Mine. Ours. If HE isn’t yours, then you won’t get the signs. If you don’t have a god then HE isn’t yours.

The God of Abraham!!

God don’t belong to anybody! Hahahhehehe! ☺

silly notion.

There’s only one God. An angel told Mary to call His name ‘yahshua’ to which the Greeks added ‘christos.’ ‘Yah’ the universal prefix for God; ‘shua’ meaning saviour; and ‘christos’ meaning man’s flesh. Thus Jesus Christ actually means: God the saviour in the flesh. This incarnation of God is the same being that gave the commandments to Moses on Mt. Sinai.

Yeah, this guy is different but just as nutty as you.

Scary sh*t, hey Flashman? Your reaction is perfectly understandable. Yet, it seems odd, don’t you think, the hyper-focus on the middle-east? Surely on that you will agree. What i’m sure you will not agree on, is that its a monstrous conspiracy. But you cannot deny the fact that all focus is on the middle-east. I can live with that! You will note, however, my response to you was not in the form of an insult!

Jay..it is scary. Conspiracy? I may not go as far as that. But manipulated? Absolutely. Follow the money. Who stands to gain? Oil.

What occurs if we don’t have oil? Our economy collapses.

What is the wisest short and long term solution to guaranty our ability to be innovative and lfexible in economic and foreign affairs? Get off oil

What Nation will lead the 21st century world? That which is not reliant on oil.

Where are we most likely to have war after war after war? Oil regions.

where does the vast majority of our money go? Overseas to pay for oil.

Who fights any attempts to transfer our economy to a non-oil reliant economy? ______________

Dittos, Flashy! It is about OIL! But that is only one component in this insane conflict in the middle-east. The other, is religious. We must not overlook, or consider lightly, the latter.

You previously stated, and i quote: “The characteristic human trait is not awareness but conformity, and the characteristic result is religious warfare.” But there’s more to it then that.

Recorded history of wars in the middle east, seldom, if ever, reveal the real cause, or reason for those wars. The typical version; they were fought to suppress tyranny, or to satisfy mindless blood-lust, or to enrich the industrial-military-complex, or just just plain, lust for power. Although all of the reasons mentioned are true, the more specific reason, that is never mentioned, was for land. More specifically, a piece of real-estate, more specifically, the Holy-Land, Jerusalem! Nonsense? As an aside, prior to the industrial age, and the West free from dependence on oil, oddly enough, the West is observed embroiled, warring in the middle-east. Do with that, as you wish, Flashy.

interesting viewpoinht. thinking about it as you detailed it, I would tend to agree. i read wher the Suadi’s need prices at roughly $90/barrel to fulfill their societal pledges of affluence and maintain their investments. The range for the entire region was a spread of $80-100. Chavez requires it within that range. With the economies in Europe, I can’t see the Brits or the Norwegians doing with less. And Russia still needs hard currency from the sale of it’s growing exports.

Concentrating on the ME, we wean off oil, one scenario would be they can’t keep their societies bribed and diverted from their own internal religious conflicts. The place blows up and easily seen that would result in a few regime changes. Israel is more than an oil interest for us, and the ME citizenry would have to be kept in control…so the war drums to cleanse the ME from Israel would start up.

Even if the rest of the world picks up the slack, the technology we would create woud be adopted as the world realizes the benefits of a non-oil reliant economy.

Hmmm…. OK…this is something i need to dwell on.

Good point. Thanks

Yeah…it’d be a mess.

Again, in principal (alternative energy free from dependence of oil) dittos! Truth be told, regarding alternative energy, and the abundant source of such, most would be surprised, has been present, and available, for decades! The source, believe it or not, Hemp! But;

“Hemps prohibition has led to untold suffering around the globe. If we—the global human population—had been able to grow the miracle plant hemp (Cannabis genus) locally and to use it for local industries and businesses, including and especially for fuel, we would never have needed to be addicted to oil, for one, an addiction that is at the root of much misery. We would never have allowed ourselves to be lorded over by international oil-mongers whose crimes against humanity have become legion, including wholesale invasion of other lands and slaughter of countless people.”

“It is said that hemp has up to 50,000 uses, from fiber to fuel to food, but I’ll just provide a taste here:”

“In modern times, hemp has been used for industrial purposes including paper, textiles, biodegradable plastics, construction, health food, fuel, and medical purposes.”

“Hemp is one of the faster growing biomasses known, producing up to 25 tons of dry matter per hectare per year, and one of the earliest domesticated plants known. “

“One highly important use of hemp has been in detoxifying nuclear waste, as demonstrated by experiments in the Ukraine, for example, on the site of the Chernobyl nuclear disaster. Moreover, hemp fuel could actually replace the dangerous and costly nuclear power industry.”

The agenda of the government in its policies against Cannabis have always been to deprive the people access to the plant, while maintaining control over it for the governments own self-interest. This self-interest extends to a multitude of industries including the prison and military industry, the petroleum, timber, cotton, and pharmaceutical industries, as well as the entirety of the banking and corporate establishment which has become empowered through disconnecting people from their one true source of independence and sustenance, the Earth. Cannabis prohibition has served to redirect human evolution from that of a decentralized agrarian lifestyle and natural economy, to a centralized petro-chemical military dictatorship controlled through the artificial economic will of private banks and other trans-national corporate interests.

The next stage in continuing this control, is in the regulation, licensing and taxation of Cannabis cultivation and use through the only practical means available to the corporate system, which is through genetic engineering and patenting of the Cannabis genome.

To achieve this end, the foundation is already being laid in the form of California’s upcoming initiative on the 2010 ballot. This initiative is called Proposition 19: The Regulate, Control and Tax Cannabis Act of 2010.

The leading advocate for Proposition 19 is the organization known as the Drug Policy Alliance (DPA). The DPA is the leading organization spearheading the reform of Cannabis policies in the United States, and has been made up of some of the most powerful and influential characters in today’s global petro-bio-chemical-military-banking-industrial complex.

Some of the Directors of DPA include the following:

Paul Adolph Volcker is an Honorary Director of the Drug Policy Alliance (DPA) whose career is closely associated with that of the Federal Reserve Bank. He was president of the Federal Reserve Bank of New York from 1975-1979, governing board member of the Federal Reserve in 1979, and was Chairman of the Federal Reserve from 1979-1987.

Volcker is believed to be a member of the Council on Foreign Relations, and served as Undersecretary of the Treasury from 1969-1974 before his time with the Federal Reserve. Volcker is chairman of Wolfensohn & Co. and has ties to Chase Manhattan Bank. He is also linked to the Brookings Institute, as well as being an Honorary Trustee at the Aspen Institute, chairman of the Group of 30, and on the board of the Institute for International Economics.

Frank Charles Carlucci III is an Honorary Director of the Drug Policy Alliance (DPA) and has been a member of the Council on Foreign Relations since at least 1995. His government service included positions as Deputy Secretary of Defense from 1980-1982 and Deputy Director of the CIA from 1978-1980.

Carlucci is a director on United Defense Industries (the United States’ largest defense contractor), which is owned by the Carlyle Group, a merchant bank based in Washington, D.C., of which Carlucci is the chairman. Carlucci joined Carlyle in 1989.

Before returning to Government service, Carlucci was Chairman and CEO of Sears World Trade, a business he joined in 1983. He was President Ronald Reagan’s National Security Advisor in 1987 and Secretary of Defense from 1987 to 1988.

Continued:http://www.encod.org/info/SOROS-THE-DEA-MONSANTO-AND-GMO.html

Obviously your mother is a screwy as you seem to be.

I believe that Obama is the leader and if “my mother always said … the Republicans manuever us into wars, it takes the Democrats to fight and win them” works, then how is that possible?

AMEN TO THAT BROTHER

Alice…since 2000 we had the chance of a century. balanced budget, debt being paid off, our economy was looking at the most a flat line adjustment period from the days of wine and roses during the Clinton years, being safe, secure and in peace, and our society was healing from the deep divisions created by the Reagan years.

We had the chance given to few generations. Then greed, graft, corruption, lies, cronyism, manipulation sowing seeds of fear and hate … it was tossed away.

Now we are left with dealing with the mess. Weaker, more exposed, more in danger than anytime since WWII.

And the ignorant masses which feed on fear and hate? And the controllers of those right wing fear led masses? They have no wont to heal. They have no desire to return to moving forward as leaders of the world. So any move by Moderates or progressives is opposed. because the Moderates and Progressives want to move to the future…and the ignorant fear that.

Obama has to deal with the world and our endangerment as Bush/Cheney created it. We get into a shooting war with iran or anyone else right now….it’s because that is what the rubble of the empire left to us has built.

the best thing the TPers on the Right can do? Step aside, quit bit*hing, and let us fix what they broke.

The truly sad thing is that you actually believe that steaming load of horse crap you just dumped out. Your stupidity is overwhelming.

it’s a fact. Live with it. you disagree…then what is your version. (though I can probably writ that fiction since it’s the Lie retold many times by those evading taking responsibility for their actions and support of those actions. All ignoring the true reality and hoping the passage of time will allow the Lie to replace the facts.)

Now do this nation a favor and get out of the way. We have work to do cleaning up after your mess.

I’m not in your way. You’re tripping over your own feet. Typical flappy mouthed liberal dim wit.

Please go back and read where i stated about the wacked Right offering no solutions. look in the mirror. See the resemblance?

Let us fix what they broke? Who is “us”, Flashy? Might you be referring to the one’s that conspired, and were complicit, with the one’s you claim, “Broke It?”

Moderates and Progressives Jay. The people who look to the future instead of trying to return us to the past.

What past, Flashy?

Dear flushy, the progressivs couldn’t fix diddly and the moderates aren’t much better. You and the rest of the worthless turds like you are the problem not the cure.

Let’s see..one who wants to play games, the other insults. Neither offering sane, rational solutions.

Like I said …

Why would anybody waste their time offering sane rational solutions to an somebody like you who wouldn’t recognize one if hit over the head with it. Your idea of a sane rational solution is to agree with what ever sniviling nitwit crap you spew out.

Of course I agree with what I state. I’m correct. You can’t disagree unless you propose policies which make you sound like a nutcase, but you don’t like it because you are scared of moving forward. To you, the past is a known entity. In your mind, it’s safe. While it does nothing but weaken this nation and will lead it to eventual ruin … you don’t care. You’re scared of the future..and the past appeases your cowardly nature.

But go ahead…offer up something you see as a sane, rational forward solution.

Flushy, in closing let me say, you’re a total delusional dumbass.

Uh, excuse me, may I slide in here and get a word in edgewise. . . thanks. My dear, dear Flashy, you have once again managed to boast, rant and rave, condemn and insult and make point after point that everything that is wrong with our country is totally to blame on one political party or an ideology – conservatism/libertarianism. That is in its true self overly if not outrageously toxic to your state of mind, are they not? With that form of locked down unrelenting determination to degrade everyone that steps outside your circle of rational thought, well, then should you expect nothing more than gleeful agreement with everything you say? If that is your expectation should it not have become rather apparent that unfortunately your stretch for that golden ring simply will never be quite far enough? There have been previous posts of mine that I have asked the same of you, your solutions, as that which you asked of Robert and Jay. There have been several others that have posted the same request for your well founded solution/s to our country’s problems also, yet no, up to this point there has been nothing well founded in rational logic and presented for further debate. Nothing more offered other than what I mentioned above. It only leaves myself, and many others I’m sure, confident in recognizing your train of thought and extremely well embedded ideology. Progressivism and moderates have been overtly involved in the political arena much longer than you’ve been twitching your nose in anger. With that I bid you farewell and please, fear not, I shan’t waste anymore time with you. Yet I’m sure you shall continue to provide many of us with a good amount of laughter in the days and weeks to come.

What the hell war did the US ever win?

I, the real ‘James’ agrees with 47D.

Our weakest single carrier group could lay waste to Iran.
The article is about how we project ourselves to the world.
Worlders,cant make you think you are losing power witout making you seem weaker.The joke is that you buy into it.
The Pentagon,is busy trying to keep our interests vital in the minds of the populace,versus letting us think that we will be subservient to the worlders.That is all.
If our carriers had been in port during Pearl Habor,we’d likely be speaking Japanese right now.Food for thought.
-CC.

cc,
I’m kinda lost in what you’re saying. “Our weakest single carrier group could lay waste to Iran.” Yes, one carrier group could do a lot of damage – no doubt. But laying waste to Iran, uh, not quite. One carrier group has one hell of a lot of fire power but not quite to that level. Unless of course the sub that is attached to the group launches it’s nukes? And that is way, way out there as an action that would be taken.
“Worlders can’t make you think you are losing power without making you seem weaker. The joke is that you buy into it.” Uh, OK, I’m buying into what? The worlders are making me think that we’re weaker? Isn’t making much sense – please explain further.
Insofar as the Pentagon “trying to keep our interests vital in the minds of the populace, versus letting us think that we will be subservient to the worlders.” has lost me too. When has the Pentagon, presumedly the Joint Chiefs, decided that this or that is what we need to do and do it whether directives have or have not come out of the Oval Office? Even the Joint Chiefs have to answer to the Commander in Chief – liked or not liked. The primary job of the Pentagon is to do what they are directed to do – they can’t just up and decide on their own. They may prepare ahead but they can’t implement anything without clearance from above. Keeping our interests vital isn’t so hard to understand I suppose – the movement of oil through the Strait to avoid major market shifts if it were blocked for a while. But the populace on a whole surely isn’t that stupid and can understand quite easily that they would be chucking out a much higher price for gas. Being it as it may, to what advantage do actions of this sort give the worlders? I’m not sending an arrogant backlash, simply not following what you mean clearly.

Robert – are you talking about the Wasp class assault carriers? Still the wrong bow profile. There are 8 Wasp class assault carriers and one Tawara class carrier active. It is possible that the one pictured is of the Iwo Jima class but no Iwo Jima class ships are in active duty, all have been decommissioned. But it seems to be missing the port side midship elevator visible on Iwo Jima class ships. It might be the HMS Ocean assault carrier, but I am not familiar with the profile.

lol there is no difference between the 2 major political parties they work for the same world elite, this is why they talk different games going in and then turn and do different from what they say when elected, they want the same things “control” they are puppets, and the puppets are not only here, there all over the world, in every Government, this war will happen not because of Osamabama or the Iranians, it will happen because this is what the puppeteers want, and the reason it hasnt started in an all out attack is because the puppet masters havent given the “ok yet” they know they dont have the support of the people, i see this dragging out till after the Bilderburg meeting this year, unless they do a false flag attack and blame it on the Iranians, that how we got into Afganistan and Iraq, and now look at Iraq the supposed “rebuilding contractors are in there buying everything up!!” also so i think this is a distraction to keep our eyes of what they are doing here

Exactly pm43, that’s what I said – both sides are working the middle and WE’RE the middle. As to what will come out of the next Bilderburg meeting is a true unknown. We can speculate forever but we really won’t know for sure. HA, Iraq is heading right back into what was expected – nothing new. BTW, if the Iranians were to shut down the Strait of Hormuz wouldn’t that action be a detriment to them financially also? If they shut it down then how do they ship out their oil? We wouldn’t have to fire one shot, simply block anything coming out of their ports and then sit and watch what happens internally. Can they actually afford it, financially and even more so, politically? The people of Iran aren’t overly happy with their radical government. That was proven last year,remember?

Ron Paul just wants us to surrender before the war starts

Ron Paul is NOT a Republican in belief; he is a Republican ONLY because a hard line Libertarian, which he is, could not get elected dog catcher in this Country. If you have anything after your name other than a “D” or an “R”, you’re just wasting your time and money running for office.

Go away. Come back when you have something of consequence to say.

If you applied that to everyone on this site, only us Moderates and Progressives would be posting here.

What was in error? You have half the wack’d right yelling about Wag to Dog and it’s a setup, you have the other half saying it’s a sell out appeasement.

The sole contribution as far as anyone can tell from the TPers and robotic right is they like to complain, fear, and hate. Fear hate and ignorance..the TP Trilogy. Or we have the American taliban segment.

Interesting if you read the posts…with few exception, the wacked Right posters here offer no solutions but crazed concepts guaranteed to bring this nation to its knees.

Flashy:OMG….it’s saber rattling and Wag the Dog for re-election if Obama starts to position defenses, show force and play international realpolitik. It’s appeasement and being a secret Islamic if he doesn’t move forces. We have a hige budget deficit, the milittary is taking the largest portion of our budget and the hawks are saying as they always do…it’s not enough. But gawd forbid we reduce the military expenditures to configure to a new world out there. (Notice when the USSR went away, all of a sudden we had a new enemy requiring more military growth?)

I know! Got it ! Obama is positioning those aircraft carriers so in a sudden move, he can turn them over to the Iranians and together he and the Ayatollahs can take over the owrld’s oil supplies and force Islam on everyone !

That’s rather interesting Flashy, you have no problem swallowing the conspiracy theory when it is attached to Bush/Cheney, yet you find it inconceivable that Obama would somehow be exempt, soar above it all. Do you honestly believe that one man has such capabilities? Who do you think placed your God in office? Tinkerbell?

“Do you honestly believe that one man has such capabilities? Who do you think placed your God in office? Tinkerbell?”

1. Bush/Cheney cheating, manipulating, corrupt and graft ridden lying us into war with Iraq … that’s not a conspiracy theory. That’s just fact. Plain cold hard fact. What that admin did to this nation, both domestically and foreign, to this day I cannot understand why they aren’t universally spit upon and publically reviled every time they go outside their armed villas.

2. 66,760,924 people ut President Obama in office. Something the wacked Right want to deny every day and overturn the want and will of those people. Fact is fact, if it weren’t for the policies this president instituted in the beginning months of his administration, we’d be in a far more world of hurt than we have now as we rebuild from the catastrophes of the Right.

And if you don’t like it..fine. Move somewhere else. We, the Moderates and progressives, have work to do cleaning the mess up y’all gave us.

Flashy:1. Bush/Cheney cheating, manipulating, corrupt and graft ridden lying us into war with Iraq … that’s not a conspiracy theory. That’s just fact. Plain cold hard fact. What that admin did to this nation, both domestically and foreign, to this day I cannot understand why they aren’t universally spit upon and publically reviled every time they go outside their armed villas.

Yes, Bush/Cheney lied, and manipulated us into a war with Irag! How is that, not, a conspiracy? By your written accusation aimed at Bush and Cheney you have given the proper definition of conspiracy. Yet you say, it’s not a conspiracy, it’s a fact. But according to webster’s definition of conspiracy: A secret plan by a group to do something unlawful or harmful : a conspiracy to destroy the government, what you claim Bush/Cheney perpetrated, was in fact, a conspiracy!

There are also different types, or models of conspiracies:

1. Cabal, an association between religious, political, or tribal officials to further their own ends, usually by intrigue

2. Conspiracy (civil), an agreement between persons to deceive, mislead, or defraud others of their legal rights, or to gain an unfair advantage

3. Conspiracy (crime), an agreement between persons to break the law in the future, in some cases having committed an act to further that agreement Conspiracy (political), the overthrow of a government.

So then, according to Webster’s definition of conspiracy(s), and yours, our Government conspired, or engaged, covertly, or conspired against the American people. And that, is a fact!

You say: What that admin did to this nation, both domestically and foreign, to this day I cannot understand why they aren’t universally spit upon and publically reviled every time they go outside their armed villas.

Do you honestly believe that two men have such capabilities? Who do you think put them in office, Tinkerbell?

sounds like you are coming from a communist dictator, collectivist, authoritarian, country. Need a ticket to get back there?

You’re correct. My thoughts were along the lines of a conspiracy being unable to be proven.

As to whether two men could do this…and your question as to who placed them in office. yes…two men could (and did) do it. Who put them in office put them there so they would be able to do it.

You mean just like what happened in Iraq!

Eric,
All I’m saying is that Iran has tossed out it’s threat that it will close the Strait of Hormuz to disrupt oil to Europe, the U.S. and the rest of the world. Well, as usual, that’s saber rattling – have they not done it before? – and in return we scoot a couple carriers in that direction to rattle back. We’ve done it before – example, think back a bit, China had mustered its missile frigates close to Taiwan and was pushing the edge of the envelope in that regard, saber rattling, correct? What did we do in response? At that particular, specific time, my son was stationed aboard the USS Nimitz and they were in the Persian Gulf keeping an eye in the air over Iraq. They got called out and headed to Taiwan at flank speed all the way. Why? Saber Rattling in return. What came of it? The Chinese pulled back and that was it. So, this may be a much more contentious problem but as I said, with the presence of two, three or however many carrier groups we put in the region it is more than likely going to subside in importance since the Iranians aren’t quite as dumb as they may be thought of. Their navy would not hold an advantage and they know that. You should too. Are we planning on attacking Iran in the not so distant future? As you, I have no earthly idea. I simply, yet rigorously pray that we not get ourselves mixed up in another idiotic waste of our military.

The ‘old, old, old,’ USS Enterprise , is just cannon fodder… A line in the sand, if you will… Another Tonkin Gulf style, excuse to go to war. Nobody can complain, if we’re just defending ourselves, right ? Don’t get me wrong, I’m a veteran.& totally support our troops ! But , I’ve been around the block, a time or two & no longer trust , those who run things , anymore ! I Love my Country, but, I Fear my Government !
Ron Paul has the right ideas… We need to take away, the power, from the ‘Military- Industrial Complex, that outgoing Pres. Eisenhaur warned us about !

“But , I’ve been around the block…”

And you’ll be waiting around the block to get gasoline if Iran closes the Strait. This has nothing to do with establishing a pretext for war, it has everything to do with keeping the flow of oil uninterrupted.

Tonkin Gulf my a$$!

No I think you are both missing the point.Could be these carriers are being set up.Obama is out to weaken this country every way he can.

Iran has to use the Straits of Hormuz to receive goods also. They have to export oil and import gasoline so I believe this is all a bluff. They would be shooting themselves in the foot by any blockade. Since China receives one third of it’s oil from Iran then they would be cut off also. They should be willing to put pressure on Iran to keep the Straits open for their own good. I personally don’t see a need to go to war with Iran besides their Navy is weak compared to ours and this is more bluster than a necessary endeavor.

Did you ever think that China may take up for Iran because it would be in there best interest so they just may the United States to back off or else . Whatever you may think i believe China can put a boot in our A$$ if not even if we win there well not be much left and who well be the blame ? It well be all over America kissing the A$s of the zionist . Henry Ford seat in 1920 that the jews were trouble Read the book ( The International Jew )

Is that all you ever do is spread your anti-Semitic hatred?

You are a poor excuse for a human being.

Are they? Iran has a number of old Soviet-era diesel submarines. Before you laugh about how antiquated that is and how vaunted the U.S. Navy’s modern ships are, keep in mind that when a diesel sub switches to the battery for propulsion, the boat becomes a “hole in the water.” When my old boat played wargames with the Canadian Navy’s diesel boats, we had a heck of a time trailing them. In fact, they had to beat on the hull with wrenches every so often just so we could find them.

Now, all it would take is an Iranian sub launching two torpedoes at that aircraft carrier and it’s either sunk or disabled. Sure, that sub will soon be at the bottom itself, but all aboard will be “martyrs” and we’ll be down a multi-billion dollar aircraft carrier and a score or more of million dollar plus aircraft. A win-win for Iran.

Thanks for the interesting story. The Straits of Hormuz is only 21 miles wide and the shipping route is only two miles wide. Any ship the size of a carrier that is sunk will do serious damage to the world of oil. Iran would be cutting it’s own throat and become a bigger pariah to the world economy. Thus turning more nations against it so I would call that a lose/lose situation for them.