Picture it,
You live in the most densly populated area on earth.
You are surronded by a wall you did not build.
Your only airport bombed.
You can,t go more then a mile offshore to fish for your family because a foriegn navy wont let you.
That same navy makes it impossible for you to get concrete to rebuild your home
You can,t get your crippled father a wheel chair. the blocade wont allow it.
You arn,t allowed to by your wife chocalete.the blocde wont allow it.
They wont even allow yor children toys to disract them from life.
You’re at home when you hear you childs school has been bombed by ther planes with your child still in it.
They direct ther sewage into your village.
And when you work up the courage to ask ” why ” they say it,s your own fault.
Thn someone walks up tells you ther is a way to fight for a better future for your family what do you do?
That is the reality and choice facing every man in Gaza surrender and be enslaved or fight for his freedom, his land, his countrey, his faith, his familys future and his own dignity.
If your nieghbor treated yo like that how would you react? would yo bow or fight?
Don t blame a man for tying to be a man.,

P.O. and liberal, please buy and use a freaking spell checker. The words that are underlined in your post are not spelled right.

Dale ,is that the best you can do.The old Zionist trick of calling people names RATHER than REFUTING my ACTUAL argument. MOST of the commenters on this site, with the exception of “Ranger09″ will fall for your diatribe so you are in good company

You don’t have an “argument” Roger . . . just quote passages from the Protocols of Zion . . .
I quoted ACTUAL HISTORY . . .

Dale, west coast,,,
Where did you learn The Bible? from the LA basin false prophet Judea Christian preachers ??? or Hal Lindsey and the West Hollywood Jews??? Read the one page book of prophecy in The Bible named “Obadiah”, and you will read what is about to happen to the people that Adolph Hitler pointed out over 60 years ago…. Meanwhile…………..
Praise King Jesus for Salvation and Healing… Acts 2:38 is salvation…

Charlie Freedom

You just slept through the 90′s eh Mark . . .

eddie . . . I think the savages are doing a fine job of creating the final conflict . . . with the help of that “Bag of Hammers” in the WH . . .

So what was the results of the half heart-ed meetings obama poorly attended by our Mr. Big. Did Israel benefit?, not at all. Those meetings were a waste of time for Israel. Personally I think Israel should Nuke every one of those muslim terror nations & take their land for their own as the muslims have said they will do to Israel. Get rid of the mulims & the problems will disappear over night & oil will drop in price to much less in cost. The muslims are the real problem, Hell, they won’t even help their own people with all the MONEY they have, they could give the PA, etc 4 x as much land they have as Israel is in size. muslims have plenty of land that is unused. The PA got the west bank & gaza & did they turn it into agricultural Land as Israel has done with it’s land?, NOT .NO, they turned the land they got into Bomb producing factories. You don’t look at the Big Picture at all.

Thank you eddie for following the news and having you voice heard.

I see you have Flipp-ed out. Israel has over 300 nuke missles I think they are big enough to handle a major threat if attacked. If they are attacked then we will be there to defend them. You couldn’t kill all the Muslims in the world even if you tried so stop being a fool. I reckon that would be a cheap solution from a cheap man.

You mean like he was watching the folks in Benghazi . . . as the “terrorists” attacked and killed them . . . is the help coming yet?

Walt in Priusville . . . you are surrounded by dummies . . . worshipping Gaia and driving their Priuses. lol
The savages have been savages since the 6th century, the Christians beat them back from the gates of Vienna and Paris . . . some things never change . . . like that abject stupidity of the left . . .

The O’bammy administration is enabling the mooslime brotherhood in Egypt and now in Libya and Syria . . .
When all the details of the Benghazi incident come out . . . it is likely that the Turks were helping the administration run weapons into Syria . . .
The brotherhood is constructing a new moooslime califat . . . can the 12 imam be far behind ?

How would America respond with rockets hitting some of the neighborhoods in D.C or Detroit? First they would check if some of the hood was ready for demolition. If it was than obuumer would go over to hamas , bow and say, “job well done”. It will be part of the deficit reduction. Go Israel…..bomb the hell out of them…you’ve got the balls to do it. It’s do or die.

eddie47d; Israel doesn’t force America to war in Iran and doesn’t confiscate lands in the “West Bank”, as it called. As far ad Iran Israel was ready tio attck Iran in 2010 but Pr. Bush helt Israel back, because some American interests in the ME. It shows that US sometimes uses Israel for hers own interests. Now, Obama’s administaration prefers to orgenize a Western coalition to push Iran back politicaly and if not succeeded then to attack her’ as the last step. That plays well with the Israeli interests as long as Obama sticks firm to that policy. If not, that Israel will attack Iranian’s nuke facilities alone.
As for the Palestinian issue, Israel is building only on public/state assets and not on private’s.The area that is called “the occupied territories” are legaly under Israel protection and from the legal point of view they are “Lands in despute”. The West Bank was occupied by Jordan in 1948, and Israel re-occupied them in 1967. The Palestinian people was invented Only after 1974 (with the Arafat+Abu Abbas paper of the “Stages Policy” to annihilate Israel, which is working even today). Abu Abbas startegy is not to recognize the RIGHT of the Jews to have their own National State in the ME, and the PA/PLO plan of statges is on drive: Annihilating Israel with stages through terror and political means. Yet they have to presude the world that their “right of return” is practical. The “right of return” of the anccestors of the 1948 refugges to Israel itself witl change Israel demografic for ever and will turn her into Islamic state. An inside self suicide to Israel. Of corse Israel denies that demand, and that’s why Abu Abbas doesn’t return to the political takls for peace. The Arabs are very well succeeding with their political move by the help of the Europeans, but stay way back as long as their terror abilities against strong Israel are quite poor.
Hear hear Nabil Shaath: We’ll Never Accept “Two-States for Two Peoples” Solution:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-CkImOGcHcw&feature=related

Why wouldn’t you for you are a right wing troll whether the truth is told or not.

eddie47; Arab Muslims kill Israelis just because they are Jews…. Israel fight, aim and kill Arab terrorists. Arab civilians killed only because Arab terrorists are hiding behind kids and women!!!!! Arab terrorists afraid to fight the Israli soldier on battleground!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=RTu-AUE9ycs

The reason is because of past signed commitments & our Military trade agreements with Israel in which the US has obtained secrete spy & defensive / offensive weapon technology from Israel. Why worry about the $$ we allow them to have when we give more than our share to arabs / muslim terrorist nations who do nothing but raise the price of Oil to the US? You must be short sighted because if we side with Israel it gives the US 1st crack at all that oil just discovered by Israel, who is our FRIEND so that we are not dependent on muslim oil who hate us or Hate the US.

eddie47d; I really don’t understand those who call to stop US military aid to Israel. Israel is the highest US state department assistance’s receiver country. But Japan, S. Korea, Germany, Saudi Arabia, Persian gulf monarchies and others play the so-called “Israeli role”, by having US soldiers on their soil and much more amount of American money paid for that pleasure (through defense ministry budget, and not from the foreign office, as Israel gets).

First, Most of the US money given to Israel doesn’t even leave the US but paid to military factories and associates, as decided in the cooperation agreement, that give jobs to ten of thousands of US citizens. If the US aid will stop to flow to those factories many employees will go home. I’m not sure that Israel will buy all their products from the US. Sure Israel will prefer to calculate her steps by economically standards and buy her need in the global market or producing some of those products by herself. Remember how the US pushed Israel to stop “Lavi” aircraft project, because she wanted Israel to stay dependent on US’s help.

Second, the close and intimate security relations between both states influence the nature of how things done. Israeli high qualified and high sophisticated technology, scientific know-how, military components, gadgets, experience, inventions and developments flow to the US almost for free and benefit the US security interests and save them huge amount of money which they might intended to allocate to the same missions. Israel gives or sells to the US more than 2000 kind of military and security objects from missiles and pilots’ glasses, electronic valves to soldiers’ boots.

Third, as long as US money given to Israel, Israel is not free to sale her military products and know-how to any country they wish, without the US pre-approval. In such process the US control most of Israel technological and military export. That’s plays to the commercial benefit of the US and hurts Israel interests.

Forth, if the US boycotts Israel then Israel will be free to create other partnerships with various states such as France, Russia, India, and China in order to fix her geo-political alliances. That will hurt the US stand in the Middle East; the US economy that lays much on selling products to Israel; and the Israeli contribution to US industry and technology.

if the US boycotts Israel then Israel will be free to create other partnerships with various states such as France, Russia, India, and China in order to fix her geo-political alliances. That will hurt the US stand in the Middle East; the US economy that lays much on selling products to Israel; and the Israeli contribution to US industry and technology.

1. The US gains very warm entrance into Israel core of military, scientific and political leadership and know-how and have a vast base to manipulate the Israeli politicians into American interests (an exemplary case is the “Lavi” project).
2. The 2.7B$ a year is paying back mainly through US military compounds and industries that give huge “blood pressure” to those factories and keeping their employees on jobs.
3. Israel keeps close ties with the factories she buys from and with the US army / navy / air force and advices them how to improve military projects and how to adjust them to meet the battle needs. Some military Israeli products are playing major roll in Iraq and Afghan arenas and save American soldiers’ lives (UAV, Optical gadgets, communication assets, operation know-how). US soldiers are trained in Israel in military tactics which help them to operate in ME desert’s environment and terrain.
4. Israel new inventions, adjustments, gadgets, experience, know-how, technologies and developments flow to the US almost for free and help the US industries and armies and soldiers at battle fields. The “Arrow” project is not just partially subsidized by the US, but the ownership and the future profits are theirs too. So apart from the fact that the US benefits its dollars again she also benefited from acquiring the new systems’ technological breakthrough of the “Arrow” and the tactical new operative concept of the system. The “Arrow” is only the most known example, but there are many others which didn’t get yet known to the public (Some hint mentioned: the Laser bean system, air to air and air to ground missiles and “’Iron Dome” missile-defense system).
5. Let’s take for example the UAV drone projects. Israel was the first country that took this matter seriously in the early 70th and developed huge and fascinating UAV industries that lead the world with new developments and breakthrough concepts and technologies. The US woke up only 20 years later and Israel helped hers military industries to start their UAV’S project and created co-partner companies to investigate and produce better UAV and to study the tactics and the strategic benefits of these aerial vehicles. Now, the US and alliance forces in Afghanistan and elsewhere are using Israeli drones, or drones that were produced on those states with the help of Israeli technology. Using the UAV in Afghanistan and Yemen saved the lives of many US and allies’ soldier.
6. More than Israel wants the military US aid, the US wants to give it to Israel. The 2.7B$ a year turns Israel to be more tied and depended on US interests and makes the US more influential over Israel, which gives her more political value and strength in the eyes of the Muslims states.
7. Israel combatant expertise were taught in the US, Britain, Australia, France military units, and some of the combatants came to Israel to be trained at Israel military facilities. Not to mention that this expertise is saving lot of the coalition’s soldiers lives in Iraq and Afghanistan.
8. Israel industries produce lot of technology and military excellent products which are well sold everywhere. But she can’t sell these goods to countries that the US thinks will harm her own interests, while the US sells almost everything to everyone, even to Israel’s enemies, without asking Israel’s opinion. This is the best situation that the US can wish for herself, and that is one of the reasons for the US policy to give Israel this annual aid which lets her almost control the Israeli security selling on global markets. The US even influencing Israel by stopping Israeli new military projects that may weakened the Israeli military ties and dependent on the US, such as the closure of the fighter ‘Lavi’ project in late 80th. Too militarily Independent Israel doesn’t serve the US interests, to be polite.
9. I’m sure that I can raise more issues to explain why the special US-Israel connection benefits the US more than Israel, but I’ll let others to add, for now.
10. I’m sure that your first reflection will be astonishing and then unbelieving which lead you to reject the truth and taking you to denial. In any case your short sighted brain brings chaos to your naïve view over Israel. But as long as you study the facts you won’t be able to escape the truth.

No, the headline is correct. Chicken or the egg, Vig? We can backup to 1948 to answer that question, and you will find… if your judgement is objective… that the headline is ultimately correct.

Besides,

“Reportedly, attacks on Gaza City carried out by Israeli fighter jets, drones and helicopters resulted in widespread destruction and civilian casualties”

“More than 150 rockets are reported to have been fired from Gaza, damaging homes and factories.”

So civilian casualities in their “surgical strikes” are more acceptable than structure damage by rockets.

Chicken or the egg my a$$, TML. That sort of intellectual dishonesty in your pro-Iran, anti-Israel screeds is becoming trite and boring.

If Israel’s neighbors ever STOP lobbing terrorist rockets and mortars into Israel, you can bet your bottom dollar Israel would stop, as it has done MANY TIMES when Hesbollah and Hamas have temporarily discontinued their barrages.

And who ALWAYS breaks the truce? Three guesses and the first three are NOT Israel.

You would do well to read http://www.algemeiner.com/2012/11/14/israel-launches-pillar-of-defense-operation-in-gaza-decapitation-wave-against-hamas-terror-leadership/

“Military sources told The Algemeiner that “A significant number of munitions depot’s are within civilian, residential buildings. This fact is another illustration of Hamas’ modus operandi which uses the civilian population in Gaza as a human shield.”

Great humanitarians, those folks, huh?

To answer your question, you bet you’re a$$ “civilian casualities in their “surgical strikes” are more acceptable than structure damage by rockets.” And next time, don’t load the question like some shyster lawyer; those rockets are gratuitously sent to sow the fears of terrorism.

The Palestinian people elected Hamas as their leadership. If they don’t want to die because Israel takes defensive action, then let them kick Hamas out of the civilian, residential buildings.

P.S. The headline as I rewrote it is impeccably correct.

By the way TML, the chicken came first.

Vigilant says “Chicken or the egg my a$$, TML. That sort of intellectual dishonesty in your pro-Iran, anti-Israel screeds is becoming trite and boring.”

Intellectual dishonesty? My a$$?
I see it is not an objective judgment, but instead a very subjective one.
And I didn’t say anything about Iran here.

You never disappoint, Vig
And might I add; your support for Israel is stunning for a self-proclaimed non-Christian. Exactly what do you label yourself?

Vigilant says “If Israel’s neighbors ever STOP lobbing terrorist rockets and mortars into Israel, you can bet your bottom dollar Israel would stop, as it has done MANY TIMES when Hesbollah and Hamas have temporarily discontinued their barrages.”

Sure we could bet our bottom dollar Israel would stop ‘lobbing’ rockets if their neighbors stopped ‘lobbing’ rockets, but you can also bet your top dollar the encroachment of Palestinian lands, both in Gaza and the West Bank (that which provokes their neighbors), would NOT stop regardless of the action of their ‘neighbors’.

Vigilant says “And who ALWAYS breaks the truce?”

TRUCE? You would do well to consider: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XFWkWib5CTs

Vigilant says “Military sources told The Algemeiner that “A significant number of munitions depot’s are within civilian, residential buildings. This fact is another illustration of Hamas’ modus operandi which uses the civilian population in Gaza as a human shield.”
Great humanitarians, those folks, huh?”

Great humanitarian folks to shoot anyway, eh?

Vigilant says “To answer your question, you bet you’re a$$ “civilian casualities in their “surgical strikes” are more acceptable than structure damage by rockets.” And next time, don’t load the question like some shyster lawyer; those rockets are gratuitously sent to sow the fears of terrorism.
The Palestinian people elected Hamas as their leadership. If they don’t want to die because Israel takes defensive action, then let them kick Hamas out of the civilian, residential buildings.”

Sir, I actually used to respect you, but that sentiment is waning heavily by such grotesque comments.

Vigilant says “P.S. The headline as I rewrote it is impeccably correct.”

Only in your authoritarian mind, my friend… only in your mind.

“And might I add; your support for Israel is stunning for a self-proclaimed non-Christian. Exactly what do you label yourself?”

Talk about loaded questions. You find it impossible to get your brain around the idea that anyone could support Israel for other than religious reasons. Leave the narrow mindedness behind and expand your insights, if that’s possible for you.

I find it equally stunning that allegedly rational human beings living in our constitutional republic are blind to the absolute evil of those who would indiscriminately TARGET innocent human beings through homicide (NOT suicide) bombings.

I find it incomprehensible that those allegedly rational persons would fail to recognize that Israel is the ONLY democratic nation in the area, prosperous and solvent because of its adoption of the same principles that made out country great.

And I find it unconscionable that those allegedly honest persons would hide their anti-Semitism behind a smokescreen that snatches at any canard to further their insidious condemnation of a free nation interested ONLY in self-preservation.

I find it intellectually dishonest to champion the cause of a set of nations who sit like jackals on the borders of a nation, ready to pounce at any opportunity, to destroy a country because they never thought it had a right to exist.

I find it despicable that a nation with no hegemonic aspirations is faulted, while Iranian-funded Hezbollah and Hamas finds aid and comfort in the words of people such as yourself.

I find it a true indicator of evil when a nation programs its young to hate the innocent people of another nation.

I could go on, but I won’t. You won’t listen, you won’t change. You’ve made that abundantly clear in your postings.

P.S. I’m a Deist. To borrow your words, “Exactly what do you label yourself?”

Vigilant says, “You find it impossible to get your brain around the idea that anyone could support Israel for other than religious reasons.”

On the contrary, ‘Zionists’ are often atheistic and feed on the religious.

Vigilant says, “I find it equally stunning that allegedly rational human beings living in our constitutional republic are blind to the absolute evil of those who would indiscriminately TARGET innocent human beings …”

Me too… that’s what the article here is about; the indiscriminant targeting of innocent human beings as evil. Didn’t you say “A significant number of munitions depot’s are within civilian, residential buildings… …another illustration of Hamas’ modus operandi which uses the civilian population in Gaza as a human shield. You bet you’re a$$ “civilian casualities in their “surgical strikes” are more acceptable than structure damage by rockets.”?

Do you think that shouldn’t be seen as targeting innocent human beings when it is said civilians are being used as human shields and yet they shoot anyway? How do you condemn such ‘evil’ by one people, and support the same kind of ‘evil’ by another? You’re engaging with cognitive dissonance to support Israel as some virtuous people that can do no wrong, while utterly ignoring the evils done to Palestinians.

Btw… I find these claims of using civilians as human shields erroneous and dishonest in an over populated strip of land. As was pointed out… that ‘war zone’ is people’s (innocent people’s) neighborhoods and homes. To destroy a building along with innocent civilians because it is believed Hamas or Hezbollah are hiding munitions there, and then blame those deaths on them for using civilians as a shield, or even blaming the civilians themselves as you tried to do, is not only the worse sort of intellectual dishonesty and hypocrisy I can imagine, but just downright grotesquely inconceivable any human being with a conscience could say such a thing.

Vigilant says, “I find it incomprehensible that those allegedly rational persons would fail to recognize that Israel is the ONLY democratic nation in the area, prosperous and solvent because of its adoption of the same principles that made out country great.”

It’s incomprehensible that someone would attempt to say Israel was built on the same principles that made this country great. Israel is a parliamentary democracy and doesn’t even have a written Constitution. Democracies can be just as tyrannical as any dictatorship. You obviously know nothing of Israel’s political structure.

Vigilant says, “And I find it unconscionable that those allegedly honest persons would hide their anti-Semitism behind a smokescreen that snatches at any canard to further their insidious condemnation of a free nation interested ONLY in self-preservation.”

I think for the term anti-Semitism to stick; one would have to oppose Israel with the same zeal in which you support it: unconditionally. That is not my position. They are not ‘only’ interested in self-preservation when they constantly encroach Palestinian land that isn’t theirs. Such encroachment even resulted in the death of an American… or did you ignore that too? Understand; if it were not for that fact [illegal encroachment of Palestinian land], and the evils they commit doing it, along with the evils they provoke by the same… or constant warmongering against their neighbors…I wouldn’t have such problem with Israel.

Vigilant says, “I find it intellectually dishonest to champion the cause of a set of nations who sit like jackals on the borders of a nation, ready to pounce at any opportunity, to destroy a country because they never thought it had a right to exist. I find it despicable that a nation with no hegemonic aspirations is faulted, while Iranian-funded Hezbollah and Hamas finds aid and comfort in the words of people such as yourself.”

Israel is not the virtuous country you would like us to believe they are. I champion any resistance to tyranny and oppression. The intellectual dishonesty is yours for not only failing to recognize that Hezbollah and Hamas were formed in direct response to Israeli invasions and occupations of their neighbors land and country, but also for intentional ignorance (not even a single response or mention to my bringing up) the Palestinian oppression which provokes such ‘terrorist’ attacks in the first place. Before you accuse others of being intellectually dishonest, I think you would do well to not be so ignorant of the big picture.

Vigilant says, “I find it a true indicator of evil when a nation programs its young to hate the innocent people of another nation.”

Innocent? Israel is responsible for the people who hate them. Those children growing up in Palestine, watching their fathers beaten by Israeli troops, living in slums as they are constantly watched by Israeli troops from towers… those children who have no will to live… they are being programmed to hate Israel. How can you point the finger to the Palestinians for programming their children to hate those of an ‘innocent’ nation without any regard for the actions of Israel that put them in such a situation? Talk about intellectual dishonesty.

Vigilant says, “I could go on, but I won’t. You won’t listen, you won’t change. You’ve made that abundantly clear in your postings.”

On the contrary, I listen very intently and I pick my battles.

Vigilant says, “P.S. …“Exactly what do you label yourself?”

Human… not humanist… just, human.

“Vigilant says, “P.S. …“Exactly what do you label yourself?”

“Human… not humanist… just, human.”

How about answering the question head on instead of employing some cutesy witticism?

Your initial question was addressed very specifically within a religious context. You failed to answer mine.

“It’s incomprehensible that someone would attempt to say Israel was built on the same principles that made this country great. Israel is a parliamentary democracy and doesn’t even have a written Constitution. You obviously know nothing of Israel’s political structure.”

And it’s obvious you don’t know how to answer a question. Instead, you employ the slimy Alinsky technique of dragging it off into the weeds with a foray into technicalities.

In point of fact, neither “parliamentary democracy” nor a lack of written constitution have ANYTHING to do with principles. They are the MECHANICS with which the principles are put into action. Israel adheres to the principles of our founding.

“Democracies can be just as tyrannical as any dictatorship.” No doubt about it; but Israel is not tyrannical. Islamic Republics, caliphates and monarchies are tyrannical.

Palestinians can and have obtained just verdicts in Israeli courts. Such a fair system does not exist in the courts of the PLO/Hamas regime.

Here are some facts to consider. Isreal controls the air ove Gaza because they bombed Gazas ONLY airport. Isreal controls Gazas water by making it illegal for Gaza fishermen to fish more then a mile offshore. In the last major operation Isreal used white phospurese which is a WAR CRIME. Isreal airstrikes target schools with CHILDREN STILL INSIDE. Other targets include apartment blocs,hospitals and police stations. Despite the destruction Isreal forbids concrete to be allows into Gaza other forbidden items include,wheelchairs,chocolate and toys. Isreal directes sewage into Gaza villages. Gaza is surronded by an ISREALI BUILT wall.Most Isreali buildings have shelters.No Gaza buildings have shelters. Isral drops leaflets telling Gazians not to talk to members of Hamas even though as the DEMOCRATICALY ELECTED goverment they are SURRONDED by Hamas. Gaza unce agreed to EVERY CONCIVABLE demand Isral made and Isreal STILL said no because they want ALL the land.Everything i just said was fact.Dont beleve me?LOOK IT UP!

“I think for the term anti-Semitism to stick; one would have to oppose Israel with the same zeal in which you support it: unconditionally. That is not my position.”

I firmly believe you misrepresent your position.

On every count and at every juncture you have had NOTHING good to say about Israel, but constantly and consistently rationalize, condone, excuse or outright support the actions of Hamas and Hezbollah terrorists and their PROVEN Iranian connections.

It is estimated that “militants possess 12,000 rockets, including more sophisticated weapons from Iran and from Libyan stockpiles plundered after the fall of Muammar Qaddafi’s regime there last year.”

So much for your earlier expressed half-truth that Iran has committed aggression against no one. Another technicality (sophistry and lawyerly semantics).

As Sherlock Holmes would say, when you discount and remove all possibilities, the single possibility left, no matter how incredible, is the answer. Say what you will, you have so consistently (and without exception) defended the terrorists against Israel that I am left with no choice but to conclude that you indeed do harbor anti-Semitic sentiments.

Go ahead, deny it. You have said nothing to dissuade me.

Expt that Arabs ae semites themselves.Therfore to be anti-semitic he would have to hate Arabs as well.

Vigilant says, “How about answering the question head on instead of employing some cutesy witticism?
Your initial question was addressed very specifically within a religious context. You failed to answer mine.”

I did answer it, actually. I don’t label myself, especially in a religious context… but I’ve been called an agnostic atheist, and I don’t argue with that.

Vigilant says, “And it’s obvious you don’t know how to answer a question.”

That comment was in response to you saying… “I find it incomprehensible that those allegedly rational persons would fail to recognize that Israel is the ONLY democratic nation in the area, prosperous and solvent because of its adoption of the same principles that made out country great.” – which wasn’t even a question.

Vigilant says, “Instead, you employ the slimy Alinsky technique of dragging it off into the weeds with a foray into technicalities.

In point of fact, neither “parliamentary democracy” nor a lack of written constitution have ANYTHING to do with principles. They are the MECHANICS with which the principles are put into action. Israel adheres to the principles of our founding.”

That isn’t off into the ‘fray’. Without the “mechanics” which put such principle into action, what those principles are… and their adherence to certain principle is widely up for debate – especially since you never identified which principle(s) you speak of or gave connection of such principles with the overall actions of Israel. “Israel adheres to the principles of our founding” is a vague statement which creates its own technicalities. In the ongoing illegal occupation of Palestinian lands, I think such vagueness is a direct result of being unable to so.
Drop the fascination with Alinsky.

In point of fact, the principles most notably surrounding our founding, and this discussion, was that of non-intervention, respect for property, liberty and justice for ALL, and against ideas of conquest and preemptive war. I think proving Israel violates, rather than adheres to, such principles is much easier.

Vigilant says, ““Democracies can be just as tyrannical as any dictatorship.” No doubt about it; but Israel is not tyrannical. Islamic Republics, caliphates and monarchies are tyrannical.”

Considering Israel is operated and guarded like a military base, and soldiers policing the streets, and being sole judge and jury at the great number of checkpoints, even as to if someone gets to go to work, or get medical care, or even be shot and killed… as Palestinians are kept with greater populations in condensed areas like cattle, and refer to their home as a prison… a person would have to be very ignorant to think Israel isn’t tyrannical. Even if a few managed to have “just” verdicts in Israeli courts, that doesn’t expunge them of all their other tyrannies. Could you cite the cases you speak of in which these verdicts were “just”?

I will respond in kind to the remainder of your comments, but unfortunately I have go for now.

It takes a particular type of individual to support terrorism; one who is so disconnected from reality and identification with the human condition that people become only numbers on a statistician’s sheet. Such are the liberals. Such are the blindly bigoted. Such are the sociopaths.

They’ll tell you “one man’s terrorist is another man’s freedom fighter.” Nothing could be further from the truth. Any person who has the indecency to premeditatively and cold bloodedly choose innocent noncombatants for victims has no right to be included in civilized society.

Any nation that sustains over 800 unprovoked terrorist rocket attacks against its people and property, that seeks to terminate these attacks by targeting the leadership of those criminal actions, is engaging in self defense, not aggression. Any nation that is forced into emplacing martial measures in its public life to prevent terrorist homicide bombings of its people is a nation seeking to survive, not a nation that gratuitously abridges the freedoms of its populace.

Conversely, any nation whose corrupt leaders have squandered billions in foreign aid on purchase of instruments of death, and have lined their pockets with the bulk of such “humanitarian” aid, deserves not to be included amongst the roll of free nations.

But, should your views surprise me, coming from one who hasn’t even pondered the profundities of existence itself to any length, i.e., from one who says he is an “agnostic atheist,” an oxymoron that indicates a philosophical confusion of Herculean proportions? You don’t even know what you stand for.

Vigilant says “I firmly believe you misrepresent your position.
Go ahead, deny it. You have said nothing to dissuade me.”

I’m not trying to dissuade you from thinking I am anti-Semitism. It’s typical of Zionists to attempt labeling anyone who argues against their insidiously unconditional support for Israel as anti-Semitist, as if it’s supposed to be a bad word that I should deny in the first place. However, I say I do not unconditionally oppose Israel… you can take it or leave it.

Btw… if you think I support actions of Hamas and Hezbollah, or other actions of violence against Israel, then you haven’t been listening to my arguments, or you’re simply unable to make any further argument to support you position, resorting to false red herring accusations of me supporting “terrorism”.

Vigilant says, “It is estimated that “militants possess 12,000 rockets, including more sophisticated weapons from Iran and from Libyan stockpiles plundered after the fall of Muammar Qaddafi’s regime there last year.”
So much for your earlier expressed half-truth that Iran has committed aggression against no one. Another technicality (sophistry and lawyerly semantics).”

No, my statement was completely true, which was Iran has not itself committed aggression against any other country under their current government. Selling weapons to someone doesn’t constitute committing the aggression yourself against whomever those weapons are used.

Yet this too is a typical red herring for the Zionist as my entire discussion and arguments here have particularly been about the Israeli/Palestinian conflict and the immorality of the actions of Israel against their neighbors to which all you can do is distract the issue rather than address it directly. You lost the argument, and for this I am called anti-Semitist and a supporter of “terrorist” groups.

Vigilant says, “It takes a particular type of individual to support terrorism; one who is so disconnected from reality and identification with the human condition that people become only numbers on a statistician’s sheet. Such are the liberals. Such are the blindly bigoted. Such are the sociopaths.
They’ll tell you “one man’s terrorist is another man’s freedom fighter.” Nothing could be further from the truth. Any person who has the indecency to premeditatively and cold bloodedly choose innocent noncombatants for victims has no right to be included in civilized society.”

Saying that one man’s’ terrorist is another man’s patriot it not a statement of support for the actions of violence that result in the deaths of innocent people. It’s a realization of perceptions on both sides in order to identify the objective causes of the conflict to reach viable solutions.

Vigilant says, “Any nation that sustains over 800 unprovoked terrorist rocket attacks against its people and property, that seeks to terminate these attacks by targeting the leadership of those criminal actions, is engaging in self defense, not aggression.”

But this is what you are still not acknowledging; Israel’s continued encroachment upon Palestinian lands IS the provocation. You would like us to believe that innocent little Israel is just attacked for no reason, but that is intellectually dishonest and simply incorrect.

Vigilant says, “But, should your views surprise me, coming from one who hasn’t even pondered the profundities of existence itself to any length, i.e., from one who says he is an “agnostic atheist,” an oxymoron that indicates a philosophical confusion of Herculean proportions? You don’t even know what you stand for.”

I know exactly the principles I stand for, as is perfectly clear throughout my postings here… I am very consistent, and I invite you to try and point out where I am not. On the contrary, I’ve pondered existence and the mysteries of the universe probably more than many others. As I said, I didn’t label myself agnostic atheist, others have, I simply said I don’t argue with it. And such term isn’t an oxymoron because it proposes that while the person may not believe in a big daddy in the sky, or some consciousness that permeates the whole of the universe or other definitions of God that are improvable by such definition – it also acknowledges that lack of evidence is not evidence against, and leaves the door open to possibilities as more knowledge and facts are presented.

But again, nice attempt at a red herring and attacking the person rather than the arguments.

Occupation 101 – the truth about the Israeli-Palestinian conflict
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AvcH8x1H_Ig&feature=related

“Yet this too is a typical red herring for the Zionist as my entire discussion and arguments here have particularly been about the Israeli/Palestinian conflict and the immorality of the actions of Israel against their neighbors to which all you can do is distract the issue rather than address it directly.”

“Distract the issue?” Iran’s enabling support for the parties hostile to Israel is not a distraction, it is a MAJOR factor. That this simple fact escapes you indicates an entirely myopic way of thinking. Its not distraction, it’s furnishing pertinent facts your one-sided argument does not want divulged.

“The immorality of the actions of Israel against their neighbors?”

Another failure to face the facts head on. Who ALWAYS INITIATES the rocket attacks on Israel? Who sends homicide bombers to Israel? Netanyahu has made it perfectly clear, as always: stop the rocket attacks and you can have peace.

Ehud Barack offered to satisfy 95% of Arafat’s demands and was turned down flat. Israel wants no war, the Palestinians do. That is so obvious it that you are not just myopic, you are blind.

And don’t go back to 1948. Thousands of rockets have been dispatched to Israel by Hamas terrorists since Israel pulled out of there in 2007. It was known at the time, and continues to be true, that the gesture on Israel’s part would not be met with a PLO/Hamas golden opportunity to make better lives for their people. Instead, they took their foreign aid and Iranian funding and turned Gaza into a base closer to Israel from which to fire missiles.

Vigilant says, “Distract the issue?” Iran’s enabling support for the parties hostile to Israel is not a distraction, it is a MAJOR factor. That this simple fact escapes you indicates an entirely myopic way of thinking. Its not distraction, it’s furnishing pertinent facts your one-sided argument does not want divulged.

Yes, it is a distraction since the entire scope of the discussion, and this article by Mr. Rolley, concerned Israeli attacks which killed innocent civilians as a “retaliation” for destroying Israeli buildings – not Iranian support for parties hostile to Israel. It is not a major factor in the argument that such “terrorist” attacks by Palestinians or Hamas and Hezbollah are provoked by the continued encroachment (aggression) of Israel upon Palestinian lands. A fact you deliberately refuse to acknowledge.

Vigilant says, “Another failure to face the facts head on. Who ALWAYS INITIATES the rocket attacks on Israel? Who sends homicide bombers to Israel?”

Perhaps the video I presented will shed some light on that for you.

Vigilant says, “Netanyahu has made it perfectly clear, as always: stop the rocket attacks and you can have peace.”

He is a liar and a warmonger. If rocket attacks stopped – which they have many times before – it is certain that such encroachment would continue. In essence, he wishes them to stop fighting back as their homes and land are taken from them. The one sided argument is yours.

Vigilant says, “Ehud Barack offered to satisfy 95% of Arafat’s demands and was turned down flat. Israel wants no war, the Palestinians do. That is so obvious it that you are not just myopic, you are blind.
And don’t go back to 1948. Thousands of rockets have been dispatched to Israel by Hamas terrorists since Israel pulled out of there in 2007. It was known at the time, and continues to be true, that the gesture on Israel’s part would not be met with a PLO/Hamas golden opportunity to make better lives for their people. Instead, they took their foreign aid and Iranian funding and turned Gaza into a base closer to Israel from which to fire missiles.”

No doubt there are stubborn people on both sides, and evils committed by both sides… but the ultimate continuing cause of the conflict – which undermines all attempts at a peaceful solution – is the unfettered continuation of that encroachment.

Hezbollah’s involvement in terrorism against Israel has nothing but the purest of motives, according to TML.

You might want to check out http://personalliberty.com/2012/11/19/congressional-report-hezbollah-iran-have-mexican-cartel-ties/

“United in their dedication to the destruction of Israel, Iran has helped Hezbollah grow from a small group of untrained guerrillas into what is arguably the most highly trained, organized and equipped terrorist organization in the world. In return, Hezbollah has served as an ideal proxy for Iranian military force – particularly against Israel – which affords Iran plausible deniability diplomatically. Hence wherever Hezbollah is entrenched, Iran will be as well and vice-versa.”

Don’t box in your argument by hiding behind the semantics of claiming that Iran has not been guilty of aggression. You know and I know that Iran doesn’t give a rat’s a$$ about the “nobility” of the Palestinian cause, but uses it solely to rain their destruction upon the Israeli people.

And you might, in the wake of your lack of balance and fairness, at least once admit that the “crime” of displacing persons is not morally equivalent to blowing up innocent folks going about their business. To draw such an analogy with such overt equanimity is offensive to all decent people.

That you could, in any way, even hint that there’s some moral justification for terrorism is a hallmark of the left. “The end justifies the means.” In reference to such acts, the words “unconscionable,” horrific,” cowardly,” and “despicable” don’t even enter into you lexicon, to your everlasting discredit.

Go ahead, have the final words on this subject. I’ll engage no longer in argument with someone for whom I have no personal respect.

You haven’t been paying attention, Brenda Black.

Over 150 rockets dispatched by Hamas to kill people and destroy real estate has something to do with it.

That tally is now up to over 500 rockets.