I take it that you have so valid information to refute his assertions, Jopa?
Or is adolescent name-calling and ridicule all you have to offer?

jopa’s source of “valid information” comes from Jerry Springer, TMZ and the National Enquirer.

I’ve actually read most of the comments. Aside from the name calling i don’t see anyone suggesting that Holmes is innocent. I do see some questioning whether he was alone, how he was funded, how it happened conveniently to support gun control just as UN Small Arms Treaty came up, how he had no history or motive, how he was saying he was the Joker, told police about his apartment being wired to explode, can’t remember what happened and looks drugged and confused. Where are the video tapes of the exits and parking lots? How did the police show so quickly yet were seen waiting outside while shots still fired inside. Why were two gas masks found so far from each other? Who were the two with black backpacks who ran off? What about the ambulances and lack of scene control with cars driving away? What about his father, Robert Holmes, involvement in the largest bank fraud investigation in history getting ZERO mention. It just ain’t that simple.

Mark says sarcastically — “You guys would all operate great in a court of law”.
And yet makes a most ridiculous unfounded indictment of the commenters.
A typical hypocritical Liberal.

Check the photos in the link provided by Phideaus at the beginning of this discussion. The person who showed up in court is NOT the person they claimed they were looking for. Two rather obvious differences are the nose and the eyebrows. There are others as well.

Eddie says — “Then you must be fully aware of the need for better mental health care in our country”.
Yes Eddie. I become more aware of that every time I read your comments.

Thank Ronald Raygun. At least in the state of California.

….and Dave H once again buries the issue deep into cyberspace where no one dare talk about it. Maybe Dave is hiding HIS mental illness?

So, you’re admitting that you’re mentally ill, Eddie?

Speaking of circular and Dave still doesn’t get it!

Alex says:

July 30, 2012 at 11:25 am

Thank Ronald Raygun. At least in the state of California.

*****************************************************************************************

Actually Alex, you can thank mental health experts, that changed the status of what mental illness was, such as schizophrenia. Along with the meaning of gender. The time period that most experts in the field come up with as the start of these changes was during the mid-1960′s. This was not a political call by the politicians. But was mainly supported by liberals that agree to abrupt change to what had been previously been codified in mental health positions and procedures. Those mental health changes that also included the AMA, then were eventually merged into state and federal laws.

But Alex, you can blame R.R. for a mass increase in diabetes in the U.S., due to his pushing of jelly bean consumption on the poor, the uninformed and gullible.

For DaveH to call someone else pathetic…. Pot meet kettle

I was using Mark’s word, Dave67. If you weren’t “pathetic”, you’d have noticed that.

Eddie’s typical circular logic.

Nah jeffh, the post never came up, as if it was under moderation, it was a link I posted. When I hit submit, (on my screen anyway) the post completely disappeared all three times,__Had the post come back with it being under moderation, I never would have said anything about it

angel, I’ve had that happen also. I did send an email to PLD to address it and my comment was posted later. I’ve also done the 3 times only to have all 3 show up later too.

eletter@news.personalliberty.com

Thanks Jeff, I noticed about an hour ago, two of the links showed up… soooo,__ I just thought the article presented a different side of Bobs article, and was important_-take care

angel, you too, Always enjoy your presence here fellow patriot.

Really interesting conspiracy theory. So where is the tape from the security camera on the corner of the building?

Vicki, If there was a tape, I’d wager a guess, it’s been destroyed by now!

An interesting story. Is there any evidence to support it?

Jeffh, I was looking earlier, haven’t found anything as of yet

angelwannabe, you’ve got me confused with that childish liberal troll “jeff”.

To a Nazi, everyone looks like a liberal. I understand that. But troll? Is that the best insult your “superior” brain can come up with. You’re even a failure as a Nazi!

No Jeff, I said childish liberal troll..my mistake. What I meant, and your childish and immature comments support this, is that you’re an “immature childish liberal troll”. It doesn’t require “superior” knowledge to see that, just average maturity.

Heart!

I love how “maturity” and “childishness” gets selectively called out here depending on which side you’re on. It’s kind of quaint in an end-of-the-gilded-age kind of way.

The reference was to the “superiority” of the master race according to your ideology, not to superior knowledge. Like most Nazis, you appear to be an ignoramus. “Childish, liberal troll.” Superb analysis. Professor of philosophy at Fresno State perhaps?

” “superiority” of the master race according to your ideology”? The only resonse I can give you is that I’m ROFLMAO!
Superiority of the master race according to my ideology???

If only pigs could fly! LMAO!

It’s nice that you NOW adorn your posts with American flags. Did you run out of swastikas and pictures of your Fuhrer or did you have a sudden conversion? When someone wears a swastika tattoo, I don’t generally have a lot to say to him. Likewise on a blog, even if it’s temporary.

Jeff… Although the list of God’s and humanity’s enmities very much includes Nazis, even near the very top, you express a healthy approach to them, ignore them with a watchful eye, wherever they crawl…

I am not a member of the Democratic Party.

No, no – you HAVE to be a Democrat because only Democrats disagree with them. Don’t screw up their paradigm. It makes their head hurt.

Some of you are unthinking slaves to the NRA when the Founding Fathers had no intentions of allowing massacures in public places such as schools and theaters. The Second Amendment (a good law) is being abused again by extremists and only encourages bad behavior. I wish those who support the ownership of weapons would take the irresponsible owners and irresponsible dealers more serious. How can you attack bad behavior of government when you can’t even police yourselves and yes the NRA covers for you every time.

eddie47d would advocate throwing the baby out with the bath water!

Yes the Bush Administration made that word tyrannical quite clear.

Your problem, Tex, is that in order for you to be on equal footing with the “tyrannical government” you would need F-16s, nuclear missiles, and flame-throwers, which, though apparently covered by the Second Amendment, is just not going to happen.

It’s more than sad that the USA who has thousands of nuclear weapons accuse Iran of having them when they don’t even have any. Even Israel has Nukes (about 300) but Iran has no right to defend itself from foreign aggression. No wonder we are so confused about weapons and continually spread false fears.

Alex, “though apparently covered by the Second Amendment, is just not going to happen.”

And there you have it folks… they openly admit it, and know it, but don’t care.

Eddie says, “It’s more than sad that the USA who has thousands of nuclear weapons accuse Iran of having them when they don’t even have any. Even Israel has Nukes (about 300) but Iran has no right to defend itself from foreign aggression. No wonder we are so confused about weapons and continually spread false fears.”

I actually agree with this comment. Although for you, its shooting yourself in the foot again with an indirect admission that your fears driving you to support gun control measures because of the Colorado incident are false.

Patriot ill—Back to school for you! Reading Comprehension! I did NOT ask “who wrote the Second Amendment”! Please reread that passage. Thanks!

Also, “Patriot” is not a very good thing to label yourself. Patriotism is a virus which leads to serious mental illness. When the same SS officers Reagan claimed to have been “victims {like the} victims in the…camps”, were stabbing babies in front of their mothers, they were being patriotic!

Patriot
There is a cure for almost anything now, but there’s no cure for ignorance such as displayed by Alex……

oxygen deprevation is not that bad for dems

You’re telling Patriot — “back to school” — Alex? After making this ridiculous statement earlier? — “You are as frightened as the slave owning Floundering Fathers, bent on genocide, theft, ethnic cleansing, and forced labor to “build a nation”, who came up with the ridiculous Second Amendment in the first place”.
And there we have it, Folks, the logic of a Liberal.

DaveH—Seriously?

Explain how theft, genocide, ethnic cleansing, and forced labor were NOT used to “build” this nation. You may think that those things are alright, or otherwise excuse them retroactively, but to deny their historical reality is to live in a state of delusion (and I have read enough of your posts to make that quite likely).

That thing that Tom Jefferson was yacking about between slave auctions, that Man Infest Destiny thing, is a cover-all term for exactly what I spelled out.

The Germans had a word for it, too: Lebensraum.

There have always been immoral people, Alex, especially in Leadership. Nothing has changed. But apparently you still advocate slavery, because the Progressives (of which you are no doubt one) think nothing of helping themselves to other peoples’ money earned from voluntary transactions with their fellow citizens. And money is time and labor.

And there’s little doubt in my mind, Alex, given your Progressive rationalization for helping yourself to other peoples’ money, that you would have been a slaveholder if you had lived in those days.

More people after your money, Dave? Who are you anyway, a Rockefeller?

This issue is more about mass killings by civilians against other civilians and those who lived in the 13 colonies would hardly approve our our new found behavior or the abuse of the Second Amendment.

The mass killings had nothing to do with the 2nd Amendment, Eddie. They are simply the actions of deranged people who would find a way to do their deranged deeds with or without gun laws. But their deeds are much easier to initiate knowing that foolish people have disarmed most of their law-abiding victims.

I didn’t know they had so many deranged persons back in those days Dave H. I won’t be looking that up because it could be true.

“I didn’t know they had so many deranged persons back in those days Dave H.”

Well eddie since you consider all gun owners to be “deranged” I guess there were lots of “deranged” people back then.

Never said that but since you are being defensive maybe you are one of them.

and— a 4 legged furry animal with anger management issues if approached unarmed could cause death or disfigurement

Wow, TML….it’s never to late to get a GED. Check it out.

I think that anyone who doesn’t like the country our forefathers gave us should LEAVE! You have NO right to take it away from the rest of us!!! Go find a country that fits your vision! There are plenty of them!!! This is the “Land of the free and the home of the brave”!!! The rest of us need to be willing to protect it with our lives! The enemy has invaded!!! Get ready!!!

And there are so many countries out there that they could choose from. Most of them matching what they claim to want here.

Makes you wonder why they stay. Oh probably cause here they are hoping to be among the elite. What was it Stalin or Lenin said about “useful…”

I hear an echo I didn’t read all the way to the end of the thread or I would not have posted what is obvious since daveh already had.

Correct, Flashy….

When you make it harder for law abiding citizens to purchase guns, it does nothing to keep guns out of criminals hands. Criminals will always find a way to arm themselves. It is people like yourself that makes this happen…..

Flashy…I’ve got new for you! Criminals are crimials because they break the LAW! Do you really think criminals will not get weapons? Locks and Laws were made for people who respect Locks and Laws. We have laws on the books now and we still have all this criminal activity. And our government even furnished some weapons to Mexico to use against our own border control guys and gals. So, why would you not suspect that our government would use someone to commit this type of incident to further their agenda?

Uh huh..sure.

let’s see…you want it easy to buy a gun because you need guns to protect yourself because the laws are so lax even criminals can have guns.

if gun ownership prevented voting, there wouldnt be a POTheadUS

Betty, you waste your logic on Flashman, the Big Government shill. He is here merely to interfere with the comments of Freedom Loving Americans.
Only his fellow Flash dunces could believe that gun laws are going to keep guns out of the hands of criminals. In fact the biggest Criminals in the land, those who assume the right to help themselves to the property of others, are part of Flashman’s gang and they are heavily armed.

Flashman, check the statistics on the increase in crime in Australia when they made it nearly impossible for the average citizen to purchase a gun for protection. Then come back and tell all of us how that worked out for the criminals!

Also, check out Kennesaw, GA and see hoe much crime dropped in that town when they enacted requirements that every home should have a weapon to defend themselves. Report back how that worked out.

Flashy says, “Support policies which make it easier for criminals to buy guns and commit crimes…and make it harder to vote. I’d call that anti American, wouldn’t you?.”

The error in your thinking comes from the idea that criminals actually obey laws, and follow it up with the strawman about voting. It’s your self-refuting policies of gun control that can only be seen as anti-American.

As for voting… providing proof of who you are, doesn’t make it harder to vote. You’re comparing apples to oranges.

Flashy says, “let’s see…you want it easy to buy a gun because you need guns to protect yourself because the laws are so lax even criminals can have guns.”

The idea that eludes you is, if guns were even banned completely, criminals can still acquire them through the same means for which they acquire drugs. Purchasing them through the black markets or making them themselves, they care nothing for the laws. So, it’s not that laws are so lax that criminals can have guns… it’s about not making criminals out of law abiding citizens for having the means to protect themselves.

Nah TML, the criminals will get their guns from the federal government, just like the criminals in Mexico do!!! The criminals that are at the head of this government will make sure that they are well armed!!!

Flashy says:
“Support policies which make it easier for criminals to buy guns and commit crimes…and make it harder to vote.”

Lets compromise. Compromise style
We will make it harder to vote and we will allow buying guns to have the same rules.

Or lets compromise and let voting stay as it is and bring gun buying to the same rules.

Or lets go the other way and make voting as easy as currently buying a firearm.

Choose one Flashy.

Bob; Good comment

Bob,What do you do when a blue light goes off behind you on the road? Pull over in response to the law telling you to?? Do you teach your children to do that also???? That dude at Ruby Ridge and David Koresh had more than AMPLE time to “pull over” before anyone was killed!! As for Fast and Furious it may turn out to be a big mistake or even criminal conduct but that is being investigated under other parts of the same Constituion that contains the second amendment! Do you really believe the COLO. shooting was a false flag or are you just trying to help Uncle Bob out of a weak position?

Bob, we never had Wide Receiver before Fast & Furious either and I guess Wide Receiver was planned by Obama before he ever became president, he has some power huh.

bob, you just make it up as you go

NC,
After haunting our board for years now, I can no longer believe that you are just an innocent dupe. Nobody can be that dense.
Ruby Ridge:
http://www.cato.org/publications/commentary/remember-ruby-ridge

Waco:
http://www.cato.org/pubs/pas/pa395.pdf

Two wrongs only make a right in Liberal minds, TA.

” Thinking About says:
July 30, 2012 at 9:15 am
Bob, we never had Wide Receiver before Fast & Furious either and I guess Wide Receiver was planned by Obama before he ever became president, he has some power huh.”

Of course there was a “wide Receiver” and it happened under Bush. Wide Receiver only involved 400 guns and was stopped as soon as they realized they could not track them even with RF devices implanted in the weapons and with the co-operation of the Mexican authorities. F&F made no attempt to follow the estimated 2,500 firearms allowed to walk and in fact agents on the ground were ordered to not follow the weapons. And I have seen no effort to blaim Wide Receiver on obama.

CZ52, add to that…Mexico had no clue of the Fast & Furious operation…this was a hidden agenda done behind their back.

nc says:
“Bob,What do you do when a blue light goes off behind you on the road?”

Nothing. Blue lights are used on police vehicles in Europe though. Perhaps that tells us a lot about your thinking. Or you are colorblind

Here in America, Emergency vehicles use RED lights.

California:
http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/vctop/d12/vc25252.htm

Vicki – Here most police use blue lights.

Karolyn says:
“Vicki – Here most police use blue lights.”

And where is ‘here’? State will be sufficient.

Vicki says:

July 30, 2012 at 5:43 pm

nc says:
“Bob,What do you do when a blue light goes off behind you on the road?”

Nothing. Blue lights are used on police vehicles in Europe though. Perhaps that tells us a lot about your thinking. Or you are colorblind

Here in America, Emergency vehicles use RED lights.

California:
http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/vctop/d12/vc25252.htm

******************************************************************************************

My question to you Vicki, is why are you so accusatory on a none issue, such as a harmless throw away statement about blue lights?

I can tell you that blue lights are used in Florida, Tennessee, Mississippi, Kentucky, N.C., S.C., Alabama, Michigan State Police, and others. Most states use a combination of blue / Red. But some use Blue as the dominate color.

But you may have some merit to your comment, Vicky. The U.N., otherwise known as the United Nations uses blue. I believe that nc’s Freudian slip of the police’s use of blue lights, may enable you to hoist him up by his balls for treason. Good catch Vicky. You are a bright light to this site. Not blue light mind you. But some bright light, that may include color, but not blue.

Wow……..

you want proof read the bible

How did you get here? The Earth, Universe, trillions of stars and planets, where did they come from?

Robert,
Where did the attack on religion come from? Was that a necessary part of the conversation? Are you jealous because they strive to have Principles and you don’t?

steve, you speak the truth. And by their very words, they prove it! The bible plainly speaks of the persecution of believers and that persecution is moving full steam ahead. Not just in the world but in our country too. I never thought that I would see that persecution in my lifetime but it is happening! Believers in GOD are criticized and harassed! They are vilified! They are jailed for conducting bible studies in their own homes! Anyone who has read the bible knows that it is true because everything it said would happen, is happening! So whenever the nut cases critisize belief in GOD and the bible, they just confirm what we already know to be true!

Nancy,
Thanks for your comment but keep in mind that most writers on this site are “Heathens”, that can be easily seen by the context of their comments…
The defect of Heathenism is brought on by years of disregard for The King’s Law as Written in His Law Book called The Holy Bible of The Almighty God…
The Founding Fathers of America called out King Jesus as The King of America in The battle against king George the third, the battle cry was “no king but King Jesus!” as they exercised their gun rights from King Jesus , see Luke 22:36 …
The first two “Orders” under The King’s Command are found at Matthew 6:33 and The Keys to The Kingdom were given to a Man called Peter at Matthew 16:19 and that Man Peter tells you at Acts 2:38 how to become a “True” Christian … Acts 2:38 is one of The Keys to The Kingdom and these same Keys are The Keys to “Truth and Liberty “see John 8:32… NO one! can take The Spiritual Guns from The King’s Men and The physical gun right as seen at Luke 22:36 can be exercised under The King’s Authority as needed in defense of His Blessings …
Praise King Jesus for Salvation and Healing …

Whatever. The point is why bother? We can make no difference anyway. Of course, I believe that there is a lot going on we don’t know about, but I can’t do anything about it except control my own little world. If each person concentrated on making the world a better place iinstead of seeking out all the things to make us angry, it would be a much better place. To much focus on the negative just helps it to keep going and get worse. We need more good to outweigh the bad. Power vs. force. Love has all the power.

There is lots you can do about it, Karolyn.
For one, quit pestering good people who have valid grievances with your “think positive” and “love” nonsense, which has nothing to do with the conversation, as if that somehow makes you superior.
Another would be to educate yourself in the Principles of Freedom, Morality, and Capitalism, so that you may impart them to your acquaintances.
Here would be a good start:
http://mises.org/books/capitalism_kelly.pdf

dave h. if you were as smart as you think you are, you would know that it does not matter who gets elected . it’s the same body with a different face all the time . get rid of the political system then you can start to fix the country. until then your screwed.

Steve, but you are still a Leftist. So if You get rid of goverment, who are these persons who will jump into the fray to take over quick before the mob gets wise. You are cunning and think yourself clever to play that stupid game with the posters.

Karolyn, the only way evil can exist is for good people to stand by and do nothing. I think it’s fair to say that the vast majority of people just want to live their lives with love and peace. However when you see evil and do nothing it will grow until it has taken over. Love and peace aren’t possible in the presence of evil. I think that you’re mistaken in the view that we will all just be left alone if we do nothing. Many people have made that mistake in the past and have paid dearly for it. If we don’t protect our rights to be left alone we will never have love and peace. You acknowledge that there are things going on in secret, yet you just want to ignore it. Do you really think it will go away by itself? You need to take your head out of the sand and seek truth. Don’t wait until it is too late!

So you tell me, Nancy, what do we do? Awareness without action is BS. My action is in trying to assist in raising the vibration of the world by not concentrating on what’s bad but concentrating on what I am FOR, What exactly do you propose? Keep bitching about everything? What good does that do? I sign petitions, write my congressmen, vote and do anything in my power in support of what I believe. What else can be done?

No, Dave, it doesn’t make anyone superior, and I don’t feel that. Why don’t YOU try reading something different for a change, like “Power vs. Force” by Dr. Hawkins. If I am such a bother, you simplly do not have to read my posts. I presume you must really think I and othrs who feel the way I do are just plain ignorant, and I really don’t care. At least I will readily say that I don’t have all the answers. Although, on second thought, the answers really do all lie in people loving each other. Love has everything to do with everything.

I wish you could just tone down the love for other peoples’ money, Karolyn.

Karolyn says:
“Whatever. The point is why bother? We can make no difference anyway.”

If we can make no difference why are you here? Go and control “control” your own little world.

Jon says ” Why did our Strategic Command not protect the twin towers”? More unsubstantiated theories trying to stoke the fires! How would that have been done with the unsuspecting usuage of commercial airlines? Should our government have had more draconian laws in place at the airports to avoid such incidences ? I think the Patriot Act took care of that.

Government complicity or not, the Aurora event just highlights the failure of Gun Laws:
http://www.usnews.com/debate-club/does-the-colorado-shooting-prove-the-need-for-more-gun-control-laws/colorado-shooting-shows-the-failure-of-gun-control-laws

I agree DaveH…. good article. Although my comment was more about government involvement as any kind of ‘false flag’ event. Sure there are some strange details surrounding the event in Colorado, but it must be admitted that it’s mere, and utter, speculation. The government will indeed, without question, try to capitalize on the tragedy to try and finally push their agendas through. But we should fight those policies with the same time tested reason that has held them off continually, and not succumb to wild accusation about government stings which can take away credibility from those with the pro-gun argument.

While indeed there is no proof of Government complicity, and maybe never will be, Governments do have a long history of False Flag Events, and as Freedom-Loving citizens we should all be aware of such common deceit by Sociopathic Leaders who know no bounds of morality when it comes to what will best feather their own nests.
For instance, this book details the events before and after the Pearl Harbor attacks, which prove to any reasonable person that FDR was lying to the American public in order to join the wars for his own and his fellow leaders’ benefit:
http://mises.org/books/pearl_harbor_greaves.pdf

Something to think about:
http://modernsurvivalblog.com/current-events-economics-politics/false-flag-events/

More:
http://911review.com/articles/anon/false_flag_perations.html

Still more:
http://joecrubaugh.com/blog/10-false-flags-that-changed-the-world/

The scenario of Aurora, CO will be so muddied up with the presumed months and years that the trial will be prolonged that not even the stagers themselves will remember what was done.

DaveH says, “Governments do have a long history of False Flag Events”

This I don’t deny whatsoever.

DaveH says, “and as Freedom-Loving citizens we should all be aware of such common deceit by Sociopathic Leaders who know no bounds of morality”

And of course, the best way to do that is to remain steadfast in principle, rather than letting the emotion from a given event drive us.

DaveH says, “For instance, this book details the events before and after the Pearl Harbor attacks, which prove to any reasonable person that FDR was lying to the American public in order to join the wars for his own and his fellow leaders’ benefit:”

I agree about the over-exaggerations that were played, but I hardly think that example is a good one. Pearl Harbor was no false flag event, the bombing on American soil was enough in itself to enter the war, along with Hitler having declared war on us. That, I believe, was the last justified war America was ever engaged.

Thanks for the links though… good reads

We were provoking the Germans long before they attacked us, TML.
Ditto for the Japanese. I’m certainly not defending either, but if we had stayed out of WWI and WWII, there would have been many fewer deaths, and maybe the Balkin States wouldn’t have ended up under Communist control for 50 years.
And FDR could have done something about the Pearl Harbor attack (which he knew about far in advance) but instead he let 2400 military personnel die so he could get his wish of entry into WWII.

TML says:
“I agree to the extent that I don’t believe this to be a setup by the government. Until strong evidence shows the contrary,….”

There IS strong evidence. Not that the government bought the shooters stuff and/or sent him to that theater.

The strong evidence is that the government made laws in violation of both state and federal Constitutional limits that caused law abiding citizens to travel unarmed. This created a open killing field for the shooter. Just as in the shootings at various schools (gun free zones) it is not a matter of IF but WHEN a criminal (you know, the not law abiding) would make use of such a tempting environment.

Government stupidity will get innocent people killed just as easily as planned false flags.

Delores Smith .. It is so easy to call someone who you disagree with the names you are using. None if what you call Obama makes him those things. If you aspire toward TEA we who do not can say you are a Nazi. See how easy it to just call people you do not understand, or at all know, the names you want to call them? I bet I know a lot more about TEA/John Birch Society then you know about Obama and it really doesn’t matter if you are for TEA or not, I think you get my point. But you do not have to worry about it.

you have your head to deep in the sand to see the truth,,,,,,

Alex’s statements of fact have been proved over time far more often than anything that comes from your mouth, Eddie.

Eddie 47,
Your comment here leads me to believe that you actually trust and believe in this Government. Is my assumption correct? And……..can you tell me that you don’t believe that this Government has an agenda to disarm the citizens of this country? Can you honestly tell me that with the three most dangerous cities to live in within this country, those being New York, Chicago and Washington, DC with the MOST stringent gun control laws, that the rest of this country needs more gun control like those three cities?

Firefight: If they can’t control the flow of illegal weapons into their cities then the carnage could continue. I’m not against armed citizens only in how they procure those weapons.

So Dave and Ray, Alex Jones gets something right once in awhile and you think he is a god. Never mind all the BS inbetween! Don’t be so gullible!

eddie47d says:
“Firefight: If they can’t control the flow of illegal weapons into their cities then the carnage could continue. I’m not against armed citizens only in how they procure those weapons.”

So change the law so that weapons are not illegal. Presto no more illegal weapons flowing into their cities. Now they can focus on the real problem. You know. Bad people.

Your too obsessed with Your Rights and not enough with the victims who no longer have rights! When guns are so easily accessible your bound to have these continued tragedies. Sorry I don’t want the person sitting next to me in a theater holding an AR-15 or any other weapon for that matter. James Holmes should have been red flagged in the speed he bought his weapons (including bombs) and also that large stash of ammo. Americans should have access to self protection but under the strictest of laws.

Eddie says — “Your too obsessed with Your Rights and not enough with the victims who no longer have rights!”.
To the contrary, Eddie. You and your gun-grabbing buddies are accessories to the murder of all the innocent victims who could not protect themselves easily thanks to your anti-second-amendment gun laws.

eddie47d,
As usual, you come here, spout off your opinion…with absolutely nothing to back up your opinion. How do you ever expect anyone to take you seriously? Don’t buy a vowel…buy a clue eddie47d. As long as you keep spouting off and not backing it up…..you’ll continue look like an idiot…and in your case, looks apparently… aren’t decieving.
Open up another can of stupid and wash it down with a big cup of STFU!

Best Wishes,
AJ

Eddie says, “James Holmes should have been red flagged in the speed he bought his weapons (including bombs) and also that large stash of ammo. Americans should have access to self protection but under the strictest of laws.”

Laws that forbid the carrying of arms, disarm only those who are neither inclined, nor determined to commit crimes. Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants. They serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, because an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man.

Stricter gun laws are not the answer. And you would have your fellow citizen disarmed as you said plainly you don’t want anyone in a theater next to you with any kind of weapon. We… those with understanding… think more of the victims who lost their lives than do people such as yourself (those driven by irrational fears)

It is going to come down to a revolt! I will not give up my guns to nobody. I am ready to get rid of our goverment now. Too much greed and liars in office now.

eddie47d You are an idiot!!!!! Criminals dont worry about gun laws stupid they steal what they want from helpless people!!!! The law are not here to protect us any more they are here for the money,catching speeders that are late for work instead of the crack dealers and gang members. It is like the goverment they prey on the working man. We pay for all the trashy ass people that wont work. So i hope you get robbed and then you can see how it feels to be in the real world!!!!

Wake up Dave H and Average Joe and company. The Swiss have extremely strict laws in the control of weapons And allow the ownership of weapons. They also don’t have theater shootings and school massacres. If you can’t see the problem then you all are beyond help. You my friends are marching your fellow citizens to the slaughter.

Eddie says, “Wake up Dave H and Average Joe and company. The Swiss have extremely strict laws in the control of weapons And allow the ownership of weapons. They also don’t have theater shootings and school massacres. If you can’t see the problem then you all are beyond help. You my friends are marching your fellow citizens to the slaughter.”

The Swiss don’t just allow ownership of weapons, have laws that government issue every able-bodies person a firearm, while you admittedly don’t want your neighbor to be armed with “any kind of weapon”.

So while we see from the Swiiss, who have never been invaded because all citizens are armed, you reject this same idea for the citizens of America. You kind of proverbially… “shooting yourself in the foot”, with that example Eddie.

eddie47d just lies and makes up crap!!! Ignore him!!!

Nancy, I believe you are accusing Eddie47d of being a typical liberal.

eddie, no one really likes what guns do to other people, particularly when in the hands of criminals. I’m not personally a gun fanatic. But I am a history buff and a Constitutionalist. I believe in facts, not hype or propaganda. Some simple facts for you:

1) By category, more people die every year in automobile accidents, drownings, and even in accidental falls than from firearm homicides (CDC, 2009 Report). By percentage, firearm homicides are not even in the top ten causes of death in the United States. Number one is heart disease, which kills more than 50% of the people who die each year.

2) Influential people in high places (Sarah Brady) have publicly stated that disarming the public through any means, including lying, is needful in order to succeed in a socialist agenda. To quote her directly:

“Our main agenda is to have ALL guns banned. We must use whatever means possible. It doesn’t matter if you have to distort facts or even lie. Our task of creating a socialist America can only succeed when those who would resist us have been totally disarmed.” – Sarah Brady, President of Handgun Control, Inc., to Senator Howard Metzenbaum – The National Educator, January, 1994, Page 3.

3) 75% of violent crimes do not involve the use of firearms. (CNN Report)

4) Some of the greatest atrocities in history have been committed by governments against their own people.

Instances of democide (a rough mixture of genocide, politicide, and mass murder) have been documented in communist states such as the Soviet Union under Joseph Stalin, in the People’s Republic of China under Mao Zedong, and in Cambodia under the Khmer Rouge. To that, add as well Kim Il Sung, Mao Tse-tung, Ho Chi Minh and Pol Pot. There were anywhere from 21-70 million non-combatant civilians killed by these governments (their own) during peacetime. See Manus I. Midlarsky, The killing trap: genocide in the twentieth century. Also, see Steven Rosefielde’s Red Holocaust.

And all of this is ignoring the obvious, like Nazi Germany and the six million Jews who were murdered. The ones that died first were German Jews. On November 9th, Jews were killed, arrested, and their property was destroyed in the pogrom that started as the Night of Broken Glass. The problem was further aggravated with the added regulation against Jews:

“Jews (§ 5 of the First Regulations of the German Citizenship Law of 14 November 1935, Reichsgesetzblatt 1, p. 1332) are prohibited from acquiring, possessing, and carrying firearms and ammunition, as well as truncheons or stabbing weapons. Those now possessing weapons and ammunition are at once to turn them over to the local police authority.” (Regulations Against Jews’ Possession of Weapons)

So they weren’t even permitted to have a stick to beat off an attacker while a state sponsored riot was in full force throughout Germany. As the Germans marched on, the people in the invaded countries were disarmed and overtaken.

And let’s not forget the Rape of Nanking, where Japanese soldiers murdered upwards of 300,000 disarmed troops and citizens. Today we still have issues in various parts of Africa. There is also Burma. The list goes on.

These are only a few choice examples of the last century, during what most might call a “civilized” era, versus our barbaric past when we didn’t know better. It’s always important to remember that we have nun-chucks today because of Sho Shin in the 1400s, who disarmed the citizens of the Ryukyu kingdom to prevent the possibility of revolt.

The fact is, governments disarm their people so they can do what they want with impunity, and people who are disarmed inevitably become the victims of those governments.

5) Guns do not shoot themselves. Guns are a tool. They are a tool that can kill. But so can a hammer, a chainsaw, a butter knife, a monkey wrench, a baseball bat, or a number of other things. The gun is no more going to load, rack, point and fire itself than the chainsaw is going to gas up, prime, choke, pull start, and lunge at someone’s throat. Guns don’t kill. Guns are tools used by killers.

6) England has a complete ban on firearms for its citizens. It hasn’t stopped gun crimes. Nor has it disarmed the criminals. During the riots in London in August of 2011, there is video footage of looters with guns. Eye witness accounts from store proprietors also claim that they were held at gun point, with no way to defend themselves.

7) In Mexico there is a complete ban on firearms. Yet, it is one of the most violent places in the world right now. It’s not a good place to visit. The goal was to disarm the criminals, but all it managed to do was disarm the vulnerable public. Now the bad guys have the guns, and everyone else treads carefully. And our own government has been giving guns to these drug cartels to generate a Sarah Brady bending of the truth that will pave the way for banning assault rifles.

Bro, I appreciate your outrage at what happened in Colorado. It was an awful thing. But he’s one man. He makes up less than .00000001% of the United States population. When you talk about stricter laws, you’re talking about putting more laws on 309,999,999 people due to the actions of 1.

In the grand scheme of things, we need the ability to keep our government at bay. To preserve our freedom, we need the ability to fight back should it ever become necessary. If you are attacked, you have the right to defend yourself, and so do I. Neither of us should have to be made vulnerable because of a lunatic’s actions.

Alex….your argument is the one used in any debate over gun control. facts are facts…guns are used to commit violent crime, they are used to ll people, and widespread packing outside the home does not make anyone safer…just the opposite. you want to have an arsenal in the home/ have at it. As I said, affects me not unless I’m your neighbor. For all I care, go in the backyard and play target practice using your tonsils as the target.

Packin’ in public? Uh uh..that’s where my Right to be safe overrides anyone’s Right to pack a concealed handgun. Period. And no…I seriously have doubts about being safe with people packin in public places.

As to your “quote’ of Sarah brady….ummmm, it’s a lie. Out and out fabricated lie. i’d advise checking on it before using it any more.

================ (from one of several sites about it)

There are two common “strains” of the Sarah Brady bogus quote, one short, one long:

“Our task of creating a socialist America can only succeed when those who would resist us are totally disarmed.”

“Our main agenda is to have ALL guns banned. We must use whatever means possible. It doesn’t matter if you have to distort facts or even lie. Our task of creating a socialist America can only succeed when those who would resist us have been totally disarmed.”

The most common citation for both versions is: The National Educator, January, 1994, Page 3 (link is off-site). As you can see, the long version does not exist for the citation given.

This tall-tale gets further embellished by claiming either Sarah Brady made her statement in a letter to Howard Metzenbaum or the quote appeared as an article, again the National Educator, page 3, is usually cited.

Here is a small sample taken from the sadly large number of Web pages mentioning the bogus quote and illustrating the above points (visited September, 7, 2007):

http://www.newswithviews.com/Hayes/gianni5.htm
http://usa-patriot.net/page1.shtml
http://www.americanchronicle.com/articles/viewArticle.asp?articleID=25482
http://www.newswithviews.com/Evensen/greg2.htm
http://www.prisonplanet.com/analysis_newsom_01_03_03_destruction1.html

A footnote (193) in this law review article purports to cite the Congressional Record of 1989 and 1994 when Congress was considering a ban on certain semi-automatic weapons. The footnote reads:

140 CONG. REC. S1864-01, S1866 (daily ed. Feb. 28, 1989) (statement of William Pattison). Sarah Brady has been cited as stating that, “Our task of creating a socialist America can only succeed when those who could resist us have been totally disarmed.” 140 CONG. REC. H3063-05. H3071-H3072 (daily ed. May 5, 1994) (statement of Joel Carlston). Such a result is exactly what the Framers of the Second Amendment sought to prevent. James Madison stated, “Americans need never fear their government because of the advantage of being armed. . .” Id.

William Pattison made no such statement regarding Sarah Brady. In fact, it is highly unlikely he would have, since he was speaking on behalf of the National Association of Police Organizations urging Congress to approve the “assault weapons” ban. A check of all statements for that day reveals no reference to “the quote.” (Mr. Pattison’s entire statement can be viewed here.)

The 1994 instance, (statement from Joel Carlston, Wyoming President of Americans Against Gun Control), not only mentions the Brady quote, but incorrectly quotes James Madison from Federalist No. 46, and recites another bogus quote falsely attributed to Thomas Jefferson. (“The strongest reason for people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government.”)

The National Crime Victimization Survey (NCVS) measures the nonfatal violent crimes of rape/sexual assault, robbery, and aggravated and simple assault. Victims who experience violent crimes are asked if the offender(s) used weapons.

In 2009 —

An offender was armed with a gun, knife, or other object used as a weapon in an estimated 22% of all incidents of violent crime.

Offenders used firearms to commit 8% of violent crime incidents in 2009.

Robberies (47%) were the most likely crime to involve an armed offender.

Firearms (28%) were the most common weapons used in robberies.

Most rapes and assaults did not involve the use of a weapon.

From 1993-1997, of serious nonfatal violent victimizations, 28% were committed with a firearm, 4% were committed with a firearm and resulted in injury, and less than 1% resulted in gunshot wounds.
http://bjs.ojp.usdoj.gov/index.cfm?ty=tp&tid=43

Flashy says, “Packin in Public. Uh uh..that’s where my Right to be safe overrides anyone’s Right to pack a concealed handgun.”

So your right to be safe… from criminals who would carry in public regardless of law… overrides anyone’s right to protect themselves?

You seem to have a very narrow, self-serving, view of liberty Flashy. Not to mention a false fear that anyone who is packing in public is a danger to you.

Riddle me this one Flashy… While you support laws that would restrict people’s right to carry concealed in public for self protection, do you honestly believe that those determined to commit crimes would adhere to that law?

Answer that one question, and then we will proceed with your answer

Nancy.MAP and TML enough of your ignorant replies. Read up about the Swiss instead of just spouting the right wing version. Yes they can have weapons in their homes and have mandatory “conscription”. Beyond that all weapons are severely restricted and NO ammunition is allowed to be stored in their homes by government order. That same government is allowed in their homes to inspect if necessary. Once their term of duty is over those weapons either have to be turned in or to be modified to a single shot weapon by that same government. Calling other liars Nancy seems to be your mode of operation anymore.

Eddie says, “TML enough of your ignorant replies. Read up about the Swiss ”

I’m aware of Switzerland gun laws, but it makes little impact against my point, and doesn’t help yours when referencing their more liberty challenged laws of even having to let government inspect your home. You’re argument seems more against any kind of liberty for people to protect themselves. You did say you don’t want people to have any kind of weapon in public right?

My replies certainly are not ignorant… instead, you ignore my points, and don’t even respond directly to them with a sensible argument. Perhaps because there isn’t one?

Flashman, as usual, fabricates his facts.
Flashman says — “widespread packing outside the home does not make anyone safer…just the opposite”.
Yeah well, just ignore the fact that violent crime has gone down since 1991:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_the_United_States

And that, coincidentally, the right to carry concealed weapons has been increasing since that time:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Rtc.gif

From an article on firearm ownership in Switzerland.

Read it and weap eddie read it and weap. Guess you thought no one would take you up on looking it up huh.

“By the Federal Constitution of 1874, military servicemen are given their first equipment, clothing and arms. After the first training period, conscripts must keep gun, ammunition and equipment an ihrem Wohnort (“in their homes”) until the end of their term of service.

Today, enlisted men are issued M57 automatic assault rifles and officers are given pistol, Each reservist is issued 24 rounds of ammunition in sealed packs for emergency use. (Contrary to Handgun Control’s claim that “all ammunition must be accounted for,” the emergency ammunition is the only ammo that requires accounting.)

After discharge from service, the man is given a bolt rifle free from registration or obligation. Starting in the 1994, the government will give ex-reservists assault rifles. Officers carry pistols rather than rifles and are given their pistols the end of their service.

When the government adopts a new infantry rifle, it sells the old ones to the public.

Reservists are encouraged to buy military ammunition (7.5 and 5.6mm-5.56 mm in other countries-for rifles and 9 and 7.65 mm Luger for pistols, which is sold at cost by the government, for target practice Non-military ammunition for long-gun hunting and .22 Long Rifle (LR) ammo are not subsidised, but are subiect to no sales controls. Non-military non-hunting ammunition more powerful than .22 LR (such as .38 Spl.) is registered at the time of sale.

Swiss military ammo must be registered if bought at a private store, but need not be registered if bought at a range The nation’s 3,000 shooting ranges sell the overwhelming majority of ammunition. Technically, ammunition bought at the range must be used at the range, but the rule is barely known and almost never obeyed.

The army sells a variety of machine guns, submachine guns, anti-tank weapons, anti-aircraft guns, howitzers and cannons. Purchasers of these weapons require an easily obtained cantonal license, and the weapons are registered, In a nation of six million people, there are at least two million guns, including 600,00 fully automatic assault rifles, half a million pistols, and numerous machine guns. Virtually every home has a gun.

Besides subsidised military surplus, the Swiss can buy other firearms easily too. While long guns require no special purchase procedures, handguns are sold only to those with a Waffenerwerbsschien (purchase certificate) issued by a cantonal authority. A certificate is issued to every applicant over 18 who is not a criminal or mentally infirm.”

Doesn’t change a thing I said CZ52 you only added more information. Thanks for pointing out that law about ammunition at the shooting ranges but it is still against the Swiss law to take that ammo home. Now they can use as much as they like but excess has to be turned in. The Swiss have a more responsible approach to weapons and the regulations are tighter than you implied. We could learn something.

CZ52 says:
“From an article on firearm ownership in Switzerland.

Read it and weap eddie read it and weap. Guess you thought no one would take you up on looking it up huh.”

We knew from past experience that eddie lies or makes stuff up. However for extra fun can you post a link to that article.

eddie47d says:
“Your too obsessed with Your Rights and not enough with the victims who no longer have rights! ”

We are fighting for their rights to be armed and dangerous. It is YOU who would keep them from having the best tool for self defense when they need it the most. It is YOU and people like you who made the theater a “gun-free” zone where only the shooter would be armed.

P.S. the reader will notice how effective the signs and “law” were in keeping guns out of that theater.

@ Flashy – I’ll look into the Sarah Brady quote. Thanks for bringing the potential problem to my attention.

How does it endanger you if I carry a handgun to protect myself from being robbed, assaulted, murdered, etc.? Are you under the impression that the gun makes me a criminal? Or that the gun will inspire me to behave as a criminal? You do realize that the gun won’t shoot itself, right? Do you believe that I will shoot you because I have a gun?

Misty, gloomy, murky, misty, muddy FLASHY wrote: “facts are facts…guns are used to commit violent crime, they are used to kill people, and widespread packing outside the home does not make anyone safer…just the opposite.”

This is ONE of many the libtards’ LIES.

Gloomy, doomy Flashy, “facts are facts!” “Guns are used to” PREVENT killings and safe lives:
Here are the FACTS:

1) MI Walgreens pharmacist shooting armed robbers
2) IL Pharmacist Shoots Armed Robber
3) CA Stockton pharmacist shoots at armed robber
4) Oklahoma Pharmacist Kills Masked Armed Robber
5) George Zimmerman SHOOTS ATTACKER Trayvon Martin in SELF—DEFENSE
6) Florida Elderly Man SAVES A CAFE FULL OF PEOPLE BY SHOOTING GUN-Wielding Robbers. But of cause NBC, CBS Skipped the FACT.
7) 14-year-old Phoenix boy SHOOTS ARMED INTRUDER
8) Beauty Queen fatally SHOOTS INTRUDER in Florida home
9) Okla. Woman Shoots, Kills Intruder: 911 Operators Say It’s OK to Shoot

Do you need more Flashy?
80% armed crimes are committed by people who had NO firearm permit.

Flashy wrote “…ANOTHER BOGUS QUOTE FALSELY ATTRIBUTED TO THOMAS JEFFERSON. (“The strongest reason for people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government.”)”

Flashy, you are soooooo disgust and vicious LIAR.
Here you are having Thomas Jefferson’s quotes and sources. Go to the library and check them.

“No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms. THE STRONGEST REASON FOR THE PEOPLE TO RETAIN THE RIGHT TO KEEP AND BEAR ARMS IS, AS A LAST RESORT, TO PROTECT THEMSELVES AGAINST TYRANNY IN GOVERNMENT” — Thomas Jefferson, (Thomas Jefferson, Proposal to Virginia Constitution, 1 T. Jefferson Papers, 334,[C.J. Boyd, Ed., 1950])

“No free man shall ever be debarred the use of ARMS.” – Thomas Jefferson, Founding Father, the principal author of the Declaration of Independence (1776) and the third President of the United States, the first United States Secretary of State serving under President George Washington (Thomas Jefferson, Proposal to Virginia Constitution, 1 T. Jefferson Papers, 334,[C.J. Boyd, Ed., 1950])

“A strong body makes the mind strong. As to the species of exercises, I ADVISE THE GUN. While this gives moderate exercise to the body, it gives boldness, enterprise, and independence to the mind … LET YOUR GUN THEREFORE BE THE CONSTANT COMPANION OF YOUR WALKS.” (Thomas Jefferson, Encyclopedia of T. Jefferson, 318 [Foley, Ed., reissued 1967])

“What country can PRESERVE ITS LIBERTIES if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance. Let them take ARMS.” (Thomas Jefferson to James Madison, Dec. 20, 1787, in Papers of Jefferson, ed. Boyd et al.)

Murky, muddy FLASHY, the Founding Fathers had the TOTALLY OPPOSITE view on the FIREARMS from yours.

Here what George Washingtonand others said about FIREARMS:

“A free people OUGHT not only to BE ARMED and disciplined, but THEY SHOULD HAVE SUFFICIENT ARMS AND AMMUNITION TO MAINTAIN A STATUS OF INDEPENDENCE FROM ANY WHO MIGHT ATTEMPT TO ABUSE THEM, which would include their own GOVERNMENT.” – George Washington, the Founding Father, the 1st President of the USA, the 1st Commander-in-Chief

“Firearms are second only to the Constitution in importance; THEY ARE THE PEOPLE’S LIBERTY’S TEETH…” – George Washington

“The very atmosphere of FIREARMS ANYWHERE and EVERYWHERE RESTRAINS EVIL INTERFERENCE. They deserve a place of HONOR with all that is good.” – George Washington

“The said Constitution shall NEVER be construed to authorize Congress to prevent the people of the United States who are peaceable citizens from keeping their own ARMS.” – Samuel Adams, the Founding Fathers of the United States, one of the leaders of American Revolution, 4th Governor of Massachusetts, political Philosopher

“The great object is that every man be armed. Everyone who is able may have a GUN.” – Patrick Henry, the Founding Father

“Are we at last brought to such humiliating and debasing degradation that we cannot be trusted with arms for our defense? Where is the difference between having our ARMS in possession and under our direction, and having them under the management of CONGRESS? If our defense be the real object of having those ARMS, in whose hands can they be trusted with more propriety, or equal safety to us, as in our own hands?” – Patrick Henry

“Whenever governments mean to invade the RIGHTS and LIBERTIES of the people, they always attempt to destroy the militia, in order to raise an army upon their ruins.” – Rep. Elbridge Gerry of Massachusetts

“To preserve LIBERTY, it is essential that the whole body of people ALWAYS possess ARMS…” – Richard Henry Lee – Senator, First Congress

“A MILITIA, when properly formed, are in fact the people themselves … and include all men capable of bearing ARMS.” – Richard Henry Lee – Senator, First Congress

“Who are the MILITIA? Are they not ourselves? Is it feared, then, that we shall turn our ARMS each man gains his own bosom/security/heart/center. CONGRESS HAS NO POWER TO DISARM THE MILITIA. Their swords, and every other terrible implement of the soldier, are the birthright of an American…[T]he unlimited power of the sword is not in the hands of either the federal or state governments, but, where I trust in God it will ever remain, IN THE HANDS OF THE PEOPLE.” – Tenche Coxe (an American political economist and a delegate for Pennsylvania to the Continental Congress

Amendment 2 – Right to Bear Arms. Ratified 12/15/1791
A well regulated Militia, BEING NECESSARY TO THE SECURITY OF A FREE STATE, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED.

Amendment 4 – Search and Seizure. Ratified 12/15/1791
The right of the people TO BE SECURE IN THEIR PERSONS, HOUSES, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, SHALL NOT BE VIOLATED, AND NO WARRANTS SHALL ISSUE, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

Flashy, did not your mama told you that LYING is a SIN?
Flashy, do NOT SIN.

In God We Trust

Where’s the lie VICKIE? None! So that make you one troll!

Edddie 47 says…….”Sorry I don’t want the person sitting next to me in a theater holding an AR-15 or any other weapon for that matter. James Holmes should have been red flagged in the speed he bought his weapons (including bombs) and also that large stash of ammo. Americans should have access to self protection but under the strictest of laws.”

Once again, Eddie47 displays his stupidity that echoes that of all liberal retards. Eddie, If someone had been carrying his or her own firearm in that theater, chances are this gunman would be dead and much fewer innocent people would have been killed or injured. It’s people like you and this theater chain who create gun free zones that make it easy for these cowards to attack and kill innocent people. When will you morons ever learn. Criminals do not want to go to places where there’s a chance of someone there being armed. Ever hear about a shooting at a Starbucks? And, it’s those “strictest of laws in New York, Chicago and Washington, D.C. that make them the cities with the highest gun crime rate. Know why? It’s because of the stupid Liberal politicians who have imposed those “strictest” of gun laws that YOU talk about. Wake up moron. It’s people like you that give people like James Holmes their targets of opportunity.

IGNORANCE is STRENGTH.

The bell has been rung today, and the dogs are salivating…….on cue. Will this be good for business?

It would appear that ” To conquer, first DIVIDE!” can be achieved quite simply by relying on the obvious fact that WORDS……..having been stripped of any meaningful definition are easily employed to incite the rabble who think they understand them and will respond accordingly to whatever their preconceived notion happens to be…………

Today’s word is “communism” ( for sp3000 ) a term, credited to Karl Marx ( & Engels ) as
a response to the obvious flaws in the economic conditions of the times ( 1848 ). Your mission……if you decide to accept it……..is to determine, precisely what those “conditions”
consisted of and what terms you would use to DEFINE that which actually EXISTED?
That which did exist evolved from this concept or if you prefer this observation or concern?

“A man must live by his work, and his wages must be at least enough to maintain him.
They must even on most occasions be somewhat more: otherwise it would be impossible for him to bring up a family and the RACE of such workmen could not last beyond the first generation.”

While it is interesting to note sp3000′s claim of the failure of “communism” as an “economic system” one must first grant a number of assumptions…….

1.) That is has actually been TRIED which is difficult to establish in that it’s contemporary
manifestations it has been “claimed” by “political machines whose governmental structures
were based on FORCE”……….whose primary function was to maintain “central authority”
FIRST………and then to deal with the understanding of the particular’s of this “economic
philosophy” from within this framework.

The REALITY of “communism” or “the communal nature” of humanity, is a well established
evolutionary survival strategy that has been with us from our beginning as a distinct species, approximately 200,000 years ago……..and is responsible for our present condition at the “top of the food change”, although how much longer we will be there does
not look promising……….to understand this, if you choose to……..you should read:

The Social Conquest of Earth: E.O.Wilson ( 2012 )

2.) The second assumption that is required is that “economic philosophy” is VALID and
actually can be shown to have an “empirical foundation”………and unfortunately, this assumption has been easily demonstrated to be FALSE………so any discourse, which seeks to argue a preference regarding what is presently understood as a “distinct economic philosophy” regardless of what one chooses to call it………is essentially irrelevant and a continuation of the “willful ignorance” that permeates the general population and which is simply the “perceived self interest” of the “eye of the beholder”,
although this is often cited as “rational self interest”. To understand THIS:

Economic’s Unmasked: Smith and Max-Neef ( 2011 )

Of course, the understanding of REALITY which rests on the “empirical discipline” as opposed to the various mythologies which still hold sway, is not one which has reached
a level of “common understanding”…………..so that, the endless babble, clearly evidenced
each and everyday on this site and others, seeks only to serve the “perceived self interest” of the bell ringer………any connection to REALITY or the TRUTH, is purely co-incidental…………….( to be continued and continually demonstrated……until next time )

” Do not ask for WHOM the bell tolls………just salivate, baby! “

Apparently, Galt, you were standing too close to that bell as it was tolling.

Not to worry David……..this is going to be a lot of fun…….as you are one of the salivating
puppies……you will be oblivious to most of it…….while being an excellent demonstration of the compulsion of the willfully ignorant to produce an irrelevant response to that for which they possess precisely zero comprehension………….

Where are those (common) law and equity courts?

Why have you “voluntarily” exchanged “rights” for privileges and benefits, and subjected yourself to fee’s, fines, duties, impost, excises, direct and indirect taxes, which had you not
done so…….would then actually be “unconstitutional”……..? and by continue to ignore the
SOLUTION makes you…….like the rest here……a part of the PROBLEM!

Don’t have a von mises link to explain this? Try this one…….

http://www.supremelaw.org/authors/freeman/freeman4.htm

FREEDOM is SLAVERY……..bye now.

freelarrysinclair @10:42 am, Please care to cite the FACTS to back up your LIBTARD rant.

You’re right, Average Joe! We SHOULD look to Europe to solve all of our problems in the US! Glad to see you’re on the winning team!

You people crack me up. You’ll grab at anything if it’ll help you make some untenable point even if it conflicts with everything you’ve ever said before.

freelarrysinclair,

“We SHOULD look to Europe to solve all of our problems in the US! Glad to see you’re on the winning team! ”

I’m not sure what you are trying to say here..as I didn’t mention anything about Europe in my post .

This was a quote from eddie47d….not a quote from me….“The Swiss have extremely strict laws in the control of weapons And allow the ownership of weapons.”

I simply pointed out that he didn’t back up his assertions with any facts…as eddie always does….opinion…no facts.

I rely on the 2nd Amendment and could really care less about Europe and thier policies.

Best Wishes,
AJ

So Joe are you going to be as dense and stubborn and refuse to look up the facts or is that your way off pleading ignorance on the subject.

eddie47d,
Again, where is your proof of anything you say? Oh right, you didn’t bring any…(who woulda thunk?)

You write:

” The Swiss have extremely strict laws in the control of weapons And allow the ownership of weapons.”

Actually eddie, the Swiss are unique in thier attitude twards guns and gun control and a bit of actual research on your behalf would have shown that to be true):

From Wikipedia:

Gun politics in Switzerland are unique in Europe. Switzerland does not have a standing army, instead opting for a peoples Militia to defend their country. The vast majority of men between the ages of 20 and 30 are conscripted into the militia and undergo military training, including weapons training. Due to this fact, the personal weapons of the militia are kept at home as part of the military obligations. Switzerland has one of the highest militia gun ownership rates in the world. In recent times political opposition has expressed a desire for tighter gun regulations.A referendum in February 2011 rejected stricter gun control.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_politics_in_Switzerland

Eddie, there are a myriad of other links out there for you to research to obtain a bit of enlightenment about the real world vs. your imagined world ( not that I believe that you can or will read any of them). You like to hold others accountable for the things that they say here, but seem to think that the same standards should not be applied to you ( hypocracy, thy name is eddie47d)

You remind me of a wind sock…you always have your mouth open…but nothing but air seems to eminate from your backside….

The ball is in your court now eddie…put up or shut up…your incessant whing isn’t pretty and your ignorance is showing.

Best Wishes,
AJ

AJ,

Wikipedia is not “fact” and is a highly dubious source if you are trying to prove an argument.

The Swiss Federal Police Office reports that in 1997 there were 87 intentional homicides and 102 attempted homicides in the entire country. Some 91 of these 189 murders and attempts involved firearms. With its population of seven million (including 1.2 million foreigners), Switzerland had a homicide rate of 1.2 per 100,000. There were 2,498 robberies (and attempted robberies), of which 546 involved firearms, resulting in a robbery rate of 36 per 100,000. Almost half of these crimes were committed by non-resident foreigners, whom locals call “criminal tourists.”

Now you say “correctly” that all males must server in the country “militia” so that means they do not have the “liberty” to be a part of the volunteer force that we have in this country. That flies in the face of the libertarian viewpoint #1. They they have training on the weapons they do have, their culture is not like ours either… Also they are more socialistic-likr when it comes to the services they provide to their people. They have a HC mandate “gasp!!! oh the horror!!!”

http://www.state.gov/r/pa/ei/bgn/3431.htm

Their culture as far as guns go is completely different than ours… They like the Israelis do not view guns as toys like many in this country do, They are not as narcissistic as us, not sold on fear like us.

We need to get to the root that causes people in this country to wig out and turn to guns as the first means to deal with anything.

The ball is still in my court and the article doesn’t refute a thing I said. Matter of fact it backs me up. Ammunition is not kept at home except for select swat type teams. They take gun ownership seriously too bad you trivialize our incoherent and reckless laws. Best Wishes in an attempt to be more truthful.

Dave67 says:

“Wikipedia is not “fact” and is a highly dubious source if you are trying to prove an argument.”

I am guessing that reading comprehension is not one of your strong suits?
Nice try, but invalid as an argument on your behalf. Since you obviously missed what I said……

I wrote:

“Eddie, there are a myriad of other links out there for you to research to obtain a bit of enlightenment about the real world vs. your imagined world ( not that I believe that you can or will read any of them). ”

My point, for eddie and folks like you…bring verifiable facts to support your arguments…otherwise you are simply giving us your opinion…and your opinion isn’t worth squat to us. eddie47d likes to spout off, but never offers anything other than his opinion…he needs to do the work and validate his assertions…and ….you need to take a remedial reading comprehension class.

Best Wishes,
AJ

The Bible isn’t fact either yet people use it all the time. What do you use – Conservapedia or mises.org?

eddie47d,

You have got to be the most dense skulled human that I have ever had the displeasure to have conversed with…you still don’t get the point of this conversation that you and I are having….it isn’t about Switzerland’s gun laws….it is and has been about ther fact that YOU never bring anything to back up your claims…nothing…ever.
It is about the fact that it usually takes a very few seconds to look something up and post a link to your “facts”…you know…back up what you say with something verifiable.
You whine that others don’t do it…but somehow…you should be held to a different standard than what you want to hold others to…you are quite simply…a hypocrite. As stated previously…bring something other than your opinion to the table, if you wish to be taken seriously….so far you have not brought anything other than your opinion…..and your opinion isn’t worth the time it takes you to type it.

As I stated above…I really don’t care what the gun laws in europe happen to be, I rely solely on the US Constitution, The Declaration of Independence and my creator for my right to bear arms…the UN has no authority over me, nor does Europe or “statutes” passed under “color of law”by legislators..

U.C.C. 1-103:6 Common law.The Code is “Complementary” to the common law which remains in force except where displaced by the Code ….

A statute should be construed in harmony with the common law unless there is a clear legislative intent to abrogate the common law…. “The Code cannot be read to preclude a common law action.”

Any Statute that is not in harmony with the Constitution is in fact…not law.

The only way to legitimately change the Second Amendment is by Constitutional Amendment…and so far, that hasn’t happened….nor will it.

No matter what they do, if they attempt to take away my “creator” given right to defend myself,my family or my property…I will not comply…period.
I am in no way… a “gun nut”. I own 3 black powder pistols (because they are just plain fun to shoot), a 9mm. and a .22. So far (in the last 30 yrs.), I have been to the ranges a few times each year and have yet to shoot anyone no matter how badly they may have deserved it. But if the need arises, I will not hesitate to protect my loved ones and my property…period.

Guns are not the problem…criminals, with or without guns are the problem. If you outlaw guns, you disarm honest law abiding citizens and embolden the criminal elements. Criminals will not turn in thier guns…that is why they are called criminals…they break the law…therefore new laws will have no effect on thier criminal enterprises ( other than to make it easier for them to break the law). The cities with the highest rates of gun violence are also the cities with the most stringent gun laws, Los Angeles, New York, Chicago, Detroit, D.C. etc.
Australia banned ownership a few years ago and all of thhier crime rates have gone up….not down.

Guns are part of the culture…and banning them will not stop anyone from getting them anymore than prohibition stopped people from drinking or the war on drugs has stopped people from dabbling in drugs…..prohibition doesn’t work…it never has and it never will. Until you liberal unicorn chasers figure out the obvious…..you are doomed and you doom the rest of us along with yourselves. So, ban guns and I will become “just another criminal”….because I am not going to comply.

For those of us that understand, gun control means one thing…being able to hit your target…period.

Best Wishes,
AJ

I can remember what I look up Joe so get over yourself. Unless I print any misinformation then your point is irrelevant.

eddiot,
That’s it? That’s all you have?

Please excuse me while I laugh hysterically…..

i think your right. they have been trying hard and harder to get gun laws past. when they wont something they help it along.remember olk. they know about him and let him do, it anyway.they know about9/11 on the plans that took down the towers.obama wonts the guns gone for two reason. one so he can maks him self a king, and let china take over. andtwo for marshel law. its coming people. hold on for dear life.hes making food prices highter,gas, our elec. out of sight. turning people into zonnbys, by laying around and not working. TIME TO READ THE WRITING ON THE WALL.

Maybe the U.N. should be working on a treaty for all nations to be giving up their military’s guns “first”! Yea, right. No, the problem is not the guns in the hands of the nation’s military’s, it must be the problem is guns in the hands of the nations citizens. Hmmm, I wonder if this Assad character would be willing to sign that treaty?

Obama doesn’t want to be king or enact Martial Law so please step back from your incoherent comment and stop drinking that insane right wing kool aid Charlene.

They seem to always select certain individuals for their false flags and you always notice how quiet and deposed they appear in court. Did he appear drugged? Yes he did. They wouldn’t want him to remember how it all began, now would they? He was another dupe like the underwear bomber who was led aboard that flight by someone in a black suit and right through the TSA checkpoint. It is an attack on our 2nd amendment and Obama will sign that treaty. If he gets another four years, America is toast. It’s just amazing that he gets any support from any people in America. I guess those individuals have drunk the coolaide for way too long. Of course, lamestream media is pushing the gun control agenda. If our guns are confiscated, we are sitting ducks.

Eddie says — “Obama doesn’t want to be king or enact Martial Law so please step back from your incoherent comment and stop drinking that insane right wing kool aid Charlene”.
As if Eddie knows what Obama wants.

The only chance we have, Blue, is if the Republican voters wise up and quit electing Big Government Republican Politicians. If the Republicans don’t offer up Small Government nominees, then vote Libertarian (the only Principled choice anyway). I would say the same about the Democrats, but the Democrat voters are too far gone, focused on other peoples’ money to the point of no return.
http://libertarianparty.org/

if it becomes necessary to form a militia, we militants will prefer high capacity mags.

The reason our forefathers gave us the right to bear arms is because they foresaw this type of tyranical government and in the Declaration of Independence it clearly states “That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute a new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.” It goes on, “But whena long train of abuses and usurpations, pursung invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Depotism, IT IS THEIR RIGHT, IT IS THEIR DUTY (meaning We The People) TO THROW OFF SUCH GOVERNMENT, AND TO PROVIDE NEW GUARDS FOR THEIR FUTURE SECURITY.” It would seem to me that that time has come to throw off this tyranical government and replace it…we hopefully can do this in November by voting the progressive liberal Democraps out….if that does not work then we may be forced into a revolution like the one against King George as it would seem that the RINOS and Democraps and President believe that they are KINGS.

Well Dave H why are you and others always claiming you know what Obama is thinking. Don’t be such a hypocrite especially since so many said 3 years ago that Obama was going to cancel the 2012 elections. It isn’t going to happen so quit stroking yourself.

Eddie says — “Well Dave H why are you and others always claiming you know what Obama is thinking. Don’t be such a hypocrite”.
I judge Obama by his actions, not his words, Eddie, because, like you, he cannot be trusted to be honest.

I thought from day 1, that this was a false flag. The thing that really gets me is how they’re not even trying very hard. It’s extraordinary in its timing! How convenient! Right before the small arms treaty was to be signed! But it didn’t work! People are waking up and recognizing the lengths our government will go to take away our rights and control us! Along with the outrage, gun sales skyrocketed! People knew or sensed that this was a false flag. Right from the start, witnesses said there were TWO people involved! This operation required a lot of money and a lot of explosives training! And the guy is so drugged that he doesn’t have any memory? Too many links to the federal government! How evil is a government that would carry out something like this?!? Time is growing short! The evil is winning! People need to wake up!

The UN treaty seems to be dead for the moment. However, vigilance is still necessary for you know it will rear its ugly head again in the future.

Oh, eddie47d, we’ve missed you so!

Compare the two photos. They are obviously not the same person.

http://www.facebook.com/#!/photo.php?fbid=506121949404705&set=p.506121949404705&type=1&theater

You are 100% right about those idiot gun-grabbers they are out to control everyone; as the old saying goes “An arm citizen is a free citizen, whereas an unarmed one is a SLAVE!”, I for one will go down fighting to defend the Constitution (which i swore to defend against alll enemies foreign and domestic in 1963) and the rights that it intails.

US COMBAT VETERAN: Vietanm ’68 – ’69; Doorgunner, 1st Cavalry Division (AM). “GO FIRST TEAM!” Retired in ’92 as an E-6 after serving honorably for over 30 years.

GOD BLESS THE US OF A and MAY SHE REIGN FOREVER!

It’s more than guns. About the same time this shooting happened, the LIBOR scandal hit the news. Robert Holmes is this guy’s dad. He is the chief investigator of these criminal bankers who are/were manipulating the interest rates charged. He was/is set to testify before Congress because of his knowledge–i.e., the chief investigator! Also, the senior lead scientist with the American Credit Score Company FICO!
Imagine the criminality involved in this thing.

What criminalality in the business world? Imagine that!

to Phideaux – I looked at the picture you provided from your link and I’m looking at the picture on this page in the article. Look at the left ears of each picture, everyone. The guy with the dark hair, his left ear is pointed at the top. The guy with the hot mess red hair dye, his left ear is not pointed and is wider and more flat. These are definitely two different guys. What the heck is going on here? Is there no depth to which our government will go? Apparently not.

Arm yourselves to the teeth, people. Something evil this way comes.

Whenever something goes wrong then the Government is at fault, the easy and fast way to blame others. Those who have guns will eventually use them, be it either for personal reasons like having had a bad day at work or out on the road, too much sunshine or alcohol or drugs consumed prior the crime was committed.
Especially the ones who are so quiet, brave, play online games and work on computers are my concern. Over here in Japan we have the same problems, especially during the summer season when it is hot and humid. People suddenly knife each other down. Later on the media reports that all of them were usually very quiet and excellent citizens, computer specialists, gamers online with no prior convictions. Those online games and war or violent games should be made unlawful. Those folks get too much into all of that and experience memory loss, lose contact with the reality and act and live like they still live inside the game. But who gets blamed ? –> of course, our Governments under the false-flag of new secret Gov- projects being tested on us.
Think about it !
Those folks who commit those crimes are usually shy and very weak, mentally unstable people who deserve medical treatment but in return never should be allowed to return to society till they die.
Have more faith into our Governments, it is not easy to govern in this current century.
Peace to Earth – 73 (Per aspera ad astra).

phideaux says:
“Compare the two photos. They are obviously not the same person.”

Good find Phideaux. The noses are completely different. The eyebrows don’t quite match. The ears (what we can see of them) do not quite match.

Georg O.P. Eschert says:
July 30, 2012 at 3:34 pm
Whenever something goes wrong then the Government is at fault, the easy and fast way to blame others. Those who have guns will eventually use them, be it either for personal reasons like having had a bad day at work or out on the road, too much sunshine or alcohol or drugs consumed prior the crime was committed.

_______________________________________________________________________

What absolute garbage. That comment is right out of the twisted liberal playbook.
Law abiding citizens who own guns…are still law abiding citizens.

George:

It sounds like Japan needs to implement Knife Control with a 3 day waiting periodd. Perhaps a phot ID KOID Card. Knife Owner Identification Card…

This operation in Colorado to rally anti gun pity will work on some people and not others… the same powers that did this are behind the election of the current prez…. the common people were duped into believing his lies and charm and swept him into power over them… yes, the American people are easily duped as those who run the country know. doubt if anyone will be able to change their policies and control over us…

It’s funny; The FIRST thought that came to my mind right after hearing of this incident was “Staged!” It too conventiently followed on the heels of this bogus UN gun treaty. So, these progressive fools want firearms ONLY in the hands of the military? HA! That didn’t work out too well for the victims of Nidal Hassan and the good folks of Ft Hood! Who brought Hassan down? NOT AN MP! A local policewoman, an average officer driving a patrol car! SHE answered the call that day, NOT a member of the military. She took a bullet in the process.
No disrespect to the military, and I support them fully, but it was NOT the military that resolved this crisis; it was a local mom who serves and protects every day.

I don’t understand your point. Because it was a policewoman and not a soldier who shot Hassan, that means ordinary citizens should walk around with military semi-automatic, large-clip or large magazine rifles? I don’t know which straw man you’re attacking, but the most anyone is proposing is banning these military-style weapons only useful in war or for a mass shooting. And there’s talk of limiting the clip size to maybe 10 rounds. That should be enough to stop anyone breaking into your house or to bring down that deer you just can’t wait to kill. No one is coming for your firearm despite the paranoid fantasies of many on this blog.

Nonsense. Why would anybody want to “stage” something to defeat the U.N Treaty when it had no chance of passage?The U.S. Senate had to ratify it. Before the vote in the U.N there were 51 U.S. Senators who had written a letter to Hilliary Clinton to not approve it and there were at least 57 out of 100 Senators who said they would vote against it.

“The FIRST thought that came to my mind right after hearing of this incident was “Staged!”

Damn. Whatta psycho. That was the FIRST thing that came in your mind?! Not “That’s horrible” or “Those poor people” or “I can’t imagine what that must’ve have been like”. But “Staged”? That’s possibly more disturbing than the shootings themselves.

So, let me see if I understand this. The government (Obama) let this kid loose on society so that they could pass some kind of gun law because F&F has not worked so far??? Wow what a theory. (Truth) What would we do without the insight and Cracker Jack reporting this page provides? I for one am glad we have this page to get our information (truth) from. Heaven help them (government people/ revenuers) if they try to pull off another moon landing and tell us it’s for real. Had it not been for (some/most) people like the ones on this page it would not be known that it was in fact Abraham Lincoln who shot John Wilkes Booth, or that john Lennon was in fact not a Beatle but a founding member of the Temptations.

Anybody with any common sense knows that Obama is for gun control. Illinois State Senator Obama in order to get the endorsement of Illinois police unions introduced Legislation in Illinois that Retired police officers and only Retired police officers would be allowed to carry concealed weapons. The U.N gun control treaty was dead on arrival at least for this year. The U.S. Senate had to ratify it with at least 51 votes and there were 51 Senators who wrote a letter to Secretary of State Clinton to not ratify it and at least 57 U.S. Senators who said they would vote against it. There was no chance of the U.S. being part of it so why would the Government try to “stage” the carnage in the theater with a non event?. According to the news there would have been more carnage but his magazine jammed. You would think that with at least a few months to prepare and Government support that this would have been checked etc,

What you see here is a bunch of clueless people that run the gambit of a Government conspiracy to the belief that if a person with a CW permit would have been present they could have taken out the shooter. There is absolutely no guaranty that just because a person is in possession of a CCW permit that they have even shot a gun.

All one has to do is read half the comments on this page and be information challenged (like many are) and by years end the president would have armed hit squads all over the country to kill Americans in order to get gun laws passed. OMG Lincoln did in fact shoot J W.Booth

I cannot believe there are still people that believe laws are the answer to this kind of thing. It is absolutely true that the shadow government can arrange things like this. There is a private special operations army that the people of the USA are unaware of. They are and have been the black ops arm of the Democrat Party since before the killing of the Kennedy brothers and that was their doing since the brothers went against the party for cleaning up corruption in government. After they were killed, Sen. Percy brought up the corruption thing again and a daughter was murdered by obviously well trained mystery types. The Democrat Party is out to destroy the Constitution of the USA and control all of the population. NO LAW will work as criminals at all levels IGNORE LAW! If you do not trust the person next to you, that is the work of the government in making everyone suspicious of everyone else. Get to know your neighbors and make a connection even if you disagree with their politics. It might be nice of them to stop a home invasion at your place.

Amen FreedomFighter; Has all the ear marks of a run away marxist government with the new Hitler in-charge. The first Hitler did it so this one is following right along with the same plans. I think it was John Adams that said, a armed man is a citizen, a unarmed man is a slave, America welcome to the marxist plantation of obozo and slave masters. Semper Fi Friend:

The govmn’t M/O is to create a diary from Lee Harvey Oswald, personal diary to the diagram that showed up after the fact. It is the only way they can create a history for a subject.

Your absolutly right this is a false flag! Since when does a murderer sit in prison for a day or so then show up in court druged to the point that it was so obvious. Where his accomplices worried that he might remember the incident or give clues to what happened? Something smells this administrations actions along with Bloombergs remarks are telling. Do not ignore these signs signs are meant to read, things happen for a reason 99.9% of the time.

lost respect.. When Lee Harvey Oswald murdered JF Kennedy and then Jack Ruby murdered Oswald it very much looked like a “false flag” op then (Ruby being better to control than Oswald was the theory). This guy we don’t know yet and we shouldn’t jump to conclusions. If this is also a “false flag” op we wont really know – either way. If it is, as it might have been with JFK, BK and Martin Luther King, I want to know what America are we living in??? This kid looks like he is disturbed but the eyes can tell, and his blood, if he is still on drugs. We just do not know yet about this nut…

The only conspiracy theory I ever really gave consideration to was the JFK assassination because none of the accepted versions explained Ruby. He was obviously not some super-patriot upset that his President had been killed. He owned a strip club and was sort of a wannabe gangster. I’ve seen the movies portraying him as everything from a loser the Mafia wouldn’t touch to the ultimate hit man. The truth seems to be closer to the pure wannabe gangster version. So the question remains – why did he kill Oswald?

Jeff… The part about the conspiracy where Ruby enters is interesting and a lot of food for the imagination. We may never know why he killed Oswald for maybe 150 years, if at all. .

I knew you conspiracy nuts would spin some tale to blame the shooting on Obama. You could write counter-histories blaming Obama and his ancestors for everything from the Lincoln assassination to the Lindbergh kidnapping to the Kennedy assassination. They all happened before he was born? A mere detail.

None of the things you mentioned have anything to do with Obama. I believe he is as much a puppet as the fellow with the orange/red hair. The ones behind this have a large agenda and it is the end of Liberty and the rights of Free Citizens. Foolish mortals, you enjoy the liberties of the gods yet value them not! You will come to value them too late. Obama is just good at speaking as long as the words are in front of him. He has no talent for governing. His speeches were good when others wrote them. Since he put in his own words they have become prattle.

Sorry. He was 15 months old when JFK was assassinated. But where was Barack, Sr.?

Nonsense. You are the one on Drugs.

you must be off your rocker to think something like that was done for alternative reasons

he is off his rocker anyway. The two biggest crime Cities in the U.S. have the strictest Gun controls and he thinks confiscating Guns is the answer. The NATO Arms Treaty for the U.S. was dead on arrival anyway.It had to be ratified by 51 of the 100 U.S. Senators and at least 57 weren’t going to do it. Only an Idiot would think it was staged when it wasn’t going to be approved anyway.

Maybe it was staged for a different reason. Weird that there is no mention in the media of his father’s role in the LIBOR fraud investigation. Weird that the judge has concealed evidence for reasons that it is not in the best interest of the country to have details. Weird. Lots of other weirdness too. If you were sufficiently curious you would have unanswered questions and perhaps, fewer ironclad answers.

Nonsense. What does Libor have to do with anything? Any attempt at Gun Control is “Political”. Libor is Economic Policy. Apples and Oranges. I mentioned when the News came out about Aurora that we would find that the shooter was unstable and that there would be evidence that people were aware of his behavior and did nothing. Just like the shooter In Arizona. The family of the shooter hired their own Lawyer and left their son with a Public Defender. They want nothing to do with him They have probably been estranged from him for a long time.

The first conspiracy of the NATO treaty didn’t work out for you so now its the Libor Conspiracy. The Government would not have staged anything with this Psycho. They would use somebody they could control and an unstable person does not fit the bill.

The inability to connect Aurora shooting defendant James Holmes’ father, Robert Holmes, LIBOR fraud investigation witness, to the case demonstrates a lack of intelligence. When trillions of dollars and charges of that magnitude are involved, witness tampering of an extreme nature are not inconceivable. In this case, gun control false flag may be cover for interrupting investigation of the international banking fraud responsible for taking down the western civilization economies for private gain. Robert Holmes could name names. Nonsense? I think not.

The only clueless one here is you. Again. Libor is Economic and has nothing to do with it. Explain why the Family hired a Lawyer for themselves but left him with a Public Defender?. If they were worried about some sort of retaliation then they would also have hired a Lawyer for him to make sure their son had the best chance of getting off etc. Again. If the Government was going to stage something like this they wouldn’t have hired somebody so unstable that they couldn’t control etc.

Somebody has to be an Idiot to think there is some connection between LIBOR and it. Then there is your Ignorance on Rome and Marx.
1. Read ” The Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire” by Gibbons
2. Read the “New Republic by Plato
3. Read the ” Price of Inequality” by Joseph Stiglitz.
Then get back to us with the knowledge.

If there is a conspiracy of such magnitude that James Holmes was drugged and brainwashed out of his PhD program and his accounts used and apartment booby-trapped so that others could frame him, demanding an explanation about why the parents got their own lawyer and left him with a public defender seems reasonable since he remains unable to assist in his defense, was reported to have no recollection and to believe he was still in a movie. I don’t think patsies are always hired but those who set him up appear to be quite professional. They certainly could fool you who cannot imagine that such a thing could happen. Not even a possibility. Good job.

Again. Nobody set him up. Holmes was unstable long before Aurora. If people are going to set somebody up then they want somebody they can control. They don’t use somebody unstable and unpredictable. Holmes was also talking the University Psychiatrist . Unless the Psychiatrist was in a conspiracy then there is no way that they could control what he said to the Psychiatrist .Holmes also told the Police about the “rigged” apartment.Why?
It has nothing to do with LIBOR. They have more than enough evidence regarding it. LIBOR is also Economic and has no relation whatever to the second amendment etc. Not only that but the NATO Arms Treaty was dead on arrival. It had to be ratified by the U.S. Senate by at least 51 of the 100 Senators and at least 57 were against it. Your excuse for the family leaving him with a Public Defender is also Bogus. If your reason held water then they would want the best defense and not a Public Defender.

I feel that you are just some moron that is a book worm and never did anything in the field. I bet you feel proud that you an encyclopedia. I’m so glad I have practical use of both book smarts and street smarts. Did it ever occur to you that even with Soviet Union gone you could probably ask students of today if they even know what USSR was and tell you they have no clue? Those who do know don’t understand what socialism or the atrocities that occurred there because our government won’t teach them. And you are trying to teach me a history lesson on useless information because that is what was written in the past what 25 years? hello, they’ve been planning this for far too long and you still have that veil over your eyes. You are only seeing what you want to see only what the government wants you to see and that is all. I learned more about what was going on in my own country from when I was stationed in the middle east watching their TVs. And you have the audacity to criticize me because you are pigheaded to think otherwise. Wow, I am amazed to see what more fecal matter will flow from your fingers on to my screen.

You are criticizing me?You have shown yourself to be an Idiot. The biggest Idiot on here.You have no answers so now your replies consist entirely of Insults with nothing to back them up. Your latest post regarding Red Beckman is a Joke. He was a cosponsor of the Charlatan Benson who was convicted of Fraud on the Internet regarding an absurd stance on the 16th Amendment of the U.S. Constitution. This is your authority on the U.S. Constitution. ??????You are a Joke when you claim that you are “street smart” and put all your practical experience to work You can’t defend your idiotic, infantile, and absurd comments so you attack me as a just a book worm etc. The problem for you is that you can’t defend your comments. With the Internet today one has all sorts of sources to research something and then be able to get from point A to point B with even a smattering of common sense. If the evidence existed to support your idiotic ramblings then you would have done it. Instead you just ignore my evidence and ramble on about yourself and what you think are accomplishments which are pretty hollow . You are a prime example of somebody who parrots a few views which you think are clever ans then when you can’t defend them claim that they don’t matter and that they have “street smarts”Pretty Pathetic..

You are an idiot yourself for not realizing you have been reverse engineered to post this much information about yourself. Thank you for playing. If you only knew half the [expletive deleted] I CAN’T talk about then maybe you would be able to read my posts. My goal has been achieved. I got you completely off the subject and thinking about random nonsense that you if you were educated should have seen. You sir, hook line and sinker.

So let me ask you this. Do you believe in having your 2nd amendment or do you want them to take it away?

I was moderated which means you will never know what I had posted. Talking to you is like talking to a brick wall. The difference is that wall defends nothing and protects nothing, its just there and does nothing to hinder or restrain free thought. Your advice if I can call it that sounds much like blah blah blah to me since you insist on being the insert for which ever government agency you work for with your book of responses ready for this site. Which probably explains why you can answer each post in a reasonable amount of time. You have answered all my questions about you without flinching or questioning it. Bravo for being blind. The question which still lingers is do you want them to take our second amendment from us? Having a CCW doesn’t mean anything really and it actually infringes on sovereign rights but I am sure you have a lot to say on that matter since you are the great and mighty wizard of OZ.

Are you really that stupid???Do you really read my posts or do you just ignore them since you aren’t competent enough to answer them? I have said from the start that having a CCW permit doesn’t make one trained and qualified and have went into great detail about it.. I have always stated that I am a staunch 2nd amendment defender. You can’t even get that right unless you are so stupid that you think that just because I don’t agree to your incoherent ramblings about a “staged” conspiracy which is a joke in itself.

The brick wall is you. Each and every point I have brought up in response to your absurd , childish and clueless ramblings have been ignored by you and you go on to a different and clueless scenario. .

So we are finished. I would rather watch paint dry on a wall then look at your nonsense and your great reading experience such as Red Beckman and his nonsense. Whenever I see your name in the heading then I will just delete it and no bother about your ramblings. Do some research .

Oh. I’m not party to your history rants. You are fairly convinced of your expertise. Unfortunately your historians have not adequately prepared you for covert strategy as would SunTzu, Machiaveli. You are blinded by presupposition and only consider possible that which supports your position. You have no more facts than the rest of us. Your mind is set. Weakness is unable to consider other possibilities. How do you know so much about James Holmes? What facts about the crime scene? I’ve seen pictures that you haven’t mentioned. Explain the second gas mask for me.

Again, There was no conspiracy. History has nothing to do with it. Every time you come up with some stupid conspiracy example that is challenged then you come up with another excuse. If you had any credible evidence then you wouldn’t have to keep coming up with infantile reasons. No competent person is going to set up somebody so unstable that they can’t control. Holmes was meeting with the University Psychiatrist long before the Aurora theater. There is no way they could control what was said to her. Holmes told the Police that his apartment was rigged. There is no relationship to LIBOR which is Economics. They also have plenty of evidence already. They aren’t really concerned about it. Nobody has been tried for the Financial mess to date and they aren’t even going to do it with Goldman Sachs. who was in the middle of it. There was no need to “stage” it because of the U.N. Treaty because it needed to be ratified by at least 51 of the 100 members in the Senate and at least 57 were going to vote against it so ti was dead on arrival. You need to grow up.

Nonsense.

If James Holmes is a patsy, instability obviously will not prevent him from being blamed. Being set up to take the blame is the definition of patsy. He was a PhD student in good standing until his last exam. Could he already have been under the influence of scopolamine in combination with hypnosis and being prepared by his handlers? How long had he been seeing the school psychiatrist? Do you consider PhD candidates likely for mental illness? As you say, the gun control angle on the UN small arms treaty was a false flag since it was “dead in the water” but a false flag to cover it’s intended impact on the LIBOR investigation, the real target was to shut up investigators, not just Robert Holmes, but all of them. Was it effective? And HOW! Prosecution was shut down even of those giant US financial corporations known to be right in the thick of it! As for James parents not being able to afford to provide a better lawyer for James, if they were of modest means (his mom an RN who aren’t high paid) his defense might be beyond their ability, especially if their own lawyer has made the recommendation. I know that these questions are beyond your or my ability to answer and I don’t expect either of us can prove beyond the others doubts, however, when you must resort to insult, name calling and hyperbolie, I will accept that as an admission that you cannot believe it possible but cannot disprove it with facts. So, can you explain the bloody footprints that led from theater nine exit past the car where James Holmes was found and on toward the corner of the building where another gas mask was found directly below the security camera? Bloody footprints that didn’t lead to James Holmes and an additional gas mask where a get away car could wait should be evidence worth consideration and which point to a set up if ignored. Eye witnesses and police dispatch audio confirmed belief in multiple perps but perhaps too quickly the single gunman was announced. I don’t think economics and politics are the same thing, but that is really just logical fallacy used for deception because crime, fraud and corruption can easily produce connections between them. Sort of an apple and orange salad.

Where did all those comments go?. Censoring on this site. Not for language or discourteous or seditious but for dangerous questions.

Hide the truth! Lie when it comes out. Delete it until you don’t see it anymore. The hiring has covered the crimes by firing or transferring anyone that knew the truth. We are on the edge of losing all of our rights and freedoms and if you don’t like it you’ll be “reeducated.”

Nonsense. There has been several Banks that have received a summons. One has to be really stupid to think that with all the people called to testify that somebody would stage an incident to try and intimidate one person. That is so Absurd and Idiotic that it boggles the mind that somebody would even suggest it. Then there s the fact that the U.N. treaty was dead on arrival. It had to be ratified by at least 51 of the 100 members in the Senate and at least 57 had stated that they would not ratify it. So it is even more absurd that somebody would stage such an incident to try and stop something that had no chance of being approved anyway.

Holmes is unstable. I stated right after the incident that it would come to light that Holmes would turn out to be unstable just like the shooter in Arizona and that there would be evidence and people aware of that behavior that did nothing about it. . This is another reason that he wouldn’t be used for such an incident.If people had reported this behavior as has happened before and he had been committed for observation then they would have to go through the motions of finding another candidate.,You keep coming up with this conspiracy nonsense and when it doesn’t work for you then you come up with another absurd excuse.

Maybe you should read before you write your response. It is clear you aren’t reading it. You just say the same thing and cite facts you draw from thin air. No sense trying to communicate with someone who doesn’t. Think of yourself the winner. LOL

Actually it needs a total of 67 to ratify from what I have been told. But 51 just sounds like something around 1/2 which if I’m not mistaken 3/4 is ratification in just about everything.

and what exactly would you consider the “other than” alternative reasons to be, eh shawn?

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eddie47d, you are either dumb as a bag of [expletive deleted], or intentionally dodging common sense and logic to support your leftist agenda.

The comment was made highlighting the absurdity of your initial statement cheerleading for the criminal in chief, and rightly so, as you make the statement as if the two of you are good friends. You attempt to turn the argument around on Dave H calling him a hypocrite implying his statement was based on the same fallacy as that of yourself.

The problem is, and it’s clear to those of us with common sense, that you have no sense of reality, no common sense, and absolutely no critical thinking skills. After a very brief examination of obama’s murky history, his dismal voting record as a senator (when he actually did vote other than “present” that is), the people with whom he as associated himself with as far back as college days, etc etc ad nausea. This brief glimpse offers enough insight that anyone with half a brain could conclude that more than enough evidence exists to justify the expression of concern in regard to obama being the administration to pull the trigger on martial law, far reaching gun control, or any number of other game changers. Now, comparing your statement in his defense; yours has no sliver of rationality to it. That is unless one were to believe that such a basis could be drawn from obama’s statements and speeches, ignoring anything else altogether. But even his own statements are often contradictory and riddled with misinformation and outright lies. This is of little consequence however, as anyone foolish enough to take anyone they don’t intimately know on their word contrary to mountains of data discrediting their word is likely not intelligent enough to see the fallacy in this situation.

So, eddie47d, I hope for your own sake that you really aren’t that mind-numbingly stupid and this is just your attempt to support your comrade at all costs. Because when the proverbial [expletive deleted] hits the fan, those that are in power will not give one fraction of a shit about you, even if they knew without a doubt you were a lifelong ardent supporter. They’ll likely just laugh in your face and thank you for your stupidity.

For the record, as I’ve become accustomed to the (ill)logic you and your comrades use in these type of exchanges, I’ll make it nice and clear that I’m not a “right winger” in the sense that I view your and yours as the only problem. I understand fully that the republicans are every bit as guilty as the democrats in the decline of our country and our society in general.

Here’s the difference: while it may be perfectly logical to call a percentage of republican voters useful idiots, and rightly associate them with pridefully supporting some of the worst scum in government, it can be observed more often than not that this same group outside of their ignorance in voting does not degrade society. It is not often they contribute directly to moral decline and the dissolution of the foundations of liberty, the constitution, or society as a whole.

The same cannot be said of the progressives. The group mentioned above votes as they do in a large part because they are lied to and deceived by those they support, while in so many cases involving the progressives their candidate will get a vote with their unconstitutional views right out in the open. More importantly, the liberal progressives contribute tremendously to the decline of society. From removing God from our educational institutions (like it or not, this country has a basis in Christian morals), to promoting deviant sexual behavior, and most importantly supporting pridefully the disarmament of the citizenry.

So, before you spew some unintelligible garbage professing your love for obama or progressive “enlightenment” or whatever else is rattling around in that head of yours, take the time to do yourself a favor and do a little homework. Because frankly, I don’t give a damn what you think or believe, nor should you give a damn what I think. The reality of the situation is however, your fate is in your own hands, and whether or not you care to see it, troubled times lie ahead. Good luck.

Never was it, “the right to keep and bear sporting goods”

Brain-dead much? Brainwashing hasn’t helped.

If Dave67 isn’t Flushy (thanks Opal) he is a Flushy impersenator

Nope, I just know the record of Obama, do you?

I also know the blathering of DaveH and his theoretical BS that doesn’t have much to do with the real world.

This article is a joke, its a joke based on the small arms treaty assertion, the idea that Obama wants to come and take your guns…

This article has everything to do to get the NRA more members and more gun sales. Nothing more.

Several words come to mind that desribe Dave67 – “troll”, “shill”, “lackey”

Dave67 = Axis Idiot

Dave67 says — “I also know the blathering of DaveH and his theoretical BS that doesn’t have much to do with the real world”.
Blathering? Isn’t that a Flashman word? Of course if it isn’t he just adds more evidence that lack of logic and facts isn’t just a Flashman thing, it’s a Progressive thing.
The “real world” is one of Leaders living high on their constituents backs. The “real world” is misinforming shills like Dave67 (Flashman?). The “real world” is Politicians supporting their Crony Capitalists at the expense of their competitors, their consumers, and the taxpayers. The “real world” is the failure of Socialistic countries throughout history. The “real world” is countries’ economies growing inversely to the size their Governments:
http://www.freetheworld.com/2011/reports/world/EFW2011_complete.pdf

If I was an ignorant thieving Progressive like Dave67, I wouldn’t wear it like a badge of honor.

LOL!!! DaveH is at it again…

Ok DaveH, tell me what leaders in the real world do not live well (off the people that do the work)

DaveH is a sad joke… Of Course he will have mises.org to prove his BS but maybe one day he will come and join us in reality.

JeffH:

Now, now. We must maintain “civils discourse”.

Dave67 is one of those who will be standing there scratching his south end and picking his nose goin’ Whaaa when TSHTF. Oh well, it will help put some chlorine into the gene pool….

Dave67… You do know you are opening yourself up for cry babies and name calling infant?.

When David Koch was the Libertarian Party’s vice-presidential candidate in the 1980 presidential election, partnering with presidential candidate Ed Clark The Clark–Koch team promised to abolish Social Security. So let’s not forget the Koch Klan will do what corporations want because they are corporations. Since then The Koch Klan gave up trying to run for Government and instead they are working on buying it up and that is evident with TP/GOP.

Of course the Koch Klan have spent millions to 1) get rid of unions 2) make sure Citizen’s United opinion goes their way so they their interests can spend millions and all undocumented to lobby congress for the right wing corporatist interests so laws in this country can be changes to further the wealth gap in this country”. The Koch Klan is the power behind Citizens United and groups like them and the Supreme Court betrayed us in finding in favor of Citizens United. Koch/TEA loved it. Actually a more reality based name for Citizens United would be Corporations United.

Getting rid of things that help people such as Social Security, Unions when they work right, any government agency that might cost the expenses of a corporation to rise because of safety and environmental needs and any President who will not work exclusively for the benefit of the Big Corporations and minimum wages are just not who the Koch Klan want around. TEA predecessor, The John Birch Society, hated President Eisenhower, calling him a Commie, and now they hate Obama for that reason, or is it also because he is black?

There are more but that is plenty for now. Oh, let’s not forget any industry with the potential to be in direct competition with any Koch enterprise.
The Koch Klan will use whatever tools they want to obtain their goals, now it is owning the Government, such as Romney.

Anyway Dave67. Be prepared to feel like you are in a kindergarten and don’t worry about having your feelings hurt here. Say what you have to say and let the childishness slide off your back and try not to respond with the name calling.

DaveH loves the Koch Brothers because they don’t need his MONEY!!

Another Idiot. News has been released that 49 of the 50 States have over two trillion in unfunded Liabilities that they can’t pay. In order to be considered Healthy they must be at least 80% Funded. The only State in this case is Wisconsin.

Hm. That is suspect. Where there’s smoke there’s fire. I think that’s pretty strong evidence that DaveH is a shill, not only for this site but mises.org!

Honesty, integrity, truth, freedom, educating, consistency, credibility and exposing big government shills, lackies, ignorant liberals and progressives like yourselves. After 3 + years here, that’s what I’ve seen out of DaveH and his track record of providing quality resources. He’s someone I would trust.

That’s my opinion but feel free to disagree and ridicule mises.org and DaveH himself because that’s all you have to bring to the table.

if there are no guns there is no one killed by guns , really simple. Only because your country has a huge problem with resposibility of gun ownership is this an issue. Canada has more guns per capital then the US we just dont kill each other with them, see where the problem is????

You need to lay off the K.A. The strictest Gun Controls in the U.S. are in Washington D.C. and Chicago Illinois which have the highest Crime rates. One of the people killed in Aurora Colorado in the theater was an Intern that was also involved in a Shooting in Canada. The problem is the Clueless such as yourself

Yes, the problem is corruption in politics. Good sense laws are killed and nonsense laws are passed. Rights come with responsibilities and that is not taught in the USA. Criminals will always be able to access guns. Even if they are made completely illegal everywhere in the world, there would be criminals in possession of guns. When assault weapons were banned here in the USA, drug smugglers (illegal drugs are banned here also) began to bring fully automatic weapons that had been scattered all over the Central and South American area by being brought through Cuba from Soviet Manufacture, to the USA for profits. Thus the huge out gunned police battles with bank robbers several years ago. Laws will never work on people that ignore laws. The only people that will be affected will be law abiding citizens. Criminals will continue to ignore laws. As go the leaders of a nation, so go the people. Corruption in government being cleaned up will result in a better citizenry of law abiding people.

WILLIAM WILEY BOLTON.
I love Canada, but I know why they have fewer shootings. They have more snow. Have you ever tried to shoot while standing on snow? (born in Massachusetts)
Delores Smith
Delores109@cox.net

Thanks Alondra. Nice job. Shawn needs to review history to see what happens when only the government has guns. There are more people in the US, too. If we had fewer people, we would have fewer crimes by count. Canada does not have the race baiting and agitation professionals trying to disunify their country although history shows some disagreement between French and English speaking populations. If we look more closely at the US, we can see that violence and use of guns is mostly in the inner city and areas dominated by the Democratic Party in their elections. Why this correlation is not explored is because of political correctness and charges of racism in spite of the factual truths.

There are mass graves around the world of those that were unarmed and were killed by armed thugs that were “liberating” them. History is full of the truth even though a lot of people don’t believe the truth. Many that support disarming the people will be some of the first killed for being so weak minded and putting their hands in the air when told to.

What would you say of me then. Pilot, fixed and rotor, Airframe and Powerplant Mechanic, Parachute Rigger, Jumpmaster, Explosives Ordnance Demolition Master, Open Water Diver, Weapons Master, Gunsmith, Covert Operations Engineer and this is a partial list. With 17 years of post High School Education and being a Veteran also and member of the American Legion that served in undercover work overseas for 11 years after the US Military. Instructed ROTC for the Third Army at University Level. Bud, being a Veteran does not admit you to situation rooms or planning meetings. You are under command and follow orders. Wherever you served I thank you for your service, but your experience only goes as far as you were allowed for your individual responsibility and I expect that was probably your weapon. Our group planned large ops, inserted, performed the mission, extracted and according to our non disclosure pacts never revealed the mission. I say the young fool was a puppet and performed as planned.

Nonsense

William Wiley Bolton -

You have had an incredible career deserving of gratitude and respect… wow!

I beg to disagree about the shooter, however.

Many, many years ago when I was in high school, a fellow student I had known since kindergarten calmly came to school one day and shot an English teacher for reasons know one was able to fathom. No conspiracy just a bad switch flipped. I suspect that the Colorado shooter was another like him. I remain open minded and willing to be convinced otherwise should evidence be presented.