We are all for taking care of the helpless, we are not for taking care of the hopeless!

Society has an obligation to those who CAN’T help themselves but owes absolutely NOTHING to those who WON’T help themselves.

Cutin’ and pastin’ again, huh, “flipped”?

Two can play at that game:

God was talking about an INDIVIDUAL responsibility to care for the poor, the sick, the widow and orphan. NOT a GOVERNMENTAL responsibility. In fact, by using GOVERNMENT as a proxy to absolve us of our INDIVIDUAL responsibility to care for the “least of these,” we are actually DISOBEYING God.

Got it?

As I remember it , the BIBLE says , GOD WILL TAKE CARE OF HIS OWN . It also says , the poor will always be with us , IS COMPLETELY MISUNDERSTOOD . Go back to the Book of Mathew . JESUS IS TALKING TO THE POOR IN SPIRIT , which means faith is not strong . ALL OF THE CHARACTERS AS PRESENTED IN THE BIBLICAL STORIES , HAD EVERY DAY JOBS . The whole reason JESUS WAS KILLED , HE SPOKE AGAINST THE GOVERNMENT . In that day the CHURCH WAS THE GOVERNMENT . ??????????? The welfare population is mostly crooks . Lots of the disability population is crooks . GOD WILL TAKE CARE OF HIS OWN . The rest are crooks . THE WELFARE POPULATION IS BIGGER THAT IT HAS EVER BEEN . GOVERNMENT ADDING TO IT MONTHLY . WELFARE IS PAID FROM SOCIAL SECURITY . WELFARE IS 1 0 0 TIMES BIGGER THAN THE MILITARY , which gets a lot of the blame for breaking SOCIAL SECURITY . THE REPUBLICAN PARTY IS NOT DOING ANYTHING TO STOP IT . …………………RON PAUL FOR PRESIDENT .

Flipped54,
God does not care about money. God cares about your spirit and being poor is being poor in spirit. The only way out is helping yourself, raising your spirit to a higher level. Learning and doing all you can as right as you can do it. In order to do so you need to have the freedom of choice. With out that we are all doomed to grovel before our masters.

Socialism and Liberalism are not in the Bible so kindly stop rationalizing your strange beliefs. It may actually help you if you read the Bible.

I would argue that capitalism isn’t in the Bible either.

Actually, the fundamental principle for Capitalism is INDEED in the Bible. It is called “Free Will”.

The economic crash is going to happen no mater who is President, or even who is in Congress. The choice you need to make is who is the best to manage it. To let you in on a little secret; the crash has already started. It works in slow motion. Many people’s economic world has already crashed, but other won’t notice until it is their time around.

SteveE, I’ve been saying that for ages. No one wants to hear it but it is the truth. The collapse has already begun. It just isn’t apparent to most people. Total collapse is near. I don’t think people realize what it will mean. There will be utter chaos. There will be no food available to buy. Your dollars will be worth nothing anyway. Things will be very dangerous because people will be starving. Their children will be starving. They will kill for food. The government is planning for this with the FEMA camps. It is how they think they can control the masses. Get ready people, it is coming! Stock up on food and water and methods of defense. Say no to the government unless you won’t to be slaves.

If the majority of the citizens woke up, I believe we could turn the economy around in short order. Freedom with very small Government is so much more prosperous than our current situation that our average disposable income would probably double or better. As far as the unfunded liabilities go, a lot could be salvaged by selling off the Government assets. Some people would still be hurt, but hopefully we could manage the settlements equitably.

If Cheney & Bush can stay out of jail – I would think anyone can. But i can see what you wish for our Country – more hate – damn

God will not bless anyone or any organization who ignores the poor, disabled and the sick. God describes those as “wicked” and they will be done away with and will be no more.

Here’s the difference, “flipped” (and please, TRY to get it through your liberal pea brain this time):

God was talking about an INDIVIDUAL responsibility to care for the poor, the sick, the widow and orphan. NOT a GOVERNMENTAL responsibility. In fact, by using GOVERNMENT as a proxy to absolve us of our INDIVIDUAL responsibility to care for the “least of these,” we are actually DISOBEYING God.

Got it?

I don’t see the sheep’s clothing on him, but he is an obvious Establishment Republcan. I suppose some see the sheep’s clothing on him thinking he’s got some Tea Party in him, but, like Chris Cristie, he’s not all that conservative.

Thanks for your opinion but you just don’t like anybody. You should leave this Country !

Tony says “The president and senator Rubio are natural born citizens.”

Tony, they may be citizens, but neither are “natural born” and as such should never qualify for the office of POTUS or VP. You, like all the others that don’t know squat about the term “natural born citizen” really need to take a close look at history and at least 4 Supreme Court cases that have defined “natural born citizen” and referenced the origin the founders used to determine who is a “natural born citizen” and who is not.
Article 2 Section 1 Clause 5 of the United States Constitution.

No person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of President; neither shall any Person be eligible to that Office who shall not have attained to the Age of thirty-five Years, and been fourteen Years a Resident within the United States.

Persons, eligible for the presidency, have no first generation ties to a foreign nation, whereas ineligible persons always do.

ALL statutory citizens are born with a tie to another nation by birthplace and/or blood, but NEVER is that the case with any natural born citizens who are only American.

A statutory citizen (bestowed by man’s pen) can never be a “natural born” citizen (bestowed by God/nature).

The term natural born citizen was first codified in writing in colonial reference books in 1758 in the legal reference book “Law of Nations.”

That legal reference book was used by John Jay, who later went on to become the first Chief Justice of the U.S. Supreme Court. Jay had the clause inserted into the Constitution via a letter he wrote to George Washington, the leader of the Constitutional Convention. Jay was considered the outstanding legal scholar of his time and he was the one is responsible for inserting that term into the U. S. Constitution, which was derived from the Law of Nations.

John Jay wrote: “Permit me to hint, whether it would be wise and reasonable to provide a strong check to the admission of Foreigners into the administration of our national Government; and to declare expressly that the Commander in Chief of the American army shall not be given to nor devolve on, any but a natural born Citizen.”

Emmerich de Vattel’s Law of Nations is almost beyond comparison in its value as a defining document regarding U. S. Constitution intent and interpretation. The Law of Nations, or the Principles of Natural Law, published in 1758, is the first, and ONLY, definitive work the Framers of the U. S. Constitution used for the inclusion of the “Natural Born Citizen” phrase. It nails what is meant by the “natural born citizen” phrase of Section 1, Article 2, of the U. S. Constitution.

“The natives, or natural-born citizens, are those born in the country, of parents who are citizens. As the society can not exist and perpetuate itself otherwise than by the children of the citizens, those children naturally follow the condition of their fathers, and succeed to all their rights. The society is supposed to desire this, in consequence of what it owes to its own preservation; and it is presumed, as a matter of course, that each citizen, on entering into society, reserves to his children the right of becoming members of it. THE COUNTRY OF THE FATHERS IS THEREFORE THAT OF THE CHILDREN.”

4 Supreme Court cases define “natural born citizen”.
1. The Venus, 12 U.S. 8 Cranch 253 253 (1814)
2. Shanks v. Dupont, 28 U.S. 3 Pet. 242 242 (1830)
3. Minor v. Happersett , 88 U.S. 162 (1875)
4. United States v. Wong Kim Ark, 169 U.S. 649 (1898)

It should be noted, that to define a term is to indicate the category or class of things which it signifies. In this sense, the Supreme Court of the United States has never applied the term “natural born citizen” to any other category than “those born in the country of parents who are citizens thereof”.

Hence every U.S. Citizen must accept this definition or categorical designation, and fulfil his constitutional duties accordingly. No member of Congress, no judge of the Federal Judiciary, no elected or appointed official in Federal or State government has the right to use any other definition; and if he does, he is acting unlawfully, because unconstitutionally.
http://www.fourwinds10.net/siterun_data/government/us_constitution/news.php?q=1308252582

Dear Sheryn:
What in God’s name are you talking about or inferring to? I swear ma’am you’re not too coherent. You need to reread my post to get the message. Thanks and get some help please!!

Tony, you are absolutely wrong! Neither obummer nor Rubio are “natural born” citizens! They are citizens but to be a “natural born” citizen, you must have been born in this country to parents who were citizens! obummer’s father was NOT a citizen and Rubio’s parents were NOT citizens (at the time of his birth). You cannot point to a pig and call it a cow over and over thinking that anyone other than fools will believe you!
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2710016/posts

Unfortunately, no Supreme Court decision made before 1939 can be relied on as argument………since the jurisdiction in which those decisions apply is no longer available.

You are now under admiralty and maritime law and the UCC….and as soon as you have the ability to embrace this, the sooner you will understand why all those “seemingly unconstitutional” things that are being…….are meeting no resistance from anyone in government.

All you have to do is LOOK at the statutes: UCC 1 -207 and 1-103

One might wonder why then do the Congressmen swear this oath?
“I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office on which I am about to enter. So help me God”.
Is it just a shell game like so many of the Progressives on this board engage in?

GALT, think not! Only if the usurpers prevail and I’m optomistic that will not happen anytime soon. The Constitution is the supreme law and I still have faith that it will continue as such, despite the attempts made by current and past administrations to ignore, skirt and violate it.

Obama’s real POTUS eligibility question, based on the fact that he is not a “natural born citizen”, is now being challenged…Arizona, Alabama and now Florida.

I refer you back to my original post and link on this.

Now why would that be a problem children……I believe if you look carefully……I mean really, really LOOK CAREFULLY…….you will see that “admiralty and maritime jurisdictions” are clearly included in article three…….how would that constitute a violation of the oath sworn………David?…………………………. Jeff? Unless you can make that relevant to my response……( all your cites are pre 1939 , are they not ? )

GALT, I’m getting the picture here. three forms of law were granted to the Constitution, common law, equity (contract law) and Admiralty law. Each had their own jurisdiction and purpose. From what I gather from known history our flag did not have a yellow fringe bordering three sides. The United States did not start putting flags with a yellow fringe on them in government buildings and public buildings until 1959.

First the appearance of our flag is defined in Title 4 sec. 1. U.S.C.. “The flag of the United States shall be thirteen horizontal stripes, alternate red and white; and the union of the flag shall be forty-eight stars, white in a blue field.” (Note – of course when new states are admitted new stars are added.)

*A foot note was added on page 1113 of the same section which says: “Placing of fringe on the national flag, the dimensions of the flag, and arrangement of the stars are matters of detail not controlled by statute, but within the discretion of the President as Commander-In-Chief of the Army and Navy.” – 1925, 34 Op.Atty.Gen. 483.

The president as military commander can add a yellow fringe to our flag. When would this be done? During a time of war. Why? A flag with a fringe is an ensign, a military flag. Read the following.

“Pursuant to U.S.C. Chapter 1, 2, and 3; Executive Order No. 10834, August 21, 1959, 24 F.R. 6865, a military flag is a flag that resembles the regular flag of the United States, except that it has a YELLOW FRINGE, bordered on three sides. The President of the United states designates this deviation from the regular flag, by executive order, and in his capacity as COMMANDER-IN-CHIEF of the Armed forces.”

Our system of law was changed without the public’s knowledge. It was kept secret. This is fraud. The American people were allowed to believe this was just a decoration. Because the law changed from Common Law (God’s Law) to Admiralty Law (the kings law) your status also changed from sovereign to subject. From being able to own property (allodial title) to not owning property (tenet on the land). If you think you own your property, stop paying taxes, it will be taken under the prize law.

When you walk into a court and see this flag you are put on notice that you are in a Admiralty Court and that the king is in control. Also, if there is a king the people are no longer sovereign.

When one enters a court room and comes before the judge and the U.S. flag with the yellow fringe flying, you are put on notice of the law you are in. American’s aren’t aware of this, so they continue to claim Constitutional rights. In the Admiralty setting the constitution does not apply and the judge, if pushed, will inform you of this by placing you under contempt for continuing to bring it up. If the judge is pressed, his name for this hidden law is statuary law. Where are the rules and regulations for statutory law kept? They don’t exist. If statuary law existed, there would be rules and regulations governing it’s procedures and court rules.

As the country’s court of last resort, the Supreme Court is an appellate body, vested with the authority to act in cases arising under the Constitution, laws, or treaties of the United States; in controversies to which the United States is a party; in disputes between states or between citizens of different states; and in cases of admiralty and maritime jurisdiction.

Treason in Government!
Admiralty on Land!!
http://www.barefootsworld.net/admiralty.html

GALT says:
———————————————-
Now why would that be a problem children……I believe if you look carefully……I mean really, really LOOK CAREFULLY…….you will see that “admiralty and maritime jurisdictions” are clearly included in article three…….how would that constitute a violation of the oath sworn………David?…………………………. Jeff? Unless you can make that relevant to my response……( all your cites are pre 1939 , are they not ? )
——————————————–

Article 3 covers ONLY what the Judicial branch of government has jurisdiction over.
“The judicial power of the United States, shall be vested in one Supreme Court, and in such inferior courts as the Congress may from time to time ordain and establish.”
http://www.law.cornell.edu/constitution/articleiii

This does not absolve Congress from fully defending the REST of the Constitution including and in particular the Bill of Rights which directly limits any possible power under imagined Martial Law. Remember that the Constitution is the supreme law of this land and not maritime law nor admiralty law nor martial law (nor Sharia law).

Thank You Vicki…you are correct. The Constitution is indeed the Law of the Land, and all of this chatter about admiralty law is completely irrelevent. Have you read the book “Arguing with idiots” ? That’s clearly what is going here, with “Galt”, and his alter-egos. I found particularly humorous, his reference to the States’ abbreviations having been changed many decades ago to dual capital letters, such as : WA, PA, MN, as though this is evidence of some conversion from Constitutional authority, to “admiralty law”….. which is preposterous to begin with. As a product of the 1960s, I remember first hand, when it was the United States Post Office, that standardized on the two-letter cap abbreviations, in order to accomodate their then newly installed automated letter sorting machines. THAT is why our states are abbreviated as PA, FL, WA, etc.

Evidently, facts and truth are elusive to Galt, so he instead makes them up as he goes along. Galt…here is a tip: Mis-stating facts, does not provide “plausible deniability” for being an idiot.

But that is precisely the problem, Vicki…..”admiralty and maritime” are the under the exclusive jurisdiction of congress…….all states have been changed to the equivalent
of the District of Columbia…..with two letter non punctuated abbreviations, MA instead of Mass. PA instead of Penn, and you have become VICKI instead of Vicki……just curious, have you ever signed your name VICKI?

Hopefully you realize that Washington D.C. is DIFFERENT than other places…except in 1935 they began the process of changing everything…and as Jeff notes it was completed
in 1959……..now it’s all the same……and without “law and equity” none of the rest of what you see in the Constitution can be relied on……..apparently they have left enough to keep this going……but you have to admit…….these seemingly unconstitutional things are glaring………….even now……..

No amendment was required to remove law and equity, they simply stopped providing courts dealing with those cases……..technically it’s still there, but you can only access it
by using UCC 1-207………which is a reservation of rights……that in law and equity are automatic……….UCC 1-103 says the the code can not be read to preclude the common law……..but that only applies IF you have reserved your rights under UCC 1-207.

If you have not done this ( and how could you possibly know it was necessary ) you are
deemed as having consented to be subject to “admiralty and maritime”……

Forms implying this consent are: SS Cards, Drivers License, and ID, Passports……you will also so note that you are VICKI, of anything that concerns $$$$$$$$, your use of American Currency is one of the benefits and privileges you enjoy in your new status…..you are also VICKI…….

Galt: Please change your ‘screen name” from Galt to “P.Keating”, or “E.Toohey”; either of which would be a far more appropriate Ayn Rand character refrence for you.

You have absolutely no idea what you’re talking about. Your ridiculous commentary on “Admiralty and Maritime law” is not only incorrect, but completely irrelevent.

“Admiralty” and “Maritime” law, are one and the same, so save some space here and stop referring to them as though they represent different statutes.

Furthmore, admiralty law; is a distinct body of law which governs maritime questions and offenses ONLY I’ll repeat that….. it governs maritime questions and offenses ONLY. It is a body of both domestic law governing maritime activities, and private international law governing the relationships between private entities which operate vessels on the oceans. It deals with matters including marine commerce, marine navigation, shipping, sailors, and the transportation of passengers and goods by sea. It also covers many commercial activities that may be land based or occurring wholly on land, but only when they are are maritime in character.

None of this, has anything to do, with the Bill of Rights, or the United States Constitution, except for the latter document’s definitions and enforcement thereof.

Please stop insulting everyone’s intelligence, with your feeble attempts to display your own (your lack thereof notwithstanding).

Galt exposes himself yet again. Another of many unprovoked personal attacks — “Now why would that be a problem children”.
Please stick around, Galt. You have become one of our best poster boys as an example of Progressive disrespect and manipulation. I can’t think of anybody better to wake up the innocent to the reality of where immoral, manipulative people like yourself are taking this country.

The simple answer is that the Congressmen swear to uphold the Constitution. Not part of it. All of it. Even if the Congressmen are holding their crossed fingers behind their backs during the recitation, they are still lying to the American public (Like the Progressives do on a regular basis):
For those who don’t know what it says, look right here (certainly don’t take Galt’s word for it):
https://www.cato.org/constitution/constitution_en.html

Fancy seeing you here DavidH……….

“When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth”. Sherlock Holmes’s aka A.C. Doyle

BTW if they are all lying when they take the “oath”, then both Paul’s and Nepolitano would be on that list, would they not? and that would be treason, would it not?

Way to go, annebeck58!!! I agree with you!!!

Guess you’re staying home this Novemeber then?

You say you will not vote for a known liar, but then go on to say that you will vote for Obama, lolz, you’re a complete idiot, another useful fool for the “one” There isn’t enough space here to list all of Obamas known lies!

Let me guess…you voted for the scum bag cheat in the WH now???

Never said I was voting for Obama, just said I wasn’t voting for Mitt. Either read and understand what I am saying or skip over my posts. Either way is fine by me but don’t put words in my mouth or credit me with saying things I never said. I said Mitt is a liar, a thief and a cheat. I said he stashes his money away to avoid paying taxes you and I must pay. I said Mitt would so anything to gain the Whitehouse, tell any lie, and would go so far as to sell his own mother into slavery if he thought that would get him the Oval Office. What is so hard to understand about that? I refuse to fall in line with the rest of the sheep following the Judas Goat into the slaughterhouse but you do as you will if it makes you feel better. Following a man that has no differences between Obama and himself other than a little “R” after his name. Jump off that cliff and see if you land happy or broke.

RON PAUL HAS NOT GIVEN UP YET . HE HAS SAID EVERYTHING I WANT TO HEAR …………….I will not follow the BUSH FAMILY ENDORSING ROMNEY ………………RON PAUL FOR PRESIDENT ………..

Steve,
If you’re waiting for consistency from Liberals/Progressives, you are going to be waiting for a very long time.

You seem to be forgetting that the mindset of the American people today, as a result of obama’s atrocities, is the now famous slogan “Anybody But Obama” which they will carry with them to the polls. I loathe Romney but he’ll have my vote because he’s not obama.

PLEASE DO NOT FOLLOW ROMNEY IN BLIND FAITH , JUST BECAUSE THE BUSH FAMILY SAID SO . …………………RON PAUL FOR PRSIDENT

Thank you!
I always find it very funny that anyone who’s paid attention (obviously, these folk have not) would chose either Obama OR Romney. Honestly, what is the point of having an election when it is between these two (one)? RomBamney and their bots do not get it. NWO, larger – oppressive toward all other countries– government, bigger military, less money and fewer people in the US to DEFEND US, stealing from Medicare// Social Security funds, to continue to instigate more wars; inspiring hatred all over the world, toward ALL of US, all of the USA, is Obamnney.
Who can spell out for me even ONE differing opinion between them.him, these plastic men? Not any of these voting for him/them could, or they would not be voting for him.
If anyone actually hears all three (including Paul) one is only left to GO with PAUL, or this country is done. The whole WORLD is not only watching our (s)elections, but they are BEGGING US to go with Paul. There’s good reason for that. Nobody wants to either be the next country WE bomb or be our allies and have themselves forced to bomb other nations of people, including many civilians, who have done not ONE THING to or against US.
Yet these sill war-mongers argue among themselves, while not knowing the first thing re: what they ARE arguing for or against.

Rombama//Obamney. Who cares? Either of them is selected in 2012 and the USA is done-for. With Ron Paul and we stand at least a slight chance of fixing some things. Yet they will fight to the death, working tirelessly and endlessly toward their own demise. I wouldn’t have such a huge problem with it, were they also not taking US/USA down with themselves.
What a bunch of foolish know-nothing tools for the NWO/Bilberberg/Bankster/Fraudster jerks. And, they don’t have the slightest idea this is what they’re doing, for if they had, they WOULD go RON PAUL.
When, if ever, will they get that the one-percent is an elite group, and not one of the tools responding (here) is a part of it?

WAKE UP AMERICA before we are DONE. Okay?

CONTRAR Annabeck , THE REST OF THE WORLD ……. I S …..watching what we do . AMERICA is part of the g – 2 0 WORLD GOVERNMENT …………ALL THE OTHER NATIONS OF THE WORLD CARE VERY MUCH WHAT WE ARE DOING . DO YOU ACTUALLY BELEIVE , THE AMERICAN PEOPEL ELECT OUR OWN LEADER . Why must a state delegate tell me who I am allowed to vote for . Media says , SANTORUM WON THE LOUISIANA PRIMARY ….STATE DELEGATES GAVE IT TO ROMNEY . Peoples choice vote was useless. ………………………RON PAUL FOR PRESIDENT .

Lady Kroft writes
—————————————————–
I loathe Romney but he’ll have my vote because he’s not obama.
—————————————————–

Do you also loathe Ron Paul? If not then vote for Dr. Paul. He fits your requirement of being NOT obama and fits it MUCH better then obama spelled with an R.

A Kool-Aid-soaked Obamadinejad drone calling ROMNEY a crony capitalist?? BWAAAA-HAHAHAHAHAHAaaaaaaa

D’oh, misplaces reply, sorry…

agreed rob!!

The economy; Mitt’s specialty is to fire people (just like his friend Donald (the Birther) Trump, and send jobs overseas.
National Security; President Obama has been steadily training our Intelligence and Military on the top terrorist leaders and taking them out. President Obama got our combat troops out of Iraq ahead of schedule (we had no business there anyway) and is working on doing the same in Afghanistan.
Marriage as we know it; Mitt has at least four grandmothers and half of heterosexual marriages end in divorce. I think a little tinkering to allow two adults who really love and care for each other to marry is not a bad idea and I’m pretty sure God’s cool with that too since God is love.
Look at the facts, we are in much better shape now then when President Obama took office.

I am NOT defending Obama but it seems you need some real numbers:

national debt (accumulated deficits)
Deficit 2009 – inherited from Bush 1.4 trillion
deficit 2010 – 1.2 trillion – 200 billion dollar cut
If we cut defense spending back to 2000 levels and let Bush’s tax cut expire, it would cut that number by another 700 billion

Defense spending:
defense 2008 – 730 billion
defense 2012 – 903 Billion
Yup certainly looks like Obama is gutting defense…………

Whether they finance it with Taxes, John, or with Borrowing, it’s the Spending that is the problem. And that hasn’t stopped under Obama. And it will accelerate greatly when the full impact of the Healthcare Bill hits.
What’s keeping Obama from cutting back this spending?
http://www.usgovernmentspending.com/spending_chart_2000_2011USb_13s1li111mcn_F0f_US_Federal_Spending

Aaaaaaaahhhhhh……WHATS UP DOC! Whooooaaah! you been smokin’ the wacky stuff this morning Doccy?!

We’re better off huh!?!

Wow, can you believe this guy?!

Ken,
We’re better off huh!?!
YUP.
Wow, can you believe this guy?!
YUP.

Doc,
ROFL! So let’s see if I have this straight…we’re “better off” because we now have FEWER Americans working among a much larger population now than when Obama inherited the Pelosi-Reid collapse “from Bush”???

Dave,

“Whether they finance it with Taxes, John, or with Borrowing, it’s the Spending that is the problem.”

Tax cuts and spending increases have the same end result – higher national debt.
They do exactly the same thing, put more money into peoples pockets to stimulate the economy. At least that is the theory.

How the spending is financed just as critical. There is a simple correlation, the more you borrow, the less your money is worth. If it were announced tomorrow that Bush tax cuts were going to be allowed to expire – the dollar would jump in value.

http://www.tradingeconomics.com/united-states/currency

As Bush drove the national debt up the value of the dollar tumbled. Which has put us in the position of having our credit rating cut. Of course not only did Bush cut taxes, but he increased spending by about 200%.

On the flip side Clinton raised taxes and the republican congress kept his spending under control so we came closer to a balanced budget than we have in 30 years. And the economy took off.

OK you tell me, What can Obama do to cut spending? He inherited a 1.4 trillion dollar deficit.
Bush cut taxes by 400 billion – should we let that expire?
Bush increased military spending by about 400 billion – should we cut that?
Bush started an unfunded 200 billion dollar prescription drug plan – should we cut that?

one Trillion deficit so far – from the previous administration

Bush started two unfunded wars which Obama added to, should we pull all of our troops home?
Obama started health care reform – we still don’t know what that will cost
Obama has spent 500 billion in stimulus money – should we quit this? (about the same as one year of Bush tax cuts or military increase)
Social security – this is going to be the biggest debt the USA faces, should we terminate that?

It is simple to say cut spending but where do you start? More importantly how do you get a consensus when the two major parties have such different views of the correct course of action?

THERE IS A SIMPLE SOLUTION TO AMERICAN ECONOMY . Outlaw corporate bankruptcies , put the people back to work , stop the automation of AMERICA put the people back to work , require the housing banking industry to refinance a home loan , in case of job loss or medical disaster , PUT THE PEOPLE BACK TO WORK , re instate MEDICAL RESEARCH FUNDING , CURE ALL DISEASE , PUT THE PEOPLE BACK TO WORK ………………. Any commodity we talk about will PUT THE PEOPLE BACK TO WORK . Gas price at the pump should be around 5 0 cents per gallon . …THERE IS A SIMPLE SOLUTION TO AMERICAN ECONOMY …..You are wearing it . ……………..RON PAUL FOR PRESIDENT .

John,
Whether the spending is financed with Taxes, in which case money is being taken from the productive Private Sector and spent by the wasteful Government sector, or the spending is financed with Borrowing, thus crowding out credit that would have been used by the productive private sector and remaining on the books for future generations of taxpayers to pay, the results will be the same — a Worsening Economy.
http://mises.org/daily/3020

BBJ,

What Bush II and congress did is in the past. Today, the Ohmama administration to include the Polosi/Reid then Boehner/Reid congress has accounted for 1/3rd of the total US deficit. Are you proud that mainly Democrats have put this country in such debt and yes I also include republicans in that same picture

Bigbadjohn, a deficit is essentially Revenue minus expenses that are greater than the revenue coming in.

I tend to be more concerned with how much debt this country has. In the fiscal year ending in 2008 (Bush’s last yr) our debt was $10 trillion. At the end of fiscal year end 2012 the projected debt is $16.4 trillion, so in 4 years our Federal Debt will have increased by $6.4 trillion. The projected 2013 fiscal year end debt is $17.5 trillion, meaning we will rack up an additional 1.3 trillion
(http://www.usgovernmentspending.com/federal_debt_chart.html

However, if you prefer the deficit numbers (according to the US Govt) at the end of 2008 (Bush’s last year) the deficit was .5 trillion or half a trillion
http://www.usgovernmentspending.com/breakdown_2008USrt_13rs5n

2009 which includes the stimulus packages was $1.4 trillion
http://www.usgovernmentspending.com/breakdown_2009USrt_13rs5n

2010 was $1.3 trillion
http://www.usgovernmentspending.com/breakdown_2010USrt_13rs5n

2011 was $1.3 trillion
http://www.usgovernmentspending.com/breakdown_2011USrt_13rs5n

2012 is projected to also be $1.3 trillion in the hole
http://www.usgovernmentspending.com/breakdown_2011USrt_13rs5n

So, if we are “better off” please explain why our deficit is as high, each year, as it was in 2009 when we did the bailouts?

Texas , those numbers do not mean anything . THERE IS A SIMPLE SOLUTION TO AMERICAN ECONOMY , …ALL OF CONGRESS KNOWS IT . You are wearing it , driving it . RON PAUL WANTS TO GET RID OF 1 TRILLION DOLLARS DEBT IN 1st year ???????? Every governor in every state can create jobs tomorrow . Congress is holding AMERICAN economy back for a reason . ….THERE IS A SIMPLE SOLUTION TO AMERICAN ECONOMY . There should not be a housing morgage problem . This was advertised last election , see what happened with that . There should not be an unemployment number . I LOST MY JOB BECAUSE THE COMPANY FILED BANKRUPTCY . Those company owners should have gone to jail for embezzling the labor force . ……………………….THERE IS A SIMPLE SOLUTION TO AMERICAN ECONOMY . I will continue to support RON PAUL for president .

When people speak of our debt they never include the unfounded liabilities such as social security, medicare and federal employee pensions etc… Including tose our debt is MUCH higher. Here’s a great picture to give you an idea how much that money is.
http://demonocracy.info/infographics/usa/us_debt/us_debt.html
Seriously! You have to see this to believe it.

Texas
The only way to get a true idea what the deficit is to look at the national debt and subtract from year to year. Keep in mind presidents run from January to January.
http://www.treasurydirect.gov/NP/BPDLogin?application=np

Yes I agree Obama has run the debt up radically.
Answer the question, what should be cut? Military, tax cuts, prescription drug plan, Social security, medicare, Obamacare, military and government pensions?????

Regardless of which issue you pick there will be a group of people who will object – period.
Both parties have drastically different opinions of what to cut. Unfortunately republicans have decided that inaction on their part reflects as inaction on Obama’s part. so nothing is getting done.

The first things to cut, as Ron Paul has stated in his 12-page Budget proposal, are useless and unconstitutional Federal Departments:

If Rep. Ron Paul were to become president, he would cut his own salary to less than $40,000 a year, end five cabinet-level departments, audit the Federal Reserve, end all foreign wars, and trim the federal workforce by 10 percent.

On Paul’s chopping block are the Departments of Energy, Commerce, Interior, Education, and Housing and Urban Development. He would privatize the Federal Aviation Administration and the Transportation Security Administration while freezing spending for most other departments. He also plans to repeal President Obama’s signature healthcare law, as well as the Dodd-Frank and Sarbanes-Oxley financial regulations.

The plan would freeze spending for Medicaid and a few other social programs like the Child Nutrition Program, changing them into block grants to the states and moving them from the mandatory spending section of the federal budget to the discretionary spending section, which means the programs’ budgets would need to be approved by Congress annually.

Paul’s desired presidential salary of $39,336—what the campaign identifies as the approximate median personal income of American workers—is a way “to stand with the American People,” the plan explains.

[Read: Ron Paul sees a path to Super Tuesday success.]

There is one notable area of government that would survive Paul’s knife. Department of Veterans Affairs funding would continue to increase at the currently scheduled levels, according to the plan. Howard says that Paul believes that since “you send people all over the world to fight for America and to fight for freedom, we shouldn’t be cutting any benefits once they get back.”

Again, this is no surprise. Paul, who served as a flight surgeon in the U.S. Air Force, has emphasized his support for veterans in the past, including through a campaign ad called that featured former soldiers appreciating his advocacy on their behalf and calling him “a veteran’s best friend.”

Paul has also said that support from active-duty members of the military is a sign he is on the right track with his push to end foreign wars and cut military spending. “We don’t know about this quarter,” Paul said at a recent luncheon at the National Press Club, “but so far I’ve gotten more than twice as much money from active military duty than all the other Republican candidates put together, so that should be a message.”

amen dave my thoughts also

I agree. When the lights go out, you can’t tell either one of them apart. The love of money and this case money and power, is the root of all evil and this country is run by evil, money and power hungry people with no concern whatsoever of the outcome. We’ve seen it over and over again.

I agree with all three of you!!!

eddie , look at the other side . 1st ALL POLITICS IS THE SAME . If you put any faith in the voting process , THE VOTERS said …NO MORE UNION INFLUENCE IN HOW I VOTE . Take the teachers union as prime example . MAY BE the biggest labor union in AMERICA . TEACHERS UNION IS DEMOCRATIC BASED . Teachers union endorsed Obama last election . WHEN I HEARD THAT OVER THE RADIO WORLD NEWS , …..I KNEW THE ELECTION WAS OVER . …ADD THE WELFARE POPULATION TO IT ……..DONE DEAL . The voters have said , DO NOT TELL ME HOW TO VOTE . ……………..With that said , NOW , the REPUBLICANS MUST STAND UP , and stop following the leader over the cliff. The BUSH family has endorsed MITT ROMNEY . From what I am seeing , the voters in the REPUBLICAN PARTY , ARE FOLLOWING THE LEADER OVER THE CLIFF, BECAUSE DADDY BUSH SAID SO . ………………….RON PAUL FOR PRESIDENT . …I am aware son RAND is quoted to endorse Romney . That makes me feel so defeated ……I will continue to support …RON PAUL FOR PRESIDENT .

Unless Libertarians can stop the Upward hemorrhaging on Wall Street those wealthy crooks will keep stealing from America. My bet is that Wall Street and company will continue to be cunning,devious and extremely greedy no matter who gets elected. The Libertarians will be no different and maybe worse in allowing them to ply their “trade”.

For intelligent readers (guess that leaves you out, Zarnio):
http://mises.org/freemarket_detail.aspx?control=485

DaveH,
The “Free Market” is a very good article but I wouldn’t count on Zarnio ever reading it, let alone thinking about what is said.

And Pigs can fly now.
http://spectator.org/blog/2010/12/02/federal-register-hits-75000-pa

What ” IS ” your point . The pig flew over my head ……………..

I too will write in a vote for Ron Paul. I will not try to convince, sway, nor convert anyone’s choice in this matter. Honor dictates my choice and this country was based on honor. I will not settle for the lessor of two evils. When I meet my maker, I will be able to say that “I did what was best for my family, my friends and my country”. Will you?

Exactly: JPMorgan, Goldman Sachs, etc ALL LEFT THEIR CUSHY BANKSTER JOBS to go work in the Obama Admin.

But if you believe Obummer’s campaign, Mitt is the ONLY person in bed with the same people.

And the general public is just dumb enough to buy it.

And yes, if people haven’t figured it out yet – I support Dr. Ron Paul – the voice of SANITY and an Honest American FOR AMERICANS (not just the country but the PEOPLE)

I’d guess she buys lottery tickets, too. It’s the same principle – someone very desperate figures she doesn’t have enough money to do anything, so she bets what she has on extremely long odds in the hope that a gigantic payoff will come through. Of course, whoever takes her bet almost certainly has just taken money off a poor woman.

It’s wiser to save that money – if you put the lottery money in a jar every time you would have otherwise bought a ticket, eventually (and not as far away as you might think) you would have enough to do something!

Do you feel it because he black the reason the United States is in the mess is the white man not black. you had 43 President and they all was white who should we blame the THE WHITE MAN.

Joe, don’t turn this into a racial thing. There are racists on both sides. His race has nothing to do with the fact that he’s trying to turn our country to socialism. He is destroying our rights and freedoms. Now, that’s not to say romney will be any better. He won’t! You are right about the “white men” getting us into this mess but it has nothing to do with color. It is greed and lust for money that has gotten into this mess. Don’t be distracted by color. Insist that our representatives represent us! You have to admit that obummer hasn’t done anything to improve the conditions of black people. Don’t be fooled. he is no different from the rest except that he’s rushing us toward a communistic country. He is a communist plant. Only ignorant people will let race divide us. Don’t be one of them.

@Joe – Did YOU vote for him BECAUSE he’s black???!!! Well guess what – his absolute incompetence has NOTHING to do with his skin color!! YOU demean him by bringing race into this! Shame on YOU!!!

Rob, you’re the one who needs to wake up. We’re already worse off than Europe. It’s just being hidden. The bankers are swapping interest rates (derivatives) that are making our currency appear stronger than it is. People are rushing to the dollar to get out of the Euro but the dollar is actually worse. Collapse is coming! It’s only a matter of when, not if. The bankers are up to their necks in derivatives which is what brought the crash in 2008. But then they had $176 trillion and now they have $244 trillion. It’s all a game to see how long they can put it off. You and I will be the losers!

So accordinfg to Joe we are racist if we dont vote for the wigger? Joe he is not 100% black, and where did black come into Waynes’s article? You are racist Joe.

Depends what Europe you refer to. Norway is one example of a very well run country and so are some of the other Skandinavian countries.
all of Europe is not as bad as the southern countries like Italy and Spain. And the debt in the US is worse than Europe. Wake up if you think you are better off than Europe.

Did you not know that Obama is half a$$ white, so smoke that over.

Joe, The performance of the President has nothing to do with skin color. He is just as white as he is black in fact. That would be like saying I was a Native American president or an Italian president since I have both ethnic backgrounds.

Fact is…Obama is a sorry president. We have had sorry ones before….I agree…skin color was not a factor then and is not a factor now. Stop trying to play the race card. It’s old and it’s tired and frankly, not relevant.

Or maybe we’d become like (*Gulp* I just threw up a little in my mouth trying to say this…) Canada??? God hates filthy, rotten Canada!

But He loves Mexico!

‘Know why? NO BIG GOVERNMENT. You can get somebody killed down there for a few hundred bucks. There’s lots of kidnappings and shootings among the middle class and poor people, but who cares?

Rich people are doin’ okay, so…what’s not to like?

Joe, if you are as closed minded as you are illiterate and obviously black, it’s no wonder you blame the whites for your problems.As long as you wander in the fields of racism and self pity you will never be anything but dumb and black. Look at all the blacks that have done something for themselves because they had the balls and gumption to do something with their lives besides whine. Clarence Thomas, Collin Powell, Conoleeza Rice ,and the list goes on. Go back to your dope and self pity and leave decent folks alone.

Joe has played the race card. Classic 5th column strategy.

“The general principles on which the fathers achieved independence were the general principles of Christianity. I will avow then that I believed, and now believe, that those general principles of Christianity are as eternal and immutable as the existence and attributes of God.”

John Adams

These are what we should be going by and not the ways of socialism, welfare, and people being lazy and not wanting to work. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

P.S. You need both love of country and fear of God to be a patriot.

NANCY IN NEBRASKA , this thing IS about racism . THE WELFARE POPULATION IS BIGGER THAN IT HAS EVER BEEN , add the teachers union to it . The cash for clunkers 3 years ago was created for the welfare population . SOCIAL SECURITY PAID FOR IT ALL …………………..RON PAUL FOR PRESIDENT .

Medalrider- Obama is little different from any other democrat president yet he has caught more heel, faced more ridicule, dealt with more obstructionism from the Rethuglican legislature and had BY FAR more completely false stuff written about him than any Democrat before and there IS ONLY one real difference between he and other Democrat presidents before him and we all know what that is despite the protestations and hollow claims of his incompetence or extremism which hold no water.

That’s our problem. The Presidents aren’t supposed to manage the whole country. No man can manage a country. It is Unconstitutional for a President to manage the whole country. But since when has that stopped them?
The best that Government could do is get out of the way and let the private sector do what they do best — inadvertently create good economies.
Speaking of the economy:
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/stock-index-futures-signal-pause-093302524.html

Will the Federal Reserve and its Media Lackeys ever admit the truth — that the investors bid up the price of stocks upon Fed easing because they know inflation is in our future and the prices of everything will go up, including stocks? If creating new fiat money “boosted” the economy why not just create new money every day? There would be no poor countries if all it took was creating new money — ask Zimbabweans.
I Hope and Dream that someday people will wake up to the reality that our Founders were aware of over 200 years ago — Big Government is bad for our Freedom and for our Prosperity, and Leaders specialize in parasitizing the people.

WARNING, WARNING………The following post is one of a series, that will continue until a resolution occurs, my apologies to other poster’s on this site, and to Mr. Livingston, our host. Please feel free to skip over what is written here, as it may or may not be related to the topic under discussion………

Episode 3 : the MIND of David H. in action, which might suggest that it might be exciting…..but don’t get your hopes up….it is not.

Brief Recap of the previous episodes…….Episode One: The history regarding the period of 1919 thru 1945 as detailed in: The Lords of Finance and that these events “present a number of problems for those who believe that returning to the GOLD STANDARD” is the solution to our present situation. The result: none of the facts were shown to be in error, although David did provide the correct name for the British Banker: Montagu Norman, for which he was thanked. After several attempts to isolate individual elements, to misdirect attention from these “problems”, what we are left with is a GOLD STANDARD which is “a thing apart” from everything else……that is to say, if there were no banks, no fractional reserve requirements, no government, and no people, the GOLD STANDARD would work just fine…….and I agree……unfortunately, in that situation there are no problems for which it is required as a solution.

Episode 2: with guest star: Robert Smith……which provides further evidence of David’s ability to actually comprehend what is being said, yet being unable to resist responding……..attempting to argue or refute something which exists only in his imagination…….we will continue this EXPOSURE in tonights episode. ( no response attempted by David…..could he be learning? )

Episode 3 : Glass Steagal with special guest star : Big Bad John

BigBadJohn says: June 5, 2012 at 5:15 pm
Dave
TOTAL deregulation – we have never had it. But the repeal of Glass Steigal should give you a good idea what deregulation causes. When you make it legal for someone to gamble with and steal other peoples money – they do.

DaveH says: June 5, 2012 at 6:54 pm
That which you blame on Glass-Steagall being altered, John,
is the fault of the Federal Reserve, Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac,
the CRA, and many other Government interventions into the Marketplace.

Read this to get a clearer picture of reality:History of Money and Banking

The Glass-Steagall Act was merely a tool used by the Rockefellers
and their pals to hobble their competition, the Morgans and their
pals. If you’d read the books I’ve recommended, John, you would
know that most regulations are strictly created to hobble
politically connected businesses’ competition. They’re
playing you like a fiddle.

IN THE MIND OF DAVIDH: magical things happen…..the repeal
of Glass Steagall becomes “altered” while the effects of the
repeal, are caused by “something else”……which had nothing
to do with the repeal, but in combination with other things,
produced the same results as what happened in 1929. This time
“the problem” is “free market capitalism”…….which is David’s
solution…….and must be defended at all costs. ( because
the EVIDENCE points to it DIRECTLY as being the CAUSE
in both cases 1929 and 2007 and continuing. )

DavidH has defined the “free market capitalism” as “free
(unregulated ) markets” comprised of “voluntary transactions”
………..which are precisely the conditions that existed on Wall
St in 1929, for which both the SEC and Glass Steagall were
introduced as potential corrections, and with the repeal
of the latter, they existed again for the “derivatives” market
……….DavidH has been asked to produce “evidence” that this
market did not meet the conditions of his definition and his
response to this point has been: The people who were
participating in this market were “crony capitalists”. It is
not an answer to the question asked and it is NOT true.

David’s link is to Rothbard’s book, Title noted above, copyright
by von mises inst. 2002 has been edited by someone, is 429
plus pages and may possibly contain some material that is
relevant, although if it did; a page location or a direct quote
would be far more useful……..he can not be bothered to
provide this, but he expects you to read the entire book
……to confirm or deny his speculations…….which are
irrelevant, to the point of the “argument” taking place.

BigBadJohn says: June 5, 2012 at 10:20 pm
Dave,
You are right most regulations are passed to give one industry
or the other an advantage.

CONGRATULATIONS DAVID……..he has successfully misdirected
John, so now the argument is not about the effects of DEREGULATION
( the crashes of 29 and 07 ) but regulation…….

DaveH says: June 6, 2012 at 12:18 am
John,
You need to learn the difference between Regulations (passed
by unelected bureaucrats) and Laws (passed by elected
Congressmen). Those things that really do matter, and
by that I mean that a super-majority of people agree with,
could be codified explicitly in law.

WHY WOULD HE NEED TO KNOW THAT, DAVID H? Statute’s
appear in the USC, and if the statute requires an implimenting
regulation, that can be found in the CFR……….as demonstrated
by the following 26 USC 3402 and 26 CFR 31:3402 ( p ) CFR is
the Congressional Federal Register. Both processes suffer
from possible outside influences……in fact, because we have
the best government money can buy, the possibility of
anything being EXPLICIT is absurd.
The implimenting regulations are based on statutes passed
by congress.

THE MIND OF DAVID H. is made up………he knows the
solutions and the answers.

He can not defend them when questioned, he can not defend his definitions when challenged, and if he can not manage to escape, by evasion and misdirection……..questions and challenges and the evidence that he is avoiding them become PERSONAL ATTACKS and DISPARAGEMENT.

DaveH says:
June 5, 2012 at 6:43 pm
What? The pretentious faux-erudite Galt, whose comments are largely composed of personal attacks, is asking me what Mirage said that was name-calling? Moron (that was an answer to your question).

Thus endith Episode 4.

Dear GALT,

You write: “The following post is one of a series, that will continue until a resolution occurs, my apologies to other poster’s on this site, and to Mr. Livingston, our host.” No. It will not. This ends it.

Best wishes,
Bob

At least she could write. I can tell that you are very smart, it is very obvious judging you by your grammatical superiority. It is funny that you conservatives always think that nobody else but you works for a living. Obama voters according to you only extend their hand to get something for nothing. It’s quite the opposite in my estimation, especially if I look down south, or in rural communities out west. I believe you are the one who should do some research and it should not involve Limbaugh or Hannity. No Sir…

Mr. Livingston, well that would appear to be quite authoritatively expressed…….but I am not sure what you are ending, or for what reason……..?

It does not appear to be a violation of your “rules” or guidelines, and it certainly does not qualify as a personal attack, unless the use of DavidH name, and engaging in a discussion with him…….or rather the attempt to engage in a discussion with him…..
is in fact a personal attack? Is it?

Clearly, he is not up to the task……and he does require some assistance, but you would have done far better to have offered this guidance to him earlier on…….rather than let him run free……..because eventually someone was going to come along, and not be distracted
by his tactics, actually test his abilities to remain focused, defend his ideas and answer the questions that were asked………..and avoid being intimidated by “insults and baiting” and goaded into responding in kind……..and he was warned that all that was required to do this was the evidence provided by him.

Now clearly you have the POWER here……and you are free to use it.

Doesn’t quite seem quite in keeping with the claimed goals of PLD,
for power exercised without reason does not quite reflect anything those
“revered founders” you keep referring to would approve of?

It does seem familiar though,hhhhmmmm oh yeah, Stalin: “No man, no problem”.

Dear GALT,

You write: “Mr. Livingston, well that would appear to be quite authoritatively expressed…….but I am not sure what you are ending, or for what reason……..?” I am ending your posting of exceptionally long posts that irrelevant to the article at hand before it becomes habit. This is the second one of these I’ve seen in recent days. The person you are debating is not relevant to my decision.

You write: “It does seem familiar though,hhhhmmmm oh yeah, Stalin: “No man, no problem”. Non sequitur.

Best wishes,
Bob

DaveH, you most certainly deserve a “Medal of Honor”. Anytime someone, like yourself, becomes the focus of “direct personal attacks” by a progressive shill leads one to wonder if Galt is under the same employ as a few others that tend to frequent this website.

I think you’ve upset poor Galt’s employer…that’s a good thing.

First Galt says — “or rather the attempt to engage in a discussion with him…..
is in fact a personal attack? Is it?”
Then he says immediately afterward — “Clearly, he is not up to the task……and he does require some assistance”.
And then he proceeds to insinuate that Bob, the owner of the website, is like Stalin.
No personal attacks there. Sure.
Seek help, Galt.

I enjoyed your powerful rebuttal GALT and taking DaveH to task. I find David most deserving with his continual ranting of what the founding fathers “intended” and the “correctness” and “rightfulness” of their ideas and hopes they might be used to govern the nation we have grown “into” today from 50 million to 327 million people. Growing from a people that burned whale oil to nuclear reactors.

That there were need for amendments to these “intention” to make government actually “work” , David most willing to GLOSS over. Claiming to be a Constitutionist as long as it might endure his modifications.

But you are found off topic, ~ This thread is about Obama losing the 2012 general election. That is what they want to talk about.

Like a proper dog training, ~ any correction to error is wasted if you cannot catch them in the act.

It’s a Progressive thing, Jeff. They have no logical or experiential legs to support their nonsense, so they must use personal attacks, obfuscation, and other manipulative methods in their vain efforts to win an argument.

yes, JeffH………just LOOK at those direct personal attacks……..imagine actually using
David’s own words to question his claim to having both the answer’s and solution’s to the problems of the U.S………..and my god, the nerve of ME to ask a QUESTION and then WAITING for the answer……not letting him change the subject.

True it would seem quite novel as well as disturbing to those who believe they own the schoolyard in this “ditto head” fairyland……..and maybe Mr. Livingston will save you all from actually having to “understand” what is being said and respond to it intelligently.

DavidH was told at the outset that I was NOT his enemy, but he, like a few others decided to ignore that………and take a shot anyway, which is foolish when you lack the basic reading comprehension skills required, as Vigilant found out yesterday….with his foolish
personal attack on San Rolley, whose simple journalism was not an endorsement or condemnation of the subject of his article…..

But since you have decided to join the party…..please feel free to cite the “personal attacks” that appear in the above post………?

You do understand that was a question, don’t you?

Deer,
Hong Kong has one of the most robust economies in the world and their population density is three times that of the most densely populated state in our union. Your population argument doesn’t wash. But then what can we expect from a guy who thinks Galt’s comment is anything but a very verbose, very illogical attempt to harass me into submission?
For those who want to see actual experience with Big Government, look here for some reality:
http://heritage.org/index/ranking

It would be one thing if the Progressives lacked logic but actually had some experience to back them up. But they don’t. All they have are manipulation and words that appeal to ignorant peoples’ emotions.

Government spent 3% of our GDP in 1900.
Now they spend 40% of our GDP.
Note that comparing it to a percentage of our Gross Domestic Product takes into account the population size difference. But even if it somehow didn’t, the population has grown 6 times in size since 1900, but the Government has grown 13 times in size since 1900.
And where are the results from that Leviathan Government? Apparently the Progressives are forgetting that we’re in a 3-year long economic slump with no end in sight.

Galt,
You drew first blood long ago, and have been doing copious amounts of that since. My personal attacks against you are dwarfed by those you have launched. The regular readers know that. Even the Liberal readers probably know that, but they wouldn’t admit it because they share your agenda.
If you bring a gun to a knife fight, Galt, don’t expect me to come defenseless.

And personally, Galt, I’m rooting for Bob Livingston not to shut you down, because you are a perfect example of what we’re in for if we let the Progressives take any further control of our lives. And I’m betting that you are waking up more people than you think — only in the opposite direction than that you advocate.

For Deerinwater……..well that would be an interesting escape valve for Mr. Livingston, but I included that in my apology while Mr. Livingston did not include it in his………..

well, I’m not really sure what it is…………but you will note that the sharks are gathering,
hoping for a meal……….even DavidH couldn’t resist……..even though he still can’t respond.

You will note the quality of this response: with shill and progressive…….but no argument,
which I guess means that……..saying that no argument has been made…..means???????

Que sera, sera!

Dear GALT,

You write: “but I included that in my apology while Mr. Livingston did not include it in his.” I don’t recall issuing an apology.

Best wishes,
Bob

Well there you have it Mr. Livingston…….DavidH claims that he doesn’t require your protection………..and HOPES that…….I will remain.

Of course, this could be a carefully orchestrated ploy, planned in advance…..since the outcome is already known………………….

So what’s it gonna be………you gonna let your boy into the ring, again?

And David……if you want back in, Episode 3 is right there…….go for it.

“Hong Kong has one of the most robust economies in the world and their population density is three times that of the most densely populated state in our union. Your population argument doesn’t wash.”

Correct, ! ~ not if we are talking about comparing a constitutional government of a nation that is a mere 247 years old , of 230 million people and comparing it to a Communist government of a nation 1.3 billion people strong that claim to be a “republic” and a nation that go back to 500 BC.

and Hong Kong is a city, not a nation, that enjoys a certain amount of immunity ~ and has became a huge HUGE gateway. ~~ and a poor choice of cities to make you argument, to anyone that has a clue.

Even if we might considered your argument worthy David, ~ you only bring forward matters of economics, there more to life then $ money.

David……”that you are not up to the task” is not a personal attack…….it is evidenced by the fact that you have NOT responded…..to episode 2 and now 3……..forcing me to chase you down here……….

and you still….have not responded……..

BTW Mr. Livingston is surely capable of responding for himself……and he is quite capable of comprehending what he reads……..

Why this ended up on the bottom ……?

Communist China? That’s your rebuttal, Deer? Yes, Hong Kong is now part of China, but that has nothing to do with the fact that they have the most Economic Freedom in the World, and one of the best economies in the world. Whether they call themselves a city or a country contributes no support to your argument, Deer.
You’re clutching for straws, as usual.

I decide who I respond to, Galt. You don’t decide who I respond to.
And my decision is that your inane comments aren’t worth response. If I thought you were a threat to the minds of intelligent people, I might rebut. But you have long ago made yourself irrelevant with your verbose, faux-erudite, tedious, and repetitious comments. I have no fear that you will corrupt the minds of intelligent people.

galt,
You need to calm down, your usual circular jibberish has today morphed into the emotional ramblings of a jilted lover. I can assure you that no one here aside from Flashy thinks about you in that capacity.

Try to embrace brevity in your comments. Make your points passionately.
And then we’ll tear them limb from limb.

Reply to Wim Vonk

“Norway is one example of a very well run country and so are some of the other
Skandinavian countries”, you say.

Why are you saying such nonsense when you obviously do not have any idea
what you are talking about ? In spite of having the North Sea Oil, Norway is in
deep trouble economically. One of the reasons is the immigration policy allowing
tens of thousands of muslims to settle and bring family and live off the welfare
state. Crime is going through the roof and rapes in Oslo has skyrocketed. (Bruce
Bawer’s book “While Europe Slept” is recommended; he lives in Noway and knows
the situation).

Then you say …”some of the other Skandinavian countries”…Since there are only
three in total, Norway, Denmark and Sweden, your sentence does not make sense.
By the way, Sweden is the worst of them as the muslims have taken over parts of whole
cities, like Malmo, where the police do not dare enter – and the Swedish welfare
state is in deep trouble also.

Again: Why do you wish to pretend knowledge you do not have ? Reading can
cure ignorance. Try it.

Galt,
“You drew first blood long ago, and have been doing copious amounts of that since. ”

QUITE TRUE DAVID…..you are bleeding badly, but you were warned that I was “not your enemy”……..that I was here for “solutions”….you chose to continue….which means you did not understand what I meant……..so let me see if I can make it clear……

I am the ‘enemy” of “willfull ignorance” in all its forms……you have insisted on being precisely that……..

“My personal attacks against you are dwarfed by those you have launched.”

Exposing your ignorance or stupidity is not a personal attack. Demonstrating that you are incapable of a logically reasoned intelligent argument is not a personal attack.

On the other hand. calling someone a progressive is NOT an argument. This was explained to you in the very beginning, but this is all you can do……..and all you do, do.

” The regular readers know that. Even the Liberal readers probably know that, but they wouldn’t admit it because they share your agenda.”

HHHHHHHMMMMM…Interesting division…..a few of the regular readers have made the attempt and suffered the same result, the rest have been “silent” and may even understand what I am pointing to…

As for the rest, since I have no agenda, except that which I have indicated……..it is irrelevant to me……but doing what I did to YOU is easily learned……and “solutions” require MINDS that are capable of reason and applied knowledge and evolving with complexities.
So far you have not demonstrated that you are one of those and seem determined not to be……..

“If you bring a gun to a knife fight, Galt, don’t expect me to come defenseless.”

Couldn’t even get that right could you?

I have brought, intelligence, logic, reason and knowledge…..against THAT you have always been defenseless……..

No David, you don’t rebut because you can’t rebut….you have tried, you have failed.

That you have not responded is not evidence for a rebuttal……….

Didn’t that teach you that in agnostic class?

You don’t have to wait Michael J. start tearing…it’s already there.

“Communist China? That’s your rebuttal, Deer? Yes, Hong Kong is now part of China, but that has nothing to do with the fact that they have the most Economic Freedom in the World, and one of the best economies in the world.”

Well, Hong Kong is only a city, not to be confuses with a Nation and it not exactly in the Free World is it? Hong Kong rule might vary but it’s always been a part of main land China, making your comparative “point” null and void substance.

You could just as easily used Berlin and end up in the same place…. No where.

Thank You Mr. Livingston for your clarification……and I especially like the way you inserted your post………..

It does seem to me, and this is PROBABLY JUST ME, that you could have said all that the first time……..it wasn’t much longer…..and it would have avoided any speculation…….

which caused the “non sequitor”……although I really think it is CCOOOOOOOL that you used it……also the way you set it up……..I am clearly not that devious……

Just curious if: You have read the Lords of Finance? and if you have, do you have a factual objections to the history? (safe answer here is no to the reading part )

Noticing that you have read Buckminster Fuller, did you manage to read Critical Path?

E.O. Wilson also has a new book due to hit the stands, are you familiar with him?

Dear GALT,

You write: “Just curious if: You have read the Lords of Finance? and if you have, do you have a factual objections to the history? (safe answer here is no to the reading part )

Noticing that you have read Buckminster Fuller, did you manage to read Critical Path?

E.O. Wilson also has a new book due to hit the stands, are you familiar with him?”

I have not read Lords of Finance. I have read Critical Path. I am not familiar with E.O. Wilson.

Best wishes,
Bob

To Galt…. from Thomas Gunn:

Though your post was directed to Mr. Livingston, please allow me to interject with my own answer. I have a great many “objections to the history”, regarding “Lords of Finance”.

First of all, it’s not history…..it is conjecture; on the part of the author.

The author, Liaquat Ahamad; asserts that the Great Depression was actually the RESULT, of the actions of a few powerful gloabal bankers, who “were united by a common fear ……. that the greatest threat to capitalism was inflation….. and by a common vision that the solution was to turn back the clock and return the world to the gold standard. ”

Only the first part of this is true; that the Great Depression was indeed the result of the actions of a few powerful Global bankers……but their goal then, as now, was not to AVERT inflation….but to engineer it into the fabric of socio-economic activity; in order that THEY could manipulate the global economy, and subjuagate the middle class to a life of debt-slavery, THROUGH inflation…..inflation that they CREATE.

What Mr. Ahamad atttempts to do; is to continue to perpetuate the MYTH, that inflation is some naturally occurring phenomenon that results from economic activity that take places under a free-market CAPITALIST system. This is preposterous. The ONLY thing that determines the REAL price (qua – value) of goods and services in a true “free market”, is Supply and Demand. Inflation, is the consequence of the artificial expansion of the money supply, and this DISTORTS supply and demand. It is through a FIAT currency system, and thorugh the process of “fractional reserve lending” practices, which are only possible under a system that has abandoned the “gold standard”; which allows central banks to CREATE inflation……not to control it. This is the same lie, with which the Federal Reserve has justified its continued existence.

Mr. Ahamad, attempts to portray the bankers of that time (and of today), as having “good intentions”. They do NOT have good intentions. They have ONE intention. That is to confiscate all REAL property and means of production and to centralize their control of it. THAT is the ANTITHESIS of Free Market Capitalism. It is the very definition of Socialism, as outlined in Karl Marx’s communist Manifesto. Those Global Bankers had not intention of “saving capitalism”; for they themselves were NOT CAPITALISTS. They were MONOPOLISTS…..quite another thing. By today’s modern model of our corrupt monetary system, they are best characterized as “Corporate Socialists”. Again, their goals are the antithesis of Free Market dynamics. In a FREE MARKET CAPITALIST system, the means of production (Property, Labor, and Resources), are “freely” held in ownership, by individuals……qua DISTRIBUTED ownership of the means of production. In a SOCIALIST system, the means of production (Property, Labor, and Resources), are CENTRALLY CONTROLLED (in the case of the Soviet Union…by the State, and in the case of the United States….by a Corporate Banking Cartel).

If you want to understand TRUE free marekt economics, please read: “Human Action”, by Ludwig Von Mises. If you further want to understand the TRUE historical reasons behind, and the TRUE INTENTIONS of these central bankers in having created and engineered the Great Depression; then you should read: “The Creature from Jekyll Island”, by G. Edward Griffin. Mr. Griffin is a true historian; unlike Mr. Ahamad who has his own agenda. Mr. Ahamad, in his book, has perverted the truth, and logic, for his own ends.

Why? Because he is a central figure in the Global Banking Aristocracy.

Ahamed is a former director at the World Bank in Washington D.C., where he headed the bank’s investment division. He was Chief Investment Officer of the global bank BNP Paribas, and from 2001-2004 served as its Chief Executive. From October 2007 he has been a director of Aspen Insurance Holdings and in addition advises several hedge funds, including the Rock Creek Group and the Rohatyn Group. He is a member of Board of Trustees at the Brookings Institution and is involved with the New America Foundation. He has been part of the Council on Foreign Relations, and Tri-Lateral Commission. He was born in Kenya, to an aristocratic family; was educated at Rugby School in England, at Trinity College, Cambridge, and at Harvard University.

He is NOT an objective historian, but is an integral part of the New World Order, Global Banking aristocracy that is intent on eradicating property rights for individuals on a global scale. His book, the Lords of Finance, is a work of Fiction, as regards his manufactured conclusions (which he falsely portrays in the book as “facts”).

Bob Livingston says:
June 7, 2012 at 1:37 pm

Dear GALT,
You write: “but I included that in my apology while Mr. Livingston did not include it in his.” I don’t recall issuing an apology.
Best wishes,
Bob

And I didn’t say you did……..My response was to deerinwater.

he speculated that the reason for your “comment” was being off topic. My response to him was that I had included that possibility in my apology warning……”being off topic” or if you would LIKE it in other words…….having to HUNT DOWN DAVID H……forcing me to be OFF TOPIC!!!!!!!!

you will also note that the line continues with………..well, I’m not really sure what it is…………

However, this is your first post.

Bob Livingston says:
June 7, 2012 at 8:32 am
Dear GALT,
You write: “The following post is one of a series, that will continue until a resolution occurs, my apologies to other poster’s on this site, and to
Mr. Livingston, our host.” No. It will not. This ends it.
Best wishes,
Bob

and your second….

You write: “Mr. Livingston, well that would appear to be quite authoritatively expressed…….but I am not sure what you are ending, or for what reason……..?” I am ending your posting of exceptionally long posts that irrelevant to the article at hand before it becomes habit. This is the second one of these I’ve seen in recent days. The person you are debating is not relevant to my decision.
You write: “It does seem familiar though,hhhhmmmm oh yeah, Stalin: “No man, no problem”. Non sequitur.
Best wishes,
Bob

There is a five hour delay…..the speculation of what will prompt your decision……is not a non sequitor at the time it was written…

after all

“No. It will not. This ends it.”

It not an explanation of why……it is a posturing or a claim or POWER…without explanation……..and it doesn’t make the possible speculation of why……which occurs at

GALT says:
June 7, 2012 at 9:14 am

a non sequitor to an explanation that occurs at
Bob Livingston says:

June 7, 2012 at 1:36 pm

at 9:14 am it was still in play as a possibility.

Might be a good example for your “followers” if you acknowledged this as being accurate…….and that you were “incorrect”.

None of them really seem to get what is a “logical fallacy” or a “personal attack” is, yet?

And long seems kind of strange too, can’t you solve this directly by limiting post size…..?

Sincerely, ( without wax )

Galt

GALT, it’s really quite a shame that you aren’t nearly as intelligent as you think you are. You try to impress others and all you do is alienate them. If you were really interested in imparting your knowledge to others you would know that acting like an a$$hole wont get you far. Therefore, being an a$$hole must be the point of your existence on this board.

If your so much smarter than everyone else , just what the hell are you doing on here????

Well Nancy, I am perfectly willing to consider any evidence in support of your conclusion.
Unfortunately, you have neglected to include any evidence……probably just an oversight?

Take all the time you need.

Sincerely, ( without wax )

Galt

Sheryn……whether I am smarter or not is irrelevant, my purpose is and remains the
exchange of idea’s and information, primarily for what I believed was a common goal,
the restoration of the constitution to the primacy of authority it once had, under common law and equity, where government was limited and citizens had rights.

I began this by posting the question, Where are the ( common ) law and equity courts, as
denoted in Article Three……

The answer to this question and understanding it, is the key to the restoration we seem to share as a goal……..it does not require you to DIE or kill anyone…..if is not even particularly risky…….but it allows you to act…..and free yourself……and if you choose,
teach others how to do the same……

All the rest has simply been distraction……branch arguments……etc.

Besides, you have to admit it is good exercise, to stay on point, amidst all this distraction,
and actually getting the constitution back is only the beginning ……..as there are too many divergent interpretations of what it means…….

So all the debate stuff is kind of prep work…….understanding arguments, construction, fallacies, etc…………….

If your question was implying something other than was mentioned here, I shall be happy to answer it.

Sincerely, Galt

“Michael J. says:
June 7, 2012 at 12:16 pm
galt,
You need to calm down, your usual circular jibberish has today morphed into the emotional ramblings of a jilted lover”

Sir;

Galt is now and has been calm, ~ and has not employed circular reasoning but addressed it. He is asking us to employ critical thinking, not be a ditto head, to not be so easily lead around by the nose.

Neither Ron Paul or DaveH or Mr. Livingston have all the answers but often repeat old ideas, some good and some~ not so much. Some sound good while the devil lies in the details, many have been tried with mixed results.

The original intend and ideas of the founding fathers have been tied and subjected to the stark realities of time, inside of 40 years these ideas started under going “change” for good reasons. They failed to work as they were intended.

This notion that a bunch of able statesmen got together in 1776 and hammered out a perfection document to form, regulate and restrict the powers of government is pure horse hockey. This imperfection and the search for perfection is why some of us refer to the Constitution as a “living document” as It grows and changes, it prunes and shapes government and the society it serves.

Is this bad or good? ~ It’s real…. and a little of both. But if anyone thinks civil revolt offers us solutions to today’s problems, they overrated our problems or underrated the significance of civil revolt and the effects it would have not only here at home but abroad.

Rather then searching for good answers, we might well be best served in developing good questions.

The U.S. Constitution clearly is not perfect, as is evident from the endlessly expanding range of government mischief allowed under interpretation of the unfortunate commerce clause, but its imperfection has nothiing to do with the passage of time and the growing complexity of the world. The truth is that America’s political class has never since approached the philosophical and intellectual brilliance of the nation’s founding fathers. My great fear is that a majority of Americans today would be happy to trade liberty for the empty security promised by today’s incompetent and corrupt version of King George.

To Deerinwater:

I respectfully ask you to reconsider a fundamental conclusion that you have been indoctrinated with.

First of all, the power to “amend” or “add-to”, the Constitution, does not implicitly empower our government to fundamentally change its original MEANING.

The Constitution (and its Bill of Rights) is NOT, nor was ever intended to be, a “Living Document”. Please allow me to explain:

If you are playing poker with two other opponents, would you allow them to simply change the rules, in mid-play; for their own convenience, just becuase there are two of them, and only one of you?

The fundamental concept of Unalienable RIGHTS, is that we are endowed with these by NATURE, by GOD (or whatever GOD means to the individual). These NEVER change. The reasons that these NEVER change; and that the Constiution is NOT a “living document”, are many, but most imporatantly is because it is entirely based upon a fundamental morality of humanity.

If you espouse that the Constitution’s fundamental premises should “live”, or change, then you espouse that fundamental morality…..qua…right and wrong……should change. That is a dangerous path to follow.

The morality of which I speak; is that No individual, group, or institution, even if it is in “the majority”, shall have the right to use FORCE (either physical or coercion) against any other individual, or minority group AGAINST THEIR WILL, in VIOLATION OF THEIR CONSTITUTIONALLY GUARANTEED UNALIENABLE RIGHTS.

To claim that the US Constitution is a “Living Document”, is to then say, that these fundamental principals can be changed at will by a majority; which is also to say, that a government of a majority, can therefore remove or change an individual’s constitutional rights. This is NOT espoused in the Constitution.

If that were the case, those rights would not be UNALIENABLE.

It is that Single Pesky little word…. UNALIENABLE…….that PRECLUDES the US Constitution from being a “Living Document”, and this is exactly as the founders intended.

The reasons are many, among them; are the fact that this country was NOT founded as a “Democracy” but as a CONSTITUTIONAL REPBLIC, and for that exact reason.

Because a form of government, that has the authority to Grant individual Rights, then also has the authority to take them away. The founders CLEARLY DID NOT trust any government, that would wield enough power, so as to perpetually repsect the rights of individuals; thus…..the Bill of UNALIENABLE rights was made part of the US Constitution.

In a Pure DEMOCRACY (with your “Living Constitution”), you would have 3 wolves and a sheep, voting on what to have for dinner. A Pure Democracy (with YOUR Living Constitution), is 51% of the public, denying the rignts of the other 49%.

Are you SURE, you want to live under a “Living Constitution”? You may NOT be a minority today…..but some time in the future….you may very well be, as the demographics of this country change in the coming decades. Are you sure you want a “majority” of which you are NOT a part; to have the SOLE AUTHORITY, to deny YOU of your FORMERLY UNALIENABLE rights ? With a “Living Constitution”, that is exactly what will happen to you. If you care about your childrens’ future, if you want your children to some day be able to live “The American Dream”, to truly “own” their own home, to have the opportunity to become self-reliant…..then you should most seriously re-think your assertions about our Constitution being “A Living Document”. I suggest you start by actually reading it, again, and again, and again.

The smallest minority on Earth, is the individual; One who would deny individual rights, cannot then claim to be a defender of minorities. Read this passage again and truly digest its meaning.

And further to that, with a “living constitution”, it is just a matter of time’, not IF……but WHEN, ….. the government functioning under it, will eventually attain enough power to become a Tyranny.

It is vitally important that you understand this objectively. This is NOT about proving a point, or being “right”. This is about being devoted to objective absolute TRUTH. It is not an academic question….someday in this country, perhaps for your children, it will become a matter of life and death.

You have heard many times the statement: “Power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely”. What is more important to understand, is that the access to power, such as powerful institutions, ATTRACTS the CORRUPTIBLE. As such, powerfully structured institutions will always, eventually become fundamentally corrupt…it is just a matter of time. It is for this reason, that our founders constructed our government and our constitution, to have LIMITED, and SEPARATED powers. Those who espouse a “living constitution”; only do so, so that they can subvert this basic principle, in order to consolidate government’s powers, and to make them unlimited.

Do you truly want to trust in an all-powerful fundamentally corrupt government, to restrain itself from violating your rights? If the Constitution forbids them them from doing so……no matter…..they’ll just change it…….that is as long as it is a “living constitution”.

As long as you, and people like you, allow our perverse education system, and propaganda media to continue to indoctrinate the population and perpetuate the myth, that the Constitution is a “living document”, the further and further we will continue on the path to full-on tyranny. Eventually, your children, and your grandchildren will “wake up homeless, and penniless, on the continent their forefathers conquered.”

Once our freedom, and our UNALIENABLE RIGHTS have been lost, do you truly believe that the all-powerful government, will simnply give them back to a bunch of powerless peasants ?

Thanks again for your carefully argued truths. A voice of reason crying in the wilderness. The Founding Fathers would be proud to call you a friend.

Thank You, that is probably one of the nicest things anyone has ever said to me. But I’m humbled by the comment. If’d I’d been fortunate enough to have known any of the founding fathers as a friend, it would have been an unimaginable priviledge.

Here is something interesting for you. This is taken from an article, about the lesser known founders (signers of the Declaration of Independence actually); about the price these men paid, in creating the first, and only truly free nation on Earth. Anyone of real character, who reads this, should gain an entirely new feeling for what the “social engineers” are doing to this once-great country:

And to reiterate from the context of my last post; how could anyone actually think, that the sacrafice these men made to give us the gift of the Declaration of Independence, and the US Constitution, would have considered it to be a “living document” ? That is absolutely preposterous.

.”…..A Politician is a fellow who will lay down YOUR life for HIS country…..

…. and A Statesman is a fellow who will lay down HIS life for YOURS…..”

Which follows from the statement made by the signers of the Declaration of Independence….in the very last line of which was written:

“And for the support of this Declaration with a firm reliance on the protection of divine providence, we mutually pledge to each other our lives, our fortunes, and our sacred honor.”

What practically NO ONE in this country even knows, or cares to think about, is the price these men paid to establish this first, only, and LAST free nation on this Earth:

Of those 56 who signed the Declaration of Independence, nine died of wounds, suffered in battle during the war.

Five others were captured and imprisoned, in each case they were brutally tortured to death and had family members that were hunted down and murdered. Several lost wives, sons or entire families.

One lost EVERY SINGLE ONE OF his 13 children.

Two wives were brutalized, raped, and tortured.
All were at one time or another the victims of manhunts and were driven from their homes.

Twelve signers had their homes completely looted and torched by the British or by “Loyalists”.

Seventeen lost everything they owned and died alone in poverty.

Yet not one man defected or went back on his pledged word.

Their honor, and the nation they sacrificed so much to create is still intact…..but JUST BARELY

And, finally, there is the New Jersey Signer, Abraham Clark:

He gave two sons to the officer corps in the Revolutionary Army. They were captured and sent to that infamous British prison ship afloat in New York Harbor known as the hell ship “Jersey,” where 11,000 American captives were to die of disease, starvation, or torture. The younger Clarks were treated with a special brutality because of their father having been a signatory to the Declaration.

One was put in solitary and given no food and was left to lie in his own excrement until he starved to death. With the end almost in sight with the war almost won, no one could have blamed Abraham Clark for acceding to the British request when they offered him his sons’ lives if he would recant and come out for the King and Parliament. The utter despair in this man’s heart, the anguish in his very soul, must reach out to each and one of us down through 235 years with the answer: “No.”

The 56 signers of the Declaration of Independence proved by their every deed that they made no idle boast when they composed the most magnificent statment in American history and wrote:

“And for the support of this Declaration with a firm reliance on the protection of divine providence, we mutually pledge to each other our lives, our fortunes, and our sacred honor.”

I think I read the same article; I do recall the Clark’s’ story. Never before has such a brave and wise group of men come together to achieve such a noble end. Never again will their likes be seen at the heart of government. It should be said the Founders did everything they could to PREVENT the Constitution from becoming a malleable, “living” document subject to the whims of some unenlightened majority. They anticipated so clearly the long-term threats to their hard-won liberties that confront us at every turn today.

Very very well Said ….. you are a kindred spirit.

Good posts Dave H and Bob Livingston. You all should just ignore Galt as he brings nothing but the usual 5th column lies, rhetoric, innuendo, and hate. Some sheeple are just angry that their messiah Obaaaaamaaaaa bin Laaaaaden will lose and they lay their misplaced anger onto others. Just remember this when it comes to the 5th columners on this site:

“There are three points of doctrine which forms the foundation of all morality. The existence of God, the immorality of the human soul, and a future state of rewards and punishments. Suppose it possible for a man to disbelieve either of these three articles of faith, that man will have no conscience.”

John Quincy Adams

Since 5th columners have no conscience, it is better to ignore them and let them destroy themselves and not take anyone with them.

Bob Livingston, what do you think are the chances of bama bin Laden being re-elected? FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

P.S. You need both love of country and fear of God to be a patriot.

I don’t agree that fear of God is an essential element of patriotism, and I definitely don’t agree that “immorality” of the human soul is one of the indispensable pillars of morality.

GALT, the evidence for my conclusion is in your response.

Galt, you are nothing short of pathetic! DaveH, has repeatedly kicked your behind in debate, and your fragile, pubescent ego, has been traumatized to the point where you scarcely even care wether you make a fool of yourself, with you continual attacks, after the fact! Just admit it; YOU LOST IN DEBATE WITH DAVEH, and get on with your life!!!

First Galt says — “For Deerinwater……..well that would be an interesting escape valve for Mr. Livingston, but I included that in my apology while Mr. Livingston did not include it in his………..”.
Then Bob Livingston says — ” I don’t recall issuing an apology”.
Then Galt says — “And I didn’t say you did……..My response was to deerinwater”.
What? Is it a severe grammar problem? Galt clearly indicated that Mr. Livingston issued an apology.
At best, Galt, you’re equivocating. At worst (and what I suspect) is that you’re outright lying.

If I was a Progressive, Galt, I’d be begging Bob to take you off the board, because you’re making Progressives look really bad. But I’m not, so please keep posting.

Yes DavidH, I suspect functional illiteracy will always be a source of problems for you.
Generally the standard of comprehension was three times for the normal mind….

Well then Nancy, you have been certainly provided with a sufficient number of demonstrative examples on how to use such evidence in support of your conclusion, so there is no reason for you to keep this to yourself.

For Deerinwater……..well that would be an interesting escape valve for Mr. Livingston, but I included that in my apology while Mr. Livingston did not include it in his………..well, I’m not really sure what it is…………

As you can see David the sentence does not stop with “in his”………

You will also note that the post itself is separated and disjointed….which happened a lot when things are composed elsewhere and pasted here……

The dots would indicate a verbal pause…..casting some doubt on Mr. Livingston’s purpose, warning, threat etc. or the reason’s for it……

I realize you are probably very desperate now…….but just think of how many more opportunities you will have to actually develope the skills required to construct a logical argument and what evidence actually IS!

Yes, Jay, that’s what Dave keeps telling me…..unfortunately, the claim seem to be isolated
from any substantive issues….you see Jay, debates revolve around a question or an issue and it’s resolution…….in this respect David has yet to grasp the number of elements involved in any particular “issue”…….which sort of precludes any understanding of what
results from their conjunction…….

This is what happens when people already think they KNOW the answer……..what occurs after this, is NOT DEBATE………because when you already KNOW THE ANSWER, you are stuck with having to make “all the evidence” conform to it……..

If you are actually seeking an “answer”, you gather evidence to see where it leads……and if you are dealing with a dynamic system with varying inputs, the point of resultant equilibrium is constantly shifting to reflect that variance………

What is taking place here, has not been a debate……and it may be, that there is no
possible productive outcome to be expected here……

Que sera, sera.

The race card has been played again. Classic 5th column strategy. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

P.S. You need both love of country and fear of God to be a patriot.

I wonder if the Obamas will spread the wealth around, and send all of us some of that $400 a pound Japanese beef they serve at state dinners.

Obama gets the same payday for the rest of his life as he does now , same as all elected politicians , DOES NOT MATTER RE ELECTED OR NOT . ………………..THERE IS A SIMPLE SOLUTION TO AMERICAN ECONOMY ……………..RON PAUL FOR PRESIDENT .

JUKEBOX, nope they’ll just send you the bill!

The bill will be attached to President Cheney’s $4 trillion tab for gettin’ his boy W’s picture taken on the aircraft carrier in that big-boy flight suit, right?

Bungling the capture of Bin Laden then invading the wrong country:

$4 trillion.

Ignoring your Secretary of State’s advice and starting an ill-conceived, ill-equipped, undermanned military operation without proper vehicle and body armor into a flag-wavin’ full-on shootin’ war:

5,000 of America’s bravest and brightest killed

Gettin’ your picture taken on an aircraft carrier and ensuring you’ll get re-elected in 2004 as the “Decider-In-Chief” and “War President”:

Priceless.

That was a reply to Debbie.

Who wants to follow a Los Vegas odds make anywhere?

That makes me think of these billboard where the cows are writing these witty signs saying “Eat more chick’n”

The general election is going to be a slug fest, The GOP and their supporters, media outlets, operatives, disciples, soldiers have had 3 and a half years to prepare and have been working very hard to relabel their opposition in as many unflattering ways known possible to man. In their mind, they have succeeded.

With 44 coming out in defense and support of same sex marriage and gay in the military ( regardless of my personal conviction) at the most untimely hour presents us a view that he believes he can pull it off !

I’m not so certain anymore, 44 will lose so church votes of all color over that decision along with half the military. It not a decision that I would have made.

The only way I could be a Romney supporter is if he was running against Herman Cain.

I was replying to Debbie but while I’m here. I aprove of Obamas decision to suport Gay marriage . If they want to get married why not?They still deserve equal rights. They are human you know. They are just as good as anybody and I’ve never met one that isn’t a good person and very nice. I think alot of people think the same as I do so I really don’t think it will make a difference.

Deerinwater, were you aware that Obama has said that if Congress does not pass laws making gay marriage and gay rights the law of the land he will do so by executive order.

Actually, it might be interesting to know if anyone knows what an oddsmaker is?

BTW it has nothing to do with predicting the outcome of anything…..I do thing that pic of ole Wayne with his mouth open, says it ALL. Guess he can’t actually write anything…..

Oh yes it does. What do you think the odds are of romney winning. It all doesn’t matter Obama will win anyway. All these morons can just keep arguing all they want its fun to read.

“Actually, it might be interesting to know if anyone knows what an oddsmaker is?”

Hmmm?? Me too! A Fortuneteller that works on commission?

Exactly !

An “odds maker” in Vegas is responsible for setting the line……..and it is especially important in Vegas because it is a “lay off” point for all action that exceeds the line in either direction…….everywhere else…..other points being where ever propositional wagering is legal…..Atlantic City or Reno……etc.

The purpose of the line and the responsibility of the “odds maker” is to guess as accurately as possible the exact MIDDLE of where possible bets are likely to occur….

A football line on a football game of say Baltimore by 3.5 pts is NOT a prediction of the result of the game………it is the point assumed where the action will be equally distributed between both teams…….

The reason for this is that there is a fee for placing the bet……..cost $11 to collect $10. if you win, you get paid $21. and the loser has lost $11………which means the “bookie” makes a risk free dollar………( MINUS EXPENSES= PROFIT )

If say the action is unequal $3000 on one side $2000 on the other, the extra $1000 is risk
and casino’s are not in the gambling business……..also, Vegas is the last stop…….if you have this imbalance in Texas, you can lay the extra off in vegas…..and vegas can refuse bets if it doesn’t want to assume the risk………although sometimes they will take it, for marketing reasons, customer relations and what not…….HOPEFULLY THAT IS CLEAR?

Just exactly how stupid are you.

“. I think alot of people think the same as I do so I really don’t think it will make a difference.”

Well….I don’t fault your views but I do believe the cons out weigh the pros. I don’t like fixing things that are not broken. That they were broken for other’s was something I was willing to live with today, feeling the need for 4 more years of addressing matters of greater significance to all Americans and not just 2 to 5 % of Americans.

If we lose this general because of it, ~ to me personally~ it wasn’t worth it. The cross to bear in supporting the all inclusive DNC, for best or worse , in sickness or in health , commented to the belief that all are equal unto the eyes of law.

Carlield, I am curious how it is you expect people to come together with you but you hate them.
So all you are doing is posting nonsense.

John, the country is already broke! Collapse is coming and nothing can stop it. Get ready. But don’t forget, the government has passed laws saying that they can take your house, car, gold, money, food and water. So you may not be out of the woods. They’ve also made laws allowing them to lock us up and dictate what work we will have to do (for the good of the country, of course). Sounds like slavery doesnt it? They have the FEMA camps all ready. And the department of homeland security has bought enough ammo to kill every one of us. So if you think that the responsible among us will be out of danger, you are mistaken. We have more to fear from our government than we have at any time in history!

TO WHOM IT MAY CONCERN , Nancy I see your name 1 st …….AMERICA ……..IS NOT BROKE ….AMERICA ……IS NOT BROKE ……DO YOUR OWN MATH . …Look at the sales receipt every time you go to the store for anything . Read the total of sales tax at the end of the day on every receipt you collect . Multiply that by at least a million . …..PER DAY …….Next , understand how much government pays the welfare population per month , ALL OF IT PAID FROM SOCIAL SECURITY . …every recorded wage earner in the nation pays welfare , NO MATTER WHAT PARTY . ALL OF IT PAID FROM SOCIAL SECURITY . ….Mitt Romney is not going to be any different than Obama………RON PAUL FOR PRESIDENT ……..

Sad, isn’t it? The blacks and hispanics will just go with whoever promises them the most. Nothing ever really improves for them but they keep believing the lie. I wish they would wake up and see the truth.

WHICH CHOICE YOU TALK ABOUT IF ANYBODY CAN SAY FOR OUR COUNTRY YOU THINK AND SOME PEOPLE IS OBAMA IS WRONG WHAT ABOUT ANOTHER WHO WAS AND WHO COME AMERICA IS 100% WRONG IF THINK OBAMA IS NOT GOOD TO HELD AMERICA BUT ALL YOU TOTAL WRONG AND YOU AND ANOTHER PEOPLE OF AMERICA WILL FACE MORE CRUSH AND MAKE CRAZY CHOICE WILL BE 100% DOWN EVEN ALL YOU SEE SOME ECONOMY CRUSH PAYCHECK LATE OR NOT TO HAVE TO MONEY TO PAY BILL WILL HEAVY TO PAY WILL MORE PEOPLE POOR JUST THINK AND SEE

Nena, in as simple language as possible to convey to you that you wrote what could pass the smell test for horse manure.
Try being truthful instead of pretend writing as if you were illiterate.

Nena’s diatribe is as understandable as Obama & Axelrod’s alleged explanations of any of their policies.

Sic her guys!!! I’ve said since this contraseptives broke, “Ya don’t f#@k wit da pope!!!” LOL!!! Tell’ em Padre’!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYQ4uw7sY_E&feature=related

LOL!!!

NENA, seriously?!? Go back to school! I’m not trying to be mean but I couldn’t understand anything you said. If you want to be taken seriously, you need to learn to write.

But not Public School which is probably responsible for her current writing skills.

What was that Nena? Are an American or are you from another country? If you are from another country, try toi learn our language before posting. Also, I hope you are here legally. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

P.S. You must have both love of country and fear of God to be a patriot.

How dare this guy call himself a libertarian. I Romney plant more like, and if the rest of you tools don’t get your heads out of your asses and see that Romney is just another Obama you will go down along the same path that brought us here. Romney may become the next president, but not by real votes. You ready for another Bush election? I have no doubt Obama will lose but not to Romney.

Dick got it right. Nena had to be using a computer translator. I have used them many times myself to try to convert another language to English. They just don’t work very well. I use them to try and get a sense of what someone is talking about. Nena’s attempt at English is exactly what I get from a computer translator. But, one thing is clear. Nena is an Obot.

Nena: SAY WHAT???
The letters are all there, but the words don’t make sense. Ask a 6th grader to help you next time.

Hey Nena,

How’s that hooked on phonics course working out for you?

What you talkinbout nena?

It is truly comical how we have a President who could be a character in a Horatio Alger’s novel and you put him down with your idiotic and untrue rants. He is MORE of an American than anyone posting to the contrary. He is a patriotic loyal defender of America. You come up with truly pathological lies about the man, and yet somehow MOST AMERICANS do like and respect him. I think that the sillier the attacks become the more people will become defensive of him. For example, do you really think that the AVERAGE AMERICAN approves of what happened in Montana? You have what is supposedly a mainstream GOP event, yet there is a bullet riddled outhouse labeled the “Obama Library” and inside it says “For a good time, call Michele” do you good Christians (lol) really imagine that insinuating America’s First Lady is a whore, gets you points with ANYONE? You live in an echo chamber and all you hear is your own perverse voices. The fact that spineless Mittens, sent Newt to go speak there and neither one of them had the class or good taste to demand that eye sore be removed, well it speaks to the poor leadership and his willingness to pander to the basest elements on the right— which is clearly well-represented here.

There are abuses on both sides of the political spectrum, Cee, but the differences between the two can perhaps be seen most vividly in the differences in behavior between the Tea Party and the infantile Occupy movement. The idea that the sordid manipulations by which the least qualified, least accomplished candidate in history managed to become President somehow qualifies as a “Horatio Alger” type of story is ludicrous to the extreme. Obama has spent a small fortune hiding his pathetic past so as to reinvent himself and deceive the American people. It is truly an American tragedy that, with almost universal backing by a biased media, he has succeeded so well in undermining a country whose freedom and exceptionalism he truly loathes.

Davee, our enemies want to destroy everything. They want to dismantle all traditions, conventions, faiths and beliefs. Once destroyed to the core, they believe they can construct what they think will be a utopia. They are very dangerous fools.

Rather they want US to believe that they can construct a Utopia. The Leaders are simply feathering their own nests, and they will tell us any tall tales they can muster to accomplish that goal.

The Marxist idea of the law, as officially defined by the Soviet Union in 1938: “Law is a combination of the rules of behavior established or sanctioned by state authority, reflecting the will of the ruling class – rules of behavior whose application is assured by the coercive power of the state for the purpose of protecting, strengthening and developing relationships and procedures suitable and beneficial to the ruling class.”

Our general public has been sold on the fact that WE are the cause of ALL the world’s woes! A perception which must change, teachers and peofessors who teach propaganda instead of fact mush be weeded out and replaced!!!

“Democracies have serious drawbacks. They certainly are not better than they ought to be. But corruption can occur under any kind of government. And I think that every serious student of history will agree, upon consideration, that our Western democracies are not only the most prosperous societies in history – That is important, but not so very important – but the freest, the most tolerant, and the least repressive large societies of which we have historical knowledge… One must fight those who make so many young people unhappy by telling them we live in a terrible world, in a capitalist hell. The truth is we live in a wonderful world, in a beautiful world, and in an astonishingly free and open society. Of course it is fashionable, it is expected, and it is almost demanded from a Western intellectual to say the opposite.” – Karl Popper

Davee EHG –
I’d like to engage in a little Biblical logic here re: Romans 13:1.
It is and has been common teaching, generally held, that this addresses secular authority and how we should align our lives to relate toward secular governments. Such teaching holds that God ordains, sets up and stands behind temporal authorities and God’s people are to comply with their demands, regardless.
If that is true we must stop imagining this is to be, by any stretch, a “Christian nation”. The founders would have been totally off any Biblical basis by dissenting and resisting King George. That is exactly what George thought because of the Anglican Church’s attitude to his throne, their standing, this verse and THEIR extension to him of the concept of “divine right of rulership”. THEY extended this olive branch to him; God maybe didn’t have a thing to do with it if their rendition of this verse was not God’s interpretation and intent.
By the same token, David in the Bible, was way off base in going against King Saul – especially after Saul had been originally anointed by the man of God, Samuel, who inaugurated and instituted Saul’s reign at God’s instruction. However, Saul went off the reservation and was eventually removed after he consulted the sorceress at Endor. There are other records where native and foreign governments were shed by movements of Godly people (in warfare no less)…with God’s assistance when they REturned to him.
Evidently, there is something wrong with the common interpretation and teaching about Romans 13:1. Either that or God supports and assists those who reject his Word so they can lord it over everybody they rule and make them do things God says are unjust, not right(eous)and evil.
Well, the simple answer is readers should be more careful HOW they read, understand and apply what is there to be learned. The book of Romans says in Romans 1:6-7 that this letter is written to “the called of Jesus Christ: (7.) to all that be in Rome, beloved of God, called saints”. What it says, therefore, is written to believers, God’s followers, His church and in this case in regard to those He has delegated to administer, teach and serve as leaders within that body (who maintain themselves in proper service and teaching). If they get out of bounds or in chronic egoism they’re out, gone, removed. Why? God won’t honor their prayers or bless the people he leads.
People, often people totally opposed to God, endorse and establish secular rulers. If they set up people whose laws maintain order and reason in society without inhibitting Godly worship or observances then why not fall in line? What’s most important? God says He’ll meet your needs until this epoch in God’s timetable is finished.
Have a blessed day.

The way I read Rom. 13:1 is that we are to honor those in authority unless in doing so WE AS CHRISTIANS are forced to go against God’s commandments, then we are given the commandment to stand in opposition to such laws or forms of government. I thought Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. set an EXCELLENT example of how to fight like a Christian!!! Always on your knees asking for courage and strength!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QhnPVP23rzo
STILL OUR THEME SONG!!!

GOD didn’t put Obama in office, the ELECTORAL COLLEGE did.

You seem to forget that “free will” thingee that we mortals were given. . .

There is no “DIVINE INTERVENTION” when it comes to electing a President.

Just remember these everyone:

“The Smiles of Heaven can never be expected on a nation that disregards the eternal rules of Order and Right, which Heaven itself Ordained.”

George Washington

I don’t think God is smiling at us now, do you? Maybe after we vote out the current pretender in office.

“When he (Washington) took the oath of office, administered by Chancellor Robert Livingston of New York, Washington spontaneously added the words “So help me God” and kissed the Bible on which his right hand rested.”

Tha American Presidents, David C. Whitney, pg. 12

“I have sworn upon the altar of God eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man.”

Thomas Jefferson

This quotation from Thomas Jefferson, carved on his memorial in Washington, D.C., epitomizes the philosophy to which he dedicated his life, his mind, and his eloquent pen.

“The highest glory of the American Revolution was this; it connected in one indissoluble bond the principles of civil government with the principles of Christianity.”

John Quincy Adams

So we were founded a Christian nation, on Christian beliefs, and we need to ask God to help us in righting the course this country is currently taking. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

P.S. You need both love of country and fear of God to be a patriot.

I agree and I am quite wide awake.What this adminstration has been working hard for is the absorbtion of the US into the world government. First they had to destroy our economy so that the masses were desperate enough to reliquish their sovereignty for lack of food and services. Next, they have to disarm us so we have no power to restore the constitution or control our own fate. This is NOT the begging of the process this is the end run. This started 60 years ago and in some aspects, as far back as 100 years ago.
The Bildeburgers laid out the whole plan for this result back in the 50′s. The question before us is, are the American people going to allow this? Will America end with a whimper? Or with the roar of the free people restoring the Constitution to it’s proper place? I know there are men here who have fought for this country Now people it’s your turn. First educate yourselves as to what the federal governments powers are and are not, this is clearly defined in our constitution. Then make your decision as to can be done to stop this. It’s either that or learn to love abject poverty and servitude with no honor no hope. Once the country falls there is no peacefull way back. It’s up to you. Face the factual truth or just sit back while events rip away your illusions.

USMC,USN (ret)

gOD DID NOT PUT HIM IN OFFICE, ACORN FRAUD PUT HIM IN OFFICE

I agree with GustyJ. GOD DID NOT PUT OBAMA IN Washington . America is part of the g 2 0 WORLD GOVERNMENT . N W O gave AMERICA Obama , the DEmocrats …KNEW , ….They could depend on the greed of the welfare population , add the teachers union to it . GOD is allowing AMERICA to destroy ourselves . ..Remember last election , FRED THOMPSON wanted to bring AMERICA back to GOD . The Republican , party stopped all that , with the Democratic party help …..ALL POLITICS IS THE SAME . …………RON PAUL FOR PRESIDENT .

If your going to blame Obama for so much .you should follow with your stinging of Congress whose many members have been around long before Obama got there. Its incredible how americans are so quick to blame everything imaginable on this guy when we the voters are a hundred time more responsible for the state of affairs in this country..

You might as well vote for Obama & get the impending disaster you desire. The longest journey in the world began with one step, and getting rid of Obama is our first step.

Boone,

I know many here want to vote for Ron Paul, Unfortunately, one vote for Ron Paul is as good as two votes for Obama.

That was how Ross Perot took votes from Bush 1 (whether you like him or not).

Contrar SIR ED, If the Paul supporters chalenge the Republican Convention , which looks very likely, and is allowed to prove the voter fraud and corruption , and overthrows the PRESUMPTIVE ROMNEY NOMINATION , ….RON PAUL WILL GET THE PEOPLES CHOICE NOMINATION , ….INSTEAD OF THE BUSH FAMILY INDOCTRINATION OF MITT ROMNEY . ………….1 st thing Dr. Paul needs to do , day after he signs in …………..GET RID OF THE DELEGATE PROCESS . The delegate process , OVER RULES THE PEOPLES CHOICE VOTE . …….State of Louisiana , peoples vote gave it to RICK SANTORUM . Delegate process gave it to ROMNEY . 1 0 0 0 0 people voted for Santorum . 1 5 state delegates gave it to Romney . This is ssoo wrong . I do not need a state delegate tell me who I am allowed to vote for . THERE IS A SIMPLE SOLUTION TO AMERICAN ECONOMY , ALL OF CONGRESS KNOWS THIS . ………………..RON PAUL FOR PRSIDENT

I’m not a fan for Romney neither…but a vote for anyone other than him is a vote for the Obama. Remember he had 57 million zombies who voted for him the last time.

ron paul is not on the ballat and a vote for him is only a vote for obama wake up and vote for america mitt is not my choice either but i will vote for him over obama because he is less socialist then obama and will protect the constitution better where as obama has no regards to the constitution so wake up and do the right thing don`t waste your vote in anger

I do not follow that , TRW. Ron Paul is the only political salvation for AMERICA , …ALBEIT , All politics is the same . If you saw RAND PAUL’s response to endorsing Mitt Romney , last week . RAND is required to support Romney because of the plege of allegience to the party . …State of Virginia tried to do the same thing at the primary voting station , BEFORE GINGRICH AND PERRY WENT TO COURT TO STOP IT . Virginia required a plege of allegience of ANY VOTE for the Republican party , before the person is allowed to vote . ……………………RON PAUL FOR PRSIDENT .

Boone 1,

Why vote at all if your going to vote for Ron Paul? Your just being selfish & foolish! I really don’t like Romney, either but I will vote for him to get Obama the Hell out! If Romney does Not perform will, we can fire him too after 4 years!!

You sir are correct I too will vote”RON PAUL” If “GAYBAMA” wins there will be “civil war” so i’am not worried if MARXIST ROMNEY LOSES.

I too agree that a vote for RP is a vote (or two) for O! But I swear I don’t see all that much difference between the two frontrunners except for a few shades of skin tone! I have to agree that Wayne has called Romney all along and I pray that his “common sense” handicapping is correct and not merely wishful thinking. I do have to say though, his track record IS pretty darn good! He may dress like a budget used car salesman (LOL!) but the dude knows his sh!t when it comes to handicapping the political ponies!!! Romney is as Wall St. as you get! There isn’t a Main St. bone in his body!!!

In this election cycle we will have 3 choices.

obama
obama spelled with an R
Ron Paul.

A vote for either of the first 2 is a vote for obama. All the illogical claims that a vote for Ron Paul totally miss the key point that obama with an R is still obama. The name is different. The policies are the same. Ron Paul, on the other hand, has a 25+ year history of supporting the Constitution thru word and deed (votes).

So throw away your vote for the greater or lessor evil if you want but stop telling us that our vote for REAL change is a vote for the greater evil.

It is not we who are splitting the vote. It is those who constantly vote for the lessor of 2 evils that split the vote. Just think. If all those people who CLAIM to be holding their nose and voting for obama with an R to get rid of obama would vote for Ron Paul he would win with a landslide AND get rid of obama in the process.

It is because people REFUSE to stand up and do the right thing, that our country is in the situation it is in! If you vote for romney you are playing right into their hands! There is no difference between obummer and romney! They are the same thing! Republicans and democrats are the same thing! The two party system is an illusion to make you think you have a choice! It doesnt matter which party is in power! Nothing changes! It’s the same agenda! If you want things to change, YOU have to change! We had an opportunity to get our country back to the great nation that it once was with Ron Paul but you cowards were too afraid to choose. Now you’re trying to make others feel that the failure of this country will be on their shoulders if they dont vote for romney. Well it will be your fault! The definition of insanity is when you do something over and over and expect different results! Well if you think voting a republican into office will change anything, you are insane! Voting for the lesser of two evil is still evil! I will not vote for evil! I will write in Ron Paul’s name and when you get what you deserve, don’t blame me!

Watch this video to understand!
http://www.alt-market.com/articles/775-the-evolution-of-the-democratic-plantation

I agree completely boone1. Ron Paul is going to be our next president.

Do you have any of that you want to sell Darrell?! It’s GOTTA be da BOMB! LOL!!!

Frank says — “If Romney does Not perform will, we can fire him too after 4 years!!”.
Yeah sure, Frank. I’ve been hearing that same lame kind of assertion for 35 years now and nothing has changed. If we don’t vote for Principled Politicians, we won’t get Principled Politicians.

Well said Dave H. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

P.S. You need both love of country and fear of God to be a patriot.

Recognize, at this point in history, America has a two-party system at the national level whether we like it or not. There is no viable third candidate and 5 months is not enough time to produce one. Say what you want about Romney being moderate or even liberal, at least when he was Governor of Massachusettes he did not violate the State Constitution. It is not irrational to conclude President Romney will not violate the U.S. Constitution. Understand, much of the damage BHO is doing to America he is doing outside of Congress and the Constitution. There is much to do to turn things around in America, but we cannot even take a first step if BHO is reelected. Even if the GOP retains its numbers in the House and gains a slight majority in the Senate, it will not have 60 seats in the Senate. If BHO is President then he can veto every piece of legislation presented by the Congress and there will not be enough votes to override any of the vetos.

At least with Romney we have a chance to repeal obamacare by holding Romney and the GOP to their pledge to repeal it. Another term for BHO means obamacare becomes permanent. Don’t believe me, name a single entitlement program that has ever been terminated once passed. This is our only window of opportunity on this issue as I am not optimistic this SOTUS will strike down even the individual mandate, much less the whole law.

Further, BHO is already ignoring federal court orders regarding oil drilling and implementation of obamacare, what makes anyone believe he will obey the SOTUS even if they strike down the individual mandate, or the entire law for that matter? Do you think the GOP has the stomach to go through impeachment? It takes a two-thirds vote in the Senate to convict even if the House is successful in impeaching the President. Do you really believe any of the democrats will vote to convict?

No, the only option is to vote for Romney and as many conservative candidates for House and Senate as possible, then hold their feet to the fire until obamacare is repealed, the czars are eliminated, the borders are secure, NDAA is repealed, the regulations are rolled back, spending is cut by at least One Trillion Dollars per year, unemployment drops to 5%, marginal tax rates are lowered, capitol gains and death taxes are eliminated, and the economy begins to truly grow once more.

While we are working on that we either reform the GOP from within or we begin building a third party at the local and state level to begin to challenge the other two parties in a serious way leading to a viable third party Presidential candidate.If ROn Paul is serious about improving America, then he should take his retirement from the House and use it to build this third party. If he has all the abilities his supporters claim, then this should be a trivial matter for his genius.

This is for SoCo Gal – Yours wa sthe first level-headed statement I’ve read on this. Samurai I can give you may quotes by the Presidents you cited that show their disdain and mistrust of religion and Washington may not have done what you claim by what I have read and he refused to allow clergy near him on his death bed.

So Co Gal:

Daniel 4: 17 The sentence is by the decree of the watchers, and the demand by the word of the holy ones; to the intent that the living may know that the Most High ruleth in the kingdom of men, and giveth it to whomsoever he will, and setteth up over it the lowest of men.

http://naturalnews.com/036100_death_panels_elderly_TIME_Magazine.html

That’s crazy. However, I sure don’t want to be kept alive on a feeding tube or respirator or in constant pain.

I’m sure no one else would want ya to either Karlolyn, LOL!!!

That’s great, Karolyn, but let’s not make that decision for other people.

We already HAVE death panels.

They’re called Insurance Companies.

Haven’t you ever heard of Wendell Potter? He was a PR Vice President for CIGNA and he exposed the whole racket.
Corporate America decides who lives and dies in America CONSTANTLY.

They’re just clever enough to hide their role in the process.

I am old, don’t feel like the Gov. should be able to require me to attend a Death Panel. We are still free, at least today we are. Need to get rid of Obamacare,

are you and nena related?????

IDecided,
I doubt if you can’t walk and talk at the same time because you are so [expletive deleted] stupid and assadine!

OMG! What is your mental malfunction soldier? This sounds like what you and your ilk would want to do. Obama bin Laden may do the same if re-elected.

http://www.video.foxnews.com/v/1275174567001/atheists-go-after-in-god-we-trust

I suggest that you wake up and see what is going on around you. Neeeeed to be making that popping sound. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

P.S. You need both love of country and fear of God to be a patriot.

(Personal attack deleted)

Something familiar about the posts you and Nena have put on this board. Oh wait, its cannon fodder.

Close, but no cigar (IMO). Obama won using a very simple 1-2 strategy: 1. Every other candidate is similar to Bush; I am not similar to Bush; vote for me and 2. (inferred) Vote for me because of the color of my skin.

The voters primarily voted for Obama because of their dissatisfaction with Bush and the war he is thought to have dragged the US into. In that environment, Mickey Mouse could have run and won using the same strategy (1. I am not Bush, 2. Vote for me because I am a mouse – a mouse has never been elected as POTUS)

I share your fear…

Hello again MR. Livingston, I am inserting my post here, because it precedes Mr. Thomas Gunn’s post just below…………

I’m just pointing this out because it’s seems kinda long……..or course there is long and then there is long……..

Sincerely, ( without wax )

Galt

I’m afraid OB will find a way to win fraud being one way and this Marshal law scare.And he’s still a little to cockey for me.Like he has something up his sleeve.

Thank you for a truly brilliant essay!! It’s worth more than the summation of all the other posts to this thread.

WOW! most Ron Paul fans just say RON PAUL 2012! but I must say you took it to a whole new level. Very Impressive, but I still won’t vote vote for Paul.

I’m not a “fan” of any politician. I’m an American Citizen, and as such, am obligated to support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies foreign and domestic. Ron Paul is the only Statesman who espouses these same values. THAT is why I support him to be president….NOT because I’m a “Fan” as you put it.

Rock stars have fans. Idiots in Hollywood have “Fans”, who follow them out of media-induced popularity. The media has done everything possible to make Ron Paul Un-popular; and those who support him do so out of PRINCIPLE…..NOT POPULARITY. We (Ron Paul supporters) are Not “Fans”…… We Are AMERICANS, who think and act for ourselves, instead of letting the corrupt popular media do our thinking for us. Please don’t insult my intellegence again.

DO WHAT EVER YOU NEED TO DO . …RON PAUL , is the only one who WILL DO WHAT IS NEEDED . ….ALL THE REST IS BUSINESS AS USUAL ………….RON PAUL FOR PRESIDENT .

Good read, I don’t know where you got it or if it’s a summation of your own thoughts but it rings clear.

There is not very many Type “C” personalities about in compassion to A’s , B’s and S’s.

http://1stconsultantsinc.leap-link.com/images436/TCB9e-articles-8.pdf

Great Post Thomas Gunn

Here’s some food for thought for the nay-sayers, the “anyone but Obama crowd” – we still have a CHOICE.

Mitt IS NOT THE PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE.
Mitt IS NOT THE PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE.
Mitt IS NOT THE PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE.
Mitt IS NOT THE PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE.

Eisenhower warned us of the INDUSTRIALIZED MILITARY COMPLEX. Right now the U.S. is the epitome of it. We have been in more wars since the Korean war than any other time in U.S. history.

BOOMERS were BORN into wartime, so that means that THEIR CHILDREN AND GRANDCHILDREN have ONLY known war-time and very little peace in their lives. Remember when they used to put up U.S. BODY COUNTS during the Vietnam war?

We are so de-sensitized to it, we don’t even want to know the numbers of our military being killed DAILY in Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya and Syria and now BOTH MItt and OBUMMER want to go to war with IRAN. (expletive deleted) – how many wars can one country be in at one time????

WAR IS PROFITABLE. WAR IS GOOD. WAR HELPS WITH POPULATION CONTROL.

WAR KEEPS THE POWERS THAT BE IN POWER

Am I getting it right that the people who current support Mitt are saying that if Dr. Ron Paul TAKES the REPUBLICAN NOMINATION that they will NOT vote for him?

ANYONE but Obama but NOT Dr. Ron Paul???

I SWEAR the world has gone insane

Broke my heart to read RAND PAUL has jumped ship from Daddy RON , and endorsed Romney . ..THE RON PAUL SUPPORTERS MUST SCREAM LOUDER THAN THE REST DURING THE CONVENTION . I pray to god , GOD WILL PERFORM HIS MIRACLE and RON PAUL WINS . ……………… RON PAUL FOR PRESIDENT .

Nice post, Thomas Gunn.
I completely agree with the sentiment; America, wake up, and vote RON PAUL!

Great post. I was already going to vote for Dr Paul and have educated many of my friends on who he is and what he stands for. Unfortunately, you will have yr sheeple zombie useful idiots like David that enjoy being enslaved and cheering for frauds.

We can, FINALLY, put the Ron Paul candidacy to bed! Rand Paul just endorsed Mitt Romney! Now let’s move foward to a Republican victory in November!

Though there is a lot of good thought in your treatise, you fail to offer a solution. Since Ron Paul by his own act of endorsing Mitt Romney has demonstrated he will not be President, there remains one non-lethal option to try to restore some sanity to governance and that option is to vote for Mitt Romney. I do not know if we will be able to make things better or not with Romney as President, but unless you are advocating an actual revolution, which you did not seem to be doing, then your suggestion of voting for Ron Paul is not rational as it does even less to try to turn things around than voting for Romney since it ensures BHO will win. You cannot actually believe with Paul endorsing Romney that somehow Paul will be the nominee as that would mean you are beyond irrational and have become insane. Please rethink this notion that a vote for Paul is anything but a vote for BHO.

Naturally, my comment was posted before any endorsement of Romney by the Paul camp was made public. Of course, I had remained hopeful to the bitter end that Dr. Paul could manage an upset win of the nomination; but that is clearly impossible now (thanks in large part to the propaganda media’s penchant for perverting the news).

However, I stand by my commentary; that Romney will most likely (this is a statement of probability….OK?)… offer nothing but more of the status quo; at least that’s my expectation. He has PROMISED, to make his first act if elected, to work toward a repeal of “Obamacare”. I DO NOT believe him. He, like Obama, will say anything in order to attain a position of power; for that is his primary goal.

But, hopefully, he will surprise us, and for once in his career, keep his word…….I doubt it, but time will tell.

Ron Paul on the other hand, has ALWAYS kept his word. He has NEVER flip-flopped. He is the only honest man in government, the only true statesman to have come along in more than 50 years, and the only man of integrity that entered this presidential primary. Of ALL of the candidates who ran in the Republican Primary, as well as Obama….Dr. Paul is the ONLY veteran of the US military. He and he alone, is the most qualified to serve as commander in chief. These are facts…………and not only my opinion. This country has missed an unprecedented opportunity, to put the BEST man for the job, actually IN the job.

The spineless cowards (qua — “Sheeple”) in this country that supported Romney during the primaries for this nomination, will 2 years from now; WISH they had supported Paul instead. Of this I’m certain. You may disagree, and I respect that, so if you are devoted to TRUTH, more-so than wanting to be “right”…….as I am….then do yourself a favor…..keep an open mind, and print out this response and stick it on your refrigerator. Then, 2 or 3 years after the presidential election….IF Romney wins the White House…..read this again, and decide whether or not Mr. Romney indeed kept his word. I suspect, he will not. Hopefully, I”m wrong.

Furthermore, in response to your rather offensive assessment of my “sanity”, it should be plainly obvious to any reader with a rudimentary command of the English language, that my series of posts in which I discuss “voting for Ron Paul”, were all CLEARLY in the context of the primary (not the general election); as I believe (and will continue to do so); that he was our best and last hope, to re-capture constitutional authority for the citizenry of this once-great nation.

Clearly, anyone who is a true constitutional conservative would NEVER support another Obama presidency. I certainly didn’t support this past one. But as I’ve said before, a Romney presidency, as the “lesser of two evils”….will still be evil.

Unfortunately, the Marxist powers that control our media and our current government; saw to it that Dr. Paul and his message of liberty would be marginalized, and trivialized for a long enough period of time during this primary season; so as to ensure that Romney would be shoved down the throats of the true conservatives in this country; as the de-facto Republican nominee. It is pretty clear then, that Romney is as much of a media-whore this time around; as Obama was in 2007-2008. That is all the evidence I need to conclude that he is “owned” by the same people as Obama. That should be plainly obvious to anyone who is paying attention. It will be interesting to see what favors he pays back, to those who shoved him down our throats throughout every primary debate and state caucus. Only then will it be revealed to whom he is now beholden…..and it will NOT be to: We the People.

The propaganda ministry has clearly been successful in their endeavor; so it is abundantly clear that we again; are FORCED, to concede yet another election; to the ILLUSION of having a choice; while in fact; we yet again have NO Choice. I firmly believe that Romney, and Obama work for the same cartel; and I can firmly re-state my prediction; that nothing substantive will change for the people in this country; in terms of restoring constitutionally protected individual sovereignty, regardless of which of them winds up residing in the White House. If Romney PROVES me Wrong, I will be the first one in line to support his re-election for a second term; but I have no reason to believe that he will suddenly morph into a man of the same caliber of integrity and character as that of Ron Paul.

Be that as it may, Romney will be the nominee that we are stuck with. As such, time will tell whether or not I’m right. As one who is devoted to TRUTH, I don’t really care about being “right” and for the sake of this country, for the sake of my family, and of my son and his future……I hope that I am wrong, and that Mr. Romney will surprise us; but I’m not going to hold my breath.

Ron Paul was a “sure thing”; for everyone can be certain that what he put forth as his intentions as president…….. to restore the constitution, to restore personal liberty, to restore REAL PROPERTY RIGHTS for individuals……that he would most certainly have followed through. I for one prefer to bet on a “sure thing”, rather than a charlatan in a $5000 suit. Ron Paul is the ONLY man in government that has demonstrated the integrity time and time again to keep his word. That is something that cannot be said for anyone else, including Romney.

Lordy Mr. Gunn,

I’m glad someone liked your endless article. You must have an ego and a half! Isn’t Obama enough? Go and vote Obama in already and leave us in peace. I believe we finally have a real chance of throwing him out, and though there are liberal Republicans, they aren’t anywhere near the mindset of the left. A great many Americans have finally opened their eyes, through trial and tribulations. No Republican will gut the military. No Republican will be so ignorant and so full of hate as the Democrats. Remember George Bush had to deal with a Democrat majority in his second term, and though he tried to get oversight into Fanny Mae and Freddie Mack, the Democrats stopped him. All the things Democrats accuse Republicans of, is transference, in other words, just the opposite. It is they themselves who want bigger, more intrusive, richer government. And while he got blamed for Katrina (and the lies worked, as they usually do), he in fact warned Louisiana days ahead to be prepared. It was the governor and mayor that didn’t give a damn. ( Just look it up, under Katrina, I did). All of you who think voting for Ron Paul on principal, are either delusional, or liberal Democrats in disguise (not much of one either). As I said in the beginning, just tell it like it is, you want Obama in, and all he and they stand for. We at least have a chance of change with Mr. Romney, because a lot of conservative people were voted in, in 2010. Hopefully, they will get rid of Obamacare, (the bill that had to be passed, without our knowing what was in it), start securing our borders, instead of suing a state for trying to. Get rid of the corrupt head of the DOJ, Eric Holder, Pelosi, Jarrett, Reid (or at least dilute him). Pass a fair tax code, and get rid of the unbelievable regulations this administration has passed and continues to turn out every day, to kill businesses across the nation. If you believe the lies being told about the economy getting better, come to Connecticut, and see the closed store fronts, the car dealers who went under, the For Sale signs of homes, that no one can afford anymore and are fleeing the state. The rusted cars, we haven’t seen in decades. Everyday, we hear more businesses and chain stores closing. If Obama and his minions succeed with gutting another 500 million dollars from the military, 35,000 jobs will be lost in Ct. And the businesses that depend on those people. Without a strong military, we are sitting ducks for all the radical countries, just waiting to attack us. Think people, it’s just common sense. Also, according to our own Constitution, the primary responsibility of the government, is to protect the country and its citizens. The rest of what government is doing is against what it was supposed to be doing. Read the Constitution, The Bill of Rights, etc. Be literate about what the Founders wanted for the Republic.

Mr. Gunn, you lost me after 1 st sentence . Your next statement made more sense . EVEN SO , maybe a reason you may feel insulted , EVERY ONE ELSE , IS SUPPORTING THE STATUS QUO , BUSINESS ASUSUAL . …I feel like , if romney is it , NOTHING CHANGES , EXCEPT THE NAME ON THE DOOR . ……………..RON PAUL FOR PRSIDENT .

Thomas Gunn- Thank you for the time and thought you put into this cohesive and poignant post. What you expressed has been on mind mind for a long time now. Hopefully those who don’t get it – will get it now. Truth always prevails even if it takes time. Though I am not sure just how much time we have left to make inroads to a positive change, I do know that integrity is one of the most important facets of character needed to affect the compassionate change this country so urgently needs.

Thomas Gunn you are so right. Recently read “High Treason” by Groden & Livingstone and parts of a book by Colonel Fletcher Prouty called “Secret Team”; a group of “players” who can orchestrate the activities of the US Government. Industry, big business, the military complex, big banks and big lawyers. (This is in today’s news all the time). Colonel Prouty states that this has been going on since 1959 or 60 but certainly since the “murder” of JFK. In my opinion the CIA, who was very much involved with the killing of JFK started this trend, which is evident today, but now all branches of our Government are corrupt and useless to the American people. Rep’s and Dem’s are one and the same with one common goal. That One World Government is closer than we think. My age today will limit the heartbreak and loss of my America, but I fear for future generations. I always new that I would wright in Ron Paul for President because I still have the right to vote as I please.

Thank You Patricia. I too and quite distressed over what is unfoliding in America. I actually coined the term “false flag capitalism” in a book I wrote ten years ago; when I then theorized that “American capitalism” as we have known it in our lifetimes, is a fraudulent deception; and is nothing resembling “true – qua – Constitutional Capitalism.

However, the longer we can delay the “final conversion” (from corporate to marxist socialism); in America, the more likely we can reverse the course back to constitutional freedom; without having to endure a complete collapse leading to violent revolution (which would be in no-one’s best interest).

In that regard, I am honestly “on the fence” about the idea of “writing in” Ron Paul, for president. On one hand, that is indeed the “right thing to do”. However, at some level; I tend to believe what Josef Stalin said more than 70 years ago; “It matters not who votes…..what matters is….. who counts the votes”.

I have such a low opinion of where this system is today; that I have no confidence in there being any level of integrity or honesty in our elections system. That is blatantly clear; from the media-blackout and the “propaganda by omission” against Dr. Paul; that has been perpetrated by the MSM not just since the beginning of this term’s republican primary, but as well during the previous election. It was during the 2007-2008 campaign; that I realized fully; that Fox (FAUX) News, was as fundamentally corrupt in their reporting, as any of the other degenerate “TV-opinion rags”. I remember vividly, Sean Hannity’s ridiculous and offensive rant, about Ron Paul which was completely flawed in its logic. It is ironic, and beyond disappointing to think, that nowadays we can obtain more objective and honest reporting, from RT (Russian TV) news channel, than we can from CNN, FOX, MSNBC, or any of the other rags we have in this country.

But I digress. My point, is that I have no level of confidence that even if 100% of the American voters “wrote in” Ron Paul as the best man to occupy the White House (which he in fact is); that he would still be precluded from winning the election. Romney has already been chosen by the ruling class global banking aristocracy, just as Obama was chosen bewfore him; and just as Bush had been chosen before “Barry Soetero”. …..etc. etc…. and so-on all the way back to Woodrow Wilson, when this “conversion” actually began. Case-in-point: The Florida “recount’, during the Bush-Gore contest, only happened because the frauduent voting system in Florida failed to provide the win; to the already chosen winner…so they had to go back and “correct the anomalies”.

At the end fo the day; the most important milestone that must be achieved next; is to get Obama out office. Because, he indeed is a devout Communist, in the Marx tradition. During his next term; he may be in a position to appoint another 3 Supreme Court justices…..this would be the biggest dister to the United States since FDR (who himself appointed 8 of the 9; which is the basic reason that today, we have the courrpt and dysfunctional systems of Social Security, Welfare, Medicare, Medicaid; all of which have remained unchallenged as to their constutionality.

I obviously cannot speak for them; but I believe that Ron Paul and Rand Paul likely have the same conclusions, and it is for that reason; that Rand Paul has recently stated his support for Romney. With that, in parallel with the enormous support that Dr. Ron Paul has garnered from those of us in this country who actually have a brain; they both believe that our best hope going forward, is to deal with the inevitable; by letting the RNC (Republican National Committee) know; that WE KNOW, that we are being duped against our will; into accepting Romeny as the defacto Nominiee, but in this case; they are ON NOTICE: OK, If it’s Romney you want, then fine…..we’ll “use him” to get Obama out…..but Ron Paul’s constituency — Those devoted to Liberty, Property Rights, and the US Constitution; will be “camping” on Romney’s front door; and he had better be listening to US, more than his bankster buddies who are putting him there; because what comes during his “presidency” is going to be up to him…..and up to US. In other words, we may be better off, driving INFLUENCE over the entire Republican party; rather than trying to “write in” Ron Paul, which more than likely, may be just a futile gesture anyway.

In any case, I could be wrong, which is what I mean when I say, “I’m on the fence”; but we are dealing with forces here, that can only be subject to speculation.

Whetever you decide to do, the most important is to be devoted to TRUTH, and to remain a loud and resounding voice for liberty, property rights, and the US Constitution. Socialism, in any form, is fundamentally evil. There is no such thing, as “a little socialism”…..that is like being “a little pregnant”…. once it starts….it only gets bigger. It is YOUR vote, so cast it as YOU see fit, regardless of what anyone on this or any anonymous blog says……If it makes you “feel better” to “write in” Ron Paul; then maybe that is what you should do. As for me, I still haven’t yet decided to be honest. I have been and will continue to be an ARDENT, DEVOTED, and LOUDLY VOCAL Ron Paul supporter; but my practical sense, compels me to first and foremost, do whatever is necessary to remove the current incompetent poser from office.

RON PAUL FOR PRESIDENT

Mr. Watkins,

I can hardly believe that you feel that way. Obama has had 3 1/2 years to make good. Everything he has done has destroyed the economy. He is anti-military, and that’s something you should be aware of. At least the Republicans believe in a strong America, with an up to date military. What in the world do you think he’ll do, if reelected? America will be destroyed, because that is his objective. From his own book, he wrote: ” If the winds take an ugly turn, I will stand with the Muslims!” He is the enemy!

IOU,
With brains like yours, we are finished. Thank God, at least half the country does still have theirs.

Did Barack put you up to this, Michelle?