why go into Iraq when OBL was in Afghanistan? Questions but no answers yet.

      • Sanders

        Bob, Thanks for all the links, lots of interesting reading. Like one of them said, all the stuff I read, see on the various news channels and hear on radio news sure have me believing a lot of things that your links say otherwise. Looks like I have a lot more reading to do before I come to any conclusions as to what I really should believe. I thought I believed some things, certainly not a lot of what most of the MSM tells me, more belief in Fox than all the Liberal news outlets.

        Where do you get all your information and how do you know it’s not been construed to fit their agendas? Just wondering where else to get information or misinformation.

        Thanks!

        • http://boblivingstonpl.wordpress.com Bob Livingston

          Dear Sanders,

          Thank you for approaching the topic with an open mind. That’s all I ask.

          You write: “Where do you get all your information and how do you know it’s not been construed to fit their agendas? Just wondering where else to get information or misinformation.” I read, read and read some more. I look beyond the mainstream media. I question everything. I look to those who have bucked the elites and fallen from grace because of it. I try to decipher what makes sense, and what doesn’t. But the key is to read, study history and compare what is happening now to what has happened before.

          Best wishes,
          Bob

      • Nancy in Nebraska

        Sanders, yup, that’s what I’m saying and I don’t need help, you do.

      • Sanders

        NiN, Sorry for the last sentence in my post. It was rude and uncalled for.

    • Deep Sea

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=972ETepp4GI&feature=related

      This is what flipped me from a neo-con stooge to a cynical, government distrusting Patriot.

    • http://gravatar.com/bychoosing Jay

      Well said Nancy; and regretfully, you, are CORRECT!!!

      • Nancy in Nebraska

        Thanks! I love it when people agree with me. :-)

  • bRUCE

    and the United States has a monopoly.
    FOR NOW.

    • Sanders

      Not so, I recently read a report on China’s war machine and it seems they too have developed (stole) this technology and are utilizing it to build drones and submarines.

      • Average Joe

        Sanders,
        I suppose you believe everything you read?

        A project for you ( an easy one)….copy and paste this: What is the Hegelian Dialectic?
        into your browser and read ….something worth reading…learn how to read between the lines of the MSM……stop being a rat….. following the Pied Piper into the river below…..

      • Jimmy The Greek

        The chinese got the technology from israle it was sold to them !

  • jopa

    I would have to defend the use of drones in that they do less collateral damage and can target a small specific area.In the past during the Bush administration the death toll of men women and children was much higher with their massive campaign of carpet bombing, bunker busters and daisy cutters.I would also have to give credit to the current administration for all their military successes in the war on terror after the failures of the last administration.Taking out Bin Laden, retrieving all the hard drives tapes, thumb drives and other info that resulted in the death of another 22 and counting terrorists.We no longer hear about Somali pirates after Obama called out to take the shot.There is Democracy spreading throughout the Mideast like nobody could have ever envisioned.Drones I would have to say are the best option and see no reason to tie the hands of America in their use.Until we have peace we must use the best option we have to keep the slaughter of human life in check.

    • Sanders

      jopa, if you think Obummer is actually responsible for the killing of BL, then I have a bridge I would like to sell you. The very guy you admire would like to imprison GW for allowing waterboarding, what they call “torture”, which is where the information came from the lead to the whereabouts of BL. Obummer merely said “yes” when he was asked by the military if they could take him out once “the military” located him.

      • Charlie Tall

        A leader is responsible for everything his subordinates do or fail to do.

        Give Obama credit where he has succeeded; damn him only where he has failed.

        Do that and he’ll surely rot in Hell (with one or two ice cubes to relieve the pain.)

      • Sanders

        Obummer gets no credit from me regarding the killing of BL. His only participation was, “Yes”. It is his suboordinates and the previous admin that gets the credit from me as that is where the credit is due despite the Liberal spin machine.

        • RON.PAUL.2012

          One of the largest families under the “House of Saud” is the Bin Laden family…Osama has 50 brothers, and several sisters… The Bin Laden family, and the *BUSH* family – yes, THAT Bush family – have 100′s of $millions$ in mutual investments through the Carlysle Group, which you know already, right?…For all your red-white-blue, Mom&apple pie Rah Rah “patriotism”, you sure are an UN-EDUCATED american, which makes you NORMAL for an American…you’re prolly fat, too…

      • jopa

        I know Obama has no interest in GW being put in Gitmo but I do for his part in war crimes. As far as Usama Bin laden if you knew the facts and took the time to realize what really was involved in the decision to take him out you would vote for him also.However you are probably one of the most misinformed that watches Fox news and actually believe what they say.I can tell by your statement you have so much to learn and I just don’t have the time for you/Have a good one.

      • Sanders

        Hey Ron.Pual2012, For the record. No, Im probably more physically fit, trim and very active at 52 then you have been most if not all of your life. Aside from my 9 hr a day job, I am constantly on the go not sitting behind this damn computer blogging and reading like your fat a$$ probably does every day.

      • http://gravatar.com/bychoosing Jay

        jopa says: I know Obama has no interest in GW being put in Gitmo…

        The reason for that, jopa, is because obama is as guilty as bush regarding war crimes. In fact, and if you did your research, you would agree that obama is by far, worse then bush, in the war crimes department. It should be quite evident, to even the most simple, that obama is more of a war-mounger then bush. I think both, should share a cell at Gitmo! Who knows, they may actually enjoy each other’s company, considering they’re both a little funny; if you know what i mean….not that there’s anything wrong with that!

    • Gordon

      “Until we have peace”? Are you a liberal utopian? There will NEVER be peace as long as the human race exists. War and collateral damage has always existed. Have you watched Stallone’s Demolition Man movie too much? You know, where everything bad for you is illegal and big brother watches your every move….. 1984 Orwell…… 2012= Life as we have known it is coming to an end.

      • Karolyn

        You are probably right. As long as people refuse to find the Truth within them, there will be conflict. However, more and more people are seeing the light.

      • http://gravatar.com/bychoosing Jay

        There is no truth within man, Karolyn; that is nothing more then “New-age-fantasy”! If man is truly serious about finding the truth, he need look no further then his Maker!

  • BigBadJohn

    Interesting argument. What about Reagan supplying know how and materials to make WMD’s, poisonous gas in particular, to Saddam is not considered terrorism?????

    • jopa

      BigBadJohn;And lets don’t forget about the Iran Contra affair.

    • Sanders

      Saddam had his very own biological and chemical agent specialists, both of which got their higher education right here in the US, to develop his WMD’s, so he didn’t need the US for this. Oh wait, how could I forget, he never had them.
      Now granted the US did help him build a very large cannon to help him fight the Iranians more effectively, the very Iranian Regime that held hundreds of our citizens hostage.

      • Gordon

        WMDs were found. Saddam tested them on thousands of his own citizens. Why are you believing the media propaganda. Many more were moved and/or buried in the desert in yet to be found bunkers. That is one of the major reasons the USA is still there: If an hostile government takes over and deploys those weapons…… Open your eyes to the truth.

      • Sanders

        Im not believing the MSM prop, my statement was purely sarcastic. They found missiles that the ballistic tip had been removed and on the shell were traces of Reisen (not sure of the spelling) gas, one of the deadliest gases known to man. My eyes and ears are wide open and in instances like this my mouth is wide open as well. Its this admin who’s eyes are wide shut with regards to Iraq.

      • RON.PAUL.2012

        *THINK*, Gordon, *THINK*!…If there were ANY “weapons” left in unknown bunkers in Iraq, do you REALLY think we would have left?…WE LEFT IRAQ, militarily…You know about the *100-acre* *EMBASSY*COMPLEX* we built in Baghdad, right? You KNOW about THAT?…google it, check it out!

      • Boatman

        Sanders, go a little bit more back in history, our government overthrew the Iranian democratic elected government before any of this hostage situation started, and installed the Shah that terrorized their people for many years. You could look this up easily. And what about the unconditional support to Israel that displaced the Palestinians from the land they occupied for thousands of years? Dont you think that double standard would get some consequences? And yes our government is inept but why isnt nobody ever brought to justice?

      • Boatman

        Sorry I ment, why isn’t anybody brought to justice. Pardon my error.

      • Boatman

        We are all born ignorant, but One must work hard to remain stupid. Benjamin Franklin 1706-1790

  • MAP

    Dr. Srdja Trifkovic gives some vision as to what our ‘leaders’ in Washington are foisting on the world without our knowledge. Future historians will describe this empire’s foreign policies as
    ‘insane’.
    http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/2008/12/31/le-dernier-mot-washingtonian-madness/

  • Jimmy The Greek

    Hay Bob i think some of the people on here are calling you a liberal LOL !

    • http://boblivingstonpl.wordpress.com Bob Livingston

      Dear Jimmy The Greek,

      It demonstrates how well the neocons and their corporate media mouthpieces have done their jobs.

      Best wishes,
      Bob

      • RON.PAUL.2012

        Come on, Bob! You know better than that! The “neocons and their corporate media mouthpieces” don’t deserve all THAT much credit!… If they really did “done their jobs” so well, how come there are SO MANY of us?… I think they are realizing how much they screwed up… Sure, “they” can “control” “us”, but that’s not America. They can “control” “america”, but that’s not “us”… If they win, they lose, and if they lose, WE win…They have no *ENDGAME*, except dystopian delusions…

        • http://boblivingstonpl.wordpress.com Bob Livingston

          Dear RON.PAUL.2012,

          You write: “Come on, Bob! You know better than that! The “neocons and their corporate media mouthpieces” don’t deserve all THAT much credit!… If they really did “done their jobs” so well, how come there are SO MANY of us?” There are “SO MANY of us” because of the Internet reformation, which is having as profound an impact on the human condition as the Gutenberg Press.

          Best wishes,
          Bob

      • Jimmy The Greek

        I loved this story and i am on the same page as you on this one . Neocons lol i just cant think of a better word for them without geting booted LOL

  • Mike Austin

    ……In Libya, NATO forces killed thousands of innocents directly by dropping bombs in cities and indirectly by funding, arming and providing logistical support to the al-Qaida-backed “opposition” group that ousted Moammar Gadhafi. The same logistical support and arming is now being provided to the Syrian al-Qaida terror group……………..

    Really Bob? You are drinking too much of your own type koolaid. Frankly, it offends me that you make these kinds of remarks. I don’t care for Barry or his ilk, but our military is at war with islamists. No matter what country they are in.

    You comment…. U.S. citizens aren’t safe from Obama’s wrath either — just ask Anwar al-Awlaki. Unfortunately, he’s no longer able to answer………………………Are you stoned? This POS gave up non-combatent status and paid the only price that was acceptable.

    This is America and we will defend your right to say ignorant things. But we don’t care for them.

    • http://boblivingstonpl.wordpress.com Bob Livingston

      Dear Mike Austin,

      You write: “Really Bob? You are drinking too much of your own type koolaid. Frankly, it offends me that you make these kinds of remarks. I don’t care for Barry or his ilk, but our military is at war with islamists. No matter what country they are in.” You have been deceived. I have provided links in the article above and to commenters. Read them.

      You write: “This POS gave up non-combatent (sic) status and paid the only price that was acceptable.” How did he give up “non-combatent” status? What does that mean? Where do you find provisions for that in the U.S. Constitution?

      You write: “This is America and we will defend your right to say ignorant things. But we don’t care for them.” Ignorant: destitute of knowledge or education; also : lacking knowledge or comprehension of the thing specified (Merriam-Webster). I have provided documentation to back up my contention. You are the one demonstrating ignorance. You are trapped in the false paradigm of conventional wisdom. Truth is sometimes difficult to bear. You are here, so there is still hope for you. But you must hold a willingness to be educated.

      Best wishes,
      Bob

      • Boatman

        We have a very famous saying, the truth is bitter pill to swallow? Specially when we have been deceived for so many years.

      • Average Joe

        Boatman,
        But, as Bob does regularly…he proves that just a spoonful of sugar makes the medicine go down…much easier.

        Thanks Bob, you make me strive to be a bit more civil in my postings.

    • http://gravatar.com/bychoosing Jay

      Mike Austin says: This is America and we will defend your right to say ignorant things. But we don’t care for them.

      We will defend your right to say ignorant things as well, Mike!

  • http://gravatar.com/bychoosing Jay

    Since being in office, Obama escalated the war in Afghanistan, has sent the Navy in to shoot at pirates in the Indian Ocean, has military destroyed and subdued Egypt and Libya, and will soon launch a full-scale attack on Iran. It’s like he took the Nobel Peace Prize as an insult.

  • Paul Dowling

    I hope we keep our monopoly.

    • Boatman

      Yes, I hope so too, so lets bomb and level the whole middle east and get rid off all Muslims that are all bad to the world, but why stop there lets also bomb south America and get rid off al those socialist elected officials like Chavez, Correa, Evo, etc but why stop there lets get rid off Central America including Mexico and at the same time well get rid off all potential illegal immigrants and then let’s bomb Europe who needs them anyways. But what do you suggest we do to when we are the only ones left?

      • http://boblivingstonpl.wordpress.com Bob Livingston

        Dear Boatman,

        You forgot the Ruskies and the Red Chinese.

        Best wishes,
        Bob

  • Karolyn

    I don’t know what’s going on, but I posted a link to a site that portrays Ron Paul as a phony, and it never appeared. It’s been 2 hours. There was another I posted on another conversation that disappeared. What’s going on?

    • http://boblivingstonpl.wordpress.com Bob Livingston

      Dear Karolyn,

      I found your two comments in the spam filter. I don’t know why. They have been posted.

      Best wishes,
      Bob

      • Karolyn

        Thanks, Bob.

  • Drifter

    When we strike back at known terrorist targets, I don’t call it terrorism. Counter terrorism perhaps or just the common sense of self-preservation…

  • http://www.facebook.com/TheRealFatherOMalley Gary Vincent O’Malley

    Wow. I don’t know where to start. I gave an example, then someone changes the example to suit their paradigm and says, “Ya see, you’re wrong”. I’m sorry show me where I’m wrong with the exact example I gave.

    Bob, sir quoting the same site that makes the original arguments isn’t a reference. You’re quoting an echo chamber. Conventional wisdom is usually correct 98% of the time. I don’t think 9/11 or our response to it changes that conventional wisdom being true.

    I’ve investigated thoroughly the conspiracy claims and they have been disproven to me. If not to you that is your choice. It would have taken a massive amount of cooperation of many people to bring this conspiracy to fruition and I find it quite unlikely that this could be done without someone involved spilling the beans, but other than that I’ve interveiwed some engineers at UNCW (University of North Carolina Wilmington) and they’ve looked into the possibility of the jet fuel reaching these temperature and they say the way “conventional wisdom” describe it, it is perfectly within the realm of plausibility, not possibility to plausibility.

    They said unless something else comes to light, they will believe the conventional wisdom (commonsense). That in 2003 was enough for me to close the book on it. I saw the planes, I heard the phone calls from the airplanes.

    To me it is not a hoax on the American people. A much bigger hoax is the income tax being what our forefathers would have supported. Hamilton, Franklin, Jefferson, Madison and Adams were against it. John Locke and Montisqueiu were too. http://www.fairtax.org. :-)
    The people that responded to my earlier post completely ignored the fact that terrorist hide behind civilians. This shows me that ideology, not logic and rational deduction is at work. Otherwise Bob,

    I find your other writings superb and I do follow your emails I get. Thank you for all you do, but I won’t take the Ron Paul stand that we deserve attacks or we export terrorism. We’ve got to define terrorism first.

    • Scot

      If you’re STOOPID ENUF to believe that TWC collapsed solely as the result of aircraft impact, and the resulting jet-fuel fires, you really ARE an idiot… Maybe what “they” don’t want you to know, is that *TERRORISTS* planted the demolition charges that took down the twin towers, *AND* *Building 7*… Can YOU explain how Building 7 collapsed 1/2 an hour AFTER it was reported LIVE by a BBC reporter, and WHY there is NO mention of Building 7 in the “official report”…
      (*hint: Drones, unlike regular piloted aircraft, allow a larger chain-of-command to be directly involved in targeting decisions… That seems MORE humane than leaving the decision up to a single pilot…

      • Charlie Tall

        Scot, you are obviously not technically qualified to make any judgments about the collapse of the World Trade Towers. If the buildings were brought down by demolition charges, what happened to the explosions? Do you think someone from the government hid the explosions behind a conspiracy?

        Explosions are big, loud, flashy things, and they were clearly absent from the live television broadcasts of the final collapse of the towers. Building 7 was severely damaged by the collapse of the towers plus it suffered several uncontrolled fires prior to its collapse.

        Additionally, you obviously have no military experience. Take my word for it, neither Hollywood nor TV is a reliable source of information on warfare. Your comment about a larger chain-of-command (sic) is woefully uninformed and indicative of your lack of knowledge.

      • http://www.facebook.com/TheRealFatherOMalley Gary Vincent O’Malley

        Charlie Tall. Amen.. but you see some might be adjusting their tin foil hats when engineers were explaining on Television when the media was abuzz. The engineers I learned from were familiar with the subject when the rumors started buzzing. The demand for answers, but they have none of their own. They don’t logically follow through on their assumptions. Instead they attack like some Paul Bots I know. I wonder if any have read John Locke, or Frederic Bastiat… or Montesqueui or Blackstone. . Locke, Blackstone and Montesquieu were the masters that Jefferson, Adams, Madison, Hamilton, Franklin sat at the feet of. The Nature of Man.. It’s something to study. 5000 year leap, Ameritopia, The Law.. good stuff.

      • Boatman

        Mr, Gary Omalley, I do agree with you on your taxation assessment, besides our tax system is unconstitutional as all taxes must be apportioned by the states. Most of all I agree with you because I’m on the “producers” side of your assessment but I don’t see where this has to do with the conversation?
        My questions still stand, why did all the security protocols failed that day? Or you do believe that the “man” in the cave also controlled our chain of command? Was it because our security agencies are inept? If that’s the case i want them tried and sentence, the same way we do with people that have caused somebody’s lives.
        On your first assessment you said that you won’t take Ron Paul’s stand that we deserved attacks and we export terrorism but that is false as thats what you heard but what he, and many others in important government positions, said was, “our government actions and policies in meddling in middle east affairs have repercussions and unless you and I are policy makers he was not referring to us. Unless you also believe that what we are exporting is democracy and shoving it down every body’s throats. Let’s keep throwing those bombs of peace.

    • Boatman

      Charlie, your response to Scott leaves many questions unanswered, from one patriot to another only looking for answers. First, you mention that “explosions are big, loud and flashy things that were absent from live television broadcast of the final collapse” so you we’re obviously not present and you are relying on second hand information, but there were many public officials present, first responders, that were Interviewed on site and said that they heard explosions and were trown in the air, but were never brought to testified. Don’t you think that is some very important information? Besides many architects and structural engineers, over 1,000, Have testified that is impossible for this collapse to occurred due to fuel fire which is very easy to prove as the metal would only melt at a lot higher temperatures that the fire is able to produce. Then you have tower 7, which was not even hit, and again molten metal was found? And You might have military experience but don’t you think it would be wise to listen to experts on their respective fields?
      So, I take your word for it, I might not be technically qualified, like Scott, but why did it take so long for NORAD to do respond to an emergency call? As you probably know there is a protocol to follow in the chain of command when this happens, NORAD must be inform minutes after they loose contact with a commercial airplane. And why we’re they ordered from Langley instead of Andrews Airforce base when they are so much closer? and if only normal procedures had been followed then the day would have finished very differently.
      So I have two questions for you, terrorist might have planned and carry on the attacked, but can they also control NORAD? And why was nobody from all these government agencies were tried for failure to do their job?
      Why is it so hard to believe in theories? Theories are just the analysis of a set of facts in their relation to one another, websters, most of criminal cases are based on theories, we have the theory of evolution, theory of light, most of the diseases are cured based on theories. Your explanation on the collapse of tower 7 is also a theory as many experts would not agree with your assessment. I thing you might agree with me, or not, is that government officials lie and they have been caught lying many times before, examples above from Bob livingston, what guarantee do I have that they are not lying this time?

      • http://www.facebook.com/TheRealFatherOMalley Gary Vincent O’Malley

        Wow, no “concensus” in science? Who’d a thought. . For any hypothesis to reach the level of recognized theory, one must disprove competing theories or at least give plausible alternatives. This is real science. You mention several “theories” but there are theories and then there are working theories. There was no series of explosions in any of the buildings. Were those “suicide bombers” just figments of imagination or hired jihadists to do the Government’s business?

        This is getting out in never never land. We are divided over this? And this is fun? Naw.. See ya.. there are more important fish to cat.. like using the force of law to confiscate form one group without their consent or compensation and giving it to another that has no legal right to it. This is legal theft. It creates two groups. One group (producers) uses the law to protect itself and the other group uses the law to perpetuate the theft claimng they deserve it for they are victims of a capitalist society. Nothing like a self righteous thief. We have a society where the poor have stopped begging. They now demand like good little communist minions. If Paul robs me to pay Peter, who is Peter going to vote for? This can all stop because with a foundation based on consumption, there is no 78,000 page tax code to manipulate. When we purchase we give permission (under HB25 it is only New Retail that is taxed which introduces some real choice back into the system) and we are compensated with goods or services. The theft stops.

        We need a system of taxation that is equal and naturally progressive, not some arbitrary amount granted by government. The more you buy, the more taxes you pay. The more you make? Good on you! The more you save? Good on you! no taxes. Government becomes neutral to income and success. No more choosing winners and losers by decree by a untrustworthy congress. How could we ever allow flawed men and women decide how much “LEFT” we have to live on? Do we really want a backbreaking tax rate of 75% that France has soon? http://www.fairtax.org.. once you understand it, you’ll demand it! :-0 ooops.

      • http://www.facebook.com/TheRealFatherOMalley Gary Vincent O’Malley

        Prove that over 1000 have testified that the fire was not hot enough to affect girder strength. I’ve done my homework. If you can find it give the references here. I asked engineers that evidently weren’t one of the 1000. There are also supposedly thousands that say man has caused global warming, so? Most great thinkers of the time thought the earth was flat, and some were killed for saying the opposite. This seems to me more of a religious thing to me. I can present all kinds of facts and still the refrain would be”Well what about blah, blah. My last post was my exit from this discussion. My mentioning the tax system was prompted by the need to do something for our future that is REAL and affects us ALL every day. As far the sarcasm goes about dropping bombs for peace, it is siily on its face. MY first post explained that quite well. If you are passive when someone is attacking you, you only guarantee endless destruction. It’s silly.. It’s the same old (expletive deleted) I heard on every turn around from Vietnam. Then when we left 3 MILLION south east asians were slaughtered. I don’t discuss these things with irrational people. God Bless,
        Gary

      • Boatman

        Hey Gary, no need to get your panties in a bunch, this is just a discussion board where grown ups get to express what they think and if you can’t handle a little democracy you shouldn’t get in the discussion. But let me answer your questions,
        It is not my position to prove anything to you, you are already convinced on your expert assesment and would never listen to a humble opinion or an expert opinion if it contradicts your assessment.
        My point is not whether or not 9/11 was an inside job, my point is, how can all our expert agencies failed so badly? and why wasnt anybody ever question? Was somebody in upper management at least fired from this incompetence? And like I said before, I totally agree with you on your tax assessment.
        And I won’t take nor accept the blame about the 3 million Asians slaughtered after we left Vietnam as there is no provision in the constitution about the US being the policemen of the world, besides we don’t have the money.

      • Charlie Tall

        Boatman,
        I’ve been down this road before with many conspiracy theory advocates. I’ve also been there when buildings were brought down by explosives. But for your benefit, let’s review some of the key facts.
        The collapse of both towers began several hundred feet above the ground on the floors where the airplanes hit the towers. The whole world saw that on television.
        When the collapse started, there were no explosions on those floors. Whether I was there or not, it was obvious to anyone watching, and I was watching in real time, that the buildings simply collapsed; there were no explosions.
        So of the people on-site claimed to have heard explosions in the basements. Okay. SO what? If something exploded in the basement, how did that cause a collapse of the structure five hundred feet or more above? Indeed, it did not.
        Those buildings were, as any other tall buildings are, full of things that might explode if subjected to sufficient heat. However, the explosions will be relatively minor, certainly not on the order of demolition charges.
        Buildings like the WTC towers are built to resist 150 percent of the expected maximum load. Structural steel loses strength as temperature increases. The steel does not have to melt. It merely has to reach a temperature high enough to reduce the load-bearing capacity to less than 100%.
        Besides heat, there was in this case severe mechanical damage to the structure. Simply put, the airplanes knocked-out some of the load-bearing structure. So it was not necessary for the strength of the structure to be reduced solely by the fire; the airplanes had already accomplished part of that job. Some of the structure was missing within a fraction of a second after impact, literally blown away by the crashes. The remaining steel columns and beams failed due to fire, and down came the towers.
        There are photographs of the beams deforming and sagging directly before the Towers collapsed.
        There are also photographs of the damage done to bldg 7 by the collapse of the towers. Find them and you will see that building 7 was severely damaged long before it collapsed. During the period between the collapse of the towers and the collapse of bldg 7, it was subjected to several uncontrolled fires. Videos of the collapse of #7 indicate that it failed in exactly the way it would be expected given the observed damage.
        There was, by the way, no free fall collapse. The video of bldg 7 collapsing actually shows debris falling faster than the building. The same thing can be seen on at least one video of the collapse of the first tower.
        About NORAD: If it happened today, the airplanes would probably be intercepted and destroyed. However, it happened in 2001, and NORAD was not in the habit of ordering the destruction of civilian airliners at that time. Also, there were at least four airliners involved; no one knew what was happening until the first one struck the WTC. There was a lot of confusion, and even today it would take an awfully brave commander to order fighters to attack airliners.
        You can, of course, believe what you wish. I have chosen to look at the facts and believe otherwise.
        I am a graduate engineer with forty years professional experience which includes five years in the Army serving as an ordnance officer. I was trained in nuclear and conventional weapons, and have employed most of the various explosives and demolition techniques used by the US military and civilian demolition organizations. I have hands-on experience with high explosives, hyperbaric explosives, medium and low explosives, binary explosives, incendiaries, and most all other pyrotechnics used in this country as well as foreign ordnance of many types. They were all absent on 9/11/2001.

        • Scot

          You forgot to mention “nanothermite” in your list of explosives that you have experience with. Or do you have no experience with a form of explosive most likely present in all 3 9/11 building take-downs?… Thank-you for your service, sir, but your “logic” is fallacious…

      • Charlie Tall

        Scot,

        Nanothermite falls into several categories: High explosive, medium explosive, low explosive, and incendiaries, which are not explosives. All of which were mentioned above.

        The method of employment determines the category that nanothermite falls into.

        If you wish to use nanothermite as a high explosive, it must be dispersed in an oxidizing medium such as air, and then ignited. This is what’s commonly known as a hyperbaric explosive, which I’ve worked with in ways you could not imagine.

        I’ve also had a lot of hands-on experience with plain, old thermite. Used it to burn classified trash among other things. It’s over-rated, let me tell you, but pretty spectacular to the uninformed.

        It’s also subject to the effects of gravity. Got any idea what that implies?

        In any event, there were no explosions of the size and violence necessary to contribute anything significant to the events of 9/11/2001.

        If you think my logic is fallacious, that’s only because your judgment is based on ignorance, but thanks for the effort.

        • Scot

          Exactly what amount of “size and violence” DO YOU THINK would be necessary to “contribute anything significant to the events of 9/11″?… In ALL the collapse footage I have seen, there appear to be smaller explosions coming out of the walls on the way down… “I think your logic is fallacious, because YOUR judgement is based on ignorance”, is EXACTLY as good “evidence” as what YOU got!…lol…
          (Your type of BS is known as “appeal to the experts”, or, in other words, “I went to COLLEGE, so *I* am a GENUIS!”…Nice try, though, Charlie…

      • Charlie Tall

        Scot,

        Scot, my lad, you are ignorant. You know absolutely nothing about explosives except for what you see on television and in the movies, and that is fiction. What you hear from the so-called conspiracy experts is fiction, too. Fortunately, ignorance is curable; stupidity isn’t.

        So don’t be stupid. Instead of putting up one strawman after the other, simply offer evidence that proves I am wrong. So far, I’ve given the hard data while you’ve offered nothing but the single word “nanothermite” and insults.

        Now for what you say you saw. The “smaller explosions” you described that “appeared to be” coming out of the towers lacked characteristics of real explosions.

        First, there were no flashes. Unless they are totally shielded, explosions give off a noticeable flash. It is inconceivable that the quantities of high-explosive needed to bring down one of those towers could even be partially shielded, particularly if they were, as you hypothesize, on every (or even several) upper floors.

        Second, there were no blast waves. Even when shielded, explosions will exhibit a blast wave. See below.

        Third, the unmistakable “crack” of a high-order detonation was missing.

        The explosions you see in the movies (e.g., Demolition Man, NCIS Los Angeles, etc) are really low-order hyperbaric detonations. So low in fact that they exhibit little or no shock wave.

        If you would like to make your own simulated explosion, try this: place a small container (like a single serving of tartar sauce or butter comes in) of gasoline on top of a firecracker. Use a little aluminum foil as a stand for the gasoline container, but arrange it so that the firecracker is in contact with the bottom of the container and so when it pops the gas is blown into the air.

        Best to try this outdoors and away from anything inflammable, like in the middle of a field.

        Nearby, within a foot or so, place a lit butane torch. Light the firecracker and get away fast. When the firecracker explodes, it will disperse the gasoline; when the proper stochiometric ratio is achieved, the torch will light off the vapor cloud; it will burn very quickly, but not very violently. You will see a slight flash, but probably no noticeable shock wave. Depending on how far you managed to get before the poof, you might feel a slight slap from the expanding gases.

        You could accomplish the same thing by throwing a cup of gasoline into the air over a fire, but you probably wouldn’t survive that demonstration uncharred ;>)

        Let me know how you do.

        I used to do this with a 55-gallon drum of fuel, an M2A3 shaped charge, and a couple of igniters. It made a very impressive simulation of a nuclear burst, mushroom shaped cloud and all…but no shock wave and much smaller than the real thing.

        After you’ve tried this, recall that what you accomplished was really very fast combustion, not an explosion, at all. Explosions propagate at supersonic velocities, which I don’t think you’ll get with gasoline-air mixtures unless you do things to them.

        Some of the fastest explosives (RDX, PETN, and binaries) propagate at speeds approaching 10 to 20 times the speed of sound in air. Believe me, that is impossible to miss, even on television.

        What you saw in the videos of the collapse of the towers were debris clouds – dirt, dust, smoke, and other particulate matter – forced out of the space between the floors as they fell and compressed the air. Kind of like the puff of air you feel when you clap your hands, but on a much larger scale.

        If you observe the videos carefully, you will note that the floors start to move, to fall, before the dust cloud is ejected. Obviously, if explosives had been used, the debris cloud, flash and shock wave would have emerged before the floors began to fall, and they would have been moving much faster than what you saw on the videos.

        Now, if you still think my knowledge is faulty, get busy and contradict me, and be specific. No more one-word nonsense. That’s really all you have to do, but you can’t.

        And by the way, I’m not an expert, but I know a hell of a lot more about the subject than you do, and I know a lot of experts who agree with me.

        • Scot

          DUDE!… I’m no explosives expert. My area of expertise is humint. You flatter me. As my Dad used to say: “None proclaim there innocence as loudly as the guilty…” And I can hera you all the way out here, Charlie. You gave a well-written synopsis of THEIR propaganda… Where was the wreckage from “Shanksville” taken for forensic reconstruction, and how many persons’ remains were identified from the crash site.
          Bonus points, Mr Expert, for detailing *WHY* there is NO mention of Building 7 in the official report… It’s *YOU* who’s the Piker, Charlie…..
          *the nanothermite was triggered electrically, and there was *LIQUID* explosives in
          (parts of) the plumbing system…
          PS: Tell me what you know about the Bin Laden family…
          1,2,3,…..set ‘em up, knock ‘em down….

  • Charlie Tall

    Scot,

    Do you have a learning disorder? Your posts indicate that you are seriously confused as to what you and I have been discussing here. Let me give you a hint:”a form of explosive most likely present in all 3 9/11 building take-downs…”

    If you bother to read above, you will discover that I was responding to Boatman until you interrupted with your comment about nanothermite. I responded to you by noting that “The method of employment determines the category that nanothermite falls into.”

    In other words, it was your ignorance, not my “fallacious logic” that lead to your first misunderstanding. After that you kind of went off into Nevernever Land.

    I noted that, “Scot, my lad, you are ignorant.” You now respond with “You flatter me,” and tell me what your Dad used to say, and have started calling me, “Dude.”

    Have you misplaced your lithium?

    Scot, try learning for a change. Open your mind and eyes. Quit parroting the nonsense of the conspiracy theorists and simply consider the evidence that’s available. Think for yourself, little boy, and forget your daddy’s worn-out old platitudes. They’re only a little less appropriate to the subject than are most of your remarks.

    Humint? I doubt it.

    Let me know when you try the fuel-air trick.

    • Boatman

      Charlie, thank you very much for your civility and explanation and you surely sound like an authority on this area. You have a lot of information that is worth looking into it.
      Problem is that there is also a lot of information pointing the other way and the government trying to cover many facts.
      What is your theory about building 7? Sorry but I won’t accept the theory of a fire took it down, demolition style.
      How can all security agencies failed so much that day? The biggest intelligence machine in the history of the world? And 30 minutes later know about the perpetrators. First and last names with a passport that escaped unscathed?
      And now the American people are paying their government’s failure to protect us with our own civil liberties? Like if it was our fault.

      • Charlie Tall

        It wasn’t just the fires that brought down WTC 7. The building was hit by the North Tower when it fell. Witnesses talk of a “20-story” hole in WTC 7. Please look at the video at the very bottom of the page on WTC 7 found in this website: http://www.debunking911.com/index.html

        One of my mottoes is: Never underestimate the power of human stupidity. Both the federal intelligence agencies and our boy Scot prove the wisdom of this imperative. Recall the fact that the same intelligence machine that missed the 9/11 conspiracy also missed the collapse of the Soviet Union. Note, too, that Scot claims to be an expert on human intelligence. Birds of a feather, perchance?

        I would also add the rule that no matter what happens, the government, both politicians and bureaucrats, will blame all problems on someone else. See the article titled “Obama Blames Bush for Skid Marks in Michelle’s Panties.” [joke]

  • Scot

    Here’s the crux of the argument, which not even the NSA / NRO / DIA really do a good job with:
    The WTC DID NOT, and COULD NOT POSSIBLY have collapsed the way that it did, in the time that it did, solely as the result of aircraft impact, and resulting jet fuel fires. The Twin towers were specifically designed to withstand a direct impact by a 747. That’s at least a 2-engine bigger plane than the 767′s which were used in the *FALSE FLAG* exercise known as 9/11. I knew THAT, ON 9/11…. Try using an argument which I HAVEN’T heard a 1000 times already, will ya, DUDE?…

  • Scot

    Here’s your last chance, Charlie… Describe in basic outline, the design / construction criteria of the WTC, and how that could, or could not, affect the manner of the WTC collapse… You’re not bad, Charlie, you’re about FBI level in “MISO”… I bet you helped plan the “Fast & Furious” scheme for ATFE… That’s about your intellectual level. Cruising along at 110 – 115 IQ. Hey, it’s a little above average!…lol…. ~scot~.

    • http://www.facebook.com/TheRealFatherOMalley Gary Vincent O’Malley

      I don’t wear panties and as far as adult conversation goes, it seems the aluminum foil hatted conspiracy theorists or those that claim that there was in impossible screw up and why haven’t people been fired, have not read very much about 9/11 that disagrees with their paradigm. The screwup was because there were legal walls set up under Clinton’s administration that prevented different departments from connecting the dots.

      This has nothing to do with exporting terrorism. Terrorism by definition excludes the US in the Middle East simply because we don’t target non combatants. The “civilians” that have been killed were being either used as willing or unwilling shields by terrorist.

      Too many veterans have come back bearing witness to the same so no amount of “experts” here will disuade a logical person. I said I’ve read and asked experts, yet the assertion is that I don’t read from anyone other than those that agree with my opinion. That is rather hard to do since I didn’t have one going in 2002 when I began.

      Most here quote other conspiracies as the perpertuate this one, which shows me that they might be inclined towards conspiracy before they begin an investigation.

      • scot

        Gary, I was replying to “Charlie Tall”, I don’t know how you got here, but….
        The ultimate 9/11 HOAX rebuttal is this: In the 10+ years since 9/11, how many 1000′s of *FOREIGN* planes have landed here in U.S.? Same question, for the rest of the world….
        So, over 10 years ago, *20* “terrorist hijackers” were able to do 9/11… Airplanes as bombs – great idea…. Why have the “terrorists” NOT done the same ELSEWHERE, where security is much more lax than here in U.S.???…Why has NO OTHER country had it’s own 9/11?…maybe because 9/11 is a bigger *HOAX* than you think…
        9/11 was a GLOBAL “conspiracy”, with most of the world’s gov’ts involved…
        Just like all this economy crap in the news, it’s ALL FABRICATED, and manipulated!…
        Hey, wait and see…
        I ain’t afraid of no “terrorist”… The ULTIMATE SECRET WEAPON against ANY & ALL “terrorists”, is to stop being afraid of them…
        So simple, you prolly don’t believe me…
        Oh well, so it goes…

        • http://www.facebook.com/TheRealFatherOMalley Gary Vincent O’Malley

          It must be lonely at the top eh Scot?

          • Scot

            “Lonely at the top”? No, I have lots of friends. I live with lots of (expletive deleted) just like you and me, Gary….

  • Charlie Tall

    Scot,

    Don’t you see the weakness of your silly argument? It’s quite apparent if you take the time to think.

    Since you have not figured it out on your own, I’ll explain it to you in words of one syllable or less:

    If the WTC collapses were not due to demolition by/with explosives then you theory falls to pieces. Anything after that simply doesn’t matter.

    Bin Laden’s family? Irrelevant. The other airliners? Irrelevant. If the WTC was not brought down by explosives, and it wasn’t, then nothing else matters.

    Without the high explosives, your theory becomes incoherent: a mass of unrelated and irrelevant.

    Since there were no explosions, the towers were not brought down by demolition.

    You conspiracy theory is nonsense. QED

    Now, for your edification (if that’s possible) here’s everything you need to know about the collapse of the World Trade Towers and Building 7:

    http://www.debunking911.com/index.html

    • Scot

      Like I said, Charlie Tuna, it is NOT physically possible for the WTC – all 3! – to have collapsed AS they did, WITHOUT some type of controlled demolition, and thus, the gov’ts OFFIciaL story is a whitewash coverup… I give you credit. You’re as good a propagandist as the “gov’t” has… You’re still fooling *some* people with the gov’t BS line…
      Note, kiddo dude, I am NOT saying there were NOT terrorists, only that, again, the WTC did not, and COULD NOT, have collapsed as it did, solely as the result oif aircraft impact and fires… Where’s yur FAX(facts), JACK…???…….

      • Charlie Tall

        Come on, Scot. Check out the website I cited. It’s full of facts.

        http://www.debunking911.com/index.html

        You keep asserting that this or that is not possible, but you have neither the education, the intelligence, not the experience to make that decision.

        Go to the website and learn.

        http://www.debunking911.com/index.html

        Go! Go and bother us no more!

        • Scot

          “debunking911″?…lol…. c’mon, Charlie, I’m NOT THAT stupid…
          I raised NUMEROUS good “discussion points” here, but you refused them all…
          Truly, you are either totally brainwashed, or else you’re a “brainwasher”…I find the unanswered – and un-answerable Q?’s of the 911 Truthers, to be far more persuasive, than *GOV’T*PROPAGANDA*… Can’t you see that? I think what bothers you MOST, is this: You seem to really care WHO did 911… Me? Honestly? I neither KNOW, nor CARE,
          exactly who did what on 9/11… Whether it was towelheads in plane-bombs, or CIA nanothermite, it’s all the same to me. I don’t care, because it doesn’t matter. I am AMERICAN, the Earth is my home, and ALL*PEOPLE are my brothers and sisters…
          Charlie, it’s dudes like YOU that keep the war machine purring…
          *I don’t give a (expletive deleted) about “debunking9/11″…don’t you get that?…

  • Charlie Tall

    Scot,
    I don’t wish to discuss your fantasies.

    • Scot

      A nod is as good as a wink to the blind horse known as Charlie Tall…
      Here’s your ball, Charlie, run along home, now – your Mommy’s calling…
      (*where* did you say they took the Shanksville “”wreckage”” for forensic reconstruction?…
      How many sets of remains were ID’d with DNA…???…..etc…
      Bonus: Total weight of “debris” collected in PA on 9/11______________
      You “Fail”, Charlie…….
      ____________________________NEXT!___________________

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