Comments Subscribe to Personal Liberty Digest™ News Feed Subscribe to Personal Liberty Digest™ 

First Obamacare, Now Obamagreen

November 21, 2012 by  

First Obamacare, Now Obamagreen
PHOTOS.COM

Over the next four years, President Barack Obama will try to implement more sweeping changes in America, this time under the pretense of saving the Earth.

In 2009, the President slammed Obamacare down America’s throat. In 2013, it will be Obamagreen — with all the pitfalls of higher taxation, a repressed economy and greater power in the hands of Washington.

This is what the President himself said the evening of his victory:

But despite all our differences, most of us share certain hopes for America’s future. We want our kids to grow up in a country where they have access to the best schools and the best teachers. A country that lives up to its legacy as the global leader in technology and discovery and innovation, with all the good jobs and new businesses that follow.

We want our children to live in an America that isn’t burdened by debt, that isn’t weakened by inequality, that isn’t threatened by the destructive power of a warming planet [emphasis added].

It seems the President has determined that America and the world must face the immediate and paralyzing shock from manmade global warming. During his second term, the President will take expensive steps to remedy the problem.

Superstorm Sandy was a perfect storm for Obama. Its occurrence stripped the momentum of the Romney campaign; it also gave the President and New Jersey’s Republican Governor Chris Christie (aka Brutus) a chance to pal around as if they were lifelong friends as they walked among the destruction across the Governor’s home state.

“I cannot thank the President enough for his personal concern and compassion for our state and for the people of our state,” Christie said.

Perhaps Christie saw the writing on the wall and wanted to swing over to the winning side, the Green side. Perhaps the influence of the Green Environmental Machine has begun to influence even good Republicans. The only thing that seems certain is that the environmental movement is almost a religion with its own mantras and even high priests like Al Gore and Obama.

Robert Nisbet, one of the 20th century’s great conservative minds, wrote:

“It is entirely possible that when the history of the twentieth century is finally written, the single most important social movement of the period will be judged to be environmentalism. …  Environmentalism is now well on its way to becoming the third great wave of redemptive struggle in Western history, the first being Christianity, the second modern socialism.”

The President is part of this wave. He launched his re-election campaign in December 2011 by announcing $4 billion in energy conserving upgrades to Federal buildings throughout the country and finalizing efforts to create an ecosystem task force.

Obama has also mandated the first fuel and emissions standards for commercial vehicles and is applying those rules to vehicles built between 2014 and 2018.

The President has also committed $21 billion in taxpayer money to solar and wind energy companies. One of those companies was Solyndra, which received more than $500 million in Federal money only to default on it.

According to Canada’s CTV News, Obama’s re-election has made climate change a “hot topic” in Washington and may lead to a new carbon tax. A carbon tax would force people to pay more for using fossil fuels like coal, oil and gas, which the Greens claim is producing heat-trapping carbon dioxide and creating storms like Sandy.

As blogged on Washingtonpost.com, Sandy has put global warming back into focus for millions of Americans as well as Congress.

Global warming was also a type of wicked problem that led to gridlock and dissension in the nation’s capital, as nobody could quite formulate the link between public policy and extreme weather events.

That is, until Sandy. After being a non-factor until the last week of the presidential campaign, suddenly people want to talk about global warming.

The Post compares global warming as a crisis as great as the Federal government’s “fiscal cliff.” Really?

First, global warming — if it even exists and if it is truly manmade — is a global problem (I have more to say shortly).

Second, the fiscal crisis is all American, and it is a problem created by two Presidents and 12 years of Congress members who were negligent and would probably be found legally culpable if they were working in the private sector.

We know the Federal government is headed for bankruptcy. Social programs are grievously underfunded, defense spending is out of control and, most likely, tax revenues are going to decline. (Higher tax rates won’t mean more money to Washington; they will mean less money because the economy is most likely to implode.) But we don’t know that global warming is a certainty.

The same day The Post published its article, The Wall Street Journal ran a column signed by 16 scientists of note titled “No Need to Panic about Global Warming.”

This is part of what scientists signed off on in the column:

Perhaps the most inconvenient fact is the lack of global warming for well over 10 years now. This is known to the warming establishment, as one can see from the 2009 “Climategate” email of climate scientist Kevin Trenberth: “The fact is that we can’t account for the lack of warming at the moment and it is a travesty that we can’t.”

I got my first writing job three decades ago. All these years later, I am not sure if my publisher was teasing the day I started when he said: “Never let the truth get in the way of a good story.” The Greens have made that an axiom. Every time there is a hurricane or a superstorm like Sandy, they jump up on the highest soapbox and yell: “Global warming!”

If Obama bases new tax and energy policies on Sandy, that storm may be destructive for many years after the rains and wind ceased and power was restored.

There is one more inconvenient truth that the Greens I talk to can’t answer, even if I give them two contingencies that they can’t prove (that there is global warming and that it is manmade): How is the United States going to change this?

According to GrabStats, there are more than 2,000 coal plants in China and one new plant goes into operation every four to seven days.

In 2008, Wired Science reported that if China’s carbon usage keeps pace with its economic growth, the country’s carbon dioxide emissions will reach 8 gigatons a year by 2030. That will equal the entire world’s carbon dioxide production.

This has implications for the United States because what it means is that if Obama pursues Obamagreen the way he did Obamacare, then it will simply be a continuation of making the United States less competitive.

If Obama wins and gets his way with Green energy, do you know what is going to happen? The United States will develop state-of-the-art technologies that still won’t be as competitive as fossil fuels. Then we will sell the blueprints of those technologies to the Chinese, who will manufacture and sell them back to us, using coal to power the factories that produce these products. There is logic in that.

I don’t understand Obama. He either doesn’t follow this logic because he isn’t very smart or, more likely, he does understand it thoroughly but is still giving the green light to Green energy without regard to the cost and competitive consequences to the Nation which he has sworn to protect.

Yours in good times and bad,

–John Myers
Editor, Myers’ Energy & Gold Report

John Myers

is editor of Myers’ Energy and Gold Report. The son of C.V. Myers, the original publisher of Oilweek Magazine, John has worked with two of the world’s largest investment publishers, Phillips and Agora. He was the original editor for Outstanding Investments and has more than 20 years experience as an investment writer. John is a graduate of the University of Calgary. He has worked for Prudential Securities in Spokane, Wash., as a registered investment advisor. His office location in Calgary, Alberta, is just minutes away from the headquarters of some of the biggest players in today’s energy markets. This gives him personal access to everyone from oil CEOs to roughnecks, where he learns secrets from oil insiders he passes on to his subscribers. Plus, during his years in Spokane he cultivated a network of relationships with mining insiders in Idaho, Oregon and Washington.

Facebook Conversations

Join the Discussion:
View Comments to “First Obamacare, Now Obamagreen”

Comment Policy: We encourage an open discussion with a wide range of viewpoints, even extreme ones, but we will not tolerate racism, profanity or slanderous comments toward the author(s) or comment participants. Make your case passionately, but civilly. Please don't stoop to name calling. We use filters for spam protection. If your comment does not appear, it is likely because it violates the above policy or contains links or language typical of spam. We reserve the right to remove comments at our discretion.

Is there news related to personal liberty happening in your area? Contact us at newstips@personalliberty.com

  • http://www.facebook.com/peter.b.rutkiewicz Peter B Rutkiewicz

    Here is the Costliest Cyclones in the Atlantic. Note that the rate of storms has increased in the single decade of the new millennium:12 as compared to 12 for the FIVE decades since 1950. Doesn’t take into account the increases in tornadoes, floods in the west and Midwest followed by drought conditions this year. Change is upon us. The worse is yet to come. It is political suicide to oppose trying to reduce carbon emissions. The US is very vulnerable to the changes occurring. Disasters will vote out the opposition. Sandy voted for Obama.
    Billions Name Year
    $108.0 Hurricane Katrina[1] 2005
    $52.4‡ Hurricane Sandy[2] 2012
    $37.6 Hurricane Ike[3][4] 2008
    $29.2 Hurricane Wilma[5][6][7][8] 2005
    $26.5 Hurricane Andrew[9] 1992
    $18.6 Hurricane Charley[10][11] 2004
    $18.1 Hurricane Ivan[12][13] 2004
    $16.6 Hurricane Irene[14] 2011
    $15.2 Hurricane Agnes[15] 1972
    $14.1 Hurricane Hugo[16][17] 1989
    $10.5 Hurricane Rita[18] 2005
    $10.4 Hurricane Frances[13][16][19] 2004
    $10.2 Hurricane Gilbert[20] 1988
    $9.4 Hurricane Betsy[16][21] 1965
    $8.5 Hurricane Gustav[22] 2008
    $8.2 Hurricane Mitch[23][24][25][26][27] 1998
    $8.0 Hurricane Jeanne[13][16][28][29] 2004
    $8.0 Hurricane Camille[16] 1969
    $7.9 Hurricane Fifi[16][30] 1974
    $7.9 Hurricane Georges[29][31][32] 1998
    $6.8 Hurricane Diane[16] 1955
    $6.6 Hurricane Donna[16][33] 1960
    $6.5 Hurricane Frederic[16] 1979
    $6.4 Tropical Storm Allison[34][35][36] 2001

    • Doc Sarvis

      Ouch! Careful, lots of folks here don’t like to look at facts.

      • S.C.Murf

        Seems to me that the more growth we have in the states the more there is to destroy and the more it costs to rebuild

        up the hill
        airborne

    • George E

      Peter,

      Thank you for sharing this interesting data. Unfortunately, it doesn’t prove global warming. It’s just more anecdotal information.

      BTW, you’ll get a lot more support for global warming theory if you change the proposed solutions to voluntary rather than government imposed.

      • deerinwater

        Hmm? Rising sea levels is proof of Global Warming in itself. While most of us don’t see that as the argument before us.

      • George E

        Really? Global warming is the only reason sea levels might be rising?

      • George E

        Deer,

        Rising sea levels may be evidence (not necessarily proof) of global warming, but not “man-made global warming.”

      • GALT

        Really? What are the OTHER REASONS?

      • George E

        Galt,

        Even if it suggests global warming, it certainly doesn’t prove that man-made conditions are the cause, and let’s face it, that’s what you would like us to believe.

      • Gea

        The science proofs about anthropogenic causes of the global climate changes had been in( for the last 30 years, and are accepted by anybody who is a scientist of actuary. Actuaries are best risk analysists because thgey base calculations of their premiums on history of catastrophil events that cause their losses in payments for a damage. The only scientists who deny antropogenic climate changes are thsoe who do not work in the field and may be paidby fossil burning companies tthat do not want to decrease their market share of fossil fuels of coal and oil. it is not only warming but those nasty hurricanes, tornadoes, fires, draughts etc. which cause insurance companies rise in premiums to pay for the extra risk of those extreme weathers.

        Anybody who still denies the obvious, is a fool, who does not understand how the complex systems operate. Obama suggested solution to build large solar and wind systems is dumb, just as his complicated health care is dumb, because it only helps large corporations that stand to profit while working Americans are screwed. We need to harvest solar, wind and geothermal energy from our homes and back yards and use electric battery powered electromotor cars and thus individually become sustainable rather then waiting for government to “help” US.

        We Americans are smart enough and capable enough to become great again, rather then dysfunctional sissies waiting for government to bail us out and keeping US on the dole, while borrowing money from Chinese, Japanese and Arabs and loosing our freedom.

      • George E

        Gea,

        You suspect the motivation of studies funded by fossil fuels companies, and I suspect the motivation of studies funded by groups who have a political agenda and a desired outcome. We are smart to be skeptical both ways, I think. I’m particularly skeptical of this theory because 1) there’s still room for argument; the science is not yet settled, at least in my mind, 2) implementing government “solutions” will wreck havoc on our economy, 3) government solutions lead to less personal liberty and more government control over our lives, which I don’t like, 4) other countries, like China, won’t comply with reducing their emissions so total emission levels will not go down much, 5) global warming, if it is happening, may be a natural phenomenon rather than man-made, and 6) anything we do to control global warming will have little impact on the net result anyway. While I doubt CO2 emissions are all that harmful to our environment, I’m not opposed to countries taking voluntary steps to control it if they want. I do oppose forced compliance with anything that will definitely hurt our economy and reduce our standard of living, but may only turn over more of our money and control over our lives to the government. We’ve got to be very careful with this issue. If we get it wrong, we’ll pay dearly for many, many years.

      • GALT

        Yo, George how to use these “facts”…….to formulate what they mean…….

        12 storms over 50 years v. 12 storms over 10 years ( the last ten years )

        or 2.2 per decade v. 12 per decade………

        So what was happening once every 5 years, is now happening every year……

        This represents a 400% increase in frequency……..so just to understand your
        position……..regarding this anecdotal information…….

        What was different about the last decade that produced this increase in frequency?

        If it doesn’t mean anything statistically, what should one expect over the next decade?

        I mean if there is no trend and nothing has changed…….because this is just a blip,
        how long would it take……years with 0 storms……to statistically return to the
        previous rate of probable frequency?

      • George E

        Galt,

        But is this due to man-made causes? If we forceably reduce our emissions of CO2 in this country, will it make any real difference if China and other countries don’t reduce their emissions? Regardless, I believe implementing a cap-and-trade taxing program to reduce CO2 emissions will definitely constrain our economy substantially. This is a bad thing for our society as well, and the fact is, I’m more confident that would happen than actually reducing global warming from anything the government might do.

    • Right Brain Thinker

      Good data, Paul. And guess what, deniers? Insurance companies (who make a living by analyzing risk) have come to the conclusion that global warming is real and we need to do something about it. Global warming is threatening their little gravy train because of the huge payouts Paul has listed for us above and they are good enough capitalists to suggest that we must do things that will ease their burden and increase their profits. In the meantime, they are making noises that we can ALL expect higher premiums to give them the capital to pay claims (and of course make their profit)..

      • Gea

        Already 30 years ago the insurance companies understood that global climate change is REAL and that it is CAUSED by burning fossil fuels. WE MUST GO GREEN totally and stop burning ANY fossil fuels, and particularly using internal combustion engines, which need oil. The money that we pay to the Arabs and Iranians (and Communists) for oil often goes to finance terrorism against US.

        WE can become totally independent of oil and coal if we each harvests solar, wind and geothermal energy at locations where we use it: our homes and back yards. We can use electric car batteries to store that energy and thus do not need gasoline.

        Obamagreen is dumb, since it continues dependence on large intinstically unsafe large electric power plants which also cause ecological damage and when the weather is bad, the transmissions break down and people are left with no elevctricity for days.

        I live off the grid for the last 3 years and love it. My next step will be an electric car which I will be recharging from solar and wind energy captured on my rood. If EVERYBODY did thyi (*it can be done cheaply) then the large energy corporations that are currently burnbing fossil fuels and car industry will go out of business unless they start producting efficient electric cars, as Tesla had done with their new sexy electric car. Chinese are ahead of US both in electric cars production and photovoltaic industry.

  • Muchinippi Bill

    Earth is warming, cooling as it has for almost 5 billion years. Atlantic is currently warming with the Artic, Pacific is cooling with the Antartic. Natural Gas , oil and coal is currently where it is at, economically. I live in the corn belt and even there ethylnol isn’t economical. Build solar in Arizona but in Ohio we have coal producing 80 % of our electricity ,ECONOMICALLY. Natural gas is becoming very abundant. Wake up America and do what is the intelligent thing to do, not environmentally uneconomical. Use what we have while it is available and use wind , solar and nuke when the natural goodies are gone in about 300 years.

    • http://www.facebook.com/peter.b.rutkiewicz Peter B Rutkiewicz

      Conserve our resources and develop new sources or we may not be around. We were given DOMINION. If we screw it up, we can end ourselves. If we don’t deal with it, budget deficits won’t matter one bit. Just like it didn’t matter in WW II. Natural disasters can take down whole civilizations. History is filled with examples.

      • GALT

        “The lesson of history is……that we have learned nothing from history.”

      • George E

        Peter,

        We don’t know that we’re facing that kind of devastation with global warming. Sure, it’s possible, but the fact is declarations of that nature are only conjecture based on opinion. Let’s not go crazy because it could possibly happen. This issue is too critical to get it wrong. Let’s take our time and get it right. That’s something the politicians and environmental alarmist don’t want to give us. We just can’t let them win on that point.

        Should we conserve our air, since it’s one of our natural resources? Should we pass laws that tax people on how much air they breathe or use? Of course not. That’s ridiculous, and so is taxing other resources that we have in abundant supply to discourage people from using them. Let’s be careful how we go about this. No one knows for sure what the future holds, so anyone who says he does and wants us to stake our future on his prediction, is dangerous. Decisions like this are almost always better handled by the market where you’ve got a very large diverse group of people making bets with their own money.

      • GALT

        Yeah how stupid….an air tax……..of course not to be picky….but ALL AIR IS NOT
        EQUAL……..

    • Right Brain Thinker

      Unfortunately, we don’t have 300 years to embrace alternative energy sources. If there are any humans at all left on the planet, they will likely be living in scattered groups and at a subsistence level. The technological capabilities they may still possess will not allow them to build nuclear reactors, wind turbines, or solar arrays.

      • George E

        Right,

        How long do we have? If you can tell me that with very high confidence, then we might be able to figure out what we should do. Without that information, I’m going to assume we have more time than the environmental alarmists and politicians are telling us. I can see a political agenda associated with them pushing us into making quick decisions, and that’s something I don’t think we can afford with this issue.

  • wavesofgrain

    Wake up, folks!!!!!!!!!!!!! Follow the money trail with this “Cap and Trade” scheme. Obama was instrumental in funding this scheme from the Joyce Foundation in the early 90′s. Guess who else sat on this board? None other that William “Bill” Ayers!!!!!!!!!! Gore was worth 2 Mil in 2000., now he’s worth over 100 Mil. This is another wealth redistribution scheme, but this time, it will not be redistributed to his conies, welfare or illegals…it will go to the United Nations to use as it sees FIT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Obama, Gore, tied to Chicago carbon exchange!!!

    http://www.sodahead.com/united-states/obama-gore-tied-to-chicago-carbon-exchange/blog-97725/

    “”"Considering the information unearthed concerning Obama’s links to all of this, it is not surprising that he is now pushing the “cap-and-trade” carbon tax program, which in reality represents a war on the middle and working classes.

    Prior to the election, Obama called for drastically reducing carbon emissions by 80 per cent, a move that would inflict a new Great Depression, cost millions of jobs, and sink America to near third world status.”"”"”

    • eddie47d

      Listen to Mr Grain and his sky is falling scenario! There have been dozens of environmental rules enacted over the years and we have all benefited from them. Our air became cleaner and our water safer. That is hardly a war on the Middle Class just the opposite where our health is directly affected. Now go back to reading bogeyman stories under the covers instead of embracing the positive changes.

      • Alan

        “The sky is falling! The sky is falling!”. I’m sick of hearing it already! All this global warming nonsense is just another scam meant to scare people into giving up even more of their money and freedoms. Computer models are about as infallible as those who design them. Get real!!!

      • http://tlgeer.wordpress.com tlgeer

        You are, quite apparently, not old enough to remember the environment disasters in the 1960′s and 1970′s. Before you say anything else, you might want to do some research first.

  • Terry Bateman

    John Meyers quotes Obama saying the U.S. will be a global leader in technology and discovery and innovation and reap the good jobs and new businesses that will come
    from it. We are already the global leader in technology and innovation in discovering
    oil and gas and reaping the new jobs and businesses that come from it. If Obama
    wants to spend four billion dollars on energy conservation in government buildings,
    what’s wrong with that? Conservation and production are both needed to make U.S.
    energy independent.If Obama wants to spend twenty-one billion dollars on solar and
    wind power, what’s wrong with that? Diversification of energy sources is another aid
    in helping U.S. achieve energy independence.Meyers says during the second term Obama will take expensive steps to remedy global warming. What’s wrong with
    encouraging trucks and power plants to run on natural gas instead of gasoline
    and coal? Our increasingly abundant and cheap supplies of natural gas make
    natural gas fired power plants and natural gas fueled trucks a brilliant way to
    foster U.S. energy independence and reduce global warming. As for John Meyer’s
    opposition to carbon taxes, what’s wrong with the U.S. making a little bit of money
    encouraging a switch to natural gas from coal that will save tons of money for years
    to come?

    • Right Brain Thinker

      There’s nothing wrong with any of that, Terry. The problem is that we must cut down our reliance on fossil fuels if we hope to have any chance of arresting global warming before it overtakes us and makes any discussions of “economic impact” moot. Considering the lag times in the many mechanisms of global warming and our incomplete understanding of them, we may have already passed critical tipping points and doomed ourselves.

  • Randy G

    The only ‘Green’ obama wants is in his bank accounts.

    • eddie47d

      Then he must be a true Capitalist !

      • Alan

        No Eddie, a true “Capitalist” gives something back! Obama is a true “Opportunist” of the lowest order, always taking!

      • eddie47d

        I’m still searching Alan…….. There is one Bill Gates …but he is a Liberal.

    • http://www.facebook.com/tony.newbill1 Tony Newbill

      Randy all they are doing is following the Blue print their master Kissinger mapped out for them to follow its the NSSM200 policy they are Implementing and they are 12 years behind on their plan . Kissinger has been to all of Obama state dinners so he is still in there making sure they are following their master ……

      • eddie47d

        I could care less about Kissinger but he has not attended ALL the State Dinners as you are attempting to invoke. He did attend when President Jintao was here from China and President Mubarak. That begs the question: Why would Obama invite Mubarak if the Conservatives say he didn’t like the old Egyptian regime? Oh yes those Conservatives are playing mind games with phony assumptions again.

  • DaveH

    John says — “In 2013, it will be Obamagreen — with all the pitfalls of higher taxation, a repressed economy and greater power in the hands of Washington”.
    Unfortunately it goes beyond Obama, who is just implementing a UN resolution on the Rights of Mother Earth. The Earth has Rights? And who would represent Mother Earth? United Nations Lawyers of course.
    One thing for sure, when the UN takes over the Progressive Followers won’t have to worry about whether we elect Republicans or Democrats because the people DON’T have a vote for the United Nations Representatives. The United Nations is an organization created By the Leaders For the Leaders. The rest of us can eat cake.
    Once the UN takes full power, the elite Crony Capitalists will have finally gotten the Central Government of all Central Governments that they have desired for 100 years. And the average citizen will have no choice but to bow to those with the immense Power of that One-World Government.

    http://mises.org/daily/5217

  • http://wildeyguns.com The Christian American

    TERROR: a physical or psychological act, sometimes violent in nature, committed to gain or maintain submission. That’s the tool that Obama and his ilk use against the American people. They scare us, we submit to their edicts whether it be economically, weather, foreign relations, you name it. We listen and they tell us how high to jump. God controls the weather. We can only predict it, sometimes, when it happens. Ask the people at Noah’s time or the people in Sodom and Gommorah or Sandy’s visit to New Jersey and New York or New Orleans or Japan. It is mans duty to work within the environment God gave him, not play God like he can tell God what to do. Certainly it is not mans duty to listen to his employees as if they were some sort of gods. On every front, weather, economics, foreign relations, you see and feel the hand of evil playing a role. The simple language for happy living in the Ten Commandments and “our”, not their, Constitution has been set aside. Some new terrifying thing faces us every day and minute so we are spending our time reacting instead of acting. It’s like we’re walking naked through a den of serpents and the light is getting dimmer and dimmer. Instead of listening to them we should ignore them in the least, tar and feather them and cast out would be better. Read and believe John 3:16. It gives people the armor necessary to keep his sanity.

  • Right Brain Thinker

    This article is a compilation of the same tired and WRONG arguments that the ever-shrinking crowd of global warming-climate change deniers keeps making.

    Flashy and Galt have said it so well that I think I’ll spend my time rereading their comments rather that trying to add to them. They have both eloquently pointed out the differences in thought processes that I only generalize in the handle “Right Brain Thinker”. It’s too bad that the very nature of the “Conservative Brain” will make it hard for the folks on the wrong side of this debate to even re-examine their beliefs, never mind look at what those of us who know the truth may point out. I will perhaps point out the wrongness of some of the more egregious comments, but WILL say “ditto” to anything Flashy and Galt may say in the future—they will not steer us wrong.

    • Doc Sarvis

      Good choice.

  • Nan

    I see this as mostly another grab at control of our lives. No matter how much we try to prove the un-provable about global warming, China and India will continue to grow their industries and supposedly pollute the planet. So all our Pres is doing is stomping on our freedoms more and more.

    • eddie47d

      Haven’t you noticed that China and India don’t have the freedoms that we have? Do you want to be like them and who says there is a “freedom” to pollute or to destroy anything?

  • Chained

    We should all strive for “greener energy”. It is the way of the future. Fossil fuels are not a sustainable source and they pollute tremendously. Wouldn’t it be grand to be self sustaining and not have to pay big oil companies and power companies a bill every month. Wouldn’t you love to live with out effin govt rules and regulations and them telling how you must live. WE NEED TO GET OFF THE GRID AND GET GOVT OUT OF OUR LIVES.

    I have had it with the owners of big oil companies, big pharma, big chemical companies like Monsanto and the federal reserve banking cartel controlling our govt and our lives. Imagine all the electricity you ever need produced by the sun which can’t be regulated or taxed. Big corporations fear that and want you to be dependent on them as does govt. Imagine never again having to pay out the a$$ for gasoline to run your vehicle. Imagine LA with no smog. Imagine clear skies without chemtrails and no respiratory problems. Imagine no toxins like fluoride and undissolved prescription drugs in our water supply. I think we have reached a turning point in history when we self destruct because of greed and lust for power. We can thank oil and the industrial revolution for that.

    • Nan

      The key word in your response is “imagine”. Our world runs on fossil fuels for now. It’s a great idea to develop solar energy, but as you remember from the failed Solyndra fiasco, the truth is that solar energy is not sustainable. Perhaps natural gas would be a more realistic way to go at this point. You can’t just regulate and shut down the oil industries without an affordable alternative, otherwise, the entire planet shuts down. We’re seeing a bit of this now with Obama’s cap and trade, regulation, and crony capitalism.

      • GALT

        Is the sun going to turn off any time soon?

        Solar is cheap………it just looks expensive because you are not paying for damages
        when you use carbon based energy……….. ( you actually are paying, you just don’t
        know how………..)

        Health care costs got you down……..you ain’t seen nothing yet!
        Food a little too expensive……….you ain’t seen nothing yet!
        Then there’s that daily shower………..you ain’t seen nothing yet!

        I figure by 2020…….you will all be saying….you knew it all along…….

        Problem is……..you have already locked in at least 50 years of effects…..
        and current projections have been adjusted to the “worst case” side………

      • Right Brain Thinker

        Speaking of the way it will be in 2050, there’s a great book written about that titled “The World in 2050″. Some good news,some bad news, but apolitical and very informative. A great read.

      • DaveH

        Galt gives us the Liberal Progressive talking points — “Solar is cheap………it just looks expensive because you are not paying for damages”.
        A vague generalization which assumes we don’t have to use that same “damaging” energy to mine the materials for the solar panels and to create the panels themselves. Not to mention the horrendous eyesore of the panel arrays and the land they occupy. And the “damages” are already factored into the price of the oil due to the EPA, Court Costs, and other costs that cause the Oil Companies to price their product accordingly. In other words, the Consumers already pay for the “damages”.
        http://www.cato.org/pubs/pas/pa-280.html

        If the Solar Panels were indeed economically more efficient overall, the consumers could make their choices (whether to support solar or not) on the Free Markets, voluntarily. But Liberal Progressives only recognize Choice when it comes to killing unborn babies.
        Now I sit back and wait for Galt to make his usual Personal Attack and disjointed rebuttal.

      • DaveH

        140 acres of eyesore. That is more than 1/5th of 1 square mile:
        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=23F2ZQSaw_g

      • DaveH

        If Free Marketers had created the concept of solar panels, and somehow they were economical enough to sell to voluntary consumers, you can bet that the Liberal Progressives would have been screaming bloody murder about the eyesores that they are.
        It’s all about Power and Force, Folks. The environment is just an excuse for Liberal Progressives to take over your Life Choices.

      • GALT

        Very strange that Bush and Cheney have houses built by Al Gore……

        Hi Dave……did you say something?

      • eddie47d

        Now you are telling bald face lies Dave H.! I have never heard them say they are an eyesore even when I had panels on my roof back in the early 80′s.

      • GALT

        Yo DavidH……..here is your signer Freeman Dyson being “de-bunked”……

        http://skepticalscience.com/climate-models-intermediate.htm

      • DaveH

        Like I would care what your biased website has to say, Galt?
        For those who want more information about the Homogenic Global Warming Hoax:
        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YtevF4B4RtQ

      • GALT

        Dyson’s about the biggest name you could hope for buddy………see, this is why being able to read and comprehend WHAT you read is so important………

        Seriously…..don’t you have a hobby or something?

        Volunteer at the local…..real capitalism now workshop?

        You could start a movement……like ” If capitalism is good enough for God, Jesus and Joel Olsteen, it’s good enough for YOU!!!!!!!!”

        oops…….sorry…..I own that now……..BUT since you have been so helpful, I’ll sell it
        to you cheap???????

      • DaveH

        I talked about this last week, but I will reiterate for those people who are confident and intelligent enough to ignore the ridicule, personal attacks, and conjecture that the Liberal Progressives will throw your way.
        Water vapor is the largest component of Green House Gases — those gases which trap heat and thus are implicated in Global Warming. Water Vapor is far more prevalent than the Carbon Dioxide that Liberal Progressive Alarmists want us to fret over. So since heat creates more water vapor in the atmosphere, what would stop a continuous cycle of heat -> water vapor -> more heat -> more water vapor, etc. until the Earth became an unsurvivable hot house? Obviously there are mitigating factors at work to prevent such an event. Here is one of those mitigating factors:
        http://globalwarmingheartland.org/Article.cfm?artId=22205

        Wake up, People. Ignore the threats, ridicule, and fabricated alarmism coming from the Liberal Progressives like the Whack-Job Galt, who really just want to run your life, and think for yourselves.

      • GALT

        That you are a “willfully ignorant functional illiterate” is not a “personal attack”….
        it is a FACT…….DavidH……..a FACT……..for which YOU are the EVIDENCE ….FOR.!!!!!

        You can not be “disparaged”………there are no words available that could
        be used to accomplish that feat……..and under the circumstances, what would be
        the point anyway……..

        BTW as my secret weapon……..way to go DAVE!!!!!!!!!!

        Hell, at this rate we might actually be able to “define” a few words before we
        hurtle over the fiscal cliff.

        Got your Gourmet “gold and silver” Cook Book ready?

  • rb

    All arguments about whether global warming is really happening, man made or otherwise there is a simple fact about this administrations investments that cannot be denied. The government can’t pick winners and losers in the business community. Besides all of the other debacles you have heard about in the news there are so many others. West Michigan, with much fanfare and a Presidential visit, was the recipient of the benefits of the green technology money. Besides tax breaks locally a Korean company (yes.. a Korean company) was given more than 131 million federal taxpayer dollars to build a plant that would produce 400 new jobs making battteries for….the Chevy Volt….A little over 100 people have been hired to date. They sit around playing cards, watching tv, videos and some even have gone out into the community to work at some non-profit organizations while on the clock. What they haven’t done in two years is produce even ONE battery! This is the kind of garbage that is being shoved down our throats. This is the Obama administrations “Green Initiative” at work. If anyone can show me even ONE project this administration has successfully completed with the billions spent thus far I would be happy to hear it.

    • GALT

      Really? You don’t read very well do you?

      You do know that the state to which you refer is a republican one?

      That it is the STATE that is responsible for the “incentives”?

      You do know that a STATE is run by the STATE GOVERNMENT? ( clue! )

      Meaning of (clue!) not run by the president.

    • eddie47d

      RB: The big problem is that millions are out of work and the Conservatives keep saying that the private sector are the JOB CREATORS. If that was true then they would be CREATING those millions of jobs. Now if they want to sit on their hands while paying themselves extra bonuses then they shouldn’t be considered credible. We are tired of their excuses too!

      • http://www.facebook.com/tony.newbill1 Tony Newbill

        Hey Eddie47d how about that business owner being mandated to pay for employees entitlements while assuming all the risk in doing business thats making them sit on the fence ?? You assume that Being in Business is a guaranteed success when we see how well that worked out for Obamas Business ventures and all those that got laid off from his ventures so that makes Government a failed experiment too right along with your analogy of the private sector being a failed experiment .

  • Steve E

    It would be much cheaper if we build a golden calf and worship it instead of spending all that money worshiping the whole earth.

    • KG

      If we get to sacrifice some virgins and smoke some majic mushrooms, I’m all for it!

      • http://www.facebook.com/tony.newbill1 Tony Newbill

        Hey I bet when we heard Pelosi say we need to pass the Obamacare bill to find out what is in it it was the FREE Mushrooms she was Eluding too ???? FORWARD !!!!

      • eddie47d

        This is in answer to your comment at 9:52. I posted twice and it wouldn’t load. Businesses reap fairly large profits from doing business in this country and they should work to make this country better. They are not an island on their own and should give back for the blessings they receive. No one wants them shafted anymore than they should shaft the consumer or the environment,etc.

  • Deerinwater

    It was JP Morgan home that was first home in the world that was lighted by the electric light bulb and the contractor was, ~ Thomas Edison.

    As Thomas Edison and JP Morgan when about lighting New York City and introducing electrical lighting to the world and bring in a new era.

    Old man Rockefeller view this as a “threat” that would interfere with his kerosene business and spent thousands of dollars to sway public opinion and people away from electricity and the hazards that it offered. It was dangerous!

    This resistance to “Green” is more of a repeat of the same thing, as commerce fights for market shares through various agents. John Mayer speaks for the oil patch, attempting to appeal to your tried and true, practical side.

    • rb

      Wait…JP Morgan (a private individual) paid a private contractor to put in electric lights…Rockefeller ( a private individual) used his own money to fight it. What’s wrong with this picture when you compare it to now? Oh that’s right…the government is taking money from private citizens in order to give it away to people the government chooses in order to promote and propagate technology that isn’t cost effective. Then the government takes more money from private individuals to hire government approved contractors at inflated prices to install this technology.
      Private individuals can spend their own money any way they want. JP Morgan and Mr. Rockefeller did. The government has no money of its own. The government only has money it has (by force and threat of violence) taken from its citizens. Because it is not the government’s money in the first place (the government doesn’t have any money) the government is not entitled to spend it any way it wants too.
      That’s the true arguement here.

      • Capitalist at Birth

        In the end, who wins? The consumer.

      • GALT

        feeling like a ‘winner” are we?

      • deerinwater

        rb ask; “Wait…JP Morgan (a private individual) paid a private contractor to put in electric lights…Rockefeller ( a private individual) used his own money to fight it. What’s wrong with this picture when you compare it to now?”

        Answer; Nothing is wrong with it ~ This is market forces at work. When you compare it to now, it’s the same thing! John Mayer is a stanch pundit of the oil patch which has strong ties and connections with government due to national security interest. So clearly , there is no absence of government.

        What is it that you believe is happening today that is so different? Are you attempting to ignore the fact that government was deeply involved with the Nigeria Falls or the Hoover Dam power generation projects for the sole purpose to usher into existence new technology to serve the needs of her people?

        Here is a story of a private funded project that almost broke a good company ~ who ever was to be awarded the 1893 world fair contract was a shoe-in for the Government funded Nigeria Falls contract and a perfect example of government and private sector working hand and glove.

        “In November and December of 1887, Tesla filed for seven U.S. patents in the field of polyphase AC motors and power transmission. These comprised a complete system of generators, transformers, transmission lines, motors and lighting. So original were the ideas that they were issued without a successful challenge, and would turn out to be the most valuable patents since the telephone.

        An adventurous Pittsburgh industrialist named George Westinghouse, inventor of railroad air brakes, heard about Tesla’s invention and thought it could be the missing link in long-distance power transmission. He came to Tesla’s lab and made an offer, purchasing the patents for $60,000, which included $5,000 in cash and 150 shares of stock in the Westinghouse Corporation. He also agreed to pay royalties of $2.50 per horsepower of electrical capacity sold. With more inventions in mind, Tesla quickly spent half of his new found wealth on a new laboratory.

        With the breakthrough provided by Tesla’s patents, a full-scale industrial war erupted. At stake, in effect, was the future of industrial development in the United States, and whether Westinghouse’s alternating current or Edison’s direct current would be the chosen technology.

        It was at this time that Edison launched a propaganda war against alternating current. Westinghouse recalled:

        I remember Tom [Edison] telling them that direct current was like a river flowing peacefully to the sea, while alternating current was like a torrent rushing violently over a precipice. Imagine that! Why they even had a professor named Harold Brown who went around talking to audiences… and electrocuting dogs and old horses right on stage, to show how dangerous alternating current was.
        Meanwhile, a murderer was about to be executed in the first electric chair at New York’s Auburn State Prison. Professor Brown had succeeded in illegally purchasing a used Westinghouse generator in order to demonstrate once and for all the extreme danger of alternating current. The guinea pig was William Kemmler, a convicted ax-murderer, who died horribly on August 6, 1890, in “an awful spectacle, far worse than hanging.” The technique was later dubbed “Westinghousing.”

        In spite of the bad press, good things were happening for Westinghouse and Tesla. The Westinghouse Corporation won the bid for illuminating The Chicago World’s Fair, the first all-electric fair in history. The fair was also called the Columbian Exposition — in celebration of the 400th Anniversary of Columbus discovering America. Up against the newly formed General Electric Company (the company that had taken over the Edison Company), Westinghouse undercut GE’s million-dollar bid by half. Much of GE’s proposed expenses were tied to the amount copper wire necessary to utilize DC power. Westinghouse’s winning bid proposed a more efficient, cost-effective AC system.

        The Columbian Exposition opened on May 1, 1893. That evening, President Grover Cleveland pushed a button and a hundred thousand incandescent lamps illuminated the fairground’s neoclassical buildings. This “City of Light” was the work of Tesla, Westinghouse and twelve new thousand-horsepower AC generation units located in the Hall of Machinery. In the Great Hall of Electricity, the Tesla polyphase system of alternating current power generation and transmission was proudly displayed. For the twenty-seven million people who attended the fair, it was dramatically clear that the power of the future was AC. From that point forward more than 80 percent of all the electrical devices ordered in the United States were for alternating current.”

        So ! ~ would you please! ~ explain to us what the current administration is doing today that is so different in it attempt to encourage American interest to compete with world markets in innovation? ~ What is it that OBAMA has done, that has not been done before by past leadership?

        I would like an answer to this question, after devoting much time to answer your question.

      • GALT

        deer………you really don’t expect them to read, comprehend and respond to your question, do you? ( a rhetorical question )

      • Deerinwater

        Well, each one of them need to be able to a answer this question, or discuss something that they actually know something about, whatever that might be other then spreading horse manure.

    • Capitalist at Birth

      You are a fool. What are solar panels made from? Do you know? How many bats and birds are destroyed by the fans of wind turbines? Do you know. Do you know that the insect population will increase with the loss of bats and birds? Do you know how much wild life habitat is disturbed by the ground vibration that is created by the turbines? As, I said you are a brainwashed fool, a useful idiot to the totalitarians end.

  • Doc Sarvis

    Non-partial scientific evidence shows that global warming is occurring. That humans contribute to it is highly probable, though to what degree we influence the warming is very hard to nail down.
    ASIDE from the issue of global warming; it is obvious our reliance upon fossil fuels is drawing to a close whether we acknowledge this or not. The easy (i.e. cheaper) petroleum resources are about played out so that we are now looking at more difficult to extract deposits, smaller volume deposits (generally), and environmentally riskier methods of extration. The scarcity of cheap/easy resource is and will continue to drive up the prices of oil. Included in the price will be the geopolitical conflicts in resource laden areas of the world as well as maintaining the open transport of the resources to countries wealthy enough/powerful enough to purchase the resource. This further isolates poor countries that don’t have the resource or the power/$.
    That being said, it is critical that forward thinking countries, hopefully including ours as President Obama intends, will make SERIOUS steps in these two areas for our own security:
    1. Make strong movements to other, more sustainable energy resouces
    2. Make strides in greatly increasing efficiencies in our energy use
    President Obama’s energy policy is working on these two aspects of achieving national security. AND these are important steps whether or not one believes the scientific evidence of global warming.

  • Jonathan

    If the oil company’s didn’t go around killing people that came up with cars that get 100 miles per gal. “or better”, than the environmentalist wouldn’t have a leg to stand on with the public. People are tired of the greedy oil company’s and they’ll do what ever it takes to bring them down. If you hat the green movement so much, than do something about the oil company’s!!!!!

    • Vicki

      Greedy? Look at how much the oil costs and how much the government gets from your gallon of gas. http://money.msn.com/shopping-deals/what-makes-up-the-cost-of-gas-bankrate.aspx

    • George E

      Jonathan,

      Do you really believe every auto company in the world would turn down the opportunity to make a car that could get 100 mpg just to protect the oil companies profit? If there really is a viable design for a car that could get 100 mpg and truly be marketable, do you think the oil companies could keep it from getting to one of the auto companies? I’ve heard this conspiracy since I was in college back in the 60′s, and it wasn’t true then, and you can be assured that it’s not true today.

  • http://N/A Brent Gurtek

    Mr. Livingston & followers,

    You people oughta’ be a static display at the Wrong Side of History Musuem. Global warming IS REAL, IT’S LARGELY MAN-MADE, and IT’S A SERIOUS ISSUE!
    True, like most Americans, I don’t want my grand kids to live with a weak economy. But a clean planet is far more important than $$$$$! We breath air not quarters, drink water not dimes and eat food not dollar bills.

    All countries have to take part in reducing climate change – even the dumb commies in China will have to do what needs to be done. So let’s do our part, set the right example, and have humanity put pressure on them.

    Brent Gurtek
    Concerned Grand Father

    • http://www.facebook.com/tony.newbill1 Tony Newbill

      Brent Gurtek most man made is not true in the context that you claim , because what the technocratic society really means when they say Global Warming is man made means they Think there are To many People Living on the Planet and that Depopulation is needed Now to reduce the Risk of Further Global Warming .

    • Warrior

      Brent, since this phenomenum is man-made it would appear the easiest solution would be to get rid of the “man” part of the equation. Anyone for “socialized” medicine and “eugenics’? “Forward”!

    • Bill

      You sir, are brainwashed

    • http://www.facebook.com/tony.newbill1 Tony Newbill

      Brent Gurtek this activity on the Sun is causing the Earth to Heat us … but no one talks about this Natural Event because it gives no reason to be extreme is Talking peoples Independent wealth creation and activity away for the idea of it being for the Greater good like the Green Movement is all about to stop worldwide population growth by Economic Oppression .
      If we get a Direct Hit here during the Middle of and Peak of the Suns 11 year solar cycle in 2013 Human Global Warming will be the LAST Thing we will worry about !!!! http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/11/18/giant-sun-eruption-nasa-video_n_2154480.html

      • Sirian

        Tony Newbill,
        Good point, very seldom are solar cycles ever brought up as a primary cause of planetary climate changes. Agreed, if we happen to be hit with an enormous CME it will be funny in it’s own right what the “Global Warming” patrons will be whining about then. . . uh, nevermind. :)

      • GALT

        Of course it’s the SUN……says so RIGHT HERE

        http://www.skepticalscience.com/solar-activity-sunspots-global-warming.htm

      • Sirian

        Galt – Tony,
        Here’s another good source to keep an eye on solar activity. You can get a daily activity report and various other information. There are also links provided to many good sources that are observing our star.
        http://www.spaceweather.com

      • http://www.facebook.com/tony.newbill1 Tony Newbill

        Sirian Thanks !!!!

      • GALT

        DUCK!!!!!!!!!

        or would that be………..

        Duck, duck……….xxxxx!

        “Lead futures spike….film at……..SSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS

    • rb

      Has anyone seen the new Ice Age they predicted 40 years ago lately/\?

    • Right Brain Thinker

      Well said, Brent. I too am a concerned grandfather and share your concerns. Did you know that the “dumb commies” are using the best pollution control technology available in their coal plants? They are trying to keep their air clean. Unlike in the US, where the monied interests fight to keep old and decrepit plants on line without updating the pollution controls (and want to eliminate the EPA as well). The Chinese have enormous pressures to generate electricity on them because of their large population, but ARE trying harder than we are.

      To Tony N

      ALL man made is not true in the context that Brent claims, and it’s provable to anyone who accepts science. Depopulation will occur if we don’t address Anthropogenic Global Warming .

      To Warrior
      Oh-so-clever. See above and be aware that “getting rid of the “man” part of the equation” is exactly what will happen if things go too far. The laws that govern the universe will see to that..

      Bill says:
      “You sir, are brainwashed” I will say the old and tired “Look in the mirror” to that.

      To Tony N
      Yes, the activities of the Sun have some bearing on the issue but you are oversimplifying here (and seizing on the “bad” science of the deniers if you use it to deny that AGW is taking place).

    • Right Brain Thinker

      Typo alert. In my reply to Tony, I inserted a “not” that confuses things. What i was trying to say was that ALL man made warming IS true in the context of Brent’s remarks and that Tony was in error.

      • http://www.facebook.com/tony.newbill1 Tony Newbill

        Right Brain Stinker you are the one thats wrong , says Ted Turner and Paul Ehrlich adviser to Obama

      • eddie47d

        RBT is correct Tony. Pollution,environmental damages,less clean water,deforestation will eventually lead to the demise of human populations just as it has done to animal and ocean species. It won’t be in our lifetime yet I believe it will be a coming attraction.

  • nickkin

    Work in progress in the good ole’ USA. obummer constructing giant dome over the country to control what we breath because of china and other countries that are polluting the air. This is the big push of progressives. More control of the trolls that voted him in. Unfortunately for those few that wanted obozo out, we will keep working to pay for the handouts under the dome.

    • eddie47d

      That is why Nickkin will never get it because he is too busy being a smart alick instead of being relevant. Let China die its own slow polluting death for that doesn’t mean we have to!

  • Bill

    Of course Obama is pushing the green issue, because there is a lot of money to be made. Obama, the activist who has never worked a day in his life is now on his way to become a multi millionaire through the global warming movement.

    They have done a great job of brainwashing people as to the global warming movement. In our local paper they have a section called “this day in history”. I read that in 1925 a drought broke that had been going on for 40 years. That means it started in the 1880′s. This is how the earth goes, things go in cycles.

    They have you where they want when you blame any weather changes on man made global warming. Now they can start milking you.

    Remember, if any thing changes in the weather, it is global warming. And you dirty, filthy, polluting capitalists must pay.

    • eddie47d

      Considering that those “dirty,filthy capitalists” (your words) created the pollution or environmental damages don’t you think its their responsibility to clean up after themselves. To bear the greater burden instead of the taxpayer? Are you concerned that those “capitalist” made millions and billions harming the earth but get a free pass in doing it again?

    • Kinetic1

      President Obama spent a year in New York as a researcher with Business International Group, a global business consulting firm. He also spent several years as an attorney with the civil rights law firm of Miner, Barnhill and Galland. Last time I checked, this constitutes “work”.

    • http://tlgeer.wordpress.com tlgeer

      “Obama, the activist who has never worked a day”

      Except for being a Civil Rights attorney, President of an Educational board, taught Constitutional Law for 12 years, a community organizer (which is not an easy job).

  • Greg

    The best we all can do is beg our elected officials of the Republican states, to sustain from the Electoral College. If the Republican states hold their votes in the Electoral College, they would not have forum to vote Obambe in! Congress would then have the right to choose the next president. Everyone call your Republican Congressman. It’s the 12th Amendment!
    Act fast—the College votes on Dec 17th!

  • Paul Wells

    All this talk of cap and trade and taxing polluters is laughable when our heathen neighbors in the far east chunk out enough CO2 emissions to easily make up for any scale back we might do. Just one more brick in the repression wall. I’ve read many articles on global warming and cap and trade, and believe me, there are (economic) winners and losers. Once again, the fox is licking his chops at impending regulations that will expose all those chickens just ripe for the taking!

  • Jeremy Leochner

    First of all I question Mr. Myers for taking the President to task for Hurricane Sandy. Hurricane Sandy was a terrible tragedy and yet I still am perplexed that Mr. Myers can paint it as convenient for Obama and Governor Christie. Governor Christie was expressing appreciation for Obama doing what a President is supposed to do in times of crisis. I find it insulting to the President and the victims to speak about the tragedy in that way.

    Second is the issue of environmentalism. I am sure Mr. Myers expects me to get on a soap box so I will try not to. The issue of helping the environment in a way that is detrimental to the economy is a serious one. We cannot drive the economy into the ground in order to invest in untested technology. But I will point out the environmental argument or rather the argument on global warming since that is a principal issue has a sound basis.

    The first is the green house effect. I am sure we all remember from science class but for the sake of argument. The Green House effect is the reason you cannot stay inside a car with the windows up on a hot day without turning on the AC. I am not a scientist so I cannot go in depth into the process behind it. The best I can offer is this site which goes more in depth to the precise science behind the effect itself-http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/thermo/grnhse.html#c5

    The reason this is important is that green house gases, of which carbon dioxide is a major component-http://epa.gov/climatechange/ghgemissions/gases.html, propel and worsen the Green House Effect. The Green House Effect is not nor was it ever a conspiracy by people like Al Gore to make money or to gain political power. The Green House Effect is real. If you do not believe me sit in your car on a hot day and compare what it feels like with the windows up and when they are down, but DO NOT KEEP THE WINDOWS UP FOR VERY LONG IT IS A HEALTH HAZARD IF YOU DO. The point is the thing that fuels global warming is the Green House Effect and the Green House Effect is powered by Green House gases. That is the principal reason why people support measures to limit carbon emissions and lessen the burning of fossil fuels.

    The second basis of the the Global Warming argument is practicality. Fossil Fuels are a finite resource and will eventually run out. How long that will take I do not know but I can imagine it wont happen for quite a while. However considering the amount of fuel we use in this country I feel it is better to be safe then sorry. That is why I am in support of investing in alternative fuels like Wind and Solar power. Now as Solyndra showed the President is not always the best judge when it comes to picking which companies or technologies to invest in. Though I would point out that the program that included giving funding to Solyndra also gave funding to 62 other companies. Of the 63 companies, including Solyndra, that money was given too only 5 have gone bankrupt. The rest are still in business. That is a failure rate of less than 8%-http://money.cnn.com/2012/10/22/news/economy/obama-energy-bankruptcies/index.html

    So the government investing in green energy is not a doomed venture. However it is a valid point that perhaps the Federal Government should not be making such decisions. I can respect and agree with that. I would definitely encourage and support state and even local governments investing in alternative energy if they make room for it in the budget. All that matters to me is for us to get off fossil fuels as soon as we can. It will help protect the environment which will make the soap box environmentalists happy and it will help America to achieve energy independence which will make the economists and all Americans happy. And it can help America regain its glory as a pioneering nation in the field of science and technology. We can be the first nation to get off fossil fuels and become the provider of these new technologies to the world. That could perhaps bring back manufacturing for our country and help our economy. Plus it would help average Americans feel more confident since they will not have to worry so much about the pinch at the pump. Sorry I got a little soap box preachy there. At any rate no one is trying to force anything down any ones throats. The environment and The Green House Effect and its potential consequences are serious issues that need to be discussed. This is not some partisan issue where one side is the bad guy and the other the good. Both sides have legitimate points to make and we need to hear them. We need to get off foreign oil as soon as possible. Our dependence on it weakens us and prevents us from having the strongest economy we can. And we need to care for the environment so our children and grandchildren and great grandchildren can continue to enjoy this planet and be able to use its resources. So we need to find a way to balance caring for the environment with caring for the economy. How to do that I do not know. But perhaps investing in green is the way to go. At the very least its a step in the right direction.

    • Warrior

      And maybe you and “al” will be the first examples of the new american cave dwellers. Although, somehow I doubt it. Just like all those “rich” people screaming for “higher taxes” but seem to resist voluntarily giving up their valuables. Laughable to say the least.

      • eddie47d

        How are they resisting when they know they will also be affected? Not all are selfish and clueless to the plight of our nation. The upper class takers can’t keep absconding with the loot and expecting this country to survive either.

      • Jeremy Leochner

        I hope to be very wealthy some day. If that happens I will not mind paying slightly higher taxes. I am not saying we need to start living in caves. All I am saying is we need to do better for the environment and our economy then just continuing to burn fossil fuels like theres no tomorrow.

      • Vicki

        Jeremy Leochner says:
        “I hope to be very wealthy some day. If that happens I will not mind paying slightly higher taxes.”

        Good. So what do you consider slightly higher? 1% more than (who, Middle income, poor), Taxes based on wealth? Income? It is easy to play with non existent numbers. How about a real number.

      • George E

        You can be pretty sure if the government starts out taxing “a little”, it won’t take them too long before they’ll be taxing “a lot”. All they need is a starting point. They will take it from there.

      • Jeremy Leochner

        Perhaps I should have been specific. For me the Bush Tax Cuts on the highest income earners should expire. That would raise the marginal tax rate on those making more than 250,000 a year by about 5%. That seems fair. But since I am hoping in the future to be wealthy I cannot speak for myself. So I am not being fair. The best I can offer is I support spending cuts and would love for policy experts to offer some. I will decide which I support and vote accordingly. And in the mean time I believe the investment in green technology will be beneficial to all-Poor, Middle and Upper Class.

      • eddie47d

        Just because the wealthy create jobs doesn’t mean their conscience stops at the bank for their nightly deposit. The whole system is rotting from the top down and the selfish rich will eventually come tumbling down. The Middle Class can’t be the only ones holding up America.

      • Vicki

        George E says:
        “You can be pretty sure if the government starts out taxing “a little”, it won’t take them too long before they’ll be taxing “a lot”.”

        Evidence in our very own income tax code.
        initial rates 1%-7% so the most wealthy only had to pay 7%
        2011 rates 10%-35% so the most wealthy have to pay 5 TIMES what they did in 1913
        the poorest have to pay 10 TIMES what they did in 1913.

        Peak rates were MUCH higher.
        http://taxfoundation.org/article/us-federal-individual-income-tax-rates-history-1913-2011-nominal-and-inflation-adjusted-brackets

      • Vicki

        eddie47d says:
        “Just because the wealthy create jobs doesn’t mean their conscience stops at the bank for their nightly deposit. The whole system is rotting from the top down and the selfish rich will eventually come tumbling down.”

        The selfish rich that you call them can’t hold a candle to the wealth stealing ability of the government. Currently spending 40% of GDP they are the largest holder of money outside the federal reserve who can print federal reserve notes at their pleasure.
        http://www.usgovernmentspending.com/us_20th_century_chart.html

    • Bill

      Jeremy,
      I know you mean well but you used a term “the government investing in green technology”. If we want green technolgy implemented in our daily lives, it will not be done through government mandate which encourages graft, corruption and inefficiencies. It has to be accomplished through the private sector and the profit motive.

      It will happen incrementally through one entrepenuer after the other making one aspect of one product more efficient. The sad reality is that the governmental sponsered green movement is is there to create more power, taxation and make a select few rich. In it’s present form, it will not implement green technology in our lives.

      I invest in green technolgy companies and through the regulations imposed by our “green movement”, it is now too expensive to manufacture solar panels in the US. Through the government helping their industries, China now is becoming the largest solar panel manufacture in the world, and they can make them cheaper than we can.

      We are making it more difficult to operate a business in the private sector, which is the real implementor of green technology.

      • eddie47d

        Graft corruption and greed became the hallmark of Wall Street and Corporate America just a few years ago. Wherever they went destruction of our economy flowed so it goes both ways Bill and private enterprise lead the charge because they knew they could get away with it. When it comes to solar panels lay the blame on Congress which dilly dallied around for years when we were the number one manufacturer in the world and had the best technology too! The Chinese government within one year poured billions into their businesses including the manufacture of solar panels. That is why they won and we lost and our Congress let it happen. That positive input from the Chinese government helped create thousands of jobs and grew their economy …but in China.

      • Jeremy Leochner

        I can respect that Bill. My issue is I believe that oil companies and other fossil fuel companies will do everything in their power to stop the development of alternative fuels because that would hurt their profits. My concern is any attempt by the private sector will be at risk. I am not saying government is above risk of graft and corruption, far from it. I guess I place more trust in government then the private sector. But I agree that regulations need to be managed. And I would never support so many regulations that it weakens the private sectors ability to manufacture solar panels and other new green technologies. If you can provide some specific examples of regulations I can decide for myself whether or not I support them. Then we can start talking about which ones to get rid of or amend.

      • Kinetic1

        eddie47d,
        Good points here. It’s easy to point to greed and corruption in government, but those issues are certainly not limited to the Government. In fact, it’s often a case of greedy corporations taking advantage of Government that is the problem.

      • Vicki

        Kinetic1 says:
        “It’s easy to point to greed and corruption in government, but those issues are certainly not limited to the Government. In fact, it’s often a case of greedy corporations taking advantage of Government that is the problem”

        So knowing that some corporations will use the power of government to corrupt the free market you still want government to have more power? Why?

      • Jeremy Leochner

        What matters is who is in running the government and how. The size is not as important as what is done with it. That government is best which governs best.

      • eddie47d

        Vickie doesn’t care how the Corporations bribe the government. They don’t pay lobbyists to grovel but to be pit bulls.

      • Vicki

        Jeremy Leochner says:
        “What matters is who is in running the government and how.”

        Something that Jeremy and I can agree on. Since government is a subset of people hired to do the job of governing, it matters a great deal that we hire only honest, moral people. Ones who know what their oath of office means. Ones who know what the Constitution says and means. Failure to do so gets us what we have now.

        Jeremy Leochner: “The size is not as important as what is done with it.”

        Size DOES matter. Bigger government is just like bigger fire. Harder to control. (George W most certainly had it right with his comment about government being force.)

        Jeremy Leochner: “That government is best which governs best.”

        Useless truism. Much like saying Jeremy is honest because he is honest.
        The correct sound bite is “That government is best which governs LEAST” I.E. Small Government.
        (http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Where_is_the_quote_That_Government_is_best_which_governs_least“)

    • Bcorp

      Humans heal the Earth. My gosh, at one time, according to science, and there is plenty of evidence still today, the earth was spewing molten rocks and CO2 by the mega, mega tons by the hour. Did the Earth die? Don’t think so cause we have humans posting on this post. All of that bad, bad CO2 ushered in what? Yep, life, first plants, then animals. One can look at an increase of CO2 as a positive in that it enables more and faster plant growth. That is a fact cause plant growers have been known to add CO2 to their hot house plants. More plants, more food, more O2. The circle of life.

      • http://www.facebook.com/tony.newbill1 Tony Newbill

        Bcorp … SHHHHHH, you are going to Piss off the Depopulationalists and that will Stampede my cattle before its time !!!!!

      • eddie47d

        More pollution /CO2 increases more volital weather changes which makes some areas less inhabitable. I bet those folks in Rockaway Beach NY will rebuild and think it will never happen again. If they do that will cost us all in cleanup costs and insurance premiums. Look at the increased tornado volatility in Alabama and other places. We can’t run or hide but it will happen again and again. The same thing centuries ago when most disturbances were natural occurring such as volcano’s where thousands died. Some survivors left the area but eventually a few returned thinking it will never happen again. I don’t know if that is the cycle of life or the cycle of ignorance to put yourself in harms way. Beyond the severity of these newest storms there are big changes that most don’t see. With increased pollution there is a much faster increase in the acidification of our oceans and waterways. This is man made and troublesome. More acidification means more dead zones and less oxygen in the oceans and less oxygen means less coral and less fish species. Waters are warming which also changes the lifespan of coral which is where smaller fish live. If the coral goes so does those fish which means less food for the larger fish which we eat. There is a cycle of life that is being decimated without our even seeing it,

      • Jeremy Leochner

        The only problem Bcorp is mankind was not around when that happened and we have no real clue how we would survive if such a thing happened again.

    • DaveR

      I anticipate that Germany will be the first major industrialized nation to effect that change from dependence on fossil and nuclear fuels to solar and wind. They recently committed to both “green energy” forms as they decided to shutdown and withdraw from nuclear and to prohibit modern drilling and hydraulic fracturing of shale formations underlying Germany to tap into their own natural gas resources.

    • George E

      Jeremy,

      I appreciate your attempt to be fair and objective in your post. In the spirit of trying to do the same, let me make a couple observations.

      The green house effect is proven science. It does happen. However, as it relates to the environment, it may not happen as efficiently as warming the interior of your car in the summer. Greenhouse gases, of which CO2 comprises only about 3%….most of the rest being H2O, may not reflect heat back onto the earth as well as the steel top on your car. Some of this heat escapes from the atmosphere. We don’t really know how much escapes, so we really don’t know how much is reflected back on the earth.

      CO2 is absorbed from the atmosphere by plants, which in turn exhale O2 back into the environment. I don’t think we really know how much CO2 is absorbed because there are several variables which can/do change, like the amount that is absorbed in the ocean, for instance. At any rate, the amount of CO2 that is absorbed is huge, we just don’t know how much that is.

      The government should invest in alternative energy basic research because private companies can’t invest large sums doing basic research on their own. The outcome is too risky for them. However, the government should NOT invest in commercializing products, including alternative energy, bringing them to the market. That should be left to private companies when/if they feel they can make a profit doing so. This is the line that government should not cross, and Obama simply hasn’t adhered to it. So, the issue is not how much money we spend on basic research for alternative energy, but rather the amount of money we spend pushing these products into the market………when the market may not be ready for them.

      We are not about to run out of fossil fuels anytime in the foreseeable future. Technology advances in the past 20 years have made it possible to recover amazing amounts of natural gas, and now crude oil, and these increased supplies are driving down prices beyond what we might have imagined a few decades ago. America is on a path to become energy “independent” again within the next 10 years unless our government takes steps to further constrain this development…………like imposing a carbon tax or significantly raising taxes on these commodities, and/or slowing drilling for reasons like “saving lizards that no one has seen.” If nothing else changes and we continue down the path we’re currently on, even with some government interference, America will be exporting fossil fuels, especially liquefied natural gas, to other countries within the next 3-4 years. This is because natural gas costs about $2/thousand cu feet here but as much as $17/thousand cu feet in other countries. This trend is encouraging many power companies to switch from coal to natural gas in this country, and will also likely encourage many energy intensive manufacturing companies to relocate factories back in this country to take advantage of these lower energy costs. This will be good for jobs and our economy as well as the environment which will benefit from a cleaner emission. This will happen unless the government gets in the way more than it already is.

      As you say, we need to balance the benefits we get from a strong economy with the costs of allowing our environment to deteriorate. I think natural gas is the answer for our time. It will allow us to do both, something we could only dream about 20 years ago when it did seem apparent that we had already reached “peak oil” and energy costs were only going to skyrocket in the future. Today, we see that just isn’t the case.

      • Jeremy Leochner

        I can respect those points George. It is a fair point that the planet earth has a ever so slightly different heating mechanism then a car on a hot summers day. In all honest I did not realize carbon made up so little. Thank you for telling me. I guess for me its just the issue that as you said we do not necessarily know how much heat escapes and how much gets reflected back out. I guess I have watched An Inconvenient Truth so much its made me worry a little more then I should. I have just always been an er on the side of caution kind of guy. And since its the planet I just want to be careful how much green house gases we pump up there.

        I was going to say on the subject of plants and their absorption of carbon. I am going to get on my soap box really quick and say that with deforestation and other pollutions going on I worry about the state of our planets plant life and I worry that if we do not regulate pollution it could endanger our planets ability to absorb the gases.

        As for government and investing I agree with you on them not getting too involved in marketing. My only concern is when you spoke about “when the market may not be ready for them.” My concern is that the market is so tied to fossil fuels that any private sector attempt to market alternatives will be crushed under an avalanche of competition from big oil and big coal. Basically my worry is the market may not be “ready” for green technology for quite a while. I know you pointed out that we will not run out of fossil fuels for quite a while. But as you also pointed out new technologies for finding and using fossil fuels ever more quickly are being developed. The supply cannot last forever and my concern is that the big fossil fuel companies that essentially run the energy market will be unwilling or unable to accept new competition from green technology until the fossil fuels have almost run out and by then it will too late. It won’t mean that we will not have the technology to convert to alternative energy but by then other countries will have developed and adopted the technology and surpassed us.

        In regards to natural gas I do agree its a good alternative. My only issue is the manner of obtaining it. I have often heard of hydrofracking and how it is the primary way natural gas is found and obtained. However I have also heard of the potential dangers it poses to both the environment and to people living near where the hydrofracking takes place. I could be wrong and if there is a safer way to obtain natural gas then I am all for it.

        I apologize for seeming so pessimistic George. You make some valid points and I agree too much government is just as bad as not enough. I would hate good intentions to hurt us. I think alternative technology is the way to go and however best it can be funded and produced and distributed in mass amounts I will support.

      • George E

        Jeremy,

        Thanks for the thoughtful response.

        Just to emphasize, we want/need a clean environment and a healthy economy. We will probably never have one without the other. If we don’t have a healthy economy we won’t have the resources to clean the environment. So, the real challenge is to find the optimal amount of each to strive for. Really, if you take CO2 and global warming out of the discussion, our air and water are cleaner now than they’ve been in our lifetime…………and I’m pretty old……ha.

        If we don’t allow government to “favor” one energy industry over another, “big” oil/coal will not be able to keep you and me from buying whatever energy we choose. If they’re smart, they will get on board to produce and sell the form of energy that is most economical and that the market prefers. In any case, if we invest in R&D to continue the development of alternative fuels as well as clean fossil fuels, and offer those free of charge to private industry, we should be in a good position to take advantage of the most economical form of energy as the market changes without trying to control the market or risking too much public money in the process.

        Estimates I’ve seen recently suggest we’ve got hundreds of years of supply right here in America of natural gas and crude oil, so by the time it is used up, there should be economical alternative energy sources developed. So, I’m just saying we shouldn’t force the use of wind and solar right now because we’re afraid that we’ll run out of fossil fuels. It just ain’t going to happen. Anyone who tells you differently is living in the past, not the present.

        So far as I’m aware all of the fears over fracturing are supposition, not reality. There has not been any actual incidents reported yet where fracturing for natural gas polluted the drinking water supply. I’m suspicious that folks pushing that point of view really don’t want to produce cheap natural gas because they want to do away with fossil fuels altogether. If that’s true, they are pushing a political agenda rather than an economic one, which is what I’m most interested in.

        Take care.

      • Vicki

        Here is more info for Jeremy on the amount of CO2 and it’s greenhouse effect.

        http://www.geocraft.com/WVFossils/greenhouse_data.html

  • Harold Olsen

    We want our children to live in an America that isn’t burdened by debt…
    ___________________________________________________________

    Then why is this scumbag outspending all other presidents combined. He has increased the nation’s debt so much that our great grandchildren will be paying for it.

    • Jeremy Leochner

      Here is what Politifact has to say regarding the assertion that Obama has been outspending all other presidents combined.-http://www.politifact.com/new-jersey/statements/2012/may/04/chain-email/obama-has-added-more-national-debt-previous-
      43-pre/

      Also here is an interesting article describing how our debt got this high.-http://abcnews.go.com/Business/national-debt/story?id=17159803#

    • GALT

      Poof….Harold, look no debt! Just like magic…..all gone, bye bye……..

      But you should really think about what you just said……..in fact I’ll quote you.

      We want our children to live……..

      You should have stopped there……..

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kgdZX4PiFJk&feature=plcp

      • GALT
      • GALT

        Sorry, Harold………That wasn’t you, huh?

        That was you quoting your president…….and me quoting you….quoting your president….

        Kinda balances things out…….

      • eddie47d

        Thanks Galt! Its unfortunate that situations are happening right in from of our faces yet they refuse to see and even deny it is happening. Such as increased calving of ice in the Antarctica or the acidification of the oceans. This goes beyond the glaciers melting and more severe storms.

      • GALT

        magical thinking………btw look what I found………actually reading this could be very useful….in certain situations……..and extremely ironic.

        http://mises.org/journals/scholar/essay_commerce_cantillon.pdf

      • Average Joe

        Sandy = HAARP

        http://www.bing.com/search?q=HAARP&form=MSNH14&pq=haarp&sc=8-5&sp=-1&qs=n&sk=

        http://www.bing.com/search?q=haarp+conspiracy&qs=SS&form=QBRE&pq=haarp&sc=8-5&sp=1&sk=

        Unlike you, I will let you see multiple links and not just one silly ( yes , silly) link to people giving thier opinions about man made global warming…Not much of a debate when everyone in the show is in agreement………There are just as many who would disagree with “thier” findings….but we didn’t hear that..huh?

        Clmate change? Yes, it happens four times a year…has done so for millions of years. Sometimes it’s been hotter and sometimes it’s been colder. Many things contribute to those climate changes, Our axis, our rotation around the sun (sometimes we are closer to the sun than other times), the suns activities ( and probably about a billion other comic factors). All of these things contribute to climate change…..but to belive that man has caused the majority of climate change is simply ludicris. Maybe instead of whining about using fuel (gas, electric or otherwise) we should stop cutting down wide swaths of forrestaion and planting more trees to remove the Co2? That would certainly be a simpler solution to your “imagined” problem. Recycling?…I can get behind that. However, allowing the government to “ration” energy is not in the best interest of the people….it is in the best interests of the government and the corporation who profit from such araingments.

        AJ

    • KG

      Most of the money being spent is to offset the “Misspending” of the previous decade. Bush did say he was going to rebuild schools and bridges, he just wasn’t talking about THIS country.

      I remember all of the homeless vets after Vietnam. It makes me sad to think we may have to go through another generation of homeless vets. Unless we get the Middle class back. And that’s only gonna happen when Unions are strong again.

      Both sets of my Grandparents lived in public housing after WW2. However, because they were white, they were able to get good paying Union jobs. And since they were white, they were able to buy houses in the newer neighborhoods. So, ultimately, Roosevelt’s ‘New Deal” paid off with a generation of people earning more money than ever. That’s how this thing needs to go.

      • GALT

        This world is for rugged, self reliant, liberty loving producers ( of something, but mostly
        horse pucky ) and one of these days, one of THEM may actually PRODUCE something
        useful…………instead of just talking about it.

        Meanwhile………………… we have two choices………evolve or perish.

        This is a species problem ( homo sapiens sapiens ) which is ruled by it’s biology and a “brain” that is stuck in 50,000 B.C.E.

        With the advent of agriculture, we have been on a path to self extinction, whose final chapter began with the discovery of ( stored carbon based energy ) and is now rapidly asserting its effects which are overwhelming the illusion of the temporary benefits that resulted from it.

        These benefits did not arise from any altruistic motivations, for this aspect of eusocial behavior in humans seems to be restricted to reproductive genetics regarding lineage, and not from any general tendencies toward pragmatic co-operative behavior among species members, who are tribal in nature and still maintain the dominant hierarchical model which has been with us for 195,000 years.

        Unfortunately, because our empirical understanding has been fairly recent regarding the REALITY which defines our existence, we are also governed by the “mythologies” we have created to explain our rather peculiar differences from other species, so that we are now faced with a complete breakdown of almost all of our previously held “beliefs” regarding every aspect of our rather arrogant claim to “superiority” over others of our own kind, and every other form of life.

        This willfull ignorance persists and is clearly evidenced, each and everyday for all to see, in every venue……….and because we are ruled by our biology, our behavior and our perceptions are locked into and “us” ( small subset ) vs. “them” ( very large subset ) conditioned response loop, which short circuits and overwhelms any possibility of “logical reasoned intellect” being able to overcome the “mythologies” which still govern our lives and will lead us to the first instance of “self imposed extinction” since complex life arose on this planet.

        We have no choice but to adapt to this reality or succumb to it, and weno longer have the luxury of waiting for the willfully ignorant to die and be replaced by those capable of acknowledging what all the evidence has made abundantly clear. ( some assembly required )

        For those who are capable of comprehending what has been written here and seek further knowledge regarding the biological conditioning we have been unable to transcend or escape from……..I recommend the following reading as the most efficient and rapid assimilation of the relevant information so that one may proceed to other “mythologies” which require disposition and for which this information is a fundamental requirement.

        Life Ascending: Nick Lane

        The Social Conquest of Earth: E.O. Wilson

        The Folly of Fools: The Logic of Deceit
        and Self-Deception in Human Life: Robert Trivers

        A Brief History of Thought: Luc Ferry

        Guns, Germs and Steel: Jarod Diamond
        also: Collapse, and The Third Chimpanzee

        In order to understand where you are going it is sometimes useful
        to know where you have been.

        ” To conquer, first DIVIDE!!!! ” ( and then HANG, separately. )

      • S.C.Murf

        kg you really are a fool aren’t you. I want you to go and ask the union for the bakers at Hostess how strong they feel, 18,500 ask all of them

        up the hill
        airborne

      • KG

        Umm… Murf – if you actually read the news instead of watching FOX, you would have known that the CEO of Hostess got a 17 million dollar raise even though the company was claiming a loss. And then they had the nerve to “go out of business” when the union struck. How many do-nuts would you have to sell to make one million dollars? This thing ain’t over.

      • Vicki

        KG says:
        “if you actually read the news instead of watching FOX, you would have known that the CEO of Hostess got a 17 million dollar raise even though the company was claiming a loss.” And then they had the nerve to “go out of business” when the union struck. How many do-nuts would you have to sell to make one million dollars?

        If YOU actually read the news even on a liberal leaning site like snopes(dot)com you would have known that the top 4 executives actually agreed to take only $1 per YEAR until after the bankruptcy is resolved. Did any of the Union Bosses or workers volunteer to do that?

        http://www.snopes.com/politics/business/hostess.asp

        KG: “This thing ain’t over.”

        http://dealbook.nytimes.com/2012/11/20/hostess-brands-says-it-fails-to-reach-labor-deal-in-mediation/

        Looking pretty dead. Planning to kick a dead horse are you?

      • http://tlgeer.wordpress.com tlgeer

        “liberal leaning site like snopes(dot)com”

        Where, exactly, did you get the idea that snopes. com is liberal leaning?

      • eddie47d

        The executives at hostess wanted $3 million so who cares if they will take 1 temporary dollar while waiting for the cash cow to kick in. They are still greedy misguided crooks.

      • GALT

        yeah, that’s really cool……and such a sacrifice…….struggling by on 17 million till the strike ends……Vicki, you do know that “workers on strike” don’t receive paychecks……..?

      • Vicki

        GALT says:
        “yeah, that’s really cool……and such a sacrifice…….struggling by on 17 million till the strike ends”

        Since they turned down the money they are using money they already earned. You don’t like it then YOU buy the company, lay off the executives and YOU deal with the unions.

        GALT: “Vicki, you do know that “workers on strike” don’t receive paychecks……..?”

        From the company as well they shouldn’t No work No pay. For the striking union that is now a permanent condition till they find work elsewhere. Regrettably the union that actually bothered to look at the company books and saw the condition and did make a deal, they too will go without paychecks.

        http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/11/16/hostess-liquidation-teamsters-bakers-union_n_2145851.html

      • GALT

        Nah……I don’t want the company…..if and when I get a “craving” there is always
        Lil Debbie’s…….or god forbid……..actual baking products…………and cook books…..

        You know…….there’s nothing wrong with this economy….that a 50% pay increase
        and a 20 hour work week wouldn’t cure……..make that a 24 hour work week…..

        increase for non-government jobs only………..

      • George E

        That would be great so long as you’ve got an economy that can support these kinds of benefits.

  • Kinetic1

    America, or at least some states in the U.S. have some of the toughest pollution standards and the toughest safety standards in the world. As a result the air in Los Angeles is significantly cleaner than it was in the 80s, waterways are cleaner and workers are safer. These improvements have come at a price, including higher production costs. As a result many American companies have moved production and assembly across the border, sacrificing American workers. Many Republicans have been quick to claim that the costs are too high and our standards are too strict, resulting in weakening of many laws during the Bush years. I assume you would agree, Mr. Myers?

    “How is the United States going to change this?… there are more than 2,000 coal plants in China …. if China’s carbon usage … will equal the entire world’s carbon dioxide production. ….. if Obama pursues Obamagreen the way he did Obamacare, then it will simply be a continuation of making the United States less competitive.”

    Let me get this straight; since we currently have no control over China’s carbon output we may as well assume that they will continue to spew pollution in favor of profits. Since this will create an even larger gap between our cost of production and theirs, we should just ignore our own output and hope for the best. Should science find undeniable proof of the adverse effects of our carbon output, Oh well! Sure, we could have been years ahead, both in lowered emissions and scientific advances in energy production, but what’s that compared to all the money a few corporations will have made? Our health may have been progressively and adversely affected, but that’s just one of the costs of doing business!

    Oh how I wish we could just split the Earth and allow those of you who are so focused on the bottom line to do your thing while we who take a more holistic approach do ours, but we are unavoidably linked. And since you can always shift gears, build new businesses and make more money, but we have only one Earth and it can’t just be “repaired” we’ll just have to keep dragging you, kicking and screaming into a better future.

    • Bcorp

      Humans heal the Earth. My gosh, at one time, according to science, and there is plenty of evidence still today, the earth was spewing molten rocks and CO2 by the mega, mega tons by the hour. Did the Earth die? Don’t think so cause we have humans posting on this post. All of that bad, bad CO2 ushered in what? Yep, life, first plants, then animals. One can look at an increase of CO2 as a positive in that it enables more and faster plant growth. That is a fact cause plant growers have been known to add CO2 to their hot house plants. More plants, more food, more O2. The circle of life.

      • GALT

        You need to try again ……….hint Cambrian/ pre Cambrian ( no complex life )

    • Capitalist at Birth

      You need to research the science before you spout your fear mongering lies. I have, and you and Al Gore can go to hell. I will burn wood to keep warm and cook if I have to. I just bought 400 of the real light bulbs this last weekend. I refuse to use those phony CFL bulbs that do not use less electricity, nor do they last longer than regular bulbs. In fact they burn out quicker than regular bulbs when used out doors. All a crony capitalist ploy to enrich Jeff Imelt.

      • Kinetic1

        Capitalist,
        Where did I say anything about CFLs? I suppose one might argue that reduced energy consumption leads to reduced coal burning, but I’m not 100% sold on CFLs either. Instead I am referring to advances like lead free gas, improved efficiency in vehicles and factories and reductions in raw waste dumped into our water ways. Are you suggesting that reduced output in newer vehicles has had nothing to do with the improvements in air quality? Do you really want to challenge the idea that allowing raw sewage to be poured into our rivers causes pollution? And how about your wood heat? Would you argue that a fireplace isn’t more wasteful and more polluting than a wood stove?

        I lived in L.A. back in the early 80s. I can tell you stories about smog so thick that I couldn’t see the mountains just 10 miles away. You can’t deny that more stringent standards have resulted in improved air quality. Has the rest of the world followed L.A.s lead? Do third world conditions match ours? No, of course not, but that doesn’t mean we should lower our standards in the name of higher profits. Sacrificing our health and standard of living is a pretty high price to pay for cheaper products.

        John may be right. We may fall behind in our production of certain products if we allow our drive for a cleaner planet to interfere with commerce. In fact one look at the cost of an American made frying pan compared to a Chinese made pan proves this out. And you know what? I’ll pay more for that American made pan. I’ll pay more to help my neighbors make a living. I’ll pay more for the sense of security I get from knowing that my pan is of higher quality, will last longer, and is less likely to contain known carcinogens that the Chinese seem to let slide on everything from toothpaste to children’s toys. I’d rather have a few pieces of high quality furniture than a house full of the stuff you find at Walmart. And the sooner Americans begin putting quality and safety ahead of quantity and price, the sooner China will loose it’s stranglehold on America.

      • George E

        Kinetic1,

        You’re willing to pay more for American made goods…………so long as you have the money to pay the premium. If the American economy continues to decline you may find it harder and harder to find this additional money. If we want a clean environment, we’ve got to have a healthy economy. It can’t be one or the other. We’ve got to find that optimum point where we can have both, or else our society will decline.

      • Kinetic1

        George E,
        And if we continue embracing a Walmart lifestyle, we will continue to weaken our own economy. As long as we continue to place cost and quantity over quality and our own self interest we’ll continue to slide down hill. It’s a self fulfilling prophecy.

      • George E

        Kinetic1,

        I don’t know whether to agree or disagree with your statement. All I know is we should leave decisions like this up to individuals, not the government.

    • DaveH

      Kinetic says — “And since you can always shift gears, build new businesses and make more money, but we have only one Earth and it can’t just be “repaired” we’ll just have to keep dragging you, kicking and screaming into a better future”.
      There it is, Folks, a Freudian Slip from a Liberal Progressive. They have no concern for our happiness, only for Their Power and Their Choices. If we don’t like it they will lump us.
      Now for some common-sense reality for those Folks who know that if we don’t resist them vigorously the Liberal Progressives will take complete control of our lives:
      http://mises.org/freemarket_detail.aspx?control=63

      • eddie47d

        You’re still as dense as the Hoover Dam Dave H. !

      • Kinetic1

        DaveH,
        A freudian slip is defined as
        “A slip of the tongue in which a word that the speaker was subconsciously thinking about is substituted for the one that he or she meant to say.”
        My comments contained nothing of the sort. I thought out my words and said exactly what I meant. The fact is, if those of us who are more concerned about a clean planet then the profits of Walmart don’t drag you along, you will drag us all down. If we acquiesced when the right claimed that higher CAFE standards would kill the auto industry our air quality would have continued to decline instead of improve. If we had allowed timber companies to clear cut with abandon our rivers and streams would have continued to be choked with silt and run off. And if we listen to you now and just give up on solar and wind power, the Chinese will run roughshod over us, creating the next generation of green energy while we struggle with dirty shale oil and preposterous claims of “clean coal”.

        We can only ignore the wall in front of us for so long. We can either prepare to scale it now or wait until we run into it. I, for one would rather avoid the pain of hitting it at full speed and the mess of having to clean up after your wreck.

      • George E

        No one has been, or will ever be right all the time when predicting the future. That’s why it’s generally safer to let the market make decisions like these because, while not always right either, it does have a better long term record than any one person or small group of people.

        Spend all you want on doing basic research on developing alternative energy, just don’t spend our money forcing these products in the market when the market may not be ready for them. This is not the time for wind and solar power in a major way.

        If you’ve got to promote one energy source over another, I suggest you look to natural gas. It can improve the economy and clean the environment. You may note that even with government interference that industry is thriving very well because the market is accepting it.

      • Kinetic1

        DaveH,
        By the way, I do care about your happiness, but I can’t allow that concern to blind me. I want you and everyone else to make a good living, but not if it causes intentional harm to others. Yes, competition by it’s nature will cause some to loose and others to win and that’s just how it has to be, but that doesn’t mean I have to ignore your methods should you stray. I want our kids to have good jobs, but we won’t get there by lowering ourselves to third world standards. And I want our kids to have fun, but I also want them to be aware of the costs of their fun. Riding an ATV can be a blast, but not at the cost of an ecosystem.

        Perhaps this video will give you a clear view of what I’m saying.
        http://www.storyofstuff.org/movies-all/story-of-stuff/

      • Kinetic1

        George E,
        I agree that natural gas is a good, relatively clean source of energy, but like most natural resources the supply is not unlimited and some methods of extraction are questionable.

        As for the market, most people are driven the twin desires of pleasure and pain. Buying a new product can bring a lot of pleasure, but for most of us the cost can bring pain. As a result the market often chooses the cheapest path, not the best. While this may be fine when choosing your brand of soda, it’s hardly the best way to choose energy production.

        Government regulation and investment may not appeal to your sense of capitalism, but it often produces great results. Space exploration is no going private, but it took the government to do the groundwork. The internet is another good example. Auto makers screamed when the government required seat belts, but the reduction in auto related deaths speaks for it’s self. Sometimes the market makes all the right decision, but government regulation and investment can also be a good thing.

      • Right Brain Thinker

        George,

        It’s a bit fatuous to be talking about the “market” deciding on the future of the whole planet. The laws of nature have been governing this planet for 4,500,000,000 years and the concept of “markets” has been around for a VERY small part of that time. When the market goes against natural law, it will fail. Mother Nature trumps greedy rich every time.

      • George E

        I agree with you. I’d agree to something else making decisions like this if there was one. However, I don’t accept that a few self appointed pointy headed politicians or academicians are better than the market which is composed of thousands/millions of individuals betting with their own money on the right answer.

      • DaveH

        Kinetic says — “I want you and everyone else to make a good living, but not if it causes intentional harm to others”.
        A non sequitur, Kinetic. It is simply conjecture on your part to assume any harm and to assume that Free Markets would increase or even match the amount of harm that currently occurs as a result of Pushy Controlling Liberal Progressives asserting the right to micromanage our lives.

      • DaveH

        Brain (Right) says — “It’s a bit fatuous to be talking about the “market” deciding on the future of the whole planet.”.
        What is “fatuous” is allowing the Pushy Controlling Liberal Progressives to decide the future of our planet. We can see from the Liberal Progressives who post here that they have very little integrity, lots of adolescent manipulation, and little in the way of facts or logic. Yet they would like us to believe that they know what’s best for the rest of us — Whether we like it or not.

      • Vicki

        Kinetic1 says:
        “And since you can always shift gears, build new businesses and make more money, but we have only one Earth and it can’t just be “repaired” we’ll just have to keep dragging you, kicking and screaming into a better future”.

        Freudian slip or not, this statement exposes the liberal agenda to FORCE us to do as they want. Thus exposing the natural tyranny of the liberal agenda.

      • GALT

        Yup that liberal von mises was a real idiot.

      • Right Brain Thinker

        And Dave is singing his same two-note song. When are you ever going to say something of significance, Dave? Your constant ranting about adolescent manipulative liberals progressives doesn’t seem to be getting much attention. Add some notes to the song, preferably intelligent ones.

  • FreedomFighter

    I don’t understand Obama. He either doesn’t follow this logic because he isn’t very smart or, more likely, he does understand it thoroughly but is still giving the green light to Green energy without regard to the cost and competitive consequences to the Nation which he has sworn to protect.”

    I don’t understand Obama.

    I dont either but his plans seem to follow elites plan for a New World Order run by a world government, this includes a planet wide reduction in population of upto 90%, packing the remaining pyhsically and mentally stunted slave population into what is called “stack and pack” cities where they will be controlled by the government cradel to grave.

    Your worth to that society is the only reason for your life, meaning no worth, no life, no freedom, no self determination, no liberty — you and your children become mentally and physically stunted slaves controlled by drugs, food and direct genetic manipulation.

    In other words… just the psychopaths elites once again trying to control you, kill you, and enslave your children…same old story with a black man leading the way

    Laus Deo
    Semper Fi

    • KG

      Man, do you have any children? Do you tell them “Well, It’s hopeless. You might as well kill yourselves?”

      I know thinking about the future for guys like you is very difficult. Because , I think, you feel as though the best days of America are behind us. Have you ever considered the alternate? That, maybe, we may be on the edge of peace and prosperity that we have never known before? Well, I guess you believe Ronald Regan when he said that Social Security wasn’t going to be there when you retire. The day my Father qualified for SS, suddenly, all of those taxes I was paying became worth it. I realized then that my paying taxes wasn’t some nebulous affair, but a real consequence.

      I think you need an “attitude adjustment.” Open the door on your bunker and let some fresh air in. Look outside. And if you see any flowers, consider yourself lucky.

      • FreedomFighter

        Atlas Shrugged

        Laus Deo
        Semper Fi

      • Flashy

        KG…bear in mind … a civilized man could act like a barbarian, but a barbarian, could not act like a civilized man.

      • Opal the Gem

        ” a civilized man could act like a barbarian, but a barbarian, could not act like a civilized man.”

        And you prove that with almost every post you make flushy.

      • KG

        Freedom Fighter –
        If you are an Ayn Rand sycophant, you need to drop the “Laus Deo”. Ayn Rand was particularly Anti christian. She felt that the “jesus” story – the sacrifice of a superior being for inferiors – was the height of “looter values.”

        Well, let’s be fair. She really thought ALL religion was superstition and contributed to “looter values.”

        I guess you must enjoy the rantings of a crazy lady.

      • Flashy

        Opal…On this i will agree with you. The real question you should ask…who do you think is the barbarian ?

      • DaveH

        KG says — “I know thinking about the future for guys like you is very difficult”.
        Imagine that, a Union Thug telling us about thinking for the future.

      • DaveH

        KG says — “Have you ever considered the alternate? That, maybe, we may be on the edge of peace and prosperity that we have never known before?”.
        A Union Thug telling us about peace. That’s a laugh riot. Yes it would be peaceful if we just did everything their way.
        But in the Real World there are thousands of variations in peoples’ needs, desires, efforts, and abilities. No one-size fits all, and never will. So it is impossible for Big Government to bring that Peace and Prosperity. The closest we could ever hope to get to Peace and Prosperity would be for people to voluntarily contract with each other in Free Markets — anathema to bully Unionists and Progressives who feed off the “protection” they give us (whether we want it of not). And that “protection” is very, very expensive — 7 times as expensive (in inflation-adjusted dollars) as the Government was in 1900, just 110 years ago.
        In 1900 the Government Spending was 6% of the GDP. Now it’s 40% of the GDP. The current GDP per person per year is about $48,000. So that 34% of GDP that we pay above the 1900 levels amounts to about $16,300 per person, or about $50,500 per average family (3.1 people) in the US, and that is each year. How many of your families would voluntarily pay $50,500 each year for the Government that you receive?

      • George E

        I assume the numbers you cite exclude the taxes we pay to our local and state governments, which if also added would make these numbers even higher. At any rate, this is a good way to frame the discussion for those of us who are actually paying income tax. Thanks.

      • KG

        Why don’t you give up your Automobile? Or all of your electrical appliances? Or even your telephone? You could very well live like we did in 1900. Unfortunately, for you, the rest of us prefer to live in the modern world. Is it perfect? No. But better than having to put a coat on to use the privy out back.

    • Warrior

      Absolutely correct FF and the “herd” has dutifully gotten in line. Well at least the majority has it appears. “Forward”! LMAO!

      • eddie47d

        Why don’t you become a Warrior for a better country instead of being a “slave” to the Wall Street Elites or the Speculators who determine how much you pay for the price of oil. Why do you feel satisfied paying out millions in cleaning up oil and chemical spills? That makes you a “slave” to corporate misdeeds. Why was your father and grandfather a “slave’ to the brown cloud and heavy coal pollution? Someone woke up and took off their chains of pollution “slavery” and found better ways to make our cities cleaner and healthier. Citizens demanded action and the industry had to change and we all benefited from those changes. That is also progress for the old and young alike for most are living longer and healthier lives. There are still battles for the old and young to be fought on other fronts such as with GMOs and the growing diabetes problem. Yet the Green industry is making inroads on the energy front.

      • Capitalist at Birth

        Give me liberty or give me death. On November 8th 2008 I purchased my first fire arm at the age of 59. I told my father (who fought in WWII), he wondered why. I said because I would rather die a free man. After the last four years he now understands. He is not really aware because of his age, what is happening with medicare. The purposely put my mother on hospice earlier this year without my knowledge, in February. She passed away in March. The only medication they gave her was morphine. the death panels have already started. I did not fight the decision because I saw that my mother had given up and didn’t care to live the way she was living. I now have three firearms and several thousand rounds of ammunition. When I can afford I will purchase two more firearms and 10,000 rounds of amo. I suggest everyone get prepared, because the TSA and the Americorp Police are coming.

      • http://www.facebook.com/tony.newbill1 Tony Newbill

        I am building up a cattle herd here at the ranch and am preparing to Stampede the bunch at the TSA and Americorp Police when they come …. They will get the true meaning of a Sh@t Storm

      • eddie47d

        Obviously you don’t understand Hospice care Capitalist and sorry for your loss. Hospice workers jobs is to comfort a dying person in their last days without using extraordinary means to prolong their suffering. That has nothing to do with death panels or fright wing comments.

      • http://www.facebook.com/tony.newbill1 Tony Newbill

        Eddie47d obviously you are not keeping up on the news of how well the Failing Obama economic recovery is working to insure those much needed Drugs that YOU Claim are the Benefit of patients under the care of Hospice , so suffering to go along with higher costs before you suffer that Obama Care is going to usher in is our New Hope and Change !!!! http://rt.com/usa/news/drug-shortage-us-morphine-014/

      • eddie47d

        Hospice care at this point and time has nothing to do with “Obamacare” so you are way off track Tony!

      • http://www.facebook.com/tony.newbill1 Tony Newbill

        Eddie 47d the increased Regulation of EPA standards on the drug Industry and reaction to the implementation of Obama care is why these Drug companies are reducing production . Its all the plan to extract private wealth with inflation on a short supply .

      • GALT

        Damn……….now if you only had more HANDS………

      • Right Brain Thinker

        Capitalist only needs one gun, one hand, and one bullet to put the rest of us out of his misery.

      • eddie47d

        Seems like Capitalist at Birth has Tony chasing his tail too and getting us way off subject.

      • http://tlgeer.wordpress.com tlgeer

        Capitalist at Birth,

        “The purposely put my mother on hospice earlier this year without my knowledge, in February. She passed away in March.”

        Why did you not know this? Who called in Hospice? Are you aware that hospice comes in when the patient, according to their doctors, has less than 6 months to live. This is not unusual.

        “The only medication they gave her was morphine. the death panels have already started.”

        Their are no death panels. Period. When a person gets to the point that hospice is called in the patient is usually in so much pain that morphine is reasonable.

        BTW, I am very sorry for the death of your Mom. It doesn’t seem to matter how old you are, or how old the parent is, when they die. It still tears you up.

      • Karolyn

        Capitalist – I am so happy for your mother. She is free of all physical and mental pain. I only hope that when it is my time, if I am in really bad shape, I can elect to end it myself. Why on earth would anybody want to be kept alive in a body that is already, for all intents and purposes, dead? We, the real “we”, never die.

      • GALT

        10 Reason’s to keep going…….in spite of “whatever”.

        Finish reading “Pillars of the Earth.”
        The death of string theory.
        My daughter’s Carnegie Hall recital.
        Obama’s third term.
        Red Dawn 3
        DavidH writing an “original thought” or an essay without labels or links.
        Finding out how the war to end all wars actually ends.
        Hanging on until the E.T.I.’s show up to rescue me.
        Tom Brady’s sixth super bowl ring.
        Warren Buffet’s funeral.
        To see George W. Bush colonize the Moon.

    • Sirian

      FF,
      Agenda 21 – simple. No, so many still don’t see it for what it is but it does fit into what you’ve said quite well, agreed?

      • FreedomFighter

        Yes, Agenda 21

        Laus Deo
        Semper Fi

  • CHRISTOPHER ALLEN HORTON

    THE PHOTOGRAPH FOR THIS ARTICLE REMINDS ME OF A RECENT ANGER. I WAS IN A Dollar General Store THE OTHER DAY LOOKING FOR 100-WATT LIGHT BULBS. THE CLERK TOLD ME 100-WATT BULBS ARE BEING PHASED-OUT IN FAVOR OF 90-WATT BULBS, WHICH SAVE MORE ENERGY.

    MY EYES ARE DETERIORATING. A 100-WATT BULB DOES NOT PRODUCE ADEQUATE LIGHTING FOR ME. NOW, THE GOVERNMENT IS FORCING CITIZENS TO USE A DIMMER LIGHT?

    THIS “GREEN” EFFORT SHOULD BE IN CONFLICT WITH THE Americans With Disabilities Act.

    • Harold Olsen

      If it were a violation of the US Constitution it wouldn’t matter to Obama. he doesn’t give a damn. He will do whatever he wishes, no matter what. He knows that the Congress (either party) won’t do anything to try to stop him and neither will the Supreme Court. He has overruled both and has gotten away with it. They are perfectly willing to let him destroy this country. In fact, they are his willing accomplices.

      • GALT

        !70+ scientific reasons that prove globing warming is NOT REAL, pick your favorite.

        http://www.skepticalscience.com/

      • http://www.facebook.com/tony.newbill1 Tony Newbill

        It may be fake but its a Great way to continue to take wealth away from the Self reliant Citizens and make them more dependent on the Government … next up is your 401 K , it will be sold as a Investment you will make on fixing the future for your kids , but the Government gets to decide how your money is used to fix the future , ha Ha Ha Ha Ha http://src.personalliberty.com/ego/0f108376-d858-4886-82ed-ac08c1a597f0/400353945/298845

      • eddie47d

        Do you always live in a fog Harold? Does anyone want to spend Thanksgiving with you while your incessant negativity overwhelms the dinner conversation? The article says “you want the best schools ” for the future of our kids . Yet are are willing to vote down every tax increase than may achieve that goal. You vote against every infrastructure project that can get our cities up and running. You attack every Green idea out there because the right wing talking heads tell you so. You want a future yet you don’t want a responsible future. Where folks don’t have to breath increased amounts of pollution. You give the coal industry high fives while the air becomes sicker from the health hazards. I can’t fathom your love affair with deadly mercury poisoning or dirty waterways.You say businesses don’t have to be responsible and we must accept ground contamination and hazard wastes in the name of progress. You sir are the one who is jeopardizing the “children’s future” when you know there is a better and cleaner way yet you refuse to invest a few dollars to make it better. You take setbacks in the green energy industry as proof that they are not working even when they do work. There are problems in the nuclear industry,the coal industry,and oil industry yet you are continually fine with those losses and environmental damages but put up the middle finger to green energy. We need a strong combination of all our energy assets for that shows a real concern for America and a better life for the kids. I can admit that coal is probably here to stay but I also want more responsibility from those industries in environmental destruction and the cost of health care because of them.

      • Framingham47

        Our constitution protects aliens, drunks and U.S. Senators.
        Will Rogers

      • walter agard

        They are real allright, only you con not see it in this reality world.

      • Tom

        If they are willing accomplices (WHY has the House majority leadership still not raised the threat of IMPEACHMENT!), that would be tantamount to TREASON, wouldn’t it?

      • mark

        Elections matter. Obama won. But even victors only get a part of their agenda passed due to our system of checks-and-balances. In Obama’s health care reform, for instance, there is no single government payer. Obama Care doesn’t really qualify as national health insurance in the European manner. Private doctors, hospitals, and insurance companies still run the show in the U.S healthcare system. It is a pretty modest reform compared to Europe and Canada.

      • DaveH

        Galt says — “!70+ scientific reasons that prove globing warming is NOT REAL, pick your favorite”.
        And then he links you to a Pro-Global-Warming-Hoax site. Decepticon.
        What else can we expect from a disingenuous Liberal Progressive?

      • S.C.Murf

        Fast eddie you hammer on Harold about mercury poisoning in the ground water but didn’t say anything about obama making people use light bulbs that have mercury in them. I already know your talking point about the bulbs (recycle, Right?) Well with millions of bulbs in millions of households how many are going to end up in the landfills? And how about when you drop one in YOUR house and it breaks what then. They say first thing to do is clear everyone out, even the animals, what is this telling you? You really want that kind of hazardous crap around you and yours? What we have to do is make sure as we forge ahead that we are not creating even more hazards in our life for our children. Yes we have to be smart about it, every step we take. Happy Thanksgiving bud. TIME for all of us to have an attitude of gratitude, thank you Jesus.

        up the hill
        airborne

      • ccfonten

        Harold: you are exactly correct.

      • eddie47d

        I agree Murf that they should have worked a little harder in finding a better bulb. Mercury is bad no matter where it comes from. I recycle a lot of things but I am really bad about those smaller batteries so even I have to try harder. Have a Great Thanksgiving Day!

      • http://aol.com Terry

        You are 100% right Harold with the 70 to 80 communist in Congress and the minority Supreme Court picked by Obama he can do just about as he pleases sad to say.

      • GALT

        Poor “functionally illiterate” David H……..

        Of the 170+ myths……….those that have scientists attached ( bunkers ) are named,
        and then the SCIENCE……..( not to be confused with non empirical, non disciplines,
        like economics ) is presented……. ( de-bunked )………..there are not a lot of
        ( bunking ) scientist’s there…….

        Your petition ( once again……because you idiots just keep posting this stuff ) is 12 tears old……..the last date it uses is 2000……..it asks a question ( it does not make
        a statement ) and 1/3 of the scientists are engineers…………

        BTW here is one of your signer’s: Freeman John Dyson,

        and here is what he says…….

        Dyson agrees that anthropogenic global warming exists, and has written that “[o]ne of the main causes of warming is the increase of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere resulting from our burning of fossil fuels such as oil and coal and natural gas.”[32] However, he has pointed out that existing simulation models of climate fail to account for some important factors, and hence the results will contain too much error to reliably predict future trends:

        The models solve the equations of fluid dynamics, and they do a very good job of describing the fluid motions of the atmosphere and the oceans. They do a very poor job of describing the clouds, the dust, the chemistry and the biology of fields and farms and forests. They do not begin to describe the real world we live in…[32]

        He is among signatories of a letter to the UN criticizing the IPCC[33][34] and has also argued against the ostracization of scientists whose views depart from the acknowledged mainstream of scientific opinion on climate change, stating that “heretics” have historically been an important force in driving scientific progress. “[H]eretics who question the dogmas are needed… I am proud to be a heretic. The world always needs heretics to challenge the prevailing orthodoxies.”[32]

        More recently, he has endorsed the now common usage of “global warming” as synonymous with global anthropogenic climate change, referring to recent “measurements that transformed global warming from a vague theoretical speculation into a precise observational science.”[35]

      • eddie47d

        Do you lie to your wife too Terry?

      • http://modconntentCom brand inspector

        Haold, The marxistloving/socialst and the congential liying democrats don’t see any problem with ignoring the Constitution not being followed, it is evelving and needs to fit what ever idea they dream up. Look at any of the maddrass educated books with his domistic terrorist, from his Chitcago neighborhood. Think the Shortn Old Buggers would ever have a veiw of any law or standrads, except centerized control and book trained theorists making a rules for every one, except beltway rejects, that never paid what they cost the taxpayers.

      • http://google David

        Your right Harold. Put the heat on the Republicans. They should jump out of their sheep imprinted jammies, put a tie on and fight for our nation.

      • vicki

        GALT. There is nothing wrong with DaveH’s reading comprehension. The site is intended to debunk anyone who would dare challenge the myth of AGW.

        Quote from the header:
        “Explaining climate change science & rebutting global warming misinformation

        Scientific skepticism is healthy. Scientists should always challenge themselves to improve their understanding. Yet this isn’t what happens with climate change denial. Skeptics vigorously criticise any evidence that supports man-made global warming and yet embrace any argument, op-ed, blog or study that purports to refute global warming. This website gets skeptical about global warming skepticism. Do their arguments have any scientific basis? What does the peer reviewed scientific literature say”

        With the revelations of “ClimateGate” we KNOW that peer review is not a part of the debate.

        What is most amusing about the AGW war on CO2 is that they are not just warring against industrial plants. They are warring on the GREEN plants that use sunlight to create oxygen for US to breath. (H20 is the most dangerous green house gas. Good luck getting rid of that one http://www.geocraft.com/WVFossils/greenhouse_data.html)

      • http://yahoo Charles Arthur Williams

        I’ve worked outside for 45 years, as a farm boy and construction workers. I don’t need to be convinced about Global Warming I have SEEN the change in the climate, even changing seed and fertilizer’s to offset the warming ! I have seen stunted growth, the nearer you get to big city’s. The changing of the jet stream, and mega storms closer together, show were farther along that even greens think !

        The Lord created the earth to heal itself, but we keep getting in the way, building in flood plains and trying to control the earth with the ways of man ! We are called to be good stewards, sticking our heads in the sand and ignoring our own eyes is not good stewardship !

        As far as the economy goes, this could be a growth industry ! 1/3 of Germany’s economy is Green, and their doing better than we are ! When I got out of High School in 77 green tech was to be the next big industry. But with Reagan we went backwards, Reagan even removed a solar collector off the White House after it had already paid for itself ! We should be 10 years ahead of the world in green tech, instead were 20 years behind, and actually made Global Warming worse with our addiction to cheap oil !

        Lets get smart on this people so our Grandchildren have a planet healing itself once
        again !

      • George E

        My God man! Even with government subsidies to the wind and solar industries and regulatory constraints being enforced against fossil fuel industries, wind and solar still can’t produce electricity competitively. So, why in heck should we continue going down that path? It’s interesting to note what other countries are doing, but keep in mind that they don’t have cheap natural gas like we do, so while wind and solar might make sense for them, it doesn’t for us.

      • GALT

        Yes vicki there is…….DavidH has a serious “comprehension problem”……

        GALT. There is nothing wrong with DaveH’s reading comprehension. The site is intended to debunk anyone who would dare challenge the myth of AGW.

        Quote from the header:

        “Explaining climate change science & rebutting global warming misinformation

        very good………..except you have to go there first………

        so find something and rebunk it……..

        don’t you think it strange that the “illiterate” would attempt to pass off that
        kyoto protest QUESTION as legitimate……..( and he already tried this )

        And when confronted with the most notable signer…..Dyson……who has completely
        backed off his position…..and ends up with……..

        “More recently, he has endorsed the now common usage of “global warming” as synonymous with global anthropogenic climate change, referring to recent “measurements that transformed global warming from a vague theoretical speculation into a precise observational science.”

        I mean vicki….this is not our first dance…….and you are way smarter than DavidH
        and you also know that I don’t make stuff up……..

        DavidH is a bored and boring fool…….who thinks saying “liberal progressive” is
        an argument…….( sucks when you don’t KNOW what the words mean )

        He thinks he’s the big frog here……….and he’s right…….he’s just short a word….

        He’s the BIG BOILED FROG………and he should have been taken apart
        way before this……….

        Plus it’s not like I didn’t warn him……..

        btw…..are you oscillating from vicki to Vicki today…..

      • eddie47d

        Vickie we understand Dave H’s methods of debunking even if he has to lie to do it.We see what is happening out in the real world not from Dave’s basement view.

      • Robert Smith

        Question asked: “And how about when you drop one in YOUR house and it breaks what then.”

        It’s quite simple, common sense, and not really a problem.

        For the short version one can go to: http://www.snopes.com/medical/toxins/cfl.asp

        The LIE that CFL bulbs are dangerous is simply a propaganda scheme from the extreme right.

        Oh, and the mercury liberated in buring coal for the electricity of an incandesant light is far more than from breaking a CFL. So, if you are really concerned go with CFL.

        Actually as soon as you can afford it got to LED. The more people who go with LED lights the sooner they will become cheap.

        Rob

      • http://pweiters9.wordpress.com pweiters9

        11/23/12, That’s right, Harold, the only thing we can really count on are these alternative-energy cos collapsing no matter how much money is shoveled into them. This will happen, most likely, during BO’s 5th year. The science is just not there to support these wild theorems & their remedies.

      • Vicki

        Robert Smith writes:
        “The LIE that CFL bulbs are dangerous is simply a propaganda scheme from the extreme right.”

        I was not aware that California was an extreme right state. Seems rather intensely blue to me. http://www.cpuc.ca.gov/PUC/energy/consumers/080210_cfls.htm

        So who again is lying about the danger of CFL?

      • Stuart Shepherd

        Eddie 47- You seem to live in a liberal/statist FOG when you criticize Harold for “incessant negativity” because he doesn’t want to pay more (federal) taxes to “get the best schools” (ha, ha, ha- i.e., pay off Obama’s staunchest unionized supporters and liberal destroyers of our childrens’ minds!!!!). There shouldn’t BE a federal income tax- period ( questionably for our defense, and interstate infrastructure, etc., but even that was raised by the government itself prior to the institution of federal taxation). Education should be paid for at the local level, through local taxes, property taxes, etc. It is a local value subject to local standards of every sort. If you don’t want to or won’t pay for your kids education- why should I? It’s throwing good money after bad down a sewer hole!! Community moral standards play into this, as education is a value, like many others. It is NOT a right, NOT an entitlement, and it is not valued when it is treated as such. Statists make me sick!

      • Gordon

        Did you ever see that composite picture of the world at night?

        Hey willing accomplaces, turn off the un-necessary lights.

    • GALT

      So Mr Myers here is a proposition for you……I have a room 40 X 40 x 40.

      The air mixture is 70% OXYGEN and 30% Carbon Dioxide……..2 and 1/5 times
      MORE oxygen than you are breathing now……..

      This ratio will be maintained for the duration of your stay…….how much
      time would you be willing to spend in this room?

      Feel free to bring your favorite plant and animal pets…….

      Don’t hold back………just shout it out when you know…….in fact bring those
      16 scientists too…….

      • Warrior

        House plants work also however, abortion, missiles, drugs, guns all work faster. “Forward”!

      • Flashy

        Galt…the problem with the Moderates explaining to Rightists is a diference in ability to conceptualize and think. Studies show Right thinks black and white with an overlay of a fear for change. Moderates and Liberals have not only the ability to think black and white, but to conceptualize … and have a lower fear of change factor by a large magnitude. I’m not saying one is superior to the other…I’m pointing out the differences in ability to perceive.

        One on side, we have a shrinking number of scientists who proclaim global warming and climate change are either not man made/enhanced or simply is not occurring. These scientists are increasingly on the margins and have credibility only because it’s the last straw the anti earth contingent have to legitimize the belief. (Remember , the tobacco industry regularly trotted out hundreds of “studies” showing cigarettes do not cause cancer)

        Let’s assume they are correct.

        Now let us review some history.

        = In 1969, Cleveland’s oily, contaminated Cuyahoga River caught fire. The cause of the fire is attributed to spontaneous combustion of the intermixing of the chemicals in the river attributed to wastes dumped into the river by the waterfront industries.. Flames climbed as high as five stories until fireboats brought it under control.

        Today, over $2 billion in residential and commercial developments is slated for the area over the next few years and the Brookings Institution called it one of America’s “Emerging Downtowns” because of its 32.2% growth over the past 10 years. Ask those in Cleveland which is the better of the two.

        = Or take Pittsburgh. In the 1950′s, the streetlights and automobile headlights had to be lighted during the day and downtown office workers changed shirts at noon because of the sooty air.

        Today, the stark contrast is Pittsburgh’s consistently high ranking among the nation’s most liveable cities.

        = Showing the effects are not located only in the NE, let’s look at Portland Oregon. In the 1970′s, the City posted the waterfront as unsafe to swim and fish caught had cancerous tumors and showed almost off the charts contents of lead, mercury, and other toxins. Foam as high as 30 feet and stretching shore to shore formed at the base of the Willamette Falls.

        Today, walk the downtown waterfront and gaze at the jet skis the water skiers and marvel at the office workers in suit and tie carrying a fishing ole taking a noon break. And take in the famous “Hawg Lines” at the base of the Willamette Falls where fisherman tie hull to hull forming lines across the river to catch the runs of salmon and steelhead.

        In Eastern oregon, the region’s remaining coal fired electrical plant was tossing out emissions which carried into the Columbia gorge Scenic Area…attacking the rock and fauna. On windless days, one could see a brown haze settled throughout the 40 miles of Gorge. The states (Washington and Oregon) emphasized wind…and today, the Boardman plant is shuttered as wind farms more than amply replaced the production of the coal fired plant. And guess what? No more haze, acid levels have dropped to low background levels. And more jobs than ever created by the new energy industry!

        Across the nation, not one city..not one farm..can say the times of the past were better living than today.

        THAT is the economic costs involved in clean up. Positive economic impacts. Positive health impact. Positive livability impact. .

        So let’s turn now to China as Mr. Myers wants to point as the situs of choice and what we should compare ourselves to.

        Various forms of pollution have increased as China have industrialized which has caused widespread environmental and health problems. A report issued by the World bank states report stated that “hundreds of thousands of premature deaths and incidents of serious respiratory illness caused by exposure to industrial air pollution. Seriously contaminated by industrial discharges, many of China’s waterways are largely unfit for direct human use”. The New York Times in a 2007 article about China’s pollution problem stated that “Environmental degradation is now so severe, with such stark domestic and international repercussions, that pollution poses not only a major long-term burden on the Chinese public but also an acute political challenge to the ruling Communist Party.”

        = Only 1% of the country’s 560 million city dwellers breathe air considered safe by the European Union, because all the China’s major cities are constantly covered in a “toxic gray shroud”. Before and during the 2008 Summer Olympics, Beijing was “frantically searching for a magic formula, a meteorological deus ex machina, to clear its skies for the 2008 Olympics.” A large section of the ocean is without marine life because of massive algal blooms caused by the high nutrients in the water.

        Now…nte the following important fact …World Bank officials said “China’s environmental agency insisted that the health statistics be removed from the published version of the report, citing the possible impact on ‘social stability’”.

        Get that?

        As China’s Middle Class grows, as more and more begin to enjoy the affluence of a market economy, more and more are demanding benefits in life, environment, and health. There is a water shortage in most major cities..not from lack of water…but lack of drinkable water ! The social strain on the political class in China is tremendous and increasing daily. The sheer costs in storm and natural disaster repair will strain a budget that is increasingly under stress. The question is and never has been whether China will clean up..it’s whether they can clean up and regulate fast enough to save the ruling political system!

        Now…let’s review some issues surrounding Global Warming and Climate Change. Increased CO2 levels etc are shown to be dramatically increasing since the Industrial Age came into full swing. Coincidentally, average world atmospheric temperatures are shown to rise as more and more of the world industrialized.

        We now have the North pole exposed with open waters during the summer. HUGE icebergs and ice sheets unprecedented in size in recorded history are breaking off at both polar ice caps. Storms are increasing in intensity and number, oceans are rising and flooding in coastal regions are now the norm in each winter season. Drought is commonplace in regions not known for frequent drought. Summer temps in the 100′s and 100 teens are now common in this country.

        The question to ask the Right (and even Mr. Myers)….you make the claim man is not affecting the warming and change..that it is natural occurrence. The Green is saying it does affect the climate and change. That even if the earth is warming and the cycle is natural, the SPEED of the change is magnitudes greater … centuries instead of millennia, decades instead of centuries.

        Nay…the question is not whether it is occurring..the real question to ask the Right is …what if you’re wrong? Will you explain it to the grandkids when they ask in 50 years why we were so stupid?

        If the Greens are wrong…worst case is a cleaner, more livable and enjoyable lifestyle.

        So…to all you on the Right…what if you are wrong?

      • Ron The Marine

        flashy, you are so full of your savior obummer that you can’t see straight! Who gives a twit about global warming if you can’t feed and take care of your family for the tax burden that will be coming when obummer implements his 3rd world order ignorance! You flashy have to be an obummer mole to spout the obummer [expletive deleted] you shovel! And why are you even on Bob’s conservative site? To dispel all common sense and truth when you see it! To all you dumb-ass flashy thinkers, FALL IN LOCKSTEP WITH THE LOST!

        Semper Fi !

      • Jon

        Galt, your skeptical science site is bull puckey! First hint, it was a World Bank commissioned report. So what do you think those elite money hungry statists are going to say. They won’t stop till we are all poor and they have all the money and going Green is one great way to do it. It’s all part of Agenda 21 and the UN, World Bank, and Council on Foreign Affairs way to take over! The world has gone through these cycles before and most likely wasn’t manmade, so why all of sudden is it manmade? I’ll tell you why, because it’s not.

      • eddie47d

        If you are a Marine Ron then why don’t you fight for a better country or even a better world? The increased burning of fossil fuels does harm to your family and loved ones so shouldn’t that be a concern for you? Flashy pointed out a few ways in which to make your life better and he’s not doing it for profit. How far back do you want us to go before realizing how much damage was done which cost us dearly too. Be thankful that we changed and some of those old problems aren’t with us anymore. Strap those boots back on for America needs strong willed men who will keep America safe and environmentally sound.

      • DaveH

        Flashman says — “One on side, we have a shrinking number of scientists who proclaim global warming and climate change are either not man made/enhanced or simply is not occurring. These scientists are increasingly on the margins and have credibility only because it’s the last straw the anti earth contingent have to legitimize the belief”.
        We do? Perhaps you could cite a real reference, Flashman, to back up that claim since you have no credibility on this board. And I’m not talking about some vague reference to a hard copy magazine that nobody is going to bother looking up. Post us a link, like you should have done for most of your plagiarized comment about China’s pollution which was cut and pasted from Wikipedia:
        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pollution_in_China

        The truth is that the “scientists” who support the Homogenic Global Warming Hoax are bought and paid for by various Governmental bodies. We can expect objective science from them?

      • DaveH

        Here’s what happens to scientists who don’t toe the Government Propaganda line:
        http://www.nevilleawards.com/lindzen.shtml

      • GALT

        But Jon……..are you going in my little room?

        Will you be bringing any scientist’s?

      • DaveH

        Here is a list of those Scientists who are brave enough to face the onslaught of Progressives who will do their best to harass those scientists into submission:
        http://www.petitionproject.org/

      • DaveH

        How the Global Warming Alarmists Use Threats, Fraud, and Deception to Keep You Misinformed:
        http://www.mises.org/misesreview_detail.aspx?control=348

      • eddie47d

        When the Koch Brothers paid to have global warming denied isn’t that fraud and deception? The good thing is that the ones he paid proved the Brothers wrong.

      • Flashy

        Ron/Jon … what if you’re wrong?

        The benefits of controlling and decreasing pollution as well as turning more towards Green Energy are apparent. Both in lifestyle as well as economic (jobs jobs jobs). Jobs in research, jobs in construction, jobs in operations and maintenance.

        As far as affecting climate…don’t forget, the tobacco industry, the asbestos industry, the metals industry…all trotted out ‘credible’ scientists and studies up to the bitter end which “stated’ no adverse health effects. You still believe there is no adverse health effects to smoking? Breath asbestos, ingesting mercury and heavy metals?

        Y’all want to dismiss the livability factor? let me guess..you live next to a landfill then? you’d see no difference in living in a nice, clean area versus a landfill?

        I cited the World bank study out of several dozens at hand. I used that particular study for two reasons. First…doesn’t matter if the World bank is filled with NWO guys…fact is fact…China ain’t gonna receive much leeway in lending and trade terms if the World bank doesn’t believe them solid and stable. thus….no matter what you state as far as whether you believe it or not…it doesn’t matter. it’s what the World Bank will believe and act upon.

        As far as the degradation of the earth and the climate change quickening because of man made emissions…

        What if you’re wrong …

      • Flashy

        like you should have done for most of your plagiarized comment about China’s pollution which was cut and pasted from Wikipedia: <— daveH..i beleive the quotation marks indicate it was copied and pasted.

        Nice to know though you've become phobic about trying to refute the facts and opinions i state. Key word is 'trying" ?

      • Flashy

        DaveH…other than give the names of scientists who are supporting the “non climate change’ issue…how about posting the names of the scientists who do agree with the climate change theory? Ooops

        Noted that you did research my post..and couldn’t refute it.

        So you oppose any efforts at slowing emissions because you agree emissions do cause accelerated climate change, do cause increasing power in storms, do wreck havoc of our environment. So one is now left to ask…what are your goals? The wasting of this nation? What/who do you really support if not this nation?

        Think about that folks …

      • DaveH

        What the Folks can think about, Flashman, is that you very rarely post any kind of proof for your bald assertions.
        And you lie (as usual), Flashman, because all of your plagiarized words aren’t in quotes. Even if they were, you didn’t cite your sources (how usual for the misinforming Flashman).

      • Vicki

        GALT says:
        “This ratio will be maintained for the duration of your stay…….how much
        time would you be willing to spend in this room?”

        I can bring ANY plant(s)? (green growing type?). Does the container count?

      • http://tlgeer.wordpress.com tlgeer

        I remember the days of the environmental disasters in the late-60′s and the 1970′s. I remember how many people died and how the waterways were so poisoned by industrial waste that there was nothing that could live in it.

        Putting our heads in the ground and pretending that we don’t still have issue’s is just plain stupid. Putting our heads in the ground and insisting that human’s do not make weather change, when that was not what is being said (what is being said is that human’s are CONTRIBUTING to it), is just plain stupid.

        Galt, this is not directed toward you.

      • GALT

        For Vicki/vicki….nothing over 6 ft total……..but don’t do it…….

        Your life expectancy is exactly four minutes or less………

        This time you do the work……maybe David can help you…..

      • GALT

        Okay Tigeer……nice not to have to duck……..seriously though…..did you think
        that I would have a reason to think it was directed at me…….?????

      • http://yahoo Charles Arthur Williams

        Dave H, What about the scientist that was paid by the Koch bro’s to debunk Global Warming ? He ended up confirming Global Warming was real !

        I guess that makes the Koch bro’s supporters of Green ! LOL !

      • Vicki

        Charles Arthur Williams says:
        “Dave H, What about the scientist that was paid by the Koch bro’s to debunk Global Warming ? He ended up confirming Global Warming was real !”

        You have evidence? Or is this flashy with a new name. No cites. No links. Just proof by bald assertion.

      • Vicki

        GALT says:
        “For Vicki/vicki….nothing over 6 ft total”

        Why the 6ft limit? The room is 40 ft tall. I want to bring 2 35 ft palm trees (with supporting ground structure since they will be in pots) and a hammock.

      • GALT

        asked and answered dear…….you still want to go in?

      • Vicki

        GALT says:
        “asked and answered dear…….you still want to go in?”

        So you want to restrict the person entering that room so that they can’t get to the 70% oxygen you promised them. How typical of a progressive. Much like “WE have to pass the bill so YOU can see what is in it”. Nice.

      • Stuart Shepherd

        Flashy-
        Thank you for your review of history. This review shows that your thinking has advanced beyond the normal liberal intellectual/emotional/logical and moral level of thinking of maybe 2 or 3 yrs old to perhaps 5 or 6. You are actually able to read a textbook and make a list (which was a very interesting list by the way, and seemed quite accurate). Conceptualize THIS, Flashy- even IF global warming is TRUE (as you and many scientists say it is) there would still be the issue of whether its’ effects would be as disastrous as some say they would be, AND the issue of how best to address it. For the US to go bankrupt (further) trying really STUPID “solutions” (wind, seaweed, even solar) that are literally drops in the bucket would be like the mother not putting the air mask on HERSELF before her child as the airplane loses cabin pressure!

        Immediately, we should beef up nuclear, gas, and even oil production while we work on any realistically tenable solutions. Seaweed is not going to cut it!! It’s too bad nuclear FUSION has been so difficult for scientists to realize (as that would end the discussion permanently) and it may never be possible. The government could sponsor RESEARCH like it does for medical research, but not INDUSTRIES. Let the competitive market force solutions that are actually viable- if they are there and someone feels like they could make a mint trying to develop them, they will do so (even the oil, gas, and coal companies, etc.).

        “Black and white” thinking can be GOOD, Flashy!! It allows one to distinguish between right and wrong, think logically, and “conceptualize” ethically and holistically. You (and other liberals) should try it. Keep it simple, stupid!

    • Chained

      Have you looked into led lights? They save energy, are brighter than fluorescent, last longer and are easier on the eyes.

      • DaveR

        Who is going to make them affordable to me, including changing out dimmer switches? $25 to $50 per LED lamp “bulb” is not economically rational yet. But, of course, it will be as Obama works his Pied Piper schmooze mixed with a bit of anger to ensure that electricity rates necessarily skyrocket.

      • Vicki

        Private Industry is. Current REALLY GOOD LED bulbs are available from $10 and up. Home Depot has some. I have been replacing bulbs in my home for over a year now. One (rather expensive at the time) bulb at a time.

        Here is just one example
        http://www.homedepot.com/Electrical-Light-Bulbs-LED-Light-Bulbs/h_d1/N-5yc1vZbm79/R-202188260/h_d2/ProductDisplay?catalogId=10053&langId=-1&storeId=10051#.UK06VYb4IgI

      • GALT

        Simple……write it down as an expense….use accelerated depreciation and your carbon tax credit…….and then do a stock buy back…..

        Oh wait……you’re a people, not a corporation…..doesn’t that just suck…..

        Then again…..if corps are people, then people are corps.

        If A = B then B = A, right DaveH? ( Dave says von mises says ….duh )

        Seriously…..when are YOU people going to wake up…….

        You as a “people” buy a “duplex”…….you live in one side, you rent the other…..

        As time goes by…..your side appreciates…and the other side depreciates

        As a corp…..that house is GONE is no time……..all of it…..

        So you sell the non-house……which now magically becomes a house….

        and falls apart all over again…….. ( see Yogi Berra Rule )

        As a corp you can be immortal until it is inconvenient……..

      • Vicki

        GALT says:
        “Simple……write it down as an expense….use accelerated depreciation and your carbon tax credit…….and then do a stock buy back…..

        Oh wait……you’re a people, not a corporation…..doesn’t that just suck…..”

        And thus GALT describes the problem with Cronys and Government.

        Note the focus of corruption is, as conservatives have said here for some time, Government

      • GALT

        Someday Vicki……you may actually get the point……..

      • Opal the Gem

        Someday Galt you might actully have a point for us to get.

    • JUKEBOX

      In our part of the country, GREEN is an indicator that moss, mold or mildew is present.

      • http://modconntentCom brand inspector

        JOKEBOX, The mold must be the natural way to take care of the dead azzed socialist democrats and the lazy brained morons, idoits that want someone else to take care of them. The rug humping leach in the WH sure will not tell what him and the multi millionare dem congress people will pay in their plans to tax everyone more, which they will do. So as more people will have more fungus and mold invading organisms destroying jobs and people. So the nation who supports the socialist/marxist plans of UN controlled nation of the USA, which the marxist and all dems support, So buy stocks in (firesticks) manufactering , an Indian term for armorment. Think of another pres. who has lived off government programs and created nothing usful except, liberial college educated idoit theorists.

    • TeaParty Patriot (TPP)

      http://www.wnd.com/2012/11/how-obama-can-be-stopped-in-electoral-college/

      How Obama can be stopped in Electoral College

      Just like the “rats did in Wisconsin and the “rats did in Texas when they left the state to deny the RINOs a state quorum. DENY the electoral college a quorum by refusing to show up at the college . . . Read more

      Exclusive: Judson Phillips offers constitutional means to put Romney in office Jan. 21
      Published: 16 hours ago

      by Judson PhillipsEmail | Archive
      Judson Phillips is the founder of Tea Party Nation. Follow him on Twitter at @judsonphillips or @teapartynation.

      We have one last, final chance to save America. We have one last, final chance to stop Barack Obama. One final chance.
      What is this final chance? Will the Republicans step up to the plate and do what is necessary?

      Barack Obama has not yet been re-elected president.
      Yes, the election is over – but remember, a presidential election in America is not by popular vote. We vote for the candidate, but what we are really doing is voting for the electors who will meet on the Monday after the second Wednesday in December.
      That is when the actual re-election of the president occurs.
      Is there a way to stop this?
      Yes, there is.
      And the best part – this is totally constitutional.
      The 12th Amendment of the Constitution as well as Article II of the Constitution govern the Electoral College.
      According to the 12th Amendment, for the Electoral College to be able to select the president, it must have a quorum of two-thirds of the states voting. If enough states refuse to participate, the Electoral College will not have a quorum. If the Electoral College does not have a quorum or otherwise cannot vote or decide, then the responsibility for selecting the president and vice president devolves to the Congress.
      The House of Representatives selects the president and the Senate selects the vice president.
      Since the Republicans hold a majority in the House, presumably they would vote for Mitt Romney, and the Democrats in the Senate would vote for Joe Biden for vice president.
      Can this work?
      Sure it can.
      Democrats have actually set this precedent of refusing to participate to deny Republicans a quorum. They did this in Wisconsin and in Texas. Why can’t we do this with the Electoral College?
      Mitt Romney was a terrible candidate, and he will not be a great president. But he will be infinitely better than Barack Obama.
      So how do we do this?
      Mitt Romney carried 24 states. We need to have conservative activists from all over the nation contact the electors, the Republican Party and the secretary of state in all of these states and tell them not to participate in the Electoral College when it meets on Dec. 17.
      If we can get 17 of those states (just over one-third) to refuse to participate, the Electoral College will have no quorum. Then, as the Constitution directs, the election goes to the House of Representatives.
      That is how we can still pull this election out and make Mitt Romney president in January.
      We need this concept shared with every tea party, liberty and patriotic group throughout the country. We have time to act, but we must pressure Republicans to do the right thing.
      It does not matter who gets credit for this. The credit is not important. Using our last chance to defeat Barack Obama is important.
      Far too often the Republican Party seems more interested in losing gracefully than winning and governing.
      This is our last chance. We the people must contact the electors, party officials and secretaries of state from every red state and insist that they refuse to participate in the Electoral College.
      We can still save America and use the Constitution to do it. But this truly is our last chance.

      • GALT

        T.otally T.ouched P.erson

        Willard has already committed to saving Hostess…….made in China, assembled in the U.S.

      • Right Brain Thinker

        WOW! This piece rates 4 “Lord love a ducks” on a 5-point scale. Sounds workable too, especially if this is combined with all the folks who are advocating seceding and the folks who are advocating that we “go to the guns”. A real circus, complete with clowns.

        I can agree with this, though, with small changes. “Far too often the Republican Party seems more interested in losing STUPIDLY and with DENIAL than winning so that they can NOT govern but instead seek to “drown the government in a bathtub”. (THank you, Grover. .

    • carrobin

      You must be going to the wrong store. I have no trouble buying 150-watt bulbs–though I am stockpiling them in case they disappear, as has been warned for about five years now.

      The planet is warming. Sea levels are higher. The icebergs and glaciers are retreating and melting. It’s happening faster than scientists expected. Whether or not humans can do anything about it, there’s a case to be made for not making it worse. Obama has the right idea. (And Obamacare was a great idea–even if some dolts think it was “shoved down their throats.” They should see a doctor for some cough drops.)

      • http://modconntentCom brand inspector

        Any one that spouts gobal warming BS, must have let go of their mamee’s breast or come out of the basement. Weather is never static, and varies every 7 years. Too much is pushed out of liberial colleges and from socialist/marst morons, to get total control over everyone and everything. Duh Gore carbon teroy tade was a money ponzy scheme. Blaming mnkind for changing climate is a stupod egotisical idea of true morons, thinking they are the powerful creation/creator. These are the same pukes who cann’t pay the owed taxes, behave honestly. See anothe socialist/communist Ill. democrat is flying the coop because of fraud, stealing and just being a corrupt phony whorehound dem. Oh forgot the more sleazy, corrupt, and crimminal minded, the higher the rank of office and standing in the socialist/democrat party. Same pervs who embrace global waeming bildge, they need to get their heads out of dark,dank personilized orfices. Real world, climate is always changing, this BS comes from the group, who promoted The Big Freeze Down in late 70′s and early 80′s. Too many book trained idoits not living in life or producing nothing but BS, think Gores and their idoicy foe everyone but themselves, shades of the socialist democrat, charge everyone else, and don not abide by their spouted BS..

      • boyscout

        But all that extra CO2 helps crops grow – even if they are under sea water.

      • eddie47d

        Wrong Boyscout!

      • http://yahoo Charles Arthur Williams

        Brand Inspector it is you with your head up the arse ! I’m a old farm boy and understand the Biblical 7 year rotation, but when each 7 year cycle continues to rise, something serious is happening !

        To say we don’t have a effect on the planet, goes against the Dominion and Stewardship GOD gave us in the Garden !

    • http://jruss45.wordpress.com jruss45

      When 100 W bulbs were banned they made 95 W bulbs. When 60 W bulbs were banned they made 57 W bulbs. Not a significant difference. However, if you want more light, get a halogen bulb. They put out more and bluer light for the same wattage as a standard incandescent bulb. For close work I use a 20 W 12 V halogen bulb. Some of the new LED lights are very bright. But they are not cheap.

    • Robert Smith

      Christopher claims: “A 100-WATT BULB DOES NOT PRODUCE ADEQUATE LIGHTING FOR ME. NOW, ”

      That’s an outright lie unless you’ve worked with lighting all of your life. Most folks can’t even tell the difference of a single f-stop in light which would be half as much.

      Unless one is gifted with being able to “see” light (in the same context of “perfect pitch”) the differences are simply too subtle.

      But, thanks for the fine example of talking through the other end of your digestive tract.

      Rob

    • deerinwater

      Incandescent bulbs are manufactured in a wide range of sizes, light output, and voltage ratings, from 1.5 volts to about 300 volts. They require no external regulating equipment, have low manufacturing costs, and work equally well on either alternating current or direct current. As a result, the incandescent lamp is widely used in household and commercial lighting, for portable lighting such as table lamps, car headlamps, and flashlights, and for decorative and advertising lighting

      Incandescent bulbs are less efficient than several other modern types of light bulbs; most incandescent bulbs convert less than 5% of the energy they use into visible light (with the remaining energy being converted into heat).

      Some applications of the incandescent bulb deliberately use the heat generated by the filament. Such applications include incubators, brooding boxes for poultry, heat lights for reptile tanks,[1][2] infrared heating for industrial heating and drying processes, and the Easy-Bake Oven toy. But waste heat can also significantly increase the energy required by a building’s air conditioning system.
      Because of their inefficiency, incandescent light bulbs are gradually being replaced in many applications by other types of electric lights, such as fluorescent lamps, compact fluorescent lamps (CFL), cold cathode fluorescent lamps (CCFL), high-intensity discharge lamps, and light-emitting diodes (LEDs). Some jurisdictions, such as the European Union, are in the process of phasing out the use of incandescent light bulbs by banning them with laws to force them being replaced with more energy-efficient lighting.

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incandescent_light_bulb

      So get with the program! and quit trying to be a dittzs. ~ Don’t be the one crying out “Get a Horse” scoffing at innovation and the science that affords us more control over our lives with greater easy.

      The world is not endless with it’s abundance. Be smart and change your understanding of the world that you live in. You don’t have to be a caveman. Be thrifty, be conservative, be wise.

      America has not been the leader in new innovation for a good 20 years, for it’s wealth and abundance has not required us too. Times change, ~ and wise is those that understand that it’s a good thing and something to do and not scoff at.

      I’ve been involved in practical application of energy management on many levels since the mid 80′s, and we have come a long way since then. But you might be shocked to know, we only follow Europe in this effort as they are a good 15 years ahead of the US in application.

      I know that none of you really know me, ~ who I really am or what I really do, ~ while I’ve told you many times that I was a Plumber/ Air-Conditioning Contractor, I have also told you that I have spend years in “Recovery & Reclaim”, ~ all of which is true. ~ I have made a career of recovering what has been lost. I have recovered military equipment, from Tanks to vessels, where they were just stuck in in mud 4 foot deep in hostile territory, required setting off charges to blow them free and ship them home to chasing down thieves or enemy forces that had ” acquired” US vessels and military hardware in international waters. You will never hear about what I do. ~ For many reasons, the embarrassment, accountability and potential collateral damages makes it impossible.

      Today, I am a civilian contractor and still I chase down waste, loss and pirates , where it is energy or resources with these same vigor. ~ UNNECESSARY WASTE AND LOSS IS A CRIME.

      And then I get to come here and have David H calling me a liberal. ~ that is funny.

      • GALT

        Pretty much everything DavidH says is funny…..BUT that would be a subtle and
        some would say “acquired taste”………

        Mostly what DavidH is…….is tragic, the sad product of the “last empire”, lurking in
        a backwater niche marketing site pretending to be someone…….

        He is, for all the public funds invested in him, a “willfully ignorant functional illiterate”
        who representsa completely negative ROI, and whose sole remaining life
        goal is to yell loudly, to attract others of his kind……”ignorance is strength” ( in numbers )
        to camoflage his true nature, or deflect from it……or even worse, for potential breeding
        purposes…..since he clearly has not achieved reproductive success……since no sane
        female would consider bearing his off spring. ( and would have slapped him silly by now
        if she had. )

        Of course, in the world of “internet niche marketing”……the “hungry undiscriminating
        mushroom” can be mistaken for a “useful asset”…………especially in a down market.

        IBM is pushing “analytics” to improve marketing results…….Bob?

    • jimster

      Just use 2 90 watt bulbs. Problem solved.

    • Hedgehog

      The better to keep you in the dark my friend!

    • Vicki

      eddie47d says:
      “Vickie we understand Dave H’s methods of debunking even if he has to lie to do it.”

      Typical liberal. Throw out an unsubstantiated claim attacking the messenger and expect us to believe. You trying to beat flashy’s credibility score?

blog comments powered by Disqus
Bottom