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Prison Nation

December 21, 2011 by  

Prison Nation

America has come to be more like North Korea than the America our fathers grew up in. The United States is not a country descending into totalitarianism. Totalitarianism, the police state, is here.

According to a recent study in the journal Pediatrics and reported in USAToday, one in three Americans will be arrested by the time they are 23. That’s up from 22 percent of youths that age 44 years ago.

Crimes leading to arrest in this age group range from truancy and vandalism to shoplifting and underage drinking to assault and murder. Criminologist Megan Kurlychek told the newspaper that localities handled many minor offenses more informally 40 years ago than they do now.

“Society is a lot less tolerant of these teenage behaviors,” she said.

In fact, it’s not just teenage behaviors society is not tolerating. Now elementary school children are charged with sexual assault over innocent hugs and kisses and assault when they get into fights on school grounds.

And with drug laws criminalizing possession of as little marijuana as a seed or stem, it’s easy to understand why there are more than 2.3 million people in American prisons.

According to a 2008 study by the Pew Center on the States, one in 100 Americans is behind bars. For blacks, the statistics are staggering. One in 15 black men aged 18 or older is behind bars. For blacks ages 20 to 34, the number is one in nine. Black women are three times more likely to be incarcerated than white women.

America’s rate of incarceration far outpaces countries like South Africa and Iran. For every 100,000 Americans, 750 are in jail. In Germany the rate is only 93 per 100,000.

In America, people can be fined and/or imprisoned for simply taking raw milk across State lines, selling “unapproved” rabbits, or uprooting a plant or draining a pond on their own property.

Now, Congress has passed and the President has signed legislation that designates America a battlefield in the War on Terror and subjects Americans to indefinite incarceration without a hearing.

Face it: America is now a prison Nation. And with America’s penchant for militarism and her people’s fondness of orators, Herr Hitler would feel right at home.

Filed Under: Conservative Politics, Freedom Watch, Government, Hot Topics, Liberty
Bob Livingston

is an ultra-conservative American who has been writing a newsletter since 1969. Bob has devoted much of his life to research and the quest for truth on a variety of subjects. Bob specializes in health issues such as nutritional supplements and alternatives to drugs, as well as issues of privacy (both personal and financial), asset protection and the preservation of freedom.

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  • Platoon Sergeant Chee

    The Prison Industrial Complex must be fed.
    The persecuting prosecutor must have wins.
    The compromising defense atty must sellout.
    The knowing judge must sit idly by.
    the deceived jurors must convict.
    You must be incarcerated.
    You must be exiled, and placed on the bureaucrats registry.
    You must be tortured, persecuted and shut up.

  • Lori

    Congress and their double-standards:
    Martha Stewart went to jail for a $30K inside trading. Congress & President is exempt for doing this.
    Obamacare: Every U.S. citizen MUST have insurance or go to jail, even if it’s lower quality coverage.
    Congress is exempt and receives the “cadillac plan”.
    Organic farmers go to jail. Genetically-engineered crops, known to cause diseases and outlawed in
    in some countries, must be used.
    Ft. Knox has been empty of gold for decades but if you get close to the building, you’ll be killed or
    put in jail.
    Reduce the personnel of our local law enforcement, shut down the police stations, let Americans get
    killed, cut the budget and prevent ICE to actually do what the agency should do.

    Are the FEMA prisons built throughout the U.S. for the actual criminals or for patriotic Americans?

  • Downunda

    Biden said the Taliban is not our enemy, then WHY are Americans subjected to indefinite incarceration witout a hearing???? That is a police state no double in my mind. Thank u congress for passing such a unconstitutional law.

    • Angel Wannabe

      Downunda__Bidens a blithering idiot!__

  • jerry

    Since every govt. agency, such as the DEA, EPA, etc, etc. have their own armed enforcement swat teams. What will happen to the American citizen when these are all combined against us? Not to mention all the potential armed 5th columns that could arise. Would this be Obamas private army he was telling us about?? Hunting rifles and handguns will not be a winning game.

    • cawmun cents

      The question then becomes,will that agent shoot his brother and sister down to perpetuate a failed system?
      If he/she will then where do their loyalties actually lay?Behind a gubment paycheck?Would you shoot down the righteously indignant,for a paycheck?That would subject you to being seen as a war criminal.
      The gubment is supposed to serve the people,not the other way around as you have been taught.
      The need to seperate reality from fiction here where we can educate ourselves is necessary.
      Someone taking the side of failed institutions will be subject to the mob when the change occurs.There will be no hiding.

      Would you want to face the wrath of the indignant,after the change?

  • Jeep

    I am only going to say this one more time about S 1867, the National Defense Authorization Act…READ THE CONTENT! Do not take the word of bloggers, anonymous emails or anyone else. This bill does not authorize indiscriminate incarceration of American citizens. What is wrong with you people?

    Section 1032 on “Requirement for Military Custody,” states plainly that, “the requirement to detain a person in military custody under this section does not apply to citizens of the United States.” Are you people able to comprehend the English language?

    Granted, Section 1031, relates to the use of the armed forces to detain covered people “pursuant to the Authorization for Use of Military Force.” But, it has a very narrow purpose of describing detention “under the law of war” of people who either participated in the terrorist attacks of Sept. 11, 2001, or is a member or “substantial supporter” of al-Qaida, the Taliban, or “associated forces that are engaged in hostilities against the United States or its coalition partners.”

    So go ahead and pursue your fear mongoring…or, realize the intent and the verbage is not now, or ever has been to arbitrarily lock up American’s in FEMA camps.

    • Angel Wannabe
      • Jeep

        Angel, I love you girl, but like I said DO NOT beleive what others say. For goodness sake, just read the bill! It is in plain English. I am not sure how to explain it any further than that. If the bill said something else, okay. But, my quotes are from the bill, not what someone else says it says. Nor do I need someone else to interpret it for me. I took English 101.

      • Angel Wannabe

        All do respect Jeep, if its all fear mongering then why did Rand Paul try to amend it, it was denied?

      • DaveH

        Who’s a terrorist? This isn’t a movie, Jeep, where we all know in advance who the bad guys are:
        http://www.cato-at-liberty.org/the-defense-authorization-bill-still-troubled/

      • DaveH
      • DaveH

        This link is from the Forbes article:
        http://www.lawfareblog.com/2011/12/does-the-ndaa-authorize-detention-of-us-citizens/

        Given, people, how much the Government has already run roughshod over the Constitution with the Drug Wars, and many other things, why would anybody think they wouldn’t greatly expand whatever innocent-sounding powers given to them in the NDAA?
        The Government Gang hasn’t respected the Constitution for many decades now.

      • Joe H.

        Jeep,
        All well n good, but remember, the GOVERNMENT gets to decide WHO is a TERRORST!!! They also get to decide who is a member of ANY GROUP!!! don’t get TOO comfortable!!!

      • danN

        Jeep, does the language ““associated forces that are engaged in hostilities against the United States or its coalition partners.” seem a little vague and wide open for interpretation…careful! English 101 is not the same as logic 101… nay argument can be made to make you look like a co-conspiritor (sp?)… No matter what your interpretation of the language…my question is why is there ANY such ambiguous language as such in this Defense Bill..Why is there any such language of military use against american citizens…there is more to this than you are seeing.

    • amarq

      One suggestion Jeep…Try not to swallow the hook…

      • Jeep

        Thanks for the advice…but, instead of fishing why don’t you try some reading…like the bill itself. Have a good day.

    • Angel Wannabe
    • http://personalliberty.com 1911man

      therein lies the rub, it mearly states the REQUIREMENT does not exist, it doest guarentee it won’t be done.

      • Jeep

        And, why do “they” need a law anyway? Under your assumption, since “they” could violate the law, then “they” could arrest you without a law anyway. Please, consider your response before posting.

      • eddie47d

        I believe your interpretation is correct Jeep although it should be taken with caution. That doesn’t make Ron Paul wrong either (Angel’s video)in challenging the interpretation. The Patriot Act was also set up to save us but turned out to do the opposite.The NDDA could be like those politicians who say one thing and then comes out and says, that is not what I meant.

      • Angel Wannabe

        eddie, not that we always agree, but anything Washington sets up for “Our Own Good” can be used against us!

      • Jeep

        Perfectly stated eddie. I am not a blind follower of the law, it’s proponents or of it’s detractors. My point is that there is always a need for vigilance, and facts.

      • http://www.boblivingstonletter.com/ Bob Livingston

        Dear Jeep,

        According to Mr. Obama, he does not need one. He can assassinate or detain upon his own whim.

        Best wishes,
        Bob

      • Jeep

        Thanks Bob for helping to prove my point. You’re exactly right, a runaway government would not need a law. I am only relating the bill as it is written, not as it has been interpreted. Stay vigilant, but there are not boogymen under every tree.

      • http://www.boblivingstonletter.com/ Bob Livingston

        Dear Jeep,

        No. They are operating out in the open.

        Best wishes,
        Bob

      • DaveR

        Until and unless Congress or the courts (Sup Ct) checks the actions of Obama (or any other federal official) they can do whatever they please. Thus far during the Obama Administration, I have not observed much checking going on. It remains to be seen what the Sup Ct will do with Obamacare. And most other actions, particularly those taken in the form of Executive Orders, are simply commented upon by the press corp and bloggers. And just like an unchecked bully or dictator, power will continue to accumulate to that unchecked authority, and that unchecked authority will grow bolder and bolder in his/its actions. Hitler and those who helped hoist him into full power is but one example.

      • Joe H.

        DaveR,
        Good point!! The problem is, how much damage can be done BEFORE the higher courts Issue those checks??? A person could lose their life!!!

    • Ret

      Detention of Enemy Combatants Act (Introduced in House) 109th CONGRESS 1st Session H. R. 1076 March 3, 2005
      (8) The term ‘enemy combatant’ has historically referred to all of the citizens of a state with which the Nation is at war, and who are members of the armed force of that enemy state. Enemy combatants in the present conflict, however, come from many nations, wear no uniforms, and use unconventional weapons. ***Enemy combatants in the war on terrorism are not defined by simple, readily apparent criteria, such as citizenship or military uniform. And the power to name a citizen as an ‘enemy combatant’ is therefore extraordinarily broad. (Emphasis added)*** I added these***

      “They’ve changed the label, but the substance has changed only a little bit,” Chesney said.

      Many human rights groups expressed dismay yesterday that the administration had not made a more radical change in tactics and policies.

      Tom Parker, Amnesty International advocacy director for terrorism, counterterrorism and human rights, said, “It’s symbolically significant that he’s dropped the term ‘enemy combatant,’ but the power to detain individuals within the ‘indefinite detention without charge’ paradigm remains substantially intact.”

    • http://www.boblivingstonletter.com/ Bob Livingston

      Dear Jeep,

      You are either a fool or a spokesman for the President or Congress. The key word to understand is “requirement.” Consult your dictionary for it’s meaning.

      Best wishes,
      Bob

  • cawmun cents

    The condition here in the U.S.is that we are far too lenient on criminal behavior.That is why the country-clubs we call prisons are full to the exploding point.
    Back in the day when they wore ball and chain,worked twelve hours a day,breaking big rocks into powder,then re-assembling that powder into a rock,so they could break it again,exsisting on bread and water,with no weight lifting,there was alot less recidivism.
    We are far too kind to criminals here.
    They are treated well so they get out and commit more crime and go back.
    In effect we are manufacturing something for the overabundance of lawyers in this country to do.All the while the victims of the crimes which the criminals perpetrate go largely unanswered,in ther quest for justice.
    Why?So that the Ivy League crowd can act as if they are benevolent,and instead create a system by which they can subjugate the public.What a delicious thing the tiny morsels of gossip and intrigue are for the media to toss to the masses.Those crimes for which we watch the daily news and feast on the spectacle of it all for.But the false wheels of justice turn continually never quite getting to the justice for which they exppound the desire to achieve.
    Yet we cannot see the forrest for the trees.
    It is a sham of epic proportion.
    Manufacturing continual criminals and more and more victims,the sole purpose for which makes it more convienient for the gubment to protect you from yourselves.
    Ha ha ha,you rubes.
    Now we must let criminals out of prisons,so that we can make room formore lawyers and more court cases.
    Morons…..when will we ever learn?
    -CC.

    • Karolyn

      You have it all wrong! If the criminals who are not hardened are re-educated and rehabilitated, they would not recommit. Do you really think it’s so good in jail? I don’t think so. In our local county jail in a case I know about, they would not even let a misdemeanor offender have a pair of reading glasses so he could read while he was there even though they were donated. They do not heat the place and they sleep on cold metal slabs. Have you ever been in a prison? I used to interview incarcerated women for a progtram I worked for; and believe me, it is no piece of cake in there!

      • Joe H.

        karolyn,
        About five years ago, there was an interview of some parolees who had been out about a month. One of them stated, in all candor “I’m gonna commit a crime to go back in. I had it better in prison than out here!” now what does THAT tell you???

    • Karolyn

      And then, on top of that, they can’t even get jobs with a record; so what else do they have to do but go back to crime.

      • cawmun cents

        I believe the wise man once said it best when he proclaimed,
        “There’s one thing that you dont understand…
        how I can just Kill a man!”-Rage Against the Machine
        Karolyn…what country do you come from?-CC.

      • eddie47d

        What planet do you come from CC? You are extremely bitter and can’t come to terms with your emotions. We all over react at times but it’s entrenched in you.

      • cawmun cents

        Apparently not the one where the criminals who could care less about rehabilitation,will get my sympathy.-CC.

      • eddie47d

        It has to be offered and followed up on to do any good. There has to be a team effort to make the change. Which includes the prison system,taxpayers and the prisoners themselves.

      • Joe H.

        eddie,
        how about the FACT, that most psycologists will tell you that Child molesters CAN NOT BE REHABILITATED??? what do you suggest then??? Just turn them loose on the unsuspecting children of the world??? how about we attach the death penalty to confirmed child molesters??

      • Angel Wannabe

        Karolyn, there is a couple ways to put a stop to the lack of jobs after a criminal record.(1)to not to get into trouble in the first place, stating the obvious.__2. Make it mandatory that criminals must go through a program designed to mainstream them back into society and try and find employers willing to take the risk. __Keep in mind here, you can lead a horse to water but can’t make them drink.
        Good for Psych.Graduates with an Entrepreneurial Spirit!

      • Karolyn

        Angel – Sounds like a good plan!

    • danN

      As I see it…there is a bout 550 criminals that should be incarcerated.

      • Angel Wannabe

        danN, Yepper, they’re ALL in Washington!

      • Joe H.

        danN,
        I agree with you on that, but I hope you aren’t saying that’s ALL that should be incarcerated???

  • Tony N

    This is the Truth that Never gets said , and this is why the USA is Losing the goal of Security and Peace . Who in this electorate has the Guts to say this truth ???
    Sura 9:5 says, “Slay the idolaters wherever you find them
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qYbaln3Uqfc&feature=youtu.be

    • DaveH

      Which country in the world has their military in more countries than any other?
      Which country in the world is involved in more military conflicts than any other?
      Shed the Blinders. This isn’t a football game.

  • Michael in Iowa

    This started under Lincoln who jailed his Northern critics setting the precedent B.O. has taken further.

  • Angel Wannabe

    Good article Bob, but a sad one…I keep a picture of my childhood home here beside the computer, I find myself looking at it more and more, wondering what became of the America I knew….

    I think It’s safe to say we’ve been taken over!..and this phrase couldn’t say it any better…

    “I believe we have a deficit of moral courage in the United States Congress. We have many learned individuals who know what is right but have not the courage to stand against the moral corruption that is now attempting to undermine our republic.” Dr. Tom Coburn

    and this phrase…

    “Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other.”
    John Adams

    …as I said yesterday on another thread, Washington may have trumped the Constitution, but I haven’t!

    • Sirian

      Fear not AW, you’re not standing alone – by a long shot!!

    • http://naver Samurai

      I’ll stand next to you and help fight for this country. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

      • Joe H.

        samurai,
        god Bless and Merry Christmas to you and sook young. Have a safe and happy new year as well!!!

    • Angel Wannabe

      “Hear, Hear”, Sirian and Samurai, Merry Christmas & God Bless ya both!

  • jay Lindberg

    Practice your goosestep Zeig Heil

  • Grumpy Old Biker

    The Government has made so many Laws that we are all criminals. If they want you, you’re going to jail. There was a 17 year old boy caught speeding on his new crotch rocket. Because it was 25 miles over the speed limit he was charged as a felon. 17 and he’ll never be able to vote or defend himself with a firearm for the rest of his life. The Police state is here.

    • Phil D

      It has been around a long time, and those willing to fight it are getting to old to do so… BUT, that was the intent of those who rule! Our nation is not ours any longer!

      All these folks with their quick quips are just baying at the moon. Nothing but our defeat has been accomplished with all the procrastination. Soon, we will have to stand or die!

    • Joe H.

      Grumpy,
      On my street, we have a guy that has a red crotch rocket that came down the road at about 50 mph on one wheel just as a little kid on a bycycle turned the corner!! A split second sooner and the little kid would have been DEAD!! We also had them passing cars on I77, east of Cleveland on one wheel at about 75 MPH!! how many could THEY have killed??? there needs to be a LITTLE common sense!!! I’m not for the government walking all over ANYONE, but I’m not in favor of some IDIOT killing kids or other people, just because he wants to be a brainless fool, either!!!

  • Herach

    I am outraged and horrified by the passage of this Defense Authorization Bill. Our basic constitutional rights are abrogated by men and women who took the oath of office to protect our constitution.
    Seizure, imprisonment, no legal counsel, no due process, no Habeas Corpus no notification to families, all within the power of the Administration. The Congress and Presidency are among the least trusted entities in our country. Can we feel safe rendering such power to these people? Never. Where is the outrage of the ACLU,the media, our churches? Is our freedom to hang on the decision of the Supreme Court? Small consolation for the magnitude of what is at stake. Our Founding Fathers passed laws to protect us from tyrannical govenments.They are spinning in their graves, along with all of the men and women who gave their lives to protect freedom at home and abroad. Lenin. Stalin, Hitler, Mao and Hussein are roaring with laughter. It looks like they won. The Congress is doing what they were incapable of accomplishing.

    • Sirian

      Believe it our not, the ACLU has already filed suit on this. Standby, it will be very interesting as to the extent they will push it.

      • Robert Smith

        Be careful. Around here ACLU is a four letter word.

        Rob

      • DaveH

        Was that necessary, Robert?

      • Robert Smith

        Hi Dave,

        Just reminding folks that the ACLU is generally considered around here to be one of those “liberal” organizations.

        I’ll bet it really confuses some of them when it’s THEIR rights that are being protected.

        Rob

      • DaveH

        I remember, Robert, when the ACLU threw their considerable weight behind forcing children to be bused to schools outside their neighborhoods. So much for their Freedom-Fighting.

      • DaveH

        The ACLU is also pushing for Net Neutrality. So much for Freedom of Speech.

      • DaveH
      • libertytrain

        I do also recall Dave, that the liberal streets of Boston were awash with crazed parents protesting intensely that their kids were going to be bussed or certain folks were going to be bussed into their neighborhoods. Go figure.
        “… but the controversy over busing in Boston became particularly notorious. Federal judge Arthur Garrity ordered thousands of black students bused from the northern part of the city to the southern part while thousands of white students were bused in the opposite direction. Some white residents of South Boston rioted and burned school buses, and many gradually left the Boston public school system.”
        http://salempress.com/store/samples/seventies_in_america
        /seventies_in_america_education_in_the_united_states.htm

      • libertytrain
  • PATRIOT 101

    Welcome to the battlefield! Now even the battlefield of ideas in America can be dangerous. With the Commander in Chief able to arrest anyone, anywhere and incarcerate them indefinitely, even IF SOMEONE THINKS you are doing something wrong (AND REPORTS YOU) you can now land in prison indefinitely!
    Worse yet, it won’t be your local sheriff, but an armed to the teeth military unit that shows up to arrest you. There will be no “warrant”, just a gun in your face and an order to come with us!
    People brazenly say they have their guns and will defend themselves and thus liberty, but these militarized units won’t come without sufficient firepower! Any normal citizen will be woefully “outgunned” and thus will have no choice but surrender and indefinite incarceration. If and when you return to your ransacked home, you will find your guns, ammo, food reserves, and survival supplies gone. This government wants everyone dependent in every way on them for everyday survival. Ultimately government will play God to dictate just who is permitted to live and breathe for this is what a dictator does!
    This (Federal Tyranny) may lead to civil war. The only way to “protect” Americans from this dictatorship is to organize and become friends with your LOCAL LAW ENFORCEMENT! Your county sheriff! Constitutionally, the county sheriff has tremendous power. I think he can legally ask the feds to stand down. Someone reading this can expand upon this premise for us I hope. If you have a sheriff that will side with the FEDS, you better find out now and vote him out! You better find a Sheriff that will stand with his county and its residents. Your sheriff is also sworn to uphold the constitution!

    • Joe H.

      Patriot 101,
      I don’t really know about ours. his budget is constantly being cut, due to the federal gov. cutting it’s outgo to his county and state, so I don’t think the feds are very high on his list right about now!!! He has laid off or not hired new after retirement approximately 15 deputies!!!

  • NoMoreMarxistsInDC

    They are letting violent criminals out of jail because they cost too much in jail time and expense as well as fighting the system continuously which costs the courts and lawyers money. By jailing non-criminals for such things as traffic tickets (civil matter), DUI (civil matter until 3rd offense), child support(civil matter), mere allegations of domestic violence (civil matter), and in some states failure to pay mortgages, auto loans and credit card bills (all civil matters), these non-crimes don’t require the vagaries of due process, trials, hearings, lawyers, etc.

    The lawmakers are criminalizing non-crimes in order to keep the jails full for longer periods. It’s cheaper to keep them then convicted dangerous felons, because non-criminals are mostly law-abiding citizens caught up in the government for-profit prison industry. Jail guards don’t have to worry too much about non-criminals as they would with dangerous career criminals.

    At $100-$200 per day to house inmates, state and county prisons have become big business.

    • eddie47d

      CCA or Corrections Corporation of America is the largest private company in charge of prisons. They have no incentive to encourage any rehabilatation or early release for that would take away their cash cow. Even State prison guards(at least in California) vocally rally to keep inmates in prison and with longer sentences. That keeps them all employed with no lay offs and they don’t hide that fact.

      • OkieRon

        ‘Not to mention they actually have lobbyists who’ve been pushing the famous right-wing “Get Tough On Crime” legislation down everyone’s throats for YEARS. ‘Way before Obama, just for the record. Here in Oklahoma, we lock up more women than any other state in America, mostly for minor drug offenses, rather than get ‘em in rehab which costs pennies on the dollar to taxpayers. We also lead the nation in “Woman-killin’”, too! Libs call it “spousal homicide” or some edumacated idiot word, but we call it “woman-killin’” as in: “Sometimes the little woman just needed killin’–back talkin’ her man, ‘not takin’ a beatin’ an’ keepin’ her mouth shut”, etc.

        Down here we crrroooowwed about votin’ down all that Mooslim Sharia Law (It was totally made-up BS, but we used it to rile up the dumbsky base)–but that’s ’cause we like our Christian Sharia Law just fine the way it is…

      • Karolyn

        Good one Ron! SC is not far behind you on that woman-killin’ list, coming in this year at #7.

      • libertytrain

        again, you just can’t find anything to praise in your State….you go out of the way to make sure some crappy statement about it is made…it’s so contrary to the lectures you preach to us poor slobs….

      • Joe H.

        libertytrain,
        I gotta agree with you. all I have seen from karolyn is cuts to the area she lives in!!! I started watching when you first mentioned it, and I haven’t seen a good comment yet. sure don’t match her holier than thou attitude, does it???
        BTW, Merry Christmas!!

      • Karolyn

        Of course you guys have to pick out certain points I make, which, btw, are facts. Never noticed are the good points I make. SC is a very violent state; that is a fact! Fortunately, the area I live in is pretty quiet; however, a lot of that is due to people just keeping their mouths shut. I’ve been here for over 6 years, so I pretty much know the lay of the land. I have repeated this before: I have nothing against anybody and get along just fine; however, some things are what they are. And I actually do have a couple of friends born and raised her. What do you make of that? What about all the people who trash the northeast? Nobody says anything about that. I was born and raised in NJ and do have a loyalty to that state; however, I do, and will, recognize its drawbacks. What is it with you people?

      • libertytrain

        Karolyn what I am saying is there are positives about SC – but you who preach that we should be positive folks – always looking for the good in everything and then life will be peachy keen – you only say negatives – doesn’t matter if they are facts or not. You are still preaching only the negatives, only. So it is contrary to what you preach that our philosophy for life is. Every State has some negative aspects that are facts. Yet every State also has positive aspects that are facts. You choose to only dwell on the negatives.

      • libertytrain

        and that Karolyn is what is “with us folks” – you don’t demonstrate here that you are the person you think you are. You only have to read back your own words with objectivity to see that. I don’t dislike you. Just don’t tolerate your kind of philosophy if you don’t live it yourself.

      • libertytrain

        Joe – Merry Christmas – notice that’s all they say at the shops around here. Merry Christmas…

      • Buster the Anatolian

        “….rather than get ‘em in rehab which costs pennies on the dollar to taxpayers.’

        One little problem with that. For rehab to work the person has to want to be in rehab and has to want to be rehabilitated.

      • Joe H.

        Buster,
        HOW VERY TRUE!!! You can lead a horse to water, but you can’t MAKE him drink!!!

  • JB

    Pathetic ! ! !
    Crime (any / every) is a decision, not an accident – -
    Know the law and obey it – or work to change it. Igoring existing law (any) is not optional – - there is a price to pay – -
    Laws are enacted “for” society & not against individuals.
    Exceptions cannot be made – otherwise, there is no law of any kind – - Live in the gutter, participate in crime (of anykind) & you are the problem.
    And blame is just stupid – - nobody forces anybody into criminal activity.
    Prisons are not any answer to crime ! ! !

    • Ret

      A few years ago a 10-year-old girl was arrested and charged with a felony for bringing a small steak knife to school. It turns out that all she wanted to do was to cut up her lunch so that she could eat it.
      Back in 2008, a 13-year-old boy in Florida was actually arrested by police for farting in class.
      A U.S. District Court judge slapped a 5oo dollar fine on Massachusetts fisherman Robert J. Eldridge for untangling a giant whale from his nets and setting it free. So what was his crime? Well, according to the court, Eldridge was supposed to call state authorities and wait for them do it.
      I googled what are the most ridiculous crimes in various states. These are just a few

      • eddie47d

        There is a true story similar to what Bob Livingston brought up about the children hugging in school and being suspended. This 6 year old boys was playing doctor with a 5 year old girl and the parents caught him and had him arrested. The parent demanded severe action and the 6 year old was charged with a felony and placed in jail. This was a few months ago and as of last week he was still incarcerated. It should have been solved by the parents of both children and not the justice system.

      • Joe H.

        eddie,
        the boy is NOt still incarsurated. He is being sent mail that says he could be jailed if he fails to show. the prosecutor in this case is a total airhead and should lose her licence to practice law!!! go to:
        jonathanturley.org/2011/11/25/family-sues-wisconsin…cached
        it shows the story.

      • Joe H.

        that addy should be:
        jonathanturley.org/2011/11/25/family-sues-wisconsin…-cached
        sorry about dropping one tiny dash

    • Pepper

      Wow JB. You better keep up with all the laws they are passing or you could be breaking several everyday, because everyday there is a new one. It’s about MONEY and CONTROL. NOT about your or society’s safety! I do believe some need to be where they are in jail, but there is money being made by incarcerating the masses and the “fear” of going there gives the handlers more power. Now they can just use the military to round up all those that you don’t like without trial at all. When they get done with “those people” they will make another law and be coming for you. Wait until they steal your property and incarcerate you. I KNOW, I HAVE SEEN IT up close and personal. I have witnessed a cop saying “If you’re not a criminal, we’ll make you one”.

  • Jtrevizo

    Just look up Leonard Peltier and read how an innocent man took the fall for a mistake the FBI made back in the 70′s on the Pine Ridge reservation. The guy is still in jail, and dying of cancer.
    Some Native people are in jail over having eagle feathers! How ridiculous is that! Feathers are an important part of our beliefs and traditions, and the government has laws regarding owning and obtaining feathers. That’s like having rules on how many bibles someone can have and give. This POS administration is making me mad as hell–it’s furthering stupidity like these “laws” regarding our culture. Free Leonard Peltier!
    Ron Paul 2012!

    • dan

      Y’all are just beginning to understand what the Confederacy was
      fighting for…
      and ,indeed , free Peltier and remember Wounded Knee,Ruby Ridge.
      Waco,OKC,9/11…
      it’s not a conspiracy ‘theory’ anymore

    • Ret

      I just read about Leonard Pelitier, really sad. Ron Paul.

    • eddie47d

      I signed a petition for Peltier’s release just last week. Nice to see others are aware.

    • Karolyn

      I knew two women some years ago who had collected pheasant and other feathers they had found on the road. While they were away, their house got flooded and had to be taken care of by some public employees who saw the feathers. The women got charged for having them.

      • Isaac Davis

        So, based on this one critical event, why do you have any faith or trust or confidence in a gov’t at any level to have the capacity for common sense? You capitulate to gov’t in every argument against Liberty and Freedom, yet you point out a precise event that should create the most reprehensible disgust for such stupidity. Feathers created in nature, shed by it’s species, collected by someone who valued their beauty.

      • Karolyn

        I have been posting here for over a year and I do not capitulate to government in all arguments. I do disagree with some things that many on here believe, but we have more in common than most people even notice because they’re so ready to jump on me when I do disagree.

      • eddie47d

        Liberty means different thing to different people and the government isn’t always the bad guy. Take a look at free market greed and exploitation on the other side. They have the Liberty to screw others and do it often too.

      • DaveH

        First of all, Eddie, we haven’t had Free Markets for a very long time.
        Secondly, how could Free Markets be Greedy, since you don’t have to buy their products? They are being NO Greedier asking a higher price than you want to pay, than you are for asking a lower price than they want to sell for.
        Wanting to use Government to take somebody else’s money by Force is the highest form of Greed.

  • Randy131

    You compare the USA to North Korea because of their prison populations, but fail to look at the reasons behind the incarcerations of those prison populations? Also when comparing our prison populations to other countries, you also fail to explain that a free citizenry are more likely to break the laws of a government they do not fear, than those of a not so free scoiety that fear their governments. It’s hard to compare apples to apples, and oranges to oranges, when no other society is granted as much freedom as ours is, and who the government is taught, and suppose to be, subservant to the people, unlike all other governments around the world. Unbridled freedoms come with a price to pay for those who try to use them to cross the line of what is forbidden, for which those freedoms complicate the mindset for what they are allowed to do.

    • Ret

      I have lived in 2 other countries, one had been under communist rule for 50 years. They do not, and will not tolerate what is going on in this country now. They’ve been there. We used to have the most freedoms, but sadly, that is no longer true. A war vet in Texas is gunned down in his own home, laws now state that the police can enter your home, basically on a whim, TSA molests your grandmother and your child. You are not allowed to drink raw milk. Gibson Guitars has their factory raided and woods confiscated, in spite of the fact that they had all of the required legal papers. An American citizen claims that he is illegal so he doesn’t have to go to jail. He was deported. Is that freedom?

      • eddie47d

        Gibson’s actually took illegally harvested wood from a protected area. They may not have been aware of that fact but seems unlikely.

      • Andrea B

        I’m calling BULL$H– on your comment, eddie…

        Gibson’s did NOT take illegal wood from a protected area, as I’m sure you’re well aware.

        If you’re going to try to summarize an entire article in two sentences, at least make an attempt to get it right.

        Gibson’s placed an order for wooden guitar bodies and necks, and that’s just what they received. If our govt says a particular type of wood should be protected in another country, but THAT country doesn’t have OUR EPA regulations, how is it that Gibson did anything wrong?

        They simply placed an order, paid for it, received it, and had it taken away from them by our federal govt until the ‘investigation’ is complete. Meanwhile, Gibson has not been reimbursed for their merchandise, and the feds will be sure to ignore properly caring for their property while it’s confiscated so that it will not be sellable when/if it’s returned to them.

        Shame on you for misrepresenting the true facts of the case…like a good little sheep.

        Ron Paul 2012

      • Robert Smith

        Andrea says: “If our govt says a particular type of wood should be protected in another country, but THAT country doesn’t have OUR EPA regulations, how is it that Gibson did anything wrong? ”

        The root if it is in the Lacey Act. One could easily surmize that such a law was put on the books in to limit hemp fiber coming into America. After all, gotta stop the competition for Nylon and Dacron.

        Rob

      • eddie47d

        Andrea: They bought their wood from a protected area in Madagascar and I believe in India also. Those countries have a right to protect these areas so whether it was intentional or not poaching has to be stopped. No different than buying illegal Ivory or any other product that is limited or rare. We all need to get a grasp on the bigger picture and free markets doesn’t mean it has to be a free for all.

      • Buster the Anatolian

        “They bought their wood from a protected area in Madagascar.”

        eddie Gibson has official documents from their sources of wood giving them permission to posess it and permisson to do all finishing work on the wood. The wood Gibson purchased from Madagascar was legal wood legally purchased.

      • Joe H.

        eddie
        nice try, bud, but you forget to mention that they had all the proper paperwork, required by the government before the government came in and confiscated it!!

      • Opal the Gem

        The only “facts” eddie ever has are those conjured up in his mind.

      • JeffH

        You’re wrong as usual and this has been discussed in detail with such proof of you “assumtion” of guilty without facts.

        “Gibson in its (Tuesday) filing decried what it called the government’s “delay tactics” in a case that it said has “reached a legal dead end.”

        The two-year investigation has “created an unjustified cloud of suspicion over Gibson,” with little result other than to hamper the company’s ability to make guitars, according to the filing.

        Windsor, Calif.-based Luthiers Mercantile argued in a separate filing that the criminal investigation is related to the wood imported from Madagascar in 2009, and not this year’s import of ebony from India.

        “The government is using an indefensible argument to seize fingerboards destined for Gibson and then trying to indefinitely hold those fingerboards under cover of a never-ending ‘related criminal investigation,’” according to the filing.

        Gibson has denied any wrongdoing, and Luthiers Mercantile in its filing suggests the guitar maker is being singled out unfairly.

        “Shipments of such fingerboards continue to arrive in this country on a regular basis, and have for years,” the company argued in the document. “Apparently, if those fingerboards are destined for Gibson, they are seized; if they are destined for another manufacturer, they are not.”
        http://news.yahoo.com/us-reps-seek-law-raids-gibson-guitars-181259344.html

      • Isaac Davis

        You have no facts to back up your bogus claim. If Gibson Guitar, and we are WAY off topic here, were using some illegal wood for their products, then SO ARE every other guitar manfacturer in the U.S. because that wood is common among the manufacturers. If you are so factually correct in your two sentence accusation, tell us all why the other union manufacturers are still in business, still have materials in their warehouses, and are not fighting a corrupt (fast and furious) DOJ?

      • eddie47d

        There are plenty of companies who claim innocence to weasel out of wrong doings. That is a favorite American pastime. No wonder lawyers are big business in protecting their clients. That is in no way in defense of the governments swat actions against Gibson for that was unnecessary.

      • JeffH

        That’s the best thing about you eddie, you believe in your own conjecture…Gibson has never been charged yet the government can sieze and hold their “legally” attained wood products…but then again, you also believe you’re not a liar and that opinins are fact…we got it figured out, how ’bout you?

      • Dennis48e

        “That is in no way in defense of the governments swat actions against Gibson for that was unnecessary.”

        But your previous posts on the subject seem to support the government’s actions.

    • Erik

      So Randy131,Do you realize what it’s like for the people who live in n.korea,let alone what their prison’s are like? Did you know there’s generations of people born in captivity who don’even know what a phone or a radio is? What did those poor people do to merit that? I could be wrong,but it sounds to me like your embrace a goverment that incarcerate’s it’s people for questionable reasons,and draconion laws all in the name of justice.It sounds like you’ll be right at home in america’s new police state.After all we wouldn’t want to cross the line,and do anything forbidden,it might complicate the perception of what our freedoms and right’s are under the patriot act,right?

      • Joe H.

        Erik,
        And yet there are so many on the news mourning Kim Jung Ils passing!!! Yeah right!!! i wonder how many of them had a gun pointed at their back from a distance????

    • http://futuredreamer.org Robert Ahrens

      Let it be said here and now, We will not suffer your poor replacement for the Republic we loved, with the freedoms that called out to the rest of the world,’here is freedom, here is opportunity, here you may live out your life and raise your family without the fear of tyranny and let Freedom Ring! Well, the civil war took care of that old republic, and generally speaking FDR finished it off. The prison population has swelled because of the so called ‘war on drugs’ and the RICO act which was intended to fight the Mafia, has been perverted to include basically any group you may belong to or associate with. Ron Paul in 2012 is a faint hope, people, because the America the Free that we love so much has been just a dream at least since Nixon, and we have a constitution with a Bill of Rights that the powerful Washington elite look on as at best troublesome and frankly as high class toilet paper. The only way we could EVER get back to the dreams of our Founding Fathers, is the way they did it, through revolt!

      • Joe H.

        Robert Ahrens,
        If that is your real name, and I know there is a good chance it isn’t, are you related to Patti Ahrens??

    • DaveH

      Where do you get the idea that we have Freedom, Randy, because the Government tells you so? What a joke.
      We can be the subject of a gestapo-style raid for something as simple as selling raw milk.
      Even our supplements which have been proven to kill nobody each year have come under the watchful eye of Big Government.
      Soon we can’t even buy our choice of light-bulbs.
      Their Gang has their hands in almost every aspect of our lives.
      We are far from Free.
      Our Government spends 40% of our GDP each year. That’s $10,000 a year for those make $50,000 a year income. How many people would voluntarily pay $10,000 a year for what Government does for us?

    • Karolyn

      Did you not read was written about Germany? (“For every 100,000 Americans, 750 are in jail. In Germany the rate is only 93 per 100,000.”)Germany is a very free, very safe, society. It’s not safe because the people fear incarceration. It’s safe because it is not a violent society like the one we live in. Just read the comments here filled with anger and hatred. THAT is why there are so many criminals.

      • Angel Wannabe

        Ah Karolyn knock it off!__Who the hell’s getting violent!__I’m sorry Girl but your kind is half the problem, your going way over board, and jumping to conclusions and overreacting!!!!!, how about knowing the differencxe between dissent and violence here!

      • Karolyn

        Angel – You’ve seen people comment here about hanging, shooting, or in some other way killing people. That is the kind of talk that contributes to the general climate of anger and violence.

      • Angel Wannabe

        Good Grief, Karolyn and Eddie, I get p*ssed off with the best of them, but it doesn’t make me wanna get a gun and shoot some body.
        Good Lord!_ What really going on is a combination of problems__and what needs to happen is for people, to know the difference between and actual threat and someone just blowing off steam, everyone is over reacting!

        Biggest problem right now is, everyone knows somethings seriously wrong in America, eveyones edgy, there in a fight or flight mode(I lived that way for years with a sick mother, so I know what that’s like), that’s not helping the situation either.

      • DaveH

        You’re trying to kill us, Karolyn, with Condescension.

      • Karolyn

        Dave – What on earth is your problem that you have to keep doggin’ me? Condescension my butt!

      • Joe H.

        Karolyn,
        I suggest you look up the skinheads in Germany and THEN tell me how safe it is there.

      • DaveH

        This is my problem, Karolyn:
        http://www.personalliberty.com/conservative-politics/liberty/prison-nation/#comment-682338

        To wit, Karolyn says — “Just read the comments here filled with anger and hatred. THAT is why there are so many criminals”.

        I get tired of your starry-eyed hypocrisy, Karolyn. Sell that magic mirror. You are definitely not the fairest of them all.

      • eddie47d

        The big problem Karolyn is that they dwell on violence so much and “getting revenge” that they super size the problems. They need to tone things down a bit.

      • DaveH

        Spoken like a non-violent Union Guy. Yeah, sure ziggy.

      • libertytrain

        DaveH – I was actually laughing when I read his reply….if he only knew how he comes across. An intellectual it “ain’t” –

      • Joe H.

        Kumbyahhhhhh, kumbyahhhhhh! ahhhhhhh Crapola!!!

      • libertytrain

        Karolyn – go to Germany – our area or news is not aware of everything that goes down there or publishing same. I do feel safer there but it’s only because I’m blissfully unaware that I’m not necessarily safer —- I felt safe walking San Francisco at night but I should not have —– it’s all an illusion…

      • Karolyn

        I know a soldier and his German wife who just came back from his stationing there for 10(?) years or so. They want to go back.

      • Isaac Davis

        Of course they want to go back! Germany is a socialist state, but a stable socialist state that isn’t changing the rules on a daily basis. What they have in Germany is a relative constant, not a constant state of flux where everyday yields a less free sovereign Citizen who is stripped by pin-pricks of his/her Liberty by a feral gov’t running stupid. Tell us this, where does government in America get it’s power to govern from?

      • eddie47d

        The government gets their power from the consent of the governed. Apparently Americans want their entitlements and keep voting for those who support those efforts. That is democracy in action and the voting public chooses the winner. Liberals don’t like what Conservatives do with their votes and Conservatives don’t like what Liberals do. Everyone tries to change those rules to please themselves so maybe we are all rather spoiled.

      • libertytrain

        Yeah, so do I – my kids live there, and I’m crazy about Berlin — but that doesn’t mean that these places don’t have their own set of problems… They do. I love it there but I don’t know that you would be open minded to experience the cultural differences. Given the way you have difficulty tolerating the cultural differences you live with and continuously express your inability to understand it.. And that’s in your own country. Goodness. I can’t imagine.

      • Joe H.

        gusee you missed the report today that voter fraud is considered common place by certain people. they even mentioned your old buddies, ACORN!!! you remember them, don’t you?? The snake that shed his ACORN skin to become a brighter, more colorful, different snake of the SAME DETRIMENT!!!

      • Karolyn

        Why “should” you not feel safe walking anywhere? It’s the person who walks in fear who is the one targeted. Rather than “blissfully unaware,” I call it living without fear.

      • libertytrain

        Karolyn, while I understand where you going with that and the philosophy behind it is an interesting concept that sometimes works – no guarantees ….. you have at it. try Watts in LA – or I could suggest some neighborhoods in Chicago, Milwaukee even, oh better yet, – Detroit and just go on in – head high, confident as hell….have at it. But the odds are you won’t but you will lecture us how it would work if you could do it but of course you can’t do it because you don’t have money to travel, or have to work or…or…or…

      • Karolyn

        liberty – I opened my store in a city that people said I was nuts for going into because of the crime rate, but what I saw was a beautiful city on its way up. Due to a lot of reasons (9/11 for one) it didn’t go very far. At any rate, I saw very little shoplifting from my shop and was not afraid to be there by myself, which I was most of the time. Back in the late 70s I used to spend a lot of time on the lower east side of NYC, which is not the nicest place to be. I had the same attitude then and survived it very well. I am not as much of a babe in the woods as you might believe. I do not live in fear, and that is the bottom line, and I refuse to be intimidated by those who say I should be worried, or scared or less trusting. I have been in some pretty shaky situations and always came out unscathed. I have always been a risk-taker and am certainly not sorry for it because my risks have enriched my life.

      • libertytrain

        I know when I was 20 I did things as well – and you have at it, no matter where you want to walk….go for it. I know you can do it….we all have and I will again. I don’t know where you get this live in fear crap. There is a difference between those that live in fear and those that use common sense. They are not the same thing.

      • Joe H.

        karolyn,
        i am not AFRAID to walk anywhere in the USA. I do however have some common sense that tells me there are areas that I should avoid if I don’t want physical harm done to my person. Like certain areas on the near east side of Cleveland. Or certain areas of the Detroit area. I’m not afraid, but unlike you, I’m not a fool, either!!

      • libertytrain

        Oh Joe, I enjoy your posts. :)

      • Joe H.

        Libertytrain,
        Thanks!! Merry CHRISTmas My friend, and a safe and happy New Year!!!

  • http://Personalliberty Tony

    To Everyone:
    This is an excellent article. Basically, there are people in prison who simply shouldn’t be there. The majority of people behind bars are there because they didn’t fill out a tax form, had a marijuana joint
    in their hand, or getting into a verbal arguement with a significant other. Rarely, do they get and incarcerate the ” most dangerous”
    members to society. So, again fantastic article. Thanks!!

    • cawmun cents

      Never assume that someone behind bars shouldnt be there.
      The stakes of being wrong may include manufacturing more victims of crime.
      Many folks who are convicted of one thing,take plea bargains to avoid doing time for another.Keep that in mind during your decision making process.
      -CC.

      • DaveH
      • DaveH

        Here’s another everybody should read:
        http://reason.com/archives/2011/07/05/the-devils-bargain

      • cawmun cents

        My point is that for every wrongful conviction,a hundred actual perpetrators of much more sinister crimes go unpunished for those crimes by taking lesser pleas.
        The numbers would astound you.
        But you never hear of it because no activists are working for the victims of criminals.
        The activism you hear of is always centered around the perpetrators.
        It is a problem of leniency.
        A person who is wrongfully convicted of murder,may have committed dozens of crimes for which the books will never know.
        The victims of those crimes are the ones you should be advoctaing for.
        The unknown victims of unsolved criminal activities.
        What about them?
        Do you hear their swansong in the mix?
        Nope.
        That is a national tragedy.
        But nobody bleeds for the victims of criminals.
        They are too busy counting the wrongfuully convicted while the perpetrators who took a plea deal get out to commit more crimes and generate more victims who are never heard from.
        Kind of sickening isnt it?
        -CC.

      • Karolyn

        cawmun – I don’t know how it is in other places, but we have county Victim Advocates here and also a State Office of Victim Assistance that helps victims financially.

      • cawmun cents

        Yeah Karolyn?
        How is that possible when we are all victims of legislative power running amok?
        When so many laws are on the books that when they change them and fail to repeal the old ones there is confusion and chaos?
        Nobody ever advoocated for me,when I was robbed,beaten,stolen from.
        They took down my statement and wallah!
        I was another faceless victim of crime.
        Never heard anything afterward.
        That is victim advocacy?
        What a farce.
        You must live in a tiny world of make-believe.
        I want some of what you are smoking.

        In the mean time…..carry on as if nothing has happened.
        Just like the advocacy groups of which you speak.-CC.

      • http://Personalliberty Tony

        To C.C.:
        You see sir, the real criminals such as the rapists, the murders,
        the child molesters, arsonists, armed robbers barely face justice. That’s because law enforcement is wasn’t time on very miniscule charges. If our justice forces would deal with the most dangerous members to society then there wouldn’t be all these crime victims. Thanks!!

      • http://Personalliberty Tony

        To cc again:
        correction wasted, not wasn’t time. Thanks again!!

      • cawmun cents

        Law enforcement officials are not there to deter or stop criminal behavior.They are there to arrest and detain the accused or alledged perpetrators of crime,so that they may,if convicted in a court of law,serve the respective penalties for their crimes.
        The penal code was written so that there would be clear language,as to the punishment befitting criminal activities,and the charges which can and will be levied against alledged perpetrators.
        Mistakes are made,as with any system of gubment,but here at least you are able to get a trial before conviction.
        Many places in the world observe the guilty until proven innocent way of dispensing justice.

        Thank God the United States of America,does not.
        Are there innocent men in jail?
        Of course.
        But how many of the crimes that a person has committed have they even been accused of?
        You will never know.
        But there are still victims of those undisclosed crimes.
        Those are the folks you should advocate for IMHO.
        -CC.

      • Karolyn

        cawmun – I don’t know how long ago your experience occurred, but things are different now, at least here. The Victim’s Advocate is employed by the county and works at the Sheriff’s Office. She talks to any victim who wants her services and will help them in any way possible, including putting in a claim with SOVA for compensation if warranted.

      • Joe H.

        cawmun cents,
        A good example of what you speak of. A guy I personally know ofraped a handicapped girl at gunpoint here in Ohio. now the law states an automatic seven years for a crime commited with a gun, regardless if the gun is loaded, or even if it is REAL. If the victim thought their life was in danger, the law says seven years for GUN USE! The gun the guy used was a pellet gun and the girl didn’t know it. She laid still as the guy raped her and a friend held her down. The court handed down a sentence of six months with two off for behavior. FOUR MONTHS FOR RAPING A MENTALLY HANDICAPPED GIRL AT GUN POINT!! If I had my way, HE WOULDN’T HAVE THE EQUIPMENT TO OFFEND AGAIN!!!

      • libertytrain

        that’s right Joe, Confiscate the weapon. I’ve used that line since the early 70′s when a woman’s activist first coined it at the meetings back in the day when there was a serial rapist/killer on the loose in Milwaukee… I cannot remember her name but she was something else.

    • http://naver Samurai

      eep the druggies behind bars. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

      • DaveH

        Why? Alcohol kills 4 times as many as illegal drugs.
        Tobacco kills 20 times as many as illegal drugs.
        Even Prescription Drugs kill Twice as many as illegal drugs:
        http://drugwarfacts.org/factbook.pdf
        It’s a scam, people. Just another of many excuses for Big Government to gain more Power and Perks at the expense of the rest of the citizens.

      • eddie47d

        It cost more(tax money) to incarcerate than to rehabilitate so what is your point?

      • Andrea B

        “Keep the druggies behind bars…FOR GOD AND COUNTRY”

        Did you know that the human body has more cannibanoid receptors than ANY other type of receptor?

        Do you believe that God created human beings?

        Do you believe that God created the marijuana plant?

        If yes, then you agree that God made our bodies to be receptive to cannabanoids AND He made cannabanoids, but YOU and POLITICIANS know better than God what humans should have?

        You’re “logic” is lacking.

        Ron Paul 2012

      • Joe H.

        Andrea B,
        God made toadstools, too, but I won’t be eating any real soon!! God also made a little thing called common sense.

      • Karolyn

        There are far TOO many “druggies” behind bars. They need help, not incarceration, which only produces worse offenders. They also take up space that can be better used for violent offenders.

      • Joe H.

        karolyn,
        good then YOU pay for the intervention and treatment for this SELF INDUCED PROBLEM and don’t use MY tax money for it!! I don’t support tax money being used for alcohol treatment, either BTW!! If they haven’t got the ability to use the common sense God gave them to stay off the drugs then let them or their families help them, not ME!!

      • http://Personalliberty Tony

        To Samurai:
        It’s time to end the insane war on Drugs. The way to do that is to legalize or at least de-criminalize them. Put a 10% sales tax on them
        and treat them as a social problem. It’s cost tax payers $40,000.00
        a year to incarcerate an individual. It only cost $12,000.00 a year to
        educate and rehabilitate that same individual. Think about that. Thanks!!

      • Joe H.

        Let their FAMILIES rehabilitate them!!! It’s a Self INDUCED PROBLEM!!! nobody FORCED them to go on drugs!!! Legalize the drugs and the number of users will only double!!!

      • Karolyn

        Wrong, Joe! Do you really think the law deters anybody that has a predisposition to using drugs? Think again! Those who do not have that predisposition will not run out and use if it is legal. That’s rediculous! Yes, I have worked in that industry.

      • Joe H.

        karolyn,
        so you SAY but I have only your WORD for that!!!

    • moonbeam

      You’re right about that, Tony. Just look at Jerry Sandusky from Penn State child sex abuse fame. He’s been boning young boys for 15 years and more. Each time a new victim comes forward and Sandusky gets arrested, he is allowed to bond out. Meanwhile, the guy who practiced an honest trade to feed his family is called a felon.

      Time to do the do and retake our government from the whores, liars, thieves and the illegal in the oval office who fester like a red angry boil on the ass of society.

  • Carolyn Cummings

    And at the same time they can take a minor question them without being read their rights nor having a parent or even another adult with them until the child says something to make themselves guilty. I have come to find out that minors between 14 and 16 have NO rights at all. Then when in court they get more time than an adult for the same crime, where an adult might get a year the minor can be in the J.J.A. custody up to and until age 23.5 years old.

    • Joe H.

      Carolyn Cummings,
      Then there are the ones like the guy I saw at the licence bureau the other day. his 17 year old daughter had accumulated enough points to lose her licence. The courts said that they had to surrender the licence to the court. He and she were ath the office trying to get her a state ID in lieu of a licence for identity. The clerk could not give them one until the licence was surrendered and he was having a fit. He kept talking about his “poor daughter” and how the state was screwing her over. Well, had she followed the safe driving rules and not lost her licence, she wouldn’t be putting her dad through this problem but she all along thought the rles were for everyone BUT her!!! he was NOT doing her any kind of a favor by defending her actions. Untill she learns to be a responsible citizen, she will continue to be in trouble with the law!!!

      • libertytrain

        Joe H – yep you’re absolutely right…I’ve seen that kind of thing as well and it sure isn’t going to teach the young gal any is it?

  • Alcam

    With a “corporate run jail system” it is necessary that as high a proportion of the population as possible be in jail. The more you get the higher the profits. This excludes the real criminals of course, Wall Street and Washington “fraudsters” are not bad enough to be sent to jail. Anyway they have conned enough money out of society to be able to avoid criminal charges by accepting a “settlement” Or is that offering a bribe to the legal system. That kid stealing an apple is far more dangerous to society.

  • http://yahoo Michael

    One aspect an off note a friend of mine due to a bad judjement call is in prision made mention that the commisary,the ability to buy snacks was another way a very highranking Gov official used to make money.With that said there are other are other places money is made off prisioners.Food ,labor contracts,road funds,mabe not directly as to dirty the hands.In this area alone there is boondoggleing going on.

    • DaveH

      The whole justice system has been turned into a money maker for the Politicians, their Crony Capitalists, and the rest of their Gang. The cops profit, the lawyers profit, the judges profit, the jailers profit, the news media profits….
      http://reason.org/news/show/more-democracy-more-incarceration

      • Angel Wannabe

        DaveH, it’s sad to say everyone seems to be on the take Dave!__

        For what its worth, I bought 10 pocket Constitutions from Cato Institute for stocking stuffers, I intend on spreading the word this Christmas_ I pray were not too late to dial this back…

      • DaveH

        Excellent idea, Angel. Good for you.

      • Joe H.

        Angel Wannabe,
        i bought 11 of them from Patriot Action Network. i handed them out to friends of mine this summer. All except one I kept for myself for reference!!

  • Vicki

    OP writes:
    “Now, Congress has passed and the President has signed legislation that designates America a battlefield in the War on Terror and subjects Americans to indefinite incarceration without a hearing.”

    Do we have confirmation that the changes to the Bill were such that this situation still exists and is now law? If so then we have crossed the line as stated by the OP.

    Our forefathers had something rather important to say about that.
    Federalist #84 in particular. Hamelton quotes Blackstone when saying
    “To bereave a man of life (says he) or by violence to confiscate his estate, without accusation or trial, would be so gross and notorious an act of despotism, as must at once convey the alarm of tyranny throughout the whole nation; but confinement of the person by secretly hurrying him to goal, where his sufferings are unknown or forgotten, is a less public, a less striking, and therefore a more dangerous engine of arbitrary government.”
    http://press-pubs.uchicago.edu/founders/documents/bill_of_rightss7.html

    • Warrior

      Yep, and those that favored should be identified and removed from office.

      • Truthseeker

        Ron Paul voted “NO” on H.R. 1540. Michele Bachman voted “YES” along with Nancy Pelosi and others for this legislation. To get all the info on who voted for and who voted against H.R. 1540 that takes away the right for a trial and makes it legal to arrest any american for any reason and be held for any length of time go to: http://www.govtrack.us/congress/vote.xpd?vote=h2011-375 .

      • Joe H.

        Truthseeker,
        either your site or the other one posted here the other night was wrong. It said LaTourette didn’t vote. not accusing, just wanting to know for sure!

      • Truthseeker

        @ Joe H. says, Hopefully all is correct, however, mistakes do happen. It is very interesting to note how many representatives voted contrary to the Constitution that they swore to uphold. Remember, ” anyone can be arrested at any time, without reason and held indefinitely without being charged of a crime and without any due process of law “.

      • Ret

        The problem is that our so called elected representatives represent everyone but us. house – 283 for the revised, down from 322, and senate – 86 for, 13 against, and one who could not be bothered to vote. Heil Amerika.

      • wandamurline

        Absolutely, our forefathers foresaw what this a-holes in Washington are right now and they told us that it was “our duty” when the government became corrupt and tyranical to “remove the government” and replace it with a constitutional government. If we can’t do that in the voting box, then we are going to have to step up and do what is needed any way possible. America is headed for a revolution and the people in charge with their smug faces making fun of us “little” people will not be so smug in the end because it will be them that we are after. Go green in 2012, recycle any member of congress who has been in office longer than 10 years. Vote like your very life depends on it, because it literally does and that of your kids.

      • Angel Wannabe

        wandamurline__”Hear, Hear!”

      • Robert Smith

        From wandamurline: “If we can’t do that in the voting box, then we are going to have to step up and do what is needed any way possible.”

        Riiiiiiiiight!!!!!! And ignor the vote, the very basis of our representative democracy.

        Quite frankly I consider what you advocate to be unAmerican.

        Rob

      • Andrea B

        Hey Rob–

        Do you have ANY idea of how our country was established?

        Do the words ‘American Revolutionary War’ ring any bells with you?

        Do you know who and what George Washington was before he was president of these United States? He was a General in the Revolutionary War.

        Ignorance is falling off of you like dandruff dear boy…

        Ron Paul 2012

      • DaveH

        So, Robert, you’re okay with the Government breaking the law with impunity?

      • Kate8

        Rob – Our founders knew that, one day, our government would be out of control, just as it is today. That is why they proclaimed it to be our duty to remove it when it happened.

        That was the main purpose of the second amendment.

    • DaveR

      You might try this site to find legislation of interest to you:
      http://www.govtrack.us/congress/legislation.xpd

      But if you want to know the exact wording and status of any legislation, and who are its sponsors, the official site is through here
      http://thomas.loc.gov/home/thomas.php
      Thomas is the keeper of the record for the Library of Congress which is the official keeper of the records of congressional action on legislation.

      If you get into the habit of checking with Thomas, you will not be at risk of being swayed by erroneous “fact” and biased opinion statements that are common in the press media and on the internet.

      • Kate8

        I have said this many times, and it’s still true.

        Congress knows they are overreaching their authority. They cannot force these illegitimate laws on us without the consent of the governed.

        They see our compliance as implied consent.

        It is up to us to form movements to withhold consent and stand up to these criminals. We are in the right; they are in violation of their sworn duties. Compliance in the hope of being left alone does not work. It only encourages further oppression, and no American should even consider rolling over on these breaches of trust.

        Oh, when will we stop thinking that these not particularly bright group of self-serving sell-outs has ultimate power over us? THEY ONLY HAVE THE POWER WE ALLOW THEM. And right now they are in a power-crazed frenzy, thinking themselves invincible and above the laws they set for the rest of us.

        If we ever cease seeing ourselves as hapless sheep, and see ourselves as the sovereign beings which we are by nature, we will take back our freedom and our power. This could be done in a most peaceful way, simply by refusing to take any more.

      • JeffH

        :) Hear Hear!

    • Jack

      WOW! In my lifetime the Government (Rep. & Dem.- Playing Good Cop verses Bad Cop) has legalized there right to take me and my property for the betterment of society. They have taken away a persons right to work and do his/ her trade in the persuit of happiness. (Occupation License Requirements just means the Government has the power to dictate control of your ability earn a living. They have passed a law requiring all seeds that grow food must first be Gov. Certified(tested)They control the food grown! They are closing our national parks – making it illegal to be there. So you have no place to flee to. Are you ready for total control! Watch Demolition Man, Eon Flux or Wall-e (Look for brain dampening movies that depict the “Perfect Society” and see the message for the next generation!)
      Go Libertarianism! Please forgive my spelling and grammer, I was a product of public school in the 70′s. “If you were good at sports no education was required.”

  • Robert Smith

    Stated: “And with drug laws criminalizing possession of as little marijuana as a seed or stem, it’s easy to understand why there are more than 2.3 million people in American prisons.”

    Yup, and taking away more and more personal freedoms.

    Maybe on some fronts it’s getting a little better. One won’t necessarily go to jail for loving the wrong sex. But that’s just about the only front where persicution is less.

    And! Violent offenders are being let go to open more jail space for those who have been caught with drugs or other minor (NOT as in sexual assault with a minor) offenses.

    Why in a country that claims freedoms for it’s citizens are such laws in place?

    Rob

    • cawmun cents

      First they rally up the ne’er-do-wells,hobos,drug addicts,homosexuals,radical race groups,mentally challenged,activists,artists,college edumacated folk,and have them marching in the streets.
      Not just because they are useful for voting purposes,but so that when the takeover is complete,they have photographed and cataloged,everyone who they intend to execute.
      Its been done before.
      Of course,most have forgotten that fact.
      They go out wearing their Che tee-shirts,thinking that its cool to be a radical.Never suspecting that they are wearing a target on their backs.WOO,HOO!I am different they all shout as they parade through the streets.
      The Festival of Fools never understands the reasoning of those who permit them to run amok for a time.They are epecially excited when their organizers tell them that eventually they will be running the show.
      The electric eye has already recorded their countenances,the satellites which can spot a flea on a donkeys backside have them dialed into their memory banks.
      Photo-identification complete,the sign waving mutant faux-elites grow more impatient with their leaders when more photographic evidence is required and they are told to march again.
      So they wave their signs and hoot and holler for the cause,which they do not suspect is egging them on for a purpose.
      Elimination.
      They think that the way to happiness is via mob rule.
      They may get that which they are preying for,but they think they are the superior numbers.How delightfully naieve they are.
      The handlers are grooming the cattle for the last round-up,headed for the slaughteryard.
      Get along lil’dogies,get along.-CC.

      • Sirian

        LOL!! If that doesn’t clear the air in a common sense fashion I don’t know what does – outstanding!! Uh OH, Watch out cawmun cents, eddie47 is gonna come down on you with a hellfire and brimstone vigor. . . :)

      • cawmun cents

        Stop it Sirian,you are frightening me with this eddie47d thing.
        Then again perhaps it is out waving its sign at the rally.
        GO EDDIE47D!
        -CC.

      • Sirian

        LOL, LOL!!!!

      • Kate8

        CC – I agree. That post was outstanding!

        I would guess that most of our names are on the elimination list, whichever side we’re on. We’re being monitored in every possible way.

        Let’s not forget that it was IBM that categorized the population for Hitler, listing them according to their coming fates. The very same IBM to whom this administration has given the same task…obviously, they have no qualms about it.

        Speak out and we’re condemned…remain silent and we’re still condemned. Some fates are acually worse than death, mainly complete disempowerment and hopelessness.

        We’d best do all we can, while we can.

      • cawmun cents

        Please understand….I like you all.
        You are all fellow Americans.
        I may disagree with contempt about how I feel in political areas,and social issues,but I believe everyone has the right to agree to disagree.But I like you all….Happy Holidays,Best Wishes,Merry Christmas,etc.etc.
        That dont mean we’ll be taking showers together until long into the night…….or sending each other easter seals,or fruitcakes,we got enough o’those around here.
        But if you dont like what I say then tell me you hate it…I am a big boy,I can take whatever anyone dishes out.I laugh at the contempt with which we talk to each other but I see valid points from all directions.So I am not totally lost all you rabid liberals out yonder,even if you are.
        -CC.

      • Karolyn

        Thank you for that, cawmun. We really are all in this together. Merry Christmas to you too! :-)

      • Joe H.

        Kate8,
        If I can’t exercise my freedom of expression and speech, then I would rather BE on that list!!!

      • Robert Smith

        From cawmun cents: “They think that the way to happiness is via mob rule.”

        I’m sure Dr. Tiller, Dr. Gunn, and many others will agree with you.

        It seems so christian… Let’s go kill a few in our god’s name.

        Rob

      • cawmun cents

        Said the man with the red dot in the middle of the target on his forehead.
        Cheers!
        -CC.

      • DaveH

        The inevitable reality of Socialism:
        http://holodomorct.org/

      • DaveH

        Why are you so obsessed, Robert, by what others believe?

      • Alex Frazier

        Because deep down he believes it himself and has to prove it to himself that he doesn’t. It’s like an adulterer who accuses his spouse of adultery. It’s the old “whoever smealt it dealt it” argument. He has to rag on Christianity because he secretly or subconsciously believes it might be true.

      • Kate8

        Robert Smith – You just have to insert your Christian jabs and slurs at every possible opportunity.

        I have never known any Christian who is as nasty and disagreeable than you are.

        Your energy comes across as very dark, even through your posts. I’m so glad you are not among my acquaintances.

      • Joe H.

        Kate8,
        robert is the kind of friend that you keep closer than your enemy!! and you NEVER let him get BEHIND you!!!
        Merry Christmas, my friend and may all your needs and wants be met in due time!! God Bless!!!

      • eddie47d

        Thanks for the “publicity” gentlemen. Shows much about what goes on between the ears of UNcawmun cents. These incarceration figures have been around for a couple of decades and the rates started piling up since 1993. There are actually over 4 million in the criminal justice system in any given year. That would include those on parole and in local jails. Some serious crimes occur much less often yet citizens are arrested for minor infractions at a greater rate.They are also given longer prison sentences without much rehabilatation.That means when they get out they are more likely to re offend and we all get put on the same merry-go round of increases taxes. The things is Mr “Cents” these figures have been around a lot longer than any protest movement so you are full of petty BS.

      • cawmun cents

        Have you ever been robbed at gunpoint?
        Have you ever been assaulted by an angry person?
        Have you ever had something you worked very hard for stolen from you?
        Have you been there when a collector for a drug debt came to collect?
        Have you been shot at indisriminately because you were present?
        Have you held someones hand who was dying because they were shot in a violent crime and watched the life fleet away?
        I know a few career criminals.
        I have watched them commit their crimes.
        Fortunately for me,I never had the stomach to break the rules that way.
        I have stayed within the boundaries of the law for the most part because I dont like when crimes are perpetrated against me,so why would I enjoy doing them to others?
        Yopu think some of these folks dont belong in prison,I get that.
        But what about the ones who reallly do belong in prison,but get convicted of a crime that you dont think merits prison time.
        The ones that go and commit crimes which they are never even accused of?The ones that get away with crimes that arent on the books?
        What about the victims of those crimes?
        I dont here your benevolence crying out for them.
        You are a sham and a charlatan,sir,who inst even worthy of the contempt I have for you.
        Go ahead and advocate for the criminals.Its your leftist duty.
        But I hope you eventually choke on it.
        -CC.

      • Platoon Sergeant Chee

        Review the facts from THE INNOCENCE PROJECT; they have freed many men
        from death row who were WRONGFULLY convicted by criminals who
        operate in court rooms daily. You could become a victim of
        misconduct; by officers of the court, but you don’t believe it—–yet! DNA is proving more and more wrongful convictions; often after
        as much as 25-years of wrongful conviction and incarceration. Pity
        those wrongfully convicted where no DNA is present. The IP only
        takes cases where DNA is an element that was exculpatory evidence withheld by persecuting prosecutors and where defense atty’s failed to defend as they are both sworn to do. Those who side with the state are as self deluding as those who unjustly side with actual criminals.

      • cawmun cents

        Define”many”Platoon Seargent….
        By the way,thank you for your service to this nation,Merry Christmas,Best Regards.-CC.

      • DaveH

        http://reason.com/archives/2010/02/08/how-many-more-are-innocent

        How many innocent victims of the State is tolerable? Who do we get to punish the State for its crimes on humanity?

      • eddie47d

        Apparently it is your American duty as a proud right winger to incarcerate any one you can round up. Don’t be too poor or unemployed for you will surely snag them as the enemy. If you don’t like those homeless jail them. If you can’t stand homosexuals “a little jail time with do them good”. You went after that one in your first sentence at 8:10. We get it you want to rid the world of vermin but it has to be your choice who the winners and losers are.If someone Assembles for free speech you will join the “the good guys” and see to it that these “incorrigibles” will disappear or be taught a lesson to shut their mouths. You could have gotten your point across without the swill but we know it is hard for you. Maybe you should “choke” on the fact that you look down on a awful lot of people in life.

      • DaveH

        Maybe, Eddie, you could share a little bit of that room you have under the bridge.

      • eddie47d

        All this time I thought you all said I live in my mommies basement! Now which is it? You know Dave there are a lot of Veterans who comeback traumatized and live under those bridges so how about lending a helping hand.

      • DaveH

        Your Mommy’s basement? Nope. It wasn’t me who said that. I’ve always maintained that you lived under a bridge. Isn’t that where trolls live?

      • Joe H.

        eddie,
        you misunderstood!! We said your mommy owns the bridge you live under!! Does that clear it up for you?? BTW, Merry Christmas!!!!

  • FreedomFighter

    Ron Paul 2012

    Laus Deo
    Semper Fi

    • Neil Walden

      RON PAUL 2012 Semper Fi

      • Brian

        AND again….Ron Paul 2012!

      • Andrea B

        Again and again…Ron Paul 2012!!

      • Kane Bittner

        And yet again; Ron Paul 2012!
        It’s gonna get real interesting when the “politicians” find these “laws” that they are constantly creating being used to charge them with crimes against the people!

      • sean e.stanton

        Dr.Ron Paul 2012

      • skippy

        I pray the America I know and love will AGREE as we do……Ron Paul 2012!!!

      • Joe H.

        Can you use one more??? RON PAUL/ANDREW NAPOLITANO 2012!!!!

      • Larry

        ,,,,,,,,,,,and ALWAYS AGAIN RON PAUL 2012. We need him, for America’s sake.

      • Alex Frazier

        Too good to pass up. Ron Paul 2012!

      • BJHQi

        BOOYAH!!! Ron Paul 2012!!!

      • http://google Richard Wood

        Hay did you know you could be fined up to $37,000 per day per offence for not wearing gloves while painting a house that may have led paint? Our EPA has gone crazy making rediculous laws to eleminate the middle class. OSHA and EPA droans having never worked a day in there lives and are conspiring to save the world by eleminating the middle class. That is just the tip of the iceberg. Washington is out of control.

      • Ernie

        Ron Paul ? Not this Marine !
        SF

      • Joe H.

        Ernie,
        Your demise, marine, your demise!!!!

      • DaveH

        Let’s stop the Theft!
        Ron Paul 2012!
        http://www.ronpaul2012.com/

  • cawmun cents

    Too many law makers,means eventually,you will break a law.-CC.

    • Vicki

      Interesting that many/most of those laws are felonies. That results in theoretical forfeiture of your 2nd amendment rights for life. I am not sure the Creator would be happy with that.

      • DaveH

        And I defy anybody to point to that exception in the 2nd Amendment saying that it only applies to those who haven’t been convicted of a felony.

      • Robert Smith

        Why on Earth would you want to see a convicted violent fellon carrying a gun?

        Non-violent I’m comfortable with after some period of time, but how can you justify giving a violent offender a gun?

        Rob

      • Andrea B

        Because the law doesn’t make a distinction between violent and non-violent. If you’ve ever been convicted of a felony, you’re never allowed to legally own a firearm again.

        Sounds good on the outside, but when you consider that they’ve made everything a felony, it takes 2nd Amendment rights away from more non-violent felons than the violent ones. Felons that have committed murder or armed robbery shouldn’t be allowed to own one, but if they make it an ‘all or nothing’ issue, I say we should ALL have guns, and let the criminals take their chances against an armed citizenry.

        With regard to bearing arms, the founders considered it not just a right, but a DUTY to protect yourself, your family, and your property. We all know that when seconds count, the police are minutes away…

        Ron Paul 2012–He stands firm with the founders on 2nd Amendment rights.

      • CP

        Most felonies are now classified as violent crimes, believe it or not. Of course, no one tells you that spending time in most prisons is nothing but an education in how to commit more crimes and get away with them. If there is ANYTHING you want to learn about, it can be learned about in prison, be it good or bad.

      • sean e.stanton

        What the “LAW” labels violent is a far cry from REALITY!
        Many so-called DOMESTIC VIOLENCE cases are pursued by the STATE only.
        No victim no crime no longer exists.Too many American’are or have been incarcerated for “TERRORISTIC THREATS”…If you are accused of saying to someone “Ill kick your ass” it is seen as a violent crime.
        A well written article I read in a European news magazine with a cover picture,depicted red,white and blue cell bar’s with dollar signs as cross bar’s stated “Crime Does Pay”
        The incarceration rate is alarming and,in my opinion,a ploy to create financial strife,and reduce the number of American’s that may LEGALLY own a firearm.

      • Ron

        In New Jersey if you own, sell, destroy or purchase a magazine with a capacity of greater than 15 rounds, you are a Felon, this includes .22. If I go to the range with a hand gun and stop for lunch with the gun in the trunk, I am a Felon. If I have a rifle with a flash suppressor, a collapsible stock or sound suppressor, I am a Felon. I can go on and on about the laws which limit us in this state to be walking victims of either those willing to do us bodily harm or those looking to incarcerate us for breaking the laws preventing us from protecting ourselves but I think you get the point I’m trying to make. Everything is not cut and dry. Not all felons are so bad that they should have their second amendment rights revoked. You think the country as a whole is a “police state”? Come to New Jersey to see what your future holds if we continue on the current path. Ron Paul for President 2012!

      • DaveH

        Every man (and woman) has a right to defend themselves, Robert. Do you really think not having a gun stops a violent person from being violent?

      • DaveH

        Did you know, Robert, that one of the questions they ask when applying for a handgun permit in California is whether or not you have a restraining order against you?
        Restraining orders are issued like candy when people go through divorce court.
        California’s bewildering restrictions on weapons:
        http://oag.ca.gov/sites/all/files/pdfs/firearms/forms/pdf/Cfl2007.pdf
        So much for peoples’ 2nd Amendment rights not being “infringed”.

      • FireMall

        So , Something as simple as Screwing up on one’s income tax filing and getting convicted of a Tax evasion felony means the convicted felon now , no longer has any rights to Self Protection for him /her self as well as no longer having the Right to protect their families either ?
        No reply needed considering I am obviously responding to someone that actually thinks taking people’s self protection rights away will make the world safer.

      • Karolyn

        Dave – Here in SC, if someone is found guilty of CDV (criminal domestic violence), they cannot own any firearms. In my experience here, restraining orders are only given out if there is a threat of bodily harm; so in that case it is certainly advisable to prohibit the ownership of firearms.

      • vicki

        Robert Smith buys into the statist propaganda by writing that he would not want a convicted (violent) felon to EVER again posses the best tool for self and community defense.

        So. Ron. You planning on guarding the (now Ex-convict) for the rest of his life? He paid his debt to society for his crime(s). Were you planning on punishing him for the rest of his life? What incentive does he have if you won’t let him defend himself from his ex-fellow felons that haven’t been caught. What incentive does he have to stay straight if so many people won’t hire ex-cons.

        What is to stop him from using a bat or bow?

        What is to stop him from using a car. Cars are actually more useful to most crimes than a gun is.

        If he REALLY is dangerous to society why did you let him out of prison to begin with? Oh wait. Didn’t the Congress and Obama just solve that problem with indefinite detention without even bothering with messy things like trials?

      • James

        Because Robbie as Jefferson said NO free man shall be “debarred the use of weapons to defend himself” the only reason a convicted felon should be set free is if he/she is no longer a threat to society

      • DaveH

        Karolyn,
        There’s always a threat of bodily harm. It depends on one’s perception.
        You remind me of an article I saw posted on the courthouse wall as I was waiting to get reamed by the system. It said something to this effect — “2 women have been murdered recently by their ex-husbands, even though they both had restraining orders on them”. Doo Doo Doo Doo. It doesn’t take an enlarged brain to figure that one out. Restraining orders, like gun laws, only stop the decent people who wouldn’t commit such acts in the first place.
        Government ultimately desires for all citizens to be disarmed so that Government can operate contemptuously of our Freedom without fear. And they work towards that goal as fast as the blindered sheeple will allow them to.

      • Joe H.

        robbie,
        considering there are PROG judges out there that have convicted people of murder for the LEGAL defense of hearth and home, there are a great many “violent” offender out there that I wouldn’t hesitate to allow to carry a gun! I would bet that if your life was in jeopardy and a person with a gun was standing near by, you wouldn’t say ” wait, are you a violent felon?” you would just pray he wanted to save your life!!

      • http://thatswaytoomuch.info Snotme

        If a former felon wants to get a gun he can. If a former felon wants to legally own a gun he cannot.
        If a former felon who is trying to be a good citizen and live by the law and not be a criminal any longer, one would think Americans would encourage him to do so rather than continuing to punish him forever.

      • James

        Snotme, There is some thinking in Congress that is the felony was not of a violent nature, like tax evasion, then the felon’s right should be restored. However, most congressmen don’t want any American to have the right to keep and bear.

      • Meteorlady

        So Robert how do you even know they are violent? Marijuana is a felony and is considered above Cocaine by the Federal drug laws. A neighbor just got busted for having marijuana in his motorhome and that’s the end for him. He’s a medical user, but if federal picks you up, you are tried and put away or on probation. In his case he lost his motorhome and spent 6 months in jail.

      • James

        DaveH I see you’re still confusing the right to bear with the 2nd Amendment. The Amendment is a restriction on infringement of the right, it is not the right. Rights are unalienable.

    • Warrior

      All in the spirit of creating good little compliant sheeple.

      • skippy

        Well said Warrior….I AGREE!!
        CCW here!!!

    • Old Henry

      Here is a perfect example of why the public, and all demonstrators, need to be armed to the teeth at all times.

      http://www.brasschecktv.com/page/3956.html

      • skip

        And they are doing a pretty good job of shooting the hell out each other already, usually for vengeance or from anger. The random nonsensical gun murder rate in this country far exceeds our losses in Iraq, Afghanistan, etc. Have at it boys and girls – there are plenty of “sheepies” out there for you to gun down, if not for vengeance, why not for sport or just to thin out their ranks. The Battle Cry for Freedom, yes?

      • Joe H.

        skip,
        and yet not one of those weapons fired itself!!! guns don’t kill people! People kill people!!!

      • Alex Frazier

        No offense skip, but more people die each year in accidental falls than they do from firearm homicides. That’s a fact. Check the CDC. Don’t buy into the propaganda machine that would have us believe a child is gunned down every thirty seconds. It’s not true.

        And Joe is right. Guns don’t fire themselves. If I put my gun down on your kitchen table, it will sit there from now until the end of creation and never kill a soul. It takes a wielder to make it a weapon. People kill people. Guns are just one of a very wide variety of tools they use to get the job done.

      • Alex Frazier

        Videos like that show us why it’s time for an armed protest. And I don’t mean an armed action, but a peaceful armed protest. Let them try that crap with twenty thousand firearms present.

        That, of course, is why we have the second amendment in the first place. Because this is what governments inevitably do.

    • Jack

      Another part of this issue: Construction Contracting Crimes (a Felony Level Crime in States requiring a contractors license to do a buiding trade) – EXAMPLE: during this finacial depresion (colapse)a 25 year experienced roofer by trade, a craftsman! losses his job, cannot feed his family, can’t pay his bills, losing his families home, and his credit, doesn’t want to see his family in the streets begging for food because he can’t do his trade and make money, starts to work on his own without a State License. (He never persude being a contractor because he never needed or wanted to, it takes a minimum 6 mounths or more to get approved in CA and thousands of dollars for all the government required insurances, bonds, and fees) becouse of this desperation he started doing jobs on the side. He is so good at his trade he always has happy customers that refer him. Contractors find out about him and call the authorities (Gov.) they arrest him. His life is destroyed and he loses his 2nd ammendment rights and is labled a Criminal FELON and now must deal with all the stuff a Muderer or Armed Robber deals with when trying to enter back into society.
      All this because he WORKED HIS TRADE to care for his family!
      THe persuit of happyness!

      • skip

        I agree and sympathize – it is the 1% screwing the 99%.

      • Joe H.

        skip,
        they are the 1% only if the government is the 1%!! The GOVERNMENT makes the rules and the government ENFORCES the rules. most of those contractors reporting that “freelance” roofer are probably clearing less than 300,000 a year. that does not put them into the 1%!!

      • WickedPickle

        I agree with you Joe.. I think it goes beyond the % rating.. A secret number that no one can recognize so they accuse the 1%.. This hidden number includes bullies and border line racists that the hidden % uses to create injustice.. It’s like a chess game to these hidden %’s and any pawn is disposable.. We can’t find the scum that’s pulling the strings that creates these bullies and racists to gain (temporary) power, but it’s causing us to shoot our wads in paranoiac stages, killing off the gum chewers and creating more ‘scape goats for the hidden who in turn wash their hands and tell us it’s our fault because we voted them in. A swift, clean extraction could reveal these ‘hidden’.. Ron Paul knows who they are.. He can get it done and if he can’t, if he’s playing the political game like all the rest, then learn from it like you’ve learned in the past and bump his ass out as well.

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