Saudi Schools Teach Extremism

December 27, 2011 by Sam Rolley

Textbooks used to teach Saudi Arabian children go beyond the basic reading and writing that Western schoolchildren are accustomed to; youngsters in the kingdom are learning to cut off the hands and feet of thieves, kill homosexuals and work toward the complete annihilation of Jewish people.

The textbooks, many of which issued for the 2010-2011 Saudi school year, teach 9th and 10th graders that women are weak and irresponsible and homosexuals should be put to death “because they pose a danger at society.” The books also encourage jihad. One text reads in part: “The hour (of judgment) will not come until the Muslims fight the Jews and kill them. … There is a Jew behind me come and kill him,” according to Fox News.

Ali Al-Ahmed, director of the Institute for Gulf Affairs, told Fox the textbooks are both a Saudi and an American problem. “If you teach 6 million children in these important years of their lives, if you install that in their brain, no wonder we have so many Saudi suicide bombers.”

In 2006, Saudi Ambassador to the U.S. Prince Turki al-Faisal vowed that the country was eliminating the hate-teachings in its educational system, but there is no evidence that the country has or intends to change the violent texts.

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Michael Hardesty

Carlucci, my arguments refuted you on the topic that you brought, wholesale racist condemnation of an entire people.
Who cares about your gender ?
LibertyTrain, are you Carlucci’s trained dummy ?
Michael Hardesty

Love of life, Hit The Deck, when you advocate the genocide of a whole people ?
You are a Gingrich racist and your comments should not be allowed here.
hitthedeck

We are the only country in the world that can choose a battleground to war against an ideologically driven people that choose to join forces with others that travel from many different countries to join them in an endless battle. The difference between them and us is their joy in death and our love of life. This war will never end unless the teachers of the koran ideologically are permanently terminated.
s c

Get off the train tracks, kids. For those who try to think out of the box, consider the possibility that the omniscients who write textbooks for public schools probably do the same for the Saudis. Here, young ones up through high school are indoctrinated to love the current fearless leader, keep quiet about every topic that is food for conversation and NEVER criticize Uncle Scam [aka God].
In a Saudi school, God is afoot in that country, little boys and girls are trained to hate ‘certain’ people and anyone who sees a religious leader as less than perfect is guilty of being an infidel.
The same ‘guiding hand’ that teaches one society to obey ‘God’ teaches the other society to hate God and keep Him out of school(s).
No wonder we’re ‘friends’ with the Saudis. As I recall, we’re still trying to suck up to them. It’s almost enough to conclude that someone is trying to tell us something.
Relax. Everything is beautiful – as long as you don’t think. Take your government-blessed pills. Chill out. Fearless leader loves you, as long as you love him.
Michael Hardesty

Carlucci, that is the only first class happening that you will ever see.
You are a tenth rate nonintellect and anti-Semitic trash as 99% of all Semites are Arabs.
Go back under your rock.

Jibbs

What a jerk, enough of the name calling.

Michael Hardesty

Jibbs, I stated the truth and too bad that you can’t deal with it.

Carlucci

Michael Hardesty, I don’t understand what your post means. I never said I was against all Arabs. Some of my dearest friends are Arabs; they are just not Saudis. Have you ever lived in the kingdom? Until you have first hand knowledge of them and the way they live, then please shut up.

Your rant is typical, and what I would expect from an ignorant liberal ass hat.

Michael Hardesty

Carlucci, I’m not any sort of leftist or liberal and your rant made no distinctions between Saudis and other Arabs. I have always opposed the Saudi regime, which was created by the US under FDR, but you struck me as another anti-Arab racist. To condemn a whole nation is wrong.
As far as the posterior ad hominem goes you might want to smell your own, believe me it’s not pleasant.
Carlucci

I think your “smell” is quite enough for all of us, Mr. Ass Hat.
libertytrain

Carlucci – remarkable how he thought it was peachy keen to attack you first for no reason — go figure – kids….
Michael Hardesty

No reason, Liberty Train ? Did you even bother to read his original indiscriminate racist post ?
Carlucci, the only serious stink here has come from you.
Carlucci

Apparently Michael Hardesty didn’t bother to read my post carefully because he thinks I’m a guy. Now he has proven he is just a moron ass hat with baseless opinions.
libertytrain

good grief, what else can be said Carlucci – guys – go figure….

Bud Tugly

Ouch! You can disagree, but it is not cool to be so disagreeable.

Robert Smith

Another Car Talk listener.

Rob

gnafu

If the Saudi people kill off enough of their own people, we won’t have to worry about them as long as they stay in their corner of the world and don’t try to push their laws, beliefs and teachings on the rest of the world.
Bob Marshall

The majority of Iranians speak Persian, while the Saudis speak Arabic, the language of Islam.

bob wire

Oh really? Can they maybe understand each other like maybe a Mexican might a Cuban. A little bit, enough to get on buses and travel about?

Carlucci

The Saudis are barbarians and always have been. I lived there for several years and found their behavior appalling for the most part. Since they never experienced a Renaissance, they are one of the most ignorant and bass-ackward cultures on earth. They have no respect for life. Their women are considered to be chattel. I used to thank God every day that I was a western (American)woman. The interesting thing was that most Arabs from other nations (Lebanon, Egypt, Syria, etc.) hated the Saudis with a vengeance, as do many other cultures. My husband and I got bumped up to first class on a Thai Airlines flight when I yelled at a Saudi and his harem who tried to cut in front of us in the ticket line at the Bangkok airport. The ticket agents got a huge kick out of it and put us in first class. LOL – !! WINNING -!!

Jibbs

High Five!!
Hi Carlucci, hope all is well and you and your family had a Merry Christmas…..how goe’s the prepping?

Carlucci

Hey Jibbs – The prepping is going okay. Christmas was kind of a bust this year as myself and a few family members were down with a virus, and I missed spending Christmas day with my family. How was your Christmas with your family?

http://liberyalearts john p.

HEY LOOK WHAT WE HAVE IN THE WHITE HOUSE . OBAMA WAS RAISED BY
THE SAUDIS . THIS IS WHY HE BOMB LIBYA. THE SAUDIS TOLD HIM TO .NOT
ONLY THAT THIS IS WHY HE HAS BEEN TRYING TO BREAK OUR COUNTRY .
WHY DO YOU THINK EVERY THING HE HAS DONE COST THE TAX PAYERS A LOT
OF MONEY.AND PLAYS THE BLAME GAME ON CONGRESS . AND LOOK WHAT HE IS DOING WITH ISRAEL . HE IS A MUSLIM THE SAUDIS CONTROL HIM WATCH OUT
IRAN .HE WILL GO OVER THE HEADS OF CONGRESS TO BOMB IRAN NEXT .

eddie47d

You blew it John for Obama was not raised by the Saudis. So stop with your silliness. I believe Reagan and Bush also wanted to bomb Iran so why did you cleaverly leave that out. Get our military out of the Middle East and keep the bombs on our soil for defensive purposes.

bob wire

You know eddie, if they can imagine it, Obama is guilty of it. No matter what it is!

For a guy that is not so smart , lazy, takes a lot of vacation and don’t do anything, he sure get blamed for a lot.

It defies any logic, he’d have to be, Einstein,Bill Clinton,Daffy Duck and Speedy Gonzales all rolled into one.
eddie47d

LOL Bob

ArkansasRebel

Arguing with an idiot merely lowers oneself to the same level. May I suggest we stop giving Robert a forum for his drivel by ignoring his comments?

vic

Thank you!! i was just going to say that. I could care less if Robert is a muslim apologist and lies to make his points. Let him convert since he loves it so much. He can’t be bothered by the facts anyway.

Michael Hardesty

Vic, you have lost the argument so I can see why you wish to bow out as Robert has cleaned your clock.

Michael Hardesty

Arkansas Trailer Trash you have described yourself to a T.

bob wire

Well Sir, I can’t say that I’m surprised but I’d like more the just Fox News word that these text school book exist and are in use today.

I would think that you would too. This needs more research and if proven so what might could be done about it.

James

Whee have you been for the last 1400 years?

bob wire

Hmm? well Sir, I only been around 63 years and cannot speak for a time span of 1400 years. In that short period of time, I’ve leaned that Fox New tends to take liberties with facts and embellish for purposes only they can account for.

Implied, inference statement and half truths are common and many requiring prudence on the part of all viewers.

As far as where I’ve been, ~ while world traveled, I have not made it to a Saudi school room or any Muslim nation for that matter and have no knowledge other then hear-say and factual accounts written by people with a lesser bias and no ax to grind.

“The textbooks, many of which issued for the 2010-2011 Saudi school year, teach 9th and 10th graders”

It is disturbing to hear of such things and believe it important to verify such statements.

This thread posting offered hangs by a thin thread and really needs more support. As no reference other then a Fox News interview and a “Director” of an Institute was offered.

“Ali Al-Ahmed, director of the Institute for Gulf Affairs, told Fox the textbooks are both a Saudi and an American problem.”

firefight

This should provoke some thought with all of us. Understanding that it was Saudi Muslim extremists who pulled off the attack on 911, why aren’t we at war with the Saudi’s? After all, we went after the Japs when they bombed Pearl Harbor. Could it possibly be because our oil and other business interests are too important to our elitists? Wouldn’t want to upset that delicate balance, would we? Isn’t it interesting that just after the Twin Towers hit the ground, all airplanes in the U.S. were grounded, except the one which allowed the Saudi royal family to high tail it out of the country. The American people need to wake up and understand that the Saudis are NOT our friends and never have been. Their agenda is the same as that of Iraq, Iran and Afghanistan. In fact, the Saudis are funding terrorism throughout the world while they sit back unscathed and manipulate. Sorta like our Government does. Still, our people are not blowing up people all over the world. The Koran advocates that lying and deception are acceptable in achieving their goal of World domination. Wake up American. This is the “thief in the night” that he bible speaks of.

vic

Tho I agree w/ much of what you say, the arabs used in 9-11 were manipulated by the CIA and the scripture yr referring to “like a thief in the night”, refers to the Lord when He will gather up his people and take them away before the start of the 7 year Tribulation. the LameStreamMedia will probably blame t on ufo’s.
Richard Pawley

Well said, but don’t worry, we are on the precipice of the greatest change our nation has ever experienced. The Living God has revealed to many individuals from various groups and denominations of believers that He has about had it with the ways of man and that His hand of judgement will soon be felt upon the earth, especially in this country where we make a mockery of laws, and marriage, and everything else.

There are many good people in the United States but they too will be affected by the coming chaos and collapse, the coming fighting (“wars and rumors of wars”) and famine. Perhaps we can forestall this a bit if we throw out all the progressives in Congress (democrat and republican) and the find a president who cares more about the United States than his own political career, although I cannot say who that might be.

John Adams, president and thinker, was a believer in Jesus Christ and he said, “There are two ways to conquer and enslave a nation. One is by the sword. The other is by debt.” More recently the Living God has said, “MY HAND OF JUDGEMENT WILL SOON BE FELT BY ALL, SOME MUCH MORE THAN OTHERS. FEAR NOT!” So my advice would be to stop squabbling among yourselves. Even the New Testament says something along the lines of let the good man continue in his good and the evil man in his evil. God is going to shake the world so that all will know that He is God, the great “I am that I am!” and He will separate the wheat from the chaff.

Although it may not always seem like it, nothing escapes God’s eye and He really is in charge, though with this free will He has given us, our own bad decisions and choices and beliefs often tend to make us think otherwise. We are living in fascinating times, not the end of the world (though it may well seem like it – the next two decades). Vote wisely in November, and live wisely. Follow the commandments and if you want to change the world (and yourself) then pray often for guidance and wisdom, and may God bless all who read this.
Michael Hardesty

FDR set up Pearl Harbor to get us into a war that 80% of the American people opposed and dummies like you bought the Party Line.

daniel

According to the law of moral relevance or equality this is all perfectly acceptable. After all what makes our belief system superior to Sharia? If it is acceptable in Arab countries should it not be acceptable in this one as well? There you have it. The beginning of the morality equivalence argument of law, customs, and morality all rolled up into one. These are the same statements being made in colleges everyday around this country.
Now, for the real ugly part. What are you doing about it? You can complain to regents and deans all you want but that will be a losing proposition from the start. How many are teaching the children on how to think rather than what to think? I dare say that “is the teachers’ job”. In other words it is not being done. Unless we teach our children how to come up with an answer on their own then there is only going to be a matter of time before this type of material will become acceptable. After all all moralities are equal as are all customs. Since we are a nation of immigrants then it will be only a matter of time before Sharia Law is imported into our judicial system.

http://HOTMAIL Trainman

Daniel you are so right and we’ll have a hard time stopping it unless we start now and fight tooth and nail.. All most remember all those riots and protest back in the 60′s and 70′s at colleges well folks those miss guided kids are now the ones teaching our kids in our schools in cluding colleges. We also got them in Government now and their called COMMIES.
jbrimmage@hotmail.com

for history related explantions…..please read the TREATY OF TRIPOLI.
Michael Hardesty

Sure just like the Jewish immigration brought Talmudic law ?
Or the Catholic immigration brought Papal law ?

John Salizzoni

This is what happens when schools indoctinate instead of teach. Our school system is as guilty of social indoctrination as the Saudi or any other since the invention of the Soviet Union.

Capitalist at Birth

Robert Smith is a good example of that.

Ted Crawford

True Capitalist. I’m glad I followed Will Rogers and didn’t allow my education to be influnced by my schooling!
s c

Capitalist, stormtrooper ‘r’ is a classic example of what is so wrong about not taking any time to compensate for an antisocial attitude and a miserable ‘education.’ In WWII Germany, stormtrooper ‘r’ would have made a fine National Socialist [aka Nazi]. Like fuhrer, like stormtrooper.
Unfortunately, he has much in common with all other WWII German National Socialists (no uniform – not yet). Sift the rhetoric and understand the depth of depravity of the deeds, people. America defeated Nazis in WWII. WHY endure it or pamper it NOW?
Michael Hardesty

Robert Smith is extremely intelligent and if Ayn Rand, whom I knew, were still alive she would agree with him.
Robert Smith

Thank you. I’ve read much of her stuff.

I’ve also read that she was a big supporter of Barry Goldwater.

Now THERE was a Conservative. He had no need for sniffing crotches to see what anyone is doing in their private lives. IOW, he was pro-choice and didn’t care about gays in the military. Today he would be called a “liberal.” (I imagine he would be proud of that based upon an HBO documentary I saw. The trailer is at: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zRq-gelZFgg

Rob

Sirian

Unfortunately that is true John S. It is frightening as to the level “indoctrination” is taking place here in our own country while most parents aren’t fully aware of it. With that, what can we look forward to to occupy the halls of Congress in the next twenty, thirty, forty years? How many even think about it let alone take the time to actually look into it? Very few.

Robert Smith

Sirian says: “It is frightening as to the level “indoctrination” is taking place here in our own country while most parents aren’t fully aware of it.”

Sure is frightening watching all those right wingers trying to get “intelligent design” into our schools.

Rob
vic

as if pushing the evilution Lie is more acceptable. can you name an example in the natural world where Life creates itself? can you name an example where an explosion was seen to create something as complex as DNA or the human brain? do you really believe that in Nowhere and Nowhen, Nothing exploded and created Everything? where does Time come from? where does Matter come from? since you seem to think you can answer these questions you are either God or the wisest evilutionist in history.
Michael Hardesty

Vic, you can’t even spell evolution. And it’s an accepted scientific fact, not a theory. Existence comes first, not consciousnes, which is a manifestation of existence. If you posit a ‘God’ then who created ‘God’ ?
It’s better to start with what we know exists, namely existence,
and existence is all that exists. It’s the basic axiom.
Bud Tugly

“and God said: “Let there be light” ” – The Big Bang

Once one closely examines how species have changed over the millions of years of existence on our planet, evolution is obvious. Even when one looks at technology, its evolution mirrors natural evolution. Note how the stealth fighter evolved from the Wright Brothers plane. Each iteration slightly more capable than the previous. I am not denying God’s role in creation, just saying that evolution is one of the many techniques the Supreme Being used as time is not a factor for God as it is for us mortals.

Don’t forget that the authors of the Bible had no access to any scientific knowledge. They were wise, brilliant, and possible inspired by God but had to explain their perceptions of profound truths in terms they could comprehend. If one looks closely at science and cuts through fundamentalist dogma that can impose ignorance on religion, one sees that science and religion are not all that at odds with each other. they both explain the phenomenon of existence. The difference between secularists and those of faith is they perceive a different cause for existence. secularists believe that a random accident of primordial chemistry began life on earth. The more science discovers the more I see the hand of a vast intelligence at work and the exquisite beauty of creation accomplished by means beyond mortal comprehension.
bob wire

Hmm, Time started like the starting of a new clock that was once only metal and wood.

As soon as there can be an accounting of “Time”, the consecutive happening of events, there is time.

And evolution is not “theory” but recorded factual information.

Why would man have to contend with wisdom teeth as we find today they require removal for room in the jawbone of modern man. Modern man has developed a smaller lower jam as his diet now cooked and not requiring the heavy chewing of roughage.

The information that supports evolution today is staggering and too question it places you in a league all your own and far outside any main stream of thought.
Robert Smith

Bud posted: ““and God said: “Let there be light” ” – The Big Bang”

And then there is the Zeiss instrument in the Smithsonian. A single swirch and the universe is there.

I knew the guy who threw the swirch. Was he god? Nope. Nice guy, but not god.

Rob
daniel

What is even more fun Robert is watching all of those darwinian and post darwinian theories fall by the wayside. Have you actually checked the opposition arguments for intelligent design. Have you checked out the odds of evolution mathmatically? There is a study done by MIT if you would like to begin. Have you checked out the age of the universe and also the laws of thermodynamics? I doubt it as you have not made the time. You trusted an education system with an agenda. If you are going to question things then why not question authority properly instead of shouting into the wind.
Michael Hardesty

There are no arguments for design, intelligent or otherwise.
It’s pure nonsense spread by ignorant Know-Nothings.
Robert Smith

daniel asks: “Have you actually checked the opposition arguments for intelligent design.”

Sure have. I followed Tammy Kitzmiller, et al. v. Dover Area School District, et al. Remember, that’s where the right wingers tried to get intelligent design into a science class.

From September 26, 2005 to November 4, 2005, trial was held before Judge John E. Jones III, a conservative Republican appointed in 2002 by George W. Bush.

The right wing LOST big time.

Those right wingers on the Dover school board were off the board next election. The teachers, the students, the judge, and finally the PEOPLE of Dover rejected the intelligent design garbage.

If you want some insight to evolution may I suggest: “Your Inner Fish: A Journey into the 3.5-Billion-Year History of the Human Body” It’s by Niel Shubin and available at your local library and Amazon (http://www.amazon.com/Your-Inner-Fish-Journey-3-5-Billion-Year/dp/0375424474)

From that Amazon page: “Neil Shubin, a leading paleontologist and professor of anatomy who discovered Tiktaalik—the “missing link” that made headlines around the world in April 2006—tells the story of evolution by tracing the organs of the human body back millions of years, long before the first creatures walked the earth. By examining fossils and DNA, Shubin shows us that our hands actually resemble fish fins, our head is organized like that of a long-extinct jawless fish, and major parts of our genome look and function like those of worms and bacteria.”

Rob
Sirian

RobertSmith,
Hummm, neither I nor John S. said anything about “intelligent design”, wasn’t even thought of on my part, so how did you manage to come up with that tidbit of lacking innuendo? Did you not read the comment that I had replied to? Obviously not, therefore, it merely opens a side door for you to embellish your misconceived comment on “intelligent design”. As to whether or not you agree or even have the wits to possibly consider it as at least a theoretical possibility is of no concern of mine. For again, that is not the issue of discussion. Please step back, read the preceding comments and stay on the correct subject matter.
Robert Smith

You were yammering about how muslums are teaching kids extreme views in schools as indoctrination.

Intelligent design is just such a flash point for right wing christians who want their christian views in American schools. Extremists will be extremists regardless of what the basic religion is.

Remember, science can land men on the moon.

Religion lands planes in buildings.

Rob
Robert Smith

Sirian proclaims: “Hummm, neither I nor John S. said anything about “intelligent design”, wasn’t even thought of on my part, so how did you manage to come up with that tidbit of lacking innuendo?”

On another side the brutal right wing christians want preying for their god in the public schools. (hmmmmm, is that preying a misspelling or something else;-)

If that ain’t forcing their religion on the kids… Even the kids of parents who are followers of loving gods or goddesses.

Rob
http://WND lawrence McLeroy

It’s more frightening to watch them trying to change the law of Biology to fit what they want, not what they believe, but what they want.

http://aol.com sean murrey ILLIniois

Dont forget they want ot take over this country and run it by Shara law.

Sirian

They’ve already accomplished that in the UK. Seems as if there have been instances of the same objective being attempted in a variety of different cities here at home.
Robert Smith

And I’ve seen some christians around here who believe that America should (and maybe is) be run by their version of a brutal christian god.

No thanks for the catachism to keep slaves docile. No thanks for the witch trials. The “christian” track record isn’t much better than the muslums when it comes to brutality. It’s only a matter of degree. But muslums being vicious is NO justification for christians to do so.

Rob

Jim

Tell me Robert Smith, is there ever a time when the life of another should be taken? I don’t know if you are married….but if someone was in the act of killing your wife and isn’t going to stop for anything, do you kill him? Do you maim him? Do you talk him out of it? Just when is it OK to take the life of another person?

Do we let people like Hitler continue to do the insane things they do? He would have been knocking at your door demanding you to do this or that and then take your wife and kids to do as he pleased…..WHEN DOES ONE STAND UP AND FIGHT FOR THE FREEDOM OF LIBERTY AND LOVE….FOR THE RIGHT TO LIVE IN PEACE IN OUR OWN PERSON AND BELONGINGS?

Muslims want to take Americas way of life away from all of us. They demand you believe like them or you die and they will kill you!!! When was the last time you heard a Christian demand you believe like they do or they will kill you??? When was last time you heard that kind of teaching come from Christians and crammed down the throats of students in public schools???

You Mr. Robert, are one of the most idiotic simpletons ever to leave a comment here! Please stop before you start to vocalize these idiotic thoughts to someone and prove to the world just how stupid you really are!!!
Robert Smith

Question asked: “Just when is it OK to take the life of another person?”

Whenever you or your loved one is in danger. I’ll extend that to the notion that it’s OK to kill a perp in the act of committing a crime where others are threatened. It isn’t just a right in our society for defence it is a responsibility.

Any more questions?

I’ll even answer one you didn’t ask…

Society has a responsibility to execute a murder to protect itself.

And finally for a justified war I’m all in favor of exerting as much military force as is necessary to assure America remains safe.

Oh, and one more thing. I’m not out to exterminate an entire religion simply on the basis of a few claims from extremists. Both muslums and christians have their extremists. THOSE elements must be attacked. But generally as best as I can tell both religions are relatively peaceful except for the ones that follow that brutal god.

Rob

Robert Smith

Muslums declare: “homosexuals should be put to death “because they pose a danger at society.”

And then there is that there Laviticus thing about gays being an abonimation.

Oh… And not suffering witches! That’s one too for the extremism books.

Let’s see, and where is that particularly brutal form of christanity different from muslums?

Rob

libertytrain

oh robby you should give the Christians a bit of a break from your silliness and go play on Muslim sites. No courage? I didn’t think so.

firefight

Robert Smith, Your comparison is not valid. The Christian faith has moved way past the point where you can compare Christianity to Islam. Simple point. Which group of people are blowing up and beheading everyone, the Muslims or the Christians? There is a vast difference, also, in calling homosexuality an abomination before God and advocating killing all of them.

Robert, what I really find offensive is when someone tries to justify what the Muslims are doing, in the name of Allah, by comparing their actions to passages from the Bible. Scripture passages and Muslim actions are two very different things. Today, Christianity is the living religion which allows us, as a country, to reach out to other countries in times of need. How about showing me another country that does one tenth as much to help the people and cultures of other countries and most of this aid comes from Christian organizations and caring Americans. When was the last time you heard of any Muslim group, radical or otherwise, reaching out to help anyone, anywhere on this planet?
Robert Smith

Posted: “Robert, what I really find offensive is when someone tries to justify what the Muslims are doing, in the name of Allah, by comparing their actions to passages from the Bible. ”

Oh, and I guess Dr. Teller, Dr. Gunn…

All dead in the name of that there right wing brutal christian god.

Does a reduced degree justify ANY killing in the name of religion?

Rob
Robert Smith

firefight asks: “When was the last time you heard of any Muslim group, radical or otherwise, reaching out to help anyone, anywhere on this planet?”

They have an equivelant to the Red Cross called the Red Crescent: http://redcrescent.org.my/drupal/

May I suggest you avoid general demonizations?

Follow my example about killing witches and gays being an abomination when you cite the flaws in others.

BTW, muslums are far more brutal than much of the world but the degree of evil does NOT make evil OK for christians. Sorry, it just doesn’t work that way in my book.

Rob
http://WND lawrence McLeroy

I’m not sure I understand the phase evil of the muslims verses the evil of christians? If I’m reading the same Bible you are, the christians have the right to protect the society in which they live.
The Malaysian Red Crescent is more or less financed by what country?
firefight

You just don’t get it. Where in today’s world are Christians and Jews beheading people and blowing them up? What did the “Red Crescent” do for the people of Haiti or any other country or people in the wake of disaster. You make no valid points. All you do is contend that Christians and Muslims are cut from the same cloth and that just doesn’t wash.
firefight

Robert, I agree with the point that evil is evil and the Muslims have the market cornered in today’s world. Oh, but wait, what about Michael Plumadore, and the little girl that was beaten to death with a brick and then hacked up into pieces by this neighbor baby sitter? Hey, that’s pretty evil too, but, we are not talking about one individual in America. We are talking about a group of people called Muslims and a group of people called Christians. If we go back in time to the Crusades, we will find a lot of atrocities committed by these guys as well. Only thing is, they are no longer doing it and this is the 21st century and we don’t need any more religious sects killing people for their God. If we have another religious war, it will be Christians and Jews fighting for THEIR right to religious freedom, not to annihilate all other religions. That IS the situation as I see it and I’ll bet you I’m not alone on this one.
Robert Smith

Firefight claims: “You just don’t get it. Where in today’s world are Christians and Jews beheading people and blowing them up? ”

So a bunch of violence by the Muslums gives the extremist christains a free pass in your eyes.

Yup, I get it. Evil is evil whether it is done by muslums or christians.

You won’t convince me that it’s OK for brutal christians to kill in the name of their god no matter how evil the muslums are.

Rob
eddie47d

Yes Christians are more civil than Muslim but we have plenty of religious cranks in the USA. Pat Robertson hates homosexuals and Muslims and is proud of it. He also endorses those Evangelicals who went to Uganda and told them to pass a law to kill homosexuals in the name of God. Since Robertson has millions of listeners I believe he has some influence in Americas thought process.

Iris

1. It is not a religion, it is a theocracy.
2. It would enslave half of the population of any country it ‘conquers’. (womwn)
3. It entices “followers” with promises of unbridled sex anywhere at any time and a bevy of virgins upon a spectacular death.
4. It clashes with everything we believe regarding governing, Sharia law would be THE law of the land.
5. It is an excuse to enslave and kill people.

Robert Smith

From Iris: “4. It clashes with everything we believe regarding governing, Sharia law would be THE law of the land.”

If I had a buck for everytime the extreme right calls America THEIR “christian” nation I could retire.

Again from Iris: “5. It is an excuse to enslave”

Did you know there was a caticism for slaves to help keep them docile? You can see it for yourself at: http://www.theliberatorfiles.com/a-catechism-for-slaves/

More: “and kill people.”

Yup, Dr. Tiller, Dr Gunn… I’m also sure that not suffering witches means killing them. Have you ever read the Maleius Malificarum?

Rob
Firefly

So who is this Dr. Tiller and Dr. Gunn that you keep holding up? What great thing or things did they do that makes you think they are heros of some sort?
daniel

What are you talking about and whose heroes?
daniel

oops posted wrong
Robert Smith

Goolgle them. They were murdered at the hands of reich wing “christians”.

Rob
http://WND lawrence McLeroy

Mr. Smith, are you saying every one calling themselves a Christian follows the Bible?
Robert Smith

From lawrence who asks: “Mr. Smith, are you saying every one calling themselves a Christian follows the Bible?”

I’m not a christian and want no part of defining them. When someone calls themselves christians I have no standard I’d compare them to with some exceptions.

I see that there are folks who call themselves christian like Bishop Spong (http://johnshelbyspong.com/) who others around here claim he is NOT a christian. Who am I to believe?

Generally Bishop Spong presents a loving version of christanity. I can respect that. Around here I’ve seen many brutal justifications for needless hate by those who call themselves christians. Even the killers have called themselves christian.

BTW, the christian version of the bible is often quoted from laviticus as a justification for hating gays. The bible also says one should not suffer a witch, IOW, it’s OK to kill witches. Looks pretty brutal to me.

But hey… If you can offer a central clearing agency to set standards for those who call themselves christian I’ll look at it. I also hear that there are peace loving muslums also, but I haven’t seen any proof of that anywhere.

Rob
Robert Smith

Firefly asks: “So who is this Dr. Tiller and Dr. Gunn that you keep holding up?”

From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Tiller: “On May 31, 2009, Tiller was shot through the eye and killed, by anti-abortion activist Scott Roeder, as Tiller served as an usher during the Sunday morning service at his church in Wichita.”

From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Gunn_(doctor): “Gunn was murdered in Pensacola, Florida by anti-abortionist Michael F. Griffin,[1][2][3] described by the New York Times as: “A fundamentalist Christian and a loner with a bad temper.”[4] Griffin originally claimed to be acting “for God”; his attorneys would later assert on his behalf that he had been brainwashed by another anti-abortion activist, John Burt.”

Both doctors were neither heros nor villens. They were simply doctors helping women.

They were both killed by “christian” extremists. There is NO way to justify their killings no matter how much muslums kill others.

Rob
Robert Smith

Why is this post awaiting “moderation.” It’s a pretty straight forward answer to a question asked with references.

Rob
libertytrain

you probably missed the many, many posts that have reminded the poster that multiple links or foul language is automatically destined for needs moderation by the built in filters of the site. Oh gosh even Mr. Livingston has posted that himself more times that I have fingers and toes.
Robert Smith

Hey lib….

There is no bad language in my post.

Rob
libertytrain

than if you have no foul language, as I mentioned above – you probably have/had multiple links – i.e. more than one…then you need to wait till a human approves it… it’s happened to all of us regulars more than once – so don’t take it personal – you’re not a special target – just caught by a website filter…
bob wire

I’m inclined to agree with most of your statements.

It’s early tribal laws used to keep a world of Bedouins, migrating sheep herders all sing off of the same sheet music in some effort to establish notions of law and order. To establish a mindset with commonly accepted and perceived values.

Any violations of these laws,considered an affront God himself and punishment prescribed forthwith.

(and while I’ve got your attention, we don’t approve of this and that either)

In small degree, you might say or see some comparison of Islam to Christianity but only if allowed to compare apples, oranges and pears. That they all are eatable fruit and grow from trees.

Over the centuries, much evil has been done in the name of God by most all religions, my knowledge of Hindu and Buddhist and their history lacking and I can’t speak for.

But let us understand, that the making of laws and the enforcement laws is only a “means to an end” and not absolute and not the only way to achieve a desired results. For if they did, we would not be having this discussion.

Rick

Dredging up ancient history – the crusades and/or the inquisition(etc.) and applying that to modern times in order to make a comparison is ludicrous. Where in modern times do you find this tye of extremisn except in the Muslim world? Shiites blowing up Sunnis, Sunnis blowing up Shiites, Muslims blowing up Catholics and all this in the last 5 days! And yes, I do have a degree in history.

Capitalist at Birth

The sat out the enlightenment.
Robert Smith

From Rick: “And yes, I do have a degree in history.”

Guess your version of history missed out on the Irish things that went on.

The bombings and murders at clinics in America aren’t a thing of the past but an ongoing effort by the highly misguided extreme right.

Might you be a supporter of Timothy McVay?

Horror comes from many roots.

Rob
vic

shows what you know, timothy McVeigh was a militiaman true(who can blame him in this screwed up country) but he was set up by the CIA, who blew up the OKC building and framed him. Who claimed to give the bombs to McVeigh? current Atty General Eric Holder, who is embroiled right now in ANOTHER false flag operation where the intent was to get high powered guns into the hands of the cartels, then arrest them and use it as an excuse to repeal the 2nd amendment. it didnt work out the way they planned and now he is close to being fired and arrested.
Robert Smith

vic says: “timothy McVeigh was a militiaman true(who can blame him in this screwed up country)”

Yup, looks to me like you are supporting him.

Is that a christian thing or just right wing?

Rob
Erik

Horror comes mostly from ignorance.
Michael Hardesty

Then you are as totally misinformed as most history majors.
Israel has killed far more Arabs since 1948 than vice-versa.
At 300,000 while expelling another 2,000,000 since late 1947
under Plan Dalet even before the state was declared in May, 1948.
US killed at least 2-3 million in Indochina alone and has sponsored mass murdering regimes from Indonesia to the Congo to Guatemala.
Christians in Germany killed 8 million of each other during the Thirty Years Religious wars between Protestants and Catholics.
Mao killed over 110 million and the Soviets 70-80 million, Pol Pot killed 3 million, half of Cambodia.
Sorry but which of these were Muslims ?
FDR’s criminal regime created Saudi Arabia and the US has backed it ever since. We need to end special relationships with BOTH Saudi Arabia and Israel.
This Rolley piece of selective condemnation belongs in a neoconman journal, not here.

Ted Crawford

There is clearly a vast gulf between declaring tham “an abomination” and advocating for their death. It’s simply Progressive spin to attempt to link the two!

Robert Smith

You haven’t heard of Brandon McInerney, have you Ted?

Rob
Greg

Yes we have. What you homosexuals did to those 14 year old boys at that school should wake you up, but it won’t. You pushed Brandon McInerney into a corner and he came out fighting. Your lesbian vice-principal, Joy Epstein forced those boys to take Larry’s Kings homosexual advances. When teachers complained to her about it she ignored the escalating problems for her own lesbian agenda. We know this story and on the stand Joy Epstein LIED!!! One teacher stated that she waved her finger against Brandon and forced him to take it. So screw you Robert. Brandon’s life is screwed because you all can’t take NO for an answer. You just keep digging and digging and forcing yourselves on people who don’t want you. Then you blame all of your woes on Christianity. Christians should stand back and let you and the rest of the homosexuals fight it out with the Muslims.
Robert Smith

Quit lying Greg: ” What you homosexuals did to those 14 year old …”

I’m not gay. I’ve posted that enough times on these boards it should be common knowledge.

I don’t need to be gay to stand up for gay rights.

I don’t need to be a woman to stand up for women’s rights.

I don’t need to be black…

Well maybe this time you will get the message.

BTW a jury of 12 took just 40 minutes to convict. That’s pretty clear that the evidence was condemning of the actions taken.

The kid was brought up in a right wing fundimentalist home and he just couldn’t take the notion of a gay person. He tried bullying, the victim stood up to him and he got shot for it.

If you are going to stick up for killing a gay with a gun in school you are no better than the muslums who are condemned for wanting to kill gays. It’s that simple.

Rob

Rob

daniel

Robert Robert, Robert. You are trying to vilify Christianity and yet you cite the Old Testament. Please check the New Testament ( which is where Christianity starts chronologically) where Paul is preaching to the Romans. He literally had his head on the line when he was preaching by the way. You might find grace and mercy. You might also check out various Christian outreaches to homosexuals as well. You might also find grace and mercy. Your snipings don’t stick when checked.

http://WND lawrence McLeroy

I think Christianity started in the Garden after the fall of Adam?

James

Robert, Muslims copied their moral code from the Old Testament.

http://marcum1@wildblue.net coal miner

James,

What moral codes?

Incest: The Unspoken Bible
Religion’s Puritanism needs no introduction, which is what makes these biblical sex stories so interesting. The Bible is no paragon of sexual probity. I reserve my …
http://www.usbible.com/Sex/incest.htm
James

Just because your moral code doesn’t agree with God’s, doesn’t alter what the Bible says.

JB

Give it up, Rob, you’re a lost soul, attempting in every way you can find to justify your mental state – -

Robert Smith

My mental state is that I’m not christian and don’t want to be. As long as there are some who want to make christanity a state religion, an American Taliban, I’ll resist.

Your religion is like sex, as it is for most people. If you want it I’m sure it is the greatest thing in the world. If you don’t want it it is rape.

Keep your brutal form of brutal christanity to yourself and I’m fine with it. Kill others, threaten others, and try to tell schools what to teach my kids and I’m there to resist.

Rob
Laurie Tudor

seem pretty intolerant for someone who expects tolerance from others. I am not a christian, but I am an American and fully support that America is in fact a christian nation. the founding fathers wrote that we would not have a national religion, not a freedom from religion. If you don’t beleave I can support that, but I wont fight Santa, the Easter bunny or god almighty.
Michael Hardesty

Actually they did believe in freedom from religion. Read Thomas Paine.
Robert Smith

Hey Laurie, you posted: “seem pretty intolerant for someone who expects tolerance from others.”

If not wanting to participate in a brutal form of christanity is intolerant I guess on that score I’m intolerant.

I’m also against murder, theft, rape, lying, and a bunch of other stuff. See, it is possible to oppose things that hurt society without being a christian. And! Being christian doesn’t make murder, theft, rape, or lying OK.

Rob

Greg

You should learn to spell “Leviticus.”

Robert Smith

Does it change the horror?

Have you eaten any cheesburgers lately? Isn’t that an abomination?

Go picket a Burger King.

Rob

LMinDesPlaines

While I would normally refrain from personal criticism, after having read many of Mr. Smith’s comments I have to surmise the man has a three-digit IQ–if you include the two decimal places! For the love of Pete, man, do you think, just once, you could present an opposing point of view based on intelligent analysis rather than spewing the usual Liberal inane hogwash?

Michael Hardesty

Des Plaines Object, you have just described yourself to a T. Robert Smith has had by far the most intelligent comments here.
The Old Testament is a pornographic, genocidal book that glorifies mass murder and tribal racism. And it is the real heart of The Unholy Bible.
I hold no brief for Islam but it’s an offspring of Judaism and Christianity. Christians are still murdering Christians in the Balkans and until mid-1945 Christians were killing each other by the millions in war.
John P, you are a fountain of disinformation. Obama is our worst President but he was never a Muslim nor was he raised by the Saudis.
Saudi influence is nothing compared to the Israeli Lobby, AIPAC, which controls both the Congressional and Executive Branches of FedGov.
Robert Smith

Stanford-Binet (Form L-M) IQ 137 +
Army General Classification Test (AGCT or GT) 145 +

The + is a plus, not a cross.

If you have to ask what Intertel is…

There, take that. If you can make bogus claims about reduced intellegence I can post also. Now, which one is real?

BTW, I’ve proven to samurai many times that I’m not a “moron.” Please don’t try that lie. The fact that I can sign in and navigate around here proves at least an average IQ of around 100.

Did you know that Eisenhour was allarmed that half of America was below average IQ?

Rob
libertytrain

rob you must be getting upset if you felt the need to post an IQ. Yepper, this will make you sad but it’s just about the same as mine – give or take 2-3 points…. oddly – the trouble is who cares? What does it mean on an anonymous site – Seriously who cares what we say we are – it doesn’t change or mean or prove anything about us.
Carlucci

libertytrain – do you ever wonder about people like Robert Smith who brag relentlessly about their supposed superior I.Q., yet they cannot even spell Eisenhower’s name correctly? To top it off, he cannot even be bothered to spell check.
libertytrain

I do get a kick out of it – and I do enjoy your posts and miss seeing you as we used to – I know you have a different job but I’ve so come to appreciate so many of you- have a wonderful New Year’s Eve. — hopefully virus free to make up for the Christmas illness!
Robert Smith

Posted: “who brag relentlessly about their supposed superior I.Q.,”

I have NEVER posted what MY IQ might be before.

Quit lying.

Rob
libertytrain

you remind me of a little kid, always doing that which you accuse others of doing but you do a little more loudly — that word lie is so 4th grade.
Robert Smith

It it is so point it out.

Please be specific.

Rob

Jim

Robert Smith stated:
“Muslums declare: “homosexuals should be put to death “because they pose a danger at society.” And then there is that there Laviticus thing about gays being an abonimation. Oh… And not suffering witches! That’s one too for the extremism books. Let’s see, and where is that particularly brutal form of christanity different from muslums?”

First, Robert, take the time to correct your spelling errors. Nothing says ‘Stupid and Lazy’ better than leaving misspelled words in comments!

Secondly, you quote Leviticus and then add it to the Christian faith as if they follow these laws. You obviously do not KNOW what you are talking about. All the law of the Old Testament was brought into a new Commandment by Jesus….and that is to Love God with all your heart, with all your mind, with all your strength; and to love your neighbor as you love yourself. You see, to love is the fulfillment of all the laws of the Old Testament, as taught by Jesus…and this is what is taught to Christians!!!

Now, classifying homosexuality as an abomination is no where near the same as killing homosexuals “because they pose a danger at society.” Our Constitution gives all of us the right to stand behind the convictions of our heart…and to even say what we believe. The facts are this: there is no scientific proof that people are born homosexuals….that being the case, somewhere along the line in a persons life a choice is made to be homosexual.

Also, the Old Testament is the history of the Hebrews not Christians. If you want to make comments about Christianity, I suggest you take the time to read the New Testament so you will KNOW what you are talking about!

Robert Smith

Last I heard “god hates fags” was a Westbourough BAPTIST church.

“that being the case, somewhere along the line in a persons life a choice is made to be homosexual.”

And when did you choose to be straight?

If someone offered you $3,000,000 to be gay for a night with another of your same sex would you do it to send your kids to college? Get a new home? Could you make such a choice?

I was faced with a clear choice when I was 18. I could be “gay” and not get drafted or follow another path (I actually enlisted in the Navy for four years instead of being shot at for to). Even having given up four years in the NAVY I couldn’t be gay. That’s not a CHOICE as you so glibly put it.

BTW, there is strong evidence that the mother’s hormone levels during the pregnancy can influence one’s sexuality. There is gene discovered for alcoholism yet either, although again there are signs that cimrcumstances can be predisposed.

How many alcolholics do you know who have died from it? Have you ever noticed how such generally runs in families?

Nope, being gay ain’t a choice.

Rob

Rob

Saudi Schools Teach Extremism

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