RBT, I think you missed my point.
We shouldn’t NEED an organization to protect what we already have.
Our basic Constitutional rights ARE threatened.
They are threatened by people who took an oath to uphold the Constitution.(shows how good “their” word is)
We shouldn’t need a pro-gun lobby.
The 2nd amendment should be the protection we need. Some just elected officials can’t see the obvious. Or won’t
The GOA and NRA help to protect those rights, but we shouldn’t even need them if our (leaders?) understood what the Bill of Rights are about.

No, Jim—-I got it 100% and agree with this restatement of yours too, except that I will again say that the way things are, we DO need a pro-gun lobby (provided it is reasonable and responsible). The system no longer works the way it should and our “elected” folks don’t respond to anything but the lobbies and those who give them the biggest campaign contributions. What you say about the Bill of Rights being enough SHOULD be true but unfortunately is not.

Hi RTB, I guess I’m the one who misunderstood.(sorry)
I don’t think lobbyists were what the founders had in mind, when they set this system up.
It got that way in increments, until it grew into the monster that it is. Now it’s been around so long that some seem to think it’s how it should be.

No apology necessary, Jim. There is so much “misunderstanding” floating around the topic of guns that it’s hard to figure out who is saying what most of the time.

The founders most definitely did not think lobbyists and special interests were the way to go, and several of them, GW among the first, warned about the evils of the corporate plutocracy if it was allowed to get out of hand. Well, in spite of Jackson and Lincoln and TR and FDR, it DID “grow into the monster that it is now” and we are paying the price..

It’s been around in it’s present (and most malignant) form for maybe 35 years, but that IS long enough for the young folks to think it’s “how it should be”. Except that they seem to be “getting it” somewhat—-rejecting Romney/Ryan and the GOP platform offers some hope for better “understanding”.

So, show us how smart you are, right brain thinker,
And tell us in detail how the current economy is Bush’s fault. Don’t just spout rhetoric, elaborate with details

I was half kidding, Bill. Almost everybody going back 30+ years can take some blame for today’s economy. This particular dead horse has been beaten for as long as people have been saying that the current economy is ALL O’Bama’s FAULT, which is less true than blaming it all on Bush. Also, a lot of blame goes on the Republicans who came after Bush and have been saying NO since O’Bama’s election. We need not waste the time to keep beating it (and don’t tell me that no horse is too dead to beat—-that’s my line).

Please DO remember that you started it with your own half joking “rhetoric” when YOU said, “But it probably was all Bush’s fault”—–I was just agreeing with you and if you want to get into “details”, elaborate for us on how it is NOT Bush’s fault, since you seem to think that none of it was or you wouldn’t have made the joke.

RBT
That was a good side step

Better than just a “good” side step, Bill, although perhaps not rising to the level of excellent, because of how complex the situation is. O’Bama can be faulted for many things that he has done, but the fact remains that Bush and a lot of other folks DID do things that led to the “present economy”, and O’Bama DID do what was needed to keep us from going completely down the tubes, and much of “his economy” IS “Bush’s Fault” or at least that of Bush’s “buddies”. (Clinton is a major sinner in all of it because he helped to set things up for Bush’s buddies by allowing the repeal of Glass-Steagall)

To get into just a few small “details”, this deficit-debt thing we’re in right now is more directly caused by Bush’s two unfunded wars, his unfunded Medicare Part D, and his tax cuts that didn’t “trickle down”, to say nothing of his failure to keep the financial “wizards” in check.. Way more of our present deficit and debt is “due to Bush” than anything O’Bama has done. That is common knowledge among all that have studied the situation, in spite of the “rhetoric” of the deniers and folks who say “Bush is history—focus on now”. You can find all sorts of data—-I have been looking at it since O’Bama’s first election and it’s pretty clear..

RBT,
I can see by your comments that you are ignorant to reality. You just lost any credibility that you claimed to have.

You are just a typical progressive and I do not believe your BS story that you are a gun owner and most other gun owners want more gun laws. Yeah, right. That probably why Ducks fly backwards

Dang, Bill

I was hoping we could talk some, but you are apparently one of those guys that only talks to people who think exactly as they do. You know, you all sit around in a circle and just keep repeating the same stuff to each other and nodding your heads?

And when you THINK someone doesn’t agree with you, you say they have no credibility.and start calling them names. I didn’t say “most other gun owners want more gun laws”—-you are, unfortunately, what is called a “motivated reasoner” and hear what you want to hear, not what was said. Go back and read it again with a more open mind. Did you go read the Washington Post article about that poll?.. If you do, you will find that only 1% or 2% of NRA members favor certain gun laws, meaning that 98% or 99% oppose those particular laws—-I’ll leave it to you to look up which ones they are.

And I don’t give a rodent’s rear end that you can’t seem to accept that a gun owner can have enough of a brain to THINK and be in the slightest bit “progressive”. I won’t turn in my guns because you think that because I think, I shouldn’t own them.

Right now I’m saving up my pennies so I can replace my 12 ga. Franchi autoloader that I’ve owned for nearly 50 years. Sweet gun—pretty to look at, lightweight, handles well—I’m going to get a Beretta Extrema—seen the videos of that gun? Awesome. Last time out at the range, I first fired the .30-06 Model 70 with iron sights—I can’t see that well anymore at age 72, so the scoped AR-15 and the scoped Marlin lever action chambered for the 357 let me hit the target much better. Don’t like guns that don’t kick some, though, and the AR-15 is ugly and doesn’t “feel” right to me. The Model 70 takes me back to the gun I carried way back when—the M-1—that was a “real” gun.

You said, “I can see by your comments that you are ignorant to reality.” and “You are just a typical progressive”. I would love to hear why you think I’m “Ignorant to reality” and what makes me a “progressive” in your mind (and a typical one at that?) Or are you just running your mouth?

Guns are okay ~ I have had many over the years, ~ from nickle plated pimp pistols to finer more effective hand guns, my preference for a working piece was always a S&W 14, 357. I still have dads old goose gun, it’s punishing to shoot, a box of high brass on Sunday will have you crippled up till Thursday. I have a cap and ball flintlock hogleg 50 cal. that Granddad pasted down to me, ~ he kept it in an old cotton sock in his trunk when I was a child and told me neat stories about it.

But my passion has always been canons, I’ve been hand crafting black power canons since I was 9. I’ve made many, I love to fire them and see what they can do. ~ Does this mean that I’m an NRA member or GOP republican? ~ hell no! It just means I enjoy the science and the appreciation of fine handcraft.

So many of you people live in some strange Stereotypical world created for you by media outlets that have processed your views of current affairs and what you should fear for you, ~ that your ability to process information on your own has been somehow lost.

This obsession with “fear” is very unhealthy for anybody.

deer,

I’ll second the cannon thing. Have never come close to owning one, never mind making one, but living in VA has allowed me to visit many Civil War battlefields and see a lot of demonstrations and reenactments. Black powder cannons are truly awesome and I can’t imagine what it must have been like for a couple of hundred to be firing away at the same time, as at Gettysburg. (Or for the infantry to be marching into canister and grape—makes the hair stand up on the back of my neck).

Double ditto on your closing remarks—fear and paranoia truly are the enemy of rational thought.

To all you Fabian Socialist Liberals. Check your history very carefully. Bush did nothing more than what the American People ask him to do. The American People demanded a stop to terrorism on American soil and President Bush delivered. President Bush also advised the American People that it would be a long drawn out process in doing so. The American People still demanded a stop to terrorism. Be very careful of what you ask for, you just migh get it.

Yes. Pretty amazing that donation for Sandy Hooks shootings were being solicited three days before it happened. There is much more information to be found about the Sandy Hooks hoax. People who were supposedly killed that day who are still alive. It is as if this administration is making a mockery of the American people. They staged the shootings and blatantly rub the lie it in the face of the American people. They had to fake this incident to try and strip away our right to bear arms.

Nice try, Eddie
We know what your true motivations are, so quit trying to feed us crap

Because of their need to be different from the mainstream, Liberals are very good at pretending that sow’s ears are silk purses

fast eddie from your comments you remind me of the cartoon figure in the magazines back in the 60′s, for body building, remember him he was the skinny little guy that was always having sand kicked in his face. It’s always got to be a masculine thing with you, big guns, muscle cars etc.

up the hill
airborne

Well lets see. The Govt, Politicians, Police cannot control the Crazys, The Drug Nuts, Or the Criminals, BUT they find it easy to regulatr the Honest Law abiding Citizen. Now this is the silly part or should i say the Sad part.

Your rhetoric has been duly noted and you are a SHILL, a plant . And a would be
gun grabber.

You believe you are right and any other who refuses to agree with you is wrong. For example, I see no gun problem, where you wish to blame an object,I prefer to hold those who break the law accountable to an equal degree of the law broken. Since I don’t agree with you, you will now proclaim me wrong and precede to ridicule and call me names.

I would rather renew my membership to Gun Owners of America. The NRA has backed down to the feds before and let their members down.

If it wasn’t for the NRA , we would have been disarmed years ago, as well as the
GOA and the NAGR all good organizations.

Do you mean Congress or the do nothig idiots

That is a good point, Joe
The illegal immigrants are a protected class, that does not have to show id, gets free welfare, medical and school and they can work for cash and pay no taxes.

The govt has it a$$ backwords. But it probably was all Bush’s fault

Forgot another good group Rocky Mountain Gun Owners and their leader Dudley Brown.