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A Thanksgiving Lesson

November 20, 2009 by  

A Thanksgiving Lesson

Did you know that our Pilgrim forefathers tried communism when they first landed at Plymouth Rock?

How’s that for a dramatic beginning to a story? Years ago, when I used to give a lot of talks to high school classes, this was one of my favorites. It always got the students’ attention. And I have to admit, I also enjoyed seeing some liberal teachers get so upset with me they almost lost their lunches.

Here’s the story I told those students in those long-ago presentations.

The Pilgrims who arrived at Plymouth Rock in 1620 were incredibly brave and hardy souls. They were motivated by the noblest of virtues. They vowed, each and every one, to be as selfless as possibleto always put the needs of the group first. They agreed to own everything in common and to share everything equally.

And their naïve piety almost killed the entire colony.

We all know how the adventure begins. A group of devout Christians, seeking religious freedom for themselves and eager to "advance the Gospel of the Kingdom of Christ" in the New World, sets sail from Plymouth, England in 1620. An investment consortium known as the Merchant Adventurers of London paid the expenses for the trip, including chartering the Mayflower and its 40-man crew.

The deal was simple: The Pilgrims agreed to establish a colony in northern Virginia where they would plant crops, fish the waters and hunt in the forests. They would return a certain percentage of each year’s bounty to London until their debt had been repaid.

Things went wrong from the start. First, the syndicate changed the deal, drastically reducing the amount they would loan the Pilgrims. The brave adventurers were forced to sell many of their own possessions, and much of their provisions, to pay for the trip. As a result, they landed in the New World badly short of supplies.

Next, the small ship they had purchased in Holland, which was to accompany them to America so they could fish the waters off the coast, had to be abandoned in England.

Shortly after they set sail, the ship, badly misnamed the Speedwell, became "open and leakie as a sieve," as its captain reported. They returned to Dartmouth, where the boat was dry-docked for three weeks as repairs were made.

But to no avail. After leaving Dartmouth, the group sailed less than 300 miles when the captain decided the Speedwell "must bear up or sink at sea." This time the ships put in at Plymouth, England, where it was decided to go on without the Speedwell. On Sept. 16, 1620, the Mayflower set out alone to cross the Atlantic.

A month later, when they had reached the halfway point, fierce storms battered the ship and threatened the lives of passengers and crew. Many wanted to turn back for England. But if they abandoned the journey, they would lose everything they had invested. The Pilgrims decided to trust in God and sail on.

Despite the storms, the hazards, the crowding and the poor food, only one Pilgrim died during the voyage, a young servant. His death was balanced by the birth of a son to Stephen and Elizabeth Hopkins, who named their child Oceanus.

There were 102 passengers on board the Mayflower50 men, 20 women and 32 childrenalong with a crew of 40. The captain set a course along the 42nd parallel, a bearing that would carry him to Cape Cod. From there he intended to swing south and follow the coast to northern Virginia.

A little over two months later, on Nov. 19, land was finally sighted and the captain turned the ship south, toward Virginia. However, they soon encountered such "dangerous shoals and roaring breakers" that they turned back to Massachusetts. It was then that the grumblings of dissent turned into a full-fledged roar. Many of the passengers insisted on landing in Massachusetts, where "none had power to command them."

The Pilgrim leaders decided to meet the explosive situation by asking each male on board, except for the crew, to sign a formal document that would lay "the first foundation of their government in this place." Thus the Mayflower Compact was born.

The Pilgrims were a diverse lot. Many of them were illiterate. Yet in creating the Mayflower Compact they showed an extraordinary political maturity. They agreed to establish a government by the consent of the governed, with just and equal laws for all. Each adult male, regardless of his station in lifegentleman, commoner or servantwould have an equal vote in deciding the affairs of the colony. Of the 65 men and boys on board, all but 24 signed the agreement. The only ones who did not were the children of those adults who did sign, or men who were too sick to do so.

The first decision made under the covenant was to abandon efforts to reach Virginia and instead to settle in New England. The first explorers landed at Plymouth on Dec. 21, 1620.

Weather delays kept the majority from seeing their new home for nearly two weeks. On Jan. 2, 1621, work began on the first building they would erecta storehouse.

Because provisions were so scanty they decided that the land would be worked in common, produce would be owned in common, and goods would be rationed equally. Not unlike the society Karl Marx envisioned of "from each according to his ability, to each according to his need."

Unfortunately, thanks to illness, injury and attitude, the system did not work. Pilferage from the storehouse became common. Suspicions of malingering were muttered. Over the course of that first, harsh winter, nearly half of the colonists perished. Four families were wiped out completely; only five of 18 wives survived. Of the 29 single men, hired hands and servants, only 10 were alive when spring finally came.

The colonists struggled desperately for two more years. When spring arrived in April 1623, virtually all of their provisions were gone. Unless that year’s harvest improved, they feared few would survive the next winter. The Pilgrim leaders decided on a bold course. The colony would abandon its communal approach and permit each person to work for his own benefit, not for the common good.

Here is how the governor of the colony, William Bradford, explained what happened then. This is taken from his marvelously readable memoir (if you can make adjustments for the Old English spellings), History of Plimoth Plantation:

The experience that was had in this commone course and condition, tried sundrie years, and that amongst godly and sober men, may well evince the vanitie of that conceite of Plato & other ancients, applauded by some of later times;—that ye taking away of properties, and bringing it in communitie into a commone wealth, would make them happy and flourishing; as if they were wiser than God.

For this communitie (so farr as it was) was found to breed much confusion & discontent, and retard much employment that would have been to their benefite and comforte. For yet young men that were most able and fitte for labor & services did repine that they should spend their time & strength to worke for other men’s wives and children with out any recompense.

Once they replaced communal efforts with individual responsibility the differences were dramaticand life-saving. Men went into the fields earlier and stayed later. In many cases, their wives and even their children (some barely past the toddler stage) worked right alongside them. More acres were planted, more trees were felled, more houses were built, and more game was slaughtered because of one simple change: People were allowed to keep the fruits of their own labors.

The Pilgrims arrived deeply in debt to the London merchants who sponsored them. They worked for more than 20 years, as individuals and as a community, to pay off the crushing burden. In 1627, they borrowed money to pay off the Merchants Adventurers. By 1645, they had paid off the entire debt to the company which had advanced them the sums to pay off the Merchants.

When their debt had been paid in full (at the astronomical interest rate of 45 percent per year), the company that had advanced the sums wrote the Pilgrims:

Let it not be grievous to you, that you have been instruments to break the ice for others who come after with less difficulty. The honour shall be yours to the world’s end.

As we celebrate this coming Thanksgiving Day, some 380 years after the Pilgrims celebrated the first of this uniquely American holiday, let us remember the sacrifices they made… the devotion they showed… and the lessons they learned.

Until next time, keep some powder dry.

—Chip Wood

Chip Wood

is the geopolitical editor of PersonalLiberty.com. He is the founder of Soundview Publications, in Atlanta, where he was also the host of an award-winning radio talk show for many years. He was the publisher of several bestselling books, including Crisis Investing by Doug Casey, None Dare Call It Conspiracy by Gary Allen and Larry Abraham and The War on Gold by Anthony Sutton. Chip is well known on the investment conference circuit where he has served as Master of Ceremonies for FreedomFest, The New Orleans Investment Conference, Sovereign Society, and The Atlanta Investment Conference.

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  • Louis Gurske

    Thank you for putting us back to the beginning. We need very much to remember.

    • Jana

      Call your Senator today on whether you want the Senate to vote on whether or not to have a discussion on this Health Care Bill. They are voting on this tomorrow, Sat.the 21st. If they vote yes, it is almost a positive that it will go through.

    • Jana

      This truly is a great history lesson. I pray that we will not make these same mistakes again, as that is what this administration is trying to do to us.
      It didn’t work then, it won’t work now.

      We need to learn from history because if we don’t then we will have to suffer through some really bad years.

      • http://Yahoo.com Sue C

        Jana! Please do not be so naive! This administration is not communist! America was communist (in the hide) always. The only problem with most people, today, is that they forget, the past, and try to pin all the blame on President Obama. Remember! America is more than 2331/2 years old, and Pres. Obama has been the President of the USA only 10 months, today, 11/20/09. Thank you, Jana!

        • Helen

          You’re the one who’s naïve if you think Obama and his thugs aren’t out to remake this country by “redistributing” the wealth, what little will be left when they’re through spending. Wake up! Is this really the change you voted for?

        • DaveH

          Where do you get that stuff Sue? The US was started as a great experiment in freedom and limited Government. It was through the natural inclination of leaders to assume absolute power that we ended up where we are now. The citizens fell asleep as the leaders gradually increased their control over 2 centuries. This country became the great country it was because free citizens are productive citizens. Now Obama is tearing it apart faster than any past leader.
          You are the one who is naive if you think taking from the producers and giving to the non-producers is going to benefit the country.

          • eyeswideopen

            You want anarchy to rule in this country. Libertarianism is ethical egoism at it’s worst. You are fighting the Chrisitian belief of helping those who need it. The Christian religion is a socialist platform and we will have a hard time giving up our faith to go over to your side. Christians can’t walk by someone who is hurt or starving and keep going, and we aren’t supposed too.

      • http://donthaveone Beberoni

        And this administration seeks to take us back to these trials. Allready they want to take from me and give to those who dont want to work,and this admin wants to baloon this to no end.

        • http://Yahoo Dee D

          Can anyone tell me what the format for the John Birch society was?
          Also, it’s not JUST this administration that is taking us on a downhill spiral. Are we all so forgetful, we have mental blocks concerning all the others who have supposed to have been leading our once great country forward in a progressive manner to benefit all?
          No, lets not think for ourselves – it’s so very much easier and less time consuming to point the finger at one fall guy in particular. To do less would make us all look like the lazy villains we all have become.

          • Jo

            but dee obama is the one that took the job.it’s his repoonsability now! he promised change so how’s that hope and change comming along?Don’t be a sheep being led to slaughter be alamb who knows her master’s voice.

          • DaveH

            You’re right Dee, it’s not just one person, it’s Big Government in general. But Obama is campaigning hard to make it even bigger. Many of the very same people, who think Obama will save them, are being kept in poverty by policies that keep them from breaking free with hard work. The key to a good economy is to discover what it is that makes people want to work hard. Taking their rewards away is not one of those motivating factors.

          • http://Yahoo Dee D

            Jo – I am not a sheep. I also take responsibility for my actions, right or wrong. I do not drink from the Kool-ade trough and I positively know that Fauxx is propaganda and not news. I think for myself.
            Obama’s platform promised an improvement to health care. With little co-operation from the other houses and the NO and Blue dog members he has accomplished more in less than a year than any other administration has accomplished in over 40 years. So far it has not been shelved like the many other times an administration has tried to dust it off and try again. Just who has been guilty of it’s failure for so many years and why? Why aren’t we entitled to reap some benefits for our financial support of our so called reps?
            Yes, Dave – I agree Government is too big. We people are the Government, so why do so many voters keep putting the same bums and wanna get rich scum bags into office election after election? So few do a little research and vote accordingly.

          • http://Yahoo Dee D

            PS Jo – Who has been fighting anything and everything Obama has tried to do. The man is damned if he does and if he doesn’t. Someone fights him on every and all issues. Yes. he took the job and I want to believe he took it in good faith to try to improve America’s lot in life in every aspect we all encounter. But liars, rubble rousers, haters, trouble makers and many many school yard bullies are out to see to it he fails.
            Obama is not a magician and he can’t improve everything the last administration left for him to clean up overnight or the first year he’s been in office. After all it took the last administration 8 years to get us in this mess.

          • DaveH

            What Obama has accomplished is an increase of $2 Trillion dollars in the National Debt, a takeover of many of our banks, and a takeover of GM. And now, he wants to take over our health care choices.
            He has grown government faster than any past president. And he has done this in 10 short months. I disagree Dee that Congress has been no help. Without the help of Congress, Obama would be powerless.
            This is what your children and grandchildren are inheriting, Dee, thanks to the “accomplishments” of Obama:
            http://usdebtclock.org/

          • http://donthaveone Beberoni

            If you would have taken the time to read my post, I didnt point the finger at one person as you accuse. I pointed it at the whole democratic party, and that is, as you know, more than one person. It is a congregation of liberals who seek to take from my middle class hard earned paycheck, and give to to these guys sitting on a porch everyday drinking 40′s and smoking cigarettes, instead of looking for a job. Yes, Im not pointing the finger at one man, Obama whom you think I am. No, its not just him. Lest you forget Biden, Pelosi, Reid, Boxer, Feinstein, Daschle, Dodd, Dean, Rangle and more. The whole lot of them like to give to those who wont work, you know, with their big social programs, so that these so called down and outs, can remain down and out, and dependant on the government, so that the left can continue to get their votes. All these people who claim to be held down and have nothing, continue to live there year after year after year, and never advance, yet they keep voting for the democrats who give them these little handouts that keep them down in their place, dependant on the government. Unreal. But no, read my post. I never pointed at one guy. Its the whole democratic party to blame.

    • http://Yahoo Dee D

      Chip – Was Communism even around before 1776?
      It’s easy for us to label any activity as we choose, however may we maybe label it as it truly was? Together we can, meaning for the survival of all, each must do their part.
      Could that not be a healthy aspect for us now?
      Take two mules behind the plow pulling in opposite directions – very little plowing can be accomplished.
      In Washington, today we have so many different directions our so called eloquent, all inspiring, intelligent representatives have been leading us and we are so eager to do their bidding – we are accomplishing nothing for anyone the world over.

      • Jana

        Dee D, did you bother to read the article? They tried it, and it did not work. Plain and simple. When you take someone’s personal responsibility away from them and they lean on the other person doing all of the work we get Russia. We get Welfare. We get lazy.

        Ok, Dee D. I don’t want to work any more. I want you to go out and work and give me half of what you make. I might just complain if you don’t work hard enough and give me more money, but that will be your problem.

        • http://Yahoo Dee D

          Yes Jana, I read the article and even tho one chooses to label it Communism, so be it. But on the other hand would it benefit everyone if they choose to work together and help each other all the time?
          Communism in it’s true form is a better form of Democracy for all. It’s only polluted and made crooked by the men who want it all at everybody else blood and sweat except their own.
          Is it any different now than it was a few decades ago? Has it improved any or is it getting worse as time marches on?
          Mankind is the spoiler of everything. The uninformed and the do nothings but crtich about it are the enablers.
          Can we ever learn from past mistakes?

          • Jana

            DeeD, Exactly.
            Mankind is the spoiler of everything. There are too many gimmees out there for communism to work. Too many lazy people. So, you answered your own question.
            If you like Communism so much go and live in a Communist Country for 2 years. See how much you like it then.
            Just like Liberalism was really good, until it got perverted, just like Communism has.

          • http://Yahoo Dee D

            Thank you for your input Jana.
            But I am an American born immigrant and I think I will stay here if you don’t mind.
            You prove a point I try to make. Nobody’s opinion matters but the posters. You say if I like Communism I should leave America and go to a Communist block country.
            I would like any form of Government that would better the lot of every citizens life. As for saying I like Communism – I don’t think I said that. It was your interpretation of my post, which proves another point.
            I also have been guilty of misinterpreting comment made by other people and there we have the origination of screwed up dialog,
            ideas and in many cases out and out lies.
            It would be a utopia if all of us were perfect, alas none are, and yes a greedy person can take any issue and spoil the whole concept.

          • Jana

            Dee D,
            I did not say leave America, I said “If you like Communism so much go and live in a Communist Country for 2 years. See how much you like it then.
            That is not inviting you to leave! It’s inviting you to try before you buy. Another point, if you didn’t say you liked Communism you sure implied it. You bet I interpreted it that way, maybe you were trying to be deceitful is that it? You were sure doing a lot of bragging about something that you seemed awfully proud of.
            Capitalism has always made us a great Country. When bailouts of all of these corporations started, then Capitalism started going under.
            We would be starting to come out of the recession instead of still being smack dab in the middle of it. The government should not own or run any business.

          • Cribster

            Dee D says:
            November 22, 2009 at 3:35 pm
            “Thank you for your input Jana.
            But I am an American born immigrant”………..

            What the heck is an American born immigrant?

          • http://donthaveone Beberoni

            Understand this Dee. It is not the job or the position of the government to take care of the so called poor and needy. This is the job of the church. It is not the job of the government. It is the governments job to run the military, the police force and fire departments, the city halls and such to keep things in order. It is not their job to take my money, and give it to whom they deem worthy. The more they get involved in it, the worse it gets.

          • http://Yahoo Dee D

            Cribster – An American born immigrant is a baby born here in America to other American born immigrants.
            The only way any American citizen can be a full blooded American is if they belong to an Indian tribe, since the Indians were here before the white man came and done their dasterdly to them.
            If you check and you are not an full blooded Indian, I’ll wager your ancestors were immigrants — thus making you an American born immigrant.

          • http://Yahoo Dee D

            Think Jana- For me to live even one year in a communist country I would have to leave America – wouldn’t I? Or do you know where I may find a communist country here in America?

          • Jana

            DeeD, How long did it take you to figure out that we are NOT a Communist Country?
            You know the more you talk, the more weird you sound. You are one mixed up lady.
            Where ever did you get the idea that you were an immigrant. You have to be joking right? You do speak English and comprehend English don’t you? Something must happen somewhere between your brain and your fingertips.
            The definition of immigrant is as follows, although I realize you have made up your own definition LOL AY:

            Main Entry: im·mi·grant
            Pronunciation: ˈi-mə-grənt
            Function: noun
            Date: 1789
            one that immigrates: as a : a person who comes to a country to take up permanent residence b : a plant or animal that becomes established in an area where it was previously unknown
            — immigrant adjective

            You know the more you write the more you show that you are a Socialist. A true blue Socialist.

          • http://Yahoo Dee D

            Jana – I still love you like a sister. Have a very happy Thanksgiving.

    • denniso

      The Pilgrims didn’t come here to have religious freedom. They came here to exercise their religion and quickly suppressed others…sure, religious freedom for them, but not for anyone who didn’t agree w/ them. Not exactly my idea of ‘religious freedom’.

      • ’53 Korean Vet

        dennniso– In your post–where you said “the Pilgrims did not come to have religious Freedom-! You’re confused by the “Puritans” who 1st arrived in 1630 with Winthrop to north MA–they were members of King Henry’s Church–the Anglican Church, with rules written by said King, actually an atheist, not a “man of God”! These people dis-embarked from England–not from Holland! They had the ‘Salem Witch Trials’ & burned their victims at the Stake! The Families called the ‘Pilgrims’ did indeed move their families to Holland–away from England, because they disagreed in King Henry’s order, “that all other Relgions were outlawed in England, especially the Catholic, for the Pope threatened King Henry if he Divorced his Wife, Katherine–with excommunication!! The Pilgrims belief that the Bible was God’s Word, & King Henry said different–so they exiled themselves to Holland & finally decided to migrate to America–where they’d be free to worship as their belief! Now,you know the Truth, it’s a big difference in Pilgrims & Puritans!

  • robert bontempi

    how we get people to read this good piece in this impatient society?

    • http://none Chip Wood

      How about forwarding this Personal Liberty Alert to a bunch of your friends — and asking them to send it on to a bunch of theirs? You can’t force anyone to read, of course, any more than you can force them to think — or to take personal responsibility. All we can do is to provide the right opportunities.

      Chip Wood

      • Jana

        I will, thank you.

    • http://Yahoo Dee D

      Oh Jana – Me stoopid and bad. I did not say I was an immigrant – What I said was I will type slowly so you can keep up——————
      I AM AN AMERICAN BORN IMMIGRANT – LIKE MY FATHER AND MY MOTHER ALSO.
      The only way you can not be any kind of an immigrant is if you are a full blooded Indian as they were here when the rest of the world, came to and established America.
      Do you understand now?? Did I type slow enough for you?

      • Jana

        DD, you are just using a play on words. Nothing more nothing less.

  • http://www.freedomspitchfork.com VWmama

    Great article! Thanks for helping us remember.

  • KAOS

    Great history lesson!!! It is to bad our public schools no longer teach these lessons anymore, it doesn’t fit into thier agenda.

    • http://donthaveone Beberoni

      Great point. Our schools are no longer interested in teaching the truth to children. Instead they are hell bent on teaching their liberal agenda. The teach revisionist history, so it can read the way they want it to, instead of how it really was. I dont know where they got off track, but its been that way for quite awhile, and its only getting worse, and costing 10 times a much.

      • http://Yahoo Dee D

        No LIBERAL agendas is being taught in our public schools – nor CONSERVATIVE agendas either. Except in private schools that our tax dollars and vouchers support.
        Education today is being produced for the biggest amount of dollars that can be had from the government,property owners and any other avenue the incompetent administrators the school board elects to operate our educational programs.
        It’s so very important for our schools to produce healthy and strong sport figures so they can participate in all sports. Forget the education, grade the athletes on a curve so the dummies can participate in sports. Instead of educating the students lets furnish them with workout rooms, swimming pools, tennis and basketball courts and indoor and outdoor tracks.
        Teachers are no longer able to educate their students as they must follow all guidelines established by non-educators who have never spent a day teaching in the classrooms.
        The $$$$$$$$ have become the gods of all in our country (including the reps. in Washington) and to what extent some are willing to go to get all they can get.
        Lord help our teachers, had they realized all the money they payed to become educators (for our future citizens) would only reduce them to nose and butt wipers and not true educators.

        • Claire

          Dee D–You are absolutely correct in what you have posted. I opted to send my two kids to a Lutheran grade school and I have no regrets. Since we belonged (and still do) to the Lutheran church I sent them to Lutheran schools because of the turmoil in the local public schools. And one of the problems was racism. There, I said it but it was the truth at the time. At the time there was a lot of fighting amongst the kids and it scared me. Kids getting beat up and stabbed. I am not not stretching the truth here–it happened. Plus the fact that the economy in my state was so bad they chopped the school day to one-half day!! It is no wonder the kids in this state are not the most knowledgable. The teachers have a hard row to hoe and it isn’t getting any better. I also believe parents should try to teach and help their kids with their schoolwork. I realize both parents work in most cases, but somehow they have to try to find the time.
          Liberal or Conservative agendas are not taught in our schools at the present time nor in the past. You are correct about the “sports” factor. It appears more time is spent on sports and not enough on the good old 3 R’s. Where I live, they post the learning grades and standings–they are not good. The average grade is C-D in most of the subjects and with a handful of students that have excelled. There are fund drives going on frequently, asking for donations to buy supplies for the teachers to use in class. It is pathetic. The state I live in is pathetic. The politicans (Democrat and Republican) have caused one hell of a mess. And now they expect us to vote for them, re-elect them and trust them. The irony of it all.

          • DaveH

            Claire,
            When I was in my 20s, it took only one worker to make a decent living. My wife could stay home and take care of the kids. Then along came Jimmy Carter. Soon it took 2 workers in the family to make a decent living. What a shame.
            Big Government is the problem, not the solution.

          • http://Yahoo Dee D

            Sorry Dave – The mothers started working outside the home in the 40′s, before Carters time. So many of our men had to fight a war that the women had to fill in at the plants to make most of the equipment our men needed to fight with.
            Labor leaders, who up to that time thought that all women needed was to stay in the kitchen, pregnant and barefooted got their eyes open. Not only could the women do the job, but a lot faster, mistake free and for cheaper wages.
            The women learned also – We no longer had to follow our masters and cater to the men who agreed where womens lot in life was to remain. We could become independant. We had a long fight ahead of us but we gained a little ground.
            A working mothers job is 24/7. Work at a job, still do most of the work at home and still see to it our children were taken care of where a lot of males just sat on the couch, guzzling beer and watching their sports on the boob tube.
            There are husbands who do try to do their share but they are in the minority.
            Today, prisons are filled with children who had no guidance from either parent.

          • DaveH

            Dee,
            I have never met a woman who wanted to work if she had a choice. Heck, I don’t want to work, but of course we have to.
            I believe the women’s-lib stuff was started because Carter ruined our economy forcing women by necessity to join the work force. So, they convinced women that they were downtrodden and needed to work to get their self-esteem back.
            While we’re on that subject, if you believe that women need the pride generated by earning their own money, why do you support a political party that tries to make it easy for people to avoid working?

          • Jana

            Dave, I know you are right.
            In fact when I was rearing my children people would say “the workforce is going to pass you by.”
            Like I told them then, I am not stupid. After my children are grown I will pursue a career, and I did. I had a good one too.
            The reason children are in trouble now days is because they have no one at home who is there to listen to them. No one to welcome them home and show them love. Who is on your child’s side in the world if not you? If you aren’t teaching your children your values, they will be taught the world’s values by the other kids and even by the College Professors that are super Liberal Leftists.

            Just because a woman stays home doesn’t mean she isn’t smart. And one more point, if a woman marries a man that has a husband that just sits on the couch, guzzling beer and watching their sports on the boob tube, then that says you didn’t pick very good. It does matter who we pick to be the father of our children.

          • libertytrain

            DeeD – women have been working since the start of time – however, Dave is correct – the biggest changes occurred by necessity during Carter’s administration – at least it did for all the women I knew – whether they wanted to or not, work for both spouses became necessity. Everything changed re pricing during that time frame.

        • Jo

          what rock have you been under????

          • Claire

            Jo–if you are referring to me–maybe I was under the rock right next to yours.

          • Jo

            claire I was speaking to dee d.but now that you mention it we may be neighbors and remember we are supposed to love our neighbors.

          • Jo

            claire iwas responding to dee d’s statement about liberal agendas in schools.

          • http://Yahoo Dee D

            Thank you Jo. But I did not crawl out from under a rock either.
            I also love my neighbors and I love the non thinking imbeciles that my God created. I guess he loves them the best tho because they refuse to use the brains he gave then and he made so many of them.

          • http://Yahoo Dee D

            PS. Jo – I forgot to mention, they also get to vote.

          • http://Yahoo Dee D

            By the way Jo- Two of my daughters are school teachers and my mother was also a school teacher in the early 1900′s, in one room school houses. I will repeat- there are no liberal or conservative agendas taught in public education. That’s illegal. It can only be taught in private schools because the same laws do not apply to the private sectors like in the public sectors.
            The powers that be does not want our future leaders to be educated. Too much education and they will lose the power to lead and it may destroy the lifestyles they have grown so accustomed to. What we don’t know cannot hurt them.

          • DaveH

            Can we avoid the personal attacks please?

          • DaveH

            It amazes me that people who do their thinking with their Lizard Brains have the gall to call others “non-thinking imbeciles”. For an explanation of Lizard Brain see this:
            http://www.instantbrainstorm.com/lizard_brain.html

          • Phil

            Dee unfortunately has drunk the Koolaid and bought the same old tired lie, that marxism is good, that it just hasn’t been tried by the right people. Tens of millions of people have been murdered while they try to find the “right” people to make this experiment work. Lo and behold, here comes another far left group to get this right. I wonder how it will work out this time?

          • Jana

            Dee D if you daughters believe the same weird things that you seem to believe, then I feel sorry for their students.

        • Steve B.

          NO liberal agend is being taught in our public schools???? Just what sand-pile is your head buried in, and for how long has it been buried there???!!! Folks, this is the result of the “dumbing down” of America!!!

          • Claire

            I live in a smaller town, and I have several friends that are teachers. One teaches in high school, and the other two teach in middle schools. They claim that the Liberal agenda the Conservative agenda are not taught. When they discuss history, politics in any form, they do not promote any way of thinking, they do not try to impress their ideals on the kids. I believe these women. They are trying to do their best in teaching the kids and trying to instill the importance of getting an education. They are not contributing to the “dumbing down” of America. The main problem here in our town is lack of funds. Now, in larger towns it may be different. And it is certainly different in higher education.

          • Jana

            Clair,
            Even the textbooks for our children have liberal agendas. If your friends/teachers are teaching from the textbooks, then they can’t help but teach liberalism, humanism, as well as a lot of distorted history.

          • http://donthaveone Beberoni

            I agree, see my other post explaining the liberal teachings of todays schools.

          • kilrntex

            No child left behind. That is the dumbing of America. It’s meant to slow down the average student so the idiots can catch up. They need two levels in each grade, one for normal students and one for those whose intelligence is subpar. Don’t punish everyone for the stupidity of the few. Drop them down a grade and if they can’t handle that, then they can always pick tomatoes or fruit. We still need those people too!!!

        • http://donthaveone Beberoni

          So, your saying that teaching them that Johnny has two daddy’s instead of a mommy and daddy is ok, isnt liberal teaching? Or that we werent created by God, that isnt liberal teaching? Or that muslims love us and are our friends, that isnt liberal? Give me a break. And we cant pray in school, or say “One Nation Under God”. Now you tell me that isnt liberal. Unbelievable.

        • Michael

          “Liberal” no longer has meaning. Even so, publicly funded teachers are employed by taxpayers and thus cannot help but be influenced towards feeding the cow that feeds them. They in turn educate a generation of children that expect the cow to not only exist, but to grow as the population grows, and to add ever more social functions to the cow, and to remove from social memory any idea that the cow once did not exist.

          As these children become teachers and college professors they breed a whole ‘nother cycle of the same. Eventually you have brilliant people that are so indoctrinated that they are just plain wrong without being able to see it, so sure of themselves you cannot even engage such a person in rational debate.

          You see this most plainly at Ivy league colleges (google “Princeton” and “Decade of Greed” for an example). These students did not and cannot pay for their own education; someone else paid — OPM — other people’s money. It is a fantasy land, a Utopia, and they really do think they can change the world, but they are going to do it by changing YOU and using your money. It is their American right to TRY, but what is weird is that they really think it is fair, okay, acceptable to use my money for their programs.

          Just as Dee has written, the problem _is_ humanity! Until and unless you change the nature of human beings, make them more like ants, socialism cannot work.

          Religion exists to put bounds on behavior. Socialism is a type of religion, but lacking an absolute final authority it will always mean many things, the result of which is endless conflict and self-cancellation.

          Rosseau argues it very well in “Social Compact” or “Social contract” — there must be a mutually agreeable, transcendent authority for a society to exist. Socialism usually invokes Humanism which denies God, and hence, lacks the mutually agreeable transcendent authority to glue a nation together.

          To a certain extent, the Constitution is a “bible” and, so long as people reverence it, a kind of permanent foundation is given to this nation. However, as people trash the Constitution and change the meaning of its words that reverence will fail and so will the nation itself. People change the meaning of words in order to seek advantage over others. If you cannot change the law, change the meaning of the words and you have just changed the law.

          A test of your Constitution IQ: How many rights did the Bill of Rights create?

          None. It is a list of natural rights, pre-existing the Constitution and enumerated solely for the purpose of preventing the government from infringing upon those rights. There is little doubt that you have your favorites and some that you would like to take away; but don’t be in such a hurry to take away my rights, lest I be in a hurry to take away yours, and then no one has any rights at all.

          That is the fate of Socialism.

  • linda sandwich

    The AAPS (American Assoc of Physicians and Surgeons) published a pamphlet a few years ago titled, “the first thanksgiving”. You may look them up and request it. We read it at the Thanksgiving table that year and will plan to do it again. Thanks for the reminder!!

  • Ann N Proffitt

    This is going to all my Grandchildren! Just in case they may be influenced otherwise.

  • John Weaver

    Enlightening reminder that we learn from the past as we forge the future

  • nilo

    The Pilgrims learned not to be a welfare society where others worked to provide what they could provide for themselves. It didn’t work 380 years ago, and it won’t work today. GOOD ARTICLE.

    America has been conditioned to be a welfare society. Our children have been dumbed down. God is being kicked out, and we now see the fruits of our indifference to these things as we have laid back and taken our ease in materialism. What has been taking place for a long time is about to culminate in a loss of our nation’s soverengnity and the Constitutional guarrantees that our founders put in place. When Ben Franklin was asked after the Constitution was constructed, “what have you given us”, he replied, “a republic if you can keep it”. CAN WE? Only if we turn to God as a nation and stop this moral and political maddness! And only if we become vigilent again. PRAY FOR AMERICA.

  • Wanda Fournier

    I had never heard this part of history – Thank you for sharing it – I will share it with my family at this year’s Thanksgiving dinner.

  • Nathan Hale

    This should be required reading for those in power and those that put them there. Unfortunately this bunch will not read and learn from history. They regard history as “just a bunch of dead white guys”. Now because of their ignorance and arrogance we are condemned to repeat history. God help us!

  • Rick

    They were obviously anti-SEIU/ACORN people – ahead of their time!

    • http://donthaveone Beberoni

      Thank you. You have that one right.

  • http://www.tomdphotography.com Thomas D Dittmer

    Great article! Oh should the children of our society be so learned as to understand our government’s welfare state will leave us high and dry with no way to protect us from those who would cause us harm! I will forward this article to many – a great lesson is contained here. Pay back your debts – not bankruptcy. Honor your word. Not likely will a community collective flourish. Just a couple of things I got from this article – should be mandatory reading for all – including those who consider themselves elite and above the rest of us common folk!

  • Ann

    This articled reminded me of a series I had watched recently on one of our local religion channels….the particaular series from “Drive Through History” chronicled the founding of America and began in England with William Bradford, throughout the entire series from the pilgrims through to our Independence, minute references were seeded in that it would do well for our current government to take heed to the past, at the time I wanted to buy the complete series and send it to Washington.

    Good Job on this story and I would encourage all to locate the series I am referring to it is a wonderful history lesson.

  • Nora Hernandez

    Thank you for this excellent story. A reminder we all need, and one that I will be sure my children read.

  • http://honeypapa@gmail.com philip

    GOD BLESS AMERICA THIS THANKSGIVING. MAY WE LEARN FROM THE WISDOM OF THE PILGRIMS EXSPERIANCES. WE NEED NOT FOLLOW OBAMAS WAY OF FAILER AND HIS SOCIALIST MARIXIST AGENDA. THE PILGRIMS SHOWED US THAT SOCIALISM DOSE NOT WORK, AND FREE ENTERPRIZE DOSE. SEND A COPY TO OBAMA, POLSI, REID, AND CONGRESS, AND THE SENATE OF THE UNITED STATES. THANK YOU BOB AND HAVE A HAPPY THANKSGIVING

    • http://Google Helmut S Lenko

      English is not my “mother tongue”, Philip; in fact our small European country was taken over by Russia, but we were lucky enough to escape to Canada where we had relatives…I cannot believe your level of incompetence in spelling-it’s beyond belief! I suggest you get yourself a cheap dictionary from Walmart; God bless you too, keep trying!{ie expsper-iances,failer,marixist,dose -2x,enterprize,polsi}
      Retired Insurance Agent….

      • libertytrain

        Helmut – tolerance of someone’s spelling would be appreciated – not everyone can easily see the keyboard – or any number of reasons their spelling is not up to par with what some expect – again, find tolerance – -

      • Jana

        Helmut, I am so glad that you were able to learn to read and write English so well.
        Not all are capable of doing so however, as some people have dyslexia, or this may not be his native tongue either, or as was said above, maybe he just can’t see very well.

      • http://donthaveone Beberoni

        Especially when they were nice and polite and trying to make a decent factual statement. Now when someone writes in and is just lambasting someone spewing out their vitrial hatred, and mis-spells everything, then you can lay into them. But give this guy a break. He was being nice.

  • James

    Amen, for once we all agree! I would just remind us, that the second great experiment in communism we had was the 12 years of FDR. When he took office in March, 1933, tens of thousands had lost their farms, hundreds of thousands had lost their homes, and 25% of Americans were unemployed. In 1941, 20% were still unemployed. FDR had nationalized the entire economy (6 of his boondoggles were been declared unconstitutional). In U.S. v. Butler, the Agriculture Adjustment Act was declared unconstitutional, wherein the High Court held that Congress lacked power to tax one group for the benefit of another. (The AAA taxed food processors then gave that money to farmers.)
    Sound familiar?

    • Deb

      Then how can they get away with taxing smokers to pay for CHIP?

      Or the current spread the wealth plans they have now?

      Maybe I am being to “general”.

      • DaveH

        Because the people have let them.

      • James

        Deb, DaveH is right, the constitution doesn’t enforce itself. And those who do file lawsuits must have been harmed by the law they are contesting. For example the Health Care bills will tax the rich for the benefit of the poor, that is simply transferring wealth from one group for the benefit of another, but only the rich could contest it.
        Our problem is, most Americans think Congress has power to do whatever they want or can convince people of what they need. But the only powers Congress actually has are enumerated in Article I, Section 8 of the U.S. Constitution – read it. If that weren’t true their powers would not have been listed.

      • http://donthaveone Beberoni

        Because first they tax the smokers until they all quit, and the tobacco farmers are out of work. Then the realized how much tax money they have lost, so next they go after the alcohol users. After they destroy that industry, they will realize a lot of people eat cereal, so they will tax that to death. Then the candy bar eaters, then the twinkie eaters. They will always been searching somewhere to get more money in the tax coffers, when all they have to do is stop all this silly and stupid taxes, and let people and business have most of their money, and they would find that business then would grow, and more people would have jobs, and all these people would have more money to spend in all the stores and business’s around town, and the tax flow would grow and grow. But the left is too damn dumb to see it. I dont know why, they just cant see how their taxes screw things up. Look what just mentioning that a democrat was going to win this last election did to the economy. As soon as it became evident that Obama would win, everything shut down, in order to get ready to pay the tax monsters. Thats just how it is.

        • ’53 Korean Vet

          Yes, Beberoni– Does everyone know that there are over 20 taxes just on Bread-! They’re known as “Hidden-Taxes” because you don’t realize that you’re paying them as they ‘Trickle down’ from each industry! This is why I stand “Opposed” to Obama’s ‘Trap & Trade’, because of the “Fines” on Power-Corporations will double our Utility-Bills, & you ‘Tax-payers’ will “Pay these Hidden-Taxes” even though you make less than $90,000 per year! (That’s a ‘Fair-Trade’, isn’t it!?) Obama said “Let me make it Clear–that nobody will have a tax-increase that makes less than $149,000 per year-!” He’s said it over & over 12 times in his speeches–if you still believe him & his broken promises!

    • s c

      James, thank you much for the info on Franklin D ‘dumb ‘em down’ Roosevelt [progressivism's 'gift' to America]. If people understood FDR better, they might understand how comrade obama is nothing less than FDR-on-steroids.
      History teachers who taught in the late ’50s and early ’60s must be incensed at what happened in American classrooms, and rightfully feel that ‘modern’ history teachers should be washing dishes for a living (in Cuba) – especially scuzzy historical revisionists who attended Harvard and wandered into politics.

      • Another James

        The teachers of the 50′s and 60′s were teaching the students who went to college in the 60′s and 70′s, the liberal arts majors who are now running and ruining our great country. So I agree that those teachers would be appalled at the level of misdirection and misinformation being tossed at our children in the name of education. One solution is for all of us to make sure our children learn ALL of the facts about historical events, especially events we lived through which are poorly represented in their textbooks. Unless parents or a parent have the luxury to send their children to a proper private school that actually readys a student for college, the poor education received in most government schools is pathetic.
        This was an interesting read and my son who is looking over my shoulder said “what is this about sharing everything?” I said it is technically not sharing but redistributing. The ones who work the land to grow food are doing it so everone can eat and then some of the non-workers are doing “pantry raids” stealing food from the rest of the group. So you see redistribution does not now nor has it ever worked for very long. Any government that tried it failed miserably within a few decades, look back in history. The destruction of a country comes when a relatively smooth running system is replaced by government running everything in the futile and foolish attempt at creating a utopian society. A utopian society can only work if there are unlimited resources and a willing worker class to provide the labor for the rest of the group (Willing slaves). That my friends will never happen. So the next best thing (in socialist or statists minds) is what liberals (Democrats) are doing which is taking from one group to give to others, lining their friends pockets in the process. Free enterprise and people having some freedom from unconstitutional taxation is the best way to grow an economy, grow GDP, increase jobs for citizens, and be a strong world leader. The rate the liberals are going China is going to be the next great world power and we will fall just as the Soviet Union did. Imagine the United States as being split up into a few different countries. The south may get a chance at secession after all as a separate country.
        I personally would like to see America as the strong world power that helps the little guys all over the world remain that way. The bowing to communist and terrorist leaders by our new president is an insult tantamount to spitting on the graves of our fore-fathers and everything they planned for this great country as well as all the great men and women who gave their lives in the defense of our liberties and freedoms both here and abroad. Anyway, we need to educate our children so they know the whole truth and not just the short paragraph versions spewed from the mouths of liberal so-called educators.

        • DaveH

          Another,
          Isn’t it ironic that China is learning from the Free Market experiences of Hong Kong and may someday be more free and robust than the United States which pioneered modern freedom?
          As far as being the “world power that helps the little guys”, I think we would be more effective by giving them a shining example of the rewards of freedom and keeping our military home except for retaliation against those who attack us. People resent foreign occupiers even if they otherwise agree with them. Imagine for example how you would feel if Canadian military was policing our country, or if Mexican military was policing our coutry.

      • James

        S C, you’re right, 60 Minutes interviewed president-elect Obama, and the interviewer held up a just-published book “The First One Hundred Days” which listed all the socialist legislation the FDR Administration had sent to their rubber-stamp Congress, and asked Obama if he had seen it. He said “yes” and that he intended to follow it. He said FDR was his hero. Unfortunately that is true with most Americans, any poll ever taken on popular American presidents has always listed FDR in the top three. I believe that’s an example of the major media proclaiming something and the sheeple repeating it.

        • DaveH

          James,
          FDR’s policies kept us in 10 years of Depression. Can you imagine what the left would say about a Republican who kept us in 10 years of Depression?

          • Claire

            OMG–here I was led to believe FDR was wonderful. Now this.

          • DaveH

            Claire,
            Many years ago I dared to tell a co-worker that FDR got our country on the path to ruin. He came unglued. How could I disparage such a hero?
            Believe me though, I am by no means alone in my opinion of FDR.
            http://mises.org/misesreview_detail.aspx?control=49

          • Phil

            Dave is right. Most scolars now agree that it wasn’t FDR’s policies that brought us out of the Great Depression. It was WWII and the jobs that industries created. It it widely believed that the USA would have come out of the Depression more quickly if FDR’s plan wasn’t implemented.

          • http://donthaveone Beberoni

            You speak the truth about FDR. We are still paying today for some of the things he did. But to the left, he walks on water. Not true. He did a lot of damning things, and he also out and out lied over and over again to congress and to the American people to get what he wanted to build the Hoover Dam. And then there is that thing about voluntary tax paying, that we are still getting hosed with today. Gee, thanks FDR.

  • DaveH

    What brave people they were. Now many of our citizens want the government to care for their every need (at the expense of others).
    We have gone from a society of rugged pioneers to a society of wimps in just a few hundred years.

    • http://donthaveone Beberoni

      And its getting worse. In school, if a male shows one ounce of testosterone, they want to put him on ritalin. The dumbing down and softening of America continues. Thank the politcal correct left for most of this.

      • http://donthaveone Beberoni

        Make that the political left. I cut my fingers up today and have band-aids on 4 of them. Makes it hard to type.

        • DaveH

          Sounds like you need some Nationalized Health Care. Just kidding.

          • http://donthaveone Beberoni

            No thanks Dave, Im a working man, I cant afford what they want to do. Now if I was one of those worthless cats sitting on the porch drinking 40′s all day and smoking cigarettes, Id be all for it. I mean, wow, to get workers like me to pay for everything for them. What a deal, eh?

      • Jana

        Boy, you hit on something here that is a raw nerve with me: the feminizing of the men. Men wearing pink ties and pink shirts. Some of them look downright pretty and that is a shame. They need to look handsome, not pretty. They need to look like a man!

        I think I am going to start carrying some pretty pink lipstick and offer it to the next male in pink that I see.

        • Claire

          Jana—I have to disagree with you on this one especially if the men are waering pink for breast cancer awareness. I have a girlfriend that is going through chemo right now. The diagnosis is bleak. I could cry, in fact I have cried a lot lately but not around her. She is my friend and I will support her through this awful situation. Her husband wears pink to his office, and he IS a man to be proud of. Some of the men that wear pink are supporting breast cancer awareness. To me, that is not feminization. That is respect for the women who have this horrible disease from which most of them will die unless caught in time.
          Otherwise, I agree with you about the pink factor for men.

          • http://Yahoo Dee D

            Jana and Claire – Clothes do not make the person. Color does not make the person. All are what they are from the inside out.
            I form opinions that I usually keep to myself about the people I come in contact with. What they are wearing is not the leading factor.
            The smile – bubbly personality – friendliness and warm hearts are the leading factors for me.
            I was watching The View one day when Whoopie was responding to a negative e-mail from a viewer about her dress attire.
            I admire that woman for telling it like it is – She said, I choose the clothes I wear for my comfort and my personal tastes. If you don’t like it you can kiss my a$$.
            That is my kind of person, one so secure they are able to live and dress in the manner they choose without allowing any bimbo to influence them one way or another.

        • Jana

          Clair and Dee D, I truly didn’t expect either one of you to agree with me.
          In the first place, having men become effeminate means women can control them better. Right now men are put down on television in almost every situation. In commercials men play the dumb ones. In movies men never understand anything and it is the females that have to save the whatever. In the movies, the women are also the aggressive ones in sex too.
          Sure men, go ahead and wear your pretty pink clothes and get weaker and weaker in society.

          • Claire

            Ahhhh, the emasculation of men. Jana–you do have a point. But apparently the men don’t mind being portrayed as such, especially in movies–look at all the money they make!

          • Jana

            Clair, You are so right. Now they even have one supposed ‘man’ in a commercial carrying a purse. Oh excuse me, its a European shoulder bag.

            Still makes him look silly, and weak. How sad that we are convincing our children that men are supposed to be weak, and fathers aren’t really that important because they are bumbling baffoons who can’t think for themselves unless the wife or the child tells them how to think, and teaches them that men are probably not even necessary in the family.

          • http://Yahoo Dee D

            Jana and all posters:
            Thought I would give some a little up-dated news for fuel that’s going on and maybe a few laughs as well.

            There are over 100 icebergs drifting toward New Zealand. Is it possible or probable that Gore and Obama traveled North and kicked them loose to prove a point on global warming?

            Could Obama be guilty of going to Central Pennsylvania and cuttin a pipe at the 3-mile Island plant to cause the radiation leak?
            Maybe we need more plants LIKE 3-MILE scattered throughout all of America. That could be a faster way to kill off the residents in greater numbers.

            I wonder if Obama dreamed up 37 more charges for 2nd term Rep. Mark Sanford to face?

            Can we give Obama just a small tad of credit? Home sales rose 10.1% in October. Better not give him the credit, he might get a big head.

            I always figured there was more and deeper reasons for the illegal war in Iraq besides oil and killing Hussein. I just don’t think our Government cares about any citizen in any country based on the way they treat us Americans here at home. I just wasen’t smart enough to connect all the dots. Since Halliburton was given contracts by Cheney in Iraq after Afghanistan the dots are coming together for any interested enough in learning just how all citizens and our country have been sold out for a long time and is still being sold out.
            Pratap Chatterjee done an article on Paying off the War Lords—
            endemic nature of corruption and nepotism also in Afghanistan –
            a case study of what a mess American reconstruction efforts are in that country, established by Cheney/Bush/Halliburton’s army/and a well connected Texas Oil Company, revolutionized the way America makes war. I personally thought Tony Blair was in on it too, but if he has nothing to do with Texas Oil, I was wrong about him. I wonder how many refineries the Bush’s own and operate with illegals? I can see why Cheney/Bush wanted to legalize so many of them.
            If you are interested in learning more about this and even a piece on one of your hero’s – Palin go to CORPWATCH Website and Tom Dispatch.com

            HAVE A HAPPY THANKSGIVING ALL

          • Jana

            DeeD

            Your worrying about global warming does make me laugh. I guess you haven’t heard what the New York Times has uncovered. From the very scientists who are proposing all of this global warming garbage. How they have been twisting the facts to make them come out like they want etc.
            When we see the unemployed go back to work, then we can give Mr. O some credit, until then no. All that is happening right now with the economy is the government is spending all of the money, and printing more money. That is not helping our economy. Get the people back to work. Give incentives to the businesses to hire.
            So far O has failed. His approval rating is going down.

            For the rest of your diatribe which has been debated about with the liberal and Socialists for a long time now, I know it would do no good to even go there with you as you do not want to hear the truth or know the truth.

        • http://donthaveone Beberoni

          Dont forget the man purse thing. I see guys with those, and some think themselves to be pretty cool with them. I think, what a gay boy.

      • Claire

        I agree about the Ritalin issue. If a child has any type of behavior problem, doctors immediately put them on Ritalin. It is nuts. My neighbor’s grandson is on the stuff and she tells me he is wackier than ever. A lot of kids are taking this stuff and I have an eerie feeling about this drug.

        • DaveH

          Claire,
          Just my opinion, but I have observed that many of the ADD diagnosed children are extremely intelligent. They can’t sit still in public school because they are bored out of their pea-pickin brains. So the school officials want to drug them so they can be docile well-behaved students.
          I have a better idea. Put them in classes that will challenge them and keep their attention instead of drugging them up.
          Isn’t it ironic in our day and age of drug wars that government officials try to force parents to drug their kids?

          • Claire

            I think you hit the nail on the head! I will have to ask my teacher friends if they have classes for students that excel. Hopefully they do. Our state is in bad shape. We are rated #4, right behind California, therefore no extra funding for education. About 25-30 years ago, they started the Lottery and it was SUPPOSED to be for education. Yeah, right. It went into the politicians pockets.
            I guess the doctors and some parents believe this is an easy way out–keep them drugged and you won’t have to deal with it. It bothers me, because what happens when the kids are taken off of it? To me, it is scary.
            Most doctors want to give prescriptions for anything and everything. My husband has some health issues and I make a point to keep track of his medications-what they are for and what the side effects are. And I question the doctors if I have to.
            Sorry for rambling!

          • libertytrain

            DaveH – you might be on to something – education is certainly not challenging anymore unless you are lucky enough to get some good teachers but they too, often have their hands tied as to what they can do – I think the large city schools are probably the worst – small towns are usually a little better – that’s just been my experience – I’m not proclaiming any expertise on education -

          • http://donthaveone Beberoni

            This hits a nerve with me. When my son was in elementary school, they always made him sit in a grade above the one he was in, because he was bored with the simpleness of the subject matter. And he always got straight A’s. When he got into 7th grade, they would give them an assignment, not let them work on it in the classroom, and were told to take it home and do it as homework. So he was supposed to sit there for an hour in each class, doing absolutely nothing but sit there. He is a red blooded athletic all American boy male. He would get bored and get silly. The school decided he was hyperactive and needed to be on Ritalin. I told them over my dead body. So they made me take him to a doctor and to some A.D.D. tests, that cost me 468.00 because insurance wouldnt pay for it. The results came back, from the doctor, who said no way this child needs to be on Ritalin, he is quite brilliant. The problem was, the teachers didnt want to have to do their job in teaching these children. I was ticked that they do not do work in the classroom, but give it to them to take home. Then what the hell is the school room for? I got into it pretty good about this. There is a generation of children on this Ritalin crap that doesnt need to be, especially males that show any sign of testosterone, they want to feminine them down. Its not right, and I for one stood up and say no. I suggest other parents do the same. Problem is, a lot of this starts at home, where the parent doesnt want to be bothered with being a parent, much like the teachers at school, so they willingly put their kids on drugs so that they can shirk their duties. Man, Im telling you, there ought to be a law against this. Its just not right.

  • s c

    How true. And, how sad it is that our public, GOVERNMENT SCHOOLS continue to teach LIES about what made America great. It needs to be said that budding communists and assorted lowewr life forms don’t quit trying to influence one generation after another is their claim that ‘just because it didn’t work in Russia and China or anywhere else in the world doesn’t mean it won’t work HERE.’ RETARDS!
    Even the rockheads in Russia and China learned the hard way that capitalism works. Capitalism has had a rough time in America recently because it’s been constantly MANIPULATED by scum who should have been put in front of a firing squad. Communism is a self-made curse.
    God bless America and everyone who wants to keep it FREE. As for the rest, their master(s) can take care of them. They sold their souls to the “lowest” bidder. Enough said.

    • DaveH

      Capitalism only goes awry when government steps in with their bailouts, subsidies, and regulations to aid certain favored companies.
      Without Big Government the citizens would determine with their purchasing power which businesses fail and which businesses succeed.
      Big Government is the problem not the solution.

      • http://donthaveone Beberoni

        I agree Dave. Let the free market system work. If a company has a product I want, I will gladly pay for it. If they price it too high, I will either not buy it, or I will go to their competitor. If they continually make junk, people will stop buying it, and those companies will go belly up. Until that is, the government gets in the way, and gives certain choice companies billions of dollars to keep operating. I have to ask, why? Why reward failure? Why not reward success? Instead, government punishes those that succeed by taxing them more and more, and rewards those who fail by giving them billions. If they would just back off and let things take its course, business will take care of itself. Those that make a good product tht we willingly buy will live. Those that dont, will die. Why does the government throw good money after bad? Why do they even need to get involved? It is none of their business. Government intrusion screws up everything.

        • DaveH

          They are just buying votes.

        • Claire

          Food for thought: All the companies that moved abroad–were they overtaxed or did their employees demand too much money, benefits, etc.? I sometimes think we became too greedy or the companies became too greedy. Maybe both. The people in foreign countries will work a 12-hour shift or longer for a couple of bucks an hour. We as Americans do demand more, don’t you think? I have often thought about this, I wonder if we shot ourselves in the foot in some ways. I really dislike buying items made in foreign countries. I go out of my way to buy USA-made items. It is tragic, I am very happy when I find something made in the USA. How sad this is.

          • http://Yahoo Dee D

            Claire – Clinton proposed the NAFTA pact to the Republican controlled Senate and it passed. Never mind that it was originally Bush Sr’s baby.
            Since it’s passage, the next twelve years of all three houses have been rewarding our manufacturers for relocating elsewhere for the cheaper labor. Blaming the workers and the unions for all ails. Like dummies we consumers put the icing on the cake. Now, today it is almost impossible to find anything made in America.
            Let’s build more WALMARTS so they can accomplish their agenda and run all our old faithful retailers out of business. Then we will pay their price or do no shopping at all.

          • DaveH

            “It’s impossible to find anything made in America” because the Unions have driven jobs out of America. If it wasn’t for foreign ‘slave labor’ many products would be unaffordable for most Americans. Sure the Union workers would be happy as they gouged the rest of us. Without foreign auto competition we would be taking out mortgages to buy our cars. One real factor that could be changed is the amount of our financial resources that are being drained by Government. Let’s cut the size of government and put those former civil servents back to doing something productive. Imagine how cheap our products would be if we had more of our citizens working in productive capacities instead of hasseling people like most government workers do now.

    • http://Yahoo Dee D

      BeBe – It isn’t that the teachers do not want to help any student, in fact they all want to have students who are brilliant and can excel.
      For starters they have on the average of 30 pupils to a class.
      Cheney/Bush mainstreamed all students under the NCLB rule and that added to teachers problems and really hurt the brighter students.
      I do not want to say any child is handicapped, so I will say some may be slower than others. When any teacher is trying to educate all students it is impossible to give extra attention to 4 or 5 students who are unable to understand any problem anyway.
      God love all children but there are some who needs extra attention to grasp even trivial problems and yes they need to mix with their peers in many instances, but today most students jeer and laugh at any one who is a little different. That is one reason so many children go off center in many cases, destroying themselves and other innocents. That’s one reason I am for more parents being held responsible for their children’s actions. But alas, it’s easier to blame the teachers who have guidelines they have to follow and teachers have to waste a lot of time (taken away from teaching the 3 R’s) to prepare their students for the all important SAT tests (that are drafted by people who have never taught in a classroom) that means money to the school.
      Thank you for taking a stance for your son – we need a lot more parents like you.

  • Bob

    The majority of Americans under 40 are products of a dumbed down education system that changes history to meet a liberal, anti-God point of view. You can thank the ACLU for that. It is great to hear the Thansksgiving story as it happened vice the political correct version. America must wake up and think before it dies like the ealy Pilgrims did not realizing free-enterprise is what God intents for man. Since the 41st Cogress was seated America has been brain-washed by those who beleive in communism and in 2008 they accomplished a major gaol in their quest to take down America. 2009 could be the end if Americans do not stand up for what has made America great, the knowledge that America exists only because of God’s blessing.

    • http://donthaveone Beberoni

      The ACLU – Anti-Christ-Lawyers-Union. They should be banned from the United States of America.

      • Bob

        The ACLU should definitely banned in America. I like to call it the Anti Christ Lucifers Union

        • http://donthaveone Beberoni

          Thanks Bob. You got it right.

    • James

      Bob, Amen, it could even be argued we are now under God’s judgment.

    • http://www.ourlivingconstitution.com Dennis

      Our Constitution has been under attack since 1860 (election of Abraham Lincoln). Prior to Lincoln Henry Clay was the champion for Strong Cenralized Federal Government. Prior to Henry Clay it was Alexander Hamilton. The work we have before us is an accumulation of 150 years of legislation and thought process that must be turned back. If not for ourselves, then for children, grandchildren, and great-grandchildren.

      My wife and I have been writing issue letters to congress based upon concepts documented in the US Constitution. We believe the US Constitution provides us with all the tools required to return our country to it’s greatness.

      We have published our letters at http://www.ourlivingconstitution.com. Please feel free to read the letters, copy the letters, modify the letters, and send the letters to your senators and representatives.

  • Robert

    Very nice informative article. Makes one reassess their own life and ponder about their future.

  • Earl, QUEENS, NY

    Recently we read about the 20th anniversary celebration of the fall of the Berlin Wall and communism. And yes, that was a great moment during the Reagan/Bush era. Whoever dreamed back then that today we would have the antithesis – a leftwing radical Marxist in The White House? It’s amazing to think of how so much of the world has rejected communism and gotten rid of it over the past two decades. But thanks to some 63,000,000 stupid voters on 11/4/2008, we are going in the direction of what Russia and East Germany used to be. If we don’t get rid of this leftwing Congress and administration in 2010 and 2012, we may have a big wall to tear down in our future!!

    • kattie chg.

      Earl, I second that motion! However, I dont think we have that amount of time, to wait, surely we can’t wait for another presidential election.
      Pelosi, Reid, all of them must go immediately! We have to have a clean sweep of the entire administration, NOW…Obama has to go! I dont have an answer or solution..on the web AmericanGrandJury.org, it appears Obama has enough of his cronies in there, we can’t get him impeached.
      Happy Thanksgiving to all, pray for our country!

    • http://donthaveone Beberoni

      Im not so sure they were all stupid, as they were ignorant, and hypnotized by the brain sucker in their living rooms saying change-change-change to the tune of millions of dollars. Uneducated people pulled that lever. I hope they have learned now.

  • Denese

    Wouldn’t it be great if our children learned actual history in schools rather than the liberal re-writing of history that they get in their school books and from their teachers? Everyone should read this to their children and anyone else who will listen. If we don’t learn from our mistakes we will repeat them. Our government leaders should learn this lesson from the Pilgrims instead of trying to take us down the road to Socialism/Communism.

    • http://donthaveone Beberoni

      And soon the revisionist history the left writes, will have chapters in their history books about Barack Obama being the greatest thing since sliced bread. Gimme a break. How do they get away with it?

      • DaveH

        We need to push hard for the Voucher System so that people don’t have to send their kids to the Propaganda Schools.

        • http://Yahoo Dee D

          Please don’t contradict yourself Dave.
          What are vouchers but federal handouts?
          Private schools have turned out a lot of one party citizens. Public schools cannot do the same. It’s illegal.

          • DaveH

            Contradiction? Most public schools spend more money per student than private schools do. I am talking about choice and even for less money. How is that contradictory? I thought you Liberal women advocated choice?
            http://www.cato.org/pubs/briefs/bp-025.html

          • DaveH

            And to your last sentence Dee, all I can say is “mmm mmm mmm Barack Hussein Obama”.

          • http://Yahoo Dee D

            Dave: Maybe you are told that public schools spend more money per pupil than private schools. But I’m in a position to know first hand just how much many teachers pay for supplies out of their pockets to give their students the proper tools to learn with. Parents also lack in this department. They should supply their children the tools necessary for education but first they need to drive home that school is a place to learn, not to play around, pick on other students, laugh at other students for their attire or dirty and smelly clothes.
            Does the private sector have a clue on how a lot of money is wasted on many frivolous and unnecessary programs our school board approves of?
            Does anyone know just how much money is being made at sporting events, concession booths, and rental of the rooms in the schools to different groups for special events. Play’s, dancing recitals etc.?
            How many people really get involved in their childrens activities to try and learn anything?
            If we are unable to get involved at a local level and try to help to improve the situation and hold our administration responsible for the betterment of our future leaders how in heavens name can we expect our voters to truly get involved at a federal level to try to make a difference?

          • http://Yahoo Dee D

            Dave – I also advocate intelligent choices to be made by all. But who of us are so super intelligent that it is our right to make any decision for anyone other than ourselves? We will be the one to answer for every decision we make,right or wrong.
            To what tune are you mmmmm mmmmm mmmming Barack Hussein Obama to?
            You don’t have to play coy with me. I trust very few politicians but I refuse to kick anyone and profess to have all the answers while they are down.
            I do not want anyone to swear by any opinion I post. Please, don’t take my word for anything. Research for yourself. You may learn a thing or to or maybe get over tunnel vision.

          • http://donthaveone Beberoni

            Evidently your schools are different than those here. The public school teachers here want to shove Ritalin down all the childrens throats so that they dont have to be bothered with doing their jobs. I am one parent that was involved in my kids growing up and helping them, and guiding them, but the school system is a total failure. They give work that isnt allowed to be done in the classroom, and the teacher sits there and reads books. Not just one teacher, all of them in every class room I sat in with my child on those days, you know, where you go to school with your child. I was appalled. I remember very clearly when I went to school, to actually being taught. It doesnt happen anymore. Pretty much, the failure of the school system, is a two pronged problem. No discipline, and crappy teachers that just dont care. Thats about it. I know, I was there and watched it first hand, with two children that were 3 years apart. It stinks.

          • ’53 Korean Vet

            Dee D– You said you were in position to know how much Teachers had to pay for poor students’ supplies– My question is this–How much do today’s Teachers have to pay for NEA Dues–in order to be certified to teach, this being controlled by the Union’s Officers, who endorsed giving Dues-Funds to compaigns to overturn the “Defense of Marriage” Amendments in various States! Just think if they didn’t have to pay these Union-Dues–they might have more money for students’ supplies! Isn’t this True or False-!? This isn’t to put you down–just to supply other posters with information–they may not know-!

        • Phil

          Poor Dee contradicts herself within each paragraph she writes. She reminds me of the typical liberal who thinks she knows it all but really knows nothing. But she is ready to push her vacuous views on everyone else.

          • http://donthaveone Beberoni

            I would believe that she is of the thought tank to just keep pouring more and more money into it and itll be allright. You and I both know that isnt the solution, but she doesnt get it.

          • http://Yahoo Dee D

            Phil – Please by all means educate me. Show me where I have contradicted myself and I will thank you and blow you a kiss.

          • http://Yahoo Dee D

            BeBe: No teacher gives any student any kind of medication, not even an aspirin. Fear of being sued by parents who do not educate their children.
            If a student slaps a teacher the teacher is not allowed to defend themselves again a lawsuit.
            A teacher must not try to teach any morality to a student. That’s a parents job. lawsuit
            A teacher cannot even give a needing child a hug – lawsuit and lies about perverted actions. If any of you doubt what I’m saying – volunteer to substitute for even a short stint for any teacher in any classroom and learn for yourself.

          • Jana

            Phil, I have come to the realization that DeeD, although probably a very nice person is still a Socialist. This is what we don’t want for our country, Socialism.

          • denniso

            Dee D is trying to have a civil discussion and you people can only resort to name calling!!Why can’t you resist that tactic? Is it because your own positions are so weak that you have nothing substantive to say, so all you can do is label her and call her names? Grow up!!!

  • Larry

    The lessons of liberty abound and they flow effortlessly because truth lives where lies perish. Unfortunately, we have a lot of liars.

    • http://donthaveone Beberoni

      Pelosi, Reid, Boxer, Feinstein, Frank, Dodd, Biden, Obama, Clinton, Emanuel, Daschle, Dean, Bayh, Rangel, Sharpton, Jackson, just to name a few.

      • Claire

        Don’t forget to add Karl Rove, George W. Bush, Joe Lieberman, Joe Wilson, Boehner, Jindal, Guiliani, McCain, Palin, Sanford, just to name a few.
        Republicans and Democrats are of the “same cloth.”

        • DaveH

          We put them in that position thinking they should be able to best manage our lives. They can’t and they won’t. If we don’t care enough for ourselves to take good care of ourselves, then we sure can’t expect anybody else to do it.
          No politician can live up to those expectations, so the ones who get elected are the ones who tell us those sweet sounding lies.
          The only way out of this is to elect people that promise to cut back the size of government and put individuals back in control of their own lives. And if they don’t keep those promises – out they go in the next election.

          • Claire

            Very true–but look how long we have to wait until the next election! They all promise the moon and instead we receive meteors.
            I have always tried to vote for the person I felt would do the best job and be the best–somehow it never works out that way. Democrats or Republicans–never live up to their promises. But then again, sometimes the President’s hands are tied in some ways because of opposition. Look what is happening now. A mess. The elected people are supposed to be “smarter” than us. They were supposed to be intelligent and figure things out. All of their combined years of “experience” amounts to nothing. They certainly have not learned very much in all those years.
            Oh, I notice that Obama looks like his hair is turning grey. You have to admit being President (Republican or Democrat) would have to be extremely stressful and yes, frightening at times. How can they sleep? It is a tough job to have.

          • DaveH

            Claire,
            The first thing people need to realize is that the politicians aren’t ‘smarter’ than we are. They are just our neighbors who have assumed the right to make our choices. And even if they were, could they possibly know what makes each of us individuals happy? Only we know what makes us happiest and we need to get them out of our individual choices.
            One point I’d like to make is that basically the government is like insurance. They insure us against misfortune. But the question is, if we knew how much that insurance was costing us, would we voluntarily purchase it? Think about how much you pay in all taxes each year (roughly about 40% of your income) and then ask yourself how much they actually do for you. It’s like buying insurance for $1000 when the most you can ever get back (having suffered misfortune) is $500.

            This country became great under Limited Government (in the past) and is becoming mediocre under Big Government.

        • Billy

          That’s reason to vote everyone out of office. And not to vote anymore lawyers in.

          • http://Yahoo Dee D

            Sounds very good and wise BILLY.
            But, if past performance records are sealed and hidden anywhere the public has no access to and the so called news media is not willing to investigate and give us no intelligent facts, How are we to know who is a Lawyer, Doctor or any other form of intellect to cast a vote for?

          • DaveH

            Dee,
            Here are two sources to see exactly how your Representatives are voting:
            For the House of Representatives
            http://clerk.house.gov/

          • DaveH

            For the Senate:
            http://www.senate.gov/

          • http://Yahoo Dee D

            Dave – I do indeed follow the votes taken in all three houses. I do a lot of research myself and some of my opinions I do not declare. If you will notice, I ask a lot of questions. I do not try to influence any one to belong to any particular party. I really want all to research on their own to educate themselves and not rely on hearsay.
            I do not like stupid ideas from people who have done no research when they make it so obvious of whom they are repeating and there is no substance in their remarks. Only mimes playing a game that perhaps they truly believe in. For these people, I pity because when all the roosters come home to roost these very same people are at a loss as to why it happened.

          • http://donthaveone Beberoni

            I would agree Billy to vote out the incumbants to send Washington a message, that we are the ones with the power, not them, and if they dont do what we demand, they are gone.

        • http://Yahoo Dee D

          AMEN Claire – Tell it like it is.

          • ’53 Korean Vet

            For Dee & Claire & Dave–My hard, but helpful information came from a web-site– http://www.discoverthenetworks.org & then click on ‘Individuals’ like Jane Fonda, or Barack Obama– Had Details–the General Voters did not have for this past election… You asked who are the Lawyers? You got the Details on where they even went to School– Cheers

          • Jana

            53 Korean, I went to that site. Wow, I had no idea Keith Olbermann was so bad. I will use this site often.

        • http://donthaveone Beberoni

          Shoot, I love all those guys, except for McCain. He is too far left for me. Thats why he lost the election. It was a young lefty versus the old lefty, and the young lefty won. Palin would have kicked his butt.

    • http://Yahoo Dee D

      Yes, Larry and when we are not being lied to they are trying their best to get all to hop on board for whatever cause they believe in.
      Everyone must do what they believe is best for themselves without anyone trying to lead them.
      Give me facts that I can check out – who knows, I may jump on board, but in the end it has to be what I want to do and not what you tell me I must do.

      • DaveH

        Dee,
        Read this book. It’s free online and it’s an eye-opener. It was written in the 70s so some of the examples are outdated but the principles are timeless:
        http://mises.org/rothbard/foranewlb.pdf

        There are later releases in Libraries, and maybe for purchase online but I haven’t checked that out.

  • Tom in MI

    I grew up in a socialist paradise and voted with my feet in 1956. One of the great punishments of socialism was the hoplessness: I graduated from college in 1955, had my first job soon after grasuation and was able to project my salary for the next 25 years, no matter how good or below average my performance would be. Showing up for work was rewarded the same way as excellence. The only difference came from joining the Communist Party: that opened doors to graduate programs, job advancements and opportunities to, and recognition of achievements. The first few years in freedom was more difficult than the life I left behind but I knew that by keeping my nose clean, studying and hard work a better life could be attained. My wife and I have not been disappointed. Now we are worried that our savings (wealth?), the result of hard work a modest living, are in danger to be “spread around”. Any suggestion how to vote with our feet when we are in our mid 70-s????

    • DaveH

      My neighbors have had similar life experiences. They escaped from Czechoslovakia about 35 years ago and now they are seeing events very similar unfold here. They are resigned to a Socialistic society now and feel there is no hope. I think they are wrong. With our history of freedom, I am betting that we will pull away from Big Government.
      I think our best bet lies in the Libertarian Party:
      http://libertarianparty.org/platform

      Libertarians believe in Limited Government, individual freedom, and individual responsibility. I think they would bring peace to this country because people would be able to make the choices that suit their own lifestyles. If their choices were wrong and they failed, then they would have to convince friends or charities that they deserve help. There would be no forceful taking of money from the people that made the right choices. That is the only way people (or companies of people) learn from their mistakes. And imagine how good those people would treat others if they knew they might need friends later to help them out.

      • http://donthaveone Beberoni

        We need to do something. Im all in.

      • Claire

        The Libertarian party sounds great, but when it comes down to the nitty gritty the majority of the people vote for the Republicans or Democrats. How can a Libertarian ever be elected for the Presidency? For the Senate? For the House of Representatives? It would be quite a struggle to acquire this.

        • DaveH

          Claire,
          Right now they don’t get much exposure. Very few people in high places want their high paying jobs to be subjected to the free market. And the media moguls are no exception. Foxnews though is giving an increasing voice to Libertarians (Stossel, Beck, Napolitano).
          The government leaders don’t want them due to the Limited Government platform of the Libertarian Party.
          If more people that believe in the Libertarian concepts would join the party, the media would have an increasingly difficult time ignoring them. Currently very few people even understand what the Libertarians stand for.

          • Claire

            Dave: For the most part, the best things in life do not receive the credit and recognition they deserve. Sometimes I wonder at how people can choose the path they take–there is so much good in the world if we would only find it and use it to the best of our ability. We could create a great nation again and prosperity for all. I can remember my mother’s comments–hellbent for destruction.

          • ’53 Korean Vet

            What’s really a ‘Sad-Truth’ there doesn’t seem to be any wealthy funds for another Independent Party! Just for Obama’s swearing in as Presidents ‘party’, they spent over $100 million bucks–that’s enough to run a candidate for President & the Advertising on National TV-! Both–Democrats & the Republicans have ‘Four-Aces’ or Royal-flushes in this Game of Politics-! You pay big–to play-!
            But about Turkeys, be sure he doesn’t see you coming-! Cheers

        • http://donthaveone Beberoni

          No struggle isnt attainable if you seek the right power to do it with. Remember a guy named Jesus that was put on a cross? There were 12 guys that carried His name along, and there are millions today. The only struggle one cant win, is the one he isnt willing to fight for and get his hands dirty over.

        • denniso

          Claire..Libertarians can’t get elected except in rare cases. We have a 2 party system…work w/in one of them for the positions you believe in rather than waste your time and energy in a fringe party.

          • Claire

            This is all very well and good, but I have lost respect for the Democrats, the Republicans, and basically all politicians. This last election frustrated the heck out of me! I became very weary of all the mud-slinging. I wanted to see and hear the truth,I wanted to see common sense and candidates that used their brains when they spoke instead of spewing the nonsense that came out of their mouths. The news media was disgusting, a person did not know what to believe, and the corruption here in Illinois this past year was unspeakable. I realize you can’t blame everyone but my gosh, don’t you wish for just once in a person’s lifetime that there would be somebody that would run for an office that would be honest, sincere, a truthteller, upstanding, courageous, thoughtful of America and her people? I guess I live in a fantasy world. Sorry, but right now I am in limbo.

  • Di, Cerrillos, NM

    Did anyone notice that the Pilgrims were headed for Virginia? As though Virginia already existed? If that is the case, then the Pilgrims were NOT the first europeans to settle in America. They were still slaves until they paid off the investors, why didn’t they just tell the investors to come get their money, in a leaky boat! Were there soldiers there to protect the investors money? Also, if people were stealing from the storehouse, that means that some lacked the integrity to understand that they all needed to pull together for awhile until they had established a self sustaining colony. Obviously,I have questions about even this ‘history lesson’.

    • jbird

      You have questions but you are too lazy to research or study it. I could answer for you, and I’m sure Chip Wood could too, but why should you benefit from the fruits of our labor. Look it up yourself!

    • DaveH

      Virginia was established in 1607.
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virginia
      Before you lash out at others, you should do some research.

    • DaveH

      And you wonder if some people might have lacked integrity? Come on, look around you. We are surrounded by people who want to redistribute the wealth (translation: Steal). Do you think people without integrity haven’t existed throughout history?

      • http://donthaveone Beberoni

        Im sure there were cavemen that bopped another over the head to steal his food. Judas gave up Jesus for some silver. Cain killed Abel because he was jealous of him. Its been going on since the beginning. And still man doesnt get it. And worse yet, we have leaders that dont get it.

        • DaveH

          Oh, they get it. They know exactly what they’re doing. It’s their blind followers that don’t get it.

    • http://donthaveone Beberoni

      They probably knew that Robert Byrd would come along some day, and didnt want to be associated with him.

    • denniso

      Di, good comment. How is Marc Simmons doing in the pleasant village of Cerrilos?

  • http://www.winfreebids.com Dennis Zimmerman

    It is amazing to me that we are still having this discussion. Although, we in Canada, did not have that exact same beginning as our cousins to the south, we have known since early school days, that communism doesn’t work and didn’t work in the former Soviet Union and any where else, where freedom was allowed for it’s citizens. The left just wants power for power’s sake and that has always been their objective. As we all know, power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely. May we all rise up to make sure that freedom reigns in the U.S. and Canada

    • DaveH

      Thank you Dennis.

    • http://donthaveone Beberoni

      Amen brother. Hows it working out in Cuba? Those people live in absolute poverty, while the Castro’s and his boys live high off the hog. It could be a very successful, beautiful resort place, but communism took care of that. It didnt work out for Russia. Ask East Germany. Oh wait, they dont exist anymore. Socialism has been tried and it has failed at every turn. Give me the free market system of capitalism anyday. A man should be able to succeed from his hard work, much like the pilgrims in this story, once they were allowed to see the fruits of their labor. But now our government has gotten so big, they punish this, and reward those who lay around and do nothing. Its just not right, and it needs to end.

      • DaveH

        Yep. We need to eradicate the politics of envy.

    • Stella Aleman de Gallardo

      The communism practice by the indigenous people, is not the same that the idea of Marx and Engels. They share, and specially share their land. We need from them. People are so ignorants, that they need to take a book and read they real history.

      • Billy

        Marx and Engels never worked, they stole from other people. There are no good communists.

      • DaveH

        Like the history of Cuba? Where people will risk their lives in small crowded boats to escape?

    • denniso

      Dennis…You people forget that Communism ‘worked’ in the Soviet Union for about 65 yrs..it took a poverty wracked peasant country up to the level of the U.S. in only 30 yrs. Whether it was humane or not is another question, but it is not intellectually honest to say that it didn’t work. The huge amount of $$ spent on the military helped bring it down. Not so talked about is the role that our own trillions wasted on war may have helped bring about our economic crash. Let’s try to be honest.

  • Marsha Clark

    Thank you for this information. I would love to read William Bradly’s book and pass this information on to my nieces and nephews.

  • Annette

    WOW! Thank YOU…This needs to be a story told and RETOLD.
    Imagine, most of us NEVER heard this. If the children of today
    are the same, they may never again have that opportunity.
    PLEASE forward this to everyone on your email lists.
    And thank YOU Chip for your diligence in sharing it over the years and today still.

  • Achilles K;

    Yes, I grew up in New Enngland, Lynn became a township in 1629. They don’t teach history in schools any more and the kids are ignorant of their fore fathers.
    As Gov, Bradford Proved, give them a piece of land and they become Capitalists. Need I say more?

    Bi bi

  • Bruce

    Dear Chip,

    Thank you for your very interesting artical. You know whats strange, I think wellfair is.
    Lets look at this from this side of the equation. Anyone ever heard of an “EBT card?” We have a friend who works at a local food store she tells us of folks on Wellfair who have these cards, this is the deal, they get $800.00 per month for just food, keep in mind thats just for one person plus $200.00 per month cash for Smokes and Beer & Wine etc.. Plus $400.00 cash for spending money.
    Then a Clothing allowance of $300.00 per month.
    Plus for every child they have its an extra $800.00 per month for food plus the $300.00 for clothing.
    Plus that $200 cach for spending money.
    Plus they get their housing for free.
    Ok a quick over view, ZERO cost for housing, No insurance cost, No tax’s, $9600.00 per year for food for one, $2400.00 per year CASH; for beer and smokes, $3600.00 per year for cloths. PLUS $4800.00 spending money in CASH. For a total for one $20,400.00.

    They don’t pay for Water, Phone, or Electric, again thats; $20,400.00 per year for just one person with ZERO living expences.
    Add in just one child and that goes up to, $30.000.00 plus, add in two kids and its up to, $40,000.00 plus range.

    I don’t know about any of you but the two of us and our dogs are not spending $400.00 per month on food. Nor $200.00 per month on smokes and wine.
    So you see this system of ours is way wrong, we work until July to pay our tax’s so these folks can eat better then us.
    Then add in we all get the extra charges on our phone bills to pay for the ones that can’t afford a phone or cell phones.
    Oh and we also have that extra tax on our water bills, as well our electric for the same thing paying for people that can’t pay, aka the Wellfair crew.
    Then add in that these folks don’t pay anything into the system, yet have better health care than I can afford.

    It seems we that pay taxs are in this same boat as the early Pilgrims. I get s sinking feeling. How about you?
    Thanks

    • http://donthaveone Beberoni

      And the more governments fill the hands of those who stick their hands out, the more hands there will be stuck out, and the longer those who stick out their hands will continue to stick them out. I couldnt do that myself. I would feel like a loser if I stood there and let someone else pay my way through life, and you know what, I would be a loser. Im not going to do that, ever. Ill work 3 jobs flipping burgers before Ill take handouts.

      • DaveH

        Beberoni,
        You’re just too good. Most of the people I know would take the freebies if they could get away with it. Also, a large portion of the population doesn’t even understand that to give that money, the government has to take it away from somebody else first.

        • http://donthaveone Beberoni

          To me, it means simply standing for something Dave. If one doesnt stand for something, like the song says, theyll fall for anything. If you give a man a handout constantly like they do today, you will break his pride, and he will be kept down the rest of his day, as a broken man. Let a man work for what he has, and he will cherish it.

          • Jana

            BB when our children were born my dh worked 2 jobs so I could stay home and be a full time mother/homemaker.
            I also read and studied so I could be the best homemaker that I could be. I studied nutrition, I learned to sew and made all of our clothes except for my dh’s clothes. Then I made all of the Christmas and birthday gifts too, so I could do my part.
            I helped my daughters with their homework and volunteered at school. I was on top of things as they came up. I also stood up for my daughters when they needed it and stood up for the teachers when they needed it. My dh and I worked as a team and still do.

    • DaveH

      Bruce,
      How else are they going to get those votes if they don’t buy them?

    • Stella Aleman de Gallardo

      Thanks to the extreme capitalism of USA, the people are more poor.
      Except the rich, like Cheney, Bush, Kishinger, Rumsfield, Wolfowitz, etc. They do not care about you and me, and the poor. How people can be so ignorant and stupid.

      • DaveH

        The people are poor because the government has enabled that with their protection of the non-workers at the expense of the workers. We are not a free-market country and haven’t been for many decades.
        Read the History of Hong Kong, Stella, and learn something. In fact, since you rail against ignorance, type “economic freedom” into your search engine and start reading which economies fair better – those whose governments butt out of the marketplace or those whose governments regulate the hell out of their marketplaces.

        It is just common sense to know that if you take from a producer and give to a non-producer, the producer is going to slack off and the non-producer sure isn’t going to work harder (if at all).

      • Jo

        it seems you only researched under the letter R for people who have money try searching under D and find a real dose of reality start with soros.

        • ’53 Korean Vet

          While you are looking for “Rich” Politicians, Note–John Kerry & his wife with the Heines ‘Food Corporation’, and Al Gore–isn’t too far behind with his millions!

          • http://Yahoo Dee D

            Vet – Count McCain in the melee also. I still am trying to learn how and when he put so much time in the private sector to get so much from Soc. Sec..
            All know that Kerry and McCain married wealthy women. WE won’t label them gigolo’s tho – they are MEN.?
            Their have been some rumors (I have yet to learn if true or false) that McCain came into a lot of property during a savings and loan scandal.

          • Jana

            DD what have you learned about your hero Kerry?

          • http://Yahoo Dee D

            Jana- First Kerry is not my hero. I did not vote for him either.
            I have learned he is a distant relative of the Bush’s. He also belongs to the Skull and Bones Cult. He did marry a wealthy woman and the Republican Party hired the Swift Boat thugs to lie about him when he was running because they feared he had a good shot at the position. They even tried to hire some veterans to help them with their lies. But most veterans that have fought for all the remaining freedoms we have has more respectability under their little fingernail than most politicians have in their whole body. They refused to play the crooked game and told the public about the offers.
            I also saw the picture where the Repugs tried to convince the non thinking that Kerry was associated with Jane Fonda when in reality he was sitting in a row behind and to Jane’s left. Does anyone realize that the angle a picture is taken can be misleading? So no, one picture may not necessarily be worth a 1000 words.
            See everyone is not stupid and many do think for themselves and try to research for truths. When I catch a person in a lie I put very little faith in anything they have to say. They usually have so very little I care to hear. A liar is a liar, alpha and omega.

          • Jana

            DeeD, I see that you went to the Leftist website and got their misguided version of the story. That is what I expected from you. I just knew that is where you were getting your so called facts.

      • http://donthaveone Beberoni

        How do you know that? Have you sat down at a Thanksgiving dinner with them, or spent time with them at their home? I think not. Dont demonize someone because they have become a success. It shows your jealosy. I say more power to them for working hard, and making a success of themselves. And the poor will always be with us. It is the job of guys like me, who profess to Christianity to help them out, not the governments. Its not their line of business, or responsibility. People that allow themselves to become dependant on the government, have allowed themselves to become poor by their own choices. This is coming from a man who was 1 friend away from becoming homeless at 40 years old, and fought my way back by working two jobs for 4 years to straighten out things that I myself had messed up, not the rich guys, or the government, but me. We all need to look in the mirror at ourselves, and if we are failing miserably, pretty much the face in the mirror is the one responsible for it. But anymore, its been made so easy to play the victim, that society has made it that its always someone elses fault. Until we all realized that where we are is a direct result of the choices we have made, things arent going to get better, and things will never get better for those who decide to make a living off of government handouts. Accept this fact, because that is how it is. I know, Ive been there and done that, only I didnt want the handouts, and I never took any. I instead, decided not to just get a job, but to get two of them. I must say, now, life is good.

        • http://Yahoo Dee D

          Who are you talking to Bebe?

          • http://Yahoo Dee D

            Bebe – If it’s me – rest assured I am jealous of no one. I do not begrudge anyone who makes their money honestly. I have no respect for leeches or liars or anyone who will make even one penny at the expense of any other’s misfortune.
            I lost respect for McCain because he broke his promise to his 1st wife and his vow to God after she had her disfiguring accident. He left her for the wife he now has, who has money, but rumor has it she spends a lot on drugs. Since he is a Republican with so many high family values I just felt if he could abandon his 1st wife he would be willing to do even less for strangers or our citizens had he been elected to the highest position in our land. Nope – I plain out and out did not trust him and when the games started with Palin to get the female votes that made a believer of me.

    • Billy

      Change your voting habits.

      • http://donthaveone Beberoni

        I think it is easier for her to complain about those who have become successful.

  • Don Rowberry

    When some teaching institutions remove the words selfless and self-sacrifice from their creeds, the world will have a greater chance of becoming a better place.
    It is the psychological poison that stifles, bit by bit, thinking, reason, liberty and life, proper to man’s survival as man.It is the giving up of a higher value for a lesser or non value and is the weapon of all tyrants used to bring about slavery.

  • Dana

    This was really a good article and I would like to read it Thanksgiving Day to family. Hope it works. The truth is much more interesting than the lies of those wanting to promote their agenda of Marxism!

  • Paul

    When I read this piece, I did not come to the same conclusions that the author did. Shame, really… could have been interesting.

    • Helen

      It WAS interesting. You appear to be the only person who didn’t think so.

  • Luke

    The got the idea for communism from the Bible.

    And all that believed were together, and had all things common (Acts 2:24 KJV).

    • Billy

      No, the Bible didn’t teach communism, IT taught, love your neighbor. GOD does not teach hate.

    • Jana

      That was only one instance in a very short period of time for a goal. You need to read all of the Bible. It doesn’t teach Communism, nor that idea.
      The Bible teaches personal responsibility.

    • http://donthaveone Beberoni

      Dude, thats not communism. Communism, those in charge have a lot, and decided what you need and what you get, and give you a loaf of bread after you stand in line for 12 hours so that you wont starve. And your not allowed to become successful in communism. The government owns you. In the Bible, they didnt need a government to tell them what to do, it came from their hearts, as they knew it was right that if you have some, and someone has none, that you help them. Its a God thing, but if you dont know God, then you wont know this. And for you to insinuate what you have said, shows your ignorance to things.

  • ’53 Korean Vet

    Since I had 3 ancestors aboard the Mayflower, I had no choice on who my ancestors were-! I also had two ancestors, who were the ‘Founders’ of New Jersey. As I understand, the Mayflower Pilgrims were part of a”Joint-Venture” Group–(Somewhat like a fore-runner of Corporations) Each of these ‘Families’ had bought a ‘share’ (priced at about 10#), & there were many English Merchants who bought shares also.) This money was to provide for ‘The Venture’ for the ‘active-group’ to go to America. The Mayflower was 60′ long, with 102 passengers, crew of 38, which once loaded, had limited cargo-space! Once the Pilgrims got to Plymouth, they saw they had a “Problem”! No Corner-grocery Stores! So they checked their Supplies to see if their food might last, until they could plant & do a harvest–next fall.(Problem?–short of food!) They used “Common-Sense” to find a Solution! They decided to go on ‘Half-Rations’ of food for the next 2 years! True, there weren’t to be any “Fat” Pilgrims, but they need to be lean for hard work of building stockades, & homes! Each man,woman & child got the same amt. every day! Not by the week, but each day–they were afraid some man would come in–saying ‘How Hungry I Am’-!–& before he knew it–He’d eaten all of next week’s supply! So by their wisdom, they all made it–nobody starved! But then, a viscious sickness began to kill them–in the next 4 months, 51 of the 102 died! It’s been debated what this sickness was–but they had placed a “coup” of chickens under a front Poop-deck! With my research–I’d come to the conclusion, that they’d run into an “early-form” of “1918-type of Bird-Flu”! Indeed, of the 16 adult married women, only 4 lived to see the 1st “Thanksgiving”-! Below Deck with the chickens, they had been the ‘most-exposed’ to the below-deck life! Therefore, their death-rate was 75%, the men went ashore frequently–& theirs was 50%, & the children ran only 25%-!! Why these percentages were so different–imagine trying to coup up a bunch of children below deck-! Knowing Kids, they were top-side, & getting in the rope-rigging & etc–in the ‘fresh-air’-!! True, these Pilgrims had to work together–to do any tree-cutting & building, it takes less time–when you work together! (Carry one log, & see for yourself-!) 3 or 4 men together work more efficiently than one–by himself-! I don’t think we could call that “Communism”–but plain
    “Common-Sense”! At Jamestown, they found that a ‘sick-man’ could starve-to-death, if nobody brought him any food! Thus John Smith brought out the saying–”He who won’t work, will not eat!” He demanded that Jamestown Colonists grow their own food, & enough also for the ‘sick-men’– Most of the Jamestown Men spent too much time–”looking for Gold”, instead of growing something to eat! Of the 900 men first shipped in–2 years later, only 64 survived the “Starving-time”! (“Common-Sense” says–’That you can’t EAT GOLD’-!!) Remember that food was the most important thing–in your Lives-! You can’t cure “Stupidity”-!!

    • Billy

      THNK YOU

    • http://Yahoo Dee D

      Vet; If more were willing to research their family linage they would be able to learn many truths in line with the History of our country.
      The History taught in our schools are a pack of lies. Cowards portrayed as hero’s and the true hero’s never given a mention.
      My father was kidnapped as a young boy and was a slave used on farms. He slept in barns, had leftovers for meals, providing there were any leftovers.
      I hit a brick wall every time I tried to get facts about my dad. In 1999, after the 1900 census records were released I learned the year my dad was born. Even census records are inaccurate because of the lack of education back then.
      My dad was a slave and had no formal education, but he was one of the smartest men I have ever met. He had common sense and there was nothing he could not do. My mother was the educated one in our family and she done a very good job with all 6 of her children.
      My dad was illiterate but was a stationary fireman at the plant where he worked. He knew his figures even tho he could barely write them.

      • DaveH

        Dee,
        I am going to assume by your comments that you are black. So my question is why are you and other blacks supporting a party that condones modern day slavery? Oh sure, people can say that the Democrats are only taking from the rich (still stealing) but the truth is that everybody is burdened with the high taxes. On average, 40% of our money goes to the government. Money is an abstract representation of our labor. Therefore 40% of our labor goes to the government. If that isn’t slavery, I don’t know what is.

        • DaveH

          Don’t think from my comments Dee that I have ever condoned slavery of any form. I am a Libertarian because I respect the right of all people to determine their own destiny.

        • http://Yahoo Dee D

          Sorry Dave – You are mistaken. I am a white female that is 70 years plus. I was taught to respect all people. Take a red, yellow, black or white person, cut them all – they all will bleed red blood and feel the exact pain.
          There were also white slaves and slavery was wrong back then and equally wrong today. We all are slaves and have been for years, but nobody sees that.
          I feel no pity for the sorry adults who do not want to work, however I do feel sorry for their children. The children did not have the privilege of picking their parents, their parents made them.
          Abortion is cold blooded murder and I do not want my taxes used to kill anyone (in war or abortions). I would be willing to have my funds used to sterilize both males and females to prevent unwanted births. But the greedy would never go along with that. They want their cake and want to eat it too.
          Does anyone here know anything about the orphan trains here in America? Slavery was also used on whites as well as blacks and there own people sold them out in both races.

          • Claire

            Dee D—I remember hearing about the orphan trains! I believe I heard about them in school years and years ago! I had forgotten this!
            I do not believe in abortion either, only in cases where the mother’s life is threatened, in cases of incest, and rape. But still and all, I believe abortion is taking a life and I don’t want my tax dollars to pay for it.
            And I hope they leave Medicare and Medicaid alone! I know so many older folks that barely make ends meet now. It would be tragic. I also remember the Republicans were against Medicare-remember?

          • http://Yahoo Dee D

            Yes Claire – I am well versed in Soc. Security, medicare and medicade.
            I am a member who will lose the coverage she worked for from GM. I will lose all medical benefits and the meds I am on for survival will go from $125.00 a month to $1161.01 cents per month. But I will make it one way or another.
            That’s one reason I have to question some posters here in the way they form their opinions. They know very little and do not seem to be too willing to learn truths.

          • http://donthaveone Beberoni

            Dee, I agree with something you just said, and very much so. Abortion is cold blooded murder. So my question to you, is how can you in your right mind then vote for a Democrat? I mean they agree with abortion, they spent money to get abortions legal, and now they are spending our tax payer money to perform abortions on the unwilling in third world nations. How can you make the statement that it is murder, which it is, but then vote for it? Please help me understand this. When you vote democrat, the blood of these unborn victims is on your hands also, as you helped make it happen.

        • http://Yahoo Dee D

          Dave – In re-reading your comment I feel compelled to respond. I learned a long time ago not to assume anything because all it does is make an A$$ out of U and me. Joke time Dave.

          • http://Yahoo Dee D

            Bebe – First I am not a Democrat.
            Second I am not a Republican.
            Third I am not a party loyalist and I do not trust very many politicians – PERIOD.

            We voters have been so lax in our reasons for voting for any politician and time and time again putting the same scum bags into office again and again. Don’t bother following their performance and voting accordingly – to much trouble. Allow them to tell me how I should vote or throw my vote into the round file. One thing I do live by – Lie to me once, shame on you – Lie to me twice, shame on me for believing you.

            Just why does the average voter think the reason so many incompetents throw their hat into the political ring and how do they think they can be kept in office? Is it because they consider most voters are stupid and will believe anything they say. Past performance records show that may very well be the case.
            I personally believe any party loyalist is also a traitor to themselves, their country, their family and friends and neighbors and also to their country.
            We must have a healthy mixture representing us so each can be the watchdog for the others.
            When one party has a majority control – we are in deep trouble.
            In this day and age we are not even able to tell if the one we voted for is a member of what party because they seem to be dressing in whatever label will get them the most votes. In other words WOLVES IN SHEEP’S CLOTHING.

        • http://Yahoo Dee D

          Dave – I can see why you assumed I was black.
          My father was kidnapped because his stepmother was a loose woman and my dad was getting old enough to understand what was taking place with different men coming and going while his dad was at work. My dad parents separated and my grandmother took her daughter and left my dad with his father.
          My dads stepmother payed a local male to kill my dad and thank God he realized he could make more by selling him to a farmer for a farmhand and would not be guilty of murder.
          When my dad got old enough to go out on his own he started south hoping to locate his parents. He met my mother and – here I am today.
          My dad never got to see either of his parents but he did locate the sister he thought he had, who turned out to be a half/sister and his stepmother and several more half brothers and sisters. It’s a really long and educational story.

      • ’53 Korean Vet

        Dee–I know more of History than most–My Pilgrim’s were never slave owners in our Family-Line! They’d rather do the work themselves, or with a couple of their sons–& have it done right, the 1st time! Now, Stella with her “Indian Heritage” tried to blame the Pilgrim’s for murdering the natives! Which wasn’t a true picture in History–ships had come prior to 1620 from fishing fleets, & exposed the Indians to the “Real Threat” to our Indian Population–”Small-Pox”! Because it was so-common in Europe, Europeans had developed immunities to this disease! But for the Indians–whole villages were wiped out! That’s why the Pilgrims found ‘no-danger’ to settle Plymouth–”Small-Pox had already been there & completely wiped out 2 villages prior to the Mayflower’s arrival! The Indians had “no prior immunity” & it killed without mercy! The Congregation that the Pilgrims came from–were not the “Puritans” who arrived in 1630! The last were the people, who had the “Salem-Witch” Trials, with a strict group of rules from King Henry’s Church–the Anglican Church of England! The Pilgrims were forced to leave England because, they believed the Bible was correct! The Puritans had ‘special’ Religious Laws–which were set by a King, not a religious Man of God! That’s why the Pilgrims were in Holland! The Pilgrims were friendly with the Indians–noted one ‘Squato’ who came to them 2 years later–saying “Welcome”!

        • http://Yahoo Dee D

          Vet – True History is really such a deep subject that the authors are unable to get to the bottom of it in order to teach truthfully.
          That’s why I say the history that has always been taught in our public school system is so full of lies with truthful facts omitted for whatever reason.
          Anyone willing to research their family linage can get a more honest portrayal of American History than any textbook in any school could ever begin to provide.
          Like your family, I have never found a slave owner and my family has always believed, no human should be asked to do anything one is not willing to do themselves.
          My Dad always said, do the job correctly the first time and you will save yourself a lot of time in the end.
          I will repeat – my dad had no formal education but he was a brilliant man.

          • http://Yahoo Dee D

            Vet – The DAR’s is a nice organization but I feel some members are a little snooty.
            I located and called a relative hoping to speak with him and learn a little about our kinship.
            His wife answered the phone. I told her who I was and why I was calling.
            She gave me a pedigree so prominent I was proud for her. But I felt compelled to ask – Where are your robbers, horse thieves, yard children and murders? She got angry with me and told me they had none of them in her family. I can be outspoken at times when I am talked down to and not at. I told her she certainly purchased a pedigree and asked her the cost. Anyone researching their linage had better have a sense of humor and willing to accept facts as truths. All families have all of the previously mentioned personalities. We have no control over what we inherit but if we can learn a little we are the better people for it.

          • ’53 Korean Vet

            Dee D– You’ve said that not everything is true in History–I Agree-!
            About 14 yrs ago, I saw a picture in a very-old book, while looking for side-family ancestors! I couldn’t believe what I saw & did read! It was a 35-ft tall monument in King’s County, NY– And engraved on the front were these words– “In Honor of Maryland’s Four Hundred, who on this Battlefield– Aug 27, 1776– “Saved the American Army” (Then I said–”Wait just a minute!” (I knew my American History & I knew most of Ancient Asia & European History also-!) “There’s never been a small group of men–ever credited before, ‘of saving an Army’! No-not one event! (I serious doubted the whole inscription at this time! It must be an flunk-some mistake!) Because I asked myself the big ‘Question’–”What has happened that the Army can’t save itself-?”
            It’s also why it’s so-hard for a small group to get credit for such a event-! It wasn’t in a history-book when I went to School,& it’s not there now-! But True or False–I wanted the Truth, so I did Research! Of 3 dozen old History Books, only 5 of them, even mentioned “Battle of Brooklyn”-! In none of them, was the Story ‘complete’–you had to put all 5 together to get a complete picture! The British had formed two ‘Jaws’ of 10,000 men in each Jaw–If they could ‘close the Jaws’, they would either capture or kill all 6,000 men in the Colonial Army at Brooklyn! The Americans were trapped, but 400 men marched nearly a mile to make a stand against 4,000 crack British troops in a meadow, without any walls, trees to shoot from! They were going keep one Jaw from closing–so that the rest of the American Army could escape to Brooklyn Heights–where they had dug in trenches,& cannon as a fort! I’m military–& know the odds! 400 men against 4,000 Troops-it’s not Bravery, it’s not Courage–It’s SUICIDE-! But I found out that they did everything the “plaque” said they did! They saved the Army, & not only that, they “Saved the American Revolution”! But such a cost! Nine managed to swim ‘Gowanus-Swamp”, badly wounded, & only one lived till the Battle of “German-Town”! The PhDs who write our History for our High-School pupils–without research, put it down–another “Lost Battle”! (No importance!) Not important, this is what gave them–our American ‘Fighting Spirit’! As the rest escaped, they can see what the
            ’400′ are doing! This set the course for the rest of the War for Bravery! It’s so important that Washington himself made the last Man–A Brigader-General! Because if the British had resumed their attack, they would have captured or killed George Washington–& that would be the end of the ‘Revolution’-! So now–type on Search of your PC– http://www.nyfreedom.com/oldstonehouse. htm (& see it verified by Web-site) I didn’t find this NY internet site–until 4 yrs ago. Cheers 4 Truth!

          • ’53 Korean Vet

            Dee D– I missed one piece of important information–it’s a portrait of Brig. General “Mordecai Gist” Type in his name & you’ll be taken to a group of Art Gallerys–look through them, until you see the Best Picture of him in Uniform-!

  • SETH AFOTEY

    SIR,

    THANKS FOR YOUR COMMENTS ON THE HISTORY OF COMMUNISM IN THIS COUNTRY.
    I THINK WHAT WE NEED IS TO ENSURE THAT BOTH THE SENATE AND THE CONGRESS GET THE MESSAGE ON THIS ISSUE AND ALSO ANY ISSUE ABOUT THE
    LESSONS ON COMMUNISM. THIS COUNTRY IS WHAT IT HAS BEEN AS A RESULT OF CAPITALISM AND NOT COMMUNISM. BECAUSE OF CAPITALISM, THIS COUNTRY HAS BEEN VERY SUCCESSFUL MORE THAN ANY OTHER COUNTRY. OUR GOVERNMENT OFFICIALS CERTAINLY DO NOT KNOW THIS. I AM A FOREIGN BORN AND I SEE THE DISTRUCTION OF THIS COUNTRY BY OUR POLITICIANS: THEY ARE VERY CORRUPT, SELF INTERESTED, SELFISHNESS, ETC. ETC. PLEASE LETS PUSH THIS.
    SO STUPID, THEY ARE SELLING OUR CAPITALIST BASE TO CHINA THROUGH CONSUMERISM AND SO CALLED CHEAP PRODUCTS.
    THANKS.

  • Tough Descendant

    We will read the Pilgrims’ story at Thanksgiving dinner. I am the seventh generation in North America. The 1st generation settled Haverhill,Massachusetts, the next generation went on to settle what is now the State of Maine. We’re now spread out across this wonderful country. Our predecessors were a strong willed bunch ornery and tough enough and honest enough to live through anything and prosper. Hard work & honesty will win out over chicanery and deceit any decade. Including the political opportunists. And they all married tough, honest, resilient partners. Hang in there. It worked for us, and it will for you.

  • Lloyd Prentice

    Thank you very much for the inspiration of “A Thanksgiving Lesson” by Chip Wood. Many of the facts and details are new to me. Our nation needs to hear or read this.

  • Mark Bailets

    Human nature is cyclical! It’s either “Trial and Error or Plan-Act-Evaluate”. The Pilgrims had never done this before, thus there was no guide book to follow. Our Founding Fathers changed all that by writing the Constitution, Declaration of Independance and Bill of Rights… “We The People” have no excuse for allowing our great country to falter. Even though our morals, ethics and spiritual Christian precepts are under continous ongoing attack, we have a binding obligation to stand up as leaders, not followers.

    By our example we must provide strength and guidance for other people to see and follow. Our society needs guidance. I have posted a partial check list below that will help in that regard. Please feel free to pass it along to your family and friends. Divide and prioritize this list to suit your needs. Anyone wanting the full list plus my SELF RELIANCE PRIMER (5 pages) contact me at roybailets

    SELF RELIANCE CHECK LIST
    1)
    water: collection, filtration, purification, storage, distribution
    dry storage foods
    alternate shelter
    self defense
    first aid medical
    2)
    power generation-energy
    heating
    lighting
    cooking and cooking gear
    clothing and foul weather gear
    communications
    transportation

    • Billy

      Mark, you are so right.

  • Stella Aleman de Gallardo

    The real Thanksgiving is a native celebration. Since then, the genocide began, and the english started to kill them. Indigenous shared everything they had and taught them how to survive. Pokahondas was a traitor to them, when she fell in love with an english man, and left the english killed her people. This is not a USA celebration, it’s an indigenous commemoration. I’m going every year to Plymouth (Mass),and they call “The mourning day”. Since then, indigenous people lost everything. They (USApeople) need to feel shame for what happen to the indigenous people since the english arrived to this land.

    • Billy

      I do not have to answer for your sins. It’s a shame that some things happened, I just make sure that I don’t repeat their sins.

    • DaveH

      Stella,
      The killing was hardly a one-way street and never has been.
      Before our ancestors came to this country, the natives were warring against and killing each other. It is unfortunate, but it is a fact of life. The best we can do now is try to get along, and try to respect our fellow human being. That means not stealing his/her hard-earned money to redistribute to others that have not done a thing for that person.
      Also, the government has no business protecting people from themselves. If you respect your fellow human being you will let them make their own personal choices and pay for their own mistakes. That is the only way people (or companies of people) learn and progress.

    • http://donthaveone Beberoni

      Yes, our predecessors did some horrible things. But also, the Indiginous people did some horrible things themselves. The Indians have always been persecuted in this country, and I myself hate that. But I cannot change what was, only what is. My ancestors were thrown out of Germany and had thier castle and wealth and evertything taken away. But you see, they dont owe me nothing, because for one, it wasnt done to me, and two, those living over there now didnt do it. Just as these people who originally came here did what they did, and I had nothing to do with it, and the indiginous people that killed the Americans, are not those who may be alive today. The past is the past, and it cant be changed, but it can be learned from. A wise man learns from his mistakes. A fool repeats them.

  • http://www.truth1.org Scott Ervin

    1) Pilgrims were silly to have ever tried what they did. But they blamed the world around them for influencing them and so they thought they could run away from it.
    2) Part of their survival was due to Squanto, whose own survival had been preserved by Pilgrims in England who helped him escape and secure passage back to America. He had been captured earlier by an English expedition at Pemaquid, Maine and brought to England.
    3) Though Communism did fail the Pilgrims, part of this was due to the “mixed” company, about half of which were bums or near so, even as it had been at Jamestown.
    4) Communal living, not to be confused with Communism, which is actually authoritarian Totalitarianism, has been accomplished rather satisfactorily by the Germanic Hutterites now settled in north central US and Canada. They have been doing so for 400 years but of their own accord and not a mixed company but one of true unison of belief, culture, and purpose. It makes a big difference.
    5)Independent living is clearly the best choice, according to actual experience as well as the fact that God had Israel live this way.
    6) Despite the fool-heartedness of the Pilgrims and perhaps some ignorance and lack of full scriptural knowledge, God showed them mercy and lent enough help to enable them to establish themselves in their new land for which they paid a dear cost to obtain.
    7) Oddly, the new country became a magnet for many types of Christian denominations to gather, having previously been denied religious and ever civil and political rights as well. So USA became a collecting pot of these religious types who took religion perhaps a little more seriously and seen as more relevant in their lives. They created a political base which some saw as desirable.
    8) So Another networked group, seeing a country without adequate defense, decided they could start their own country and get ird of meddling kings and clerics who were always getting in their way of having their way. So they seduced and compromised Christianity as a whole in the USA to help fight and liberate USA. It worked.
    9) But right after, the political elite quickly imposed far harsher taxes and draconian measure than even England had. Shay’s Rebellion and the Whiskey rebellion were attempts to fight the unjust powers but they ultimately fell to the power mongers. Now we live in slavery.
    10) stay out of politics and war for those above us are far more clever and advanced than the sons of light are, and we usually end up serving the devil rather than righteousness. Lets us learn from past mistakes or we will keep repeating them till we are all dead or serving as slaves.

  • Mike

    Wow! Indeed, ignorance is bliss (for those who exploits it). Once in history the government may improve the peoples lives to the level of a modern and civilized society and boom! Everybody is getting greedy, fearing that SOMEONE ELSE could use something of theirs. Are you all Warren Buffets and Bill Gates’es? What do you care then? If you are so against everything communal, fire city officials, get rid of the police, firemen, road crews, etc., etc. Build your own road, investigate your house break-in yourself, grow your own food. Because you know, all of the above is completely or partially financed with our taxes, hence arranged in a socialist way. So, why the fuss? You like paying over a $1000 every month for so called ‘health insurance’ that you use twice a year when you get a cold? And even then, you can’t be sure the insurance will pay for your doctor’s visit. And you can’t stop paying, because they do not cover ‘pre-existing conditions’. And what if you or someone you love have a birth defect? It’s pre-existing, all right, even if you are a baby. Sure, it’s the best system in the world! The only question is, why every body else in the world dropped it, except for maybe Egypt, Lybia and such?
    The public medical insurance is accepted in pretty much all western world. Sure, it’s not without it’s problems, but they don’t have half the country uninsured and they are not going bankrupt because of the medical bills. We do.
    Anyway, it’s better to pay for universal healthcare than for two wars that benefit nobody.

    As for the communist experiments, not all of them failed. Kibbutzes in Israel work just fine.

    • DaveH

      Almost every venture the government engages in costs more money than it would cost for the private sector to do it. The government didn’t make this country what it is. Freedom made this country what it is. If Big Government was the solution, Cuba would be thriving and Mexico would be thriving. Use your search engine to search the phrase “economic freedom” and learn the effects of Big Government on economies.

  • Claire

    Dee D—You go, Girl!!!!

  • http://www.myspace.com/whiteylawful e_plurilbus_unum

    The indians that left the chief and tribe were not counted ; collectively.

  • Claire

    You know, I have read all postings on this particular site for well over a month, maybe longer. These postings covered a lot of issues and it has been extremely interesting to read each person’s opinions and thoughts. These postings have opened my eyes in many ways. As I continue to read and do some posting myself, I am slowly coming to the conclusion that I will walk the “middle of the road.” Dee D has posted well on this site today and so have many others. She tells the truth when she says Congress will not work with Obama. If you just stop and really think about it, how can Obama get anything done? The Blue Dog Democrats and the Republicans balk at every turn. (I realize big government is not the answer.) Wouldn’t it be nice if Congress would bury the hatchet, stop thinking about being re-elected, and get down to brass tacks and get the country on its feet? If they would all work together, share ideas, and stop acting like a bunch of spoiled brats, maybe things would get done. Right now, the way things are going, nothing will be accomplished any time soon. The war was not started by Obama, so he should not be blamed for the war or for the bailouts that occurred before he took office. Now he is working to clean up the mess. All of this takes time, it will NOT happen overnight.Yes, he promised he would have us out of Afghanistan in 17-18 months. Well, that time has not arrived yet. We will have to wait and see what happens.
    It is easy to blame the “other guy.” I have to ask these questions and you all will probably jump down my throat. Just bear with me. Do you really believe Obama is a Communist, Marxist? Why do you believe this? Why do you believe he was born in Kenya? Do you have proof of this? Exactly why do you believe he is so evil? All the other politicians have “skeletons” in their closets. The Rev. Wright issue—I am from a small town, I KNOW how Black churches conduct their services. To each his own. My family and myself never had any problems with their churches or their pastors. We all have freedom of speech. Why is it some can say what they want and be hateful as hell but when someone else does it, then its all wrong? Double standard? For example, do you remember seeing Palin and her preacher during a service that was aired on TV? That was nutty too. McCain had a problem with his pastor, but that was quickly shoved under the “rug.” Obama is not trying to take our guns away, I believe he is trying to reach a happy medium on this issue. We shall see.
    I edited a manuscript on education earlier this year–it was written by an author that had numerous contributors. As I read through the Table of Contents, I noticed that Chapter 11 was written by Dr. William Ayers!! Needless to say, I read Chapter 11 first! Believe it or not, I found NOTHING that was derogatory, misleading or anything! I was shocked! I figured his chapter would be full of all kinds of garbage, but it wasn’t! His chapter was as logical, and sane as the other chapters. Sure, he was an a$$ during his younger years, but so weren’t a lot of us. I also realize a lot of us didn’t try to blow up buildings though. This is a start of my questions. I appreciate the feedback. I have to fix supper!

    • DaveH

      The president has surrounded himself with people that worship Marxists and want redistribution of wealth:
      Anita Dunn:
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HiBDpL2dExY

      • Claire

        Egad! After I got past my favorite (ugh) person Glenn Beck, I did watch the video. Informative yes, but I will have to check this out further.
        You know, we just can’t believe everything we hear and half of what we see!! Remember that old adage?
        There are sooo many versions of everything that a person must do research to find out the actual truth, if possible.
        Thanks for the input.

        • http://donthaveone Beberoni

          But if Glen Beck says it, you need to hold it as the truth, because the dude doesnt lie.

          • http://Yahoo Dee D

            Bebe – Beck also has curly Blond hair and very Blue Eyes. Wasen’t that a trait that Hitler demand all German born children have or be put to death? Just asking.
            If Hitler were still alive today and been as patient as some of our reps. I fear he would be in control of the world. The fact he was crazy did not make him any less a genius and he was smart.

        • http://Yahoo Dee D

          Claire- Air America Radio says Beck has a High School Diploma – no
          College – no University.
          Hannity with only 6 hours in college (total).
          I’m not putting anyone down who attended college or not – but I also feel when anyone gets in front of a TV camera and make claims that colleges and universities are liberal, how can they justify their rants when they never attended college?
          HERE’S A HINT from my perspective for what it’s worth—————
          KNOWLEDGE is power!! A great education makes one look at things with an open mind. Also educated people seem to respect differences, in people and other people’s opinions.
          I feel Beck and Hannity will never respect any Democrat because of party loyalty. We all have choices – so do we listen to Beck and Hannity’s opinions of the world who base their opinions on fear and emotion for a paycheck or do we listen to good honest and open minded views from every American?

          • Jana

            DD,
            In some posts you show such wisdom and yet in other posts you are off the wall. You really do have some great thoughts at times.
            The fact that someone has not gone to College, nor has not gone to a University does not mean they aren’t smart.
            There is no way anyone could retain everything they have learned in College over 4 to 8 years, but they do learn where and how to look up the knowledge they seek.
            Anyone can study and learn if they choose to do so and apply themselves in or out of school. To have a diploma does not make one smart, nor wise.
            You are right, Knowledge is Power, but sitting under a Socialist teacher does not give one an open mind. We have too many College Profs. that have an agenda and it is not to teach the student to have an open mind.
            Glenn is a Libertarian, and Hannity is a Conservative. I have heard them both lambast the Republican Party many times.
            I look at all of the facts and then I choose who I listen to. I don’t have time to waste to listen to garbage. The Bible tells us to be careful what we put in our minds. By knowing the truth I can distinguish pretty fast what I will or will not listen to.

          • http://Yahoo Dee D

            Jana the Bible tells us it’s not what goes into the mouth that defiles
            us but what comes out.
            No person in their right mind can justify teaching hatred and scorn.
            You take Limbaugh – he rants and raves and jumps around like he’s stoned most of the time.
            One fact my parents taught me. A LIAR really needs a good memory or they will give themselves away as the liars they are.

          • libertytrain

            Jana – re your comments: “The fact that someone has not gone to College, nor has not gone to a University does not mean they aren’t smart.
            There is no way anyone could retain everything they have learned in College over 4 to 8 years, but they do learn where and how to look up the knowledge they seek.
            Anyone can study and learn if they choose to do so and apply themselves in or out of school. To have a diploma does not make one smart, nor wise.
            You are right, Knowledge is Power, but sitting under a Socialist teacher does not give one an open mind. We have too many College Profs. that have an agenda and it is not to teach the student to have an open mind.”
            Excellent – said it well.

          • Jana

            DeeD,
            The Bible also says, With the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh.
            Now when we put garbage into our minds it becomes part of us and that is how we believe and speak.
            The reason we listen to the people such as Rush and Hannity and Beck is because they say it like we believe it. Someone is finally putting voice to how we feel and believe. So for you to call them or one of them a liar, you are calling a lot of us liars.
            You are very close to the socialist agenda yet at other times you come out with common sense. Maybe you need to be aware as this is exactly what Satan does, mixes some truth with lies. (I AM NOT CALLING YOU SATAN EITHER!) What I am saying is who are you listening to?
            By the way, how do you know what someone sounds like that is stoned??? Have you had experience with this?
            Rush makes a lot of sense to a huge amount of people and has always represented the frustrated people that have had to be forced by their government to be “politically correct”, and see this country be lead down the wrong path.
            If you would have bothered to listen to him with open ears and not the hatred adn scorn that you talk about, then you would also have heard him talk about all of the unfairness from both parties. Instead you only listen to the liberal sites and what the liberals say about him.

            Jana the Bible tells us it’s not what goes into the mouth that defiles
            us but what comes out.
            No person in their right mind can justify teaching hatred and scorn.
            You take Limbaugh – he rants and raves and jumps around like he’s stoned most of the time.
            One fact my parents taught me. A LIAR really needs a good memory or they will give themselves away as the liars they are.

          • Jana

            DeeD, I wasn’t finished yet, I clicked on something else and it sent it,
            The bottom part was what you said.
            The other thing I wanted to say was, It sounds like you had wonderful parents. It’s too bad they didn’t teach you to have an open mind.
            That college education that you bragged about is supposed to teach people to have an open mind. Well my dear you do not represent an open mind.

          • Jana

            Liberty, thank you.

          • Claire

            Dee D—For some reason I could never tolerate Beck. These is something about him that turned me off a long time ago. He comes across as rather emotionally unstable (like Limbaugh) and to be honest I would rather listen to the good honest openminded views from every American,which includes the people on this post.

      • denniso

        DaveH…Obama and ‘his people’ only want what will work for most of the people, not just the rich. You engage in hyperbole rather than truth to misrepresent others intentions. Some see through it.

        • Claire

          You are very adamant in what you believe, and so is everyone else on this post. We all have different opinions, and it is good that we express them however, none of us have the right to force anyone else into thinking the way we want them to think. So basically, do unto others before they do unto you.
          I could’nt help but say this. I’m just being silly. LOL
          I have read the posts so far on this page and have read the others, and I have come to the conclusion that all of you are good people. Your personalities have come through, and as I read between the lines, you all “shine” in your own ways. Bless all of you and I hope everyone has a very very Happy Thanksgiving.

    • DaveH

      Andy Stern:
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iXZD1EyBYvc

      “Employee Free Choice” translates to Card Check which would take away the secret ballot in Union Votes.

      • Claire

        Yuck–Beck again. But I did watch the video. Another item I will have to check out further.

      • http://Yahoo Dee D

        Jana – If you would really read my posts and try to understand what I am saying with an open mind you would know I truly believe all I say.
        In one post I stated my Dad had no formal education at all. He could not read or write, however he did get the education life offered him and he truly was a very smart man. When one chooses to stop learning and playing they are old already before their time.
        I judge no one period. You are entitled to have any opinion you elect. I will not try to influence your opinion in any way. I would like to have the same respect.
        But Jana – I am me and what you think of me matters not. That’s your decision to make and you are the one who has to live with the road you choose to travel.
        All I ask of anyone – do your own research – think for yourself and never never allow anyone but yourself make your decisions for you. If people choose to live their life to please everyone else the memories they have for their old age will not be important and worth reliving.
        And we do live our lives twice over and some times more often.
        When one can look at their mugs in the mirror and be truly honest with themselves (mistakes and all) then they will have happy memories to reflect on. I will be the first to admit I am not the sharpest tack in the box and I pray I never stop learning.
        Happy Thanksgiving

        • Jana

          DeeD, Have you read your own posts? You are very judgmental. In fact from your own post if someone doesn’t have a college education they aren’t very smart.
          Over and over you have put down anyone not believing like you do.
          You also say you don’t try to influence anyone. Since when??

          It almost seems as though we are dealing with two different DeeDee’s on this site. One makes a lot of good common sense and the other comes across as a ditz.
          Will the real DeeDee please stand up?

    • DaveH
      • Claire

        Very interesting. I have to know more about this one. I have always believed that unions did not hold our best interests to heart, I more or less was brought up to believe unions were the ruination of America. They may have started out okay in the beginning but then they became too powerful, and greedy.

        • DaveH

          Have you ever seen the videos of Andy Stern or others preaching to the Union members as if they were in Church? And the membership chants and claps at almost every statement. Talk about a bunch of mind-numbed sheep.

          • Claire

            DaveH: Yesssss, I have seen them in action. Sheeple. Reminds me of the “old time religion” I used to observe as a kid. Ranting and raving. It is serious business I know, but yet I seem to find the humor in their antics. As a child I attended a country Baptist church and we used have our baptismals in the Illinois River. I can remember the kids being terrified. I think we were called “drowning Baptists” back then. Keep in mind I am not making fun of Baptists or any religion. To each his/her own. It is just for some reason I thought of this while reading your post.
            Thanks for the input.

        • Jana

          My Uncle was a union member. You would have thought the Union was his god.(Little g for false god). Even as a child I thought something was wrong with the way he believed and fought and talked Union.

          I agree with you about the Unions.

          • denniso

            Jana,w/o unions we would probably still have slave wage labor…no workplace safety and maybe still have child labor. Unions aren’t perfect, but you wouldn’t want to work today if we hadn’t had unions to help clean up the vile practices of industry years ago. Every modern worker today benefits from the struggles of past union workers.

    • James

      Claire, your parenthetical statement “I realize big government is not the answer” was then followed by “wouldn’t it be nice if Congress would…get down to grass tacks and get the country on is feet?” Isn’t that self-contradictory?
      Let’s remember, America became great because the people were free – not because we had a powerful government, that would get things done. Jobs are created by people with new ideas – not government. FDR’s Works Progress Administration didn’t create jobs, it made unemployed citizens wards of the state. The money they were paid was borrowed by the federal government from the federal reserve system, and had to be paid back by future Americans. It was described by the U.S. Supreme Court as ‘welfare’.

      • Claire

        In a way, maybe contradictory. But now that they are in office, they should work together and try to rectify the damage that has been done. This does not mean to go overboard and spend, spend, spend. This does not mean to “control” the entire United States. This does not mean they have to take care of everyone and put them on welfare and create jobs. A far as welfare-this is out of control and it needs to be cleaned up. This means they must do a complete overhaul-cut the unnecessary spending where applicable. Stop the corruption, the handouts, and stop the “Scratch my back, and I’ll scratch yours” way of governing.

        • DaveH

          Claire,
          I like it better when they don’t work together. That way they don’t grow government quite so rapidly. Bipartisanship is a concept invented by Democrats who want to grow government. We don’t elect our Congressmen to be Bipartisan, we elect them to run our country right. How are we ever going to shrink the size of this Leviathan Government if we elect people that are Bipartisan? When the Democrats talk about Compromise, they mean in the sense of Union Negotiations. They propose a 100% increase in Government and they call it “Compromise” for the Republicans to accept a 50% increase.
          We can count on us and our children and our grandchildren to be Slaves of the State if we don’t wake up soon.

          • Claire

            Geez: I have always thought if people work together amicably, then the job would be completed and hopefully done well. This is certainly food for thought.

          • Jana

            Clair, Working together amicably sounds right, but unfortunately it means to both parties, as long as I get my way.
            That is why we need term limits, and we need regular people to become Reps.
            They call themselves Congressional Leaders. They are supposed to represent us, not be our leaders, and do whats best for our country. Instead they have to do whats best for their careers.

  • Claire

    Jo–I probably should have made myself more clear. The public schools here in town do not teach Liberal agendas. I have several friends that are teachers and we have discussed this issue. Higher education is a different story, of course.
    Yes, if we live under rocks side by side, I am your neighbor and yes, we shall love thy neighbor! This is very true.

  • http://www.logoweardirect.biz/rsmith65 Russ

    Hey!!!…gang:

    America died on Aug. 15, 1971, when BenLaden asked to redeem his billions of Petro$’s for our gold @ $35/troy oz. & then President Nixon closed the gold window in his face. Under the Bretton Woods Agreement our $ notes read: This note is legal tender for all debts personal and private and is redeemable in lawful money (gold) at the Unites States Treasury or any Federal Reserve Bank.
    If we would have taken recognition of this regulaltion on our currency as did BenLaden & others, you, dear reader, could have taken your $35.000 $’s & purchased 1,000 troy ozs. of gold. Now, with the over $1,000,000 in paper how far would that go towards paying off your forclosed mortgage which would have allowed you to escape these $%&Z*@ banks 30 yrs. of high ARM interest rates? This is by far more crucial than the Pilgrams escaping the King of England to settle here however it happened. Nothing anyone here in this communist country can do now to restore the $ to a Au (gold) backing. Now, via inflating, you can donate your purchasing power to your commie gov., so they can redistribute your wealth to their presently unemployed and too big to fail frauds!! The banksters are from England primarily like the Rothchilds, Lords of London, etc. Without a shot & now we can celebrate their takeover with turkey and the trimmings!!
    Disagree all you want but can you disagree with my friend who say all this happening & said to me, Russ, if they will no longer redeem my notes for gold, I’ll redeem them myself. He went out to some gold miners where he purchased gold for $11/troy oz. Not even the Pilgrims could beat that could they. He also went to Reno where he traded one paper $ I Owe You Nothing for silver $’s straight across and, instead of leaving them inside their onearmed bandits, he brought them home where he sold 300 silver $’s, in order to purchase a new Chevy pickup truck and told DMV, when he registered his pickup truce and they asked him how much he paid for his new Chevy pickuptruck, told the DMV $300.
    No!!, America was that long ago country that honored its’ agreement to pay Au for it’s $’s pluss other countries held dollars in their vaults as backing for their currencies, under the premise that the $ was as good as Au gold.
    Now we can fight their blowback called terrorism, because they look @ us as the Great Satan whom Christ chararterized as both a murderer and a thief!! There’s no easy or subtle way out now is there?

    Russ Smith, California
    resmith@wcisp.com

  • Claire

    Dee D: I heard on TV today that more foreign countries were adopting American children. Canada was one of them, and God help me, I don’t remember the other countries.
    You know, I feel bad for ALL children in the world, but somehow I think we should take care of our own children first, then help the others. It seems that we are so willing to do for other countries first before we help our own. There are many Americans that adopt foreign children instead of American children. No doubt less red tape. Charity begins at home.

    • http://donthaveone Beberoni

      Yeah, kind of like we buy Middle Eastern oil, and take ours here and ship it out. Figure that one out.

      • Claire

        Yes, the oil situation is nuts. I still say close our borders–do not let anyone in (unless we absolutely know they are tourists) and if we do let anyone in, we must keep track of them somehow-get rid of the illegals and make sure they do not get anymore freebies — stop a lot of trade with foreign countries-buy USA products only (if possible, however the government has ruined it for us) China has already tried to poison us, our kids. I could go on and on. One thing that has always griped me is the fact that foreign countries import very few U.S. cars and we import millions of them. I realize our car companies should have had more fuel efficient cars, but darn it, I loved those 59 Chevy Impalas, and I love my ’69 Chevy Camaro Rally Sport with the hideaway headlights! And I love my old ’94 full size Chevy van. It has been all over the USA. I loved the cars from the ’50s. Now I’m rambling again.
        We must take Americ back.

    • http://Yahoo Dee D

      I am in complete agreement Claire.
      That’s why I would not flinch if our tax $$$$ were used to sterilize both male and female child bearing people.
      In an earlier post you said you could agree with abortion thru rape, or when a woman’s life is at stake. Maybe so in some cases, but here in my town an experience I had taught me not to listen even to a doctor. They are human and make mistakes also. The lady in question kept getting bigger and bigger in her stomach. Her doctor told her she had a tumor that needed to be removed. She would not agree to surgery. Around nine months later she delivered a beautiful blond haired blue eyed tumor,who had ten fingers and ten toes.
      When it comes to rape, with the way our young ladies dress and act today – if one yells rape – I have to ask who raped who? Always before it was the females fault regardless of the situation (which was wrong then) but by today’s standards even that has changed.
      When a young lady wants breast enhancement surgery over a new car for graduation – I feel parents are being lax on their job a lot of the time. I’m old fashioned I guess, but to me beauty comes from the inside, not outside appearance.
      Abortion as a means of birth control is COLD BLOODED MURDER.
      I would never judge anyone for anything they have or may have done because that is not my job. I may lose respect for some but judge no.

      My heart bleeds for all the little children the world over but there is only so much one person can do about any situation.
      I also agree with you with our representatives working together for the benefit for our country and her citizens. It seems everyone has forgotten about a HOUSE DIVIDED WILL CRUMBLE AND FALL.
      Obama was really put down for saying he was willing to talk with our enemies. Sorry, but I appreciated that trait from him. I’ve always been taught to keep an enemy close at hand and keep him confused with kindness – it blows his mind.
      Happy Thanksgiving every one. Hope your turkey is moist and delicious.

  • Claire

    ’53 Korean Vet: I checked out the web site-it was different!! It will take about half a day to read everything, but I’ll get ‘er done!

  • DaveH

    People. I hope that you all realize that when the Democrats talk about cutting the deficit, they aren’t talking about cutting spending, they are talking about raising taxes.
    If you think they are going to reduce spending, just go to
    http://www.senate.gov/
    Then pick the votes link and then the 111th link to see the list of roll call votes. Find the Bills that are labeled ‘passed’ in the results column. Then pick the link to the left in the Vote column. You will notice that many on the bills were approved by both parties. Many of the Republican Senators don’t mind spending our money wildly either. These people have been in office too long. It’s time to give them tickets home on the next train.

    • http://donthaveone Beberoni

      Thats what they do, raise taxes. I believe it was Bill Clinton who had more tax hikes than anyone before or after. And he is thier god.

      • http://Yahoo Dee D

        You’re correct Bebe – But during the Clinton Administration we still had American Manufacturers and people were employed, bringing home a paycheck to pay their taxes, so they really didn’t notice the added taxes.
        When Clinton was in office did anyone posting here notice just how many trips Hillery made to China? I have yet to learn the why’s and why for all the trips, but I did notice after Clinton’s tenure ended, China seemed to spurt ahead with all the goods that were being shipped into our country. The Import and Export quotas are so out of proportion, one has to wonder why this is so obvious to dummies like me. Why do our representatives reward our industries so handsomely? They don’t seem to realize that with less workers the IRS will not be getting more money but much less from the taxpayers. Could this be a plan figured out before Obama was elected as the President, only to be the fall guy for what previous administrations have made the reality of? Could it be to bring us so low and impoverished that we will accept the OWG without them having a fight on there hands? Maybe something to really think about.

        • SnS

          DeeD,
          Like your holiness the “O” and the other leftists of your kind,
          You
          have failed to answer the question asked,
          and filled in Lot of nothing in place
          of a honest answer. So maybe to gain some creditability for yourself, you can try again.

          Beberoni says:
          November 23, 2009 at 4:26 pm
          Dee, I agree with something you just said, and very much so. Abortion is cold blooded murder. So my question to you, is how can you in your right mind then vote for a Democrat? I mean they agree with abortion, they spent money to get abortions legal, and now they are spending our tax payer money to perform abortions on the unwilling in third world nations. How can you make the statement that it is murder, which it is, but then vote for it? Please help me understand this. When you vote democrat, the blood of these unborn victims is on your hands also, as you helped make it happen

          Oh and yeah,
          Here is some good reading for you.Remember,
          Socialism leads to communism and it has never worked.

          http://www.paulbogdanor.com/left.html It is a great read something that is not taught in our public schools.
          SnS

      • denniso

        Beberoni…you left out a couple of important things about the Clinton era. We had 8 yrs of mostly peace and very few American soldiers dying in combat…Clinton left office w/ a budget surplus and a balanced budget. Any dislike for the man himself should be tempered w/ those facts, if you want to be honest.

        • Jana

          denniso, my husband was overseas during the Clinton admin. He said at that time they had no support from the United States at all while out of the country. It was a very scary and bad time with Clinton as Pres. They knew that if they got into trouble in one of the communist country’s that he worked in, that they were on their own.
          No, I am not proud that we had the Socialist Mr. Clinton as Pres.

  • Claire

    Jana—Great. Now I will have to doubt my teacher friends and their input on this topic. I am beginning to feel that I have lived a sheltered life after reading all these posts.
    Concerning men–I HAVE to say this–regarding male models, some are simply gorgeous hunks and I always think “WOW” and then they turn out to be gay. From a straight woman’s standpoint, I always think “what a waste.” I have no problems with gay/lesbians–I have numerous gay friends that belong to the same dog clubs that I belong to and they are very personable, I do like them, and they have always been very polite to me. Several really helped me when I began showing my dogs. Again, to each their own.

    • Jana

      Clair, I didn’t mean to imply your teacher friends were teaching this agenda on purpose. It is just there to be taught unfortunately. Your friends sound like nice people.

      • Claire

        Jana–I know you were not implying anything. They are good teachers. They do try their best. Personally, I think it would be very hard to be a teacher in this day and age.

  • Claire

    Jana–Oddly enough,now that you mention it, commercials do portray men as bumbling. I don’t think I like it either. You know, when my kids were little, I always taught them to respect their Father. And now that my son is an adult, he takes the time to go golfing with him, fishing, and hunting. My son always arranges a few golf trips during the year and they will be gone for a weekend. I know my husband enjoys the companionship. They will argue every now and then, but they have a good relationship. Thank God.

    • Jana

      Clair, What a blessing.
      It also takes the mother to teach her children to love and respect their fathers, and visa versa. Sounds like you were a great mother.

      • Claire

        It is hard to be a mother, too! A mother has to let them grow up, make their own mistakes (sometimes) and find their own way in life (with a little guidance). I always had a tendency to be overprotective. and God knows, I made mistakes too.
        On the other hand, my daughter is married to a person I do not particularly care for but that is her choice. LOL–can’t win them all!

        • http://donthaveone Beberoni

          If you truly want to help them, steer them away from the democratic party of George Soros please.

          • Claire

            Beberoni: I already have. But my daughter’s husband argues with me all the time. He’s a Democrat. Nothing I can do about him. I know what I would like to do with him, but it’s not legal. LOL

  • http://www.dixhistory.com/ DixHistory

    Dee D says:

    Dee you are atroll are you know of what you speak.

    Beyond help in either case. :-)

    • http://Yahoo Dee D

      Hey Dix – Give me your daffynition of a Troll. Maybe i are no know of what I speak. Kin u maybe b able 2 hep me out a ittle bit. There is times I relly git confussbudgeted too at sum of the posts I reed an I need sum hep sumtimes. LOL
      Have a Happy Thanksgiving Dix.

      • Jana

        Dee D, In spite of our differences, Happy Thanksgiving to you too.

        They have been having turkey’s on sale here and I have already cooked, deboned and frozen two turkeys. I will get another one tomorrow and put it in my freezer and then after Thanksgiving cook it and the other 2 turkeys that I still have and end up with about 40 pounds of cooked turkey meat in my freezer. There is so much you can do with that meat. You can make casseroles, soup, salads, sandwiches, and even heat it up and make a meal with it. LOL

  • kilrntex

    Locally there’s a shortage of turkeys. It seems most of the big game turkeys are in DC and most are the “wild” variety. Damn they would be some good hunting, but you’d better act quickly before they leave for the holidays!

  • Avatar

    It is a sorry commentary on the conditioned ignorance of the human race based on fear and greed. I agree communism will not work in our current level of enlightenment, but it is closer to what our Master would advocate than capitalism which is based on competition and greed rather than cooperation and LOVE.

    • ’53 Korean Vet

      Dee D–& Claire– I tried to leave you a URL you could click on–but it was spoiled by the short-line paragraph on this Forum—-try again Maryland 400– http://www.nyfreedom.com/oldstonehouse.htm

      • Claire

        ’53 Korean Vet–

        Thank you–I read the story, and felt a great sense of pride for America and the wonderful people that made America the great nation that it is.
        I wish you and your family a very Happy Thanksgiving.

      • http://Yahoo Dee D

        Vet-I read the article also. The courage the carvers of our great nation sacrificed so much for should never be forgotten.
        If anyone is ever in Columbus Ohio – look up COSI on Broad street. It’s more of an Industrial museum but it has so much of how manufacturing had to do with the formation of the History of our country.
        They even have a mining room where visitor can mine a hunk of coal and take it home with them. Very interesting and educational.
        A lot of people come down on Unions – but without them and our forefathers willing to fight for decent working conditions we all would still be working in sweatshops for very little pay. Even in today’s society – history is being repeated. Sweatshops are being instilled since so many have lost their jobs and will take anything to pay the rent and put food on the table.
        I am familiar with a case right now of just how unjust the greedy can be and how far they are willing to go for the almighty dollar. More later.

  • arise_kill_eat

    Common sense; anti-corruption; anti-political correctness; anti-entitlement; work ethics; anti-greed; moral and personal resonsibility. These are the principles, if adhered to, that will save this country from an inevitable fall into chaos. If we do not start making sound choices, our very way of life as we know it now will soon be over. Should we as Americans be entitled to health care? I do NOT think so. You make decisions in your life that have consequences. You decide to not get an education so you can have a decent jobb why should the government reward that! You decide not to help your kids with homework they stay in poverty. You are lazy,suffer the consequences.
    Greed, it’s the root of everything that wrong with America today. It breeds corruption. Greed to be powerfull. Greed to make the most money. Greed to be the most entitled.
    Work ethics…..the future is NOT SO BRIGHT! The couch potato video game generation of children is upon us and growing rapidly.
    Common sense, why is insider trading allowed in Congress? Why do we allow lobbyist? Why do we allow unlimited terms in Congress? Why do the people proposing this health care not want this health care for themselves?
    Did you know that a Democracy…by its very nature, is destined to fail? Eventually a civilization will collapse under a Democracy because of greed, lack of personal resposibility and corruption. Follow me on this one if you will. Our leaders are elected by the people that have the most to lose. Corruption will infiltrate so that it ensures only candidates that will serve their interest will be elected. These leaders will “take care of” those that elected them. This will happen over and over and over…again and again. Our leaders give entitlements to our minority segments of the population as to give them hope and support. Eventually…these entitlements become a necessity because it breeds laziness. These minorities will have to have these to survive (or so they have become to believe). Eventually, these minorities will become the majority and will only elect those that will continue the entitlements. The greedy for power politicians understand this so they are hell bent on giving these entitlements (AS THIS KEEPS THEM IN POWER)This will eventually lead to our country going broke paying for all these entitlements. Well….eventually is HERE!!!!! I am a small fish in a big pond of greed, corruption and laziness. BUT, I do believe with common sense……making hard choices….and by pulling the “tit” out of all those mouths that are sucking this country dry…..we might have a chance to save a free democracy that has created the best country in the history of our civilization.

  • http://ethan7blanchard.zoomshare.com/2.shtml Raymond Heckler

    Oh Gerard, such a guy

  • http://www.booksbyoliver.com OhioRiver

    Wonderful article and I wonder how many (few) of us would endure the hardships they had before/during/after arriving to America.

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