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Obama’s ‘Victory’ Could Spell His Defeat

July 6, 2012 by  

Obama’s ‘Victory’ Could Spell His Defeat
UPI
Protesters and supporters gathered in front of the U.S. Supreme Court on the day the court handed down its ruling on Obamacare.

So Chief Justice John Roberts joined the liberal wing of the Supreme Court to decide that Obamacare, including the hugely unpopular “mandate,” is perfectly OK under the U.S. Constitution.

Now all three branches of the Federal government — the legislative, the executive and the judicial — have agreed to support the biggest expansion of government power in the history of this Republic. To say I’m aghast would be the understatement of the week.

Aghast, but not surprised. Let’s be honest: The Supreme Court has a lousy record of telling the Federal government it can’t do something. As far as the nine members of the Court are concerned, the 9th and 10th Amendments to the U.S. Constitution don’t exist.

Of course, Roberts had to twist the facts like a pretzel to justify the ruling. Barack Obama had insisted that Obamacare “absolutely” was  not a tax. The measure’s supporters in Congress said the same thing, over and over again.

Now comes the Supreme Court saying that of course it’s a tax. If it were to be judged based on the Commerce Clause or the Necessary and Proper Clause (two phrases in the Constitution that liberals love to use to justify every possible expansion of federal power), a majority of Court members said it would clearly be unConstitutional.

I’ll leave for another day speculation about why Roberts ruled as he did and gave himself the task of writing the majority opinion. Justices Anthony Kennedy, Antonin Scalia, Clarence Thomas and Samuel Alito dissented: “… to say that the Individual Mandate merely imposed a tax is not to interpret the statue but to rewrite it.”

Exactly. The bill’s defenders were desperately afraid that the Court would rule against Obamacare. When it didn’t, they were ecstatic.

But their glee won’t last for long. Two things are going to happen that will turn their rejoicing into anguish. One will occur later this year, the other further down the road.

The first will be massive Republican gains this fall. Consider: Before the Court’s ruling, some 55 percent to 60 percent of potential voters said they opposed Obamacare. Now that they know it will be shoved down their throats, they should be furious. Many of them are. Pollster Scott Rasmussen put it this way: “The conservative interest in the election was already much higher than that of moderates and liberals. It went up to really stratospheric levels right after the ruling.”

In the majority opinion, Roberts wrote something that will come back to haunt every liberal supporter of this odious law:

“We [the Court] possess neither the expertise nor the prerogative to make policy judgments. Those decisions are entrusted to our nation’s elected leaders, who can be thrown out of office if the people disagree with them. It is not our job to protect the people from the consequences of their political choices.”

Is there a single Democrat anywhere running for election this fall who will brag about foisting this massive tax increase on the country? I don’t think so. I predict we will see a ton of them “thrown out of office,” to quote the Chief Justice.

Fox News commentator Dick Morris put it this way: “So this really puts Obamacare front and center as the leading issue in the 2012 campaign. In a real sense it makes the 2012 campaign a carbon copy of the 2010 campaign — and we all know how that turned out.”

A lot of liberals are worried about this very thing. In a fundraising appeal on the eve of the Court’s decision, Ted Kennedy’s son Patrick predicted: “If the Court upholds the law, dangerous Tea Party extremists will go on a rampage.”

Don’t you just love the liberals’ scare tactics? Of course, no conservative will go on a rampage. The Tea Party types will do something the left will find much worse. They’ll vote — in larger numbers than ever before. And they’ll get a bunch of their friends and neighbors to do so as well.

Remember, the 2,300-page monstrosity that created Obamacare contains at least 21 tax increases. Estimates are that it costs taxpayers more than $800 billion. And get this: The majority of those increases will hit families earning less than $250,000 a year.

So much for Obama’s promise that his healthcare proposals would “never be purchased with [a] tax increase on middle-class families.” Tea Party favorite Sarah Palin used just four words to describe the situation: “Obama lies; freedom dies.”

When The Other Shoe Drops

What if I’m wrong and Republicans don’t enjoy enough legislative victories this year to repeal Obamacare?

If Obama wins re-election and the Democrats retain control of the Senate, I still think Obamacare will end up on the ash can of history. Here’s why.

Once Obamacare is fully in force and insurance companies are required to accept every possible applicant — no matter what pre-existing conditions they may have — you can bet that healthcare premiums will skyrocket.

When that happens, for many people it will be cheaper to simply pay the penalty rather than cough up the money for the premiums. After all, why shouldn’t they delay getting coverage until they actually need it? Just think what would happen if you could wait until your house was on fire to buy insurance on it. Who would be dumb enough to buy it before you needed it?

The only way to prevent this from happening is to make the penalties higher than the cost of insurance. But I don’t see that ever happening, even with a Congress filled with Nancy Pelosis and Harry Reids.

Margaret Thatcher once said, “Socialist governments traditionally do make a financial mess. They always run out of other people’s money. It’s quite a characteristic of them.”

That’s the same problem Obamacare will encounter. The faster the plan is put in place, the sooner it will collapse. Of course, in the meantime, the government will do everything in its power to keep us tax cows producing as much milk as possible. It won’t be pleasant having every last dollar it can grab squeezed out of us.

Rather than waiting until the iron bars are around your neck, locking you in place in the dairy barn, wouldn’t it be a good idea to accept Roberts’ challenge and get the law repealed?

The only way to do that is by replacing the people who passed it. Of course, that means starting in the White House. But that won’t be enough if the Democrats still control the Senate.

We’ve got our work cut out for us, folks. Better get busy.

Until next time, keep some powder dry.

–Chip Wood

Chip Wood

is the geopolitical editor of PersonalLiberty.com. He is the founder of Soundview Publications, in Atlanta, where he was also the host of an award-winning radio talk show for many years. He was the publisher of several bestselling books, including Crisis Investing by Doug Casey, None Dare Call It Conspiracy by Gary Allen and Larry Abraham and The War on Gold by Anthony Sutton. Chip is well known on the investment conference circuit where he has served as Master of Ceremonies for FreedomFest, The New Orleans Investment Conference, Sovereign Society, and The Atlanta Investment Conference.

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  • William 1

    The majority of those increases will hit families earning less than $250,000 a year.
    WELL OBAMA SAID “WE WOULDN’T——-see——- IT”. NO IT’ WILL COME IN THE BACK DOOR AND THAT’S WHAT THIS IS-A DECEPTIVE LIE BY OBAMA (offensive comment removed)THUS AS GOD SAYS -THEY ARE OF THEIR FATHER —THE DEVIL-WHO WAS A LIAR FROM THE BEGINNING AND A THIEF-FITS DOESN’T IT-AND A MURDER-YEP-THEY FIT THE PATTERN!!

    • http://PersonalLibertyDigest Gail Wilcox

      I think your comment is gross

  • Dave67

    LOL! Can anyone tell me why there is not a single country in the world that is moving to a private system like ours? 18 years ago Taiwanese officials came to this country to learn about which HC system works best and you know what they came away with? We are what NOT to do. Thanks to our farm subsidies, the employer-insurance company private HC system, we pay more for HC and get the 32nd ranked system for our trouble. We should have a public system because quality of care at affordable prices are not what private companies are good at. Private firms need to make money, and when the company you work for is the end user, the quality of care you get suffers and all it takes is 1 major illness and you can be bankrupt in this country.

    The right do love to talk about “family” values but when the rubber meets the road. They are a bunch of selfish corporatists. Jesus Christ would NEVER approve of this system we have in this country.

    Obama took a small step in the right direction after the right wing loons did NOTHING!!! You righties have no leg to stand on. You can lie about this HC law, say its a tax when it is not, you can say there are “death panels” when there are none… You can claim its too expensive when doing nothing as the GOP have done actually costs us more.

    People are now covered with pre-existing conditions.
    Kids can stay on their parents insurance until 26
    Insurance firms must use 80% of their premium intake on actual care or the people under their insurance gets either a refund or a reduction in premiums
    It maintains if you can afford insurance, you must get PRIVATE insurance to be part of the system (less freeloading)

    But hey, you righties are always pushing your fear and sky is falling agenda. Just know the real info is out there. You just need to seek it out. We need a public system based on prevention and an end to farm subsidies.

    • Doug

      Us Righties eh Dave? Come join Dave and the Communist party what Dave does not understand is where will the money come from Dave to pay for this health care Dave. I know you are probably 25 living on your dadies HC so all these people living off the government are all of a sudden going to have the money to pay this tax right Dave out of what their govt check Dave? There are no free rides Commie Dave once the money is gone Dave will see who survies and who parishes because they are hooked on the govt. tit. Would love to see Dave in a few years if you is still around. Go read up on the health care you brag about in Canada and Europe Dave you might not like how many people just don’t get the care they need to survive once they come down with cancer that is prevalent among you liberals thats why cancer came about it needs to grow in poluted enviroment the same thing that liberal are comprised of!

      • Dave67

        No Genius, 45 with two kids 1 of which I had to pay $4000 out of my own pocket because the corp insurance I have won’t pay for my my doctor prescribed for her digestive issues. care to come up with more BS.

        Let me ask you a simple question. Why are NO OTHER COUNTRIES IN THE WORLD moving to a great private system such as ours?

        Do you realize by doing nothing, it is actually more expensive? Of course not… Just repeat for BS talking points the corporatists have given you.

      • Doug

        And what coutry to do you want to live in genius Dave? Which one Dave then lets see how great their health care is! Oh and Dave I really don’t need the govt to take care of me and really don’t need all those Big Pharmy doctors to take care of me either Dave. You know why Dave Im a big boy and take care of my self along with my family on mostly natural health Dave. Just leave me a long Dave and if I need to see a doctor I will pick the doctor and be happy to pay for him to stich me up or set a bone but thats as far as I will go with these wonderful AMA doctors Dave. And gee Dave you know what created these wonderful drug pushing doctors the Govt Dave that’s right Dave they allowed the Big Pharmy to take over and teach these doctors BS ways to help people pushing the latest new drug. Try educate yourself on natural medicine Dave.

    • Dave67

      Doug,

      For most people in this country, all it takes is one major illness and besides the illness itself, you can be saddled with massive debt.

      I do not take pills of any kind and I am a big believer in using the bodies natural ability to fight disease. Trouble is, I have used our “wonderful” system and friends of mine had to declare bankruptcy because their 8 month old had a brain tumor and guess what? The Insurance company provided by the company she worked for did not cover the prescribed treatment by the doctor ok? It is contray to an insurance company’s interests to pay claims . That is the reality. They bring a 30% overhead number to the system which makes it more expensive then it needs to be

      You have NO EXPERIENCE with major illness and how badly the system works for most people. I want to make this country better. We can do better and we should, we should learn from the better HC systems of the world, not stick our heads in the sand about the reality of this system.

      The conservatives got the public option taken out. That is what we need along with removing farm subsidies on the food that contribute to higher obesity rates (fast food, snack foods in this country).

      That requires a deeper conversation that the bumpersticker crowd on the right is willing to have.

  • Big Woody

    Ok, Obama care is the law. All I want to know is how much WILL IT COST ME? All we hear is theory and suppositions. HOW MUCH WILL IT COST ME.? How much will it cost a family of 2 or 3 or 4 or 10? I want to see facts. I am sure there are charts like in the 1040 tax boooklets. When will we see these charts so we can plan our lives. I know the sky is falling and the end of the world is near, but until then. What will I have to pay? Does anybody out there have a clue or are we just going to sling mud until the IRS gets into our accounts and takes what they think is a FAIR amount?

    • Mike in MI

      Well-l-l-ll, Big Woody -
      That is going to be determined on an individual basis and according to merit.
      When they make you show your voter registration card if it reveals you are a member of the leftist ruling regime you will pay by a progressive income scale for your diagnosis code.
      However, if you are registered (or anyone fingers you) as an iconoclastic, revisionist, reactionary, responsible, wrong wing, churchy, educated or broadly defined “malcontent” you will be branded on the forehead and told to go home. If you thought you were sick before, that was nothing worth complaining about compared to the misery that you’ve got now.

      • macgyver1948

        Hay Mike in MI… That was pretty funny. OCare might be a bit individualized but it will not take into consideration party affiliation in any way. Are you trying to scare the righties who think only what they are told to think?

        Your comment was funny though, LOL..

  • Paula

    There’s one thing that I haven’t heard yet and I’d like to know the answer. The people who choose not to buy insurance and pay the fee instead, will they still be able to get free medical care by going to the emergency room? I always thought that hospitals cannot turn away people who need treatment. Does anybody know? If the law is that you have to buy medical insurance and you don’t, hopefully when they do go to the doctor, they’ll be required to pay their bill in full, not for the tax payers to continue to pay their bills for them.

    • http://teamlaw.net/TrusteeMessage.htm Jazzabelle

      Paula, I believe that the tax for not having insurance is meant to pay for medical care for those who don’t have insurance. If people without insurance still had to pay for all of their own care out-of-pocket, there would be no reason to penalize them with a tax.

      It’s just one more way that big-government social programs discourage personal responsibility, even for people who otherwise would save their money and be able to afford their health care out-of-pocket.

  • Rich

    Step by Step plans of Castro, Stalin, Lennin, Mao, Chavez to develop Communism

    1. Nationalize major sections of the economy, health care, industry, banks, student loans, etc

    2. Redistribut wealth

    3. discredit opposition, even press afraid to ask him a hard question

    4. censor opposing views

    5. control gun ownership -agreeing to sign onto UN ban treaty

    6. devlop a constabulary force to control civilian population – its in the health care bill just as powerful as the miitary

    7. control the press/propaganda

    8. take over agriculture or private land

    See anything to worry about yet/

    • Dave67

      So when wealthy interests lobby congress and gets their agenda passed that puts more money in their pockets alone… That is what Rich?

    • Dave Kirby

      I actually do see something to worry about.

      1. Unrestrained capitalism. If it weren’t for anti monopoly and other business restricting laws, free enterprise would be easier to find in China. Privatization of education and prisons. If schools are run for the bottom line, there will be multitudes left behind. And private prisons are paid by the inmate. Who will get out for good behavior? Think about it.

      2. Redistribute wealth. It’s happening. The rich are getting a bigger and bigger piece of the pie; and that’s just what they can’t hide in foreign accounts.

      3.Discredit opposition. When you own the media (est. 90 per cent of media is corporate owned. Nearly all television broadcasting) Outside of a few liberal shows, look at the content of what is reported and the timing of the reports. The mainstream media is certainly not liberal. It’s just that the farther right keeps saying over and over to make their own opinions seem less “out there.”

      4. See number 3. if anyone has the power to censure, it’s the money.

      5. Gun control. Use the media for fear mongering coercing the easily convinced to buy more guns.

      6. The constabulary is in place more for the haves that the have-nots. Although everyone benefits from a fairly managed police force. Have you seen any corporate officers who were mostly responsible for sending the country into a recession put in jail? How about any corporations? After all they are people.

      7. See number 3.

      8. Corporations, albeit some small ones, own 99 percent of the agriculture producing lands. They grow food, robo-food, fuel, cancer and other diseases.

      9. Besides having the media and the politicians, the conservatives also have the religious leaders who exercise control over their subjects. And Jesus said; Make all the money you can and if you have to screw your brother to do it, it’s ok, they are probably just liberals anyway.

      • Doug

        Boy I must be real dumb to think when I watch the ABC, NBC and CBS’s that these are really conservative things they are saying. Hell who would have know anybody for a little Alinksky? Dave you might want want to pull your head out of the poop shoot because you vision is obvisouly clouded with crap!

      • Dead Right

        The difference is Liberals demand laws to enforce their beliefs. Free Enterprisers try to sell their beliefs. What you believe colors how you perceive. So how do you know your lens is correct? You ascribe greed to conservatives. I as a conservative ascribe envy to liberalism. Greed is self regulating as others always come along and punish greed with a lower price. Envy though is a close-to-the-vest grievance when looking at others, by looking at disparate numbers and making accusations. Instead of taking responsibility and creating value to sell to others. Thank you for the insight into the way you view the world. It is why you will find it hard to sell your ideas here. Good luck, hope the lifestyle works out for you.

  • chester

    rv, if you are that worried about the “Number of the Beast”, why, may I ask, do you have a social security number. You can legally neither buy nor sell, nor hold a job, without that number, or a number issued in lieu of. THINK before you speak, then think again just to be sure you know what you are about to say.

    • uvuvuv

      aha, but you can vote

    • http://teamlaw.net/TrusteeMessage.htm Jazzabelle

      The SSN may well turn out to be the mark of the beast. But now, it is still possible to buy, sell, work, and travel without one–if you know how.

      http://teamlawforum.net/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=126

      • Greg

        And get free money too, just become an illegal alien. Also, don’t you think we should give Obummer more time? I think 25 to life sounds about right.

  • Ken

    Although I agree with Chip on his points, I do not believe this next election can be won and I also think that it will be our last. There is a massive cheating process being put in place by the current regime and even if that doesn’t work I don’t think Obama will step down. I believe a small militia of Black Panthers and some union members will enforce any attempts to remove him from office. Most so called Americans are sheeps and cows and will not be willing to make the sacrifice it will take to remove this dictator. The Marxist have been working on taking over this country for 150 years. Once America goes the rest of the world will fall easily. The brass ring is within their grasp. They will not let go of it easily.

  • rv

    A number assigned to each person, “the mark of the beast” is coming soon. The real choice is yours to make. Do you want to buy or sale? Think of the compulsory health care and the taxes needed to fund it. I’m sure the “one world government” or “new world order” is upon us.

    • http://teamlaw.net/TrusteeMessage.htm Jazzabelle
    • boyscout

      Reference the number “666″ into Hebrew which uses letters to represent numerical value and one arrives at the result of “www.” Sorry, didn’t mean to side track.

      • macgyver1948

        boyscout – Since you are prepared you should know this from your comment. Please translate the English letter “w” into its Hebrew alphabet equivalent.

        I would like to learn. I do know that ’666′ is a reference for the minor beast as described by prophecy in the Hebrew bible. You are correct when you say “Reference the number “666″ into Hebrew which uses letters to represent numerical value”. Actually they, as with many ancient cultures, did not have a number system so they used their alphabet for math. The first letter = 1, the second letter = 2 and so on.

        We know that the Prophet was Danial and he tells us what God told him in Danial 8:9 & 11:31. We know that it was a greater beast who orders, according to Danial’s prophecy, the lessor beast to destroy the great city. We also know that that great city Danial speaks of is Jerusalem and the lessor beast will destroy the great city by fire and kill all who isn’t of his minions.

        And we know that in the year 70 AD the Emperor of Rome ordered his Son, General Titus, to totally destroy Jerusalem as a punish for the havoc the Hebrew rebellion caused until that year. The Romans finally defeated the rebels, or insurgents, in 70 AD. So, General Titus, being a good general and son, followed daddy’s orders. Jerusalem went up in fire and it was the end of days for the inhabitants, from Danial’s prophetic messages. Does any of this sound familiar from another bible that came later?

        Jerusalem was destroyed, the Temple, that is second Hebrew Temple, was destroyed and, as the emperor commanded, all the Religious artifacts were sent to Rome.

        By the way, General Titus, the name Titus, equals 666 in the Hebrew alphabet. The year 70 AD was about 37 years after Jesus was executed. The Prophecy came true in the year 70 AD. Jesus, as a rabbi when he was alive, taught it as Danial told us, it was his job as a Rabbi.

        So please fill in the gaps and please include that translation for the English letter “w” into its Hebrew alphabet equivalent. I would like to learn. Thank you. :-) .
        888
        Your comment boyscout – “Reference the number “666″ into Hebrew which uses letters to represent numerical value and one arrives at the result of “www.” Sorry, didn’t mean to side track.”

      • Jim Cumber

        The “666″ reference in the Bible, is a misidentification of a MUSLIM CONFESSION OF FAITH! See the Codex Vaticanis… The “666″ or “Mark of the Beast” is the “MUSLIM CONFESSION OF FAITH,” as recognized and reported by former Muslim terrorist, Walid Shoebat when he read the New Testament in the original Greek!…

  • Patriot

    Forget about this bill it is over, we will deal with this later. Let’s start discussing all the characters that surround Obama, everything will be on the table. People, how did a no nothing community organizer become President and has a net worth of over 10 million, I am certain he did not do what most of us do, that is EARN it! The first evil person is that phony/baloney Axelrod, he has the nerve to say that “Romney is the most secretive person to run for President, you see it is the same rudimentary game you played in school, if you are the real imposter you blame the other guy. Well Axelrod it ain’t gonna work this time around. Axelrod is a member of the US Communist party and Obama’s White House gave his firm millions of dollars to push a propaganda campaign for ObamaCare, which by the way is against the law. When a society starts to breakdown the leaders start acting in a lawless way, lets’ put the whole cabal in prison, let’s start with Holder then move to Obama, what did he know and when did he know it?

  • David Watkins

    Why don’t they do medical insurance like life insurance. You’re healthy enough at 20-30-40 to not pay. You probably have other things like school loans, new house, etc. to eat up your income. But you should pay more when you DO take out insurance at 40-50 years old. Maybe you can better afford it then. Pre-existing conditions? Certainly if you didn’t know it — that shouldn’t prevent you from getting insurance. If you DID know, you should pay more. Don’t know how that would work out in practice.

    • Patriot

      David, it has nothing to do with logic, it is all about controlling the individual. They could care less about making you healthier, wake up this is why most of us felt betrayed last week and are sick about the decision. The system we had in place was the best in the world, the needy already had healthcare it was and is Medicaid, which was working fine. A couple a tweaks to the system was all that was needed, but no, they had to fundamentally change the whole system, you get it now!

      • chester

        Patriot, can tell you have little if any experience with Medicaid. True, it supplies medical care to the poorest, those at or below fifty percent of poverty level income. For those of us just a few dollars above that cutoff, we have the OPTION of giving the state back every cent we make above that fifty percent of poverty level, or subsisting on our little dab of income and praying nothing major happens to run up medical bills we have no way of paying. Take a really hard look at that program you are so proud of before you recommend it to anyone as a replacement for what Obamacare has offered them.

      • Patriot

        Chester, you just proved my point. Medicaid is a government run system and as you say is it crap and you think another government program is the answer. You know the definition of insanity right?

      • Don_in_DC

        You are right Patriot. The sad part is that the people recognize there are problems and they try hard to find a solution but when they turn to government they can only expect it to be used to pass a law that is then implemented ineffectively and that is if you are lucky.

        It’s really time we decapitated the monster that exists now. I just wonder how much blood has to be spilled before we can get control again.

  • Lane

    To boil down the discussion, the Obamacare bill will cost approximately $2400 per person living legally in the United States based on the $800B estimate in the article. In other words, a family of 4 will be charged $9,600 just to exist. That equates to 12% of the gross income of families making $80,000 per year in household income. In other words, since the the average family currently pays 17% of their gross income in taxes, they will now pay nearly 30% of that income in taxes. For families currently struggling to pay their bills, this is a crippling blow which will radiate out to all parts of the economy. It is slavery by way of economic chains well beyond what the government has managed to do through devaluation of the currency. I creates serfdom. Without disposable income in the economic era, there is no real freedom. There will be no more “getting ahead”, as we will have to expend the majority of our efforts just to meet the tax burden. Mobility will be a thing of the past. Americans must see this law repealed not just because of the Constitutional ramifications, but because it will single handedly destroy our economy and our freedom. For the left however, I commend them on an ingeneous method of fully controlling the population without use of military weapons. With this law, they won’t need them.

    • Flashy

      For kicks…just what taxes will increase with the HCRA ? Specifically…no generalizations twisted out of reality. (bet this one goes unanswered …lol)

      • RichE

        Flashy,
        How’d you know it’d go unanswered?

      • Paul Wells

        Flashy: Try selling a house and having a 3.8% tax added, to fund your beloved HCRA. Try that for starters, and once you absorb that, check into the law. There are plenty more tax increases. Your comments are spoken like someone who “hasn’t read the bill yet, so we can see what’s in it”, a masterpiece of true statesmanship, unequaled in the hallowed halls of the House! LOL

      • http://boblivingstonpl.wordpress.com Bob Livingston

        Dear Flashy,

        You write: “For kicks…just what taxes will increase with the HCRA ? Specifically…no generalizations twisted out of reality.” http://www.atr.org/comprehensive-list-tax-hikes-obamacare-a5758

        You write: “(bet this one goes unanswered …lol)” You lose.

        Best wishes,
        Bob

      • Brad
      • RichE

        Who’s left to pay the tax?
        “Exemptions for religious objectors, undocumented immigrants, prisoners, those earning less than the poverty line, members of Indian tribes, and hardship cases (determined by HHS)”

      • Brad

        Hey Flashy,

        Mr. Lingston and I came up with the same answer and used two different sourses, where’s the rebuttal or does the cat got your tongue???

      • Brad

        Mr. Livingston, sorry for my spelling.

      • Flashy

        Mr. Livingstone…I was asking Lane, but thank you for stepping up. Bet’s still on. BTW…are you ever going to get around to answering what the purpose of business is? Or are we still waiting for an answer by that poster which you kept insisting you would hold off before stating your views (yet stating I was in error when i stepped up with the purpose of business).?

        As to your response on taxes being raised and the link provided.

        They are talking about the .09% income tax increase on incomes over $200,000, they are talking about the tanning tax, they are talking about the tax on medical equipment… Only they’ve inflated that to be taxes on EVERYONE not just those it is actually on, or more importantly they’ve inverted it to be taxes on people making under $175,000. In other words, as i asked…just what ‘taxes’ are affected. I’d say it raises reveneue on folks earning well over Middle Class income. It counts caps and elimination of deductions as ‘raising taxes”.

        Then the Conservative call is that it is the “largest tax increase in history”. False, so very very false. Even if you take the dediuctions as tax increases (which they aren’t), it still doesn’t even make a bl;ip on the meter of history.

        Now, add up the amounts of revenue expected to be raised raising minimal rates in some areas. Don’t count the elimination of deductions..those aren’t “raising taxes”. Spread it out over ten years as the Anti-American forces somehow fail to do yet are calculating it as in a lump sum increase.

        Wow…not much of any increase is there?

        Jeesh…and the world will end because of … ?

      • http://boblivingstonpl.wordpress.com Bob Livingston

        Dear Flashy,

        You write: “are you ever going to get around to answering what the purpose of business is?” I have answered it. The purpose of a business is to make money.

        You write: “Bet’s still on.” Great. What’d I win?

        You write: “Wow…not much of any increase is there?” You fail to consider the trickle down effect of the tax increases. As Heritage notes: “This isn’t the only way Obamacare increases taxes for middle-income and low-income Americans. As tax policy expert Curtis Dubay explains, “Several of the taxes… will ultimately be passed on to [middle-income families] through higher prices. These include the fees on medical device manufacturers, pharmaceutical companies, and health insurance companies and the new tax on tanning services.” http://blog.heritage.org/2012/05/01/what-obamacares-tax-hikes-mean-for-all-americans-setting-the-record-straight/ And by the way, the tax increase is $500 billion over 10 years. Sounds like a lot to me.

        Best wishes,
        Bob

      • Don_in_DC

        Flashy I got one that others didn’t mention…HCRA increases government spending and we are broke. They already raided Social Security, there isn’t a lot of places to get more income. We already couldn’t handle the liabilities we had on our plate even BEFORE we raided social security, now we added more after we stole from it. We don’t even have a control on the year to year spending, everyone is just ignoring the 17 trillion of debt, the 100-200 trillion in liabilities. The deficit is like 1.5 trillion a year. Next year if they don’t add more spending we can expect 18.5 trillion, the year after that 20 trillion and that is a very conservative estimate since the numbers just keep rising as the economy tanks. There is not even a plan to TRY and reduce these numbers. You can expect that by 2016 we will have a debt of 25-35 trillion and again no plan to address it.

        Here is why I hate liberals. You keep spending money on entitlements after we are broke.

        Here is why I hate conservatives. You keep spending money on wars after we are broke.

        I’ll be in another country while you are working out the details.

  • Tazio2013

    More white wing wacko nonsense from the Chipster! And for those few of you PLD readers interested in a more fair and balanced POV, you will want to read the following by Brandon Smith:

    The Socialization Of America Is Economically Impossible

    There are other powers at work in this world; powers that have the ability to play both sides of the political spectrum. The money elite have been wielding the false left/right paradigm for centuries, and to great effect. Whether socialism or corporatism prevails, they are the final victors, and the game continues onward…

    Knowing this fact, I find that my reactions to the entire Obamacare debate rather muddled. Really, I see the whole event as a kind of circus, a mirage, a distraction. Perhaps it is because I am first and foremost an economic analyst, and when looking at Obamacare and socialization in general, I see no tangibility. I see no threat beyond what we as Americans already face. Let me explain…

    We-have-no-money. Therefore, the debate over universal socialized medicine is pointless. It is mathematically and economically impossible to implement. What the Supreme Court says on the subject of socialization certainly matters in terms of principle, and they have failed Americans spectacularly in that respect (or served their globalist sugar-daddies well; however you want to look at it). But, in terms of finance, the Supreme Court’s shocking decision means nothing.

    One of Ron Paul’s primary arguments against the ongoing wars in the Middle East has always been that whether one agrees with these conflicts or not is irrelevant. The U.S. does not have the means to fund them. Eventually, we will break the bank and the dollar to maintain our presence in the region, and thus, the wars WILL end, one way or another. The same philosophy goes for Obamacare and every other socializing program presented in America.

    http://www.activistpost.com/2012/07/socialization-of-america-is.html

    • http://boblivingstonpl.wordpress.com Bob Livingston

      Dear Tazio2013,

      That article first ran here on Tuesday.

      http://personalliberty.com/2012/07/03/the-socialization-of-america-is-economically-impossible/

      Best wishes,
      Bob

    • Don_in_DC

      Agreed Tazio. I don’t care what laws they pass at this point because we can’t afford any of them. Once they attack the money which is inevitable it will force change. No government has ever been able to survive prolonged and excessive taxes because people will revolt. While most of you are throwing around statistics to defend your party it won’t matter…in the end you either find the solution that people can live with or you go too far and they revolt to fix the problem.

      It is sad to me that Ron Paul can’t get more respect than he does. It only shows that the people aren’t ready and therefore don’t deserve to be saved. So keep adding your entitlements and trying to redistribute the wealth and you will only make it happen faster. Nothing is going to solve this debt issue as long as nobody is even trying to solve it, the rest is smoke and mirrors. The entitlements will end, the wars will too. Watching the way things usually happen in the world we will be selling nukes to North Korea and Iran to try and make a buck while pushing grandma over a cliff. We inherited the best system of government in the history of the world but I don’t think we will keep it much longer. Everything is a cycle so I guess hope and freedom will always exist in some way but democracy is losing its best vehicle to date. All signs point to Communism being the power in the next era. Maybe they can learn something from our mistakes.

  • Kelly Clover

    It should never be forgotten that judges are supposed to be impartial umpires. They are not
    supposed to be partisan political hacks. There are many people who want judges to be
    what they are not supposed to be. While I disagree with significant parts of the Affordable
    Care Act, I find the GOP agenda to be worse. Republicans were out to kill the ACA from
    day one out of blind partisanship. They were not willing to seek common ground with the
    Democrats. They have yet to offer a reasonable alternative that attempts to achieve most
    of what the ACA tries to accomplish. If Republicans get their way, insurance companies
    will be free to cancel coverage in the middle of a costly illness or injury. They will be free
    to deny coverage to those with known medical problems. Millions of children and young
    adults who recently gained coverage under ACA will lose it. There will be no restraints on
    excessive administrative costs. I’m sick and tired of only hearing what Republicans oppose.
    They need to offer practical solutions that make sense to those who aren’t ideological
    zealots.

    • Concerned Montanan

      You are SO wrong! The Republicans presented numerous bills, other ways to cut healthcare costs, but all were killed by Reid. We need healthcare reform, yes, but NOT controlled by federal government. In the first place, the Constitution does not give the federal government that duty or authority.Remember the Clintons’ – right away presented federal health care, but it went on the ballot to be voted on by the people and was soundly voted down. Secondly, the Marxist (or Communist) Manifesto states that one way to control the people is to control healthcare. Google it – see for yourself.

      • Robert Smith

        “Secondly, the Marxist (or Communist) Manifesto states that one way to control the people is to control healthcare.”

        And you would rather give that control to Corportracy and the fat cat 1%!

        I’ll take my chances with the people.

        Rob

      • Flashy

        OK Concerned, I’m calling you on that one. Just what exactly did the GOP propose to “control healthcare costs” ? BTW…never read the Communist manifesto have you …

    • Rosemary

      Say it with me PROPAGANDA! Talking Points! The same stuff manufactured by the left and written everywhere. Tell us your thoughts withour your Pelosi Paper!

    • Vigilant

      Kelly Clover says of the GOP, “They have yet to offer a reasonable alternative that attempts to achieve most of what the ACA tries to accomplish.”

      And what is it that the “ACA tries to accomplish?” Confiscatory taxation, wealth redistribution, creation of universal dependency upon government, massive loss of qualified doctors, and continued lack of control over malpractice suits and defensive medicine.

  • John R. Howell

    We are not “royally and irreversibility screwed”. Mitt romney stated on the day after the
    Supreme Court’s ruling, that if elected he will seek to repeal Obamacare on his first day of office.
    John R. Howell

    • Robert Smith

      Just like he did in Massachusetts!

      Good plan there ROFL…

      Rob

      • Concerned Montanan

        How much reading/research do you do? I heard Romney say on TV before the last election that, although Mass. had a state healthcare program, he would never recommend it as a federal program.
        If you read into the facts of the Mass. healthcare program, it was not all Romney.
        There are successful state programs, I believe Minnesota is one, but haven’t looked into it enough to say this with surety.
        Again Rob, you have to realize that Obamacare is not a health program, it is a power grab.

      • Robert Smith

        Yes, grabbing power from the 1% and giving it back to the people.

        Why would you trust your health care to someone in India knowing what’s best for you?

        Rob

      • Flashy

        Concerned Montana:

        omney may have stated that yesterday, but he certainly wasn’t stating that in 2008 when he ran against McCain…and he is on record as stating it as a National Blueprint up until the 2010 elections when he became a ‘born again’ Conservative and began making all sorts of backtracking, hemming, hawing and outright denials of what he was on record as.

      • Vigilant

        RS says, “Yes, grabbing power from the 1% and giving it back to the people.”

        No, son, you’re talking about some other program. With 20+ brand new taxes on EVERYONE, the 1% will suffer much less than the middle class.

        While the ACA is admittedly a wealth rdedistribution program (see Dr. Berwick’s comments), it’s Joe Bagadonuts who will pay the most. Sorry, RS, your “hate the rich” mantra gets no purchase here.

      • Don_in_DC

        Everyone wants to attack the 1% but you consider how impossible that really is? They can afford experts to avoid taxes, they can invest elsewhere to avoid taxes, they can buy assets and charge you rent to use them. Even if you could take it away what is left, the middle class then becomes the rich class and you will demonize them. Eventually this has to lead to the poor and non-working people being taxed to support the government. There is no other solution. Many people work to pay mortgages for their house so your solution to that is to remove the house and that is somehow helping them?? You have assets and you have debt. The rich have more assets than debt. The poor have more debt than assets. It doesn’t mean that you become a demon when you have more assets than debt but you are a saint when you don’t. How does attacking them help you in any way except short term? Even if you take all the assets and wipe away all the debt the cycle continues. I don’t see how anyone can logically come to any other conclusion.

      • Victor J. Fedrizzi

        The conclusion is that rich peiople are crooks.

      • macgyver1948

        Don_in_DC … Yep, logically there very few other conclusions to jump into. But there are conclusions people are told to jump into and that they should avoid the history and the logic and the whole truth. Taking stuff out of context and editing it so their followers can see ‘it has to be true’ works very well with people who will not think for themselves.

        Personally I do not just listen to my side. I look for the issue or the bill and read it and then decide if I like it, if it will work for most of us. I could still be wrong since I am not an economics, for example, expert but I try and not allow others to think for me. And I also respect others points of view because I feel if I do not I do not deserve any respect for my own.

        It is amazing how quickly some people will tell you how wrong you are if you do not agree with them, :-) .

      • Dave Kirby

        No one is advocating attacking the 1% and taking anything from them. I, personally would like to see them pay more taxes on their income. It is because of this great country that they have been able to make their wealth in relative safety and security. The fact is, the rich get more from the country e.g. police and military protection. They simply have more to protect. I mean, seriously, who benefits from the police not allowing the “occupation” of “good” neighborhoods.

      • macgyver1948

        Dave Kirby.. I too do not want to attack the so-called 1%. It is not money that is evil, it is the intent that got the money and how it is used that can be evil…

        Personally I do not want, for myself, hand outs or welfare. I want to make it on my own as I always have. I actually do not want stuff I did not earn given to me, well, unless it is the Lotteries or PCH, that I will always take, :-) . I am a proud liberal and I do not like it when Liberal haters define me. They are generally wrong about me.

        I want total equity in so many things for all of us. I do not want the wealthy to pay more taxes then they should. I would like to see that they are brought back to the tax levels they were before their buddy GW gave them those gifts. I say gifts because they were supposed to be used as incentives to create jobs and other nce things to help the country. But instead they use the bush gifts as savings so there were not much in the ways of job creating or helpful to us. The Oil Company execs loved bushy as they too were not at all requited along with all the big receiptiants of his gifts.

        I agree with you when you say the rich get more from the country, they pay more. It’s nice to be rich, I’m told. The rich can afford much better tax advice so they can pay less taxes than the rest of us tax payers. When it came out that Warren Buffet paid less taxes than his secretary I decided right then and there I needed to be a billionaire. LOL

        Seriously, I want equity and fairness and what we get from the government should not be so costly. I want the government to spend our money more wisely and morally and to shrink itself but with compassion and prudence. Some things need to be repeated.

        I do not want to hear any more crap about non-breathing, no heart entities are people too. The founders fought against that non-sense and we should too. How much more to we need to hear from Romney to be convinced he is ONLY for the big corporations and we are just in the way. I do not know who is best for the Oval Office job but it very much isn’t Romney unless you are a Koch-like person….

    • rv

      We conservatives can vote in mass in November to elect a President and a Congress who can repeal Obamacare!

      • nc

        RV, were you a part of the group that gave us george bush and the repubican controlled congress that in the end only 26% of your fellow Americans agreed was a good deal?

      • Robert Smith

        “We conservatives can vote in mass in November to elect a President and a Congress who can repeal Obamacare!”

        There aren’t enough of you.

        Americans know what’s best for America. Religious nuts, teabaggers, the 1% are either in it for the greed or they are supporting (against their own self interest) those who are.

        Rob

      • JeffH

        nc is the Repeat Talking Parrot, the most obedient bird you can buy! Just tell nc any phrase that has conservative, Bush or Republican in it, and he’ll repeats it back to anyone. Practice your ignorant doublespek! Interrogate conservatives with double in-effectiveness! nc comes with his own hanging perch and a liberal list of Jr. Bush and Republican talking points, batteries not included.

      • Vigilant

        JeffH, what do you expect from a 76 year old senile operative? Parroting is all of which he is capable, and the last original thought he had was in 1946.

    • wsk

      I hope you are correct. However, Mitt (of whom I will vote for) says he will repeal and replace Obamacare. Replace it with what? Another government program? ……and it absolutely will not stop, ever……

      • RichE

        Because of the mandate, the insurance companies won’t allow Mitt to do anything but flap his jaws.

    • Karolyn

      Right! And on his second day, he will rise the dead.

      • Rosemary

        He can de-fund and sign State waivers. In the time from now until elections, his staff needs to write this bill down to say 75 pages. There is a much better way to insure those who have no insurance and those who have pre-existing conditions, without putting it on the backs of the middle class and seniors. Also it will not cost nearly what this monsterous bill does.

  • Flashy

    LOL…I was wondering when the twisted attacks on the recently upheld HCRA would begin to reach levels of jaw dropping absurdities. Wonder no longer.

    “Consider: Before the Court’s ruling, some 55 percent to 60 percent of potential voters said they opposed Obamacare”

    Actually…when asked about each portion standing alone, the public supports most of the provisions of the HCRA. From a small farmer trade association website:
    • Children can stay on their parents’ health plans until age 26;
    • Help with prescription drug coverage for Medicare recipients;
    • No co-pay or deductible on preventative services such as mammograms and colonoscopies;
    • At least 80 percent of insurance premium dollars must be spent on health care;
    • Insurance premium increases of 10 percent or more must be publicly justified;
    • Lifetime limits on health benefits are removed, annual limits are restricted and are scheduled to be banned by 2014;
    • New coverage options created for individuals and children with pre-existing conditions.

    Consider people who will begin in this next month receiving rebate checks for being overcharged premiums as the insurance companies go “oops” and send back monies for charging excessive premiums this past year (some reports have the amounts averaging over $200.00). I am sure they all will agree the HCRA is evil and they’ll send back those monies being so grateful for being overcharged.

    Consider the state health insurance trade centers allowing people to shop and compare apples to apples and force competition on insurance offerings. (Excepting those states with GOP governors who were negligent and decided not to begin the process).

    When polled, it was the mandate that people opposed. A mandate which was falsely defined as being ‘forced upon everyone”…when, in fact, it affects few in number. Those who could afford insurance but decided freeloading upon us all was a better way to go.

    And, it will be a non-issue in the campaign as sure s heck Romney and the GOP won’t want to talk about it. HA! Can you imagine them being asked ‘well..just what would you change and take from us in the HCRA ?”

    Even here, unless it’s some warped twisted ranting about the mandate, few if any will propose weakening the benefits we receive from the Act.

    • DavidL

      I share your point of view on all of this. This law is already slowing the cost curve in healthcare and, according to the CBO, will reduce the deficit over the long term. The penalty, assessment, tax penalty, I don’t care what it’s called, is ONLY imposed on the freeloaders. You know, the people who are stealing from the rest of us and forcing us to pay higher premiums.

    • Doug

      And Flushy come on flushy what does one have to do to keep a turd like you from coming back hell I been to the bathroom 3 times already today yet you keep floating back up to this forum. Flushy go back to the sewers where you belong with the rest of the turds like you!

      • Karolyn

        Ah, such wisdom and intelligence displayed. I’m in awe!

      • Flashy

        Karolyn…at least we know Doug either has regular bowel movements or suffering from intestinal issues requiring frequent reading times…

    • wsk

      He who is willing to sacrifice freedom for security deserves neither….

    • Greg

      You missed a few of the benefits there like the death tax: determining that it would not be cost effecient to save an older persons life by giving the treatment they may need. And lets not forget that illegals get all the benefits we do without paying a penny into it. Do you want me to go on?

      • Daniel from TN

        I’ll go on; with items that are actually in ObamaCare.
        1. MANDATORY euthanasia counseling when you reach a certain age. This means you will be taught at what point in life you should allow yourself to die, or just commit suicide.
        2. A lifetime dollar limit on health care. After that it will be a felony if you get any more health care, even if you pay for it out of your pocket.
        3. Your health records become public information. (Yes, it’s actually in the law. Hidden, but there.)
        I could continue but I encourage you to go to a library and read the law for yourself, as I did. While I was reading it I thought I was reading a Stephen King horror novel. I’ll bet money you will think the same.

    • Vigilant

      Flashy says, “And, it will be a non-issue in the campaign as sure s heck Romney and the GOP won’t want to talk about it. HA! Can you imagine them being asked ‘well..just what would you change and take from us in the HCRA ?”

      Dream on, dude. That’s wishful thinking if I’ve ever seen it.

      The PACs are already wisely attacking it. It will become a centerpiece of the remaining months of the campaign. You have a VERY short memory of you don’t remember the mid term elections, yeah, THOSE elections in which Obamacare was a rallying point that threw more Dems out of statehouses, governorships and Congress than anything in recent memory.

      Justice Roberts, wittingly or unwittingly, gave the GOP the election year present they needed. “…and the GOP won’t want to talk about it.” We will see, my friend, we will see.

      • Daniel from TN

        The establishment GOP (RINOS) will not say a word, but the TEA Party GOP will shout it from the rooftops. Guess who’s gonna get elected!?!?!?

      • Daniel from TN

        Romney also stated he would issue a waiver to all 50, not 57, states so it would not create problems for the states while waiting for its repeal.

    • Ted G

      Well O.K. lets take those ten pages out of over 2000 and agree to start with them after we repeal the rest.

  • http://yahoo Shirley Leger

    People, read aout the FEMA camps. Look it up on the internet. It will shock you. We are going to be ?????

    • Robert Smith

      We already have a very high inmate population in America. It’s disproportionately skewed against minorities.

      Jail is now a BIG BUSINESS and apparently the extreme right wants to keep feeding it.

      Why should a kid go to jail over a joint?

      Rob

      • Doug

        And why is that Robert you mean living on the Demorat (Communist) plantation where you are given enough food and money to buy drugs and encouraged to not want to be free and provide for yourself a true life makes you want to commit crimes? Lets see been giving out money as long as we have been fighting the war on drugs how all that going. And now you are going to tell me that because of conservatives. Nice try I don’t give a crap what you put in your body its your body as long as you don’t harm someone else do what ever you want. That is what being a conservative is Robert my boy. Where as Liberals, Progressives and Communist and Marxist want to control every aspect of your life!

      • uvuvuv

        that would include asians? you have to be specific.

      • Karolyn

        Doug – It is quite evident that not all conservatives have your views. All you have to do is look back in the archives of the website to see the numerous occasions of conservatives railing against drugs and backing that “war.”

      • JeffH

        Karolyn, ever heard of a neo-con? Oh that’s right, you don’t like labels.

      • Jim Cumber

        As I read the various comments, I am reminded of the title of Jesse Ventura’s new book: “Democrips and Rebloodlicans.” The point, here, is that there is MORE than enough “blame” to go around, and around, and around…to BOTH of the “Lame Stream” Political Parties, and to ALL Government Departments! In short, the US Government has become what the US Marines call (in “polite” company), ONE GIGANTIC, “CHARLIE FOXTROT!”

    • Karolyn

      You’re late to the game with that one, Shirley. That old tune has been sung for a long time already. Conspiracy theories abound. Have fun with it!

  • rv

    Justice Roberts saved the court’s face while delivering to the American people the chance to repeal Obama care through their elected officials.

  • hpw3506

    good article but so much more can be said about how devastating obamacare will be to so many people

    • Robert Smith

      Not to mention but the lives it will save.

      Not to mention the families who won’t be crushed by catastrophic medical expenses.

      Rob

      • Karen

        What you fail to see is the shortage of doctors choosing other fields because of Obamacare which will lead to longer wait times for patients, patients dying because they couldnt get in soon enough in some cases, astronomical health insurance premiums to cover losses from catastrophic illnesses and on and on. Look at the failure of healthcare in Europe and England. That s what we can expect.

      • CaptRCG

        Smith – being a liberal & stupid you would not understand what it is like in the real world – but being a liberal you should be rewarded – there are only 2 ways to reward a liberal – they are as follows #1 – a long prison sentence – #2 – lethal injection – either one would fit you to a tee – have a great day – wake up stupid – So Mote it Be

      • Concerned Montanan

        But, Rob, bureaucrats in Washington DC are going to decide whose life is worth saving. And as to families being crushed by medical expenses, these will increase, not decrease. And their will be an internal army sent out to make sure that doctors (those that are left) and clinics stick by the rules and not save you if the bureaucrats decided you were not worth it. I am not being a scaremonger – what some have been scoffed at for calling them death panels IS in Obamacare, as well as the internal army (brown shirts).Obamacare is a socialist power grab (right out of the Marxist Manifesto) not a consideration of anyone’s health.

      • trw

        rob the poor have always been covered by medicade you have been duped by the goverment again there is nothing wrong with our health care make the insurance companys sell directly to employees and not employers and you will put competetion in the market and prices will go down

      • Robert Smith

        concerned says: “bureaucrats in Washington DC are going to decide whose life is worth saving. ”

        Better an American making decisions about my health care than some fat cat lackey in India answering the phone and denying heath car so he can afford to put gas in his guzzler.

        Why do you trust Americans less than the 1% who only want your money?

        Rob

      • wsk

        I think the Death Panels ( the buerocrats that will determine who gets what health care ) wikk take care of the old age problem.

      • Rosemary

        Robert, Since you think this is the best thing since canned Spam, should you not allow yourself to take on more of the ObamaTax deficit? In case you have not seen the deficit numbers go and look. We are broke, broke, broke. You are promoting policy that ensures we will become a Banana Republic! Two cities in Ca., have filed bankruptcy. Are you wishing for an epidemic? Who ever said Obama was Robin Hood. Steal from those who have to pay for those who do not? The people who love OmbamaTax are the same people who pay no federal tax, at this rate explain how the middle class will ever survive please???

      • Nadzieja Batki

        If someone acrues those catastrophic medical expenses you don’t believe that that patient’s life will be shortened. The all benevolent government health care will go to the ends of the earth for every dollar to keep them alive. Right now even catastrophic cases get taken care of.
        Spend a day in ERs and find out how neglectful patients are of caring for their own health.Why should they do that as someone else will be responsible for them.
        The longer you post the more lacking of common sense you show yourself.

    • CHRISTOPHER ALLEN HORTON

      “hpw3506,”

      HOW CAN MORE BE SAID WHEN NO ONE SEEMS TO KNOW WHAT IS IN IT?

      CHRISTOPHER ALLEN HORTON

  • wsk

    You’re dreaming! Once a government program is started, it never goes away. It enlarges, transforms, costs more, becomes more intrusive, but it absolutely will not stop -ever.
    Sounds like “The Terminator ” movies. We are royally and irreversibly screwed.

    • Robert Smith

      Isn’t that the right wing way? Once you get pregnant, you STAY pregnant.

      Rob

      • bryan downs

        not if your a dem,just get an abortion our new insurance will pay for it

      • http://boblivingstonpl.wordpress.com Bob Livingston

        Dear Robert Smith,

        I believe you have set a new record for yourself. Before 8 a.m. you have already blasphemed and brought God into a discussion that had nothing to do with religion and abortion into a discussion that had nothing to do with reproductive rights.

        Best wishes,
        Bob

      • brett

        gee bob, inquiring about a biblical passage is not blasphemy, abortion is a medical procedure, and barb leiss brought god into the subject at 8:29am.

      • Nadzieja Batki

        brett, what part of Robert Smith’s body do you come from, the part that is the waste disposal?

      • JeffH

        Nadzieja, brett’s an eddie clone.

    • Dave Kirby

      Dems don’t get more abortions than Repubs. Honestly, do you see more out of wedlock/unwanted children running around the macmansions than in poorer neighborhoods? No. The Repubs just like to talk against abortion hoping, knowing that the Dems will defend women’s rights and keep the christian bully pulpits active.

      • CHRISTOPHER ALLEN HORTON

        “Dave Kirby,”

        GREAT COMMENTS.

        CHRISTOPHER ALLEN HORTON

    • Victor J. Fedrizzi

      We definitelly are screwed, but the sad news of the matter is that the majority of people don*t use their own minds. They listen to Fox news for Republicans and are brainwashed by Congressmen controlled by Lobbyists, Karl Rove and other big money donators to Romney and Congress. I believie what is rtight or wrong in my own mind. Guess what?, I am registered as a Reppublican, but I am strictlly against the Republicans failing to cooperate with the President for a number of years to create jobs and improve the economy. Then theyhave the nerve to blame the slow economic and job recovery on the President when they are the ones to blame. They are paid for doing nothing , but fight against the Democrats and President. Their chief goal is just to get ride of lthe President. They don*t do anything for the people who elected them in office. So , the Repulbicans won*t get my vote. I am mad at them.

      • Rosemary

        Victor, DO some homework. #1 The lack of leadership is the number issue. #2 The House passed several hundred bills to address many problems of the Nation. #3 The Senate and Mr. Harry Reid have not allowed many of those House passed bills to go to the floor for a vote. To lay all blame at the hands of one party, lets the other two branches off the hook. The division of our Country is misdirected. The anger should be at the Government, not citizens against citizens. Who are we paying for all the grid lock? Independent Voter

      • Victor J. Fedrizzi

        Like I said, Congress is all screwed up and you aren*t using your own mind. Where your misjudgement comes from , I don*t know. Lobbyists and Big Monely Control Congress and the Elections so they are the ones to blame.

  • http://gravatar.com/bearily bearilywilson

    Now all we need to do is exile the liberals….ALL of them….to Kenya; never to return to U.S. soil; for treason against America and the U.S. Constitution; so that we can have a FREE society once again without anyone telling us how to conduct our lives!

    • Robert Smith

      Sounds to me like a thriteen year old ready to run away from home…

      Rob

      • Karen

        You sound like an unemployed recent college grad still living at home w Mom amd Dad. You have a long road ahead.

      • Paul Wells

        What Karen said. RS, you sound like you haven’t experienced life on your own at all, judging from your very naive comments.

      • Robert Smith

        Hmmmmmm, perhaps I am misguided.

        Aren’t christians supposed to take care of their brothers (and sisters)?

        Maybe I got that part wrong. Please correct me if so.

        Rob

      • wsk

        Yes, Robert
        Christians are supposed to help others. We just don’t need the government to do it for us.

      • Vigilant

        “Sounds to me like a thriteen year old ready to run away from home…”

        Aptly spoken by someone with a mental age of 13.

      • http://gravatar.com/bychoosing Jay

        Not perhaps, you are, misguided.

    • RichE

      bearilywilson,
      You just don’t get it, throwing people overboard won’t fix the holes in the boat. Just what would happen if you got rid of all the entire liberal? Would corruption vanish? Would the blue laws of Sunday return?

      • JeffH

        Socialist governments traditionally do make a financial mess. They always run out of other people’s money.

      • RichE

        Who winds up with the money?

      • JeffH

        DUH! The politicians and their cronies!

      • Mike in MI

        Hey-y-y-y RichE, – Socialists, Communists, NAZIs, Statists and Obamanites, etc. always run out of OTHER people’s money to spend.
        Ever wonder how President Ronald Reagan destroyed the United Soviet Socialist’s Republic? He just quit sending them our aid money, free food and technology.
        Liberals, without somebody else to afford them a living, make pretty good fertilizer. Recognizing this, when in authority they try desperately (maybe…disparately..?) hard to make sure to pass laws that assure others of their sort a free ride on the backs of the “Middle Class”. ( To them the “Middle Class” is anyone with a business, an industrious heart, ambition, skills, a “can-do” attitude, personal responsibility and money he earned from effort and brains.) Taxes work quite nicely to wrest any loose change the Libs decide they have a “better” use for…short of outright thievery.
        If they don’t happen to be in power they use identity theft, highway robbery, cat burglary or others of a number of very stealthy ways to get Granny to give over her Social Security check or take some kids’ lunch money.
        Anyway, when Reagan stopped the flow of our capitalistic profits to the ravenous Russian Bear it shriveled up and went poofth-th-t. When all the world’s liberals saw it they screamed in horror and changed the subject. They knew if the wod ever got out about what had occurred people might never again vote for a Democrassass.

    • nc

      Bearily, there are a lot of women in this country VERY concerned about how conservatives will tell them how to run their lives. Other citizens who find the conservatives wanting to tell them they can’t express there feeling for the ones they love as a FREE AMERICAN when it does no harm to any other American!
      Please tell me the last “true conservative” who has lead this country to it’s posidtion as the leading country in the world. If you are thinking Reagan, remember he raised taxes and tripled the national debt without a war to finance and said his UNION LEADING days were among his happiest! Not real “true conservative” values as I read them expressed here!!

      • Kevin

        Bull he tripled that national debt , what you and others keep forgetting is he doubled the Intake into the treasury, Congress still spent it faster than he made it.

        He cut taxes not tripled him, yes he trusted Congress once and they nailed him.

        A fool can look at the Numbers and see the truth, remember Jimmy and the 21% inflation I do.
        He also got conned on immigration.

      • Vigilant

        “Bearily, there are a lot of women in this country VERY concerned about how conservatives will tell them how to run their lives.”

        nc (nut case), the 76 year old paid Democratic opposition research operative, you’re on the wrong page of Democrat talking points. The “War on Women” propaganda (ending up as a real loser for Obama) is on page 42 of the talking points. We’re now on page 55.

        Lose your place?

    • Karolyn

      So then you could have Christian fascism like in Islam? If everybody thought the same, it would be an awfully boring world. Is that what you would like? Well, I guess boring, closeminded people wouldn’t mind that.

    • Nadzieja Batki

      Robert Smith the simple answer is NO.
      We are not to take care of the moochers, the parasites, the loafers, the predators even if they tell us that we are obligated to help them.God never put such an obligation on anyone.
      Are you hoping that all people can be conned anymore as you Lefties have been doing for generations?

  • rv

    maybe Chief Justice Roberts is smarter than we think.

    • Old Sarge

      You may have hit it right on. Roberts may have dealt a fatal blow to Obamacare in his “approval” of its Constitutionality. Here is the count: The act is an overreach of the Commerce Clause, vote 9-0. The act is an overreach of the Necessary and Proper Clause, vote 9-0.

      That seems pretty slick. Would you have imagined the entire court finding the act Unconstitutional if relying on the Commerce and/or the Necessary and Proper Clauses? Yet those were the sum and total of the government’s arguments. This is now a clear, bright and shining line drawn wide in the sand that tells Congress to back off any expansion of those powers.

      He also got a 7-2 decision on the States Rights issues under the Tenth Amendment saying that the Federal Government cannot penalize states for not abiding by its wishes by means of withdrawing funds. That sets many such practices at severe risk and prevents further attempts to do so. In my humble opinion, the states are going to have a field day suing for already sequestered funds in education, transportation and other areas. Federally mandated speed limits set by the EPA under threat of withdrawal of funds? Goodbye.

      The idea of getting the liberal faction of the court to agree to tell Obama and Congress that, no matter what you call it, a tax is a tax and don’t try to BS us is a cup of the fresh water. Further, his opinion is so stated that it gives clear warning that if the regulators or Congress try to make the tax a punitive amount then it, too, will be Unconstitutional since a penalty for not engaging in commerce is Unconstitutional. That is a 9-0 decision.

      This could be one for the history books as a powerful move to reign in the Federal Government’s expansion.

      • Vigilant

        “Would you have imagined the entire court finding the act Unconstitutional if relying on the Commerce and/or the Necessary and Proper Clauses? Yet those were the sum and total of the government’s arguments.”

        Not quite. The administration was so desperate to cover all possible angles of Constitutionality that the Solicitor General actually DID use the power of Congress to tax argument.

    • Mike in MI

      Old Sarge -
      That’s so unfathomably involuted, convoluted and revoluted it might even be right. Hope to God it is. (laughing uproariously I am, I am)
      That’s so funny!!! Even the three lib “ladies” on the court were so hyper-excited about taxing the people more they forgot who they were and actually voted correctly on something that holds high and strengthens the Constitution. Do you realize how huge that is? I can hardly believe it…The Devil stepped on his own dick again. Incredible. I’ll be laughing for a week if you’ve got it right.

  • Bob

    I cant believe PELOSI SAID “we have to pass this bill,so we will know whats in it,t”is she stupid??and why didnt somebody stand up,and say thats a crock of crap? I personally think ALL Senators and Congressman (and women) should be replaced,what a bunch of IDIOTS we have in Washington,Starting at the top !!!

    • MAP

      PELOSI SAID “we have to pass this bill,so we will know whats in it,t”is she stupid??
      She is a far-left nutcase and statist. Yep, she’s stupid alright, but too far into ourter space to know it. Voters that would put her into a position of power are the very, very stupid ones.

      • Flashy

        MAP…I have a question for ya. When are you going to write something worthwhile and of substance?

      • phideaux

        “MAP…I have a question for ya. When are you going to write something worthwhile and of substance?”

        I would say about the third comment after you write “something worthwhile and of substance” flashy.

      • Victor J. Fedrizzi

        I have a question for you? Why don*t you have anything sensible to say? You say the President shouldn*t be in office. I say you don*t need to be here in the United States. Your word can go in the garbage can. Amen

    • jopa

      Bob; When she said “We will know what’s in it” what she was saying is you will also know what she already knows.That’s where the “We” comes in.I can pretty much assume you didn’t read the bill and she did.

      • Paul Wells

        Jopa, that’s a load of crap. That bill was revised so many times, NO ONE had a chance to read it in it’s entirety. Pelosi was way too busy conducting midnight arm twisting meetings, and excluding R’s from any engagement in the process! I believe you are not up “to snuff” in your understanding of how full of crap she is!

      • Don_in_DC

        Jopa, let’s assume you are right. Well now it is passed and we know what is in it. We know it is several new taxes as confirmed by SCOTUS. Now what?

    • http://BarbaraLeiss Barbara Leiss

      The end is near. I do hope I am not alive to see the downfall of America the brave and beautiful. No matter who gets into office the die is cast. The bible shows that the only way we will be saved is by God’s intervention. this take over is far out of contrioll for us mortals to reverse the situation. May God save us All.

      • Robert Smith

        “I do hope I am not alive to see the downfall of America the brave and beautiful.”

        Without health care your wish is more likley.

        Ohhhhhhhh! I get it! Christian Scientists don’t need medical care.

        Rob

      • http://gravatar.com/bychoosing Jay

        Without you, Robert, there will be less stupid-pollution.

      • Don_in_DC

        Sorry but God doesn’t fix governments…people do. They usually have to use a lot of force to do it too.

        Your religion is your own choice in life so it isn’t for me to correct you. It is frustrating how you leave everything in God’s hands though. If it turns around then you give him the credit and if it doesn’t then it was part of a bigger plan. The only areas I can consider where it seemed God really saved a government was Japan when it didn’t get owned by the Chinese on two separate naval attacks. God hasn’t done much since then to help them though. Might be better to plan on humans doing their part and hope that God supports them.

      • macgyver1948

        Don_in_DC … I would like to throw in my two cents to your comment responding to Barbara Leiss. You are right when you say “Your religion is your own choice in life so it isn’t for me to correct you”.

        I agree and I wish people wouldn’t tell those of my religion, or any other for that matter, are going to hell because we do not believe what they do. And I wish people would stop going into my bible and redefine the scriptures to justify whatever but so many do.

        With that, and this is only my theory because how could I know?, I want to say something from my bible concerning this issue.
        God made it clear He didn’t want human Governments because He knew how greedy and corrupt humans can be, especially when they are in control. But the Isrealites continued to ask for a king so they could better deal and barter with neighboring cultures. Eventually God gave in and said Saul should be King but my thinking is perhaps God was acting as a concerned parent in this case and He wanted us to learn the lesson on our own.

        It is amazing that was maybe 2600 years ago and we still haven’t learned how to treat each other. It is as though we may read our bibles but we really haven’t taken a look. We should at least learn from human history since we aren’t from the bibles.

    • Old Sarge

      She said it. The video is on You Tube. It has been shown by, not only FOX, but CNN as well. All you have to do is call it up.

    • http://peresonallibertydigest.. gottaplenty

      Bb What is there about nasty Nancy tha made it so unbelievable abot her statement She hasnt said anything yet that made any sense

    • http://none Jude

      I think they do not vote in what they believe in the vote the majority of their party wants regardless if they think it is right or wrong. They have to vote their party line not what is best for our country. I have worked all my life and sick and tired to taking care of those who do not make an effort to be responsible for themselves. Now they have classed drug/alcohol addiction as a disease ( they now get our tax dollars to support the habit) That is what it is a habit. A disease is something you have no control over. Drugs/alchol is a choice and if they really want to quit there is help for them. Also against the illegals using our tax dollars, for housing, food stamps, medical, if old enough Soc. Sec and SSI. and taking our jobs. Obama has got to go. I am not a die hard supporter of Romney but will vote for him and not split up the votes to allow Obama to have a second term, he has destroyed our country enough.

      • Judy

        I am so tired of hearing you people putting all of the economies woes on Obama. Have you forgotten what Bush did to the country for 8 years? I don’t know how you think that Obama can fix everything in four years what Bush did in 8!!!!! What gives you the idea that Romney will do better? He’s Republican! Those who are down and out financially want to be able to put food on the table and a roof over their heads.My husband worked in the Federal Prison system for 24 years. Everyone thought that he was making ‘Big Bucks’ because he worked for the Federal Government. NOT!! I am sure that there are people who would like to see if Obama can undo what Bush did. We come from a long family of hard workers and we try to make do the best that we can. I am willing to give Obama another chance to try to make things right for the country.How would you feel if say you were put in a position to take over a job that your predecessor had messed up for a long period of time and you were expected to clean up the mess in half the time it took for the trouble to start?

      • Rosemary

        Please enlighten us, just how was Obama “put in the position to take over a job that your predecessor had messed up for a long period of time and you were expected to clean up the mess in half the time it took for the trouble to start?” Obama said himself “if I don’t have the deficit cut in half by the end of my first term I don’t deserve a second.” No one drafted him for the position of President. No one forced him to make that promise. No one forced him to lie about ObamaCare which is a tax, Obama tax.

      • Vigilant

        Judy says, “I am sure that there are people who would like to see if Obama can undo what Bush did.”

        Wake up, Judy. He’s had 41 months to “undo” Bush’s work, and the situation’s WORSE than under Bush, MUCH worse. Moreover, you don’t fight fire with fire. Obama’s fatal flaw is that he CONTINUED the Bush bailouts and giveaways, and did it at a much accelerated pace.

        And you can blame a Democratic Congress for causing the recession. Many videos are available showing Republicans warning Democrats of the impending housing bubble disaster, while Democrats said “don’t worry, be happy, Fannie and Freddie are financially sound.”

  • Vigilant

    Mr. Wood says, “If Obama wins re-election and the Democrats retain control of the Senate, I still think Obamacare will end up on the ash can of history.”

    That may be so, but the important thing is this: If Obamacare and out of control spending are allowed to continue at this pace, THE NATION “will end up on the ash can of history.”
    Obama and the Democrat majority in the Senate must be replaced before the country will have any hope of survival.

    • Robert Smith

      “If Obamacare and out of control spending are allowed to continue at this pace, THE NATION “will end up on the ash can of history.””

      Really? I’m proud to be part of a nation that takes care of its own.

      The selfish among us are the ones who are working against society and fracturing out country.

      Rob

      • Karen

        Bet you’re unemployed on food stamps thinking everyone owes you a free lifestyle upgrade.

      • Vigilant

        RS, my statement is impeccably correct. You want to see what reckless social spending results in, just look at Europe. If you can’t see that, you are blind.

        Then you say, “Really? I’m proud to be part of a nation that takes care of its own.”

        The nation took care if its own long before socialism became de rigeur. Sloth and indolence were not rewarded under a free enterprise system, as they are under wealth redistribution schemes. American Capitalism has been more successful in history, and made more people prosperous, than any socialist system ever did. You could at least provide some substantiation for your argument, but you can’t, because it doesn’t exist.

        “The selfish among us are the ones who are working against society and fracturing out country.”

        You’re absolutely right. And we need to vote their leftist backsides out of office in November.

        Rs, you’re both mathematically challenged vis a vis the state of finances in this country, and historically ignorant as to the societies that have prospered the most.

      • Jack2

        Well said karen

      • Dorian Douglas

        Robert Smith (& others)

        You say you “are proud of a nation that takes care of its own”. We all should be.

        But why government??? Just give your share to the people in need (including illegals, if you are so inclined), as I & millions of others do. Cut out the “middle man (government)”. That’s what the “greedy rich” do (at last accounting, about 80% of all giving), all the while paying over 60% of all fed income taxes. What % do you give (rhetorical)????

        And how about letting us keep money we pay all of our working lives for SS & Medicare (every dime of which I put in has been stolen by government!!!), and let us manage our own money for health care & retirement??????

        Setting up non-profit foundations to fund health care for the poor costs 20%-30% (probably less, but that was the GAO # in 2008) of what the government charges to fund the poor’s health care now (which is going up exponentially under ACA), as well as “preexisting conditions”. (Or P E could be easily handled by Reinsurance, used sucessfully in P&C for decades).

        Of course, much of goverment’s excess is for graft & corruption. Don’t believe that? The ACA robs over $800,000,000 from medicare (now served by many of whom you presumably “want taken care of”), and still doesn’t pay for itself (Obama lies). Fraud, graft & corruption in our current medical monstrosity (to be made infinitely worse under the ACA; look at the “exceptions” for BO’s political friends and campaign supporters already) WAS NEVER ADDRESSED in this bill.

        How much payoff goes to politicians to support all forms of medical legislation (which means higher costs to us for drugs & med devices), and then the illegal “inside info” that they use to make stock profits? Where is tort reform, one of the 5 largest costs in current health care? Where is “buying across state lines”, which would obviate the need for costly government bureaucrats to run the new system, plus 10,000 new IRS agents to collect the penalty “tax”? What about the FDA Rule (not law!!!) that “only drugs can cure something”, that robs us of inexpensive cures for major diseases & conditions (a few if ys are getting these anyway, but we have to find out about them, then find them on our own)?

        There is another factor being overlooked. What function does insurance play in our current system? COST ANALYSIS! Who would do this in the ACA? Bureaucrats! Guess which well be more accurate! Why is this important to anyone? Ever hear of death panels? They are being set up now! NOT PANELS OF BUREAUCRATS! HSS is MANDATING that anyone over 70 (me) that has recurring “events” (congestive heart failure, liver failure, kidney failure, eg) that are expensive to treat, must now be evaluated by a panel of DOCTORS in that specialty, for long-term viability. Treatment for the 2nd (or 3rd) “event” won’t be treated (HHS “rule”) until a panel convenes. PROBLEMS: HOW DOES A DOCTOR GET A PANEL TOGETHER AT 2:30am, IN TIME TO INTERVENE WITH THE PATIENT’S EVENT??? How in the daytime (all doctors are seeing patient of their own)? How in outlying areas, that only have one or 2 specialists? Remember, time is usually critical for these patients. My mother had about 20-30 minutes the last time she was treated for cong heart fail. If she was made to wait for a ‘Panel” then, she would have died.

        For those of us who are healthy, this won’t be a problem, but we are few. The more that “pass on” before a panel can be convened, it helps the government “fix” the SS & Medicare mess they created! Ironic that a campaign ad showing granny being dumped from a wheel chair over the cliff, was put together by the very side that is dumping granny over the cliff!

        There are reasons why our government doesn’t want to discuss these & other issues, which is exactly why we should want them to!

        I could go on, but everyone should get the picture. To quote: “Government is not the solution to the problem. Government IS the problem.” Government should prevent force & fraud, NOT create it!

        But here is the real kicker. The ACA CREATES more new problems than the old system, and fixes a couple but few of the problems in the old system. And who set up the old system??? CONGRESS!!!! Why would we ever trust those idiots to fix something they broke??????

        Again, “Government is not the solution to the problem. Government IS the problem.”

        Dorian Douglas

      • CHRISTOPHER ALLEN HORTON

        “Robert Smith,”

        TO NOT HAVE YOUR OWN HEALTH-CARE PLAN IS BASED ON A LOT OF CHOICES YOU MADE AT THE AGE OF EIGHTEEN, OR, WHENEVER YOU GAINED YOUR INDEPENDENCE. YOUNG ADULTHOOD IS A VERY IMPORTANT TIME IN LIFE; ONE CAN GO DOWN THE WRONG ROAD VERY EASILY AND QUICKLY IN LIFE. I DO NOT WANT TO PAY FOR SOMEONE ELSE’S BAD CHOICES.

        CHRISTOPHER ALLEN HORTON

      • http://peresonallibertydigest.. gottaplenty

        R s The selfish among us? I can just see all you self rightous sorry assed liberals going around your neighborhood sharing your food stamps and welfare with any one.. The only place your kind will be seen is campaining for a commie state and demanding more handouts that you can benifit from. Out of those terrible selfish working , small buisness ,people’s pockets…

      • Ted G

        I’ll call you out for this BS Robert. I’ll help you take care of our own but not by using the federal government to do it.
        So come on lets do it as true Americans eh? If you really believe in the US Constitution and the BOR etc. then you should know that it is up to “we the people” to do what must or needs to be done! But absolutely it is not the within the realm of the Federal governments responsibility do do it!
        What you should really do is admit that you want to throw away our current form of government and replace it with Socialism/communism. You know that which has proven to be a failed ideology and unworkable.

      • Nadzieja Batki

        Now you were assigned the use of the word “selfish”. Be sure to use it pointedly after everyone who disagrees with you.

      • rb

        I also am proud to be part of a nation that takes care of its own. It is such an unfortunate thing that our government keeps interfering with our ability to do so. We have a local helps agency in our community that takes in donations, sells the items and uses the money to help those in need. We are a rural area with high unemployment and even more underemployment. There are only 60,000 people in the entire county. Yet this organization, through private donations feeds over 1,100 families every month through the food pantry they house. They have paid for numerous car repairs for those whose car broke down but the new job they have only pays $8-$10 per hour so they don’t have $500 to fix it. The number of heat bills that have been paid during long winter months can hardly be counted. Yet they do all of this without one red cent front Big Brother. Yes, we are a nation that takes care of its own. I would like to ask you when the last time you donated to an organization such as the one I am talking about with your money or more importantly your time. There are over 250 volunteers that run the place I am talking about. No government!
        Oh but wait. Lets talk about what the government can do. Medicaid. I have a doctor friend who is the only surgeon in a four county area that will accept a Medicaid patient. Why would that be you ask? Because Medicade doesn’t even reimburse him what it costs to buy the drugs to treat his Medicaid patients! Let alone his staff. That’s right…this doctor pays in order to treat Medicade patients. Now that’s what I call “taking care of” our own isn’t it? See what a good job government graft and corruption does at “taking care of” our own.

      • vicki

        Robert Smith says:
        “I’m proud to be part of a nation that takes care of its own. ”

        Of course Rob is proud to be one of the thieves taking OUR money at gunpoint to take care of HIS own.

        And he dares to call us selfish.

      • http://www.facebook.com/nocent.kansas No Cent Kansas

        If you think fiscal emasculation of the economy is a way of “taking care” of anyone, let me explain. The socialist agenda is to render everyone dependent on the government by making it impossible to independently survive the hegemony of the federal bureaucracy. Each day, there are fewer decisions left to individuals, and that results in the lock-step parade of sheep into the slaughterhouse. Maybe you prefer the goose-step parade?

      • RichE

        If the socialist agenda is a chicken in every pot then what’s the non-socialist agenda?

      • http://gravatar.com/macgyver1948 macgyver1948

        RichE….. To your “If the socialist agenda is a chicken in every pot then what’s the non-socialist agenda?”.

        I would guess it is like the old fish story. Give a man a fish and he eats for a day, teach him to fish and he eats for a life time. To your question I suppose you teach him how to catch a chicken but more relative to today problems, for example, I would make it easier, and less pay-back costly, for him/her to go to college.

        It was a lot easier to payback student loans in my day but I didn’t have that problem. I went into the Air Force and when I got out our Uncle paid my way through. Not through Grad school, that I did on my own. :-) . Its the learning that counts and I think that should be the point to your chicken question and the fish parable.

        In other words, help people enough so they can help themselves. Not tell them to ask mom and pop to buy them a business when most of our parents do not have the money. Romney is a sweetheart of a guy when it comes to his apathy toward all of us who aren’t as wealthy as he is. I oppose being given the chicken but I like the idea of being taught to catch one. Thanks for your question…

      • David Watkins

        The non-socialist agenda is have as many chickens as you want, in the freezer, in the yard, in the frying pan OR/AND the pot. No one saying “It’s not fair!” Just ask the guy how he got them and try to do it yourself.

      • http://gravatar.com/bychoosing Jay

        Well one thing’s for sure, obamacare is certainly taking the focus away from the fact that we have an illegitimate President who should not be in the White-house in the first place, much less be passing legislation, wether Constitutional or not. The debate should not consist of wether obamacare is Constitutional, but rather, that our current president is not legitimate. Thereby rendering the debate over wether obamcare is Constitutional, irrelevant!

      • vicki

        RichE says:
        “If the socialist agenda is a chicken in every pot then what’s the non-socialist agenda?”

        Your premise is in error so your question has no meaning. The socialist agenda is any of various economic and political theories advocating collective or governmental ownership and administration of the means of production and distribution of goods.

        Thus it has nothing to do with chickens other than having the government raise them and giving them to the people that government wants the vote from (while the charade of voting is still used).

      • Don_in_DC

        Robert…nothing wrong with a country taking care of its own, its a good theory. Communism is good in theory too.

        Now you need to look at reality. Government isn’t capable of making moral distinctions. It can’t decide if your food stamps are deserved or not, it can only give them. It can’t decide if your healthcare is wasteful, it can only give. It uses some metrics in trying to give those and this creates problems. Some people deserve the assistance and don’t get it while others get it and don’t deserve it. That is reality.

        Do you want the government making those decisions for you? If you do then why aren’t you living in a country that already has this? There are numerous countries with socialized medicine, socialized benefits, etc…why change this country to have them when you have alternatives?

        Reality for me means to evaluate fairness in each decision. If the healthcare reform is so great why is it the politicians aren’t in it? No politician should be able to vote you into something that they aren’t taking a part in. That is the basis of our government even if it isn’t explicitly defined (although it should be). State governments are supposed to create laws that apply to that state and the politicians there live in that state. It opens too much abuse if you don’t control scope. Laws aren’t supposed to pick and choose fine detailed issues they are supposed to cover very basic ideas. Even then they aren’t supposed to enforce those laws, that falls upon the courts and juries of peers. You can argue assistance being great and wonderful all you want but in the end the Constitution is quite clear…decisions are supposed to be made at a local level and the federal government is only to be involved in issues across state lines. If your state can afford to give assistance then they are using their taxes to do it and that is fine. There shouldn’t be this taxation on a federal level to give it to the states, that is against the Constitution.

        When you try to cover all these things you only end up with nothing getting done properly. It would be much better to have a powerless federal government than to have a federal government that makes the people powerless. It isn’t a Dem or GOP issue, it is a fundamental issue on how to avoid corruption. Any system that has a strong central government has been shown over history to be highly corrupt and unfair to the citizens. We were different because we created a system that had local and centralized government but we aren’t that anymore. Now that localized government is only a bureaucratic part of the central government meant to enforce it’s agenda. Again it is fine if you want that, many other places already have it. Leave this one to be different.

    • nc

      Vigilant, tell me real slowly how the last Republican President and a Republican controlled Congress turned out considering the economy when they took office? Any reason to believe that Romney and the same Republican platform will do any better?
      I sort of like the economy figures from the past Democrat administrations compared to those of the past Republican Presidents.See “Presidents and Prosperity” at FORBES. COM going back to Harry Truman! Notice that it ends BEFORE little bush left office and his figures, if they had been included, would have placed him even below the weak record of his father and Nixon! You do remember that Steve Forbes was and is a Republican?

      • http://yahoo marc lizotte

        I agree with you NC and also would like to see Stevie boy picked for vice president . Romney/Forbes , that would move us forward. Would be interesting to see if Forbes would accept tho.

      • John

        nc I am confused by your question/statement about Bush and a Repub congress; If memory serves we had an unemployment of less than 5% for much of the Bush presidency with a Repub lead congress.

        In January 2007 Nancy Pelosi (D) and Harry Reid (D) became leaders of their respective houses of congress and within 15 months of their tireless managing of the purse strings we had an economic meltdown.

        Prez Obumma continues to emulate FDR in his policies and ideas and though FDR is promoted as some great Prez by the “historians” I have always wondered why his policies kept us in a Great Depression while the rest of the world had economic growth. I have also wondered how long it would it have continued if the Japanese hadn’t bombed Pearl Harbor.

        As for other Dems, Truman happened to be pres when we were the only industrialised nation that hadn’t been ravaged by war. Kennedy and Johnson were still riding that wave of being the industrial base of the west. Carter, was a complete joke, granted part of his problem is the rest of the industrial nations were finally rebuilt after the war, with newer and better equipment, but his policies were a joke, especially his CRA which took a couple decades to come up and bite us hard (used to think he would go down as the worst Pres in my lifetime).

        Clinton got real lucky; the internet boom and a Repub congress to make him balance the books. Yet he still left office with a recession, passing it on to the next guy….. oops.

        And we all know what our current Democratic Pres is doing to the prosperity of our nation…… if one keeps in mind that when Obumma talks about redistributing wealth; he’s talking about redistributing the wealth of the USA to third world nations, one can see he is doing exactly what he set out to do.

        I don’t know about the rest of you, but I for one can’t afford 4 more yrs of Obumma. Would prefer Ron Paul, but anyone but Obumma will do at this point.

        of my soapbox

        John

      • phideaux

        “… yet another mediocre-to-bad jobs report. The economy added just 80,000 jobs in June and unemployment remained unchanged at 8.2%. It’s the third straight month of weak hiring.”

        And that is just the official unemployment figure the actual number is closer to 16.5%

      • JeffH

        KUDOS to you Vigilant…for not responding to an ignorant liberal parrot!

      • texastwin827

        I am constantly amazed at where people put the blame for a poor economy…the President, when in fact, he does not pass the spending bills (that put us in tremendous debt) the CONGRESS does! Americans do two things really well….we bitch alot and continue to put the same people back into office, that have created the mess that we are in!

        Congress’ history might actually provide some “insight” if Americans ever bothered to look at who controlled it and who was President, at the time. Keep in mind, the House can pass all the bills they want, however, IF the Senate Majority leader elects to not bring their bills to the floor, for a vote, as Harry Reid is currently doing (over 700 House bills have not been brought to the floor for a vote in the Senate), they are rendered ineffective so it would appear the true “Party of No” might actually be those in the majority in the Senate. If not, it could be said, at the least the Senate Majority leader’s fault.

        Many times, I’ve seen people (usually Liberals) point out what a “good economy” that this country had, under President Clinton without even realizing that, except for his first 2 yrs, his Congress was a Republican Majority in both houses, during his entire tenure as President. Gee, could that be a clue we’ve overlooked??

        While George W Bush (and no, Liberals, I didn’t vote for him as my Gov of TX, let alone my President), had a Republican Congress the first term, he had a Democrat Congress to deal with his last 4 years. Gee, did we miss another clue??

        103rd 1993-1995 Bill Clinton
        Senate 57 Dems/43 Repubs Democrat Majority
        House 258 Dems/176 Repubs/1 Indep Democrat Majority

        104th 1995-1997 Bill Clinton
        Senate 48 Dems/52 Repubs Republican Majority
        House 204 Dems/230 Repubs/1 Indep Republican Majority

        105th 1997-1999 Bill Clinton
        Senate 45 Dems/55 Repubs Republican Majority
        House 207 Dems/226 Repubs/2 Indep Republican Majority

        106th 1999-2001 Bill Clinton
        Senate 45 Dems/55 Repubs Republican Majority
        House 211 Dems/223 Repubs/ 1 Independ Republican Majority

        107th 2001-2003 Geo W Bush
        Senate 50 Dems/50 Repubs Equal Majority
        House 212 Dems/221 Repubs Republican Majority

        108th 2003-2005 Geo W Bush
        Senate 48 Dems/51 Repubs/1 Indep Republican Majority
        House 205 Dems/229 Repubs/1 Indep Republican Majority

        109th 2005-2007 Geo W Bush
        Senate 44 Dems/55 Repubs/1 Indep Republican Majority
        House 202 Dems/231 Repubs/1 Indep Republican Majority

        110th 2007-2009 Geo W Bush
        Senate: 49 Dems/49 Repubs Equal Majority
        House: 233 Dems/198 Repubs Democrat Majority

        111th 2009-2011 Barack Obama
        Senate 57 Dems/41 Repubs/2 Indep Democrat Majority
        House: 256 Dems/178 Repubs Democrat Majority

        112th 2011-2013
        Senate: 51 Dems/47 Repubs/2 Independents Democratic Majority
        House: 193 Dems/242 Repus Republican Majority

        My Point? For far too many decades, Americans have shirked their duty to educate themselves about the very ones that pass laws that effect us and, instead, have opted to adopt the “I’m pro Dem or Repub party” instead of “I’m for the best candidate, regardless of party affiiation” because we’ve become lazy and apathetic. And we are now reaping what we, the citizens have sewn!

      • texastwin827

        Sorry, I meant to say Geo W Bush had a Democrat Congress for the last 2, not 4 yrs.

      • Don_in_DC

        I’m sick of the party debate…dems, GOP…both got us in this mess. Neither side can really be proud of anything. If you honestly think that either party is doing a good job then you are delusional. Hello, we are broke and you are arguing about who is the better accountant. Neither side has reduced the debt in my lifetime. You people love to quote this figure or that figure but you miss the point. The one thing the government CAN do is tax and spend. When it leaves us with debt that means it isn’t doing it properly. You don’t raise taxes during a recession and SCOTUS says this is a tax. You don’t spend more money than you take in, that is finance. You can’t add to spending if you are using debt UNLESS the gains can be worth more than the cost of borrowing and it is always a gamble to do so. Nothing in this points to fiscal responsibility on the side of either party.

        If you can’t reduce the debt and balance a budget then you are part of the problem. That is the #1 issue. The rest of this is nothing but number games to decide where you are buying more debt. So you think its good to have entitlements then pay for them. I don’t care. If you are broke though you need to be doing something to fix that instead of adding more issues to the mix. Cut ALL the programs, and give everyone a flat tax of 75% until the debt is paid off. After that you can resume your programs and if we ever have debt again, shut it down until its paid off. That is too extreme? Ok, then at least submit a budget and live within that but it better include a real plan to pay off debt. Having debt to foreign nations automatically reduces your ability to be a separate nation. You want to criticize China, how can you do much of anything to them if you need them to buy debt??

        90% of you argue these details and you do nothing to solve them because you will vote your party no matter who they put up there to run. Might as well directly vote for the donkey or the elephant instead of using them as symbols…they can’t do worse.

      • macgyver1948

        Don_in_DC .. LOL.. Wow man you said a mouth full. And so much of what you say is right, fiscally speaking. But when it comes to cutting programs we need to be careful or will will add so deeply to the homeless rate and make so may undertakers happy.

        We are in debt for so many reasons and you are right it may not matter which donkey/horse wins because much of what they do is the same. Heck if Romney wins we will have more bushisms because he is appointing so many of the bush advisors. If Obama wins we better hope Obamacare will penalize only those who do not comply so it will not be a tax. I think the GOP and Romney felt the IRS was a good collector because they are so good at that and they can be so scary.

        We need to cut down on huge government. We also need to be compassionate and prudent in how we do that. And we need to prevent this country from becoming the Corporate States Of America, that is for sure. How we go about it maybe needs to start with a total house cleaning and government reform. Our constitution, it clearly does not belong to the government, must be brought back to how it was meant to be, protecting our liberties, and only needed protections added.

        Corporate influence must be stopped as the founders wanted because of their fear of huge money influence. Wow were they so right.

        “I hope we shall crush in its birth the aristocracy of our monied corporations which dare to challenge our government to a trial by strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country.” — Thomas Jefferson. 1816

        The founders felt corporations cannot be considered people. I say if we allow that where will it end? The Founders wanted only those with beating hearts to be people and therefore citizens. I say if Corporations ever get to vote, out right in public elections or how they influence in government, it would like they have two votes, one as a citizen voter and one as a corporations. How is that fair to the rest of us who have only one vote?

        I do not know all the answers but I have opinions as everyone else does. We need to get pissed off enough and re-create our government as it was intended 236 years ago, or as close to it as we can. And we need to make our so-called representatives fear more for their reelection by us than they hope for their campaign contributions.

        There is more to what I think Government Reform should be, and specific things, but there isn’t enough room here and now. Want I do know and believe is “we cannot fix the problems with the minds that created them”. Man I wish I was the first to think that up. All we continue to do is elect the same kinds of minds and we expect different results. Is that one of the purest definitions of insanity or what?

        We need enough of us UN-wealthy citizens banding together to make all of our government know they work for us because we, by ourselves, do not have the same clout as the big corporations and the very Koch-like wealthy.

        I’m sick of the party debate too.

      • Jim Cumber

        In all this discussion of the ACA, the lack of discussion of certain information indicates that most of the people on this discussion board have NOT really READ the Affordable Care Act (AKA: ObamaCare). Not only does the ACA include the “Death Panels” which the Obamanation claimed it does NOT have, but it also includes RELIGIOUS EXEMPTIONS from the requirements to purchase health insurance by MUSLIMS! They are also exempted from the fines and penalties for NOT PURCHASING Health Insurance. In order to provide “cover” for the unConstitutional favoring of Muslim Shar’iah Law (essentially, establishing Muslim, Qur’anic, Shar’iah Law as the State Religion of the United States, in VIOLATION of the US Constitution’s First Amendment!), such RELIGIOUS EXEMPTIONS are also provided for the Amish…

        THAT is just for “starters…”

        Our COMMUNIST, and Stealth Muslim, Pseudo-POTUS, has the “Mission” of “fundamentally transforming America” into a Communist and Muslim State!

      • Eric Jones

        I know you cant but for giggles PROVE IT !!!!!!

    • Flashy

      Vig…you state “RS, my statement is impeccably correct. You want to see what reckless social spending results in, just look at Europe. If you can’t see that, you are blind.”

      I would suggest the blinders are being worn by you. What caused the issues today facing Europe? Yes, spending is part of the problem, but only part. Had the economies continued to grow as pre-2008 forecasts had them pegged, and spending capped or slowed in growth, the economies of the EU would be stable.

      What occurred? The Great Bush Recession crippled ALL economies. European reaction was to adopt the Janapense solution of the 90′s…the decade the Japanese refer to as the “lost decade”. The adoption of the budget austerity measures so pushed by the GOP for us to adopt. Boom…. what occurred in Japan in the 90;s lo and behold is occurring in Europe.

      Credit dried up, investment monies disappeared, unemployment skyrocketed straining already strained budgets, banks were cash strapped, tax revenues went down (again straining overstretched budgets).

      Uh huh … that’s where the austerity measures the GOP and TPers screamed for us to adopt led Japan and Europe. Cut spending while in the grips of a recession.

      This week France hit the wealthy and Big Corporations with additional taxes and announced short term spending stimuli for the french economy. Now…I may not be a major economic guru, but did you see what the stock market reaction was to those measures? As the wealthy and Big Corporate elite of france scrfeamed “the sky is falling”? Stocks went up. Hmmmmm….

      Every European economy that is in trouble today followed the 90′s Japanese formula of economic suicide. The very same formula that the GOP and the TPers are screaming for today.

      • JeffH

        baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhh!

      • phideaux

        Same old crap flashy posts every week with absolutely no documentation, links, or sources. Only flashy’s word that it is true and we all know what flashy’s word is worth around here.

      • Vigilant

        Flashy says, “Uh huh … that’s where the austerity measures the GOP and TPers screamed for us to adopt led Japan and Europe. Cut spending while in the grips of a recession.”

        Now let’s look at what you’ve said. Tell me what precise austerity measures have been adopted in response to the GOP? That’s right, none.

        Now tell me where the Keynesian pump priming has gotten us. That’s right, unsustainable debt load, dilution of the value of the dollar, downgrading of America’s creditworthiness, anemic GDP growth, 23 million Americans unemployed or underemployed, 40% drop in the net worth of the American family, unemployment over 8% for 41 months (over a longer time than the Depression unemployment figures), black unemployment higher than under Bush, and climbing, and hyperinflation on the horizon.

        Now, if you’re such a proponent of Keynesian economics, how come you don’t look at the other facet of recommended actions during a recession? It’s called “lowering taxes.” Yeah, like Obama’s resurrection of Alternative Minimum Tax, increase in capital gains taxes, and a health care program that will become the largest tax increase in American history (over 20 NEW taxes),

        So. let’s review. How does one blame austerity measures which have never been applied, then turn around and condone, nay praise, a course of action that is harming this nation and leading it on a road to disaster? Obama’s had 41 months to do something about this kettle of fish. He OWNS it now, regardless of who started it.

      • John Woodbury

        Wow Flusher, what a piece of crap from you. You do what libturds the world over do, accept projections as facts. Republicans are not proposing anything, which is better than your no-witted brothers in the government are doing. As far as Bush’s anything, it over fool, it your child-leaders problem. But if you read well, you would find it was mainly a Democratic push not Republican (remember Bush tried to fix Fannie and Freddy, of course you do not. No brain = no memory). There is no point in educating a rock, so have a great life.

      • Jim Cumber

        Besides which, our pseudo-President has a virtual ADDICTION to the Muslim practice of al-Taqiyya (translates from the Arabic as “Intelligent Dissimulation”: in essence, DELIBERATELY LYING to non-Muslims in order to further the MUSLIM AGENDA!). That Agenda can be summed up by quoting the Battle-Cry of the Sons of Islam as they first boiled out of the Saudi Desert in the 600s AD: “The Sword or the Qur’an!” In other words, “Convert to Islam or we’ll KILL you!”

  • Rasta

    Wishful thinking!

    • Vigilant

      Another fact-filled and meticulously sourced argument from the resident communist.

      • Opal the Gem

        Rasta isn’t smart enough to be a communist he is just a slug spreading slime over everything he touches.

      • Old Henry

        Vigilant! RALMAO! Right to the point!

  • Vigilant

    Kindly refer to Mr. Livingston’s article on July 4 at http://personalliberty.com/2012/07/04/reality-check-if-healthcare-law-is-a-tax-is-it-now-invalid/

    The SCOTUS ruling that Obamacare is a tax clearly invalidates the law at the very outset. The ACA was passed using “reconciliation” procedures. Such procedures CAN NOT be used in the passage of tax bills. The Solicitor General argued before the SCOTUS using the tax aspect, and THAT was the portion Roberts said was Constitutional.

    Ergo, the law is null and void on its face.

    While Boehner may not have the sack to pursue this, this would give Romney the very opportunity he needs to declare the law invalid. He would not be acting in an unconstitutional manner by stating that he would not enforce the law (as Obama is inclined to do) because the law was never properly passed in the first place.

    • Vigilant

      Another aspect that is overlooked is that Roberts brilliantly got the liberal activist justices to sign their names to an opinion that clearly disowns the Commerce and Necessary and Proper clauses as vehicles “to justify every possible expansion of federal power…a majority of Court members said it would clearly be unConstitutional.” Not just a MAJORITY, but LIBERAL ACTIVIST Court members.

      With the liberal justices skunked into this admission, it effectively stops in its tracks, perhaps for decades, further efforts by the leftists in Congress to abuse the Constitution by hanging their hats on Commerce and Necessary and Proper clauses. In short, the activist lefties on the Court have been screwed, and I have a sneaky feeling that they know it.

      • MAP

        You could be onto something here Vigilant. This would show Roberts to have been brilliant rather than traitorous. The slippery and deceitful method by which the bill was pushed through would come back to bite them in the…well, you know. Pat Buchanan’s take on the ruling was very different. He missed the fact that a tax can not bypass the Senate, thus rendering the bill unconstitutional and invalid. Let’s see how fast the GOP can pick up the ball and run with it, though I have long since ceased having any faith in the GOP.

      • wsk

        Nonsense! This decision will embolden them. SCOTUS has given the Federal Government the ability to tax (penalize) and behavior, life style, etc it sees fit.
        VOTE ROMNEY.- Its not like we have a choice.

      • dan

        That’s how I interpret it V. But the real question is WTF Romney will do as he’s on both sides of this and Mitch McConnel has said that Congress won’t be able to get rid of it…

        There IS,however, a candidate who will reign in the terrorists at the iRS,EPA,FBI,ATF
        and undo a lot of the mess…. RON PAUL

      • http://teamlaw.net/TrusteeMessage.htm Jazzabelle

        wsk, the feds have been exercising that power for a while now.

      • SailAway

        I believe you and the author of the article are incorrect about this. That statement by Roberts regarding the Commerce clause was part of a separate writing he produced that was not part of the majority decision. In effect it was not part of “The Opinion of the Court” which means it has no impact as a precedent. The liberals will continue to use the Commerce clause and the “Necessary” clause to expand their power at the expense of the Constitution and consequently at the expense of our freedom.

        This is precisely why we must stop this nonsense of trying to “cooperate” or “compromise” with liberals. Does one cooperate or compromise with lunatics? Modern liberalism is a fraternity of narcissists, statists, communists, and lunatics. The only solution is to defeat them at every turn and on every battlefield at the local, county, state, and national levels. Defeat them on School Boards, PTAs, Zoning Boards; defeat them for clerk, and recorder, and coroner, for sheriff, and supervisor, for state rep and senator, for every board and office in the land. They are the ones that made it an all out war on American freedom decades ago, and just like with regard to Al Qaeda, they have been at war with us, but we have not been at war with them. They call GOP members Nazis while the GOP Senate Minority Leader calls them colleagues. No, my friends, make no mistake they are at war against America, Americans, the Constitution, and against everything that America has stood for since its creation. It is time we fought back and fought back with our entire arsenal of logical, rational, informed intellect as well as our primary weapon, OUR VOTE!

        At least when Mitt Romney was Governor of Massachusetts, he did not govern by ignoring the State Legislature or by shredding the State Constitution. BHO has done this at he national level since day one. It is rational to conclude Romney will not start doing this when President. It is insane to conclude that BHO will stop if given a second term. That in and of itself is more than good enough reason to abandon any notion of a “protest” vote for a third party candidate. This is not the election for such sophomoric logic.

        Vote Romney and vote in as many conservative and Tea Party candidates as possible to the Senate and House. Then we must remain engaged to push for a Tea Party or at least a conservative Speaker of the House and Senate Majority Leader. Boehner and McConnell must be replaced by effective leaders with the will, intellect, and backbone to take the fight to the liberals and to keep taking it to them until American freedoms are not only restored but better protected from future liberal eruptions of insanity. This is the only peaceful pathway forward that includes freedom.

      • Old Sarge

        I agree. The unwritten message that Justice Roberts gave to the American People is staring you in the face. That message is that the Supreme Court cannot be expected to clean up the mess made by the voters that put the legislative politicians in office in the first place. We have to pay more attention to who we are voting into office. It effects all of our lives. The way I see it the voters have one very important question. Who can you really trust? The candidates will be making powerful speeches to try to convince you why they should be elected or reelected. I have said this many times. Do not be fooled by what the candidates, in both parties, say in their campaign speeches and debates. Those are just words and slogans. Edward R. Murrow said “Our major obligation is not to mistake slogans for solutions.” Actions speak louder than words. Research the candidates. That means doing a little work. That’s right. I said that four letter word “WORK.” Look at their past voting records, accomplishments, backgrounds, the issues they supported, activities they participated in, books they may have wrote and the organizations they joined. Those things can tell you quite a lot about the person. If you are reading this you have the ability to do that research in the comfort of your home. The important thing is to get out and vote and try to encourage those who don’t vote to get off dead center and do so or we could loose this Republic the Founding Fathers started for us. Those who don’t vote deserve the government they get.

      • slapjack

        I like your observation better than Chas. Krauthammer of Fox news. Nice insight!!!!

      • Sarah R.

        Article I, Section 7, of the Constitution of the United States states that “All bills raising revenue shall originate in the House of Represenatives.” Obamacare did not originate in the House.

      • JeffH

        Vigilant, Justice Roberts could very well have sealed Obama’s fate…intentionally I might add. This ruling was so off course and Obamacare is so unpopular that those that oppose it or were riding the fence have had a fire lit under them to get out and vote…all the while, the liberal supporters of Obama and Obamacare are basking in the light of their victory looking forward to another 4 years under the Marxist in charge.

        I know it’s a bit of a stretch, but Robert’s may have served the people, for those that can figure it out, the incentive to think about where they place their votes…start weeding out the rot in both parties.

        For the time being, it’s important to let Boehner and your state representatives know that O’care must go and their political survival is at stake…in no uncertain terms.
        Boehner’s contact link: http://www.speaker.gov/Contact/

        There’s a long road ahead, but 2010 was a start and 2012 can be a statement.

      • JeffH

        Boehner on O’care: “At my direction and that of our majority leader, Rep. Eric Cantor (R-VA), the U.S. House of Representatives on July 11, 2012 will vote on legislation that would fully repeal the president’s health care law to stop it from inflicting further harm on our economy. The House passed a similar bill last year, but it died in the Democratic-controlled Senate. By passing our repeal bill in July, we will give the Senate and President Obama a second opportunity to follow the will of the American people.

        “House Republicans understand that ObamaCare is bad for our economy, and we will act, on behalf of the American people, to repeal it in its entirety. We stand ready to work with a president who will listen to the people and will not repeat the mistakes that gave our country this harmful law.”

        Keep the pressure on Boehner and our representative to fully repeal O’care…
        http://www.speaker.gov/Contact/

      • JeffH

        In a news conference overlooking the Capitol, Mitt Romney said, “What the court did not do on its last day of session I will do on my first day if I am elected president of the United States. I will act to repeal Obamacare.”

      • Old Henry

        JeffH:

        I hope you are correct, but do not hold your breath. This issue is basically a good campaign tool to help wrest power from the democraps so they can run the committees.

        We gave them the House of Representatives (checkbook) in November 2010. How much of guvment have they defunded since January 2011? None. Nada. Zippo.

        Have they put forth a SCHEDULE for the repeal? The first day of the new Congress? By the end of Juanuary 2013? Before April 15, 2013? Not a peep.

        Boehner is a go along to get along good ole boy political hack and they will continually find ways to postpone a repeal as TPTB do not want it repealed and they will continue funneling $ to the off-shore bank accounts of these politicians to keep them “in line”.

        Vote Ron Paul, or if he does not make it, vote Gary Johnson.

      • JeffH

        Old Henry, I hear ya loud and clear! As Vigilant pointed out…basically what Robert’s did, besides his twisted opinion, was state that the voters should have the final say on who’s supporting any type of egregious legislation.

      • Hank, MO

        Vigilant, I really disagree with your statement. This is how we continually get sucked in to this crap. Somebody like Roberts comes up with a ridiculous conclusion that is twice too cute to be anything approaching reality, and those who want to believe in him jump through their hats trying to sell that conclusion as a golden nugget of brilliancy. A lot of blue-collared workers would have one retort to your justification of Roberts’ insanity: Get your damned Nike ass out of here!” That’s because they’ve been sold a bill of goods before and paid for $90. tennis shoes and $200 jackets just because their kids screamed for something with Michael Jordan’s name and logo on it.

        We didn’t suddenly checkmate the liberals with Roberts’ convoluted logic. We irrevocably changed their ability to stick their noses in our business and their hands in our pockets. The author here states: “If Obama wins re-election and the Democrats retain control of the Senate, I still think Obamacare will end up on the ash can of history.” Is that supposed to console me? How long do you think it would take and how much misery would result? Hell, the Soviet Union ended up “on the ash can of history”, but how many millions lost their lives in the meantime? How much misery resulted from it?

        We don’t need to justify Roberts’ decision; we need to condemn it in the strongest terms– and exile him to his beloved Malta as the French did with Napoleon to the island of St. Helena.

      • RichE

        It won’t wind up in the trash can. Obamacare is a cash-cow for the insurance companies. Companies pay the majority of insurance premiums and now more companies will be forced to insure more employees. I sure hope someone is auditing this to make sure the insurance companies don’t get too wealthy.

      • http://aol darrell

        I was thinking the same thing. What if he did it purposely knowing it would take care of a bigger issue as well…..Obama! Genious! Quite genius!

      • Old Sarge

        He also got a 7-2 decision on the States Rights issues under the Tenth Amendment saying that the Federal Government cannot penalize states for not abiding by its wishes by means of withdrawing funds. That sets many such practices at severe risk and prevents further attempts to do so. In my humble opinion, the states are going to have a field day suing for already sequestered funds in education, transportation and other areas. Federally mandated speed limits set by the EPA under threat of withdrawal of funds? Goodbye.

    • http://www.facebook.com/agi.groff Agi Groff

      Don’t get sidetracked with side issues, watch this video and you will know what is wrong with America:
      You-tube USS LIBERTY Cover Up – Full Documentary – “The loss of Liberty”
      Watch the video, sign the petition!
      Do not be afraid to put your name on this petition, initiated by one of the survivors of the attack. We must all hang together, or else we will hang separately.
      It is time to “Come From The Shadows” (Joan Baez) and demand that truth and justice reign over this land.
      Watch: Loss Of Liberty on You- tube!
      Sign the petiton:
      Google: Investigate the Attack on the USS LIBERTY PETITION

      • Vigilant

        Uh, I think YOU are the one trying to sidetrack us. You might want to scroll to the top and review the title and gist of the article.

    • SamFox

      There is little doubt in my mind that 0 care is not about people’s health. If it were this bill would not have been needed. If it were about our HC, govt woulda started doing what it takes to fix the economy rather than working to collapse it according to the Cloward & Pivon book & the book Rules For Radicals.

      What we are really seeing is an attempt to collapse the US financially with the goal in mind to ‘re-build’ US into some kind of Marxist-socialist nation. A nation where central planners control every aspect of every individual’s life. We see this happening NOW.

      I concede that Mitt may be a bit better than 0, because like Bush, Mitt will take us to the above agenda slower than 0 has. Which is not much of a redeeming factor.

      Don’t give up. Ron Paul is still in the race. Do the research. The Paul campaign is going after delegates & they do have many more than fringe presstitute media wants us to know of. Lot of info available at YouTube on Ron Paul & the delegate count.

      Also look up @ YT, copy & paste the following phrases,

      Judge Napolitano on Ron Paul

      Combat Veterans for Ron Paul

      Blacks for Ron Paul

      Jews for Ron Paul

      Hispanics for Ron Paul

      9-11 War and why Ron Paul’s foreign policy is right

      Southern Avenger on Ron Paul

      Thanks! Pray for the USA! God help US!

      SamFox

      • SamFox

        Here are some links exposing the real flip flopping two tongue Mitt Romney–

        Romney exposed
        http://tinyurl.com/86meydk

        Fake Conservative Mitt:
        http://www.newswithviews.com/Nelson/kelleigh123.htm

        Snakes On A Campaign, M Romney, by Southern Avenger
        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b3etUOq7hVE\

        Romney & 0bama the same.
        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IWDJEc92d38

        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4vS9SF3vc-A

        http://godfatherpolitics.com/3369/is-mitt-romney-a-fiscal-and-social-liberal/

        It’s up to us. We must do our best to educate every one we can. Look for & post replies at websites that knock the only fiscal conservative Running in either party, Ron Paul.

        Ron comes with a great bonus. He is also a Constitution based Congressman, would follow the Founder’s intent as much as possible & is a 30+ consistent US statesman.

        SamFox

      • Greg

        I believe a lot of companies will choose to pay the penalty as opposed to insuring everyone under the new premiums. It will be much less money. Most people will have to fend for themselves and get their own insurance.

      • Don_in_DC

        Let me start by saying I don’t like Obama but I have thought much of the comments about him were also false, as in him wanted to bankrupt the country…but I have to say that the more I think of it, the more I think it is a willful plan by him and probably many more in the government. It isn’t because of his dad or any of the other stuff, it’s because I notice 2 things…Our government isn’t doing anything to deal with the debt and yet many are smart enough to know that it is a critical situation.

        The three options they have then are:
        1) pay off the debt
        2) default, let everything crash, start over and the debt has been wiped effectively sort of like bankruptcy.
        3) print more money and pay it off that way. This really becomes #2 though.

        Given that Obama is adding a huge tax on the public in the middle of a debt problem shows he is willing to accept the default plan. I wish people could see the truth isn’t whether healthcare needed reform or whatever but a simple matter of money. If you can’t control your debt you can’t increase your spending. Nobody but Ron Paul is willing to attack the debt…NOBODY. And since he is seen as crazy by so many it tells me that really Americans are ok with the march to destruction.

        Other countries are working to remove the US dollar as the international currency because of our debt issues. Once this happens, the fight is over. Really it should happen too. No one country should have the ability to print money and affect the global economy. Stick to American arrogance all you want but that is only fair. International affairs should not give any country that power because it is unfair advantage to said country.

        There are many things I don’t know. I don’t know how much of this is related to the fundamentals of our banking system (money created from debt by the FED, the fiat system, etc). I do know something though, it cannot survive as it is going. Maybe Ron Paul has some strange ideas and maybe some aren’t right but he really seems to be the only one trying to change the path. So many fault him for wanting to remove regulation and such but I remember Reagan caught the same grief over removing the federal control over gas prices and he was right. We all want to make sure there is clean water and such but I can’t say that all our regulation really is responsible for making it happen.

        So I really suggest that all parties think about this strongly. Social programs can’t exist without money. It doesn’t seem a good idea to let government even try them because of the inefficiencies. Yes we want to help the less fortunate but it shouldn’t be at the expense of the country as a whole. I reduce everything to it’s basics. If a family is broke and in debt and they continually help the less fortunate it sounds like a noble gesture because we hope they can find a way to make all survive but if the reality becomes that the family dies because of that support then it was folly. If we let the entire government fail because of its spending then we have killed the family. Healthcare reform won’t survive that failure, food stamps won’t, etc etc. We can’t approach this problem with passion that we will live as martyrs because there is more at risk than just us. There are the lives of the whole word in this. Remove the US and it’s freedom from the mix and the dictators will take over everywhere because they will have another example of how freedom leads to corruption. Instead of bashing China and these other countries realize that you are faulting their governments. Their people still see the US as hope. That is the true American dream and it isn’t just ours anymore. We are a beacon to the entire world that you cannot take away.

        Gandhi said it best, be the change you want to see in the world. For a long time we have built the reputation that our way of freedom is something that is a right for all humans. We can’t allow that to die because we can’t balance our checkbook. If you want to be idealistic then be it for that dream. Fight to show that our ideals can work. Our ideals don’t have to be chained to all these false attachments. We seem to be clinging to the idea that we can still have our cake and eat it too. We can’t preserve any program or whatever if we can’t survive as a country. So don’t let this election be about healthcare or even jobs…let it be about showing that we will do our work to preserve a haven for everyone in the world. If we can’t protect the country within the borders we can’t protect others in their country. Get back to the simple ideas that here in the US there is protection for all. Don’t worry about the illegals already here or all these distractions. Get back to the fundamentals that within the borders everyone is welcome and has the freedom to live their life. Government can’t support that life it can only preserve the environment that lets freedom exist. Stop fighting about all this fluff and get back to the basics.

        Elect the man that is willing to put us on the right track. Obama showed he isn’t that person. If you think Romney is then elect him but I see him as more of the same. Only Ron Paul is willing to fight the tough fight and try something radical. We were formed by radical ideas. Our forefathers were the first terrorist remember by creating guerrilla warfare. Instead of hating Muslims try to learn from them what we have lost. People will give their lives to ensure their ideals can live. Be willing to stand up to this huge machine we have created in the same way and say “no more”. Show we deserve a better fate than Rome did because our ideals can carry that dream. We can’t have politicians in a different system of healthcare than the citizens. There are several rings of power in our system and it was never meant to be controlled by the central government, it was meant to be controlled by the local government. Your local community should be more powerful than the county which should be more powerful than the state which should be more powerful than the federal government. As you get further removed from your local community you have less impact to make your personal problems relevant. We have it backwards people. The federal government can’t give you anything without first taking it from you. We don’t have to support their salaries for life, their special health benefits, etc. They are rich enough to do that themselves. Elect someone that will strip all these benefits and give them back to the people. It isn’t about speeches or slogans but the fundamentals. Prove to the future generations that we were here for a reason.

      • Old Sarge

        I agree that, for most small businesses, it will be much less to just pay the fine instead of providing health care for his workers. I have a friend that owns a franchised Toco Bell. According to him he would have to charge up to and perhaps more than six dollars for a toco. Who would want to pay that?

      • Jim Cumber

        Another DVD which has just become available, and which may lead to the Obamanation’s Impeachment for Treason, is Joel Gilbert’s masterful “Dreams From My Real Father”, available from Alex Jones’ InfoWars.com, at UNDER $15 per copy.

        In short, the “Birthers” have been barking up the wrong tree. The REAL issue is NOT “Where’s the Birth Certificate?” The REAL issue is “Who is the father?”

        The REAL father of our erstwhile, pseudo-POTUS is Frank Marshall Davis (deceased) a black member of the Communist Party, which means that we have a “Red Diaper Baby” living in the White House. Our “Usurper-in-Chief” admits in his Bill Ayers, ghost-written “autobiography” that Davis was his “Mentor!” His Step-Father, Lolo Suetoro, was Muslim, so his early “formative years” were spent learning RADICAL ISLAM in an Indonesian “Madrasa. That’s right, kiddies, we have an honest-to-Lucifer, full-blown, “brain-washed” (or, rather, his brains were “dry cleaned”), COMMUNIST (and “stealth” radical Muslim) in the White House, whose “Mission” is to DESTROY the US Constitution and our Constitutional Republic, REPLACING them with a Muslim-Soviet State (a WORST possible politico-religious combination I CANNOT conceive), abiding by strict Qur’anic, “Shar’iah” Law! If he happens to get re-elected, the gloves and the Mask comes OFF, and the REAL Luciferian personality will be revealed, in all his Satanic “glory!”

        THIS is the REAL MEANING behind his TRUE AGENDA for “fundamentally transforming America!” His talent for prevarication can be traced to the common, Muslim practice of “al-Taqiyya” (“intelligent dissimulation”: essentially, LYING to non-Muslims in order to promote the Muslim Agenda!

        God Help us ALL!

      • Victor J. Fedrizzi

        All the garbage you read amd preach can go down to the bottom of the ocean. With you gone, there will less jackasses around

      • macgyver1948

        Victor J. Fedrizzi … I like your comment to Jim Cumber although I might have worded it a bit differently.

        To Jim Cumber I say, in case you do not want to know. You can do wonders with Photo Shop and video editing for an agenda and the Tea Party and the GOP are very good at it.

        I have seen TP/GOP videos and I have seen the unedited and the full versions of those same videos and they convey such different messages. Some you could see the frame cutting and the unprofessional job so maybe some are not so good. Ah, to give rise to “the truth, THE WHOLE truth and nothing but the truth”. I guess THE WHOLE truth doesn’t matter when it gets in the way of your real agenda. It even gets in your way when you don’t want some things known, LOL. Happy viewing there Jim… :-)

    • Bradley

      Add to the law not being legal that way and add that, it was a Senate Bill, ALL revenue Bill are required by the Constitution to come from the House

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