Bill…if one were to direct such question to me, i’d respond…”depends”.

If the adjusted gross income of the taxpayer is below a threshold, I’d say preferential tax rates should apply. What that would indicate to me is the capital gains is not the main or sole source of income. In your scenario, resume it is a couple with other employment, and the transaction you described was investment and savings. OK..preferential treatment. However, if the transaction you described was part of the overall income..i.e. was the ‘job” … then because it was part of daily income, it should be taxed as direct income.

If total adjusted gross is above $250,000 … then it should have no preferential treatment. At that level of income, the money can be invested in other areas….property, REITs, partnerships, loans, or stock portfolios. The tax rates should be the same for all those…and the taxpayer can then select what investment in our Nation they would make. face it…the money isn’t going away, it will be invested. It’s the type of investment which would be the question. And with the rates being the same…certain targeted areas which are viewed as risky but needed (i.e. Alternative energy, R&D, etc) would stand to gain more by private investment choices because of a lower tax rate…and ease the burden on government to spend taxpayer funds on promoting…

Short term cap. gains are taxed as regular income. Long term cap. gains are taxed at 0% for people in the 10 and 15 % brackets, and 15% for all others. Homes that are lived in by the owner and sold by the owner get a 250,000 exclusion for a single person and 500,000 exclusion for a married couple.
I would give everyone a cap gains tax of 0 for the first 25k of gains. I would then tax at 15% up until 50k. Of course these amounts could be discussed. After that tax cap gains as ordinary income. An inflation factor could be added to reduce taxes on long term holdings. People who make millions in stock and bond transactions like Romney and many others are currently getting undeserved preferred treatment.

Romney, your great capitalist, never started a company or had any interest in creating jobs or making companies more viable. His one and only interest was in driving weakened companies out of business by NOT investing in automation and modern manufacturing techniques. In the process of destroying companies, he filled his pockets with as much cash as he could get his hands on. This is typical of corporate raiders. I’ve seen it happen many times in my own career, sometimes to my advantage and sometimes not. Let me state, as an aside, that modern manufacturing methods do not necessarily create higher paying jobs. As an automation engineer I worked on many projects that eliminated the need for skilled personnel.
At least the 80k couple would buy needed items and create demand. Demand is the one and only thing that will increase supply.

LOL..OK, so what specifically of my post do you disagree with? Or just spouting off because you can …

let me guess…like you do with your Mises links..you didn’t read it.

Is Flashman an administration shill?
Why would a lay person try so hard to personally attack me?
Why would a lay person assume multiple personalities, or share a computer with multiple other personalities who tout the same ideas?
Why would a lay person work so hard to deceive people?
Here is an example from yesterday of Flashman’s typical lack of credibility:
http://personalliberty.com/2012/11/28/the-repudiation-of-mitt-romney/#comment-770041

This is what Flashman likely is:
http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread826545/pg1&addstar=1&on=13829871#pid13829871

The radical left is constantly yammering about how everyone must pay their “fair share.” Well, I agree! The laws are to be enforced “equally,” so lets do it. Make companies like GE pay taxes (they don’t now.) Everyone even Geithner-the-tax-cheat would be able to figure out how much taxes he owed if it was a flat 10% across the board.
Lets get taxes from the 50% that pay nothing and have no skin-in-the-game. I don’t care if they pay only $100 a year, everyone must pay tax or no one pays tax! That is the only “Fair” way. Everyone pays or no one pays!

Trickle down….euphemism for being urinated on….

I’ll take trickle down any day, as opposed to Obama’s trickle up poverty, and the mindset that you can just get it for free, sign up here, all it costs you is your vote!

Rob,
Are you referring to Clintons policies when he caved to the gop dominated congress on LOWERED capital gans taxes by 40%?

But Trickle Up Poverty, as promoted by well-meaning but ignorant Progressive Followers, has succeeded. Progressives have no reservations about Killing the Golden Goose.

Conservatives have no problem fattening the golden gooses at the top whether they produce anything or not! Its all come down to making money off of other peoples money instead of creating jobs for those other people. The bigger dams the upper Elites build the harder the economy crashes when they do break!

Eddie47d You think the Government Bureaucracy that writes and implements ALL Economic policies is going to make you Rich when they ALL are calling for Population Controls across the broad Including Economics ?? FOOL while Congress and this president been locked in Grid Lock Who do you think has Been writing and implemented the Policies that have the stagnate economic at 1.5 % GDP scaring the be-Jesus out of the Risk takers YOU depicts as the Evil Money takers ???

Those “risk takers” have been around for many decades. Now they are pigs at the trough and demand more for accomplishing less.They don’t want to work for that million they want it handed to them with the next big ponzi scheme. They keep betting the farm and the farm finally went into bankruptcy.

As usual, eddie47d nails it pretty well while dAvEH again displays his willful ignorance by talking about “trickle UP poverty”. Lord love a duck!

DavEh obviously doesn’t even read the comments on this site or he would have noticed the many that give incontrovertible DATA that contradicts his delusions. Maybe I expect too much of him. I guess when you live in a state of terminal delusion, you wouldn’t even recognize that what trickles UP is wealth.

Bill you obviously aren’t as smart as you think you are. So far Mr. Smith sound for more intelligent then you.

Could you give us an example, Alicia?

Oh yes Bill like your “lower tax rates create wealth” . Sometimes it does and many times it doesn’t. Lower tax rates didn’t encourage job growth in 2007 and the economic collaspe happened anyway. That puts us back to greed and selfishness at the top.

DaveH says:
November 29, 2012 at 12:02 pm

ALICA JUST GAVE HER OPINION, JUST HOW DO YOU GIVE AN EXAMPLE OF AN OPINION, SOMETIMES DAVY YOUR SO RIDICULOUS IDIOTIC

More useless adolescent ad hominem attacks from a Liberal Progressive.
Do you guys ever have anything informative to say, Sleepee?

Uh, I see an awful lot of them there ad hominem critters running loose here. Aren’t they a threat to the world and aren’t we supposed to be killing them off? (Even though that might make some folks mute?)

Bill is right about Hong Kong. I’ve been there several times, and if you want to see free enterprise in action, just go there. Fabulous place.

Spending is the problem!!! Entitlements are by far the biggest expenditures. Not a single entitlement will cut by the socialists; it is suicide for them to select voting blocks for cuts. The solution is to tax entitlement benefits across-the-board, thereby eliminating the need to single out specific cuts. After all, Obama has been calling for a fair share and Biden thinks it would be patriotic. This will enable those receiving benefits to be patriotic citizens by helping their country in a time of need. They will accept anything, if it is packaged right!!!!

Bill,

Despite the fact that we KNOW what is being done in Hong Kong by their government, abd how successful it is, we do not follow their example because we have the FEDERAL RESERVE dictating what happens in this country, not the President,and certainly not Congress

Brain (Right) says — “There are many ways we can ‘tweak” the present tax structure to improve it. Saying “flat tax” is simplistic and would really benefit the 1% at the expense of the greater good”.
Isn’t it the Liberal Progressives who whine all the time about the “loopholes” in our present tax system?
What is “simplistic” is saying that the real beneficiaries of a Flat Tax would be the 1%.
Every tax dollar that is diverted from the Private Sector to the Public Sector is a dollar that would have been spent more productively and more efficiently in the Private Sector. The Private sector creates Wealth, while the Government consumes Wealth with those dollars. Wealth being the actual goods and services which can be bought with the dollar (the medium of exchange). When the Government consumes our wealth, we all lose in the long run except those of us in the Real One Percent who are taking advantage of the rest of the citizens.
The Real One Percenters:
http://mises.org/daily/5776/The-State-is-the-1-Percent

Interesting……so DavidH……………….what does Warren Buffet understand about the
concept of “fair” that you do not?

Maybe you and/or Bob could get an EXCLUSIVE interview with him……………be FUN
to watch either one of you………………probing…………….for the answer to that question.

Be even more fun to see Bob agreeing to do it at all…………….let alone having YOU
as his side kick?

Bob?????

GALT is right on the money with his assessment of you, Dave—-willfully ignorant says it all.

DaveH,

I rarely agree with what you post and this is another such occasion.

Can you tell me why the Corporations and Big Business have had for some time, some $1.7 trillion stashed away in American and foreign banks rather than utilising it for investment or expansion in business in this country? Could it be because they (the bosses/owners) are more interested in their own welfare rather than the country’s?

Perhaps you can answer my question – what job is worth $10 million salary?

The one no one in his right mind would ever think about hiring DavidH to do?

I mean there are highly paid “idiots”…………..but the qualification is, at a minimum,
the ability to fool most of the people at least SOME of the time………which means
you have to have some mental agility…………………

10 million? That would buy you a hundred votes…..anywhere in government………..
DavidH would cost you that many and them some………………..

He’s kinda like a “judo click buy”………for Bob……just think IF you thought this
guy was for REAL? That makes the “doom and gloom” stuff way MORE effective…
provided you actually GET the INTENT of PLD.??????????????????

Maybe when Texas secedes you can move there. Oops you already live there!

So why do you care where someone lives? Should the posters be wary of posting because you have decided to make veiled threats of snooping?

Everyone makes me happy, some her they walk in and some when they leave.

Perhaps you should lower taxes for foriegners and illiminate Estate taxes in some of your states and i can assure you will have a movement of retirees moving into those states creating a boom in activity.

This very thing happended in Queensland in Australia many years ago when they got rid of the death taxes in that State when all other states have a very punitive rate of death duties. The result was expected and many wealthy people purchased apartments and moved from other states to live their permanently which was helped with the warmer weather too of course. It created a building boom in Queensland and all types of businesses grew faster than in any other state…so much so that after a few years all the other States had to follow and get rid of the Death taxes voluntarily and without any debate of opposition…lol

All you need are some smart politicians who will realise that less will result in more for their state.

Historical data suggests that the USA had an increasing standard of living that lasted from the early 1830′s up to the mid 1970′s. After then, it went downhill very fast. Read or listen to Professor Richard Wollf’s lectures on the resons for this. They suggest that an over abundence of workers, computerisation and robotics reduced costs but did not decrease profits, which management paid to themselves, by and large, so that we ended up with management wages increasing to 400-500 times a line workers level. This was followed by further reduction in costs by sending jobs to low wage areas, attempted destruction of union operations to protect workers rights and you end up where we are today.

As for myself,I would rather pay tax at 35% on ten million than 35% on my current wage of $22K, a barely liveable wage here in North Florida. I do feel that I take home more of my salary now, today, than I did five years ago.

Some time ago I asked on here if anyone could tell me what type of job actually deserves a salary of $10 million and, to date, no one has supplied an answer!

Hostess closed because the Union contract was up for renewal. The Union demands at the renewal negotiations were not able to be met by Hostess. They warned the workers that if they insisted on those demands, they would have no choice but to close up shop. The Union wouldn’t budge and threatened to strike. So Hostess closed its doors.

You are wrong if you think Wall Street has anything to do with that mess. Go do your homework.

Rob,
Please explain how Wall Street killed Hostess

Hostess (and Ding Dongs and Twinkies) would have survived except the unions demanded too much, and just as important management didn’t care as they could walk without economic consequences to them personally. Management had nothing to lose, there were no consequences to them. As such, management was going to break the union, spank the serfs as they viewed the workforce, and especially to send a message to the rest of the unions in the conglomerate. The union misread that, asked for concessions to trade for what they were being asked to concede…and the whole thing blew up.

A. Frazier, Robert Smith wants the fault to be Wall Street’s so therefore it must be.

Make up your mind, Robert. They’re bad guys if they run a business (according to Liberal Progressives), and they’re bad guys if they stop running a business. I guess if they have money that you Greedy Liberal Progressives want to share, they are bad guys no matter what they do.

Yeah Yeah, Dave H ! He won’t tell you that the top Hostess management was asking for $5 million in salary increases and $3 million for those under them. The workers weren’t asking unreasonable increases for the Hostess company had already settled with one group of workers and stalled on the second group but the arrogance of those management employees is what was killing the company. (The management did relent on their own million dollar demands but who is really the greedy ones)?

I know being a Unionist, you don’t recognize other peoples’ property, but it’s their money, Eddie.
They can pay their people whatever they think they’re worth, and that is NONE of your business, Eddie. Does anybody tell you how to spend your money?

You are getting slick at denying anything and everything Dave H. Soon you’ll be receiving the Pinocchio award.

There is actually quite a lot on the internet about this. You may start with this:
http://futiledemocracy.wordpress.com/2012/10/05/the-myth-of-the-job-creators/

Surely you kid, Doc?
From the article:

“The right winged rhetoric is as poignant on every line of text as it has ever been”.
No bias there.

“Most one nation conservatives believed the rich had a moral duty to protect the poor”.
Moral duty to protect the poor? Where does he get that? I’ve seen no moral code anywhere in my life that said anybody had a duty to protect anybody else unless they freely contract to do so. As I said in an earlier comment, the Cubans make less than 1/6th of what the average US worker does, yet I don’t see you Liberal Progressives offering to remedy that. It doesn’t apply to you, does it, only to those whose money you want to share?

“The leaflet posted through the door makes clear several times that Romney is committed to free market fundamentalism. His is simply an extension of new right thinking. He isn’t new, he isn’t presenting a credible plan for growth. He is rehashing the same tired old Friedman-ite economic philosophy that has dominated Western thought for the past thirty years, and has failed miserably every time”.
Rehashing the same tired old Friedman-ite that has dominated Western thought for 30 years, and has failed every time? Surely he kids? Our Government has grown from spending 37% of our GDP in 1980 to 41% of our GDP in 2011. The Federal Register has grown from 58,000 pages in 1982 to over 82,000 pages in 2012. And we’ve gone from being ranked the #3 most Economically Free country in the world in the 2002 Annual Report of Fraser Institute’s rankings to being the #18 most Economically Free country in their 2012 Annual Report.
So much for Free Markets. It’s funny how the Socialists like to say we’ve never had Free Markets (when it suits their purposes) but then claim periods of heavy Government intervention in the economy to be Free Markets.
And Romney is anything BUT a Free Market Advocate. Hell, he can’t even butt out of our personal Health Care decisions.

“Demand creates jobs. Not tax cuts for the wealthy”.
If that were true (it isn’t), there would be no poor countries, because any rum dum dictator can print new money and “create jobs”. It doesn’t work because no matter how much demand there is, first there has to be efficiently created product so that there are more and cheaper goods available for the consumers to purchase. For example, I demand a Ferrari Aurea, but do you think that matters? First one would have to be manufactured cheaply enough for me to buy it. And that isn’t going to happen unless some “Greedy” auto manufacturer invests his money in plants and equipment to allow him to build and sell me one at the price I’m willing to (or can) pay.
Demand-side Dogma:
http://mises.org/daily/1142

Bill, in my opinion there indeed needs to be a total forensic re-examination of where all the budget money is going now and to cut out silly useless programs so that enough money could be saved to pay for Obamacare/Medicare/FoodStamps which is what most of your voters voted for….. thats what the voting customer wanted and the customer is always right and the main reason the Republicans lost.

Republicans should put aside their stupid political egos and I know you have the skills to do a proper examination of all the pork barrelling wasted money is going towards and to offer to redirect those cuts/savings into what the voters really wanted. In the interim, you should agree to the tax increases untill you find the real savings……but not from the new programs of Obamacare/Medicare etc ……

When and if you can do that is when you should ask for the tax cuts to be re-introduced. ….. it will demonstrate you are genuine in your concern for the medical welfare of your citizens and not just for the Republican voter and also give you a better chance at winning with the next Presidential candidate….because the next election campaign has already started..

Bill ask; ” Do you think we should raise taxes, increase the debt limit and continue spending like we are currently doing?”

I say;

Bill, if the wealthy insist on hiding their wealth off shore or by all the other meaning they find at their disposal, refuse to reinvest it into “VENTURE ” capitalistic endeavors that might serve all American while they only invest in “SURE THINGS” where the “FIX” is in and huge profit margins assured to the very select few.by virtue of “Crony Capitalism” , “insider Trading” , “Influence Peddling” , “Bought Politicians” , “Bought Justices” , etc, ~ you bet cha ! Raise their Taxes!

Their hording, greed and sense of entitlement has bought this decision upon themselves. ~ If they wish to live somewhere else that is more tax lenient and sympathetic to their “plight” , permit them to lose US citizenship privileges and move to a third world country. I understand Nigeria is nice this time of year.

It “IS” class warfare “IF” it is as Mitt Romney claims that ~ $250,000 annual earning is MIDDLE CLASS. “A rose by any other name would smell just as sweet” This fact is one of the two elephants in the room that we attempt to be ignored today. The other being as Ron Paul has made so clear, that a self determined nation need to have control of it’s creation of currency.

The GOP is attempting to tell all Americans today that voters that only make $50,000 dollars per. year, ~ vote does not count and much as someone making 250,000.00 or more, while “WE” know this is just not true and it was never the intentions of the founding Father’s to be so.

In regard to your other question(s) ~ increase debit ceiling?, ~ clearly we can not default, if another way can be found, it’s open for discussion. But as even a small business man such as I, I can’t not write a “BAD CHECK” to people that I do business with, if I had to sell off or borrow or move asserts around, getting outside my comfort zone, ~so be it ~ The nations business is no different. To do otherwise, you lose creditably, trust and faith, three major factors that is required to stay in business and it’s a rapid downward spiral from there without them.

Regarding spending, ~ this topic is cloudy, for several reasons, ~ Time lags, time over money, we spend it and then the postman delivers bad news for years afterward. Our nation has over spent and misspent prior to the current administration. But spending in and of itself is not bad, ~ I cannot make money without spending, I must spend! There comes times when I see fit to spend money to save money. We call it investing. We attempt to invest in matters and products that offer acceptable returns for our investment.

Today I am setting on investments that will require several years to see returns. Sometimes these “investments” are drawn from my hand, not an investment I’d like to make but I do so with hopes of living another day and not wake up finding myself compromising my present position. I want to ride and not be ridden. If you plan to dance to your song, play the fiddler or you dance to someones else’s music.

So what has a 5 to 1 investment over and above all other world nations in military matters afforded us? What and where are our returns today? I tend to agree with Ron Paul on such matters and harbor much “buyers remorse” with what we elected to invest in from 2001 to 2008 while today the postman keeps delivering bad news.

After this big ticket item, what is left? Social programs? Programs that Americans have invested in all their working years, with all it’s failing, successes, rabbit trails, strawman and red herring. No doubt about it “Government Cleans up” ~ if you die, ~ government will not allow you to just lay then and rot and draw flies. ~ Government will bury you, government will take the responsibility of cleaning up and that included your estate if you are negligent.

I do not ever expect or ask that government, the private sector or the individual to do something for nothing. ~ If you want something done, make it worth someones efforts. But today is seems that many of the top 2 % demand outrageous returns for their efforts. paying them well is no longer enough , they want us to beg and be treated as Royalty. I say, “Fuok’em and feed ‘em fish”!

But regarding all spending matters , we must drive the conditions of the road, ~ whatever it takes, to keep the shiny side up and stay on the road and not in the ditch like we found ourselves in OCT, 2008.

Deer says — “Their hording, greed and sense of entitlement has bought this decision upon themselves”.
Hoarding? Don’t know about that, Deer, but let’s say they were. What is wrong with Hoarding?
Greed?
“I have never understood why it is “greed” to want to keep the money you have earned but not greed to want to take somebody else’s money.”
― Thomas Sowell
Sense of Entitlement? You lost me on that one, Deer. Perhaps you could make that a little more explicit?

Dave’s light bulb hasn’t come on again because he refuses to admit the the “new” greedy are not the same as your grandfathers greedy but more like your great grandfathers greedy. Were workers were virtual slaves to the Robber Barron’s and we have come to the point where we are going back to those days.

David says; ““I have never understood why it is “greed” to want to keep the money you have earned but not greed to want to take somebody else’s money.”
― Thomas Sowell

Nice quote David. ~ It addresses both sides of the issue.

Now if we might look at budget matters from both sides , from the revenue and spending side, then we might actually solve this problem.

That since 1975 the lobbyist in American commerce has grown in number and in influence to help government forge our laws on behave of the highest bidder has little to do with productive work but more with captured sympathy and the capturing of funds David H.

That one might have amassed such funds some 35 years later in this lopsided game contingent on the notion that they were somehow “earned” is a bit of a stretch.

That Prince William Sound was devastated by the EXXON Valdes while the victims awarded restitution by the court system of these United States, while so too was this restitution held up and not awarded by this same court system is no coincidences.

Those that have the gold, ~ make the rule, making it the the golden rule. ~ and this is where Corporate American commerce and it’s lobbyist have ruled supreme for 35 years.

For Christ Sakes David H. , these unfunded Bush wars were over future American crude oil supplies predicated on strawman and red heron. This protracted 7 trillion dollars expenditure was spent by the American people so Big Oil might “sell us” future oil!

How could such a thing happen, ~ without the special interest lobbyist spreading the wealth around on Capital Hill and helping to create a climate to where it was even possible.

To assume ones current wealth status is “earned” , Jesse James might run for President and be offered keys to the Kingdom.

And that, Deer, is why I’ve called you obtuse in the past. You didn’t address anything in my comment. Rather you went off on some wild tangents, some of which I think I’ve said myself, but I can’t be sure because your comment was not very comprehensible.
Alinsky tactic #2 — Go off on tangents.
http://personalliberty.com/2012/08/07/disinformation-how-it-works/

Hmm??? w’ell ~ , your question David H.;

“Hoarding? Don’t know about that, Deer, but let’s say they were. What is wrong with Hoarding?
Greed?”

Other than the fact, if everyone were a “greedy self-serving hoarder” the world would not be worth spit, ~ or that it goes against Christian principles and the teaching of Christ, ~ nothing I suppose David.

And why I choose to ignored your question, finding it unworthy a response and highlight your obtuse question, not wishing to annoy, offend or pass moral judgement if you wish to defend the practice of self absorbed unbridled hoarding and greed.

Honesty,fiat money is printed for negotiable tender to be used to serve as payment in debit both public and private. Hoarding creates issues, this has to be addressed when hoarding is carried to extremes. ~ Hoard Gold David. You like Gold, if you can hoard enough that it becomes a problem , more power to you.

Money is to spend , threaten to spend , or leverage. It not to take a bath in or just look at.

Luke 12:34

For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.

James 5:1-3

Come now, you rich, weep and howl for the miseries that are coming upon you. Your riches have rotted and your garments are moth-eaten. Your gold and silver have corroded, and their corrosion will be evidence against you and will eat your flesh like fire. You have laid up treasure in the last days.

Matthew 6:24

“No one can serve two masters, for either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve God and money.

Luke 12:16-21

And he told them a parable, saying, “The land of a rich man produced plentifully, and he thought to himself, ‘What shall I do, for I have nowhere to store my crops?’ And he said, ‘I will do this: I will tear down my barns and build larger ones, and there I will store all my grain and my goods. And I will say to my soul, Soul, you have ample goods laid up for many years; relax, eat, drink, be merry.’ But God said to him, ‘Fool! This night your soul is required of you, and the things you have prepared, whose will they be?’ …

Matthew 6:31-33

Therefore do not be anxious, saying, ‘What shall we eat?’ or ‘What shall we drink?’ or ‘What shall we wear?’ For the Gentiles seek after all these things, and your heavenly Father knows that you need them all. But seek first the kingdom of God and his righteousness, and all these things will be added to you.

Proverbs 13:4

The soul of the sluggard craves and gets nothing, while the soul of the diligent is richly supplied.

I think there are good in both but the corrupt rule and call the shots

Good one, Bill.

To the contrary, Bill, Reagan stuck to his claimed Principles all of a year before he succumbed to the pressure of members of his own party in Congress.

The Communists Marxists are trying to make this economic Failure Reagan’s Fault but its Clintons Free Trade agreement that ended the GATT agreement and Ushered in the WTO that is when we started this Snowball down hill to Hell !!!!!

Here we go again! Republicans lead by Gingrich are the ones who fully endorsed those “free trade” agreements. The Democrats were duped and accepted it although kicking and screaming all the way. Maybe Conservatives are right about there being no barriers to free trade and they could be proven right. The Democrats are now supporting a few of their own such as CAFTA and the Korean Pact. We can’t hold back world wide trade so maybe trying to get the best deal is the best we can hope for.

Who said anything about Free Trade, Eddie?
How long have you been here? You still don’t understand the difference between Real Free Trade and the Government administered Jokes of NAFTA, and other so-called “Free Trade” agreements?
Read this please, Eddie, and get a clue so I don’t have to suffer further nonsensical comments from you about “Free Trade”:
http://archive.mises.org/7889/free-trade-versus-free-trade-agreements/

Here’s more for your reading displeasure, Eddie. Yeah I know, it takes so much effort to do a little reading and learning:
http://www.mises.org/freemarket_detail.aspx?control=163

eddie47d says:
November 29, 2012 at 11:51 am
Here we go again! Republicans lead by Gingrich are the ones who fully endorsed those “free trade” agreements. The Democrats were duped and accepted it although kicking and screaming all the way.

Duped? I thought Bill Clinton was a political genius, remember he was the president that signed NAFTA. Al Gore defended it in a debate with Ross Perot. Duped? Even Joe Biden, along with 26 other Democratic senators, voted for it. Duped indeed.

There we go again MOMO. Sure they finally accepted it after it was all tied in a pretty bow by the Republicans and then they backed out on their promises than no American workers would lose their jobs. Kind of like the Patriot Act with its glamorous wish list for a better America and safer future.Thanks Republicans for giving the authorities more power. Yes I know Democrats signed it too but more importantly it was pushed by Republican leadership.

There Dave H goes with his “its not about free trade”. Oh how convienient when it serves your purpose. I stopped reading your downloads over a year ago so don’t bother for I lost respect for you back then.

Marly says — “They are totally crazy if they do not understand that the USA is a democratic country and the majority of the people went to pole to vote and the democratic party won”.
And you, Marly, are apparently totally ignorant, because the USA is a Republic, NOT a Democracy.
As Benjamin Franklin was leaving Constitution Hall on Sept. 17, 1787, he heard a lady ask, “Well, Doctor, what have we got – a republic or a monarchy?” To which he replied: “A republic, madam – if you can keep it.”

IN OUR REPUBLIC WE DETERMINE OUR POLITICAL LEADERS BY ELECTIONS SO YOU BS DOES NOT NEGATE MARY’S STATEMENT AT ALL, SHE GETS IT DOES NOT APPEAR YOU DO!!

Reply for Marly

Sorry to contradict you – the United States is NOT a Democracy, it is aREPRESENTATIVE REPUBLIC. Seems the same thing but is actually quite different, which is why there is an Electoral College acting on the popular vote and not majority vote wins elections.

Reply for Goodwater @ 9:22

You apparently have blindly accepted the authorised and sanitized history of the myth of our benevolent and philanthropic Founding Fathers. Go to http://www.anationbeguiled.com and read what history actually says about our founding – it doesn’t quite co-incide with the commonly held belief. And again, contrary to belief, our founders belived in taxation, and wished to assist the worse off in the community by taxing the better off to pay for that betterment, xomething you GOPer “freedom lovers” happily ignore.

Maybe you’re worth as much as you think you are, Alicia. There’s only one way to find out. Put in the long hours, get the necessary education, risk your money (or any investors’ money you can wrangle) and your pride, and start your own company. There’s only one obstacle (actually many, but from the same source) in your way, Alicia. That is Big Government, which you Liberal Progressives have enabled with your uninformed votes.

Why don’t you stop whining what Wal-Mart is doing and start your own company. Nobody is standing in your way but yourself and the bearer of government regulations.

I know a guy who used to sit and bs with Sam Walton. He was a plain, fair man who would be appalled at what his family has done. He was very unmaterialistic and only had a Cadillac because his wife bought them each one. He’s the kind of CEO we need. I heard of a CEO/owner of a large retail company (can’t remember the name) who only takes $500,000 a year and pays his employees $18 per hour. In the same vein in the owner of a large grocery store who is retiring and giving the store to the employees. We need more people like this who care about their fellow Americans, not about their own pocketbooks.

Actually Clear Channel is OWNED by Bain Capital, owned by Romney.

Most of America’s media is OWNED by corporations or idiots like Rupber (Faux News) Murdock, proven to be unethica.

Rob

I find it amazing how the FACTS just don’t seem to line up with claims from the right wing.

Rob

So maybe its the Republicans who “lie so much” and can’t face some of their own failures. There are a few of them that need to be taken out to the wood shed too!

Robert and eddie,
Sure just continue to distract and misdirect the real issues.

Corruption
Incompetence
cronyism
thievery
and yes treason
This is what our federal government and especially this administration has become full of…why should I be forced to pay for more of it?!?

Many of these daily articles are a distraction and not always truthful.

The Republicans do not get it. They are playing dictators, while we are leaving in a democratic country where the people have spoken. Ann Coulter think the Republican should educate the people. It seems to me that she is still insulting the American People treating them as ignorant. With her irrational behavior and attitude, she is killing slowly the Republican Party. OMG! Ann Coulter thinks that she is smart as anybody else. She is out of her mind.

Now who is going to educate the Republicans It surely can’t be snippy Ms Ann Coulter who tears bridges down not builds them.

Works for me!

I’d be willing to bet all of Bob Livingston’s gold and silver coins that the success of O’Bama’s second term would then be so great that it will guarantee that the REPUBLICANS are the ones that won’t see the inside of the White House for 50 years.

And Wayne, of course, will bet against me, thereby virtually guaranteeing that I will win the bet. Bet on FORWARD over BACKWARD every time, Wayne, and you might do better.

I agree with what you said, Alex, about “you can’t beat success into some people”. Maybe they don’t want it, maybe they can’t handle it. We should be grateful for people who contribute to the economy rather than take from it.
Also, a fair tax is a tax everyone pays. It isn’t fair that so many don’t pay anything. Various percentages have been considered, but it is the same PERCENTAGE for everyone. Yes, there would be exceptions.

Actually, Marly, Ann Coulter is a very intelligent lady, even though I don’t agree with a lot of her stands.

I agree DaveH she Was a Shover of Romney down Our Throats !!!!!

Ann Coulter is one those people who don’t accept the truth. In other words she is delusional. The dumb thing about Ann and her fellow so called right wing women is that they didn’t want to accept that they horrible GOP candidates with terrible and annoying backgrounds. Just imagine Herman Cain, the white women groper being US president; just imagine Mitt Romney who wanted polygamy in the WH, I believe Ann Coulter being 2nd wife, wanted to president; just imagine Perry, the drunk and guy who used the N word wanted to be president; just imagine Santorum the small self-anointed American pope who called Blacks BIT suckers, wanted to be president; just image Michelle Bachman who called us Blacks we were better of as slaves, being president; just imagine Paul, whose candidacy was sponsored by KKK groups, wanted to be president! I think Republicans have a mental disease or blockage. They think Ann Coulter and her so called right wing GOP females own American people as property. They don’t. They are dummies! Let’s enjoy we re-elected President Obama.

RBT says — “I’d be willing to bet all of Bob Livingston’s gold and silver coins that the success of O’Bama’s second term would then be so great that it will guarantee that the REPUBLICANS are the ones that won’t see the inside of the White House for 50 years”.
It took me a while to write this comment because I couldn’t stop laughing at the irony of it.
http://www.thechortle.com/Chortle23/TheChortle2207_ROFLMAO.png

Surprise, Surprise, a Liberal Progressive is willing to bet somebody else’s money on his projection. That was classic, RBT. Thank you for that good laugh.

Did I post the following: Did you guys read what Dick Morris wrote today? He says the economy is tanking. I believe he wants continue scheming FoxNews and Contributors’ money. The economy is now improving. Unemployment is below 7% national wide and 5% in Madison Wisconsin. The Dow is up 200 points. Nobody should believe him. But I know there are brain-washed right wingers and diehard racists who will believe him anyway. These are the same people who believed him Romney would win. Good luck with your delusions and whims or lies.

The wealthy have done their best to send jobs overseas and taking away worker benefits while paying themselves with handsome benefits and golden parachutes. Their greed is what tanked the Middle Class and some are still the arrogant takers you applaud.

Eddie says — “The wealthy have done their best to send jobs overseas and taking away worker benefits while paying themselves with handsome benefits and golden parachutes”.
Yes, to a simple-minded Liberal Progressive, it might seem a simple task to uproot your company and take it to a foreign country, but it is far from simple. There must be a very great disincentive to stay in the US for the company owners to uproot their companies and their families to move some place far away. Ignorant Liberal Progressive Followers and their Not-So-Innocent Leaders have created that great disincentive by helping themselves to other peoples’ money and choices with Big Government meddling in our Marketplaces.
The only way to turn things around is to shrink Government dramatically. And with the vast numbers of Propagandized people that now occupy our Once-Great Country, that isn’t very likely. So fasten your seat belts and get ready for some major economic swirling down the drain.
Ironically, despite all the attacks I suffer from the Ignorant and Self-Serving Liberal Progressives on this board, I have very modest requirements for happiness and a very strong base of financial acumen, so I will do alright in any environment. It is the Propagandized Liberal Progressive Followers who will suffer the most when they get their way. Like the saying goes — “Watch out what you wish for, it might come true”.

Those”ignorant Progressive Liberals” are wide awake Dave H. and aren’t buying what you have been attempting to sell. All your name calling won’t change the dirty tricks from crony capitalism or Wall Street manipulators or even the myriad of banksters. As you have said many times there is no pure Capitalism and you can dream all you want that it will magically arise from the dust. You need to concentrate on the Cronies and change their bad habits before true capitalism will ever be considered credible. I’ll do my part how about doing yours!

Same here DaveH. Same here. Nothing like a quiet simple life, which I never realized just how wonderful it is, is the only way to fly. The more “things” we have the more complicated life becomes. I work hard and I play hard, but my life is simple, quiet, peaceful and comfortable via the road of life’s turmoil and strife. It was worth it. Like they say, what doesn’t kill you makes you stronger…and smarter.

Thank you, Moonbeam. And congratulations on achieving your desired life-style.

Eddie,
How do we change the Crony Capitalists? By building an even larger Government than the one which created them in the first place? You make no sense, as usual.

That is your spin and personal opinion Dave H. Isn’t it nice to have that freedom?

I believe Mr. Root is suffering from a severe case of cognitive dissonance. He actually believes that the repulsivecans can solve this problem. That is like asking the fox to guard the hen house.

Carlucci says – “…suffering from a severe case of cognitive dissonance.” I like to call it buyer’s remorse. I’m not as smart as Mr. Root, but I would have never flipped the script like that. We either believe in our principals or we don’t. Pull a switcherooney on folks and all credibility is lost.

Never take steps backward. I see people do it all the time and they rue the very day they backed up. They happened to be bent forward at the time.

It is interesting to compare the screeds of the liberal comments with those of the conservative comments. With one or two exceptions, the conservative comments are ungrammatical and poorly spelled. They also don’t make much sense, but they yell a lot. The liberal comments are reasoned and reasonable. Maybe that’s why the conservative comments are so over the top: actual reason is something they apparently can’t abide.

Move over folks,the grammar Nazi’s have returned….
Cheers!
-CC.

Analyze this picture and you can see the Cloward and Piven Plan to Develop Class warfare was On the Chalk Board years earlier , http://oi50.tinypic.com/28syh7a.jpg

Hey Tony, looks like Cloward and Piven were successful in causing division among the people. United we stand. Divided we fall which is exactly what we’re seeing today. Millions of us against an elite group of liars, whores and thieves who need a good old fashion beat down. And we act as if our hands are tied, helpless to stop the destruction. We really need to collectively grow a pair of low hanging, far and wide swinging shiny brass ones.

Oh the weird, creepy and freaky, fantastic visual…

Moonbeam you need to copyright that Imagine and get a Design patent on the image and Utility patent the Brass Ones actions on taking out the Critters along the path back to Liberty Avenue on it too …LOL Think of the Video game Royalties !!!!!!!

Rob,
Trickle down worked great when Reagan was president. Just look at the numbers if you can still add. Jimmy Carter left us an economy where the term stagflation was invented: GDP numbers in the 1-2% range, unemployment running 8-10%, inflation running 15% and mortgage rates running 21%
These numbers were worse than the numbers that Obama inherited.

Using trickle down economics, Reagans GDP numbers after his third year in office were running 6-7%. Obamas GDP numbers after 4 years in office are running 1-2%.

And don’t give me “It was all Bush’s Fault” remark which just shows off your ignorance.

Where were you in the eighties? Were you working a wage earning job, running your own company or sucking your thumb?

Trickle down doesn’t work? How is it you are able to afford a computer, plus all the other things you may consider necessities for your life?
What you are doing on this site is pure intellectual athletics nothing else, or should I say hot air.

Lets us consider this one simple Obama Illusion regarding the idea that he is going to increase the income and improve the middle class by conning the republicans into a Bush tax cut extension for the Middle Class and Pay for it by taking the funds from the rich with a Tax hike , all with the illusion that this is an Increase of wealth for the middle Class when its nothing but an extension of what has been in place for the past 10 years ….. Think about this How is this Going to Be any Improvement to the Overall Economy ???

We will be in the very same place but actually worse off because The people Obama is going to tax will not be producing as much tax revenues because of this oppressive policy that along with the EPA and CIA and FBI raids on companies like Gibson assaulting the operations of the so called free market by Obama Nazis How will any kind of trickle Up or down happen ??????

Without a substantial manufacturing base, trickle down is ineffective for a worker to meet the sustainable and liveable wage threshold.

Robert Smith says:
November 29, 2012 at 7:52 am
Harold says: “The wealthy pay more than their fair share. Soaking the wealthy just doesn’t work. ”

Explain to me again how “trickle down” has worked so well.
Rob
_______________________________________________________________________

Explain to me how wealth redistribution has worked so well…
No wait, you don’t have to…we saw how well it worked in Soviet Russia!

You’re either an idiot or a Party propagandist. While the marginal tax rates were higher in (actually) the late 30′s, 40′s, 50′s, 60′s, and 70′s, there were so many LEGAL government sanctioned tax deductions that that the true rate everyone paid was much, much less. I remember when as a member of the middle class I could write off credit card interest and interest on cars loans, and a whole host of other allowances in order to mitigate the final tax paid. Tip O Neil and Reagan removed those for me. Get educated, or stop the propaganda. In either case quit jerking our chains.

In 50s and 60s Black people were not counted as people. Republicans could not care less how Blacks were living or what conditions they were. Please don’t perpetuate such thinking.

Yes Neon not so bright the wealthy (you know that 1-2%) did pay up to 90% in tax and they still remained wealthy. Comprehend ?

pmbalele says:
November 29, 2012 at 1:50 pm
In 50s and 60s Black people were not counted as people. Republicans could not care less how Blacks were living or what conditions they were. Please don’t perpetuate such thinking.
__________________________________________________________________

And now that black people have been voting Democrat for 50 years they’re still poor, uneducated and living in crime ridden slums…Good Job Democrats! You’ve created a Reservation of Dependant Black Voters in every major city in the US.

And it’s never going to change as long as “welfare is a way of life and everything is free”.

Good point JC!

In 50s and 60s Black people were not counted as people. Republicans could care less how Blacks were living or what conditions they were. Please don’t perpetuate such thinking. It won’t work. People of all races now realize they are equal before the law and opportunities, although I know republicans think they are above the law.

pmbalele says:
November 29, 2012 at 7:54 pm
In 50s and 60s Black people were not counted as people. Republicans could care less how Blacks were living or what conditions they were. Please don’t perpetuate such thinking. It won’t work. People of all races now realize they are equal before the law and opportunities, although I know republicans think they are above the law
____________________________________________________________________

You completely missed the point.
The Democrats don’t care either, or things would have improved for the blacks
…wouldn’t they?
The fact is Democrat politicians like their “black folk” poor and stupid and dependant on freebies…it’s the only voter base they really can depend on.

Black people should be given no special treatment and be as equal in society as our Constitution prescribes. But we won’t see it especially now that we have an affirmative action puppet President…elected by the welfare class. “Because he’s black”.
What a bunch of ignorant racists.

Finally!! Someone who gets it. STOP THE SPENDING!!!

But the government doesn’t trust the Users to make good choices for themselves therefore the government decides to make the choices for all. Simply put, it means people who aspire to work with government do not trust themselves to make good choices because there is the uncertainty to those choices, but if they make choices this way en masse they decree that these are good no matter the bad consequences.Their response is more of a fist at God of Heaven to dare to sort this out.

Robert smith you are either a communist or just a plain ignorant! The only reason obama so called won was because of Pravda and the New world Order..nothing else…The voting was rigged long before the election….But you ignorants jump on the “Yes we can” bandwagon like fools…the Red media told you so…you ignorants will not succeed in taking down this country…People like you doing the dirty work for the handful of Rich elitists of the NWO are fooled into thinking what they want you to believe….They have to crash the economy in order to achieve their ultimate goal…Soon you will be spending the Amero and answering to the U.N.///When it’s all over i hope you are still this proud of your Savior…Some will fight to defend your freedom and win or lose they will be real american heroes..you will be labeled a traitor. 55 years ago when i was a teeneager ,I still remember the real america.. This could never have happened then…how did they corrupt your ignorant minds into what has becoming idiots of the state?? Now you can call me your dirty names,,maybe even Racist or Capitalist,Tea bagger or what ever….You are the clueless one robert! maybe i wont be alive too much longer but until then i can say with fervor”Go F yourself”..

Bob Peters,
Great comments, especially the last one

Imagine the Power that was handed over to the Russians by ignorant followers in 1917. And then imagine the suffering and premature deaths that accompanied that Power for the next 70 years. Then imagine a World Body such as the UN, which does not even pretend to be elected by the people, wielding much more Power then the Russian Communists ever dreamed of having.
That is what the ignorant Progressive Followers are delivering us to. It isn’t going to be pretty.

DaveH is right and its Starts with All Media control , the TV Medias are already controlled or about to be like they are doing with Fox news this Morning in Europe . Heres the other ways that are coming down the pike and once they divide us in our communications the rest is history !!! http://www.naturalnews.com/038125_United_Nations_internet_global_government.html

Robert Smith writes:
“Sadly, to run down Obama the right seems to want to blame the Republicans for being stupid.”

Silly them. Blaming Republicans instead of President Bush.

Robert Smith: “Oh well… It’s what I’ve learned to expect.”

Much learning yet to come.

Vicky, I like you alot! You have a great head on your shoulders. I always like your “take no prisners” responces.

michiganminuteman says:
“Vicky, I like you alot! You have a great head on your shoulders. I always like your “take no prisoners” responses.”

I try not to. Prisoners are expensive to babysit.

Very well said!

The only thing your charts prove (assuming they are accurate) is that some people are motivated and willing to take a risk, while others are not motivated and willing to take a risk. Success will breed further success. The more you have, the more you can make.

But it’s a plain fact that success is available to anyone who wants to pursue it. You could take $200 and play with penny stocks. In a mere seven to nine trades, you can turn that $200 into $25,000. I know from personal experience. $25,000 can be very easily turned into $50,000, and $50,000 into much more. After a point, there is more than enough capital to be debt free in your personal finances, and there is enough capital to open a small business. A small business, combined with wise investing, will turn into a revenue stream.

But you have to be willing to take a risk, to put your money on the line. You have to be willing to take a chance and open that business.

Either way, it’s a plain fact that success can be achieved by anyone in this country. Your charts only prove to demonstrate that a large number of people who could be successful are choosing instead to settle for a standard wage at a simple job, to pay their bills, shop at Walmart, and go bowling on Friday night. Ask those people to invest with you, and they aren’t interested (again, I know from personal experience). Suggest to them how they can take a small amount of money and turn it into much more, and they cry that they have no money (though they have the money to go to restaurants, bowling, etc., and to buy Wii systems and X-Box). You can’t beat success into some people. They just don’t want the risk.

But they’re glad to take advantage of someone else’s success when they take the risk. “I didn’t put my money on the line, but dang it, they aren’t paying their fair share for being successful after mortgaging their house to build a business I didn’t have the courage to build with them. They should pay more, because they succeeded where I didn’t even bother to try.”

Let me say this GALT. I don’t care about the economics of it anymore. Wayne is right, and you don’t know what you’re talking about. Nevertheless, my own opinion on this whole thing is that the government is using the law to steal from some and give to others. Taxes are wrong in the first place. They serve a functional purpose. They give us roads, fire departments, etc. But outside of the necessities we all take advantage of, taxes are theft.

You want to talk about fair shares? How about the 99% start picking up their “fair share” of the losses that result from the risk that goes into starting a business, making an investment, or trying in some other way to earn an honest buck. They have their hands out if someone makes a dollar, but it’s all on us if we lose one. In fact, you act like it’s our just desserts when we lose, though you’re happy to benefit when we don’t.

As always, liberals are all hypocrites.

THANK YOU, GALT!!

As I read Wayne’s latest attempt to turn fiction into “truth”, I said to myself with a groan, “I’m going to have to spend way too much time answering the lies that appear in just about every sentence in Wayne’s latest opinions-unsupported-by-facts article’”.

It gives me great pleasure to see that you’ve done the job already and I can just add a few more FACTS and later joust with the STOOGES when they appear on site. (Jousting with stooges is great anti-Alzheimer’s therapy—better than crossword puzzles).

An interesting piece by Harold Myerson in the WashPost on 11/23 entitled “What the ‘takers’ want”. He makes the point that the people who are constantly derided as the “takers” by the self-deluded supporters of the plutocracy are actually the “makers” rather than the other way around as Wayne and friends would have us believe. He concludes by saying “If these self-designated makers feel beleaguered by takers, they have only themselves to blame”.

A reminder of what one of America’s most successful investors (Warren Buffet) said:

“I have worked with investors for 60 years and I have yet to see anyone – not even when capital gains rates were 39.9 percent in 1976-77 – shy away from a sensible investment because of the tax rate on the potential gain,” he said
“People invest to make money, and potential taxes have never scared them off.”

Galt, less “private sector” = Slavery. Get off your stupid tax rant. Our so called gubmint has become a den of thiefs.

What’s the matter Warrior you blindly accept “facts” spewed from the right but coldly condemn facts from the left. The super wealthy and Wall Street hacks have also become a “den of thieves”. Kindly look into all the facts instead of following so sheepishly to the drumbeat of the left or right.

Alex brings out the same tired old “taxes are stealing” and “anyone can get rich” arguments. And, of course, Alex has to suggest that GALT’s figures may not be accurate—pro forma. You can find literally tons of material on the topic but I seriously doubt that anyone can find fault with the raw IRS and BLS and Census data (unless they are trying to be “willfully ignorant”). There are many good sites that look at the question from many directions—look at inequality.org, Visualizing Economics (neat graphic displays), and Who Rules America (from which site GALT extracted much of his data)—-three good ones. Read “United in Our Delusion”, an article by David Cay Johnston, for an illuminating look at American’s knowledge and attitudes on the subject

Alex says, “Success will breed further success. The more you have, the more you can make”. Yep. This is borne out by looking at the growing income-wealth inequality figures. Yes, it surely does seem that the more the greedy rich “have”, the more they “make”. Too bad it’s all at the expense of the 99% and the greater good of the nation.

Alex says, “But you have to be willing to take a risk, to put your money on the line”. True enough, but the very richest DON’T put their money on the line. They invest it in non-risky ways that mainly serve to create ever-more obscene wealth at the top rather than create jobs.

Alex says, “But they’re glad to take advantage of someone else’s success when they take the risk.“ Thanks for reminding us that Goldman-Sachs and all the other vultures took advantage of the modest “success” of the 99% when they nearly destroyed the economy in their greedy risk-taking. Yep, profiting from actions that led to the massive loss of home equity and 401K capital for the 99% is really admirable. Especially when you “hedged” your own losses. Privatizing gain and socializing costs has been the big game of the plutocracy and corporations for a long time, Alex.

As always, the greedy rich are hypocrites.

Other than showing typical Democratic Party indoctrination of jealousy and envy is there a point to Galt’s epistle?

Alex Frazier,
Very well said. My hat is off to you

To all you tax lovers – to tax one’s labor is pure and simple > SLAVERY. That’s why the Constitution, when created in 1789, did not include an “income tax.” The Founders created a country where individual liberty, self sufficency, creativeness, were the core values to individual prosperity. The robber barrons of 1913 knew that they could control the populus by creating the income tax – the Tax Code is over 73,000 pages long and contains all sorts of schemes to garner votes. Now we have nearly 50% of the populous who pay no taxes and live off the credits, welfare and subsidies written into the Tax Code.

If you want to live in slavery than move to France, Spain or Greece, but get off my back with your selfish demands to my income which I generate through my HARD work. So get off you @$$ and make a million. I’m fed up with your selfish and greedy demands of my and someone elses labor.

You are RIGHT !! Whats the Difference between Tax Slavery or Interest rate Slavery ??

Galt: The figures you cite are devastating. The bottom 80% seem to have lost enormously in their net worth over the twenty-seven years cited. This loss in net worth and the even greater percentage loss in financial assets is destabilizing, and we may be destined to see some serious unrest coming.

Neither the Russian, Chinese, or Cuban Revolutions had much to do with Karl Marx’s theories. They had everything to do with societies where there was a small class of very rich people and a very large class of people who were poor, felt that they might be becoming more poor, and decided that they had the right to do something about this.

Your figures suggest that something similar may be happening in USA.

W.

You envy their wealth, Galt? Then do something to earn it from them, instead of participating in the Society of Criminals:
http://mises.org/daily/4125

Tony says — “You are RIGHT !! Whats the Difference between Tax Slavery or Interest rate Slavery ??”.
Only that one is Force, while the other is voluntary.
If you don’t like the interest rates offered, Tony, then DON’T borrow their money.

DaveH you made My Point !!!

This is what we are Not Debating regarding the way the capital System supports FREEDOM and its Self reliant function away from Government Controlled economic system that the Founders warned us to Never become dependent on !!!!!
And the way this Administration Praises Shariah Law and Shariah Finance which Rejects the right to Choose Private Equality that charges Interest on the use of money in the Self reliant Economic markets I say we are all being Played for FOOLS while we are Bleeding dry of our Primary wealth supply !!!!!

Brain (Right) says — “He makes the point that the people who are constantly derided as the “takers” by the self-deluded supporters of the plutocracy are actually the “makers” rather than the other way around as Wayne and friends would have us believe”.
Their is a simple solution to that problem which anybody with any Brains at all can figure out. Those presumed “makers” (really the takers) can simply pool their monies, put in the long hours, take the financial and personal risks, and start their own companies. Since they presume to be the “makers”, then they should have no problem at all out-competing those who they claim to be the falsely-named “makers”.

There are definitely problems in our Society relating to certain Rich people and the Politicians. But they are not what the Liberal Progressives would have you believe. It is the very UnFree Markets that have been championed by Liberal Progressives which have led to UnFair Competion and an UnFair Distribution of Wealth.
Without Government meddling in the Marketplace, the only way Companies could make money would be to please the consumers of their Goods and Services. They would be slaves to the consumers. And any upstart business that had the correct solutions could knock their Bigger Competitors right off their pedestals. That’s why Political Entrepreneurs (as opposed to Market Entrepreneurs) gravitate to the UnFree Markets controlled by Big Government. With Unfree Markets, they can survive and prosper without the Consumers’ blessings, instead getting special favors from their Crony Politicians (such as quotas, tariffs, favorable regulations, subsidies, price controls, and other special protections).
It is difficult to know whether people like Galt or RBT are shilling for the Crony Politicians and/or the Crony Capitalists, or if they are just innocently ignorant, but innocent or not, the net results are the same — They are playing right into the hands of self-serving Leaders and their well-heeled Pals.

For Free Markets, Limited Government, Personal Responsibility, Individual Liberty, and the PEACE that naturally comes with those — Think Libertarian, Vote Libertarian:
http://www.lp.org/platform

Quit letting the PTBs and their Shills make fools of you.

For those who want to learn Truth, instead of the Propaganda that is promoted by the Liberal Progressives:
http://mises.org/daily/1973

Alex Frazier, Can we talk? I would like to know more about trading and turning $200 into $25,000. I know trading is nothing to take lightly and is not for the faint of heart, but I can certainly afford to risk $200 and work it to my betterment. Is there someway we can talk? PLEASE teach me how to do this. I dibbled and dabbled with this years ago but didn’t know what I was doing and had no teacher.

How can I contact you or you contact me? How can I get my contact info to you?

Well, only one attempted response from the “willfully ignorant, functionally illiterate”
faction…….which begins by questioning the “numbers” being used…….I guess the
reason for this is……they are “evidence” that call into question the numbers being
used by “wayne who?” and well as the “conclusions” he attempts to reach in today’s “mushroom feeding ” session………I suppose that since it is an “attempted response”, I should make an attempt to communicate………even though there is a low probability
of such a result actually taking place………but before we do THAT…..just one more
set of numbers………( regarding the plight of those “victims” who are the 1% .)

Table 3: Share of wealth held by the Bottom 99% and Top 1% in the United States, 1922-2007.

Bottom 99 percent Top 1 percent
1922 63.3% 36.7%
1929 55.8% 44.2%
1933 66.7% 33.3%
1939 63.6% 36.4%
1945 70.2% 29.8%
1949 72.9% 27.1%
1953 68.8% 31.2%
1962 68.2% 31.8%
1965 65.6% 34.4%
1969 68.9% 31.1%
1972 70.9% 29.1%
1976 80.1% 19.9%
1979 79.5% 20.5%
1981 75.2% 24.8%
1983 69.1% 30.9%
1986 68.1% 31.9%
1989 64.3% 35.7%
1992 62.8% 37.2%
1995 61.5% 38.5%
1998 61.9% 38.1%
2001 66.6% 33.4%
2004 65.7% 34.3%
2007 65.4% 34.6%

Dear Alex Frazier,

Regarding the numbers…….there is a link which will take you to the source, with those
numbers and a lot more information……….and if you wish to dispute their validity, then
you have the “information” you require to do so………..hopefully you do understand
the process of raising a “healthy mushroom”…………I am sorry for disturbing this
process……by shining a little light on the subject and exposing your actual food
source for what it is………..

Now on to your “attempted” response……..which makes no attempt to “dispute”
either the numbers or the information available with them…….which makes you a
loyal “mushroom”, but not much of anything else…….and despite “wayne who” s,
rather glowingly self constructed bio, he is a man on the verge of complete collapse
in a business sense, reporting that he would not be able to “survive” Obama’s
second term, or survive the rigor of a tax audit…….but in this sense he is a “job creator”
at least in the sense that he had an accountant and now a tax lawyer…….so
in terms of success by example, he also doesn’t seem to have much to offer,
except a “big mouth” which is now solely devoted to “whining”……and this also
seems to be in conflict with YOUR message…….

But it’s a plain fact that success is available to anyone who wants to pursue it. You could take $200 and play with penny stocks. In a mere seven to nine trades, you can turn that $200 into $25,000. I know from personal experience. $25,000 can be very easily turned into $50,000, and $50,000 into much more. After a point, there is more than enough capital to be debt free in your personal finances, and there is enough capital to open a small business. A small business, combined with wise investing, will turn into a revenue stream.

That’s a very impressive story Alex………I noticed that your personal experience
begins at the $25,000 to $50, 000 level…….and then extends itself……..but not really,
because now you talk about opening a small business………also the first part of
your sequence $200 to $25,000 in seven to nine trades, represents quite a return
on investment…………..so if this part is so easy……why give up the greater returns
in penny stocks, for a mere “quite easily gotten”, but mere 100% return…….and why
give either of that up…..to start a small business……..

What can be known about YOU to this point is……..you are not very detail oriented….
you do not question the details regarding “wayne who”s, numbers and fantasies,
you have no interest is the details regarding conflicting numbers and information….
and as an “argument”…….you have your own numbers and fantasy……also without
“details”……..hopefully you do not find this question “offensive”? the “devil” being
IN THE DETAILS?????

Either way, it’s a plain fact that success can be achieved by anyone in this
country.

I don’t know if that’s useful or true……because the “details” are missing….for
your success………but more to the point……”anyone” is a meaningless qualifier, what would be of more interest would be what you think of this statement……

It ’s a plain fact that success can be achieved by EVERYONE in this
country.

Please evaluate that…….agree or disagree……true or not true,,,,,and of
course the why or why not’s regarding your answer……..

Your charts only prove to demonstrate that a large number of people who could be successful are choosing instead to settle for a standard wage at a simple job, to pay their bills, shop at Walmart, and go bowling on Friday night. Ask those people to invest with you, and they aren’t interested (again, I know from personal experience). Suggest to them how they can take a small amount of money and turn it into much more, and they cry that they have no money (though they have the money to go to restaurants, bowling, etc., and to buy Wii systems and X-Box). You can’t beat success into some people. They just don’t want the risk.

Well, Alex…..I guess your marketing skills and those “missing details” were not very
persuasive……..because who could possibly say NO to YOU………or “wayne who”?
You do of course realize that, you have nothing NEW to offer…….including the
STORY………..such offers fill my inbox every day…….were responsible for the
last depression and this one……..nor do they change the fact that the details
point out that 1% and the wealth they control……are very difficult to displace?????

Let me say this GALT. I don’t care about the economics of it anymore.

Of course you do………the 1% are the one’s who don’t care……the difference for
them is meaningless………but you and ‘wayne who”, are not one of them and probably not even close……..and you are here to listen to wayne……….so while you
make the claim that “anyone” can do it………and it’s easy…….neither of you
makes a convincing case……..but at least wayne knows why he is here……..????

As for your “ignorance ” regarding economics……( which is really willfull ignorance )
that becomes easier to understand when you make the attempt to evaluate the
question above “regarding” EVERYONE………and it will also clarify the questions
that were asked of ‘wayne who”….and his “job creator” fantasy……

As for my knowledge vs. yours or wayne’s or anyone else’s…….on any subject….
it would appear that for all the “rhetoric” regarding me……..I’m the one that has
enough intelligence to be be asking YOU the questions…….about the things
you claim to already KNOW?

What I KNOW, is that you DON”T KNOW the answers………or the FACTS…or the
history……or the SCIENCE or much of anything else……..and my focus is on
asking the RIGHT QUESTIONS……..which to this point is a waste of time……..
because despite all the “evidence”……..you all still believe you KNOW things……
and what you all KNOW is all different and unique, from that which everybody else
claims to know…….

This would seem to indicate a clue as to what you all really KNOW?

But what do I know……I mean, it could just be me????

What would be more fitting that to have the number ONE “willfully ignorant, functional
illiterate” David H……weigh in with several posts and links, demonstrating that
he still has “no clue” what any of the words mean……..provides the usual “self contradictory rhetoric”………in the ever shifting quicksand that is……totally devoid
of any reality…….the “perfect mushroom”……….in the invalid swamp of ‘economic
mysticism”….where no fact is ever admitted……no error acknowledged…….and every
day is a new day…….which has no past……and therefor no future………Hi DaveH.

“What would be more fitting that to have the number ONE “willfully ignorant, functional
illiterate” David H……weigh in with several posts and links, demonstrating that
he still has “no clue” what any of the words mean” <— Galt

You noticed it as well

GALT,
“The top 1 percent pay 40 percent of all the taxes.” This is a misleading statistic; it implies tax-rate while using tax-burden. For example: If we pay the same tax-rate (20% each) and GALT you make $100,000 and I make $1,000,000 the total tax paid would be $220,000. You would pay only 9% while I would pay a whopping pay 91%. Does that sound fair to you GALT? You only pay 9% of all the taxes while I pay 91%.

Using the numbers for 2010 (35.4% and 42.1%) then the top 1% overpaid by 4.6% or underpaid by 2.1%. I’m suspicioning the 40% number. I bet it’s closer to 9%.

Many great posts, Galt. You have the “Con”.

GALT writes:
“Top 1 percent Next 9 percent Bottom 90 percent
.
.
.
…..Debt 5.9% 21.6% 72.5%

And the last line says it all…………”
____________________________________________

Yes it does. The bottom 90% (thus the majority of voters) looks a lot like tax and SPEND Democrats who to this day, using the force of government, spend much more of other peoples money than they STEAL at gunpoint and they BORROW the rest on the promise that they can STEAL that money in the near future.

I’m sorry, Peter……the “con” of what? That would have required a valid argument to
have been made in the first place, which is further required to be based on a valid
logically reasoned FACT based foundation…….

This subject is about is about the ‘economy’ which is based on “economics” which
is “invalid”……..because it has no factual foundation……and why it doesn’t work in
any form……..this is the history of every economy, with every form of government,
and of every empire since the dawn of civilization………you are simply fortunate
enough to be witnessing history repeating itself, for the LAST TIME!

You might say…….this is the FINAL CON?

Of course there is one advantage that the “willfully ignorant, functional illiterates” do have…..

they get to be surprised AGAIN, for the LAST TIME!

Galt says — “What would be more fitting that to have the number ONE “willfully ignorant, functional illiterate” David H……weigh in with several posts and links, demonstrating that
he still has “no clue” what any of the words mean”.

Flashman says (to above comment) — “You noticed it as well”.

As usual the Liberal Progressives demonstrate their childish techniques of ad hominem attacks in lieu of facts. I feel like I’ve been transported back to the past and into grammar school again.

Its still the spending stupid! It always has been and it always will be!

I said this before and I will continue to repeat ad naseum, All you hear from politicians and pundits alike is the topic of taxes and how they have to be raised. They do not! The federal government needs to be pulled back in to its proper Constitutional limits.

Its that simple!

Poor DavidH still hasn’t learned that both “willfull ignorance” and “functional illiteracy”
are “conditions” which are demonstrated by “evidence” that the he insistently and consistently provides, day after day……….that the fact that he is both of these, is revealed
day after day……each and every time he responds to me ( or rather attempts to respond )

They are not personal attacks, they are revealed truths…….and they are simply noted
as the FACTS they are………..and they are certainly not logical fallacies, that would imply that an argument is being made……when no argument has yet to be advanced……

One does not argue the validity of economics, by calling some one a socialist or communist while claiming to be a capitalist…….one simply demonstrates that one is and
remains “willfully ignorant” of the “subject” ( repeated numerous times )……as well as
being a ‘functional illiterate” for failing to comprehend what has been repeatedly written again and again, as to why this is true, and ignoring the history, philosophy, science
and economic sources which support the argument for this subject.

Other the other hand, DavidH is quite capable of showing that while he does not comprehend what a logical fallacy is, he is a master of both the ad hominum attack, the personal; attack……and every other type of fallacy…..while being.completely oblivious
of what he is doing or has done.

“You envy their wealth, Galt? Then do something to earn it from them, instead of participating in the Society of Criminals:
http://mises.org/daily/4125“

Here he asks a question, answers for me, labels me a criminal, and sends me to his
economic authority……..( economics is invalid ! )

For those who want to learn Truth, instead of the Propaganda that is promoted by the Liberal Progressives:
http://mises.org/daily/1973

Here he claims the TRUTH, cites liberal progressives…….two words which he does not
understand…….whose definitions contain zero economic references,….and then invokes
an economic authority………… ( economics is invalid ! )

As usual the Liberal Progressives demonstrate their childish techniques of ad hominem attacks in lieu of facts. I feel like I’ve been transported back to the past and into grammar school again.

Well as his final demonstration is complete…..as least he has found himself in the right place……..of course he didn’t learn much the first time through and things are much worse now………..( and economics is still invalid! )

Of course….”tomorrow is another day”….and this will have to be repeated again……

He who is a “willfully ignorant, functional illiterate”, has no past nor any future……
and while it all seems to be “the same f….ing day”,…….at least one can saves the “posts” and repeat them……

Economics is INVALID!!!!!!

So, let me get this straight…Obama has promised over 100 trillion in spending over the next 12 years to cover Medicare, Medicaid, Social Security and Obamacare…and the solution is to “tax the rich” to the tune of 85 billion to cover this? Hmmm…let’s see, we do some basic math and Whoa!!
This “Tax the Rich” scam only covers 1% of all the promised spending!
Wait that can’t be possible…unless of course the plan is to pacify the parasites, get the votes, destroy what’s left of free enterprise America, and dump the problem on the next President.

One might say He’s fiddling while Rome burns.
And somehow…the morons who asked for this, are applauding.

Pathetic.

GALT writes:
“Economics is INVALID!!!!!!”

If economics is invalid then why does the government need OUR money? It can go print its own. (Oh wait )

You think your so much smarter than everyone else but my advice to you sir Galt, brush up on your grammer and people might take you more seriously.

> You think your so much smarter than everyone else but my
> advice to you sir Galt, brush up on your grammer and
> people might take you more seriously.

“You think you’re so much smarter than everyone else, but, my advice to you, Sir Galt, is to brush up on your grammar, and people might take you more seriously.”

FTFY

– Smoov (in Michigan)

You care worried about grammar? What grammar? Grammar is for lawyers and book writers. In fact the way you speak, if it’s your language, is grammatically correct. This bookish language you read is for people who want to make money of gullible people. You cannot correct somebody of his or her language. There are all kinds of slangs in different parts of this country. Have you listened how Bob Dole pronounces “President”? He says “Present”. So be it with your grammar.

Actually what you need to get straight JC is that these are responses to “wayne who”?
solutions……..and what he believes is the “problem” ( his problem mostly )……and what
he believes is NOT the solution, because of the numbers he posts, which because the burdens they impose will prevent job creation and investment……

The actual numbers do NOT indicate this, nor does the history…….and wealth disparity
is at it’s greatest level, despite the fact that both taxation and regulation were far greater
burdens than in the past………

Wealth preservation by those who actually have it, does not seem to be a problem, now
or in the past……..of course, the idea that ‘actual wealth” can be preserved……is a tricky
one………and has proven quite ephemeral….in other times and places…….and in many
ways the ability to maintain this illusion is all that stands between them and another truth…….for while it has never been true that all men were created equal, those who are more equal than others when this illusion is no longer in place, usually ends very badly
for those who believed that wealth could be preserved and refused to do what was necessary to preserve the illusion…….only to find out that they are now less than equal
and have nothing at all.

It probably won’t make anything straighter for you…….but then you really had nothing to
contribute to the discussion anyway…….who knows, maybe you’ll do better next time.

Really, michiganminuteman, do you promise?

Do you think that will cure the “willfully ignorant, functional illiterates”?

Will it cure you? Seriously?

GALT writes:
“…despite the fact that both taxation and regulation were far greater
burdens than in the past…”

Actual taxes paid or marginal tax rate? Regulation is obviously far greater now then in the past as the government is FAR bigger and getting into FAR more things. And don’t forget the CRONY part of that liberal whipping dog, Capitalism.

Wonderful post, Mr. Frazier!!!

Right brain: A reminder of what one of America’s most successful investors (Warren Buffet)

Warren Buffoon? Really? One of the biggest crooks second only to Soros? You have got to be kidding, Brain? Playing by the rules is not in Mr. Bufoon’s dictionary. Did it escape your memory, Brain, that the day that the SEC notified Moody’s that it was being investigated, Warren Buffoon sold nearly 700,000 shares of stock prior to the public release of the information. Don’t you think it a bit ironic that the reason Moody’s was being investigated was for a long-term pattern of corruption. As you know, Moody is one of the rating agencies which rate the quality of securities, and what do you know?; their ratings were FUDGED. Did you happen to forget that little bit of history, Mr. Brainiac? Btw, that was one of the factors in the financial collapse of 2008, Mr. Brain! Of course, Mr. Buffoon will claim that its all just a “coincidence” but that’s what crooks like Warren the Buffoon always claim. Would you like to know just how much corruption really exists in the world of the Buffets and the Soros’? The next time you hear about a “big-announcement”, “positive or negative”, one that affects the price of stock, look back prior to the announcement, and look at the stock and options volume and price movement…ta da! And you hold this man up as the spokesman and advocate for raising taxes on the middle-class? Of course you would, being the useful-idiot that you are!

Vicki, both marginal and effective tax rates were higher, the deductions still existed,
but rates were different…….

as for regulations, quantity is irrelevant…….and enforcement is the issue…..obvious
cases of the lack of enforcement…..oil rigs in the gulf, ratings agencies, the S.E.C.
The F.D.A, gas and oil pipelines, refineries……and if you take the time to read the Fine
Print, by David Cay Johnston…….the reality is far worse than can you can imagine at the moment…….

so when I see or hear the phrase job killing regulations…..I come from MO…..and say
show me……..this will probably become clearer, as the frequency of gas pipelines continue to blow up…….but first I want to see the words in the CFR and then I want to see
the enforcement……..so if you have some free time……..

But it’s a plain fact that success is available to anyone who wants to pursue it.
A.F. : Few Winners … Many Loosers! GAMBLEING Pays the HOUSE!

GALT says:
November 29, 2012 at 7:20 pm
Actually what you need to get straight JC is that these are responses to “wayne who”?
solutions……..and what he believes is the “problem” ( his problem mostly )……and what
he believes is NOT the solution, because of the numbers he posts, which because the burdens they impose will prevent job creation and investment……
____________________________________________________________________

Yeah yeah yeah, blah blah blah….
Hey Mr. Narcisist…shouldn’t you be busy in front of a mirror preening yourself somewhere?

You love to run off at the mouth and congratulate yourself with how smart you think you are. You aren’t, you aren’t even clever. So save yourself any replies to me as I have no respect for your or your kind.

What you do is cloud the simplest and most basic of things with long winded pseudo intellectualism…and that’s as kind as I can be to you or any other conceited Marxist.

(You got beat up a lot as a kid didn’t you….)

So in other words JC you got nothing…….you are beaten, battered down, hammered, bested, and otherwise. CONQUERED……..

You sound like Khan, quoting Melville as Ahab, in Star Trek II.

“with my last breath I spit at thee…….”

So die already……learn from your mistakes……..as a mushroom, your upside
potential is AWESOME…………

You got the “attitude” down…….now you need the GAME to back it up…..

GET GAME!!!!!!

* GAME…….an element that is not available here from any of the mushroom feeders.

What chance DOOOO….. the “mushrooms” have?

You need to change yr handle and get Galt off of there. John Galt wasn’t a gleefully ignorant debt slave and shameless lover of taxes to thieves like you. You are a Libtard. Spin your BS numbers however you like, its is NOT our neighbor’s job to work twice as hard to support BOTH of us.

Apparently you dont see the long nightmare of acceptance that comes when socialists take over your nation and snake charm the folks into obscurity…a whole generation will die out before anyone says anything,and by then they will be too afraid.
You think that because you get quick results down at the fast food restaurant,that you can count on getting smarts to folks who dont posess any in a short amount of time….good luck with that one.
Lemmee see how that works out for you and a couple of decades from now,call me back.
You are being duped as we speak,and you dont like it.
Change will only come through God’s sovreignty,and America isnt about to admit that right now.
Cheers!
-CC.

Wanda,
Do you really think the Democrats would ever accept responsibility for their actions?

Will Republicans ever take responsibility for their actions? Hmmm!

Eddie47d Obama has been the Leader for 4 years FOOL its he that needs to take responsibility for his actions , inactions !!!

this is definately the way i feel this would put a stop to all arguments, obese and an answer to people wanting something for nothing. i am a 47 percenter and that’s about all we have for a president.

eddie47d says:
“Will Republicans ever take responsibility for their actions? Hmmm!”

They tried. Starting as early as April 2001, But alas the democrats blocked their attempts to avert economic disaster.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cMnSp4qEXNM

If that’s true then Vickie I reckon we have come full circle and both parties are at fault and need to drastically change. Tony seems to think its only the Democrats and I see alot of damage being done by the Republicans. So the battle “rages” on.

eddie47d says:
“If that’s true then Vickie I reckon we have come full circle and both parties are at fault and need to drastically change.”

You may have come full circle. If so welcome to the group that knows that both parties want bigger government. Now the question remains. Do YOU want bigger government? Most of your points seem to say you do.

Dick morris wrote that? So he’s gone from a failed pollster to…economic guru? LOL

Thing is…all the numbers and indicators are looking for an economic break out coming in 2013. Morris must be working magic on the numbers….lol

the most accurate thing about Dick Morris is the name his parents gave him. If Obama personally found the cure for cancer, Morris would declare it a catastrophe for the medical community.

Let those who have assimilated the most show their appreciation and patriotism by paying their fair share.

Pasori says “Unemployment is below 7% national wide and 5% in Madison Wisconsin”.

US Dept of Labor
THE EMPLOYMENT SITUATION — OCTOBER 2012
The unemployment rate was essentially unchanged at 7.9 percent, the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics reported today.

Wisconsin unemployment rate – October 2012 is 6.9%

Unemployment percentages have dropped because of the amount of people who aren’t being counted as seeking employment anymore. If you’re unemployed longer than a certain period of time, you don’t show up in unemployment statistics anymore. If you are no longer eligible for unemployment benefits, you don’t go to the unemployment office anymore, and where do you think those statistics come from? You have to look at the actual numbers of people seeking work, not just those going through unemployment offices.

Also, the stock market prices have gone up, more due to the on-going debasement of our currency value through printing/issuing more and more money, making every dollar lose value, so it takes more dollars now, to make up the same value that less dollars last year, was able to meet.

You have to look at the bigger picture of where those statistics and numbers come from, and how they were determined, if you’re going to understand what they mean in the first place.

This is going to take some effort on your part. Sorry about that, but this is an adult world, and we need to take adult responsibility to keep ourselves properly informed, not just keep taking people’s word for everything without question or even a deeper look.

– Smoov

Probably what you are seeing is the similar illusion that economics presents to you
when it suggests that money represents the correct measure of success, productivity, asset evaluation, wealth or any number of other things…….

In terms of “property protection” whether it be from national defense or domestic
or local service…….who receives more value?

The billionaire or the homeless person?

This was a rhetorical question with the use of intentional ironic extremes….since the billionaire will often receive services……with respect to the presence of, and protection
from the homeless person……..again, if you have some free time and now that
a proper comparative example has been provided,,,,,,further examples should
not be beyond your ability to discern for yourself……..run with it.

GALT Writes:
“In terms of “property protection” whether it be from national defense or domestic
or local service…….who receives more value?

The billionaire or the homeless person?”

Since property protection has no meaning to the dead and since government is supposed to protect life, liberty and the PURSUIT of happiness, who receives more value? The billionaire or the homeless person?

Yup. for the dead, meaning is irrelevant………don’t get carried away Vicki…..I said
you were useful….I said you were direct…..I said you were not a coward……..

I didn’t say you were intelligent……..but you may have potential…provided you don’t
lead off with “dead people”……..

Since no country or it’s economy has actually survived …….the lesson of history is,
YOU have learned nothing from history…….but thanks for sharing.

psssssttttt and economics is invalid.

As for the failure of government: The Social Conquest of Earth; E.O. Wilson

Will there be anything else?

Excuse me Andrew but I just want to respond to Galt. So Galt,…………..and……………so………………….2+2=………………….while………………..then…………………………………………………………..OK? ………….good luck Galt with trying to convert us with your endless blather and………..c’mon give us a break.

W………….o………………….w…………, M…………..A…………….R………………T………………….Y

c…………….a……………n……………………………y……………o………………….u……………………………………d…………..o…………………………T………H…………….i……….S??????????????????