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AFER And Media Organizations Call For Release Of Gay Marriage Trial Footage

April 22, 2011 by  

AFER and media organizations call for release of gay marriage trial footageA civil rights group and several prominent media organizations have requested the release of footage of a high-profile case involving gay marriage in California.

The American Foundation for Equal Rights (AFER) recently filed a brief calling for the full and unedited release of public trial tapes of Perry v. Schwarzenegger, a case that examined the Constitutionality of California's Proposition 8, which bans marriage between same-sex couples. FOX News, NBC News, The Associated Press, CNN and the Los Angeles Times also submitted separate briefs to request the footage.

In August of 2010, a district judge ruled that Proposition 8 violated the equal protection clause of the 14th Amendment. The Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals later ordered that the judgment be suspended pending a decision by the State Supreme Court.

Theodore Boutrous, the attorney for AFER, said that Americans have the right to see what happened in the district trial. He claimed that Proposition 8 proponents are "desperately anxious" to block the release of courtroom footage because they "simply have no case."

"Why should the public be denied the opportunity to see and hear what happened in a public trial in a public courtroom in a case involving the Constitutional rights of millions of people?" said Boutrous.

In their briefs, media organizations argued that the footage will enhance the public's understanding of the matter. 

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  • Robin from Arcadia, IN

    Where is the ACLU when you think they should be there? It would be laughable if it wasn’t so sad.

    • Robert Smith

      Don’t you want the “arguments” from the extreme right revealed, Robin?

      What might we find?

      I’ll bet a lot of the “argument” is based in their god’s word. Ain’t what my friend’s god says, but hey… To each their own in America, right? Or, are you one of those who insists that we all worship your god?

      May we find out that like in Dover, PA, and their arguments for “intelligent design” are fantacies in logic and have no basis in the real archieology or common sense?

      Rob

  • Robert Smith

    What do those on the extreme right have to hide? Why are they opposed?

    The FACT is that there is little opposition to same sex marriage except from extreme right wing nuts.

    Can anyone give me a reason to oppose same sex marriage that isn’t religious based?

    Remember, there is that equality under law thing. For example, if someone argues that they can’t make babies they must not allow other couples who can’t make babies marry either, thus any post menuapausal woman or injured war here can’t get married if they can’t make babies.

    Rob

    • crystal

      Rob, you’re so blind. Marriage is religious based, but you’re so pro-sodomite that you can’t think straight. I read most comments and all your comments go straight to the homosexual topic. Any little thing you go straight to homosexuality. It’s been voted down in California twice. Are you saying that blue California is the extreme right? Take a step back and re-think what you’re thinking.

      • Robert Smith

        Hey crystal, how the heck are you?

        You posted: “It’s been voted down in California twice.”

        Assisted suicide was voted in FAVOR in Oregon TWICE, yet Bush’s Ashcroft still tried to very publicaly overturn it.

        BTW, in America we can’t “vote” equality away. It’s like slavery… We couldn’t vote slavery back.

        BTW, as long as the government says they need to be involved in the CIVIL contract of marriage (remember, even atheists can be married) it must be available to all consenting couples above the age of consent.

        BTW, except for your vengeful and brutal god why are you opposed? It ain’t no skin off your nose.

        Rob

        • crystal

          I’m thorougly opposed to all forms of immorality. I’m opposed because the homosexual community believes they have the right to other people’s children (SB 48). I’m opposed because the introduction of homosexuality is going into California schools (which I pay taxes to), and homosexuals have made it a law where parents have no rights to pull their children out of homosexual teaching in classrooms. I’m opposed because homosexuals whole agenda is to destroy other people’s children. I’m opposed because homosexuals whine about Matthew Shephard but say nothing of Jesse Dirkhising and other children brutally raped and murdered by homosexuals. I’m opposed because we just don’t want you around us or our families. No — it’s not normal, no — it’s not natural and if you want to run to science it doesn’t even make sense in that respect either. You know this is true. You look in the mirror and see nothing but disgust and misery. Why would a nation want to spread that to children.

          • Robert Smith

            Awww chrystal, you sure do go on and on. Let’s check it out shall we?

            crystal syas: “I’m thorougly opposed to all forms of immorality.”

            That’s nice. I sincerely hope you will follow my morals here in America and keep your nose out of the personal business of others, particularly in the bedroom. Snooping and advocating a change from who they are is immoral to me. BTW, you have offered a religious argument and here in America we ain’t running our country on religion.

            More from crystal: “I’m opposed because the homosexual community believes they have the right to other people’s children (SB 48).”

            What kind of a bill is SB48? Oh, here is part of it: “The Fair, Accurate, Inclusive and Respectful (FAIR) Education Act would amend the Education Code to include social sciences instruction on the contributions of lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender (LGBT) people. This bill would also prohibit discriminatory instruction and discriminatory materials from being adopted by the State Board of Education.”

            Chrystal, would you deny the contributions of all of these people to society? Why deny anyone credit when they earn status by doing something? BTW, I like the idea that discriminatory materials won’t be in schools where my kids might attend.

            “I’m opposed because the introduction of homosexuality is going into California schools (which I pay taxes to), and homosexuals have made it a law where parents have no rights to pull their children out of homosexual teaching in classrooms.”

            You are gonna have to prove that one crystal. All of the legislation I’ve seen of that nature allows parents to opt their kids out. Have you actually talked with school officials? I suggest you try.

            “I’m opposed because homosexuals whole agenda is to destroy other people’s children.”

            That’s a lie out of whole cloth. Thanks crystal for demonstrating yet another extremist argument. The fact is that most gays, etc. want EQUALITY. Discriminating against them does not make them equal.

            “I’m opposed because homosexuals whine about Matthew Shephard [who was killed by a couple of thugs for being gay] but say nothing of Jesse Dirkhising and other children brutally raped and murdered by homosexuals.”

            Yes chrystal, there has for several years the revealing of priests who have pedophile rapists, but that’s not the same as the contrived case you’ve present4ed. If anyone is interested in the difference between a hate crime and a child molestation you can get details at: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesse_Dirkhising

            “I’m opposed because we just don’t want you around us or our families.”

            It would not surprise me if blacks were in the same position not too many years ago with you crystal. BTW, how are they “around” your family?

            “No — it’s not normal,”

            An olympic individual isn’t “normal” either but I have no problem with them around me either.

            “no — it’s not natural and if you want to run to science it doesn’t even make sense in that respect either.”

            ROFL, “science!!?????????????” Is that the same kind of junk science as “inelligent design?”

            “You know this is true.”

            Quit lying about me. I know no such thing, and you have no right to talk about what I know and what I don’t.

            “You look in the mirror and see nothing but disgust and misery.”

            Quit lying about me crystal.

            “Why would a nation want to spread that to children.”

            My kids, and most I know around here, are fine with gays. They don’t care what goes on behind a closed bedroom door any more than they care about heterosexuals. It just ins’t an issue for them unless some sick adult pounds bigorty into their little heads.

            You wouldn’t do that, would you crystal? I consider lying to kids to be immoral.

            Rob

          • crystal

            Robert,

            Everything you’ve mentioned is twisted in your liberal media news. The fact is your putting your bedroom into our children’s classroom. The fact is that I have several teacher who I am friends with and they all state that what they’re being forced to teach SB 48, no parent will be allowed to withdraw their children from. You vile homosexuals did this in one of the counties here in California, but you backed off when the parents as a whole filed a lawsuit. As far as “We Ain’t Running Our Country on Religion” that will never happen for you. You’re not that strong.

          • Robert Smith

            crystal says: “Everything you’ve mentioned is twisted in your liberal media news.”

            Really… There is a nice general insult from chrystal that says absolutely nothing. I could say something like: “Everything crystal posts is like the broken daughter of a woman who was a lesbian and had a fetish for army boots.” See crystal, it doesn’t mean anything.

            More from crystal: “The fact is your putting your bedroom into our children’s classroom.”

            Bzzzz, FALSE crystal. But then lying is what I’ve learned to expect from the right. Let’s look at a summary of the bill Bill Number SB 48: “The Fair, Accurate, Inclusive and Respectful (FAIR) Education Act would amend the Education Code to include social sciences instruction on the contributions of lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender (LGBT) people. This bill would also prohibit discriminatory instruction and discriminatory materials from being adopted by the State Board of Education.”

            I see NOTHING about bedrooms in that bill. Why are you making stuff up crystal?

            “The fact is that I have several teacher who I am friends with and they all state that what they’re being forced to teach SB 48,”

            Yes, it’s the law voted in by a majority of whatever process made it possible.

            Another statement from crystal: “no parent will be allowed to withdraw their children from.”

            This bill is NOT about homosexual acts or anything related to pumping and plumbing. It relates to the accomplishments of individuals and a discussion of how much of a melting pot America really is. The law says it is a bad thing to exclude the good things people have done simply because they are gay, etc.

            Why would anyone want to mess with who helped build America? Ohhhhhh, I get it! You are so hateful of gays you just can’t stand the notion that they do some good in America.

            Here is an idea! Let’s exclude all the christian contributions to America. That is what you are trying to do with gays.

            More from crystal: “You vile homosexuals did this in one of the counties here in California,”

            Awwww, thanks for the fine example of name calling again crystal. Of course for gays generally what goes on in the bedroom is behind a closed door, just as it would be for a heterosexual. So, there is no real proof except for your imagination, crystal.

            But there is plenty of proof for that christian canabalism (transsubstanciation) and the brutal acts of that particular god. I don’t think we should tell kids about the canabalism. I don’t want to be eaten by christians should they get out of hand.

            Here goes crystal yet again: “but you backed off when the parents as a whole filed a lawsuit. As far as “We Ain’t Running Our Country on Religion” that will never happen for you. You’re not that strong.”

            Speaking of lawsuits, the one in Dover, PA, said it all when it came to the efforts of right wing extremist christians wanted to teach kids about their mythology of how the world began. You can get some highlights from: http://www.lclane2.net/dover.html

            Rob

      • Jay

        Crystal, robert is a homosexual zealot. Homosexuality is his religion, and the phallus, his god! Therefore, his obsession with legalizing same-sex marriage, is not only normal in his eyes, but imperative, to be sure! Poor, blind and wretched, robert needs our prayers and pity, not our condemnation!

        • http://?? Joe H.

          Jay, are you trying to say he’s a “catcher”????

          • Jay

            And receiver, no doubt! Yuuuck!

        • Robert Smith

          Please don’t offer your group thing, oops prayer, to me. I want no part of any religion that has such a brutal god. Why would I want to fear any god?

          Rob

        • crystal

          When homosexuals are attacking school children, we better start condemning and fighting.

          • Robert Smith

            Well, why don’t you give us some examples. I’m sure enough priests have abused kids you can find some goodies.

            Oh, here I found one in Springfield, MA http://www.bishop-accountability.org/ma_springfield/: “Accused priests were allegedly abusing children during the administrations of Bishop Christopher J. Weldon and Bishop Joseph F. Maguire, and the 1972 murder of altar boy Danny Croteau during Weldon’s tenure is the subject of an active investigation. One suspect in that murder is former priest and convicted sex offender Richard R. Lavigne, who was paid a diocesan stipend into the administration of the current bishop, Timothy A. McDonnell.

            All those bad religious guys. Maybe we should make being a priest illegal.

            Rob

          • MikeN

            Crystal,Your wasting your breath arguing with a mentaly and moraly diseased fag.

          • Robert Smith

            Nice to see how “discussion” goes for another extreme right wing nut. Thanks for another fine example.

            Got any issues or just insults?

            Rob

        • Robert Smith

          Hmmmm, forum tactics to fight for oppression…

          Call those who make valid points for freedom in America names.

          Yup, looks like a right wing tactic around here.

          So the conclusion is that Americans should not be treated equally because right wing nuts call those who support freedom names.

          Thanks for such a fine example, guys.

          Rob

    • Bob from Calif

      Hello Robert,
      You talk about equality, but yet you tag the right wing as extremist wing nuts. That doesn’t sound as if you consider the right equal. Then you say “Can anyone give me a reason to oppose same sex marriage that isn’t religious based?”. Do you think that just because someone uses religion as a basis in their thoughts and judgments that they are not as worthy some how? First of all tell me how much of your life has been devoted to the study or practice of any religion? If you haven’t at least given some serious study to the “Religious” then how can you judge them? And if you have studied my friend, and still have the same opinion of the “Religious”, then keep looking. I am a Christian and finding Jesus as my Lord and savior was the best thing that ever happened to me. As a result I get to spend eternity with God in heaven. Can you say the same? For your sake I hope so.
      If you really believe in equality, then respect all opinions equally. That’s not to say that you agree with every opinion, because I certainly do not. But if you don’t agree, learn why you do not and then tell me your evidence as to why you disagree,and lets discuss it, otherwise you are being an equality hypocrite.

      • Robert Smith

        Awwww Bob, are you asking me to prove a negative? Let’s watch: “But if you don’t agree, learn why you do not and then tell me your evidence as to why you disagree…”

        First I’m not going to do any of your suggested homework. I have my own interests (religious and otherwise) and in America it isn’t any of your business.

        Further, in America there will be no STATE religion. So, quit lying and implying that your christian ways are the ways of America. That is at best coincidental and certainly not a fact. Again, there are no quotes from your bible in our Constitution.

        How do you explain that George Washington must have arguments delivered to prove his commitment to christanity yet there is absolutely no doubt about his Masonic ties and his public display of it as he laid the cornerstone of the U.S. Capital. Can you show us any christian leaders who wore it on their sleve as they were out and about?

        BTW, what “evidence” do you have that your god is any more real than any other god? You know, Isis, Isis, Rah, Rah… Lots of ancients were tied up in that belief. Rome stood for over 800 years with many many religions. Why does worshiping that Jewish kid make you so special? Prove him, his daddy, and that holy spook are real.

        See Bob, I keep my discussions about what is REAL, not what is fake. Until you can prove your god is real I don’t believe. And, the history of your god is loaded with brutality (floods, cities being smashed, that first born son thing… Wow, so much brutality.)

        And finally, if I want any advice from an extreme right winger I’ll poke Rush Limbaugh.

        Rob

        • Bob from Calif

          You know what Robert, you can believe what ever you want to. God allows you free will. That free will even can lead you all the way to Hell if that is your desire. That is not Gods desire for you even if you don’t believe. I don’t believe in a state religion either. That is not freedom. I couldn’t care less if George was a Mason. The fact is that our Founding Fathers gave the world the best government that this world has ever seen. You sound like you are very angry. I have no ill will toward you. I speak with only good intentions. If you want to know if the Bible is true, try looking into Bible Prophecy. How can a book be right 100% of the time when it comes to forecasting future events. The only way is for the person writing it to be outside of our time domain. And please do not tell me it is incorrect until you have given it a thorough study. Also, tell me do you believe in oxygen. Can you see it or hold it in your hand. I guess you could if it was in liquid form. But my point is, not that long ago you could not see it taste it smell it or even know of its existence until you were deprived of it. Now that we have the technology to detect it and measure proves of its existence. Just because we don’t have the technology to prove of Gods existence doesn’t mean he does not exist. Physicists have discovered 10 dimensions. Have you been to any of these dimensions lately, but yet they have been proved to exist. There is more in this world than meets the eye my friend. Just because you can’t see it don’t so easily discount it.

          • Robert Smith

            From Bob: ” you can believe what ever you want to. God allows you free will.”

            Then why do you work so hard to take it away? Women particularly are often faced with a difficult decision about abortion. Who are you to tell them what to do when your god wants THEM to decide?

            Hmmmmm, maybe your god wants some people to reach him when THEY decide (after all it’s that free will thing) but only in Oregon can one determine their time of final exit. Why do you try to make decissions for others when your god wants them to decide?

            Why do you only permit your holy alcohol as a recreationa drug? After all there are plenty of others that your god might want to see how people do on.

            Rob

          • Robert Smith

            Question asked: “Also, tell me do you believe in oxygen. Can you see it or hold it in your hand.”

            Yes, actually I can when it is cooled to liquid form. There are also direct tests for it for which the results can be seen.

            Further, there is a direct cause and effect when it is present. Oh wow! Now I stepped in it because I’m gonna get smashed with “well we can see what god does…” Nope. There have been plenty of great and evil people without your god showing himself. And, the last talking bush I saw was an idiot.

            Rob

          • Robert Smith

            Said: “Just because we don’t have the technology to prove of Gods existence doesn’t mean he does not exist.”

            Just because we don’t have the technology to actually see a unicorn…

            But oops again! Unicors are real. Check out: Lancelot a unicorn that toured with the Ringling Bros. and Barnum & Bailey Circus during the 1970s. I saw him, but I’ve never seen your god.

            Thank you Oberon Zell.

            Rob

        • Cawmun Cents

          Read the words Mr.Smith,”Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion,or prohibiting the free excersise thereof”,nowhere does it say that the states cannot.You really need to understand the words and not eisegeticically make them what they are not,to push your own views and opinions.

          • Robert Smith

            I was talking about federal law. “state” singular is often used at that level.

            Rob

        • http://?? Joe H.

          robert,
          so washington was a mason!!! Whoopie!! My father was a 40 year+ mason and he was a deacon of the first baptist church of Adrian michigan!!!

          • Robert Smith

            Congratulations to your father.

            Ask him his opinion about what had more influence on our Founding Fathers and our Constitution, samurai’s god or Masonry.

            Rob

          • Cawmun Cents

            Well Mr. Smith,if they are right in their assumptions,then God who created…(somewhere I have read that before…*something about a Creator,in one of our founding documents,written by a man named Jefferson,oh well)….the universe would have more influence in anything since had He not created,then it would not exsist.Dont you agree with Mr. Jefferson,Mr.Smith?Did his overture to the Declaration of Independence somehow elude you?Must have read it differently than I did.

          • Robert Smith

            The Declaration of Independance is a letter to a despot who was KILLING born people here in what would become the USofA.

            Our LAWS are based upon the Constitution. There are zero quotes from the bible of that brutal christian god. There is credible evidence that Washington was a Diest (notwithstanding his pew in Christ Church in Alexandria, VA).

            Rob

          • http://?? Joe H.

            robert,
            I know which made a bigger difference in HIS life. If it had come down to a choice of one or the other, he would have chosen his Lord!! The very same answer his father and his son would have given!!

        • GRusling

          Be very careful. When you “poke Rush Limbaugh” his bodyguard will probably shoot you! After that you won’t “think” anymore and whatever you once “thought” will become immaterial.

          Marriage? Many heterosexual people (maybe most) no longer bother, so what’s the big deal with you? Is it the “aura of legitimacy” you so strongly desire that makes you believe everyone will be forced to accept your twisted lifestyle as “normal” if you only had a piece of paper to hang on the wall? Those who oppose it on “religious” grounds will never accept your marriage as legitimate, while those who don’t won’t even notice! Just what are you trying to accomplish?

          The homosexual lifestyle is strange and unnatural. I’ve never seen or heard of two “male animals mating” so it’s obviously an unnatural thing you support.

          That means you always lose because you can never win…

          • Robert Smith

            Another threat of violence from the extreme right: “When you “poke Rush Limbaugh” his bodyguard will probably shoot you!”

            This is America. When someone tries to shoot me for having free speech it might get more interesting than then anticipated when they embarked upon their bullying ways. Remember, liberals are allowed to carry guns too. However, I can guarantee that there is more of a commitment to defense than that of the right who on these forum have posted about shooting illegals on their way into a hospital.

            From GR who asks: “Is it the “aura of legitimacy” you so strongly desire that makes you believe everyone will be forced to accept your twisted lifestyle as “normal” if you only had a piece of paper to hang on the wall?”

            First, I’m not gay GR. I don’t have to be gay to respect the rights of homosexuals, I don’t have to be a woman to respect her rights, I don’t have to be black to respect the rights of blacks, I don’t have to be a right wing nut to carry a gun. I’m an American.

            “Those who oppose it on “religious” grounds will never accept your marriage as legitimate, while those who don’t won’t even notice! Just what are you trying to accomplish?”

            What is tring to be “accomplished” is the FACT that marriage is a CIVIL contract when the government is involved. That means everyone gets equal treatment under law. The fact is that a parent, brother, or uncle can toss a “lover” out of a hospital room even if their partner of many years wants them there. Social Security, insurance, and even buying a house is much more difficult for domestic partners rather than folks who are married. It’s all about equality.

            “The homosexual lifestyle is strange and unnatural.”

            To you, I’m sure. But I find the canabalism in christanity to be ratehr ucky. Remember, that transsubstanciation thing? The actual blood and flesh… That’s your religion, not mine.

            GR posts: “I’ve never seen or heard of two “male animals mating” so it’s obviously an unnatural thing you support.”

            Ever hear of National Geographic, GR? It used to be across an intersection from the NRA in DC. Now the NRA has gone to Fairfax for political reasons. Oh well… Anyhow, for gay animals check out: http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2004/07/0722_040722_gayanimal.html

            Now you can read about them and learn. See, ignorance is curable. Stupid ain’t. Are you willing to learn?

            Rob

      • Robert Smith

        An interesting question asked by Bob: ” If you haven’t at least given some serious study to the “Religious” then how can you judge them?”

        I judge them by their inpact upon MY life here in a free America.

        It started when I was in high school and realized that we had no meat in the cafiteria on Friday. That was “fish” day. It could have been on any other day of the week and it would have been no bother. Then I found out that they were accomidating the “special” needs of a religious group.

        Today, unless I want alcohol, I can’t enjoy what other recreational drugs I might want because alcohol is the chosen by the “special” group who claim their god says so.

        And for others I’m sure they are bothered too. They can’t get married to the one they want because of the religious interests (as you claim your opposition to THEIR love is based in your christanity. (Actually some christians do same sex marriages, even in christanity, like Bishop Spong).

        So, with mixed input from religions, some allowing same sex marriage, and some not, what contribution to the argument can you make besides your religious garbage? Do you claim to be the “one true” version of christanity?

        Remember, you have four people who are in love. One boy and one girl, and another boy and another girl = two married couples and you apparently have no trouble with that.

        If a boy and a boy and a girl and a girl decide to get married it is still TWO couples but you seem to have a problem with that two couples. Why? Ohhhhhhh, on with your religion impacting others.

        THAT is how I tell which ones are good and which are bad. HOW much do they try to impose their religion upon those not part of the flock? Also as an extra added bonus, trying to put one’s religion upon another when they don’t want it is a sign of a cult. Sex control, control of money (tything)> Consider the necessity to get your ticket to your heaven punched by bothering me to join your religion? I weigh such things heavily in evaluating an organization to be a cult, let allone a religion.

        Rob

        • Bob from Calif

          Hello again Robert,
          Are you truly this mad at God just because you were deprived of meat on friday at your school cafeteria. I would rather not be deprived of preferences myself. I don’t think that any religion should have an impact on any individual that is not interested.
          As for alcohol and drugs, they should all be legalized in my opinion. This would stop the cartels and empty our prisons. What someone does to their own body is their own business. There should be one stipulation that comes with that. Just as you are not allowed to drink and drive or be intoxicated in public then the same should be held with drugs also. People need to be held responsible for their actions, especially when it affects another person, no matter what influence they are under.
          You say”(Actually some christians do same sex marriages, even in christanity, like Bishop Spong).” If you had a true grasp of what Christianity really is, you would know that this is not Christianity, nor is Bishop Sprong a Christian.
          If you want to have a relationship with any other person regardless of sex go right ahead. You have that freedom, no one is stopping you.
          But just remember, God says that Homosexuality is an abomination, and one day you will stand before God to account for your life. But if you don’t believe in God what do you have to worry about any way.
          As for cults you are right there are a lot of them out there and you should really be careful. Just make sure that you know the Bible very well, and no one will be able to fool you.

          • Robert Smith

            Bob says: “If you had a true grasp of what Christianity really is, you would know that this is not Christianity, nor is Bishop Sprong a Christian.”

            I can only call christanity by what those who call themselves.

            Bishop Spong (and many others) have a loving and respectful relationship with their kind god. I don’t see any intimidation or fear.

            The other christian god that you appear to represent is hateful, brutal, and outright nasty. I can’t believe in any god that rules through fear. Human beings are too good to be ruled by fear and hate.

            BTW, I can accept you calling yourself a “christian” but I think it down right awful that you would try to define religion for another. I don’t believe in your brutal god. Why should I believe what you say about another? Why do you let yourself be ruled by so much hate and fear?

            Rob

          • Cawmun Cents

            How could a God that sacrificed His only Son,so that everyone can be forgiven,be hateful? Oh,yes well then,you refuse to acknowledge that sacrifice,and then call Him a hateful God.Hmmm,yeah that sounds correct and wise,doesnt it?The Founders would have looked at you with derision.They would have asked that you be exterminated quickly so that you could not pollute the whole of society.But you found hope in a man named Marx,who gave people a different view than the Founders.The you proceeded to invent lies about the Founders to discredit their association with the God/Creator which they spoke of in the very first document of this nation.To make your argument seem more credible to those who are too simple or foolush to see through the smokescreen,you had Marxist professors teach those very same lies in your Marxist institutions.You intended,and succeeded to build a deviant society within a decent one,and now that you have caused the cancer within,you seek to make the deviancy normal through law.But the decency which you seek to supplant is still within the people who you intend to infect with your standard of deviancy.It wont work.just like trying to change the design of the Founders,or the Creator which they have obviously given written credit to.So crawl back to whatever hole you issued forth from amd stay in the shadow where you belong.

          • http://?? Joe H.

            robert,
            i hope you are just as angry at your parents and the school for your apparent lack of meat on Fridays!! They had the control, not religeon! plus thanks to those meatless Fridays you will probably live a little longer, mores the pity!!

          • Robert Smith

            Pitty?

            How christian of you joe.

            Rob

          • http://?? Joe H.

            Like I said, I try to live up to his way of life, I just don’t always succeede!!

          • James

            Bob from Calif., For the record there is no biblical requirement to refrain from eating meat on Friday or on any other day of the week. You are equating church doctrine with what saith the Lord, and they don’t always agree.

          • Robert Smith

            Posted: “You are equating church doctrine with what saith the Lord, and they don’t always agree.”

            Shucks, folks around here can’t even agree on who is a real christian and who isn’t. So for Bishop Spong and Robert Schuler aren’t. My guess is that around here they can’t tolerate a loving god. The hate is just driving them too extreme.

            Rob

          • James

            Robert S., God doesn’t love everything and everybody, see Romans 9:13.

        • Cawmun Cents

          “Couple”implies that they fit together.Ball and hitch,bolt and nut.Ever try to couple a bolt and a bolt….wont work will it?You take terms that you perceive as having meaning to you,and twist them to mean what you desire them to mean.You cannot couple two bolts or two men,but you can marry two nuts,is that what you are saying?I want to know,what you think”marriage”is.Is it a state sponsored contract?Because if so,then you already have a suitable law concerning Homosexuals and their partners on the books in most states.If you go by the recognized standard definition of marriage,then you cannot marry two bolts,or two hitches,or two men,or two women,it is a physical impossibility.They are not designed to be”married”to one another.The act of marriage implies one part male,one part female,in other words one fits snuggly in another as they are made or designed to be,and the two are then married.There has to be a physical opposite in order for that to occur.Try to”marry”two male plugs together…it wont work.Similarly,if you attempt to”marry”two female sockets,it will not work.Marriage is a physical act between a man and a woman.It is not a state sponsored contract.If you were to develop another term for homosexual partnership that did not use or pertain to the term”marriage”,then you could and do have a suitable definition,and a law that serves the homosexual partnership”Marriage” however means something which you,evidently,do not comprehend.So please give us the respect that you give any other definition in the dictionary,and stop complaining about definitions which you cannot change.

          • Jay

            Very well stated, Cawmun Cents!

          • http://?? Joe H.

            Cawmun Cents,
            i have no problem with them getting a civil union with all the rights of marriage, just don’t call it a marriage! that IS a religeous term and they, like goofball above, are so against Christianity and should have no right to use the RELIGEOUS term!!! Besides, I have no more rights than they do. they can marry anybody they want as long as it’s the opposite sex!!! Robert is just mad that he can’t marry his brother!!!

          • Robert Smith

            Awwww Cawmun, you say: “Ever try to couple a bolt and a bolt….wont work will it?”

            Yes. It’s called a stud (threaded on both ends) and it’s very good on heads and other applications.

            Rob

          • Cawmun Cents

            Even with a stud(male end)you still need a nut(female part)to fasten the head to the block/transom/beam,or it still wont work.My point being that design is where your definition is flawed.Things that are designed to go together are”married”things which are not require adaptation or transformation,in which case they are no longer as designed.A piston goes in a shaft…etc.It even works on a legislative scale as you can well see.You have to redesign the law to make it work.A law wont work like it was intended to if it is modified or re-written.Soon you will have the definition meaning things which it does not mean.People will want to be married to animals,and in-animate objects oe even adults to children.Once you modify it,all bets are off as to the final definition.That is deviancy no matter how you personally define it.

        • Patty

          Robert-If you let the animal rights people have their way, you won’t get meat at all in school. Be happy you got it 4 days a week.

    • James

      Robert Smith, If everyone married the same sex, and didn’t cheat on their spouse, mankind would cease to exist.

      • Robert Smith

        I’m sure you won’t be “converted.” Thus the human race will go on.

        Or are you already thinking of switching sides? I’m certainly not. More girls for me (if they want to participate)!

        Rob

        • James

          Robert Smith, If everyone married the same sex, how could civilization go on? No female could be impregnated.

    • Bob G

      Smith, Are you an atheist queer?

      • Robert Smith

        Neither Bob, neither.

        I don’t have to be a woman to stand up for a woman’s rights.

        I don’t have to be black…

        I don’t have to be anything in particular…

        ALL Americans should be sticking up for freedom and equal rights. Why aren’t you?

        Rob

        • Patty

          The gov’t. should get out of the business of what socially ails us. Because to be in the business means you have to come down on one side or the other. Let people live free.

        • James

          Robert Smith, By ‘equal rights’ do you mean everyone should be able to do whatever they want, with no restrictions on them at all?

          • Robert Smith

            Quit lying James… I’ve said no such thing.

            We don’t need laws to stop consenting adults from loving each other and getting the same social security, retirement, and other benefits that married couples get. It ain’t no skin off your checks.

            Can you show us ANYTHING except your religion that would stop same sex couples from marrying that doesn’t apply to heterosexuals? For example, some have claimed that they can’t breed, but that means that wounded vets who can’t reproduce won’t ever be able to marry. Do you really want to take responsibility for that lgislation? That’s what equal under law means.

            Rob

  • voldemort

    What does it matter what subhumans do as long as they do not receive any benefits human couples get?

    • Robert Smith

      I’ll bet you say the same thing about blacks, voldemort.

      • crystal

        Robert, homosexuals are always trying to drag Black people into their crap. If you were a legitimate cause, you would leave us out of your low-end lifestyle.

        • Robert Smith

          I don’t care anything about “lifestyle.” What I care about is equality in America and how it has been corrupted by christians.

          Did you know that there was a special catichism for slaves to keep them slaves and that they were supposed to understand that the christian god wanted them to be slaves?

          You can check that hateful god out here: http://wps.ablongman.com/wps/media/objects/2661/2725147/documents/doc_d066.html

          Rob

  • Raggs

    Why is everyone in California a faggot?

    • American Patriot

      Is the term “Raggs” some lower form of a Tampon? Just asking And, No! I am not one of them crotch cannibals here in California.

      • Raggs

        Just figured that I would use a word the left HATES to be called.
        I don’t give a rat’s ass about political correctness frankly speaking political correctness is just a way to silence my rights…

        So that being said a faggot is a faggot is a queer.

        The term Raggs is what my daughter gave me when she was a child when I got home from work in a tore shirt…

        • Robert Smith

          And I’ll bet you like to talk about that retualistic, nonono NO NO NO! It’s REAL canabalism from christians.

          You rememvber, it’s that christianity thing: the Roman Catholic and Eastern Orthodox doctrine that the bread and wine of Communion become, in substance but not appearance, the body and blood of Jesus Christ at consecration.

          Eat any good gods lately?

          Rob

          • Jay

            Worshiped any phalluses lately, Robert?

          • crystal

            You’re really mainstream with Christianity. You have no real experience or issue with it. Your homosexual-hatred of God is your hatred. Not ours.

          • Robert Smith

            Jay, NO, I haven’t worshiped or dealt with any pricks lately. Except to test for sugal levels that is. How ’bout that christian god though! Floods, cities, first born…

            Actually crystal, you have no idea what my experiences are. Quit lying about them for you are far from any truth.

            Rob

      • Semper fi do or Die

        ROFLMAO

    • Jeremy Leochner

      Its interesting Raggs to suggest that in order to see Homosexuals as people deserving of human liberties one must themselves be a homosexual. Its weird as I am not a homosexual but I believe homosexuals deserve the right to have their marriages be considered and recognized as valid and official.

      • Raggs

        Bull shit!… homos are not born to be that way it is a decision on their part not a RIGHT! thats the screwed up way of thinking that comes from the marxist left.. If I decided to be a rapist does that mean I have that as a Right?.. What bullshit!

        • Jay

          Raggs, I don’t believe fudge packers are born fudge packers either! It’s just plain junk science. Personally, I think its disgusting for two men to engage in that kind of behaviour, but that’s just me. Maybe I was born this way, to find the homosexual act, disgusting! Why not? According to the logic, or science, “I was born this way”, my disgust is genetically predetermined, after all, i’m heterosexual, i was born this way. But what are we to make of other sexual preferences or lifestyles? Pedophilia, bestiality, necromancy, s&m?, these are all preferred sexual lifestyles. Where they also genetically predetermined or born that way? What about rapists, serial killers, drug addicts, alcoholics and so on, all preferred lifestyles, by the way ? Why should only the homosexuals be granted that rather generous consideration? Where does choice enter into the picture? Quite frankly, it doesn’t, how convenient! The same consideration, thankfully, is not granted to the rest, not yet anyways.

          • Jeremy Leochner

            The issue with choice versus gentics is tricky since its based on the capacity to choose ones sexual orientation. That is to choose who one is sexually attracted too. I can say as having survived puberty that for me in regards to my being heterosexual it was no choice. I simply was. My issue with being able to choose homosexuality is if one finds or feels any sort of attraction to homosexuality or the homosexual lifestyle which is the only reason one could be a homosexual does that not imply that the person is already at least a bisexual if not a homosexual. One would not be attracted to members of the same sex if one were not already in the definition of a homosexual who is sexually oriented to members of the same sex. As too murderers and rapists I tend to see those as choices since such an act of murder or rape has no basis in love or devotion which homosexuality has a basis in. As to pedophilia perhaps it is genetic in some respects. However my understanding is pedophilia derives from a twisted mind that has been damaged to link it to such an depraved attraction. However at the end of the day pedophilia, murder, and rape are choices and do not represent a person from the get go. They are acts in and of themselves not lifestyles that have basis in sexual orientation or attraction. Unless the person claims successfully to have had feelings toward such matters from an early age I feel its a choice in such cases. As to homosexuality I say its based on being attracted to members of the same sex from the get go and that if thats what one is than thats what one is. So long as a homosexual couple have devotion and love for each other at consenting age I feel its okay to allow them to be as they would with or without my consent. And if they dont fit that bill well then they are in the wrong, however just as the worst of heterosexual couples dont represent heterosexuality so the worst of homosexual couples dont represent homosexuality.

          • http://?? Joe H.

            Jeremy,
            then explain how a woman can be happily married for 20 years, have kids, love her husband above all others and then six months after he dies, she “becomes” homosexual???

          • Jeremy Leochner

            Hard to say Joe. Perhaps she was in the closet. Did she say she always had such feelings. Did she suggest she was attracted to it for long. I guess I dont know. But I dont think it enough to say homosexuality is a choice.

          • http://?? Joe H.

            Jeremy,
            then prove the GENE!!!! BEWARE THOUGH, I can site you at least two for every one that says it exhists!!!

          • Jeremy Leochner

            I can’t. You do have me on that. Perhaps the only counter I have is to ask to prove that one can choose to change their sexual orientation without already being somehow inclined towards that which they choose to change too.

          • Robert Smith

            Hey Joe and Jeremy…???

            When did YOU decide to be heterosexual?

            If you were “created” that way how can you argue that your god didn’t creat others in different ways?

            Oh, and palezze don’t come up with a tired, “he wouldn’t do that.” In fact that brutal god has destroyed cities, flooded the world, and killed a bunch of first borns. I can imagine him sitting on his through thinking “How’ ’bout I make a few fags for my followers to beat up on so they can feel good about themselves.”

            Yup, that’s the way I figure it.

            Rob

          • Jeremy Leochner

            Robert I think im on your side when it comes to birth. I didn’t choose to be heterosexual I was born heterosexual. I figure by the same token one can’t choose to be homosexual therefore one is born homosexual.

          • Cawmun Cents

            God created man and woman for each other,they fit together,Mans sexual organs fit together with a womans sexual organs…its about design.Men took that creation and deviated from it.So then you have Gods creation being twisted into what it was never designed to be.Do you think you are designed to be homosexual,or is it inside your mind that you cannot accept how you actually were physically designed?You are just loooking for an excuse from your deviant behavior.Problem is that those of us who will excuse that behavior have no stake in its outcome.Those of us who recognize that it is deviant are branded haters.Its a win win for you because you can do what you wish while you are alive and call everyone who disagrees with it bigots.If disagreement with abnormal behavior is bigotry,then you cannot hate murderers,pedophiles,rapists,rascists,Christians,Muslims,evil people,mean people,genocidal maniacs,the list goes on forever.Just because I disagree with your assessment of homosexuality,doesnt mean I hate you.I may hate all deviancy,but it doesnt mean I hate you personally.Yet you take my hatred of deviancy and make it personal,to the point of trying to tell me that deviancy is normal behavior,and that I am a bigot if I choose not to accept that as fact.Then you smear me(as the one who chooses not to accept your deviancy as normal)in public,and those who are easily led believe your insinuations at face value.You garner sympathy from weak minded folk because you will convince them that your devancy is actually normal.But those of us who know the truth are hated for knowing the truth,and as you spread lies about us we can only sit and be called bigots because if we take any action it lowers us to your level of deviancy,in the eyes of the uninformed.So blow off steam and rant if you will but the folks on this thread are likely not going to fall for your deceptive attacks.

          • Jeremy Leochner

            The issue Cawmun Cents is that you claim to not hate homosexuals but in the begining of your post you say how god created man and women in a manner that lowers homosexuality to the level of deviant behavior. You than say there are those who excuse the behavior and those who know it to be deviant. I can imagine it hard for homosexuals to feel you care about them when you basically say we either put up with their deviant behavior or we recognize it for what it is and are branded haters for it. With respect Cents this reminds me of the guy who found out his bestfriend from childhood was gay and told him “This dosen’t change anything, Im willing to overlook your problem.”
            Also I dont consider homosexuality to be deviant when compared with the more deviant aspects of heterosexuality. So I wouldn’t consider myself excusing it as much as recognizing it as valid and equal when compared to heterosexuality.

          • Cawmun Cents

            Apparently you have an issue with the term”Design”.Noting the design of Human beings is not hatred,it merely is how they are designed.Any change from that design whether you choose to acknowledge it or not is deviant.It is not subject to your definition but is an actual observation of the nature of humanityand the laws of nature.

          • Robert Smith

            From Cawmun: “God created man and woman for each other,they fit together,Mans sexual organs fit together with a womans sexual organs…”

            If he’s such a bright god why did he run the sewer through the playground?

            Rob

          • Robert Smith

            Joe asks on this forum: “then explain how a woman can be happily married for 20 years, have kids, love her husband above all others and then six months after he dies, she “becomes” homosexual???”

            Don’t know. Why don’t you ask her? Oh but then there’s that old hate vibe going on I doubt she would pay much attention. But ignorance is curable if you just ask. Stupid ain’t though. Gonna try to cure your ignorance?

            BTW, did you know that Norma McCovey was a lesbian? You can read more about here at: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norma_McCorvey

            Oh, and she was baptized by ol’ Flip hisself! How’s that for a born again christian?

            Rob

          • Cawmun Cents

            To Mr. Smith,The only sewer in the playground is in the playground inside your mind.But it is your god who designed you that way,not my God.

          • Robert Smith

            Jay says: ” I don’t believe fudge packers are born fudge packers…”

            Ahhhhh, such word play to insult others and steal their rights.

            I’ve just figured out that these fundimentalist hateful christians are simply using their interpritation of their bible as a weapon without thinking about others. They are clearly not putting any thinking effort except for their own fears.

            So, as Fundimentalists without the mental part they are now thought of by me as “fundies.”

            Yup, that works.

            Fundies… What a fearful and hateful lot.

            Rob

          • libertytrain

            Rob Says: “Ahhhhh, such word play to insult others and steal their rights.”

            coming from the one person who does nothing but attempt to shock, awe and insult people – this is hysterical and very much the “do as I say, not as I do.” style that we have to laughingly expect from these types.

        • Jeremy Leochner

          There is a slight issue Raggs. There is a vast difference between a decision based on imposing yourself on another regardless of their consent and professing consentual love. Homosexuality is based around love of someone of the same sex in addition to sexual lifestyle. While you can disagree with the lifestyle the simple fact is its based on love and consent. Rape is wrong. But homosexuality based on love is not. Not all homosexuals have love for each other in the same way not all heterosexuals have love for each other. But among those who wish to marry I can’t help but think theres love there. If two homosexuals can share the same sort of love for each other that heterosexuals do while being of legal consenting age I see no reason why such a union cant be in keeping with the tradition of marriage being a sacred bond of love and devotion.

          • Raggs

            Ok so you can paint a horse to look like a cow and yourself can believe it is in fact a cow because you want it to be so… If you want to be a girl cut off your goober and drill a hole get a boob job and tell everyone you suck goobers because your a girl… It’s a twisted fantasy.. No amount of ill logic will fix the twisted minds of people like that.

          • Jeremy Leochner

            But Raggs we aren’t talking about such things. We’re talking about being phyisically attracted to members of the same sex. That does not involve transgender. Perhaps it could involve certain behaviors of opposite sex but I dont wish to go there. My point is altering ones body is not what were discussing. Were discussing being what one already is.

          • Raggs

            As I said nobody is born that way..

            And if a person decides to be that way I see no reason why I need to “change” to suit them…

            This is a dead subject..

          • Robert Smith

            Raggs says: “As I said nobody is born that way.. ”

            And by what authority do you “say?” You remind me of a little kid who “says” or a bad parent who “says” or a creepy guy with candy who “says,” or a brutal god who has his flock living in fear.

            In fact when did you “decide” to be straight? Is there anything, anything at all, that could tempt you to be otherwise?

            Rob

          • Robert Smith

            Raggs says: “Ok so you can paint a horse to look like a cow and yourself can believe it is in fact a cow because you want it to be so…”

            And some self proclaimed christains by their own blabbing and deed claim to be the one and only truth path of christanity for all who follow christ.

            Follow that there sign… “God hates fags.”

            How christian of you.

            Rob

      • crystal

        Pedophiles believe their born that way. Many murderers believe their born that way. Unfortunately for all of these groups, science can’t prove their claims.

        • Jeremy Leochner

          Crystal. My view is no one is born evil. And I believe pedophilia and murder to be evil acts. However these acts are acts brought about by a twisted mind. My feeling is many murderers and pedophiles say this or believe this due to a distorted sense of reality brought on by an abusive parent, neglectful parent, lack of proper social and parental support during lifes tough times, and perhaps witnessing or experiencing such things themselves and developing the distorted view that such things are normal and a part of life. To commit such acts requires a choice and a certain level of inhumanity. To be homosexual requires only the attraction to members of the same sex and by that attraction also develop love for those people in the same manner a heterosexual couple would fall in love based on their attraction. In my view murder/pedophilia and homosexuality are in too different areas all together. It would be against everything I have ever believed or valued for it to be proven that people can be born with the desire or willingness to kill or perform pedophilia. Such a fact as that would be an abomination. Such a fact as people being born with the capacity to love members of the same sex in the same way heterosexuals love members of the opposite sex is acceptable.

          • Cawmun Cents

            THATS WHERE YOU DRAW YOUR LINE.What about what others believe?Does where you draw the line make it where the line exsists?No.Then deviancy can be and will be taken to the maximum definition eventually.You think you can stop at homosexuality once it is acceptable by law?HA HA HA,why are you so ignorant?You refuse to see that deviant behavior is apart from design,yet when a pedophile who likes a member of the opposite sex will say that he is not deviant(after all he likes a member of the opposite sex as normal people do),you will have to agree by your own standard!You have already agreed to one kind of deviancy why not agree with them all?You sir arte a hypocrite,of the worst kind.That is what homosexuals will be called by beast lovers and child molesters….then homosexuals will know what it is to be persecuted like a(Christian)in todays world.

          • crystal

            Homosexuality is nowhere near being in the same category as heterosexuality.

          • Jay

            Jeremy, a pedophile would find your comment, pedophilia is the result of a twisted mind, offensive! Careful!

          • Robert Smith

            Priests are pedophiule rapists.

            Gays deal with consenting adults who are different among themselves.

            Please quit comparing gays to priests. It’s an insult to gays.

            Rob

          • libertytrain

            Oddly this little man has no problem classifying all people as one kind of people. Very racist character this little smith is.

          • http://?? Joe H.

            Libertytrain,
            maybe that’s the reason robert is gay. that he is a “little” man!!

          • Jay

            Pedophiles are, gay! if an adult male engages in a sexual act with a boy then that is a homosexual act, same sex Robert, therefore, pedophiles are GAY!!!

          • Jeremy Leochner

            Perhaps Jay. However not all acts committed by pedophiles are of a homosexual nature. And I would say the evil of pedophilia regardless of it being hetero or homo in nature has nothing to do with either. It has to do with being an act of pedophilia. Homosexual and Pedophilia are as much the same as Heterosexual and Pedophilia are the same. And in regards to my comment on pedophilia upsetting pedophiles with repsect I do not care. For unlike homosexuality Pedophilia requires the consent of one person regardless of the age or impossibility of consent by the other. For that purpose I find no shame in hating such a cruel and inhuman act.

          • Robert Smith

            Jay proclaims: “Pedophiles are, gay!”

            Pedophiles are also priests.

            Rob

          • libertytrain

            little smith keeps forgetting that pedophiles are also: teachers, lawyers, doctors, judges, politicians, businessman, blue-collar workers; the guy next door and on and on.

          • Robert Smith

            lib says: “smith keeps forgetting”

            Not for a moment do I forget that pedophiles can come from any path one may choose in life.

            What I’m also not forgetting is that it was in the christian religion where it was organizationally covered up. That was proven over and over to the tune of millions of dollars. I’ve always wondered how it felt to put money into the plate thinking god’s work was going to be done but it went to a kid who was abused by a priest.

            Most institutions turn in bad guys. The church simply moved them around and helped them. And yet so many continue to follow. I don’t get it. Abuse on top of abuse…

            Rob

          • libertytrain

            the churches made mistakes as did the public schools when they let them go onto other public schools with out “blemishing” their record; as do the others hidden safely by the webs of society.

          • Robert Smith

            Cawumn says: “.You think you can stop at homosexuality once it is acceptable by law?”

            And if we cave into the christian talaban where will it end? Will women in America have to start wearing nun’s habbits rather than burkas? Will we become canibals too eating the flesh and drinking the blood of your savior?

            I don’t want that in America. What I want is for people to have their free will and equality.

            Rob

          • libertytrain

            “Ahhhhh, such word play to insult others and steal their rights.”

      • Patty

        Jeremy – I have yet to meet a homosexual person (and I have met a lot) who when you talk to them, they seem to have been molested as a child by some pediphile, or had a very bad experience with their mother who always seemed to be over bearing (or a man hater). They are great friends, neighbors and partiers. Just like the rest of us.
        But, my non-scientific assessment is there on how/why they lean homosexual.

    • Cawmun Cents

      Why would anyone with sense assume that California is different than anywhere else when it comes to the number of homosexuals?They are everywhere.In every state and country.Some places like California and New York and Massachusetts,have notable communities of them.But that doesnt mean that there are fewer per capita in say Oklahoma,or Texas.Just means they arent hiding their homosexuality like they do in many places.You will find deviant behavior in all places,some just hide it better,where its less acceptable.Places that have lots of prisons/convicts,will have higher activity rates since co-ed prisons havent taken on here in the states.In many other countries it is widely acceptable to have deviant behavior.Here in America,thank God it is not.We are less worldly than other places,and that is for our better,not to our detriment.Dare to be different.It is what makes us Americans.Why be normal,like the crowd,a lemming,conforming to worldly standards?Worldly standards may suck…….

      • Patty

        Cawman Cents – I take it you have never served time in a state institution. It is rampant and the weak are the catchers. Been around too many cops and prison guards not to let that one slide.

  • http://PersonalLibertyDigest Confoundme once but not twice

    The Bible ( As I know it ) clearly states that Homosexuality is Wrong. I Believe Every word in The Bible. THAT IS my Right and my Preference. To those who don`t believe as I Do..That is Their Perogative. It is Their Life to live, and when Death comes to them, Their journey here will be Finished. And Up to Our God AlMighty How they will be judged. IT is not up to us to judge. It is too bad that “”Politics And Religion ever got so mixed together. Our Constitution Meant for the Two to Stay As far apart as The North and South Pole ! Why hasn`t it ? Political Correctness..And Freedom of “”Speech, etc..gone haywire ? If we all cleaned around our own Door..And gave more attention to Helping our Neighbors than we spend in Placing RoadBlocks..We would All be So much Happier People. I`m sure GOD would be Pleased . And yes, Everyone has the right to Decide About Their God for themselves. After all, noone is going to “Meet their Maker for them’.

    • Robert Smith

      Fro coal miner: “After all, noone is going to “Meet their Maker for them’.”

      Really? I thought that Jesus guy did a pretty good job of getting rid if sin if you rooted for him.

      Rob

      • crystal

        …but you’re not suppose to go back to sin once you’ve denounced it. It isn’t one of those “Oh, I sinned today, but God forgives me so I can do it again tomorrow.” You’re suppose to STOP!!!

      • http://marcum1@wildblue.net coal miner
      • voldemort

        I guess Jesus removed the sin of onan( not sure of the spelling)also, but it was also our responsibility to live a Godly life. When I can find a consensus definition of that I will let you know. By the way I am retired Military and believe a person is as he does not as his skin color determines. One last thing: Do onto others as you would have them do onto you. A good way to live.

        • Robert Smith

          “I guess Jesus removed the sin of onan…”

          Now, was that a stroke of genius or stupidity?

          I’ve never figured out how something that feels so good, is so private, and harms exactly nothing, could ever be considered “wrong” except in an extreme where it distracts from other joys in life.

          Rob

      • voldemort

        R.S. you are right about priests. The rc and oc faith were founded by gays. That is why Christ’s chosen apostle, Mary, was Ignored and vilified. Is was seriously an Mens(more or less)club then.

    • Jason

      I believe in God, but absolutely DO NOT believe in you. The reason being, man is flawed, such as yourself. The Bible was written by humans, not God. Too many mistranslations of the original text from 3,000 plus years since it was written. It also never contained the word homosexual.

      Show God the type of person you CAN be. The one you are now isn’t working.

      Go in peace!

      • Jay

        Jason, you should stay away from a subject that you obviously know very little about! By the way, I get it, you’re gay! Stop proselytizing, we heterosexuals have an aversion to homosexuality, deal with it! You obviously are not offended, we find it offensive, live and let live and go in peace, I say! This is a conservative blog, if you don’t like what you hear, then simply leave and go hang out with your bro’s. I do not hang out at a left-wing blog, why do you hang out here?

        • Robert Smith

          Jay asks: ” why do you hang out here?”

          For me the answer is simple. I’ve learned what many of the stupid justifications for hate and bigorty are among the extreme right. I think of logical and documented replies and post them. It helps me remember so that as an American I can show just how dumb the extreme right is.

          When I’m in a bar, on TV, or at a party, I can recognize the hateful garbage the moment it comes out of someone. I push buttons. I’ve sometimes gotten them from zero to stomping the floor and slamming doors in less than four minutes flat. They shoot their own creidibility in moments.

          Then I get a hearty pat on the back for nailing another jerk. It’s amazing how quickly a bully falls apart when they run into any resistance to their crap.

          It really is beautiful to trigger and watch. And! There is no shortage. I have lots of fun.

          Rob

          • Patty

            So, are you saying you like to start bar fights? Wouldn’t that make you the instigator and bully?

  • patrick

    Once again, I offer $1 Billion Dollars cash to anyone that can prove there is a gay gene or that you are born that way. Never, has anyone found, a GAY or QUEER gene in human DNA. Look back at our school system and at our politically correct liberal govt’s slow brainwashing that has been going on for years and how it has been the major force in most humans dropping their standards … to accept the Queer lifestyle as a normal way of life? NOT. 30 years ago if they would have shown 2 men kissing on prime tome TV, the networks would have been flooded with calls and letters. Now, everynight at prime time, we witness 2 men or 2 girls kissing, and we do nothing. Do you see how this long brainwashing has taken hold? And no it is not evolution, just look at the recent media blitz showing Obammy boy as a monkey, and they question his birth? Then, the first thing outta their mouths… RACIST!!!! It is not racist all you dummy’s, a chimp is not a race it’s a species. Obammy boy has not evolvoled, he still looks like the same chimp as the one discovered millions of years ago. Maybe his ears got bigger and his lips more purple colored?

    • Robert Smith

      From patrick: “Now, everynight at prime time, we witness 2 men or 2 girls kissing, and we do nothing. ”

      Hi patrick, but what about that canabalism each Sunday morning? You better look up “transsubstancian.”

      BTW, if you don’t like to watch guys or girls kissing the same sex why don’t you change the channel? If I like watching why do you deny me viewing what I want in my free time?

      POnce again, another christian trying to mess with the pleasure of another.

      BTW, I do change the channel when comunion is on the TV.

      Rob

      • crystal

        First you need to know how to spell “communion.”

        • Robert Smith

          It’s still eating the flesh and blood of your savior.

          Sure looks like canabalism to me.

          Rob

      • http://?? Joe H.

        robert,
        you obviously have an ignorant fear of the unknown, as you have proven you know very little about Christianity. holy communion isn’t offered EACH Sunday!!!

        • Robert Smith

          So? It’s still dining of flesh and blood. In the minds of most folks that is canabalism.

          Once a day, oncea week, once a month, once a year… Just when is canabalism best Joe?

          Rob

      • voldemort

        That is only RC and OC the rest it is bread and ( in your case whine.

        • Robert Smith

          Word games don’t make the self proclaimed real blood and flesh go away voldemort. It’s still canablaism any way your munch it.

          Rob

          • libertytrain

            little smither – word games are just that, word games, and you seem to enjoy them far more than anyone.

          • Robert Smith

            I see no joy from your canabalism. It is YOUR religion that has that transsubstancian thing.

            I find that very sad when so many others are accused of killing babies (even when your brutal god took out so many first born) and otherwise lying about other religions.

            Rob

          • http://?? Joe H.

            Still trying to soothe your coscience on that abortion thingy rob??

    • Jeremy Leochner

      With respect Patrick its hard to believe your non racist defense when you then compare the President of The United States to an unevolved ape. And just for the record my valuing the rights of homosexuals dosen’t come from television or school. It comes from my parents teaching that I should treat others as I want to be treated and from actually meeting and getting to know several homosexual people.

      • crystal

        So many people have met them. That doesn’t mean you accept the sin.

        • Robert Smith

          It’s only a “sin” in the eyes of your brutal god who gave you brutal and bigoted instructions crystal.

          I don’t consider much to be a “sin.” Get used to it.

          Now, if you want to make a social contract (yup, a law) that puts a sensible speed limit on roads and prohibits one from murdering or stealing from another I’m all there.

          Rob

      • Jay

        Jeremy Leochner, you should direct those comments to Robert Smith as well. I have yet to see you respond to any of his offensive comments, why is that?

        • Robert Smith

          Because your dead guy on a stick and canabalism are absolutely true. You may not like the way I say it but it is still true.

          Rob

          • http://?? Joe H.

            like I said robert, ignorant fear of the unknown!!!

          • Robert Smith

            Well known Joe, and completely rejected. I don’t want any part of your brutal god. I don’t want any of you preying upon me (that’s spiritual rape), and I don’t want you tryint to influence anyone but those who volunteer. That means you can’t use force anymore like the inquisitions.

            Rob

          • http://?? Joe H.

            Can’t be well known if you don’t know that Holy communion isn’t offered every Sunday!!! IGNORANT fear of the UNKNOWN!!!!

          • Robert Smith

            Again Joe, how often is the proper amount of time for canabalism?

            And, do you want it more or less than scheduled?

            Rob

    • Robert Smith

      Patrick says: “Once again, I offer $1 Billion Dollars cash…”

      Prove it or your offer is fraud. Isn’t there a commandment against stealing?

      Rob

  • http://marcum1@wildblue.net coal miner
  • Jay

    In numerous civilizations throughout history, personal values and morality have slid into the pit and were attended to by God’s wrath. The slide is, again, well underway in our great USA today. The destruction of Sodom is the classic example in history where the town was obliterated for practicing the homosexual lifestyle.

    Homosexual activists have set a well planned and well financed agenda that started in the 1960s and now includes not only tolerance of their lethal lifestyle but acceptance with privileges as a special class, as a minority group. The key target is our youth. This can be seen in the following written by “gay revolutionary” Mark Swift and printed in the February 15, 1987 issue of Gay Community News. These excerpts are reprinted from the Congressional Record:

    “We shall sodomize your sons, We shall seduce them in your schools, in your dormitories, in your gymnasiums, in your locker rooms, in your youth groups, Your sons shall become our minions and do our bidding. They will come to crave and adore us. All laws banning homosexual activity will be revoked. Instead, legislation shall be passed which engenders love between men. Our writers and artists will make love between men fashionable…. We shall raise vast, private armies…to defeat you. The family unit….will be abolished. Perfect boys will be conceived and grown in the genetic laboratory….All churches who condemn us will be closed. Our only gods are handsome young men. All males who insist on remaining stupidly heterosexual will be tried in homosexual courts of justice and will become invisible men. Tremble, hetero swine, when we appear before you without our masks.”

    Dr. Judith Reisman, expert witness before the attorney general’s commission on pornography and veteran researcher has found contrary to the popular view that there is little crossover between homosexuality and pedophilia, she says homosexuals are anxious to recruit young boys–a practice that is becoming easier than to sex education and “diversity programs” in schools that teach children to consider homosexuality as both acceptable and normal.

    NO pedophile has the right to seduce or enslave a child for sexual pleasure!
    As early as 1997 the International Epidemiological Association concluded that homosexual and bisexual lifestyle expectancy was 8 to 20 years less than all men and if this mortality continues, half of homosexual and bisexual men now age 20 will not reach the age of 65.

    According to the highly respected conservative Family Research Council from “sifting of evidence from four separate databases support the conclusion that homosexual activities may shorten the person’s life span by as much as 30%” In addition…”Median age of death for homosexuals was 45, with only 2% surviving past 65 [while the median age of the ‘normal’ population was over 70 with more than 60% living past 65].”

    Further, “Causes of early death included murder, accidents, and drug abuse, but primarily sexually transmitted diseases [STDs}. Homosexuals were 116 times more apt to be murdered, 24 times more likely to commit suicide, 18 times more likely to die in traffic accidents.”

    The Journal of the American Medical Association reported:
    • 50 percent of male AIDS victims reported having sex with an adult male by the age of 16.
    • 20 percent of male AIDS victims had sex with an adult male by age 10.

    NO medical professional can ethically avoid warning our youth of these deadly lifestyle dangers. Medical representatives should be in day care centers and grade schools presenting warnings of these lethal lifestyle choices. This should be a lesson discussed with children at annual physical time.

    In 1991 the Occupational Safety and Health Administration enacted rules designed to protect health care personnel from the spread of blood-borne pathogens such as HIV and Hepatitis. Employers were forced, by law, subject to jail and/or fines, to educate their employees to prevent transmission and likely premature death.

    Homosexuality is a lie, otherwise homosexuals would not be dying!
    Where is OSHA in the classroom and day care? Don’t our children count? Are they old enough to know about condom use but not pain, suffering and premature death? Or are pedophiles “feelings” and behavior acceptance more important than the health of our youth to our society?

    NO elected or appointed legislative body has the right to enact laws that provide those performing deviant sex practices the status of a special minority class, with special insurance and workplace benefits. What will be the next special class, those who have sex with animals or the dead. Where will it end? It’s the responsibility of your congressmen to keep laws for family protection (such as male/female marriage) and get tougher with new legislation against the threats to child welfare by the homosexual lethal lifestyle.

    When the homosexual lifestyle is taught, it must be the whole truth with explanation and pictures of diseases, suffering and premature death of those who go there. Half truths, obfuscation and cover-up are lies as we see in Suffer the Children. [click here for more on the video Suffer the Children]

    NO teacher or instructor in day care or grade school, in a position of parental trust, has the right to introduce propaganda or homosexual tolerance or acceptance without the full picture of this lethal lifestyle and obviously not without the parents knowledge.

    The Family Policy Network produced a list of diseases contacted and spread through the lethal lifestyle of homosexuality. These include, but are not limited to, the following:

    1.Pubic lice
2.Scabies (mites)
3.Fungal infections
4.Oral gonorrhea
5.Oral lesions from herpes, HPV (warts), chancroid, lymhogranuloma venereum, or granuloma inguinale.
6.Nongonolococcal pharyngitis from chlamydia, other STD’s
7.Syphilis
8.Enteric (intestinal) infections
9.Traumatic proctitis
10.Rectal gonorrhea


    11.Anal warts
12.HIV/AIDS*
13.Nonspecific procitis (from chlamydia and other STDs)
14.Anorectal herpes


    15.Anorectal syphilis
16.Rectal trichomoniasis
17.Lymphogranuloma venereum
18.Anorectal granuloma inguinale 
19.Anorectal chancroid
20.Cytomegalovirus
21.Anorectal candidiasis
22.Physical abrasions
23.Bites
24.Herpes
25.Urethritis from various STDs
26.Nongonococcal urethritis
27.Genital herpes
28.Molluscum contagiosum
29.Genital warts
30.Trichomoniasins
31.Epididymitis and/or proctitis
32.Granuloma inguinale
33.Chancroid
34.Shigellosis
35.Campylobacter fetus (bacteria)
36.Enterogenic E. coli bacteria
37.Hepatitis (A, B, and others)
38.Amebiasis
39.Giardiasis
40.Salmonellosis
41.Enterobius vemicularis (parasite)
42.Oral warts

    As these diseases become resistant to medication, mutations and permutations occur. To keep the human body fighting to resist the spread of further illness the immune system breaks down and premature death results.

    *15,000 new cases of HIV/AIDS alone are reported daily in the world. Will one be a son, daughter, grandson or granddaughter?

    The Boy Scouts of America were victorious in the Supreme Court of the United States against the frontal assault by the homosexuals. This was a grand outcome for morality and the right of a private association to select its leaders. Now the struggle for the minds and bodies of our youth is on fast track in the school systems as professionally developed videos target school students, teachers bring homosexuals to classes to promote their agenda and the truth is twisted to favor the homosexual agenda.

    • Jason

      Straight people spread disease as well. It’s not exclusively a gay issue. There are more straight people in the world. That means there is more disease spread by straight people. However, there more people people in the world, straight or gay, that aren’t spreading disease. It’s easy to cherry pick statistics to serve your selfish point!

      • crystal

        Look at percentages.

        • Robert Smith

          The AFA ain’t nothing but a right wing extremist propaganda arm of the brutal christians out to dominate the world.

          Rob

      • Jay

        Aids is exclusively a gay disease!

        • http://?? Joe H.

          Jay,
          Tell that to all the hemopheliacs that got infected from tainted blood, or the heart surgery patients that got it the same way! That is the way it STARTED to be but has changed in the past twenty years or so!!

          • Jay

            Joe H, for sure, that was an absolute tragedy that, by the way, could have been avoided!

            Bayer Documents: AIDS Tainted Blood Killed Thousands of Hemophiliacs
            Thu, 22 May 2003

            An examination of internal Bayer company documents by The New York Times reveals that the company was engaged in unsavory, probably criminal marketing practices. The documents reveal that Bayer continued to sell contaminated blood plasma causing thousands of hemophiliac patients to be infected with AIDS.

            The company continued to sell the contaminated blood in Asia for over a year when it had already introduced a safer, heated blood plasma version in the US and Europe in February 1984.
            The documents examined by the Times provide evidence of unrestrained corrupt practices by a pharmaceutical industry giant. According to The Times, records suggest that the reason for continuing to sell an AIDS infected blood product, was to get rid of inventory and “the company hoped to preserve the profit margin from ‘several large fixed-price contracts.’”

            This previously uninvestigated case demonstrates how this industry’s lies and crimes are shielded by officials at the Food and Drug Administration. The Times reports that in 1985 FDA’s Dr. Harry Meyer willingly helped Bayer cover up “one of the worst drug-related medical disasters in history.” Meyer suggested that the issue should be “quietly solved without alerting the Congress, the medical community and the public.” This culture of accommodation continues to prevail at the FDA.

            The case also demonstrates Bayer’s racial elitism. Its lethal marketing policies disregard human lives. The mother of a 22 year old hemophiliac who was killed by Bayer’s tainted product in Hong Kong put it this way: “they did not care about the lives in Asia. It was racial discrimination.”
            The Times reports that three other American pharmaceutical companies were involved in selling tainted blood plasma after a safer version existed: Armour Pharmaceutical, Baxter International and Alpha Therapeutic.

            American taxpayers have awarded unprecedented, generous financial subsidies to this industry–no other has extended patent rights as does this industry. In return they have been deceived, believing that drug company officials care about alleviating suffering and improving people’s health, and that the FDA protects them from tainted products. In fact, this industry has repeatedly shown that profits matter more than human liveseven less valued are the lives in underdeveloped countries.

            Currently, Bayer–through its subsidiary, Bayer CropScience–is applying pressure on the Environmental Protection Agency in an effort to lower the standards for pesticide contamination. Bayer has conducted unethical human pesticide experiments and wants the EPA to accept the data from those trials. The nature and purpose of such wholly nontherapeutic experiments violate The Nuremberg Code which was adopted in 1947 to protect human beings from potentially lethal, non-medical experiments.

            http://www.ahrp.org/infomail/0503/22.php

          • Robert Smith

            But jay!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?

            Isn’t that big business that the extreme right doesn’t want to see regulated or taxed?

            Seems to me it’s the extreme right that has empowered such abuses.

            Maybe you will figure it out yet.

            Rob

  • Jay

    Lesbian couple guilty of gruesome murder
    March 23 2006 at 05:30am 
By Baldwin Ndaba

    Guilty: Engeline De Nysschen has been found guilty of murder.

    Four-year-old Jandre Botha refused to call his mother’s lesbian lover “daddy” – and paid with his life.
    Jandre’s father, Jan Botha, was in the Vereeniging regional court’s public gallery on Wednesday when his former wife, Hanelie Botha, 31, and her partner, Engeline de Nysschen, 33, were found guilty of the gruesome murder of his son.

    He sat in court holding the hands of his fiancée, Yolanda Deysel, and listened attentively to magistrate Rita Willemse, who, in her judgment, accepted evidence that among the reasons that led to Jandre’s brutal ordeal was his refusal to call De Nysschen “daddy”.
    The court had heard evidence from Lydia Nkomo and her daughter Aletta Lesiba, who worked for the couple in their tuckshop, that De Nysschen had viciously assaulted Jandre while demanding that he must call her “daddy”.

    Both testified that while Jandre was assaulted, his mother failed to intervene or protect him. Evidence showed he had sustained horrific injuries, including a fractured skull and brain damage, as well as broken legs, collarbone, hands and pelvis.

    The court accepted the evidence of Professor Mohammed Dada, a trauma expert, who said the boy’s injuries were similar to those of a person who had fallen from a double-storey building.
    Delivering judgment, Willemse acknowledged there was no substantial evidence linking Hanelie to the assaults, but said she was equally guilty of murder for failing in her legal duty to protect her child against abuse and violation.

    The court found she had lied to Dr Elna Gibson, one of the medical doctors who treated Jandre, by saying the boy obtained his injuries after he had slipped in the bath.
    The court ruled that she had lied to protect De Nysschen. The doctors who had examined Jandre dismissed the pair’s version that he had slipped in the bath. They said excessive force was required to inflict the kind of fatal injuries sustained by Jandre.

    Convicting the two, Willemse dismissed their version and said there was substantial medical evidence before her about the nature of the injuries suffered by Jandre.
    “I accept the evidence of the medical personnel who are experts in their fields. There were substantial documents placed before me. Most of them have medical experience which spans over a period of 15 years.
    “All of them have dismissed the version of the accused and were unanimous that the deceased’s injuries were inflicted over a period of time.
    “It is unthinkable that the mother of the child could not have known about these fatal injuries. The deceased also had broken legs, and his mother should have been aware of this.”

    The magistrate criticised Hanelie for failing to report Jandre’s abuse at the hands of her lover to the social workers monitoring Jandre’s progress, after she had gained custody of him during a lengthy court battle with her ex-husband. She also failed to report the abuse to her ex-husband.

    The boy’s father became aware of Jandre’s abuse only on the day of his death, June 12, 2003. De Nysschen contacted him and said Jandre had fallen earlier in the day and had died.
    Willemse criticised Hanelie’s fitness to be a mother, saying her parents later approached her ex-husband and gave him financial help to fight for the custody of his child.
    Rebuking Hanelie, Willemse said: “Hanelie was not helpless. She was well aware of Engeline’s violent outburst.
    “She could have called the child’s father for help but she failed to do so. She did nothing to protect her own child.”

    The magistrate labelled Engeline a liar and a hopeless witness who had contradicted herself in testimony.
    Hanelie and De Nysschen were further convicted of assault with intent to do grievous bodily harm and child neglect for failing to provide or seek treatment for Jandre’s limb fractures.

    The case was postponed until June 26 for a pre-sentencing report.

    • crystal

      Thank you for the information. It goes right along with what happen to Jesse Dirkhising.

      • Jay

        There is ample evidence that suggests, the homosexual lifestyle eventually leads to madness! Robert sounds demented.

        • Jeremy Leochner

          Jay I have close friends who are homosexual and they show no signs of madness.

          • crystal

            Homosexuality is madness.

          • Jay

            Not yet, anyways!

          • Jay

            Jeremy, you are obviously bias, and that’s fine! Irrespective of that, you, robert and jason are trying very hard to push your bias on us. Why not agree to disagree? You seem to be ok with it, I’m not, in fact, I find it disgusting, but that is my prerogative. If this offends you, so be it. I make no apology! The charge of having a narrow mind can be applied to both, you and me, I propose. Robert has made some rather offensive comments about Christianity and the God of the bible. Seems to me, he obviously has an aversion to it and finds it offensive, and that’s his opinion, naturally. Is that ok with you? Obviously it is, as you have not tried to reprimand him or educate him as you try to reprimand and educate us when we express our aversion to homosexuality! Do you see your double standard and bias?

          • Jeremy Leochner

            Jay I wish to agree to disagree. Just know I dont believe all homosexuals are good just as I dont believe all heterosexuals are good. I figure get to know someone before you judge them.

          • Jay

            Jeremy, there are many documented cases of young homosexual men who have committed suicide, it is suggested, as a result of the lifestyle, and in particular, among those who underwent gender altering surgery. Of course, it could be argued that that is mere opinion, on the other hand, the likelihood that it was as the result of the lifestyle or gender transformation, should not be discounted.

          • Jeremy Leochner

            I suppose Jay. The only qualm I have is could it not also be argued that suicide could be the result of the rather obvious stigma and social difficulties that result from ones orientation or gender. I suppose perhaps indirectly one could count the gender/orientation as a cause but I feel the stigma and difficulties are the more direct and there for responsible cause.

          • Robert Smith

            If you are worried about suicide why don’t you outlaw smoking?

            Check this out from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide: “Cigarette smokingThere have been various studies done showing a positive link between smoking, suicidal ideation and suicide attempts.[44][45] In a study conducted among nurses, those smoking between 1-24 cigarettes per day had twice the suicide risk; 25 cigarettes or more, 4 times the suicide risk, than those who had never smoked.[46][47] In a study of 300,000 male U.S. Army soldiers, a definitive link between suicide and smoking was observed with those smoking over a pack a day having twice the suicide rate of non-smokers.[48]”

            Although I’m a strong second ammendment supporter I don’t deny facts: In the United States 52% of suicides involve the use of firearms.

            Fortunately for gun owners according to Gary Kleck that if guns are removed the suicide rate is still there. That proves that suicide is its own problem. But again the extreme right won’t give any money to treat it. All they use suicide for is to spread their lies about homosexuality.

            Rob

        • Robert Smith

          Hey Jay, what do you think the Chaneys should do with their gay daughter?

          Is that household going crazy too?

          Rob

          • http://?? Joe H.

            robert,
            according to you progs, he was crazy a long time ago. Which is it, going or been gone???

    • crystal

      This is sad. When you find homosexuals who hate God on the scale that Robert does, watch your back. Anyone who can speak ill of God is very capable of murder. Remember Mary Stachowicz.

      • Robert Smith

        Quit lying crystal. My training and weapons are defensive only.

        BTW, how many doctor killings have been inspired by your brutal god?

        Rob

        • http://?? Joe H.

          A lot fewer than babies killed by those same Drs!!!

          • Robert Smith

            Hey joe,

            A miscarriage is called a “spontanious abortion.” Your god is responsible for far more abortions than any other. Many women didn’t even know they were pregnant. They simply had a little heavier flow that month.

            Why don’t you talk to your god about that? Oops, he didn’t answer? Oh well.

            Rob

          • Patty

            Robert, that is sick. You are talking about a biological natural occurance that man has labeled as spontaneous abortion. I think there is a difference between that and the removal of a viable fetus.
            In nature, animals will abort a bad fetus (naturally), they will also kill thier offspring if it is not right. Many documented instances of mothers killing their offspring in zoo’s shows that the offspring had some genetic imperfection during an autopsy. Please do not compare a misscarriage to an abortion because there is no comparison.

  • http://marcum1@wildblue.net coal miner

    9)MLA University at Buffalo (2011, April 20). Primordial weirdness: Did the early universe have one dimension? Scientists outline test for theory. ScienceDaily. Retrieved April 22, 2011, from http://www.sciencedaily.com­ /releases/2011/04/110420152059.htm
    Note: If no author is given, the source is cited instead.

  • gerry

    Walker wanted the trial videotaped. SCOTUS said “No”. Walker then told the parties he was going to videotape but only use it for considering the evidence. He retired, took the tape with him, It was federal property, then in violation of his promises played an excerpt from the tape in public.

    The public has access to the trial transcripts and Walker’s ruling. Good enough.

  • Jason

    Maybe people would lighten up a bit if they had more sex!

    And for those quoting the bible to admonish gay men, it doesn’t say anything about lesbians. It evidently is OK for lesbians to go ahead and lots of girl on girl action. Many straight men seem to like that. Hmmmmm, maybe a double standard!

    • Cawmun Cents

      Actually Jason you should read Romans 1:18-32,before you make statements about Biblical scripture.It clearly states that both forms of homosexuality are forbidden and abominations to God.-CC

      • Jason

        Did you happen to know that Apostle Paul, the one wrote Romans, had homosexual urges? It is documented.

        • Jay

          Can you provide the documentation?

          • Robert Smith

            Yes Jay, I found this: http://home.messiah.edu/~chase/talk2/romans1.htm

            Remember, ignorance is curable. Stupid is not.

            Inform yourself and learn.

            Rob

          • Jay

            Robert, the link you provided contains nothing more then homosexual propaganda!!!

    • Jay

      Jason, you, Jeremy and Robert are beating a dead horse! It’s obvious what you are trying to do here, and that is, to convert us to view homosexuality as you do! Why are you trying to force your beliefs and opinion on us?

      • Jason

        Jay, by stating what I have learned by studying the bible, is just that, what I’ve learned. Since there have been many, many translations of the bible over the last 3,000 years, so many of it’s meanings do not pertain to, or translate well to our understanding of modern language and/or society. By posting a comment on a website, it is physically impossible to force anything onto anyone. I also don’t believe that what I have to say will convince or convert anyone to do anything they don’t want to. Lastly, I don’t beat animals – dead OR alive. :-)

      • Jeremy Leochner

        I apologize Jay. I have no desire to force views. Maybe its just that I have strong feelings since I both have friends who are gay and I have very strong feelings about human rights. I apologize for sounding forceful.

        • Jay

          I completely understand Jeremy, after all, this is a rather hot button issue, nevertheless, in the future I shall strive to present my views in a less inflammatory manner! Cheers!

          • Robert Smith

            Remember Jay, women, gays, blacks, American Indians, and even those of use who want freedom and equality for all in America are Americans too.

            Rob

          • Jay

            I never said they were not, what’s your point?

          • Robert Smith

            Just a reminder, Jay.

            So many from the extreme right think they have a menopoly on being christian and American.

            Rob

    • Robert Smith

      Jason posted: “And for those quoting the bible to admonish gay men,”

      But those bible thumpers… It’s a CLUB. Don’t you get it! The bible is a club.

      And they use it to beat people up who don’t agree with their interpritation of it.

      But then I have seen some christians who use the bible to spread love. Too bad the extreme right wingers tell us those folks aren’t christian. Who are we to believe? The brutal haters, or the christians who say love is a better way?

      Rob

  • http://marcum1@wildblue.net coal miner
    • crystal

      No facts again. More studies. What’s your point?

  • Jason

    Part of the problem with religion…

    We have little reason to think that violence inspired by Bibles and other religious texts will ever cease. One only has to look at the religious wars around the world to see belief’s everlasting destructive potential. One only has to look at the Protestant-Catholic uprising in Ireland, the conflicts in the middle east with Jews fighting Moslems & Christians, the Gulf war, Sudan’s civil war between Christians and Islamics, the Bosnia conflicts, and the war in Iraq. The desperate acts of fanatical individuals who have killed for their beliefs of Jesus, Mohammed, God or Satan would create a death list unmatched by any other method in history. The “Holy” Bible supports the notion of war and destruction, not only as a prophesy but as a moral necessity. If we wish to become a peaceful species, it may well serve us to understand the forces of belief that keep us in continual conflict and why the Bible has such a stronghold on the minds of people around the world.

    • Jay

      It’s rather obvious that you have never read the Bible! Your anti-Christian rantings you have absorbed and imbibed during your sojourn in the education system. They have done a masterful job in turning you into a mindless and mad dog! The tragedy is, that you are blissfully unaware!

      • Jason

        It’s rather obvious that you are incredibly arrogant and insulting. You ARE NOT serving God OR yourself!!!!!

        • Jay

          Serving myself?

          • Jason

            Just because we have a difference of opinion does mean you have to be a rude prick!

          • Jay

            You have been a rather rude prick yourself!

          • Robert Smith

            Jason, Jay… Please not in front of the kids. Please get a room.

            Rob

      • Jason

        It’s also rather obvious that I know historical facts. Have you been living under a rock somewhere? Do you know there’s a whole wild world of facts out there?

    • Jay

      Speaking of wars.

      A History Professor at a Junior college challenge his classes to comment on the following statement:

      Organized religion has caused more suffering, wars and violence than any other cause.

      Almost all the students raised their hands in agreement. He then demand that they provide dead bodies as evidence. They usually mention the Crusades and one or two other religious wars they might have heard of but in none of their examples could they come up with a million deaths.

      (Some scholars used to teach that the Thirty Years’ War in Germany resulted in 8 million deaths, but modern scholars have demonstrated it was more like 200 thousand and in fact the population of Germany actually increased during that war.)

      He then pointed out that most of the people who have died as a result of war, have done so in the Twentieth Century and that most of the killing was done in the name of secular ideologies.

      He then ask them who is the “baddest” of them all. Most guessed Hitler. He then told them that he is rated #3.
      Some then guessed Stalin and he informed them that most scholars place him at #2 with 20 million killed.

      Almost no one got #1 who, of course, is Mao who starts with an estimated 40 million. He then point out that the top two were Communists and Hitler was a radical proponent of Social Darwinism.

      All of these ideologies are based on atheistic systems. 


      Jason, it seems that you are the one living under a rock!

      • Jason

        You stated this earlier to Jeremy Leochner: “in the future I shall strive to present my views in a less inflammatory manner”. My, that was short lived!

        • Jay

          Why, because I called you a mindless mad dog? Your anti-Christian rantings confirms my analyses of you being a mindless, mad dog, you have zero understanding of the Bible and Christianity, only hateful arguments that have been deposited in you by socialist nitwits! Nothing inflammatory about that! Personally, you consider anyones opinion that is contrary to yours to be inflammatory! Get over yourself, and stop being such a baby! Would you like a crying towel for your tears, and some aspirins for your headache? Grow up!

          • Robert Smith

            Hey Jay, been on any crusades or inquisitions lately?

            BTW, have you read the “Maleius Malificarum” by Springer and another monk?

            It was the instruction book for all the torture and stuff.

            But I guess a religion that eats its savior is capable of anything.

            Rob

          • Jay

            Here’s another intellectually and morally bankrupt, socialist lefty, Robert!

          • Robert Smith

            Figure it out, Jay.

            You are supporting a god who has alamost killed the entire population of Earth. He has crushed cities and you support him. He killed all those first born and you support him.

            His followers tortured and killed during the inquisitions and crusades.

            An dare to insult me?

            ROVL…

            I support none of those things, nor the god that allowed them.

            Who is more civilized?

            Really Jay, where are your family values? Hate certainly isn’t one.

            Rob

          • Jeremy Leochner

            For the sack of argument. Jay: I am a social democrat and a “lefty” and I can assure you hateful arguments against christianity are not an invention or a belief of either ideologies.
            Rob: As an agnostic I can sympathize with you on the idea of hypocrisy in the history of christianity. But for the sack of decency I will say many a good genuine christian would never have condoned such things and I dont believe the entire religion can be blamed for the actions of violent extremists who use the religion to justify their actions.

          • Jay

            Who’s asking you to support anything? What I would appreciate from you is a more comprehensive, fair and honest presentation of historical Christianity!

            You keep harping and pointing out the corruption in Christianity, which, by the way, also plagues every institution, every organization and all social movements, including the gay movement, as an argument or reason to demonize and dismantle Christianity.

            According to this logic, we should dismantle every institution we now have, the government, the judicial system, law enforcement agencies, the education system and so on. The problem is not religion, the problem is us, or we, humans, who corrupt and spoil everything we touch. Guns don’t kill people, people kill people!

            We are dishonest when we fail to admit that we are the problem, rather then pointing to everything else outside of ourselves as the problem!

            I’ll start the ball rolling. As a famous Christian, C.S. Lewis, once answered the question posed by a secular newspaper, what is wrong with the world? C.S. Lewis answered, I am! Get the picture?

          • Jay

            Jeremy, that was a fair and balanced presentation, thank you! The same could be said of every other religion, organization, institution. As I stated, the problem is not any of these, but we, humankind!

          • Robert Smith

            Jeremy says: ” I dont believe the entire religion can be blamed for the actions of violent extremists who use the religion to justify their actions.”

            I’ve often cited Bishop Spong or Robert Schuler as christians who are not brutal but are in fact loving in their representation of their good.

            Around here I’m also often told they are not christians.

            What’s a person to do? I’ve got two groups telling me they are the true christians. One loving and the other brutal and hateful.

            Rob

      • Jason

        I know of those events in history as well. Sorry, no rock!

      • crystal

        Good points Jay.

        • Robert Smith

          Are you denying the inquisiitons, crusades, and the Malleus-Maleficarum?

          You can find it on Amazon: http://www.amazon.com/Malleus-Maleficarum-ebook/dp/B003TU1OOY

          They are real crystal.

          Yup, adds up to a brutal god who would let his subjects abuse humankind so much.

          Rob

          • Jay

            A drop in the bucket compared to the loss of humanity as the result of atheistic ideologies!

          • Robert Smith

            Not being christian is not necessarily being an atheist. BTW, I’m not an atheist so I guess I’m OK.

            BTW Jay, does the fact that others were so nasty make it OK for the inquisitions, crusades, and the cover-ups of pedophiles? Ohhhhhh, I get it! Someone bought them and indulgence. Sorry, I forgot about that. I guess all christians are OK now because they paid a few bucks.

            Rob

          • Jay

            No, it doesn’t make it ok! But you make it sound like all Christians were involved in those practises. Are there pedophiles in the gay community? You better believe it! Are all gays pedophiles? I would be an idiot if I said yes. Are there nasty and cruel people in the gay community? Of course there are! Are all gays nasty and cruel? No! And yet, you insist on painting all Christians with the same brush? When you do so, Robert, you are in essence practising racism. Think about it!

          • http://?? Joe H.

            No it adds up to brutal MEN who have freedom of choice and no doubt will answer for their sins in the afterlife as will YOU!!!

          • Duncan

            JoeH, as will you. As will all of us. So what’s your point?

          • Robert Smith

            Jay says: ” And yet, you insist on painting all Christians with the same brush?”

            I’m not, and quit lying that I do. Bishop Spong and Robert Schuler proclaim themselves to be christian, yet you deny they are christian. So, if you are limiting christanity to that crappy god that flooded the earth, smashed a couple of cities, and inspires so much hate as I see around here maybe there is a chance I am talking about all those christians who do just follow that brutal god. Maybe Spong and Schuler have a different god.

            Rob

          • Jay

            If you are not a Christian, then how could you possibly know for certain, who is, and, how could you possibly be able to distinguish between the false and true Christians? Because they tell you they are? Because they preach the bible? Hitler studied theology in a seminary, and so did Joseph Stalin, did that make them Christians? In order for you to be able to make that distinction, it would require that you were a Christian, first, and a true one at that. How gullible and ignorant are you??? As I said before, you cannot discount human nature! Guns don’t kill people, people kill people! The bible doesn’t turn people into monster, some people are just that, monsters! I read and study the Bible every day, and yet, I have killed no one! 99% of people who own guns do not shoot other people, and a lot of them are Christians. According to your assertion, that the God of the Bible, as well as the Bible turns people into monsters, all gun toting Christians, including myself, should be out there shooting every non-believer we could find, and all, as you’ve stated, in the name of that angry and viscous God of the Bible!!! Conversely, according to your assertion, anyone who doesn’t believe in the God of the Bible, would’t hurt a fly! What kind of convoluted logic is that? Human nature, Robert, human nature, and the God given right for every human creature to exercise his or her free will, is always the determining factor. Get that through your thick skull!

  • American Patriot

    It is truly amazing how much time and effort people will put into such a sick and twisted subject as this. But hey! Different strokes for different folks. What next, beastiality?

    • Frank

      Different strokes….

      The left hand…then the right hand…

      Rinse and repeat

  • voldemort

    Homos are oysters.

    • Robert Smith

      That myth about oysters…

      I got a dozen oysters one night and only eleven worked.

      Rob

    • Duncan

      That’s right, Homos are oysters. They make fabulous pearl necklaces for all the conservative woman to wear at their fund raisers. :-)

  • Leigh

    Never argue with Fools, People listening/reading can’t tell which is which…….Hmmmmmm?

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