I’ve never heard such a thing.

Rob

Mom Henning, That is too funny. growing up with a family in the medical profession I know they would be laughing up a storm at that one ! LOL !

That obviously could be true, however, I was referring to the obvious current problem we’ve had with hypocritical high priests bearing PhD “credentials.”

In this case it was an MD.

Not a degree devoid of training in mental issues.

Rob

But not a specialist either. And one with minimal training compared to a mental health specialist. The mental health specialist should have been called in immediately for a review of the OPINION of the MD. As it stands the state has no interest in determining whether Mr Sarti is in fact suicidal they are more interested in depriving him of his rights.

Dennese, how can you draw such a conclusion as: “As it stands the state has no interest in determining whether Mr Sarti is in fact suicidal they are more interested in depriving him of his rights.”

You hve no history on the patient beyond the moments he was on TV. You have zero knowledge of the training of the MD, and you have zero idea of how the system works at that location.

Looke like your debate style is FIRE!, Ready, aim.

Rob

robbie
the simple mental health caseworker who has usually a bachelors in social work has more expertise inmental problems than an MD!!! It’s a fact robbie, something you aren’t used to dealing with, but you CAN look it up!

Yes, a caseworker will review things. Then it goes to a supervisor and then to more doctors.

It’s a system where fact finding and review are a constant process until a decision is reached.

And YOUR silly jabs at me will make absolutely no difference in how the case comes out.

Rob

robbie,
Nice try to pass over what I said, but I wasn’t saying a thing about a social worker looking at the facts! i was stating that a general socialworker has more expertise in mental health issues than the Dr. you trust so much to make this claim! I wouldn’t go to ANY court on the say so of a social worker!!!

Takes time? The dr certainly did NOT take time to be sure of his opinion. He immediately saw to it Mr Sarti was deprived of his right to self defence. There was NO time taken to have Mr Sarti evaluated by a mental specialist as should have been done and it appears the state has no interest in doing so. Mr has been declared “guilty” without a trial or even a hearing and the burden is on him to prove otherwise.

Dennise, may I suggest you find out exactly what is going on with the case ratehr than making wild assumptions.

All we know so far is that the system has been tripped and further evaluatoins WILL occur. Further we know that others close to the scene, the NRA for example, have NOT rallied to his defense. I’d like to know why before I condemn the whole system out of hand.

Rob

yeah, robbie, and if he has employment, in the meantime he could be terminated!! Evn if he doesn’t, his property is left unoccupied! to dam easy to ruin a mans life!! It also said he now can’t be around the school children. wonder what THAT’S all about?? Talk about ruining his life? And you support this kind of —-????

“Dennise, may I suggest you find out exactly what is going on with the case ratehr than making wild assumptions.’

Robbie why don’t you take your own advice.

Mr Sarti can go to a DR. of his own choosing.As long as the DR. is qualified in Mental Health, he can present his diagnosis to any court or review board. Never settle for just their opinion, thats where they hang you out to dry. I had my wife take me too a DR., and she told them she was worried about me, and being left alone with our children. He checked me into a ward, visited few times a day with me. We talked, told stories, and he wrote that I was not a danger to myself, or others. Based on my current medical records from the VA, my service records, wounds, conflicts, he thought I was rather well adjusted for all that I had been through. He was once a military DR. , so that could have helped me some, but he got me some good judgements, and a lot of people that wanted too put me away were now worried I was going to sue them. I did!!

R. Crain,
He has already stated he does not have the money for a Dr. of his choice. Any government Dr. he goes to is going to be biased in the governments favor!

Yep, in all probability.

Much is familiar but the Palm Beach Post Times.which I read reported different aspects as they happened. This article never mentioned the mental hospital stays or his rearrest on the court house steps before the sidewalk was reached.

“There are things Mr. Sarti can do for himself.He can always go file with the ACLU, they take on just about anything,…..”

The chances of the ACLU taking Mr Sartis’ case are slim and none. The ACLU DOES NOT believe in private ownership of firearms.

….and just what is your certification?

How in the hell did you come up with this convoluted crap?

Your lack of understanding is not a factor in the mental or physical treatment of the patient.

Rob

“Your lack of understanding is not a factor in the mental or physical treatment of the patient.”

But yet you blindly accept the opinion of a single doctor who is not a specialist in mental evaluations.

The more of your drivel I read the less coherent you become. You are A far Left elitist drone. You have adopted the Left’s method of accusing everyone who disagrees with you of being the radical extremist and of course denying that it is YOU who occupies that position.

Your arguments are worthless, they can be obtained almost word-for-word on Kos, Huffy or White House dot Gov.

Nice try, Robert, but anyone who pays attention is on to you and ignores your simpering pap.

CZ52 says: “But yet you blindly accept the opinion of a single doctor who is not a specialist in mental evaluations.”

Nope, I do no such thing. The patient met certain criteria that warrants a further look. That starts a process of review, NOT a forever sentence that locks him up, etc. In fact, denying medical treatment can be considered a suicidal path. That’s why I’ve never understood Christian Scientists. They too are suicidal in their efforts to deny medical care. They often make their kids dead by denying them medical care. Oh well… Back to this case.

There will be more review and a determination will be made by experts. If it’s clear he is a danger to himself or others appropriate action will be taken. If not he can get back to waddling around his domain again.

Rob

As Dennis said above what review? It apparently has NOT happened and will not unless Mr Sarti pays for it. This review should have been done by a panel of mental health specialist BEFORE Mr Sarti was deprived of his rights. Now Mr Sarti will have to pay to prove his innocence just backwards of the way the system is supposed to work.

“But yet you blindly accept the opinion of a single doctor who is not a specialist in mental evaluations.”

and what are you yourself accepting as creditable? his rights to bear arms? I know of many criminal that really don’t care one way or another until they are captured and then they attempt to use much the same defense.

A peace officer is even less creditable in evaluating a mental state or conditions then a doctor, but he has the power and responsibility to access danger and act with deadly force if found necessary, allowing a broad of inquires and the DA’s office to go over his actions and the details at their leisure.

But you are right, I trust the actor will be “subjected” to his rights to a defense. In the meantime, he will be asked to stand down, to do otherwise will be taken as provocation and found in contempt.

Yes Deerinwater I accept his right to not be dep[rived of his firearms untill the state PROVES he has done something to give cause to deprive him of those rights. The State has NOT proven that in this case. You have one Dr’s opinion and he is not a mental health professional but rather a GP. If the Dr had called in one or more mental health professionals and the majority opinion was that Mr Sartis was a threat to either himself or others then they would have a case for depriving him of his firearms.

Well,that’s not the way it works ~ never has been.

robbie,
WRONG!!!! A persons medical files are confidential even in a murder charge! they must FIRST get a warrant from a judge to legally obtain his records. I can cite a source if you want, sonny!!

Shucks Joe… You aren’t aware of manditory reporting, are you?

You can get an overview at: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mandated_reporter

“In many U.S. states and Australia, mandated reporters are professionals who, in the ordinary course of their work and because they have regular contact with children, disabled persons, senior citizens, or other identified vulnerable populations, are required to report (or cause a report to be made) whenever financial, physical, sexual or other types of abuse has been observed or is suspected, or when there is evidence of neglect, knowledge of an incident, or an imminent risk of serious harm.”

Rob

So RS you believe in a single dr., one that is not even a specialist in mental conditions depriving a person of his/her rights. By your reasoning your dentist can deprive you of your right to posess a firearm or any other right because you want more or less painkiller than he wants to use. By your reasoning you can be deprived of your rights because you do not take every single pill your dr has perscribed for you.

Here we go again: “So RS you believe in a single dr., one that is not even a specialist in mental conditions depriving a person of his/her rights. ”

Yup. To be followed immediately by mental health folks who are experts in this. That process is generally pretty quick (sometimes within hours). Sometimes it can take a few days.

Someone has to be on point. MDs are one place. Police can also bring someone in for evaluation if they feel they are a danger to themselves or others. Please keep in mind that those on the front lines are aware of what they are doing, they’ve had training, and they do care about the health and safety of others. They ain’t out there just willy nilly denying folks rights. There are proticals, forms, and a lot of training.

Rob

“Yup. To be followed immediately by mental health folks who are experts in this.”

Hasn’t happened and will not happen unless Mr Sartis finds a way to pay for it himself. So the logical conclusion is you approve of declairing a person “guilty” without them being offered a chance to defend themselves before they are declaired so. You approve of finding a person “guilty” then requiring them to prove their innocence after the sentence (in this case confiscation of his firearms) in enforced.

robbie,
so you support the detaining of a man for three- four days to evaluate him on the sayso of a non-expert without charges??? Oh, I forgot, your hero settled that with his new law!!! If said man had a job, he could be fired for being detained!!! Yeah, robbie good idea let’s put more people out of work!!

Mr. Smith does make some good points, if everyone is playing fair on the same page. People in power over others with no power will every time abuse that power. I have seen it done many times, and I have had that same power trip pulled on me. I STOOD UP to that power, and I went to jail for it. The judge gave me a lecture, and I told him I did not come here today to be lectured by you. YOU put your pants on the same way I do, one damn leg at a time.When my attorney told him I was a 100% disabled veteran, and I was sorry for my outburst, I turned to my attorney and told him he was fired. I told the judge I might have a little trouble getting around when I first get up, but there was nothing wrong with me mentally. He gave me 8 months to think about that, in a Federal Prision, Springfield Federal Detention Center, in Springfield, Mo. I was there with Gotti, the blind sheik that was responsible for the 1994 bombing of the WTC in New York. I was with the worst people this world has to offer. They are all sent there for evaluations before court. My first check from the FEDS was 20,000 dollars, and a lot of apologies, and some DR. still curse me to this day .No one said life was fair, but it is what you make it, if you don`t mind a few obstacles in your way. But with time, perseverance, determination, you will make it.Having a good understanding wife helps a lot.Laws are nice, we need them to survive, but don`t be afraid to bend a few along the way, I have, and still do. Remember, nice guys wind up at the back of the line. Don`t let anyone walk all over you, once you do, it get easier each time. I don`t care if your a man or a woman, stand for what you believe. NUFF SAID!!

John H., I normally agree with most things you post. You are right about the court order, provided everyone is playing by the rules. I have had my medical and military records handed to me at trial by the very people prosecuting me. This is how I had one case reduced to a reprimand, then thrown out. Naturally it was a assault case, which I was as guilty as sin for, but I made their mistakes work for me. It also helps to have a non- biased judge.

R. Crain,
Yup, IF the government doesn’t abuse the power!

Robert, once again, most adults don’t confuse “Pro-life” issues of the unborn with adult choices in life.

Your mental capacity of a teenager is started to be reflected in your comments.

Would you rather he die?

So much for “pro-life.” Another lie from the right.

Rob

robbie,
I thought if he wanted to you were FOR it??? sounds to me like you are fighting AGAINST his wishes!

Robert, what does “Pro-life” have to do with an adult making their own choices? Pro-life is for those who cannot speak for themselves, like in their mothers womb.

Do always get confused this easily?

Typo correction: Do YOU always get confused this easily?

I wanted to be sure I corrected that for you Robert, given the fact that you seem to get confused on simple straight forward issues. ):>

Attempt to be mature and attack the message and not the messenger.

Debates seem to work much better that way and something might be accomplished beside Nanny Nanny Poo Poo games and “I got you last”

And what are you gonna say if, in the near future, he DOES get attacked, robbie boy?? you say you support the second, but you trample it jst like your hero!!

I may be wrong here, but I thought that I was in charge of my body. At the VA, when I finished my treatment of prostrate cancer, I saw the DR. for my 3 month check up. HE told me, that my testicles had to be removed. I said, SAY WHAT!! He said that he could schedule surgery in a weeks time, or I could medicate myself, and do it non- surgically. When I asked why, he said it was standard procedure. The cancer feeds on testosterone, and they create it. He looked at me like it was a no brainer. I told him I was still using them, and I like them a lot. He told me, if I refuse, he would get a court order, and it would still be done. I told him he needed to read the rest of my medical file, and he did, especially the pages I pointed out to him. SOooo, that was you that knocked out DR. XXXX front teeth, and you broke his arm also. Then he was transferred to I reminded him. I told him if he still wanted too get a court order, that I could not stop him, but the last thing he would see in this world when he answered his door was the barrel of my shotgun. After reading more of my military exploits and wounds received, he agreed with me that it was probably a bad idea, and we would not mention it again. Even when I was diagnosed with throat cancer later on, it was never brought up again. Me and this DR. talk often now, and we get along. He did ask me once over lunch if I was really serious, and I just looked at him. He never asked that again.Me and the BOYS down there are still together, and plan on it for a long time to come.

I also ment to say, grow a pair. If you don`t stand up for yourself, no one else is going to do it for you. He challenged me, and I challenged right back. He really did not mean it, his convictions were not set in stone, mine were. His diagnosis was not backed up by medical facts, or gazing into the future. My medical records, along with some military actions, with wounds received, were more than enough to back me up. He knew when he looked into my eyes, this is the real deal. Nuff said!!

I hate too tell you this Robert Smith, but its his health. He can protect it himself, or ignore it. Its his body. Thats like me Dr. Bob telling you that your no longer going to eat what you want. Your going to eat what I tell you, I`m trying to save your life. If you are fairly confident in your own abilities, your going to ignore me, and do what you want. Then I`m going to have you declared MENTALLY unfit, cause you don` t want to save yourself. You would not take to kindly to that. This Dr. abused this mans rights, simply by using his position. It happens a lot, but most people are too stupid to complain. They would rather go along to get along. The mere fact this man brought this problem to the light means he is mentally aware of his plight, and does not agree with it. Sounds like he`s all there to me.

Yep JoeH, Robert talks in circles and is too stupid to realize it.

ROFL… Let ‘em kill themselves, and what’s the price of a few others when it comes to freedom?

And then when a state like Oregon approves of assisted suicide the extreme right goes all flippity dippity to take that right away.

ROFL

Such antics from the extreme right. Pro-life right up until people are born and then they forget about them.

Rob

Oh, I see Robbie!!! You support all rights that you APPROVE of! If it isn’t something you approve of it don’t deserve your support!!! Gee, robbie isn’t that what you are accusing US of???

You are kind of a sick puppy aren’t you kelly ? You’d be the first one to squeal if some nut killed a love one that could have been prevented. And I wouldn’t blame you one bit.

You can’t expect to act a fool and banish firearms, you will be neutralized if I have to do it.

I’m a little old for mother’s basement, a old war horse that still have reoccurring dreams and night sweats of the men I sent to Jesus. So maybe you could conduct yourself like a grownup?

We enjoy young peoples participation here but this is not a children’s sight.

Deerinshi-, I agree with Kelly you need to change your meds or get some physic help. Everything you say is totally incoherant and meaningless.

Well I got news for you, your freedom has limits Mister. It stops where other people’s nose begins.

You show up, healed up and acting a threat, you will be overwhelm with events that will be out of your control. I don’t give a $hit who you agree with. Neither one of you know much about the “real world”, having watched too much TV would be my guess.

Just try it once and see how it works out for you. If you live through it, you can explain your 2nd amendment rights.

Carrying a weapon comes with great responsibility, clearly something you know nothing about.

From Deerinwater: “Well I got news for you, your freedom has limits Mister. It stops where other people’s nose begins. ”

Or their vagina.

Rob

deermakingwater,
when are you gonna realize that half threat of yours doesn’t scare anybody here? you ain’t the only one that was THERE old fart!!

I make no threat Joe, but only a promise.

Attempting to frighten anyone is the very last thing on my mind.

But if these posters have yet to understand the way the world actually works and believe they possess inalienably “rights” and some super “powers” that somehow make them immune,they are is serious trouble. They have been counseled to the contrary. Where they go from this point, they go alone.

Some people just don’t live long enough to acquire survival skills, where it’s in the bush or on city streets.

But please don’t confuse my words as a veiled threat but only a promise from an old veteran that hates needless conflict and the pouring of blood.

Deerinwater, What combat unit did you serve in, where and when?

Apn,
Deermakingwater says he was in Nam as a ground pounder and as such, I give him THAT respect. i just get tired of his seemingly veiled threat just because he was htere! There are many here that were there, myself included! I’ve been to see the bear a few times myself and it don’t make me special! 18 months as a door gunner and crewchief.

Joeh…….Thank both you and deerinwater for your service! Nam was ugly and very misunderstood. Politics screwed that one up.

Had several family members that served in Nam. From combat grunts, Huey to C130 Spooky pilots(Puff the magic dragon). We thought we would lose all of them but they all returned home safely. Many close calls though. Our family currently has several serving now from Grunts, Spec Ops to a General.

Deerinwater,
and all of you that have served in the hideous wars of our lifetime, Your service is appreciated here. My brother was also over there and when he came home he was never the same, and even now he has problems. I can’t imagine what any of you went through, but in talking to my brother and him talking to me, I do know that as soldiers you were asked to things that were against your natural inclinations and now trying to live with that , there seems to be no relief. My brother has had difficulty for years also, but I told him he had to put it in a place where he could live around it. First he has to forgive himself. He is punishing himself over and over everyday. You know when we are children and we do something we know is wrong, usually mom or dad will punish us and when that punishment is over it is over. The problem comes in when we grow up and mom and dad aren’t there to measure out the punishment so we punish ourselves. Trouble is we don’t stop the punishment so it goes on all of our lives. You have to come to an understanding that you have been punished enough and it is over and needs to be put away. To continue in the punishment acomplishes nothing any longer. It is time to give it up and let yourself heal and start loving yourself again. If Jesus can forgive and forget all our sins and continue to love us then we need to make the steps forward to forgive ourselves and begin to love ourselves again. Try it. Just give everything that hurts in you to the Lord and let him take care of it from now on and you just forget it and start loving yourself again. Forgive yourself and move on. My brother is beginning to do that, but it will take time. Please try. The psat is gone and can only return if you bring it back yourself.

Granny Mae,
Unfortunatly, you are only half right. Sometimes for a few the past comes calling unbidden like a theif in the night to steal your feelings of security. I have friends that still have the sweats and nightmares and they have tried their utmost to let the past go.

Only if we dont vote for him.

Logic!

Why dont you stay on topic, is the ADD kicking in? Take the meds.

Nope, still on topic. The government has absoltely no place in dictating either for or against abortion.

Rob

Does the government have a place in controlling murder? Is so, then it does have a place in abortion. One persons life is more valuable and more protected than another persons inconvenience. Life always trumps inconvenience especially when the inconvenience is just a consequence of that persons chosen actions.

kristy asks: “Does the government have a place in controlling murder?”

If a patient presents with symptoms or someone makes serious threats I certainly hope so.

“Is so, then it does have a place in abortion.”

Abortion isn’t “murder’ unless you really really want it to be in the context of your religion or other beliefs.

“One persons life is more valuable and more protected than another persons inconvenience.”

Same old anti-choice garbage. Clue: It isn’t a person. If it is, it’s like a person who stays in my home and declares they will stick around for 9 months where I have to feed, shelter, and protect them whether or not I want to. OUT they will go.

“Life always trumps inconvenience especially when the inconvenience is just a consequence of that persons chosen actions.”

Yup, pregnancy and having a kid are the penalty for having had sex. Sheesh, anti-abortion sex control.

Except in America and many other countries it’s BEST for each woman to make the decision for herself.

Rob

robbie,
It ain’t an ACORN, either!!! WRITE THE CHECK!!!! Abortion ONLY in case of rape, incest, or TRUE DANGER to the womans health!! BTW, TRUE DANGER DOESN’T INCLUDE Interuption to her ability to have fun!!! She HAD that, now’s the time for PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY!!!

Well Robert, too bad your mother didn’t decide to abort you.

You seem to have a better understanding of when life begins than GOD does, correct? Ole Robert, in all his POWER and GLORY has passed his decree upon us simpletons that life begins when he proclamith it.

“And it came to pass, that, when Elisabeth heard the salutation of Mary, the babe leaped in her womb; and Elisabeth was filled with the Holy Ghost:”

I wouldn’t want to be you buddy, sick pup. May GOD have mercy on you.

walmart says: “Ok, fair enough, but was their a jury trial at least?”

A “jury” isn’t the best equipped to determine if someone is a threat to themselves or others. That’s where trained professionals must make judgements.

Their efforts, as the doctor’s, are generally short term situations pending further diagnosis.

It’s a delicate balance. In the case of Seung-Hui Cho (VA Tech killings) the system failed. The mental health community took a lot of heat for that after 32 people died.

Sometimes the threat is real. Only time can make a reasonibly sure estimate of any individual case. We don’t have the component of time in this case yet.

Rob

A health care professional (preferablly several reaching consenses) comes to the conclusion of whether or not the person is mentally or emotionally handicapped. However, when deciding if the public should take away fundamental liberties because of that, either we wait for the crime to be committed, or a Jury does it before hand if the threat is that real. Yes, someone might get hurt, but thats the price for liberty. The worse seriel killer in our country killed tens of people before being caught. Adolf Hitler, using the power of the state, killed millions. Government is the real threat, always has been, and must have its power constrained. A government powerful enough to give you everything you could ever want, is powerful enough to easily take it all away. A variation on that is a government powerful enough to protect you from every possible ill, includding yourself, is easily powerful enough to ensure you are not safe at all….

As far as VA tech, if one student there had a gun, things might have turned out differently. Perhaps, Cho Sung We would have only killed 5 people before being killed. Nothing else would have prevented or stopped the carnage before he killed himself. Thats just a cold hard fact, so sorry if gun control advocates are offended.

walmart says: “Nothing else would have prevented or stopped the carnage before he killed himself. ”

I find it sad that you approve of people dying. The mental health system has worked hard to prevent deaths and it is generally effective. Too bad you just don’t understand.

It’s clear the mental health system failed in VA. It could have been prevented.

BTW, I had a permit to carry in VA for almost 20 years until I moved to another state where I got another gun permit. I firmly believe in BOTH ways for the protection of society. Too bad you are so narrow minded. If you and others who object to spending money on mental health servers. More lives could be saved.

Another fact that means that the extreme right isn’t really “pro-life.”

Rob

It is unfortunate that pro gun people think it’s okay for mentally unstable people should and can have weapons because of the Second Amendment. That attitude cheapens the 2nd and allows those unstable folks to commit their dastardly deeds. Such as the VA Tech killings and in Tucson. Mental illness is out there and can be a very serious problem. I do understand that no one should be declared mentally unfit without extensive evaluations such as a family member committing someone only because they want them out of the way.

Or maybe….Just maybe Mr./Ms.Smith,

its that the dilligent among us have studied enough to know that safety cannot be legislated.No matter how many laws,or militant idealists you have in the academia/media,you cannot protect even one single citizen from a madman.
It doesnt matter how many psychologists examine them,nor how many lawyers indict them,nor how many laws you create to stop them….
lunatics can and will get loose and kill people.
You can make a law that says no more guns,but I can go down to the local black market and purchase one if I really need to go on a rampage,right?So your legislation has protected how many of those that I choose to focus my anger on if I am a lunatic?
Not even one.
Now then….lets get to the chase.
If I am a woman,choosing whether my child lives or dies,does that make me a lunatic?
Possibly.
Unlike the lunatic who kills seventeen at the local burger shoppe, she doesnt kill as many,but she still has the power to choose.
Thats it isnt it.
In a nutshell.
Its the POWER over the lives of others.
Thats the rush of it all.
Not just in the circles of lunacy involved in criminal activity,but in legislation as well.THE POWER to coose the haves and the have nots.
The end game of the elitist is to be able to have power over another persons life.
Whether its the child mollesting priest,the news anchor,the IRS,the President of these United States.
That is the end all be all of life to those who push for legislation over others.
To be able through laws,whether made up on the fly,or taking them from the good book,to have power over others.
That was never the purpose of the Bible,to give some the power over others,but that is what humanity has twisted it into meaning.
Just like they twist the common law to have power over whether people perceive they have safety from laws that persumedly protect them.
In either case it is fallacial interpretation that kills them.
Only you can prevent forrest fires,we are told.
But you can only prevent the ones that you might have made.
The lunatics are free and willing to make them despite every precaution you take.
You cant legislate prevention of pyromania.
No matter how hard you try,there will always be someone with the spark of meaness that causes disaster.People will interpret this way and that,until nobody has any freedom,except for the lunatics.
Then what,Mr./Ms. Smith?
-CC.

Hi Eddie,

You posted: “It is unfortunate that pro gun people think it’s okay for mentally unstable people should and can have weapons because of the Second Amendment.”

I’m pro-gun and I DO NOT think it’s OK for a mentally unstable (plus violent offenders, non-citizens, and a few others) to generally carry guns. Of course there are exceptions to most rules like this, but in general only law abiding mentally compitent folks should be able to carry.

And further, with all the above I’m of the opinion that after some period of time that circumstances can change and it it is worth having the ability for our system to accept that so it can restore full rights to individuals. Certainly that would be on a case by case basis.

Rob

robbie,
so in THAT case they were wrong but in this case they were RIGHT?? Why? Because YOU say so??? Gimme a break!!

So much posing, so little understanding.

Why? Different circumstances, different situations.

Rob

not really robbie, cho had been seen by Drs before and they FAILED miserably to see that he had a severe problem. here, you have a guy that’s maybe a little excentric and a single MD is going to see more than the psyc doctors saw in Cho??? I doubt it very much, thank you!! the more likely point of this is the Dr. is anti-gun or even thinks anybody that preps is crazy cause he can’t see past the end of his nose!! Gee, isn’t it wonderful that an opinion can get you LOCKED UP???

The way I look at it is this, He has not been certified as mentally unstable, it should take a lot more time than a couple days and did they put him on medication? The big problem here is they have taken his rights away and not given him any recourse to be able to prove his case nor have the decissions reversed ! He has had his rights taken from him with no chance to get them back. Not right no matter how you look at it !

Kelly thinks it can happen to me easily…

Not so fast. I’m not moribidly obese to the point where it might be impacting on my brain. I don’t have to be committed for treatment of anything that ails me because I have insurance. If this guy doesn’t have insurance contrary to those who would let him die I’m in favor of him getting treatment.

Quite frankly if I were in his shoes I’d be grateful for any doctor who wants to see that I get treatment, even if I have to give up my guns for awhile. Better to be treated than dead.

Or does your version of “pro-life” make it prideful to have cold dead hands gribbing a gun? Silly way to celebrate life IMO.

Rob

does that mean roosevelt was crazy as well, robbie? he was in a wheelchair, obese, and had trouble getting around. Yet HE was president of the US!!

Robert said: ” Or does your version of “pro-life” make it prideful to have cold dead hands gribbing a gun? Silly way to celebrate life IMO.”

Wow, your foolishness never ceases to amaze me. This seems to be a common thread with the progressive mindset. Is this a chemical thing, Robert?

Yes, I would in fact rather die, right now, than loose my FREEDOMS granted through the 2nd amendment because some wacho progressive Doctor gave his “opinion” of my mental capacity to own one.

Shallow my man, you are VERY shallow.

That’s why these things are reviewed. Unfortunately that process has been clouded with the hysteria about his guns having been taken away.

BTW, refusing treatment can be a form of suicide. Being a prepper by itself doesn’t remove the possibility.

Rob

Who is doing the review? How long is this review going to take? Who is paying for this review? I strongly suspect unless Mr Sarti shells out a bundle of money he apparently does not have there will be no review. The review should have happened at state expense before Mr Sarti was declared suicidal and deprived of his rights and should have been done by panel of specialist in mental health not a GP.

Dennis asks: “Who is doing the review?”

Generally after the first responder or manditory reporter a higher level of professional trained and liscensed will review and file a report.

More asked: “How long is this review going to take?”

Sometimes immediately as in some emergency rooms have shrinks on stand-by for just such a circumstance. Sometimes it can take up to 72 hours. They will review and depending on circumstances cut ‘em lose, medicate, or find a bed for them (“bed” being the generic term for place in care). If a crime is involved then they will be remanded to the custody of the police or other law official.

“Who is paying for this review?”

Taxpayers generally.

“I strongly suspect unless Mr Sarti shells out a bundle of money he apparently does not have there will be no review.”

A review is part of the system. IF one has enough money other arrangements can be made but that is relatively rare.

“The review should have happened at state expense before Mr Sarti was declared suicidal and deprived of his rights and should have been done by panel of specialist in mental health not a GP.”

The GP is on point. He did what he was supposed to do. The patient presented with symptoms. When circumstances demand action because certain symptoms are present it all kicks in.

Rob

It is highly unlikely, robbie that a man contemplating suicide is going to stock pile food for a couple of years, or be worried that somebody is going to break in and steal it!! It’s just like the guy that was tossed off the roof a few years back. His killer made a few mistakes, like taking the guy’s jacket off and neatly folding it on the roof. If he was killing himself, he wouldn’t worry about the jacket, he would have just JUMPED!

robbie,
there are certain cancer treatments I would refuse, which is MY RIGHT!
Some of those treatments are worse than the disease and any Dr. that would FORCE a patient to go through them is a sadist! If the patient agrees, that’s different, but to force them to go through it, especially if they have been through it BEFORE and know what is going to happen is nothing short of sadistic!!!

Ahhh, life and the sewers.

No wonder so many want tort reform so bad.

Rob

robbie,
Are you one of these that believes there should be no legal recourse if a dr screws up??? What about the Ohio Dr. that against the opinion of three other plastic surgeons, performed surgery on a womans face, scarring her for life, then when sued, he declared bankruptcy and opened up shop just over the border in Kentucky??? Has he paid ENOUGH??? I don’t think so!!

sheepdog,
OR YOU HAVE A COMPREHENSION PROBLEM!! NRA advertizes the fact that they will provide assistance in the event of problems with police involving your guns in just such cases! Where are they???

Maybe there is more going on than has been published.

My my… How quick the extreme right is to condemn, complain, and cry.

Rob

robbie,
check your answering machine they want the CHECK again!!!

It takes tim eto undo all the damabe Bush and his cronies did.

Remember, Bush took us from a budget surplus and down a slide America haven’t seen since the great depression.

Rob

told ya before robbie, don’t be ignorant and post proof of that surplus! Or ARE you THAT ignorant??

Sounds like the Republican Party. Victory at hand, then they blow it, every time. Personally, I trust no politician, or party. They all lie for a living.

Who said he is actually suicidal? He refused treatment, so he’s suicidal? Personal experience: responders to 911 call wanted the ‘victim’ to go to the hospital to be ‘checked out’. Victim and family knew the ‘victim’ was just drunk. However, the choice was given to either submit to emergency transport to the hospital, or be committed for three days of observation because ‘no on in their right mind would refuse treatment, that would be suicidal.’ Damned if you do, damned if you don’t, and you’re guilty until proven innocent. Who is defending the rights of the individual in this case???

From Frank: “Damned if you do, damned if you don’t, and you’re guilty until proven innocent.”

Sounds like a witch trial to me.

“Who is defending the rights of the individual in this case???”

Actually the system is. They don’t haul people in for grins and giggles. Most emergency responders are genuienly interested in the welfare of folks.

Rob

unless you have a liberal anti-gun doctor that’s who…ever hear of Klintoian doctrine for doctors to report gun fanatics and the doctors determine who is or not one??? sheesh…

He ain`t suicidal!! He proved that when he did not shoot any of them, as they would have cut him to pieces to make a example of him.

eddie,
I thought you were FOR assisted suicide?? changing your spots again??

Oh Joe… You really can’t tell the difference betweekn someone who might be out of control and someone who wants to end suffering?

I guess it is possible to be that ignorant.

Rob

Maybe I’m not. MAYBE IT’S JUST YOU AND EDDIE EFFECTING ME!! YOU TWO GROW ON PEOPLE, LIKE MOLD!!!!

Does anyone remember the deal with the elderly lady in New Orleans, during hurricane Katrina, being forced to admit people into her house when she had already told them she was doing fine and didn’t need any help? The people on her front porch made the decission that she was not alright and slammed her against a wall , took her gun and forced her to leave her home and I didn’t see any of them look to see if she had any medication she needed to take with her. I also understand that a few days later she was asaulted. If they had left her where she was she would have been just fine. They sure took her to safety didn’t they. I really don’t like to see people loose their constitutional rights on just someone elses opinion. I hope this man gets a lot of help and gets this thing reversed.

As the wise man once stated,
“Sitting on a cornflake…..waiting for the van to come..”
You sat and watched the FBI use military vehicles to burn up alleged offenders,and now your reality show heroes are being arrested.
HMMMMM.
For those who watch the History Channel,and think that what is said there,or for that matter any other channels,is actual fact,I have some ocean front property in Arizona you can buy.
Look folks,you dont need a magazine or reporters,or fashion experts(who talk like flaming homosexuals)or TV channels to explain reality to you.Step out into the world,and open your eyes.
Its there….waiting in all its glory.
Yes Virginia,the world is a scary place.
Big Bird is creepy,not funny.
Santa is Satan with the letters switched around.
The tooth fairy doesnt give you money for your teeth,(but would rather be called the Tooth Queer,because face it,the term fairy is not politically correct).
The stuff you call hate speech that you larned in school recently,used to be a freedom that we all enjoyed,based on the age old document known as the Constitution.
But we love the world,and its dominion over us,though once long ago someone told us it went the other way around.But thats the pice you pay for progress kids!
What was I talking about?
Nevermind…..
-CC,

R Crain,
I agree with you. This man thught he was doing good and helping others , just like all the people on that program. They should have thought this out a little more. I bet that doctor saw that program and doesn’t share the same views as these people do, so when this fellow showed up in the office he had a chance to stir up trouble and that is just what he did. It’s too bad, but what goes around usually comes around !

I agree with you Mark!

He can still get his hands on guns , all you need is a good pistol and rifle and lots of ammo . Just keep um walled up till he needs them . hell he can still have cap and ball and black powder .

Jerusalem was occupied by the muslim Turks from 1517-1917!!! Yes!!! Exactly 8 Jubilees or 400 years!!! This was predicted by a Jewish Rabbi in 1217 named Judah Ben Samuel. The Bible tells us that closing in on the end of the age the Jews will be given visions & dreams, prophecy! Guess what? Rabbi Judah tells us the next jubilee Jerusalem will be a no man’s land and that is exactly what it was called by Jordon until 1967 when the six day war was won by Israel, EXACTLY 1 JUBILEE LATER!!! General Allenby took Jerusalem in 1917 with bi-planes which the muslims had mostly never seen. The Bible says that men will fly as birds over the Holy City!!! Wow!!! General Allenby had the pilots throw out flyers over the city warning the muslims to flee. (The muslims had threatened to fight to the last drop of their blood) The muslims fled without a shot being fired since they misread the flyer as meaning Prophet of God instead of Allenby “Alle-NBY” Now Judah says that the 10th jubilee starts the messianic age which is 2018. (5777 Hebrew Calendar)
Take the words of Jesus who said in answer to the Apostles question, “When would He come to rule & reign?” and Jesus says that when Israel becomes a nation, that generation that sees that will not pass away before everything happens. A generation it says in psalm 90 is “70 years and then we fly away.” So take 1948 + 70 =2018-19 -7(trib)=2012
“AFTER TWO DAYS HE WILL RAISE US UP TO LIVE IN HIS SIGHT.” HOSEA 6:2 THE BIBLE TELLS US A DAY IS A THOUSAND YEARS AND A THOUSAND YEARS A DAY. PETER CONFIRMS THIS IN HIS LETTER. JESUS YESHUA HAS BEEN GONE NEARLY TWO THOUSAND YEARS.(HIS ASCENSION) NOW THE RAPTURE IS MUCH CLOSER THAN WE THINK!!!!!!!!

JUST AS YESHUA (JESUS) CAME TO EARTH THE FIRST TIME EXACTLY AS PREDICTED IN DANIEL 9 AND NEHEMIAH 2:1-9, HERE IT SAYS “483 YEARS AFTER ARTAXERXES GIVES THE DECREE TO REBUILD JERUSALEM, (ON A BABY DONKEY ZECH 9:9) YESHUA (JESUS) YOUR KING WILL COME”. YES. THIS IS NONE OTHER THAN THE FIRST EVER PALM SUNDAY PREDICTED TO THE EXACT DAY. NOW GUESS WHAT? THE SECOND AND FINAL TIME YESHUA COMES MAY WELL ALSO COINCIDENTLY BE “483 YEARS” AFTER “SULEIMAN THE MAGNIFICENT” REBUILT THE WALLS OF JERUSALEM IN 1535. *(SEARCH IT, TO PROVE HISTORIC FACTS) WOW, THIS IS AMAZING. THE SAME “483 YEARS AFTER” WILL PUT US IN THE YEAR 5777 (2018) AS WELL.
Did you know that Suleiman The Magnificent, besides rebuilding the walls of Jerusalem, also sealed up the Eastern gate exactly as it is prophesied in the Holy Bible in Ezekiel 44:1-3 ? This is the same Eastern gate which Jesus entered on Palm Sunday on a donkey(Zech 9:9). The Jews also found in Scripture that the Eastern gate, sealed up now for nearly 500 years, will not be opened again until Messiah enters Jerusalem through this gate! The Scriptures tell us this Eastern gate will blow out as Jesus enters Jerusalem through this gate a second time in triumph, this time on a white horse, right after landing on the Mount Of Olives at His second coming!!! So the math above is really significant & fits into God’s plan even more than we could have imagined!!!

The #1 Selling Book in the History of the World (The Holy Bible) says that the World will never end! Jesus will Rapture His believers to Heaven, then return to Earth after the Great Tribulation and set up His One Thousand Year Reign. Later Jesus will remodel the Earth removing the Oceans, filling the earth with fresh water running streams etc. and His Reign will last Forever!
Proof> There are many Scriptures that prove that the Rapture is very real, such as: 1 Thes 4:17, & 1 Cor 15, but my favorite is when Jesus says in The Gospel (John 14:2) that, “In my Father’s House there are many mansions, I go therefore to prepare a place for you, so that where I Am, you may also be. If this were not so I would have told you.”
YES! We are now living in the most exciting time in all of world history! Did you know that the word “Church” in the original Greek Bible translation means, “Called Out Group”!? Wow! Be Rapture Ready Today! Tell you friends & family! It is time to start looking up! Our Redemption Draweth Neigh!!! The Wedding Feast of The Lamb is Next for those that will repent, believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, that He died for our sins upon the cross and rose again and is now Alive Forevermore!!! Vivat Jesus!!! (The Rapture & Wedding Feast is Next! The word Rapture is from the Latin word, “Rapio” which means “To Catch up” “To Snatch Away or To Take Out” the same word in the Greek is “Harpazo”. This is exactly what the Bible says, “We will be “Caught up” to meet the Lord in the air and so we will be forever with The Lord.”! (1 Thes 4:17)

Michael,
not to detract form your Rabbi, but the Bible also says to “beware the false prophet”. It is said that if you are of the lord you shall know the truth!

If your waiting for a rapture to come you,ll be waiting for a long time.The bible does not teach a rapture you,ll not find it anywhere in the bible.Why does Jesus need to secretly come back and rapture up a group of people?When Jesus does return the whole world will know it there want be any scret about it.You cant show me or anyone else where it the “Word”rapture occurs.You need to dig a whole lot deeper into your bible and take it as it stands and not as some misguided person has taught you.This is not a note of scorn at you it is a shining light.Serch the scriptures and find the truth for yourself.

When I became a Christian I was taught the 1000 year reign was the age of the Church, right now until the end. I was taught there was no rapture. It was a difficulty to believe what I was being taught since what I would understand from my own reading fit the rapture doctrine. Some people may say that since it is not an issue in itself for determining a faith in Christ, the son of God, it is not that important. Much later, after listening to others and my own study I became pretty well convinced the rapture was true. Does believing in the rapture create a mind set of aloofness from current events and a sense of duty? Does it create a excited desire to bring on war and thus the coming of the Lord? Does it create a false since of security from harm? I believe the bible does say to eagerly wait for the coming. Generally what we have to go on is translation of ancient text copies into English. Beyond that it is diligent research and study.
So, what did the students of the Apostles’ proteges believe. What was believed and taught shortly after 100 A.D.? If what I read is true to the writings from two of 2nd generations from the Apostle John, they did not believe in the rapture. (They name 3 nations to descend on Jerusalem). It seems a Jesuit (a catholic evangelical group) priest named Ribera (1537-1591) who first taught that the events prophesied in the books of Daniel and Revelation would not be fulfilled until three and a half years at the end of the age when an individual world dictator called Anti-Christ would arise. Thus Ribera laid the foundation of a system of prophetic interpretation of which the Secret Rapture has now become an integral part. 1826 is about the year the Rapture teaching really took off. Neither believing nor not believing makes you a Christian. However, what if the Rapture teaching is just a big lie with some evil motive?.

I am very cautious about not being in unholy alliance with those who claim to be Jews in Israel. I am very cautious about not being found fighting against the ‘apple’ of God’s eye.

You need to study doctrine and the history of the fathers of the faith. The RAPTURE is a false doctrine along with the Left Behind series, Benny Hinn, Kenneth Copeland TBN and all the the other 501(c)3 wack jobs. So prepping is scriptural and the fact that the NRA refuses to help is more data points as to why I refuse to join this nefarious group which is another disinformation compromising Alex Jones the twit!

Study and show yourself approved. Quit trying to pervert the scriptures to fit your ideas like the the rest of the pulpit pimps!

WOW!!! My head hurts after reading that. Which way is up…down…and sideways???. Dude, to each his own. If he wants to prep. LET HIM!!! You sound like someone trying to run everybodys life