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Government Declares War On Lemonade Stands

October 14, 2011 by  

Government Declares War On Lemonade Stands

Let’s switch for a bit from the deadly serious to the merely very irritating.

Last week, I pondered whether the U.S. is now sanctioning murder. Please click here if you didn’t read that very important column. So much more has come out about the slaying of Anwar al-Awlaki, and there has been so much confusion and controversy, that I’ll definitely return to the topic very soon.

But today, I want to talk about one of the most ridiculous results of our Big Nanny government run amok. It is the startling fact that all across the country, children are being told that their lemonade stands are against the law. And not just lemonade stands, but sales of Girl Scout cookies and Japanese green tea have also been declared enemies of the State.

I kid you not. In community after community, these budding entrepreneurs are being told to pack it up and scoot before they’re charged with various violations. In some instances, in fact, fines have been levied.

I’m beholden to the Freedom Center of Missouri, a relatively new public policy group in the Show Me State, for documenting the following list of outrages. Please note that all of these occurred this year. Such crackdowns are becoming more and more common.

Aug. 6: Massachusetts State police shut down the stand of a 12-year-old refugee from Fukushima, Japan, who was selling green tea he brought with him when he and his family evacuated after the tsunami.

Aug. 1: Police officers in Coralville, Iowa, ordered at least three sets of children to quit selling lemonade during the Register’s Annual Great Bike Ride Across Iowa unless they first got a vendor’s permit and a health inspection. This is the first known example of a coordinated set of shutdowns at a single time.

July 19: In McAllen, Texas, authorities shut down a girl’s lemonade stand for failing to obtain a food permit and threatened a grandmother who protested with a $50 fine.

July 17: Police in Appleton, Wis., inform children that despite legally selling lemonade and cookies in their front yard during an annual city festival for the past several years, a new city ordinance bans these sales. The reason? To protect licensed vendors from competition. How’s that for a great example of how America works?

July 15: Cops in Midway, Ga., shut down a lemonade stand some children were running in their own front yard, saying the kids had to obtain a peddler’s license and a food license and pay $50 per day for a temporary business permit.

June 16: A county inspector in Maryland closes kids’ lemonade stand and fines parents $500 for violating county law.

June 10: The Philadelphia Department of Health shuts down a lemonade stand operated by a cancer charity because it lacked a necessary permit and — get this — didn’t install a hand-washing station.

March 7: Officials in Hazelwood, Mo., said a cookie stand in a family’s driveway violated local ordinances and ordered an end to the Girl Scouts cookie sale.

Feb. 26: Georgia police demanded the closure of a Girl Scout cookie stand until the girls obtained a peddler’s permit.

Feb. 26: Savannah, Ga., officials determined that city ordinances require an end to a 40-year tradition of Girl Scouts selling cookies outside the historic home of the organization’s founder.

Is this a world gone crazy or what?

I wish I could tell you that the evil triumvirate of Nancy Pelosi, Harry Reid and Barack Obama were responsible for this nuttiness. But they aren’t. In virtually every case, the culprits were local officials obeying local ordinances. So much for my long-held conviction that the closer you can bring government to the citizenry, the more fair and efficient it will be. Clearly, in the communities described above, some petty bureaucrats have an awful lot of time on their hands.

Have you heard of a similar outrage in your community? If you have, please notify the good folks at the Freedom Center of Missouri at www.mofreedom.org. They have a national map on their website where they like to track such things.

I thought of a way we can turn this absurd negative into a bit of a positive. And that is by asking you to share an inspiring story from your own youth when you demonstrated the same entrepreneurial spark as the youngsters above. What happened as a result?

I’ll start. My first money-making effort, besides a long list of chores that earned me a weekly allowance, was setting up a roadside lemonade stand along the highway that ran past our house.

What I didn’t consider, and what neither parent pointed out to me, was that the two-lane highway was in rural Ohio and that cars zipped by at 50 miles an hour. Want to guess how many slammed on the brakes and backed up a few hundred yards so they could buy our lemonade?

None. Our only customer in three days was a nice neighbor who knew we were there and came to a stop in front of our house. My younger brother, who was my partner in the enterprise, got pretty discouraged after the first hour or two. Because I was older and bigger, however, I made him keep at it for two more days.

Truth be told, I didn’t mind our lack of success. First of all, I had all the lemonade to drink I wanted. Second, I always had a book handy and could wile away the quiet hours with one of the Black Beauty stories or Tom Swift and his electric whatever. It didn’t take much to keep me happy in those days.

But during the third day, I finally threw in the towel. I had had enough of my brother’s complaining. Besides, he came up with an alternative idea that made sense to me.

“Why don’t we walk along the highway and pick up all the empty bottles we find,” he suggested. “We can take them to the store in town and collect the deposit on them. Then we can spend it on Coke, candy and comic books.”

Like any brother, Jeff knew all my weaknesses. I wasn’t that crazy about Coke or candy; in fact, I preferred a root beer float. But the chance to purchase a brand-new comic book, and not wait until my monthly haircut to read whatever remnant of a comic book I could find in our neighborhood barbershop, was irresistible.

So we went inside and each took a pillowcase from our bed. Then we started searching the roadside and gutter for castoffs.

You’ll probably be surprised to learn how successful our efforts were. As I recall, we received 2 cents for every small glass bottle we found and a nickel for the larger ones. After a couple of hours of effort, I think we’d each earned a dollar or two. That may not sound like much today, but back in the early 1950s, it was a king’s ransom — or at least enough for several comic books and candy.

The whole experience was a great lesson for us. Our parents made sure we realized there was no such thing in this world as something for nothing. If you wanted something, you had to earn it. As the Lord said in Genesis 3:19, “By the sweat of your brow will you have food to eat until you return to the ground from which you were made” (NLT).

I wish I saw more examples of today’s youngsters working as hard for their spending money as we did a generation or two ago. Kids today take their $100 sneakers and jeans for granted as well as their $200 electronic gizmos.

Would they actually be better off if they had to trudge down the highway, picking up empty soda and beer bottles to earn a few extra dollars? You tell me.

Until next time, keep some powder dry.

–Chip Wood

 

Chip Wood

is the geopolitical editor of PersonalLiberty.com. He is the founder of Soundview Publications, in Atlanta, where he was also the host of an award-winning radio talk show for many years. He was the publisher of several bestselling books, including Crisis Investing by Doug Casey, None Dare Call It Conspiracy by Gary Allen and Larry Abraham and The War on Gold by Anthony Sutton. Chip is well known on the investment conference circuit where he has served as Master of Ceremonies for FreedomFest, The New Orleans Investment Conference, Sovereign Society, and The Atlanta Investment Conference.

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  • chilichld

    Al-Awlaki ? Bonnie and Clyde were ambushed in Louisiana , and pictures of the car are on line ; they show extreme determination to kill . As for free commerce , we are becoming a Marxist society . We elected one to be president , and he is not even a U.S. citizen . He would have citizenship if his mother lived in the U.S. for 5 years after the age of 14 , but she gave birth at the age of 18 , so do the math . Why does he use a social security number from Connecticut ? He never lived there .

    • Dntmkmecmoverther

      I thought Bonnie and Clyde ‘bought it’ in Dexter Iowa…?

      • Jibbs

        Clyde’s brother Ivan ‘Buck’ Barrow was fatally wounded during a shootout with police in Iowa on July 29, 1933.

    • DaveH

      Bonnie and Clyde killed around a dozen Policemen and Civilians.
      Awlaki was guilty of having a big mouth (so they say). Quite a difference. If it’s okay to kill people for what they say, then there wouldn’t be many of us left standing.

      • Jibbs

        Your right! Oh boy, I think I hear the sound of boots marching down my driveway……honey please the lock the door.

  • Alex Frazier

    When I was a kid, I tried the lemonade thing. Didn’t work out too well. I remember giving it away to the friends that came by, and I don’t remember making a single dime.

    But when I was a little older and permitted to use the lawn mower, I did cut grass for $10 a yard. I used the money to go to the skating rink. It was just enough to get in, get a slice of pizza, and a soda.

    A friend and I also went around the neighborhood and knocked on doors offering car washes for $5. That went well for a while. But that was what I like to consider my first real experience with retail service. I enjoyed it, until the first time a nit-picky customer whined and complained over something petty. We were only about ten years old. Perfection isn’t something that should have been expected, although if I do say so myself, I thought we did a pretty good job.

    I suppose I simply learned from an early age that there’s no pleasing some people.

    I also did as Chip did. I used to collect the glass soda bottles I could find along the road side and out in the field. I used to get $.10 each for them. With a little dedicated effort, I would make enough to catch the bus and get McDonald’s. $4-$5 used to buy quite a bit back in the day.

    So I’d have to say that starting around age 12, I was a serious tax evader, with earning from a landscaping business, a private detailing business, and some capital gains on soda commodities. And I wasn’t a licensed business owner for any of those ventures. What a wicked child I was.

    • Lewis Munn

      I’m telling Holder on you! He’ll be after you fast and furiously!

    • http://www.diyyardandhome.com Dan

      I hated retail. My first job experience was going door to door selling dolls my mom made dresses for. These where wide hooped dresses where you could hide a roll of toilet paper under and in the dolls hands was a card saying “when uncertain, when in doubt, just turn me over and I’ll help you out”. Needless to say a 6 year old boy selling dolls that hid toilet paper was embarrassing and I’ve never liked any type of salesman job since then. So instead I became a professional killer. First in the Navy for 20 years and then owning a pest control business for 10. My mom loves to tell strangers that it’s her fault one of her sons became a professional killer.

      • DaveH

        Funny story, Dan.

      • Jibbs

        ROLMAO!!! hehehe!!

    • http://donthaveone Beberoni

      I had that nit pick guy, except in a different form. The guy said he would give us 2 bucks each to shovel his big old long driveway. So me and my buddy shoveled it, went to the door when we were done, and the guy gives us a total of 2 bucks. We said, “no, it was 2 bucks each”. To which he said sorry, and closed the door in our face. So, being that fair is fair, since he only paid us half of what he said he would, we proceeded to work our butts off, and re-shoveled all that snow we took off the whole driveway, and filled half of it back up with all the snow we removed. Right at the end, he must have heard us, and came out yelling and complaining, to which I told him, “you paid half, you only get half shoveled pal. Then we left. Justice was served.

      • Alex Frazier

        Freakin’ awesome! lol

      • Jay

        Serves the prick right!

      • JeffH

        …luv it! Serves him right…

  • Dave

    Chip:

    In the examples you gave, it was not “petty bureaucrats” who enacted the ordinances, with no exemptions for children or charities. It was elected officials. Way too often, the poorest elected officials are found at the lowest levels of government.

    • DaveH

      Much of the time bureaucrats stretch the laws well past their original intentions.

  • Darrell

    No one is going to get 100% of what you want in life but 75% is not too much to expect.
    But with all of the examples sited in the article are quite simply government run amok. Yes their is corruption in local government and until the people get involved in their local government they are going to be regulated to no end.
    Much of this is not only to silence any decent but if ones wishes to participate in the great American dream it is for sale by the government through taxes, regulatory fees (taxes) license fees (taxes)and permitting fees(taxes).Any further questions?

    • Lewis Munn

      That list is starting to tax my mind!!

  • Hilary Gavenda

    My first real job was running door to door putting carpet cleaning coupons on them…for a penny a piece, took me all day to earn $10.00!!!!!!!!!!! I did all the normal stuff like mow lawns and sell lemonade but I will never forget running my a** off for that money. As to the whole shutting down stands thing…you can almost bet that a neighbor was involved in notifying the authorities…..That is the worst part of this …they turn us against each other.

    • Ret

      Think that’s bad, wait until janet’s brainwashing really gets going, she’s going to make hitler and stalin look like lightweights.

    • JeffH

      Pulling weeds and clearing brush was how I started, maybe 12-13 years old…then at 15 I was washing my neighbors dump truck once a week until he taught me how to service it…$5.00 + I got to clear the weeds from the iceplant on the side of their hill…at 17 I started driving delivery on Sundays for the little pharmacy and then added a second job pumping gas at the Jim Tucker’s Shell station in El Sobrante…I also planted birds for field trials on some weekends for my the German Shorthair Club at $20 a weekend…paid for my hunting supplies and shotgun shells. We even tried the lemonade stand but there wasn’t enough traffic to really make anything…but neighbors would stop…just to help out if for no other reason and they always had something nice or constructive to say.

      We were encouraged to look for jobs, no matter how small, ’cause the folks weren’t well off and they encouraged peronal responsibility. If I wanted someting, I had to earn it, and that hasn’t changed now.

      My ,my how “Marxist/communist/socialist/progressives” have changed the face of our society…it’s way past time to take America back.

      • http://donthaveone Beberoni

        From the time I was 12 years old and on, my dad said if you want money for a new ball glove, cleats, maybe a new bat if I broke my old one, as remember when kids bats were wood? Or maybe a hockey stick in winter, or a basketball or football. I was taught that if you wanted something, you worked for it. I remember establishing myself a route for lawn mowing, where I did so many on tuesdays and so many on thursdays. $2.00 a lawn. Same thing in the winter. Shovel the walk for 1.00, and 2.00 more for the driveway on those long driveways that were 100 yards long. But you know, Id knock down pretty close to 100.00 a week, and that funded my sports habits pretty darn well. And, it taught me the value of a dollar, and to know I could take care of myself and not have to depend on someone else to take care of me. 12 years old. Amazing how I see 25 to 30 year olds, sitting on porches drinking beer in a bag and smoking cigs all day, but they depend on the government to subsidize their living. I know a lot of these guys. They collect welfare, food stamps, WIC, and get other handouts from the township office and the United Way and such, and its unbelievable. And they act like they are proud of getting all this stuff free. When I remind them that Im paying for it, I dont even get a thank you for it. Simply amazing. How is it that a 12 year old boy gets it, but a grown adult doesnt? It baffles me.

    • DaveH

      Yep, just like they did in the USSR. That is the hallmark of Socialist societies (getting citizens to rat each other out to the authorities).

      • JeffH

        Snitching…a practice that is encouraged by government…

        If you want to snitch on your neighbors to the federal government, you’re in luck! There’s an app for that!

        A new iPhone App with the misleading name ‘PatriotApp’ attempts to draw on the power of the patriot movement, turning smartphone users into a gigantic snitch network.

        You might think an app with such a patriotic name might have useful functions like a pocket constitution or quotes from our forefathers. But contrary to the services one might expect, this app allows users to report any ‘suspicious’ behavior directly linking them with top government agencies.
        http://lonelyconservative.com/2010/12/wanna-snitch-on-your-neighbor-theres-an-app-for-that/

      • http://donthaveone Beberoni

        Thats also the work of Satan to snitch out like that. Its plain gossip is what it is. I know Im a Christian and your not Dave, but it is written, that if I have a problem with someone, Im to go to them with it, and get to the bottom of it, not to go gossip to someone else about it. That is straight from the bowels of Satan himself.

      • JeffH

        Beberoni, to add to that, DaveH has a good set of morals based on his personal belief in freedom and liberty…a trait to be admired of anyone, atheist or not.

      • DaveH

        As somebody else pointed out, there are so many laws now that all of us can’t help breaking one or the other. So if somebody dislikes us, it’s pretty easy to bring the Force of Government down on us.
        When I got divorced my evil brother suggested that I should plant drugs in my ex-wife’s car and give an anonymous tip to the police.

      • http://donthaveone Beberoni

        That was down right rotten of him. And JeffH is right Dave, you appear on these threads to have a higher standard of morals than a lot of Christians I know, and some so called Christians I know. But all should know, that slick old satan has his emmisaries embedded in a lot of churches also, just to put a nasty taste in peoples mouths to keep them turned off to the idea. Its a fact.

  • Jimbo

    at 76 i still pick up bottles. but where i lived was also rural so no buisness possibilities existed. but i worked for 2 farmer brothers on thier 4 farms at the age of 12 untill 17 whenever i was not in school, nights and weekends.

  • http://www.freedomspitchfork.blogspot.com VWmama

    Where is your tweet button?

  • Hanginjudge

    Why do the people who post on this website bother to respond to lick spittle progressives like Ron? You can’t promote sanity by slapping back at insanity. He’s never going to get it! No Ron! Obama isn’t to blame for “all” of the stupidity that is going on in this country. Liberals like yourself are to blame for it. Just as they are to blame for electing a completely unqualified fool to occupy the most powerful position in the world, rendering it the laughingstock of the world by so doing.

    The Ron’s of the world should be ignored, but I have to admit its fun to engage in a fight with someone wielding a butter knife for a weapon. Keep up the good work Ron you’re very entertaining and you do expose the sane world to what it must be like to live in the Cuckoo’s nest.

    • F86

      Hope you recover from that labotomy – someday

      • Lewis Munn

        Anybody note to him that F86′s are so obsolete they don’t exist except in some museums?

      • http://donthaveone Beberoni

        The guy makes a perfectly legitimate statement, full bearing of the truth, and that is your response? How liberal of you.

    • DaveH

      I think Ron’s people did us all a favor. Instead of our Big Government growing imperceptibly Bigger, Obama in his inexperienced bumbling has awakened the American people like they haven’t been for over 150 years. People are finally taking Freedom, and Freedom Lovers like Ron Paul, seriously like never before in my lifetime. There are a huge number of heavily propagandized citizens to still be awakened but we are definitely on the right road. I think that Obama has opened Pandora’s box and it isn’t going to be easy to get that lid back down.

      • http://donthaveone Beberoni

        I noted that in an earlier post Dave, that for years the democrats tried to hide who they really were, but Obama in his prideful arrogance, has fully opened up this box, and exposed the left wing liberals for who they really are, and its a damn scary thing. We owe him a thanks though, because like you said, he has made people wonder about freedom and make us think about it more than a little bit, as he and his ilk seem to threaten it more and more every day.

  • http://riverofjoy-crimea.blogspot.com/ David Hallowell

    When I was nine years old my family moved up in the Sierras on the scenic route to Yosemite. Many tourists came through and some stopped at my aunt’s general store. We were asked by some tourists one day if we could find them some pine cones! Sure we could. They were everywhere. They actually paid us for them!
    We thought the tourists were kind of stupid not to go get some free for themselves but soon we had a roadside pine cone business. The profit margin was nearly 100% and we had fun collecting and selling them. We were far enough out in the boonies nobody messed with us either. If they had done so pine cones make great sticky bombs.

    • JeffH

      That’s a good example and the spirit of a free market system… :)

      • http://donthaveone Beberoni

        Exactly. If youve got something people want, and you sell it at a price they are willing to pay, then your on to something good. Too bad the government interfere’s constantly with that. Darn shame.

      • Karolyn

        Hi Beberoni – I have done that my whole adult life. I started out making tissue paper flowers in the 70s, made grapevine and white birch wreaths in the 80s, dried flower arrangements in the 90s; and in the 2000s have sold handmade jewelry, antiques, collectibles, pinecones, pecan trees dug from a man’s yard, minerals found rock collecting, whatever I could sell. Unfortunately, the money I could make 10 years ago is no longer there, either because of too many people vying for a piece of the pie or just a lack of discretionary funds to spend. We live in a much tougher world these days.

      • Song

        Or Karolyn, you just aren’t selling what people want. People, (even the “poor”) have no problem shelling out the bucks for their cell phones, Ipads and laptops and all the accessories that go with them :D And, they are still buying brand name clothes and going to the movies and attending house parties for candles, home decor and make up….

      • http://donthaveone Beberoni

        If youve got what people want, they will buy it. Ever notice all these people that dont have jobs, still have money to buy alcohol and cigs?

  • Jeryl

    There’s always the story of the little boy who was trying to sell a hound dog for $1,000 on the side of the road. A passerby stopped, laughed and said the boy might need to lower the price a bit. The little boy just shook his head and said, “Naw, mister, he’s worth it.” The next day the passerby noticed a sold sign at the stand where the hound dog sat. He saw the little boy in the yard and just had to stop. “Say, son, did you really sell that hound dog for $1000. “No,” the little boy replied proundly, “I traded him for two $500 cats.”

  • Big Daddy

    this is teh direct result of allowing petty bureaucrats to continue to attempt to rule our lives.
    Wake up people and run these people out of town along with their rediculous exuses for legislation and ordinances.

    • Dntmkmecmoverther

      AAAAAAAmen! Vote them out; all of ‘em in 2012!

      • Angel Wannabe

        D, Voting them out is all well and good, problem is we vote other folks in there(tEA pARTY) and nothing changes. I think its time we the American people open up our eyes and see, it not who we nominate,to go to Washington to represent, it’s WHO THAT COUNTS THE VOTES decides the WIN! We haven’t had a voice in a very long time, the elites let us think we do!

      • Jibbs
      • Angel Wannabe

        I saved it Jibbs, will read it in a bit!__Looks as if they have the right idea!

      • eddie47d

        You should have left your thread on the first page which emphasises the safety and happiness of all Americans and correctly does so. Then it turns into a diatribe against Democrats and goes down hill from there. More conquer and divide drivel from someone trying to push their personal agenda.

      • http://donthaveone Beberoni

        Its got to be a diatribe against the democrats eddie. They are dangerous and are killing us. The republicans unfortunately seemingly have lost their way and have gotten themselves caught up in the “reaching across the aisle” thing and are failing these days also. They have lost their conservative roots, and they are endangering themselves just as the democrats have. If they dont get back to being the conservatives they are supposed to, I will dump them like a bad habit as I did the democrats when Reagan came around, and have watched the dems slowly but surely, year after year, climb the rungs of hell lower and lower, to where they have become so far gone, its pathetic. JFK is rolling over in his grave seeing what has happened to his party. No doubt about it.

      • Angel Wannabe

        Beberoni, If JFK were alive today, he’d be considered a Conservative!_

      • http://donthaveone Beberoni

        You are absolutely correct Angel.

      • Wu Ming Ren

        Don’t give up on the Tea Party so quickly. Politics is a process, not an event. We put a lot of good conservatives into office in 2010, but not enough to override an Obama veto and not enough to change control of the Senate. Hang in there. We need you to stay focused on not only 2012, but every election from here on out. No more complacency or faintheartedness, but constant vigilance and persistent effort to put good conservatives into office, into control, and keep them there. Stick with the process and don’t expect a single election to right all forever more. We’ve got work to do. We’ve got work to keep doing. Be of good cheer, because we will further the process in 2012.

      • Angel Wannabe

        Wu Ming Ren, No ones giving up!__The point is people have to see whats happened and be realistic about it.

        _First of all, we have to get 2012 “without” the elections being canceled, b/c if they are, no ones going to vote ANYONE IN OR OUT!
        BAM BAM Legislates, more and more by executive order, by passing the Congress and no one can stop him!

      • DaveH

        Unfortunately, half of the Tea Party candidates just sold out when they had a chance to actually do something (stop the debt-ceiling hike). It’s going to take more than just having them state that they are Tea Party candidates. We need to scrutinize their voting records and/or “issues” statements carefully to determine if they really are Small Government advocates or just giving it Lip Service.
        For a list of those who sold out to the Debt Ceiling Increase:
        http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2011/roll690.xml

        Don’t let the Bill title “To make a technical amendment to the Education Sciences Reform Act of 2002″ throw you. This is the bill that contained the Debt Ceiling Increase.

      • http://donthaveone Beberoni

        The shame is, the Republicans lost their best candidate for President when Mitch Daniels decided not to run, because he said he didnt want to leave Indiana. And I also think, being a family oriented man, he didnt care to have the left wing liberals constantly attack him and his family as we all witnessed the all out assault on Sarah Palin. It is a shame our politics in this country has reduced itself to that. Shame on all you lawyer politicians whose main recourse to get yourself elected, is to make the other guy look bad. What the hell ever happened to being able to show what you can do, instead of attacking the other person to make one seek you out. What a dirty lousy shame. Lawyers. You cant kill em, and you cant eat em.

      • Angel Wannabe

        DaveH, Frankly I think we are past the point of voting said nominees in or out Dave. Look_I sure as h*ll don’t wanna see a major collapse in the likes of 29, but lets face facts here 400,000 new unemployment claims week after week after week is NOT good news. I’m beginning to think its the only way to wipe the slate clean and start over.__Everyone keeps relying on VOTEM OUT IN 2012, My biggest concern right now is the 2012 elections and the facts that Obama is legislating through excutive order_ I also think the alleged Iran terrorist attempt was a False Flag, I don’t think its beyond this administration to keep doing this, until we crack. We are on a one hell of a mudslide!

  • Thomas B

    Once we get obamma out of there we bring back the nazi and commie witch hunts and re-institute the old fashioned firing squad.

    • Jibbs

      Why not an old fashioned neck stretching party? Bullets cost money and the dispencers must be cleaned, while hemp rope is very strong and re-useable many times over.

      • Al Sieber

        Yes I agree, it’s time to shoot these dogs for peeing on the tree of liberty.

    • eddie47d

      I’m never amazed anymore how some of you like to drag Obama into an issue and claim superiority. I know that Thomas didn’t see Bob L’s reply above about nazi’s but apparently he didn’t read the main article either.

      • F86

        Bob L. thinks that commies AND facists are liberal. What a naive individual. Eye of the needle Bob, can you make it through?

      • http://donthaveone Beberoni

        I think eddie, its because we are talking failure here, with the failure to have the right thing done, which is to leave these kids alone. And when most anyone these days thinks of failure, those of us who see reality in a clear picture, we hear failure, and we see Obama and the democrats light up right in front of us. Failure and Obama are synonimous of each other.

  • Angel Wannabe

    Well Said Chip!__Well H*ll yes the dictators in Washington and the do-gooder suck ups, in our Local Communities are going to stop capitalism at its earliest form! Kids Selling Lemonade, at a homemade stand is “The Earliest Capitalism” there is, and about American as Apple Pie!

    SARCASISM ALERT!__The bureaucrats have to save us from ourselves and stop us from indoctrinating “OUR KIDS” into the greedy world of working for a living, buying a car, then a home, and in general being responsible for ourselves. The New Leadership is “MO BETTER”, as The schools teach revised history, lies, conformity, mediocrity and that Government knows what’s better for you, than you do!
    This is bureaucracy gone wild. Most of local communities are not as bad yet, unless you get a Local politician working his way up the ladder and wanting to make a name for themselves and it trickles down to the police dept from there (We had one but he’s gone, thankfully). In which case the name would be spelled “A-Z-Z”!

    • Jeryl

      Well said to you, too, Angel.

    • JeffH

      :) Hear Hear!

    • http://donthaveone Beberoni

      Pretty soon they will just send a government van out, with a money printing press in it, see these kids selling lemonade, take their lemonade stand away, and give them a bunch of money, and tell them they dont need to sell an honest cup of lemonade for an honest price, the government will take care of you. Here, take this money, then drive away. That seems to be the lesson they have taught many a person in todays society, that they dont need to work or be responsible or take care of themselves, that the government will do it for you. And people accept that. How far we have sank.

  • Jon

    Ron is the typical liberal know nothing, these liberals are the true Nazis, just look at the mess the UK is in since the liberal Labour party took over. Parents no longer have the right to decide what is best for their children in the UK, a building was burning down, police just stood by and watched because rules for them did not allow them to rescue the people. The police would not let neighbors get a ladder so the people could try and escape the fire, what happened, people died in a fire without any rescue attempt being made. Somebody breaks into your home, you chase them out with a golf club, guess who gets arrested, the home owner protecting their property. Go on vacation, return and find somebody has moved into your home and changed the locks. Police can do nothing, they say it is against the law to kick out a refugee on the street, yet it is OK to kick out a native English person out of their home and out on the street.

    And America is getting just as bad because of liberal know nothing hypocrites like Ron who are too lazy to find out just what the facts are. Just like children, all they know how to do is call people names. Just look at those brainwashed clowns occupying Wall Street. They have no pride in themselves, if they did they would put their trash in trash cans instead of leaving it on the streets. This is because we now have all these dope using hippies from the 60′s as professors in US collages now. Instead of teaching students how to make a honest living and giving them skills, you just get their brainwashing. Those Wall Street occupiers want to get violent, I say Bring It, because you and those like you will always the the minority.

    • F86

      Who you nazi, you stinkin’ nazi.

      • Jibbs

        You sure like name calling. Why don’t you go play in traffic.

      • Lewis Munn

        Or go down to the local police station and call all the cops that!

      • F86

        The namecalling was in the post above mine. But I’m big enough to back up what I say, cops or anyone if their acting that way. Most certainly I can stand up to pipsqueaks like you.

      • JeffH

        :( Dementia?

    • http://donthaveone Beberoni

      Dont blame it on dope smoking. That isnt what did it to them. It is their left wing liberal “everything is ok as long as you dont hurt anyone” mentality that as led them askew. They dont stand for anything, so they just go which ever way the wind blows, at the moment. They are only for something, if it seems popular right now. But if its not popular in twenty minutes from now, then they were never for it. Its kind of like that.

  • http://mmfbsa@centurylink.net twix

    I am appalled at all the things we can’t do now. The whole
    basis of our country is to be incentive wether it is a child
    selling lemonade, cookies or whatever. If those fun things
    are gone, what a lousy childhood we are giving to our kids.
    This gone today, what will be gone tomorrow and the next day.
    This is way off limits. More control, less America and what she
    stands for.

    • http://donthaveone Beberoni

      Whats next? Are they going to now go back in time, and tell me I owe a bunch of tax dollars for all the money I made as a kid shoveling snow, raking leaves and mowing lawns? Its ridiculous. I thought it was nuts when they started making babysitters pay taxes, and 15 percent social security. They are so desperate for these tax dollars it seems, yet they will let doctors go out for a business lunch, drink two 800.00 dollars a bottle wine, along with a 200.00 dinner, then they let them write it off on their taxes!!!! What the heck are they thinking? Its stinking nuts. Ive personally seen these bills before, and its astounding. Its highway robbery is what it is.

  • “JAVOPE”

    When I was young I grew up in Utah. My younger brother and I use to catch night crawler worms at night and sell them to the truckers who would be going through to Yellow Stone Park area. We would sell 100 dozen worms for 10 cents a dozen. The truckers would take them to the park area and sell them for 1 dollar a dozen. We had no Idea in 1958 that such money could be made. We thought 10 dollars for a nights work was a big deal. For a city to hold such petty laws in force for young kids is really showing what kind of petty people are occupying the lazy mans position in government.

    • Lewis Munn

      Somebody elected them.

  • Karolyn

    When these things occur, do the citizens go to their town council or county council meetings to protest? It is up to the citizens to change ridiculous overbearing laws and ordinances. If I heard of anything like this happening where I live (which would probably never happen because I live in rural SC), I would be at the county or town council meeting. A principal of a local middle school was under fire for having a Christian music group come to his school; and the crowd that showed up at the Board of Education meeting to support him was huge.

    • Jon

      I agree 100%, as long as we sit on out tails and say nothing, it will only get worse. Not only should we attend council meetings, but email our representatives and senators at all levels, it only takes a couple of minutes. Like I read a couple of days ago about olive Garden restaurant not allowing an 80 year old woman at a meeting show an American flag at the meeting. I email Olive Garden restaurants and told them I will not set foot into another Olive Garden or Pizza hut restaurant again. If they want to play the political correct game, fine, but they will do it without my money. We have to speak out, if we do not, it will only get worse.

      • http://donthaveone Beberoni

        I agree, we need to stand on priciples and put our money where are mouths are. When all these actors in left wing hollywood came out with their attacks, I simply put my money where my mouth is. I would watch their movies because they were actors, not politicians. Once they decided that since they were famous, that I should have to listen to their political rants, I made the decision that I would no longer spend a dime going to the theatre to watch their movies, or to rent any DVD’s of their movies. And I dont, whether it was supposed to be a good movie or not.

    • TML

      I agree with Karolyn completely… very reasonable response to the problem on the local level.

    • DaveH

      Yes, we should be politically active, but it goes far beyond that. The mindset is becoming more and more prevalent that busybodies should be allowed to micromanage the lives of who they deem to be “ignorant people who can’t take care of themselves”. All the townhall meetings in the world aren’t going to result in more Freedom until most of us come to the correct conclusion that other peoples’ choices for their own bodies and property are None of Our Business!
      It doesn’t matter to me if One or a Hundred people think they know which personal choices I should make — IT’S NONE OF THEIR BUSINESS.

      • Karolyn

        I do agree, Dave.

  • Dagger

    Chip, the state already has a war against kids (and parents) in the form of vaccinations using vaccines that are nothing more than poisons. What we are seeing now are kids with all kinds of deformaties and developmetal disabilities. Parents either allow their babies to be vaccinated or the will end up in jail and their kids will be put in foster homes. A child’s immune system does not fully develop until around age two, however, the all knowing, all powerful Gestapo government requires vaccination right after birth. Our government is resembling more and more the German Gestapo government prior to and during World War II. No one in America has any rights left. The state rules supreme.

    • Lewis Munn

      I agree. Also in the government handling of finances, printing money with no backup.

      Unfortunately, our citizens are no longer educated in what happened to Germany from doing this!

      IF they are going to keep on, I hope they get real soon to where my SS check converts to enough bales of paper money to burn in my stove and keep warm!!

  • Howard

    The reason that Barney Fife was so funny in the “Andy Griffith” episodes was that everyone who saw the show could relate to someone they knew. I believe that there is a Barney Fife in every community. Some people just enjoy lording it over others and will build quite a fiefdom in their local government to support their joy of enforcing the rules. Remember the kid in class who was always happiest to tell the teacher of anyone who misbehaved?
    They grow up and love badges, titles and the power to make your life miserable over the smallest details. Each new law passed just gives them more to puff up their chest about. What we are losing in this country is the corresponding Andy Griffith that brings our Barney back to reality and common sense.
    My grandfather used to tell me that common sense was the least common of all the senses. I think he was right!
    It is a problem, but I agree that as long as you can keep it at the local level the damage can usually be contained. But this new plethora of laws, rules and regulations at the Federal level is truly frightening. We are allowing our new Barney Fifes to rule over millions at a time! Nothing good can come of this.

    • Jeryl

      Sadly, some local Hitler’s are being emboldened by the ridiculous action of the Fed and are trying to assert their own brand of rule. I honestly believe that Congress and the President feel it’s their God-given mission to make the most ridicuous rules possible. In truth, however, when the character of a people becomes as poor as ours has become as a nation over the past several decades, government steps in to “protect us from ourselves.” I’m 67 years old and I do not recognize my nation anymore.

      • Lewis Munn

        What do we call it when we build superhighways with public tax dollars, and then the government sells them to foreign countries to run and make money off of! And keeps our tax money! I call it theft!

        Around Chicago, most of the tollway signs are now in German!

      • Jibbs

        BTW, what did King Richard do with the money when he sold the Skyway several years ago?

      • http://donthaveone Beberoni

        Paid off the mobs and the unions to keep voting for them.

      • OB1

        In Texas, they were built by a company from SPAIN! Thanks Rick Perry!

      • DaveH

        I’m a little more cynical than you, Jeryl. I believe that most politicians know damn well that they can’t protect us, and offer such only as a way to buy votes from ignorant people. In other words, they are in it for themselves, and could care less about the average citizen. If they did care, they would know that Big Governments lead to Weak Economies, as that experience has been proved over and over again:
        http://www.freetheworld.com/2011/reports/world/EFW2011_complete.pdf

    • http://NHcleanEnergy.net william fortune

      Howard, I like your comment; well said. When combined with the Feminist movement that replaced the father with the government, and the gov. abbility to print money, we are not going to turn this around easily.
      It seem to me that the only way the “Rons” of the world will learn and change is thourgh experience with reality. They may protest, but when the money is not free they will soon get a taste of reality or cease to exist.
      Bill Fortune, NH founder of Fathers United for Equal Justice.

      • Lewis Munn

        It would be nice if all public employees were required to daily face the flag and repeat the pledge of allegiance, as written, and were held accountable to that pledge! And were were required to follow it or be relieved of their positions!

        Including high government officials also!

      • DaveH

        Our country was founded on Individual Freedom.
        The Pledge of Allegiance was written by a Socialist. That should tell you something.

      • DaveH

        All people (male or female) should have the same rights. However, I believe the feminist movement was primarily a Liberal ruse to convince women that they were down-trodden if they stayed at home, so the Big Government types could get more workers to pillage. I read an article somewhere which developed that concept very well. I will try to find it.

      • DaveH

        Here is one that deals somewhat with the subject:
        http://mises.org/freemarket_detail.aspx?control=9

      • libertytrain

        I agree with the theory and have often wondered about that myself.

      • Song

        the feminist movement was d**n failure and an embarrassment in my opinion, and has led to far more problems then they ever hoped to address.

    • JeffH

      Barney Fife, what a clutz…reminds me of one particular regular here at PLD… :)

      • http://donthaveone Beberoni

        But everyone knows Otis was the smartest guy in town. He never worried about anything, and didnt need anyone to take care of him. Just leave the cell door open, and he would let himself in.

      • JeffH

        Too bad Andy turned out to be a liberal…I was really dissappointed.

  • Brian

    Wow, Chip! Reading your early business efforts sounded just like mine! Lemonade stand (apples too!), collecting glass bottles, and finally a real job delivering newspapers!

    You just don’t see that anymore. Our newspaper is delivered by an adult driving a car, and I have only seen one lemonade stand in our neighborhood in the last 10 years, and that for charity! No wonder our kids expect everything handed to them, cuz that is what we have been doing!

    • Bill

      yes,
      Parents today of our generation who grew up in the 50′s and 60′s think they should give ervything to their children that they didn’t have. Now look at what we have; a generation of whining entitlement hippies who think they should occupy wall street and claim they be given what others have worked hard for.

      We blame the lefties, but we are really the ones at fault, because we bought into the Marxist lie that our children should be ‘given’ everything.
      Don’t know if we can turn it around. I am blessed because I have 3 children who grew up believing that they get what they ‘earn’, not what they are ‘entitled’ to. This isn’t because I am such a virtuous parent, but because we didn’t have the money to ‘give’ them everything they ‘wanted’. We did restrict what they even ‘earned’, believing that they were better off w/out all the electronic mind numbing games and TV shows that were available.

  • the survivor

    the government declared war on drugs back in the 70s, we all know how that worked out, now there’s a war being fought on the southern border because drugs got out of hand.

    • chipshot

      The battle on the southern border goes far deeper than the “war” on drugs. The “war” on drugs is just another example of the incompetence in the district of corruption. But the open border policy supported by both dems and repubs has to do mostly with low labor cost, special interest groups, globalist progressive politics, and the plan to destroy the US.

    • James

      Back in the 50s, they declared war on vitamins and natural food supplements.

      • Wu Ming Ren

        You are aware, are you not, that the war against vitamins and natural food supplements has been reignited?

      • James

        Yes, I’m aware of that, the medical profession can’t stand the competition.

    • http://donthaveone Beberoni

      And what have to to show for this war on drugs? They cost more and the dealers make more money. Thats about it. They are still everywhere, even more so, and still, our wonderful government spends billions fighting it. Question is, who pockets is all those billions going in?

  • DaveH

    $100 sneakers? The only people I know who can afford to spend that much on sneakers are the Government employees.

    • DaveH

      Speaking of money matters, this is a plainly written explanation of Government and Money that everybody should read:
      http://mises.org/daily/5749/Why-the-State-Demands-Control-of-Money

    • http://donthaveone Beberoni

      I move north to another county 3 years ago, and Im glad I did. You see, exactly what you just mentioned, keeps happening there. The mayor, despite the county I used to live in having one of the highest tax rates in the state, and deep in debt I might add, just decided to give all the state workers a 4% raise. Isnt that just sweet. People are moving out of that county at a record rate, and they keep annexing out lying areas to garner in more tax money. Problem is, then they have to hook up sewer lines and run water lines and everything to these areas, and its a loosing proposition. The wonder of the government reaching for more tax dollars.

      • Old Henry

        And the dumb asses keep electing them? Sounds like America and Congress.

      • Jibbs

        Sounds like you went to Lake or McHenry county.

      • wrsrvn67

        LOL Right you are Jibbs. I grew up in Fox Lake and I know what you are talking about!!!

    • Old Henry

      Holy Cow DaveH! 4:17 AM?! I think my sleeping pill was finally kicking in abut then…

      • DaveH

        Lol. I awakened stewing about an inheritance situation where my very dishonest brother (executor) is trying every which way to screw me. Being an honest person, it takes every ounce of my brainpower to thwart everything that the liar tries.
        So I figured I might as well get on Personal Liberty for a while and count Liberals.

      • Old Henry

        Sounds messy Dave. My sisters and I went thru something similar with our dad’s widow years ago when our dad passed away. Ultimately it came real close to loosing the family farms.

        Well, as Adam Clayton Powell would say: Keep the baby Faith. (I know you’re old enough to remember that scandal)

      • http://donthaveone Beberoni

        There arent as many liberals in here to count, but if you count the stupid things they say, then you will have enough counting to do to get the job done.

  • John Myers

    Another great column Chip.

    You have an incredible talent for making things easy to understand and for highlighting what is wrong with goverment. After reading columns like this one I realize why I always go to your writings when they are first posted.

    Best,

    John Myers

  • s c

    Chip, this is TOO easy. R, I’ll say it for you. OBUMMER IS TO BLAME! Gee, I feel better. Now, to get to my main point.
    Yes, Chip, our slice of the world (America) is crazy. What R doesn’t get (space cadet progressives rarely ‘get it’) is the idea that whenever COMMON SENSE is violated, we are obligated morally to tell someone to #^&* off. Ergo, Washington, #^&* OFF!
    The cases mentioned above may be technically a matter of rights within various states, but the mentality comes from – you guessed it – those elected, anal retentives in Washington. So what’s your next question, R?

    • ron

      Yes SC and you are a Reich Wing Conservative who never gets it.

      • JeffH

        “Reich Wing”…you’re so clever! NOT!

      • Bill

        Ron,
        Why can you not havee an intelligent debate about these issues, instead of imflamatory rhetoric?
        The issue here is the nanny-statism that we are experiencing, and yes, like it or not, it is the result of liberal ‘meddling’ in everyone’s lives. conservatives support ‘live and let live’ policies, which the Founding Fathers promoted. read the constitution, the bill of Rights, and the declaration of Independence. for additional education read the federalist papers, and you will get an education of real ‘conservative’ convictions. Ironically, the Founding fathers were considered ‘liberals’ in their day.

      • dave

        Yes, our founding fathers were “true liberals” — live & let live.

      • Christine

        The liberal name has been corrupted as the progressive so love to do. Changing the meaning of words and makes it difficult to argue points because the words mean different things to different people.

        Today the founders would be considered Libertarians.

      • http://www.boblivingstonletter.com/ Bob Livingston

        Dear ron,

        I often see left-leaning or progressive commenters use the term “reich wing” as an otiose effort to demean or slur conservatives. I suppose it is an attempt to equate conservatives with the Third Reich of Adolf Hitler.

        The Third Reich was the Nazi state that rose up in 1920 and swept the Weimar Republic from power and suspended parliamentary democracy in 1933. Nazi stands for the National Socialist German Worker’s Party. The Nazi party suspended constitutional rights, tried to control the churches, was anti-capitalist, anti-big business, anti-Semitic , anti-democratic, anti-big union and anti-Marxist. Hitler, of course, was the party’s last leader.

        I realize that those, like you, who are handicapped by their government-sponsored indoctrination that is called education in today’s America have been propagandized to believe the Nazi party was a right wing party. However, aside from being anti-Marxist and anti-big union, there is nothing about the national socialist worker party that any conservative I’ve ever heard of would agree with.

        Using the term reich wing may come off as cute on some progressive site populated by mindless left-wing zombies. Here it comes off as juvenile and simply demonstrates a profound ignorance. Tactics like yours belong in the sandbox. I suggest you go back there and play for the rest of the day.

        Best wishes,
        Bob

      • ramjet2

        One thing to think about with this rediculous attack on the young enterpreneurs. Some of the city ordinances do have merit. The recent attack in California on residents for having Bible studies in their homes. Parking is always an issue and regular crowds on a residential street is irritating to the neighbors.
        This issue too has some protection qualities in that if the young person was selling hot dogs or egg salad no one would be upset that the local health department was monitoring. The issue to me is the state should use some COMMON SENSE. BACK OFF and let the parents monitor what the kids are doing. But then again, some parents don’t have the brains that God gave them.

      • DaveH

        Are you saying that the customers are too ignorant to assess the risks themselves, and then make their own choices?

      • Jibbs

        I’ve seen more cars at a family holiday gathering than a bible study. So are you telling us that we can’t have family gatherings due to all the cars parked in the street?
        I’m thankful that you don’t live near me.

      • Old Henry

        Yes DaveH, he is. He is yet another one who has falledn into the govt. must watch over us tar pit. And he does not even realize it.

      • Old Henry

        Jibbs, I’m sure that will soon be on the radar – especially if it’s Christmas.

        Remember, family values – baaaaad. Govt values – gooooood.

      • James

        I agree. Conservative, in America, refers to those who believe the federal government is limited to the powers enumerated in Article, Section 8 of the U.S. Constitution. Liberal, refers to those who think the Constitution should be more flexible to meet the needs of the moment. That is also, respectively, the basic definitions of the Republican and Democratic parties.
        But, kids selling lemonade without a license, off with their heads!

      • DaveH

        Sorry, James, I disagree that Republicans embody Conservatism. The Drugs Wars, for instance, are definitely not a Power enumerated in the Constitution. And there are many other examples of Government abuse of the Constitution such as the victimless crimes (vice crimes), that the establishment Republicans fully embrace.
        And I know, they “say” that such things are covered under the “welfare clause” or the Power to regulate Interstate Commerce, but I know (and probably you do too) that such excuses are invalid because there would be no restriction on Federal Power at all if such interpretations were valid.

      • Old Henry

        DaveH::

        “that such excuses are invalid because there would be no restriction on Federal Power at all if such interpretations were valid.”

        Dunno Dave. In the last few years I hve coume under the impression that the Fed Govt has no restraints – or so they percive.

      • http://charter howe

        There has to come a time when the public welfare is the over riding issue when creating a regulations within the realm of the CZARS in particular the EPA and Energy Czars. If there is over regulation or in the case of lemoneade type regulation its too expensive and too rediculous because the educated idiot CZARS do not employ common sense and balance that would be reasonable, balanced and financially sustainable and thats why we are in deep Kempshe. There have been almost 4000 new regulations entered into the federal register in the past year and thousands since Obama took office. It has reached the point where thousands of jobs have been lost and millions more can’t be created because business people will not risk their money to keep or create jobs. These CZARS are not accountable to Congress and they are a bunch of rank amatuers who are working for a POTUS that knows nothing about running a business. The ideology and the lack of business experience is killing private sector jobs and the free market system and the pathetic part is they ain’t got a clue. The POTUS and the Biden keep talking about jobs they created, but what they are talking about are govt jobs which all require more tax to pay for since govt jobs do not create wealth. Please vote Nov 2012.

      • James

        DaveH, It ‘was’ the definition of Republicans. I admit, many Republicans are liberals, but not to the extent of Democrats. I’ll be more specific in the future.

      • F86

        And yet the RIGHT wing continues to use “The Big Lie” to indoctrinate
        conservatives and try to belittle liberals. Actually though I find most conservatives to be more like Tories than Nazis. I have no doubt that they would have sided with George the third rather than George the Washington.

      • Jibbs

        How much doe’s barry pay you to come on here and whine?

      • Angel Wannabe

        Jibbs_ they’re apparently not paying him enough to live on, he’s still here!

      • JeffH

        F86, what have you ever said here that has had even the slightest bit of substance to it? answer: NOTHING!

        Back it up if you can, otherwise just continue on with your unsubstantiated drivel! Have you even finished high school yet?

      • Bob

        F86, like most liberals, you have it backwards. By definition, Conservative = LIMITED government. Therefore, the founding fathers were conservatives. Liberal means big government. The liberals would have been for King George.

        Among the liberal forces, we find: progressives, liberals, communists and fascists. Among the conservatives are: conservatives and libertarians.

        I am surprised at the hatred the liberals have for W. He was a big liberal, not a conservative. With the massive spending he enacted, he proved his liberal stance. He betrayed conservatives.

      • eddie47d

        F86 did open a can of worms Bob but that doesn’t mean you have to go off the cliff with him. Fascists belong in the Conservative category right along with Rino’s whether you want to claim rinos or not. No different than your claim that Liberals are communists which isn’t true but sounds so good from your perspective doesn’t it. Even the Moral Majority weren’t always moral so we can all play gotcha in labeling others.

      • http://donthaveone Beberoni

        The liberals belittle themselves with their anti-American, pro George Soros type of rhetoric. They dont need anyone to point the finger at them and make accusations at them, they promote their idiocrasy very well just by being who they are. They used to try to hide it, but Obama has brought it out into the open and exposed them for who they really are. That is exactly why over 60 of his henchman lost their jobs in 2010, and why a whole lot more are going to lose theirs in 2012. I guess we owe him a thank you in the long run, but weve still got a long run to get him out before he does much more damage.

      • F86

        You guys do more to back up what I say about you than I ever could. I just can’t think the way you do. I believe in America, and the Americans that reside here. To Lost in paradise: What do you think, I’m in my ninties. My Father flew F86s ( props before that). I was pararescue. I’m now retired, after 40 years in business. I know a lot about America because I lived it, not sat back and bitched about it. Now that I’m an old man, I’m more than happy to share what I’ve learned with you. The main thing you need to remember is that our greatest asset as a nation is our people, and that none should be left behind. Many people risked and lost their lives proving the value of that axiom, and I will not sit by and have you, any of you, step on that uniquely American quality.

      • JeffH

        F86, I think we all owe you an apology. It’s not nice to chastise someone like youself that suffers from accute dementia. I surely hope it wasn’t drug abuse that caused it.

      • http://charter howe

        A commie idiot or union thug always tips their hand by never being factual or specific, but they are always quick to denigrate or play smash and bash for a cause they can’t defend. Your comment identifies a party and as everyone knows each party has their share of losers thats why our country is in a mess, but the bigger problem is the devisive thugs like you that rather slander good people regardless of their political beliefs than to engage in what will move our country forward. I spent 29 years in the military and I hope you never worked for me or I would consider myself a failure for not helping you get your head screwed on straight if that was possible.

      • http://charter howe

        I am against people who poison the well by casting slander at other people without giving a single concrete fact. I spent 29 years in the military and I find it stunning that F86 does not support the U.S. Constitution and the laws of the land after swearing to uphold same as an active duty member. Being hypocritical is not uncommon for people in either party but my big rub is the 70 self avowed socialist democrats in the House of Representatives and that is a matter of record. There are also a bunch more in the Senate and the Potus and the administration in the Whitehouse are going down the same road with their policies. When you take over car companies and the healthcare system etc and govt rules over 60% of the American resources that is socialism and that my friend is a definite path to marxism. The free market failure should be your focus if you care about your country and get these commie fools to expose themselves.

      • F86

        In reply to Howe, I would not have worked for you unless you were shot down and in considerable distress, then they may have dropped me somewhere within a few miles of to go in and bring you alive. But you sound like some NCO lifer that shined a chair with his butt. I am however sure you never worked for me. I would have fired you for not pulling your head out of your butt.

      • F86

        And oh while we are talking about facts Howe where is your substantiation that congress has communists serving. My oath to the Constitution stands as rendered and if you were standing in front of me right now I would drive it down your throat so hard your first ancestor would feel it.

      • F86

        The “Big Lie” of Conservatives ( to name a few)
        Nixon – “I am not a crook”
        Reagan “They are freedom fighters”
        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c2O0qAtKrYk
        Bush “… mushroom cloud.”

        I backup everything I say. And I counterpunch insulting comments. Truth hurts don’t it.

      • JeffH

        F86 says “Howe where is your substantiation that congress has communists serving”

        In Washington D.C. there is powerful and popular lobby called the Congressional Progressive Caucus which, at one time, openly espoused the principles of socialism and publicly signed onto the agenda of the Democratic Socialists of America.

        Democratic Leadership:

        Nancy Pelosi
        Democratic Leader

        Steny Hoyer
        Office of the Democratic Whip

        John B. Larson
        Democratic Caucus Chair

        http://cpc.grijalva.house.gov/index.cfm?sectionid=71&sectiontree=2,71

        Senate Member

        Bernie Sanders

        House Members

        Karen Bass

        Xavier Becerra

        Earl Blumenauer

        Robert Brady

        Corrine Brown

        Michael Capuano

        Andre Carson

        Donna Christensen

        Yvette Clarke

        Emanuel Cleaver

        David Cicilline

        Steve Cohen

        John Conyers

        Elijah Cummings

        Danny Davis

        Peter DeFazio

        Rosa DeLauro

        Donna Edwards

        Sam Farr

        Chaka Fattah

        Bob Filner

        Barney Frank

        Marcia Fudge

        Luis Gutierrez

        Janice Hahn

        Maurice Hinchey

        Mazie Hirono

        Michael Honda

        Jesse Jackson, Jr.

        Eddie Bernice Johnson

        Marcy Kaptur

        Dennis Kucinich

        Barbara Lee

        John Lewis

        David Loebsack

        Ben Ray Lujan

        Carolyn Maloney

        Ed Markey

        Jim McDermott

        James McGovern

        George Miller

        Gwen Moore

        Jim Moran

        Jerrold Nadler

        Eleanor Holmes Norton

        John Olver

        Frank Pallone

        Ed Pastor

        Donald Payne

        Jared Polis

        Charles Rangel

        Laura Richardson

        Lucille Roybal-Allard

        Bobby Rush

        Linda Sanchez

        Jan Schakowsky

        Jose Serrano

        Louise Slaughter

        Pete Stark

        Bennie Thompson

        John Tierney

        Nydia Velazquez

        Maxine Waters

        Mel Watt

        Peter Welch

        Frederica Wilson

        Lynn Woolsey

      • Jibbs

        How Many Members Of The U.S. Congress
        Are Self-Declared Socialists?

        Updated for the 111th Congress

        The following FAQ will help clarify a few facts:

        Q: What is the Socialist International?

        A: It is the worldwide organization of socialist, social democratic and labor parties. It currently brings together 131 political parties and organizations from all continents. Its origins go back to the early international organizations of the labor movement of the last century.* It has existed in its present form since 1951, when it was re-established at the Frankfurt Congress. They are now headquartered in London, England.

        * In 1864, representatives of English and French industrial workers founded the International Workingmen’s Association in London. Karl Marx, who was living in London at the time, became the First International’s dominant figure. Marx’s doctrines were revived in the 20th century by Russian revolutionary Vladimir Ilich Lenin, who developed and applied them – and we all know that what was started as a labor movement ended up as the biggest totalitarian/communist state, i.e., the USSR.

        Q: What is the Democratic Socialists of America [DSA]?

        A: It is the largest socialist organization in the United States, and the principal U.S. affiliate of the Socialist International. Their website is http://www.dsausa.org/dsa.html

        Q: What are seven principles behind what the DSA’s calls it’s “Progressive Challenge?”

        Dignified Work
        Environmental Justice
        Economic Redistribution
        Democratic Participation
        Community Empowerment
        Global Non-Violence
        Social Justice.

        Never mind their soothing-sounding leftist doublespeak like ‘Environmental Justice’ (whatever that is supposed to mean) or the soft & fuzzy ‘Global Non-Violence’ (a euphemism for unilateral disarmament) — the DSA’s self-declared principle of ‘Economic Redistribution’ clearly shows where these folks are coming from and exactly where they plan to take America.

        Q: How many members of the U.S. Congress are also members of the DSA?

        A: Seventy!

        Q: How many of the DSA members sit on the Judiciary Committee?

        A: Eleven: John Conyers [Chairman of the Judiciary Committee], Tammy Baldwin, Jerrold Nadler, Luis Gutierrez, Melvin Watt, Maxine Waters, Hank Johnson, Steve Cohen, Barbara Lee, Robert Wexler, Linda Sanchez [there are 23 Democrats on the Judiciary Committee of which eleven, almost half, are now members of the DSA].

        Q: Who are these members of Congress?

        A: See the listing below

        Co-Chairs
        Hon. Raúl M. Grijalva (AZ-07)
        Hon. Lynn Woolsey (CA-06)

        Vice Chairs
        Hon. Diane Watson (CA-33)
        Hon. Sheila Jackson-Lee (TX-18)
        Hon. Mazie Hirono (HI-02)
        Hon. Dennis Kucinich (OH-10)

        Senate Members
        Hon. Bernie Sanders (VT)

        House Members
        Hon. Neil Abercrombie (HI-01)
        Hon. Tammy Baldwin (WI-02)
        Hon. Xavier Becerra (CA-31)
        Hon. Madeleine Bordallo (GU-AL)
        Hon. Robert Brady (PA-01)
        Hon. Corrine Brown (FL-03)
        Hon. Michael Capuano (MA-08)
        Hon. André Carson (IN-07)
        Hon. Donna Christensen (VI-AL)
        Hon. Yvette Clarke (NY-11)
        Hon. William “Lacy” Clay (MO-01)
        Hon. Emanuel Cleaver (MO-05)
        Hon. Steve Cohen (TN-09)
        Hon. John Conyers (MI-14)
        Hon. Elijah Cummings (MD-07)
        Hon. Danny Davis (IL-07)
        Hon. Peter DeFazio (OR-04)
        Hon. Rosa DeLauro (CT-03)
        Rep. Donna F. Edwards (MD-04)
        Hon. Keith Ellison (MN-05)
        Hon. Sam Farr (CA-17)
        Hon. Chaka Fattah (PA-02)
        Hon. Bob Filner (CA-51)
        Hon. Barney Frank (MA-04)
        Hon. Marcia L. Fudge (OH-11)
        Hon. Alan Grayson (FL-08)
        Hon. Luis Gutierrez (IL-04)
        Hon. John Hall (NY-19)
        Hon. Phil Hare (IL-17)
        Hon. Maurice Hinchey (NY-22)
        Hon. Michael Honda (CA-15)
        Hon. Jesse Jackson, Jr. (IL-02)
        Hon. Eddie Bernice Johnson (TX-30)
        Hon. Hank Johnson (GA-04)
        Hon. Marcy Kaptur (OH-09)
        Hon. Carolyn Kilpatrick (MI-13)
        Hon. Barbara Lee (CA-09)
        Hon. John Lewis (GA-05)
        Hon. David Loebsack (IA-02)
        Hon. Ben R. Lujan (NM-3)
        Hon. Carolyn Maloney (NY-14)
        Hon. Ed Markey (MA-07)
        Hon. Jim McDermott (WA-07)
        Hon. James McGovern (MA-03)
        Hon. George Miller (CA-07)
        Hon. Gwen Moore (WI-04)
        Hon. Jerrold Nadler (NY-08)
        Hon. Eleanor Holmes-Norton (DC-AL)
        Hon. John Olver (MA-01)
        Hon. Ed Pastor (AZ-04)
        Hon. Donald Payne (NJ-10)
        Hon. Chellie Pingree (ME-01)
        Hon. Charles Rangel (NY-15)
        Hon. Laura Richardson (CA-37)
        Hon. Lucille Roybal-Allard (CA-34)
        Hon. Bobby Rush (IL-01)
        Hon. Linda Sánchez (CA-47)
        Hon. Jan Schakowsky (IL-09)
        Hon. José Serrano (NY-16)
        Hon. Louise Slaughter (NY-28)
        Hon. Pete Stark (CA-13)
        Hon. Bennie Thompson (MS-02)
        Hon. John Tierney (MA-06)
        Hon. Nydia Velazquez (NY-12)
        Hon. Maxine Waters (CA-35)
        Hon. Mel Watt (NC-12)
        Hon. Henry Waxman (CA-30)
        Hon. Peter Welch (VT-AL)
        Hon. Robert Wexler (FL-19)

      • eddie47d

        So what Jibbs. Every single nation has some form of socialism in it including the USA. Wasn’t it yesterday that you said there were 70 communists in Congress. Which isn’t true so stop selling your sour lemonade.

      • OB1

        Old Henry, you are a gift to humanity. Enough said.

      • Angel Wannabe

        Way to go Bob Livingston!!! :)

      • F86

        The only limitations on conservative government is their understanding of the U.S.Constitution. You can twist it any way you like when you think it only protects you, but the fact is it protects us all, if we all stand up for it. I have long ago fullfilled my duty to my country, but the oath I took has no time limit at all.

      • F86

        Bush is a conservative. And he wasn’t alone. The money he and his rubber stamp congress burned through put this nation in the tank. Conservatives. Want their cake after they eat yours.

      • JeffH

        Bush is a conservative? Right, and Obama is a moderate Democrat by that line of thought. Dementia?

      • Jadaxx

        Hi Bob,
        You stated in Bob Livingston says:
        October 14, 2011 at 7:48 am

        “… as an otiose effort to demean or slur conservatives.”

        Then in the same reply you stated:

        “…some progressive site populated by mindless left-wing zombies.”

        I thought you would be above the name-calling, apparently, I was wrong.

        In your Comment Policy it is stated: “Make your case passionately, but civilly. Please don’t stoop to name calling.”

        Now I see why this forum full of uncivil comments by both liberals and conservatives. The example starts at the top. I am truly disappointed.

      • Dntmkmecmoverther

        Now you’re just being stupid…you must be from the leftist, statists who want to control every friggin movement…including bowel.

      • F86

        I’ll never understand how people equate a love of liberty, liberal, with conservatism, which shows up as being against the freedoms our Constitution spells out at every turn.

      • Lost in Paradise

        You must have pulled too many G’s in your F-86,with a failed G suit, and when the blood rushed from your brain it caused permanent and serious damage. LMAO Tell me about all the liberties we are and will give up do to the liberal mess in this country? Tell me that re-distributing wealth is not communist BS.Tell me that spending money like its going out of style, is not insane, and by the constitution.

      • DaveH

        Are you referring to Classical Liberals, F86? Because the group commonly referred to these days as Liberals are anything BUT Freedom Lovers. The Conservative label has also been co-opted, by Big Government Loving Control Freaks.
        When I refer to Liberal, I’m talking about those who believe Big Government is the Solution. And when I refer to Conservatives, I’m talking about those who believe Big Government is the Problem.

      • JeffH

        DaveH, don’t confuse the poor child any more than he/she already is.

      • http://donthaveone Beberoni

        You couldnt be more wrong. As a conservative, I love and embrace life, God, family and country. Those things are far from the liberal think tank. Far from them.

      • Old Henry

        While munching on a roast BEEF sandwich and mulling over these runty liberals a Brad Paisly song came to mind. In it he sings about a runty kid and his alter ego on “My Space”.

        It starts out with “I work down at the Pizza Pit, I drive an old Hyundai. I still live with my mom and dad, I’m five foot three and over weight. It then goes on about getting home and mom fixes him a snack. He then goes down to his basement bedroom and fires up his MAC. The kid then unleashes his alter ego to females on the site. All make believe. Much like liberals.

      • JeffH

        Old Henry, did anyone ever tell you that you got a great sense of humor? If not…you do!

      • Old Henry

        Thanks Jeff. I guess I hve my moments. My kids used to just roll their eyes and shake their heads. My daughter used to ask me to please not embarass her when her date showed up. HA!

      • Jibbs

        Old Henry,
        you can come over anytime and drink beer and listen to country music!

      • JeffH

        Jibbs, I’ll bring some MGD if we can listen to some Bob Wills, Hank Snow or Williams, Willie, maybe Hank Sr. or Merle and even my favorite Buck Owens…anything pre-80 works for me but I really like the old stuff.

      • DaveH

        I was just listening to a Roy Orbison song yesterday. He’s one of my favorites.

      • independant thinker

        I listen tpo traditional Bluegrass almost exclusively these days.

      • http://www.frank1737@msn.com frank1737

        Hey Psycho Ron,
        You are a worless Liberal and why don’t you post your full name, address, and phone number so I or others can give you an attitude adjustment!!!

      • eddie47d

        I can’t keep up with all the psychos calling psychos …psychos. LOL

      • http://donthaveone Beberoni

        There is one hiding in your bathroom right now eddie. Go on, go in there and look. Garner yourself a peek, right above your sink in the bathroom, and you will see one of them.

      • Old Henry

        Beberoni!

        That’s great! I damned near had coffee comin outta my nose! Thank you for helping to ease my very grouchy mood!

      • eddie47d

        You forgot to clean off that bugger that flew out.

      • http://donthaveone Beberoni

        Nope, he saw the bugger that shot out. Named him eddie.

    • F86

      If you look at the states involved it is of course predominately states with conservative leadership as usual. In an effort to control this nation the right wing would have gestopo goons rounding up “undesireables” 24/7 if they could. For you guys the U.S. Constitution is something you use when you run out of Charmin, unless you try to justify some of your illegal actions by quoting a provision from that document that rarely applies.

    • eddie47d

      I knew SC would bring up Obama’s name. She always has and always will even when there is no involvement from him. If SC’s hairstylist doesn’t do a good job she will always have Obama to blame like everything else.

    • Old Henry

      s c:

      LOL! You’re onna role today! I think you have a couple of tee shirts int there.

  • ron

    I thought you guys were for state rights. Or are we attempting in some way to blame Obama once again.

    • JeffH

      ron, did you even bother to read the whole article? Obviously not or you have a terrible comprehension problem.

      This is the part you seemed to miss:
      “I wish I could tell you that the evil triumvirate of Nancy Pelosi, Harry Reid and Barack Obama were responsible for this nuttiness. But they aren’t. In virtually every case, the culprits were local officials obeying local ordinances. So much for my long-held conviction that the closer you can bring government to the citizenry, the more fair and efficient it will be. Clearly, in the communities described above, some petty bureaucrats have an awful lot of time on their hands.”

      • Thor

        Good point, JeffH; and these are of course some excellent examples of what is becoming a growing “Nanny State” or “Nanny (totalitarian) System.” But, once again, the mechanism that is causing it is brushed over, almost ignored. For this to happen there has to be a law on the books at some level of government–local and state governments here–that lends itself to abuse. That means some legislative body put it there. Once there, the law is in the purview of law enforcement. Law enforcement, however, is a totally reactive body which would never go after law-breakers of this ilk without a complaint. They don’t simply drive through the community looking for cookie sales and lemonade stands. They respond to citizen complaints. That can only mean that citizens, like many of those posting here, are ‘turning the kids into the cops.’ Once that happens, officers have no choice but to respond because once they are notified a host of liabilities arise in the most litigious society that has ever lived. That means that complainers expect the law to act; if it doesn’t then the local sheriff’s office or police department minions find themselves in civil court. And you guys know as well as I do what happens when liberal judges, lawyers and entitlement juries (the ones that always seem to make it through voir dire) do to entities with the money like the sheriff’s office and the local P.D. That brings us back to the law itself, to elected officials (mostly attorneys) who pass the laws and to the way laws are interpreted–and most especially to those laws that should exist and don’t–like tort reform laws that would limit both the kinds of civil suits brought and their nature, along with the amount of prize money at the end. This is of course a war against capitalism, a free market economy and entrepreneurship. But I don’t think we get anywhere by shooting at the communist socialist flag. You have to go after the minions who raised it up the flag pole and address the causes and deprive them of the instruments they use. You wanna solve this problem? You have to take back our universities and change peoples’ perspective on what the law–and everyone concerned with it–is supposed to do.

      • Bob McCormick

        I agree with most of what you say, there are an abundance of complainers and litigious whiners in our society. Can you imagine a food vendor complaining about competition from a kid’s lemonade stand and the police, idiots that they are, justifying their actions by saying they had a complaint. Your contention that the police are powerless to use discretion is totally inaccurate however. Even here in a commie state like Massachusetts, the cops often pick and choose which laws the wish to enforce. In the case of the lemonade stand they can easily use one of their favorite tactics, wait until evening when the kids are sure to be gone before investigating, they use this tactic all the time.
        Even in more serious situations the cops exercise selective enforcement. As an example, several years ago residents of a street in the town where I lived found it necessary to take their complaints of excessive speed to the selectmen. In open meeting the Chief cited the presence of the State Police training facility on that road as the reason he could not enforce the speed limit, the selectmen concurred. So when the cops use their standard “I’m just doing my job” excuse it’s bs, remember the other Nazis, the ones from Germany, they used the “I was just following orders” excuse, it didn’t fly then either.

      • Old Henry

        Bob:

        Just a thought, but I wonder what the Chief and Selectmen would have done if the residents had secured a 16″ 2×4 across the street as a “speed bump”?

      • http://moses.vemma.com Dragon

        I recall operating a Lemonade stand at a local roadside rest area on US 183, back when I was a kid. Among my many customers, I had Highway Patrol officers, and county deputies, and some of those deputies weren’t even from my county. I also had truckers driving cross country, numerous families traveling hither and you, and all the local people around where I lived. A neighbor, a girl I knew who was in the Girl Scouts; came over when the Girl Scouts were having their cookie sales, and set up shop within my stand. We both made lots of money, and the Girl Scouts even went as far as to ship her more cookies to sell.
        That roadside rest area is now fenced off from the highway, with a small turn off into it at each end. Truckers and travelers fly by and hardly notice the park, as most are too busy trying to get where they want to go to pay attention. On a visit, this past summer, I set up a drink stand in the rest area, and placed a sign to attract customers. My first customer was a state trooper who told me I couldn’t sell refreshment at the rest area without a permit. That was according to State law, but was only legal on State owned property. That rest area is private property. And I own it, as it is on my farm land, and has been in my family for over 80 years. County ordinance allows me to set up stands for any purpose I wish, but the State demands I get a license.
        I split the difference, and opened a drive onto my home site, offering food and drinks; picnic style. The State never said a word, although their officers like to come by, when I am open, and have a meal; (LEA pays half price for a meal).

      • John in CA

        Both you and Thor are correct, however you both missed a couple of things. Officers do have discretion, but local bureaucrats are not much different from the crooks in Washington, in that they are always looking to achieve “revenue enhancement.” Peace officers are often under pressure from higher up regarding how they prioritise their enforcement efforts. Also, these officers are now mostly graduates of the very same schools turned indoctrination centers that produced the complainers and whiners.

        My town is a fine example of this. When I was a child, my mother and I would make extra cash every couple of weeks by having a yard sale. We made a little money, got rid of stuff we didn’t want (frequently it was stuff that other people hadn’t wanted, as we would sometimes visit and buy out yard sales at the end of the day), and kept said stuff out of a land fill. We did this for a couple of decades. That is, until towns and cities around here started enacting yard sale bans, and requiring permits, which are usually limited to one per year or every few months in some cases. Most municipalities even have people on the payroll who’s job it is to drive around, looking for violations of various ordinances, so it isn’t always some busy body calling them.

        Whenever I want fresh loads in the 1860 Army I keep at bedside (so I’m eccentric, the weapon suits me), I can just go out to the garage and “unload” it into a bucket of dirt. I can do this because, supposedly due to budget cuts, local law enforcement policy is not to respond to calls of shots fired unless someone has actually been shot (and there are stiff fines for false reports, so it is not wise to embellish to get them to show up). However, try having a yard or garage sale, and you are likely to receive a visit from a code enforcement officer, usually escorted by at least two officers.

        There is a very fine line between bribery and a legal permitting system. That line is really nothing more than the difference between bribery and extortion.

      • Old Henry

        Dragon:

        That’s a great story! Thank you for sharing it. Just goes to show there is always more than one way to skin a cat.

      • LexRex

        AVCurmudgeon said it best: “’that government governs best that governs least.”’ In some ways the temptation for government overreach can become greater the smaller [more local] the level.” Indeed some of the worst tyrants are pettifogging local bureaucrats.

        The rub comes from the army of snitches and gossips who “anonymously complain” about violations and sic the legal thugs on their neighbors; they are reinforced by battalions of city or county employees (like trash collectors, or utility workers) who collect bounties or “incentives” for reporting any “code violations” they observe.

        In our city there is whole “Department of Code Enforcement” that prowl the city looking for such civil violations as “yard sale signs, or Little League posters” or small businesses that put balloons on their doors to promote a sale or event, or worst of all having a bible study group in your home without a government permit (so much for the First Amendment).

        Shades of Stalinism; it’s enough to make you wonder who really won the Cold War. Khrushchev boasted that Communism would bury us, and it’s beginning to look like he was right, they just changed the label.

        No wonder America now ranks so low on the freedom scale in civilized society. Are we really Americans or genetically modified mutations spawned by the decadent 60′s Age of Aquarius flower power pot smokers crossbred with illegal aliens palmed off as Americans?

      • http://againstdisconnction.blogspot.com Patricia Krenik

        You most excellently make your point. Freedoms we took for granted as a child are simply gone. A stifling government.

      • Old Henry

        Damn Thor! I was not aware we had lawyers cruising our hallways..

      • Thor

        Learn something every day, eh O.H.? Since teleportation has not been perfected yet, lawyers have to drive just like everyone else. Stopped one myself one time for a traffic infraction. When I walked up to the window he handed me his cell phone. My supervisor was on the phone. What the lawyer heard went like this: “Yessir, my dash-cam was on and the video and sound are working just fine.” “Yessir, I got the traffic infraction on tape.” It was one occasion on which things developed in my favor because I was violating this lawyer’s rights by taping him breaking the law. Of course, it would have never happened if some well-meaning cad had called in to tell me where little Johnny had set up his lemonade stand…so, I could have harassed him instead.

      • Thor

        …oh, and if by ‘hallways’ you mean those of our colleges and universities–where to you think old lawyers go before they die? Back to the dark, cobweb infested halls of lyceum to regurgitate and recycle the antiquated legal theories of old, of course. Those who can no longer do, teach. And what do they teach? Not what is new and practical but what they were taught. As Hawthorne put it, we are dying of dead mens’ diseases and suffering from dead judges’ legal precedents.

      • Old Henry

        Thor:

        That’s great!

      • Old Henry

        Great call JeffH. (Smiley face) LOL!

    • DaveH

      States Rights should be a given, since that is the main law of the land. The operative phrase here being “should be”.
      No, Ron, being for State Sovereignty does not mean that we’re okay with local Government micromanaging our lives.
      Reich Wing? Funny Ron, because it is Liberals who want to impose their lifestyle choices of everybody else. It is Liberals who emulate the controlling actions of the Nazis. It’s odd that the Liberals on this board attempt so often to project their own inclinations on the rest of us.
      You must have mistaken this for a Liberal site, Ron, where you can pass your inane comments with little fear of intelligent rebuttal.

      • DanB

        I think this is a sign that progressivism has sunk into many levels of our society, that many of us have bought into the philosophy that is the responsibility of government to do all these things. It used to be that our local governments could have part-time (volunteering their time) representation. Because we only believed they should do the very basics, and thus they only needed to spend time doing the very basics. Now we have them managing local ISPs (several communities here have gone in on an ISP venture that is losing money–like so many government projects do but the communities keep adding to it and others keep signing on–and this is in Utah!), mandating recycling–now we pay to recycle and even I remember when actually could get some nickels and dimes for recycling in the early eighties when I was a boy–and the list actually keeps going on. Providing water, sewer, police, and fire department are only a small portion of what they do now. They have job services. Paid libraries (instead of volunteer). Regulate everything from your coffee shop to computer repairs. I am trying to start my own computer business nights and weekends. I have to keep my “services” very limited if I want to avoid all the regulations and compliance even though most of my job can be done with only a screw driver, a known working computer, plus one or two data cables…. So it isn’t just little kids learning the first thing about running their own business they make difficult. Even adults trying to learn for the first time to be entrepreneurs are “enemies” to be shutdown.

      • DaveH

        And the historical experience shows that Bigger Governments lead to Smaller Economies. That shows me that they aren’t doing this for us, as they like to say, but rather for themselves and for their politically connected buddies.
        Vote Libertarian!
        For Individual Freedom, Personal Responsibility, Limited Government, Free Markets (where people can trade their products or services freely with others), and PEACE (with Big Government, one faction is always tormenting the rest):
        http://libertarianparty.org/issues

      • http://donthaveone Beberoni

        The business as usual with the 2 major parties now, is ticking me off and taking its toll on me Dave, and Im getting close to joining you. Real close.

      • DaveH

        Thanks, Beberoni.

      • Old Henry

        Early this year my wife read me an article in the paper about a nearby town that is considering taxing RAIN. They clained it has been done in several cities already. The sad part? To the best of my knowledge there has been NO outrage and a small number have expressed approval.

      • S.C. Murf

        Old Henry, here in Sioux City Ia. we have been taxed for rain water run off thru the sewage rates that we pay. It is determined by the size of your yard or business or parking lot. Just another way of collecting our money so as they can spend it as they see fit. We’ve tried overturning it a couple of times, but seems people don’t mind paying it. Don’t know seems funny to me.

        up the hill
        airborne

      • http://donthaveone Beberoni

        Same here in Indiana. We are taxed for storm sewer run off, which is nothing but the rain water that goes into the sewers. Funny thing is, ours are all funnelled to the 4-1/2 acre pond behind my house, which never fills up, and whether it rains or its a drought, the charges are always the same. And also on the water bill, if you use say, 6000 gallons of water a month, they charge you for treating 12,000 out the other end. Now just how that doubles is a mystery to me, but its a bunch of baloney from government on the local level.

      • Old Henry

        S.C. Murf:

        I was unaware that YARDS had run-off. In my yard the rain soaks into the ground. Physics must operate differently in Sioux City. HA!

        Can’t get it over-turned? Just proves that some people are too stupid to be allowed outside.

      • Old Henry

        Berveroni:

        Sounds like they operate on that old Air Force disease. Drink one. P51.

      • http://donthaveone Beberoni

        Its all done by square footage of the property you own, whether your a business that is all concrete and it all runs off, or if you have grass and retention ponds and none if it runs off. The government originally did this to pay for new sewage lines and storm sewers and upgrades to the water treatment plant, but you know how government is, once they get money, you never see it rescinded.

      • BLM

        Too right! The Liberals are only liberal in their plans for themselves. They try to impose what they think the world should be on everyone else but make sure that it does not apply to them. and I remember picking and selling blackberries by the 5 gal bucket to the ladies in town that baked a lot. I remember picking up soda bottles from the ditches along all the roads around where we lived and taking them into the local grocery to redeem them. I remember picking up walnuts every fall and throwing them in the driveway so the vehicles would hull them and we could pick up the clean nuts and sell them bu the bag, to the baking ladies usually. or get our dad to haul them into town to the feed store that had a huller and would buy them by the truck or trailer load. All that is gone now. Big Government doesn’t want our kids learning how to work for a living. They want them to be like those Occupy Wall Street thugs looking for a hand out. That will ensure that Big Government stays in power. Politicians are all alike. Vultures looking to make a living off sticking their noses in somebody else’s business and trying to get some of it for himself. and of course trying to make himself out to be a big fish even if he is in a little pond.

      • Terry

        You are so correct!

      • http://www.lp.org Jerome Bigge

        Politicians are mostly “parasites” on the public. One interesting aspect of this is that the Congress people we vote to represent us tend to have average net worths of about a million dollars. Whereas the average voter has a net worth of a fraction of that. Additionally, a lot of politicians are lawyers. Who pass laws that will be dealt with by other lawyers. “One hand washes the other hand”. Conflict of interest is the legal term for this.

      • wrsrvn67

        Right Dave, and they seem to forget that the Government (both Federal and Local} still work for us, or at least they are supposed to. If we allow it to continue, ” We reap what we sow” I live in the Philippines now and have more freedom here than I can remember in my adult life, but here too freedom is being taken away from the people little by little and they can’t see it. Lawyers are the chief cause of the dishonesty of Government

    • Jibbs

      Your comment shows that you didn’t read the article……..IDIOT

      • Old Henry

        Yeah Jibbs. I had an instant response, but counted to ten and decided to read some of the retorts before posting my “somewhat” expetive deleted reply. I think Bob might have then banned me.

        Today I”M the one feeling a bit grouchy.

      • Jibbs

        I know the feeling all too well, stewing keeps me awake at night and in the morning I turn into Mr. Grumpy.

    • Dntmkmecmoverther

      No Ron, we are for individual rights guaranteed by the US Constitution. Whether the state or the fed steps on our toes, the bruises are the same.

    • Ken

      What’s the matter with you? You think the states have the right to be tyrannical? Power should be taken away from the federal government and given to the states. Our government is too big and inefficient. But that doesn’t mean that the states should then become our kings. To answer your last part, obama sucks.

    • slapjack

      I’ll gladly jump on board and blame anything on The Kenyan born LOOOOOOSER, Plus you libtard NITWITS that support the very existance of this piece of gutter trash. As for the kids and their Lemonade stands this is the essence of local citizens and their government not paying attention to what’s going on. Wake up AMERICA and smell the stench simmering across this great country. Get involved again and make a difference in your community. We can defeat this assualt on the very core of this great nation. Obummbo isn’t even a citizen of this great nation so why would he have any concern for Americas well being.

      • eddie47d

        I see slapjack is running his flapjack when the article specifically wasn’t about Obama. It really comes down to city councils and the laws that get enacted within local communities. Every city has laws that are head scratchers so that is where the problems have to be solved. The whole point of Girl Scouts is to teach them to be self sufficient and to make a profit in selling cookies.Their product is already deemed safe coming from a manufacturer so there is no health issue like with some vendors. Banning them from selling from their own driveway is inexcusable at best. No different than a garage sale. I would prefer that rather than they go door to door but that is okay too. Going after lemonade stands is petty for any neighbor to complain about and the police have better things to do.

    • http://www.frank1737@msn.com frank1737

      Ron,

      I am a Veteran fough for the freedom in this country for men, women, and children freedom and NOT LET Government Officials Trying To Make A Name For Their Worthless A– Self, take advantage of children and parents in this once great country! If you love a Socialist Agenda, I would recommend you relocate to Russia, Red China, Iran, etc. before someone like myself kicks you wortless psycho ass all the way to one of the fore mentioned countries!!!

      • Lost in Paradise

        Ron believe it or not some of those countries you mention have more freedom than us. You live in a country of Hogs Gone Wild.No joke! It is a real pity to what level we have degenerated to.

      • wrsrvn67

        Point well taken. I am a Vietnam Vet and now I live in the Philippines. I have much more freedom… I also have a friend that I served with in Vietnam and he lives in Ho Chi Minh City (Saigon), and he says: Bill it’s a damned shame that I had to come to live in a Communist country to get more Freedom than I had in The Land of the Free, and I feel safer walking the streets here than I did when I lived in America” GO FIGURE!!!

      • Handyman

        Thank you Frank! FREEDOM FROM BIG BROTHER.

    • Dr. smith

      ron, your such a dick, or is that dickless, like ball less, spineless. you remind me a whiney girl or is always taunting “nah nah nah naaa”.

      why do you shove your head back up your ars take out the trash like your nagging fat wife told you 20 minutes ago and let the adults have an intelligent conversation.

    • CJM

      Why not Ron. When you think about it, none of this sort of thing happened until the liar-in-chief invaded the Oval Office through fraudulant practices. Yes, I do blame your goober in the WH.

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