First Dave I am Jeremy not flashman. Second, if Mr. Livingston “doesn’t advocate messing in other countries’ business?” why would he say things like “in preparation for the coming assault on Iran” or “There will be an attack on Iran” or most interestingly “war with Iran is inevitable”. Perhaps instead of bemoaning the supposed inevitability of war with Iran perhaps Mr. Livingston could point out the absurdidity of believing Iran is a threat to our nation and perhaps undertsand that President Obama has no intention of going to war with them. Since Mr. Livingston appears instead to be saying f it its going to happen anyway I believe he might as well be supporting war.

Nice Double-Speak, Flashman.
Fortunately, Bob’s article is right there for anybody to read, and he says nothing in it to lead people to believe that he supports war against Iran.
And if there is any doubt how Bob thinks about Iran, here is more proof:
http://personalliberty.com/2012/02/27/on-iran-government-and-doublethink/

And Jeremy, you can deny being Flashman all you want, but here is the evidence:
http://personalliberty.com/2011/05/16/what-now/#comment-341969

Dave if Mr. Livingston opposes war he should do some thing to stop it instead of just throwing up his hands and giving up. Its not double speak its reality. Mr. Livingston is speaking against war with Iran. But at the same time he is bemoaning how nothing can be done to stop it. Basically he is saying I do not want this but I am going to just give up and let it happen. He sees it happening and does nothing to stop it. He may not be cheering it on but he might as well.

With all due respect Dave someone else saying I am flashman does not make me flashman. A large number of people can say the sky is green but that does not make it so. The sky is blue and I am not flashman or anyone other than Jeremy Leochner.

The sign of a chronic liar. You catch them red-handed and they still try to lie their way out of it.
You, Flashman, are a chronic liar.

Yes. If some one calls someone a liar they are automatically a liar. And if they attempt to point out that they are not a liar that is yet more evidence that they are a liar. Mr. Livingston says I am flashman and instantly that makes me flashman. With respect Dave if Mr. Livingston said you were flashman would that make you flashman. If I Dave were to start accusing you of pretending to be some one else would you not point out I am wrong. I am not a liar. I am Jeremy Leochner. No amount of repeating can change realty. I never came on this site as flashman or anyone other than Jeremy Leochner. You and others came up with that story because apparently my views are so extreme you would rather denounce me as a liar then debate me.

” Iran is voluntarily part of the treaty which agrees not to develop nuclear weapons and agrees to IAEA inspection.”

(1) Wow, Iran’s a signatory to the NPT! I guess we just better take their word for it, eh, TML? We all know that no nation has ever broken its treaty commitments. Babe in the woods thou art.

If you think IAEA issues are nonexistent, then you better read their latest report at http://www.iaea.org/Publications/Documents/Board/2012/gov2012-37.pdf

Oh, and while you’re at it, you might want to check the United Nations Security Council resolutions on Iran: 1696 (2006); 1737 (2006); 1747 (2007); 1803 (2008); 1835 (2008); and 1929 (2010).

Open your eyes, oh blind one. That light at the end of the tunnel is a train coming right at you.

Vigilant says — “Open your eyes, oh blind one. That light at the end of the tunnel is a train coming right at you”.
More ad hominem remarks. More manipulation.
I believe TML makes a better (and more civil) case than you, Vigilant.

Your comments don’t surprise me a bit. For one who can be as uncivil as the worst, for one who answers comments not directed at himself, for one who has laughably called me a liberal or one who “argues like a liberal,” for one who denies that Kate8 is the real poster because she happens to disagree with you, and for one who priggishly refuses to recognize facts when presented via original source socuments, don’t presume to school me or anyone else on the ad hominem nature of your past postings, son.

As for civility, talk sbout the pot calling the kettle black! Physician, heal thyself.

My ad hominem attacks are reserved solely for those who draw first blood. You are typically in the latter group, Vigilant. With all your blustering about how right you are, one would think that you wouldn’t need to stoop so low as to make all the personal attacks you make. That is a sure sign that you really aren’t confident at all.

DaveH says:
May 16, 2011 at 4:01 pm

“Have you ever noticed how chronic liars will try to disparage their accusors in an attempt to divert attention from their lying?”

Yes, indeed, Dave, I have noticed that.

DaveH says, “My ad hominem attacks are reserved solely for those who draw first blood.”

Bad behavior excuses bad behavior, Dave? Seems to me I’ve heard that argument from you before.

Take their word for it? The entire point of the NPT is not about taking their word for it else there wouldn’t be the inspection requirement.

BTW, I’ve read all of that…. I believe I am the one who gave you the link to the home page that you now give to me. It would be unrealistic to assume that I have not read and studied the documents from the links I provide.

Babe in the woods? Blind one?
Hardly… and shows your position, as I said, is merely speculation based on fear, and not any real evidence.

Israel has had some capability since the late 70s, early 80s. Jonathan Pollard is responsible for some information and is currently incarcerated {Julius and Ethel Rosenberg had sentence of death executed). There is also some belief that the deKlerk government transferred South African devices to Israel.

“And if we consider that Iran has no history under their current government of being an aggressor, or invading or attacking other countries… ”

And you accuse ME of using no logic or facts? That statement is so naive as to be ridiculous. Iran’s recent history is more than eloquent testimony to its meddling in the world’s affairs even far outside its borders. I suppose you’ve never heard of Hezbollah? Islamic Jihad? Hamas? All of them are in league with Iran.

Iran is and has been a WELL KNOWN exporter and funder of terrorist acts throughout the world. See http://www.worldthreats.com/?cat=17 if you have any doubts about that.

And then, unbelievably, “we can conclude that the puppet state of Saudi’s [sic] are [sic] more warmongering than Iran.” Now that’s a laugh! Their aspirations are to DEFEND their Sunni country from the Shiite radicalism of the Iranians. And not just Saudi Arabia. Another WELL KNOWN “secret” is the plethora of “moderate” Islamic countries on the M.E. that perceive Irani’s hegemonic aims as a direct threat to their existence. They, like Saudi Arabia, are VERY concerned about Iran developing a nuclear weapons capability.

“Iran has openly said they are not interested in obtaining Nuclear weapons, while giving a compelling reason; and cooperating with IAEA inspections.”

So said North Korea relative to nuclear intentions, so said Adolph Hitler at Munich regarding further claims.

TML, you seem to have made it your petty and vengeful mission to take virtually every sentence I write and attempt (unsuccessfully) to take exception to it. All this merely because I bested you in argument in the past.

Drop your obssession, son; it only makes you look bad.

Vigilant says — “TML, you seem to have made it your petty and vengeful mission to take virtually every sentence I write and attempt (unsuccessfully) to take exception to it. All this merely because I bested you in argument in the past.
Drop your obssession, son; it only makes you look bad”.

Typical manipulative tricks used by Vigilant when his back is against the wall.

DaveH has an obssession with the word “manipulative.” It’s a key word in the Alinsky lexicon.

Interesting that he accuses me of ad hominems and then proceeds to effect the same. You’re taking the very low road of making statements that don’t address the factual nature of my assertions, but work overtime on pure insults. No problem, I’ve become accustomed to your “manipulative tricks.”

That, sir, is the sign of intellectual poverty.

Typical Vigilant comment.

And typically correct, as always.

TML says “And if we consider that Iran has no history under their current government of being an aggressor, or invading or attacking other countries… ”

Vigilant says, “That statement is so naive as to be ridiculous.”

Not at all… it’s TRUE. One need only reference history to see that.

Vigilant says, “Iran’s recent history is more than eloquent testimony to its meddling in the world’s affairs even far outside its borders. I suppose you’ve never heard of Hezbollah? Islamic Jihad? Hamas? All of them are in league with Iran.”

Hezbollah was formed in direct response to the illegal invasion of Lebanon. Israel was the terrorists.
Hamas was formed in response to Israel’s illegal encroachment of Palestinian lands that continues to this day, and are a Sunni group – unlikely that Iran (Shi’a) would support them.
Islamic Jihad is more of a resistence movement throughout the Muslim nations. But ‘the’ group is the same as Hezbollah known for its activities in the 1980s during the Lebanese Civil War (Israeli invasion) – so that’s rather redundant.

Vigilant says, “Iran is and has been a WELL KNOWN exporter and funder of terrorist acts throughout the world. See http://www.worldthreats.com/?cat=17 if you have any doubts about that.”

No doubt, but that doesn’t invalidate my statement that Iran has not itself aggressed against another country in its entire history of the current government. Its only war was against the illegal invasion by Iraq – to which we helped fund Iraq.

I have no doubt they have funded what to them would be patriots (“terrorists” to you). And I have no doubt that we have funded the truly morally incomprehensible positions as I just pointed out with Iraq – which came back to bite us in the cheeks didn’t it? No, the true terrorists are those like you which support interventions and warring with the entire Middle East merely out of fear and misguided religious beliefs.

Vigilant says, “Now that’s a laugh! Their aspirations are to DEFEND their Sunni country from the Shiite radicalism of the Iranians.”

So now you argue that Sunni Muslims are our friends? Not THAT is a laugh. Look at your statement and apply that also to Iran. It works both ways.

Vigilant says, “So said North Korea relative to nuclear intentions, so said Adolph Hitler at Munich regarding further claims.”

Interestingly, North Korea withdrew from the NPT when they decided they really wanted nuclear weapons. Iran can do the same if they wanted them, as they have the right to do… the same as Israel is not part of the treaty. Oh, but you ‘trust’ Israel right? Laughable.

Vigilant says, “TML, you seem to have made it your petty and vengeful mission to take virtually every sentence I write and attempt (unsuccessfully) to take exception to it.”

Not at all… I’ve done the same for many commenters here. Interesting statement coming from someone who just responded to every single comment I’ve made here, even when my comment wasn’t directed at you.

Vigilant says, “All this merely because I bested you in argument in the past”

In your dreams

“No, the true terrorists are those like you which support interventions and warring with the entire Middle East merely out of fear and misguided religious beliefs.”

My, my, how you revel in putting words in peoples’ mouths, sonny!

My arguments have revolved around the Iranian fomentation of trouble in the world, their secrecy and deception regarding their nuclear ambitions, and the bellicose statements that invariably accompany those

NO Muslim nation in the area trusts Iran. NO Muslim nation in the area has reason to fear Israel except Iran. NO Muslim nation with peaceful intent has ever had to fear Israel. THEY know it, but that fact has eluded you in your blind hatred of Israel. And that, for sure, is the key to your now disclosed philosophy. You should have tipped your hand sooner.

I “support interventions and warring with the entire Middle East?” From whence do you deduce that? When and where on this panel have you EVER seen me support interventions in Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, Egypt or Syria? Look as hard as you wish, you’ll come up empty-handed. I know that may be confusing to someone like yourself who sees everything in the M.E. through some skewed and myopic prism as an outgrowth of imagined Israeli aggression.

“…merely out of fear and misguided religious beliefs?” As with Israel, I have no fear of any nation with peaceful intentions, nor have I any reason to.

As for fear, you bet your sweet backside that’s part of it. Only the Pollyanna optimist would turn his/her back on the dangers inherent in nuclear proliferation, especially amongst nations with fanatics in charge. If all men were angels, there would be no need of fear and no need for politics or even governments.

You haven’t a clue as to my religious beliefs, liar, so don’t say you do. I am neither Christian nor Jew.

Yes, you have told me before that you are not Christian, remember? But I find that interesting coming from someone who would think I hate Israel merely because I dare point out some facts about them. I have no hatred toward Israel, but you are clueless and blind to think Israeli aggression is imagined. I just showed how the two instances in which the so called terrorist organizations you gave were formed in direct response to such aggression, and this is not a thing of the past as they continue encroachment of Palestinian lands. Yet you say, “No Muslim nation with in the area has reason to fear Israel” and “No Muslim nation with peaceful intent has ever had to fear Israel” – and this is clearly untrue.

My arguments have revolved around dispelling those ideas of ‘Iranian fomentation of trouble in the world’ and that preparation for assault on the country is unwarranted, while showing that Israel (those leading the charge at Iran) is more secretive, more deceptive regarding nuclear ambitions, and makes the same kind of statements. Don’t tell me that Israel has peaceful intentions when they kill a young American girl under a bulldozer because they were literally pushing Palestinians off their rightful land. But you go ahead and blindly trust Israel if you want.

On the other hand I have pointed out that Iran has no history of aggressing, invading, or attacking another country to which the best response you come up with is “how naïve”.

Vigilant says, “I “support interventions and warring with the entire Middle East?” From whence do you deduce that? When and where on this panel have you EVER seen me support interventions in Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, Egypt or Syria? Look as hard as you wish, you’ll come up empty-handed.”

Isn’t that what you are doing here and now? Didn’t you call Iran a “dire threat”? Do you not support imperialist policies such as “peace through strength”? Are you saying, right now, that you do not support preparing assault on Iran? Because it seems to me you have been trying to give reasons to support that.

Vigilant says, “As for fear, you bet your sweet backside that’s part of it. Only the Pollyanna optimist would turn his/her back on the dangers inherent in nuclear proliferation, especially amongst nations with fanatics in charge.”

With all the links I have provided, and steered the conversation to such international agreements; do you really think I have turned my back on the dangers inherent in nuclear proliferation? International agreements are paramount in addressing the dangers of nuclear proliferation, yet, you dismiss any conformance to such treaty by Iran with nothing but speculation, based on fear alone, to say condescendingly that, “no country has ever broke its treaty”. All this while claiming I hate Israel merely because I point out that they are 1 of only 4 countries not party to the treaty? Your argument amounts only to pessimism.

Sorry to say, but it isn’t the CITIZENS of Iran we have to fear. The leadership is where the problems are, and too much of that is controlled, not by the elected president, but by a few bigshots in a few Islamic temples. These are the group that tells the Iranian president and congress what laws to pass and what laws will NOT be allowed. As far as needing full blown nuclear weapons to do a LOT of damage, not really, A good bit of medical or research grade uranium packed around a few pounds of HE would make a very nasty weapon that would deny access to a fair sized area for a lot longer than most of us will be alive.

br you just can not go there we had all the oil feilds after ww2 gave them back we won all the oil fields in iraq afglanistan qwaka an we gave them back better than they were. we rebuild france gerrany japan better than they were. we have stole nothing . keep drinking the cool aid. if we stomp the [expletive deleted] out of iran it will be returned better. than it was we have stole no oil an no one has ever been made to pay us back. in whos book idoes that make us the bad guy? only yours

According to the people in the know the USA has more oil in our ground than any country but barack hussein obama & his regulations on oil companies they can’t drill for it . That includes the EPA too.

Iranians are Aryan ! not semitic like the arbs and jews .

Roger, I couldn’t agree with you more. There is nothing more dangerous than ignorant or misinformed people who think they they have all the answers. Not meaning to pick on any one person here, but jeez, if people haven’t seen the political trends taking place, particularly the rapid escalation since Reagan left office, they have to be blind as a bat.

This has nothing to do with parties, since our two major parties are both in this as thick as thieves, as I’m confident that you, at least, are already aware.

Roger, you had better do some studying, instead of swallowing whole all the junk being passed on to you. Even better, actually WATCH the news, as this is a longstanding affair that even Fox has halfway right. Iran is, and has been for quite some time, the chief supporter of a number of the larger terrorist organizations, Al Quaida and Hezbollah being only a couple of them.

Roger,
You accuse John Fobes of a complete lack of understanding of the worlds political standing yet you offer no “nuggets” of your superior knowledge….just insults…..are you sure you are not a liberal instead of a libertarian???

Surely Chester you don’t really think that Iran is the only supporter of terrorist organizations?
Britain and the US, or I should say the Governments and Crony Capitalists of Britain and the US, have been supporting terror throughout the last hundred years in order to keep their financial gains. Read this book and awaken to reality:
http://library.mises.org/books/John%20V%20Denson/A%20Century%20of%20War%20Lincoln,%20Wilson%20and%20Roosevelt.pdf

USA! USA! USA!
Like a bunch of mindless drones.
http://www.iranchamber.com/history/coup53/coup53p1.php

In 2000 Iraq began selling its oil in euros.
In 2006 Syria switched all of the state’s foreign currency transactions to euros from dollars.
In 2009 Iran completely stopped conducting oil transactions in U.S. dollars.
In 2011 Libyan Leader Ghadafi decided to to pursue a gold standard and reject dollars for oil payments.
And you wonder why the US Government involves us in these countries? Can you say Bankers?

Roger, if you are in quest of ignorance then you need to look no further than having a good look into a mirror. I have been and will always be ready and willing to defend my country.andIf need be. to die in defense of my country. Are you willing to do the same?
I recommend that you and your pathological supporting liberals friends in mental illness add a straight jacket to your wardrobes, go back on your medication and have a change of address to a funny farm. I can promise that none of my comments were made in fear. Its a real shame that your strong propensity for stupidity is not an offense that one could be prosecuted for. Did you exhaust your intellectual acumen by making insults and offering no sound arguments. Finally. In response to your cohort supporters.If you believe that Iran does not have nuclear ambitions then will also believe that getting wet in the rain is just a coincidence.
John Fobes

Do you know the difference between a Defender, John, and an Aggressor?

The answer to your question is an obvious “yes”and if you would like to engage in edifying discussion, please be a little less vague. I think you must be referring to my reply to Roger our northern liberal. If this the case, then you should review the content of his reply to my very first post that I have ever made on this blog site. He made a plethora of vicious insults that were unprovoked. Now, if I am zeroed in on your reason then be less vague. If you are making reference to the long standing animosity of Iran’s undeclared war against the United States, then I will elaborate. Iran engages in forgery of our currency. Iran initiates more terrorist attacks than any country on this planet. Most of these acts of terror are against the United States. Iran is in the process of making their first nuclear weapon since North Korea was unable to deliver one to them. Yes this is a not widely fact but we should not be a nave when identifying Iran’s intent for hostilities. Ignoring has not worked, sanctions only hurt Iran’s citizens and have not deterred Iran’s leadership. Iran has repeatedly stated that they would erase Israel from the map. Only one or maybe two weapons would do that. There would be no recovery after the fact. Are willing to wait until this evil act is over. Frankly , I am much more concerned about a dirty bomb. That could become a reality in the near future. We should let Iran know in uncertain terms that we mean business. Preemptive action is a form of defense.

I asked that question, John, because it looks to me like you’re one of those who will buy whatever the administration sells as an excuse to attack others who have not attacked us. If we applied the Preemptive Strike logic to everyday America, there wouldn’t be many people left alive.
Even if you could provide references (which I haven’t seen) to your various claims, they still would not come close to the kind of rigorous evidence that must be provided to a court of law before somebody can be deprived of life or property. And you might answer that with — But this is War, to which I would have to say — “Sure, whatever you say”.
I will repeat the link which I have already posted twice on this board, so you have no excuses for not reading it:
http://library.mises.org/books/John%20V%20Denson/A%20Century%20of%20War%20Lincoln,%20Wilson%20and%20Roosevelt.pdf

I find your comment offensive and simple minded. First as a Marine I followed orders to the T. Secondly as a civilian, I follow nothing without clear thought and critical examination. You are going off in an extreme nonsensical tangent when equating rules of engagement with every day American life. The comparison is extremely nonsensical. You most be totally blind to the fact that Iranian rulers have been engaging in an undeclared war since 1979. I carefully examined your link. It addresses warfare prior to the advent of modern nuclear weapons. The possibility of nuclear war is a very serious game changer.

John is far from correct. He’s driven by fear to only peculate and ignores the truth.
Sorry Vig… but if Iran isn’t cooperating with inspector access to the countries key nuclear facilities, then how can anyone say they have developed the infrastructure to produce and enrich uranium above 20% used in most medical research reactors? Talk about misinformed. Yes, let’s read the writing on the wall, and use our heads, shall we?

http://www.iaea.org/newscenter/focus/iaeairan/index.shtml

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/iran/9048556/IAEA-nuclear-inspection-gets-under-way-in-Iran.html

http://www.isisnucleariran.org/brief/detail/confirmation-of-advanced-centrifuge-installation/

TML says, “Sorry Vig… but if Iran isn’t cooperating with inspector access to the countries key nuclear facilities, then how can anyone say they have developed the infrastructure to produce and enrich uranium above 20% used in most medical research reactors?”

Yes, TML, let’s indeed talk about the misinformed. The infrastructure was in place long before the IAEA inspections were stopped.

Would you care to answer, or do you prefer the DaveH/Alinsky technique of attacking the messenger?

Vigilant says, “The infrastructure was in place long before the IAEA inspections were stopped.
Would you care to answer, or do you prefer the DaveH/Alinsky technique of attacking the messenger?”

In reference to my post in which you are responding, could you clarify what you’re talking about, and actually try making a point, regarding the infrastructure being in place long before IAEA inspection ‘stopped’?

I clearly was attacking your argument, and not “the messenger” as you are doing.

If you mean in general, I was very busy all weekend and this is the first I’ve had a chance to respond.

TML says, “if Iran isn’t cooperating with inspector access to the countries key nuclear facilities, then how can anyone say they have developed the infrastructure to produce and enrich uranium above 20% used in most medical research reactors?”

Vigilant says, “The infrastructure was in place long before the IAEA inspections were stopped.”

After closer consideration, I think I understand the crux of your statement, and I think the connection you failed to make is; Iran openly (voluntarily) announced their advancement in centrifuge installation, which no doubt triggered a need for inspection. And we witness this by the voluntary announcement by Iran being July 2011, and IAEA inspection underway in January of 2012.

Inspections; if they are to stop, would have everything to do with the wrongful sanctions being pressed on Iran which effects the people of that state. Exactly how long do you expect them to take the bully picking on them before they turn around and clock the poor bastard? And I bet that’s exactly what people like you are counting on.

DaveH,

I’ve watched over the weeks at your tirades about conspiracy theories, and how both parties are corrupt to the core, and in bed with the industrial military complex elites, blah blah blah. Mahmoud Ahmadinejad has on numerous occasions, picked up by ALL news media everywhere that Israel should be wiped off the map. Now…I don’t know what that means in YOUR world, but in mine, I take the threat seriously. And the fact that you don’t, tells me that somehow you have perhaps become unhinged with reality of this world.

Concerning your comment about “thinking people” not judging people before they have the facts…It’s a damned good thing the U.S. entered WW II when they did, because although Nazi Germany had done nothing to us directly, I believe had we not entered that conflict we’d be in a world of hurt right now. I’m really quite surprised that you actually are challenging me on this point, you as a “thinking person” have come up with your world view, yet you seem to mock mine. Riiiight. Hyperbole much? Also, I would point out the hypocrisy, it’s okay for YOU as a thinking person to make judgements about people, but not okay if I do it.

Lastly…it was ghastly that the U.S. used nuclear warheads against Japan at Hiroshima, and Nagasaki, but after the Pearl Harbor attack, I believe we became interested in ENDING that war, and end it, it did. But I will not challenge your point about being involved in too many fronts around the world. I believe the rationale for so doing (at least according to the politicians) is that the world has become a very dangerous place, a point that I acknowledge and do NOT dispute.

This is a good forum for us to debate, and disagree, as long as we don’t name call and are somewhat respectful. It would be great if we’d all remember that.

Paul says — “I’ve watched over the weeks at your tirades about conspiracy theories, and how both parties are corrupt to the core, and in bed with the industrial military complex elites, blah blah blah”.
What tirades? What Conspiracy Theories? Your comment is pure hyperbole, Paul. And you expect people to lend your comment any credibility?

Paul says — “Concerning your comment about “thinking people” not judging people before they have the facts…It’s a damned good thing the U.S. entered WW II when they did, because although Nazi Germany had done nothing to us directly, I believe had we not entered that conflict we’d be in a world of hurt right now”.
I said “thinking person”, Paul, not “thinking people”. You can’t even get my quote right. And “thinking person” was in quotes because it was a reflection of the phrase you used in your previous comment.
You can “believe” all you want, but the evidence points very strongly to the fact that if the US has not entered either WWI or WWII there would have been millions of lives spared and the majority of those being innocent civilians.
If you really wanted to seek truth (I doubt it), you could read this book:
http://library.mises.org/books/John%20V%20Denson/A%20Century%20of%20War%20Lincoln,%20Wilson%20and%20Roosevelt.pdf

But rest assured, other people will read it, and that’s all I care about.

Dave H you are right ! if Germany had won WW2 Europe today would not me the multicultural crap pit is is today , and the middle east would be peaceful because there would be no israel .

DaveH; if you ad Jimmy the Geek are such totalitarian lovers your dreams will come true if BO gets re-elected. Hope you enjoy it. The EU is just Hitler’s dream without the Panzers. We can all see how well that’s working out.

Roger, I firmly agree with you. And I do believe his actions are quite deliberate. Hussein Obama is the epitome of division, which undoubtedly is the WORST of America.

DaveH, maybe you should MOVE to Iran. At least there you wouldn’t have to worry about SUPPORTING Israel.

Better read the Bible.DON’T HAVE TO BE A CHRISTIAN. IT IS WHAT GOD SAID.

Chester,
I’m sorry that you went to public school. Perhaps you could get somebody to read my comment for you.

For Sharon:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=88GTUXvp-50

North Mexico, baby….

So much for intelligent discourse. First strike of the day (personal attacks) – Conservatives!

If alex lived in north Mexico the cartels would have whacked him.

Dave, you can pull that same hat down over RINO ears.

Those are just the other side of the same Progressive Coin, Boyscout — The NeoConservative Progressives:
http://mises.org/daily/1259

…or Republicans. Dave loves code (rino) and seldom if ever says REPUBLICANS as most won’t when they are called out.

Unlike you, Eddie, I make an effort to use precise English.
Not all Republicans are Neoconservative Progressives, and even some Democrats fit that description.

No JTB that is Romney’s motto!

His son is not doing jack cit for this country ! he is doing what isreal wants done .

That is just about the military might that Obama wants for the U.S. military.

Actually, that is the goal of the UN and Agenda21, to eventually cripple the US Navy, Army, AIr Force, and Marine Corp so that the US will eventually have forced service as UN troops. So, all you jarheads out there who think your elite organization will stay intact, forget about it, you people, all of the US military is being played like a cheap violin.

From the UN’s own Agenda21 material, “Agenda 21 proposes an array of actions which are intended to be implemented by every person on earth…it calls for specific changes in the activities of all people…Effective execution of Agenda 21 will require a profound reorientation of all humans, unlike anything the world has ever experienced.”

They are using the US military to clear out pockets of globalist resistance across the globe, nothing more. It has nothing to do with Al Qaeda or even preserving democracy or our way of life. As Kissinger had pointedly stated to Alexander Haig, military men
were dumb, stupid animals to be used as pawns for foreign policy. That is what the people who REALLY run our government think of those who shed their blood believing they are doing good. I hope, when these guys return home, they are able to fathom that level of deceit and remember who is responsible.

SteeeeRike 2!

Here you go, Karolyn, strike 3. You are a moron. Now, feel better?

Karolyn: Hope all is well with you. Keep standing up for what you believe in. There is a lot of hate at this moment in time. Seems like some people get off on calling other people names. Makes them feel good, I guess. Makes them feel important. Now they will call me names, so be it.

Alex, you, Karolyn and eddie47d should hook up and go haunt some other site. Three blind mice; apologies to mice.

Sometimes is just easier to call B.S.

Sailor only proves that his first loyalty is to Israel and not to the USA.

If Bush cared about the USA he would have stayed out of Iraq. If Romney cared about the USA he wouldn’t be pushing for war in Iran.

Oil and Money, Thor. Mostly money:
http://2012patriot.wordpress.com/2011/04/28/new-libyan-gold-dinar/

It’s too bad so many good people are so easy to fool. But the Leaders and their Crony Capitalists love you.

This is nothing new, by the way. The Bankers have been using Government to protect their fraudulent activities at the expense of the people since our Country began:
http://mises.org/Books/historyofmoney.pdf

There is no plausible reason to place troops in a position to attack Iran.

Speculation that Terhan has pulled the strings of terrorism is a false narrative burned into the American psyche by the news show Nightline’s 444 day coverage of the Hostage Crisis. A revolution which came as the direct result of US overthrow of their democratically elected Prime Minister to put the oppressive Shah back in power – for reasons of OIL. It is true that one man’s terrorist is another man’s patriot. I guess it all depends on the context of perspective.

And please explain to me when we ever ‘left Iran alone’. As I understand it, after the Iranian revolution, we supplied Iraq with arms to assist their illegal invasion of Iran for 8 years. Please explain to me where we ever tried ‘leaving them alone’.

Btw… I doubt anyone is a pundit of “isolationism” as much as they are “non-intervention”.

TML founders once again with “Speculation that Terhan [sic] has pulled the strings of terrorism is a false narrative burned into the American psyche by the news show Nightline’s 444 day coverage of the Hostage Crisis. A revolution which came as the direct result of US overthrow of their democratically elected Prime Minister to put the oppressive Shah back in power – for reasons of OIL.”

News flash for you: this is 2012, not 1979. Iran’s heavy hand in world terrorism TODAY has nothing to do with media coverage of the hostage crisis 33 years ago. Had you taken the time to read http://www.worldthreats.com/?cat=17 you would have known this.

BTW, that “democratically elected Prime Minister” you mentioned was guilty of nationalizing the oil industry in Iran, stealing billions from BP and others. Hitler was democratically elected to his first government position as well.

If you wish to present an air of legitimacy, study the history books.

Vigilant says, “News flash for you: this is 2012, not 1979. Iran’s heavy hand in world terrorism TODAY has nothing to do with media coverage of the hostage crisis 33 years ago. Had you taken the time to read http://www.worldthreats.com/?cat=17 you would have known this.”

It has everything to do with the mindset of Americans, as even you have shown by acceptance that Saudi Arabia only wants nuclear capability for defense against the evil Iran, while promoting Iran wants nuclear weapons (even though they say otherwise) merely to turn Israel into a glass parking lot. It’s engrained into your head without reason. Most of the 9/11 attackers were Saudi’s and you would support them with comments such as this earlier? – “Their aspirations are to DEFEND their Sunni country from the Shiite radicalism of the Iranians… …They, like Saudi Arabia, are VERY concerned about Iran developing a nuclear weapons capability” – Need to wake up and get a grip on reality, ‘son’.

Vigilant says, “BTW, that “democratically elected Prime Minister” you mentioned was guilty of nationalizing the oil industry in Iran, stealing billions from BP and others. Hitler was democratically elected to his first government position as well.”

There is legitimacy in what I’m saying. It’s all a matter of perspective on some things. Mosaddegh can hardly be compared to Hitler… I know you like to use such a scenario to strike fear into someone to think your argument is then valid, but you’re wrong.

“Guilty” of nationalizing the oil? Stealing billions from Oil Corporations by taking back their own oil, on their own land? Clearly this is one of the perceptual things we will not see eye to eye on, as I believe they had the right to do so.

You know we could just buy the oil. With the deliberate devaluation of the dollar who wants the dollar any more. Iran no longer excepts the dollar in the purchase of oil. China and Iran have worked out an agreement to exchange infrastructure for oil. If oil is the reason for the attack as some suggest do you really think China will just watch? Israel is worth defending and we will. The real problem is How do we deal with Iran? And Bush Senior destroyed our arsenal of neutron bombs. What was he thinking?

Hardly, BOTH Obama and Romney are voluntary Bilderberg attendees and, in case you people haven’t been doing your homework, that means they both march to the same globalist drum; like the Bonanno and Gambino families competing for the same turf, but operating with the same principles.

While the majority of armchair potatoheads were still rooting for these two marionettes, the Third Party debates on RT gave those viewers a taste of what the real issues are. It’s unfortunate that none of them really have a chance, but it doesn’t deflate the level of their debate. Contrary to the staged debate by these two narcissists, the Third Party debates were entirely civil and especially informative. Obama and Romney both agree to attack Iran, which is exactly what the globalists want, while all the Third Party Candidates were in opposition. Apparently the latter actually understand our Constitution and respect other peoples’ sovereignty.

Thus, in two weeks time, we will ALL lose to the globalists and each side can dig their heels in the sand and proclaim that only their candidate can turn this country around. As long as Rockefeller is still picking who will be the Democrat candidate AND the Republican candidate, our economy will only be further intentionally eviscerated. If anyone heard the debates on RT, they’d know of what I speak; the American public has been duped into drooling over a dog and pony show.

But while everyone is sleeping tonight, ask yourselves which one of your two favorite candidates has a history of denouncing NAFTA. NAFTA was globalism’s foot getting stuck in our doorway; Perot saw that one coming a mile away.

That well be a good day ! no more iserhell !

Yeah, but let’s not forget that the administration of Bush the Dolt had its own cast of characters; Cheney, Rumsfeld, Rice, Ashcroft, Micheal (Skeletor) Chertoff, and that list goes on as well.

When the administrations change and nothing else changes, people should at least be asking themselves, WTF? But few do. Instead, they keep insisting that their favorite party is capable of pulling us out of this mess …… if it weren’t for the malicious legislation put forth by that OTHER party.

Jimmy Carter, as much as I had though him to be more of a humanitarian than many of the others, turned out to be a flaming early globalist and had packed his administration with 400 some odd members of the Trilateral Commission, at David Rockefeller’s suggestion, of course.

So, while I completely agree with your assessment of this administration, I think it wise to look at the larger picture.