It is no secret that Romney is simply an extension of Obama, He was placed into the GOP with the assistance of the MSM because knowing that there must be 2 parties the liberals wanted to dress Romney in a Republican suit knowing that his true intentions are left leaning. The old adage: “you put lipstick on a pig, but it is still a pig”, holds true here. This is no secret, but even still, We have to deal with what we are handed and accepting the lesser of the 2 evils is Romney. Obama has not and never will hold his allegiance to this Country by which he is not a part of this Country and only wants to be a part of its transformation into a 3rd world Country by which he is more familiar to.

Romney on the other hand was not raised and brainwashed to be a socialist /communist radical as Obama was raised and his wife was raised to be proud of her Country her whole life not just if and when her husband is elected to be President as Michelle Obama has lived her life in a Country by which she has never been proud of until she was able to ride her husbands coat tails into a lavish and luxurious lifestyle on the tax payers dole, only then has she become proud of her Country for the first time, knowing that the tax payers will hand her countless lavish vacations and clothing for her as well as all her friends on the tax payers dole. How many people congregate around lawyers and attorneys because they simply like their attitudes and character. Anyone with half a knowledge of lawyers and attorneys know they all lie on a daily basis and the only reason one cares to be around them is to mooch off the money they have stolen from their clients and County commissioners.

How many of those friends that Moochele picks up the tab to whisk off on lavish vacations on the Americans dole would still be friends with her if she wasn’t in the White House with access to unlimited vacationing funds?

Here is an example of Democrats particularly Holders theory of mind control and brainwashing used in every aspects of Americans life.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gYyqBxD-3xw

Look at RealClearPolitics (RCP) data. They AVERAGE all polls even the right leaning ones like Rasmussen and Fox.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2012/president/us/general_election_romney_vs_obama-1171.html

Check out the electoral college tab!

Wildfire, On Nov 7th you will then know these polls were right on

A lot of good points there.
Certainly Romney is merely the lesser of two weasels.

All depends on your point of view, dry or wet.

6)Remove all rights of illegals and their anchor babies! Their not American so why should they have them in the first place

You lost me there LC ~~~~~~~~~ babies are just babies guilty of being born ~ we got 13 and 18 yer old anchor babies. I understand what you are attempting to offer but it get more complicated then you might think.

There is a argument of law that is somewhat odd regarding rights and access that could possibly apply.

To openly and willfully ignore a right or law or a violation for years and then one day jump and attempt to enforce it does not fair well in a court of law.

for example; You can not deny someone access to their property by denying them access to yours.

and for the record, ~ there is no comparison between between MItt Romney and OBama other then the fact they are contender for the same position.

If you would like to see people that made 250,000 per year claim the distinction of being “middle class” Romney is your kind of guy.

You could at least wait until October.

What is unbelievable Kay is that conservatives swallow this BS they get fed from Breitbart, Fox, Rush and the other right wing loon sites. There is a very good reason why Tricky Mitt won’t go into ANY details about his fiscal numbers.

If you want war with Iran? Vote Romney

You want the banksters to have a free hand? Vote Romney

You want greater debt? Vote Romney

WE have see what conservatives have done with all the power (see 2001-2006) and the record is pathetic.

You can’t shine up that turd.

Dave – You could say the same things and substitute ‘democrat’ and ‘Vote Obama’ and still be accurate.

Haven’t you yet gotten that all serve the same bosses?

Are you a slow learner, or just blind?

JC,

Sorry if you don’t like the conservative record for the past 30 years…. oh… thats right… when conservatives get into power and spend like drunken sailors and show their complete incompetence.. they are no longer conservatives… they are neo-conservatives because conservatives are never responsible.

So predictable and wrong.

I rest my case.

You have to make a case before you can rest it JC.

See if I were to make the case you are talking about….

I would make it like this.

The GOP claims the Dems spend money like its going out of style but when given their opportunity to show their fiscal responsible metal… They fail…

Case in point…

Ronald Reagan NEVER submitted a balanced budget

Second case:

George W Bush and the GOP Congress from 2001-2006. Exploded our debt with wars, tax cuts and pork.

So the GOP accuse the Dems of what they do themselves…

Does this help you out JC? You seem more confused than usual.

He doesnt get that he has become that which he hates,JC.
That is most hilarious……
Thanks for the laugh KG.
Everyone can serve as an example…even if its a bad one.
Cheers!
-CC.

Dave67 says:
September 25, 2012 at 2:34 pm
You have to make a case before you can rest it JC.
_____________________________________________________________
I rarely argue with cancerous traitors to the US…you’re just not worth it.

JC – Good policy. It does no good, anyway. We now have the inmates running the asylum, and those who defend liberty and the Constitution being called mentally ill and dangerous.

Talk about upside-down. Wonderland…where nothing makes sense anymore.

Oh JC, who died and made you judge of who is patriotic and who is a traitor to OUR country?

A whole lot of farmers and shopkeepers died and left all of us patriots with with what I believe is the finest legal document in history as our barometer by which we patriots may sit in judgement of all of you who advocate Big Government and collectivism.
And judge you we will.

John DeLellis says:
September 25, 2012 at 9:51 am

Bush was the creator of the mess, It is Obama’s misfortune to have clean up his mess, and we all know it never takes as long to make a mess than it does to clean it up. This mess will take 10 years or more to get us back to normal regardless of whom is in office, Many far right call him the messiah and apparently expect him to perform miracles which no human can. If we would have had a congress willing to help improve things rather that to have as their priority to make him a one term president no doubt things would have been somewhat better by now but still no where near being back to where we were before the 2007-9 deep recession. Clinton said the answer was “Arithmetic” and that would clear up a lot of the fog so prevalent on here but that not only takes a knowledge of math but an open mind and as long as so many do nothing on here but rant and rave that’s not likely to happen at least here.

I above post was suppose to be in response to Steve E

Steve E And I suppose you want us to forget about Hitler and the holocaust?

No, ~ It’s your fault for supporting the SOB and a administration of liars and thieves for 8 drawn out long years.

Smilee says:

September 25, 2012 at 10:29 am

John DeLellis says:
September 25, 2012 at 9:51 am

Bush was the creator of the mess, It is Obama’s misfortune to have clean up his mess, and we all know it never takes as long to make a mess than it does to clean it up.
________________________________________________________________________

Are you referring to the sub prime melt down that threw the entire planet into financial turmoil? The one that was started when The Clintons and their Kenyan pal took the reins off of Fannie and Freddie and let everybody who could sign an X borrow money? You know, so that they could ALL own a home? What a great Liberal policy that turned out to be…Accept that it was a ticking time bomb that Bush inherited and now the same Kenyan low life that helped instigate it is doing his best to blame the guy that inherited HIS mess.
What a bunch of Propogandist BULL you people are spewing.

JC says:
September 25, 2012 at 11:52 am

Boy are you one mixed up confused dude!! First the concept of bundling and other toxic bank instruments was hatched at Citigroup and spread throughout most of the world, True in started in the nineties with full support of the GOP and Bush with most of his years with a GOP congress only made things a lot worse with it coming to a climax in 2007-8. In his eight years in office he had time to stop it but did nothing but make it worse until his last year when he started to see it for what is was but then it was to late and he had no choice but to turn the mess over to Obama. Obama did inherit his mess and only a fool would say otherwise. Even many republicans admit that. You can voice your own opinions but you cannot create your own set of facts only a fool does that. You come off as a real fool!

1977 – Democratic President Jimmy Carter Passes “Community Reinvestment Act,” or CRA, designed to encourage banks to reach out to low income communities by offering loans to minorities and the poor.
1995 – Democratic President Bill Clinton revises CRA by making banks meet a quota for a certain number of low income loans. He also increases punishment for banks that dont loan enough money to low income borrowers. This forces banks to write lots of loans that they would not otherwise have written, because the government is forcing them to.
1999 – Democratic President Bill Clinton signs and endorses the “Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act,” or GLBA, designed to make banks profitable in good economic times, as well as poor economic times. The bill allows consumer banks (think checking accounts, savings accounts, etc..) to merge with insurance companies and investment companies, so they all can make money. BUT for a bank to qualify to be a part of the program, you had to have a high CRA score, meaning that you had to have a lot of loans written to low income people. The government was effectively telling banks that if they wanted to be allowed to make money off of the investments of the rich, that they had to also be lending money to the poor. Nice in theory, but look where it has gotten us. Now we are a nation with a bunch of people losing homes they never could afford, and a bunch of banks collapsing because nobody can pay them back!
Thanks Democrats

JC says:
September 25, 2012 at 6:04 pm

Like I said before you are confused and lack the real knowledge of the 07-08 economic collapse as none of what you cite are the reasons for it, it was toxic bank instruments of various type that began in Citibank group and they had nothing to do with these laws. The repeal of Glass Stegal did though and Senator Dorgan during debate for repeal said if we repeal it we will have a collapsed economy within ten years, that was in 1999 and he predicated it correctly, this was a bipartisan vote and Clinton signed it but Dorgan and some of the democrats did not vote for it.

I’m not in the least confused. I posted facts. You’re posting conjecture.

Right wing blogs site are an alternate universe when it comes to discouraging factual information and prefer to create their own, in particularly how we managed to find our nation in such a mess. Finding it better for them to direct our attention to 1813 and the creation of the FED with great clarity and excel with factual information at this point and time in history while W’s more current, 8 year tenure from 1990 to 1998 is very fuzzy to them.

This “Pin the blame on the donkey” is a lots of fun and they have developed a excellent strategy of denial, end run plays, bate and switch, guilt by association, making erroneous claims that vary from playful embellishments to bald face lies to avoid debating one of the largest National and International debacles and embarrassments in American History.

They simply are not ready to discuss it, knowing that any attempt to defend the undefendable is a loosing preposition, as grown men and women, they would rather stick their fingers in their ears and sing La La La La La until you offer a subject they are willing to discuss. ~ or they will get very nasty and hurt your feeling, which of course is a mere ruse of a distraction to lure focus off topic.

Stupid is a powerful weapon!

I have little doubt, ~ this degree of dysfunctional behavior displayed is inherent, preached, practiced and emulated by a solid 30% of self labeled conservatives and is actually manipulated and used by the remaining 70% like you might employ an attack dog with no teeth but a big bark and growl.

Can you recommend one , you know , the one you have been visiting for years.

Certainly ! Mental health is not an accident. In a world full of dysfunctional people, don’t take good mental health for granted, it takes work and effort as the walking wounded are all around you attempting to pull you down to their level, as misery truly does love company.

Please Sir, this is not about you getting SS checks. It’s about getting your checks after Obama gets in . He has spent all our money and is printing up billions more. Fake money! The big ,”0″, has never made a dime in his life. He just knows how to spend other people’s money. He has sent our money all over the world . Your kids or my kids will never see it. He has spent 31/2 times in 3 years as Bush spent in 8. At least Romney is a pro. At creating a lot of money and 1000′s of jobs. What would you rather hear; There’s no more money, Folks! Sorry no checks. OR, OUR ECONOMY IS BACK ON TRACK, MY AMERICAN FRIENDS. YOUR CHECKS WILL NOT BE INTERRUPTED!! there coming on time.

Tom, Jon, John. Lots of big talk going on. Facts are we killed all our manufacturing jobs. People today work at McDonalds so they can eat at KFC. This summer I took a temporary job 250 miles away to work 10 weeks. Can’t live there, knew it was temporary, like 90% of all available jobs today. What next? Drive 2 hrs a day for $8 hr part time? What happened to my real job? fired for refusing to falsify federal records. That company has been hit 3 times since with medicare fraud, etc. Lots of people want to work, but where? Something is better than nothing? Tell that to the electric company… tell them that you only are going to pay 1/3 of your bill because you are only making 1/4 of the money. See how that works for ya.

Nadzieja Batki
Let’s not confuse anyone with the facts.
Let’s all join hands, recite Rush and Sean propaganda, and sing Hitler marching songs.

Obama proposes raising the top rate for people making over $250,000 in adjustable gross income from its current 35% to 39%. This was the top rate from 1993-2001 when 24 million jobs were created under the Clinton adminstration and more millionaires were created in the United States than in its entire history. So much for this “draconian” top tax rate raise.

President Obama just wants to return American tax rates on the rich to the level they were when we had relative prosperity and a relatively healthy economy, that being when Clinton was President. He does not claim that would fix everything but it would help a lot. He would also NOT throw us into two wars (one completely unnecessary) on borrowed money.

Mark that Boom in the Clinton Tech Bubble was when it Blew up in 2001 right after Clinton left office so his economic policy was Unsustainable too just like Bushes and Obama s going in the wrong direction too None of these guys since Reagan put to work economic policies that promoted First food supply expansion so that the rest of the supply productions could be sustainable and so the Bond Holders have not stayed invested for the maturity of the Investments because they watch the data and see the trends of policies that these idiots have been implementing and know that it doesn’t add up . The problem is as long as we are trying to engage the international markets with supply production we need a Reagan type of economic policy that promotes Food related supply expansion and at the same time bring the debate about the world population growth being unsustainable and that means we have to educate the populous about finite earth and show them the USA and developed Nations working model for sustainable growth through a capital economic system that rewards thoughtful effort in self reliance .

Dude, Obama could confiscate their entire WEALTH and still not dent the deficit.

And for those calling for Clinton-era Tax Rates – fine… as soon as we return back to Clinton-era spending (Fed budget: $1.6T, NOT $3.6T!)

The top tax rate may be a modest (by world standards), but as we have seen Flip Romney pays less than 15% and maybe a lot less.

Once again in English….

The top tax rate at 35% is quite modest (by world standards). As we have seen, however, Flip Romney paid less than 15% for the years we’ve have actually been privileged to see.

Norm its funny that Europe with some of the highest tax rates is more broke than we are so how is raising the rate going to curb the debt if spending is not controlled ? Here are some tax rates that show countries with lower rates than the USA which are growing more than we are . The goal of the Liberal machine is to have more control over the rate of consumption and that means they need more control over the capital flows all to appease the environmentalists who see earth dying from a Free market self reliant Capitalist economic system . This is why they hate capitalism so much , but its all a Lie those nations who embrace capitalism are more efficient due to a higher quality of life so we all should be promoting the capital, system not claiming it never has worked like Obama does all the time . Its doesn’t work because they won’t convict those who abuse it , like Their Buddies John Corzine !!! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tax_rates_around_the_world

Weak minded subhumans are so jealous of the rich, they even have the gall to say that the rich should give them some of their wealth. What narcissism. People like that don’t even deserve the time of day.

TONY, if the richest 10% in this nation gave 100% of their actual net worth to the government……. that would not pay off the national debt and run the government with a balanced budget.

People comprehend this………16+ TTTrilion debt and growing by the second…….. a trillion is a thousand Billions….. a Billion is a thousand millions…… a Trillion is a million millions….. that is more net worth than all the millionaires in this nation combined. Grasp it, chew on it, can this system be saved???????

Gary, I hate to tell you this, but you don’t stop a war by saying I quit and walk away unless you want to lose more people after you quit than while the war was officially going on. This isn’t a game of marbles or pickup basketball, where the worst thing to be hurt is your pride. If there is no negotiated end, every man, woman, and child who supported us would be prime execution targets, as would our troops as they gathered their stuff up to get ready to head for home.

Yeah Nelsons right , why isn’t Obama and Holder putting that Thief John Corzine in jail ??? And what about this inside job cleaning up off the backs of the American Peoples whoas of Inflation in their daily needs , http://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/23/us/politics/ties-to-obama-aided-in-access-for-exelon-corporation.html?pagewanted=all

I am actually too young to receive any entitlements now. But when I retire in 15 years I do expect to receive at least some of the Social Security and Medicare benefits that I will have paid into for 51 years of my working life (I first paid into SSI when I was 16 and will be able to collect at 67). I’m sure given the demographic trends, these benefits will be reduced from what was promised but this is just a fact of fiscal life that all of us will have to deal with.

Sounds like a great America to me.

I’ll take it a step father ~ you believe that you would like a America without pesky opposition but then it would not be America and the root of your unhappiness will be there with you where ever you go. You are using opposition as a crutch, an excuse for your unhappiness.

This belief that it is other peoples job to make you happy is common among unhappy people. It’s referred to as immaturity. People do not mature at the same rate of growth, some refuse and never mature despite their years, which shows up in various degrees of dysfunctional behavior.

If everyone was mature and accepted the responsibility for their presence, actions and behavior there would be little need for “Law” ~ Laws that define dysfunctional social and civil behavior by YOU SHALL NOT or YOU SHALL commanding personal responsibility.

That we have grown people today that will engage in unscruples behavior and defend their actions, saying there is “No Law Against it” are the people that need a world , a nation, a state, a cell all their own.

Amen friend, God is always right and the reason we have the leader we do is to judge this nation who has turned their backs on Him.

You people would be frighting if it wasn’t for your alligator mouth and hummingbird a$$.

I’m glad we live in a nation of laws where we can defend ourselves from such people if it become necessary.

The first republic died when honest Abe Lincoln suspended the Constitution. World history has shown that as people who have nothing, know nothing, and want everything are allowed an influence into government, it becomes oppressive and destroys the economy. The dumbing down of America has created a society that few if anyone under age 55 can explain the simplest workings of government and economics. Facts are that only responsible adults should be voting. Pure democracy is evil.

quote; “Pure democracy is evil.”

the same could be said of capitalism

I tend to view such “words” defining ideologies as only tools. Tools that we use to craft, create and govern.

It is not the “Tool” that is evil but the user of the tool can employ it in an evil way.

Guns, hammers, saws, NAFTA have no inherent evil about them .

Where by it is the user were all evil lies.

Have you been involved in the grass roots of the Republican Party? If you haven’t I suggest you go cry over the spilled milk in a corner, and keep your mouth shut about subjects you apparently know nothing about.

Capitalist at Birth, why would I want to be involved at the grassroots level with a party who has shown me time and again it has NO respect for me and mine. If it were up to the Republicans, the fact that I served in the military would be a point of shame rather than pride, as for all the noise they make about needing military services, they have NO wish to actually fulfill the contracts they wrote. Mostly, that involved lifelong access to medical services, at NO cost to the service member, or a decent retirement that wasn’t used to take away from other earned retirement funds. The same party who wants every one to pay for their own education, unless you already have enough money to do so, then you should be offered every opportunity for free. The Republican party no longer represents the small businessman or woman, just the moneyed people who don’t have to worry about how they are going to make payroll over the next couple of months.

That’s telling it like it is Chester. Bravo ~

The GOP is a hyjacked party ~ and the crazy thing about it is , there are three separate groups attempting to hyjack the same train. I’m looking for the forth,~ the counter hyjackers.

But you are right, if the GOP sells you a battleship with 16″ guns and you pay up front for it, they will deliver you a leaky rowboat with one cracked oar and a BB gun and act shocked that you might be unhappy with your fine purchase.

I was very surprise the day when the VA directed me to the County Hospital, I admit 20 years had passed since I had separated from the service from a war zone. I had not needed any help tell then, as I had not encountered any injure or illness too large to handle on my own. ~ I’ve never been back.

Dear Progressive Liberal Commi Scumbags,

You should check out some places where the folks share your interests. I’m thinking North Korea. I wish I could say “it’s not you; it’s me;” but I really can’t. It isn’t me; it’s really you.

Sincerly

The American People

While I love this article and feel much the same way, I wonder how many conservatives have actually taken the time to hear what the Left says about us. It’s shocking.

Even on these threads, the Lefties say the most outrageous things. Like how we want to end social security and throw our grannies to the wolves, how we hate kids and like poisoning food and water in the name of industry. How we hate gays, moms, the poor, the environment, and everything else they use to promote their victim ideology.

Is there anything wrong with tossing around some NEW ideas, that might work better for everyone? Sometimes the way things have always been has proven inefficient and even gotten out of hand, and it’s worth looking at some new approaches. It does not mean that anyone gets thrown to the wolves.

The Leftist leadership outright LIES about the right in order to propagandize and garner votes. And, I suspect, a lot of lies are coming out of the Right, too. Keeping up the fight is the name of the game and, while we are squabbling, THEY are are tearing down the very foundation of our society.

What if we stopped listening to THEM, and had a heart to heart? You know, see if there is any common ground upon which we could build a relationship. If not a marriage, at least be able to live in the same country. But this can’t happen as long as the in-laws (out-laws) are allowed to interfere.

I know, it’s hard because we don’t speak the same language. But that is because our minds are wired differently. I say one thing, you hear another. We live in altogether different paradigms…. But could we both subscribe to, perhaps, a new paradigm, where we stop listening to those with a whole ‘nother agenda that actually excludes US and come up with something that works for us both? And the family, too.

Well, maybe not. But it’s at least worth thinking about.

Warrior, I just saw an article on a poll that says Obama if leading in 9 our of 10 key states. If that is half way right it will not be rout for the repugnuts. You are watching too much faux noise! Remember “sweep” hannity predicting the Republicans ‘sweep’ in 2006??? Yeah , fight!! He missed by a mile!

What ever the ills of America are it does seem that a majority of Americans see Romney/Ryan policy as the cure! Wonder why?? Ronmey can’t seem to decide what it is he believes!!!He is the only person I know who has been on both sides of the “Is chocolate good” question???

Having you and Crystal on the other side is quite comforting!

Matthew 26:52

King James Version (KJV)

52 Then said Jesus unto him, Put up again thy sword into his place: for all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword.

Kate8, gotta agree with you.

nc…you’re just a product of Bob’s column from yesterday.
Monkey see, monkey do!

Warrior -
What you see in China is what the Republicans and their sycophants dream of doing in America. A “slave society” where workers grind away for the pleasure of those at the top. China is the PERFECT example of Republican/Libertarian/Religious Right government.

KG, whoever is paying you to be here deserves a refund!

Polly want a cracker? baaarrraaaccckkkk!

I actually know some obama supporters. I actually know some democrats. One actually was the head of the party for the whole state, now just for his county. When asking these people about o’s history and politics, health care, etc….. their usual answer is “he’s the leader of our party”. There is NO logic in yellow-dog-democrats. They are like the Terminator in the original movie. They can’t be negotiated with, they can’t be appeased, they can’t be killed. They will continue on their assigned quest until it is done. period.

Population control. First you start with the muslims who have more than one wife and are supposed to put forth 10 children from each wife, that is why they populate so fast an area that they move into. Doesn’t take long with 40 children and usually those 40 children are on welfare of some kind because papa cannot afford them and mama is not allowed to work because she has to take care of the fold.

KC – so please if you will, without insulting comments and name calling, answer me a couple questions:

American people have borrowed, and still owe our creditors, more than $15 trillion dollars. Which is more than any nation IN THE WORLD has ever borrowed. It’s more than ALL the bankrupt European countries currently owe. It’s 5 times what the government brings in in tax revenues each year. We are currently spending $2.4 trillion in transfer payments and interest on the debt. That doesn’t include any other functions of our government. Meanwhile, we’re only collecting $2.3 trillion a year in income, payroll and corporate taxes.

We are adding $1.5 trillion per year to the DEBT which equates to .$43 on every dollar. Our average annual deficit from 2000 to 2008 was $190 BILLION, but since 2008 our annual deficits have been $1.3 TRILLION. We have had no budget since Bush refused to sign the last Democratic budget before he left office.

So how do you purpose we pay this off or pass a balanced budget amendment?

How long do you think it will be before we can no longer pay the interest on the loan?

In the past three years, the U.S. monetary base—which is defined as the sum of currency (including coin) in circulation outside Federal Reserve Banks and the U.S. Treasury, plus deposits held by depository institutions at Federal Reserve Banks—has tripled. They don’t actually print the money they buy bond and treasuries (they buy our DEBT) with money created out of thin air.

Obama and the rest of the big spenders will tell you that the deficit doesn’t really matter all the while they are devaluing the dollars we hold. It’s called inflation and it hurts middle and low income people and those with savings the most.

So since the Democrats gained control of congress in 2006 our government has been binging on “free money” and your dollar is worth about 21% less than it was in 2008.

So do you really believe that the Democrats have your best interest at heart?

There are 30 jobs bills currently in congress and every single one of them is held in the Senate by DEMOCRATIC leader Harry Reid who believes that they should not have to make hard decisions in and election year.

Is this really the type of leadership you want for your country?

What’s supposed to happen is people go back to work and pay taxes. When we have a functioning economic system, only then can we even think about cutting spending. Would you rather have “tax and hold?”

Look at our spending during WW2. It was through the roof! almost at 120% of GDP. So, how did we get out of that mess? Well, for starters, after the war, government spending DID NOT decline due to the Russian threat. However, our unemployment rate was still low, so lots of people were paying taxes allowing the government to actually pay off the WW2 debt.

How could Johnson fight the Vietnam war AND go to the moon AND end his presidency with a SURPLUS?

We have been fighting TWO UNFUNDED WARS and giving drugs to old people to keep them voting Republican.

Obama is right when he says “…we just have a fundamentally different view of the world.” My world includes liberty and justice for all, while your view gives liberty and justice to land owing white Christians.

KG, it did take you a while but you finally got your real “racist” views out…”land owing{owning?}white Christians”

It’s very obvious that you don’t have a clue about real “liberty & justice”…but you’re very much in tune with Obama’s ideology of fundamental change and “social justice”…Marxism/communism/facsism/socialism/progressivism.

we have been played, there is not any difference between republicans & democrates, the clear winner of nov election is Goldmen Sach, the global elitest bank that supports both parties and canidates. the only way out of this mess is to become self-relient, grow your own food, get out of debt, learn what wild plants are edible (weeds), stop supporting your master and he will go away

Actually the population is too high now. We need a birth rate below ZPG.

Frank the USA as well as all Free Market trickle down Capitalist economies are sustainable population growth if you enforce Immigration Laws . Look at this chart ,
https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/2127rank.html

This guy is advising Obama along with his Eugenics Globalist who Obama has as Science CZAR , listen to his reasoning , the Idea coming out of his thinking is wrong because the USA is already a Sustainable population growth Model the CIA chart shows this .
http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2012/apr/26/world-population-resources-paul-ehrlich

Frank the USA as well as all Free Market trickle down Capitalist economies are sustainable population growth if you enforce Immigration Laws . Look at this chart ,
https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/2127rank.html

This guy is advising Obama along with his Eugenics Globalist who Obama has as Science CZAR , listen to his reasoning , the Idea coming out of his thinking is wrong because the USA is already a Sustainable population growth Model the CIA chart shows this .
http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2012/apr/26/world-population-resources-paul-ehrlich

frank milnar, how do you suggest the population is brought down to manageable levels? Sneaky of you to work side by side with the likes of Population Control groups across the world and coming on this site to con.

The two parties have been run by the NWO Globalists for fifty years. GldmanSachs and the Rothschilds are all a part of the Global takeover. They are not going to just go away. We The People have to find a way to get rid of them. Here’s a thought. Why don’t we all just go on the dole? They’ll run out of money taking care of us. The problem with Socialism is they eventually run out of other’s people money.

Running out of money will mean we have ran out of food supply and that ends in concentration camps and genocide we have history to tell us this truth .

Tony and all others: The Earth can only support a limited number of people before silly things like lack of resources cause a problem. It seems to me that we should live within our resources, and that means population growth has to stop sometime. In my opinion that should have already happened.
Nadzieja Batki: How to control the population? Education, less heated rhetoric, and acceptance that we do not live in an unlimited world.

Frank is whats going on in India the right way to go about controlling population growth ? http://abcnews.go.com/Health/women-pregnant-girls-pressured-abortions-india/story?id=15103950

So,Frank,when are you commies that think the population is too high going to set the example and take yourselves out of it?Or would that be too much like spending your own money on the things you want?
Typical lefties,always expecting somebody else to suffer or pay the way for their ideals.

Frank – that over-population thing is a myth propagated by people who want to rule the world and need fewer people for better control. THEY want all of the prime real estate for themselves, and that mean WE have to exit.

In truth, only a small percentage of land is populated. People are herded into cities, and it looks like too many people that way.

And, as someone stated, America’s population (especially in the denser states) is due almost entirely to immigration. Had we not flung open the floodgates, we’d still be in a fairly wildland country. Even as it is, much of America is open land.

In addition, starving people is not the answer. It’s already well-known that the more prosperous people are, the fewer children they produce. If you think reducing the population is such a great idea, I invite you to volunteer yourself and your family to be the first to check out.

Technologies already exist to provide free energy sources, abundant food supplies and healing technologies far beyond what is foisted on us. They have kept these things hidden in order to keep control of the wealth and the power.

The PTB are already killing off the people in Africa and other third world areas with diseases and famine. The rest of us are being poisoned by air, water, phude, radiation and “medicines”. What they are creating is a toxic planet unfit for any life. I guess they have something in mind to correct this when we’re gone… I don’t know. Hopefully, there is cosmic justice and they will kill themselves, as well. No doubt Mother Earth has her own preservation methods.

Kate8 – one of the major reason for our lack of jobs is that our population is growing faster than our jobs creation. That could change if we revised our immigration laws like Canada and some other countries. They only take people that can support themselves and that have something to contribute.

We, on the other hand, have been importing poor, under-educated and uneducated immigrants for years who consistently have more children than they can afford and are mostly on the public dole in some for or another.

Meteorlady – You are right. And this has all been done for the purpose of our ultimate destruction. We, too used to only allow people who were culturally compatible and able to contribute. The third world influx was part of the bankrupting, degradation and division of our nation.

We’d have jobs if Americans were allowed to be innovative and create businesses without excessive government regulation, as it once was. Now, those who have had enough success and can afford it, go to China and places where the regulation is minimal. This, too was intentional, as businesses were given incentives to move overseas.

Anyone else is penalized for being innovative, and it’s nearly impossible to build a business in today’s economic climate. What they want is for us to SUFFER unto death.

Yes, this is planned destruction of America, and Obama is paying lip service to “job creation” while he continues to put people out of work. He’s just following the plan which those before him have brought to this point, and his job is to sound the death knell.

RIP, America.

Avery likely solution to the country’s financial problems is to eliminate all of the federal agencies that are NOT authorized in Article 1, Section 8, of the Constitution. Along with them remove all of their “regulations that are enforced as if they are LAW.” This must include all government give-aways that are not authorized by the Constitution. Congressional give-aways, which are only “vote buying” must be included in the termination.

AS almost all of the agencies that would be affected were only a federal theft of state agencies that still existed, this should be much less disruptive than it will be portrayed by the liberal socialist press in both print and other media.

Bet u r 1 of the dumb ass school teachers.

Dear Amy, real estate in N.Korea is really cheap. Plus all that you hold dear is enforced there. I knew this will sound attractive to you.

Ignorance is bliss, eh, Amy/

The dumbing down of the population is done by the Democrat party. Everyone know that.

Vic, you seem so sure of the value of real estate in North Korea, and the fact that it is only going to go up in value, so why don’t you move there, where everybody is expected to have the same ideas, and follow the PARTY line? Your GOP is no longer so grand, but it IS old, and IS a party. no wonder so many of the youngsters are walking away from it. I haven’t heard a NEW idea since Ronnie, and most of the ideas he had as president, he had kicked up and fleshed out as governor. All I hear from the Republicans is cut welfare, make social security a welfare program, then cut it. Cut, cut, cut anything that will actually benefit anyone other than the rich and famous, then make sure they have to pay for nothing they use.

Chester, you don’t like the “old ideas” of capitalism, freedom, self-reliance and democracy? I know they aren’t as attractive to the entitlement crowd as the “New Deal”, socialism and facism, but at least in our way, the average man has an opportunity to be successful if he is willing to work and take risks. With your way, it depends on your relationship with “der furer” as to what future you are granted. I like the America that our Forefathers envisioned.

Chester – it’s called work, work, work… hands & body in motion, mouth shut, eyes & ears open, no fece on the lettuce… & you won’t have elect a crook to steal for you.

If everyone was a democrap, there wouldn’t be anything left to steal. That’s when your leaders discover things aren’t working & it’s time tighten the noose – put those who can’t work out of their misery, psychopaths to the enforcement platoons, & hinnies high, thumbs in the mud, & no time for whoopee with the one in front for everyone else! Survival of the fittest & genetically engineered workers who can stand a lot of feces in the lettuce and life!

Books that are in the school systems across the country are not written by Republicans. Are you wishing that people on PLD don’t know what is going on or won’t check?

Amy, I am not a republican, because I find them to be as arrogant, controlling and as anti-American as the democrats, so please don’t go there. I am an American and I abhor the agenda that both parties are forcing on “we the people”. I would greatly appreciate some support from you and your associates in the fight against those who are pushing our constitution, freedoms and liberties out of the picture. Believe me, its both parties along with the shadow commie elites who who want everything we have earned and possess , so its a situation of stick together or die. You know, it doesn’t matter if you are rich, poor, middle class, protestant, catholic, mormon, feminist, gay, straight, black, white, pro-life or not, because they are after ALL OF US. They only respect the environment (only for their pleasure), wealth, power, control and DE-POPULATION. Figured the last one might get your attention, so forgive the caps, but surely take note. As the old saying goes, “there’s safety in numbers”.All I ask is that you just be an American and hold dear the principles that allow you to spew trash on this website.

You sound like a demoncrat

To amy, you are another stupid person, who will help this scum bag president destroy our country. you should crawl back to the hole you came out of

Amy,ever hear of the psychological term ‘projection’?I’d bet you have,as you and KG have it down to a T.

So Amy, Reagan was old and senile. What does that make Obama? An arab-muslim- commie soros-puppet?

Kay – Now that is the most honest and truthful thing said on this whole thread.

That is the bottom line now, isn’t it.

Kay, very well said!

And just where did you come up with this, Amy? Out of your own confused head? President Reagan still had his intelligence and memory during his term in office. He was not diagnosed with Alzheimers until 5 years after his presidency ended. Better get your facts straight before opening your mouth and showing your ignorance.

Nadzieja: Most educational books (school) are written up and published in your home state of Conservative Texas. For you to not know that might be a reason we need population control.

Amy – I suggest that you state some facts instead of insulting. What exactly is wrong with the article? You can’t come up with anything intelligent to dispute the article so why bother to answer?

Amy, opinions are not facts. You need to do a heck of a lot of UNBIASED research. Or just go back to the Occupy meetings.

Doc, Thank YOU!!! You have just shown everyone on this site what is wrong with the triple D Democrats! Your 23 year old son should be working by now and have his own insurance, sorry but they have to grow up sometime! God help us with these people who think the Government has to take care of them and never take responsibility for themselves, in other words DEMOCRATS! Republicans GO OUT and vote in November!

You should pay the appropriate rate to add your son to your policy. What is wrong with your paying the rate appropriate for your preexisting condition? When you have a poor driving record with maybe a D.U.I. or something else, do you not pay higher premiums? You want a free ride on the backs of others I guess. Eh Doc?

People who depend on government for their needs are weak minded and have characteristics of that of a subhuman.

Doc, If or when Obamacare kicks in there are so many people on welfare, medicaid and unemployment just whom do you think will be paying for Obamacare? The vast middle class. I shouldn’t say vast because its’ getting smaller and smaller. The smaller it gets the more each of us have to pay. If you don’t pay the IRS comes for you. If you don’t pay the tax then the fee for not paying will increase each year that you don’t pay. The price of Obamacare will increase each year. Watch how much your taxes are going to go up with Obamatax. This will be the greatest increase on taxes in American history. Didn’t your mother tell you nothing in life is free. Someone has to pay.

Well I don’t have a 23 year old son. But 23 year olds often have entry level positions with small firms that do not offer benefits or pay enough to purchase insurance.

Capitalist at Birth
Insurance companies charge huge amounts (unlimited?) to get insurance when you have a pre-existing condition. Only the well off can afford care in that world. Oh, that’s right. That is what you are going for – no care unless you are well off.

Steve E
ALLLLLL of us depend on the government for various things.

Capitalist at Birth, exactly what IS the appropriate rate for someone with diabetes, or heart disease, or even epilepsy? All of those conditions are grounds for, not charging and exorbitant premium, but denying any coverage at all. Go in and talk to an insurance agent and tell him you have had a heart attack before he quotes you a price and see how fast he says sorry, can’t help you. As far as that 23 year old child still at home, might ask why he is there before saying he should be working and have his own insurance.

Doc. Romney says he will keep some things that he likes about Obamacare. One is pre-existing conditions and keeping children covered until 26 years of age. Romney/Ryan will rework SS so that it will exist for other generations. If Obama continues on his path, there will be no SS. I said no SS, zero, zilch.

SarahR
The middle class is shrinking because the top 1% is concentrating the wealth into their pockets – less money to go around for the workers.

Doc it was Clinton that signed the most unfair trade Policy ever to have took our self reliance and wealth creation away since Reagan and The Republican Leadership was first opposed to it then changed so they got bought off by those in China that Clinton was buddies with , all need to be jailed for treason against the USA . Its was the end of GATT that wiped our small business out , and they all were involved with not enforcing the free floating currency rule too that continued to out source our Tool and Die manufacturing to the point of Total Dependency on foreign parts suppliers that now are calling for an end to our Dollar as trade currency since WW 2 . This is a Failure to uphold the sovereignty of the Dollar and the citizens who depend on its solvency to prosper and create their needs !!!!!

SarahR
Romney has been all over the map on what he says he will do with Obama/Romney care. Ultamately, he will do what will further concentrate the wealth to the top 1%.

23 year old son? Exactly when do you expect him to grow up and get a job?

He may have a job (low paying with no benefits) or he may be in school (I don’t have a son myself/or a 23 year old – but others do). This young adult may also have serious health issues.

doc – wean the kid – throw his worthless butt out & he might get hungry enough to work instead of mootch. Send him to Cuba!

By your comment, you say you have a 23 year old son. So which lie do you want to stand behind.

Doc: I have worked since I was 13 yrs. old, paper route, got up @ 6 am delivered papers came home, ate, took a shower and went to school. Worked part time at the school as a janitor when I received my working papers @ 15. When I turned 16 I also worked @ the school full time during the summer and graduated when I was 17. worked at school full time. When I turned 19 I came off my Dad,s health insurance, got a job at a metal fabricating shop sweeping floors and grinding metal and paid for my own health insurance. Worked at several jobs, got married had a child and went to school full time and received my RN Degree. Worked for 30 years, paid into the system since I was 18 and I am now totaly and permanently Disabled unfortunately because I loved my JOB. I collect SSD and my own private Disability that I paid into for years. This is how it is supposed to work. So maybe your 23 year old could go find a job, any job and contribute to his day to day living and maybe even contribute to your houshold and learn a little responsibility. You and tons, of other people probably think this is harsh. But, that is how it works in this country and I want it to stay that way. Not become a Nation of 3rd world wussies!

I don’t depend on government on any level of redistribution of wealth. Nor should anyone. Go humble yourself to a charity if you need something.

sporty12,
And maybe this 23 year old (again, I don’t have one but other’s do) can’t get a job (like many in this economy) or the job they get pays little and does not provide any health care benefits. Looks like things worked out fine for you and that’s great. That IS how it is supposed to work as you said. That is NOT how it always works especially now. Health insurance is very expensive, jobs are scarce, money is being concentrated at an unprecidented rate at the top 1% of the population.

Dear Doc Sarvis,

You write: “Health insurance is very expensive…” And why is it very expensive? Government meddling. http://www.econlib.org/library/Enc/HealthInsurance.html And more government meddling through Obamacare will not fix it.

Government (the true 1%) is also why jobs are scarce.

Best wishes,
Bob

To Doc, well put my ASS, idiot, you are only concern for yourself, when this so called president is through with our country, we will all have the worst healthcare for this nation, just like these third world countries, I bet your ASS on it, just wait and see stupid!!!!. It is people like you that will help this communist dictator obama scum bag kill our country, MORON!!!

@Doc Sarvis, if you really want to be healthy:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6jRKfAvwg0s

Jobs? 50 years ago when the first Jap radios were coming into the USA, Grandpa said “If we don’t watch out, someday all our stuff will be made by all those little gooks and we’ll be sitting here on welfare buying their crap.” Gramps was a prophet.

Doc says “Well I don’t have a 23 year old son. But 23 year olds often have entry level positions with small firms that do not offer benefits or pay enough to purchase insurance.”

Hmmmm, what’s wrong with that picture?

1. entry level position? Isn’t that pretty much how working life begins…at the bottom…you don’t start at the top, you work your way to the top! Key word: “work”.

2. Benefits are part of the “perks” offered by all companies, big and small. Benefits and high pay is not a requirement and if a company doesn’t offer benefits and high pay, one always has the choice to not work there. Key word: “choice”

It would be nice if the world was perfect and peacefull too…but it ain’t and that’s just the way it is.

Well just think,Doc,under Obamacare,your 23-year-olds will be hit with a “tax” that they can’t afford,right along with the rest of the working poor.

Doc Sarvis says:
“Insurance companies charge huge amounts (unlimited?) to get insurance when you have a pre-existing condition. Only the well off can afford care in that world. Oh, that’s right. That is what you are going for – no care unless you are well off.”

Here is the problem with the debate on health care. The Democrats keep using the tactic of talking about care and insurance at the same time.

Whenever they do that point out that they are LYING.

Doc stick to the discussion on either insurance or care. We will not discuss them as though they are the same thing.

Now if you want to discuss the effect of insurance on the price of care then we can have THAT discussion but it will be a long one cause so few people understand simple economics let alone the effects of Crony Capitalism.

Do some research.
The federal government is the number one denier of healthcare. Far more than the private insurance companies. Almost twice as many claims denied by percentage as private ins. You think ACA is going to pay for you and your son, Ha! Tricked again. You will be paying way more for ACA than you ever dreamed of and good luck convincing some government DMV shlub to make good on your needed care. At least in the private sector you can bring suit, change companies etc.

D.R. is absolutely correct. I have worked (physical ther) for 38 years and there are more Medicare denials than private insurance. And the past year and a half, the Medicare people have been cutting payment to many more PT and skilled hursing visits. It will be worse next year no matter who is elected, already set up. Years ago I could see someone 3 X week up to 2 months, now the same case is more like 5 or 6 visits. And they’re talking about a huge copayment (Medicare) for every home care admission in the near future. Medicaid for home health care for home health care has been drastically cut, too, in New York ( Andrew Cuomo Dem). They have to cut, they added millons of more people to Medicaid so there’s less funding for each.
Most people forgot it was Ted Kennedy who was the big champion of HMO’s.

So, after reading some of the comments here it all boils down to this, someone needs to pay for my hardships in life but it shouldn’t be me! Is that what this is about? I am not responsible, I am not accountable for my life or my situations. Everyone else is.

Too many people today are not responsible for their own lives. They want to make life harder for their neighbors so they can make life easier for themselves.

It comes down to this . you are still not getting it ~ because everyone is being asked to pay and why some are so put out ~ they don’t like being told to do anything.

And another point of contention is not being raised or considered. ~ I hear this “GET A JOB! get a job, get a job! until I’m sick of it. American today is a place that you can have three jobs and drive to the “Poor House”

That today the American people live in a nation of free enterprise and can create a job for themselves and for others if they chose ~ but what do they do? ~ look for someone to give them a job!

Perhaps this dysfunctional mind set was created in part because at one time America had companies like Ford motor company that realized they had to invest in their employees and complete with other employers for a labor force ~ It was from this dynamics of labor / employer that underwriter of heath care worked from. ~ It was these same dynamics that allowed the federal government to offer incentives and subsidies heath care premiums .

THIS HAS ALL SHIFTED, THE DYNAMICS HAS CHANGED, on many levels . That many of you refused to take these changes of American companies shift of priorities and demands into account is being nothing less the obtuse and obstinate.

1. supply & demand forces now great favor employers.
2. employers have learned how to skirt rules and regulations.
3. many employers are not require to offer employs insurance at all.
4. they can and will skirt workman compensation laws as well.
5. they have learned to skirt the Jones Act as well.
6. our youth now spend long time in the nest ~ as the expense to move on on their own has sky rocketed since we were children.
7. Henry Ford understood that his work force was consumers of his product and had to pay them accordingly. While today, most of America’s consumer good are imported.

I could go on an on with these “Changes” that have rendered an old way of offering and underwriting and providing medical care as greatly changed in the last 30 years and why changes must be made to offset these market changes.

Until these recent changes, as a small independent contractor I could not even buy health care coverage, ~ I was too small for them to worry with the paper work. ~ My size and age, I was seen as part of the market they did not want to bother with and was not required too.

It good that I am a healthy man and all my dependents have left the nest years ago but how many other Americans have been in this same boat, ~ denied coverage?

This conservative view point is little more the enslaved minds thinking like a house black. ~ “Somebody needs to give us a job!” ~ disgusting!

“When did a poor man give you a job?”

When did a rich man give me a job worth having?

No don’t get me wrong, ~ it was a “Just Right Job” ~ if it had being any better, ~ the rich man would have done it himself and if it been any worse,. I would not have wanted it.

Is this the left wing nut day in here. Has this site been invaded by dis-information specialists/

Doc. What do you have against the rich? Did a poor person ever give you a job? The rich create jobs. We’re in this mess because of Obama. All the rules and regulations he has and is placing on businesses. He wants European Socialism to come to America. He wants to bring us down to the level of Spain/Greece. If this is what you want(European/Socialism)then go live there. I hear Spain is beautiful this time of year.

The rich do create some jobs, they also export a lot of them to other countries (ask Ritt Momney). Most of our jobs are from the middle class which is being squeezed by not having the financial resources available that they used to. This is because more and more of our wealth is being concentrated in the top 1%. I don’t have anything against the wealthy but I am against the wealthy buying the politicians to make the rules that favor themselves over our country and the majority of America’s workers.

Doc, over the last 80 years, which middle class persons created jobs? beyond starting a small service business for themselves? Since 1900, 96% of the jobs were created by big business investing millions in infrastructure to MAKE something. Now we don’t make much, its all made out of the USA. Sure businesses moved, because our socialist government insisted on sucking all their money into the tax-welfare-gov employee system. Government kills manufacturing…… except for the war machine.

Doc Sarvis says:
“The rich do create some jobs, they also export a lot of them to other countries…”

I seem to remember progressives whining that we were not doing enough to bring jobs to third world countries and now you are complaining because we did?

There is just no working with you guys.

No it must be the Capitalist nut day which you developed at birth!

edit error – Plague Known as the Democratic party

WILDFIRE says:
September 25, 2012 at 8:56 am

Dear Democratic Party

Since you had gotten your union job and making what you felt was a decent wage while your union bosses were making a killing of you (literally), A decent wage worthy of affording you to a buy a 800 sq ft home, in the meantime while you was shelling out part of your “decent wage” to the union bosses to help them purchase their million dollar mansions, I was working jobs by which I was making a decent wage and I didn’t have to shell out to union bosses rather I was able to put that money into savings account and investments by which allowed me purchase a 2200 sq ft home to provide for my family.

Response:

Killing!!! Jimmy Hoffa the highest paid teamster earns $294,000.00 a year a mere pittance compared to the CEO’S he negotiates with, no union leader is making a killing. Hoffa being an attorney could make a lot more practicing law than president of the union. Union wages according to the dept of labor whom tracks all wages reports that union members earn on average $800.00 per month more than non union workers which is almost $10,000.00 a year more. Could you save $800.00 a month?? Your post is nothing more that a lot of whining about nothing as most of what you speak is sadly devoid of any real facts and mostly BS. I know many union members whom own homes as large as yours, Also as a retired Union Member between my corporate pension negotiated for by my union is quite large and because of my higher wages over the highest 40 quarters my SS pension is much higher than non union because of that. My income not including anything besides my pension equals a bit more than my wages at the time I retired. How many can retire without a cut in pay, very few if any non union and not all union. I see union dues as an investment and I’m sure my return from those dues exceeded your personal savings. Why so many like yourself see dues as a negative when it produces a lot of positives and why those like you seem to hate the better lifestyles union members enjoy and see it as a negative. I see many of my friends my age today really struggling but they never had the financial benefits from being union, Also union members are not eligible for so many welfare programs that non union workers today have to have to survive. Earned income credit was started by President Ford,, greatly increased by President Reagan in 1986 and during the welfare reform done after 1994 when the nation voted in republican majorities in congress. They expanded them and added a bunch more welfare programs almost all for underpaid non union workers that few republicans complain about because they created them. Admit it, Republicans have created and expanded more welfare in this country than democrats. The solution is much more unions to return to living wages which would then make many non union workers no longer eligible for these welfare programs and automatically reduce our spending without government having to change any laws. If you took off your blinders and look at the whole picture you would see the whole picture AND REALITY.

Looks like Wildfire is correct that the bosses are making a killing
~44,000/year for teachers vs ~500,000/year for union bosses. And this is just 1 union.
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/07/14/teacher-union-bigs-rake-in-dough-despite-budget-cuts-across-education-sector/

As to the comment about CEO’s of companies making a lot more than union bosses, that is because the CEO’s guide the company into making money by selling a good product instead of making picket lines to prevent the company from making money by selling any product.

Reality works that way.

vicki says:
September 25, 2012 at 1:02 pm

The skill set for managing a union and managing a company are considered the same as the number one skill is leadership and this requirement is the same for both . Even at 1/2 million as you assert is but peanuts by comparison, most big corp heads get well over 5 million per years and even at this rate the union leaders paid at the wage you give means the union leader would take 10 years to make what the CEO makes in 1. So it is not a killing if you took the time to look at the whole picture. $44,000 a year for a teacher is an insult for a professional person doing a job that is one of the most important jobs there is. Teachers today are the whipping boys for school failures and as long as the focus is on this we will never solve the problems with our schools today.

Smilee continues to avoid the obvious by saying:
“The skill set for managing a union and managing a company are considered the same as the number one skill is leadership and this requirement is the same for both”

Thus demonstrating the foolish nature of union bosses. Instead of getting paid 5 million a year they CHOOOSE to get paid 500 thousand a year. The laws of economics are quite clear on this. Union boss value 500k (maybe since in many cases the end customer doesn’t get to choose). CEO value 5 million/year.

Now that is out of the way lets look at the union members vs bosses (You know. the point wildfire was making rater than your irrelevant distraction)

Union members 44k. Union bosses 500k.

Vicki says:
September 25, 2012 at 5:37 pm

You do not make any sense!! CEO’s are in a position to garner these high wages for themselves even when they do not earn them and few are worth what they are paid today, Unions on the other hand have much more limited resources and pay what they can to those with skills worth much more but are so dedicated as to do the job even though they can make more in other settings. Like I said Jimmy Hoffa could make much more practicing law but chose to not do that due to his passion for working people and that is something that is sorely missing in far to many work places today and the attitude of CEO’s towards their employees today. Those of us old enough (in the work place before 1980) to remember when companies mostly treated their employees with respect in both non union shops and union shops, today that respect is mostly in the union shops and to judge the wage disparities only on money as you did skews the reality of this subject.

Vickie, using your method of comparison this would be the way to look at
non union Employees: $22,000.00 Versus CEO’s $6,000,000.00 per year, the ratio is many time larger than union member vs union business agent, I say agent because they are no members boss, they are the employee of the union member as they are elected to serve the member. Your knowledge of Unions is very limited. Unions by regulated law are very democratic because of the law and you seem to believe the member is dictated to, nothing could be further from the truth,

Smilee says (to me):
“You do not make any sense!! CEO’s are in a position to garner these high wages for themselves even when they do not earn them and few are worth what they are paid today”

Proof by bald assertion and again attempting to mis-direct away from Wildfires point. However let us for a moment look. Smilee’s statement is obviously false as the CEO’s are hired by the Board of Directors (that would be the customer buying a persons time and expertise as CEO). If they truly were not worth the money paid then the board would not hire them. This is simple economics and takes little proof (lest I be accused of proof by bald assertion myself here is a link http://www.forbes.com/sites/ciocentral/2011/12/05/the-path-to-becoming-a-fortune-500-ceo)

Smilee says: “Unions on the other hand have much more limited resources and pay what they can to those with skills worth much more but are so dedicated as to do the job even though they can make more in other settings.”

Begin your search for how limited the resources are here. http://www.dol.gov/olms/regs/compliance/rrlo/lmrda.htm I used the NEA since it is a large union.

Smilee: “Like I said Jimmy Hoffa could make much more practicing law but chose to not do that due to his passion for working people…”

So since Jimmy CHOOSE to work for less than he could why are you using him and other union bosses to claim that CEO’s are overpaid?

Smilee: “…and that is something that is sorely missing in far to many work places today and the attitude of CEO’s towards their employees today.”

Proof by bald assertion and demonstrably false by the presence of so many employees at companies. Employees get to change jobs if they don’t like the one they are in.

Smilee: “Those of us old enough (in the work place before 1980) to remember when companies mostly treated their employees with respect in both non union shops and union shops, today that respect is mostly in the union shops….”

Maybe if you actually worked (as was more common in the 1980s) you would find companies treated you with respect in or out of unions.

Smilee: “…and to judge the wage disparities only on money as you did skews the reality of this subject.”

Funny. I judged by compensation alone cause that is the only objectively measurable method AND was the point of the discussion thus allowing me to remain on point.

Smilee says (to me)
“Your knowledge of Unions is very limited. Unions by regulated law are very democratic because of the law and you seem to believe the member is dictated to, nothing could be further from the truth,”

I would venture to guess that your knowledge of the fundamental nature of unions is a bit less then you imagine. Even though you said it yourself (“Unions by regulated law are very democratic”) you may be unaware of how democracy works. Should 50%+1 of the members decide to strike then 50%-1 are dictated to and HAVE to strike as well.

This is totally ignoring another feature of Unions. The ability to force a company to force its employees to be in a union.

Now lets talk again about my limited knowledge, shall we?

 vicki says:
September 26, 2012 at 12:53 pm
Smilee says (to me):

“You do not make any sense!! CEO’s are in a position to garner these high wages for themselves even when they do not earn them and few are worth what they are paid today”
Proof by bald assertion and again attempting to mis-direct away from Wildfires point. However let us for a moment look. Smilee’s statement is obviously false as the CEO’s are hired by the Board of Directors (that would be the customer buying a persons time and expertise as CEO). If they truly were not worth the money paid then the board would not hire them. This is simple economics and takes little proof (lest I be accused of proof by bald assertion myself here is a linkhttp://www.forbes.com/sites/ciocentral/2011/12/05/the-path-to-becoming-a-fortune-500-ceo)

IT IS ALL BULL, BOARD OF DIRECTORS AND CEO AND OTHER EXCEUTIVES GREASE EACH OTHER HANDS THAT IS HOW IT IS IN THESE CIRCLES AND NONE OF THEM ARE WORTH WHAT THEY ARE GETTING IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH ECONOMICES BUT OF COURSE THAT IS THEIR COVER FOR THEIR UNETHICAL PRACTICES,

Smilee says: “Unions on the other hand have much more limited resources and pay what they can to those with skills worth much more but are so dedicated as to do the job even though they can make more in other settings.”
Begin your search for how limited the resources are here.http://www.dol.gov/olms/regs/compliance/rrlo/lmrda.htm I used the NEA since it is a large union.

THAT URL DOES NOT TAKE YOU TO A SPECIFIC PLACE AND NOT SURE WHAT YOUR WERE REFERRING ME TOO.

Smilee: “Like I said Jimmy Hoffa could make much more practicing law but chose to not do that due to his passion for working people…”
So since Jimmy CHOOSE to work for less than he could why are you using him and other union bosses to claim that CEO’s are overpaid?

DO THE ARITHMETIC DUMMY IT IS NOT TOO DIFFICULT

Smilee: “…and that is something that is sorely missing in far to many work places today and the attitude of CEO’s towards their employees today.”
Proof by bald assertion and demonstrably false by the presence of so many employees at companies. Employees get to change jobs if they don’t like the one they are in.

YOUR STATEMENT DOES NOT RESPOND IN ANY REAL WAY TO MY STATEMENT

Smilee: “Those of us old enough (in the work place before 1980) to remember when companies mostly treated their employees with respect in both non union shops and union shops, today that respect is mostly in the union shops….”
Maybe if you actually worked (as was more common in the 1980s) you would find companies treated you with respect in or out of unions

. MOST NON UNION FRIENDS OF MINE WOULD DISAGREE WITH YOU AND I KNOW FOR FACT MY NON UNION COWORKES WOLD NOT AGREE WITH YOU, I THINK YOU GOT YOUR HEAD IN THE SAND AGAIN, YOU CANNOT SEE ANYTHING THERE

Smilee: “…and to judge the wage disparities only on money as you did skews the reality of this subject.”
Funny. I judged by compensation alone cause that is the only objectively measurable method AND was the point of the discussion thus allowing me to remain on point.

PURE GARBAGE, MANY HAVE WORK PRIORITIES OTHER THAT MONEY BUT GREED PEOPLE DO NOT UNDERSTAND THAT, THAT IS MOST LLIKELY YOUR PROBLEM



 vicki says:
 September 26, 2012 at 1:02 pm

Smilee says (to me)
“Your knowledge of Unions is very limited. Unions by regulated law are very democratic because of the law and you seem to believe the member is dictated to, nothing could be further from the truth,”
I would venture to guess that your knowledge of the fundamental nature of unions is a bit less then you imagine. Even though you said it yourself (“Unions by regulated law are very democr atic”) you may be unaware of how democracy works. Should 50%+1 of the members decide to strike then 50%-1 are dictated to and HAVE to strike as well.

THAT IS WHAT DEMOCRATIC INSTITUIONS DO, IF OBAMA GETS THE MOST VOTES HE WINS,, IT’S THE GIVE AND TAKE OF LIFE AND A VERY FAIR WAY FOR EMPLOYEES TO GOVERN THEIR WORKING CONDITIONS AND THE UNTERNATVE IS TO BE ENTIRELY AT THE MERCY OF YOUR EMPLOYER AND STATISTICS PROVE AT LOWER WAGES AND BENEFITS AND APPARENTLY YOU ARE ALL FOR LESS WAGES AND BENEFITS AND HORSE$HIT WORKING CONDITIONS, YOUR FREE TO GO AND FIND ANOTHER JOB IF YOU TO NOT AGREE WITH THE MAJORITY.

This is totally ignoring another feature of Unions. The ability to force a company to force its employees to be in a union.

THIS ONLY HAPPENS IF THAT IS WHAT THE MAKORITY WANTS.

Now lets talk again about my limited knowledge, shall we?

NOTHING TO TALK ABOUT IS IT IS SO LIMITED AS TO NOT EXSIST.

“~44,000/year for teachers vs ~500,000/year for union bosses.”

I’m left to assume Vicky, you think that is a valid comparison?

deerinwater says:

“~44,000/year for teachers vs ~500,000/year for union bosses.”

I’m left to assume Vicky, you think that is a valid comparison?

Since the subject as created by wildfire is union members vs union bosses you would be correct. No need to assume. Just read the script.

Hmm? I wonder where those Wisconsin teachers that make $150,000.00 we heard about when?

Smilee yells:
“vicki: “This is totally ignoring another feature of Unions. The ability to force a company to force its employees to be in a union.”

THIS ONLY HAPPENS IF THAT IS WHAT THE MAKORITY WANTS.”

which is rather the point of why democracy is bad and will always fail. Tyranny of the majority is STILL tyranny.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N4r0VUybeXY

Vicki says:
September 28, 2012 at 2:38 pm

Smilee yells: INSERT: THE CAPS WERE YO MAKE IT EASIER TO SEPARATE YOU WORDS FROM MINE NOT YELLING AS YOU SO IDIOTICALLY CONCLUDED WITHOT ANY FACTS

“vicki: “This is totally ignoring another feature of Unions. The ability to force a company to force its employees to be in a union.”

THIS ONLY HAPPENS IF THAT IS WHAT THE MAKORITY WANTS.”

which is rather the point of why democracy is bad and will always fail. Tyranny of the majority is STILL tyranny.

MY FURTHER RESPONSE:

To equate tyranny with better wages, better benefits and better working condition is an insane statement likes which I suppose should be expected from the likes of you. If you do not believe in democracy which what you clearly are saying, then why not go and live in N Korea and experience the alternative.. No one has to work in a union shop in this country they are free to seek employment in a place of their choice but what you are suggesting is that the minority shall rule, that is tyranny and that is what they have in N.. Korea and like countries. Only thirteen percent of the countries workers are in union shops so there are sure many more non union jobs out there. Enjoy your underpaid status and food stamps etc.if you do

Vickie

A republic yes but it is managed by a democracy and that is done by majority vote, we elect our officials that way and use it for many other reasons but always under the law which can also be made and changed by majority vote and the Constitution by super majority, our republic provides for this and as Union election are the law they cannot be tyranny which is done by force without law. To say that this is a republic and not a democracy is not correct as it is both a republic and a democracy as there is know way to manage a republic without a democracy as that is a dictatorial type of government as all government have laws ours are created by the will of the people through their representatives and that makes it a democratic republic form of government

AMEN. Ethics, integrity, and honor are elements missing in people today. Sure, many will excuse themselves by saying that the gov is screwing them out of their hard earned money, others will excuse themselves by saying that the gov is screwing them by not giving them more benefits. I know several people who were self employed for decades, scammed their taxes, didn’t pay their share, and now are bitching that the gov is screwing them because their retirement check is too small. Facts are that “you reap what you sow” and “if you don’t work, you don’t eat” are principles lost in time and politics.

How about “None of the Above”?

Please tell me how President Obama obtained his office solely based upon the color of his skin.

Not solely. If it weren’t for the race card, he wouldn’t have been elected. IMO 20% voted for him just because.

Sarah he is the result of a conspiracy to get an arab-muslim-socialist into the highest position of power in the world. It walks like a duck, talks like a duck, and swins like a duck……it ain’t no hippopotomus.

I have always heard it called the “Peter Principal.” That is being promoted to your level of incompetence.
In this case then, the sky is the limit. Which is funny, ironic, not funny as in haha.
I think I am going to be sick.

Doc Sarvis says:
September 25, 2012 at 10:41 am
Please tell me how President Obama obtained his office solely based upon the color of
his skin.
__________________________________________________________________
Black people voted for him because he is 50% black.
Rich white liberals voted for him because it was trendy and cool to vote for a guy who is 50% black.
Generational welfare recipients voted for him to keep the gig going.
NO ONE voted for him because he was qualified.

But the alternative at the time was pretty much a joke too.
So alll in all we have a political machine that keeps rolling out political hacks.
A media that dresses the hacks up to look semi-credible.
And about 35 /40% of the population with the IQ of a house plant.

The Greatest Country in history…isn’t so damned great any more, is it?

Back to the Constitution and Restore the Republic!

Gordon says; “Not solely. If it weren’t for the race card, he wouldn’t have been elected. IMO 20% voted for him just because.”

If I elected to pander to you Gordon and assume for a minute you are correct, what about the voters like myself, that voted for him in spite of race? Is that a reflection on me or Obama or both of us?

And if we are to get in some pissing contest of who is the brightest among us, ~ I ask you ; Where is all the jobs that the GOP promised would follow by cutting taxes? ~ For if it did actually create jobs as promised by the GOP, what kind were they and where are they and how many do you believe tax cut created?

http://money.cnn.com/2009/01/09/news/economy/jobs_december/

By David Goldman, CNNMoney.com staff writer
Last Updated: January 9, 2009: 12:11 PM ET

ROAD TO RESCUE
Home prices up for 1st time in 3 years
New home sales: ‘Really good news’
Wall Street: Here comes the hard part
7 regional banks fail
Banker: “TARP helped avert a global calamity”

Where the jobs are

NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) — The hemorrhaging of American jobs accelerated at a record pace at the end of 2008, bringing the year’s total job losses to 2.6 million or the highest level in more than six decades.

A sobering U.S. Labor Department jobs report Friday showed the economy lost 524,000 jobs in December and 1.9 million in the year’s final four months, after the credit crisis began in September.

Here is a synopsys of the events Todd wrote about above
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EzWrnUezDOU

The Constitution started into the toilet when ole honest abe wasn’t challenged for his abandonment of the Constitution, oh I am sure the rhetoric sounded wonderful then. Its kind of like the 4 minute mile. When Bannister did it, then others realized they could too. Then more and more and more. God help us all, regardless of who wins.

For sure.

I believe you have said what millions of us are thinking. Ilike it, but the demoncrats don’t

Hear Hear!

Hit to wrong reply above should have been here

Patsy says:
September 25, 2012 at 11:33 am

You have very little knowledge about unions and laws governing them and pensions and laws governing them. The majority of union members have their pension with the employer and all defined contributions are, defined benefit plans in some cases are handled by unions but again most are by companies and the terms are a part of the labor agreement with the company. Pension laws on defined benefit plans are plans require that the company or the union pay into a trust fund that is managed by a third party trustee and neither the union or company have any control over these trust funds. Many years ago the unions and companies did and that was when pension funds were raided. The laws were changed when a company by the name of Minneapolis Moline in Minneapolis went out of business and the pension fund was found to be empty and the employees never got any pension so then Senator Walter Mondale of MN entered a bill in congress to have defined pension trust funds managed by a third party trustee and then neither the union or the company no longer had access to these funds. Hearing about unions raiding pension funds in recent years have been pure political rhetoric for political reasons but none has existed since that bill was passed and I believe it was in the early seventies, anyhow many years ago. The IRS oversee the pension trustees and annual trustee reports on the trust fund have to be made to them with copies to all employees and retirees. I get one every year and have since this law was passed. I have been retired for ten years and my company paid in on my behalf for 40 years prior to my retiring. Last decade the formulas for payment to these funds were lowed so many funds became underfunded and then where found to be underfunded and some employees in these trust funds had some losses that way. Defined benefit plans are paid once you retire each month for the rest of your life and never run out and are insured if they should go bankrupt, this is not true for defined contribution funds which when the reach zero you no longer have a pension and the only ones that unions have are for their own employees, agents office help etc. Defined contribution plans are company plans that the employer matches the employee contribution to a certain defined maximum and plans vary widely as to controls over them. Union contacts have these methods defined in legal binding labor agreements but with no binding agreement then the company usually is free to make all these decisions without consulting with the employee. Corporations are at present experiencing record high profits and sustainability to pay is not an issue despite the fact you continually hear that rhetoric but it is not true Poor men are made from under paid employees of which most are not union members and this contributes very much to why those at the top have gotten so rich. That statement about poor men hiring is nothing but a smoke screen and you should know that.
In the Chicago Teachers strike the issue was not wages as 16% had been agreed to before the strike, nor Was it about not wanting to be held accountable, it was really about the method of determining accountability and that is a legitimate issue. Your statement of Chicago Professionals only making $30,000.00 a year is stupid I fail to see that anyone can believe this BS of yours. I’m sure many in that city make several million a years and most well over 30 thousand. You completely mischaracterize the Teachers strike, certainly you know there are two parties to these negotiations and you automatically conclude that is was teachers fault when the issues still undecided when the a strike began were all legitimate issues and had nothing to do with financial issues This is true unless you are one of those that believe employees should have all issues of employment determined by the employer and then dictated to the employee by them this is synonymous with a master slave type interaction. Then there is those who believe in unions whom despise that type of employer/employee relationships. I can tell you having worked both ways you are respected if you are in a union and seldom respected today if not. Some hate unions for reasons I think they often do not understand themselves or what Unions are and do you certainly don’t.

Your stereotyping , profiling and generalizing was comical alpha-lemming

But Other then comic relief, it’s worthless.

I am a democrat, I have owned many guns and mineral rights, have a flattering DD214, and have four producing natural gas well with in 5 miles of my home and 2 more being drilled.

The last government money that I made or received was E5 combat pay 44 years ago and I have embraced free enterprise and been self sustaining since 1978 and my taxes are paid up current ( it wasn’t easy)

Oprah good ! she does good deeds , self-made and a inspiration to others.

Rossy? other then just large, opinionated like you and noise, I don’t know what she’s good for.

God, that was good!… But can we give them Sarah Palin too?…

Patsy says:
September 25, 2012 at 11:33 am

You have very little knowledge about unions and laws governing them and pensions and laws governing them. The majority of union members have their pension with the employer and all defined contributions are, defined benefit plans in some cases are handled by unions but again most are by companies and the terms are a part of the labor agreement with the company. Pension laws on defined benefit plans are plans require that the company or the union pay into a trust fund that is managed by a third party trustee and neither the union or company have any control over these trust funds. Many years ago the unions and companies did and that was when pension funds were raided. The laws were changed when a company by the name of Minneapolis Moline in Minneapolis went out of business and the pension fund was found to be empty and the employees never got any pension so then Senator Walter Mondale of MN entered a bill in congress to have defined pension trust funds managed by a third party trustee and then neither the union or the company no longer had access to these funds. Hearing about unions raiding pension funds in recent years have been pure political rhetoric for political reasons but none has existed since that bill was passed and I believe it was in the early seventies, anyhow many years ago. The IRS oversee the pension trustees and annual trustee reports on the trust fund have to be made to them with copies to all employees and retirees. I get one every year and have since this law was passed. I have been retired for ten years and my company paid in on my behalf for 40 years prior to my retiring. Last decade the formulas for payment to these funds were lowed so many funds became underfunded and then where found to be underfunded and some employees in these trust funds had some losses that way. Defined benefit plans are paid once you retire each month for the rest of your life and never run out and are insured if they should go bankrupt, this is not true for defined contribution funds which when the reach zero you no longer have a pension and the only ones that unions have are for their own employees, agents office help etc. Defined contribution plans are company plans that the employer matches the employee contribution to a certain defined maximum and plans vary widely as to controls over them. Union contacts have these methods defined in legal binding labor agreements but with no binding agreement then the company usually is free to make all these decisions without consulting with the employee. Corporations are at present experiencing record high profits and sustainability to pay is not an issue despite the fact you continually hear that rhetoric but it is not true Poor men are made from under paid employees of which most are not union members and this contributes very much to why those at the top have gotten so rich. That statement about poor men hiring is nothing but a smoke screen and you should know that.
In the Chicago Teachers strike the issue was not wages as 16% had been agreed to before the strike, nor Was it about not wanting to be held accountable, it was really about the method of determining accountability and that is a legitimate issue. Your statement of Chicago Professionals only making $30,000.00 a year is stupid I fail to see that anyone can believe this BS of yours. I’m sure many in that city make several million a years and most well over 30 thousand. You completely mischaracterize the Teachers strike, certainly you know there are two parties to these negotiations and you automatically conclude that is was teachers fault when the issues still undecided when the a strike began were all legitimate issues and had nothing to do with financial issues This is true unless you are one of those that believe employees should have all issues of employment determined by the employer and then dictated to the employee by them this is synonymous with a master slave type interaction. Then there is those who believe in unions whom despise that type of employer/employee relationships. I can tell you having worked both ways you are respected if you are in a union and seldom respected today if not. Some hate unions for reasons I think they often do not understand themselves or what Unions are and do you certainly don’t.

Thumbs up^^^^^. I worked a union job that paid $35 hr. 80 miles away the same job, non-union pays $12-15. Both are state bid contract projects. mmmmmmmm?

Yes Patsy…that is how greed started…..here is an inch….now we want a foot…..how about a yard….hell we want the whole yard-stick and we will do our own measurements. sacred union rule. “the song, “WE WANT IT ALL, WE WANT IT ALL ” !

I hope this is the right place

???
Patsy says:
September 25, 2012 at 11:33 am

You have very little knowledge about unions and laws governing them and pensions and laws governing them. The majority of union members have their pension with the employer and all defined contributions are, defined benefit plans in some cases are handled by unions but again most are by companies and the terms are a part of the labor agreement with the company. Pension laws on defined benefit plans are plans require that the company or the union pay into a trust fund that is managed by a third party trustee and neither the union or company have any control over these trust funds. Many years ago the unions and companies did and that was when pension funds were raided. The laws were changed when a company by the name of Minneapolis Moline in Minneapolis went out of business and the pension fund was found to be empty and the employees never got any pension so then Senator Walter Mondale of MN entered a bill in congress to have defined pension trust funds managed by a third party trustee and then neither the union or the company no longer had access to these funds. Hearing about unions raiding pension funds in recent years have been pure political rhetoric for political reasons but none has existed since that bill was passed and I believe it was in the early seventies, anyhow many years ago. The IRS oversee the pension trustees and annual trustee reports on the trust fund have to be made to them with copies to all employees and retirees. I get one every year and have since this law was passed. I have been retired for ten years and my company paid in on my behalf for 40 years prior to my retiring. Last decade the formulas for payment to these funds were lowed so many funds became underfunded and then where found to be underfunded and some employees in these trust funds had some losses that way. Defined benefit plans are paid once you retire each month for the rest of your life and never run out and are insured if they should go bankrupt, this is not true for defined contribution funds which when the reach zero you no longer have a pension and the only ones that unions have are for their own employees, agents office help etc. Defined contribution plans are company plans that the employer matches the employee contribution to a certain defined maximum and plans vary widely as to controls over them. Union contacts have these methods defined in legal binding labor agreements but with no binding agreement then the company usually is free to make all these decisions without consulting with the employee. Corporations are at present experiencing record high profits and sustainability to pay is not an issue despite the fact you continually hear that rhetoric but it is not true Poor men are made from under paid employees of which most are not union members and this contributes very much to why those at the top have gotten so rich. That statement about poor men hiring is nothing but a smoke screen and you should know that.
In the Chicago Teachers strike the issue was not wages as 16% had been agreed to before the strike, nor Was it about not wanting to be held accountable, it was really about the method of determining accountability and that is a legitimate issue. Your statement of Chicago Professionals only making $30,000.00 a year is stupid I fail to see that anyone can believe this BS of yours. I’m sure many in that city make several million a years and most well over 30 thousand. You completely mischaracterize the Teachers strike, certainly you know there are two parties to these negotiations and you automatically conclude that is was teachers fault when the issues still undecided when the a strike began were all legitimate issues and had nothing to do with financial issues This is true unless you are one of those that believe employees should have all issues of employment determined by the employer and then dictated to the employee by them this is synonymous with a master slave type interaction. Then there is those who believe in unions whom despise that type of employer/employee relationships. I can tell you having worked both ways you are respected if you are in a union and seldom respected today if not. Some hate unions for reasons I think they often do not understand themselves or what Unions are and do you certainly don’t.

“Our president has increased the national debt by over $16 trillion in less than four years and has spent more time on the golf course than most pros.”

That falsehood, ~ discredited your whole post.