gfsomsel says — “Ron Paul supporters aren’t known to “play nice””.
Do you have any evidence to back up your conjecture, gfsomsel?

Is the country some kind of kindergarten playground that everyone must play nice? Why are you worried about Ron Paul supporters supposedly not playing nice?
Firstly, define what You mean by playing nice and what the Ron Paul mean by playing nice.
Romney will not change the size of government. All the country is going to get is a new manager who will just rearrange some things and make the people in government have a new upbeat attitude.

I guess we have to take his word on his federal taxes as well.
Why would you take the word of someone who has been on both sides of every issue?
How can you trust someone with no plan – only empty nonsensical rhetoric?
Hey I’ve got this bridge for sale that I think you’d love….

Norm wrote: “I guess we have to take his word on his federal taxes as well.”

I’ll take his word on that. I haven’t heard that the IRS has been knocking on his door.

Normy is a “taxer”, not unlike a “birther”…go figger?

We are in trouble with either Democrat or Republican, socialism or fascism. If We the People do not do something soon, we will not have a republic.

Bill Clinton in new campaign ad for Oblama:

“President Obama has a plan to rebuild America from the ground-up…”

With all the power he has taken through Executive Order and granted through the NDAA and the Patriot Act, he is effectively a dictator-in-waiting.

We must act soon, or we will ALL be screwed!

Rolling Stone magazine is primarily a music magazine but it does carry a well researched political section. During the Iraq invasion it was this magazine that exposed the corruption relating to the billions of Dollars that just went missing and the fraud of companies like Haliburton in bilking the government of funds through dishonestly claiming fees.

I read their article on Romney and even if only part of it is true, it is certainly a damning indictment of the duplicity of the Republican Presidential hopeful. He is certainly not a person I feel is trustworthy, honest and uncorruptible and should and I hope he does not succeed in his quest.

The Republican faithful on here continually berate the others for not even trying to hear or see their arguments, so now the shoe is on the other foot.

Rolling Stone started off as a music magazine that appealed to serious rock and rythum and blues musicians in the 60s. Eventually they had to broaden their base or go out of business. They had some pretty good articles. I don’t know why the person I know subscribied to it eventually let it lapse.

gfsomsel, when you blamed Barney Frank for the housing mess you obviously were not aware that bush was pushing Fannie and freddie for mortage help more than Barney! Faux noise forget to tell you that???

Nice answer you sent back by typing Barney Frankd’s name 30+ times!! OBVIOUS MEANING: gfsomsel does not have an intelligent reply! Happens all the time when the right wingers trap them themselves because the only watch faux noise! A recent poll said faux noise watchers were the least informed people they polled! WHY IS NO ONE SURPRISED!! BYE!!

You obviously weren’t aware that Bush warned Congress of the precarious position of Fannie and Freddie and urged reform. The Dumb-Old-Rat reaction was, as Barney the Frankfurter put it, just fine. Maxine Waters and Barack Hussein Obama also thought the same.

Unfortunately former Senatory Chris Dodd (Barney’s pal) was Chair of the Banking Committee. He was a dim bulb and an example of why Committee chairs should be assigned on the basis of competance, not longevity.

Off topic, Oblamer is slamming Romney for having ideas suitable for the last century. This is coming from someone who has wasted 1/3 of this century with a bad idea and no solutions. What a joke!!

Norm and Karolyn have been ” smallowing the obammy kool
`aid

gfsomsel, you said that I was not aware that bush warned Congress that Fannie and Freddie were up to no good! You are an adult who studied Greek and when you watched the video of “bush praising Fannie and freddie” did you get the impression he was warning Congress or thanking Fannie and Freddie for their help with low income financing??
He had been in office for almost two years at that time and almost 4 years when he signed the DREAM ACT to make the DOWN PAYMENT ON LOW INCOME HOUSING WITH TAXPAYER MONEY.
MAYBE YOU SHOULD JUST STUDY GREEK HISTORY BECAUSE YOU AIN’T WORTH A GRUNT WITH OURS!!

I can understand your confusion when you rely on Alan Combes for your information. You might try reading http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123137220550562585.html. I think you are the one who “is not worth a grunt” with our history.

Why is everybody always picking on me?
It’s all those conspiring bogeymen!

Norm, if you’re feeling “picked on”, I guess we’ll have to start calling you “Charlie Brown.”

Silly, ryan published his own details of his plans for our future so you can get it from the horse’s mouth and you then would find out the media you hate described him accurately

I do not know what the media said, fact check organizations said that of him, I listened to every word when he said them and I can not think of another 30 or so minutes in my life where I heard that many lies, beware this evil man.

No, I would say that you, Obama and the Dems in general are the evil ones.

20 Ah, you who call evil good
and good evil,
who put darkness for light
and light for darkness,
who put bitter for sweet
and sweet for bitter!
21 Ah, you who are wise in your own eyes,
and shrewd in your own sight!
22 Ah, you who are heroes in drinking wine
and valiant at mixing drink,
23 who acquit the guilty for a bribe,
and deprive the innocent of their rights!

The Holy Bible: New Revised Standard Version. 1989 (Is 5:20–23). Nashville: Thomas Nelson Publishers.

Yeah? Well, he’s “been there, done that.” It’s called “experience” which is sadly lacking in the current administration. “Smallow it”? What’s that? It really wouldn’t matter if the current administration had some experience though since I’ve come to the conclusion that the current administration really doesn’t want to fix things. They’re all about their agenda, and to hell with anything that gets in the way (such as the Constitution).

Of course it’s “swallow” it. You couldn’t figure that out? Being a wealth creator does not necessarily translate into being a nation builder.

Of course I understood you, but I couldn’t resist yanking your chain a bit.

gfsomsel

Romney spokesman Eric Fehrnstrom says the 100,000 job creation figure stems from the growth in jobs from three companies that Romney helped to start or grow while at Bain Capital: Staples (a gain of 89,000 jobs), The Sports Authority (15,000 jobs), and Domino’s (7,900 jobs).
This tally obviously does not include job losses from other companies with which Bain Capital was involved — and are based on current employment figures, not the period when Romney worked at Bain.
Bain Capital has been responsible for thousands of layoffs at companies it bankrupted, such as American Pad & Paper, Dade International, and LIVE Entertainment, which Romney’s stat completely leaves out. He’s also taking credit for jobs created long after he left the firm to launch his political career. To sum it up, the stat Romney uses is incredibly dishonest, like much of his jobs rhetoric.
One of Romney’s Bain business partners has said that he “never thought of what I do for a living as job creation.” “The primary goal of private equity is to create wealth for your investors,” he added. And Bain has certainly done that, maximizing earnings “by firing workers, seeking government subsidies, and flipping companies quickly for large profits.” Due to a lucrative retirement deal, Romney is still making millions from Bain, as he goes across the country calling himself “middle class” and joking about being “unemployed

Norm, you neglect to mention that those companies came to Bain because they were already in trouble. You can’t win them all. Bain probably bought them a little time. They might have gone out of business a year or two earlier otherwise. It has been said that all evil needs to succeed is for good men to do nothing. A paraphrase of that might be applicable here—”all failure needs is for good men to fail to try.” You can’t win them all.

Creating jobs is now pandering ????
There are 24 Million people that need jobs and if creating jobs is you brand of pandering pandering then so be it. Given the unemployment rate under BOB is at a fairly constant rate over the last four years ( 8+%)then according to your definition, BOB isn’t “pandering” very well is he?
Lets see “wealth creator” or “nation builder” Do we get a choice?
To use your words. I suspect that a” wealth creator” will allow folks to maintain and further build this nation.

Romney is going to hire twelve million peolple with the jobs he creates.Well the unemployed that want these jobs will need passports in order to go to China, Mexico, Pakistan and India to work those jobs.

Romney’s experience was managing crony capitalism, that’s not he experience we either want or need and will not solve our problems. Managing a business and managing a government take very different skill sets and we saw in Mass how that worked, he mostly gave into the democrats, he borrowed from the Heritage Foundation his health care bill whom is the real author of Obamacare which he used as Governor to compromise and the democrats there gave it to him what we niw all Obamacare. Its terrible this man flip flops more than any I have ever seen and one hundred times faster than Kerry ever did.

A lot of small business owners would love nothing better to hire more workers, but they are being shackled by Obamacare. The sooner we repeal it, the cloud of uncertainty will be lifted. In addition, Romney will start the Keystone pipeline project immediatley. We’ll make sure the oil stays in the US instead of China and thousands of jobs will be created.

Palin16 says:
August 31, 2012 at 2:20 pm

Apparently you have no personal knowledge of the Obamacare law as it will actually make it cheaper for small business and has nothing to do with why they are not hiring, that is simply lack of demand. This is nothing more than far right rhetoric and distortions as is raising tax on those with taxable income is over $250,000.00 hurting small business persons with higher taxes when only 3% of thee business persons have personal income of that amount or larger and all S corps, LLC’s and partnerships pay no taxes, the owners only pay for those dollars that is their personal income taken out of the business for personal use.

Smilee, if you believe that Obamacare will make things cheaper for small business, want to buy a bridge? Many, many small business owners know otherwise. Why do you suppose they aren’t hiring when they have money they’re sitting on? It’s because they know they would be hit by the Obamacare taxes and are hoping for repeal.

gfsomsel says:
August 31, 2012 at 9:33 am

He promised 12 million new jobs in 4 years, Reagan and Clinton hold the record and they took 8 years fot create that many in economies twice as good as the one we have now. Only a fool would believe this idiotic statement, he is pandering and big time.

Smilee, don’t attempt to put words in my mouth. What you quote as being from me is not something I wrote.

gfsomsel says:
August 31, 2012 at 10:34 pm

If you would listen to both sides and read the bill you would then be able to ascertain the truth, what you quote is the far right rhetoric and propaganda and being that is your only source you look at you can only be this badly deceived.

Right on, Kathy ! At least someone “gets it.”

Dubya “GWB” had veto power and if what you say is true he could have stopped it but he didn’t, he signed it giving his approval, that’s how it works. The other thing is your analysis of what happened is skewed.

The House and Senate were Democrat controlled when Franks and Dodo got us into the recession that we haven’t gotten out of yet (in spite of mr hopey changey). Bush’s Veto would have been a waste of time because it would have been overturned by the House and Senate.

OK. I had intended to remain out of the rest of this, but your ignorance demands response. Dubya didn’t have a chance to veto the Community Development act. I think it was signed into law under Clinton, but in any case, it was Janet Reno under Clinton who threatened the lenders that they had better approve those loans to persons who were totally unqualified. Once again, you Dumb-Old-Rats don’t know your posterior from a hole in the ground.

Now, goodbye.

Your simply full of it, its takes a 2/3 vote to override the senate democrats never had 67 votes not even in 2009 and the house did not either so His Veto could have blocked it but he chose to sign it and that bill did not cause the recession, that is pure right wing rhetoric without basis.

Neither the house or senate had enough votes to override so he veto would have held and you are wrong this bill did not cause the recession that is simply far right BS

No, Smilee, it’s not “BS.” It’s the honest-to-God truth. Clinton’s AJ forced lenders through threats to make loans which no lender in his right mind would have otherwise made. Defaults on those loans caused the financial crisis. It didn’t happen immediately since such events take time to develop. Thank you, Democrats, for a recession.

I should have read further down for your reply before making my own. Yours is better and you are absolutely right. Not only were bankers threatened, but sometimes their families. As you wrote, “thank you Democrats for the Recession”.

Even if the idea of getting more of the population into house ownership originated in the government, surely it was the fudiciary responsibility of the BANKS giving out the loans to ensure that the lendee was able to repay the loan. The majority of the blame for the 2008-2009 financial debacle was squarely on the banks, who on many documented occasions, broke the law in giving loans, knowing that they would ultimately be the winners, repayment or not.

The law did not mandate they make loans to someone whom could not pay it back that was the banks idea under the guise they had to do it so as to not discriminate to minority’s to cover their butts from their deceits.

I can’t prove this, but had read that the banks were threatened into making the substandard loans. Threats were financial and in some cases personal body harm type threats.

gfsomsel, get off the Barney Frank thing and do some research on how much george bush and his Republican co-horts were into the “HOMES FOR LOW INCOME BUYERS” even before bush took office and while the Republicans controlled both Houses and the Oval Office after he took office !
Then type in “bush praising Fannie and Freddie” and see that after almost 2 years in office bush was STILL thanking them for THEIR HELP with the low income people obtaining financing! IT’S RIGHT THERE IN FRONT OF YOUR FACE IF YOU GET OFF THE RIGHTWING KOOLAID AND GET TREATMENT FOR THE DENIAL THAT BUSH WAS IN IT UP TO HIS BUTT! SEE HIS DREAM ACT IN 2003 WHERE HE WAS STILL USING TAX Payer MONEY FOR LOW INCOME BUYERS ASSISSTANCE!

Why do Republicans have such a hard time with the truth of their record?

Barney Frank, Barney Frank, Barney Frank, Barney Frank, Barney Frank, Barney Frank,Barney Frank, Barney Frank, Barney Frank, Barney Frank, Barney Frank, Barney Frank,Barney Frank, Barney Frank, Barney Frank, Barney Frank, Barney Frank, Barney Frank, Barney Frank, Barney Frank, Barney Frank, Barney Frank, Barney Frank, Barney Frank,Barney Frank, Barney Frank, Barney Frank, Barney Frank, Barney Frank, Barney Frank, Barney Frank, Barney Frank, Barney Frank, Barney Frank, Barney Frank, Barney Frank

Kathy says:
September 1, 2012 at 6:39 am

Your right you cannot prove it as it is not true or any evidence to suggest it, lots of rhetoric to say to the contrary but all substantiated.

I did not write the comment attributed to me. Below is what I wrote.

Kathy says:
September 1, 2012 at 8:48 am
“Vote for Obama once to prove you are not a racist. Don’t vote for him again to prove you’re not stupid.”

Good try Smilee, but you are way out numbered on this blog.

Your instincts are correct, Kathy.
It began with Federal Reserve money creation which as always resulted in malinvestment (the Boom), but was greatly exacerbated by Government meddling (as usual):
http://www.nypost.com/p/news/opinion/opedcolumnists/item_Qjl08vDbysbe6LWDxcq03J;jsessionid=3ABEB27DA9BBC299FB72D1C9D804E86E

Smilee says (to Kathy) — “Your right you cannot prove it as it is not true or any evidence to suggest it, lots of rhetoric to say to the contrary but all substantiated”.
See my above comment, Smilee.
As usual you are wrong. Seems to me, Smilee, that you fall under the category of — “Better to keep your mouth closed and be thought a fool than to open it and remove all doubt”.

DaveH says:
September 1, 2012 at 11:15 am

Davie,

You accuse me of not being right without telling me what it is I’m not right about, is it because you actually know I am right and just want to throw mud

Unlike you, Sleepee, the other people can read.

And just whom are you calling “Sleepee”? You say this in response to my post which leads me to think you are referencing me (and not for the first time) by this epithet. Yes, I would assume the others here can read though I have some doubt regarding the facility with which some can read.

Relax, George, I am talking to Smilee.

Neoconservatism Taken Down:
http://mises.org/daily/5635/Neoconservatism-Taken-Down

Dave, do attempt to avoid being a total jackass. If you want to support a 3rd party, fine. You should do it, however, at the local level and build your numbers from there since you don’t have a sufficient base nationally to accomplish diddly-squat other than be a nuisance.

This will be my last post on this article since I have more important things to do with my time other than respond to posts by those who don’t have two brain cells to rub together (though others do). I’m off to working on a 5th century Greek commentary (i.e., a commentary in Greek).

gfsomsel, you must be SO important to be working on a “Greek commentary ie a commentary in Greek”! WOW!! We are SO impressed! The fact that you have to PROVE that you have more than two brain cells says that you feel inadequate and must “ring” your own bell! Did you think that because you’re writing SUCH an important peice that we should all automatically agree with you?!? You’re sad and pitiful! Go try to get your attention elsewhere. We’re NOT properly impressed!

Please speak only for yourself. I’m impressed. How much Greek do you know?

How much? I was a Greek major in college and took more in seminary, but when I went to grad school I went into Old Testament studies.

OOOPs!! I thought my response was to Nancy. “How much Greek do you know and speak for yourself” She kept writing “WE”. Personally, I’m impressed that you know Greek and other languages. Explains why you can turn out a very nice sentence etc. Nice to read material that isn’t just txt words or sound bites.

OK. I’ll direct my attention elsewhere. Tomorrow I’ll be working on some Hebrew.

gfsomsel says — “Dave, do attempt to avoid being a total jackass. If you want to support a 3rd party, fine. You should do it, however, at the local level and build your numbers from there since you don’t have a sufficient base nationally to accomplish diddly-squat other than be a nuisance.
This will be my last post on this article since I have more important things to do with my time other than respond to posts by those who don’t have two brain cells to rub together (though others do). I’m off to working on a 5th century Greek commentary (i.e., a commentary in Greek)”.

Wow, gfsomsel’s adolescent name-calling has convinced me. I’m now ready to debate with 6th graders.
Einstein’s definition of insanity — “Doing the same thing over and over again expecting different results”.

Kathy, knowing/speaking Greek would be pretty far down my list of important things to learn! My studies include things that involve what is going on in the world today. I have no plans to visit Greece and no interest in Greek literature. That is NOT a judgement on my intelligence. I’M not impressed when someone drops names or tries to make themselves sound important. The fact that someone chooses to learn Greek or write a Greek commentary, only indicates that they have an interest in it! NOT having an interest in Greek is indicative of NOTHING! A LOT of people speak Greek and it is not indicative of their intelligence or range of knowledge!

You obviously missed last nights telecast. FYI… The house was PACKED.
Further , conservatives seem to lack that “emotional physical drive” that left wingers (i.e. the OWS group) seems to have. When OWS and their cronies gather they leave a very large foot print, but I suspect you haven’t seen that either.

Pathfinder,
No, I didn’t miss last nights telecast. C-Span, Fox & The Blaze did a very good job of showing how “packed” the house was.
Now then, backtrack and re-read my response comments to Karolyn’s statement.
BTW, do you have an answer as to why the COWS massive demonstrations and intended conflict never developed?

You see what they want you to see!
You hear what they want you to hear!
You choose how they want you to choose!

Maybe the OWS is going to show themselves at the DNC. Since as many of you think, they are Oblamers followers. After all he did stab them in the back too!!

We’ll see. Probably more of the same, although not as scary What I’m more interested in is the demonstrations, which I will see a lot of on TV since I live in the Charlotte metro area.

we can reject the RINOs and not be for the dems

if you value the constitution you can’t vote for either

If North Carolina has a hurricane, the Democrats can be chided for celebrating during a crisis. I’m sure when the Republicans scheduled their convention 4 years ago, they also scheduled hurricane Isaac!!

Has anyone noticed that in recent pictures of Oblamer, he always looks very angry? He has also aged quite a bit.

Kathy – If you look at pix of any presidents, you will see a lot of grey hair after 4 years and substantil aging after 8. I’m surprised they don’t end up in a rubber room!

LBJ aged the most. He was older. Oblamer just turned 50 and his aging just seems accelerated. What you see now, is more like you’d expect after 8 years, not 4. Hopefully we won’t need to make the 8 year comparison. He also looks angry and hysterical. The lamestream media must have done PhotoShop on his nose, though. It should be much longer.

I can not wait to hear Debbie Wasserman Schultz, and Maybe Ms Pelosi can give us more on the, “We will sees whats in the bill after we pass it “. I look to Harry Reid to update us on his persimmon trees now that he has had a chance to visit them. Then there are folks like Maxine Waters, the ” Honorable” Barney Frank, Chuck Schumer, B.Boxer, B. Feinstein, Dick “Jack Boot” Durbin, then there is comedian …Joe Bide
and maybe, ie we are lucky, a cameo appearance by Henry Waxman, all this is then topped off by the great deceiver, BOB.
What a line up.,, kinda reads like a bunch of old time political hacks dosen’t it?

“The word is out” (paraphrasing Harry Reid)….the unions are might pissed that the DNC convention will take place in No. Carolina, a right-to-work state, in a stadium built by non-union labor….and in a state which recently voted against homosexual marriage.

Karolyn, too bad, so sad on the gray hair and wrinkles of O. These come with the aging process.
People on this site have pointed out that no man should become president if he is naive about what pitfalls and perks the job entails.

Kathy,
According to “Dreams from my Real Father”, Obama had a rhinoplasty (nose job) prior to the 2008 election. They show before and after photos.

Pathfinder says:
August 31, 2012 at 9:50 am

You should not put quotation marks around anything other that the exact quote and when you do you create spin and distortion of the quote which you did here. The actual qupte was

“But we have to pass the bill so you can find out what is in it, away from the fog of the controversy”

She was saying people will find out what it is when they use it for themselves free of all the false rhetoric that was being said then and still is as the GOP convention made very clear in how the describe it that they do not want you to know the Truth about it even now.

Thanks, Smilee, for the typical Progressive spin.
These are the people, Folks, who want to run your life.

DaveH says:
September 2, 2012 at 11:06 am

Spin davey?????? That is exactly word for word that she said, it really kills you to acknowledge the truth when it is in conflict with biases

Dear JeffH: Will you knock off this phony nonsense that Obama and Rubio aren’t natural born citizens for they are. Please read this to clear up these misconceptions. http://www.swamppolitics.com/news/politics.com/news/politics/blog/2008/06/is_barack_obama_a_us_citizen_y.html. Thanks now. TGIF!!

Tony, I don’t even have to read your article to KNOW that it’s CRAP! To BE a natural born citizen, one’s parents MUST be citizens at the time of birth! obumass’s father was NEVER a citizen and rubio’s parents were NOT citizens at the time of his birth! This was to PROTECT us from people whose loyalties laid elsewhere! This whole argument is just another example of the way that they are trying to dismantle the constitution! We lose it peice by peice!

Tony, why do you call it nonsense when, according to the Constitution and according to the Supreme Court, neither one qualifies as being a “natural born citizen”.

I’m not questioning either ones citizenship, I am correctly pointing out that neither one is a “natural born” citizen as required by the Constitution to hold the office of POTUS, VP and Commander in Chief.

1. Rubio is a 14th Amendement citizen…neither of his parents were US citizens when he was born
2. Obama’s father was a British subject and never was a US citizen. He is a citizen by “statute”, Born to at least 1 US Citizen Parent.

Persons, eligible for the presidency, have no first generation ties to a foreign nation, whereas ineligible persons always do.

ALL statutory citizens are born with a tie to another nation by birthplace and/or blood, but NEVER is that the case with any natural born citizens who are only American.

A statutory citizen (bestowed by man’s pen) can never be a “natural born” citizen (bestowed by God/nature).

I’ll direct you to Minor v. Happersett , 88 U.S. 162 (1875).

In that case, the Chief Justice of the Supreme Court in that year, wrote the majority opinion, in which he stated:

The Constitution does not in words say who shall be natural-born citizens. “Resort must be had elsewhere” to ascertain that. At common law, with the nomenclature of which the framers of the Constitution were familiar, it was never doubted that all children born in a country of “parents”(plural=both parents) who were its citizens became themselves, upon their birth, citizens also. These were “natives or natural-born” citizens, as distinguished from aliens or foreigners. Some authorities go further and include as citizens children born within the jurisdiction without reference to the citizenship of their parents.

The Supreme Court of the United States has never applied the term “natural born citizen” to any other category than “those born in the country of parents who are citizens thereof”.

Hence every U.S. Citizen must accept this definition or categorical designation, and fulfil his constitutional duties accordingly. No member of Congress, no judge of the Federal Judiciary, no elected or appointed official in Federal or State government has the right to use any other definition; and if he does, he is acting unlawfully, because unconstitutionally.

If the Constitution is the “Supreme Law” of the US why then do our courts and legislators not recognize it as such?
http://www.fourwinds10.net/siterun_data/government/us_constitution/news.php?q=1308252582

Tony, you might want to educte yourself a little further with this.
http://theobamafile.com/obamanaturalborn.htm

Don’t misunderstand me, I like Rubio, but I like our Constitution better and refuse to usurp it’s meaning to satify a personal like or dislike.

To JeffH,Nancy in the Corh Husker state, and the rest of you kiddies:
It’s time for you to read a homework assignment so you don’t keep believing along saying the same foolish slogans over and over again. Alright behold-fredthompsonamerica.com/2012/07/31/is-rubio-eligible/. Now please read, reading is fundamental you’ll know. Thank you and TGIF!!

Dear Tony,

You write: “Alright behold-fredthompsonamerica.com/2012/07/31/is-rubio-eligible/.” It’s merely one man’s (incorrect) opinion. Here’s a response posted on his blog by another attorney: http://www.wasobamaborninkenya.com/InspectorSmith/showthread.php/2014-Atty-Apuzzo-Responds-To-Fred-Thompson-s-Article-Defending-Marco-Rubio-s-Eligibility “Now please read, reading is fundamental you’ll know.”

Best wishes,
Bob

Tony(no baloney?), try as you may, you just can’t accept facts. Thompson merely stated his opinion and obviously didn’t research the issue beyond what satisfied him, as you have. Your personal arguement has been refuted by actual “Supreme Court” settled cases. No lower court ruling is above that of the Supreme Court.

Thomson incorrectly made reference to English “Common Law”. The British doctrine allowed for double allegiances, something the founders considered improper and dangerous. The American naturalization process required all males to twice renounce all allegiances with other governments and pledge their allegiance to this one before finally becoming a citizen.

In regards to questions about the citizenship of the mother: Mothers citizenship rarely ever influenced the citizenship of their children except in certain situations such as the father dying before the child was born or when the identity of the father was unknown.

I refer you back to the link supplied by Mr. Livingston and the link supplied by me. The facts are the facts…whether you choose to keep your head buried in the sand and ignore theem is your choice…”Ignorance is bliss” I guess.
http://www.federalistblog.us/2008/11/natural-born_citizen_defined/

JeffH says:
August 31, 2012 at 12:09 pm

In the context the opinion uses and is used in many legal terms parents in this usage means either parent not necessarily both as you want us to believe. Legal terms sometimes mean different than normal usage. It has to say” both” parents if it means to include both, parents in this case means either, only one has to be a citizen.

Smilee, would you please learn to write a coherent sentence. Much of what you write is grammatical nonsense. Perhaps proofreading what you write before posting will help.

gfsomsel says:
September 1, 2012 at 10:38 am

What did you not understand dummy!!

Smilee, not even close. Legal schmeegal! If that were the case, as you would attempt to make believe, then why wasn’t “parent”, mother or father used. I’m quite sure they were a lot sharper than you and based on the historical documentation and the Supreme Court definitions the term “parents” means mother & father.
Biological parents consist of the male who sired the child and the female who gave birth to the child. In all human societies, the biological mother and father are both responsible for raising their young.

Rather than relying on your simplistic thinking ask an attorney and you will find out I am right!!!

Smilee, rather than be ignorant, why don’t you read the the “settled” Supreme Court cases that have defined “natural born” and made reference to the Framers reasons for inserting “natural born” in Article II.
Who gives a damm what you or any attorney believes “persons”(plural)means anyway.

JeffH says:
September 1, 2012 at 4:42 pm

Silly you we were discussing the settled opinion that you presented here the problem is you are not capable of understand its meaning and thus changed its meaning. Check with an attorney rather than applying your simplistic mindset to it.

Game over ya moron!

Romney care is socialism, dummy

The national unemployment rate is the average of the 50 states, you forgot to mention the states whom have higher rates and that distorts reality.

Unemployment by State:
http://www.bls.gov/lau/

I think a more revealing “rate” would be the Employment Rate, but all I could find is the number of employed in the various states:
http://www.bls.gov/sae/eetables/tabled1.pdf

So, you’d have to divide the tabled figures by the State populations to get the rates.

For the most part S.C. your quote “You only see and hear what you want,” applies to any of us.

Ah Karolyn! If only that were true! I’m seeing and hearing a LOT that I don’t WANT to see and hear! Sometimes I wish I could curl up in a ball and go back to sleep! Cognitive dissonance provided sweet dreams!

Could you be specific, Smilee? Which lies?

Take your pick it was all lies

What else can we expect from you, Smilee?

It was all totally true to but to trying to convince one such as your self is a waste of time

Still no specifics.
Do you really think you have any credibility here, Smilee?

Great link.

I read the artical seems I don’t feel so alone anymore. Trying to get Osama (Obama sorry) voted out of oriface. I got my DemoCRIPS friends to look at Dr. Paul and they would have voted for him had he been elected, but you know those peskey ReBLOODlicans never listen to the peoples will. Shutting out the grassroots like they (the ReBLOODlicans) did only pushed me to the Libertarian Party. I personally can’t vote for a man who signed a bill that banned semi-auto firearms or gave a state Romneycare/Osamacare; (sorry the keyboard refuses to put the “b” in Osama in exchange for a “s” as both are a son of Islam) instead of adhearing to his oath of office and following the Constitution.

A good book you might want to read by Jesse Ventura “DemoCRIPS and ReBLOODlicans” might explain part of what is going on in politricks today.

J.W.Howard

Seal team 6 I found another Osama been Biden at 1600 Pennsylvania Ave.

Ron Paul has some very good ideas. He won very few primaries, so he has very few delegates. He’s not exactly a mandate. I wanted Newt Gingrich, flaws and all and also liked Herman Cain. I’ll vote for Romney. A no vote or a vote for a 3rd party is a vote for Obama. We don’t want another Ross Perot situation. He just had to put his oar in the water and caused Bush senior to lose. So we got Clinton and Gore (ugh).

Dear Kathy

I did vote for Ross Perot and was betraied there too. This is the first time I didn’t vote for a ReBLOODlican. I couldn’t vote the second time for Bush 1 for his politricking view on guns (1989 gun ban also his following Rex 84 and his verbage of “New World Order” speech). Yes we got 8 years of bubba. I go by a simple principle now never vote for the lessor of two evils, because all you get is Evil.

Yes Osama is Evil but so is Romney.

J.W.Howard

Seal team 6 I found another Osama been Biden at 1600 Pennsylvania Ave.

Kathy says — “Ron Paul has some very good ideas. He won very few primaries, so he has very few delegates. He’s not exactly a mandate”.
Those people, who actually listened to the various candidates speak, thought so:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_polls_for_the_Republican_Party_presidential_primaries,_2012#Candidate_Totals

Gary Johnson will protect Internet Freedom:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mnz47nXuU4M

Gary Johnson, Ron Paul revolutionary:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ELgZfQn6B_4

Gary Johnson job boom:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VmZ1JilA0qg

Gary Johnson we the people are Libertarian:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BvRfGrexFfA

Gary Johnson you are Libertarian:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4x9bkXVccAs

Gary Johnson won’t do jack since he’ll never get elected. Put away the dope pipe and look at reality.

Gary Johnson live free:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v_OVBmVDe84

Gary Johnson elect one of our own. One Time:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C-PeKNXe3ts

Gary Johnson will end the IRS:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vpdTBt73st4

Gary Johnson Be Libertarian with me:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2X3QRSIXgns

Gary Johnson Peace is cheaper:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zh4dU9QNPU8

gfsomsel says — “Gary Johnson won’t do jack since he’ll never get elected. Put away the dope pipe and look at reality”.
I’m not the one, gfsomsel, who keeps doing the same thing, over and over again, expecting different results.

If you think it is OK to call healthcare reform a”right”,and then tax people for their”rights”
vote for Obama….but then clearly we will know where your head is.
-CC.

Thank You, Barak! I’m sure that our faux conservatives will take your assinine drivel to heart!!!!!!!!

What is the matter with you idiots, you have two choices, the end of our great America or a chance to see if we can get back some relity for our children and grandchildren. Personally, I would rather take the chance than another four years that will lead us to outright socialism. One thing for sure we will not have an “empty chair” ! You haven’t lived under socialism, I have and you dont want it. Did you see the stat this morning/ the colloective unemplyment in Europe is 13.3%, is that what you want. for God’s sake quit moaning and et behind Romney and Ryan,

There goes DavidL again, repeating his same old nonsense which I already addressed here (scroll down to my comments to DavidL):
http://personalliberty.com/2012/08/29/faking-the-news/#comment-689806

The voter ID thing is lame. The Dems are only against it because they want to use fraud to win the election. You have to have ID to do everything else. These “poor” you talk about have to show ID to get their welfare checks and food stamps. Give us a break and quit repeating the same tired old rhetoric. And as for women being paid the same as men, I hear your guy Obama is guilty of doing that himself.

speeches afterall don’t mean a thing….Dubya ran on no nation building and small govt.

I’m voting my CONSCIENCE…and that’s NOT Romney or Obama

YOU CAN’T GO WRONG BY VOTING YOUR CONSCIENCE….VOTING AGAINST SOMEONE IS FUTILE IF YOU DON’T REPLACE THEM WITH SOMETHING GOOD AND TRUE

John Quincy Adams, Conscience quotes:
Always vote for principle, though you may vote alone, and you may cherish the sweetest reflection that your vote is never lost.
more John Quincy Adams quotes

Bruce Ackerman, Conscience quotes:
There is simply no escaping the fact that the fate of the Constitution is in our hands — as voters, representatives, justices. If we allow ourselves to abuse the tradition of higher lawmaking, the very idea that the Constitution can be viewed as the culminating expression of a mobilized citizenry will disintegrate. After all, the American Republic is no more eternal than the Roman — and it will come to an end when American citizens betray their Constitution’s fundamental ideals and aspirations so thoroughly that existing institutions merely parody the public meanings they formerly conveyed

This is misdirecte to “Vigilant” when it should be to Rachel Riehel who said “speeches afterall don’t mean a thing.”

Ain’t it the truth? We’ve had many speeches the last four years as stated in “Macbeth” (about life rather than speeches) “signifying nothing.”

MANY MORE EXAMPLES OF COMPANIES RUINED BY BAIN
Read more: http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/greed-and-debt-the-true-story-of-mitt-romney-and-bain-capital-20120829#ixzz2551vxqmG
We do have other choices….2 good ones that I can think of are Gary Johnson and the Constitution party. Why are people so beat down to think we HAVE to vote for either republicans or democrats…nobody is holding a gun on us making us chose one or the other. It is exactly that kind of mindset that gives them power to do the bad things they have been doing.

Most of us who are not wall street insiders don’t really understand what kind of evil Romney was up to but I’ve been reading to try to understand just exactly what vulture capitalism is. This one spells it out pretty well and this is exactly why Romney wants the presidency….what he did to these companies he can now do to the whole country—
so I’m not seeing the lesser of 2 evils – even a greater evil because he has no qualms about sucking it dry.

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/greed-and-debt-the-true-story-of-mitt-romney-and-bain-capital-20120829?page=3

Since I am in the printing business I remember American Pad and Paper going under….I just had no idea Romney was the cause. That article shows many examples of how they bankrupted these companies and got rich doing it. Here is what Bain does:

Take a typical Bain transaction involving an Indiana-based company called American Pad and Paper. Bain bought Ampad in 1992 for just $5 million, financing the rest of the deal with borrowed cash. Within three years, Ampad was paying $60 million in annual debt payments, plus an additional $7 million in management fees. A year later, Bain led Ampad to go public, cashed out about $50 million in stock for itself and its investors, charged the firm $2 million for arranging the IPO and pocketed another $5 million in “management” fees. Ampad wound up going bankrupt, and hundreds of workers lost their jobs, but Bain and Romney weren’t crying: They’d made more than $100 million on a $5 million investment.

Hey, dingbat, Bain didn’t ruin any company. They attempted to save them. You apparently demand 100% success. Only idiots do that.

When you hear people at this level……..upper corporate……..citing success, and the less than intelligent citizenry falling for it………and defending it……..the TRUTH is……what has taken place is fraud, manipulation, corruption and theft……..hell, just the term “consultant”
says WARNING……..somehow I can’t see this actually producing any results in D.C……..

Thanks for posting that link, Rhonda. Interesting article!

Rhonda you haven’t a clue how the business world works..it is not to provide social welfare.

Your kind of people are the same ones that think healthcare givers have no business making a profit! Right!! Everyone should go through years of school, incur hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt, then go into a career where they are considered “bad people” if they expect a paycheck! There is NO such utopia! Like all libs,they think everyone else should work and risk their money without any expectation of financial reward…Libs don’t live in reality…

If Rollingstone is your best source, Rhonda, consider the source. It is a rabid socialist, communist outlet. Disgusting in the extreme and just as crooked.

The “propaganda spewing liberal media” is but a faint shadow of the propaganda directed and funded by the Koch brothers and associated hard-right oligarchs. A collection of oligarchs who regard George Soros on the other side with fear, even though they greatly out number and out spend him.

You’re STILL being “lulled to sleep”! You haven’t woken up yet! If you STILL don’t recognize that the candidates from BOTH parties are the SAME THING!!! As we’ve been sleeping, THEY’VE infiltrated BOTH parties! We vote for one party or the other, but it makes NO difference, everything continues JUST as they want it to! All this talk of “waking up” means NOTHING if you’re not willing to SEE that which is right before you!!! The entire political system has become a show to make you THINK you have a choice!!! Just look at the FACTS! Look at what BOTH parties have DONE! NOT what what they SAY, but what they have DONE!!! BOTH parties have driven us into debt we can NEVER pay off. They take turns taking and assigning blame but BOTH parties are responsible!!! BOTH parties passed the patriot act and the ndaa! BOTH parties are doing the SAME THING, but you’re being distracted by what they SAY!!! Very few people have actually woken up! The people running this country aren’t stupid! They didn’t get here by accident! It was by design! If the truth is just too hard for you to face, we have lost! If we’re unwilling to take back our country, we have lost! Right from day 1, NOBODY wanted romney but THAT’S the candidate they gave us! The party decided on romney before the race even began and they’ve pulled all kinds of tricks to MAKE you accept him! If you don’t WAKE UP, there will be NOTHING left of this great nation! Voting for romney will be doing the VERY SAME thing we’ve been doing for years and it will only get us MORE OF THE SAME!!! As disturbing as it is to face the truth, we MUST!!! We MUST CHANGE what we are doing if we expect things to change! obumass is a figurehead! Trading him for another won’t help us! people were waking up to bush and and the outrageous things he was doing, so they gave us obumass to say see, bush wasn’t that outrageous. Now wouldn’t you love to have the republicans back? They’re ALL figureheads for those who make the agenda! They’re manipulating our minds! They have NO intention of saving us! Nothing changes, it all goes forward! We need to recognize the truth and GET THESE PEOPLE OUT OF OUR GOVERNMENT!!! The enemy is defeating us from within!!!

Ron Paul didn’t get enough delegates because the globalist controlled media wouldn’t speak his name and the corrupt, GOP worked feverishly to taint the caucus process. I was at the Jefferson County, Missouri caucus and it was a total sham corrupted by the rude and obnoxious Republican Central Committee who had obvious disdain for Ron Paul supporters. The role was actually stolen by committee members and removed from the building. I was in a state of disbelief that these people could operate in such a blatant, corrupt manner.
I have always voted Republican in past years and am ashamed to say I held my nose and voted for McCain in ’08. Never again. Romney and Obama, Republican or Democrat all the same corrupt, self serving pieces of #*!* owned and operated by the global elite. I am sick and tired of people not looking at the voting records of the politicians that they vote for and then trying to tell me that if I don’t vote one way that I am throwing my vote away.
Hey Republicans, you screwed your own party over by refusing to recognize the one person who was ethical and moral, with the brain and heart for doing the right thing. You can’t BUY Ron Paul. The status quo Republicans are afraid of Ron Paul because he is steadfast in his ethics and he would have gone full steam ahead to begin cleaning out the mess in Washington DC.
Obama will win. Not because you or I want him to win, but because Romney is not the counter to Obama. Romney IS Obama, but too many of you are too foolish to see it. His voting record is out there folks. Take some time away from your FOX so-called news and your American Idol and research the facts. We are in a sorry mess and voting for Romney is not going to get us out of it. So whether you like it or not doesn’t matter one iota to me. I am writing Ron Paul in on my ballot. For me there is NO other choice and hey, it’s still MY choice. Four more years of Rombama and we may not even have that choice any more. But wait a minute, I guess it already isn’t my choice. Now that I think about it the Republicans rigged the delegate process so that they can always just pick for us who they want to print on the ballot. Hence, I will just write my guy in. RON PAUL!!!

Folks, you will grow old (as I have) hearing the same old nonsense that you must cast aside Principles to stop the “other guy”, unless you learn to recognize what it is — Propaganda intended to insure that you keep wasting your votes, year after year, on the Establishment-selected candidates.
Break the mold. Support a Party that truly understands the concepts of Freedom and the Prosperity and Peace that comes with that Freedom:
http://www.lp.org/platform

For Individual Liberty, Personal Responsibility, Free Markets, Limited Government, and the PEACE that those bring — Vote Libertarian.

Why I am leaving the GOP and voting Libertaian/ Independent from this point on:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pKaXqoC4DjE&feature=em-uploademail

The GOP has scripted thier own demise.

The GOP can color me…. Gone!

Best Wishes,
AJ

You’ve confused Progressives with laissez faire capitalists. Progressives want to make things better for people. Laissez faire capitalists want to be able to make money with no restrictions or interferrence by government. Crony capitalists are far more in tune with laissez faire capitalism than with Progressivitism.

Thanks Average Joe, for posting that link. It was very enlightening! I highly recommend that everyone watch this video! The people at the helm of the republican party have shown absolute disregard for its voters! I too, am DONE with the republican party! I’m changing to independent status! We need to send them a message that if they think they can FORCE us to do their will, THEY ARE WRONG!!! This is outright cheating and I will NOT stand by and support them!!!

SJJolly says — “You’ve confused Progressives with laissez faire capitalists. Progressives want to make things better for people. Laissez faire capitalists want to be able to make money with no restrictions or interferrence by government. Crony capitalists are far more in tune with laissez faire capitalism than with Progressivitism”.

It is you, Jolly, who is confused. Government supports its Crony Capitalists at the expense of everybody else. Those “restrictions” are simply hurdles put up to hobble the Market Capitalists so the Crony Capitalists can survive without pleasing the consumers and at the expense of both the taxpayers and the consumers.
No company in a Free Market could make a consumer buy anything they did not want to buy. Big Government thwarts consumers choices by reducing the competition with burdensome regulations and other devices meant to protect their Crony Capitalists. The less competition there is, the fewer products that consumers have to choose from, thus the higher their prices will be. And then, add on top of that the bureaucrats’ salaries that the rest of us must pay. So they Force us to pay for people who limit our choices, and you think that’s a good thing, Jolly? Pardon me while I laugh uncontrollably.

Melodrama you say? Just vote for Obama, you’ll get all the melodrama you can take. Are you better off 4 years later? If you are, which I seriously doubt, then you must be working for the government. No one could be worse than Obama, no one.

Mimi says — “then you must be working for the government”.
To the contrary, Mimi, it is you who must be working for the Government, because it is you who advocates electing the same Establishment Republicans who have been taking our country down the road of Mercantilism and Progressivism since the late 19th century.
There will always be a “lesser of two evils” served to you by the Cronies. The real test of mettle will be when you quit falling for their scam.

“None are more hopelessly enslaved, as those who falsely believe they are free”

The Progressives “took over” in the early 1900s. They became entrenched in the late 1800s:
http://mises.org/daily/1259

Now is never the right time for change. No matter how bad things are, someone is going to be sure change will make things worse.

I am feeling the change already; in my pocket. Unfortunately, it used to be dollars of larger denomination !

to Karolyn;;;;;;;somehow I think Clint will not need your pity and condescending empathy; what have you done in your life????????

DITTO

Nally, I would like to see the Libertarians running under their own party instead of hiding behind the Republican name. It is high time that ended.

JeffH says:
August 31, 2012 at 11:13 pm

Karolyn, conservatives deservedly talk bad about our government, not bad about America

Jeff, WE THE PEOPLE are our government and America it is all one and the same a fact conservatives fail to comprehend .. When Reagan said Government is the problem he was really saying we the people were the problem and he planted the seed of hate of government which caught root and grew up to be a destructive weed in our society today , it has become the food that Conservative now exist on, Government is the authority in our lives and rebellion against authority results in breakdown in society. Government has to be managed wisely by we the people not trying to make everyone believe it is your enemy. This is self destructive behavior that conservatives are so deeply guilty of today. Conservatives used to mean well managed and efficient government not bad government that they are working so hard to attain today. I left the conservative movement recently and I had been very active with it and the reason I left was because of the hatred they now towards government and many of their fellow men which they are now espousing. It is bad and Obama acknowledges that, conservatives pat themselves on the back and pretend it is not true yet almost all at the GOP convention were ranting and raving how bad things were and wanting us to believe it only got that way in the last three and a half years when we have been headed in this direction for thirty years and their solution going back to doing the same things we have been doing the last 30 years and expect things to get better. Romney promised 12 million new jobs in the next four years when the record for job creation amounts happened under both Reagan and Clinton but it took them all 8 years to get to 12 million and Romney is asking us to believe he can do it in half the time with an economy twice as bad. Only a fool would believe that. That is but only one false claim of many at the convention the other big one was Ryan blaming Obama for the closing the Janesville GM plant when it had been closed for a month before Obama took office. One must wonder if you have to fabricate these these things is it because you have no real solutions.Just blame it on something else and offer solutions that no one to date is able to comprehend without more detail except the Ryan Budget Plan that is in writing and fully endorsed by Romney which almost all Professional Responsible and credible persons whom have studied it say it would be a disaster if implemented. Beware these two phonies bearing fools gold solutions. If your an alcoholic the first step to recovery is acknowledging you have a drinking problem and the same is true with government and that is recognizing we are in reality as superior a people as the conservatives try to say we are. Never the less we are a good people just that we are letting ourselves be misled, I also believe the Germans were and are good people but look were they let Hitler lead them, it started with false promises and ended in disaster, Please do not think that I think the Romney/Ryan ticket is planning anything close to that but if they destroy the economy by going back to doing the same thing as we have been doing the last thirty years we will destroy it and Obama’s direction which is a new direction and in its infancy and needs time to grow or it to will die, It took 30 years to get were we are at today and what Obama has done will not mature until sometime after he leaves office in 2017 but it will get us where we need to go if we do not derail it. I am old enough to remember the economic good times we had in the fifties, sixties and most of the seventies and have watched this planned destruction that the conservative movement has swung to in the last thirty years and it has not been good for annyone.

Smilee, there is nothing new about Bam Bam’s vision for America. It is the same old, tired socialism which has been tried numerous times and in numerous places. It is the same old tired socialism which has failed and brought misery upon those on whom it has been imposed. Are we to suppose that the failures are simply due to those who practiced it but that we can expect better results because THE ONE who has promised to stop the rise of the seas and heal the globe is administering it? It is not the old policies which failed (capitalism) it is rather that a foreign system (socialism) has been imposed upon it.

Smilee says — “Government is the authority in our lives and rebellion against authority results in breakdown in society”.
So now Smilee reveals that he is for “authority”. Thanks for that revelation, Smilee.
“rebellion against authority results in breakdown”? So Smilee, you are saying that your kind would forgo morality and start trespassing on their neighbors’ bodies and properties were it not for Big Government? Yet you want us to believe that if we give you Power, you are going to use it benevolently and wisely and not abuse it? That’s a pretty big stretch, Smilee:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wKyXA_nMVQ

gfsomsel says:
September 1, 2012 at 10:32 am

Well, you have the far right misleading rhetoric down pat but no facts, I just spent a month in Norway whom has all the things you call socialism, Unemployment is 3 % the economy is booming and their building all over the country both infrastructure and homes and second homes which 1/4 of them now own. Their wages are four times our median wages and their taxes and living expenses twice what ours is but with four times the income that is a bargain, they have almost no poverty, very low crime. The government furnishes all their health care needs, a large share of their education costs, day care services, unemployment for whatever reason you are not working and as long as you are off work, A stipend of over $5000 in dollars to each family when they have a new baby to get them off to a good start, mothers get 11 months full paid wages and leave after giving birth and dad get one month wages and leave and a good defined benefit pension after age 67 for life and their pension trust fund is the largest in the world per capita bar none. They do not see this as socialism but by doing these things ecollectively they can do it cheaper and better and do. Other than these added tax requirements they are as free as we and no high medical premiums, almost no poverty or crime. I found almost all their like their system. They live in much more harmony and like and respect their government. Having said all this does not mean it is heaven on earth over there, just a lot less stressful and prosperous people. Europe’s current financial problems did not result from what you call socialism but from the american banks toxic banking instruments which they bought into big time and it was catastrophic in Greece, Italy and Spain and through the bank of England, Iceland and Ireland but conservatives in this country do not want you do know these truths. Frontline had a four hour documentary that described the economic meltdown and fully documented Europe’s financial woes. Norway and a few other countries did not get into these and their socialism as you call it proves it can work despite what you want us to believe to the contrary. Look at the whole world picture and you will see it works in the places it is done the right way. Only a few countries do not do their health care this way and they do it at about one half the cost we do. Tracked outcomes also show that about 35 countries have better outcomes than we do and at half the cost. Rationing that conservatives claim will result is a red herring to, those that cannot get insurance are rationed here today, those with preexisting conditions are rationed many HMO’s require you use their doctors and make you wait, a friend of mine had to wait almost five months for surgery because they would not let him go outside the HMO, he ended up being on crutches for this time and on pain pills because of it and know of many other instances so rationing is alive and well in the US but no worse that the other countries. I have been on medicare since 2006 and not worry about rationing and with a supplement ins plan no deductibles, copays, no turn downs for prexisting conditions and they say that it does not work. if Conservatives would cooperate and find an adequate funding source it would work well. employers are now often paying the medicare costs for employees over 65 and dropping their group plan on them, the employer saves a lot and the employee get far better coverage. Your BS is just that

Smilee, I’ve never been to Norway so there is no way that I would have written that. Troll.

What are you talking about, Written what??????

Not saying that a all davie you sure can twist and turn things that I say, listen better and his might improve that if you can look at it with an open mind, Your an expert at distortion

What part did I twist, Smilee? Be specific.

If people were angels, there would be no need for Government. Since people aren’t angels, and Government is people, we need to constrain Government to a few necessary tasks such as adjudicating against Force and Fraud, and defense against outside attackers. To accomplish that we need only a very small Government — Probably much less than 1/3 the size that it currently is.

DaveH says:
September 1, 2012 at 2:44 pm

The last three sentences in your post where your words not mine.

I know you are for a real small government but that is just your opinion. The Constitution does not define the size of government it leave that up to Congress with in the boundaries set by it and that does not limit the size of government. Article 1, section 8 includes “The Congress shall have the Power To lay and collect taxes……to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defense and general welfare of the United States” I do not think anyone would argue that Congress does not have the power to determine the size of defense. The Constitution does not make a distinction between defense and the general welfare and leaves the size to the will of Congress. In his Majority Opinion on Obamacare John Roberts make it very clear that Congress can enact this law and lay the and collect taxes to fund it and says that it is constitutional or permitted under the Constitution. He specifically said this article and section is the authority under which congress has that power and it is no different with medicaid, medicare and SS and other welfare. These are big programs but Constitutional. I know you do not like this part of the Constitution but it is what it is. The Constitution does little to limit the size of government but it does define what Congress can do and not do and if the power is not given to the congress then that power rests with the state or the people. many conservatives define it different but the only definition that counts is the SC definition.

The Constitution does set indirect limits on the size of governent by setting limits upon the areas which are permitted to the government. The “general welfare” clause has been much abused since it does not come under the rubric of the enumerated powers of this government. The Federal Government should be limited to those enumerated powers.

I didn’t say they were your words, Smilee. Thus the question marks. As usual, you are taking things out of context to make an invalid point.

Smilee says — “I do not think anyone would argue that Congress does not have the power to determine the size of defense”.
Sure they would if they read the Constitution, Smilee, so here it is:
https://www.cato.org/constitution/constitution_en.html
From Article I, Section 8:
“The Congress shall have Power … To raise and support Armies, but no Appropriation of Money to that Use shall be for a longer Term than two Years”.

Smilee says — “The Constitution does not make a distinction between defense and the general welfare and leaves the size to the will of Congress”.
The so-called General Welfare clause was never meant to give Congress blanket power over all aspects of our lives. It was merely a qualifier added to mean that Congress could not make laws favoring some states over the others (thus “General” welfare). Otherwise, why would the Founders bother to enumerate a list of Powers, since Congress can always construe their actions to be for the General Welfare as Progressives interpret it, thus the list would be a waste of time?

Smilee says — “In his Majority Opinion on Obamacare John Roberts make it very clear that Congress can enact this law and lay the and collect taxes to fund it and says that it is constitutional or permitted under the Constitution”.
The Supreme Court, a branch of the Federal Government, can be expected to rule in favor of their Gang. Why not? They have life-time appointments, so have nothing to lose by favoring their Federal Government cohorts. The Supreme Court was never given the right to be the final arbiters of the Constitution. They just took that right in the mid 1800s.
Anybody, who takes the time to read the Federalist Papers (meant to persuade New Yorkers to adopt the Constitution) and the actual Constitution, can see that.

Smilee says — “These are big programs but Constitutional”.
No, Smilee, they aren’t. Those who put in a little bit of study will see that. I will post a link to the Federalist Papers, and to Madison’s notes of the Constitutional Convention in following comments for those who are interested.

The Federalist Papers:
http://www.foundingfathers.info/federalistpapers/

James Madison’s notes from the Constitutional Convention:
http://avalon.law.yale.edu/subject_menus/debcont.asp

I think you are attempting to apply the standards of the Constitution which govern the Federal Government to the Republican Party which is NOT a government entity. This is illegitimate.

I read until I encountered the term “neocons.” I think that is a very stupid term to use and is generally applied to anyone who is conservative but with whom the speaker/writer disagrees. To the best of my knowledge there is no generally accepted definition of “neocons.”

For those who are interested in knowing more than Smilee and his Progressive cohorts want you to know:
http://www.lewrockwell.com/dilorenzo/dilorenzo105.html

Also note that the Confederacy, which used the original Constitution as boilerplate for their new Constitution, purposely took out the “General Welfare” qualifier, because it had already been misconstrued and misused by those seeking great Power in the Central Government as far back in our history as 1860. See Article I, Section 8, and compare it to same in the original Constitution:
http://avalon.law.yale.edu/19th_century/csa_csa.asp

More on the “General Welfare Clause”:
http://archive.mises.org/20302/constitutional-law-is-supposed-to-be-different/

“As James Madison, “the father of the Constitution” put it, “If Congress can do whatever in their discretion can be done by money, and will promote the general welfare, the Government is no longer a limited one possessing enumerated powers, but an indefinite one subject to particular exceptions…the phrase…was always understood as nothing more than a general caption to the specified powers…” Further, “If Congress…are the sole and supreme judges of the general welfare…everything… would be thrown under the power of Congress … “”

Actually, “promote the general welfare” expresses the purpose of the enumerated powers and is not a power in itself. It is too general to be a power delegated to the government since it is dependent upon one’s personal opinion of what promotes the general welfare and might (probably will) differ from that of others. It reminds me of Bam Bam’s repeated appeal to fairness (“the rich need to pay their fair share”). Who made him the arbiter of what is fair? Is it fair that 10% of the population pay the largest portion of taxes (and the top 25% pay 90% of taxes) while 50% of the population pays nothing with some even receiving money as “earned income credit.” That doesn’t sound particularly fair to me (and I don’t come anywhere near being rich so I don’t have a dog in this fight).

Smilee says
September 1, 2012 at 1:12 pm

What are you talking about, Written what??????

Davie this was in response to and directed at gfsomsel

gfsomsel says:
September 1, 2012 at 10:49 pm

The Constitution does set indirect limits on the size of governent by setting limits upon the areas which are permitted to the government. LIMITS YES, BUT THAT DOES NOT INCLUDE THE SIZE OF GOVERNMENT, DIRECTLY OR INDIRECTLY.

The “general welfare” clause has been much abused since it does not come under the rubric of the enumerated powers of this government. THAT IS JUST SIMPLY YOUR OPINION AND IT IS TOTALLY INCORRECT AS JOHN ROBERTS WROTE IN HIS MAJORITY OPINION ON OBAMACARE FULLY CONTRADICT YOU.

the Federal Government should be limited to those enumerated powers. THEY ARE!! AS JOHN ROBERTS WROTE IN HIS MAJORITY OPINION ON OBAMACARE FULLY CONTRADICT YOU.

My field of study is in reading and analyzing documents. In doing so it is necessary to determine how all of the clauses fit together and the purpose (intention) of the writing. Don’t question me on that because you’re out of your league.

George some time away from this blog I’d love to discuss Etymology with you as it’s a hobby of mine. Yes I know my spelling is teribble. Thank God for spell check.

I don’t pay much attention to etymology since it is not a good guide to what a word might mean in any particular context. As Humpty-Dumpty said to Alice “When I use a word it means just what I choose it to mean.” That is true of most writers. Words change over time—we wouldn’t use the term “lady” to describe a female if it had its original meaning of “keeper of the bread.”

DaveH says:
September 2, 2012 at 10:01 am

Smilee says — “I do not think anyone would argue that Congress does not have the power to determine the size of defense”.\

Sure they would if they read the Constitution, Smilee, so here it is:
https://www.cato.org/constitution/constitution_en.html I HAVE READ IT MANY TIME, THANKS ANYHOW

From Article I, Section 8:

“The Congress shall have Power … To raise and support Armies, but no Appropriation of Money to that Use shall be for a longer Term than two Years”. THAT IS A LIMIT ON HOW IN SHOULD DONE AND DOES NOT IN ANY WAY INFRINGE ON THE SIZE OF DEFENSE

Smilee says — “The Constitution does not make a distinction between defense and the general welfare and leaves the size to the will of Congress”.

The so-called General Welfare clause was never meant to give Congress blanket power over all aspects of our lives. It was merely a qualifier added to mean that Congress could not make laws favoring some states over the others (thus “General” welfare). Otherwise, why would the Founders bother to enumerate a list of Powers, since Congress can always construe their actions to be for the General Welfare as Progressives interpret it, thus the list would be a waste of time? WHY INDEED, SE DO KNOW, YOU IGNORE THAT JOHN ROBERTS IN HIS MAJORITY OPINION ON OBAMACARE FOUND THE OPPOSITE OF YOU SPIN ON THIS, OBAMACARE IS GENERAL WELFARE AND THAT CONGRESS CAN LAY AND COLLECT TAXES TO PAY FOR IT AND THAT ANY MONEY THEY TAKE FROM TAXPAYERS UNDER ANY NAME IS TAXING, YOUR OPINION DOES NOT MATTER, HIS DOES IT HAS POWER YOURS DOES NOT!!

Smilee says — “In his Majority Opinion on Obamacare John Roberts make it very clear that Congress can enact this law and lay the and collect taxes to fund it and says that it is constitutional or permitted under the Constitution”.

The Supreme Court, a branch of the Federal Government, can be expected to rule in favor of their Gang. Why not? They have life-time appointments, so have nothing to lose by favoring their Federal Government cohorts. The Supreme Court was never given the right to be the final arbiters of the Constitution. They just took that right in the mid 1800s. Anybody, who takes the time to read the Federalist Papers (meant to persuade New Yorkers to adopt the Constitution) and the actual Constitution, can see that. YOUR OPINION DOES NOT MATTER, THE SUPREME COURTS DOES IT HAS POWER YOURS DOES NOT!!

Smilee says — “These are big programs but Constitutional”.

No, Smilee, they aren’t. Those who put in a little bit of study will see that. I will post a link to the Federalist Papers, and to Madison’s notes of the Constitutional Convention in following comments for those who are interested. NOTE DAVIE IS SAYING OBAMACARE IS NOT A BIG PROGRAM, THE FEDERALIST PAPERS AND MADISON’ NOTES WHERE NEVER MADE A PART OF THE CONSTITUION, THE FEDERLIST PAPERS WERE THE SELLING POINTS FOR THE ORGINIAL RATIFICATION CAMPAIGN TO SELL THE CONSTITUTION AND ARE GOOD FOR REFERENCE BUT ARE NEVER DETERMINATE AS JOHN ROBERTS RECENT MAJORITY OPINION MADE VERY CLEAR.

George Somsel says:
September 2, 2012 at 11:00 am

Actually, “promote the general welfare” expresses the purpose of the enumerated powers and is not a power in itself. It is too general to be a power delegated to the government since it is dependent upon one’s personal opinion of what promotes the general welfare and might (probably will) differ from that of others. It reminds me of Bam Bam’s repeated appeal to fairness (“the rich need to pay their fair share”). Who made him the arbiter of what is fair? Is it fair that 10% of the population pay the largest portion of taxes (and the top 25% pay 90% of taxes) while 50% of the population pays nothing with some even receiving money as “earned income credit.” That doesn’t sound particularly fair to me (and I don’t come anywhere near being rich so I don’t have a dog in this fight).

THE CHIEF JUSTICE IN HIS RECENT RULING DISAGREES WITH YOU. YOUR ENTITLED TO YOUR OWN OPINION BUT IT IS WORTHLESS IF THE COURT HAS SAID YOU ARE WRONG AND THEY CLEARLY HAVE HERE. YOU SOUND LIKE A REAL FRUSTRATED MAN FILLED WITH HATE OF OBAMA AS YOUR FIGURES ABOVE ARE TOTALLY SKEWED, PROPORATITE EQUAL TAXATION IS THE ONLY WAY YOU CAN COMPARE APPLES TO APPLES AND THE RICH PAY A VERY SMALL AMOUNT PROPORTAIANTELY, HALF DO NOT PAY INCOME TAXES ANYMORE BECAUSE THEIR WAGES DROPPED SO DRASTICALLY THAT THEY NO LONGER ARE REQUIRED TO, THE RATES HAVE NOT CHANGED MUCH

While I haven’t sat down and read Chief Justice Robert’s decision in detail, I very much doubt that he said anything to contradict what I stated. If so, perhaps you could quote the section (somewhat extensively and without editing).

DaveH says:
September 2, 2012 at 10:52 am
DaveH says:
September 2, 2012 at 10:47 am
DaveH says:
September 2, 2012 at 10:07 am
DaveH says:
September 2, 2012 at 10:05 am
DaveH says:
September 2, 2012 at 10:03 am

ALL OF THESE POSTS YOU MADE ARE MERE OPINIONS OF THE AUTHORS AND SOME ACTUAL DISTORT REALITY, THE FEDERALIST PAPERS HAVE SOME VALIDLY BUT ARE NOT A PART OF THE CONSTITUTION AND HAVE BEEN USED AS REFERENCE BUT NEVER DETERMINATE.. THE COURT RULINGS IS WHAT COUNT AS ONLY THEY HAVE THE AUTHORITY TO DEFINE IT’S MEANING AND THEY HAVE DEFINED OBAMACARE AS GENERAL WELFARE UNDER THE TERMS OF ARTICLE 8 SECTION 1, THAT WAS ROBERTS OPINION WHICH CLEARLY IS IN 180 DEGREE CONTRAST TO YOU AND OTHERS RESPONDING TO ME ON THIS THREAD.

George Somsel says:
September 2, 2012 at 12:55 pm

You can find it on the supreme court’s web page and others, the court determined you could not collect the penalty (tax by their definition) under the commerce clause but that you could collect it under the the enumeration powers given Congress in Article 1 section 8, paragraph one. dealing with the power to lay and collect taxes to provide for the general welfare. Look it up.

Yes, I am aware of its being upheld as a tax, but that says nothing regarding it being allowed by the general welfare clause.

Smilee shouts (getting a little frantic are we, Sleepee?) — “ALL OF THESE POSTS YOU MADE ARE MERE OPINIONS OF THE AUTHORS”.
Educated opinions, Sleepee, with backup references, unlike yours.

You can repeat your Propaganda all day long, Sleepee, and it will still just be Propaganda.
James Madison 1831 — “With respect to the words ‘general welfare’, I have always regarded them as qualified by the detail of powers connected with them. To take them in a literal and unlimited sense would be a metamorphosis of the Constitution into a character which there is a host of proofs was not contemplated by it creators”.

You lose, Sleepee. Now lay down and take a nap.

http://freelythinking.com/genwel.htm

From the Federalist #41 (by James Madison):
http://www.constitution.org/fed/federa41.htm

“Some, who have not denied the necessity of the power of taxation, have grounded a very fierce attack against the Constitution, on the language in which it is defined. It has been urged and echoed, that the power “to lay and collect taxes, duties, imposts, and excises, to pay the debts, and provide for the common defense and general welfare of the United States,” amounts to an unlimited commission to exercise every power which may be alleged to be necessary for the common defense or general welfare. No stronger proof could be given of the distress under which these writers labor for objections, than their stooping to such a misconstruction.
Had no other enumeration or definition of the powers of the Congress been found in the Constitution, than the general expressions just cited, the authors of the objection might have had some color for it; though it would have been difficult to find a reason for so awkward a form of describing an authority to legislate in all possible cases”.

James Madison, by the way, is generally regarded as the Father of the Constitution. No other man was as instrumental as James Madison in creating the Constitution.
Smilee and his Progressive Cohort Usurpers would have us believe that James Madison did not know what the passages of the Constitution meant.

DaveH says:
September 2, 2012 at 1:58 pm

You have become so frustrated it has effected any rational thought on your part.

DaveH says:
September 2, 2012 at 2:04 pm

You can repeat your Propaganda all day long, Sleepee, and it will still just be Propaganda.

James Madison 1831 — “With respect to the words ‘general welfare’, I have always regarded them as qualified by the detail of powers connected with them. To take them in a literal and unlimited sense would be a metamorphosis of the Constitution into a character which there is a host of proofs was not contemplated by it creators”.

You lose, Sleepee. Now lay down and take a nap.

NO, YOU LOSE DAVIE AS CHIEF JUSTICE ROBERTS HAS SHOT DOWN YOUR BS STATEMENTS AND THAT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH ME.

DaveH says:
September 2, 2012 at 2:05 pm

http://freelythinking.com/genwel.htm

ANOTHER GARBAGE SITE FROM DAVY

DaveH says:
September 2, 2012 at 2:13 pm

From the Federalist #41 (by James Madison):
http://www.constitution.org/fed/federa41.htm

“Some, who have not denied the necessity of the power of taxation, have grounded a very fierce attack against the Constitution, on the language in which it is defined. It has been urged and echoed, that the power “to lay and collect taxes, duties, imposts, and excises, to pay the debts, and provide for the common defense and general welfare of the United States,” amounts to an unlimited commission to exercise every power which may be alleged to be necessary for the common defense or general welfare. No stronger proof could be given of the distress under which these writers labor for objections, than their stooping to such a misconstruction. Had no other enumeration or definition of the powers of the Congress been found in the Constitution, than the general expressions just cited, the authors of the objection might have had some color for it; though it would have been difficult to find a reason for so awkward a form of describing an authority to legislate in all possible cases”.

ITS NOT APPLICABLE TO THE TOPIC, QUIT GOING OFF ON A TANGENT AND FOCUS ON THE TOPIC THAT IS BEING ADDRESSED

DaveH says:
September 2, 2012 at 2:17 pm

James Madison, by the way, is generally regarded as the Father of the Constitution. No other man was as instrumental as James Madison in creating the Constitution.
Smilee and his Progressive Cohort Usurpers would have us believe that James Madison did not know what the passages of the Constitution meant.

IF COURT DECISIONS LATER CONTRADICT HIM THEM WHAT HE SAID IS TOTALLY IRRELAVANT TO ANY INTERPETATION OF THE CONSTITUION. YOU SEEM TO BE STUCK IN THE 18TH CENTURY COME BACK TO THE PRESENT DAVIE

Smilee, the Constitution is the Constitution and means precisely what the authors meant. You can’t change a writing simply because time has passed. If you wish to change it, you must follow the procedure set forth and not simply decide that it means what you would like for it to mean. In that case, it would have no meaning whatsoever.

Davie

I didn’t try to change anything I just gave you Judge Roberts Opinion, it is you whom is trying to change it, trust me Judge Roberts opinion counts your does not. No more lies about me OK.

Take it easy on ole Smilee. He/she likes to take a page from Slick Willy’s playbook… “depends on what the definition of ‘is’ is”.

Next thing ya know, he/she’ll tell to get the real meaning of a word from an attorney…that Webster was a moron and the dictionary is irrelevant…at least that’s the way it is in Smilee’s world.

Sorry Davie, That last post of mine was to George and not you.

Jeff

Go look in a law dictionary, they often use words in different context than Webster or ask an attorney but if you insist on closing your mind you will never learn the truth. It was not from slick Willy’s playbook but I’m sure he would agree and you could never hold a candle to him, he is intelligent!!

Smilee, like I said, in your world Webster was a moron and you’re intelligent. ROFLMAO…go see a lawyer to get the meaning of that if you think it means something other than what it is. You’re a pathetic piece of work…too many episodes of Ironsides?

Hey! Stop that, I liked Ironsides. In fact I got on Hulu or Netflix and started watching it again. I never did get to when they got the new van.

The only bad stuff I’ve heard is from conservatives. Do you honestly think the DNC is not gonna be using the same tactics?

Karolyn, conservatives deservedly talk bad about our government, not bad about America.

No matter how hard they try to conceal it, the Obamas just can’t help themselves when it comes to showing their true feelings about America. Today, Barack Obama answered a seven-year-old who asked why he wanted to be President with this:

“America is …, uh, is no longer, uh … what it could be, what it once was. And I say to myself, I don’t want that future for my children.”
______________________________________________

Obama denigrates U.S. in report to United Nations
August 27, 2010

The Obama Administration made public its first-ever report to the United Nations Human Rights Council detailing the condition of human rights in America and subjecting our nation to criticism from countries like Iran, Cuba, China and others.

According to the report, the United States violates human rights because of high unemployment rates, hate crimes, poverty, poor housing, lack of access to health care, and discriminatory hiring practices affecting Blacks, Latinos, Muslims, South Asians, Native Americans, and homosexuals.

Mathew Staver, Founder of Liberty Counsel and Dean of Liberty University School of Law, commented: “The presidency of Barack Obama will be remembered as one that sought to humiliate America by prostrating it before some of the worst human rights violators in the world. To ask North Korea to help America ‘form a more perfect union’ is insane.”
___________________________________________________

Wednesday, August 20, 2008
Obama quotes Bible, denigrates America
Obama said at Saddleback……….
“Americans’ greatest moral failure in my lifetime,” he said, “has been that we still don’t abide by that basic precept in Matthew that whatever you do for the least of my brothers, you do for me.”

JeffH says:
August 31, 2012 at 11:13 pm

Karolyn, conservatives deservedly talk bad about our government, not bad about America

Jeff, WE THE PEOPLE are our government and America it is all one and the same a fact conservatives fail to comprehend .. When Reagan said Government is the problem he was really saying we the people were the problem and he planted the seed of hate of government which caught root and grew up to be a destructive weed in our society today , it has become the food that Conservative now exist on, Government is the authority in our lives and rebellion against authority results in breakdown in society. Government has to be managed wisely by we the people not trying to make everyone believe it is your enemy. This is self destructive behavior that conservatives are so deeply guilty of today. Conservatives used to mean well managed and efficient government not bad government that they are working so hard to attain today. I left the conservative movement recently and I had been very active with it and the reason I left was because of the hatred they now towards government and many of their fellow men which they are now espousing. It is bad and Obama acknowledges that, conservatives pat themselves on the back and pretend it is not true yet almost all at the GOP convention were ranting and raving how bad things were and wanting us to believe it only got that way in the last three and a half years when we have been headed in this direction for thirty years and their solution going back to doing the same things we have been doing the last 30 years and expect things to get better. Romney promised 12 million new jobs in the next four years when the record for job creation amounts happened under both Reagan and Clinton but it took them all 8 years to get to 12 million and Romney is asking us to believe he can do it in half the time with an economy twice as bad. Only a fool would believe that. That is but only one false claim of many at the convention the other big one was Ryan blaming Obama for the closing the Janesville GM plant when it had been closed for a month before Obama took office. One must wonder if you have to fabricate these these things is it because you have no real solutions.Just blame it on something else and offer solutions that no one to date is able to comprehend without more detail except the Ryan Budget Plan that is in writing and fully endorsed by Romney which almost all Professional Responsible and credible persons whom have studied it say it would be a disaster if implemented. Beware these two phonies bearing fools gold solutions. If your an alcoholic the first step to recovery is acknowledging you have a drinking problem and the same is true with government and that is recognizing we are in reality as superior a people as the conservatives try to say we are. Never the less we are a good people just that we are letting ourselves be misled, I also believe the Germans were and are good people but look were they let Hitler lead them, it started with false promises and ended in disaster, Please do not think that I think the Romney/Ryan ticket is planning anything close to that but if they destroy the economy by going back to doing the same thing as we have been doing the last thirty years we will destroy it and Obama’s direction which is a new direction and in its infancy and needs time to grow or it to will die, It took 30 years to get were we are at today and what Obama has done will not mature until sometime after he leaves office in 2017 but it will get us where we need to go if we do not derail it. I am old enough to remember the economic good times we had in the fifties, sixties and most of the seventies and have watched this planned destruction that the conservative movement has swung to in the last thirty years and it has not been good for anyone. If we do not let ourselves be misled we can come back to prosperity.

In 1900 Government spending was 3% of the GDP.
Currently Government spends over 40% of our GDP.
That’s a 13 times increase in the size of Government. How could we possibly need 13 times more Government protection now? Are there 13 times as many Smilees to contend with now as there were then?

Smilee says — “I am old enough to remember the economic good times we had in the fifties, sixties and most of the seventies”.
Hmm. Maybe Smilee is on to something:
Government spending in 1950 — 24% of GDP.
Government spending in 1960 — 29% of GDP.
Government spending in 1970 — 31% of GDP.
Government spending in 2010 — 41% of GDP.

http://www.usgovernmentspending.com/spending_chart_1950_2011USb_13s1li111mcn_F0t

Davie, Your figures show only a small piece of the puzzle, we had a much more balanced economy then, a strong middle class as opposed to today were we have a large poverty class, a very rich class and a very small middle class. We then had living wages without all the welfare programs for working people which were developed in the eighties and over the last thirty years, today almost half our population does not make enough money to pay any income taxes in fact many of them receive earned income credit which is us taxpayers paying for those with low wages because they are underpaid. Public corporations at least should have to refund the money given their employee under the program but we do not make them and this of course means more money can go to the stockholders and we pick up the tab and this is but a small part of the puzzle today there are many others. I went into the work force in 1962 and that year and every year since I have paid taxes, many doing my line of work today do not and some receive these benefits due to reduced wages. The poverty line in 1962 was a real poverty line today the real poverty line is 400% of the poverty line. Does any of this open your eyes. This should give you an idea how the fifties, sixties and seventies were before all these government handouts for workers that mostly benefit businesses today came into existence, Your attempts to say otherwise are false or incomplete or both.

Sleepee,
You’ve been trying to manipulate me your Progressive techniques for how long now? When is it going to dawn on you guys that adolescent techniques only work on the kind of ignorant people who wouldn’t understand why Freedom works anyway?
Sleepee says — “Does any of this open your eyes….. Your attempts to say otherwise are false or incomplete or both”.
All I see in your statement, Sleepee, is a lot of conjecture with no real facts and no references to back you up. Since, as I stated (with backup), the Government is now 30% bigger than in 1970, how come they haven’t remedied those claimed conditions? Of course I know they can’t. And I suspect you do also, but being the administration shill that you are, you will say differently in an attempt to sway ignorant readers.
All Government can do to spur an economy is to get out of the way of the real job creators.
We can see that here (the Bigger Government gets, the Smaller the Economy gets):
http://heritage.org/index/ranking

What gets me is that the Progressives’ economic ideas aren’t even logical. But even worse, their ideas have been proven failures throughout History and all over the world. They must rely on ignorance and human emotion to propagate their Propaganda.
Ohh, but maybe this time they will work. Even though they haven’t worked for any other country. Yeah, sure.
Progressivism is all about well-being and success — For the Leaders and their Pals. The rest of us can eat the crumbs.

DaveH says:
September 1, 2012 at 5:03 pm

See my post about Norway, it is and it has worked very well for them, their economy is booming with 3% unemployment and there are other countries too that do, the problem is not collectively doing things. It is caused by other reasons and there are many in europe.

Yeah sure, Smilee, whatever you say:
http://www.cato.org/pubs/pas/pa-603.pdf

This blogger says it well:
http://mises.org/Community/forums/t/5616.aspx

DaveH says:
September 1, 2012 at 4:58 pm

Sleepee,
You’ve been trying to manipulate me your Progressive techniques for how long now? I NEVER HAVE THAT IS JUST YOUR IMAGINATION WORKING OVERTIME When is it going to dawn on you guys that adolescent techniques only work on the kind of ignorant people who wouldn’t understand why Freedom works anyway?

WE DISAGREE YOUR INTERPETATION ONLY FOCUSES ON YOU AND WHAT YOU WANT AND IF THAT INFRINGES ON SOMEONE ELSES FREEDOM YOU COULD CARE LESS, FREEDOM FOR ALL DOES OT SEEM TO INTEREST YOU

Sleepee says — “Does any of this open your eyes….. Your attempts to say otherwise are false or incomplete or both”. All I see in your statement, Sleepee, is a lot of conjecture with no real facts and no references to back you up. Since, as I stated (with backup), the Government is now 30% bigger than in 1970,

{SO IS THE POULATION SO WHY WOULD BELIEVE WOULD GOVERNMENT NOT KEEP PACE, GOVERNMENT PER CAPITA IS THE SMALLEST IT HAS BEEN IN ALMOST 60 YEARS, LESS SIZE AND LESS TAX REVENUE }

how come they haven’t remedied those claimed conditions? Of course I know they can’t. And I suspect you do also, but being the administration shill that you are, you will say differently in an attempt to sway ignorant readers.

DAVIE I HAVE KNOW FOR A LONG TIME YOU ARE ONE OF THE IGNORANT READER WHO CANNOT BE SWAYED BUT OUR CONVERSAATION MAY OPEN THE EYES OF THE INTELLIGENT.

All Government can do to spur an economy is to get out of the way of the real job creators. We can see that here (the Bigger Government gets, the Smaller the Economy gets)

WE HAVE DONE THAT MORE AND MORE ESPECIALLY SINCE THE NINETIES AND DO YOU REALLY BELIEVE IT HAS WORKED. YOU HAVE AN UNHEALTY TAKE ON AUTHORITY WHICH IS VERY SIMILAR TO THE NORMAL TEENAGER, YOU KNOW THEY THIINK THEYKNOW IT ALL AND LATER REALIZE THEY DON’T, YOU HAVE NOT REACHED THAT STAGE YET.

http://heritage.org/index/ranking THEY HAVE BECOME MORE AND MORE A PROPAGANDA SITE AND SHOOULD BE IGNORED AND WISE PEOPLE DO.

DaveH says:
September 2, 2012 at 10:58 am

Yeah sure, Smilee, whatever you say:
http://www.cato.org/pubs/pas/pa-603.pdf

THERE IS MUCH IN THIS ARTICLE I AGREE WITH EXCEPT THERE ARE BIG DIFFERENCES BETWEEN THE NORDIC COUNTRIES TOO AND THEY SHOULD NOT BE GROUPED TOGETHER AND I WAS ONLY SPEAKING OF NORWAY, HE IGNORES QUITE A BIT BUT A LOT OF HIS ARTICLLE IS FACT. HIS TAKE ON THEIR HIGHER TAXES AND LOWER GNP CANNOT BE COMPARED DIRECLY WITH THE USA. OUR GDP INCLUEDS HEALTH CARE INSURANC COSTS, DAY CARE ETC AND THERE ARE NO PRIVATE HEALTH INSURANCE COMPANIES OR DAY CARE CENTERS IN NORWAY AND TO GET AN APPLES TO APPLES COMPARISONS YOU HAVE TO INCLUDE WITH USA TAXES PLUS ALL HEALTH CARE PREMIUMS, COPAYS, DEDUCTIABLES, OUT OF POCKET NON COVERED MEDICAL COST, DAY CARE COSTS AND ETC. AS THEY ARE PAID FOR BY TAXES THERE AND HERE THEY ARE NOT. THEIR UNEMPLOYMENT RATE IS A LITTLE OVER 3% AND THE ECONOMY IS BOOMING SO I WONDER IF HIS GDP NUMBERS FOR NORWAY MAY BE OUTDATE. HE INCLUDES ICELAND WITH IT WHOM WENT BANKRUPT AND HAD TO BE BAILED OUT, THEY INVESTED HEAVILLY IN TOXIC USA BANK INSTRUMENTS AND LOST THEIR A$$. THEIR KRONE IS 100TH OF NORWAYS IN VALUE. I DO NOT BUY THE FAR RIGHT WING PROPAGANDA ON THIS. DID YOU READ MY MORE IN DEPTH ARTICLE ABOVE.

Why don’t you leave Norway out of it since that has no bearing upon this country?

Smilee says — “http://heritage.org/index/ranking THEY HAVE BECOME MORE AND MORE A PROPAGANDA SITE AND SHOOULD BE IGNORED AND WISE PEOPLE DO”.

As usual the Progressive Smilee, bereft of factual retort, personally attacks an organization instead of trying to refute what they say.
Here’s another website that says the same thing:
http://www.freetheworld.com/2011/reports/world/EFW2011_complete.pdf

You’re getting shrill, Sleepee. Seek help.

 DaveH says:
September 2, 2012 at 10:58 am

Yeah sure, Smilee, whatever you say:

i forgot to mention this article is five years old too and before Iceland went bankrupt

http://www.cato.org/pubs/pas/pa-603.pdf

DaveH says:
September 2, 2012 at 11:00 am

This blogger says it well:
http://mises.org/Community/forums/t/5616.aspx

This bloggers blog is three years old and filled with mostly inaccurate statements, Today Norway is considered highest standard of living in the world, they weathered the economic crises of 07-09 far better than anyone and gained from it. They today are rated the best standard of living in the world especially for woman something I can tell you they are very proud of. The low end of wages is the equivalent of $80,000,00 USD and their taxes about half of that leaving them about $40,000.00 disposal income and none has to be used for health care cost’s, pension costs, day care costs and others (see my post on Norway above) that we have to purchase out of our disposable income and do it on a much lower amount.of income. I can tell you they would never trade places with us.

Norway is totally irrelevant.

DaveH says:
September 2, 2012 at 2:22 pm

I often read their web site and are on their mailing lists. I always look at all sides and do not limit myself to just this kind of sites that you seem to take as gospel, My view of the Hertiage foundation is that it has become an almost all garbage site. Remember back when they came up with the idea of what we now call Obamacare and Mitt pushed it into law in Mass, they have changed 180 degrees since then and are not worth giving them the time of day.

DaveH says:
September 2, 2012 at 2:24 pm

You’re getting shrill, Sleepee. Seek help.

What do you mean shrill, it appears to me the truth has silenced you so now you just throw out garbage words with out explaining what they mean if anything.

George Somsel says:
September 2, 2012 at 3:02 pm

Why don’t you leave Norway out of it since that has no bearing upon this country?

WHY THEN HAVE YOU BEEN PARTICIPATING IN THE CONVERSATION??????

I participate in the conversation since most of it hasn’t been about Norway. Why do you imbeciles on the left always want to transform this country to be like some other country? We were doing just fine as ourselves until people started to look to other countries. We were the envy of the world, and we can be again if we get back to being ourselves.

George

Closed minds never solved problems, open minds look at all options, you have a very closed mind

Smilee, you talk about having an open mind…bet you think your mind is open, and I’d bet it is. Open to the point of lokking in one of your ears and seeing out the other.

Who are you trying to convince with all of your blathering? Most of us have had your number for a long, long time…ah yes, the open minded liberal…so he/she thinks.

Don’t you know that all liberals are open minded? They have a hole in their head where the brains are supposed to be.

George, and if you don’t see it their(liberal)way, it because you’re not “intelligent”.

Mitt is going to inherit massive inflation for sure. The “greenies” are going to be suicidal when the drill rig pulls up in front of their mailbox. Go ahead mittens, “unleash the beast”. Full steam ahead!

Vigilant claims: “Just think, if Obama’s re-elected, he’ll “inherit” one Hell of a mess from HIMSELF.”

No, it’s the SAME problems as GWB passed on, just not quite so bad.

Had the Republicans NOT stood in the way for all these years we would be much better off.

Just think… A stratigy of obstructionsim and name calling to keep America in an economic ditch as a political effort.

How sad.

Rob

Robert, Robert ! Open your mail! We’re not bashing Bush anymore( that’s too wornout) We’ve moved on to Nixon now, We are also praying for a major volcanic eruption, that’s the only natural disaster we haven’t attempted to blame for Obamas incompetence and lack of leadership!

Well said Rob Smith:
EXCEPT, the “obstructionism” complaint from Obama himself was coming at a time when he had BOTH Houses on HIS side for the first half of HIS term and the last half of Bush IIs second term! So WHO was doing the obstructing? the outvoted minority party? Please!
AND, lest we forget, if anything, Bush II signed off on just about anything the Democrats put in front of him during BOTH terms! So where was the “obstruction”? The Farm Bill? The Highway Bill? The No Children Left Behind Bill? The Free Meds for Seniors Bill? The complaint from Democrats then was out-of-this-world spending by Bush, but WHO put forth all of those bills? Kennedy, Leahy, Dodd, and McCain (hardly a fiscal conservative)! Yet at the timethe ink hardly dried and the Dems complaint was that it wasn’t enough (but way too much at election time)! Now spending MORE than 43 previous presidents COMBINED in less than 4 years, it’s still not enough? HOW can that still be laid on Bush’s doorstep???? No good sir, it’s Obama’s mess AND legacy, win or lose this year.

JCfromDC says:
August 31, 2012 at 10:42 am

Your either forgetting, ignoring or do not understand how government works. In the senate you need 60 votes to pass any new laws and 18 of these 24 months the democrats only had 59 so that left the senate in full control for only 6 months. The GOP used every stalling tactic in their tool box to be sure Obama did not get his agenda passed into law. During that two years and since the republicans set an all time record for filibusters, Obama Care became law during that six months because when Franken was sworn in they reached 60 and lost it again when Brown took Kennedy’s seat moving it back down to 59. Franken is the reason we got Obamacare not Obama’s as he could not have signed the bill without it passing in Congress.

Robert says: Had the Republicans NOT stood in the way for all these years we would be much better off.

Just think… A stratigy of obstructionsim and name calling to keep America in an economic ditch as a political effort.

For sure, Rob. However, he had no problems passing all those executive orders of his; none of which, btw, had anything to do with creating jobs.

Yeah, but he won’t care…Just balme it on Bush and head for the golf course!

rob, the dem’s controlled the house when bush was in, congressional approval got us into iraq, frannie, freddie; and now solyndra, selling firearms to the murderous cartels, obamacare, the list goes on and on, but i don’t have all day.
i’m just hope those that voted for obama because he was black/white, will vote not vote for him this time to prove they aren’t racist’s. we definately need a CHANGE in the WH, maybe AMERICAN’S will vote with their brains this time.

Karolyn, your comment is so mean, insensitive and disgusting. Someday you may be 82 and one can only hope that you would still be able to hear someone ridicule you because you’re old and out of touch. Well old maybe because you’ve seemed to have been out of touch with reality anyway.
You are a Hypocrit Karolyn and your words are no different than Schultz, Maddow and Matthews.

I am with you Karolyn. His demeanor was awful. He made a spectacle out of himself. I notice even Paul Ryan was shaking his head. Don S.

And so called people like you should not be able to talk, you are such a disgusting piece of quap

Clint is a real American, unlike Hussein Obama. ” When somebody does not do the job, we got to let them go.”….Clint Eastwood

Come on, Jeff, I was embarrassed for him. It totally surprised me because he has a new movie out. I was shocked at what I saw.

Also, Jeff, i have heard you say much more mean, disgusting and insensitive things about others. Who’s the hypocrite?

Karolyn, c’mon K, weak and lousy response. This response isn’t about me, it’s about your constant faux “rose colored” outlook.

I don’t say one thing and then do another…you do because you are a hypocrit!

no he is right were he belongs with the rest of the losers

Jeff – This forum is a bad influence. It can be difficult not to buy into the negativity. It is much easier for negativity to rub off on a positive person than vice versa. However, I do enjoy the joust and am happy when i can contibute something of value. (Despite what you might think, I do!)

I loved the old, “Go ahead and make my day’er!” I laughed many times at his dry humor and Karolyn you didn’t “get it” because you didn’t listen.. He did a great job, at 82, without a teleprompter!!

I loved the idea of the “empty chair” that was supposed to be obumscum! Couldn’t have been a better idea…this “empty chair” we have in the oval office is too busy being on the golf course, being on a perpetual fund raising tour, or being on some lavish vacations paid for by the “working Americans.”

We have a bad president that is missing in action most of the time, hiding from the American people, his own staff, congress, and the press (the press just makes-up their stuff anyway.)

I guess it was over your head. You should be as witty as Clint. There’s nothing wrong with Eastwood’s mind. You may have noticed that the audience got it! So did we out here! You didn’t like it, so you have to denigrate the man. What a kind person you are, like most liberal Democrats.

Karolyn, you are indeed hard to figure out sometimes. First, you say “Seemed to me like Clint is kind of losing it. A little too old for the public stage,” then follow it up with a comment about negativity on this site. Would you call your first comment positive and full of optimism?

Have you become so accustomed to the scripted, teleprompter-polished slickness of public relations puppets that you automatically condemn the performance of one who speaks as most Americans speak? Is it the American Idol syndrome that places shadow above substance?

Will you listen to and read the words of the politicos, or will you set up your scorecard based on looks, smoothness of delivery and the number of talk shows a person attends? Do negative political ads sway you like a weathervane, or do you scrutinize the history and obviously unconstitutional actions of the resident of the Oval Office?

Actually, what we saw was an actor from films who is used to working in very short takes which can be done again and again unttil it is acceptable rather than a stage actor who is used to the total story being done in one take and who is prepared to use improv to achieve the desired results. Stage acting is much more demanding.

I think Clint did a damned good job. It was an improvisational skit that got a lot of laughs and made an important point – If you hire someone to do a job, and the job isn’t being done to your satisfaction, it’s time to fire that person and hire someone else. He mocked an arrogant and ineffective President, and he did it very well.

Very good points. The upside to Clint’s presentation it was a distraction for the Democrats. They made fun of Clint rather than Romney. Many folks put empty chairs with flags on their front lawn on labor day.

Off topic – Still laughing that Gabby Douglas sat next to Mrs Oblamer on the Jay Leno show. Gabby said that after winning the gold medal, she “rewarded herself with an Egg McMuffin”. Mrs Food Police was not happy. Truth be told, I think Michelle Obama is right as far as good nutrition, especially for kids, but you can’t legislate it.

Only someone with no sense of humor would say Clint Eastwood was “out of touch” or even inappropriate. I thought it was hilarious.

Don, if you actually believe that she should NOT be allowed to speak simply because you don’t like what she had to say, perhaps you should pick yourself up and move you to a country where she would NOT have been allowed to speak simply because of what she is, not what ideas she might express. Almost any Arabian/Islamic country allows women NO voice in their politics.

I loved Clint he was great, I can’t wait to see his new movie. He was better than Bill Clintons speech, at least Clints was more honest. Everyone knows Clinton doesn’t want Obama to win, He wants Hillary to have a chance in 2016. If Obama wins again the Dems will run Biden in 2016 but if Romney wins the Dems will run Hillary in 2016.

Ally: I agree with what you said about Clint. He’s a great actor, and age hasn’t dulled his mind. I think every pause and every stammer was intended. It was an improvisational comedy skit, and he accomplished his goal: Make Obama look like the arrogant, incompetent buffoon that he is. I disagree with you about Biden. Not even the Democrats are stupid enough to run him for President.

Don’t overestimate the intelligence of Dumb-Old-Rats. They’re pretty stupid. It takes a certain amount of stupidity to be a Dumb-Old-Rat.

gfsomsel: Biden is the gift that keeps on giving. He’s kind of like a human whoopie cushion.

Folks who are stupid enough to elect Oblamer for a second term are also stupid enough to run Biden up the flagpole.

Kathy: I’d like to see that – feet first.

I didn’t see Clint’s speech. No TV reception (will have to go to a sports bar for Ryan/Biden debate). But, from what I read that was Classic Clint. Bizare is his norm and what makes him endearing. Great warm up for Mitt Romney!!!

George, my thoughts also. I really felt he was winging it and was intentionally humorous. I wonder if all of his pauses, hmmm’s and hawwww’s was just his subtle way of mocking Obama’s constant barrage of hmmmm’s and hawwww’s.

So did I George. He was very good, and right on point. Thanks.

He was funny and justifiably irreverent.

i thought the skit was great and very true.

That was one dumb-assed story.

‘Empty chair” …. “Empty suit” …..perfect analogy!

The book out by the New York times best seller I think called the Avenger? says OB doesn’t like his job as president so he is acting it.

Edgar Bergen was known for talking to blocks of wood, but no one claimed he had dementia. Perhaps your opinion of his medical condition is influenced by your political position?

Mirror says — “If you were a warrior you’d be volunteering in Afghanistan to fight the Taliban”.
No, he’s probably smarter than to fight a phony enemy who was ginned up to rally ignorant people behind the Leaders and their Crony Capitalists as they grow their Power and Wealth at the rest of our expense.
Read this to learn some reality about Wars and Leaders:
http://library.mises.org/books/John%20V%20Denson/A%20Century%20of%20War%20Lincoln,%20Wilson%20and%20Roosevelt.pdf

The Republican Party is no a Grand Old Party, it and the democrat Parties are both members of the Political Mafia, they are a disgrace to America, and in their conventions, they have both proven it. The both need to be gotten rid of, in favor of Constitutional Liberty. I am no longer a Republican after what they have done the last few years, and especially during this last So-Called Convention. It was really a burning of the US Constitution!

nc says “Warrior, the “empty chair’ could just as well been for george w. bush…”

But it wasn’t was it. LMAO!

GeorgeP: Perhaps you are right, maybe he was referring to the infrastructure. But does that matter much? His clear intent was to diminish the effort of the business builder, and share the business builder’s success with the government, who (he thinks) built the infrasturcture. What the socialist Obama fails to recognize (or refuses to acknowledge), is that businesses built the infrastructure with their tax money. Government doesn’t build anything.

I think Obama back peddled quickly when he realized the anger his statement evoked. He quickly inserted that he meant infrastructure. I ran an executive recruiting firm for about 30 years. The government never retained me for their staffing needs. I paid state and federal taxes an filled out the respective forms for them. Also had to pay a $50 a year permit fee for the privilege of collecting state taxes for them (at that time 4.5% of the total fee). If anything, government took up my time that I could have used more productively. Had 5 phone lines between home and office, so AT& T was the biggest contributor to my infrastructure. For most small to medium businesses between regulations and taxes, Gov’t is a liability rather than as asset.

I would love to see the income tax replaced with the Fair Tax. The government would no longer be able to wage class war with the tax code, and no longer be able to use the tax code to reward friends and punish enemies.

Kathy: Very well said.

Oh, yes, but he was referring to the businesses. Read the transcript.

Everyone has use of the infrastructure. Everyone has access to education. It is what is done by the individual that makes the difference between having a successful business and NOT having a successful business. So, yes, the individual is the one who made the difference, took the risk, used his/her time, effort, money and resources to make it happen.

Even the old fur traders, or the general store in a frontier town, WAY before roads, bridges, and public utilities. So, yes, what the individual does IS the important factor.

Some use the infrastructure to build success for themselves, provide jobs for others, pay their taxes, and show the way to “get ‘er done.”

Others use the intersections to beg for other people to help them, or use the bridges and public structures as living spaces, or toilets, or surfaces to paint their “art.” And use the force of government to get their “fair share.”

Let’s see, which is the more admirable use of the infrastructure?

Sorry, even in context, he’s saying that the business founder “didn’t build that” when, in fact, s/he did.