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Afghanistan: A Lost Cause

May 25, 2011 by  

Afghanistan: A Lost Cause

“Afghanization. Vietnamization. Surge. Gradual escalation. Corrupt dictators. Internal dissension. The war follows a familiar script.” POLITICO

Despite proclamations of victory by the Administration of President Barack Obama, the death of Osama bin Laden is not like the fall of Berlin in 1945. In itself, killing bin Laden brings no peace. It does ask many unsettling questions about America’s No. 1 ally in the War on Terror, Pakistan. It also puts into question America’s ability to even win the war in Afghanistan.

When Obama took office, he got this advice from Vice President Joe Biden: “If you don’t get Pakistan right, you can’t win.”[1]

The reason was and remains simple. The enemy, the Taliban, are using Pakistan as a base to operate hit-and-run missions against American troops the way North Vietnam used Cambodia to strike GIs four decades ago. The key difference is former President Richard Nixon launched attacks into Cambodia. Obama’s Cambodia is Pakistan, a Muslim nation with 100 nuclear weapons in its inventory.

If you think the nearly decade-long war in Afghanistan has a lot of similarities with Vietnam, you are not alone. The New York Times reports the recently deceased Ambassador Richard Holbrooke had to shut up regarding how badly the war in Afghanistan was going.

“There are structural similarities between Afghanistan and Vietnam,” Holbrooke noted, in ruminations now in the hands of his widow, Kati Marton.

“He thought that this could become Obama’s Vietnam,” Marton recalled. “Some of the conversations in the Situation Room reminded him of conversations in the (Lyndon B.) Johnson White House. When he raised that, Obama didn’t want to hear it.”

The Times indicated if Holbrooke were still alive, he would be shuttling frantically between Islamabad, Pakistan, and Kabul, Afghanistan, trying to take advantage of bin Laden’s killing to lay the groundwork for a peace process.

The Ghost of LBJ

Johnson was a guns-and-butter Democrat who sat in the Oval Office during the Vietnam War. The undoing of the nation was not solely over his vision of the Great Society, but rather America’s defeat in Vietnam.

Even LBJ finally understood that Vietnam was a lost cause, but not before tens of thousands of Americans died.

Johnson drawled: “Light at the end of the tunnel? We don’t even have a tunnel; we don’t even know where the tunnel is.”

This truth applies to Obama, who still won’t admit it. Without Pakistan as a reliable partner, the United States cannot win peace in Afghanistan. And Pakistan is moving away from the U.S. faster than a bootlegger from the cops.

Last week, the Toronto Sun wrote: “The Pakistani government is embarrassed that bin Laden was found living in relative comfort, but there’s little in their reaction that indicates shame. Rather, they are miffed that the American SEAL team went in without telling them. Parliamentarians even cheered Prime Minister Yousuf Gilani when he warned of dire consequences if the U.S. ever again sent troops into Pakistan without permission.”

Gilani declared that Pakistani intelligence services were neither complicit nor incompetent and that the discovery of bin Laden living in plain sight of Pakistan’s military academy was not Pakistan’s fault. He insisted China is Pakistan’s “all-weather friend” and implied the U.S. is an unfaithful ally.

Can you imagine Winston Churchill warning America about coming on British soil to hunt Nazis during World War II? Of course not, but Pakistan is not a real ally. It is a Muslim nation in which key members of the government and its intelligence service (Inter-Services Intelligence) covertly plan American deaths in Afghanistan while cheering on a war that is exhausting both America’s financial resources and the nation’s psyche.

But there are no Churchills in Pakistan or Afghanistan.

The President of Pakistan is Asif Ali Zardari. His own people call him “Mr. 10 Percent” because of all the kickbacks he took during the premiership of his late wife, Benazir Bhutto, who was assassinated when she again ran for office in 2007. Not only is Zardari corrupt, but he is weak against the Muslim mob which grows angrier each month.

The other key ally in America’s war on terror is Afghanistan President Hamid Karzai, who is also corrupt, perhaps delusional and, most likely, a drug addict. The U.N. envoy to Afghanistan even questioned the “mental stability” of Karzai and suggested the Afghan president may be using drugs.

In an interview on MSNBC, Peter Galbraith described Karzai as “off-balance” and “emotional.” Galbraith went so far as to call for Obama to limit Karzai’s power to appoint officials within Afghanistan until he proves himself a reliable partner.

“He’s prone to tirades. He can be very emotional, act impulsively. In fact, some of the palace insiders say that he has a certain fondness for some of Afghanistan’s most profitable exports,” said Galbraith, in reference to heroin.

When asked straight out if Karzai is a drug addict, Galbraith responded: “There are reports to that effect. But whatever the cause is, he can be very emotional.”

You can see where this is going. In World War II America had Churchill and Charles de Gaulle on our side. In this war we have Zardari and Karzai, two leaders that make South Vietnam’s dictator Ngô Đình Diệm look like Thomas Jefferson.

A Steep Price of Peace

There is a lot of money being made in these Arab wars, at least for U.S. military contractors. Fighting in Afghanistan and Iraq has cost more than$1 trillion. Yet some neoconservatives just can’t get enough, as was evident earlier this year when Senator John McCain (R-Ariz.) wanted to put boots on the ground in Libya. McCain declared the Libyan “rebels” are true heroes and represent American democracy. Either the Senator has seen Star Wars one too many times, or he has forgotten that Americans are still dying because Washington armed the mujahideen in Afghanistan in the 1980s.

It is true that Presidents and generals never get credit for battles they never fought. In this way President George H.W. Bush never got credit for not invading Iraq in 1991 and for letting the Communist bloc determine their destiny without American interference.

Furthermore, the success in killing bin Laden shows that surgical operations, whether lead by SEAL teams or pinpoint bombing, can knock out America’s enemies and not at the cost of hundreds of billions of dollars per year.

But I don’t expect Obama to declare victory and bring the troops home anytime soon. There is still an election to win, so I expect the President to give his “Peace with Honor” speech just before Americans go to the polls.

Yours in good times and bad,

–John Myers
Editor, Myers’ Energy & Gold Report

[1] From the book, Obama’s War, Bob Woodward, Simon & Shuster, New York, NY, 2010

John Myers

is editor of Myers’ Energy and Gold Report. The son of C.V. Myers, the original publisher of Oilweek Magazine, John has worked with two of the world’s largest investment publishers, Phillips and Agora. He was the original editor for Outstanding Investments and has more than 20 years experience as an investment writer. John is a graduate of the University of Calgary. He has worked for Prudential Securities in Spokane, Wash., as a registered investment advisor. His office location in Calgary, Alberta, is just minutes away from the headquarters of some of the biggest players in today’s energy markets. This gives him personal access to everyone from oil CEOs to roughnecks, where he learns secrets from oil insiders he passes on to his subscribers. Plus, during his years in Spokane he cultivated a network of relationships with mining insiders in Idaho, Oregon and Washington.

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  • Cawmun Cents

    We give billions to Pakistan and clearly they are permitting the worst of our enemies to hide in their nation.With allies like this who needs enemies?How can an established Muslim nation be called our ally,except by people who just dont get the Muslim religion.Someone need to do some splaining Lucy.Has anyone read the history concerning Muslims?They were treated very harshly by the Mongols because they always betrayed them.Eastern Europe hated them and the legend of Dracula was born as a result.Dont get me started on the Eastern Roman Empire,and their experience with Muslims.Ok so they gave us algebraic formula and mosaic tile.Minarets and whirling dervishes…and oil…lots of oil.But other than that(and some nice things said by spanish people)….not much.Point is that they are not allies that we can trust or fund in any way.Yet the last few administrations have gleefully done just that.We are paying them to attempt to kill us.That is ridiculous.

    • FreedomFighter

      The US military can win any war, the politicians just have to let them win-wage war not a police action.

      Laus Deo
      Semper Fi

      • http://none ralph herman

        What is the mission of the bayonet?To kill Ivan sir.Those days are over and our armed forces can hold their own with any situation but not with their hands tied.The troops should be able to return fire and run the enemy to ground and kill them.You resist my enemy or you are my enemy.Lt.Calley was right Kill them all and let God sort them out.With the mess we have over there train them and with draw and stop being their cash cow.In a matter of a few years they are back in the same shape corrupt and still fighting themselves.

        • eddie47d

          Lt Calley was a mass murderer who should have been locked up for life at the minimum.To use him as a shining example in how to run a war tells me you also have an unstable mind. Most people can accept collateral damage in a war but not deliberate massacures.

          • Snake

            Unless you were there you have no clue!

          • eddie47d

            That really doesn’t make much difference in right or wrong but to satisfy your curiosity I was in Nam with the 4th Infantry/52nd artillery(March 1967-May 68). Calley did his dirty deed in Mar 68 and shamed us all.

          • bob wire

            With all respect, that is the way to win wars, Make it horrible as possible. We wasn’t sent to Nam to “win” anything but to secure the peace for free and public elections. That Lt.Calley forgot and tried to win something were indeed unfortunate. This was not the first or only time, but an event that was unable to be covered up or glossed over.

            It’s next to impossible to win any war where you dress as a solider and your foe dresses as civilian and plots ambush. Who works with you at day and comes at you at night. Who kills their own with less concern then you might.

            I would no say we “lost” Nam, ~ it was never ours to loss.

            I was a members of Cambodian invasion force with the 25th. It wasn’t all that much to it really, they faded into the jungle, it was mostly small arms fire, land mines in the road and booby traps. They attempted to slow our advance while others took care of loose ends and made hasty retreat.

            We found concrete sidewalks and even a swimming pool ~ so they had been there awhile and had planed to stay. ~ concrete walk ways is rare in the jungle

            The fact that we were willing to cross into Cambodia and they not sure when, offering us the greatest benefit I suppose, leaving stock piles of munition and gear behind in rapid retreat.

            Pakistan is indeed much like Cambodia in many ways, only made much worse by it’s possessing some 700 nuclear devises and leadership not truly in control of it’s many rural regions. And most of all, this nagging question where does their sympathies truly lie and what feed it? money,faith,extortion?

            A war without unconditional surrender the final solution is not winnable unless men like Lt Calley are given their head to lay waste.

            So ~ containment is the only other option, a political solution, the carrot and stick.

            I have a hard time believing “O” don’t want to or refuses to hear from anyone that has something to offer. ~ He’s never show to be that way before.

          • JC

            eddie47d says:

            May 25, 2011 at 10:10 am

            That really doesn’t make much difference in right or wrong but to satisfy your curiosity I was in Nam with the 4th Infantry/52nd artillery(March 1967-May 68). Calley did his dirty deed in Mar 68 and shamed us all.
            _________________________________________________________________

            Wow eddie, that does come as a surprise.
            Now that it becomes obvious you sold out all sense of being an American to promote communism…I have even less respect for you.
            What the hell happened to you?

          • Mike in MI

            What happened to him?…eddie47d, that is -
            He came to one of those cross-roads in life we all come to at some point. Took the wrong turn.
            Well, I’m surprized, too. Anyway, thanks for serving, Eddie47d. The things we all experienced led to some catastrophic adjustments to personally cataclysmic events. Some just had the drivel we’d already been force fed set like cement. Whatever it was made you go that way…I don’t comprehend. So I’ll cease being so disturbed at some things you say. Youse want safety in the ant colony…..
            No, thanks.

          • Mike in MI

            Hey, texas twin – I think you and Sarah r M. Bachmann should run for POTUS…serious

          • Mike in MI

            OOps – this as supposed to be in th next thread!!!

          • independant thinker

            From everything I have heard and read Lt.Calley took the fall for illegal orders given by his superiors possibly as high as the pentagon. Not defending his actions just noting him being the fall guy once the action became public knowledge.

          • Wayne937

            No, no no, Eddie. Remember, this was not a war. It was a Democratic, police action, nightmare. Lt. Calley should have not been there in the first place. Maybe it should have been you there instead.

          • Larry Owens

            IF you were not in vietnam day after day grinding it out then PLEASE do not talk about something you have NO knowledge about. young 18-19 year old kids fighting in vietnam and afganistan are trained to KILL that is what War is about. When you start picking and choosing in vietnam it was a good time to Die. I do not condone killing innocent civilians. But try day after day watching your buddies Die then you might understand why some soldiers react harshly.

          • professor

            Hello, the reason for going to war is to “kill the enemy!” If you are not going to do that….stay home.

          • eddie47d

            JC; I stand by what I said so I reckon that makes you a wanna a be cold blooded killer. If so then I have even less respect for you.

          • JC

            eddie47d says:

            May 25, 2011 at 10:15 pm

            JC; I stand by what I said so I reckon that makes you a wanna a be cold blooded killer. If so then I have even less respect for you.
            ________________________________________________________________
            How did you pull that out of what I said you schizophrenic freak?

        • Old Henry

          ralph:

          Are you talking about Afghanistan or the u.S.?

      • Thor

        Ditto, FF…kinda makes you wonder why that ‘open borders’ mentality that applies to illegal aliens doesn’t apply equally to soldiers who merely want to bring mortal skunion upon those who deserve it.

        • DaveH

          Why stop there? Why don’t we all just kill everybody we don’t like? There wouldn’t be many people left if we did.
          It upsets me to no end how quickly people can rationalize murder these days.
          As Hitler said “How fortunate for politicians that people do not think”.
          I think there’s little hope left for our country. Too many people think war is a football game. Too many people think other peoples’ money belongs to them.

          • FreedomFighter

            1. War is not murder.

            2. Islamic Fanatics who’s sole purpose in life is to kill us by starting WWIII bathing the world in Islamic fire cannot be placated nor negoitiated with, extermination is the viable solution, possible its the only solution at this point.

            3. The leader of Iran is the closest thing to Hitler alive today.

            4. We treat war as a world police action, much closer to the football game you describe, if war were the ugly, nasty win or die proposition it should be-last resort, then fewer conflicts would result and more political solutions found.

            If you wage war, wage war to win, destroy the enemy completely, including civialian populations. A sane population will remove the warlords in the east from power, fearing annihilation.

            Obviously police actions by armed forces dont work on fanatics.

            Laus Deo
            Semper Fi

          • Mike in MI

            Right Dave -
            And worse, they Deify a leader who sends people out to do the dirty work on Osama and when it’s done takes most of the credit for himself. He goes out crowing how great his policy in that respect is, but, along with everything else, it’s really a non-sequitur.

            Then to show you how ghoulish we have been made…everybody demands to see the gorey face of death like it’s some sort of trophy. How is that different from dragging the bodies of our soldiers around the city and hanging them up on a bridge?

            don’t know what people think anymore. I fear for this nations sanity.

          • texastwin827

            Dave, on the contary, people do not think war is a “football game”. Many of us have family or friends fighting this so called war, just as we did in Vietnam. I have 5 COMBAT veterans, not REMF’S, in my family, including my deceased husband who was a door gunner with the 191st AHC (aka Bounty Hunters), in Vietnam so I certainly don’t view it as one.

            My youngest daughter (28 yr old) has many high school friends (mostly Marines)who have already done 2 to 4 tours in Iraq or Afghanistan and her boyfriend is a command pilot of an Apache helicopter unit, currently in Afghanistan. Their hands are tied much the same as our Vietnam vets hands were. As my husband was fond of reminding people, “the soldiers in Vietnam NEVER lost a battle…it was the politicans who lost the war”.

            The problem with all wars, since WWII, is that our d**n politicians, most of whom are lawyers and never served one day in the military, dictate how the war is to be fought. IF our men/women are to be committed to a war, then it should be run by the military, not pansey’s in suits and it should be fought with an “unleash our military” attitude. Wars would be much shorter, with less loss of life and limb, for all involved, if they were allowed to do their job without interference.

          • DaveH

            Whether individuals in Mainstreet America commit it, or individuals in Government commit it, don’t kid yourself. Murder is murder. If you kill somebody except in self-defense, it is murder, no matter what your rank in Government.
            You can rationalize it all you want, just like the Liberals rationalize theft.

          • DC/Tex

            Freedom Fighter, I agree. We need Generals with the mentality of G.S. Patton and when the troops go into action only the top military leader is in charge we cannot depend on politicians much less our commander in crime to make any decisions on how to win a war and our so called allies are with us or against us.
            This report also talks about the corrupt governments of Afghanistan and Pakistan question is are they any more corrupt than the Antichrist and his band of Chicago mobsters in the White House.

          • http://gunner689 gunner689

            Great idea Dave. There’s too many people in the World anyhow and most of them hate us because of envy. We either prevail or we come another has-been nation. We can start by letting India wipe out Pakistan and Israel the Palistians.

      • karolyn

        There is no way we can win a war in Afghanistan.

        • Mike in MI

          I agree, we can’t win any more than the Soviets did with our governments rules of engagement. We should gt outnow and keep as many of our kids safe and alive as possible.
          But Obama wn’ do it. He doesn’t want one additional soul on the list of unemployed. Bad [politics

        • Bud Tugly

          You might find the book THE AFGHAN CAMPAIGN, by Pressman interesting. It is a well researched account of Alexander the Great’s army in Afghanistan. It shows that nothing has changed in thousands of years except their religion, now being Muslims (which doesn’t help). The core culture is the same, its attitudes unchanged.

          Selective breeding in horses has led to thoroughbreds, quarter horses, Morgans. etc., all with their own temperments. In dogs we have Labradors, poodles and pit bulls.

          The Afghans have evolved to what they are and are likely to remain so without a vast cultural shift, which is unlikely. You can’t change a pit bull into a poodle.

          • JUKEBOX

            Vietnam and Afghanistan have one thing in common: They train their children from an early age to kill anyone that they disagree with. It is impossible to reverse this indoctrination, no matter how much money you throw at it. The only principle these tribal leaders understand is total anihilation.

        • http://gunner689 gunner689

          can’t or won’t ? there is a big difference. keeping them in the Stone Age is enough for me.

      • EddieW

        They do not want the war won…at any cost!!!! This is a great way to bankrupt and destroy this Republic!!! and it will be done!!! It has to be bankrupted, as the people will not willing accept the one world government, that the CFR with Obozo, our Liar in Chief, with his every cabinet member a member of CFR’s help!!!

        • azwayne

          What we call “war” since before VietNam was only smokescreen for politicians to rip off tax payers. Johnson was total for VietNam, They control rules of engagement, that’s NOT war. Time to stop the charade. It’s nothing but false economy because politicians don’t know and won’t allow a full independent economy. They have no idea what they really want to happen in middle east. they’ve screwed it up continuously before, check the military industrial complex and check all your richest in united states and friends.;If we spent ha;f of what we throw away in military we could have best of everything. Politicians won’t let the control get out of their hands. They play around with meaning of war who and where we should be,we keep building aircraft, vehicles, equipment good for nothing else but as long as they have us convinced it’s for our poor soldiers no limits. Federal government only job and duty, protect United States, ONLY.. We have no use of spending 1/4 on defense of what we are. It’s for the money making by politicians.

      • Timothy May

        Right on, FF. The U.S. is very good at winning wars…when our troops are ‘allowed’ to win. Unfortunately, we are even better at losing the peace, which is why, if you paid attention to the words of the (late) Charlie Wilson, had we done what we should have done when the doing was easy both politically and fiscally, we would not be in Afghanistan today. As for the claim that LBJ thought Vietnam was a hopless cause, he under-estimated our troops. We had that war won after the Tet Offensive in 1968 for having all but obliterated the NVA forces, about 70K+ NVA troops wiped out at a cost to us of somewhere between 5K-8K casualties; it is a historical fact that NVA General Vo Giap was sitting around a table discussing with his staff how to approach the Americans to surrender when he heard Walter Cronkite solemnly intone with lies and half-truths that (I will try to get close to the quote) “the Tet Offensive is conclusive proof that America can never win the war”. General Giap was stunned. He looked around the table and said to his staff, “We’ve won. It’s only a matter of time.”
        Truman started this in Korea, fighting not to win. That war was won when the Chinese troops, according to a plan that had been in the works for some time, rolled in and escalated the war. What did we do? We acted like we were were sorry to have to fight the Chinese, and signed a “truce” that is still in effect 54 years later.
        As for the war in Afghanistan, that is about Pakistan. The original idea was to disallow the use of Afghanistan as a “Cambodia” to the Taliban and AlQaida in their pursuit of obtaining the nuclear prize that would shift the balance of world power so far out of kilter it might never recover. We had, in fact, done that in 2001 at almost no cost, no regular troops committed on the ground to fight another long, expensive assymmetric conflict far from our shores. We had that war won!…in 2001!…and we gave the country away. Of course the enemies of Pakistan and the U.S. and the West operating inside Pakistan politically as well as militarily are going to cause trouble. Duh. If and when Pakistan decides to eliminate its enemies from within, like our nation needs to do, then the U.S. and Pakistan will have no trouble with the original ‘hammer-and-anvil’ plan, and that war will be done.
        As for commenting on corruption in high levels of the Pakistan government, this is laughable. This is the pot calling the kettle black…our American president would not last for one day at the helm in Pakistan.

        • JUKEBOX

          He wouldn’t last more than a week in any of the Arab countries.

        • http://gunner689 gunner689

          Actually, they would welcome him home. He’s obviously one of them.

        • http://certus-certus.blogspot.com Raymond Harbin

          THE DISTINGUISHED, AWESOME,
          VENERABLE, COOL, GROOVY
          NEATO . HIGH POTENTATE AND
          HONORABLE PRESIDENT OF PAKISTAN
          ASIF ALI ZARDAN
          OR CURRENT CASTLE OCCUPANT

          DEAR PRESIDENT ZARDAN

          AS YOU CAN SEE BY THE LETTERHEAD, I AM CONGRESSMAN, WILLIAM HICKOK , CHAIRMAN, HOUSE SUBCOMMITTEE ON APPROPRIATIONS. UNDER OUR AUTHORITY OUR WORKING, TAX PAYING PEOPLE’S MONEY IS MADE AVAILABLE FOR CONGRESSIONALLY APPROVED GOVERNMENTAL EXPENDITURES AND WORTHY PROGRAMS AND PROJECTS. WE HAVE YOUR REQUEST FOR TEN BILLION DOLLARS IN AID TO PAKISTAN FOR THE CURRENT YEAR. ALI, (YOU DON’T MIND A LITTLE INFORMALITY, DO YOU?) YOUR LETTER ASKS THAT IT BE DELIVERED IN CASH, IN $100.00 BILLS. YOU SAY THAT YOU DO NOT WANT A CHECK, AS YOU HARBOR MINOR CONCERNS ABOUT OUR BANK BALANCE, AND YOU WOULD LOATHE TO SEND US A $5,000,000 DEBIT CHARGE, IF THE CHECK BOUNCED, AND RETURNED BY OUR BANK.

          ALI, WE HAVE A PROBLEM– AND WHEN WE HAVE A PROBLEM–YOU HAVE A PROBLEM. WE WILL NOT OPERATE AS THE FORMER ADMINISTRATION; WE WILL VIEW OUR DOLLARS AS THE DESERVED RESULT OF OUR HARD WORKING TAX PAYERS; AND VIEW EVERY FEDERAL EXPENDITURE AS A GREASY HAND, THRUST IN TO OUR CITIZENS POCKETS– AND, AS THESE POCKETS ARE OUR ONLY SOURCE OF THAT AMERICAN ELEMENT FOR WHICH YOU AND YOUR NEIGHBORS EVINCE PERPETUAL LUST — WE CANNOT, AND WILL NOT, ALLOW THE PEOPLE’S MONEY TO BECOME THE POSSESSIONS OF THOSE WHO SMILE AT OUR FACES, BUT CAST CURSES AT OUR BACKS. TO WIT:

          WE HAVE INFORMATION THAT CONVINCES US THAT YOU WERE PLAYING FOOTSY WITH BIN LADEN, RIGHT UP TO THE HOUR THAT OUR SUPERB MILITARY UNIT OFFED HIM, 18 MONTHS BACK– AND BIN LADEN, AT THAT VERY TIME WAS HIDING WITHIN A STONE’S THROW OF ONE OF YOUR MILITARY POSTS– WHERE IT IS SAID THAT YOUR COMMANDING OFFICERS INVITED BIN TO YOUR BASE FOR BEER, PORN AND POKER EVERY MONDAY NIGHT- – WHEN MONDAY NIGHT FOOTBALL WAS OFF SEASON. WE HERE, AT THE NEW SUBCOMMITTEE– DEPARTING FROM THE PAST– NOW LOOK DOWN (WAY DOWN) ON HANDOUTS OR EVEN LOANS TO SLEAZY , UNTRUSTWORTHY, FOREIGN ASSOCIATES. WE BELIEVE A BOUGHT FRIEND WILL FORSAKE US FOR TEN DOLLARS MORE FROM OUR ENEMY. IN THE MID -EAST WE HAVE, AT GREAT EXPENSE, LEARNED THAT THE ENEMY OF MY ENEMY, IS STILL MY ENEMY.

          AS YOU WILL SEE MORE VIVIDLY AS TIME EVOLVES, WE HAVE UNDERGONE MUCH FUNDAMENTAL CHANGE. WE FEEL THAT YOUR PLAYING FOOTSY WITH THE NOW, WHACKED AND DEPARTED BIN LADEN; YOUR RECENT HUG FEST WITH THE COMMIE CHINESE; AND YOUR OPEN ARMED, DALLYING, AND REGAL HOSPITALITY WITH TERRORISTS– THESE PERVERSIONS OF FRIENDSHIP ACCRETE HEAVILY ON OUR PATIENCE, PUTTING US IN NO MOOD TO GIVE YOU ONE DAMNED COPPER PENNY, UNTIL YOU SCRAPE EVERY SMELLY PILE OF THESE BARBARIC, TERRORIST ENEMIES OF OUR NATION, FROM THE SURFACE OF YOUR COUNTRY’S SOIL. UNTIL THEN– YOU NEED MONEY? CALL AL QAEDA OR TRY THE COMMIES.

          ARE WE WORRIED ABOUT OUR OIL SUPPLY??? OH, YOU WISH! FORGITABOUTIT! WE HAVE TOLD THE GREENIES TO CLAM UP OR MOVE TO VENEZUELA, NORTH KOREA OR CUBA– WE ARE NOT GOING TO ALLOW THIS KNOW-NOTHING, NOISY, WILD-EYED, ELITIST, RADICAL MINORITY TO PUSH THIS REPUBLIC INTO A GRAVE, STARVED BY LACK OF ENERGY RESOURCES! RIGHT NOW, AS WE WRITE, WE ARE DEVELOPING OUR HUGE RESERVES OF OIL, GAS, AND COAL, (THE LATTER, THE WORLD’S LARGEST PROVEN RESERVES) ENOUGH AT, MINIMUM, TO LAST AMERICA FOR 350 YEARS, ONE-THIRD OF A MILLENNIUM– ADEQUATE TIME TO DEVELOP A ZILLION, CHEAPER VERSIONS OF SOLAR, SUPER-SAFE NUCLEAR AND OTHER ALTERNATIVES.

          THANK YOU FOR BEING THE SQUEEZE THAT YOU ARE– YOUR, RESULTANT FACE SLAPS HELPED US WAKE UP AND STOP KICKING THE CAN DOWN THE ROAD; ADDITIONALLY, YOUR PENCHANT FOR WANTONESS, PROMPTED US TO PROCLAIM TO ALL MID-EAST NATIONS THAT WE HAVE NO PLANS TO BUY ANY FOREIGN OIL EXCEPT CANADIAN. BECAUSE THE UNITED STATES IS THE WORLD’S LARGEST OIL CONSUMER , WHEN WE WITHDRAW FROM THE WORLD MARKET– THE WORLD’S MARKET PRICE WILL DROP PRECIPITOUSLY. THE STATE OF ISRAEL WILL BE OUR ONLY BUY/SELL MID-EAST AGENT. YOU WANT OUR BUSINESS? MAKE PEACE WITH ISRAEL! SHOW NO MORE HATE– OPEN YOUR EYES AND NOW SEE: HOW YOUR STAR ENEMY CAN BECOME YOUR DEAREST AND MOST VALUED ($$) FRIEND. FOR ALL ENERGY ISSUES: PLEASE- CALL ISRAEL–AMERICA’S ONLY BUSINESS REPRESENTATIVE IN THE MID-EAST. WE WILL FORWARD THEIR 800 NUMBERS IN HAIFA, TEL AVIV AND JERUSALEM . GET USE TO IT.

          ALI, I’M VERY SAD TO THROW THIS BAD NEWS ON YOU ALL AT ONCE..
          (Tee, he, he –. It feels so good, I can hardly stand it !! )

          CONGRESSMAN WILD BILL HICKOK
          NEW MONEY MASTER U.S.TREASURY

      • Mary

        You’re so right. War is a business. US can win a war in two days max. Israel won in 6 days one to three of his neighbors enemies. That tells a lot.

    • Wayne937

      Giving billion of dollars to Pakistan, and to other Muslim nations is why the social socurity recipients did not see any increases in their pay for the last tw years. I don’t see how any one on SS could vote for Obamanuts.

      • JUKEBOX

        In the third year of Social Security “CUTS”, I encourage everyone to vote for ABBO, Any Body But Obama.

      • http://gunner689 gunner689

        There’s a sucker born every minute.

  • s c

    Victory? Herr Obummer’s “victory” has NOTHING to do with Afghanistan, people. His “victory” deals strictly with a twisted combination of naive, stupid and otherwise braindead people who VOTED for him. Get that point straight, or you’ll always be behind the learning curve in dealing with Herr obummer and his plastic, designer administration.
    Whateever else he is, he’s NO C-in-C, he’s NO leader, he’s without character, and he’s willing to do work for ANYONE who will get him fame and fortune. He’s a classic poser. He’s a willing puppet. He’s a theoretician who probably never had both feet in the real world (and never will). GOT IT?

    • SMSgt Z retired Nam 68

      Get a life

      • http://none ralph herman

        Sarge he is brain dead and cannot recall how the cost of living went up and retirement funds went down,for 7 and 1/2 years.I salute you Sarge.

        • DaveH

          You will get your memories soon. With the trememdous increase in the money supply, people on fixed incomes are going to suffer greatly. Government is on track to confiscate our savings with their created inflation, and our Social Security with their misleading inflation statistics. They will continue to claim inflation rates much lower than actual, while the seniors on Social Security struggle to live decent lives in the face of ever-increasing prices.
          Meanwhile the ignorant Liberal legions will still be blaming Bush instead of opening their eyes to reality.
          For those with at least half-a-brain:
          http://mises.org/daily/5223/Charting-the-Course-to-7-Gas

          • s c

            DaveH, it is a sad fact of life that some people can’t admit they made a mistake in voting for a non-academic dingbat. Granted, when the “best” you can get is a toss-up between McHorse’s Ass and Herr Obummer, you’re screwed.
            However, if those people don’t have a functioning conscience, it’s THEIR problem. I will not be a party to the belief that a politician who combines socialism, communism, fascism and any other ism that’s convenient is an “asset,” all they have to do is look into a mirror and see who created the problem. Screw ‘em.

        • JUKEBOX

          When the American people are supporting the man/child for his every need and desire, he doesn’t give a damn if the cost of living increases 500% in one year.

      • http://gunner689 gunner689

        Sgt. If you can’t see the writing on the walls you must have lost your brain in the rice paddies.

    • http://naver samurai

      I agree. Keep up the good fight, fellow patriot. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

    • JC

      Obama is all of that and worse.

    • DC/Tex

      I agree with all you say except obama (no capitol letter to start this name) is a great C in C (comander n crime)

    • http://certus-certus.blogspot.com Raymond Harbin

      EXCELLENT ANALYSIS SC– PEOPLE IN ANY AREA OF THE CITIZENRY, WHO STILL GIVE A RAT’S ASS ABOUT SALVAGING SOME REMNANTS OF THIS REPUBLIC, NEEDS TO START A WRECKING BALL ROLLING IN THE DIRECTION OF DC CALLED “THE IMPEACHMENT PARTY WRECKING BALL.” THE METAPHOR MAY BE FUNNY, BUT SPIRIT IS NOT– AND SALVAGING “REMNANTS OF OUR REPUBLIC” IS CORRECT WAY TO PHRASE IT BECAUSE SO MUCH OF WHAT THIS NATION WAS– NO LONGER IS. THE PEOPLE OF AMERICA HAVE BEEN VICTIMIZED NOT BY A REPULSIVE TRIBE OF BAD, INCOMPETENT, UNTRUSTWORTHY,SELF-CENTERED POLITICIANS– THESE ARE ON US AND IN OUR FACE EVERY TIME AMERICA IS PUT UPON BY A DEMOCRAT UPRISING– WHAT HAS WARRED ON AMERICA IS A GANG OF CRIMINAL MARXIAN HOODLUMS WHO, LIKE THE OLD ADAGE: “BULLS IN A CHINA SHOP, WHATEVER THEY DON’T BREAK, THEY DEFECATE ON.” EVEN IF THEY ARE THROWN OUT IN 2012, I FULLY EXPECT TO FIND COVERT THEFT, AND CRIMINAL CHANGES, LIKE THE $600,000,000.00 THE LARCENOUS FRAUDS STOLE FROM THE MEDICARE BUDGET TO COVER THEIR ENDLESS LIES ON OBAMACARE COST PROJECTIONS. IT MAY REQUIRE THE WHOLE FOUR YEAR TERM TO CLEAN UP THE MESS THESE WRETCHES LEAVE.

  • DMS

    You mean the founding fathers were correct in writing a SUPREME Law – the Constitution – that made it illegal to become entangled in undeclared wars in countries that have nothing to do with war against the US?

    • DaveH

      Laws? What laws? They don’t need no dam laws!

      • Mike in MI

        DaveH -
        I do believe you are right. I think they, further, see themselves as in some sort of glorious anarchists’ role which by way of the survival-of-the-fittest law of the jungle is going to evolve a “new and better” brand of humanity. The eletists above Obama must feel pretty certain that because they are the head dogs now they will continue to be great after they rid themselves of the riff-raff.
        Actually, (if that happens) they will suddenly become “average” in a world they can not comprehend because they have never experienced the real, natural world. That world runs itself according to its own rules like we see in the Mid-west right now where a heavy winter, sudden run-off, heavy rains, floods, tornadoes and unfamiliar destruction quickly unveil for us what a bunch of weak puppies we are.

        What if,…not expecting, just what if…Yellowstone blows its crown, all the flooding loosens the New Madrid Fault or hurricanes come or the Canary Islands blow and send the East Coast a tsunami? What if the rest of the bees suddenly disappear and nothing gets pollinated and all of us are foraging for food at once?

        I’ve often wondered what it’s like to think you’re “top-dog” and your pack disappears?

    • JC

      Gee, haven’t you heard?

      The Constitution is “antiquated”
      The Constitution is a “living document”
      The Constitution must be “interpreted”.

      And the prize winner from GWB:

      “The Constitution is just a damned piece of paper”

      End the Fed, Restore the Constitution….NOW!

      • Al Sieber

        Right on JC!!

      • BrotherPatriot

        Here, Here!!!

    • JUKEBOX

      He probably was in a crack house somewhere with that nose full of cocaine, when Russia was getting their ass whipped in Afghanistan.

  • Donald

    Myers, with whom I usully disagree, is right on the money on this.

  • Bitter Libertarian

    http://whiskeyandgunpowder.com/libertarianism-vs-statism/
    Excellent Article!

    “It is how libertarians view freedom that befuddles and confuses, and sometimes even angers, American statists. They’re simply unable to comprehend how libertarians are able to honestly believe that Americans are not free. That’s because in the minds of American statists, it’s obvious that Americans are free. Everyone knows that the United States is a free country.

    The reason for this phenomenon is, again, that, while all of us are living within a statist box, most Americans have not been able to break out of the box, mentally speaking, and question and challenge the legitimacy of the statist box itself. Undoubtedly, that is in large part because of the powerful indoctrination that takes place in people’s formative years — a period in which their minds are molded so that they believe that the welfare state is, in fact, freedom. Thus, when a statist encounters a libertarian, who wants to bring freedom to America, the statist becomes confused, befuddled, and even angry because in his mind he’s already free, thanks to the welfare state.”

    Yes, in principal the article is very relevent to these decade long wars.

    • DaveH

      It’s important to note that while we’re against the Government forcing people to contribute to a Social Security program, we are NOT in favor of stiffing those who have already had their money confiscated forcibly by Government. If we got all the Immoral and Unconstitutional Government programs stopped, they could easily pay back the money that has been stolen for years from American workers. That would include selling much of the 30% of our land that the Government owns to meet the Social Security obligations to those who had no choice in the matter.

      • Bitter Libertarian

        Agreed..there would HAVE to be a Transition.

      • DC/Tex

        The Government has borrowed from SS and never paid it back, given it to dope heads to buy more drugs and is run by a bunch of rocks.
        In my small family, my dad died at 63 my brother at 49, they both worked all their life and paid SS, what happened to that money? I also disagree that SS is called an entitlement I paid SS for 43 plus years, that is my money.

        • JC

          That is your money, it always was.

  • http://www.reformdc.com nax777

    Well…yea they are comming here with visa essued by the USA.

    The US reached a zero population growth in the mid 80’s our leaders increased their yearly appetite for immigration. The legal yearly immigration rate went from 100,000 to 1,000,000. From the years 2000 to 2010 our leader’s yearly appetite for legal immigration grew to 3,000,000. At present levels the US population will swell another 130 million to 442 million by 2040! This is a very conservative estimate. US immigration rate is the sole reason for overpopulation in the US today and tomorrow!

    It is irrational to think that any nation can save more than a hand full of people from overpopulated poorer nation. Especially when most refuse to change their life style and blame the Jones’s for their plight.
    It is irrational to call mom a Nazi A. hole for giving people a ride back home to keep her home from overpopulation. It is irrational to think that any single payer social program will work best. It is irrational to think that nations can tax its way out of poverty. It is irrational to believe that a power convinced that you have nowhere else to go will do your biding.

    No one is going to stand in their way the template to convince people that a rational person is a very sick or stupid SOB must be removed first. And only you can remove yours.

    People will not take in grandma, or their disabled neighbor long enough to break the social network of chains that separate us. It does not have to come to that, yet! The working class can be forced to plan for their life without a single payer plan. We must meet with our fellow citizens, listen and share ideas.

    A true Conservative and a true Liberal agree on one thing though for different reasons. Any single payer social program is a nutty idea! Now each believes that it’s not so nutty as long as their side is managing it.

    We can destroy the power by replacing them with citizens that can be immediately removed by citizens should they grow a greedy bone and never serve for a life time. We must take control ourselves. Please join with us at Goooh.com you might be able to click on my name. This will take you to my link page that links to Goooh.com, NumbersUSA.com and SBA-list.org.

    P.S. Have you heard of “you cut” @ http://majorityleader.gov/YouCut/

  • http://aol.com Tony Rozycki

    Agree. Bin Laden’s death is probably our only opportunity to claim victory & get out (but keep our big guns within range in safe locations).

  • Insurgent

    We need to bring all troops home to eradicate the Muslim terriots from this country and round up all the illegals and send them home.
    We need to police our borders and secure this country for the American taxpayers. “Charity begins at home.”
    If this country is not healthy, there is no way we can help anyone else. We need to purge Washington DC of the 545 greedy ba$tard$ that are ruining this country.
    We need term limits for all three branches of the federal gubmint !!!

    • Robin from Arcadia, IN

      Insurgent… I like your plan better than the plans that Washington has! Bring the troops home. Clean up America first. Secure the boarders!

      • Mike in MI

        Robin – Not much hope of that happening. Obama already has to wiggle-and-flop, squizzle and sqweeze the numbers in order to prevaricate the unemployment figures down to make it even look like he’s keeping their growth close to incalcuable.

        • JUKEBOX

          Obama is too stupid to realize how many Muslim terrorists are coming through our porous Southern border.

          • Mike in MI

            Jukebox -
            I think he does know. Ad not only that but he gets a daily brieig to get their numbers, names and destinations. Obama’s got various Cabinet agencies selling assault weapons and explosives to somebody who takes them to Mexico to be brought back into the U. S. A. by drug cartel goons.
            So, what’s going to happen when the muscle’ems reach saturation levels where O’BathHouseBumBlaster wants them?

    • Wayne937

      Great post, Insurent. I would definately go along with this.

    • DC/Tex

      Yes on term limits on all levels of government and Pass The Fair Tax!!!

  • samuel welsh

    americans need to connect to Afgainastain on a cutural level
    and an aid level

    • Nadzieja Batki

      What do you mean?

    • bob wire

      Yea , right Samuel, you go first.

    • JC

      Yah! Konnect vis zem on a kultural level” “Und zen on to ze next place…und ze next vun…until ve haff “konnected” vis zem all! singing Zeig Heil! ;)

      “America” needs to bring its best and bravest home, stop supporting the planet and clean up its own back yard.

      • Mike in MI

        Ooch, da, JZ, Yue tellem! zie sprach recht unt guter azz kin bee.
        Vee awlreddy tride dat Konnect’n’ und aid’n. Und nauw vee got dee AIDz in dee unterparten.

    • Michael J.

      samuel welsh,
      You need to connect with spell check.
      Sorry, couldn’t help myself.

      • JUKEBOX

        To connect with them on a cultural level, Obama should send a contingency of students from our segregated schools, led by his friend Common. That would really impress those tribesmen in the Khyber Pass.

    • http://gunner689 gunner689

      How do you culturally connect with a caveman? The only aid they want is more ammo to kill each other and fertilizer for their poppy fields.

  • Janice Fortin

    Where’s the beef? America has been in Afghanistan and Iraq long enough to succeed. If I were a military man, I would see nothing but a country with the military hands tied against success. Are we in there to bash down the Taliban or to train the Pakistani military?
    COME HOME, ALL YOU HEROES. WE LOVE AND APPRECIATE THE UNMATCHWED AMERICAN MILITARY. Now it is time to put your muscle to protect the homeland. Thousands of unidentified criminals are pouring over our borders. Supposedly, we had the $ for the “the wall”. Wot a damn chuckle that was….STEPS built on the mexican side. Oh heavens don’t put electric wire at the top, we wouldn’t want to miss out on any lovely beheading drug cartel entering poor AZ! And those who entered as children, prize them above all….the very folks who planned havoc at For Dix were in the benevolent USA since childhood.
    How many 9-11 hijackers HAD A COLLEGE DEGREE IN USA? AMERICA PAID FOR THE TRAINING AND THE EDUCATION OF THE MAN RESPONSIBLE FOR THE MASSACRE AT FORT HOOD. and this doesn’t touch the rest of the planners of evil in USA. Now, folks, don’t add 2 and 2, and for CRIME’S sake, don’t go jumping to conclusions, you might come up with a solution that requires CHANGE ONE HELL OF A LOT DIFFERENT THAN THIS
    “PRESIDENT” HAS IN MIND. He has made it “stylish” to be antiAmerican. human traffickers get $7,000 to $30,000 HEAD to smuggle them into USA? For food? Not always. THEY ESCAPE COMMUNISM AND MARXISM AND DEPLORABLE SHARIA LAW IN THEIR COUNTRIES! Females in middle eastern countries are treated with unbelievable cruelty. HOW DARE ANYONE MENTION TO INSTALL SUCH UNCIVILILIZED EXISTANCE IN USA.
    If they wanted that, they wouldn’t be here! America has spent more than enough $ and lives in Afghanistan and Iraq. What wasn’t achieved in all these yrs is mostly due to America’s appeasing. Time to hang it up. IT IS NOT AMERICA’S LOSS BUT THEIRS. THE HOMELAND NEEDS MILITARY ON OUR OWN BORDERS. WHEN A NEW PRESIDENT FINALLY GETS IN THERE, HE/SHE WILL SEE TO IT~! SAVE AMERICA!

    • Cawmun Cents

      Personally I have always been a”wheres the beer guy”because you drink beer after the job is done and you are home relaxing.Either let us soundly defeat our enemies using whatever means necessary Mr. President(former or current doesnt matter to me)or let our troops come home.

      • JUKEBOX

        He’d rather go to Ireland and drink beer with them, rather than real heroic Americans.

  • Thor

    Tony R., I’d agree from a political standpoint, but the issue is more strategic than political. Bin Laden is a nice trophy but the real fight lay between Saddam and Osama. Back to map reading 101…we put an army in Iraq and an army in Afghanistan, not merely to get Bin Laden, but to put the squeeze on Ahmadinejad and his clergyman oligarchy. We have known since 1983 (Actually,since the return of the Ayatollah Khomeini)that strategic level terrorism has been coordinated from Tehran (Target America. Yossef Bodansky, 1993). Seems like we ought to do something about that before we leave. Meanwhile, the ‘horns of the bull await.’

    • eddie47d

      “To put the squeeze on Iran” is another way of saying let’s start another war. Pakistan is far more dangerous than Iran (just ask India).We can’t pacify them and they keep the Afghan War going by sabotaging our supply lines. Then they supply the Taliban with weapons and recruits. Pakistan takes our money and leans towards China so how is that helping us? Iran leans towards Russia and could care less what we think.Karzai has been a stooge from day one and his brother is a drug dealer.There are positive improvements in Afghanistan with roads and education but if the government doesn’t change it’s bad habits then where is the Democracy? Because of Karzai’s government we could lose everything in a blink of an eye.

      • Michael J.

        eddie47d said:
        “Pakistan takes our money and leans towards China so how is that helping us?”

        True enough, but this time it’s Obama that nudged them towards China, or was that Bush’s fault too?

        • eddie47d

          Don’t kid yourself they have been pals with China for a long time and even North Korea.

    • Mike in MI

      Thor -
      Maybe you can throw thunderbolts and the thunderbutts can print money. But, nobody can print wealth. There have been many a king that went down and took his kindom with him because he thought he could wage a war without sufficient arms or wages or supplies or support. “Little King” Napoleon comes to mind.
      Bad leadership is another reason kingdoms have gone the way of the land of Babylon. America comes to mind.

  • Cashpockets

    General Mac Arthur said during the war in Korea;
    “There is no substitute for total victory”
    He was right and we haven’t had a total victory since WWII

    Getting into all these non winnable wars in foreign countries is very expensive, unnecessary, kills so many of our soldiers in vain and weakens our nation.

    Wouldn’t it be great if Ron Paul could actually become the President of this country?

    • Bert Cundle

      Victory from W.W.II??? Yea… Japan Got our Industral!

      • Bert Cundle

        China got our World Trade empire.

        • Bert Cundle

          Our Voting Balots are in ALL LANGUAGES…

          • Bert Cundle

            We are 15 T. in debt… to who & for What?

          • Bert Cundle

            We are 15 T. in debt… To who & Why?

      • DaveH

        World War II was the typical military statist scam. We lost over 400 thousand American lives in that war and for what? Did we free Europe? Sure if you can call it ‘Freeing’ them when millions of civilian lives were lost, and then afterwards many of the countries were delivered from one Despotic regime to another Despotic regime.

        We need to butt out of other countries’ business and mind our own which we have severely neglected for over a century.

        • bob wire

          dave ~ how can you be so blind to the reasons why history is what it is.

          Butt out? Turn a blind eye? There comes a time to fight, a time to die for ideas, for country, for fairness, a time to fight for those that can’t.

          These libertarian notions of the self sufficient individualist and personal freedom will never shape the world as you seem to believe they will.

          You or I are really not that damn important in the grand scheme of history.

          You are your brother keeper ` like it or not, you can opt out if you wish and I suppose that is what you are trying to do with such talk.

          You scoff at social program that your very existence in a product of.

          Without the social underpinning presently in place today ~ many of us would not be in warm house a pissing and moaning about how bad things are.

          No man is an island unto himself Dave.

          You don’t seem to have an allegiance to anyone or anything but “self” ~ straight out of some Ayn Rand novel.

          Please tell me that I am wrong.

          • DaveH

            Okay,
            You’re wrong, Bob, in so many ways.
            My eyes are wide open to the fact that most people can rationalize any amount of immorality if they think it will better feather their nest.
            I am fighting, Bob, against wrong-headed thinking.
            Fairness? Coming from a Liberal who thinks fair means taking the hard-earned money of others? If you want their money, try acquiring it the moral way — earn it from them with your labor or some other voluntary exchange.
            Whether our Libertarian ideas are accepted or not, we will continue to try to educate ignorant people like yourself who push for a system that has failed throughout the world. Experience proves the agenda you advocate is bankrupt, yet you still embrace it.
            And please, save your BS about my being a product of social programs for your ignorant Liberal friends who buy such nonsense.
            And listen to you, a selfish Liberal who wants to take forcibly what others have worked for, calling me selfish. Unbelievable.
            Liberals have big mouths, but when it comes to putting their money where their mouth is, they silently slink away.

          • Mike in MI

            Bob wire, You’ve got it all wrong about Ayn Rand.
            She was an immigrant from the Soviet Empire, a place led by people you could easily agree with.
            She understood principle. Some people have called her an advocate of “Enlightened Self-interest”. She put into novel form a more modern application of things stated in The Declaration of Independence and Bill of Rights, Bible, Federalist Papers and a few things your statements indicate you like to live under…but, want no part of.
            Those documents that cause in you revulsion are filled with principles.
            I don’t care what you mentaly ascribe to and tout yourself to be your posts have shown YOUR “principles” are just sayings and doctrines of false prophets…and worse.

          • bob wire

            “My eyes are wide open to the fact that most people can rationalize any amount of immorality if they think it will better feather their nest.”( Well, you will be judged as you judge Dave ~ and what goes around, comes around.)

            “I am fighting, Bob, against wrong-headed thinking.”

            ( you wouldn’t enjoy it as much as you think you might. As you take what you now have for granted, knowing no different.)

            “Fairness? Coming from a Liberal who thinks fair means taking the hard-earned money of others? If you want their money, try acquiring it the moral way — earn it from them with your labor or some other voluntary exchange.”

            (First I’m not a Liberal, ~ and what has been taken from you Dave that hasn’t been taken from me? How is it that you seem to think you money comes to you differently then it does me? That mine is somehow easier then yours to acquire, or that you pay taxes that I don’t? That’s simple not true!)~

            (I have been self-employed since 79 ~ never filed for unemployment or government grants of any form in my life. ~ No subsidies, not No minority status , no 1/8th American Indian. It’s been a long road and I’ve tasted dirt enough to know what it takes to stay on my feet.

            I did take advantage of the GI bill and advance my education and I confess, I bought a home on the GI bill. That’s the extent of any special entitlement that I’ve taken advantage of. Do you begrudge me for that?

            At 63, I’ve yet to file for SS. of which I have contributed something to the tune of $150,000.000. Would you begrudge me if I attempted to claim some of my own money back?)

            “Whether our Libertarian ideas are accepted or not, we will continue to try to educate ignorant people like yourself who push for a system that has failed throughout the world.” ;

            (Failed? We are experiencing 30 years of GOP meddling and leadership, a small block of history) So where in history has these Libertarian ideas that you champion worked so well since we quite living in caves? I know of none! Rome? )

            “Experience proves the agenda you advocate is bankrupt, yet you still embrace it.” (Dave , I don’t embrace it ~ I contend with it and defend it from hawkish, selfish greedy people and it’s not easy)

            “And please, save your BS about my being a product of social programs for your ignorant Liberal friends who buy such nonsense.” *(So you or your family has never lived in a GI home, drawn unemployment, worked at a government or government subsidized job,accepted food stamps, housing subsidies, school grant, head start, affirmative action program, government assisted medical care, I know you didn’t just one day fall from the sky Dave. )

            And listen to you, a selfish Liberal who wants to take forcibly what others have worked for, calling me selfish. Unbelievable.
            (again, I say, what has been taken from you that wasn’t taken for me? I just not carrying on like a wounded animal about it)

            Liberals have big mouths, but when it comes to putting their money where their mouth is, they silently slink away.

            (That is completely unworthy a comment, it is not I that “howls” and I assure you, I’m not a Liberal, I just don’t agree with you. I accept the fact I owe a debit payed by those that came before and you see “no commitment or debit” to society like a child that would reject the debit to ones mother )

          • bob wire

            and MIke, I’ve read all of Ayn Rand’s novels and was enamored and fascinated by her writing skills, her views of “self” and the world around her. Her unique ability to validate and justify motives and actions.

            No, ~ after years of deliberation, I’m not wrong about Any Rands work. She was in a league of her own, this is true. Ayn Rand high appeal is due too her writing skills and the ability to transfer the feeling of being caught up in being a victim, something everyone has felt at one point it time.

            Chances are both you and Dave and many others here feel as if they are “Victims” and this is where they dwell. They adapt and maintain the posture of a “Victim” If you will read Dave posting, can you not he him cry out as a victim?

            That I am a victim of the same pain seems to matter little. That I don’t agree with Dave makes me the one that’s caused his pain. Again just another transfer of guilt.

            Ayn Rand refused to grow up and accept her lot in life, she was always a victim of someone foul deeds in a ever changing shifting sea of torment. She was indeed a victim of birth and her times and she did a wonderful job of offering us a view of what her early childhood was like and the thought proceed that when though her mind to rationalize.

            Now if you can find something that you can use in Rands writing , ~ that’s find and good, she offers you a train load of “feeling”. But being a perpetual victim of life shouldn’t be one of them.

          • JC

            Bob, it was “government” that started the first and second world wars.
            I’d explain it to you, but you seem intelligent enough to do your own homework.
            History is what it is…because it was manipulated by self interested politicians who don’t give a damn about us.
            And your social underpinnings theory is thin at best.
            Were better off governing ourselves under a system of justice and morality.
            Government has very few legitimate functions.

          • bob wire

            Well JC, you are not going to get away from “dominion” of government, no way, no how.

            I seen no need to defend this notion.

            There were war before government ~ The Animal Kingdom that mankind belongs to, is all about conquest, breeding and war.

            So, I’m not sure what point you are attempting to make.

            It’s eat or be eaten , it’s almost impossible to withdraw from this on going process. ~ Maybe one might try ~ turn mountain man, but you would grow tired of that quickly.

          • JC

            Bob, I guess what I’m getting at is that for us to put complete trust in this or any government is entirely foolhardy. Which is why their activities must be limited to a few basic functions as prescribed in our founding documents.
            I won’t bore you with all the reasons I believe this, I’m sure you know what they are.
            As for mountain man, been there done that and never felt freer in my life. I ran a 75 horse outfitting company that did everything from family camping trips to camera safari’s and big game hunts.
            Funniest thing you’ll ever see is 4 or 5 Japanese guys whacked up on scotch playing John Wayne with real (unloaded) 45′s around a campfire at night 50 miles from the nearest pavement. Pretending to have a shootout and falling over dead…in Japanese. Funny guys…

            I had to give it up over a beef with the Feds…not funny guys.

          • bob wire

            Oh I see~ I understand how you feel JC ~ 75 pasture puppies! sounds like a sweet life for sure. It’s a shame it slipped out of your grasp and no doubt you harbor strong feeling about losing a life style.

            I watched a fish & game officer tear up a charter boat Captain licenses once and then impound his 132 ft. boat over a difference of opinion. Put him out of business in 15 seconds, never to commercial fish again.

            I believe I know sort of how you feel, ~ I found my frontier on the southern tip of Texas some years back. I had Mexico and the sea to do as I pleased ~ just respect your neighbors, there were few rules and Port town people are very tolerant of people by nature, everyone is from somewhere else, often running from something.

            Then came 9-11 and everything change, the Fed showed up in force, collage boys dressed up like Ninja Turtles with quad 225 Merc’s on a long Cigarette with huge letters on the side, HOME LAND SECURITY.

            Inside of 3 day ~! they were issuing citations speeding in the bay. What does that have to do with home land security? No one was aware of any speed limits in the bay, it’s a huge bay, no one around for miles. That we could go as fast as they could seemed to piss them off.

            Then came the Gulf Cartel and screwed up Mexico. Mexico was always a trick bag but I could managed the danger but I couldn’t manage that!

            So I’m back home, inland breathing bad air, so bad I can see it and dealing with traffic and people in a big insane hurry. ~ but it’s not so bad ~ I don’t like it that much but accepted it. ~ I make more money here but I’d preferred clean air and peace and liberty I once enjoyed much like yourself.

            But JC ~ you’ve got to let go of yesterday and live today. Make the best of what’s before you. No matter bad you think things are, they can get much worse.

          • http://gunner689 gunner689

            Well said Bob.

          • JC

            Well there you go Bob, we haver more in common than I might have imagined.
            The end result though seems a little different.
            I too prefer to live in the moment and not carry the weight of the past. But its getting worse every time we turn around and increasingly difficult to ignore or rationalize away.
            It’s got to stop.

        • Master Gunny

          We left the engineering of a peace treaty to Georges Clemenceau and David Lloyd George after the Great War. The result was WW II.
          Winston Churchill and FDR made different but equally disasterous mistakes as they carved up Europe in cahoots with Ioseb Besarionis dze Jughashvili AKA Joe Stalin. Dispite Stalin’s pre-war invasion of Finland, his seizure of the Baltic States (Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania), Buhkovinia, and Bessarabia our politcians made agreements with that maniac.
          Truman, spinless politician that he was, also was cowed like a schoolboy by Stalin thus setting the standard for future presidents. Ike did slightly better than most but still failed to deal with a threat so obvious that forgiveness is hard to find.
          The founding fathers made one tragic mistake when writing the constitution: they made no provision to insure that the man who would become the Commander in Chief would have the qualifications to do the job. Expecting any politician, always masters of compromise, intrigue, and duplicity to master a profession that requires honor, integrity and courage is just plain silly.

          • JC

            Further to that, one of my heros, George Patton saw it for what it was at the time. He wanted to re-arm the Germans and go after the Red army right then and there. They shipped him and into obscurity for that.

        • DC/Tex

          Wake up! Hitler was already planning on attacking as Japan was. If we had not went to war when we did we would have had to fight in home town America.

          • JC

            Going to Europe to help was righteous DC Tex.
            But I don’t overlook the long term effects of the Treaty of Versailles that pretty much gauranteed a “second” world war.
            More Political jockeying gone wrong…

      • bob wire

        “Yea… Japan Got our Industrial!” well? ~ I*’ll admit they took delivery of the final product.

        How’s that?

        American experienced an overwhelming windfall post WWll.

        We have been generous because we could afford to be. Supply and demand was in place to create great wealth.

    • http://teamlaw.org/ Jazzabelle

      He has my vote! And unlike the bizarre insinuation in this article that Pakistan isn’t a “real ally” because they objected to our INVASION (“Can you imagine Winston Churchill warning America about coming on British soil to hunt Nazis during World War II? Of course not, but Pakistan is not a real ally.”), Ron Paul makes the sensible comparison: Would we have sent helicopters to bomb bin Laden’s pad if he were hiding out in the middle of London? WITHOUT TELLING THE BRITS WE WERE COMING??

      • texastwin827

        Major difference in Britain and Pakistan. Great Britain has proved, time after time, to be a faithful ally. Pakistan has NOT.

      • http://gunner689 gunner689

        we wouldn’t have had to. the Brits would have taken care of him themselves. Do you know the difference between good and bad or is everything relative in your progressive world ?

    • JUKEBOX

      These wars are a covert way of controlling the population.

  • Bruce Porter Sr

    Ike warned us about the “military-industrial complex”. Looks like he was absolutely correct.
    What was that old saw from Viet Nam? “War is our business and business has been good lately”
    As to winning, according to Gen Giap, the head of the North Vietnamese Army we did defeat him, after TET 68 he had nothing left, but our government made us pull back and allow him to rearm, refit, and retrain.
    Our government also warned him a week prior to every B 52 strike so he could move his troops out of the target area.
    I’d be willing to bet we knew where bin Laden was all along…..just killed him when a political boost was needed.
    BTW, I’m a combat wounded Airborne Ranger.

    • Bert Cundle

      Osoma Bin Laudin: Was & Is A C.I.A. Op. For Bush Sr.!

      • http://naver samurai

        Now you really don’t believe that, do you? FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

        • DaveH

          For those who aren’t aware of our Government’s folly in the mideast:
          http://blog.mises.org/2277/american-spooks-heavy-sleepers/

        • JC

          I don’t know Samurai…the Bush’s and bin Laden’s go way back.
          In fact Osama was known as “the other Bush boy” he spent so much time with them. In fact they are still in business together to this day.
          The Carlyle Group is a munitions distibutor.

          • Al Sieber

            Yeah JC, his CIA name was Tim Osmand, not the musical group.

          • BrotherPatriot

            Confirmed…the Bush’s & Bin Laden were tight. Conspiracy’s stop being conspiracy’s when they are FACTS.

            God Bless.

    • Master Gunny

      Sir,
      With respects, it was that same “military-Industrial Complex” that built the current military to it’s awesome capabilities. The Soviets threw in the towell because they saw more clearly than we did just how out-classed they were.
      The problem is, as you say, with politicians who are neither trained in the arts of war nor have the mental or political discipline to marry together the complex interrelationship of statesmanship and warfighting. In spite of the ineptness of nearly all of presidents our enemies can clearly see that picking a fight with us unlikely to avail them much in the long term. Compare our modern performance with that of the Spanish American war or even our early participation in the Great War and there is no comparison.
      Our war-fighting capability is a mix of American industrial ingenuity, excellent leadership and training, and awesome professionalism. The weak link is, and always has been, the politicians and naives at the State Department.

      • April

        Totally agree!!

      • texastwin827

        No one could have said it any better! Remove the politicians from the formula and you have a military who can make short work of ANY military action!

      • Cawmun Cents

        You said it best…keep politics out of the military.

      • Bud Tugly

        You are absolutely correct.

      • JC

        You point to something very important Gunny.
        Politicians are a very different thing than Statesmen.
        We need to reduce the number of Politicians to right around zero
        and increase the number of Statesmen proportionately.

        • Mike in MI

          JC – It will do absolutey nothing unless and until the beauracracies’ are offices are closed and locked, and the crooks among them put in Jail or graves (jail costs way too much, but once they learn how to collect a check from Obama most of them become dole-r-ous Obamaphiles).

  • H. Kirk Rainer

    Not that this hasn’t been said, but “winning” may not be the objective; rather, the purpose is to maintain a presense in the region–as U.S. infrastructure for other causes…

    The U.S. public is left puzzled because the purpose is not clarified; as in the recent event pertaining to the supposed Bin Laden compound, details are never reported.

  • Frank C.

    The thing is we do not want to leave Afghanistan worse off than when we came. Is it better off now? Are we developing an Afghan army that will be able to keep that country (and our country too) safe and stable from radical, unlawful elements who want undemocratic control? We do not want a country or elements in that country who plan the destruction of the U.S. Allowing Afghanistan to evolve back into a more primitive, “primordial” state than it is now would not, I do not think, serve our purpose. Afghanistan may, basically, be less fundamentally Islamic than Pakistan. A stable Afghanistan may lead to a more stable, with less radical elements, and a more secular Pakistan. I don’t know, I may just be dreaming.

    • DaveH

      If the Afghan people didn’t want the Taliban there, they wouldn’t be there. We need to quit doing the very arrogant business of attempting to impose our life-styles on other countries.
      There’s a show I’ve seen on cable recently that depicts actual actions by a group of American military in Afghanistan. You can see from the Afghan people they encounter that those people do not like us, they fear us. Our soldiers try to curry favor by giving them gifts, and they take them of course, but I doubt seriously that the gifts result in changing their minds about the US.
      Think how we will feel when the UN has troops here watching our every move.

    • ValDM

      You don’y really believe that do you? Afghanistan has been at war for so long it’s bordering on the ludicrous. The U.S. has been there for a lot longer than 10 yrs. Do any of you recall The Russians being there? And we were, TOO. We were there arming them and teaching them how to fight. Now we’re there as their adversary rather than their ally. We need to pull out, and let them become what they will, or will not. All this money & lives wasted; and FOR WHAT?

  • http://YAHOO.COM B.FRANKLIN

    IT’S LIKE FREEDOM FIGHTER SAID. LET THE GENERALS RUN THE WAR NOT THE POLITICANS.WE COULD HAVE WON IN NAM.TO MUCH ASS KISSEN IN WASHINGTON

    • eddie47d

      How about staying out of other peoples civil wars and police actions. Once we step into the muck it becomes ours and the commitment never ceases.

      • Nadzieja Batki

        You have to also know when you messed up royally to stop and get out.
        We are supposedly destroying the rats nests, but why are the contractors going behind our soldiers and rebuilding them.

      • April

        If we’re gonna be SENT to war, then let’s get the job done fast, furious, and efficient, so we can get out of there. Less people would die that way. These panty-lace waisted passifist are more worried about what is politically correct and offending the enemy that they end up aiding in keeping the war going on and on and on etc.

      • JC

        eddie47d says:

        May 25, 2011 at 9:29 am

        How about staying out of other peoples civil wars and police actions. Once we step into the muck it becomes ours and the commitment never ceases.
        __________________________________________________________________

        It’s a blue moon day…eddie, I agree with you.

  • Bert Cundle

    Our First Black President, again… Hell No!!! BUT: Politics is in the Cross Hairs!

  • Jack Urban

    Yes indeed Afghanistan is a lost cause and a sickening lose of American Soldiers. We can never win because of the brain washing Qu’ran Ideology that teaching children at 5 years old that infidels are the enemy of Islam and the only good Infidel is a convert to Islam or a Dead Infidel.
    All you need to do to understand the why of it, is to thoroughly read the book of Hate aka Qu’ran; then Infidels will understand the only way to have peace around the world would be to burn all the Qu’rans in existence and perform Lobotomy’s on all the brain washed Mooslums, then what a peaceful world it would be.

    • DaveH

      We could eliminate all our purported enemies, and the military statists would just invent new enemies to justify their existence.
      It’s all about control of the citizens and enrichment of the Politicians and their buddies.
      Leaders want to feather their own nests and they will do whatever it takes to convince us that we should provide them those feathers.

  • http://aol.com sean murrey

    This is another vietNam we are bleeding ourselves white.

  • Master Gunny

    The real enemy is Islam, no point in playing word games. Since 650 A.D. Islam has been agressive, expansive, and ruthless. Our biggest contribution to turning the GWOT around has nothing to do with bullets, guns, or air strikes. Rather our most effective weapon is the cultural “pollution” that we introduce into Islamic societies every moment of every day that we occupy any piece of soil where Islam predominates (pun intended). The corruption of Sharia law, Muslim cultural values, and “sacred Islamic soil” are precisely the reasons that Islama-terrorists exist in the first place. Rather than driving American influence out of the Middle East (and I’m proud to be a card carrying member of “the Great Satan”) the opposite has happened.
    As the youth of the Middle East see American technology, our toys, and our “perversions” (commonly called freedom here in the West) they are altered. The old mores and customs seem less relevant and the hold of the mullahs, clerics, and tribal leaders is loosened. Each day causes more doubt about the old ways and more questioning about why things shouldn’t change. In addition the Islamic youth are given the bitter lesson that Allah hasn’t done much good for the Taliban or al Queda who die in huge numbers for little or no gain. It’s hard to trust a God who is powerless against laser guided bombs and the finest military machine that has ever walked on the planet. “Patience grasshopper” would be my advise to the pundits, critics, and soothsayers.

    • eddie47d

      That one women in Saudi Arabia is still in jail for driving a car.Even in “advanced” Muslim nations change comes slow.The Democracy movement may bring needed changes or the hammer could come down and make matters worse.

      • Master Gunny

        Mr. Eddie, note the recent news that even the corpulant Saudia princes are starting to worry about the spread of the democracy infection taking hold in their back yard. They have recently started dumping huge piles of cash to their subjects to avoid ervolution. In many ways Islam is it’s own worst enemy because eventually even the most devout begin to doubt and question the ways of their elders. Thanks to the crippliong corruption, soul destroying religious requirements, and exposure to western thought and customs the walls of seculsion and isolation that protected Islamic “culture” is being to crumble.
        The increased violence with which Sharia law is being enforced in so many countries is becuase the mullahs see their grip on the people slipping an force is the only way to stop the rot.

        • http://gunner689 gunner689

          Top; you nailed it. You should be a General.

          Semper Fi

        • Cawmun Cents

          What about the largest population of Islam in Southeast Asia?

  • Tim

    With the term backfilling coming to mind, aid to Pakistan has indirectly funded their nuke program.

    It is a pity that Obama handled the killing of Osama in such a poor manner. Yes they got him but that would have happened sometime down the line. The raid was as politically correct as a B52 carpet bombing Karachi with pork chops. Simpler would have had, possibly under duress, Pakistan do the dirty themselves, show their balls.

    The Pakistan Govt is in a deep hole and they need to retake control of their own country. They are loosing…….

    • eddie47d

      Tim; You made a good point of why didn’t we inform the Pakistani government of Bin Laden’s whereabouts and made them show their loyalty to us by raiding the compound. If they were a true and trusted ally they would have done it but we all know they can’t be trusted.

  • thinking about

    It is not a “win” to have killed bin Laden any more than killing Saddam was a “win”. Big difference is bin Laden ordered the attacks on USA and Saddam fooled many by professing to have WMD’s. The main interest was on “getting Saddam” and not on the target we should have went after first. Big contractors getting big bucks, you bet, and who is one of the contractors, Halliburton which is so very tied to Cheney. There should be some big investigations into following the money with the defence contractors.

  • http://gunner689 gunner689

    There is nothing to gain in Afganistan other than the opportunity to kill terrorists. The country is a third world shit hole and always will be. Their gvt. is corrupt and will fall to the taliban a week after we leave, be that now or ten yrs. from now. As long as the enemy has a safe haven in Pakistan this scenario will never end. An American’s life is not worth a million Muslims. Let them go back to the Middle Ages and if they crawl out of their caves and mud huts to attack America carpet bomb them with B-52s & B-1s. That seems to be all they understand. I would like to see India wipe out Pakistan.

  • http://stanleymuzyk@gmail.com Nutmegger

    The Russians were smart! They found out that they could not win in Aghfanistan — and pulled out!

    Our “Community Organizer President,” isn’t smart enough — to pull our troops out of Aghfanistan, when we still have our military in Iraq — and he dabbles in war activity in Libya, for good measure.

    As a result, we owe billions of dollars to countries throughout the world — and China and Japan — will no longer buy our debt. We went into Iraq — for the oil! But, after many years of war in Iraq, China gets all the oil from this country — and we owe China alone, nearly a trillion dollars, for helping us finance this wasted war effort — losing, or wounding the cream of our brave military men and women, in the process!

    Is United States — just plain stupid — or is there is an intentional effort in this country — to desroy us? “President Barack Obama is not bucking the destruction tide!”

    • eddie47d

      China is slick and it seldom registers on our radar. Do you see them in world conflicts? Hell no! They are positioning themselves all over the world without firing a shot.They are in Africa,South America and the Middle East. While we do the fighting and killing and spend trillions of dollars they waltz in and take over.They win and we lose.

      • Nadzieja Batki

        They are asserting themselves by economics and demographics.

    • Don

      Nutmegger, you are so right, but until the people of this country can see what obama is doing and remove him we will slide down this slippery slope, and soon it will be to late to turn back, just look at the elections in Wisconsin, they still don’t care about this country, all they care about is power, very, very sad !!!

  • http://Google Lloyd Olson

    At the start of the Civil War,some said to Abe, you can’t win. Before
    Pearl Harbor the Brits were telling the USA , get your butt over here or we will all pay for it. Go back and read Myers last report on S.I.L.A.
    then tell me if you want him running the military.You don’t wait for the problem to be on your door step,you stop the problem before you pay dearly for not doing so. Are we always perfect, no, but no feet will be on our soil we don’t permit coming here.

    • JC

      It’s a good sentiment, but it doesn’t justify any of the wars we’re currently in, nor does it explain why our people are overseas when we have an invasion taking place on our southern border.

      Your thoughts?

      • American Patriot 777

        Look up “AGENDA 21″ Look up “NORTH AMERICAN UNION” And, while you are at it. Look up ” EASTER BUNNY SHOT OSAMA BIN LADIN IN THE BRAIN PAN AND DUMPED HIS SORRY ASS IN THE OCEAN TO COVER UP THE LIES”

      • Cawmun Cents

        Until Islam has its version of”protestant revolution”,we will be fighting these types of police actions.There are too many fanatical people and ways of seeing things which culturally fly under the radar.Unseen forces are at work here.While Master Gunny is right about many of the city-fied Muslims seeing the toys that we have and wanting them for their own,he may fail to see the underlying truth about the nature of Islam.The largest population of Islamic people is in Indonesia.Not in the Arabic states,will we find the most fanatical leaders,for these have been there for centuries.But from the Southeast Asian world where our tactics have been observed before will we meet the true Islamic fanaticist.Yes,the Philippines,and Other places in Southeast Asian have yet to be heard from.Then where will the”he who dies with the most toys,wins”frame of mind catch hold.It is already there.So you see that many do not comprehend tha vastness of this condition.Where was ouR illustrious POTUS schooled in a madrs?In Indonesia.Under the radar.Beneath the waves lurks the iceberg which the Titannic of the United States now comes dangerously close to.Do we fail to note that historically when people forget the past,they tend to relive it?The world is watching…..-CC.

  • http://Google Lloyd Olson

    What is wrong with having a little gun fight some where ? How do you get a good football team ? You practice! We are getting very good at what we do some day we will hardly need people. The Seal team did a outstanding job, we do get better don’t we. Do we want war games in down town LA ?
    Not hardly, that is why we stop them before they get here.

    • Nadzieja Batki

      The problems are already here.

    • Don

      Lloyd, maybe you had better look around, seems to me there already here!!!

      • JC

        I heard they’re actually being “bused in” by the ATF in Arizona.
        Or was it…they’re giving them guns to sneak into America with…
        So many rumors I can never get it straight. ;)

  • Carlucci

    Of course Afghanistan is a lost cause. It was a lost cause for Russia and Great Britain when those countries were there. Sending US soldiers far away to hell holes like that keep the soldiers away from America, where they might turn against the rulers of evil in D.C.

    I can’t believe anyone still believes, much less writes about, the “story” about the killing of OBL. Didn’t anyone on this list (besides me) watch that short film that was posted to the right of this board for several days? It featured yet another photo shop rendering of the “dead” Osama Bin Laden. The neighbor next door to the alleged OBL said several times in the film that he didn’t believe the “official” story at all.

    • Master Gunny

      Sir,
      The Soviet army was built solely to conduct a classic major war using conventional weapons on European turf. Soviet dogma, communist ideology, and Russian culture breed a force that was completely out of it’s element for any other kind of war. God save the Queen but the Brits were not much better off. With incompetants like General Elphinstone at the helm defeat was inevitable. British foreign office meddling were also major ingredients for frustration and defeat. Bear in mind the British track record against the Zulu, the Boers, and the fuzzies before ascribing any credit to the Afghan. Did I forget to mention Bunker Hill and Saratoga? The Arab is the worst soldier on the planet, bar none. Sometimes they make half-assed fighters but never good soldiers. We can thank Allah for that.

  • S.C. Murf

    Sorry but the men on the ground in nam did not loose the (police action)war, the government did. They (politicians) were chicken $hits just like the ones we have in office now, they didn’t even have the balls to call it a war. In war you bleed and die and I spent 2 years watching my brothers bleed and die. This is all crap, we are still loosing our best sons and daughters because some greedy businessman or politician wants more. Its time to shoot them all and let God sort them out. Time to take back our country. As for Lt. Calley, the Americal pulled out of their A.O. for about 6 months then when they went back out they got their butts kicked, I know what happened, with 30 days left in country (short) they pulled my outfit, Screaming Eagles, out of I core and sent us all down to the 2nd core to pull their a$$e$ out of the fire. When the Americal initially pulled out the NVA moved in and set up shop, along with their own people living in small villages to resupply and hide them when necessary. Just as today it is again the politicans screwing up. When in Gods name are we going to wake up and stop the lawyers from running the show? We have a commander in chief that doesn’t know what year we are in. Sorry for the ranting

    up the hill
    airborne

    • April

      You are right SC Murf.
      Also, You and other heroes like yourself fought to defend our rights to rant. You have earned that right and I appreciate you who KNOW ALL TO WELL WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT. THANK YOU AND THOSE OTHERS WHO HAVE SERVED GOD AND COUNTRY!! THANK YOU!! THANKYOU!! GOD BLESS AMERICA!!!

  • Pilgrim

    When I was a kid on the farm, cow piles were plentiful. It was always amazing to see the critters that lived in those cow piles…all kinds of little vermin. When the critter population grew too large we would make the decision to exterminate the little buggers before they got into the house…….where they would create a much bigger problem.

  • Al Sieber

    World 2, lasted around 3- years, eight months, by this Sept. we have been in Afghanistan 10- years.

    • Wayne937

      The war was over in that period of time because back then our military was allowed to do what they do best, kill the enemy and get back home. Now they are not allowed to do that, plus you don’t know who the enemy are since they do not wear uniform. They are civilians in the day light, and murderers at night. In other words they are too scared to wear a uniform and let our soldiers know who they are.

  • jopa

    Great article and the Pakistanis are using the billions of dollars sent by the USA to build those nuclear bombs just like the Israeli’s.If the troops were not over there they wouldn’t be targets for the Taliban.This whole scenario ( Iraq and Pakistan)was a total waste of American lives and treasure.All we needed was a great leader and Seal Team Six.

    • http://marcum1@wildblue.net coal miner

      joba,

      I agree with you on thhis one.

  • Frank C.

    I think the U.S. has shown, by its actions, that even the Vietnam War was the right thing to do and in the long run, to me, it looks as if we have won. I mean, Communism is stopped dead in its tracks is it not? So the sacrifices made to date, to me at least have stood for something and are not wasted. Even if the Taliban does come back in Afghanistan after we leave, those prehistoric idiots should know that they better be more concerned who they let plot against other countries come into their neighborhood or else they can get another grenade plopped into their lap. Unfortunately those lost American lives give the freedom to vent and complain to those who protest every government move to keep us free and able to enjoy the benefits of our society. What we do not want is aggressive and intrusive actions that make us less free and I do think we have avoided those types of activities and military actions. Corruption and ethics aside in considering Iraq and Afghanistan we have made our point and I believe the world in regards to Afghanistan and Iraq is a better place. That is not saying there is not continued room for improvement but after all we are only human.

    • Don

      Frank C., Did you say communism is stopped, go to Wash. DC, it seems the place is full of them !!

    • Wayne937

      Frank, how are we to get rid of the Communuist in our Congress. Most of them are masquerading as Democrats?

      • Frank C.

        Sure, even Obama is not exactly anywhere near a conservative, well, he is pretty close, to my way of thinking, he is at least a conservative communist and some of his compatriots I am sure are disappointed that the Soviet Union crumbled. Maybe that should be one of the campaign slogans the Republicans should use – “Look you liberal democrats, communism failed!” But to see the other side of the coin you have to turn the coin over. There are some good things about the Obama administration and his cronies-don’t ask me what, but I am sure there are some good things. As they say “Democracy is a terrible form of government but it is the best form of government on the planet.” Sometimes in order to give a punch you have to take a punch and be a decent counter puncher. I do not think we have had such a liberal administration since FDR. Sometimes the best way to learn is through experience, and boy, we are sure getting the experience now. As for communists around town now you would have to go back to the threats to our country from communits througout the 20th century beginning with Marx, the Russian revolution, the threats of the cold war, the predominance of radical labor unions and communist infiltrators before and after World War II. So relatively I think we are doing pretty good and are on the right track.

    • JC

      Frank C. says:
      May 25, 2011 at 10:08 am
      I think the U.S. has shown, by its actions, that even the Vietnam War was the right thing to do and in the long run, to me, it looks as if we have won. I mean, Communism is stopped dead in its tracks is it not?
      ___________________________________________________________________

      Well, I’d sure like to think so. Turns out all we did was repackage it and set it up in DC. Now we are fighting it here at home.

  • Jack Seabourn

    so whats your solution?????????? wait till the alkada comes over the mexican border??????????????

    • JC

      The waiting part is done. They’re here.

  • BrotherPatriot

    If you have never heard of a man named Dr. Steve Pieczenik…then you have some research to do.

    Here is a link to what he has been saying since 2001 and is again saying now, recently. You should listen to his credentials and keep in mind who he is & why he is saying what he is saying.

    http://mikephilbin.blogspot.com/2011/05/steve-r-pieczenik-tells-alex-jones.html

    Basically, he was saying back then that Bin Laden died from the disease that he had. Other countries even posted how Bin Laden started dialases treatment. Apparently the CIA put Bin Laden’s body on ice and knew they would wheel it out, when & if it was needed.

    As a former special forces…a SEAL even…I can say with certainty that if we wanted to find someone then our technology would allow us to find them.

    The Bin Laden story is a lie. The facts as presented by our government on 9/11 is a lie. The man sitting in our white house is a lie.

    Stop believing the lies.

    The two greatest threats against America is the Islamic movement and the great conspiracy of the New World Order. Both are very real but the NWO people is the greater of the two threats. They have infiltrated our government and the very foundation & network of our society. They manipulate everything and are slowly advancing their Agenda. They have been at it so long that their childrens, children are now in positions of importance & power after being educated at Harvord, Stanford, Yale & Princeton.

    Become educated to the simple truths & facts that History has recorded. I advocate reading, “Brotherhood of Darkness” by Dr. Stanley Montieth.

    It’s all connected & that’s why it’s so very hard to believe the enormity of what is going on. Read…”The Creature from Jekyll Island”, “The Manchurian Candidate”, “The Post American President”, “Where’s the Birth Certificate” by Jerome Corsi, and listen to the hard core facts that are presented by Alex Jones.

    Learn about the Bohemian Grove, the Georgia Guidestones, the Illuminati, the fact that indeed Bin Laden was created by the CIA. It’s all connected, my brothers & sisters.

    Wake up.

    God Bless.

    • Challis

      i41 you are totally correct. I woke up in 2001 and I just hope more people wake up soon before it’s too late. Ron Paul 2012!!!

    • Greg the Electrician

      B.P. The conspiracy theories are much easier to believe as Truth.

      The scriptures tell of future mid-east destructions, after Israel returns to their land (Ezekiel Ch 36)…

      It is beyond coincidence…Israel wins most of the time, except for the Last Time…1/3 of their citizens survive the massive attack and flee Southward towards Jordan.

      And, they return after the last Great Battle LOCATED AT: At the valley or Mountains of Megiddo….where a 200,000,000 man Army is stationed. Their biblical name is “Kings of the East”.

      This army evidently marches across a dried up Euphrates River. Not impossible now-a-days…Turkey has the Master Control Switches for all of the 21 (?) dams on the Euphrates.

      The Jews of Israel are back under their Covenant of Protection the Abrahamic Covenant. Their ancient enemy, originally called Philsitines is in their face once again…Just like the David and Goliath story of old.

    • American Patriot 777

      Brother! I have been trying to get that same message across to these people here. They will not listen. They will not research. I guess it’s too many years of BOX NEWS. OOPS! Fox News. All they have to do is go to youtube and watch some footage of “WE ARE CHANGE” trying to get answers to the lies that were told to the people there in NY. And, to get help for the first responders. Then there is “9-11 LOOSE CHANGE FULL LENGTH” on youtube as well. Then there is Building #7. That never get talked about. Yet, it fell a few hours after the twin towers. Funny! how buildings fall that never get hit by planes then fall into their own foot print. just like the twin towers did. Then there is the jet liner that went poof! into dust after hitting the pentagon. Yet no on questions little things like “WHAT” no luggage? no tail section? no wings or engine parts? OH! I almose forgot the little thing like the $ 23 trillion that came up missing just days before 9-11 that was about to have Congressional hearings on. That never happened. And, the Billions of dollars of “GOLD” that was removed just moments before the twin towers collapsed. In it’s own foot print at free fall speed. OH! and then there was this little detail that they thought that never would have been found out. Nanothermite in the dust. It melts steel folks. Great post brotherpatriot! great post. I just hope they do the research as we have.

      • BrotherPatriot

        Thank you, Brother.

        May the awakening continue to grow. May we then as a society and a species take the steps necessary to remove the cancer that has infected the body of humanity for ages.

        May we remove the cancerous Illuminait/Masonic influence that has shaped this world we live in and the religion that they believe in.

        God Bless.

  • Libertarian

    This war was NEVER about wining or loosing! See: 1) when the Talibans started to burn the poppy fields off in response to American refusal to increase their portion of proceeds from the pipe-line, 2) when the American & NATO forces hit the ground, 3) when heroin started flowing out of Afghanistan again!

    By doing the above, you will find out: 1) who benefited from 9/11 and 2) was it in fact a “flase flag”/black op or not.

    My hopes and prayers for this country & the world is for either: Ron Paul or, his Democratic counter part, Dennis Kucinich to be noticed by the Sheeple and be voted in to bring about the change we’re all after. North American Union must be stopped and the roll out of our common currency must be stopped, as well!

  • i41

    As usual the pusified wimpy smucks of the college educated book trained brain dead, idiots believe wars can be fought like a board game. There is no deaths and damage to anythng but feelings. Real world handling of these organisms, who want to kill you, in anything goes mind set. Just like all muslims do to non- muslim believers no matter what country they are in. The Nam war protestors were incited by the communists as proven by records, all the feel good protesting f–ks that have been in power in Congress for a 3 decades. Calley was used by the likes of all democraps of Kerry and his ilk, to gain office position. When we are fighting stoneaged 3rd world pieces of s–t, Americans need to think and fight the bastards in the enemies mind set. Not in the mind set of a civilized society, the muslim mind set is of anything goes, untill the enemy is controlled and conquered. Calley treated the 2 faced Cong enemy as they did to them, shoot and let let who ever sort the pukes out later. America should handle all democraps and muslims as subversive marxist/communist smucks that they are, they want to destroy USA, by what ever destructive ways possible. Either by destroying the economy, freedom of businesses, impeding working conditions for total government control. UN mandates or total control of their perverted belief of one world government or the moon god worshipping. Name on thing any democrat or pedophile worshipping muslim that gives a flying f–k about freedom of civilians, businesses to live without government meddling or the belief of freedowm to worship as Christians. Democrats believe in allowing the rug scrubbing muslims to inflict their perversion on American, more special treatment minority bildge. Prove me wrong, since all dems love and believe what this marxisr/communist muslim moron in the WH does and do what ever he wants to eliminate the USA as a nation of freedom.

  • TIME

    I am sure that what I will post will piss off a lot of you, but its logical, and as war is based on Logic so to is Business I think of war as a business deal.

    First off if we as a nation engage in a war, then “commit to it 100%.”
    That implies the following;

    #1) We wage a total war with ZERO RESTRICTIONS on our Troops.

    #2) We do not rebuild the said nation after we win.

    #3) We have them PAY us for kicking their ass, thus No out of pocket cost to us.

    #4) If they don’t have the funds then we take what they do have and let them slide back into the stone age.

    #5) We as a nation VOTE first to allow Congress and the POTUS to commit to a war. Not the way it is now where they commit to what ever lines their pockets from, Goldman, Dupont, GE, P&W, etc…

    #6) We untie the hands of our Military Leaders to do what they are trained to do. Commit all out War to win.

    #7) No more of this World Police crap. Its obvious that form of alledged war has only cost us as a nation not only our Son’s and Daughters blood, of what you all should be mad as hell about that alone. But it has as well cost our nations wealth and we are sitting in the bloody mess we are now sitting in today.

    With that all said there are countless details I have not addressed, but the fact is war is like Business.
    You don’t go into a business deal with the idea of breaking even, nor lossing.
    You look at each contract as:
    I will WIN..
    I will PROFIT..
    You Commit 100% to get the deal done and make it work out that you will make money. Otherwise why bother.

    JFTR; We removed the Taliban from Afgan lands with just 200 SF troops in less than 50 days. So why is it were are still there again?

    • Greg the Electrician

      The U.S.A. at one time had a Department of War. Now we don’t. We have the Dept of Defense…instead!

    • Wayne937

      I stand behind you comments, Time. You are absolutely right. When you beat your enemy let him lick his own wounds.

    • Master Gunny

      Respectfully disagree. The succesful execution or war requires two distinct personality types in the senior leadership. First is the leader possessing copious amounts of cynacism, duplicity, opportunism, and political ruthlessness. These qualities are found in abundant supply in politicians of every stripe. A Bismarck is the political ideal for insuring what we like to call victory.

      The second type of man possesses prodigious amounts of both moral and physical courage, shrewd strategic vision, uncommon tactical skill, utter disregard for personal advancement, and dedication to the mission that places him in the top .0001 percent of mankind. This is your perfect soldier, subserviant to the politician but able to wield the sword of reason to insure that both elements of strategy, political and military, work in unison. No war is won solely by the military but most wars that are lost can be ascribed to the politician. Politicians need to heed the soldier’s advise regarding the “if,” “when,” and “where” to use brute force in the execution of state policy but the soldier needs the restraining hand of a savvy politician who knows when it’s time to take the best deal available.

      The Allies won the Great War (in spite of criminal incompetence by both soldier and statesman) but the cost had been so high that no lasting peace could be forged. Likewise many of the counter-insurgency campaigns of this century were either lost or proved to be excessively costly because brute force needs certain limits based on a nearly infinite set of variables some of which are beyond a soldier’s grasp.

      I long for a politician with a professional soldiers vision, knowledge, and strengths but absolutely fear a soldier with a politicians instincts.

      • Jay

        Wow, Master Gunny, you sure know your stuff and have explained it in no uncertain terms. Thanks for the education! Btw, I agree!

  • ALFRED E. NEUMAN

    ANYONE SIMPLE MINDED ENOUGH TO BELIEVE ANYTHING THE “COMMANDER IN THIEF”, AKA: BARACK H. OBAMA SAYS IS NOT FIT TO SHARE A BOX OF “DUMB ROCKS”!
    THIS MUSLIM,COMMUNIST,CRIMINAL CHICAGO THUG POLITICIAN, FOLLOWER OF SAUL ALINSKY, AND SON OF FRANK MARSHALL DAVIS, (WHICH CAME ABOUT AS A MENAGE TOIS WITH BARACK’S MOTHER (STANLEY ANN DUNHAM) AND DAVIS’ WIFE).
    LOOK AT THE PICTURE OF FRANK MARSHALL DAVIS, AND BARACK H.OBAMA SR.AND SEE WHO THIS FRAUD IN THE WHITEHOUSE RESEMBLES.CERTAINLY NOT THAT OF OBAMA SR BUT THAT OF FRANK MARSHALL DAVIS. THE AMERICAN PEOPLE HAVE BEEN HOODWINKED BY THE MASTERS OF DECEIT,AS NEVER BEFORE IN THE HISTORY OF THIS COUNTRY! AND THE DEMOCRATIC CRIMINAL MARXISTS WANT TO RUN THIS MAN FOR A SECOND TERM? INCREDIBLE!

  • Greg the Electrician

    This is Police Action again. So, there are no winners.

    Islam’s Ko’Ran teaches to kill the infidels. Somebody decides to do that action.

    Therefore, Islam wins; unless they are totally stopped.

    Israel can’t back down or give up anything…so the tensions coninue on, and will escalate to Crescendo Levels…And Israel is back under their God-Given Abrahamic Covenant.

    Hezbollah is stationed to their North in Syria…This is a bigger threat than Afghanistan, wouldn’t you think.?

    Bible Prophets have told us what is going to happen to the nations that hate Israel and attempt their military campaigns against Israel…They Lose in a very disasterous fashion.

  • Jay

    The Bin Laden backlash: Angry Muslims demonstrate outside Downing Street as Obama visits Britain
    Daily Mail 25 May 2011

    Muslim activists descended on Downing Street today in protest at Barack Obama’s state visit to London. As the president met David Cameron in Whitehall, an angry crowd of burka clad women as well as protesters from Muslims Against Crusades gathered on the streets outside.

    They were joined by a number of prominent campaigners, including Anjem Choudary.The radical cleric said that President Obama has made himself a ‘legitimate target’ for Muslim extremists after the killing of Osama bin Laden.

    He called for Mr Obama to be dragged before a sharia court over his role in the war in Afghanistan.

    Continued: http://europenews.dk/en/node/43632

    • Greg the Electrician

      And our MSM doesn’t say a thing…that’s what pisses me off.

  • ONTIME

    It’s not hard to see the reason why bring a self reliant form of government to these people is so hard, they have never had anything but a form of tyranny either thru depots or the zealots of the muslim faith run their lives, there is no other form of education or freedom, so diversity of thought is non existent. They have lived this way for well over a thousand years and we of the 21st century are not going to introduce them to sudden change of their traditions, culture or tribal laws.

    I am beginning to believe all they got from the west is how to be more effective as methodical killers, by use of the defensive weapons we have introduced them to.

  • Leo

    1. By the way, what was the reason to invade Afghanistan originally?

    2. How come the building #7 fell on it own, the controlled demolition style, without being hit by a plane the same way two other building did?

    3. How come the Afghanistan experiences of the Alexander the Great, the British and the Soviets has failed to teach the smart Americans anything of substance?

    • Libertarian

      Read my comment Leo, ten posts above yours… it’s quite simple: “FOLLOW THE MONEY”!

      also, do watch: “911octopus”, “September Clues” and “911 moving bridge”, all (still!) on the Net…

  • chuckb

    libertarian, get real, what a bunch of baloney, the tv cameras were rigged to show an animated view of planes crashing the world trade center. if they were rigged that was one hell of a film auditing job.
    the people claiming the buildings were blown up by demolition is also ridiculous.

    the people behind those terrorist were not fictitious, i have no idea if al qaeda operated alone or were assisted by some other country, possibly israel knew this was going to happen, they have a very effective agency (mossad). all these theories about the trade center are just that theories.

    • Leo

      chuckb,

      Judging from the fact that a lot of these VERY COMPETENT people claim that the three buildings just physically could not be destroyed by two planes it seems that it is those who believe the official version of 9/11 are lead in the wrong direction:

      http://www.ae911truth.org/

      It could help you to read and watch this

      http://www.ae911truth.org/en/evidence.html

      By the way I myself as a civil-engineer can assure you that buildings of this kind are not capable of being destroyed by burning fuel just because the 1400 degrees temperature is far below of the necessary 2700 degrees. This is just pure physics.

      According to the government we all were witnesses to triple miracle on 9/11. Can you believe it?

      • chuckb

        leo, sorry, but i don’t buy into those buildings being destroyed by demolition. i watched as those planes hit and nothing could convince me otherwise. the planes absolutely did the job.

        • JC

          Pretty heavy into “visuals” huh?
          Don’t blame you for that.
          Thing is if you want the truth, you have to discect it.
          They were blown up alright.
          Kerosene doesn’t burn hot enough or long enough to melt girders.
          Thermite was pouring out of the windows below the break area.
          There were massive explosions in the basement “before” the planes hit.
          And it should have fallen over, not pancaked.

          Just facts and physics.

      • Libertarian

        Once again: FOLLOW THE MONEY & the trail will lead you to 9/11 & beyond! We, The People, have all the power needed to bring the change that is needed here to correct this course. Choices are quite simple: a) allow the technocrats, beaurocrats and politicians, all puppets to the Zionists, Masons, Illuminati and the Banksters to win, or b) assert our inalienable rights, provided by our sacred Constitution.

        Check out the companies that benefitted from the US lead invasions -both illegal, mind you!- to Iraq & Aghanistan. There are lots, and connect the dots with actual people, and you will most likely arrive at the most influential dynasties in the States, as well as people who meandered directly from business and became vice-presidents.

        Once again: FOLLOW THE MONEY!

        • azwayne

          AMEN, research a few of your politicians, find out how many actually on boards, consultants, stock holders, right out in open, they hide nothing anymore.If bribery were ever declared illegal, 80% of congress and department of defense, pentagon civilians, everybody would be in jail. If we can stop them profiteering from war there won’t be any. But how can this group of incompetents ever manage a self sustaining economy and grow as needed. It’s easier to stir up conflict, and pull the wool over people’s eyes.

    • American Patriot 777

      OH really Chucky B! It’s clear that you have you head stuck up your ass. why don’t you do so looking around on the internet. The information is out there in plain sight. Oh! Sorry. I forgot. You have your head stuck up your ass. Like many other sheeple in the good ol U.S. of A.

    • Libertarian

      Chuckb;
      90% of Germans -and Europeans in general- believe 9/11 was “an inside job”, and somehow you don’t?
      respectfuly,
      Libertarian

  • Raymond Babcock

    why do our leaders give support to dictators this is stupid you can not buy loyalty we should not be giving aid to no one we invade train and arm then start all over agin Isarel is the only country i would support for aid and them alone because no jews no jesus

    • Leo

      Raymond Babcock,

      Judging from the undeniable facts that it were “The Five Dancing Israelis Arrested on 9-11″ who had foreknowledge about the 9/11 your unquestionable faith in Israel makes you a real believer. Without a drop of reason, I would say. Congratulations!

  • LiarsMustBeDefeated

    Not only are they crooks and criminals (in the Administration) but they are delusional. Ha. Ha. If you can’t laugh you are going to cry. This circus in Washington DC is looking more and more like a carnaval. A crisis is clearly upon us.

    • bob wire

      Well, it appears New York’s 26th has a woke up.

  • i41

    I see on Fox News, which the muslim media ids ignoring the 3rd grade f–k ups the marxist/communist muslim committed in the last 2 days, talk about dumb and dumber. When this muslim bastard is still insulting Great Britain and Israel, and all the stupid slobbering democraps are quiet as a stepped on dead rat, about this idiots non stop screw ups to our friends. Damn I forgot, master democrat stateman Plugs Biden trained the moron, and he is a pedophile worshipping pervert who prefers to have love ins with goat abusers and every anti-American dictator he can go hot tubbing with. Lee is your mental condition affecting memory, the muslim freaks were there as well as Osama, Obama’s rump ranger was there along with severl more freaks. If USA military could fight like they are trained, instead ofthe PCed feel good azzes in the beltway and Congress.

  • Jay

    Funny thing about evil: it’s invisible most of the time, and even when you see it you don’t always recognize it as evil.

    So, put your imagination into high gear and spend a moment with me discussing evil—specifically the evil that’s slowly and systematically destroying America.
    Nine out of ten people probably won’t know what I’m talking about. If you are one of them, read on anyway. We need you.

    Which do you feel is the most destructive force at work in America today, abortion, racial tensions, street crime? Lost jobs, slow economy, high taxes? Broken homes, poor schooling, illegal immigration, impending war?

    The answer is none of the above.

    The single most destructive force at work in America today is a malevolent, behind-the-scenes group of powerful people who, little by little, are stealing our freedoms.

    I call them the Enemy—only because Big Brother is already taken.

    This stealer of our liberty is a generational cartel of wealthy, bright individuals known in financial and political circles as the international power elite who, meeting quietly and in secret, work toward a world government of subservient nations and people, over which they will reign supreme

    You think that’s an overstatement? Look around. Don’t we see unmistakable signs of that world government being formed already?

    The Enemy, then, is a global conspiracy in every sense of the word, but because the term conspiracy is so misunderstood, a definition of it is in order.

    Webster defines conspiracy as “an agreement to perform together an illegal, treacherous, or evil act.” The Enemy, with its world-wide scope and tyrannical intent, fits this description of an international conspiracy perfectly.

    The Enemy’s methods are manipulation, deceit, and subterfuge; its target is the free nations of the world, and its objective is subservience, domination, and total economic and political control, not just of America, but eventually of the world.

    Now you’re thinking– but the idea of a conspiracy isn’t new, right?

    True enough, but the average American has no idea what a monstrosity the conspiracy has become, because the subtlety, secrecy, and ultimate goal of it is beyond the purview of most people. That’s because no decent individual can conceive of how a person, or group of persons, could be so evil and devoid of conscience.

    In his Blue Book, written back in 1959, Robert Welch, founder of the John Birch Society, called our Enemy–the Insiders. Which they were, and still are. But since then, the Enemy has taken the forms of many negative factions, organizations, and “isms”, communism, socialism, and many more, which are operating freely in America today.

    It’s truly amazing that a half century ago, Welsh was already aware of who the real Enemy of America was, and though he identified it as the Insiders, he could not foresee that it would gradually morph into a Hydra, a lethal beast with many heads.

    He did, however, lay out n his Blue Book five, pointed statements to help us understand the Enemy, so that it might be destroyed before it destroys us.

    Here is the essence of those five statements:

    ONE: America’s battle with the Enemy is not one of ideology. We are not in a war of words. Conservatives think all they have to do is win a debate with Liberals who ridicule the theory of a conspiratorial Enemy, and the battle is over. Nothing could be further from the truth. The reality is, America is in an intense battle for freedom from any kind of tyranny, and you don’t win that fight by out-debating your opponent.

    TWO: Some people still think the main danger lies in a physical attack, but our REAL Enemy does not think that way. A surprise military threat would only draw attention from the Enemy’s takeover of the nation by internal subversion, which is going on all the time. It also serves as an excuse for the Enemy to seize more reins of power and establish more controls by the conspirators who are conquering us from the inside.

    THREE: Americans fail to realize that the Enemy works in the shadowy world of mental manipulation. One hand distracts your attention while the other hand does the deceptive work–as when you amuse children with make-believe and magic, or startle spectators with feats of legerdemain and illusions. The result is you are always fooled.

    FOUR: People with vested interests, who believe the Enemy’s lies, can hardly be expected to admit that what they’ve been told, and what they believe to be true, is false. This hurts their pride and their reputation as knowledgeable sophisticates in the country clubs and the business world. So they refuse to recognize the poison they’re swallowing.

    FIVE: Most people are jellyfish dressed in human clothes. If some are aware that America is in danger, they don’t have any idea how it can be stopped. If it can be, they say, “Let George do it. I don’t want to get involved.” They feel that by not opposing the Enemy they will be safe. Which makes them not only cowards, but fools. The only change in the Enemy is that over time he becomes infinitely more sinister subversive, and powerful.

    As Welsh boldly points out in the Blue Book, Americans are being played for suckers by an amoral bunch of sophisticated, international criminals, scheming to become rulers of an enslaved human race, in which every civilized trait has been destroyed. But remember this, although they hold positions of immense political influence and financial power in Washington, London, Paris, and other major cities, as well as the banking, educational, and publishing centers, their power rests solely and completely on bluff, pretense and deception
    Source of article: http://www.etherzone.com/2002/moor122102.shtml

    • BrotherPatriot

      Bravo, Jay!

      BRAVO!

      Well spoken & thank you for taking the time to write that.

      Correct on all accounts.

      God Bless & Yol Bolsun!

    • JC

      VERY well said.

    • PeggyB

      Jay – Great post. There is a great deal of information available to those who wish to learn. It seems that many prefer to stay within the confines of their “comfort zone”. And, to be sure, it is not comfortable to come to grips with the knowledge that we are under the control of forces so evil and so deceptive that the mind can hardly comprehend it. The NWO and the Illuminati controllers do not even hide their agenda. It is there for all to see, but they are confident that most Americans are oblivious to it simply because they choose to hear only what they want to hear.

      Again – A great post. Keep trying to educate!

  • Kelly Jones

    I look to the book of Revelations to understand what’s happening in the world. As much as I fight it, It,s still coming. All we can do is fight the good fight. Praise our LORD always !!

    • Jay

      Ezekiel 38 through 39 tells of a future invasion of Israel by a vast coalition of nations that surround it.  As we read the headlines in the newspapers of today, and witness the conflict in the Middle East, it’s not hard to imagine that this invasion prophesied over 2600 years ago, could be fulfilled in our lifetime. 

      Ezekiel 36-37 predicts a gathering of the Jews to the nation of Israel, which will be followed by this massive invasion.  For 19 centuries the Jewish people were scattered throughout the world, and until May 14, 1948 there was no nation of Israel to invade.  With the nation of Israel now a reality, the stage seems set for the war that will usher in the tribulation and the rise of the Antichrist; a war that will end with the destruction of Israel’s enemies by God Himself, and lead to the signing of a peace treaty with the Antichrist.

      As you read Ezekiel 38 and 39, it isn’t just the creation of the nation of Israel that makes this prophecy seem likely to be fulfilled in the near future.  The nations that God tells us will form this coalition against Israel seem more likely now than perhaps ever before to form just such an alliance.  To understand the prophecies of Ezekiel about this future invasion, it’s important to understand who the players will be. 
      There are many theories as to who will join in this future invasion of Israel.  Before going through a list of the individual nations, I’ll list some of the more common theories you’ll hear when studying the prophecies from Ezekiel 38. 

      Ezekiel 38:1-6  The word of the Lord came to me; Son of man, set your face against Gog, of the land of Magog, the chief prince of Meshech and Tubal; prophesy against him and say: ‘This is what the Sovereign Lord says:  I am against you, O Gog, chief prince of Meshech and Tubal.  I will turn you around, put hooks in your jaws and bring you out with your whole army – your horsemen fully armed, and a great horde with large and small shields, all of them brandishing their swords.  Persia, Cush and Put will be with them, all with shields and helmets, also Gomer with all its troops, and Beth Togarmah from the far north with all its troops – the many nations with you.’

      1.  Hashemite Kingdom Theory:  The Islamic Nations will come against Israel either by an Iraqi-led, Jordanian led, or Turkish led coalition.  The enemy from the north refers to the areas of Syria, Turkey, and Iraq.  These Islamic nations make up the lands occupied by Magog, Gomer, Togarmah, Meshech and Tubal.

      2.  Caucus Theory:  Gog and Magog are the Arab nations in an alliance with the Muslim republics of the former Soviet Union.  This theory leaves out most of Russia, and includes only the southern part.

      3.  All Europe theory:  Gog and Magog are the sons of Japeth thus the originators of the European races.  Gog and Magog therefore indicates all of Europe.  This is not a widely held theory and I could find little support for it.

      4.  Russian Theory:  The Hebrew word ‘rosh’ in verse 3 is identified with Russia, ‘Tubal’ with Tiblisi or Tobolsk and ‘Meshech’ with Moscow, therefore Gog and Magog refers to Russia.  This is one of the most commonly held views and is based on a different interpretation of the Hebrew word Rosh (used as a noun rather than adjective), similarities in the pronunciation of words, and the Greek translation of Rosh referring to a tribe of people found in what is now Russia.

      5.  Indo-European Theory:  Gog and Magog include the nations descending from Japheth: Russia, the Caucasus(Turkey), Iraq, and the Islamic republics of Central Asia.  The coalition is an alliance of Arab nations, Muslim republics, Georgia, southern Russia and the Black sea area.

      These are some of the theories you will find if you do any research into the prophecies of Ezekiel 38.  You may also find interpretations that are a combination of these, and in fact, I tend to find more evidence for a version of the Indo-European and Caucacus Theory. 

      Before looking at the participants of this invasion in more detail, it’s important to understand that the war described in Ezekiel 38 is not the same as the war that will come at the end of the tribulation when Jesus returns to defeat the Antichrist and establish his millennial kingdom.  How do we know this?  The war at the end of the tribulation, known as Armageddon, is a world war.  Revelation tells us that this battle will involve all nations.  The war described in Ezekiel includes specific nations that invade Israel.  Also, Armageddon is at the climax of the tribulation, while the war described in Ezekiel comes well before then.

      Continued:http://www.contenderministries.org/prophecy/gogmagog.php

      • Cawmun Cents

        Gog=Arabic nations of Islam,from North Africa,to Southeastern Europe,and the Arabian Peninsula. Magog=Southeast Asian nations of Islam,Persia(Iran)and all the other Islamic lands east of Israel.That is my interpretation of the prophesy.There are enough Muslims to make a 200 million man army,which is described in Ezekiel.No Russians or Chinese necessary,except maybe as weapon suppliers.

  • Pete

    I’m one of them “armchair generals”-just let all of you know. Don’t take it to seriously whatI’m about to say, and please feel free to destroy my arguments.

    These Pakistani folk have nukes. Now if the Chinese or Russians give them some effective anti-ship missiles then I think the USA would be fought to a stalemate. If I was one of them leaders in Pakistan I would get me some of them “KLUB” missiles, you know – their the ones that go supersonic while flying close to the water. “BOOM !” and then one of our flat tops gets annihilated !!

    So I would get as many of them anti ship missiles that I could. Launch a whole bunch – like one every 30 seconds , then like 2 more every 42 seconds, etc. I heard the US Navy doesn’t have enough “Phalanx” rapid fire weapons on board our ships … Plus them “Phalanx” use ammo pods …

    I’m just saying when one of our flat tops battle groups are effectively attacked, and sunk – that’s when Obama is going to pull out of Afghanistan, and US troops will be called home – to the USA.

    Hersome hyperlinks
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phalanx_CIWS
    and
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/3M-54_Klub

    When you have 10 antiship missiles sprinting towards your ship – and only one phalanx — who is going to win ?

    • Cawmun Cents

      That would result in devastation of Pakistan.Our troops would invade from the west.Our subs would open fire with their cruise missiles knocking out any ability for protection from airborne assault.The Airforce will take care of the rest.That would be the fastest military defeat you would see of such a large populace.They are not prepared to fight us toe-to-toe whether supplied by Russians and Chinese or not.They can only use guerilla tactics and hope to survive against our military.Hope you arent their armchair general or they are in deep ca-ca.

      • pete

        Thanks for the critique Cawmun Cents. I was just reading up on the Pakistani Air Force. They probably would need some more fighters, like the Griphen. Use the highways for landing strips.

        I think an American invasion force would be annihilated. If American air superiority takes out Pakistan’s conventional weapons, Pakistan would counter with tactical nukes.

        What gets me is why hasn’t Pakistan developed their own fighter aircraft ? It seems India is developing their aerospace defense industry and Pakistan should counter. That’s one reason why Pakistan would use tactical nukes on any American invasion force crossing their border.

        But I’m armchair general …

        So in my crazy. mixed up view – you have … 1) US Navy flattop – sunk (if Pakistan can get enough anti ship missiles). 2) Any American mass invasion (shock and awe ?) force – nuked. 3) US air superiority of course – but with no occupational land army – what’s the use ?

        • Cawmun Cents

          Pakistan doesnt posess tactical nukes…just the real McCoy.And India might get a little uppity if they used one…just sayin Gen. Armchair.

        • Cawmun Cents

          Pakistan is not even as strong militarily as Iraq was.Sadam Hussein had the fifth largest military in the world and we whupped his keister in a hurry.Your estimations are borne of serious underestimation not reality.Our forces can obliterate Pakistan and still whup nine other countries at the same time.The only reason we havent devastated our enemies is because the politicians are controlling this war instead of the military.Otherwise this would have likely been over years ago.I dont know where you get your estimations,but if you crunch the numbers you will see that I am telling the truth.-CC.

        • Cawmun Cents

          We have lost about 1500 soldiers in Afghanistan since 2001.No deaths would be much more acceptable.However twice as many were killed Sept,11 2001,as have been killed in the entire Afghan war.That is equivalent to losing a man every 2.25 days.About a 150 per year.There were battles during WW 2 in which tens of thousands of Americans died.In comparison,during Viet Nam,we lost approx.6000 soldiers per year.We inflicted millions of casualties during that war.And their econmy was in the tank until Clinton agreed to resume trade and got them to give the oil companies rights to drill off their coast in 1995.But for 20 years they were amongst the poorest nations on the earth.I dont know how people equate not finishing with losing,but our politburo has effectively hand-cuffed our troops,and kept us from out and out winning this conflict.Your estimations of Pakistans military might are vastly over imagined,and you have underestimated our own military.Think you better stay out of the armchair pete.

          • pete

            Cawmen Cents,

            Speculation. No experience here. Thanks Cawmun Cents. Hope I supplied some thought provoking entertainment.

  • Keith Loney

    There is no such thing as an unwinnable war. When American troops are properly supported by the nation, they can win any war they’re confronted with.
    Several years after the defeat of the alliance in the Vietnam War, the North Vietnamese described how shocked they were when the American media began spreading the ‘unwinnable’ propaganda.
    After the whipping the NVA had received during the TET offensive of 1968 they were about to agree to the SEATO demands and sign an armistice.
    Then the unwinnable propaganda began to spread across America and the U.S. gov’t swallowed it.
    General Westmoreland, who was winning battles was relieved of command and replaced by General Abrams. General Abrams knew his job was to abandon the gains of the SEATO troops, abandon the SEATO nations and abandon the Republic of Vietnam to the Progressive (Communist) tyranny.
    What do you think would happen to the SEATO alliance when the largest member nation abandons it. The alliance fell apart. The Republic of Korea bagan withdrawing its troops. The Republic of China began withdrawing its troops. The Republic of the Phillipines began withdrawing it’s troops. The commonwealths of Australia and New Zealand began withdrawing their troops. The Kingdom of Thailand began withdrawing it’s troops. Cambodia had already withdranw its troops to deal with the North Vietnamese invasion of their country.
    Don’t believe the progressive/communist/democratic lie that the U.S. spread the war to Cambodia by making it’s ‘incursion’ into that nation. The fact is that Cambodia was a member nation of the SEATO alliance. In 1965, when the member nations of SEATO took under advisement that a member nation of the alliance was under attack and voted to invoke the obligations of the alliance, Cambodia sent troops to Vietnam. The North Vietnamese responded to Cambodia’s willing involvement in the war. The U.S. didn’t spread the war to Cambodia. Cambodia, as a member nation of SEATO, willingly involved itself to help defend it’s neighbor.
    At any rate, after the American ‘media’ began spreading their pro communist war is unwinnable propaganda, the alliance fell apart. Support for the troops who were whipping the enemy disappeared. With a national legislature under the control of the progressive/ communist/democrats America Cut and Run like a bunch of cowards abandoning the people of the Republic of Vietnam and more — the member nations of the Alliance.
    This was a stab in the back to our allies, but even more – it was a stab in the back to our own troops. They were winning and they deserved the victory they had earned.
    Oh, and calling the American media “media” isn’t proper. The term media implies spreading the news. These people don’t spread the news, they’re purveyors of propagada. A more correct, proper term would be CPOs – (Communist Propaganda Organs.)
    At any rate, when the CPOs spread lying trash they undermined the support for the troops and we lost the war we had won.
    The Vietnam War was not unwinnable – just ask the North Vietnamese.
    Phillip of Macedon (father of Alexander the Great) said, “An army of deer led by a lion is more to be feared than an army of lions led by a deer.”
    America has lions ready for battle. Too often in the past we’ve been led by a bunch of deer. In fact, too often we haven’t even had deer for leaders. No, usually we get a bunch of chickens. “OH God! If we send our troops, what will people think if they hurt somebody?” What a bunch of dingleberrys!
    Don’t tell our troops to go into combat but don’t hurt anyone or we’ll call you a criminal and throw you in jail. That’s happened. That’s not supporting the troops.
    I had the privilege of serving in Afghanistan before I retired after more than 30 years of service. The troops don’t want to abandon the effort. They don’t want to leave before the job is done. That would be failure. They’re winners and they deserve to win.
    The troops are ready to take the battle to the enemy. They’re ready to win. They’re ready to crush the enemy. They just need the support from their people and their government. Our lions are ready, they need lions to lead them. An army of lions led by lions will be unstoppable. Do we have a lion to lead?

    • Mike in MI

      We surely do, Keith.
      He’s always a liein’.
      I’d just as soon listen to an elephant fart as to him. Hell, I can smell his fetid breath coming though the TV screen. I hate it when he puts his forehead to the ceiling and looks down his hairy nose at us. I can see rght up his nostrils and, I swear, it always looks like there’s light shining from the left ear…but nothing to stop it in there.

  • chuckb

    keith loney, your comments covered it all. i remember dan rather and walter cronkite, the two communist sympathizers who betrayed the american public along with the democrats in the congress, who turned against our troops and aided the enemy. unfortunately most of the people to this day are still being led by the nose in the way the news is propagandized. thats why we have an idiot sitting in the white house.
    this last week should show what barry soetoro is and his actions in england shows that he has no class. netanyahu showed him up for what he is.
    so i say we should leave afghanistan immediately and stop this ridiculous bombing in libya. our war is here in this country and we should drive the communist liberals into the sea and secure our borders. stop these politicians from borrowing anymore money, the ryan budget is only a fraud to allow the congress to raise the debt ceiling. if we remove the illegal population along with liberal and rino politicians our debt will disappear.

  • Charles

    chuckb,
    You hit it on the nose.Our fight is here in America,the very fight
    of America to survive.Sure, Bin Laden was killed and that was good,
    however, we have a greater enemy in Obama than Bin Laden ever was.
    Bin Laden took down some buildings and took over 4,000 American
    lives and tryed to destroy our will. Now we have in Obama,not a man
    trying to destroy a few buldings,but a man trying to destroy a whole
    nation. His actions in America,as well as overseas shows were his
    allegiance lie, and it`s not with the American people. I will never forget what he said >>> I will transform America and spread the wealth. Wake up America, our country is heading to rock bottom faster than you think.Hundreds of thousands of people have died perserving
    what we as Americans have today and now we have a President trying to take these very things away that made us the greatest country this
    world has ever known. God bless the men and women that died and were injured for life, that left it all on the battle field, so you and I
    could enjoy the freedom and life that we still enjoy today, but may
    lose tomorow. I can`t believe one man could do the damage this man
    has been able to do in such a short time. I remember a Russian leader once said, we won`t have to destroy America, they will destroy themselves within. Was he right, and this is what is happening now?
    Good God of merecy, I hope not. Please pray for our military that are
    fighting this very day and their familes as they worry everday, if their loved ones are comming home to share their lives with them.
    Memorial day is not only a day to celebrate our fallen,but is a time
    for us to reflect who we are as a nation and a people. Was and is every thing in vain. God Bless America!!!

  • grnmouse

    I’ve said it before, and I’ll say it again: Step 1-Halt Immigration now. Step 2-Kick out those illegals in jail and send them back to their own country. Step 3-Stop giving favored nation status to those countries that have shown to be two-faced. Step 4- Stop giving out loans to those countries. Step 5- Support E-Verify in business hiring practices. Step 6- Stop giving free health care to those who support terrorists. Step 7-Stop giving visas to those countries who don’t support us in the U.N.

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