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Disinformation: How It Works

August 7, 2012 by  

Disinformation: How It Works
PHOTOS.COM

There was a time, not too long ago (relatively speaking), that governments and the groups of elites that controlled them did not find it necessary to conscript themselves into wars of disinformation.

Propaganda was relatively straightforward. The lies were much simpler. The control of information flow was easily directed. Rules were enforced with the threat of property confiscation and execution for anyone who strayed from the rigid socio-political structure. Those who had theological, metaphysical or scientific information outside of the conventional and scripted collective world view were tortured and slaughtered. The elites kept the information to themselves, and removed its remnants from mainstream recognition, sometimes for centuries before it was rediscovered.

With the advent of anti-feudalism, and most importantly the success of the American Revolution, elitists were no longer able to dominate information with the edge of a blade or the barrel of a gun. The establishment of Republics, with their philosophy of open government and rule by the people, compelled Aristocratic minorities to plot more subtle ways of obstructing the truth and thus maintaining their hold over the world without exposing themselves to retribution from the masses. Thus, the complex art of disinformation was born.

The technique, the “magic” of the lie, was refined and perfected. The mechanics of the human mind and the human soul became an endless obsession for the establishment.

The goal was malicious, but socially radical; instead of expending the impossible energy needed to dictate the very form and existence of the truth, they would allow it to drift, obscured in a fog of contrived data. They would wrap the truth in a Gordian Knot of misdirection and fabrication so elaborate that they felt certain the majority of people would surrender, giving up long before they ever finished unraveling the deceit. The goal was not to destroy the truth, but to hide it in plain sight.

In modern times, and with carefully engineered methods, this goal has for the most part been accomplished. However, these methods also have inherent weaknesses. Lies are fragile. They require constant attentiveness to keep them alive. The exposure of a single truth can rip through an ocean of lies, evaporating it instantly.

In this article, we will examine the methods used to fertilize and promote the growth of disinformation, as well as how to identify the roots of disinformation and effectively cut them, starving out the entire system of fallacies once and for all.

Media Disinformation Methods

The mainstream media, once tasked with the job of investigating government corruption and keeping elitists in line, has now become nothing more than a public relations firm for corrupt officials and their Globalist handlers. The days of the legitimate “investigative reporter” are long gone (if they ever existed at all), and journalism itself has deteriorated into a rancid pool of so called “TV Editorialists” who treat their own baseless opinions as supported fact.

The elitist co-opting of news has been going on in one form or another since the invention of the printing press. However, the first methods of media disinformation truly came to fruition under the supervision of newspaper magnate William Randolph Hearst, who believed the truth was “subjective” and open to his personal interpretation.

Some of the main tactics used by the mainstream media to mislead the masses are as follows:

Lie Big, Retract Quietly: Mainstream media sources (especially newspapers) are notorious for reporting flagrantly dishonest and unsupported news stories on the front page, then quietly retracting those stories on the very back page when they are caught. In this case, the point is to railroad the lie into the collective consciousness. Once the lie is finally exposed, it is already too late, and a large portion of the population will not notice or care when the truth comes out.

Unconfirmed Or Controlled Sources As Fact: Cable news venues often cite information from “unnamed” sources, government sources that have an obvious bias or agenda, or “expert” sources without providing an alternative “expert” view. The information provided by these sources is usually backed by nothing more than blind faith.

Calculated Omission: Otherwise known as “cherry picking” data. One simple piece of information or root item of truth can derail an entire disinfo news story, so instead of trying to gloss over it, they simply pretend as if it doesn’t exist. When the fact is omitted, the lie can appear entirely rational. This tactic is also used extensively when disinformation agents and crooked journalists engage in open debate.

Distraction, And The Manufacture Of Relevance: Sometimes the truth wells up into the public awareness regardless of what the media does to bury it. When this occurs their only recourse is to attempt to change the public’s focus and thereby distract them from the truth they were so close to grasping. The media accomplishes this by “over-reporting” on a subject that has nothing to do with the more important issues at hand. Ironically, the media can take an unimportant story, and by reporting on it ad nauseum, cause many Americans to assume that because the media won’t shut-up about it, it must be important!

Dishonest Debate Tactics: Sometimes, men who actually are concerned with the average American’s pursuit of honesty and legitimate fact-driven information break through and appear on T.V. However, rarely are they allowed to share their views or insights without having to fight through a wall of carefully crafted deceit and propaganda. Because the media know they will lose credibility if they do not allow guests with opposing viewpoints every once in a while, they set up and choreograph specialized T.V. debates in highly restrictive environments which put the guest on the defensive, and make it difficult for them to clearly convey their ideas or facts.

TV pundits are often trained in what are commonly called “Alinsky Tactics.” Saul Alinsky was a moral relativist, and champion of the lie as a tool for the “greater good”; essentially, a modern day Machiavelli. His “Rules for Radicals” were supposedly meant for grassroots activists who opposed the establishment and emphasized the use of any means necessary to defeat one’s political opposition. But is it truly possible to defeat an establishment built on lies, by use of even more elaborate lies, and by sacrificing one’s ethics? In reality, his strategies are the perfect format for corrupt institutions and governments to dissuade dissent from the masses. Today, Alinsky’s rules are used more often by the establishment than by its opposition.

Alinsky’s Strategy: Win At Any Cost, Even If You Have To Lie

Alinsky’s tactics have been adopted by governments and disinformation specialists across the world, but they are most visible in TV debate. While Alinsky sermonized about the need for confrontation in society, his debate tactics are actually designed to circumvent real and honest confrontation of opposing ideas with slippery tricks and diversions. Alinsky’s tactics, and their modern usage, can be summarized as follows:

1) Power is not only what you have, but what the enemy thinks you have.

We see this tactic in many forms. For example, projecting your own movement as mainstream, and your opponent’s as fringe. Convincing your opponent that his fight is a futile one. Your opposition may act differently, or even hesitate to act at all, based on their perception of your power. How often have we heard this line: “The government has predator drones. There is nothing the people can do now…” This is a projection of exaggerated invincibility designed to elicit apathy from the masses.

2) Never go outside the experience of your people, and whenever possible, go outside of the experience of the enemy.

Don’t get drawn into a debate about a subject you do not know as well as or better than your opposition. If possible, draw them into such a situation instead. Go off on tangents. Look for ways to increase insecurity, anxiety and uncertainty in your opposition. This is commonly used against unwitting interviewees on cable news shows whose positions are set up to be skewered. The target is blind-sided by seemingly irrelevant arguments that they are then forced to address. In television and radio, this also serves to waste broadcast time to prevent the target from expressing his own position.

3) Make the enemy live up to their own book of rules.

The objective is to target the opponent’s credibility and reputation by accusations of hypocrisy. If the tactician can catch his opponent in even the smallest misstep, it creates an opening for further attacks, and distracts away from the broader moral question.

4) Ridicule is man’s most potent weapon.

“Ron Paul is a crackpot.” “Gold bugs are crazy.” “Constitutionalists are fringe extremists.” Baseless ridicule is almost impossible to counter because it is meant to be irrational. It infuriates the opposition, which then reacts to your advantage. It also works as a pressure point to force the enemy into concessions.

5) A good tactic is one that your people enjoy.

The popularization of the term “Teabaggers” is a classic example; it caught on by itself because people seem to think it’s clever, and enjoy saying it. Keeping your talking points simple and fun helps your side stay motivated, and helps your tactics spread autonomously, without instruction or encouragement.

6) A tactic that drags on too long becomes a drag.

See rule No. 5. Don’t become old news. If you keep your tactics fresh, it’s easier to keep your people active. Not all disinformation agents are paid. The “useful idiots” have to be motivated by other means. Mainstream disinformation often changes gear from one method to the next and then back again.

7) Keep the pressure on with different tactics and actions, and utilize all events of the period for your purpose.

Keep trying new things to keep the opposition off balance. As the opposition masters one approach, hit them from the flank with something new. Never give the target a chance to rest, regroup, recover or re-strategize. Take advantage of current events and twist their implications to support your position. Never let a good crisis go to waste.

8) The threat is usually more terrifying than the thing itself.

This goes hand in hand with Rule No. 1. Perception is reality. Allow your opposition to expend all of its energy in expectation of an insurmountable scenario. The dire possibilities can easily poison the mind and result in demoralization.

9) The major premise for tactics is the development of operations that will maintain a constant pressure upon the opposition.

The objective of this pressure is to force the opposition to react and make the mistakes that are necessary for the ultimate success of the campaign.

10) If you push a negative hard and deep enough, it will break through into its counterside.

As grassroots activism tools, Alinsky tactics have historically been used (for example, by labor movements or covert operations specialists) to force the opposition to react with violence against activists, which leads to popular sympathy for the activists’ cause. Today, false (or co-opted) grassroots movements and revolutions use this technique in debate as well as in planned street actions and rebellions (look at Syria for a recent example).

11) The price of a successful attack is a constructive alternative.

Never let the enemy score points because you’re caught without a solution to the problem. Today, this is often used offensively against legitimate activists, such as the opponents of the Federal Reserve. Complain that your opponent is merely “pointing out the problems.” Demand that they offer not just “a solution”, but THE solution. Obviously, no one person has “the” solution. When he fails to produce the miracle you requested, dismiss his entire argument and all the facts he has presented as pointless.

12) Pick the target, freeze it, personalize it and polarize it.

Cut off the support network and isolate the target from sympathy. The target’s supporters will expose themselves. Go after individual people, not organizations or institutions. People hurt faster than institutions.

The next time you view an MSM debate, watch the pundits carefully, you will likely see many if not all of the strategies above used on some unsuspecting individual attempting to tell the truth.

Internet Disinformation Methods

Internet trolls, also known as “paid posters” or “paid bloggers,” are increasingly and openly being employed by private corporations as well governments, often for marketing purposes and for “public relations” (Obama is notorious for this practice). Internet “trolling” is indeed a fast growing industry.

Trolls use a wide variety of strategies, some of which are unique to the internet, here are just a few:

  1. Make outrageous comments designed to distract or frustrate: An Alinsky tactic used to make people emotional, although less effective because of the impersonal nature of the Web.
  2. Pose as a supporter of the truth, then make comments that discredit the movement: We have seen this even on our own forums — trolls pose as supporters of the Liberty Movement, then post long, incoherent diatribes so as to appear either racist or insane. The key to this tactic is to make references to common Liberty Movement arguments while at the same time babbling nonsense, so as to make those otherwise valid arguments seem ludicrous by association. In extreme cases, these “Trojan Horse Trolls” have been known to make posts which incite violence — a technique obviously intended to solidify the false assertions of the think tank propagandists like the SPLC, which purports that Constitutionalists should be feared as potential domestic terrorists.
  3. Dominate Discussions: Trolls often interject themselves into productive Web discussions in order to throw them off course and frustrate the people involved.
  4. Prewritten Responses: Many trolls are supplied with a list or database with pre-planned talking points designed as generalized and deceptive responses to honest arguments. When they post, their words feel strangely plastic and well rehearsed.
  5. False Association: This works hand in hand with item No. 2, by invoking the stereotypes established by the “Trojan Horse Troll.” For example: calling those against the Federal Reserve “conspiracy theorists” or “lunatics”; deliberately associating anti-globalist movements with racists and homegrown terrorists, because of the inherent negative connotations; and using false associations to provoke biases and dissuade people from examining the evidence objectively.
  6. False Moderation: Pretending to be the “voice of reason” in an argument with obvious and defined sides in an attempt to move people away from what is clearly true into a “grey area” where the truth becomes “relative.”
  7. Straw Man Arguments: A very common technique. The troll will accuse his opposition of subscribing to a certain point of view, even if he does not, and then attacks that point of view. Or, the troll will put words in the mouth of his opposition, and then rebut those specific words.

Sometimes, these strategies are used by average people with serious personality issues. However, if you see someone using these tactics often, or using many of them at the same time, you may be dealing with a paid internet troll.

Stopping Disinformation

The best way to disarm disinformation agents is to know their methods inside and out. This gives us the ability to point out exactly what they are doing in detail the moment they try to do it. Immediately exposing a disinformation tactic as it is being used is highly destructive to the person utilizing it. It makes them look foolish, dishonest and weak for even making the attempt. Internet trolls most especially do not know how to handle their methods being deconstructed right in front of their eyes and usually fold and run from debate when it occurs.

The truth is precious. It is sad that there are so many in our society who have lost respect for it; people who have traded in their conscience and their soul for temporary financial comfort while sacrificing the stability and balance of the rest of the country in the process.

The human psyche breathes on the air of truth. Without it, humanity cannot survive. Without it, the species will collapse, starving from lack of intellectual and emotional sustenance.

Disinformation does not only threaten our insight into the workings of our world; it makes us vulnerable to fear, misunderstanding, and doubt: all things that lead to destruction. It can drive good people to commit terrible atrocities against others, or even against themselves. Without a concerted and organized effort to diffuse mass-produced lies, the future will look bleak indeed.

–Brandon Smith

Brandon Smith

is the founder of the Alternative Market Project, an organization designed to help you find like-minded activists and preppers in your local area so that you can network and construct communities for barter and mutual aid. Join Alt-Market.com today and learn what it means to step away from the unstable mainstream system and build something better. You can contact Brandon Smith at: brandon@alt-market.com

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  • Norm

    Sounds like the Rush Limbaugh handbook.

  • Erica

    thank you brandon smith for an awesome article. even though i dont post to many articles, i do read the threads and have come to recognize the various trolls and the tactics they use. God bless all our patriots and our country.

  • James

    Twain once wrote, “It’s easier to fool people than it is to convince them that they’ve been fooled”!

    • DaveH

      So true.

    • Mc Ham

      Very well put and very true.

  • Phil

    It looks like you forgot to mention “false choice” as a method.

  • FreedomRules

    John says
    “The true news profession that was objective, did it’s job with pride and was therefor hated by the establishment are over.”

    You’re kidding, right? The news “profession” has never been objective.

    Johnny says
    ” And dont forget Allan West, the moron from florida who says there are approximately 78-83 communists in the democratic party…..of which none of his cronies have rebuked him……so you people keep spreading your lies for your sheep to follow ”

    Why would any of them rebuke the truth. A la Dirty Harry Reid, proove that West is wrong.

  • Ron r

    You have just described Fox News and this page.

    • cawmun cents

      Pointing the finger of blame…..that is what I said in an earlier post about you and your ilk.
      Thank you for making my point truthful and relevant.
      But what do I know?
      Apparently very little……
      Cheers!
      -CC.

    • Shane

      By your minimal standards of media criticism Ron r, you have also condemn what is commonly known as the main street media. CBS, NBC, ABC, MSNBC, CNN, etc. Along with the New York Times, Atlanta Journal Constitution, etc.

      So what’s your point?

      That you’re as bias and dishonest as FOX News and this site? Along with the other news sites that you have ignored, using your “own” standards.

      Let me clue you in on something Ron r. You’re a filty rotted sinner. I know it. You know it. And anyone with an ouch of sense knows it. You’re a lousy sinner, scum bag and less than perfect human being Ron r.

      But so am I. A lousy sinner, scum bag and less than perfect human being.

      Bob Livingston is also, as every reader and writer to this site. Whether they wish to admit to that or not.

      So what’s your point Ron r? That FOX News and this site is less than always fair. Well taken. Why did you give a pass to the other media sites? Unless you can prove that FOX News and this site is considerably worst and dishonest, a fair and knowledgeable person would have included the main stream media in your fairness statement.

      What’s was my point as to the “sin” issue that I interjected in this topic. The simple fact is that we all sin and are imperfect, but we are all not little Sandusky’s. All news sites have their own bias, and are less than perfect in how they wish to promote their beliefs. But not all news sites are equally corrupt.

      • http://wildeyguns.com The Christian American

        I believe Christ said to Pontius Pilate whe he asked him..”What is truth”? Christ responded with: “I am the truth and the life, no man cometh to the Father but by me”. We’re taught to think, innocent until proven guilty but today our salvation is..”Guilty until proven innocent”. Inorder to think like that people must know what truth is.

      • http://none Charlie

        Christian American ? ,,,King Jesus did not answer Pilates question about truth,, see John 18:38,,, see Acts 2:38 to become a True Christian…
        Praise King Jesus for Salvation and Healing …

  • Roy Estes

    and now for the politically incorrect , totally taboo response . Just WHO might I ask owns and controls ALL of this media and is responsible for the disinformation . Is this ownership and control coincidental or is it a contrived plan and what is that plan ?

    • cawmun cents

      The Enemy hasnt changed since day one.
      The crux of the issue has always,and continues to be,mankinds evil hearts.
      The Enemy knows this and through media,uses this to confuse and deceive.
      It is not the ownership of the information that you should concern yourself with,but the dissemination of faulty infromation that one should seek to curtail.
      Only by learning the truth and then telling others can this be helped.
      But this is not a by product of todays society,so you have to inject it yourself,into the infected folks directly.
      Think of disinformation as a virus….because that is exactly what it is….sickness.
      Spiritual sickness.
      Cheers!
      -CC.

    • Nadzieja Batki

      The owners of the newspapers, magazines, TV, etc., may believe that they own what information is passed on to the people. But they are actually slaves and servants of the people who consume the information and are therefore picking and choosing what information is fed them.

      • cawmun cents

        Yes Nadz…..
        But lets face it…you are never free of the infomation which you choose to fill yourself with.
        The fault lies in the perception of the value of information.
        Surely some information has value,but just what info does,and to what extent?
        Ah yes…..why naievete’ plays a central part in the story of original sin.
        Too much info…..bad…not enough….bad…..making up what you want info to say in your own estimation….bad…….
        Getting info from the primary source……priceless.
        Cheers!
        -CC.

  • Jonathan

    Believe it or not this system of control has been around for a long time. The Romans were doing this to the masses back in early AD.

    Take the Bible for instance. They wanted absolute control of the people, like most governments, so they contrived a lie by rewriting and changing the bible, especially the new testament. To pin it down even more, “the story of Jesus.” The great minds of their day knew how the populous thought and how they could be controlled, so they changed the story of Jesus and made him out to be a super man who could heal any human ailment that existed. Than they took the power out of the gospel by taking his earthly father away and making him half God and half man. And thinking the way humans do, anyone in their right mind could worship such a man. He was half God and half man with these super human powers. Than they gave the masses a “burning hell,” that they would live in, (for ever,) if they did not believe in this elaborate story. They used the methods of fear and guilt to extort money and keep absolute control of the masses. They murdered, “in the most grotesque way,” anyone that questioned this story, or they excommunicated them, condemning them to an eternal hell. This went on for roughly 1200 years. This method was so successful, that it is still working today hundreds of years after we have thought to free our selves of their tyranny.

    The real story of Jesus is quite different. The power that Jesus had was not to heal the physical ailments but the spiritual ones. His real story was to give the human race absolute power over sin. In other words, we can live the same life he did, “FREE FROM SIN.” But people don’t like that gospel. They want an easy one that lets them keep doing what they like behind closed doors, but will also save them from this eternal hell. This has been one of the great marks of the Roman Catholic church, SELLING CONDOLENCES TO SIN. They still do this today, you just go in, confess, pay, and your free to go.

    If this story hadn’t been changed, the world would be a different place to today. But sad to say, when you try to tell people this truth, and you mention that the bible has been changed, you get similar treatment that you received back then. People say you are of the devil and they condemn you to hell. The real story of Jesus and what he did for us as a people is the only thing that will change this world that we live in. It’s the only answer and always has been.

    Blessings on your day.

    • DaveH

      What’s real and what’s myth?
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=88GTUXvp-50

      But the fact remains that, without religion, who will teach people that it’s wrong to steal, or that it’s wrong to kill? Certainly not the Welfare Statists or the Military Statists.

      • http://incerely, truesoy

        DaveH;

        Are you then implying that before religion ever made its appearance in the human landscape, humans did not have a concept of right or wrong?. This is a failed assertion.
        For one thing is sure, religion has caused an outrageous amount of pain and suffering, and killings. Many of the killings, if not most, were sanctioned by the scriptures and even God had a role in them according to biblical accounts.
        There are many things that are naturally wrong, i.g., murder; but the vast majority of things considered to be wrong falls within the scope of morality as defined by society at any given time and are not written in stone. Society’s definition of wrong and/or right is a continuously evolving process. Thus the clash between society’s evolving norms and religious dogma is inevitable.
        The cause and effect is a tug of war for the supremacy of values from which the church slowly retreats and then yields to society.

        Sincerely,
        Truesoy

    • cawmun cents

      The Catholic church sells Indulgences,not Condolences.
      The indulgences are to buy ones relatives out of the fictional purgatory that was invented for the purposes of obtaining wealth from others.
      And that my friends is what is happening today, with the gubment.
      They are attempting to sell you Indulgences so that your consciouses can be free of doubt.
      Doubt in your gubmment.
      Doubt that you are enslaved.
      Doubt that they have your best interests in mind.
      Doubt in your own abilities to think for yourself.
      As long as you go along to get along,everything will be peachy keen,they explain to you as if you are petulant children.
      Just follow and dont ask questions…the truth about progressivism.
      Sorry…wont play their game.
      Cheers!
      -CC.

      • cawmun cents

        Get your Carbon Credits here!
        Three for a dollah!
        No…there are no such things as Indulgences,right?
        Haw!

    • Shane

      Johnathan, your statement is incorrect. While church culture / decree has changed. Historical reliability of the sriptures has been well documented through numerous and countless manuscripts that continue to be found in archaeology finds. Consistency is what is found in those many manuscripts that have been uncovered.

      Johnathan, you may wish to debate, reject and discuss whether Jesus is Lord. But your weak statement that you attempt to pass as truth, on the reliability of the historical writings of the bible manuscripts is a completely different matter from one’s spirtual belief.

    • http://none Charlie

      Jonathan,,, short on Scripture , long on wordiness ,,, to prove King Jesus is The King of America is to take “action” on what King Jesus and His Men said to do in the “coded” contexts of The Holy Bible ,,,to over come the “stuff” that Smith writes of in his article , do what the Bible says ,,,NOT what man says it says ,,,so ,,,The Bible says to receive Salvation one should be baptized see 1 Peter 3:21 to confirm that ,so , Acts 2:38 is the ranking Scripture to be baptized according to the Man that spoke 1 Peter 3:21…
      Act 2:38 also gives The Gift of The Holy Spirit when accomplished with understanding ..
      Lies are easy to see IF one has The Salvation of King Jesus Christ and The Gift of The Holy Spirit …

  • Sirian

    Brandon,
    Very good article, very informative. Only question is though how many people will finally realize how easily they are being used?

  • dan

    Brandon : Thankyou for the review…I certainly didn’t want to read Alinsky again !
    One grows weary of arguing against the Hegelian Dialectic where terms
    and definitions are changed ….another subtle method of subverting truth.

    • Sirian

      dan,
      Isn’t it surprising that Alinsky pulled a lot of his subversive knowledge from Al Capone and his boys? Most people aren’t aware of that little tid bit.

  • DaveH

    Outstanding article, Brandon Smith.
    Thank you.

  • Johnny

    I cant help but laugh at this…..this misinformation works both ways, I could swear Michelle Bachmann is talking about Huma Abedin and spreading lies about her and even republicans are jumping on her for doing so because of her unsubstantiated lies. And dont forget Allan West, the moron from florida who says there are approximately 78-83 communists in the democratic party…..of which none of his cronies have rebuked him……so you people keep spreading your lies for your sheep to follow……… Huma has had to go through more vetting for her post than Romney……it is like the liberal media says, Romney hasnt released enough taxes to get a cabinet post and he wants to be president…..it is like republicans taking the you didnt build that quote from Obama out of context, and making it sound like you didnt build your business when he is clearly talking about infrasturcture, roads and bridges and the educational system of which this country has flourished….you sit there and you make our point for us…..you are right about cherry picking facts …bravo.

    • Brandon Smith

      Who said anything about supporting Romney, or West, or Bachmann? Yet another strawman argument, this time from Johnny.

      • Oneguess

        Yep! Score one for you!

    • mike

      I was going to say the same thing but you beat me to the punch

      • cawmun cents

        Always the liberal with his fallacious tactics…..haw!
        If you dont like what I am saying I will toss in a heaping portion of Red Herring……
        Point the finger of blame at someone else…isnt that always a strong ploy?
        Throw the racecard.
        Drop the Bushbomb.
        Anything but the truth….Dammit Jim!
        I wont concede defeat,so I use whatever gruesome plan I can come up with on the spur of a moment.
        My rhetoric is faulty so I use deception and ruse to cast my netwebs of dispersion.
        Today’s modern progressive liberals are hilariously obvious to the point of absurdity.
        But who doesnt love to hand them their backsides in a debate?
        Cheers!
        -CC.

    • Steve E

      Looks like you are using all seven of Alinsky strategies.

    • DaveH

      The whole speech is right here, Johnny, for anybody who thinks you speak truth to investigate:
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uzf4yjphgf8

    • Sunshine49

      The doctrine of Communism is to spread the wealth around, so how many in Congress does that leave out?

      • http://teamlaw.org/TrusteeMessage.htm Jazzabelle

        Sunshine49, you wrote: “The doctrine of Communism is to spread the wealth around….”

        ??? Have you ever studied any ACTUAL communist society????

    • Vicki

      Johnny writes:
      “….it is like republicans taking the you didnt build that quote from Obama out of context, and making it sound like you didnt build your business when he is clearly talking about infrasturcture, roads and bridges and the educational system of which this country has flourished…”

      But we DID build the infrastructure. At least some of us did. In fact without private companies to make all the parts neither we nor the government agents could have done it.

      Private education (when allowed) has proven to be far better than public education.
      Bridges are built by private enterprise using money taken as taxes from private enterprise.
      Roads are built by private enterprise using money taken as taxes from private enterprise.
      Here is just one such company
      http://www.branscome.com/infrastructure-projects/roads-highways.html

      Now for a moment lets look at the “needs infrastructure” argument.
      Before there were roads there were many successful merchants. (what you might call small business today)
      Before there were bridges there were many successful merchants.
      Before the public education system foisted on us by government (state or federal) there were many successful merchants.

      Thus we don’t need the infrastructure. We like it. We may be more productive with it (think of how fun this discussion would be in the 1960s before there was a “net”.

      But we don’t NEED it to be successful at building.

    • Nancy in Nebraska

      Huma Abedin’s ENTIRE family was DIRECTLY INVOLVED with the muslim brotherhood! It DESERVES a look! She was NOT “vetted” or investigated before getting her position that gives her access to top secret material! The group of representatives (NOT JUST BACHMANN) want an investigation done because there was never one to begin with! And Huma Abedin is NOT the only person in this administration with ties to the muslim brotherhood! Others included on their list include, arif Ali kahn appointed asst. secretary for policy development at the department of homeland security. He once referred to hezbollah as a liberation movement. He raised funds for impac, the Muslim public affairs council affiliated with the muslim brotherhood. Salam al maraya, the current president of impac is a member of obummer’s legal team. Rashad hussein has a prominent envoy position in the state dept. in 2004, he spoke at the annual conference of a muslim brotherhood affiliate, the muslim students association. He defended convicted terrorist, samy alarian and criticized US terrorism prosecutions. Mohamed elibiary is a member of the homeland security advisory counsel. He founded the freedom and justice foundation in Plano, Texas. Freedom and justice is the political party of the muslim brotherhood in Egypt. He has access to security documents. In oct. of 2011 he took sensitive reports from the Texas department of public safety. Congress demanded answers from napoitano and got NONE!!! These people SHOULD HAVE BEEN INVESTIGATED BEFORE THEY WERE GIVEN THESE POSITIONS!!! Obumass himself should have been investigated!!! Our entire government has been taken over by the ENEMY!!!

      • http://incerely, truesoy

        Nanvy in (la-la lan) Nebraska;

        I feel bad for what I’m going to do, or maybe not; oh well not really, and I will take pleasure in bursting your anti-Obama bubble! .
        You are terribly wrong on your assertions about Huma Abedin (by the way her husband is jewish), and you are oblivious to the realities of your republicans heroes in the previous administration, and of present.
        For one, republicanshave had a close relationship with some of our most virolent muslim enemies.
        Are you aware that during the Bush administration the following took place:
        a) Abdurahman Alamoudi was a guess at the White House meeting with Presiden Bush.
        b) During this time Sami al-Arian (he eventually was convicted of funding terrorism) met with Karl Rove at the White House, and while there presented him with a book titled “the cultural atlas of Islam as part of a 160 member delegation from the ‘american muslim council..
        c) The ‘american muslim council’ was founded by Abdurahnan Alamoudi.
        Always happy to enlighten you!,

        Sincerely,
        Truesoy

      • DaveH

        Truesoy, like a typical Progressive, says — “Nanvy in (la-la lan) Nebraska”.
        Was that necessary, Truesoy?
        And then Truesoy says — “and I will take pleasure in bursting your anti-Obama bubble!”.
        By bringing up a Bush misadventure with Muslims? How did that prove that Nancy was wrong, Truesoy? It would only prove her wrong if somehow two wrongs made a right (that is if your claim about Bush is even true).
        I suppose you’d stand up in court and defend your murdering friend by saying — “But your honor, he isn’t the only murderer in Society!”

      • http://incerely, truesoy

        DaveH;

        If what you meant by typical progressive is telling it like it is, then yes, I’m a typical progressive and proud of it.

        Sincerely,
        Truesoy

  • roger gunderson

    Does George W. Bush take the prize for fooling most of the people most of the time?

    • DaveH

      George Bush was but one of many, present President NOT excepted.

  • Willy

    Warrior: I think of Holder.

  • http://www.facebook.com/barbara.cotter.395 Barbara Cotter

    This article logically and succinctly exposes disinformation and those who use it. Would that every truth-seeker read and internalize its components. We need to be able to recognize and reject disinformation wherever we find it!

    • http://www.facebook.com/katharine.kimball Katharine Kimball

      Barbara, I agree!

  • Bill Scantlen

    Thomas Jefferson once stated that the closest thing to truth in the newspaper was the adds.And Mark Twain said,”If you don’t read the paper you are uninformed and if you do read the paper you are misinformed”.

    • Power To The People

      Right on brother!

    • DaveH

      Very good, Bill.

    • Toby

      Too true

      • http://incerely, truesoy

        Toby;

        I don’t know where you get your history ‘facts’ from, and I’m affraid to ask. However I must tell you what Thomas Jefferson really said of the press:
        “Our freedom depends on the freedom of the press, and that can not be limited without being lost”
        As you can see Jefferson’s view of the press and it’s value was contrary to your concept of the free press.

        Sincerely,
        Truesoy

  • JOHNTHEBAPTIST II

    The trouble with being a liar and a thief is both compete with each other then to be evil, for republicans and democrats, both parties know since the 1863 paris peace treaty, the 14th amendment, The Law of 1871, 1913 Federal Reserve Bank Act IRS, and then in 1933 FDR sold american citizens into slavery and servitude forever by officially removing the constitution and becoming the united states corporation, but they have lied to keep this a secret for all of our politicans are afraid now for the first time we though small in numbers are going and we will take our country back from these criminals for none of them are worth saving! remember the french revolution, no arisocrats were saved?

    • DaveH

      Revolutions, though romantically attractive, rarely work to the benefit of the people. Especially now with so many heavily Propagandized citizens, many of whom have been bought and paid for. Those who are so inclined should read this:
      http://mises.org/daily/5363/The-Next-American-Revolution-Wont-Be-Like-the-First

      The key is education. The pen is mightier than the sword.

      • Vicki

        DaveH writes:
        “Revolutions, though romantically attractive, rarely work to the benefit of the people. ”

        rarely may not be strong enough word. Our revolution was nearly unique in the world as it formed a Republic rather than the FAR FAR FAR more common Oligarchy or Oligarchy under a King.

        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N4r0VUybeXY

        In fact there were some who did want George Washington to be King. But he wisely refused.

      • DaveH

        I like how he associates Anarchy with Chaos (NOT). Typical Propaganda. People could contract with private agencies to enforce the law just as well as they contract with Government to enforce the law. Business people could create contracts with their customers that specified a particular private arbitrating agent, which both would agree to obey in case of dispute. If the arbitrator was known to be biased the customers simply wouldn’t agree to that contract and seek somebody else with whom to do business.
        Those who say such private solutions wouldn’t work, because people are basically dishonest, have some explaining to do, because those same dishonest people can also work for Government. If men were angels, we wouldn’t need Government, but by the same token, if men aren’t angels then what keeps them out of Government?
        Those who pooh pooh the idea that we can survive without the Government Gang have the cup-half-empty mentality. I believe that the vast majority of people are good people, and that we would survive and prosper with the Government greatly diminished in size.
        http://mises.org/daily/1778

      • Vicki

        Though I agree in principle that the state of without government does not have to be chaos the unfortunate reality is that history has shown that a little government is needed. To quote the Declaration of Independence

        “We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.–That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, -…..”

        Now as to the connection between anarchy and chaos, blame Webster.
        http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/anarchy

    • http://none Charlie

      John the Baptist2,, your comment is history but how many people on this site can explain in simple context what “spirit” took over the minds of these people like FDR to cause some of these historical events to take place ?
      Accomplish Acts 2:38 to make your mind psychologically bullet proof to the brainwashing effects of “popularity politics”…
      Truth , what is it ? see Psalm 119:160 for the equation for “Truth”… “Truth = the sum of God’s Words” … A mind that has accomplished Acts 2:38 properly and saturated their mind with basic Bible “Truths” can see a “Lie” about a mile and a half away,,,so what ??? Well IF you are waiting for some one to prove “Truth” to you , it may NOT happen because ,,, it’s much easier to be brainwashed by the lies of popularity politics …
      Truth has to be hunted down , captured , conquered and lived with and by, because The Bible says , “seek and you shall find” ,,,”ask and you shall receive “,,,but,, even with all this Bible knowledge one has to learn some of God’s psychological science areas such as “personality clash” , what is it ? what causes it?…
      John , how many people have you baptized this month?

    • Toby

      That is why I wanted Newt. He would havechanged government. That enen scared the Republicans

  • rhcrest

    I am very good at giving their garbage right back at these trolls. They don’t know what hits them when i respond to their crap

    • Karolyn

      Oh, I am sure that after reading what you have to say, they just start to cry and go to bed! :-)

      • DaveH

        Where’s the Love, Karolyn?

      • Karolyn

        You see I’m smiling, Dave. Nothing wrong with a little facetiousness. I didn’t call anyone any names either. :-)

  • John

    This is a great article and maybe the most concise and accurate description of Fox News that I’ve seen to date. While all the major networks are awful, primarily because they are owned buy the handful of corporations that run the country, Fox is by far the most shameful of all of them and perhaps the mosty embarrassing news orginization in modern history. The true news profession that was objective, did it’s job with pride and was therefor hated by the establishment are over. Back then they weren’t entertainment shows only concerned with ratings. Today most people don’t have the time or the technical know how to seek out and recognize real news. I love the points that were made in this article and hopefully it will help some people get closet to the truth.

    • Power To The People

      John, you must be a plant for MSNBC. The crazy loons reside their,

    • Tazio2013

      John, great response to a great article!

    • Vigilant

      John and Tazio are textbook examples of the close-minded useful idiots who wouldn’t understand the truth if they were spoon fed with it. With both of them, the government leftist programming and Pavlovian “education” have been largely successful.

    • DaveH

      Perhaps, John, instead of throwing out a slanderous ad hominem attack on Fox News you could just stick to supporting or refutting specific subjects?

    • Nancy in Nebraska

      When are people going to realize that “they” are fox AND msnbc?!? They are two sides of the same coin! If they can keep us busy arguing back and forth, we’re not paying attention to what is REALLY going on! THAT is the TRUE misinformation!!! We need to be paying attention because in the end MOST of us only want the same thing! I feel sorry for the trolls on BOTH sides! They are being USED by the very people who are planning to kill or enslave them! When the day comes that they realize it, they will be destroyed! We need to recognize that the “plot” is being pulled off by those on BOTH sides of the aisle! Until we RECOGNIZE that, we are DIVIDED and easily DEFEATED!!! STOP the bickering back and forth! Everybody is right and everybody is wrong!!!

    • Toby Green

      John,
      You are confusing the true news programs on Fox with the opinion programs. Their news programs do not have openions and give the story unbiased. Their opinion programs and designed to stimulate thought. Many watch that disagree.

    • Sunshine49

      I just heard recently that a Saudi bought into Fox over a year ago. Since then, it seems that O’Reilly and others on Fox have done nothing but ridicule anyone who tries to get the truth out about Obama not being eligible to be President.

      Hannity only tells us obvious facts about what Obama is doing, but fails to give the people information on what he is doing behind our backs with his executive orders. Right now we are under a sudo dictatorship by executive order. Just watch how fast Obama puts Martial
      Law into effect if it looks like he can’t pull off another fraud election.

      Obama is the Trojan Horse that has been picked to destroy this country’s freedom with a complicit Congress and Media. I just wonder what excuse these people give themselves for selling out the people.

      The TRUTH is that Satan, the great deceiver, is ready to take over the world through all the lies. The real TRUTH is in the Bible.

    • SJJolly

      All too few people want to get closer to the truth, as you put it. They want confirmation that their pet demons (Liberals, Socialists, union members, public employees, etc., etc.) are real. Some claim that this site is a Libertarian site. It is, certainly. With a heavy representation from the tinfoil hat brigade.

  • sj
  • TOCB

    Thanks Brandon. That is a great analogy of the Republican Party.

    • DaveH
      • DaveK

        That looks like a great book, DaveH. How come you don’t spend more time ripping the corporate power to elect than on the president and liberals elected. Doesn’t it seem that the corporations are spending most (all?) of their money electing repubs who will help lower their taxes and relax laws for big (mega) business?

        repubs don’t wan’t smaller government, they just say that to get elected. Big business ends up with the money the feds spend from welfare to warfare.

  • nc

    Mr. Smith, “Disinformation” seems to be any belief not held by the 4% of the population,”true conservatives”, who have never been leaders in making this country the number one country in the world. Have you ever wondered why what you “don’t believe in” has worked so well??

    • Power To The People

      No dishonesty from the “true left”….you are joking right? We have the spin Dr. of all spin Dr.’s in “his White House” and you take partisan swipes at the conservatives. Go back into your hole.

    • Brandon Smith

      Thanks for that display of the ‘Strawman’ disinformation tactic, NC. I never said that people who support views “I don’t believe in” are the problem. I said that people who lie and then use dishonest debate tactics to shield those lies from real scrutiny are the problem. Also, to be clear, are you saying that those who lie made this country great? If so, you are obviously very naive as to the truly dismal state our society is in today…

      • http://boblivingstonpl.wordpress.com Bob Livingston

        Dear Brandon Smith,

        You write: “Thanks for that display of the ‘Strawman’ disinformation tactic, NC.” NC is a Democrat party opposition research operative and likely a paid troll. Straw man arguments are his stock in trade.

        Best wishes,
        Bob

      • nc

        Mr. Smith, yes, I am saying that those who made this country great on occasion lied to the people! BOTH MAJOR PARTIES AND THE TRUE CONSERVATIVE CONSPIRACY HEAVY MINORITY HAVE ALL LIED!
        THE CONSTITUTION DID NOT PRODUCE A PERFECT NATION! JUST AN ATTEMPT AT A “MORE PERFECT UNION”!
        Our history tells us what has worked “best” for this nation!Not perfectly, but best! Has any other country taken their “constitution?” and done a better job in the last 150 years??
        We are 300 million plus strong with all of the problems that come with that number! That’s “big” and small 18th century minds and methods will not handle the problems!Neither will unproved conspiracies explain the “causes”!!!!!

      • Vigilant

        nc says, “We are 300 million plus strong with all of the problems that come with that number! That’s “big” and small 18th century minds and methods will not handle the problems!”

        Typical leftist blather. Those 18th century minds created a near miracle in framing the Constitution, and NOTHING detracts from the general principles of the founding. It has been the small, malicious, avaricious and atrophied “minds” of the left that have brought us to where we are today.

        Your view that the Constitution is a “living document” places you squarely in the camp with those who would shovel dirt on the grave of a once great nation brought down by your own bankrupt communist philosophy.

      • DaveH

        NC uses the typical Progressive Troll method of referring to 18th century miracle of Freedom as being outdated (primitive being the common accusation). Yet these Progressives are leading us pell mell into serfdom by the elites, the most primitive historical condition of mankind’s political state.
        Anybody who takes the time to study this report will see what Socialism really does for a country’s economy:
        http://www.freetheworld.com/2011/reports/world/EFW2011_complete.pdf

      • Deerinwater

        In the ancient Asiatic civilization preceding the rise of Athens as a great center of human culture, the masses of the people lived under despotisms and there were no channels or methods for them to use in formulating or making known their feelings and wishes as a group. In Athens, however, the Greeks who made up the citizen class were conscious of their interests as a group and were well informed on the problems and affairs of the city-state to which they belonged. Differences on religious and political matters gave rise to propaganda and counterpropaganda. The strong-minded Athenians, though lacking such tools as the newspaper, the radio, and the movies, could use other powerful engines of propaganda to mold attitudes and opinions. The Greeks had games, the theater, the assembly, the law courts, and religious festivals, and these gave opportunity for propagandizing ideas and beliefs. The Greek playwrights made use of the drama for their political, social, and moral teachings. Another effective instrument for putting forward points of view was oratory, in which the Greeks excelled. And though there were no printing presses, handwritten books were circulated in the Greek world in efforts to shape and control the opinions of men.

        read more;
        http://www.historians.org/projects/GIRoundtable/propaganda/Propaganda4.htm

        An excellent current movie that edify early propaganda, the power that it carried and well worth the time to view if for no other reason then but quality entertainment would be;

        “Anonymous” i’d say, it a “must see” for anyone that “ponders the truth”

        http://youtu.be/2PaliLAQT8k

    • Winddrinker

      nc, the first “internet troll” to post on this article!

      • DaveH

        No, the second. See my response to Leochner.

      • nc

        Winddrinker, to you and Mr. Livingston and DavidH, if you are all different people, I am paid by no one,nor am I an”operative” for any one or any party! I am an old retired man with an opinion sitting in my den! I happen to have the good fortune that my den is in the greatest country in the world and a 77 year old experience of how my country got to this place!
        YOUR “KNOWLEGE” OF WHO I TRULY AM IS AS FAULTY AS MOST OF YOUR OPINIONS!

      • DaveH

        Your 77 years have been wasted, NC.
        You’ve had plenty of opportunity to study recommended literature and know the truth about our country, past and present, yet you continually spread your unsupported Propaganda in favor of Big Government.
        In my book, that makes you a Troll, NC.

      • DaveH

        NC says — “YOUR “KNOWLEGE” OF WHO I TRULY AM IS AS FAULTY AS MOST OF YOUR OPINIONS!”.
        No NC, our conjecture about your status has nothing to do with the facts we present and the misinfomation that you present.

      • mark

        Calling people paid trolls when you have no proof of it, is another example of disinformation. In fact I found this whole article laughable as this site is loaded with self-serving disinformation, as most political blogs of the right and the left invariably are. The very things that Brandon Smith condemns, he himself has been guilty of, (in for instance his 4/3/2012 PLD article: The Socialization of America is Economically Impossible,”) as have many of the authors of this site’s articles. People believe the disinformation they want to believe and reject the arguments of others largely on the basis of ideology. They make reality fit their own ideology. This site is a perfect example of this. As are many left-leaing blogs to be sure. I don’t believe in either of them.

      • DaveH

        Ah yes, mark, another of the trolls who comes here mainly to spout fabricated facts and ad hominem attacks.

      • DaveH

        NC says — “Winddrinker, to you and Mr. Livingston and DavidH, if you are all different people”.
        Ahhh yes, another typical Progressive Disinformation Technique, accusing your accusers of the same faults that they accuse you of.
        Polly want a Cracker, NC?

    • Nancy in Nebraska

      Don’t feed the TROLLS!

      • nc

        Nancy, I had rather go to unfriendly places to spread the truth than go to a friendly site and drown in the koolaid of fellow back scratchers like you!

      • cawmun cents

        I prefer to quote Ralph Waldo Emerson…..
        “What you are thunders so loudly,that I cannot hear what you say to the contrary.”
        Cheers!
        -CC.

      • Mikey

        NC,
        Why do you waste time on this site? The people who subscribe to this site are mostly Libertarians, and you’re not going to change their perspective. In fact, you have given us someone to laugh at, as you attempt to justify your words. If you are not a “Troll” why not go to another site full of sheeple who will agree with your pointless banter!

      • DaveH

        NC,
        Since when do you state truth? All I hear from you are the same old tired Progressive talking points that we can hear anytime we want by going to the View, or Politically Incorrect (speaking of twisting words), or the multitude of Liberal talk shows.

  • Warrior

    I read this article and immediately the name axelrod enters my mind.

    • Vigilant

      Obama, Pelosi, Reid, Carney, Schumer, Durban, Waters, Boxer, Jackson, Bloomberg, Waxman, Frank, Dodd, Sharpton, Emanuel, Kerry, Wasserman-Schultz, Holder, Sunstein, Berwick, Jones, Dunn, Jarrett, Franken…..

      • James

        the first names coming to my mind; mitt romney mitch mcconnel,john boehner eric cantor paul ryan lindsay graham and especally that michelle bachman among the rest of the disinformation crowd

    • Bud Tugly

      Both parties are disgustingly skilled at spewing forth disinformation. In addition to the lst of Dems, also need to be included are the names Boehner (remember the empty book he held up claiming it contained the GOP health care plan?) Michelle Bachmann (remember her winter speech on the mall cutting to adoring summer crowds?), Eric Cantor, Sarah Palin, Rush Limbaugh, … the list goes on and on. Mr. Switcharoo Romney and Obama can also make the list.

      I am a conservative but politicians like these are on both sides are hurting the US and we need to clear them out.

      Ron Paul is one of the last honorable politicians. We need the likes of Harry Truman who turned down lucrative post presidential job offers because he believed that the office of President was not for sale… that’s an interesting concept.

      • Janice Dempsey

        Finally a comment I can agree with! Most of the comments simply prove the points made in the article.

    • David Deal

      Simple visits to Snopes, Politifact, Factcheck are necessary for the diligent and honest person. It is obvious when doing this that the right lies to a FAR greater degree. One example is on the Snopes website where they had to create a separate page for the multitutde of fictitious chain emails that have been spread about Obama for years. It summed things up saying that if it was on this list it was mostly or completely false. Yet those on the right, either out of ignorance or malicious intent continue to recirculate the garbage.Snopes even has a flashing scroll message that says,”There is NO good reason to forward chain emails, JUST DON’T DO IT!”Fox News is a huge purveyor of disinformation and an embarrassment. Michelle Bachmann & Sarah Palin show utter ignorance every time they speak and recreate history yet many mindless rightwingers swallow their crap. It’s mind boggling! I URGE people to honestly research things before believing or sharing them and being part of the problem. The problem those on the right go to right wing websites for their research instead of going to independent outlets. This is like asking the Fox to guard the henhouse.

      • MAP

        David says, “I URGE people to honestly research things before believing or sharing them and being part of the problem.” You sound like you are part of the problem. You listen to the liberal media propaganda and swallow every word of it as though it were fact. But I think you are just like all the rest of the liberals: a total liar. Your purpose here and your advice describes you as a mere troll.

      • http://None Jerry

        Ah, perhaps you, sir, are one of the aforementioned trolls. You immediately made an attack on others simply because they disagreed with your position. Interesting.

      • MAP

        Jerry, another liberal, lying troll. This is a conservative site. Therefore, when one visits here he is either: 1)conservative 2)wanting to learn 3)a lefitst, lying troll, doing exactly what the article above states. You prove yourself to be a 3.

      • Karolyn

        MAP – You forgot liberals visiting this site because they just want to voice an opinion and have a discussion. For me, this site has been a learning experience, as well as a place where I can SOMETIMES get into a civil discussion, and, thus, learn more. It is also a good way to habe a good old-fashioned argument without exposing oneself to physical judgment. What is the sense in preaching to the choir anyway? All it seems to amount to is constant bitch sessions. When I first started here, I remember one of my first posts being how this is so much like old men hanging around the old stove at the general store or in the local bar solving all the ills of the world with their bitch sessions.

      • MAP

        Karolyn, since I’ve been visiting this site I haven’t noticed you to learn one single thing. You remain a delusional leftist. The liberals infecting this site are only here for exactly what the article says – to disrupt, refute, and annoy.

      • Deerinwater

        Map say;
        Jerry, another liberal, lying troll. This is a conservative site. Therefore, when one visits here he is either: 1)conservative 2)wanting to learn 3)a lefitst, lying troll, doing exactly what the article above states. You prove yourself to be a 3.

        I say; This is a Personal Liberty Site and Map is attempting to redefine the term “Conservative” to his personal liking. Both Conservatism and Socialism are Huge words and imply many things. While Maps would tell us they are narrow words like black and white.

        People come here by Mr. Livingston’s gracious invitation and love for freedom and personal liberty’s that are framed into our Constitution. The Constitution does not project political party affiliations or any one religious belief over another. This something that Map is attempting to do.

      • Deerinwater

        Maps say; ” The liberals infecting this site are only here for exactly what the article says – to disrupt, refute, and annoy.”

        I say; “Some maybe, sure!” While I’m not a liberal, I come here because I enjoy coming and learning and helping others do the same thing!

        Like you for instance Map, if you would stop whining about opposition and “lean into the fight” with your mind, over time you could offer a better, stronger argument to support your position.

        For example; Explain to us, who is your example of solid Conservative that holds political office today? Tell us why you find this person deserving such a title and your admiration. Let’s frame the discussing and foregoing all the whining and name calling.

        It’s not clear to me what you think a Conservative is! And too, ~ conservative with “what”! about “what”? How is this conservatism going to afford citizens freedoms and personal liberty? Just stating “Features” is not enough! To sell anything you much connect “features” with the “benefits” offered by features. ~ It’s “See Thu widows” and “Rotating Tires” ~ Conservative WHAT?

        If being your kind of conservative or being a “W” kind of conservative, or Mich McConnell kind of conservative, or a Mitt Romney conservative is what you are looking for, I’ll thinking I might want to pass ~ today.

        If you want to label yourself Map, fine! But give this same opportunity to other people.

        Failing to conform to your line of thinking, feel free to label me as disagreeable.

  • Jeremy Leochner

    Okay give me a second. Not sure of this is real or not. Yes it is real. I completely agree with an article here on the livingston page. For the first time I have an article that I cannot find disagreement with. Kudos Mr. Smith. I tip my hat to you.

    • DaveH

      Speaking of paid trolls.
      For those new readers, follow the thread to Bob Livingston’s comments:
      http://personalliberty.com/2011/05/16/what-now/#comment-341930

      • Mikey

        Well done, Dave! You nailed one!

      • Karolyn

        Sorry, Dave, still don’t buy it. Didn’t then; don’t now. I find it hard to believe that one person can post in such totally different ways, using different grammar and word useage, from one person being belligerant and somewhat abusive to another having perfect manners and gramma and being the same prson. They even have different viewpoints. Taken from your link is Mick, a woman who claimed to be a conservative. How did she get in that mix? Call ne naive (again), but I don’t buy it. I gotta say one thing; you must have copious filed and be a fanatical searcher to find the threads you find.

      • Oneguess

        What’s the matter, Karolyn? Truth hurts?

      • Karolyn

        No, Oneguess, I just have to say something when I see people being misconstrued..(in my opinion)

      • Jeremy Leochner

        Dave I am not sure but I believe you are trying to say something about me again. Okay if we are going to play this game. Dave what proof do you have that when I come on this site I use more than one name. What actual proof do you have. Please present me the evidence and then we can discuss. Because simply comparing my statements to other names or just listening to Mr. Livingston is not evidence.

      • DaveH

        I wouldn’t expect you to, Karolyn.
        But just for giggles, explain to us how they all had the same IP address?

      • DaveH

        Karolyn says — “I gotta say one thing; you must have copious filed and be a fanatical searcher to find the threads you find”.
        That’s the beauty of it, Karolyn. With a little effort, I can expose Liberals for the liars that they are. This isn’t like the public world where the Liberals can fabricate whatever facts they want and be relatively assured of not being exposed.

      • boyscout

        I am certain that these “trolls” are working both sides of the fence or, actually, as different side of the same coin. In the up coming election, if I were a Liberal and Democrat, I would vote Libertarian. If I were a “rightist” and a Republican, I would vote Libertarian. I am simply tired of all the propaganda spewed from the edge (fringes) of that worn out thin dime. I am tired of the corruption engendered by “both” parties, and I’m just not buying any more crap from the entrenched political establishment.

      • Vicki

        DaveH says:
        “But just for giggles, explain to us how they all had the same IP address?”

        Cause they were all behind the same NAT firewall. :) They could be just a group of 4?8?16?32? friends that pooled their resources together and bought an internet connection but much more likely that they work in the same office thus supporting the paid troll theory.

      • Vicki

        Karolyn says to DaveH:
        “I gotta say one thing; you must have copious filed and be a fanatical searcher to find the threads you find”.

        Or he just has to use a search engine. It’s not that difficult and most of the lies of liberals have already been exposed many times over thus there will be millions of hits to choose from.

    • Nancy in Nebraska

      TROLL!!!

      • Jeremy Leochner

        How am I a troll Nancy?

      • DaveH

        Why else would a guy operating under different IDs be commenting on this site?

      • Jeremy Leochner

        But I am not operating under different IDS Dave. Where is your proof of that. Mr. Livingston says I have the same IP Address as others. How would Mr. Livingston find something like that out. Maybe there are people in my area who also go on Livingston’s page. All I know is I am not operating under multiple IDS and you have no proof that I am.

      • Nancy in Nebraska

        Might as well give it up! Start over with a new name!

      • Jeremy Leochner

        Give what up Nancy? Telling my honest beliefs using my own name. What I say I believe is what I believe. I am not going to change just because people disagree with me. All I can say is the truth. I am being honest about who I am whether people believe me or not. The truth is the truth. When I come on to the Bob Livingston page I use my real name and my real name only. I say this to you Nancy and to Dave I am as honest about who I am as you. Just as you only come on here with one name I only come on here as one name. For me its my real name. I am sorry if that seems so crazy.

      • Deerinwater

        Having two Id’s does not make you a Troll. Trolling activity makes you a Troll. I have an alter-ego but you rarely hear from Longshanks , he’s mean, ugly and a foul sort of person, you wouldn’t like him. There is no heavy lifting that requires Longshanks here. I keep him chained in the basement.

        There is a minimum of two sides to every story These story of two opposing forces locked in constant battle is as old as man himself while winning has became more important then the truth long ago.

      • DaveH

        How would Mr. Livingston know that? Because it’s his website. How do you think the webpage gets displayed on your computer? Because you have a unique IP address. Otherwise the information displayed on your computer by your web browser wouldn’t know where to go.
        Give it up, Flashman, Jeremy, or whoever you really are.

      • Jeremy Leochner

        Very well. I will grant you that Dave. My point is maybe there are people in my area who also go on to bob livingston page. Excluding that maybe I have been hacked and someone is using my IP address. Either way I am not using multiple names. I am sorry but that is the honest truth. Mr. Livingston is wrong. I do not know how but he is. When I come on I use only one name. That is the truth whether you like it or not.

      • kid

        To the TROLLS and the good people, all I have to say, LAND OF THE FREE, BECAUSE OF THE BRAVE!! From the Revolutionary War to the Middle East, our brave soldiers and airmen have died, been maimed, and missing. All while the elite sits in their offices planning more ways to control WE THE PEOPLE. ALL of those brave people died for NOTHING!!!! WHY, because Americans are cowards and afraid to take their country back. the Wash DC folks spend our money like water flows from a bucket and our boys and girls die fighting a useless ignorant war. THE OBAMANATION OF DESOLATION MUST GO IN NOVEMBER!!! BOTTOM LINE. Unite America!!!! the Feds have divided us long enough. Unite the People of our country with one mind and we can turn this country around. Trolls, you are part of the problem not the solution!!! You can be assimilated if you want but I will never bow to UN Agenda 21, nor the UN Small Arms treaty as long as we have draw breath, we will resist any law but the U.S. Constitution and the Bill of Rights. God for we have failed you and have mercy on us that we may survive the battles coming. GOD GIVE US STRENGTH AND WISDOM TO FIGHT THE GOOD FIGHT!!! FOR IT DRAWS NEAR FOR TRUE PATRIOTS NOT FOR THE SQUEAMISH OR COWARD, BUT FOR THE BRAVE AND DETERMINED TO WIN BACK OUR COUNTRY!!!!

  • SiliconDoc

    I’d like to add the multiple posting long winded spammer as a form of a troll, and the thread high jacker – one who goes off the subject and highjacks the thread into a long argument on some other related or non related topic.

    • Shane

      One must be very careful to label someone too quickly, and without sufficent conversation. I have been accused of being a liberal, communist, progressive and other related labels. But with nary an example of what was said that would place someone into such a group. It was and is amusing, when there is no one in my group of friends, business associates, etc. that would even come close to placing me in such a category. (With the exception that I favor the decriminalization of marijuana with a heavy tax imposed upon it’s sale. – Wow I favor drugs and higher Taxes. – LOL, I must be a liberal)

      But I understand the “why.” Why some will falsely accuse others with only a thread in which to balance upon, if that. The lack of an appropriate reply, rigit orthodoxy, protection of turf, egotism, etc.

      I enjoy a good discussion, much better than an argument. But an argument is better than running away with one’s tail between the legs. It’s also a well known fact that no one is perfect, including this writer. A venting of the various points helps expose possible new truths to others as oneself.

      But I do agree that there appears to be what many call “trolls” on this site and others. That some of those “trolls” would be paid by liberal organizations and by this adminstration is also likely, not just possible.

      • DaveH

        Shane says — “I favor the decriminalization of marijuana with a heavy tax imposed upon it’s sale”.
        Why the “heavy tax”? Why should Government profit from its legalization?

      • Shane

        DaveH says:

        August 7, 2012 at 11:48 am

        Shane says — “I favor the decriminalization of marijuana with a heavy tax imposed upon it’s sale”.
        Why the “heavy tax”? Why should Government profit from its legalization?

        ****************************************************************************************************

        Well DaveH, the simple answer for someone like you, would be, because I’m a little yellow commie, progressive, Obama loving liberal.

        But for the other readers, it’s a little long. So I’ll keep it moderately short.

        First I won’t go into the full reasons for the legalization of mary jane. Only the tax reasons that I stated, and your questioning of my “big tax” beliefs. *I will have my friends and family read this topic and the replies, including mine. They will have a hoot. Their old man and friend is a commie, a 99%’er, and supports the confiscation and appropriation of more money from the family business and my wife’s professional job. I just get a big smile just thinking what they will say when they hear that label. Gee, it is funny. Dad’s an undercover leftist.

        But to get back to the tax issue.

        There will be issues both known and unknown that will come to be recognized after funky weed is legalized. Added medical cost to the user, for a myriad of reasons. One of which is expanded drug use due to marijuana being a gate way drug for some. Did not say all. So taxing the weed will help pay for the health cost that will occur (again, don’t know how much, neither do you) as a result of its use. Second, there will be accidents, both vehicle and others, due to its use. A victim rights fund can be set up for reimbursing the victims, both bodily and property, along with loss of income. Third , educational resources, as some will abuse the legal product that does produce momentary loss of focus. Remember I used “some.” So the legal purchased and tax of the product, will ensure educational means to inform the consumer and others of the FULL cost of its use, both monetary and mental. Fourth, enforcement cost. I pay my taxes. Which also includes my motor vehicle, boat and other recreational toys. Along with property taxes, business taxes, etc. Tax on my beer, my wife’s wine, etc. The approved and licensed seller of this now proposed legal product, will need various means of enforcement to ensure the tax “stamp” is paid on each pack or carton of marijuana. Fifth, border enforcement to ensure that our American Farmer is duly protected from outside and alien influences, that would smuggle cheaper, un- regulated, and most importantly…..un-taxed product into our consumer market. To not protect our legalized domestic marijuana farmers and distributors, would be like allowing other food products to reach market with no tax, while taxing the hell out of our domestic orange, apple, peach, corn, lettuce, etc farmers.

        Last, most every business if they make a product, pays taxes in one “form” or “another.” We all if legal, pay fees, such as licensing fees, etc. to do business. We can agrument the merits of these taxes, but that WOULD be a distraction to what is the subject that you DaveH presented to me. So don’t cloud the water with how unfair taxes are. I’ll give you that. They are unfair, and too many pay none, while others pay more than their share. A national sales tax and abolishing of the present income tax mechanism might be a way to correct the corrupt system we now have.

        But that again is not the point of this subject.

        P.S. I’m sure there are other reasons that I have left off, to demand that marijuana producers and sellers pay a tax. Maybe we could discuss that with others at a later date.

      • DaveH

        Shane says — “Well DaveH, the simple answer for someone like you, would be, because I’m a little yellow commie, progressive, Obama loving liberal”.
        Oh, and you base that statement on what, Shane? Seems to me you’re the one doing all the hyperbolizing in this and other comments.
        Shane says — “One of which is expanded drug use due to marijuana being a gate way drug for some. Did not say all. So taxing the weed will help pay for the health cost that will occur (again, don’t know how much, neither do you) as a result of its use.”
        You base the “expanded drug use due to marijuana being a gate way drug” on what, Shane? References please. Here’s mine:
        http://www.cato.org/publications/commentary/pot-shots-prop-19-fall-flat
        And why do we need taxes to pay for the health cost, Shane? Shouldn’t people be responsible for their own health care costs, or do you believe that other people should shoulder the burden for their mistakes?

      • DaveH

        Shane says — “A victim rights fund can be set up for reimbursing the victims, both bodily and property, along with loss of income”.
        What? Again you want other people to pay for the actions of the perps? So you want to socialize the actions of a few?
        Shane says — “The approved and licensed seller of this now proposed legal product, will need various means of enforcement to ensure the tax “stamp” is paid on each pack or carton of marijuana. Fifth, border enforcement to ensure that our American Farmer is duly protected from outside and alien influences, that would smuggle cheaper, un- regulated, and most importantly…..un-taxed product into our consumer market. To not protect our legalized domestic marijuana farmers and distributors, would be like allowing other food products to reach market with no tax, while taxing the hell out of our domestic orange, apple, peach, corn, lettuce, etc farmers”.

        So there you have it, Folks. The guy who claims he doesn’t want to be labeled has laid out just about every rational for Big Government that a Progressive can lay out.
        Anybody who knows anything about Progressives, Shane, can figure out that you’re one of them.
        The Progressive Era (and what motivates them):
        http://mises.org/daily/1259

      • Shane

        DaveH says:

        August 7, 2012 at 2:51 pm

        Shane says — “A victim rights fund can be set up for reimbursing the victims, both bodily and property, along with loss of income”.
        What? Again you want other people to pay for the actions of the perps? So you want to socialize the actions of a few?
        Shane says — “The approved and licensed seller of this now proposed legal product, will need various means of enforcement to ensure the tax “stamp” is paid on each pack or carton of marijuana. Fifth, border enforcement to ensure that our American Farmer is duly protected from outside and alien influences, that would smuggle cheaper, un- regulated, and most importantly…..un-taxed product into our consumer market. To not protect our legalized domestic marijuana farmers and distributors, would be like allowing other food products to reach market with no tax, while taxing the hell out of our domestic orange, apple, peach, corn, lettuce, etc farmers”.

        So there you have it, Folks. The guy who claims he doesn’t want to be labeled has laid out just about every rational for Big Government that a Progressive can lay out.
        Anybody who knows anything about Progressives, Shane, can figure out that you’re one of them.

        The Progressive Era (and what motivates them):
        http://mises.org/daily/1259

        ****************************************************************************************************
        So DaveH, can you name the taxes that you approve of that will pay for our defense budget, and other necessary federal budget items?

        No taxes, means no revenue. Which mean no defense department, no nasa, and some of the other areas where federalism comes into play. I guess I have to give my personal disclaimer here. “Our Federal Government is way to big, and in too much of our life. We need to disband the Department of Education, EPA and other agencies.” Do I need to go further with names, DaveH? How many word characters is enough.

        I will cite one area that I’m somewhat familar with. It would appear that you would leave our agricultural farming community to fend on it’s own. I am not talking about farm subsidies, such as corn ethanol, etc., which I’m against. But the expensive research to protect from the many new diseases and pest that plague our farming community. We already get a considerable amount of fruits and vegetables from foreign sources that directly complete and impact our american farmers.

        But the main question DaveH, is what taxes other than a federal sales tax that is not law, do you approve?

      • TIME

        Dear Shane,

        Your post is well layed out, BUT – the point is that “PRE the United States Inc. Corporation” thats pre 1871 BTW – of what is not a Government, but a De facto format of Criminals who took the Power of the People by the People for the People, thus these criminals flipped it 180* to make {themselves all powerful over the people.}
        Tax’s were a flat – Tax – paid by “all” as in no one was off the hook paying tax’s.

        Be that as it may, we now are all “Corporations” under “UCC” law as such UCC laws fall under “Admirality Maritime” Laws.
        But again to convolute this absurdness even more the “”CITY STATE”" of the “District of Columbia” also follows these laws but also “Lex Fori” as well – aka {the Law of the Roman Empire.}

        Thus we no longer pay a “flat – TAX” as we have countless gangs of thugs who under the “ORIGINAL CONSTITUTION” – are all ILLEGAL
        “SUB Contractors” such as; IRS, FBI, CIA, NSA, ATF, DEA, DOE, DOI, and the list just keeps on going and going and going.
        So in order for these CRIMINAL’s within the De Facto platform to exist they require a much larger amounts of MONEY from the “People who do work” to pay for not only the Criminal sub contractors, but to also pay for the Criminal Politicians as in all of them and all their staffs etc..
        Thats why we pay the tax’s we pay now, and for no other reason.

        So – the point being the following, if Pot were legal as it were PRE 1930′s there were no TAX’s on it back then and there should not be any for any reason based on a PRE 1871 Tax format.

        And yes, I am sure it was sold even back then. Perhaps not in the range of prices we see today, but non the less there were buyers who indeed paid for it – just like MOONshine.

        Be that as it may – let me say this again as I have said this before, there are “no harmful side effects” from pot thats {100% pure Science not speculation nor opinion.}
        {{We as humans produce naturaly Cabanioids.}}
        As Cabanoids are the “active chemical agent” in pot there is no way any argument against it can be made that will hold water in a REAL Court of Common Law.
        Worthless rhetoric from the uninformed sheep who are clueless or Propaganda – has no probative value in a REAL COURT of Common Law.

        Also if someone gets into say – a car crash its that persons “RESPONSIBILITY” to make what ever compensation need be made to the other person / persons etc..

        “Not the Collective” When we start down the road of the “Collective” we all loose.
        No Government should tell you or anyone what you can consume in any way shape or form.

        Peace and Love

      • DaveH

        As usual, Shane and his Progressive fellows want the Irresponsible people to pay for the Responsible people. So when we do that, what are the incentives to behave? None.
        When all the marijuana users are responsible for the actions of the negligent ones, why should the responsible ones behave? And the misbehavers certainly aren’t going to try harder to behave when somebody else must share their bills.
        That’s why Progressivism always fails when they run out of other peoples’ money.

      • DaveH

        Rather than respond to the points in my comments about marijuana taxes, Shane changes the subject with — “So DaveH, can you name the taxes that you approve of that will pay for our defense budget, and other necessary federal budget items?”.
        Isn’t that one of the Alinsky tactics? Oh yeah, #2 — “Go off on tangents”.

      • Shane

        DaveH says:

        August 7, 2012 at 4:16 pm

        Rather than respond to the points in my comments about marijuana taxes, Shane changes the subject with — “So DaveH, can you name the taxes that you approve of that will pay for our defense budget, and other necessary federal budget items?”.
        Isn’t that one of the Alinsky tactics? Oh yeah, #2 — “Go off on tangents”.

        *****************************************************************************************************
        Gee, DaveH, you’re more than a little paranoid. But Paranoid was a cool album in the 60′s. Liked the cover, thoe a little dated for our times now.

        But as to your extreme suspiciousness, and lack of serenity towards others you disagree with. I will still play along with you. But you are very callous.

        I merely replied to your comment on taxes, as you called me a big government type because I wished to fund those issues that I raises that would be affected by legalizing marijuana. I took it from your comment that you dislike all taxes. I realize that no one really wants money taken by the federal, state, or local governments for even those items we agree needs to be funded by an enity of government. But some realize, including myself, that some taxes are needed. I merely asked that you provide some of those good areas that need federal, state and local funding. Be it a direct tax, fee, or whatever. If it taken, its a tax.

        So what is it DaveH.

        Which areas need funded, and how do we get those fund. But since the mere mention by me of a Marijuana tax makes me a Big Government type, I guess we can become buddies when you admit that some taxes are necessary.

        Talk with you later buddy. But I don’t hang out here much. I really do have other more important things to do. But my business, has been slow the last week. So I’ve humored myself here, and am trying to make new friends. Want to be mine, DaveH. Pretty please.

      • boyscout

        Decriminalize MJ and I am sure that they will tax it – they can – that’s what they do. The real savings to our society will come in the form of relief to our over worked criminal justice system; cops courts and prisons will be liberated from an inane burden and forced to set about more reasonable tasks. However, I would not be surprised to see “victory gardens” spring up and thereby stymie the tax offensive. Pun intended.

      • DaveH

        Oh of course, you have a business. Why is it that most Progressive commenters on here who have stated their occupation say they have their own business? Must be one of the talking points given to them by their handlers.
        Another question, why don’t you Progressives wear your label proud? You act like helping the unfortunate (with other peoples’ money) is a noble endeavor, so I would think you’d be proud to admit it. Yet, there’s only been one Progressive commenter (that I know of) who has admitted that he is Progressive (Eric the Red).
        I am proud to admit that I’m a Libertarian. Why aren’t you proud to admit you’re a Progressive, Shane?

      • SJJolly

        There certainly are call trolls on this site and others. A number of people, aparently posting under several names (the arguments and styles are too similar), that post so much and so often that they are either fanatics on the subjects or geting paid to post. However, the ratio of conservative to liberal postings is very heavily on the conservative side — the Koch brothers, et al, are willing to spend big money to reshape America to their liking.,

      • http://www.facebook.com/Alexander.Stuart2 Ryan A Stuart

        “I’d like to add the multiple posting long winded spammer as a form of a troll, and the thread high jacker – one who goes off the subject and highjacks the thread into a long argument on some other related or non related topic.” -SiliconDoc

        Shane, that was an amazingly good, and obvious, example of what SiliconDoc was talking about. That is, assuming you (Shane) and SiliconDoc are not, in fact, the same person. For the sake of humanity, I hope this was Shane logging in on a different account to reply to you. If it wasn’t, my confidence in humanity just took a significant hit, again.

    • NC

      Speaking of hijacking, we went from disinformation to weed. Interesting topic but hijacking none thelss. Of course, a lot of people responded so it is definitely a hot topic.

      • TIME

        Dear NC,

        No – in fact
        “Pot is at the center of a massive DIS-Information scam.”

        Oddly this was also started by not only a “Progressive loon” but also he was a “Zionest” too. That would have been old special Anslinger himself.

        So you see that single hand is being worked by the same people over and over again….

        If the American people ever open their eyes to how they have been used and abused – I fear all hell will break loose and every tree will be filled with strange fruit, every gutter filled with the same.
        {Yet the real root of the problem will go unscathed.}

        Peace and Love

    • Sue

      I agree with most of the article. You have singled out a small elite are controlling all propaganda. To fix a problem one must identify who the “elite” are or we continue to make the same mistakes. Please identify who “they” are. You’ve come this far.

    • Steve L.

      when it comes to disinformation the people who write the articles, I guess that’s what their called, at this website are pros. Every tactic described above is used on this site every day.

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