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It’s Time For The GOP To Sacrifice Warren Buffett And The Billionaires

December 6, 2012 by  


 
Hello. I’m Wayne Allyn Root for Personal Liberty. I’m a small businessman who believes we are all over-taxed. I would not raise anyone’s taxes — not one dollar. Saving this economy is all about cutting spending dramatically. We don’t have a tax problem in America; we have a spending and entitlements problem. If I were in the GOP Congressional leadership, I’d never vote for a tax increase on anyone. Let Barack Obama pass a tax increase that sends the economy off the cliff by himself, then he can take the full blame.

But since John Boehner is the worst negotiator on Earth and is a weak-willed coward who has already showed his hand and offered Obama $800 billion in tax increases (the exact number Obama wanted in the first place), then I have a suggestion for the GOP.

Since Obama’s pet billionaires like Warren Buffett are so quick to sell out the upper middle class, two can play at that game.

Boehner obviously is frightened to death that Obama has GOP Congressmen between a rock and a hard place. He sees only two choices: Go along with Obama and raise taxes or be painted as “the party of the rich.” So since the weak-willed GOP is dead set on compromise (a terrible mistake unless it gets massive spending cuts in return — which it will never get from Obama), here’s a compromise that turns the tables on Obama.

I say it’s time to sacrifice the billionaires to save small business and the GOP.

Let’s start with the Warren Buffett story. Buffett is a complete phony, a con man. He’s the biggest tax avoider in America, yet he tries to portray himself as a “fair and generous man” who gladly wants to pay more taxes. It’s time to call his bluff.

Buffett and his best friend, Obama, have played a con game on the American people for too long. A Washington version of three-card monte, they misdirect, distract and divide with class warfare. The truth is the “top 2 percent” they are so keen on taxing isn’t made up of billionaires with yachts and private planes. It’s mostly a bunch of hard-working small-business owners (like me) who have no money to spare.

Buffett is a world-class phony and hypocrite. Buffett or any other billionaire liberal can voluntarily pay 35 percent tax rates (or higher) anytime he wants. Why not 50 percent? Or 90 percent? Billionaires don’t need the money, or so says Buffett. If he’s so keen on paying more taxes than his secretary, why does he choose to pay her with income that will be taxed at higher rates and yet convert all his income to capital gains, so he pays the smallest amount? What a hypocrite!

Are you aware Buffett is in a billion-dollar tax fight with the Internal Revenue Service? Yes, for years, Buffett has paid the best tax lawyers money can buy to not pay $1 billion one of his companies owes the United States. If you’re rich, generous and intent on paying more, why not just pay what you owe?

The reason, of course, is because Buffett doesn’t intend to pay more. He wants you and me to pay more.  His accountants and lawyers will keep his taxes low or nonexistent. High income-tax rates are another way billionaires like Buffet, who don’t live off their income, increase their advantage over small businessmen like me who can compete with them only by investing what we have left after we pay our taxes.

Oh, by the way, did you know Buffett’s father was a well-connected Congressman? He’s had a silver spoon in his mouth and gold-plated connections since the day he was born. He couldn’t care less about you and me. He cares only about the next sweetheart deal he can get from Obama. See this article.

Small businessmen like me don’t get sweetheart deals from government. We have no teams of lobbyists or lawyers on call. We need our earnings — desperately. We use our earnings to pay our employees, support our families, pay for our children’s college educations and provide for our retirement (small-business owners have no pensions). But most importantly, small-business owners need our money to start and expand our businesses or, in this horrible Obama economy, save them. Take more of our money with higher taxes and we won’t be able to pay for our employees’ health insurance, make payroll or keep our doors open in a crisis. And we’ll never be able to retire. Is that fair?

Mr. Buffett, please stop lying. Stop lumping us into your group. An income of $250,000 to $500,000 is hardly rich, and we need our money. Billionaires like you don’t create jobs. Seventy-five percent or more of new jobs are created by small business. How dare Buffett and Obama play a con game, saying: “The rich don’t need the extra money.” That’s a big, fat, Pinocchio-like lie.

Here’s another big, fat lie. When Democrats quote 80 percent tax rates of yesteryear to make today’s top rate of 35 percent seem “low,” they are leaving out all kinds of facts. On Wall Street omitting facts is called fraud.

First, that high rate of yesteryear applied only to the obscenely wealthy, not small business. Franklin Delano Roosevelt’s 79 percent top rate applied to only one billionaire in the whole country, and that rate kicked in only at an income of almost $100 million (in today’s dollars). Did you ever hear Obama say that?

Second, deductions were much higher in those days, so the higher rate was grossly misleading. Third, it was primarily a cash economy wherein the tax rate was meaningless because few ever paid it. The fact is those 80 percent (or higher) tax rates applied only to billionaire industrialists (like bigmouth hypocrite Warren Buffett).

Buffett and Obama are trying to divide the GOP, force it to sacrifice small business or be painted as “the party of the rich.” The GOP should break that stranglehold by positioning itself as the protectors of small business. The sweet spot where all the jobs are created is small-business owners earning $250,000 to $500,000. To prevent a collapse of the U.S. economy, the GOP needs to become the courageous fighter for small business.

Let’s give Buffett a taste of his own medicine. Forget the super-rich and the corporate CEOs. The phonies with the private jets and yachts supported Obama and claim to want to pay more taxes, so let them. The GOP should propose a deal to raise tax rates starting at incomes of $5 million, $10 million and $20 million per year. Add a special tax increase (a huge one) to incomes over $100 million per year. Hit Buffett where it hurts. Let’s see if the old, hypocritical geezer agrees to that one. I’m betting he blows a gasket. I’m betting he whines and complains and says it’s too expensive and the billionaires will leave the country, which exposes his lie and hypocrisy. He wants the tax increases on other people: the middle class, the upper middle class and small business. You and me. Let’s turn the tables on him. If Boehner is going to compromise on taxes anyway, let’s sacrifice the billionaires.

Result? The GOP is now the hero, the protector of small business. Thirty million small-business owners will owe a debt of gratitude, along with everyone who works for them. That’s probably a total of 50 million to 75 million people the GOP has stood up for, saved their businesses and saved their jobs.

In return for sacrificing the truly rich, the GOP should demand Democrats give a minimum of three to one in spending cuts: cuts that take effect right now — not 10 years in the future when a new weak-willed Congress will make sure they never happen at all. If Obama won’t do that deal, then he proves he’s the enemy of small business, he’s the protector of fat cat billionaires, and he has no interest in reducing the debt. If that’s the case, the GOP should walk away, let Obama send the economy off the fiscal cliff and allow Obama to take 100 percent of the blame. It’s his economy. Let him own it.

Oh, and he can keep Warren Buffett, too.

I’m Wayne Allyn Root for PersonalLiberty.com. See you next week. Happy holidays and God bless.

Wayne Allyn Root

(W.A.R.) is a former Presidential candidate, the 2008 Libertarian Vice Presidential nominee and a Tea Party favorite. He is the ultimate capitalist evangelist: a blue-collar S.O.B. (son of a butcher) turned small businessman, entrepreneur, CEO, home-schooler and citizen politician. Root is a talk-show host, bestselling author, business speaker and TV/radio commentator on business, economics, entrepreneurship and politics. He is a regular guest on Fox News, as well as on hundreds of radio shows across the United States. Root's opinions reach tens of millions of Americans as a regular columnist and commentator for many of the most popular political and business websites, including FoxNews.com. He also writes regularly for The Washington Times. He is the bestselling author of seven books. Root serves as national spokesman for several companies, including Asset Strategies International, a global precious metals company, and Senior Economic Advisor to Wealth Masters International, a global financial services company. He is also well known in the television and media industries. Root started his career as an anchorman and host for CNBC (then known as Financial News Network). He has hosted, starred and produced many television shows. Today, he is a producer of the highest-rated television show on Travel Channel, "Ghost Adventures."  Because of his success in the diverse fields of business, media, sports, entertainment and publishing, Root was awarded his own 180-pound granite star in the Las Vegas Walk of Stars. Only 50 legends in the history of Las Vegas have received a star on Las Vegas Boulevard. Root joins Elvis Presley, Frank Sinatra, Wayne Newton, Liberace and Dean Martin, along with other icons of business and entertainment. Root's star can be viewed in front of New York New York Resort. A native New Yorker and graduate of prestigious Columbia University, this capitalist evangelist proudly resides in Nevada, a State with no personal or business income tax. His website is ROOTforAmerica.com.

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  • Norm

    Critics of the President’s budget charge that his proposals to roll back tax breaks for taxpayers with incomes over $250,000 would harm small businesses. In fact, only 8.9 percent of people with any small business income have incomes of over $250,000 and, thus, would even potentially be affected by these provisions. And that figure substantially overstates the percentage of people with small business income who would actually be affected by these provisions; for example, only 1.9 percent of people with such income currently are in a tax bracket with a rate higher than 28 percent. As a result, the percentage of people with small business income who would be affected by proposals to increase the top two tax rates or limit the value of itemized deductions to 28 percent of deductable expenses would be extremely small.
    Furthermore, even these estimates, from the Urban Institute-Brookings Institution Tax Policy Center, may overstate the impact of these provisions because they are based on the previous administration’s definition of “small businesses,” which includes investors in small businesses who have little or no role in managing them.
    Indeed, the vast majority of small business owners and their employees would benefit from proposals in the budget to cut taxes for middle-class taxpayers, such as extending the Making Work Pay tax credits enacted on a temporary basis in the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act. In addition, most small businesses and their employees are likely to benefit from non-tax proposals in the budget, particularly the President’s proposal to reform the health care system by expanding health insurance coverage and making health care more affordable.

    • DaveH

      So let me get this straight. It’s okay to help yourself to other peoples’ money, if they’re in the minority?
      Did I miss the qualifier in the Bible that said “Thou Shalt Not Steal — Unless you’re in the Majority”?

      • Norm

        Supporting your country is called patriotism.
        We did just fine in the Clinton era before Bush’s unfunded and illegal wars, unfunded Medicare part D, and cash bonuses for the big players.
        Where are all the Bush tax cut jobs?
        Let’s face it, if we as a country want to play “Imperial America” and have all the benefits that the government provides, we need to walk up to the bar and pay our tab. There’s no free lunch.
        If you want to live in the woods, home school your kids, raise your own food, and carry a gun at all times, then maybe Africa or South America is right for you.
        No taxes!

      • Nadzieja Batki

        But Norm you don’t want to support your country, you just want other people’s money to support the country.

      • Norm

        Nadzieja Batki
        Sir I’ve paid more than I’ve received. And I continue to do so.

      • Smilee

        Davy

        Even Christ advocated you pay your taxes and respect governmental authority, Do you really believe he would of done that if he regarded taxes as theft, it is not theft. You just hate government and authority and that is why you are such a miserable and greedy person

      • DaveH

        Norm says — “Supporting your country is called patriotism”.
        That’s funny. A Liberal Progressive playing the “patriotism” card.
        Manipulate somebody else, Norm. It doesn’t work on me.
        Taking money from unwilling donors is called Theft, Norm, no matter how many of you thieves vote for it.

      • DaveH

        Sleepee. Wake up. It’s time for a lesson.
        “I have never understood why it is greed to want to keep the money you have earned but not greed to want to take somebody else’s money” — Thomas Sowell.

        I’m Greedy, Sleepee, for not wanting people to be Forced to pay for things they don’t want?
        But you’re NOT Greedy for wanting to Force people to pay for things YOU want?
        Only one of the 7 dwarfs could manage that stretch.

        http://townhall.com/columnists/thomassowell/2007/01/23/the_greed_fallacy

  • momo

    WAR makes it sound like Buffet’s father gave young Warren all the advantages of his being a congressman. Did you know Howard Buffett was a REPUBLICAN? That he believed in a gold backed dollar? That he refused a congressional pay raise? Warren Buffet studied under Ben Graham at Columbia and worked for Graham for a time in New York before returning to Omaha to start his own business. Sure he probably used his father’s cache as a congressman to get some investors, but his success is due to his own hard work. Did anybody even hear of Buffett before the 1990′s? Unless you’re a diehard reader of investment books, I doubt it. I don’t like Buffett’s politics, but I admire his business success.

  • Peter

    Before I start, let me say that I am not a Republican or a Democrat. I find them both repulsive.

    The Republican party is dying because they have nothing to sell to the American people. The Democrats slogan should be, vote for me and I will give you free stuff.

    If you really want to change government, stop thinking like a democrat or a republican, look into the Fair Tax proposal. All 72,000 pages of the tax code would be thrown out the window and we would only be taxed on the money we spent.

    All of a sudden drug dealers and illegal aliens are paying taxes.

    More international companies would want to do business in the USA because there is no taxes. That means more jobs!

    Those international companies that are now doing business in the USA would need to buy products and services. That means more money for the government.

    My personal favorite reason is that it is FAIR and CLEAR. Its very easy to understand.

    Take a moment to go to this web site…. http://www.fairtax.org/

    • DaveH

      Especially read this page:
      http://www.fairtax.org/PDF/WhichComesFirst.pdf

      The Fair Tax is not Fair at all to the unwilling business people who will become Government Tax Collectors. And I suspect that it is just another of the Progressive scams that have been perpetrated on the American people by unscrupulous Leaders over the last 100 years, who really just want to get their foot in the door for a combination of Consumption Taxes and Income Taxes like they have in Europe. Leaders are always searching for new ways to extract as much as they can from the rest of us.

      • DaveH

        The Flat Tax Is Not Flat and the FairTax Is Not Fair:
        http://mises.org/daily/3389

      • Peter

        You and I both know there is going to be taxes. There is no getting away from that. I agree with you that having BOTH the Fair Tax and our current tax system would be a disaster.

        My argument is that the Fair Tax would be a better system than what we have now. Get rid of the estate tax, payroll tax, corporate tax, income tax as well as all other types of taxes. the only tax we would have is a sales tax on everything we purchased.

        With the “Financial Cliff” that everyone refers to on the horizon, it is going to become a necessity to make some drastic changes. What we have is not working.

        As far as the burden of small business owners becoming tax collectors, I don’t see this as a problem. The majority of transactions are done using plastic (debit or credit). Bits and bytes are moved around alerting financial institutions to move money from one account to another account. I can easily see money moved in a similar fashion. If there is an argument against that then handle it the same way that we handle a state sales tax.

      • DaveH

        If you read the Which Comes First link, Peter, you would know that they don’t really plan to do that.

      • DaveH

        Peter says — “If there is an argument against that then handle it the same way that we handle a state sales tax”.
        How cavalier, Peter. Forcing them to be the tax collectors for the State is also an unjust imposition on businesses.

  • 45caliber

    I personally don’t care if they tax the rich – as long as they tax ALL the rich. Buffet and others have no intention of paying more taxes and have the loop holes to insure they don’t. The way many profer – like Buffet – is to place all their profits in a tax-free foundation that they solely control.

    BUT … an economist recently pointed out that if the government was to take every penny anyone made over $50,000 as tax, it would run the government about two weeks. I don’t think that will keep the country from going over the cliff.

  • Esther Danner

    Let’s have a wealth tax , say .005% of what your worth over $250,000. that way Mr. Buffet can pay a tax on the same billions each year.Just like I pay a tax on the same house each year.

    • Flashy

      A “wealth tax” would require another Constitutional Amendment (i believe).

      • GALT

        Nah, just another ruling by the S.Court…….from everything that comes in……to everything
        that is in………after all what “income is”…..is different for everyone…….so all that is required is a little imagination……..if “wages” can be income…..then there is no reason that
        “unnecessary wealth” should not be included.

  • Right Brain Thinker

    Good rant, Wayne! After sorting out all the propaganda horsepucky that you so-called conservatives like to bury things in, I find a few things in what you say that I can agree with wholeheartedly, particularly :

    “Add a special tax increase (a huge one) to incomes over $100 million per year”

    That would certainly get the 1/10 of 1% to pay its fair share, particularly since they hold so much of the nation’s wealth in their vaults. I would suggest that we also levy large (if not quite “huge”) tax increases at the $5-$10-$15-etc million levels as well, with people who make more paying a larger share of their income. It’s called “progressive taxation”, Wayne, and it has worked before and 2/3 of the voters want it to return NOW!

    The GOP has blown it, Wayne. They are in no position to “demand” anything. Their blind obedience to Grover and The Pledge has done them in. They missed any opportunity they had and will now have to take their lumps.

    And your biggest shovel of horsepucky is perhaps saved for the last sentence, in which you state, “….the GOP should walk away, let Obama send the economy off the fiscal cliff and allow Obama to take 100 percent of the blame. It’s his economy. Let him own it”.

    Nice try, Wayne but since you are an odds maker with a really TERRIFIC outcome on the presidential election to boost your credibility, let me remind you that the latest figures on “blame” show that 53% of the public will blame the GOP if we go off the cliff while only 27% will blame Obama. That’s 2 to 1, Wayne—-are you really going to bet against those odds? And don’t forget that we still have quite a while before we reach the cliff’s edge AND the GOP is just saying dumber and dumber things as they squirm in their stupidity.

    I predict that the GOP will sink itself far enough that they will be blamed by at least a 3 to 1 margin if we go over the cliff. I myself am almost hoping that the GOP does listen to Grover rather than the people who elected them and DOES push us over the cliff—the country will survive—the cliff is not as bad as it is made out to be. The fear-mongers of the right have blown it up to be a big deal so they can once again blackmail O’Bama and hold the country hostage. It’s not going to work this time.

    And you have made Buffett your straw man here? He has already made his position clear—he thinks the rich should pay their fair share—all your ranting about what he may do is just horsepucky. Buffett WILL quietly pay more in taxes and WILL quietly continue to invest and make money on whatever he has left. He and his rich buddies did it when they paid at the 90% rate and they will do it now. He has made it abundantly clear that he thinks that way and you won’t fool anyone with half a brain by trying to beat up on him. And the “billion dollar fight” he’s engaged in? How is that any different than how all the plutocrats and corporations and corporate oligarchs behave when their interests are threatened? Buffett didn’t get rich by being all that different from the rest of the “fat cats”, just smarter.

    You’re grasping at straws, Wayne, just as you did with O’Bama vs. Romney. Look for a sure bet instead this time—Obama will win BIG, no matter what happens—the GOP will lose—bet on it.

    • DaveH

      RBT exposes himself as the Liberal Progressive that he is.
      Thank you, RBT.
      Your class warfare would be well-received in North Korea, RBT. Now, lights out:
      http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/dprk/dprk-dark.htm

      • DaveH

        Leaders love people like RBT who will happily pass out the Kool-Aid to those followers, who just don’t know any better, while the Leaders party hardy on their money.

      • Right Brain Thinker

        Dave is having a conversation with himself again. Is anyone listening?

      • DaveH

        Isn’t it time for you to start hunting for food, Lizard Brain?

  • MTR

    Wayne, you must deliver a printed copy of this proposal to Mr. Boehner and Mr. McConnell.

  • JC

    “It’s Time For The GOP To Sacrifice Warren Buffett And The Billionaires”

    I love it! Get rid of the Corporament that passes for Congress and Co.
    Then we’ll see how long the Dems can live without it too.

    Outlaw lobbying altogether and any member of government found to be receiving favors or cash incentives from anyone…should be tried and jailed.
    :)

    • DaveH

      There is the matter of that pesky 1st Amendment.
      Better would be for the people to get educated and awaken to the fact that Government meddling in the Marketplace is the root of all Crony Capitalism.

  • Fedup

    MD, the “half” that are moochers, morons and Marxists?”

  • NVRAT

    I agree. The GOP should tell the people that they have done everything they can and Obama refuses to meet and discuss real reform and it appears that he wants to take America over the cliff and there is nothing they can do to stop him. Let the rich pay and call it the Buffett-Obama Tax Plan.

    • http://tlgeer.wordpress.com tlgeer

      Except that it’s not the President that’s stonewalling, it’s the GOP. What would make them think that ANYONE would accept a proposal to change the tax laws without details of what they say they want to change? That is not realistic in the slightest way.

  • Ried

    I have a better suggestion.

    It is alleged the IRS tax code is approximately 72,000 pages.

    Provide me with a $250,000 grant, and I will write a new tax code of under 100 pages. Send the 72,000 code into the recycling bin, and offer the public a simple 100 page code to follow.

    • GALT

      Nah, you can’t beat the 999 plan or the post card return……

    • http://ontheramparts.wordpress.com drtch

      Whoever said the Federal Tax Code is 72,000 pages long has to have his eyes checked or his head examined. It lies in Title 26 of the Federal Code books, and couldn’t be any more than a few hundred pages, though it is lengthy and written in such a way to confuse and confound. And, incidentally, as a direct tax, it is unconstitutional. They get around this by pretending it is an excise tax. Very sly these bureaucrats!! ; O

  • RD

    Wow some of these post just blow me away at how indoctrinated some of you fools really are. Listen if your getting your news from CNN or msnbc then your an idiot to begin with. You need to start digging deeper and find out the truth before its to late. Hell we have long since gone over the cliff now they are about to dump us in the middle of the ocean without even a life raft. These politicians are nothing more than robber barons with a spending addiction. The more taxes they collect the more they spend giving [expletive deleted] away to the 50% of this country that is on the government tit. I think we need to goahead and go off of the so called fiscal cliff, give Obama everything he ask for and when he tanks the economy, he will finally have to own it!!! There will no longer be anyone to blame but the democrats, the media will no longer be able to protect and lie for them then the American people my finally wake up. I hate this and know it will be painful but may well save us in the long run. And as far as you idiots that are always bitching about our military, who the hell do you think provides the security for you to walk around everyday in ignorant bliss without having to worry about tyranny for now. If we stay on our current path you will find out how it feels to not be free because your beloved government will eventually take your freedom away from you. The sad thing is it will be your own fault, but you liberals will find someone else to blame I’m sure of that!!!!

    • Flashy

      “Listen if your getting your news from CNN or msnbc then your an idiot to begin with” …

      Best you read this before spouting off ….

      http://m.washingtonpost.com/blogs/erik-wemple/wp/2012/12/04/five-lessons-from-fox-news-roger-ailes-david-petraeus-conspiracy/

      • RD

        Flashy,
        I don’t need to read your indoctrinated crap. The stuff you read is why you have the opinions you have. You choose to read and believe the way you want without bothering to look at the big picture. You will figure it out when the country is broke and you are starving. I know for a fact that CNN and msnbc are liberal orginazations that cover for the libs no matter what they are corrupt and have an agenda, we all know it including you! Enough said!

    • DaveH

      You were on the right track until you derailed on the military imperialism, RD.
      Our military isn’t being used to defend our Freedom. They are being used (mostly unknowingly) to enrich Crony Capitalists at the rest of our expense. And they are increasing the number of enemies who would like to contribute to the downfall of our once great country.
      Read this book and learn what’s really going on:
      http://library.mises.org/books/John%20V%20Denson/A%20Century%20of%20War%20Lincoln,%20Wilson%20and%20Roosevelt.pdf

    • http://tlgeer.wordpress.com tlgeer

      And if our country does not go off the cliff will you admit it, or will you blame something else, or someone else, for your being wrong?

  • Flashy

    “I’m a small businessman” … you’re a bookie. While it is a “business”, there’s little difference between the street corner bookie and one from Vegas, except the size of the book. An analogy wuld be the street corner guy and a dispensary. Both are illegal in some states, legit in others. And both would face “moral judgment’ by the dogma of certain religious sects. But…let’s assume we take the generic definition for sake of this thread …

    “I would not raise anyone’s taxes — not one dollar. Saving this economy is all about cutting spending dramatically.” Well…seems this line of thought finds a very small umber of adherents. Let’s take the first year of the disaster aka Bush II. A surplus carried over from Clinton’s budget and economy. Now..let’s take the end of the second year of Bush II and post “temporary tax cuts” which benefitted mostly the 1%. Hmmm…deficit spending. Common sense dictates BOTH a reduction in spending AND revenue increases. But then…common sense would have forecast both in may as well as end of October Romney wasn’t gonna win …

    “We don’t have a tax problem in America; we have a spending and entitlements problem.” Sans the entitlement programs, I would agree. though not in the way Mr. “Romney in a landslide” Root would think. We don’t have a tax problem, that’s correct. There is ample room to increase taxes on the upper incomes without any negative effect to the economy. And there is room for spending cuts…Without much displacement in the economy and social structure, probably $400-500 billion if drawn over 10 years. Done carefully, programs benefitting family farms, small business, new tech / energy, infrastructure and the lower incomes would be relatively untouched…those programs benefitting the larger corporations would be cut or shrunken by a large degree.

    “Let Barack Obama pass a tax increase that sends the economy off the cliff by himself, then he can take the full blame.” nice try and deflecting the cause. Recall Mr. root…as you well know, that it was the House GOP who insisted on the fiscal cliff scenario in return for raising the debt limit and keeping the US credit downgrade dropping only one grade for their idiocy sacrificing the good of this Nation and holding it hostage. The House GOP got exactly what they bargained for. And, if they do nothing…it’s not President Obama raising taxes…it’s their inaction in dealing with what they wrought. Call it anything you want, everyone recognizes who would be at fault, why, and that you are blowin’ hot air on this one.

    “He sees only two choices: Go along with Obama and raise taxes or be painted as “the party of the rich.” ” Errr, those are the only reasonable possible options facing Boehner.

    ” It’s mostly a bunch of hard-working small-business owners (like me) who have no money to spare.” GUFFAW … Mr. Root, i do not believe i have read anything exceeding this comment as showing a total selfishness, greed, and uncaring as that comment. Tell you what, i’ll make you a deal…for all of PLD to read and follow. You are stating that a 3% increase in the tax rates for any gross net personal income dollar earned above $250 G’s you can’t afford nor spare. OK…send your monthly and annual income/expense budget. if i can’t find those monies in that budget, i will spend the next 12 months writing pro PLD posts. Heck, i’ll even put Mises links in them. You may have to do a monthly rather than a weekly manicure etc., and rent a few weeks of the year one of the several vacation homes..but don’t try and snow anyone with that whining ‘woe is me’ line about unable to afford a 3% tax bracket rate increase for personal income above $250 G’s….

    “small-business owners need our money to start and expand our businesses … .” That’s not “personal income’ and thus not what the tax rate increase addresses. Such is a business expense and allocated to the business ledger. You are incorporated are you not? Almost every small business is … you’re pulling a con job on folks using this whine ..and you know it. Gross net personal income is much different than business income and how it’s reported and ledgered. It is just another example of a typical Conservative/extremist whiny, selfish, greedy, uncaring rant.

    Mr. Root….you’re a bookie. you know pulling a snow job requires it to be close to reality with just enough of a twist to make it “seem’ like it’s real. What you’ve written today is akin to trying to say there’s an even point spread on the Duke/Poduck U. Community College basketball game and one should lay money on Podunk U.

    Get real….

    • Paul Wells

      And yours, Flashy, is just another typical leftist/socialist, redistributionist, wealth confiscatory, make the successful pay out the nose for their success rant. Truly the opposite side of the same coin! Yet somehow, you are “oh so noble, and moral” in your theft from those who create wealth. Yeah…right!

      • Flashy

        Paul…create wealth…the question would be…for whom? The Middle Class has been robbed by the wealthy for nigh onto 30 years now. The most massive redistribution of wealth in the history of Man. the next question is ..why are you so against America and so supportive of the wealthy and Big Corporate America?

      • Paul Wells

        Quite simple, really Flashy. Because I’ve never once been offered a job from a poor person. it is corporations that employ the majority of workers in this country, and it’s always been so. I’m not saying we don’t need tax reform, we surely do. But as one of those middle class you refer to, I’ve never felt “cheated” as you describe by making the rich, richer, and in fact by my labors, i was able to share in the good fortune of the company. I realize not all companies are good to work for, but that’s a different topic.

        That’s the trouble with punishing those who are wealth creators, they’ll simply go elsewhere or cease to create wealth. Then everyone suffers.

      • DaveH

        Flashman says — “The Middle Class has been robbed by the wealthy for nigh onto 30 years now”.
        What else has happened in the last 30 years? Just this:
        http://www.usgovernmentspending.com/spending_chart_1980_2011USb_13s1li011tcn_F1t

        So Flashman is admitting that Big Government is destroying the middle class?

      • GALT

        Re-distributionist? Quite a mouthful……..at what point, do things stolen, or gained by
        fraud and/or deceit, or corruption……….cease to be the result of the “acts” by which
        they were acquired…….a.k.a. “ill gotten gains”…….and become “magically” transformed
        into “legitimate assets”………whose use and future gains, are somehow worthy
        of protection and whose “beneficiaries” are now deemed productive and valuable
        to society and “deserving” of what they had no right to, in the first place?

        Take any, self proclaimed, self reliant, rugged individualist with a “strong work”
        ethic ( also claimed ) at random……like DavidH and give him that desert island,
        where all his “von mises” fantasies originate……..and leave him there, at the peak
        of his physical and intellectual ( hypothetical ) prowess for thirty years.

        Upon returning…..what do you imagine we will find? How many mansions will he have
        built? How much “wealth” will he have accumulated? Books written? Technology
        invented? Bridges constructed? AMBITIONS REALIZED!!!!!!!!

        After all, no ones hand will have been in his pockets…….how many “shiny objects”
        will he have “toiled” to accumulate?

        As for the achievements of our author…….and his “success” as a “sports betting
        analyst” and his so called “documented” claims of both “ability” and “customers
        served”……….the “reality” ( and his credibility ) will be the equivalent, of the
        technological paradise and wealth created and achieved by DavidH.

        Mr Root’s claims CAN BE verified………..as can DavidH ‘s ……….for “history” is
        available to do just that……….BUT one has to make the effort to determine what
        the FACTS of this history ARE……….rather than accept, the “mythology” that
        is being told………for it can only be believed if one chooses to remain “ignorant”
        of the FACTS.

        http://www.thesportsmonitor.com

        Mr Root has made “claims” regarding his “performance” and “ranking” from the above named source……which lists “his results” for

        NFL, College Football, NBA and College Basketball…….so what are the FACTS regarding his performance?

        2011 NFL Season….32 picks required to qualify for ranking sides and totals………..Mr Roots ranking among the 35 people who WERE ranked.

        Mr Root had no ranking……nor was he listed as having “attempted” to compete……since he could not manage to “produce” the two picks a week required to meet the minimum qualification……..

        2011 College Football………minimum 40 picks required to compete.
        Mr Root had no ranking……nor was he listed as having “attempted” to compete……in the 30 people that were ranked, or actually TRIED to be.

        2011/12 College Basketball …..64 picks required……side and/or totals
        31 Ranked, of 60 plus that tried…….Mr Root not listed as having TRIED.

        2011/12 NBA…… 52 picks required for ranking……..with 20 being ranked…………Mr Root………not on list.

        In fact, Mr Root name and picks only appear as…..either those not intended for the contest or with less than the minimum’s required for the contest……with no way to distinguish as to what the intent of the picks were………( although his self proclaimed bio, which is posted here from a reason interview above, can provide a little insight into what this actually means? ) DavidH being the “exception” in this case.

        For those who have even the slightest connection to REALITY, the reason that the “tallest buildings” in Las Vegas are “casino’s”, should not be too difficult to figure out. And this TRUTH is one where the “consumer” actually has access to the “house advantage” that they face in seeking to beat the “odds”.

        The so called, “Sport’s advisory service”, is a confidence game, which preys on people, foolish enough to persist in the notion, that “probablility” can not only be “overcome”, but can be done consistantly in direct contradiction to “all available evidence”……..which is pretty stupid on it’s face……..so that the “potential customer” is either completely ignorant of what probability is, and/ or has already FAILED at doing for himself, what he now expects someone else to do for HIM. based on the CLAIM, that it can be done and has been done.

        An “intelligent person” might consider why and how those tall buildings exist and continue to be built………while Mr. Root’s, “service” is a small rented office which is “shared” with “other” services? ( again, DavidH being the exception. )

        BTW this only includes the “obvious questions” regarding the “evidence”……….which does not include the “means” by which these services operate……but there is a description, also posted here, before the “facts” regarding Mr. Root were blocked. ( censored )

    • GALT

      Actually Flash, we was the ‘employee” of a bookie, the “Mirage” if memory serves….
      although then he was Wayne Root……..his title and job function was “Sports Book Director” and “odds maker” where he attempted to set the “line” for “bets” offered by
      the casino.

      He then sold his “name” to Jim Feist, who runs a “sports betting service” and pretended to
      be able to “pick winners” against the “line” for various ‘sports’……..a skill which he
      did not have….and doesn’t really matter…….because, “sport’s betting services” are
      scams……..and at the time Jim Feist had eight different “tout’s” claiming to be able
      to beat the “spread”…..and the “compulsive gamblers” were simply passed from one to the other……….which if nothing else explains Mr. Root’s “moral grounding” as it regards
      “ripping people off” in the name of “profit”……

      He is not involved in either activity at the moment, nor has he been for some time….
      now he is simply a “failure”…….. ( at everything else he has attempted ) whose has
      yet to hit bottom……..although. from what he has said……..that could happen at any time.

      • DaveH

        No matter how hard you try to bring others down to your level, Galt, you will still be a worthless Socialist.

      • GALT

        Did you say something DavidH?

        Does “voluntary transaction” = scam or fraud?

      • GALT

        It would now seem that this site is “blocking posts” regarding the “subjects”
        character and claimed accomplishments………

  • boyscout

    Just to bring Mr. Root back to reality; yes, we do have a taxing problem (or rather are riddled with taxing problems) that survives in a very corrupt system that requires no small changes to effect repair. Much more consideration should go to loop hole closure and exemptions or a workable flat tax solution. And, although I am no confidante of Mr. Buffett,I am neither jealous of his accrued wealth nor a recipiant of trickle down employment from said wealth. Neither do I believe in subsidizing any of the corporatist monsters in the present scheme of excesses.
    Now for small business owners 250K+: do you actually employ anyone? (kudos if you do) or are you claiming all profits are insufficient to support a “middle class” lifestyle for two (or one)? Have you any idea how the un(under)employed survive? Is that a Sunday morning only Christianity that I smell under the stench of sundry colognes? Is it really capitalism ond not corruption that you so quiclky defend? No need to answer me, if you just answer for yourself.

  • mark

    Notice Wayne has nothing to say about jacking up taxes on the Koch brothers. Right-wing billionaires who want to keep every cent of their often ill-gotten gains are sacred heroes. Left-wing billionaires who want to pay a little more of their often ill-gotten gains (the proposed tax increase is a very small one) are traitors to the nation. How convenient.

    • George E

      Mark,

      The difference here is that the Koch’s have lobbied for lower tax rates and less spending, not higher tax rates and more spending like many of the billionaires on the left have done, and are doing. Koch’s are not hypocrites in this debate. Buffett is a hypocrite because he doesn’t intend to pay more tax to the government.

    • eddie47d

      You got that right and yes the right wingers have their teams of hypocrites who are so damn coy about that!

    • DaveH

      Perhaps you could explain to us, mark, how their gains were “ill-gotten”?

      • Nadzieja Batki

        Simple, because mark says so.

  • Larry S

    I believe the number of days this tax increase will fund the federal government is 8.5 days, who is kidding who?

    Just hold on folks!

  • Deerinwater

    I must disagree, we have both! a taxing problem and a spending problem.

    • Warrior

      Careful there deer, some may think you’re on the road to recovery.

      • Deerinwater

        From what pray tell? ~ It’s obvious we had a taxing problem, ~ why suggest otherwise? Because Mitch McConnell said so? He don’t know beans.

        Mitch McConnell spent the majority if his 4 years efforts attempting to make Obama a single term President! ~maybe now he can earn is money and get his assets back to work.

      • DaveH

        It is just a matter of experience that if you let the Federal Government take more money, then they will spend more money.
        Here is a chart of Federal Revenues from 1950 to 2011:
        http://www.usgovernmentrevenue.com/revenue_chart_1950_2011USb_13s1li011tcn_F1f

      • George E

        DaveH,

        Great reference. Thanks.

      • DaveH

        And here is a chart of Federal Government Spending from 1950 to 2011:
        http://www.usgovernmentspending.com/spending_chart_1950_2011USb_13s1li011tcn_F1f

    • George E

      Deer,

      What I think you’re saying is that we need to balance the budget, or get closer to a balanced budget, however it’s done. Most of us on the right would definitely agree with that. The question becomes how should we do it? It can be done by increasing taxes and/or reducing spending, however, the one thing I think we all ought to be able to agree on is that we shouldn’t do anything that would cause the economy to slow down in the process because that would be a recipe for extending the pain and making the problem even worse by reducing normal tax receipts which would result in even higher deficits with the need for accompanying higher taxes (rates and/or fewer deductions/credits) and greater spending reductions, etc.

      The “golden goose” of our economy is the small-to-medium sized businesses and the people who work for them. This is where the majority of our economic growth and jobs are created. Whatever we do, we should be very careful not to do anything that might, or would, disincentivize this group of businesses to reduce growth, like passing tougher government regulations or higher taxes on them. If we can protect this group while we debate the appropriate actions to take, then any solution we come up with might not be optimum, but probably won’t take the country over the fiscal cliff either.

      • Flashy

        Nothing proposed by the administration plan hits small business or the family farm. The GOP proposal hits both….

      • George E

        Humm………….maybe it depends on how you define small business. I’m thinking this includes businesses with revenues up to at about $50M/yr. I’m guessing that your thinking of businesses much smaller.

      • Deerinwater

        I certainly agree with you George, ~ address the needs of the middle without just breaking it off in the more affluent/wealthy. ~ 37% Federal Income tax is approaching robbery for any income bracket.

        But addressing the needs of what I would call middle and lower middle income brackets will prime the pump and get us back pumping water again. The money will flow once again.

        I would not say that it’s not being done in someways today ~ but we need much more. ~

        And above all, ~ get the wealthy ~ actually paying taxes! ~ “SOME” have managed to avoid paying taxes completely by many different means. ~ They are cleaver people. They want to live and enjoy what we have in America , security, opportunity, laws that protect our food, water, air but they are not helping pay for it. Let the Romney’s of America go live offshore if they don’t want to help shoulder the load. ~ Let they enjoy island life, the smell of dead fish with flies and clouds of mosquitoes.

        This argument of Federal Taxation legality is an argument that perhaps we should be having as we search for solutions . But until there is a FIX , be a good citizen and stay on top of being current ~ and allow me to say, I find it a b1tch to keep current! and if anyone is not, ~ they are doing much better then I.

        We must adapt the proper “language” to address these economic problems that we face today and refrain from this foolish polarizing language that flies about.

  • MD

    Thank GOD Romney lost. These ridiculously extremist rants can be kept in the corner along with the rest of the other crying babies.
    You don’t run a country ignoring 1/2 the population.

    • Warrior

      Tax the “pacifier”. I like that too. See, if you put your mind to it, you can come up with all sorts of new “revenue”.

    • Paul Wells

      Oh, you mean the 1/2 that doesn’t work…but never fails to vote? Yeah…I can understand how if you have one candidate that promises you free stuff (that others pay for), versus a candidate who offers you a job…gee, I can understand how that is a really tough choice!

      /sarcasm

      • eddie47d

        Paul Wells always forgets about the “free goodies” that trickle upwards to make the fat cats even fatter. Listening to Paul one would think he’d be perfectly happy living under the British Monarch. Where a select few controlled everything and that is exactly what is happening in todays America. The King of England has been replaced by Corporate Elites who buy all the votes they want!

      • http://yahoo charlene

        so you must be an obamanight, a dumacrate, who will send this county into a tail spend, with his tax and spend. you are crazy as a bed bug.we dont need someone like obama who is a socialist pig, who like a hog hogs, up the tax payers money. id reather see someone like romney who cold have worked with the congress then tell themits my way or the hightway. what kind of moron does this, except one who wishes to destory this county, i guess you are one of them.

      • Paul Wells

        Of course he is, charlene, edda has never been right, ever! Not even once by accident. He believes in communism and the collapse of the USA, union goons running everything, and the unionized worker controlling all government. It’ll be a cold day in the nether regions of course, before any thinking person allows that to happen, but you just can’t educate the uneducatable, or rather the brainwashed/indoctrinated comrades, like edda.

      • eddie47d

        I won’t even respond to Charlene’s ridiculous and hateful spiel. Although I doubt if either her or Paul can figure it out.Please let us know if you are speaking for Conservatives or the Republican Party so I can properly address your anger. Conservatives don’t like being labeled as Republicans so I don’t want to upset the apple cart. That way I can zero in on the real culprit!

    • George E

      Obviously, that’s true, but which 1/2 are you talking about, the makers or the takers?

      • Deerinwater

        “Oh, you mean the 1/2 that doesn’t work…but never fails to vote?”

        I don’t believe there is a such a group.

        The GOP had traditionally enjoys a 27% loyal vote, ~ but even they work or have worked.

        This notion is just something someone made up and it’s stuck in some peoples minds and keeps being repeated like it might be true.

        I wish half of all Americans did vote, working or otherwise.

      • Karolyn

        In my experience, living in a poor rural area with lots on welfare, the “takers” (welfare recipients, cheaters or not) DO NOT VOTE! They just expect things to keep going their way. They have no clue about politics and what’s going on in this country. They live in their own little worlds.

      • George E

        A balanced conversation/debate on issues like this ought to take both sides (makers/takers) into account. Many of the makers are also takers to some degree. Life isn’t black and white, and we ought to take that into account to be fair and get to an optimum solution. What we generally hear are arguments from folks defending one end, or the other, of this continuum. My guess is we need to focus on protecting the folks in the middle of this continuum rather than folks on either end because they are working and contributing as best they can, but also need some assistance to get by.

      • eddie47d

        Thanks for the common sense answer George E

  • nc

    To Mr. Landslide Root, The Irrelevant: How many tax cuts has Obama provided for the small business owners since he took office? I missed that number in your rant!

    • Warrior

      I can answer that from “FIRST HAND” experience – 0.

      • Flashy

        Wanna place a small wager on that Warrior? You can send the monies to my PayPal account …

      • DaveH

        Is that where the Boiler Room deposits your pay check, Flashman?

      • Warrior

        Edda, “barry’s tax breaks” consist of carryovers from previous implemented tax laws and wait – A TAX CREDIT FOR HIRING UNEMPLOYED! I’ll spend $90k just to get a $2K CREDIT when I DON’t HAVE THE BUSINESS INCOME TO SUPPORT MORE PERSONEL. GO back to your handlers and get some better intel!

    • eddie47d

      So much for experience Warrior. Looks up Politics USA and the number of tax cuts for small businesses has been 18. I’m sure business expenses have gone up so maybe you didn’t notice.

  • To Tell The Truth

    Obozo will find a way to destroy our economy no matter what. That’s his ultimate goal to make it easier for his Muslim masters to take over America. Cripple our military, and keep kissing the arses of his Muslim Brotherhood masters.

    • Doc Sarvis

      How is President Obama crippling our military? He proposes to give them the budget they asked for, he is getting them out (largely) of two useless situations, he kept them out of Egypt (largely), he is giving benefits to veterans they didn’t have before.

      • Paul Wells

        Right, Doc Sarvis…you keep telling yourself that as the middle east simmers and then erupts and spills over to our lands. It’s never a problem…until it is! And by just standing idly by, leading from behind, the world continues to become ever more dangerous!

      • Doc Sarvis

        I am for strategic use of our military where needed and smart application of those forces when they are deployed. Iraq was not strategic nor smartly applied. Afghanistan was not smartly applied.

      • eddie47d

        You’re way off topic Paul Wells and once again blaming Obama for all the ills of the world. You must have purchased a few of Nadzieja”s blinders. The military is strong Paul Wells and the Military Industrial Complex needs to quit abusing them for corporate profits. Private enterprise has turned our military into their personal mercenary army and that needs to be halted. We have a long line of Presidents who have poked their noses into the Middle East stirring up that hornets nest. So between them and the Corporates you can give them “thanks” for al Qaeda and the Muslim Brotherhood being so angry. In other words “we spilled into their lands first”.

      • S.C.Murf

        What in God’s name do you mean Iraq not smartly applied? Our military leaders and our young men put Iraq’s military DOWN in a matter of days (excellent job), was it right and just, no. Are you writing your own prescription’s again for your mood altering drugs? I believe you not to be a doc at all but just a nurse. Get real

        up the hill
        aurborne

      • DaveH

        Those of you who think like Paul — that US military excursions are to protect our Freedom — need to read this book and learn what’s really going on:
        http://library.mises.org/books/John%20V%20Denson/A%20Century%20of%20War%20Lincoln,%20Wilson%20and%20Roosevelt.pdf

      • DaveH

        Here’s the real reason our Government is militarily involved in the Middle East:
        http://2012patriot.wordpress.com/2011/04/28/new-libyan-gold-dinar/

      • http://yahoo bob peters

        Liberals are screwing up the country big time….It’s obvious obama and his harem og NWO freaks are intentionally trying to destroy the economy…Transformation at it’s communist best…All your silly rhetoric is getting old …You Pendejos are just about to get a good a-ss kicking..so keep pushing your ignorant luck….

      • eddie47d

        Bush and Reagan were NWO so are they commies?

      • DaveH

        What difference does it make, Eddie, if they call themselves Communists or something else while they make a slave out of you?

    • Ned Roberts

      Very humorous.

      • http://ontheramparts.wordpress.com drtch

        Bob, this is a “Red Herring.” The issue has nothing to do with “Liberals.” It has to do with the Republicrats, most of whom support the NWO/Globalist Agenda (and the associated “Free Trade” nonsense) which is traitorous to the American republic and its ideals. It has no loyalty to anyone, but money and power (and special interests). If we turn off the damn “Military Industrial Intelligence” machine, and tax everyone at a very reasonable rate (even better, a straight 10% rate), we’d have plenty of money for most everything. And, BTW, the last several presidents, Bush, Clinton, Bush and Obama have all been NWO/CFR/TLC/Bilderberger presidents.

  • Ed

    All true, but you have to add other born-rich millionaires that pay lower tax-rates than the middle class like Romney.

    I say drop ALL exemptions and rebates, everyone in the country pays the same rate and taxes can be calculated on a 3X5 postcard. A few poor people will have some skin in the game and the rich criminals will have to pay the same rate as everyone else and lose the exemptions and shelters on their yachts and summer homes in the Bahamas.

    • Paul Wells

      Fine by me…but you’ll never sell that to the teeming “gimme, gimme, I want free stuff” masses. We’re too far gone for that, I’m afraid.

      • Flashy

        Yet, if you read Root’s article, that is EXACTLY what Root is saying about himself …

      • DaveH

        It is, Flashman? Explain that one to us, if you can.

      • phideaux

        Flashy your jealousy of those who work for their money and happen to be more successful than you is showing.

      • http://tlgeer.wordpress.com tlgeer

        ““gimme, gimme, I want free stuff””

        Who, exactly, are these people, and how do you know that this is what they think?

      • Nadzieja Batki

        tlgeer, who is saying anything about the entitlement parasites doing any thinking. It is a grabbing to gorge themselves because they believe that the entitlements will be taken away at any moment. Even a parasite fears that its host will defeat it.

      • http://tlgeer.wordpress.com tlgeer

        ” It is a grabbing to gorge themselves because they believe that the entitlements will be taken away at any moment.”

        And you know that this is a fact because . . . ?

    • http://yahoo charlene

      half if not more in washington pays, no taxs or little. so how do you make them pay taxs on them self. half of all the people obama has put into office doesnt pay there taxs. where are the i.r.s. on them. first clean up the goverment on there taxs befor you go after anyone else.

    • eddie47d

      That takes us back to Crony Capitalism where Washington and the Banksters scratch each others back. The deal has been in for some time now and they become super rich while the Middle Class falters. Its all dishonest money but they control the laws and the loopholes.

      • DaveH

        What’s your solution, Eddie?

      • eddie47d

        Bust politicians who are involved in Insider Trading and enact stronger consequences. The exact same thing with Hedge Fund Managers and Bankers. If they can’t do the time then they shouldn’t do the crime.

      • Warrior

        Well, edda, that will solve the “term limit” problem. Good plan!

      • DaveH

        Oh yeah, Eddie, that’s realistic. Why didn’t somebody think of that 100 years ago?

      • http://tlgeer.wordpress.com tlgeer

        “Crony Capitalism”

        When you look back at history, and think about it, all capitalism is Crony Capitalism.

        I don’t know which talking head came up with the phrase, and I really don’t care, but it’s the same old changing meanings to benefit their readership/viewers/listeners, not to mention their ratings. The higher the ratings the more income they get because more company’s advertise for their shows. The talking heads have a vested interest in keeping people unhappy and angry. It keeps the ratings up.

    • DaveH

      Ed says — “I say drop ALL exemptions and rebates, everyone in the country pays the same rate and taxes can be calculated on a 3X5 postcard”.

      I say, let’s really be Fair. Let’s make all adults pay the same for their Government. Why should anybody get to vote how to spend other peoples’ money? If they want that Big Wasteful Government, over other peoples’ objections, then the least they can do is to pay the same amount that the people, who don’t even want what the Government offers, have to pay.
      If they don’t like that, then they can vote for much Smaller, less Intrusive Government.

      • Smilee

        By your method those over $250,000.00 of taxable income will pay the same in taxes as someone on a full time job at minimum wage so what you are saying take all that man;s income and more thus putting him with zero income to live on and deep in debt with no means of paying it. Your badly math deficient because your numbers just do not add up. Fairness is based on equally proportionate amount of your taxable income or even more fairer on the adjusted gross income. You seldom make any sense davy.

      • DaveH

        Sleepee says — “Fairness is based on equally proportionate amount of your taxable income or even more fairer on the adjusted gross income”.
        More fairer? I think it’s time for your nap, Sleepee.

      • DaveH

        If anything, the poor should pay a larger portion of the taxes, since they typically collect more freebies from the Government.

  • Karolyn

    “An income from $250,000 – $500,000 is hardly rich.” Tell that to the millions of people in this country living at or below the poverty line.

    • Ed

      It depends largely on where you live. In many parts of the country that would indeed make you rich in my estimation, maybe not “stinking rich” like Romney and Obama (both over $10 million) but definitely rich. However in places like San Jose or Manhattan half a million is not even enough money to buy a modest 1,500 sq/ft residence.

    • Warrior

      And for good measure, let’s keep the printing machine going to insure they stay there. In fact, if we keep it going we can get loads more to join em. LOL!

    • Timothy Crenshaw

      Yes or we could tell that to the billionaires making over $100,000,000 a year. If you want the RICH to pay their fair share then pick on the RICH. A new business start up costs someone in the upper middle class their entire earnings for an entire year. What do the live on and how do they make payroll for any business they own when they are paying their entire years income to invest in creating more jobs? Now look at the billionaires in this country who don’t even notice if they loose $500,000 on a stock drop. THOSE are the ones who are rich. You are a mean spirited and spiteful woman who hates others that work hard for success while defending the billionaires who pay for nothing except the lobbyists and mainstream media who keep the ignorant masses from seeing how people like you do not care about anyone but yourself and your twisted ideals. They pay for that because it means the hand never makes to their own pocket because they know the $500,000 a year working upper middle class cannot afford an entire law firm to hide their money for them.

      • eddie47d

        LOL! Timothy, I doubt very much that she would ever defend billionaires who stiff the rest of us. There is also nothing “mean” about her so you rather lost your message.

      • Karolyn

        Timothy says: “You are a mean spirited and spiteful woman who hates others that work hard for success while defending the billionaires who pay for nothing except the lobbyists and mainstream media who keep the ignorant masses from seeing how people like you do not care about anyone but yourself and your twisted ideals.”

        You talkin to me? Where on earth did you get that from what I said? When speaking of hate, speak for yourself. I hate no one and very rarely even use the word hate to address situations.

      • DaveH

        If you don’t hate those people, Karolyn, then what is it that drives you to help yourself contemptuously to their money? Is that Your way of expressing Love?

      • eddie47d

        No one likes crooked politicians or crooked business people Dave H. It isn’t always about government and some of us happen to dispise those crooked business people a little more. You can hate government all you want but that doesn’t take away from what egregious business people do. Wanting corporates to be fair and honest has nothing to do with “envying their money”. Theft comes in many forms and not all bussiness people are honest.

      • Karolyn

        Dave – How do you come up with these inane responses? As I’ve said before, over and over, it does not matter what I say; you will find some way of coming back at me in a negative way.

      • DaveH

        Poor innocent Karolyn. Time to pull out your Magic Mirror for a little ego booster.

  • Warrior

    Wayne, I like your thinking. And maybe California’s millionares wouldn’t mind ponying up a few more percent as well. And let’s strip those “unions” of their “exempt” status. Remember, it’s for the childen! Hey, this “fairness” thing may turn out to be a great idea after all. Absolutely boehner, GO BIG or GO HOME!

    • maggiemoo

      Warrior, I like the way you think! We could really ask a lot “for the children!”

  • Doc Sarvis

    Where is the evidence that increasing taxes on the top 1-2% will send the economy off the cliff? There is A LOT more evidence that giving the same group tax breaks WILL NOT generate more jobs.

    Mr. Root should define what he means by the “upper middle class”. A very soft phrase to con the reader into believing his version of the economy.

    Mr. Root tries to portray Buffet as a fat cat, which he is, while downplaying his own status from his Granite Star on the Las Vegas Walk of Stars (right up their with Elvis, Frank Sinatra, and Wayne Newton – they’ve all done quite well). A best selling author, cyndicated columnist for FoxNews.com and The Washington Times, national spokesman for several companies, etc.; yes, Mr. Root has it tough. I seriously doubt that a slightly higher rate on folks earning over a quarter of a million dollars a year is going to break them or even stop them from hiring that next nanny or factory worker (if they even considered hiring someone who lives in the U.S.)

    • Warrior

      I say, since our legislators won’t cut their own salaries, boehner should propose a special tax rate just for themselves and the rest of the gubmint largesse. This could turn out to be national “tax your least favorite group” day. Send your ideas about “fairness” to your “congresscreature”. Let’s get involved. Afterall, it’s gubmint by the “people”, right?

      • Doc Sarvis

        What the President and Democrats in Congress are advocating IS raising taxes on themselves, just not exclusively.

      • Warrior

        Doc – I would REALLY prefer they take a pay cut. Get real my friend.

      • Doc Sarvis

        Warrior, you suggesting that Congress should vote themselves a pay cut – and you are telling ME to get real?

      • eddie47d

        I will agree with one thing the Republicans have advocated for and that is to close loopholes for those same wealthy that Wayne rails against. I don’t care if Warren Buffet or James Koch get nailed. No more special favors for the “job creators” who aren’t creating jobs. Crony Capitalism is eating up America and they are also picking winners and losers. The wealthy have scammed the system for too long and their world is surreal where they don’t give a damn about the Constitution or your next door neighbor. I’m tired of the government and private companies putting us between a rock and a hard place and neither is my “best friend”.

      • http://yahoo charlene

        where is sora, in this he has as much money as buffet. and the goverment will hide its money and only the little guy will get taxed. have you ever seen a poor goverment person, they may have little means going in but end up a million are. look at obama, he stared with 2mill. now hes got over 11mill. and thats no counting all he has taken, and even the little towns wine up stelling thousands from the people they are suppost to serve.in other words the GOVERMENT STELLS AND KEEPS FOR IT SELF, and then if thats not bad enought we give trillions, and millions to the world, we support it. and the dead beats here. in other words STOP SPENDING THE HARD WORKING TAX PAYERS. think this way the money we use to support the other countrys we cound put into social sercurty, and med.care. think about that. dont need to work yourself into the grave and never collect what you paid into.

      • rendarsmith

        Yeah right Doc! LOL! Who do you think you’re fooling? We’ve seen Obama’s frequent vacations. That guy is making no sacrifices whatsoever. Try a different strategy, and put some thought into it this time.

      • eddie47d

        You are partially right Charlene yet partially wrong too. We have costly wars and foreign intervention because of Corporate interests who go to Washington with hat in hard asking the taxpayer to fund their extravaganzas. As an example most oil deals in the Middle East benefit their own Elites or Kings. The people see they are being used and rebel against the rulers. They blame America and our government eagerly sends in troops. Its always the same Catch-22 whether in Iraq or Libya. As far as Obama having $11 million most of that money came from his book sales so in others words he earned it.Besides that Presidents make $450,000 a year plus before 2008 Michelle was making $500,000 per year. Now if you can find that Obama is involved with Insider Trading whether in or out of the political scene then I will listen.

      • GALT

        Well, pay for the government worker….is quite easy to calculate…..as it is a “wage”, and since the “government” has since determined the “standard deduction” for the wage earner………( and their dependents )….and taxes that…..and everything above that…..the logic MUST BE……..that that is sufficient to satisfy……that

        ““A man must live by his work, and his wages must be at least enough to maintain him. They must even on most occasions be somewhat more: otherwise it would be impossible for him to bring up a family and the RACE of such workmen could not last beyond the first generation.”

        So whatever that “wage” is…….that is “not taxable”, must therefor be an “amount” deemed
        as a “minimum” to meet the necessities of life………. ( or survival )

        Surely any “elected official” would and should be happy with such a return, for
        “temporary public service”? And to make it interesting, there should be an additional
        legal restriction, that no other funds may be accessed or used, while holding such an elected position……..or from any other source.

        If nothing else, it would certainly focus the conversation of the “elected official” to
        a more pragmatic understanding, as it regards the effects of what they choose to
        legislate?

      • Michael J.

        Galt,
        What makes you think you can convince the Fox to change his methods of guarding the Hen House?

      • Old Henry

        I have advocated taxing all registered democrats at 90% for a long, long time. It’s an even better idea now.

        We should also tax all politicians at 90%.

        We should also eliminate Soetoro’s, Biden’s salary along with Mooch’s staff.

        While we are at it, eliminate the democrat leadership’s salary / benefits in the Congress.

        It’s only FAIR.

      • GALT

        Michael, I have no expectation of convincing “anyone” of “anything”……..

        This is simply previous material that has been re-arranged to suggest a means
        of determining the “proper compensation” for elected officials…….in accordance
        with the appropriate mythology of “the founders” regarding public service…….and
        using other terms which have shifted “legally” and otherwise over the years…….

      • America Rules

        ““A man must live by his work, and his wages must be at least enough to maintain him. They must even on most occasions be somewhat more: otherwise it would be impossible for him to bring up a family and the RACE of such workmen could not last beyond the first generation.”

        Such a Nobel statement, but like most communist ideas, is total deceit.

        A “man” must live by his work, but a slave needs to be supported from birth to grave.

        America has been creating a slave state for the past 50 years and the democratic cult is the beneficiary of this disease.

      • GALT

        America Rules??????

        Which ‘communist’ would you be referring to????????

        If nothing else it will be good for a laugh…….

      • GALT

        Even funnier since the author of your quote is………….ADAM SMITH!

    • http://aol Jen

      If they tax the rich higher rates, which includes some businesses and corporations who do you think is going to pay more for their products to make up for the tax?? We are.

      • Doc Sarvis

        You assume that the rich are operating on the finacial margins. I seriously doubt that Mitt Romney will do without his car elevator in one or more of his homes just because his tax rate it slightly elevated. You also ignore the role that price competition among competitors plays in establishing the price of a product.

      • Paul Wells

        Well said, Jen, you’ve hit on the real irony of this situation. This is *exactly* how they get something that sounds so fair and right to punish the middle class, the very ones they proclaim to protect. Congresspeople and The WH are like a baby’s diaper, and need to be changed often…for the same reason!

      • eddie47d

        Jen; Businesses are raising prices like gangbusters as it is so increased taxes would just be another excuse for them. Its all about feeding the shareholders not the consumer of the product. Investors have become another scam which drives prices up and Wall Street no longer plays fair. I agree that Corporate taxes should either remain the same or even lowered for the more you tax them the higher cost for their product. I do say tax the heck out of CEOs and either cut out their loopholes and golden parachutes or try them for fraud. ( Those with investments need to stop being coned and stop feeding the CEOs piggy bank because they are not earning what they are taking in) Their incomes are outrageous and its no longer about free enterprise but gouging the consumer. They have all become arrogant and deceitful and expect us to blindly accept their behavior.

      • Flashy

        “which includes some businesses and corporations” <— jen

        business income and net personal income are two different beasts. The income tax rates are for personal income, not business.

      • Caveman101

        Flashman, do you know what an “S” corporation is?

      • GALT

        Caveman. do you know what an LLC is, or MLP is?

        how about what a non sequitur is?

        “Is our children learning?” well “is you”?

      • Michael J.

        Jen,
        You are exactly correct. Taxes and urine trickle down-hill at the behest of gravity, just ask Ed Asner.

        Don’t listen to the pathetic panderings proclaimed by the present plethora of paid political parrots who persistently plead otherwise.

      • Michael J.

        Galt,
        Well, I’m a little rusty because it’s been several decades since my days at FU, but I think LLC stands for languishing lies committer. Twas subject matter light years above my head and subsequently never covered in the aquisition of my shade tree degree. My professor assured me that it was of little consequence to me and was reserved for those being groomed for the highest slots in government, as his hooked ear-ring fell into his plate of suishi… kind of reminded me of when my Dad took me fishin.

        MLP? State of the art Mini Long Play record players you could take anywhere. So compact and practical that many Rap music bands still use
        them to this day.

        Non Sequitur? Well, I looked that one up and the encyclopaedia said: See Galt

      • Flashy

        “Flashman, do you know what an “S” corporation is?”

        yep. In short and brief, a corporate entity where it may take business income, apply business tax breaks, depreciations, write offs etc, maintain the corporate liability shield … and the net income may be taken by the shareholders as ordinary income. “may’ is a key phrase as residual income may be set aside for later distribution.

        I believe, though i’d have to check, that ordinary income may then have ordinary income tax bennies such as mortgage deduction etc applied …

        Bottom line, there is “business income’ and there is “personal income”…an S corporation has no bearing on this debate

      • GALT

        A “little rusty”, Michael? Trust me……your brain is completely “oxidized”!

      • Michael J.

        Galt,
        At last, a brief response. Outstanding! There might be room for you after all amongst the field of humans.

    • Timothy Crenshaw

      Mr. Root defined the upper middle class over and over. Obviously you are a liberal progressive with selective hearing. $250,000 to $500,000 a year is his definition of upper middle class. You contend they have it just great and are doing so well they can afford to pay more. Do you know how much ONE McDonald’s franchise license costs? $250,000 of non-borrowed assets just to start discussions with the corporation. The upper middle class does not need money to reinvest? Are you stupid? You complain they do not need it and do not create jobs. It is a proven fact which no economist or elected official will argue that small businesses create the jobs in this country. You are massively uninformed and should not be participating in discussion where your opinion is more important to you than your facts. I love how you say the upper middle class can take the hit and completely gloss over the insanely wealthy making 10 to 100 or more million dollars a year cannot just take the whole burden themselves. Why is that? That is because you know it is those billionaires who are supporting your liberal progressive agenda since they know Obama is not going to make them pay their fair share. They know that if you are a billionaire instead of a millionaire that Obama is your best friend and your money is safe as long as he is in charge. Please stop your lying, posturing and ignorant rhetoric. If the someone who makes up to $500,000 a year can afford to pay more then they should have to because someone making $500,000,000 a year can pay enough to cover them. Warren Buffet alone is worth over $44,000,000,000 AFTER giving away $38,000,000,000 to Bill Gates charity. If you are telling me he cannot afford to pay enough to keep the upper middle class from being unable to expand and invest in their own businesses then you are a communist looking to destroy this country. This is simple fact.

      • Doc Sarvis

        When did I say that small businesses do not create jobs?

        You wrote; “I love how you say the upper middle class can take the hit and completely gloss over the insanely wealthy making 10 to 100 or more million dollars a year cannot just take the whole burden themselves.” Where did I say that?

        You accuse me of “lying, posturing and ignorant rhetoric” yet it is you that fabricated my position.

      • Flashy

        “$250,000 to $500,000 a year is his definition of upper middle class.”

        OK…let’s take the $500,000. It’s income OVER $250 G’s, so that has $250,000 subject to a 3% increase. 3% of 250,000 is $7500. OK..so you’re position is someone with a gross net personal taxable income of $500,000 is unable to afford an additional $7500 in taxes? On an income of $41,666.66/month, an additional $625 is gonna break or make the person in his home life ?

        Criminey….

      • Karolyn

        Timmy seems to have a reading comprehension problem. He’s projecting beliefs on people that aren’t there.

      • Daveh234

        Timmy seems to know more than everyone else. I hate when nit-wits nit-pic!
        The whole “Fiscal Cliff” is a fabricated item. We need to generate revenues via added taxes, lessening deductions, corralling waste in programs and a general reduction in spending across many fronts.

      • DaveH

        Flashman says — “Criminey”.
        Yes indeed.
        Because the issue isn’t the higher taxes. The issue is — Who can spend the money more wisely, more efficiently, Government or the original owner of that money? We all know how wastefully Government spends money, and why not? They didn’t earn that money. Easy come, easy go. Not so for the people they took the money from. They worked hard, worked long hours, sacrificed leisure time, took personal and financial risks, and the myriad other things required to earn money. So of course they’re going to be more careful that they spend their money wisely.
        And they earned that money from Voluntary purchasers of their Goods or Services. Not so for Big Government which Takes the money by Force.
        Capitalists invest much of their money in Productive Factors — machinery, plants, workers, office supplies, etc., which allows them to produce more and cheaper goods for all of us. Government just consumes that money leaving us with fewer and more costly goods and services as a result of the diminished Production.
        Big Government is a logical failure, and it is a practical failure, as evidenced by this report:
        http://www.freetheworld.com/2012/EFW2012-complete.pdf

        So you might wonder — Why do people like Flashman try so hard to manipulate you to do what is bad for you? Obviously, they are benefiting at Your expense.

      • DaveH

        Don’t let ignorant Liberal Progressives, like Doc Sarvis, Flashman, Karolyn, and Dave234, rob you of your futures. Fight back. Educate yourself. You can start that education by reading this well-written book by Kal Kelly:
        http://library.mises.org/books/Kel%20Kelly/The%20Case%20for%20Legalizing%20Capitalism.pdf

      • Flashy

        Sigh…here comes DaveH with his inane outside of reality statements..and Mises links.

        So DaveH….tell us … what state/nation has ever been successful … heck, let’s say for 20 years…using your economic theories (or that of Mises) ?

      • GALT

        STEAL THIS POST………USE AS INSTRUCTED……………..

        a brief excerpt from the book Econned.

        “In 1776, Adam Smith published The Wealth of Nations. In it he argued that the uncoordinated actions of large numbers of individuals, each acting out of self interest, sometimes produced , as if by “an invisible hand,”results that were beneficial to broader society. Smith also pointed out that self interested actions frequently led to injustice or even ruin. He fiercely criticized both how employers colluded with each other to keep wages low, as well as the ” savage injustice ” that European mercantilist interests had “commited with impunity” in colonies in Asia and the Americas.

        Smith’s ideas were cherry picked and turned into a simplistic ideology that now dominates university economics departments. This theory proclaims that the “invisible hand” ensures that economic interest will always lead to the best outcomes imaginable. It follows that any restrictions on the profit seeking activities of individuals and corporations interfer with this invisible hand, and therefor are “inefficient” and nonsensical.

        According to this line of thinking, individuals have perfect knowledge both of what they want and everything happening in the world at large,and so they pass there lives making intelligent decisions. Prices may change in ways that appear random, but this randomness follows predictable and unchanging rules and is never violently chaotic. It is therefore possible for corporations to use clever techniques to reduce and even eliminate the risks associated with their business. The result is a stable productive economy that represents the apex of civilization.

        This heartwarming picture airbrushes out nearly all of the real business world.”

        INSTRUCTIONS FOR USE………..this has been specifically selected to respond to the von mises link being used by DavidH…….the kelly book……….for those who insist on engaging him………( pointless )……..which will either force him to stop using that link…….or actually attempting a response to it’s refutation which is “complete” within the excerpt………..and something which he is unable to do……..it should go without saying that……….you should have sufficient understanding of the excerpt…..and be smart enough to restrict whatever the attempted response might be……..to avoid being distracted from that is actually contained within it……..( it is all you need….. so unless you LIKE wasting time…..use it )

      • Kate8

        Heh heh. Read ‘em and weep, lefties. This just in:

        http://raymondpronk.wordpress.com/2012/03/10/the-smoking-gun-barack-obama-a-k-a-barry-soetoro-at-occidental-college-claimed-he-was-a-foreign-citizen-on-financial-aid-application-videos/

        I wonder why the courts are listening now. It seems he’s been ordered to produce his records, and the WH is in an uproar.

        Want to hear that we told you so?

        WE TOLD YOU SO.

      • larry ryan

        Flashy casually determines who can pay what. Every, EVERY circumstance is individual. One size does NOT fit all. In Nevada a couple years ago they tried to pass a 1% tax on gross business income. Even ran ads saying businesses were greedy if they wouldn’t pay a measly 1% tax. The key word, of course, is GROSS income. Before expenses. If your gross income is $100.00 and it costs you $90.00 to run your business, how much of your net income is that 1%?
        Obamacare. My cousin has an auto repair shop. When Obama took office he had 7 employees. Now has 4. Had to let 3 go. Still has had several months where he paid his employees more than himself and has had months where he didn’t get a paycheck at all. When Obamcare kicks in it will be either give remaining employees full health care coverage or pay a fine of $2,000.00 per employee. When he is forced to close his doors I suppose it will be a case of another rich guy not wanting to pay his “fair share”.

      • DaveH

        Flashman says — “So DaveH….tell us … what state/nation has ever been successful … heck, let’s say for 20 years…using your economic theories (or that of Mises) ?”.
        This nation state for one, Flashman, before the Progressives started pushing their negatively productive Socialist policies. It takes time and a greater degree for Socialism to overcome the benefits of Free Markets (Capitalism), but we can see the results by looking at the Great Depression and our current Economic Malaise.
        Heck, Flashman, all we need do is look at the results of West Germany vs. East Germany for a dramatic example of what Socialism can do to a country. Or study the countries at the bottom of the Economic Freedom rankings to see what Socialism does to countries.
        Criminy Flashman, I’d think that even with the little bit of brain-power that you have, you could figure it out. But Sheesh, sometimes I am wrong.

      • Karolyn

        Kate – Did you not notice that this was posted on March 12? Nothing since?

      • Gordon

        LARRY. The liberals don’t get it. They’ll never get it. The cows could tape something by now.

      • Gordon

        LARRY. Everythiing here looks prosperous. Lots of activity, especially on the 3-4-5 of the month. Our tri-county chamber of commerce says that the unemployment rate is 30+% and 50% of the people draw some type of check on the 3rd. Money seems to be flowing profusely, Christmas shoppers have WM jammed (the only place in town). The mayor told me yesterday that 3 new government building projects are ready to start, several million bucks, and businesses are closing their doors even before Christmas season peaks. With a population of 8,000 there are over 500 empty houses, according to the CC. One mile stretch of road every business building is empty, period. Maybe 30. Things don’t look better after these 4 years.

    • DaveH

      Doc says — “Where is the evidence that increasing taxes on the top 1-2% will send the economy off the cliff?”.
      Here are two examples from our country’s history. The first is a Depression that quickly corrected, and the second is a Depression, where Government did things like Doc Sarvis and Obama would like to do, which lasted 14 years:
      http://mises.org/daily/3788

    • DaveH

      Doc says — “I seriously doubt that a slightly higher rate on folks earning over a quarter of a million dollars a year is going to break them or even stop them from hiring that next nanny or factory worker (if they even considered hiring someone who lives in the U.S.)”.
      Your “doubt” won’t keep peoples’ jobs, Doc.
      Business people invest their money for one reason (like any of us would do) to earn money on it. If their acceptable minimum return on that money is 5%, and taxes are raised on that money thus preventing them from achieving their minimum acceptable return, then they will spend it (consume it) instead of investing it in capital equipment or plants. That results in fewer jobs for those people who are dependent on somebody else to provide them a job, and it results in fewer thus more expensive goods and services for the people. It’s a double-whammy for the poor — fewer jobs and higher prices.
      I suggest, Doc, that you study the history of that “worker’s paradise” — Cuba — and learn what the Politics of Envy get you, instead of waiting to learn the hard way from our own country’s mistakes.

      • Jeff

        C.B.:

        Why do you feel obliged to always go to ridiculous extremes to make your “points”?Cuba? Really? Is that what the issue is? Talking about restoring the tax rates under Bill Clinton for the highest earners is, to you, tantamount to turning us into Cuba or North Korea? See, it’s that kind of idiocy that people find so odious about Conservative “thought.” Here’s an example of the kind of paranoia one finds on the right.

        http://thenewcivilrightsmovement.com/4-glenn-beck-and-rick-santorum-fascistic-un-disabilities-treaty-is-from-nazi-days/politics/2012/12/03/55246

      • http://PersonalLibertyDigest perfectlyaged

        I was raised in a small business and I understand how difficult it is some months to spread the money around….replacing aging equipment, payroll, taxes, supporting a family (in my family five children), etc. Now, Obamacare is a castrophictic expense and will laden the small business man down even more! Small businesses hire 80% of new hires and Obama is oblivious to this or just doesn’t care. Remember his phrase “I won?”
        Also, I am riled that Obama is using Air Force One and “campaiging” using my hard earned tax money! I don’t agree with him in the slightest and he can charter a plane and pay for the expense out of his own money. Then to add to this….he and his family are going to Hawaii for a three weeks vacation at a cost of $4M or more.
        Obama and Michelle have found an utopian lifestyle at the taxpayer’s expense. I just read that the American taxpayer spends $1.4B on the Obama family yearly.
        BTW, I have been a registered and voting democrat for almost sixty years…I did not vote for Obama either time. As far as I am concerned Obama is a homosexual Muslim Chicago thug and is illegible to be President!

      • Michael J.

        Perfectlyaged said,
        “Small businesses hire 80% of new hires and Obama is oblivious to this or just doesn’t care.”

        Wrong on both counts, his actions are not put forth out of incompetence or negligence, but a focused effort to destroy the economy. So evil is the man at the helm, that the Antichrist wishes he were Obama.

      • DaveH

        Jeff says — “Talking about restoring the tax rates under Bill Clinton for the highest earners is, to you, tantamount to turning us into Cuba or North Korea?”.
        Haven’t you heard, Jeff? It’s not the Taxes. It’s the Spending, Idiot. And the Government Spending has gone up steadily since the 1950s. They will keep spending until we do reach Cuba or North Korea status. It’s inherent in the Greed of Leaders.
        Eventually, Jeff, people will get wise to those of you feeding at the trough, and they will wake up to the fact that you are going to fight hard and say anything to keep your position at that trough.

      • http://tlgeer.wordpress.com tlgeer

        “And the Government Spending has gone up steadily since the 1950s.”

        So has the population, and we’ve added two States. Which means, of course, that Government Spending has gone up.

        Do you truly know this little about even basic Economics?

    • FreedomFighter

      Doc Sarvis,

      Raising taxes on any person or entity for the purpose of redistribution to those considered “to need the money more” is: THEFT

      I played a game with my grandchildren I called the socialism game:

      I will be the government
      You will be the rich hard working guy–oldest
      You two will be the needy poor- brother and sister

      I gave the oldest the job of cleaning cars an mowoing the lawn the other 2 played in the pool all day…

      at the end of the day I sat them all down at the table and said its payday and put 30 bucks on the table in ones in front of the oldest, he smiled and started talking about some vid game he wanted…

      II said wait a minute, remember this is the socialism game…

      I am the government and you must pay your fair share..

      I took 20 dollars back and told him it was taxes and he kept 10 dollars, then I gave 10 dollars each to the other 2 whom had spent the day at the pool.

      Then old them thats socialism. After about 5 minutes of screaming and rather nasty comments I said GAME OVER

      I scooped up all the money and said…we dont do socialism here and gave all the money to the oldest, the younger 2 pitched a fit…I told them the pool still needs cleaning…

      They the two youngest said “hey how can you take all our money back you just gave us and give it back to oldest?

      I said: Cause Im the Government…

      Laus Deo
      Semper Fi

      • Doc Sarvis

        The rich with the inside track in Congress make the rules that accellerate the REDISTRIBUTION of money to the top 1-2%. THAT is the theft!

    • Kay Cleveland

      Doc Sarvis: Who’s side are you on anyway? Under Obama…we are taxed to death…taking away all the itemized deductions on yearly taxes, increases in the tax table every year under Obama, removing deductions, there are no jobs, no HOPE of any jobs {all in China…who now basically owns the US}, he wants “dictatorship” to eliminate the debt ceiling, and the fact is…the rich pay their “fair share”. If every person in America pays 20%….the rich will pay 20% just like everybody else…which is more..because they make more money. It works just like child support: 21% of your salary…no matter what you make. Obama just wants to be a dictator..play hard ball..and if you don’t play like I want to play..and let me do what I want to do…I won’t talk to you anymore…Wah! Wah! Wah!…Impeach him before he even has the chance to lie taking the oath of office. He has violated his oath of office, abuse of power, violated the Constitution, violated the Amendments, lied and covered-up Fast & Furious and Benghazi, voter fraud, voter lawlessness, voter intimidation and voter bribery. And if you can’t see it you are due the Thanks for nothing along with all the Stupid, Radical, Liberal, Demon*crats who voted this Liar-in-Chief back in office.

      • Doc Sarvis

        President Obama got RE-elected by the American people who understood that his approach would increase taxes a bit on those who have benefitted the most from what our country has to offer while keeping rates low for the masses who have fewer resources. Even a clear majority of Republicans approve of that approach (from the exit polls).

      • George E

        Doc,

        If you’re counting on this tax rate increase keeping your rates low, I wouldn’t bet on it. There isn’t nearly enough money involved even if the government collects all of the money they’re expected (which is probably an optimistic estimate), to keep the rest of us from having to pay a lot more in taxes IF that’s all we’ve got to work with. Fortunately, it isn’t. If the economy gets rolling again this will do more to reduce the deficit than a tax rate increase on the rich. On the other hand, taxing the “rich” may cause the economy to stall out entirely, which could result in a much worse deficit problem, and even higher taxes in the future.

      • http://tlgeer.wordpress.com tlgeer

        “under Obama…we are taxed to death”

        lololol This is so far from the truth it’s almost insane. We have the lowest taxes for almost the last 100 years. In what way, exactly, does this mean that we are taxed to death??

    • http://ontheramparts.wordpress.com drtch

      Doc, I disagree about the game not “being fixed.” Clearly, many of the richest pay little or no taxes, and it has been documented that the Tax People focus particularly on the ‘Average Joe,” and not the Rockefellers and General Electric. The best way to go would be a route that was suggested at least as far back as the seventies: A straight, say 10%, for everyone, regardless of status, with no loopholes, whatever. This would simply the system tremendously, would mean that few “regular people” would find it worthwhile to play games, and we could tell the tax people to get lost (and get honest jobs). And studies have shown that we’d have plenty of revenue to meet any real needs. Even better, once we’ve cut our Defense-Intelligence-Prison Budget in half, which has been way overdue!!

  • independent thinker

    Excellent proposal Wayne. I have been thinking along those lines for months but could never quite get a handle on it. Of course it is doubtful Boehner has the smarts or balls to do that.

    • eric

      only worth it if we are talking about an ACTUAL spending cut, as in less than they got last year or the year before. NOT the political doublespeek of a cut in the expected increase as is so often used.

      • podunk

        We’re facing financial disaster because of boneheads and progressive republicans. They share equally in the $1.25 trillion per year debt increases over the past 4 years! They share equally in the pathetic economic demise of America over those same years! Bernanke and Geitner continue printing worthless bonds and money that will destroy our country, without restraint!

        The House has the power to control spending. They can issue specific restricted spending mandates with felony laws containing specific minimum severe penalties that will prohibit specific disbursements and end the plunder! It needs to begin with defunding the czars and their empires, followed by stripping all powers to regulate beyond the legislatures. We won’t need new taxes if congress prohibits and levies felony criminal charges for giving taxpayer money or benefits to aliens! Citizen needs must override foreign aid, the UN, and political pay-backs.

        So it will be, Mr. Boehner and fellow republican progressives, you haven’t seen anything, yet. You’re defiling our morals, heritage, and sovereign country, things the tea party tries to protect… democrat and republican alike. You (pl.) haven’t defended the tea party from progressives’ vile slander and deception. You’ve (pl.) failed to protect our country from international looters, who have stripped our productive infrastructure over the past 25 years. Rather than not vote, I’ll tirelessly support a democrat to unseat any republican who votes with you on the cliff, amnesty, or any other socialist world government crap you support. One more strike, and you’re out of commission – in the minority – where losers belong!

        Ps… No… they can’t pass laws without senate & president signatures… BUT THEY CAN STOP THE FLOW OF MONEY AND END THE PLUNDER!!!! They can stop Obama and Reed from spending anymore period… especially without an approved budget. They can get a court order to enforce it! Don’t approve anything without near minute detail restrictions – NOTHING discretional, down to the penny!!! GET SERIOUS!

      • Chester

        Podunk, perhaps you should move back where your name suggests you originated. As for making all these NEW felonies, who is going to pay for the prisons to incarcerate all the people you foresee being charged and convicted of spending more than the Republicans authorized? And it have to be a Republican controlled house, senate, and presidency to get something like that through.

      • Texas Ride

        Podunk, very good! Why won’t the republicants use the power they have to “stop the bleeding” of Americans’ wealth and defund all the waste.

        Republicants need to stop everything until there is a budgetpassed! What is the reason that we have not had a budget for the last four years….It is the Law..(or are we no longer interested in anything but omaumau law.)

        The House evidently belongs to the communist party (formerly the democrat party.) In fact, it is beginning to look like this is a one-party government! The republicants have either joined the communitst party or they are all morons (probably both.) I have not been for a third party, but it is beginning to look like the GOP no longer tolerates conservative ideals. Maybe it is time to join and support a real conservative party, that is made up of real Americans,

      • Jeff

        I hope you’re very happy in your new Party of 1. J.R. just died.

      • don

        bohner is the same as democats. they all want the same an its not to lower the depercit you want to know who stands for lowing an who aginist it ? look no further that who kicked who off his commities. that tell the whole story an its a disgrace to us. please don’t let this stand. call an call some more. the higher up in the rept. party no longer stand for what we want.

    • Nadzieja Batki

      What if O does want the US to go over the fiscal cliff?

      • Deerinwater

        Hmm? ~ he doesn’t Nadzoeja ~ I know that you don’t trust my opinion , in fact you have no trust at all, while ~ it is what it is.

        But every President , is thinking about how histories long view will look upon their tenure AS they deal with on going day to day issues as Presidents put into play “policy” that have long term ramifications that affects the whole world in various ways.

        Well? except for W anyway ~ as to-date, W has gone down in history as having done more for the liberation of the Arab people than any US President prior or since.

        While it is true that he did express the intent to “liberate” the Iraqi people, I don’t believe today’s events in the Arab world is actually what he had in mind.

        This is a cleaver link you might enjoy.

        http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/interactive/2011/mar/22/middle-east-protest-interactive-timeline

      • http://ontheramparts.wordpress.com drtch

        There is no “fiscal cliff,” except in the sense of our debt-based economic system being thoroughly corrupt and comprised of the IMF, World Bank, Bank of England and Federal Reserve System (which also dove-tails with the Globalists). Please read some books such as “Web of Debt,” “Creature of Jekyll Island,” and “Secrets of the Federal Reserve” and get back to us. What’s more, if I wanted to pare down the budget (though “servicing the debt” is virtually meaningless in our loony system), I would dismantle the “Fed,” impose a very modest 10% tax on EVERYONE, regardless of income level, and status as business, corporation or individual, with no loopholes, subsidies or exemptions, whatever…and cut the Truly Insane Military-Industrial-Intelligence budget in HALF…and bring all our soldiers back home. We could also give “walking papers” to most all of the federal tax people, along with a nice Xmas card, suggesting they get “real jobs.” You see, the Average Joe would happily pay his share, as it simply would not be worth the hassle of playing games when the amount is about a third of what it customarily has been. Please also reflect on the fact that recalling our troops would mean a significant saving in federal fossil fuel usage. All these wars are reflective of serious psychopathology. JUST SAY NO!!

    • Don

      To bad, the Republican leadership will never see Mr. Root’s video. Mr. Root makes total sense.

    • Peter Sagi

      Hey Wayne, you are overtaxed because you voluntarily incur liability for taxes. Yeah, that’s right, you are doing it to yourself. Someone has to give you the game or you’re phugged.

      The income tax is an excise tax, a tax on privilege, and only MEASURED by the income derived from use of the taxable privilege, so saith the US Supreme Court in the earliest of decisions upholding the Constitutionality of the income tax. Here is the analogy … suppose and your best buddy Bob were the only two folks around, out on the middle of a frozen lake way back when before all manner of silly rules and regs. You can build a shack on the ice for yourself, cut a hole, and catch and eat as many fish as you like AS A RIGHT, and Bob can do the same. But suppose Bob isn’t as handy as you in building shacks or cutting holes in the ice, and he asks if he can fish out of your fishing hole. You say yes, but, you want something for your efforts and say he may fish out of your fishing hole provided he gives you every 4th fish he catches. That would be a tax of sorts. Is it a tax on fish??? NO, because Bob could fish elsewhere and keep all his fish. The tax is on hte privilege of fishing out of your fishing hole and shack and only measured in terms of every 4th fish caught. Get it???? You should be asking yourself what you are doing to that would be considered fishing out of the federal fishing hole.

      For most folk, the answer is “employment” which is a specific legal term. You can be hired without being “employed.” If you are merely hired, you are in a two party contract between you and the person or company that hired you. Use an SSN on the job via form W-4 and now you are “employed.” The slave enumeration bureau at ssa dot gov will admit in writing if asked that ssn use is voluntary and not required to live OR WORK in the US. The IRS admits on its website that form W-4 is voluntary. Use an SSN on the j ob and you have invited the govt. in as a third party. It is as if you are going thru them like a temp agency. This allows them to demand on your behalf minimum wage, maternity leave, OSHA regs, overtime regs, and pretty soon Obamacare. You have converted hire into the taxable privilege of “employment” and thereby incurring liability for FICA, payroll tax, Medicare tax, federal income tax, state income tax, local income tax, and Obamacare.

      If you are like most businessmen, you probably have your incorporated business entity “employ” you, but that is not necessary, not even to have the business expense out the cost of your hire on its tax return. As a non taxpayer, i.e., no SSN, the corporate entity can expense out the cost of your hire under the catagory of OTHER on its corporate return.

      Then there is the matter of taxes on the business entity itself. The business entity will need a taxpayer ID number as a matter of practicality since no bank will do business without one, even though that is their corporate policy and not any law. What works is an LLC held by an unincorporated business trust organization. It really is that simple.

      Never mind tax rates, never mind deductions, never mind all the subtle nuances in the tax codes, etc. The bottom line is knowing how liability is incurred for the income tax in the first place and simply avoiding that.

      Pete

      • Gordon

        Well PETE, that sounds great. Only trouble is that when the irs decides to audit you for the last 15 years on the basis of tax fraud (no time limit, no proof of wrongdoing) and declares all your tax forms for 15 years as wrong and the burden of proof then becomes YOURS.. You can’t use your infor to prove you are right, they won’t accept that, and how do you prove that they are wrong? Tens of thousands of dollars and several years later you are still fighting an ongoing monthly battle to prove yourself. As your tax lawyers, tax accountants, etc, die off and new ones take over and try to get up to speed….. I’ll hook you up with my buddy…..Try it, it is lots of fun.

      • Gordon

        Makes me want to believe that the best thing to do is mundane work an hourly wage with a W4 and let them take what they want every week. At least a problem won’t be your fault.

      • GALT

        26 C.F.R. § 31.3402(p)-1 Voluntary withholding agreements.
        Title 26 – Internal Revenue

        Title 26: Internal Revenue
        PART 31—EMPLOYMENT TAXES AND COLLECTION OF INCOME TAX AT SOURCE
        Subpart E—Collection of Income Tax at Source

        § 31.3402(p)-1 Voluntary withholding agreements.

        (a) In general. An employee and his employer may enter into an agreement under section 3402(b) to provide for the withholding of income tax upon payments of amounts described in paragraph (b)(1) of §31.3401(a)–3, made after December 31, 1970. An agreement may be entered into under this section only with respect to amounts which are includible in the gross income of the employee under section 61, and must be applicable to all such amounts paid by the employer to the employee. The amount to be withheld pursuant to an agreement under section 3402(p) shall be determined under the rules contained in section 3402 and the regulations thereunder. See §31.3405(c)–1, Q&A–3 concerning agreements to have more than 20-percent Federal income tax withheld from eligible rollover distributions within the meaning of section 402.

        (b) Form and duration of agreement. (1)(i) Except as provided in subdivision (ii) of this subparagraph, an employee who desires to enter into an agreement under section 3402(p) shall furnish his employer with Form W–4 (withholding exemption certificate) executed in accordance with the provisions of section 3402(f) and the regulations thereunder. The furnishing of such Form W–4 shall constitute a request for withholding.
        (ii) In the case of an employee who desires to enter into an agreement under section 3402(p) with his employer, if the employee performs services (in addition to those to be the subject of the agreement) the remuneration for which is subject to mandatory income tax withholding by such employer, or if the employee wishes to specify that the agreement terminate on a specific date, the employee shall furnish the employer with a request for withholding which shall be signed by the employee, and shall contain—

        (a) The name, address, and social security number of the employee making the request,
        (b) The name and address of the employer,
        (c) A statement that the employee desires withholding of Federal income tax, and applicable, of qualified State individual income tax (see paragraph (d)(3)(i) of §301.6361–1 of this chapter (Regulations on Procedures and Administration)), and
        (d) If the employee desires that the agreement terminate on a specific date, the date of termination of the agreement.

        If accepted by the employer as provided in subdivision (iii) of this subparagraph, the request shall be attached to, and constitute part of, the employee’s Form W–4. An employee who furnishes his employer a request for withholding under this subdivision shall also furnish such employer with Form W–4 if such employee does not already have a Form W–4 in effect with such employer.

        (iii) No request for withholding under section 3402(p) shall be effective as an agreement between an employer and an employee until the employer accepts the request by commencing to withhold from the amounts with respect to which the request was made.
        (2) An agreement under section 3402 (p) shall be effective for such period as the employer and employee mutually agree upon. However, either the employer or the employee may terminate the agreement prior to the end of such period by furnishing a signed written notice to the other. Unless the employer and employee agree to an earlier termination date, the notice shall be effective with respect to the first payment of an amount in respect of which the agreement is in effect which is made on or after the first “status determination date” (January 1, May 1, July 1, and October 1 of each year) that occurs at least 30 days after the date on which the notice is furnished. If the employee executes a new Form W–4, the request upon which an agreement under section 3402 (p) is based shall be attached to, and constitute a part of, such new Form W–4.

      • GALT

        Gordon, to answer your question……..if you are the “employee”, without a w-4 in place,
        you have no income subject to tax, , and as you have no “income”, you are not required to…..and do not “file a return”……..of any kind.

        You would no longer be included in any “payroll” information, that your employer would
        provide for “payroll tax purposes”…..because you are no longer paying those taxes.

        Nor would you show up on your employers return except as a line item expense….lumped
        in with everything else included in that line item.

        The IRS therefor has no information about you and “no jurisdiction” to pursue you,
        since you have not “volunteered to be subject”……as a person “liable” for such a tax.

        and no part of title 26 would identify you as being a “person liable for such a tax”.

      • Gordon

        Unfortunately this is not an ideal world. I am well acquainted with a man going through this situation, and regardless of these pretty words printed herein, HE has his hands full with filed leans, etc. Howl as he and his representatives are, the feds have him by the short hairs and he is in a serious situation> So even though anyone in this column or other might site text etc, what actually happens is that they do what they want without restraint. Face it. That is the way the system actually works here in the good old USA.

      • DrTCH

        On the subject of Taxation, well said, Peter!! Incidentally, the only thing which is subject (maybe) to the state and federal “income taxes” is “income.” Are any of you familiar with the substantial case-law which defines income as “corporate profit” (profit, not “gross receipts”)?

        Now on the subject of “Entitlements.” I suggest we end ALL corporate entitlements, subsidies and tax loopholes IMMEDIATELY…as well as halving the insane Military-Industrial-Intelligence budget. We would be ending the psychopathological foreign wars, and OVERNIGHT would have plenty to help bail-out our schools, people about to lose ther jobs and homes…and maybe even enough to fund critical energy research to get us of the damn fossil fuels and gasoline combustion engines.

      • http://ontheramparts.wordpress.com drtch

        Please take a moment and re-read the beginning of a comment by GALT:

        § 31.3402(p)-1 Voluntary withholding agreements.
        (a) In general. An employee and his employer may enter into an agreement under section 3402(b) to provide for the withholding of income tax upon payments of amounts described in paragraph (b)(1) of §31.3401(a)–3, made after December 31, 1970. An…

        Did you get that? VOLUNTARY WITHHOLDING AGREEMENTS.

        And, what’s more, the IRS defines the Income Tax as a system of “Voluntary Assessment.” Yet, the agency manages this system like the German S.S. and considers all of its regulations and determinations as Mandatory. How does it feel to be taken hostage?

      • GALT

        Gordon, there are tons of “horror stories” about people making attempts to “do stuff”
        based in things they THINK they understand……..

        The IRS makes a point of POINTING this out, every year, at the appropriate time….
        but regardless of the STORY and the HORROR………the key component is that
        unless “jurisdiction” exists……..no government has any “legal power” over you….so
        regardless of what you may believe, as it concerns your friend…….FACTS are
        required to determine by what means the IRS established “jurisdiction”.

        And this applies to “any” authority in government.

        Understanding what “jurisdiction” is or how it is obtained can be a bit tricky
        to understand so and because we are operating in “admiralty and maritime”, which
        requires a “reservation of rights” before the “fact”, I am going to describe the most
        bizarre case where “jurisdiction” can be obtained when it does not exist.

        It is a hot sunday afternoon, so you decide to eat an ice cream cone in public, and are cited by a law enforcement officer, probably from homeland secuirty, for “eating
        an ice cream cone in public” and are required to appear in court.

        When you do, you are asked to plead to the charge…….it does not matter which
        plea you enter…….if you actually offer a “plea”, you have just granted the “court”
        jurisdiction to “judge” your actions. ( no other element is necessary )

        As for you “friend”…….he had to have done something that gave or implied
        that the IRS had “jurisdiction”…….because the only proper legal remedy that
        exists…..when authority does not have “jurisdiction”….is to challenge the
        FACT that jurisdiction exists……..there is no other argument that can be
        made or is required to be made.

        For most people this is a very difficult “concept” to grasp…..and “common sense”
        has no value………only KNOWLEDGE will serve…….and from what I can tell,
        FEAR can be a great inducement, to encourage “ignorance” and the “attempt”
        to overcome it. ( but that could just be me…….since that is the usual product of
        discussions of this kind )

    • http://www.facebook.com/benjamin.fox.98892 Benjamin Fox

      Karl Marx said there are 10 steps to communism, one is tax the people into slavery, the elite idiots in the Senate and Congress spend millions to get into power, why? Are they representatives or controllers? Write laws for us but, not for them? It’s time to start over and elect those without a agenda, those who represent us and don’t enslave us. Time to get a American President, not one from Kenya, term limits, no retirement when done, no big staffs to write the laws, maybe 1 or 2 and no more. Unions that are socialist by nature, the robbers of jobs and getting ahead, I know, I worked for many and they didn’t help me because I always gave a days work for a days pay, they and their leaders want to control the industry and not work for it, Commie sobs and nothing more. Time to kick the UN out of the U.S. and stop paying tax payer money to those who hate us. Aid? Yes, medical and food and nothing more. Tell those who try to come over our borders, you will die, just like Mexico does on it’s southern borders. Time to get back to America and forget the Euro’s who are already slaves where the government decides who lives and die’s. Stop killing babies who are those who help a country become greater, time to be FREE and stop being slaves to those who say they serve when they really enslave.

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