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A Christmas Opportunity For Unity

December 25, 2012 by  

A Christmas Opportunity For Unity

Political tensions at home and abroad sometimes cause us to forget that as human beings — no matter our backgrounds, beliefs or ambitions — we are all in this together. Bitter partisan bickering over domestic policy has the potential to ruin families and friendships and make us hate complete strangers. And propagandized reports from abroad can lead us to view entire populations of people with disdain.

There will always be evil in the world. No amount of scientific research or religious study will ever reveal to us a definitive answer as to exactly why that is. But for the vast majority of us, life is about families, friendships and personal goals; things, in a perfect world, that would be encumbered only by the stresses of basic survival.

This, however, is not a perfect world. We are each subject to political quarreling amplified by the always-on media and sanctioned by motive-driven people in positions of power close to home and all over the world. Many of us remain engaged in a constant battle of Us versus Them which we are encouraged by leaders and pundits to live out in almost every aspect of our lives.

We are citizens versus aliens.

We are Republicans versus Democrats versus Libertarians.

We are conservatives versus liberals.

We are religious versus non-religious.

We are Americans versus non-Americans.

We are ethnicity versus ethnicity, race versus race, religion versus religion, gay versus straight, man versus woman, young versus old and everything in-between.

America is polarized and, in fact, the whole of the world is. But what should remain above all: We are all humans. The vast majority of us share the same love for those closest to us, the same pain for the loss of those loved ones and the same want for the best possible outcomes in life. We all require food, water, shelter and clothing; and we all do what we feel we must to acquire those things. Some of us seem obviously misguided in our pursuits; but in one way or another, we all are.

In the weeks leading up to the holidays, there was much anxiety throughout the Nation as people who care for one another, but often share diametrically opposed political opinions, prepared to gather for festive fun. College students will have come home, often only to turn their grandparents’ faces red with newfound liberalism. To everyone’s dismay, drunken uncles will proffer confused renditions of political talking points from the most extreme and misguided pundits of either right or leftist philosophies. Family members and friends, perhaps having imbibed one too many, may get into heated and worthless political quarrels.

But a better option would be to leave the political discussions alone — not because they are unimportant, but because they are far less important than the camaraderie of those around you. There may come a time when policies cooked up in Washington no longer matter; basic survival and cherished relationships might then be all that remain. The shift would likely move us all closer to the prospect of a more perfect world.

If you think it is impossible to lay aside staunch political beliefs, consider the often-repeated story of the remarkable Christmas Truce of 1914, at the height of World War I.

Nearly 100,000 soldiers — mostly British and German — on Europe’s Western Front allowed for one silent night in the midst of a war that would eventually claim 14 million lives.

In 2005, The New York Times compiled a series of excerpts from the letters, journals and memoirs of the men who were there:

The truce broke out spontaneously in many places. Pvt. Albert Moren of the Second Queens Regiment recalled the scene on Christmas Eve near the French village of La Chapelle d’Armentières:

It was a beautiful moonlit night, frost on the ground, white almost everywhere; and about 7 or 8 in the evening there was a lot of commotion in the German trenches and there were these lights -I don’t know what they were. And then they sang “Silent Night” – “Stille Nacht.” I shall never forget it, it was one of the highlights of my life. I thought, what a beautiful tune.

Rifleman Graham Williams of the Fifth London Rifle Brigade recalled how the mood spread:

Then suddenly lights began to appear along the German parapet, which were evidently make-shift Christmas trees, adorned with lighted candles, which burnt steadily in the still, frosty air! … First the Germans would sing one of their carols and then we would sing one of ours, until when we started up “O Come, All Ye Faithful” the Germans immediately joined in singing the same hymn to the Latin words Adeste Fideles. And I thought, well, this is really a most extraordinary thing – two nations both singing the same carol in the middle of a war.

The shared carols inspired Capt. Josef Sewald of Germany’s 17th Bavarian Regiment to make a bold gesture:

I shouted to our enemies that we didn’t wish to shoot and that we make a Christmas truce. I said I would come from my side and we could speak with each other. First there was silence, then I shouted once more, invited them, and the British shouted “No shooting!” Then a man came out of the trenches and I on my side did the same and so we came together and we shook hands – a bit cautiously!

The enemies quickly became friends, as Cpl. John Ferguson of the Second Seaforth Highlanders recalled:

We shook hands, wished each other a Merry Xmas, and were soon conversing as if we had known each other for years. We were in front of their wire entanglements and surrounded by Germans – Fritz and I in the center talking, and Fritz occasionally translating to his friends what I was saying. We stood inside the circle like street corner orators. … What a sight – little groups of Germans and British extending almost the length of our front! Out of the darkness we could hear laughter and see lighted matches, a German lighting a Scotchman’s cigarette and vice versa, exchanging cigarettes and souvenirs.

On Christmas Day, some Germans and British held a joint service to bury their dead. Second Lt. Arthur Pelham Burn of the Sixth Gordon Highlanders was there:

Our Padre … arranged the prayers and psalms, etc., and an interpreter wrote them out in German. They were read first in English by our Padre and then in German by a boy who was studying for the ministry. It was an extraordinary and most wonderful sight. The Germans formed up on one side, the English on the other, the officers standing in front, every head bared.

According to several accounts, soccer games were played in no man’s land with makeshift balls that Christmas. Lt. Kurt Zehmisch of Germany’s 134th Saxons Infantry Regiment witnessed a match:

Eventually the English brought a soccer ball from their trenches, and pretty soon a lively game ensued. How marvelously wonderful, yet how strange it was. The English officers felt the same way about it. Thus Christmas, the celebration of Love, managed to bring mortal enemies together as our friends for a time.

Second Lt. Bruce Bairnsfather of the First Warwickshires saw an even more unusual fraternization:

The last I saw of this little affair was a vision of one of my machine gunners, who was a bit of an amateur hairdresser in civilian life, cutting the unnaturally long hair of a docile Boche, who was patiently kneeling on the ground while the automatic clippers crept up the back of his neck.

Not everyone was so charitable. Cpl. Adolf Hitler of the 16th Bavarians lambasted his comrades for their unmilitary conduct:

Such things should not happen in wartime. Have you Germans no sense of honor left at all?

When Gen. Sir Horace Smith-Dorrien, commander of the British II Corps, learned of the consorting, he was irate:

I have issued the strictest orders that on no account is intercourse to be allowed between the opposing troops. To finish this war quickly, we must keep up the fighting spirit and do all we can to discourage friendly intercourse.

Inevitably, both sides were soon ordered back to their trenches. Capt. Charles “Buffalo Bill” Stockwell of the Second Royal Welch Fusiliers recalled how the peace ended early on Dec. 26:

At 8:30, I fired three shots into the air and put up a flag with “Merry Christmas” on it on the parapet. He [a German] put up a sheet with “Thank You” on it, and the German captain appeared on the parapet. We both bowed and saluted and got down into our respective trenches, and he fired two shots into the air, and the war was on again.

We’re all in this together, regardless of what media pundits, power-hungry leaders and motive-driven lobbyists have to say.

Merry Christmas from the offices of Personal Liberty Digest™.

Sam Rolley

Staff writer Sam Rolley began a career in journalism working for a small town newspaper while seeking a B.A. in English. After learning about many of the biases present in most modern newsrooms, Rolley became determined to find a position in journalism that would allow him to combat the unsavory image that the news industry has gained. He is dedicated to seeking the truth and exposing the lies disseminated by the mainstream media at the behest of their corporate masters, special interest groups and information gatekeepers.

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  • Vigilant

    “There may come a time when policies cooked up in Washington no longer matter; basic survival and cherished relationships might then be all that remain. The shift would likely move us all closer to the prospect of a more perfect world.”

    Quite the opposite, I would expect. Once we return to basic survival, you can be guaranteed that the shift would likely return us to Hobbes’ world where life is “nasty, brutish and short.” That is a “perfect world” you can bet I won’t be happy to greet, nor will most people.

  • richard brooks

    tolerance instead of intolerance

    • Robert Smith

      Gets my vote.


    • Bill

      So, out of one side of yor mouth you talk about tolerance. And out of the other side of your mouth you make hateful remarks about… fill in the blanks

      So much for building your credibility

      • Robert Smith

        Tolerance gets my vote. Live with it.

        Yes, I’m intolerant of forcing a woman to remain pregnant if she doesn’t want to be pregnant. It’s HER decision, not yours, Bill.

        I’m intolerant of anyone who denys a loving comple marriage simply because they are the same sex. That’s THEIR decision, not yours Bill.

        I’m intolerant of folks who demand that someone live in pain. I advocate that if they choose to they can exit by their own choice. That’s THEIR decision, not yours, Bill.

        So, yes! I’m intolerant of YOU making decisions for other people.

        Like I said, live with it, or not. Your choice.


        • tony newbill

          Rob I am not in favor of a Government deciding my health treatment because once this Power is concentrated it has in the past government controlled policy become a political weapon driven by ideology .

      • tony newbill

        Rob see what happens when a Government controlled system becomes Ideologically controlled ??? This is why the Private sector needs to be between the Individual and the Independent Industry NOT Government Intervening in the heath rights of the Individual .

        The Individual needs to be Independently Cared for and Obamas Top Healthcare CZAR who wrote the Obamacare bill thinks People are like Cattle and that One plan fits all Individuals , so this is where the Ideology can infiltrate the system and people get LOST through the cracks and that fits well into the Depopulation Ideologues !!!!
        I will get you the link to Obama CZAR Emanuel advice on how you should be termed for healthcare ….

      • tony newbill

        Rob heres the Link , so you really want these Ideologues making your healthcare decisions ???

      • Bill

        Again, you are making up things that you think I think. You are just showing your ignorance and you do not know what you are talking about




      • Robert Smith

        From tony: “so you really want these Ideologues making your healthcare decisions”

        He is attempting to ask REAL questions and get answers.

        Health care resources are limited.

        Right now we have a choice…

        First is the current system where companies who are obliged to make bunches of money for stockholders by keeping folks “in plan” and denying health care if there is any reason to do so. I’ve had health care denied and I had to go see (and pay for) a lawyer to get me what my doctor said I needed. And, I’ve paid health insurance for most of my life. GREED kept me from the treatment I needed for awhile. If I hadn’t fought for it no telling how it would have turned out, except that it was gonna be bad.

        With the government administering things they are not obliged to make huge amounts of money and they will have more resources for more treatments.

        How would YOU distribute health resources?

        I’m glad someone is asking the questions and proposing answers.


    • eddie47d

      Great story Sam Rolley and I have heard it before. The lesson I learned many years ago is that most people can get along like the soldiers in the trenches. Then we have elites,officers or group leaders who say we can’t and shouldn’t get along. They tell you that you must dispise another person and then your life will be better.They are generally wrong.

  • John R. Howell

    Does anyone really expect that the liberal (communist-fascist) politicians, media, and people will become less so?? Does anyone really believe that true conservative Patriots will give up their fight to preserve this country for our children and grandchildren?? Not hardly!! John R. Howell

    • wandamurline

      I am sending this message to all who are gun owners, so please feel free to pass this on. The New York Journal News this morning released all the names and addresses of all the permitted gun owners in a two county area…posted for all to see…talk about privacy invasion. Now, I would like to let everyone know the names and addresses and phone numbers of the people of the NY Journal…Editors are Janet Hasson, 3 Gate House Road Maraoneck NY 10534 (284)594-2197; Cyndee Royle, 1133 Westchester Avenue, Suite N110, White Plains, NY 10604 (914)694-9300; Nancy Cutler, 9 Woodwin Lane, Spring Valley, NY (845)354-3485. Parent company, Gannett CEO, Gracie C. Martore, 728 Springvale Road, Great Falls, VA 22066 (703)759-5954. And let’s not forget the reporter of the story, Dwight R. Worley, 23006 139 Avenue, Springfield Gardens, NY 11413 (718)527-0832. If you would like to send a thank you (ha) or a note of discontentment or give these lovlies a phone call, please be my guest and pass it on so that others around the country get a look at the system that puts people in jeopardy in order to promote the gun prohibition of this administration. Personally, I hope each individual files a law suite against this company, and the people personally…see how their pocketbooks feel after that one. Not only did they put the permit owners in jeopardy by printing their names and addresses, they also put their neighbors in jeopardy because now the criminals know that their neighbors do not have a weapon.

      • Karolyn

        I don’t endorse what they did, but these are all public records and as such are open to the public.

      • Robert Smith

        Maybe the right wing can publish those who are legally married and prounounce the rest to be living in “sin.”

      • Bill

        Now we can publish a list of people who do not have guns, for all of the criminals to see

      • eddie47d

        Shame on you Wanda! That has been done before with deadly results and certainly is an invasion of their home and family. You are no better!





      “John R. Howell,”



  • teddy maher

    Those folks espousing tolerance are asking half the country to tolerate the corruption in our leadership the systemic deterioration of the principles that made this country great the rewarding of wall st thieves, union thugs ,freeloaders and illegal invaders which are raping the once productive middle class…. Let us all stand down and tolerate the deviates while they destroy our young ,Let us all stand down and tolerate the proliferation of a lifestyle that is the antithesis of what this once blessed nation stood for….

    • Paul Wells

      Absolutely correct! Anyone who has a shred of patriotism, moral fibre, scruples, and belief in God, will NEVER capitulate to the left wing idiocy that is corrupting our values, in the guise of “Progessivism”! Their absence of moral compass is clearly destroying our country, and we need to remain vigilant against the creep to the sewer they espouse!

      • Bill

        Good post, Paul

      • Robert Smith

        Anyone who has a shred of patriotism, moral fibre, scruples, and belief in God, will NEVER capitulate to the right wing idiocy that is corrupting our values, in the guise of “capitalsm”! Their absence of moral compass is clearly destroying our country, and we need to remain vigilant against the creep to the sewer they espouse!

        Remember, things like corporate welfare, Monsanto corrupting our food supply…


      • Bill

        Monsanto has your polititians bought and paid for. We tried to pass a bill to label GMO’s here in California but your buddies defeated it

      • deerinwater

        Paul says; “our values,our values, our value, sour value, sour value, sour value, sour values, our value, sour value, sour value, sour value, sour value, sour value, sour value sour values, our values our values, our values, our values, our value, sour values, our values”

        Who died and made you God Paul ?

        This nation was founded on descent Paul ~ get over it. ~ You have got no more and no less “rights” then anyone else. Live your values, display your values as a beacon for all to see and follow. You are attempting to legislate your values and behave like a spoiled child when you encounter opposition.

        If your Brand X is better, it should be easy enough to to sell or are you subscribing to Mitt Romney notion that 47 % of the voting American people are worthless and not worth appealing too?

        If that is the case, ~ I don’t why you bother to continue breathing in such an awful place.

        ~ Something must be going right for you, something that you are not telling us about.

        I never met a wealthy man that didn’t act like he was broke and losing money. Not all, but some will go so far as believing they are more deserving than others because they are wealthy and ask us work for next to nothing. This is considered fair in their eyes as they can then find us “useful” to them and of course we can decline. The cheaper we are , the more useful we believe that we become to them. ~

        But in truth, ~ the act of volunteer given , diminished the value of the “gift”.

        This truth applies to rich and poor alike. as long as it’s being given it will be accepted and in short time the “giving” will be demanded.

        It is the fight of control over supply and demand forces that determines “VALUES” . While you would have us all just lay down and accept your understanding of “Values”

        And for you to believe that your party affiliation holds some kind of elevated collective “moral” high ground to your political opposition like a Muslim fanatic, tells the rest of us that you are beyond help but at least you do not represent 47% of the American votes.

    • richard brooks

      so you want to return to the days of slavery, indentured servitude, a class system, chattel property, religious rule ( as long as it is your particular religion ), the days of the elite ruling the peons.
      moral indignation can run many ways. the problem you fascists always have is never understanding that the majority may decide you are one of the ‘undesirables’ and decide to eliminate you.
      no one cares what religion you follow, whom you marry or if you marry.

      the guise of patriotism or religious morals to validate your actions is a rather old and lame excuse. a favorite among christians and fascists.

      • Bill

        No Richard,
        We want to return to a system of freedom, hard work, personal responsibility and a tyranical government out of our lives

        • tony newbill

          Bill they think there is no way that a Individual driven Supply side economy can continue and not encourage over population and over consumption of what they consider a Full Earth !!
          This is why they are acting dysfunctional and not upholding their constitutional duty !!

      • deerinwater

        Bill says; “We want to return to a system of freedom, hard work, personal responsibility and a tyrannical government out of our lives”

        Well, exactly when have you been denied hard work and freedom?

        Where was it that you were not held personally responsible?

        and above all what has been introduced by government that is deemed tyrannical? Being held personally responsible for your own health care?

        All valid questions that beg an answer after such a statement.

      • deerinwater

        tony newbill says:

        “Bill they think there is no way that a Individual driven Supply side economy can continue and not encourage over population and over consumption of what they consider a Full Earth !!”

        I say; Hmm? What gives you this unique ability to know what other people think? I want such super powers! Is it something you eat or maybe a secret ceremony? Must you sell your soul to the devil at midnight at the cross roads?

        I tend to believe that you are both making stuff up. Full Earth? novel notion, is that a good or bad thing?

        There one thing you will have a difficult time a doing, and that is convincing a progressive that the human spirit is weak and cowardly and has limitations.

  • Karolyn

    As long as people hang onto “My way or the highway,” there will not be peace. Fortunately, though, there are growing numbers of people turning to the truth that can be found within and are working to overcome hatred, anger, bitterness and greed. The story of the Germans and British is a testament to our fundamental humanness. We are all brothers and sisters and are all in this together.

    • dan

      there’s a few messages for you at :

      • Karolyn

        Not for me. Maybe that’s your cup of tea.

    • John R. Howell

      Obama is not human. Like most Moslems, he has a savage contempt for Americans and Christians in particular. He hates this country and has even burned our flag, and he is trying everything he can to destroy this country and take us all the way to communism-fascism. If he succeeds, then the media, politicians, and useful idiots who helped him will be the first to say, “Goleeee, what happened?” John R. Howell

      • eddie47d

        Your rant proved that you are not a Christian. Please stay outside of the churches walls because your hatred and division is not welcomed.




      • deerinwater


        OH! You mean that they have ever stopped? LOL! I think that they threw the kitchen sink at her 12 years ago.

        You got to hand it to the GOP , they can get creative but it’s hers ~if she wants it.

        I don’t believe that she does. People come with an expiration date while none of us want to fess up to it.


        “deerinwater” – HAPPY HOLIDAYS, SIR; BEST WISHES FOR 2013.


    • deerinwater

      No Karolyn. ~ you are right, ~ there will be no peace for these few. They will go to their grave fighting this same battle, over and over in their head. ~ They will find waterholes that attract like minds to feed this hateful fury. ~ They love it!

      They are born this way, ~ I’ve said many times, they are mad because they were born. One of my closest old buddies was this way, He had the world by the tail it seemed, hansom,blond hair, blued eyed German, women all over him, Daddy owed the Mill in Del City, poor rich kid, cars, guns, hunting and fishing, Uncles owned 5000 acres of cotton fields in the surrounding area that later became natural gas wells, the Uncles all died and it when to him and his brothers, ~ He married 6 times, one was a movie star, ~ spent a lot of time in Vegas living large ~ When I met him , he and his brothers were operating a Tire Store that specialized in European cars, fast cars. He said, that it keep him out of the bottle for 10 hours. ~ none of them had to work. ~They loved to hate government! Speaking of government and taxes , he once said, ~ “After they steal my money, I don’t give a damn what they do with it!, ~ They stole my money! ”

      Which made perfect sense and if you considered all the money that was pouring into his pockets, no doubt he was paying a lot of taxes. ~ He hated government so ~ but he would never ever intentionally break a law. (speeding excluded of course) . Hunting license, fishing licenses, permits, duck stamps, attorneys and documents, you name it, he paid it all.

      His brothers were much like him, ~ and as the years passed they each committed suicide , one after another.

      They had it all, but refused to be happy. ~ I miss them and all the many years hurting and fishing we enjoyed together.

      Why could they not be happy? ~ as they felt the world was crowding in on them and they were victims of being successful white men.

  • Tony Newbill

    They only thing that will bring unity is a Reality Check on what is coming at every human being on Earth …. Famine !!! This needs to be Brought to the Forefront of all debates in every corner of the world because its why we see every dereliction of duty to upholding liberty and rights known to man kind and to not expose this trend of supply shortage growing and growing bigger and bigger when we know this to be the truth is a crime against humanity when we have the Innovative ability to alter this !!

    to the video at 1:45 they say we have been consuming

    more food than we produce as a world for 6 years NOW !!!

    Urban populations will rapidly strain

    services, resources

    w w
    That plays into this CNN opinion piece , read the last paragraph about a “ The global power shift “ , the Bond Market Collapse would bring on such a “ Shift “ .

    w w

    I think you have enough proof of an attempt to transform the Free Market that People invested in the Markets should be made aware of such a manipulation , for risking money when these hierarchy are playing this game of musical chairs with the market is a crime that people should be made aware of .
    Merry X-mas

  • Blair mcgowan

    As a purposeful act of compassion, This progressive activist read for the first time your blog. I have been fascinated my entire life by that moment in 1914 — a fleeting chance to reverse history and choose peace… I will return to see if your embrace of other can survive the holidays??

    • Karolyn

      Don’t hold your breath, Blair!

  • Bill

    Sad to say but there will be no unity between the political parties. A line has been drawn in the sand: we will either continue with freedoms and capitalism or will will fall off a cliff into tyranny and socialism

    There is no compromise

    • John R. Howell

      WELL SAID!!!!!!!!!! John R. Howell

    • tony newbill

      The parties and the class warfare that has been employed to divide the classes of people have become like Iron and Clay , the bible reference to it talks about the division between nations and societies would be like this in that they will not stick together .

      Alas! for that day is GREAT, So THAT NONE IS LIKE IT… Note that well! Once again, we read of the SAME TIME; the Great Tribulation prophesied by Christ; the SAME TIME described by Daniel; a time of trouble SO GREAT that it is absolutely unparalleled in all the earth’s history! And UPON WHOM IS THAT GREAT TIME OF NATIONAL TRIBULATION TO COME?

      It is even the time of JACOB’S TROUBLE… (Jer. 30:1-7).

    • deerinwater

      Of course there IS compromise, ~ Our form of government was founded on the notions of “Compromise” and “Consent” . Mitt Romney was a “compromise” . Who can say today that Ron Paul was not compromised?

      To think otherwise is absurd. Life is a process of compromise. If it wasn’t, we’d all sit around and eat pie! I’d never allowed my daughter to be anything but Daddy’s baby girl.

      I”d never bought that big Austin stone house, never got married.

      We compromise because we live in a world with “other’s’ and they too have choices and opinions just like we ourselves do.

      Why attempt to advocate something that is simply not so and if it were so, the world would be sick from it?

      Have you ever found “YOURSELVES” compromised? I certainly have, in fact ~ I stay in check constantly . if it were not so ~ I’d be a dictator and you would all know my name.

      The DNC is the party of compromise, ~ an inclusive party that is willing to represent all creeds and colors. We agree that descent is not disloyally. We agree that the absence of opposition does not constitute support. We agree that the absence of war does not constitute a peace. We agree in one nation under God with Liberty and Justice for All is something to aspire too and just speaking the words does not make it so.

  • Dan Mancuso

    I had never heard this story before, what a great story.The one real tragic irony of Christmas, though, is that after Christmas is over people go back to being at ‘war’ with one another again.
    I love the ‘good will towards men’ that flourishes around Christmas, if even for only a day or so. The whole time I’m reading those reminisces from those soldiers and being amazed at the spontinaity and real goodness that they were experiencing, I’m thinking this is great, but very soon they are going to be shooting and killing each other…
    I suppose we shoudl all really appreciate the goodwill that does flourish for a short while this time of year – and I do – I just wish it could be extended to the whole year.

  • sk1951

    This is a very serious problem not only in America but all over the world and truly needs some kind of rational thinking from both sides of this issue. This war and separation between the Christian God religious and none Christian God religious borders on the Twilight Zone or a Spielberg book. The separation it creates in our society is not good for anyone or anything and is counterproductive in so many ways. Even deadly and dangerous.
    Since prayer is normally for well-wishing or sympathy, public prayer should be done without invoking and beseeching help from metaphysical entities or gods or turned into a short religious church service.
    Personal prayer is little more than meditation seeking inner personal strength to withstand a trauma or as a prayer for hope and strength for themselves or another person.
    Religious people do not understand that even none religious people pray…they just don’t invoke the metaphysical into it. Praying is not exclusive to the religious or Christian God religious. And prayer should not be used to set up a battle field to make a stand against the none religious in public prayer. This should not be viewed as a chance to force the will of the religious onto the public.
    Public prayer involves and exposes everyone but is not currently being done in a way that is polite and respectful to everyone. I would not support public blaspheming as an alternative counter public prayer but this is the point I am attempting to make.
    The God religious (appear) to only believe their side to be valid and will not validate or accept any alternate points of view or belief. The religious seem to feel that “Well they believe in nothing so what does it matter to them if we pray in public.” This is not what I call a Christian attitude.
    God religious metaphysical mythological believers simply will not take into consideration the feelings of others not of a God faith or Church defined reality, of which there are many people. This group consider themselves none God religious or Spiritual “in personal nature”. They understand Christian values and theory but do not need religion to define it and simply cannot believe in a metaphysical reality. This does not make them any less Christian in nature or evil. It simply makes them different in their beliefs.
    The God religious (appear) to believe and envision themselves to be the only ones being persecuted and harassed in the pubic prayer and public religiosity debate. This is not a true and real picture of what is happening in common social reality.
    There are many valid questions that the God religious need to help answer and define:
    The God based religious know and understand that God truly can do nothing because of their Free Will doctrine. So what is the point in pubic prayer of invoking the name of God? It is just to antagonize the none religious or a chance to publicly proselytize? Is it just to lift a leg and spot a mark on the pacifists that do not believe that the metaphysical is real? Is it just to ramrod invoke a God power onto everyone disregarding other Spiritual beliefs?
    Truly if the religious would simply respect others and put a tiny bit of thought into what pubic prayer should and could be I don’t think anyone would object to none God religious prayer. But then to the religious…what would be the point? How about unification?

    • deerinwater

      Hmm? ~ that’s been sort of a quandary for myself as well sk1951. ~ While I do not consider myself as religious, I do consider myself “spiritual” , I am (and as far as I’m concerned everyone is) a spirit first and foremost manifested in the human form. I host a body. It’s not complicated, it not confusing. We are all greater then the sum of all of our physical parts. In fact everything that lives is. (except for DaveH anyway)

      I exercise tolerance with religious people and their desire and need for public prayer. It does not offend or hurt me in anyways what so ever. Nor would I discourage the practice of public prayer unless lesser individuals attempted to make it problematic to do.

      And I do think at some point this will happen, but for now, it’s okay. Though out the Gospels, Mathew , Mark, Luke and John we were warned of open public prayer and that was not how Christ expected prayer to be conducted.

      But many, if not most Christians pick and choose what they want to get out of scripture. Honoring one verse to the letter while completely ignoring another, my dear mother is no different. You can argue with her until you are blue in the face but you will never get through to her. It would have to be for your amusement for she will not be amused.

      Jewish and Muslim people have not taken the liberty to do much public open prayer in the US , that I’m aware of anyway. But certainly it has happen, I;m just not aware.

      Christian’s would have cow if at a determined time a few dozen people whipped out their prayer rug , their ass in the air to the west and head to the east and stated some chat they couldn’t understand in the middle of Walmart.

      The United State is one of the few nations that does not have a national religion but you will have a hard time convincing Christians of that. ~ I suppose “emanate domain” applies by sheer numerical value and tradition.

      Now as I understand it, Australia tells new comers straight off . “We are a Christian Nation here and if that offered you, you need to go somewhere else” That is something that America hasn’t done because it can’t be said and be correct.

  • deerinwater

    “You’ve tried everything, but your blood pressure won’t go down. Find out the real reason extreme diets and vigorous exercise aren’t lowering your blood pressure.”

    Good place for such an add! I’d guess many here are candidates for high blood pressure.




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