Comments Subscribe to Personal Liberty Digest™ News Feed Subscribe to Personal Liberty Digest™ 

Did The U.S. Sanction Murder?

October 7, 2011 by  

Did The U.S. Sanction Murder?

An awful lot of readers will be angry at some of the things I have to say today. So before the shouting begins, let me tell you where I’m coming from, as the kids like to say.

I was raised with a profound respect for the fact that we are a nation of laws, not men: That “no one is above the law,” that a jury of our peers will decide our guilt or innocence, that we are guaranteed the right to face our accusers, that “our home is our castle” and that we will be protected in our persons and our property.

Does that sound like the America you were taught to love and revere when you were young?

It is promises like these that made our country the inspiration of the world. They are some of the reasons we became the wealthiest nation this planet has ever seen. Even the poorest among us lived better than the majority of citizens in other countries. No wonder people dreamed of becoming Americans — so many, in fact, that we had to establish a lottery to decide who could get in.

Yes, the United States of America that you and I were born into was a very special place. We knew it and were profoundly grateful for it. We gave thanks that we were lucky enough to be born here, because we knew that no other place on earth enjoyed our freedoms, our protections and our prosperity.

So what on earth happened?

Or maybe a better question is; what have we allowed our government to do to these cherished principles?

The God of the Old Testament asked His people to give 10 percent of all they earned to Him and His work. Today, our government takes four times as much from us. In fact, if you add up all of the hidden taxes we pay, the figure is probably closer to 60 percent.

In the Declaration of Independence, our Founding Fathers said one of the reasons for their rebellion against King George is that he had “erected a Multitude of new Offices, and sent hither Swarms of Officers to harass our People, and eat out their Substance.”

Those brave gentlemen wouldn’t believe how many Swarms of Officers harass us today, or how much of our Substance they consume. Have you flown anywhere lately? How many Transportation Security Administration employees did you see — many of whom were guarding hallways no one was using.

Pity you if you ever do fall afoul of some Federal bureaucrat. Our government has created so many rules and regulations and has so many agents and inspectors to enforce them, there is no way on earth you can obey them all. If they want to get you for something, they can. And worst of all, in many cases you are guilty until you prove yourself innocent.

We have gone from what was once “the land of the free and the home of the brave” to what is rapidly becoming the land of the cowed and the cowardly. Untold millions of our countrymen (some legal, some not) feed at the public trough — and get angry at us producers if we suggest cutting back their goodies by even a penny.

All of that is bad enough. But now our government has decided that it is above the law. That it can listen in on any conversation it wishes; open any mail; snoop on any citizen any time and any where; accuse us of all sorts of crimes and misdemeanors; and incarcerate us at will.

Oh, and murder anyone it says deserves it.

You think I’m exaggerating? Please consider for a moment the fate of one Anwar al-Awlaki. I won’t disagree that this demented jihadist was one of the bad guys. I’ll even grant that this renegade U.S. citizen did all he could to give “aid and comfort” (the Constitutional definition of treason) to our enemies. But so what?

As far as I know, he was never accused of a crime by any legal authority in this country or abroad. Not only did he never get a chance to face his accusers, there was never a trial or even a hearing by any court, military or civilian.

Yet the President of the United States ordered his death. And an unmanned drone, armed with a Hellfire missile, carried out the execution.

And what an interesting outcry that has produced! Ron Paul probably did his candidacy for the White House no favors when he said that it would be “sad” if “the American people accept this blindly and casually.”

The ACLU — an organization that I have never voluntarily gotten in bed with — declared:

“[T]his is a program under which American citizens far from any battlefield can be executed by their own government without judicial process and on the basis of standards and evidence that are kept secret not just from the public but from the courts.”

Former Vice President Dick Cheney praised the Obama Administration for the attack, then added that Obama owes George Bush an apology for his criticism of the Bush Administration’s actions against suspected terrorists.

But the nastiest assault on the libertarian position came from the editors of The Wall Street Journal, who promptly denounced what they called “the caviling” over Awlaki’s death. After a lengthy introduction explaining why such anonymous executions are “manifestly legal,” the Journal concluded:

“For ridding the world of the menace that was Awlaki — even while ignoring the advice of some of its ideological friends — the Administration deserves congratulations and thanks.”

I’m sorry, but this is not the America I grew up in. And it is not the America I want to see my children and my children’s children inherit.

I’m not saying we’ve never done anything wrong in the past. Abraham Lincoln suspended the U.S. Constitution for anyone he considered any enemy of the State, whether Northerner or Southerner. Franklin D. Roosevelt, in one of the most shameful moments of a Presidency that did our nation much harm, ordered 110,000 Japanese Americans to be rounded up at gunpoint and herded into concentration camps. During my lifetime, legal authorities in the South often conspired to break the law to deny black citizens their civil rights, and even encouraged (or at the very least did not stop) mob violence.

All of this was bad. And like most Americans who give any of it a moment’s thought, I regret it happened.

I feel the same way today about the frightening growth in the cost, the power, and the wicked aggressiveness of our national government. Nobody’s called me an enemy of the State… yet. But I’m worried that that day may not be far off.

When they come for us conservative opponents, how many on the left do you think will rush to our defense? Heck, how many of our colleagues on the right will be what I used to call “foxhole buddies”?

I don’t know about you, but I’m becoming more and more frightened by more and more of the actions of our government. As I said, this isn’t the America I knew and revered. How about you?

Until the next time, keep some powder dry.

–Chip Wood

Chip Wood

is the geopolitical editor of PersonalLiberty.com. He is the founder of Soundview Publications, in Atlanta, where he was also the host of an award-winning radio talk show for many years. He was the publisher of several bestselling books, including Crisis Investing by Doug Casey, None Dare Call It Conspiracy by Gary Allen and Larry Abraham and The War on Gold by Anthony Sutton. Chip is well known on the investment conference circuit where he has served as Master of Ceremonies for FreedomFest, The New Orleans Investment Conference, Sovereign Society, and The Atlanta Investment Conference.

Facebook Conversations

Join the Discussion:
View Comments to “Did The U.S. Sanction Murder?”

Comment Policy: We encourage an open discussion with a wide range of viewpoints, even extreme ones, but we will not tolerate racism, profanity or slanderous comments toward the author(s) or comment participants. Make your case passionately, but civilly. Please don't stoop to name calling. We use filters for spam protection. If your comment does not appear, it is likely because it violates the above policy or contains links or language typical of spam. We reserve the right to remove comments at our discretion.

Is there news related to personal liberty happening in your area? Contact us at newstips@personalliberty.com

  • CJ

    He may have been born in the U.S., but al-Awlaki, in many’s minds, renounced his citizenship, and entitlement to benefits thereof, when we joined the enemy. This raises the issue of who IS receiving benefits of citizenship without being a TRUE citizen. And while we debate where the lines are drawn, others get hurt by indecision. Nothing is plain-n-simple for deciding.

    • Mark Are

      Let’s see…Somehow who I am landed in a body in a place most of you call Ohio. That somehow makes me a “citizen” of the make believe place you call the USA. Sorry, I guess I really am not because I don’t remember ever signing a contract to make it so. I, as did Thomas Paine, one of our greatest founders, say this: THE EARTH IS MY COUNTRY. MANKIND IS MY BROTHERS and SISTERS. MY RELIGION IS TO DO GOOD. HOW EFFING HARD IS THIS?? Quit playing OZ and wake up to REALITY. OZ is DUNG BROWN WITHOUT YOUR CUTIE LITTLE EMERALD GLASSES.

  • Robin from Arcadia, IN

    If Bush would have been the one to order a ‘hit’ on Anwar Al-Awlaki, every liberal and some conservatives would have went ballistic. Barry, as usual, is not receiving the flak a conservative president would get for this ‘murder’. Personally, I can see both sides and in all honesty cannot decide which side is the one I would like to join. I have to agree the United States has been changing since I was a kid, and for the most part I agree with Chip’s assessment. But, this Anwar Al-Awlaki thing is difficult to sort out…

    • Jim Benat

      It’s not difficult for me to sort out. He needed to be killed, he was our enemy. It’s just that simple. All this soul searching and hand wringing makes us look even weaker than we are, and that’s saying a lot! Leave it up to Ron Paul and Chippie and we are doomed!

      • TML

        You think it’s ok for one man, a president, to order the death of any other man, without having ever been formally accused of a crime, or any due process of law whatsoever… and you want to say that leaving it up to Chip and Ron will send us to our doom?

        The ignorance is stiffling.

      • Mark Are

        I’d rather be “doomed” then having people of your mentality running the show.

      • Al Sieber

        I’ll second that!!

      • Average Joe

        I’ll third that!

      • DaveH

        Unfortunately, Mark, they are.

    • kemp

      Robin
      All tge proof that we have iswhat our”trustworthy “gov tells us backed up by our “trustworthy “news media .
      Both would put a purshin rug to shame.

  • Jim Benat

    WE are at war! Those mongrel maniacs want to kill us! What is it you PC worshipers don’t understand about that? We will never get our country back because of PC gibberishy articles like this and people who agree with it. Our lives, our families lives, and America is under attack. Taking out their leaders is better than taking out a regiment of soldiers. Maybe we should have challenged old al-wacko to a duel. Would that be nicer?
    Back in the American Revolution it was considered (by the English) un-gentlemanly to shoot a enemy officer. Our snipers thought it was great sport to plink the leaders who were directing their troops to kill Americans. I kinda side with the snipers.

    • Mark Are

      Mongrel maniacs? Thanks Archie. How’s Edith?

  • Roger

    Chip: Where were you during the hysteria that gave us the “Patriot” (sic) act? When they fired journalists who dared to question the Irag war? The ACLU was there, as they were for each of the other atrocities you mention. Your friends on the left WILL be there if they start rounding up conservative columnists.

    • DaveH

      Where were you lefties when the President signed the extension of the Patriot Act? Where were you when he illegally invaded Libya? Why have you let him get away with staying in Iraq, when he campaigned on the platform to get us out of Iraq?
      It seems that your morality only is in effect when Republicans are in charge.

  • bruce

    Chip,
    I almost always agree, but in this case, I only want to point out the he deserved what he got. He was an enemy of the state because he was recruiting jihadists against us and for the purpose of committing terrorist acts against us. Thus, the kill or capture order. Imagine the jihadists using our system against us over and over to escape justice and laughing at how stupid America is and how soft we are, as they slaughter thousands more of us. THis puke was a terrorist and he was clearly involved in treason against the state, for which in the good ol days you refer he’d have been hanged, possibly in the field so that the enemy whould see their future fate. Chip, love ya, but this is a war, and he was fair game. I certainly agree that Obama is a hypocrit in many, many ways and wants to create IMAGE, IMAGE, IMAGE for political purposes, and has done many things that he CAMPAIGNED against. He’s an idiot “community organizer” and all he really knows to do is pit one group against the other–that’s it. His incompetence is abundantly obvious, just as his socialist ideals became obvious while the Dems held both houses of Congress. It’s almost humorous now to watch him flounder with no clue as to WHY the American people find him a phoney,incompetent fascist whacko with no clue how to lead and govern in a free society.

    • Mark Are

      So, exactly what is the “State” that he was an “enemy” of. What PROOF do you have? AND what is a “state”?

      • Thor

        Not a personal attack…just an observation: you are one of those people who actually believe that a tree can fall in the forest and not make a sound…simply because you are not there.

      • Mark Are

        Glad you know all about what I believe about trees falling in the forest. Simpleton.

      • Average Joe

        I think “Thor” has been hit in the head too many times…with his own hammer.

        It’s “HAMMER TIME”!

      • DaveH

        So you’re one of those people who believe a tree has fallen in the forest because a known liar told you so, Thor?

      • Thor

        When a tree falls anywhere it leaves evidence. That evidence and the fact that the laws of physics are not suspended in one’s absence allows one to draw the practical and valid conclusion that a sound was made. The same may be said of the evidence against Awlaki and all the anti-American sounds he’s made over the years. Valid conclusion–irrespective of any lies told: the man was an enemy of the US state.

      • DaveH

        What evidence? Where is the court trial that gives both sides a chance to give testimony?
        You were a cop? Actually, that doesn’t surprise. The cops who I have known personally were mostly self-righteous people who had little use for legitimate adjudication.

      • Average Joe

        Thor,
        If a tree falls in the forrest and no one hears it…does it make any difference at all?
        Are you one of those people that can’t see the forrest…because there are too many trees in the way?

  • William Miller

    This person was a terrorist of terrorists and had no rights except to die on his battlefield … which was not where he ‘claimed’ citizenship. I agree that this America is not the same place I grew up in .. where kids could walk to school or go fishing all day at the ol fishin hole .. etc and I doubt it will ever be again. BUT homegrown or foreign .. a terrorist will kill whoever and how many people he/she can without remorse. I do not particularly like the ‘monitoring’ of our lives and somehow it needs to be more controlled or focused but it sure seems to have been working to eliminate many real plots and threats. Granny is right on and I am much more aggressive than that. I WILL protect my family, friends and country at all costs.

  • Samuel Clemens

    P.S. Tokyo Rose was America. Who? Look it up.

    • http://www.boblivingstonletter.com/ Bob Livingston

      Dear Samuel Clemens,

      And if you referencing specifically American citizen Iva Toguri D’Aquino, she was tried and convicted on one of eight counts of treason. She served a sentence and was paroled. She was later pardoned by President Ford.

      Al-Awlaki was not afforded a trial.

      Best wishes,
      Bob

    • Jibbs

      Iva Toguri d’Aquino and “Tokyo Rose”

      Following the Japanese surrender in September 1945, American troops began searching for Japanese military leaders and others who may have committed war crimes. The press—sometimes following, sometimes beating the military to the scene—did the same.

      Two of these reporters, Henry Brundidge and Clark Lee, sought “Tokyo Rose,” the notorious siren who tried to demoralize American soldiers and sailors during the war by highlighting their hardships and sacrifices.

      Through their legwork and contacts, the two reporters quickly identified one young American woman, Iva Ikuko Toguri d’Aquino, who had made such broadcasts. Brundidge and Lee offered her a significant sum, which they later reneged on paying, for exclusive rights to interview her. Aquino agreed, signing a contract that identified her as “Tokyo Rose.”

      The problem for Aquino, though, was that “Tokyo Rose” was not an actual person, but the fabricated name given by soldiers to a series of American-speaking women who made propaganda broadcasts under different aliases. As a result of her interview with the two reporters, Aquino came to be seen by the public—though not by Army and FBI investigators—as the mythical protagonist “Tokyo Rose.” This popular image defined her in the public mind of the post-war period and continues to color debate about her role in World War II today.

      Early Life

      Aquino was born Ikuko Toguri in Los Angeles on July 4, 1916. Her father, Jun Toguri, had come to the U.S. from Japan in 1899. Her mother followed in 1913, and the family eventually settled in Los Angeles. During her school years, Ikuko Toguri used the first name of Iva. She attended grammar schools in Calexico and San Diego before returning with her family to Los Angeles where she finished grammar school and went on to high school and junior college.

      Iva Toguri enrolled in the University of California at Los Angeles and graduated in January 1940 with a degree in zoology. She did graduate work there until June of that year. During her school years, Toguri was a popular student and was considered a loyal American. Her favorite pastimes included sports, hiking, and swing music. From June 1940 until July 1941, Toguri assisted her father in his mercantile shop.

      To Japan

      On July 5, 1941, Toguri sailed for Japan from San Pedro, California, without a U.S. passport. In subsequent years, she gave two reasons for her trip: to visit a sick aunt and to study medicine. In September of that year, Toguri appeared before the U.S. Vice Consul in Japan to obtain a passport, stating she wished to return to the U.S. for permanent residence. Because she left the U.S. without a passport, her application was forwarded to the Department of State for consideration. Before arrangements were completed for issuing a passport, Japan attacked America, and war was declared.

      Iva later withdrew the application, saying she would voluntarily remain in Japan for the duration of the war. She enrolled in a Japanese language and culture school to improve her language skills. From mid-1942 until late 1943, Toguri worked as a typist for the Domei News Agency; in August 1943, she obtained a second job as a typist for Radio Tokyo.

      The Zero Hour

      In November 1943, Toguri was asked to become a broadcaster for Radio Tokyo on the Zero Hour program. The program was part of a Japanese psychological warfare campaign designed to lower the morale of U.S. Armed Forces. The Zero Hour was broadcast every day except Sunday, from 6 p.m. until 7:15 p.m., Tokyo time. Toguri participated in most weekday broadcasts, but other women handled weekend duties.

      Toguri was introduced on the program as “Orphan Ann,” “Orphan Annie.” Toguri’s average time on each program was about 20 minutes, during which she made propaganda statements and introduced popular records of the day, such as “Speak to Me of Love,” “In a Little Gypsy Tea Room,” and “Love’s Old Sweet Song.” The remainder of the program was devoted chiefly to news items from America and general news commentaries by other members of the broadcasting staff.

      By late 1944, Toguri was writing her own material for the program. Her salary at Radio Tokyo reportedly amounted to some 150 yen per month—about $7 in U.S. currency. Toguri was not a professional radio personality, but many of those who later recalled hearing her enjoyed the program, especially the music.

      As far as its propaganda value, Army analysis suggested that the program had no negative effect on troop morale and that it might even have raised it a bit. The Army’s sole concern about the broadcasts was that “Annie” appeared to have good intelligence on U.S. ship and troop movements.

      On April 19, 1945, Iva Toguri married Felipe Aquino, a Portuguese citizen of Japanese-Portuguese ancestry. The marriage was registered with the Portuguese Consulate in Tokyo; however, Aquino did not renounce her U.S. citizenship. She continued her Zero Hour broadcast until the war was over.

      After The War

      In September 1945, after the press had reported that Aquino was “Tokyo Rose,” U.S. Army authorities arrested her. The FBI and the Army’s Counterintelligence Corps conducted an extensive investigation to determine whether Aquino had committed crimes against the U.S. By the following October, authorities decided that the evidence then known did not merit prosecution, and she was released.

      Before the year was out, Aquino again requested a U.S. passport. American veterans groups and noted broadcaster Walter Winchell learned of this and became outraged that the woman they thought of as “Tokyo Rose” wanted to return to this country. They demanded that the woman they considered a traitor be arrested and tried, not welcomed back.

      The public furor convinced the Justice Department that the matter should be re-examined, and the FBI was asked to turn over its investigative records on the matter. The FBI’s investigation of Aquino’s activities had covered a period of some five years. During the course of that investigation, the FBI had interviewed hundreds of former members of the U.S. Armed Forces who had served in the South Pacific during World War II, unearthed forgotten Japanese documents, and turned up recordings of Aquino’s broadcasts. Many of these recordings, though, were destroyed following the initial decision not to prosecute Aquino in 1946.

      The Department of Justice initiated further efforts to acquire additional evidence that might be sufficient to convict Aquino. It issued a press release asking all U.S. soldiers and sailors who had heard the Radio Tokyo propaganda broadcasts and who could identify the voice of the broadcaster to contact the FBI. Justice also sent one of its attorneys and reporter Harry Brundidge to Japan to search for other witnesses. Problematically, Brundidge enticed a former contact of his to perjure himself in the matter.

      With new witnesses and evidence, the U.S. Attorney in San Francisco convened a grand jury, and Aquino was indicted on a number of counts in September 1948. She was detained in Japan and brought under military escort to the U.S., arriving in San Francisco on September 25, 1948. There, she was immediately arrested by FBI agents, who had a warrant charging her with the crime of treason for adhering to, and giving aid and comfort to, the Imperial Government of Japan during World War II.

      The Trial

      Aquino’s trial began on July 5, 1949, one day after her 33rd birthday. On September 29, 1949, the jury found her guilty on one count in the indictment. The jury ruled that:

      “…on a day during October, 1944, the exact date being to the Grand Jurors unknown, said defendant, at Tokyo, Japan, in a broadcasting studio of the Broadcasting Corporation of Japan, did speak into a microphone concerning the loss of ships.”

      This made Aquino, who had gained notoriety as “Tokyo Rose,” the seventh person to be convicted of treason in the history of this country. On October 6, 1949, Aquino was sentenced to ten years of imprisonment and fined $10,000 for the crime of treason.

      On January 28, 1956, she was released from the Federal Reformatory for Women at Alderson, West Virginia, where she had served six years and two months of her sentence. She successfully fought government efforts to deport her and returned to Chicago, where she worked in her father’s shop until his death. President Gerald Ford pardoned her on January 19, 1977. She passed away in 2006.

      Neither Brundidge nor the witness testified at trial because of the taint of perjury. Nor was Brundidge prosecuted for subornation of perjury. According to FBI records available at the National Archives, the Department of Justice thought that the evidence came down to the witness’s word against that of Brundidge.

  • http://earthtigernetworking.com Timothy L. Singleton

    Whether he deserved it or not is not the issue. He was an AMERICAN and that means he does not get executed without a GD trial. Period. Am I glad he’s dead? Sure, why not? Were his rights violated? Yup. Do I care more about his rights than the rights of his victims? Nope. I care about my and your rights because when the UN decides to try to enforce the Small Arms Ban treaty it might be you and me who get executed.
    Even when you commit treason, you have to be tried. Hell, this president commits treason on a regular basis and then hypocritically executes another for treason without a trial and folks on the RIGHT want to defend Obama’s actions.
    Is it any wonder we lose our rights more each year when THIS is what passes for critical thinking amongst ourselves? I don’t know, maybe Americans are just as dumb as Obama thinks they are. They did elect the fool after all.

    • Mark Are

      Hell, THIS PRESIDENT is an ILLEGAL ALIEN! Who is kidding who?

      • Chris

        As you are so fond of saying—Prove it!!

      • Mark Are

        As they say…the PROOF is in the pudding.

      • James

        Mark, Are you saing an illegal alien president deprived al-Awlaki of his life without due process of law?

    • Lawrence DeYoung

      He had dual citizenship. The U.S. and Yemen. By our citizenship laws he forfieted his U.S. citizenship when he willingly,and knowingly, decided to become a member of an orginization that has declared war on the U.S. This organization has proclaimed that its intent is to strike at any and all U.S. interests. This included property, personnel and, any other U.S. citizen wherever they may be. Please stop referring to him as a U.S. citizen. You are giving me a strong sense of patriotism that I’m sure was not your intent. Also, you are giving me another strong sense that your education of U.S. laws and, the constitution, is really lacking. I hope that these truths will cause you pause for thought and reconsideration. Thank you.

      • Jeep

        Lawrence, you tread on a fine legal line. I have always found it best to squarely land on the side of the rule of law. Tip-toeing around the edges will almost always lead to a further straying from the original line. A quick trial in abstentia initiated by a congressional panel would have ended all debate. Instead, the president un-Constitutionally appointed himself judge, jury and then let the Air Force act as executioner.

    • Don

      Hey Tim, the left is who elected obambam not the right, if you can’t tell it right don’t tell it at all, DAH !!!

  • http://yahoo.com Albert Maslar

    Anwar al-Alwalaki, American-born al Qaeda terror leader, was assassinated in Yemen by American drones reportedly controlled by the SEALs team that took out Osama bin Laden

    President Barack Obama supposedly ordered the hit in both cases, raising a plethora of legal and moral problems. U.S. government ordered assassinations across international boundaries, at the least raises red flags as to what this can possibly lead to?

    Obama may be on perfectly safe legal ground but the question is whether one person, be they a dictator or legally elected leader, has the right and/or the moral authority to order assassinations without due process, opening the proverbial Pandora’s Box for self judgment and retribution, both typical of dictator tyrants.

    Osama bin Laden and Anwar al-Alwalaki perhaps should have been tried in absentia for terroristic crimes but American citizen Alwalaki might have been entitled to a trial before he was summarily taken out. It matters not that Alwalaki was in all probability guilty as charged but does that make Obama “Judge, Jury, and Executioner?”

    That type of assassination is the modus operandi of the very tyrant dictators the U.S. is fighting. America crossed into Pakistan to kill Osama bin Laden in cold blood while virtually defenseless and not offering armed resistance, while Alwalaki was killed in Yemen.

    Candidate Obama criticized President George W. Bush for his military excursion and diversion into Iraq, while now President Obama continues the Bush wars but extends his nation building into Egypt, Libya, Syria, and Yemen along with extending military intrusions into Pakistan. Obama’s plate is more than full.

    At what point in the world can America not cross borders cowboy and Bush II style to get the bad guys? Can America cross national borders willy-nilly before all other terrorist countries similarly lay claim to the same rights and physically cross into U.S. territory to get whomsoever they will? Unfortunately what goes around comes around, and in the process President Barack Obama may have inadvertently painted himself into a corner with a “wanted” sign upon himself.

    Albert Maslar
    amaslar2@yahoo.com

    • JCLEE

      They all ready crossed into this country on 9-11 (did those in the tower get a trial?)
      War is not pretty. Many soldiers died without a jury trial or just blamed for committing a crime,(fighting for country) some died on many fronts(D-Day for example) without getting to fire one shot.

    • professor

      A public trial for Al cretin would have played right into the hands of the libs! They would have loved a trial.

      The radicals in this country would have used Al cretin, as a tool to fan the flames of hatred against our country. Al cretin would have been given a public platform, for years. He would have been spewing his hate for Americans, and justifying the terrorists cause. We have to be smarter than that.

      One poster suggested that they should have announced their target was the driver, not Al cretin. There have been no discussion about anyone’s civil rights…he would have been collateral damage.

  • Samuel Clemens

    I took an oath to defend the Constitution “against enemies, both foreign & domestic.” Why this BS about him being an American? Being American gives no one immuniety. And war is not murder. People that do not know the Constitution should not wrap themselves in it.

    • Mark Are

      People who do not know the Constitution should not even MENTION IT! Hint, hint…

      • Average Joe

        It isn’t that they don’t know the Constitution…it is the fact they they don’t actually UNDERSTAND what they read. Anyone can memorze a document…the key is to understand the meaning (wich unfortunately, there are too many people that don’t comprehend what they’ve read).
        I love it when someone tells me that they have “Constitutional Rights”…when in fact, the Constitution ,grants no rights at all.
        The document tells the Federal Government…what it can and cannot do…period. Our “Rights’ are granted by our creator (whether you believe in one or not)…don’t believe me? Try reading the Declaration of Independence :

        We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.–That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed,……

        For those who still don’t get it…you have no Constitutional Rights….the Constitution is a set of rules that the government must follow…we are not a party to the Constitution….the government IS…think otherwise?…show me your signature on the Document…if you did not sign the document…how can you possibly be a party to the contract?…..YOU CAN’T. We don’t have a contract with the government…they have a contract with US….
        The problem arises when idiots allow the government to violate that contract with impunity….the more we allow…the more they will violate….the RULE OF LAW….still matters…but not for long at this rate.

        Idiots to the left of me…Morons to the right…here I am…stuck in the middle……again…….

      • James

        Average Joe, I agree. The U.S. Constitution created the federal government; delegated certain powers to it; and denied Congress the power to make laws concerning our rights. That’s all it says and that’s all it means.

    • James

      Samuel C. The 14th Amendment says: “All persons born…in the United States…are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside…nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law.” Al-Awlaki was deprived of his life without due process of law.

      • Ted G

        I’m pretty sure the drone that fired that hellfire missile was not flying over New Mexico when it deprived ol’ al of his right to make war upon the US.

      • James

        Are you saying American citizens who travel abroad lose their rights?

  • Brent

    Overlooked in this entire argument is the action of al-Awlaki. This individual, voluntarily left the boundaries of the US and joined up with an hostile force on, what can easily be declared, a foreign battlefield and engaged in actions designed to bring death and harm to America and her citizens. By international treaty, commonly referred to as the Laws of War, this moved al-Awlaki from non-combatant, to combatant status and made him an eligible target for military action, which action was carried out. There never really needed to be a legal opinion drafted. Let me assure you that if the US could have targetted the person known as Tokyo Rose during WW2, we would have done so. That particular turncoat was dubbed a traitor and rightly would have been eligible for death if one of our bombers had happened to drop a bomb on her.

    This nitpicking and extra-legal arguing ignores the facts of the case and only stands if one accepts certain assumptions, which assumptions, in reality, do not apply.

    Bottomline, if you take up arms against the US, whether literally or by directing, training, motivating those who do physically take up arms, then you have moved yourself into the hostile category and are a perfectly legitimate target! You have forfeited your so-called legal rights by doing so. End of discussion!!!

    • Mark Are

      Is this a forum for FOOLS? PROOF PLEASE!

      And btw our Founding Fathers took up arms against THEIR country. Oh, how we forget…

      I wish I could BOLD THIS…
      But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security

      • Ted G

        You’re quite the contradiction aren’t you. Do you think I need the governments permission or the aggregate legal communities approval before I take out an [word removed]! Sorry Mark, you ‘d be better off directing your ire to the real corruption of our consitution where it should be…on Obama’s and congress’ actions of ignoring the limited enumerated powers that they should be following but don’t.
        You seem to want to take back the governement for this issue alone when all the others are much more damaging to this great nation!

      • Maranatha Mark

        Mark why don’t you prove he DIDN’T renounce his American Citizenship, and he DIDN’T wage War against this nation, where he was born of 2 Yemen citizens (Not American Citizen). Go to the man’s website and review all his Jihadist teachings and Anti-American rhetoric. Yemen does not extradite terrorist or it’s citizens to the U.S. So do allow the man to continue to direct actions against the U.S. and American citizens because he can’t be extradited to stand trial? How do you stop him from making more folks like the nut at Ft. Hood, the underware bomber and others? He was an anchor baby citizen when he was born, and he used that status to get an education, then to show his appreication to this country, he join our enemies and directed various terrorist operations, a fact that he never hid after the fact, and was proud of.

        So I think the proof is on you sir, to prove he was an American citizen. Or at least explain what you believe it takes to renounce your citizenship, if you believe you can renounce it.

        The videos I have seen of this piece of human refuse, clearly show a man who is trying to aid our enemies during a time of war.

        In case you are wonder, I think Obama is as bad as ole brother Al, when it comes hatred for this country, but Obama is here in on American soil, if we ever want to get serious about bringing Obama the traitor to trial. If ole Al, was here in the states or was just visiting aboard, but was coming back to the U.S. soil, citizen or not, I’d be with Chip on this, arrest and try him when he comes back. But as I understand it, coming back to America wasn’t in Al’s top 100 things to do or his travel plans. Again, what do you do, when Yemen isn’t going to allow our Mashalls, FBI agents or Military go arrest this guy, but the guy is directing terrorist actions against Americans and this country?

        If I thought Al was an American, I would be more concerned, but as best I can tell, as I said before, he had renounced his citizenship so I don’t think you can call him an “American” citizen, unlike the people at Waco, TX or Randy Weaver on Ruby Ridge in Idaho. While I don’t agree with David K. at Waco, he and his followers were American citizens, and all Randy Weaver was guilty of was wanting to live away from the rat race. These WERE Government sanctioned murders of American citizens, yet Janet Reno nor Bill Clinton ever went on trial for these murders! Funny how folks didn’t get that worked up over these blatant murders on American soil, but get white-lipped about real terrorist who has aided our enemies during a time of war and personally directed terrorist acts against the U.S. resulting in 2 dozen+ people killed.

      • Ted G

        Maranatha, agreed and well Said also.

      • http://?? Joe H.

        Marantha,
        As the progs are so fond of saying, you can’t prove a negative!!

    • Ted G

      Agreed and well said!

  • Jennie

    Due process . . . . down the drain with this administration. Considering alAwlaki may have been a monster and a traitor, but he was an American citizen; exectued without a trial or due process. Now we will never know the exact reason he was eliminated. The President of the United States is just the President of the United States . . . he is not granted the right to executive whomever he pleases. A trial would have given a reason and evidence; now we will never know why BHO acted as judge and jury, contrary to the law. This sets a very dangerous precedent.

  • kodster5

    Another writer brought up a serious point that you failed to expose in your article, Chip… and that was the fact that Anwar al-Awlaki was a dual citizen… of the US AND Yemen. “How could he possibly be loyal to both – or either? One nation is defined by its commitment to liberty, self-government, a nation under God. The other stands for tyranny and terror.” Those two nations stand at juxtaposition to each other. And obviously, al-Awlaki chose to follow his 2nd nation, in loyalty, because he encouraged the tyranny and terror against his birth nation.

  • Les

    Chip, welcome to Amerika. What has happened to the US of A over the last 40 years reminds me of the “How to boil a frog” story. Everything done by the Fed has been leading up to this. All these federal departments continue to multiply and grow. But this will all come to an end. They are spending twice as much as they take in every year. If you tax me at or near 100%, do you think I will continue working?

    We are supposed to be a Republic ruled by laws. We stopped being a Republic with good old Abe Lincoln, everybody seems to miss that point. That’s when they found you can violate the Constitution with no repercussions and we have been going down hill ever since.

    • Mark Are

      ABSOLUTELY RIGHT. Old ABE SHOULD HAVE BEEN TRIED FOR TREASON AND PUBLICLY EXECUTED. Maybe if I had been alive…

      • Alex

        This ‘Mark Are’ is clearly a Tea Party shill trying to stir the water.

      • Buster the Anatolian

        I would say a liberal plant trying to start arguments with his extremist statements.

      • Mark Are

        Yes, we are living in the day where right is wrong, up is down, black is white, good is evil and liberal is conservative. Someone who believes in the CONSTITUTION and the following of it, somehow today is a liberal while people who think it is to be ignored are conservatives. YUP. EYZ A LIBERALL!

      • http://donthaveone Beberoni

        No Mark, we are living in the days when wrong is right, and right is wrong.

      • http://?? Joe H.

        Mark Are,
        Why you liberal plant, you!! HeHe! couldn’t resist!!!

      • DaveH

        Read the book “The Real Lincoln” by Thomas DiLorenzo, and wake up:
        http://mises.org/store/Real-Lincoln-The-P172.aspx

  • Karolyn

    Why no mention of Samir Khan, the kid from Charlotte? His parents have been complaining for days that the State Department did not even contact them. Finally, yesterday they received condolences.

    This is a tough choice for me. Knowing that treason is an offense punishable by death; and knowing for a fact that these two were treasonous, it would seem that their deaths were justified. On the other hand, Chip’s point is very valid.

    I also have a third choice in that I believe that death is, in essence, a reward; that the spirit is freed from the vessel it has had to carry around for so long. That’s why I feel that the death penalty is, in fact, not the worst punishment anyone can get; life is!

    At any rate, these two made their choices and had to have known they were in danger every day. They certainly deserved death – we all do. The manner is what is so controversial. People had tried to save Khan. His mentors in the Charlotte Muslim community really worked on him for years to try to keep him on the straight and narrow, but it obviously did not work.

    The fact that these deaths may actually keep more Americans alive certainly does come into play here also. It might be said that the fates of many have been changed by the death of only 2. In that regard, it is a good thing.

    • Mark Are

      HOLY CRAP! Vote this woman in as PREZEDENT and she can NUKE THE WORLD and think she was doing us all a favor. WTF is this country made up of? TOTAL NUTCASES?????

      • Opal the Gem

        “WTF is this country made up of? TOTAL NUTCASES?????”

        Perhaps and you are at the top of the list.

      • Mark Are

        So what you are doing is siding with the woman above who thinks that being dead is better than being alive? And that somehow “we” freed him from his body he was trapped in? Can you try this for me? Find a GUN, be sure it is LOADED, place the part with the big hole in it next to your temple and pull the trigger. After wards you will be FREE. And I’m the nutcase?

      • Karolyn

        So sad to see such a closed mind. :-( Whether you espouse what I believe or not, I have the right to believe it without someone having such animosity and telling me to shoot myself.

      • DaveH

        Have pity for poor Karolyn. She is a very mixed up person.

      • Average Joe

        Karolyn,
        I believe the comment was directed at “Opal the Gem”(because of the silly comment opal made) and not at you. I could be wrong….but that’s the way I took it.

      • http://donthaveone Beberoni

        Wow. You just singled yourself out as one of those you were singling out.

    • Iris

      Seems reasonable to me. Too many of the commenters seem to think somehow we can live a perfect world, where it is easy to discern black and white. As a member of this ‘jury’, I would have to say that the evidence is indeed on the side of a sentence of death.

      As for the PERFECT people who want PERFECT justice, I would love to hear from YOUR families and loved ones.

    • Al Sieber

      What the Hell is that suppose to mean Karolyn?

    • Buster the Anatolian

      “I also have a third choice in that I believe that death is, in essence, a reward; that the spirit is freed from the vessel it has had to carry around for so long. That’s why I feel that the death penalty is, in fact, not the worst punishment anyone can get; life is!”

      There are those who would dissagree with that view. The dissagreement comes from the belief of many that when the spirit is freed it passes to another dimension (Heaven or Hell) for its just rewards or punishment. Then you have the Navaho belief that say (very simplified) that if you are evil your spirit hangs around to harrass others but if you are good it goes into the unknown.

    • Average Joe

      Karolyn,

      “and knowing for a fact that these two were treasonous, it would seem that their deaths were justified.”

      You base this statment on what “facts”? I am guessing that without a court case…there are no facts…only assumptions and enuendo as proposed by the government and media… Do you believe everything the government and media feed you? (judging by your statement, the answer is yes).Pssst..this is why we supposedly have a rule of law…to bring forth the facts….while weeding out the assumptions and enuendo. I can (or the government can) insinuate that you are a terrorist with designs on blowing up the Whitehouse and have you shot for treason tomorrow…Does the insinuation make it true? Of course not…but by your own reasoning, you should have no problem at all with being executed immediately…right? After all the government says you’re guilty…why bother with a trial…right?…Heck if you don’t believe the government, it was reported on the news…therefore…you must be guilty…right?…
      When you are on a slippery slope…be careful not to lose your footing…because there is a good chance that you will fall and bust you A55!

      Think before you speak….your very life may depend on it.

      • Karolyn

        Well, Joe, there are videos and there is the online magazine that the Khan started and was proud of. There was a lot of news about him here on the local Charlotte stations, including interviews with former mentors and members of the Muslim community.

  • http://aol.com sean murrey ILLIniois

    This guy was an enemy of America a enemy soldier he deversed to be killed the author sounds like he has not served in service to this country i have.

    • Mark Are

      PROOF PLEASE…and please send me a copy of your discharge that shows you weren’t kicked out for being normal. Apparently you fit the typical description of someone without a conscience.

  • Morduin00

    One of the conditions for losing one’s citizenship in the US is to make war or participate in war against the US. Al-Awlaki has done that and therefore abrogated his citizenship.

    However, I agree with the remainder of your argument. Government has become way too over-reaching and dangerous. We the people need to wake up and start correcting our past mistakes by replacing those in office that continue these policies.

    • Mark Are

      PROOF PLEASE!

      • Morduin00

        With regards to revocation of citizenship here is your proof:
        Title 3 Chapter 3 Section 349 Paragraph (a) Subparagraph(7) LOSS OF NATIONALITY BY NATIVE-BORN OR NATURALIZED CITIZEN

        “committing any act of treason against, or attempting by force to overthrow, or bearing arms against, the United States, violating or conspiring to violate any of the provisions of section 2383 of title 18, United States Code, or willfully performing any act in violation of section 2385 of title 18, United States Code, or violating section 2384 of said title by engaging in a conspiracy to overthrow, put down, or to destroy by force the Government of the United States, or to levy war against them, if and when he is convicted thereof by a court martial or by a court of competent jurisdiction.”

        So the only real question is did he receive a trial or tried in abstentia?

      • Morduin00

        Sorry… the above is from the Immigration and Nationality Act as amended in 1996.

    • Joe

      People born in the US can never lose their citizenship. Only naturalized citizens can.

      • Chris

        Actually Joe, US citizens can give up their citizenship. It happens every day.

      • Average Joe

        Chris,
        Reading comprehension problems? There is a difference in concepts between losing one’s rights and giving them up through expatriation.In the future, you might try responding to the actual song being played…rather than putting your own spin from a completely different recording.

        Lose:verb (used with object)
        1. to come to be without (something in one’s possession or care), through accident, theft, etc., so that there is little or no prospect of recovery: I’m sure I’ve merely misplaced my hat, not lost it.
        2. to fail inadvertently to retain (something) in such a way that it cannot be immediately recovered: I just lost a dime under this sofa.
        3. to suffer the deprivation of: to lose one’s job; to lose one’s life.
        4. to be bereaved of by death: to lose a sister.
        5. to fail to keep, preserve, or maintain: to lose one’s balance; to lose one’s figure.

        Give up: to give away something freely and of your own volition.

        Stop trying to compare Watermellons to Winnebagos. (Two completely different concepts).

  • Kim Bruce

    Chip,

    Just because a person is born in the US does not make him an ideological US citizen. When Anwar Al-Awlaki was seven years old, his parents moved him fromNew Mexico back to Yemen to live, and he lived there until he was 19 years of age, when he decided to come back to the good old generous US of A to get his University degree.
    Then he took his new-found knowledge of Islamism to become an Imam in some notorious mosques. One of these mosques was frequented by the 9/11 attackers. Later he would be responsible for the brainwashing of the Fort Hood jihadist.

    His ideology was Islam. Islam does not make you a citizen of any country but a citizen of Allah. Any land you live in is referred to as dar al-Harb or land of war until it is conquered by the armies of Allah to become dar al-Islam or land of submission.

    Anwar was an enemy, a traitor, and no citizen of the US. He was a citizen of Allah and Muhammad’s armies to conquer the US and establish a caliphate.
    Look at it this way, if, during the Revolutionary War, an American had crossed over to the British side, would he then be considered a US citizen or would he be a traitor and setting himself up for a death sentence in the battlefield?

    • Mark Are

      I guess I’m not an “ideological” citizen of the US either. Not if people like you represent the “ideological” content of what a US Citizen should have floating around in his brain. I must be on the list somewhere for a hell fire missile to blow me and my family to hell too. Ideologically, I believe in the Constitution. Which GUARANTEES ever citizen the right to a fair trial. Well, maybe except for “citizens” like YOU. Even your thoughts are threat to decency. But maybe that is the new norm…

      • http://donthaveone Beberoni

        Again Mark, this guy does not fall under the Constitution. He gave up his American rights when he became a soldier of Islam, a sworn enemy to the United States. He was a terrorist Mark. Get it? He wanted you dead. Its people like you that make it dangerous for the rest of us. If they come for you, you no doubt would side with them against your own country. You need to move over there and become like this guy, so that we can send a missile with loving care to you also. Unbelievable that you could be an American.

      • DaveH

        And you gave up your rights, Beberoni, when you chose to ignore the Constitution and Morality.
        Murderers always have excuses for their actions.

      • http://donthaveone Beberoni

        What ever Dave. You can hold their hands and tell them what wonderful guys they are, as they sharpen their blade to cut off your head. Because if they had the capability and power to do so, we would all go under their sword, and you know it. How moral is that? I dont see how you defend that. You must be a better man than me Dave, because even though I pray for these guys, Im not going to defend them while they plan our demise. I cant do it.

      • Jibbs

        Mark,
        You can’t make stupid people understand, but should hit happen to them by mistake……oh, how they will cry fowl and wimper like scared children and they will tell you that it won’t or can’t happen to them or any American.
        Tell that to all the people that are now dead because the drug war police went to the wrong house or someone over heard something and told the police and they rushed to judgment.

        It can and it doe’s happen….more than you’ll ever know!

      • DaveH

        Some education for those who would like to know:
        http://www.cato.org/raidmap/

      • http://DoULoveJesus.Wordpress.com Mark Dabney

        Well Said – “as you judge others so shall you also be judged” Jesus Christ – sermon on the mount

        To condone the violation of other people’s rights is to condone the violation of your own rights for they have a common source

      • http://donthaveone Beberoni

        Wow. Seriously. Your going with the most used Christian attack on me? Pulling the Judgment card out? Wow. You know, just because someone speaks their opinion, or even states the truth, it has nothing to do with passing judgment. If I say your wrong, am I judging you? No. No sir Im not. But If I tell you, “your going to hell for that”, then yes sir, I would be judging you. Learn what it is to be judging someone, before you run your mouth. If I say Dale Earnhardt was a dirty racer, you would say Im judging him. No, I would be telling the truth, as I watched him race many times, and he was a dirty racer. A good one, but a dirty one. Thats not judging, thats telling it like it is. Learn the difference.

      • DaveH

        How about being a member of a very large gang who sanctions the killing of people he knows nothing about except what his lying gang leaders have said?
        You’d best hope I’m correct, Beberoni, that there is no God.

      • http://donthaveone Beberoni

        You are wrong Dave. There is a God. And He has told me He will make my enemies as footstools for me, and He knows my enemies, are enemies of Him also. If you knew God, you would know there is such a thing as righteous anger. Thing is, and I will say it again. I pray daily for the well being of my enemies Dave. I pray for good things to come to them, that they may have the life I have found. Do you suppose they pray for me?

    • http://www.boblivingstonletter.com/ Bob Livingston

      Dear Kim Bruce,

      You write: “Anwar was an enemy, a traitor, and no citizen of the US. He was a citizen of Allah and Muhammad’s armies to conquer the US and establish a caliphate.”

      Perhaps al-Awlaki was guilty of treason, as you say. Perhaps he did not hold a loyalty to the U.S., as you say. However, I believe you are too cavalier in you attitude toward the Constitution. Article 3, Section III defines treason and its punishment thusly: “Treason against the United States shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort. No Person shall be convicted of Treason unless on the Testimony of two witnesses to the same overt Act, or on Confession in open Court. The Congress shall have the Power to declare the Punishment of Treason, but no Attainder of Treason shall work Corruption of Blood, or Forfeiture except during the Life of the Person attained.” Amendment 5: “No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury… nor deprived of life, liberty or property, without due process of law…” Amendment 6: In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the State and district wherein the crime shall have been committed… to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor and to have the Assistance of Counsel for his defence.”

      Notice it does not say citizen, but person. Notice how many Constitutional violations are found just in this short paragraph. And finally, note that the only “proof” we have that al-Awlaki committed the crimes for which he was murdered comes from the government, which has proven itself to be less than truthful on many occasions. (BTW: I will address this subject more thoroughly in my column on Monday.)

      I will not address your Revolutionary War analogy as it is a non sequitur.

      I’m sure, dear Kim Bruce, that if you or your loved one were accused of a crime of any sort, you would want to employ every right you have as granted by God and guaranteed by the Constitution. I urge you, and all others who believe as you, to rethink your position from a logical, as opposed to an emotional, standpoint.

      Best wishes,
      Bob

      • Thor

        Alright, Chip, Bob, it’s time to put up or shut up:

        1) Anwar al-Awlaki’s citizenship has not been legally established. He was born in New Mexico to two non-citizens and went to Yemen at age seven, where he spent all his time (outside of that getting a free education on the US taxpayers’ dime). Awlaki himself did not consider himself a US citizen.

        2) Persons born in the US to parents who are not citizens have not been adjudicated as citizens by the Supreme Court—yet. And the question of whether the amendment (intended to make the progeny of slaves citizens of this country) has yet to be decided. And all ‘due process issues’ presuppose a person is in custody, which Awlaki was not and was going to great pains to make sure he avoided.

        3) One and two are made irrelevant by the fact the President took an oath to defend us and the US against all enemies, foreign and domestic.

        4) Citizen or not, Awlaki, a member of a politically powerful Yemeni royal family, was a sworn enemy of the US and a known leader of Al Quaeda.

        5) It is common practice for the US Military to take out enemy leadership where it finds them.

        6) The battlefield for the war we are fighting includes everything in terra firma right up to and including the keys of this computer keyboard.

        7) You and those of your political ilk are going to have to decide where to fight—here or there—and not fighting is not an option. We can bring back all the troops, etc., etc. and the wolf is still going to be at the door—only, it will be literally at your door.

        You think everything is going to be better if we just stop fighting and ‘can’t we all just get along.’ People have been saying that through all of recorded history and it has never been true and virtually every society that has ever believed it is no defunct. This is a fight for territory and the resources within that territory and it is only going to get worse. When Eisenhower was President—not so long ago—the population of Earth was 3.4 billion; yesterday—in less than one life time—it was 7 billion. It you think the Chinese or the Europeans or the South Americans are going to be less aggressive simply because we are, you are heading fast towards the ‘defunct society’ end of this thing. In the larger scheme of reality, your option to join the fight or not seems to be dwindling. So…what side are you on?

        Chip, you and Bob and Ron Paul can continue to exercise your freewill and free speech in comfort and in the safety provided by others fighting abroad all you want; but, so long as you espouse isolationism or non-aggressive, non-defense or any means of ‘bargaining with other nations’ on trade matters from any position other than one of strength, you are not only beating a dead horse, you are stoutly rapping on its sun-bleached bones.

      • Jeep

        Thor, I am sure by your postings that you are a thoughtful, loyal, patriotic citizen of the United States. I appreciate the fact that you took the time to really think through this situation. And, now for the but, I believe your argument is circular and flawed. However, it is easily fixed. A quick presentation of the “known” facts about Al-Wacko’s traitorous activities to a judge would easily suffice to obtain the necessary warrent for any action called for to end these activities (i.e. a drone strike.) The only stipulation is that the office of the president DOES NOT HAVE the authority to track down traitors. It would take congress to initiate the proceedings. If you wish to circumvent the Constitution to satisfy your beliefs, then I am worried about you.

      • Thor

        Thanks for the rebuttal, but the fly in your ointment is the plain fact that enemy combatants are not presumed guilty of ‘treason.’ For that one would have had to have been loyal in first place–which Awlaki never was. He was–always, from the age of consent–an enemy combatant.

      • Jeep

        No worries my friend…I guess we’ll just have to disagree on the point of citizenship for Al-Wacko. Again, don’t get me wrong, by all means kill him. I would just prefer to do it legally and with Constitutional authority. Your argument that he was no longer a citizen does have merit. But, I think a case can be made he was still a citizen. And, I will always believe it best to err on the side of the law.

      • eddie47d

        Sometimes we end up handling problems like Russia did with Chechnya and the constant curse of revenge. Russia would take away their rights and kill those people and then those people retaliated. Then Russia would kill more and the Chechnya’s would strike back with more dastardly deeds than the Russians. We may be more civilized but not by much.We keep poking and prodding in the Middle East and then are shocked that they strike back.Yemen is a difficult country to deal with and it would have been costly and dangerous to try and extract al Awlaki and bring him back for trial. I do not morn his death yet we have become too impatient and react without regards to the Constitution.

      • http://www.boblivingstonletter.com/ Bob Livingston

        Dear Thor,

        Rather than take over the discussion in Chip’s article with a rebuttal, I encourage you to stay tuned and read my article Monday. I believe I adequately address most of your concerns. However, I will say that the 14th Amendment, regardless of how you or I feel about it, is considered the law of the land. As such, al-Awlaki was a U.S. citizen. Irregardless, the Constitution doesn’t specify that all of those rights are strictly for U.S. citizens, as I pointed out in my reply to Kim Bruce. Wait until you see what I have to say on Monday and we can continue the discussion there.

        Best wishes,
        Bob

      • Kinetic1

        Bob,
        I appreciate the information and agree with you in general, but I do have one issue I must bring up. “Irregardless” This bastardized child of regardless and irrespective may be recognized in our dictionaries, but that is no excuse for it’s continued use. Just a pet peeve of mine.

      • DaveH

        Kinetic,
        I expect more than that from you.

      • Str8Truth

        For evil to succeed, good men need do nothing. Each of us must stand for the rule of law. To do otherwise is to succumb to tyranny and mob rule, or the worst of man, survival of the fittest. Now the question becomes where is the battlefield, when it is on someone else’s property or country it is out of sight out mind, when it is in your country a good citizen will lay down his own life for the rule of law, and if it is on his own property he has the right to self defense as provided by the 2nd amendment. Let us always seek to defend life, liberty and the pursuit there of by (hard work and sacrifice). I will stand in defense of my family and those who are innocent and in harms way. All good citizens should seek to do the same, especially when the wolf is knocking at the door. Christ said, “If you abide in My word, … you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.”

      • Jibbs

        What about Barry/Barak?? they made him president and he’s not a legal citizen

      • http://DoULoveJesus.Wordpress.com Mark Dabney

        Defense is one thing – militarism another -

        Care to explain why after all these years our borders are being left wide open and our immigration laws unenforced?

        in October of 1980 – with my right hand raised I stated the following before a USAF officer: “I solemnly affirm that I will protect – uphold and defend the constitution of the united states against all enemies foreign and domestic – and I take this affirmation freely with no purpose of moral evasion”

        Again, all enemies – foreign AND DOMESTIC.

        You find out what happened to the 2.3 T$ that Rumsfeld announced missing – whose records were conveniently destroyed the next day when the Pentagon was hit – THERE ARE YOUR TERRISTS – THE ENEMY DOMESTIC

      • Mark Are

        MURDER IS MURDER. At least in my mind.

      • DaveH

        Thor,
        You’re a scary person. I wouldn’t want you on my jury if I’d been accused of a wrong-doing.
        How many Muslims have been killed by our military?
        How many American citizens have been killed by Muslims?
        After you and your war-mongering fellows have impoverished our country and made us enemies throughout the world, the rest of us will have to suffer for your indiscretions. I don’t approve.

      • Thor

        Sorry you feel that way, DaveH. Neither you nor this nation needs me ‘and [my] warmongering friends’ to make the US the enemy of the world. Having the last free market, capitalist economy on earth in a supply and demand world would accomplish that feat, even if we all stayed home and made jello instead of war. You should know that a large portion of my life has been dedicated to protecting folks just like you. Regardless of what you may think of my ethics, I did it so you could say things about me like you just did. You are welcome.

      • DaveH

        No doubt there are people (probably mostly the leaders) of other countries who hate us out of jealousy. But that’s no excuse for our immoral actions.
        And we Don’t have Free Markets. We’re a long way from that. You need to watch John Stossel on Fox Business Network, or do some reading at mises.org where they teach real economics, not the political kind that strives to placate the serfs.
        And I know you were in law enforcement. Do you think that impresses me? I have always been so law-abiding that I had very few friends in high school because I wouldn’t party and carouse with them. Still, I’ve had several run-ins with the cops who are supposedly “protecting me”. Of the 4 cops I’ve known personally, 3 of them were liars.
        The police are minutes away when my life is seconds away from being taken. What I worry most about is one of your kind mistakenly raiding my house and abusing or killing my family. See the raid map I posted in another comment.
        Thanks, Thor, but no thanks, I choose to protect myself.

      • Thor

        …then I don’t suppose wounds received in an earlier career would impress you either…good luck and best wishes, DaveH.

      • DaveH

        No it doesn’t impress me, Thor. However, I am sorry that happened to you. I certainly don’t wish you ill.
        Personally, I’m lucky to be alive with all the wild and crazy things I did when I was a teenager. Such is life. None of us will get out of it alive.

      • http://donthaveone Beberoni

        I agree. You are a true red blooded American. Those that want to curl up in a ball and wet their pants, wait for guys like you and I to come save them, and that is a shame. I will have to say, if I decided to crap on this country, move to say, Syria, and I stir up hatred against the United States, and side with those who seek to destroy us, and then the United States launces a missle up my butt, I would pretty much understand that I got what I had coming to me. You slap someone, you better be ready to get slapped back. Bottom line. If I go around doing rotten stuff, I better expect rotten stuff to be done to me. If I go around doing good stuff, good stuff comes to me. Thats just how it is. I just cant believe that people can actually call themselves Americans, and defend those who hate us and want us dead. It amazes me. This tolerance and pacifism is getting us in deep, deep trouble. Deep trouble.

      • Average Joe

        Beberoni,

        Considering how many times you shoot yourself in the foot…just posting here, I seriously doubt anyone here needs your help or defense.
        There would be way too much paperwork to fill out…explaining how you missed the perp and shot yourself instead… while getting your gun out. You remind me of the guy who puts a gun to his own head and says…”don’t laugh, you’re next”….

      • DaveH

        “curl up in a ball and wet their pants”?
        Beberoni, it is you who is the coward. I’m not afraid of the terrorists. It truly amazes me how people like you will try to turn the tables on the rest of us.

      • http://donthaveone Beberoni

        After all your attacks Dave, I have to consider this. When you say your not afraid of the terrorists, I have to wonder why. For this reason. You have stated here and before, how you are scared to death of the cops, your scared to death of our government, but yet your not worried a bit about the terrorists. That is pretty amazing stuff. Where as I am not afraid of the police, as I know many of them personally since youth, and have attended mission trips with others. Kind loving family men. Our government, uh, well, I have know a few politicians, but I dont have as kind words to say about them, so Ill just leave it at that. And the terrorists? Well, put it this way. You wont see me defending them. You reap what you sow, you make a bed and you sleep in it. Everything we do is like a set of levels. What you do on one side, has a direct effect on the other. You need to consider what is happening with the things you do, and be prepared for the consequences of your actions, in anything any of us do. Thats just how it is.

      • Mudcat

        Since we have declared war on terrorism; and, to our best knowledge, Anwar is a known terrorist, would it not then seem cogent that any such terrorist is not entitled to the same privileges granted US citizens. We are not required to read terrorists any “rights” during acts of war. Just a thought….

    • Alex

      The term “ideological US citizen” is both offensive to anyone, on any side of the fence, as well as dangerous.

    • James

      Kim, Mere words don’t amend the Constitution. The 14th Amendment, Section 1 reads: “All persons born or naturalized in the United States and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside…nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law.” That’s the law that President’s are supposed to obey.

    • professor

      Kim,

      Glad you posted that info about “Al cretin” being from Yemen. The fact that his parents are not citizens, is more proof that we don’t need to allow “anchor babies.” No other country allows its population and culture to be diluted with Millions of people like this Al cretin.

      When handing out citizenship papers, other countries, put much more value on them, than we do. We hand out citizenship, to this country, as if it were a cheap lottery ticket! No wonder we have the scum we do, voting and making our laws..

      Like some others, I am appalled that there are Americans still defending the citizenship status of this Yemeni terrorist. Even after he declared war on this country, and recruited a foreign army to kill as many Americans as possible, these Americans still want to spend Millions on a public trial.. And the trial would be bad for our country. Libs would use it as a platform to incite more hatred towards America..

      His parents were “living here illegally,” when he was born,and he should never have been considered a citizen, in the first place. This man is no American, anyway you cut it.

      • James

        We’re supposed to be a nation of laws, not men.

      • James

        However logical your argument may be, the 14th Amendment says: “All persons born…in the United States..are citizens of the United States.” There is no requirement that the new-born’s parents must be citizens. Mexican mothers-to-be step across our border and give birth to citizens of the United States every day.

  • Sam B

    I am in total agreement with Denis and Granny. These individuals (so called Americans) were traitors to their country and were responsible for an untold number of American deaths. Their deaths will undoubtedly save many American lives, and it’s those lives we should be thankful for, not any misguided thought about giving those twerts a trial (with the respect that goes along with it) in an Americal court system!!

    • Mark Are

      PROOF PLEASE. Show me how you “know” the dribble you spout off as facts.

      • http://donthaveone Beberoni

        It is a fact you ninny. You leave an enemy unchecked and look the other way, ala Bill Clinton, and next thing you know, the World Trade Centers are coming down. You can stick your head in the sand Mark, and act like everything is just rosy posy, but these guys want you dead, and they will kill you as quick as they would kill me or George Bush or Barack Obama. They dont care who you are or what you stand for, if you differ in your belief system than them, you sir are then declared an infidel, and infidels are only deserving of death. Welcome to the Islamic religion. Now stop defending them you idiot. Wake up and smell the roses, before they are burying you under them.

      • http://DoULoveJesus.Wordpress.com Mark Dabney

        “If tyranny and oppression ever come to this land – it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy” James Madison

        The REAL terrists are the ones that flat out LIED to us – you mention the world trade centers – how did the nano-thermite get in there well in advance to set off the controlled demolition? According to Dr. Alan Sabrosky – former Director of Studies at the War College – it is known that criminal elements of the Mossad were heavily involved in 9/11

        You have chosen to blindly believe that Muslims did it because that is what the ZioNazi media has told you over & over – not because you have ever been given any real evidence of any kind\

      • http://donthaveone Beberoni

        Really? Have you ever heard of any of the conversations of the people on the plane that they attacked the terrorists and dove it into the ground? That was all a set up too? If you believe some left wing liberals agenda, you do it. I saw the planes go into the buildings, I saw the fire, and when you add up all the gallons of jet fuel burning, and the melting and weakening temperature of the steel, and the ill design of innadequate cross supports, as the first few floors dropped, it makes perfect sense why they collapsed like they did. Now you can blame the Republicans or the Democrats or Ron Paul or whoever you want, but me, I will blame those who we know did it, and not only that, those who claimed they did it and celebrated they did it. And yes, we have much, much more info than you or I know about who these guys were, and where they trained all over at, and who funded them, and you and I both know the Saudi’s, the Iranians, the Syrian’s, the Iraqis during Saddam, all of them have a hand in this. Dont fool yourself. They want to cut your head off pal. Pat them on the back if you want, but me, sorry, I can read the writing on the wall, and its plain english.

      • professor

        I am not letting muslims off the hook on 911.. Nineteen of the terrorists were muslims from Saudi Arabia….I suppose they were working for Bush and Cheney! Lets get back into the real world and face it the facts. This is not the first time they have blown up American property. We just refused to notice or react. They were encouraged by our lack of ability to defend ourselves..
        We have an enemy, with a single purpose..They want to destroy us and build the biggest mosque, in the world, where the White House once stood!

      • Average Joe

        Yo! Pepperoni breath,

        Do you ever get tired of being an idiotic mouthpiece for under-educated morons? Apparently not… since I have been watching your silliness for over two years…and you still don’t have a clue….

        The issue is quite simple…the man (Anwar al-Awlaki) was born on US soil…that means he is a US citizen…as such, he is entitled to the same laws and entitlements of any other US citizen…all of them)…not just the ones that the government (or you for that matter) decide that they should or should not have. While you are “all for” taking his rights away (due proccess in a court of law), I am a betting man and I am betting that if it was your father, brother or another family member that was assasinated in this manner…you would be up in arms about them being murdered without due proccess of the law. You sir, are an idiot waiting happen…the problem is..your idiosy shows far too frequently. Don’t buy a vowel…. Buy a clue instead.

        The ignorance of one voter in a democracy impairs the security of all.
        John F. Kennedy

        The very word ‘secrecy’ is repugnant in a free and open society; and we are as a people inherently and historically opposed to secret societies, to secret oaths, and to secret proceedings.
        John F. Kennedy

      • http://donthaveone Beberoni

        Sorry, when he turned against the United States and took up residence with the enemy proclaiming death to the United States, he no longer was a citizen. Just as when a murderer decides to go on a rampage killing people, he should forfeit his rights as a human being, just as he forfeited the rights of life to those he killed.

      • Average Joe

        “Sorry, when he turned against the United States and took up residence with the enemy proclaiming death to the United States, he no longer was a citizen.”

        And you base this diatribe on what factual evidence? Answer: none.
        You have no more insight into this man or his life than anyone else here. All you have have are enuendos from the media nad the government…nothing more, nothing less. In other words, you have no factual proof that this man has done anything…other than to leave this country, return and then leave again…that is the whole of your knowlege on the matter. However, based on nothing more than heresay, you have convicted and passed judgement on someone without any shred of evidence to support your assessment. You get facts by actually having a trial and let all of the pariculars and evidence be heard…by all parties involved, it’s pretty hard to defend yourself against charges….when your dead…. and lets face it…the case always favors one party over the other….when there is nobody to dispute the chares. Hopefully you will never be asked to be a juror in any type of trial…you aren’t bright enough to understand the proccess…Watta Maroon!
        OK Pepperoni…open mouth….switch feet….

      • http://bellsouth.net Oakley Mann

        You Ho, yeah you, da ugly one, da one with the slobber coming out the sides of your mouth, yo Ho, you are real stupid looking,yeah you oh not Ho, Joe, you simple minded, stupid SOB, it is well apparent that you and your butt bud will never grow a brain that can be used for anything constructive so you long to taddle off other peoples thoughts and amuse yourselves with the 9/11 myths. You are one stupid and ugly sob with not a hope in this world if you cannot find someone to sponsor your ugly as*

      • libertytrain

        Oakley, was there a point to your post other than to demonstrate foolishness?

      • http://bellsouth.net Oakley Mann

        If you cannot figure it out, pick anything you choose, foolish if it works for you.

      • Average Joe

        Oakley Mann,
        I am guessing from your post that you want to be a fiction writer someday? Buy a copy yourself…so that you can sell at least one copy.
        I must ask, do you eat with that mouth?…..I only ask because it is apparent that you don’t think with that brain….it has other uses besides a hat rack ( I know, that’s scary huh?)….food for thought….BTW, in the future,, if you don’t want to look like a total idiot…you might try offering up a rebuttal to a post…rather than rambling on like a derranged lunatic….oh…I almost forgot….an empty head has no thought proccesses at all….My appologies (to actual thinking people).

      • libertytrain

        I did figure it out and it was foolish. Good luck with future posts.

      • http://?? Joe H.

        Average,
        you guys are missing the point! It doesn’t matter if he DID everything that he is accused of or not!!! Untill the man denounces his citizenship he is still a citizen and is afforded the same rights as you and me!! INNOCENT TILL PROVEN GUILTY!!! If a church group goes to the middle east and sets up a hospital for the normal citizen and unknowingly treats an enemy, are they, too the enemy?? Remember, in VietNam, there were Nuns that were forced to treat the Viet Cong and NVA, under threat of death, yet under YOUR train of thought, they could be called treasonists!!

      • Average Joe

        Joe H. ,
        I am not missing the point. Read all of my posts…I agree with you 100%. It’s all about following the Rule of Law…due process, as prescribed by our founding document. According to the 14th Amendment ( as interpreted now), he was born on US soil and is therefore a US citizen…with the same rights as every other US citizen. Obama, by ordering his execution (without providing due process) has not only violated his oath of office, but has also violated the law on numerous levels.

      • http://bellsouth.net Oakley Mann

        It is true that ignorant arrogance will surely throw me into a tirade, as it did with AJ’s post beginning with “YO Pepperoni Breath”. His righteousness is only proven to himself, and my rebuttal was what I wrote. It was written in bad temper even though I was not the pepperoni breath, but what was written on the whole was meant and is stood by. I could surely have found better statements to portray my frustration with the ignorance of AJ and his fool beliefs of 9/11 and indeed, his unwitting beliefs as a whole.

      • DaveH

        Beberoni,
        You need to do some serious reading before you put your foot in your mouth any further.
        You should try reading some of Thomas DiLorenzo’s books. Wake up to reality.
        Here’s a Free online book, well-documented, that turns Franklin’s excuse for entering World War II on it’s ear. Most notable is the vast number of liars who pulled strings to get us into World War II. The Chief Liar, of course, was Franklin D. Roosevelt:
        http://mises.org/books/pearl_harbor_greaves.pdf

      • http://donthaveone Beberoni

        I know Roosevelt was a liar, one of the biggest ones ever. But I also studied in years past, quite a bit about Hitler and the things his did, and the countries he decimated, and his hatred of Jews and black, and really, anything that wasnt a white anglo saxon protestant. Which I am one of, but Im not anything like that guy, nor will I ever be. I believe we all are created equal. I also do not believe in so many of the revisionist history books where people start coming out of no where and seek to make a name for themselves re-writing history the way they think it should be. Now I cant say anything about this guy you mentioned or this book, but I will read it. But you can bet when I do, I will investigate the author, to find out if there is an ax to grind or an agenda to further or what ever it is, because just because someone writes something, doesnt mean it is true. And it doesnt mean it isnt true. But I have read and watched hundreds upon hundreds of World War articles and books and programs, and pretty much, for me not to believe them, would mean that over a hundred people are liars and just wrote the same thing. That intrigues me.If they were all different I would wonder, but when again and again and again, from different people from different areas, and the stories all match, I find it hard to believe that many people would lie about the exact same story. Just plain interesting it is.

      • http://donthaveone Beberoni

        I just did some digging on Thomas DiLorenzo. Sorry, after finding out who he is and what he thinks and believes in, I wont waste my time reading his “opinions” that he presents as how it was. For one, you know, he was an Affiliated Scholar of the defunct “League of the South”, and yet he denies any lasting affilliation. Right. He also views the U.S. Constitution as a betrayal of the small government principles that the founding fathers laid out. He has Hamilton as evil big government, and Jefferson as little government, yet some of the things Jefferson said could be construd as the opposite. I find him a man of questionable truth, one of those who writes it as he sees it, which is fine, I mean we are all entitled to our opinions and I think that is a great thing. But its just that, his opinions. It doesnt mean its the truth, just because he says so. He obviously has an ax to grind with almost all the establishment. I dont care for guys like him. Read on the writings of man if you want to, but they may be right, or they may be wrong. Sometimes youll never know. You want some real meat, and want to read some real truth, start with the books of Matthew, Mark, Luke and John, then keep going. And dont forget to ask God to open your eyes and ears as you read, and maybe you might find what the truth is. We all need the truth Dave.

      • http://www.boblivingstonletter.com/ Bob Livingston

        Dear Beberoni,

        Your arrogance is off-putting and your ignorance is sometimes astounding. You are slandering Mr. DiLorenzo with falsehoods, mischaracterizations and outright lies. I have refuted this before. Perhaps you missed it. That Mr. DiLorenzo is a member of the “League of the South” is a Leftwing lie that I will not allow to stand. However, it baffles me that a group that sought to uphold Southern traditions and sought a smaller, less intrusive, less tyrannical government is automatically labeled an evil, racist organization. But I digress. The lie that DiLorenzo was ever affiliated with the LOS was fostered by the corrupt, anti-American Southern Poverty Law Center, or as I call them, the Southern Preposterous Lie Center, an organization to the left of Nancy Pelosi. I’m sure, based on your past comments, that you would not endorse much if any of what the SPLC stands for. DiLorenzo was never a member of the League of the South and the League of the South has nothing to do with the KKK or racism.

        Mr. DiLorenzo refutes this lie here:

        http://www.lewrockwell.com/dilorenzo/dilorenzo202.html

        You write: “He has Hamilton as evil big government, and Jefferson as little government, yet some of the things Jefferson said could be construd as the opposite.” Hamilton’s immediate goal as Secretary of Treasury was to establish a central bank. He espoused British mercantilism, which is essentially old-style crony capitalism. As to your comments about Jefferson and big government, please elaborate.

        Best wishes,
        Bob

      • DaveH

        How can you know what the truth is, Beberoni, without reading the books?
        Do you sit around in the “see no evil”, “hear no evil”, “speak no evil” position all day?
        Things that you don’t want to believe scare you don’t they, Beberoni?
        I don’t blame you for that. I do blame you for not resisting that vain urge.

      • DaveH

        And I hate to break this to you, Beberoni, but the writings you put your faith in were all written by men.
        Please don’t tell me I haven’t experienced them, because I have. I was indoctrinated in Catholic schools for 10 years of my life. Been there, done that. Now why don’t you try something novel — lift those intentional blinders. See the real light.

      • http://donthaveone Beberoni

        Sorry Dave, I may read things time to time that may not be true, and when I read them from three sources, I figure they just might be true. But regardless of that, I am human and I may make mistakes, but I know that. But I also dont share your fear and paranoia of the government. No, I do not like their size, and I do not like how they have grown, and keep growing, and us tax payers have to keep ponying up more and more to carry their worthless butts. But I am not afraid of them, as they have no hold on me, nor will they ever. I do know the truth, and they are not in control, nor will they ever be in control. God is in control of things, and believe me, all things will come to pass in His time, not ours. And Im sorry your Catholic upbringing has soured you to seeing the light. Having grown up in a predominate Catholic area, and being only one of a handful of kids in the area that wasnt raised Catholic, evidently your experience is repeated quite a bit, as only one of these many, many kids still goes to church, and that is only because his wife makes him. Thats pretty sad. Jesus Christ is my Lord, Dave, not the Pope. Big difference.

      • Mark Are

        Yea, sure, 19 Arabs with box cutters under the leadership of a guy on kidney dialysis living a cave in Afghanistan running an attack on a laptop computer got the most advanced military to stand down while they flew jets around for 2 hours before crashing them into 75% of their intended targets, causing three steel and concrete sky rises to turn into DUST after jet fuel burned in TWO of them for a hour. Sure the PSYCHOPATHS aren’t in control are they? YOU BELIEVE THIS CRAP?

      • http://?? Joe H.

        mark are,
        suggest you look into the melting point of steel and the ignition point and burning temp of magnesium. ALL commercial aircraft are constructed of a magnesium alloy and parts like the wheels and other solid parts are almost pure magnesium!!

      • DaveH
      • http://?? Joe H.

        DaveH,
        i repeat what I said to look into AND say to look into the comments in your own evidence! teel will melt, actually it will almost BURN at the temp that Magnesium burns!! Magnesium will ignite at the burn temp of JP4 fuel which is less refined than the standard JP7 used in commercial jets. As far as the 100 combat missions of the pilot in your piece, I have about 80 myself and I don’t see where that bit makes any difference. And yes, mine were in aircraft, as well.

      • Average Joe

        Mark,
        Sadly, people like these idiots who approve of this kind of execution…don’t need any facts or proof of wrong doing, because they heard it on the news or someone of importance said so.
        They don’t base their beliefs or morals on fact or reality…..they base everything on heartstrings or assumptions.
        As long as they assume something…then it must be true, if they feel it to be true…then it must be true.
        These people are very the people that all governments love as citizens…they are sheep and are willing to excuse the government for nearly any deed committed by the government…until it involves them or their loved ones directly….other than that…we are all fair game for any atrocities that the government wishes to carry out. Welcome to Amerika…land of the self centered and home of the blindly following…. lemmings.
        The rule of law matters…without it, we have no law…period. We become subject to the governments’…”rule of the moment”…which may change on a whim. The government must be held to the rule of law just as any man, woman or child is held to the rule. No one is above the law.

        No statement should be believed because it is made by an authority.
        Robert A. Heinlein

        When any government, or any church for that matter, undertakes to say to its subjects, This you may not read, this you must not see, this you are forbidden to know, the end result is tyranny and oppression no matter how holy the motives.
        Robert A. Heinlein

      • Mark Are

        Average Joe, I hope you live near me because I’ll be glad to have you by my side while I watch your back when the day comes that we can take out these PSYCHOPATHIC NUTCASES running our country and world. It’s time for some NORMAL people to run the show for a while.

      • Average Joe

        I am in central Florida, but am willing to go wherever needed to defend my country, the Constitution and the rule of law.
        For God and Country!

        An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life.
        Robert A. Heinlein

        I am free, no matter what rules surround me. If I find them tolerable, I tolerate them; if I find them too obnoxious, I break them. I am free because I know that I alone am morally responsible for everything I do.
        Robert A. Heinlein

      • Bear

        This is for Average Joe. I think Arizona could use a little help along the border. Are you up for the trip?

      • Average Joe

        I sure am…or should I worry about being branded a “terrorist” for standing up for my country…and the rule of law? Are you up for it…or just a rabble rowser….that doen’t dirty his hands by actually getting involved? The ball is in your court now……play or sit on the sidelines…your choice.

      • DaveH

        Arizona was the last contiguous state to join the Union, in 1912. Just a year before the Federal Reserve was created, and the 16th Amendment and 17th amendments were passed. All three created to hugely aid the Federal Government in their Unconstitutional power grabs from the states. What was Arizona thinking?
        I’m hoping we will be the first to secede.

    • James

      Sam B, The Fifth Amendment reads: “No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury…” However much al-Awlaki hated America doesn’t qualify for an ‘infamous crime.’

    • Abe

      The issue is not that Awlaki was killed – he deserved to be, the issue is that he was killed wihout due process.

      It is the precedent that this sets that is concerning. Slowly the government could and probably will encroach and follow the same approach on civilians and anyone they think are a threat. Anyone could be next.

      • Bear

        Abe, so were the people in the Twin Towers, the sailors on the Cole, the people in every car bombing and on every train station bombing and in evry unwarranted attack by evry Muslim jihadist for over 50 years. None of these people who were murdered by Muslims had any due process. So, what goes around, comes around. I really don’t care who took out al-Awlaki or how they did it. The act will ultimately save many American and foreign lives.

      • DaveH

        By encouraging more people to hate us, and impoverishing our country?
        Ironically, the USSR’s involvement in Afghanistan was largely responsible for the final impoverishment of their country which led to their breakup.
        Every Empire in the history of man has ended because their Leaders bit off too much to chew. Do we have to ignorantly follow them?

  • bob wire

    I understand where you are coming from Chip,~ Mayberry was a wonderful little town to grow up in. Where children could chase Fire Fly’s will past dark and every grown-up wore a father or mother hat and would tell on your a$$.

    But we grew up naive, The position of Commander & Chief might be a little different then the “Godfather” but not much, who lives, who died, who stand in harms way and who meets the threat is part of the job description.

    At anytime it’s so grizzly, that it’s hidden from view, glossed over with pompous ceremony and pageantry as we attempt to maintain an image of righteousness.

    • Mark Are

      Well, let’s just confer him with the title KING. And tell him to do whatever the EFF he wants! GAG ME WITH A PLACE SETTING!

    • bob wire

      I can’t help but believe your focus in rather narrow. Big decisions are an everyday occurrence for the first chair position and go without much notice or fanfare in most cases. Somebody gets caught at the wrong place at the wrong time, in the company of the wrong people and they are “neutralized” rendered non-revelation. It comes as a go, no go command rendered from the 1st chair position.

      It not that difficult to get caught in the “Bite” of things much larger then yourself. A single person is but a little grease under the skids of world society. It’s not that hard to find yourself “compromised” especially if you are an active “player”in events or just trying to be.

      “O” doesn’t owe anyone an apology. 43′s administration thought it easier to subject 100′s of people caught in the “bite” to cruel and unusual punishment rather then physically chase one ugly 6foot Arab down. It was an administrative decision. 43 himself, said it “DIDN”T MATTER” where Osama was, that his network had been naturalized and no longer a threat. Personally, I was incensed by such a statement but I must have been in the minority.

      “44″ told us his first day on the job, that it did matter and his first order of business was to capture or kill Osama.

      The difference in the two Administrations focus clear enough to me.

      Every sitting President carries this burden of making big decisions that effect peoples lives the world over and not just here in the US.

      • James

        Bob w. While the President is Commander-in-Chief of our armed forces, he has no power to use that force however he wants. The power to Declare War was vested in Congress (Art. I, Sec. 8 Cl. 11), without authorization from Congress, the President is powerless to deploy our armed forces. The only exception to that is if the United States, its possessions or territories or armed forces are under attack.

      • bob wire

        James, you don’t really believe the more powerful single man in the world can’t get around such a small obstacle? I’m sure you have heard of Ollie North or Black opts or Air America or the CIA or mercenaries or loose canons or wild cards or Israel or Crazy Turks or inner circle?

        Rules and laws are for you and me. You are coming at me like Jimmy Carter might. “Can they do that?!!!”

      • James

        Bob wire, I wouldn’t view Obamaa’s action as getting around the Constitution, he just ignored it. For example President Obama bombed Libya with no authority whatever from Congress. He usurped the constitutional power of Congress to declare war, and only a few congressmen complained. That’s the scary part.

  • Granny

    HORSE PUCKEY!!! This misguided fool abandoned his COUNTRY and plotted murderously against it! To be born in America [United States] is a privilege, and this killer abandoned his rights as a US Citizen when he joined Al Quaida and became a terrorist against the USA; thus, he forfeited his right to a trial….

    • Johnny Hiott

      The most important aspect of the killing of this Alwaki or whatever his name was is NOT his guilt or innocence. It is the fact that OUR government condoned murder. In the name of anything murder is murder. Anyone in this nation that believes that these government sponsored killings will ONLY be in foreign nations had better think twice. If OUR government will condone this killing they will condone the killings of Americans here too ! America now has the most corrupt government in the world and will not hesitate to murder ANY citizen that opposes them. You can take that to the bank as it’s worth a lot more than the dollars you have in your pockets !

      • JohnK.

        Cut the “grandstanding”. Our country is hardly the most corrupt. I mean come on!!

      • Bear

        JohnK, I have to agree with you on this one. Our close neighbor, Mexico, is far worse. Particularly when they know you are a tourista. Everyone from the Federal police right down to the State and local police are on the take. If you keep up with the news, you will know that most of the cartel leaders are former military and police. Ever been to Italy? There’s another country where corruption runs rampant. The one thing that really stands out about America though is that we still have guns and could do something about it whereas those other countries have an unarmed citizenry. Does that make us complacent cowards or just super tollerant citizens?

      • http://?? Joe H.

        Bear,
        you want corrupt?? look no farther than Panama SA!!! From Torreos to present day, it doesn’t matter WHO runs the government, it is CORRUPT!!! Live there as a collector and find an old holster from one of the former regeims! Casa Modello and the Island are very bad places to visit let alone be locked upin!!!

      • Robert Smith

        Johnny says: ” It is the fact that OUR government condoned murder.

        Actually it wasn’t “murder.” A self proclaimed enemy combatant was killed. It’s that simple.

        Rob

      • Average Joe

        Robert Smith,

        I believe it is YOU that is being….”SIMPLE” minded.

        Enuff said!

      • http://donthaveone Beberoni

        How about that Robert, you and I agree. Good call.

      • professor

        The fact that you think the government is murdering people, in this country, has nothing to do with Awlaki. They will do whatever they want, until they are stopped. Whether this cretin had a trial or not would have made no difference. And, I condone this death…not that anyone asked my opinion, nor yours. He declared war on all of us, and got his just reward. Maybe these terrorist will finally recognize the fact that, they will be hunted, if they make war against our country.

      • professor

        Murder? This is war….these people want to kill Americans, and this cretin was a high-profile enemy.

      • Average Joe

        “This is war”

        Really? Can you please tell me when we last “declared” war?Go ahead, I patiently await your reply…this ought to be good.

    • Mark in LA

      Then pass a constitutional amendment allowing trials in absentia for specific terrorist acts when the subject flees the country. But what he did has to come out in a public trial so people can be sure he just didn’t pick his nose at a White House dinner.

      • Jeep

        Mark, you do not need “a constitutional amendment”. Due Process can occur in abstentia. That Al-wacko was denied due process is a disturbing development in our course as a nation. We have throughout our history caught, tried, convicted and executed many traitors and fomentors of sedition. But, all were given due process. That is until Al-wacko…

      • Brenda Choate

        While you muddle the picture with due process, check out the current trial of the underwear bomber. Jury selection was hampered by those who were afraid of the reperrcusssions of being on the jury and others felt they could not give him a fair hearing.

      • James

        I agree. I don’t believe we should rely on the President to decide who deserves to be killed.

      • Robert Smith

        He wasn’t “killed.” It was a suicide when he proclaimed himself to be part of an army attacking America. It’s that simple.

        Look at his own words.

        Rob

      • http://donthaveone Beberoni

        He made a bed he had to sleep in, its that simple. If one is not willing to sleep in a certain bed, then dont prepare it.

      • James

        Al-Awlaki and friends were blown to bit by a missile, and that’s suicide? By that definition, the crazy shooter in Arizona, if shot 200-300 times by irate citizens was also suicidal?

    • Mark Are

      So maybe you can tell me how you know all these things. Are you PSYCHIC or PSYCHOPATHIC? I’d most likely guess the latter. WHY? Because you have no IDEA what you are reading is true because HE WAS NOT GIVEN A TRIAL. NO EVIDENCE WAS PERMITTED TO BE EXPOSED. YOU are a TOOL of the PSYCHOPATHS THAT RUN this world.

    • http://donthaveone Beberoni

      You are right. When he decided to become our enemy and plot with those to destroy us, his protection of the US Constitution became null and void. People seem to think the Constitution protects those that want us dead, but it is for us Americans, not those trying to kill us. They are not under its protection.

      • Bear

        How simple can it be to understand this concept. If you love America and want to live here and be productive, you are welcome. If you hate America nad want to kill Americans, you are not welcome here and you have none of the rights we share or might be granted by our laws or our Constitution.

    • Jibbs

      Granny says:
      October 7, 2011 at 7:26 am
      HORSE PUCKEY!!! This misguided fool abandoned his COUNTRY and plotted murderously against it! To be born in America [United States] is a privilege, and this killer abandoned his rights as a US Citizen when he joined Al Quaida and became a terrorist against the USA; thus, he forfeited his right to a trial
      ———————————————————————-
      But it’s o.k. to bring terrorists from Gitmo to New York because they have rights? What about the fact that I keep hearing that illegals have rights too?

      When their agenda is complete, they will come for you too.
      Be careful what you wish for.

    • http://DoULoveJesus.Wordpress.com Mark Dabney

      If what you were saying had merit – what would be the harm in having him indicted by the Justice Dept? I have yet to see any actual evidence that Bin Laden carried out 9/11 – although I have lawfully demanded it – and Phil Gingrey has by default already admitted there actually is no evidence that he did it.

      • DaveH

        No lies that our Government tells would surprise me. We as citizens have blindly accepted whatever excuses they have offered for their immoral and unlawful behavior for a very long time.
        Some examples of lies told by various Imperialistic Governments (including ours) throughout modern history:
        http://joecrubaugh.com/blog/2007/01/18/10-false-flags-that-changed-the-world/
        Be sure to follow all the links in this fascinating series.

      • DaveH

        One of the false flag techniques I’ve seen used on this board by unscrupulous Liberals. From the above article:
        “Yet another type of false flag activity consists of infiltrating the opposition, then making easily disproved claims which will embarrass and undermine the credibility of the organization”

      • JeffH

        …not to mention posting with another posters name…

  • Alan Lopez

    Good article I’m inclined to side with Chip,thisn isn’t the U.S. I grew up in .I want my country back !

    • professor

      The country we grew up in, was a strong nation that knew how to fight and win wars! The enemy wasn’t drooled over and coddled. They were quickly and unceremoniously dispatched. And, no one had a difficult time deciding who was the enemy…

      We need to return to the days were men were men, and women were women.
      Our people had strength of conviction, believed in God, and were patriotic. They did not wail over the rights of criminals or the death of a terrorist, or the execution of anyone that committed treason. Right was right, and wrong was wrong, and no one had a problem telling the two apart…..

      • http://?? Joe H.

        professor,
        Unless you are about 75, then you grew up during either Korea, which was a tie or during Viet Nam which was my war and the most screwed up piece of government intervention during a war that ever exhhisted!!! let’s see, the war is ON today but tommorrow is Christmas so we’ll turn the switch off and the war will be off for awhile!! Meanwhile Victor Charlie came in, resupplied, rearmed, remanned and killed AMERICANS!!! so don’t give me your Bull$hit about how the America you grew up in knew how to fight wars and how to dispatch the enemy!!

  • Denis F

    He got what he deserved-this politically correct B.S. needs to stop. They called Bush a “cowboy”-well, we need to be cowboys again and take our country back from the enemy or we won’t have a country. We will be subservient to the people who come in here and take over. Nuff sed!

    • Mark Are

      Do you also march around the neighborhood with a dark brown nose and a red swastika arm band on your sleeve? Just curious. So let’s see, if this can become “normal” commonplace behavior by those PSYCHOPATHS that run the country, why, explain to me can’t it trickle down to someone like Chip? Why can’t the President say, Chip is a threat to national security. He exercises his typing skills too much and people are talking about insurrection due to his writings. Send a HELLFIRE to take care of the problem. SCREW the law, SCREW the Constitution, SCREW common decency. KILL CHIP. People like you make me want to puke.

      • Robert Smith

        Mark asks: “Why can’t the President say, Chip is a threat to national security.”

        Well let’s see… If he advocates an armed overthrow of our government, or if it is clear that he is inspiring such… But oh wait!

        Many on this very forum have dared the government to come get them for their actions against America and threaten to meet them with violence. What is the cost for inspiring that?

        Hey, if it looks like a duck, quacks, has a bill, and waddles maybe in fact it is clearly duck and against America whd what she stands for.

        Just how many around here have advocated that Obama meed a harsh ending?

        Rob

      • professor

        Robert, I agree. A lot of these people are trying to compare, “apples to oranges.” I can’t be done.

        This cretin, Awlaki, was not, sitting in his American house, with his American family, going to an America church on Sundays. He was not helping his American neighbor build a new deck, or picking up his American daughter from school He was not sitting at home in his pjs, posting his displeasure, about the government, on a Conservative blog!
        Reasonable people can see the difference.

        And, I don’t think that any people, commenting here, have taken, “action against the government” that could be considered, “treason.”

        Most of what we hear is the venting of frustrations. Americans have seen better days and we want to keep what we have been so fortunate to have had, at our finger tips. Many of us have known a true and free America. It makes us angry, and makes us feel helpless, to see it being taken from us, with no support from our elected representatives in Washington.

        Even so, all this does not equate to the treasonous crimes that Awlaki was committing in the Middle East. There is no comparison.

      • Jibbs

        There is no such thing as an American church.

      • FreedomFighter

        OMG I agree with Mark – just this one time.

        Here is how they will find you and control your life:

        —–
        Biometrics expert, Mark Lerner discusses
        here the reasons why the international biometric
        system of identification and control should be
        rejected and dismantled.

        Video:

        http://www.forbiddenknowledgetv.com/page/5210.html

        - Alexandra

        P.S. Please share Forbidden Knowledge TV e-mails
        and videos with your friends and colleagues.
        —–

        Laus Deo
        Semper Fi

    • http://donthaveone Beberoni

      I agree with you Denis. No doubt. Im sick of the political correctness in this country, where we are told to apologize for being Christian and for dumping billions of dollars into countries around the world taking care of them and their people. No other country comes to the aid of other countries like we do. And see what happens if the muslims rise up and tell China that they are going to kill them and wipe them off the face of the earth, then start bombing Beijing and places. I think China would start turning these terrorists countries into big sheets of glass. Yet we let them kill us and bomb us, and do nothing, until Bush came along. Then he was labeled a war monger by the left wing liberals and the left wing liberal press. Now that it is election time, Obama wants to make sure he gets in the press that he is after these terrorists. Its all publicity for him and the lefties, thats all it is. But I support them taking out these guys, because these guys want us dead, and they wont quit until we are dead or they are dead, and they have professed this over and over in every possible way. The whole tenant of their religion is kill anyone that doesnt think like they do. Its a fact. And the sooner we recognize them as a threat, and quit acting like Saudi Arabia and place like that are our friend, which they are not, the better off we will be. I dont like war, and I dont like killing. But we live in a world full of it, and when someone has vowed death to you, and exhibited that they will even blow themselves up to kill you, I fully assure you, you dont sit down diplomatically with them and discuss things. They do not understand that language, not at all. They wasted 13 years diplomatically dealing with Saddam Hussein, for what? So that he could kill a few hundred thousand more of his own people? The left would have you believe that Iraq was better off with him in charge, and they often like to cite the number of deaths this war has caused. But the deaths Saddam caused was and is still greater than the war’s death count. I too Denis am sick of people wanting to sit down and have a glass of wine with these guys, and all the talk of tolerance, tolerance, tolerance, when they wont tolerate Christians spreading the word in their country without killing them. I agree with you Denis, 100 percent.

      • DaveH

        How many American citizens were killed by Muslims in our country? How many Muslims were killed by our Military in Afghanistan, Iraq, and now Libya?
        Isn’t one of your Ten Commandments “Thou shalt not Kill”? Was that qualified somewhere that I missed?
        There is only one valid reason to kill another man without due process, and that is self-defense. Did anybody in Iraq attack our country? Did anybody in Libya attack our country? In fact the attackers of our country on 9/11 came mostly from Saudi Arabia. Did we seek retribution from Saudi Arabia?
        Someday, Beberoni, those missiles might be coming at you. The rah-rah sheeple will someday reap what they sow. May God have mercy on your souls.

      • JohnK.

        Daveh – The commandment from The Bible you mention is, “Thou shall not murder”. Kill and murder have different meanings.

      • DaveH

        You’re playing word games, John. But I’ll show you mine. Show me yours:
        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ten_Commandments

      • http://donthaveone Beberoni

        Gee Dave, I know they found training grounds for these guys in Iraq. And yes, they were supposedly all Saudi’s, I dont hold the tall tale that Saudi Arabia is our friend either. I guarantee you Libya isnt either, and that if Iran, Iraq, Syria, Saudi Arabia, Libya and a few others that you so defend, had the ways and means, they would kill you as fast as they would me. And yes, the Bible says “Thou shalt not commit murder”. But let me explain something, that I think as an adult and an educated man, you already know. That when you are under legal authority, and you are in the military, and you have an enemy trying to kill you, yes it is ok to kill them. Did you ever read the Bible Dave? There are so many times, that after Israel was disobediant and God handed them over to their enemies, that a remnant remained true to Him, and He would hear their cries, and He would send them a leader for them to rise up, and God Himself would give people like Gideon and David and Solomon and others, the direct command, to attack the enemy camp, and they were ordered to kill everyone. Man, woman, child, even the animals. Everything. And man not listening is exactly why we are in the position we are in today. You see, Solomon, the wisest man in the world, decided he knew better than God, and he kept a few of these foreign women for himself, and placed them in his harem. He also allowed them to keep their false idols and false gods. Had this not happened, we would not be the morbid enemy of the Islamic religion, for they spawned out of that, as God’s chosen people was, and still is, the Jews. And to this day, Israel is constantly attacked, provoked and persecuted, because they remain in large, disobediant to God in not accepting Jesus Christ. Thats just how it is. And I am against war Dave, and I despise killing and hatred and the things war brings. But I also live in a very, very real world right now, and to stick my head in the sand, and act like there is nothing going on, while our enemies build and build and build and get organized to take us out, would be highly irresponsible of me. They have vowed to kill us Dave, in many, many ways, over and over again. And they kill their own selves to do it, and have stated that they will continue to do this to the last man. Do you not understand this? Do you really think if we just walk away from the middle east, that all will be peaceful? If so, I under estimated your intelligence, as I thought you to be a lot smarter than that. But then again, if you dont know God, you have no idea of what is going on right now. Its not a battle of flesh as it appears Dave. It’s a spiritual battle for souls, and thats all it is. And God gives us the free will, for me to accept Him, and for you to say He doesnt exist. He isnt going to force Himself on you, or me. But Satan does. Yeah buddy. You ever heard anyone say that sinning isnt fun? Ever think about that? Why do you suppose that is? Satan couldnt get anyone to play if it wasnt fun now, would he? No sir. But all these things must happen, and also, keep in mind, all these things will come to pass. But until then, I dont believe for a minute God wants me to stick my head in the sand, and let my enemies build up and build up until they are powerful enough to come take me out, as I believe He would want me to stand up and be counted. Sorry, I wont be no pacifist. That is a road to sure defeat. Have a good day sir.

      • DaveH

        I don’t expect you to be a pacifist, Beberoni. I expect you to follow the moral codes of your religious teachings. You aren’t.

      • professor

        Good post, Beberoni!

        Anyone should be able to comprehend what you wrote..and how it applies to the killing of our enemies.

      • DaveH

        It’s a good post only in the sense that it is an excellent example of how religious people can cloak immoral behavior in the name of God. If he really existed, I don’t think he’d approve of people using his name in vain.

      • http://donthaveone Beberoni

        Sorry Dave, but its not immoral to kill someone who is trying to kill you. Its called preservation of life. God gave me this life, and He told me to value it, as my body is His temple. To lie down and be a door mat is not what He would have me to do. You do not believe in God, and therefore you do not know God. I have an intimate relationship with Him, where His Holy Spirit dwells within me, and tells me what is right and wrong. Sometimes I am a stupid human and dont listen, but sometimes He speaks so clearly there is no doubt. And when it comes to terrorists like this, there is no doubt, they want you dead, me dead, Bush dead, Obama dead. Its doesnt matter to them. If you dont believe what they believe, your only worthy of death. You want me to respect that and tolerate that, its not going to happen. And if you know God, you would know, He does not want us to lay down and be a doormat, and wait for Him to do everything. He wants us to be pro-active, and do the right thing. In fact, you may not understand this, or again, you might think this isnt practicing “religion” as you say, which by the way is a dirty word to me, but if our country raised up and became all God fearing, Jesus Christ raising me, God would send us forth and have us eliminate those who oppose Him off the face of the earth, just as he did in many, many of the Biblical wars. And like I said, we have gotten to where we are now, because man didnt listen and allowed these false “religions” to remain, and they multiplied, and now are again a threat to God’s people, and we have failed as a people to rise up in the name of Jesus Christ and have God’s blessing to stop them. But there will come a time Dave, rest assure, when God Himself will come, and he will deal with all those who oppose Him and dont believe in Him, and will also deal with those like me who do claim Him. We will all give Him an account of ourselves. So I take my peace in that, as I have no fear of that meeting, for He is my Father.

      • Robert Smith

        From Beberoni: “The whole tenant of their religion is kill anyone that doesnt think like they do. Its a fact.”

        Have you read the “Maleius Malificarum” lately? It hasn’t been disavoud by christians yet.

        Will you condemn it Bereroni?

        Rob

      • http://donthaveone Beberoni

        I do not know what that is, but I assure you , it doesnt apply to me or to anyone who has accepted Jesus Christ as their Saviour. The document that applies to us sir, is the Gospel of Jesus Christ, which most know as the New Testament in the Holy Bible. And sir, you seem to forget, there was a dark, dark time, referred to as the dark ages, when so called Christians went amuck, and did Satan’s bidding for him. But the Christian church went through a reformation, by those who truly followed Jesus Christ, and if you follow Jesus Christ, and even some that dont, can tell you how wrong those people were. But the muslims are still living in the dark ages, and have never undergone any kind of reformation, and they kill each other ten times as much as we have killed any of them. They are a religion of hate. Put it this way Robert. I, and many others like me, who proclaim Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior, pray daily, and I mean every day pal, for the souls of the muslim people to find Jesus Christ in their lives, and to come into the light so they can see. Do you think, and I want you to seriously think about this, do you actually think muslims pray for good things to come to us Christians, like we do for them? Do you? I rest my case.

      • Song

        Not only would any Christian condemn Malleus Maleficarum but so did the Catholic Church DURING the inquisition moron. And you expect ANYONE to take you seriously Robert S.???

      • Kinetic1

        Beberoni,
        Most of the country, liberals included were behind Bush when he wanted to go after Bin Laden. Shoot, the whole world was behind him! Where we criticized him was him determination to invade Iraq because Sadam “might” attack us. You can’t just puff up your chest, brag about being a “war President” and then invade any country you want because you have a suspicion that they “might” attack us. That is the very definition of a “war monger”.

      • http://donthaveone Beberoni

        Well gee, it seems there were 13 years of U.N. resolutions he didnt pay any attention to. Then, do you even remember, when Clinton was president, the UN inspectors went in there, and came back with page after page of Weapons of Mass Destruction that he was accumulating. Remember those? Gee, where did they all go. And if you seriously did not think, that left unchecked, Saddam Hussein would have taken over the whole Middle East, then ventured into other areas, and eventually to our shores, your absolutely nuts. Have you ever heard of a guy named Hitler? No one did anything, but they knew he was building up a machine, and pretty soon, the dude devastated almost all of Europe. You think that was ok? You dont think if we left him go, that his designs wouldnt have been on us. And you dont think its right that if you have the might, to help others? Sorry, if you do, you are wrong. Its like if I see an older kid picking on a little kid, Ive got the power to stop it, and I intervene, because its the right thing to do. Now that kid might say, “stay out of it , its none of your business”. But I beg to differ, as Im not going to stand there and watch him beat up the little kid. That would be wrong. The right thing would to intervene and stop the bully. Saddam Hussein was a big bully, who killed hundreds of thousands of his own people. He got what he deserved. You know the golden rule, do unto others and you would have others do unto you, and that it is straight out of the Bible. Where there is another part pretty similar, called you reap what you sow. Saddam reaped what he sowed. He got what he deserved. And any of you, I dont care who you are, rich, poor, black, white, atheist or Christian, you are not going to tell me convincingly that it wasnt the right thing to do to take this man out, and free a country of millions. Why some like to point the fingers and say “look how many people Bush killed”, I say look at the millions that have been freed. And some call them innocent people. Really? They are raising arms against you, when you are trying to make things better for them. Seems to me that those who got out of the way and wanted us there, are now living much fuller and free lives. Thats what I see. It was a good thing. And yes, it is about time to come home from there, once me make sure that they can fend for themselves and not fall to the first Islamic terrorist organization that tries to take them down.

      • http://bellsouth.net Oakley Mann

        Beberoni, really great points and education for the blind

      • Kinetic1

        Beberoni,
        Yes, Sadam did have the potential to cause trouble, as he did during the first Bush Presidency. As you may recall we had little trouble sending his troops packing. Now, had there been any evidence that he was ready for another go at it, if the U.N. inspectors had found ANY evidence of the weapons you speak of, if there was any REAL threat then the Bush administration might have been justified in taking the actions they did, but there wasn’t any imminent threat.

        As for those who were “freed”, take another look. The country is in a shambles, the wealthy have taken advantage of the situation and filled their pockets full of our aid, and the average person is now facing terrorist action that didn’t exist before. We’ve spent trillions of dollars and wasted the lives of thousands of our soldiers (not t mention the scores of Iraqi citizens) just to destabilize a nation.

      • http://donthaveone Beberoni

        Kinetic 1, you make good points, in a rational adult way with me and I appreciate that, but on this we will have to agree to disagree. You think Saddam was never a threat, and I think he was a great threat, if left unchecked. Maybe Im right, maybe Im wrong. But I do know this. Tens of thousands of his own people were killed by him, and millions of them are now free to live a better life. If they choose to stand up united as a people for freedom, and stay united and dont splinter into all those different muslim groups that seem to just want to kill each other, they will continue to have freedom. Its when one group gets greedy and decides to use their force to get what they want that the trouble remains. But I know for a fact, that removing Saddam Hussein has allowed them a chance to be free, a chance they never had while he was around.

      • professor

        Beberoni, you are right.

        If we don’t kill them, they will kill us! That is the way it is and always has been. These people are barbarians, living as they have lived a thousand years ago, and are still following the teachings of islam. They are about, “conquest and retribution!”

        As soon as American learn that, the sooner we might be able to save our country. Stop all the coddling. That only makes them perceive us as “weak and stupid.” And, sometimes I agree with them..

    • Jibbs

      What will you do when they come for you?, You say that you didn’t do anything, well, their here for you.

      • eddie47d

        There was a situation 3 days ago where a Papa John’s Pizza delivery person went up to a house and smelled marijuana.He promptly called police and the authorities came to the house and arrested the man.You never know who is willing to turn you in over a simple issue like marijuana smoke.The manager at Papa John’s praised the driver. Yes indeed, “who will come for you”.

      • Robert Smith

        Hi eddie,

        There is “the rest of the story” to follow up.

        The pot smoker was a LEGAL patient in a state where such is legal.

        Check out: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/10/04/pizza-delivery-driver-calls-cops-marijuana_n_994286.html

        Just another reason that the drug laws are a war on Americans and should be repealed and many recreational drugs should be treated like alcohol.

        IOW, don’t drive under the influence and don’t give ‘em to kids. Otherwise it’s should be a personal freedom.

        Now, who wants do deny a personal freedom on this forum?

        Rob

      • Cawmun Cents

        Thats what you get for eating Papa Johns pizza.
        Get the take home from Papa Murphys.Cook it yourself..avoid the narcoids.
        -CC.

      • JeffH

        :)

      • http://donthaveone Beberoni

        Thats funny, but true. If your doing something that is either illegal, or could be construed as illegal, or could get you into trouble, there are one of two things to do. One, dont do it if it can get you in trouble, or two, be smart enough that what ever your doing that you shouldnt be doing, that know one knows about it. Its not that hard.

      • Clint

        Beberoni, Which laws are you suggesting that we should follow? You seem to be rather religious, is there a passage in the bible condemning marijuana? Personal choices that don’t effect others should not be illegal. Encouraging ignorant people to spy on fellow citizens has a ring of Nazism doesn’t it? Or are you the type of do-gooder who calls the police if you see someone driving his vehicle without a seatbelt on? Religion is very important and I agree with you on that, but, just because some bureaucrats get lobbied to create more laws to restrict personal libertys is not a reason to abide or become a snitch. Have you heard about the bible study group getting fined for having gatherings in their home in San Juan Capistrano,CA?

      • http://?? Joe H.

        I haven’t called them for something as inane as no seatbelt, but I have called them for a guy so damn drunk that he was all over the road and there was a chance that he could kill someone! I have also called them for a little two year old left in a car on a 98* day!! Probably saved the kids life! He was in there with the windows just cracked for 45 minutes before I called! Like it or not, there ARE times to get involved!!

      • http://donthaveone Beberoni

        Clint. For one, religion is a dirty word to me. The Pharisee’s in the bible were religious. They gave the appearance of being all good and above others, but really, they were the biggest hypocritical sinners around. Thats what religion gets one. I am a Christian. Jesus Christ came and died on the cross for me, that I might overcome the sin I am born into since the fall of man, and only by His name can I be saved. And yes, I am still a sinner. I am still a stupid human being, flawed in many, many ways. I open my mouth and things come out sometimes that shouldnt, but they do. My eyes roam and sometimes admire things they shouldnt, but Im human and a man. A fallen man. But as for laws Clint, I have to see them like this. My Bible tells me that “all authority on earth is placed here by God, therefore abide in it” So if the law says smoking pot is illegal, then its like this. If you want to smoke it, smoke it. But if you get caught, be prepared to face the illegality of it. Just like if you want to have a few beers, then have them. But if you drive your car, and you get pulled over, and you blow over the limit, be prepared to face the penalty for it. So no, Im not saying its right or its wrong. Clint, I smoked dope for 25 years before I became a Christian. And really, Id like to smoke it now, but for 2 reasons I cant. One, its against the law, and personally, I feel compelled to obey the law, because Im not prepared to pay the penalty for breaking it should I get caught. And for two, I have a CDL license, which I currently dont use and may never use again, but I am keeping it incase I ever need am in need of another job, it will get me one. And as a result of having one, I am in a federal program where I am randomly tested for drugs and alcohol. We call it the piss test lottery, and Ive won it 9 times over the last 7 years. My job is more important than getting high, so I have made a choice to leave it alone. But I know many that smoke it, and truthfully, everyone knows alcohol is much more damaging, both physically, emotionally and spiritually than pot will ever be. No I would never go tell on anyone for stuff like this, because this is their choice, and their right to do or not to do, and it is they, not I, if things go wrong, that have to pay the tab, and that is the risk you take when you break the law. It may not be right, and we may not like it, but the law is the law. I personally find it atrocious that a person actually goes to jail longer for selling pot than most do for child molesting or even murder. Its sad and its rediculous, but like I said before. One knows the law is there, and if you choose to disregard it, you need to be prepared to pay the price if you get caught. Thats all Im saying.

    • bp

      Then we should not let any Muslims in; but once American, there is the right to due process, or WE ALL lose it. Good article, Chip.

    • Lee Baldwin

      Cowboy Up, America!! Denis F is absolutely correct. We ALL need to become COWBOYS again. EEE HA!!!

      • http://donthaveone Beberoni

        Thats right, we havent played Cowboys and (insert whatever) yet.

      • Average Joe

        Beberoni,
        “(insert whatever)”

        We can’t…your head is in the way…remove it and we can oblige you….will a 4″x4″x12′ do the trick for you?

      • http://donthaveone Beberoni

        Wow Joe, what a man you are.

    • professor

      Denis is right..

      Where are the real Americans, Cowboys, that have the guts to see an enemy dispatched, on the battlefield. Yes, gang, Awlaki was on the battlefield, in the robes of our enemy.. He was a prominent figure on the evening news. Reports of his treasonous acts were heard regularly. He was responsible for the deaths of American soldiers.

      Why the shedding of alligator tears for a cretin that was giving aid and support to the enemy, while we are at war..

      • http://?? Joe H.

        professor(?),
        So anyone wearing the clothes of a muslim is an enemy??? Seems to me that Jesus wore those robes, himself!! I have friends here that came from India and wear turbans and dress up in robes for church, known them for probably 25 years, my kid taught theirs to read. They the enemy as well??? you need to put your little pea brain in gear before you type!!

  • Kinetic1

    Chip,
    Any ideological differences we have take a back seat to this issue. No American citizen should ever be tried, convicted and executed without the benefit of our court system. Considering the argument we had over whether or not detainees held at Guantanamo Bay should be tried in American courts for their alleged crimes, there is little that can be said to defend President Obama’s actions. I’ve said before that I will not blindly support our President and this is one of those times when I disagree with his decision. As always, he may have information that we are unaware of that lead him to believe that his actions were justified, but I can not imagine what they could be. This was just plain wrong.

    • Lee Baldwin

      The United States of America declared WAR on Al Quida right after 911, Kinetic1. Once war is declared, the articles of war and rules of engaugement come into play. This creep Al Awlaki became a TRAITOR to the USA. He masterminded some horrific acts, so “We the People” killed him. It has been one of the few things Mr.Obama has done that made me proud to be American. Al Awlaki TRIED HIMSELF when he decided to become a traitor to America. The only thing they failed to do was smear the missle with pig blood.

      • Average Joe

        The last time I checked, George Bush declared war on Afghanistan following 911…and then he declared war on Iraq (one with congression approval {sorta} and one without. However, we did not declare war on “Al Quida” (or any other spelling variation you care to print)….If Bush said publicly that we are declaring “war on terror”, it isn’t anything other than a personal statement…period.
        Show me the declaration of war on “Al Quida”…I patiently await said declaration…not that it will be forthcoming….because there isn’t one. Facts matter to some of us….without facts to support your view, you are simply blowing smoke and hoping nobody will notice the stench in the room.

      • professor

        There is “stench in the room.” when an American can’t identify an enemy! This man was no more an American than was Bin laden.

      • Average Joe

        professor,

        Your proof?
        Simply stating your “opinion” has no bearing on the subject…other than it is your….. opinion.
        If you have evidence that the rest of us don’t have…please..post it for all of the world to see. But, I suspect that you have formed your “opinion” based soley on media accounts and government talking heads as if neither of them would ever lie to us….Please enlighten us with your vast knowlege of the case at hand…..
        If you can’t enlighten us with your brilliance, maybe you could revert to baffling us with more of your BS….open mouth…switch feet (get used to the taste, I am guessing that you chew on those toes regularly).

      • professor

        Do you really know how stupid your post sounds..

      • Average Joe

        Just as I thought…no facts? More inane BS?

        Wow, that was well thought out and intelligent…not!
        Rather than putting forth anything to back up your opinion, you resort to… cheap shots?….Get a life…gather some facts…then come back and talk to the adults…in the meantime, stick to talking with the little kids that you are used to talking to…..Professor? get real….a legend in your own mind…LMAO!!!!

  • s c

    Is there any difference between the death of al-Awlaki and Diem in Vietnam? Trying to tell the difference between the good guys and the bad guys in Vietnam – even with a score card – was worse than merely tricky. The new Vietnam [Iraq, Afghanistanistan, Pakistan, et al] has re-opened that perverse door.
    Once again, puppet masters have put us in the position of having our military in harm’s way. We (apparently) can’t win, we have no plans to end the conflict, most of our ‘friends’ are indisposed and this time Washington has so many extra armchair thumbs rammed up its bloated, collective arse that we may be in the land of the Muslim infidel for generations.
    We have the same old whore media, a bunch of new faces in Washington, but the basic scenario is the same as in Vietnam. So, is there really any difference between the death of al-Awlaki and Diem in Vietnam?
    Deja vu is in full bloom, and leadership is just a word, to be defined and re-defined at the whim of whoever is ‘in charge’ in Washington. A dog chasing its tail has it easier than our military, folks.

    • Alex

      Apparently you didn’t read the article, s c.

      Al-Alwaki was a US citizen, Diem was not. The thrust of Mr Wood’s posting, I believe, was about the dangerous ground we tread upon once we start killing our own citizens without due process.

      • DaveH

        It shouldn’t matter if they are citizens or not. If we believe an approach is the moral approach it should apply to all people, not just the ones we pick and choose.

      • James

        I tend to agree. Bush’s expressed purpose for invading Iraq was to remove Saddam Hussein from power. In fact, after he accomplished that, he obviously thought that war was over.

      • Michael

        George W Bush was an idiot for declaring the Iraqi war over – as any person with one ounce of military knowledge will tell you, a war is not over so long as the enemy has the will and the means to fight and resist. Our military are now paying the terrible price for that “end of the war”.

      • FreedomFighter

        It is not the America we grew up in, it is the NWO taking over America, thru use of the FEDERAL RESERVE, World Banking Cartel and thru political corruption slow shredding of the constitution of America.

        NWO banksters are installing the slave state on you, me and everyone else in the world. Like frogs in water that slowly comes to a boil, we find out to late, maybe.

        A war is coming, that they want, to kill us in the millions an billions.

        Laus Deo
        Semper Fi

      • Evermyrtle

        Hundreds of years ago, in England people were being horribly persecuted for their belief in GOD,JESUS CHRIST AND THE HOLY SPIRIT and could not worship as they wanted to do. Finally many decided to come to America. They had heard it was a land, where they could worship GOD as they pleased. They sacrificed to be able to pay the fare to get here. The traveling conveniences were horrible with many dieing and were buried at sea, never getting a glance of the land they were hoping to see. The little ships were crammed with more than twice the number of people that it was built to handle and the only thing that could say about the food, was that is was barely eatable.

        Finally, arriving with nothing but a few clothes and a few things that were absolutely necessary for survival, they went to work building one room cabins and clearing land to plant their crops. If it had not been for the Indians, who welcomed the pioneers, they would have starved to death. The entire family, lived in one room cabins. They struggled to survive, growing every bit of their food and made all of their clothing, after making the cloth….

        Their saving GRACE was GOD. They trusted HIM, read and studied HIS WORD, their Bibles, which was, in most cases the only reading material that they brought with them. They taught their children and grandchildren to study and obey GOD’S commandments.

        Many did not survive but those who did fought bravely with GOD at their sides, who they greatly honored and depended on. They made great progress during the generations following. They worked hard and continued to give honor to GOD for many, many generations. Satan finally got a toehold and things began to deteriorate when many people chose to disregard GOD and taught their children to do the same.

        The One World Order began to make it’s entry into the world, which has been encouraged to grow for several hundred years and the prosperity of America began to falter. We are at the point of accepting this One World Order/Religion and have begun to put GOD away, to accept and promote anti-GOD practices as in homosexuality, baby murder and a host of other things that make Christians shutter. The One World Religion will be “Chrislam”. Chrislam is not Christianity but a combination of Christian and Islams religion. The word, itself is an abomination to GOD. At the same time our country is about to fall to this Anti-GOD religion. We are, as a country, are accepting and promoting it.

        AND WE WONDER WHY WE ARE IN THIS MESS OF MORAL AND ECONOMICAL FAILURE.

      • Harald Weyrich

        I’m with Mr. Wood and TML on this one. To accept the edicts of POTUS without disregard or consideration of due process will be our demise. With the sheeple/lemming mindset supporting his actions, Obama has struck a goldmine for popularizing himself by killing terrorists. It should not matter whether he targets Americans or non-Americans. To think he assumes he has the power to take life at his discretion as would God should be more than disconcerting to us all.

        But he gets away with it so now lets move on to more meaningful things such as private property rights. He seems to think he has the right to take from the rich to give to the poor. Look at the mindless sheeple protesting in the streets today and once again he gets endorsements for the class warfare he perpetuates.

        As for being at war, we interred Japanese Americans during World War 2 considering them to be a threat to our national security and taking it upon ourselves to do so without any consideration of the Constitution and the laws of the land. Ironic how today we get chastised or accused of hate crimes for anything that remotely resembles a derogatory comment towards muslims, a very many of them who are not Americans while Jews and Christians are perpetually scrutinized for freely practicing their faiths.

        What or who are should we be at war with?

      • http://www.headprimer.com kantstanja

        “A war is coming, that they want, to kill us in the millions an billions”.

        …And why should that be a surprise FreedomFighter? Even our own scientists are saying that the population has grown beyond it’s capacity to sustain life (food production vs mouths to feed).. How else are those in the know (and power) going to bring it back to it’s 2 – 3 trillion capacity level? Natural death and disasters are just too slow in the making (even with strict birth control) as those in charge conjure other means to whittle down to these numbers otherwise these out of control numbers will eventually culminate into a series of natural disasters that will threaten the entire population of mankind, rich and poor alike. Thus, the US isn’t solely sanctioning murder.. The entire world is guilty of that distinction, and THIS… Is just the beginning.

      • philip mccormack

        FF. WHY IS IT SO FEW PEOPLE REALISE THAT THE FED IS THE MAIN CAUSE OF OUR TROUBLE. They are the cause of war, poverty corruption of government etc and their system has impoverished the working productive classes

      • Jibbs

        kantstanja says:
        October 7, 2011 at 8:08 pm
        “A war is coming, that they want, to kill us in the millions an billions”.

        …And why should that be a surprise FreedomFighter? Even our own scientists are saying that the population has grown beyond it’s capacity to sustain life (food production vs mouths to feed).. How else are those in the know (and power) going to bring it back to it’s 2 – 3 trillion capacity level? Natural death and disasters are just too slow in the making (even with strict birth control) as those in charge conjure other means to whittle down to these numbers otherwise these out of control numbers will eventually culminate into a series of natural disasters that will threaten the entire population of mankind, rich and poor alike. Thus, the US isn’t solely sanctioning murder.. The entire world is guilty of that distinction, and THIS… Is just the beginning.

        ———————————————————————-

        kantstanja, how did you come up with 2-3 trillion people?
        There are just under 7 billion people on our planet.

      • Joanne

        Freedom Fighter, You are so right. If the average citizen only knew exactly what the NWO is all about, what they have in store, not only for us, but eighty per cent of the world population, they would pay more attention to our politicians. Out of our seven candidates for president, five of them are members of the NWO, including Cain. Have you noticed when a new candidate pops up they soar to the top for a short while, then drop back? The NWO is testing the water to see which one will make it to the top and stay there. And that is the one that will be elected unless we all vote for one of the true Americans. I have seen the FEMA camps and the coffins that will hold three of us, I had never thought of sharing a coffin but guess I won’t complain when the time comes. Normally when I write of the New World Order they do not post it, and if they don’t at least I got it off my chest and gave it my best shot.

      • Robert Smith

        “As far as I know, he was never accused of a crime by any legal authority in this country or abroad. Not only did he never get a chance to face his accusers, there was never a trial or even a hearing by any court, military or civilian.”

        Have you forgotten where he proclaimed WAR against the United States? Last I heard someone at war with America becomes a legal target.

        It was his own actions that got him killed. His death was no different than any other enemy casualty, only the field of battel has changed.

        Rob

      • Maine_1950

        I agree totalling with your comments. I believe Mr. Woods missing the whole point, or refuses to believe, that we ARE at “WAR” with terrorism and they are with us. Thus, we are following the constitution and he was treasonous towards his country. “Off with his head”!

      • crisscross

        There is a legal process for engaging in war, which has been violated, and a legal process for convicting criminals, including traitors, which has been violated. Under our Constitution, due process is not optional and once we start rationalizing its suspension, the rule of law, a foundation of our republic, becomes meaningless.

      • Cheeky Monkey

        Crisscross – I totally agree with your staements. This isn’t the country I grew up to believe in either. Either we the people make a stand against this current tyranny or we will all go the way of the Jews in Nazi Germany.

      • Jana

        Wow, for once I do agree with Robert Smith.
        **********
        crisscross says:
        October 7, 2011 at 11:28 am
        There is a legal process for engaging in war, which has been violated, and a legal process for convicting criminals, including traitors, which has been violated. Under our Constitution, due process is not optional and once we start rationalizing its suspension, the rule of law, a foundation of our republic, becomes meaningless.*****************

        We have not violated the rules of war, the Terrorists did. Whether or not the terrorists are a country or a group of peoples that would work as hard as these terrorists have to destroy us, war has been declared against us. For us to NOT realize this, then we are an easily defeated people. These people are Islamists. Are we to declare war against all Islam? That wouldn’t be right since not all Islamists are at war with us. A little common sense and some wisdom needs to prevail here. We are not living in a black and white rules are rules society. The terrorists have made sure of that. These terrorists would use bombs to blow up buildings with innocent people in them.
        This man may have not had what some would call a fair trial, but he was a KNOWN terrorist, working with other terrorists and was in a location that shows he was busy conducting his business of terroism.

        If we fight our enemy at full force we will beat him, but if we allow our enemy to use our own laws against us, then we will lose. Pascifism will not defeat our enemies. Pascifism is as big an enemy to our survival as terrorism is.

      • TML

        “Have you forgotten where he proclaimed WAR against the United States? Last I heard someone at war with America becomes a legal target.”

        Hmm… and the evidence of him proclaiming war against the United States is where?

      • JP

        This whole thing would have been a non-issue if they said the target was the driver and Al-wacky was killed accidentally, and was merely collateral damage.

      • TML

        @Maine_1950 says – “that we ARE at “WAR” with terrorism”

        I think you are missing the point, that “terrorism” is a tactic. Making war with a tactic, allows government to put ANYONE under such an umbrella term.

        “Terrorism is the best political weapon for nothing drives people harder than a fear of sudden death.” – Adolf Hitler

        @Maine_1950 says – “Thus, we are following the constitution”

        U.S. Constitution Article 3, Section 3 – “Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort. No Person shall be convicted of Treason unless on the Testimony of two Witnesses to the same overt Act, or on Confession in open Court.

        The Congress shall have power to declare the Punishment of Treason, but no Attainder of Treason shall work Corruption of Blood, or Forfeiture except during the Life of the Person attainted.”

        Thus… no we are not following the Constitution

      • TML

        I think it merits quoting again…

        “NO PERSON SHALL BE CONVICTED OF TREASON UNLESS ON THE TESTIMONY OF TWO WITNESSES TO THE SAME OVERT ACT, OR ON CONFESSION IN OPEN COURT” – United States Constitution, Article 3, Section 3

      • DaveH

        Spare me, all you war-mongers. “War” is just an excuse to murder people who are in your way. You can use whatever euphemisms you like, but they still do not negate the fact that people are being killed who haven’t attacked us. It is not “self-defense” for us to butt our nosey noses into other countries’ business. We are the Aggressors. If any other country performed the actions our military is performing against other countries, the majority of our citizens would be advocating War against those Aggressor countries. Our Country is being Hypocritic writ large.
        I am especially ashamed of all you who are religious and conveniently push aside your moral teachings to satisfy your blood lust.

      • http://bellsouth.net Oakley Mann

        Robert, I agree with you. In fact, he was no longer an American Citizen. He gave up all his rights and protection as a citizen of the United States the same as traitors in the past have done, denounced our Country and it’s ideology and fled to the east to join with his kind with the understanding that Death to all Americans was their ultimate goal. He had no rights, period. To my knowledge, this execution and Bib Laden’s execution are the only legal actions BO has performed since the beginning of his Presidency.

      • usmadgirl

        Oakley Mann,

        AMEN!!!

      • Old Henry

        Well Maine:

        His country is Kenya, so our Constitution means nothing to him…

        You are spot on, however, Off with his head!

      • Old Henry

        Oakley:

        Little Barry is an illegal resident in OUR WH, so ANYTHING he does is illegal.

      • Robert Smith

        Question asked: “Hmm… and the evidence of him proclaiming war against the United States is where?”

        From Fox news (not my favorite): http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/06/27/panetta-american-born-al-awlaki-declared-war/
        “Speaking with ABC’s “This Week,” Panetta affirmed that several terror plots can be traced back to the radical cleric, who last month called for the killing of American civilians in a video released by Al Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula.”

        IOW, by his own words on video.

        Rob

        Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/06/27/panetta-american-born-al-awlaki-declared-war/#ixzz1aCftzSJE

      • David

        Actually, according to Obama the war on terror is over. There is no War on Terror or War on drugs. It is all unconstitutional use of force. This guy should never have been allowed to leave the US in the first place, but since he left, he still should have at least been indicted. There was no judicial review. He was not on the battlefield, he was not holding a weapon of any sort. They killed him for spewing his hateful propaganda, which opens it up to anyone….Why not take out Piven? She has called for the same terror stuff. How about Hellfires for all the neo-nazi kooks? There is no limit if we except the president can kill anybody. I believe in killing terroists, but I also believe their should be an actual review by the Judiciary unless you catch them in the act. Whyt are they giving the underwear guy a trial, save money just shoot him, or Maj hassan? He was caught in the act, actually hurting people. He gets due process. That is the law. You either believe in the constitution or you don’t. There is no more room for grey areas. You can’t expect any of your other rights to be upheld if you don’t uphold this one.

      • Alfie

        The laws of these U.S. were written to protect the citizens of these United States. Amazingly, some believe that U.S. laws were written for and apply to every human being on the planet. Not so. We do not ‘pick and choose,’ and morality has nothing to do with it. A citizen who becomes a terrorist should receive due process in our courts of law. A terrorist who is not a citizen is not protected by U.S. laws snd is subject to wartime extermination. We are, after all, still engaged in a ‘war on terror,” no matter what one wishes to call it. Perhaps this terrorist was exterminated because they could not bring him back to the U.S. to face prosecution, yet he was too dangerous to be left alive.

      • DaveH

        You don’t think Hitler had excuses for his atrocities?
        Perhaps the people Awlaki was dangerous to were sneaky Politicians and their Government cohorts whose evil doings might have been exposed if he were tried in a court. Leaders are liars. That’s a fact.

      • http://?? Joe H.

        Alfie,
        If we use the thought that someone is a terrorist, then we all have a problem. Remember a few years ago when Peelousy called all veterans “possible terrorists”? She is a member of this government and what happens when the president and homeland agree with her???

      • EdinNola

        Dave, One of the quirky things about “morality” is that your morality, John Doe’s morality and my morality are not always exactly the same thing. We have laws for precisely that reason – to make certain that everyone falling within the scope of that body of laws has the same definition of morality. The first order law in this country is the Constitution, and anyone who disregards this law, especially anyone in a position of power should be relegated to a position of irrelevence. First: the Constitution applies only to citizens. Second: the Constitution says citizens cannot be deprived of (essentially anything) without due process. Any contravention of the Constitution is illegal, including trying to make up special secret laws to claim the right to commit murder without due process.

      • DaveH

        Here you go, EdinNola. I’ve made it easy for you. Please show me where the Fifth Amendment says anything about citizenship status?
        http://www.cato.org/pubs/constitution/amendments_en.html

        Where are you people getting off? By your criteria, Government could do anything it wanted to non-citizens. Get real.

      • Brenda Choate

        Read the Constitution. The man met the criteria for treason. A charge that carried the death penalty. Aligning with and abetting the enemy is sedition. Regardless of his place of birth, he was a traitor and enabler of terrorist. Capture would have been difficult and placed our troops in danger. The kill call was justified on the basis the man was plotting to kill Americans.

      • FreedomFighter

        The problem is this Brenda:

        Homeland Security has listed VETRANS, Christians, those that believe in bible, store food and water, own guns, etc etc, as possible TERRORISTS ENEMY.

        Some Fat female smuck deems you an enemy, now they can kill you or your family aide an abetting…

        Watch what door you open to evil, evil has a nasty habit of coming in.

        Laus Deo
        Semper Fi

      • Robert Smith

        Really Freedom… How many of those who you claim have actually declared war on America and acted as such?

        Rob

      • FreedomFighter

        How many has our president(s) declared war on, without approval?

        The checks an balances are to stop tyrants.

        Laus Deo
        Semper Fi

      • Jana

        Freedom Fighter,
        Actually I still agree with Brenda. Even though they have tried to make many of us out to be terrorists, we still do have the right to carry and use our weapons at the proper time. We are working within the laws to change the fact that we have been called terrorists.

        We cannot allow fear to dictate how we respond to real terrorists.

      • DaveH

        Robert,
        You have no idea what his actions were. You are solely relying on the word of Political practitioners who have a long history of dishonesty. Do you have any idea what Awlaki’s side of the story is? Of course you don’t, because he didn’t get a fair trial where he could tell his side of the story.
        Read this story about the deception of CIA agents in 1953:
        http://www.iranchamber.com/history/coup53/coup53p1.php

      • DaveH
      • DaveH

        I only wish I owned the company that manufactures the rings through all of your sheeple noses. I would be filthy rich. Robert would envy my wealth.

      • Old Henry

        Jana:

        Never forget that ALL guns laws are ILLEGAL laws per the 2nd Amendment. What part of Shall not be infringed do people not understand?

      • Robert Smith

        David asks: “Do you have any idea what Awlaki’s side of the story is?”

        Yes, I do.

        This information was out in June of 2010. There was over a year for anyone who had a different point of view to come forward. From: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/06/27/panetta-american-born-al-awlaki-declared-war/

        “Awlaki is a terrorist who has declared war on the United States. Everything he’s doing now is to try to encourage others to attack this country — there’s a whole stream of intelligence that goes back to Awlaki and his continuous urging of others to attack this country in some way,” Panetta said. “Awlaki is a terrorist and, yes, he’s a U.S. citizen, but he is first and foremost a terrorist and we’re going to treat him like a terrorist.”

        Again, why didn’t you deman a trial then when he was declared an enemy combatant? No evidence otherwise maybe? The creep deserved to die and so he did at the hands of our military, just like any other who is at war with America.

        Rob

      • DaveH

        That’s rich, a Liberal quoting Fox news.
        Of course somebody is making accusations. I could make accusations about you. But what would Awlaki have to say in his defense? We’ll never know because the Government shut him up permanently.

      • Average Joe

        David asks: “Do you have any idea what Awlaki’s side of the story is?”

        Yes, I do.

        This information was out in June of 2010. There was over a year for anyone who had a different point of view to come forward.

        I love it..you make a statement like this and then proceed to use as evidence, someone elses “opinion piece” as evidence. Panetta, stating his opinion , is not the same as hearing or reading what Anwar al-Awlaki actually said (from his own mouth or web page). Again you are relying soley on the word of someone else rather than from the actual source.
        I can call you a terrorist all day long. I can insinuate anything I want about you….does that make it true? Of course not, you ninny!
        Wise up…and stop spreading heresay as though it is somehow factual information….it isn’t!

      • Aix Sponsa

        Fact is that his actions speak loudly. Arguing whether a formal letter to the justice dept renouncing citizenship is required, or if citizenship of a natural born citizen can be annulled by the feds so that they can whack him….. his overt treasonist actions declared his true intent. Still, someone who is a citizen should have due process.
        Without due process each individual is doomed.

      • Peter

        The CHARGE of treason is just a charge. The question is: how do we get a conviction? Do we have to have the person charged in custody? Maybe we could offer ‘safe passage’, and if it is not accepted, hold a trial ‘in absence’. Don’t think that’s a legal option now, but maybe it should be.

      • crisscross

        Brenda, you need to re-read the Constitution and pay particular attention to those pesky little parts about criminal due process. This “war” was never declared under the prescribed process, and due process, which is required for the prosecution and conviction of all alleged criminals, was violated. If we keep this up, a traitor will soon be defined as anyone who the government accuses and due process will degenerate to this point where a partisan government is prosecutor, judge, jury and executioner with no checks and balances. That is not what the Founders intended for obvious reasons.

      • Robert Smith

        From crisscross: “This “war” was never declared under the prescribed process, and due process, which is required for the prosecution and conviction of all alleged criminals,”

        Then George Bush should be brought to trial for all those deaths too.

        Rob

      • http://?? Joe H.

        Actually, rob, Bush did go through the requirements in going to Iraq! he went to congress and got their backing. I agree with very little bush did, but he DID do that. nobummer contacted NO ONE!!! don’t bother trying to tell me that Bush lied because if that’s true, how can an imbecile like nobummer say he knew better than to vote for it???

      • Aix Sponsa

        Facts abound that many if not MOST liberals and democrats in DC not only encouraged and voted for the war in Iraq, they DEMANDED it. History will judge Bush2 as one of the greatest POTUS in history.

      • mrcave

        Okay, he committed treason. The government didn’t charge him with anything. Many reasons can be given to justify why this man wasn’t brought to trial, but to not even bring charges against the man is simply throwing away the American way. There is NO excuse for executing anybody that has not even been charged with a crime, no matter what their level of guilt.

        You can shout about being at war all you want to. It will just make the government feel more comfortable in their destruction of the Constitution.

      • Will Smith

        The problem with your argument is that, while the Constitution may define what he did as treason, it also specifies that he be afforded the due process of trial and conviction BEFORE sentence is passed. It matters vastly more that we violated our own constitution in illegally executing a citizen thousands of miles away and not on a battlefield. What if the government next decides that anyone attending a Tea Party rally is guilty of aiding and abetting al-Qaeda? Believe me, if Barack Insane Obama thought he could get away with it, that is exactly what the regime would do.

      • Jana

        He was in a convoy with other terrorists, conducting business.
        When a bank robber is shot during a robbery (his profession) are we to condemn the policeman or citizen that shot him because he did not get his due process?

      • TML

        A more correct analogy would be, if the cop or citizen, after personally witnessing a robbery, then tracked him down and premeditatedly murder the robber while driving down the road with other robbers.

      • DaveH

        Jana,
        Here is the result of our blindered citizens who are willing to march in lockstep with the PTBs (warning, not for the faint of heart):
        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5rXPrfnU3G0
        It’s too bad you all can’t see the reality of body parts flying as a result of 50 cal bullets striking bodies. It isn’t pretty.

      • http://bellsouth.net Oakley Mann

        Will, the thoughts you present are worthwhile, but I believe when he states his intention is death for all Americans, and then proceeds to carry that intention out, he has waived any rights as an American,he is indeed as traitorous as Bendedict Arnold and our laws willand should no longer protect him. But, also, BO is surely not someone I would trust not to break the law if his ego or position were threatened. We have already seen what he and his Atty Gen Holder are capable of with the illegal adventures of “Fast and Furious” which caused death to countless Mexican citizens and to at least two of our own Agents, American citizens who were gunned down by guns given to them by our Pres and Holder in hopes of ridding his Criminal Administration of the 2nd Amendment of the United States. He had high hopes of reporting to Ms Sarah Brady that his campaign promise to her of “under the table gun control” had been fulfilled while in the meantime shutting down lawful Trade shows and Stores that trade and sell guns. His total plan to wreck America has only just begun but because of some heroic and patriotic reporters,some agents in the BATFE who are patriotic to the core,and certainly because of The NRA this unlawful venture is liable to prove their undoing, we can only pray, hope and vote that is the case. You are more than correct on the whole and normally I would agree, and do agree w/ majority, but this fanatical Muslim lunatic was not an American citizen as practical definitions go.

      • bob wire

        “http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5rXPrfnU3G0
        It’s too bad you all can’t see the reality of body parts flying as a result of 50 cal bullets striking bodies. It isn’t pretty.”

        A 50 cal. does make a serious mark but it’s only as big around as your small finger and the slug is little more than half as long. These were 30 mm canon rounds. A 40 mm fits nicely inside a toilet paper roll so it is some smaller.

        That would be like getting hit by a freight train,traveling supersonic.

      • http://bellsouth.net Oakley Mann

        In response to Bob Wire, I hope this falls in line, I had to come back up to Will in order to respond. Bob, I have used a .50 cal and know it’s potential, in fact I own an Israeli .50 cal. I have used 30mm’s and know their death range, and I have been the #1 loader on 3″ 50′s, those really go boom and cause carnage. They do not change my outlook in regards to the terrorist being justly smitten from mother earth. He really got what he begged for, so he thought before becoming a small zero in the annals of history, martyrdom. He likely really thought a lot more jinxes would go before him. Wrong he was, but such is life. Our reward usually shows up when we least expect it

      • DaveH

        You’re right, Bob. I thought the helicopters usually had 50 caliber weapons.

      • Aix Sponsa

        BOB WIRE please shut up. It is obvious that YOU have never witnessed a BMG.50 caliber sniper or machine gun projectile weighing 750 grains going 3,000 feet per second muzzle velocity hit a human body at any distance. It does NOT make a .50 hole. The input hole is big enough for a baseball and there is no decernable exit wound, per se, because the exit wound is about the size of a basketball or larger. Human beings literally explode and big chunks fly freely. So shut up Jackazz, and stop pretending that you are some great combat veteran.

      • mickey

        DaveH, thanks for the video link.

        It is so hard in a war to distinguish who is and who is not the enemy. The video surely did not show any weapons.

        This country is out of control. Terrorist is a coin terminology used in many movies from the 60′s (and more?) on. Indeed, Clyburn and Pelosi have decreed the TP as terrorists and the government didn’t blink an eye yet the OWS is out and out trashing and destroying and the WH sanctions this.

      • Old Henry

        Brenda:

        “he was a traitor and enabler of terrorist”

        So is Little Barry. Should we send a drone over 1600? Sounds like a plan to me as Little Barry has set the president of executing “traitors” without due process.

      • David

        While he may meet all the requirements for treason, they forgot the part where they present actual evidence to that fact. I hope you will be calling for the execution of the wikileaker as well, because he committed treason. At least he will get due process

      • Bear

        So, Alex, was Jesse James a citizen, Billy the Kid? Once again, you elude to the fact that bad guys actually have rights. Lets say, I break into your home and you catch me in your daughter’s bedroom standing over her with a gun in my hand. You heard me and knew someone was in your home and you got you gun and began a search of your home finding me there in your daughter’s bedroom. What are you going to do? Does it really matter to you that I haven’t killed anyone or that I haven’t been charged with a crime yet? Remember now, I have a gun and so do you. Are you going to wait for due process?

      • Bruce Redd

        Bear, your argument fails because you are talking about self defense in your own home and not about a traitor living in a foreign country. I don’t know that an individual declaring war on the United States constitutes a declaration of war. I don’t know if Mr. al-Awlaki actually attacked the United States. I think the point here is that a citizen of the United States was denied his constitutional rights. Bad argument and yes bad guys have rights.

      • http://bellsouth.net Oakley Mann

        Bruce, I am in the minority, but I believe he denied himself all rights as an American citizen when he denounced our Country and fled to the east to be with his kind and he stated the intention of ridding the earth of all Americans. His and their total and exclusive goal was murdering American men, woman and children with no distinction as to whether an armed combatant or a civilian, all must die. He was a pure and total defector and traitor to his Country, foregoing all rights and protection of an American citizen, and where we found him we had the right to plant him.

      • Bear

        Sorry Bruce, I guews you just don’t get the point. It really doesn’t matter if the threat is inside your home or outside your home. This individual, al-Awlaki, posed a real and serious threat to every American and that includes you. This guy is like a cancer. This is the guy that has been recruiting and helping train Al-queda operatives. What do you think he was doing in Yemen, taking a holiday? When anyone turns against his country of birth as this man did, he can no longer be considered one of us. Now for the real challenge to your intellect. We still don’t have solid proof that Obama is an American, so, did we actually have an American approving the killing of an American, an African approving the killing of an American, an American approving the killing of a traitor, an African approving the killing of a traitor. or traitor approving the killing of another traitor?

      • http://bellsouth.net Oakley Mann

        Bear, you have me laughing. You have seen the way the lefties can turn truths upside down to fit their needs and desires. You are surely going to send some lefties with extremely fragile intellects straight over the cliff trying to end the confusion your question will pose in their befuddled minds.

      • mrcave

        It’s not whether the bad guy deserved rights or not. It’s that our government has granted itself the power to deny rights that DO EXIST to any person, anywhere, including any law abiding U.S. citizens, on U.S. soil, that they simply do not like.

        Th patriot act is a bigger threat to our freedom than terrorists.

      • professor

        This piece of camel dung, didn’t deserve “due process.” He deserved no better than Bin Laden. Awalaki was recruiting a foreign army, in an attempt to destroy our country. In my book, that is treason. He betrayed his allegiance to this country and its security and wore the robes of the enemy. He made no attempt to conceal his intentions, and was overtly active in the Middle East, giving support to islamic terrorists. Being an American was only an unfortunate geographical incident.

        People like this guy should expect to be hunted, by those he wants to destroy. That is the way of war. War is not fought in the hallways of the Courthouse. This is a big mistake our government has made. The Gitmo detainees do not have the right to a civilian trial, and neither did this cretin. When enemies are engaged in war and are in battles with our military..that is a matter of war..

        I would like to know this cretin’s family history and how he came to be born in America…. I believe I heard that he was of Mexican descent. If so, I am wondering if he started out with La Raza or some other militant organization… This man did not just wake up one day and decide that he would try to destroy our country. Regardless, it makes no difference….When a person “lives by the sword, they die by the sword.” This is an occupational hazard, when you are a terrorist.

        And to Chip, I understand what you are saying. “Will this be a precedent setting decision.” Will this cause Americans to be hunted down, in this country, because they disagree with this regime…in a word…NO!

        If this regime decides it wants to hunt Americans and kill them for merely disagreeing with its policies, the job would be enormous. They would have 82% of the country to deal with, at the same time. If and when that should come to be, “the punishing of my enemies,” it will have little, if anything, to do with Awalaki, in my opinion.

      • Clint

        Who do you think financed Anwar Al-Awlaki?

      • FreeMan

        So, we have the underware bomber on trial. Why did we not just execute him on arrival? After all, he was the one who intended and tried to kill American Citizens. And, of course, he was and is not an American. I do not believe that any of you who want to ignore or void our Constitution are Americans. Does that mean that all of you should become targets?

      • Matt Newell

        Why are we having a civil trial for him is he is a terrorist he should face a military tribunal. Oh, I forgot — little Barry wants to tear this country apart (as he is now doing) and giving terrorists American rights will do thar very well — thank you.

      • Lee Baldwin

        or just possibly speaking out against the current administration, Alex. We have seen right on this same forum people who said they were arrested and fined just for speaking out agains Harison J. Bounel aka Barry Soetoro aka Barrack Obama. I know I am pushing the envelope by exposing all his names, but the guy is an illegal alien criminal of the highest degree and people should know this before the next election.

      • http://bellsouth.net Oakley Mann

        Lee, I believe everything you say about BO and there are millions more of me. He surely is low, he stole a song title from a C&W star, I forget her name, when he stated in a press conference that he is”standing by his man” Atty Gen. Eric Holder regardless of his illegal activities in regards to Gun Control and elsewhere, Eric is so criminal it will take awhile to nab him on all of his criminal enterprises. Even though this same Eric Holder is directly responsible for the murder of two American citizens working for the Federal Govt by his knowledge and funding of “Fast and Furious”, King BO has the unmitigated gall to endorse Eric. Do you know why? Because Eric can surely put BO at the head of this pile of garbage known as “Fast and Furious”. That is certain. Two American citizens dead, countless Mexican citizens dead on BO and Eric’s dirty account, and most of America does not even know it has happened, and could care less. That is how crimes of the elite are swept under the table, these heroes of the HO Muslim who was rightfully executed could care less about what happens in their very back yard. Talking and squalking about the rights of a terrorist killed at the bidding of a Pres, and ignore the deaths of countless innocents at the behest of their Pres and Atty Gen. Hmm, I guess I better join the in-crowd, they surely know how to pick the easy ones.

      • Aix Sponsa

        The USA is so close to another Civil War that only the true patriots can see it. Sad to say, but our great Republic is at it’s last days unless major decisive actions are taken in the next election. (If we actually have one) Many christians (like WWII Jews) believe that only prayer will help, others believe that this is God’s will for this nation to die and be resurrected….. problem is that WE have to live it and pass what is left to our posterity. GOD BLESS AMERICA, LONG MAY SHE STAND. Want to know who the real patriots are? Check out who flies OLD GLORY on the days and who flew IT last 9/11. The rest are posers trying to convince themselves that they are American Patriots.

      • SMSgt Z retired Nam 68

        Al-Alwak was a combatant just like someone on the battle field caring an AK or RPG;therefor a legitimate target.This war is not WW2,there is no ground to take.There is only the enemy who wants you dead or you to change your core belief’s and follow his belief’s.So it’s kill them were ever they hide and using a Hell Fire missile works for me.

      • FireMall

        So; What say ye that opposed killing a Self Pronounced enemy of America when it’s so easy for many to forget what happened under Clinton’s Marxist regime vis Janet Reno in Waco ?
        86 dead civilians that were purposefully set up to be the poster children of Hillary & Bill’s Gun Control agenda.
        At least the Liberals are consistent with their History of killing the innocent for the ,as Obama Often refers to as, The Greater Good.
        This is a part of History the Obama Lovers obviously were not privy to in the new aged education system that was purposefully dumbed down for the end times of America.
        If any Obama supporter, young or old had any knowledge of History they would be shocked to learn that the Useful Idiots in all of History are Always the First to be eliminated after the Evil ones they idolized are in absolute control and have no further Use for Idiots.

      • Old Henry

        Alex:

        As with every thing these scum do I think it was a test to see how much outrage there was from the American piople in particular and Congress.

        Not much outrage, then they see it as a green light to, ah, expand their gangster activities to inside our borders.

        Remember, Right Wing Christians,gun owners, veterans, conservatives in general, are considered by this administration and Nazitano to be terrorists.

        So, with the commie Muslim Kenyan ratcheting up protests and public discontent their list may become quite lengthy. And as with the white Hitler by that time it will be too late for public outcry.

      • JUKEBOX

        People need to be protesting the criminals in Justice and the WH who are promoting “FAST AND FURIOUS”, all the while denying any knowledge of the program. They need to turn the drones on the Mexican drug cartels, but that would stop the flow of payoff money to the WH.

      • DaveH

        They don’t need to set the drones on the Mexican cartels. They simply need to end the Drug Wars, and the non-Government-sponsored drug cartels will go away just like the Mafia mostly went away after Prohibition was ended.

        http://mises.org/books/prohibition.pdf

      • http://?? Joe H.

        DaveH,
        The Mob never went away, it just went “legit”!! There are still people getting “whacked” by them all the time. It’s just that other things are deemed more important by the media!!

      • DaveH

        Okay Joe,
        Now you made me have to work, lol:
        http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig/thornton4.html

      • Danny

        Amen Alex. You’re spot on!

    • ralph herman

      The real hero of nam was Lt.Calli.We cannot win a war we don’t know how.You draw fire you kill them all and let God sort them out.Their willingness to kill their own and blow themselves up and hide behind innocent people.If they don’t care about their people why should we?Now stuff that in your rules of engagement.

      • SMSgt Z retired Nam 68

        You are so wrong and evidently clueless about Nam

      • eddie47d

        Ralph is a traitor to humanity no more than the 9/11 hijackers.Lt. Calley killed or ordered the killing of 542 mostly women and children. No one from My Lai attacked US forces so it was pure and simple murder.You sir are a mindless little nazi wannabe.

      • JeffH

        It is he who calls for civility and does not who is the hypocrit.

      • Bear

        Rules of enggement? What rules? Lt. Calley was the fall guy. Because of the way that war was fought, and I was there, there were mor Meili’s than I care to remember. Nam was a study in what happens when you allow politicians to run a war instead of your commanders. This is why we need to get rid of all lawyers in politics and keep them out.

      • FireMall

        @ Bear:
        First of all , I would like to take this Opportunity to apologize for ” The Ungrateful” people who blamed the Drafted enlistees for what the Politicians planned and executed in the Nam conflict.
        I was not drafted for medical reasons . However there are times I wish I was, and just as many times I thank God Almighty that I wasn’t sent to Nam. The Peacenicks of the 60′s are now the parents & or gov sponsored mentors of these idiots that are causing so much discourse today. Mostly Mentors because the Powers that be will never allow their off spring to be involved in their evil deeds, the offspring will however, be the benefactors of their mentors & Parent’s ill gotten bounties thus be safe from the results of their role model’s actions and be the designated leaders after age attrition takes it’s natural route..
        The one main difference, imo, between the 60′s hippy revolutions and today’s events ? The 60′s kumbyha hypocrites did not have a POTUS & Marxist admin backing them.
        Imo, The Nam era was a learning experience for the Hippies of the Nam era. They sure as hell learned that to succeed in destroying the Once Great nation of America they had to install an Allie / Allies in positions of power to further their plan. Seems to be working for them for the present time.
        Sad part is the fact that “We The People” would be foolish to trust any Politico regardless of Left or Right.

      • SMSgt Z retired Nam 68

        I was not drafted for medical reasons . However there are times I wish I was, and just as many times I thank God Almighty that I wasn’t sent to Nam We all know what your Medical Reasons were

      • SMSgt Z retired Nam 68

        Nam is Iraq and Afghanistan except we called them booby traps no IEP.The difference is in Nam a people were struggling to free themselves form there former colonial masters the French.In Afghanistan the 9/11 Saudi’s
        were trained and sent out for more training to attack the US.Iraq was a lie and a distraction.Our mission was and is to crush all combatants in there Jihad.

      • FireMall

        @–SMSgt Z retired Nam 68 says:
        October 7, 2011 at 7:57 pm
        I was not drafted for medical reasons . However there are times I wish I was, and just as many times I thank God Almighty that I wasn’t sent to Nam
        Quote:SMSgt Z retired Nam 68 says:
        “We all know what your Medical Reasons were”.

        First : Who the hell are the “WE” in your SA response to someone who was only offering Long overdue [by many] “Respect” for the Nam Era Soldiers & acknowledgement of the political BS the combat soldiers & Superiors had to deal with during the Nam War, not to mention, simply trying to stay alive in the process ??
        Your response doesn’t really warrant any reply from me , however just for the heck of it.
        A broken back from an auto accident when I was 10 years old & another crash 3 years later breaking my back again pretty well shot the possibilities of me being drafted.
        I reckon being hair lipped from birth and having surgeries past 18 years old doesn’t count for the Draft board classing me ineligible either .
        You might consider crawling out of that box of bitterness. You might find there are more folks on your side than the few you chose to “BE” on your side.
        The Nam vets I am friends with and respect, at least acknowledge my position as I do theirs.
        Some of the vets I have befriended over the last 40+ years had your attitude when I first met them too.
        The one vet friend that I highly respect , I met the day he got back home and he offered to cut my ears off because I was looking at the new shiny 69 Mach-1 Mustang he was riding in.
        A couple of years later we met again due to similar careers and became friends.
        About 2 years ago & 40+ years later, we were having a few drinks and discussing the old days.
        He talked about having a really bad taste in his mouth about draft dodgers after he was discharged in 69 .

        I told him about the first time we ” initially met” and what he had yelled out the window of that Mustang that day.
        He hasn’t missed any opportunities since to say how he wished he hadn’t been such a prick that day .
        As I offered him Honor & Respect 2 years after & as I offered you the Respect you deserved as a Vet a day ago & as I do every Vet I meet.
        Your reply will never change my respect for Veterans of all wars & As I do the 88 year old Sea Bee Vet { named Dude}in my mother’s nursing home that remembers my father’s B-29 bellied down on the beach of Siapan in 1943 after running out of Fuel 1/4 a mile short of the runway when coming back from a raid on Tokyo. Dude actually helped set down a Temporary Runway to get Dad’s plane back up after the plane was patched up enough to Fly back to Boeing in Seattle for major repairs.
        I’m glad my friend made it home from Nam in one piece and he is glad I didn’t have to go to Nam.
        Get my drift about judging things unknown ??

    • Libertarian

      Really?…

      please, check out: http://septemberclues.info/ – SeptemberClues.info | The Central Role of the News Media on 9/11

    • Old Henry

      s c:

      I don’t think that back in the days of Nam our government had a secret Death Panel that picked American citizens to murder as Little Barry does today.

      As Chip stated, it may not be long before our names are on the list and the CIA goons or the goons from Nazitano’s agency come a huntin’.

      As stated here many, many times: Buy precious metals. Gold, Silver, Lead. LOCK AND LOAD they’re soon comin over the hill.

      • SMSgt Z retired Nam 68

        you are truly F—– UP

      • Jibbs

        Take the bliders off and ear plugs out!

      • http://?? Joe H.

        Jibbs,
        100% agreement!! The good sarg forgets there are a lot of us that WERE there just like him and not all of us agree with him!!

    • http://slayerwulfe slayerwulfe

      so be it aka amen

    • http://slayerwulfe slayerwulfe

      SC that is one long thread

    • http://?? Joe H.

      sc,
      i agree with you 100%. What’s the difference in this or the many “hits” the government put out on Castro?? to say this is something new is not completely true. Let’s face it, this is nothing new to the US government! I also wish Bob would have clarified the statement with “United States Government” as I’m sure not all Americans approved of the killing. This is not a diss on Bob, by the way, I agree with him as well!

      • http://?? Joe H.

        sorry, guess I should have looked a little closer. Please insert Chip for Bob. Thanks!

    • John

      The best Government 1s the least government. The U.S. government is war happy. Look at all the wars our country has been engaged in. War is a racket, the biggest promoter of socialism. The government has their own agenda. They are interested in their own protection which they call national security!

    • DaveJ

      In regard to Awlaki only, he was the head of a foreign terrorist organization which are, by their own rules, at war with the United States. The Constitutional protections of a citizen do not apply, the Law of War does, and as a combatant- an unlawful combatant at that- he is a legitimate target.

blog comments powered by Disqus
Bottom