John,
You should do a little research before giving a knee-jerk response:
http://www.nationalmortgagesettlement.com/about

Look at the list of Settlement Parties on the right-hand side.

No flashy, you are a dumbocrap shill, guess you haveto be brainless to believe that garbage so no since trying to argue with an idiot!

Can’t argue with the facts, so you denigrate the messenger. LOL

Flashy-And just where are your facts about Reagan and Bush (forget Bush-I agree, only because it was a democratic congress), anyways, where are your facts and please make sure you point out who was the majority in congress at the time.

I’m having a problem here when people cry “wolf” and it’s not the actual wolf yet.

Socialism is defined, and clear: it’s like what they had in Cuba, when they have in Venezuela. It’s when the government *owns* the means of production, and the workers in whole industries are paid by and employees of the government.

Socialism is not laws, like laws against fraud, or regulations like regulation against dumping oil in the storm sewer. Neither is it class action lawsuits were damaged parties sue for damages. Neither is it compensatory payments for fraudulent practices.

Again, “Socialism” is the public owernship of the means of productions, like state ownership of the oil industry, such as in Mexico or Venezuela. See?

I believe it is a fair bet I have read the Constitution a few more times than most on this site. second…who was it that referred to the Consitution as “that quaint document” ? Want to venture a guess on that? Here’s a hint…he is currently a hero to the Right.

“Quaint” doesn’t mean DEAD . . . thank God!

Wow now Fashy has declaired hmself to be smart than the rest of us, at least he has read the constitution more times than the rest of us, and h knows none of us. Now I know he is a left wing dumbocrap, now if that is attacking you maybe you shoul rethink your position on America, your knd is ruining it.

Hmm, here is an Idea, how about instead dissing Flashy the person, you spend as much energy on showing what and where he was wrong? And there are a few areas where he was not quite right, but instead attacking him like a bloodhound attacks his pray, attack and refute his points….if you can…

HALBHH-Do you mean like GM, the banks, Investing and picking losers like Solyndra, Fannie & Freddie:http://www.haaretz.com/print-edition/business/u-s-gov-t-takeover-of-mortgage-giants-good-for-israeli-banks-1.253403, Johnson & Johnson: http://digg.com/news/politics/us_gov_t_takeover_of_johnson_johnson_s_tylenol_making_factories , our food supply: http://journal.livingfood.us/2009/01/28/bad-seed-govtcorporate-control-of-us-food-supply/ , Shell’s Natural Gas: http://www.usnewslasvegas.com/business/govt-eyes-takeover-of-shell-cng-mother-daughter-stations/ need I go on???

Richard…you have an issue with anything i write? pick it apart. You can’t? Go back and sit down.

Flashy, I only have a problem with anything you say because you are stupid, and kee dragging up all the old dumbocrap taking points, do you work for media matters, just a shill for obama and soros?

Patty, I refer to bailing out a corporation as “crony capitalism”. It’s the correct term.

Using the right word is the difference between a lighting stoke and a lightning bug, as someone once said….

It’s a matter of whether you want to be convincing to just someone who already agrees, or convince someone who hasn’t yet decided.

That’s when using the right word (and Sarah Palin did when she called it “crony capitalism”) really is worth your effort.

Hal-Not sure what you were refering to, If you are the other Hal… that posted about socialism, I was refering to the gov’t take over of companies. Not the propping up of companies and crony capitalism.

Certainly we are not in a state of pure Socialism, halbhh.
But we are nowhere near Capitalism — Private Property, Enforcement of Contracts, and Voluntary Trade unfettered by Big Government.
We are much closer to Socialism than to Capitalism.
For those who would like to be enlightened:
http://mises.org/books/capitalism_kelly.pdf

Flashman,
Why should anybody torture themselves wading through your long diatribe when most of us know that you are a dishonest person? We have better things to do.

Here’s just one example of typical Flashman drivel. Flashman says — “I believe the multiplier effect is the highest of any economic sector creating 7 secondary jobs for each one created directly”.
Yeah, sure, Flashman, the “multiplier effect”. Anybody with half a brain can figure out that is Bull Dung. If the “multiplier effect” was valid, there would be no poor countries because any ignorant leaders can create make-work jobs with taxpayer money.
The thing that those promoting the “multiplier effect” usually leave out it that the Money used had to be Taken from somebody else who would have used their own money to create Real jobs, not Make-work jobs. Imagine the “multiplier effect” that would have had.
For those who would like to learn more:
http://mises.org/daily/1889

Well, when you have a situation where 50% of the people work for a living and the other 50% vote for a living, this is what you get.

Flashy-Because congress is the only ones who can spend the money according to the constitution you profess to know.

Patty, congress only has jurisdiction over federal government money and spending.
It does NOT have jurisdiction over settlements worked out by states.

John-True. I thought we were talking about Federal money. Where did the states get the money?

A Federal judge?

There is another way, KK, Government can “borrow” it from the Federal Reserve (Monetizing the Debt), in which case it is still “taken” from the rest of us but in a much more subtle fashion by making our cash savings and our fixed incomes worth less.

DaveH, wants everyone to get off of the merry-go-round, having realized that it don’t go anywhere but around and around.

The problem is,~ just about everyone is riding the merry- go- round in one form or another and has for so long, they fail too or refuse to knowledge that it’s not going anywhere . It’s really not so hard to do, you get the feel of wind in your face and the view is constantly changing about you as you ride your painted horsey with wings.

I understand the vision and how “rubber money” creates it.

I’d say it’s a philosophical argument and he’d say it’s a “reality” ~ and I think that we’d both be correct.

I tend to think we are actually discussing only the size of the circle and DaveH maintaining it needs to be a much larger circle, in which I would agree and welcome.

But we love to beat each other up discussion the somatic and syntax.

If we are not to ride the Merry-go-Round anymore, what will we do? Keep our wealth? Have more control over our lives? ~ perhaps, ~ but I fear a snake oil salesman would soon appear and we’d only find something else to buy.

There is a saying for that. “A FOOL and his money are soon departed”.

Sorry, John, but rising prices are not caused by anyone but buyers. You can’t blame appraisers, lenders, agents or anyone else involved in the transaction. The decision to pay a certain price for any asset rests solely with the buyer.

KKF…and if the money wasn’t easily had…would there have been such a huge demand driving up prices?

Remember the NINJA loans? 100% financed . No Income, No job, No Assets neede to be proven. Step right up, sign the docs saying your income was X , you had a job, and had Y in assets. 100% financing.

Though of course, it was all the buyers fault. uh huh … sure …

For those who truly want to understand what’s going on:
http://mises.org/books/capitalism_kelly.pdf

The site gives far too much credit to the 2 president”s involved. It shoud replace both “Bush” and “Obama” in this list with “Democratic Congress”.

To be fair, KK, the Republican Party is complicit in the ripoff of the American taxpayer. Witness the summertime Debt Ceiling increase where even half of the new Tea-Party candidates caved to the Progressives.
Between being the World’s Policemen and the futile Drug Wars, the Republicans are doing a pretty good job in aiding the demise of our country.

What did Bush do wrong?

DaveH…as i stated before…the shorter answer would be…what did he do right/ And that answer is easy…few if anything.

As usual, Flashman doesn’t answer my question, because even Flashman is smart enough to know it’s a trap.
Flashman, anybody with a brain knows that you are feeding at the trough. Only somebody who benefits from Big Government largess would constantly make a fool of themselves trying to support the Big Government ripoff of the people.

eddie you really got your panties all wadded up don’t you! Conservatives/Republicans are to blame…excuse me while I LMAO at you…goin’ for broke I see!

Yes, I think maybe Eddie has tired of being on probation and is testing his limits like a spoiled child does.

Stop making your house payments and put that money into new cars. Obama will make it all ok for you!

Ooops…sorry, I just saw where you paid down the principal so you could refinance. My error. Sorry.

Considering this mortgage crises has been going on for six years I doubt if many of the original homeowners are still in their homes. Most of those home have gone back to the banks years ago so those who are really hurting will get nothing.When the home prices start going up again the banks who took posession of your home will have a great inventory and once again make a killing. Even if the property has to torn down the bank will still own the land and property has value. So they will still make money back over time unlike the original homeowner who lost everything.

Nicely put Ryan.

Nice try. Not the truth though. First of all, the additional 0.1% fee is not for anything but to pay for the internal costs of the regulatory agencies monitoring mortgage abuse and reduce the title insurance FNMA and Freddie charge. Second, it’s a one time hit, not spread out over the life of the loan. Third, please point out what government monies are at stake. Fourth, please point out just what exactly the role of the WH was in the settlement reached by the State AGs involved.

@Flashy : you are hopelessly ignorant; do you ever read what you post? You said: “the additional 0.1% fee is not for anything but to pay for the internal costs of the regulatory agencies monitoring mortgage abuse and reduce the title insurance FNMA and Freddie charge.” So the .1% fee is…a tax. Used to pay for a federal program…that’s what taxes do. You can call it a ‘fee’, ‘fine’, ‘excise’ or whatever. But if it walks like a duck, has feathers, and quacks, it’s a duck.

You don’t know the difference between a fee and a tax do you? As well, the main point is..it’s a one time fee…not a life of the loan hit as was implied.

Flashy if you believe that I have a bridge I’ll sell you. You seem to refuse to believe that Obama will do ANYTHING to get re-elected just as YOU will do ANYTHING to prove YOU are a good stooge for him and his policies.

What was nice about Ryan’s misinformation? It was the banks who manipulated the homebuyers and thus should have to pay for their mistakes. The mortgage crises started arounf 2005 and it’s a solid 6 years later. The banks didn’t step up to the plate and correct the boondoogle so once again the government has to step in to get them motivated to do the right thing.

Flashy, who gives a damn what you call it, or what they say they’re going to do with it? If we’re giving more money to the federal government, it’s a mistake. We need to give them LESS. They need to spend LESS. They need to regulate and interfere LESS. Why does the government solution to every problem always come out the same – “Give us more of the people’s money and we’ll ‘fix it.’ “?

Americans can begin to drink more tea this November.

Flashy, So Obama had nothing to do with it huh??

I bet he will be quick to take all the credit when it comes around to election time.

He may. It’s an election year. You also criticizing those Republicans who voted against the stimulus, yet were crowding to get in the photo op when the project came to thier district?

Obama may take credit for it. In a way, he should. You think the banks would have done the settlement if there was no pressure from the fed side urging the states and the banks to come to an agreement?

Flashy-It was Bush who did the 700 billion bail out. https://goldsilver.com/article/Bush-team-Congress-negotiate-700B-bailout/

Although i don’t like Obama and a lot of his policies, i have to say I always laugh at some of the posts on here and other sides…
The US right will:
Call him childish names, and make up stories about him, quote him out of context, and wants others to believe that Obama is almighty…. That he personally is directing and supervising every little aspect of this country…even if it was in the works for the last 10 years…and he never heard about. Government largely runs by itself, the same people working under a republican administration are working unter a democrat administration…and most agencies care less who is at the helm
The posters believe that every decision the president makes is made in a total vacuum and that people like the military, congress, law enforcement, CIA,FBI and whatever have no input at all.
In their obsessive compulsive hate most don’t even realize how insane they sound. They point to actions and happenings that they say Obama could have stopped, without to even consider he had no knowledge about..
People are so consumed with their hate and dislike that common sense and reason are being thrown out. And the rest of the world looks at this and ponders how in hell the US ever made it out of the stone ages.

Patty..that was TARP I which gave the money away without any conditions. You are correct. The banks creid it wan’t enough. So TARP II was under President Obama, who did have conditions. Hard ones. And lo and behold…the banks hardly touched it.

So Flashy, Obama doubles down on a bad Bush policy. That would make him Bush III.

Well said John and we all come back to this Insane Asylum of doublespeak.

No Patti…obama said “fine, you need the cash, here it is. Now here are the conditions. No kore free money”. And the banks said “ummm, you know…we looked at everything again and we really don’t need the money “

Actually, the strings were too long on the money. Obama wanted to not only regulate but take stock ownership in their banks. “An AP story quotes community bankers who do not want the Treasury Department or other federal agencies to own stock in their banks. They know the regulatory takeover risk that will come with this program. Next thing you know, the government will order banks to make unaffordable mortgages available to low-income folks, or perhaps force business loans on the basis of race or gender.”
http://www.realclearmarkets.com/articles/2010/09/28/tarp_ii_banks_and_business_dont_want_it_98690.html

Flashy, you are too funny!! Why post a link to prove the point of what is most likely an anecdotal story. All you need to do is watch Europe…so much for socialism.

Even if the story is made up Flashy are you too stupid to understand the truth to the consequinces of the analogy??

If there was any truth to it … it’s just plain silliness and beyond any sort of recognizable rationale.

@Flashy: Here’s a link you’ll understand: compare Stalin’s USSR. Compare current day Greece. Compare current day France for how socialism ‘works’. If by ‘works’ you mean that it destroys exceptionalism and personal motivation to succeed, and that is your goal, then Flashy, you are correct; in your world, socialism ‘works’. However, in the world of this blog and its attendees, we are not looking for a device to demolish and sabotage success and handwork; on the contrary, we would like to have the government back off and out of our lives. Taking money from my hard earned income to support and enable sloth of those who either refuse to work or are poor at what they do, is no way to economic freedom.

You are completely without common sense.

Here is “silly”:
http://personalliberty.com/2012/01/25/your-choice-ron-paul-or-a-wheelbarrow/#comment-716115
PL’s system is acting up, so if the link doesn’t take you directly to my comment, just enter this in your browser’s find field — “Flashy has no credibility”. Then follow the thread.

Summary:
Flashman pretends to have great knowledge about long-distance shooting. His comment is full of ignorant mistakes that any Physics major and/or Geometer could easily spot. But as it turns out the comments weren’t even his. He Plagiarized from an obscure article on the web whose female researcher got her information — not from any real long-distance Snipers , but from some guys at a local gun club. I can only guess what was going on with those guys:
1) They were the all-too-common type of shooters who love to pretend they know things that they don’t really (kind of like Flashman). Or,
2) They were just pulling her chain purposely to get her goat.

Yes the Liberals should make a greater attempt to tame big government and they do a poor job of it. Yet here we have another Conservative blaming everything on Socialism without even a nod to the Capitalists who jerry rigged the mortgage fiasco. The Banks are Capitalists,the Mortgage companies are Capitalists, Realitors are Capitalists, quick selling flippers are Capitalists,Payday Loan companies where those homebuyers short on cash go to are Capitalists,Builders who overbuilt are Capitalists. When are Capitalists going to take responsibility for what they created,nurtured,made buckets of money off of and then dumped it into the laps of the consumers and then go begging for government bailouts. If you want Capitalism to work then tame the monster that you endorsed and allowed to flourish. The Conservative side is also as blind as Helen Keller

Like Beauty, a ‘recognizable rationale’ is in the eye of the beholder.

Flashy, there’s nothing in this story that is BS. It simply illustrates a fact about human nature that you liberals, and your penultimate colleagues the socialists, refuse to acknowledge. Given the choice between doing what they deem best for themselves, and doing what is best for others to their own detriment, they will most often choose themselves. This fact about human nature is what makes it so easy for politicians to buy votes with very tiny direct benefits to voters. Most of the voters can’t see past their own bank account to see the economic harm that government redistribution does to everyone that has to pay for it.

eddie, still have no clue do you? In your world a Crony-capitalist = capitalist…and you make it very clear that you are a socialist as in your undeniable effort to defend socialism.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fL6wbsGx9qw

I believe, November will be a rude awakening to many…. and at this point, it still can go either way.

Anybody hear about our lonely governor of Ohio pulled his support from Romney today and went over to Santorum? Also romney only beat R.Paul by a couple of hundred votes in Mass(?). hopefully it is good bye mitt!!

Whenever one class of people are given a break, the rest of us pay the bill. There are no money trees.

Hey flash, the Gov. doesn’t earn money, it all comes from the tax payer, you probably wouldn’t know anything about that though !

Where do you think the 700 billion taxpayer bailout went to?
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26803347/ns/business-stocks_and_economy/t/bush-seeking-billion-financial-bailout/

Where do you think the money comes from for the goverment to get it and disperse it?
It is simply that all banks are now government entitities.The homes that are foreclosed or to be foreclosed are or will be owned by banks which are owned by the government. So this will lead or has already led to no private property ownership in the United States. The proverbial camel in the tent is almost totally in except for the tail.

Sorry Dave, didn’t see your post. Yours is better.

DaveH..as the link you provided stated..they didn’t read the Settlement and only know the terms from a discussion group. It will take a few weeks to figure out what the settlement really states and the ramifications thereof. You do a great disservice to truth and honesty by stating anythng but the bare profile layout of the settlement.

Here are the details that have been offered about the Mortgage Settlement:
http://www.nationalmortgagesettlement.com/about

And Flashman, you are so transparent. Only Ignorant Liberal Zealots would give any credence to your personal attacks. The rest of us know you’re here solely to harass good people.

DaveH,
yup, his stuff still highly stinks but lately it’s getting a little watery!!! Getting a little weak kneed is my guess!!1

The banks and mortgage companies shafted the home buyer (taxpayer) when they deployed all their fancy financing. (ARM’s for one). They are responsible for the housing bubble and do need to adjust the interest rates for those home buyers. Either that or have them go to jail for their ponzi schemes.

Eddie, an ARM is just as legitimate a mortgage as a fixed rate loan. The terms and even the effect of interest rate changes are clearly spelled out in the loan documents. It is not a banker’s fault if a home buyer chooses the adjustable rate loan and then rates and payments increase. Every borrower had the opportunity to take a fixed-rate loan instead, so why is it “shafting” the customer to offer both options?

KKF…good point on the ARMs. Let me ask a follow up. When one took out a 5/1 ARM for the lower rate and knowing in five yearss they’ll make a little more money and can switch to a fixed 30 … then the rules changed in four years to where only the cream would be able to refinance. Then that same bank…receiving payments on time for four years, decided the borrower was no longer qualified for a better deal.

Who’s fault should that be?

Because banks and mortgage companies sold a product that wasn’t honest. It was more of a bait and switch to reel the buyer in. Naturally the homeowner could afford an ARM at the time but not the fixed so they jumped quickly on the bad choice. The bank got the money whether the homeowner stayed in the house or lost it. Nothing more than a con game no matter how “legal” it was.

Flashy, I’m sure that, as liberals always do, you’d like to shift the blame in your example for a borrower’s inability to qualify for a new loan to someone else, but as usual, your thinking is twisted. Market conditions, rates, regulations, and qualifications are constantly changing and a bank is under no obligation, morally or legally, to assure a borrower that they’ll be able to refinance at some unknown future date. In fact, I’m sure there is some obscure federal regulation that prohibits them from doing so. If the borrower didn’t want the risk of not being able to refinance in the future, they should have taken the fixed rate loan. Your position is so typical of liberals, wanting to pass personal responsibility for their own choices, even their cost of living, to someone else.

First, i disagree with Eddie as to the worthiness of ARMs. They are a good product when utilized as they are meant to be. KKF…I would assume that anyone who sees their position unchanged, as to income, credit scores etc…and having the assurances at the time the ARM was given they would be able to refi out after the fixed period, would tend to believe the bank representative.

Now we both know the sales techniques would have them assure the borrowers the sky will be any color they want if they did the loan. but the banks changed the rules in mid stream, and who were credit worthy one year, after maing payments on time for a year..no longer are considered good risks the next by the same bank?

Banks are under an obligation since the Obama admin to legitimaize every loan that goes through the coffers. In the case where the guidelines have tightened, and the guidelines now longer qualify the borrower, they can manually underwrite the loan and conduct ‘common sense” underwriting and legitimize the deal as a in-house refi with clean payment history.

Thing is..the holding banks see a clean payment history, the adjustment of the rate to increase profits, and won’t refinance. They make a few shekels servicing the loan, and th higher rate for servicers, the better the overall profit. Outside lenders won’t touch the loan because they want only the cream of the cream.

Now…do you want to discuss the banking industry? Let’s have at it.

Eddie47 – Chronolgically, the housing bubble pretty much went like this: Carter (who is now involved w/Habitat for Humanity) started the ball rolling. Clinton wanted every person to have the American Dream(home ownership). In order to do this, lending regulations got in the way. Therefore, Clinton repealed the Glass-Segal Act so that banks could lend to high risk people. Barney Frank heads the commitee that oversees the F & F Macs. Barneys lover is 1 of the top dogs at one of the Macs. HE is the one that came up with the creative financing of ARMS and other loan vehicles of which he made millions in salary and bonus’ from whichever Mac he worked for (see site). http://foro.univision.com/t5/Dem%C3%B3cratas/Barney-Frank-s-Homosexual-Lover-Herb-Moses-Was-a-Senior/td-p/288192498 When Bush tried to get a different department to audit and oversee Fannie & Freddie, Frank had a fit. He knew how much he was prospering from this whole scam.

flushy,
Let me ask you a question. If you go to the bank today to buy a house and they tell you that you don’t make enough to qualify for a starter home, and two years later, you go in to try again, your income has not risen any but the bank now tells you that you can qualify for a larger home, are you NOT going to question that??? Careful there Flushy cause if you say no then you are even a bigger fool than I could ever think you to be!!

Joe..so I have this correct. Two years ago they said no, nothing changed, now they say yes. Would I question that.

I would probably ask if it was because I showed two more years of stable income, employment, and ability and willingness to pay my bills on time. The passage of two years would be a good indication I was a lower risk than what the profile showed two years previous.

In other words, the passing of two years would lower the risk exposure with an extended track record, not increase the risk.

Patty…not exactly accurate.

before the CRA, banks would have a branch in a neighborhood, take deposits, CDs etc from the locals, and not make home loans in the area and have the money used elsewhere. Red lining is the term. The CRA said ‘uh uh”. you take monies by depositors living in an area, you cannot “red line” and not reinvest in the area which these people live. So, banks were barred from red lining an area. loans had to be made on criteria which was objective and gave each property the same treatment. The CRA was also the reporting tool which has banks send in reports showing the number of dpositors in a certain area, the amounts from the area, the number of home loan apps, the number approved, etc etc etc. It does not, and never has, forced banks to make a home loan.

Repeal of Glass Steagall. Did you notice the drafters as well as sponsors of the bill which repealed Glass Steagall? yes, i do fault Clinton for not veto’ing the bill. But one has to recall he was under fire from the Inquisition of Herr Starr and the GOP rat pack. However, it was signed and the wall between banking and investment houses dropped. What is noteworthy however, is that the number of regulators and auditors at the SEC went UP. Thus, there was a number of sheriffs making sure the actions of the banking industry were on the up and up.

Then came Bush II. The number of SEC regulators and auditors plummeted. As with almost ever other agency, the SEC also became politicized (just ask Martha Stewart). The banks went wild in creating instruments which they had no idea what the instruments actually were or did. There are many on record comments form nay in the banking industry stating that. A good book on the subject is “Liars Poker” which explains how the secondary MBS market cme to be. Unbelievable.

The marekt exploded with these new instruments. And the money came rolling in. not just a decent amount of money…huge amounts. Huge. And the SEC could not, did not, would not stop and take a look at what was going on. To this day, I cannot figure out how or why people haven’t gone to jail (I blame the Obama admin on that one).

now we come to the Big Lie and Barney Frank/Chris Dodd. When FNMA and Freddie saw the obscene profits made in the MBS market and Subprime and AltA loans, they wanted in. not only Frank and Dodd, but a significant number of Congress was supporting the move. There were a few who made cautionary statements, but for the most part…everyone was saying “why not”? Barney frank and Chris Dood are villianized because they are the Right’s targets. not because either did anything unusual in regards to everyone else. And yes, Barney Frank should have shut up.

What occurred was that FNMA and Freddie did not insure Subprime/AltA loans, but they invested in buying the pools of Mortgage Backed Securities which were secured by those loans. that’s an imortant distinction..they did not insure the loans, but the charters were amended to allow them to invest via purchasing the securities securing the investments.

The other important distinction was FNMA/Freddie came into the game late just before the Crash came. There are two differing views and rumors attached to this. the first and most popular (though maybe not the most accurate) is that they saw greed, there were connections with Congress, and they made very very bad investment decisions…allowed by Barney Frank and the top officers made a killing in the tens of millions of dollars in salary bonuses.

The other is that Wall street/Bush II saw the crash coming in a year, could not pull back because of the massive amount fo exposure and likelihood several of the Big banks would fail, and could not pull out without without causing a crash and economic crisis, so they cut a deal with FNMA and Freddie to allow them to buy into the markket, prop it up with their vast cash reserves, and hoped it would be able to slowly fall…or any crisis would be put off until post 2008 election.

My own opinion? Both theories are correct. i have a very difficult time beliving the banks did not know a year or so ahead of timje what was going to occur and they wanted the risk passed on to the public, and Bush II was more than willing to do that. The fall was to be delayed until after the election (dam* those Europeans who called AIG to the table for payment on MBS going bad), and I think Congress saw the housing boom and went along with it for political purposes, not thinking it through as to what was coming down the pike unless the pressure was relieved.

Now….what the right and the financial ghurus on wall Street are not talking up, and what i believe is the main reason it came to a crash, was the SEC’s “wink and nod” at the whole schebang.

The number of auditors and regulators gutted, those remaining were industry insiders or never pressing for the information (more than enough sworn testimony acknowleging they feared for their jobs had they pushed for or questioned the information). And the wolves went wild in the sheep pen.

When the regulations went away, then is the time to increase oversight of the remaining regulations. Not decrease oversight and toss out all the existing remaining rules with the discarded ones.

Flashy-Boy, you say a whole lot of nothing. The bottom line is, Clinton made a promise that every American should be able to own a home. HE wanted Glass-Segal repealed because it was the only thing (those darn bank regs) in the way of him being able to make good on his promise. Because with those regs in place, those people NEVER would have qualified for a loan. He is the one who let the fox in the chicken coup. Yes, it was a republican congress that put it together to appease him and reach across the isle to get along. The bottom line is and has always been that the only thing the gov’t. does is make for 1 big FUBAR. And now, we know the result of gov’t. meddling in the private sector. As if the writing wasn’t already on the wall.

Is that where this country is headed? Have no doubt. Just look at the 99%ers.

LOL …. i doubt the banks will use their employee pension funds. You think they can’t afford it?

According to the original artical on this deal, the banks themselves will pay between $5 &$7 Billion, the emaining $18 to $20 Billion will come from any, not just employees, Annuities, 401Ks or Murual Funds managed by those banks! That means yours and mine!

So…if i get this correct..you’re stating the banks are going to breach fiduciary duties to 401s, pensions etc and have them foot the majority of the settlement bill?

Or are the 401s, pensions etc as the holders of the MSBs going to get stung by short payioffs on the bonds and securities scured by these loans, and the banks then taking on defending against that class action lawsuit ?

@Lueder: No, not taking it from pension funds; but borrowing as in the capital created in their investment pools; which in turn will mean significantly lower return on investment from their 401K initiative. So in essence, you might say that the 401k did in essence ‘pay’ for the initial 5 billion from each of these banks (the cash has to come from their investment portfolio…unless they begin printing money on their own!)

That should be a warning then for all investors to not trust the banks. They set up the bundling of mortgages and sold them worldwide and even were given a AAA rating. The pay off was made and the unsuspecting investors and mortgage buyers got the shaft. There is guilt written all over this mortgage scam and the trail leads back to the banks.

Eddie – It was Fannie and Freddie that bundled those sub primes to investors. http://www.businessweek.com/ap/financialnews/D9RLP51O0.htm

Eddie & Patty: Actually you’re both right. The commercial banks bundled and sold mortgages, Fannie & Freddie rebundled and sold mortgage-backed securities, investment banks rebundled MBS’s and sold collateralized debt obligations, and bigger shysters rebundled CDO’s into more leveraged CDO’s, with each repackager taking their cut along the way. By the time you get to the 4th derivative level, even a tiny change in the default rate on the underlying mortgages produces gigantic losses. So, when housing prices stopped rising due to overbuilding, and people decided to walk away rather than pay the agreed-upon payments, economic collapse. All the repackaging would not have been possible though without the government (that’s taxpayers) backing from FNMA/FHLMC. So, once again, government meddling in a free-market system is to blame.

KKF…i would agree except the part the MBS market would not have been but for FNMA and Freddie. Would you agree that FNMA and Freddie got into the MBS market because they saw huge profits being made and wanted to jump in for a share of those profits, thus skirted the very rules that had made them known for quality Prime loans?

The Subprime and Alt A markets were well established before FNMA/Freddie got into the game.

No Flashy, I wouldn’t agree that Fannie & Freddie got into the mortgage market because they wanted a piece of the profits being made. They are government agencies that got into the market because the libs wanted everyone to own a house, and for that they needed a vast secondary market for mortgages, which they assured by giving the loans government backing.

Also, your insinuation that sub-prime and Alt-A loans were responsible for the mortgage crisis is also unfounded. Fannie & Freddie ended up on the hook for billions of $ in mortgage defaults on standard conforming loans. That’s what brought down the house.

you think Chip or this site doesn’t have an agenda? I’m not dissing it…but I would certainly not make such a statement as this being an agenda free site.

Yep, Chip has an agenda — pro people, anti Government meddlers. Quite the opposite of Flashman’s typical comment.

The Banksters were anything but pro-people! They were the Pied Piper’s who lured investors and hombuyers into their lare. Sure it was citizens who fell for the deal that was too good to be true but why aren’t the Banksters sitting in jail,like normal crooks are? I would say that restitution to the people they shafted should be even greater. The Banksters committed the crime and they should be the ones to do the time not the homeowners!

well gee, Flushy, if you can do better why don’t you start your OWN site??? Or would you admit that Mr. Livingston has THAT all over you??? Remember Flushy those that can, DO. Those that can’t try to TEACH!

Joe..i’m not dissing it. As i said.

but to state there is not agenda or reason is to be totally blind. I’m not critixzing the site nor it’s reason for existence. bob livingston is very open and clear about it…the site is to push the Conservative agenda. i have no issue with having the reasons/agenda exist.

Don’t even try to compare yourself to Bob Livingston, Flashman. Bob is a knowledgeable honest person. You are just a Liberal Troll who is here to spread misinformation and other Liberal manure.

Here is a short version of the problems with the settlement:
http://www.cato-at-liberty.org/questions-and-thoughts-on-the-mortgage-settlement/

Here is a longer version:
http://reason.org/blog/show/mortgage-settlement-misses-point

I posted a link to a very comprehensive critique of the settlement in a later comment.

The prices were not FAIR because the govt lured thousands of buyers into the market who would not normally be there with the promise of readily available money at NO risk. As a result many responsible people did refrain from buying during the bubble. But most of the buyers didn’t care what a fair price was because there was no risk, thus driving up the price. My only contention is that when the Govt offers free money, there are plenty of greedy parties out there that see an opportunity to ‘separate a fool from his money’. Hard work combines morality with profit. Free money always removes morality from the equation.

Errrr…yiu state the gov’t ‘lured’ people into the market. pray tell, what gun was held to the bank’s head to make the loan at such easy qualiying terms. (And no, the Community Reinvestment Act nor FNMA/Freddie forced the loans. That’s a dog that won’t hunt. It’s the typical untrue red herring by the Right.)

Where have you been? There was a housing bubble! None of the prices were fair. I saw that first hand as I was building them.

I.M.H.O., real estate brokers and appraisers are vastly accomplices in the housing problem we are having. Home prices where artificial inflated across the board by those shysters and the organization they build up in many regions forced people to use those outfits. Its a scam, and today you hear advertising to trust your realtor and they only have the best for the community on their minds..what a B.S. I will NEVER use a realtor again ever, I don’t support an industry that is build upon screwing people.

John, a full reply to your screed would be several pages long, so I’ll just touch a few key points.

I am a licensed real estate broker, working in the business since 1985. One of the first concepts we were taught was MARKET VALUE. That is defined as the price a property would bring in negotiations between a willing seller and a willing buyer, neither under undue pressure. APPRAISALS are a method of determining market value, by (a) comparing the subject with recent proximate sold properties and (b) the cost to buy the land and build the house in that locality and under current economic conditions. The usual purpose of an appraisal is to determine the amount to be loaned against the property.

A CMA, or market analysis is a short form of appraisal done by a real estate agent to determine an appropriate asking price (or to validate an offered price) for a property, and usually includes pricing on similar homes currently for sale (the competition).

When I started in May 1985, the typical rate for a fixed 30 year was 14.5% with three points. By early fall of that year the rates had dropped into the mid-9% range. Suddenly many folks who could not afford to buy at all were qualified for a “starter”, and higher earning folks could afford to consider bigger, better or preferred location.

That resulted in multiple offers and bidding wars in many cases (in our area, at least; the Jersey Shore’s reputation had not yet been sullied by Snooki and her crew).

Competition for properties created a seller’s market, with higher closing prices resulting in higher appraisals and CMA’s. The market set the prices, not the Realtors or appraisers.

Back then if a seller wanted to overprice their home, you’d still take the listing (if you could get it for a long enough time period) because the pricing would catch up eventually. In today’s market, our office manager compares overpricing to having to chase a bowling ball down a hill. You keep running (reducing price) but the only way to stop it is to get ahead of it. If they won’t price to the current market, I won’t waste my time.

Yes, there were some crooked real estate agents and appraisers, but they were few and far between. Most of them were eventually caught and punished, and frankly the rest of us were glad to see them go.

Like I said,it would take several pages, but I’ll stop here. Don’t use us, please! You might be one of the sellers who wants a cut commission, to overprice by 20% and a 30 day listing period, or the buyer who insists on a steal rather than a deal.

@Flashy: Errrr, yes it is a pup that will, and DID hunt. It also crapped all over the housing market and industry. You might want to call your butt buddy Barney Frank and have him fill you in on the details of what began in the Clinton era and continued up through the latter Bush term as it applied to ‘stupidity measures’ in the lending laws as they applied to banks. It most certainly WAS a problem because it allowed financially inept people to put nothing down in large (15k-300k) mortgages. That is just plain stupid. When you don’t have a dog in the hunt, it’s simple to give up.

First…the CR Act (Community Reinvestment Act) was in place since the 70′s. Second, the dictates of the Act were that banks that have a presence in an geographical area had to report on how they reinvested in the area as a ratio of how much $$ they had from the area in savings, checking, CDs etc. Third, FNMA and Freddie didn’t get in “the game’ of risk mortgages until late. Yes…there should have been jail time for the officers, I will never argue that. fourth, to say one Congressman could have so much influence during a Repubican administration is coming close to being as real as saying there are green men on Mars. Frank did criticize the banks, but he had not the influence the Right desires to say he had.

You want the real government culprits? Ask yourself this…where were the regulators? Why was the number of regulators slashed by the SEC and how did that agency become so politicized in the bush Administration.

Flashy – Because Bush had a democratic congress that passed all of this.

Yea Flashy the CR Act was installed in the 70′s under the Carter administartion and Obamma has us headed over the same cliff Carter took us over. It took almost 2 decades to fix what Carter did to us.

Flashy, don’t presume to tell me about the CRA and what it did or didn’t do because I worked in the banking industry at that time. My company created products and services to assist banks with that compliance process, and I personally managed the development of those products and services. The teeth of the law was strengthened 5 times during the Clinton administration, and unquestionably, CRA contributed to a lot of loans being made that would not otherwise have been made. Whether it happened under Republicans or Democrats is of no consequence, because either way it’a a liberal government activity to meddle in the business of lending. Get government the hell out of the way, and American businesses will once again be able to compete on a world scale, and succeed or fail according to the skill of the business management, not the desires of some politician to redistribute the benefits of society to someone who hasn’t earned it.

Sorry Patty the legisltaion was passed by a Repub. congress & Bush…Turn off Fox & read some history

JimReed,
Sorry, but your self serving post won’t cut it …sane people are waking up to the real estate fraud by the brokers. Every time a property is sold, the price is inflated by the amount of brokerage fees. In our area it is 12%..sorry, the brokers don’t enough work to earn even 3%. It is a semi captive market slanted to enrich the brokers and darn the sellers or buyers… Personally, i don’t care how you feel about my post and that you feel you would need several pages to justify ripping of the citizen in this country. I sold property, and I bought property, and I do not deal with real estate brokers period… just as I don’t deal with bankers its cash or private financing. And yes, if that means I …gasp… get a cut throat deal, or don’t have to pay a broker ..well whats wrong with that? Oh I know, you don’t get “your” share of the pie that was never yours to start with.

KKf….forgive me for saying…I worked implementing the cmpliance procedures for CRA. When anyone blames the CRA for the housing collapse, that’s the first signal they know not what they speak. It is demonized because most people have no concetp what the CRA is, does, or monitors and it’s a conveneient scapegoat by banks etc to lay blame anywhere they can other than where it should be laid…at their doorstep.

The issue that i have with the administration in the Housing Crisis is that a) no one went to jail or was indicted; and b) the programs put in place before this had no teeth, no enforcement, and were in essence gutted by the banks …

Tony – I beg to differ. All of this was set in motion long before Bush II was ever president. PS I don’t have cable, so no FOX news. Save your breath.

Contractors who renovate houses for re-sale are not flippers. My best friend is such a contractor. But buying houses to hold for 6 months and the resell for double the price with no intent to improve — thats house-flipping.

Dear Tom,

In a free market (I know, our markets are now FAR from free unfortunately), there is legitimate risk in assuming you can buy a house and 6 months to 2 years later sell it for MORE than you paid for it, as the purchasers sometime after 2006 learned. I think all people should be responsible for their decisions.

Ryan,
you better tell HGTV that then. they have a half dozen “FLIPPING” shows where they buy the house repair it , sell it within 3 to 4 months and it IS called flipping a house!! during the bubble, people made millions doing it!! the biggest thing they try to avoid is paying any more mortgage payments than they absolutly HAVE TO! There are also dozens of books on the market detailing how to go about it!

Sorry, that answer should be addressed to Tom Weber.

Pardon the misrepresentation. MOST wealthy people ARE hardworking. But you must admit there is a segment of the wealthy who are amoral and non-working. They only plot ways to get at the wealth that others have aquired, or worse yet, get at the resources of people going through hard times. I’m sure you can think of some of these.

Right On!!

I’m sure you are right Tom, they probably number something under 10% of the Amoral, unworking entitlement people currently draining our Treasury!

So what’s your solution, Tom. More Government to offset the problems created by too much Government?

Tom Webber,
Greed is evenly dispersed amongst the ranks of the haves and have-not’s. There is no direct linkage however between amoral characters and the non-workers. (Screwing less monetarily endowed others for financial gain is hard work)

Nope not more goverment. I think if you read all my entries, the real problem is all the free money. Stop the free money and you’ll greatly decrease all the opportunism that it creates.

@Tom Webber: Tom, you are describing the incumbent democrats in the house and senate…I’m sure you already knew that

Sure there is too much government but let’s not forget how much the Banksters control us and even when they screw up they still come out ahead. They are also stealing other peoples money and all homeowners sometime in their life have to deal with those banks. Throw Mortgage companies and slick realtors into the mix and the private entities are the bigger cons.

The banksters can’t control anything, Eddie, without being backed up by the Force of the Government. It all starts with Government.

DaveH. I notice eddie is always against bankers and anyone who makes any money in the stock market. I cannot help but wonder just how much he has lost through bad investments caused by him not properly researching them.

Do my eyes deceive me, or am I hearing some professed liberals on this site agree with the notion that government is the problem, not the solution?

We see that the government is the problem but the banksters are an even greater problem. Whether government controlled or private systems. Corporates react to government and government react to Corporates. It’s not one or the other.

Thank you DaveH for stating the obvious. eddie really shouldn’t use words he doesn’t understand…but he does!

Tom,
you mean those blood suckers that are on welfare, second generation, and those people on social security disability that work on the side to collect a good wage under the table AREN’T greedy??? Remember now, before you answer, that’s YOUR money they are taking, every time!! those rich are only taking from a few while THOSE blood suckers take from EVERYONE!!!

Remember that when you lose your money to the Rich, you lose it voluntarily. When you lose money to Big Government, you have no choice.

That’s absolutely correct! Its miserable being at the bottom of a pyramid in a pyramid scheme. Just ask all of Madoff’s client that were at the bottom.

In the good ol’ days of banking, mortgage lending was a very low-risk proposition, because people wouldn’t leave the lender holding the bag just because the deal they made on their house turned out not to be a good investment for them. I can’t blame lenders for tightening the requirements to qualify for a loan. In fact, I find it very hypocritical that the same government that pushed the banks into easy mortgage policies with government-backed no-down payment programs, and regulations (CRA) that encouraged unsound lending, is now regulating again to tighten lending rules on those same banks. All this would have been avoided if government would just mind their own business, and quit trying to control the free market system.

KKF…for somene who claims worked with the banking industry, you need to explain how the Subprime and Alt-A market, loans that did not carry government backed insurance, are stated by you to be government backed insured.

To me…the change came sometime around the early part of the Bush Admin. People used to make money to buy a home. It switched when Glass Steagall was rescinded and the number of regulators were slashed, the remianing politicized. It then became people bought a house to make money.

Flushy,
Hate to burst your bubble, but as much as I dislike Bush, it is FACT that he tried to warn of the problems with the bubble and fanny and freddies part in it and was told that there was no problem!! By your good buddies bawney and dirty Harry!!

Tom,
I wish people would quit spreading that manure. Lyndon LaRouche has never run on the Libertarian ticket.
Read this, please, from your own site:
http://larouchepac.com/node/14747

I’m sorry if I insulted anyone with MY lack of knowledge on anything! I thought I could shoot from the hip on that one, silly me!!! That doesn’t change the fact that Lyndon ran for president several times, one time I believe, (I’m shooting from the hip here again! Gotta get back on that horse!!!) on one of the major tickets, I wish I had enough nads to guess, but I really can’t remember. Probably Democratic though, he holds FDR as some kinda god!!!

I don’t care if you erroneously state Lyndon is running for President, but I do care if you say he’s a Libertarian. Lyndon LaRouche is about as far from Libertarian as a man can get:
http://larouchepac.com/node/21622

Did you hear him say anything about our Real Problem — Big Government?
Notice he cites FDR — the worst President in our country’s history.
OMG, and Lincoln also — another of the worst.

You aren’t the first I’ve heard spreading that Libertarian rumor about LaRouche. I think it’s purposeful Propaganda (not necessarily on your part, Tom) to give Libertarians a bad name. Crony Capitalists and their Crony Politicians are scared to death of Libertarian Free Market philosophy. With Free Markets, no company would be immune from failure if they didn’t please the consumers — as it should be.

Lyndon LaRouche: The Face of Evil

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4pGSNYe5TRY

Sunshine kills trolls, here comes the sun!

Laus Deo
Semper Fi

Deet n de de, here comes the sun, and I said, it’s alright de de de de, de de de, de de de de de!!!

You talkin’ bout the chicken man?! That was absolutely brutal FF! The PAIN, the PAIN!!!

SBSS 13

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=kG_RvXPtIh8

Personal Liberty to the prepared.

Laus Deo
Semper Fi

FreedomFighter:

That is a good presentation. I have been following Chris Duane for a while now. He makes a lot of sense as does Bix Weir.

Yesterday afternoon I saw a couple of your posts from Wednesday in this format. How do you do that rather than the link that would go to a differnent window? Those George Carlin & Archie Bunker views were a hoot. I had forgotten just how raunchy George used to get.

Not sure Henry, I think it was a fluke, Lucky I guess.

Laus Deo
Semper Fi

Hey FF, please listen to me good, There is only one way in my opinion to be prepared for what is getting ready to happen, first of all if you haven’t accepted Jesus Christ as your persoanal Lord and Savior, I really don’t understand what in the HELL you’re waiting for!!! Do you think that all this crap is happening simutaniously by coinsidence?!! Or maybe you buy the line that if Bible prophecy is coming to pass it because men are engineering it to do such!!! If so, you seriously overestimate our intelligence! That peticular argument right there is the one that astounds me the most! How do you explain the natural disasters then?!! Do you believe that men can manipulate the weather and earthquakes also!!! You’d better get your sorry ass ready! To all my Christian brothers and sisters out there who may take offence at my language, please I’m trying to communicate at their level! You should have heard me before I was saved, the change in my language alone should be proof of my genuiness to anyone who knew me before! But you’d better know haw to live off the land, all those things that can’t help you survive are a waste of time!! Please notice in the verses here that prophesy of the times that we are living what they are doing with their silver and gold!!! Can you eat it?!!

“Go to now, ye rich men, weep and howl for your miseries that shall come upon you. Your riches are corrupted, and your garments are motheaten. Your gold and silver is cankered; and the rust of them shall be a witness against you, and shall eat your flesh as it were fire. Ye have heaped treasure together for the last days. Behold, the hire of the labourers who have reaped down your fields, which is of you kept back by fraud, crieth: and the cries of them which have reaped are entered into the ears of the Lord of sabaoth. Ye have lived in pleasure on the earth, and been wanton; ye have nourished your hearts, as in a day of slaughter. Ye have condemned and killed the just; and he doth not resist you. Be patient therefore, brethren, unto the coming of the Lord. Behold, the husbandman waiteth for the precious fruit of the earth, and hath long patience for it, until he receive the early and latter rain. Be ye also patient; stablish your hearts: for the coming of the Lord draweth nigh.” – James 5:1-8 (KJV)

They shall cast their silver in the streets, and their gold shall be removed: their silver and their gold shall not be able to deliver them in the day of the wrath of the LORD: they shall not satisfy their souls, neither fill their bowels: because it is the stumblingblock of their iniquity.” – Ezikiel 7:19 (KJV)

Read also Revelation chap. 18, could this be the US, are we not Material Babylon?!!

Yep, good old vote buying.

You must have missed the point of those loans are in people’s 401k’s. So again, the responsible people who have been stashing money into their 401k’s for retirement are going to be footing the bill. The majority are hard working middle class people. Thank god, I dumped my 401k and went with a self directed IRA. At least I am not losing money any longer.

Talk about robbin’ Peter to pay Paul! In the immortal words of Yakov Smirnoff, “Chicken at a fish place, I looove this country!!!”

And you feel safe now Patti?! That was one of the most selfish posts that I think that I’ve ever read! And I thought Deer was bad!

“Go to now, ye rich men, weep and howl for your miseries that shall come upon you. Your riches are corrupted, and your garments are motheaten. Your gold and silver is cankered; and the rust of them shall be a witness against you, and shall eat your flesh as it were fire. Ye have heaped treasure together for the last days. Behold, the hire of the labourers who have reaped down your fields, which is of you kept back by fraud, crieth: and the cries of them which have reaped are entered into the ears of the Lord of sabaoth. Ye have lived in pleasure on the earth, and been wanton; ye have nourished your hearts, as in a day of slaughter. Ye have condemned and killed the just; and he doth not resist you. Be patient therefore, brethren, unto the coming of the Lord. Behold, the husbandman waiteth for the precious fruit of the earth, and hath long patience for it, until he receive the early and latter rain. Be ye also patient; stablish your hearts: for the coming of the Lord draweth nigh.” – James 5:1-8

Pay special attention to the part about the labourers in the fields Patti, I’m so happy for you that YOU were able to get YOUR money out of the Wall St. slush fund! But I wouldn’t be celebrating too soon! If no one’s told you the truth yet Patti, THE WHEELS ARE COMING OFF OF THE BUS!!!
Keep your eyes on the skies, JESUS IS COMING! He loves y’all and so do I!!!

And exactly why does looking after myself LEGALLY make me selfish? If you are still in it, it makes you less knowledgable.

Tom W – I AM one of the “labourers” you goof. Like since the age of 12.

Tom W. says:
February 17, 2012 at 10:21 am
“And you feel safe now Patti?! That was one of the most selfish posts that I think that I’ve ever read! And I thought Deer was bad!”

Tom, surly you were a better space cadet then you are a political savvy blogger. There nothing wrong with people cutting their loses. I had to be rather firm with one of Edward Jones people just last week as he protested while I pulled family funds over concerned about the 2012 elections and what the GOP and their bankers friends might do to inflict financial misery on the American people for some perceived party gains.

Patti made a sound decision and it was hers to make, it’s her money. So get real Space Boy, the world wasn’t created on your birthday or when you pulled you head out and accepted the fact that drugging is for losers and maybe you actually did want to be a part of the process.

It takes years to get over drugging and some side effects never go away. By patient with yourself, you made a wise decision.

But for now, you are “Johnny Come Lately” in this parade my felonious friend and have a lot of catching up to do.

Just because people ignore most of your foolishness statements, don’t confuse it as some kind of “validation” . We endure you and encourage you when you are deserving.

Everything a person might think, does not mean that it requires “saying”.

Hey Ryan Deerinthemud is worried about the wrong side . I have Lost more money under Obama than any GOP .

Hmm? will I’m sorry to hear about your lose, I think just about everybody has got a hair cut the last few years but the grave digger my friend. I buried a 97 year friend this week, he’d already bought the ground and only asked for graveside services, not wishing people to look at him. A little over ten grand and we’ve yet to set the headstone.

It depends on what you are “in” as to how short the haircut. I did rather well myself in contracting of facilities support business while the facilities themselves took a serious bath. Lot’s of bank building office vacancies these days. While my domestic residential tanked in the run up to 2008 and hasn’t recovered since, I didn’t make enough money to pay attention “W”‘s last year in office.

You can blame “O” for that if you wish, or you could be blaming Mc Cain today but you and I both know how it went down. Don’t we?

Patty,
You missed the point as well. It is wores than nothing as this crap will still end up being funded by pax money so the person that paid for his house, like myself, will also have to pay taxes to fund this debacle!!!

Joe H-I think that was a miss directed post to me or please explain further….

Patty, first let me appologize for making you feel personally atacked, I’m sorry that I came across like that. I was refering to the pervasive attitude that as long as it doesn’t effect me everything is just hunkydory! If there was a lesson to be learned from 9/11 I hope and pray that it was that we can’t just rest on our laurels, what effects the rest of the world IS going to effect us also! That’s what I was referring to, and I’m sorry that I came off as attacking you personally, I try to save all that vented up frustration for attacking (big-headed thinks that he some kinda higher life form) idiots like Deerindeepkimchi;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ch74By0HUIg

Ouch! I enjoy a good spirited debate, if you can offer one, bring it on.

Tom W – Apology accepted. And yes, I do feel a little safer knowing that I am not contributing to the wolfs (no I like wolves) the maggots on wallstreet. The whole picture is that when 9/11 hit, those wallstreet people did cover all the 1%ers butts and pulled their stuff out into something safer and let all of us middle class people take the hit for it. People with company 401k’s are the ones that got screwed which is most everyone in the private sector. And ya, that pissed me off. So, since I run my own company, I told my employees what I thought and that I was dumping the plan so they should make arrangements. They all got an instant 3% raise since I was taking away their 3% 401k match. I told them what I was doing and if anyone wanted to do the same I would guide them as best I could. Most were happy to get out as they also could see what was happening. I am on my own. I don’t have a spouse or some gov’t. golden parachute retirement plan when the time comes. So ya, I am going to do what is best for me because I don’t want to have to live with my son or off of others. And if that sounds self serving to you, too bad. At least I am not a sheeple or lemming following everyone else over the perverbile cliff.

The real one-percenters, Patty:
http://mises.org/daily/5776/The-State-is-the-1-Percent

Ryan-Believe me I do know and agree. They are the crony capitalists taking turns getting elected at the helm. Have you ever noticed how it is families that keep getting elected.

Politics as usual FF!

My vote is NOT FOR SALE!

Your vote might not be for sell Dale, but what comfort is that if there is actually no choice, only the illusion of choice?!! It’s either heads or tails of the same ole’ dirty coin!!!

And some would call it lokking outfor those the 1% screwed.Full of inaccuracies and propaganda.

But you are being Suckered by Cons. The Cons are those Leaders and their Propagandists who have led you by the nose to think all Rich people are taking advantage of you, when in fact it is those Leaders and their Cronies, who are competing on an un-level playing field tilted in their favor, who are taking advantage of you.
If you truly want to remedy that, you need to start investigating the advantages of Free Markets where peoples’ properties are strictly protected, and voluntary transactions free of Government meddling (except to protect people from Fraud and Force) is removed from the Marketplace. You could start by reading this book to discover what Capitalism really is (hint, it isn’t what the self-interested Progressives have propagandized you to believe):
http://mises.org/books/capitalism_kelly.pdf

Thank you Mises Institute for providing these Free books for people to learn from.

@John: John, put on your readers; Chip DID cover the 3rd category you mention. In case you still can’t find it: “Now comes the “fairness” President, announcing that the couple that sacrificed and made all their payments on time will get nothing. While the couple that wasn’t as prudent or responsible will have the size of their mortgage and their interest rate on it reduced. If they have been evicted already, they will get a check for $2,000.

So the thrifty and responsible homeowner gets nothing. But in fact he gets worse than nothing. Because when the dust settles, his home will have fallen in value just as much as the other guy’s.

No wonder financial analyst Dick Bove told CNBC viewers that this is “the mortgage deal from hell.” He said that the biggest lesson to learn from all of this is that “only fools meet their financial commitments.”

John, I agree. The first round of foreclosures was mostly people who couldn’t afford a house but got one because of foolish government policy. That started the economic downturn that began layoffs. Once laid off, it is nearly inpossible to keep your home because our safety net unemployment benefits are not a safety net at all. The average benefit is $300 per week. If you have a $1500 mortgage and a $300 car payment and a $200 auto insurance payment each month (very reasonable payments), you can’t make them with the pittance you get from unemployment. This doesn’t even begin to factor in food, utilities, and health insurance. The bottom line is that we don’t have a safety net for middle class & upper middle class people. The rich are self-sufficient. The ‘poor’ are provided for by our safety net. Why should a baby mamma with 5 illegitimate kids get to live off the government (taxpayers) while someone who has worked hard and lost their income loses everything they ever worked for? The social programs set up decades ago to avoid the problems of the Great Depression were hijacked by the Democratic party and welfare has become a way of life for generations of slackers. We need to re-do our unemployment compensation to make it effective and we need to stop paying women to have babies. We also need to end welfare for immigrants.

The last time I looked Banks were mostly run by Conservatives yet the Liberals get blamed for the shenanigans pulled off by those Conservative Banks. Their tricks and fancy financing brought our economy and the mortgage industry to it’s knees. This story is worthless because it doesn’t tell the whole story but there is nothing unusual about that.

What makes my skin crawl Ellen is standing in line at the grocery store and seeing the person in front of you in a work uniform of some kind pay for a basket load of groceries buy swiping the old food stamp card! Oh eddie, STFU!!!

Dntmkmecmoverther

Well, He did not cover that 3rd part at all, he only sheared everyone over the same comb or are YOU just as Chip saying, that people that where responsible all their life’s are irresponsible slackers because they fell on hard times trough no fault of their own?
If so, I hope you will have no rude awakening sometimes in the near future.

John, it makes no difference whether people were responsible and didn’t make their payments, or were irresponsible and didn’t make their payments. Either way, they defaulted on an obligation and it is not the proper business of government to bail them out. Home ownershop entails risks, like any other investment, and that includes loss of your income. If you’re not prepared to bear those risks, you shouldn’t buy a home.

Just so we’re clear, I didn’t and don’t approve of bailouts for the banks either, but a liberal Congress in 2008 disagreed with my philosophy, and decided to take the money from taxpayers, and redistribute it to those who made mistakes in their investments, just as they are continuing to do now.

KKflash,
You are right, but that’s not the point I am trying to make, i am saying that it is elitist and short sighted to call people that where responsible all their life’s and now through an event outside of their control they lost their home …slackers or irresponsible…
I don’t care how much you own, and how secure one thinks he is, there will always be events outside your control that can cause you to loose it all. The average US citizen, and I don’t care how secure they think they are, is only one catastrophic event away from losing everything and living in a card board box

Hey John John, next time please read the article in more detail. Chip covered everyone. By the way, you whine too much.

eddie, once again you’ve made one of the most dumbfounded statements of the day.

I suppose you have honest, verifiable references? NOT!

You’ll never get it and yes, you can’t be fixed.

Yeah, ellen good Idea, let’s give the unemployed MORE reason NOT to work!!! Why not just have them utomatically go to welfare and pay for their house??? The few times I have been laid off, the longest time you could collect unemployment was 26 weeks. What do you suppose people did then to leep their homes? They worked two and three jobs to equal their prior income. This plan was to be a small hold over till you started back to work, not to be a living, any more than minimum wage was!! There are people out there that aren’t even looking for work because they have this money guaranteed for over a year. Lady, the purse strings only stretch so far!!! you want us to end up worse than Greece??

Yeah Jeff, eddie kinda excells at verbal diarrhea!!! Somebody get that boy some Pepto!

John says “In Chips eyes, all those people are slackers…. what a simple world view to have?”.
Where did Chip say that, John? Of course it’s a simple world for Left Liberals because apparently they have no pangs of conscience when they put words in other peoples’ mouths. I see that technique employed regularly by the Left Liberals on this board.
Chip, no doubt, cares a lot about the people who have suffered from the bust (I know I do), but what separates Chip and I from you Left Liberals is that we know the solutions that you offer will bring more of the same misery.
In 2005 my daughter was chomping at the bit to buy a home. She and her husband had been living in an apartment for several years and they were sick of it. I begged her not to buy a home then as I knew we were in a bubble and nothing good could come of it. I told her that she could rent a nice home and let somebody else take the risk of ownership, but she ignored me and did it anyway. 3 years later she walked away from the home. But then she bought another, albeit much more home for the money. She is now underwater again, but if she whines about it to anybody, she knows not to whine to me because she had been warned again on that second purchase also. Do you think it makes me happy to see my children losing their money?
The reality of things is that Politicians protect bankers. They have done that since the beginnings of our country, but most especially since the Federal Reserve was instituted. And since the late 19th century, both major Parties have been complicit with aiding the bankers.
Take the blinders off, John, read this book and get started on learning some reality:
http://mises.org/books/historyofmoney.pdf

Mises has numerous informative books that they have made available free to those who wish to learn the benefits of Freedom. Please contribute to them, so they can continue their great work.

Was that Obama that said he would bring our companies back to the US??? I think my 401K is in the red! I wonder if all those share /stock holders of all those companies – oh yes – and all those $40 mil dollar CEO’s – can sleep at night. We had better learn to speak Chinese. I was in a grocery store last week – picked up a small container of (FRESH?) sliced fruit (3 oz) – and guess what – it came from China! I love McDonald’s filet of fish – only thing I buy there – guess what? – I just found out the fish is processed AND seasoned in China. Wake up america – it’s only a healthy one world economy if EVERY country benefits!

That was cleaver of Tom to change the subject to food stamps. LOL