Comments Subscribe to Personal Liberty Digest™ News Feed Subscribe to Personal Liberty Digest™ 

Opting Out Of Vaccines May Get Easier

February 28, 2012 by  

Opting Out Of Vaccines May Get Easier

Some States are considering legislation that would make it easier for parents to opt out their children from mandatory vaccinations via philosophical exemptions, according to the Immunization Action Coalition.

Mississippi and West Virginia, two die-hard vaccination States that grant no exemptions except medical, are now considering exemptions based upon philosophical beliefs. That’s very telling, I think.

On Feb. 22, parents rallied in Charleston, W.V., in support of Senate Bill 50, which would permit nonmedical exemptions for vaccines. Participant Claudia Raymer, founder of We the People, claimed the chicken pox vaccine is unnecessary because it’s not a deadly disease and that the Hepatitis B vaccine is unnecessary for infants, since Hepatitis B is a sexually transmitted disease.

Perhaps parents are becoming concerned about the 36 vaccines children must receive in order to attend school. Eighteen of those vaccines contain the neurotoxin aluminum. The DTaP vaccine contains 625 mcg of aluminum; the Hepatitis B vaccine contains 375 mcg of aluminum and is given within 24 hours of birth; and the Hib vaccine contains 225 mcg of aluminum, according to Russell Blaylock, M.D., a neurosurgeon and expert on excitotoxins, chemicals that affect the brain.

Twenty-seven States and Washington, D.C. allow religious exemption. The 27 religious exemption States are: Arkansas, Alabama, Connecticut, Delaware, Florida, Georgia, Hawaii, Iowa, Illinois, Indiana, Kansas, Kentucky, Massachusetts, Maryland, Missouri, Montana, North Carolina, Nebraska, New Jersey, Nevada, New York, Rhode Island, South Carolina, South Dakota, Tennessee, Virginia and Wyoming.

It seems that some States granting religious exemptions now are considering philosophical exemptions. To see a religious exemption vaccination opt-out form for Washington, D.C., click here. You probably could use this form as a guide, but make certain that you cite your State’s correct code section (§).

Personal or philosophical belief exemptions currently are granted in 21 States, according to Mayer Eisenstein, M.D.

A philosophical exemption is not restricted solely to religious or spiritual beliefs but includes the moral and/or personal beliefs of parents and/or adults. For example, California’s philosophical vaccination exemption objections can be based simply on a parent’s personal beliefs with no other reason needed, including medical.

The 21 personal exemption States are: Arkansas, Arizona, California, Colorado, Idaho, Louisiana, Maine, Michigan, Minnesota, North Dakota, New Hampshire, New Mexico, Ohio, Oklahoma, Oregon, Pennsylvania, Texas, Utah, Vermont, Washington and Wisconsin.

The two medical only exemption States are Mississippi and West Virginia.

Click here to view a Hepatitis B Vaccination Consent/Refusal Form for adults. Keep in mind, though, that the Hepatitis B vaccination is given to infants within 24 hours of birth and twice thereafter. Parents who want to opt out of that vaccination for their child should sign an opt-out form before the child is born. The mother should take it with her to the birthing facility, and the father should make certain it is enforced. I’ve heard stories of nurses waking mothers during the night to ask permission to vaccinate the baby with the Hepatitis B vaccine, even when the parents have said they didn’t want one for their baby. I believe both parents-to-be should sign the form in the presence of a notary public. That may prevent legal problems should the parents ever split up.

Information surfacing from Australia may be encouraging opposition to vaccines and prompting Legislatures to rethink vaccination mandates. It seems the Australian government has awarded CSL, the maker of Fluvax®, a $117 million contract to supply seasonal and pandemic flu vaccines until 2016.

Australia’s 9News reported: “The vaccine has, however, been banned for use in children under five after it triggered febrile convulsions in some children in 2010.”

So what happens with children younger than 5?

“The federal Health Department also awarded contracts to British-based GlaxoSmithKline and French company Sanofi who will provide vaccines Fluarix and Vaxigrip for children under 10.”

In the United States, getting an annual influenza vaccine is recommended for children, beginning at 6 months of age. Click here for the immunization schedule. Can you see why many parents are becoming concerned with the ever-growing number of mandated vaccinations? Did you count the number in a child’s first year of life?

Vaccinations really don’t make ecological sense, since they pump loads of toxins into infants and toddlers. When will they realize you can’t poison a body into wellness? You can be certain teens and adults receive toxins, too. Maybe this growing concern will force the Food and Drug Administration and Big Pharma to do the right thing, but please don’t hold your breath.

–Catherine J. Frompovich

Editor’s note: If your State Legislature is considering philosophical exemption legislation, please let us know so we can pass that information along to our readers.–BL

Catherine J. Frompovich

matriculated in holistic modalities and natural nutrition, earning advanced degrees in Nutrition and Holistic Health Sciences and a Certification in Orthomolecular Theory and Practice. She spent numerous years in practice as a consulting natural nutritionist and over 35 years in consumer health research and writing, which she continues in retirement. For years she worked as a healthcare rights advocate to ensure that the "powers to be" would not have their way in destroying complementary / holistic healthcare and its modalities as "quackery." For five years she edited The Healthcare Rights Advocate, a 32 page quarterly newsletter centered on the politics of healthcare in the 1980s. In the late 1980s and 1990s she represented holistic healthcare interests on Capitol Hill, Washington, DC. As a freelance journalist, Catherine wrote and produced two TV shows. One, "Turn Off The Violence," was nominated for the 1996 Telly Award. Her work has been published in The Journal of Orthomolecular Medicine and other holistic healthcare journals, airline travel magazines, community newspapers, national magazines, and online Internet forums. She is the author of several books on natural nutrition and holistic healthcare. Her last book, Our Chemical Lives And The Hijacking Of Our DNA, A Probe Into What's Probably Making Us Sick, is available here. She has new book scheduled for publication in 2012 that will be titled, A Cancer Answer: Holistic Breast Cancer Management, A Guide to Effective & Non-Toxic Treatments.

Facebook Conversations

Join the Discussion:
View Comments to “Opting Out Of Vaccines May Get Easier”

Comment Policy: We encourage an open discussion with a wide range of viewpoints, even extreme ones, but we will not tolerate racism, profanity or slanderous comments toward the author(s) or comment participants. Make your case passionately, but civilly. Please don't stoop to name calling. We use filters for spam protection. If your comment does not appear, it is likely because it violates the above policy or contains links or language typical of spam. We reserve the right to remove comments at our discretion.

Is there news related to personal liberty happening in your area? Contact us at newstips@personalliberty.com

  • VetriDani

    “Polio was one of the clearly great vaccination success stories…”

    …or was it?

    Six New England states reported increases in polio one year after the Salk vaccine was introduced, ranging from more than doubling in Vermont to Massachusetts’ astounding increase of 642%. In 1959, 77.5% of Massachusetts’ paralytic cases had received 3 doses of IPV (injected polio vaccine). During 1962 U.S. Congressional hearings, Dr. Bernard Greenberg, head of the Dept. of Biostatistics for the University of North Carolina School of Public Health, testified that not only did the cases of polio increase substantially after mandatory vaccinations (50% increase from 1957 to 1958, 80% increase from 1958 to 1959), but that the statistics were manipulated by the Public Health Service to give the opposite impression.[39]

    According to researcher-author Dr. Viera Scheibner, 90% of polio cases were eliminated from statistics by health authorities’ redefinition of the disease when the vaccine was introduced, while in reality the Salk vaccine was continuing to cause paralytic polio in several countries at a time when there were no epidemics being caused by the wild virus.

    For example, in the U.S., thousands of cases of viral and aseptic meningitis are reported each year–these were routinely diagnosed as polio before the Saulk vaccine; the number of cases needed to declare an epidemic was raised from 20 to 35; and the requirement for inclusion in paralysis statistics was changed from symptoms for 24 hours to symptoms for 60 days; it is no wonder that polio decreased radically after vaccines–at least on paper.

    In 1985, the CDC reported that 87% of the cases of polio in the U.S. between 1973 and 1983 were caused by the vaccine, and later declared that all but a few imported cases since were caused by the vaccine–and most of the imported cases occurred in fully immunized individuals.

    Jonas Salk, inventor of the IPV, testified before a Senate subcommittee that nearly all polio outbreaks since 1961 were caused by the oral polio vaccine. At a workshop on polio vaccines sponsored by the Institute of Medicine and the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, Dr. Samuel Katz of Duke University cited the estimated 8-10 annual U.S. cases of vaccine-associated paralytic polio (VAPP) in people who have taken the oral polio vaccine, and the [four year] absence of wild polio from the western hemisphere.

    Jessica Scheer of the National Rehabilitation Hospital Research Center in Washington, D.C., pointed out that most parents are unaware that polio vaccination in this country entails “a small number of human sacrifices each year.” Compounding this contradiction are low adverse event reporting and the NVIC’s experiences with confirming and correcting misdiagnoses of vaccine reactions, which suggest that the actual number of VAPP “sacrifices” may be many times higher than the number cited by the CDC.

    TRUTH

    “Vaccines caused substantial increases in polio after years of steady declines, and they are the sole cause of polio in the U.S. today.”

  • Chris P

    Another site that show Republicans complete ignorance of biology and all things scientific. Paranoid and stupid.

    The less kids get vaccinated – the more kids will die – FACT.

    You should be more worried about smoking, chewing tobacco, fast food, plastic flame retardants, household scented candles and all things scented if you really want to look after your children

    • May

      Read the New England Journal of Medicine which states, “Hepatitis B Vaccine Causes Kawasaki Disease”. Are you really a slave to the Democratic party? Sad really… Thomas Jefferson said, “Do not be a slave to your party”.

  • Audrey Aune

    A side comment from a REAL nurse……hire a working RN to pose for your pics! Injectables are NEVER given where you show in this pic….needle poised right over the sciatic nerve. Not to detract from the intent of your article, but if using pics at least get it right and help validate the article.

  • VetriDani

    These graphs show how many of these diseases were almost eradicated before vaccines were introduced…it also shows an increase in diphtheria and pertussis once vaccines were introduced. Notice the connection of increased mortality rates in children under 5, the more vaccinations required, the higher the percentage of infant mortality. These facts should not be ignored.

    http://vaxtruth.org/2011/08/immunization-graphs-natural-infectious-disease-declines-immunization-effectiveness-and-immunization-dangers/

    • DaveH

      Great post, VetriDani. Thank you.

      • VetriDani

        You’re welcome Dave. I found this a few years ago (not from the site it’s currently on) and have noticed it has since become quite popular. I do notice that none of the pro-vaxers have commented on it, which is usually the case.

  • p. tinsley

    What might we do?If they start injecting us with die before your 50 shots and maybe the ones who don’t believe in the now administration get a shot Die before your old enough to vote? WITH ALL THE ILLEGALS AND THE SHIPPING CONTAINERS COMING IN TO THE COUNTRY, i DO THINK EVERY ONE WHO DON’T WANT TO DIE EARLY SHOULD GET SHOTS, WHO WOULD HAVE THOUGHT MEASELS WOULD BREAK OUT AGAIN IN THIS COUNTRY,

    • Karolyn

      What?

  • Roy

    Kentucky is listed as accepting religious exemption but if you actually try to use it they find excuses to reject you. You must be a member of very specific religious denominations that are on their record as in opposition to immunizations to qualify. I asked for religious exemption but mine was not on their list. When forced to take the shots my son then had a serious reaction.

    • http://gravatar.com/katrael59ganaiden katrael59ganaiden

      Roy, if more of us would do the right thing and resist these evil people who wish to force their will on other people then maybe we could return this country to sanity. What’s going to happen if we resist? They’ll take our children from us and vaccinate them anyway? So, is that a reason to voluntarily have our children injected with poison? This is quickly a country being taken over by special interest groups so maybe we need to become one and demand our rights.

  • Dave

    How about if we change the laws back to where the parents can sue for unlimited amounts against the vaccine producers as well as the doctors administering these poisons when they cause health problems. As well as any school or system that mandates you inject your child with poisons.

  • leonard plodzien

    Check it out with NVIC (National Vaccine Information Center). Since more and more BIG PHARMA companies are getting caught and fined when their drugs are NOTICEABLY killing and maiming patients, they are getting desperate and pushing vaccines. Do not get vaccinated or have your children vaccinated. Vaccines are DANGEROUS. People are dying and being maimed by vaccines. Remember, the “sick industry” is in the business of making money. They are NOT interested in healing or preventing.

    • http://gravatar.com/katrael59ganaiden katrael59ganaiden

      Thank you leonard plodzien for speaking out and I thank everyone on this site who speaks out against those who seek to deprive us of life, and liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

  • JPK

    From: http://www.http://kidshealth.org/parent/infections/bacterial_viral/polio.html

    Polio (also called poliomyelitis) is a contagious, historically devastating disease that was virtually eliminated from the Western hemisphere in the second half of the 20th century. Although polio has plagued humans since ancient times, its most extensive outbreak occurred in the first half of the 1900s before the vaccination created by Jonas Salk became widely available in 1955.

    At the height of the polio epidemic in 1952, nearly 60,000 cases with more than 3,000 deaths were reported in the United States alone. However, with widespread vaccination, wild-type polio, or polio occurring through natural infection, was eliminated from the United States by 1979 and the Western hemisphere by 1991.

    • John

      Don’t confuse the people with facts, they rather give in to the anti vaccination paranoia then think about the future, Just because viruses like polio are non existent in the western world does not mean they are not around, they kill millions in the rest of the world every year. Through the ease of travel, viruses can be spread extreme fast and if we have a population that is not protected, it will be but a mater of time before those outbreaks are happening again.

      • Bandarji

        So go ahead and vaccine you and yours and let others do as they wish. If vaccinations protect you, then what is your problem about those who choose otherwise? According to you they are going to reap their reward.

        They will vaccinate me kicking and screaming. I’m in my late 60s, no medications, exceptionally healthy. Not so for my siblings and many in my peer group. What is my secret? Healthy food, good hygiene, no smoking, no alcohol, no drugs, (perscription of otherwise) yoga and exercise, sunlight (forget sunscreen, another scam) no promiscous sex, careful selection of people in my home and life. I just could live to 98 like my modest happy grandmother.

      • http://gravatar.com/katrael59ganaiden katrael59ganaiden

        John, you’re right about not being protected. Bacteria and viruses are normal things in this world that the body comes in regular contact with. The body has it’s own mechanism for dealing with these pathogens. our body’s have on and in them their own set of biological organisms that have a symbiotic relationship with the body they inhabit. If these are gone due to over washing with harsh soaps and by the indiscriminate use of anit- bionics then that person succumbs to hostile pathogens. A healthy body with these friendly symbiotic organisms can defend itself. And if the body can’t fight for itself a vaccine may do more damage than good. There is no proof vaccines work but plenty that shows that good health does. Get healthy John. I’m not paranoid about vaccines because a vaccine doesn’t administer itself, deluded authority figures do that.
        There is a constitutional matter here also, and that is that you shouldn’t be able to force me to poison my children and that’s the real issue here, one of rights. It’s obvious that people who speak out against vaccinations are not at all convinced they do any good, and for good reason because upon logical thinking and diligent investigation they’ve discovered the lies about it. A person, a parent, has the god given right to refuse to harm their child even if a bad law says they have to.
        The only way that a person can show that a vaccine really works is if the true health of all of the people is fully understood then a determination of how and why some people get sick while others don’t can be intelligently made.
        This is really an issue OF LIBERTY!!!! Leave those of us who don’t want this poison alone!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Inject it by the gallons into your body if you love it so much. And, what do you have to fear if I’m not vaccinated, the viruses are still in the environment. They came from somewhere to begin with. Aren’t you protected by your precious vaccine?

      • http://gravatar.com/katrael59ganaiden katrael59ganaiden

        Besides John, it’s you who is really paranoid. You’re the one who is afraid that these diseases are going come back and kill people. And you know, you’re right, they will, but not because I’m not vaccinated. I can still carry an active virus or bacteria if it’s in me whether I’m vaccinated or not. This issue may speak more to quarantine than it does about vaccination.
        Are you really that concerned for me and mine? Mind your own business. I didn’t ask for your intervention and I don’t want it. I have that right and I also have that right to determine that for my children.
        Trying to force people to do things against their will is what drives them to be militant. You’d better be paranoid about them.

    • DaveH

      What proof do you have, JPK, that Polio wouldn’t have died out naturally due to a naturally occurring resistance among the population? And what proof do you offer that Polio has even really been eradicated?
      This is an interesting article. The History of Health:
      http://www.healthfreedomusa.org/?p=731

      I don’t care what conclusions you personally come to, JPK. All I ask is that you don’t Force your way on me and mine through Big Government.

      • http://gravatar.com/katrael59ganaiden katrael59ganaiden

        Hey DaveH you’re right, the real issue here is one of liberty. One we already have and don’t have to get permission to enjoy. The rest of this stuff while important is beside the point. This is about the right for us to fight for our freedom and liberty.

    • http://boblivingstonpl.wordpress.com Bob Livingston
    • May

      You CANNOT prove that beyond a reasonable doubt!

    • http://gravatar.com/katrael59ganaiden katrael59ganaiden

      JPK,
      At the height of the polio epidemic in 1952, nearly 60,000 cases with more than 3,000 deaths were reported in the United States alone. However, with widespread vaccination, wild-type polio, or polio occurring through natural infection, was eliminated from the United States by 1979 and the Western hemisphere by 1991.
      While the statement that 60,000 cases with more than 3,000 deaths may be some kind of statistic it doesn’t prove anything other than there were 60,000 cases and 3,000 deaths. This proves nothing about the efficacy of vaccinations just because someone wrote it down. The real issue is this: give us our liberty and the right to refuse the vaccine. Well, really we already have the right we just need to get the courage to fight against those who wish to force their will on us. Go drink your vaccine poison if you wish.

  • Airangel

    It’s amaing how everyone bi-partisan for the most part against Maffia Medicines greed and are paying attention to autism on the rise from increased vaccines but this article is scary from Natural News.

    The war against defenders of vaccine exemption rights and medical freedom has just crossed the line. The New York Ninth Judiciary District is threatening vaccine rights attorney Patricia Finn with revoking her law license and potentially charging her with a criminal offense.

    They are also demanding she surrender her list of vaccine exemption clients so that the state can go after those parents one by one.

    New York State is now fully engaged in what I call “gunpoint medicine,” where freedom of choice is criminalized and total compliance with conventional medical poisons is demanded by corrupt health authorities who parrot total vaccine quackery.

    Health Ranger interviewed Patricia Finn about all this. Read my full report here:
    http://www.naturalnews.com/035094_Patricia_Finn_vaccinations_health_freedom.html

  • FreedomFighter

    George Orwell’s “1984″

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NTbrcg3mkZs&feature=related

    This is fiction, I think, interesting non-the-less. Now go get that flu shot, government want you to.

    Laus Deo
    Semper fi

  • DaveH

    Wow, California, one of the most Liberal States in the Union is actually allowing parents to protect their own children. Maybe there is some goodness in Liberals after all.

    • Bandarji

      I have friends living in California and they are dealing with school and medical people pushing gardasil on their children and telling the children they don’t have to tell their parents. Enlightened state? Not so much.

  • FreedomFighter

    Attorney Patricia Finn Harassed by NYS Ninth Judicial for Defending Victims of Vaccine Poison

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cz_DfUlJ9NI&feature=uploademail

    Looks like government want to take your job/children if you dont let them poison them or yourself with vaccines.

    Laus Deo
    Semper Fi

  • Dntmkmecmoverther

    I’m wanting the vaccination against stupid….still waiting though :-)

    • DaveH

      Stupidity doesn’t worry me at all, but stupid people voting for Government to force their way on other people is indeed very worrisome.

  • Claudia Walker

    I always believed in vaccines so my children recieved DPT and polio innoculations. Also vaccination for small pox. My first clue came in the 70′s when someone at work had a reaction to small pox vaccine as a child. In England the people there had bad reaction so they no longer vaccinated for small pox. Then the MMR became available for free at school for my youngest at the time. We were told that these were dread diseases like diptheria. What! I lived through hard measles as a child. (an inconveniece for parents who work.) My children had chicken pox, mumps and rubella. This is the way natural immunity works. Kids were healthy and strong. Now they have vaccines containing aluminum, egg, human fetal cells, and who knows what else. Diseases go though cycles where they wax and wane. I no longer believe that vaccines have helped anyone from ‘catching’ a disease. Build your own immunity through healthy eating, fresh air, sunshine and adequate sleep.

    • Capitalist at Birth

      There are many herbal supplements that help the immune system as well.

  • roger gunderson

    Why do you suppose that we are getting more drug resistant germs?

    • DaveH

      Bacteria regularly mutate in nature due to various causes, natural radiation probably being the most common cause. If those mutations are survivable, the new strain may be resistant to current antibiotics. Some microbiologists (maybe most) believe that if those mutated strains are present when a person is taking antibiotics, the competing bacteria will be killed allowing the resistant bacteria to multiply more easily. Note that the antibiotics did not cause the mutations. Rather, they facilitated their growth. So, the mutated strains are becoming existent regardless of antibiotics.
      Also note that vaccinations are aimed at Viruses which are not the same as Bacteria.

  • Allen

    Here’s an idea. How about spreading out the “so-called” mandatory vaccinations over a period of time, say within the first 5 years, before entering school. The other vaccinations, such as hepatitis B, can be given after the age of 10, since it is not needed in the first 10 years of life. That way, all the vaccines won’t be in the body at the same time. Another way would be if the toxins in the vaccines could be cut down without losing it’s potency.

    • Alexandra Federov

      Poison yourself more slowly, smart idea! How many vaccines have you had? They cause brain damage you know…

      • Capitalist at Birth

        I have had two vaccines in my life. Both of them for polio. I don’t know if those vaccines in the 50′s and60′s had aluminum in them. i have tried to educate all of my family and friends on the dangers of aluminum. Are any of you aware that ALL deodorants contain aluminum that is absorbed into the body? Baking soda and water work just as well. So does rubbing alcohol.

      • DaveH

        Baking Powder still commonly has aluminum as an ingredient.

      • DaveH

        And before you say something — I know Baking Powder is not the same as Baking Soda, although both contain Sodium Bicarbonate.

      • Libertytrain

        Actually it is very simple to buy aluminum free baking soda..I use something called “Bob’s Red Mill” – I’m sure there are others.

      • james

        Argo and Rumford brands of baking powder are aluminum free. Levilin brand of deodorant is aluminum free ( have used it for nearly 25 years, expensive but effective).

      • James

        Again, I am not the “James” that wrote this.

      • DaveH

        Libertytrain,
        We have used Rumford Aluminum-Free Baking Powder for years.

      • http://gravatar.com/katrael59ganaiden katrael59ganaiden

        Alexandra Federov, your comment to….whatever his name was made me laugh. How true. These poor souls out there who think this madness of vaccinations can somehow be made better by cutting back on the amount of toxic material in them are deceived. It will never be a good idea to put that stuff in any amount into the body. On the other hand: at least that person is trying to think and they need to acknowledged for putting out some effort. Maybe they’ll wake up one day?

  • Ted Crawford

    Something that concerns me here is the fact that Hillary, while attempting to implement her version of Obama Care, forced American Vaccine Manufactures to provide, free of charge of course, vaccines to certain groups of people. That caused many to either eliminate that portion of their business or move it offshore.
    I’ve refused the Flu Vaccine these past several years due to the fact that vaccines have become so commonplace that most providers have no idea of their sources!

  • doctordoctor

    Holistic “medicine” is for the most part chiropractic witch craftery. My sister died after resorting to “holistic” treatment for her breast cancer. Early surgery is the treatment for breast cancer in cases like hers, but she elected to eat almonds or some other holistic quackery. She was only fifty. When I was a kid, there was no such thing as “autism” and I never knew one single kid my age with “asthma.” I do not take vaccine any longer. There are too many vaccines which seems to correlate with too much autism and too much asthma. TRC M.D. , D.M.D.

    • Karolyn

      I swear by holistic medicine. When I was diagnosed with hepC 10 years ago, I chose to forego chemo because of all the horror stories I heard. I continue to be very healthy, with no symptoms. I have known people who underwent chemo therapy and had their health ruined for life. The body was made to heal itself given the proper conditions. There are natural cancer treatment methods that are very effective and very cheap that are villified or not even noted. Vitamin D3 is becoming more important in treatments. I will reiterate the story of the man who had swine flu and was on his deathbed. His family had to force the hospital to give him IV D3, and he was cured.

      • Capitalist at Birth

        Do you really think doctordoctor is a real Doctor? I just had a visit with my D.O. and discussed my attempts to solve my low testosterone and my E.D. problem with herbal remedies. He said continue with those before resorting to the expensive big pharma solutions, as they are dangerous and not proven to work in all cases, not to mention the expense. I guess all Doctors do not agree.

      • Doug

        No Karolyn what they game him after the hospital was going to take him off life support was Vitamin C Ascorbic Acid 50 grams twice a day. Then after a few days his lungs started to clear up so what did the hospital do they tried to lower the dose to 1 gram twice a day and of course he started to get worse again. The family found out and was already giving him oral Lypo-Spheric Viamin C and then made the hospital put him back on twice a day 50gram drips. He was cured and out of the hospital in a couple of weeks. If the hospital had its way it would have killed him! Vitamin C can cure in large doses many diseases read the book Primal Panacea. And for liberally disease John there was a doctor curing polio years before the vaccine with large doses of vitamin C no need for a vaccine but be pharmy and the medical crime unit can’t make any money on ascorbic acid its to cheap! Keep following your orders you dumb ass!

      • http://gravatar.com/katrael59ganaiden katrael59ganaiden

        Karolyn, your right about D3. There is a much better source for it though, go out strip naked DO NOT PUT ANY LOTIONS OR POTIONS ON YOUR SKIN and lay in the sun then don’t wash for at least an hour. The cholesterol that is secreted by the skin turns into vitamin D and is reabsorbed by the skin where it enters into the blood stream to do it’s thing. Don’t wash for at least an hour after your exposure to the sun or you’ll wash it off before your skin has had a chance to absorb it. One top of the sun the skin will benefit from the air. Great therapy.
        The sun is our friend we either evolved in it or were created to be in it. Take your choice. The sun does not cause cancer, toxic substances in the body does. I guess there is a point to be made for someone who is highly toxic to begin with to avoid the sun?

    • Capitalist at Birth

      You are a perfect example of why i do not trust blindly anybody with and M.D, after their name.

      • May

        Right on Capitalist! After losing our child many times you understand why they call medicine “Practicing”. I ask the deniers here, “Where is the MD’s cure for cancer?”

      • http://gravatar.com/katrael59ganaiden katrael59ganaiden

        Your right Capitalist at Birth, you can’t trust them. I built an office for a doctor friend of mine. The day I finished he came to me and whispered “I pray that somebody gets sick, I’ve got to pay for this thing.” I looked at him and said, “you don’t have to pray for that it’ll happen anyway. You’ll have plenty of victims.” This was his third clinic. His wife, who was my physician for such things as stitches ran one of them and a nurse practitioner ran the other for him. The whole thing was about money. To be fair though, there are a few who attempt to do the right thing, but, very few.

    • Tim

      Doctordoctor, there is no such thing as “wholistic ‘medicine’”. The words are competing ideologies. The premise of your assertion is flawed from the beginning. True chiropractic is more scientific that most medical procedures. Although to your point, more people every year seek “alternative” care, yet our nation continues to get sicker…..

    • Millie

      Please do not use the term chiropractic when speaking using the term “witchcraft”. You do not know what you are speaking about when you do that. Boy, I would love to have my son, who is a Doctor of Chiropractic educate you.

      Looking at a family that eats healthy natural foods, avoids medications, are physically active, are vaccine free, all the while going to public school and being involved with youth sports and other youth activities (therefore, being exposed to all sorts of germs and diseases), I do not see sickly children. I do not see children that are now resistant to antibiotic use. Which means, that if they really needed it in a medical crisis, they would not be antibiotic resistant. Medical intervention is only needed when, truly, there is a crisis that needs to be addressed.

      And another poster mentioned about how, when they were young, there was no autism, asthma, allergies and such. Antibiotics were not used for everything under the sun by doctors. ADHD drugs were not perscribed. I have often thought about that myself. Vaccinations were not required to go to school. I remember when I was in kindergarten, they offered the measles vaccine AS A TRIAL OF THE VACCINE. WTF Grade school children were being used as guinea pigs.

      • http://gravatar.com/katrael59ganaiden katrael59ganaiden

        Millie, your right about Chiropractics not being witchcraft. There are real reasons why it works. Although not all Chiropractors are good ones. Maybe a bad chiropractor is the reason for some people feeling like it doesn’t work?
        I don’t believe that a chiropractor can cure everything, you can’t cure chronic dehydration by adjusting the spine. But, there are so many things that a spinal adjustment will cure.
        An impinged nerve in the spine will cause pain and other problems anywhere in the body.

    • Bandarji

      Ok doc, and the chemo and radiation has statiscally insignificant effect on cancer except for 3 types, childhood lukemia, testicular cancer and lymphoma. I know women who went the radiation and chemo way and they are dead. I know adnocystic cancer patients who destroyed their health with radiation and the cancer came back right on schedule. It is allopathic medicine that has become quackery. The drugs are destroying and killing people right and left and still are handed out like candy.

      • http://gravatar.com/katrael59ganaiden katrael59ganaiden

        Bandarji, Keep up the good fight and keep speaking out against this nonsense. I don’t know if you believe in a higher power or not but there was a man almost two thousand years ago who heard this message and wrote it down:
        Rev 18:23 And the light of a candle shall shine no more at all in thee; and the voice of the bridegroom and of the bride shall be heard no more at all in thee: for thy merchants were the great men of the earth; for by thy sorceries G5331 were all nations deceived.
        G5331 G5331
        φαρμακεία
        pharmakeia
        far-mak-i’-ah
        From G5332; medication (“pharmacy”), that is, (by extension) magic (literal or figurative): – sorcery, witchcraft.
        The word sorcery here came from the word pharmakeia. You can see the definition. This world has become deceived by a mountain of lies. The body heals itself when we stop abusing it and provide it with the raw material for it to make the repairs. It’s that simple.
        Of course on the other hand, those that don’t take care of themselves have plenty to be afraid of and a vaccine won’t help them when they get sick.

    • Moosedrool

      Why is it that “holistic” treatment is always blamed for the cancer death, but when the death occurs during or after chemo/rad it is blamed on the cancer? The goal of mainstream cancer treatment is to “kill the cancer before you kill the the patient”. Wow, that is really comforting. Why do you think that the chemo drugs have nicknames like “red death”? There is a reason for it.
      Then there is the fact that natural treatments are often sought as a last resort. Sure, wait until you have thoroughly poisoned your body and let the disease get to advanced stages, then “try” the natural way. That only sets up the natural treatment for failure.

      • May

        My mother who is 80 years old, has lost many, many friends who have died from the Chemo. The chemo always killed them off WAY BEFORE the cancer took their lives!

  • David

    Vaccinations really don’t make ecological sense, since they pump loads of toxins into infants and toddlers. When will they realize you can’t poison a body into wellness?

    This statement alone speaks of an ignorance so profound as to be disturbing. We build immunities through exposure. That is simple genetics. Studies show that as anti-bacterial products came into wider use, a larger percentage of people are increasingly acquiring diseases for which they have no immunity. The body’s immune system becomes stronger as it’s faced with attackers from the inside. It doesn’t get any simpler than that.

    Should we be concerned about what is in a vaccine? Sure. Components that are known neral toxins should be removed, but to refuse all vaccinations invites the return of diseases we’ve all but conquered. Measles was once common, but vaccinations have quite literally set it on the path to extinction.

    I’ve always been a healthy child and i accept the role vaccinations have played. I’ve also never been one to worry much about disease. If I tear my hand open working on a car, I wrap a dirty rag around it and keep going. I don’t stop and clean the wound and use anti-bacterial products. The kids I knew growing up who take all these precautions are the worse for it and will no doubt die much sooner than myself.

    • Karolyn

      When I was a kid, there were few vaccinations, and the diseases we were vaccinated against have been virtually wiped out. One can’t help but wonder if all the vaccinations given to the kids are not just the cause of autism but also have something to do with all of the allergies kids suffer from these days. When I was a kid, nobody had allergies. Childhood asthma? Never happened! Sinus/ear infections? Never had one.

      • John

        So, what you are saying is that just because those deceases are wiped out in the US we should stop guarding against them ? If so you better ban world wide travel because all of those are still destroying life’s in countries people travel to and from and thus, once the immunity of this generation is gone they will rear their ugly heads again…

      • Karolyn

        Well, John, if we keep hammering the public and educating them about how to properly care for their bodies, there will be more with the ability to fight off anything. The body is designed to heal itself given the right conditions. Disease and illness are a part of life. Americans have turned into hypochondriacs. For every little sniffle, they run to the doctor and will take whatever he gives them with no question because he is “God.” I am wondering how old you are John?

      • http://gravatar.com/katrael59ganaiden katrael59ganaiden

        Karolyn, I was just getting ready to come down hard on you and I decided to reread your comment. I agree with you, take care of your health and you won’t have to worry about vaccines. Keep your kids healthy and the same thing applies. And you’re absolutely right that the body will heal itself if given the chance and right nutrition.
        The people who promote vaccines are deluded.
        I’ll bet you know plenty of people who have beaten their disease by becoming healthy? I know quite a few myself. Cancer, arthritis, asthma, diabetes, emphysema and much more.

      • http://gravatar.com/bychoosing Jay

        10/4 on both of your posts Karolyn! Yeah, i know; what?; Jay agrees with me? …yup!

    • DaveH

      David says — “This statement alone speaks of an ignorance so profound as to be disturbing”.
      And your comment demonstrates that ignorance how?

      David says — “Measles was once common, but vaccinations have quite literally set it on the path to extinction”.
      You know that how, David? Diseases die out naturally in any ecological system. What proof do you have to offer that vaccinations have affected the decrease in Measles?
      http://www.healthfreedomusa.org/?m=200809&paged=4

      David says — “I’ve always been a healthy child and i accept the role vaccinations have played. I’ve also never been one to worry much about disease”.
      Great, David, I respect your choices. Now how about respecting ours?

    • TomP

      David,

      It is true that we develop immunity from being exposed to pathogens, But the degree of effect is directly related to the condition of the immune system, your gut specifically. The only defense is having a robust immune system. Vitamin D is THE most imprtant factor to do this. SImply injecting a foreign body is counter productive if there are few T-cells to go to battle for you. It’s even worse if there are neurotoxins like aluminum or mercury associated with them.

  • Heather

    Grow up and protect your kids. Get over your selfishness and make sure they don’t suffer major diseases because you want to be all trendy. Don’t get the ones like chicken-pox, that’s fine, but do we really want another polio breakout US wide because you whiny parents just want to fight the system? The mortality rate of being vaccinated against these diseases is significantly less than if you actually get the disease. Then your kid dies because you were a piss poor parent that was more worried about their feelings than the welfare of the kid. I think you all should go to prison the second your kids get diseases.

    • Karolyn

      I bet you even believe that pasteurized milk is good for us. Have you done any research to back up your assertions?

      • doctordoctor

        Karolyn, I think Heather has had too much Kool-Aid. She needs to have her mouth washed out with soap also.

      • Heather

        Research? Really? Because the years of well-know deaths from diseases aren’t enough? I understand that vaccinations have neurotoxins in them, I get that there are medical and religious reasons to not do it, what I don’t get or agree with is people that are just doing it because they feel like it.These are the people that will religiously watch over their kids, not let them go over to other kid’s houses if they think they might get “dirty”, only let them play in their pristine backyards and generally protect them against any type of contact with any germs. If they aren’t vaccinated and they have no exposure, the will get diseases if exposed to them. They are the worst kind of parent. Now if you can show me a parent, who is doing this for simply personal reasons, who isn’t overprotective and lets their kids go get in the mud and the muck and naturally get exposed to stuff, kudos to them, I can respect that, not necessarily agree, but respect it all the same. Unfortunately the reality of it is that the parents that are doing this for their own personal reasons are the overprotective type, and if infected their kids will end up dying, and for that, yes I do think they should go to prison.

      • Karolyn

        Those parents who don’t allow their kids to play in the dirt and sanitize everything are also the ones who want their kids vaccinated.

    • Capitalist at Birth

      I think you should go straight to hell.

      • Capitalist at Birth

        Where you belong.

      • Heather

        If I do it won’t be because my parent’s didn’t get me vaccinated and I won’t have lived an absolutely miserable life ridden with disease…

      • Heather

        Let me guess, I described you to a T in that post? Go figure….

      • John

        No worries heather, hell is not real, it is a concept invented by the organized church to control the masses with guilt and fear…

        In the end you are right, people rather believe some conspiracy nut or junk science and expose their children to more danger then the vaccines pose. Once their children mortality rate is as high as in Somalia and Bangladesh they have nobody but them self to blame… but wanna bet if that happens they will point to the government and cry its the governments fault for not protecting their children…

      • DaveH

        No Heather, it will be because you have voted for Government to Force your uninformed choices on other people, choices which may well result in the disability or death of their children.
        If we don’t have the Freedom to choose what goes into our own bodies, then we have NO Freedom. And it’s because creepy self-righteous people like Heather want to Force their choices on us.

      • DaveH

        And then the Liberal John chimes in with a typical Liberal fabricated fact — “In the end you are right, people rather believe some conspiracy nut or junk science and expose their children to more danger then the vaccines pose”.
        So then John, you can cite a double-blind study to prove that vaccines are indeed effective?

      • John

        Ohh and yes before I forget, just ignore DaveH, Dave believes everything that is written on the internet especially if it is against the government or established procedures…..He will bombard you with links from a hundred websites without even knowing what they say…. he is good for one thing only, entertainment.

      • Heather

        John, I don’t believe in organized religion, so the Heaven/Hell debate is lost on me. Trust me its easy to ignore someone that is trying to infringe on my right to free speech. If only he knew that I live in an urban setting, have rain barrels, compost bins, grow my own organic vegetables, and raise my own small livestock for food. The part about that which would p!$$ him off though is that I don’t do it because I just want organic stuff in my body or I want to save the planet, It is because groceries cost too much to eat the healthy foods my family likes.

      • DaveH

        As usual, the Liberal John can only offer personal attacks in lieu of facts.

      • independent thinker

        Well John at least DaveH will post links and sources. I don’t always agree with the revelance of some of his links but he gets an “A” for effort. Others like you and Flashy do not provide links for your claims revelant or not.

    • DaveH

      Heather says — “The mortality rate of being vaccinated against these diseases is significantly less than if you actually get the disease”.
      You know this how, Heather? Perhaps you can provide us with some evidence for that fabricated fact?
      Heather says — “I think you all should go to prison the second your kids get diseases”.
      Spoken like a true Big Government Loving Progressive.
      So Heather, can we then send you to prison for advocating the force of Government to vaccinate children who then suffer the ill effects of their vaccinations?
      http://www.healthfreedomusa.org/?p=5729

      • DaveH

        More on Polio vaccinations:
        http://www.healthfreedomusa.org/?p=542

      • Chester

        To David, and all of you opposing vaccines because they “might” make your child sick, I hope your child never has to live through chicken pox or measles or be exposed to polio, whether they get it themselves or they get to watch a friend go from a happy, active child to a bedridden paralytic, incapable of caring for themselves. Can you imagine not being able to get up and move around, not only because your arms and legs don’t work right, but also because your chest muscles and diaphragm no longer work, confining you to an iron lung, or some other respiratory aid. I have had most of what used to be normal childhood diseases, and have lost friends to polio, so I would wish all that on no other child or parent. Granted, occasionally a child will have a bad reaction to a vaccine, but for the nation as a whole, a child now and then is far better than thousands each year.

      • Karolyn

        David – I lived through measles, chickenpox and anything else I could get when I was a kid. My body was allowed to experience illness and fight it off naturally, thus building my immune system. I seriously doubt that anybody would get polio today unless they live in a third world country.

      • Karolyn

        Actually, the above was meant for Chester.

      • Heather

        Oh, and Dave, thanks to another poster I have a quote for you, If you want to look at the website scroll down, I didn’t copy it, but did look at it

        At the height of the polio epidemic in 1952, nearly 60,000 cases with more than 3,000 deaths were reported in the United States alone. However, with widespread vaccination, wild-type polio, or polio occurring through natural infection, was eliminated from the United States by 1979 and the Western hemisphere by 1991.

        Can you tell me how many have died from getting vaccinated? In one year alone? Since 1952?

      • DaveH
      • DaveH

        Graph of Poliomyelitis cases in the US:
        http://www.harpub.co.cc/pol_all.htm

      • DaveH

        Odd isn’t it that in 1954 — “Reward of $30,000 offered to anyone who proves polio vaccine not a fraud.Not one person was able to claim the reward”. And then again in 1964. Again no takers.

      • Heather

        And that is just a lot of facts put together in a chronological list, that has no quantifying data, linked to the study or not, on how many cases of death were caused by the polio vaccination. And if you look at the facts put in there, there are many more that died from smallpox than from the vaccinations alone, except in one case which was in the 1500′s where a LIVE sample was rubbed onto an open sore.

      • Heather

        And that is just a lot of facts put together in a chronological list, that has no quantifying data, linked to the study or not, on how many cases of death were caused by the polio vaccination. And if you look at the facts put in there, there are many more that died from smallpox than from the vaccinations alone, except in one case which was in the 1500′s where a LIVE sample was rubbed onto an open sore. And your polio facts say nothing about the negative effects of the vaccinations, just about the good that the salk and sabin vaccinations did for us, btw

      • DaveH

        Heather,
        You really need to understand the concepts of causal and coincidental.
        For instance, I read a story decades ago about a certain province in China that had a very high incidence of Cancer. That province also had a very high consumption of chicken. So the author concluded that chicken caused cancer, when in fact the two occurrences were strictly coincidental.
        As you can see from the chart that I linked to, the incidence of Polio muddled along for several decades and spiked at the same time that the Salk vaccine was being widely used.
        Was the vaccine causing the increase? I don’t know, but neither can you prove that the vaccination caused the later decrease.

    • DaveH

      More on vaccines:
      http://www.healthfreedomusa.org/?cat=11&paged=4
      From the article:
      “Vaccines have never been tested in a placebo controlled, double blind study to show that they are effective in either preventing or treating any disease. Vaccine manufacturers and regulators hold the position that it would be “unethical” to deprive the test subjects of the benefits of vaccines even though such benefits have never been rigorously documented while vaccine dangers have been”.

      • Heather

        Whoa, Whoa Whoa Dave! First of all did you read my second post, or are you just choosing to read and respond only to what you feel needs responding to? I SAID IF YOU CAN SHOW ME A PARENT THAT CHOOSES NOT TO FOR PERSONAL REASONS ONLY AND THEN ISN”T OVERPROTECTIVE< THEN KUDOS TO THEM< I CAN RESPECT THAT. What part of that means I don't support personal choice? I want everyone to have their own choices, I want everyone to vote to allow us to keep them. I also want people to use those choices with responsibility. People that choose to do things because they think they are trendy, or because they just want to jump on the bandwagon don't follow through with the rest of the entire idea. They don't allow their kids to go get dirty, they make play dates with other kids in nice neighborhoods that have pristine homes and yards treated with chemicals and fertilizers so there are no bugs and all green pretty grasses and flowers. They use anti-bacterial soaps and hand sanitizers every 5 minutes. Those are the people I am talking about. Their kids aren't protected, and they don't allow nature to protect them. They are doing a great disservice to their children. Think about how most of this became a regular even government funded thing in the first place. Most poverty stricken families could not afford to get their children immunized so the government took over. People threw fits because they thought the non-immunized kids would spread disease, (which we know is not true if the other kid has been immunized) So through all of this mind changing of the trendies, it is ok to force poor impoverished kids to get vaccinated, but its not ok to force everyone? Thats pretty much bs. I don't think its ok to FORCE anyone to do anything, but I do think its ok to voice my opinion on the validity of their choices. I guess its too much to ask to be able to express my opinion now. Gee, you think I'm against supporting peoples choices, when your really against free speech, who's the hypocrit now?

      • http://gravatar.com/kglendenning1 kglendenning1

        Wrong! My partner monitors drug trials. Several of them have been vaccine studies. The paramaters of the vaccine studies involved the use of placebos and used a double-blind. You have no idea what you are talking about.

        If you don’t want to vaccinate your child, fine. But, I believe that if a parent refuses to take precautions to protect against a possible ailment, insurance companies should refuse coverage in the event that a preventable illness occurs. Millions of children are vaccinated in this country each year. Less than 100 have an adverse reaction. Choose how you want, but don’t put down people who choose to vaccinate their children.

      • DaveH

        kglendenning1 says — “Wrong! My partner monitors drug trials. Several of them have been vaccine studies. The paramaters of the vaccine studies involved the use of placebos and used a double-blind. You have no idea what you are talking about”.
        Cite your source, kglendenning1 .

        kglendenning1 says — “Less than 100 have an adverse reaction”.
        Cite your source, kglendenning1.

        kglendenning1 says — “Choose how you want, but don’t put down people who choose to vaccinate their children”.
        Show me, kglendenning1 , where I said any such thing. How do you expect people to find your comment credible when you can’t even represent what I have said truthfully?

      • DaveH

        Many complications are not reported, and also increases in the disease itself after vaccination programs should rightly be reported as “complications”:
        From the below article:
        “If we look at the experience of the USA, the overall incidence of acute hepatitis B since vaccination for it began has not diminished but has increased from 55 to 63 per 100000 between 1981 and 1987″.
        http://www.therealessentials.com/vaccination-princ-2.html

      • DaveH

        What part, Heather, means you don’t respect personal choice?
        Duh, did you or did you not say — “I think you all should go to prison the second your kids get diseases”.
        If that’s what you consider to be respect of personal choice, please don’t respect me.

      • Heather

        Your damn right. I think that irresponsible parents that don’t follow through with their personal choices to let a child self-vaccinate and act overprotective by not letting them get exposed to any germs until one day they end up diseased and die should go to jail. We allow everyone personal choices every day. Criminals choose to do things that are illegal and end up in prison, we only temporarily restrain their personal choices and give them back, other than guns and only if it is a felony, to do what they want. How is money from a gas station till or possession of paraphernalia worse than making choices for the welfare of a kid and screwing it up to the point of death? Making the choice to not vaccinate is fine, but making the choice to not follow through with the choice until your child is 18 should be considered child abuse. You know the risks associated with not vaccinating, you know how to let them self-vaccinate, but you safeguard them from every speck of dust dirt and grime? How is that not at the least neglect?

      • DaveH

        Ah yes, and the Liberals try to convince us that they’re the kinder gentler class. Excuse me while I puke.

        Heather says “Your damn right. I think that irresponsible parents that don’t follow through with their personal choices to let a child self-vaccinate and act overprotective by not letting them get exposed to any germs until one day they end up diseased and die should go to jail”.
        Let a child self-vaccinate? You mean like when one of you pushy controlling Liberals lay your propaganda on a mentally helpless child? Sure Heather, some choice. You Progressives can rationalize anything, can’t you?

        Heather says “How is money from a gas station till or possession of paraphernalia worse than making choices for the welfare of a kid and screwing it up to the point of death?”.
        You are presuming to do that exact same thing, Heather, but you’re apparently too ignorant to see the contradiction in your statement.

        You see, Folks, we have witnessed the thinking (or non-thinking) of two violent Liberals on this board. This is exactly why we need to work hard to get our Freedom back. Don’t think the Leaders are any more intelligent than Heather or John, or any less violent if they want their way.

      • http://gravatar.com/katrael59ganaiden katrael59ganaiden

        DaveH, Amen

      • Heather

        Ok, Dave, simple yes or no question. No long winded beating around the bush answer wanted or required. Do you or do you not think that it is ok for a parent to refuse vaccinations, then allow that child to grow up a playstation feinding, hand sanitizing, indoor pet?

      • stacy h

        We aren’t trendy, I just am aware of my family’s history of vaccination reactions. I also am aware that the ‘less than 100′ that k-whatever posted is completely bogus. All you have to do is look at VAERS. Last year by May-ish, if I remember correctly there were something like less than 300 cases of measles and no deaths from it; there were close to 900 cases of adverse reactions to the MMR and 3 deaths from it. Apologies for lack of source at this time.
        I do agree with Heather, that for parents that are feeding their kids junk and over-sanitizing every surface they come into contact with, etc etc, maybe vaccinations are a better option for them. Regardless, it should be their choice. Just like everyone else. Also would like to comment on whomever stated insurance should decline coverage for a preventable disease- my guess is that cost incurred from that is far less than covering one of those adverse, permanently life changing reactions.
        March 8th would have been my friend’s daughter’s 7th birthday. March 17th is the 6th anniversary of her MMR reaction. RIP, Erica.

      • DaveH

        It’s none of your business, Heather, how other families choose to live.

      • DaveH

        And Heather, having creepy control freaks like yourself running our lives will not make us live any longer — it will just seem that way.

      • Heather

        Thats what I thought Dave. You can’t answer one simple yes or no question, you won’t even stand behind your own convictions. Either you say no it’s not ok, and end up agreeing with me, or you say yes it is ok and you become the child killer. Who’s the violent one now? Not me, I haven’t ever been violent, I said parents should go to jail for neglecting their children after making a choice. I said people should be able to choose and if they don’t follow through with their decisions then they should go to jail. Parents make their own choices every day, most of them good, some of them bad. Some of them, that cause unnecessary risk or harm to the child, are dealt with in our court system. I’m saying that should continue, if and when the parenting becomes dangerous. The simple decision to not get them vaccinated is not a danger in itself, I understand why, I know the reasons. Not necessarily my choice, but I get it. Where the danger comes in is after that decision has been made, with daily parenting.

        Oh, whomever is posting under my name, even if it is yours as well, please adjust it, you really don’t want to be me on this board, I promise. Devil’s Advocate doesn’t sit well with people like Dave that don’t have the cahones to stand up for their own convictions and choose to dissect every word you write without putting it into context, nor even understand that I want the same things he does, I just want there to be consequences if you choose to ignore all that the decision involves.

      • http://gravatar.com/katrael59ganaiden katrael59ganaiden

        Heather, if they ever pass legislation that will do what you’re talking about, you’d better hope that you are perfect in executing you decisions or you’ll be one of those who end up in jail. In fact, there wouldn’t be anybody who was on the outside. Oh well, like one of the patients I knew when I worked at the state hospital said, “hey man, I get three hots and a cot.” Who’ll be left to do anything?

      • DaveH

        Cajones? Just as I thought, another Flashman personality probably.
        Heather (Flashman?) says “Do you or do you not think that it is ok for a parent to refuse vaccinations, then allow that child to grow up a playstation feinding, hand sanitizing, indoor pet?”.
        As I said earlier, I think it’s none of your business how other families choose to live.
        You, of all people, certainly don’t have the knowledge to make those choices for them.
        I mean, imagine a person so ignorant as to not know that every time we breathe we breathe in abiotic and biotic pathogens. You can wash your hands all day long, and you will still breathe in pathogens, not to mention those that you bump up against inevitably in everyday life. Whether you hand-sanitize or play in the mud your immune system is exposed to danger every day. In fact, playing in the mud is even more likely to subject you to some deadly antibiotic-resistant life-form such as MRSA.
        All anybody can do is eat healthy, learn to cope with the stress of everyday life, and especially work to stop Ignorant Progressives who want to run our lives as if controlling our choices somehow makes them less Ignorant.

      • Heather

        Well, thank you Dave for once again not standing behind your convictions and refusing to answer. Now if it wasn’t clear to anyone, Dave is a spineless shell of a man that basically thinks that it is none of anybody’s business if children get neglected by their families because he thinks it will infringe on his ability to have a personal choice. I’m assuming, in the way he chooses to avoid questions and refuses to choose an answer that he thinks the next time I treat a child that has been abused in the ER, I shouldn’t call social services. I should look past the bleeding orifices, the cigarette burns, the broken limbs, and the multiple bruises in different stages of healing, because it is none of my business. You are wrong my friend. Have you ever watched a 2 year old die because of what their parents did to them? I doubt it. I have. I watched a little boy die because his parents made bad decisions. He was badly beaten, covered in bruises and cigarette burns and bleeding internally from the beatings and rapes. This child was exempted from immunizations due to religious reasons. I don’t think that these parents should have gone to jail because of not immunizing their child, I think that they should be in prison for their other decisions. After the child was in the Hospital, due to him never being allowed out of his home, he was very susceptible to all the germs in the hospital. Him not being immunized actually ended up saving this poor soul from living through more pain. He did contract a disease in the four days that were left of his poor life and his extended family refused treatment because of religious reasons. I can’t say for sure whether surgery, blood, antibiotics, and antivirals would have saved him, I can’t say if we saved him he would have ended up in a better place with his extended family, but I can say we could have at least had a fighting chance. His parents are in prison, on a life without parole sentence, where they belong. So for you to say it is none of my business, it is my business, when those children come to me to be treated and I have to make the decision to call social services or not. You wanting complete apathy on everyone’s part is expecting people to ignore the pain and suffering of children. Human beings aren’t made that way. It is not psychologically possible for someone in the human race. Apathy breeds criminals. You are the worst kind of human being to be so callous towards others pain and suffering just to advance your own agenda. Yes, give people choices, but if they take those choices to extremes and endanger others or themselves, give them rehabilitation in either a psychiatric hospital or send them to prison depending on the crime. You my friend, have nothing else to say to me that I will find intelligent enough to respond to.

      • http://gravatar.com/katrael59ganaiden katrael59ganaiden

        Heather, your feelings are hurt because you know that DaveH is right. You can’t say that he doesn’t care for his loved ones, he just said it’s none of your business what he does. Are you going to have him locked up before the fact. Let’s see, can we say “pre crime division”? Nothing has happened yet. You can’t do anything about child abuse until it happens. That’s the real point.

      • Heather

        K, my feelings are not hurt by any means, I do not believe Dave is understanding my point, and maybe you are mis-understanding it as well. When did I ever say to convict them before the crime? If they are irresponsible, no one will know until something happens, people are very good at hiding things, that’s just human nature. If they screw up, and end up with a problem, then yes, they are busted and deserve to be punished for their bad choices. I think that Dave will not stand behind his convictions because he can’t go one way or the other without looking bad at this point. Either he agrees with me, whom he has been blasting since the minute I posted on here, or he is apathetic to child abuse. He won’t answer because I truly believe he is not apathetic, but he would have to back down from an argument he did not have the sense to understand what it was about it the first place…

      • http://gravatar.com/katrael59ganaiden katrael59ganaiden

        Heather, sometimes we resort to going to extremes to make a point. I haven’t read all of Dave H’s replies to your comments. And I’m not sure that he doesn’t understand; there are several issues of concern with this subject. The legal powers of the government and the welfare of the people. I agree with Dave H that the government has no business dictating to the people how to raise their children and I agree that there is no real proof that what the government is forcing people to accept really works. Now is there a way for people to gain immunity from a disease causing pathogen without resorting to poisonous concoctions being injected into the body that bypasses the bodies own immune system? Yes there is. The scientific community knows this but for some reason won’t resort to using it. The person only needs to be exposed to the pathogen or a form of it and the body does the rest. Injections are dangerous and destructive. Be well and prosper Heather.

      • http://gravatar.com/katrael59ganaiden katrael59ganaiden

        Yeah, and people who sneeze. Watch out for those virus bombs.

    • Alexandria Bryant

      I certainly am not one of those over protective parents you talk of. My son is unvaccinated and I allow him to get out in the mud, my house is not a sanitized room, and he has many friends he plays with. Vaccines are dangerous and I will not be fear mongered into putting that poison into my sons body. I don’t doubt for one moment my decision to not vaccinate my son.

      • Heather

        Alexandria, you are one of the very few I have seen, and I respect your decision to not only make that decision, but to follow through with the entirety of what it means. You child will be stronger and healthier in the long run than most vaccinated and non-vaccinated children because you are choosing to do it the right way.

      • http://gravatar.com/katrael59ganaiden katrael59ganaiden

        Alexandria Bryant, good for you. I read somewhere that dirt can contain a bacteria that enters the body and stimulates the production of melatonin and serotonin and other things good for the body. Maybe that’s one of the reasons gardeners like to garden? They get dirty. It’s good that you let your children play in the mud, Hey Heather at least we agree on one thing, health, real health counts. Be well and prosper.

    • Bandarji

      Heather, I was alive when polio was around. It was a rare and strange disease. Diseases have an arc. Polio may have died of itself, like the plague and other did. These vaccines are destroying the health of the populace. Gardasil is ridiculous. It is faint protection and has had extreme cases of side effect. Go on believing that a vaccine or a pill can take the place of healthy lifestyle and food and hygiene.

      • http://gravatar.com/katrael59ganaiden katrael59ganaiden

        Bandarji, you’re right about the diseases running their course and dying out on their own. People start getting vaccinated after the damage has already been done and those who were going to die from it had already dead then people felt like the vaccines did the job at stopping the disease and no-one has yet answered why half the population of Europe died from the plague while the other half didn’t and they didn’t even have vaccines back then. What kept the other half from dying?
        We don’t need vaccines.

    • http://gravatar.com/katrael59ganaiden katrael59ganaiden

      You can not prove your statement Heather, that the mortality rate is lower due to vaccines. You can quote statistics until you’re blue in the face but those statistics don’t prove that better health isn’t the reason for a lowered mortality rate or that the disease didn’t just run it’s course in the population. Answer this Heather: if one half of the population of Europe died from the plaque then why, without vaccinations, didn’t the other half die from it?
      Get healthy and make your kids healthy and you won’t have to make them sick by pumping poisons into their little bodies.

      • Heather

        Dave, my reply actuallly adresses one of your posts as well

        katrael59ganaiden says:
        February 28, 2012 at 11:20 am
        You can not prove your statement Heather, that the mortality rate is lower due to vaccines.

        Please re-read my statements. I said that the mortality rate of those who are vaccinated is significantly less than of those that get the disease. I suppose I must state this in another way to make you guys able to understand what I though was simple english. It means more people that are infected with the disease will die than will die as a result of being vaccinated.

        Better yet:
        If 10 people die due to getting a disease only
        2 will die due to getting the disease from a vaccination

        (Numbers are NOT accurate, don’t quote me on that, I know its not right, it’s an example to show simple english.)

      • Marten

        Right on, there are 3 kind of lies….Lies, damn Lies, and Statistics

    • http://gravatar.com/katrael59ganaiden katrael59ganaiden

      Heather, you still can’t prove why a person didn’t die whether it was the vaccine or they were just not going to die anyway. And if you can prove that two out of ten get sick or die from the vaccine while eight out of ten don’t appear to get sick ought to tell you just how toxic that stuff is. And by the way, it’s probably all of those healthy organic veggies you raise that are keeping you and yours from getting sick from vaccines. Good for you, keep up the good job. I applaud anybody who does something that actually makes sense whether I agree with everything they say or not.

      • Heather

        Kat, One, thanks for the kudos on the veggies, however I doubt it’s what’s keeping us healthy as I just started the garden two weeks ago, and all of our fruit trees look like they may give us fruit this year. They weren’t big enough last year, and I just started the garden thing this year. Hopefully we do good with it though!! Thanks!!

        As far as your comment on I can’t prove whether it was the vaccination that killed them or if they were just going to die anyways. Really? Either they contracted the disease from the vaccination or not. If they had it before the vaccination, they wouldn’t give them the vaccination, its useless at that point. You can either treat the symptoms and hope you body builds an immunity and gets better or plan to dig a 6ft hole. That makes about as much sense as if they were in a car wreck and you can’t prove it was the wreck that killed them. I’m not arguing that people have bad reactions to the vaccines at all, just that flighty parents should have enough common sense to not do this.

        Please read all of my posts before you start throwing numbers up, I said they were for example, not real numbers. And your argument there makes sense the other way around just as much as it does the way you meant it. I read it wrong the first time and asked why you were arguing my point for me??? LOL

    • http://boblivingstonpl.wordpress.com Bob Livingston
    • May

      Heather, your ignorance is breathtaking! What about my child who WAS vaccinated and got Kawasaki from Hepatitis B? Pick up a Medical Journal or two and READ! There is way to much money and special interests involved! Ever heard Bill Gates say, “We depopulate by vaccinating”. WAKE UP Heather!

      • Heather

        May, if you have a child that had Kawasaki’s then you of all people should know that there are more theories as to where it comes from than there are ways it can manifest itself. Sometimes it can be as simple as a child having a fever for more than 4 days and no other symptoms therefore Dr.’s that don’t know any better diagnose it as such. There needs to be at LEAST 4 symptoms in addition to the fever to qualify it as being Kawasaki’s. It is becoming more common, possibly due to mis-diagnosis, however there is no proven reason for it. Oh and by the way, if you would read all of my posts you would figure out that other than my first post, which was made after an argument here in the ER, that I am not opposed to much, just the irresponsibility of flighty parents. Btw, emergency medicine for 12 years…

    • Heather

      Letting parents file philosophical objections would mean that parents COULD pick and choose the shots their children receive. Right now if you live in a state with a only religious or medical exemptions, combined with a vaccine registry system, that means that it’s all or none lest you prove that you’re not really allergic or religiously opposed.

  • Gary Kolb

    I think kids ingest much more toxins than are in these vaccines. As a doctor who has treated ertussis (whooping cough), I will continue to reccommend them for my patients and my grandchildren.

    • FreedomFighter

      You may want to research more, since the government relieved Big Pharma from liability the quality of the vaccines has degraded to the point of them being poisons.

      Doctors should never reccommend poisons.

      Laus Deo
      Semper Fi

      • http://explorer Roger Bryant

        If they can’t abort em they poison em!

    • DaveH

      You’re a doctor and that’s the best defense you can muster, Gary? Pretty weak in my opinion.

      • DaveH

        Here is an article from a Real Doctor, that is — one who actually is concerned enough about peoples’ health that she’s willing to buck the status quo:
        http://www.healthfreedomusa.org/docs/Syringe_of_death.pdf

      • Christin

        Dave H,

        Wow, I just read the article, “Speaking Truth About Vaccines – The Syringe of Death” in the site you posted… just full of evil intentions.
        The Four Hard Cold Facts about vaccines and the secretive BARDA – Biodefense and Pandemic Vaccine and Drug Development Act… who can FORCE Vaccinations on the masses… totally above the law.

        Hope more of you will take a look at this site.

    • http://gravatar.com/katrael59ganaiden katrael59ganaiden

      Gary Kolb, I feel sorry for your children and grandchildren.

    • TomP

      In 1993, there was a pertussis out break in Cincinnati. After it was all over they found that 83% of those affected had previously been vaccinated. “Very effective” NOT.

    • Mary Mohanan

      Gary, then why don’t you start recommending testing for vitamin D deficiencies and getting optimum levels of D3? There would be much fewer sicknesses.

    • Marten

      Hy Gary, for me M D means (Medicine Dispenser) and have a good day….

  • Karolyn

    Bravo! I just wanted to note that hepatitis B is not only sexually transmitted but is also transmitted via blood, as is hepatitis C.

    • http://gravatar.com/katrael59ganaiden katrael59ganaiden

      So Karolyn, stop drinking blood.

  • s c

    It’s strange that this topic would show up. Yesterday, I was taking care of a minor medical matter when a woman brought her daughter into the clinic. She wanted to see that her daughter got another round of that ‘wonderful’ Gardasil.
    More power to those who want no part of enforced vaccinations. Sadly, it won’t do anything to help parents who are so brainwashed (braindead?) that pleasing MDs is their main goal in life.
    I didn’t hang around to see if the product was ‘free’ or if it took a fee to leave post treatment. Some parents, I would argue, should go through much counseling and soul-searching before they have children. Children should be protected, and not used as guinea pigs for Big Brotherish, touchy-feely or quasi-scientific experiments.
    I was sorely tempted to ask that mother if she thought her daughter would also be needing abortion ‘counseling’ via Planned NonParenthood before she got out of high school.
    Eugenics marches on and on and on, America.

    • SGT O.

      Gardasil has been found to make kids sterile after so long, a overseas research company in europe found this out. so if the Govt is interested in controling the population in a backdoor way, this is it !

      • May

        I was also told by a friend of mine that they pressure her to get the vaccine for her son everytime she goes to the office. What does that tell you?

    • http://gravatar.com/katrael59ganaiden katrael59ganaiden

      s c, I love your comment. Planned non-parenthood is a good one. And the idea young women should have abortion counseling is another good one. I assume you weren’t serious about these things so much as you were trying to point out the absurdity of this situation? Perhaps we ought to have our children consider these options: There is one guaranteed form of conception control…noassatall. Or use a better form of birth control pill…an aspirin between the knees.
      What the government should be supporting but not forcing is a real knowledge of health and how healthy people don’t get sick.

    • Marten

      Good post S C, Remind’s me Voltaire ”Doctors prescribe medicine of which they know little,to cure diseases of which they know less, in Human Beings of which they know NOTHING”

  • http://gravatar.com/revnowwhilewecan RevNowWhileWeCan

    Great info Catherine. I carpool with a friend who just had a baby a few months ago. I’ve been telling him of the possilbe great harms that these vaccinations can pose. On the ride in, I like to enlighten him on the horrors of our great world and he mostly thinks I’m a conspiracy nut and we laugh about it. (versus crying) I will e-mail this to him because I don’t like scaring my friend and I ask him not to believe in what I say but to do a little research for himself and this will help, thanks. As for your last question, ” When will they realize you can’t poison a body into wellness”? I suspect it will be when those same policy makers realize that you can’t use war to bring about peace. :)

    • Ted Crawford

      Or, RevNowWhileWeCan, TAX their way out of fiscal irresponsibility, or spend their way out of economic disasters, or improving peoples lot by rewarding irresponsibility, ETC.

    • DaveH

      Rev,
      Ask your friend to read this book:
      http://mises.org/store/Real-Lincoln-The-P172.aspx

      If that doesn’t awaken him to the amount of propaganda we’ve all endured from Big Government, nothing will.

      • http://gravatar.com/wandamurline wandamurline

        It’s all about the money. How many kids are going to have ADD or ADH or irreversible brain issues before someone steps up and says that these vaccines are bad. They are given to babies who do not even have an up and running immune system. Autism and ADD and ADH are up in numbers since the start of shooting a needle in your child. And the flu vaccines are not much better….especially since they have combined the swine flu shot into your yearly dose. Am 64 years old … I don’t get flu shots…..tell my doctor that I have never had the flu so why take a stupid shot….I refuse them and if you are a healthy adult, you should also.

      • Christin

        wandamurline,

        I suspect that the huge number of vaccines and the aluminum and mercury toxins that our babies and toddlers receive has caused ADD, ADHD, and Autism… The infants’ bodies and brains are not yet ready for such drugs to be pumped into their bodies. If they only the doctors could wait until children were about 5 and their bodies could handle it without destroying the infants chance to be normal.

        I wish I knew that when my 12 and 10 year old were born. I didn’t know I could refuse them. When I took my oldest to his 18 month (I think it was) doctor appointment the nurse told me I had missed his shots for his 15th month appointment and I thought, “Oh, my God.” and she just said’ it’s okay’… and I began to wonder how important they really were. Unfortunately, my older son has ADHD symptoms. My other son who is only 21 months younger had EVEN MORE shots than he did… and both my sons had MANY MORE shots than I EVER DID.

        Somethings wrong with that since we have concurred many illnesses in America.

        The only shot my boys had left to take was ‘Tetanus’ at age 15 going into 9th grade at the high school, BUT now the school is requesting them at 12 years old going into 7th grade and I will probably refuse it… because

        I have learned that GMO corn seeds from Monsanto have a foreign bacteria [Bacillus Thuringiensis or B+ as it is known] (or other material put into the DNA of a given seed to change it’s traits) that with a tetanus shot makes you infertile (sterile) or lose a pregnancy. I always wondered how the GMO (Genetically Modified Organisms) worked.
        To learn more go to:
        http://www.prisonplanet.com/bill-gates-and-neo-eugenics-vaccines-to-reduce-population.html

        Now, Catherine Frompovich…
        “When will they realize they can’t poison a body into wellness?”

        ANSWER: I’m sure they ‘got it’ and are deliberately harming us to weaken the population and keep us enslaved to doctors and Big Pharma drugs… what a money making racket for the Ruling Elites… and a way to eliminate us sooner rather than later… those pesky useless grandmas/pas, how dare they live so long and use up Social Security that could go to foreign people and dictator payoffs.

        Thank you for writing the informative article… hope expecting parents of those with infants read your article… it is not to late for your baby.

      • Christin

        DaveH,

        Did you click on the doctor’s name… Russel Blaylock M.D…. in Cathrine Frompovich’s article above???

        Wow, it leads to an excellent article on the neurological affects of aluminum found in the vaccines on children’s and adults’ brains.

        “Children get doses 46 times higher than those considered safe by the gov agencies.”
        “Giving perfectly healthy children a vaccine that will cause their brains to develop abnormally, and they will essentially be neurologically RUINED for the REST of their lives.”

        “The evidence of neurological disorders like Alzheimer’s, ALS, Parkinson’s, and multiple sclerosis is EXPLODING, says Dr. Blaylock, and it’s not due to the aging population. It’s due to toxins, like aluminum, in vaccines and NO ONE is telling the TRUTH.”

        ‘There is also powerful evidence that aluminum worsens the effects of other toxins such as” pesticides, herbicides, mercury, and fluoride.”

        WOW
        “Soft kill”

      • ArkansasRebel

        Wandamurline, your concerns appear to be well founded. I taught a class in which I became aquainted with a nurse from South Africa. She had been hired to come to the U.S. to teach nursing. She informed me that South Africa has wiped out autism by eliminating the mercury & aluminum from vaccines.

      • Ellen

        Vaccines hurt children, but they hurt others too. My daughter had to have 14 vaccines to do charity work in Africa last summer. She became gluten intolerant. Doctors didn’t diagnose this and, instead, kept giving her antibiotics for the ongoing sinus and ear infections from constant congestion. She found out 4 months later from a friend. That friend had gone to a different part of Africa the previous year and returned with the same problem (along with milk allergy) and experienced 6 months of the doctor never diagnosing it. She finally developed a systemic yeast infection from the antibiotics. Her anti-fungal medicine caused more problems. She was finally diagnosed by a nutritionist. After talking to a few other friends who also traveled to Africa over the past 2 years (all to different regions), all had developed gluten and dairy allergies. Vaccines aren’t safe. The FDA can pretend and we can believe their stories even as we watch our children being damaged. What explanation do they have for the enormous rise in autism and ADD? None. I have a child with ADD and, if I had it to do over, I wouldn’t let my children get most of the vaccines they were given.

      • http://gravatar.com/katrael59ganaiden katrael59ganaiden

        Ellen, it’s a shame that we sometimes have to get sick before we get wise. At least some of us learn to ask the right questions of the right people.

      • http://gravatar.com/revnowwhilewecan RevNowWhileWeCan

        Got it Dave. Thanks.

    • John

      Yay, I can’t wait for polio, or the any of the other plaques of humanity to ravage this country again… People that are irresponsible enough not to immunize their children play right into the hands of the people that want to reduce the overall population in this country.
      Don’t get me wrong, I am all for personal choice and freedom, but there has to be sanity behind it. Lets give everyone the option to opt out but with the caveat that THEY will be tried for manslaughter or first degree murder should the child either die off any disease that could have been prevented. If everyone opt out, the overall immune system of the new generations will be at the same level as Somalia, Bangladesh or any other 3rd world country where millions of children die each years of infections that the western world has effectively fought and thought to be close to eradication. Once the future generation in the US are maimed and dying infectious viruses again it will be the parents who should end up and pay the price.. Once parents will be held RESPONSIBLE for their children’s lifers and have to pay with their own, people will think twice before they make decisions solely bases on conspiracy theories and junk science.

      • Roy

        Ok…Let’s talk about Polio. Ten kids died unnecessarily every year from the Sabin vaccine. Since 1960 all children were given Sabin oral modified live vaccine, keeping the disease active and killing children. The “Salk” vaccine is killed virus and harmless. The Salk vaccine was good enough to totally eliminate the disease when it was rampant, yet they forced us to take the dangerous Sabin vaccine that kills ten children each year. It’s strange that now that Jonas Salk has died they have switched back to his vaccine. People who take the Sabin vaccine CAN BECOME CONTAGIOUS and infect others with modified virus or even actual live POLIO. So we are ALL exposed to the vaccine even if we reject the needle.

      • James

        All in favor of banishing John jto Mars, say “aye”.

      • SGT O.

        let me tell you what the swine flu shot did to us in the 70′s when the used my whole infantry BN as test subjects. we were not told nothing about the shot , just odered us to take it and the order came from the pentagon. this shot put our whole BN into a non-combat mode since we could not even get out of bed, 103 – 105 temp, sweats, shaking, vomiting, temp lose of eye sight. none of us could stand, we had to crawl to the clinic, we lost some troops to heart failure, brain swelling, and a few of organ shutdown. so if you think these mandatory shots are good, your freaking stupid and need to take the anthrax shot which is even worse, when i was in Korea, they made the Govt employees that are in emergency positions take that shot,that will shut down your organs, make you go blind, have strokes, lungs collapse, bleed from your eyes, ears and internal bleeding, so dont tell be this BS about how good the shots are. i have seen what these shots do and i do not trust anyone that is pro shots ! ! this is from a soldier that has seen first hand the results of Govt mandated shots, Bull HOCKEY to you ! (The blind liberals leading the blind liberals)

      • Doug

        Gee John are you a doctor or do you work for the 2nd largest crime unit beside the US. govt? First of 10 years before the polio vaccine there was a cure a very inexpensive cure which is still there today for many diseases. So do you know what it is??????? It’s Vitamin C or Ascorbic Acid in large dose such as 50 grams twice a day given to you intravenously. Try doing some real reading I suggest you read a book by a Doctor Levy called Primal Panacea you might actually learn something other then being a parrot for the two biggest crime syndicates in the world our Govt. and big Pharmy!

      • http://gravatar.com/katrael59ganaiden katrael59ganaiden

        John, there is no proof that vaccines actually work. The absence of a disease only means that it has run it’s course. Healthy people don’t get sick and this may be another reason why it appears that vaccines work. Our population benefited from the agricultural revolution and the increased health benefits it brought to us. Example: lifespan of a woman in 1850 = 35 years, l don’t have the exact number for now but its close to 80 years. Vaccines didn’t do this it was better nutrition. Shooting aluminum compounds into your body with a needle is counter productive to creating health and this especially holds true for those who are children.
        Another important point here: since when is the government a better judge of what’s good for our children? They don’t even know how to do a relatively simple thing like run a country let alone a more complicated thing like raising children. I was not a custodian for the governments children. They didn’t give birth to them and have no say so in how I raise them which includes having them vaccinated. If you believe in ruining your child’s health with a vaccination then have at it but don’t force me to ruin my child’s health with it.. If people are so concerned about a child’s welfare they should actively campaign against the millions of physician assisted, chemical (birth control pills) and device (IUD) caused abortions that occur every year in this country. A person becomes one at conception. Stop the murdering of innocent people.

      • May

        John, be careful BEFORE you judge so harshly. Why not look at what your government with the pharmaceutical companies are injecting in your child. First of all if you understand how the body works you would know that it is not normal or healthy for a substance to be injected into the bloodstream. Our bodies are able to fight off infection when a virus goes normally from our nasal cavity to our stomach. This process is bipassed by being injected straight into the immune system therefore causing in many a severe inflammatory response. We were suppposidly “responsible” as you say by vaccinating our child with the Hepatitis B vaccine. It is now shown in the New England Journal of Medicine that Kawasaki disease is caused by the Hepatitis B vaccine. Now our child lives with life threatening vasculitus that has ravaged his heart with aneurysms. He was hospitalized with a fever of 105 that last six weeks! Never again will a vaccine go near my child. Your argument about how we are effecting others is not valid. Everyday people from other countries who do not get vaccinated enter the U.S.

      • Ellen

        John, Polio is rampant in India even though they’ve been vaccinating against it for years. Last year, they finally said that maybe the vaccine isn’t strong enough and needs to be changed. Maybe the vaccine doesn’t actually work. How can we be expected to believe it works in the US, but not in India?

      • Mary Mohanan

        John, and who is responsible when children are harmed by vaccines??? NO ONE, that’s who. They are immune. they have made it that way. Can’t sue the pharm, can’t sue the government.

      • independant thinker

        First I am not defending the vaccines and especially not any particular vaccine. That said I believe the biggest problem is forcing (or trying to) the giving of vaccines earlier and earlier in life.

      • Walt

        John, I could probably accept your “responsibility approach”, if the same measures were applied to the drug companies and the poorly informed doctors that serve as the co-conspirators in the vaccine trade.

        If doctors and drug companies were “truly held to account” for injecting neurotoxins and other poisons, like mercury into humans, regardless of age, perhaps I might be persuaded by your argument.

        Lacking that, I would add that forcing one parent to approve that their child be injected with vaccines that are harmful, because other children, who have been vaccinated, “might” catch the desease that the
        vaccine they took was intended to prevent seems absurd.

      • DaveH

        Liberal hater and fear-monger outed.
        John says — “Lets give everyone the option to opt out but with the caveat that THEY will be tried for manslaughter or first degree murder should the child either die off any disease that could have been prevented”.
        How ’bout, John, we try you “for manslaughter or first degree murder” if the children die as a result of you Ignorant Forcing Liberals making them take vaccinations?

        John says — “If everyone opt out, the overall immune system of the new generations will be at the same level as Somalia, Bangladesh or any other 3rd world country where millions of children die each years of infections that the western world has effectively fought and thought to be close to eradication”.
        Was it eradication, John, or the normal course of a disease? Can you prove differently? Are we supposed to believe Government because it says so? Could the USSR citizens believe their Government? Can North Koreans believe their Government? Why would anybody think our Government Leaders are immune from self-serving actions?

        John says — “Once parents will be held RESPONSIBLE for their children’s lifers and have to pay with their own”.
        And the Liberals try to tell us they’re not violent.
        This, folks, is an example of what we can expect if we give these sick people any more power.

      • Heather

        Come on Dave, really? Try him for manslaughter because he want’s parents to act responsibly and follow through with their decisions by allowing them to have normal contact with thing to build up their immune systems? It not his choice to immunize your kids or not. Its your responsibility as a parent to make sure that they are allowed to get in the mud and the muck to build their immune systems. Why, by him saying you have responsibilities as a parent for more than the 30 seconds it takes to sign the paper that refuses the immunization, does that deserve a jail sentence. I’m not telling you to get them immunized or to refuse to get them immunized, I’m saying you have to be a responsible parent that will follow through with the entire idea of what it represents to be able to do it responsibly. That doesn’t negate your personal choices, that doesn’t negate your responsibilities either. So if I am giving people the CHOICE, why should I go to jail for THEIR choice? I’m saying if parents are irresponsible and don’t get their kids immunized then raise them to be indoor pets, then they should go to jail for knowing the choice they made and not following through with all that that choice means.

      • http://gravatar.com/katrael59ganaiden katrael59ganaiden

        This is madness! What about the thousands of deaths from auto accidents? What about the hundreds of thousands that die each year from physician and pharmacists error? People make bad uninformed decisions all of the time that leads to the death or others and that’s not counting the intentional murders. I have the obligation to make a judgement for my children if I believe that judgement will bring them a better life. Young children are not able to make those judgement calls and they rely on their parents and guardians to do it for them. Get your kids vaccinated if you think it’s right but, that decision is yours. Go to jail because you made a mistake or an error in judgement? It’s always a sad thing when children die: how can we minimize those deaths and yet I believe that you have to prove that a death was intentionally caused before you imprison somebody for making a decision.

      • DaveH

        Heather says — “I’m saying if parents are irresponsible and don’t get their kids immunized then raise them to be indoor pets, then they should go to jail for knowing the choice they made and not following through with all that that choice means”.
        Do you really believe what comes out of your mouth, Heather?
        You’re quite the double-speaker. When you pull that voting lever for somebody that forces their way on other people, you are no better than the guy who hires a contract killer. You are a Forcer, Heather, own up to it. When you threaten somebody with jail time for not doing things your way, that is only Choice in your ignorant mind.
        And what qualifies you to make my family’s choices, Heather? I have two four-year degrees (one in biology) and graduated with honors from both. Why do you presume to know what’s best for my family?
        If you weren’t so ignorant, instead of harassing those of us who love Freedom, you would do some reading and learn the Political reality behind most everything Big Government does, and it isn’t to help us. There are plenty of links to articles offered on this board to learn the truth. But Progressives don’t want truth — They just want their way.

      • http://gravatar.com/katrael59ganaiden katrael59ganaiden

        DaveH, I blasted the educational system and to be honest I believe that there are plenty of people who have degrees that are nothing more than puppets for the system. Not everybody with a degree is like that and my hat is off to anyone who goes on to seek the truth beyond their formal education. There is a lot of very vital and important information that gets taught in our educational system. I went to college but decided to not get my degree and most of what I was exposed to was very good. The problem comes when there are people with an agenda who desire to push something on others. The trick is to figure out what they are really doing and saying and why?

      • http://gravatar.com/revnowwhilewecan RevNowWhileWeCan

        Obviously your papers are in tact. :)

    • http://gravatar.com/eddiew1 eddiew1

      A bigger problem coming up is that many physicians will FIRE their patients, who refuse the vaccines!! It’s already happening here!
      I told my doctor about alternative therapies I was using, and he put me on notice and was angry about it. About 6 months later at an appointment I told him: Ask me no questions, and I’ll tell you no lies!. we laughed but I was serious! Later he asked me some questions, and I told him lies!!

    • Catherine J Frompovich

      Thank you for your kind comments. I think everyone should have a friend like you.

    • ChristyK

      I used the CDC website to research each disease and its danger and likelyhood of contraction and each vaccine and its side-effects and likelyhood of side-effects. I chose to only give the DTaP (because Pertussis was going around the state and Tetanus is almost 100% fatal) vaccine to my first son and he didn’t get it until he was 1 year old (which reduces the number of shots needed for immunity). He has been the healthiest child. His only real fever before starting school was caused by the vaccine.

      My 2nd son got 3 different vaccines (DTaP, HIB & ?) and started at 6 months because he had health problems that could be high risk if he got the diseases.

      If I had it to do over, I’d probably not do any vaccines, but for anyone on the fence over what to do about vaccines, this was a reasonable compromise. If you start vaccinating at a later age, they have a more mature immune system that can handle things better and you reduce the number of shots necesary which reduces the amount of neurotoxins (aluminum and mercury) that your child is exposed to.

      Most vaccines grow on a biological substrate that either comes from animals (frequently contaminated with virus/bacteria) or from aborted baby tissue (they always give it a scientific sounding name). This is another reason to avoid vaccines.

blog comments powered by Disqus
Bottom