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America Run By Outlaws

February 18, 2013 by  

America Run By Outlaws
SCREENSHOT
The cabin where Christopher Dorner took cover burned down after San Bernardino County SWAT officers deployed seven "burners" into it.

The rule of law is essential to a civilized society. But depending on the rule of law in today’s world is a fatal attraction and predicts a fatal ending.

A fair and impartial trial or even a trial at all is not the real world, as many have found out too late.

President Barack Obama has admitted to and crowed about having CIA agents target and kill three American citizens, two adults and the teenage son of one of the men, with a killer drone. The trio was slain in separate attacks in the fall of 2011. The elder al-Awlaki, Anwar, and Samir Khan died in Yemen from a missile strike by one of Obama’s Predator drones on Sept. 30, 2011. The younger al-Awlaki, 16-year-old Abdulrahman, was killed a couple of weeks later while eating at an outdoor restaurant. (A fourth American-born citizen, Kamal Derwish, was killed by a Predator drone in Yemen while riding in a car with an al-Qaida leader in 2002.)

Here we have two men and one boy executed without trial. This extrajudicial killing has been lauded by those on both the right and left as just. They say this with no evidence presented in court of crimes having been committed by the three. The only “evidence” is the word of the government and its propaganda machine the mainstream media.

As Judge Andrew Napolitano points out,  the President may kill only after due process, in self-defense or under a declaration of war. None of the three had ever been convicted of a crime in the United States. None had taken up arms against the United States. None was near a battlefield.

According to documents obtained from the U.S. State Department following a Freedom of Information Act request by the watchdog agency Judicial Watch, by Sept. 27, 2001, the FBI had evidence that Anwar al-Awlaki purchased airplane tickets used by three of the 9/11 hijackers: Mohammed Atta, S. Suqami and W. al-Sheri. After Judicial Watch released these findings, the FBI denied to the media that al-Awlaki was connected to the hijackers. The documents also show that al-Awlaki was uncooperative with the FBI agents investigating the attacks.

On Feb. 5, 2002, four months after the FBI discovered his connection to 9/11, al-Awlaki was invited to the Pentagon for a dinner as part of the military’s outreach to the Muslim community. In other words, less than six months after 9/11, the FBI had a 9/11 conspirator in its grasp and let him walk away. But that would not be last time.

The documents obtained by Judicial Watch show that al-Awlaki was detained and questioned at JFK airport on Oct. 10, 2002, under a warrant for passport fraud, a felony punishable by up to 10 years in prison. When informed of al-Awlaki’s arrest, the FBI ordered his release. He then flew to Washington, D.C., and eventually to Yemen.

In May 2010, mainstream media outlets began reporting that al-Awlaki had been targeted for a drone strike by the Obama Administration. But almost one year later, on March 24, 2011, the U.S. government’s keystone cops division attempted to trick al-Awlaki into going to the U.S. Embassy in Yemen to pick up an important letter. The letter al-Awlaki was to pick up was a passport revocation. No one from the U.S. State Department elaborated on whether it was reasonable to believe that al-Awlaki, who had to know by then there was a price on his head, would go anywhere near the U.S. Embassy.

Six months later, a missile fell out of the sky on al-Awlaki’s head. No apparent further effort was made by the keystone cops to arrest or detain him after the failed “important letter ploy” even though CIA agents kept him under continuous surveillance prior to his assassination, including continuous observation for the 48 hours leading up to his killing. As for Abdulrahman, he apparently was targeted, to paraphrase Presidential spokesmonkey Jay Carney, because he chose the wrong father.

As Napolitano points out, not only is the murder of al-Awlaki for encouraging others to make war on America a violation of natural law, it’s a violation of his 1st Amendment rights, his 4th Amendment rights and several Federal statutes. “No law or legal principal justifies the U.S. government killing him then and there; in fact, numerous laws prohibit it,” he writes. The use of the CIA for offensive killing also violates Federal law, as intelligence agents may lawfully kill only in self-defense.

Some have said that al-Awlaki was guilty of treason for encouraging attacks on America. But the process for proving and punishing treason is defined in Article III, Section 3 of the Constitution.

In an effort to join in the killing spree and perhaps give Obama some political cover, Congress has proposed creating a secret court that can authorize the President and his designees to kill Americans. Obviously, chickenhawk Lindsey Graham wants in on it. He recently proposed a resolution commending Obama’s drone policy and murder of al-Awlaki.

“Every member of Congress needs to get on board,” Graham said. “It’s not fair to the president to let him, leave him out there alone quite frankly. He’s getting hit from libertarians and the left.

“I think the middle of America understands why you would want a drone program to go after a person like Anwar al-Awlaki,” Graham added.

In other words, Graham believes that a secret and unaccountable group of people meeting behind closed doors should have the power to determine whether Americans should live or die. And a person can be targeted simply for writing or speaking words that make the 1 percent uncomfortable.

Such a mindset was apparently what fueled the wild shootouts in Los Angeles last week as officers sought rogue former police officer Chris Dorner.

It’s obvious by their responses that the Los Angeles Police Department had a standing shoot-to-kill order on Dorner. And when he was finally cornered in a cabin near Big Bear Lake, Calif., law enforcement officers intentionally burned the building down around him, apparently without giving him an opportunity to surrender.

Like Obama, the LAPD became judge, jury and executioner. When individuals or groups of individuals hold the power of life over death, the rule of law no longer applies. Lack of the rule of law indicates a loss of civilization and a descent into anarchy. America is a lawless society from the head down.

Bob Livingston

is an ultra-conservative American and author of The Bob Livingston Letter™, founded in 1969. Bob has devoted much of his life to research and the quest for truth on a variety of subjects. Bob specializes in health issues such as nutritional supplements and alternatives to drugs, as well as issues of privacy (both personal and financial), asset protection and the preservation of freedom.

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  • Jeremy Leochner

    The drone program is an insult to our country. We are better than this. For once I am in almost universal agreement with Mr. Livingston.

    In regards to Dorner I would have much preferred him being arrested and convicted in a court of law. I do not doubt his status as a cop killer influenced how the officers on the scene acted. Though I don’t believe the order from the upper ranks was shoot to kill. I believe Dorner had some legitimate points to make about corruption and racism in the LAPD. Sadly he choose the completely wrong way to respond. If in fact the LAPD did not give Dorner a chance to surrender than I applaud Mr. Livingston for taking them to task.

    If there is any area where I diverge from Mr. Livingston its in his final statement that “America is a lawless society from the head down.” I do not believe we have quite reached that point. But in the spirit of debate I will concede language.

    • lance

      We the people can’t break the law a little. We go to jail, correct? So why would we submit to the authorities following the law to judge us a “little bit” There is a reason for RULL OF LAW It has to apply to everyone or no one. We can not allow a president, congressman, senator, judge. sheriff or policeman to be judge and jury.
      And for the argument that” look at all the money saved by the accused being burned alive” then why not argue the point that we need no judge or jury and for that matter no attorneys to argue anyones case. Imagine the money saved! Just let the policeman or sheriff make that determination on the spot. Oh wait there was a system like that. they called them SS

      • Gea

        Obama is just doing what all Muslim tyrants do, getting rid of his opponents, any which way he can to gain support of US. Read the history of Mohamed and Amin al Husseini, the Mufti of jerusalem, the highest ranking Nazi war crminal who spent WWII egging Hitler on toe hurry up extermination of Jews in Europe and come to Middle East to murder Jews in Arab countries (over a millikons had to flee from the Arab countries, and they now make up 50% of the Jewish population of Israel).

        Obama just pretends to “have israel’s back” but he is a true friend on his Muslim Brotherhood, which is cracking down on trully democratic individuals in Egypt and terrorising women who during Mubarak had some righgts. Obama is the most skillful demagogue that US ever had and a superb practitioner of Taqiyya- Islamic principle of lying (http://www.islam-watch.org/Warner/Taqiyya-Islamic-Principle-Lying-for-Allah.htm)

        “The higher one is placed in the social order (or rather, on how important the individual perceives himself to be), the more imperative it becomes to strenuously avoid “loss of face”. “When taqiyya is used to avoid making an admission or concession it is simply an essential means of ensuring that ones honour and standing remain intact and untarnished. Blood feuds and vendettas, caused by an ancient humiliation of a long dead ancestor, can persist, fuelled and propelled by shame and honour, for generations. Muhammad, who is promoted as every Muslim’s exemplar, set the precedent for vengeful retaliation when he ordered the murder of those who mocked or satirised him and, as he was an Arab, caused him potential loss of face”. Obama cannot afford loss of face with those terrorists and thus has them executed ;-)!. He really is a one cool cat Muslim Brother;-)!

      • http://www.facebook.com/darwan.winkler.3 Deerinwater

        I don’t like where this is going ~ If you kill people or plot to kill people you are a threat. ~

        Society should not be required to condone threatening behavior from a known threat. This is pushing personal liberty and freedom to the breaking point.

        Neutralizing a known threat has my approval. I wish we could be more preemptive rather then wait until a crime is committed. ~ Maybe people might learn to behave in a more appropriate manner.

        In Nam, I seen heads on poles lining the roads going into town as a warning bad behavior would not be tolerated. A little extreme but effective.

        There is limits to personal liberties and freedom, if there wasn’t we could not afford them.

      • Vicki

        Deerinwater writes:
        “Society should not be required to condone threatening behavior from a known threat. This is pushing personal liberty and freedom to the breaking point. ”

        Missing definition of “threatening behavior”
        Missing definition of “known threat”

        Is this threatening behavior?
        http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,2099919,00.html

        or this?
        http://www.time.com/time/photogallery/0,29307,1922169_1933274,00.html

      • http://www.facebook.com/darwan.winkler.3 Deerinwater

        http://definitions.uslegal.com/t/threatening-behavior/

        and I think you know what a threat is ~

        You people are not going to escape the reach of Government,~ trust me on this ~ I’ve tried long before it was seen popular and we had a mixed race president.

        Between “willful noncompliance to “failure to appear” to “contempt of court” , they have got you. The system in place can box you in to where , anything you do or fail too do, you will be violating a law and just one more charge against you . Then the DA office will start tallying the “counts” per charge and things really heat up, you will start seeing dollars with wings on them flying out of your pockets.

        I’m not saying, don’t fight and just lay down ~ I’m saying to you, that it better be a battle worth the fight.

        Someday Obama will no long be your president, ~ some white women or man will ~ and you can go back to the way you were, accepting government and your limited freedoms with a happy heart.

        This desire to curb this president and his administration ~ can have long term consequences if you could manage it ~ while I don’t believe that you can.

        You people have rendered the GOP all but useless, ~ This Right Wing Christian Collation gone Wild !

        I’m not defending a Terrorist ~ I don’t give a damn where he was born, ~ Wrong place , wrong time, wrong company, your toast ~ If he’s an unknown rogue element, he’s toast.

        You Right Wing Christian Collation types wanted your war on “Terror” , okay ! you got it!

        Be careful what you wish for, ~

  • Vicki

    Bob Livingston writes:
    “In other words, Graham believes that a secret and unaccountable group of people meeting behind closed doors should have the power to determine whether Americans should live or die. And a person can be targeted simply for writing or speaking words that make the 1 percent uncomfortable.”

    There is a rather famous literary name for that. Star Chamber.

    - Bob Livingston: “…… when he was finally cornered in a cabin near Big Bear Lake, Calif., law enforcement officers intentionally burned the building down around him, apparently without giving him an opportunity to surrender.”

    And we have seen this recently before too. Waco.

    Not just Waco. There have been many more recent cases of the government gunning down citizens. The nine bystanders recently shot by police who were supposedly shooting at a “suspected” mass shooter. Or any of several shootings of people in their own homes.

    Or this shooting of an unarmed soldier.
    http://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local/Police-Grand-Central-Parkway-Queens-Shooting-172630441.html

    • Vicki
      • http://myfamilyview.com Clyde

        Having personally been on the receiving end of these star chambers, (UN elected bureaucrats holding ex parte meetings, and making extra-judicial decisions on people and families they know nothing about, and having their dictates enforced at the point of a gun has become an American reality for America’s poor. There are a lot more “back room deals” going on than is ever brought to the light of public opinion.

    • Jeremy Leochner

      With respect to Mr. Livingston I couldn’t help but notice that his statement that “In other words, Graham believes that a secret and unaccountable group of people meeting behind closed doors should have the power to determine whether Americans should live or die. And a person can be targeted simply for writing or speaking words that make the 1 percent uncomfortable.” came immediately after a discussion of Anwar al-Awlaki. I am not saying Al Awkaki should have been killed with a drone. But considering that Mr. Livingston himself says that

      “by Sept. 27, 2001, the FBI had evidence that Anwar al-Awlaki purchased airplane tickets used by three of the 9/11 hijackers: Mohammed Atta, S. Suqami and W. al-Sheri. After Judicial Watch released these findings, the FBI denied to the media that al-Awlaki was connected to the hijackers. The documents also show that al-Awlaki was uncooperative with the FBI agents investigating the attacks.”

      and that

      “On Feb. 5, 2002, four months after the FBI discovered his connection to 9/11, al-Awlaki was invited to the Pentagon for a dinner as part of the military’s outreach to the Muslim community. In other words, less than six months after 9/11, the FBI had a 9/11 conspirator in its grasp and let him walk away. But that would not be last time.

      The documents obtained by Judicial Watch show that al-Awlaki was detained and questioned at JFK airport on Oct. 10, 2002, under a warrant for passport fraud, a felony punishable by up to 10 years in prison. When informed of al-Awlaki’s arrest, the FBI ordered his release. He then flew to Washington, D.C., and eventually to Yemen.”

      I hardly think Awlaki was guilty of nothing more than “writing or speaking words that make the 1 percent uncomfortable:.

      • http://www.boblivingstonletter.com/ Bob Livingston

        Dear Jeremy Leochner,

        The veracity of those FBI documents nor any other supposed “evidence” was proven in a court of law as prescribed by the Constitution, nor has the FBI/CIA/DOD’s actions releasing him and inviting him for dinner been explained.

        Best wishes,
        Bob

      • Wellarmed

        We all know that dead men don’t speak. There are some similarities between Officer Dorner and al-Awlaki. Both had information that would expose those in law enforcement as the corrupt organizations that they are.

        Did al-Awlaki meet the threshold for charges of treason being brought against him? Most likely yes. The reason he is dead and not on trial is that he would have disclosed his involvement with the terrorist act that occurred in Fort Bliss Texas regarding Major Haasan. That terrorist incident is now classified as a work place act of violence. We we all know that it was anything of the sort.

        I did not vote cast a vote for Barrack Obama ( if that is his real name? ), but the only good I thought would come from his Administration was in allowing those held under indefinite detention not only to receive their due process right, but to allow the US Citizenry to truly understand the depths of the CIA torture program by having those detained put on Trial on U.S. Soil and not a Military Tribunal in Guantanamo Bay Cuba.

        Neither has happened and with the extension of the Patriot Act, and now the Passage of The National Defense Authorization Act, It is fairly clear to me that these orchestrated wars had nothing to do with a war on terror. If they were so, I would also say that we have lost as the Terrorist have more than accomplished their objectives as we are now a nation which is completely divided, bankrupt, and about to implode under the weight of our crushing debts.

        Officer Dorner was denied his due process rights, and I was fairly certain of how this scenario was going to play out. I agree with previous comments that it is easy for one to arm chair quarterback as I would not be the one writing the letter(s) to those officers family members had Officer Dorner continued to rack up the body count. With that being said, I am certain that SBCSD could have easily rendered a request for tactical swat vehicle(s) from neighboring jurisdictions with sufficient armor plate and created a wide enough perimeter to have waited him out.

        Following my last observation would have restored some degree of faith that there was still hope for our nation in choosing the path that would bring us inline with our principles and ideals that our country was founded upon.

        It sounds like Officer Dorner did not have sufficient pre-plans to implement his “reign of terror” that was portrayed in his manifesto (if it truly was his manifesto?). Nor based on the fact that he let people go that were not on his target list. Had he executed those civilians that he accosted, he may very well be still on the run to this day. Again we are trusting that the forensics are legit and that it was Dorner in the structure that burned.

        I do not trust the media to look further into Officer Dorners claims that he was wrongfully terminated by the LAPD for turning in a dirty cop. This is where the story will end,
        as dead men do not speak, and I trust that no in the media or justice department will choose to speak for him.

      • Jeremy Leochner

        You make a valid point Mr. Livingston. It just struck me as odd to essentially lay out the case for this man being a terrorist connected to 9/11 and then being astounded and shocked that someone would support this man being killed by a drone.

  • tony newbill

    Mr. Livingston See these Elitists and Politicians are in bed together consolidating the wealth and resources of nations worldwide while the rest of us wither in their Pickle juice , http://www.topaccountingdegrees.org/taxes/ , and while the same SOBs in the authority positions of Policy making tell us Over and Over that they will fix these unfair things if elected but that never seems to happen !!!!! It Never happens because to Control populations in the world is done by controlling the wealth and the resources creating oppression , confusing the citizenry and conflict rises up ….. like we see today in the hot spots around the world .
    Its all in this Blue Print ,

    http://www.lifeissues.net/writers/clo/Kissinger_Report_2004.pdf

  • Digby Macdonald

    This is a most disturbing story and it illustrates the depths of depravity to which the current administration has sunk. The constitution belongs not just to the government to do with as they see fit, but it belongs to the people to protect them against a despotic government. No wonder Americans buy guns.

    • Bob666

      Digby
      you know that drones were used under the previous administration of “W”?

      • Kevin Warren

        That’s true. W started the drone wars and Obama has expanded it. Our government, regardless of political party, has sold it’s soul and is doing more to destroy personal liberty and the American way of life than all the terrorists combined.

        • Digby Macdonald

          Yes, but that was not my reply. You are correct in pointing out that W used drones, but O came in under the premise that he would change these policies. He has, in fact, compounded them. Therefore, Livingstone’s claim that “America (is) Run by Outlaws” has some merit.

          • Kevin Warren

            Yes. I agree with you.

  • Chuck

    I have to disagree with you on this one Mr. Livingston. Dorner had plenty of opportunities to “surrender” before the cabin was burnt down. If he had come out peacefully, key word, peacefully I believe he would be alive today and we would spend thousands of dollars to keep him alive till he died a natural death. I think this scenario played out best for everyone but there is still no justice for the famliies of the victims of Dorners rampage against the truly innocent people in this case.

    • ROGER, Irish-Canadian LIBERTARIAN

      “Chuck” there is so much wrong with what you are saying here but let me boil it down with with this statement : CONSTITUTIONAL but more imporantly, NATURAL or COMMON LAW Rights apply to EVERYONE including and especially, those we are certain committed crimes and are accused of such..

      • Flashy

        1. We are undoubtedly in possession of information which may lead to outing sources if the information is released. Not a good thing to snuff a source…kinda discourages other sources if you know what i mean. And is it wise to not do anything and let the plotting be finalized..and hope we can thwart the attack?

        2. Taking into account #1 above, if we do risk revealing intelligent sources, should there at least be a public notice and demand they turn themselves in to the nearest embassy and be taken here for a civil prosecution where the evidence is presented and they have a fair trial?

        3. Or do we sit back and hope we thwart an attack then go after the plotters with about as much evidence as we now have, label them fugitives…and use public outrage as justification to snuff ‘em?

      • Charlie

        Roger,,,
        What would a heathen know about “Common Law””???

    • Kevin Warren

      Chuck, respectfully, as despicable as Dorner’s alleged actions were, the US Constitution entitles him to due process. He was safely contained. He wasn’t going anywhere. The cops could have simply waited him out depriving him of food, water, and electricity. The same thing they could have done in Waco where they also started a fire killing 86 people including 28 innocent children.

      • Chester

        Kevin, this man had no intention of going ANYWHERE with the police as long as he was capable of pulling a trigger. From what I have picked up here and there since the firefight, he quite possibly was past the point of being able to leave under his own power, but was still taking pot shots at anyone who exposed themselves. Now, do you keep on sending men in to take hits just to see if he is still alive, or do you take the chance that he has an escape route laid out that you know nothing about. In this case, they knew nothing about the cabin he was in other than the fact that he was there, and while they had all known exits covered, there was the distinct possibility he knew things they didn’t, such as an escape tunnel.

      • ROGER,Irish-Canadian LIBERTARIAN

        Waco will forever remain a perfect example of the natural EVIL of the state…… the ABSOLUTE TERROR those children must have felt, especially from authorities who are pledged to protect them

      • eddie47d

        Yes Waco was disturbing yet the proof against Koresh was damning also. Don’t you think those “children felt terror” for years when they were forced to have sex with David as the will of God. Koresh was well armed to keep the law at bay so he wasn’t just some innocent and helpless victim. He was the victimizer and those children payed dearly for his sins.

      • Vicki

        eddie47d says:
        “Yes Waco was disturbing yet the proof against Koresh was damning also.”

        What proof would that be eddie?

        This source does not agree.
        http://www.serendipity.li/waco.html

      • eddie47d

        Now apparently Vicki likes Utopians like Koresh no matter what evil lies behind the curtain! I also blame the government for overreacting but there was plenty of time for David to prove his case but he insisted in being a martyr. I noticed the article brought up “legal” weapons but I reckon David isn’t the only abusive pedophile in life who owned weapons. Society is full of controlling abusive people and Koresh used the most venerable.

  • Jean

    Please don’t insult the outlaws—they have a great deal more respect for the US than
    this president has

    • eddie47d

      You must be a friend of the mafia Jean. You must be a supporter of the banksters who collasped our economy. You must think Awlaki was a poster boy for decency. Will you be in Yankee Stadium when the terrorists strike there or in the local courthouse? Are your “outlaws” Meth dealers or an investment firm bilking you out of money? We know how much they love the Constitution and hide behind it every chance they get.

      • cawmun cents

        The gubment is the Mafia eddie47d,or dont you realize that they dont like competition yet?-CC.

  • Bob666

    What is the diferance between a drone in the air and a gun on the ground in a fire-fight?

    • Alex Frazier

      The gun on the ground needs a hand to wield it. A soldier has to put his or herself into harm’s way. In the event of extreme civil unrest, where the people have taken up arms against a tyrannical government, soldiers on the ground versus drones in the air is the difference between the citizens fighting an enemy they can overcome and shooting at machines in the air that will just keep coming, and coming with missiles at that.

      The soldier on the ground also can’t scout miles of ground looking for heat signatures so he can ambush a group of “rebels” in the middle of the night while they sleep. Soldiers can’t reasonably monitor large groups of people who might go off in multiple directions.

      There are a lot of things drones can do that boots on the ground can’t. Why else do you think the government, even at the state level, is so hard up to put drones in the air? It’s a significant advantage over the boots on the ground.

      • Bob666

        Yo Alex,
        “There are a lot of things drones can do that boots on the ground can’t. Why else do you think the government, even at the state level, is so hard up to put drones in the air? It’s a significant advantage over the boots on the ground.”

        You missed my point, guns on the ground or drones in the air, someone gets killed. what is the differance other than Technology?

        Bottom line is-it’s war, from swords to drones, people get killed. There are a lot of details and facts that we will never know, but many of there folks deserved to meet their virgins.

  • http://PersonalLivertyDigest Mark

    Vicky and Jeremy, we have become a lawless society from the top down. Mr Livingston prefers to only talk about the “top”, but it is pervasive. You see, Americans love to break the law, we simply have a problem with being caught. Obama virtually brags in his book about “smoking reefer.” That is a felony! Oh, but its ok because he did not get caught. What about you? When was the last time you “fudged” on your taxes, drove after too many drinks, went over the speed limit, texted while driving, or bragged to your kids or friends about all the crazy (and yes illegal) things you did when you were younger? And it’s all ok because you didn’t get caught.

    • James L Smith

      We’ve got so many laws the average citizen can’t live one day in this country without breaking a law, we break so many dumb laws we pay less and less attention to all laws.

      • http://PersonalLivertyDigest Mark

        Very true. However, if we did pay attention to the laws, we would also be very active in what laws we ALLOWED our elected officials to pass. We would also immediately feel any infringement on our liberties if we did not have such an ambivalent attitude towards the continual passing of new laws.

      • cawmun cents

        What we “feel” is irrelevant to the folks we elct to represent us.
        They speak of “conditions that need to be changed” to get elected but then fall rank and file into the insidious political correctness that is our modern legislative process.
        A hearkening to ehtics and virtue is never again a part of their political perspective,seeing as they all too willingly violate due process and libery by instituting laws which mean and do nothing.
        It is acondition of not having a “higher power” to answer to.
        Therefore since they believe that because THEY are that higher power,they become corrupted by that inclination toward incorrectly providing that which only a higher power can provide.
        Hence our current state of confusion and lawlessness.
        -CC.

    • Jeremy Leochner

      Mark the issue in regards to Obama smoking is it happened years ago. I am not saying it should be ignored. But if the standard for being in office is whether or not you smoked weed or did something illegal when you were young I am pretty sure most Presidents would not qualify for office. And the problem with throwing the word “lawless” around is lawless is a absolutist term with no qualifiers. If we were really lawless from the top down there would be no order or law at all. There would be anarchy or Tyranny. Neither of those applies.

    • mark

      Smoking a marijauna joint is not a felony. In most states its is a lowgrade misdemeanor. In others it is like getting a parking ticket, it’s decriminalized. You simply pay a small fine.

      • Vicki

        The times they are a changin. What was the punishment when who smoked what. Time is a factor with Constitutional laws. For unconstitutional laws they are null and void from inception.

  • Warrior

    The “dohner” incident seemed like an excellent “opportunity” to employ “the drone”. I’ll bet there will be more “opportunities” in the future and I’ll also bet we’ll live to see it. Beginning to look as though the most dangerous “outlaw” is the “elite” type. Of course, when it happens, maybe somewhere along the border, and the “media” gets to show it, a whole lot of people will think it’s sooo cool. Abortion was only the beginning. Later “term” is all the rage now. this is just a natural extension of sick minds.

    • eddie47d

      Then those on the right need to stop sending mixed signals especially on the Border issue. For some time now several of you have said you want it secured no matter what it takes.Yet when it comes to spy planes on the border you all freak out. If you value human life then why would you want thousands of troops on the border ready to lock and load. Why would you praise the Minutemen Defense militia ready to shoot to kill on the border? If these drones monitor the border and report to the Border Agents where they are coming across so they can be ready then where is the problem?

      • ranger09

        Well one thing for sure, people coming across the border they are not Legal, Violation of fed law, BUT we do not jail them or kill them, We feed them and then send them back home. Whats Right and whats Wrong. Maybe we should consider them all terrorists and just kill them, Then the problem would be solved.

      • eddie47d

        At least Ranger spills the beans on Conservative thinking. Honesty or an evil mind? (that an awful lot of killing there bud)

  • TIME

    Dear Bob,

    Saddly when “PURE EVIL” ~ is the form of Governance of any land ” Criminal Acts” are going to be the order of the day. Saddly these acts will be sold by the greased wheel of the { Totaly Controlled Mass Media } as nessary in order to remain safe from what ever precieved CRIME they can sell by any means be it, ~ Overt or Covert.

    One must ask ~ How odd is it that the very Criminals who sell this Confounding Logic,
    are in fact the { TRUE CRIMINALS } within this equation.
    Yet they became the leaders of nations where these form of crime exist by the way of the illiterate Sheep who vote them into office, ~ TIME afer TIME ~ Oddly ~ with the same hollow promise.

    This has all been wittnessed now over the last 100 years alone in nations such as ~ Russia, Turkey, The United Kingdom, France, Italy, German, Camboidia, China, Cuba, let alone ~ so many South American nations as well African nations that one may as well just say all of them. Now with the aid of the United Nations, ~ oddly the true base of the Criminal Operations.

    We in this nation, have not only turned our collective backs on GOD, but we have also allowed Criminals to run this nation now for well over 100 years,
    It seems that as long as Foot ball is on the bloody tube, and the Happy Meals are flowing all is well in the nation of Babylon, where “CONFOUNDING LOGIC” ~ is the magic key of the moment.

    Peace and Love, Shalom,

    Please people ask the Holy Sprit into your soul. Do it now before its too late.

    • sam1966

      Well said fellow patriot. Here is something showing where Sheila Jackson Lee is claiming to be a freed slave. If this is possible, she would be between 150 – 160 years old.

      http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/daily/2013/02/14/sheila_jackson_lee_i_m_a_freed_slave

      I think this woman is out of her mind. But alas! The 5th column is always out of their minds. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY! 하나님하고 나라를 위해서!

      You need both love of country and faith in God to be a patriot.

      “The Bible is the best of all books, for it is the word of God and teaches us the way to be happy in this world and in the next. Continue therefore to read it and to regulate your life by its precepts.”

      John Jay
      Letter to Peter Augustus
      April 8th, 1784

  • D. Daug

    The way I heard it through the grapevine is that Dorner was getting to turn in the evidence on a bunch of crooked cops. So Dorner had to be made out as a killer and had to be killed so he could not talk.

    • eddie47d

      Last week Dorner was labeled as a Liberal Obama lover by PLD and his claim of racism in the LAPD was scooted under the rug. This week its claimed his rights are now being trampled on and the LAPD is accused of denying him his free speech. This seems to be a classic case of playing good cop bad cop to stir the pot on this issue. When all along bad behavior in the LAPD has been well known.

      • Capitalist at Birth.

        What bad behavior is well known?

      • eddie47d

        Beatings by police and SWAT team raids.

      • Vicki

        eddie47d says:
        “Last week Dorner was labeled as a Liberal Obama lover by PLD”

        By disclosing the manifesto (supposedly) written by Dorner.

        - eddie47d: “This week its claimed his rights are now being trampled on and the LAPD is accused of denying him his free speech.”

        Where? It is simply being observed that he was executed.

        - eddie47d: “This seems to be a classic case of playing good cop bad cop”

        not even close.

        - eddie47d: “When all along bad behavior in the LAPD has been well known.”

        And, according to many reports, well ignored.

      • eddie47d

        I see Vicki can be gullible too! Atta girl!

  • Stuart Shepherd

    It’s just the “liberal” (meaning “I can do whatever I want and you can’t say or do anything about it because you’re bound by self-imposed ethics and decency and I’m not”) totalitarian mentality (if you can call it that). In the end, it’s a substitution of “Un-natural law” for natural law. I believe it’s way beyond the time of being able to turn “America” around. “America” is the people- the “people” (by and large) are corrupted. It’s funny that, in a way, the President Obama most resembles in terms of his totalitarianism is the first Republican president, and the one he frequently favorably compares himself to in his narcissism- Abraham Lincoln.

    • eddie47d

      Nice of you to play the Liberal card Stuart. Did you forget it was G Bush who gave you the Patriot Act, who invited Awalki to the White House, started at least one and maybe two unnecessary wars where thousands died. “totalitarian”, “un-natural”, “ethics” my arse! Conservatives go along with the same programs and it just depends who is at bat. Cheney was the ultimate Conservative if you can comprehend my drift.

      • independent thinker

        “Did you forget it was G Bush who gave you the Patriot Act, ”

        And Bush has been condemed many times for it by the CONSERVATIVES on this site.

      • eddie47d

        Maybe Stuart is a closet Conservative then.

  • Flashy

    “As Judge Andrew Napolitano points out ..” errrr, not exactly a source which lends legitimacy to any argument. Just saying citing a wacked out rabid foamin’ at the mouth paid hack extremist doesn’t do much for credence of any argument.

    As to the drone attacks. interesting when compared to the many comments on this site in the past calling for wiping out any follower of Islam for whatever reason. I won’t legitimize the drone attacks…it’s an unsettled area in my opinion. We have Gitmo where folks were tortured and held without trial or charges or even having identities released to the public. When the prisoners were to be brought to the US for public trial…the extremist right stood on their hind legs and roared in outrage. ironic that they now demand Constitutional Rights for those not within the jurisdiction of the US ain’t it?

    The issue, as i see it, is whether we should give PUBLIC notice to the accused. There is little doubt if they are involved as alleged they know the life span is measured in days, weeks months. If they are innocent of the accusations, then they would have no clue. Anyone disagree? If they are, in fact, entwined in plotting against us, then any notice will be ineffective, any demand ineffective, and their plots would go on and we’d have to face the attack.

    OK…so it’s a simple solution. If we get past the security issues.

    1. We are undoubtedly in possession of information which may lead to outing sources if the information is released. Not a good thing to snuff a source…kinda discourages other sources if you know what i mean. And is it wise to not do anything and let the plotting be finalized..and hope we can thwart the attack?

    2. Taking into account #1 above, if we do risk revealing intelligent sources, should there at least be a public notice and demand they turn themselves in to the nearest embassy and be taken here for a civil prosecution where the evidence is presented and they have a fair trial?

    3. Or do we sit back and hope we thwart an attack then go after the plotters with about as much evidence as we now have, label them fugitives…and use public outrage as justification to snuff ‘em?

    Mr. Livingston? Anyone else? Your views?

    • momo

      Flashy says:”Just saying citing a wacked out rabid foamin’ at the mouth paid hack extremist doesn’t do much for credence of any argument.

      Self description doesn’t become you flashman.

      • Flashy

        momo…

        1. We are undoubtedly in possession of information which may lead to outing sources if the information is released. Not a good thing to snuff a source…kinda discourages other sources if you know what i mean. And is it wise to not do anything and let the plotting be finalized..and hope we can thwart the attack?

        2. Taking into account #1 above, if we do risk revealing intelligent sources, should there at least be a public notice and demand they turn themselves in to the nearest embassy and be taken here for a civil prosecution where the evidence is presented and they have a fair trial?

        3. Or do we sit back and hope we thwart an attack then go after the plotters with about as much evidence as we now have, label them fugitives…and use public outrage as justification to snuff ‘em?

      • cawmun cents

        This is not a “for us or against us argumment”,rather it is an argument of “who makes the rules of engagement?”
        Apparently as in the case we argue here,it is for the government to decide.
        The inherent problem with that has been that often governments make their own citizens the target of their disdain.The rammifications are that eventually enemies that may not necessarily be enemies of the popuace at large,are given that status by the givers of information to the populace at large.
        An enemy of the nation,or public enemy #1,is established by what is perceived by the populace at large,as a threat to society at large.Be they robbers of Federal Reserve Banks,or members of notorious terrorism afilliated organizations,or enemies by declaration of war.
        We have a Code of Justice,which should be tempered be a Code of Ethics,but we have been victimized by our information system into accepting these premises of enmity above,as part or whole of the design of the Justice system.They are a separate and differing notion,yet are,instead of being set apart…lumped together in the information stage.It is as if we have decided the fate of individuals based on the information we have been given before all of the pertinent information has been revealed.
        Hence the old addage,”Judge not lest ye be judged.”
        The tendency to make snap judgements based on heresay and derision,is the condition of having been programmed to respond in a certain way to information that may be suspect to say the least,according to whom it is being presented and represented by.
        This being the case,it would seem as if most if not all of the populace trusts the inherent sources of information being available to the public at large.
        Some of us,being able to see what is not written,and hear what is not being said,question the motives of those who write and speak to the populace at large,under the guise of acceptable media outlets and sources.It is and has always been a good thing when questioning authority is encouraged among members of a society.The prevailing condition has been that bickering by left/right paradigm supporters keeps right and wrong from being clear and concisely defined,to the detriment of our national security,and our societal needs.
        So a clear and concise definition of “enemy of the state”,and “public enemy number one”,
        is always debateable by left/right paradigmal thought processes,and therefore boundaries of governmental rules of engagement,become hazy and easily misconstrued,if not Constitutionally allowable.
        People tend to bend toward easy solvency when it comes to their health and welfare as a whole,which is why we are faced with this dilemna of what is right and wrong to do about it today.They are easily victimized by entities which represent themselves as givers of information,because those entities have in the past,been trusted to provide pertinent information,while not being conditionally representational of a slant to one side or the other,based upon their patterns of thought,and political motivation.
        In todays world,it would seem that this has changed to ignore what is pertinent,and exhort that which seems plausible,and valid,accoerding to how the conditons are seen as politically correct.
        Ethics,and Justice,and the codes thereof,are ignored and redefined,according to the emotional content of the nformation available.
        Such a condition if allowed to continue,will result in “heartsleeve Journalism”,which is exactly what we see driving our political process today.
        Safety is heralded as more tantamount based on emotional argument,to be more virtuous than freedom.So you can see why there is a call for an “enemy of the state”,or a “public enemy #1′s head on a platter for the populace to “ooh and awe” over.Having never been allowed to come before a jury of his peers,Dorner was summarily executed by the ruling area authorites,culminating in destruction of private property,and personal rights,while the adoring public was content to watch the drama unfold.
        What does that say about us as a nation?
        What kind of message does that send to seekers of freedom around the world?
        Not a pretty picture folks.
        Cheers!
        -CC.

      • sam1966

        I understand what you are saying Flashman, but try to post something else. It is getting very repetative. Here is something dealing with Obama bin Laden’s sacrificing 4 Americans at Benghazi.

        http://www.conservativevideos.com/2013/02/terrorism-expert-says-new-info-on-lybia-will-amaze-shock-when-it-it-comes-out/

        FOR GOD AND COUNTRY! 하나님하고 나라를 위해서!

        You need both love of country and faith in God to be a patriot. This leaves Flashman out.

        “Unot Him who is the author and giver of all good, I render sincere and humble thanks for His manifold and unmerited blessings, and especially for our redemption and salvation by His beloved Son…Blessed be His holy name.”

        John Jay

  • john

    Unfortunately, Iran a Muslim Theocracy has declared war on America as it has on all Christians, Jews and non- muslims, and every country they are near or in has bloody boarders or insurections to overthrow and convert or die their citizens, therefore they should be war casualties while they live to fulfile their mission of World genecide of innocent non- muslims. They are at War now infiltrating the Whitehouse, Congress, State Department, Military, FBI, CIA, STATE GOVERNMENTS and building mosk war compounds in our cities not a religion center but intolerant terrorist center waiting for our muslim president to give the jihad call to terrorize America for Islahm under George Sonos.

  • mark

    The police should have made more efforts to capture Mr. Dorner or talk him into surrendering peacefully. While it is true that such efforts might have led to the death of 3 or 4 more policemen to add to Mr. Dorner’s growing murder and casualty list, such efforts should have been made. The wives and chldren of the additional murdered policemen should accept the fact that Mr. Dorner’s Constitutional rights, even though he has committed several murderer, far exceed the right of their policemen husbands to live. This would also provide a wonderful incentive for more young men to join the police force knowing that their superiors will always recklessly throw police officers lives away in order to ensure that murderers’ Constitutional rights are scrupulously upheld. After all most these policemen come from the working class and the poor. They should be happy to sacrifice their lives so that well-to-do Liberatarians watching them on T.V. safely in their comfortable livingrooms are not offended in anyway over the maltreatment of rifle-armed violent offenders’ Constitutional rights. In fact trying to take away Mr. Dorner’s rifles and firearms is in itself a violation of his Second Amendment rights. Imagine the nerve of these police officer attempting to do this. It is up to Libertarians and Conservatives watching all of this safely on their T.V.s at home to set these fascist police officers right. These police officers should all be imprisoned for what they did, especially for their unwillingness to die so that Mr. Dorner could have every concieivable option regarding his sacred rights as an American citizen. As for his murder victims, well tough luck, this is the price we must pay for protecting Americans’ Constitutional rights to own every conceivable firearm and evidently kill anyone they please. Talk to the NRA, they will no doubt back Dorner up on this.

    • Jimmy the Greek

      Well if the police were afraid of being killed , they could have called in sick or went home !

    • Vicki

      mark says:
      “The police should have made more efforts to capture Mr. Dorner or talk him into surrendering peacefully.”

      Actually all they had to do is make LESS effort.

      “During the inferno, CNN quoted police on the scene who said they “pushed him back in” to the burning cabin when Dorner tried to escape.”
      http://www.workers.org/2013/02/13/lapd-vs-chris-dorner-the-real-state-of-the-union/

      The rest of the argument to ridicule deleted without further comment.

      • Vicki

        And this video contains the audio of a police scanner recording of the intentional fire.

        (Presumes that the audio not faked) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lrJ18p6McT0

      • Right Brain Thinker

        Vicki says with regard to Mark’s comments. “The rest of the argument to ridicule deleted without further comment”. Actually, i didn’t find much that was “ridiculous” in what Mark said, certainly not as much as we often hear from Vicki. Why doesn’t Vicki want to make “further comment” an Mark’s “argument”?

        I will do so, even if she won’t. “Well said, Mark. You have looked at this from exactly the correct perspective”

        • Bob666

          Yo RBT
          Me thnks you are having way to much fun today

      • Right Brain Thinker

        What? I can’t support Mark for being a smart and perceptive guy, who tells it like it is and doesn’t play games like Vicki, without being accused of “having too much fun”? Dang, devil#bob, you of all people should realize how hard I work at our “mission” here. Frank Kahn just about wore me out on the other thread—-it is pure dedication that leads me to support Mark here. Don’t you agree that he said it well?

  • Digby Macdonald

    Re: comment by Kevin Warren. It is good to see that a few like Kevin still have common sense on this issue.

  • ibcamn

    This seems to be a trend with police.they know the smoke canister they are flinging into the cabin burn over 700 degrees(most smoke grenades are made for concrete and steel buildings or outdoors)like has been said by me and others,Wako,they know it burns wood,fast!Maybe the police were too cheap to buy seperate canisters of smoke devises(there are several styles and grades of them) you can talk all you want about the police and we won’t ever know.only a whistleblower can do it and that person better have been there!we all know the police are as crocked as hell(well,most are)and will cover up anything that can hurt them,they believe they are above the law!!
    Now you have the gov’t that has been thinking this for years!and they figure,we can’t prove it,so lets just kill them,and if some one else is with,too bad,even if the other people are guilty of something else!they have been letting police and judges and courts and other elitist get away with what ever they want,doing it any way they want!!now the gov’t wants to feel better about stomping on the constitution and get away with it,behind closed doors!Obama and his henchmen are doing everything they can to go around the rights and laws of American citizens,Obama simply doesn’t care about us!
    All this is some kind deal where they are putting some backdoor deals and courts(against the people)in place for future use so they can fall back on this and say,”we have used this in the past!”or”we have dealt with this legally”or some crap like that.they want these progressive laws so they can do what they want!
    Plain and simple,it’s illegal and unconstitutional!

    • Flashy

      Dohner shouldn’t be held out as a cause celebre’. he was a cop killer. Is there any doubt to that? Is there any doubt, with the media in attendance, if he had tossed out his weapons, he’d have been taken alive (hmmm…wasn’t he packing a whole bunch of military type weaponry?)

      he faced a choice…when the fire began, he could have given up, tossed out the weaponry and came out with hands held high. Instead, he snuffed himself …

      Yeah…what a poster boy for a cause celebre’ … and y’all castigate the LAPD when the guy had choices???????

      • Vicki

        Flashy says:
        “Dohner shouldn’t be held out as a cause celebre’. he was a cop killer. Is there any doubt to that?”

        And what would be your source of info? Was there a jury trial I missed?

        - Flashy: “Is there any doubt, with the media in attendance, if he had tossed out his weapons, he’d have been taken alive.”

        “During the inferno, CNN quoted police on the scene who said they “pushed him back in” to the burning cabin when Dorner tried to escape. This contradicted later claims that Dorner had probably killed himself with a single gunshot before the fire started.”
        http://www.workers.org/2013/02/13/lapd-vs-chris-dorner-the-real-state-of-the-union/

        - Flashy: ” (hmmm…wasn’t he packing a whole bunch of military type weaponry?)”

        As is his right till he is tried and CONVICTED in a court of law as required by the SUPREME LAW of this land.

      • Vicki

        Here is more on the media coverage
        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lrJ18p6McT0

  • Jose A Guerra

    The worst part is we have legitimized killing “Without Due Process” therefore could never prosecute any other country who kills in the name their “National Defense”. This would mean that maybe Hitler, Pinochet, Franco or even Sadam Husein’s course of action were correct! Since they were killing in the name of what they considered a threat to their National Secutity”. So what would the differnce be?

    • Flashy

      1. We are undoubtedly in possession of information which may lead to outing sources if the information is released. Not a good thing to snuff a source…kinda discourages other sources if you know what i mean. And is it wise to not do anything and let the plotting be finalized..and hope we can thwart the attack?

      2. Taking into account #1 above, if we do risk revealing intelligent sources, should there at least be a public notice and demand they turn themselves in to the nearest embassy and be taken here for a civil prosecution where the evidence is presented and they have a fair trial?

      3. Or do we sit back and hope we thwart an attack then go after the plotters with about as much evidence as we now have, label them fugitives…and use public outrage as justification to snuff ‘em?

    • Texas Ride

      Actually, Jose, people like Saddam ruled the way they had to rule. It takes a “Saddam” to rule a barbaric country. To control barbarians, one must be the ” biggest, baddest barbarian” of them all.
      They respect nothing else. They are primitive people and they are the living remains of a Seventh Century Theocracy.

  • David

    This should not be a surprise. Go back and read history (if it has not been revised). Read about how Hitler started, he kill lots of German’s before he turned his focus on the Jews. He knew what he was doing by starting at the bottom of their society like those who were criminals and were deemed insane. And he kept moving up that latter until he had it comon place to kill those his government said needed to be killed.Then and only then did he turn his media machine loose on the Jewish people making everyone believe they were the cause of all their troubles. (not everyone believed as he did, but you better watch who you said that to, even peoples own kids turned in their parents for speaking out against him). He took control of their minds at a very early age (remind you that OBAMA now wants your kids in school at age 4 now). We are on a slippery slope and when they are able to take away the 2nd amendment, we will loose our grip and move fast down the slope to the bottom. We can only hope that we won’t repeat history in some kind of form.
    IHS David

    • Walt

      Hi Dave,

      Just a small suggestion. Please research the Weimar Republic. Many of us have heard about the Weimar Republic for the runaway hyper-inflation and it’s ruinous results on the German financial and social environment; but, few of us knew what the Weimar Republic was all about beyond the hyper-inflation issue, and who specifically were the folks running the Weimar Republic.

      Although Hitler is credited with “gun control”, did you know that draconian gun control measures in Germany were actually implemented way before Hitler took power in 1933?

      Did you know that it was the leftist politicians of the Weimar Republic that saw the need to disarm the German population, to facilitate the way for converting Germany into another communist state like Russia had in 1918? Sound familiar?

      Do you know who was the President of the Weimar Republic and most of the supporting political class associated with the Weimar republic? Their role in the Treaty of Versailles?

      Researching all this should bring a new light to the “cause & effect” of what happened after 1933, provided you have an open, unbiased, truth seeking approach to the facts.

    • Texas Ride

      Purge the regime of power. Re-direct the power back to the States, even if it is only until a time that a true constitutional, limited, federal government can be re-established. We don’t need the monstrosity that is eating away at the very fabric of this country.

      The way to purge Washington is to take away the power to control “our” money. It is always all about money and that is where the “power” comes to rule the rest of us.

      Americans are the ones that need to benefit from the taxes they pay…not oil rich countries or terrorist organizations. Stop government from supporting their anti-American ideology with money confiscated in the name of “taxation.” It is time the American taxpayers “get their fair share.” Decentralize the all-encompasing power of the regime.

  • Chester

    So, in the case of Al Alwaki, rather than take the traitor out the simplest, cleanest way possible, with a drone strike, we either let him keep on working against our country’s interests, or we send in a SEAL team and hope they can take him out and get back alive. A SEAL team is NOT sent in to arrest someone, but they will do so if the party in question surrenders. Some how, I just don’t see Al Alwaki surrendering to any American force when his death by explosive suicide would guarantee him a place in heaven with his flock of virgins.

    • Gea

      This way (killing by drones) EVERYBODY is happy, even the terrorist being killled by drones, since he became a martyr and thus automatically he is ensured a Muslim Paradise with 72 virgins and 12 prepubescent boys which they could not have on Earth, because islam only allows 4 wives at the time (and boys if they can get parents to sell them).

      Our drone researchers have jobs, the CEO of arms industry have a great income and US taxpayers pay, pay, pay if they are working or live on the dole on a borrowed money from the Arabs and China… Navy seals have their exciting jobs and can retire early and pursue some other career like that guy from Blackwell Inc…now renamed into something elose. One big happy family keps by Barry Soetoro Hussein Obama, just like Mohamed’s family of 12 wives and little boys ;-)!

      Isnt’ America great or what ;-)!

      • eddie47d

        Yet GEA we glorify the Defense Industry in America and Conservatives in Congress want to grow it not reduce it. As long as they are producing weapons Congress will be producing wars to justify those weapons. That is false flag Patriotism and it was happening long before Obama. Stop supporting the Defense Industry, stop supporting government contractors who are milking our country to death. These private contractors cost the taxpayers $360 billion in our government buying goods and services from them. They cost us more than all our service members in all branches and civilian employees who work at the bases. Yes we should also stop hiring Blackwater (XE) who think they are all James Bonds. They were hired by the Bush/Cheney team so lay it on the Pentagon and defense spenders in Washington. (no matter which party)

      • independent thinker

        “Yet GEA we glorify the Defense Industry in America and Conservatives in Congress want to grow it not reduce it.”

        Wrong. Every member of congress with defense related industries in their district no matter if liberal, progressive, concervative, or other wants to either keep the status quo or increase defense spending as concerns the defense industry in their districts.

      • eddie47d

        Wrong?! Tell me a Conservative who doesn’t vote for Defense Budgets increases?

    • ranger09

      The problem most people have with Drones IS all the Innocent citizens that have been killed to take out a few suspected terrorists. Plus how many more enemys do we make by killing all these innocent people. ?? And also as most know the information we have has not always been correct.

      • Proteus1946

        “You cannot qualify war in harsher terms than I will. War is cruelty and you cannot refine it… You might as well appeal against the thunder storm as against these terrible hardships of war… ”

        “There is many a boy here today who looks on war as all glory, but boys, it is all hell.”

        General W.T. Sherman, 1864

        When a country like the U.S. declares a war against a stateless and nebulous gang of extremist jihadists, you are going to get exactly what we’re seeing now. At least combat missions of the Army have pretty much ended, leaving only the so-called ‘leaders’ to take out. Drone strikes are a much better method to use when compared to the carpet-bombing raids of WWII. Were any ‘innocent’ civilians killed when we fire bombed Tokyo? Or Dresdin? Or Hamburg?

  • flipped54

    What is disturbing is the fact that, before the cabin incident, the LAPD fired on other vehicles with innocent people in the vehicle. They didn’t even verify if the vehicles were Dorner’s vehicle. There is more than one truck like Dorner’s truck in California. Luckily those innocent folks didn’t get killed. Is it standard procedure to shoot before verifying identity?

    • http://wildeyguns.com The Christian American

      You must know, police officers are indoctrinated into thinking that all people are, so to speak, their enemies. Be suspicious of everyone. They are taught to fear the public. If Obama hopes to takeover America, he must cause a division between the public and government people. That’s what he’s up to.

      Police were taught to be judge, jury and executioner of actions. Judge one, Make a decision and then act. Soldiers are indocrinated to become executioners, kill on command. That’s the training the police are given now-a-days.

    • Capitalist at Birth.

      Not that I have paid that close of attention to the goings on with this murderers flight from justice, but this is the first mentions of this occurrence I have hear. Can you document these claims, please?

      • independent thinker

        I have read about two cases for sure. One was a couple delivering I think newspapers. The other I do not remember anything about now other than the police shot up the truck without warning. I will see if I can find the source.

      • http://www.boblivingstonletter.com/ Bob Livingston

        Dear Capitalist at Birth,

        You write: “Can you document these claims, please?” Links embedded. http://personalliberty.com/2013/02/13/la-cops-on-wild-shooting-spree/

        Best wishes,
        Bob

    • ranger09

      Seems like this is the Govt standards for today, And its called justified. Seems like the Innocent has more to fear from the military and the police than the criminals.

  • JAS

    The American way of life has long since gone away. Technology now rules our lives. Big brother knows where we are at all times, there is no such thing as privacy and with 40 years of liberal indoctrination in the public education system (aka Hitler’s mantra) and the results of startling.
    Our kids (yes up to the 40 and 50 year olds) know more, care more about who’s on American Idol, Survivor, the Big Bang Theory than current economic, and political events which are shaping and more importantly ruining our future and theirs.
    The lies from governments at every level, from the smallest hamlet to the federal level, and from both parties is so wide spread that it is easier to find when they tell the truth versus lie through the obfuscation of words.
    We need term limits in all branches of government, we need a complete and utter ENEMA of our government.

    • Alex Frazier

      What’s unfortunate, JAS, is that occupying ourselves with American Idol, football, or whatever, is precisely what we should be doing if our government weren’t running amuck. We shouldn’t have to watch over their shoulder every step of the way. We should be able to elect our officials, trust them to do their job competently, and enjoy life in what is supposed to be a free country while they handle matters of true national security, domestic policy, etc.

      But because our elected officials can’t be trusted to do what they should be doing and because they pass or propose laws at every opportunity that violate the Constitution, we have no choice but to watch their every move to ensure the preservation of our own liberty. And while some of us occupy our time watching them, we are deprived the privilege of watching American Idol, football, or whatever it is that entertains us, in order to safeguard our own freedom.

      It’s really kind of pathetic.

    • Lyndia

      I couldn’t agree more….it’s time that the American People wake up and stand together against this stranger in the WH and his cronies before he has us all killing each other!! This is getting far to out of hand. He is cutting away at our military & our defenses while building up a “Homeland Security” force that will have the right to walk into our homes and take away our right to privacy. Drones will be patroling our country and shooting down people who fight back!! The push to take our guns away is NOT to protect the citizens; it is a way to leave us totally defenseless against a government gone mad!!
      Obama is a “Puppet”, groomed since childhood by his people…an actor who has his “scripts” handed to him!! The proof is the fact that he could very easily show the American People that he is “the real thing” by presenting the “PROOF” of who he claims to be!! Most citizens are proud to show proof that they are Americans, yet we supposedly have this stranger in our nations highest office who hides his……WHY???? This guy deserves an Oscar for his ability to lie, & deceive so many people for so long along with his life prison sentence, or perhaps shot as a traitor for attempting to be the Pied Piper leading the American People to their slaughter!!!!

      • Texas Ride

        Lyndia, I agree with a lot you have to say. The regime is honing it expertise, by using killer drones out of country. By the time they use the drones on Americans dissenters, there will be a lot of expert drone handlers. I hear they are wanting to give “medals” to the best of them, already.

        But, there is a question that I can’t keep from my mind, even though it is not about drones. We need to know who obammie’s “handler” is and why she has 24/7 access to obammie..She has “handled” the careers of both of the obammies and she was the one to introduce moochie to bammie. Ole Valerie Jarrett, who is she, why does she deserve “secret service protection,” where does she come from, and why is she seen as the true power behind the throne of America.

        There are lots of questions to be answered if anyone cared to ask. Why does this woman meet with the fraud in the oval office, everyday. Who does she represent, it sure isn’t the people of America. The unelected Jarett seems to be running our country with obammie as the “mouthpiece.”
        She seems to be here to ride herd on the obammies. She has to be sure he doesn’t make too many mistakes and she musst see that he is kept in-line. Do we really know who runs our government, I think not.

  • Jose A Guerra

    The worst I see is we have legitimized “Killing Without Due Process” in the name of defending our “National Security”. Therefore, this would virtually justify the course of action taken by Hitler, Pinochet or even Sadam Husein who killed maybe not as sofisticated as but never the less was done in what they considered a threst to their “National Security”.

    • eddie47d

      You are correct yet the American people demanded action in the War on Terrorism. They wanted results and heads on the platter and to “feel safe”. Don’t be naive in thinking differently. Revenge is an American tradition especially in taming the Wild West. We had “the only good Indian is a dead Indian” philosophy and “hang ‘um high” mentality. This drone killings is nothing new and no more than a continuance of the past.

      • Texas Ride

        eddie, very typical of a brain-washed, American-hating lib. You just stated what you really think about our country and its people!

        You think Americans and their country is bad, always has been bad, and always will be bad. Get the heck on a plane and go some place “nice” like one of those little pathetic socialist countries that are ruled by dictators.

        Oops, maybe you are already in a socialist country that is ruled by a dictator!

      • eddie47d

        Taking both sides Texas Ride in the killing of Awlaki? So killing Indians is patriotic to you? Yes your great American traditions are continuing. The only difference is what they are wearing! Apparently you are wearing no clothes in your snippy remark and have been exposed. That plane to Antarctica is now loading!

      • Texas Ride

        eddie, as usual you are not making “sense.”

        Comparing Awlaki to indians, give me a break!
        We all know you are anti-American and that is why you support Comrade obammie.

    • Texas Ride

      I could really care less about Al Awlaki’s death. I don’t see any difference in killing him than killing Bin Ladin. We knew what he was and what he was doing. We also knew that he was “Not” an American. I don’t see anchor babies, born to illegal parents, as real Americans! No other country would have claimed Awlaki as their citizen because he happened to be “dropped” within their borders. Neither should we. Conferring citizenship on illegals because they were born within our borders must stop. That really “cheapens American citizenship.”

      At only a couple years old, Awlaki was taken back to Yemen and raised as a muslim terrorist! And, since when have we been upset by collateral damage. Awlaki’s son was not an American. This is just moral outrage from the “weepers” and it makes no sense. Many his age have been killed what is so special about this one. We should not give the “Coveted rights of American citizenship” to foreign terrorists and bemoan their deaths. It is good for American that this threat has been eliminated.One down and a few more million to go .Muslims have always been at war with us, our government has just refused to admit it. Government has a problem because “muslim terrorists” come in many forms and many nationalities. It is not a “country” but it is an ideology that we are fighting! Nationality doesn’t matter.

      With that said, my true concerned is about this regime of criminals in our country.. I am concerned that they will use their killing drones on “Real Americans” in this country,and their American children. That is of much more concern to me than killing a knownYemen terrorist who is plotting our deaths and the deaths of our military boys and girls.

      • Vicki

        Texas Ride says:
        “I could really care less about Al Awlaki’s death. I don’t see any difference in killing him than killing Bin Ladin. We knew what he was and what he was doing.”

        And we know this how? Did I miss a jury deliberation?

      • Texas Ride

        Vicki,

        Did Bin Ladin have a Jury? Same difference to me. Both were terrorists and plotting to kill Americans.

        Awlaki was an “anchor baby” dropped by an illegal on our soil, then whisked back to Yemen and raised to be a Yemeni terrorist. This piece of camel dung was “Not” an American..

        Awlaki got what he deserved and we didn’t need to spend years in court and Millions of tax dollars for his defense. We didn’t need to prove what was already widely known.

        The argument for Awlaki’s “rights” as a citizen is being made because of “fear.” There is a lot of fear that this regime will use thesekiller drones against Americans…and, they will.The laws are already in place to kill Americans in this country by most any means the government wants to use.
        So, lets deal with that problem instead.

      • sam1966

        Hey Texas, good posting. I didn’t care much about him either, but his 16 year old kid, that’s another story. Sure he may have known people that were terrorists, but he wouldn’t be old enough to do anything yet. Yet is the key word. Now I don’t believe in wasting people, causing collateral damage, or stiking people with drones (It may happen here.). If we have to do these things, send in the military. Drones are so cowardly. Of course, I have 20 years in the infantry. Here is something from Washington State about your home being inspected for weapons.

        http://www.weaselzippers.us/2013/02/17/seattle-senate-bill-includes-home-inspection-as-part-of-gun-control-measure/

        FOR GOD AND COUNTRY! 하나님하고 나라를 위해서!

        You need both love of country and faith in God to be a patriot.

        “Providence has given to our people the choice of their rulers, and it is the duty, as well as the privilege and interest of our Christian nation to select and prefer Christians for their rulers.”

        John Jay
        October 12, 1816

      • Vicki

        Texas Ride says:
        “Did Bin Ladin have a Jury?”

        Meaning a Jury trial. Ask obama. Or President Bush. Or who ever really killed him. (Presumes his existence and that he is really dead,)

  • Carroll

    If he takes a fatal head shot and remains alive THEN we’ll know who he really is. If he’s gotten this many Americans so dumbed down, I am starting to wonder……….to many things going on which makes you wonder exactly what IS he really up to. Civil disobedience translating into civil war constructed, instigated by him and his followers.?? Drones over the cities? Hmmmm……..

  • Right Brain Thinker

    Such concern for Al A on the part of Bob L and others because he was an American citizen is a bit hypocritical. They are just using Al A as a straw man in their never-ending assault on government od any kiind. Al A deserved to die, and a lot more slowly and painfully than the way he did. IMO.

    I lost a college buddy-fraternity brother in 9/11. He was near the top of one of the towers and had no chance of escape. His wife was a high school friend of my wife and we introduced them to each other over 50 years ago. We see his wife once a year and would see her more often if she didn’t live half a country away. I can remember her telling us that she had told the government to stop sending more body pieces as they found them and just inter them in the mass grave—-after receiving the biggest portion of remains and several smaller bits, she decided enough was enough.

    We are in a rather crazy “war” against “terrorism” here, one that was begun way back when Reagan failed in Beirut, and it was made worse by Bush’s failures in Iraq and Afghanistan. It appears that we are going to be fighting it for a while, and the use of drones appears to be a better way than sending young grunts in harm’s way. If any American wants to go against the country as Al A did, he should NOT expect to have the protections afforded to “real” Americans, and those who argue that he should are talking out of both sides of their mouths.

    • Gea

      9/11/2001 and 9/11/2012 were committed by the Saudi Arabian Muslims for Allahu Akbar as are 95% of all other terrorist actions in the world. The Saudi terrorists on 9/11/2001 did not shout Hail Mary, Our Father, Shema Israel or om when plunging those planes into WTO, but Allahu Akbar. Islamic teachings of superiority of Muslims, similar to Nazi claims of Aryan superiority to all others, is the root cause of the current days terrorism in the world. Unlike all other major religions, Islam is incompatible with the US Constitution and the Universal Declaration of Human Rights and thus should be treated as a Nazi party after WWII and not extolled by an US President, who does not know history of US.

      Unless Islam ITSELF reforms and Obama stops extolling Qur’an and Islam while dissing Bible, there will be more and more young Muslim men who will chose “martyrdom” in order to get into a Muslim Paradise with 72 virgins. Muslims in Europe and Australia are staging a stealth jihad using liberal immigration policies there, as they will in USA, once Obama has his way with immigration and gives more dole to the moochers of US.

      Barack Hussein Obama had been living up to his middle name ever since getting into power, and sending US taxpayers money and F-16 to his Muslim Brothers in Egypt for their war on women and new won Israel.

      Obama is the most skillful liar we ever had in the White house. Although ALL politicians lie to come and stay in power, Obama beats them all in his skillful application of the Islamic principle of lying and obfuscation and double talk called Taqiyya in Qur’an and Hadith. Read the article about Taqiyya to understand Obama’s skills in Double-talk department: http://www.islam-watch.org/Warner/Taqiyya-Islamic-Principle-Lying-for-Allah.htm

      • Charlie

        Gea,,,
        Your read indicates you do NOT know who God’s Chosen People are… See 1 Chronicles 16:13 for that info,,,bear in mind , Jacob Israel is one Man,,,his lineage are God’s Chosen People…
        Are you jealous of The Superiority of The German People in general??? Most are from the lineage of Jacob Israel… Also The Bible says the people in Iran today could be from the lineage of Abraham… See that at Genesis 25:6…………
        Are you a heathen or just writing like one???………. Meanwhile…………………………
        Praise King Jesus for Salvation and Healing… Acts 2:38 is salvation…

        Charlie Freedom

    • TML

      RBT says, “Such concern for Al A on the part of Bob L and others because he was an American citizen is a bit hypocritical. They are just using Al A as a straw man in their never-ending assault on government od any kiind. Al A deserved to die, and a lot more slowly and painfully than the way he did. IMO.”

      Not so much concern for al-Awlaki, as much as it is about the principles of the rule of law. This isn’t hypocritical, not a strawman, unless you believe that it is ok for the government to kill anyone, much less a citizen of the United States, without charge or trial. Non sequitur, the logic does not follow, that he deserved to die without such. To say so, is to condemn, or allow the government to condemn, any person to death for nothing more than anecdotal evidence based on subjective judgment. Sorry for your lose, but that doesn’t justify disregarding the rule of law.

      RBT says, “We are in a rather crazy “war” against “terrorism” here, one that was begun way back when Reagan failed in Beirut, and it was made worse by Bush’s failures in Iraq and Afghanistan. It appears that we are going to be fighting it for a while…”

      Indeed, fighting a war against a ‘tactic’ is never endingly dubious, and ignorantly continued by one administration to the next ever since.

      RBT says, “If any American wants to go against the country as Al A did, he should NOT expect to have the protections afforded to “real” Americans, and those who argue that he should are talking out of both sides of their mouths.”

      No, those who argue that he should believe in the rule of law and point to Article 3 Section 3 – “Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort. No Person shall be convicted of Treason unless on the Testimony of two Witnesses to the same overt Act, or on Confession in open Court. The Congress shall have Power to declare the Punishment of Treason, but no Attainder of Treason shall work Corruption of Blood, or Forfeiture except during the Life of the Person attainted.”

      Indeed, the one speaking from both sides of their mouths are those who disregard the Constitution to justify their subjective whims.

      • Charlie

        Is Congress going to rule against itself??? Most are in “Treason” right now!!! OR? is it time for Posse Jury to call in Biblical Law ???

      • Right Brain Thinker

        I don’t disagree much with what TML has said here. He speaks of the ideal, and we should always strive for that. I WILL repeat what I said regarding this article. “Such concern for Al A on the part of Bob L and others because he was an American citizen is a bit hypocritical. They are just using Al A as a straw man in their never-ending assault on government of any kind. Al A deserved to die, and a lot more slowly and painfully than the way he did. IMO.” I don’t attribute TML’s high ideals to the forces that are driving the dialogue in this country right now—those voices have a different agenda.

        TML hits it well with, “Indeed, fighting a war against a ‘tactic’ is never endingly dubious, and ignorantly continued by one administration to the next ever since”.

        RBT says, “If any American wants to go against the country as Al A did, he should NOT expect to have the protections afforded to “real” Americans, and those who argue that he should are talking out of both sides of their mouths.”

        No, those who argue that he should believe in the rule of law and point to Article 3 Section 3 – “Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort. No Person shall be convicted of Treason unless on the Testimony of two Witnesses to the same overt Act, or on Confession in open Court. The Congress shall have Power to declare the Punishment of Treason, but no Attainder of Treason shall work Corruption of Blood, or Forfeiture except during the Life of the Person attainted.”

        Uh-huh. True words, except that I believe those screaming them so loudly are only doing so because it allows them to attack O’Bama. Why did we not hear the same cries against Bush from the right?

        For one who is accused of being a “liberal-progressive” (by many who don’t even know what those words mean), I hold a rather Neanderthalish USMC view of much of this—-Kill them all, and let God sort them out! God didn’t write our constitution, but he DID speak to us in the old testament (or so some believe).

      • Average Joe

        RBT,

        “Uh-huh. True words, except that I believe those screaming them so loudly are only doing so because it allows them to attack O’Bama. ”

        Uh no…it’s about attacking anyone who doesn’t follow th rule of law…which is pretty much EVERYONE IN GOVERNMENT…at any level. I realize that you have a high opinion of your savior,Obama; However, many of us don’t have that same opinion. Many of us don’t have high opinions of most of the DC crowd….so please…don’t feel singled out with YOUR glorious leader….they are all criminals.

        “Why did we not hear the same cries against Bush from the right? ”

        Who is we? As for you…you weren’t paying attention…apparently…
        Most of us here didn’t like Bush’s policies anymore than we did Clinton..Bush Sr…..and right on down the line…all the way back to Lincoln the criminal….So, if you haven’t heard us complain about them…maybe you should pay closer attention to what we say…rather than your own hyperbole

        AJ

      • Right Brain Thinker

        Average Joe parrots exactly what his masters have planted in his head.

        AJ says, “…it’s about attacking anyone who doesn’t follow the rule of law…which is pretty much EVERYONE IN GOVERNMENT…at any level”. Yep, as I said, anything to attack O’Bama, and AJ throws EVERYONE else in there as well, even those in the backward red states and the Repugs and Libertarians. Is NO ONE doing anything right , AJ? Of course his rantings about everyone are just the expression of the “government is bad” horsepucky that his masters have planted in his head. Does not AJ realize that his masters want to destroy ALL government so that they can have a free hand?

        AJ is still hung up on wielding his big dumb rhetoric paintbrush when he talks about “a high opinion of your savior, O’Bama” and “Many of us don’t have high opinions of most of the DC crowd”. Of course I “don’t feel singled out with my glorious leader”, AJ, because he’s not “mine”, he’s the president of the United States and he’s everyone’s “leader”, like it or not. I only voted for him because he was a better choice than the alternative (who were those two R & R guys again?) and am still waiting for O’Bama to fully justify my faith in him and show us that he will move the country “forward”.

        “Why did we not hear the same cries against Bush from the right?”

        “Who is we? Most of us here didn’t like Bush’s policies anymore than we did Clinton..Bush Sr…..and right on down the line…all the way back to Lincoln the criminal…”
        AJ clears up some confusion for me with that comment. Since I was unaware of the level of “confusion” on PLD until I became a regular visitor only a few months ago, I had no idea that “most of us” were deluded enough to have mindlessly hated government all the way back to Lincoln—-that’s like 150 years! Wow..

      • sam1966

        Well RBT, God does speak to us through the Bible. That is true, but are you sure he had nothing to do with our Constitution?

        “The Constitution, a system which without the finger of God, never could have been suggested.”

        Alexander Hamilton

        “The real wonder is that so many difficulties should have been surmounted…It is impossible for the man of pious reflection not to perceive in it a finger of that Almighty Hand which has been so frequently and signally extended to our relief.”

        James Madison

        I think our Christian founding fathers would disagree with you on this one. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY! 하나님하고 나라를 위해서!

        You need both love of country and faith in God to be a patriot. This leaves RBT out.

        “Every member of the State ought diligently to read and to study the constitution of this country. By knowing their rights, they will sooner perceive when they are violated and be the better prepared to defend and assert them.”

        John Jay

        • Bob666

          Yo samuriadingdong1966,
          “You need both love of country and faith in God to be a patriot. This leaves RBT out.”

          Remember, Your therapist told you that you don’t get to make those decisions.

      • Average Joe

        RBT,

        Paid by the word?…Sorry, not buying into the your usual…..B.S. You are entitled to your opinions…which are pretty much all that you’ve offered up. Those and $5 will get you a cup of coffee in some places…this isn’t one of those places….

        SI VIS PACEM PARA BELLUM.

        AJ

      • TML

        RBT says, “I don’t attribute TML’s high ideals to the forces that are driving the dialogue in this country right now—those voices have a different agenda.”

        True, I cannot speak for anyone but myself when it comes to personal ideas. However, the ultimate point – as quoted in Article 3 Section 3 – is not just an ideal; it is the law of the land… a law that is specifically meant to restrain government from holding policies like we see regarding the killing of American citizens without charge or trial.

        RBT says, “Uh-huh. True words, except that I believe those screaming them so loudly are only doing so because it allows them to attack O’Bama. Why did we not hear the same cries against Bush from the right?”

        Well, again, I can’t speak for others but I heard plenty of railing against Bush during his tenure, and I argued just as greatly against his actions that were not pursuant to the Constitution. I’m not sure who you are talking about since we see even the psychopath Lindsey Graham (you might call him a right wing Repugnant) commends Obama’s policy. I think believing that those screaming Article 3 so loudly are only doing so because it allows them to attack Obama, puts the cart before the horse; Obama’s policy of killing American citizen without charge or trial violates the Constitution explicitly, should we say nothing against it lest you think we are only bringing it up to attack Obama without reason?

      • Right Brain Thinker

        sam1966 says, “God does speak to us through the Bible. That is true” That statement is not a matter of “truth”, but one of “belief”. I often ask myself why there have to be ~600 versions of the Bible in order for God to speak to us, and why some versions are anathema to those who use other versions. Not to mention all those humans on the planet who do not believe in or use the Bible—–are they not God’s children too? also often ask why God is so selfish and parsimonious in speaking to us. Why has he allowed this old document called the Bible, which was written long ago by a number of people (and messed with since by many others) to be our only source of his “word”. Isn’t he all powerful? Didn’t Al Gore invent the internet in His name?. Why can’t God just send me a message on my computer screen?.

        And then asks, “Are you sure he had nothing to do with our Constitution?” According to the quotes you provided Alexander Hamilton and James Madison apparently did, and John Jay may not have, because he was stating a belief that is rather self-evident and therefore rises to the level of of fact (although God might approve of what he said even though he wasn’t mentioned)

        “I think our Christian founding fathers would disagree with you on this one. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY! 하나님하고 나라를 위해서!” More “founding fathers, God and Country, bowl of wonton soup” horsepucky. And is rather presumptuous, pretentious, condescending, and even haughty of you to keep giving us the “bowl of wonton soup” reference—–you can’t say whatever it means in plain English? Or are y9ou trying to convince those of us on PLD that you are some sort of “mystic”?

        “You need both love of country and faith in God to be a patriot. This leaves RBT out”
        All I can say to that, Sam, is that you are sounding more and more as if you are becoming a legend in you r own mind. I will remind you of what devil#bob said.
        “Remember, Your therapist told you that you don’t get to make those decisions”.

        Average Joe chips in with his usual below average clarity and “wisdom”.

        “Paid by the word?…” Are you talking to me, AJ? Are you saying I use a lot of words. As I’ve said before, I use enough to expose truth (or lack thereof). It’s interesting that those who respond to me often use very few words in comparison, because they have no real arguments to make (like you). And those words are often trite, meaningless, and “snarky”, like this:

        “Sorry, not buying into the your usual…..B.S. You are entitled to your opinions…which are pretty much all that you’ve offered up. Those and $5 will get you a cup of coffee in some places…this isn’t one of those places….” WOW—that’ll shut me up, for sure!

        And “SI VIS PACEM PARA BELLUM”—-that is SO impressive, AJ—-using a Latin phrase. I can’t respond to that because you haven’t made it clear which of the several meanings of that phrase you intended. So below average.

        TML also chips in and continues to argue a point on which I don’t really disagree with him. He has his opinion, I have stated mine—-circumstances in “war” sometimes trump the “rule of law” that he so rigidly interprets. Both our opinions are valid.

        And “….but I heard plenty of railing against Bush during his tenure”? Not from the “right”, you didn’t—–not if you were living in the same country I was—-that’s who I’m talking about.

        And now Lindsey Graham is a psychopath? (I do call him a conservative Repugnant and worse and get violent urges every time I see his face and hear him speak). You say that because he has commended Obama’s policy? I’ll bet you thought he was a great guy a year ago. Did you?

        I hear you on “puts the cart before the horse; Obama’s policy of killing American citizen without charge or trial violates the Constitution explicitly” You ask, “Should we say nothing against it lest you think we are only bringing it up to attack Obama without reason?” Of course not, just don’t be so naive as to think that all the screamers are as pure of heart and really concerned about the Constitution as you are. Many of them are the same old racist sore loser white men who are just looking for ANY.excuse. And the plutocracy and corporate oligarchy don’t give a rodent’s rear end for any part of the Constitution except that which allows them to put themselves ahead of the 99%.

      • Average Joe

        “If you wish for peace, prepare for war” Pretty simple for most of us…tis a shame that you aren’t intelligent enough to figure it out.

        AJ

      • Right Brain Thinker

        Another snarky non-comment from AJ It’s a shame that he isn’t intelligent enough to do more than that.

        RBT

  • http://wildeyguns.com The Christian American

    Personally, I question the “rule of Law” saying. Like freedom, the rule of law, does not have a moral content to it. Freedom can be either moral or immoral and the rule of law can be who’s writing the “law” becomes the law. For arguments sake, I will define law as having it’s origin with our Creator. Anything else I’d call edicts or decrees from men imposing their will on other men. Like heaven and hell, good or bad, moral or immoral, most men should know where line of distinction is.

    That said, virtually nothing coming from the district of criminals is true law. It’s decrees and edicts eminating from people that want to impose their will on other people. In the writing of the Declaration of Independence, the authors wrestled with that so the world would not them as outlaws. Can we pick judges for their political or religious persuasion?. That’s all we are doing now-a-days. America states: In God we trust. That means that we trust God for our laws, not our political leaders. Americans must say NO to these decrees and edicts coming out of DC. The collonist taking a stand on Bunker hill did when they told the slimey red coats “No King but Jesus” and shot them where they stood. This was a defensive action and their’s nothing in God’s laws that says a man cannot defend himself.

    Actually, since the war of 1812 America has not been engaged in a defensive war, only offensive. Sure we use to go through the act of declaring war but they were offensive on America’s part. Even conservatives are picking and choosing which parts of our Constitution they want to follow Their just as much outlaws as they accuse the liberals to be. Two groups, each trying to make their opinion the law. I think they call that “Divide and conquer. We can’t interpret law the way that Clinton interpreted “is”. Either we recognize, the law, God’s law, or we don’t, and right now none of us are following the law. To get back on track we must repent for our actions to our Creator andonce again adopt His laws as our laws.

    • Charlie

      T C A,,,
      Very well said,,,BUT,,,have you complied with your own statement by using the “Whole” Law as called out by King Jesus Christ at John 3:5 + John 3:16+ John 3:22 = Salvation,,,BUT,,,the equation gets easier with just one verse ,,, Acts 2:38 = Salvation… Make the complex simple whenever possible… That’s what King Jesus did with The 10 Commandments at Matthew 22:40 did King Jesus know The Law? He was The Perfect Lawyer at John 8:4–11……………………..
      The Major Problem in America IS,,,God’s Laws have been rejected for ”Man’s “laws ,such as The Constitution ,,,any,,,Laws/laws should be applied as King Jesus applies His Laws … With all lawfulness , Love , Mercy, and forgiveness ………. How many on this site are lawful to cast the first stone ???……….. Be sure you know the difference between “”Law”” and “”Game Rules””, for example the speed limits are “Game Rules”… But often the state god will rob you ,even when you hurt or endangered NO one, or property by going 15 or 20 over the speed limits… So this thing called “””Law””” gets a little trickey ,,,especially ,,,IF,,, you are ignorant of God’s Real Law and ”’Legalize Loonacy”””of Man’s ………. Meanwhile………………………….
      Praise King Jesus for Salvation and Healing… Acts 2:38 is salvation…

      Charlie Freedom

      c

    • Vicki

      The Christian American says:
      “Personally, I question the “rule of Law” saying.”

      Like many sayings it is short and does leave out context that is supposed to be provided by the inherent knowledge of the observer. In our case the “rule of law” means the Supreme Law of THIS land. I.E. The Constitution. The Constitution is a specific set of LIMITS on what powers we can delegate to Government. The clear intent of the founders is to limit the abuse of government being able to “make” laws.

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N4r0VUybeXY

      And that is why it is only fit for the governance of a moral and religious people.

      I would argue that moral is enough but where from do morals come?

      First principle:
      Your Creator gave you 2 gifts. Life and Free Will.
      How you honor those gifts and how you honor them in others
      is how you shall be judged.

      • Charlie

        Vicki,,,
        Give us some Scripture or let us know where We can buy a copy of your Bible…Ha haha ha…..
        Meanwhile… Praise King Jesus for Salvation and Healing… Acts 2:38 is salvation…

        Charlie Freedom

      • Karolyn

        Morals – knowing right from wrong – are inherent. Man is corrupted by society.

      • Vicki

        Karolyn says:
        “Morals – knowing right from wrong – are inherent.”

        And you know this how?

      • Vicki

        Charlie says:
        “Vicki,,,
        Give us some Scripture or let us know where We can buy a copy of your Bible…Ha haha ha…..”

        King James. Available online and at many book stores.

      • Charlie

        Vicki,,,
        That’s why I asked for Scripture , because what you said IS NOT in the KJV… King Jesus gave Me far more than 2 blessings ,,,but,,, what you wrote may not be what you thought you wrote…
        Meanwhile… Praise King Jesus for Salvation and Healing… Acts 2:38 is salvation…

  • Susan

    Secret death squads? Sounds a lot like Nazi Germany to me.

    • http://wildeyguns.com The Christian American

      Your living in a Nazi Germany Susan. The difference is the people have guns.

  • http://omanuel.wordpress.com omanuel

    I agree with you, Bob, and with many others who commented below. I have no sympathy with the causes of those killed, but I have no way of knowing if the persons killed actually believed in the causes officially attributed to them by our government.

    Public trials and our Constitution are designed to prevent that from happening.

    What a sad, sad state of affairs for society and constitutional government.

    With deep regrets,
    Oliver K. Manuel
    Former NASA Principal
    Investigator for Apollo

    • Flashy

      1. We are undoubtedly in possession of information which may lead to outing sources if the information is released. Not a good thing to snuff a source…kinda discourages other sources if you know what i mean. And is it wise to not do anything and let the plotting be finalized..and hope we can thwart the attack?

      2. Taking into account #1 above, if we do risk revealing intelligent sources, should there at least be a public notice and demand they turn themselves in to the nearest embassy and be taken here for a civil prosecution where the evidence is presented and they have a fair trial?

      3. Or do we sit back and hope we thwart an attack then go after the plotters with about as much evidence as we now have, label them fugitives…and use public outrage as justification to snuff ‘em?

      • TML

        Flashy says, “1. We are undoubtedly in possession of information which may lead to outing sources if the information is released. Not a good thing to snuff a source…kinda discourages other sources if you know what i mean.”

        Then let the courts silence that information from the media under those grounds rather than leaving it to conjecture that such was the case.

        Flashy says, “And is it wise to not do anything and let the plotting be finalized..and hope we can thwart the attack?”

        Preemptive action is never acceptable in a society governed by the rule of law.

        Flashy says, “…should there at least be a public notice and demand they turn themselves in to the nearest embassy and be taken here for a civil prosecution where the evidence is presented and they have a fair trial?”

        Whether capture or turning himself in; yes. If the reports that he was twice within the means of FBI to arrest him at the Pentagon and again at JFK airport then this is (was) a real possibility.

        Flashy says, “3. Or do we sit back and hope we thwart an attack then go after the plotters with about as much evidence as we now have, label them fugitives…and use public outrage as justification to snuff ‘em?”

        Which is to assume that an attack is being planned in the first place. As most who try to rationalize such action; you put the cart before the horse.

      • Flashy

        “Then let the courts silence that information from the media under those grounds rather than leaving it to conjecture that such was the case.”

        TML … I have split opinions myself. Playing sports, defense doesn’t prevent touchdowns all the time. Yet, I do believe the Preamble to the Declaration of Independence which declares Rights inherent to all Man, not just Americans. When anyone, anywhere, starts sucking air in this world, they have Rights inherent to existence.

        On the other hand, if someone is plotting to take us out, if it wise to let them make the attempt and trust our defenses are adequate?

        It’s a difficult weighing of the dangers. I really don’t know what side i would take if i had to make that choice. There is the American Way of high regard for the Rights inherent…versus the obligation to defend and protect the United States.

        If push did come to shove and i had to take a stance, I’d err on the side of giving a chance to defend against charges. Publish a notice, state the charges (not the evidence), give them notice that they have a choice..turn themselves in and defend themselves at a trial before an independent jury …with the media aware of the trial, charges, present at hearings and trial etc… or, if the opt not to turn themselves in and face the charges…all deals are off the table and they are hunted as dangerous fugitives.

        If the government cannot state the charges? then I would say they cannot hunt. That would be the trigger point.

      • TML

        Flashy, I can definitely understand and appreciate the difficulty in separating subjective fear with objective reason. And I agree with hunting for him at the time charges are filed, and doesn’t turn himself in, but only as far as it is within the abilities to apprehend the accused. I’m sure there are unavoidable circumstances when someone will “not be taken alive” and in such cases the unfortunate inevitability of their death may become a reality (such as Dorner), and would say, so be it. Yet, the only rightful authority of government extends only to ACTIONS. Simply pointing the finger and saying someone is plotting against the United States and to then deliberately hunting down and killing him, totally disregards the rule of law, objective reason, and surrenders to subjective fear, while rendering the authority of government a mere tyranny.

      • Flashy

        TML….I am bothered with what you state inasmich bin Laden would still be sucking air nand walking around if we had not taken action to snuff him whenever and wherever we found him. Same witht he #2 al Qaeda leader, and the #3 al Qaeda leader. Same with a dozen other mad men.

        publicizing the charges and offering a fair and public trial…or “you’re gonna get hurt”. That is not fear…that’s a statement saying we’re going to nail you before you have a free shot as us. Fear is passing laws stating Sharia Law will not be used in American courts (never has, never will…but fear drives lunatics to weird things). Fear is ranting against reasonable background checks on gun sales because of some warped reading of the 2nd and saying it’s a grab for guns. Fear is stating that one has a “Right” to pack a dangerous weapon anywhere they want to without regard to others Right to be safe. Fear is spreading lies and rumors about FEMA camps, Death Clauses on Health Care laws, etc etc

      • sam1966

        FEMA, death panels in Obama bin Laden Care, etc., are not fears, they are truths. You said you believe in our rights as are written in the Declaration of Independence? That is good, but 1. the no preamble in the Declaration of Independence. 2. You also forgot to mentio our rights as being, “…endowed (BLESSED) by their Creator (GOD)…” Just dig deeper that what the MSM or some professor is telling you and you’ll be amazed at what you may learn. Here is something showing how high the cost to the average American Obama bin Laden Care will be.

        http://www.politichicks.tv/column/is-20000-per-year-affirdable-healthcare/

        FOR GOD AND COUNTRY! 하나님하고 나라를 위해서!

        You need both love of country and faith in God to be a patriot. This leaves you out.

        “The internal effects of a mutable policy poisons the blessings of liberty itself.”

        James Madison

      • TML

        Flashy says, “….I am bothered with what you state inasmich bin Laden would still be sucking air nand walking around if we had not taken action to snuff him whenever and wherever we found him. Same witht he #2 al Qaeda leader, and the #3 al Qaeda leader. Same with a dozen other mad men. “

        There is a lot of speculation regarding Bin Laden, and while he did not have any charges or trial, he was also not an American citizen (at least). This could be chalked up as a part of war in that case, had we ever declared it (which we didn’t), and yet even after his death, the so-called war on terror rages on with a never ending string of boogey men, all justified by the same pseudo-reasoning for taking them out – the government says they are the enemy and plotting against the United States, shows us no evidence of it, and they take them out anywhere on the globe without regard for borders, nor even the innocent lives lost in their wake. And we are just supposed to accept it unquestioned? This is not the right way. This is not the rule of law. This is rule by the whims of fear.

        Flashy says, “publicizing the charges and offering a fair and public trial…or “you’re gonna get hurt”. That is not fear…that’s a statement saying we’re going to nail you before you have a free shot as us.”

        It is a fear of another incident like 9/11. It is a fear of another incident like Oklahoma. It is killing someone for a crime they allegedly MIGHT commit. And while this happens, those who support this bastardization of reason and justice, we continually lose more and more liberties – as it was prophesized – under the guise of fighting a foreign enemy… an enemy that conveniently allows different opponents to be placed under one category through calling for war on a ‘tactic’.

        Flashy says, “Fear is passing laws stating Sharia Law will not be used in American courts (never has, never will…but fear drives lunatics to weird things). Fear is ranting against reasonable background checks on gun sales because of some warped reading of the 2nd and saying it’s a grab for guns. Fear is stating that one has a “Right” to pack a dangerous weapon anywhere they want to without regard to others Right to be safe. Fear is spreading lies and rumors about FEMA camps, Death Clauses on Health Care laws, etc etc”

        Perhaps, but that doesn’t exclude your position on the current issue from being based on fear itself.

  • Right Brain Thinker

    It’s interesting that Bob would rely on a rather liberal site such as Alternet for a source. This may be the first and last time that PLD has ever done so. Of course, it’s understandable that propagandists use whatever suits their purposes even if it’s from a site whose writings they would likely reject 99.9% of the time.

    We again make rather large leaps from. “In other words, Graham believes that a secret and unaccountable group of people meeting behind closed doors should have the power to determine whether Americans should live or die” to “And a person can be targeted simply for writing or speaking words that make the 1 percent uncomfortable” to .”Such a mindset was apparently what fueled the wild shootouts in Los Angeles last week as officers sought rogue former police officer Chris Dorner”.

    “It’s obvious by their responses that the Los Angeles Police Department had a standing shoot-to-kill order on Dorner. And when he was finally cornered in a cabin near Big Bear Lake, Calif., law enforcement officers intentionally burned the building down around him, apparently without giving him an opportunity to surrender”.

    And this is a problem why? Donner had declared war on the police, had killed a policeman’s DAUGHTER, and killed and wounded several who were not even involved in the alleged “dirty doings” against him that brought the whole thing on. One was a GAME WARDEN. It may not have been “nice” or even “right”, but the vast majority of Americans who do not inhabit the extreme left or the whacky, talk-out-of-both-sides-of-your-mouth right would probably say “Too bad it went that way, but it’s good that it’s over and no one else got hurt”. What does the Bible say here? Was this a justifiable eye-for-an-eye thing?

    Bob finishes with “Like Obama, the LAPD became judge, jury and executioner. When individuals or groups of individuals hold the power of life over death, the rule of law no longer applies. Lack of the rule of law indicates a loss of civilization and a descent into anarchy. America is a lawless society from the head down”.

    Does he appreciate the irony of that rhetoric? How about all the talk on PLD of secession, vigilantism, going out into the streets with guns, taking back the country, death to the libs-progs-commies-socialists-marxists, removing O’Bama from office, starving the poor children, denying health care to the sick, shrinking government and drowning it, ad nauseum, that is perhaps the true “lawlessness” and “anarchy” that this country faces?

    • TML

      RBT says, “And this is a problem why? Donner had declared war on the police, had killed a policeman’s DAUGHTER, and killed and wounded several who were not even involved in the alleged “dirty doings” against him that brought the whole thing on. One was a GAME WARDEN. It may not have been “nice” or even “right”, but the vast majority of Americans who do not inhabit the extreme left or the whacky, talk-out-of-both-sides-of-your-mouth right would probably say “Too bad it went that way, but it’s good that it’s over and no one else got hurt”. What does the Bible say here? Was this a justifiable eye-for-an-eye thing?”

      It’s a problem for exactly the reasons pointed out; they took it upon themselves to act as “judge, jury and executioner”. I’m sure no one feels sorry for Dorner, but those kinds of actions by police, based only on a media conviction and hearsay – without being convicted in a court of law for the crimes he was accused – is not acceptable at any time under any conditions. Police officers are held to a higher standard than issuing their own form of vigilante justice.

      While I am not religious, I’ll answer your last question saying what you referred to was in the Old Testament. It later states in the New Testament;

      Matthew 5:38-39
      “You have heard that it was said, ‘Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.’
      But I tell you, Do not resist an evil person. If someone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also.”

      No it was not justifiable. An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind.

      • http://myfamilyview.com Clyde

        The fact that the ruling factions in this county haven’t hearkened to the Bible or even the Constitution tells you how lawless this country has become. Most Americans don’t even know what a “Bill of Attainder” is, and never consider that ex post facto laws are intended to damage the accused.

      • Right Brain Thinker

        TML says, “….they took it upon themselves to act as “judge, jury and executioner”? They had to deal with a situation that they did NOT create because it was handed to them by Dorner and his refusal to surrender—-Dorner himself is responsible for what they did—-he steered the situation to the climax—–and the blame is his.

        Is not what we see in this article being said against Dorners’s “vigilante executioners” also just “based only on a media conviction and hearsay – without being convicted in a court of law for the crimes of which they are accused”. That is “not acceptable at any time under any conditions”, except, of course, when it suits your purposes and that of the other propagandists. As I said, hypocrisy.

        And, “No it was not justifiable. An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind”? Nice thought, but sometimes “an eye for an eye” is perfectly appropriate, or at least understandable as the best solution to a difficult situation.

      • http://google Helen

        Donner was not going to be taken alive and he took the cowards way out and died by his own hand. How many more innocent officers, who had nothing to do with his being fired, would he have murdered in cold blood? Why didn’t he go through proper channels to get reinstated? Donner is not a hero and it’s time people stop glorifying him for murdering those officers and leaving a letter telling who he was going to muder next. I guess because he murdered white police officers and innocent women, he’s a hero?

        • http://myfamilyview.com Clyde

          That’s typical of group think murderers, they spin their own self righteous “we hand no hand in this persons death” b.s. to each other while ignoring the fact that Dorner’s complaint about his “superior” officer was proven true. He was scapegoated, it’s just that simple. I suppose that the 200+ children that Obama’s drones killed “died by their own hand” as well. If the Constitution is just a GD piece of paper to the American people, it certainly wouldn’t rate that highly to the ruling factions that never supposedly have any hand in the demise of others.

      • TML

        RBT says, “Is not what we see in this article being said against Dorners’s “vigilante executioners” also just “based only on a media conviction and hearsay – without being convicted in a court of law for the crimes of which they are accused”. That is “not acceptable at any time under any conditions”, except, of course, when it suits your purposes and that of the other propagandists. As I said, hypocrisy.”

        If you mean the part about intentionally setting the place on fire, then I agree. I hold that they were trying to do their job by flushing him out with tear gas which led to the fire (giving the benefit of the doubt), but one cannot ignore that because of reports of them shooting up random vehicles on the street, along with some report of them setting it on fire intentionally out of vigilante emotion – not to mention Dorner’s alleged manifesto declaring extensive internal corruption of the LAPD – renders reasonable questions to the actions of the officers. That is why all involved standing in court would have been a much better scenario. As it is, we will probably never find out, and left to speculation on the entire case of both sides. Very unfortunate.

        RBT says, “And, “No it was not justifiable. An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind”? Nice thought, but sometimes “an eye for an eye” is perfectly appropriate, or at least understandable as the best solution to a difficult situation.”

        Only subjectively and in the movies; in real life, vigilante justice will land you in a court of your own.

      • TML

        Helen, you are misinterpreting what’s being argued. It’s not about glorifying or defending Dorner’s actions. It’s about now holding the LAPD responsible for theirs.

      • eddie47d

        TML: A couple of others brought up Waco and that the deaths made the government evil. Maybe, but that wasn’t a diliberate fire either. Once started there was little means to control it and thus the loss of lives. That was a 40 day siege so how long should a situation go on? Once Dorner went on a deliberate killing spree he became a perp just like any gangster shooting up a neighborhood. Thus endangering innocents.

      • http://wildeyguns.com The Christian American

        If you broke into my home while my family was there and you were armed as well as the perpetrator but they dropped their gun after killing someone, should you shoot him or hold him for the police for their day in court? Would your action in killing him be vengance or justice?

      • TML

        Eddie says, “That [Waco] was a 40 day siege so how long should a situation go on?”

        As long as it takes to render a peaceable end or outcome to the situation, especially in cases in which innocence may be in danger. Waco was an incident in which many innocent women and children were at risk. Surrendering to impatience was not acceptable. This case, with Dorner, is not necessarily a parallel situation since he was not confirmed to have ‘hostages’, however, the same rule applies.

        Eddie says, “Once Dorner went on a deliberate killing spree he became a perp just like any gangster shooting up a neighborhood. Thus endangering innocents.”

        Your statement presumes that he is guilty of going on a deliberate killing spree without being convicted. As much as you would like to think so, what you know is only allegations and media conviction.

        “A peace officer’s enforcement should not be done in grudging adherence to the legal rights of the accused, but in a sincere spirit of seeking that every accused person is given all of his rights as far as it is within the powers of the police.

        In the discharge of their enforcement of criminal statutes, the peace officer must scrupulously avoid any conduct which would make him a violator of the law. The solution of a crime, or the arrest of a lawbreaker, can never justify the peace officer committing a felony as an expedient for the enforcement of the law.

        Peace officers should do their utmost to foster a reverence for the law and readily offer individual sacrifice in protecting and preserving life.” – LAPD Policy Volume 1 section 115.01

      • TML

        TCA says, “If you broke into my home while my family was there and you were armed as well as the perpetrator but they dropped their gun after killing someone, should you shoot him or hold him for the police for their day in court? Would your action in killing him be vengance or justice?”

        You are confusing self-defense by a citizen with the lawful duties of an officer. A citizen is not held to the same standards that a law enforcement officer is held while on duty.

      • eddie47d

        TML ; I believe you wanted instant results out of Benghazi and several wanted heads on a platter.Yet now you are pleading for patience’s in other circumstances.

      • sam1966

        I see that Ed has also forgotten Ruby Ridge and raiding the home that had Elian Gonzales in Miami. No chances of Bill “I did not have sex with that woman” Clinton and Janet Reno having a peaceful end to those. How about the Americans slain in Yemen by Obama bin Laden, to count a 16 year old kid? I know people were taken out by drones under Bush, but the numbers have escalated under Obama bin Laden. Why does he want to kill so many people who are the same faith he is? Maybe he is a pretender in religion also? Here is something showing how an Illinois Representative stood up and said enough is enough.

        http://www.ploitichicks.tv/column/illinios-rep-screams-not-the-american-way/

        Its about time someone had the nads to stand up for what is right. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY! 하나님하고 나라를 위해서!

        You need both love of country and faith in God to be a patriot.

        “”We’ve staked our future on our ability to follow the Ten Commandments with all of our heart.”

        James Madison

      • TML

        Eddie, I’m not sure what you mean about that. I can’t recall ever wanting instant results or heads on a platter over the Benghazi incident that would relate to this discussion, in fact, I was against those who wanted to go to war with Libya over the incident, after just supposedly helping to liberate them… and I called for those responsible for such incompetence to answer for it, namely Hillary… just as I am doing for these incidents.

      • Charlie

        T M L,,,
        What you said is out of “Context”, regarding “eye for eye” ,etc as written in The Bible,,, read what King Jesus said at Matthew 5:17 ,18,19…Most all Biblical Laws are STILL applicable today….
        Meanwhile , to arrive at “Truth” apply Psalm 119:160…………………………….
        Praise King Jesus for Salvation and Healing… Acts 2:38 is salvation…

        Charlie Freedom

    • http://gravatar.com/bychoosing WTS/JAY

      RBT: Donner had declared war on the police, had killed a policeman’s DAUGHTER, and killed and wounded several who were not even involved in the alleged “dirty doings” against him that brought the whole thing on. One was a GAME WARDEN.

      How can you be certain that the information above is true? What if it’s a complete fabrication? You believe everything you hear?

      • JeffH

        …or what he’s told to say…

      • Right Brain Thinker

        WTS/JAY says:, “You believe everything you hear?”

        Of course not, JAY, particularly here on PLD where we see so many “hidden agendas”. That’s why I “believe” only 10 % or less of what you say, at least at face value, and hardly more than double that once I figure out your REAL message.

        JeffyH needs to be careful with such childish provocations as “…or what he’s told to say…” JeffyH has managed to be a much better boy than he was when he was trailing his alter ego DaveH and spouting mostly nonsense. Since DaveH’s “banishment” from PLD, JeffyH has even made some sense from time to time. However, that will not grant JeffyH immunity from the horns of the bull should he persist in such provocations. Be warned, Jeffy.

      • JeffH

        Half Wit…LMAO! Yep…only in your own “I’m really the village idiot” mind.

      • Right Brain Thinker

        Jeffy? Are you SURE you’re not really DaveH sneaking his way back onto PLD? You sure sound like him with this bit of mindlessness.

      • JeffH

        C’mon Half Wit, the boogeyman got your tongue? You think you’re so smart, you tell me.

        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GzAbP-gTtBg

      • Right Brain Thinker

        JeffyH returns with a comment that is 16 mindless words long as a followup to his previous comment of 14 mindless words. And they both sound just like DaveH. Hmmmmmm?

        And Jeffy posts a link to a youtube clip of The Boogeyman Song. Two minutes of a heavy 3-note beat with no decipherable lyrics. On top of a picture (unchanging throughout) of some freak wearing a boogeyman costume. Is that the best you can do, Jeffy? Boring, unimaginative, and trite? Yep, you are sure sounding more like DaveH with every post.

        I will continue to point that out each time you sink to that level, boring as it will be. Perhaps you’d like to “up your game” and attack me with some real thoughts and some bigger words? More fun that way. (You do know what “real thoughts” and “big words” are, don’t you?)

        • Bob666

          Yo RBT,

          when exactly did you-tube become the intellectual repository for truth?

      • Right Brain Thinker

        Bob666 asks “when exactly did you-tube become the intellectual repository for truth?” Never, that I’m aware of. You may occasionally find some small truths there, but a “repository” thereof? Maybe in JeffyH’s mind?

        • Bob666

          Yo RBT,
          I would concure, You-Tube is the souce they seem to cite the most. Nice exchage with Livingston today, he always did like you more.

      • JeffH

        BOO!

    • http://www.boblivingstonletter.com/ Bob Livingston

      Dear Right Brain Thinker,

      You write: “It’s interesting that Bob would rely on a rather liberal site such as Alternet for a source. This may be the first and last time that PLD has ever done so.” It is not. But accuracy has not been your strong suit.

      You write: “Donner had declared war on the police, had killed a policeman’s DAUGHTER, and killed and wounded several who were not even involved in the alleged “dirty doings” against him that brought the whole thing on. One was a GAME WARDEN.” How are you so certain of this?

      You write: “How about all the talk on PLD of secession, vigilantism, going out into the streets with guns, taking back the country, death to the libs-progs-commies-socialists-marxists, removing O’Bama from office, starving the poor children, denying health care to the sick, shrinking government and drowning it, ad nauseum, that is perhaps the true “lawlessness” and “anarchy” that this country faces?” Straw man, ad hominems and other logical fallacies.

      Best wishes,
      Bob

      • Right Brain Thinker

        Thank you for replying to my comment, Bob I will address the few original words in your reply. You say re PLD use of Alternet? that “It is not (the first time)? Wonderful news! Please tell me where I should go in the PLD archives to see evidence of that.and I will (may) take that back.

        You write: “Donner had declared war on the police, had killed a policeman’s DAUGHTER, and killed and wounded several who were not even involved in the alleged “dirty doings” against him that brought the whole thing on. One was a GAME WARDEN.” “How are you so certain of this?”
        How am I certain of WHAT, Bob? I read Dorner’s lengthy manifesto, and I am sorry that we will now likely never know the truth of his claims of having been “done dirty”—some of what he said was not all that crazy sounding. Was I mistaken in interpreting his words about what he planned to do as a “war”? With all the coverage the event got, are you saying that he did NOT “kill and wound several” , as we were told? Is the media now faking EVERYTHING that occurs? Was the footage of the representative of the CA Dept. of Fish and Wildlife that I saw on live TV talking about his wounded officer faked? I am as certain as anyone else of what I saw unfold—-please tell me what I missed in all of it if you are so certain that I can’t posibly be “certain”.

        Bob lists out the things I said that were “indicative of a loss of civilization and a descent into anarchy” and blithely says,. “Straw man, ad hominems and other logical fallacies”? (he had already delivered one of his own ad hominems earlier with “But accuracy has not been your strong suit”). That’s IT, Bob? You say it’s so and all your acolytes just suck that up? They probably will, because they have no idea of what those three things are, although coming to PLD is one of the best places on the web to see them, bar none.

        I will repost a clip that I posted on another PLD thread as ‘food for thought” about America’s “loss of civilization” . (although it may be a bit oxymoronic to say “food for thought” on PLD)

        AMONG INDUSTRIALIZED NATIONS, THE UNITED STATES HAS THE

        *highest poverty rate, both generally and for children
        *greatest inequality of incomes
        *lowest government spending as a percentage of GDP on social programs for the disadvantaged
        *lowest average number of days for paid holidays, annual leaves, and maternity leaves
        *lowest score on the United Nations index of “material well being of children”
        *worst score on the United Nations gender inequality index
        *lowest social mobility
        *highest public and private expenditure on health care as a percentage of GDP

        THESE TRENDS ARE ACCOMPANIED BY THE

        *highest infant mortality rate
        *highest prevalance of mental health problems
        *highest obesity rate
        *highest proportion of population going without health care due to cost
        *second lowest birth-weight for children per capita, behind only Japan
        *highest consumption of anti-depressants per capita
        *third shortest life expectancy behind only Denmark and Portugal
        *highest carbon dioxide emissions and water consumption per capita
        *second lowest score on the World Economic Forum’s environmental performance index, behind only Belgium
        *third-largest ecological footprint per capita, behind only Belgium and Denmark
        *highest rate of failure to ratify international agreements
        *lowest spending on international development and humanitarian assistance as a percentage of GDP
        *highest military spending as a percentage of GDP
        *largest international arms sales
        *fourth worst balance of payments, behind only New Zealand, Spain, and Portugal
        *third lowest scores for student performance in math, behind only Portugal and Italy, and far behnd the top in science and reading
        *second highest high-school dropout rate behind only Spain
        *highest homicide rate
        *largest prison population per capita

        These deplorable consequences did not just happen as the result of economic and technological forces over which we have no control. They are the results of conscious political decisions made over several decades by both Democrats and Republicans who have had priorities other than strengthening the well-being of American society and our environment. Many countries, notably in Europe, took a different path, one that was open to us also. America may have invented the middle class, but while others improved on our grand idea, we let it slip away.

        James Gustave Speth, “We’re Number One”, Yes Magazine, March 22, 2011
        http://www.yesmagazine.org/people-power/on-american-superiority

        • http://www.boblivingstonletter.com/ Bob Livingston

          Dear Right Brain Thinker,

          You write: ” Please tell me where I should go in the PLD archives to see evidence of that.and I will (may) take that back.” I have neither the time nor the desire to do so.

          Best wishes,
          Bob

      • http://gravatar.com/bychoosing WTS/JAY

        RBT: I read Dorner’s lengthy manifesto, and I am sorry that we will now likely never know the truth of his claims of having been “done dirty”—some of what he said was not all that crazy sounding.

        How can you be certain Dorner wrote that “manifesto”, RBT? You, and many others on this site go off on a tangent based on the assumption that Dorner wrote the “manifesto”, and that everything they heard about Dorner from the “alphabet-media” is the truth. How can you, in particular, and most on this site be so gullible? I suppose you also believe the fabricated-story of how Bin Laden was dispatched by the navy seals when he was in fact already dead 10 years prior?! Lol, lord love a duck!

      • Right Brain Thinker

        Bob Livingston says re: my request for a link to any PLD use of material from Alternet.
        ”I have neither the time nor the desire to do so” That’s OK, Bob, I have better things to do also “time” wise, like follow WTS/JAY down the rabbit hole on his latest journey to Wonderland with Alice. Too bad about that “desire” thing, though—–might raise a question about credibility.

        JAY says, “How can you be certain Dorner wrote that “manifesto”, RBT? You, and many others on this site go off on a tangent based on the assumption that Dorner wrote the “manifesto”, and that everything they heard about Dorner from the “alphabet-media” is the truth. How can you, in particular, and most on this site be so gullible?”

        That part in itself is loony enough, but JAY throws out a loony eclipse with,
        “I suppose you also believe the fabricated-story of how Bin Laden was dispatched by the navy seals when he was in fact already dead 10 years prior?”

        Why yes, JAY, I DO happen to believe Seal Team Six did it pretty much the way we have all been led to believe. Are you saying it actually happened within a year or so of 9/11? PLEASE, I BEG YOU, GIVE US LINKS! EVEN TO THOSE WING-NUTTY SITES YOU LOVE TO REFERENCE. WE NEED TO KNOW THE TRUTH !!!!!!!!!

        And “LOL, lord love a duck!” You had better stay away from my ducks if you know what’s good for you, [comment has been edited]

        • http://www.boblivingstonletter.com/ Bob Livingston

          Dear Right Brain Thinker,

          You write: “might raise a question about credibility.” Yours only.

          Best wishes,
          Bob

          P.S. If you were to employ both halves of your brain you might think to try using the site’s search feature to verify rather than continuing to comment out of ignorance.

      • Average Joe

        WTS/JAY,

        Spot on!
        Considering the disinformation distributed by the MSM over the last 50+ years, how can we possibly believe anything that they offer us as…News?
        99% pure propaganda, 1% truth.

        AJ

      • eddie47d

        I love your exaggerations Average Joe now isn’t that propaganda? (99%) You really believe Fox and other sources for the right are always telling the truth. Not even close!

      • http://gravatar.com/bychoosing WTS/JAY

        RBT:That part in itself is loony enough, but JAY throws out a loony eclipse with,
        “I suppose you also believe the fabricated-story of how Bin Laden was dispatched by the navy seals when he was in fact already dead 10 years prior?”

        Why yes, JAY, I DO happen to believe Seal Team Six did it pretty much the way we have all been led to believe. Are you saying it actually happened within a year or so of 9/11? PLEASE, I BEG YOU, GIVE US LINKS! EVEN TO THOSE WING-NUTTY SITES YOU LOVE TO REFERENCE. WE NEED TO KNOW THE TRUTH !!!!!!!!!

        Considering all the horse-pucky by the U.S. government through leftbrain-media, it’s interesting that people like you believe whatever they are told by “authoritative-sources”. Naturally then, how your brain functions becomes a point of fascination to me. How can you swallow information so completely without even asking some basic, common-sense questions about the reliability of that information? Because, you are suffering from a gullible-mind syndrome. It’s a malfunction in your brain that filters out information based on its source rather than its “integrity”. Gullible people like you, have misplaced trust in governments, institutions, (mainstream-media), ect…or anyone having the appearance of authority. Whereas a normal, intelligent person, would raise common-sense questions about information they receive from (all), sources! Unfortunately, the gullible-simpleton, completely accepts any/all information from sources that appear authoritative.

        But how does this work inside your head?

        You believe that it is possible for a government to lie, but you believe that governments choose not to, even when it would serve their own self interests to do so. Why? Because, ultimately, you believe that the government (obama-administration) operate from a code of “honour”. So, even if it were in the “administration’s” best interests to do so, it would never happen because that would violate this imaginary “code”.

        Is this “code” real? No, of course not. It’s all in your head! But being a gullible-fool that you are, it seems real. Interestingly, even though this “code” only exists in your imagination, you project this “delusion” onto sources of authorities.

        Why do you believe that mainstream-media always reports the truth? Because, you naively believe that mainstream-media operates from the same “code”, and this imaginary “code” requires them to always report the truth and never manipulate the news for any nefarious, or self-serving purposes. So to you, mainstream-media would never lie, and their reports are always factual, true, and without any consideration whatsoever of advertiser profits, right? This is pathetic, to say the least; sad, in fact. And yet, it is the core belief-system of at least half of the population in this country.

        Interestingly, gullible-people are also inwardly deluded because they do not recognize their own delusional-state. Instead, you believe you are operating with a rational-mind. You believe your rational-mind functions as a critical filter of incoming information, but even this is self-deception. In truth, your false, rational-mind is on “auto filter”. Your rational-mind filters out any information that conflicts with the information it is receiving from authoritative-sources. The key to understanding your gullibility, RBT; it isn’t the information itself that matters to you, rather, it is the “confirmation” of the information from authoritative-sources that “makes it real” in your gullible-mind…lord love a gullible-duck!

      • Right Brain Thinker

        Bob Livingston said re: my request for a link to any PLD use of material from Alternet.
        ”I have neither the time nor the desire to do so”

        I replied, “That’s OK, Bob, I have better things to do also “time” wise, like follow WTS/JAY down the rabbit hole on his latest journey to Wonderland with Alice. Too bad about that “desire” thing, though—–might raise a question about credibility”.

        Bob then stated, “You write: “might raise a question about credibility.” Yours only.
        P.S. If you were to employ both halves of your brain you might think to try using the site’s search feature to verify rather than continuing to comment out of ignorance”.

        Bob’s expected and oh-so-clever use of a double ad hominem got me asking “Why is Bob figuratively wagging his tail here? The sly old dog has got a sock hidden under the bed and is just DARING me to go for it”, so I did as he suggested and used the site’s search feature and searched for “alternet”.

        I was literally stunned to find that “alternet” was referenced in 10 (TEN) different articles in PLD over the past 27 months—-7 in 2011, 1 in 2012 (when Alternet was “down” for a while), and 2 so far in 2013.. I would hope Bob continues to use Alternet as a reference, because it has shown itself to offer a somewhat liberal but pretty much unbiased view of things.

        Of course, Bob has used Alternet for his own purposes. Three of the articles referenced were attacks on Cain, Perry, and Romney. Understandable since Bob didn’t like them as candidates and went to the best source for material to shoot them down—-couldn’t find that kind of truth on any right wing site. Three other “citations” were not linked, the articles just said “Alternet says”, so I can’t comment on the veracity of that usage. Since Alternet also has some problems with big government and big business, some articles just piggybacked on that or cited Alternet alongwith other sources to support the points made. Some of the articles were on rather obscure topics and didn’t even elicit triple digit numbers of comments.

        All that said, the sly old dog has snatched the sock away from me and I will concede error in being quite so presumptuous as to state that PLD had never referenced Alternet. So, I will no longer comment out of ignorance, but will extensively research any future references to Alternet on PLD and report back to all my best judgment on how well the PLD article may have used or misused Alternet—-I’m sure Bob will appreciate my efforts to lend “credibility” to what appears on PLD in that way.

        • http://www.boblivingstonletter.com/ Bob Livingston

          Dear Right Brain Thinker,

          You write: “I’m sure Bob will appreciate my efforts to lend “credibility” to what appears on PLD in that way.” Your “efforts to lend ‘credibility’” are not necessary.

          Best wishes,
          Bob

      • http://gravatar.com/bychoosing WTS/JAY

        RBT: So, I will no longer comment out of ignorance…

        That would be a welcomed change, RBT! We shall see if you are a man of your words…

      • Right Brain Thinker

        WTS/JAY uses the words “gullible-gullible-gullible” so many times here that he begins to sound like some kind or retarded turkey with a speech impediment. LOL

        Perhaps all have noticed that JAY has ignored my SHOUT to provide us info with,

        “Why yes, JAY, I DO happen to believe Seal Team Six did it pretty much the way we have all been led to believe. Are you saying it actually happened within a year or so of 9/11? PLEASE, I BEG YOU, GIVE US LINKS! EVEN TO THOSE WING-NUTTY SITES YOU LOVE TO REFERENCE. WE NEED TO KNOW THE TRUTH !!!!!!!!!”

        JAY? JAY? The question remains unanswered—–are you hiding from me? Oh well, let us get on to JAY’s latest bit of deviousness while we await that answer.

        People like WHO believe WHAT, JAY?
        I believe little of what I hear from the biased media of all stripes, MSM, left or right. I have great difficulty finding “authoritative sources” on anything anymore, particularly since the plutocracy and the corporate oligarchy have spent such big bucks to saturate the air waves and internet with their propaganda, making it even harder to ferret out truth. I swallow nothing without asking many questions. JAY knows this.

        JAY then goes on and on as he “explains” to all how my brain works. Actually, what he has stated is a much better reflection of the research findings laid out in The Republican Brain that describe the reliance on authoritarianism of the conservative brain. Of course, that is JAY’s strong suit, twisting reality to suit his own purposes and mislead any of you who put trust in anything he says. He’s doing it to you AGAIN here.

        Really, all Jay is doing here is another one of his periodic attacks on me. I don’t quite understand what brings them on—-perhaps his employers tell him “Go after RBT and try to distract him, he’s getting too close to inconvenient truths”. Or it happens in concert with JAY’s shifts from manic to depressive in his bi-polar world. Or his meds don’t work or he forgets to take them. Or it correlates with his alcohol intake. Or it’s just on his calendar to do every so often because it’s fun. Whatever the cause, it’s a shame, because the sober, non bi-polar, non-shill, serious JAY often says things I and many others can agree with him on. Too bad he can’t avoid the deep end.

        I can also say that how JAY’s brain functions “is a point of fascination to me”. He is virtually unique on PLD.

        Speech lesson time at the end here, JAY. We need to work on that “metl botl” glottal stop you have. Say after me, JAY—–gobBULL, gobBULL, gobBULL. Even a turkey should be expected to make sense.

      • Right Brain Thinker

        WTS/JAY needs to be a man of his words too….to remind him what they are—-

        gobble-gobble-gobble-gobble-gobble-horsepucky-gobble

      • sam1966

        Ha, ha, ha, ha! I see that Bob livingston has not just taken out RBT’s lead vehicle, but also the rear vehicle and is now preceding to ambush RBT’s convoy. RBT, thanks for the list of what America is and is not. Why are we this way? Could it be that we do not go by the Constitution, our Christian founding, our Christian founding father’s beliefs, but go by greed, progressivism, libturdism, many people crying secularism? Couldn’t it also be that we have turned our backs on God and now he is making us feel the heat for our mistakes? Here is something that can help show what is wrong with this country. Once again, sponsored by the 5th column.

        http://www.freedomoutpost.com/2013/02/lets-have-a-national-conversation/

        FOR GOD AND COUNTRY! 하나님하고 나라를 위해서!

        You need both love of country and faith in God to be a patriot.

        “A watchful eye must be kept on ourselves lest, while we are building ideal monuments of renown and bliss here, we neglect to have our names enrolled in the Annals of Heaven.”

        James Madison

      • http://gravatar.com/bychoosing WTS/JAY

        RBT: I believe little of what I hear from the biased media of all stripes, MSM, left or right. I have great difficulty finding “authoritative sources” on anything anymore, particularly since the plutocracy and the corporate oligarchy have spent such big bucks to saturate the air waves and internet with their propaganda, making it even harder to ferret out truth. I swallow nothing without asking many questions. JAY knows this.

        Really? Yet earlier you said this: And this is a problem why? Donner had declared war on the police, had killed a policeman’s DAUGHTER, and killed and wounded several who were not even involved in the alleged “dirty doings” against him that brought the whole thing on. One was a GAME WARDEN. It may not have been “nice” or even “right”, but the vast majority of Americans who do not inhabit the extreme left or the whacky, talk-out-of-both-sides-of-your-mouth right would probably say “Too bad it went that way, but it’s good that it’s over and no one else got hurt”.

        Where did you hear the above gobbledy-gook, RBT? From what reliable news-source did you hear, and “parroted” the above information, RBT? Can you confirm/verify any of it, RBT? Lol, Lord love a gullible-duck!

      • Right Brain Thinker

        sam1966 spouts a lot of “god and country” at us, but conveniently fails to address the list of “what America is or is not”, instead asking a bunch of rhetorical questions to which HE know the answers (of course), but really doesn’t say much too us, other than ask those questions. He than posts a link to a rant on a right wing-nut website that claims to go back to 1776 when we all know that Al Gore invented the internet long after that. He finishes with a message like that Sant aClaus gives to the reindeer when they take off——”For G&C, bowl of won-ton soup, James Madison said this”—-up, up, and away!

        FOR GOD AND COUNTRY! 하나님하고 나라를 위해서!
        You need both love of country and faith in God to be a patriot.
        “A watchful eye must be kept on ourselves lest, while we are building ideal monuments of renown and bliss here, we neglect to have our names enrolled in the Annals of Heaven.”

        What does any of that really say, sam? Looks to me like it’s just platitudes and a substitute for any real comment or argument. Why bother?

        Can’t you find ANYTHING to say about ANY of this?

        AMONG INDUSTRIALIZED NATIONS, THE UNITED STATES HAS THE

        *highest poverty rate, both generally and for children
        *greatest inequality of incomes
        *lowest government spending as a percentage of GDP on social programs for the disadvantaged
        *lowest average number of days for paid holidays, annual leaves, and maternity leaves
        *lowest score on the United Nations index of “material well being of children”
        *worst score on the United Nations gender inequality index
        *lowest social mobility
        *highest public and private expenditure on health care as a percentage of GDP

        THESE TRENDS ARE ACCOMPANIED BY THE

        *highest infant mortality rate
        *highest prevalance of mental health problems
        *highest obesity rate
        *highest proportion of population going without health care due to cost
        *second lowest birth-weight for children per capita, behind only Japan
        *highest consumption of anti-depressants per capita
        *third shortest life expectancy behind only Denmark and Portugal
        *highest carbon dioxide emissions and water consumption per capita
        *second lowest score on the World Economic Forum’s environmental performance index, behind only Belgium
        *third-largest ecological footprint per capita, behind only Belgium and Denmark
        *highest rate of failure to ratify international agreements
        *lowest spending on international development and humanitarian assistance as a percentage of GDP
        *highest military spending as a percentage of GDP
        *largest international arms sales
        *fourth worst balance of payments, behind only New Zealand, Spain, and Portugal
        *third lowest scores for student performance in math, behind only Portugal and Italy, and far behnd the top in science and reading
        *second highest high-school dropout rate behind only Spain
        *highest homicide rate
        *largest prison population per capita

        And JAY, I did say that even a retarded turkey needed to make sense. Which you don’t with your overreaching gobbledy-gook about confirmation/verification. Put the cap on the booze and say goodnight, JAY LOL yourself to sleep and sober up.

      • http://gravatar.com/bychoosing WTS/JAY

        50 Mind Blowing Facts About America That Our Founding Fathers Never Would Have Believed…

        #1 In 2010, not only does the United States have a central bank, but it also runs our economy and issues all of our currency. The Federal Reserve has devalued the U.S. dollar by over 95 percent since 1913 and it has been used to create the biggest mountain of government debt in the history of the world.

        #2 The U.S. Court of Appeals for the Ninth Circuit has ruled that U.S. government agents can legally sneak onto your property in the middle of the night, place a secret GPS device on the bottom of your car and keep track of you everywhere that you go.

        #3 The 50 wealthiest members of Congress saw their collective fortunes increase by 85.1 million dollars to $1.4 billion in 2009.

        #4 The U.S. government has accumulated a national debt that is rapidly approaching the 17 trillion dollar mark.

        #5 All over the United States, asphalt roads are being ground up and are being replaced with gravel because it is cheaper to maintain. The state of South Dakota has transformed over 100 miles of asphalt road into gravel over the past year, and 38 out of the 83 counties in the state of Michigan have now turned some of their asphalt roads into gravel roads.

        #6 Americans now owe more than $849 billion on student loans, which is more than the total amount that Americans owe on their credit cards.

        #7 In 2010, Americans waste an astounding amount of food. According to a study by the California Integrated Waste Management board, 63 percent of the average supermarket’s waste stream is food. When you break that down, it means that each supermarket wastes approximately 3,000 pounds of food each year.

        #8 The city of Cleveland plans to sort through curbside trash to ensure that people are actually recycling properly. If it is discovered that some citizens are not recycling they will be hit with very large fines.

        #9 Once upon a time, U.S. industry was the envy of the world. But since 1979, manufacturing employment in the United States has fallen by 40 percent.

        #10 Even though the U.S. population has exploded in size, the number of Americans with manufacturing jobs today is smaller than the number of Americans who were employed in manufacturing in 1950.

        #11 Having one out of every eight Americans enrolled in the food stamp program is now considered “the new normal” and Americans continue to drop into poverty in astounding numbers.

        #12 One out of every six Americans is now being served by at least one government anti-poverty program.

        #13 A family of four actually has difficulty surviving on an income of $50,000 a year in America in 2010.

        #14 Barack Obama is backing a proposal to create a national database that will store the DNA of all individuals who have been arrested, even if they end up not being convicted of a crime.

        #15 In 2010, it takes the average unemployed American worker over 8 months to find a job.

        #16 The U.S. government has made some parts of Arizona off limits to U.S. citizens because of the threat of violence from Mexican drug smugglers. The federal government has actually posted signs more than 100 miles north of the Mexican border warning travelers that certain areas are unsafe because of drug and alien smugglers.

        #17 One recent survey of last year’s college graduates discovered that 80 percent moved right back home with their parents after graduation.

        #18 In one of the very first military commissions held under the Obama administration, a U.S. military judge ruled that confessions obtained by threatening the subject with rape are admissible in court.

        #19 The average American worker now pays literally dozens of different kinds of taxes each year.

        #20 In recent years the U.S. government has spent $2.6 million tax dollars to study the drinking habits of Chinese prostitutes and $400,000 tax dollars to pay researchers to cruise six bars in Buenos Aires, Argentina to find out why gay men engage in risky sexual behavior when drunk.

        #21 Christians are being arrested and thrown in jail in some areas of the United States for quietly passing out Christian literature on public sidewalks.

        #22 The Florida State Department of Juvenile Justice has announced that it will begin using cutting edge analysis software to predict crime by young delinquents and will place “potential offenders” in prevention and education programs.

        #23 Organic milk is now considered such a national crisis that the FDA has been conducting military style raids on Amish farmers in the state of Pennsylvania.

        #24 The U.S. Environmental Protection Agency recently announced that they are considering a crackdown on farm dust.

        #25 According to a new CDC report, nearly half of all Americans now use prescription drugs on a regular basis.

        #26 Oakland, California Police Chief Anthony Batts says that due to severe budget cuts there are a number of crimes that his department will simply not be able to respond to any longer. The crimes that the Oakland police will no longer be responding to include grand theft, burglary, car wrecks, identity theft and vandalism.

        #27 Today, Americans are losing their homes in staggering numbers. One out of every seven mortgages was delinquent or in foreclosure during the first quarter of 2010.

        #28 Many of our leading scientists are now calling themselves “transhumanists” and are openly proclaiming that a future where men have fully merged with machines is inevitable.

        #29 Americans who spend large amounts of cash are viewed as “potential criminals” by the U.S. government in 2010.

        #30 New full body security scanners going into airports all across the United States can actually see through our clothing and produce very clear and very detailed images of our exposed bodies as we walk through them.

        #31 The U.S. financial system has become a massive gambling parlor in 2010. As a result, a horrific derivatives bubble has developed that threatens to destroy our entire economy at any moment. Nobody knows exactly how big the derivatives bubble is, but low estimates place it at around 600 trillion dollars and high estimates put it at around 1.5 quadrillion dollars. Once that bubble pops there simply will not be enough money in the entire world to fix it.

        #32 The U.S. government is spending an amount of money equivalent to approximately 25.4 percent of GDP this year.

        #33 Today, 10,000 people make 30% of the total income in the United States.

        #34 A 2006 Immigration and Customs Enforcement investigation discovered that 250 employees of the Defense Department used credit cards or PayPal to purchase images of children in sexual situations. However, the investigation also found that the Pentagon investigated only a handful of those cases.

        #35 According to a recent poll of Americans between the ages of 44 and 75, 61% said that running out money was their biggest fear. The remaining 39% thought death was scarier.

        #36 Approximately 57 percent of Barack Obama’s 3.8 trillion dollar budget for 2011 consists of direct payments to individual Americans or is money that is spent on their behalf.

        #37 A recent Department of Justice guide for investigators of criminal and extremist groups lists “constitutionalists” and “survivalists” alongside organizations like Al-Qaeda and the Aryan Brotherhood.

        #38 The U.S. trade deficit has exploded to nightmarish proportions over the past two decades. Every single month tens of billions more dollars goes out of the United States than comes into it. Essentially, the United States is becoming far poorer as a nation each and every month.

        #39 Factories are closing in droves across the United States because the American people would rather buy things made in China.

        #40 Millions upon millions of good paying middle class jobs are being shipped off to China and they are never coming back. Meanwhile, U.S. politicians stand by idly and do nothing.

        #41 Some analysts now believe that China could become the largest economy in the world by the year 2020.

        #42 If the U.S. government was forced to use GAAP accounting principles (like all publicly-traded corporations must), the annual U.S. government budget deficit would be somewhere in the neighborhood of four to five trillion dollars.

        #43 According to one recent survey, 28% of all U.S. households have at least one person that is currently searching for a full-time job.

        #44 The U.S. dollar continues to rapidly decline in value. An item that cost $20.00 in 1970 will cost you $112.35 today. An item that cost $20.00 in 1913 will cost you $440.33 today.

        #45 Major international organizations are actually proposing that the United States start considering the adoption of a truly global currency.

        #46 Students at a high school in Missouri have built a car that they claim can get up to 450 miles per gallon. On another note, some of the top energy experts in the world believe that thorium could solve our energy problems and supply very cheap energy for society for hundreds of thousands of years. But in today’s world technologies such as these are endlessly suppressed by the rich and powerful.

        #47 One Colorado high school student is seeking an explanation from officials at his school after he was ordered by security guards to remove American flags from his truck because they might make other students at the high school “uncomfortable”.

        #48 Three California high school students were recently forced to remove their American flag T-shirts on Cinco de Mayo.

        #49 Memorial crosses erected along Utah public roads to honor fallen state troopers have been found unconstitutional by a federal appeals court and now must be removed permanently.

        #50 One group of high school students made national headlines recently when they revealed that a security guard ordered them to stop singing the national anthem during a visit to the Lincoln Memorial.

      • sam1966

        Say RBT, when are you going to answer my questions? I didn’t ask for some unfounded rant, but answers. Were the questions too difficult for you to understand? Try using some intelligence and maturity next time. Here is something about the Todd Akin of the left, from Colorado.

        http://www.lifenews.com/2013/02/19/democrat-apologizes-said-potential-rape-victims-shouldnt-defend-themselves/

        Looks like the 5th column just messed up big time. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY! 하나님하고 나라를 위해서!

        You need both love of country and faith in God to be a patriot. This leaves you out.

        “In all my perplexidies and distresses, the Bible has never failed to give me light and strength.”

        General Robert E. Lee

      • Right Brain Thinker

        sam1966 says: “Say RBT, when are you going to answer my questions? I didn’t ask for some unfounded rant, but answers” Perhaps when you use some intelligence and maturity in wording them? Just because you put question marks at the end of them, that doesn’t change the fact that your “questions” are really statements of your delusional beliefs rather than actually seeking answers from anyone. You ask questions just to hear yourself talk, and I don’t play that children’s game. Is that too difficult for you to understand?

        “In all my perplexidies and distresses, the Bible has never failed to give me light and strength.” General Robert E. Lee

        I’m sure that “Lee the Loser” needed to find solace somewhere. If the South had listened more to Stonewall and Old Pete, they would have had a better chance of winning the war

        • Bob666

          Yo RBT,
          Poor Samuri1966 can’t keep up with his quotes, Being tan official messenger for god is hard work and being able to judge everyone takes even more effort. Let’s not forget the 5th column (who ever they are?) keeping their eye on him while Obama is hiding under his bed.

          Yes, old Sameiabable1966 is busy man no doubt.

      • Right Brain Thinker

        Bob Livingston says:

        You write: “I’m sure Bob will appreciate my efforts to lend “credibility” to what appears on PLD in that way.”

        Your “efforts to lend ‘credibility’” are not necessary. Best wishes, Bob

        Bob,
        Since I can’t “show up for dinner with a bottle of wine”, I feel duty bound to contribute to PLD in some way to repay your hospitality. Since I’m quite good at “truth”, I am sure that my comments will be helpful to you in making your points (as long as you stick with the truth). You may recall that I HAVE agreed with you and even complimented you on more than one occasion. I hope to be able to do that again. No thanks for my efforts will be necessary.
        RBT

      • Average Joe

        eddie47d ,

        You do know that MSM…is mainstream media…right? MSM would include pretty much anything that one can watch on the tube. Why do you harbour such fantasies that everyone is singling out Liberal TV? MSM…they all lie…got it?
        Remove head from backside…look around and live in reality….instead of Fantasyland.

        AJ

  • FreedomFighter

    As Napolitano points out, not only is the murder of al-Awlaki for encouraging others to make war on America a violation of natural law, it’s a violation of his 1st Amendment rights, his 4th Amendment rights and several Federal statutes. “No law or legal principal justifies the U.S. government killing him then and there; in fact, numerous laws prohibit it,” he writes. The use of the CIA for offensive killing also violates Federal law, as intelligence agents may lawfully kill only in self-defense.

    Considering the NDAA defines American soil as a battlefield, this kinda precedent set, could lead to Americans on American soil being targeted as “combatants”. This is a 1st step to that goal, and needs to be stopped.

    I dont have a problem with killing terrorists, just do it the legal way, the right way.

    Laus Deo
    Semper FI

  • http://gravatar.com/bychoosing WTS/JAY
  • ranger09

    So right, This kind of killing must stop. Our govt. has become like Israel Kill anyone You believe is againest you, Or is in your way. Sad way for our Country to become. All the govt has to do is say you are guilty and then they can Execute you, Its been going on for some yrs Now, And the Public still shuts its eyes.

    • FreedomFighter

      Why Drones Should Make You Afraid. Very Afraid.
      http://www.infowars.com/why-drones-should-make-you-afraid-very-afraid/

      “*The Obama administration has pledged to relax Federal Aviation Administration restrictions by 2015 to make it easier for the 18,000 U.S. law-enforcement agencies to deploy drones for surveillance and other uses.”

      An outlaw government with drone spys watching everyone, then come the armed drones with tasers, tear gas, shotguns, machine guns and explosives. Anyone that thinks the government needs to spy 24/7, employ robotic killers on its own citizens, is crazy, a marxist, communist, facist or totalitarian – not a liberty and freedom loving American. If you want that kinda country to live in – head to North Korea.

      Ask yourself: “Why, why does the government need this?” any answer you come up with will scare the &^^%$ out of you. Bottom line is: To control you, to enslave you or kill you.

      Laus Deo
      Semper FI

      • http://personalliberty Alondra

        The Kenyan FRAUD’s spokesperson Macaque Sharpton says you do not need the 2nd Amendment because it’s useless and just need to keep in your mind who is in charge:

        “If the government would come to disarm you, you WOULD NOT BE ABLE to use an automatic weapon to defend yourself. Let’s be serious. We are in the world of drones now. So the 2nd Amendment would not help you in that area. It is absurd to TRY to cite that … For those who use the 2nd amendment. For those who use the 2nd amendment … THEY HAVE NO ARGUMENT.”

        So, PEOPLE, STOP to whine about your nonsensical murky rights. You have NO ANY rights. You just have a BIG brother, who said: “I am my brother’s KEEPER” 57 times. And after that you still equally stubborn in your unbelieving him. I did not convince you? Than listen Macaque Sharpton himself, maybe he will convince you.

        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Uls2mNuUmI

      • Charlie

        Alondra,,,
        Should The American Militia listen to some nit wit female? OR King Jesus Christ???

    • Wellarmed

      I agree with you Ranger09 about how we are emulating Israel in targeting people who the Government merely “suspects” as threats to our nation. The Mosad was caught awhile back conducting a hit in the U.A.E. at a resort against a target that they said was a supporter of Hamas. It was fairly evident that they wished to have this operation visible, as they made a lame attempt at covering their tracks after committing the crime.

      The reason that our country should not engage in torture, murder (covert/openly), or denial of due process is that it will open the floodgates for these same type of crimes to occur on our soil, and we will have no one but ourselves to blame as our enemies can claim that they are carrying out justice for attacks upon the sovereignty of their Nation.

      It is simply wrong, and we as Americans know it and know better.

  • JeffH

    The greatest distinguishing factor between countries in which there is some freedom and those where authoritarian governments manage personal behavior is the Rule of Law. The idea that the very laws that the government is charged with enforcing could restrain the government itself is uniquely Western and was accepted with near unanimity at the time of the creation of the American Republic. Without that concept underlying the exercise of governmental power, there is little hope for freedom.

    In our system, the power to resolve the dilemma is reposed into the hands of the judiciary, and those who have that power are to resolve it without regard to popularity or politics. Their oath is to the Constitution. They have the final say on what the laws mean. If they follow the Rule of Law, they will invalidate that which the government has done and which is properly challenged before them and which is not authorized by the Constitution. Their very purpose is to be anti-democratic, lest the popular majority takes whatever lives, liberties or property it covets. In return for life tenure, we expect judicial modesty, and we demand constitutional fidelity – not political compromise.

    In our era, the violations of the Rule of Law have become most troublesome when the government breaks its own laws. Prosecute Roger Clemens for lying to Congress? What about all the lies Congress tells? Prosecute John Edwards for cheating? What about all the cheating in Congress when it enacts laws it hasn’t read? Bring the troops home from the Middle East? What about all the innocents killed secretly by the president using CIA drones? Can’t find a way to justify Obamacare under the Constitution? Why not call it what its proponents insisted it isn’t – a tax?

    We live in perilous times. The president acts above the Rule of Law and fights his own wars. Congress acts below the Rule of Law by letting the president do whatever he can get away with. And this summer, the Supreme Court rewrote the Rule of Law.

    What do we do about it?
    - Andrew P. Napolitano

    • http://wildeyguns.com The Christian American

      What does the “Rule of Law” imply? Whoever’s in power makes the laws? God forbid. Law has to have a better origin that. Try the Transcendental Law or God’s law’s being the foundation of all law, not Satan’s persuasions, edicts and decrees. At Bunker Hill the colonist told the slimey red costs “No King but Jesus”. We take orders from our King, not yours. There is no law in America. All that there is the majority imposing it’s will on the minority and in this case the majority constitutes a mob ruling the way mobs do with Obama acting as mob leader.

    • sam1966

      Well said both of you. I’m proud to stand beside you both in this fight for our country. Here is something by Paul Harvey about liberals.

      http://www.conservativevideos.com/2013/02/paul-harvey-parody-so-god-made-a-liberal/

      Isn’t this the truth or what? FOR GOD AND COUNTRY! 하나님하고 나라를 위해서!

      You need both love of country and faith in God to be a patriot.

      “We have staked the future of all our political institution upon the capacity of each and all of us to govern ourselves, to control ourselves, to sustain ourselves according to the Ten Commandments of God.”

      James Madison

      *No secularism or atheism here.

  • Joel Dennis

    I can’t criticize Obama for smoking Al Awaki but the dems would surely be impeaching Bush if he did the same thing.

    • eddie47d

      Not really you silly! Then Bush would have been impeached a hundred times over with the invasion of Iraq,falsified information and numerous killing in Iraq,Afghanistan and Pakistan.

      • sam1966

        Don’t forget Ed, more soldiers and civilians dies in Afghanistan and Pakistan under Obama bin Laden than under Bush. Iraq, baaaaa! Wars, baaaaa! Bush, baaaaa! Just the average 5th column sheeple. Here is some good news on the homefront. A victory for freedom of speech and religion.

        http://www.godfatherpolitics.com/9493/aclu-loses-fight-to-remove-ten-commandments-display/#ixzz2LGxX02bJ

        Victory for our Constitution, Christian founding, and America as a whole. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY! 하나님하고 나라를 위해서!

        You need both love of country and faith in God to be a patriot.

        “The Federalist may fairly enough be regarded as the most authentic exposition of the heart of the federal Constitution as understood by the body which prepared and the authority which accepted it.”

        James Madison

    • cawmun cents

      Bush may have used the dronEs…but the argument isnt whether to use drones,it is whether to use them against Citizens of the US.
      THAT IS WHERE THE ARGUMENT TAKES A HORRIBLE TURN FOR THE WORST IN A PROGRESSIVES EYES.
      You see,they dont want to envision their lord and savior Obama as doing something unworthy of their combined intent,so they make arguments that Bush did the same thing,even though it is untrue.It serves as a reminder that in order to make a point,they will substantiate arguments that have little to do with the current subject,and try to make it seem as if there is nothing to question,because of past practice.They use the lawyers perspective as in a court of law,yet they do not want to see the practices of their glorious leaders questioned in the same manner by those with a differing perspective.
      So they result to pointing the finger of blame at others,charging others with racism and bigotry,and blaming Bush.
      Their strategy never changes because they have no conscious argument that makes any real sense to begin with.They are just progressive talking heads without a body of belief to back them.
      But what do I know?
      Apparently very little…..
      Cheers!
      -CC.

      • eddie47d

        C C:The last time I looked a few thousand American citizens died on 9/11 and those who caused it and HELPED are still responsible. Whether you think it was the US government behind it or outside terrorists there are still thorns to pull out. I would also say that the deaths of our troops in Iraq and Afghanistan are included in Americans being killed. So enough of your whinny Progressive this and Progressive that doing all the damage!

      • Native Blood

        Eddie sez:C C:The last time I looked a few thousand American citizens died on 9/11 and those who caused it and HELPED are still responsible.
        _____________________________________________________________________
        Eddie, not one Iraqui did this on 911. W did not attack Saudi Arabia…WHY?

    • http://personalliberty Alondra

      The Kenyan Fraud’s team “obama organizing for America” created Cyber Army thru DHS and developed the massive DISINFORMATION campaign to attack Conservative Anti-obama sites, Christians, all those, who oppose the Kenyan FRAUD’s agenda/ policies.
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=BbGjGn-zlG4

      Thru DHS they hired 3575 cyber ‘warriors’ a.k.a. paid shills to use an Internet as a MISINFORMATION tool to attack opposition. They are going after pro-Constitution, pro-guns, Christian “bigots” and “homophobes”, pro-lifers, pro-God’s marriage, et cetera. Their task is to vilify & nullify “false” information. Their goal is to destroy all American & Conservative VALUES.

      This is already happening. According to the source they put this into the play 2 days after inauguration.

      Each person of those 3575 people involved in this project, are creating multiple online identities. So 3575 would turn into 35 thousands and more, who would launch FULL TIME attacks on each and every one who is opposing the Charlatan’s agenda.

      This is an operation that has very strong structure with its leaders, supervisors and advisors, who instructing and training the paid shills how to launch the ACCUSATIONS of racism, of bigotry, homophobia, islamophobia, et cetera and giving them the TALKING POINTS to advance the Kenyan’s agenda. This is NOT an administration initiative. This is strictly an obama and the people, who are around him, initiative. They are trained in the PSYCHOLOGICAL WARFARE how to bring down an enemy/opponent by using Alinsky’s rules for radicals. If it does not work on the psychological level, then they are eliminating an enemy physically.

      “28 And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. But rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.” – Jesus Christ (Matthew 10)

      The UNINFORMED people are DISARMED people.
      If public will be informed, the O’Homobama money will be flashed into the toilet.

      The best way to “fight” them is to SPREAD the TRUTH and to ignore their comments.
      “Great is TRUTH, and mighty ABOVE ALL THINGS.” (2Ezdra 4:41)

      This is the BEST ARM against LIBTARDS/progressives/communists/fascists/ DEMONcrats.

      P.S. Just look how many lamebrained jerks on PLD website: Robert Smith, KG, Jeff, his lackey satanist bobby, Flashy, Jopa, Nut Case, mark, Drakulette Karolyn & her buddy eddie(donkey), Donna, christopher allen horton, Mary, cawmun cents…

      Do not hesitate to add to the list.

      • http://personalliberty Alondra

        In his Amazing Speech at the National Prayer Breakfast on February 7, 2013 Dr. Benjamin Carson said: “WHEN YOU EDUCATE A MAN, YOU LIBERATE A MAN”.

        He spoke about PC, EDUCATION, Entitlements, Taxes, Spending, Health Care, Politics and his FAITH. EACH word he spoke was TRUE!

        The Dr. Carson’s speech made the Kenyan FRAUD to feel veeeery uncomfortable in his chair.

        The CORRUPT WHORE media and DEMONcrat commentators were “OUTRAGED”. They unanimously drummed that the Dr. Carson’s speech was “inappropriate” for the place & time.

        If you did not see his Amazing speech you can listen it and decide for yourselves. For ONE week it got more than 2 Million hits.

        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PFb6NU1giRA

        God BLESS Dr. Benjamin Carson.

        Warning: Not recommended for the TRUE RACIST due their high neurotic sensitivity.

      • Bob666

        Ms piggy,
        how many times are you going to past this dribble?

        If someone owes me a check-they need to pay up!

      • sam1966

        How many times are you going to come to this site Bob antichrist and waste our time? No facts or sources, just the personal attack. Classic 5th colum strategy. Here is something we can do to help defeat the monster that the 5th columners started in this country 40 years ago.

        http://www.fpiw.org/about/family-policy-blog/abortion-and-fear.html

        Patriots are winning on this front and on many more. Keep up the good fight fellow patriots. With our praying and God’s help, we are beginning to sweep the field. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY! 하나님하고 나라를 위해서!

        You need both love of country and faith in God to be a patriot. This leaves you out Bob.

        “Those nations only are blessed whose God is the Lord.”

        Abraham Lincoln

  • James

    Bernard Forand, you obviously have your head crammed way up where the Sun don’t shine!!! Just like a liberal democrat progressive….that’s what you are sounding like!

    How about realizing the truth…it matters not which party is in the White House…DEM or REP, there is an obvious agenda to destroy the Constitution and the Bill of Rights! Along with our economy, Clinton signed NAFTA and GATT into effect…Bush Jr. gave us The Patriot Act and Homeland Security….and Obama, while continuing Bush’s bad ideas, has crammed Obamacare down our throats and is killing American without a trial!

    WAKE THE PUCK UP AMERICA…BEFORE IT’S TO LATE…….IT MAY ALREADY BE!!!!!!!

  • cawmun cents

    Bottom line is that somewhere and order is issued to “burn em”,and then the lie is propagated through media sources that it was an accident….and it seems plausible,so everyone buys into it like it was and established fact.
    Meanwhile evidence of guilt or even corraborating evidence which colud be gathered by CSI department representatives,has been completely obliterated,and another lie is propagated which seems plausible to back the first one.
    You are all continually duped by the dissemmination of information as prescribed by the FCC,under Federal guidelines.Moreover whatever seems plausible becomes for the most part established fact,though there is no real evidence provided to give the source for that information,credulity.
    -CC.

    • sam1966

      I understand what you have posted fellow patriot. Lies and debt are only part of our problem. We, as a nation, have become immoral, turned our backs on God, and many d’ont care about the Constituion or our laws. Here is something showing 2 women in Pontiac, Michigan committing fraud,

      http://www.clashdaily.com/2013/02/debt-is-only-a-symptom-of-what-is-destroying-us/

      Lies are also just the tip of the iceburg. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY! 하나님하고 나라를 위해서!

      You need both love of country and faith in God to be a patriot.

      “Those rights, then, which God and nature have established, and therefore called natural rights, such as life and liberty, need not the aid of human laws to be more effectively invested in every man than they are; neither do they receive any additional strength when declared by the municipal laws to be inviolable. On the contrary, NO HUMAN LEGISLATURE HAS THE POWER TO ABRIDGE OR DESTROY THEM, unless the owner shall himself commit some act that amounts to a forfeiture (Commit a crime that takes away the right for whatever period of time.).”

      William Blackstone

  • http://midcontent ridge runner

    News Alert::: The marxist muslim moron just said another lie #2 trillion 800 billion and some change. The lie ” his is the most transparent adminstration, noy mentstration on record, his is the loose lipped leakers of nationasl secrets!

  • Patriot

    I knew it, Bob Livingston siding with terrorists. I always knew it. So three Ameican born terrorist family members were killed in a drone attack. The GOP and Republicans are traitors for siding with terrorists. Bob Livingston should be rode out of town on a rail, for his un-American comments.

    • Butch

      Not sure if this post is serious or not. One thing you should ALWAYS get in this nation and that’s due process. “Siding with terrorists” is one of the stupidest comments ever posted on this site and that’s saying something with Flashy and eddie throwing their libtard drivel out there.

  • Chester

    Bob, those “gentlemen” waived due process when they joined with a sworn enemy to attack America and/or her interests abroad. The last time I looked at the UCMJ, among other things, American “citizens” discovered in the act of aiding our enemy deserve no more trial than the enemy troops they are aiding. Might want to actually read a bit of the law instead of just jumping on the idea that ALL citizens are GUARANTEED a fair trial. That just isn’t so, and no one knows it better than the man who stands up in front of us screaming the very opposite.

  • Jeffersonian

    With regard to the younger al-Awlaki, 16-year-old Abdulrahman, who was killed while eating at an outdoor restaurant, it appears incontrovertable, to me at least, that our commander in chief is guilty of war crimes as defined by the Geneva Convention and should be immediately impeached.

    http://www.icrc.org/customary-ihl/eng/docs/v1_cha_chapter44_rule156

    List of war crimes
    War crimes include the following serious violations of international humanitarian law:

    (i) Grave breaches of the Geneva Conventions:
    In the case of an international armed conflict, any of the following acts committed against persons or property protected under the provisions of the relevant Geneva Convention:
    • wilful killing;

    (ii) Other serious violations of international humanitarian law committed during an international armed conflict (continued):
    • making the civilian population or individual civilians, not taking a direct part in hostilities, the object of attack;

    For those who will argue that Yemen is not party to an international conflict, think again, they are the subject of the declared War on Terror.

  • http://gravatar.com/plfprime GALT

    “As Judge Andrew Napolitano points out, the President may kill only after due process, in self-defense or under a declaration of war.”

    Why hasn’t he pointed out that there are no common law and equity courts?

    Why haven’t you Bob?

    Without “common law and equity” what makes you think, what you, the Judge
    or what anybody else thinks, means anything at all?

    The UCMJ…which is admiralty/maritime has article 134, which says, anything
    not covered elsewhere, is covered under THIS………

    Which basically says: Who cares what you think?

    • Charlie

      GALT,,,
      There are only 2 “””Jurisdictions””” ,Authority of Law, on planet Earth,,, those 2 , are God’s and Man’s… America has NOT been operating under The Constitution or The Bible for well over 20 plus years, so that amount of time operating under “”Legalize Loonicy””” gives so called “Government” a “Prescriptive” right to continue on under a mix of Martial Law Rule, Statute law, codes, etc… The Law of the Sea, The Constitution , or most Man made up law systems DOES NOT supersede, lessen , or in anyway reduce The Word of The Almighty God…King Jesus Christ told His People how to apply His Law and Power , and all “True Christian”” that I know are in compliance with what King Jesus said at Matthew 6:33… The Holy Bible was The First Constitution of America and The First Law Book , for real Christian Americans… America will be “”Judged” per The Holy Bible…
      Don’t know The Bible? then you don’t understand what’s coming … Meanwhile……………
      Praise King Jesus for Salvation and Healing… Acts 2:38 is salvation…

      Charlie Freedom

      • Bob666

        Oh Charlie,
        King Jesus? make an argument on your own two feet ot don’t make it at all.

      • Charlie

        Bob666,,,
        Who can argue against The Holy Bible??? at least I know what Jurisdiction I’ m under…
        Meanwhile………….. Praise King Jesus for Salvation and Healing… Acts 2:38 is salvation…

        Charlie Freedom

        • Bob666

          Charlie,
          “Who can argue against The Holy Bible??? at least I know what Jurisdiction I’ m under”

          Who can and will argue? a guy with a Koran and both of you get guns and the inocent start getting hurt.

  • joe1cr

    I wish Bob would take the floating link for Facebook and twitter away from where we are trying to read the articles and out of his videos
    Screens also.Does this annoy anyone else or is it just me ?

    • Bob666

      Yo Joe,
      Agree 100%-this was not an inprovment to his site.

  • Dave Bishop

    I can -with some reservation- agree with Bob on this one, but to go after the LAPD is more than I can stomach. Dorner had said he would not be taken alive. His assassination of police from various areas and the targeting of the daughter of a police officer and her boy friend made him a vicious killer. The man was a sharpshooter and a certifiable killer who justified his murderous rampage because of his treatment by the police department. Bob, you are wrong, wrong, wrong.

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