I watched both debates and Romney won the first and Obama won the second. No one has to lie about that fact.

Eddie.
ditto. I agree with you. Romney won the first one, big time, but Obama definitely won this one. I would score it 60 to 40. Romney had his memorized points and was a little too eager to use them. When he looked for a place to use them, he blew it. He put his foot in his mouth a few times. That took the wind out of his sails. the women binder and Speech in the Rose Garden part, killed him.

Here is the entire debate for those who would like to make up their own minds:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QEpCrcMF5Ps

Don’t forget, it was the neighborhood “reinvestment act” or affordable housing or affordable health care or whatever other “affordable progressive” program these creatures come up with. This is where all the problem’s lie. We never could nor will we be able to “afford” their programs. Get an education and go out and get yourself a job. If you didn’t build it, you have no one else but yourself to blame. Period! Out with all progressives.

It was Wall Street Speculators and Banksters who drove up the housing market which gave them a false pricing. How did those greedy Capitalist work out for you? They keep making things unaffordable for the Middle Class yet you want more. You seem to have your own devils you like to sleep with Warrior.

Eddie says — “It was Wall Street Speculators and Banksters”.
No, it was Government (including it’s Federal Reserve) meddling in the Marketplace that drove up the prices.
But feel free to tell us, Eddie, how the Speculators and Banksters accomplished that.

If that needs explaining ( Wall Street) to you Dave then you aren’t near as smart as you let on.

Sure, Eddie. Do you really think you’re fooling anybody?

“Don’t forget it was Bush’s democrat congress that got us in this mess! ”

Well, that’s a bit oversimplified ~ just tell us how simple you plan to get before we expand on such a statement. Time is limited.

How do you say co·er·cion   [koh-ur-shuhn] Show IPA
noun
1.
the act of coercing; use of force or intimidation to obtain compliance.
2.
force or the power to use force in gaining compliance, as by a government or police force.

How do you say Fraud ? In criminal law, a fraud is an intentional deception made for personal gain or to damage another individual; the related adjective is fraudulent.

How do you say Extortion ? Extortion (also called blackmail, shakedown, outwresting, and exaction) is a criminal offence of unlawfully obtaining money, property, or services from a person, entity, or institution, through coercion. Refraining from doing harm is sometimes euphemistically called protection. Extortion is commonly practiced by organized crime groups. The actual obtainment of money or property is not required to commit the offense. Making a threat of violence which refers to a requirement of a payment of money or property to halt future violence is sufficient to commit the offense. Exaction refers not only to extortion or the unlawful demanding and obtaining of something through force,[1] but additionally, in its formal definition, means the infliction of something such as pain and suffering or making somebody endure something unpleasant.[2]
Extortion is distinguished from robbery. In armed robbery, the offender takes goods from the victim with use of immediate force. In robbery goods are taken or an attempt is made to take the goods against the will of another—with or without force. A bank robbery or extortion of a bank can be committed by a letter handed by the criminal to the teller. In extortion, the victim is threatened to hand over goods, or else damage to their reputation or other harm or violence against them may occur. Under federal law extortion can be committed with or without the use of force and with or without the use of a weapon. A key difference is that extortion always involves a written or verbal threat whereas robbery can occur without any verbal or written threat.
The term extortion is often used metaphorically to refer to usury or to price-gouging, though neither is legally considered extortion. It is also often used loosely to refer to everyday situations where one person feels indebted against their will, to another, in order to receive an essential service or avoid legal consequences.
Neither extortion nor blackmail require a threat of a criminal act, such as violence, merely a threat used to elicit actions, money, or property from the object of the extortion. Such threats include the filing of reports (true or not) of criminal behavior to the police, revelation of damaging facts (such as pictures of the object of the extortion in a compromising position), etc.

It took 8yrs for Bush to turn us upside down,it will take more than 8yrs to fix it.So you really think that ”Meat Ron” would become the president and all the mess that Bush started would magically disappear? Lol…I don’t think so. Mr Obama/Badin will stay 4 more years to continue the clean up.YOu can be mad at yourself for all i care. Here comes Obama 2012!!!

The Glass Steagall Act (also known as the Banking Act of 1933) was merely a political maneuver by the Rockefeller Empire to hobble the Morgan Empire. Read this to get a greater understanding (pages 308 to 330):
http://mises.org/Books/historyofmoney.pdf

Dave:

Not everything written by an Austrian is worth reading. Glass-Steagall and the rest of the regulatory apparatus put in place by FDR served us quite well. We had no banking crises for more than 50 years until the start of the deregulation mania with Reagan. First the S&L crisis because of lax regulations, then the repeal of Glass-Steagall, then, like clockwork, another 1929-style crash. I don’t know if Dodd Frank is strong enough to prevent another crash (I suspect it isn’t.) but without real regulation on Wall Street, it is a certainty we will have another 1929/2008 event in the near future. But you’ll be able to blame it on Obama. Or FDR.

The Austrians just want your MONEY, Dave.

Your ignorance knows no bounds, Jeff. We have had nothing but banking problems throughout the history of the Federal Reserve. You’d know that if you read any of the Austrian Economists that you prefer to disparage with no knowledge whatever of their beliefs.

Here is a list of the banking crises in the 20th Century:

20th century
Panic of 1907, a U.S. economic recession with bank failures
Great Depression, the worst systemic banking crisis of the 20th century
Secondary banking crisis of 1973–1975 in the UK
Japanese asset price bubble (1986–2003)
Savings and loan crisis of the 1980s and 1990s in the U.S.
Finnish banking crisis of 1990s
Swedish banking crisis (1990s)
Venezuelan banking crisis of 1994
1997 Asian financial crisis
1998 collapse of Long-Term Capital Management
1998 Russian financial crisis
Argentine economic crisis (1999–2002)
1998–99 Ecuador banking crisis

Note that in the U.S., post-Depression we had no crises until the S&L crisis in the late 80s. That means FDRs reforms prevented crises for 55 years. If there are other crises, please inform us.

Dave:

Here’s a list of 20th Century banking crises. Please note the absence of U.S. crises between the Depression and the S&L Crisis of the late 80s. That means 55 years crisis-free thanks to the reforms put in place by FDR. Since the deregulation religion started by Reagan, boom and bust seems to be back – with a vengeance.

20th century
Panic of 1907, a U.S. economic recession with bank failures
Great Depression, the worst systemic banking crisis of the 20th century
Secondary banking crisis of 1973–1975 in the UK
Japanese asset price bubble (1986–2003)
Savings and loan crisis of the 1980s and 1990s in the U.S.
Finnish banking crisis of 1990s
Swedish banking crisis (1990s)
Venezuelan banking crisis of 1994
1997 Asian financial crisis
1998 collapse of Long-Term Capital Management
1998 Russian financial crisis
Argentine economic crisis (1999–2002)
1998–99 Ecuador banking crisis

If you can add to our collective knowledge of banking crises, please do so.

Landslide? Not a chance! If Wall Street clone Romney is a true American in the financial sense we are really in big trouble. Considering how he gained his wealth and how Wall Street took us down.

Sigh… of course they are being created under the Earth’s surface as we speak, but they are non-reproducible resources. The time it takes for these resources to form naturally, relative to our rate of consumption, renders them a finite resource. Granted, they have made very low quality coal in a lab which took one year to produce, but such venture is as impractical as producing ethanol.

Perhaps you should learn to think about what’s actually being said.

TML says — “Sigh… of course they are being created under the Earth’s surface as we speak, but they are non-reproducible resources.”.
Do you even proof-read what you say, TML? They are being created as we speak, but they’re non-reproducible?
Think, man, think.

This may be what CC is talking about:
http://freeenergynews.com/Directory/Theory/SustainableOil/

DaveH says, “ Do you even proof-read what you say, TML? They are being created as we speak, but they’re non-reproducible?”

Perhaps I should have said, non-renewable. I will now direct my last statement to you. Learn to think about what’s actually being said… as I clearly gave an example of the stuff being made in a lab.

DaveH says, “This may be what CC is talking about:
http://freeenergynews.com/Directory/Theory/SustainableOil/”

That’s all fine and good, but as it’s just a theory, and gives no indication of the time required for such natural resource to form, it makes little impact on my point. When we discover a way to “re-produce” oil and other natural resources at the rate in which we consume them (and that rate grows every year), then you can get your panties in a wad if I repeat my statements here.

Switch non-reproducible with non-renewable still makes your claim illogical, TML. Try again.

If they are being produced now until the end of time I would say there is no problem eith running out.

DaveH says, “Switch non-reproducible with non-renewable still makes your claim illogical, TML. Try again.”

I think you’re having a reading comprehension problem, either that, or you’re intentionally side-stepping.
We, nor the Earth, are capable of reproducing oil and other natural resources at a rate that matches our consumption.

“We, nor the Earth, are capable of reproducing oil and other natural resources at a rate that matches our consumption.”

This means it is a finite resource. At current rates of consumption, and estimated constant growth of that consumption, it will disappear. And as the supply reduces, as demand goes up, the more the prices will rise.

I’m all for drilling and using those resources while pursing ‘alternative energy’. I’m not nostalgic enough to be content with it sitting in the ground undeveloped. Doing so might reduce gas prices for a time, but the figure from Obama that current (ambitious) estimates of natural resources under our feet could last 100 years is roughly correct when we take into account the exponential function of constant growth. It would be a dubious ignorance indeed to blissfully ignore these facts and argue against development of alternative energy.

Still, when it comes to gas prices, none of this takes into account inflation. (Notice neither candidate spoke a word about the private central bank that prints money like candy – the Federal Reserve; the real winner of the debates)

So while you might be able to put a downward blip on the screen for gas prices by poking a lot of holes in the ground, the prices will ultimately continue to climb.

It’s not rocket science.

TML says — “I think you’re having a reading comprehension problem, either that, or you’re intentionally side-stepping.
We, nor the Earth, are capable of reproducing oil and other natural resources at a rate that matches our consumption”.
Do I need to repeat your quote again, TML? Apparently:
“of course they are being created under the Earth’s surface as we speak, but they are non-reproducible resources”.
No, TML, my reading comprehension is quite good. It’s your writing skills that are lacking. And honesty.
And for a thinking guy, you sure don’t think much. So what if we run out? According to the Liberal Progressives we are going to run out some day anyway. So somebody down the line will suffer unless we replace oil with some alternate energies. But that isn’t going to be accomplished in an efficient manner if we impoverish ourselves first by pouring good money into costly technologies prematurely.

OKAY? ~~ Who on First?

TML says — “We, nor the Earth, are capable of reproducing oil and other natural resources at a rate that matches our consumption”.
Maybe my comprehension is bad because your comments are poorly written, TML.
You sentence should have read “Neither we, nor the Earth, are capable…..”

Maybe he’ll hire you to operate his car elevator.

Jeff…in the GOP world (and Romney’s new house) , the luxury cars get the elevator…labor gets the shaft.

Flashman,
You’re a smart guy (at least in your own mind). Why don’t you Liberal Progressives start your own businesses so you can prove your worth the voluntary way, instead of taking from others?

DaveH “According to BLS figures:
In January of 2009 (Obama takes office) the non-farm number of employed women was 66,122,000.
In July of 2012 (latest actual figures) the non-farm number of employed women was 65,690,000.
That adds up to a loss of 432,000 jobs for women since Obama took office.”

Well, I’m not about to haggle over whether 290,000 jobs for ‘women’ were lost, versus 580,000 (which is a 148,000 difference from you figure here) – the point is taken that jobs have been lost. However, my point of the matter was that women’s jobs have nothing to do with “women’s rights”.

And for those not thinking about what’s actually being said… the only time women’s rights would have something to do with jobs is if they [women] were not allowed to work simply because they are women.

Do I need to remind you, TML, that you said WAR’s figure was “completely wrong”?
Ironically, the actual figure I posted was almost right in the middle of the 580,000 that Wayne claimed and the 290,000 that you claimed.

Wait until he imposes the one percent tax on everything we do. Buy a car, sell a car, Cash a check ,make out a check , virtually short of breathing you wil pay a tax on it, Let the two J.J.s on this site defend Booboo s ripoff.p

JUST YOUR OPINION AND IT IS NOT CORRECT!!

The Pinocchio Test
Romney suggested during the debate that he took the initiative to find qualified female candidates for his administration by reaching out to women’s groups. But the women’s group that created the “binders” in question said it contacted Romney first, not the other way around. In fact, the organization said Romney signed their hiring-parity pledge while he was still campaigning in 2002.
Overall, Romney seems to have embellished the story here, omitting the role of the women’s caucus in the female-hiring initiative. But he still worked with the women’s caucus and appointed lots of women to top-level positions. Given the passage of time since this incident took place, the gist of his anecdote isn’t totally off-base. The Republican candidate earns two Pinocchios.
Two Pinocchios

Mitt Romney wrongly claimed that it took 14 days for President Obama to brand the assault on the U.S. Consulate in Libya a terrorist act. Obama yet again claimed that ending the Afghanistan and Iraq wars makes money available to “rebuild America,” even though it doesn’t.

“Entitlement society.” Romney has argued that Obama “is replacing our merit-based, opportunity society with an entitlement society,” where “everyone is handed the same rewards, regardless of education, effort, and willingness to take risk.” As New York’s Jonathan Chait has observed, “This accusation is approximately as accurate as claiming that the Republican Party wants to pass laws forbidding poor people from making more money.” The idea that President Obama (or any Democrat) advocates for equality of outcomes simply lacks a basis in fact.

Defense cuts. In an October speech on national security, Romney promised to “reverse President Obama’s massive defense cuts.” One problem: Pentagon spending has gone up under Obama, from $594 billion in 2008 to $666 billion. The 2011 request was for $739 billion. As Rick Perry would say, “Oops.”

Obama’s jobs record. By Romney’s own logic (touting jobs created but ignoring jobs lost), his attacks on President Obama’s economic record are nonsensical. He told Time that Obama “has not created any new jobs,” and he told Fox News last week that Obama has “lost” 2 million jobs as president. This is indeed a net figure, but also a misleading one. When Obama took office, the economy was shedding jobs at a rate of nearly 1 million jobs per month, losing roughly 3 million during the first four months of 2009. But presidential policies don’t take effect as soon as the incoming chief takes his oath. Once Obama’s policies started to take effect, the trend turned. The country had added 3.2 million private sector jobs over the course of 22 straight months of private sector growth. By Romney’s definition, the president has created more than 3 million jobs—not enough, but also not none.

In fact the biggest drag on job growth is the 600,000 public sector jobs that have disappeared under the auspices of budget austerity. As my colleague Danielle Kurtzleben reported in September, “government jobs are being shed by the tens of thousands almost every month, hindering an already weak recovery.”

SO!~ For people that clamor for a smaller Government ~ Obama has delivered ~ To create jobs and downsize government at the same time is quite a feat. The grow of government during W’s tenure was large ~ hang-on and I’ll put W’s numbers numbers.

Here they are; The public-sector story is much, much different.

To date, government cutbacks have led to 590,000 public-sector jobs losses under Obama. That falloff is finally slowing, but it hasn’t reversed, and locked in austerity measures suggest it won’t any time soon. At this point in Bush’s first term, by contrast, he’d benefited from 716,000 public-sector jobs gains. And over his first full term he benefited from 900,000 gains, almost fully offsetting private-sector jobs losses.

An enduring impediment to President Obama’s economic recovery has been the erosion of public-sector employment, driven largely by layoffs at the state and local levels. As we’ve noted before, this wasn’t a problem recent Republican presidents faced. Total government expenditures (federal, state and local) grew under Reagan and the two Bush presidents much more than it has under President Obama.

Job growth under Bush was worst since WWII
Jacksonville Business Journal by G. Scott Thomas
Date: Tuesday, January 20, 2009,

President George W. Bush will leave office Tuesday with the worst employment-growth record of any president since World War II, according to a new analysis by Bizjournals.
The nation’s job base grew at an annual rate of 0.28 percent during Bush’s eight years as president – by far the slowest pace for any of the 11 presidents in the postwar era, according to Bizjournals. Bizjournals is the online media arm of American City Business Journals, The Business Review’s parent company.
The previous low had been set by Bush’s father, George H.W. Bush, with an annual job-growth rate of 0.59 percent. The elder Bush served between 1989 and 1993.

( if it wasn’t for the 900,000 jobs created by government during W, Bush 8 year term, George would have been tared and feathered)

All said, Today we are making good long term progress on the job front without making the sized of government larger regardless what Mitt Romney says.

I think he meant to say, oblama owned “candy” or was it owes. Those two words can be taken out of context easily.

“Flashy, at what point did “obama own Romney”?” < Patriot

Ummm…how about five minutes in when Romney began using body language that "told" he was on the defensive and lost out of his comfort zone?

Y'all can try and twist the event as you may, fact is…Romney took it on the chin and was used to mop the floor. Right down to dissing the office of the Presidency when he had nothing left.

Romney came across exactly how he is. A golden spooned guy who never had to work in his life, wouldn't know what working through blisters feels like, and is the epitome of the know nothing overbearing egotistical boss who everyone but himself knows as an idiot. Toss in some used car salesmanship..and there you have it.. nothing postive, nothing but criticism, no solutions….and everything he will do he'll tell us after the election. [comment has been edited]

And that's the election…either a President who will continue to lead…or the boss who won't listen to anyone and leads by fear and intimidation

Obama will take 312 in electoral votes…possibly 328 if the swing is caught. Any wagers I'm closer than Root? LOL

Flashy, do you know which candidate is which? You say “Romney came across exactly how he is. A golden spooned guy who never had to work in his life, wouldn’t know what working through blisters feels like, and is the epitome of the know nothing overbearing egotistical boss who everyone but himself knows as an idiot. Toss in some used car salesmanship..and there you have it.. nothing postive, nothing but criticism, no solutions….and everything he will do he’ll tell us after the election.” At least Romney has some work experience on his resume. Obama has never held a job in the private sector, went to private schools and Harvard. He has yet to have to earn his paycheck.

How did Booboo pay for his Harvard education ? Maybe as an exchange student.

Your people have had 4 years, Smilee, and still the total number of employed people is less than when Obama took office. Do you guys ever throw in the towel and admit failure?
And according to Shadowstats.com the unemployment rate is actually much higher than the 7+% that Government reports:
http://www.shadowstats.com/article/employment

That is not being very reasonable David ~ “WE PEOPLE”?? ~ O can’t get a Jobs bill though the Senate today.

What have you done to create a job(s) David?

As for myself, ~ I’ve let out work ~ just to keep my people busy. ~ I’ve engaged in things that had greater risk and less profits. I’ve started projects ~ that I would have preferred to do at a later date, not really wanting to spend the money at this point in time.

WE People? ~ coming from you David , I would expect a more articulated statement.

Why did I do these things? I could have just sit on my hands and watch the world pass by.

I played the cards that I was holding ~ and stayed engaged in the game with hopes the next round of play might be better.

Warrior say; “The libs fear that mittens may destroy all the “crony capitalism”

That is so incorrect ~ I have to call you on it Warrior.

Mitt Romney embodies “crony capitalism” and the fear is, he will spread it like wild fire and these fears are justified by Mitt Romney past history of milking a business dry and then selling it off to some person willing to believe Mitt Romney that somehow it was worth buying.

Mitt Romney is guilty of selling people ideas ~ some good ~ some outrageous.

Why much are you willing to buy?

The only way we could EVER come up with anything CLOSE to “fair” would be to charge everybody the same percent of taxes. Eliminate ALL deductions, grants, tax breaks etc… Put a tariff on goods manufactured in other countries. Take away the BENEFIT of taking away the jobs! The system is so corrupt that the wealthy and corporations pay little or no taxes! Increasing the percentage that the wealthy pay will make NO difference! After they take all of their deductions, they still pay little to none! You could raise the corporate rate to 80%, it would change nothing! If you somehow managed to eliminate deductions, they would still get OUR money through government grants, contracts or tax incentives. The system is DESIGNED to take the money from US and give it to THEM!!! The federal government needs to get OUT of business altogether!!! Their only focus should be defense and infrastructure as it relates to defense!!! Even then, the cheating that goes on with defense contracts is astronomical! Those in government and those that control them are nothing more than criminals and THIEVES!!! Before ANYTHING can get better, we HAVE to recognize THAT!!! There will be NO “fair”!!! These people MAKE the laws to benefit themselves!!!

I think you are very angry person, take it easy, anger could affect your health! Another point from two bad person I am choosing less evil and voting for Romney

Nancy says — “The only way we could EVER come up with anything CLOSE to “fair” would be to charge everybody the same percent of taxes.”.
No, Nancy, the only fair tax would be for every adult to pay the same amount each year. We all get to vote for how the money is spent, so we should all pay the same amount. At any rate, the income tax, whether graduated or flat rate, allows the Government to take money from productive people and redistribute it to those who haven’t been productive. That’s a sure recipe for mediocrity.

Ideally Users should pay for the Government services they use whenever it is possible to assign such costs to users. Of course Government doesn’t offer that, because few people would voluntarily pay the inflated rates that would be charged by Inefficient Government when they could get much cheaper services from the Private Sector.

handlers? I dont have any handlers, but I dont believe all of the right wing propoganda machine either. To say that Romney won that debate you must be delusional. Pull your head out of the sand and listen to something other than right wing radio, tv and blogs and reports. I come here to see where you people get all of this nonsense from. When I was in the ARMY, everyone was always listening to RUSH….I didnt much care for him…..Clinton was President, I didnt vote for him, I voted for Perot….so just because I think the rich should help out the poor doesnt mean I am a socialist, it means that I believe that things should be fair. That there should be opportunities for lower and middle class people to get ahead. The govenrment doesnt make money, they only get it through taxing and rich people wont be contributing through their own volition, so taxing is a way to keep things even. NOW, MONEY gets you elected and not what you have to say and that just isnt right. MONEY is not speech.

Johnny..unless you believe in being told what’s acceptable behavior according to the whims of the Right…and believe in returning to the aristocratic elite oligarchy system of Victorian England (with a healthy dose of feudalism ), you’ll be accused of being a paid operative, a shill, or having handlers touting a communist Islamic agenda.

Write to the readers, not the posters..

Just a couple of facts to keep things interesting….

1st…. Regarding the rich peoples “fare share”… the government could confiscate everybodys’ income over 100K (that’s an earnings cap to all those proponents) and the yearly budget would still not be balanced…. forget the 16 trillion debt on the countrys’ credit card.

2nd…. It’s evil business that’s hurting the poor and only Government can insure fare (equal) outcomes. No… only in as much as you REALLY don’t care about the poor… you just care about the taking. To keep business in line, the Government can take them to court over their pricing policy….. they can do this in 3 ways:
1) They can take you to court because you charge more than everybody else… this is called gouging.
2) They can take you to court because you charge less than everybody else…. this is called predatory pricing.
3) And finally they can take you to court because you charge the same as everybody else… this is called collusion.
So….. the poor, and the reality are irrelevant…. all that’s important is the taking!!!

Flashy,
Democracy will aways lead to oligarchy. That is why the founders set up a CONSTITUTIONAL REPUBLIC. The lie has been told enough that not only do people believe they don’t even know the difference.

“That is why the founders set up a CONSTITUTIONAL REPUBLIC. The lie has been told enough that not only do people believe they don’t even know the difference.”

If I am not mistaken Mexico is a CONSTITUTIONAL REPUBLIC as well. While I enjoyed living a life of a Patron and being waited on hand and foot for several years, it takes money, ~ money that few manage to acquire as the wealthy have just about everything and the poor allowed to serve for the scraps off their table.

I confess, ~ I enjoyed it ~ but it was saddening at times.

Red Bull.
I was very pleased to see the way that Obama treated the day of prayer. In the past it was such a blatant attempt to placate the religious right. I was deeply offended to watch, two congressmen, bless the portico where Obama would pass for his inaugeration.
I wondered what modern educated countries, in the world, were thinking about Americans.

Here in America the most advanced country in the world, we have grown men, acting in such a rediculous manner.
Keeping religion out of government is a goal that needs to continue. Keep religion and religious dogma strictly for private use. Stay out of politics.

Jeff, twice on this post you have credited your anointed one with saving “saved the economy from Depression, rescued the auto industry, created 5 million new jobs in the private sector after the economy cratered as he was taking office, has doubled the stock market, ended “don’t ask,” and ended the Iraq Idiocy.” Looking at the reality instead of the obama web site yields a different outlook. The economy continue to teeter on the brink of a double or triple dip recession, the “rescued” auto industry has yet to repay their debt, the 5 million jobs may have been created but fast food just doesn’t pay the same as manufacturing, the stock market is superficially inflated, there is nothing to anyones credit of ending “don’t ask” and there are still boots on the ground in Iraq as well as Afghanistan, and several other countries in that region.

Put down the obama flier and look outside.

well said Jeff…..but they have to SPIN his record…..they focus on what he didnt or WASNT able to do rather than on what he DID do. And regardless, they dont think anything should have been done about dont ask dont tell, if he would have done nothing about the auto industry and it would have gone under they would be talking about how the auto industry went under under his watch…they are never gonna be happy with Obama no matter what he does….I think it is because he is black….racism in disguise is what I think

Jeff says — “Obama has saved the economy from Depression, rescued the auto industry, created 5 million new jobs in the private sector”.
Pure conjecture. Unless we can travel to a parallel universe without Obama, there is no way of telling whether he saved us from Depression or is just continuing the Folly of past Meddling Presidents which will result in even more pain in the future.
He rescued the auto industry? Read this:
http://www.forbes.com/sites/louiswoodhill/2012/08/15/general-motors-is-headed-for-bankruptcy-again/
He created 5 million new jobs in the Private Sector?
In January of 2009 (Obama assumes office), the non-farm number of employed people was 133,561,000.
Currently for the latest month of actual employment figures (July 2012), the non-farm number of employed people was 133,244,000.
That’s a loss of 317,000 jobs since Obama has been in office. These are actual figures from the BLS (Bureau of Labor Statistics).
It’s that pesky real record again.

Every would favor a drug store cowboy, than a maddrass educated rug polishing, dog eating, lap lizard for some sheik. W didn’t go around appoligizing for USA’s power, or tell the Russian he will put the screws to and destroy USA.. W actually paid payrolls and worked at a real job, this jugeared smuch has always had someone else to pick up the tab, taxpayers keep paying for his stupid pie in the green energy, even though he spends $200,000 @ hrs to fly and play golf or let his grump azzed scowling wife. You prolably wouldn’t be able to read the marxist admiring/socialist books to find out his twisted veiw that sure aren’t positive foe the USA, but beleives in dictators, hates whites and the western world.

Patriot1776 says:
October 18, 2012 at 9:36 am

It was reported this week that the tarp bill of 700 billion has now bee paid back to the tune of 720 billion giving to date the taxpayers to date have gained 20 billion dollars. Seem it was a good investment after all. We only hear from the GOP etc about the ordinal cost not the end cost which is the bottom line and therefore not at all what they want us to believe.

Tarp Payback?
I’d like to see some references for that, Smilee.
Even if it was paid back, it was paid back with cheaper dollars.
TARP was created in October of 2008.
According to the BLS own understated inflation calculator, $700 Billion in 2008 would buy what $752 Billion buys now.

Smilee is refering to the obama talking points list which does contain some truth in that there was a slight profit gained by the Fed in selling off the shares of AiG. Their portion of the tarp bailout was $720 billion, however, the entire tarp bailout was $812 billion and “Despite the good news about AIG, the Treasury still estimates the total loss from TARP is $63.5 billion, most of which is committed to housing programs.” (http://abcnews.go.com/Business/government-makes-177-billion-profit-aig-bailout/story?id=17074275)

you are a moron capitalist

So, the difference between a free market capitalist and Lenin is only 4% in the highest marginal tax rate? Who knew? If Obama is a communist committed to the destruction of the free enterprise system, why did he prevent Depression, save the U.S. auto industry, and double the stock market? Either he’s the worst communist in history or you don’t know WTF you’re talking about. The evidence leans toward the latter option.

Crony Capitalist says — “This makes you my mortal enemy along with the idiots voting for Communism”.
Bring it on, phony.
Why do you call yourself Capitalist, when it is obvious you know nothing about the term?
Capitalism is Free Markets and Strict Property Rights. We have neither now, and that certainly won’t change under Romney.
Anybody who isn’t brain-dead will recognize the Folly of voting for a Big Government Advocate in the hopes of getting Smaller Government.
Obama has actually done the country a favor (unintentionally) by pushing us toward Socialism in a dramatic enough way to wake many Americans from their deep slumber. If a Romney-like Republican had been elected, we would have gone in the same direction, but it would have been slower, less-perceptible, and Government would keep on growing until it reached a critical mass that nobody could stop until our country was completely crushed economically. And by then, most of the people who understand the beauty of Free Enterprise will be long gone.
While the Libertarian Candidate may not get elected, at least you will have the satisfaction of knowing that you did your best to steer our country back to Freedom instead of wasting your vote on another Big Government Growther like Crony Capitalist will do.

The democrats have sent more than one socialist/communist to run for president, 1972 canidate George McGovern, a registered communist professor, FDR, Wilson, and of course Onumnutts, a marxist admiring/socialist., all who want government to control everything even people.

If the democrats are all communists, then why does the stock market virtually ALWAYS perform better with a Democrat in the White House?

Jeff says — “If the democrats are all communists, then why does the stock market virtually ALWAYS perform better with a Democrat in the White House?”.
One problem with that statement is that it doesn’t. Figures don’t lie, but liars can figure:
http://gnuhaus.com/iblog/archives/000388.html
Another would be that, even if it did, one must take into consideration the fact that the Federal Reserve regularly bails out the Politically Favored companies and pumps immense amounts of newly created money into Government Debt Instruments which allows Government to reward their favorite Crony Capitalists with more of the citizens’ money. So the Stock Market increases are largely indicative of the price increases across the economy which are a result of too many dollars chasing the same amount of goods (inflation). To pin this on the Democrats is NOT a Good Thing.

So it’s better for the economy and for people with pension funds invested in the market for it to tank like under W than to soar like under Clinton and Obama? I really don’t get what these Plutocrats have against Obama. They’ve all gotten much, much richer with him as President. I guess he doesn’t kiss their asses enough. They know Romney will.

Democrats ran against Hoover and the Depression for decades. The same would be true of the W Brigade except so much of the media is in the tank for the right wing – Fox, AM radio, etc.

The first thing you need to get through your thick skull, Jeff, is that it’s a bipartisan thing. There are Progressive Leaders in both parties who are feathering their own nests as fast as they can at the rest of our expense.
Read this Please:
http://library.mises.org/books/Murray%20N%20Rothbard/Americas%20Great%20Depression.pdf

You are only partly correct. You will not be allowed to grow food and you will not be allowed to get out of debt! They will see to it!!! They are already putting into place, “codex alimentarious” which will make it ILLEGAL for you to grow your own food! Look it up! And I can just about guarantee that they will create situations where you will have no option but to go into debt to them!

When pavement pounders think they can raise their own food, think again, many cities have ordanced again drying clothes on out door clotheslines, offends someone seeing under wear. Gardening could have run off, that may cause silt. If you buy some privately owned land, now you mus gett approval for use of your own property. Government agencies. Homeland Security, Dept of Milary, Land Use Agency, EPA, Federal soil Service Agencyew brought on line by the marxist/socialist and his socialist communist democrats. , You must have to report twice a year on feild sizes, which they will give you numbers for,ID ing crops, as well as what is being planted and harvest. giving you the right to sell your crops. to sell you crops that must have approved paper work. Taxpayers have been paying land owners billions over the last 3 decades to let farm ground lay idle and produce nothing. Onumnutts and his socialist/communists have tried government take over of all private property. Of course the Dept of Ag was created by FDR and the first Sec of Ag was a registered communist and thought USSR produced food the best way, the socialist/communst democrats keep promoting more government control over private property. Facts the liberial morons can not spin.

You’re right about romney but you make the mistake of not applying it across the board!!! They are ALL dishonest because the WHOLE thing is a sham!!! The REAL decisions are made behind the scenes. The elections are nothing more than beauty pageants!!!

Nancy in Nebraska is right. The “election”, debates, etc., are all a big dog and pony show featuring the latest meat puppets that the establishment has put into play to distract the masses. It is all a big FARCE to mislead people; just like the wizard behind the curtain.

Here’s an interesting article that came out on the Lew Rockwell newsletter today: http://lewrockwell.com/slavo/slavo124.html

If you really want to know what is going on behind the scenes, read the free Lew Rockwell newsletter, (and of course Bob Livingston’s Personal Liberty newsletter).

Carlucci

Release your vacum lips off of socialist/communist exhaust vent. Onumnuts lies every time his [comment has been edited] lips moves. When he claim he call the murder of people in Libya a terrorist act, no he said an act of terror, and claimed on Letterman it was a roit caused by the movie. An act of terror is cutting your break lines, or sliding off a road in a storm. His claims of oil and gas production on federal land was another lie, it is on private land, federal lands is down over 47%. facys not airy fairy BS that both he and braying jackazzed Biden claim. Economy getting better look at the increase in unemployment this week, make a difference if all states were included. Omoron makes Jimmy Carter look smart, We have never had a VP or Pres. that are congental liars and can not tell the truth at any time.

They seem to forget the larger losses in life from terrorists attacks in the Reagan, Clinton and GW Bush administrations, and none where made out to be as bad as they want us to believe Obama has been in dealing with terrorists when in fact he has killed more terrorists than any of them. How about the Iraq war that should not have been fought in which we lost over 4000 to death and one trillion dollars spent and that cost still on the credit card to say nothing about the suffering of many that survived but were wounded and the cost over their lifetimes will be huge both in money and pain. If this was a mistake it pales in comparison to many in the recent past.

There is a difference in lying and waiting until all the facts are in. Obama stated in the Rose Garden that is was a terrorist attack. How clearer can he make it? I don’t want any President or candidate shooting from the hip until the information is sorted out. Both Romney and Obama screwed up a little but this petty bickering is un American and does not serve us well.

what makes your IGNORANT self think that everyone who votes democrat is on food stamps and welfare? Maybe we just think that you bible thumping republicans who say jesus this and that should be contributing more to society than you do. Maybe we believe that there will ALWAYS be poor people and those who cant make it because of the greed of the business people who protect profits over giving people a decent wage to live on?? And besides, if you are not rich, which I am sure you arent by your ignorant comment, why would you vote republican anyways. YOU PEOPLE are supposedly pro life but then when we have all of these extra people here who would be if you got your way and we banned abortion dont believe in helping people either, and the real problem is this….that you dont see the hypocrisy in what you believe.

OK, Johnny wrap your classicism brain around this, not every person voting Republican is a God fearing, bible trumping, born again Christian. I do not believe in a God, a higher power, maybe. I have already voted for R & R simply because Heli Ben and the O reduced my retirement by 26% due to inflation and the dropping dollar. BTW, I worked 30 years for my teacher retirement. The amount? 1,363 after taxes and insurance. So take a long walk off a short pier, and take the rest of the DNC trolls with you, fish food.

Convoluted “reasoning” is all your comment is, Johnny. You loathe Republicans, Conservatives, Libertarians and anyone else who does not follow your ideology of Utopianism.
You believe that Christians should be the “garbagemen” of the US, cleaning up after the screwups the Dems/Progs/Leftists make of their lives .How dare they not make life perfect for you with no problems, no cares, no worrries, no sorrows?

Just a simple question for you Johnny. How much do republicans contribute to charities as opposed to democrats? How much time do you spend helping in homeless shelters, food banks or really doing anything for somebody else on a volunteer basis?

The democrats idea of “helping those in need” is to take money from someone else and give it away.

You say “Obama will get re-elected but it isn’t because he’s so “elegant or graceful”. It’s because, he’s running against a cruddy elitist snobbish opponent.”
Obama will be re-elected because to many votes will be cast for candidates who can’t win.
I’m not saying he is a bad candidate or that he shouldn’t win. I am saying that these votes should be cast to remove Obama from office there by giving us at least a chance to turn the tide before Obama and his ilk destroy whats left of our country. We have all heard about voting your conscience, and standing up for ideals. That is great but it does nothing to help solve the country’s problems now before its to late to turn it around..

Gary Johnson, Please do not be a sore loser. We have a goodman in Mitt Romney. ROMNEY/RYAN, THE DYNAMIC DUO.

and you will be one of the ones to get the big O reelected
I would love to vote for one of those other guys such as you mentioned but they will not get elected only a wasted vote .

To Gary,Eliza, and James: I am voting for the best candidate. It’s time to end the Tweedle dee,Tweedle Dum syndrome. Both the main party candidates suck bigtime and really smell up the joint!! It’s better to vote on principle and conscience then on premise. BTW, i think Romneystein will be worse for he’ll increase the military industrial complex that will lead to more wars of colonial expansion. These wars are one of the reasons why this country’s deficit is in dire straights.

Liberty will be on the ballot:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AqtfyaWgW74

so I suppose if you were President, you would do what Romney says we should do…..we should cut taxes even MORE, so that even LESS money comes in to the treasury and then what??? cut all the programs that help the people you under pay SO you can under pay them??? The reason we have these programs in place is to help those who make minimum wage because EVERYONE knows that no matter how thrifty you are, it is not possible to live off minimum wage. And people use education as the answer but that would get THAT person out of that trap but what about the next one you hire who is ALSO making minimum wage??? Maybe you should have a little empathy for people who dont have degrees but still need to work and those who have to take the minimum wage jobs that are out there and then you wouldnt be voting republican.

For those who can manage to shed the blinders and learn how Government damages the poor rather than aiding them. Especially read Chapter 7 — “The Morality of Capitalism”:
http://library.mises.org/books/Kel%20Kelly/The%20Case%20for%20Legalizing%20Capitalism.pdf

Patriot1776 – you left out that Barack HUSSEIN Obama also bowed to the king of saudi arabia. I saw his true colors right then and there.

If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck……..it’s a muslim – !!!

Carlucci

Carlucci – But it’s OK if he bows to kings and queens of non-Muslim nations? It is simply protocol.

Of course Afro-Amercans is offensive but who calls African-Americans that anyway??? And I don’t consider Libya a scandal. It was heart-wrenching that it happened but we are in dangerous areas…this is going to happen and this is not the first time it has happened. The question should be why are we there anyway? As far as food stamps is concerned…millions of people lost their jobs what do you suppose we do let them starve? I really don’t think we should go back to the policies of wall street run amonk. Didn’t we just go through this? Trickle down has not worked for thirty years…it won’t work now.

They seem to forget the larger losses in life from terrorists attacks in the Reagan, Clinton and GW Bush administrations, and none where made out to as bad as they want us to believe Obama has been in dealing with terrorists when in fact he has killed more terrorists than any of them

Boy you have been listening to WAYYYY to many conspiracy theories.

You do know we don’t have the draft…so what are you talking about a draft card???

Hey “U”. Put your crayons away, it time for breakfast.

So then…why has our President spent so much money hiding all of these documents that no President has refused to divulge. For a guy that said he was going to have a transparent administration there sure is a lot of executive privelege and court ordered sealed files going on. Or would all of these disclosures just be a problem with that “damn record” again? These are legitimate questions that this man refuses to answer.

Where is your evidence of these payments? In the Fox News vault? Under Glenn Beck’s pillow? Or in Fatbaugh’s drug stash?

Romney said nothing about a Caymen account. Are all you people in this boare dillusional?

He certainly did speak about a Cayman account. Open your ears.

he DID say something about a caymen account, but he was just throwing things at him, he also said he invests in china, well, that is what happens when you have mutual funds who invest where they want, that is not exactly the same thing as Romney investing in china. Obama also released a LOT more years of returns than Romney did because Romney cant take the scrutiny, they found 100 miilion dollars in a IRA and a swiss bank account and a caymen account from one year of returns, and when this imbecile KNEW he wanted to be President, it just shows what a moron he really is and how he thinks the rules do not apply to him. Did you see how he said I am talking right now, you will get your chance….and he is saying this to the PRESIDENT……NO he doesnt even deserve to be on the same stage with Obama.

Johnny, even IF Romney has HIS money in foreign accounts and invests in China, at least he is investing his own money and has been successful. Obama, on the other hand, publicly invest our tax dollars in business’ that fail, taking our money and not producing any jobs. Obama has been investing our money in losers. Obama also pretends that his net worth is insignificant, yet between his salary for the job he should be doing instead of campaigning for the last 4 years, along with his royalties for his books put him well above the middle class cap.

Not sure that’s quite accurate….
Cinton definately only cared about Clinton ala his “3rd way” governing technique (welfare reform, “the era of big government is over” etc.), but Chairman Oba-Mao strikes me as much more of an idealogue than a narcissist. Look at his formative mentors (Davis, Wright…) and inner circle (Van Jones, Anita Dunn…)…. every one, to a man/woman, a card-carrying Communist. These are not positions likely to be tempered in order to be liked……

you read too many of the lying liberlal polls trying to prop this POS up!
Sorry Chump it will be a Romney victory and not even close.

AMEN TO THAT!!!!!!!!!!!! FROM YOUR LIPS TO GOD’S EAR!!!

It’s difficult to argue, that the country wouldn’t be MUCH better served under a Constitutionalist moron vs. a brilliant Communist……. and if I call him a doodoo head, do I still have to pay your royalty???

Putting intelligence and Obama togethe is an oxymoron at best. He is a marxist/socialist loviong freak. Typical democrat socialist/communist, they all beleive in government control of everything and every body, read the verifiable SOB veiws in his books, his whore hound mother may have jumped the broom with his(?) dad but with her back ground, who really was his sire?

You just did.

Actually Patriot1776, this country would be ahead if people like johnny didn’t vote !!!

Obama will more than likely be elected again, because this is all a shell game, and if the National Republican Party wanted a true Constitutionalist for President, they could have easily beaten Obama in 2008 by running Ron Paul, and backing him, but that is not what they want, because they want whatever the Globalist CFE tells them to want, and to do. Just in case the CFR has decided to can Obama, and allow Romney to win, it will be no different other than a little posponement of their final agenda, but then again maybe everything is playing out the way they, the Globalists want anyway.

There is some truth in what you say, but after W it’s hard to say having an idiot as president is without consequence. Do you really think we’d be in the economic mess we are if the Supreme Court had allowed Florida to count the votes? Do you think we would have spent/be spending trillions on the Iraq Misadventure?

Nancy is talking non-partisan common sense, and Jeff wants to make it a partisan issue.
Those who want to better understand the game our Leaders play, while keeping most of us in a delusional chant for “our team”, please read this:
http://mises.org/Books/historyofmoney.pdf

Jeff, YES! I DO believe that we’d be in the SAME MESS! I believe that the MESS was by DESIGN!!! I believe that the supreme court was following orders, just as everyone in government does!!! I believe that bush was merely a mouthpiece! I don’t really think that he’s smart enough to fight his way out of a paper bag, let alone run a country! He was a mouthpiece, a figurehead, a puppet! Call it what you want! Just as obumass and romney are puppets! The REAL work and the REAL decisions go on behind the scenes by those who control the money and the information! Those who control the money, control governments! Those who control information, control the people!!! The next one is, those who control the food, control the world. Look out! It’s happening!!!

Nancy, no trees blocking your view of the forrest…excellant!

Forrest Gump: “My momma always said, Life was like a box of chocolates. You never know what you’re gonna get.”

Jeff, just SEEING the forest isn’t enough!!! I’m trying to see what’s going on IN the forest!!!

Judging by your earlier comment to me, Nancy, you’re not doing a very good job of it.

These men debated for over 2 hours the other night and this is all you’ve got galt? At least we know who would be holding the door for them (YOU doorknob)

up the hill
airborne

I couldn’t have said it better myself.

Dear Galt, And if you were in the room, you would be the artificial plant sitting in the corner.

Yes galt, and if you and all the rest of the DNC trolls were there, the I.Q. would negative infinity.

If all you can do is throw out insulting remarks, I suggest you crawl back under the rock you just crawled out from underneath.

Gee sorry guy’s but that is all the “effort” that Wayne requires……you want more?

You might think, and in being generally ignorant, I would predict that you do believe, that the “state income tax” you may be paying goes to the state you are working in?
In 19 states this is NOT the case……take Kansas, as a specific example….AMC theaters, which moved it’s HQ from Kansas City Missouri, to Leaward Kansas, 10 miles away…….which simply shifted jobs across state lines…..but in exchange the CORP gets to keep the “state income tax” collected although their employee’s are “clueless” ……( as you are ) How much is this worth to the owners over the TERMof this agreement…..a mere $47 million, basically chump change, right?

Who owns AMC theaters? J.P. Morgan, Apollo Mgmt, the Carlyle Group and Bain Capital Mgmt. No jobs created, just moved……

But as I said, there are 19 states that have done these deals…..and 2700 corps which have arranged them….to include, General Electric, Goldman Sachs, Proctor and Gamble…as well as foreign companies,including Siemans and Electrolux……… as well as Japanese, Canadian and European Banks…….

Further ignorance on your part, re; the revolution and the phrase “no taxation without representation”…..is that the CROWN was not the problem…..nor was taxation, British subjects at HOME, were taxed 25 to 50 times as much……the PROBLEM was the EAST INDIA COMPANY…..a state sanctioned MONOPOLY…….is a patternbeginning to develope for you? No? If you had read Power, Inc. or any of the “other” books on the list of MY required reading…..….the revelation above would not be SHOCKING NEWS……..it would just be another piece that FIT the picture of our present…….

And one final blow for today……….this time the median WAGE which in 2010 was $29, 448…….in 1966 it was $392 DOLLARS LESS………SINKING IN YET?

Oh wait, just one more FUN FACT for today, there was a time when banks charged a $6. fee for a bounced check…….the banks costs for this was 30 cents, the present day cost is ONE CENT…..the fee is over $40 although you probably won’t know until it happens.
It is always a pleasure to talk to people who believe they have a RIGHT to their opinion…….insistence on sharing ignorance has always been useful to someone……..willing victims do make the BEST MARKS, after all…and such PATRIOTISM should not go unacknowledged…..hopefully President Romney will leave the $200 something Social Security DEATH BENEFIT intact..rather that removing it as an excessive entitlement?

FINALLY, the FACTS presented here are intended as a WARNING, not as an endorsement for the current President…..nor are these FACTS….NEW……..and we have just BEGUN to explore them……and in the future you will begin ( hopefully ) to understand that you are living in a “nightmare” which began many decades ago……two examples of which are Eisenhowers “promise” that nuclear power would yield “abundant power to cheap to meter” and that “competition and free markets” would result in lower costs……as in the breaking up of ATT.

What is business as usual? You are about to find out……stayed tuned…

not enough?

The Wonderful World of Willard…..Part 2 of a continuing series, exposing another bit of TRUTH…….in a picture puzzle.

Circa 2001 the dot com bubble popped, the market dipped, jobs were lost and a recession began……….the jobs were not recovered until 2004 a presidential election year……..

2004 also saw the passage of the American Jobs Creation Act ( of 2004 ) which is an interesting name for the legislation because this was not a direct stimulus to create jobs but an application of the “trickle down” theory……….which was proposed to capture “off shore” profits by international corporations which had eluded taxation.

The theory ( and it’s only a theory and not to be confused with a “scientific theory” ) stated that if the corporations were allowed to “repatriate” this money ( for some reason money and patriotism seem to be somewhat disconnected and a difficult concept for international corporations ) then they would re-invest it in all manner of market competitive activity and THIS would result in ECONOMIC GROWTH and JOBS, JOBS, JOBS….and maybe some chickens……..

It was passed by 205 Republicans and 75 Dem’s……….and 43 and 25 in the Senate…….thus demonstrating the then presidents ability to reach across the aisle to achieve bi-partisan solutions…….and was projected to employ one in every twelve of the current jobless…… ( see the then BLS employment numbers or Jack Welch for verity and/or cooking )

843 Corporations repatriated 312 billion while escaping 80 billion in taxes………and free market capitalism was unleashed to work it’s MAGIC or “magical thinking” depending on your ability to assemble a “picture” from pieces of FACT.

The largest beneficiary was Phizer and just in case you are wondering how hard it is to get money from “patriotic sales” to another country which grants more favorable tax treatment like the Cayman Islands, it just demands someone with “real business experience”……. because as Willard has reminded us, “Corporations are people too, my friend.”

In Phizer’s case, they simply assign the rights to a drug ( Viagra, Lipitor )to an off shore subsidiary which collects a “royalty” ( nice word that ) on every pill sold and this avoids the predatory 35% corporate tax rate….imposed by the present commie/socialist government of these United States…….please however, don’t try this at home especially if you DO NOT HAVE “real business experience” because some “people are MORE EQUAL” than others.

After receiving this “forgiveness” Phizer proceeded to close factories and eliminate jobs……in 2004 it employed 115,000 people, by 2009 it’s work force was 74,000,…………trickle down had “stimulated” the loss of 41,000 jobs.

This may have something to do with the fact that the American Job Creation Act ( of 2004 ) carried no obligation that this money, not one dollar of it, be used to create jobs or expand research……..in fact it did not specify the United States at all….simply what the executives determined would “stabilze” the company……….so what did Phizer do with this money? It was used in an attempt to manipulate its own “stock price”……..another piece of the Wonderful World of Willard which will be covered as this series continues…….

In all, 100,000 additional jobs were lost…..as a result of the American Job Creation Act and the 80 billion in lost revenue, had to be borrowed which became part of the debt, with interest……at current rates for Phizer alone, comes to 1 million a day……. to be paid by the “not so equal people”.

Coming soon: The 35% Corporate Tax Rate…….and a little more “magic or magical thinking”….. in the world of “business as usual. ”
The Wonderful World of Willard…..Part 2 of a continuing series, exposing another bit of TRUTH…….in a picture puzzle.
Circa 2001 the dot com bubble popped, the market dipped, jobs were lost and a recession began……….the jobs were not recovered until 2004 a presidential election year……..
2004 also saw the passage of the American Jobs Creation Act ( of 2004 ) which is an interesting name for the legislation because this was not a direct stimulus to create jobs but an application of the “trickle down” theory……….which was proposed to capture “off shore” profits by international corporations which had eluded taxation.
The theory ( and it’s only a theory and not to be confused with a “scientific theory” ) stated that if the corporations were allowed to “repatriate” this money ( for some reason money and patriotism seem to be somewhat disconnected and a diffult concept for international corporations ) then they would re-invest it in all manner of market competitive activity and THIS would result in ECONOMIC GROWTH and JOBS, JOBS, JOBS….and maybe some chickens……..
It was passed by 205 Republicans and 75 Dem’s……….and 43 and 25 in the Senate…….thus demonstrating the then presidents ability to reach across the aisle to achieve bi-partisan solutions…….and was projected to employ one in every twelve of the current jobless…… ( see the then BLS employment numbers or Jack Welch for verity and/or cooking )
843 Corporations repatriated 312 billion while escaping 80 billion in taxes………and free market capitalism was unleashed to work it’s MAGIC or “magical thinking” depending on your ability to assemble a “picture” from pieces of FACT.
The largest beneficiary was Phizer and just in case you are wondering how hard it is to get money from “patriotic sales” to another country which grants more favorable tax treatment like the Cayman Islands, it just demands someone with “real business experience”……. because as Willard has reminded us, “Corporations are people too, my friend.”
In Phizer’s case, they simply assign the rights to a drug ( Viagra, Lipitor )to an off shore subsidiary which collects a “royalty” ( nice word that ) on every pill sold and this avoids the predatory 35% corporate tax rate….imposed by the present commie/socialist government of these United States…….please however, don’t try this at home especially if you DO NOT HAVE “real business experience” because some “people are MORE EQUAL” than others.
After receiving this “forgiveness” Phizer proceeded to close factories and eliminate jobs……in 2004 it employed 115,000 people, by 2009 it’s work force was 74,000,…………trickle down had “stimulated” the loss of 41,000 jobs.
This may have something to do with the fact that the American Job Creation Act ( of 2004 ) carried no obligation that this money, not one dollar of it, be used to create jobs or expand research……..in fact it did not specify the United States at all….simply what the executives determined would “stabilze” the company……….so what did Phizer do with this money? It was used in an attempt to manipulate its own “stock price”……..another piece of the Wonderful World of Willard which will be covered as this series continues…….
In all, 100,000 additional jobs were lost…..as a result of the American Job Creation Act and the 80 billion in lost revenue, had to be borrowed which became part of the debt, with interest……at current rates for Phizer alone, comes to 1 million a day……. to be paid by the “not so equal people”.
Coming soon: The 35% Corporate Tax Rate…….and a little more “magic or magical thinking”….. in the world of “business as usual. “

dear Galt,If you and Obama were in the same room we would have two Pendejos!

Your affirmative action president found out that the old adage is true: A lawyer who represents himself has a fool for a client. The 0′bomb doesn’t stand a chance even when he has a moderator who stacks the deck in his favor. the 0′bombs lies and deceit are now catching up with him. If mccain had the cajones to stand up to the lying 0′bomb we would never had this affirmative action product as president to begin with

Galt…this is a serious request. Contact me at capricornbaker@yahoo.com. Not sure what your screen name will show up as…Galt (?). Some of your commentary has caught my attention…I’d like to hear from you. Thanks.

Come ON, people!!! Read it and read it again! GALT is SHOWING you how THEY screw us over and over again, and WE PAY FOR IT!!! Not only do they NOT pay taxes but THEY get to keep OUR tax money!!! EVERYTHING is manipulated! The laws are MADE to benefit THEM!!! READ IT over til you understand it! I’m not even sure if I understand it ALL but the picture is coming into focus! If we dont even SEE what they are doing they have free reign to keep doing it and then some!!! These things GALT speaks of really ARE more pertinent and important than the phony debates and the phony election because these things happen no matter WHO is sitting in the white house!!! EVERYTHING the government DOES is with the PURPOSE of taking everything from us and giving it to their cronies which include themselves!!!it’s ALL a BIG SHAM!!! I’m DONE falling for it, what about you? I won’t even pretend that I see the WHOLE picture yet, but I WILL get there because I KNOW that there IS a whole picture that’s being hidden from US!!! I think that I already know what GALT’s next installment will be about. He dropped the “teaser” about the 35% corporate rate, income tax. In reality, the big corporations pay little or NO income taxes, thanks to all their precious deductions! Last year, GE paid NO income taxes! That’s what it’ll be about, isn’t it, GALT?

And all of this information you site makes you want to support Obama BECAUSE???

Dear Murf & Crew that followed,

OMG,

Lets be real, two hours ~ two days ~ two years ~ two decades, ~ and ~ yet nothing of any value came from this ~ ” Alledged debate” or what ever one would so like to classify the mindless rhetoric that was blown about like so much bad gas in room full of
BIG FAT FARTS after a chill eating event.

Thus ~ Other than Masturbators playing with the Old Jolly Roger ~ there was little else going on during this staged screen event,

So please do great ones ~ tell us all what you garnered from this oh so special event?

Peace and Love

Who you support is up to you…….this series is to enlighten you as to “mechanisms”
that are already in place………and given “willard’s”, serious business experience….
and his “rationalized beliefs”………..regarding “job killing regulations”……and his various
position’s on so called “health care” or “Dodd Frank”……..if you think that he has
solutions that will improve things for YOU…….by all means……..feel free to vote for
him……….after all Obama has chosen NOT TO ENFORCE certain laws……..so that even if
willard fails to repeal or alter those “things” he claims are problems……what laws do you
think he will choose not to enforce?

BTW just as Phizer used “little tricks” to funnel profits off shore……..this is also easily
done within the U.S………….you see not all states are created equal, so that
revenue that could be taxed…….in Wisconson, can be easily funneled to Delaware,
Nevada, Wyoming…..where no taxes exist………

If you have been paying attention, you might have noticed how R & R each have plans
to funnel money and responsibility to the “states”…….so given the content of the first
post above……..you might have some understanding of the basis for this position……
and it isn’t to make things better for you………

Let’s play word games or should the word be semantics, Galt. What would you perceive to be the embodiment of “smart people”?
Playing that playground game of “I am smarter, prettier, stronger” than any and showing how immature you are?

Dear Nadzieja Batki

“Not just because Mitt is the smartest guy in the room — and he is.”

I don’t think Wayne will actually be able to benefit from your citing his “immaturity”
but thanks for pointing it out……..

But wait…who is Obama’s “jobs Czar”? CEO of GE. The biggest outscourcer of jobs we’ve seen in years. Paid $0 Corp Tax sent more jobs to China then any other employer. That’s our jobs Czar under Obama. How about those allies of Obama. Nancy Pelosi who thinks unemployment checks create jobs. How about the number of uninsured Americans that has risen substantially since Obamacare was implemented because those without employer paid health insurance can no longer afford the premiums. How about the number of Americans on the food stamp program. Up 43% under this administration. It’s that damn record again!

Poor Wayne,

” Really. I own multiple small businesses. My taxes haven’t been cut one time, nor one penny under Obama. ”

Wow, Wayne……you live in Nevada and you DON’T KNOW how to run a “small business”
and avoid taxation? Maybe “willard” can help you?

There are ways to “own” things and ways to “control” things? How long have you been living in this country………and why have you been paying “willard the welfare queen’s”
taxes all these years? How about ‘warren buffet’s'taxes? Now that guy gives the concept
of “class warfare” a whole new meaning……….

Why does Nadzieja ignore the ridiculous comments from some Conservative commenter’s? Because she is a biased troll for them! Think outside the box for a change Batki can you do that?

It is funny how people are quick to call Republican candidates names. Romney has dual degree in business and law from Harvard, graduated in top 5%, made a ton of money and some worm is calling him “not smart”. His records are not locked. The Dumbobama was shifted into Columbia with SAT of 1100 (the base for being admitted is over 2100) and then again to Harvard based on his skin color. That’s why his only job was a community organiser. Why do you think his school transcripts are locked? Have we ever had a president where any personal information, which should be wide open, since my taxes are paying that parasite, have been LOCKED period. Why are journalists not digging the truth? Locking something about you in a journalist’s eyes makes you fishy. If the record is clean and one is proud of it, there is no need to lock it.

There really is no sense to discuss or reply to supporters of Mr. Obama. They are for the most part not the most intelligent people on the block. Interactions with these people only make one ugly as hell for being drawn into their stupidity and ignorance. They have not done their homework and won’t entertain any other opinion but that Mr. Obama is just great.
Mr. Romney is a wonderful man who made it to become very sucessful. I think jealously pays a big part among the haters and name callers. Let’s hear their remarks on November 7th.

Well look on the bright side, Observer, at least the “parasite” is paying his taxes, while the “smart guy” is letting you pay his and yours………

P.S. I know it looks like he is paying them…….to the tune of 14% or so, but that is
simply an illusion……..which when examined “in toto” would reveal a “negative tax rate”….

Apparently the “smart guy” wants to keep a few things locked up……of the two, which
of these “locked up” things do you think is more “useful” in determining “motive and
intent”?

Well Susan, it is not often that one see’s equating a “wonderful man” with a thief, liar and destroyer of lives and livelyhoods…….how many off shore account’s do the O’bama’s have……..?

Galt, At least Romney got the fast and furious bit in there, and guess what? Candy covered for his lame butt and he completely ignored a honest question from mitt. By the way, Candy Crowley is the spawn of one of the most evil creatures to ever live…Aliester Crowley the father of Barbara bush.

Hip Shot………… “Candy Crowley is the spawn of one of the most evil creatures” Here they go again. Your name gets added to the looney bin.

Yes, Nancy, there is Crony Capitalism. And yes, they get special legislative favors in the form of subsidies, tax breaks, quotas, favorable regulations, etc. from their Crony Politicians which is wrong.
But before you spend too much time commiserating with Galt, you need to ask him what his solutions are. He’s a collectivist — a Socialist, and he thinks people in Leadership positions can somehow be more trustworthy than Crony Capitalists can be.
Don’t enable the creepy guy, Nancy.

Always a pleasure to see your functional illiteracy in action DavidH but the real
improvement will come when you comprehend that your attempt to use labels
as argument is not only logical fallacy but since you have no clue what the labels
mean they have no effect……..but it is also strange that you find the FACTS being
revealed here cause for alarm…….did you want to argue any of them? I don’t see
an argument…….but then when have you ever made one…….in your magical world
of “free market, unregulated, voluntary transaction capitalism”?

Since you have failed to grasp the MESSAGE which has not changed I will
repeat it again for you…….Government is NOT the problem, corrupted government
is your problem…….but if you had any knowledge of “history”……..you would surely
know that “corporations” were restricted to a twenty year lifespan, required to have
a singular purpose and had to demonstrate that they contributed to the “public good”.

Still David, I have never seen a “victim” clamor so vigorously for more of what
has made him a victim…….because he is clueless of just about everything including
human nature………and all you have to do to change this is to start defining those
labels………flesh them out…….try naming those “crony capitalists”…..in fact here is
a synonym for you “the political donor class”……..if you aren’t one of those, you
are a victim of them………

Since you seem to have missed this…….try reading it again…..

“FINALLY, the FACTS presented here are intended as a WARNING, not as an endorsement for the current President…..nor are these FACTS….NEW……..and we have just BEGUN to explore them……and in the future you will begin ( hopefully ) to understand that you are living in a “nightmare” which began many decades ago……two examples of which are Eisenhowers “promise” that nuclear power would yield “abundant power to cheap to meter” and that “competition and free markets” would result in lower costs……as in the breaking up of ATT.

What is business as usual? You are about to find out……stayed tuned…”

Dave H, I’m here for a reason! I’m not here just because I have nothing else to do. I have enough to do to keep me busy day and night. I’m here because I want to learn something that I didn’t already know. To just repeat the same things over and over does nothing to expand my knowledge. I’m seeking truth. If I post something controversial, it almost certainly leads to an exchange of ideas. If GALT has something to offer, I’ll not turn it down! I admit that when GALT started posting, he was overbearing and obnoxious and spoke in riddles. But I am willing to put up with overbearing and obnoxious for the clear exchange of information. What he’s been posting is no longer in riddles. He’s sharing information that I find very interesting and informative. He uses psychological tactics to make us search and figure it out. Do I wish he were nicer? Yes, but in the end does it matter if I am learning things? He’s badgered and bullied you so you’ve decided that you will never accept anything that he says. That’s your loss. You say, he’s a collectivist and a socialist. I’ve never heard anything that would indicate that to me. Because he’s trying to get you to look beyond Mises, you won’t do it just to spite him. That too is your loss. I don’t need to like him. I don’t need to agree with everything he says. If I can learn and expand my knowledge, I’ll put up with his debasement. I don’t need his approval so I don’t care.

Ask him what his solution is, Nancy. It’s as simple as that; if he’ll tell you the truth.

Nancy says — “Because he’s trying to get you to look beyond Mises, you won’t do it just to spite him”.
I thought better of you than that, Nancy. Too bad. You made that up out of whole cloth, just like the board Liberals do. I post links to Mises because they offer Free books online and I can count on them to tell people the real truth, so I don’t need to do much checking on their statements.

Here is a snipet from a “Power, Inc.” (the book that Galt is recommending) review:
“He (David Rothkopf, the author) correctly notes that these gargantuan players now prevent us from dealing with the pressing issues of our day such as global warming, growing economic inequality and embracing cleaner forms of energy…..The extremes of both Soviet communism and free-market financial excesses have been discredited. American capitalism initially triumphed but has since receded: and competition between different capitalisms will continue.” —Roy Ulrich, The Huffington Post.
The extremes of “free-market financial excesses”? We haven’t had anything close to Free Markets in this country for over 100 years.

If you took the time to read this book that I link to often, you would know that, Nancy:
http://library.mises.org/books/Kel%20Kelly/The%20Case%20for%20Legalizing%20Capitalism.pdf

Instead you join the chorus of Liberals who are trying to disparage Mises.

David, David, David…..you poor lad, and you will have to do better than blurb’s if
you intend to argue the content and facts in books you haven’t read…..and since
the books are “foundational” any chance of you have of even coming close to understanding what I am about, to even begin to “argue” with ME about anything,
isn’t going to happen……..as an interloper here, I expected a hostile reception, and
that it would be you and your coterie is simply the way of things…….and the problem
with those who would pretend to “alpha dog status of an intellectual bully” is that
to succeed……..actual “intellect” is required. You need FACTS and the reasoning ability
to organize them into a coherent framework……..you have neither, and reliance on
“von mises” links and sound bite repetition can not disguise that deficiency.

The state of being “ignorant” is a condition which can be remedied…….”willful ignorance” on the other hand is a terminal condition…….and you have
my condolences.

Ultimately everyone chooses what view of society they are going to adopt and what
sort of social interaction is the most appropriate and reflective of their opinion of
others as human beings both in commonality and differences…….and this determines
behavior and civility, cooperation or conflict…….and there are no restrictions on
the range of this behavior…….which for most is largely determined by the
circumstances in which they find themselves……..and their ability to respond to them.

One’s ethics and morality are also choices which are largely determined by
circumstances and what works………which is for most again determined by
observation and imitation……that which is successful brings both power
and advantage and becomes habit……….but again, there are no restrictions
on what will work……although for most this is simply a matter of the path of
least resistance and for us that path has been the application of force, conquest
and domination…….directly, or through the control of these mechanism’s.

Observation and imitation are not intellectually demanding strategies so these
cycles tend to be self re-enforcing…….where degrees of success, also result in
social stratification and hierarchies……..but these structures are not the result
of intelligent reasoning and because of this they are incapable of adaptation
or the anticipation of consequences………which can only result in failure and
collapse……….which is the LESSON of HISTORY and has been constantly repeated.

Now you have demonstrated that your knowledge of history is rather weak as
to the particulars of any given period, and it would be rather foolish to deny the
general result just stated……….but we no longer have the luxury of past failures
because there is no room left for failure and we still have not even begun to
recognize the need for anticipatory and adaptive thinking nor do we have the
intelligence to design and impliment the solutions, because those with the “power”
now are concerned with maintaining it ( as they always have been ) and the “victims”
are too busy being victims, expecting salvation from those who have enabled their
oppression in the first place………you seem to get this part, but you imagine that
somehow you are different……..that you are less deserving of victim hood, and
that “government” is the cause……..unfortunately, that is the best you can offer
and your solution is “free market, unregulated, voluntary transaction, capitalism”.

Finally, you want me to produce solutions for you………( although you have already
indicated that you have the solution, so your request would appear somewhat
disingenuous ) and I have no objection to pursuing that discussion………but you
need to understand that this would entail an actual dialog…….and to begin,
you will need to identify those PROBLEMS which you believe require solutions….
and you will also need to define your terms if you resort to using them…….and
believe that they hold some contributory validity to the PROBLEM you are
seeking to identify………..

Evidence suggests that you are not capable of this kind of discussion nor
have an actual desire to engage in one…….but you are welcome to try……

Dave H, I wrote you a message and accidentally posted it further down.

I am far from being wealthy but I would like a chance to be in that category. If given the chance to invest and saving, without being taxed on money I have already been taxed on when I worked for it. But thanks to the “progressives”, those on lower income level have no chance of really progressing in life finacially. I am a woman and I want a chance to get back to making money the way it was before Obama took over.

rose says:
October 18, 2012 at 11:18 am

You only pay tax on the gain from the money you paid taxes on previously so this tax is on new income not what you have paid taxes on before. Getting rid of Capital gains gives a tax break on income never taxed before and mostly apples only to the wealthy. Dream on sweety

Romney and other wealthy folks usually only pay a 15% rate . How do they get away with that. They include all their income (job) as an investment and get the lower rate. The working stiff has to claim his income from his job not as an investment. Thus the big difference. Hedge Fund Managers on Wall Street do the same thing and that has to change. We need to separate their job income from investment income and at least level that unfair tax burden on the rest of us.

Hello Time. Thanks for your reply. Yes you are entitled to your opinion and there will be millions that join you. I am not right or left, but I can listen to every comment and decipher, if it is partisan rhetoric or fact. Both side can lie or distort the truth. Or leave out all of the facts. For example. The bailout failed and the government gave away 700 billion. the fact would be that it did not fail. it stopped a downward spiral in the economy and most of the money has been paid back. So it actually did not cost Americans the 700 billion. It is thing like this that each side can parse to their advantage.
But my opinion and I will try and quote what David Letterman said on an interview with I cannot remember. It went something like this. the guest said that it seemed like Letterman was picking on the GOP most of the time and was therefore perceived as being Left Wing and liberal. His response was that he was actually independent, but as a comedian, he said that his livelihood depended on gaffs and outrageous acts for him to spoof. He then said that if it was not for the GOP, that he would be starved of material to spoof. There does seem to be a lot of things that the GOP spout that are far from the truth. I have seen this a lot this year. If I would rate how the Democrats and the GOP would score in a lie contest, I would rate it something like this. Democrats 20% and GOP 80%. The thing is that anyone in the GOP would feel that it is the opposite. But that is the reality to me. It seems that the Obama administration is more diplomatic and do not jump in with hurried and off the cuff statements. They seem to wait until they can speak with clarity and knowledge. So tend to believe more of their statements.

Well my humble opinion. Now I am ready to receive the barrage of nasty names. (butt kissing, commie, socialist and ………….. and on and on.)

Lots more deceptive drivel from elitists. You know what a monopoly is, how it works, and more importantly, how it’s being applied to our beloved form of free government! First, we imported almost exactly 2/3 of our crude oil and 1/3 was produced here in 2011! LOOK IT UP! The US has a near endless supply of that natural resource, but our president has done everything he can to prevent drilling in our vast reserves. Those reserves are regulated out of business by our “corrupted” government – especially in the great white north.

We have OPEC and the financial “US” globalist “management pyramids” that trade in commodities and vote mutual fund stocks, etc. A nation dependent on oil for just about everything we do will collapse if 2/3 of the crude disappears. It is so critical, that almost any bump in supply triggers huge increases in price. And so it is, the price is relatively the same across the globe, (especially in America) because monopolist hands set it! Thus we have $100/bbl oil ($90+) because the presidential puppet restricts our God given resources. As a result, citizens pay roughly $80 too much per barrel and all 2/3 of that huge annual volume @ $100 price leaves this country tax free, which also leaves this country jobless, debt ridden, and headed for disaster. The $80 of1/3 we produce also goes to the monopolists.

So, if you’re really a professor, please profess something factual and useful to the citizens of our nation! If we enforced antitrust laws & treble damages, the debt would disappear and this nation could afford enough energy to make this nation prosper again. The Arab shrieks would be back riding camels instead of blowing up our embassies!

Why not create a real revolution & start teaching the Constitution as written, free enterprise, investing in and growing our nation instead of looting and destroying it? Why not call a liar a liar and teach the virtues of truth and humility required to correct mistakes instead of deception and hate?

Suggested reading for those who believe that regulations are about saving us from Big Business:
http://www.amazon.com/The-Big-Ripoff-Business-Government/dp/0471789070

DaveH…i’ll let Jeremy answer on his own, but my comment is…you didn’t read the article did you? LOL … do you ever read some of the stuff you post links to ? Almost inevitably, the title is catchy, and the article itself is so far off what you proffer it as…it’s laughable.

Now…care to answer Jeremy’s question? Oh wait a sec…you can’t. because you haven’t a frippin’ clue….

You mean answer your question (Flashman aka Jeremy)?
For those who don’t know that Flashman, the Administration Shill, is just one of many personalities exhibited by the same demented Liberal Progressive person, see here:
http://personalliberty.com/2011/05/16/what-now/#comment-341969

Body blows to Obama? He must have watched one of those edited videos that we find on Republican sites. Romney was clobbered or at least he took the most punches which doesn’t “make him the smartest man in the room” . Another fantasy story??

Dave here is my issue. I associate regulations with safety rules, pollution prevention and providing benefits to workers. Such things are costly but I feel that the safety of workers and consumers, the protection of the environment and workers benefits are important issues. I feel it is a worth while investment. At the same time I see government regulation as being like a police force or watch dog against white collar crimes. In the case of the wall street mortgage crisis there were no serious regulations on the table. The wall street men tanked our economy because what they were doing was not illegal. So for me it appears that our economic recession was due to lake of government regulation, not too much. Like any watch dog regulation can be over zealous and abusive. But the idea behind doing it and the act of doing it is not wrong. I want Mr. Romney to specify. He always speaks in generalizing terrms about closing government offices, laying off government employees and cutting all the regulations he says are so excessive. His enemy appears to be regulation itself. I believe overzealous and abusive regulation is what his enemy should be.

Jeremy likes to deny that he is just a personality of Flashman, but here I caught him cold:
http://personalliberty.com/2012/10/15/phony-numbers-phony-recovery-phony-president/#comment-732147
So, I’m talking about Flashman hitting the McDonald’s hot spots and Jeremy answers “Actually Dave I much prefer In N Out”. Then, in typical chronic liar fashion, he makes some lame excuse for answering my comment.
Have you ever known a chronic liar who admits his lies?

What kind of sickness would lead a person to assume multiple personalities on a board?
I mean besides the fact that he is a Progressive.

Dave I admit I was stupid to answer that comment. From now on lets stick to facts. I am Jeremy Leochner. I have no other personalities. I never have. As I respect you I ask you to respect me.

Dave’s fixation on Jeremy being Flash is really getting boring, isn’t it? Like a dog with a bone.

Karolyn. I second your motion for Dave to stop his name calling. All in agreement say Aye? DaveH Your name goes into the looney bin, Now no one has to listen to your ranting.

It’s not a fixation, Karolyn. It’s fact. You may not be bright enough to catch on, but other people are.

Dave – I told you once before that Jeremy Loechner is a real person; of that I have no doubt.

Also, Dave, one would have to be a professional fiction writer to be able to write in two such diametrically opposite styles at the same time.

jeremy, while not correct on many of his statements is far more intelligent than flasshman; except of course when he blames bush, cause we ALL know this mess we’re in is bush’s fault; don’t we?

Redbull I am an independent. I want to base my vote on facts. Obama did not kill the keystone pipeline. Both Mr. Root and Mr. Romney said he did. I see that as disingenuous and misleading. As for green energy the idea is to get us off oil and fossil fuels which are a finite resource. Its not a hippie tree hugging big government scheme. Its an issue of reality and practicality. Fossil Fuels will eventually run out. We need to start developing alternative fuel sources sooner rather than later.

You people who are all for the pipeline and also stand up for individual rights need to read about this great grandmother who “trespassed” on her own property to try and stop the pipeline in Texas. So I guess when it suits your agenda, eminent domain is OK, right?

oops! Forgot the link.
http://blog.nwf.org/2012/10/keystone-and-the-cops-grandma-arrested-defending-her-land-from-pipeline/

Clinton was a democrat, you make no sense.

I believe he was replying to “Jeremy” (aka Flushman).

Jeremy and Flashman are not the same persons so why play up that non issue? I Guess you don’t think much!

How is factchecking a propaganda blog. Also I am not a business owner. I am a college student who works for a living.

OneGuess: My real name is Jeremy Leochner. I have never been flashman or anyone else. I believe enough in my argument to be honest about who I am and not use fake names.

“NO” means all therefore it would include Libya, it is you whom is misquoting.

He sure did so please watch the Rose Garden video.

One thing I would point out is during the Presidents speech in the rose garden he made mention of 9/11 attacks and he specifically used the word attacks. He also used the word attacks in describing what happened in benghazi. He equated the two without specifically stating it. For me it seems more important to catch the people responsible rather then focus on specific wording. It sort of seems like the President said our ambassador was killed and people are criticizing him for not saying our ambassador was murdered. Its the same difference. What matters is how the president acts to catch those responsible.

Jeremy Leochner says: “One thing I would point out is during the Presidents speech in the rose garden he made mention of 9/11 attacks and he specifically used the word attacks. He also used the word attacks in describing what happened in benghazi. He equated the two without specifically stating it.”

Then why did Obama’s UN ambassador go on all the Sunday talk shows saying it was a spontaneous reaction to a video? Why did Obama refer to the video six times during his speech at the UN? Something doesn’t add up and Obama thinks he’s slick enought to get away with it.

Momo.
There were attacks and demonstrations happening at many US embassies on that day. A few days after 9?11, that seemed to be a valid reason. The Benghazi attack proved to be something else. But it is not out of the questions, that at that time, it seemed to be a plausible cause, since that was the cause at the other embassies.. I watched it daily on the various new sources and it was evolving every day.

Come on guys, his comment was tenuous at best, even Jeremey implied it as so.
If you put 100 english teachers in a room and had this discussion, I wonder which way the vote would go.

Either way I contend that it was not unequivical as I previously stated and though I can admit that the reference had an ambiguous connection, it still came across as squishy.

But what I seem to be hearing is that you all are treating this as an absolute positive that was unequivical. Now how can you really say that considering the narrative for over two weeks afterwards. It doesn’t make sense.

So Nick, I take it you don’t believe in our Constitution? Because that is the primary purpose of the Tea Party. Demanding adherance to the US Constitution. I am interested in your answer.

I am always baffled how most (I guess I have to use the term liberals here) liberals denigrate the Tea Party without any real reason other than their agenda seems to disrupt the tilt towards socialism.

What a choice propaganda piece straight out of Dems/Progs/Leftist Playbook, your daddy-o Alinsky would be so proud of you to be so brave to post on this forum.

What, exactly, do you dislike about Alinsky? What, exactly, do you know about Alinsky? Clue: he was different from Trotsky!

Ted G says:
October 18, 2012 at 11:28 am

Your not responding to his post. The Tea Party would have us believe the Constitution is something it is not and that is what they want to adhere to. Nt the constitution. Example Obama care was decided constitutional which they claimeed it was not and many other examples could be quoted.

Jeremy and Nick,

Sure is nice for a change on this site to see two whom site the real facts and care about the truth. Thanks

Smilee says:
October 18, 2012 at 11:58 am
Ted G says:
October 18, 2012 at 11:28 am

Your not responding to his post. The Tea Party would have us believe the Constitution is something it is not and that is what they want to adhere to. Nt the constitution. Example Obama care was decided constitutional which they claimeed it was not and many other examples could be quoted.

Yes, Obamacare was declared constitutional under the government’s taxing power, in other words its a tax. Something the current administration denied.

Nick, what Romney and Obama both had to say have been fact checked.. Obama comes out loser in the debate. Now go drink your Kool Aid.

? “Nick, what Romney and Obama both had to say have been fact checked.. Obama comes out loser in the debate. Now go drink your Kool Aid.” or you go drink yours .

Romney’s claim that Obama would raise taxes on the middle class by $4,000 has earned him three Pinocchio’s in the past.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/election-2012/wp/2012/10/16/fact-check-romney-misleads-on-middle-class-taxes/

Mitt Romney is attempting to redefine the middle class ~ and guess who’s not invited? ~ Most Americans.

Hi Doug. What is the intent of you saying to “Go and drink your cool-aid” Is this supposed to be a pejorative dis? Your name can go into the looney bin as well.

I know that it is difficult to rate a debate precisely. It is like a boxing match, that different judges will read it differently. The GOP see Mitt as the winner, because their dictionary is different then the Dem’s dictionary. I think that all of the different polls and pundits came out that Obama came out ahead in this debate. I’ll bite it was not a rout. Mitt blew Obama away in the first one, big time. Haha I think that Obama was shell shocked with the new improved Moderate Mitt. He didn’t know how to deal with it. He was all prepped for the extremely conservative Mitt.
But more of the fact checkers had Mitt with the longest nose.

Smilee says:
October 18, 2012 at 11:58 am

Smilee, there wasn’t anything in his post to respond to, it was all just the typical rhetoric, and his opinion which he is entitled to.
I responded to the thing that jumped out for me and that is this automatic demonization of the tea party, I simply find it rather unseemly to continue with a baseless attack against a large group of American citizens that are very concerned about the direction of this country.

And I do think there should be a discussion about the role of the federal government and the Constitution. Article I section 8 to be precise. Enumerated powers etc.
You can’t seriously think we can continue with 1.1 trillion dollar anual deficits do you?
And the 1% crap is not only getting tired it won’t even come close to answering the problem. Hey you can be a socialist if you want it is a free country, you just can’t do it with my tax dollars. There has to be limits and I always thought the Constitution defines them pretty well.

Ted. I appreciate your defense of the Tea Party. They seem to think that only they are true patriots and the rest of America is not. I blame them for much of the stalemate in Congress and the derailing of any progress there. I blame them for threatening to not increase the debt limit and threatening the US to default on their payments. This in turn caused the US to have its credit rating lowered. I think about the how these extreme members of congress have pulled the usually conservative thinking members to the far right. I blame them for thinking that extreme measures to get the deficit reduced would cause another recession in the USA. It is heading in the right direction and all economists agree that our huge deficit cannot be cured in one year. It needs a slow and deliberate process.
I also do not like how they have brought Abortion back, front and center into this election, that will also be the undoing of the GOP in this election.
I resent how great GOP congressmen have been replaced with some nut jobs like in Indiana, Massachusetts and Missouri that will cost the GOP this election. It is good to have some detention and a different viewpoint, but they have gone too far to the right and too extreme. Last, their unwillingness to make any compromise has hurt our recovery and this has hurt the USA. It is responsible to slowing the recovery and prolonging the hurt that is everywhere. Any American that is willing to sabotage our recovery is not a Patriot, they are traitors. So I do not want to ever hear them calling themselves Patriots again. They are the farthest thing from being “Patriots”.

momo says:
October 18, 2012 at 3:53 pm

Smilee says:
October 18, 2012 at 11:58 am
Ted G says:
October 18, 2012 at 11:28 am

Your not responding to his post. The Tea Party would have us believe the Constitution is something it is not and that is what they want to adhere to. Nt the constitution. Example Obama care was decided constitutional which they claimeed it was not and many other examples could be quoted.

YOUR RESPONSE:

Yes, Obamacare was declared constitutional under the government’s taxing power, in other words its a tax. Something the current administration denied
.
MY RESPONSE:

You are wrong, in oral arguments before the supreme court in this case the solicitor general for Obama administration argued that it was a tax under the taxing power, they also argued they could impose the mandate under the commerce clause, the court said no to the commerce but yes to the taxing authority, Roberts wrote the majority opinion and he was real specific on this. Have you read the opinion????

Ted G says:
October 23, 2012 at 9:02 am

That is a complete cop out!

Smilee, Oh? Which part?

I mention the US Constitution and you attempt to dismiss me. Talk about a cop out!

rose says:
October 18, 2012 at 11:42 am

“Terror attack” vs “ Terrorist attack” the difference is splitting hairs as both mean the same, this is what he said not anyone’s interpretation of it, your spinning does not change that.

“Smilee” you can call it splitting hairs if you wish, that is how obama uses the english language. The facts are that obama continued to blame the attacks on the video for two weeks after even his own staff stated that it was “obviously a planned attack”. In his speech to the UN he repeatedly placed the blame on the video.

I will focus on your statement Rose: “He did not call it a terrorist attack. He called it a terror attack.”. I saw a clip of the Presidents speech. He mentioned the 9/11 attacks and he used the word attack, not terrorist attack. And immediately after he used the phrase of acts of terror to describe both 9/11 and the attacks in benghazi. He was equating what happened on 9/11 with what happened in benghazi. To me that seems like enough.

Ok Jeremy if he was equating Benghazi to 9/11, why did he allow Ms. Rice to tell the media that it was because of the video? Why did he let her say this if he knew it was a terrorist attack. Why did he and his flunkies not let her Know? His whole administration was saying it was because of the video. If he knew it was a terroist attack, why did he let the media continue to spread the lie? Because it was politically motivated.

Jeremy, here’s a lttle tid bit on the debate you might be interested in reading.
http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2012/10/16/Romney-big-winner?utm_source=e_breitbart_com&utm_medium=email&utm_content=Breitbart+News+Roundup%2C+October+17%2C+2012&utm_campaign=20121017_m113710477_Breitbart+News+Roundup%2C+October+17%2C+2012&utm_term=More

Surely even you can’t believe anything on a site that uses the Breitbart name.

“No acts of terror” No means all so that would include this act of terror also, you keep inserting words between the lines that he did not say, it is called spin, Mr. Spinner

Well looky here, it’s Smilee…err excuse me, Attorney at Law Smilee. You can twist it whatever way you like Smilee, but what I said is a fact, not made up and not home spun.

In your circle, “it depends on what the meaning of is is”.

jeff, really, you want us to read breitbart.com for your proof…..might as well quote from redstate.com or gop.com why dont you find a non partisan site to back up what you say…..i wouldnt believe anything I would read on breitbart.com

Breitbart,Trump and Corsi were rabid Birthers. The movie 2016 dispels that continued myth. I would encourage even Liberals to see that movie and the hypocrisies in the Republican Party and their hatchet men. They have Democrats hatchet men beat by a mile!

This is in response to Smilee (the brain washed). If he, 13 days AFTER his Rose Garden speech, openly calls this a reaction to a video and provides that as the ONLY answer to what happened in Libya (on September 25th in front of UN- 6 TIMES, did not mention terror or terrorists but just a spontaneous reaction to a video)… does that mean anything to you? Does it mean anything that 4 Americans were KILLED and the main culprit is covering his wrong doing with lies? Nixon was impeached for covering up, but no lives were lost. Does it bother you that those people served you and were left high and dry in harms way? And even after they lost their lives, serving our country, in his mind they don’t deserve the truth to be told. Becuse winning to him means more than human lives! Keep in mind when you blabber that those families lost (unnecessarily) their loved ones. But New York Times is finding everything more important to write about. No front page news about his lies. What happened to journalists who would have left no stone unturned to find out the truth? Why are media so against the truth? Becuse in every dictatorship, media are there to support the dictator and they don’t care about the facts. When the facts are hitting the hard core liberals over the head, they chose not to see them: 16 trillion debt, 23 million unemployed – not including those who stopped looking for a job, 47 million on food stamps, government aka leeches at out throat with spending and stealing from us every which way, universal health care that is going to cost us $2500 more a year, covering 300M of people by the same number of doctors that could not cover 200M… Especially that no doctor was ever asked whether he/she is willing to work for free. Children graduating from colleges that cost 60K a year and sitting home jobless. And all he can think about is to give amnesty to illegals.. to get hispanic vote. Obviously what he is doing has not helped us, but harmed us, our children, grandchildren and generations to come big time.
Do you get it at all?

Observer. Everyone is forgetting the fact that when the attack took place in Benghazi, there were 4 protests at American embassies around the mid-east. there they were because of that silly video. On the first reports, there was an assumption that the Benghazi one was also the same cause. Mitt the Twit was looking desperately for some cause, that he could gain some political capital. So he immediately jumped on it. What he and the rest of America needed to do was to just let the investigations come up with the facts. But that was too slow for Mitt to gain any political capital. So there was a daily demand for an answer, when the facts were not there. The conclusion is out. the GOP should let it go, as there is nothing there for them. It is a dead horse and the GOP have nothing to gain to keep flogging it. They need to concentrate on what Mitt will so for America, in stead of “Trust me., vote me in and then I will tell you what I will do after the election” He has lied so many times and changed his position that most Americans know, that we cannot believe what he is saying, on a day to day basis. What Moderate Mitt is saying now, cannot be depended on when the Tea Party controlled congress enacts a new law. He will rubber stamp it.

Jeff he used the word attack. Its like the president said our ambassadors were killed and now people are criticizing him for not saying they were murdered. He said what needed to be said at the time. What matters to me is what he did in response to this attack that he did not specify was a terrorist attack. Its more important to respond to an terrorist attack then to label it a terrorist attack. I will not deny the administration dropped the ball in the days after ward. However I feel the President did not respond to the attack in the manner Mr. Romney said he did.

Jeremy and the rest of you naysayers…you much prefer political doublespeak and vagueness vs directness.

As for Breitbart.com…the truth hurts sometimes and it isn’t alway pretty but it’s still the truth and the truth cannot be changed.

eddie, glad you believe “2016″ was favorable to Obama…keep spreading the good word.

com·pre·hend [ kòmprə hénd ]
1.understand: to grasp the meaning or nature of something

FYI, whether he was or was not born in Hawaii is a moot arguement, Obama is still not, nor has he ever been, a “natural born citizen”. That’s not a birther issue, it just a fact.

Our politicians, that’s yours and mine, have denegrated and trampled on the Constitution repeatedly and that is where my concerns lie.

Jeff: The President called it an act of terror. This is not an issue of political double speak. He called it what it is. What matters are his actions. If we are being attacked which is more important:For the President to call it a terrorist attack or for him to respond to the attack. He made missteps in the days afterward but on the day after the attack he called it an attack. I believe that that is good enough.

Jeremy, not even close. In his 9/12/2012 Rose Garden speach he specifically said “No acts of terror”, not this terrorist attack, not this act was a terrorist attack, and not “the US ambassador was killed by an act of terror or a terrorist attack. Obama was intentionally vague, that’s how he operates, that’s what he does. Obama is seldom specific and when he is he generally, much like Biden, sticks his foot in his mouth. Almost every politician is non-specific for a reason…it gives them room to twist and turn when the heat is turned up.

Note, folks, that the Liberal Progressives (Jeff, Johnny, Eddie) chosen form of debate is ad hominem attacks on Breitbart.com. It’s the time honored approach that the average Liberal Progressive must resort to since they have very few logical arguments to make.

Saying that a site using Breitbart’s name is likely lying is not an ad hominem attack; it is a fact. [comment has been edited]

Jeff H and Dave H should go out on a Vaudeville tour with their fine illusions!

Oh? So you can provide us proof of that, Jeff?
Until you do, I will just assume that you are a lying [expletive deleted].

The deleted expletive was just a quoted word from Jeff’s comment.

Observer says:
October 18, 2012 at 1:21 pm

Why so bent out of shape???? Four deaths are really terrible but they pale in comparison to 4000 deaths in Iraq in a war we should never have started (That says nothing about the suffering of the wounded and the huge expense) and the marine barracks bombing in the Reagan years that killed I think it was 267 and there are others including the twin towers and Bush even had warning something terrible was coming and ignored it. No one jumped on Reagan within two hours or Bush on 9-11 as Romney did on Obama and most supported Bush in his determination to attack Iraq. This was also based on bad intelligence and based planning but the consequence were a 1000 times worse than this. Romney’s shoots first and ask questions later, this not the american way, we have always supported our President whom ever it was until the facts where know. That should be of real concern as he wants to be commander and chief, scary right!! PUT IN THE RIGHT PERSPECTIVE!!!!!!

Absolutely. When the Republicans are in office, they act like any opposition from the Democrats is tantamount to treason while they actually commit treason daily in the name of “patriotism” when a Democrat (particularly Obama) is in office. Republicans think nothing of giving up the identities of CIA and other top secret personnel so long as they think it gives Republicans a political advantage/

Exactly Jeff! ~ that quite a record any patriot AMERICAN should be ashamed of. The GOP sold their soul to the devil back then and I’ve yet to hear anyone inside the GOP party willing to acknowledge what elected GOP statesmen have done. Scooter took the wrap and went to jail while Chaney was mad at Bush for refusing to pardon him. ~ Probably the only right thing 43 did in 8 years.

I would not trust the GOP party with a stick of gum. The GOP has a lot of fence mending to do ~ and they show no interest in it at all.

This site is beginning to lose my interest ~ we use to have some stimulating meaningful debates ~ the new blood introduced of late has the banter dumbed down so, the banter suffers.

The current most active posters are back to name calling and attacking the messenger again and not addressing the thread topic.

The GOP finds itself today not having a “RECORD” worth even trying to defend have made a conscience effort to avoid even bring their record up .

The same people that brought us George W Bush now trots out Willard with suitcase full of fabricated lies, have truths and talking points.

I was talking to a friend today, ~ 63 years old, retired, ~ we were helping a mutual friend with a yard sale. ~ He made a 190,000 last year in market investments ~ and the Tax paid on this amount of capital gains? $300.00 dollars. ~ Even he said ~ that just not right ~ that things are really screws up. He says, what is he suppose to do? ~ give it back?

Mitt Romney thinks there should be no tax on capital gains what so ever. ~ So who is going to help pay to run our government?

Hard working people that don’t have the money and never will have the money to invest in speculation and play the markets, ~ that is who. The working generation that follows us.

This current taxing structure can not be sustained without a welfare system to back it up or there will indeed be a revolution. A revolution comprised of empty bellies and bad attitudes, ~ it’s just a matter of time.

If the GOP don’t want a welfare state and don’t want to offer the American people an equable taxing structure ~ there will be civil unrest that will ultimately lead to a civil war. There will be a storming of the castle gates and anything viewed a the establishment. ~ This will require all Americans to choose sides and it won’t be pretty.

All these people living in their ivory towers today will be carried out and disposed of. A grisly thing to ponder. ~ I do not encourage or support such behavior ~ but they will not be asking you or I what they should do.

Vote Mitt Romney and see how much closer we will be to such a day.

It is truly frightening that even with the demographic advantages the Democrats have and how ridiculous the Republican positions are, the election is so close. I think Obama will win because it looks like either Ohio or Virginia will put him over the top, but Romney is an absolute fraud. His economic plans look like they were drafted by his personal CPA. Have we ever had a candidate so nakedly pursue his own economic interests? I think not as all wealthy candidates in modern times (except McCain) have favored higher marginal tax rates and government action. It’s true that JFK lowered taxes, but they were at 91%!

I think we’ve discovered why Romney won’t release more tax returns. It has to do with his hidden profits from the Delphi Auto Parts deal. Read this by Greg Palast. I have read a couple of his books and seen him speak at a Unitarian Church and he is great. He started as a financial investigator so he knows what he’s talking about. He’s an American but works as an investigative reporter for The Guardian.

http://www.democracynow.org/2012/10/18/greg_palast_mitt_romneys_bailout_bonanza

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casualties_of_the_Iraq_War

Charting the course to $7 gas:
http://mises.org/daily/5223/Charting-the-Course-to-7-Gas

The US Energy Information Administration stated that the principle factors affecting gas prices are”
The cost of crude oil
Refining costs and profits
Distribution and marketing costs and profits
Taxes”-http://www.eia.gov/energyexplained/index.cfm?page=gasoline_factors_affecting_prices

Whats interesting is that they showed a graph which said that as of 2011 68% of what we pay at the pump is related to the cost of crude oil. And on that they stated “The cost of crude oil as a share of the retail gasoline price varies over time and among regions of the country. Crude oil prices are determined by both supply and demand factors. On the
demand side of the equation, world economic growth is the biggest factor. One of the major factors on the supply side is the Organization of the Petroleum Exporting Countries (OPEC), which can sometimes exert significant influence on prices by setting an upper production limit on its members, which produced about 43% of the world’s crude oil in 2011. OPEC countries have essentially all of the world’s spare oil production capacity, and possess about two-thirds of the world’s estimated crude oil reserves. Oil prices have often spiked in response to disruptions in the international and domestic supply of crude oil.”.-http://www.eia.gov/energyexplained/index.cfm?page=gasoline_factors_affecting_prices

So 68 percent of what we pay at the pumps is do to something the president has no control of. And on the subject of taxes which is 11% as of 2011 as opposed to 21% from 2000 to 2011 they pointed out “Federal, state, and local government taxes are the next largest part of the retail price of gasoline. Federal excise taxes are currently 18.4¢ per gallon. As of July 1, 2011, state excise taxes averaged 22.7¢ per gallon, and 12 states
levied additional state sales and other taxes on gasoline. Additional county and city taxes can have a significant impact on the price of gasoline in some locations.”http://www.eia.gov/energyexplained/index.cfm?page=gasoline_factors_affecting_prices”

So the area the President has the most direct control of is smaller than it once was and the state contribution to the tax is on average 4.3 cents higher then the federal contribution. And that is not including the county and city taxes which the President cannot be blamed for.

The President can certainly act to help the economy and lower gas prices. However I would say the vast majority of what can cause gas prices to rise are due to things he has no control over. And this is from people with expertise in Energy Information.

What does that have to do with ordinary business, Karolyn? Imminent Domain is wrong, but you can thank the Big Government that you support for that.

And maybe you could enlighten us. If you think taking other peoples’ real property is bad, why don’t you think helping yourself to other peoples’ money is bad?

Well, Dave, aren’t conservatives for the pipeline? Do you get it?

If you think taking other peoples’ real property is bad, Karolyn, why don’t you have that same sympathy for taking other peoples’ money?

True Conservatives would not be for Imminent Domain abuse. Personally, I think that Government should not be able to use Imminent Domain to secure land for private companies at all, and even for public use they should have to pay 1 and 1/2 times the market value of that property so that the dislocated owners would have plenty to buy new property with.

Hey, Creepy Bastard. If you’re going to assume a superior pose because you have some Austrian to cite for everything, you could at least get the terminology right. It’s “eminent” domain, not “imminent.”