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Guns Save Lives

December 27, 2012 by  


Hello, I’m Wayne Allyn Root for Personal Liberty. Happy Holidays to all my readers. My message is pretty simple this week: Don’t believe the hype from liberals or the media (I know I repeat myself). The fact is: GUNS SAVE LIVES.

Not only do liberals lie… they always come to the wrong conclusion, and usually come up with the wrong solution, in response to every crisis.

As an example, we don’t have a “fiscal cliff” crisis because of a tax problem in America. What we have is a spending problem — Obama is a spending addict. Obama criticized Bush for adding $4 trillion to the debt in eight years. Yet Obama added just under $6 trillion in four years. He is on track to add $12 trillion to our debt by the end of his second term– three times more than Bush. And Obama has produced four consecutive trillion dollar plus deficits for the first time in history. Obama is the biggest spender of any politician in world history.

What does this have to do with guns? It’s the same story. Every time there’s a crisis politicians learn the wrong lesson… come up with the wrong solution… and always use the crisis as a reason to take away our freedoms and grow government bigger.

Take the debt crisis: Obama wants to raise taxes, so we lose our economic freedom, and government grows bigger… while we add more debt to solve a debt crisis. That should work out well!

Take 9/11 — Bush spent billions on the formation of Homeland Security, hundreds of thousands of expensive new government employees, started two wars, and took many of our civil rights away.

Take global warming — Obama wants to tax us to death, double our electric bills, take away our freedoms, and put government in charge of business.

Take the health care crisis — Obama passed Obamacare to raise our taxes, grow government, unionize healthcare workers, and put government in charge of our health.

The same story holds true with the gun control issue spurred by the tragic Newtown school shooting. The liberal politicians and media are using Rahm Emanuel’s famous saying, “Never let a crisis go to waste.” They are trying to turn a terrible tragedy into a gun problem. Their solution is to try to demonize and ban guns. But the Newtown tragedy wasn’t a gun problem; it was a mental illness problem.

Thank goodness the American public has more common sense than the politicians and media big shots. The latest Rasmussen poll is out following the Newtown tragedy. While 27 percent think stricter gun control laws are the solution… a dominant 48 percent believe the answer is more action to treat mental health issues.

It is obvious that many Americans feel in their gut what the statistics I’m about to share with you prove — that guns do much more than kill (in the wrong hands). More often than not, they save lives and prevent violence.

Here are a few proven facts that are too often missing from the gun debate (Thanks to Gun Owners of America and ZeroHedge.com for these statistics):

Based on a 2000 study, Americans use guns to defend themselves from crime and violence 989,883 times annually. Banning guns would leave about 1,000,000 Americans defenseless from criminals who have no problem acquiring guns illegally.

A nationwide survey of almost 5,000 households found that over a five-year period 3.5 percent of households had a member who used a gun to protect themselves, their family, or their property. This also adds up to about the same 1,000,000 incidents annually.

The Clinton Justice Department identified 1.5 million cases per year of citizens using guns to defend themselves.

Another survey found that Americans use guns to frighten intruders away from a home break-in about 500,000 times annually.

Armed citizens shoot criminals more than twice as often as police each year (1,527 to 606).

Each year about 200,000 women use a gun to defend themselves from a sexual crime or abuse.

The Carter Justice Department found that of more than 32,000 attempted rapes, 32 percent were actually committed. But when a woman was armed with a gun or knife, only 3 percent of the attempted rapes were actually successful.

Newer studies all point towards a figure of 2.5 million — that’s the new number for how many times Americans defend themselves from violent criminals each year. 2.5 million. Guns save lives.

Now that we’ve polled the citizens, how about we see what the felons have to say:

  • A survey of male felons in 11 State prisons across the USA found that 34 percent had been scared off, wounded or captured by an armed victim of their crime.
  • 40 percent of felons made a decision not to commit a crime because they feared the potential victim had a gun.
  • 69 percent of felons knew other fellow criminals who had been scared off or captured by an armed victim.
  • 57 percent of felons polled agreed that “criminals are more worried about meeting an armed victim than they are about running into the police.”
  • Statistical comparisons with other countries show that burglars in the United States are far less apt to enter an occupied home than their foreign counterparts who live in countries where fewer civilians own firearms.

These facts (and many more too voluminous to show here) prove that guns — in the right hands — defend citizens, families and children. In short, guns save lives.

By the way… it’s important to note that Barack Obama wants to disarm schools… create “gun free zones.” Yet he spends $60,000 per year to send his precious daughters to exclusive Sidwell Friends School — which has? Drumroll please… ARMED guards. An armed security force of nine to be precise.

And David Gregory of NBC News sends his child there too. Armed guards are necessary for their children. But not yours.

And Michael Moore has armed bodyguards. While he condemns guns.

But for me, it’s always been a personal and emotional argument, even more than a factual one. I’m a proud Jewish American. Over six million of my fellow Jews were enslaved, starved, tortured, and then slaughtered by Adolph Hitler. Before it could happen, in 1938, Hitler banned gun ownership for Jews.

That act on Nov. 11, 1938 was the beginning of the end for German Jews. Millions of Jews were left defenseless from that day forward. Just like the criminals in the studies above, who were far less likely to break into a home or attack a victim, if they feared the victim was armed; Hitler only started his murderous genocide after first ensuring his victims were disarmed, defenseless and helpless.

But why should that surprise anyone. Virtually every dictator in history has started his murderous reign by disarming the population.

The communist leaders of China recently issued a statement in response to our Newtown, Conn., tragedy. They said that Obama must disarm the American people. I wonder why they’re so interested in our people being disarmed? What do you think they have in mind?

I’m a member of both the NRA (National Rifle Association) and JPFO (Jews for the Preservation of Firearms Ownership). Will I support reasonable gun control? Of course.

Should we ensure that mentally ill people cannot purchase guns? Of course.

Should we enforce current gun laws? Of course.

But should we move to ban guns, thereby leaving the law-abiding citizens defenseless and helpless? Never. Not in America.

Should government and law enforcement be the only ones legally able to carry guns? Never. Not in America.

Should government be allowed to take away guns from honest, law-abiding homeowners, business owners, and citizens like me? Only when you pry them from my cold, dead hands.

Thomas Jefferson put it best: “When governments fear the people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny.”*

I’m Wayne Allyn Root for Personal Liberty. See you next week, same time, same place.

Happy New Year. Stay safe and stay vigilant. God Bless.

* While this quote if often attributed to Jefferson, there is no evidence that he ever uttered or wrote these words, according to Monticello.org.–BL

Wayne Allyn Root

(W.A.R.) is a former Presidential candidate, the 2008 Libertarian Vice Presidential nominee and a Tea Party favorite. He is the ultimate capitalist evangelist: a blue-collar S.O.B. (son of a butcher) turned small businessman, entrepreneur, CEO, home-schooler and citizen politician. Root is a talk-show host, bestselling author, business speaker and TV/radio commentator on business, economics, entrepreneurship and politics. He is a regular guest on Fox News, as well as on hundreds of radio shows across the United States. Root's opinions reach tens of millions of Americans as a regular columnist and commentator for many of the most popular political and business websites, including FoxNews.com. He also writes regularly for The Washington Times. He is the bestselling author of seven books. Root serves as national spokesman for several companies, including Asset Strategies International, a global precious metals company, and Senior Economic Advisor to Wealth Masters International, a global financial services company. He is also well known in the television and media industries. Root started his career as an anchorman and host for CNBC (then known as Financial News Network). He has hosted, starred and produced many television shows. Today, he is a producer of the highest-rated television show on Travel Channel, "Ghost Adventures."  Because of his success in the diverse fields of business, media, sports, entertainment and publishing, Root was awarded his own 180-pound granite star in the Las Vegas Walk of Stars. Only 50 legends in the history of Las Vegas have received a star on Las Vegas Boulevard. Root joins Elvis Presley, Frank Sinatra, Wayne Newton, Liberace and Dean Martin, along with other icons of business and entertainment. Root's star can be viewed in front of New York New York Resort. A native New Yorker and graduate of prestigious Columbia University, this capitalist evangelist proudly resides in Nevada, a State with no personal or business income tax. His website is ROOTforAmerica.com.

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  • Liberterian

    More gun control is not the answer and will never be. Common sense is never the case for liberals, because they are always regulate and legislate freaks first. More law is not the solution, enforce the ones we already have. We should never as a people consider even in the least to become a nation of sheep subserviant to the chance of the birth of a totally intrusive government that would exert total control of an unarmed nation. No one loves tragedy but some of this tragedy would be averted if we would fully train capable teachers and staff in schools to be conceal carry and competant. In Isreal they ended their problem of school attacks by arming and training the people within the schools to the fullest and have defeated the problem. Nothing is full proof but it has been proven effective. You can’t have police in all the schools, the financial burden would be too great. Guards and Police can be singled out and planned for by people of criminal mind but a hard target with capable, trained and willing teachers, and staff, within the schools have a fighting chance. The police can’t be everywhere and to disarm the American public and leave guns only to criminals and the insane which can buy them through black market sources is not the answer. More mental health care is necessary to help the problem but can not of itself solve the problem. Why are so many of our military heros commiting suicide because no one wants to help them? Is it the gun’s fault?
    We are a violence oriented society from our very beginning. The media is there to provide this violence to the public and then become alarmed when there fruit comes to bear its on product. What greater instant fame could be reaped by the insane than to become a household word even though in the infamous sense.

    • eddie47d

      Wayne La Pierre was totally wrong on school shootings in Israel. He said they had many when its only been two and one was in 1974 and the other in 2008. Both were assaults from Palestinian terrorists not disgruntled Israeli citizens. Some school teacher are armed to protect the kids from such attacks but not all. As well armed as Israeli citizens are it is still far fewer than than in the USA (% wise). Guns are for protecting their nation from outside invasion not from fear of gun free zones. Israel take guns serious and are accountable for them which is totally opposite of here. We are reckless and treat them like play things.

      • http://wildeyguns.com The Christian American

        Israel practices our Posse Comitatus Act. Works for them and would work here.

    • Flashy

      “More gun control is not the answer ” <— libertarian

      Ummm…we don't have gun control in this nation. If we did, fewer bad guys would have guns. And the good guys would still have theirs.

      As for Israel, perhaps you should read the post from an israeli citizen posted here today …

      • Vicki

        Flashy says:
        ““More gun control is not the answer ” <— libertarian

        Ummm…we don't have gun control in this nation. If we did, fewer bad guys would have guns. And the good guys would still have theirs. "

        Demonstrably false. Since you know it is false this would make your statement a willful lie. Why do you bother? Do you think anyone, even a new reader, would be fooled?

        Do you still wonder that you have ZERO credibility on this board?

      • Jeff

        No non-Austrian could possibly be on DaveH’s level, but why has no one addressed the question I’ve posed numerous times. If guns are so great for preventing gun violence, why does the U.S. have 5% of the world’s population, 50% of its guns, and a gun death rate hundreds of times higher than any other advanced nation. Can none of you see a connection?

      • Vicki

        Jeff writes:
        ” Can none of you see a connection?”

        We see a connection. Irrelevant and /or unproven statistics are commonly used by liars and politicians.

      • Jeff

        Statistics are misused all the time. It’s why you have to look carefully at any argument that uses statistics in an odd way, like limiting the sample or the time period. This one stays pretty steady. we have the most guns by a mile and the most gun deaths by 5 miles. Which part is the lie?

      • DaveH

        Could it be, Jeff, that being the wealthiest country in the world, we have in our midst a large supply of very spoiled people who think what belongs to others should be theirs for the taking. That should be an easy concept to grasp given that you are one of them.
        But if that isn’t enough, please explain why Utah, being one of the most pro-gun states in the Union, has 1/3 the murder rate of California, one of the most anti-gun states in the Union?
        Clearly it’s a cultural thing and has nothing to do with the inanimate guns.
        Killers are killers, and thieves are thieves, Jeff. Yes, I’m looking at you.

      • macgyver1948

        DaveH… I see you are “Jeff. Yes, I’m looking at you” when you phrased your comment but I have to ask. How can any of us know why there are more crimes committed in one state than another? Statistics can only give us something to think about and perhaps patterns for that area or subject. But maybe when there is less morals or less or no God, if you believe in God, in a person the more prone that person is to committing crimes and sins. Laws can be just like locks on doors, they keep the moral and law biding people out, not the criminals or the crazies. People have to want to do what is right, care about the laws or not want to be punished by them enough to keep from doing crime. It has so much less to do with where they are.

      • DaveH

        I see that Jeff has joined the ranks of liars like Flashman and Eddie. No wonder he calls me Creepy Bastard. He doesn’t like me holding up the mirror in which he can see his true ugliness.

        Jeff says — “and a gun death rate hundreds of times higher than any other advanced nation”.

        Here’s the truth, which you won’t get from Liberal Progressives like Jeff:
        http://gunowners.org/op0746.htm

      • DaveH

        Here’s an interesting little tidbit:
        Venezuela and Chile share 59th place among 178 countries in Private Gun Ownership.
        Venezuela has a murder rate of 45.1 per 100,000 citizens.
        Chile has a murder rate of 3.2 per 100,000 citizens.
        Venezuela is a mostly Socialist country.
        Chile is a mostly Capitalist country.

  • DaveH

    Wayne says — “Should government be allowed to take away guns from honest, law-abiding homeowners, business owners, and citizens like me?”.
    Here we go again. How many of you haven’t broken one law or another during your lives? It’s almost impossible not to break a law with the gargantuan array of laws on our books. And, short of being a cold-blooded killer, or chronic violent criminal, do those law-breakers no longer have a right to defend themselves? How many people, for instance, are felons because they bought or sold marijuana?
    Read this, please:
    http://gunowners.org/op0368.htm

    • eddie47d

      I actually agree with what you said but not for the same reasons. You always leave out the equation that its Conservatives (Democrats,Republicans and Independents) who vote for or enact draconian laws to keep people in prison. They throw the book at the marijuana smoker but refuse to indict the Wall Street thieves caught red handed committing Insider Trading and stealing millions. The system does stink at times but the “bad guys” aren’t always the real bad guys. Then we have the gun trafficking problems yet the Conservatives focus on the government (F&F) (rightfully so) yet totally ignores the rouge gun dealers in the other parts of the country. Its almost like they are underground heros when they are no more than criminals adding other criminals.

      • DaveH

        Eddie, if you agree with anything I say, then I figure I must be saying something wrong. I can’t think of another regular commenter who is more twisted than you are.

      • eddie47d

        Why? Because I’m not a sheeple like you are with your one tracked mind who believes all the BS spewed around here!

      • JC

        DaveH…I think the twisted little freak actually admires you. ;-)

    • http://wildeyguns.com The Christian American

      How about the last three Presidents that I konw of. They all admitted to being pot smoking felons. Hold them to the law. Take away their right to defend themselves, like Obama wants to do to us.

  • FreedomFighter

    In the 20th Century:
    ■ Governments murdered four times as many civilians as were killed in all the international and domestic wars combined.
    ■ Governments murdered millions more people than were killed by common criminals.

    How could governments kill so many people? The governments had the power – and the people, the victims, were unable to resist. The victims were unarmed.

    http://jpfo.org/filegen-a-m/deathgc.htm

  • DaveH

    Wayne says — “I’m a member of both the NRA (National Rifle Association) and JPFO (Jews for the Preservation of Firearms Ownership). Will I support reasonable gun control? Of course.
    Should we ensure that mentally ill people cannot purchase guns? Of course”.
    That sounds so nice, but the reality is — “Who determines the mental illness?”.
    I, for instance, think Liberal Progressives are mentally ill. I mean, how else can they so blindly rationalize taking other peoples’ property? What else would drive them to ignore economic logic and the experience of History and to embrace Socialism?
    So imagine if I was the shrink who got to decide?

    It’s always so easy after the fact to exercise our hindsight and ask “How could we have let that person get a gun?”. But in reality, those determinations are not so easy. Think about going to the movies, for instance, where the bad guy is well-developed. So we might think “Yay, kill that creep”. But in real life, that badness isn’t so well-exposed, and oftentimes the “bad guy” victim wasn’t really so bad.

    Here are some reasons not to let yourself be lulled into a stupor by the “background check” mentality:
    http://gunowners.org/fs2011b.htm

    • eddie47d

      Your right Dave H for there are several mentally disturbed right wingers who search out these sites so it wouldn’t be hard to find them. Some are so whacked out they are as sneaky and conniving as Hannibal Lector. Matter of fact some are enthralled with torture, blood and guts and the whole nine yards. Some even bath in the glory of guns and think that is the only law they need. Sometimes I think Dave needs to have his “background” checked before he has a fringe moment!

      • DaveH

        Begone, you sick little Troll.

  • Don W

    What a great article and so true. Here in Israel there is a move by the politicians to disarm the general public. It seems that they have forgotten about Germany in the 1930′s. In the end only the Hamas and other terrorists will be armed, oh yes, I forgot, the politicians will be able to hold weapons, surprise, surprise.

    • Vicki

      Please remind the fine people of Israel of this site.

      http://www.jpfo.org

      • Don W

        Hi Vicki, Thank you very much I was not aware of this site. Happy New Year.

  • hipshotpercusion

    It is interesting to note, that more people are beat to death in this country than are killed by firearms. Murder has always been with us. Kain slew his half brother Abel with a rock.That is one of the reasons I and many other people carry weapons.

    “God created man, but, it was Sam Colt who made us equal.”

    “An armed society is a polite society.” Robert Anson Heinlein

    • eddie47d

      The Taliban is well armed and they are not a “polite society”. Sam Colt only made people equally dead! Cain did kill Abel so apparently God gave man the will to kill and didn’t stop it when he had the chance. Maybe we are His pawns and He enjoys watching us kill each other! Is it really free will or does each man desire the ability to control another through violence?

      • Vicki

        eddie47d says:
        “The Taliban is well armed and they are not a “polite society”.”

        Deliberate attempt to confuse. The Taliban are not a society.

        eddie47d: “Sam Colt only made people equally dead!”

        Deliberate libel. No credible evidence that Sam Colt shot anyone let alone murdered them.

        eddie47d: “Cain did kill Abel so apparently God gave man the will to kill and didn’t stop it when he had the chance.”

        So the bible isn’t all myth and story?

        eddie47d: “Maybe we are His pawns and He enjoys watching us kill each other!”

        Or maybe He loves his Creation but has some serious punishment planned for those who take His gift away.

        eddie47d: “Is it really free will or does each man desire the ability to control another through violence?”

        Judging from the ~50-100 million gun owners the answer must be that only a few desire the ability to control another. Some use violence (with or without a gun). Others, like Karolyn hire and pay government agents to do it for her.

  • DaveH

    Wayne says — “But the Newtown tragedy wasn’t a gun problem; it was a mental illness problem”.
    And here is a side of the story that you won’t hear in the MSM:
    http://www.infowars.com/school-shooter-adam-lanza-likely-on-meds-labeled-as-having-personality-disorder/

  • charles

    So how do we propose to create a better mental health care system. Folks can’t afford these services, and mentally unstable people don’t just willingly surrender themselves to state hospitals.
    It takes ppl willing to be that guy who called on his eccentric neighbor or parent or son/daughter. And when the judge/doctor make the call to label someone as mental defective, then we have yet another person permanently attached to the govt teet.

    I see no clear solution to this problem. Either we buckled down and admit there are those among us who NEED help, or we continue to neglect them until the govt takes our freedoms away in an effort to use a dragnet over the problem.

    • tony newbill
      • charles

        Well, we might start by marijuana reform laws and non violent offender prison reform.

        Also, one of the largest contributors to mental health disorder is abuse. A large contributor to this is school age bullying. Let’s start treating school bullies like the criminals they are. We say we’re going to take this seriously, but as soon as the next headline comes up, this issue is quickly forgotten. We have to take a hard-line approach to this, and not yield. It doesn’t do much to lower the mental health problem today, but we’d definitely see results with a decade.

        One more thing we need to do is level the playing field. The idea of supply and demand economics works very well for products, but it becomes a hindrance to the growth of a society when ppl are treated like commodities. The fact is that the fast food worker typically works just as hard or harder than the plastic surgeon. Sure the plastic surgeon invested tens of thousands if not more into his/her education and thus should be paid far greater, but as the disparity between the rich and the poor grows, so will the breakdown of our society. We can either deal with it, or it will deal with us.

      • tony newbill

        Charles I agree and the fact that so many that are on Unemployment are not leading a productive self empowering life because we do not have a Growing economic base is contributing to more abuse in the family and a lack of tax revenues generated by better overall incomes streams and these things together are compounding the problem , and it is a lack of leadership in the policy making chairs of Government that is driving this denigration of society !!!

    • Karolyn

      Having had to deal with a mentally ill loved-one, I can tell you that it is a circus! There are not enough beds or facilites for people who need the help, let alone those who desire help. Insurance companies will only pay for so much for those who manage to find a bed, forcing hospitals to release those who do need more care. Then there’s the craftiness of the mentally ill who do not want to take their medications or do the things they themselves can do to better their condition. Then there’s the reluctance by many to seek alternate therapies, including nutritional. Of course, add to that cuts to mental health funding; and you have the makings of an even worse scenario. Getting someone committed is not easy unless they admit to wanting to harm themselves or others, which many of them will not confess to. It is a horrendous situation to face and is rampant throughout the country and the world. There are no easy answers.

    • eddie47d

      That is why I ignore the likes of Wayne La Pierre who ducks and covers and lays it all the the mental health issue. Each side has their excuses instead of confronting the big picture. Conservatives wince every time health care is brought up and mental health is part of that scenario. They plain and simply will not pay for a better system so who are they trying to fool now! The same people with problems will still be out there 20 years from now. No different than the drug use issue. Treatment can cost $10-20,000 and clean up a person in less than a year. Yet Conservatives vote for tougher incarceration rates so that same drug user spends several years in prison at $30,000 a year. They are not even penny wise but way out there in being pound foolish.

  • ToughGuy1

    Yeah, Wayne Allyn Root, and Wayne LaPierre. Thank you! Emphasize in correctlng the Dem., libs, and the lib media of their outrageous hypocritical, don’t do their research of the right to bear arms! True Americans should read the US Constitution that provides the rights to defend themselves under the 2nd Amendment. Furthermore, about Obama’s control of his free gun zones? Should be no zones! America isn’t like, or should be combative Iraq, and Afghanistan. I’m a gun owner, former US Army, Special Forces – Patriot. Desert Storm Veteran. Proud to serve my country!

    • eddie47d

      Wayne La Pierre has done nothing more than cover his own ass and probably couldn’t even answer a simple question like is the sky blue today. He’s an excuse maker plain and simple! Apparently Tough Guy wants a Taliban nation were they are armed and control the people and the government is scared of its own shadow and can’t do a thing. No different than what the right wingers want for this nation.

      • FreedomFighter

        Its “We the people” not “We in government”

        So at least in your limited
        idiot way you admit “right wingers” are for America as it should be.

        Laus Deo
        Semper Fi

      • DaveH

        Another useless comment from the useless Troll Eddie.

      • Jeff

        CB:

        I didn’t think it was possible, but you’ve gotten even creepier since Christmas. Did Santa leave you cans of spinach or what? Your insults have grown increasingly childish. You don’t even adorn your misanthropic posts with Viennese postcards anymore. Ah, the good old days.

      • phideaux

        Thanks Jeff you have described eddie perfectly.

      • DaveH

        So basically, Jeff, you are saying that the readers are too ignorant to look up your various comments to see that you have little to add to the conversation except Trollish personal attacks?

  • Nobody’s Fool

    In the dark ages there was a problem with too many cats. People were not responsible for their pets, letting them overpopulate and causing a lot of problems. So they had cat roundups and killed millions of cats, almost eradicating them completely. Then suddenly there was a rat problem, and their natural predator was conveniently removed from the environment. This resulted in the Black Plague, bubonic plague spread by rats, and by which millions of people died. Governments still thought it was the cats’ fault, though, and continued their slaughter program for cats.

    The result would be comparable if all the guns are taken away from the populace. Crime would escalate, many more violent deaths would occur, and government would seek to control it all with martial law, oBlamer’s Dream for America.

    When I was in Russia, there were armed guards in every store. It was a little scary. I was required to leave my purse, which contained much that I did not want to lose, in a bin under a counter. Who knows what the attendant might have taken from it while it was being “guarded”. The idea was to ensure that I did not shoplift but the result was insecurity for me and my stuff. I don’t like the idea of having armed guards everywhere. It invites corruption.

    Besides, when I worked at the local high school in the 80s, we had an armed guard who slept in his car at the entrance to the parking lot every single day. Worthless as far as security was concerned.

    • Flashy

      “The result would be comparable if all the guns are taken away from the populace.”

      NF…no one but the extremists are saying take away all guns.

      And the extremists are the ones demanding a police state so they can have their guns to rebel against a police state.

      • FreedomFighter

        Its called the 2nd amendment Flash – not up for your slobbering foolishness to change.

        Laus Deo
        Semper Fi

      • DaveH

        Here goes Flashshill with his favorite new word — Extremist.

        Comparing the desire for the right to bear arms with a police state? Only the Extremist Flashshill could utter such an oxymoron.
        Flashman — Extremely dishonest, Extremely manipulative, and Extremely immoral.

      • Flashy

        Davey boy, still afraid of thinking and offering up solutions eh? Just denigrate. Can’t think things through? Perhaps you should see a therapist, and then be placed on the national Database that the NRA proposes.

        i am disappointed in you…no Mises link to an article that you never read. You’re slipping Sparky …

      • Jeff

        I see C.B. is up and active this fine morning. He must have gotten to kick some homeless people for Christmas. Merry Christmas, C.B.

      • DaveH

        Flashman says — “Davey boy, still afraid of thinking and offering up solutions eh?”.
        I just proved your comment to be nonsense, Flashshill. So if I’m non-thinking, what does that make you, Troll?

      • DaveH

        Tell the readers what you mean by “C.B.”, Jeff.
        Show them that you are the typical adolescent name-calling Liberal Progressive.
        Thanks, though for adding yet another example of Liberal Progressive childishness.

      • Vicki

        Flashy says:
        “Davey boy, still afraid of thinking and offering up solutions eh?”

        Dave and others have thought up and offered several solutions. None are really necessary as the founders ALREADY encoded the solution into the supreme LAW of the land.

        DaveH provded several links above showing the success of the solution and how people changed the solution and the resultant failures.
        Seach above for these comments
        _________________________
        DaveH says:
        December 27, 2012 at 10:59 am

        DaveH says:
        December 27, 2012 at 11:11 am
        _________________________

    • eddie47d

      Great story about the cats and the rats! Yet Nobody”s Fool is fooling herself. If there is Martial Law it will come from the right wing militias who are already actively pursuing that possibility. They want to be the Marshalls controlling that Martial Law. The government can be bothersome yet those Sovereign Citizens seem to be equally dangerous!

      • Vicki

        eddie47d freely admits the founders were correct by writing:
        “If there is Martial Law it will come from the right wing militias who are already actively pursuing that possibility. They want to be the Marshalls controlling that Martial Law. The government can be bothersome yet those Sovereign Citizens seem to be equally dangerous!”

        Thus the founders plan that EVERYMAN be armed is indeed the correct solution.
        Good job Eddie. +1 to your credibility rating. Now get out there and support the right of all of us to keep and bear arms. Even scary looking ones.

      • phideaux

        More spurious prevarication from eddie I see.

      • eddie47d

        Don’t be shy Phideaux please tell us which of those terrorist militias groups do you belong to. If you talk and walk like a duck you must be one of them!

  • http://gillysrooms.blogspot.com Gillysrooms from Australia

    Yeah with all the guns you have in your American society, you dont need the police or the army to defend yourselves. I think you could save $trillions if some of your citizens took it in turns to act as community police to maintain law and order, so saving enough money in no time to pay out your national debt. I think you should suggest this idea to Congressman John Boehner and to your President to help solve your taxing problems with the fiscal cliff.

    • FreedomFighter

      The guns are to defend against a tyranical government forming over us here in the USA…like obummers regime…

      Something you as an Aussie are now experianceing – please goto a public place and say a few things bad — then pay the million in fines.

      Laus Deo
      Semper Fi

      • http://gillysrooms.blogspot.com Gillysrooms from Australia

        Freedom Fighter, we usually see crime gangs killing each other in Sydney and the public are just collateral damage if they are in the way at the time. but most are just shooting each other over business dealing areas, so I would not count them in a true crime rate statistics. Its just the survival of the fittest in that type of business…which is mainly due to past misdeeds of a corrupt police force in that New South Wales State coming back to bite them. A failure in government, corrupt politicians on the take and the stupid laws they pass from time to time.

        But the majority of the puiblic feel safer without so many guns in the community. Mind you many farmers still have hunting rifles and belong to sporting shooters gun clubs and we dont worry about farmers using rifles to kill vermin, rubbits, foxes etc of which there would be millions more if they could not be shot at. The rabbits are breeding again this year and rifles can be very handy if the virus does not succeeed in wiping them out fast enough.

        The problem as I see it is the too easy availability of guns by hot headed people who act too quickly usually over a minor matter before thinking and cooling down . The other problem is a lack of diplomacy in your community when dealing with the public or drug affected users who become easily paranoid if treated in an insensative manner. EGO is a big problem in the male species of the human race and together with guns make a volitile mix often leading to uneccessary kiilings of innocent people.

      • DaveH

        Gilly says — “But the majority of the puiblic feel safer without so many guns in the community”.
        The “feel safer” part is the key phrase. The reality is that they aren’t any safer.

    • eddie47d

      There is also tyranny coming from right wing militia groups Freedom Fighter or are you one of their members? I suppose their victims are no more than collateral damage to those extreme “freedom fighters”?

      • FreedomFighter

        If fighting for the American constitution, liberty, freedom and my god given rights is extreme…

        so am I.

        Laus Deo
        Semper Fi

      • DaveH

        Tyranny from right wing militia groups? What are you talking about, Eddie? Do you have any evidence at all to back up such a nonsensical claim?

      • tony newbill

        Eddie47d you must then agree that Obama and the Congress , all but 7 of them , support this Militia that must be made up of both sides of the Parties that Voted for the NDAA and Obama signed into Law that concedes your tyranny claim right ???

      • eddie47d

        I have brought that up numerous times Dave H sorry you had all those days off! Trust me you don’t want the embarrasment!

      • JC

        eddie47d says:
        December 27, 2012 at 1:34 pm
        I have brought that up numerous times Dave H sorry you had all those days off! Trust me you don’t want the embarrasment!
        ___________________________________________________________________

        In other words, no DaveH…he doesn’t have anything to back up…anything.
        But he would have made a good “Brit” in 1774 now wouldn’t he? LOL

      • Vicki

        eddie47d says:
        “I have brought that up numerous times…”

        Indeed eddie has brought up his proofs by bald assertion many times. Some of them right here in this thread.

      • eddie47d

        Don’t worry Vickie and Dave I’ll make of point of that information more often . So when I do don’t wonder why I am posting it just remember you asked for it!

    • Capitalist at Birth

      Keep your ideas to yourself, and stay in Australia. You will not be welcome here.

      • Jeff

        So your gun makes you the self-appointed Border Vigilante, too? It must be quite a gun. Could we see it?

      • Vicki

        Jeff. You wouldn’t like it. It’s scary.

      • http://gillysrooms.blogspot.com Gillysrooms from Australia

        Your not much of a Capitalist if you dont like to seek out new ideas from anywhere which might improve your lifestyles or for new inventions and your turning away any new ideas which work in Australia. Obviously your more of a communist than a capitalist …who likes to keep their population capitives in their own insular little world without any progress…lol.
        I live in a free society in Australia and Bob Livingston allows me thankfully to express my opinions in this forum. We should help each other out even if we dont always agree but we should be able to learn from each others mistakes without getting all upset because new ideas might influence others into a different direction than your ideas would let them do. Are you really trying to achieve what your governments have tried to do to you ie control and censor what your citizens can see or do?

      • Karolyn

        Well put, Gilly!

  • Flashy

    Mr. Root: Guns save lives eh? And the public is against gun control eh? And Mitt romeny is a lock to win the Nov. 2012 election.

    You cite the Rasmussen Poll…a well known conservative poll which tends to skew towards inaccuracy towards the conservative views. Try the Pew Poll…
    — 49 percent of respondents agreed with the view that it’s more important to control gun ownership than it is to protect the right of Americans to own guns.
    — 42 percent said the right of Americans to own guns is more important than gun control.

    Or how about the ABC/Wall Street Journal poll, released Monday, which found that a majority of Americans (54%) support stricter gun control laws, while 43% are opposed.
    And on and on. Key words to note Mr. Root…’gun control”. As stated by many over and over, only the extremists are screaming about banning guns. Extremists on both sides.

    But first, let’s talk about your other “stretchers’.

    “Take the debt crisis: Obama wants to raise taxes, so we lose our economic freedom, and government grows bigger… while we add more debt to solve a debt crisis.” {Wayne, do you write these staring into the sun too long sitting by your pool? President Obama has proposed raising taxes on the wealthy…to the tune of someone making $500,000 gross net pays a whopping $684 a month more…and keeping taxes lowered on the 98% of individuals and small businesses. He also has proposed spending cuts to the tune of almost $500 billion. Make more money, spend less…seems to be a sound reasonable method to get budget control to those sane reasonable people. Fact is, it’s what the People said they wanted as a policy towards budget control. By a mandate in re-electing President Obama. }

    “Take 9/11 — Bush spent billions on the formation of Homeland Security, hundreds of thousands of expensive new government employees, started two wars, and took many of our civil rights away.” {Yep. And this is not President Obama’s to be blamed for. He has to deal with it though, and the extremists on the Right scream to avoid responsibility and blame this President and then yell that they should not have to help pay for what they supported. Avoidance of responsibility and demanding others pay for their luxuries}

    Take global warming — Obama wants to tax us to death, double our electric bills, take away our freedoms, and put government in charge of business. {Ummmm…last I heard, the big fight is that the extremist backed GOP members want to raise taxes on all rather than have 1% see a small increase in their tax burden…an increase which only begins to pay for what they receive in the Welfare for the wealthy programs. As to double electricity bills…where does that come from? The fact that outdated coal fired plants have to modernize to meet current air standrards…a modernization that doesn’t make economic sense because natural gas is so abundant, cleaner, and cheaper? That coal is fast becoming uneconomical for electrical generation as wind, solar, natural gas come online and are more profitable? I’m guessing you are referring to coal when you speak of electrical rates going up. Those generation companies utilizing other means to generate aren’t raising prices. Fact is, the big battle within the regulatory agencies concerns the use of the lines. Wind and solar being added to the grid has created a problem of capacity.

    Thus…President Obama’s calls for infrastructure needing to be built and expanded. Resulting in LOWER costs to business and the consumer. BTW…you failed (deliberately) to mention the latest trend of self generation by business and foresighted homeowners. Going off the grid has become economical with the alternative energy options now available. }

    “Take the health care crisis — Obama passed Obamacare to raise our taxes, grow government, unionize healthcare workers, and put government in charge of our health .” {And space aliens are controlling us via the mind beams broadcast from outer space. }

    “The same story holds true with the gun control issue spurred by the tragic Newtown school shooting. “ {I hope so. Reasonable regulation of guns. No one but extremists are saying banning guns. Extremists from both sides..and they concentrate on the other extremists on the other end of the spectrum in hyping the issues and creating fear. Bad guys have guns. Where are they getting these guns/ Why…they’re buying them because its so frippin’ easy, there are so many, and they are cheap ! Ever hear of a gun totin’ robber who had money?

    So the reasonable control options being floated are reduce the capacity of magazines to a sane 10 shot capacity. If you’re a hunter, and need more than that…you have no reason being in the field. If you’re defending yourself, and need more than 10 shots in one magazine…hate ta tell ya, but I’d be thinking you wouldn’t be needing much more with those odds against you anyhows. I have yet to hear anyone say any reason why more than a 10 shot max capacity is needed.

    Another is to go after the suppliers of guns to the bad guys. Registering each sale. Not a infringement of any Right. It’s not gun registration. And allows any gun used in the commission of a crime to be backtracked to the suppliers. What is wrong with that?

    Banning the future manufacturing and sale of semi auto assault rifles. Don’t go giving me the line that taking away a bayonet holder makes it not an assault rifle…everyone knows what one is and it ain’t a hunting rifle. It’s an offensive weapon which purpose is to kill. Keep the ones in private collections…and…for you market gurus, as you claim time and again, supply and demand will raise the prices of these weapons above that of the common gun criminal.

    Mental health registration? Armed police in schools and every corner? Let everyone pack a gun? Ya really want a police state?????? Is not a national registration, police in every building and every aspect of life, and police treating everyone armed and dangerous building even more of a wall between them and the citizenry…is that not a police state?

    Mr. Root…when you see your therapist, you really want to be on a national register? You think that is reasonable?

    But wait…this article is from the guy who twice predicted Romney to take the WH. Despite every sign to the contrary. I guess these types of articles are what to expect.

    • FreedomFighter

      Again I will tell you Flash, you are full of it to your gills, like any other progressive toady.

      Death by “Gun Control”

      by Aaron Zelman and Richard W. Stevens

      http://jpfo.org/filegen-a-m/deathgc.htm

      Obama won by extreme voter fraud, the info is all there to prove it but nobody wants to.

      Laus Deo
      Semper Fi

    • http://gillysrooms.blogspot.com Gillysrooms from Australia

      Spot on Flashy, but read my suggestions below…will soon see who wants to become police officer to save lives using their guns to protect the community eh..lol

      • FreedomFighter

        Sad for you Austrailians, you have already been disarmed by the progressives – your crime rate is exploding and many are demanding the right to bear arms back…

        Since your government has disarmed you, how responsive are they? Do you rule government or do they rule you…seen them fines for talking bad about gov?

        I for one dont want that BS here in the USA

      • Flashy

        FF…..just so you know…when you refer to ‘crime rate exploding” in Australia…you aren’t exactly being accurate. Actually, you’re perpetuating myth.

        i have read that statement about Australia on this Board so often, I brushed it off as just another ‘fact” which wasn’t a ‘fact” at all, but made up. just another typical “Tea Party lie. Seems almost all data that originates with the extremists of the Right are made up. I work very closely with folks Down Under, my work hours here are timed to Aussie time (Sydney). I happened to mention this to one of my cohorts…he said ” you Yanks have a lot of problems with truth eh?”

        So I went and researched it a tad.

        Here’s the facts…

        http://www.snopes.com/crime/statistics/ausguns.asp

      • JC

        So I went and researched it a tad.

        Here’s the facts…
        ______________________________________________________________________

        And naturally you used a “left wing” site owned by none other than the king lefty,
        George Soros…to verify…nothing.

      • JC

        Nationwide Australian homicide statistics show that murder has increased 3.2 per cent since the guns were confiscated. However, in the state of Victoria, homicides committed with firearms are up a staggering 300 per cent! Once again, this was not supposed to happen, if you believe the Leftist rhetoric being espoused in the Media, and by self-appointed spokesmen of the Left.

        Nationwide, assaults are up 8.6 per cent while robberies using guns is up a whopping 44 per cent! It seems that criminals have gotten more assertive and confident since the law-abiding citizenry has been forced to give up their weapons. Now, what was that popular bumper sticker here in America? “When guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns.” This New World Order “experiment” in Australia has validated this sentiment 1000 per cent.

        http://www.cuttingedge.org/News/n1329.cfm

      • JC

        Amid the push for more gun control in the wake of the Conn. shooting, it’s important to remember the lesson gun control laws have taught us in other countries — namely, that less guns lead to more crime.
        We saw this clearly in Australia when Aussies were disarmed by de jure measures in 1997.
        To accomplish this, the Australian government sponsored a $500 million buyback on all privately owned firearms that led to a ban. Australian politicians who supported the move “promised a lower crime rate once the ban was in place.”
        Did lower crime result? No. Instead armed robberies rose significantly and home invasions rose as well.
        Moreover, assaults involving guns rose more than a 25% and murders with a gun rose nearly 20%.

        http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2012/12/15/The-Aussie-Lesson-Less-Guns-More-Crime

      • BR549

        JC wrote: “…. namely, that less guns lead to more crime.”

        Until such time that we evolve enough as a species and get beyond our spiritual immaturity, we are stuck in that juvenile rut of still wanting and needing to be irresponsible, yet knowing that the only way we can deal with our growth is to embrace it head on. We can’t run and hide from our past, but we can certainly use that past to eventually grow beyond our feeling any need to defend ourselves from others.

        The problem is that while gun owners realize the current truth, the anti-gun people are in either total denial of why people are feeling a need to defend themselves, or worse, like an 8 year old who saw his daddy start the car with the keys a few times, thinks he’s figured out life works and has matured enough to take the car for a ride by himself.

      • Jeff

        The problem with your argument is we have other countries to use for comparisons. Are our crime rates lower than Western Europe’s? I think not. By your reasoning, England, France, and Germany should have crime rates triple ours. I don’t believe they do, but they do have gun death rates that are microscopic compared to ours.

        And “crime” is a broad term – ranging from shoplifting a $2 item to armed robbery, mayhem, robbery, and murder. What if the statistics showed more guns lead to a drop in petty crimes but a rise in homicides? Would the “drop” in crime be worth it? Maybe crime statistics should be weighted like a hitter’s slugging percentage.

      • BR549

        Jeff wrote: “The problem with your argument is we have other countries to use for comparisons.”

        And those comparisons don’t necessarily work. Different styles of governance, their people’s sense of freedom and equality, of connectedness; there are so many factors to consider.

        Our crime rate is soaring because our own elected officials have allowed the corrupt banking families to overtake our country and during that time have been lying to the public. As a result, there has been this “undercurrent” of the public knowing something was wrong, while the politicians keep lying, one, about the problems even existing, and two, about what measures are being taken to squash a problem, and three, that the tax money they claimed to be using to combat a problem was actually going toward that problem.

        Many people would just sigh and say, “Oh, that’s life, people will be people, get over it,” but when you flip the argument upside down and imagine what it would be like if politicians actually volunteered for service because they truly believed they had done well in life and that it was time to put something back into the society that helped nurture them, that would be a different mindset. Imagine if politicians showed up for work and actually agreed on ways to make our country and other countries more efficient and more representative of the people they “claim” to represent. Without the pervasive angst that has become the dysfunctional undercurrent within our own governing body, I would bet that the collective mindset within the population would be one of service rather than one of violation.

        It would be different if those politicians actually tried to understand, not that Christianity should predominate, but that God was still that necessary parent during our spiritually formative growth, and until man matures enough spiritually, he must adhere to a set of guidelines that come from higher than that concocted by his own ego.

        The ego will tell you anything you want to hear. It will rationalize every evil intention and justify ever war. And it will certainly pave the way for the abuses we have seen by our officials as they increasingly pad their own nests and polish their lapel pins, while completely ignoring the real problems within the population they convinced they had the professional acumen to socially manage..

        The problem with “my argument”, at least for you, it seems, is people being able to wrap their brain around it. For the same reason you couldn’t is the same reason the legislature and other officials have given up trying, because they can’t seem to find a way around the corruption. So, they cave in. THAT was why God (and I’m not getting religious here) was mentioned so much during the founding documents. It had NOTHING to do with religion, but it had EVERYTHING to do with recognizing that we get our marching orders from a power higher than that of other men.

        It’s an argument of spiritual proportions that has plagued man ever since he claimed to be conscious enough to know God. It’s an argument where the ego convinces weak-minded men that they have outgrown their desire to slaughter each other but that it’s OK for the state to slaughter them instead.

        As long as man is still wrestling with that pretense of maturity, individuals will continue to need to protect themselves from those others who haven’t gotten the message yet, but that message won’t filter down to those others until the government itself starts practicing what it preaches.

      • JC

        Australia Bans Guns, Crime Rate Increases | Gun Control Fail

        http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=xh4oHK8Dgck#!

      • JC

        From Liberty Australia:

        Professor Joyce Lee Malcolm’s erudite study has changed my view of gun control. Before reading her book, I was inclined to see control in this way: Leaving aside questions about individual rights, there is an obvious argument that supports allowing people to own firearms. If criminals know that their victims may be armed, they are less likely to attack: guns deter violent crime. The modern state refuses to acknowledge this elementary truth. If people have guns, this allows them to resist the state, and under no circumstances can this be permitted. The need to secure the state outweighs the desire to halt crime.

        http://www.la.org.au/opinion/161212/disarmed-and-wholly-dependent

      • JC

        I used to go hunting with my mother when I was a child. By the time I was fourteen I owned and used my own semiautomatic .22 Ruger for culling rabbits and kangaroos. Our weapons were tools. Now the guns we own must be registered as sporting equipment through thorough licensing procedures that keep strict tabs on shooters and make it very hard to own firearms in this country. The result being that only the terrorists (yes, these home invaders are the only terrorists that we have to deal with) invading our homes have access to guns for protection. Those of us who abide by the laws must keep our weapons locked up and out of sight. God help us if we ever use our weapons to defend ourselves as the law has made it clear that we are to lie down like dogs and let crime happen to us rather than inflict injury on an intruder or attacker.

        In Australia we do not have the peace of mind that comes with the necessity of resistance when attacked in our homes and no one was shocked more than me when in 1997Howard decided to diminish this country’s security by disarming innocent citizens intimating responsible persons, like myself and most gun owners, are potential mass murderers.

        http://members.iinet.net.au/~nedwood/guns.html

        Should I keep going Flashy, or would you just rather stick to your one, single, left wing, source of “opinion”?

      • JC

        Jeff says:
        December 30, 2012 at 9:19 pm
        The problem with your argument is we have other countries to use for comparisons. Are our crime rates lower than Western Europe’s? I think not. By your reasoning, England, France, and Germany should have crime rates triple ours. I don’t believe they do, but they do have gun death rates that are microscopic compared to ours.
        _____________________________________________________________________

        I see…”you think” and “you don’t believe”…right…blah blah blah…
        Post some facts. What is the rate of rape and home invasion?
        What is the murder rate with or without guns?
        How many people could have stopped a crime committed with a knife, a broken bottle or just plain brute strength against a weaker or older person if they’d had a .38?

        “I think” you’re full of S#!t and I “don’t believe” it will ever stop.

    • nc

      Flashy, how dare you trash the WINGNUT TRILOGY! Old Testament, New Testament and Rasmussen Polls !!!

      • tony newbill

        Flashy , Eddie and NC will this Armed Invasion of Illegals increase with the disarming of US Citizens ???
        Faced with gun-toting drug smugglers, Arizona ranchers demand security at the border.

        http://dailynightly.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/12/26/16047580-faced-with-gun-toting-drug-smugglers-arizona-ranchers-demand-security-at-the-border?lite

      • eddie47d

        Yes Tony those stories pop up on the news every once in awhile. With a 2,000 mile border its bound to happen. Every once in awhile a plane crashes into another or a ship collides into another even with modern technology. It other words you can’t stop each and every incident from happening. Now that the Border Patrol knows about this newest route I’m sure they will act upon it. Do the farmers and ranchers along the border have a right to defend themselves,absolutely! With guns even! Few will argue that a person has a right to defend family and property so enough of your paranoia talk about “disarming” these citizens. You sure like to spice up your stories (comments) with terms like “invasion” so no wonder you are always so confused.

      • tony newbill

        heres a area that is seeing 60-70 thousand a year of Illegals Invading the USA , and God knows what they are packing into this Country so disarming the US citizenry is really the right thing to do Eddie47d ?? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ROF75vP8DQc

      • tony newbill

        Eddie47d heres a sign that just Pops up on the Border of the USA telling you to Lay down your Guns and Move away from the Public Land that you are taxed for so that Crimes against humanity can take place , so be proud of the leadership , shut up and pay your higher taxes because there are entitlements that need taken care of like these !!!!! http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=arizona+border+danger+zone&id=1EB41F3AB9ADD721319C0D2E99A4881F9915BB78&FORM=IQFRBA#view=detail&id=E3D7AFC7C43EFCC08CBAB272B4C059ADEBDA2306&selectedIndex=4

      • Karolyn

        Tony – Please keep informed. There has been a drop in illegal immigration, especially over the past few years with the weakened economy.
        http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/article/Number-of-immigrant-drophouses-in-Phoenix-way-down-4131535.php

      • tony newbill

        Karolyn you are right , but instead of just those seeking financial improvement to their lives we have a NEW kind of Illegal Invading our USA and they don’t care about the Economy they have YOU in their sites ….. And Karolyn your 1.5 Billion dollars that Obama is sending to these Muslim Brotherhood affiliates is where their Money comes from to pay for their Human smuggling of themselves and whatever else they are bring into the Country like the Biological weapons they can’t seem to find in Syria , ha ha ha ha , Ha ha ha tax dollars at work to Undermine your Safety , hang on this is just getting started … http://azcapitoltimes.com/news/2012/03/23/hezbollah-terror-threat-on-u-s-mexico-border-is-real/

      • DaveH

        Karolyn is correct. Instead of all the gnashing of teeth about illegals coming from the NeoConservative Progressives, the Liberal Progressives have found the simple solution to the illegal immigration problem — Trash our economy so they have no reason to come here.

      • eddie47d

        Tony is going off in his typical tangent and is only baiting us. Reminds me of someone else I know!

      • Vicki

        Eddie47d writes:
        “Few will argue that a person has a right to defend family and property so enough of your paranoia talk about “disarming” these citizens.”

        Yet eddie is more then happy to side with any government plan for “common sense” gun laws.

      • eddie47d

        Your semi-automatic gun loving free for all hasn’t done much for America’s credibility either Vickie!

    • DaveH

      Wow, Flashshill and his Boiler Room buddies are in full bloom today.

      • DaveH

        PL must be really waking up a lot of people for Flashshill and his buddies to concentrate so much attention on us. That’s good news.

    • DaveH

      Why do you and your multiple personalities waste so much time with such a long boring equivocal comment, Flashshill, when you have no credibility on this board?
      Given that you have no credibility, the least you can do is give us some references to back yourself up. And I’m not talking about some vague reference to some past magazine article which nobody will bother looking up.

      • Vicki

        And when we have tried we find nothing there.

    • Joe H

      flashy,
      Hate to burst your little love fest for Bam Bam, but you need to dig a little deeper. Those are cuts to FUTURE spending not to the amount that is being spent now. The budget actually grows by leaps and bounds under his plan!

  • http://www.davidlerickson.com David

    This whole argument is stupid and larded with disinformation. The fact is, liberals don’t want to take your guns away. That’s just pseudo-conservative rhetoric to prevent common sense gun regulations.

    What the majority of Americans want (including 74% of NRA members) is sensible gun regulations, such as closing the unregulated secondary gun market, banning large clips, military assault weapons and armor piercing bullets. Also, large purchases of ammo must be reported.

    And yes, the mental health issue must be addressed as well. In the 70′s badly run, draconian care centers were closed, but instead of funding and managing better centers, the mentally ill were released into the general public. It all came down to money. We are seeing the repercussion of that decision today.

    • FreedomFighter

      That is the biggest load of Bravo Sierra…The progressives have stated repeatedly they want to take all guns from the population … see UN documentation…

      Laus Deo
      Semper Fi

      • eddie47d

        The biggest “load” I see is the NRA allowing just about anyone for any reason to carry in any place they want to. The NRA or GOA refuse to admit there are legal gun owners who never should be near any weapon. Yet they allow them to carry and even purchase more. Ask those 20 dead kids or their parents if the laws aren’t on their side. The pro gun laws allowed Mrs Lanza to have as many weapons as she liked and all legal. The Aurora shooter was nice and legal and had many venues in which to choose from to buy his arsenal. Oh yes those wonderful pro gun laws that you all scream about and say they don’t exist! You can brag all day about the “lives saved” with a gun but you have piles of excuses for those who die at the hands of a gun. You want these continual incidents to go away as fast as possible so you can keep stoking your AR-15 as your best friend. Because as we all know “guns don’t kill people people kill people”. What a joke for the only purpose of a weapon is to kill people or for hunting. You certainly don’t buy it for a nick knack or a paper weight! The NRA is no longer credible or at least not honest about any gun related issue and GOA is far too extreme in how they provoke.

      • http://www.boblivingstonletter.com/ Bob Livingston

        Dear eddie47d,

        You write: “What a joke for the only purpose of a weapon is to kill people or for hunting.” That is untrue. Shooting targets is an enjoyable pastime. If you have never shot, I wouldn’t expect you to understand. But it is quite easy to devote several hours to shooting for the mere enjoyment of hitting what you aim at and doing it consistently. Whether it’s clay pigeons or aluminum cans or paper targets, shooting is enjoyable. Some people enjoy golf, some enjoy hiking in the woods, some enjoy sitting on their butts on a porch swing. I and thousands like me enjoy shooting. So, as usual, you are commenting on that which you do not understand.

        Best wishes,
        Bob

      • tony newbill

        Eddie47d , So if personal weapons are not a excellent deterrent on a local level against those in society that want to take anothers Liberties then why is it that we need Nukes to act as a deterrent against International infringers who seek to take your liberties ?

      • Louis Lemieux

        What Bob says here is true, shooting targets is an enjoyable pastime. Maybe guns like assault riffle, though, when not in use should remain locked up where people go target shooting.

        There certainly is a problem when guns end up in the hands of individuals who are mentally impaired; but, we also have another problem. The less trust people have of each other in a society, the more they feel the need to protect themselves and consequently the more fatalities will occur. Let’s all work for a better society and the best way to start is to better our self: not to support hatred and violence through words or actions.

      • momo

        eddie47d says: ” What a joke for the only purpose of a weapon is to kill people or for hunting.”

        With that logic there should be more dead people with all the firearms in the U.S. Never heard of going to the range and target shooting eddie? Or are you too busy signing petitions?

      • Jeff

        Does any reasonably advanced country on Earth have a gun death rate even remotely close to ours? I know it’s sacrilege because we are the beginning and the end of all that’s good, but sometimes we might look at something that works better in other countries and emulate it.

      • eddie47d

        MOMO: My shooting days are over 1964-1969. Yes there was plenty of targets also so take your sarcasm and it stick up your …..!

      • JeffH

        Jeff with the Nazi fetish says “I know it’s sacrilege because we are the beginning and the end of all that’s good, but sometimes we might look at something that works better in other countries and emulate it.”

        Now this is the type of common sense we all should expect from a progressive who believes in the failed Keynesian Model of economics.

      • JC

        eddie47d says:
        December 27, 2012 at 1:29 pm
        MOMO: My shooting days are over 1964-1969. Yes there was plenty of targets also so take your sarcasm and it stick up your …..!
        ______________________________________________________________
        Sounds like Viet Nam era…I take it you were fighting for North Viet Nam?
        What with you being a communist and all….

      • Joe H

        FreedomFighter,
        Just to worry the gun banners here, I just entered NAGR’s drawing for a certificate good for 600 rounds of ammo for ANY weapon. Made a decent donation as well!!!

    • cawmun cents

      Government regulating housing=people losing their houses.
      Government regulating commerce=people losing jobs.
      Government regulating firearms=?
      Do the math you moron…..
      But what do I know?
      Apparently very little……..
      Cheers!
      -CC.

      • JC

        CC this from Czarina Feinstein’s own web site.
        It’s part of what is to be put before Senate:

        Bans the sale, transfer, importation, or manufacturing of:
        120 specifically-named firearms

        Certain other semiautomatic rifles, handguns, shotguns that can accept a detachable magazine and have one military characteristic

        Semiautomatic rifles and handguns with a fixed magazine that can accept more than 10 rounds

        Strengthens the 1994 Assault Weapons Ban and various state bans by:
        Moving from a 2-characteristic test to a 1-characteristic test

        Eliminating the easy-to-remove bayonet mounts and flash suppressors from the characteristics test

        Banning firearms with “thumbhole stocks” and “bullet buttons” to address attempts to “work around” prior bans

        Bans large-capacity ammunition feeding devices capable of accepting more than 10 rounds.

        Protects legitimate hunters and the rights of existing gun owners by:
        Grandfathering weapons legally possessed on the date of enactment

        Exempting over 900 specifically-named weapons used for hunting or sporting purposes and
        Exempting antique, manually-operated, and permanently disabled weapons

        Requires that grandfathered weapons be registered under the National Firearms Act, to include:
        Background check of owner and any transferee;
        Type and serial number of the firearm;
        Positive identification, including photograph and fingerprint;
        Certification from local law enforcement of identity and that possession would not violate State or local law; and
        Dedicated funding for ATF to implement registration

        Read more: http://freedomoutpost.com/2012/12/senate-

        So “That’s ” how we stop the crazies, by putting every single American at risk…
        And Hitler himself is applauding from the grave…after all “registration” was how he disarmed Germany.

        This isn’t about public safety…it’s about control and disarmament.

    • DaveH

      David says — “What the majority of Americans want (including 74% of NRA members) is sensible gun regulations, such as closing the unregulated secondary gun market, banning large clips, military assault weapons and armor piercing bullets”.
      Banning large clips is sensible?
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XXVNypPUGto

      • DaveH

        The Poll that David cites was conducted by Frank Luntz for the Mayors Against Illegal Guns.
        How’s that for unbiased?
        I haven’t been able to locate the actual survey questions yet, but I’ll keep looking.
        At any rate, something like 75% of people think the Rich don’t pay their fair share and we Freedom Lovers know how bogus that is. That’s what we’re here for — to wake up those people to reality. Nobody said it was going to be easy to deprogram the Propagandized lemmings.

    • JC

      David says:
      December 27, 2012 at 8:21 am
      This whole argument is stupid and larded with disinformation. The fact is, liberals don’t want to take your guns away. That’s just pseudo-conservative rhetoric to prevent common sense gun regulations.
      _______________________________________________________________________

      You lost me at “common sense gun regulations”…what the hell are those?

      A little history lesson for you.
      “The right of the people to keep and bear arms shall NOT BE INFRINGED.”

      Have a nice day.

      • Jeff

        So you choose to just ignore the first clause of the 2nd amendment? Is it too inconvenient?

      • DaveH

        The Second Amendment:
        “A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed”.

        It doesn’t matter what the first part of the sentence says. The second part speaks for itself.
        A militia is an army of the people, Not an army of the Government.
        What part of a “free state” do you not understand, Jeff?

        For those who might encounter Liberal Progressive misinformers like Jeff:
        http://gunowners.org/op0848.htm

        I know, Jeff, I’m a “Creepy Bastard”. I can’t even imagine what you’d be calling me if the shoe was on the other foot and I was the one trying to take something from you.

      • JC

        Jeff says:
        December 27, 2012 at 4:22 pm
        So you choose to just ignore the first clause of the 2nd amendment? Is it too inconvenient?
        __________________________________________________________
        Um…No…I just kept it simple for you. because you’re a Liberal, right?
        Wouldn’t want you to have to digest more than you can handle….

      • JC

        In “A View of the Constitution,” which colleague Brian Puckett writes “was the standard constitutional law text at Harvard until 1845 and at Dartmouth until 1860,” William Rawle, “a contemporary of the Founders and the man to whom George Washington offered an appointment as the first U.S. Attorney General,” offered a vastly different opinion.
        “No clause in the Constitution could by any rule of construction be conceived to give to congress a power to disarm the people,” Rawle wrote in Chapter X, “OF THE RESTRICTIONS ON THE POWERS OF CONGRESS — AND ON THE EXECUTIVE AND JUDICIAL AUTHORITIES — RESTRICTIONS ON THE POWERS OF STATES AND SECURITY TO THE RIGHTS OF INDIVIDUALS.”
        “Such a flagitious attempt could only be made under some general pretence by a state legislature,” Rawle continued. “But if in any blind pursuit of inordinate power, either should attempt it, this amendment may be appealed to as a restraint on both.”

        Read more: http://freedomoutpost.com/2012/07/what-will-owners-of-ak-47s-do-if-they-are-outlawed/comment-page-1/#comments#ixzz2GaRgFUgO

  • Louis Lemieux

    I taught most conservative republicans believed in Jesus: “For all who take the sword will perish by the sword.“

    • Capitalist at Birth

      You and your godless brethren continually take quotes fro Jesus out of context and misquote him all the time. Were you there? Where did you study about Jesus? How many books on Religion have you read? Until you can answer those questions honestly, quit taking the Lord’s name in vain.

    • Capitalist at Birth

      Jesus did not espouse leaving yourself and your loved ones defenseless. That is a big lie that you Communists continually try to use to convince anyone who will listen to lay down their self defense and become salves.

    • Louis Lemieux

      “And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.” (Matthew 10:28 KJV)

  • Tom Cook

    Mr. Root, you are what I would expect of any Jew–someone who believes in carefully guarding personal freedom since it seems Jews have been everyone’s target since the days of Christ. It slays me that American Jews are so benighted that they are liberal and support the slime that calls itself obama. After my tour as a ground FAC in 1969, in a war I was sent to fight and then reviled for going, I was told by my superiors that I needed to cool it–my body count was too high. I only mention this because I am no shrinking violet; I have supported JPFO for years. They have my complete respect. I detest violence so much that I have taken steps to understand how to avoid and overcome it: I belong to Front Sight and take all of my family members for training. I have taken my wife and daughter to Tim Larkin’s live TFT training. What liberals don’t acknowledge since their mental function is as you have said–reversed–is that there are bad people and we must defend against them, and not be creating “killing zones” such as schools. Cannot anyone with eyes and even a 75 IQ realize that the shooters choose just such places? Liberals believe that police will protect them while police increasingly murder citizens. I may remember incorrectly, but from my childhood I recall that God helps those who…

    • nc

      Tom. let me finish your sentence! “god?” helps those who do not attend Newtown schools! Because he sure didn’t help those kids! They died! Was “god?” on break or simply not a factor in the real world of that gun toting human?? “god?” sure kills a lot of innocent children to get adults attention!! 20 funerals is a “TEACHING MOMENT’????
      LIBERALS TAKE GOD OUT OF SCHOOLS! IT APPEARS TO ME “GOD?” PLAYED HOOKEY!!

      • tony newbill

        They needed Security like President Obama has at his kinds schools !!!!!

      • Larry K.

        why are you blaming GOD? GOD didn’t kill anyone but if you think he did i feel sorry for you. GOD does not hurt people either, but people hurt each other by what they say and do, Sometimes they even kill. there is evil among us and that is the Devil’s doing, not GOD’S.

      • tony newbill

        Larry K I agree !!!!!!!
        I think what the idea of faith is suppose to be about is faith to do the right things in life is what believing in Gods word is about , not looking to God to be the Provider of your lifes outcomes !!! What would be the reason for any person to be here if God was to provide us all with our hopes and dreams ?
        And what would be the reason for any Government to Provide you with your lifes needs if you become Dependent on them thinking that its their responsibility to provide you with your needs too ???

      • Paul Wells

        nc, you are definitely off your meds. Get back on them immediately, or call for some mental health care professionals…you really need them!

      • Capitalist at Birth

        God helps those who help them selves is the rest of the sentence. GET IT?

      • S.C.Murf

        nc God is a perfect spirit, He in His perfection cannot look on earth because of it’s sin’s. He wasn’t there that day because of the sin and evil that was. satan rules this earth, and by the sounds of your ranting, rules YOU also. Don’t worry I know that you cannot comprehend this but HE will make you very aware one of these days and I will stand as witness against you. Enjoy what little TIME you have left for you will not enjoy the day of judgement.

        up the hill
        airborne

      • Vicki

        Larry K. says:
        “…. but people hurt each other by what they say and do, ….”

        Careful with the “say” part of that. Progressives have (mis)used that thought to create “Politically Correct Speech” laws.

      • Kate8

        First the progs work overtime throwing God out of everything, especially schools…making certain that no one can so much as speak of Him without dire consequences….

        And then they are the first to blame Him when something happens.

    • eddie47d

      Tom Cook “detests violence” but brags about killing so many then brings God into the equation. Nothing like being all over the page! Oh yes those gun free zones it has to be a Liberal thing. LOL! We’ve had two shootouts at a biker bar in Colorado Springs last year or that one in Louisiana that sent dozens to the hospital. So much for killings only take place in gun free zones. Oh yes lets arm more bikers and make America safer! What about that dude in Newport Beach CA who went to a Mall last Saturday (didn’t go into the Mall) Instead fired off 50 rounds in the parking lot and luckily only injured a mother and her child. I guess now we’ll have to have several police patrolling the parking lots since no concealed weapons permit holder came to the rescue. You all say your going to take charge of things and put an end to these crazy shootings. Oh well that guy in the parking lot had an American right to have that “assault” weapon in his possession! That is all that matters.

      • tony newbill

        Eddie47d , if the US citizenry are disarmed do you think President Obama would disarm the security force that protects his kids at their school ?
        And would he disarm his security detail too ?

      • DaveH

        For those who, unlike Eddie, have some common sense:
        http://gunowners.org/op052609cb.htm

      • DaveH

        Eddie says — “What about that dude in Newport Beach CA who went to a Mall last Saturday (didn’t go into the Mall) Instead fired off 50 rounds in the parking lot and luckily only injured a mother and her child. I guess now we’ll have to have several police patrolling the parking lots since no concealed weapons permit holder came to the rescue”.

        California is one of the toughest states in the union in which to get a Concealed Carry Permit, Eddie, you ignoramus.
        And you wonder why you have no credibility on this board?

      • eddie47d

        Double ignoramus Dave H.! Which proves even further that any one can get a gun plus its rather hard to conceal and assault weapon which he used!

      • JeffH

        eddie the ignoramous liar says “…Which proves even further that any one can get a gun plus its rather hard to conceal and assault weapon which he used!”

        The Newport Beach shooter used an assault weapon?

        You are a liar eddie, an out and out liar!

        This from the LA Times: The gunman who fired more than 50 rounds at busy Fashion Island shopping center in Newport Beach on Saturday was described by police as a “destitute individual” who decided that “this was his way of venting his life problems.”

        Marcos Gurrola, 42, is accused of firing a “semiautomatic handgun” dozens of times into the air before he was taken into custody, authorities said. No one was wounded in the shooting, although one person was injured fleeing to safety.
        http://articles.latimes.com/2012/dec/17/local/la-me-mall-shooter-20121217

      • JC

        eddie47d says:
        December 27, 2012 at 1:22 pm
        Double ignoramus Dave H.! Which proves even further that any one can get a gun plus its rather hard to conceal and assault weapon which he used!
        _______________________________________________________________________
        Nope! The AR was fund in his trunk. It never fired a shot at Newtown.

      • JeffH

        JC, to further clarify, an AR-15 is not an assault weapon, it is a single action semi-automatic rifle incapable of full auto fire.

      • DaveH

        Good Grief. I could have more intelligent conversations with an ape at the zoo.
        Eddie says — “Which proves even further that any one can get a gun”.
        This from the same guy who has been arguing for days that we need more Gun Control?
        Yikes. I wonder what it feels like to be as dumb as a rock?

      • JC

        Good point Jeff,
        I have an old Cooey .22 that is also a semi automatic…
        same action an an AR and hardly an “assault rifle”.

      • JC

        Good point Jeff,
        I have an old Cooey .22 that is also a semi automatic…
        same action as an AR and hardly an “assault rifle”.

      • JeffH

        JC, is your Cooey a Model 64 made by Winchester? I remember shooting my uncles .22 Winchester Cooey 64? or 84? semi-auto if memory serves me. He lived in Canada before he moved back to the states.

      • JC

        It is a Winchester…I’ll have to check the model though.
        It’s got the rabbit hunting scene engraved in the stock.
        it’s pretty cool actually and work like a darn.
        I hit 2 ” groups at 150 yds with it.

      • Joe H

        eddie,
        If you have any froends that are NRA members and get their magazine, ask them to borrow their magazine and read the section “Armed Citizen” EVERY month there are news stories of people from 10 to 70 saving their lives and others because they had a gun in their home. I doubt you HAVE those friends or any others for that matter, just wishful thinking on my part, but try!

      • JC

        Joe, I’ve posted the Armed Citizen website for eddiot’s benefit a number of times.
        There are hundreds if not thousands of real life stories of crimes being stopped by honest law abiding citizens with guns. he’ll never look though…it would conflict with his conflicted mind.

        Notice there’s no news on the most recent theater shooting in Texas?
        Know why? A law abiding person with a gun hit the shooter twice…no one was killed.
        It doesn’t play right for the anti gun liberal media…so Shhhh…it didn’t happen.

    • JC

      Well said Tom Cook.
      Ignore the anti God pimple called nc.
      Everyone needs something to believe in…
      nc…has nothing.

  • http://yahoo.com Frank

    The real question is…..”How much longer are “We The People” going to allow this communists media and communist administration to destroy America????

    • eddie47d

      Is Frank leading the charge for the nutjobs today? More falsehoods to embellish your already weak drivel! I know some of you like to say this is a communist administration. Not much different than the left calling the Bush administration a fascist one! You take a wee bit of truth and turn it into even more far fetched fear and paranoia. The “fascist right wing media” is alive and well too if you want to jump into that rabbit hole Frankie! Randolph Linn age 52 and who lived in a suburb of Toledo Ohio burned a Mosque that was nearby and did $1 million in damage. He was armed to the teeth and wanted to inflict as many casualties as possible. By the time he got there the service was over and he walked through the Mosque looking for victims, (no one was found) He also brought 3 gas cans and then implemented the second part of his plan which was to burn it down. During his trial and in court testimony he was asked why he did this. His answer was that he only listens to FOX News and had for a few years. “They told him to take action against the Muslims and encouraged him to do so”. Maybe FOX was totally innocent but obviously they are saying things that put extreme ideas into peoples heads. Now maybe the far right can add Gasoline to their Guns and Greed philosophy!

      • Capitalist at Birth

        Dupe, ignorant fool, stupid idiot. Take your pick, they all fit in describing you,

      • DaveH

        Eddie says — “Is Frank leading the charge for the nutjobs today?”.
        Afraid of a little competition, Eddie?

      • eddie47d

        I have no fear of that with Capitalist at Birth and Dave H babbling their nonsense! LOL!

      • DaveH

        Of course not. It would require a modicum of intelligence to know that you’ve been severely thrashed on a regular basis, Eddie.

      • Joe H

        DaveH,
        If that’s the case eddie will NEVER know!!!

    • TIME

      Dear Frank,

      Yes indeed, thats the real question, I think many know the answer to that question – oddly its not quite what some would think it would be.

      Gun stores all accross this nation are stripped to the walls of stock, and have been now for the last two weeks. Yet hundred’s per hour – thousands per day, day after day are still coming in wanting to get armed and get ready, they have broken the sleep walking factor. { People are now waking up on mass.}

      Even the most mindless sheep have seen through the 12/14/12 event as its being a
      “100% Staged & FAKE” event – no matter how much BS the mass medai is tossing, People on mass are still able to see through it. for what it really is .

      { The MASS AWAKNING is on. }

      BUT PLEASE do keep in mind ~ The IMF & the Global Bankers are now going to now go full speed ahead as they can’t tiun back ~ they understand that they will end up in JAIL or worse.

      Please also keep this in mind ~ that saddly they willl start WW III before they sink below the waves of their own GREED and LUST for Blood.
      They will also break the bank too, so please be ready to help others who were to stupid to get ready.
      They will also impose as many Draconian laws as they can on you before they fall, as well get ready for a lot more ” FAKED” KILLINGS as well even real ones ~ to unfold over the next number of months, its going to get really bad people stay strong, and keep the FAITH.

      { People the whole world is watching YOU, If you win they win.}
      We can beat this Monster, but you have to take back your SOUL. then we will WIN

      Peace and Love, Shalom

      • JeffH

        TIME, Merry Christmas!

        Last saturday I sold one of my guns to a fellow sportsman up in San Francisco. It took us over 1-1/2 hours to get to the front of the line to do the paperwork for the transfer. All they needed from me was my identification and my signature,. The buyer had to fill out all of the paperwork. The gun shop(in Pacifica)will hold the gun for the required 10 day waiting period and then the guy should be able to pick it up, barring failure to pass the background check. I’m sure he’ll have another long wait when he goes to pick it up.

        What’s ironic is that on sunday I bought another gun in Fresno at Dick’s Sporting Goods…I was the only one making a gun purchase at that time but it still took 30+- minutes to fill out all the required forms and pay for it.

        AS an FYI, in California we must either purchase an approved “gun lock” or sign an affidavit that states what model of gun safe is owned by the purchaser.

      • DaveH

        Yep, and California (at the top of the Brady Campaign Gun Control ranking) has a murder rate of 4.8 per 100,000 while Utah (at the bottom of the Brady Campaign Gun Control ranking) has a murder rate of 1.9 per 100,000. Clearly Gun Control isn’t the answer.

      • JeffH

        Dave, the worst of the worst California anti-gun legislator is Kevin De Leon(D-LA)…Brown recently signed into law DeLeon’s SB 1315 which authorizes Los Angeles County to enact and enforce an ordinance that is stricter than state law regarding the manufacture, sale, possession or use of any BB device, toy gun, replica of a firearm or other device that is so substantially similar in coloration and overall appearance.

      • TIME

        Dear Jeff,

        Merry Christmas to you, forgive me we have been so busy its jusy crazy.

        The ride is now just starting, the TIME line has been off, its fluid for them afterall they hold all the cards / but ~ numbers..

        Peace and Love, Shalom

      • TIME

        Dear Folks, go to the: Dave Hodges Common Sence Show page and read;

        { Why Ex- Feds and Wall Street exc are going into hiding.}

        I have been told a lot of this same intel by people I know, when you have not one but many differant people who are all saying the same things ~ and they are not related by any common thread other than trying to get people awake,

        You have very strong evidence of a coming event.

        You don’t need a crystal ball to figure all this out people. There are but two single things the Global Bankers have not been able to get done, { so we must stop them now by exposing them as the criminals they are.}

        Before you don’t have a 1st Amendment left, and the 2nd gone along with it.

        As I keep saying you just can’t have a Marxist Police State if the people have guns.
        You all have the keys – will you keep them, or give them away?

        Your call, thousands are waking up every day now, Slaves without equal measure of defence stand no chance of breaking the chains,

        Where as Slaves with equal measure can not only hold off the Criminals, both common and those in $3500.00 suits But the slaves can also WIN.

        Peace and Love, Shalom

      • Kate8

        TIME – I heard that the showdown is about to begin. The rats are scurrying to hide themselves.

        There are things at play now on both sides…have been for a long time (under the radar for obvious reasons). Time to pray, pray, pray for the good guys. This is one we cannot lose.

        Obama may be going on permanent vacation. We’ll see.

        I even heard that the treasonous rats in DC are being offered ‘amnesty’ if they come clean. Must be a tough place to be, since no one from any side will ever trust them. Heh heh.

        Lots of things about to explode, perhaps literally. Hopefully not. Time to be ready.

        Godspeed, all.

      • Kate8

        TIME – Once again I’m having trouble posting.

        What do you make of this one?

        http://americankabuki.blogspot.com.au/2012/12/official-announcement-from-one-peoples.html

    • NativeBlood

      Just as soon as we as a citizenry identify who is causing and controlling this administration. They are not smart or powerful enough to go against what is logical unless they have been paid well to do so. Lobbyists are very powerful influences and those who we trust to perform well in office are being distracted with huge sums of money and will do what they are told or face some dire consequences. I don’t know all their names but they are not the usual christian citizenry we are used to at home. You do the research. They do not work for us anymore and they do not fear being voted out anymore because their new wealthy and powerful handlers run the show.

      • tony newbill

        NativeBlood I agree and those same SOBs are also the Technocratic society thats calling for a zero growth economy and Population control and Depopulation to save earth from Humanity in every aspect .

    • Larry K.

      how much longer? until they come and try to disarm us.

      • Capitalist at Birth

        When they think the time is right. Not just yet, but, it may occur sooner than you think.

  • Scott

    In the Connt shooting, when the first reposrts came out a police officer said they found the shooters car, before he was even found and identified, because there was an assault rifle on the seat. Later there was even a video on the news showing them taken it out of the car. The police also reported that he used 2 hand guns. Then later that day, after the government got involvedd the story changed that he used and assault rifle and the video of them taking it out pf the car disapperaed. What lies to use a tragedy to get what they want, to disarm every law abiding american

    • eddie47d

      He had 3 weapons on him in the school and at least one in the car. Although I heard one was found in the trunk. Would it make any difference if he killed with one gun or had 10? Typically righty more concerned about himself instead of dead kids.

      • tony newbill

        Its time to grow the economy and increase tax revenues from Economic growth that can fund the schools needed security !!!!

      • hipshotpercusion

        Eddie, what ever happened to the 2 men who were chased down outside and cuffed up?

      • DaveH

        Eddie says — “Would it make any difference if he killed with one gun or had 10?”.
        That’s odd because yesterday Eddie was railing about the dangerous people who had large gun collections:
        http://personalliberty.com/2012/12/26/three-gs-in-unlucky-13/#comment-792594

        Make up your mind, Troll.

      • CZ52

        eddie your posts are the ONLY place I have seen it reported that there were three guns found on the shooter. Please provide some sources for that claim. For most of two days the Conn. police said that he had two pistols and did the shooting with them. Since there is a big difference in the appearance of 223 casings and 9mm casings are you saying the Conn police are so incompatant they do not know the difference? Are you saying the Conn police are blind that it took them two days to realize there was a third weapon in the shooters posession? How do you explain the fact that it was only after the coroner said the kids were shot with a rifle that the cops pon the scene realized the empty casings were from a rifle not a pistol?

      • eddie47d

        CZ52 maybe you better prove what Hishotpercushion said instead of demanding proof from me. That would have been on every news outlet throughout the country if true. I was going to bring up that coroner report also which rather proves the Bushmaster was used.I can only report what I see and hear no different than you.

      • eddie47d

        Dave H Interpreting for me again? You do that alot lately! Maybe someday you will get it right!

      • Vicki

        eddie47d says:
        “He had 3 weapons on him in the school and at least one in the car. ”

        Really? You were there huh? That would mean you are either one of the mysterious people reported at the scene or you are a government agent. Interesting. Shill not troll.

      • JC

        Well eddie, let’s see…
        The school was littered with .223 ammunition. None of the “4″ handguns found fires .223
        The only weapon found that fires .223 was found in the trunk of Adam Lanza’s car.
        Since he supposedly killed himself in the school, how did he use the AR in the trunk?
        And who were the 2 other guys arrested? And isn’t it an odd coincidence that Adam Lanza’s father was scheduled to testify at the Libor trial (banking scandal)…and so was the father of James Egan Holmes…small world aint it?

      • eddie47d

        You sure are in the spin zone CJ! Trying to tie everything into another conspiracy? I could say John Hinckley was a strong Republican supporter so he worked with the Republican Party and used his son to shoot at Reagan in order to gain control for himself! Enough of your game playing and conjectures for we can all do that.

      • JeffH

        JC, I think the rumor that the two fathers were scheduled to testify at the LIBOR hearings is probably an internet myth. I haven’t found anything concrete that supports that rumor.

      • JC

        Fair enough Jeff. I’ll do some more homework before I post anything about it again.

      • JC

        eddie47d says:
        December 27, 2012 at 5:27 pm
        You sure are in the spin zone CJ! Trying to tie everything into another conspiracy?
        _________________________________________________________________

        Well, you insane little bug…
        Jeff was kind enough to point out that I may be in error regarding the LIBOR Scandal and I’ll concede the point until I can verify…

        As for the physical evidence…how is that spin zone?
        It’s real and indisputable…no long gun was used by Adam Lanza inside the school.
        FOUR handguns were found…
        Spin That!

      • BR549

        JC wrote: “It’s real and indisputable…no long gun was used by Adam Lanza inside the school.”

        I believe the medical examiner said in his preliminary investigation that all of the children had been killed with long gun rounds (correct me if I’m wrong), but what is the latest info on Lanza having used only pistols?

        The media is (was) in such a frenzy to be the first on the air, they don’t even care if what they report is the truth. What happened to the “two cars”, the “guy in the woods”, and the report from one of the children (I believe) that authorities had handcuffed someone in the hallway who was saying, “Don’t shoot”, (or something like that)? Too many unknowns.

      • JC

        JC says:
        December 29, 2012 at 10:41 pm
        BR549,

        Start here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j_fI0hm1dqY

        There’s a few more videos on the same page.
        And no shortage of good questions being asked…

      • BR549

        JC (one of the clearer heads here) wrote: “… no shortage of good questions being asked…”

        I think one of the major problems we have is that the masses have become used to confiding in news media sources which, over the years, had been seen as honest, objective stalwarts of journalistic integrity. Then we found out that even journalistic father Cronkite was lying to us about Viet Nam, and it’s all gone downhill from there. Cronkite did a damn good job of feeding the masses their daily dose of government pablum, but what made it work was that …… they did not know about it.

        And nothing has changed. In Sandy Hook, one cop is telling us that all the shootings were from pistols, while the medical examiner had stated that the first seven bodies he had examined had all been killed by long guns. Lanza’s AR15 was supposedly in the front seat of his car, yet there also appears to have been a shotgun or whatever in the trunk. It’s a circus, and meanwhile, the anti gun people have all lined up to buy tickets to the “scariest show in town”, panting and salivating all the way to the ticket booth.

        One thing is for sure, as RT has reported this morning, Obama has been the greatest gun salesman the industry could have ever asked for. This response, in part, being due to the recent discovery that DHS had ordered 1.6 BILLION rounds of hollow point ammo for its people. That doesn’t even cover additional ammunition ordered for the IRS, police departments, and all the military branches.

        Meanwhile, while all of this craziness is taking place around them, the libtards are rehearsing Kumbaya.

      • JC

        BR549,

        That’s pretty good assessment all around.
        The only thing good I can say about the Kenyan presently ensconced in the White House
        is that he has done more to promote the Second Amendment than anyone in history since the founder’s. The NRA is getting about 8000 new members a day…(or was), and guns are flying of the shelves everywhere. One must wonder if this isn’t a perfect example of unintended consequences as regards almost every liberal policy…the exact opposite of the desired result? ;-)

    • nc

      Scott, just how positive are you that the shooter did not use an assault rifle to kill anyone?
      Early reports by the media are often incorrect! Just like all of the government conspiracies and red flags that never reach the level of PROOF here! Makes good reading to those who want to believe that mess but it makes for terrible history as it dies on the vine!

      • JeffH

        nc says, “Scott, just how positive are you that the shooter did not use an assault rifle to kill anyone?”

        I know for a fact that the shooter didn’t use an “assault” weapon.

        Obviously you don’t…but why am I not surprised.

      • CZ52

        For two days the police said the shooter used two handguns. It was only after the coroner said a rifle was used that the cops on scene “realized” the empty casings were from a 223 rifle not a 9mm handgun. Now, as I said to eddie are you claiming the Conn police are that incompetent?

      • eddie47d

        No CZ52 it sounds like you are the one trying to make the Connecticut police out to be incompetent.

      • DaveH

        There is no amount of proof we could offer to convince you of anything you refuse to believe, NC.

    • http://personalliberydigest big wyo

      .Some more bad news for the people
      Helicopter news cameras showing the pursuit and capture and arrest of two men in the wooded area.
      Women and boy stating a cuffed prone man in camo pants and dark jacket on sidewalk outside school.
      Statement already known to be false by Police Lieutenant and subsequent threats to private press.
      What was filmed by same helicopter news being removed from the trunk of the car was not an assault rifle – it was an autoloading shotgun.
      Totally changing and conflicting reports of the guns used.
      Eddy can talk all the crap he squeeze out but no final explanation of what happened has been put out.
      Wouldn’t you love to have your name signed to that one

      • JC

        I guess it’s a little like the story of the Kenyans’ birthplace…the story just keeps “evolving”.

      • Joe H

        Now THERE’S an example of “evolution”!!!!!

    • Larry K.

      I still believe someone in government is involved in this shooting to farther the way in taking our guns. there are to many strange things about this shooting. one question i have is, if the kids were shot with a 223 cal.rifle and there were 223 cal. shell casings and no mention of hand gun shell casings? if the rifle was found in the car…how did it get back there? when you think deeply about this whole thing, things don’t add up.

      • DaveH

        How about a rabid killer who wears a bullet-proof vest but then instead of going out in a blaze of glory against the police he just kills himself?

    • JC

      BR549,

      Start here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j_fI0hm1dqY

      There’s a few more videos on the same page.
      And no shortage of good questions being asked…

  • Peter

    Logical conclusions:
    As the NRA have said, “Put armed guards in every entrance of every school in the USA.” But what does that lead to?
    Nutters will then look to easier targets.
    Shopping Malls? Probably.
    So then we need armed guards on every entrance to every shopping mall in the USA.
    Ok, so what happens then?
    Public buildings? Half of which are already guarded, but what about the ones that aren’t?
    OK, so then we need armed guards on every entrance to every public building in the USA.
    What happens then?
    Public open spaces?
    So we need armed guards on every street corner of every town in the USA.

    What will all this cost?
    Arms manufacturers will adore it.
    Big government will adore it.
    What happens to your civil liberties and basic freedoms under these very real scenarios?
    Too bad kid, you lose.
    Do you want to be safe from nutters? This is what you will eventually need to be safe.
    But it doesn’t guarantee absolute safety.
    What if one of the guards goes postal?
    Can’t happen?
    Crap.

    What about targetting mental health?
    OK, how does that happen?
    You have a Mom with a deranged kid who at 10 years old threatens to kill her and everyone around her, including his/her classmates.
    The Mom approaches juvenile health services under either Obamacare or insured health.
    Both try to belittle the circumstances and send the kid home so he/she doesn’t cost the public/insurance purse too much.
    The cops can’t forcibly enter the family home, even at the direct request of the Mom, because the kid hasn’t actually committed a crime, he/she has only threatend a crime.

    If you then legislate to allow cops or juvenile health to detain kids like this (and there are many of them), where does it stop and who decides whether or not the kid (or adult) is mentally unstable?
    Who gets to draw the line?

    Bottom line? This whole ugly question needs much more than just a gun discussion or just a mental health discussion.

    It needs a wholistic approach across the USA.

    Here endeth the lesson :-)

    • STEVE E.

      Where I Iive the only gun free zones are schools and some government offices. Everywhere else a citizen can open or concealed carry. So there is no problem there.

      • http://yahoo.com Frank

        The government offices have guns!!!

    • eddie47d

      The NRA and GOA are demanding a police state which the the right “supposedly” loathes. Go figure! The more police we have in every nook and cranny the more power that police state will have. As we demand more security with cameras and guns your every move will be recorded and action will be taken by that police state. Be careful for what you wish for because you are the ones inviting it in!

      • hipshotpercusion

        Eddie, please show me any proof that GOA or Larry Pratt stated that.

      • JC

        Wow eddie…way out there again today…
        The only thing obvious from your seriously twisted (normal for you) statement,
        is that you’re still putting Scotch on your Corn Flakes.

        It must be so difficult to be you.

      • DaveH

        Eddie says — “The NRA and GOA are demanding a police state which the the right “supposedly” loathes”.
        I pronounce you Liar, Eddie. Prove me wrong if you can.

      • eddie47d

        I told you that yesterday Dave H about Larry Pratt and the GOA. Remember how he wanted to control American culture like he had learned from his time in Guatemala. Roving bands of death squads to keep citizens in line! What he endorsed is worse than a police state!

      • DaveH

        Eddie, apparently you haven’t gotten the message — Words coming out of your conjectural mouth aren’t “proof” of anything. Do you have some references to back up your claims?

      • Vicki

        eddie47d says:
        “I told you that yesterday Dave H about Larry Pratt and the GOA.”

        And you offered what evidence beyond your “proof by bald assertion”?
        As several of us have pointed out you have a VERY low credibility. That comment above is NOT improving it.

      • Average Joe

        DaveH,
        “Do you have some references to back up your claims?”

        Momentary lapse of reason?…We are after all talking about eddie here….
        His words alone are all that is needed…how dare you be sacreligious by asking for any proof.
        We’ll have none of that around here Mr.!!!!
        Please Mr. eddiesan forgive us for doubting your Holy Word alone
        Please do not punish us by saying something else that is completely STUPID and completely out in left field……and…as you tend to do….without anything other than your personal opinion…to support your claims…half-wit!

        AJ

      • eddie47d

        If I want proof I look it up A.J. you ought to try it and bring your own facts to the table. I’m actually on the GOA’s mailing list so I know what they are up to. Obviously I looked a little deeper and outside their propaganda to find out more about them!. Now go do your own research!

      • Kate8

        eddie – If by police state you mean citizen watchmen (minutemen) to keep government run law enforcement in line, then I say to go for it.

        I’d much rather see militia guarding public places than overarmed police squads.

      • Average Joe

        “I’m actually on the GOA’s mailing list so I know what they are up to.”
        And you were expecting a medal? or a chest to pin it to?
        You are on the mailing list…big deal, it doesn’t make you a supporter of guns or the 2nd Amendment…anymore than being on PLD’s mailing list makes you a Conservative……..

        Do you ever get tired of blowing smoke up your own backside around here?…Apparently not…you seem to do it so often…..
        There really is a special kind of stupid reserved for folks like you eddie…..enjoy it.

        AJ

    • Paul Wells

      Interesting observations, Peter. Really, it’s only when they started letting institutionalized people out of those institutions back in the 80′s & 90′s (at the request/insistence of the liberal left, I might add) that we started having problems like this. It would be far cheaper as you point out to keep nutcases out of the general population, particularly when they show violent tendencies.

    • Larry K.

      no body is saying this is the best we have but it will have to do until something better comes along . it’s true, we do need better mental health care but even with that, there is evil out there and nothing can be done to stop it, but try and control it the best we can.

    • Vicki

      Peter writes:
      “Bottom line? This whole ugly question needs much more than just a gun discussion or just a mental health discussion.

      It needs a wholistic approach across the USA.”

      And that holistic approach was invented over 200 YEARS ago. And maybe even before that. They even documented the approach and put it in the Constitution of the United States.

      Give us back the best tools for self defense and we will NEUTRALIZE the threat REGARDLESS of the cause.

  • http://yahoo.com Frank

    Obama hates Christians, the Military, the Constitution, Guns, white people, and freedom!! Their will be a War as he will not stop trying to destroy all of the above!!

    • eddie47d

      You made 6 glaring lies in one short statement Frank! More paranoia and fear from the far right fringes!

      • Karolyn

        Amen!

      • hipshotpercusion

        I don’t know if O-homo hates white people but his wife is quoted as at least having a strong dislike for us. White folks that is.

      • Randy G

        Eddie— Your brain is definitely on the wrong end of the Spinal Cord

      • Capitalist at Birth

        You and Karoylyn are will dupes or pure and simple ignorant slugs.

      • Larry K.

        I don’t think he did.

      • DaveH

        Neither Frank, nor Eddie, nor Karolyn, knows what Obama hates or not. Only Obama knows that. Well, Karolyn might be able to consult her Magic Mirror, but it lies to her anyway.

      • JeffH

        Dave H, do not forget that eddie knows everything, in his own delusional way, and he’s always ready to prove it…in his own delusional way.

      • eddie47d

        Your no Shepard Jeff H but only one of many sheeple who these right wing sites fleece! Baaaaa!

      • DaveH

        Baaaa? What kind of noise do Trolls make, Eddie?

      • JeffH

        Keep posting ignoramous eddie. If you couldn’t post something stupid, you’d post nothing at all.

      • Average Joe

        When E.F.Hutton speaks, people listen.
        When eddie47d speaks, people laugh….hysterically…..

        The eddiot mantra:

        “I don’t believe it. Prove it to me and I still won’t believe it.”
        Douglas Adams

      • JeffH

        AJ, :) you made me chuckle with that one.

    • nc

      Frank, all of what you “predict” was supposed to have happened BEFORE the 2012 election! Not only did it NOT happen, the American people have already voted on that fact!!
      The right uses figures of THE NUMBER people who carry guns to prevent crimes they think might happen as proof of the necessity to carry guns. Carrying a gun because you are afraid of something that hasn’t happened is PARANOIA! Paranoia is not a statistic!!! IT IS A MENTAL DISEASE! Back when fewer people carried guns there were fewer people killed by guns!

      • tony newbill

        You Know this Video is just astonishing !!!!! http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=BT1yqBZQOTs

      • hipshotpercusion

        nc…I live in Florida. I like 1,000,640 or so of my fellow citizens carry a weapon. We are the 4th most populous State in the union and have drug problems like anywhere else. But, our violent crime and murder rate is lower than say Illinois and Chicago in particular. As economist John Lott wrote in his book “More Guns Equal Less Crime.”

      • Capitalist at Birth

        Your lies are not supported by the statistics. The facts are exactly the opposite. Would you care to publish the articles or literature where you got these assertions? Are you a card carrying member of the Communist Party?

      • Larry K.

        that’s not paranoia that’s being prepared to save his, his family and yes your sorry a$$.

      • DaveH

        NC says — “Carrying a gun because you are afraid of something that hasn’t happened is PARANOIA! Paranoia is not a statistic!!! IT IS A MENTAL DISEASE! Back when fewer people carried guns there were fewer people killed by guns!”.
        You poor sick old man, nc. Do you still think your shouting makes your nonsensical arguments valid?
        Note that NC uses the Liberal Progressive equivocal trick of talking about “fewer people killed by guns”. But I’m betting that you couldn’t even back that up, NC, with actual facts.
        Meanwhile, the rest of us don’t care if people are killed with guns, knives, hammers, electrical ties, neckerchiefs, ties, or anything else. We just want to be able to protect ourselves from the killers.
        For those who would like to be less ignorant than NC:
        http://www.disastercenter.com/crime/uscrime.htm

        Notice that the rate of murders (second chart) were relatively constant until the Gun Control started in earnest after the Kennedy Assassination. Then after the Robert Kennedy and the Martin Luthor King killings took place we got the Gun Control Act of 1968.
        Then over the next 2 decades there were many more gun controlling laws passed.
        In the years after 1990, an increasing number of states started allowing Concealed Carry permits, and 4 states even have no restrictions on Concealed Carry. See the Concealed Carry Shall Issue map in my next comment.

      • DaveH

        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Rtc.gif

        So compare the growing number of Shall Issue states with the actual number of murders and violent crimes in the US since 1990 in the chart in my above comment.
        The murder rate was 9.8 per 100,000 in 1991, and has been dropping since to the rate of 4.7 in 2011. Clearly the increased number of Concealed Carriers hasn’t resulted in more murders. In fact the rate has been Halved.
        So, in the face of those kind of contrary statistics, NC and his Liberal Progressives are still trying to make helpless victims out of the rest of us. I can see them restraining people while a thug beats the tar out of those people.
        And he calls us “mentally diseased”?

      • JC

        NC says — “Carrying a gun because you are afraid of something that hasn’t happened is PARANOIA! Paranoia is not a statistic!!! IT IS A MENTAL DISEASE!
        _____________________________________________________________________

        Am I planning a flat tire? No! But I carry a spare, just in case.
        Am I planning a house fire? NO! But I have fire extinguishers just in case.

        That makes me paranoid?
        It isn’t paranoia moron…it’s just good planning. :)

      • Kate8

        tony newbill – Yep. Too bad we have a Congress and SCOTUS, as well as pretty much every other branch of governance, who have sold us out right along with their pal, Barack.
        Otherwise we might be able to present a case of treason against him.

        As it is, it doesn’t matter how strong the evidence is. Not one judge will rule against O.

        Judge Roll did, and you know what happened to him.

      • Joe H

        nc,
        Do you carry insurance on your car? Life insurance? Health insurance? Man!!! Are YOU ever paranoid!!!!!!

    • NativeBlood

      I’m afraid it is too late..the damage has already been done.

    • Myava Buchanan

      Total agree with Frank, I am sure Big Governments office and their homes have their guns. If they tried to take our guns away from us. We will not giving up to them. We will fight for our rights. They will have to kill us to get the weapons. We are losing our Freedom and We must fight back to keep our Freedom. Stay Stand on FAITH.
      many people loss their jobs and cars and houses. many more… look at four years what obama did to us.. it is starting fall apart.. Obama plan slowing and secret to destroy our freedom and our rights. and Obama is good at manipulate on many things. people who vote Obama are stupid and blind… Obama and his wife hate America and they support Muslim. One day Obama will let more Muslim people come in U.S. and take over control. that why he want to take away our rights with guns. We must keep the Great Fights for our right. It’s our homeland. Obama is from Kenya. n not U.S. citizen. He has no right to run the president at the first place.

      • Neil Swan

        Myava Buchanan your trying to say that more than half
        of the people in America are stupider than you.

        Neil

      • Kate8

        You are right, Myava. Unless we get some help from military patriots, we are in deep trouble.

        I did see where Obama is planning to send overseas all of the military troops pledged to defend the American people. He wants them out of the way. Already they are being “suicided” in greater numbers than are dying in combat zones.

        I’m concerned that if we don’t see some action soon it will be too late.

    • czman75

      Think you left your brain at home today. ovomit hates everything you stated except himself. Your are way out in “LEFT” field with that statement.

  • http://twitter.com/frank95054 Legatus legionis (@frank95054)

    I am not by a long shot an Obama supporter. However, the last time I checked, it was Congress that held the purse strings. So, if Obama added $6 Trillion in Debt during his first four years, then Congress wan an accomplice. A Republican Congress at that!

    • STEVE E.

      That’s why we need Libertarians to be elected in offices. That would not happen then.

      • DaveH

        Well it might if we don’t carefully vet our candidates. There have been a number of Libertarians in Name Only in the past several elections.
        Gary Johnson isn’t one of them though:
        http://www.garyjohnson2012.com/front

      • Robert Smith

        Bob Barr wasn’t really a libritarian either.

        But that’s understandable. That party doesn’t count since Lyndon LaRoach was caught and went to jail. Anyone can be a candidate, regardless of how much they want to screw Americans.

        Rob

      • BR549

        Robert Smith wrote: “Bob Barr wasn’t really a libritarian either. But that’s understandable. That party doesn’t count since Lyndon LaRoach was caught and went to jail. Anyone can be a candidate, regardless of how much they want to screw Americans.”

        Interesting. Geittner hadn’t paid his taxes, but that was OK. LaRouche hadn’t paid his and it’s on national news AND he serves time.

        It wouldn’t have anything to do with the fact that LaRouche was researching Kissinger’s involvement in conspiring against the US and that he (Kissinger) asked the FBI to step in, would it?

      • Jeff

        I think Kissinger is probably a war criminal, but with enemies like Lyndon LaRouche (Why are so many of your allies virtually illiterate?), he can’t be all bad.

    • NativeBlood

      Well now, why is it that Democrats forget that first 2 years of Pres obama’s tour as CIC,
      he enjoyed a near supermajority. 2 years to do a lot of damage. Can’t blame repubcrats
      for everything during his eighture.

      • Vicki

        Because democrats only think in a very narrow slice of time. They tend to forget that there is a past and thus history and thus are doomed to repeat.

      • Robert Smith

        Yes Vicki, the right wing has many ways to be obstructionists, even when they are a minority and not representing most Americans.

        Rob

    • Capitalist at Birth

      The Republicans regained the majority and were sworn into office in January of 2011. they submitted a reduction in spending budget twice and it sat on Harry Reid’s desk. Just thought you might like to be aware of some facts before you begin spouting off false accusations.

    • James Andrews

      Actually, the formerly democratic Congress, under both Bush and Owebama, spent more money in their four year reign, than all of the other former Congresses COMBINED, throughout history of this nation! So don’t just blame the Republicans!

      • Jeff

        I know it is in your DNA to start complaining about the deficit the moment a Democrat gets elected President and to find a way to blame the Democrats for everything bad done by a Republican, but here are the real sources of the deficit. Notice how little Obama’s policies have contributed. In case you hadn’t noticed, the Bush Tax Cuts and wars didn’t end on January 20, 2009.

        http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2012/05/obama-romney-deficit-debt-chart.php

      • DaveH

        The buck stops with the current President, Jeff. There has been nothing at all to prevent him from decreasing the Spending.

      • Jeff

        The reason people are so concerned about the “fiscal cliff” is because suddenly reducing government spending by so much will destroy the recovery and throw us into recession or depression. It was the great insight of Keynes that when demand disappears from the economy, the government must step in and provide it. The Depression ended with WWII. Economically speaking, what was WWII but a huge government spending program? The pure “free market” was a myth in Adam Smith’s day and more of one today.

      • eddie47d

        If there wasn’t the huge Bush deficit there may not be this huge Obama deficit. So apparently the buck didn’t stop with Bush!

      • DaveH

        Did anybody here defend Bush’s Spending, Eddie?
        What has that got to do with anything?

      • JC

        Jeff says:
        December 27, 2012 at 10:49 am
        The reason people are so concerned about the “fiscal cliff” is because suddenly reducing government spending by so much will destroy the recovery and throw us into recession or depression. It was the great insight of Keynes that when demand disappears from the economy, the government must step in and provide it.
        __________________________________________________________________

        “By a continuing process of inflation, government can confiscate, secretly and unobserved, an important part of the wealth of their citizens.”
        John Maynard Keynes

        “I work for a government I despise for ends I think criminal.”
        John Maynard Keynes

      • DaveH

        Jeff says — “It was the great insight of Keynes that when demand disappears from the economy, the government must step in and provide it”.
        That is just about the most ignorant thing I’ve seen come out of Jeff’s mouth, and he’s said some pretty ignorant things. If a good economy is something Government can turn on by boosting the money supply, Jeff, just why are there so many poor countries? Are you saying they can’t figure out how to print more money?
        Oddly enough, you’ve been given all the opportunity to learn better, Jeff, but you choose instead to denigrate those who are trying to teach you.
        It doesn’t matter how much people “demand” something if they can’t exchange something of value to get that product. Usually that something of value is money that they earned from producing products that other people desire. To think that increasing the money supply is anything other than robbery, of those people who have cash savings, is just plain ludicrous.
        By diminishing the value of their savings, those victims of money creation become less able to “demand” new products. At the very least, the decreased “demand” of those robbery victims offsets the increased “demand” of those who got the Government largess of new money. But worse than that is that the victims become discouraged and work less, thus producing less, so it becomes worse than just a zero-sum loss to the economy. Plus, due to increased monetary demand for the existing Capital Goods (machinery and the like) their prices go up and become even less affordable for those who would have used them to spur productivity.
        Add to that the fact that, whenever people get a windfall of unearned money, they tend to waste it on Unproductive pursuits.
        Now I will have to endure some more name-calling from Jeff since he has no logical rebut to my comment.

      • Jeff

        And what happens to those who work hard, build up a little savings, and are wiped out in one of the regularly-scheduled recessions/depressions/banking crises that are inevitable in the kind of “pure” economy you keep pushing? As long as you’re not one of them, you couldn’t care less. The New Deal reforms kept that from happening for half a century. The economic system is here to serve us, not vice versa.

      • JC

        Jeff says:
        December 27, 2012 at 7:39 pm
        And what happens to those who work hard, build up a little savings, and are wiped out in one of the regularly-scheduled recessions/depressions/banking crises that are inevitable in the kind of “pure” economy you keep pushing?
        ____________________________________________________________________

        What you’ve just described is inevitable as long as we have a fractional reserve banking system (owned by foreigners) and Keynesian Economics…it’s a series of bubbles.

    • DaveH

      Legatus says — “So, if Obama added $6 Trillion in Debt during his first four years, then Congress wan an accomplice. A Republican Congress at that!”.
      Two problems with that statement, Legatus:
      1) This isn’t a pro-Republican web site.
      2) Only the House of Representatives is controlled by Republicans. The Senate is controlled by Democrats:
      http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0774721.html

    • Average Joe

      “A Republican Congress at that!”

      Oh?
      You do realize thar “Congress” consists of both the House and the Senate. right?
      You do realize that the House is controlled by Republicans and that the Senate is controlled by the Democrats, right?
      I am sure that you understand how Bills get passed too…right?…. House originates the Bill, then the Senate either votes for, against or doesn’t allow it to the floor at all. Once voted, it either goes to the President’s desk for signing, or it goes back to the House to be re-worked. In the last 4 years, more often than not, anything that the Republican’s have put forth in the House, the Democratic Senate ( led by Harry Reid) has refuse to bring to a vote…hell they haven’t even passed a budget in over 4 years. The one thing that they were hired (elected?) to do….PASS a budget..and they can’t even do that….

      I blame it on Stupid Americans..who continue to vote for these same stupid idiots…who continue to drag our Nation through the mud…all the while waving their Patriotic flags and screaming,”it’s for the kids”.

      Vote Libertarian, vote Independent…vote anything but Dem/ Repub…..

  • Louis Lemieux

    Guns in the wrong hands ruins lives!

    • Capitalist at Birth

      What is your point? That is an inane observation if I have ever heard one. Obvious, to even a person with an IQ of 90.

    • JUKEBOX

      The best example of this is Eric Holder with FAST & FURIOUS.

    • Vicki

      Louis Lemieux says a truism:
      “Guns in the wrong hands ruins lives!”

      Which is why guns in the right hands save lives. Since this is often a moment to moment decision we must leave guns in the hands of the (intended) victims so that they can efficiently neutralize the treat posed by guns in the wrong hands.
      http://www.press.uchicago.edu/Misc/Chicago/493636.html

      • Financially Insecure John

        Vicki,
        look at your wrist, they are getting ready to be cut………………………….

      • Vicki

        Your going to have to “splain” that comment. It fails to translate to the current discussion.

    • Bill

      Louis,
      You mean in the hands of our current tyrannical government?

    • Don

      Must the innocent law abiding citizens pay for the doings of the few.

  • Harold Olsen

    Obama’s main reason for wanting to ban guns in this country has nothing to do with violence. It has to do with the Constitution. The Constitution gives us the right to bear arms. Obama hates the Constitution and the rights it gives to the American people. He wants to take those rights away from us. As do all despots, he is starting with trying to limit our freedom of speech and by disarming us.

    • Paul Wells

      Sadly, you are correct, sir! Obama is no friend of our Constitution, and the sooner people pull their heads out, and realize this, the better off we will be!

    • eddie47d

      Poppycock Harold Olsen and Paul Wells! Didn’t you notice how much you run your mouths around here. Did someone forget to inform you that that is free speech. Such hypocrites! You have free speech and use it all the time yet make a lame attempt to say you don’t ! The same with guns,the 2nd Amendment will be there tomorrow and it will be there next year and for a long long time. Just like I keep saying fear and paranoia rule your lives and you all keep claiming up is down and down is up! So Paul maybe you ought to pull your head out. Besides some of these authors lie to you everyday especially those who say the 2nd will be taken away. The big (assumed) problem is who is allowed to defend their home from an outside intrusion. Actually everyone is for that is a God given right yet all I hear is how defenseless folks will be from the “gun grabbers”. More poppycock from the right! That includes you Phideaux!

      • Karolyn

        I just spent some time on debunking and skeptic sites, and how refreshing it is to get confirmation of what is really true. I find that I spend so much time on this blog due to my addiction that my thinking gets skewed. It’s too bad people only spend time on sites that say the same thing over and over and never look at the opposing views. Without balance in what we put into our minds, we become paranoid sheep. What a small, closed little world to live in!

      • hipshotpercusion

        Diane Feinstein in 1993…”If I could have gotten 51 votes in the Senate to ban them all, I would have! Mr. and Mrs America, turn them all in. But, i couldn’t get the votes.” Eddie. Don’t pee on my leg and tell me it’s raining!

      • Capitalist at Birth

        Eddie and Karloyn. You are both either, ignorant or willing dupes. The reason for the Second Amendment, is to prevent the Tyranny of our Government against us, not the occasional criminal or unwanted intruder. I will not give up the right to defend myself against you and those like you, who wish to destroy the Constitutional Republic in which we live. If you think you are man/woman enough, come find me and see if you can do it yourself. You won’t, because you are both cowards. You will send armed agents to murder me because I will resist being enslaved, even if it means dying. I will die a fee man. Care to take me up on my challenge. I doubt you have the cajones.

      • Paul Wells

        Dumb comrade eddie right on queue….
        When they first implemented income tax in 1913, it was a ” temporary tax to help raise money for war”. No one thought it would become permanent, nor so onerous, but no one (strenuously) objected, so let there be income tax.

        When they first implemented welfare and social security as a formal government program in 1935, the welfare part of it was designed to help people through some really rough times, and it was never contemplated that more than a minority of people (that’s less than 15% overall) would partake of it. Social Security was designed as a “supplement” to income, never intending to be a one size fits all, retirement program, but no one objected, so let there be welfare.

        When Madeline Murray O’Hair started her assault on school prayer and religious displays in the 1960′s, not enough people complained, and it become law.

        Dear Dumb Eddie…do you see a pattern here? It’s idiots like you that cannot nor will not learn from the past, that we have to rise up against your blatant stupidity. I didn’t specifically include you in my suggestion for people to pull their heads out, because yours is permanently, and forever stuck up your anal cavity. There truly is NO HOPE for you!

      • DaveH

        Karolyn says — “It’s too bad people only spend time on sites that say the same thing over and over and never look at the opposing views”.
        Are you joking, Karolyn? You must be. Or maybe you’re consulting your lying Magic Mirror again?
        We’ve all been buried up to our eyeballs in the Propaganda as dished out by the Public Schools and the MSM.
        But feel free, Karolyn, to join the debate and, instead of your usual condescension, actually state some things you believe to be fact. If those opposing views are indeed valid, then you should have no problem exposing our errors.

      • JeffH

        Karolyn says, “It’s too bad people only spend time on sites that say the same thing over and over and never look at the opposing views”.

        Gee, it’s too bad that some people are so ignorant that they can’t tell the difference between a shill or the dummies that fall in line with the shills. Try debunking your own hypocrisy Karolyn!

        “Stupid is as stupid does!”
        -Mrs. Gump

      • Jeff

        “Stupid is as stupid does!”
        -Mrs. Gump

        “Sieg heil!”
        -JeffH

        Why do you assume only those posts agreeing with you are somehow legitimate on this blog and everyone else is a shill or a troll? I’m sure you’d have more colorful descriptions if only your dog hadn’t eaten your Thesaurus.

      • JUKEBOX

        Double poppycock on you Eddie. You are too infected with a terminal case of rectal cranial inversion to see that Obama and his minions are fans of MARTIAL law and executive orders.

      • JeffH

        Paul Wells, I see you’ve gotten to know eddie pretty well…of course you’ve also noticed that he’s not the brightest bulb in the lamp too.

        “None so blind as those that will not see.”
        – Matthew Henry

        “None so empty as those who are full of themselves.”
        – Benjamin Whichcote

      • JeffH

        My, my…look who the cat drug in…it’s the progressive child ignoramous, with the Nazi fetish, Jeff.

      • JeffH

        Jeff, FYI…I don’t think you’re a paid shill. I think you’re just a troll and just one of the dummies that fall in line with the shills.

      • Karolyn

        OK, Dave – There is plenty of material to persue here.
        http://thrivedebunked.wordpress.com/

      • eddie47d

        Hipshotpercushion: Yes it is peeing rain down your leg for she wants to ban all assault type weapons and if that includes your precious AR-15 then so be it . There is no requirement in the 2nd Amendment that says you need such a weapon and neither of us knows exactly if they would have included or excluded such weapons.

      • http://www.boblivingstonletter.com/ Bob Livingston

        Dear eddie47d,

        You write: “or she wants to ban all assault type weapons and if that includes your precious AR-15 then so be it . There is no requirement in the 2nd Amendment that says you need such a weapon…” Words mean things. Look up the word “infringed.” What gives you the moral authority to determine whether someone “needs” a particular weapon just because the way it looks frightens you?

        You write: “You write: “and neither of us knows exactly if they would have included or excluded such weapons.” http://www.feinstein.senate.gov/public/index.cfm/assault-weapons You are truly dumber than a sack of hammers. Your anti-gun rants are infantile, ignorant, ludicrous ramblings of incoherence.

        Best wishes,
        Bob

      • DaveH

        Karolyn, I don’t get the pertinence of your comment.

      • Vicki

        eddie47d says:
        “Poppycock Harold Olsen and Paul Wells! Didn’t you notice how much you run your mouths around here.”

        Listened to yourself recently?

        eddie47d: “Such hypocrites! You have free speech and use it all the time yet make a lame attempt to say you don’t !”

        Are you saying that the ACLU is lame?
        http://www.aclu.org/free-speech

        About free speech.
        The plan
        http://www.ibtimes.com/obama-doctrine-censuring-free-speech-798541

        The law (already enacted)
        http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2012/mar/15/can-the-secret-service-tell-you-to-shut-up/

        Just one of many as can be seen in the ACLU list above.

        Eddie’s low credibility takes another hit (from actual facts).

      • Karolyn

        Dave – You more or less said I have nothing to back up my assertions after I posted about visiting sites with opposisng views. (suggesting I only visit msm sites). I posted a skeptic site filled with links to opposing views of those held by many here.

      • DaveH

        Aren’t you the one who was pushing the Thrive video, Karolyn?

      • DaveH

        Never mind, I answered my own question:
        http://personalliberty.com/2012/01/04/coming-in-2012-target-tehran/#comment-502839

        So, given that you were pushing the video, are you now questioning your own former position?
        Or maybe, you’ve just taken up talking to yourself. Or maybe, you are trying to upstage Eddie?

      • eddie47d

        Jukebox; Martial Law is something Nixon loved and G Bush encouraged so your pants are on fire again!

      • eddie47d

        Vickie is another one for she is practicing her 1st Amendment rights in her post. Then tries as says it isn’t so!

      • Kate8

        Good grief, eddie. The whole idea of the Second Amendment is to be able to keep government at bay.

        It’s already too lopsided… We actually need to have at least equal weaponry to what the government possesses. Otherwise, we may as well have none.

        What are you going to do when the gestapo come bursting through your door? You don’t think they will?

        The truth is, the goons in power have no use for liberals except during this phase of taking over a nation. You are tools, edduh. As soon as you are no longer of use, you will be among the first to go. These people despise ideologues, and have no intention of doing anything for the “good” of humanity. Quite the contrary.

        If you are successful in your endeavors to assist the NWO’s takeover in America, the irony is that the first blood that flows will be mingled with your own.

        Get a clue, people.

        https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=WcAPJ-kn8Vs

        Take a look at some real sobering truths, ed. Watch this and then come back and talk about gun control.

      • Karolyn

        Yes, Dave, there are aspects of Thrive that I do agree with.

      • http://naver samurai

        It seems that ed does not understand that not only does it keep the government from being very oppressive to the people, it was also put in the Constitution to keep the government from taking our right to bear arms from us. BTW, all men between 18-60, in good physical and mental health, and that own firearms are the well regulated militia in each state. I guess that leaves ed out as he is more than 60 years old. Here is something for them to read:

        http://www.impeachobamacampaign.com/gun-control-or-violence-control/

        FOR GOD AND COUNTRY! 하나님하고 나라를 위해서!

        You need both love of country and faith in God to be a patriot.

        “As to Jesus of Nazareth, my opinion of whom you particularly desire, I think the system of morals and his religion, as he left them to us, is the best the world ever saw, or is likely to see.”

        Benjamin Franklin

      • Mike in MI

        Sammy – There’s another drawback besides being over 60 years old:

        eddafor70 would never be permitted membership in something “Well Regulated”.

      • http://naver samurai

        D’oh! :-) :-) FOR GOD AND COUNTRY! 하나님하고 나라를 위해서!

        You need both love of country and faith in God to be a patriot.

        “I would probably have to say yes, that that Constitution established the United States of America as a Christian nation.”

        John McCain

      • macgyver1948

        samurai… Please educate us all. Where in the Constitution does it mention “Christianity”? Were the founders wrong when they spoke of “Separations Of Church And State” but really did not see the need for it? There is so much need for it and when people say what you say it shows all the more for the need.

        I know the Founders were mostly Christians but they knew there can in no way be any religion or any denomination dictating law because if there were there would be no need for or meaning to FREEDOM OF RELIGION. It would apply only to those with the power in favor of their religion.

        Think again in more of an American way before you say things like “that that Constitution established the United States of America as a Christian nation” which contradicts Liberty for all.

      • MLR

        macgyver1948
        I think maybe the seperation of church and state, was more for protection of the state from religion, than of religion from the state.

      • ZAR

        The term “Separation of Church and State” is not in the Constitution. The First Amendment is what its usually based upon, but if you honestly read the First Amendment, the idea that its there to protect the State from Religion becomes daft. In the same sentence it says Congress shall make no law regarding the Establishment of Religion, it also says they shall not abridge free Speech or Freedom of the press, or the Right to assemble. By the logic you employ, then, the Government enacted all of these to protect itself from Free Speech, a free Press, and free assembly.

        if you think the First Amendment as not to protect the government form our freedom of Speech, press, and assembly, but to protect us from Government control of our speech, press, and assembly, then you cant logically argue that the Religion bit is to protect the sate. its not only the same clause, but the same sentence.

      • macgyver1948

        ZAR… I do not think “Separation Of Church And State” belongs in with the First Amendment but it does belong in with “Freedom Of Religion” because it more so protects us all. No Church should be able to influence law making because no church should be able to dictate their doctrines on anyone but for those who chose to be part of that church. Would you enjoy being told your religious choice was wrong and you have to do it how another church sees fit? The Founders knew this so well and that is why we have Freedom Of Religion but the protection does not go far enough in the Constitution without “Separation Of Church And State”.

        Who is right, you or “The Constituti­on is not an instrument for the government to restrain the people; it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government – lest it come to dominate our lives and interests.­”- Patrick Henry -?

        The Constitution was written for us and not for Government. And Freedom Of Speech and Freedom Of Religion are not the same or they would not be in there separately. The same goes for FOS and SOCS. The Founders rarely made mistakes but not including “Separation Of Church And State” was one. We wouldn’t need to be discussing that if it wasn’t needed. Both pushing ones religious beliefs on others or denying others their religious beliefs in favor of “ours” shows the need.

      • ZAR

        I don’t really think you understand what I’m saying. I never suggested that people should be forced into one Religion or another, nor did I suggest that it’d be Right to do so.

        Instead, I simply noted that the term Separation Of Church and State is not in the Constitution, then proceeded to say that it is irrational to think the First Amendment was written to protect the State from Religion. It wasn’t. It was written to protect Religion from the State. America’s Founders didn’t want too much Governmental Interference in anything, be it commerce, private affairs or Religion. The First Amendment is about protecting Freedom of Religion, Speech, Press, and Assembly from Government intervention, it is not about protecting the Government from Religion whilst granting protection of the other things listed from the Government. There all in one sentence, and it simply can’t be read that way.

        Incidentally, having a State Church is not the same thing as having a Church your forced to go to. Look at the much reviled Church of England. No one is forced to be Anglican in the UK. No one was forced to be Anglican in 1776 in the UK. No one was forced to be Anglican even in the Time of the Pilgrims. State Churches aren’t in general impositional. Usually its the other way round, the Government dictates what the Church believes, no the Church what the Government will do.

      • macgyver1948

        ZAR… Ok we may misunderstand each other to some extent. The Founders would misunderstand you too I think. Freedom Of Religion is in the Constitution separately for a special reason. I never said “Separation Of Church And Sate” is in but instead say it should be considering how religious fanatics are insisting their ways even today. Also we saw in the Republican nominations debates there were some Christian candidates who were not so accepting of the another candidates form of Christianity as though they were superior in God’s eyes. If there is debate or disputes between same religion’s different denominations then think how it could be with totally different religions. This is why we need the protection of “Separation Of Church And Sate” in the Constitution along with Freedom Of Religion.

        No religion should dominate and very much not influence law because it would most likely be in their favor. Not in a free country should we have a “State Church” or even the hinting of a state church influence in law making. Where would the infringing end if we do once it starts?

      • ZAR

        I don’t’ think the Founders would have misunderstood me at all. My post was clear enough, you just filtered it via a presumption.

        There is no such thing as a nation in which Religion plays no role in the laws. In the same vein, there is no such thing as a person who has no Religion. We often say that people aren’t Religious, but if you look they really are, and everyone knows this. We just call it “Worldview” now and limit Religion to belief in a god of some sort. However, in practical terms, modern Secularism is really just a Religion in its own Right. Why should we run our society on Secularist values and Secularist morals? Who gets to decide what is and is not the Secular position on things?

        In reality, Secularism has morphed from neutrality in theological concerns, and into a Philosophy in its own Right, with its own moral codes, its own social demands, and its own perspective on how we should live and who we are. These beliefs are the same beliefs Religions pose, and I see no reason why Secularism ought be imposed on all of society. In fact, I find it hypocritical. If it is wrong to impose, say, Catholicism or Anglicanism, then it is just as wrong to impose Secularism.

        In a truly Free society, people would be permitted to engage in policy debates, even including their beliefs, and yes this includes Religion. While one Religion should not be imposed onto unwilling persons, we must be mindful that peoples Religion is not separable from how they see the world, for a Religion is by definition how one see’s the world. It is irrational to think that one should not bring ones Religion into legislation. It’s impossible not to.

        Why should Christians be excluded from the public discussion in a society in which they live? Why should Muslims or Jews for that matter? Why should we instead allow the Religion of Secularism to dominate? Why not let everyone bring their beliefs to the table and discuss them fairly?

        I see negotiation and compromise between the various Religious views superior to enforcing one Religion onto all others and calling it Secularism, and insisting tis not a Religion.

      • macgyver1948

        ZAR… I was more so expressing my feelings but I didn’t mean to offend you by saying the Founders wouldn’t understand you. I probably wouldn’t be so understood by them either because, as I stated in a previous post to you, we really do not know enough about them.

        When men form governments they bleed into it their feelings and beliefs so there would be religious influence in how the proceed if they are at least somewhat religious. I am only saying I believe the Founders felt it important to protect the religious beliefs of each citizen and that is why they do not get religious specific in the Constitution, not even with their own. This is not the case in many older governments. The Romans, for example, had huge Pagan influence in their governing because that is what they wanted.

        You say you “find it hypocritical. If it is wrong to impose, say, Catholicism or Anglicanism, then it is just as wrong to impose Secularism”. I so much disagree with this. I feel it would be wrong to impose the concepts of any religion on anyone and secularism, the indifference to or the exclusion of religion so we each can choose for ourselves, is vital to the very definition and soul of Liberty and Freedom. Would you want to be told you have to be circumcised for religious reasons? Would you want to be told Sunday is a wrong day to choose as a Sabbath day but instead Saturday, the 7th day of the week, is what God wants? I do not want to be told that Jesus is the Messiah for me when my Bible says the nature of demi-god or any entity that is not God is worthy of worship. I will not want to tell you Jesus is not your Messiah or that he is not worthy of your worship if he is for you. When I see how you structured your sentence, saying you “find it hypocritical … I see you saying in that it would be ok for government to impose their religious beliefs on us and for us to ignore or forget our own. Is this correct?

        We all have the right to include what we believe in discussions but not to allow our religious beliefs to be infused into law or in insisted ventures of proselytizing or conversion attempts. I say this because since I moved here to the mid west of the US from New Jersey, to the so-called Bible Belt, I have been met often enough with those kinds of attempts with bursts of anger because I refused to agree or convert. I agree that they should believe as they do but not to impose it on others after they receive a “no thank you” the first time. This is why it cannot influence law and must be left up to each of us to decide what we believe. All to often in history people were forced to choose to conform and be absorbed or be killed. Many invading nations did this and many of my ancestors in Europe were punished for being who they were religiously. Conform or else.

        You last paragraph in this thread “I see negotiation and compromise between the various Religious views superior to enforcing one Religion onto all others and calling it Secularism, and insisting tis not a Religion”.

        Discussion yes, for academic purposes, but what do you mean by “negotiation and compromise”? Do you mean if I cannot accept Jesus as my savor and lord, as per my current religion, I must if that is what the majority and/or law dictate? To be absorbed? Never gonna happen so please explain what you mean. I do not want to impose any of my beliefs on you so why would I allow the government or any religious organization/people to do that to me?

      • ZAR

        You really aren’t following what I’m saying so Ill repeat it.

        Secularism is not indifference towards Religion. Secularism,as it is used now, is a Religion in its own Right. The reason I oppose it is because there is a Secular Morality and Secular perspective on things, that is every bit as wrong to impose onto others as would a Catholic or Lutheran or Methodist View. Secularism stopped being about neutrality in Religious concerns a long Time ago, and nowadays Secularism is simply another Region. We just don’t call it that commonly.

        Why should anyone be forced to follow secular morals and lead a secular lifestyle in Public? And who gets to decide what is and is not Secular?

        I’m not arguing for the imposition of one Religion onto all persons, I’m arguing against imposing Secularism onto all persons because Secularism is itself a Religion. Not everyone agrees with Secularisms dogmas and doctrines. Why force people to act against their own consciences and desires based on a Secularists vision of how society should run?

      • macgyver1948

        ZAR… I saw that before when you mentioned Secularism but I was going by the definition and I wondered what you were saying, I did miss it before. I never saw the word used just like that before. I see now what you are saying, sorry about that. I agree with you if the word is used as you mean it here. One religion substituted for any others is the same, called Secularism or Catholicism or Judaism.

      • macgyver1948

        MLR… If I remember right the Founders wanted to leave “Separation Of Church And State” up to the states but they were very much for it. Personally I feel, considering what has been happening since the Founders time, they made a mistake by not including it in The Constitution. I agree with you when you say “the seperation of church and state, was more for protection of the state from religion, than of religion from the state” just like the Constitution itself is to protect the people from the government. Actually it was to protect each of us, not just the state, from organizations such as government and religion. For example we should remember why and from whom the Pilgrims felt the need to run from England and maybe more so why the Founders feared about King George in regard to his religious beliefs and demands. I think those who claim this is a Christian country seem to not realize what the Founders wanted in this regard.

      • ZAR

        I can understand bringing up the Pilgrims myth, but not King George. King George the Third didn’t make Religious Demands on the Colonies, and in fact was for Religious Liberty. Indeed, when Massachusetts wanted to impose on a town of Baptists an Anglican Minister to be supported by their Taxes, instead of a Baptist one, the town appealed to the King. Despite our imagining him as an unrelenting tyrant, and your post making him into a Religious Tyrant who demanded all obey his Church, the fact is, he actually sided with the Baptists and said that no one should be forced to support a Minister not of their choosing.

        King George the Third was not really a Tyrant in Religious Matters, or really a Tyrant at all.

        As for the Pilgrims, if we truly remember why they “had t flee England”, we’d see them less a Heroes. The story we’re all told and that’s engrained in us from Childhood that everyone was forced to go to the Church of England, and they didn’t want to, so left to worshipful God according tot he dictates of their conscience, isn’t True. The Pilgrims were Puritains who wanted the Church of England to change its form and beliefs. No one made them attend the Church of England, as Nonconformist Churches existed in England and Elizabeth the first had already granted Toleration for other Churches long before they came long. They wanted to force the Church to confirm to their wills, they weren’t trying to simply worship outside of it.

        The Pilgrims also weren’t all about Religious Liberty. The Plymouth colony didn’t allow you to vote in community affairs unless you belong to their Church and were am member in good standing. It wasn’t till Roger Smith founded Rhode Island that Religious Liberty was founded in New England, and he was a Baptist, not a Puritan. And he got his Charter from the horrible, evil, oppressive Monarchs himself. The Pilgrims were not really that great.

        So to recap, the Pilgrims were not forced to flee England for Religious Liberty, nor did King George make Religious Demands.

      • macgyver1948

        ZAR… What King George are you talking about? The Founders were not happy with his ways. And you seem to have a different history for the Pilgrims too on some levels. Ok, good for you. But who ever does it there cannot be specific religious influence in a free society and that is really my point.

      • ZAR

        The American Revolution was ostentatiously over Tax issues and a few other Political concerns. it matters little that America’s Founders didn’t like king Georges ways, since we’re discussing Religion, and none of their complaints against him in the Declaration of Independence or any other writing mentioned him imposing Religious standards on anyone.

        That said, most of the objections against the King they did offer were really Acts of Parliament. King George was not an absolute Monarch, but the Rebels didn’t want to anger Parliament as hey had supporters in it, so just blamed the King. never buy into propaganda written in a Revolution as Gospel truth.

        As for the Pilgrims, my different history is confirmed by Historians, both American and non-American. Its fairly easy to find the real story and even several “myth buster” websites will tell you as it really was. My history is different from the Myth we hear every year at Thanksgiving or that we are told as Children, but it is the actual Historical account.

        But one mistake I did make. it was not Roger Smith that founded Rhode island, but Roger Williams. With apologies.

      • macgyver1948

        ZAR… I agree that much of the issues for the Revolution were tax based but there were others. The famed Boston Tea Party, nothing to do with todays Tea Party, was about the protest by those of our colonists, over collected taxes not going to England as they were meant to but instead went into the pockets of wealthy business owners and the politicians they paid to make that happen. I suppose that was the start of the political/large corporate corruption connection in the new world. This is something the Founders often warned us about and is a huge problem today in many ways because we either choose to forget those warnings or we just don’t know about them.

        Yeah, this far away King George was not the big issue but being in charge he was the brunt of the blame. This is much the same as those who hate Obama today blame him for many of the woes we have encountered since the Revolutionary way, I guess. The then Congress, called the British Parliament, were the main problems then, as is our Congress these days (I bet that Parliament then also had a very low citizens rating) but as we seem to agree it is just easier to blame the guy on the throne and allow Congress do their business as usual.

        I wont argue with you about the Pilgrims but there is so much written concerning religious intolerance throughout history as well as why the Pilgrims left England in their time. A long time ago I began believing history was not only written by the victor of things but also according to how the individual historian wanted future generations to believe so who really knows. A variation to our theme, just as an example, is the differences in historical accounts between early English sailors to Japan and the Japanese versions of those visits.

        I suppose we can discuss forever whether the Founders wanted to make America a Christian nation or not but the real answers would elude us because there are no real answers that are available, only variations of opinions. With that said it would also depend on the historian we choose to read, as I suggest above, on this issue. We can suggest many different reference sites but it would depend on how much credibility we each would give to that site and its author(s). Below is an example I find interesting but who knows, it is the authors views but he does bring up some interesting food for thought and debate. Maybe many of us over look the fact that many of the Founders were influenced by their Christian beliefs because there is no mention of Christianity in The Constitution but God is. But it must mean something to them to deliberately leave out the word Christian in any form. As this author points out, if you read it, Religious anything was wanted to be left to the states, again why I think “Separation Of Church and State” was left out but the founders did discuss it. What do you think?
        http://www.heritage.org/research/lecture/2011/06/did-america-have-a-christian-founding

      • ZAR

        Even according to the Tea partiers themselves, the Boston tea Party was not about Businessmen gaining wealth rather than tax money being sent to England.

        below is from Columbia University.

        Boston Tea Party
        1773. In the contest between British Parliament and the American colonists before the Revolution, Parliament, when repealing the Townshend Acts, had retained the tea tax, partly as a symbol of its right to tax the colonies, partly to aid the financially embarrassed East India Company. The colonists tried to prevent the consignees from accepting taxed tea and were successful in New York and Philadelphia. At Charleston the tea was landed but was held in government warehouses. At Boston, three tea ships arrived and remained unloaded but Gov. Thomas Hutchinson refused to let the ships leave without first paying the duties. A group of indignant colonists, led by Samuel Adams, Paul Revere, and others, disguised themselves as Native Americans, boarded the ships on the night of Dec. 16, 1773, and threw the tea into the harbor. In reply Parliament passed the Boston Port Bill (see Intolerable Acts).
        See study by B. W. Labaree (1964).

        History is not written by the victors, but those who write, btu often Historians do tend to twist thigns to get peopel to see thigns their way, on that we agree. Still, the Revolutionary War wasnot all abotu a Tyrant king agaisnt Noble Rebles. in fact, the colonies really weren’t under oppression at all.

      • macgyver1948

        ZAR… Thanks for the Columbia U version of the real tea party thing, I did know that before.

        The East India Company was a very greedy English company and they were guilty of many sins, including buying the favors of our representatives. It is a usual common thing today too. I would have joined that tea party if I were there.

        The king was a scape goat but he was a small issue. He was to far away from here for him to really care about us but again Parliament was an issue. We do seem to agree on some things.

      • ZAR

        The East india Company wasnt greedy though. They provided cheap tea that was higher wuality than the illegally smuggled Tea.

        I know we want the Revolutionaries to be heroes but the tea Party was simply a criminal axct done by a mob over a reasonable taxation they had alreayd agreed to.

      • Mike in MI

        K88 -
        Jeezey Pete, that video says a lot about Socialism at its logical extents. You wonder how those firing squads could stand and shoot and shoot and shoot without getting nauseated or just generally overcome in those close quarters. The smoke, the bloody, sweaty body smells, no doubt people defecating and peeing themselves out of fear, the tortures…the willing participant perpetrators. It says something about the “basic goodness of humanity”.
        And here we areafter raising a generation of that sort who have no moral base or “core”.
        Yet, our contingent of libs here seem to think the world’s in its normal course…GHAAGH-H-h.

      • http://naver samurai

        First of all Mac, the quote I posted was said by John McCain. If you have a problem or question, then talk to him about it. Second, if you look at the Preamble of the Constitution, you will see the statement, “Secure the blessings of liberty” written. If our liberties are blessings, there has to be a divine being to be able to bless us with these liberties. Government sure can’t do it. Sheesh! That was easy. Why would you attack God being in the Constitution if you are Jewish? Don’t we both worship the same God? There is also no mentioning of separation of church and state in the Constitution. Why do you join the ranks of Jeffy and other 5th columners on this subject?
        Here is another lie by the libtards/progtards:

        http://www.impeachobamacampaign.com/left-claims-its-for-the-children-to-nullify-second-amendment/

        FOR GOD AND COUNTRY! 하나님하고 나라를 위해서!

        You need both love of country and faith in God to be a patriot.

        “Can the liberties of a nation be secure when we have removed a conviction that these liberties are the gift of God? That they are not to be violated but with his wrath?”

        Thomas Jefferson

      • macgyver1948

        samurai… First of all samurai I did see where you were quoting John McCain. Secondly I do not care because you used it as though you agree. Third, “divine being”, which should be capitalized if you are referring to God, from the Preamble was the founders speaking of God and not of any particular religion. There is a huge difference between God and any religion, one is just a specific way of relating to God (otherwise why have all the different religions and more so, why the denominations? Which ones are right if there are such differences and arguments between them?). When you are as blindly wrong as you are it would be “Sheesh! That was easy” for you. No Religion, just talking about God in the Constitution and its Preamble.

        I did not attack God in the Constitution or in any other way and for you to say I did is what makes a person who does not know what he is talking about. I was only pointing out the fact that religion is not there. The Founders wanted moral influence in our lives and not any specific religion other than the choice we each make for ourselves. That is Freedom Of Religion since you do not understand that. It also means Freedom From Religion so do not contradict the Constitution by saying this is a Christan Country. Please do not tell me what I am doing when I am not doing what you claim. “Sheesh! That was easy”, LOL.

        By the way, what does being Jewish have to do with it especially since I wasn’t attacking God? As far as I know we do worship the same God but in different ways and I will not allow you to inflict your ways on me. I will however defend your ways for you. That too is real acceptance of Liberty. Liberty is meaningless if you want it only how you see it.

        If you feel the need to call others 5th columners, or whatever else you make up, then you should accept being called whatever we want to call you. I am not a 5th columnist and I bet Jeff has his own views on that. I bet many of us know “Separation Of Church And State” is not in the Constitution, for some reason the Founders felt the states should deal with it, but I feel it should be in with Freemon Of Religion and people like you go on proving why it should.

        Logistically speaking do you really feel it would encourage those who lean Left to view the link you offer if you offer it with “Here is another lie by the libtards/progtards”? You have got to be kidding if you think we wouldn’t go in wondering how much Right Wing propaganda it would be? Where is the credibility going in based on how you present it? Good going samurai, you really show you have that Right Wing mentality and no understanding of logic and people. I am really encouraged to check out the links you suggest after the insulting ways you present them.

        Your last line, a quote from Thomas Jefferson. Here too he is talking about God and not any specific religion. Do you even understand how to use a quote to support your positions? I wonder. And please do not compare or associate our religions in an attempt to prove your point unless you want the discuss the differences and contradictions between them. It is those differences and contradictions we need to protect and why we need “Separation Of Church And State” added to the constitution. The Founders knew this (except that they left it up to the states to protect us all in this), why don’t you?

      • Mike in MI

        Muck1948 – Too deep in it to keep your nose above, eh?
        Hey, why don’t you ever consider the fact that the Liberals’/ Retrogressives’ position is a religious stance. It is called the Humanist religion. It is a codified philosophical position that has a set of doctrines and rules about what humanity should be doing in regards to those rules. SCOTUS, I believe, adjudicated that their system of thought has all the earmarks of any other religion. That would be fine with me if that’s what they want to believe (they have the right)…BUT
        They want to make it the primary guiding principle of the nation – in place of other things where they think they have an interest.
        That is as much a ‘separation of church and state’ issue as anything you fear might look like Christianity – that you demand to have replaced. Not just removed but replaced by your man-derived system of failed propositions.
        Get out of my face with your silly, selfish, self-important garbage.

      • macgyver1948

        Mike in MI … Well, maybe because I do not see the Liberal side as a religious thing but it does include protecting religious rights for all. So what imaginary “fact” on our part are you making up and referring to?

        I am not against Christianity as you allude to but my points seem to some how guide you to invoke your little boy anger. Nice of you to not understand my intentions and meanings but instead decide for me what I mean. You seem so typical of the-angry-misinformed-by-your-leaders Right to be so childishly insulting in your tantrums. Who the hell would want to be close enough to you to be in your face? Enjoy your opinions, misguided as they are, because you are entitled to them. On this site all views and leanings are encouraged by Bob Livingston so this is not your one sided/(only our views allowed) kind of site.

    • Larry K.

      obama will have a hard time getting good people to give up their guns, what’s he going to do, put over a million gun owners in prison for not giving up their guns? he’s going to have trouble if he does and i mean real trouble.

      • Capitalist at Birth

        What do you think the ammunition being purchased by the Social Security Administration and FEMA are for? Have you ever visited a Social Security Administration office? Most, if not all have armed guards that are not only not friendly, they are outright hostile.

      • Capitalist at Birth

        They will have more guns and ammunition. If you resist you will be murdered.

      • eddie47d

        Capitalist at Birth: You don’t have the “cojones” to tell the truth and rely on fear and loathing! Your threats mean nothing to me and I won’t swallow your bad-ass games. (9:56)

      • Mike in MI

        Larry K -
        Go above and view that link that Kate8 cites on her 12/27 5:04 pm post.
        Then tell us if you still think the masses won’t just “go along, hoping to get along” or get swept up in some sort of evil oppressive (whatever it is ) “thing” that takes over people during crises.

      • Kate8

        Capitalist – A couple of thoughts about the ammo purchases come to mind:

        First, there are over 100,000 NATO troops here waiting for instructions. Are they here to do what many in our own military and law enforcement have pledged NOT to do against the American people?

        Second, we have the elite inciting revolution and chaos, and they, themselves, will need protection against a lot of really angry citizens.

        There is no doubt that they are up to no good and mean business. They are thinking that our days are numbered, there is no doubt that they are intentionally provoking us.

      • macgyver1948

        KATE*… Crap, if you are right about the NATO troops being here I would have to go military again and fight along side of our military and our citizens against them. If our “representatives” do that to us they deserve to be our enemies. But I choose to hope you are wrong.

        I too believe we are being intentionally provoked, as you say, but I believe it is by one side of the aisle more so than the other and still hoping your thinking is exaggerated. That is because that side is more so controlled by the wealthy and the big corporations but either way we have things to correct. I hope we can soon.

      • Right Brain Thinker

        Kate8 says: December 27, 2012 at 11:34 pm
        “First, there are over 100,000 NATO troops here waiting for instructions”.

        Could you tell us more about this?
        From what countries are these Nato troops?
        Where are they located in the U.S.?

      • Robert Smith

        Kate8 won’t say anything real because the claim is false.

        Rob

    • Jeff

      Your logic is unassailable. But your premise is utter B.S. as is your conclusion. Go play with your big gun. It’ll make you feel like a man. But don’t be surprised if that gun bites you in the ass long before you get to use it defending your castle against the forces of evil.

      • Vicki

        Over 100 MILLION guns failed to bite their owners in the ass today nor any day of their owners lives.

        ~2.5 MILLION guns defended their owners EVERY year of every life.
        http://www.guncite.com/gun_control_gcdguse.html (include links to disagreement)

        About 100 thousand or about 0.1% of the 100 Million guns bit someone.
        http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2011/04/24/accidental-v-intentional-fatal/
        (This link does not provide info on who the owner was vs the victim.)

        Now what.

      • Bill

        Jeff,
        I like playing with my big guns, but when the get a little loud I go back to my trusted 9mm

      • http://naver samurai

        I see Jeefy’s problem, he’s a sissy. He’s one of those bleeding heart cases. Here is something that talks about gun violence escalating when there is gun controll installed:

        http://www.impeachobamacampaign.com/gun-control-actually-increases-gun-violence/

        FOR GOD AND COUNTRY! 하나님하고 나라를 위해서!

        You need both love of country and faith in God to be a patriot.

        “Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom, must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it.”

        Thomas Paine

        *Notice he makes a reference to a blesser.

      • Mike in MI

        jeff -
        Pretty sure you think you know how and what runs the “mass-mind” aren’t you? You’ve lived in a stinking cocoon all your life, never been really challenged by much of anything, never ventured to extend yourself or been forced to deal with things when you couldn’t run to your little “safety cave”.
        But, you’ve got everything all combed through and ginned out,… you think. He – He, Sheee it. Toad.

      • Robert Smith

        Samurai says: “You need both love of country and faith in God to be a patriot.”

        Nope. You can check out: http://militaryatheists.org/atheists-in-foxholes/

        One doesn’t need to worship your brutal god (killed everyone in a floot except Noah and his kin… Lots of kids in the world at that time I’ll bet).

        Rob

    • Myava Buchanan

      Yes, I agree with Harold Olsen, Big Government is NOT part of our USA Constitution. The U.S. Constitution gave us the rights to bear arms. given to us by Our Founding Fathers, Benjamin Franklin is the one of Founding Fathers. It did not say what kind or specific guns that we can buy and owns and it only said “The Rights to Bear Arms” so that mean any type of guns are illegal. such as Bushmaster AR-15 assault-type weapons with high capacity magazines a glock 10 millimeter and more.
      It’s not the guns that are hurting innocent people. It’s not the assault weapon or the high powered rifles or the hand guns that people are carry. It’s people that are distrubed that have that want to hurt people that’s doing it. so guns are not the problem. it’s people’s making bad choice. Obama is not from U.S. and He hate America. He want to have full control of America. We must not allow him.

      • eddie47d

        I didn’t know Ben Franklin carried a Bushmaster? I do know alot of you were masters to Bush’s policies though.

      • Vicki

        Myava Buchanan writes:
        “The U.S. Constitution gave us the rights to bear arms.”

        God gave us the right. The Constitution is a contract with government to PROTECT that right. A contract that the current agents of government are in default of.

      • Vicki

        eddie47d says:
        “I didn’t know Ben Franklin carried a Bushmaster? ”

        Bushmaster Hadn’t been invented yet. Ol’e ben likely did carry the equivalent rifle for the time. (And eddie wonders why his credibility here is only just above that of flashy.)

      • eddie47d

        I knew that Vickie! I thought you had me figured out bur apparently not! The sarcasm must have went over your head.

      • JC

        eddie47d says:
        December 27, 2012 at 12:50 pm
        I didn’t know Ben Franklin carried a Bushmaster? I do know alot of you were masters to Bush’s policies though.
        ______________________________________________________________
        Twisted…pointless…freak!

      • Joe H

        eddie,
        If perhaps, you used that pea brain for something besides controlling the echo in your skull, you would know Franklin carried the most advanced weapon of the time, A musket. His personal weapon was equal to that of the military.

      • Robert Smith

        Vicki says about guns in America: “God gave us the right. ”

        Nope. “WE THE PEOPLE…”

        Please quit lying about what makes the United States of America Constitution.

        You “claim” to support it, but then defalut to the brutal god that killed all the kids in Sodom except Lott’s, who he had sex with.

        Sheesh…

        Rob

  • JeffH

    The magic of gun control – Newark’s Democratic mayor, Cory Booker, raised some eyebrows by describing the post-Newtown media mania for gun control as a “false debate,” on last Sunday’s edition of ABC’s “This Week.”

    What frustrates me about this debate is it’s a false debate. It’s a false debate.

    “This is a convenient trick to try to divide our country more. Most of us in America, including gun owners, agree on things that would stop the kind of carnage that’s going on in cities all over America.”

    “I’m tired of the political debates,” he added. “They’re not necessary. I’m tired of the ideological positions. We don’t even need to visit them. Let’s stick to the pragmatic center where all Americans believe the same thing …“I’m not afraid of law-abiding citizens who buy a gun,” he said.

    “Criminals are killing people,” the mayor added. “Not law-abiding gun owners.”

    Booker’s comment about the deliberately divisive nature of the gun-control debate is more explosive, coming as it does from a prominent Democrat mayor poised for a run at the Senate. He’s going even further than calling gun-control zealots – almost all of whom are Democrats, or allied politically with Booker’s party – silly or misguided. He’s calling them mendacious, dishonest, and ultimately dangerous.

    One major driving force behind the media enthusiasm for new gun control laws: they believe laws are magic. The government “addresses” problems by passing laws. For Big Government enthusiasts, there is talismanic, supernatural power behind these laws. If you don’t support empowering government to deal with a problem, you don’t “care” about the problem. By extension, all of society’s problems are caused by excessive liberty, which is abused by dopey citizens out there in flyover country. The answer to every problem involves making the government larger. Dissenters are troglodytes who dare to stand in the way of “progress.”

    Most of the cries for new gun-control laws, in the wake of the Newtown massacre, amount to extending the laws that didn’t work in Connecticut until they apply from coast to coast. Many of these demands are based upon purely cosmetic or ideological considerations, such as the perpetual wumpus hunt against “assault weapons,” whose precise nature no one ever seems to define, beyond “they look scary.” Nothing less than the outright confiscation of all guns would have done more than inconvenience the Newtown murderer, who could still have perpetuated unspeakable carnage in a “gun-free zone” filled with children if he had come equipped with nothing but a couple of revolvers and speed-loaders (or, for that matter, weapons other than firearms.)

    Because this faith in Big Government is magical, it is immune to the application of firm, logical standards, and quickly grows annoyed with them. Pointing out the actual track record of gun control laws at “controlling” crime enrages gun-control zealots, as does mentioning the far stronger correlation between concealed-carry laws and reduced crime.

    The strange thing about the Left’s faith in legal magic is that some truly massive laws don’t seem to have supernatural auras. Liberals angrily deny that welfare programs have the kind of culture-shaping energy that symbolic gun control laws crackle with, even though social programs command thousands of times more power and money than gun control programs do. When the State writes billion-dollar programs in boldface, there is supposedly no great psychic effect on the populace, but when it scribbles fine print about controlling “assault weapons,” we are assured that the “gun culture” will change overnight.
    -Human Events
    -John Hayward
    -Dec 2012

    • JUKEBOX

      There is an old saying that History Repeats Itself. The laws for Prohibition in the 1920′s did not stop people from drinking, nor did it stop the brewing of moonshine in Appalachia. You simply cannot not legislate morals, only decree punishment for not obeying the law.

      • JeffH

        JUKEBOX, Amen to that!

      • Vicki

        Sometimes those repeating loops of history overlap. The war on (some) drugs.

      • Kate8

        JeffH – Don’t know if any of you have seen this yet, but it left me changed. You cannot watch this and be the same afterward.

        https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=WcAPJ-kn8Vs

        As Stalin, Lenin and Hitler rounded up millions of (primarily Christians, but no one talks of that) of people, doing unspeakable things to them prior to putting them to death (the ones who simply got a bullet to the head were the lucky ones), one thing screamed to be observed: these people were completely unarmed and had no way to defend themselves against their government.

        Not one person was able to fire a shot in defense of themselves or their children.

        Anyone who advocates any kind of gun control should really watch this video. All of the leftists who shill on this site…hey. You are working for the exact same groups who brought communism and death to hundreds of millions in the 20th century alone, and are using exactly the same methods of convincing the people it’s for their own good. Um hum. Don’t think for one moment they plan a different outcome this time.
        ———-
        Trolls…

        You shills are complicit, because if you are not part of the solution, you are part of the problem. I hope you are prepared to have blood on your hands.

        How easily people sell their countrymen out for a few bucks.

        The Bible tells us that in these times, men’s hearts will have waxed cold…

      • JeffH

        Kate8, I’ve watched several of the horrific documentaries that contained never seen before graphic footage…it is difficult for some to ever admit that the holocaust ever existed or that any man is capable of these atrocities against their fellow man.

        My step dad was a young Pollock living in Warsaw. The Nazi’s seperated his family and took him to a prison work camp in Norway in 1942. He hardly ever spoke of what went on except when he and his Polish pal would sit at the table drinking vodka…that’s when I listened the most, when they got a little loose. All of his front teeth, top & bottom, were kicked out by the Nazis. He had false teeth. I came to understand why he was so intimidating to most that knew him and unafraid of anything…especially for a guy that was barely 5’5″ tall.
        He saw it all and survived.

        Hope you had a wonderful Christmas.

      • Kate8

        JeffH – Me, too. This one went further in that it is geared toward understanding the forces at play today in America, and how the atrocities of the past were all part of the progression of the overall plan for world dominance. Names of players are named, so we understand that these people never left us. They are the very ones who are orchestrating the events of today, and who are moving to disarm America toward their final endgame.

        It has a really wonderful ending. It is an offering of hope, really. It’s wonderfully done, and puts the events of the past century into perspective, showing us exactly what we need to see in order that we know how to break free now…before it’s too late.

      • Kate8

        JeffH – The other thing that struck me is how many willing participants there are in these genocides… those who are willing to carry them out. That is the most unthinkable thing to me.

        And you know… those who shill for these psychos on these blogsites are really not much different, as they are willing to play their part in setting up the slaughter. Some people will do anything for money, and have no regard or remorse.

      • JeffH

        Kate8, you’re right. I’m pretty sure that most of them, if they could, would like to see the real constitutional patriots locked up or executed for treason, damn the Constitution and damned due process.

      • Jeff

        Simply insane. I know, I know. Troll, blah, blah. Do yourself a favor and learn some new words. Now say something nasty in your native tongue.

      • http://naver samurai

        Here is something for all of us to watch:

        http://www.impeachobamacampaign.com/americans-will-never-surrender-their-second-amendment-rights/

        FOR GOD AND COUNTRY! 하나님하고 나라를 위해서!

        You need both love of country and faith in God to be a patriot.

        “A people without a heritage are easily persuaded.”

        Karl Marx

      • Joe H

        kate8,
        I watched your piece and I agree that ALL libs should watch it, but will they have the cranial capacity to understand the message behind it? there are examples of guns saving lives DAILY yet they still scream for gun control. There are millions upon millions of legal gun owners like myself that have owned guns for years, started shooting at the age of 12, and the only time they have ever hurt a breathing human being is in the employ of good ole Uncle Sugar! Now I wish them to tell me how disarming ME is going to make ANYTHING safer.

      • Jeff

        Disarming you will make YOU safer in your own house. It will make me safer in that your stupid gun won’t be stolen or taken by your slightly unstable grandson.

      • JC

        Jeff says:
        December 29, 2012 at 6:14 pm
        Disarming you will make YOU safer in your own house. It will make me safer in that your stupid gun won’t be stolen or taken by your slightly unstable grandson.
        __________________________________________________________________

        With that in mind, why don’t you put a sign in front of your house that says,
        “Gun Free Home”? That way your neighbors will feel safer knowing criminals will
        target you first. Stand by your convictions man! LOL

      • Jeff

        Your post does not address the FACT that you are less safe from gun violence with a gun in the house. If a burglar targets your house, he will make sure no one is home. If he’s a pro, he’ll steal your gun. Unless you’re always there with the gun in your hand, it’s more likely he’ll get the gun and use it than for you to use it for protection.

        Frankly, if a burglar came to my house looking for his next fix, he wouldn’t get much he could quickly convert to cash. The TVs are too large and the cable boxes wouldn’t do him any good. Maybe an old DVD player and this old computer. But if I had a gun collection, then he could really score.

      • BR549

        Jeff wrote: “If a burglar targets your house, he will make sure no one is home.”

        REALLY? While burglars have been preferring daytime intrusions more than nighttime, that figure had only started to change about ten years ago. It used to be about even; now, it might be double; something like that.

        But whatever the case, there are supposedly at least 2,000,000 crimes that have been thwarted by citizens legally owning and using guns.

        http://www.conservativepolitico.org/2012/12/more-gun-control-no.html
        (from that article)

        5. [The Claim that] Guns Aren’t Used in Defense
        A myth is that guns aren’t used in defense. Further, another myth is that the number I will soon use: 2.5 million defensive gun usages (DGU’s) each year are only based on one study… So lets list my countless examples [9]:
        Gary Mauser 1990: 1,487,342 DGU’s a year
        Gallup Polling 1991: 777,153 DGU’s each year
        Gallup polling 1993: 1,621,377 DGU’s each year
        LA times polling 1994: 3,609,682 DGU’s each year
        Tarrance 1994: 764,036 DGU’s
        That was overall US polling. When looking at every state and then multiplying the result in a way for the US statistic (NOTE: this is a proxy, and less accurate then above):
        California used as a proxy: 3,052,717 DGU’s
        Illinois: 1,414,544 DGU’s a year
        Ohio as a proxy: 771,043 DGU’s a year

      • JC

        Further to that thought JeffH…if you had a “registered” gun collection, it would probably end up on a criminals list of addresses to break into. The now defunct Gun Registry in Canada was hacked 35 or 40 times. Not to mention it collapsed and lost over 20,000 handguns at least once.

      • Joe H

        Got news jeff my BOY. since I have a CCW, my gun IS with me where ever I go. I have a safe too big to be carried out of my house and also one in my car. Come try to take it girly boy!

      • Jeff

        What a helluva guy! You must be very popular. I don’t imagine you get a lot of social invites.

      • JC

        Jeff says:
        December 30, 2012 at 2:31 pm
        Your post does not address the FACT that you are less safe from gun violence with a gun in the house.
        __________________________________________________________________

        In what way is that a fact? Simply because you say so?
        The FACT is that when I’m not home my guns are safe’d.
        When I am home, I have a loaded gun handy 3 days a week…come on over, kick
        in the door and see if you guessed correctly! . ;-)

      • Jeff

        Why would I want to? If I want to see a trailer, I’ll go to one locally.

    • Mike in MI

      JeffH –
      Thanks for that piece. He talks about the liberals affinity for laws having some sort of “talismanic” power in their minds, ideological structuring, whatever.
      Remember, “Liberalism” in its essence is derived from the religion of Humanism which has a specific codified system put together and revised at various times.
      To such worshipers, laws are drawn up supporting the codified, basic system. Sort of doctrines and sub-codes with penance and tithes (fees, fines and penalties).
      So, in effect the Humanists, denomination being termed Liberals, have set up a religion wedded to the government. They intend to have their system to replace anything already guiding the conduct of society. They think they can make it work harmoniously with established Constitution, legal systems and social order. All they need is enough science, enough superior intellectuals (like Obama and friends) and enough laws to help regulate people and everything important to life.

  • JeffH

    Solving problems with violence is as American as apple pie

    Hypocrisy of Gun Control in a Land Where War and Violence Are Sexy

    The National Rifle Association (NRA) has become public enemy number one amongst left-leaning Americans since the most recent incident of random shooting. Is blaming the NRA a convenient way for Americans to avoid some necessary soul searching: a refusal to address the deeply-rooted cultural problem of violence being the preferred method of conflict resolution and most popular source of entertainment in areas that include sports, movies, TV, and video games? In essence, violence provides the backdrop to nearly all aspects of life in the United States. The government has glamorized violence by conducting endless wars, maintaining a gargantuan prison system, and keeping the death penalty legal. The US economy has increasingly become a war economy since 2001, and the business of death is booming. Recruitment centers for the US military are popping up in every high school and shopping mall. Television and cinema advertisements for the Marines have the slick and sexy look of Hollywood trailers. “Be all you can be!” says Uncle Sam, who carefully omits from his sales pitch that the main requirements for the job are the willingness to kill and get killed.

    Can one blame the NRA when the US president runs a kill list from the White House?

    Of 429,729 homicide FBI files examined by evolutionary psychologist David Buss, 13,670 (or 3%) were cases in which a husband killed his wife. Thus, in their more intimate roles as jilted lovers or unloved sons, a small fraction of men murder not only their mates or parents but also everyone else who happens to be nearby at the wrong time. Why should collateral damage be solely the purview of the President? After all, he is considered to be the country’s ultimate role model. And why should Americans be surprised by an endemic violence problem when their role model, their foremost example of what one does with power, runs an assassination program directly from the White House?

    • DaveH

      Here is some backup for that concept.
      Utah is at the bottom of the Brady Campaign rankings for Gun Control.
      California is at the top of the Brady Campaign rankings for Gun Control.
      Utah has a murder rate of 1.9 per 100,000.
      California has a murder rate of 4.8 per 100,000.
      DC, by the way, has a murder rate of 17.5 per 100,000. So much for Big Government protecting us.

      • ranger09

        For all you People that thinks the Military will help the People againest the Govt, YOU are so wrong, History shows us that the Military and Police will follow the Orders of the Govt. Only time the Military will side with the People is when the Fighting is 45-47 % in favor of the People. But we all know this % will never be Possible, We have just let the Powers to Be gain to much Power over us, We have become Sheep that just follow the Bell.
        One thing about Thomas Jefferson he darn well knew History. To bad many people on here know very little. No longer will i shed my blood in other Lands, Only in America.
        I remember My Brother who was In Korea, When the usa started going to VietNam, His only comment was well i see another Korea. But these People will not Compormise. And man he was so Right.

      • Smilee

        Not a chance, our military will never turn on our government, from the whiskey rebellion through civil war and beyond they din not and the culture today is less susceptible to it today. This is silly and foolish talk on your part

      • http://yahoo gator

        smilee, you are wrong. I know many in the military, and they would gladly turn on the gov. Its no secret that the murders at the embassy in bengazi, was a betrayal of our troops. Our military has more intelligence, and love of country, than you think. They also have a growing hatred of the powers that be.
        [comment has been edited]

      • Smilee

        I understand your fantasy but that is all it is, never going to happen in any grand scale and those who try it if they have the courage will quickly be put down and probably be charged and convicted of treason, that’s reality. Talk is cheap as anyone on here should be able to figure out except maybe those of you in a fantasy world

    • czman75

      ovomit, a role model? for who?

      • tony newbill

        What would Karolyn , NC , Flashy and Eddie47d have to say about this if Bush would have been in the Catbirds seat ????
        http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=BT1yqBZQOTs

      • eddie47d

        Bush has been in the “catbird” seat and even fell into the pile but still came out smelling like a rose. He didn’t even knock his hallo off!

      • tony newbill

        Oh BS Eddie47d Obama and the DEMs have gotten Miles off the ‘ Its Bushes fault “syndrome , Obama got elected twice now because of it , Clinton even used it when he said Obama couldn’t have fixed Bushes mess in one term , so go back to your mumbling man and cook up some other excuse for the Media NOT holding Obama to account for his Failed policies too !!!!

      • Mike in MI

        czman -
        He’s a role model for anyone who wants to get rolled I guess.
        It never ceases to amaze me how short-sighted, brain paralysed and totally lacking in insight liberals are. (I guess that’s why they are such a threat to civilization.) They want all the guns taken away thinking that will immediately put the kaibash on all violence. And in the next breath they blame all that on our awful, violent society: its media, entertainment, pro sports, field sports seeking food, competition, etc., etc., ad infinitum.
        But they never stop to (or begin to) think that those who take the guns are members of the same social millieu (except Obanimal, of course). They are just as likely, maybe more, to be a violent, oppressive, demanding, straight-laced control-freak as any other member of this great culture where weapons tend to remind those types that if you step into my personal zone I can and will despatch you forthwith. You try to force things or yourself on me/mine in ways I definitely dislike, you become just another dangerous animal in my mind. Reasonable, civilized, rational human beings don’t go around invading the lives and livelihoods of others or acting provokingly unless their intents are to do damage.
        That’s what normal people recognize about Oblama-lama-ding-dong and crew.

      • eddie47d

        You ask the question,use my name and then get testy because I answered! Typical Conservative troll!!

      • http://naver samurai

        Maybe this is something that the 5th column ought to read.

        http://www.patriotupdate.com/articles/note-to-gun-control-liberals-you-cant-handle-the-truth/

        FOR GOD AND COUNTRY! 하나님하고 나라를 위해서!

        You need both love of country and faith in God to be a patriot.

        “The wall of separation of church and state is a metaphor based on bad history…it should be frankly and explicitly abandoned.”

        William Rehnquist 1985

      • http://www.facebook.com/thomas.sherman.589 tgsherman

        CHINA & the LEFT

      • Joe H

        A role model for all the muslim comunistic azzes out in the world of course!

    • http://www.facebook.com/benjamin.fox.98892 Benjamin Fox

      So your answer is what JeffH? Let evil do what evil will do and don’t try to stop or change it? I guess your a real girly boy? Do you wave your dress at evil? what a piece of crap you are.

      • JeffH

        Benjy, what the F— are you blabbering about. Are you on drugs, drunk or just plain stupid? Seek some help you ignoramous!

  • phideaux

    Excellent article Wayne. I can not wait to see the feeble attempts to discredit you eddie and flashy will make.

    • Vicki

      It is kinda obvious that guns save lives. In Gun Free Zones lots of people die. Recent examples include a movie theater and a school. Zones with lots of guns NEVER have lots of people die. Examples include police stations, gun shops and military bases. Wait a minute? Fort Hood. Oh yeah that’s right. Clinton turned them into GUN FREE ZONES.
      http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2009/nov/11/end-clinton-era-military-base-gun-ban/

      Its time to STOP the MADNESS.

      • http://yahoo.com Frank

        Any attempt to take guns away from freedom loving, good Americans will result in the people with guns taking over the government! Obama hates America…..1/2 of America hates him and see that his real goal is a dictatorship!! The 1/2 that hates him is very well armed, the military will side with the free Americans!! Bet ya!!

      • marcjeric32

        If guns kill people then: pencils misspell words, cars make people drive drunk, spoons make people fat, matches result in arson, water drowns kids, heights make people fall, and socialism makes everybody rich.

      • GALT

        Given old Wayne’s “satisfied” customer base, that he be “armed” at all times is probably a wise precaution…….armored vehicles and bodyguards too, but we know he can’t afford them…….I wonder if he is ready for the FEMA camp……..” King Rat ” might provide some interesting idea’s for you Wayne.

      • DaveH

        We’ll see, Frank, but I really doubt that the people would put their guns where their mouths are.
        Take New Orleans for example:
        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-taU9d26wT4

      • Mikey

        LOL…..marcjeric32, well put!

      • Smilee

        Frank says:
        December 27, 2012 at 7:17 am

        More than half voted for him and the rest that didn’t vote for him do not all hate him that is only a small percentage of them and few want to take up arms against the government just persons with radical beliefs and sorry to tell you there is not anywhere near enough fire power to take over the government it would be a short and fast war with the radicals either ending up dead or in prison.

      • JeffH

        Smilee, I’m quite sure most of us have a different take than you about who the “radicals” are.

      • DaveH

        Flashman says — “sorry to tell you there is not anywhere near enough fire power to take over the government”.
        If that were the case, then they wouldn’t need to hire people like Flashshill to Propagandize us.
        Government Leaders are a very small percentage of the population and they depend on the goodwill of the vast majority of people to stay in power.

      • eddie47d

        Jeff H ; We can’t help that you are buddies with Chris Simcox. Your dear friend on the border!

      • http://naver samurai

        Now Jeff H, we all know that flashman, ed, and smilee would be the ones in prison or worse. Here is something from a 5th columner using race as a reason for us wanting to own guns. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY! 하나님하고 나라를 위해서!

        http://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/michael-moore-calm-down-white-people-and-put-away-your-guns

        You need both love of country and faith in God to be a patriiot.

        “If we did a good act merely from love of God and a belief that it is pleasing to Him, whence rises the morality of the atheist? Their virtue then, must have had some other foundation than the love of God.”

        Thomas Jefferson

      • Jeff

        Fifth Columner? Why? Because he objected to GM closing its factories in Flint and moving them out of the country? Because he objects to morons like you who “talk to God” walking around with powerful guns? Because he objects to our country having the money for everything but caring for its citizens? Because he is smarter and more successful than you’ll ever be with your Fake Samurai act? Keep telling everyone you’re Godly and patriotic and holier than thou while you’re ready to sell your soul to any corporate interest willing to put people out of work to make a buck. When people do that, you can say it’s legal, you can say it’s good business; you can’t say it’s patriotic unless you’re a Fake!

      • JeffH

        eddie, again you say somethig stupid and ignorantly outrageous.
        Are you the offspring of inbreeding?

        As for Simcox, never met the guy, but if I did we’d probably get along just fine. Unlike you and your ilk, he’s obviously a concerned patriot. Seems he’s got a lot of folks attempting to discredit him…nothing new where liberals and progressive lambs are concrned.

        BOO!

      • JeffH

        Child troll Jeff with the Nazi fetish, are you related to eddie and Karolyn? A lot of similarities in your posts.

      • Jeff

        Gun Nut From Nozzle Entrance:

        That’s how Fresno is thought of here. The Nazi fetishist is YOU. You are obviously ashamed and embarrassed that you used to adorn your moronic posts with swastikas and pictures of your Uncle Adolph. Want to see a Nazi? Look in the mirror – holding your stupid gun, of course.

      • MLR

        Vicki.
        Military bases have been gun free for decades, I was in the US Army, 1971-1973.
        The guns for the soldiers are locked up in the armory, utill something happens, then you get your rifle, but your’e lucky to get any ammo. to go with it

      • JeffH

        Thanks for the unintelligent response child troll with the Nazi fetish. Wah! Wah! Fresno, Wah! Wah! You really hurt my feelings NOT!

        FYI, I don’t have to look in the mirror to admire my guns. I treat them with respect, cleaning and polishing them, keeping them warm and comfortable in their soft and luxurious cases.

      • Jeff

        child troll with the Nazi fetish:

        You really do have a very limited vocabulary though I suspect you know all kinds of gun and killing terminology.

      • JeffH

        Why waste words on someone as irrelevant as you Jeff, the childish troll with the Nazi fetish. Being suspect must keep your mind occupied.

        Better you than me! :) Wah, wah, wah! Want some cheese to go with your whine?

      • Jeff

        Fortunately, you’re one of the dumb, obvious Nazis. The smart ones are much more dangerous.

      • JeffH

        Keep posting child troll…with the Nazi fetish. Show the rest of the posters here just how immature and childish you really are.

      • macgyver1948

        Hi Jeff… Sad that nothing changes here except for the thread and the articles and some of the names, LOL… Hows it going? …

      • Jeff

        Some of the names here I’ve been reading their posts since even before Elaine, although that seems like the beginning of time.

      • macgyver1948

        Jeff… Some of these names are new to me here but there are others I remember. This Elaine person you mention, who is she? On second thought please do not remind me. LOL

      • Financially Insecure John

        Vicki,
        if your hands could read the stuff you type, they would cut your wrist-both of them.

      • Vicki

        Financially Insecure John says:
        “Vicki,
        if your hands could read the stuff you type, they would cut your wrist-both of them.”

        Oh look. They brought out their supervisor just for little ol’e me. How sweet.

      • http://naver samurai

        Ah yes! The personal attack. Classic 5th column strategy. You seem to talk the talk, but you can never walk the walk. You are the heretic and fake. That’s all I’ll say about your post Mr. gestapo. Leave your facist tendencies off of this site. You really do make yourself sound stupid. I gues it is true what Jeff H says, “Stupid is as stupid does.” Here is something for you 5th columners to ponder. Another victory for God and patriots and a loss for the 5th column.

        http://www.aclj.org/2012-victories-constitution-protects-nativity-scenes-public-land?sf8036052=1

        FOR GOD AND COUNTRY! 하나님하고 나라를 위해서!

        You need both love of country and faith in God to be a patriot.

        “While just government protects all in their religious rights, true religion affords to government its surest support.”

        George Washington

      • Mike in MI

        Hey Smilee – Re. your 1;42 PM POST
        You seem to forget Obama’s got most of the U.S. Army, Marines, Nat’l Guard, Navy and other forces, except his ATF, FEMA and TSA hired thugs, off around the world fighting battles he has set up for them to lose by assinine rules of engagement, “pacification” of savagery, enlisting in and propagating graft and corruption to mollify the enemy (Taliban and al qaeda) and local chieftains and God knows how many other Chicago-plan-political-deals he’s running (along with guns, rockets and mortars to U.S. Ambassador killers).
        Do you really think he can marshal it all together, get it all home, in a couple days to protect himself? He’d better start now.

      • Smilee

        Mike in MI says:
        December 28, 2012 at 12:33 am

        .Only a fool would bet against that, no unorganized bunch of self declared militants wold stand a iota of a chance of success, dream on sucker

      • eddie47d

        Of coarse you’d get along with him Jeff H for he also advocated for killing on the border! That is right up your ally.

      • Robert Smith

        Shucks samurai… I wonder if your guy at: http://www.aclj.org/2012-victories-constitution-protects-nativity-scenes-public-land?sf8036052=1

        See, I know some folks who would like to put the Wiccan Rede in stone next to some public displays of the ten commandments.

        I think it’s much nicer. It doesn’t have any demands from diety that they be put before all others and things like that.

        Think your guy can help? Or is his brand of “religious freedom” just for some christians?

        Rob

      • Robert Smith

        Mike bleats: “(along with guns, rockets and mortars to U.S. Ambassador killers).”

        Hmmmmmm, wasn’t that Iran Contra?

        Sounds very much like Reagan to me.

        Rob

      • http://wyrdpooka.wordpress.com wyrdpooka

        the only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun blah blah blah, why do we always assume that owning a gun is some sort of magic . We always assume that being a GOOD Guy is the same thing as being a GOOD Shot. and the bad guys, well we’ve all seen it in the movies and tv. the bad guys cant hit the side of a barn.
        Course as it turns out. a person who owns a gun is 3 times more likely to shot them selves then a bad guy. But again we always assume that the stupid guy is not going to be you ohh no not you. Your never ever going to be that guy, that shot his six year old son to death in the parking lot of the gun shop. that’s never ever going to be you, cause your smart, and you got a gun so your smart and a crack shot and great in a panic situation. Cause your heart is pure so God will make all your bullets hit only the bad guys.

        Meh,. I’ve had people with guns try and kill me. so I’m not all peace and sun shine, but trust me on this, a quick wit and a can of super glue beats a gun. My only trouble with guns is that they make it too easy for stupid people to kill me.

        as a small thing, I just wonder,, why not put some limits on the number of bullets you can buy at a time? Guns don’t kill people, bullets do.

      • alicia

        And Chicago huh? There are lots of guns there, and lots of homicides. They go hand in hand.

      • BR549

        Alicia wrote: “And Chicago huh? There are lots of guns there, and lots of homicides. They go hand in hand.”

        Perfect example. Thank you. The good guys hand in all their guns and there is no one but understaffed police departments to respond to all the bad guys who were never going to hand their guns in to begin with. Glad you brought that up.

        ——————————-

        When and IF mankind ever matures beyond the point of invading other countries and needing to maintain a thriving arms industry in order to do so, only THEN will the need for guns fall off, and when countries and governments no longer require them, it won’t be profitable for the arms manufacturers.

        But the leftist libtards can’t think that far ahead. In typical knee-jerk fashion, they immediately start assessing their own mortality and run around wetting their pants during the nighttime news. And since the problem of disenfranchisement and disassociation of individuals from their own society never seems to make it to the legislative table, politicians will continue to corruptively support Monsanto which has systematically been destroying the viability of our soil profile, or the pharmaceutical industry, which only makes the dissociated members more toxic.

        No, sweetie, those people in Washington are guilty of one of two things; either acts of commission, where they intentionally pass laws that undermine organic farming attempts, OR they make it into office, pound their carrot for two years, and then are guilty of acts of omission, as they continually look the other way and never make an attempt to learn what the REAL problem is.

        As long we have this hegemonic foreign policy that continues to violate the sovereign boundaries of other nations, you can bet your last dollar that these people in Washington will have no respect for your boundaries, either. When people lose that sense of their own boundaries, THAT is where violence occurs towards others.

        Don’t hold your breath thinking that any of those cerebral sloths in Washington are going to offer to step down so that some fresh blood might be able to step up and put this country back on track. Heck, that traitor Inouye’s last wish was that the governor appoint his own replacement.

        And people think that giving up guns will save the children. Pardon me while I puke.

      • http://comcast the fisherman

        Hey pickerwood what butt are you blowing smoke out of this time

      • Old Henry

        DaveH,

        Good link. I saw another one on Alex’s site where a former OK NG called in and told about kicking in doors and ruffing up law-abiding citezens in NO.

        I think the people down ther eshould be having their own Nuremberg Trials, with similar outcomes.

      • http://www.facebook.com/holton.brown Holton F. Brown

        Thgis actually in responce to vicki. pls note location of store in reards to owner’s house:

        Deputies looking for info in gun shop burglary in Wayne County New York state)

        Posted at: 11/25/2012 12:57 PM | Updated at: 11/26/2012 12:22 AM
        By: Joangel Concepcion | WHEC.com

        Deputies in Wayne County are looking for information in an investigation into guns stolen from a business.

        Sheriff’s officials say a large quantity of guns were stolen from Tom’s Guns and Ammo on Steele Road in Sodus. The burglary happened sometime in the overnight hours on the night of the 23rd, into the morning of the 24th.

        The owner, Tom Putnam, tells News10NBC he feels completely violated. He says this burglary happening literally way too close to home. That’s because the owner’s house is attached to the shop and he says he was asleep when the burglary took place.

        Putnam has been running this gun shop for more than twenty years, so he says it didn’t take much for him to realize something was terribly wrong when he woke up on Saturday.

        “I opened up and I knew something was wrong right away,” says Putnam. “I heard wind whistling when I opened up the back door.”

        Putnam quickly realized his gun shop had been burglarized. He believes that two to three people broke into the store overnight by breaking through a bullet proof window. The thieves cleared out these displays cases making off with 62 handguns. Putnam says he’s worried the firearms will end up in the wrong hands.

        “There’s 62 handguns that are going to hit the street,”says Putnam. “They may be on the streets right now. Law abiding citizens aren’t the ones that will be buying these guns.”

        Putnam estimates the burglary cost him around $30,000, but he says it’s not about the money.

        “Guns are a very personal thing to me,” says Putnam. “I’ve been involved with firearms probably within the last fifty years.”

        The Wayne County Sheriff’s Office aren’t the only ones looking into this incident. They are also working with the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms on the investigation. Anybody with information on the incident is asked to call the Wayne County Sheriff’s Office at 315-946-9711.

        For more Rochester, N.Y. news go to our website http://www.whec.com.
        Like us on Facebook & follow us on Twitter

      • Overbylyng

        Interesting for a peaceful Dane to follow your seak debat about guns. In gunfree Denmark we have never had killings like you have. Every owner of a gun should be registered.
        And now we can see that you also sell bullitproof clotes to schoolkids and want to give teachers guns. You are creating a seak society based on fear instead of trust. You also have a lot of politisians that figt instead of creating co-existence and cooperation about solving problems. Co-existence or no-existence. War, guns, fear and hatred have newer solved basical problems for our globe.

      • Jeff

        You are absolutely correct, and it’s good that the gun nuts on this site hear a perspective from outside the U.S. The argument that “gun-free” zones are unsafe doesn’t even make sense unless you assume somebody has a gun in such a zone. Then they bring up the gun laws in Chicago and the murder rate there. Well, those guns didn’t come from Chicago and the State of Illinois cannot search everyone entering the state. If we had real nationwide gun control it would make a huge difference, but to some of these gun nuts, their guns are more important to them than their right arms.

    • tony newbill

      Obviously Eddie and Flashy don’t get up until later so they are definitely on Obamas benefits package , or they would be here with the rest of us who are up and looking for a way to make a buck today …. LOL
      Ahh but lets consider this today ,

      If Armed Security is needed at President Obamas scholl where hisd Kids go then why not this be US Policy for all schools ???
      http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2012/12/23/School-Obama-s-Daughters-Attend-Has-11-Armed-Guards-Not-Counting-Secret-Service

      • tony newbill

        Opps Sorry Eddie looks like you are up !!! LOL

      • Flashy

        Tony…think West Coast and work hours based on overseas time zones in the Pacific … but then, thinking is not known to be one of your “talents’….

      • tony newbill

        Good Morning Flashy !!!!!

      • Flashy

        mornin’ !

      • DaveH

        Yeah, Tony, you need to get with the program and take into account the hours worked at the Boiler Rooms.

      • DaveH

        “I quit this job in the latter part of 2011, because I became disgusted with it, and with myself. I realized I couldn’t look myself in the mirror anymore”.
        http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread826545/pg1&addstar=1&on=13829871#pid13829871

        We needn’t hope for that realization to come to Flashshill, because he would need a conscience before that could happen.

      • JeffH

        Dave :) very familiar looking.

        “It also had quite detailed info on the moderators and the most popular regged posters on each site: location (if known), personality type, topics of interest, background sketch, and even some notes on how to “push the psychological buttons” of different posters. Although I didn’t work for ATS, I did see they had a lot of info on your so-called “WATS” posters here (the ones with gold borders around their edges). “Focus on the popular posters,” my trainer told me. “These are the influential ones. Each of these is worth 50 to 100 of the lesser known names.”

        The part about the “brown nosing” reminded me of Loechner.

      • http://gravatar.com/bychoosing WTS/JAY

        Good one, DaveH! Of course, this only confirms what we knew all along. Naturally, the “paid-shill” on this site will deny it. No matter, we know who they are…

      • http://midcontent brand inspector

        The village Hillary is picking up their used sugar teats and the sippy cups off their beds. The government run nannies are plan their structured day. They will be along in a bit.

      • eddie47d

        Speaking of brown nosers and sugar teats Jeff H. that is one of your favorite ploys. As by the fact you are 100% agreeable to anything the authors have to say.They can be dead wrong and all we hear is crickets which means you will go along with ANY right wing programmer. No ability to think for yourself like so many sheeple on the right. I think you already have the Stockholm Syndrome as so many here do.

      • DaveH

        I don’t think Eddie is a shill, because I can’t imagine somebody paying for his nonsense even with other peoples’ money.

      • JeffH

        Excuse me while I laugh my arse off at your stupidity eddie. What I really like about you posting your ranting comments here is your ability to prove just how inane you really are. You are a true parrot, plagiarizing what you read and hear and then repeating it with childish and emotional ignorance.

        POLLY WANT A CRACKER? baaaarrraaacckkkkk!

        I think Mr. Livingston does a pretty good job of pointing that out, especially today, and yet he allows you to continue to make your insubstantial, silly, unintelligent, absurd, ridiculous, frivolous, childish, immature, mindless, crass and stupid comments.

        There is a reason why you reap the bulk of the negative comments on this website eddie, and it’s not because you’re a perceived threat to anyone else. Your skull must be so thick that you are willing to be the laughingstock of PLD rather than just admit you are wrong, a liar, a slanderer and that you truly are mentally deficient.

        Seek some help!

      • http://naver samurai

        Well said Jeff H, Dave H, and Tony, but don’t expect the 5th columners to understand what you are saying. Here is something from Senator Feinstein about having gun owners finger printed by the ATF:

        http://www.feinstein.senate.gov/public/index.cfm/assult-weapons

        Let her come here and try to get my fingerprints. She won’t make it passed the door. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY! 하나님하고 나라를 위해서!

        You need both love of country and fear of God to be a patriot.

        “The principle of separation of church and state is not embedded in the Constitution.”

        Antonin Scalia January 12, 2003

      • JeffH

        samurai, first things first. I hopw you, sook young and your family had a very Merry Christmas and please say hello to sook young for me and wish her the best.

        D.Feindyck…now isn’t she a piece of work.

      • http://naver samurai

        Thanks Jeff H! We hope you and yours had a Merry Christmas and will have a Happy New Year. Isn’t she a piece of work? Oooooohhhhh yyyyyeeeeeaaaaahhhhh! I just wonder who is the bigger piece of work Feinstein, Pelosi, or Reid? All 3 need to be replaced. Here is something about how Obama bin Laden is so full of himself, he talked about himself at the funeral of a senator from Hawaii. He also lied about growing up in Hawaii. If I remember right, isn’t Hawaii and Indonesia across the Pacific Ocean from each other?

        http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/obama-uses-funeral-service-talk-about-himself_690960.html

        FOR GOD AND COUNTRY! 하나님하고 나라를 위해서!

        You need both love of country and faith in God to be a patriot.

        “We profess to be republicans, and yet we neglect the only means of establishing and perpetuating our republican forms of government, that is, the universal education of our youth in the principles of Christianity by the means of the Bible. For this Divine Book, above all others, favors that equality among mankind, that respect for just laws, and those sober and frugal virtues, which constitute the soul of republicanism.”

        Benjamin Rush

    • HKaufman

      Root a toot toot, are both YOU and Root a toot toot that far gone out of REALITY. By yours and Root a toot toot thinking a gun matriculates into the Realm of Reality and tells the human now stand behind me and ill set you free of meeting the Grim Reaper. Nut with weapon ok to be Judge,Jury, and executioner.. I hope you have not started to breed. Geez Us,,, the fate of mankind quickly reaching the melting pot and with the thinking manking going back to bacteria stage…

      • JeffH

        Your words were really deep and well thought out…you must be a progressive.

      • http://naver samurai

        OMG! Someone quick, call an ambulance! This person needs to be rushed to the OR for their cranial rectumotomy. He has a severe case of cranial rectal insertion. Here is something about gun control laws:

        http://www.france24.com/en/20121223-us-lobby-issues-point-blank-no-gun-control

        FOR GOD AND COUNTRY! 하나님하고 나라를 위해서!

        You need both love of country and faith in God to be a patriot.

        “To the kindly influence of Christianity we owe that degree of civil ffreedom, and political and social happiness which mankind now eenjoys…Whenever the pillars of Christianity shall be overthrown, oour present republican forms of government, and all blessing which fflow from them, must fall with them.”

        Jedediah Morse

    • Joe H

      Phideaux,
      Why would you want to see comments from eddie and flashy when their combined comments don’t equal one cognitive thought? I think higher of your opine than that!!

    • eddie47d

      The title could just as easily said Guns Kill Lives but the authors never want to tell the whole truth about their mission!

    • fred buschbaum

      Having stumbled on this site, I feel honor bound to add a comment to this bag of nuts from both sides of the tree. And yes, I’ll be stealing other peoples ideas when I yhink they have merit. First, I thought I was a Rep. until I took seceral quizes, and found I’m so far right of that, that I’m a libertarian! I think most Reps want things as they are just like the Dems so they can keep on doing business on the same old street corner. Now for a couple of thoughts, Isoruko Yamamoto told the Japanese military leaders not to invade the U,S. because there would be a gun behind every blade of grass. In Isreal, school teachers are armed at all times and in the last 10 years, only 8 children have been killed,(this in a country surrounded by several million terrorists), while here in the U.S. in the same 10 yrs., 323 children have been killed. And, the number of people shot by various loonies who were stopped by police averages 18.5, the same average of people shot by loonies stopped by armed civilians was 2.2. I’ve just run out of coffee, so I’ll be back later to add more fuel to the fire. Semper Fi!

      • JC

        Fred, glad you could comment.
        Just as an aside…”Libertarian” isn’t far right.
        It’s a solid belief in the Constitution of the United States of America.
        That would be a main stream patriotic American.
        So don’t think of yourself as an extremist…that’s not what its about.

    • Steve L.

      The same people who blame President Obama and atty general for fast and furious now suddenly have switched to “guns in the right hands” ha ha ha. Next wayne will tell us the children murdered last week is Obama’s fault too. Google ‘losers and their propaganda’ and it will bring you directly to this site

      • BR549

        Steve L. wrote: “Next Wayne will tell us the children murdered last week is Obama’s fault too.” No, it isn’t Obama’s fault. If there’s any blame to pass around, it starts with corrupt politicians who have pulled the rug out from under many American’s belief that if they serve their country, their country will serve them. Instead, the politicians think they’re at some kind of smorgasbord, paid for with your and my tax dollars.

        Simply dismissing the politicians greedy unethical behavior as typically human only negates all that our forefathers fought for and what so many soldiers had given their lives for. These people took that extra step in taken an oath of service …… and then betrayed the very people that voted for them. This isn’t a partisan issue; it’s rampant on both sides of the aisle, but anyone who is till naively believing that only THEIR party still has the wherewithall to fix this country, is in for a very rude awakening.

        And, “Google ‘losers and their propaganda’ and it will bring you directly to this site.”
        So, then, ………. what exactly brought YOU here?

      • http://personalliberty Alondra

        Steve L, the 2nd Amendment says:

        “A well-regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, THE RIGHT OF THE PEOPLE TO KEEP AND BEAR ARMS, SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED.”

        But your libtadic two-cell twisted crippled brain with high deficiency of the Grey matter is incapable to understand and process the reality

        “A free PEOPLE OUGHT not only to BE ARMED and disciplined, but THEY SHOULD HAVE SUFFICIENT ARMS AND AMMUNITION TO MAINTAIN A STATUS OF INDEPENDENCE FROM ANY WHO MIGHT ATTEMPT TO ABUSE THEM, which would include their own GOVERNMENT.” – George Washington, the Founding Father, the 1st President of the USA, the 1st Commander-in-Chief

        “The very atmosphere of FIREARMS ANYWHERE and EVERYWHERE RESTRAINS EVIL INTERFERENCE. They deserve a place of HONOR with all that is good.” – George Washington

        “The said CONSTITUTION shall NEVER be construed to authorize Congress TO PREVENT THE PEOPLE of the United States who are peaceable citizens FROM KEEPING THEIR OWN ARMS.” – Samuel Adams, the Founding Fathers of the United States, one of the leaders of American Revolution, 4th Governor of Massachusetts, political Philosopher

        “The great object is that every man be armed. EVERYONE who is able may have a GUN.” – Patrick Henry (a Founding Father, he served as the first and sixth post-colonial Governor of Virginia; an attorney, planter and politician; he helped gain adoption of the Bill of Rights)

        “Are we at last brought to such humiliating and debasing degradation that we cannot be trusted with arms for our defense? Where is the difference between having our ARMS in possession and under our direction, and having them under the management of CONGRESS? If our defense be the real object of having those ARMS, in whose hands can they be trusted with more propriety, or equal safety to us, as in our own hands?” – Patrick Henry

        The Fast & Furious was the O’Homobama & Holder CRIMINAL operation, as well as the Benghazi operation (weapons for the Egyptian and Syrian muslim brotherhood)

        Benghazi Terrorists Armed By Obama (Obama supplied the weapons that were used to kill Americans.)

        “It has been reported that the arms used to murder the Americans at the Benghazi consulate and CIA safe house were supplied by Barack Hussein Obama. That the group responsible for the attack—Ansar al-Sharia—got the weapons from their sister organization, al-Qaeda, which received the weapons directly from Barack Obama”

        westernjournalism.com/benghazi-terrorists-armed-by-obama/

        O’Homobama and Holder SUPPLIED Mexican drug cartels and Islamic extremists/terrorists with the weapons. They have blood on their hands of more than 300 Mexicans and four Americans.

        Steve L, Next time get the facts and not your left-wing propaganda or shut up.

    • http://personalliberty Alondra

      England and Australia Have Been Completely Disarmed!

      youtube.com/watch?v=zitVMxlNyGs

    • walter agard

      guns saves lives, it takes it too.

    • http://www.facebook.com/benjamin.fox.98892 Benjamin Fox

      Both eddie teddy and flashy dashy are both left wing nut jobs, their so called brains were fried at birth and the left overs came out instead of a human being. A gun left un attended has never killed anyone, people kill people and that is a fact to the dumb, blind and stupid.

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